avatar-rigging

[quasi urchin]

ohh

[pale pumice]

Also assume that joining anything like this you may have to do some reshaping to make it look how you want.

[serene whale]

Do you use the CATS plugin at all?

[quasi urchin]

yes i do

[serene whale]

okay so the easiest way I can explain it because I can’t record on my laptop and trying to record with my phone and do this isn’t easy.

[quasi urchin]

yeahh, i dont usually mess with edit mode since i mold most of my clothes in sculpt mode so this has been giving me a headache for weeks now 😭

[serene whale]

What I’ve always done is, drop the Custom Model Creation tab down and locate when I’m assuming you merged your meshes, right?

I do, Merge Armatures and only have the Merge Bones checked

[quasi urchin]

i did crtl+j to merge the meshes cause cats keeps sending my head into narnia even with apply transforms on

[serene whale]

That will put the head under the body but because there’s no weight paint, the head will not be attached to the neck when you move.

[pale pumice]

apply transforms "on"? It's a thing you run once, not a setting you turn on

[pale pumice]

yeah that's not the thing we're usually referring to

in object mode, select an object, ctrl+a and you can apply all transforms there.

you want to do that before you join objects or they might be scaled/rotated differently.

[serene whale]

Yes, so you only want to have merge all bones checked

[quasi urchin]

ohhhhhh that explains a lot

[serene whale]

Mhm

[quasi urchin]

im so sorry for sounding stupid, blender hurts my head somedays

[pale pumice]

the FBX dialog even has a warning with that "apply transforms" checkbox

[serene whale]

And then you’ll select the body first, ctrl click on the head and enter weight paint

Make sure what you’re weight painting is the head by searching here

And I make sure the ENTIRE head is being effected

[pale pumice]

they were struggling with matching weight paint in the head and body while they were separate meshes.

[quasi urchin]

so erm, this keeps happening when i click all transforms with either cats or the crtl+a version

[pale pumice]

this is a strange model you have here.

[serene whale]

I’m just sharing what I personally do

[quasi urchin]

yeah 😔

[pale pumice]

I get that, but it's not what Skylar was working on.

[quasi urchin]

im using zinfit base and the kyomi head by saikura

[serene whale]

Like I said, my knowledge is very small with blender. Clearly you aren’t being very helpful either.

[pale pumice]

... well then, didn't expect an attack, okay

you all have fun with this.

[serene whale]

For me, it would be easier to identify a solution by seeing what’s going on in blender. I’m also a visual learner

[quasi urchin]

can we not argue please? i really need this to work 😭

[serene whale]

But going by words and a few pictures, I’m lost

[quasi urchin]

i can try recording both when i weightpaint and when i merge the vertices

[serene whale]

that may help

Let me attempt to do what you did and see if I can fix it

[quasi urchin]

oh my lord im stupid, i just got the head narnia thing to fix itself 😭

[serene whale]

oh that’s good !

is there still a gap when the head moves?

[quasi urchin]

yeah there is, im finishing the recording up rn

[serene whale]

Okay, I’m not sure how you’d fix that.. you could maybe delete some vertices and join them yourself to fix it. I’ve never ran into this problem so I’m not sure

when you’re positioning the head on the model, do you place the head directly on the neck or do you have some of the neck inside the head? That could be why there’s a gap too

[quasi urchin]

with this head theres a no neck shapekey but the shapekey even when applied to basis reverts when in edit mode and still creates the dip in the neck when merging the vertices, and for weightpainting it doesnt change anything

its a fairly long video so sorry for that 😭

[serene whale]

Okay, stick with what you have

But click on the body first, ctrl click on the head and go into weight paint

Try to weight paint the head

I’m a little rusty, let me try rq

When I do it, granted my bones are already merged, there’s no gap when the head is moved

[quasi urchin]

i'm honestly not sure why its different for others but breaks for me cause i've tried with the amelia head as well and it still doesnt work like it should

[serene whale]

Want me to try? If you’re comfortable you can dm me the FBX of your model and I’ll try to do it

[quasi urchin]

the entire head is already weightpainted 🥲

[quasi urchin]

honestly that would be appreciated

[serene whale]

Go ahead !

[quasi urchin]

Sent!

[serene whale]

If I’m able to fix it, I’ll let you know what I did so you can fix it if it ever happens again

[serene whale]

Alrighty, give me a few minutes, gotta use the bathroom and I’ll be on it

[quasi urchin]

thank you so much, i appreciate the help a lot

[robust crescent]

Thats a very old cats and when headswapping you need to connect the vertices or its easy to get wierd holes when you bend it , leg exsample but its the same for anything

seen some just shove neck into head to avoid it, looks wierd when you look up close tho

if any blendshape affect neck you can shape propogate part of it so its never affected by any shapekey

[trim bay]

please help why does my nail keep running away, i am using blender 4.1 after using 3.4 for years everything is so different im so scared

[balmy delta]

how models work havent changed much between those version

just looks like bad weight painting

[trim bay]

thank you i will try checking

[serene whale]

I’ve never had issues with it, but she was having issues due to the head only being compatible with 2 bodies it was properly rigged to. With time, we were able to find a solution while playing with it the best we could

[spiral tartan]

hi hi!! does anyone know if its possible to have two diferent pairs of bones for breasts? the reason im looking to do this is because my "boobs -" blendshape changes where the breasts are and thus changes how the physbone affects the movement and doesnt line up with the colliders. is it possible to have "small boob" bones and toggle them on when the smaller breasts are toggled? im not just talking about new physbones, but having two different bones weighted to the same mesh and switching between them. thank you!

[pale pumice]

sure, that's entirely possible. Just might be fun with the weight painting.

[spiral tartan]

both sets of bones would always have influence though right? no way to ignore the bone's influence on the mesh, right?

[pale pumice]

Yep, pretty much.

[spiral tartan]

ideally it would just prohibit movement a bit 🤔

[uneven dust]

Anyone know what the problem is with this setup? Unity says the upper legs are not a child of the hips. I am not able to make them the child of the hips without breaking the spine.

[uneven dust]

This is the unity view

[brazen island]

your legs must be paranted to hips, whats breaking in that

like, heres random image where you can see relation dotted lines #avatar-rigging message

[uneven dust]

I thought they had to be parented to the hips

Well I matched the example given, realizing it usually works better selecting the whole bone and then the end of a bone to parent. Now it acts like the spine doesn't exist in unity when it is actually connected to everything

wait I might have it figured out

Ok so full explanation, parenting bones has to be done by selecting the whole bone and then the end of another bone, which idk how I went this far without understanding that, and any bones without weights will show up as invisible

[wooden niche]

hey guys i think theres something wrong with my avatars rig, specifically the hip and leg bones; for some reason when im using fullbody tracking the hip goes out and the legs go kinda backwards when im standing up straight, this doesnt happen with any other avatars i tested btw. ive tried moving these bones around and nothing changes. idk what to do anymore lmao ive tried everything i can think of😭

sometimes the legs also stick out too but i think maybe thats just because the legs are so short idk. this avatar just behaves really weird with fbt in general, tysm if u can help with this!!

[robust crescent]

id try changing the spine and leg abit, too straight might confuse it wich way its ment to bend

[fallen iron]

Good tip for me to know now as well, ty

Even though I already inherently did that mostly

[wooden niche]

thank you for this! i will try this tomorrow

[robust nacelle]

the arm is from a different body than the hand how would I connect the vertices/bodies, cause everytime I merge armatures the hand doesnt move with the rest of the arm?

[balmy delta]

ehhhhhhhhh

merge vertices

[hybrid wasp]

Hey! Uhhhh this isn’t really an individual model issue just more of an issue on my end and my lack of knowledge when it comes to blender, but I have this issue to where I try to import my model from blender into unity and I either check the rig or put it in play mode, Its mesh completely shrinks to the size of the amateur or rig…. This is not just a singular model issue It happens with every model I try to import from blender into unity specifically after sculpting and I have no idea how to fix it and I’ve been dealing with it for a long time so can anybody with blender experience help me out with this?? my DM’s are open if you want one on one..

[opaque cloak]

what export settings are you using in blender?

[hybrid wasp]

You know what... I never checked that out. What export setting do I need for importing models into unity for vrc?

[opaque cloak]

these might not be 100% correct (anyone correct me if there's sth wrong), but these are the ones I use without issues <3 they're on the right in the export tab when you export as fbx in blender

[hybrid wasp]

ahhhh ok! ill trythese setting out and see if they work!

[hybrid wasp]

BROOOO OH MY FUCKIN GAWDDDDDDD!! Thank you! I’ve been struggling with this for a year, and now it’s finally solved. Thank you so much, oh my gosh!

[opaque cloak]

YAYY!! I'm glad I could help <33

[wooden niche]

hi! i know its been a few days but i tried doing this and it ended up making me look hunched over ingame ;/ the legs were also still doing the same thing as before. heres what i did: (ive since updated the rig to fix the hunching over but i needed to straighten the chest bone like how it was before😭)

also sorry for the ping

[ashen heath]

not entirely sure if this fits the "rigging" channel but. worth trying, trying to make it so you can change the models chief uses in the different halo games, the default is infinite but how would i make halo 4 stuff work here?

[ashen heath]

using gesture manager currently in this image

the halo 4 model is completley rigged and works fine

[broken trout]

can someone with the exo male base answer whether it has twistbones or not? Thanks

[azure crest]

is this right?

this is my first time rigging

[pale pumice]

See the pinned image for the ideal rig - you need more spine bones and the arm bones to be pointing down towards the hand.

[azure crest]

ok

[wooden niche]

hey guys for the legs is it ok to have them like this or do they need to be 100% vertically straight? will this affect fbt?

[stray quest]

it should still roughly be fine, with fbt the only thing is you would calibrate with the wider stance to compensate but overall looks fine to me

[wooden niche]

ah alr thank you!!

[modest vigil]

I did a data transfer, weight painted, and parented the object but belly button piercing wont move with the avatar on blender

[arctic sundial]

check the modifier pointing to the correct armature

[wispy nova]

Guys does anyone where to check how much triangles tnis contains

https://www.deviantart.com/whitemagesunny/art/Overwatch-2-Sombra-ANTIFRAGILE-Slay-Star-993014656

[pale pumice]

stick it into Blender?

[mild summit]

Hey should my tail be connected to the spine.

Is that okay? Or is it gonna cause problems for me later?

[pale pumice]

I usually prefer to place it off the lowest bone in the spine, which is usually named "Hips"

[wispy nova]

I dknt have a PC but before I commission someone 1 I wanna make sure its not above rhe limit

[vestal summit]

Where did you get the avatar? Most creators write the amount of polygons on the page of their store, have you checked the description of it? Also, most if not all don't allow for sharing the files or commissioning someone for an edit unless both parties have bought their own copy, so you should keep that in mind

[pale pumice]

haha, so many don't

[vestal summit]

Oh I'm used to seeing it

[pale pumice]

yep, good ones do

[wispy nova]

It doesn't say sadly

I dont think it was designed for vrc

But i dont see why it sjoukdnt work if its not above the limit

[robust crescent]

and no its not at all ready for any vrchat , zero shapekeys , mess of bones wrong way - your average xna avatar

[vestal summit]

Oh I didn't even read and didn't realize it was a game model rip oops ignore my message then

[wispy nova]

Is that the model i sent

[wispy nova]

But its in the triangle limit right?

What do I need to ask for then rigging or?

[robust crescent]

that one would need fixing bone orientation/ext , adding shapekeys , optimizing steps (bones/materials/texture atlas-baking /bone groups ect) about 2-3 hour work

[wispy nova]

Ok ty im not gina pretend like i understand that but I'll send it to the person im commissioning and see what they say😭

[somber cliff]

Posting this here in case it's a rigging issue: Hey yall, my avi is clipping through its bounding box into the floor in gsme. It's like my rig is stuck higher up than the model. How do i fix? I know it's not the Viewpoint in Unity, it might be a Blender issue...

[wispy nova]

Would u say $30 is fair

[warm dagger]

Hi! Quick question

I’m a pretty experienced game dev and I rig a lot (most of the rigs i make for games have over 1k bones). For VR rigs, do you actually need IK/FK switches and drivers, or is that more of an animation thing?

[pale pumice]

animation

all you need is an armature that looks like the one pinned here

[warm dagger]

oh

thats it

thats pretty easy

😭

[pale pumice]

yep

[warm dagger]

so no ik constraints either??

[warm dagger]

i would angle the bone abit

lik

e

this

[warm dagger]

would adding twist bones make any significant changes to the rig or will it remain the same if i just do regular bones

[pale pumice]

nah, twist bones work just fine, you just have to use rotation constraints in Unity

[warm dagger]

i do most of my work in blender

would the twist bone export still work in unity? or would i need to add the damped an rotation onto the bones from unity?

[pale pumice]

no constraints of any kind carry over, you have to set them up in unity

and you get no limiters

[warm dagger]

oh ok thank you

[pale pumice]

np

[copper mulch]

so i have this model it came rigged and when i try uploading it to vrchat the model separated im guessing its the rig if anyone can explain how to fix

[pale pumice]

what needs fixing though?

[thorn sky]

I'm working on this model with him and we were told by one of his friends we need to redo the bones ourselves since it came posed. We tried a bunch of different ways to get it working in unity but it either just looks invisible when placed in or parts are spread out randomly, it's not the model we think it's the bones

[pale pumice]

can't quite tell from the pic which bone is which - octahedral display is nicer for this, but it looks okay at a glance

[thorn sky]

i got it with the names now

[pale pumice]

doesn't really show the spine layout I was looking for but eh, it looks reasonable enough

it does look like the origin is at the hip bone rather than the floor, you'll want to fix that

[thorn sky]

ok so i changed the origin but when i put Origin to Geometry it made it look like the first image and if i put Origin to 3D Cursor it just makes it look like the second image

[pale pumice]

just select all the mesh objects and apply all transforms, then fix the armature

[thorn sky]

i applied the transforms to all the mesh, is that the same with the armature?

[pale pumice]

probably

[thorn sky]

idk if any of this is right but after doing all that and testing it in unity it just does this still

[pale pumice]

not sure what you were setting the origin on in the video

nor why?

[thorn sky]

i thought the red and white circle was the origin

[pale pumice]

no, it's the 3D cursor

which may be at the world origin

[thorn sky]

would than mean i have to set the model and armature in the middle of where the 3d cursor is, and would that fix the spreading out in unity?

[pale pumice]

you should have all of those parts and the armature to have their origins at the world origin

and the model standing on that spot

[thorn sky]

is this at the world origin? cause its still moving the bones away from the model a bit when i set either 'origin to' option and i move the model to stand on the cursor and i put it in unity to test and it still is separated. I'm new to all this bone stuff so it confuses me a bit

[pale pumice]

Yes but again, the avatar should be standing on the world origin, with +Z up and -Y into the screen.

[copper mulch]

how do you do that

[pale pumice]

move the avatar?

literally move the armature around until it's positioned like that, and then apply all transforms.

[copper mulch]

weird question if we make a server can you join call to explain thats the only way we will be able to understand

[pale pumice]

no

[warm dagger]

it maybe transforms an origin problems

but idk much about vr

[copper mulch]

how can i fix those problems

[warm dagger]

position it so the feet is above the origin

like so

let me send a img

like this

select all ctrl a

all transforms

right click

set oriign to 3d cursor

idk if this works

but

@pale pumice

ask him

[thorn sky]

@warm dagger it was posed when we first opened the file and reset it to a t-pose and did all that and it still didn't work

[pale pumice]

?

[wooden niche]

hey guys for some reason whenever i apply all transforms to my armature in blender, the bone roll automatically gets set to a number that isnt 0

although it is a very small number im still not sure if it matters or not?

[pale pumice]

set it to 0 then.

[wooden niche]

yea i did but then i applied the transforms and it just goes back to being a random number

should i just not apply transforms?

[pale pumice]

what is this object?

[wooden niche]

its the leg of my avatar but most other bones do this too

its very odd

[pale pumice]

you should not be applying transforms to leg bones

what is your goal here?

[wooden niche]

just to set all humanoid bones roll to 0, but when i apply transform it just doesnt stay at 0

it does this for other bones not just for the legs

[pale pumice]

again, why are you applying transforms for bones?

there's no reason to do that

[wooden niche]

oh really? i thought i needed to 😭

[pale pumice]

no

you do that for the armature and mesh objects on an avatar

not for individual bones

[wooden niche]

oh i didnt do it for each individual bone if thats what you mean

[pale pumice]

... then I have no idea what you are doing. Please explain in detail.

[wooden niche]

i selected all the objects in object mode (armature and body mesh) and applied all transforms

[pale pumice]

that is good.

[wooden niche]

then i went back to edit mode to check the bone roll and it wasnt at 0

[pale pumice]

and if you set it to 0?

[wooden niche]

yea if i set it back to 0 its fine its just when i apply transforms it doesnt stay at 0

[pale pumice]

okay

[wooden niche]

after applying the transform, should i just go back to edit mode and set the bone roll all back to 0 and it will be fine?

[pale pumice]

that's what I would do

[wooden niche]

alright, thank you for helping me :D appreciate it

[wintry jetty]

am i the only one who thinks its odd most guides use two additional bones instead of just one for twisting?

is there some reason for it that im not getting being a blender nerd

[misty hound]

better control over the bending

the bends and twists are more smooth

instead of being a straight bend line

Simply looks more natural to how iit would be irl

don't know if it makes a big difference in vrchat tho, especially for a simple shape like an arm

[wintry jetty]

given im going to use poyomi toon its a detail i doubt anyone will notice

the cell shading will probobly cover up any bad deformations like that

[misty hound]

then one extra twist bone will be more than enough

[wintry jetty]

okay. thank you for clearing that up with me.

two is for a more refined twist but one is good enough as long as you do your weight painting right

[winged ember]

I have a related question, one of my lower arm twist bone copies hand bone's Z rotation with weight set to 0.5. However, when my hand bone's Z rotation rotates cross -180 degree (e.g. -179 -> -181 degree), the twist bone "flips", instead of rotating -90 degrees, it suddenly rotates 90 degree instead. Is this expected? Should I worry about it? I think maybe it's not possible for hand bone to rotate 180 degree relatively to lower arm bone in game so maybe this wouldn't be a real issue

[clever grove]

is there a non destructable way to turn a animation rig into a vrchat rig?

[clever grove]

i cannot move my rig in pose mode, the bones are stuck in place

[cedar zealot]

My VRChat avatar has a problem.
When I use it in-game, the clothes and hair do not move with the body and stay stiff instead of following the avatar's movements.
In Unity, everything looks fine, but inside VRChat the clothes and hair are not attached or rigged correctly.
I would really appreciate any help on how to fix this issue.

[pale pumice]

So a few of us replied in #avatar-help but you didn't respond - maybe go do that instead of trying in another channel

[cedar zealot]

I tried everything is not working

@pale pumice I am trying to find new solutions for it.

[stone timber]

how do i remove these bones in the star?

and my viewpoint is broken too

[pale pumice]

edit armature, select bones, x to delete them.

[stone timber]

my friend who made it is chronically offline

[balmy delta]

Delete key also works

[pale pumice]

sure, whichever delete method you prefer

[stone timber]

my broken viewpoint causes this bug

idk why it does this

and i have little experience on making or fixing avis

[native pecan]

anyone know how to keep the ring attached to the ear when i added bones it stays stuck,

[pale pumice]

not sure what part is the ear, but I'm betting the answer is "weight paint it to the bone you want it to move with"

[native pecan]

ill try doing that, sorry shouldve been more specific or sent the first image tried in another server with people sorta being ehh

i want it right there

so id weight paint it?

[pale pumice]

If you want it to move along with that bone, yes. Also.... that seems like a lot of polygons?

[native pecan]

yeah ik its more of a test so i can learn how to do this

[pale pumice]

ok

[native pecan]

but thanks i apperciete it

[pale pumice]

is the ring a separate object, or part of another one?

[native pecan]

its attached to the mesh

[pale pumice]

that didn't really answer my question though

[native pecan]

what?

ohh

[pale pumice]

the reason I was asking is that if it's an independent object, you'll need to add an armature modifier pointing at the armature you're using, before you can weight paint.

[native pecan]

fair and no its on the model its all one thing

thanks for the help!

that did the trick!

tysm for ur help

[pale pumice]

excellent!

[marble apex]

I have this setup with an armature but for some reason, it's not working when it comes to weight painting (if this is the right channel for it)

[pale pumice]

It is. You should have the mesh object be a child of the armature, and you need an armature modifier on that mesh object, linking it to the armature

[marble apex]

where do I go to put in the modifier?

oooooh wait, do I set the parent type as Armature?

[pale pumice]

parent type?

[marble apex]

right under where I set the parent

[pale pumice]

oh I've never messed with this - and checking one of mine, no, leave it as object.

go to the wrench tab, add an armature modifier

with the armature in the "Object" field

[marble apex]

Deform > Armature?

[pale pumice]

Yes, that is an armature modifier.

[marble apex]

alright, thanks for the help 😄

[marble apex]

it's still giving me the thing where I weight paint for one bone, go to another bone and it's still there, I'll show what I mean in a minute

[pale pumice]

yeah it does that, not sure why. Select the bone you want to paint at the top, or ctrl+shift click the bone.

[marble apex]

where the Vortex Groups thing is at the top?

[pale pumice]

yep

technically you're adding paint to vertex groups, not bones

[merry quail]

i have a cable of sorts that is held together at both ends, how should i rig it so that the middle of it can jiggle around while still having both ends be directly connected to bones

every tutorial im seeing is like hair, suspended at one end and bouncing around, but i need it suspended at both sides, like holding two ends of a string and rocking it side to side

[rare moon]

There's a few ways to go about this, but the simplest way is to just add a chain of a couple of bones in the middle and weight paint to that, or have bones on either end that aim at the end of that physbone chain

[hoary plume]

Hello! i have a question for anyone who can help, im trying to figure out how to rig a 4 legged avatar. the model is the steel watcher construct titan from Baulders Gate. Me and a few others have been trying to rig this and cant figure it out at all.

Any help would be appreciated :]

[pale pumice]

there's a discord specifically for this, "virtual limbs" - that's probably the best place for advice

[hoary plume]

oh alright, thanks for the info!

[stray quest]

thats a easy fix in unity, a rule i like going by for characters with big heads is to shove the view point way into the head where the neck would end and up to slightly above the nose/muzzle. the reason why your model is doing that is essentially the pivot of where your looking causing that to happen (usually if you look down and your feet start hovering like that its too far down in the head)

i work with sonic models, its a comon problem ive troubleshooted many times TwT

[hoary plume]

i went to the discord and stuff, they use stuff i dont have access to and that quest players cant see i think [friends]

so ill have to try and find something else if possible

[astral path]

IK tracking is the way to do it then for the quest side they get a animation not IK

[hoary plume]

yeah, i know that now

only thing is i dont have IK

and dont exactly know how to replace animations on avis

[astral path]

there final IK

Fast IK which is free but not as good a final IK
also AnyIK

[hoary plume]

so would final Ik scripts still work with fast?

also about the animating thing for quest, if Ik doesn't really work out could i just do the for pc as well?

[astral path]

idk if fast ik works with final

yes animating works for both buit you dont get that other legs look they will be clipping the ground

[pale pumice]

Yeah FinalIK is probably the best way to do that

[hoary plume]

Alright well, im putting that to the side atm.

Another thing i do need help with is Uv Unwrapping

no matter how i do it, my textures get messed up

[pale pumice]

If you have existing textures then trying to re-unwrap is going to be very difficult. Come into #avatar-help (it's not rigging) and tell us what your actual goal is, maybe we can advise.

[mortal falcon]

I wanna put an outfit on an avatar that has a different base from the one it's technically made for. Normally for simple clothes I sculpt it to fit and use robust weight transfer, but in this case the outfit is already fully rigged and includes extra bones for things like a skirt and hanging cloth pieces that I'd rather not manually rig if I don't have to.

What's a good way to preserve the rig with the extra skirt/cloth bones while also making it move properly with the avi? I'm imagining there should be a way to only write over the weights for standard humanoid bones (hips, spine, arms, etc.) while leaving the existing skirt/cloth vertex groups and extra bones untouched?

[pale pumice]

what I'd do here is, in Blender, strip the new rig down to only the add-on bones, then join it into the avatar's armature, and rename any of the vertex groups on the new clothing items that don't match the bone names on the avatar.
Then reshape, and very likely re-weight paint.

[next matrix]

Hi everyone, is it possible to implement a similar piston system in VRChat?

[pale pumice]

you could try using look-at constraints for those

[scenic walrus]

Hey guys im checking if the trackers while in game bind to the IK system hand and feet bones and the headset like the quest binds to whatever i set the viewpoint or does it bind to the headbone or between the eyebones or something? Sweet super science picture for reference

[stray quest]

in short everything is setup for it to work like that for your hands and feet, for your head it will always be mounted to the head bone aswell but you can adjust the viewpoint in the avatar pipeline. its usually recommended for human like avatars to be somewhere in between the eyes but it can be changed and experimented with. hope this clears anything up

just by looking at the rig and the bones in the config you should be good, nothing seems out of place

[scenic walrus]

Thanks a ton! The viewpoint between the eyebones is interesting, i will definetly try that out! Yay!

[silver sable]

afternoon! i tried to change my avatar's pose from an a-pose to a t-pose in blender, and now i've got a problem with my avatar's fingers. this happens in any position, but if i hold my hands out with my palms up (as a point of reference) they kind of bend inwards towards the center of the body. i tried changing the bone rolls of everything down from the upper arms to 50/-50, but it's still pretty skewed. should i look into "muscles & settings" in unity's avatar config to fix this?

not to mention that for some reason the ring finger is a little dislocated, its position offset out and forward, despite it looking pretty normal in unity. not sure how to fix that ^^;

[jolly frost]

am i doing this right??? how do i link the body to the skeleton?

ok the fingers arent attached to the wraists for some reason in pose mode

[pale pumice]

you link via weight painting

[jolly frost]

i tryed auto weighing but it messed up my model so i had to undo

[pale pumice]

yeah it's not usually very good

[jolly frost]

oh the model im using doesnt really have a movable head, what do i do with the neck?

[pale pumice]

you don't need to weight paint any mesh to the humanoid bones, but they must be present

[jolly frost]

wdym

i really dont know alot about blender, i only started yesterday 😭

oh wait no day before yesterday

[limpid bridge]

vrchat is very picky about humanoid rigs, but you can trick it by adding fake bones that don't do anything (i.e they're only there to satisfy vrchat)

[stiff crater]

Anyone know what could make this happen ? My foot bone is correctly bound in unity, but in game it only turns left/right not up/down ..?

[limpid bridge]

could it be that it follows the wrong axis? the correct one should be y, but in the video it looks like it's set to x
assuming you're using constraints or physbones
otherwise i have no idea

otherwise you might have accidentally locked the rotation

[stiff crater]

When it goes left right, its the correct orientation as my real foot, but when I move up/down the toes don't move, just the leg like in the vid

[jolly frost]

How would I do that??? Let alone get my model to work with my rig

[stiff crater]

Locked ? In the rigging ?

[limpid bridge]

in the unity scene, possibly

[jolly frost]

Are the toes attached ?

[stiff crater]

Ofc ?

[stiff crater]

Where can I find that lock option ?

[limpid bridge]

not sure, i just recall there being something like that
but maybe it was on a component like constraints

[stiff crater]

I see

Bruh you're right

Creator added a constraint on the foot 💀

Never used that so I didn't know it could be the issue but thank you ! ^^

[jolly frost]

how do i fix the hnad on the model im using? the very top of the fingers at attached to the middle bone but its hard to explain, they arent attach in a way i can move them in a certain way

i cant rotate that point in pose mode

and the other similar points are etheir paired with a point just like it or have the same issue

but i can still move the whole hand

its so odd

[pale pumice]

looks like the hand isn't weight painted

[jolly frost]

im waiting to do that last, im not done with the skeleton

[pale pumice]

oh okay, well it looks correct otherwise

you don't need all those hand bones though, just one

[jolly frost]

wdym?

[pale pumice]

looks like you have four bones in the hand, you only need one.

all the finger bones should be direct children of the hand bone.

[jolly frost]

oh i never added those, i used the defualt humanoid

[pale pumice]

okay

[jolly frost]

how do i get the weight paint mode to work? i cant select the bones while i am in paint mode to make said bones get affected by the areas i want

[pale pumice]

put an armature modifier on the mesh object.
in object mode, select the armature, then shift-select the mesh object.
go into weight paint mode.
ctrl+shift-click a bone to paint

I'd also make sure you have auto-normalize on too. And I like "accumulate" as well.
oh and mirroring unless it's not symmetrical

[jolly frost]

still cant select bones in weight paint mode

they just dissappear

[pale pumice]

disappear?

are they hidden? alt+h to unhide

[jolly frost]

nope

[pale pumice]

ideally you want the mesh parts to be children of the armature too

[jolly frost]

?

[pale pumice]

did you see the bones when you're in object mode?

[jolly frost]

yes

wait no

[pale pumice]

Also if you want this to be a vrchat avatar you'll probably want to clean up all of those empty objects

[jolly frost]

what empty objects?

[pale pumice]

your hierarchy is littered with them, the little tri-pointed orange thingy

[jolly frost]

those are part of the model, i just have them hidden

so i can see the basic body better

see?

[pale pumice]

see what?

[jolly frost]

all the objects

thats the model without anything hidden

[pale pumice]

okay, I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

[jolly frost]

all those empty objects your talking about are parts of the model ive hidden so i can see the main body parts better, they arent empty

[pale pumice]

they are "empty objects", which are a specific type of object in blender. That doesn't mean they don't have child objects.

[jolly frost]

this? or this?

[pale pumice]

left one is an empty, right one is mesh

[jolly frost]

oh i see what your saying, the person who made the model didnt name anything so i had no idea what those were, i renamed everything so i can know whats what, what should i do about them?

[pale pumice]

Also if you want this to be a vrchat avatar you'll probably want to clean up all of those empty objects
clean up as in remove

[jolly frost]

wont that delete the stuff thats attatched to it?

[pale pumice]

Yes, deleting an object will (usually) delete its children as well. re-parent stuff.

[jolly frost]

neat, they werent set as children

so can just delete them without issue

[jolly frost]

better?

[pale pumice]

wow that's a lot of parts.

But those should be children of the armature.

and each one needs an armature modifier.

ideally you join those before export, but keep going now.

[jolly frost]

Do I need to individually set each part of the body as a child for the relative bone? Or the whole body as a child to the whole skeleton?

[pale pumice]

mesh objects should be children of the armature object, for the ideal vrchat use.

[jolly frost]

So the first thing I said?

[pale pumice]

not at all the first thing you said - the second.

[jolly frost]

Thank god

[jolly frost]

you got to be kidding! I UNDID WHAT AUTOWEIGHTING DID TO THE MODEL WHY THE HELL IS IT STILL MESSED UP, i cant undo it etheir, its been to far in the process

[pale pumice]

what's messed up here? It doesn't look like you have any armature modifiers

[jolly frost]

look at theback tank, it got scaled up and moved when i tryed autoweighing yesterday, but im guessing i never fully undid the process, thank god i saved last night before i did it, i didnt make much progress today anyway so at least i can fix it quickly (i hope)

wait a min, when i deleted some of those "empty" objects just now, the tank moved

if they are empty how are they affecting the size and orination?

[pale pumice]

yeah - they might have transforms that you'd have to deal with

[jolly frost]

should i just leave the objects that actually do something?

[pale pumice]

I'd remove every one of those empties.

[jolly frost]

how do i transfer the transforms then?

[pale pumice]

you can apply them, or there should be a way to re-parent the child objects without the transforms, I forget how offhand.

[jolly frost]

is this what you mean?

[pale pumice]

you seem to have selected a bone?

[jolly frost]

yeah, but thats odd, this model shouldnt have any, it wasnt a blend file to begin with

[pale pumice]

not sure what you mean, you're in armature edit mode there so of course there are bones

[jolly frost]

how about now?

[pale pumice]

what was it you wanted me to say about this?

[jolly frost]

is that the transform thats affecting the object?

that when i delete the empty one the transform is gone

[pale pumice]

Oh - look at those numbers. Those are defaults, so no, this object has no active transforms

[jolly frost]

then how is the empty object affecting the mesh??

[pale pumice]

couldn't tell you based on the info I have.

[jolly frost]

ok so it seems that only the tanks on the back of the model are affected which barely use any empty objects, so until i know how i can remove them without messing up the model im going to leave the empty objects alone for those ones

[jolly frost]

ok i got that fixed, should i bother keeping the neck of my model since he cant really move his head?

[jolly frost]

wait a min, when i clear the parent status on the model thats when the tanks get messed up, can the parent status affect anything like that???

wait. when i tell it to keep transformation, it works

i can delete the empty objects without issue now!

[jolly frost]

do i just set each one with an armature modifier and leave it or do i need to change something to be specific for each part?

[pale pumice]

any object you want to weight paint requires an armature modifier

[jolly frost]

so just set all the arms and legs and main body with the object metarig?

[pale pumice]

of course, have it target the armature you're using

[jolly frost]

alr

[jolly frost]

k i set everything to have a modifier, how do i set the whole mesh as a child to the metarig?

also thank you so much for your help and patience!

[pale pumice]

"whole mesh"?

[jolly frost]

the whole body

[jolly frost]

this ^

how do i do this

[odd ruin]

select the mesh(es) and then the armature

order matters here because the last object you select in a group is the "active" object
Ctrl + P while in Object Mode to show the Parent Selected to Active menu
select Armature Deform

[pale pumice]

no I mean there is no "whole body" in your project - you have lots of mesh objects. Drag them to the armature and drop while holding shift to parent

I suppose that ^ works too

[jolly frost]

how do i do that, my armature doesnt show up in object mode

[pale pumice]

why wouldn't it?

[jolly frost]

i dont know

[pale pumice]

is it in a hidden collection or something?

[jolly frost]

and if im in edit mode i cant select the mesh

i can see both in edit

but i cant select the mesh in edit

only the armature

[pale pumice]

I can clearly see it in the outliner in this image

[jolly frost]

thats in edit mode

like i said

[pale pumice]

the outliner doesn't change based on which editor mode you are in

[jolly frost]

wdym outliner?

the object list?

[pale pumice]

basic blender stuff - that upper-right window in the image there contains the outliner

it's the object list, yes.

[jolly frost]

done

it made everything go under the metarig, neat

now i can weight paint it manually?

and it will work?

[odd ruin]

yeah

though if you want to weight paint it you should redo the parenting part but choose With Empty Vertex Groups

otherwise weight painting (probably) won't work
-# in my experience

[pale pumice]

no, you don't need to do that

[jolly frost]

i still cant see the armature in wieghtpaint mode.....

[odd ruin]

there've been a number of moments where weight painting mysteriously breaks until I have it generate vertex groups
it's worth noting if for some reason it doesn't work sometimes

[pale pumice]

huh, I've never seen that happen.

and I've literally never used that function.

[odd ruin]

select the armature and then the mesh you want to weight paint

[odd ruin]

"every copy of blender is personalized" or something

[pale pumice]

haha perhaps

[jolly frost]

now i cant see the armature in editmode, wtf

sure i can select it in the object list but not the bone i want

[pale pumice]

do you mean in the 3D view you can't see the bones? or it's disappearing form the outliner or something?

Check to see if you have bone collections

[jolly frost]

3d view

its still in the outliner

i have bone collections

[pale pumice]

are they marked as visible?

[jolly frost]

i cant change if they are or arent

[pale pumice]

no no -in the properties box, expand the collections dropdown

[jolly frost]

ok? what now?

[pale pumice]

... what do you think to do now?

[pale pumice]

no no, that's not bone collectiosn

in object mode, click on the amature, then in the green man tab in the properties box, go to collections

[jolly frost]

😭 im sorry im trying

[pale pumice]

I really really suggest some blender tutorials

[jolly frost]

i have been but i learn easier one on one with someone

all the tutorials i see are out of date or doent fix my problem

[jolly frost]

they are all visable

and my viewport settings arent messing with it

[jolly frost]

as im learning this program that statement gets more and more true....

i think its the addons everyone uses that i dont have yet

[pale pumice]

I use no add-ons for any of the stuff you're doing here.

[jolly frost]

... then how did you learn to use rigs.... without rigify... which enables rigs...

[pale pumice]

you don't need rigify

[jolly frost]

odd, i needed it in order for any of the bone options to appear

[pale pumice]

I've never heard that, and I've never used rigify.

[jolly frost]

its an offical blender add on

[pale pumice]

oh I'm aware of it, just haven't needed it.

[jolly frost]

anyway, what can i do to fix my issue with the bones

[pale pumice]

I have no idea what the actual issue is.

[odd ruin]

you'd probably be better making an armature from scratch instead of using rigify since it does stupid shit with visibility and collections

[jolly frost]

i cant click on any of the bones in 3d view which would help greatly in the weight paint process

[pale pumice]

No, I mean I have the problem description but I'm not really sure what is going on here, sorry.

[jolly frost]

-# i fixed it

i just selected all the bones and then the piece of body and went to wieght paint mode

[pale pumice]

how do you select bones in object mode? This project is weird.

[jolly frost]

i pressed a in edit mode, switched to object mode while holding shift i selected the body part i wanted

I did it! it works!

[pale pumice]

.. huh.

[jolly frost]

ok how do i paint the hands to work, i got the arm to move with the arm but the hand bones dont move the fingers

[jolly frost]

nvm im getting the hang of it

i hate how the paint just goes throught the object on the other side...

[pale pumice]

there are settings for that

[jolly frost]

which ones? i have normalize on

fixed it, i had project on

oh um i know this is dumb but when/if im finished with this project would anyone be willing to test if the full body works? i dont have a vr headset...

[white sky]

hey can i have some help rq? im getting these errors in the SDK/console, but ONLY when all of the listed bones (head, hands, feet, or upper arms) are specified in the avatar config - if even a single one of them isnt specified the errors disappear (but obviously that breaks the avatars rig because core bones arent there)

despite this the mapping looks fine when all the bones are assigned and errors are in the SDK

[torpid ermine]

It says it isnt specified, can you should the bone hierarchy?

Show*

[rustic cypress]

By the time it's finished and if you still need help, I don't think I'd mind.

[jolly frost]

Thx 😊 I’m taking a break for now as the weight painting is taking ages and blender gives my eyes mini headaches

[pale pumice]

accurate

[dark raven]

how do i rig my avi

[sour palm]

You use software to rig or get someone to that for you... have you created your avi?

I guess jt looks good 😄

[hoary plume]

Hello to anyone who sees this! I have an issue I've been trying to figure out by myself but cant seem to fix the issue.

I have an avatar I'm making that has long arms, but whenever i wear it in Vrchat my arms are bent back and don't work properly.

Any advice i can get to fix this would help a lot :]

[winged ember]

You probably want to post pics of your bones in Unity and blender. Preferably with axis

[hoary plume]

alright, i will when i can :]

[hoary plume]

here is photo's

[pale pumice]

Yeah - this is tricky. If your armature is vastly different from you IRL, you'll have problems.
You could do some complex things like setup a second armature which matches you IRL and drives the avatar's armature via rotation constraints... or you can scale to match closer to you IRL.

[hoary plume]

well it works better when i do arm span instead of height with my full body, but with height my arms are bent back and i cant bend them

im 6'1 irl so not sure what i would do with the human one

im new to this so im sorry i dont understand what you mean to well

[pale pumice]

I mean that if your avatar's proportions differ greatly from your IRL proportions, it will not work very well, just as you are observing.

[hoary plume]

dam alright, so do i keep the whole armature and just add a new one? or should i just try to shorten things

[pale pumice]

I guess that's a judgement call - if you really want the avatar to have weird proportions, then you can try to make it work. If you're ok with rescaling it to fit you the IRL human, that's an option too.

[hoary plume]

alright ill try to figure it out

[pale pumice]

I'd probably rig the mesh as it is, then re-pose it into T-pose and save that.

just guessing it's probably easier to reshape using bones

[outer jackal]

hey y'all I'm having a similar problem to what was just talked about, weird avatar proportions causing weird issues, mainly my two issues are that the hips and feet lift off the ground when looking down and the arms a bit finicky- I'm aware that the hip bone being so big and the back being arched so much forwards is probably a big issue, but all in all I'm not exactly sure how bone proportions and positions affect the tracking in vr- I would do the option suggested about using constraints but I think it won't work as good in this situation considering the hips are involved

I also have this warning which I never know how to interpret in order to fix

[torpid ermine]

you can keep the mesh as-is, just fix the bones so the tracking is happy with it, and just weight paint whatever the mesh area it should affect

i.e. the bone and the mesh doesnt have to match, the bone can even go outside the mesh

[outer jackal]

its mainly the pivot points that matter, I'll see what I can do, but I do still need a bit more information on the bone proportions

[zinc orchid]

I want to make this model MMD compatible inside of VRC, does anyone have suggestions on how to tackle the ball shaped singular "foot"? Ideally the character hops to move

[outer jackal]

I'm not the most well versed in this, especially the MMD part, but you can keep the legs like that, and then you would have to create your own custom locomotion system and animations for hopping

just have the both set of legs not affect the mesh, if you want you can even add your own set of bones for the single wheel part

[zinc orchid]

so some digigrade-esque rigging nonsense?

I'll rewatch Kaide's tutorial on it then

[balmy delta]

You cant change the mmd animations

[zinc orchid]

Yeah I know. Trying to figure out the best way to weight paint with mmd as the intended use

[balmy delta]

It be its own bones cause you require the humanoid rig for it to track at all

[zinc orchid]

Hence the bone constraints used in KaideArt's tutorial potentially having a part to play, but there's no parallel bones that would make sense in this model

[balmy delta]

You wont exactly get a good solution converting 2 legs into 1

[outer jackal]

best idea would be to have a middle set of bones and have them take on half the rotation of both equivalent leg bones to get an approximate middleground rotation

using constraints

[balmy delta]

Which would then immediately have issues

[zinc orchid]

That might work

[balmy delta]

One leg moving forward and that other moving back would just lead it to not rotate at all

[zinc orchid]

It needs double armature in the leg portion anyways

I'll definitely will need to do a lot of trial and error

[outer jackal]

converting 2 legs to one leg has no way of not sacrificing in some way

just mess around with a bunch of concepts and see what looks best

[balmy delta]

The better option is only using 1 leg

[outer jackal]

that option would work, but like my suggestion also causes issues in some cases

for example, any rotations done viewed from the front would end up lopsided

[zinc orchid]

The video I'm sorta basing off on figuring out legs
https://youtu.be/yY_gnDVhyHQ?si=aFCfTNmyGp9Me96r

Sorta being the key wordsl as this still has two legs

[outer jackal]

yup

[balmy delta]

Offsetting the rotation it wouldnt

[outer jackal]

when doing a motion like this?

[balmy delta]

You can disable axis and then use a secondary constraint just for the x

[outer jackal]

true

but that will run into a problem my idea had

[balmy delta]

Your method would just lead to it staying rotated strait down in that case

[outer jackal]

when doing the splits like that the wheel will sink into the ground

[balmy delta]

Surprisingly not with local rotation

The feet are pointed up so locally the singular tail leg would just sit forward like you are sitting

[zinc orchid]

It's not really a wheel as it's an original character/species that's very much not a robot

It moves by jumping on the one "leg", curling and uncurling

[balmy delta]

Shrimp

[zinc orchid]

Ye

[balmy delta]

Or seahorse actually

[zinc orchid]

That is closer in motion yes

[balmy delta]

Id personally convert the tracking to animation via physbone or contact and just use a float parameter to curl it

[zinc orchid]

So sinking won't be the emd of the world

[zinc orchid]

Ooooo

[outer jackal]

you can give the floor a collider in the case of a physbone

[balmy delta]

Problem is that itd do it with everything if you just split it between both legs
Like walking would just have it stay vertical since the legs cancel out mostly

[zinc orchid]

That way I can keep the armature as is for the most part

[balmy delta]

Well physbone being forcefully rotated by the leg so you can get the rotation float value and use it to control an animation

[outer jackal]

I was thinking for any locomotion tracking they could have made custom locomotion animation

[balmy delta]

Why not both

[outer jackal]

true

they would need both either way

[balmy delta]

Indeed

[outer jackal]

the locomotion can handle the up and down and the singular leg's motion, while the curling of the tail can be handled by the physbone

[balmy delta]

Via animation using a float parameter from the physbone specifically

[outer jackal]

yup

[sterile spire]

having this same problem right now: could you please let me know how/if you fixed it

[topaz juniper]

im taking a guess that it has to do with the rig but when i export my avatar from blender into unity it messes up the placements of the mesh

[topaz juniper]

nvm fixed it, just had to apply transforms

[sterile spire]

could somebody possibly help me with rigging a model i made

[brazen island]

mixamo is a good starting point for a normal humanoid

[unborn rampart]

i can help you actually<

[unborn rampart]

whqt do you need fixed?

[zinc orchid]

Please don't randomly friend request me unprovoked, especially if I didn't ask first

Your current behavior is mighty suspicious

[lilac moss]

So masks don't work on the FX layer at all? I have loads of non-humanoid bone animation and it's kinda a pain to not be able to use masks EDIT: nope im just stupid

[sweet citrus]

I have a strange issue,
i created support bones that hold all the weight (hips_weight, etc) so that they can be animated, they are not mapped at all, but unity keeps seeing them as humanoid bones, even though everything is mapped correctly, and that the normal Hip, Spine, etc bones are mapped
everything was working fine before until i enforced tpose, and it broke,
changing the name has it work, but the animation is useless since it relys on the name

does anyone know what to do?
it cant be a parenting issue, this is driving me insane

i can animate other parts like hair with no problem, and never run into this issue

[sterile spire]

[warped latch]

https://tenor.com/view/gay-gay-cop-gay-cops-gay-police-gay-durango-gif-10039269045960132047

[harsh glacier]

Hey guys I need some help I have a custom avi I had made in tripo but I’m just trying to get it ready for vrc and the bones in blender is being difficult can someone help or maybe if anyone has any more knowledge on it yall could?

[zinc orchid]

Do you have screenshots of what you are working with?

[lofty aspen]

is this a good enough skeleton to move onto unity? do you NEED fingers?

[outer jackal]

I recommend having your leg bones be completely in line along the x axis, being bent like this can cause weird rotations, fingers aren't necessary

[lofty aspen]

do you know how I can get them to "snap" to the X axis?

[outer jackal]

if by snapping you mean getting them in line, you can just select all the bones and scale by 0 along the x axis

[lofty aspen]

I may have turned him 2d

[outer jackal]

lol

you need to select the armature, go into edit mode, select the bones you want to be straight and then scale

sorry for not being clearer about it before

[lofty aspen]

Also, I don't think they were that bent

but this is a side profile

[outer jackal]

I also recommend having the knee joint slightly forward, so that they don't accidentally bend backwards

[outer jackal]

just a good rule of thumb I have to make them completely straight on the x axis, has helped me with issues in the past

[lofty aspen]

as in the knee joing connecting the ankle or thigh?

[outer jackal]

the one connecting to the thigh

[lofty aspen]

okay how's this look?

Also, at what point do I optimize the model for android or is it too early to consider that with where I am at?

[outer jackal]

do you have your axis mirror turned off? It looks like your bones aren't symmetrical- the knee looks fine though at that angle

[outer jackal]

I'm not too sure on the best time, but I'm not sure if your model will even need much in terms of optimization for quest

[lofty aspen]

the most I've done in symetry is hit the numpad so no

[outer jackal]

are your symmetric bones named correctly? like do they have _r and _l or just r or l at the end of their names?

[lofty aspen]

they should, I have them named L&R Knee, fibula, ankle, and foot

though to make them symetrical it's control+M then X to fix my issue no?

[outer jackal]

there's a specific way to make symmetrical bones in blender but that works too, you would just have to delete one side's bones while leaving the middle bones

and whenever you move bones in the future have this butterfly's x turned on, it automatically mirrors what you change

[lofty aspen]

since I'm fairly certain I'm good on how the bones are now, does vrchat follow a naming structure when it comes to unity? Source games had a "valvebiped" scheme you needed to follow

[outer jackal]

unity has a humanoid structure that needs to be followed

well specifically for vrchat

my bones aren't exactly named the same but it help to do so

[lofty aspen]

do I need to rename them in blender or is that just for unity where I can link the bones?

[outer jackal]

when you import the fbx file you will need to set the rig to humanoid, it will automatically choose what it thinks are the right bones, but you can edit them if you need to

in unity

[lofty aspen]

okay so I should be done in blender for this guy cool

[outer jackal]

yup

probably

though if you do stuff like I do, you always end up needing to go back into blender to tweak things

luckily its not too much of a pain if you know how to swap the fbx file in unity without needing to redo everything

[lofty aspen]

it shouldn't be too bad, I just want to make this guy be able to be quest compatible and once I can get him right in the game maybe add a facial animation thing

[lofty aspen]

how

why did his body crush in on itself

where are his toe bones lmao

[outer jackal]

if the toe bones didn't actually affect geometry they probably got removed by default

[lofty aspen]

I had them move the feet via automatic weights but I guess that doesn't matter?

[outer jackal]

no clue, you'd have to check the actually weights to see if they were actually doing anything

[lofty aspen]

they moved them right in pose mode

[outer jackal]

if that's the case then I really don't have a clue, might need someone with a bit better unity knowledge than me to answer that, plus I gtg do something rn

good luck, hope you manage to figure it out

[lofty aspen]

okay so it's not the backpack I think it might be because I had everything connected at the central joint

[lofty aspen]

okay tried to split the inter section and got this

[sage meteor]

I finished sculpting some clothes for my avatar, how do i re-rig it?

[odd ruin]

is there a more efficient way to weight skirts
I really don't want to go through all of these and paint vaguely around the bones

[robust crescent]

transfer from legs, make them their own bones attach those to leg no collider needed - angle limits handy , only need 2 bones, 4 and 6 probably better for some skirts

this one using 2 bones for entire skirt , but ive noticed 4 can be better depending on skirt

[tight fox]

what did go wrong here in painting?

[hoary plume]

Hey so got an issue, im trying to do 4 arms on a avi, but the humanoid rig keeps taking the arms in the back instead of the normal ones no matter what i do, any suggestions would be grateful ive been at this for a few hours now ;-;

[odd ruin]

I really appreciate the visual example, thank you

[shut cliff]

i have a really confusing issue 😭 im testing out a rig because i commisioned someone for a 3d model, and i commisioned them so the bones were specifically under the vrchat rules for the bones (img 1, got this from the server) , the bones work ! yay! but whenever i put it into testing on vrchat, the entire model is just flipped?? its not the view (img 2) and whenever she walks, the back of her knees work like the kneecaps, and the back of her arms work like the front of her arms, im really confused because idk what caused this 😭
the 3rd and 4th img is her entire hierarchy

[outer jackal]

1st thing that stands out to me is the fact that you have an upper and lower shoulder, 2nd thing, have you looked at your humanoid rig setup on the fbx in unity?

and then I'm also seeing a thigh, leg, and knee bone

usually there's only 1 shoulder bone and the thigh and leg bone tend to be the same thing and connected to the knee

[outer jackal]

this is generally what a bone structure needs to looks like, names don't rly matter as long as they're parented correctly- I'm not directly sure why it would flip, but your bone structure is just a bit weird- I'm not sure if the commissioner followed instructions correctly, or if they just have a really weird naming convention for bones-

[shut cliff]

they have just different names, i think they should work though : the thing is the right bones are on the left arm (like on the first img i sent) and i dont know if thats the problem? rn im trying to make the hips the actual hips and parenting some stuff. if that doesnt work im gonna probably change some stuff

[outer jackal]

have you checked if the bones labled L are on the avatar's left hand side and the ones labled R are on it's right hand? I know sometimes people mirror stuff like that- that's probably the only thing I could think of that would cause that issue

in general though, I still recommend you check your fbx's humanoid configuration settings in unity

[primal loom]

Hello, will this rig work for VRChat? Or will it break?

I tried removing as many bones as I thought would need removed.

[robust crescent]

cant tell unless its in blender , you about to find out ( bones not straight when viewed from front you get bendy legs ingame , among other things )

[primal loom]

Okay ty! It didn’t work again, I’ll try re-rigging a second time later.

[past seal]

i dont know how to right any ideas

[grand hemlock]

what would be the best phys bone set up for dangles like this i norm wing it with the presets i own but i want something good lol

do i know how to do floor collides no am i gonna learn yes

[untold jackal]

anyone have the assets needed for a working pistol?(basically the pistol rig that is used on most call of duty avatars) I am trying to make an avi that has a working pistol/gun

[astral path]

xD

[ebon arch]

so the only limb that bends when i pose is the hand

here is what happens when i do the other limbs

stiff

[nova shard]

check the weightpaint on the arm's mesh and make sure they're only weighted to the nearest bone and not a random one like the hips or something

[glad temple]

hello! having a bit of trouble. i'm trying to learn to make assets and such and i have no experience kit bashing avatars so this is new to me. on it's own file the tail has the phys bones but after export and importing to my own avi, the bones aren't there. i'm not sure how to make ready import assets so uh.. not sure what to do? i put it into the tail section of my avi's hierchy and it's taking on the physics of the tail i suppose?
in photo 1 it's following my avi's own tail, the 2nd photo is to show there are phys bones on the original tail, the 3rd photo is the show of the lack of those phys bones, and 4 is how it looks on it's own file with those phys bones

[arctic sundial]

Physbones are something that only exists in unity. If you only move the fbx file from project a to b, it'll only contain the mesh and armature but nothing that exists only in unity. For that, you want to create a prefab and export it as a package using the unity export feature to pack it into a .unitypackage file. How to do both can be found on Google easily. Look up "unity how to make a prefab" and "unity how to export unitypackage".

[pale pumice]

Curious why you have 3 phybone components there too. Different settings for different bones?

[glad temple]

ohhh! ok that makes more sense! had no idea the fbx was different! and yeah different settings! little wigglies for the antenna portions left and right and then the main body!

[pale pumice]

you might be able to use curves to do those all in one component, it'll be more efficient.

[glad temple]

ohhh! how would i go about doing that? would love to make it more optimized

[pale pumice]

for each setting you can click the C button, and it'll turn that into a curve, then you can tweak the curve for specific points along the bone chain. Having gizmos on and watching the Scene view while doing this is really useful.

I believe Unity has the docs on how to use the curve editor, it's not a VRChat-specific thing

[glad temple]

ohh! that'll help so much for the arch of the tail! thank you!

[pale pumice]

definitely - For tails also I like to make the base of them way more stiff than the tip. This is how you do that.

[glad temple]

absolutely! that was an issue i absolutely saw for this one too! you're awesome, thank you!

[pale pumice]

yep, so many tails are just weirdly unrealistic - this is often why

[glad temple]

that makes a lot more sense, had no idea about such a function!

[jaunty lark]

i upload a avatar and the foot are going thourth the floor how do i fix that ?

can someone help me

[pale pumice]

is your avatar standing on 0,0,0 and its origin point is also at 0,0,0?

[jaunty lark]

could i video chat and show you ?

[pale pumice]

sorry, I'm doing other things here.

[jaunty lark]

ok

when i do in game the feet are in the ground

[pale pumice]

Yes, you said that

[jaunty lark]

ok

[pale pumice]

does it do this in Unity in play mode, when using a tool such as Gesture Manager or AV3 Emulator?

[jaunty lark]

??

it only do it in game

[pale pumice]

did you test the way I said though?

[jaunty lark]

not yet

[pale pumice]

it should be the closest thing to in-game, and where you can actually inspect what's happening

[jaunty lark]

how ?

[pale pumice]

setup one of those tools according to its instructions and go into play mode, then inspect your avatar

[jaunty lark]

ok

[strange warren]

Think I might have an issue with the rig on my avatar's leg breaking on import. I don't really know what it is, I've messed around with everything on the avatar's export in blender from disabling leaf bones and deactivating apply modifiers, applying all transforms, all of the weight painting is good, making sure all the bones are connected in the armature, but it still comes out spaghetti. Second pic is in Blender, the only issues are in Unity for some reason.

[pale pumice]

bone roll is 0 on all humanoid bones?

(except fingers/toes)

wait, the second pic in blender - that's not the default pose, is it?

you're just demoing that weight painting looks ok, right?

[strange warren]

Yeah that's just a demo for the weight paint, I set it to resting before exporting
-# Sorry for late reply btw, had to go out for a lil bit

Tho checking now the bone roll was the issue, thanks :D

[pale pumice]

oh nice, glad it was that easy

[lament flint]

can someone help me im trying to add a second pair off arms to my avi but the second pair doesnt sync with the main pair any fixes??

[pale pumice]

Explain how you have this setup so far

[still light]

on play, the left leg sticks way out and completely messes up the mesh. my bones are applied correctly, but in the muscles and settings tab the left leg rotates much farther in the backward direction

simply posing it back into place doesnt work, and there are no weight painting or rig issues in blender

[pale pumice]

bone roll is 0 for all humanoid bones?

[still light]

yes

[marsh ibex]

If the second pair isn’t syncing, it’s usually because they’re not weight painted to the same arm bones as the main arms. The extra arms need to be bound to the same upper arm / lower arm / hand bones or they won’t follow the animation. Also make sure they’re under the same armature in Blender.

[pale pumice]

Or are you doing the syncing via rotation constraints?

[limber beacon]

Im kinda new to this but the guy who rigged this model didnt put any for the feet and toes. How do i fix this?

[balmy delta]

in blender

add feet bones to the armature and weight paint

[pale pumice]

weird there are no feet bones - are they actually present but not auto-detected?

[gentle epoch]

i did everything right but for some reason the rig wont be excepted by the SDK

[robust crescent]

fill in the slots , many missing

[gentle epoch]

those are opstional though

[robust crescent]

not in vrchat

fingers / upper chest / toe bones are only thing optional for vrchat

[pale pumice]

it is not optional for vrchat

Also not sure why we're discussing this in two places - I'll stay here.

[gentle epoch]

what if there is not enough bones for that

[pale pumice]

Then you will have to create them in something like Blender.

Your spine requires these bones, in this order:
hips -> spine -> chest -> neck -> head
(they can be named whatever)

Shoulders must be children of the chest bone

[inland delta]

i worry that some bones i added to my legs are potentially being selected during fbt calibration, is there a way to exclude specific bones from being candidates for matching in fbt calibration?

[pale pumice]

it will only care about the humanoid bones, the ones in the rig setup in Unity

[jolly acorn]

k

[wraith whale]

does anyone know how to make an invisible avatar and the only visible thing is a model in their hand? thats a bad explanation but like this (credit to VRLolathon) i have a model but i dont know how rigging this would work.

[robust crescent]

use empty skeleton (no mesh) add something to hand

[limber beacon]

I rigged the model. the thing is that the hands,wings and helmet on the avatar are not connected so when I pose it only the body moves. How do I connect them to the body

[pale pumice]

You need an armature modifier on those mesh objects, and to weight paint

[limber beacon]

I started a new one this time merging them beforehand but now the model does not move at all

[pale pumice]

Same answer still - do you have an armature modifier, and is it pointing at the right armature?

[limber beacon]

this is actually my first time so idk what an armature modifier is

i just followed a video

[pale pumice]

Select a mesh object, look in the wrench tab in the bottom-right properties box.
Docs on it: https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/modeling/modifiers/deform/armature.html

In the modifier, the "Object" slot should contain your armature.

Do this for each mesh object you wish to deform with the movement of the armature

[limber beacon]

do i do this before or after merging?

[pale pumice]

doesn't matter so long as the end result has this

if you have them before they'll just carry it over when merging

[limber beacon]

this the menu right

[pale pumice]

That's the same as the one in the picture on the docs site I linked, right?

[limber beacon]

yep

[pale pumice]

Seems correct then 🙂

[limber beacon]

so what do i need to do to get the other parts to combine?

[pale pumice]

what do you mean "combine"?

[limber beacon]

some parts of the model are seperate and i forgot to merge them before making the rig

[pale pumice]

If you want to join mesh objects, select them while in object mode and ctrl+j

[limber beacon]

already did that

but the rig is still not moving it

[pale pumice]

You still have to deal with weight painting - that armature modifier just sets up the conditions so weighting will affect it

[limber beacon]

is there a video on how to fix this i cant really learn from words

[pale pumice]

probably, but I don't have any links for you

[limber beacon]

how do i fix this

[pale pumice]

doesn't look like a full humanoid rig

look at the pinned diagram for reference

[limber beacon]

do i need to fix this with blender

[pale pumice]

If you need to rework the armature, yes - it's kinda hard to tell what it looks like from that pic though

just doesn't look like enough bones

[limber beacon]

is there a way to make this work?

this is the bones required for this guy

[pale pumice]

Again, I can't see exactly what it looks like, but if you don't have enough bones for VRChat to consider it humanoid, it'll be a generic rig and then you have to do a lot more work yourself, like building a whole locomotion animation controller

it's almost always best to use a humanoid rig

[limber beacon]

btw the model i downloaded included animations

what type of file would that be

[pale pumice]

possibly named .anim?

[limber beacon]

theres only .fbx and .dae

[pale pumice]

maybe the animations are in the .fbx

[limber beacon]

how do i find them tho

[pale pumice]

In Unity, you could check in the inspector for the model file, they might be listed in the animations tab

[ripe stag]

PLEASE HELP!! i have an avatar that has an abnormal rig thats semi humanoid and I need the shoulders (and hips) to not affect the model so the arms (and legs) dont stretch, how would i go about doing this?
in blender, on the shoulders (and hips) ive tried removing the removing vertex group attached to the mesh and not weight painting it, but that didnt do anything, it still simulates being attatched
i dont really no where to go from here, i know its possible to make a rig like this, but
is there a better way to go about making these "ghost bones" per say that are there but dont ACTUALLY affect the mesh??

i wanna be done with this thing already and this is literally the only thing stopping me lolol

[pale pumice]

You must have all the humanoid bones present... but you don't have to actually weight paint any mesh to them.

Of course, rotating a shoulder bone means the arm below it also rotates somewhat, but you could make the size of the shoulder bones pretty small

[ripe stag]

thats what i tried before but it like...bridged the gap anyways?
this is a video i took when i had the bones scaled down

[pale pumice]

I don't know which bones are which in this, nor what it is you're trying to demonstrate

also there's an alert there which says the spine hierarchy is not correct, so you'll probably want to fix that first.

[ripe stag]

sorry let me try to recreate it real quick cause that videos a bit outdated

[pale pumice]

I think it'd be much more ideal to do your rigging in Blender first

[ripe stag]

rigging as in readjust the bones? redo the rig over again? i did the rigging in blender originally :V

[pale pumice]

if you're trying to change bone size then yes, definitely blender for that

and fix the error about spine hierarchy

[ripe stag]

alrighty ill see what i can do 👍

[ripe stag]

alright so i redid the rig and im still having the same issue
so basically whats happening is the chest creates like these makeshift shoulders kind of, and are stretching to where my real shoulder bones are?
i tried showing which bones are which and in this screenshot i took and how its mapped out 🙏

[pale pumice]

Unity's display of what it thinks bones are are not actually bones though

[ripe stag]

what is it then?

[pale pumice]

just how it displays stuff I guess

you might consider the tab in the rig setup that lets you set the range of motion for bones, make the shoulders range be effectively 0 then I believe it won't be moving them based on IK

[ripe stag]

is that the one in the animation rigging tab at the top?

[pale pumice]

it's one of the areas in the rig setup, "muscles and bones" or something? I don't have Unity open at the moment

[ripe stag]

im sorry i dont think i understand, is it this thing? and then im clicking on Chest then Rig 1 shows up, am i supposed to drag it into the Chest heirarchy? then when i click on Rig 1 i change the weight to 0 and nothing changes seemingly when i test the movement in play mode

[pale pumice]

click on the model file. go in the inspector. Rig tab. Configure. One of the tabs there, I think the word "muscles" is in it.

I have no idea what it is you are doing there ^

[ripe stag]

OH oh i see now thank you

i was looking for something that said "rig setup" like you said and i found that thing so i thought thats what you mightve been talking ab lol

[pale pumice]

I figured you did what is commonly called "rig setup" by setting it to humanoid and hitting configure

[ripe stag]

yea i did

i just didnt know the specific terminology

[pale pumice]

I don't know if it's specific, just a term I figured would be clear - guess not, I'll be more clear next time 🙂

easy enough

[ripe stag]

its all good 👍

[ripe stag]

omg yesss this is working!!
thanks so much for taking the time to help me out to begin with <:D

[pale pumice]

oh excellent, I was hoping that would!

[mystic mantle]

hi question, what is avatar rigging?

[pale pumice]

building an armature of bones which you can use to pose it and animate it like a human

VRChat also uses this to make your avatar follow your movements

[vale pilot]

Hey, so my avatar is Minecraft type, and it look way off, how do I fix that? do I move shoulder and make it invisible or is that impossible?

[robust crescent]

if you want to avoid z fighting make arm tiny bit thicker or move the entire arm mesh abit more to side so it wont go inside torso , still going to be wierd when it T posing tho

[vale pilot]

I've made some fix, and I also tried to find weight paint to paint blue on it, but when I click body first then click bone ctrl + P and auto weight paint itself, it just shows like that and there is no weight paint on the object interaction mode

[soft sinew]

So I followed the order you gave me and put my neck as my head but now I’m unsure what to put my head as

I’m not worried about a jaw since the character I mades mouth isnt ment to move

[pale pumice]

don't use the jaw bone unless you use that for speaking, just leave it blank

I'm not sure why you put the neck bone as the head bone?

[soft sinew]

I thought that’s what you said to do

[pale pumice]

I did not

[soft sinew]

Or did I do it in the wrong order

[pale pumice]

I described the bone hierarchy from the root (hips) bone down to the head bone.

[soft sinew]

So the neck down to the hips?

[pale pumice]

if yours does not match (names can vary) then you won't have a humanoid architecture

no

[soft sinew]

How do I see if I have one

[pale pumice]

the hip bone is the root bone, so "down" should be the direction from there down to others, as it shows in blender and unity

have one what

[soft sinew]

Oh wait is that my bones?

[pale pumice]

?

[soft sinew]

A humanoid

[pale pumice]

a collection of bones in a 3D model is an "armature"

"rigging" is the act of setting up such an armature so that the mesh will move with it, "rig" is often used as an equivalent term to armature

[soft sinew]

Ohh

So do I connect my head to head

[pale pumice]

what?

[soft sinew]

Sorry I’m just very confused

[pale pumice]

See the pinned image - the ideal humanoid rig looks like that.

[soft sinew]

I looked at it and i dont understand it

So do I put my head as neck?

[pale pumice]

.... I have no idea where you got that idea. No.

put the head bone in the head bone slot

put the neck bone in the neck bone slot

[soft sinew]

Because the arrows pointing down make me think the head goes to the neck then the neck to the chest and so on

[pale pumice]

etc.

etc.

[soft sinew]

Okay Thats what I did before

Should I change my waist bone name to spine?

[pale pumice]

those arrows indicate a child -> parent relationship - the arrow points to the parent

the bone names are not relevant, what matters is their position

also that diagram has bones from the upper leg to the hip bone, which you don't do in vrchat, it's a little confusing

oh - in fact, the key in that diagram literally explains what the arrow means

[soft sinew]

Yeah the arrows made me think to put the thing below it as above

[pale pumice]

here, I'll put my text arrows the same:
hips <- spine <- chest <- upper chest (optional) <- neck <- head

key: parent <- child

[soft sinew]

I’m kinda back to my first problem i dont have a bone called spine and my friend told me my waist bone is my spine so should I change my waits bone name to spine bone?

This is what my bones in blender look like if it helps

[pale pumice]

Again, the name is not relevant at all. It could be called "foo" or even "head" if it's in the right position

[soft sinew]

Okay

[pale pumice]

show the hierarchy of bones from the root (hips?) down to head.

[soft sinew]

Should I make it bigger?

[pale pumice]

... what is going on there, where is the hip bone?

[soft sinew]

At the bottom of the list

Should I move it up?

[pale pumice]

you don't move bones in unity

[soft sinew]

Okay

[pale pumice]

expand that ^ bone list so we can see where that hip bone is

[soft sinew]

Okay hold on my mouse is being difficult

[pale pumice]

shall I send my cat?

[soft sinew]

Yes

I put my mouse image as my favorite characters item in a game so it’s biger and I can’t tell where my click is

I’m trying to uh close the taps and make the list shorter

[pale pumice]

ok - bring the model into Blender and fix the armature hierarchy

[soft sinew]

Okay

[pale pumice]

the waist bone is connected to the.. hip bone...

etc.

[soft sinew]

So

[pale pumice]

without the bone names a screenshot like this is not really useful

[soft sinew]

Here’s more of a front angle

Okay let me turn names on

[pale pumice]

again, the pinned diagram should show you what it should vaguely look like

showing the names on the diagram does not show the hierarchy so it's really not of much use

[pale pumice]

but also, showing me anything here is a waste of your time, there's no reason to

[soft sinew]

Oh

[pale pumice]

Feel free to show the bone hierarchy in blender if you want, but I've said a few times how it needs to be

[soft sinew]

So I have too many bones for my chest to hips

[pale pumice]

list/show them

[soft sinew]

Right here

So the chest waist which should be spine

[pale pumice]

again, this does not show what I'm asking for

[soft sinew]

I’m not sure what your asking to look at then

[pale pumice]

show the hierarchy, the 3D view does not clearly indicate the parent/child relationships

[soft sinew]

In blender or unity

[pale pumice]

blender

since you're there and that's where it needs to be fixed, if needed

[soft sinew]

How do I get to my hierarchy

[pale pumice]

outliner, upper-right by default

[soft sinew]

I think this is it?

[pale pumice]

that. I see the problem finally

your bone called "waist" is in the hip slot, and "hip" is in the waist slot

[soft sinew]

Ohh

[pale pumice]

rename the two so you can be more sane

[soft sinew]

So waist becomes hip and hip becomes waits

[pale pumice]

that looks right, from what I can see in that image

[soft sinew]

So like this?

[pale pumice]

the parts that I can see, yep, those are the names I would use.

[soft sinew]

Okay thank you

Sorry if I’m frustrating I’m just very challenged mentally

[pale pumice]

to note again though: the names don't really matter other than for your own sanity 🙂

[soft sinew]

So my chest is saying what my spine said now

[pale pumice]

it looks like it's right in blender - did you rename it in blender then re-export ?

[soft sinew]

My friend showed me a quicker way to do that they said just double tap me model here and it opens blender then I can make changes in blender and save it then go back to unity and it does the changes I made in blender onto unity

If I’m explaining it okay

[pale pumice]

quicker than what?

I mean, great, that probably means your OS has an association of .fbx files to blender.

[soft sinew]

I’m not sure they just told me it’s a faster way

[pale pumice]

sure

(I don't use Windows, I don't have that setup, I'll take your word for it)

[soft sinew]

well it works because I decided to change waist name to spine

And it changed it in unity to spine when I saved

I opened more things in my hierarchy thing

[pale pumice]

looks reasonable to me

[soft sinew]

Thats good

Well the chest is saying to transform spine

I’m not sure what it means

[pale pumice]

it says that the chest is not a child of the spine (waist) bone

looks like it is in Blender there.

[soft sinew]

While we’re here I know red means not good and I outdoor have sworn I had more bones

[soft sinew]

Does it being a child means I need to connect them?

[pale pumice]

they don't need to be "connected" as Blender thinks of it (child's head pinned to parent's tail)

[soft sinew]

What could fix the issue of making it be a child to parent

Or parent to child thing

[pale pumice]

it looks right in blender, so my thought is that you aren't exporting it right but that's just a guess

[soft sinew]

Do my bones have to be a certain way

Like thick end to skinny end

[pale pumice]

way?

[soft sinew]

Way

[pale pumice]

yes

[soft sinew]

Uh oh

[pale pumice]

Thick is the head, thin is the tail

parent's tail connects to child's head

[soft sinew]

Well my bones arr bone in the air and head pointing down

[pale pumice]

the diagrams I've seen they look right

[soft sinew]

Okay Thats good

So my chest seems to be okay when my spine is empty but when I out spine in spine my chest freaks out

[oblique furnace]

This photo shows the Chest on the same level as spine, not as a child of spine. In the menu in blender for the Chest bone, under relations, set the parent of the Chest as spine

[still light]

dont worry about the teeth poking out i fixed that already, but gesturemanager and vrchat both seem to be mistaking the arm bones for the shoulder bones. everything is assigned correctly in the bone mapping section and the hierarchy looks fine to me

[pale pumice]

looks fine to me, not sure what is wrong

[still light]

well thanks for lookin at least lol

[undone sequoia]

im trying to learn how to rig and im getting an information overload using google where should i start?

[still light]

okay, the good old delete everything and reimport trick worked. thanks unity

[lavish tusk]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[pale pumice]

can you show the rig in blender? x-ray mode will be good

[lavish tusk]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[pale pumice]

Looks like you have an IK rig there - a lot of those bones you won't need in vrchat.
Also how did I miss that you can nest bone collections? I'm so doing that

anyway, looks reasonable

Make sure the bone roll for all the humanoid bones is 0, make sure unity doesn't give you errors about the rig

[lavish tusk]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[pale pumice]

by "all humanoid" I mean the spine, and limbs down to hands/feet but not including fingers/toes