avatar-rigging

[mental hamlet]

oh that's good news, thank you!

would you have an idea what else could cause the knees being bent like this?

if it's not the bones

[mental hamlet]

Only now did I see it from the side, it's pretty badly bent https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1203294959047020594/1417304630542602250/VRChat_2025-09-16_02-01-40.932_1080x1920.png?ex=68c9ff4c&is=68c8adcc&hm=519aded72b3dc99ac1da7d284e4a0133987fc5884c2c199d7a84b33102eea1b1&

[humble temple]

Is there any professional weight painters who could give me a hand who could help me paint the shoulder and upper arm to move right

[pale pumice]

that's a hard part to paint

[humble temple]

Extremely I'm losing my mind

[cerulean hamlet]

bruh this rigging is driving me nuts

looks fine, in blender, moved a bunch of limbs and rotated and as soon as i load it up into vrchat my arms are sticking out to the right and being weird

[balmy delta]

There is a max amount of bones that can affect the area

[cerulean hamlet]

getting this now

when i try to re parent

[cerulean hamlet]

could this cause the arms to mess up weird? if theres a closed face?

inside the arm?

[arctic sundial]

Yep

But it doesnt mean you cant weight paint the area manually

[cerulean hamlet]

Ok I fixed that and just put the model in without the accesories/clothes and it still did it

[arctic sundial]

dont rely on auto weights

[pale pumice]

auto weighting of any kind, even the excellent robust weight transfer, should be a starting point.

[storm badge]

i think for humanoid models, automatic weighting is usually fine, but it's always good to test out each bone to make sure nothing funky happened

there's plenty of youtube tutorials with great tips

for manually weight painting :D

[pale pumice]

I've never seen automatic weighting be fine, but it sounds great that you have 🙂

[round marten]

hi can you guy help me about the tranfer weight and when i hit by face the hoodie js pose the recently pose i did to my rig and i pose the new one to fit my clothes can you guy tell me what did i do wrong about my recently pose i made

[arctic sundial]

you might have to apply the armature modifier first and then add a new one

also i suggest robust weight transfer to copy weights. blender built in is eh

[round marten]

Ok ty I will try that❤️✨

[oak palm]

is there a way to connect the pipe on the right to the nozzles on the backpack and the weapon so that it moves properly?

[pale pumice]

Looks like you're in Unity - in blender, of course. in unity it depends a lot on how those things were made

[oak palm]

well theyre all rigged im just trying to get a way to attach one end of the hoses bone chain to the backpack and the other end to the weapon
i just dont know how to get the bones in between to move based upon those 2 points

[pale pumice]

oh - are you wanting a physbone chain pinned at both ends? You can't.

[oak palm]

damn

is there any way to get close to that result?

[pale pumice]

not for something like this. For like a necklace you do one physbone chain in the center

[oak palm]

i see
unfortunate

[round marten]

i did what you said...

[pale pumice]

yeah it won't work on everything

not sure why you separated it though

[round marten]

Idk why but it keep giving me this error when I didn't loose part them is there a ways to fix my armature recently pose and body problem?

[pale pumice]

I don't see what's wrong, so don't know what to fix

probably just weight paint it manually

[round marten]

Ok

[round marten]

Ok I did the weight paint still a problem cuz when I weight paint the clothes just stretch up to fit the recent pose not the new one I think I did something wrong with my body pose mesh and armature

[pale pumice]

I don't know what you've been doing here, I was just pointing out that that tool is great but sometimes won't work.

[round marten]

Bruh🥀

[pale pumice]

?

[round marten]

Is fine I can go to the blender discord

See if they can help with my problem

[oak palm]

i realised how annoying this is because technically it could work as you can grab physbones and move them making them anchored to your hand and their start point but you cant have it anchored to 2 different points on an avatar

[vale rover]

well blender is quite good for stuff like this

[summer relic]

whenever i switch over my avatar to android platform i have the issue of "humanoid avatar must have" blah blah blah but whenever its on pc it doesnt have this issue

[cerulean hamlet]

can anyone tell me why might my avatar be fine when i move the bones around and testing in blender, but inside of vrchat they are like floating off to the right?

[weary hollow]

does anyone know how could i fix this weird collapse?

one image is the arm posed (collapsed weirdly) aand the other ones are the topology of the mentioned arm

tried looking at when does the collapsing starts

[pale pumice]

you can always add more topology

[weary hollow]

could be but as you can see in the images for some reason a few vertices get cramped together

[pale pumice]

yep... so... weight paint them such that they don't 🙂

[weary hollow]

on this one its way more visible, from this point is when vertices begin to get cramped together

[arctic sundial]

The bone layout is weirding me out

[pale pumice]

yeah I don't do the square bone display thing

[arctic sundial]

Is that a volume bone in the shoulder?

[weary hollow]

its support bone

[weary hollow]

actually its the best way possible because if i keep weight painting it only makes it look worse

[pale pumice]

if you don't want to change the weight painting I'm not sure what else to tell you

[weary hollow]

i mean i keep pretty much retrying

but its those points that for some reason grab tons of geometry that collapse it

[arctic sundial]

To me it looks like the helper bone is causing it

[pale pumice]

yeah, kinda does

[weary hollow]

i have checked and it doesnt even interact with the affected area

which is the armpit

[arctic sundial]

Then check one vertex' from the armpits weight in edit mode in the n panel

Perhaps an unrelated bone is affecting it by accident

If not, youll see there how much weight as number is affecting it in that list

[weary hollow]

i checked for some unrelated weights and even normalized, still the same

i will have to keep testing since when i try to fix something like smoothing it just makes it worse

idk if this is much helpful but i have found this

well i recorded from the inside how it deforms

[weary hollow]

i think i found what happened

its a topology issue

well i better get to work

[rose lava]

yea ima need help fixing this rig up (this is the og rig from the game)

[robust crescent]

start doing that on all the bones going wrong way, shift + s , unless your shortcut is different

[zealous crag]

There's a really good reference in the pinned messages for a good VRC rig

It's the humanoid one

[robust crescent]

since it has facebones im guessing its from some game and you will have no shape keys at all, you make them

[rose lava]

christ thats alot

[robust crescent]

yup seen rigs like that before

[rose lava]

i havent rigged or done anything with rigs in years its gonna take me awhile lol

[brazen island]

i think theres some option on import to allign most bones automatically

except end ones

[zealous crag]

Does someone know how to upload avatars from Alcom? I don't use Creator Companion and the official guide talks about that so it doesn't help much
I have VCC though, so do I NEED it or can I just do it through Alcom?

[brazen island]

isnt alcom is just a vcc alternative? like, you still need unity and you upload from there the same way. also #avatar-help

[zealous crag]

Ohh shoot wrong channel sorry
I didn't see the name lol

I'll repost it there

[rose lava]

still stumped lmao

[rose lava]

yea i just did that so i gotta figure out the ends stuff

[brazen island]

those just manual. i mean, they dont mean shit, unity doesnt care about direction or length of endbones (or any bones)

for unity bone is just a point with position and rotation

[brazen island]

hm, k, intresting, why 2nd ones are messed up as well

[rose lava]

feet area

[rose lava]

what should i do

well thats weird

every bone works fine execpt ends

should i go ahead onto unity orrrr

should i try to fix it

[celest path]

is that point calculated at the middle of the bone, or the start/end point? That's a question i had for a while

[vale rover]

you have to fix it

[gray jay]

I'd like to import a Roblox avatar (R6) into VRChat, but I've had a lot of issues with the rig itself. I am trying to reference other avatars I know work perfectly, but I'm unsure what purpose the inner-side bones serve and whether or not I'm doing it correctly. If so, then what would these inner bones be labeled as? Inner shoulders? Any help would be kind.

[robust crescent]

merge those chests(?) bones to chest and those wierd hip bone things to hip ? (maybe)

[gray jay]

Is this close to what you're referring to? I removed the lower bones and have them connected to the center most-bottom bone. I also removed the odd chest bones and have the shoulders connected to the highest chest bone.

[robust crescent]

thats how id do it, T pose handy tho (not needed)

[gray jay]

Understood, thanks for the help!

[robust crescent]

might need a fake wrist bone since vrchat wants em , is it a bunch of meshes since the origin is middle of avatar - should be at your feet

[gray jay]

The origin of the armature is now at her feet and I have added "wrist" bones. Did I add them correctly? And if so, are hands needed, too?

[robust crescent]

fingers / eyebones / toes not needed , you do need ankle bones tho

[gray jay]

Would this work for ankle bones?

Or would this cause an issue with how the avatar's legs move?

[pale pumice]

you'd want the whole thing on the floor, not below the floor. But it's not really an ankle bone but more a foot bone

so make it go out in the -Y direction. See the pinned image of the ideal rig.

[gray jay]

The ankles are now on the -Y direction. That makes 16 bones. Would that be enough to have it use the humanoid animator in unity?

[pale pumice]

you need: hips, spine, chest, neck, head, shoulders, upper & lower arms, hand/wrist. Then upper/lower legs and feet/ankles.

I'd add a tail, because tails are cool. Up to you though 🙂

[gray jay]

Got it, I think I'm just missing a couple of things from that list of needs. (Neck, Ankles/Feet and Hand/Wrist) (as I have it now, there's only one bone in place for Ankles/Feet and Hand/Wrist)
I will also consider adding a tail because, yeah, they are quite cool, lol.

[pale pumice]

oh sorry I meant "hand/wrist" as one bone, it's just often named either

same for ankle/foot

[gray jay]

Oooh, that makes more sense.

Also makes it easier for me.

[pale pumice]

I treat it like the foot bone, since "ankle" is really the joint, but there's no real standard for these names

[gray jay]

I see. I must ask, though, when you say "hips", should there be two bones for it or just one? Is that the singular bone I labeled waist at the bottom?

wait never mind, I'm pretty sure it's the one bone i already had

[arctic sundial]

1

[gray jay]

Mhm, thanks.

[gray jay]

The rig seems completed. The only issue is when trying to import it to unity and applying the humanoid animation type. It gives me the error "File 'Avatar' has an invalid Avatar Rig Configuration. Missing or invalid transform: Required human bone 'LeftFoot' not found". However, as seen in the image, "LeftFoot" can be seen in the hierarchy. Is there something I'm doing wrong?

Oh, sorry, that was a non-updated image. This is the proper one.

[storm badge]

it looks like that bone structure should work fine to configure your Humanoid Rig in Unity. you may need to manually assign bones if Unity is having trouble assigning them when you configure the avatar.

[gray jay]

After some trial and error, I was able to assign the bones to the right places and found out that I needed to "Enfore T-Pose" for it to work. It looks like everything is working perfectly now. Thank you, Thulen, Kazin, and MistakeBoi!

[gray jay]

I've updated the rig since then. Do you think this works?

[balmy delta]

the arms will go into the torso

[gray jay]

Yeah, I've noticed that during testing. Should I move the arms more outward?

[balmy delta]

well

the rotation point of a roblox arm is roughly here

it also doesnt need to be in tpose

since you can just enforce it in unity later

[gray jay]

Oh, got it. So how should I go about fixing this? Should I move the arm back to where it was before the T-Pose?

By doing that, I think that would make the shoulder long enough to have it not clip.

[balmy delta]

move back and copy what I did here

[gray jay]

Alright

And I'll do the same for the leg indication you gave

[balmy delta]

if its not slightly forward itll behave weirdly with rotation

[gray jay]

Oh, man, I'm glad that confirms that. I have someone testing it for me and they have a very very odd pivot rotation with the current test.

[gray jay]

I have yet to test it and I know VRChat warnings are typically ignored, but it's worth mentioning that I get a new warning with the new arrangement of bones.

[balmy delta]

thats mostly ignorable

[gray jay]

That's good.

[gray jay]

After some testing, this worked way better than the other rig that I had. Thank you very much, Diven!

[frank rose]

I have a problem with making a Humanoid Avatar.

[pale pumice]

You'll need to provide more detail, of course.

[frank rose]

It says "head hands and feet are not mapped" I did not do weight painting but I don't care about that yet

[pale pumice]

go in the rigging setup ('configure' button on the rig tab in the inspector for the model file) and make sure you have bones in the head, hands, and feet slots.

If you don't have those bones, go make them, VRChat requires them for a humanoid avatar.

[frank rose]

I don't have much skill in blender, just the skills to make a roughly humanoid model and the ability to make it a rig

[strong yarrow]

HELLO 💡 Question: If blender has eye tracking , how should I calculate how much rotation the pupil makes if I cant control it's transformations in unity?

[uncut breach]

are you talking about the legacy SDK2 eye tracking creator with tools like CATS?

[strong yarrow]

Also, should I have made the pupil a seperate from the rest of the mesh?

Yeah, there was info saying that there was no need to imploy a transformation anymore

due to Unity using eye tracking

[uncut breach]

that would be the opposite

we don't use SDK2 eye tracking rigging/methods anymore as we're on SDK3

[strong yarrow]

The opposit>

[uncut breach]

you simply need 1 pair of eye tracking bones and set the rotation in the SDK's avatar descriptor

[strong yarrow]

yeah thats right, I only did the rotation bones

The "rotation states" are a little difficult to do though without keying rotation with where the pupils move

is it meant to be this way?

[robust crescent]

you can use contacts and fake eye rotations , handy for 2d ones since rotating them would not really work

[strong yarrow]

Is this what you mean?

The pupils are the ones rotating, Thats what the eye bone controls as of now

[robust crescent]

yellow contact sender, collide with recivers and tell it to move eye somewhere since it a flat tilesheet

[strong yarrow]

hmmm. Okay! I havent gotten to colliders yet, so hopefully I dont screw this up lol! Thanks!

Still learning this stuuff, and trying not to make mistakes 🫰😃

[pale pumice]

Put the eye bone's head at the exact center of rotation, have it facing vertical with 0 bone roll.

[strong yarrow]

T0 center of the pupil, you mean? like I should lower it, right?

[pale pumice]

I don't know where it is, but I meant at the center point of the rotation. If that's in the middle of the pupil, sure. Usually it's in the middle of the eyeball, if they're round. Adjust accordingly for your own model.

[frank rose]

Kazin Have You Read What I Said?

[pale pumice]

uhh... no?

[urban ether]

What's the best way (less manual work) to merge clothe(s) armatures to the main body armature.
The outfit's bones doesn't have the same names and the locations.

Reply or @ me 👆

[robust crescent]

for me - blender , pose outfit - delete vertex group - transfer weight from a body & merge after - done , some tweaks might be needed to avoid clipping ( pc just uv shift )

few minutes

[urban ether]

But that won't retain physbones.

[pale pumice]

Add a step then: strip the new armature down to just the added bones, then merge it into (ctrl+j) the avatar's armature, parenting the new bones properly.

[tranquil brook]

is this a fine rig for roblox avatars?

[pale pumice]

If you mean for VRChat, that's missing spine bones - see the pinned image in here

[tranquil brook]

ah oops LOL

[pale pumice]

you need one more backbone and a neck bone

[frank rose]

I don't have much skill in blender, just the skills to make a roughly humanoid model and the ability to make it a rig (Had to repost it.)

[tranquil brook]

this better?

[pale pumice]

Yep, that'll work

[tranquil brook]

shweet!

is there anything special i should do for weight painting or?

[pale pumice]

the generic answer is: make it move how you want it to move

[frank rose]

🙁

[pale pumice]

I don't really have any other advice since each model is different

[storm badge]

are you asking something specific here or just showing off your blender skills

i can't see everythign but the rig looks reasonably functional

[frank rose]

Mistakeboi I haven't weight painted it but I don't care about WP yet but I can't upload a Humanoid Avatar, I got stuck in a loop which I solved by unpacking the prefab and then it says that the head, hands, and feet are not mapped and even if I do try to upload it, it would say the build failed due to a validation error.

[nova shard]

the "head, hands, and feet are not mapped" sounds like you dont have the rig setup properly or theres possibly import warnings preventing it from getting setup properly

[pale pumice]

I too was wondering if there was an actual question, but figured they'd ask one if they had one.

Also don't unpack your avatar prefab unless you reallyreallyreally need to. I can't imagine why you would in this case.

[tranquil brook]

weird problem, i have a outline set up in blender, and whenever i move the bones (forgive the bad weight painting, i have it just auto rn) the outline breaks, is there a way to fix this?

[pale pumice]

how is the outline done?

[tranquil brook]

solidify connected to a full black texture

[pale pumice]

how are you planning to make that work in vrchat?

[tranquil brook]

i have no idea im gonna be honest, thats what i was suggested to do by one of my friends

[pale pumice]

ah, well I wouldn't put any effort into that if you'll need to use a different method (like a shader) in vrchat anyway.

[tranquil brook]

ahh, alr

ill have to look up a tut later when i get to that

[pale pumice]

But maybe it's the order of the modifiers?

I can't see what order they're in but if that's done before the armature modifier, I could see it not being affected by the posing

[tranquil brook]

not sure, i just removed them so i cant go back and double check

[tranquil brook]

weird error, whenever i parent with automatic weight painting there is a copy of the model?

i dont know what could be causing this but this is weird as fuck

few more screenshots

[rigid pivot]

OK, here's a basic level question: In Unity, is there a way to copy (CTRL+C) all the values of an XYZ entry and paste them somewhere else? On that thought, it'd be nice to copy the position of, say, a pistol and mirror the orientation/rotation between left and right, but let's stick with copying position (placing a control panel onto a wrist, for example) for now. 😅

[pale pumice]

of course - 3 dots menu at the upper right of the component

[rigid pivot]

checks the three-dots menu and squints

Well. Don't I feel dumb. 🤣

[pale pumice]

it happens

[rigid pivot]

Thank you, you just made my life startlingly easier. 😁 👍

[pale pumice]

yeah I use this quite often

[tranquil brook]

bumping this

[pale pumice]

never seen that before, more info required maybe?

also not sure what the screenshots indicate, having never seen your model

[arctic sundial]

its about the double mesh

it looks like the armature modifier has the display settings inside out

[pale pumice]

that seems weird

[arctic sundial]

example

[tranquil brook]

^ im p sure its this

its kinda hard to see but there is two, this is all rlly odd 😭

[arctic sundial]

Yes, so set your display settings of the modifier

[tranquil brook]

where is that?

[arctic sundial]

modifier display settings are on the modifier

[tranquil brook]

this?

[arctic sundial]

yes....

[tranquil brook]

ah, alr

should i just remove it or? im really slow today, my bad lol

[arctic sundial]

no

[tranquil brook]

ah

[arctic sundial]

click the first two symbols

and see what changes

those two symbols change whether your pose is being displayed in edit mode or not

and whether it shows the ghost mesh of the default pose

[tranquil brook]

ok that seems to have fixed it

maybe?

ok nvm what

it did not 😭

[arctic sundial]

"it didnt work" tells me nothing <.<

[tranquil brook]

mb

p much it didnt look like it changed anything

[arctic sundial]

in this case it looks like you just simply have 2 meshes

[tranquil brook]

huh 😭

[arctic sundial]

put your mouse over one vertex and hit l

[tranquil brook]

i have a save before i added the armature hold on

oh thats weird why did it do that, LOL

thanks for the assistance!

[foggy oxide]

Is there a way to make so when I resize a blendshape it will resize another part using Scale Constraint. If not then tell me how

[pale pumice]

just animate both things in the animation?

[tranquil brook]

is there a way to fix this twisting issue?

[pale pumice]

probably but what is going on here and what caused it? And maybe can you show the same pic but zoomed out some, with the wireframe on also?

[tranquil brook]

whenever i twist the "hand" bone the model has that twist too, seems to be a weight painting issue but im not sure how to fix it

[pale pumice]

I meant add wireframe to the shot, not xray mode - I was looking to see how the mesh deformed

it's a toggle in the viewport overlays

[tranquil brook]

o

[pale pumice]

ahh, yeah that's what I was expecting - you probably need more geometry there

Could make an edge loop around that, or two

[tranquil brook]

alr

[pale pumice]

probably. Check the VRCTraders discord, you'll just get scammers around here.
Link is in #1204490664637890580

[spice willow]

thank you so much Kazin!

[spice willow]

Deleted message so I could stop scammers

yet again, thank you Kazin

[pale pumice]

yeah, it happens

[frank rose]

It's what I had to do in order to fix the parenting loop

[pale pumice]

obviously I don't have your project but I suspect that was solvable in some other way

[runic swift]

hi guys if the avatar has no mesh body in blender then it is for swapping purpose right? But with only the limbs the bottom half of the clothing doesnt seem to be interacting with the legs, is there a simple fix to this or a tutorial on this?

[pale pumice]

weight paint

Probably the clothing isn't weighted to move with the bones.

[topaz idol]

lapwing uses rotation constraints for the clothing so you can either parent the bone that's supposed to have the constraint to the leg bone or add a rotation constraint in blender/unity

[pale pumice]

oh the clothing is rigged on its own?

yeah I'd combine that.

[runic swift]

Okay thanks! I will give it a try

[wary crow]

Hello! I'm new to creating my avatar I'm having trouble trying to attach my eyes to my avatar. By rigging the left and right or should I just join the eyes to the head, and it should work? I'm confused.

[arctic sundial]

Not sure what you mean but usually the eyes are part of the head yes

Also you need eye bones for the automatic looking at other avatars to work

[wary crow]

Nevermind I got it

[brazen island]

@wary crow for propper angles and out of box compatibility eyebones should be perfectly vertical

[wary crow]

Like rotate a little bit

Or Stright

[brazen island]

up

as in up

[wary crow]

I will just show my work

Are you talking about from the side view or front

[brazen island]

any view?

up is up

[wary crow]

This is going to be a pain I have like 203 rigs connected for each hair strands to see anything.

[brazen island]

what it has to do with eyes

[wary crow]

I can get a good angle on it

[brazen island]

ah i see, well learh h/shift+h/alt+h

[pale pumice]

bone collections are your friend

[wary crow]

I can't fine them

They lose

[brazen island]

have some rsndom reference #avatar-rigging message

[wary crow]

This is what see I got to mant to hide

[pale pumice]

yeah I'd put those in a collection then be able to easily hide that

[wary crow]

Oh wait I should of changed it to stick rig

I'm going to have to separate the hair rig with the others in order to see it

Ok I'm back

With the rig like this will this work properly.

They tried of my shenanigans already.

[brazen island]

what part of up/vertical is unclear. other angles may work with extra adjusting in descriptor, as long as theyre still parallel, which cant be seen from that random angle

but dealing with euler angles often ends up to be a mess at some border values

[wary crow]

Yes, captain my captain I will train my understanding.

Plus, my screenshot angle is awkward from my view.

[wary crow]

Oh I see what you mean

This is what you meant when you want the rig pointing up.

Thank you it's working now

[pale pumice]

you want the eye bone's head to be at the exact center of rotation though, if that's it above the eye, it'll rotate up/down funny

[old swallow]

please help me why are they red i don't know what i did wrong
i am reasonably new to avatar making btw please dumb every explanation down lol
if it helps it says "chest(transform)" is not a child of "spine(transform)" "spine"
or something close

[pale pumice]

The bones must be in the correct order: hips -> spine -> chest -> upper chest (if present) -> neck -> head

You seem to have put the armature root into the hips slot - this is incorrect

[old swallow]

i was able to fix it thank you anyway >D

:D*

[pale pumice]

ah good

[old swallow]

but yeah i tried doing some modifications today and i want to know whats happening here like my bones radiusess are okay but they are being elongated for some reason

[pale pumice]

guessing you exported from blender with different scaling settings than were previously used. set "apply scalings" to FBX ALL

[old swallow]

oh! thank you a lot

[urban ether]

Mask multiple vertex groups while using Robust weight transfer?
So it doesn't affect those areas.

[tranquil brook]

minor problem thats bugging me, how should i go about fixing this clipping problem?

[balmy delta]

Bigger cut space

Those 3 loops are smushed together

It needs to take up the whole area thats rotating not just the edge

Think of it like a sphere instead of a tube

[pale pumice]

I'd add more geometry there - basically more edge loops around the joint.

[cedar ferry]

i wonder if anyones gonna port standable to an avatar,

[pale pumice]

I thought people use that all the time?

[brazen island]

i guess he expects that to be app-free

[upbeat zephyr]

Anyone know why the jacket connects to the chest bone in Blender but not Unity?

[balmy delta]

You cant just port it to an avatar

You can try remaking it but you wont be able to copy all of the features of it

Playspace moving is a big issue

[copper halo]

??????

Gogoloco is the closes you gonna get

[south raft]

thats not how that works 😭

[formal galleon]

howdy howdy!!! i have a question!!!

im trying to rig this wolf link for vrchat, but i'm not exactly sure on where to start ;;; it already came with a rig, but ill post two photos : one with the original rig, and one without to show the model
any ideas?

im fairly new to blender, but i would love to learn ;;

[robust crescent]

fake humanoid bones not weighted to anything and a bunch of constraints to the other mesh thats visible , then you can make locomotion based from the humanoid instead of the generic , wich are soo not fun

[formal galleon]

ahhh i see!! thank you!!!

[unkempt nacelle]

Does anyone know what weight paint does

Or how to use it in unity

[random mica]

hey so if i wanna make a four legged model like that how would i

like what animations do I need to make and what do the bones need to be named

if im doiing my own custom rig and animations do i even need to specify any of that

the thing in my pfp

is what i want

and there's no model of him, so i gotta make my own

[brazen island]

bone names dont matter humanoid or not, as long as you dont try to rename them throughout the whole process (easily fixable for humanoid, not so much for generic). making own four-legged animations is quite ambitious tho

[proven shore]

anyone ever made a rig in maya and try to export it to unity?😅

[brazen island]

those are not mandatory

you probly having more problems with shoulders being children of a chest while you have upper chest

dash-circled bones is what unity thinks is optional, solid circles are required. vrc on top of that requires shoulders and neck. and strict hierarchy should be present

[proven shore]

ah, so im guessing im gonna have to redo some of the weight painting on it?

[brazen island]

wha

you have to parent right bones to right bones

unity doesnt care about weightpainting, even if it ends up complete mess it wont complain

[proven shore]

oh i see thank you

[proven shore]

ok i yea i see now, i saw an example of it it works now

[keen flame]

I rearranged the hierarchy of this avatar model using this Avatar Configuration tool to fix some errors, how do I save those changes?

Clicking Apply here doesn't seem to work...

Because even then, when I exit, the changes aren't saved.

[copper halo]

Enforce tpose

[keen flame]

Oh...

And then what?

[copper halo]

They done save when there are errors

[copper halo]

Are all bones green? Then its fixed

[keen flame]

The model looks really weird now. Did I do something wrong?

[keen flame]

Even then it's still not saving...

[keen flame]

Okay it's now working somehow

I don't quite know what happened.

[keen flame]

Okay I think I've actually got the hang of it now.

[tranquil brook]

hi how can i make it Not float off the body cause this is pissing me off

[pale pumice]

make what not float?

[balmy delta]

weight paint it better and give it more vertices Ig

[tranquil brook]

arms

[pale pumice]

are those things arms? zooming in so we can't see detail isn't very helpful, but yes, what Diven said, more geometry.

[tranquil brook]

ill see what i can do

[balmy delta]

ah yes

black circles

very helpful

[balmy delta]

still zoomed in

[pale pumice]

at least now when they say "arms" we have kinda clue what they're referring to

[tranquil brook]

there

[pale pumice]

\o/

[balmy delta]

you have no topology for it to be able to rotate with

so of course its going to just move the whole thing

[tranquil brook]

so should i add another bone to the shoulders

[pale pumice]

you don't need more bones, this is the correct bone layout for vrchat

[balmy delta]

bones are not topology

[tranquil brook]

ohwait

help im stupid 💔

[pale pumice]

is your goal to have the mesh flex? Then you need more faces

i.e. "more topology"

[tranquil brook]

ahh, oops 💔

thanks

ill try that

[balmy delta]

faces arent just infinitely dense curves

[pale pumice]

consider faces to be (mostly) rigid for our purposes here, and you'll figure it out

[balmy delta]

entirely rigid of being a line from point to point

[pale pumice]

right

[balmy delta]

only got 2 points? no curves

[tranquil brook]

i fixed it 🎉

thank you ugys

guys

maybe its slightly jank but if it works it works

i dont care

[spark hearth]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1267726658916581527/1427278448585478244/pac.gif

Making a PAC-MAN Arrangement model

[urban shoal]

Hi everyone, Whats a butt, thigh jiggle you guys reccomend? im struggeling to make it look decent

[hollow apex]

Not sure if my scratch homies can help me out. Not sure why but my armature is refusing to symmetrize. I named everything with .L, not sure if my rotation is correct, and when i hit symmetrize it just duplicates the bones to the same side.

[pale pumice]

it definitely uses the bone names for some of this, but I forget if this thing uses them. I.e. have a .L or .R suffix

[hollow apex]

ok solved it. I'll post here in case anyone else has trouble, someone made a really helpful comment on a youtube tutorial about rigging. ^^

[pale pumice]

that's good advice

[violet lynx]

So I need help with an avatar, the model is using an animation rig for blender so I need help for it to be dumbed down/simplified to work with unity

[pale pumice]

old blender there too

[violet lynx]

would moving to a newer be better?

Im only using the old cause Cats plug

[pale pumice]

you can use modern ones with the right cats plugin, or just not use cats like I do 🙂

[violet lynx]

Okay, but would that help fix the armature/ rigging issue I'm having?

[pale pumice]

nope! What I do here is put all the not-VRChat bones into their own collection, and just select that and delete them before exporting.

I have full IK rigs in a few avatars I work on

[violet lynx]

im not all that good with blender, I just recently learned how to add textures, and I'm trying to turn an animation avatar, over to a vrchat avatar

It has it's own armature, but REFUSES to link with the body

[pale pumice]

where, in blender? it's just a matter of the armature modifier then weight painting

[violet lynx]

Yeah

[violet lynx]

so to sum up weight painting it's supposed to help not make things move?

[pale pumice]

no

to sum it up, it's used to make mesh move with specific bones.

[lilac canyon]

okay, so i imported my avatar into blender but the issue is that the skeleton isn't connected to the avatar, how would i rig it to the avatar

[violet lynx]

Im trying to figure that out too

[pale pumice]

weight painting, but in their case it was multiple armatures.

[violet lynx]

So this is where I start weightpainting?

[pale pumice]

heh probably

[waxen willow]

I’ve got some issues with a model, there so many strange bones that I have no idea what the hell they do, and CATS imported it to the point they don’t really work in gesture emulator, I’ll slide someone a few bucks if they can fix it

[pale pumice]

Looks like a full IK rig

but don't do that here - you'll just get scammers DMing you now.
Head over to the VRC Traders discord to commission people - link in #1204490664637890580

[balmy delta]

thats a blender rig are you even allowed to use this for vrchat whered you get it

[waxen willow]

Creator has no official vrchat version, only this

Says I can modify for personal use so

[balmy delta]

I again ask are you even allowed to use it for vrchat

[waxen willow]

What does that mean?

Like permission from the creator?

[balmy delta]

just because you can download and modify it doesnt mean its allowed to be put in vrchat

creators have their own tou

a lot of which if its not made for vrchat its not allowed to be uploaded to it

[waxen willow]

Don’t make public don’t redistribute

I’m not giving it away, nor making it public use

[charred warren]

I'm about to do the weight painting, and he has no arms besides the bones. Is that gonna be an issue?

and also the rig I guess

[waxen willow]

Hell it even says I could commission someone to animate it for me

relax guy

[pale pumice]

not at all

[balmy delta]

animate as in blender

[waxen willow]

Or maybe it means animate in frankensteinian terms and I could hire a mad scientist to bring it to life

[charred warren]

It's one of my first times actually using Unity. Why does it delete bones and connects to the wrong bones sometimes?

[pale pumice]

it guesses, without mesh on the arm bones it'll guess wrong. Just drag the right bones into the right slots.

[charred warren]

How do I do that, with the Avatar Configuration? or the menu on the right?

[pale pumice]

drag the right bone from the hierarchy on the left into the slot under the humanoid picture on the right

it looks good though?

[charred warren]

The feet

[charred warren]

This is how it's supposed to look

[pale pumice]

unity's visual representation of the bones is different than blender

[charred warren]

Oh, so if its used in Vrchat it'll look normal?

[pale pumice]

go try it and find out

but don't expect the look of the bones to match blender, that's all

[charred warren]

It's not too bad for what it is since the rig is so odd but this is what it looks like

[lean badger]

the body isnt connect to my tracking points?

[pale pumice]

does it move right when you pose it in Blender?

[lean badger]

idk how to do that in blender

[pale pumice]

oh

well you'll need to learn that

[lean badger]

i really only know to do blendshapes

[pale pumice]

because if the answer is no, then you have to rig this properly, weight painting and such

[lean badger]

ugh

@pale pumice it started floating again after putting "hips" into root transform on the meshes in the skinned mesh renderer

[pale pumice]

if it's not rigged right, you're not going to fix it in unity

[lean badger]

thought i should mention it

it is moving pretty good and normal in blender

[lean badger]

^^

[lean badger]

@pale pumice can you help me with this last thing rq

[pale pumice]

I can't hold your hand on this, and please don't ping me when anyone here can answer the question

but go ahead and ask

[lean badger]

how do i fix the couple things that are in the armature folder

[pale pumice]

folder?

there are no folders here.

this is a parent-child relationship situation, the only actual "container" is the collection

[lean badger]

when i imported it into unity the head and ears were in the armature drop down in unity but blender doesnt have anything like that

so have everything under collection instead of the yellow guy armature?

[pale pumice]

you seem to be missing a modifier on the Ear object, possibly that and the others are missing armature modifiers

no - mesh objects on an avatar should be children of the armature object

[lean badger]

okay i thought so

[pale pumice]

I would check over those armature modifiers

[lean badger]

alright thank you

have a goodnight

[outer frost]

which is the best way to rig this model in this fixed pose

[glad temple]

i'm using unity and have remade this model a couple times and haven't seen this one. The left and right hands are deforming so badly and i provided the current hand for the model. I have no idea how to fix it really, been trying to fix it somehow for two days by now 🙁

[jagged swan]

rigify might be good for it:3

[outer frost]

you sure about that?

[jagged swan]

yeah

That's what I usually use in blender

[outer frost]

is it need editing the rig that made by rigify manually?

[jagged swan]

rigify does most of the hard work that's why it's easy and you can also edit it manually

[cobalt urchin]

okay so ive figured out the model and all that, now how do i get these bones of his to make his body work? (hoping on tails and ears to be flowy like most vrc avis lol)

[brazen island]

weight paint

[cobalt urchin]

it uh.. didnt work

[pale pumice]

did you not weight paint the shirt?

Also - you rotated that bone in pose mode, right? Not armature edit mode?

[cobalt urchin]

yeah

[pale pumice]

got an armature modifier on the mesh object?

[cobalt urchin]

no

[pale pumice]

oh well you need that

you can't really even do weight painting properly without

[cobalt urchin]

the only modifier on the model itself is the decimate to try and help with its triangle count

[pale pumice]

you'll want to apply that before you export

but you must have an armature modifier on each mesh object that is to move with the armature.

[cobalt urchin]

its all once object when i merged it all earlier

[pale pumice]

I of course don't know your project, so I'm speaking generally.

[cobalt urchin]

fair

to bring you up to speed: im done with the general model i think, all i need to do now is get it rigged and then figure out how to get it into vrc itself lol

im doing what most yt vids say to do the parent with auto weights but then it just doesnt connect lol

[pale pumice]

I've never found auto weights to be of much value. I just drag the mesh object so it's a child of the armature, add an armature modifier, then go weight paint.

if your body is fully rigged though, you might try the blender plugin robust-weight-transfer - it should get you 3/4 the way there.

you will still have to touch it up

[cobalt urchin]

there's something i didnt see before

[pale pumice]

yeah it tries to guess, but often can't

[cobalt urchin]

how do i go about weight painting then? cus im assuming he's not suppose to be full red lol

[brazen island]

youtube

[pale pumice]

Yep, definitely watch tutorials on this, it's hard to describe in text.

[cobalt urchin]

youtube also tells me the model is suppose to move with the armature- but it doesn't

[pale pumice]

Especially since the end goal is "moves how you want it to"

it doesn't until it's weight painted

[cobalt urchin]

so after fucking about ive still found nothing that works, scaling the model, merge by distance loose parts the works and still turn up with that error message

okay well i found something, that does and doesnt work, his heat diffusion addon worked as in getting the rig to model, but now it fucks up in other ways, shorts dont move, hoodie kinda fucks up when moving the tail around

[nova shard]

are you manually weightpainting it?

[cobalt urchin]

no, but that's because it only shows red, and nothing else

[nova shard]

red = fully weighted blue = no weights, if its full red you'll likely need to erase some of the weightpaint rather then add

[cobalt urchin]

it doesnt show up blue

it shows up black

[nova shard]

black?

can you screencap/screenshot?

[nova shard]

do you have a bone selected in the screenshot?

[cobalt urchin]

no

[nova shard]

try selecting one and see if it changes colour

[pale pumice]

black means those vertices have no weight paint, i.e. they are not a member of the vertex group named for the selected bone.
Full blue means 0 weight, not "no weight"

also do not trust the colors, especially without normalizing

[cobalt urchin]

so how do i make it apart of a vertex group?

[pale pumice]

just painting will add vertices you paint automatically.

Assuming you have set this up right

[cobalt urchin]

tbh probably not

[pale pumice]

i.e. have an armature modifier on the mesh object, then in object mode: select the armature, shift select the mesh object, go into weight paint mode.
Then choose a bone by clicking it with ctrl+shift+rightclick. paint however you like.

move the bone around, see how it moves the mesh.

repeat, repeat

[cobalt urchin]

shift ctrl right click does nothing

[pale pumice]

which blender version?

[cobalt urchin]

whatever the most recent version is on steam

[pale pumice]

I don't have a clue what that is. Look in the title bar or bottom right corner

[cobalt urchin]

4.5.3

[pale pumice]

ok then that's the valid combo for that

[cobalt urchin]

yeah right click does nothing but the lasso, even while holding shift ctrl

[drowsy plover]

Sup everyone

[pale pumice]

I'm curious what mode you are in, since that is not how it works for me.

[cobalt urchin]

if you'd like i can send it to you and you could fiddle with it?

[pale pumice]

not unless we're talking about a commission here

[cobalt urchin]

oooookay so everyone needs everything to be a commission- got it- will not be sending then-

[pale pumice]

I can't speak for anyone but myself, and me doing work for someone else means I'm being paid

[cobalt urchin]

gotcha

[pale pumice]

advice and hints are free 🙂

[cobalt urchin]

yeah no see i dont have the kind of money to commission people for that

[cobalt urchin]

how far does a vc and helping out that way get me?

[pale pumice]

not a thing I do, I'm working on my own stuff right now. The tedium of baking multiple materials into single ones for many many props

[cobalt urchin]

Ima just pretend I know what that means, cus I didnt know anything about blended up until I started this

Admittedly still dont lmao, its why I ask a lot of dumb questions and it sounds like gibberish lol

[pale pumice]

It's when you have many materials in blender (like say, stainless steel, dark grey plastic, cast iron, and a glowing red plastic light) and you want them to be only one, because that's efficient, so you do a thing where you kinda "map" those materials into a single one. In Blender this is "baking".
(it's a kitchen range)

[cobalt urchin]

i see

[restive nova]

guys how do you fix things like the top of a skirt getting stretches when you bed down and clipping when you bend.

[pale pumice]

patience, time, repeatedly poking at it until you get it kinda close to okay.... skirts are hard.

[restive nova]

actually i fixed it with a data transfer idk what you were on about

[pale pumice]

lucky. Very cool.

[robust pumice]

hilarious question, how would one go about rigging a non-humanoid (or specifically a non-pedal rather than bi-pedal) avatar

like a park bench for example.

[nova shard]

make it parented to the armature but not weightpainted to the rig at all

[lunar pawn]

heyy i want my character to not have 5 separate fingers but 4 fingers that are like together and a thumb (like mittens p much). How do i make sure unity doesnt fuck me over with that 😓

Do I just make two bones into the big part of hand ?

[nova shard]

you could keep the full required amount for vrchat to accept it as a rig but only actually weightpaint it to a single finger's set of bones depending on what the wireframe is like

[lunar pawn]

:0

I’m gonna try to find a tutorial

[pale pumice]

you don't need any finger bones at all but if you don't use them all I'd have another avatar as backup in case you want to do something that requires them, such as sacc flight.

[balmy delta]

finger bones arent required at all so you can literally just have it be the middle finger and thumb

[balmy delta]

finger bones arent required for vrchat

[lunar pawn]

Aaaah index finger is not needed ?

[pale pumice]

none are required

[balmy delta]

the entirety of fingers arent required

only the wrist bone is required

[lunar pawn]

ty so much for the help

[slate sapphire]

id reccomend adding the bones but not paint them, as some worlds detect your index promixial (i think, whatever the 3rd bone is) for push buttons

[pale pumice]

definitely!

proximal = close, distal = far, so that's the distal

[dusty nebula]

PAIN

[timid dove]

🫤

i hate rigging

[timid dove]

why are the legs crossed?

[pale pumice]

hard to tell from here, maybe bone roll?

[timid dove]

uhh

[arctic sundial]

you shouldnt have two hip bones

[timid dove]

wait

i dont know actually how to do this

[pale pumice]

See the image of the ideal VRChat armature pinned in this channel for reference.

[arctic sundial]

also, note the ever so slightly bend of elbow and knees

the bend helps vrchat to find which direction is forward

[timid dove]

:/

im bad at this

[pale pumice]

also - bone roll should be 0 for all main humanoid bones. fingers/toes you can deviate if needed

[timid dove]

so what i need to do?

[pale pumice]

what is your goal?

[arctic sundial]

the legs should go straight down

[timid dove]

hips

[arctic sundial]

this looks good how it is

[pale pumice]

and don't zoom so much, it's hard to see what is going on here

[arctic sundial]

there will be a gap between hip bone (center) and leg ones which is fine. dont bridge that gap with extra bones

[timid dove]

how to connect hips with legs?

[pale pumice]

what do you mean connect? They're fine like that

[arctic sundial]

they do not need to be touching

but the upper leg should be parented under the hip. you will find that in the relations section of the bones panel

[timid dove]

and here?

[arctic sundial]

same principle

get rid of the connective bone between shoulder and spine

[pale pumice]

Also the shoulders should be children of that highest chest bone, and you want an actual neck bone there

Spine should go: hips -> spine -> chest -> upper chest (optional) -> neck -> head

with shoulders from upper chest if present, chest if not.

[timid dove]

and here

[arctic sundial]

your hand has 4 hand bones

make it one

[pale pumice]

yeah, you can do stuff with multiple, but there's not really a good reason to

one avatar base I have has multiple hand bones, not sure why they did that.

[timid dove]

wait

what you mean make it one

[arctic sundial]

there are 4 bones going from arm to fingers

it should be upper arm -> lower arm-> hand -> all fings from 1 hand bone

[timid dove]

i can just parent fingers to hand

and delete this 4

resize and bla bla bla

[pale pumice]

no need to resize

well resize what?

[timid dove]

uhh

wait

[pale pumice]

time passes...

[timid dove]

i'm too dumb...

[pale pumice]

nah, just inexperienced

do it a few times and it's easy

[timid dove]

and?

[arctic sundial]

you removed all

you ought to keep 1 hand bone

[pale pumice]

just extrude a new one from the lower arm, and make the proximal finger bones direct children (but not "connected")

[timid dove]

uhhh

and what i need to do this?

[arctic sundial]

what

[timid dove]

direct children but not connected

[arctic sundial]

the bone parenting panel i told you of

assign their parent in the parent field and untick the box above it that says connected

[pale pumice]

"connected" pins the bone's head to its parent's tail

you don't want that in this case

[timid dove]

i dont know

[arctic sundial]

no

in the panel on the right

[timid dove]

where this

[arctic sundial]

there are a bunch of symbols there, including a green bone

[timid dove]

here?

[arctic sundial]

yes

parent is the bones parent

[pale pumice]

That is the properties panel, yes. You can see the parent box and the "connected" checkbox I was referring to

[timid dove]

ohh thank you

[arctic sundial]

do that for the upper legs too as you just skipped that i guess

[timid dove]

parented to hips

i think thats all?

[pale pumice]

now onto weight painting 🙂

[arctic sundial]

no idea, our view of the avi was limited

added neck?

[pale pumice]

checked bone roll?

I usually add rotation limiter constraints to the joints that only move on one axis.

totally not necessary though

[timid dove]

okay

so i need to add Toes?

[arctic sundial]

what about "avatar not in T pose" makes you think adding toes will solve the problem

see if you can enforce t pose in that menu at the bottom where the transforms are shown

[timid dove]

not working

[arctic sundial]

lets see them in blender then

[timid dove]

what you mean?

ohh

[pale pumice]

go in the rig setup and make sure the shoulder bones are in the right slots

sometimes it fails to guess

[timid dove]

i have no shoulder bones actually

[pale pumice]

oh - those are required

[timid dove]

lets try...

[pale pumice]

you had them before, must have deleted too many

[timid dove]

i think i need to save bones sample for future pain

huh?

yes he have no material

im so tired

[vapid kelp]

I need help

with my friend rigging this model, we cant figure it out

[eternal plaza]

A very big ask (I think) I have this model of Frankenstein and my friend says the rigging is bad so I was wondering if anyone could fix the rig or use one of those auto rig websites to rig it

Heres the only picture I have of the model

I have no actual way to rig this thing properly because I don't own a computer

[coral compass]

Hi, I have a very specific problem with my avatar that I have not been able to solve for weeks

On PC everthing is fine and the avatar works perfectly
On Quest, exact same project with some optimisation (copy from PC) -> People see my legs broken in full body tracking. More specifically they see my leg rotated in weird angle (like 180° rotation, broken etc)
Sometimes it works sometime not depending on my position

Anyone has an idea? It sounds like a proportion problem or something related to the skeleton?

[modest granite]

I am going insane, anyone know why this isn't triggering the animation?

[pale pumice]

because that's an AND statement - all conditions must be satisfied

If you want that to be an OR, make multiple transition lines, one for each condition

Also you're using AnyState - uncheck "can transition to self" on all of those transitions or you'll have very weird behavior that takes up a lot of CPU time

[modest granite]

So this one should work sinse I only have 1 condition set for this one?>

[modest granite]

Thank you

[pale pumice]

looks like it should, yes.

[modest granite]

Neutral as been set as my default. Even if I set other emotions as "Set as Default Layer" and they become orange isntead of Neutral, the face still doesn't change. That must mean I messed up with recording the face states right?

[pale pumice]

you're testing in play mode, right?

also you have no transition from AnyState to Neutral, so it'll never happen except on animator start.

[modest granite]

Don't know what that is.

This screenshow would show you the animations I made did at least propperly record the emotions. But for some reason when I preview through the Animation Menu the model teleports halfway into the ground with arms and knee's bend, and when I look directly at the face it dissapears

[modest granite]

Gotya I'll change that straight awayy

[pale pumice]

the play button at the top of unity, where you can test your avatar

"teleports to the ground" - this is "bike pose", the default pose when your animator is active in Unity, it's normal.

[modest granite]

glad to hear that

That did it!

Thank you!

Now I just need to figure out a way to stop the face from dissapearing when I look at it when it's in bike mode

Because I cant actually test the action logic this way

[pale pumice]

use Avatars 3.0 Emulator or GestureManager and test in play mode

[modest granite]

I tried But I got a bunch of error messages for this one. I guess the version was too modern for what I am using? Idk. But sinse you told me to get that plugin, I am guessing there is no fix for the face dissapearing bug?

[pale pumice]

If you're using the beta VRChat SDK, that's currently broken, either don't use Gesture Manager or don't use the beta SDK.

otherwise I have no idea what you mean by face disappearing

[modest granite]

Fudge the recording took my music sorry

[pale pumice]

ok how is the face attached, is it not just part of the body mesh?

that looks like bounding box issues or something, never seen that on a face

[nova shard]

is the model spawing a particle when entering playmode?

[modest granite]

Does this awnser your question? (Sorry this is litteraly my first time ever trying out 3d modeling)

[pale pumice]

yeah I'm not sure why that would be a separate mesh

[somber cliff]

Uhh...guys? I have a model with odd knees (It's an character with satyr legs) and when I turn a little too far to the right or left or crouch down, the legs bend WAY too far like the pictures. Someone suggested adding gogoloco and it...didnt really make the problem disappear. Anything i can do in either Blender or Unity to fix this?

[pale pumice]

you'd need to show the armature

[modest granite]

How could I check that?

[pale pumice]

also do you use FBT?

[somber cliff]

me or them?

[pale pumice]

you

[somber cliff]

no, no fbt

this is pcvr

[pale pumice]

Ok show us your armature.

[somber cliff]

aight give me a sec

[somber cliff]

this a good screenshot? If not ill retake it at different angles

[pale pumice]

do you have this in Unity as a humanoid rig? Those legs aren't going to work right

[somber cliff]

oof yeah

[somber cliff]

Do i set it to Generic or...?

[pale pumice]

if you set it to generic you have to build all of the locomotion animations yourself.
You probably want it to be humanoid, but the legs bones won't work for that as-is. Digitgrade like this is tricky to do.

[somber cliff]

oh lawd, ive never made animations before. Is there no other way?

[pale pumice]

use a humanoid rig

[somber cliff]

Then... what do i do with the legs?😬

[pale pumice]

see the diagram pinned in here for an ideal humanoid rig.

[somber cliff]

Is it the Rig Requirements one?

[pale pumice]

it's the image that says "humanoid rig" in large letters

[somber cliff]

Hmm I dont think I can make it like that without making the model inaccurate? I guess ill have to do animations...?

[pale pumice]

if you want it to actually work as digitgrade legs you'll need to do some complicated stuff with a plantigrade rig that matches a human (i.e. you) and rotation constraints and such to make the digitgrade armature work.
Or just fake it, have the lower legs rigid so they move with the plantigrade rig like most furry avatars are setup.

this is kinda advanced and difficult to get right, if that's your goal

(my Unity contains an avatar which I'm doing exactly this complicated digitgrade setup to right now)

[somber cliff]

That gives me an idea. If I just maneuver the feet bones to be plantigrade and not digitigrade, will it be fixed? 🤔

[pale pumice]

I'm not going to say "fixed" but that's definitely an approach that can work

[somber cliff]

ill check it out and report back in a bit👍

[pale pumice]

make backups!

[somber cliff]

I did!

[somber cliff]

So would something like this create less issues?

[pale pumice]

That does not look like the pinned diagram

[modest granite]

I checked "Render when off screen " for both face and hair meshes and that fixed the face dissapearing when I aproached it

[pale pumice]

oh interesting, okay

[somber cliff]

oh. it has to look exactly like it. Sheeeesh. I guess ill learn how to mess specifically with digitigrade models X(

[pale pumice]

Again, the rig matches you, the human. If you deviate from that, this gets very advanced and you'll have to either use methods to connect the alternate rig to the humanoid one (i.e. rotation constraints and such) or build the entirety of the locomotion system from scratch.

[somber cliff]

rotation constraints sound like the easier/safer route...

[pale pumice]

it's the method I prefer for this

[somber cliff]

Blender constraints. or Unity/VRC constraints? (Is it a blender thing, or a unity thing?)

[pale pumice]

blender constraints don't carry over to unity

[somber cliff]

ahh figures

[pale pumice]

I do actually set them up in Blender but you need to do it in Unity

[somber cliff]

i see, i see. Ill track down a tutorial specifically for digitigrade legs and constraints so I don't bog you down. Ill come back here if I have any further questions that aren't covered!

[pale pumice]

I haven't found one that I like, but I've built my own method based on a few avatars I've seen do it well, and some work from a friend

[somber cliff]

I got a basic question: I uploaded an avatar to build and test and it's floating above the ground.

It's not my VR boundary being messed up, bc no other avatar does this right now when I switch to them. They're DEFINITELY on the ground in both Unity and Blender, with the origin at their feet.

The viewpoint/avatar descriptor is properly placed in the head area.

I exported it with the FBX Units Scale option in Blender, so it seems to be scaled properly.

What could've happened?

I posted it here just in case it was a rig issue

[pale pumice]

please don't ping me directly for new questions that anyone can answer.
My first guess would be origin and un-applied transforms in Blender.

[somber cliff]

hmm

[pale pumice]

also I export with "FBX All", haven't used units scale, probably that's fine though.

[somber cliff]

I did that, didn't change anything. I applied the t-pose in the Rig Configuration, and it fixed it, but my character's head is permanently facing up now cuz it's a hunchback 😭 So I figured it IS something in Rig Configuration, but idk any other way to fix the floating issue without doing that?

[pale pumice]

without seeing what you have I have no idea what is wrong

[somber cliff]

I'll get a picture hold on

[somber cliff]

nvm it fixed somehow 😭 I just reset it in the configuration window and it's suddenly fine AND on the ground ❓❓❓

[somber cliff]

I have a weird head bobble now whenever I move...Someone said it might be because the neck bone is too small..Is there a way to fix it in Unity WITHOUT having to go back to Blender? 😭

[modest granite]

I managed to bind facials to hand gestures. But I can't get lip syncing to work. Does anyone have any insights for me? :3

[pale pumice]

you must have unique blendshapes in all of the viseme slots.

[modest granite]

Ok so all of them need to be filled. 100% required.

How about unique? Do all of them have to be unique?

[pale pumice]

sil must not be used elsewhere but they don't have to be unique, you just might end up with one shape doubling up if used in multiple places, which is definitely not ideal

so it's definitely best if they are

[modest granite]

hmmmmmmmmm

[pale pumice]

also sil is silent, so usually it's a shape key that does nothing at all.

[modest granite]

I guess it's time to download and learn blender and how to make blendshapes

[modest granite]

Oh thank you, I was about to ask that 🙏

[pale pumice]

great reference: https://developers.meta.com/horizon/documentation/unity/audio-ovrlipsync-viseme-reference/

... didn't that used to have all the reference images? huh.

[modest granite]

So this should technically work?

[pale pumice]

make sure you don't use any of those for anything else either, especially the one in sil.

[modest granite]

Anything else, in that, no other Viseme's? Or not even as the base face for my character?>

[modest granite]

So I'd need to remove this hand gesture?

[pale pumice]

anything else

[modest granite]

gotya! Thanks

[pale pumice]

that's an animation, I have no idea what it does, so....

[modest granite]

the animation uses the blendshape "Fcl_ALL_Neutral"

[robust crescent]

vroid converted in unity i see

[modest granite]

ye

Took the easy route

[pale pumice]

Yeah don't use that as sil then.

[modest granite]

No I think I am going to remove fcl all neutral from the gesture animation and just use it as the SIL

[pale pumice]

then it should work

[robust crescent]

blender way you end up with visemes without guessing where Fcl_xxxx goes , its not hard, if you end up animating any of those assigned to a viseme funny things happen

[modest granite]

idk if this necesary but I'm also going to delete the animation that uses the blendshape. It feels like as long as nothing uses the animation it should be fine but I ain't taking no risks

[modest granite]

Ye but this is litteraly my seccond day ever in my life doing 3d stuff

[pale pumice]

oh nice

[modest granite]

So I'll first need download Blender and if for my first model I can get away without using blender just yet

That is fine for me

But I am a perfectionist if nothing else so Blender is very much a new tool I will be learning in my near future

[modest granite]

Thank's for all the help btw Kazin <3

Btw idk if you guys have any insight into this. But I've been updating the version number every time but I don't see a description in game or anything. It'd be kinda usefull to see so I know it updated xD

it works!!!!!

yeeeeeeeee!

But it looks like poo because the blendshapes aren't made. Amme just download blender straight away

[solar raft]

Say your real hand is offset from the ingame hand tracking position, while the controller is accurate. How does one edit the hand position in relation to the controller?

Im assuming this is something along the lines of muscle settings/rig import settings but Im just not sure what the right search terms are.

This is one of those critical things to know how to fix in order to be comfortable in an avatar (like limb proportions) that I really feel more people ought to know how to do, especially avatar base creators.

[jagged swan]

I think you fix hand offset by adjusting the hand bone’s position/rotation relative to the controller in Unity usually done by editing the avatar’s rig or the hand anchor offsets.

[solar raft]

how can I find the hand anchor?

[pure spear]

Hey all, I'm trying to convert a bird avatar so that it plays in vrchat using gogoloco, but you need a humanoid rig for that to work, and I'm not sure how I would go about fixing it so that it's walk and animations would still look bird-like. Any suggestions is appreciated.

[hasty saddle]

I can recommend someone that can help you with that.

[pure spear]

all ears 👂

[pale pumice]

careful of scammers, this is a pretty clear sign of one

Depending on how different from humanoid your bird armature is, you may have to basically make an entire humanoid avatar for VRChat's IK to drive, and use rotation constraints to have it run the bird one

[pure spear]

its the bird from zenless zone zero, I'm just not sure how I would rig that in blender so everything would work

[pale pumice]

Sorry, no idea what that is

[robust crescent]

id use 'empty' skeleton + constraints on bird (merge in blender so it has a mesh to 'talk' to in animator if you ever want to animate something

[pale pumice]

yep

[timid dove]

its possible to make vrchat avatar from blockbench fbx model?

[pale pumice]

Can you rig and weight paint with that?

[timid dove]

i can but i dont need weight bcs parts works like bones

more work and grouping all this sh...

[pale pumice]

You always need weight to attach mesh parts to bones

[timid dove]

i have little progress

its actually can work without bones in blockbench

just more time and work

[balmy delta]

the individual objects are the bones

[timid dove]

yes

[timid dove]

How to create blendshapes?

[pale pumice]

edit your model in a 3D model editor like Blender

[arctic python]

Any advice on tweaking muscle settings for the updated hands IK? I just tested my work in VRC and it's my first time trying to do non-legacy fingers. It looks to me like the hand IK either partially or completely ignores my muscle settings...

Turning on legacy fingers verifies that the muscle settings were applied correctly though

[modest granite]

What happened to the VRM Spring Bone (Script) Component? All the Springbone tutorials I can find mention it but it does not show up as a usable Componany when I try to add it to secondary

Just does not show up

[robust crescent]

vrchat doesnt use that at all

[modest granite]

o

I've been lied to then

[robust crescent]

you can convert physbone to vrm ones with xroid exporter , thats about it i know (not usable in vrchat but if you ever need a vrm from a fbx in unity its very easy)

[modest granite]

hmm

Surely there as to be another method? I am finding so many remnents of Spring Bone scripts in VRM 1.0

Amme keep looking

Their website seems to communicate something, i am SO CLOSE to understanding it but I cannot frikking read japanese

https://vrm.dev/en/univrm/springbone/univrm_secondary Yeah no everthing points toward VRM Spring Bone (Script) Still existing and functioning, it just does not for me

[robust crescent]

converting vrm in unity is 'meh' , do it in blender and then set it up in unity, you wont have a terrible performance avatar

[modest granite]

converting?

[modest granite]

Welp maybe when I wake up tomorrow someone as some insight for me

[pale pumice]

That is your advice: convert model in blender (import .vrm, export as .fbx), setup avatar in Unity in the standard methods.

[heady fable]

I'm trying to weight paint some fingers and I can only seem to get it to either 1) completely break and not work at all 2) not have the fingers move nearly enough. The weight painting is set to max on the right bones and isn't shared by other ones, any ideas?

An example of it not moving enough

[spiral bay]

Can anyone help me rig this model?

[pale pumice]

exactly what help do you need?

[pale pumice]

if it doesn't move enough, there's some weight to another bone. I suggest painting with auto-normalization on. Without normalizing, what you see as red might not actually be full weight.

[spiral bay]

I'm just tryna rig it cause I'm horrible at rigging

[heady fable]

There's no weight on any other bone, I've cycled through all of them

[pale pumice]

it doesn't make sense that it wouldn't move 100% with that bone then.

[heady fable]

That's what I'm sayin

This is how hard it's weight painted there

[pale pumice]

again, meaningless unless you've normalized weights

[heady fable]

Normalizing it breaks it even more lmao

[pale pumice]

breaks it how? You re-paint after that

[heady fable]

Because it erases everything I've painted and reassigns everything to random spots

[pale pumice]

because you have weight on random spots now

[heady fable]

Like the bend goes from what I showed before to only moving the 2 vertices directly under the joint

[pale pumice]

Yep, that isn't surprising at all, and it's the cause of your not-moving thing

[heady fable]

?

[pale pumice]

If you aren't looking at normalized weights then the color is meaningless

[heady fable]

What does "normalizing" actually do?

[pale pumice]

averages weights so the sum total is 1

[heady fable]

Ah so how it works natively with Maya

[pale pumice]

weight painting is relative. if you don't have auto-normalization on you can paint two sections full red but they'll actually be a value of .5.

[balmy delta]

Worse than .5 cause they will fight for custody

Causing shrinking n stuff

[pale pumice]

if both are painted to 1 then it'll split them evently

[heady fable]

See here's the weird thing, I get that cause I had to do a bit with Maya years ago and was wondering why it wasn't a thing here, but I actually painted manually to avoid things sharing real estate and it made it WORSE

[pale pumice]

but yeah, of course there's gradients involved.

and yeah, Maya defaults to this on. I always enable auto-normalization.

[balmy delta]

There is an autonormalize checkbox

[heady fable]

Like I got more movement by making it and the other joints leading up to it in the finger share custody

as opposed to just that one joint

I know it makes absolutely no sense, but that's why I'm here lmao

[heady fable]

Like this is how much it moves now AFTER normalization and being weight painted the same way as I showed before

[heady fable]

And it randomly fixed itself..... bruh

[modest granite]

Not an option. Used VRoid to make it, which as an incompatible "color"/ "Mesh" / "texture"/ "paint"/ "material" (idk what to call it) for fbx so the model exports completely white

[pale pumice]

100% an option

you need to create and apply materials in Unity, it doesn't matter that they're white

if you don't have actual texture files you can export them from the .vrm in blender

[balmy delta]

unity materials are entirely independent

[signal grotto]

is there a way that when i use aim constraints on this exo skeleton to not have them spaz out and seperate like the second photo?

[rustic cypress]

I'm weightpainting a backpack and a seperate part of it continues to move with no weightpaint, even though I Removed all weightpaint multiple times on its vertex group before beginning and the exact same spot moves no matter what, on both sides of the body

Any tips?

[pale pumice]

FYI you don't need to switch to pose mode, just rotate the bone in weight paint mode, that's how you can see how much painting you need.
here though you definitely have some weight in that spot. Remember that you might not be able to see it by color alone, and the colors are misleading unless normalized.

oh - also remember that the weight might be on a child bone of the one you're moving around

[rustic cypress]

Omg. It was randomly put onto a finger bone from automatic weights. Thanks!

[pale pumice]

yup 🙂

[modest granite]

I tried it before and I could not figure out how to propperly export the texture files and then reattach them to the model in Unity. Additionally, to my understanding VRM does a lot of heavy lefting when it comes to avatar creation and information retention. As someone more intimately familiar with this, is your judgement that the amount of labour I need to put into learning fbx files and texture and material extraction from vrm files to apply them again in unity is worth the ability to add physics to bones such as hair, clothes or breasts - rather than searching and finguring out physbones?

[robust crescent]

learn the vrm > blender > unity way , you will have a way more optimized model - less materials and 1 - 2 textures (ish) after atlas/baking instead of 10+ , making masks much easier when you learn that and adding things in blender isnt hard once you tried it a few times

vrms dont know what a physbone angle limits are and just rely on colliders wich is terrible for vr and its super clipping mode anyway

[modest granite]

My current VRM is a VRM (VRoid) > Blender > Unity Model. Also I figured out how to add physics so for now I am good like this

[modest granite]

Also you can set angle limits with phys bones

[pale pumice]

a .vrm gets you nothing for vrchat except a rigged model

[timid dove]

when i trying atach model to bones i see error

Bone Heat Weighting: failed to find solution for one or more bones

[timid dove]

ohh

now i understand what wrong

i hate this

DAMN

[pale pumice]

auto weighting rarely works well

[timid dove]

is the way only to attach but not autoweight?

its buggy actually

i hate this

[pale pumice]

It depends on what you're doing. Often I'll use Robust Weight Transfer to get me started, then do some manual touching up or sometimes outright repainting.
If it's rigid parts I'll just set the weight values uniformly

[timid dove]

im really tired of this so goodnight

[tired agate]

Say, I have a bit of an issue. Because of the fact I have no real idea what I'm doing with Blender, any chance someone here can take a look at the model a friend passed off to me to try and reverse engineer it to make it compatible as a VRC avatar?

Rigging mostly, hence why I brought it here, but I do understand it would also fall into Optimizing if there are any issues worth fixing.

[pale pumice]

wow, that's going to be pretty close to starting from scratch. You'd need to convert that line art object into a mesh object, then retopologize it to be reasonable as an avatar.. then rig it and weight paint...

[tired agate]

How do I... are there tutorials to help me know where to begin doing that?

[arctic sundial]

is that a question

[pale pumice]

sure, start with a basic "learn blender" one

[timid dove]

finally, my pain is over

now i can create blend shapes

[timid dove]

ways to make flat 2d eyes rig

?

[robust crescent]

id use a tilesheet then a fake eyebone and contacts

other ways thats bit easier , my first attempt at one

[tired agate]

My friend attempted something or other to the feedback you gave, and I wonder if you wanna take a look at this version:

[pale pumice]

Neato! Going over someone else's model is not really a thing I do for free though, but if it works, then hey, that's success.

[tired agate]

I mean like, you gave it a go-around the first time, no?

[pale pumice]

no? I glanced at your images, that's all.

[tired agate]

Ah

Well, if you wish to discuss payments in regards to overlooking and maybe optimizing/rigging the model, I'm game.

[plush badger]

Does anyone know why this is happening? Tried tonnes of different rolls, moving the legsfurther in and further out, the knees in and out but nothing helps. It all gets worse.... PLEASE help I've been at this for hours today but days before.

Its dificult to explain but the pictures show it better. Its like the upper legs bend outwards when forcing T-Pose? So it widens the legs out and shrinks the hips down

[pale pumice]

explain what "this" you are talking about here?

[plush badger]

Its dificult to explain but the pictures show it better. Its like the upper legs bend outwards when forcing T-Pose? So it widens the legs out and shrinks the hips down

[pale pumice]

right pictures show it but without some reference we don't know what to look at in the pictures.
So thanks, that helps.

my first guess is bone roll is not 0 for all of those bones

[balmy delta]

You dont actually have to force tpose

[plush badger]

Truebut without forcing it, it says its out of T-Pose

[balmy delta]

And?

[plush badger]

Just double checked this on the legs and feet, hips, chest and spine but all are 0

[pale pumice]

ah good