avatar-rigging

[lavish tusk]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[pale pumice]

removing?

[sturdy smelt]

How do I fix this?

[pale pumice]

looks like a modeling problem

[brazen island]

nah its wrong bones orientation so the last one ends up wrong since theres no next one to go to. dont know any easy fix tho

[pale pumice]

I don't see why that last bit is angled, given the visible bones. Put it in blender and inspect it

[brazen island]

unity doesnt show last bone orientation and previous bones are just connecting two dots. in blender this model probly looks like this #avatar-rigging message

[sturdy smelt]

How do I fix it?

[lavish tusk]

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[pale pumice]

don't remove twist bones, set them up in Unity too, they're great

[lavish tusk]

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[pale pumice]

by "place the bones" you mean in the rig setup?

[lavish tusk]

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[pale pumice]

by "not connected" what are you referring to?

[lavish tusk]

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[frank timber]

i need help on my rig its my first time rigging, and in edit mode the rig in down, in object mode the rig is offset but up right

[lavish tusk]

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[lavish tusk]

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[robust crescent]

id throw it in mixamo and cleanup after (avoid having the cape in it tho)

[pale pumice]

so, unity will guess. If it guesses wrong, put the right bones in the right slots.
The laying down thing in Blender is weird, probably you've got an unapplied transform. I'd edit the armature, select all bones and somewhere in the menu, reset all transforms.
Then in object mode, select the armature and ctrl+a and apply all transforms.
Make backups

mixamo is a good idea too

[lavish tusk]

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[brazen island]

you need to remove armature/export without it

[lavish tusk]

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[lavish tusk]

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[lavish tusk]

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[lavish tusk]

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[pale pumice]

you have a very weird model here, I'm not sure how to tell you how to fix it from here.

[lavish tusk]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[sturdy smelt]

I feel like i got the bones pretty lined up, but im not sure why it keeps doing this? Is there a easy way to fix it

[pale pumice]

Looks like maybe a weight paint issue, you'd have to check that in blender - basically rotate those bones in pose mode and see what happens

[balmy delta]

better weight painting

[sturdy smelt]

How do I weight paint

[balmy delta]

in blender theres an entire tool for it

[manic brook]

sdk is saying there arent bones mapped, anyone know the issue?

[pale pumice]

you must have a chest bone and shoulder bones, for VRChat.

shoulders go between the chest and upper arms.

[manic brook]

ah okay

is there a way to re import it without having to re do all the configurations

[pale pumice]

Simply overwrite the .fbx file when you export from Blender, it will update.

[manic brook]

ah ok

thanks

[pale pumice]

(assuming you didn't unpack the model prefab in the scene)

[manic brook]

one last thing, the feet go backwards. should i flatten out this bone?

[pale pumice]

I suspect vrchat won't like those being backwards. But view the ideal rig diagram pinned in here.

[manic brook]

thanks

what are the names of the bones? sorry

nvm

[pale pumice]

the names don't really matter, they're just for your reference

[manic brook]

ah

[manic brook]

getting this popup, not getting the "head and feet arent mapped" error thankfully but this is appearing despite the face the armature is set to humanoid?

nevermind getting that issue again

[pale pumice]

in the rig setup window where you can click "configure" to show the mappings, make sure there is no error listed

[manic brook]

there doesnt seem to be any errors

maybe ill just restart unity?

oh wait when i pressed enforce t pose it deleted the left thigh??

[manic brook]

completely remapped all the bones and im back to this

im stuck in a loop

[pale pumice]

maybe show the errors again

[manic brook]

nevermind i reloaded it and the legs have stopped working again

this is really frustrating

oh my god dude

[pale pumice]

the diagram of the model there isn't very useful, can you show the bone mappings in the rig setup, and maybe the bone hierarchy from hips down to head, and the shoulders and upper legs?

it could be just mis-parenting

[manic brook]

wait is the problem those coattail bones i forgot to remove

[pale pumice]

nope, those are fine

[manic brook]

oh ok

[pale pumice]

you can have more bones

I can't quite tell but the shoulders are direct children of the upper chest bone, right?

[manic brook]

yeah

[pale pumice]

ok then all of that looks correct to me

You can also turn off the _end bones by unchecking the option for leaf bones under "armature" in Blender's export dialog... assuming you aren't actually using them.

[manic brook]

oh ok

[pale pumice]

they shouldn't be needed in anything but Physbones, and you can just use the endpoint position value there instead

[manic brook]

but yeah i dont really know whats wrong with it now

[pale pumice]

me either from here

[manic brook]

aw man

[lament forge]

might be a dumb question, but any easy way to make a Blender Model (4.5) ready for FBX/VRChat? i just want most of the useless stuff removed and the Basic Rigging that VRChat needs

[pale pumice]

I guess you could use something like mixamo? I'm not sure, I don't find making an armature hard at all. weight painting is a pain of course.

[green holly]

This.

[soft steeple]

anyone know how to stop the eye bone from rotating the eyeballs out of the eyesocket? this is from a model i bought and proceded to break so this is my first time having to rig/weightpaint an eye

[pale pumice]

The eye bone's head should be at the exact center of rotation, and the bone should be perfectly vertical with 0 bone roll.

usually the center of rotation is the center of the eye sphere.

[soft steeple]

i thought i got it (normal on the left) but when i enable look forward it starts clipping 💔

[pale pumice]

does it rotate properly when you rotate it about the Z axis in Blender?

(and it meets the criteria I said?)

[soft steeple]

theres a bit of clipping when i rotate but i figured it would be good enough for simple eyelook movement, ill send a clip in a second

[pale pumice]

yeah that doesn't look great when you rotate it around Z - you could limit how far it goes in Unity though

or try to move the bone a bit

[soft steeple]

i just added the texture in unity and the uvs are broken too, i think its just the eyes? so ill fix that first 😭

nevermind im just silly

i reset the eye roll in blender so now its working kinda sorta

i did reset it earlier but i think i messed it up again when i was fixing the bones

now the looking straight is correct but the regular unity preview is not

[soft steeple]

i fixed it by deleting the old model in unity and importing a new one entirely (rather than overwriting)

[brave dock]

can someone get this model to actually be connected to the rig?? i don't know why but it just wont do it. and please send it back to me after your done.. and TRY your best to not let the hair interfere with the rig please.

thank you if you do so!

[pale pumice]

add an armature modifier to the mesh, weight paint it.

otherwise head over to the VRC Traders discord to commission an artist, you'll just get scammers around here.

[winged harbor]

[pale pumice]

mm yeah - looks like it's got some weight paint but the bone names don't match with the vertex group names. Could be fixed, might just be easier to redo it.

[brave dock]

I DID IT

YES

finally

[pale pumice]

neato

[muted path]

i put a phot because i wasnt gonna copy and paste it again but this is my current problem

[oblique furnace]

Try mixamo

[muted path]

It’s better to avoid mixamo all together because of their poor quality and designs for their ai detection. I personally use auto rig pro but my hands on this model are bent and have no paints I just figured everything out about a hour or so ago so I’m now doing it better. I intend on using this as a in game model for a game as well as a avatar in the future I thought I would just post it here in case someone knew something I didn’t but thanks for responding in general. I appreciate the idea. (Sorry in advance if I come off rude in any way it’s not my intention)

I do wanna say tho mixamo is good for free simple animations

Which is always a plus

[oblique furnace]

I usually do mixamo for like the base weight painting because blender's auto heat mapping blows. Clothes, I have an addon that matches the skin as well as other bones not yet used or I can just transfer weight painting if there are no new bones being added to the base model. For finger's blender's auto heat mapping is better, but setting up the skeleton can suck

Cleanup is inevitable tho

[muted path]

I have attempted it in the past to do mixamo with the weights but I actually had the opposite where mixamo blew up the clothes and parts and auto rig pro kept it good and I prefer to do most the work and have the skeleton automatic. Mainly because I want to learn weights and how to make full high quality high poly characters Mixamo is a one-size-fits-all rig. You get: Bones in slightly wrong places for your character. Limited or no facial bones if your model isn’t humanoid standard. Also Mixamo generates weights automatically, sure but Shoulders pinch, hips collapse, and hands clip through themselves. You spend hours correcting deformations if you want anything usable in production. But honestly for what I’m going for Mixamo is basically a shortcut. Great for prototypes or placeholder models, but: You’re sacrificing control, precision, and realism. If you want professional animation for games, films, or cinematic work? It’s just not enough. (At least in my personal opinion and experience this varies yk)

The main deal breaker is Mixamo rigs lack adaptability:
• You cannot add extra bones for facial expressions, tails, or props.
• No IK/FK switching for complex animations.

Auto-Rig Pro allows full rig customization:
• Add additional bones and control rigs.
• Set up IK/FK systems for natural motion.
• Include facial or secondary motion bones—perfect for cinematic, gaming, or VR projects. Yk. But for lower characters like simple characters nothing intense people may use it for their own projects I am just more looking for a professional level. Though I did enjoy chatting about this topic. I appreciate your attempt at helping.

I have to set up a face rig one more in-depth than the mixamo addon for blender as well)

[oblique furnace]

Im a little confused about your statement about mixamo rigs not being adaptable, because you absolutely can add any bones you want in blender or other 3D modeling software. If you mean as is, sure. It doesn't read your existing skeleton nor an in editor way to add stuff like that, but that has never stopped me personally from adding what I wanted, but it's just a quick base pass which is the hard part imo

[wooden niche]

hi guys im making rotation constraints and fake bones for my avatar to be able to work properly with fbt, do i need to parent the fake bones to their real ones (such as fake leg to real leg, fake chest to real chest)? i find that unless i add a parent constraint to them in unity the avatars mesh does weird stuff, i was wondering if i can do it in blender instead? or will this cause problems?

ok only the legs had problems, im not sure abt the other bones though

[oblique furnace]

What's preventing you from just having there only be 1 armature and not needing the constraints?

The only cases where having fake limbs is really necessary are second sets of appendages or if you want to make a pose system

If your avatar doesn't work with full body out of the gate, then there are some issues that need to be addressed

[wooden niche]

the avatar differs greatly from me irl and i would rather not mess with the avatars proportions

the legs are too short and hip too low

[oblique furnace]

Then yes you would need VRC Rotation Constraints

[wooden niche]

should i put them on all of the bones seperately?

or just a few of them

[oblique furnace]

Well. For example, you don't need to adjust the fingers so not those. Whatever doesn't look right

[wooden niche]

oh i have rotation constraints added already, i just wanted to know how i should parent these

[oblique furnace]

if its up to the shoulders that need to be fixed then you need from hips all the way to shoulders

[wooden niche]

like in the image i have parented the fake hips to the real hips, fake spine to the real spine and so on

[oblique furnace]

That would produce the same results as just using the regular bones

gotta be rotation constraints

[wooden niche]

ohh alr

[oblique furnace]

also not children of the regular bones

needs a whole separate armature

[wooden niche]

hhmmm ok

when i didnt parent the bones to the real ones weird stuff would happen to the mesh, i realised putting a parent constraint on the hips fixed it kindof, but the neck still moved seperate to the head

like they werent connected at all

[oblique furnace]

Im actually second guessing myself now. Im a bit tired. I honestly don't think there's a really good solution to your problem. Calibration is supposed to be the solution. Changing between measure by arms and height depending on the avatar

[wooden niche]

its okk thank you for your help

im not really sure what to do either LOL ive just been trying different things

[fallen trench]

have a weird issue in unity specifically where in play mode it does this, vrchat and animations like gogo and syncdances seem to work fine but its only when it stands (have tried without gogo as well and it still does it)

[fallen trench]

this is my current rig if it helps you help me

[pale pumice]

those heels look kinda high

I don't know how to fix your problem though, I don't have it 'cause I don't use the default standing poses.

[night sage]

would anyone know of riggers for quadruped models?

[pale pumice]

check out the "Virtual Limbs" discord for stuff like that

[soft quail]

how do i fix my arms

[night sage]

would you be able to point me towards them?

wait i think i found it

[pale pumice]

Yes, if you didn't find it

[summer fossil]

Hello everyone, I just wanted to see if anyone might have some advice for when I start rigging an avatar I made which has ball-joints 🙂 I’d like to rig it where the joints rotate but do not bend if possible. I’m also unsure if I should join all of the parts together or keep them separate. Thanks in advance !

[robust crescent]

something like that , you dont want other bone to affect the joint if its ment to rotate around it

was messing around with a idea like that some days ago when i saw this av

[summer fossil]

You’re awesome thank you so much! I looked at so many tutorials but kept getting stumped on where to start

[vestal wyvern]

Hello, when the avatar's shoulders are normal in desktop mode, but drooping in VR mode, is that a rigging fault? Other avatars I've tried do not have drooping shoulders.
There is also an issue when looking up makes the entire body push up and forward, making the character top-toe, and looking down makes the character hunch over. Is that also from faulty rigging? So far most avatars I've tried do it.

[restive garnet]

I'm no expert but that droop might be caused by the angle of your shoulders.

Without seeing it's hard to tell, but that might be a height issue which is separate. Try toggling the “sit/stand” button on the menu. Also remember to set your height in the settings. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't done it in a while but I think you can search for those settings in the large settings menu.

[vestal wyvern]

#avatar-help message
Managed to make a new avatar with the same FBX file as the one with drooping shoulders and they no longer drooped. Must be an old VRChat thing.

Although, the model on the left is from an even older avatar I have.

[restive garnet]

Unfortunately I just don't know, but magical fixes to solutions are always nice to see. Did you try any of the mentioned ideas for the tip-toe/hunch issues?

[wind sigil]

does it work fine when using gesture manager in unity?
if yes, probably a vrchat height issue
if no, your rig is wrong and i think shoulder and chest are supposed to be touching? i’m not completely sure but please go look at vrchat’s example rig

[soft quail]

sorry i probably should have mentioned this

[soft quail]

i have since then successfully re-rigged the avatar and it works fine now.

[wind sigil]

great

[slim shore]

not sure if this is a question to ask here or in avatar help BUT- it's not painted to any other bone, i've checked every single one. it's painted to the correct bone and only the correct bone. no matter what i do it stays like this and i've been trying to figure it out for 2 days straight and i'm so confused :T

[slim shore]

nvm.. always make sure to check the names of ur vertex groups match ur bones

[winged ember]

Is there any documentation or tutorial covering the expected workflow for setting up VRChat bone constraints in Unity? I have helper bones, twist bones, fan bones, etc with aim/rotation constraints, they works in blender but when I set up the constraint in Unity they either misbehave or break after I tweak the armature in blender and reimport to Unity.
I'm new to Unity so I might be missing some common knowledge, for example I don't really understand the interaction between transform value and lock toggle in constraint settings, how to keep constraint working after tweaking armature in blender, etc

[pale pumice]

can't say I've had a ton of issue with this

so I'm not sure what to suggest

I mean, like, generally

[winged ember]

Generally?

[pale pumice]

like I don't have any real general/generic advice, but if you had something specific you could describe maybe that might help

[winged ember]

I see, thanks!

[winged ember]

Hmm I think one of the reason is because the bone constraint component locked the transformation at specific value, and isn't updating after I changed character proportion and bone positions in blender and reimport (which is probably expected because they are locked?)

Is there a way to handle this workflow more efficiently? I have 30+ constraints and don't really want to manually set them again. Perhaps it's possible to write some kind of script to add the component and lock values but I'm not sure if it's worth the time investment

I'm confused on why I can't find a solution on Internet, I imagine this would be a very common issue for anyone working on rigs in Unity and 3D software at the same time

[pale pumice]

you'd have to unlock the vrchat constraint, probably reset it or reset the bone it applied to, then re-lock it.

you could definitely script it

[visual meteor]

can anyone help me rig my rec room 3D models bc i wanna make it an Avatar

[summer fossil]

[solved]
if anyone else experiences this while uv mapping, its because a subdivide modifier needs to be applied 🙂

[winged ember]

Thanks for the idea. After some testing I think I might have actually hit a bug. When I follow your suggestion (reset component, revert its transform to rest pose, then reconfigure) to re-activate the constraint, the rotation changes on activation (and this only happens when not all axis are frozen). Interestingly if I delete the VRC constraint component, add a Unity version of it, activate/reset it and add back the VRC version again it will work correctly on activation.

Yeah I ended up writing editor script to automatically add the constraints.. don't want to deal with these confusing problems

[pale pumice]

huh, how strange

[whole stream]

Hello @winged ember 👋

[rare moon]

this is most likely a scammer jsyk

[visual meteor]

it was some low poly cube models but people wanted me to pay them over rigging

i kinda lost trust real fast

someone in game is doing it for me as if yesterday

[pale pumice]

why would people asking to be compensated for doing work be weird?

[visual meteor]

what?

[pale pumice]

"pay them over rigging" - maybe I misunderstood?

[visual meteor]

Rigs as in bones in blender

[pale pumice]

yes, that's what I assumed you meant

I'd definitely charge for that work

[visual meteor]

why though?

[pale pumice]

because it's work?

[visual meteor]

i mean in a server i met a player who is doing it for free so he is doing it now

[pale pumice]

neat, that's a lucky find

[visual meteor]

wait is it hard tho? to find people who do it for free?

[pale pumice]

Can't say that I've looked, since I do my own work, but I'm often surprised by people working for free.

[visual meteor]

i mean like here's the thing i have the model done i just can't rig as im not good at using blender as my 3D models are exported from rec room

[rare moon]

i mean it costs time and to do it quickly you are applying skills that take quite a bit to learn. If I were to charge for it though it wouldn't be much, maybe $15? If anyone is approaching you about payment though without you explicitly asking for that, then yeah, that is weird. You're not wrong for thinking so, as that's typical scammer behavior.

If you want to commission someone in the future, do it through someone you know and have talked to before (like someone you met in-game) or preferrably, do it through a commission server, like VRCTraders, and make sure to follow all their guidelines to ensure you don't get scammed.

[minor flare]

idk would you like to try weight painting

[visual meteor]

he didn't scam me he just gave me the models in game they work very fine

[rare moon]

No the person you found wasn't a scammer, I mean the people who dm'd you asking for payment

Unsolicited DMs offering services, especially if you share no servers, are 99% scammers

[minor dragon]

I've got an unusual model I'm having issues with. It's bipedal, but not humanoid. Some parts work and others don't.

[pale pumice]

provide details, of course.

[minor dragon]

I actually just got the same problem with a similar model, althought this one is compatable with ChilloutVR

[pale pumice]

did you do the rig setup?

[minor dragon]

No, I just imported the FBX

[pale pumice]

oh - find a basic avatar setup tutorial and do the basic setup

[minor dragon]

It was made for ChilloutVR, but the guy said it should be compatable with VRC

[pale pumice]

good chance it'll work then, yep

[minor dragon]

it doesn't have shoulder bones, so I'm not sure how to get those

Used the collar bones as shoulders, but it still isn't wanting to cooperate

[pale pumice]

You create them in Blender or similar. But that seems like probably the right bones, if they're children of the Chest bone, and parents of the upper arm bones.

[minor dragon]

It was the animator that was causing the problem

[visual meteor]

wait for real?

[rare moon]

yes most of the time

especially if they ask for payment and you never offered it, or if they don't share a server with you

[visual meteor]

as i did make a now deleted post were i ask for help a bunch of others wanted me to pay, dawg its just rigs not a whole new model

[rare moon]

it's normal for artists to ask for pay, but this rig in particular doesn't seem very difficult. The issue is that you never offered payment + the dms were unsolicited. There's a lot of tells with scammers, but just generally, ask here first, don't pay anyone that you can't verify is a legit artist, and NEVER pay via friends+family or gifting or anything named similarly (you can't do a chargeback/claim because it's considered a gift)

[visual meteor]

oh ok

[visual meteor]

that one friend of mine who did for free told me its a scam as they might ask for payments over rigs eventhough its just low poly models. want me to send a pic of the models

[rare moon]

well again, rigging is still work, so while there are many people willing to do it for free because it was a simple job, it isn't unreasonable for artists to ask for pay. It's just not okay if people approach you about it without asking and can't verify that they are legit artists.

[visual meteor]

yeah

[visual meteor]

oh yeah here is what they look like and it took the person who did it just an hour

[rare moon]

oh awesome! yeah it seemed like a pretty easy job

glad you got it sorted out :D

[visual meteor]

fr 😄

[wet rampart]

Can someone guide me through rigging and wights in vc? Its my first time doing rigging and i keep running into problems! we can text too

might be harder tho

ive checked videos, google, and asked for help on the blender discord but i still keep having problems so i was hoping someone could just help me step by step

[pale pumice]

FYI You can't have other objects the same name as a humanoid bone.

[weary hollow]

how can i fix this character twisting its legs instead of crouching?

[robust crescent]

check legs in blender, they should be straight when looked at and slightly bendt on knee

they can rotate wrong ways if they arent close to that

[pale pumice]

Also bone roll should be 0

[weary hollow]

what if theyre not plantigrade tho

[weary hollow]

sure let me fix it

[brazen island]

@weary hollow then you use constraints on top of plantigrade bones🤷‍♂️

#avatar-rigging message believe its the video

tho never watched cause happen to be a plantigrade

[pale pumice]

That one is very basic, but definitely will get you started

[weary hollow]

this is the bone layout it has

first mistake i noticed is the bones not bending forward which im working on fixing rn

currently fixing

[pale pumice]

VRChat is going to hate that - do you have other bones to be humanoid?

[trim bay]

trying to upload this rn, the creator had two different versions, the one im using now is for an easy port. vrc refuses to recognize it as a humanoid rig when i import to unity, i have no idea why this is happening. it has atleast one chest bone, i readjusted the shoulders earlier before uploading to unity to make sure it was exactly in a tpose, idk what else to do.

[pale pumice]

provide the errors you're getting in Unity

[trim bay]

oka

[pale pumice]

none of that has anything to do with rigging setup

[trim bay]

oh erm

[pale pumice]

looks like an issue with your gesture manager, try updating it, or maybe going back a version

it often has compatibility issues

[trim bay]

okay ty!

[trim bay]

downgraded gesture manager to 3.9.4, the last version i used that worked but it's still doing it,, is this a different error?

[pale pumice]

Yes, those errors are not related to the Gesture Manager problems.

re: the humanoid rig problem, click on the model file, and in the inspector, go to the "Rig" tab. Look for errors, If none, click "Configure" and make sure the right bones are in the right slots.

[trim bay]

theres this,, should i name everything to what unity calls each bone?

[pale pumice]

Yes, you cannot have any other objects named the same as any of the humanoid bones.

The actual bone names don't matter though

[trim bay]

oh alr, ty then

[trim bay]

everything works now appreciate the help

[wet rampart]

does anyone know why my rig splits of from my model when i turn it?

[hollow drum]

try reparenting the mesh to the rig

[wet rampart]

explain it in caveman terms🙏

[hollow drum]

@wet rampart okay,so ur rig is following the mesh because u parented with auomatic weight the avatar mesh to the bones , now i m not sure this is the solution but you can unparant the mesh (avatar ) from the bone and try parenting again making sure that evrything is aligned before that ,unparent by clicking the mesh then alt + p

[wet rampart]

thxxxx

huge help

ill try it rn

[wet rampart]

with or without auto weights?

[hollow drum]

with

[wet rampart]

cool thx man

[robust crescent]

none of this matter in unity , so not sure why you would do it - there you need constraints

[trim nexus]

How do you apply a rest pose so the pose changes to what you have on screen currently and not go back to its original state

[pale pumice]

in what, Blender? You have to apply the armature modifier to make the mesh stick in that position. You can apply it as a shape key, then apply that to Basis.

I forget how to apply the pose to the armature though

[robust crescent]

bones ? cats way to just move something apply sometime i need that T pose if im adding things

[pale pumice]

yeah - I don't have it installed 'cause I don't use it otherwise but that does have a thing for this

[weary hollow]

does anyone know how can i fix this

wondering if its a topology issue or just an inapropriate weight painting

[pale pumice]

fix what specifically?

[weary hollow]

the groin gets squished unnaturally

[pale pumice]

ah okay, thanks for clarifying. Definitely looks like weight painting causing that

topology doesn't look bad

[weary hollow]

here are the weights of the relevant bones

i have tried fixing it but it ends up looking worse if i adjust weights to reduce groin influence

[pale pumice]

Yeah it takes a lot of practice to become sorta-okay at doing it 🙂

[weary hollow]

yeah this is not how its supposed to bend

[hazy shale]

so i rip almost all of my avatars from Gmod, and i use the rig that comes with it since i have literally no knowledge on how to use blender,
but every now and then i'll find a good model but the hands tend to be extremely messed up and i usually give up after seeing it.
Any ideas on how i might be able to fix this?

[robust crescent]

only blender can fix that, pose mode and see if they have too many bones, parented wrong , 'n stuff

you probably have the claw hand where last bones goes straight down instead of following mesh

if they arent inside the mesh they bend wierdly too

[limpid bridge]

looks like unity thinks the model's index finger is actually the thumb
you'd have to reset pose and manually map the fingers

[hazy shale]

So like... ahem... what does 'reset pose' mean and how tf do i that?😭💔

[limpid bridge]

it should be in the rigging tab?
"pose > reset pose"
i think
i havent messed around with humanoid rigs in a long while so forgive me if im bad at directions

[hazy shale]

All good, i'll check it out next time im on unity

[shy badger]

Can some one explain me how can I fix when I’m rigging the clothes and the sleeves fuses with the fingers, when I delete the bones from there the clothes get deformed I have no clue how to fix this! If some one knows and can explain me I’ll be very grateful

[pale pumice]

I'm not quite sure what you mean but the first part sounds like accidentally weight painting areas you didn't mean to.
I don't know what you're trying to do by "delete the bones"

[shy badger]

Ok so I’m triying to make some clothes bones work with another avatar and for that I use the transfer data to the other clothes using the same avatar bones, but by doing that the bones from the fingers are still active so it deforms rlly bad

[pale pumice]

remove the vertices you don't want moving with a bone from that bone's vertex group

Also always assume that any of the transfer tools (blender's or robust) are going to get you part of the way there, and you'll have to do some manual touching up the weight paint afterwards.

[shy badger]

i see ill try it out ty so much!

[reef snow]

Does anybody know how to t-pose a pre-posed model in blender?

[quiet haven]

cats plugin i think

[robust crescent]

go into pose mode and it miight turn into a T , some are just doing a pose thats built in their fbx/ect

[viscid dome]

is this somehow fixable?

the rig seems to be fine ive also checked the bone rolls

[pale pumice]

that's a really wide stance

[swift coyote]

having a huge issue here, i've been fixing the bones on my model over and over but issues will still pop up or it wont recognize the rig as humanoid even if all bones are fixed

[pale pumice]

it tells you what's wrong right there

click "configure" and see which bones are in which slots

[swift coyote]

all of the bones are in their designated slots, maybe i'm missing something i've just never had this issue before

[pale pumice]

ok so now make sure the hierarchy is in the right order

that mapping looks good

[swift coyote]

like this?

[pale pumice]

looks right to me

[swift coyote]

youu are a life saver thanks so much!

[viscid dome]

if i close it up would that reverse my issue?

[robust crescent]

show how it looks with this setting, sticks dont tell us much

front > bones straight down, side with slight bend on knee , or it can rotate wierd ingame like the bowlegged you have

[viscid dome]

so like this?

[robust crescent]

side fine, front not so much need to be straighter

[viscid dome]

that´s the best i really can do without messing up the upper legs

[viscid dome]

It fixed it tho! 👍

[halcyon yew]

okay so im currently trying to convert a mmd model to a unity avatar but the mmd model has shapekeys that arent being converted over to blendshapes in unity (the armature also isnt being converted for some reason) does someone know why this is happening? i feel like i might be missing something but i dont know what it is

[pale pumice]

how are you doing the conversion?

[halcyon glacier]

anyone know any good videos or have good advice on maybe volume preserve bones or weighting specifically hips and shoulders? so tired of the wonky deformations.

[halcyon yew]

using blender

[pale pumice]

You can't pin both ends, so often people will put one physbone in the middle to give it a little movement, but most of this is going to be annoying weight painting

[lapis umbra]

Ah damnit, just gonna be a lot of the gradient tool. thanks though

[halcyon glacier]

So when im rigging my avatars, they end up having wierd movements with the arms and hips even when things look fine in blender. I've seen a few people say that everything should be perfectly straight from shoulders to hand/hips to feet. However when I look at a human skeleton reference, the human body doesn't default like that expecially the shoulders and hips. Should I try to make everything perfectly straight? or should I stick closer to an actual human skeleton? Specifically for vrc/unity use.

[pale pumice]

Bone roll should be 0 for all humanoid bones. See the pinned image for an "ideal" VRChat compatible humanoid rig

[halcyon glacier]

Bone roll was already reset. Did the pinned message used to have a video attached or just the photo?

[pale pumice]

there are several pinned messages, but only one has the diagram I mean

From Granada

[halcyon glacier]

I was always told 1 spine bones on the torso. This one has 2? Is that standard. Sorry if this is a no duh question.

[pale pumice]

Ah - this one shows the optional upper chest bone

it should be hips -> spine -> chest -> upper chest (optional) -> neck -> head

with the shoulders coming from the upper chest if present, chest if not.

[halcyon glacier]

Gotcha. I've had animation problems in vrchat if I use that type of bones heirarchy.

[pale pumice]

okay, not sure why that might be

[halcyon glacier]

It's all good. Thank you for showing me the alignment example tho.

[pale pumice]

np!

[slim shard]

i disabled the jaw and also the vismes match what else could stop the mouth from working ?

[pale pumice]

there are things you can do in the animator to prevent the mouth from working, you could have it misconfigured in the avatar descriptor, there are lots of things

[rare moon]

one option is to add bones at the elbow to segment it, then use rotation constraints in unity so it follows the motion of the arm in an arc

[lapis umbra]

So, pretty much create a correction bone for the cord?

[rare moon]

yeah, but you can do multiple if you want to make it smoother

[slim shore]

This is like a dummy rig for examples but I have a friend who's trying to weight paint a wire to hang down/be affected by gravity yet also act as an arm connected to a hand
we know its not necessarily possible for the 2nd option to work while also having it be a functional hand so we're moreso thinking of going with the first option?
does anybody have any ideas/advice or if anyone's done this sorta thing before?

[pale pumice]

you could do it via rotation constraints, from a set of hand bones that isn't driving the mesh

[slim shard]

So I’m noticing people use a different blender version for avatars ? Because someone was teaching me rigging but their blender had no issue partnering bones together but mine did

[barren wyvern]

Some people get older versions of Blender because of the Cats plugin. If you google it, you will see one by absolute-quantum at the top of the search list.

This is the old, discontinued version! Many don't know this and get the older version of Blender that works with this plugin.

[slim shard]

See that’s the thing I have the cats plug in on a semi newer version of blender

But some people say cats doesn’t always come in handy

[robust crescent]

ive never used the merge in cats but creating visemes for sure

[barren wyvern]

I hardly use it since I know Blender pretty well, but there are still functions that are handy. I like the Merge to Parent and Apply as Rest Pose

[robust crescent]

4.5 / 5.0 blender have cats version , most of it is already in blender just much faster with a click then digging it up / or setting up modifiers

[barren wyvern]

so what issue are you having?

[slim shard]

I was having a parenting issue when someone was teaching me something and they didn’t use their cats cuz apparently what I was learning was simple but my bone was parenting too the hip boy so that’s why I asked what blender someone uses too compare

[pale pumice]

latest

[barren wyvern]

I would have to see a screenshot or video of what you are doing.

[vagrant rose]

got a question so i kinda dont know rigging can anyone help me?

[pale pumice]

That's what this channel is for, just ask.

[vagrant rose]

ok

[fossil dew]

holy hacked😭 💔

[weary hollow]

i have modeled this very simple hoodie but i was wondering, how could i rig it so that when its down, the head movement doesnt interfere with it?

[balmy delta]

Separate bone for the hood

[median gust]

trying to add this hoodie on the this follower/imitation pet , but whenever i import the fbx to blender it reorders the bones which breaks the asset unity(pet wont move with avi or imitate it) its the same object, the bones order and how they are parented changes when u import the bear into blender, abd since it changes when i export it back to unity the asset stops working, blender "fixes" it by making the bones line up with vrc knowlegde but that isnt compatible with the orignal asset https://kimriovr.booth.pm/items/6268773

[ivory moat]

How can I change the scale of different parts of an avatar (the mesh) withoutbreaking/effecting the rig or going back to the original transforms after posing or going back to object mode? I want to change the sizing of legs or head for example

[weary hollow]

Right now its unrigged but how could i be able to achieve it?

[balmy delta]

duplicate head bone and just weight paint to that

when on head rotation constrain it to the head

[weary hollow]

But what about when the hoodie Is down, i don't want it wiggling

[balmy delta]

then just dont have it constrained

let it follow the chest

[weary hollow]

Ooh alr, pretty much just enabling and disabling the constraint, tysm!

[balmy delta]

or just swapping the tracking between head and chest

you can have multiple targets with different weight values

[magic sierra]

@pale pumice This is the blender armature.

[pale pumice]

no need to @ me specifically.

[magic sierra]

Apologies

[pale pumice]

it looks reasonable though

[magic sierra]

Which is why I'm unsure why its messing it up in unity...

[pale pumice]

I'm not clear about what is "messing up", I just saw the missing chest bone.

[magic sierra]

Basically, the avatar is deforming. The limbs get all twisted around and bent backwards

When I try to configure the rig

[brazen island]

image again? make sure bone roll is 0

[pale pumice]

if you just reexported it, maybe set it to generic, apply, then redo the rig setup.
Definitely make sure bone roll is 0 for all humanoid bones (except fingers/toes if needed)

[brazen island]

is it like brand new rigged model or what, i just dont get how can it be messed up just for you

[magic sierra]

Bone roll?

[brazen island]

what bone considers to be a "front"

[pale pumice]

edit armature in blender, click on a bone, it's in the item properties box

[magic sierra]

Let me check that

It wasn't. I think thats the issue

Thank you very much

[pale pumice]

aha! Yeah that can do it

[magic sierra]

I was going crazy trying to figure that out haha

[serene veldt]

I've seen people use these mannequins for their body bases recently, and was wondering who had the experise to rig such amazing doll models, they just look so good.

[lime crystal]

Those models look amazing. It takes someone with good experience in Blender rigging and avatar setup, especially for segmented/doll-style bodies like that. It’s definitely a more specialized type of rigging.

A character animator who works with segmented doll style model would be best fit

[robust crescent]

probably the easiest to rig, since both joints dont need to bend at all, just follow one joint

[robust crescent]

normally you would need weight where joint ment to bend, not so much with these ball joint avatars , for more fancy stuff like pistons bit more work

[balmy delta]

the most annoying part of rigid weights is getting the bone rotation in the correct spot to not cause clipping/shifting

[pale pumice]

I just find the center point on my mesh, put the 3D cursor there, then snap the bone's head to the 3D cursor.

[balmy delta]

yes

[inner granite]

New to avatar creation. Anyone know why I can't get the symmetrize option to work in Blender?

[pale pumice]

what symmetrize option?

[dusky vale]

Hey I've spent the past 13 hours trying to rig Mini 13, everything seems to be going wrong. Anyone know why the Blender file loads into Unity extra large? And why the rig has that random node way beyond any bones I inserted in Blender? And how to get rid of it? And if I even really want to do all this?

[pale pumice]

when you export the fbx, set "apply scalings" to "FBX All"

Also unity and blender have different ideas of what the same rig looks like, they won't match. You do seem to have a weird bone there - In Blender, make sure all your humanoid bones have bone roll = 0

[dusky vale]

where would I see bone roll? also, here's what it looks like in blender. Should I be adding another bone in his waist so I don't have that weird stretching thing?

[brazen island]

hips-spine-chest-neck-head is the minimum amount

not all of them must be weightpainted and can be tiny and kinda useless

but required still

[dusky vale]

I tried adding more joints and assigning them in Unity, but it still has that weird node sticking out the frount. There's no bone there I legit have no clue what's causing it

[barren wyvern]

This might sound weird, but check to see if there is a bone there. it could be a small one

[dusky vale]

I've double-checked by dragging the selection box, then deleting whatever was there

My best guess is there's a thread thing there, which moves the whole skeleton

Don't know if I can delete that

[barren wyvern]

thats the object origin. This should be on the floor between the legs. The world XYZ 0,0,0

crtl + A in object mode

[dusky vale]

hopefully there's no rules against posting this many images... but here's what it looks like now. I'll try exporting the FBX again and see if that changed anything

[barren wyvern]

you must do that for both the armature and the rig

Also, if the avatar is too large, you can size the avatar in Blender. How tall do you want the avatar to be?

[dusky vale]

Maybe like 5'10? is that like 1.75m?

He's too big apparently, on the y axis? If 6 is the max height, how big should he be so he's like normal height

[barren wyvern]

Add a cube with Shift+A and type the height of the cube and put it next to your model. Then you can scale the armature to match the size. When you are done do the CTRL+A part above again on the rig

[dusky vale]

That's a good idea. I scaled him down, apparently he was several thousand meters tall. No clue how that happened, because the original file was only like 13cm tall.

Says avatar validation failed... I'm thinking I might just give up on rigging this thing at this point, I think it's been over 14 hours I've spent.

[barren wyvern]

did the avatar have an avatar descriptor with a player camera setting? Its should be the least you do before uploading

[dusky vale]

It did, it said the avatar validation failed because unity didn't own the avatar or something like that. I'll boot it up again and see if I can replicate it I guess

It started building, but the size is messed up again. Too big, and it just slides around, no actual rigging

Says the bounding box is too big. Can I fix that with just scaling tool?

[barren wyvern]

the bounding box setting is in Unity

[dusky vale]

Dang, really hope I'm not spamming this channel, but it suddenly started working! Animations, size is correct, everything suddenly started working. Only issue is feet clip a bit into the ground and his hips aren't mapped correctly.

[barren wyvern]

I am available for dm/vc if you want to finish this as quickly as possible

[dusky vale]

that'd be helpful, thank you! lemme figure out how to show the VCs in this server

[slim shard]

I added one more thing too my Avi and it did this

[pale pumice]

do the humanoid rig setup

[slim shard]

Update it was the smaller thing I didn’t notice

[viscid dome]

are those okay?

i seem to have this isue where my legs take a step backwards i assume the ik is trying to asjust istself?

(I know the legs are a little long

[robust crescent]

id fix that slightly , but its okey

[viscid dome]

so like this??

just tryna make the rig as good as i can before getting over to unity

[dire current]

I need help rigging a avetar

[marsh fiber]

where do i find best to rig

[lilac moss]

Does VRCHeadChop just not work at all on non-humanoid avatars?
(I tested, and yes, this appears to be a bug for all non-humanoid avatars. Canny link: https://feedback.vrchat.com/avatar-30/p/head-chop-does-nothing-on-non-humanoid-avatars)

[pale pumice]

this is the place

[brazen island]

@lilac moss any avatar can be made into a humanoid with a dummy rig and its usually a good idea to do so cause worlds and some avatar systems depend on things like finger bones anyway

[lilac moss]

I'll try that, but the bone count might kill my quest performance, so i might end up waiting on a patch from vrchat (shouldn't take too many years hehe)

[scenic eagle]

i need help with rigging gng

[pale pumice]

you'll need to be way more specific, and explain what you've got so far.

[safe gorge]

be specific with that

[weak siren]

A great alternative is putting a scale constraint on the bone you wish to shrink bound to the head bone. In first person view it will shrink mesh out of the way while mirrors are unaffected.

[weak siren]

What specifically do you need help with?

[limpid bridge]

yoooo another pokemon avi creator! hiii

[boreal scroll]

If a avatar already says rigged does that mean i still have to rig it for vrchat?

[pale pumice]

probably not?

[weak siren]

Yooo

[weak siren]

Sometimes. A lot of rigs out there are overly complex or not set up in a way where tracking will work well. I end up rerigging almost every model to optimize it.

[boreal scroll]

Would you get in call and help me rig a avatar today or tomorrow-?

Videos havent helped me

Tbh

[weak siren]

unfortunately man I work like crazy, I really only have time at night and this is a complex topic that took me years to get good at. I studied game rigs from other games to get an idea of how its set up. General tips.

Always start as simple as possible, then add bones as needed. Don't be afraid to try things and see how they work. Im sorry I cant help much further I just dont have the time.

[boreal scroll]

Oh ok all good thanks for the tip

[weak siren]

Actually another thing. The gradient tool is your best friend. Its the tool at the very bottom of the brush tools.

[boreal scroll]

What does it do

[pale pumice]

that's pretty useful, yeah. I do find I paint directly more, then use the smoothing tool.

[pale pumice]

same thing as in a painting program, makes gradients between colors

[lilac moss]

This was a good trick for humanoid avatars, back before VRCHeadChop, but is unnecessary with VRCHeadChop doing that task better. It's still only possible on humanoid avatars.
The devs have tracked this bug thankfully

[sage portal]

Could help you do that if you are available now

[boreal scroll]

I will be later

[sage portal]

Alright 👌

[weak siren]

I am confused. You have to have a humanoid avatar in order to play, or at least, have a humanoid rig. I found head chop has been broken for a while now, and a scale constraint kinda does the same thing.

[pale pumice]

you don't have to have a humanoid avatar, but it does make a lot of things easy.

[lilac moss]

Non-humanoid avatar rigs have always existed, but lack support
What's the setup where headchop is broken?

[pale pumice]

I use head chop, not sure what would be broken about it.

[lilac moss]

It's worth reporting details of what avatar setups break headchop

[weak siren]

When i was setting up my deathclaw, I added several bones to the body to shrink mesh out of the way of the view point. When using head chop, that shrunk mesh would end up at 0,0,0 in the world for some reason. So I used scale constraints for the shrink bones, and its been working great.

[pale pumice]

huh, I thought it would shrink to the head of the bone

[weak siren]

No, it does shrink it in place though, as scale constraints dont effect transforms obviously. https://gyazo.com/4f35670990ca19c2a9594d68e7097c86
That bone in his back is what I shrink as well as the puppet head , the little little bone in the back os your actual head.

[pale pumice]

ah yeah, that digitgrade method, haven't seen that in a while

[weak siren]

It takes forever to adjust the bones. This is a early rig, I ended up changing the bones a lot. But its awesome in game.

Fbt control with no downsides. And on quest!

[pale pumice]

yeah I've done it 2-3 times now, each one seems to take nearly a month of fiddling with it

[weak siren]

Yes, yes it does lol

I make a lot of monsters.

[lilac moss]

that's really cool

[weak siren]

Thanks. Its a public model, quest compatible and really, really cool. Its every deathclaw in a single model. Deathclaw Ultimate （Optimized） by Baphoma #VRChat #MadeWithVRChat https://vrchat.com/home/avatar/avtr_d038ff10-7d5a-40f6-baea-f7ffc24bec5a

[somber cliff]

also posted here in case the guys in here know better about this issue

[weak siren]

Did you apply transforms in blender for the double head model?

[somber cliff]

oh snap, I probably didn't. That could be the issue

[somber cliff]

uhh, i applied all tranforms and my model broke into pieces in Blender. Did I miss a step lol?

I applied transforms for the mesh only and it's normal

[pale pumice]

they should be applied for all parts including the armature

[somber cliff]

So I missed something?

[weak siren]

If your rig is braking you may need to transfer everything to a new model with the applied transforms. Get pumpkins avatar tools they help A TON.

[pale pumice]

I have no idea what you did or didn't do unless you explain it, so I can't answer that.

[somber cliff]

Sheeeeesh alright

[weak siren]

Let you transfer everything with a button click.

Im sorry man, welcome to avatars, they actively fight you lol.

[somber cliff]

Sadly I'm not completely new, but this is so weird to me

Tbf I imported the fbx from unity instead of using the original I made, I might open the file and make a duplicate

[pale pumice]

IMO blender to unity should be one-way, at least after the initial import into Blender.

[somber cliff]

If it helps, I'm trying to add Mortugues Animal Speech to an avi if you're familiar with that

[pale pumice]

not at all

[somber cliff]

Darn

[weak siren]

Who whatnow?

[somber cliff]

It's an addon that allows the user to secretly talk using animal sounds so that only other ppl with the avi can hear you

Thing is, it requires you to make a fake second head on blender on your model 🥶

[weak siren]

Thats absolutely nuts. Can you share where you got it? Id love to see how it works, maybe I could help you more with it.

[pale pumice]

actual head with mesh, or just a bone

[somber cliff]

https://mortugues.gumroad.com/l/AnimalSpeech

Here you go! Is also on Booth

[somber cliff]

Just the bone

[pale pumice]

oh, that's not overly weird

[barren wyvern]

Holy moly! A quest-compatible avatar with Med performance rank?

Love the neck rig idea btw

[stiff crater]

None of the bones and weight painting have been modified but the avatar arms keep getting crooked like this when exporting the FBX from blender to unity, it has elbow twist bones. This issue occurred to me before and I had to move the bones to their original position since they had moved a little bit but this time the whole armature and bones positions are the same ?.. What's the issue ?...

Solution : Align the shoulder bones horizontally, straight, completely flat. Make sure you do not make them longer and that u have mirroring on in the bones editor in blender. (Check screenshot)
(I'm going to go insane)

[pale pumice]

do you have the twist bones setup properly?

also by "move the bones" where/how did you do this?

[median shell]

bro this is my first time using unity WHAT happened

[barren wyvern]

the design is missing (on purpose) the meshes for the arms, legs, and hips. Unity Humanoid uses these to try to figure out where the bones are.

Its easy to fix, just manually add the bones to the Humanoid window under the green dude

[median shell]

i cant even tell what bone is what

[barren wyvern]

You can drag n drop from the hierarchy onto the slots in the inspector.

[worn tulip]

#avatar-help message cross post in case anyone in here knows whether this is a hard limitation of vrchat

[bold locust]

I'm trying to use eyelid bones for blink, lookup, and lookdown. They work in Unity when I'm testing them in the descriptor and in the emulator, but they don't seem to work in-game. Is there something I might be missing?

Not sure why they just don't work in-game. I was going to try to just use my facial armature for a change, but I may be forced to make shapekeys again.

I also tried searching "bone eyelids" but there's really nothing in the server, surprisingly.

Ig I'll just take the perf hit and use constraints.

[serene veldt]

I'm a bit rusty with the blender mirror tool, the other hand of my model is badly weight painted, but the other hand is perfect, how would I mirror that so I don't have the error?

in other words, trying to do a lazy way of making my rig look smoother-

[barren wyvern]

Have you tried with VRC fury? It also has a blink component, though its think it doesn't have look up/down yet

[bold locust]

I might use it for blink to see what it does, but constraints sourced to the eye bones actually looks pretty much identical to what the descriptor should be doing.

Just would've been nice to figure out why it doesn't work, if VRC is going to make it a feature.

[hoary mulch]

o/
any ideas why my receiver aint showing up as a sphere? cant google out solution >.<
its basically 0.5 as all guides had after creation

[pale pumice]

do you have gizmos on? Upper-right of the scene view, button looks like a globe

[hoary mulch]

i knew that was simple but im embarrassed rn

:kekw

first steps in unity ;p

[pale pumice]

yup, these things are always funny the first time

[still flint]

Getting this error, but my hiearchy seems fine

[still flint]

this is fixed now nvm, it was mad over a tweak bone

[pale pumice]

ah, I was wondering

[swift knoll]

i recognize that rig

[oblique viper]

Any tips on rigging sonic models eyes really wanting to try and achieve it and I’m struggling don’t know how to go about the eye rigs and kinda wanted to ask here if possibly anybody knows a way I can go about it

[wooden flint]

How do I rig visemes to my avi

[pale pumice]

there's no rigging, they're shape keys

unless you really want to do something complex, then you'd have to animate that yourself too

[wooden flint]

Shiii

[still flint]

Wdym

[swift knoll]

Rec Room Avatar Studio Rig

[still flint]

👀

Modified one for a addon im doing lmao

[swift knoll]

-# I had to make my own rig for mine because I was doing mine weird

[still flint]

Huh, I ended up doing two separate rigs, one for blender and when you export the avatar the addon switches out to this one for Unity or whatever else

[round crypt]

Can’t figure out how to fix this

[balmy delta]

Thats a warning not an error

Click enforce tpose

[zinc wagon]

For Fortnite models, put spine 5 as the Upper Chest bone. Be sure to check the hand bones to remove the metacarpal bones, swapping them out for 01-03 like in the second picture too or else they'll look real off. Check the head bones as well, as it automatically assigns the jaw bone and will make it hang open if you're using blendshape visemes. Place "none" there to get rid of it

[round crypt]

i did that and its still messing up

[scenic eagle]

im trying to upload an avatar to quest, switched the shaders and unlocked them and tried idk what to do

[zinc wagon]

I ported him real quick to check, did you check the head bones? It shoved some random ones in. Swap them out for Neck 01 and Head, and remove the one in the left eye spot.

then grab spine 4 and rotate it straight to get rid of the tilt and red bone errors

[pale pumice]

if you have to do that in Unity, you probably need to put it back into Blender and figure out why it's all wonky

[round crypt]

Thank you omg!!

[zinc wagon]

No problem! Happy to spare you from the struggle I had porting a Fortnite model over for the first time two days ago lmaoo

[zinc wagon]

Fortnite model rigs tend to have a lot of bends and angles in the bones rather than the straight ones VRChat works best with. The spine curves a lot on this one, so I think that threw it off?

With Danny Phantom, he was bow-legged so I had to clear the pose it was stuck in, pose his legs straight up and down, apply that as the rest pose, and then symmetrize the leg bones because they weren't even...and deleted a chunk of the 250+ bones oml

[pale pumice]

sure. my statement stands though 🙂

[zinc wagon]

oh for sure, I was just reiterating why it's a good step for any Fortnite model before starting

[pale pumice]

ah, got it

[inner tiger]

does anybody know how to fix ugly bone rotation values? I have a problem with setting up eye look because my eye bones imported from blender have like -90 on x and -10 on z axis

[balmy delta]

Remove bone rotation
Apply transforms
Keep the bones rotation straight up

[inner tiger]

bone rotation as in bone roll? Its already 0 in blender. Transform applied. I am not entirely sure what do you mean by bone rotation straight up sorry im new to this. Do you mean straight up along y axis in blender?

[balmy delta]

Z axis is the vertical up one but yes

Like instead of having the bone point towarda the pupil

Youd have it pointed like a lower case i

[inner tiger]

oh i see thats interesting. Ill try that thanks a lot!

[zinc forge]

I'm getting the feet aren't specified on humanoid avatar error along with the head, hands, and feet error. I updated the avatar in blender and came across this issue in the legs after extruding some bones. What do I do?

[pale pumice]

can't really see what you have there for the legs - you should have upper, lower, and foot bones.

wait, all of what you highlighted is legs? why so many bones?

[zinc forge]

I'm not sure how to make the bones cover a large area

[pale pumice]

what do you mean by that?

[zinc forge]

rather than many small ones, a big one

[pale pumice]

you just scale them to the size you need

[robust crescent]

some odd models have 2 bones for each part of a leg have, merge them

[pale pumice]

if you already have multiple you can select two and 'm' to merge them

[zinc forge]

that brings up bone layers

[pale pumice]

oh it does, sorry. well it's in the Armature menu

... wait, where is that now

I bet you can just dissolve the child of the two

ah yes, ctrl+x while a child is selected will merge it into its parent. Not sure what happens with weights in that case, I haven't tried this before

[zinc forge]

looks better, k, now what do I do about my original issue?

[pale pumice]

make sure the feet are listed in the bone mapping in the rig setup in unity

and that they're direct children of the lower leg bones

[zinc forge]

this is what happened

[pale pumice]

I don't see leg bones

[zinc forge]

now there ar no bones

like Idk what to do with this

[pale pumice]

are they in the bone mapping in Unity?

[zinc forge]

yes

so I'm not sure what the issue is

[pale pumice]

show that screen

[zinc forge]

what do you mean?

[pale pumice]

I mean show this: #avatar-rigging message

you just said those bones are in that list, please show it

[zinc forge]

isn't this the bone mapping?

[pale pumice]

that is not a list, I'm asking for the list

[zinc forge]

yea Idk what that is so I'm not sure how I said that those bones are in a list

I've only ever made 1 avatar before this and never had to change any bone things

[pale pumice]

in Unity: click the model file, go to inspector, rig tab, click "configure" and view the list. Make sure the right bones are in the right slots.

[pale pumice]

are those the correct leg bones?

[zinc forge]

no, it looks like the bone is invisible

[pale pumice]

Then put the correct bones into those slots.

[zinc forge]

and the entire upper leg is now missing when I export

[zinc forge]

but they're invisible

[pale pumice]

you don't care if they're visible or not - drag the bone from the hierarchy into that slot.

[zinc forge]

ok, it seems that did something

[zinc forge]

thanks, that seems to have worked

[pale pumice]

excellent.

[zinc forge]

It looks like there's just one last part

is that also fixed by similar means

[pale pumice]

yeah you seem to have extra bones in there, they don't order as expected. probably this won't be an issue, you'll have to try it

[zinc forge]

if it does become an issue, is there a set of bones I should merge?

[pale pumice]

Without looking at this in detail I couldn't guess what any of your bones are for

[zinc forge]

loll

these ones are for the legs so it seems like there must be some parent issue with something here

[pale pumice]

you seem to have too many leg bones

[zinc forge]

gotcha

now let's say I finish the avatar and add everything I want and then the issue becomes a thing, is there a way to update the avatar's bones without restarting?

[pale pumice]

restarting what

[zinc forge]

the entire process of creating the vrc avatar in unity

[pale pumice]

just overwrite the .fbx file. If you've made drastic changes at worst you'll need to set the rig type to generic, apply, then do the whole humanoid setup again.
Or you may need to drag a new copy of the model into the scene and copy stuff over to it.

[zinc forge]

copy that, thanks for your help

[mortal grove]

How can I stop my model's feet from sinking into the ground? outside of playmode the model's feet is fully above ground, but in playmode and rig config it sinks slightly into the floor

[scenic eagle]

help me

[balmy delta]

no need to spam crosspost

[scenic eagle]

srry

[balmy delta]

if the root is already at the bottom of the feet in blender then drag it up in the rig tab slightly

[pale pumice]

with what?

[scenic eagle]

i have the bones but im kinda confused bc ppl keep saying its not for vrc

[robust crescent]

its using a rig thats very painful to fix

definatly not for a first timer in blender

fixable sure

[scenic eagle]

how do i fix it??

[robust crescent]

ever used blender , im not teaching you how >> tldr ; remove useless stuff, move every bone / merge unnecessary ones , likely have to manually setup visemes / generate them moving bones/verticies around (unless it has shapekeys), group on bones , atlas/bake texture to avoid very poor junk stats - probably a few hours of work

least its not using one of those rigify things

[mint chasm]

Hello all, brand new to this stuff but i wanted to learn how to make vrchat avatars, i found this .psk to practice and just want to make sure the skeletons right for vrchat and whatever other advice you can give me lol. Using blender 5 with some plugins, unity, vrccc. Ive converted it to fbx, chose poiyami shader, got the skeleton to stay with the mesh, some other random stuff i googled and forgot 🤷‍♂️ now the skeleton needs help as i try to finalize this. Ill send more pics/give w.e info you need to help me

[robust crescent]

those shoulders look wierd, how they look in blender aim for that

[mortal grove]

I can't move the rig up or it will mess up the view position

[balmy delta]

so the root isnt at the bottom of the feet then

[mortal grove]

you mean like this right?

[balmy delta]

yes also the root is the orange dot

[mortal grove]

okay, im still have issues with the feet sinking a little and the view position being in the wrong spot when testing in vrchat though. Im not sure how to fix either

[barren wyvern]

you can pull the model up by the hip in the humanoid setup screen

that usually fixes the feet through the ground issue

[mortal grove]

then that leaves the view position being behind the neck even though its where it should be in unity

[barren wyvern]

and you might want to place this bone higher so the movement looks nicer

[barren wyvern]

you can always move the camera to a new spot in the avatar descriptor

[pale pumice]

are you saying the view is moving around or something? It should be where you put it, and if you re-export the model differently, it probably needs adjusting

[mortal grove]

The issue is fixed, thanks for the help!

[scenic eagle]

how does this look gng?

[pale pumice]

leg bones are a little weird, but that might just be the angle. The feet specifically seem like the ankle joint is too high

[scenic eagle]

mk i can fix those

[radiant basin]

I've got an avatar with a removeable head gimmick that I'm doing with a duplicate head rig setup. The problem is that the eye-look direction and voice origin are still tied to the head of the main humanoid part of the rig (which follows my headset).

I tried Parent-Constraining the head joint to the same rig as the duplicate head rig, and that makes the eye-direction work (I think?) but it also seems to break something else in the rig: suddenly some other joint in the torso is torqued all weird.

Is a Parent Constraint the right way to move the voice origin? Is there something special about the way I have to set it up?

[dusky vale]

When running, I'm able to parts of my avatar's head, instead of it being hidden. The specific part is the bottom of his jaw I believe. Anyone know how to fix this?

[pale pumice]

I'd use rotation constraints to copy the eye movements from the main bones. Not sure about the voice though, I didn't think you could move that

[balmy delta]

Its just attached to whatever your head bone is

[radiant basin]

Yeah, that's working, but it keeps the aim origin from the original head.

So if I take the fake head off and rotate it 90 degrees, the eyes still face whatever the "head" is looking at, which is now 90 degress off to the side. If I turn the fake head around to look at myself I see the backsides of my eyeballs

I need to move the origin of the eye-look raycasts (or whatever the actual mechanism is) to the fake-head and match its orientation.

[pale pumice]

do you have the local checkbox enabled on those eye rotation constraints?

wait, you said aim, how is this setup now?

[radiant basin]

I am using orient constraints to match rotation from eyeBones -> fakeEyebones.
I think I have the constraint solving in world-space right now, but I don't know if swapping to local space will actually be the solution.

[pale pumice]

yeah - I'd expect a rotation constraint in local space would work

I've actually been meaning to try this, just haven't got around to it.

[radiant basin]

The problem is that the eyes are matching a direction that goes from Head joint -> other person.

Let's say that the other person is right in front of me. the eyes want to look straight forward at the person.
now imagine I have the fake head with fake eyes 6 feet off to the side, also looking straight forward. If I match rotation from realEyes -> fakeEyes the fake eyes would also be looking straight forward. but I don't want that. I want it to consider the fakeHead position as the origin for the eyelook

[pale pumice]

oh I see. I'd think you would need to reposition the actual eye bones VRChat controls then.

[radiant basin]

I haven't actually tried repositioning the original eyes, just the Head joint so far.

also I'm only assuming that eyelook originates from the head bone. I haven't found any docs that describe how that system actually work.

[pale pumice]

yeah the eyes should be children of the head, so moving that ought to do it

[radiant basin]

yeah, it does look right when the Head is repositioned (I haven't tested it with another person to be certain the angles are coming out right, but I think it's good)

the only problem there is that that breaks my character. my character ends up bent over sideways

the only constraints I have are in the fake-head and a couple unrelated accessory joints, nothing should be affecting the rest of the character. Especially not the torso

[barren oar]

hi

can someone help me rig my rec room avatar?

i got the original export of my avatar

and i don't know how to properly rig it

[pale pumice]

create a rig like the one shown in the pinned message in this channel

[barren oar]

just a normal humanoid rig?

[pale pumice]

unless you want to do all of the base animations yourself, that's the easiest way

[barren oar]

i mean i want the rec room animations

[pale pumice]

I mean the locomotion animations. Without a humanoid rig you have to do all of that, it'll just t-pose in game.
If you mean like emotes and poses and such, those you can also use, if they work on a humanoid armature

[barren oar]

i mostly meant the grabbing, i suppose it wont look like from game but it will be the vrchats default one

[robust crescent]

never touched the thing but its likely humanoid animations , generic dont work to well with vr

also you'd be doing ALOT more work then just mocap

[barren oar]

rec room is a vr game

[pale pumice]

rec rooom was a VR game 🙂

[barren oar]

https://giphy.com/gifs/black-crying-rhgifs-VNTMx3LkpG2anXpwbr

okay i will make the rig, does the format matters for vrchat?

like fbx would be better or glb?

[robust crescent]

go fbx , only other i know that can work is .blend (rather not)

[barren oar]

okay nvm ive found unity project with made customizable rec room playermodel

[scenic eagle]

what needs to be fixed? i got most of the rig done

[barren oar]

okay soo the problem is that i cant find meshes from my avatar so my only option is to rig it

i dont really know how the rig is supposed to look, i mean the automatic weights wont work because the mesh is not directly connected togheter and there are floating hands which also cause the problem so idk how i really should rig it after I edit the humanoid rig from rigify to fit the rec room bean

[barren oar]

from what i can see its good also make sure you edited it from all views not only front view

[scenic eagle]

all views

[barren oar]

so see how automatic weight looks like

and fix the weight paint if its in places where its not supposed to be

[scenic eagle]

mk

[scenic eagle]

how do i weight paint???

[scenic eagle]

can someone show me were to weight paint

[barren oar]

oh sorry

yes i can help

basically you have to first select armature and then while holding shift click on your mesh, in your case its pomni

then in left upper corner you can click on tab of modes

and you should see weight paint

when you are in weight paint

you can hold left alt and click on a bone to choose the desired bone

and you normally paint on your mesh

sadly i can't give you any tips on how to properly weight paint because i am no pro myself and my weight paintings are horrible

with ctrl you erase the paint

[young niche]

how to make weight painting not bad me sad that bad pls help D: bad makes sad

[barren oar]

Do you have graphic tablet?

I know it easier with drawing it on it instead with mose because you can set pressure settings

[pale pumice]

yeah, it's so much nicer doing weight painting with a tablet

But with a mouse, what I like to do is set the weight to 1 but the strength to 0.01, and gradually add

enable accumulate and auto normalize, and of course X mirroring

The blur tool is good too if you're doing it with a mouse, paint then smooth with that. I set that strength about .1

[little frigate]

Has anyone here dealt with rigging stretchy clothes before? I have a client that wants their tank top sleeves to actually stretch the connected parts around when their arm moves instead of it being normally rigged. I can only think of overweighting the area that needs to be stretchy or IK bones, but I'm not sure if they're the right approach for this. (Or how I'd even approach the IK bones / how they'd work in unity.)

[pale pumice]

not sure what stretching vs. normally rigging is here

[little frigate]

1 sec.

For example this is the difference between T pose and A pose.

[pale pumice]

uh huh...

[little frigate]

Where the green is more or less what it's supposed to do.

[pale pumice]

what, you want the middle of the shirt to move up when the arms go down?

[little frigate]

Yknow...like how normal clothes do. It shouldn't just bend the shoulder parts, the whole hem needs to "stretch" and move up too, yes.

[pale pumice]

unfortunately, mesh is not cloth, so that's going to be kinda difficult to rig

though, while I'm wearing a standard t-shirt instead of a low-cut one like that, it doesn't move like you're suggesting.

[little frigate]

Yeahhhh, that's what I kinda figured once I started fucking around with IK and seeing that it clips like crazy when trying to move other parts in tandem.

I just thought I'd ask around here to see if anyone's done something similar.

[pale pumice]

hmm maybe a little it does

my partner's looking at me like wtf are you doing

[little frigate]

Yup, T-posing irl and taking a picture of you while they question your sanity. Happens to me too XD

The problem is they have overall bands too and I'm gonna run into a similar problem with chest physics.

[pale pumice]

if anything I think the low-cut neck line would go up when you t-pose, not the opposite

now I'm watching my partner move and yeah, that's what it looks like

[little frigate]

You are right about that. The screenshots of the mesh are older and in the prototyping phase still.

[pale pumice]

in any case, regardless of direction, good luck rigging that to work how you want 🙂

(please can we have Magica Cloth?)

[little frigate]

Thank you for your help anyways! I appreciate it. If you happen to know anyone who has somehow done this shoot them my way.

[pale pumice]

here's where you'd find that, but mostly I think we do janky rigs that work sorta right kinda in some weird cases....

(I do twist bones and muscle deform bones and butt-shaping bones and..... yeah)

[little frigate]

Agreed. I did a rig for a dress one time where it had pretty decent, clip free physics without using cloth. But the colliders on that thing are UNGODLY XD

[pale pumice]

said lovely partner is now looking at youtube shorts of people wearing shirts like that and we are speculating about kinematics

[sacred widget]

Diaper lover

[pale pumice]

she says you should look at ticktok to find how things work IRL.... which of course doesn't help you in the slightest bit to actually rig it 🙂

[pale pumice]

wrong channel for such things

I mean, you be you, but elsewhere please.

[little frigate]

I can learn how things actually work all I want, but yeah making them work that way is so much more difficult 😭

[pale pumice]

yep, sure is

re: dress rigging... ugh

[lost ibex]

quick question; i seem to be confused. Do i have to find a head that matches the body?

Like if i use the egirl base do i have to find a egirl head rigged to the base?

[pale pumice]

if you know how to model and rig you can make anything work

[midnight stump]

Hello! I'm new to modelling and everything and i'm wondering if anyone has tips to rigging and animating faces ? I only need eyes and pupils and i'm not sure where to start with it.. Also how to i go on for bone limits so i can also upload it as quest later on..

is it a blender thing or a unity thing ?

[pale pumice]

You can't rig in Unity, so Blender. But you can animate in either, which is easier depends on what you're doing.

[kindred wraith]

I need some help with my model, which I made myself. I rigged it, weight painted it, and made it into a VRChat avatar, but in the game, the character looks a bit... wonky? I'm not sure what caused this to happen. I assume it's a problem with the rig, so if anyone would be able to examine what's wrong with this model (which I also sent), I would be very thankful (just don't steal the model for yourself, of course).

[pale pumice]

see the pinned image for the ideal VRChat rig - you don't have enough leg bones, the shoulders are probably a bit too large and far out, and the spine should probably be straighter along the Y axis.

also make sure bone roll is 0 for all of the humanoid bones (except fingers/toes if needed)

hmm I'd smooth the weight paint a bit too

[kindred wraith]

I think I just made it worse. I've looked at the ideal rig template, I've added the toe bones, I even changed the bone roll to 0, and while yes, the arms are closer together, the leg drifted even more and I'm at a loss to how change it. I don't wanna redo everything that I've been working on for the past few days, so would it be possible for you to send me the version of the model with a leg that doesn't try to escape from the rest of the body? If you don't have the time, that's okay. But I'm only a beginner in making VRChat avatars (and 3d modeling in general), so I would appreciate the help. Also, if you decide to help me with the model, please do something to make the arms not clip with the shoulders, or just make it less apparent.

[pale pumice]

Sorry, not going to actually work on this for you.

[kindred wraith]

That's good, I understand.

[rocky moss]

Huuuoooh, wow. Everytime I want to try and start doing unity stuff with my avatar even though i dont know what im doing, the rig is apparently wrong. Ive spent so much money on fiiver gigs tryna fix this stupid humanoid rig

Doesnt help the fact i wanna upload it for quest, but atp i may as well just use the headset with my computer

[celest sun]

Am I doing this right-

Symnetrize doesnt wanna work and I feel it’s because I didn’t properly connect these ones after I deleted the other bones

What should I do to fix this?

[balmy delta]

Bones need to have the suffix of like Left or L

[celest sun]

They do.

I was told that it is because i put L. And not .L

[young niche]

Does anybody have like reference images for hip and thigh bone weight painting?

[young niche]

Just finish rigging something and now a voice in the back of my head that sings the siren song of “redo it, it will be better this time” is rearing its ugly head at my weight painting.

[pale pumice]

I'm not sure what a reference image would provide - "moves how you want it to move" is the criteria for success here, what works on one mesh won't necessarily work on others.

But also, don't be afraid to move around the geometry, or retopo sections, in order to get it to behave how you want it to.

[viscid dome]

yo can someone tell me why this happens??

idk the thumb distorts weirdly in game and in muscle settings in unity

[limpid bridge]

have you tried resetting the pose? unity's auto posing sometimes messes things up

[viscid dome]

Oh no yea I did

Idk what it is

It seem inverted

[viscid dome]

I also tried clearing the roll and deleting the bone and making a new one with the same name

I’ve checked roughly it seems to be something related to the scale tho despite the armature being all on 1

[limpid bridge]

have you tried applying pose as rest pose in blender?

[viscid dome]

Fixed it dw

[midnight stump]

Can someone help me with rigging and gogoloco? I'm drying to add gogoloco and it says i have no armature and idk what i did wrong .. And i's doing weird stuff to my rig

[pale pumice]

adding gogo loco should just be a matter of dropping a prefab on to a properly set-up avatar

[midnight stump]

That's the thing idk what i set up wrong 'cause it was fine before until i finished weight painting

It's joining the ring bone with the chest bones and the neck bone's all weird

I made this guy from scratch and i have no idea what i'm doing 🧍

[pale pumice]

you have two 'spine' bones below the 'chest' - that means the second one is chest and the chest is actually upper chest

hips -> spine -> chest -> upper chest (optional) -> neck -> head

names don't matter, but be sure you have those in the right slots in Unity

[midnight stump]

they seem to be but they don't seem placed right..And it seems to have merged the ring bone with the chest

Or maybe i don't understand..

should i bring them up in blender maybe ?

[pale pumice]

I'm not sure what "ring bone" means, but if it's not a humanoid bone, Unity doesn't care about it

[midnight stump]

oh the bone for the shoulder bar, it's supposed to float

[pale pumice]

oh, that ring, I see it

[midnight stump]

yeah.. i wanted it to follow the body but not be exact

i'm not sure how to do that; is it because it's right in front of the chest pone and parented(?) to one?

sorry if i'm using the wrong terms i'm new to this hah

[pale pumice]

you can whatever extra bones off the humanoid parts you want

[midnight stump]

figured, but why is it merged as if it were the chest piece and can't select it separately ?

[pale pumice]

I don't know what you mean by "merged" here though?

it's listed as a bone in the hierarchy, right?

[midnight stump]

yes, but it's listed as the chest, i can't select it separately and i'd like to have it be grabable maybe, is that still possible?

[pale pumice]

I'm not sure what you mean as "it's listed as the chest" - it's not the chest bone, so don't put it into the chest slot in the rig setup

[midnight stump]

i didn't do that :(

[pale pumice]

doesn't matter, you still need to correct it

[midnight stump]

how?

[pale pumice]

drag the right bones into the slots?

[midnight stump]

Thank you! I'll do that

[modern crest]

are the forearm joins supposed to be red?

[pale pumice]

no, what's it say just above this image? Always err on the side of less cropping so we can see more context

[modern crest]

I fixed it, I just had to Enforce the tpose

[rancid carbon]

How can I make it so the feathers are inside the brown base of feathers??

It does this when I bend it back or forth-

[pale pumice]

it's not at all clear how this is set up, but I'm going to guess it's a weight painting issue.

[rancid carbon]

I tried to weight paint it to make the gray feathers spread as the wings open like this-

But it's also doing that so I wanna know if there's a better way to weight paint it or rig it to do the same thing?

[pale pumice]

really hard to say from pictures

[rancid carbon]

Oh. I'm not at home right now so I'm just going off this for help. .

[pale pumice]

heh, okay

[pale pumice]

VRC Traders discord is the place for that, you'll just find scammers around here.

[austere phoenix]

Oh perfect tysm!

[tender sorrel]

Anyone have experience putting clothing on a model that wasn’t intended for that model? I’m stuck on bones and weight painting stuff. I have the CATS, rigify, and robust weight transfer add ons installed. Just confused on how to use them.

The clothing came with its own armature for a different model but I’m trying to get it to match the model I’m working on

My goal is to have each item of this clothing set be toggle able in the menu. I have shaped the clothing to the model using the elastic grab tool and added shape keys to work with the model’s sliders. Just can’t seem to go any farther. Working with Blender v 5.0.1

[pale pumice]

Yes, I've done it a couple of times. The only one of those plugins I'd use is robust weight transfer.
Mostly just reshaping in mesh edit mode with proportional editing on

[tender sorrel]

Sorry! Didn’t see this due to lack of ping.

So I kind of figured it out. I did the cats custom armature merge with the armature from the clothing item. Then did the robust weight transfer clicking body first and then the skirt. Only issue is it’s not perfect and I’m confused how to unlink things lol

[pale pumice]

yeah I don't do the cats thing, but robust weight transfer is never going to be perfect, you'll probably need to do some weight paint touchup at least.

[tender sorrel]

Would you suggest removing armatures for clothing items altogether instead of cats?

[pale pumice]

I'm not sure what you mean by that.
What I do in most cases is simply switch the clothing to use the avatar's armature, and rename weight paint vertex groups if needed. If there are extra bones, I'll strip the new armature down to just those, then join, and re-parent.
I think this is probably what cats does, but I've never used it and not looked at the code, so I can't say for sure.

[tender sorrel]

To clarify, what I mean is that some clothing sets come with armatures that are designed for a different model. Do I delete the different model’s armature and just use the armature for the avatar I want to use instead?

[pale pumice]

ultimately you want to end up with one armature. So yes, I think what you just said matches up with the method I just described

but it depends - if the clothing has extra bones you may want those

[tender sorrel]

Alright. Apologies. I’m brand new to blender entirely and learning on the fly based off what I’m reading and such

[pale pumice]

no worries!

[tender sorrel]

So the the weight paint vertexes, I’m not familiar with these. Does the robust weight transfer make those?

[pale pumice]

"weight paint vertex" isn't a thing.
"weight paint vertex group" is just a vertex group on a mesh object named the same as a bone, which contains weight data to move vertices along with that named bone. This is literally what you create when weight painting.

Robust weight transfer takes one mesh's weight data and tries to map that onto a different mesh

it does a generally okay job of this, sometimes a good job.

way better than most other tools I've seen

(edited for clarity)

[tender sorrel]

Alrighty. I know currently I have an issue where when my avatar opens its mouth, its mask does some weird things. I’ve tried smoothing the weight painting but it doesn’t seem to work

[pale pumice]

that may have nothing to do with weight painting

[tender sorrel]

Dang. Perplexing

[pale pumice]

if the mouth opens via blendshape then it's not a weight issue

[tender sorrel]

It opens when you use the slider under the data section

When it opens the it makes the mask do wild things

[pale pumice]

I have no idea what that might mean from just that description. WHat slider, what "data section" in what program?

[tender sorrel]

Data section for blender. The upside down green triangle. It’s got the sliders under “shape keys” 0.00 - 1.00

Correction as I’m looking at it now in front of me. It is when I move the armature pose that it is weird. The shape keys are insignificant

When the jaw is opened (1.00) the mask is contorted

[pale pumice]

Okay yeah the object properties area

[tender sorrel]

I’m like 90% certain the mask has attached itself to the tongue bone during the robust weight transfer

[pale pumice]

so yeah you're talking about shape keys, which have little to do with weight painting

if by "mask" you mean a mesh object, they don't "attach" themselves to bones

[tender sorrel]

I misremembered, it’s not moving with the shape keys

[tender sorrel]

I mean mask as in the photos I sent, sorry

[pale pumice]

each mesh object has its own shape keys though

I don't know what here is a mask, I've never seen your model before

but if it's a mesh object, my statement applies

[tender sorrel]

Arrow is tongue

[pale pumice]

tongue bones then, sure

so yeah, my statement still seems accurate.

[tender sorrel]

Then I’m not sure why it moves with the tongue bone

[pale pumice]

weight paint, surely

[tender sorrel]

It follows it

[pale pumice]

if mesh moves following a bone movement, then there's almost certainly weight paint involved.

[tender sorrel]

I smoothed it out though. It’s all a light blue?

[pale pumice]

(definitely in the "I want to export to unity" case, there are other ways, but not things you do for unity)

[tender sorrel]

Ideally I remove the weight connection for it altogether as the tongue bones should not mess with the mask at all

[pale pumice]

The actual color is kinda irrelevant

[tender sorrel]

Is there a way to do that?

[pale pumice]

oh then remove the vertices in question from the vertex group named for that bone

[tender sorrel]

Oh..dang.

[tender sorrel]

How? 😅

[pale pumice]

select verts, click "remove" with the vertex group selected.

[tender sorrel]

Where is verts?

Is that in the properties?

[pale pumice]

... do you know how to edit mesh in blender?

[tender sorrel]

Not sure I know what that means. I’ve been following a video for all this and they have just said to use the sculpt mode

Is mesh the actual dots on the item?

[pale pumice]

select mesh object, go into edit mode, hit '1' to go into vertex select mode, select the vertices you wish to remove, then in the properties box with the vertex groups, select the vertex group you want, and there's a "remove" button

if none of that makes sense I strongly suggest going through The Donut Tutorial

Sculpt mode is not for this.

[tender sorrel]

All I have is object mode, edit mode, sculpt mode, vertex paint, weight paint and texture paint. I don’t have a mesh object mode.

[pale pumice]

yeah donut tutorial, you're missing the basics.

blender things are objects

[tender sorrel]

🥹

[pale pumice]

an armature is an object. a mesh is an object. a curve is an object.

select an object, and then the mode dropdown at the upper left in layout mode lets you select things like "object" and "edit"

so "edit the mesh" means to select a mesh object and go into edit mode.

[tender sorrel]

How do you know if something is considered a mesh object? These clothing items all look the same.

[pale pumice]

blender basics.

"mesh" is the stuff you see, generally

it's made up of vertices, edges, and faces.

[tender sorrel]

So like when you go to edit mode after clicking the object all the dots and lines, yes?

[pale pumice]

your clothing items are probably mesh objects but also might have armatures (which are also objects)

Sure, yes, the "dots and lines" are vertices and edges (and there are also faces)

[tender sorrel]

When in edit mode I see no connection to the bones of the tongues from the vertices and edges. Not like how I see the dotted line from the bones to one another. I don’t want to get rid of movement altogether with the face mask. I just don’t want it to be attached to the tongue bone when the jaw opens.

[pale pumice]

When you're editing a mesh object, this has nothing to do with the bones or "connection" to bones.

except

that in mesh edit mode you can select vertices and add/remove them to/from vertex groups.
And vertex groups are what link those vertices to bones (though they have other uses too)

You could also weight paint them such that their weight = 0, but I often find it easier to simply select them and remove them from the group.

[tender sorrel]

Will that change the way it moves in game to be nonexistent though? That’s what I am aiming to prevent

[pale pumice]

if a vertex is not in a weight group named for a bone, it will not move with that bone.

[tender sorrel]

I’m honestly about ready to give up with this thing. I really do appreciate your help, but it seems when it comes to blender I have a smooth brain. None of this makes much sense. I’ve watched several videos and no one uses the same lingo. 🫠😅

I’ve spent like 6 hours trying to figure this out

[pale pumice]

Weird, I've not seen any videos where people don't use standard lingo.

Blender terms and names for things are pretty clear

[tender sorrel]

I’ve watched several now. Maybe it’s due to them using different versions or what but I’m lost man

[pale pumice]

about the only one I can think of that might be weird is Blender "shape keys" are Unity "blenshapes"

the rest hasn't changed in Blender in years

[tender sorrel]

There’s several tools that have been changed name wise. One being the elastic thing.

[pale pumice]

elastic thing?

[tender sorrel]

Yeah the sculpting tool

[pale pumice]

looks blank?

[tender sorrel]

The name has been changed a few times according to different versions.

[pale pumice]

sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about

[tender sorrel]

I’ve seen it in comments under videos explaining it too

Its alright. I haven’t the slightest clue what you’ve said either 😅

[pale pumice]

but if you mean some random add-on, whatever, who knows what those are about, and you don't technically need any of them for any part of this

[tender sorrel]

I’m in edit mode while clicking the object. I don’t see anything further. 1 doesn’t seem to do anything either.

[tender sorrel]

Nope. This is base blender

[pale pumice]

I can't think of anything with the name "elastic" in Blender

[tender sorrel]

Sculpting tool names

[pale pumice]

ah, I also almost never use sculpting mode.

maybe it's a brush? I dunno

[tender sorrel]

Every video I’ve watched said to do that do adjust where the clothing lays on the model

[pale pumice]

huh

[tender sorrel]

So that’s what I’ve done.

Lol

[pale pumice]

I use just plain old edit mode with proportional editing on, and do some clever positioning of the 3D cursor

I guess you could sculpt things though

[tender sorrel]

Are you saying I have to delete these?

Cause from my understanding, this is how it moves

[pale pumice]

I did not say you have to delete mesh

[tender sorrel]

And I don’t want to loose movement

The vertices

The dots

[pale pumice]

I said to remove them from the vertex group you don't want them to move with

[tender sorrel]

How do I find the vertex group of the tongue? Is that through body?

Instead of the object itself?

[pale pumice]

You seem to be lacking a whole lot of basics here, I've explained a few times but I really suggest The Donut Tutorial.
Each object has its own vertex groups.

Vertex groups are in the properties box tab that looks like a green triangle with circles at the points

- when editing a mesh object.

[tender sorrel]

Found the vertex group section for the face mask. Don’t have tongue there. Just jaw. Cannot find a way to remove/deactivate jaw.

[pale pumice]

If there's no jaw vertex group then it doesn't move with the jaw bone movement.