#vrchat-general-2

1 messages · Page 1160 of 1

mild cradle
#

I want to apologize if I came off as too aggressive. I am truly sorry. I'm going to head to bed.

cloud sluice
#

took me about 800 hours, no world uploaded. A lot of avatars though, just because I tend to upload changes/fixes on new ids :p

daring seal
#

Nice.

waxen harness
grand gull
#

i hate being trusted

mild cradle
#

u really hurt my online feelings u big online bully!!!
@waxen harness I love you.

echo sigil
#

I'm clicking off of this server for a while. Have a nice night everyone! I didn't mean to give this game any hate. It's my most played game of all time. Just wish some things were handled better is all

daring seal
waxen harness
grand gull
#

known user is that perfect balance

mild cradle
#

I'm about to pay $10 a month for VRC+ to get u BANNED
@waxen harness 😮

forest estuary
#

i'll pay for vrc+ once the game is more optimized and has better security xd

cloud sluice
#

I want to apologize if I came off as too aggressive. I am truly sorry. I'm going to head to bed.
@mild cradle Good night.

I remember myself being in a similar spot when I got upset about all the breakage in the recent update... In the end I realized it wasn't something to get so upset over... (but not before needlessly arguing with a good friend :/)

waxen harness
vocal shard
#

i like this new reply feature in discord

daring seal
waxen harness
#

I've never looked at this discord until I saw that vrc+ tweet

daring seal
cloud sluice
#

Sometimes I wish I could appear as "Known User" despite being trusted, lol

grand gull
mild cradle
#

thank god someone agrees- honestly being trusted is kinda embarrassing, i wish you could show yourself as a known user and user since you've already been those two before
@grand gull You can-

vocal shard
#

also why do they limit trust for steam users

cloud sluice
#

I usually only come here to watch the announcements and open-beta-announcements...

waxen harness
echo sigil
#

^^^ Agreed on trusted should be able to show as knwon

grand gull
#

being shown as known user- no you cant??

analog schooner
#

In my opinion, what would be really unacceptable would be putting previously existing free features behind a pay-wall.

chrome hinge
#

you cAN

daring seal
mild cradle
#

being shown as known user- no you cant??
@grand gull Sorry, they said "and user."

vocal shard
grand gull
cloud sluice
#

In my opinion, what would be really unacceptable would be putting previously existing free features behind a pay-wall.
@analog schooner I don't really see any indication of this happening.

waxen harness
#

I feel like we've all become good friends in this chat

daring seal
#

always have been.

analog schooner
#

I sure hope not.

soft timber
#

it would be weird to hide as known user tbh
though i wouldnt like that idea...

mild cradle
#

my bad- i was trying to say like "i wish you could show yourself as known user, just like you can as user" oops
@grand gull Ohhh ok np. I'm gonna sleep because it's been 21 hours since I last slept and...I will let you in on a secret. I'm cranky.

grand gull
waxen harness
#

Okay everyone go to sleep, we will regroup in 10 hours to get back to screaming at vrc devs

night iris
#

i'm very glad they finally came up with a business model aimed at the players

vocal shard
#

@shell abyss fix your game

cloud sluice
#

aight. gonna go back to work

waxen harness
vocal shard
#

bored and no wifi

plain blaze
#

anyone got popcorn

vocal shard
stable trellis
vocal shard
#

@plain blaze i do

night iris
#

they now have a financially linked reason to care about our experience and our opinion of the goings on as players which is good

waxen harness
languid beacon
stuck swan
#

how do i get vrchat+ lol

cloud sluice
#

Maybe EU will actually realize this is a potential way to keep big social networkings claws out of VRC?

languid beacon
#

Trust colors are gone, that's a 10/10 for me

ocean arch
amber juniper
cloud sluice
#

hmm. I know some problem solving/mystery worlds that'll break when you don't know the order of the trust colors... (there was some question where that was important)

languid beacon
verbal birch
#

hiya

stuck swan
#

aw heck yea only 10.99 a mo sweet

abstract sand
#

oh boy

languid beacon
#

This is even LESS of a deal than when trust ranks came out lol

plain blaze
#

tbf, i just wanna be able to have to not worry about getting trolled in public lobbies

stuck swan
#

PrEmIuM AvAtArS

ocean arch
#

Premium avatars won't happen

cloud sluice
#

PrEmIuM AvAtArS
@stuck swan Is not going to be a thing

languid beacon
#

drama for that lasted 4 days... i'll give this one 2.

stable trellis
grizzled copper
#

Are the masses upset over vrchat+? I'm confuz

languid beacon
ocean arch
#

Because people are butthurt about a system that involves money

amber juniper
vocal shard
#

I'm going back to bed.

languid beacon
grizzled copper
#

Ah yes the masses, let us complain about giving money to a game you can play for free

amber juniper
cloud sluice
#

People are being paranoid over this? IMO you should be more paranoid when something is free of charge these days... (see: facebook, google, twitter, heck... discord too...)

(i.e. I'm very happy to pay if it means more indepence from big corps, and data gathering)

quartz jetty
#

I remember something about customized nametags being a bannable offense, that still a thing or is the vrc+ the be all end all in that case?

ocean arch
#

Yes

languid beacon
#

Most likely that TOS change was due to this upcoming stuff

rugged schooner
#

complaining is only justified if they restrict features to non vrc+ members, its merely a way to support the game

quartz jetty
#

Thought as much

ocean arch
#

You don't see people complaining about discord nitro tbh

strong blaze
#

^^^^

grizzled copper
#

How does vrchat pay for servers anywho? Their own money?

quartz jetty
#

If features are restricted before things are implemented, they might not be associated y'know

vocal shard
languid beacon
ocean arch
#

Oh that's actually dope

stable trellis
rugged schooner
ocean arch
vocal shard
#

Can't wait to see trashy E-Boys flex it lmao

vocal shard
quartz jetty
#

Nameplate opacity sounds neato

ocean arch
#

Well I'm subbing to it when it's out, and I'm subbing because I want to keep VRChat running

grizzled copper
#

^

rugged schooner
languid beacon
#

You can sub and keep your nameplate without an icon, if you want. vrcHappy

ocean arch
#

Yup

graceful sigil
#

Why is there no cap to uploaded avatars but a cap to favorite avatars? Isn't it much more storage intensive to hold a whole avatar than just store the id's of each players favorite avatars?

languid beacon
#

Avatar worlds would be pretty bad if they could only upload 16 avatars

quartz jetty
#

Doesn't the addition of a paid medium for an increase not void such reasoning?

graceful sigil
#

Yeah

sharp saddle
#

Good to see the spam-a-thon is finally over.

cloud sluice
#

The increase is only to the amount of public avatars you can favorite

quartz jetty
#

Indeed

graceful sigil
#

Yes, thats what we said

cloud sluice
#

After a while, you kind of want to upload your own customized avatar anyway.

ocean arch
#

My guess is that it's easier for the network to send information to you for personal avatars, whereas it takes more networking to send information for public avatars

quartz jetty
#

That may be the case but the case still stands

graceful sigil
#

Still why is there no limit to the number of avatars you can upload

languid beacon
#

Every public avatar is someone else's upload. The two are the same thing, really.

graceful sigil
#

@ocean arch Loading metadata for your avatars vs public avatars should be no different

cloud sluice
#

Nah, I doubt there's actually any technical difference between your own and public avatars.

languid beacon
#

If you own a avatar world, your upload category is PACKED.

stable trellis
#

There’s no strong incentive for vrc to limit user content creation, hence no upload limit

ocean arch
#

Maybe? I mean your personals will only show up in the world you're in, whereas publics can be loaded into any world

cloud sluice
#

Probably storage is cheap enough, and people aren't abusing the system at large?

graceful sigil
#

Then why is there a limit to favorite avatars?

quartz jetty
#

Technically you could have a local list of avatars you favorited that link to a specific string to said avatar data, making any storage negligible at best

languid beacon
brittle yacht
#

The real answer is it's been 16 favorites this long to make this update seem like it's mind blowing

graceful sigil
#

Why? Why should people need to upload their own content? The game is VRChat, not VRUnityAndBlender

ocean arch
waxen harness
#

If they made the limit 16+ on favorites, the game would blow up and your game would crash duh

languid beacon
#

When there were only 3 favorites, people wanted more. When it was upped to 16, people still wanted more. Trust me. Upping it to 25, and the next day, people will say they want more. lol

silver helm
#

the avatar favorites was just a artificial limitation. there is no reason why it would be 16

stable trellis
cloud sluice
#

Yeah, there was never really a technical limitation to it.
Still, I've been wanting to both: have at least some more public fav avatars + support this thing for a while now, so now I can do both at once, I guess. (Even non-paying users will get 25 slots now)

waxen harness
#

VRUnityAndBlender is a good name

quartz jetty
#

I was around 2017, the addition was a welcome one, progression not regression

ocean arch
#

Without avatar creators y'all would still be using the VRChat default avatars

soft timber
#

(looks at my 16 favorites)
(looks at my 50-ish uploaded avatars)
yup, id die if they set a limit to uploads

vocal shard
#

Not really liking the "Increased Trust" perk. Sounds like paying for ranks basically

languid beacon
graceful sigil
#

Yes but why should the average user be forced to upload their own avatars to go beyond the favorite limit?

brittle yacht
#

Yeah I mean you could update it to discourage the use of clients, this just seems like an encouragement

waxen harness
ocean arch
silver helm
languid beacon
#

And those people have 16 favorites.

graceful sigil
#

If favorites was unlimited, people would still upload avatars. Expecting people to not is just silly.

vocal shard
#

The real reason is because they can't make a good menu and having higher than 60 (average) avatars in the avatars menu would start to lag your game.

cloud sluice
#

Not really liking the "Increased Trust" perk. Sounds like paying for ranks basically
@vocal shard It is supposedly very little. Probably only to get you able to upload directly if your account is new.
Besides, someone having paid is more trustworthy. They have a monetary disincentive to being trolls, for one.

cunning gulch
#

I haven't even used all 16 slots, because I tend to use my own avatars

ocean arch
languid beacon
silver helm
graceful sigil
#

You need to know Unity, and even that is too much for people

quartz jetty
#

Uploads white png image

languid beacon
cloud sluice
#

The real reason is because they can't make a good menu and having higher than 60 (average) avatars in the avatars menu would start to lag your game.
@vocal shard Already have more than 60 in my own uploads... Usually works fine. Sometimes the earlier ones take a while to load, though

silver helm
ocean arch
#

You don't even need blender to make avatars. You can use Maya or max or whatever.

night iris
#

in my opinion they should paywall uploading avatars given it costs money to host and hold them, but taking away that feature would cause uproar so

languid beacon
vocal shard
silver helm
graceful sigil
#

Do what OTHER GAME does and make people pay a flat rate to upload more than 16 or so avatars

stable trellis
#

anybody who can install steamvr and vrchat can learn the necessary skills to download a premade avatar, stick it in unity, and upload it to vrchat. it's really not complicated. you dont need to be a 3D artist to put your own stuff in the game

night iris
quartz jetty
#

If such happened the game would literally plummet
@night iris

brittle yacht
#

Paywall adult content and piss off the erpers lol

abstract vault
#

in my opinion they should paywall uploading avatars given it costs money to host and hold them, but taking away that feature would cause uproar so
@night iris I agree. Convert your hard earned dollars into VRBux and use them to upload your content!

languid beacon
vocal shard
#

who is talking about modeling. 3d is 3d
"Oh god, I can't play CS:GO because it is 3D Goddamn!!"

stable trellis
ocean arch
waxen harness
cloud sluice
#

VRChat is a good opportunity to learn unity :3

graceful sigil
#

I'm not talking about this game, I'm talking about OTHER GAME

abstract vault
#

Don't forget the $10 subscription fee to use the SDK!

languid beacon
silver helm
#

god. language is a hard thing to make other to understand. So is a common way to describe it in my language ok.

ocean arch
graceful sigil
#

If you need to upload more than 16 or 25 avatars you are clearly invested in the game. If you need to favorite more than 25 you are just a casual player that wants avatars

stable trellis
languid beacon
graceful sigil
waxen harness
#

They should just fuck around and make VRC a $60 game

cunning gulch
#

I'm just wondering if the subscription gets tied to the VRC account, or the Steam account, because I have 2 accounts for testing avatars, and fallback shaders, and alternate between them on occasion

languid beacon
night iris
#

running servers costs money. running hosting space costs money. Development costs money. It's reality my dude

ocean arch
stable trellis
graceful sigil
#

Like making people pay to upload more than 25 avatars makes WAY more sense than making people pay to access more already uploaded avatars

cloud sluice
#

Would be nice to be able to pay to have a way to manage sub-accounts, tbh. Useful to be able to create sub-accounts to host events etc.
Although maybe with the coming guilds system...?

languid beacon
#

People who upload content are doing VRChat a service by providing content for other people to enjoy. This is why there is no limit.

graceful sigil
#

So why is there a favorite limit? And why is there private avatars?

vocal shard
#

because ron said so

ocean arch
#

There is a limit because server stability

stable trellis
languid beacon
#

The limit has nothing to do with server stability.

cloud sluice
#

The favorite limit is artificial. But it has it's reasons, and they have been stated.

cunning gulch
#

Private avatars make sense, the limit...eh

silver helm
graceful sigil
#

No they arent

ocean arch
languid beacon
cloud sluice
#

^

graceful sigil
#

That seems so backwards that its stupid. Why force people to make their own stuff? Like I said, it's VRChat, not VR3DContentCreationn

night iris
#

they probably tiptoed with monetization to try and not cause huge amounts of uproar. by picking things which are currently not already given they ain't stepping on the toes of the public experience

stable trellis
abstract vault
#

Clearly you haven't been reading announcements
@ocean arch I'm in the secret discord for uber cool people who get to see the plans for VRChat's future, I don't need to reread announcements.

cunning gulch
languid beacon
waxen harness
#

Listen my man Adeon has a green rank, we are all dumb and should agree with him

graceful sigil
#

^

waxen harness
ocean arch
cloud sluice
#

Personally I think people would still check out avatar worlds... but I'm not in charge of this thing.

graceful sigil
#

Some people just want to play the game and have a large selection of avatars to choose from, not be forced to learn unity and blender. Uploading avatars is a choice that shouldnt need a limit to encourage

rigid crescent
#

25 is a pretty large selection

stable trellis
abstract vault
#

So basically the official fake rumours server. Got it
@ocean arch Well it's only officially fake if VRChat says so.

languid beacon
graceful sigil
cloud sluice
#

It does encourage people to upload, though. I made my first uploads because I had to free favorite slots

rigid crescent
#

Just an incentive for people who want more than 25.

west yoke
#

tbh I've always found getting attached to public avatars made by users other than you a bit odd.
Those avatars can disappear at any time for any reason, but if you made it you likely have the files to reupload it if something goes wrong.

soft timber
#

The hardest part about uploading content is having/creating the model itself tbh.. it’s easy to upload in Unity.

ocean arch
cloud sluice
#

If so, why does paying get you more slots?
@graceful sigil Just a bonus for supporting the thing.

graceful sigil
stable trellis
languid beacon
# graceful sigil If so, why does paying get you more slots?

Because rather than contributing to help VRChat by uploading content, you are paying them money. For this reason, the need to limit favorite avatars (to encourage you to upload your own) is no longer needed, as you are helping the game in another way (money). I feel you already know the answer to all of these questions, however.

silver helm
cloud sluice
#

Okay? Then explain how they are going to get around Intellectual Property allegations by corporations like EA and Ubisoft?
@ocean arch Being monetized doesn't change their legal standing in any way. They are already accepting DMCA claims, and have been for a long while. I can only guess that it's still underground enough that the likes of EA haven't cared yet.

graceful sigil
ocean arch
#

@cloud sluice no the guy is talking about paywalled avatars

abstract vault
#

Okay? Then explain how they are going to get around Intellectual Property allegations by corporations like EA and Ubisoft?
@ocean arch Oh that's easy, see they're planning to sell to EA and Ubisoft so we can get cool lootboxes and I can't keep this up I'm laughing too hard.

rigid crescent
#

Booth, Gumroad, etc.

stable trellis
ocean arch
graceful sigil
rigid crescent
#

Yeah, I've been using one for well over a year now, they're pretty nice. Easy to modify too depending on the content creators have made for the model.

waxen harness
#

VRC lootboxes, the rarest model you can get has toggle clothes and shit

abstract vault
#

Okay well you see I specialise in that industry so I find you very hard to believe
@ocean arch You didn't read the whole sentence.

cloud sluice
#

Yes, paying the creators is to be expected, I think. Honestly, most paid avatars are actually really cheap, considering the amount of work that goes into them... Then again there are others of really high quality that are completely free, and CC0 and stuff. There's lots to chose from!

rigid crescent
#

Good thing you can still do that lol 25 favorits is more than enough honestly.

cold verge
#

I don't think that the game is on the position to "take" a fixed fee into a premium service, specially when you don't make the content of the game you only provide the platform, as apple with the apple store or steam, first release the game out of beta for that. Meanwhile you can ask for support, from 1$ to unlimited, and that way the community will support you.
That's mostly my take as a creator.

graceful sigil
#

So then why have an increased limit for paying? It all comes back to that

ivory spoke
cunning gulch
#

The amount of people out there that know Unity and Blender thanks to VRChat is cool. It really isn't hard to learn, maybe like, a couple of weeks to get used to it, improving over time. Worth learning really

languid beacon
#

I'd like to confirm that I talked to Tupper about adding lootboxes to VRChat. One of the possible loot would have been more favorite slots. I'd also like to clarify it was entirely me doing the talking, he was just standing there.

rigid crescent
#

You've been answered multiple times. It's an incentive lol

ocean arch
#

If you don't want to learn it, you'd be happy to know people do commission work

cloud sluice
#

If anything, I'd like to see VRC get better at supporting the smaller creators when their for sale avatars get made into public avatars when they shouldn't according to the contract...

graceful sigil
#

Then I do not agree that you should have to pay for that particular incentive

stable trellis
brittle yacht
#

I mean I guess this is better than allowing advertising and product placement in the game. I'd rather have users who are willing to support the game paying the devs than some corporation. They gotta get paid somehow.

soft timber
#

25 is a damn upgrade, im content with it. having to struggle between an odd 16 favorites list is pain

rigid crescent
#

OK that's fine. You're wrong, but go ahead lol 25 is plenty of favorites, you really don't need that many

graceful sigil
ocean arch
#

I mean, honestly I've been happy with 15 avatars and I make avatars anyway so it doesn't matter much to me

languid beacon
#

People whined over 3 favorite slots, then they whined over 16. They will whine about 25 too. It will never end lol

stable trellis
rigid crescent
#

Probably multiple reasons. Incentivizes looking at worlds, maybe server space or something

waxen harness
quartz jetty
#

The new increase in favorites is nice but the reasoning behind its initial and continued restriction is odd at best, atleast from the pool of people i'm aware of, restricting general ease of access to avatars has at worse just made them quickly revisit old worlds rather than make their own content, but that's just my two cents

languid beacon
graceful sigil
potent fern
#

i missed a part, did anyone from the VRC team said anything about this in the last 30 min?

waxen harness
rigid crescent
#

A lot of thigns don't make sense to the average player, the average player is honestly pretty stupid

languid beacon
ocean arch
#

@potent fern not in this channel, no. Announcements is what you're after

graceful sigil
soft timber
#

i feel like (said average) people who arent on the vrc discord are gonna suddenly see 25 favorite slots and cheer

umbral reef
rigid crescent
#

true true

stable trellis
potent fern
#

ok, so no response yet. got it.

rigid crescent
#

Most people genuinely don't care and just wanna hang out in an avatar and go to worlds. That's the bare minimum VRChat really needs to offer and it does so fairly well.

languid beacon
graceful sigil
ocean arch
rigid crescent
#

"The average player wants more avatar slots" and they're getting them, neato! Looks like the average player is getting what they want lol

graceful sigil
#

but why have a restriction in the first place? No one wants to be forced to make their own avatars

languid beacon
#

To be fair I think most of the people who cared posted a lemon and got kicked for spam

rigid crescent
#

You've been answered.Explore worlds, server space stuff, etc

stable trellis
languid beacon
#

He's asked the same question like 6 times now lol

ocean arch
#

Yeah I mean there's like . What? 40k roughly online here so I don't think the majority cares anyway about this

rigid crescent
#

and the incentivizing uploading avatars, yeah

graceful sigil
stable trellis
ocean arch
grand zenith
#

So whats the problem now?

graceful sigil
#

People who want to upload avatars have already uploaded them, there's no reason to incentivize it

languid beacon
#

Content creators didn't really have a problem with favorites. They didn't like cloning.

vocal shard
#

I'm just worried about what they mean with "monetizing VRChat". I think it's nice that they might be trying to help model and world creators get boosted/ease the commissioning process but that'll be hard to manage since a lot of "commissions" are just game rips or TDA models that they really shouldn't be for sale (TDA rules say you can't mainly because of Piapro/Hatsune Miku rules). Alternatively it could mean they might be butting world/avatar uploads behind a paywall which makes legal issues for them either way unless they're very police-y about what is uploaded/monetized for VRC.. Only reason why people like Nintendo haven't sued yet is because the game is free and uploading the content (aka mods) are free.

waxen harness
abstract vault
#

@vocal shard I hope you like ads.

silver helm
grand zenith
#

@waxen harness lmao

stable trellis
vocal shard
#

If they mean ads, yikes.

languid beacon
graceful sigil
ocean arch
#

What they mean by monetizing is "keeping the game alive", @vocal shard. What they have announced will not change your experience drastically at all, but are extra benefits like that of Discord Nitro.

vocal shard
#

For now, anyways. They said it's the first step in the article.

#

I have a quick question about that new subscription though, is it based on account or is it per steam? I got two accounts that I use and would like the benefits on both.

grand zenith
#

So the 10 mil sponsor is dead already 👀

vocal shard
#

used for japan trip

ocean arch
#

HTC pulled out a while ago, so yes

languid beacon
vocal shard
#

Kk

#

I think $10 a month is a bit much for what's on offer right now; I'd be cozy paying like $5 or so. As long as they don't lock avatar/world uploading behind a paywall I'll probably still log into the game, VRC+ or not.

plush vapor
#

wtih vrc + is like thw whole know and trusted user thing going?

graceful sigil
#

Well anyway enough arguing, I really don't understand why you guys think that inconveniencing most casual players just so an interested few will upload their own is a good decision, and I will never understand

languid beacon
rigid crescent
#

You've been given multiple answers. You stupidly stick to the ONE answer you don't like. Shut up already man

vocal shard
#

^

ocean arch
soft timber
#

i learned how to upload because the avatars out there that i did like didn’t have any gesture emotes nothing, they just existed and nothing else
being able to customize avatars yourself to whatever you virtually want is nice

plush vapor
#

rip i only got my known two days ago

vocal shard
#

Meant that for Adeon's comment, thank god rank names are gone, most idiotic thing they ever put in the game imo, imagine giving out different colors based on trust, lol

graceful sigil
teal glacier
#

I'm just worried about what they mean with "monetizing VRChat". I think it's nice that they might be trying to help model and world creators get boosted/ease the commissioning process but that'll be hard to manage since a lot of "commissions" are just game rips or TDA models that they really shouldn't be for sale (TDA rules say you can't mainly because of Piapro/Hatsune Miku rules). Alternatively it could mean they might be butting world/avatar uploads behind a paywall which makes legal issues for them either way unless they're very police-y about what is uploaded/monetized for VRC.. Only reason why people like Nintendo haven't sued yet is because the game is free and uploading the content (aka mods) are free.
time to wipe a good chunk of content from the game and ban the people who uploaded it
to avoid getting sued!

rigid crescent
#

Your dispute is anecdotal at best.

quartz jetty
#

Rank colors being gone is a blessing

vocal shard
#

Again. With discord nitro it was 10 originally but over time they made an option for 5 instead. I wouldn't be surprised the idea might come into mind for them with a "Classic" approach
@ocean arch Yep, hopefully they do that or simply lower the price. I think most people would be cozier with $5 for what's on offer rn unless they add more stuff that's more worth the price.

plush vapor
#

so is the trust system going aswell or just nameplates?

graceful sigil
ocean arch
#

Trust system isn't going anywhere. It's useless anyway except for new user and visitor for security

stable trellis
vocal shard
#

time to wipe a good chunk of content from the game and ban the people who uploaded it
to avoid getting sued!
@teal glacier God, if that happened it'd be the end of the game lol; hopefully no paywall locks will ever happen.. literally all the e-person fox tda models will get thanos snapped

languid beacon
ocean arch
grand zenith
#

I mean there's going to be people who replace Trusted rank vs paid rank as an ego flex to shit on others

stable trellis
rigid crescent
#

The only time they'd be forced to wipe content is if a DMCA happened and companies would likely need to DMCA each player/avatar one by one

ocean arch
vocal shard
#

Or rather, rank colors*
But I do agree that the price should be 5 bucks for the current iteration of the system, if it's supposed to be a subscription then you gotta get your money's worth. You can have the current system as vrchat + and the next one with more features could be 10 bucks as well as a higher tier, give ppl some choice

grand zenith
#

Fair

rigid crescent
#

I'll pay the 10 for the early supporter clout 🙃

plush vapor
#

imj ust wondering cause i do a lil bit of streaming and just yea had crap time with user and new users not knowing bout what lewd or nsfw avatars theyve got out and it ending with me getting a warning, so to be able to hide vis and new avtars is kinda helpful there

vocal shard
#

The only time they'd be forced to wipe content is if a DMCA happened and companies would likely need to DMCA each player/avatar one by one
@rigid crescent True, it's possible that companies may just go to VRChat and tell them content from their games are a no-no. Stuff like Nintendo content is pretty easy to spot. Either way, if the avatar paywall happens, it's going to be a nightmare.

#

I mean, I'll pay it too, but if I were to look at it from a critical pov then there's no way the current features are worth 10 bucks a month.

ocean arch
#

I mean I paid early for nitro and it ended up for me with an early supporter badge. I don't mind the 10 anyway

karmic rose
#

Honestly, I'd pay 10$ a month for them to just fix the current Master bug that sticks the master in a random chair, or for a revamp of the camera. XP I don't need anything else. Thaaaaanks lol

stable trellis
crimson apex
#

You get a lot out of nitro tho for $10 on discord

ocean arch
waxen harness
#

Discord nitro is so good for the livestream by itself

plush vapor
#

okay cools

vocal shard
#

I think the better idea would be to copy Discord's sub model, you have a 5 dollar tier and a 10 dollar tier. The thing is that on the site it said "More features coming later" but "later" in vrchat language can usually take a year or two, I'd say there's more pressure on them to put out stuff it people are paying for it.

#

I just wonder what the heck else they can add besides a potential "ad-free" version or more avatar slots

quartz jetty
#

I just hope content isn't restricted to then turn around as a premium feature, much like i feel custom nameplates turned out to be in its own way

carmine zephyr
#

just throwing my opinion into the ring: I come from Second Life, and we have to pay a lot more there than in VRChat, and with less features. I previously was running a Sim (persistant world) for $215, and that was on a DISCOUNT. I've since sold my sim and am not spending $215+$10 (preimum), and seeing thsi isn't that bad

ocean arch
#

I wouldn't be surprised they'll do it later. Again really they announced theyll be adding more to VRC+ over time so give it some time

carmine zephyr
ocean arch
vocal shard
#

I expected nameplates to become a monetized thing after they cracked down on stuff that edits your nameplate

teal glacier
#

@teal glacier God, if that happened it'd be the end of the game lol; hopefully no paywall locks will ever happen.. literally all the e-person fox tda models will get thanos snapped
@vocal shard
i mean, they're either gonna lose alot of money from lawsuits or they're gonna have to purge all that content, either way it's bad
makes me wonder if they discussed this with a legal team of sorts

umbral reef
crimson apex
#

I don't think anything will really happen to vrc

quartz jetty
#

I expected nameplates to become a monetized thing after they cracked down on stuff that edits your nameplate
@vocal shard
Same tbh

ocean arch
#

The new nameplates are more compact and nice honestly. Keeps places like room of the rain not filled with multi-coloured boxes in the air

carmine zephyr
#

at the very least, I'd rather VRChat attempt to earn their own money rather than the alternative, and that is being bought out by Facebook, Microsoft, or whoever wants to open their pocketbooks

vocal shard
#

@vocal shard
i mean, they're either gonna lose alot of money from lawsuits or they're gonna have to purge all that content, either way it's bad
makes me wonder if they discussed this with a legal team of sorts
@teal glacier That's only if the avatar paywall happens; as long as the content is free to upload and use (unless officially endorsed by the company) it should be alright. If they do this, they'll have to purge the content or endure lawsuits like you said. If they introduce some sort of commission feature, it'll also have to be heavily regulated to make sure the content is 100% OK to be monetized.

ivory spoke
stoic saddle
#

Oh no... VRChat wants a little money to fix the things everyone has screamed about being broken...

ocean arch
karmic rose
#

Actual curious post: They stated you can take a photo in game, or upload a photo to use as a tag. What kind of Abuse prevention could there be for this? this game is already fairly lewded by people. How long until I see red rockets and bewbz on peoples tags?

vocal shard
#

I've always wanted to support the VRC team, but I do think they just opened a can of worms for themselves, because now people will expect regular updates, considering there'll be a sub model, which is not something we've had before (Both the sub and regular updates)

So I do think it was a risky move

worthy oracle
#

you guys have to admit the new nameplates are clean af though

carmine zephyr
teal glacier
#

@teal glacier That's only if the avatar paywall happens; as long as the content is free to upload and use (unless officially endorsed by the company) it should be alright. If they do this, they'll have to purge the content or endure lawsuits like you said. If they introduce some sort of commission feature, it'll also have to be heavily regulated to make sure the content is 100% OK to be monetized.
@vocal shard
Hmm, fair, i was under the impression that monetizing the game was enough to set off the copyright problem 🤔
learn something new every day

vocal shard
#

IMVU is also really pricy, I used to play that myself. The difference is that you're paying IMVU creators directly with credits/currency that's exchanged for real money, and the only money the website/app gets is from premium features which had a lot of content behind them. You'd get free stuff from buying credits as well. Also IMVU content is usually 100% original, copyright stuff got taken off the game pretty often

carmine zephyr
stoic saddle
#

People are really mad about this whole optional thing you can choose not to pay for?

ocean arch
#

Yeah but if you're in Australia running a small indie company, the pay is down to you and if you can't support it, then you're screwed.

night slate
#

Yay controversy!

vocal shard
#

Garry's mod is a buy to play game and I don't think I've heard about any cases where they ran into copyright issues

quartz jetty
#

New nameplates are pretty nice, though personal non-monetary customization would be in my best interest, but i digress

vocal shard
#

@vocal shard
Hmm, fair, i was under the impression that monetizing the game was enough to set off the copyright problem 🤔
learn something new every day
@teal glacier If that were true, it'd mean that games like L4D2 would be in big trouble for copyright infringement too

carmine zephyr
ocean arch
vital ivy
#

Can anyone give me more details about this whole vrchat plus stuff? Like what's this actually changing other than whats showed in the video?

umbral reef
heady salmon
#

humans will be humans

stable trellis
#

waiting for ui update so my VRC+ subscription grants me access to dark mode vrcSunglasses

humble moth
#

🍞

carmine zephyr
teal glacier
#

@teal glacier If that were true, it'd mean that games like L4D2 would be in big trouble for copyright infringement too
@vocal shard
fair game, thank you!

vocal shard
#

I think people are just mad because the $10/month price for so little (right now) is a ripoff, and others are wondering if this means that the game will continue to become monetized. ie advertisements or avatar/world upload paywalls

umbral reef
vocal shard
#

i'm definitely more scared about avatars and worlds costing money to upload in the future bc copyright and also i am a broke bitch, it'd kill the game if they did that

stoic saddle
vocal shard
#

Ofc, the only ones that are mad about this are the usual 16 year olds that have no money to spend. But I like everyone else would expect more regular updates being made to the game after a monetized system gets put into the game.

stable trellis
#

but yeah dont get VRC+ on the promise of future features, buy it if you want to support the game monetarily and to a lesser extent if you like the few features it offers now. if not just keep playin' the game for free normally 🤷‍♂️

quartz jetty
#

I'm scared of legal implications and possible feature cutoff to reinforce payments

heady salmon
#

Human beings are pretty toxic about everything in general, so

humble moth
#

🍞

vital ivy
vocal shard
#

my thoughts exactly @quartz jetty

umbral reef
hidden sage
#

I like the idea of VRChat+ but the pricetag at the moment is way too high for what it offers. New nametags and more favorite slots are always welcome tbh

vocal shard
#

I ain’t no simp !

carmine zephyr
#

....so... just for the record, there are other places other than VRChat... who also have montetization options... and don't have feature cutoffs as a result. I doubt VRChat will fall into the wrong boat

stoic saddle
#

Oh no, how dare them try to get money to fix the things that are broken

vocal shard
#

I think vrchat should have a donation thing

hidden sage
#

I kinda wonder what happens to the favorited avatars after the subscription expires

stable trellis
#

if you dont want to pay money for an early access game, dont spend money on it; its that easy. its still free and receiving free updates

night slate
#

Fix things? They think nothings wrong!

quartz jetty
#

I have mentioned nametag customization, as small as it is, it was cutoff and added as a premium feature

carmine zephyr
#

I reget to say I forget their name (forgive me, I think it was George), but I did speak to a VRC higher up, and they really know their stuff and are very professional. I doubt they'd want to upset people, so I doubt feature cutoffs would be a thing

stoic saddle
umbral reef
vocal shard
#

Your right

#

bottom line, as long as content uploading/creation stays free, i'll keep playing and maybe support it if vrc+ has more features (that don't impact the experience/used to be free) later justifying the $10 tag. i like the new nameplates, hopefully there's still a speech indicator when people talk cause i'm hard of hearing and it helps me notice whos speaking lol can anyone on the beta tell me if this is true?

sharp stream
#

VRChat fixing things? whos gonna tell em?

Oh no, how dare them try to get money to fix the things that are broken
@stoic saddle

stable trellis
vocal shard
#

Bug fixes are -not- new content

night slate
#

I doubt that

rugged schooner
#

if you like the game then use it to support it, if not, don't. your money, do what you please

feral obsidian
heady salmon
#

donating 20 dollars a month cause you feel obligated isnt the same as donating 100 dollar once cause you want to. bug fixes are still updates too.

vocal shard
#

Give us new features !

stable trellis
indigo seal
stoic saddle
vocal shard
#

Give us new shit Idc what the fuck it is GIVE US SOMETHING

umbral reef
#

@vocal shard Did you even look at Udon and Av3 or the new camera stuff so far?

carmine zephyr
feral obsidian
#

Subscription offers predictable income by end of month, and some form of predictability is better than nothing.

thorn latch
#

"Wanna upload your own avatars and worlds? Get vrchat+!"

timid cairn
#

Wait the subscription is $20 a month?????

indigo seal
#

no, $10

hidden sage
#

As long as they dont make any VRChat+ exclusive lobbies and maps or paywall any excisting stuff im gonna continue playing

rugged schooner
vocal shard
#

it'd be nice if they used the vrc+ money to hire modders to help improve the game, if some of the more popular client features i've heard about are implemented it'd be really cool

umbral reef
vocal shard
#

Arvu, you cannot defend the team from everything, there's legit criticism that you cannot brush off that a majority of the regular players have had problems with.

silver helm
#

so what happen if you stop paying for vrc+? they remove all yout 25+ avatars?

indigo seal
quartz jetty
#

If content uploading is ever paywalled, that's when i'll jump ship for sure

ivory spoke
rugged schooner
umbral reef
carmine zephyr
hidden sage
grand zenith
#

I guess people forgot to read
As always, the core experience of playing VRChat remains free. The VRChat+ subscription is a way for you to show your support to VRChat, and get some cool bonuses as our way of saying thanks.

vocal shard
#

Nah, I don't think VRC+ worlds are a good idea at all

indigo seal
carmine zephyr
night slate
#

And extra money

feral obsidian
#

Password protected VRChat+ Lobby

smoky spear
stoic saddle
summer siren
#

so ... vrchat+ ouch

indigo seal
quartz jetty
#

Technically that was a thing before
@feral obsidian

feral obsidian
#

Huh, the more you know

carmine zephyr
grand zenith
vocal shard
#

Oh yeah, I agree, I want to and will support the vrchat team, I've asked about a way to support them for 2-3 years now that is not merch related ofc

#

ok but when are the marketable vrpill plushies coming out

umbral reef
#

I fucking love it when people go ' oh no i dont fall into that group i still hate it' but dont say why 👀

feral obsidian
#

Mail cash to their PO box

cold talon
#

vrc+ only worlds yes yes yes

carmine zephyr
heady salmon
#

marketable default avatar plushie

potent fern
#

They got at least 15 million so far. Its hard for me to know because im not a game dev but is this what a 15 million game feels like?

vocal shard
#

marketable nikei plushie

#

Maurice plushie, lmao

quartz jetty
#

Every private room has its own generated password, and before you could generate an instance with your own, sadly it's no longer possible
@feral obsidian

vocal shard
#

marketable nikei plushie says "is that a custom avatar" and "is that a custom vrchat plushie" when you squeeze his hand

#

I have a business idea for them, so we can create avatars and upload them, right.
VRChat build a plushie, let's go

smoky spear
# carmine zephyr So... don't get it then. It's optional.

That's really not a valid argument. Game developers employ psychologists for many reasons, one of which is to ensure that their schemes of monetization are as effective at getting people to buy them as possible. The big names are extremely guilty of this, and the same argument is often used to defend their skins. "It's optional" doesn't really apply when they're locking desired content behind the paywall. People have been requesting more favourite slots (which costs them literally nothing, for the record, and is a simple bump of an arbitrary number) since the favouriting system was added.

heady salmon
#

build-an-avatar workshop!

umbral reef
#

@potent fern That honestly feels like an bad faith question. But running an company tha tis scaling up is extremely expensive. Same applies to server costs and reworking systems. They cant just throw money at things to solve a problem as they dont have incomes yet.
Normally in the buisness world this type of money comes with rules of what the team needs to do (think of making Udon, Av3 or even VRC+ as an example)

They might need this amount of money to run the company for years and years until they are making a profit.

feral obsidian
indigo seal
umbral reef
smoky spear
night slate
#

So.... when are the devs gonna listen to Quality Assurance?

ivory spoke
smoky spear
vocal shard
#

Like I said earlier though, once you add in a monetization system to the game, knowing the vrchat players, people will get more demanding for more frequent updates, and I too would ofc be in that category.
Every other sub model has new content coming to it on a regular basis so this I would expect from the monetization here too.

umbral reef
#

Ah shit i forgot the game only gave us polished tools to make advanced avatars and worlds

feral obsidian
#

The base software needed for making an avatar has a mandatory subscription in itself

frosty veldt
#

Bro is AV3 even real 😔

grand zenith
stable trellis
umbral reef
graceful pewter
#

neither Unity or blender has a mandatory subscription

heady salmon
#

lol what. even a broke idiot like me has blender.

smoky spear
#

I think there would be much less backlash if they hadn't added two incredibly basic features behind the paywall and instead left it as just a subscription to support them

vocal shard
#

unity is free unless you plan on making a game or something

quartz jetty
#

I assume you mean a license?

feral obsidian
#

Ah, I missed 20 pages of avatar creation then

crystal zephyr
#

no its still free, unless you make over 100k a month

carmine zephyr
# smoky spear That's really not a valid argument. Game developers employ psychologists for man...

And you GOT more free slots for favorites. I used to work for a competing service, and honestly you are analyzing way too deep on this one. This isn't the same as skins, because skins are already on your system and a boolean flag says "Yes can use or No cannot." This is custom models and content, hosted on their servers, being sent to everyone. Space isn't free, bandwidth isn't free, and running the servers isn't free.
So yeah, it's optional. By a long mile. The most I can think of is the icon/nametag thing being a bit of an odd cutoff, considering that images usually don't use a lot of space, but who knows what may change in the future.

grand zenith
heady salmon
#

even then its still free unless your game makes a large enough amount of money from its sales, shadra

feral obsidian
#

I only read up the official FAQ and ended up with needing a license

vocal shard
#

ah wasnt 100% on that, regardless it's still free unless you're planning on some big fat stacks

#

The nameplate thing didn't surprise me so I expected that, I think that's fair, I just hope this means that all trust system nameplates are being removed and we all go back to having the same colored nameplate (apart from vrc+ subs ofc)

potent fern
graceful pewter
#

vroid studio is also completely free

quartz jetty
#

You do need a license for unity, though it can be a free one

smoky spear
dark harness
#

I would like to personally assure everyone that VRChat has never employed a psychologist, or even someone who would pass muster with one

grand zenith
#

Wait someone actually thought that

feral obsidian
#

I guess I'm going back to drawing up my own avatar, so which software do I pick up?

quartz jetty
#

Blendor

cold talon
vocal shard
#

I only read up the official FAQ and ended up with needing a license
@feral obsidian some things needed in avatar creation do require payment, like dynamic bones and some shaders or models; but unity/blender are free -- some other modeling programs (metasequoia, maya, 3dsmax) are paid and some alternatives are also free (vroid, pmx editor, hitogata). i'd recommend blender, vroid, or pmxeditor for beginners; unity is absolutely required to upload so grab the right version

grand zenith
#

Bruh when you reach a point where one of the dev's has to actually come out and say something xD

feral obsidian
#

Ah yes, Blendor

smoky spear
graceful pewter
#

vroid studio also probably work if you want an Anime Avatar

vocal shard
#

what’s up with the lemons? why are people posting lemons? I’m so confused

dark harness
#

I'm actually three psychologists in a coat, stacked up so that we can get into R-rated movies

queen cape
carmine zephyr
rigid crescent
#

Can my VRC+ money go towards hiring a therapist to spend like 6 hours ingame while they come up with an award winning thesis on VR weirdos

vocal shard
#

what’s up with the lemons? why are people posting lemons? I’m so confused
@vocal shard some sort of spam-protest i gather

cold talon
#

I KNEW IT!

umbral reef
# potent fern Its an Honest question because I have no idea how those things cost, server upke...

Its a full company so there goal in the end should be making money. Unless they plan to get bought up by an larger company, but even then the normal end goal is making a profit.
People buying headsets to play Vrchat doesnt give money to VRC, it sadly gives money only to facebook or steam (or what other company you buy it from).
At best VRC might get some technical support or a free VRC headset to test there game on because its so big, but a free headset once a year wont keep the company running.

vocal shard
#

wait nvm i know what it is lmfao

umbral reef
vocal shard
#

Ikr, vrchat has basically just been making Oculus, Valve and Vive more money, lmao

feral obsidian
#

Not having full access still bothers me a bit, especially shaders
I'll poke around vroid

rigid crescent
#

I really liked that one journo that wrote something last year

quartz jetty
#

Shaders are mostly fully accessible

smoky spear
#

I honestly probably would have subscribed if there weren't any features locked behind it and it was fully just to support the development of the game. I'm subbed to a bunch of Patreons for that reason

graceful pewter
#

you can still use whatever shaders you like in unity within reason

vocal shard
#

@feral obsidian the best free shaders are poyomi, silent, and yes even standard.. dynamic bones is on sale right now iirc

exotic obsidian
#

how's this chat doing?

indigo seal
vocal shard
#

why is vrchat+ pay to win, gives you increased trust :/

rigid crescent
#

It started out looking like a slam piece but then they were like "lol honestly these dudes are just a bunch of weirdos they're not that bad afte rall"

umbral reef
vocal shard
#

"pay to win"
Win what exactly ? you just talk and shitpost in the game

ivory spoke
exotic obsidian
#

vrc64

vocal shard
#

it's a joke bro

indigo seal
stable trellis
#

VRC+ increases your competitive friendship ELO, you heard it here first

vocal shard
#

Yo im rolling for venti

#

So the way I understand it is that we're all going back to having the same nameplates, right? No longer split based on trust?

serene orbit
#

talking? what's that? people just stare at mirrors all day lmao

exotic obsidian
#

honestly the ranks mean nothing yea, it's all about you were able to not be vote kicked from worlds long enough to be that rank

modern geyser
#

I talked about something like VRC+ with a friend almost a year ago, but as a one-time payment

The subscription sounds pretty hefty tbh compared to services like spotify, which offer a bigger benefit in general

cold talon
#

Psst System, if you need more reasons for people to get VRC+ try making VRC+ only instances, that will do the trick 👀

vocal shard
#

Can i just donate money to VRchat team via patreon or something? I don't see any link from official web site.

#

It's not out yet Joo

exotic obsidian
#

lol vrc+ instances oh my god

graceful pewter
#

there's probably a whole host of legal complications of a Corporation doing patreon

vocal shard
#

Yeah, Patreon can suck it

umbral reef
#

@vocal shard If you want to donate to the team just use the subscription model for a while. Its a lot more stable and safe for the team and you get extra stuff from it even.

abstract vault
#

I would like to personally assure everyone that VRChat has never employed a psychologist, or even someone who would pass muster with one
@dark harness If I pay you guys the ten dollars whose foot pics am I getting?

vocal shard
quartz jetty
#

Insert sensible and fully optional donation box here

vocal shard
zenith pumice
#

VRC+ only instances would be a bad idea, crashers can force their way into invite lobbies already, so whats the point

thorn latch
#

Invisible avatars are now dead

night slate
#

Can someone actually give me an exact number of employees VRChat has?

cold talon
#

i know i know, im a genius, vrc team, if you need more monetization ideas, hit me up

vocal shard
#

21

#

whats vrc+

potent fern
#

ofc buying a headset doesnt give VRC money directly but for example, HTC was one of the company giving out funding to vrc, vrc then use this funding in development, people see the game and decide to invest into VR, giving money to HTC ( either Headset or Vive tracker)

Im not saying this is how it is, just one possible interaction I had in my head.

umbral reef
night slate
#

How many in Quality Assurance?

vocal shard
#

0

zenith pumice
exotic obsidian
stable trellis
vocal shard
#

Asking again though, are nameplates all gonna be the same now? Apart from people with vrc+ ofc.

languid beacon
#

I’ve been analyzing the chat here and it seems to be about 18% negative, 25% positive, 55% questions, and 2% lemons.

vocal shard
#

but how do i bu

wind field
#

lemons :)

heady salmon
#

that is worrying. why would nameplates not have color to show user rank

vocal shard
cold talon
#

yeah, they changed it so that modifying the nameplate in any way is bannable in preparation for this update

vocal shard
potent fern
#

well the lemons didnt have any chances D :

umbral reef
timid cairn
#

I see a future of worse elitism :D

vocal shard
#

HELLO

cold talon
#

i think you got your lemon percentage wrong my dude

vocal shard
#

Elitism is already in the game

graceful pewter
#

full-body tracking is much more prevalent of a elitism

vocal shard
#

how do i buy it

stable trellis
umbral reef
silver helm
#

so now, the ultimate chad is: fbt + index + veteran rank + Tactsuit X40 + VRchat plus?

vocal shard
#

In fact, if trust nameplates are going away now then that'll help reduce elitism imo, I don't think "oh lol I paid more money than you" will really be that good of a diss in vrc

dark harness
#

There are no lemons in Ba Sing Sei

timid cairn
#

"Oh you don't have a PCVR headset, FBT, VRChat+? You're broke."

night slate
#

Tbh, I don’t like the idea of a subscription service boosting your rank.... I don’t think it’s fair for the content creators who work hard to get the rank they have.

vocal shard
#

but when will i be able to purchase it tho

#

Rank is pointless

timid cairn
#

Yet another way to separate the VR community :D

cold talon
#

oh oh, i have another great idea for VRC+ feature
4k camera and stream camera
take notes system 👀

stable trellis
#

"wow look at this loser who doesn't have VRC+ scrub" "wow look at this loser who paid for a free game" it goes both ways, if anyone seriously says either of those things its pretty easy to just mute em for being dumb

sharp saddle
#

Pog, it's System!

vocal shard
#

^

#

when can you buy iy

potent fern
#

that big founding round was in 2019 I think? obviously when we look at the situation now and the status of HTC, this might not happen again. ( which could explain why now VRCteam is looking into other avenue for monetization.) And I dont believe vrchat has facebook money to buy their own oculus.

stable trellis
quartz jetty
#

Inb4 lootboxes with special shaders/effects for nameplates

vocal shard
#

lmao

cold talon
umbral reef
vocal shard
#

the mute is now behind VRC+ buy our monthly subscription to continue muting and we'll throw in a bonus girlfriend

#

Vrchat gacha game, let's go, admins being 5 stars

chrome hinge
#

money should have nothing to do with rank or "Supporter Badge". you know who the real supporters are? The content makers! imagine some new player who sits mute in front of a mirror all day gets a supporter badge because he paid. But content creator (like Jar or Lucifer M Star who's maps dominate vrchat) DON'T get the supporter badge all because they dont pay 10 dollars a month.

smoky spear
#

facebook's own system (horizon?) is likely to siphon a lot of users away from vrchat when it releases

abstract vault
#

the mute is now behind VRC+ buy our monthly subscription to continue muting and we'll throw in a bonus girlfriend
@vocal shard Pay an extra ten dollars and said gf will be a girl IRL.

vocal shard
#

is it a monthly thing

stable trellis
#

$20 for 2750 VRCoins! one lootbox will cost 1323 VRCoins, or 5 lootboxes for 3001 VRCoins!

night slate
#

I agree with Pop

vocal shard
#

I simp for vrchat 5 star pulls

languid beacon
white warren
#

@stable trellis why did you say my numbers

frosty veldt
#

They stated they want to add more badges, I hope they sent all gated behind VRC+

night slate
#

Ranks should not be a thing you can buy.

vocal shard
#

Ranks shouldn't even be a visible thing to begin with

quartz jetty
#

The lootboxes are 3001 coins each and you can only get 3000 per payment

timid cairn
#

Ability to stare in a mirror is now locked behind VRChat+!

stable trellis
vocal shard
#

but i heard about this vrc+ thing

languid beacon
vocal shard
#

@languid beacon That makes me very happy, thank god, it was about time.

#

is it a monthly subscription

white warren
#

Idk

languid beacon
#

They still show up when you have the quick menu open but even that can be disabled if you want

quartz jetty
#

I hope that stays that way adeon

stable trellis
night slate
potent fern
#

Im not aware if vrc had other monetization since then that was not involving players directly. so how they can keep running the game is beyond me.
I am totally fine with monetization like thee sub services they announced today.
I just think that what you get for the price is a bif off. Either add more in the deal or reduce the cost, even if it would mean reduce the features that come with it.

vocal shard
#

I don't like the way gray and blue users are being treated just because they're new, it feels super fresh to interact with them but I think them being treated shitty by vrc regulars just decreases their chances of returning

#

So if the rank system is truly invisible for the most part now then that'll go a long way.

frosty veldt
stable trellis
#

i made a majority of my longer term friends when i was New User, ranks really dont mean anything aside from safety settings and yeah making it less visible is definitely a good thing

graceful pewter
#

honestly performance rank is a much more useful piece of information for me

vocal shard
#

<very poor> gang

quartz jetty
#

Weighted performance when?

night slate
#

Hey can someone pop down that link

potent fern
#

I think people see 10$ and then start comparing with other services what they can get.
As for supporting the game, its easier if the amount is lower a bit lower.
Im trying to find the right word s for it but
Giving out 5$ as support feels easier to pass ( even if you dont get much out of it yourself. While giving 10$ feels like you should also get something in return.
we might be arguing over 5$ and thats not a lot but i was thinking of patreon for example. where you often have very low tier like 1$ and 5$, You dont get much from it but it more as a support for the content creator.

hidden gust
#

loving the VRC+ idea!
Hoping we'll see EU servers/ local hosts at some point.
i see alot of opportunity in it

$10 as of rn might seem alot but i think the outcome can be really good

vocal shard
#

Subbing to free content on twitch, PepeLaugh

fading flare
#

Yeah, have to see what the "more features coming soon" are before deciding it's worth $10 a month TBH

hidden gust
#

this is all for a better VRChat i am sure

quartz jetty
#

Pay what you want donation box is the safest bet, albeit likely the least reliable one, as you'd be waiting for actual donations whilst here there's an incentive

coarse rock
#

Ability to stare in a mirror is now locked behind VRChat+!
@timid cairn dumbest thing ive heard all night 👍

fading flare
#

cusom icons and another 75 save slots are nice and all but I doubt i'm gonna make full use of the 25 that I'm gonna have

sharp sorrel
#

VRC needs money .. Lets call this for what it is, Since OCT the servers are burning and they need money to fix the broken shit before it gits much much worse .

stable trellis
#

i mean i pay $70 a month for my phone and all that gets me is spam calls and a social media addiction. $10 a month for VRC+ is a bargain in comparison

vocal shard
#

My problem with "more features coming soon" is that usually it takes them a long ass time to implement features they've mentioned, so they should've probably not included that in the presentation

hidden gust
#

Whoever is complaining about VRC+ is silly, ur not losing anything by not paying, actually ur still getting more

fading flare
#

well yeah, it was obvious that they'd need to monetize the game somehow eventually

sharp sorrel
#

20k people on OFF peak times have broght this to a head .

coarse rock
#

@timid cairn ah sorry ppl have been saying some weird sh*t lately

vocal shard
#

Mirrors should be vrc+ tbh, thx

fading flare
#

i just don't think, for me personally, that what's currently listed as benefits of VRC+ are worth the $10

hidden gust
#

you can always not give out ur money and nothing will change vrcLove its a decision not mandatory. ur not paying for the game. ur just supporting it.

and giving it potential for good updates

potent fern
#

I paid more in the past for subscription games like MMO but with VRC, being a game that was free for so long and then suddenly having a cost ( as an option ofc) has a shocking effect for a lot people. We can see this just by reading this chat for the last 3- 4 hours.

vocal shard
#

@fading flare That's what most people seem to agree on rn

vast lintel
#

Give me 90+ frames 24/7, then I’ll debate on buying.

chrome hinge
#

also cuz the game is buggy af and has poor security and crashes. that's what makes the 10 dollars a month sound bad

sharp sorrel
#

VRC has been struggling just to keep it running, . They are also struggling to monitize with the current build.

coarse rock
#

I think the price - intially is maybe a bit much, however I really want to support the devs so they can actually bring better devs on the team to create better content for the game.

west yoke
vast lintel
#

Also, I see this as an absolute win. The richer can waste money to support vrchat so we get better features. 😁

fading flare
#

I'm interested in what they mention in their blog post when it comes to long time goals for content creators being able to support themselves. Hopefully that means a way for avatar makers to sell avatars without having to sell unity packages

graceful pewter
#

and it's a lot less harmful than microtransaction mechanics

coarse rock
#

This can either go one of two ways - the devs take the cash and go, but I doubt it. OR they work towards improving the experience for the entire community - which I feel will occur

vocal shard
#

Vrc, partner with Mihoyo and give us some primogems with your sub, thx. I gotta get me Zhongli when he's released in two weeks

chrome hinge
#

lmao

potent fern
#

bruh

sharp stream
#

@fading flare still would rather buy the unity package tbh, would always like to put my own little spin on something like a rexouium

vocal shard
#

What can I say, I simp for 5 star daddys

stable trellis
#

just pulled a 5 star nameplate lets gooo

vocal shard
#

Just pulled my 5 star Tupper card, woo

fading flare
#

I do too, but there are a lot of creators that don't like selling unity packages out of (legitimate) piracy concerns, and giving them the ability to sell without anyone breaking the TOS would be a nice thing

graceful pewter
#

they probably continue to sell the package on the websites and a cheaper version on the vrchat store with no customisation

quartz jetty
#

You need to spend additional play coins to unlock your new special nameplate

stable trellis
#

damn i keep pulling the same 3 star trash emojis

vocal shard
#

Nameplate lootboxes, ngl, I'm whaling for that shit

fading flare
#

For three play coins I can assist you on your path

stable trellis
#

feeeed me my cooooins mr freemaaaaaaaaa

quartz jetty
#

Look gordon a rope

silver helm
#

guys guys, listen. vrc+ mirrors.

graceful pewter
#

I doubt they're going to do any loot boxes

vocal shard
#

Mirrors exclusive to vrc+ pls

quartz jetty
#

VRC++ Doors

fading flare
#

Eh, rec room is still as good as it ever was after introducing monetization, I doubt VRC is gonna change

vocal shard
#

I would pay for just good regular updates, not just 20+ bug fixes

graceful pewter
#

okay so what would be your suggestion for an income source for vrchat hotdogwater

vocal shard
#

vrchat lootboxes

fading flare
#

hah, regular updates instead of bugfixes stares off into the distance as a veteran of second life

coarse rock
#

What have they locked behind a paywall?

quartz jetty
#

Paywatyewant donation bawx

fading flare
#

custom nameplate icons

vocal shard
#

Ehh, don't stress out about it, I doubt much is gonna change tbh, I just hope we won't get to the point where we have ads in our loading screen, etc

umbral reef
#

@coarse rock Locked? Nothing really. They only give you extra stuff of what you already have so far. Read the blogposts in #announcements

fading flare
#

as opposed to the basic ones I guess? the name plate icons in general are new to begin with, so it's not like anything existing is getting moved behind a paywall

stable trellis
coarse rock
#

^^^^^^^ I was mainly trying to figure who the F was crying about the devs adding in a non-forced method to support the devs

umbral reef
#

You guys do realize that advertising money makes almost jack shit right? Unless you got to tier brands advertising you dont even get 0,001 dollar from most advertisements a view

vocal shard
#

A lot of us saw this coming from a mile away when they started cracking down on things that edit your nameplates, nameplates was always the easiest thing they could've monetized

sterile summit
#

Isn't the core game still free?

umbral reef
coarse rock
#

100% literally says in the medium post

quartz jetty
#

My only suggestion is a hands free donation box, pay what you want, simple, no hassle, though inconsistent

vocal shard
coarse rock
#

That wouldn't really push people to support the devs as much - which is why they added smaller things you can receive by supporting via VRC+

fading flare
#

you can't rely on donations to pay the bills

sterile summit
#

Why are so many people complaining then? It's optional

graceful pewter
#

that's not terribly great for business to have super inconsistent monthly Revenue

coarse rock
#

Why do you think they're adding VRC+? They can easily figure out what their monthly revenue is - and then they can actually hire quality developers that they might not have been able to afford previously, etc.

quartz jetty
#

That's the point, it's incentivating people to buy into it rather than relying on actual voluntary donations

graceful pewter
#

and investors aren't going to want to keep throwing that their money at their face forever

indigo seal
#

People act like its the end of the world if they dont have that extra 75 fav slots bruh

coarse rock
#

VRC got - I think around 15 million in 2016 via HTC and I think Facebook, they stretched it this long, so I'm quite impressed.

vocal shard
graceful pewter
#

also I would point out they can't use all of it in one year because then they wouldn't have any money for next year

coarse rock
#

With the small team, and the amount of money, I'm impressed. Obviously the game itself isn't "perfect" but I can definitely work with it, and the potential the addition of VRC+ has

umbral reef
#

They got other seeding rounds too
But keep in mind, those often come with a promise of making systems like Udon or Av3

fading flare
#

One thing I could see them potentially adding to VRC+ is a prop inventory with universal props people could pull out to use no matter where they are. Kinda like the props in Pokerstars VR. Just simple things that you can hold.

indigo seal
dark spindle
#

Hello

coarse rock
#

@fading flare Ehhh - I like that idea, but it might be quite difficult to do something like that. More in the sense that not every model / avatar will be the same

vocal shard
#

So should I get vrc pulse or not

quartz jetty
#

It sounds doable, loading an entity into the world like your avatar does, though it should be limited to avoid propspam abuse

fading flare
#

That's true, I was thinking more in the sense of just things to hold and throw around and such rather than things to try and attach to your avatar. Like if you're hanging out in a theater being able to pull out a bottle of soda without having to rely on the map maker having put one there

heady salmon
#

if you want to

stoic saddle
coarse rock
#

True, but not what we were talking about @stoic saddle

magic void
stoic saddle
#

I mean, you can literally already do it yourself though? Why put something you can already do behind a paywall lol

umbral reef
#

To not get banned and support the devs? @stoic saddle
Nvm didnt see you meant the avatar stuff

quartz jetty
#

Oh no not that

coarse rock
#

@stoic saddle They're more discussing "universal" items, in the sense that it wouldn't matter the model you were in, you would be able to spawn certain items. And yes, you can still do that for every model if you so please, but Clover was probably talking about making a system that would spawn items in - much easier.

heady salmon
#

so not avatar specific and more so general

fading flare
#

yeah

stoic saddle
#

The only real extra features I want to see are the ones we actually shouldn't see, such as server stability, account security, etc

indigo seal
#

if so, place a limit on how many u can spawn tho

stable trellis
#

vrc will certainly never remove anything from the base experience, but long term worst case scenario is they add annoyances in the free version that you can pay to get rid of with VRC+ (ads, queue systems?, idk lol). its basically apple's whole business model to create a problem and sell you the solution to it and they're doing great financially lol
(obviously this is baseless speculation)*

timid cairn
#

^

quartz jetty
#

Oh god please no queues

heady salmon
#

oh jeez 2b2t queue in vrchat NO!

indigo seal
#

ads in a game? bruh, ublock for games when

stoic saddle
graceful pewter
#

also likely some sort of in-game shop for premium avatars where they take like 15% of the price

coarse rock
#

🤷‍♂️ I tell people to wait a month or so after VRC+ is actually live before making true opinions on it.

fading flare
#

oh definitely, it would have to be like, only two things spawned at a time per avatar or something lol. Idea is meant to be things to hold or fidget with so no need for more than one for each hand

umbral reef
coarse rock
#

🤷‍♂️ "Premium Avatars" could mean literally anything, and could easily get them sued if misusing certain assets, etc. I doubt it'll happen in that style @graceful pewter

dark spindle
#

Hi

sterile summit
#

Hello

stable trellis
quartz jetty
#

Download Throttling

umbral reef
#

Make mirrors VRC+ 🙏
Do it please

dark spindle
heady salmon
#

why mirrors

sterile summit
#

Do not make mirrors VRC+

graceful pewter
#

well virtual Market already exists selling paid avatars just the transactions are happening off-site currently including Square Enix selling nier automata avatars officially

stoic saddle
dark spindle
fading flare
#

The blog post sure makes it sound like they wanna make some kind of official market for avatars and worlds or something eventually

mental lily
#

Was reading the chat from earlier, and I'm so glad I'm not a gamedev. Really depressing reading a bunch of children railing on the devs for being terrible coders when they know nothing about what they're talking about. Too many bad takes. I'll get VRC+ as soon as it releases.

stable trellis
#

^

graceful pewter
#

yeah they are trying to hire folks to sort out how to do it official Market

umbral reef
fading flare
#

which is a good thing for everyone as long as the're not taking too huge of a cut and blocking outside transactions

stoic saddle
coarse rock
#

@umbral reef You'd be wrong, actually. I've hung out with plenty of the devs in game, I've had some really nice conversations with them as well.

umbral reef
magic void
graceful pewter
#

there's a difference between hanging out with like 30 people in a VR chat room and being in a room of 10000 people on Discord

stable trellis
#

a feature i really, desperately want for VRC is something along the lines of blizzard's 2FA app where, instead of having to type a RNG code every time i log in, i just tap a notification on my phone instead

typing those codes in VR keyboard is a nightmare lol

dark spindle
#

Vrchat is awesome made me very happy that game, please just buy vrc+ to support the devs so that it doesn’t get shut down I’d be sad if that happened

mental lily
stoic saddle
#

I'm scared to even look at reddit right now lol

vocal shard
#

lmao good idea, lemme check

coarse rock
#

Well, I guess I can't necessarily speak on the discord, however, I feel like there's just too many people chatting that the devs can't really speak to everyone. Which I guess could be good, could be bad. 🤷‍♂️ It's just something that developers deal with. @umbral reef

mental lily
stable trellis
graceful pewter
#

I wonder what the Japanese Community is thinking at the moment

indigo seal
#

prepare wallet

stable trellis
#

prolly something like あっ、そっか

mental lily
vocal shard
#

Yeah as expected, it's going crazy on reddit

graceful pewter
#

probably a lot more game for this considering how much they spend on anime figurines

fading flare
#

haha, reddit posts about the introduction of "classism" with VRC+. Yeah it's gone even stupider there than I could have anticipated

graceful pewter
#

VR headsets are much more of a classism then a little name tag

covert chasm
fading flare
#

and fullbody, the ultimate classism

stoic saddle
covert chasm
#

Don't let that discourage you from exploring ideas you have. 😄

indigo seal
dark spindle
#

Didn’t they remove that anyway? Idk about pc users but in the quest community, anyone below green was always made fun of simply for being new to the game and from what I heard, they’re removing name colours and letting you customise it if you buy vrc plus?

vocal shard
#

😠
Vrchat gacha game, let's go
(less caps this time)

umbral reef
#

Wait tupper, as your a robot, do you eat Ram sticks as a snacc or do you still eat sweets?

stable trellis
magic void
indigo seal
#

can VRC+ users have reactions enabled here?

stoic saddle
mental lily
stable trellis
leaden agate
#

I dont really know about that vrc+ thingie at this point of time. In my honest opinion:
I know that they have to get some sort of income at some point of time. But right now it feels a bit rushed, since the game has some things that should be higher prioritized like safety settings that actually work as intended (reported an issue twice by now), performance updates and especially voice issues when you are hosting the instance. In my opinion vrc+ could be tiered like;
vrc+ 5$ (doing 50 fav avatars + badges and those nameplate things, didnt look completly into it)
vrc+ 10$ (100 fav avatars + more badges)
vrc+ 25$ (yeah, give them a shiny nameplate or something, for those who want to give you more money)

That would be a more friendly approach in my eyes. Give them who dont want to spent a lot an oppurtunity to support you, and these who want to spent a lot the possibility to do so as well without creating a major rift between low/high tier payers.

indigo seal
#

i'd spend 5$ rather than 10$ ngl

dark spindle
magic void
mental lily
vocal shard
#

@stoic saddle They do, I'm in publics all the time and gray / blue users get treated like shit by mostly trusted users, I see it all the time, so them removing the ability to see rank colors is gonna help them out a lot

indigo seal
magic void
stoic saddle
modern hill
#

lol

vocal shard
#

I personally love the new players that come to this game, they feel fresh to interact with and it's fun to introduce them to the nuts game that is VRC

dark spindle
#

I never got to see my name turn purple 😔

modern hill
#

awwh

magic void
stable trellis
#

its not too late birdy, start grinding now upload 100 worlds maybe dont do that many
you still have time to realize that its....... meaningless haha

mental lily
indigo seal
sinful summit
#

yo when is vrc plus going to be live?

dark spindle
stable trellis
dark spindle
rapid karma
#

ym guys

mental lily
stable trellis
fading flare
#

even then fixing the game requires time and money

stoic saddle
magic void
#

I feel like the best way to "educate" them is to ask them to make their own game. And if there are flaws in said games, we'll say "just fix the game" and see how they'll feel. 😉

sterile summit
#

Speaking of fixing the game. Does anyone know when they'll fix crouching on 3.0 avatars?

jolly ether
balmy tendon
#

I don't think we should condemn that directly. I mean we don't have to subscribe.

stable trellis
mental lily
sterile summit
#

In my experience making 3.0 avatars, whenever they crouch I go into a couching animation with no IK

magic void
balmy tendon
#

It's like you would subscribe to a streamer.

stoic saddle
dusk pier
#

They’ve probably been losing a bunch of money on server costs, development, etc. so they need to turn a profit somehow

mental lily
balmy tendon
#

It's completely voluntary, so what's so immoral about that?

magic void
fading flare
#

the only issue i've had with 3.0 avatars and crouching are that the default animations are kind of weird and a bit too dependent on whether I'm looking forward/up or slightly down

balmy tendon
cloud sluice
#

I wonder what the Japanese Community is thinking at the moment
@graceful pewter They're mostly excited at being able to financially support VRC, it seems.

mental lily
# magic void Why don't we give them that experience?

My point is that you shouldn't have to. Having a bit of empathy is common decency. It's not hard to try to imagine someone else's perspective without having personally lived through it, instead of just slinging hate about things you don't personally know about

stoic saddle
graceful pewter
#

I'm not surprised given there also a lot more on board with premium avatars

unborn igloo
#

Welp, now we are all quest users

dusk pier
balmy tendon
#

I think we should be proud.

stoic saddle
#

We should be proud. They literally made a new (somewhat) language for VRChat, and that's probably not easy to do? Or cheap?

stable trellis
# mental lily Yup, I'd been reading the chat of a few hours ago, and it was just sad. To spew ...

people really think that not a single day goes by in the VRChat office (socially distanced, ofc) where not a single dev looks at the canny bug reports and feature requests. but game development is so incredibly complicated and users are typically shielded from how messy it is that entitlement and ignorance turns very quickly into hostility. dont really think it will get better any time soon, gamers will be gamers lol

balmy tendon
#

Just enjoy it while VRChat still exists, maybe VRC will no longer exist in the next few years. It can be

hidden gust
#

i think the $6.99 and $69/ year is a missed opportunity. ik its less but i think much more would like that and more people will support it.

magic void
dusk pier
#

I think you're looking too deep into it, VRChat is a business at the end of the day and they need to make money so they're introducing this, nothing is going to change if you don't pay for it so people shouldn't get upset about it. No big deal, if you have the extra money to spend and you want more avatar slots or whatever then go for it

mental lily
balmy tendon
magic void
mental lily
#

Take care @magic void 👋

frigid peak
#

wait, game developers have a cost of living and need to make an income to sustain a service?

fading flare
#

They'll bring back the Zzz emoji as a VRC+ feature :3

potent gale
#

That would be stupid if so, Clover

dusk pier
#

One thing I think they need to improve is optimization, for all of my friends at least, there's a lot of lag and we have pretty decent PCs, if its an issue with the engine or something then I get that but it's definitely something I'd like to see improved. going into Void club and lagging my ass off kinda sucks sometimes but i'm used to it

lucid sandal
#

Seems everyone gets 25 favorites now?

balmy tendon
stable trellis
#

tbh im waiting for VRC++ for a more modern, object oriented Vrchat

potent gale
dusk pier
#

If they optimize the game then im gonna buy VRC+, otherwise hell no lol

balmy tendon
#

No, i like VRC+. They made a wonderful game to me. So why i dont support that ^^

lucid sandal
#

9 more avatars gives me a lot more flexibility

mental lily
# stable trellis people really think that not a single day goes by in the VRChat office (socially...

Yeah, and it can be very time consuming to try to add additional transparency and let everyone in on every little thing you're doing. Ultimately can mean you get a lot less done. But yeah, I think it's ignorance that plays a bit role in creating entitlement and hostility, and unfortunately you can't expect everyone to exude decency, ahaha. It is what it is. I just hate to see toxicity rain upon people who are doing their best to make such a cool project. I hope the best for their mental health.

hidden gust
#

idk if its a good idea for tiers. it would seem as P2W then, depending on what they add.
you guys gotta realise P2W here is not the way they wanna keep it fair for all. just additional benefits that wont change the supporters from everyone else

fading flare
#

what actually happened to the Zzz emoji anyway? Was there ever any reason given for it's removal? It was useful for explaining to people that I wasn't talking due to my partner sleeping right behind me

balmy tendon
#

Sure, the optimization of this game is just not that nice. But I think the people you get to know there are great ^^

hidden gust
#

mostly its the creators that arent optimised not the game, sure there's some things that could be fixed tho

dark harness
#

The ZZZ emoji had to be retired after a trademark dispute with the band Empire of the Sun*

  • this is not true, I don't actually know
balmy tendon
#

xD

fading flare
#

XD

dusk pier
#

There's no way this game is optimized, there's many other games with way better graphics that are more intense and I get way better fps

mental lily
hidden gust
#

what do u mean better graphics? we have the option to use whatever graphics we want

stable trellis
graceful pewter
#

most video games don't have to deal with user-generated content

balmy tendon
graceful pewter
#

or cramming 60 people into a small box

stoic saddle
#

I've said this about other games... If you're so angry and salty about changes a game makes, or just don't like a game, maybe instead of complaining about the game, go find something else to do?

dusk pier
#

Yeah that's kinda facts, It's a hard issue to solve

balmy tendon
#

true

graceful pewter
#

also something like fortnite spreads the hundred people over a couple of kilometers

dusk pier
#

this 30 sec slow mode kind of poo poo

faint skiff
#

Are the devs going to be cracking down on client users now that one of the main client features is a paid feature? (and everyone and their mum is using a client these days)

stoic saddle
#

VRChat haters are like the next "Fortnite bad" crowd or something

hidden gust
#

the reason u lack fps is the world optimisation/ peoples avatars. Dont put the blame on the game. the game itself runs on a wireless Oculus

balmy tendon
faint skiff
#

That's the "excuse" I hear

balmy tendon
frigid peak
#

I'm here to tell people VRChat+ isn't that bad an idea.

dusk pier
#

I understand clients are against TOS, but I think they're beneficial for the game

faint skiff
#

The crashers don't force the client users to fly around or keep swapping between a load of different avatars though. Hence why the use of clients to stop "crashers" is just a poor excuse for their use.

mental lily
# dusk pier There's no way this game is optimized, there's many other games with way better ...

If you go to a map that's created by a random person and fill it with avatars that are created by random people, in your opinion, what do you think that the people who make the game can do to allow the content that they didn't make to perform well? When you give your opinion, please don't state that other games work better if those games are ones where the whole game and its contents are made by the developers themselves, because you should see why that is a disingenuous comparison.

graceful pewter
#

and most video games are not targeting 90 frames per second

stable trellis
cloud sluice
#

Honestly, I find VRC deals surprisingly well with a lot of people in a small area as it is, as far as performance goes (instances tend to break in subtle ways though...) Some other platforms I've played on tend to have my FPS reach unplayable levels at around 20 people. I've been able to function somewhat in VRC even as instances reach 80 players.

hidden gust
balmy tendon
faint skiff
#

@balmy tendon Pretty sure it is, as that's not common. @stable trellis I know what the "official word" is. But the use is prolific right now with nothing being done about it.

balmy tendon
#

Thats why some users are using a client, to not get crashed or something.

stoic saddle
#

I think of it like a streamer. If a streamer wants better equipment, to give the viewers a better experience, they may have to do something to get them to donate/subscribe

hidden gust
#

thats why u use safety settings

faint skiff
#

Sounds like a poor excuse. The rest of us are doing fine not getting crashed without having to use some magical "crash blocker".

balmy tendon
fading flare
#

Yeah, just look at SL, it's amazing it runs as well as it does given it's having to constantly stream in completely arbitrary assets from several regions that are running on separate machines with no real loading times. And yet people are constantly complaining about it running like trash.

Maybe if people would stop uploading super high detail models meant for rendering or high end single player games into multiplayer (VR) things we wouldn't have so many issues. Yeah there's definitely a lot of optimization that could go on on the game's end to make things better, but that's still not gonna help when most people are running around in poorly optimized avatars with a billion materials and shaders in a room full of 20 people

balmy tendon
solid epoch
#

Does anyone know if I can change my profile pic or character from the website and not in the actual game

stoic saddle
dark harness
#

When I play Beat Saber, I play Beat Saber with a lot of mods, and I think "thank god for all of these excellent mods, what a great community this game has".
On the other hand, when I'm playing a multiplayer game and someone floats by, glowing, and then headshots everybody in the room, I usually think "christ, what a butthole, the devs should do something about that".

dusk pier
#

The crashers and everything suck, but I think it's also a part of VRC. Sure, in a perfect world crashers don't exist and everyone is having fun and being creative with their external clients, but you can't have the good without the bad. If you ban everyone with clients, then that whole area is just destroyed, it would be like banning people with optifine from minecraft and banning people who are using hacks. I just don't think that's right. If you ban people for being malicious then that's fine, but don't ban people who have melonloader and just have it so they can interact with their friends dynamic bones

indigo seal
balmy tendon
cloud sluice
#

@dusk pier you can already be banned just for using modded clients, and has been that way a long time, though. even benign ones

hidden gust
fading flare
#

yeah, it's ancient and held together with duct tape at this point, but VRChat has a lot of the same kind of things going on that lead to it not being as "optimized" from the user perspective as a game with baked in assets

stoic saddle
#

VRChat is REALLY hard to stream properly TBH. It can be incredibly fun, but I'm just a desktop person, so for me, it does get a bit bland after a bit. Plus people are afraid to stream it right now because of DMCA garbage going on

faint skiff
#

@dark harness Pretty much. If they used it for personal improvements it wouldn't even be noticeable. But when people keep teleporting onto me, or floating past, or telling me exactly where other people are on the map and how far away they are... well... that's not cool.

balmy tendon
dusk pier
hidden gust
#

the reason the game closes instead is to not fry your $1000+ GPU

#

the easiest solution^

mental lily
# indigo seal yeah HL in VR really did a massive push for it which im glad it did

It was depressing at the time to see how many people were extremely upset by it, when it makes no sense for Valve not to stand by a platform they've invested in for so long by not making a 1st party flagship game. All the people saying that it was just to sell their VR kit, when the game is fully compatible with every kit on the market lol. But yeah, HL:A is one of the most amazing games I've played and it really did a huge deal for VR, and I'm really hoping we'll see more titles like that.

cloud sluice
#

Maybe in the future a VM like Udon, but for the client, could be a thing to allow certain client mods?

fading flare
#

Like WoW addons?

hidden gust
#

System, i do wanna ask idk if you guys have the answer, but do you guys ever plan something for EU users? vrcThinking

karmic rose
#

Just tried the Beta. Some things I like. Some things I don't. I hope they push out more clarification on the intended function on these new systems. Like abuse protection from uploading any image as an Icon. Or what the intended behavior of the Favorite list is if someone Unsubs for a month, do they loose the 75 additional avatars even if they resub for the next month? Or do the avatars just get hidden and reshow if you resub. I would also hope for clarification on the "boost" in Trust Ranking for paid members because it seems fairly counter intuitive to the notion of "Trust". Much of their statements thus far have been fairly vague. Clarification would help justify the cost.

My biggest worry came from an image in the Beta that states new features would be released for VRC+ users, which gives the impression that moving forward, new features and additions to the game will be paywalled. and that is worrisome too. Clarification would be appreciated in the coming days.

stable trellis
#

yuh its pretty easy to see "hey this user is using a modded client" but nearly impossible to see "hey this user is using a modded client capable of these exact non-malicious enhancements"
as for enforcement, im pretty sure that all comes down to reports which are, for the most part, reviewed by humans and not by some kind of algorithm (though ive never interacted with the mod team so who knows)

hidden gust
#

if this VRC+ goes well atleast

dusk pier
#

VRC+ is here to stay, they gotta find some way to monetize the game

balmy tendon
#

And i like the Idea ^^

indigo seal
dusk pier
#

As long as they don't add features that are "pay to win" i don't care at all.

frigid peak
#

vrcAngry some people out here rioting about vrc+ but I'm out here rioting cause system probably doesn't have a 30 second chat cooldown

balmy tendon
#

xDDD

fading flare
#

how do you win VRC anyway?

zenith pumice
#

lmao

dusk pier
#

Fr this 30 sec slow mode stooopid, this shit should be going 300mph like a twitch chat

indigo seal
cloud sluice
#

as a EU user, I don't really mind the US servers that much... maybe because I'm mostly hanging out with JP users, who get similar ping times as well (just so happens the US is pretty much in the middle between the atlantic and the pacific)

stable trellis
dark harness
#

I don't think I'm allowed to talk much about our roadmap. I can say that we've talked about integrating Udon with our UI to build inline mods (and we think that would be really cool) and worldwide Photon servers (and we think THAT would be really cool) and we haven't ruled them out

hidden gust
thorny plume
#

the 4 tiles in the promo video that say "and more.." really shouldve actually had something in them, if you want people to commit to a sub

frigid peak
#

I've always wondered why VRChat went with Udon instead of integrating an adaptive and established language like LUA.

indigo seal
#

cannot wait for some UI changes poggers

cloud sluice
#

@frigid peak you could probably compile Lua to Udon VM

sour fog
#

honestly as long as i can play my animations and keep making avatars im good

dusk pier
#

I got an idea, add somehow to add "verified" mods that the VRC staff thinks is okay for the game, and then add a way if people don't like the mods to disable them in their worlds. For example if I'm making a friends+ world and don't want dynamic bones to be interactive I can turn it off in the interface when I'm making the world

dark harness
#

So, we definitely still need a QA tester - and, more importantly, a server person for my team - but I've been crunching so hard on VRChat+ I haven't actually had time to even go through the submissions that are in there. Which, uh, is kind of funny, because if we hired someone, I'd have more time to go through stuff like that.

fading flare
#

yeah, playing Murder with people in europe can be a bit of a pain sometimes with the desynch lol.

mental lily
dusk pier
#

I got a server company that I can get you crazy deals if you need server hosting, i'm personally best friends with the CEO and can get you in touch

balmy tendon
#

@dark harness When can you subscribe?

dark harness
#

Maybe we need to hire someone to hire people >_> some sort of... "person to deal with humans... as a resource". I don't think a job like that exists right now

hidden gust
#

i cant wait for the future then. i wish you all the best with this VRC+ idea. whoever built it is amazing.
its not P2W and its support. i hope the money goes to good use. and last update was amazing especially with that camera option and blocked avatar height.
Just wanna personally thank you for that. its great

thorny plume
#

if we're paying $10 a month extra, does that mean eye tracking + 7 tracker support, because of the increased data? :P

echo sigil
#

id like a us east server really

balmy tendon
frigid peak
#

I'm petitioning for a deskchan gif in this server.

thorny plume
#

subscription service without european servers vrcThinking

sour fog
#

honestly i feel like if people didn't abuse clients and use them for like malicious stuff i feel like they would be allowed you know just like flying and the little stuff

night slate
#

It’s not a good idea.

thorny plume
#

make the API vrc+ access only

dusk pier
#

making games is a pain pain pain pain pain in the ass, I spent 3 days coding a clicker game for my computer science class and it was a bitch, so I get that making games is impossible and there's some times when players think they know what's best for the game, but on the development end something completely different is what needs to be done

zenith pumice
#

there is a unused EU server from what i have heard of from others

balmy tendon
indigo seal
hidden gust
#

imagine working for VRC vrcWOAH that'd be so cool

stable trellis
graceful pewter
#

kind of interesting how the Vibe is quite different between the two rooms between public lounge and vrchat general

frigid peak
#

vrchat general gang gang

sharp saddle
#

Are you the same Knight I see in the Pug? Thonk

dusk pier
#

At the end of the day, it's the developers game. Sure, we can have an influence as players, but the devs have made the game and it's their choice on what direction they want to take it. Yeah it might suck ass if they make everything pay to win but they have the right to, i'm not saying it won't come with consequences to the players but they got the right to do it,

sour fog
frigid peak
#

I've got to board public lobby so I can defend VRChat+ honor

indigo seal
frigid peak
#

Just got to switch my profile picture real quick

sour fog
#

yeah there are avis that can fly but people like to use noclip and stuff

dusk pier
#

I just use playspace mover, ez clap

dark harness
#

We really don't want to make the game play-to-win. The team is filled with a bunch of people who are mostly gamers, too - and they shoot down all of my great monetization schemes, like "gatcha lootboxes but we fill them with real human bones and each bone has a QR code on it that grants you a random private avatar from a creator who didn't expect it"

sour fog
thorny plume
#

ive always said that vrchat deserved money, but it should either be a one time game purchase of $15-20 or something closer to a discord nitro fee of $4.99 a month, with the current content

frigid peak
#

Alright, I'm ready to board public lobby