open-beta-discussion

[sonic wing]

idk why but says error every time I put in the sdk do i need a new unity or somthing? im useing 2019

[near grove]

Yoo is the beta issue fixed for Oculus when you get stuck in it or not?

[hasty crater]

Which version of 2019 Unity are you using? It needs to be Unity 2.19.4.31f1.

[sonic wing]

thats the version im useing

[mental marsh]

Damn that is pretty far away from now

It’s like 20 years

[turbid chasm]

Does anyone know if quest will be getting constraints or not?

[dim cloak]

Don't know for sure, but I do believe there is a canny that is being internally tracked for it.

https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/1181-constrains-on-quest Yeah this here

[turbid chasm]

Alr, thanks

[timber plinth]

bro look at these massive ass grab balls

no wonder i have problems with grabbing stuff

theyre like 1 foot big

[inner kayak]

i have same issue

thinking its avatars scale

mines scaled 1.2x in unity

[timber plinth]

mine is <1,1,1>

might be based on the hand bone size or something

i see little avatars with smaller hands have a really hard time grabbing stuff

just make it scale appropriately with the hand size instead of exponentially

and add options to configure it manually

i will make a canny post abt it if there isnt one

[inner kayak]

pls do

[shrewd estuary]

taking this message out of context

[gaunt flower]

balls

[lavish pendant]

hey, i'm very new to avatar making, i want to make this like a movable hat, would this setup work? or would it obstruct my view because it's on the neck bone instead of the head bone? also the base came with 2 head bones but i wand to make the smaller head floaty anyways so would a hinge like that also work there? (i have a whole explanation about why i set it up this way instead of having it on the head bone, but i'm planning on using fixed joints to pair them, lmk if there's any unexpected behaviors between physbones and fixed joints)

[timber plinth]

basically you need to make a very long bone, probably from the base of your avatar

then put the traffic cone bone as the end point, probably rigged to a bone at the very top

enable stretch and they can take it a pretty long distance

how stretching works is the bones positions change, so there is no scaling done

also it will obstruct your view

but thankfully you can use IsLocal for that, but it will also hide in the mirror

so another alternative might be to just parent it to the head bone

which will work fine, but if it gets posed, it will move with your head

[lavish pendant]

that's what i want

[timber plinth]

ok then thats fine just parent the entire contraption to your head

something like this:

this lets you set collider between the start of long2 and the start of cone bone also

so people could grab anywhere on the cone to stretch

you can also make the first long bone shorter if you want more rotational control, at a cost to positional

this should require no constraints

[lavish pendant]

i'll try it, thanks

[timber plinth]

and rig the cone to Cone Bone

[lavish pendant]

although would my current one work if i just parented it to the head, at the cost of people being unable to steal it?

your advice reminded me that you can parent bones with an offset which was why i had it at the neck anyways

[timber plinth]

yea that one would work but

this one should work a lot better

especially since its rigged to the top bone instead

[lavish pendant]

yeah i'll still try yours

[timber plinth]

cuz the way that stretch works is the bones are positioned

so the bone that will be closest to where the hand is (if grabbing from the tip) will be the end bone

and its something i have to use in other bones on my avatar too, like for stretchy cheeks

have to rig it to the end bone cuz if its on the root bone it does nothing

[lunar mica]

im testing the open beta with the new phys bones, does anyone know why this happens to my avi? its my main i always use and fear if this happens to it when it goes live 😅

[desert grove]

is that with reuploading using phys bones or using the inagme conversation to convert dynamic bones to phys bones?

[blazing aurora]

So I’m stuck in beta after switching out of it I’ve tried uninstalling, restarting, etc is this a common issue?

[lunar mica]

inagme conversertion

[desert grove]

could be u setting up dyanmic bones improperly on that avatar in the first place which when converted with make it do weird stuff. I suggest redoing the avatar and uploading it using phys bones

i have seen improper dynamic bone implication for a while and now those methods break when converting.

[lunar mica]

that makes sense yeah, is it already in the recent vrcsdk?

[desert grove]

its in the beta sdk

[lunar mica]

ohhh okei, ill try that then :3, tyyy

[wooden isle]

have you messed with osc

[lunar mica]

osc? no i havent

[upper galleon]

that looks like what happens if you use and added one of the reserved params, such as Voice which was added in this beta into your avatar params

looks like that was fixed though

[urban salmon]

Heyoo. I read the docs and for some reason can’t get a receiver to work. Anyone able to help?

[mossy python]

Is it a float parameter

[urban salmon]

Yep

[mossy python]

What are you trying to receive contact from

[urban salmon]

Just a hand. I added the hand tags as well as finger.

[mossy python]

Well what is the function, some more details may help specify where it’s going wrong

Also one more thing you can do to test is actually pull up the debug menu in game and see if the parameter is actually being driven

[urban salmon]

So I'm trying to get players to be able to touch a receiver and cause a animation to trigger. I set up the receiver in a empty object and moved it into place. Put the parameter button in the fx layer and set the condition to transition for button to be greater than 0.

[urban salmon]

I checked that and the value stayed at 0 when I collided with it.

[mossy python]

Well there’s your first issue your radius is negative

Also on enter only drives the parameter for a frame

[urban salmon]

I tried the constant as well. So I guess there's a limit on size?

[mossy python]

Try making the size positive I’d assume

[urban salmon]

ah nvm lol..idk how i did negative.

Ight lets see.

[mossy python]

Also if you’re using Lyuma emulator, mileage may vary on getting receivers working

I know I couldn’t get Lyuma to work with it

[urban salmon]

Gotcha, I haven't tried anything else yet. Just wanted to start messing with these.

[mossy python]

It’s all good

I went from confused to making a full PvP system within a day lol

[urban salmon]

Oh dang that sounds awesome.

Id like to see it someday if it's finished.

[mossy python]

Oh it is and the avatar is public

[urban salmon]

Ooo where can I test it?

[mossy python]

It’s not in any world yet so you’d have to clone it off someone but I’ll probably make a world for it

It’s Kris from Deltarune

[urban salmon]

hmm so i'm trying to test it out in unity by making a custom sender and moving it in play mode. The value still stays at 0 tho.

[mossy python]

I’d actually try in game

[urban salmon]

I was following a vid step by step and it worked for them. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Might as well try in game.

[urban salmon]

Thx for the help btw!

[mossy python]

No worries

[urban salmon]

Hmm yeah It worked in game but just not in unity.

[mossy python]

Yep that’s what happened with mine lol

[urban salmon]

At least it works now. Let’s goo

Wish you could test it in unity though.

[near grove]

I'm stuck on beta

How to unstall

[urban salmon]

Did you try going back and clicking beta again?

It should uninstall.

[near grove]

Send me the tutorial

[lavish pendant]

i seem to be a magician, because no matter what i try, some bones are disappearing. With my set of bones, the second part of the hinge vanishes and the first part andthe cone bone becomes... some sort of point. same with wunder's idea, but the first long bone is place upside down for some reason. I think this is some sort of entire other issue, probably not beta related so i should post it in the avatar help channel

[warm cedar]

Heya popcorn!

[warm cedar]

You can actually

just create a sphere with a contact sender, and a collider, not sure if it has to have a collider but it should technically work

[stable mantle]

You dont even need a mesh to test contact senders, since the VRC Contact Sender itself has a collider defined by its properties.

I created an empty game object with a single cylindrical contact sender called "the finger" in the root of my project (outside my avatar) to test touch interaction with my model.

You just need to be sure your animator that youre testing is applied temporarily to the avatar.

Since VRC manages its animators, in Unity your avatar will have an animator component but no animator controller.

So if you want to test an animation in the FX layer, that relies on a contact sender, you need to add the FX controller to your avatar during testing (just make sure its empty before upload).

[warm cedar]

I have a sphere I use, I call it the TestBall

And unity just crashed :)
I am not going insane, t'is but an illusion

[stable mantle]

At least it didn't get confused and think it was uploading a Quest avatar on a PC build. :P

Had that happen yesterday — Kept telling me my avatar was a few MB over the "10MB limit", even though that's not something on PC.

[warm cedar]

I. I am actually going insane

All I did was change a parameter, and Unity shat itself

Hmm Living that Unity lifestyle, UNCERTAIN AND UNSTABLE.
God I fucking love this engine <3

[stable mantle]

You: Hmmm... today, I think I'll change a parameter.
Unity: No.

https://tenor.com/view/stop-it-stop-that-velma-scooby-doo-gif-9396790

Im lucky Unity runs at all sometimes.

I updated the beta SDK and suddenly all my avatar stats disappeared. Hopefully a unity relaunch fixes that.

Oh no that made it worse

[warm cedar]

More like this:
Me: Turns off animation preview
Unity: **You puny mortal, do you think you have any rights to click this here button? No. You are in an endless loop of suffering and existance, you are meaningless, I hereby declare your project... ** GONE.

And that's not even beginning about networking spaghetti

[stable mantle]

Here's a fun one. Randomly, Unity will get into an import loop working on Prefabs.

It'll see that the prefab is updated, and import it, then because I'm in the prefab, it'll import it again. And again. And again. And again. For eternity, until I force quit and relaunch it.

[final ferry]

How many for days until the beta is fully released. It hurts every pasting second

[shrewd heron]

I been thinking about the same thing big human

It’s really starting to get on my nerves because I had to revert to the live version to be able to play with friends but I still like the dynamic avatars 😢

[shrewd heron]

Does anyone know any date when the beta could be coming out

(On quest

[sudden sonnet]

afaik there's no solid in stone release date for it

I'd imagine it'd take as long as it takes them to iron out all of the bugs people report

[mental marsh]

So 10 years?

[sudden sonnet]

hell if I know

[near grove]

I have an estimation

The end of this month or the beginning of April

But it'll be out soon

God you guys are a bit inpatient

[final pike]

hi is this where i can be help with unity problem regarding avatar making with the beta ?

[hollow hatch]

If you've still not fixed the issue you've been asking about, open the package manager in Unity, make sure you have both the Burst package and Mathematics packages installed.

[limber quartz]

#open-beta-discussion message

[final ferry]

That was like a week ago

[timber jewel]

doesn't change anything other than that you can subtract a week from what he said

[limber quartz]

Stance hasn’t changed since.

[final pike]

i dont understand...is it not out ? what did i download then ?
that one ? VRCSDK3-AVATAR-2022.03.04.12.28_Public

[final ferry]

https://files.vrchat.cloud/sdk/VRCSDK3-AVATAR-2022.03.18.16.13_Public.unitypackage

[timber jewel]

You need this SDK:
https://files.vrchat.cloud/sdk/VRCSDK3-AVATAR-2022.03.18.16.13_Public.unitypackage

It's still in beta and will probably go live in a month or so

[final pike]

oh there is already another new one. I found that one when i went into the beta world

either way i had a question on the model im working on the version im on since i cant figure why i have an error. This animator here is the one from the robot exemple

now on mine it look like this and like i said there is an error

[final ferry]

I'm hope it's 2 more weeks

It was release nearing beginning of the month

[timber jewel]

There are still a few bugs and things people would like to be implemented, so it will still take some time

[timber jewel]

I rather have something polished than to get it earlier

[final ferry]

I hope there's a disable physbone button

Or option

[timber jewel]

disable Phys Bones?

[limber quartz]

There's a toggle in performance settings to disable physbone auto-conversion

You won't be able to enjoy the benefits of avatar dynamics and physbones obviously.

[timber jewel]

you will, but only with Avatars who were uploaded with Phys Bones, but you wont be able to interact with others

[final ferry]

I know but it's obnoxious how people already max out their physbone

[limber quartz]

True, but maxed out physbones is better then maxed out dyn bones ^^;

[timber jewel]

Also the reason why even thought they perform like 20x better, they haven't upped the performance limit by 20x

[final ferry]

Still cause awful bit of lag. Maybe a limit physbone would be great

[limber quartz]

I mean, you can limit those in performance settings

[final ferry]

Only dynamic

[timber jewel]

you actually can't

[limber quartz]

Oh wait you can't? Huh, didn't realize ^^;

Canny time? 👀

[timber jewel]

nope, there is not limit option for Phys Bones

tbh I don't see big of a reason for it

[final pike]

Was the robot exemple in vrsdk suppose to move if you go on play mode, when you move him ? Like the tail, was it suppose to sway from side to side ? (like when you applied dynamic bone you would see it)

[final ferry]

I swear people just drag the whole armature and it cause fps drop

400+ Bones

And zoomers who want to look like a e girl/boy clone and pass them around

[slender thistle]

Hello.
I am currently working on something that uses the new vrc reveiver and Sender.

my set up works perfectly in unity but sadly it is not working after I upload the avatar

[final ferry]

How are you driving your contacts @slender thistle

[final pike]

that could be ask in #avatars-osc

[timber jewel]

Contacts have nothing to do with OSC

[final pike]

?

[final ferry]

Are you using floats or int

[slender thistle]

Im using int

index triggers it

[final ferry]

That's the problem

[slender thistle]

should not be thou

[final ferry]

Use float

I had the same issue when I first use contacts

[timber jewel]

They are talking about this, which is a part of Avatar Dynamics:
https://docs.vrchat.com/v2022.1.2/docs/contacts

[slender thistle]

I changed the value it sets to match my set up

[final ferry]

Well, you can do something similar by doing less than and greater .1

To achieve the same effect

[slender thistle]

Constant - Informs you when any contacts are present. Resets when no contact is detected.

it resets to 0 and I dont have anything on 0 so it should be fine

[timber jewel]

@slender thistle

[slender thistle]

I know that

[timber jewel]

all of them are floats

[final ferry]

Since less than .1 is quite similar to 0 use that

Instead of equal to 0

[timber jewel]

(floats only have Less or Greater)

[final ferry]

I know

Just explaining if he wants to convert it

[timber jewel]

why would you do that?

[final ferry]

Because he's using int

[timber jewel]

but why is he using an int?

there is no reason

[final ferry]

He didn't know

[timber jewel]

to use an int

[final ferry]

And I'm guessing the other one is equal to 1 right?

@slender thistle

Convert that to greater than .1

And it should achieve the same effect

[noble bramble]

when trying to use proximity. changing to constant or enter works fine

[slender thistle]

fixed it by using floats thanks for the help you all

[dreamy skiff]

How would I go about getting the motion of unsheathing a sword when I grab the handle and pull?

[final ferry]

I advise you get the emulator tool

It can save you on uploading time

It basically simulate vrchat mechanics without the uploading

And it works with OSC and AD

[noble bramble]

r u talking about lyuma or do we have something new?

[final ferry]

Yeah lyuma

[warm cedar]

If anyone is looking for an Avatar dynamic version of the cherub that's quest compatible, got one, ready to give out and clone.
Has headpats, boops, and an interactable cord

[near grove]

I have the oculus quest 2 is there a way to get the beta on it

[dreamy skiff]

Look near the top of #open-beta-info

[urban salmon]

@stable mantle Hey might! That’s what I was trying before with an empty object but the float wasn’t being driven. Tested it in vrchat and it worked there.

[rigid vigil]

Does anyone know exactly when beta is coming out?

[barren wigeon]

It's one of those situations where it will come out when it comes out.

[void oracle]

I would have a question regarding Contacts too. You need to have a Tag for the receiver but I could not find any info which tags you need to detect the autogenerated hands and fingers of other players? What am I missing?

[timber jewel]

You can just select Fingers?

@void oracle

[void oracle]

Thanks a bunch. How silly of me to read the docs before trying it 😉

[plush sorrel]

can someone tell me how to get into the beta

[bright jungle]

See the top of #open-beta-info c:

[near grove]

Yo can you guys give me avatar worlds that have physics for beta

[quasi bramble]

How would you make it when your hand collides with a receiver and then it temporarily activates a basic toggle on your avatar, but it only deactivates when you collide with the receiver again? Here is my setup

[stable mantle]

Might've been a bug then; were you using a custom parameter or a "stock" parameter like Finger or Foot for the test contact sender? I used finger for mine since i was testing a nose boop.

I have no idea if custom parameters test right.

[stable mantle]

One way I can think of:

Change the Receiver Type to On Enter.

In the controller, create two animation states, then add an internal parameter such as "SaberEnabled (Bool)" in the same controller's parameter tab — I'm basing this of your screenshot's name, btw.

In the first one have your On state, and add a VRC Avatar Parameter Driver, with it set to change "SaberEnabled" (or whatever you named the parameter) to True.

Have its transition parameters from "Any State" be "Saber Equals 1" and "SaberEnabled (or whatever you named the parameter) False".

In the second state have your Off state, and add a VRC Avatar Parameter Driver, with it set to change "SaberEnabled" (or whatever you named the parameter) to False.

Have its transition parameters from "Any State" be "Saber Equals 1" and "SaberEnabled (or whatever you named the parameter) True".

[quasi bramble]

Ok! Thank you I will go see if that works

[stable mantle]

If I'm correct, essentially:

When the Saber contact is activated, it will check the Bool for SaberEnabled. If that is true, it'll switch to the Off scene, and set SaberEnabled to false; otherwise, if it's false, it'll switch to the On scene and set SaberEnabled to true.

By using "On Enter", it'll only set the Saber value to 1 on first contact, then reset it to 0 next frame. This prevents (or should) the animation from endlessly transitioning between On & Off, as it will only switch every time the value is 1.

[quasi bramble]

can you give me a screenshot of what the Transitions and Animation States would like as a layout?\

[stable mantle]

I can lay something out. Might take me a little bit; I was up all night updating my avatar so i just woke up.

[quasi bramble]

Ok!

[stable mantle]

But it shouldn't take too long.

[quasi bramble]

Alr, Thanks.

[muted bloom]

Found a bug with mirror mode on the descriptor colliders https://vrchat.canny.io/open-beta/p/1184-editing-descriptor-colliders-in-mirror-mode-assumes-avatar-is-at-0-0-0

[quasi bramble]

Picture?

[stable mantle]

Still working.

Wanted to set up a test scene and make sure it works first.

[quasi bramble]

alr!

[prisma quiver]

So I know many people have probably asked this already but how do you get it out of the open beta version on the oculus.

[bright jungle]

Switch to Live, uninstall the game, and reinstall the game

if that doesn't work, wait a couple hours before reinstalling

[stable mantle]

Do the same steps you did to get into the Beta, only switch back to the live branch.

You'll have to uninstall VRChat and wait up to an hour for the switch to take effect.

If you have a backup of the release version, you can also use ADB to downgrade it on a developer unlocked quest.

[prisma quiver]

Thank you for the help I'll go and try that.

[stable mantle]

Ugh.

[stable mantle]

Im trying to send the pictures but I gotta put em in a collage first. the Bot doesn't like 7 attachments

@quasi bramble

[near grove]

For PVP related things, will Avatar Dynamics allow props to drag people?

Planning to throw a harpoon at someone and drag them back specifically as an example

I'd be fine with knowing that things like that wouldn't be allowed for certain reasons though

[quasi bramble]

mk

[stable mantle]

@quasi bramble here's my demo too. (Sadly VRC Avatar Parameter Drivers are not Unity testable, so it'd only work inside VRChat. But the rest is 100% testable.)

[quasi bramble]

nice! Thank you so much for helping me!

[stable mantle]

NP it was a fun experiment in a more advanced Avatar Dynamics control.

OH! @quasi bramble here's the layout too in the animator, just in case:

[loud pasture]

I have a question about this, how do I need do call the parameter?
Can I give it a normal name like Grab or do I need to name it like it is said? for example the Bool {Grab}_IsGrabbed or Grab_IsGrabbed ?
Because I don't understand this part

[stable mantle]

The parameter for bones is a "prefix".

So if you named the parameter "Tail", the bone(s) would provide 3 parameters:

Tail_IsGrabbed: Bool (True/False)

Tail_Stretch: Float (0 - 1)

Tail_Angle: Float (0 -1)

You could then, in any of your animator controllers linked to your avatar, add those parameters to the controller's parameter list, and call them as part of animation transitions. — In theory, you could even drive them with a parameter driver, though I do not know if that works.

E.G. From "Any State" transition to "Blush" if "Tail_IsGrabbed" = True, in the FX layer.

[loud pasture]

I guess I understand it. so I only need to add the parameter menu or how to call it that you add to the avatar in the FX and not the parameters itself?

[stable mantle]

You don't need the parameter in your Avatar Parameter list, unless you plan to drive that parameter with a menu option.

Otherwise, just make sure whatever layer controllers that need to access that parameter define it in their parameters page (above the layers there's a "parameters" tab in the animator view).

[loud pasture]

okay, thank you. I guess I can continue now. lets hope it works what I am trying to do XD

[stable mantle]

It's like any other parameter in that regard; If it is "internal" — If you're not using it in the menu or syncing it, then it just needs to be in each controller that accesses it.

If you ARE controlling it from a menu (external), it needs to be in the Params list asset as well, so menus can access it.

[loud pasture]

only other people can interact with it. like when grabbed it activates something

so I guess I don't need it in the parameter list

[quasi bramble]

It still isnt working\

Whenever I put the sender onto it, It turns it on then immediately turns back off\

[stable mantle]

Yeah. Parameter List is only for menu stuff and synced parameters. Bones are given an exception that they don't need to be in the list for syncing.

[stable mantle]

That's on purpose. The receiver is essentially just triggering the action to set the _Enabled bool.

What is your animator like?

[quasi bramble]

its the Hand Gesture FX thing

[stable mantle]

Can you share a screenshot of the saber layer after making changes?

[quasi bramble]

sure gimme a sec

[stable mantle]

Disable "Can Transition to Self"

On both transitions.

[quasi bramble]

alr

[stable mantle]

Also remember, you have to go into VRChat to test the full thing, since param drivers don't test in play mode.

[quasi bramble]

ohhhh

alr alr

[stable mantle]

Yeah in Unity Play mode it'll turn it on, but the "Enabled" state won't get set. If you had "can transition to self" on then Unity was probably stuck in a loop transitioning back and forth like ping-pong.

Turning off "can transition to self" for both directions lets you at least test the on-state, and then you can also test the "off" state by manually toggling the Enabled parameter while in play mode.

[quasi bramble]

alr

I am going to take a break for now but is it ok if we keep in touch? Oh and forgot to say still didnt work 😢

[stable mantle]

Im a bit nervous about accepting friend requests without knowing people more, BUUUT you can shoot me a DM (I should have those on) for more in depth help.

I could throw together a controller for you to copy, if youd like.

[quasi bramble]

yeah I would like that

[stable mantle]

https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/1184-add-optional-plane-collider-size-limitation

Kinda hope they see this. It seems silly you can't limit the plane size.

[shrewd estuary]

you cant limit plane sizes because theyre infinite

[strange spoke]

makes the math easier

[stable mantle]

https://tenor.com/view/why-huh-but-why-gif-13199396

[shrewd estuary]

this

[warm cedar]

I will pay you to make this a prefab

I will bloody pay you

[stable mantle]

It seems like it encourages you to use a bunch of cylinder colliders though. Wouldn't that be more intense on the math?

[shrewd estuary]

better than having all that and finite plane ig

[stable mantle]

Having a row of super thin sphere colliders for example, for, like a sword?

That's somehow better?

[shrewd estuary]

idk i dont unity

[stable mantle]

Than just a plane? With a set width?

[shrewd estuary]

(ok maybe i do just with toggles n stuff)

[barren wigeon]

You need the bones to be thin?

[stable mantle]

Not bones.

Colliders

And, if planes are added to Contact Senders/Receivers, those too.

[shrewd estuary]

collidones

slashj

[barren wigeon]

Do you really need the colliders to be thin?

[stable mantle]

Yes.

E.G. My avatar has a sword. It doesn't have bones on it, but I want it to collide with other objects.

It's almost entirely flat, but it's wide.

Getting enough colliders to where parts don't clip the sword, but also don't collide 4" above it would take a good handful of colliders.

[barren wigeon]

I think your looking for a level of precision that is really too much

[stable mantle]

And there's a sword for each hand.

How is a flat collider precise?

I thought the point of the plane is that it's not dealing with volume. It's flat.

[barren wigeon]

Ok i have always thought of a plane not as a flat surface but as a infinitely large object that is only on one side of the collider

Nothing is allowed on the wrong side of the plane

[stable mantle]

I guess to be fair, plane meshes are single-sided.

So maybe what I'm thinking of is a box-collider with no-height?

[barren wigeon]

If something moves fast enough and the colliders is small enough, something will still bypass the non infinite colliders

[stable mantle]

This is still preferable as the same applies to cylinder colliders, but more so since they'd be even smaller.

[stable mantle]

What's your price?

[warm cedar]

5 Boops and 3 headpats

https://tenor.com/bbf6I.gif

[stable mantle]

LMAO

I'd have to find a way to covert text to a legit mesh to be Avatar friendly. But The button itself is functional in testing.

[shy plover]

Just a heads up, I've released a version of pumkin tools that supports avatar dynamic copying in the discord

[stable mantle]

@shrewd estuary @strange spoke

I'd need roughly... 25? Of these just to span my sword whilst being of reasonable thickness.

[shrewd estuary]

green :)

[stable mantle]

That's excessive.

And that's 1 of 2 swords

50 cylinder colliders just for a prop seems like it'd be WAY harder on performance than some kind of finite, double sided plane. And less accurate at such small radiuses.

[shrewd estuary]

this looks like an album cover

[shrewd estuary]

yike

[stable mantle]

Yeah. And my worry is, unlike myself, some people aren't going to care.

[shrewd estuary]

whats wrong with having one big one then or are you unable to do that

[stable mantle]

I don't want PhysBones getting trashed on Quest just because the tools are inadequate.

[stable mantle]

Those colliders you see? Each one is as thick as the thickest part of the sword.

[shrewd estuary]

ouch oof my frames per second

[stable mantle]

A large one would put the boundries a good 6" outside the actual sword.

Like, stuff would be "hovering" if i tried lifting them with the sword.

[shrewd estuary]

nothing wrong with having it just be a bit outside of the sword, u can probably cut the amount of colliders in half and still have a decent boundary

yea it'd look weird but i'd rather it look weird than have my game run at 10 fps

[stable mantle]

Still feels like even, say, a perimeter and an "axis" would be less performant than just a flat surface.

I don't care if stuff clips the sword a little as long as they don't go through.

Its sharpest edge is literally flat after all.

[shrewd estuary]

keep decreasing the amount of colliders until u feel its going TOO much outside the sword

i'd rather do that than have my game go "hahaha AAA"

(now with less a's because mod bot)

[stable mantle]

Oh I'm not putting ANY colliders on my sword current.

[shrewd estuary]

alrigh

[stable mantle]

That was the whole point of my feeback.

"Uh hey, this would be useful and would encourage better practices"

[shrewd estuary]

alright

upvoted ur feedback post, i can see where you're coming from now

[stable mantle]

Because, uh, a lot of avatar devs don't care about performance. I won't use a 25 collider sword, but I bet my great aunt someone will when these things are public if there's not better alternatives.

[shrewd estuary]

hehe

[stable mantle]

LMAO

[shadow chasm]

Is there a good way to get which direction the physbone angle is tilted? I have it axis locked and I'm trying to determine which way direction on the axis, besides hacky collision stuff.

[warm cedar]

https://youtu.be/_ESg4AeIvbo

Just thought I'd place that here

[shrewd estuary]

hehe gun

[warm cedar]

The gun without the power cell is lame,

infuse it with the cell and you get LEAN

[shrewd estuary]

also waow the hud your avatar has looks neat

[warm cedar]

Thank Polygon cherub, he's the person that designed the avatar, I'm just using it as my erh.. subject

[shadow chasm]

Also any better ideas to be able to get the individual angle at each transform for a chain of dynamic bones besides having each transform be controlled by an independent physbone component? That doesn't seem very computationally effecient.

[stable mantle]

Im actually curious about this myself — Isn't the params only for the "root" bone?

[shadow chasm]

That's what it seems like? It would be nice to be able to add some component or something on children to export out the angle into a parameter

Either way I've hacked enough "solutions" to control my robot through vrchat. But boy is it hacky

[stable mantle]

Hmmm. A "VRCBoneController" might be a thing to put in feedback for — a control that listens and can animate a bone, whilst being updateable by other animations or a parent PhysBone.

[timber jewel]

So, I have a hoddie with 2 laces, on both can be pulled, I want my Animator to always go to the one with the higher _Stretch value. Is there a way to compare 2 floats in Animators?

[warm cedar]

Ahahaha, "compare", haha, this is unity, you will suffer

I don't think you can, unless you try to create some type of transition-logic

[timber jewel]

great

Thanks Unity

[warm cedar]

Unity is le bad

meh still like it

[stable mantle]

Maybe a BlendTree could work?

It'd be pretty complex. Not quite sure how you'd go about it.

But that's my instinct.

[warm cedar]

BlackRat can do it

they be a smart fella, not a fart smellah

[timber jewel]

this thing should switch between two blend trees xD

which makes this a bit more problematic

[stable mantle]

You can nest blend trees. That's how my locomotion controller works.

[timber jewel]

wait, I can make blend to a other blend tree

[warm cedar]

blend tree into a blend tree into the blend tree into the blend tree...

[mortal plume]

yo dawg I heard you like blend trees, so I put a blendtree in your blendtree so you can blend while you blendtree

[stable mantle]

Yeah. My locomotion controller blends between the standing, crouching, and prone blend trees, based on the standing value.

That way i don't need to constantly futz with transition logic.

And it's more dynamic ✨

[timber jewel]

well this will be fun

[stable mantle]

Let me play with something and I'll get back.

I have nothing to do today.

[timber jewel]

uhh I don't think it will work the way I need it

or maybe it does? idk

[muted bloom]

Imagine a 2D blend tree could do this.

Both stretch values as the X and Y

Full animation on all but the 0,0 corner

Not really a comparison but same result

Full animation triggered if either or both is 100%

[timber jewel]

which 2d should I use?

[timber plinth]

what is this for what

[timber jewel]

wow, that actually works quiet well

[timber plinth]

what are you trying to do

trying to make it so it goes up when both are pulled, or either?

you might need one at 1,1 and freeform cartesian

[timber jewel]

I have this hoddie, with 2 laces, I my hoddie goes up when I pull at them

It works how I wanted it to now ^^

Not really how I wanted it, but that's because of this...
https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/1184-small-max-stretch-doesnt-work-with-stretch-parameter

[muted bloom]

I would go with freeform Cartesian and do four points. Down at 0,0, and up at 0,1 1,0 and 1,1.

[stable mantle]

I got it.

Well. I got it kinda?

I have to catch up on the discussion.

This is what I had for comparing 2 values though.

If the left side & right side are equal, in simple testing, if normalized blend values is checked, it's no different than them being 0.

So whichever has a higher value gets "weighted" more on the animation.

[timber jewel]

it works the same way as without the 1 1

so only 3 are actually needed

[pine basalt]

is there a date that the update is specified to come out, or will we have to just wait and see?

[timber jewel]

wait and see

[pine basalt]

dang...

[stable mantle]

@timber jewel are you trying to animate the hoodie going up when either string is pulled, and by X amount?

[timber jewel]

yes

it works exactly how I wanted it now

[stable mantle]

So you found a solution. OK

I don't need to play more :P

I did get essentially value comparison though via blend tree, which is cool to know.

[timber jewel]

yup, it works great

[stable mantle]

Oh good.

So Blend Trees still work, I was on the right track anyhow.

[timber jewel]

👍

[stable mantle]

Blend trees are super powerful.

[timber jewel]

oh no

[stable mantle]

I just remembered I had to export blend trees to asset using a script in order to nest blend-trees. FYI.
—
(The SDK had Blend Tree assets I could use in place of animations, and my brain went "how do I do that for my own blend trees?")

[timber jewel]

okay, it's fine, everything was saved

[stable mantle]

Whew

[dusty canopy]

Hey how do I get out of the beta if the set to live Uninstall reinstall thing doesn't work

[stable mantle]

Are you on Quest? And using the quest version?

[dusty canopy]

Yea

[dusty canopy]

^

[stable mantle]

It can take up to an hour before your Quest registers the change, worst case.

Uninstall VRChat and wait.

[dusty canopy]

I don't think that's it because when I try to reinstall after doing it the whole app won't even install

[stable mantle]

For whatever reason, the Quest caches what betas its part of, so its up to whenever you Quest "syncs" with Meta's servers that it puts you back in live.

[stable mantle]

Just leave it uninstalled and wait an hour. Trust me, it can be weird.

[dusty canopy]

I've done that left it for a day before

[stable mantle]

If its still broken after an hour uninstalled, then it will be cause for concern.

[stable mantle]

Yeah it can get extreme. I had to do that with the Quest Camera beta.

Do you have a developer unlocked Quest with access to ADB.

[dusty canopy]

Yea

[timber jewel]

random question, is the stratch / pose position of bones send to people who joind after they have been positioned?

[stable mantle]

Hrmmm. Id share the APK for the main branch, since I backed mine up before going to the beta (ADB can downgrade apps), but its too big for Discord and I feel like its not cool to share the apk elsewhere.

[dusty canopy]

Um that would work but u would have to find a place to send it but if u dont wanna do that I totally get it

[stable mantle]

Yeah I don't think VRC would be happy with me "distributing" the apk outside the store beyond a private message.

[dusty canopy]

Ok that kinda sucks but its fine I guess

You would think there would be a way to just switch back but its meta and most of there things are rather um how do u put it "disappointing"

[stable mantle]

For future reference, I recommend using SideQuest to backup the APK before trying betas, that way its a simple adb install -r -d [APK File] from the terminal or command line.

(SideQuest can't downgrade apps, but you can perform a streamed downgrade with ADB directly.)

[dusty canopy]

No im just not gonna enter betas anymore in general they are a waste of time just wait for the update unless u plan on creating something

[stable mantle]

It's good to be able to get avatars "PhysBone Ready" tbh. And some betas are network compatible.

Its just Meta's handling of betas is a bit... weird.

IDK why the Quest doesn't check the store for its update branch. There's no auto-update either.

[dusty canopy]

Yea ig are there any ways of getting the last updates apks

[celest cloak]

Will open beta be ending soon?

[shadow chasm]

Isn't that the million dollar question

[dusty canopy]

We are all waiting

[muted brook]

They should put in inside colliders before they put it in live

[dusty canopy]

I just wanna be able to join people again 😪

[warm cedar]

Just imagine the update rolling out today or tomorrow, It's not ready yet in any form imo

[celest cloak]

Same😞

[muted brook]

Can just play on live

[celest cloak]

Ik but it’s stuck

I can’t get out

[warm cedar]

Auto-conversion will annoy 90% of players, most avatars aren't ready yet, (still) no constraints on quest, etc..

[muted brook]

Did you read the announcements

[celest cloak]

Not yet but I’ll look

[stable mantle]

I'll put it on the Internet Archive.

It won't be the most recent but it will be 2022.1.1

[dusty canopy]

So will it be able to join others

[celest cloak]

Ima try switching out now and seeing if it works

[muted brook]

Read the announcements

[dusty canopy]

That doesn't work

[muted brook]

Factory reset

[dusty canopy]

That doesn't work

[muted brook]

Then ya didn't factory reset properly

[dusty canopy]

Nope I did i did it from my headset I got into the one menu by holding power and volume and selected factory reset

[dusty canopy]

Can u dm the link please

[stable mantle]

Yes. I currently use it.

[stable mantle]

Its a known issue where your account, on the back end, can get "stuck" on the beta branch, even though you switched branches in the Store UI.

If the Meta servers on the backend still think they're on the beta branch there's nothing they can do.

[celest cloak]

Will it change back when open beta is done?

[stable mantle]

They were asking about the release build I backed up. Not the beta.

[stable mantle]

Yes. The store will force you onto the main branch if the beta branch is closed.

[celest cloak]

Ok Ty

I thought I would be stuck permanently

[stable mantle]

A funny side effect is if you don't leave the beta branch before then, sometimes you'll be forced back onto it if a new beta comes out. Meta is weird. So if the beta nears release, its best to exit the beta.

[timber jewel]

Hey @timber plinth so Phys Bones now work without any problems on humanoid bones?
https://twitter.com/wunderwulfe/status/1505670540836712448
I saw it in the patch notes but wasn't completely sure that it now 100% works

Wunder Wulfe (@wunderwulfe)

#avatardynamics #VRChat
Bendable Bender

▶ Play video

Twitter · Mar 20, 2022, 10:20 PM

[timber plinth]

idk, it always worked on arms and legs

[timber jewel]

interesting

[timber plinth]

i never used it on the hips or chest or anything

but posing is wonky

thats why i made it optional in the av3 menu

[timber jewel]

ah nice

[timber plinth]

the funny thing also is

[warm cedar]

the quest version looks a bit scuffed (per usual)

[timber plinth]

the physbones affect actual IK

so if you grab someones physbones

[timber jewel]

in what way?

[timber plinth]

and someone grabs your arm

it will move both at the same time

[timber jewel]

lol

[timber plinth]

make sure to enable IsAnimated though

or else it might not work

[timber jewel]

makes sense

[celest cloak]

The thing is I want to but everything I have tried failed I tried factory restarting the headset, downloading and re-downloading VR chat multiple times, is there anything else I can do?

[stable mantle]

https://archive.org/details/vrchat-quest-2022-1-1-apk

To any moderators, this is the stock client, as provided by the Oculus/Meta store. This was backed up from a Quest unit, and submitted to the Internet Archive as a means of providing alternate recourse for restoring Quest units to the Live Branch 2022.1.1 update. There are no modifications, changes, or alterations made to this APK, and it is provided in the state it was found from the oculus store.

To anyone with a developer unlocked Quest, you can either:

• Uninstall VRChat and sideload the release version
• Use ADB to downgrade the application to release via adb install -r -d "[path to APK file]"

[stable mantle]

If you have an unlocked Quest you can use that.

If not try switching in and out of the beta again then wait an hour or a day before installing.

[celest cloak]

Ok Ty I will try the uninstalling thing because my headset is not unlocked

[stable mantle]

I wish Meta didn't make this all a necessity.

[celest cloak]

Yeah it’s a lil annoying ngl

[timber jewel]

yeah idk why their stupid update system just goes like "Oh you have a newer version installed then I have, great just stay that way"

[celest cloak]

Yeah I have been stuck for a week now

[timber jewel]

well, at least you can use Avatar Dynamics I suppose xD

[stable mantle]

That's not the big issue — The issue is for people who leave the beta branch in the store and even reset their Quest, and yet Meta is still like "Oh you're a beta user, here's the beta".

Like, that shouldn't happen. The store on your phone or PC will even say you're in the live branch.

But whatever communicates with the Quest stills says otherwise.

It makes sense it wont downgrade existing installs as with Android you can only do that via ADB. Not on-device.

It once took me about 24 - 48 hours for my Quest to understand it wasn't on the beta anymore.

Now I just make backups before installing them, like above, and downgrade.

Downgrading also keeps all your settings as user data. Why VRChat will insist on the tutorial and changing my avatar every time I reinstall is beyond me.

[coarse dock]

When is beta coming to live ?

[stable mantle]

—
Hmmm. You think PhysBones will provide anything similar for "flying avatars".

[stable mantle]

When they announce it.

Unless they give a timeframe in #open-beta-announcements or #open-beta-info it's "up in the air".

[stable mantle]

Im asking cause that's one thing PC avatars still can do that Quest can't.

[wraith storm]

This is going to sound extremely dumb, but uh. How can you do the beta thingy?

[stable mantle]

#open-beta-info

#open-beta-info message

[wraith storm]

Its confusing to download on quest

[coarse dock]

Do you think there going to announce soon ?

[stable mantle]

Follow the steps in the message I linked. You log in to the Oculus website, visit the store page, click the version number, and switch to the beta.

After a while your Quest will tell you there's an update.

[coarse dock]

Ik how to get to it

[stable mantle]

The current beta is not network compatible so you can't play with people on Live versions.

[stable mantle]

I wasn't talking to you.

[coarse dock]

Sorry

[outer python]

right like have a flag that goes off for the account not the instance of install when its done

or oh say if the persons trust rank is user or higher just have it skip with the option to manually start it if needed

[urban salmon]

I tried both.

[stable mantle]

You have the avatar descriptor on your avatar, and the object you're testing is set to receive contacts from the same category you're testing right? And you manually applied the animation controller of the layer you're testing to the avatar's animator property?

[neat valley]

Why are some of the bones not showing???

[drowsy reef]

@timber jewel did you need to fix the blep and eye close animations for the rex?

the two blend trees in the gesture right and left

[wooden furnace]

when will open beta be over

[urban salmon]

Yessir.

[hollow hatch]

when the team deems it ready for live release

[main elbow]

Is someone able to help with creating avatars on the new sdk?

[upbeat obsidian]

so I got the open beta sdk and imported it, but as soon as I did, my inspector thing just blacked out so now I can't close it or open a new one- help?

[main elbow]

Floaty boi I have the sdk too but that hasn't happened to me. Do you have two sdks installed maybe? Also I guess try to check if you have the latest beta sdk which is the 2022.03.18.16.13 public sdk

[upbeat obsidian]

ooh yeah that's probably why hold on

[cursive bridge]

Does anyone know if they intend to let us animate physbone properties on the fly? The canny says tracked internally but not that they’re working on it.

Basically EVERY cool thing I want to do, I either have to use multiple copies of my physbone chain, each with the properties I need, or just change the properties of one chain on the fly. I don’t know which is more performance intensive

If it’s genuinely cheaper in terms of perf to have multiple physbone chains, versus one that changes, I’ll just give over waiting and set up my stuff with multi.

[mossy python]

What happens if you try to use an avatar without a Live blueprint on Live?

Does it just say avatar unavailable I assume?

[cursive bridge]

Someone was saying that maybe allowing us to animate physbone properties “at runtime” might be “too expensive” (in the context of attempting to animate changing Gravity) but I don’t know anything about it at all…

So I guess my real question is, does anyone know whether it’s worse to have three or four copies of a physbone chain running at once, or to have only one, but animate its properties changing?

[sour epoch]

I haven't tried myself, but I believe if you change the settings then disable/reenable it, it will apply the settings

[cursive bridge]

I tried to have frames that disabled and enabled within my animations

it didn’t work

Like, I began my animations that changed the properties with a couple frames disabling and reenabling them. No effect (for me) 8(

[muted bloom]

Actually spheres/cylenders (and capsules) are very quick to calculate. a finite flat square is more complicated

[cursive bridge]

Would I need to have fully a separate animation JUST for disabling and another for changing the properties and another for reenabling?

[muted bloom]

For example, spheres are just a simple distance check

[cursive bridge]

Leaving the physbones running is important for my setup to remain smooth (constraint stuff using the physbones for reference).

Though I guess I could pad out the enable/disable stuff with some wait time before the constraints actually swapped.

The other thing that’s irritating is there’s a demo avatar that appears to have fully, smoothly animated properties on its physbone chain… only Gravity clearly has to enable/disable on it iirc. But I can’t get other stuff like Pull to change on the fly ):

[delicate canopy]

Trying to do physics using the new VRC Phys Bone system. Things look great in the editor when I press play and move the avatar around, but the behavior is completely different in-game.

[visual jay]

:

[upbeat obsidian]

hey, how can i fix this?

i don't want to delete so many of my transforms :/

[restive tapir]

Im trying to upload my avatar to quest and in the menu when i click upload, doent let me and this show up, not sure if its a particular bug or something work upload to the canny

[mossy python]

So does anyone know what happens when you use an avatar you uploaded to the beta on Live?

[restive tapir]

works like normal except the new stuff, well doesnt exist yet

[mossy python]

So if you uploaded it on Beta first, and go back to live, it will just be as you initially uploaded it minus the PhysBone/Contact components?

[stable mantle]

Beta avatars are backwards compatible. My fallback was built 100% on the beta SDK but works with live.

Anything compatible with the live version will operate and anything that uses Avatar Dynamics will just be non-functional.

[stable mantle]

Still less performant and accurate than 50+ sphere colliders just between 2 props?

[restive tapir]

yes

[stable mantle]

@muted bloom as exhibit A for what I speak of, I'm replying to my own message.

[muted bloom]

hard to say, spheres are crasy optimized though it is just a distance check

[main elbow]

I'm trying to create a boop trigger on my avatar on the new sdk but whenever do this it breaks all of my other facial gestures. Does anyone know how to fix this?

[restive tapir]

is it normal that the SDK doesnt select whats causing the error?

[restive tapir]

regarding this i just deleted the blueprint

[muted bloom]

normal yes

[surreal pier]

It's pretty obvious whats the issue

[restive tapir]

yes but i have a lot of stuff i i dont find something that i missed

[surreal pier]

go through your materials...

[stable mantle]

Why can't a simple distance check be done for a square or flat surface? My brain keeps saying "round" is more complex to calculate than flat, seeing as with meshes, the smoother and more detailed they are, the more complex they are to render.

[surreal pier]

sphere is just one dimension, with a flat surface you have to calculate 3 dimensions

or two, I guess it depends

[stable mantle]

Oh so you're saying it's basically doing the same exact calculation every time because it's round.

[surreal pier]

exactly, it just looks how far away it is, thats it

[stable mantle]

Except for the edges in the case of cylinders.

[surreal pier]

yes, but that is also simpler then a flat plane

[stable mantle]

Couldn't an optimized method for finite planes be done still in a similar manner?

Do the same thing, only instead of distance to center it's distance to point? For angular calculations, cheat and just create a number which gets added or multiplied every X from the center?

[surreal pier]

I don't know, you can give it a try ;)

[stable mantle]

Because even with as optimized as a single cylinder is over a plane, there has to be diminishing returns at some point.

There's no way 50+ cylinders would perform better than 2 optimized planes.

[surreal pier]

probably not, but at that point you may have to ask yourself why you need that ^^

[stable mantle]

If you look at what i replied to it's for a sword. My sword (mesh not pictured) is wide and flat, for optimized reasons.

At the sharpest edge it's literally flat

And it's about as thick as my pinky on the other edge.

Being able to make the swords dynamic would be fun as hell.

But current PhysBone offerings are too excessive for its dimensions.

Despite having all these different prop interactions shown off, Avatar Dynamics fall short for anything that aren't roughly as wide as they are tall, and for props like mine that fall on the extreme end, workarounds are too excessive.

[restive tapir]

i already changed everything to vrc materials and still have the error that is useless not showing me where the exact mesh that is the problem is lol

[surreal pier]

well, you always have issues with edge cases ;)

[stable mantle]

If it's in a prefab then sometimes. Go through each individual component and comb the inspector for materials, even disabled ones.

Disabled objects still count btw.

[stable mantle]

🥁🎺

(Discord doesn't have a trombone emote)

[stable mantle]

I'm not a VRC dev so i don't really think I could btw.

[surreal pier]

well, you can chat with the VRC Team about it ;)

[stable mantle]

👀❔

Brw @restive tapir the beta SDK has been getting confused so sometimes saving and restarting Unity helps.

[restive tapir]

Already changed the problem elemnt, but the thing is why it doesnt show you directly, i mean i forgot that i had a mesh inside a bone in the hand of the avatar

thats why my question was that isnt the sdk showed you where the mesh problem was?

[stable mantle]

Was it disabled per chance? Either the object itself OR even just the mesh renderer component?

I had that happen once which is why I ask — The SDK seems to rely on active components for certain issues, rather than all components in the scene. So it can see that it's attached but it can't select it because it's disabled.

Though i don't know if that was what happened here.

[restive tapir]

no a lot of them where active

maybe its just a one time case because i updated SDKs for the beta updates

[warm cedar]

Al4ight, adding a trombone to my avatar, you can't stop me

[stable mantle]

PC version needs an avatar dynamic feature to play "womp womp womp woooooooomp" when you slide it.

Hold on

If infinite planes ARE viable, as they're only checking distance on one axis…

Why can't there just be a "boundary" in local space.

—
In essence, it's doing the same math as an infinite plane, but if the contact in question is outside the "boundary" it's ignored.

—
You'd be "cheating" a finite plane whilst using up the full resources of an infinite plane (it'd still be checking well outside its boundary), but it wouldn't, in theory be using any more resources, realistically, than an infinite plane.

It'd be a simple "if contact is not outside range" check, hypothetically speaking.

—
Likewise, planes as contact senders/receivers is already tracked internally if I'm not mistaken.

If those were infinite, that would cause a LOT of problems for other avatars with dynamics in the vicinity. An infinite plane contact sender would be able to trigger contact from a large distance away, and vice versa for a receiver.

🤔

@surreal pier what do you think? Seeing as you have thoughts on this too.

[surreal pier]

it would cause issues if its infinite

also on longer distances you get inaccuracies, jitter, etc

because of floating point precision

[stable mantle]

Like, if plane contacts are being considered, that seems to almost imply that they're considering finite plane colliders almost by happenstance, yeah?

[surreal pier]

dunno? maybe?

I'm busy atm >.>

[stable mantle]

That's fair. I'm not up for long, it's late for me i just woke up with brain energy needing to be spent.

You replied to my comments about colliders as did others.

Brain go brrrrr.

https://tenor.com/view/big-brain-markiplier-gif-14835823

[warm cedar]

Pc player:
Quest players:

19 audiosources, Jeebus this update is a middle finger to optimisation

[stable mantle]

Can you not just have one audio source and animate the source file property instead?

Or do they each need to be volumetric from their own little special place on the avatar?

[stable mantle]

Could create a janky mesh of the text "womp womp" that appears when you do it.

[warm cedar]

And use ANOTHER material slot?

[stable mantle]

LMAO ikr

My model is a very nice on Quest because of all the performance optimization for props that get dinged by the perf system.

Granted, i can't escape the fact it's 30K tris. But even if I could, I'm punished for doing the right thing.

—
Meanwhile it's medium on PC and just barely at that.

[warm cedar]

meh, as long as quest 1 users don't crash I'm fine with my

[stable mantle]

Same here. And i do have a low poly version thanks to CATS that i slapped a giant 🪶 sign on for anyone who hasn't enabled mine.

[flat patrol]

You could reuse the same but animate the pitch

[warm cedar]

Yes, but, if the audiosource is disabled 75% of the time, I don't see a reason to

[stable mantle]

Haha yeah if each audio source is going to mostly be mutually exclusive then yeah it doesn't make sense to combine them.

The SDK & performance system really need the concept of "props".

My base model is only 18K tris & 4 mats for instance.

[warm cedar]

I have a public version of my avatar, on quest because uwu 18k polys, on pc (Le audiosource)

[warm cedar]

Sadly enough most of the vrchat team are amateurs, so we won't be seeing that for a looooong time

[stable mantle]

I've gotten the impression it's less that they're amateurs and more that they made their bed in Unity and now they have to lie in it.

For example, in order to use asynchronous space warp and other performance enhancements on Quest you have to use 2020+ and the universal render pipeline. Moving VRChat to the URP would break almost every existing shader and world.

Likewise Unity out of the box is not "optimized" — Udon is basically their replacement for scripts, Quest still has audio induced system lag issues, etc.

Unity made sense at the time because it's what others used and it was an easy to grasp framework that let them get something off the ground.

Now VR technology has moved so fast that it'd take considerable overhaul to not make it dated. They're probably busy just trying to plug the leaks and patch the holes with performance and quirks of older Unity versions long since fixed with newer builds.

[molten cobalt]

I suppose it's also helpful to remember that like vrchat got its first release in like 2014

[stable mantle]

E.G. Unity does not offer GPU physics on Android. So for ages you couldn't have avatar physics on Quest, and world physics kick the CPU like a small puppy.

[jaunty sentinel]

TBH, I wouldnt mind redoing worlds in 2022 URP
yeh it sucks that I have to go through all my worlds un upgrade a vrc2 version but I wouldnt mind too much

Just they need to eese players into that, maintain the "Legacy" (current) one for as long as posible but make vrc2020 the defalt branch after a time

[stiff acorn]

It would break EVERYTHING. Everything would have to be reuploaded with new materials.

[stable mantle]

Yup

[molten cobalt]

that would involve permanently deprecating a whole bunch of Worlds that no longer have folks updating them

[stable mantle]

I mean, if there was a way to "fall back" to an old Unity player — that is, embed a "hardened" LTS Unity Player and the modern Unity Player in the same program, and "fallback" to the LTS Player for legacy content, that could work, in the interim.

[stiff acorn]

I do feel that eventually there will end up being a major change that requires everything to be reuploaded. Just not for a LONG time.

[muted brook]

They will Put it off for as long as possible

[stable mantle]

It'd double the file size of VRChat and create a logistical nightmare of determining what SDK a world was built on, and the logistics of how to "seamlessly" fall back to old VRC.

But it'd be best case scenario. Kinda like how some browser had an "IE" mode for old websites.

[molten cobalt]

okay but how would you handle people's avatars

[stable mantle]

True

You'd need 2 versions of every avatar.

[molten cobalt]

like in the in-between time I doubt folks would want to put up with having to upload the Avatar 4 times

and also require two different Unity projects for all of them

[muted brook]

I personally think that once they get to the point of needing to upgrade they should just rip the bandaid off. have it in beta for a couple months so the people who care can update. then push to live

[stable mantle]

I mean they kinda did that from 2018 -> 2019 no?

[stiff acorn]

At that point, it'd be better to try and find a way to convert materials using built-in render pipeline shaders to URP shaders at runtime.

That would only work for standard Unity shaders though, custom shaders would be out of luck.

[stable mantle]

Ironically Quest Avatars would probably be the best off, with fallback shaders.

The game would seamlessly swap shaders at runtime based on the engine used.

Though PC shaders with a defined fallback could also do that too.

[molten cobalt]

hope everybody has proper fall back settings on PC avatars shaders as you're probably going to see that a bunch

[stiff acorn]

It would probably come at a performance cost on content load though. Could be a potential cause of hitching when loading something new.

[stable mantle]

I'd rather an extended load time than something not working.

I'm used to games that made you sit through cut scenes and menu dialogs just so it could load a mission in the background. A couple minutes load time wouldn't hurt.

[stiff acorn]

Yeah, the game already hitches on avatar load on most peoples systems anyways. So it wouldn't make a huge difference.

[stable mantle]

My Quest 2 cries any time someone swaps avatars.

A-aaa-a o-ooo-o E-eee-e etc

[muted brook]

the vast majority of the load time for avis on my system is actually downloading them

[molten cobalt]

me too

[muted brook]

which im pretty sure there is a bottleneck on vrcs size

[stable mantle]

I think that's most people. VRChat's biggest issue for common use is CPU bound tasks (downloading, unpacking, processing, encoding, decoding).

[stiff acorn]

I have 200Mbps download (translates to around 30MB/s). So it usually doesn't take any longer than a few seconds to download something.

I also have a 10th gen Core i7 so...

[stable mantle]

I looked at the Quest's performance inspector from ODH, and in VRChat the CPU cries even alone with no physics.

Get near a pool table at it peaks.

[muted brook]

im getting around 300 nowadays. but for a full lobby it takes around 15-30 seconds to download the avi

[stable mantle]

Note raw download ≠ connection speed to VRC, and 1MB/s = 8 Mbps (Mb/s)

[muted brook]

ya

[stiff acorn]

My safety settings are strict, so the game rarely ever even downloads someone's avatar lol.

I only see my friends avatars.

[stable mantle]

But yeah VRChat has big CPU issues. It's not as noticeable on a good PC because there's buffer; room for overhead.

[muted brook]

I run a 5600x and a 3090. there is definitely some big cpu issues

[stable mantle]

On weaker machines & Quest where you're pressed for space, you suddenly realize that loading an avatar is harder on the performance than the avatar itself.

[stiff acorn]

I'm GPU-bound in most cases, my RX 570 is starting to struggle with modern gaming.

[stable mantle]

40k tris? No problem.

One zippy boi? panik

[stable mantle]

Yeah i can imagine. That's what's hooked up to my Mac, and in bootcamp it barely handles Boneworks.

[muted brook]

every day im thankful i dont bother to make my avi quest compatible

[stiff acorn]

I don't even have VR. I'm talking about desktop performance.

[stable mantle]

Make it Quest compatible just throw caution to the wind and ignore the performance ranking.

My avi is on Quest and performs fine real world.

For most avatars it's as simple as shader swaps and removing unsupported features.

[stiff acorn]

I hold my 90fps cap most of the time, but some worlds and avatars can drop me down quite a bit.

[muted brook]

I really hate having my avi look worse than it could be

[molten cobalt]

my main Avatar pretty much goes medium rank on Quest just with a Shader swap

[stable mantle]

Tbf I've learned that some PC worlds are worse optimized, even if there's Quest versions.

In bitter irony some worlds work better on Quest due to shader optimizations. On PCs some creators have no holds barred.

[stiff acorn]

My avatar needs to be decimated to work on Quest... Around 50k tris.

[muted brook]

my avi is like 71k polys because i need a good bit of polys for my face tracking

[stable mantle]

Fair. Took me forever to figure how to leverage MatCap for a clean cel shaded(?) look.

[stable mantle]

My friend pup has a Quest Avi that's about 60K due to an overly detailed Canine mouth from the base creator.

[molten cobalt]

out of curiosity what kind of MatCap do you use

[stiff acorn]

Avatars that use more realistic shading though... That's where Quest makes them look like crap, cause Standard Lite sucks.

(like mine)

[muted brook]

granted i added a couple outfits so its around 100k polys. But its all on 2 altased materials and 1 fur mat for a tail

[stable mantle]

Top half a feint cream, bottom half dark khaki. Solid.

Oh and a small white oval in the top half, for a reflection.

[stable mantle]

I've learned to avoid SL and try to do things other ways with texture effects.

I only use SL for emissive materials, since matcap lacks emission.

[warm cedar]

[stiff acorn]

I wonder if they'll add the ability for desktop players to interact with PhysBones, I'd imagine it would be pretty similar to holding world objects in terms of control. Maybe certain types of avatar triggers too.

[muted brook]

I did it in the most performant way possible. I could have gotten it to run "better" according to vrc's safety settings via blendshapes. But in reality it would end up worse off for performance

[stable mantle]

In theory it'd still work as long as the shaders are Quest compatible and any constraints or audio are tossed.

No one would see it automatically, but people who trust you could choose to look at it.

[warm cedar]

We're all in the zone for an unfair reason

[molten cobalt]

and I might suggest making a quest compatible fallback that only has one outfit for everybody else who doesn't click show Avatar

[warm cedar]

unless you're some cringe script kid modifying the sdk, fuck those idiots

[muted brook]

i held off being a very poor for years. But eventually, i just had to make a switch

I never go to quest worlds. so i dont really got a point

[stable mantle]

Same. I have an outfit swap, 2 swords, and an overcoat. I could've shoved those into a single mesh and atlased textures and combined materials, used blendshapes. But that'd be hella worse on performance and it'd still be 10k over

[muted brook]

ya

[stable mantle]

Eh with their avatar a fallback would be hard unless they're capable of redoing the topology and rebuilding the mesh and blend shapes from scratch.

In my limited experience, anything north of 30K tends to decimate poorly when you try to hit 10k, even with CATS.

When you're removing over 2/3 the vertices, it's going to break.

[muted brook]

especially because i cant really decimate any of the actual high poly things because of the 40 blendshapes i use for face tracking

[stable mantle]

Being said, a Quest "functional" version that Quest users can see would be a nice addition in the event you end up playing with people on Quest (it happens).

A lot of worlds are starting to get Quest versions, now.

[molten cobalt]

myself I have a decent amount of friends that are on Quest so I have to consider fallbacks

[muted brook]

ive tried to go into quest worlds. But every time its an absolute disaster. So i just avoid them now

[stable mantle]

I was lucky my base model was only 18K so with some finagling I got it down to 9900 tris then slapped a fallback logo on it for another 50-ish.

[stable mantle]

Gotta remember worlds are universal is what I meant.

But I get ya. Diminishing returns.

If you're visiting PC only worlds with PC only players, a Quest viewable version wouldn't be seen that often.

[muted brook]

my main world is the pug. so ya

[stable mantle]

Mine is Fallen Down and I play on Quest a lot. I'm a Q2 owner, and my model IS optimized, even though it's . So I tend to put care into making sure it at least shows up in Quest.

[warm cedar]

Not for long, I'm just waiting on the day they remove VP on quest lol

still just being thought about in the team, but it's stipl a posibility

[muted brook]

all i truly want is more synced params to work with. and a faster update rate

[warm cedar]

The update after AD, should be a revamp of the performance system

[muted brook]

Im using around 60 different params at the moment sitting around 110 ish bits. But i need a lot more for haptics stuff im working on

[stable mantle]

Oh good god no. That's the day I'll quit VRChat.

I've experienced first hand How little a difference fallback vs can make. It'd only be relevant for, like, those new 100 people lobbies.

[stiff acorn]

They said that they DO plan on removing avatars from Quest.

[stable mantle]

Purportedly

Everyone I've talked to hasn't heard anything official in years, and it's all based on a single line in a years old Help document which is stupidly out of date.

[stiff acorn]

Though, I specifically heard avatars in public avatar worlds on Quest. Not sure if they are going to block uploads outright for private use.

[muted brook]

usually they only increase what you can use, not decrease it.

there would be a riot if they got rid of vp

[stable mantle]

The way it is now is serviceable. Most the I've encountered have no real difference in performance to fallbacks, with rare exception.

And are always blocked on Quest. You have to manually override Safety settings per user to see them.

—
So getting rid of them would solve nothing and block a lot of people out of using otherwise functional avatars on Quest.

[warm cedar]

does "show avatar" save? or is it a constant unbloc

[stiff acorn]

It does save.

[stable mantle]

Per user. So if I unblock you, it's unblocked even after reload or avatar swap. But if I don't unlock @stiff acorn for example they will still be blocked.

In essence, it puts the question "do you trust the user wearing the avatar enough to show it" to the user.

[warm cedar]

I'd love to see a quest user's profile and check the "show avatar" part

[stable mantle]

It's not in your profile; it's in the quick actions menu as part of launch pad. PC has it too, btw, just most never need to use it.

[warm cedar]

No on the website

the number of people he has shown

[stable mantle]

I didn't think it showed that.

[stiff acorn]

Quest players can't even see my main avatar lol. Like I said, it needs a LOT of work. So I have a fallback of one of my other and more optimized avatars for Quest players to see instead.

I don't have a Quest version of it.

All of my friends are on PC so there isn't really any incentive to do so.

[warm cedar]

I hate to exclude nicequest users, but advice from client users in bs sometimes

"just use x shader that's verified on quest", If they're verified and so good, Y they ain't in the base sdk?

[stable mantle]

NiceQuest???

[warm cedar]

Cryptofx or something idk, I liked the guy but it sounds shady af

[stable mantle]

Yeah no you can only use the (sorely outdated) VRC official shaders on Quest.

Any other shaders will be stripped, and any modifications to the client or SDK are a violation of the TOS.

I wouldn't want to risk being banned for glitter and particles.

[warm cedar]

Half life modder

this person has quality

#open-beta-info

[stable mantle]

#open-beta-info

[warm cedar]

Ha take that! I was faster! *FEEL THE INFERIORITY!! mahaha

[stable mantle]

Well I used a reply like a civilized goat.

Mnyeh!

[warm cedar]

Blegh, a goat. Luckely I'm a robit

[stable mantle]

Honestly? The amount of times that happens, along with the amount of not-Quest-related support in the Quest channels, and non-dev-related support in the dev channels, is a bit frustrating.

Like I get it, this place is hard. But it literally says in the channel descriptions what each channel is for.

[stable mantle]

Well, goat monster thing. But for simplicity sake i use goat.

[warm cedar]

Mobile users can't read it

[stable mantle]

You can. Just tap the header.

[warm cedar]

Too much work

[stiff acorn]

I keep forgetting Discord mobile exists.

That explains SO many things.

[warm cedar]

if it's more than a swipe it's too much

[stable mantle]

Well you're in luck because it is just a swipe to the left away.

Seriously, you can slide right to left to get to it too.

[warm cedar]

If people remember that it exists

[stable mantle]

Fair

Hmm. Does anyone know exactly how the flying avatar glitch works?

I tried recreating it with physbones and it just made my avi do a Club Penguin dance. 😅

[stiff acorn]

Oddly specific... But not surprising LOL.

[stable mantle]

Was kinda hoping AD would be the ticket to Quest compatible flying avatars.

[stiff acorn]

Flying avatars is something to do with colliders.

[stable mantle]

It was jiggling around so fast that it was just like those two frame dances of wobbling side to side.

[stable mantle]

Yeah that I'm aware. And there are PhysBone colliders.

[stiff acorn]

I don't think those work the same way as regular colliders?

[stable mantle]

But no tutorial actually seems to know how they work on a technical level, and there's no clear path to doing the same with a physbones if possible at all.

[stiff acorn]

No self-collision (in terms of locomotion).

[stable mantle]

What do you mean self collision?

[vivid hatch]

physbones collider won't affect your playercapsule, so i don't think flying will be possible anyway

[stable mantle]

Is it like the collider colliding with itself due to some weird order of operations?

[stiff acorn]

I don't know exactly how it works, but it's some kind of exploit with having a plane collider as a child of your avatar that is constantly self-intersecting with your locomotion collider.

[warm cedar]

Add a physcollider B)

[stable mantle]

Cause it is a glitch. Just seemingly one VRC has "left in".

[warm cedar]

(The joke is they are removed on quest)

[stable mantle]

Yeah Avatar Dynamics is the Quest Friendly collision.

Purportedly it'll replace collision entirely on avatars in the future.

[muted brook]

they need to add inside colliders before that though

[stable mantle]

Inside colliders, finite plane, box, constraints.

PhysBone is definitely targeting the Dynamic Bone crowd currently.

It's also very similar to VRM physics.

[muted brook]

they also need to fix the autoconvert

[warm cedar]

Remove it. just remove the dynamic bones

[muted brook]

it seems to increase the wiggle a ton compared to db

[warm cedar]

remove the shitty eboy avatars

Give people a reason to change

[stable mantle]

Lmao. "You're free. Go on. Be a person."

[stiff acorn]

There is only so much an auto-converter can do. Both systems are so fundamentally different that you can't just copy-paste values and have it work as expected. It would take a LOT of effort to get it anywhere near "good enough".

[muted brook]

that reason to change being that physbones work better. not that it breaks the previous setup

[warm cedar]

No just stop wasting my processing power on your materials, I don't give a shit your glasses have a material for every poly, not an excuse

[stable mantle]

I mean they outright said dynamics bones will be deprecated in the future, and it was always a a paid plugin anyways.

[muted brook]

which is why the autoconvert should be as similar as possible

[stable mantle]

Excuse you my glasses have premium ultra clear lenses.

They're so fine they're Ultra Performant ™️.

And by that i mean there's 0 tris! 😅

[stiff acorn]

Or the multi-million poly models that use vertex colors for textures because the creator couldn't be bothered to learn UV unwrapping.

[muted brook]

ok but glasses with no lenses is kinda sad. its like how in some places people wear braces even though they dont need them

[stable mantle]

IRL yeah. In VR? No one is going to notice unless they're looking for the reflection.

You really only need the frames.

[muted brook]

ive worn glasses all my life. so its pretty noticeable

[stable mantle]

Performance wise.

[stable mantle]

Same.

But all glasses I've encountered in VR have no lenses.

Then again i play on Quest and you can't use transparency on avatars there.

[muted brook]

ive encounted some with actual lenses, and they look really nice

pc is another story

[stable mantle]

I imagine.

[stiff acorn]

Transparency is expensive mate.

[stable mantle]

Though it does take up more resources.

Yeah

You get the same exact aesthetics.

[muted brook]

similar. not the exact same

[stable mantle]

Just you don't get the specular reflection outdoors.

[stable mantle]

Aesthetics not detail.

I consider those separate.

Like UX vs UI

[stiff acorn]

I'd argue aesthetics are more important than detail.

[muted brook]

consider it part of the immersion

[stable mantle]

Immersion is good but this is 2022 and GPUs cost more than a used car.

[muted brook]

i take a darwinian approach to compute power

[stable mantle]

Quest has exploded during the pandemic for the sheer fact that it's the only console based affordable headset.

[deep needle]

It's also the most affordable PC VR headset as well

[stable mantle]

Yup. It's a Rift S but better

[muted brook]

well ya. it came out after

[stiff acorn]

Personally though, if I ever get a VR setup I'd rather buy a used HTC Vive over a Quest just because I hate Facebook.

[deep needle]

With the added plus of Air Link without having to use a god-awful cord

[muted brook]

id hope an iphone 14 is better than an iphone 10

[molten cobalt]

so yeah probably time for folks to brush up on stylized rendering approaches that don't require expensive rendering

like Wind Waker still looks pretty good even though it's a twenty-year-old game

[stable mantle]

This is why i like the MatCap so much.

I can get Wind Waker or BotW like shading, at half the cost.

Until someone showed me how it worked i thought MatCap was useless.

[deep needle]

From what I've heard, I don't think the HTC Vive has aged too well. Right now the main two competitors still in the running seem to be Valve Index and, of course, Oculus Quest.

[molten cobalt]

nice

[stable mantle]

If you ONLY want to do PCVR and want to avoid Meta, then yea go used. But until someone seriously contends with them, the Quest is the only reasonable option on the market today for budget VR.

[stiff acorn]

I don't care if it hasn't aged well. I refuse to buy any Meta product, and I'd never be able to afford an Index.

[muted brook]

not many companies can compete with almost a trillion dollar company

[deep needle]

True

[stable mantle]

Tbf many tried but they gave up half way.

The Quest is based on the Go which was standalone Samsung Gear VR.

There's an evolutionary tree there.

[stiff acorn]

I have a friend who has the OG Vive and he says the experience is pretty good aside from the Vive Wands being garbage.

[muted brook]

what i always find funny when people suggest that valve should make a $300 hmd is that fb last year almost spent valve's entire net worth in losses on quest subsidies

[deep needle]

Even the vast majority of Meta's users hate Meta with a passion. Sadly, they're leading in technology though.

[stable mantle]

Yup

When no one wants to compete with you you have a captive audience.

I didn't get a Quest because I liked them.

[muted brook]

no one can compete with them. outside of like 3 companies

[stable mantle]

No one wants to.

[molten cobalt]

and Amazon Google and Microsoft don't have much interest in VR at the moment

[stable mantle]

VR outside of select companies is seen as this niche gamer product.

[muted brook]

no. unless you are a megacorp, you literally do not have the funds to sell at that much of a loss

[stable mantle]

Meta is the only one pushing it as an every day consumer item.

[molten cobalt]

like the rest of the companies don't require VR to be their Lifeboat from hitting Market saturation

like Facebook ran out of new customers so they need to invent a new market to keep growing

[muted brook]

the whole meta thing is facebook trying not to die as a company

[stable mantle]

Heck Microsoft announced HoloLens only for its new CEO to relegate it to an enterprise device for corporations, and rebranded Windows Holographic to Windows Mixed Reality so it could be used with existing VR sets.

[stiff acorn]

That's another thing, I don't want to buy something that WILL eventually become a brick when the login servers die.

[stable mantle]

It's them trying to escape anti trust like Google did.

(Google is technically a subsidiary of Alphabet now)

[muted brook]

they didnt create a parent company, they just renamed it

[deep needle]

Man, one of my biggest fears with Meta is that, once their "Metaverse" releases, they'll sabotage VR Chat in an instant. It's exactly the kind of scummy practice I could see Meta doing to remove any competition. They're already trying to claim they're the first, and they haven't even released anything of note yet.

[muted brook]

of course they will. they have done it already with several other companies

[stable mantle]

No they created a parent company. Google is an LLC owned by Alphabet Incorporated.

[muted brook]

im talking about facebook

[stable mantle]

It's already out to scathing reviews. Facebook Horizons.

[muted brook]

i know that alphabet is the parent company. i invested in them

[stable mantle]

Or at least, some of the horizons stuff is out.

Horizons Home isn't out yet.

[deep needle]

Yeah, but I mean once they fully develop their full vision. Hopefully the bad reception of Horizons will turn them away, though.

[stiff acorn]

I don't see that happening. VRChat has too big of a following, they'd have to outdo VRChat in terms of features to do any reasonable damage.

[muted brook]

wouldnt be the first time a big entity gets killed off by a larger one

[molten cobalt]

watching the press conference Zuckerberg mentioned it would probably take like 10 years to make the metaverse that he wants

[stable mantle]

And it's not even a good one.

[deep needle]

Yeah, but this is also Facebook/Meta we're talking about here. They'll get what they want no matter what, and they'll do it ruthlessly.

[stiff acorn]

The reason VRC is so popular is because of community-generated content. And I don't think whatever Meta could come up with would be able to compete very much in that front with how strict their moderation is.

[muted brook]

their moderation is the opposite of strict

[stable mantle]

Oh, yeah. Facebook is a "brand" now under them. A division.

But it still works. If they're ordered to "break up Facebook", they can spin off Facebook and Insta, keep the rest.

[muted brook]

facebook is their money maker. they spin that off they dont have funds

[molten cobalt]

WhatsApp is also the most used chat application in the world

[muted brook]

it doesnt make that much money

not compared to fb

[deep needle]

Which is weird, because I've never heard of anybody actually using WhatsApp

[muted brook]

ive only really seen it used in 3rd world countries

[molten cobalt]

apparently two billion people use WhatsApp

[stable mantle]

Globally WhatsApp is bigger than Facebook.

[stiff acorn]

Oh hey, this is #open-beta-discussion... Inb4 Tupper yells at us.

[stable mantle]

lol the conversation has segwayed so much youd swear it was named "Paul Blart"

[muted brook]

fb has 2.8b monthly users

[molten cobalt]

which is kind of why they hit the ceiling of no new users have joined recently

[muted brook]

young people dont use fb

[stable mantle]

Back to physbone flying. Do you think if i put a PhysBone on the root avatar and a child collider, i could somehow work it out?

[deep needle]

Yeah, no one really uses Facebook all that much anymore.

[molten cobalt]

and for reference 4.6 billion people use the internet

[deep needle]

Just old people who haven't moved on

[muted brook]

also why they require quest users to use fb. it hopefully adds them to the ecosystem

[muted brook]

think its theoretically possible.

[stable mantle]

The question is does it move just the avatar or your vision too?

[deep needle]

Hey guys, remember when Meta promised that we would no longer need a Facebook account in the near future? Haha, me too.

[muted brook]

really hope no one believed them

best case senario, they would require a "meta" login, which is exactly the same

[stable mantle]

That's because Oculus accounts are now Meta accounts. Purportedly that's coming later this year with Horizons Home.

[stable mantle]

I'm fuzzy on how the root avatar container works tbh.

[muted brook]

I havent done much experimenting on avatar dynamics so i cant say

[stable mantle]

I've been playing around a bit. Making a staples button was fun(ny).

Sadly textmeshes can't be turned into a normal mesh.

And animating the root doesn't change your position.

[deep needle]

Anyway, back on topic. Man are these dynamics a game-changer. Such a seemingly small thing, but it makes avatars so much more fun, and it opens up a ton of possibilities.

[stable mantle]

Yeee. I already got my ears, Tail, cape, and hair rigged up.

Even got boop to blush.

[muted brook]

cant wait to add more wiggly stuff to my avi

but i also need more params because i want to add haptics

[stable mantle]

I still want to have them finite planes for my swords.

[deep needle]

Yep. I've just been using my normal avatars that happen to have the correct bones, but being able to move ears and tails is really neat.

[muted brook]

oh, mesh colliders would be nice also

[molten cobalt]

very nice

[deep needle]

Some avatars get all messed up and crippled by the dynamics though, lol.

[muted brook]

also do we got ovoid colliders?

[stable mantle]

Sadly it takes up an extra material slot. You can't do shader trickery on Quest, nor animate textures, so I had to separate my head mesh and animate a material swap.

[stable mantle]

Probably ones where there's dynamic bones being used in an unexpected way.