open-beta-discussion

[lime yarrow]

luckily I do have a backup

thank you

[minor flax]

However yeah, the boolean issue does not have a workaround as of now, all you can do is set up individual booleans for each receiver that you want to have behave differently

[lime yarrow]

Is this the standard "close unity, delete sdk, open unity, import sdk" thing?

That's really stupid If I'm being honest

they shouldn't be booleans

they should be able to write to any type of parameter

[minor flax]

Personally I just deleted the folder within Unity and reinstalled it, worked pretty well

[lime yarrow]

otherwise whats the point over floats

[minor flax]

They technically can write to any time of parameter, but they always send one or 0 now, and in debug mode they show up as booleans. Only exception is proximity ones which are left unchanged

I had to set up 18 booleans because of this

Or rather 20 since I needed 2 others for another system

[lime yarrow]

It really doesn't say anything about this in the patch notes

are you sure it isn't just a bug on your end?

when I originally imported the new SDK it was allowing me to set values

[minor flax]

I'm pretty sure I could see the text referring to it on your SDK screenshot hold on

[lime yarrow]

Yeah it says that in the screenshot

but I assumed that was from when it was only accepting floats

because it used to say that exact thing

but the update doesn't say anything about booleans

let me find it

[minor flax]

It used to only accept floats, now it works on integers and bools, but it also works like a bool, just 0s and 1s

[minor flax]

Just to give an example

[lime yarrow]

an int can be set to 0 or 1

but not 2, 3 4 or whatever

?

[minor flax]

I made this parameter as a float before the update, it only would ever set to 1 since that's all I'd use it for. But now it's a bool in the debug mode even though nothing changed in the animator

it didn't break the function unlike other parameters that got this treatment however

[lime yarrow]

Reinstalling the SDK like you suggested seems to have fixed the upload issue

but this new receiver behavior has me thoroughly vexed

[minor flax]

It bothers me a little bit too but I've already had to fix it so uh

Now I have all of these

And these

[lime yarrow]

I hope they don't keep this behavior

[minor flax]

It's possible that they don't

I'd like to change these bools into one integer if I can

[lime yarrow]

I'd like to be able to set specific values, and multiple per receiver as well

I think this is crucial

[minor flax]

I can see how multiple values could help but I don't know if they'd be crucial, though I do agree specific values would help immensely

[lime yarrow]

IMO it's crucial because of avatar performance stats

[minor flax]

My personal idea for a change would be more along the lines of senders having parameter values they can send

Ah, true

[lime yarrow]

there is a max number of receivers you can use before you become very poor

having multiple values per receiver could cut down receiver count drastically

[minor flax]

That being said, wouldn't that just cause said receivers to simply not sync if exceeded?

Sort of like particle systems, dynamic bones, audio and such?

[lime yarrow]

That's not a thing

[minor flax]

It is, though

[lime yarrow]

Not in my experience

[minor flax]

Hold on, lemme give you an example from VRC's docs

Or rather the source

[lime yarrow]

And besides, it's about the performance stats themselves

[minor flax]

https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/avatar-performance-ranking-system

From this page

[lime yarrow]

oh that's what you meant

that only applies if people have higher performance avatars blocked

but yeah

I get what you're saying

[minor flax]

Right, but that's what the performance ranking is for anyways

[lime yarrow]

Yeah but also people get bitchy about avatars that are very poor

even if they aren't blocking them

But I suppose I see why you don't think it's crucial

[minor flax]

Admittedly this isn't something I have much experience with, whenever I have very poor performance stats, I focus them on the ones that don't matter nearly as much

[lime yarrow]

It's more of a personal thing on my end I suppose

[minor flax]

I can see what you mean, however, I don't think VRChat sets the minimum performance rank to anything other than verypoor at first launch, so it's easy to miss it

[lime yarrow]

Anyway yeah, this SDK version essentially broke several systems in my avatar so now I have some tedious clean up to do

ugh lmao

Thanks for the help though!

[minor flax]

You're welcome, and don't worry, I've had to do the same, though I'm glad that at the very least we're not restricted to just floats, hopefully set values return later on

Maybe they can even add values???

[lime yarrow]

Honestly, they should just behave the same way as parameter driver state behaviors

that would be ideal

[minor flax]

That does sound pretty dope, ye

[lime yarrow]

It would forgo the need to set up layers specifically to drive parameters with the bools or floats or whatever

[minor flax]

I'm sure they will at some point, though, this is still pretty early

[lime yarrow]

I'd hoped they were further along in the features side of this update, considering that it is in open beta and not still in closed alpha/beta

but I don't know how beta testing is supposed to work

[minor flax]

I personally don't mind too much, even if there are inconveniences, the possibilities it opened up made me reconsider ideas I had thrown out for avatar functions, most of them are back on the table now and it's kind of exciting

[lime yarrow]

Fair enough

I just feel like some of these things should have been considered long ago

either way I'll see where they go with it

not much else to do

[minor flax]

Right, good luck with your avatar, though!

[lime yarrow]

Thanks!

[rose stag]

Why did nobody tell me

I didn't know I could get the open beta from my phone

[flat patrol]

With complicated contact mechanic, I feel avatar need to be accompanied with a panel like in the hub. Since it's not just a button in a menu.

[restive charm]

Is it possible to do "player pickup" with the new bones?

[near grove]

PhysBones are intended to be draggable/poseable in the Game tab within Unity, correct? After upgrading the VRCSDK to latest from latest - 1, I stopped being able to, but I haven't ruled out the possibility it's something dopey I did.

[hollow hatch]

its in the instructions for joining it in #open-beta-info

[stable mantle]

The instructions only mention the website (or did).

Though Ive been mentioning the app religiously, as its more reliable (when it works).

[stable mantle]

Huh. I guess I missed that part.

Though they did update it about the Meta opt-ing issue so perhaps that was added too? I dont have a copy of the older message, though. So its not worth fussing over whether it did or not before.

[steady solar]

So when will dynamics and such be fully out?

People keep telling me different things and it's getting confusing

Not sure if this is the right chat 📯

[restive charm]

if there is a beta update it will be at least a week

[hazy linden]

We don't know when it'll be fully live though. There's still issues right now that haven't been resolved.
It could be 2 weeks or 2 months or maybe even longer. Who knows

[steady solar]

Aight thanks

[restive charm]

it will come out when its stable

[rose stag]

I didn't see that it was added

[hollow belfry]

Did they really finally fix the ol' favourites bug?

[shrewd estuary]

yea

[rich blaze]

I can’t join any public worlds after getting the new open beta, is there any way to fix it without getting rid of phys bones?

[formal breach]

no, this beta isn’t network compatible.

[rich blaze]

Tysm

[near grove]

I wonder how much longer till live release

[mortal surge]

Since we got a new update recently (friday), it'll probably be a pinch.

Also do we have a rundown on each tier of limit for physbones? I know the upper one is 128; over that and you're poor. (An edit. Going past 128 puts you into "Poor", not "Very Poor"

However, I was curious as to what the current jump offs are for each perf tier.

Currently in "Good" with 27 transforms.

Which was the medium with dynamic bones.

Okay, a bit of checking and an avatar with 41 hits medium.

Got a feeling 32 might be the upper limit for a "Good" ranking.

79 and still medium.

It's 32 for "good". Wild we've reached a point where the upper limit for dynamic bones before you break into "Poor" ranking is now the good ranking here.

[worn quarry]

https://docs.vrchat.com/v2022.1.2/docs/avatar-performance-ranking-system#pc-limits

[mortal surge]

Sorry, didn't realize that they had updated that.

Redundant question is redundant I guess.

[stable mantle]

I mean, that was kind of the point though. Idea was that these would be: 1) Standalone Compatible, & 2) Highly performant. — Amazing for sure, but the intended effect.

[mortal surge]

I get it, just kinda enjoying the real juxtaposition of the old one versus the new.

It's been a minute since I've looked, since it isn't live compatible.

But since it's been a minute I figured I'd start hammering out the physbone versions of my stuff while the beta is in progress, and hop back in.

[stable mantle]

Testing my avi I was honestly amazed it held up with the cape and ear physics on beta without any reduction in performance. And this was on Standalone.

It really is quite something. Im sure there's diminishing returns in large lobbies, but whatever they're doing is working.

I can't wait for them to tackle world physics.

[mortal surge]

My stuff is mad simple, honestly, as I've already stayed pretty low. I do break medium though. So for me it's been "ah yes, as expected". However, the implications and much more lenient restrictions for colliders/collision checks is where the fun begins.

That and the rest of the "Dynamics", as physbones is but one topping on this lovely Pizza.

[stable mantle]

My avatar has a lot of toggleable objects, so while the base would probably be "poor" (or medium, with some optimization), its ranked due to it accounting for everything the model is capable of, even if some of it is mutually exclusive.

And yet I don't notice anything dropping in performance compared to my fallback, and this is with physbones included.

[sly barn]

do we know when physbones goes public?

[mortal surge]

At the moment no. Since we just got an update, I'd imagine it'd be a bit at least.

But for the moment, it's best to just check it out, maybe prep avatars. If that's not your cake, then just continue as normal. It'll drop when it's ready.

I wouldn't stress it, myself.

[sly barn]

ok

[lime yarrow]

Contacts are written as cloth in the SDK stats warnings

https://vrchat.canny.io/open-beta/p/1186-contacts-indicated-as-cloth-in-build-window

[timber jewel]

not just in the SDK but also ingame

[lime yarrow]

Huh, strange lol

[humble galleon]

I would bet that the contact collision system is pulled from something similar to PhysX cloth/fog volume interaction code.

So it kinda makes sense that "cloth" still exists as a string in places.

[timber jewel]

yeah no that doesn't make any sense xD

[humble galleon]

Recycled code is a thing.

[stable mantle]

I can almost guarantee you that PhysBones has nothing to do with PhysX unless VRChat pulled some magic out of their rears.

PhysX is CPU bound on Android according to Unity 2019.4 documentation, and even something like simple pool table physics sends VRChat into a screeching halt if there's too much going on, on Standalone. The Quest line is both CPU throttled & CPU bottlenecked.

PhysBones meanwhile appear to face no performance detriments even whilst being moderate to heavy in use, on Standalone. This wouldn't be possible, realistically, without GPU physics, which as far as I can tell, is not available on Android, the OS Quest is based on, according to Unity documentation.

IMHO without any internal knowledge to go off, I'd say VRChat is using some kind of compute shader or other custom GPU instructions to power Avatar Dynamics.

[dapper scroll]

Is anyone on oculus having trouble getting out of beta?

[stable mantle]

#open-beta-info

[stable mantle]

https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/quest-provide-advanced-channel-switching-instructions

[dapper scroll]

I can’t use ‘Canny’

My account isn’t permitted

[stable mantle]

#open-beta-discussion message

TL;DR there's a bug that prevents the Quest from detecting build channel changes, so you gotta leave it uninstalled a bit and periodically check the store until it shows the right version number.

#open-beta-info notated the bug but not advanced installation steps.

[ashen yarrow]

I'm stuck in beta some one please help

[stable mantle]

Quest?

[ashen yarrow]

Yes I have left beta before but this time my quest refuses to install the base game. I uninstalled it like last time but when I switched out of beta and tried to reinstall it my quest just gives me the install failed notification.

[stable mantle]

Read the post and link literally above your post.

[ashen yarrow]

It matches

Still won't install

[stable mantle]

What happens when you click install?

[ashen yarrow]

Starts installing

When it finishes it does nothing and says install failed

[stable mantle]

https://support.oculus.com/articles/contact-us/contact-us/index-contact-us

No one here can help with that. That's a Quest OS/Meta server issue.

Contact them.

[left plaza]

i dont know if its a rare bug or what, but i cant favorite some avatars for some reason.

Had a reglus avatar that i was trying to favorite, but i couldn't, i have no idea why.

Current favorite spaces: 22/25.

[warm cedar]

there goes the "favourite avatars bug fixes"

welp, we can't say the team didn't try

[rose stag]

Just tested open beta on quest

It was amazing

[sour epoch]

were you on the open beta?

[near grove]

Hey anyone have a problem with not being able to join public worlds

[quaint geode]

The current PhysBones OpenBeta is not Network Compatible, so you will not be able to see players on live while on the beta client, and vice versa

you'll only see other players that are also using the PhysBones OpenBeta client

[patent estuary]

I swear I met you today, were you talking about how you couldn’t delete the no game or someyhing

And then someone called terraz or coal69 said for you to go away

[stable mantle]

Im convinced its a server side bug, or an "old UI" bug, because lists in general have been utterly broken on Standalone, to say none the least, for ages.

I still can't see the full search results as of 1184. Or the full list of worlds in a playlist. Or all my avatars without repeatedly yanking the UI to almost seemingly "pull to refresh". And sometimes unfavoriting avatars wont work and instead add a second copy to my favorites.

It seems the whole way they handle favorites lists is subpar. — Granted I havent tested the latest build, but I don't see how they could fix one favorites list bug and not the rest. My gut says they're connected somehow.

[warm cedar]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

I don't work on the game, they'll figure it out someday

[hybrid niche]

Does the beta have a release date i can view?

Or is that not a thing

[inner creek]

Usually when a patch is released they will list it as a release candidate for live. No concrete date yet.

[shrewd estuary]

no

[molten cobalt]

open betas never have release dates

[coral mango]

Anyone else uploaded some avatars with the beta sdk with physbones and not have it work?

[stable mantle]

You're using the beta client as well, to clarify?

[coral mango]

Yes, I have 1 avatar I’ve uploaded work but not others

Or sometimes in Unity it won’t let me upload them either

[stable mantle]

For new avatars the latest SDK has a bug that prevents upload without an existing blueprint ID.
For old avatars, reimporting the SDK clean (Deleting the VRCSDK folder from Assets then importing the SDK package) sometimes works.

[coral mango]

Honestly weird, I just uploaded one brand new with the beta sdk and it worked but not avatars I’d already made

[stable mantle]

Interesting

[wraith island]

Pls upvote https://feedback.vrchat.com/sdk-bug-reports/p/sdk-scripting-define

If this scripting define gets removed it'll break lots of community scripts

[coral mango]

I think I figured some of it out, depending it doesn’t fix the dynamic bones so I have to reset them up

[left plaza]

nope.

[sour epoch]

This is a known issue on live but the open beta should fix it

[left plaza]

hmm, might try it then

[sour epoch]

However open beta is not live compatible so you won't be able to see your friends while in it

But it's certainly worth trying to make sure it fixes your issue

[left plaza]

i know, got a public nardodragon from a friend with physbones that i wanted to try anyways

[left plaza]

mhm

Didnt check the beta, so call me out on this one if you want to

[worn crater]

Upvoted. I really hope the define never gets removed. Whoever made that decision should really rethink about the bigger impact.

[left plaza]

but i really wanna have a toggle-able setting to where you cant use your pose bones ( whatever their named ) but they can use your colliders, so its like normal pc dynamics

[humble galleon]

"SIMILAR to PhysX cloth/fog volume interaction code", didnt say that code specifically. There are other physics packages out there, thats just the first that came to mind.

[stone rapids]

Hey everyone! I made a FREE keyboard asset that can be added to any avatar using the new Avatar Dynamics system! No custom shaders, Quest compatible, no OSC, and all native! Here is a video tutorial with a download link, it is pretty easy to implement! https://youtu.be/fTAThKT_iSE Hope you all enjoy it!

[dense merlin]

I saw in a vid before I think but now idea how it was done. Where the user was able to make speech bubbles appear above their head to communicate

[rough ingot]

anyone experiencing EXTREME lag and low FPS after having the game open on the open-beta for a long time? ever since the latest open beta update i and others have been getting extremely low FPS 1-5 after spending a while in the game 10+ hours ususally. some kind of memory leak?

[final ferry]

Do you have any third party add-ons. Try removing that

[lime yarrow]

Already fixed, but thanks!

I just had to reinstall the SDK

[twin rapids]

Anyone got a idea of when the physbone update should be out of open beta?

[fallow rock]

When it’s ready. No timeframe has been given

[twin rapids]

Gotcha

Just wondering.

[tender dome]

https://twitter.com/i/status/1510803283123838983

Sippbox (@Sippbox)

avatar dynamics shotgun. that is all. (i am bad at particles) #VRChat #AvatarDynamics #TF2

▶ Play video

Twitter · Apr 4, 2022, 2:15 AM

[near grove]

i stuck in beta

[vestal void]

um how do i fix a problem when i upload or try to upload it wont alow me to upload but intead it always multiply the preferb. and how do i fix it ?

[vestal void]

go to your app go back to live and delete vrc the re install

[devout iron]

I think they don't know how to do that

I meant me

[vestal void]

oh ok killer can u help me

u ok

[devout iron]

No just idk what to do

[vestal void]

? its ok sorry

im going to avatar help

[mental marsh]

E

[vestal void]

?

[mental marsh]

Just E

[vestal void]

ok

[bright arch]

today when i went into the open beta, i was not able to see myself in the mirror. i even uninstalled and reinstalled the game, but whenever i try to look in the mirror i only see others and not myself? idk where to actually send this, sorry if this is the wrong chat. then theres times where i CAN see my avatar but it only blinks? if that makes sense.

[stable mantle]

Is it just in one world or everywhere?

[glass cloud]

do u have like a big avatar

ive noticed that when i use big avatars i cant see myself

[winged scarab]

Yea, that happens with big avatars

[bright arch]

no its in every world

[bright arch]

and no they are normal sized avatars

and im not able to see any of my avatars in the mirrors

[glass cloud]

oh

i dont have a clue then

sorry

[bright arch]

yea me either LMAO

[glass cloud]

lmao

[lethal arch]

Is anyone else experiencing bones breaking when adding the physibones? I uploaded the Neo’s TigerBee on both pcvr and quest and the bones don’t work. And effect things that aren’t dynamic such as the facial expressions etc..

[lethal arch]

When was the last time you cleared your cache? I have to do so every few weeks or I get really really bad drift. Try doing that first.

[small surge]

Closest i had if you put physbone on a humanoid bone, it does not like that , locked my head in place

[stable wagon]

that is not bad at all. i like it 🙂

[stone rapids]

That is a thing, however it requires OSC and a third party program. My solution is 100% native. Easy implementation into your avatar

[wintry heath]

Hey so I'm editing an avatar and fsr when I load it in game the left breast the right hair that I haven't touched and leash aren't grabable, any clues on what it could be? When I turn on view physbones I see three purple balls attached to them but only in my home world, I've checked other worlds and I still cant grab them but the purple balls dont appear

They were grabable before idk what happened

[wintry notch]

You might want to increase the collision radius on the physbone

[wintry heath]

Ill give it a go, what value do you reckon I should put it to?

Cuz it's at 0.0002 which all my physbones are on and the rest work fine its just these three

Cuz the breasts are both exactly the same I just cant grab the left fsr

[dense merlin]

so this keyboard puts text down that people can read?

[near grove]

Yeah it happened to my my spleen broke

[stone rapids]

Currently it shows 1 letter at a time, but yes! I am in the process of making it where it can type out full words. Will take a while since it will require a few hundred animations.

[dense merlin]

oh damn xD

[wintry heath]

Fixed my issue

[keen lantern]

ive tried 4 times now to upload an avatar on the most recent open beta sdk and each time it always tells me "error saving blueprint" ive tried to reimport the sdk and yet it changes nothing. anyone else having this issue?

[floral flint]

https://vrchat.canny.io/open-beta/p/1186cant-upload-new-avatars

[keen lantern]

lovely

do i just use the previous one then?

[floral flint]

Any new ID will upload for the moment

[keen lantern]

its not been popping up in game for me so far

aswell as not being in the content manager either

[mossy python]

Does anyone have the performance rankings of phys bones

[small surge]

https://docs.vrchat.com/v2022.1.2/docs/avatar-performance-ranking-system scroll down

[night crow]

i got the wiggles in vr.. but at what cost?

[warm cedar]

Depending on the amount, either all your frames, or nothing

[night crow]

my friends that arent in open beta are gone T^T

[warm cedar]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[wet scarab]

I need some help if someone could point me in the right directionnnnn

I tried the whole beta version of VRC on quest. Unfortunately, when I tried to switch back, my quest won't install the game.

See I uninstalled, switch back to the normal version, restarted my quest, and tried to reinstall the correct version. It goes through the whole process of saying it's downloading/installing, but then doesn't actually install.

Aaaanyways, no pressure if you have no idea. Just thought I might as well try to reach out

[warm cedar]

Thank you for uploading the half life avatars, shitposting would have been impossible without them. 🍪

[warm cedar]

This is a meta issue, if it has to do with the storefront of meta, and downloading the game: there's nothing the team can do for you

[wet scarab]

Thaaank you 😔

[warm cedar]

I'd recommend checking any support meta has for its users, but I'm a steamVR user so I can't help you with any of that

[wet scarab]

Okayyyy, no worries. Even just that is helpful

[floral flint]

Step 1: Visit https://www.oculus.com/experiences/quest/1856672347794301. Make sure you're logged into the account that you're using on Quest.
Scroll down to the details section and look for "Version". Make sure it's set to LIVE
Step 2: Uninstall VRChat from your quest. Settings => Storage
Step 3: Install VRChat on device from the quest store as if you were a new user. It should download LIVE now that it's been set properly

[wet scarab]

It almost worked, it says it's on the live version on my PC. The installation still isn't going through. Other things are able to download just not vrc

[mossy python]

Got a bit of an issue with the PhysBones, any idea what causes this?

[near grove]

on your right controller re-center your view

[drifting depot]

Anyone know how to fix the problem where you assign the phys bones and everything and then it just doesn't show up and work in game? I'm using the latest SDK and unity, so it should work, but it isn't... Gizmos are on too and everything. It just Does NOT work with the hair bones only, for some reason

[wintry notch]

Is there a way you can make your avatar spawn an object that is grabbable by others?

[wheat fjord]

Yeah that wouldn't be a bad idea

[stable mantle]

It'd reduce the "i cant see anyone in public lobbies" and "I cant go back to live" complaints for sure.

[wheat fjord]

yep

[wheat fjord]

I kinda think they're trying to make sure the bugs people will be super pissed about are out of the way first

I'm sure there's a few I'm unaware of

I have checked the canny, the few I want to be added are not totally game breaking

[hazy linden]

The issue I see with that approach to the AD beta is the Ik beta. The plan was to get avatar dynamics to live then update the ik beta afterwards to keep it compatible.
The IK beta is supposed to be long term and tested for a while. Having both the AD beta and IK beta be "long-term" seems confusing and like extra un-necessary work

[stable mantle]

Honestly the IK beta could've been held off a bit to focus on AD, as Id argue AD has better "returns" for users and creators in the long-run.

IK should've been a more "late-stage AD beta" release.

[raw forge]

The AD beta isn't long-term, it's whenever it's ready. It could be released this week nobody can tell until it does

[hazy linden]

I know it isnt

I was responding to another person who responded to a person who had the idea to make the AD beta long term

[raw forge]

Ah I see

[stable mantle]

If you mean me it wasn't an "idea to make the beta long term". It was a hypothesis that the AD beta might stay open after AD is released, in order to address additional complaints and missing features from the DynaBone crowd, whilst having the core features of AD out the door so that the IK beta could be updated to work with it.

Seeing as recent updates removed features from Avatar Dynamics, in order to provide better interoperability.

[hazy linden]

Did the updates remove anything? The only thing "removed" was the ability for contacts to send a specific value over a float. But that is seemingly a bug with the update

And I guess I can see how it's just a hypothesis. I assumed it was just an idea since they've never done it before for a beta

[thorny flower]

So im confused, im using the new SDK and what not but every time I try uploading the avatar now it says error with blueprint, in which each time I always delete the blueprint bc thats how ur supposed to fix that but for some reason it still won't upload and its rlly annoying me :/

[small surge]

You must upload to an already exisiting blueprint id from a older sdk https://vrchat.canny.io/open-beta/p/1186cant-upload-new-avatars

[sterile briar]

finally found out how to use open beta on quest

[thorny flower]

So basically I just upload it normally and then switch the sdk in the project and update the avatar to physbones?

[small surge]

I would just upload a gameobject with an animator+descriptor from a older project/sdk, use that blueprint id on the open beta sdk upload

[outer python]

Anyone want to place bets on how long it will be until someone asks when dynamics will go live 😆

[scenic phoenix]

Here’s the dumb thing since I make a lot of Reddit posts about the physbones people always ask me either in Reddit or in game when they will be out

So in game i would always say the update will come out when it wants to come out

[winter dragon]

[small surge]

You can still use the open beta sdk on live, they will appear and work but bones will obviously only move if they have dynbones (and not on open beta but live/ik2 beta) , have another version of avatar with physbone whenever that out if can just overwrite it

[lethal arch]

I’m not sure if I should be concerned for your health, or if that was a typo..

[vivid hatch]

working on porting my keyboard to quest:

[shrewd estuary]

this is great!
quick question, will it be desktop compatible as well?

figured i'd ask since i have a few desktop mute friends that would enjoy something like this.

[small surge]

Would require it to be stationary / constrained, quest cannot, you can make arm point to poke the buttons but that sounds like it would be a really slow typing with contact, doubt it can detect keyboard (onkey down , worlds can)

[shrewd estuary]

yep

[vivid hatch]

not yet but i have plan on working on a desktop version that should be fast enough to use

[shrewd estuary]

another quick question: will it be an available prefab?

[narrow mist]

I wood love a prefab of this. my wife is mute.

[stone rapids]

Ayyyy! Another keyboard creator!

[shrewd estuary]

well you know what they say

the more the merrier

[stone rapids]

The one I have is out as a prefab!

@shrewd estuary @narrow mist https://youtu.be/fTAThKT_iSE

[shrewd estuary]

[narrow mist]

Thanks

[south lily]

how to get out of beta because im stuck on it

[slim crag]

switch out your beta to live, then unistall and re-install

[south lily]

i did but i Could't reinstall it back

[spark shadow]

anyone else having audio issues with the beta? the audio sound as if they are in my left ear when they are in my right.

[rotund scarab]

i couldnt either so my next option was to factory reset because i didnt know what else to do

[hazy linden]

It's probably the same as bug as this. It's been a thing since the first AD beta and it's still seemingly unfixed https://vrchat.canny.io/open-beta/p/1181-player-voices-spontaneously-come-from-unexpected-areas-when-playing-for-a-w

[stable mantle]

Anybody having issues with visemes? My avatar's Ee and Ou states are not firing with the current SDK. The blendshapes work in blender, but both in game and in Luma AV3, U and E sounds have a shut mouth, as if the blendshape isn't applied. And I really don't want to have to make a custom viseme controller. :(

[stable mantle]

Then contact Meta. Search Oculus Customer Support

[stable mantle]

I've ruled out it being the model or animation — The visemes v_ou and v_e work fine in a custom animation.

It's like the SDK is just... leaving them out.

Anybody with viseme-based mouth animations noticing this too?

[mortal plume]

and they are in your avatar descriptor, yes?

[stable mantle]

Yup. Ive tripple checked, re-exported the avatar multiple times, tripple checked in blender, etc.

[mortal plume]

try resetting your Playable layers section to rule out the possibility of any animation accidentally animating one of those shape keys. typically, animating a single viseme shape key causes the entirety of lipsync to break, but maybe it's different now.

[stable mantle]

Only thing that changed was I reordered the blendshapes in the mesh via blender, since they were all mixed up. But ive quadruple confirmed that they are correct and reflecting the updated order in the VRC Avatar Descriptor.

[mortal plume]

and also make sure that you don't leave an Animation controller in your avatar's Animator when uploading

[stable mantle]

I have a separate prefab variant just so this don't happen.

Well

Resetting playable layers worked.

But none of my layers should be animating visemes.

And none of the animations have changed, functionally, since last working upload.

All I did was add an a new blendshape to toggle off my glasses.

[mortal plume]

can you show me how your playable layers section looks like before you reset them?

[stable mantle]

Deleting any one individual layer doesn't fix it either.

Even deleting and readding the controllers doesn't fix it.

I do know the LIVE SDK has an issue where this section will be functionally damaged unless you replace the avatar descriptor — More than once has half the layers been replaced with "Action" (that is to say the layer parameters themselves, not what they were set to).

Ima try that. Maybe this is just a "reinvention" of that bug.

Nope That didn't work.

@mortal plume I dunno whats going on but recreating the avatar descriptor then deleting my Action layer fixes it.

...but nothing on the action layer messes with visemes AFAIK.

[mortal plume]

interesting

have you modified your action controller at all?

[pliant copper]

How do I use the open beta program features or does it just give me access to them automatically

[stable mantle]

#open-beta-info walks you through step by step.

[mortal plume]

all you do is switch to the open beta branch, wait for the game to update, and play. note that it is NOT compatible with the live version

meaning you won't see anyone else in worlds unless they are also on open beta

[stable mantle]

Barely. I just added a dance animation, which does animate the mouth, but it doesn't fire unless selected, and the idle state does nothing.

And it was working well before now. The only change I made was adding an optional exit time for that dance animation (since before it'd just hang until I toggled it off).

Not to mention the goal weight of the Action layer is 0 until an animation is played.

So nothing in that layer should be firing on init.

[mortal plume]

make sure that none of your animations even touch any of the blendshapes used for the VRC lipsync

if you need to use them, make duplicate blendshapes in Blender and use those in your animations

[stable mantle]

Curious, but why would it work before, if I did?

[mortal plume]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[stable mantle]

Like, ive uploaded a fully functional model with both Live & this version SDK so IDK why itd suddenly break.

Well, it does use viseme animations in the lipsyncing for the dance.

And it is the exact ones that broke.

But why it chose now to break is beyond me.

[mortal plume]

it never should have worked in the first place

no idea why it did

[stable mantle]

I mean, its not animating until the dance plays, and the action layer is weighted to 0, so by unity standards it should work.

Today is the first ive heard you mustn't even touch them in situations where it should, by Unity logic, be safe.

Well, it fixed it.

Ill scan over animations I acquire in the future, and make sure to account for this strange behavior of VRChat.

Thanks @mortal plume for the information.

Its so weird it worked for a couple months like that, through multiple iterations, and a complete Avatar rebuld.

[stable mantle]

—
Okay so now I have different animator shenanigans.

After fixing my animation layers and tweaking the animations, now my avatar is just in a constant state of "unknown" for every layer in the debug panel, and my model periodically "glitches" every few seconds.

Again, something that was working up until a few tweaks done with the beta SDK

[short jasper]

Documentation forsakes me

[stable mantle]

Anyone else know how to fix physics not playing in play mode?

In general this current SDK has borked my avatar in so many ways I regret updating.

Kinda wish I used the OG AviDyn SDK I was on.

[stable mantle]

Ok

Going to the previous version SDK didnt fix it either

I for whatever reason can no longer test physbones in the editor

And reinstalling the SDK removed every single parameter driver in my already highly complex set of animation layers.

RIP sleep

Oh more than that

Reimporting the SDK removed every single VRC related feature from my animator controllers.

[fallow rock]

did you remove the sdk while unity was closed?

[stable mantle]

No. But when I tried importing the SDK Unity had a fatal error and exited.

Some sort of memory corruption with a file.

[fallow rock]

That's brutal, to Unity it's the same thing. Had no sdk when it was closed and opened again. Sorry that happened.

[stable mantle]

Luckily a project with a similar avatar is on my drive so I can mostly rework it, but the Action layer is going to be a grade A [expletive] to fix.

As is the FX layer.

I want to vom now. I have no idea whats even missing.

My avatar is practically destroyed, functionally.

You can't even copy paste script settings in states jeses

[fallow rock]

No, but you can make presets

closest thing to copy paste

[stable mantle]

This is going to take forever though and requires multiple menus and a save dialog.

[timber jewel]

The documentation has not been updated since the first beta, so yeah it's kinda out of date

[timber jewel]

One reason why I use Git / GitHub for my Unity projects, I can always revert changes back and can use different branches for updates. I have a Main and an AD branch, since AD is in beta I'm currently using that one with all the changes related to AD, once AD is out of beta, I'll merge it in to Main.

[stable mantle]

Unity supports GIT?

[timber jewel]

Yeah kinda

I just use my Unity Project folder with GIT

works really well

[stable mantle]

oh

That's... annoying

[timber jewel]

nah

not really

It works really well actually

[stable mantle]

I just mean on Mac GIT entails a lot of terminal commands unless you wanna upload to github or use XCode

Unless the GitHub client work with offline projects? (Local GIT)

[timber jewel]

A friend of mine just uses Git it self for his projects

I also wanted a cloud backup which is why I also use GitHub and not just Git

[timber jewel]

I think you always need a project in the cloud, not 100% sure though

(at least with GitHub)

[stable mantle]

Yeah for me thatd be highly inconvenient and id be liable to break things worse working with terminal commands that much. If Unity had a built in Git server, like XCode, that'd be a whole different story though.

I guess I could make my whole project folder an XCWorkspace then use GIT on that...

A bit roundabout.

[timber jewel]

That could also work

Btw I never had any issues from reverting changes or merging branches together

Have been using sind 5 Months or so? not sure

I also use it for my world

[stable mantle]

Oh if you use it right thats for sure

I just meant I am a clumbsy thing and will in a blind panic after something goes wrong inevitably type the wrong command if I don't use a GUI.

I have done this already more than once.

Including with Git.

[timber jewel]

ooof xD

Thankfully I only use a GUI for GitHub

[stable mantle]

Having a GUI that actually turns nonsensical commands into sensical tasks helps a ton.

[timber jewel]

my friend swears by terminal commands for Git xD

he really dosen't wanna use a GUI for it

(which I btw really don't understand)

for some stuff the terminal is nice, but for something like Git? no thanks xD

[stable mantle]

mood

A lot of *nix commands make no sense the way they're named, unless you understand their origins &/or technological underpinnings?

And in general Git is a complex system with a bunch of moving parts.

Being able to click to revert is a godsend.

[timber jewel]

Idk he is an Arch user so that's probably why he prefers to use the terminal xD

[stable mantle]

Aaaaaaa Linux. How could I have known they use that.

[timber jewel]

xD

[stable mantle]

Well at least with MacOS It's a *Nix system. I know this! So I have all the terminal goodness if I so choose.

Looks like I need to use terminal to set the git up, but then can use XCode from there to track it.

[timber jewel]

Sounds good ^^

[stable mantle]

Thanks for the idea. It seems to work nicely with XCode that way, once set up. :)

[timber jewel]

Nice ^^

[stable mantle]

Though, even after fixing my animation controllers, im back to my original problem: The physbones no longer work in the editor in play mode

In fact, when I switch to the editor view, its almost as if they were removed at runtime. Colliders show up. Bones do not.

[timber jewel]

weird

[stable mantle]

I know some people had issues with PhysBones not being grabbable in the editor, but for me its as if they straight up aren't working.

[timber jewel]

do you use Lyuma?

[stable mantle]

On and off. It doesn't work in both cases.

[timber jewel]

so no wiggle etc when you move your Avatar around?

[stable mantle]

None whatsoever.

Bones are there. Configured.

But nothing happens in play mode, despite the "Do Not Destroy" object that controls them being loaded.

[timber jewel]

wtf

what happens if you remove your FX, Action, etc. layers from the Avatar?

[stable mantle]

That's what started this whole mess. I was loading an older SDK because the new one broke my visemes (albeit apparently something that worked shouldn't have.) and bones magically stopped working. Then my latest upload, fixing the former caused my avatar to glitch every few seconds and for all my animator layers to show as [UNKNOWN] in game.

[stable mantle]

Ill try...

[stable mantle]

Uh... they work

For some reason.

God I shouldve just stayed with the first SDK. It worked.

[timber jewel]

then one of your Animations remove / breaks them

[stable mantle]

No?

Like none of my animators even remotely touch physbones.

And all my animations are identical to when physbones were working,

[timber jewel]

But you said that when you remove your FX layer etc the bones work?

[timber jewel]

Or did I missunderstood that messege?

[stable mantle]

Yea. But previously, with all the same animations and (roughly) same controllers, they worked in the earlier version of the SDK.

Ive only had issues with newer AviDyn/PhysBone SDKs.

Same with visemes. One of my dance animations on the Action layer used the viseme blendshapes to lip sync. Worked on Live SDK since January, and all the way through the first PhysBone SDK.

Latest SDK? Broke the viseme for every one called in that emote, even if the emote never played and Action was blended to 0.

It's like nothing model wise has changed in any fundamental way.

All I did was add a blendshape for my glasses size. Thats it.

And it all started falling apart after that in the newest SDK build.

[stable mantle]

I think I figured out the issue, but it was supposed to have been fixed. My custom animators don't include an exhaustive list of every possible bone and contact parameter. But this causes Avatar Dynamics to throw errors in the editor because its trying to find parameters that dont exist.

[timber jewel]

hm I'm running a bit out of ideas tbh

[stable mantle]

Im not sure why Im having a supposedly fixed issue but eh. Its beta, yea?

[timber jewel]

That souldn't create any problems, at least for me it doesn't

[stable mantle]

Its the only error appearing in my console related to avatar dynamics.

[timber jewel]

Can you show me the error?

[timber jewel]

Yeah those are just warnings

not errors

you can basically ignore those

[stable mantle]

Yeah. But it doesnt matter which animation controller I remove.

Bones wont animate unless im using 100% stock controllers.

(In editor)

Well

[timber jewel]

Weird

[stable mantle]

I take that back

Removing just the locomotion controller exhibits the same issue.

I have to have no controllers (except special) for it to fire bones in editor.

[timber jewel]

Anyway my Phone has 3% battery left, so yeah I hope you can find a solution xD

[stable mantle]

RIP me

Weird

The PC prefab variant which is identical save for the audio sources works.

what

It's literally a prefab var OF the main avatar.

Yet the PC one works on play.

LMAO it is removing physbones in play mode on any avatars marked as active at play time.

Anything marked as inactive then made active stays in tact.

Except when the avatar has no custom animators. Then it just works ™️.

I have no idea whats going on but Im starting to think the SDK broke my project.

[stable mantle]

These are present only in play mode, and some of them float past the avatar. I feel figuring these out might solve my issue.

(The red things)

Physbones are blue and colliders green, so I have 0 guesses.

[timber jewel]

I also have those red things, idk why they are there though

[fallow rock]

"The Red Spheres are the IK goals", "They are mainly used to fix foot sliding issue when you retarget a motion with different proportions, they are basically the original position/rotation of the feet and hand from the imported clip."

https://forum.unity.com/threads/humanoid-rig-red-and-blue-spheres.503199/

[stable mantle]

I have been up since yesterday and have spent an entire night staring at Unity animator layers.

In laymens terms, why do physbones SDK cause them in play mode.

[fallow rock]

They're a unity thing with humanoid rigs

nothing to do with the vrcsdk

[stable mantle]

They only showed up with Physbones

They were never there before

So something about the SDK toggled a switch or something.

[fallow rock]

This is a current project of mine with latest Live sdk

they've always been there

[stable mantle]

Yea no i never had them.

I only had one.

At the base of the avatar.

After the latest SDK I have more of them.

[fallow rock]

You need to be running an animation when simulating

[stable mantle]

So I guess it coincided with me using Luma then.

Ok.
—
I still can't solve my "physbones wont play on the active avatar" issue btw. — I don't even know where to begin diagnosing such an issue. It's almost like an initialization failure at playtime, but showing another model with bones after play has began initializes fine.

[fallow rock]

Yeah the emulator throws you into default Locomotion. Disable the Emulator object and remove any controllers from the Animator and the spheres go back to world 0

[stable mantle]

That makes sense

[timber jewel]

ahhhh that's why I have them now too, makes sense

[proven shell]

I don't think this is just a problem with open beta but recently any map with ltcgi in it hard crashes my game, and only in VR.

I've updated drivers reinstalled games you name it.

That and when I check output logs the last thing it mentions is a UdonVM error.

[tired tartan]

Do you guys think they are near full release?

[last viper]

No, at least I don't think so if I look at the canny

[devout sapphire]

i hope not, we need more control of Inertia

[fallow rock]

Fax

Though implementing that is a colossal change to the system. If it's even close to what we had/have with DynBo, then I'm all for them taking their time.

[small surge]

If they would release now, it would be flooded with upload issues when they arent using an older exsisting blueprint

[shrewd estuary]

yeah

[sand vale]

Is there a way to have physbones collide with standard colliders (like the chest, torso, head, etc) or do I have to make my own colliders there?

[small surge]

Dont think so , would save me from making them

rarely use them only have a plane on my back to avoid hair clip

[sand vale]

Is there a way to change the size of a plane collider, or is it just, like, infinitely big?

[inner creek]

Infinitely big

[keen lantern]

i have a question, does the auto ingame phys bone conversion account for colliders? like at all?

[timber jewel]

yeah of course lol

[keen lantern]

hm..

i was just getting around to testing out old dynamic bone avatars and it doesnt seem to do so at all

all my avatars with ties, one dynamic bone component, one collider and thats it. i shared the same setup amongst a few avatars and between all of them the tie goes straight through no matter what, as if the collider isnt even there.

they all used to be medium because of that, and its one of the avatars i had some hopes for a better rank cause of physbones, which atleast they are better now.

im just confused why this is happening.

[stable mantle]

Now that it's day time, anyone have an idea why PhysBones won't play on an active model in play mode, but activating a different model while in play mode will let that one's bones work, even though they're the same prefab?

[wicked coral]

like in unity using Lyuma?

[stable mantle]

Both using Lyuma and not using Lyuma.

That is, whatever model is "active" in the scene at play time, whether Lyuma is installed or not, does not register its physbones with the SDK's physbone emulation.

A duplicate of the model in the same scene marked as inactive can, however, be activated after play mode has been entered. The physbones will play fine.

It does not matter which copy is active and which is inactive. Both will play just fine if activated after playmode has begun.

With Lyuma, activating a model, then subsequently restarting the Lyuma emulator, disables physbone emulation for any model in the scene that is active.

Removing all Animator Controllers from a model fixes this behavior. It does not matter what nor which animator controllers are set — Outside of "Special" controllers (IK, T, Seated), having any controller set to anything causes this issue to occur.

[vivid hatch]

make sure they have a radius > 0

[keen lantern]

the radius is 0.125, atleast for the most recently uploaded one

[shrewd estuary]

do you have a video of this keyboard in action, like it being typed on? considering adding it to my avatar.

[shrewd estuary]

found an answer, thanks for the message! this is good enough for me

excited for when you make it so that it can type full words

[stone rapids]

I hope you like it! Full words are in progress! Just lots of animations to make!

[shrewd estuary]

lol, id imagine itd be a TON of animations

but other than that, any demonstration of it in-game?

[shrewd estuary]

https://youtu.be/HdZxvfwO8CU

i think i found it

[lunar hollow]

It’s not really a question ,, more of me wondering but..when I went onto beta , every time I would join a public world ain’t nobody would b there? Even if it says that like 9 or 10 people is in there , when I join ain’t nobody there🙁

[shrewd estuary]

open beta isn't network compatible

you can't see people on the live branch and they can't see you

[sand vale]

Imported a new version of a model, and noticed that on the new one the physbone collider's values are way bigger than they should be. Anyone know what the cause might be?
This makes trying to adjust the positions of colliders especially annoying since it's very sensitive

Ah, apparently the armature's scale is all weird? The scale's at 100 instead of just 1... I suppose that's why lol

[pallid rock]

Haven't popped around for a few weeks/updates now. How's everything going? Dumpster fire or does this seem like an awesome new feature?

And oh hey, SpiritedSpy is here.

[warped bridge]

Are there any good worlds for quest users to see how this open beta works besides the one that has vrchat on it

[ruby harbor]

Question

How apply physbones

[warped bridge]

And do we have any idea as to when this will become an actual update and not the beta?

[molten cobalt]

basically there are none as folks aren't going to be releasing public avatars & worlds till it released

[molten cobalt]

no release dates at the moment

[warped bridge]

Ahh well that sucks

[molten cobalt]

vrchat betas never have release dates

[warm junco]

Well that’s for the team to think over which I’m saying the worlds are amazing but idk the release date it takes time so we need be patient

[stable mantle]

Unity's armature scaling is weird. If I dont match the export settings identically or even slightly change the model in blender, Unity will outright destroy it. :(

[knotty gulch]

is anyone else having consistent Error Saving Blueprint?

[hollow hatch]

Unless something has changed, you cannot upload to a new ID, you can only "update" previous avatars, if you are using the latest Beta SDK

[knotty gulch]

ah gotcha, thank you

[hollow hatch]

It's a known bug that is taking them a little too long to fix, but that's beta's for you

You can always create a new project, import the last live SDK release, upload anything as an avatar, then use that ID in the other project for the Beta SDK

[shrewd estuary]

gotta love bugs wooooo

[mighty badger]

do y’all know anyone who has free avis for open beta for quest?

[hallow drift]

I have a few on my world, nothing fancy with contacts, just physbones

[sullen elk]

Oh yeah, AD copying does not work at all

[sick badger]

Question, is there a way to make when a collision in detected with the contact receiver that it adds .1 or 1 a float value? like a damage counter?
Or any other way to make collisions count up to trigger animations after a set number of times?

[hallow drift]

could probably use a parameter driver to add to a param

[mortal plume]

why not use an Int for that? could then use parameter drivers to add +1 to that value

you could use a float too but that has limited precision over the network

[sick badger]

Ah ok, I'm pretty new to the animator in unity and didnt know that vrchat had that behavior
having some issues but I'll move to the animation channel to ask lol

[uneven jacinth]

Might want to check the VRC SDK. The joke jam hammer and some of the built in health system vars are similar to what you want.

[patent tapir]

So I'm working on an avatar I have uploaded previously and now the MB is too high for quest, what's the best way to fix this? (max is 10mb, mine is 10.5 mb)

[scenic phoenix]

You got high res textures?

If so reducing the quality a little bit can help

[patent tapir]

how do I do that? ^^

[scenic phoenix]

I think in substance you can lower the resolution

[small surge]

unity texture crunch, default is 2k

[scenic phoenix]

Thanks that too

[patent tapir]

thank you! ❤️

[scenic phoenix]

The magic number my friends and I use for quest is 1024

It’s between looking good and looking like 💩

I hate discords emoji replacement xd

[proud mesa]

discord's what now :)

[warm cedar]

anyone ever had contacts disappear when they trigger?

[ruby harbor]

..?

[warm cedar]

let me show it

[ruby harbor]

Oh-
I have notifs on and got that out of context lol

Thought you were talking about contact lenses -w-‘

[vivid hatch]

its just a visual bug

[warm cedar]

on constant it works

but promixity breaks? odd

[vivid hatch]

you can clearly see its a visual bug , even other peoples contacts are disapearing

[stable mantle]

Crunch compression is amazing; even at higher sizes it can get something pretty small depending on your filtering and compression quality settings.

[bright jungle]

note that crunch compression doesn't affect VRAM use, it only affects download size

[timber jewel]

sad

[sullen elk]

Change your texture resolution

[muted brook]

8k ftw

[stable mantle]

I mean I have a model that came with an atlased texture that looks like shite under 2048, and Quests tend to struggle more with raw computation and CPU usage, so I don't think a large texture will hurt as much as, say, 200k tris, or enough physbones to create an eldritch ragdoll.

[muted brook]

things that hurt it the most are meshes, blendshapes, and draw calls

[sullen elk]

Just cause something else is bad doesn’t mean you shouldn’t also do your part and take a reasonable amount of VRAM space. Recommended is 1024, but I don’t have a personal issue with 2048

[muted brook]

I prefer a more darwinian approach to optimization

[bright jungle]

2k can be fine ye, but if an avatar looks bad around or above that, it probably has terrible UVs

i.e lots of space not used/wasted on solid colors/repeated areas that could be stacked, etc

[muted brook]

if you atlas its a bit different though

[bright jungle]

not exactly?

[molten cobalt]

could use a rebake if you have a lot of wasted space on your Atlas

[bright jungle]

have done lots of atlassing, a lot of UV space on bases is wasted space lol

[sullen elk]

You guys don’t touch up your atlases by hand or bake them?

[molten cobalt]

a lot of folks just have cats stack squares together and leave it at that

[muted brook]

i personally got an 8k texture because its an atlas of 4 different clothing sets, the body texture, and hair texture

[sullen elk]

Do you need four clothing sets on one avatar

[muted brook]

yes

[molten cobalt]

that's a lot of wasted vram 90% of the time

[muted brook]

its only around 100 mb of vram. so its not too bad

[sullen elk]

Dang, and here I’ve just been uploading separate versions for my clothing.

[molten cobalt]

that is a lot for one Avatar

[muted brook]

dl size is 12 mb

[bright jungle]

plus wasted download space, for stuff you're probably not going to see at all in one instance

unless you're routinely going through every toggle on your avatar, for every instance

[sullen elk]

DL size and VRAM size do not correlate like that

[muted brook]

thats just what i get from vrc and the vram calculator

[molten cobalt]

like crunch compression can make download size go smaller but it doesn't do anything to vram

[bright jungle]

check the Unity profiler with your avatar in play mode, for a good preview of what your avatar takes to render

[sullen elk]

Though if you have that much, your textures must crunch very nicely.

Which means you’d probably be able to reduce those down by a whole bunch in resolution

[bright jungle]

100mb of vram for one avatar is pretty big

keep in mind people have to render other avatars, plus the world

[molten cobalt]

like if every Avatar had that much vram you would run out of vram on all graphics cards before you got to a full instance

[floral flint]

A crunched 4k might sometimes look worse than an uncrunched 2k

[sullen elk]

[floral flint]

It's more about compression format, especially when dealing with gradients

you don't crunch ao/normal maps usually

unless it's packed I guess

[molten cobalt]

and question what method are you using using to toggle your outfits @muted brook as I'm wondering if you could use some detail map Mass to cut down on the resolution of your clothing

[muted brook]

I enable and disable the meshes

Heard that blendshapes were a lot worse for performance

[bright jungle]

it'd be a lot better to use bones

blendshapes on high-poly models is bad yes, but so is having multiple mesh renderers, especially skinned mesh renderers

[molten cobalt]

was just wondering to see if you were stuffing too much in one texture Atlas as far as draw call savings

[muted brook]

maybe

[molten cobalt]

https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/StandardShaderMaterialParameterDetail.html and what I was referring to with the detail Maps

[muted brook]

ah ya no they are separate meshes

[stable mantle]

Isn't that only if they're layered though? E.G. My avatar has a swappable robe and a sweater. The sweater is a switchable mesh, as is the robe, so it only renders one at a time. It's a little worse than a single mesh, yes, but its better than throwing everything into one mesh and rendering everything.

[bright jungle]

depends vv much on the model

[stable mantle]

If im not mistaken the Standard Lite VRC shader doesn't have a detail mask, unless I missed it.

[bright jungle]

with another skinned mesh renderer, you're making another draw call

with one mesh and material, it's still the same draw call, polygons are vv cheap to render

you should still be vv aware of your poly and vertice count though, ofc

[molten cobalt]

I was mostly just thinking of the PC model by that comment as hundred megabytes of VRAM on PC is too much

[muted brook]

id say that 8 gb of vram is average nowadays. so with 40 people that 4 gb of vram.

[stable mantle]

I mean 100MB on a Quest isn't great either, but perhaps with the worlds being more scaled down you can afford more on avatars in that area.

[stable mantle]

Yeah but with blenshapes you're rendering both meshes since they're part of a singular mesh.

If the meshes are complex/unique enough, you might be looking at 2x, 3x the amount of polygons on display at one time.

[bright jungle]

hence why I said it depends vv much on the model lol
also blendshapes on high-poly models are terrible, use bones

it can actually be more performant to split your avatar's face into it's own mesh and use blendshapes on that, for a high poly (>~30k) model

[muted brook]

I should do that. I have to have a pretty high ply face because of facial tracking

[pallid rock]

Quick q. In the open beta, how is the auto-convert button in-game for avatars?

Trying to see if I should hop on the beta and test out a PC avatar that uses dynamics to see if it dies or finally becomes Quest friendly >.>

[bright jungle]

not sure what you mean? the automatic conversion is..automatic lol, DBs are replaced with physbones at runtime, there's an option in the performance menu to disable that

there's also a button to convert DBs into physbones in the SDK

[pallid rock]

I'll try the first bit. I can't do the second bit as it's just a public avatar, and I don't think I can make a commission to them, seeing as how they've been inactive for about 4 years and the avatar uses a SDK from 2018.

.. and I think I just had a stroke when it comes to grammar

[bright jungle]

lmao
If the automatic conversion isn't great, you can always vote on/make a canny about the issue via https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta c:

[pallid rock]

.. I also fear that wouldn't work as they would look at the very first good avatar case of a dynamic bones tail and go "that's a relic we're not touching", but I suppose that has some potential

[bright jungle]

?? wot

the automatic conversion isn't something applied per-avatar individually

it's automatic, hence the name lol

doesn't matter the age of the avatar

[pallid rock]

Sorry, I meant they probably won't look into it due to the avatar requiring a manual update rather than an automatic band-aid

[small surge]

auto convert ingame vrchat isnt good, you really want to tweak it in unity , doubt you have radius correct so its touchable easy, enable debug mode and see

[bright jungle]

It wouldn't, the canny would be about how to improve the auto-convert

but ye, manually tweaking it in Unity would be the best

[small surge]

The one in unity that auto convert adds poseable + animated , not sure everyone would want that + add vrc_leafbones on offset for old dynamic bones

[pallid rock]

Question. So this would mean that the dynamic bones are being automatically turned to phys bones right for my avatar?

[bright jungle]

yup!

if you untick that, it'll revert to dynamic bones

[pallid rock]

Hm. Not sure why it's not quest friendly then, but ah well

[bright jungle]

It'd still need to be uploaded for Quest

just being performant enough wouldn't do it

[small surge]

quest avatars have nothing to convert, need reupload with physbones

[pallid rock]

Ah...

[bright jungle]

and ye, no Quest avatar will have physbones, so there's nothing to convert

[pallid rock]

Well, the 2018 avatar looks nice at least

[arctic flume]

Rip

[shrewd estuary]

hello open beta nation

[warm cedar]

I've done it, Might is complete, after 3.5 weeks of pain and suffering, my avatar is complete and ready for the update

[ See I was smart with starting early, now I can easily update and not have to worry about outdated avatars, we are smart people B) ]

[shrewd estuary]

i love dynamics ‼️

[warm cedar]

I love dynamics

When it works.

[shrewd estuary]

heehoo contacts go br

[warm cedar]

My avatar on PC: Haha Contact and sound go BRRRRR
My avatar on Quest: silence

[shrewd estuary]

sound moment

[warm cedar]

Yeah I'm already using OSC to add sound on quest

[shrewd estuary]

if avatar audio was on quest it'd probably sound the same resolution of how this cat looks.

[warm cedar]

Oh that reminds me of my "Quest compatible cherub"

Decimation and bitcrush go BRRRR

[shrewd estuary]

[warm cedar]

From 38.5k polys to 5K on PC (3.2k on quest (!) )

and to be authentic, all sound on pc is bitcrushed to no avail, ending at a final PC size of 1.24MB

[stable mantle]

I wonder if there's a way to limit audio that doesn't break the quest. Voice chat still causes lag, so its clear that the audio engine is a bit intense.

But would doing things like, disabling volumetric audio and downmixing to mono help?

[warm cedar]

We already have dynamic physics custom made, I'm expecting some custom audio engine down the line at this point lol

[stable mantle]

GPU Audio

[shrewd estuary]

when i played on quest 1 last summer because heat wave (i wanted to prevent my pc from overheating) the audio would flicker and cut out constantly because of the combination of ui sounds, world sounds, and voice chat.

[stable mantle]

Turn it into an Everything but the network-PU

[shrewd estuary]

audio engine needs some work

[warm cedar]

"Async-multi-threaded audio, the new Avatar Dynamics-dynamic sound beta"

[shrewd estuary]

oh yeah on top of that the game was laggy as shit lol

[stable mantle]

I get little lag in private lobbies but even in an optimized world, post 100-people client update and engine updates, if im near more than, say, 4 people talking at a time, the frames tank.

[warm cedar]

Ah crap I was gunna do a funny

lemme try an image

Here have the funny:

PC limits for the "new audio"

Then the quest limits of course

If we end up getting something like this one day, I'm 99.999% sure this will be the performance ranking

[shrewd estuary]

1

[warm cedar]

for poor quality, mind you

[shrewd estuary]

[warm cedar]

Actually, isn't audio already multithreaded?

It'd be stupid not to do it

[raw forge]

I'm sure it is but the Quest only has 4 very slow cores. I mean worse than 2005 PCs slow. So there's not much to work with

[warm cedar]

I'm praying for the devs to announce they're not supporting quest 1 anymore, it's really dragging behind the game for everyone else (No offense to quest 1 users of course, but facts are facts.)

[stable mantle]

I mean, Quest 2 should have always had alt rankings.

[stable mantle]

Being said, this would work if the SDK allowed animating which audio file was played, and offered mixing of 2 or more sources.

That is, only one source on the model but which audio plays from it could be changed.

Biggest issue is audio in general, even on a Quest 2 like mine, lags it to hell.

Network too.

The initial avatar loads bring the Quest 2 to a halt if its not a fallback.

Once its loaded its fine though.

[warm cedar]

Oh don't worry

even my pc shits itself when loading an avatar

usually the ones with > 80 mat. slots

but again, usually, I can get lagged by the smallest of avis, it IS runtime instatiation of course

[shrewd estuary]

when the thousand material slots hit

[stable mantle]

Hmmm... Maybe forcing preloading of Avatar audio would help rememdy concerns?

That way the only resource used is to play it, not to load it or decode it? That'd eat up RAM though.

[raw forge]

This is why you should set a small download size limit

[warm cedar]

E-girls... still send shivers down my spine

[shrewd estuary]

when the x and o glasses

[stable mantle]

SDK:
You are using 4269 material slots. Recommended: 1

[warm cedar]

My limit is at 80MB, these bitches can compress their slots

[shrewd estuary]

the quest trying to render that:

[raw forge]

30 is my limit. There's no excuse for an avatar to be over 30

[stable mantle]

Quest is hardcoded at 10MB and even my Quest 2 dies when loading any avatar of substance.

[warm cedar]

(Me smiling in 10.25MB)

[raw forge]

Right because Quest is super slow

[raw forge]

Compress!

[warm cedar]

I have, it has a shit ton of stuff on it (25 audio sources!)

I've done what I can, on PC it's 10, quest a mere 5-7

[raw forge]

That in itself is not good lol

[stable mantle]

Quest isn't exactly slow as much as it is poorly CPU optimized. It's clear Oculus wants as much done on the GPU as possible, as its CPUs are underclocked for heat and battery.

[warm cedar]

(I'm moving everything to OSC, don't worry)

[raw forge]

Also remember mesh compression is a thing too

[stable mantle]

TBH, VRChat fails to even kick the Quest into its highest "performance level".

And a lot of VRC according to the profiler is still done on the primary core.

[stiff acorn]

That's Unity for ya.

[shrewd estuary]

wait isn't audio completely not allowed on quest avatars or am i misreading

[stable mantle]

File size

[shrewd estuary]

oh lol

[stable mantle]

10.25MB on PC with audio, 5 - 7 on Quest W/O

[shrewd estuary]

got confused because "audio sources" in above message

[warm cedar]

That's why it's 5-7

I actually don't think it's more than 5

I don't have a quest can't check lol

[stable mantle]

A lot of network code could probably, more reasonably, be offloaded to a slower core.
Audio processing ideally to the second core, and network code to 3rd.

Sacrifice load times for performance and stability.

[stiff acorn]

Same, I rarely ever have more than one sound playing at once, so being able to cut down on unnecessary sources for the sounds that literally can't play at the same time as each other would be very nice.

[raw forge]

The problem with that is then everything would suffer. It's not as simple as setting a dedicated core to a task, as that actually makes it worse.

[stable mantle]

Honestly, being an Android application, offloading network code off of Unity entirely to an embedded helper application would probably be ideal if it could be figured out.

[stable mantle]

Right now everything is mostly dedicated to the primary core, so IDK how that's any better.

Audio processing and networking are likely not intensive on their own, but combining them with the overhead of the entire operating system + the entire overhead of VRChat as a whole, causes issues.

[raw forge]

That's the way unity works. It prioritizes crucial tasks on the primary core. Multithreading is a dreadful system that can cause some really bad crashes if not done right. Unity handles it the safest way possible to avoid any single chance of it crashing

[stable mantle]

The multiple crashes I get regularly say otherwise.

As does the system profiler in ODH.

[stiff acorn]

Those crashes are unrelated.

[raw forge]

That's due to limitations. You'll most likely crash when VRAM fills up entirely (on quest) or someone uses a malicious avatar

[stable mantle]

They tend to happen when a large amount of overlapping audio happens or when a large number of people switch avatars at once.

[warm cedar]

"Malicious avatar", don't be so kind. just say it:

Crashers are dickweeds

[stable mantle]

I haven't experienced crashers is the thing.

[raw forge]

They're not super common for quest but they exist

I met one last night

Reported for harassment to say the least

[stiff acorn]

I've never been crashed by anyone because I have very poor avatars hidden.

[warm cedar]

The beta is erm

There's tons of crashers in the beta rn

I don't know if they work but there are TONS and TONS of people using crashers

Some kid even told me he "just likes the design"

[stiff acorn]

I also don't play in public instances very often either. Mostly just with friends.

[stable mantle]

Old but heres a look at ODH.

Notice that the primary core, Silver, is hammered, whereas the "mid-range" and low-powered Gold & Platinum cores are practically sleeping in comparison.

[raw forge]

I'm friends with a PC crasher and he pretty much likes the designs too

[shrewd estuary]

friends with

a pc crasher

[warm cedar]

friends

[raw forge]

That's because when one core gets held up by a task, the rest are left waiting for that to finish

[shrewd estuary]

this one guy was using entire instance quest crashers because one person they didnt like was in the instance and was using quest

[stable mantle]

VRChat is like that constantly is what Im saying.

[raw forge]

Yeah because those cores are held up by some task, probably draw calling

[stable mantle]

The primary core is always like that and the secondary and tertiary never have any substantial load.

[shrewd estuary]

they have over 400 followers on twitter and are also followed by the official vrchat account

[stable mantle]

Isn't draw calls GPU?

[warm cedar]

Draw calls is a call from CPU -> GPU

[raw forge]

The CPU has to tell the GPU to draw stuff

[warm cedar]

which is Sloooooow

kinda like string comparisons
(I'm looking at you TAGS)

[stable mantle]

My point is that if more stuff is entirely offloaded to another core, in their own threads and ran asynchronously, you'd probably be able to do more with Avatars as a result.

[stiff acorn]

If this wasn't the case, CPU-bottlenecks in rendering wouldn't exist.

[stable mantle]

As it stands, too much is still hammering the poor Quest 2. God forbid what a Quest 1 looks like in ODH.

[warm cedar]

it's E avatars and transparancy

[raw forge]

The issue is you simply can't. Imagine if the CPU had two cores, one for handling draw calls, and the other for spawning objects. If Core #1 takes 1 second to spawn an object, how can Core #0 render it before it's created?

[stiff acorn]

That's not how multithreading works. Offloading a task entirely creates race-conditions.

[stable mantle]

Yes there's going to be some bottlenecks and interoperability. But you're thinking too rigidly.

E.G. If the network code makes a callback to the main thread on the main core, yes, it'll have to wait until the core can reasonably respond.

But if it's able to handle the entirety of the network code itself on a separate core, without getting hung up between draw calls, this greatly improves performance. In fact I wager they already do this, as its the loading in an avatar after it downloads that causes a freeze.

[stable mantle]

I feel like Im saying the wrong words again. Sorry if I don't know the proper terminology to convey what I mean.

Like, Im not saying utilizing the other 2 cores will "save" VRChat on Quest.

Just that they could probably put more focus into additional multithreaded performance, and try to eak out performance on the Gold & Platinum cores to offset the load on the main processor.

As it stands, it feels like too much is fighting for resources.

Audio, Network, and Rendering.

[stiff acorn]

Well, yeah SOME things can be offloaded like that. But there is still the potential for bad race-conditions/crashes if it's done poorly. And it is VERY hard to not do poorly.

[stable mantle]

It can also be necessary though.

If multithreaded code was such a minefield with no clear necessity it wouldn't exist.

It'd be like Itanium 64. Something that has theoretical benefit, but realistically is too difficult and too precarious to even attempt.

[stiff acorn]

Unity is very hard to multithread though.

Notice how most multithreaded games use custom engines?

[stable mantle]

Which is why I think they need to offload to a helper application.

[stiff acorn]

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I have never seen a properly multithreaded game made in Unity.

[stable mantle]

Something compiled to native code that is highly performant and controlled.

which then makes API calls between it and Unity.

Leave Unity for the purely engine stuff, use the helper for network and processing.

[raw forge]

Escape From Tarkov is phenominal when it comes to performance

[raw forge]

Then unity is left waiting for the helper. And the helper needs a core too, where does that come from?

[stable mantle]

The operating system already does embedded applications within applications.

As it stands something needs to improve.

[raw forge]

Right but that still adds overhead and needs to compute somewhere. How would it be better than just running it natively in engine?

[stable mantle]

Optimization and relieving stress previously caused by overloading the primary core with tasks.

The Quest uses a mobile chipset with a philosophy similar to big little cores — A big core to handle heavy hitting tasks, and a little core to handle lighter-weight tasks, background tasks, and general processing.

It's not like an x86 machine where Unity's multithreading likely works fine. Yeah Unity handles that stuff for you. Unity also handles Physics for you. Look where that ended up.

(Hint: VRChat had to rewrite their own avatar physics system)

Long term viability for VRChat on Quest is going to require creative solutions like Avatar Dynamics.

Especially if they stay on Unity 2019.

https://tenor.com/view/modern-problems-chapelle-modern-solutions-gif-15497728

[raw forge]

What's wrong with physics?

[inner kayak]

[stiff acorn]

Unity's built-in physics are garbage.

[warm cedar]

Physx

[stable mantle]

Everything. Any world that uses a moderate amount of active physics causes my Quest 2 to enter potato. Unity's default physics engine also only support GPU physics on iOS and NVidia PCs. Quest is Android. So to the primary core it goes.

I bet you everything that PhysBones are a custom physics engine (built off compute shaders?) on the backend. — Custom GPU code.

It'd have to be complete magic for PhysBones to be using PhysX and be performant.

[stiff acorn]

Huh, I have an AMD GPU. But don't notice too bad of a performance hit with physics. Guess my i7 10700K helps with that lol.

[stable mantle]

Yeah a good CPU helps.

PhysX is a NVidia technology.

So unless newer AMD cards support PhysX somehow, it's pretty much strictly NVidia (though somehow it is supported on iOS in limited fashion).

[stiff acorn]

I had no idea Unity's built-in physics engine was PhysX.

That explains a LOT of things.

[stable mantle]

https://docs.unity3d.com/2019.4/Documentation/Manual/PhysicsSection.html

[wheat fjord]

It should say sorry excuse for an engine

[stable mantle]

This is why Im saying VRChat already is kinda having to work around and change how Unity works. Diving into its multithreading, and optimizing for big.LITTLE would be a good step.

Get the most out of the hardware.

Use Unity for its 3D engine, but leave its networking and data processing to something more performant. Or carefully work within Unity to optimize.

[wheat fjord]

This is why I picked UE4 for my projects

[raw forge]

How is Unity not performant for networking though

[stable mantle]

Honestly, anything like VRChat should realistically been made in a custom engine.

Yes, this is the hardest route to take, but it means you have full control, and don't have to worry about years of technical debt causing deep cuts to the performance on emerging platforms.

[stable mantle]

Didn't say it wasn't. Just said that native code would likely be more performant.

If done right anyways.

[stiff acorn]

It would help alleviate the engine overhead from the networking code.

[shrewd estuary]

vrcat engine

[hazy linden]

Neos is also made in unity though? It doesnt do anything special really

[raw forge]

What is native code though, is what I mean. How is Unity not using native code

[stiff acorn]

Yeah, but that game also runs like crap from what I've heard.

[stable mantle]

I was told it was its own engine.

[stiff acorn]

I thought it was made in UE4.

I've not seen very much of it, so idk too much about it.

[stable mantle]

Unity uses Mono (JIT) or IL2CPP (AoT) to turn C# into native code.

[hazy linden]

You can look in the neos discord itself in the patch notes. It's made in unity with likely the same version as vrchat

[raw forge]

I was told Neos is using Unity for its rendering only

But it's clearly made in Unity

[stable mantle]

So essentially unity games are written in an intermediary language that get translated to native code either at compile time or by the engine JIT. This opens the door for performance issues as the code wasn't designed to account for the platform in mind, and therefor may operate slower than a native application.

E.G. Javascript+HTML in a browser engine vs a native application.

[stable mantle]

My statement has been revised to correct my misinformation. Thank you.

Also. Mono is the default with Unity, which offloads some compilation to the end-device. Which is more CPU overhead.

(VS IL2CPP which compiles longer and is large in size, but is faster when utilized properly)

[raw forge]

VRChat is IL2CPP

[stable mantle]

My SDK defaults to Mono for world creation.

Or, any project really.

Being said, its still an intermediary language.

Code that was designed for the OS rather than agnostic can perform faster than cross-platform code.

[raw forge]

SDK isn't set up with VRC settings

[stable mantle]

???

Maybe its an SDK on Mac thing. You have to use Mono for world compilation for PC (since you cant do IL2CPP for Windows on Mac), but you can use IL2CPP on Android, but the SDK uses mono for both after import.

But IL2CPP vs Mono is moot.

IL2CPP is better, but its not designed for the Quest OS for example.

A native helper application if it were carefully made could improve performance by offloading inefficient tasks to a more efficient executable.

[raw forge]

Unity is super capable though at high level stuff. As I've mentioned before, take a look at Escape From Tarkov. A HIGHLY advanced shooter game with an incredible amount of variables and things happening, all networked in real time. That game runs 90-144fps for me depending on the map and amount of AI. Unity can handle this all when programmed very specifically for it. It comes down to VRChat having so many network synced things that causes the performance hits

[raw forge]

Your SDK defaults to mono, however VRC runs using IL2CPP. The world creation settings don't affect that

[limber remnant]

I'm having an Error saving blueprint errors. any information? [VRCSDK3-AVATAR-2022.04.02.00.45_Public]

[stable mantle]

Is it a new avatar?

Gotta use an older SDK for new ones.

[limber remnant]

If I do that how do I change the SDK? Is that how I get it uploaded?

[stable mantle]

You just need a valid Blueprint ID.

A cheap way is to create an empty project with a cube or something and upload that as an avatar with the live SDK to get the ID.

The paste that id into the Pipeline manager of the actual avatar with the latest SDK.

[signal condor]

Not totally true, I can upload new blueprint ids with the newest SDK just fine

(Newest beta sdk)

[stable mantle]

Was there an update pushed? I didnt get a notification. And last I knew many people had issues with the latest SDK I thought.

Im quite possibly mistaken though.

[mystic saffron]

When will this come out as an official update

[shrewd estuary]

no current release date

[supple void]

is there a simple way to make a slider other than a phys bone and some empties with a position constraint axis locked?

[winter dragon]

https://youtu.be/4o1YMX7jBA0

[shrewd estuary]

[sick badger]

how did you get avatar object pickup to work?
been struggling for the past hour to try and get a system that functions

[modern flame]

Neos isn't made in Unity. It has a custom engine under the hood and uses Unity for its rendering pipeline. They glued the custom code to Unity

[hazy linden]

Huh, interesting

[modern flame]

That's not at all how unity's PhysX implementation works. It has absolutely nothing to do with hardware PhysX acceleration. It's a completely software implementation. Your Quest 2 enters potato because it's a phone chipset from 2020 driving stereo rendering at 1832 x 1920 per eye.
When it comes to Physbones, it's custom physics built using Unity's native math, Burst, & Jobs for parallelization of calculating transforms/collisions

[winter dragon]

uses physbones and a world constraint

[tough abyss]

Yes more games! Good stuff

[stable mantle]

You basically said the same thing. Unity on supported hardware can provide GPU accelerated physics calculations. Quest it's not supported. So it uses software calculations.

I don't appreciate your aggression either.

I admit: i don't know how PhysBones do work. But I knew for a fact they were custom physics, yet the same. That was literally my whole point.

[modern flame]

No. Unity on supported hardware doesn't do GPU accelerated PhysX. It's always a software implementation

[stable mantle]

Maybe the information I read was mistaken then. Since PhysX is a NVidia technology perhaps it was inappropriately referred to as GPU accelerated by some people.

Though, I gotta say im kinda tired of this whole server picking apart my statements every time i voice a generalized idea to, IDK, improve Quest performance?

[modern flame]

"PhysX" as a brand has a long and confusing history. There were/are hardware-accelerated implementations, but that's not what Unity uses.

[stable mantle]

It sounds like half of you would rather the whole platform die.

[modern flame]

And in the end, it's not like they're ignoring quest performance. Quest makes up over 60% of the playerbase. They're by no means neglecting it. But this also probably isn't the channel for quest performance discussion unless the discussion is about Physbone performance being fast enough to be used on Quest

[stable mantle]

I mean conversions segway. It's natural.

As long as we loop back in the end.

You're the one who brought it back up.

[modern flame]

I was just providing some clarification on Physbones implementation since you had been speculating on it being GPU driven, and I was just clarifying that the PhysX stuff is not something where it's negatively impacting Quest.

Either way, Physbones are built using Burst+Jobs. Burst is an LLVM compiler to transpile IL (primarily intended for HPC math). Jobs is a system for simplifying threading in Unity by dispatching small batches of work (in this case the FABRIK calculation, collision, etc) to Unity's native job queue, where the worker threads consume those jobs then process the data. It's highly performant and works natively with Unity's internal systems. Since the actual physbone algorithms are parallelized algorithms, it can then take advantage of this to create highly-performant dynamics.

[stable mantle]

Oh i think you misunderstood then. I was saying that PhysBones was too performant to not be something custom, I was merely mistaken on how.

PhysBones would not be as performant as it is, if it were with PhysX.

Because VRC invested in a custom solution it works better.

Which was my argument that perhaps elsewhere they should use custom solutions too.

Rely less on Unity's stock feature set.

That's kinda where the conversation started. We were talking about physbones performance, which segued into optimizing avatars; how audio is not present on Quest but perhaps should, with optimizations, and how VRChat could possibly start working on custom solutions elsewhere (Audio engine, network client) that rely less on Unity, more on writing highly efficient custom solutions that are tailored to Quest's big.LITTLE architecture, to give the main core as much of a break as possible.

[novel veldt]

how did you fix it, people are having that issue a lot

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/961840381866156072/961846895150526495/unknown.png

open beta newest sdk has been having issues uploading avatars and creating blueprints

[winter dragon]

https://vrchat.canny.io/open-beta/p/1186cant-upload-new-avatars

basically upload a avatar with a different sdk then use its blueprint id for your avatar in the new sdk

[ashen radish]

Is it possible to animate bone scale?

I've been trying to animate bone scale but it seems to be not working

[stiff acorn]

Nope.

Unity does not support scaling humanoid bones.

[ashen radish]

Oh, no i mean the phys bone radius

that's what i meant to say

[stiff acorn]

Oh lol.

[ashen radish]

I've been trying to make a clone of the model and animating it through that one

like what i usually do

[stiff acorn]

You should be able to animate the property the same way you would with other components? I've not tried it though.

[stiff acorn]

I also misread that and thought you meant humanoid bones lol. I'm tired, I'm in no position to be trying to give support rn.

[ashen radish]

It's alright

[open kite]

Yus

Just scale up the transform

[warm cedar]

Let's see if we get a beta update today, I doubt it, but just like getting killed by a cow
The chances are never 0.

[floral monolith]

What does it mean when the thingy says failed to upload blueprint

[ashen terrace]

where's the list of physics bones performance rank limits chart

vrchat official doc still only lists dynamic bones

and it says physics colliders at the bottom but I think that's mesh colliders, not avatar dynamics

[shrewd estuary]

mfw no beta update

[timber jewel]

https://docs.vrchat.com/v2022.1.2/docs/avatar-performance-ranking-system#pc-limits

At the top left you can select the Avatar Dynamics Beta for the docs

[ashen terrace]

Thanks for the link!

Since avatar dynamics will default all avatars with colliders on the hands/head, will those count towards the performance rank?

and are those physbones colliders or are they avatar dynamics contacts

[ashen fulcrum]

"## Known Issues
These are bugs that we know about already, and plan on addressing before leaving Open Beta."

I do hope that this list is incomplete and will be updated?

[warm cedar]

What do you mean?