#vrchat-general-2

1 messages · Page 1168 of 1

shut zodiac
dark harness
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Yes!

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I'm not sure if I can talk about them, but I spent a couple of extra weeks making our [REDACTED] system support [REDACTED] and then when we decided that the launch date was "good lord, some time before we run out of money, jeez" we decided that we probably won't be using [REDACTED] for the near future

shut zodiac
dark harness
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To be honest, I didn't really think [REDACTED] was going to ship in the first place, but it'd be a real pain in the ass to design a subscription system without [REDACTED] and have to add it in later

cyan cobalt
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will there ever be a mac port of vrchat?

civic lagoon
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@dark harness can you explain why you guys designed a profile picture system behind a paywall? what is your opinion on this.

dark harness
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One of the biggest reason we didn't start with creator-based monetization was simply that it would have taken longer and our prospective partners on that were dragging their feet (you try to find a payment partner that offers seamless payout for a company like us- they're all terrified about people laundering money by buying and selling thousands of meaningless digital assets). I think if you'd have asked me a year ago what we were shipping by christmas of 2020 I'd have given a completely different answer.

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A profile picture system seems like something that every company should have by default, but in a large sense we already have a profile picture system because your avatar is your profile pic. Lots of our users have found clever ways to put an profile image in to the avatar system - so the idea of a user icon is, more like it's an infinitely customizable badge.

clever sandal
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Some days ago I merged my VR-Char account with Steam and it worked well and all my avatars where still there, but now I want to play VR-Chat trough Steam where I once manage to make yet another account, it has just the standard avatars, but can I merge even that with my VR-Chat account if I in the future want to start from Steam and without losing friends and avatars?

civic lagoon
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I see your point, i truly get that but post people will look at it as one.

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it large on a name plate. its simple to make the connection.

dark harness
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I wasn't entirely convinced about User Icons at first, but once I saw a cloud of users co-brand their user icons I was like "huh, I'd pay for that"

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"what a cool idea"

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once again, saved by clever users

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that should be our official tagline

vocal shard
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I think the icon has more use as like, for clan badges and families

dark harness
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We talked for a long time about clan badges and then we build one by accident 👍

civic lagoon
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exactly and its behind paying for it.

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i kinda view this as core game feature imo.

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but people seem to disagree

dark harness
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😄 The thing about monetization is that if you make your features too important to the game, everyone will complain that you're soft-paywalling them out of the game entirely (and we really don't want that) - and if you make your features completely unimportant, people will complain that there's no reason to pay for them

abstract vault
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@dark harness You do realize people aren't pissed that you monetized, but that you monetized with features that you banned people for right?

dark harness
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I feel like VRChat+ strikes a careful, careful balance between being just important enough to feel like a real thing, just irrelevant enough that it doesn't matter if you don't have it, and just expensive enough that if only some of you buy it we'll still be able to keep the lights on

vocal shard
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to little features for the price thats displayed currently

abstract vault
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If you wanted a premium service that's fine, but putting QOL features that got peeps in trouble for adding them in themselves was a bad move. Even you gotta admit that.

clever sandal
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I will try to get into beta if that is possible for Oculus Quest on the Oculus platform, I tried to follow the instructions but the instructions was not matching what I saw in the Info part. But when I get the badge I will make an Icon explainint that I use a Link Cable for Oculus and therefore cant use voice.

obsidian herald
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Even before VRChat Plus was announced, some people, such as myself, are willing to pay to keep VRChat going!

dark harness
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I do not gotta admit that. Nobody got banned for extended faves, and there's a very good reason why we believe that VRChat should retain control of the nameplates - it's a safety thing, it's an impersonation thing, it's a trust thing, it's a moderation thing - so we made sure to telegraph that we were gonna get mean about that before we started cracking heads.

abstract vault
clever sandal
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I had tested VRC+ even I would not get anything other then a small sticker, I will do it to support the development for I think VRC chat been very fun the short time I use it.

dark harness
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What are you talking about, then?

abstract vault
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Avatar favorites is one of the biggest things.

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Nameplates are for all purposes useless outside of like, a few things, but avatar favorites was one of the biggest requested things for VRC, and people risk bans to get them in themselves.

clever sandal
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100 favorites, that is a ton of avatars. I think I have 8 in my list now and for me that been all I needed 🙂

dark harness
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I can't speak on behalf of moderation, but I can say that I don't believe that anybody has been moderated at for JUST extended favorites lists. For one thing, it's super hard for us to detect. Modified clients almost always get in trouble for a plethora of other reasons that I'm probably not allowed to get in to.

vocal shard
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and such people will always keep using modded clients.

dark harness
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Nobody on our team has ever said anything like "oh no, they added a simple QOL feature, get 'em"

abstract vault
vocal shard
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It's the same as, people who got arrested for having a certain substance.... Once that became legal, those who were arrested for the crime still face charges since they broke the law at the time.

It's about following the rules

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as i said and keep saying.. i dont mind paying.. but 9,99 is to much for what is being offered

cyan cobalt
clever sandal
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I did hear two talking about a modded client they had and how they could copy avatars even the user had sat to not allow that, is that possible, can they copy a full avatar with all animations and so on?

amber juniper
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I just don't like it that there are so many features that mods have, which should be actually a core feature, like individual volume control...

abstract vault
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I'm very against that sort of thing.

amber juniper
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I just hope those quality of life features will get added in the future...

abstract vault
clever sandal
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I do not want to know, but I had plans to upload some avatars I made, but if that is possible and they can copy even animations, then I will make a more restricted version of the avatars.

civic lagoon
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if you want to make your players happy officially develop the quality of life features they have made in mods, but not behind a paywall.

sharp saddle
civic lagoon
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patreon is thing.

vocal shard
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didnt they just recently had a nice deal involving alot of money?

sharp saddle
civic lagoon
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with tiers

dark harness
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The pay-what-you-want model at Patreon is appealing to users - but under the hood it's tiered benefits. And they take a big cut.

amber juniper
amber juniper
civic lagoon
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also to mention i would be more inclined to support something if there was actual transparency

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and not content gating the players

vocal shard
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i wouldnt consider this... content tho

amber juniper
sharp saddle
wicked zodiac
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VRChats security on the client side is at best sketchy , whit local data , that you can unpack and extract avatar assets and such, stability issues on cloud hosting issues , and unsecure network protocol usage.

abstract vault
vocal shard
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again, for me the only issue i have is the pricing of + asking to much for so little in return.

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not if its local @wicked zodiac

civic lagoon
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do you know what a feature is or not? adding a photo on your tag is one. behind a paywall that i think is neat and should be free to use for anybody. same as sending a photo in a dm. or whatever that plan is. this is form of content gating. by putting a paywal to obtain this.

vocal shard
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@civic lagoon agreed

abstract vault
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I think people would be LESS pissed off if it wasn't a subscription, and just a one time payment.

vocal shard
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yes i wish it was one time

civic lagoon
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i would be less pissed if it was a one time thing as well because i don't like subs, its why i don't play games with them.

abstract vault
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But as probably been said sooooo many times: No one wants to pay for a broken product.

sharp saddle
dark harness
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Yeah. We could have near-perfect security and perfect performance in a heartbeat - we've got builds that do just that - but the catch is we have to disallow user-created assets and user-created worlds and user-scripting-in-worlds, and every time I suggest building "vrchat-but-it's just-the-banana-avatar-in-the-old-hub" I get shouted at

hollow ingot
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Patreon is something I can't use... being restricted to something like Visa giftcards

potent fern
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the banana avatar is lit!

vocal shard
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@dark harness so when are we getting a rainbow covered banana in the hub?

potent fern
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(so is the 🌭 avatar )

vocal shard
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@dark harness Why can't these things just be like pay $1 dollar per avatar slot with a max of 100 that would prolly be better system

dark harness
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so instead we have to achieve passable performance with an incredibly open-ended user-system, and in order to prevent people from crashing the game we need to solve the literal Halting Problem

clever sandal
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For folk that are against VRC+, what would the alternative be? A program like VRC can not be free, the developers need to get money to keep all running, adverts?

vocal shard
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adverts inbetween loading screens could work XD

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@vocal shard Agreed

sharp saddle
supple viper
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Hell no adverts are annoying as it is

vocal shard
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but i bet they alrdy thought of that so

amber juniper
dark harness
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🙂 So, the ad model would waaaaay encourage modded clients - someone would make a VRChat-Adblock-Plus and we'd be rekt

civic lagoon
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a donation system with no perks and only cosmetic things, like the proposed support tag.

clever sandal
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And then let folk pay to get rid of the adverts, for to many will use add blockers 😄

dark harness
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plus, in order to be profitable selling ads, you need to do an absolutely terrifying level of user surveillance

civic lagoon
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ive seen a number of people say they dont care about the perks.

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they just want to support

amber juniper
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I rather pay more, than have adds at all

vocal shard
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honestly considering.... about more than half of my active friends use modded clients for extra avas and other quality of life things i doubt adding adds in is gonna change anything

cyan cobalt
dark harness
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like, you can command ten times the price for a targeted ad, and in order to target the ad we need to know that you're a 38-year-old-aleut-in-Spain-who-once-mentioned-that-they-might-like-to-buy-a-camera

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Spanish camera companies will pay incredibly good bucks for that data and placement ^

vocal shard
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@dark harness make an anti cheat. Would solve the client problem

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there u go go get em tiger! get those adverts!

amber juniper
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oh, wait... there probably will be ONE ad in the loading screens... for VRC+ :P

abstract vault
tranquil spear
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@everyone hi

vocal shard
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@abstract vault Good that means then the community needs fixing

civic lagoon
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i think they just need to make features modded clients have.

wicked zodiac
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@dark harness well i wasn't talking about in world security but the external out side of the game. and i know what you meaning, "give people freedom and they abuse them , that's every government's problem right? , but least try to make the cashed data on client side more secure so it be harder to disassemble and copy and use,

civic lagoon
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people want fly, and whatever give them it so they dont look elseware to get.

vocal shard
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we prolly neeed an anti client system

clever sandal
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It would be great if VRC could identify bad clients and quicker block accounts using them, and then remove avatars that been "unlocked" and copied in a bad way.

vocal shard
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anti client system...that stuff is never gonna work

abstract vault
dark harness
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But in order to run the avatar, we have to take whatever super-secure cryptographic system we're using, decrypt it, and put the thing-that'll-run-on-your-graphics-card in the cache, right?

amber juniper
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I mean... one of the latest updates actually added some crypto libraries if I'm not mistaken... so it could be that they are working on it

vocal shard
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@abstract vault lol Ik ive played since 2018 trust me ik

obsidian herald
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Someone might do flying with Udon one day!

dark harness
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No company has solved content ripping

neon galleon
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Hello

vocal shard
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@dark harness Content is still being ripped. Dunno what ur talking bout

abstract vault
amber juniper
abstract vault
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Oh I know he's right, it's just funny.

wicked zodiac
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@dark harness and that extends the logon time delay and makes files bigger and loading times longer yes, everything is an balance act of security and performance.

dark harness
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I know - in order for content not to be rippable, we'd need to solve a problem that nobody else in the industry has been able to solve. If we could do THAT, we'd stop making VRChat and start selling that exact thing and nothing else and we would be FABULOUSLY RICH

vocal shard
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@dark harness Dont make the links public put a auth behind them

amber juniper
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well, I guess System is a backend engineer/SysAdmin/something like that. And those guys always have a great sense of humor ;)

wicked zodiac
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@dark harness and then when ritch you can give out free shirts on registering ?

vocal shard
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is it possible to put avatars and worlds behind a private link so people can not just take the link and get the files that easy? @dark harness

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it looks like there is no system in place to hide these assets

amber juniper
vocal shard
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avatars being ripped are not even close to being vrchats fault by the way, every unity game /bundle/asset is rippable

dark harness
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🙂 I will fully admit this: because content ripping is, like, mathematically impossible to stop, sometimes I've discouraged us from doing common-sense stuff that would discourage the very, very incompetent

vocal shard
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@dark harness Get rid of the public links will solve 99% of the problem

amber juniper
vocal shard
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like why is parts of the api public that aint right vrcThinking

dark harness
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Like, a lot of proposals from our security team to have the file system issue temporary download tickets

vocal shard
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if they got rid of asset links for the model how would your client know what to load? vrcThinking

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@vocal shard Give the authenticator to the client, but not to the user

dark yarrow
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Honestly I'm pretty excited for VRC+! Super excited to support this game.

dark harness
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We'd have to have the system temporarily issue the ticket if you were in the same room as someone wearing the avatar

vocal shard
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then people will reverse engineer it

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and then they can rip it again

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ive heard there is a mod that will rip avatars, recompile and upload in SECONDS! meaning this content ripping "solution" no its not a solution it has NOT been solved

dark harness
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Yeah - and that's been the case any time we've added a new security feature of that nature. It kicks content rips in the pants for 11 days, until the first person releases a tool to bypass it, and we're back to square one

amber juniper
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just out of curiosity... how much data (in TB, I guess) is stored? all the Avatars and Worlds included?

abstract vault
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Why not just use an encryption for private avatars that the original creator has the key for.

vocal shard
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^^^

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again

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what would other peoples clients do when trying to load said avatar on their client

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it wouldn't load

dark harness
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Well, that's good so long as only the original creator wants to see the avatar, but if they want to share that avatar they have to distribute the public key, and once someone has the public key they can rip the avatar

vocal shard
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yall think people wont find bypasses within a week for everything you all say.. hillarious

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cause they don't have key
so unless only you wanna see you then this wont be a thing

clever sandal
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Well, all should be against content rippers and I hope there is going on a work to get them banned and that there will come a better system for abuse report. I now feel less willing to upload my best avatars to VRC, so I can guess how the professional content creators feel when they can not sell avatars for some made a copy and then spread it around.

amber juniper
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there is a reason why AAA Games get released, and sometimes on the same Day, or just a few days after launch, there are cracks for them...

vocal shard
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we can all be against content ripping and people who do it all we want but there is no fix for it and probably wont be, not just for vrchat but for unity games / applications in general

dark harness
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I mean, this is a fundamental problem with the internet. Creators suffer when you make an unlicensed copy of their content - be it software, art, music, whatever. That's why DJ Double Def DP tells you not to copy that floppy.

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There are ways to prevent that but those ways inevitably are closed systems

flat fox
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Problem with vrc is if you make it too closed it would loss what make it great to begin with

dark harness
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^

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Just-banana-avatar-in-the-old-hub

vocal shard
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i think 8 avatar slots were enough. sparked movement to worlds / creativity from people

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Pretty sure 95%of public avatars on VRC are probably in violation in someway or another. Weather it be ripped or using something from deviantart you weren’t supposed to edit but did

amber juniper
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I rather have the dev team try to prevent crashers, and develop QOL features, and bugfix, than trying to prevent content ripping

flat fox
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Nah Avatar favourite slot is. Too few for my personal use

vocal shard
flat fox
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Even worse when you have a lot of Avatar demo from event like vket

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You can't fill all of them for testing

vocal shard
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i barely fill up my current 16 xD got 14 saved...but i use maybe 1-3 caus memes

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regardless if anyone likes the outcome of the whole vrchat+ thing its still start marketing, and people will buy it, if you don't like it then dont buy it, continue on your average vrchat day

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🙄

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go to uganda and take yourself back to simpler times

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back to vr+ tho lower th price and you got me paying

flat fox
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Someone might had said it but what english vrc group said versus jp group really feel different

dark harness
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If we could comprehensively solve the problem of who owns the copyright to stuff in VRChat, we could finally truly solve the problem of unlicensed copyrightable content in VRChat - you know, find a way to do a content ID system like Youtube is doing for music - but nobody on our team is terribly good at artificial intelligence

amber juniper
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I just hope they add the the same thing they did with the User Rank, that you can actually hide it

flat fox
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For japanese vrc community there were more willing to pay for vrc+

dark harness
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I struggle with regular intelligence most of the time

vocal shard
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I wish we could go back to Uganda times where there was no "subscription" 🤣

amber juniper
modern fossil
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Hey, I was unable to hear ANYONE in the Great Pug. They could hear me, but I can't hear them.

flat fox
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Don't think that is easy as adding a plug in

sharp saddle
dark harness
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XD I'm disappointed we don't do ALL of vrchat on the blockchain

shut zodiac
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IL2CPP will forever be my favorite change KannaSip

flat fox
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There is a reason why vrc update took some time to do

vocal shard
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why cant we just not have to earn money the world would be a better place

dark harness
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every interaction with other users takes 3 days and needs to be verified by some computers in China, but so secure

vocal shard
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great leader is watching

thick dagger
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Would you guys add a donation thing on your website? (if this already hasn't being asked) so nobody takes a cut

amber juniper
vocal shard
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@amber juniper we have fake capitalism in the us

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anyway yall have fun discussin.. ima go buy me some beers and keep hanging with mah friends in vr

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@thick dagger theres always merch, cop some to directly support / donate vrcWOAH

amber juniper
vocal shard
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lol

thick dagger
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but their merch costs them money to make, but for a straight donation, can't see where

dark harness
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I'm a Canadian, so I believe in socialism for some, miniature donuts for others

clever sandal
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It sound like folk are sad for they are cheap, and if you are a smoker or go out to have a party each Saturday but not want to pay 10 USD to support a game you like, then I realty want to put cookie crumbs in your bed.

vocal shard
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aye i wanna move to canadia i mean canada ahem ahem

amber juniper
vocal shard
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i support this game by playing it at the end of the day tbh

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money doesnt define support breh

dark harness
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Ultimately, just your attention is still a valuable currency to us

shut zodiac
vocal shard
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money is not support anything can be support and i put a lot of hours in the game to show that support

dark harness
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Yep.

thick dagger
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his canadian charm is blinding

amber juniper
vocal shard
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no fuck pizza jk i love pizza

dark harness
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😄 We need money to keep the servers on, but we need players because empty servers are laaaaame

vocal shard
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aws is the best solution for them rn cuz its convienient and easy compared to others

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good way to look at it is this: one day vrc+ features will be the standard and their features will get an upgrade, kinda like hand me downs

amber juniper
dire thicket
vocal shard
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im not saying it will happen but you never know

clever sandal
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Well, if you like it as it is now, then nothing will change and VRC will still be fun for you and me, the + is just give a small + and it is not like Pay To Win. Btw, is there and walkthrough tutorial for how to clear VRC with full score?

dire thicket
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Hadnt read anything about that

vocal shard
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this game shouldnt have been free and im glad it was for so many years and continue to be but if i had to pay a ONE TIME fee to get this game for like 30 bucks id do it cuz I support it

amber juniper
vocal shard
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i will now that u say that

amber juniper
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I also need a VRC Mug, Mugs are cool :3

vocal shard
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im buying vrchat merch rn

supple viper
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Bet

dark harness
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I really want us to put out better merch, too. As much as our logo is a handsome logo, I have a tonne of clothes with company logos on them, from a decade and a half of working in tech

crimson apex
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I don't think the game would have gotten as popular if it wasn't free, I just hope vrc+ works out well though and that features are fair for the price and don't lock anything too important

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I wanna support the devs

vocal shard
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just put out merch with the box kitty

brittle nest
amber juniper
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yeah... it would be a real shame if they would put QOL things behind a paywall

vocal shard
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I would but VRC merch.

dark harness
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writes that down. merch with box kitty. welp, definitely not stealing THAT idea

amber juniper
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(and no, what will be included in the upcoming update I don't consider QOL)

dark harness
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I want a plushie box kitty :3

crimson apex
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I'd definitely buy a vrc mug

vocal shard
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if it becomes a thing you know who to thank haha

dark harness
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... I guess, I want the kitty to be plushie, and the box to be plastic

vocal shard
dark harness
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I have one of those mugs!

crimson apex
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👀

supple viper
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I thought the kitty was a dog, i must be stupid.

vocal shard
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make more colors for the mugs lool

dark harness
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... I bought it with my own money, out of company loyalty, and also because I'm a mug

amber juniper
vocal shard
crimson apex
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If I had the extra money I would make my vr room be decked out in vrc stuff

dark harness
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🙂 my coffee delivery systems are highly optimized, I have a zojirushi water boiler and a $3 plastic pourover thinger

vocal shard
clever sandal
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Darn bot.

amber juniper
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perfection

amber juniper
vocal shard
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@dark harness if you'd like another idea, just change the vrc+ icon on the box on the kitty to the vrc logo and slap that on a shirt, everyone likes cats! hell even put him/her on a mug vrcTongue

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🍋

dark harness
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So, threadless merch doesn't pay us very well, and their products are... only acceptable in quality, but because it's all print-on-demand so we can offer every stupid thing in their entire product line

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finally, the VRChat throw pillow I've always dreamed of

crimson apex
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If I do ever have the chance of getting hired on by vrc I think I already know what my pay is going to, I'll have the largest collection if vrc mugs

vocal shard
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@dark harness Do you agree with lemons?

dark harness
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All right, I've been thinking, when life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade! Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager!
Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I'm the man whose gonna burn your house down - with the lemons!

polar jasper
clever sandal
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I wrote the sound children make when they find troll Shaggy, and the bot identified it as spam rather fast 😄

vocal shard
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@dark harness System that was a great response. Yesssssss.

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love the portal reference

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Cave Johnson 🤣

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I beat both games they good lel

dire thicket
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If we're talking merch, vrc need magnets. Only magnets, made by magnets for magnets.

dark harness
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not branded magnets

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just magnets

vocal shard
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just magnets

dark harness
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we sell virtual reality and magnets now

vocal shard
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@dark harness Wait! Ive got it! VRChat should make their own Headset!

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just curious but is it true non vrc+ users will be getting 25 favorite slots this next patch?

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yall will sell millions and billions lel

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cause the hard cap in the api is 25 now thats why im asking

polar jasper
dark harness
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Yeah, the trouble with pay-once schemes is that they don't work well with stuff that's intended to stay alive perpetually, unless you're charging people an obscene amount of money or you're growing at a stupendous rate (at which point the money you're bringing in will keep you going in ponzi-scheme style- by the time it runs out you've already skipped town)

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and yes! 25 favorite slots! the reason for that upgrade is extremely stupid! 😄

vocal shard
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whats the reason lol

dark harness
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it wasn't so much "good will" as it was "we needed the vrchat+ bonus to be a multiple of the original number for stupid technical reasons"

vocal shard
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noice, noticed that when i was messing with the api earlier

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ah yall dont have good hearts, nice lol

dark harness
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Nope, my heart is entirely stone and some lemons

vocal shard
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🍋

dark harness
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how did these get here

dire thicket
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My heart is full of Wholesome.

vocal shard
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If you post a lemon I will be ur friend @dark harness

clever sandal
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Most freeloaders (Like me) use free avatars anyhow, just go to the server that have them and pick them up when you need them 🙂 Infinite avatar space that way.

potent fern
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All the rage seems to be about 🍋 , yall sleeping on 🍈

vocal shard
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wonder when the message endpoint in the api will have a use finally, i wanna send my friends owo faces when i see them in a private world

dark harness
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See, there's a whole anti-VRC+-lemon-thing-going on right now, or I totes would. I really like lemons, because I'm an inveterate drunk after hours and this year I've had LOADS of time to work on my mixology game

#

you give me a lemon and I will drink it with whiskey and simple syrup and egg white and some bitters

potent fern
#

ok, I like lemonade but thats too much lol

dire thicket
#

Mmm why would you want sour whiskey?

vocal shard
#

lemon isn't always sour

#

Ok its chill lemon gang be cool tho

dark harness
#

... a whiskey sour is a spectacular beverage

vocal shard
#

Ah yes alchohol

dark harness
#

anybody who's reading this who's over the drinking age in your respective communities and also currently interested-in, able-to and not-haunted-by alcohol, I highly recommend trying a whiskey sour if you've not

vocal shard
#

@dark harness You better not be drunk right now!

dire thicket
#

Shhh... everyones secretly drunk on lemon whiskey atm

vocal shard
#

I've had it before and its very nice

vivid mortar
#

erm

supple viper
dire thicket
#

What are we typing so intensively?

vocal shard
#

System takin forever to type lmao

dark harness
#

No! My house is running pretty dry right now. I'm down to, like, the dregs of two bottles of tequila, three half-filled bottles of rum, maybe a half bottle of whiskey, some leftover scotch, a bunch of mixers that are a thousand years old that I'm never going to drink (sour puss raspberry? enhhhh), two bottles of red wine, one bottle of white, a late-harvest riesling, one can of beer, and ...

civic lagoon
#

why are you guys censoring people on canny @dark harness a friend of mines feedback all were deleted.

dark harness
#

do you know those alcoholic beverages that accumulate in the back of your fridge because, like, friends or family bring them over and leave them and they just stay there and you never, ever drink them? I've been trying to clear out those.

#

Today I had a swedish pear-and-strawberry cider that was so bad that I had to pour it out.

civic lagoon
#

he was also banned from this server for no reason whatsoever a long time ago.

dark harness
#

then I made myself a mezcal sour

vocal shard
#

wow I never knew the vrchat devs were professional alcoholics

#

had some cucumber voda mixed with lemonade tonight to wind down

dark harness
#

Well, not ALL of us

vocal shard
#

The swedish pear-and -strawberry cider is amazing

#

lol ik system its okay buddyyyy

vivid mortar
#

is vrchat still independently owned?

vocal shard
#

i thought it was a private company.

#

ya its privately owned

dark harness
#

Nope. I think it was independently owned for a very short while, and then there was VC funding, and now we're owned by a whole bunch of different companies from a whole bunch of different places

#

I own a teeny tiny little pie slice of the company even

vivid mortar
#

interesting

vocal shard
#

yes interesting lol

dark harness
#

We're private, though - going public is a huuuuuge step for companies

vocal shard
#

public would be risky tooo

dark harness
#

Roblox is a hundred times bigger than us and they're getting ready to go public

vocal shard
#

so when is box cat getting added to the discord emotes for the server?

#

when is vrchat lemon emote being added to the vrchat emote list

snow wadi
#

If you ever go public System, name your section Teeny Tiny Department.

vocal shard
#

make the lemon emote vrc+ XDDDDDD

dark harness
#

If we ever go public I'm gonna sell all of my stock and build tiny open-source procedurally-generated music games from a distant mountain cabin

snow wadi
#

Oh ok that's a totally different kind of teeny Tiny.

dark harness
#

A MAN CAN DREAM

snow wadi
#

Dream some.more, dammit!

dark harness
#

dream harder

polar jasper
dark harness
#

it's not widely known, but as much as 15% of our servers are propped up by hopes and dreams at any given time

vocal shard
#

@dark harness Hey I would like to know why you or the VRC-Staff are removing peoples posts on the cany without any reason or banable case? If you just ignore this it just proves that there really is some kinda of cenership going on in the cany without any reason.

vivid mortar
#

Do you think vrchat will ever have internships?

dark harness
#

It proves nothing except that I don't know jack shit about how we manage the Canny

vocal shard
#

xD

amber juniper
vivid mortar
#

I’m in the worlds first full degree program for virtual reality development and I love vrchat but there’s still such limited info on the company and how they do things since it’s so small

dark harness
#

I don't even know who's managing it. Like, we pay Canny, maybe they're the ones running it?

vocal shard
#

id hate to be the one that manages the canny honestly, or even reports at that

#

@dark harness im adding the lemon emote to the canny

civic lagoon
#

they only posted their opinion.

ocean lark
#

Can we just have like 1 custom icon slot for free users? x) kthx

snow wadi
#

Wouldn't server side be handled by a company?

vocal shard
#

@dark harness Ok then so who manages it becuase people I know are getting there posts removed for no reason but just taking about the new VRC+ with other people.

crimson apex
#

They just said they don't know

dark harness
#

"I don't even know who's managing it. " - Me, just now

snow wadi
#

Oh sorry.

vocal shard
snow wadi
#

It's still just the one see we though right? There isn't like an EU or Asia server.

dark harness
#

As for the internship thing - I don't know! I'm not sure if an internship at VRChat would actually be something I'd recommend, either for us or for the student.

#

Our all-virtual-all-the-time system means you don't get a lot of hands on mentorship - even our junior employees can struggle with this

vocal shard
#

ya internships are weird

#

@dark harness I get it you do the backend server work but how do you not know who looks at it at all?? How do you not know what your other co-workers do

dark harness
#

Our product is really complicated and messy maybe not something you'd want to learn from

calm swift
#

Everyone have a good day/night widepeepohappyvrcLove vrcSnowFlake vrcGift

vivid mortar
#

lol noted, thank you for the honesty

snow wadi
#

If you want to intern, I don't really recommend the game industry. Starting in IT though is a more manageable approach.

crimson apex
#

I really wanna work for you guys at vrc in some way, I applied for an position so I'm just patiently waiting

dark harness
#

... I mean, the company has less than 30 people and I can tell you what maybe 3 of them are working on at any given time. I don't think I could even give you an accurate count of how many people work for us right now.

sharp saddle
dark harness
#

I'm an engineer, all's I care about is The Project I'm Working On Right Now, knowing what people do around me? that's project manager stuff

vocal shard
#

What are you working on right now? 👀

snow wadi
#

The cabin in the mountains.

dark harness
#

... I don't know how much Canny costs us. It's not terribly much.

vivid mortar
#

@snow wadi ive already worked in IT and im getting a dual degree in immersive reality development and game design at a school that is known for getting great jobs for their student right out of the gate

vocal shard
#

Ight its kinda 2 am and I wanna talk to my girlfriend tomorrow in vrchat so gunna go tty guys l8r

vivid mortar
#

plus it's what i want to create a company for, so i wouldnt want to waste time in IT

dark harness
#

Well, right now I'm not working on anything. 😛

snow wadi
#

I mean START in IT is what I was saying.

vivid mortar
#

@snow wadi yes and i said i already have done IT work and i have the opportunity to start at blizzard or riot or a big company

#

so i wouldnt think starting in IT would make sense

snow wadi
#

Oh please not blizzard.

vivid mortar
#

lol yeah blizzard wouldnt be my first choice

#

I'm mostly looking at VR specific companies

dark harness
#

I spent 4 months interning at EA, uh, <small>12 years ago</small>, and despite their creeping evil, it was a great time

#

they had waffles!

#

every week!

vocal shard
#

waffles are cool

vivid mortar
#

yesss EA is a big partner with my school too

snow wadi
#

But how were they managing their staff there? Were they actually nice?

vocal shard
#

Waffles! That's it. All sins are forgiven

dark harness
#

They were actually nice! 🙂

snow wadi
#

What?!?

vivid mortar
#

i hear ubisoft is also a great one

potent fern
#

with EA we hear a lot about how they are with players but I havent heard much of how is it inside between them

dark harness
#

A big part of that is that nobody's going to rest a crucial part of the game on the shoulders of someone who's only around for a few months, so what they'll usually do (for intern devs) is pick out a set of low-prio bugs for you to work on for a while, and if you finish those too quickly you get a big open-ended project that nobody gives a shit about 😛

potent fern
#

in contrast to RIOT where internal drama is all I hear.

vivid mortar
#

lolol

dark harness
#

I mean, at the TIME I thought I was doing world-changing work, but in retrospect, I realize that I burned through my bugs too quickly and so they gave me a make work project

vivid mortar
#

im still deciding if I want to intern for passion or connections

#

i would love to intern with a company doing vr in cohesion with mental health or autism, that's the big goal

#

hard to find rn though, they are all blossoming startups

dark harness
#

But, yeah, at least while I was there - EA is passionate game developers all the way up to the senior level, and then, above those guys, are producers who sometimes are, like, executives from outside-of-the-games-industry-entirely, they're, like, "I made my millions in shoes, how different could games be", and I think that maybe some of the bad EA decisions are not coming from the legions of passionate game developers who work there

vivid mortar
#

LOL oof

#

that makes sense

iron cobalt
#

Are we allowed to discuss VRChat+ within this server?

dark harness
#

You can!

vivid mortar
#

oop why'd you delete that message lmao

#

are you engineering something evil

amber juniper
dark harness
#

Not outright, but I had a good follow-up that I was trying to segue to, but I couldn't find any verification that my fun anecdote ever happened

vivid mortar
#

lol

vocal shard
#

Cat girls are pog

dark harness
#

"I heard that one time, to prove why engineering ethics courses were probably necessary, a guy got a bunch of engineering students to design a blood pipeline and the students never bothered to ask what the blood pipeline was for or why they were designing it" - which is a fun story, but I can't find a link so maybe it's just a story

amber juniper
dark harness
#

ha! it IS real

amber juniper
#

maybe that one?

dark harness
#

That is definitely the one

vocal shard
#

“Your scientists were so caught up with weather they COULD, they never stopped to ask weather they SHOULD”

vivid mortar
#

where and when will + be available for purchase

amber juniper
dark harness
#

Where: in VRChat, Steam only
When: sometime before Christmas, unless something goes extremely bad, then sometime after Christmas once they get me out of jail

lucid rock
#

When can I preorder vrc+

ocean lark
#

||Still request atleast 1 icon slot for free users :)||

vocal shard
vivid mortar
#

most of the feedback im seeing is anger on steam, what was the initial response like in here? lol

amber juniper
vocal shard
#

About the same

dark harness
#

To pre-order VRC+, stand in The Great Pug, hold out your arms in a T-Pose, and shout "I DECLARE VRCHAT PLUS", and then, once the subscription comes out, a copy will be waiting for you

lucid rock
#

OkivrcVard

ocean lark
#

I really don't get why people are so upset, it's not like they're locking too much away to have a vastly different experience. They just tryna make some money bruh x)

vocal shard
#

Now that, that sounds like Vrchat!

cold quiver
white latch
ocean lark
white latch
#

Speedrun any%

ocean lark
#

preorder%

vivid mortar
#

i think that $5 a month seems more accurate for the features included in the video, i don't see anything that justifies the price at first glance with most of the content being user-generated... Will there be more features for subscribers than the ones initially described?

polar jasper
dark harness
#

I actually find that the average level of saltiness goes down 9/10 while I'm around - when I'm out of the room it's like "WHY WOULD I PAY FOR THIS STEAMING PILE OF DOG POOPS" and then I pop in channel and everyone's like "I respectfully disagree with your opinion to charge $9.99 for this subscription model, which I understand that you need to support your development efforts :earlgray:"

vocal shard
jovial kestrel
amber juniper
white latch
#

When it's actually a person you can talk to they realize it isn't an inanimate object you can spew hate at

ocean lark
#

This is honestly my first time popping in this discord in months, so I didn't see any storm here yet.

polar jasper
#

I meam, a team member have responded before and people were salty then =/

vivid mortar
#

yes, i've been using vrchat since 2017 and never knew that the vrchat team was this easily accessible

vocal shard
#

^true

dark harness
#

The trick is, I'm lemon proof, because I have all of this unsweetened tea and sugar.

#

I nicked it when you weren't looking - and I'd do it again

vocal shard
#

🍉 how about watermelons?

supple viper
#

🍉

civic lagoon
#

🍉

vivid mortar
#

it seems fitting that vrchat creators are accessible to the community being that vrchat kind of IS its community

vocal shard
#

how about frogs? 🐸

dark harness
#

I like watermeloans, although with the huge popularity of the uganda knuckles thing I'd worry that I was buying into some kind of racist stereotype thing rather than just enjoying a delicious melon

polar jasper
#

Let’s just stick with spacecats

vocal shard
#

🍋 Loader

amber juniper
white latch
#

Stan VRCat

still lark
polar jasper
snow wadi
#

Phaxe really enjoying that mascot.

vocal shard
#

Sometimes I load up my 🍋

polar jasper
#

It’s cheerful

vocal shard
snow wadi
vivid mortar
vocal shard
#

Sometimes my 🍋 lets me fly

vivid mortar
#

i dont know what it is, nor do i agree with it, it's just something ive heard often

vocal shard
#

I personally think that they shouldn’t have added the “trust boost” part. From what I hear it’s not enough to rank you up anyways

#

Should’ve kept that bit of info to themselves XD

iron cobalt
#

@dark harness, is this paying for mirrors real, or is it fake or an exaggeration of real facts?
https://reddit.com/comments/jxhsvp/comment/gd5xb1j?context=3
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/779933623486513183/779934003804766228/Unknow.png

No one has verified or refuted it on Reddit yet, but it makes the difference between VRChat+ being a bit overpriced, but otherwise okey, or a potential marker of VRChat finally turning evil, as all proprietary social media platforms tend to eventually.

Although I have plenty of criticism of VRChat+ myself, and cannot justify buying it due to you still not bothering to officially support Linux, since I have a policy of never financially supporting any software which locks people to proprietary operating systems… I do think the criticism of it is way overkill for what it is, unless you really are charging people just to use HD mirrors on their own GPUs, in which case maybe VRChat really has gone over the deep end of excessively monetising everything…

vocal shard
#

Sometimes I accidentally forget my 🍋 is a 🍉

still lark
cold quiver
vivid mortar
#

I have thousands of hours, no bad behavior, tons of uploaded content, tons of friends, been playing since 2017 and im still "known user" somehow, so i would welcome finally getting my stupid account to trusted even though i really should be

#

@vocal shard but i do get what you mean and kind of agree at the same time

snow wadi
#

Don't believe everything you read, @iron cobalt .

cold quiver
#

someone lying on the internet? shocking vrcSad

dark harness
#

While I think it's super important for a game to be transparent and communicative with its fans - there are reasons why it's good to keep a little quiet, too. For one thing, communicating with everyone all the time is a full-time-job - back in 2017 when we launched people would ask me why they didn't see me in VRChat and I'd always just answer with "IF I EVER STOP LOOKING AT THE SERVERS THEY LIGHT ON FIRE AND FALL INTO THE SEA" without ever blinking.
I also, uh, especially in 2017, I was new to "working on a product with fans" and I would often be kind of cruel and shitty in comms in a way where the CEO would come to me and demand I delete what I said and cool off for a little bit. Which, uh, he SHOULD have done, because, you know, don't be mean to users. Even if they're WRONG, on the INTERNET.

iron cobalt
dark harness
#

VRChat+ mirrors are a definite fraud

iron cobalt
#

Good to know.

polar jasper
dark harness
#

We know that people come to our game 4% for social interaction, 2% for headpats, 3% for stuff I'd rather not talk about, and 91% for mirrors

vocal shard
#

Could you imagine the backlash they’d get for adding a portable mirror behind a paywall. Yikes.

dark harness
#

It'd be like a little compact, with, like, a mirror on one side and cosmetics on the other

snow wadi
#

Soon they'll say the worlds tab will be locked behind vrc+.

amber juniper
cold quiver
#

i'll pay for a dlc that lets me delete mirrors in instances globally vrcAevSip

snow wadi
#

The internet is one big mumbo jumbo xD

vocal shard
#

@dark harness Dude you are a smart guy you should go work for another company with actual potential

placid umbra
#

Tons of people use the VR camera as a personal mirror already!

snow wadi
#

Yup.

rough pulsar
#

Not enough though, still have the hordes of mirror squatters.

dark harness
#

Pfft, I fully believe that in 2025 VRChat is going to be more popular than Facebook

#

we're going to dominate the global magnet market

#

nobody will sell more unbranded regular magnets than VRChat

sharp saddle
amber juniper
vocal shard
#

I swear people are crack addicts for mirrors 🤣 Where’s the mirror? Where’s the button for the mirror?? I need a mirror.

snow wadi
#

And if facebook buys vrchat? XD

vocal shard
#

System I feel like your the only one with balls here to talk with people

dark harness
#

If Facebook buys VRChat then I will be wrong, but also I will console myself with the duffel bags full of cash

#

just crying and crying into my riches

rapid sedge
#

Goodness, I'm afraid of anyone saying "I won't let myself be bought by Facebook". Cuz that's what Oculus said

snow wadi
vivid mortar
#

if facebook bought vrchat, i'd be so sad

cold quiver
#

vrchat now requires a facebook account
vrcWOAH

vivid mortar
#

that would be

snow wadi
#

A Facebook Account is required to login

polar jasper
#

Hey, at least people would be happy there wouldn’t be any sub features. Since they sell your data anyway

jovial kestrel
#

I don't want to think about that.

vocal shard
rapid sedge
#

Btw, I just want to make sure, how the heck was VRchat funded before the premium feature was mentioned?

vivid mortar
#

if facebook bought it out, everything that has inspired my life's direction would be ashes

snow wadi
#

Hopes and dreams.

dark harness
#

I can't speak at all to what's in the cards - I don't think I'd mind being a Facebook engineer until whatever golden handcuffs came off, and then retiring - but I definitely don't know how it would affect the product. Whatever came out the other end would probably be an extremely safe, well-optimized experience for the whole family.

iron cobalt
#

I do not trust VRChat to not be bought by Facebook, and never have. I'm not sure I've ever seen a loss-leading platform like this not start to turn evil eventually.

So, to me, VRChat+ is actually much better than what I feared, and I hope it stays that way, like Discord currently does.

dark harness
#

@rapid sedge we kept ourselves warm by burning investor money like it was kindling

amber juniper
dark harness
#

look, blood's gotta get places

rapid sedge
#

Thanks adsgsdfha, because for a while I was worried about how it'll go down

dark harness
#

not on, like, vacations or beach parties like some people seem to think - mostly on, like, servers, and getting UDON up and running which was fabulously difficult and involved cubed levelling up to "full-on language designer"

rapid sedge
#

I do hope I see VRC+ be as successful as Discord Nitro :0

amber juniper
snow wadi
#

Actually they won't buy vrchat, they have horizon already.

still lark
#

buy to kill tho?

snow wadi
#

Unless that flops...

vocal shard
white latch
dark harness
#

Yeah, being that Facebook already has a competing product, their modus is "conquer or buy-to-kill"

rapid sedge
#

Then it'd be like Google and Google Video

vivid mortar
#

i feel a second wave coming

rapid sedge
#

they decided to buy Youtube instead

dark harness
#

so if we survive their product (I think we will, we have the POWER OF MIRRORS) they might try to buy us just to shut us down? who knows.

#

if that happens I'll end up working on, like, React VR or some stupid corner project, if I'm lucky.

cold quiver
#

Usually when a larger company buys a smaller business, its not always for the purpose of acquiring the product, but also talent acquisition.

amber juniper
dark harness
#

Instagram is doing pretty well!

snow wadi
dark harness
#

that was a fairly prominent purchase!

vocal shard
#

Vrchat plus will be like a subscription or just a one time thing?

dark harness
#

Subscription.

snow wadi
#

Sub.

iron cobalt
#

They can't, because VRChat still runs on PC. It even technicallt runs on Linux under Steam Proton, and not even Microsoft can censor that.

vocal shard
#

Oh okay

vivid mortar
#

do you think that christmas + the quest 2 will mean a largely expanding new user base for vrchat?

amber juniper
dark harness
#

I kinda hope so. 🙂

snow wadi
#

It's like world of warcraft but you get to be the waifu!

cold quiver
#

pretty much, can think of a few companies that google bought up just for the people and killed the product and integrated the team into similar products

vocal shard
dark harness
#

I mean, every Christmas that comes along I hope that we see crazy, wild, unmanageable growth, and also I hope that my servers don't light on fire

rapid sedge
#

The quest 2 is already getting a lot of sales, I just got one to get into the VR aspect and it's honestly worth it imo :0

rough pulsar
snow wadi
#

What's the cap before your servers go poopy?

amber juniper
hollow ingot
#

. . .

vocal shard
#

@dark harness So to sum it all up your broke as a company and you need us to help keep the game up?

#

How many quests are already sitting in a closet waiting to be put under a Christmas tree?

iron cobalt
#

My other criticism, is that I really wish subscriptions would be more reasonably priced, including VRChat+. Everyone wanting $10 adds up very, very quickly, and your competitors have cheaper equivalents to it with better benefits. $4 or $1 would be much more reasonable.

rough pulsar
vivid mortar
#

i sure have been running into a lot of people lately with the "today is my first day on vrchat" intro

dark harness
#

there are more people in VRChat right now then there have ever been before

#

like, right this minute, these words are literally true

snow wadi
#

Steam charts shows a bit of that growth.

polar jasper
#

There has been more than 22k on no?

amber juniper
vocal shard
snow wadi
#

It's quite a bump.

white latch
#

I imagine the game will def get a boost on christmas lmao

exotic obsidian
#

@snow wadi vrcHandWave

rapid sedge
#

I just saw around 2k in Black Cat Cafe earlier :0

lucid rock
#

It was at 25,500 a couple hours ago

placid umbra
#

(I think it was like 2 hours ago)

dark harness
#

I wouldn't say we're broke as a company - but, like many startups, we have enough operating capital to keep the lights on for a certain amount of time, and once that time is up, it's game over

snow wadi
#

@exotic obsidian henlo!

dark harness
#

If VRChat+ goes really well, we can bask in the warm glow of knowing that we have jobs for a while longer

amber juniper
snow wadi
#

Here's to hoping 2021 shows promising results.

iron cobalt
vocal shard
#

If vrchat were to ever go down, my life would be over D:

polar jasper
#

You’d just move somewhere else 😛

dark harness
#

It's funny, because actually every time we've got more popular, it's actually shortened our lifespan

amber juniper
polar jasper
#

So stop promoting VRC? LUL

dark harness
#

We don't promote VRC

vivid mortar
#

there are too many worlds, people, and avatars that im emotionally invested in, moving somewhere else wouldnt be an easy or happy feat for most people

dark harness
#

it keeps happening organically!

vocal shard
iron cobalt
white latch
#

Agreed, I haven't made over 300 avatars for nothing

rapid sedge
#

Start banning funny people to stop the spread of youtube videos that attract attention.

dark harness
#

If we actually hit a point where new users were paying for themselves (approximately) at a stable rate, it would make sense to start advertising, even 😛

polar jasper
rough pulsar
#

If VRC were to lose all the income needed to run everything, in that short timespan where no money is coming in but there's enough to keep things going, everyone would quickly prepare to migrate to the most viable alternative.

This basically happened during 2017 (I think) when AltspaceVR nearly went out.

amber juniper
vivid mortar
vocal shard
vivid mortar
#

that's my worry

dark harness
#

I think it's bold to think that there's a competitor of ours out there that could deal with all of our users showing up by surprise all of the sudden without their own servers collapsing

rough pulsar
#

I can think of at least 3 different ones people may go to so that'd at least spread the load.

white latch
#

Every other social vr game implodes

dark harness
#

they'd eventually work that out, wherever, though

rough pulsar
#

Either way, VRC going down would be quite chaotic.

dark harness
#

like, "suddenly we have an audience" is a terrible, amazing problem to have

polar jasper
vivid mortar
vocal shard
#

Oof could you imagine if everyone at the same time moved over to CVR. Pretty sure they’d die 🤣

rough pulsar
#

Either die, or become an incredible test of their server scalability.

vivid mortar
#

the people that i have heard talking about that kind of thing are the people with 4k* hours in vrchat that eat sleep and breathe it

iron cobalt
#

My problem is Linux support. I don't understand why it is not supported when it is running on Unity, which makes it relatively trivial to export multiplatform. If they won't even bother to support our operating system, does our money even matter?

vivid mortar
#

i think they are mostly scared of losing their home and social circle

vocal shard
#

If they didn’t die, I would be wowed

white latch
rough pulsar
dark harness
#

I mean "advertising VRChat to people outside of VRChat", not "advertising to people inside VRChat" - like, if we determine that for every 100 users that come in, 5 of them get VRChat +, and the cost-per user is less than $.50/user/mo, then it starts to make sense to bring on as many users as we can handle

iron cobalt
vivid mortar
#

i see i see

polar jasper
dark harness
#

Federated servers are a pipe dream! there, I'll say it

waxen kayak
#

hi

amber juniper
iron cobalt
dark harness
#

Email is a federated, "community managed" protocol, and do you know what happened? That's right, everybody gets their email from one of three gigantic mega-companies who figured out that they can pay for it by mining your personal information out of those emails and using that data to sell you toasters

rough pulsar
amber juniper
iron cobalt
dark harness
#

... is it ProtonMail?

iron cobalt
#

Exactly.

#

How did you know?

dark harness
#

Because out of all of the mailservers we've blocked, that's the one that I actually use personally

amber juniper
#

oh... sorry, wrong reply ;)

dark harness
#

The only people who use ProtonMail are malicious hackers and trolls

iron cobalt
#

Huh.

I was going to edit my message with "Or, VRChat does", but didn't in time, and in hindsight, that would be a really, really important distinction since you use it…

dark harness
#

says, with an account on ProtonMail

amber juniper
#

pgp is enuff

vocal shard
#

Confirmed, system is a troll.

iron cobalt
#

Exactly! Some people are not!

Now I wonder, would pm.me work? Or using my own domain?

dark harness
#

Using your own domain would work

iron cobalt
#

Good to know. I really need to set that up.

vocal shard
#

So then what is the point of blocking emails if you can just buy a domain?

dark harness
#

ProtonMail is the only mail service that, uh, got blocked because a few people were abusing from proton-sourced mail very badly, and I... just forgot to unblock it....

#

wait

#

.... maybe I remembered to unblock it?

#

I don't see it in my list

#

but if you use 0815.ru you're right out

iron cobalt
#

I registered maybe a month ago. If it's changed since then, maybe I can finally change my email to my real one?

dark harness
#

I haven't changed email validation in well more than a month, but, uh, maybe I need to do some debugging with my protonmail account

snow wadi
#

Hah I just noticed discord notifications gets pushed to my car display.

vocal shard
#

Oh?

dark harness
#

I can always create accounts with my extremely good vanity email domain, gooble.email

snow wadi
#

Nice.

iron cobalt
#

Cool. I like it.

sturdy burrow
#

is there a ltp / lfg channel?

snow wadi
#

@vocal shard ewwo o/

vocal shard
#

Hi hi!!!!

sturdy burrow
#

'='

iron cobalt
#

My selection of domains isn't nearly as good… but using my main .me website should suffice, I think.

snow wadi
sturdy burrow
#

chara lets go nobody's responding

dark harness
#

I think that the distributed/decentralized model of VR is how I'd want VR to be, how I'd build it if I were just working on VR out of my garage, but I don't think it's a very likely direction for our product

#

Down that path is an enormous amount of technical risk - it really, IMO, needs to be built against that model from the ground up

iron cobalt
#

Also, pretty hard to monatise.

vocal shard
#

I like your funny words, magic man.

#

ello

unreal verge
#

Hi

vocal shard
#

wher yall be at im bored ;-;

abstract sinew
#

tfw crasher is afk in a world

dark harness
#

We've talked about how we would build such a thing - replace our file-systems with ipfs, replace our networking stack with matrix or something - there's already a lot of p2p, we'd essentially be letting p2p take over entirely and turn security to "off" - but these are really no more than fun thought experiments

iron cobalt
#

My ideal method of monetisation is probably what NeosVR has. It is effective – they make lots of money enough – while also not being too intrusive.

…That, specifically, was the competitor I was referring to with better prices for better benefits.

vocal shard
#

where*

#

huh?

cold quiver
#

sort of like mozilla hubs i suppose? I like the idea of virtual worlds that are just places hosted just like web pages are, and can be visited by anyone with a compatible client.

iron cobalt
unreal verge
#

I think I'm beginning to develop phantom touch. I'm getting tingles comparable to ASMR if i get headpetted.

snow wadi
#

Is it really a viable option though? Just turning the security switch to off?

vocal shard
#

man i wish i can join you guys cause rn im bored and i have nothing to do

dark harness
#

Dedicated servers aren't as distributed as me and our network lead would want to go. That's federation, not a truly distributed protocol.

iron cobalt
vocal shard
#

wait are you guys on vrchat?

iron cobalt
vocal shard
#

T>T

dark harness
#

With federation you need to find someone to soak up the running costs for the whole group. I'm not convinced it's better than centralization OR p2p.

vocal shard
#

im confused

unreal verge
#

Nah i fell asleep in a world with my friends and now they're offline after waking up.

vocal shard
#

i was on a world where my friends also fell asleep

iron cobalt
vocal shard
vocal shard
#

-_-

dark harness
#

So, with Neos's $6/mo plan, you get 25GB of storage and some microcurrency
and with our $0/mo plan, you get infinite free storage and nobody has any microcurrency

snow wadi
#

@dark harness if you had the ability to make one major change to vrchat, what would it be?

vocal shard
#

wait what time is it on your side?

iron cobalt
vocal shard
#

umm i dunno i just started so i dont know much

white latch
vocal shard
#

?

#

im kinda new to vrchat so im not going to understand more then half of what your saying ;-;'

dark harness
#

If I could make one major change?

That's a tough one. I think, off the top of my head, I'd make it so that there's no Labs - you upload a world, it goes straight to public, and to heck with the potential moderation headaches.

vocal shard
civic lagoon
#

@dark harness how many avatars do you think are uploaded currently?

vocal shard
snow wadi
#

Eh? Wouldn't low effort worlds flood the list then?

cold quiver
#

oh boy another box

vocal shard
#

ehh i dunno

dark harness
#

I can't say for sure, somewhere between 9,364,300 and 9,364,301 avatars

white latch
#

no labs scares me

vocal shard
#

wtf

#

what are avatars?

#

Should make an feature for VRC+ to skip Community labs when uploading a world

#

They fight the fire nation

#

and what are they suppost to do?

dark harness
#

Maybe that's a bad call? Labs does improve the average user experience going into a world quite a bit. I'm not sure what else I'd change, though.

vocal shard
#

fire nation?

dark harness
#

Everything changed when the fire nation attacked.

cold quiver
iron cobalt
# dark harness So, with Neos's $6/mo plan, you get 25GB of storage and some microcurrency and w...

What I mean is:

With your $10 a month plan, you get a nice badge and some more avatar slots, among other minor benefits. It would be very hard for me to afford.

With NeosVR's $6 per month, I get about $3.33 worth of their cryptocurrency each month, and a Patreon badge, in addition to more space than I plan on using. It is just affordable enough, with that crypto I get back from it, that I can justify it as my first Patreon in my very small budget.

And, if one is even more poor, the $1 per month plan still gets the badge, and helps one contribute, even if they can't garner $6 a month.

vocal shard
#

who or what is the fire nation

#

MY brother and I discovered the new avatar

#

@dark harness How many petabyte of storage do you guys use could not imagin how many drives just live to slave for avatars

#

what

iron cobalt
#

I guess the main advantage is just having multiple plans, since it means even poor people can be contributors.

dark harness
#

I don't know. The last time I checked how much space we were using exactly it was 2018, and the number was already bonkers high.

vocal shard
#

i gtg bye nice chating wit u all :))

dark harness
#

Technically I should probably know this number

obsidian herald
#

Over 9,000 I guess!
LOL!

white latch
#

yeah

vocal shard
#

that was totall cringe

dark harness
#

The person who's job it is to know the number is me, but I don't know it

rough pulsar
vocal shard
white latch
dark harness
#

I think when I checked in 2018 we were in the surprisingly low, like, 300TB range

vocal shard
#

@dark harness If you are using that much I don't think I would like to peek over at how many worlds are uploaded and the storage size

iron cobalt
dark harness
#

Storage is actually dwarfed by bandwidth

vocal shard
#

Yeah that makes since becuase of all the API requests and Avatar/Worlds downloading

dark harness
#

like, if the amount of money we pay to store every single world, and the amount of money we pay to serve Just The Great Pug were to have a fight, the Great Pug would punch the storage money into orbit and then dance a merry jig

amber juniper
iron cobalt
#

Storage is very, very cheap. I have 11TB of space on my main computer.

rapid sedge
#

Remove the game, keep the Great Pug

dark harness
white latch
#

pug pugatory

iron cobalt
vocal shard
#

The great pug war

rapid sedge
#

Until the pug nation attacked

white latch
#

f

vocal shard
#

Who would win? All of VRChat? Or The great pug?

white latch
#

pug

sturdy burrow
iron cobalt
#

What was that VRChat game has ended message?

cold quiver
#

events like vket must cost quite a bit bandwidth wise

sturdy burrow
#

that was for among us

#

vrchat among us

dark harness
#

during the Big Growth Event my first priority was keeping the servers on under brutal sudden surprise loads, and then, like, literally the moment we got that up and running we pivoted to "how are we going to pay for all of these servers" and basically the first six months of 2018 was a very unpleasant year for me

amber juniper
#

wait... if the great pug consumes so much bandwith... what about Among Us?

shut zodiac
dark harness
#

just making big random server moves that were the equivalent of finding $100,000 under the couch cushions

iron cobalt
#

Oh no.

sturdy burrow
#

did you know:

#

i am sad

vocal shard
#

Is anyone else having the issue of joining other players but turns out you're the only person in the server?

sturdy burrow
#

The parsec (symbol: pc) is a unit of length used to measure the large distances to astronomical objects outside the Solar System. One parsec is approximately equal to 31 trillion kilometres (19 trillion miles), or 210,000 astronomical units, and equates to about 3.3 light-years. A parsec is obtained by the use of parallax and trigonometry, and is defined as the distance at which one astronomical unit subtends an angle of one arcsecond (1/3600 of a degree). This corresponds to approximately 648000/π astronomical units, i.e. 1 pc = 1 au/tan(1″). The nearest star, Proxima Centauri, is about 1.3 parsecs (4.2 light-years) from the Sun. Most of the stars visible to the unaided eye in the night sky are within 500 parsecs of the Sun.

dark harness
#

for a little while we got Cloudflare to serve tens of thousands of dollars worth of bandwidth for us for the low low price of a $200/mo business plan

#

I think if I just pitch that I can probably get a job anywhere 😛

white latch
#

and the fire nation attacked

shut zodiac
cold quiver
vocal shard
#

lmao good lord

dark harness
#

well, anywhere but Cloudflare 😉

cold quiver
#

woops, meant to respond to the first statement

white latch
#

i hate myself for naming half of my avatars things i dont know what they are and making the thumbnails impossible to discern

rapid sedge
#

@System Alright, so here's a toughie question because I'm aware of a game or two that had gone through this mess. What if VRChat gets dangerously low in terms of funding? Would the team be forced to cut down on a few features?

cold quiver
#

but thats impressive, cloudflare is usually quite zealous when people start using absurd amounts of bandwidth to rehost static files are they not

iron cobalt
#

Do features even cost that much money? I would think the vast majority of the cost would be from hosting worlds.

rapid sedge
#

Right, or like creating avatars. I'm asking this because from experience, games like Roblox for example did pull a few quick moves that was rough for the team. Like a MASSIVE cutoff from customization, world management, and various other aspects of the game back in like, 2011.

dark harness
#

Oh, no, if we get dangerously low in terms of funding, I imagine that everything would stay exactly as it is, and then abruptly one day we'll announce that we've been purchased by, like, a tiny potato company you've never heard of, and then a few weeks later we'll announce the last server day as we shut things down for a while to retool our core business, and that'll probably be it. Our VR headsets will be on EBAY a few weeks later.

iron cobalt
#

Whose VR headsets? Those of the core team?

dark harness
#

It's possible we'd find out how long it takes between cheques bouncing and AWS shutting off service

#

I don't think there's much we could turn off to save money without badly impacting the core experience - search, maybe?

#

That would be silly, just... turn off search.

#

That being said, I've definitely been asked to audit server costs in lean times

white latch
#

"we dont need vrc+ just turn off search!"

iron cobalt
#

Lol.

cold quiver
#

just offer to sell vrchat to amazon, and in exchange amazon has product placements in vrchat vrcLaughing

iron cobalt
#

VRChat needs some recurring income, otherwise even the lowest server costs won't be low enough provided they are above 0.

dark harness
#

Maybe we're running a few more databases than we need here or there, or we can find a way to spend a little less on bandwidth by doing some weird magic.

white latch
#

blood rituals

dark harness
#

I have proposed clearing out 5.6 avatars. What are they even doing still hanging around?

#

It's never come to that, though, and it wouldn't save us much more money than it would cost to figure out how to do non-destructively

iron cobalt
cold quiver
#

...I have like a 100 of old 5.6 avatars

white latch
#

i have FINALLY gone through my avatars and removed a ton i dont even use anymore, after, like what? almost 3 years of playing this game?

still lark
white latch
#

I wish that the Content Manager still showed how many avatars you had uploaded

dark harness
#

The thing is, we were so small when 5.6 was a thing that if we cleared out all of that content we'd save, like, $75 a month

#

wooo

#

I mean, I guess it's money on the table, but

#

there are bigger fish

cold quiver
#

could probably start with clearing out those old future proof package files

obsidian herald
#

A little bit can make a huge difference from a business perspective

iron cobalt
#

Are all the old versions of my avatars permastored on the server?

That would be bad, as I currently have to upload every time I make a change to debug, as the Unity SDK's testing mode does not function properly on Linux due to being unable to find shell32.dll.

still lark
amber juniper
#

hm... what about a p2p system for avatar/world distribution? like a lot of games (and windows itself) now uses, to save bandwith on the server side?

dark harness
#

It's possible! We store a number of versions of every avatar. It's been a while since I've looked at the code - one of my talented co-workers was working on that a while back and now I think we do a little truncate a few versions back to keep the file sizes under control.

#

I think

#

no guarantees

iron cobalt
cold quiver
#

why do you even keep old versions of avatars?

dark harness
#

Well, there are a few reasons, most of them unbelievably stupid

amber juniper
iron cobalt
#

Good idea!

#

Torrents are cool. Great way to get Linux ISOs and all the versions of Big Buck Bunny.

amber juniper
#

the thing is just, p2p is much slower most of the time for small filesizes, because you need to create all those connections...

dark harness
#
  1. To allow users who've broken avatars to roll back to previous, working versions of those avatars (which we don't do)
  2. To allow us to diff versioned avatars and send users who have outdated versions only the diffs, thus using less bandwidth (we also don't do this)
  3. For a while, the SDK team would actually write different platforms of the same avatar as different versions of a single file record. I shouted at them until they stopped, but now there are some files in there where if we delete all of their previous versions, they will break - it's like a trap for too-diligent developers.
cold quiver
#

A means to save bandwidth would be to have all file downloads be the delta of the old and new file if the client still has the old version cached. Not sure how much bandwidth that would save overall given people clear their cache often. And given that your files are most likely just static endpoints, you'd have to add the processing to generate the delta somewhere and its probably not worth the hassle.
I see this was considered and never done (2)

dark harness
#

^ yup

#

We tried it and it turned out that processing deltas was more expensive than saving bandwidth

#

so now we have all of this versioning infrastructure and nothing to do with it

white latch
#

system @ the sdk team like: 🔪

still lark
#

the blood pipeline

dark harness
#

So far it's helped out exactly one time, when we accidentally deleted a whole mess of files when we weren't supposed to and I was like "what ho! the versions!"

obsidian herald
#

Oof!

white latch
#

ah, so thats what happened to my avatar

dark harness
#

No, your avatar was irretrievably corrupted by all of these magnets that we're trying to sell

cold quiver
#

I think I remember that incident

iron cobalt
#

Why are you selling magnets again?

amber juniper
white latch
#

Yeah I lost like, two avatars to it and never bothered to reuploading them

dark harness
#

Someone suggested we sell raw, unbranded magnets as merch and now that's part of our core business model

#

VRChat+, threadless shirts, and raw magnets

#

We are a magnet company first, a VR company second, now

white latch
#

gotta get money for the serverssomewhere

obsidian herald
#

I would buy a magnet for my fridge and car

vocal shard
#

Yeah sell us your cool hard drive magnets already love that stuff

dark harness
#

I need a clown who is also a rapper to explain to me how these magnets work, do you think that will be possible?

#

I hope something like that exists on the internet

white latch
#

probably

iron cobalt
#

Almost certainly. Many things exist online that are a lot more niche than that!

cold quiver
#

bet you could find a gig on fiverr for that

amber juniper
vocal shard
dark harness
#

welp

amber juniper
#

never underestimate the power of the internet

obsidian herald
#

Yes

blazing ginkgo
#

Heya guys!

#

I’m new to this server and have been recently playing VRChat! I’ve been enjoying it a lot besides the point that I get paranoid and have social anxiety around people I don’t know lol. But I’m sure VRChat is safe in terms of making sure that everyone has a socially safe experience. 🙂

iron cobalt
#

Just realised: Why have I been writing here on my tiny phone? My super nice computer setup is in literally the same room. So, I have switched to my computer.

#

I guess that's as close as you can get? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxAGHqsWTVk
@amber juniper Oh wow. Just watched the video after switching to my computer... And it is literally a rapping clown talking about magnets :O !

amber juniper
white latch
blazing ginkgo
#

So far I’ve been meeting some nice people! I also have a friend I know irl who plays it and he’s never had any trouble. Happy to be here!

iron cobalt
#

I often try to use my phone less, but pointlessly use it anyways. It is so tempting to be lazy and use the tiny computer I have on my all the time...

I have been making pretty good progress ever since I've been able to stay at home for everything.

blazing ginkgo
#

Thanks for the tips! I’ll definitely be sure to have good safety settings on.

iron cobalt
#

Yep! Just remember to use safety options and such. Don't be afraid to block anyone if they're making you uncomfortable.
@white latch Or just mute them...

I tend to prefer less draconian measures than blocks, because blocks stop someone from getting a second chance easily.

white latch
blazing ginkgo
#

True. My parents are also very careful in terms of making sure I stay safe while online. They’re always talking about predators and stuff even though it’s most likely that the game doesn’t have that. They’re just looking out for me though!

iron cobalt
#

Some people use blocks much more liberally, though, and then some people can be blocked unjustly.

amber juniper
dark harness
#

Don't assume that a game doesn't have predators! Be careful, never give your real name or address to someone in VRChat, and if someone makes you uncomfortable, block first and ask questions later.

amber juniper
#

even on my phone that I don't use that often, I have 86 tabs open in the browser >.>

vocal shard
cold quiver
#

513? vrcWOAH

blazing ginkgo
#

Yep! I’m definitely aware of that! I never share any personal information anyway so it’s all good! Thanks guys!

cold quiver
#

can i have some of your ram please

iron cobalt
#

well, I'm what you could call a "poweruser", I'm used to my three screens, and at the moment I have 36 Firefox windows with a grand total of 513 tabs open...
@amber juniper I'm also a power user, and usually have thousands of tabs open at any given time...

Only 5 Waterfox windows though. Occasionally my session crashes and I lose all (or most of) my tabs.

Tree Style Tabs is incredibly useful for organising all of them.

vocal shard
#

Can I download ram?

dark harness
#

I only have 49 tabs open, like a peasant

blazing ginkgo
#

Its definitely a good game for socializing especially during these troubling times in quarantine. I’ve heard a lot of good things about players who have anxiety and depression that have had great experiences with this game 🙂

amber juniper
# cold quiver 513? <:vrcWOAH:585749770463608861>

that's a low number... I've hit over 1000 in the past.
Sadly, ever since Firefox released their 64bit version for windows it got downhill. Before that I just waited until firefox crashed because it used 4GB of RAM, and I was back to square one...

iron cobalt
#

can i have some of your ram please
@cold quiver Usually, in these cases the tabs are cached from previous sessions, and remain unloaded until one clicks on them.

#

Its definitely a good game for socializing especially during these troubling times in quarantine. I’ve heard a lot of good things about players who have anxiety and depression that have had great experiences with this game 🙂
@blazing ginkgo I've never had nearly as many high-quality social interactions until VRChat. It is absolutely amazing.

amber juniper
#

the thing is, I actually have a plugin which prevents me from opening more than 20 tabs in window. Now I don't have three windows with each a hundred tabs, but dozens of windows with 20 tabs >.>

vocal shard
#

Would someone kindly send me 128 GB of ram? Thanks.

supple viper
dark harness
#

I built this computer specially to be able to run a lot of virtual machines simultaneously, on my own dime, because the kind of work I do tends to involve a lot of distributed systems communicating with one another, anyways, 48 threads and 256GB RAM later I'm starting to wonder if I maybe overprovisioned a little

blazing ginkgo
#

I suffer anxiety and depression myself and this game has definitely helped to distract me from those negative thoughts.

cold quiver
#

look at this man flex

amber juniper
iron cobalt
white latch
#

I don't understand how people have more than 5 tabs open at once unless they're like working on something... aaaa

dark harness
#

SERVERS ARE FOR LITTLE BABY, I RUN ENTIRE VRCHAT FROM ONE COMPUTER IN BASEMENT

white latch
#

Ah so that explains it

dark harness
#

snrk

snow wadi
#

Good Lord D:

vocal shard
#

This mans computer is a server

amber juniper
iron cobalt
#

My computer has 16 threads, though could be upgraded to 24. It supports up to 192GB of RAM, because my computer is technically a server, using a used server motherboard for the incredibly good value old Xeons use.

blazing ginkgo
#

Thanks for the good tips though guys! I’m happy to be here and I’ll be sure to stay safe! I hope you all stay safe and healthy as well during these times. 🙂

snow wadi
#

Xeons are so much fun to get at stupidly low prices.

white latch
iron cobalt
#

old monitors, but a an HMKB keyboard, I see you're a man of culture as well :3
@amber juniper Yes. I love the layout, and for everything in my setup, I love BIFL reliability.

blazing ginkgo
#

That’s amazing! I’m happy that it’s helped to improve!

white latch
#

Although people still think I'm British sometimes because I still have trouble with my Rs.

snow wadi
#

It's a wonder how many of them are still out there, in terrms of previous gens.

iron cobalt
#

That said, the price is very disproportionate compared to everything else, lol. I bought it as a replacement for my previous HHKB Lite2. But, I guess that is getting a bit off-topic.

amber juniper
iron cobalt
#

I wish I could repair my old HHKB Lite2, but they won't sell me a replacement cable for it :/ . The cable is the only thing broken.

amber juniper
white latch
vocal shard
dark harness
#

If you're curious what keeps the dev team warm on cold nights, it's stories where people overcame social anxiety by using VRChat, or stories where people met their loved ones through VRChat, or stories where people got to experiment with being whatever they wanted to be in VRChat and discovered themselves, or stories where people who were socially isolated got to hang out with friends in VRChat...
well, that and stupidly overpowered computers, which literally keep us warm

blazing ginkgo
#

Hearing all of this makes me so happy! I’m so happy you all were able to find comfort and strength through this game!

snow wadi
#

In desktop mode it's warm, VR on the other hand...

amber juniper
vocal shard
#

What percentage to overpowered computers and heartwarming stories keep you warm?

vocal shard
white latch
#

Ah, heartwarming stories to keep the devs from freezing in their socks?
Well, I kinda met a… dear friendvrcLove through VRChat. We're kind of awkward with each other but I still love him and vice versa.

dark harness
#

I only get, like, one heartwarming story every month or two, but that usually keeps me toasty for like an entire week, and then the rest is all raw computer exhaust and coffee

amber juniper
blazing ginkgo
#

Sometimes just thinking about the positive things about a game or other things can bring you a long way!

vocal shard
#

“My pc isn’t water cooled, it’s coffee cooled”

iron cobalt
#

just replace it o.O
@amber juniper That's why I have an HHKB Pro2. I just wish I could still make use of the old one as well.

muted wharf
#

cesThink 3am system

vocal shard
snow wadi
#

3am idle system?

blazing ginkgo
#

I have a gaming PC so it’s built to run a lot of games. I have a pretty high quality fan system in there to keep it cool.

amber juniper
vocal shard
#

NYX!!! Where are my beans?

muted wharf
#

beans

dark harness
#

It's not 3AM here, I'm on the west coast, it's only 1AM

amber juniper
#

Nyx!

blazing ginkgo
#

Lol we need more wholesome in the world so I just like being that source

snow wadi
#

It be 1pm here.

muted wharf
#

I forgot I live in a fake timezone, my bad

dark harness
#

I sat down to work and ended up getting distracted by discord

snow wadi
#

12 hours of maddening difference.

white latch
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Get to work 🔪 /joke

dark harness
#

THAT'S RIGHT, YOU'RE NOT GETTING USER ICON SUPER-FROSTING, A VERY REAL FEATURE THAT WAS DEFINITELY GOING TO EXIST, BECAUSE OF THIS VERY CONVERSATION

blazing ginkgo
#

Helping people is my passion really because I go through a bunch of stuff in my life that I don’t want anyone else going through.

dark harness
#

it's been struck from the schedule

snow wadi
#

I was about to ask ruu if you're usually available like this @dark harness .

white latch
#

OH NOOO!

snow wadi
vocal shard
hardy gulch
#

hi

amber juniper
blazing ginkgo
#

Haha no worries!

dark harness
#

Not usually, I've been more active on Discord lately because I really have my entire heart tied up in whether or not people like VRChat+ and seeing people come in and dunk on it and claim we're not paying attention made me sad, so I had to come in and defend my baby a little

#

I've been working on it since February

snow wadi
#

Rest assured I'm paying a year.

amber juniper
#

and I guess a lot of people are thankful for that

dark harness
#

every shitty thing that's happened in 2020, I've been hiding in a 150sqft office gradually going insane working on a feature and hoping that it might not go over TOO badly

snow wadi
#

I've been in vrc for 2+ free years.

obsidian herald
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I've been on since January 2018

vocal shard
#

I have more hours in VrChat than real life

blazing ginkgo
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I started like a month ago because one of my close friends plays it. Today was the first time I actually played it on my own though.

white latch
#

Definitely will be paying what I can. Y'all are the reason I'm earning money now, gotta pay some back!

next dune
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Lucky you announced it in the right time for me. Just got a raise from work. So now i can finaly support you guys 😄

obsidian herald
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I don't get that some people sleep in VR

white latch
snow wadi
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I started as a lost user who thought anime girls with guns are cool and had no clue what unity or blender was to a big bird that creates vrchat worlds.

vocal shard
blazing ginkgo
#

XD

supple viper
snow wadi
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And I'm still learning, optimizing, creating and improving..

blazing ginkgo
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Whatever keeps the players satisfied, right? 🤣

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It’s like a virtual sleepover tho lol

dark harness
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I tried sleeping in VR once - got blankets and a pillow, took my clothes off and anything. Anyways I'm no longer welcome at the VR Arcade Experience in Tacoma

vocal shard
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LOL

blazing ginkgo
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Oh noooo System lol

amber juniper
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xD

white latch
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I've become a god at avatar optimization, nobody can stop me now.

snow wadi
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What the bloody hell did you do lmao

next dune
#

xD

snow wadi
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I remember when I fell asleep in VR it costed me a Lenovo Explorer.

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The cable twisted and got loose internally.

vocal shard
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Lol who sleeps in vr? Must be some one with no life.
||I have no life.||

blazing ginkgo
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My friend fell asleep in VRChat and woke up with people surrounding him screaming at him 🤣

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They were all like, “WAKE TF UP”

vocal shard
#

Sounds about right

white latch
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tbh I've probably spent more time making avatars than actually playing the game. I only have like around 930 hours

dark harness
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I actually went through one work laptop, I think around our first Steam launch, because I kept developing in bed late at night and leaving the laptop next to the bed and one day I woke up at a weird hour and just fully crushed a Thinkpad with my foot

white latch
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Yikes

snow wadi
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How did you crush a thinkpad?!?

dark harness
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I stepped on it

vivid mortar
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i thought i would sleep in vr when i got full body tracking but you just lose tracking the second you roll over, not comfy

snow wadi
#

Those things are like tanks.

dark harness
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Broke the screen, bent the mobo a little

snow wadi
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Which one was it?

amber juniper
blazing ginkgo
#

Not the thinkpad 😫

amber juniper
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unless it's one of those newer ones... they are trash >.>

white latch
#

I'm assuming thinkpads are the laptop equivalent of a Nokia

snow wadi
#

Sorta yes.

amber juniper
dark harness
#

anyways, after that, I stopped keeping a thinkpad next to my bed - or, standing it up on its side against a wall. All I keep next to the bed now is a running George Foreman grill, which I use to heat up bacon that I'm going to eat for breakfast

blazing ginkgo
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Imma go to sleep guys since it’s like 4am here and I’m tired lol. Take care guys!

next dune
#

Night night ^^

snow wadi
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Just don't eat the laptop.

vocal shard
#

Funny story, I fell asleep in a public world once. My friends told Nyx but I woke up literally a minute before they told him. He teleported me to him to put me in my own private instance. He saw me moving and started freaking out like “o—uahh.. they told me you were sleeping, hold on I can fix this” then proceeded to run to where I was previously and teleport me back 😂🤣

white latch