#world-optimization | VRChat | Page 20

cold prairie Dec 4, 2020, 10:57 PM

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Oh you mean avatar sounds? I was assuming people speaking.

lilac saddle Dec 4, 2020, 10:57 PM

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Yes, avatar sounds should match maximum speaking distance so that it doesn't go to a max of 500 meters.

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I saw the default logarithmic roll off is set to max 500meters.

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As soon as I saw that I lowered it to like 20 meters.

quick coral Dec 4, 2020, 11:14 PM

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Quick question: does this material limit apply to all worlds?
https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/submitting-a-world-to-be-made-public
A friend and I are debating on if it does or it only applies to avatars on pedestals in worlds.

VRChat

World Creation, Optimization, and Community Labs Tips

Want to make your world public? You've come to the right place. There's a few things you should take into consideration before submitting your world to Community Labs. Make sure you read all of this! Failure to do so may result in your world being taken down, or never leaving Community Labs! If your...

cold prairie Dec 4, 2020, 11:21 PM

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If any avatars are taken down it usually comes from reports which usually come from avatars that visibly drop your fps

quick coral Dec 4, 2020, 11:34 PM

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Like if we create just one big world for people to visit and there are no pedestals, is there a mat limit?

cold prairie Dec 4, 2020, 11:35 PM

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Oh you mean like that

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I mean there isn't really a material limit for worlds but ofcourse if your world lags everyone out it will most likely be taken private

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Performance is the real concern not the amount of materials

quick coral Dec 5, 2020, 12:02 AM

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Thanks

midnight hornet Dec 5, 2020, 10:22 AM

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So does anyone have recommendations of a scene size detector? Like being able to see the size of world instead of just seeing it in vrchat while loading the map

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I bought one but it doesnt seem to work.

versed lichen Dec 5, 2020, 11:47 AM

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World toolkit

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pinned in channel

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@midnight hornet

lilac saddle Dec 5, 2020, 5:23 PM

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Is there a way to do sound proofing other than making the map bigger? Maybe there should be an option in the SDK for a sound sphere that blocks outside sounds and blocks sound from exiting said sound sphere. Not in Udon, I mean just as part of the SDK.

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It would override maximum distance of sounds from an avatar so that only people in that room can hear the sound or the player's voice.

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Would it be possible to add a sound optimization tool like like that as part of the SDK some day?

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Is it possible to make an invisible box where it's not possible to drop portals in a certain place in a map like in staircases for example? Like a message box could pop up saying "Can't place portal here." or something.

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Cause someone dropped a portal in a narrow staircase as I was walking upstairs once.

torn crypt Dec 5, 2020, 6:27 PM

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lilac saddle Is there a way to do sound proofing other than making the map bigger? Maybe ther...

You can use the Player Audio Override to change voice distance, and use triggers + animations to change audio sources when you enter new areas.

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The current spatialization solution already uses a "shoebox-model" to handle limited audio propagation, but you wouldn't really want to use a one-size-fits-all radius to handle audio occlusion. There's solutions that exist that take the environment into account to determine if/how a player should hear an audio source but they aren't (yet) implemented into VRC

lilac saddle Dec 5, 2020, 6:33 PM

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Thanks for the response, I just posted a suggestion for this on the feedback website. All the sphere would do is replace the maximum distance value on all avatars' 3d sounds to a certain number of meters. There would still be leaks but it's better than nothing.

midnight hornet Dec 5, 2020, 10:17 PM

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versed lichen World toolkit

Thanks, Found a great one^^

indigo coral Dec 5, 2020, 11:25 PM

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QUESTION! 🙂 So, I am using a MeshBaker plugin to combine objects for optimization.
I am combining 28 different objects with 9 materials into a Skinned mesh.
Before the bake, I am getting 128 batches and 82 SetPass calls.
After the bake, I am getting 84 batches but 85 SetPass calls!
I am baffled as to why my setpass calls went UP if the batches were so dramatically reduced.
so

why would this happen?
and
am I still increasing performance by doing this, since the batches were cut so much, or am I actually HURTING my performance, since the setpass calls went up?
Anyone know?

versed lichen Dec 5, 2020, 11:29 PM

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can you screenshot the objects in scene ?

indigo coral Dec 5, 2020, 11:39 PM

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sure! so it's 8 Standard shader materials, all glow/glass/or metallic. and one VR particle shader

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📎 Untitled3.png

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📎 Untitled4.png

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📎 Untitled2.png

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📎 Untitled1.png

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I have had amazing results with this plugin before, which is why i'm baffled right now

agile island Dec 6, 2020, 6:31 AM

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I have an issue in my world where players are crashing it by picking up too many objects and piling them up. Is there a good way to resolve this without greatly reducing the number of pickups I have? I thought about changing the physics matrix so pickups can't collide with each other at all, which is not an ideal solution, but I don't think I can actually modify that since its in the project settings. I have the collision type for all the objects set to Discreet, but I have not been able to find a whole lot of information about how this compares with the other modes, Continuous, Continuous Dynamic, and Continuous Speculative in terms of how performant they will be with a hundred rigidbodies in the scene, and in terms of whether or not they will produce physics that are more stable and less inclined to jittering and exploding when too many objects are touching one another. I'm willing to accept slightly poorer performance in general for much more stable physics overall.

agile island Dec 6, 2020, 12:39 PM

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So I ended up testing the Continuous Speculative method this evening in VRChat. In my first test by myself, I noticed that just walking over the cars seemed to be a little less glitchy. And throwing the cars around also seemed to have less glitching when they collided. So I brought a bunch of friends to the world and we threw every car into a giant pit as before... And surprisingly, there were no major issues! The world continued to run normally, with no dramatic drop in framerate or freezing when dozens of cars were piled up. Half as many cars used to cause the physics to blow up. Of course, it wasn't entirely without issues. Speculative collision uses a bounding box that increases in size based on the speed of the object, so trying to throw cars onto this giant pile started to become more difficult because phantom collisions would be detected and the cars would bounce off thin air when thrown onto the pile. The cars also jiggled a bit in the pile but only occasionally would a car shoot out of the pile. And of course players trying to walk on the pile would find themselves yeeted some ways away. But that's fine. I didn't expect perfect physics. Under normal usage, the physics works just fine and if the pile is glitchy, that's fine too so long as it doesn't kill the world. I don't know if the Continuous Dynamic mode would work a bit better or worse than the Speculative in this extreme case, but that might be something worth testing later.

lilac saddle Dec 6, 2020, 1:48 PM

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Pickups can be fairly dodgy in VRChat, i would just disable gravity by using the 'is kinematic' option.

lilac saddle Dec 6, 2020, 4:02 PM

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I'm taking a look at optimising my world and I lack understanding of how light probes impact performance

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📎 unknown.png

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I have an Elevator with a bunch of cubes on each interior edge

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I didn't want them to have lighting baked into them so I unchecked 'Lightmap Static' on the cubes

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however, doing this seems to have caused extra draw calls because each cube is affected by a different set of light probes

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the cubes and the light probes don't move so this is obv a totally unnecessary performance cost

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Should I be checking Lightmap Static but then unticking Lightmap Static on the component to avoid this?

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that makes no sense wew

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📎 unknown.png

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i guess these are the same

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How do I make it so that they aren't causing more draw calls based on the objects using different light probes, considering that these objects are static, without including them in the lightmap?

lilac saddle Dec 6, 2020, 5:51 PM

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Tons of meshes are causing extra draw calls because they are lit by a different light probe

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some of them don't even need lighting because the meshes themselves are a light

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]

📎 unknown.png

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ton of draw calls where 1 max is needed

agile hawk Dec 6, 2020, 8:54 PM

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Objects with different material/lighting properties can't be batched together in Unity. Since they have different light probes they have different properties, therefore, can't be batched. At least in forward rendering.

cold prairie Dec 6, 2020, 9:04 PM

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Could always just set the anchor override be same

lilac saddle Dec 7, 2020, 12:15 AM

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oh right, i had it in my head that the anchor override was for reflections-

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i'd rather the reflection probes were correct but for this issue i might do it anyway, thanks

lilac saddle Dec 7, 2020, 1:19 AM

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i've updated things and the batches number is down but overall the performance is still quite bad

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📎 unknown.png

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what would be the best way to quickly learn how to optimise unity scenes? I don't need to know everything, nor all the technical aspects, but I'd like to make worlds that have great performance

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one of my other maps is twice as performant as this one

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i'm checking the performance optimization basics but i want to do a lot better

versed lichen Dec 7, 2020, 1:27 AM

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i don't know how performance could be bad with this low batches/draw calls tbh

cold prairie Dec 7, 2020, 1:27 AM

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Have you checked your output log while in game?

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Once before when I spent a while trying to help someone optimize their world we got the batches down from 500 to 40 or so but it was still lagging we noticed that their output log was getting spammed to hell and was the only cause of the lag

winged sinew Dec 7, 2020, 1:29 AM

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@lilac saddle Did you try

setting an anchor override on the cubes to override their light probe sampling position
setting lightmap static, then setting lightmap scale on the cubes to 0

lilac saddle Dec 7, 2020, 1:31 AM

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i tried both (for the light fixtures in the ceiling) - i tried lightmap static + lightmap scale 0 but it didn't work and still relied on light probes. I then did the anchor override and that seems to have brought the batches down a bit but ye

winged sinew Dec 7, 2020, 1:31 AM

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Are all your materials using parallax?

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Unity parallax is cheap and nasty but it's still slow

lilac saddle Dec 7, 2020, 1:32 AM

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idk what that is

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also Ruuubick and 1 I'm looking at the CPU main number

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in unity

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my other map is at 2ms

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this one is around 4

winged sinew Dec 7, 2020, 1:34 AM

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Your other SS has this

📎 unknown.png

lilac saddle Dec 7, 2020, 1:36 AM

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i have some materials with height maps

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so i'm guessing yes

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i actually did wonder how much difference shaders made

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idk if using mobile shaders would make much difference

winged sinew Dec 7, 2020, 2:12 AM

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Using mobile shaders is pointless, they cut out too much

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One thing I'd recommend is merging your property textures together. i.e. combining metallic, smoothness, and AO maps. I have a tool for that included in Simple Lazy Triplanar https://s-ilent.booth.pm/items/2552376 which generates a texture you can plug into normal Standard for all 3 slots

lilac saddle Dec 7, 2020, 3:10 AM

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neat, i'll check it out ty

tough bolt Dec 8, 2020, 9:37 AM

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what am I doing wrong here?

📎 unknown.png

versed lichen Dec 8, 2020, 9:46 AM

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Making a world with three mirrors enabled by default

tough bolt Dec 8, 2020, 9:52 AM

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oh

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I see

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my dream of making a world with 1000 mirrors is now shattered 🥁

tranquil zephyr Dec 8, 2020, 9:56 AM

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there will be no hall of mirrors xD

tough bolt Dec 8, 2020, 9:56 AM

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still can't do it with 3

tranquil zephyr Dec 8, 2020, 9:57 AM

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wait people still use the word like that...?

tough bolt Dec 8, 2020, 9:57 AM

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tranquil zephyr wait people still use the word like that...?

what year is it?

tranquil zephyr Dec 8, 2020, 9:57 AM

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2020 afaik

tough bolt Dec 8, 2020, 9:58 AM

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ummm... then I'll say...
"this is very yaoi"

tranquil zephyr Dec 8, 2020, 9:58 AM

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:/

tough bolt Dec 8, 2020, 10:03 AM

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can't.

📎 unknown.png

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help

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this is very Yaoi

shrewd harbor Dec 8, 2020, 2:07 PM

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SDK --> Settings --> Uncheck future proof world if you haven't already

autumn glade Dec 8, 2020, 11:05 PM

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trying to plan a quest compatable world that can potentially hold 30-40 people for a community event. Do occlussion portals stop avatar rendering , or does render distance on main camera affect avatar rendering distance? I guess I could also make the rooms 5 miles away from each other if distances avatar rendering, etc. basically, what stops other players from rendering?

merry plinth Dec 9, 2020, 12:48 AM

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📎 VR_Chat_SDK_Help_Unity_World_Creator.PNG

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so myVRChat SDK tab is not appearing next to my inspector tab. Thus not allowing me to build my world and test it. There to seems to be some issue with the SDK Builder in which it' ssaying some menu item already exists with that name in the error log

cold prairie Dec 9, 2020, 12:53 AM

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So you don't see this button?

📎 unknown.png

cold prairie Dec 9, 2020, 12:54 AM

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autumn glade trying to plan a quest compatable world that can potentially hold 30-40 people f...

Occlusion does stop avatars from rendering yeah and so does far clip plane, usually nice to have far clip as small as you can possibly for the world in question

merry plinth Dec 9, 2020, 12:56 AM

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cold prairie So you don't see this button?

okay. yes I see it now. sorry haha. my layout was not matching the layout of the poeple's tutorial son youtube. thank you!

cold prairie Dec 9, 2020, 12:56 AM

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Okay

static trail Dec 9, 2020, 6:18 PM

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Anyone know where the "Mine" worlds section has disappeared to? I see it briefly before it updates and disappears.

versed lichen Dec 9, 2020, 6:49 PM

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Can you check your outputlog for any relevant message ?

static trail Dec 9, 2020, 7:20 PM

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Hmmm...

static trail Dec 9, 2020, 7:23 PM

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versed lichen Can you check your outputlog for any relevant message ?

Some 2020.12.09 18:12:51 Error - [Always] The response was null. State: TimedOut
Exception: null
Network Reachability: Reachable via Local Area Network.

2020.12.09 18:12:51 Error - Could not fetch worlds, with error - Response was null.
Network Reachability: Reachable via Local Area Network.

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The only thing that looks related... 🤔

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They actually appeared the last time I relogged... but not the 2 times before that.

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It did a bunch of PLAYLIST GET id=usr_ ... worlds1 private Favourites, etc before that.

versed lichen Dec 9, 2020, 7:26 PM

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Could be vrchat itself at the moment in that case then

static trail Dec 9, 2020, 7:26 PM

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Mm, seems up and down. Probably related to that server thing earlier.

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Similar thing in Unity too... was trying to upload, and it wasn't retrieving the world details from the ID. Just gave me a new world upload instead.

shrewd harbor Dec 10, 2020, 2:17 AM

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Trying to nail down some optimization to get my world size down, but I'm running into some weird issues with compressing textures

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World Debugger build report shows this on 6 textures:

📎 unknown.png

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When one of those textures, in reality is this: (they're all <100KB each)

📎 unknown.png

cold prairie Dec 10, 2020, 2:25 AM

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That's the processed size which can vary greatly from the original file size

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All I'm doing for the build report is reading the data that unity gives me so there should not be much room for failure there

shrewd harbor Dec 10, 2020, 2:29 AM

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Ahh, makes sense. Thanks for the info!

cold prairie Dec 10, 2020, 2:34 AM

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Though what does unity show as their file size in the preview when you select the texture @shrewd harbor

shrewd harbor Dec 10, 2020, 2:34 AM

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It actually doesn't give me a size when those textures are selected

cold prairie Dec 10, 2020, 2:36 AM

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What kind of textures are they?

shrewd harbor Dec 10, 2020, 2:36 AM

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Metallic maps

cold prairie Dec 10, 2020, 2:37 AM

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Alternatively do you have the substance material extension installed because that can hide the size from the preview

shrewd harbor Dec 10, 2020, 2:38 AM

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Ahh, you know what, I do, this was an older world where I did a lot of testing/dicking around in

cold prairie Dec 10, 2020, 2:38 AM

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If you aren't using it remove it from the project if you want to see the sizes in the previews

shrewd harbor Dec 10, 2020, 2:51 AM

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Will do

potent garnet Dec 10, 2020, 5:54 AM

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Hey guys, I have a question for optimization what should I do more beside combine meshes and materials?

versed lichen Dec 10, 2020, 5:57 AM

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Bake lighting

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setup occlusion

potent garnet Dec 10, 2020, 6:01 AM

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Thank you

pallid gale Dec 10, 2020, 6:33 AM

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKgUJccjWRU

YouTube

AKALink

VRChat Baked Lighting tutorial

You can support me on my pateron
https://www.patreon.com/mcphersonsound
This is a longer tutorial than normal and there is a lot to cover so here are time stamps for your convivence.
00:00 what is baked lighting
00:35 setting up lights
1:23 preparing meshes to bake
2:30 generate lightmap UV
3:28 light probes
5:10 reflection probes
6:00 emissive ...

▶ Play video

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https://vrcat.club/threads/xiexes-lighting-tutorial-how-to-get-good-at-baked-lighting-101.2081/

VRCat: Community-Run VRChat Forums

Worlds - Xiexe's Lighting Tutorial : "How to Get Good at Baked Ligh...

Greetings! Over my course of playing VRChat I've noticed that most worlds, mainly the ones that have baked lighting, are done poorly, or in an...

shrewd harbor Dec 10, 2020, 10:24 PM

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Combining meshes... What's the general go-to process for that? In that, what objects should I aim to be combining, and is there such a thing as over-combining?

hazy haven Dec 11, 2020, 10:01 AM

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What I do is I combine almost all the meshes that uses same material, like walls and floors for example

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I consider making everything into one mesh as over-combining because occlusion culling would be pointless to use then.

lilac saddle Dec 11, 2020, 10:41 AM

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any other way to fix this annoying dark ceiling when baking lights?

📎 unknown.png

shrewd harbor Dec 11, 2020, 2:44 PM

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@hazy haven Ok, that was more or less what I was thinking. Thank you!

nova sphinx Dec 11, 2020, 10:59 PM

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Not sure where to ask this exactly, but I need help.. ..optimizing? my SDK3 world.

Essentially, I'm trying to translate Mimiga Village from Cave Story into a world, which entails transferring a 2D realm into a 3D space.

The issue is, working with Unity's snap-to-grid and cube sizing is a drag. There are tiny little seams throughout the blocks everywhere, and I'm going to have to make more complex "voxel" tiles for things like slopes and extra details. The white, non-textured tiles are where slopes should be.

If you've seen the Outer Wall world in VRChat, you should know my overall goal here.

TL;DR: How can I make better tiles for this world that aren't just cubes with textures on them and also make it so I'm not pulling my hair out to edit the layout of the level? Do I make voxel models in another software first? If so, where and how? Haven’t had much luck with MagicaVoxel..

For context the world in this image is made of many, MANY individual cubes scaled at 1.75 and snapped accordingly to the grid to give it an 8-bit feel.

📎 mv_snapshot2.PNG

versed lichen Dec 11, 2020, 11:18 PM

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blender would make it easy, not sure there's a simple solution in unity aside from snapping, maybe probuilder tools ?

nova sphinx Dec 11, 2020, 11:20 PM

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not sure what you mean by “probuilder tools” but if i can use blender i just need to make each mesh in some ratio in accordance with 16x16, right? I think I could subdivide a cube to get that..

versed lichen Dec 11, 2020, 11:29 PM

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Sure

nova sphinx Dec 11, 2020, 11:31 PM

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Alright. I’ll try this out and put results when I can.

lusty forge Dec 12, 2020, 5:17 PM

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📎 unknown.png

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What is this?

astral trout Dec 13, 2020, 6:42 AM

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is it possible to turn off the depth buffer once its been turned on via post processing dof? i noticed it remains on after the post process is turned on and off, incuring a performance hit

lusty forge Dec 13, 2020, 11:38 AM

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astral trout is it possible to turn off the depth buffer once its been turned on via post pro...

📎 unknown.png

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it was that

rose wolf Dec 14, 2020, 12:49 PM

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what

lilac saddle Dec 14, 2020, 2:55 PM

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IMO, turning on Future proof just make your world bigger (file size for upload) because it'll include the whole SDK itself

tranquil zephyr Dec 14, 2020, 2:57 PM

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last i checked it was a deprecated feature anyway. i think the original purpose was to allow creators to be able to restore old projects later on if they lost it. but it didnt get implemented.

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ive had it turned off for forever now after it broke a world upload.

versed lichen Dec 14, 2020, 8:42 PM

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Don't use 8k, be mindful of polygons once you're in the millions

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Decompression hits hard, lots of vram

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also you don't need realistic nature in vr, headsets aren't there yet

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so it doesn't make a difference

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powerful, yes, but they don't have the resolution

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the VRam cost isn't worth it unless the whole world is atlased on a single texture

rose wolf Dec 14, 2020, 8:47 PM

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quick question: when trying to compress a texture, i am able to do so via crunch compression and such, but when it comes to lightmaps, i am able to according to unity. but when i upload, the world size acts like i never compressed the lightmaps at all

versed lichen Dec 14, 2020, 8:47 PM

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and even then it's worse

versed lichen Dec 14, 2020, 8:47 PM

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rose wolf quick question: when trying to compress a texture, i am able to do so via crunch...

You can downscale the lightmaps

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or change the type

rose wolf Dec 14, 2020, 8:48 PM

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but im unable to crunch compress. correct?

versed lichen Dec 14, 2020, 8:48 PM

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correct

rose wolf Dec 14, 2020, 8:48 PM

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ok, thank you, that explains a lot

versed lichen Dec 14, 2020, 8:50 PM

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it's all PC ones or quest

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Sure, do you know a lot of people with a Varjo headset ?

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correct

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so they're not there yet

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yep, they need their own separate android build

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quest is quest 1 and quest 2

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on the pc version of the world yep

pallid gale Dec 15, 2020, 2:14 PM

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also you don't need 8K textures for doing Landscapes as there is material blending

topaz gale Dec 15, 2020, 2:14 PM

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wuts the correct unity needed to be used for udon?

tranquil zephyr Dec 15, 2020, 2:16 PM

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2018.4.20f1 is the unity you need for anything vrchat right now

topaz gale Dec 15, 2020, 2:17 PM

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thank

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https://tenor.com/view/love-you-happy-anime-the-helpful-fox-senko-san-gif-14521920

Tenor

quick coral Dec 15, 2020, 3:53 PM

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Texture questions:

We're going to have multiple booths all with their own set of textures in a world, what's the best way to keep quality up without crashing potato OSs?
What kind of ways are there to deal with different rezolutions in a world? would VRChat deal with that client side or is this something we should be setting up in our worlds?

rose wolf Dec 15, 2020, 3:55 PM

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@quick coral id try to have the smallest amount of textures as possible. such as atlasing, but usually that doesnt impact fps too bad, just camera angle changes.
for resolutions, id limit all textures to 1024 to be safe if you have 500 or more

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world file size would love that and ram

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also try occulson culling

quick coral Dec 15, 2020, 3:56 PM

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So if only a max of like 5 booths are visible at any time and the rest is hidden by other meshes, it should help?

rose wolf Dec 15, 2020, 3:58 PM

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for cpus, it would. but most fps challenges would lie in the gpu, so technically it wouldnt really do that much, ive just heard that people use occulsion culling for pickups

rose crater Dec 15, 2020, 3:58 PM

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the universal rule is the less draw calls the better, the more you can cull is always better

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atlasing and such, combining meshes, etc is to help reduce the amount you'll need to draw

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im assuming the booths will be pretty lowpoly? so i think the better route would be atlasing as much as you can

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especially if this is in a giant empty room, then culling wouldnt do too much for you in the first place

quick coral Dec 15, 2020, 4:03 PM

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Thanks

stray condor Dec 15, 2020, 6:56 PM

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If I want to make a floorplan using blender and import that into unity, is there anything I should be conscious of for performance in game?

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Ive never made a world for VR chat before, so im just trying to get an idea of what I need to be concerned about

hidden flame Dec 17, 2020, 2:12 AM

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@stray condor Surprised no one here answered you, but really nothing too much to worry about if it is just basic building. The main things that you should not use or limit is real time lighting and intensive shaders. If you are still hurting in performance, such as a large world, you could use occlusion culling as it will help by not rendering things out of view.

sick haven Dec 17, 2020, 3:02 AM

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main things to concider: keep draw calls low. bake lighting where you can. make use of LOD's where you can. dont go overboard with polygon budgets. keep colliders simple.

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if you wanna go really in depth.
https://simonschreibt.de/gat/renderhell/

Simon schreibt.

Simon

Render Hell 2.0

stray condor Dec 17, 2020, 3:44 AM

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Awesome, Thanks!

lilac saddle Dec 17, 2020, 5:41 PM

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Is there a pen package for SDK3 yet?

rose wolf Dec 17, 2020, 5:46 PM

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@lilac saddle what kind of pens? like noe orrrrr...

lilac saddle Dec 17, 2020, 5:49 PM

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@rose wolf Yea, like the ones on midnight rooftop and summer solitude

rose wolf Dec 17, 2020, 5:50 PM

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@lilac saddle k

lilac saddle Dec 17, 2020, 5:50 PM

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hola

cold prairie Dec 17, 2020, 5:55 PM

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lilac saddle Is there a pen package for SDK3 yet?

Qvpen has sdk3 and sdk2 versions for download
https://booth.pm/ja/items/1555789

ワールドペン Qv Pen (トレイル、消しゴム機能付き) [VRChat] - Package Shop @aivrc - BOOT...

VRChatのワールド用のペンセットです。消しゴム機能も付いています。 Quest向けマテリアルに差し替えた場合はTrailRendererのWidthの値を0より大きい値にしてください(0.005など) 完璧に同期が取れるというわけではなく、速めにペンを運ぶと同期が取れにくくなります。その場合はゆっくり書くなどしてください。 Presentation RoomなどのようなLate Joinerへの同期は取れません。デスクトップモードの人が書いた文字はVRモードに比べるとあまり同期しません。 ※ExMenu用最小限アセット ExMenu（拡張メニュー） (

lilac saddle Dec 17, 2020, 6:07 PM

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Just got this in my dms too, thanks!

mild rune Dec 17, 2020, 7:08 PM

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@versed lichen is it possible to combine materials for worlds like you can with avatars to save on draw calls?

versed lichen Dec 17, 2020, 7:08 PM

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Definitely

mild rune Dec 17, 2020, 7:08 PM

#

is it the same process?

versed lichen Dec 17, 2020, 7:08 PM

#

But make sure you don't do that randomly

#

take culling into account, because if you atlas textures, then you can't batch or occlude as easily

#

but otherwise same process yeah

mild rune Dec 17, 2020, 7:09 PM

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oh true

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what's more efficient, occlusion culling or combining materials?

versed lichen Dec 17, 2020, 7:10 PM

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really depends on the world

#

but you'd want to do both

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 12:49 AM

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how many verts is too many verts in a world

versed lichen Dec 18, 2020, 1:26 AM

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there isn't an amount

#

Depends on what you see in front of you

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 4:02 AM

#

wat do

📎 unknown.png

versed lichen Dec 18, 2020, 4:07 AM

#

what are you baking ?

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 4:27 AM

#

@versed lichen pretty much every map for a world terrain I made. But I think there's something wrong with the UVs, because painting one side seems to simultaneously paint other parts of the mesh as well. Not sure what to do

#

the materials being applied are also scaling up too much and it looks low resolution

#

📎 unknown.png

versed lichen Dec 18, 2020, 4:28 AM

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You're not gonna light bake in unity ?

#

Make sure you have no overlapping UVs

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 4:29 AM

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doesn't substance painter automatically check for overlapping UVs when it bakes them?

#

I will end up baking the lighting in unity

versed lichen Dec 18, 2020, 4:30 AM

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it'll bake even if it's overlapping

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 4:30 AM

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should I just import the UVs I automatically generated in blender?

#

@versed lichen This doesn't look right at all..

📎 unknown.png

versed lichen Dec 18, 2020, 4:31 AM

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Is that your terrain ?

#

I've never seen anyone do that tbh

rose wolf Dec 18, 2020, 4:32 AM

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ive never trusted blender uvs for 2.8 or 2.9, theyre a bit too unreliable

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 4:33 AM

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@rose wolf it has to be better than this though

#

UV import is just texture right?

📎 unknown.png

rose wolf Dec 18, 2020, 4:34 AM

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i mean, i use 2.4.9 blender and it usually does pretty good at uvs. but if all else fails. export a fbx/dae/obj and generate there. if the uv is already mapped in blender, it should be fine for textures

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 4:34 AM

#

Ohh... Substance painter won't automatically assign UVs will it?

#

I thought it did that when you baked

rose wolf Dec 18, 2020, 4:35 AM

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no, uv maps are pre generated in the weightmapping window? (in 2.4.9, dk what its called in 2.8)

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 4:36 AM

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how do I assign my UV map to my mesh in substance painter?

rose wolf Dec 18, 2020, 4:36 AM

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when baked is when hel goes loose and after a few hours realize that lightmap uvs werent generated properly

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 4:36 AM

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I imported it, just don't know how to assign

#

wait the lightmap has its own UVs?

rose wolf Dec 18, 2020, 4:36 AM

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there should be a way to view uvmaps in edit mode

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yes

#

but it seems you want textures/material uvs

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 4:37 AM

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yeah for the moment

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just can't figure out how to assign my UVs I imported from blender in substance painter

rose wolf Dec 18, 2020, 4:37 AM

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i mean, if you substance paint and it looks like its working correctly, it should export fine

#

how did you import?

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 4:38 AM

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how will it know what the UV map looks like if I export without assigning one?

#

I just imported the mesh as normal

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@rose wolf it seems to work if I'm doing as you say, but I still can't figure out why the materials are blowing up when I paint with them

#

they're too big and its making them super low res

rose wolf Dec 18, 2020, 4:40 AM

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thats odd, i can’t remember how to do it in new blender, but there should be a setting in the weightmap window (if thats what its called now) to adjusted the resolution of the uv matrix

#

map*

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dont make a matrix

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 4:41 AM

#

📎 unknown.png

#

do you know how to do this?

rose wolf Dec 18, 2020, 4:43 AM

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I know 🤥 how to do this in autodesk, ive never seen blender be able to do this

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but im sure online theres a video or stepguide thatll lead you to the settings that does that exact thing

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 4:51 AM

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the thing I need to fix is called the "Texel Density" I guess

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@versed lichen would you happen to know how to adjust texel density from blender 2.8?

versed lichen Dec 18, 2020, 4:53 AM

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texel density of ?

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 4:53 AM

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of the UV map

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or from substance painter

versed lichen Dec 18, 2020, 4:54 AM

#

RuuuThunk

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 4:54 AM

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too low res when I paint

versed lichen Dec 18, 2020, 4:54 AM

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isn't it because your terrain is super large ?

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 4:55 AM

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it is super large but the materials are applying their textures as if the object is super small

#

https://youtu.be/bwusznnkRxo?t=177

YouTube

Substance by Adobe

Substance Painter Tutorial – Model Preparation 01: UV Mapping and T...

In this video we discuss UV mapping and texel density in regards to maximizing texture resolution.

Support thread:

▶ Play video

versed lichen Dec 18, 2020, 5:00 AM

#

Did you bake at 4k res ?

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 5:00 AM

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yes

versed lichen Dec 18, 2020, 5:01 AM

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what does the UV look like ?

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 5:03 AM

#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvzRpMHBE40&feature=emb_title&ab_channel=NikolayShamaev

YouTube

Nikolay Shamaev

Manually control texel density 100 % in Blender 2.8 Tutorial

Here is Blender tutorial on how you can control texel density using only Blender 2.8 without any third-party plugins. This way always works and you can do this at any time. You just need to create simple 1 by 1 meter plane and apply to it special texture - UV checker grid, which you can generate inside Blemder. Then you can apply material with t...

▶ Play video

#

wait... All I had to do was scale the UV map up??

rose wolf Dec 18, 2020, 5:04 AM

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yes

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 5:22 AM

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@rose wolf @versed lichen See, when I paint onto the mesh in substance painter, the entire map for the massive terrain mesh gets painted really low resolution with whatever material I use

📎 unknown.png

versed lichen Dec 18, 2020, 5:22 AM

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Well that's a very low res texture for a giant mesh ?

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 5:22 AM

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@versed lichen shouldn't it tile?

versed lichen Dec 18, 2020, 5:23 AM

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nope

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 5:23 AM

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then how would anyone paint a large object in substance painter?

versed lichen Dec 18, 2020, 5:24 AM

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They usually don't

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or they do with tilable texture through specific smart materials

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 5:28 AM

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the UV map is only 1024 x 1024. Couldn't I just increase the resolution of the UV map?

📎 unknown.png

#

@versed lichen

versed lichen Dec 18, 2020, 5:30 AM

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I don't know if that makes a difference in substance but you can try

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 5:31 AM

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how would I do that

versed lichen Dec 18, 2020, 5:31 AM

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no idea, never did that before

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hence why i'm not sure if it matters

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 5:33 AM

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@versed lichen what if I just scaled the UV map up to 4k?

#

?

📎 unknown.png

versed lichen Dec 18, 2020, 5:35 AM

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maybe, but you'll still be stretching this low res image on the whole terrain so tohrushrug

pallid gale Dec 18, 2020, 6:18 AM

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large terrain is usually done with material blending or some sort of Shader to where it makes it less noticeable the tiling

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but yeah there's no way to make a uniquely unwrapped texture look good for very large terrain

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 6:49 PM

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@pallid gale what shader should I use for my terrain?

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 8:08 PM

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@versed lichen does reusing the same material on different objects with distinct meshes save on performance vs. using a separate material?

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@rose wolf

versed lichen Dec 18, 2020, 8:12 PM

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that's how you're usually supposed to do it

rose wolf Dec 18, 2020, 8:23 PM

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yes

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 8:36 PM

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or is it more about the amount of material "slots?"

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 9:34 PM

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@rose wolf is there any better way to do this?

📎 unknown.png

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is this inefficient?

rose wolf Dec 18, 2020, 9:36 PM

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i mean.... thats what i do lol

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 9:36 PM

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what if I were to combine these trees into one object?

#

would it matter?

rose wolf Dec 18, 2020, 9:36 PM

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it is, unless you are good with memorizing where stuff

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umm, i wouldnt, vrc sdk has trouble with big parents and children

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wouldnt risk it unless you need to

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 9:37 PM

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big parents and children?

#

oh

rose wolf Dec 18, 2020, 9:37 PM

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yea, in hierarchy

#

like puting thos trees under one game object

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 9:37 PM

#

kk

#

@rose wolf is it easier for the computer to render copies of the same object? or is it going to render out each tree individually?

rose wolf Dec 18, 2020, 9:38 PM

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i mean, it slightly helps if theyre all the same prefab

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 9:38 PM

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well they're the same mesh

rose wolf Dec 18, 2020, 9:38 PM

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but its so small, that you cant even tell on a gpuless environment

#

i mean yea, but theyre all prefabbed anyway, so it should be as good as it can

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 9:39 PM

#

o

#

in theory y couldn't I just combine every static object into one big mesh and material?

rose wolf Dec 18, 2020, 9:42 PM

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yea, you can

#

i think theres a unity thing that allows you to do so

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 9:58 PM

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@rose wolf thanks for the help btw. Is there any way to see the total verticies in your world in unity from a certain camera angle?

rose wolf Dec 18, 2020, 10:01 PM

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yea, if you go to game and turn on graphics, i think it tells you

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 10:10 PM

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@rose wolf can't find the graphics option

rose wolf Dec 18, 2020, 10:10 PM

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theres a way to check in play mode in the game tab

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icr which button tho

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 10:37 PM

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@rose wolf why does the game think there are 420,000 verts? I can't have more than 40,000 verts in this current scene

📎 unknown.png

rose wolf Dec 18, 2020, 10:38 PM

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i mean, its pretty easy to "get lost in the sauce" when making new vertices. but if there is truly 40k verts in the scene, then its seeing something you cant

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 10:38 PM

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the terrain is only a few thousand verts and each tree cluster has a LOD that makes them only a few thousand verts as well when far away

#

is it based on where the main camera is?

rose wolf Dec 18, 2020, 10:39 PM

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yes, but ive never seen that menu, so you may be seeing the whole scene at once with the lods occuring

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 10:40 PM

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no matter where I put the camera it says 400k verts

rose wolf Dec 18, 2020, 10:40 PM

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which is usually about 3-4x the amount of the original amount when using lods

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 10:40 PM

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let me turn off the trees

#

it still thinks there are 200k verts..

📎 unknown.png

rose wolf Dec 18, 2020, 10:42 PM

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well at least it was a big difference

#

maybe there were 400k verts instead of 40k

#

unless everything has lod or cascading

#

but im pretty sure cascades dont mess with verts, just textures

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 10:43 PM

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@rose wolf this is my terrain in Blender. There's literally nothing else in the scene

📎 unknown.png

rose wolf Dec 18, 2020, 10:43 PM

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what did you export it as?

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 10:43 PM

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fbx

#

the maps wouldn't affect it right?

rose wolf Dec 18, 2020, 10:44 PM

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and you told it to import the normals (i doubt it will mess with verts but maybe)

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nah, unless unity acc counts res as excess verts for some reason? but i doubt that as well

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 10:44 PM

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textures are pretty low res too

#

@versed lichen

rose wolf Dec 18, 2020, 10:45 PM

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i would say export as a dae, but dae are more calculated and might make unity see more verts

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 10:46 PM

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@rose wolf turning my terrain off sets the verts to only 7

#

so it must be the terrain

#

but why..

rose wolf Dec 18, 2020, 10:46 PM

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thats super odd

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 10:47 PM

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does it have to do with the imported maps from substance painter?

#

why would that affect verts? doesn't make sense

rose wolf Dec 18, 2020, 10:47 PM

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i mean, possibly. but it shouldnt since the model in blender is less

#

is there multiple copies of the same terrain in the scene?

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 10:48 PM

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@rose wolf i don't think so, but I do have my scene descriptor on the terrain. is that okay?

rose wolf Dec 18, 2020, 10:49 PM

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id put the scene desc on a new game object and not on a mesh/terrain

#

also these are the stats i see, youre look different

📎 Capture.PNG

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 11:00 PM

#

@rose wolf

https://answers.unity.com/questions/885348/object-have-way-more-vertices-than-it-should.html

[Solved]Object have way more vertices than it should - Unity Answers

Unity is the ultimate game development platform. Use Unity to build high-quality 3D and 2D games, deploy them across mobile, desktop, VR/AR, consoles or the Web, and connect with loyal and enthusiastic players and customers.

rose wolf Dec 18, 2020, 11:01 PM

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was that able to help you?

#

(my world is very massive and needs better occulsion cullinging so thats why my tris and stuff are high)

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 11:03 PM

#

The total verts and tris counts are also useful as some things like real-time lighting and shadows render the same mesh multiple times so this value can be much higher than the sum of all of the verts and tris in your scene.

#

maybe its poiyomi

rose wolf Dec 18, 2020, 11:04 PM

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ive never seen a shader change verts before

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 11:07 PM

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just wanna know whats dropping my fps to 45 in vr

rose wolf Dec 18, 2020, 11:08 PM

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realtime lights changing

mild rune Dec 18, 2020, 11:08 PM

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i didnt add lighting yet

rose wolf Dec 18, 2020, 11:11 PM

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hmmm, how many materials are present? and gpu set

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cus that world with 89.1M verts, i brought many people with vr and they get 60fps

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 4:41 AM

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@rose wolf oh rly?

#

is it okay to bake occlusion culling into the world with the unity menu?

#

or does vrchat handle its own occlusion culling

rose wolf Dec 19, 2020, 4:43 AM

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you should use unity culling, but use a lesser setting if stuff is atlasing

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 4:44 AM

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@rose wolf is it okay to bake after you already bake? Like can I bake it once to test it out and then bake it again for the final version?

rose wolf Dec 19, 2020, 4:45 AM

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oh yea

#

bake as many as you want, it can be cleared and readded any time

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 4:45 AM

#

kk

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 4:50 AM

#

for large worlds you want to use occlusion zones to basically tell unity which areas are important and where users will primarily be

#

also for smaller objects and what not, you'll want to turn off occluder static, as they are unlikely to occlude anything, and depending on your bake settings can cause issues where the map starts randomly flickering in different spots

cold prairie Dec 19, 2020, 4:52 AM

#

https://gitlab.com/s-ilent/SCSS/-/wikis/Other/Occlusion-Culling

GitLab

Occlusion Culling · Wiki · s-ilent / Silent Cel Shading Shader

A surface shader for Unity providing cel-shading. (Forward rendering only)

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 5:04 AM

#

I would also highly recommend using occlusion portals on mirrors if they have a significant amount of scenery behind them, and turn them on and off with the mirror.

#

https://cdn.nyanpa.su/v/anGp1z8L.webm

▶ Play video

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:01 AM

#

@astral trout thank you

#

@astral trout
why are my draw calls so high with so few meshes in the world?

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:04 AM

#

how many?

#

also read the link from 1 if you havent

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:16 AM

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what shader is that?

#

@astral trout I have 1 mesh (terrain mesh) and 1 material on it, and I get 15 draw calls

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:17 AM

#

thats because unity breaks terrain up into chunks

#

so they can be occluded

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:19 AM

#

@astral trout is there any way to disable that? It seems to be hurting me more than helping, since the terrain can't exactly occlude itself anyway

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:19 AM

#

it's also for frustum culling

#

terrain out of your view wont be rendered etc

#

also make sure draw instanced is enabled https://nyanpa.su/i/B7Fo1XFy.png

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:20 AM

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@astral trout thanks for the help again. And where do you find that menu

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:20 AM

#

under terrain settings

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:22 AM

#

@astral trout where are terrain settings? I just have my mesh with a collider

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:22 AM

#

wait, are you not using unity terrain?

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:22 AM

#

no, first world

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:22 AM

#

so its just a large mesh?

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:23 AM

#

yep, the entire terrain is a large mesh with 1 material

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:23 AM

#

huh, and this mesh alone is 15 draw calls?

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:23 AM

#

apparently

rose wolf Dec 19, 2020, 6:23 AM

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yea ihni either

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:23 AM

#

doesn't have anything to do with UVs right?

quartz shard Dec 19, 2020, 6:23 AM

#

you got sam real time light in it?

#

if yes that it

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:24 AM

#

I never messed with light settings yet but I'm not sure

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:24 AM

#

Window > Rendering > Light explorer

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:24 AM

#

📎 unknown.png

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:25 AM

#

is that real time?

#

well if you havent messed with it then yes

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:25 AM

#

📎 unknown.png

#

not sure

#

where would I check

#

would that still account for 15 draw calls though?

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:25 AM

#

did you do any light baking?

#

not entirely

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:26 AM

#

no, I only baked occlusion culling

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:26 AM

#

can you show a screenshot of the scene and the stats window with just that terrain?

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:26 AM

#

but when I disable everything else in the world except for the terrain, its still 15 draw calls

#

yes

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:26 AM

#

skybox will also add to draw calls

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:27 AM

#

had my lake and river enabled, but its just 2 more meshes and 1 more material

#

📎 unknown.png

#

terrain is 12

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:27 AM

#

post processing?

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:27 AM

#

I never messed with post processing

#

just started the project

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:28 AM

#

and what are stats like with everything disabled

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:28 AM

#

good question

#

hmm.. its 7

📎 unknown.png

quartz shard Dec 19, 2020, 6:28 AM

#

skybox can that be?

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:29 AM

#

so 5 from terrain

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:29 AM

#

so

#

why would the skybox be 7

#

and why would the terrain be 5?

#

📎 unknown.png

#

the skybox is very simple

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:31 AM

#

1 draw call for each side

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:31 AM

#

is that normal?

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:31 AM

#

skybox is 6 draw calls, and theres a base 1 drawcall for the scene

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:31 AM

#

so that's normal and there's no way to mitigate that?

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:32 AM

#

depends on the skybox i believe? ones that just use a single cube map should be 1 draw call maybe?

#

honestly these numbers are still very low

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:33 AM

#

okay I'm using this one now

📎 unknown.png

#

📎 unknown.png

#

okay the skybox is solved

rose wolf Dec 19, 2020, 6:33 AM

#

i see 6 textures, therefore, that miht contribute

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:33 AM

#

but what about the terrain? gonna take a 200 IQ guess to figure that one out at this rate

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:34 AM

#

single material?

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:34 AM

#

1 material, 1 mesh

#

what are "dynamic" materials btw?

📎 unknown.png

#

its under the scene descriptor

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:35 AM

#

its just all the materials used in your scene i believe

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:35 AM

#

🤔

#

what the heck is this material 0.11..

#

sec

#

that's just for the trees so it shouldn't affect the terrain

#

terrain is absolutely 1 mat

📎 unknown.png

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:37 AM

#

I wouldnt use a toon shader for a map unless you're really specifically going for a certain look

#

also make sure all objects are set as static etc

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:38 AM

#

they are

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:38 AM

#

look at the difference with the lights on and off for your terrain i suppose

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:39 AM

#

@astral trout how do I turn off lighting

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:39 AM

#

just disable the object?

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:40 AM

#

its 2 draw calls with the object disabled (one by default + 1 for skybox)

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:40 AM

#

i mean for the terrain mesh without lights

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:41 AM

#

all I need to do is turn off global illumination?

📎 unknown.png

#

dunno how to disable lighting

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:42 AM

#

you have a directional light in your scene

#

you can just disable that object

#

or disable the component from the light explorer

#

later on for optimization, if you dont need real time lights, you may want to consider baking your lights

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:43 AM

#

yeah I was gonna bake them when im done

#

I think you're right and its just making chunks for the terrain

#

probably not much I can do to fix that

#

I need to figure out why I'm getting so many draw calls when I'm literally reusing the same material on multiple trees

#

sounds like I need to just do all of the trees in blender and combine them into one mesh

#

but then I can't LOD them

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:46 AM

#

seperate meshes are still seperate draw calls

#

regardless of sharing the same material or not

#

however, if set as batching static unity will batch them together

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:46 AM

#

is there any way I can combine them in unity without having to do it in blender?

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:47 AM

#

unless you have a lot of these, static batching is good enough in most cases

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:47 AM

#

what does static batching do?

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:47 AM

#

batches draw calls together

#

https://docs.unity3d.com/2018.4/Documentation/Manual/DrawCallBatching.html

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:47 AM

#

is one batched set of draw calls equal to 1 non-batched draw call?

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:48 AM

#

no

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:48 AM

#

in performance

#

is it close?

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:48 AM

#

there is some overhead

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:48 AM

#

how much better is batching vs. not batching?

quartz shard Dec 19, 2020, 6:48 AM

#

i useng probuilder to combine them you can make the objeckt probuilder objeckt

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:48 AM

#

@quartz shard 😮

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:48 AM

#

I cant give you any definitive numbers for that, it varies widely depending on scene

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:48 AM

#

@quartz shard teach me? <#

#

❤️

quartz shard Dec 19, 2020, 6:48 AM

#

but i dont know what skd you use and if it good for sdk3 😮

#

sdk

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:49 AM

#

whichever SDK is currently on the vrc website

#

sdk3

quartz shard Dec 19, 2020, 6:49 AM

#

both ther is sdk 2 and 3

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:49 AM

#

its 3

quartz shard Dec 19, 2020, 6:49 AM

#

i am useng sdk2

#

so i cant help on 3

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:50 AM

#

I'm sure probuilder works with sdk3

#

doesn't it?

quartz shard Dec 19, 2020, 6:50 AM

#

no idea about that

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:51 AM

#

there is no difference between sdk2 and sdk3 in terms of graphical and rendering related issues

quartz shard Dec 19, 2020, 6:52 AM

#

yea that should be rigth why its for building stuf

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:53 AM

#

@quartz shard @astral trout okay but I can't find it in the asset store

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:53 AM

#

you get it from unity package manager

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:53 AM

#

📎 unknown.png

#

@astral trout whats that

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 6:55 AM

#

Window > package manager

quartz shard Dec 19, 2020, 6:55 AM

#

he try to find it and the only think that show up is this i think

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:56 AM

#

found it

#

do I need progrids too?

#

probably not

quartz shard Dec 19, 2020, 6:56 AM

#

nope i think its a part of unity now ? not sure

#

but you dont need it i never have use it

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:57 AM

#

so how would I combine meshes in probuilder

#

is it easy or difficult

quartz shard Dec 19, 2020, 6:57 AM

#

its easy

#

if you use the probuilder objeckt its one klick

#

if you got a objeckt that is not probuilder you can make it to it with one klick

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:58 AM

#

📎 unknown.png

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 6:58 AM

#

quartz shard if you got a objeckt that is not probuilder you can make it to it with one klick

how do I do this

quartz shard Dec 19, 2020, 6:59 AM

#

ther is a buton that say merge objeckts

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for the probuilder ones

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 7:00 AM

#

📎 unknown.png

#

📎 unknown.png

#

do I have to make the objects into pro-builder objects first?

#

how do I make the objects pro-builder objects

quartz shard Dec 19, 2020, 7:00 AM

#

if its not yes

#

i use icon mode so its now little dificult for me see

#

mine look like this xD

📎 unknown.png

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 7:02 AM

#

is that this?

📎 unknown.png

quartz shard Dec 19, 2020, 7:03 AM

#

that make the objeckt to probuilder

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 7:03 AM

#

so I click that first and then combine?

quartz shard Dec 19, 2020, 7:03 AM

#

all the objeckt need to be probuilder to compi it

#

📎 unknown.png

#

you see

#

📎 unknown.png

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 7:04 AM

#

ah yes

#

I see

#

but I had LODs for some of these objects

quartz shard Dec 19, 2020, 7:04 AM

#

i forgot to move the one box 😄

#

o

#

no idea about lod

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 7:04 AM

#

they probably dont work

#

but its fine

#

probably better to save on draw calls vs. save on verts

quartz shard Dec 19, 2020, 7:05 AM

#

you need to think now its one mesh

#

so occlusion if you got yor objeckt difrent locasion you need to think its on mesh now so keep that in mind

#

one mesh

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 7:07 AM

#

thanks so much for the help

#

you guys are Chads

#

I think this works

quartz shard Dec 19, 2020, 7:08 AM

#

np

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 7:13 AM

#

@quartz shard @astral trout @rose wolf one more question for now. So verticies don't really impact performance as much in vrchat? Like is a couple hundred thousand verticies going to kill my fps or not?

rose wolf Dec 19, 2020, 7:13 AM

#

it shouldnt

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 7:13 AM

#

polygons will always affect fps regardless of any game

rose wolf Dec 19, 2020, 7:13 AM

#

unless theyre like all in your face

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 7:14 AM

#

however the modern gpu can easily handle millions of polygons

rose wolf Dec 19, 2020, 7:14 AM

#

yea, a cpu can handle about 4 million at 60 fps

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 7:14 AM

#

i wouldnt start worrying about it unless you're above 500k-1m

#

or if you're targeting quest

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 7:14 AM

#

kk

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 7:15 AM

#

of course, people on budget computers may experience worse but you know

rose wolf Dec 19, 2020, 7:15 AM

#

apu or gpuless you normally need to worry about draw calls

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 7:15 AM

#

also, how come my blender verts for my map are only 10k but in unity its 200k? does unity divide up higher shapes into triangles? why would that add verts?

astral trout Dec 19, 2020, 7:16 AM

#

real time lights etc

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 7:17 AM

#

ah

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 9:32 PM

#

I cant figure out how to atlas this tree cluster which has a needlessly separate material for the bark and the branches. This person really moved around their blender setup, and the UV editor doesn't even show the UV map for the branches.

agile hawk Dec 19, 2020, 10:16 PM

#

Export the FBX and import the FBX, or append the model in a fresh blend.

mild rune Dec 19, 2020, 11:20 PM

#

oh thats a good idea

mild rune Dec 20, 2020, 1:44 AM

#

@astral trout Do you know why unity is spending 8 draw calls on my forest object which is one big mesh with 2 materials?

#

is it breaking it into chunks?

#

@quartz shard @agile hawk

#

TaSuKeTeeee

agile hawk Dec 20, 2020, 3:06 AM

#

8 draw calls.
2 materials = 2 draw calls,
Light hitting material = 2 draw calls (per object)
Shadows = 1 draw call (per object)

Should be divided like that, I believe?

rose crater Dec 20, 2020, 3:23 AM

#

not really, depends on the rendering method

#

forward rendering for example can do it in one draw call, but deferred may take more

#

not sure what vrchat does

#

shadows will take one draw call yeah, but I’m not sure if the unity profiler includes that in the same stat

astral trout Dec 20, 2020, 4:44 AM

#

vrchat is forward rendering

mild rune Dec 20, 2020, 4:47 AM

#

@agile hawk does marking objects with same materials as static automatically apply batching or do I need to activate something

#

@astral trout

#

@rose crater

astral trout Dec 20, 2020, 4:48 AM

#

as long as static batching is checked

#

unity will apply static batching if it can

#

objects need to have the same material

#

and also some shaders i believe can set a flag that disables static batching

#

also please chill on the pings lol

#

I'm not entirely sure on the specifics of real time lights effects on draw calls, but from a quick check it looks like a single directional light increases the number of batches a fair bit

#

i tend to avoid using real time lights at all and bake everything

mild rune Dec 20, 2020, 7:38 AM

#

@astral trout where would one check this

astral trout Dec 20, 2020, 8:42 AM

#

if you marked it as static it'll check all by default https://nyanpa.su/i/KaE81Xbl.png

mild rune Dec 20, 2020, 8:30 PM

#

@astral trout what is generally considered a decent amount of draw calls for a world? Also what is generally considered poor optimization? I know its more complicated than that, but I want a rough estimate of where I should be at

mild rune Dec 20, 2020, 11:36 PM

#

@astral trout @rose crater zzzz does this thing ever work? Does it just take a long time?

📎 unknown.png

#

@agile hawk @quartz shard

rose wolf Dec 20, 2020, 11:37 PM

#

id assume using that would take a while

mild rune Dec 20, 2020, 11:38 PM

#

well its stuck at 100% on group 1

#

also

📎 unknown.png

#

📎 unknown.png

quartz shard Dec 20, 2020, 11:47 PM

#

i think you use the probuilder program to compi mesh about that program you use now i have no idea

#

now about the warning you geting i am not so exp on that i most ignore stuf like that antil i get a problem

astral trout Dec 21, 2020, 3:14 AM

#

I don't have any experience with that tool you're using.
As for draw calls, obviously you really don't want thousands of them. But it also depends on what you are trying to achieve.
What is your performance target? 90 fps with multiple people and a mirror? 144fps for index? etc etc and what kind of hardware etc?
Personally, I try to stay below 200-300 max, and go as low as I possibly can without sacrificing graphical fidelity unless needed.

Also please, you don't have to ping me every time. I try to answer questions here occasionally whenever I can and have to free time to look but I rather not be pinged multiple times for every small question.

mild rune Dec 21, 2020, 4:20 AM

#

@astral trout my performance target is 90 FPS with a few optimized avatars in the world, which I know is difficult to achieve, but I still wanna try

#

with a GTX 1080 and 10700k 5.1 Ghz allcore

#

whoops sorry I pinged you before I read your message not to ping you

bitter yoke Dec 21, 2020, 4:23 AM

#

Is the FOV on VRChat fixed?
Or can it be changed depending on the world?

versed lichen Dec 21, 2020, 4:26 AM

#

it is fixed

bitter yoke Dec 21, 2020, 4:30 AM

#

Thank you.
By the way, what is the FOV value?

versed lichen Dec 21, 2020, 4:30 AM

#

different per headset

mild rune Dec 21, 2020, 4:32 AM

#

110 degrees on index max

#

though that might make you sick if you turn up FOV in VR

bitter yoke Dec 21, 2020, 4:34 AM

#

Thank you.
How about in desktop mode?

mild rune Dec 21, 2020, 4:34 AM

#

@versed lichen do you know any good materials that teach texture atlasing in blender 2.8?

versed lichen Dec 21, 2020, 4:35 AM

#

plenty on youtube yeah

mild rune Dec 21, 2020, 4:35 AM

#

i see a lot for 2.7

versed lichen Dec 21, 2020, 4:35 AM

#

pretty much the exact same process

#

just different UI

mild rune Dec 21, 2020, 4:37 AM

#

do the atlas's need to be squares or can they be rectangles?

#

I have 3 textures to atlas but I can't make a square with 3

astral trout Dec 21, 2020, 4:50 AM

#

90 fps with a few people with optimized avatars in a world is not that hard at all to be honest, unless you're doing a really big world or detailed world

#

as long as you combine meshes where you can, bake lights, good use of occlusion culling its quite achievable

#

I have an aging 4790k with a 1080 as well, and my personal target is to maintain 90 fps with a htc vive at 125% supersampling while alone in the map with a full mirror on in the most complex area

mild rune Dec 21, 2020, 5:02 AM

#

Is it okay to atlas textures that have transparency with textures that don't?

astral trout Dec 21, 2020, 5:03 AM

#

you want to keep transparent and opaque textures seperate

mild rune Dec 21, 2020, 5:05 AM

#

kk

#

I just upgraded from a 4770k, so it sounds like we had a pretty similar setup

mild rune Dec 21, 2020, 5:44 AM

#

but can I atlas transparent and opaque textures in the same atlas?

versed lichen Dec 21, 2020, 5:45 AM

#

yes

fiery bramble Dec 21, 2020, 12:11 PM

#

both build & test or build & publish arent working can anyone help

📎 unknown.png

mild rune Dec 21, 2020, 4:59 PM

#

Ruubick-sama, do I have to compress high res textures before atlasing them? what if they dont fit in my grid?

#

would you rather occlusion cull a high resolution grass texture or atlas it with the rest of your scenery?

#

If I atlas it, is the scene going to pull the texture from memory for each piece of grass, or is it going to collectively pull it once from memory for every piece of grass?

mild rune Dec 21, 2020, 5:21 PM

#

do you know if I can atlas something that has an alpha map? Do I have to make a separate alpha map the size of the atlas and then just apply that to my transparent objects as usual in unity? ex:

#

📎 unknown.png

lilac saddle Dec 21, 2020, 9:32 PM

#

fiery bramble both build & test or build & publish arent working can anyone help

check console log n see if there's any error

mild rune Dec 22, 2020, 12:20 AM

#

does blender have a console?

mild rune Dec 22, 2020, 1:26 AM

#

Is it okay to make an atlas of multiple atlases?

astral trout Dec 22, 2020, 4:02 AM

#

when you atlas, unless its a shader that specifically has features like a detail texture mapping on a seperate uv map, you will want to keep all your textures with the same uv layout. it doesn't have to be the same size per say, just the same aspect ratio and layout. So yes if you atlas the diffuse/albedo texture, you need to do the same for the alpha maps, normal maps, emissions etc.

#

an atlas of multiple atlases is just a bigger atlas lol. though typically you'd keep them to a max of 4k I suppose, but don't quote me on that. personally I wouldn't go higher than that but I don't know if theres any standard practice for it.

mild rune Dec 22, 2020, 9:01 AM

#

ty for the knowledge

lilac saddle Dec 22, 2020, 11:06 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

#

i seem to have changed the view for the Texture inspector but I don't know how to get it back to normal

#

oh god it's the same on another project

#

pls help

#

wow so apparently 'Default' is a button, not the title of the panel

#

S Tier UI design Unity

mild rune Dec 22, 2020, 11:21 PM

#

@lilac saddle I hate unity xd

lilac saddle Dec 22, 2020, 11:29 PM

#

the worst ui thing i've seen in a long time

dusty prairie Dec 23, 2020, 3:09 AM

#

What's considered 'Too high' of a poly count for a world? I'm working on a pretty large one but the actual poly count shouldn't be too high after cleaning it up

astral trout Dec 23, 2020, 3:38 AM

#

Its not so much of the total poly count of the entire world, but rather how much of it a user would view at any given time.
In any case, reducing cpu overhead is much more important than gpu load for optimization in vrchat or in general.
Poly counts of 1-2m is not as bad as 1000+ draw calls. How much poly's do you have?

dusty prairie Dec 23, 2020, 4:29 AM

#

16000ish prior to optimization, but also not even closed to finished. It is a pretty large world though, didn't think about the fact that it's a wide open space having an effect tho.

📎 Screenshot_from_2020-12-22_22-28-54.png

#

Little cube with the camera is for scale

astral trout Dec 23, 2020, 4:29 AM

#

oh thats fine lol

versed lichen Dec 23, 2020, 4:30 AM

#

That's extremely low

astral trout Dec 23, 2020, 4:30 AM

#

16k is nothing, i'd be more conscious of number of materials and meshes

versed lichen Dec 23, 2020, 4:30 AM

#

it'd even be low for quest

dusty prairie Dec 23, 2020, 4:32 AM

#

Dope, I imagine I'll probably hit 200k-ish after I apply all the mirrors and subdivision modifiers tho.
Question though, when I model flat objects do I still need to stress about them only having 4 vertices, or is it irrelevant if it's a flat surface? Sorry still new to this!

versed lichen Dec 23, 2020, 4:33 AM

#

Subdiv on hard surface ?

#

if it's a quad then yeah, having 4 vertices should be the goal

dusty prairie Dec 23, 2020, 4:35 AM

#

So then I should make an effort to correct surfaces like this and use only quads?

📎 Screenshot_from_2020-12-22_22-34-49.png

versed lichen Dec 23, 2020, 4:36 AM

#

Oh, yeah for things like that it's irrelevant sorry

dusty prairie Dec 23, 2020, 4:37 AM

#

thank god, I made 0 effort to use quads xD You guys are awesome, thanks for the help!

mild rune Dec 23, 2020, 6:49 AM

#

@versed lichen Are we allowed to use 8k Textures on this game?

#

this terrain mesh is so large that no matter how well I seam the UV map, I can't fit everything in a way that doesn't distort. But I wouldn't have this problem if I could simply map everything to an 8k texture

versed lichen Dec 23, 2020, 6:52 AM

#

Allowed yes, but highly discouraged

#

better to have multiple 4K

rose wolf Dec 25, 2020, 12:49 AM

#

wondering if theres any proof of lag when using an audio listener and reverb surface?

rose wolf Dec 25, 2020, 1:48 AM

#

also, for doing reflections, has there been proof in using a projector having better performance than just using a realtime reflection probe for light projections

sour seal Dec 26, 2020, 5:22 AM

#

Question uhh

#

I made a world back when vrchat first came out, it's all of twilight town from kingdom hearts 2 (all of it) and back then I could load into the level no issues, now I load in and I get 1 fps

#

What gives?

rose wolf Dec 26, 2020, 5:24 AM

#

what do you mean by "loading in now" as to what it was before? did you update it since?

sour seal Dec 26, 2020, 5:27 AM

#

No I've not touched it since vr chat came out

#

When I enter the level I get a solid 3 fps

astral trout Dec 26, 2020, 5:27 AM

#

what version of unity is this world? unity 5.6.3p1

#

a lot of things have changed since then and worlds in 5.6.3p1 can have a fair bit of issues

sour seal Dec 26, 2020, 5:27 AM

#

The original unity from back then

#

I never finished it because the teleporter stopped working and nobody knew how to finish

#

Is it impossible to migrate it to new ask?

#

Sdk*

astral trout Dec 26, 2020, 5:29 AM

#

yeah its possible to update to the latest version, but if you're coming from more than 1 major unity version behind, it might be a bit difficult

#

Might be best to export as much of the project you can and import it to a fresh project on the latest supported unity version and sdk

#

rather than trying to upgrade the existing project

sour seal Dec 26, 2020, 5:30 AM

#

Alrighty, yeah I just wish I can complete it one day

#

It's every area of twilight town linked by teleporters

astral trout Dec 26, 2020, 5:30 AM

#

what is the world id if i may ask?

sour seal Dec 26, 2020, 5:31 AM

#

But one teleporter out of spawn only respawns you back into spawn, every other year works, and never could fix it

#

It's private

#

Never could fix the issue back then

shrewd harbor Dec 26, 2020, 3:56 PM

#

Hey, I'm plugging away on optimizing my latest map, still a lot to learn on my end, but I'm concentrating on world size for now. One of the asset packs I'm using uses .asset texture arrays, and are quite large (3 files totaling 55MB in build viewer). Any way to reduce the size of these files?

grave frost Dec 27, 2020, 11:42 AM

#

Is there a maximum file size for worlds?

cold prairie Dec 27, 2020, 11:58 AM

#

shrewd harbor Hey, I'm plugging away on optimizing my latest map, still a lot to learn on my e...

As far as I know the main way would be to just compress the original images you are creating the texture array from

cold prairie Dec 27, 2020, 11:58 AM

#

grave frost Is there a maximum file size for worlds?

https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/submitting-a-world-to-be-made-public
"If your world is very large in filesize, we may ask you to reduce the size of the world and remove it from Public in the meantime. Try to keep your worlds under 200MB."

VRChat

World Creation, Optimization, and Community Labs Tips

Want to make your world public? You've come to the right place. There's a few things you should take into consideration before submitting your world to Community Labs. Make sure you read all of this! Failure to do so may result in your world being taken down, or never leaving Community Labs! If your...

grave frost Dec 27, 2020, 1:02 PM

#

cool thanks

tranquil zephyr Dec 27, 2020, 11:23 PM

#

have they ever even asked..? there are tons of worlds that go wayyy above 200. some ive seen go up to 500!

cold prairie Dec 27, 2020, 11:25 PM

#

That's why it says may

#

If your world has a good reason to be over 200 mb or it goes unnoticed it won't get taken private

tranquil zephyr Dec 27, 2020, 11:25 PM

#

yeah i just mention it since it doesnt feel like its ever been asked

cold prairie Dec 27, 2020, 11:26 PM

#

But if you have a world that's just a empty plane with 300 mb size then yeah...

shrewd harbor Dec 28, 2020, 12:11 AM

#

I'm trying to diagnose some performance issues in a world of mine, but I can't see anything outstanding that could be causing it. In VR, the FPS basically swings back and forth between 60 and 120 FPS every 2 - 3 seconds. I've seen similar performance issues in a ton of worlds where FPS swings wildly, but it's always down to 50% of whatever the headset refresh is (when I use my CV1 it swings between 45 and 90 FPS). I've been doing some testing with the profiler, and it the only thing I see spiking up frametime is VSync.

#

Is Vsync really the root cause of this? Is this known behaviour?
Some SS:

📎 unknown.png

#

📎 unknown.png

#

(I've done all the typical optimization steps in this world, combining meshes, baked lighting, occlusion culling. Only thing I haven't done is delete some faces on objects the player will never see)

versed lichen Dec 28, 2020, 12:17 AM

#

that's a lot of batches

#

207 textures ?

shrewd harbor Dec 28, 2020, 12:21 AM

#

All of my materials are set for GPU instancing, but, you're right, I didn't see that before, 207 is definitely too high

#

This is the view from that frame:

📎 unknown.png

versed lichen Dec 28, 2020, 12:22 AM

#

Did you setup occlusion culling ?

shrewd harbor Dec 28, 2020, 12:22 AM

#

The only thing that stands out as potentially causing that high number of textures, is the monitor on that front desk is from an asset pack that uses big texture arrays for all of their objects, so that monitor might be causing it to load the textures for every item in the array?

#

Occlusion culling is baked

versed lichen Dec 28, 2020, 12:25 AM

#

yep, but there's still 500+ unaccounted batches

shrewd harbor Dec 28, 2020, 12:35 AM

#

Time to go batch hunting

astral trout Dec 28, 2020, 2:23 AM

#

while those draw call numbers are a tad high, you should also disable vsync in unity editor to get a better idea of your expected performance in game

#

Edit > Project Settings > Quality > V Sync Count: Don't Sync.

shrewd harbor Dec 28, 2020, 3:46 PM

#

Perfect, thanks for the direction!

So, I've started digging in on those batches this morning, and they are all in RenderForward.RenderLoopJob. I think I'm going to have to sit down and plug through some youtube tutorials on all this, but, if I'm understanding what I'm seeing here, these objects are not being statically batched when they should be.

📎 unknown.png

#

All of the objects specifically mentioned in this list, include this message on the Inspector view:

📎 unknown.png

shrewd harbor Dec 28, 2020, 4:09 PM

#

I think I found the issue, reflection probes were affecting how it statically batched objects. I tested disabling the probes and cut the batches in half, and reduced draw calls by over 200.

📎 unknown.png

astral trout Dec 28, 2020, 4:18 PM

#

oh yeah, when you have multiple reflection probes, unity cant batch meshes that are affected by different reflection probes together

shrewd harbor Dec 28, 2020, 5:48 PM

#

Thanks again for the tips. I'm definitely going to need to dig deeper still, as I'm still seeing more or less the exact same FPS swings, even after all of the optimization I've done thus far. I feel like it might be staying at max FPS slightly more often now, but it's hard to tell when it's async warping all of my pretty parallel lines every 2 seconds

astral trout Dec 28, 2020, 6:09 PM

#

Its still a lot of draw calls, and looking at your frame debugger, your scene is made up of a lot of cubes? might want to consider merging meshes together

#

though, if you made it all in unity, you're going to have to find some unity tools to merge meshes

#

I think probuilder might be able to do it for you? but I don't really have much experience using it

#

I use mesh baker and mesh combine studio 2 if i need to do it in unity, but those are paid tools.

shrewd harbor Dec 28, 2020, 6:13 PM

#

Makes sense! I built this world 100% in unity, using probuilder. I've taken a single pass on it so far merging meshes that make sense to, but I can definitely go further and merge a lot more together

astral trout Dec 28, 2020, 6:13 PM

#

ah yeah if you're already using probuilder then you want to go ahead and merge as much as you can

#

but be smart about it so that you merge objects in groups that's conducive to occlusion culling

shrewd harbor Dec 28, 2020, 6:15 PM

#

Oh, absolutely, I've been trying to keep that in mind with what I've done so far. I've learned so much since starting this map, there's some areas I could just remake to reduce the number of individual meshes

astral trout Dec 28, 2020, 6:16 PM

#

you could also benefit from some atlasing of materials too, judging by the number of set pass calls

shrewd harbor Dec 28, 2020, 6:17 PM

#

I'll have to teach myself how to do that, haha, but, good to know. Ideally I'll do everything I can to improve this world, so the next project I start I can keep all this in mind right from the start

astral trout Dec 28, 2020, 6:19 PM

#

not sure if probuilder has any texture atlasing tools builtin, might have to do it manually, ie. combining 2 textures together and changing the uv maps accordingly

#

also when measuring performance, you'll want to pay more attention to the frame timings rather than just fps, there are some settings for that in steam vr

#

the reason you see FPS swings is because you are probably right at the threshold for 120 fps

#

when your frame timings drop below the required for 120 fps, vr will automatically drop to half and use reprojection

#

90 fps = 11.1ms
120 fps = 8.3ms
144 fps = 6.9ms

shrewd harbor Dec 28, 2020, 6:33 PM

#

Ahh! Thank you, that explains it. I have to guess then I'm just dropping barely below the threshold\

astral trout Dec 28, 2020, 6:36 PM

#

more or less, i've noticed that reprojection kicks in for me at 90 fps around 10-10.5ms, but its probably because of tiny spikes that push it over often enough

shrewd harbor Dec 28, 2020, 11:03 PM

#

Alright, it's definitely running better than it was before, and I've shaved off nearly 100Mb off my lightmaps. I'd call that a win. Just need to clean up some occlusion culling issues, then I should be good to go.

livid bolt Dec 31, 2020, 5:58 PM

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Is there a way to make it so that canvases don't get culled? If I don't want a mesh renderer to cull, I can just turn off "Dynamic Occluded" but there is no such option for canvases

quiet geode Dec 31, 2020, 7:48 PM

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i thought it culled if you had the game object set to occludee static. Leave that unchecked for your canvas game object. That might work

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uless u mean a canvas on a non static object still get culled even when occludee static is off

lilac saddle Jan 3, 2021, 3:27 AM

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how the fuck does occlusion work

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i have this gigantic occlusion cube

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and it doesn't work

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📎 unknown.png

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📎 unknown.png

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why the fuck is this visible?

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various bits pop in when viewed from below in spite of this gigantic cube being in the way

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and to show that the cube is doing most of the work, this is how it looks when i bake occlusion without it

📎 unknown.png

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so why is it being dicky? why is unity not seeing a massive solid object and calculating its occlusive range correctly?

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📎 unknown.png

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look at the size of this cube

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look at it

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what is unity getting confused about?

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and yes, the canvas shown in the screenshot is marked static (as are the other canvases that pop in)

astral trout Jan 3, 2021, 3:41 AM

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whats your settings?

lilac saddle Jan 3, 2021, 3:42 AM

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5, .25

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100 on backface

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but this is a gigantic cube with no holes in it and no way for the camera to possibly see around it

astral trout Jan 3, 2021, 3:43 AM

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try changing smallest occluder to 1

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also ideally put occlusion areas on places where people will actually be

lilac saddle Jan 3, 2021, 3:45 AM

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no change

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📎 unknown.png

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📎 unknown.png

astral trout Jan 3, 2021, 3:58 AM

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is each menu its own canvas?

lilac saddle Jan 3, 2021, 3:59 AM

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yes

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but this isn't the only example

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bake has jumped up massively in size weirdly

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oh, smallest occluder

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📎 unknown.png

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📎 unknown.png

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all the way on the other side of the map

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totally occluded multiple times over

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yet unity thinks otherwise

astral trout Jan 3, 2021, 4:04 AM

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i mean, it depends on how your meshes are joined

lilac saddle Jan 3, 2021, 4:04 AM

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if i turn the camera slightly

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📎 unknown.png

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the statues are individual meshes

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i don't see any reason for them to not be occluded by multiple walls/ occluder cubes

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like i can try putting in a bunch of cubes where all the walls are

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but i don't understand the first example

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how do i occlude different areas of the map from one another?

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i don't really want to manually do it on events since pickups/ screens might not update correctly

astral trout Jan 3, 2021, 4:07 AM

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have you tried putting down occlusion areas yet

lilac saddle Jan 3, 2021, 4:08 AM

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i read about it but it read as if it were exclusive to non-static objects

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i've really gotta go to bed (4am) but ye

astral trout Jan 3, 2021, 4:11 AM

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these articles go in depth on how occlusion culling works https://blogs.unity3d.com/2013/12/02/occlusion-culling-in-unity-4-3-the-basics/

Unity Technologies Blog

Occlusion Culling in Unity 4.3: The Basics - Unity Technologies Blog

The following blog post was written by Jasin Bushnaief of Umbra Software to explain the updates to occlusion culling in Unity Pro 4.3. Unity 4.3 includes a plethora of improvements. One of the completely re-implemented subsystems is occlusion culling. Not only has the interface been simplified and the culling runtime itself revamped, a number of...

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its old but i expect most of it is still relevant as its still the same library

lilac saddle Jan 3, 2021, 4:46 PM

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i didn't really find anything of particular use in it unfortunately

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i added cubes on all the walls

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and while it's generally good

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there's still some weird spots

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📎 unknown.png

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📎 unknown.png

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circled area should obv be super occluded

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i can try the occlusion volume thing but i'd really like to know what unity is doing here so i can just do normal occlusion culling

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like this isn't an awkward scenario

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i have a ton of flexibility and i'm happy to do it the way unity wants

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like i can even get up close to the occluder below the upper area

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📎 unknown.png

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📎 unknown.png

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and it just looks straight through it

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so the issue is not that the occluder is too close or too far from the camera

lilac saddle Jan 3, 2021, 6:51 PM

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epic

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📎 unknown.png

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📎 unknown.png

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there's so many occluders in the way

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and yet 😔

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📎 unknown.png

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should be blocked by the stairs, the colliders around the tunnel, the floor of the other area...

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is this why void club uses teleports

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because occlusion doesn't work

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📎 unknown.png

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this hole is tiny

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📎 unknown.png

ocean ibex Jan 3, 2021, 9:00 PM

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Try occlusion portals and trigger them on/off with OnEnter trigger. They seem to work sometimes

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at least they work for static meshes, with players in game it seems to not be perfect

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@lilac saddle

lilac saddle Jan 3, 2021, 9:11 PM

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i'll try that, thanks

rain marsh Jan 3, 2021, 9:51 PM

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is there a difference between having 100 meshes vs having 100 meshes joined together as one mesh? Because if the 100 meshes were joined it would be come 1 mesh, but none of the combined meshes are connect to each other so it is still 100 objects...

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i want to make an object break apart into a bunch of smaller objects so im wondering what the difference in performance would be if its 1 mesh of 100 pieces vs 100 meshes, one for each piece.

lilac saddle Jan 3, 2021, 10:00 PM

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there really is fuck all about Occlusion Portals on google

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gonna try it out in a test scene with multiple clients...

versed lichen Jan 3, 2021, 10:09 PM

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@rain marsh One object is one object, one hundred objects are one hundred objects

lilac saddle Jan 3, 2021, 10:11 PM

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the camera has to be inside the occlusion portal rather than it being an occluder that can be toggled

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In the Scene view, move the Camera to a position where it is directly in front of the Occlusion Portal.

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this is wrong 😔

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📎 unknown.png

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📎 unknown.png

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but after making the cube bigger it now occludes from the outside as well

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bitch make up your mind

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if you're too small to be an occluder, then don't ever occlude

astral trout Jan 4, 2021, 2:07 AM

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if you have it on default settings for that bake with smallest occluder 5, then obviously the cube is probably too small...

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the documentation describes the system as conservative, and that using a smaller value for smallest occluder will also make it less conservative. if something isnt being occluded, you can try lowering the value to see if it helps. In addition, using occlusion areas is helpful because you are telling unity that these areas are where occlusion should be primarily considered, and if you have disjointed areas like what you are trying to do, it is especially useful if you are trying to have less conservative settings as unity will only precalculate higher precision data for the occlusion areas, and not the intermediary spaces.

digital ermine Jan 4, 2021, 6:15 AM

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Are there any general optimization issues involving terrains with VRC? I hear they are rather unoptimized but want to make sure because I could really use their functionality.

rose wolf Jan 4, 2021, 6:19 AM

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i mean, usually theyre fine. but i have seen people have troubles with its uv mapping and light map uv mapping

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which makes them harder to optimize

digital ermine Jan 4, 2021, 6:19 AM

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I will be hiding the terrain itself, I only need the grass settings to work.

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I'm not going to get a better result just using particle systems in blender, so i'm sort of avoiding that route.

rose wolf Jan 4, 2021, 6:20 AM

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then id assume youd be safe, as long as the meshes are seperated in some form

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particles can cause optimization issues. unless youre very particle savvy (not me lol)

digital ermine Jan 4, 2021, 6:21 AM

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yes, I am trying to spread heavy grass onto a large area of land so it's certainly not optimized to use blender particle systems lol

rose wolf Jan 4, 2021, 6:22 AM

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oh my lol

astral trout Jan 4, 2021, 6:24 AM

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terrain is fine and works well with occlusion culling if set up right, but how are you planning on hiding the terrain? transparent texture?

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you want to make sure draw instanced in terrain setting is checked, and adjust detail resolution per patch to reduce draw calls

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unity terrain does a pretty decent job at batching detail meshes, I have a pretty heavy scene here with thousands of grass/flower detail meshes of 6 different types, and the difference in draw calls with them all on and off is just 33, and has a ~~negligible~~ very minimal impact on performance.
https://nyanpa.su/i/USfd1Zbc.jpg

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of course, detail meshes can significantly increase polygon count in your scene so take care to keep that in mind.
you can also adjust the detail density and render range on terrain settings accordingly

latent relic Jan 5, 2021, 1:16 PM

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is there something within unity that lets me set up pipelines for desktop and quest so i can turn off shaders and optimise things in a manage-able way ?

rose wolf Jan 5, 2021, 1:25 PM

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@latent relic wdym?

latent relic Jan 5, 2021, 1:27 PM

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so lets say you have a map with a bunch of textures and shaders

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and for desktop when i build i want it to have everything at 1k and shaders on

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but on quest i want to build with shaders off and everything like 256 resolution

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is that a thing >?

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im coming from other game engines

rose wolf Jan 5, 2021, 1:28 PM

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correct madam

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was there a problem making you unable to seperate for some odd reason? or is this a base querY?

latent relic Jan 5, 2021, 1:28 PM

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for other tools you can create like a build target and it knows what optimisations to do when you build

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otherwise you would have to make 2 versions of the world side by side ?

rose wolf Jan 5, 2021, 1:29 PM

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well for one, the sdk builder isnt responsible for any optimizations, thats on you. but technically you have 2 worlds of the same world, one is better for pc, and one is better for quest. does this make sence?

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imagine 2 servers in 1 server, one is only accessible with a unique password (pc) and the other is accessed with another unique password (quest)

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they cannot intertwine

latent relic Jan 5, 2021, 1:32 PM

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im essentially building the same unity map to two different destinations, just with low poly/textures

rose wolf Jan 5, 2021, 1:32 PM

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correct madam

astral trout Jan 5, 2021, 1:32 PM

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@latent relic https://github.com/JordoVR/EasyQuestSwitch

GitHub

JordoVR/EasyQuestSwitch

EasyQuestSwitch is a Unity editor tool developed for VRChat world creators, it can automate changes to components within a scene as soon as the build platform is changed from PC to Android (for Ocu...

latent relic Jan 5, 2021, 1:34 PM

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omg yes :D this is exactly what i wanted

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thanks

astral trout Jan 5, 2021, 1:36 PM

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also if you havent, you can set up a local cache server so that unity doesn't have to reimport all your files every time you switch platforms https://docs.unity3d.com/2018.4/Documentation/Manual/CacheServer.html

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but also take note that there is currently an issue with switching platforms via the sdk, and its recommended that you instead switch through unity's build settings in the mean time

lilac saddle Jan 5, 2021, 7:56 PM

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hey, im having a weird issue where VRC is ignoring my LOD and shadowmask settings. I have a default quality set and even removed all other qualities, yet vrc always changes it.. this is SDK3.. anyone else had this happen?

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https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/eN2y9tJpOxEHhI0z-GIbPVbtlO08_cj44-dq8UHRqHM/%3Fwidth%3D705%26height%3D447/https/media.discordapp.net/attachments/686722418861146149/796083850395648070/unknown.png

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https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/686722418861146149/796084008512782336/unknown.png?width=665&height=467

livid dragon Jan 6, 2021, 12:20 AM

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so my world which is nothing more than 3 planes is 135 mb

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im asking for help

cold prairie Jan 6, 2021, 12:22 AM

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https://github.com/oneVR/VRWorldToolkit/releases
You can import this and check VRWorld Toolkit > World Debugger to see what is causing it to be that huge

livid dragon Jan 6, 2021, 12:26 AM

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okay thank you so much

cold prairie Jan 6, 2021, 12:33 AM

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lilac saddle hey, im having a weird issue where VRC is ignoring my LOD and shadowmask setting...

You can't really change the quality settings they will always abide by the settings pinned in #development-advanced

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If those are the settings you mean

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@livid dragon if it's not directly obvious from the world debugger what would be causing it feel free to show some pictures

livid dragon Jan 6, 2021, 12:40 AM

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its just that file

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i have other worlds and theyre not that big

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i just recreated it on another file and it was fine

cold prairie Jan 6, 2021, 12:41 AM

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Yeah that usually works if it's an option for you

feral plover Jan 6, 2021, 5:07 AM

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When I'm baking a build, the SDK is only grabbing all the assets and their dependencies, right? Any files in the project folder that aren't used or depended upon don't get included?

cold prairie Jan 6, 2021, 5:11 AM

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Basically yeah
Check the world debugger in my world tools if you want to see all the files included in your latest build
https://github.com/oneVR/VRWorldToolkit/releases

austere ember Jan 6, 2021, 1:08 PM

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i said this in #world-development but ive got this
68% of the textures used in the scene have not been crunch compressed. Crunch compression can significantly reduce the size of the world download. It can be found in the textures import settings.

astral trout Jan 6, 2021, 1:09 PM

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thats just an optimization tip, you can reduce your world size significantly by crunch compressing textures

austere ember Jan 6, 2021, 1:10 PM

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so its not a necessary thing to do?

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since my download size is 85 MB anyway

lilac saddle Jan 6, 2021, 4:50 PM

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austere ember so its not a necessary thing to do?

Not necessary but I tried it myself and I recommend you trying it. You barely loose any details.

white spade Jan 9, 2021, 8:13 AM

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OK.. Question for all those versed in unity, I'm trying to import my world model from sketchup, but after extracting the textures and materials, none of them are showing up on my model. What gives?

rose wolf Jan 9, 2021, 9:05 AM

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@white spade is obj?

white spade Jan 9, 2021, 9:25 AM

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skp

rose wolf Jan 9, 2021, 6:36 PM

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ive never even seen a skp work in unity before @white spade , but if it worked so far, try replacing the materials

mild rune Jan 10, 2021, 12:21 AM

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Can you have multiple Google Seurat meshes in one scene? And create a smooth transition when moving the camera between each Seurat mesh?

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@lilac saddle That's beautiful ^^

torn crypt Jan 10, 2021, 1:31 AM

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mild rune Can you have multiple Google Seurat meshes in one scene? And create a smooth tr...

I can't think of a reason why you couldn't, but I'm not sure what you mean by creating a smooth transition when moving the camera between the meshes. Do you mean when someone leaves the headbox bounds?

mild rune Jan 10, 2021, 1:31 AM

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yes

torn crypt Jan 10, 2021, 1:32 AM

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Easiest method would probably be to teleport the player when they leave the sweet spot, but depending on the scale of your environment - that might not be ideal. In those cases, you might have to entertain a solution where the player remains within the headbox bounds, and the meshes themselves change/toggle. Not sure how you'd pull a smooth transition though, you could fade to black for a moment during the switches at least

mild rune Jan 10, 2021, 1:32 AM

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you might have to entertain a solution where the player remains within the headbox bounds, and the meshes themselves change/toggle 🤔

torn crypt Jan 10, 2021, 1:40 AM

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I'd honestly opt for teleporting as long as your Seurat meshes/environments aren't large enough that you'd be teleporting players into NaN land to make it work. Not sure what you're exactly trying to accomplish or how it relates to other players in the instance tho!

mild rune Jan 10, 2021, 2:28 AM

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@torn crypt is there a limit to the box dimensions for seurat calculation? What's the largest you can generate from?

torn crypt Jan 10, 2021, 2:55 AM

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mild rune <@!361205965468467212> is there a limit to the box dimensions for seurat calcula...

I honestly haven't tried extending beyond "typical" bounds in quick tests, but how it holds up is likely gonna be dependent on your environment, your settings at capture + the parameters you're using when you generate the mesh.

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The headbox seemed sorta akin to the sweet spot of speakers or the spot where the distance between the speakers and your ears are equidistant. The further you deviated from that sweet spot - the less accurate the representation becomes (and in Seurat's case, where you'll start to see distortion or seams)

mild rune Jan 10, 2021, 2:56 AM

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does seurat work with realtime lighting?

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or do u always have to bake if you use it

torn crypt Jan 10, 2021, 2:57 AM

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It'd be baked into the texture that the mesh uses. So yeah, you could use real-time lighting in the scene that you plan to capture (but then it effectively becomes baked via Seurat)

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I wouldn't use real-time lighting WITH Seurat meshes because it obviously wouldn't cast shadows properly or anything

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Let me know how it works if you test with large bounds tho - I've been curious about using Seurat as a way to optimize distant vista assets/landscapes that are far outside of the playable area.

mild rune Jan 10, 2021, 3:21 AM

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@torn crypt Ah I understand. I'll let you know, but first I have to learn how to use Seurat in the first place, and there isn't a whole lot of educational material out there so it might take me a while

mild rune Jan 11, 2021, 7:10 AM

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@torn crypt-Senpai, do you know if Seurat captures its images after post processing or before?

torn crypt Jan 11, 2021, 7:46 AM

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mild rune <@!361205965468467212>-Senpai, do you know if Seurat captures its images after p...

I think it may inherit PPFX if it's on the camera you've also put the headbox capture component on, but I haven't tested it recently. It lets you export the captured images out in HDR presumably so you can handle post-processing effects like bloom from the Seurat mesh (bcs you wouldn't want to bake that into the capture) so prob safe to disable or remove post-processing from the cam when you go to capture

lilac saddle Jan 11, 2021, 7:43 PM

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does anyone properly understand occlusion baking?

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📎 unknown.png

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i redesigned my lobby to prevent this shit from happening and it still does it

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📎 unknown.png

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the way i've laid the connecting portion out was to guarantee occlusion

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yet it just ignores the walls

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📎 unknown.png

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and i put in giant occlusion cubes along each individual wall to make sure

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how do normal games handle this?

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occlusion just seems to get worse the further the distance is

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📎 unknown.png

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the tunnel here is a magic occlusion dodging device

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i don't want to have to rely on occlusion portals and manually doing stuff where it absolutely isn't necessary

mild rune Jan 11, 2021, 9:48 PM

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@torn crypt but do shadows and baked lighting get baked into the Seurat mesh? I'd imagine if not there would be no way to make them look right, considering the geometry of the resultant mesh is too simplistic and it relies on alpha cutout

feral plover Jan 12, 2021, 12:19 AM

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This guide recommends that I disable skybox lighting, but I don't understand why 🤔
https://unity3d.com/how-to/optimize-mobile-VR-games

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Is it doing more than just picking an average color to create some ambient light?

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I'm also not sure how to disable Environment lighting. I can't disable it, only pick one and turn intensity down to 0

mild rune Jan 12, 2021, 4:38 AM

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what is HDRP?

torn crypt Jan 12, 2021, 10:04 AM

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mild rune <@!361205965468467212> but do shadows and baked lighting get baked into the Seur...

Yeah! You got it - you basically want your static scene/environment to be production final before you capture it bcs what you see is effectively what you get there.

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HDRP is the high definition render pipeline, we don't/can't use it in VRChat but you can use it in your source scene for a Seurat capture if that's what you're getting at. (You could even use an offline renderer for a Seurat capture if you wanted to - think there's only a Maya plugin though)

torn crypt Jan 12, 2021, 10:06 AM

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lilac saddle i don't want to have to rely on occlusion portals and manually doing stuff where...

occlusion portals could probably benefit you in the case of your level design. difficult to see what's going on in those stills though - this might help you: https://gitlab.com/s-ilent/SCSS/-/wikis/Other/Occlusion-Culling

GitLab

Occlusion Culling · Wiki · s-ilent / Silent Cel Shading Shader

A surface shader for Unity providing cel-shading. (Forward rendering only)

lilac saddle Jan 12, 2021, 10:33 AM

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i'll take a look through this after work, thanks

nimble mortar Jan 12, 2021, 12:10 PM

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would it be a bad idea optimizing wise to disable a area locally as a player leaves it?

versed lichen Jan 12, 2021, 5:53 PM

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It's better to occlude

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Disabling/enabling things is not great performance wise

mild rune Jan 12, 2021, 8:08 PM

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Single Mesh Single Draw Call vs. occlusion?

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does it depend on the complexity of what would be occluded?

versed lichen Jan 12, 2021, 8:08 PM

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yes

mild rune Jan 12, 2021, 8:14 PM

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@versed lichen is there any way to get the main camera to display meshes that are very far away? I'm losing vision on some of my mountains in this scene because they're too far away from the main camera

versed lichen Jan 12, 2021, 8:15 PM

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Distance Clip > Far

mild rune Jan 12, 2021, 8:15 PM

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where is that

versed lichen Jan 12, 2021, 8:15 PM

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In the camera

mild rune Jan 12, 2021, 8:15 PM

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okay im going to take a look

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this thing?

📎 unknown.png

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okay it works

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does this affect performance? I'm only really going to use this camera for Seurat capture

versed lichen Jan 12, 2021, 8:17 PM

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It does yes

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Make sure to set your reference camera in the vrcworld object

mild rune Jan 12, 2021, 8:18 PM

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okay

nimble mortar Jan 13, 2021, 2:17 AM

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Well so far I have been trying to optimize a bunch, any other tips that might help? just frustrating having 25-30 fps with 24 people in a world even tho they are in different places

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I used occlusion already and it seems to work I believe

astral trout Jan 13, 2021, 2:23 AM

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what kind of performance load does your world have in general? In terms of draw calls, polygons, etc in those areas. You can check that in unity with unity profiler ctrl+7
honestly with that many people 30 fps is quite common depending on your hardware and how heavy your world is, and how heavy those avatars are as well.

nimble mortar Jan 13, 2021, 2:35 AM

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hmm where do I check that exactly?

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@astral trout

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I opened the profiler and see alot of info

astral trout Jan 13, 2021, 2:38 AM

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https://nyanpa.su/i/hsnh1aoN.png

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you want to play the scene, and make sure you have a camera active

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then click on somewhere in the timeline for rendering

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and it'll show you those stats below

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those would be of interests to see how heavy the scene is from that camera's point of few, and potentially show what could be done to optimize

nimble mortar Jan 13, 2021, 2:40 AM

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standing in part of the world with cyanemu rn

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📎 unknown.png

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not sure I understand too much tbh

astral trout Jan 13, 2021, 2:41 AM

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click on somewhere in rendering

nimble mortar Jan 13, 2021, 2:43 AM

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📎 unknown.png

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got this to come up

astral trout Jan 13, 2021, 2:44 AM

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thats a fair bit of draw calls, and set pass calls too

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I take it you have a lot of materials and separate meshes in your world?

nimble mortar Jan 13, 2021, 2:45 AM

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I did try to mesh combine wit hunity

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196 materials I think or less

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tbh if this could be fixed or helped I would pay someone to learn the ways LOL it's frustrating af

astral trout Jan 13, 2021, 2:46 AM

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in general I try to aim for 200~ draw calls tops

nimble mortar Jan 13, 2021, 2:50 AM

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so what would be the best way to fix that?

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combining meshes and getting rid of materials

rose wolf Jan 13, 2021, 2:50 AM

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correct

astral trout Jan 13, 2021, 2:56 AM

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do you have a lot of pick ups?

mild rune Jan 13, 2021, 2:57 AM

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@nimble mortar why don't you create texture atlasses and combine some of your meshes?

nimble mortar Jan 13, 2021, 2:57 AM

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less then 10 pickups I believe

astral trout Jan 13, 2021, 2:58 AM

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are your static meshes set as static?

nimble mortar Jan 13, 2021, 2:58 AM

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I tried meshing a few things and combining but sometimes it would break lighting so I was worried

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and yeah

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they are

astral trout Jan 13, 2021, 2:59 AM

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what were you using to combine meshes in unity?

mild rune Jan 13, 2021, 5:42 AM

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PrObUiLdEr

lean prawn Jan 13, 2021, 5:38 PM

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can someone tell me why the heck in my sdk3 world even after adding a vrc ui shape component and having my canvas in the default or player layer my users STILL cannot click buttons without opening there menu or at all???

rose wolf Jan 13, 2021, 5:42 PM

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@lean prawn ask udon

lean prawn Jan 13, 2021, 5:42 PM

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👍

feral plover Jan 13, 2021, 6:27 PM

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Does anyone know about how expensive performance-wise are UI canvases? Does each add a draw call? They don't use a material, just a sprite, so I'd hope they'd be cheap. But the question is whether they're cheaper than a button with a mesh

austere ember Jan 14, 2021, 4:28 AM

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how to i optimize tree rendering?
cuz one of my friends said that u can optimize it by making trees only appear in the players directional PoV.

rose wolf Jan 14, 2021, 4:30 AM

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@austere ember that sounds like occulsion culling

austere ember Jan 14, 2021, 4:32 AM

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how i do?

rose wolf Jan 14, 2021, 4:33 AM

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go to window up top. and i think under rendering, therell be a thing called “occulsion”. that tab will allow you to bake occulsion culling and help remove unseen treea