It would still trigger it
#vrchat-general-2
cold talon
lunar cedar
Maybe just detect it in in the general channels. Hopefully someone that already understands material count is using #avatar-optimization or another channel like that
cold talon
And a bunch of people call avatars skins and say publish too 
lunar cedar
On another note, does the SDK really limit mat count? How do people with 250 mats mod the SDK but not learn atlasing xD
cold talon
Nah, it does not limit it
umbral reef
The sdk limits nothing by now right
static crow
hi
I'm using the oculus rift s
my rift microphone stops working after like 1-3 hours randomly and to make it work again i have to replug the cables and restart the game
it's really annoying, any fix or easier solution?
anyone with rift s has similar issues or a solution?
snow wadi
The workaround I used to mitigate the mic issue on the Rift S was to disable the built-in speakers and use my own ear buds, the mic then works flawlessly. It's a USB bandwidth issue.
still lark
got a sauce on that?
snow wadi
Me.
still lark
Yeah but like, how do you know it's a bandwidth issue?
half arch
Hello
snow wadi
I call the USB bandwidth being the issue because if the audio is enabled again the issue comes back. I've been testing back and forth with it. The other sign that it is the cable is the launcher for Oculus will also nag about not being able to detect the sensor array of the headset. It's always ONE module failing at a time, it never is able to have the whole set running without one of them dropping.
As soon as I kill the audio in the headset however, it NEVER fails.
faint skiff
Could be a motherboard/USB controller partial incompatibility rather than a general problem as it doesn't seem to affect everyone.
snow wadi
If you check the forums on oculus though, it seems to be a persistent issue.
I even gave the headset a dedicated USB 3.0 card, it still has an issue. xD
Gonna pick up my little nephew from school, brb! /o/
whole flare
a friend of mine has been having issues loading into almost any world in vrchat. the loading bar just shows __ / __ and 0 progress .. i've seen the issue before but don't know how it was fixed. i checked her logs and nothing looked off from what i can find. anyone have any idea what might be causing this?..
(this has been an issue for almost all of last week now)
faint skiff
@whole flare If it's not their cache, it could be their network connection (make sure they don't have a VPN set up in Windows, activated or not) or an ISP issue.
whole flare
they have no vpn. better internet then me, and they've manually erased their entire cache before so i guess it might be an isp issue then. tho i've used vpn's myself before and it worked fine on vrc so i take it that's probably not it.
boreal violet
You could try dropping the sample rate on the audio to see if that staves off the issue
i know that for the vive dropping the hz on the front camera allows it to work flawlessly due to less bandwidth, might be the same with audio on oculus
no issue playing with VPN for me
faint skiff
@whole flare The issue isn't with using a VPN, it's with how the game tries to route traffic. There's some weirdness where it'll try and use disabled network interfaces which in turn causes it to never load (as you're seeing here).
next cypress
What do you all think about the oculus rift?
It seems like they've stopped selling and making it
umbral reef
unless you can get it for stupidly cheap just go for the other budget option the riftS/quest
next cypress
But, would you say it's better than the rift s?
Because of it's sensors?
the rift s is a bit cheaper than the oculus rift
like 10 $
snow wadi
As an owner of a rift s, I'm happy with the headset. And the tracking is amazing compared to the other inside out tracking headsets.
broken plover
Stares at wmr angrily
next cypress
How does it feel when you put your hands behind you ig?
snow wadi
If it weren't for WMR we would never have improved on the method. O.o/
next cypress
plus that you don't have full body tracking
broken plover
thats also true
snow wadi
I never have my hands behind me so I'm not really the right person to ask. 
whole flare
@faint skiff so turns out for whatever godforsaken reason she still had hamachi installed.. she yeeted that shit and viola vrchat works again. lol.
broken plover
then go into vrc and see what happens lol
with wmr I can move them for about 5 seconds until they loose tracking (If I move them fast enough)
snow wadi
I know what happens although I have no reason to do so is what it meant.
faint skiff
@whole flare There you go 🙂
@snow wadi Why do you have so many friend requests anyway? Have you been putting out classified ads or something? lol
next cypress
so can you crouch and prone with the oculus rift s?
broken plover
yes
faint skiff
Yes, by literally crouching or going prone
next cypress
then there's really not much difference to the oculus rift
less wires
but 10 less hz
ruby needle
Well, there is more than that
OLED vs LCD, Physical IPD vs Software IPD
External vs ISO Tracking
boreal violet
higher res screens, reliable tracking of controllers only in front of you and when they are not occluding each other in relation to the HMD
faint skiff
Despite all the downsides, the S probably purely because of the much higher screen resolution.
boreal violet
depends on use case but i would not get the old rift
then again i wont get a rift at all since ive got a pimax
faint skiff
There are other options though, such as the Odyssee+ etc
Or maybe a second hand Vive Pro.
snow wadi
@faint skiff I have no clue why, at least 20% I do know are trying to add me because of my avatar.
ruby needle
cus you're appealing to their kink i guess 
broken plover
they have sickness for the thiccness
boreal violet
If i was to go into VR today id pick up an oculus quest, use a sideload steam compatability thing and then pick up a link cable when they become available
faint skiff
Ahh
ruby needle
Since Quest is getting that officially that is not even a bad choice
tawny ore
I'm glad quest bros can join us in the real VRChat
shell jungle
So hecking hard to find specific avatar styles
boreal violet
if their PCs can handle it 😛
boreal violet
its less fully featured tho
tawny ore
It is to a degree... they cannot see majority of avatars and particulate particle articles
faint skiff
It kinda is. The Quest issues off the top of my head are: A) Terrible screen door, B) Terrible comfort, C) Very heavy, etc. Then, taking into account the Link cable - It'll be running below native panel resolution, still have forced fixed foveated rendering and lastly will still have lossy video compression.
So it's not a great idea
boreal violet
yeah i guess that doesnt really matter much since vrchat is a social platform, they dont miss out on any functionality really
tawny ore
I'd wager VRChat functionality IS the avatars
I've got giddy many times when meeting one of my favourite characters 'in person'
ruby needle
what makes you think it will run below native resolution?
Wasn't it even supposed to run at a native with a higher rez 
shell jungle
Is there a specific channel I could ask if anyone knows of any worlds with certain avatar styles? 🤔
umbral reef
And throwing down 300 bucks if you can get it that cheap for one game is silly
tawny ore
You say that... but there's FBT users everywhere
And then there's me who's bought a new console every time monster hunter has migrated
ruby needle
if it gives you enogh benefit its more that fair getting it for one game
all comes down to money spend per time used
boreal violet
thats pretty horrible
faint skiff
@ruby needle Not according to everyone that's watched the keynotes, I assume it's a bandwidth/latency reason. Same as still using fixed foveated rendering.
boreal violet
but ive never seen the charm of monster hunter, i know there are near religious players of it and thats odd
tawny ore
I am one of them... kind of. 13 years spent on it, I guess I am
faint skiff
Buying the Quest just as a the quest then having the link as an additional feature is fine, but for the love of god don't buy the Quest for PCVR, just buy a Rift S.
tawny ore
Does anyone know what connection Quest uses to connect to a PC/computing implement/pocket calculator?
faint skiff
USB 3
tawny ore
Oh god damit bot...
I meant what's the entry point into Quest - also USB 3?
ruby needle
C
faint skiff
USB C on the Quest side
tawny ore
USB C.... I wonder if it's juiced up like the Switch one
ruby needle
in what way?
faint skiff
I don't think it supports fast charging, no.
lean pumice
i am new here
tawny ore
That's what I had in mind
lunar cedar
USB 3.1 in particular
lunar cedar
It should support PD. The chipset certainly does
tawny ore
I tried using 3.1 with my Rift S; friggin port is a piece of crap. The sound volume and quality plummeted to nigh unforgivable levels
I plugged into the DAC-UP port and the headset sprung to life with new found juiciness.
I'm really into juicy words today.
faint skiff
@lunar cedar I don't think it's enabled, probably for longevity reasons
umbral reef
I dont know, can we?
umbral reef
Tbh it really depends if im consumer service mode or normal lac mode
costumer*
You know what im not even gonna try again
i know i want to type consumer but ree
faint skiff
Also the Quest doesn't seem to be able to play and charge indefinitely. I've been getting battery drain while it's plugged in after an hour or so, so another thing to be aware of.
lunar cedar
I wonder how the rift s would fair with an amd 570 chipset. Some of those mb are pure USB 3.1 gen 1/2
tawny ore
Ewww; gross
umbral reef
Pretty sure thats just a heating problem enverex
faint skiff
But yeah, as someone with a Quest, just don't buy one for PCVR, just don't.
tawny ore
I love my x470 with terrible VRM's
umbral reef
Charing is in this day and age is limited by heat
tawny ore
I don't know, my switch hasn't exploded yet... and I could cook pancakes on that thing when it's been running something in TV mode (release day serial number)
Oh I forgot what someone said... quest doesn't support fast charging
faint skiff
The Switch isn't strapped to your face though, so thermals are less important
ruby needle
Thermals are always important
tawny ore
This is very true. You have a point.
faint skiff
I didn't say they weren't important, I said they were less important.
tawny ore
Actually... you say that - but there's switch VR on the way
faint skiff
The back of the Switch could get very hot with no side effects. The Quest cannot because it'll start burning your face.
tawny ore
Lots of fried faces coming up
umbral reef
switch vr is a gimick and is the nr1 way to get motion sickness
ruby needle
the reason for the switch is that the backplate is actually one of the 2 radiation surfaces actively used for cooling, the second beeing the little radiator with the fan
tawny ore
It's fine, they'll just run liquid oxygen through the faceplate and cool you down to a comfortable -150C
tawny ore
Yap, after a few milliseconds you feel no heat or cold
umbral reef
Thats not the problem
next cypress
why am i getting kicked out of the vrchat website?
tawny ore
Anyway! None of us plan to use quest as primary PCVR brain pain inducer
Nezuko why have you got a hat this time, get back in your box
next cypress
i log in and then i get kicked right back out
tawny ore
I blame the VRChat economy
Insufficient headpats received to keep you logged in
It honestly could be anything. It's VRChat so very little of note actually functions as it should
ruby needle
Make sure the website is allowed to save a cookie and that scripts are allowed.
faint skiff
@tawny ore You say that, the amount of "No-one needs a Rift S! It's dead, everyone should get a Quest! It's the future of VR" was unbelievable.
ruby needle
The quest is actually very appealing with official support for PC
cus you have a universal solution
you can take it with you anywhere if you want to
ivory axle
gamers rise
tawny ore
Oh I know, but I also knew that Quest has inferior functionality even if connected to a PC (judging by how Rift S requires a DP and USB 3)
ruby needle
nah thats not as easy as saying that
faint skiff
@ruby needle But it's a bad PCVR experience.
ruby needle
the official linking isn't even out yet is it?
ivory axle
i notcied on facebook quest is doing a demo for hand tracking like no controllers needed which is cool
wHo nEeDs InDeX
tawny ore
Watch it will come out and it'll be USB C -> USB3, DP, HDMI, AC-Plug and a corvette turbocharger
All to be run simultaneously
ruby needle
nah the quest is not gonna have the C with video, and most definitely not capable as a video source 
it's gonna work like the hacked soulution trough wireles but over a wire insted
so faster and stable
broken plover
I think hand tracking without controller is a pretty stupid idea actually. Like how are you gonna move in games like vrchat
ivory axle
oh yeah forgot about that @broken plover
faint skiff
It doesn't need to be out, even not factoring in the cable it already has issues against it (being one of the most uncomfortable and heavy headsets, definitely one of the hottest, etc). Then the video quality with FFR, resolution, etc. But yeah.
ivory axle
dance dance revolution mat to walk lmao
next cypress
how do i make sure the website is allowed to save a cookie and that scripts are allowed?
ivory axle
chants fUlL bOdY fOr OcUlUs
ruby needle
@faint skiff nah, dont junge on a thing not out yet.
next cypress
i allowed the cookie
ruby needle
USB3 should be capable to push the full resolution trough with a slight unnoticeable compression.
Heat is propably not gonna be that big of issue anymore when the main rendering is outside the headset.
Since the hardware wont be pushed nearly as hard as if it natively runs the game
broken plover
wasnt index also getting pretty hot?
umbral reef
Most headsets get hot
The problem with the quest is that it runs of a battery that heats up and while charging heats up even more
Wait, how will it actually work when its connected to a pc
will it also charge then or will you need a second cable
faint skiff
@ruby needle These are already stated details. And it doesn't matter what they do software wise, it's not going to make the headset any less uncomfortable.
@broken plover I went from a Vive to Index and didn't notice any increase in heat.
The Quest runs an entire phone and battery inside itself as well as all normal headset hardware though which obviously makes it a lot hotter.
glad bolt
Mine gets hot after two and a half hours of play. 🤔
broken plover
I heard some people talking about how the index is getting really hot, but idk. I dont have one myself
glad bolt
There's a way to put a fan in the fronk to keep it cool, gonna inquire about that soon.
ruby needle
i can't imagine the index not getting hot running all the cameras, and thant also its dispalys which are high refresh
faint skiff
The Index doesn't run cameras (unless you turn them on, and then they're only on when you're using them). I've been running my panels at 120Hz.
ruby needle
i dont mean the front facing cameras
broken plover
the lighthouse sensor things?
ruby needle
no
faint skiff
What cameras?
ruby needle
the sensors that track the laser grid... which are cameras, kinda.
faint skiff
The IR sensors, and AFAIK those don't generate any heat.
broken plover
thats what I meant with "lighthouse sensor things"
ruby needle
Normal IR sensors wouldnt generate any heat, but since when are they normal IR sensors.
They need to be able to track the grid generated by the lighthosues, a stupid IR sensor can only know it gets hit, but that would need an extreme fine grid and would not be able to generally orient the HMD in the room, only relative movement if at all
Correct me if im wrong
Unless you mean IR Cameras.
faint skiff
Sure, but that doesn't mean they'll get hot. But TL;DR, the headset doesn't seem to get any hotter than the Vive. People just became obsessed with cooling because it has space to attach something and lots of people play sweaty games like Beatsabre where it would be nice to have a way to cool yourself down.
ruby needle
@deep sandal can you please not trow in random responsesn then?
Look up one of the language channels or remain silent. Thank you.
@faint skiff cameras no matter if normal or IR can generate quite a lot of heat
at least in a big array that becomes not ignoreable
faint skiff
I mean I'm not sure what you want me to say here. I'm speaking with first hand experience of using the headset for like 5 hours a day in VR Chat.
ruby needle
Dont get me wrong that was abotu that first part of your last response.
Doesnt mean it can't have a good heat management as an HMD.
faint skiff
I'd expect the IR sensors on the headset to at least feel warm if they were generating notable amounts of heat.
ruby needle
it you touch a camera lense it wont fee warm, the whole camera it self tho will.
you'd have to touch it in the inside not the outside facing part 
But that still wasnt the point.
faint skiff
A camera lens isn't really attached to the IC though, where as with the IR sensors, they are - https://www.roadtovr.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/triad-TS3633-CM1-Next-to-a-Dime.jpg
ruby needle
True on that first one, but most of the heat still gets generated around the chip and even if the lenses are directly attached, it still doesnt transfere well outside.
Regardess, index doesnt heat up that bad to your subjective feeling and thats fine.
compact river
Its really cool
ruby needle
I do belive you tho.
ruby needle
Rift is in disadvantage due to permanently running IR LED's all around
S and WMR due to multiple actually runing cameras and the processor that needs to drive them and calculate everything
Quest for the same plus the main SOC
compact river
Things hot
ruby needle
which one did you have i might ask?
ruby needle
to be fair, the lenovo, allthough one of the common ones, is also one of the cheapest isnt it
compact river
Not sure it was reveiwed as one of the better
Of the bunch
Before oddesy was a thing
ruby needle
i havent dived to much into WMR, but yeah you hear that oddesy feedback a lot
but it's more costy isnt it
lunar cedar
$300 is the price about 50% of the time
compact river
Tbh not sure if windows mixed reality is worth it at that price seeing as i would feel like crap if i had it on more than 2 hours
But it worked just so i could have vr waiting for index
ruby needle
they are still a good entry, allthough rift S exists now
lunar cedar
Huh, I've never had an issue with the o+. My vr sessions usually last 8-10 hours
The only thing that makes me sick is trying to do that circular full body walk. idk how anyone does that without throwing up
compact river
I dont think you understand how shit none odessy wmr is
ruby needle
i think it's more of a personal expectation.
many people where happy with their lenovo explorer as a entry.
compact river
But vr is still fun even with a face oven
next cypress
how do you move around in vrchat with cosmos?
lunar cedar
lol, I've never heard anything good about it so far xD. But at least 3 of 4 wmr users I've met use o/o+
ruby needle
I personally would propably never be happy with one tho
faint skiff
The main issue with the O+ is that it's basically America only, AFAIK
compact river
Ya my Canadian friends get marked up like 2x
ruby needle
the Lenovo one was 200$-250$ regularely
here it was the price of an OG rift
basically all the time
and at that price point definitely not worth, except if you want a mobile vr
(mobile for use with laptop)
lunar cedar
or truly mobile if you carry around a backpack and a 20lb battery pack.
lunar cedar
Especially if the laptop has a powerful gpu and cpu. 20lb battery for the 10 hour sessions
You'd get exercise too
compact river
Who has free time for 10 hours
faint skiff
And if anyone is wondering just what worlds look like on the Quest, well if you remember the Black Cat world, this is what it looks like on Quest (images are NOT compressed, this is actually how it looks)
compact river
In a row
faint skiff
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/610651208767504427/627581547741970443/com.vrchat.oculus.quest-20190903-203631.jpg
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/610651208767504427/627581569053491250/com.vrchat.oculus.quest-20190903-203726.jpg
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/610651208767504427/627581625735184385/com.vrchat.oculus.quest-20190903-203659.jpg
lunar cedar
I do when I pretend I need 10 hours to test my latest driver build
oh god, is that really how it looks?
lunar cedar
I could just remove my glasses to smooth it out. Problem fixed
faint skiff
Yes, it genuinely looks that bad, lol
You do get weird looks from people seeing a Trusted User on Quest though which is amusing.
lunar cedar
So the lens doesn't dejag those jags at all?
ruby needle
this is a screenshot of the renderer, but i dont see how the lenses would det rid of it
faint skiff
Nope, that's the fixed foveated rendering
You basically can't look outside the centre of the image else it's a pixelated mess
ruby needle
unfortunately FOVeated rendering is not much worth without an eye sensor
tho, the PC based renderer doesnt need to have it forced from a technical standpoint
if thats why you provide the screenshots.
faint skiff
It's basically a desperation move on the Quest to try and lower the rendering requirements.
ruby needle
Yeah, the hardware in the Quest isn't the most powerfull 
faint skiff
I thought people would find them interesting because I've never seen in-game screenshots from the Quest posted by anyone else before
ruby needle
as much as it's awfull comming from a pc in comparrison
it doesnt mean its absolutely unusable as its thing
lunar cedar
The center of the image does look nice
ruby needle
it's still heaps better than any smartphone VR and it still alows you to play rather then not having the option to
faint skiff
The unfortunate thing is how empty the Quest worlds have to be to get any decent performance. Petey's world was actually struggling a bit and we were the only two there.
ruby needle
Yeah, that's a bummer indeed
lunar cedar
You'd probably just need to get used to looking with your head instead of your eyes
faint skiff
One thing that sets expectations though is on the loading screens, the actual info boxes look like low res JPEGs. That didn't fill me with confidence, lol.
ruby needle
gotta save that flash space, and save ram
unfortunately also one of the big issues with the quest
faint skiff
faint skiff
The top bit doesn't normally look that bad, it's just at the edge of vision, but the "NEW" bit does look like that even if you look straight at it.
ruby needle
The "new" bit isn't too awfull imo.
yes, its low rez, yes it'll be blurry streching it to the desired size but not unbearable
In the end its a quest, you get a VR headset PLUS the hardware driving it all in one box for that pricing and fully mobile.
It's not gonna be perfect for sure. But thats not it's job. (Even if they could have gone for a little bit better spec in terms of ram and maybe the GPU chip since it was a budget option by the time allready)
Tho the limitations in terms of its Renderer (forced FOVeated) and Ram are not a limitation when used with the PC
So it has potentiall to look noticeably better with the link.
lunar cedar
Didn't they say they would use fixed foveation to reach lossless compression?
ruby needle
really
lunar cedar
That's what I heard from a lot of people after that event happened. I never confirmed it myself though, considering I don't have a quest
ruby needle
that's a stupid move. why would they do that 
lunar cedar
Better lossless compression would increase the minimum specs requirement I would guess
ruby needle
encoding a high bitrate stream is barely any efford
lunar cedar
It is when it has realtime constraints
faint skiff
The Quest actually looks pretty good if you use VirtualDesktop to stream at the full headset res (with no FFR either) with SuperSampling in SteamVR. Doesn't negate the screen door or lack of comfort, but at least the screen looks quite good.
ruby needle
^this is what i expect oculus to do.
Just at more fidelity thanks to not using wireless
faint skiff
Oculus said they'd use FFR and lower than panel res though (for whatever reason, I assume latency?)
lunar cedar
Maybe they'll just detect better PCs and automatically turn it off, but I think they still are trying target the lower budget consumers with the quest link.
ruby needle
Thats dumb, i can totally understand your complain than
it's the most idiotic decission they can make tho
@lunar cedar the main limit to work with is the USB3 bandwith here
not the PC behind it
faint skiff
But yeah, I can't understate how uncomfortable it is. It's worse than the original Vive.
It's not the strap, it's the headset itself.
lunar cedar
A more powerful PC would be able to run a higher compression ratio while maintaining realtime constraints.
Getting to 5Gbps from 9.6Gbps is entirely based on the power of the PC. You could do entirely lossless without res drop or ffov if you had an i9
ruby needle
honestly, a slight loss, like not full color spectrum would allready save quite some bandwith without beeing much noticeable
lunar cedar
I think what they talked about at the event was just possibilities. The only thing that's clear is that they're trying to remove as much data as possible before doing the compression (whether it ends up lossless or not). Cutting stuff it has near zero perf cost, but compression doesn't.
faint skiff
It should be done entirely on GPU anyway, they're not going to use CPU video encoding with time constraints like this, it would murder performance.
lunar cedar
I'm not sure if GPUs would be good for that in this case. They may max out the device-to-host bandwidth.
GPUs are better for tasks that can process a ton on device only memory and only send back small pieces to the host.
ruby needle
GPU's have separate chips for encoding and decoding tasks
the device to host bandwith is definitely also not the issue here
if you've ever seen big productions with OBS and how many stuff they have processing on the GPU besides oder stuff
this is not gonna be even close to that
lunar cedar
OBS bitstream coming out of the GPU is several megabits, not gigabits
ruby needle
im not talking about the final stream encoding
but the compositing, which back and forth data. (and many of it)
lunar cedar
The chips on GPUs are not designed for this case at all
ruby needle
I highly doubt bandwith is gonna be an issue when you can see experients like sawing open x1 (or was it x4?) slots to fit in GPU's which are designed for x16
allthough at that lane cout, yes there is a slight bottleneck when fully pushing it... but... les bad than one might think... so
Long story short, im very certain GPU bandwith is not gonna be an issue in regards to that at all.
It's not like we send a hundred data streams to it, we send one (or even take it directly of the framebuffer) and receive it to send it out with the USB data
lunar cedar
Not sure what GPUs being able to run in x4 slots has to do with this, but you're right GPU bandwidth would probably not be saturated.
ruby needle
well x4 has noticebly less bandwith potential thant x16 due do clearly missing lanes for data transfere, thats what i was getting at
In the end we can only wait and see what actually gets implemented by Oculus
lunar cedar
It's strange, trying to look up GPGPU compression leads to projects that died 5+ years ago. The only one that seems up to date is a CUDA implementation
ruby needle
grim canopy
Good Morning VRChat...
ruby needle
Morning 
faint skiff
GPUs have had built in 8K hardware encoders for a while, and 4K for a long while before that and they're designed for high bitrate. I think on my VirtualDesktop setup, it creates a 96Mb video stream (nearly double the higher end Blu-Rays).
ruby needle
the issue is more on the raw end of bandwith and all potentioal steps till the end result not the final data stream
faint skiff
Well with VD, I had it set to supersample, so it would have been pushing, what, 2800x2600 per eye into the encoder?
ruby needle
I agree that it shouldnt have any issue as stated before. Allthought VD uses lossy and slower compression.
still very quick and would be the one they should go to for quest rather then limit it's fidelity, but you dont know what way oculus will want to use.
faint skiff
Not sure how they could push lossless, that's an insane amount of bandwidth it would need to push over the USB connection. Can the Quest end even take that sort of bandwidth?
ruby needle
lossless data and a visually/technically lossless compression is 2 different things
for example archives like winrar and such
they are lossless compressed
the data is exactly the same afterwards but it does get compressed as an archive and needs to be decompressed afterwards to regain the original data
while JPEG and its artifacts come from a lossy compression
you save a lot of data but do not get the exact same endresult
rough pulsar
There are lossless compressed video codecs around. What matters is if the quest can decode whatever is being sent down the line to it, and usually with that kind of thing some kind of hardware assistance is used.
ruby needle
the quest isnt stone old hardware and the GPU can definitely work with a normal compression a GPU hardware encoder would use
faint skiff
Not sure what was with that paragraph of stuff about artefacting...
rough pulsar
It does depend on the codec since there's hardware decoders for things like h.264 and such.
faint skiff
I was referring to Paul's comment about lossless stuff. Lossy to lossless bitrates are a big jump, my point was that mobile devices often can't push anywhere near the spec'd speeds for ports, so if they're trying to push two large video streams over that USB connection, can the Quest's USB port even handle that sort of data transfer speed?
lunar cedar
Being able to use an decoder doesn't imply it can do so in realtime at that resolution and compression setting.
Maybe they'll just put an ASIC into the link cable instead.
nvm, they already priced the cable so it's probably too late. Check out the diagram though 
https://www.androidcentral.com/sites/androidcentral.com/files/styles/w830_wm_brw/public/article_images/2019/09/oculus-link-system-pipeline.jpg?itok=eKhYKJXQ
slim temple
The quest adapter is fiber optic
lunar cedar
That's for length purposes
slim temple
they are able to do 5m by converting the bytestream to flex optical then back again
lunar cedar
I was referring to the "latency mitigation" mystical part of that diagram
slim temple
right, but they are able to do the resolution without loss at that distance thanks to that. A short usb c cable can do more than 8k 8bpp 120hz so
faint skiff
Gonna be expecting a lot of people complaining their cables stopped working. Fibre cables are notorious for tiny fractures and breaks over time.
slim temple
well, part of what is going to make it much faster will be the fact that all the tracking and controller tracking and input will be done on the hmd
spacewarp and such done on the hmd
none of that on pc. The quest will have the lowest requirements of any pc headset by far, wit the lowest cpu requirements too
faint skiff
@slim temple You're missing the point that the Quest won't be using a video output, e.g. Display Port or whatever, the bottleneck will be how it'll encode/decode the video stream. It's not a direct display output like normal headsets use.
slim temple
I understand that. This is literally my job
faint skiff
So why did you mention the cable length and video resolution when no-one brought it up? 😛
slim temple
they're still doing a compositor. The quest also has a samsung 835, I can show you the gpu decode/encode matrix if you want from the cpu's spec
they can do a perceptually lossless realtime encode and even utilize the soc to do the decoding for the pc over usb
if they're smart about it
lunar cedar
We all know it exists, but can it do that in realtime. I mean, that diagram even suggests they have to do something to make the latency not noticeable.
slim temple
and since this is carmack's baby, they probably are. :p
yeah, the main reason why is the hardware soc
ruby needle
ultra low latency
faint skiff
"utilize the soc to do the decoding for the pc over usb" - What would the PC be decoding?
slim temple
same reason your cell phone can record 4k video at 120hz and not freak out but you do that on your cpu on a desktop at home without NVenc or AMDVE and your computer slows to a crawl
lunar cedar
Yea, it can do that because it's not realtime at all....
slim temple
Enverex: there has to be a video bytestream regardless.
faint skiff
What? The video is going from the PC to the headset, not vice versa. So what would the PC be decoding here? It would be encoding, but I'm not sure what you're implying that it would be decoding..
slim temple
no, I'm saying that the hmd will do both. That's also why the quest can stream video to facebook without hindering your game. The diagram posted above clearly shows the pc doing the encoding
So, they'll likely have your pc doing literally JUST that, and the hmd will be feeding predicted positional data with rollback code to the pc
won't be too dissimilar to ALVR, but it'll be a lot less work for the pc generally speaking
ironically by doing a video encode they can also do nifty tricks like antialiasing on the hmd during the decode instead of making your gpu do it. 😛
faint skiff
So you're implying that the PC will be sending a raw 2880x1600 video stream to the headset? Which would be just shy of.... 10Gbps? lol
slim temple
well, it could, that would be fine. USB 3.0 is capible of more than 4 times that with 5ms latency or less
but they won't, i'm sure
faint skiff
USB 3 theoretically is. You really think this SoC can push 10Gbps (keep in mind that that's JUST the video stream) for hours?
slim temple
so, that's what I mean. It's entirely likely that they'll do a decode AND a realtime encode to further clean the image up to get around compression issues and load issues, but on the hmd
lunar cedar
Not it most certainly is not. USB 3.1 gen 2 is. This is a USB 3.1 gen 1 port with 5Gbps of bandwidth
ruby needle
to keep it as compatible as possible id try to fit it to 3.0 tho
which for the quest and its target audience would make the most sense imo
faint skiff
Lhun, you remind me a lot of the Quest subreddit, in that your concept of the headset appears to be mostly fantastical and not in any way grounded in reality...
slim temple
3.0 can do that with packet buffering, not raw, so you're half right, but yes, it'll be 3.0 and 3.1+ capible. The 835 has it's limits too. The hardware is only capible of usb up to a certain spec.
Enverex: I'm a systems analyst and qa for a multinational digitial signage company
I live and breathe high resolution display specifications. We often deploy screens at 13440x1080 plus, raw 1:1 resolution.
faint skiff
You've just told me, unironically, that you think a PC is going to stream uncompressed video to the Quest...
slim temple
and, we do so in some cases on the same qualcomm hardware
faint skiff
Keep in mind that Oculus' own comments were that it would be A) compressed, B) use fixed foveated rendering and C) not be full panel res. That's pretty much the opposite of this idea that it can magically take an entire full 2880x1600x32 stream over the USB tether.
slim temple
no, I don't think it will, there will be an encode. But it could if people had the hardware widely, but they don't. USB-c alternate mode is essentially displayport 1.4 or better, which is more than capible of that.
I think by doing an encode the result will be very nice.
There's still a tradeoff, your chip or gpu needs the soc encoder level that's good enough. They're very likely going to do a "best encode" path to minimize latency generally, but, for example, using NVEnc while also trying to render a game isn't always the best way to go, but it can still be very good
fun fact: the 835 soc also has the capibility to run a 60ghz 802.11 ay device
faint skiff
Alternate mode is something else entirely and the Quest doesn't support it.
slim temple
actually it does, it's just not utilized
the 835 is in the galaxy s8 and better, and they all support it. It's in the soc
the custom version of android they're running and the way the usb port is set up does not use it
but the chip is the chip. It's just an actively cooled snapdragon 835. Everything that chip can do is fixed. If they hooked up the bga pins or not on their mainboard is another story
but it certainly can. Besides, we're talking about the other direction here.
like, I literally have a usb-c to dp alternate mode cable sitting right here, on my desk. The os has to expose the function, and the port has to be configured for the board, but it's there in the chip, even if it's unused. That's tangential however and really not relevant. The point is there's lots of ways to have enough bandwidth without buffering, which unfortunately is one trade off you can't have here
ruby needle
The statement is correct tho, their rom doesnt support it, thus the Quest doesnt support it.
no matter if the hardware is theoretically capable of it. (And if the port isnt capable of it too cus the way it's set up its not even arguably a utilization issue)
the quest is the whole thing together and as that it doesnt support it.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
next cypress
what would the best vr for pc be in your guys's opinion?
plucky brook
Full dive
next cypress
huh?
lunar cedar
fiber optics into brain tissue
covert blade
One can dream
faint skiff
Index, Vive Pro, Rift S, Odyssey+ are all good. Probably recommended in that order (Vive Pro second hand though, as the price is stupid new).
lunar cedar
If price doesn't matter index > vive pro > rift s > odyssey+, if it does odyssey+ > rift s > index > vive pro
vocal shard
Only the Vive pro if it's drastically discounted imo. Even used, it's still a similar price to the index, and at that point, you may as well get an index.
faint skiff
The full Vive Pro kit is going for <£600 on eBay here where as the Index kit is £920.
Hence why I said if you get it second hand 😉
vocal shard
If you want screen clarity
Index>Rift S>Vive Pro>Odyssey+
Least SDE
Odyssey+>index>Rift S>Vive pro
Best tracking
Index=Vive pro>rift S>Odyssey+
Second hand here, the Vive pro is still more than an index
faint skiff
Where are you?
vocal shard
Canada
faint skiff
Ahhh. Figures.
placid roost
right
yesterday i was in an avatarworld, can't find it today
i remember that you can change avatars in a compact panel, there was a ramp for small avatars, most of the world is an empty box
oh and theres 2 panels
covert blade
So are there actually any news regarding Index shipments to 🇨🇦 ?
vocal shard
covert blade
Of course
I mean I'm German I don't have that problem but c'mon Valve, people want it
faint skiff
I assume once demand has stabilised or they've managed to ramp up production, they'll release it globally. At least I hope they do...
glad bolt
Would be a huge loss if they didn't.
faint skiff
Indeed. That's why I assume it's just a stock level thing, they'd be overwhelmed if they opened it up now, before they could fulfill even a fraction of what they estimate.
faint musk
how do u rank up faster
glad bolt
By playing the game normally
covert blade
ranks are useless change my mind
glad bolt
I wholeheartedly agree with this statement
cold talon
by using my totally legit fast ranking super hackxzor application, all you have to do is plug in your game credentials, credit card number and the little code on the back and you are set
glad bolt
👌
faint skiff
Ranks are useful so you know who's been playing the game longer, and also so I can avoid visitors because 99% of the time they are desktop users and don't give a crap about personal space / etiquette / not standing IN VR users.
sullen escarp
ranks made this game worse, change my mind
covert blade
Enverex, I have nametags off. Like I could tell who's what rank
Besides I had annoying "Trusted" users too who do exactly what you just said so like, 🤷
So for me the rank isn't even considered when deciding how to react towards another user with the exception that I'm somewhat spooked by a flood of purple name tags
pure hemlock
Ranks are great they should add more so I can show off how elite I am
covert blade
Petition to re-add veteran rank?
pure hemlock
Yes of course I need something new to flaunt about to people
broken plover
heck yeah lmao
compact river
No thanks
covert blade
Let's have some prestige ranks too with duo-colored name tags
And extra icons next to the name
compact river
broken plover
add premium rank
snow wadi
Favorite Slots 8x DLC
sullen escarp
paid user rank-up
pure hemlock
Pay to enable emission tattoo's on your avatars
tacit plank
Trusted is already easy to get, I could probably manage in a week
vocal shard
Not really a fair statement when
A: you already know the game and how the system works from years of playing
B: you already have friends who can help you rank up a new account
sullen escarp
i probably wouldn't have kept playing vrchat if i had to start at visitor
just my 2 cents
muted tundra
Can add "clown" rank. You act like meme or edge lord.
desert stratus
arent we all clown rank?
broken plover
🤡
sullen escarp
🤡
slate verge
i'm not a clown, i'm a jester
muted tundra
Yep, we are clown family rank.
snow wadi
I honestly don't care about ranks, it's the person holding it that I'm concerned about.
slate verge
true
@desert stratus you and tripping should play Azure Beach
small, but decent puzzle map game
desert stratus
azure beach?
slate verge
its one of the vrc worlds
desert stratus
n0ted 0 0
slate verge
@snow wadi recommended for you too qhala <3
molten gale
wryy
glad bolt
Wyyyy
cobalt geode
So after buying a new PC, I decided to do more avatars DL'd unity (right version) DL'd latest sdk (as of today) so after doing rigging in blender, importing to unity, setting my fav Jean Moreno's MatCap Shader on it... boom There's no avatar descriptor in add component it doesn't come up when I type av-ava-desc etc. like it used to. What is wrong?
slate verge
that is probably the wrong unity version then
double check. if not then the assets were probably not imported.
languid beacon
Anything above user status is meaningless but there is legit reason to want to get to green. Blue gets you uploads and green gets you private world pedestal access
& labs submittion
cobalt geode
Version is 2017.4.28f1 which is the right version, that's not the version thing otherwise SDK simply tells you your version is wrong
umbral reef
Check for red console errors
sharp saddle
How the hell do you use the buttons on the camera on the Oculus?
It's like you have to have your hands at a very specific area just to get them to highlight.
slate verge
i know right its annoying and unclear how to use it
@sharp saddle from experiences and its odd, but the triggers seems to be the pointing line
covert blade
I say it's pretty much random
Even if I move around my hand in front of the buttons it sometimes won't highlight
A problem that isn't exclusive to the camera, btw. Depending on the world you might find it difficult to highlight the correct object too
lunar cedar
Those cameras are just as difficult to click on wmr. I usually hold the camera out like a bow and put my other hand like I'm pulling the string to get the buttons to highlight.
lunar shell
Is there a canny to fix the camera yet?
covert blade
Really the only semi reliable way to use the camera is holding it in one hand, so that the camera itself doesnt highlight and then move your hand to the side of the buttons until it eventually highlights
And as I said, it's not exclusive to the camera. I've been in an UNO world and objects further away were highlighted even though I had something to interact with much closer
umbral reef
edgy
vocal shard
:/
past vapor
Question, if i go on vrchat and clean out my friends list, would my rank be affected
cause im trusted user right now but i have to get rid of a large group of people
and i dont want to derank myself by doing so
or should i do it a little at a time, like remove 10 people every hour or so
vocal shard
There have been some reports from people of that happening. I think it's probably due to the game not knowing the difference between you unfriending someone, and someone unfriending you... So all the game sees is a bunch of people suddenly unfriend you and thinks you did something to deserve that.
But that's speculation
slate verge
well my ex unfriended me and i was promoted to trusted user so thats weird
past vapor
^ lmao, they were holding you back
slate verge
it wasn't a satisfying promotion
vocal shard
past vapor
To be on the safe side, imma unfriend people a little at a time and hope nothing happens
slate verge
just remove alot of them anyway you can always rank up if you are planning on staying in vrc for awhile
its not like having the highest rank gives you any benefits
past vapor
good point good point.
I have no intentions of ever leaving vrchat anyway
slate verge
see~
so if you're a streamer and youtuber and kept making videos everyday, well...theres your experiences for getting those ranks up
i went back to green cuz purple is too overrated
past vapor
I just have to unfriend people cause people only friend me for my streams and videos and social presence. Its kinda sad since i dont have any main group or feel like some of them are my actual friends and i just gotta get rid of the majority and keep those i actually want to be around.
vocal shard
Awww 
slate verge
if you'd like i can suggest one of my friends for you, he's a streamer and just recently got affiliated
umbral reef
I can suggest that you dont stream everything you do and the people chilling with you then are proper friends
Those who only join once you stream are well, easy to remove then
slate verge
yeah its easy to determine some are real friends and some aren't
try playing vrc on certain days that you don't stream and see who joins you
vocal shard
Mhmm. It's nice knowing who like you for you
past vapor
I dont stream everything i do, i barely stream actually. my living conditions and laptop messed up and im on a hiatus from vrchat streaming.
But i also have an instagram for vrchat photos that has its own little fanbase to it and people add me off there too.
Nobody really hangs out with me whenever im not streaming or doing anything, everyone already has their own group or cliche. i just end up lurking, taking photos for instagram, and leaving.
vocal shard
you're still welcome to join me whenever. Too bad we're not on at the same time as often anymore
ripe bronze
Anyone else getting a problem where you try to join a room and your sent straight to the default home world
sour lily
damn...
slate verge
@ripe bronze that usually means the world you're joining is bugged for you
sour lily
i dont stream so i cant feel what you must feel...
i cant stream actually, internet speed way too low.
slate verge
@past vapor don't worry you'll find the right group of people
ripe bronze
how do i fix that? @slate verge
sour lily
my pc can handle it but my internet is a huge bottleneck
slate verge
@ripe bronze you can't, its the instance id that is broken. Would need to ask a friend to host a new instance.
and if that doesn't work, its probably your internet.
past vapor
my pc can let me stream desktop mode, but its not the same. @sour lily
ripe bronze
aah ok
past vapor
@ripe bronze make sure you have space on your computer for worlds. The ehh, vrchat cache. Make sure thats okay as well.
ripe bronze
aah ok thank you @past vapor
past vapor
long time ago i couldnt load worlds cause my storage was full, i had to do a lot of moving and cleaning to get it all to work
i think i redirected the cache to a bigger drive tho so im good
sour lily
dont be me. seriously.
https://a.vin.pet/i/knr069eh.png
past vapor
thats a lot of space, but why is it all on C omg
OH u just made me check my space and its really bad
vocal shard
today is my 6th day in vr i wanted to know how to make my own avatars can someone teach me? PLease
sour lily
sadly im not the social tab so
desert stratus
streaming vrchat honestly just sounds like the most stressful thing to do. i dont know how people do it.
slate verge
@desert stratus for fun maybe?
devout island
i did it once and it was kinda fun
vocal shard
Yo anyone selling secondhand Vive trackers? I want full body but Kinect is stupid
slate verge
selling is forbidden here
ruby needle
Indeed this is not the right place for either selling or searching
i highly recommend to be very carefull if you have gotten any responses.
use trusted selling platforms to search for these parts
sterile ingot
I got mine directly from the Vive website.
pseudo basalt
Check the vrc traders discord in #community-servers-old
vocal shard
How can I get permission to advertise my twitch channel?
rigid crescent
vocal shard
Yeah I stream vrchat
vocal shard
Thank you!
glad bolt
You're welcome
glad bolt
If FPaul agreed with the statement, it's understood you don't sell here.
slate verge
its not my call, but its probably right not to do those activities here regardless since it falls under the trading and that may or may not be illegal activities i don't know...
glad bolt
That and you don't want to run the risk of getting scammed.
molten gale
Yeah
glad bolt
Potato, tomato.
hollow sluice
@vocal shard theres a guide for this made by vrchat
grim canopy
Goodnight VRChat!!! 
Wishes Out...
vocal shard
i wont bring it up here again, i understand. but buying things secondhand is how most things are purchased...literally has nothing illegal about it lmao
marsh fiber
cold talon
Is it tho, is it
hollow sluice
Well I bought my vive wecond hand and got scammed so Its safe to say I wont Be buying expensive things used ever again
wind totem
@hollow sluice did you make a police report about it?
faint skiff
Or a chargeback on the payment method used...
hollow sluice
We payed in hand
We knew where the dude lived
You see he sold us the headset with one broken base station. So We kimda threatened HIM to give us money back for that one base station and bought a New one
covert blade
You can get pretty lucky with used items though
hollow sluice
Other than the base stationg the headest was mint condition
So for 330€ its not too bad
ivory axle
Ive seen some fullkit htc vives be sold for 200
faint skiff
Yeah, they seem to go for around £250 here
It literally costs more to buy 2 new v2 base stations than it does for an entire Vive kit, it's crazy.
ivory axle
I feel like theres gonna be a breakthrough with VR that will be somewhat more reasonably priced in the future so im waiting before i upgrade
Not breakthrough but like something much better
faint skiff
People think the same about all hardware to be honest. Doesn't really happen, it's almost always incremental.
lunar cedar
the next-gen console vr will be at the end of 2020 if that's what you're looking for. When you factor in the system to run the vr's cost, then that's reasonably priced and probably will include many things that are better.
faint skiff
Although for the price that also means there will be many compromises. We know nothing about what next gen console VR will be or that it will even exist at this point.
lunar cedar
Both PSVR and xbox vr designs were patented just a couple weeks ago
xbox will have standard fbt and both are considering optional eye tracking
Well, they sent the patent applications in and you can read them. One sec, I have the xbox vr patent somewhere
US20190302903
There's also a rumour that that next xbox will function exactly like a desktop, though details of that level aren't in the patent
faint skiff
I mean, you have to factor in cost here... it can't be everything for the price people expect to pay for a console.
lunar cedar
I don't mean to say the next xbox will come with vr. It's still going to be an expensive purchase
Probably over $1000 total
hollow sluice
well will the xbox vr actually be good though?
standard FBT?!
I mean if we are talking kinect quality than its nothing to look forward to
faint skiff
No, super basic crap mods are on XBox
lunar cedar
I don't know if it will be good, I probably won't buy it but it's still interesting. At this point people can't tell that I'm not using vive trackers and the sensor I'm using is the one that will be apart of xbox vr
faint skiff
They have a load of limitations and a tiny filesize limit
@lunar cedar Doesn't your setup eat CPU though? I'm guessing you're thinking they'd have some chip dedicated to handling that on the new systems.
hollow sluice
so essentially quest limitations
faint skiff
Well no, I think the issue with Sony/Microsoft is that it's user generated content and is a minefield that those companies wouldn't want to deal with.
(rather than a hardware limitation)
lunar cedar
That's partially because of my VBS settings set to max, but yes the patent actually describes an additional device. Probably some sort of ASIC.
patents are fairly undetailed, so it's hard to say for sure what they'll do
ruby needle
Patents also dont mean that anything has to happen
There is tons of patents that havent been put to use at all.
lunar cedar
I only want to get cheaper sensors as a result, I don't actually care how crappy or good xbox vr will be.
hollow sluice
if its 2D tracking than I dont expect much
lunar cedar
But yes, my tracking uses about 1/3 of of GPU compute resources and 1 core of a 6700k.
It's a 3D imaging sensor
hollow sluice
what do you use?
lunar cedar
the azure kinect
hollow sluice
is it for developer purposes? never heard of the thing
lunar cedar
yes
hollow sluice
so thats the technology the xbox vr will use?
lunar cedar
Yep. Though it will probably be repackaged and hopefully cheaper
hollow sluice
right
I am getting the vive trackers soon. I have been waiting a long time for a cheaper FBT option but nothing has come at all so fuck it I will just buy the trackers
next cypress
please dm me if you're an oculus rift s user
pure hemlock
So how can I report public crasher avatars? Does reporting them in game do anything?
Was an avatar created by a trusted user, being used by a trusted user to attempt to crash people in murder because she was cranky for being shot. She accidently left cloning on, and suddenly everyone in the room cloned it. And then she crashed herself by accident.
pure hemlock
Does the in-game reporting for malicious avatar not actually .. do anything? Must I go significantly out of my way to prove it to the developers?
ruby needle
It does set some flags to my knowledge
However, purely ingame report does typically take way longer as it's way less detailed and needs more than just one report.
pure hemlock
If I report someone for using a malicious avatar, does it report the avatar or the user?
ruby needle
As i said, it does set flags, yes.
If many report the same avatar it'll also cause a action.
What im saying is a separate report besides the ingame report makes the process quicker as you can provide more detail and prove thant just the click of a button
pure hemlock
Yah I've sent video/log reports before but the lack of any kind of response is disheartening since I have no clue if they're actually doing anything. I like how Overwatch does it, you get a message saying your report helped take action against a user.
ruby needle
That is correct, you do not get a response to wether or not what action has been taken.
faint skiff
An in-game report system that doesn't seem to work and a long-winded manual reporting process with no feedback as to whether anything actually happened. I'm honestly amazed anyone reports anything.
pure hemlock
I use the in-game reports a lot but I feel like they just get sent to the abyss. I used to report with video footage/logs a lot but the lack of feedback, and the tedious process of having to prepare the report just makes it... not worth it. Shame like 10 people got their hands on a public crasher avatar last night but I wasn't recording at the time when it happened.
faint skiff
But enough time to ban users for using NSFW (but not actually NSFW) avatars, apparently.
ruby needle
what is actually NSFW for you, NSFW is way more than nudity
pure hemlock
NSFW is 90% of public avatars lately honestly
Would you show it at work? No? NSFW. And that's every single female avatar lately.
faint skiff
My avatar I was banned for was a slime girl avatar that has no explicit textures, no modelled "bits" and is made entirely of transparent water. It's considerably less NSFW than most public avatars I see these days in public worlds. Took the team 7 days to respond to my email (with a 5 word reply, after my 2 paragraph query) after they claimed they didn't receive it in the first place (which they did, because I have the logs from both my side and Google's - not only that, I'd emailed about something else before which they did respond to).
So yeah, maybe someone with an axe to grind, maybe just bad moderation in general, who knows.
still lark
Getting a response makes me wanna send more reports in
pure hemlock
Some of those slime girls had pretty visible areola's though and they wore no clothes, would that not be considered nudity at that point?
faint skiff
No areola, no nippes, nothing.
If that's nudity then everyone with a Nanachi needs to be banned too.
pure hemlock
🤷
faint skiff
That's what fucks me off though. Are you going to be banned today because they decided to arbitrarily enforce a rule on just you? Who knows. Want to appeal it? Good luck talking to a wall.
pure hemlock
Honestly Scruffy, if I knew my reports were getting these annoying edgy ass teenagers banned and losing their highly prized trusted user status, I would report much more often.
pure hemlock
I would be dedicated to running my video recording 24/7 and sitting down to report those annoying little shits lol
faint skiff
Someone posted a video of a streamer watching someone get crashed and then crashed themselves by someone so brazenly using a crasher...
I don't think many of them care because they know they can get away with it 99% of the time.
pure hemlock
Yah I saw that.. the crasher with the sephiroth avatar. Trusted user. I went on the site and blocked the crasher in case I ever run into him. But he wasn't banned yet when I looked him up.
Yah I have a few people in my larger friend group who have been crashing and ripping avatars for a year and a half now. Never banned. They're all like 15-18 years old and think they're bad ass as fuck.
still lark
You can't really tell if someone is banned
night mural
what about avatars that overlay an effect for everyone? nearly threw up because of it
night mural
it was seriously bad, I sent a ticket but reading the stuff here isn't exactly encouraging 😄
it's crazy disruptive, it overlays a glitch effect for everyone
pure hemlock
Safety settings is your best friend for stuff like that honestly
night mural
had a video so I hope that helps it along
yeah, fair. haven't played in ages so i seemed to fiddled with the wrong settings and it just allowed everything
pure hemlock
Yah you don't ever want to allow everything in public worlds. That's just asking for your eyes to be hammered by cancer and get a bad migraine or motion sickness.
still lark
I allow everything from user and up. xd
faint skiff
Allow everything for Visitors, disable everything for everyone else. Wildcard mode.
still lark
Brutal.
glad bolt
I only allow avatars and voices; no effects are allowed from anyone except friends.
still lark
At least show my shaders! xd
pure hemlock
No shaders or custom animations for anyone but friends...
silent whale
i used to allow custom animations but i disabled those bc it got so bad
glad bolt
I'm fed up with people, honestly.
faint skiff
Yeah, I'd turn on shaders else a large majority of avatars will look either bad, or completely broken.
glad bolt
Not had that problem.
pure hemlock
I enjoy finding insanely broken looking avatars with shaders disable though lol. Makes for a good screenshot collection
faint skiff
You will have had that problem, you just don't realise it
Even your own avatar, being a toon avatar, will look terrible with shaders off
covert blade
It's actually pretty interesting to see how avatars look with shaders off
silent whale
i can't tell you how many times I've seen avatars with normals flipped
covert blade
Some actually look better tbh...
still lark
I've actually seen avatars that look better with shaders off. xd
silent whale
yeah
glad bolt
It's my preference, though, but thanks anyway.
pure hemlock
Once my friend joined on us and we were all chilling, then someone joined who wasn't his friend and started laughing like crazy for like 10 minutes. His avatar had a pee pee you could only see with shaders disabled.
covert blade
...
silent whale
ouch
pure hemlock
It was a thing he had a emote toggle for but I guess he did it wrong lol
faint skiff
"Wow, why's your avatar so shiny?" Turn shaders on please. "Why does your avatar look like it's covered in latex?" .. turn shaders on please. "Why do you look like you're made from playdoh?" ... shaders please...
glad bolt
It's not like I run into public worlds 24/7. It's the "in case the Friends+" has extra randoms I never met before.
still lark
@faint skiff Standard?
covert blade
Tbh some avatars stop being so shiny with shaders off
glad bolt
^
covert blade
And I like that
glad bolt
Same.
covert blade
It looks so cheap when the avatar ignores the lighting
faint skiff
Depends on how the config options map back to the standard shader, or more often, how they don't.
still lark
VRC needs to copy over the metallic map, currently it doesn't.
covert blade
Buuut at the same time there's whitelisted "lit" shaders
faint skiff
None of the avatars I've been putting together ignore lighting, it looks terrible when they do.
glad bolt
I don't even ask people "Why X avatar looks like X", I come for the conversation.
covert blade
I refuse to use avatars that are permanently lit up
It's fine on certain parts like the eyes but if the whole body is like that, I'll hate it
glad bolt
Haha, like a walking glowstick.
faint skiff
@covert blade Anything using Ubershaders will end up with the reverse issue if you have shaders off. My avatar looks like a disco-ball in terms of reflections if you have shaders off as the fallback shader doesn't handle the metallic mapping properly and just applies it to everything.
covert blade
Lol
faint skiff
Same with my friend's avatar and specular mapping
glad bolt
That sounds like a pp
silent whale
my previous main avatar looked creepy to some people with shaders off
still lark
Perfect for Halloween.
silent whale
the eye turned all black bc the emission toggle doesn't fall back to standard
glad bolt
Omg, that's amazing.
silent whale
the map itself does, just not The fact it's enabled lmao
languid beacon
Still can’t figure out the proper way to turn blender pbr smoothness into unity roughness. Just inverting the image gets you most of the way there but it’s still too shiny
faint skiff
So here's what the avatar looks like with shaders off - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/629302253768933376/633679111016939531/unknown.png
And here's what it looks like with shaders on - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/361742235525709825/630097552280125440/unknown.png
Same issue with mine, the whole thing is just one giant mirror with shaders off, where as with shaders on, only the outer part of scales are reflective, like so - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/628102741037809666/632969768890007559/unknown.png
Other issues you commonly see are avatars which are just one solid colour, typically just a dark grey.
languid beacon
I recommend just making things look good on standard then you never have to worry about fallback
faint skiff
Standard has its limits.
still lark
Fallback system has its limits
languid beacon
Also nice avatars 👌
faint skiff
Sure, but I'm not going to make avatars look worse because some user arbitrarily decided to turn off a feature which they know will result in this issue. If you want safety, then enabling shaders but disabling custom animations seems to be 99.9% effective from my experience.
glad bolt
Again, pp
faint skiff
(I used to have shaders off and animations on, but this way around works better)
I mean it is, but you're basically just cheating yourself out of the experience with no benefit.
glad bolt
Not really??
still lark
You say pp but no one asked for your pp rn
glad bolt
If I have a conversation with a decent person and then add them, I get to see everything.
He's calling me out on my personal preference, so yes, Scruffy, he did.
faint skiff
I was just pointing out that I used to do the same thing as you, but it causes a lot of avatar issues (some of which are likely to be annoying for you, due to everything being handled wrongly by the fallback shader - so they could be offensively bright or reflective or such) so it's not a "fix" given that it causes many issues of its own.
glad bolt
None of these arguments are going to change the way I've been going about playing VRC. I've not had that issue yet with disabled shaders causing a problem. I don't even forsee that happening what with less of my interest going into public spaces.
I appreciate it nonetheless that you took the time to explain your half of the situation, though.
covert blade
You wont notice it if it works well
languid beacon
Easy way to get trust fast is have an avatar with clearly broken (but not intrusive) fallback shaders like the ones that turn you solid green. It makes everyone (even non-friends) show your avatar which builds trust fast :D
covert blade
But as soon as people are pure white, have boxes around them or text that's not supposed to render in idle you'll see the problem
So an avatar I would hate to use myself :x
glad bolt
Yeah, that's the only occasion, but most hidden people seem to standard shaders as far as I've seen.
They look a little "dated" for lack of a better word, but nothing visually offensive.
covert blade
I mean I play with safety off half the time anyways
Good thing the avatars I mainly use barely change with shaders off
glad bolt
Same!
covert blade
There is a special shader for the skin to make it look a bit better but other than the inside not rendering, you barely see a difference
Also, it 
languid beacon
Most people use all these custom toon shaders when you can make “toon/lit” look exactly the same and its whitelisted
covert blade
Yup
still lark
Yeah but what about muh rim glow and pulsating emission and and and stuff
glad bolt
Toony standard seems to have not let me down in regards to the disabled shaders situation.
covert blade
I dont even really know what toon looks like
glad bolt
It's like a small level below cel shaded design.
languid beacon
Rimglow is also whitelisted with the default matcap
distant dirge
Hi
languid beacon
Hello
distant dirge
Guys is my setup good for vr gaming?
CPU: Core i5 6600
RAM: 12GB DDR4
GPU: GTX 1050 ti
languid beacon
What fps do you get on desktop version?
ruby needle
CPU and RAM is fine but the Graphics Card isn't great for VR
its entry desktop gaming
distant dirge
i dont remember but it was above 60 FPS
languid beacon
If you can get at least 70~90 fps on VRChat desktop you’ll be fine on vr. Below that I’d worry about your specs before buying a headset
distant dirge
Guess i get more than 70 fps
languid beacon
Vr will get lower fps due to rendering it in stereoscopy
It depends on the person but for me I am only comfortable in vr 45 and above
nocturne stream
anyone else's vrchat slow?
mine just doesnt load anything in the menu
and wont load to any world except for my home world
twin fractal
@distant dirge if have the same graphics card and a worse cpu but I'm getting 70+ fps
faint skiff
@twin fractal In VR?
frosty drum
Hey does anyone or has anyone ever seen a coryxkenshin avatar
twin fractal
I'm streaming to my quest so the quality seems a bit down but the fps is around the same
faint skiff
With a 1050Ti?
faint skiff
I have a 2080Ti and I'm below 60fps a lot of the time unless I'm in a virtually empty world.
twin fractal
what VR headset are you using?
faint skiff
Index
lunar cedar
Something strange is going on there enve. When I'm running hmd only, I get 80-90 with a full jinja. * on a 1080
faint skiff
In worlds alone, I'll normally get 120. But if I'm with say, 3 or more people, it's very rare that I'll be over 80. Typically around 60.
broken plover
well the gpu isnt everything... What cpu do you have?
faint skiff
i7-8700 with 32GB of DDR4 3200Mhz.
broken plover
it like, shouldnt lag that much
lunar cedar
something funky is going on there. You're getting more lag than I do when I'm running fbt.
Send me that 2080ti and I'll test it for you :3
faint skiff
Haha
languid beacon
Also platform makes a huge difference. Oculus home gets at least twice the fps for me compared to the steam version
Steam version hates mirrors on my pc
faint skiff
Sounds like Steam's adding additional supersampling if that happens.
languid beacon
It just gets super laggy once the steam overlay has been opened and closed
Or if the headset is taken off and out back on while vrc is running
Oculus home does not do that
faint skiff
Ah, that's a bug. You can fix it (if it happens, it only happens rarely) by changing the supersampling value. No idea what the exact trigger is.
ionic ridge
What was that thing we could do where we divert VRChat's cache to whatever folder we want by putting something in the LocalLow folder?
sonic kayak
Is it possible to use only one hip tracker?
I tried doing so and it sorta works but for whatever reason I can't move with my joystick
vocal shard
Yeah you can use just one hip tracker.
sonic kayak
hmm I guess the world I was in was bugged then
polar jasper
@ionic ridge symlink
faint skiff
Well, symlinks on Linux, they're called Junctions on Windows aren't they?
sonic kayak
yup it was that, thanks @vocal shard
ionic ridge
Oooh noice, Imma look that up thanks 😄
torn nebula
@faint skiff windows also has symlinks as well. Not sure how much they differ on NTFS
ivory axle
anyone wanna buy me fbt
vocal shard
O.O
I wanna buy me fbt tho
faint skiff
Ok, so the V2 base stations are slightly quieter than the V1s, so that's a benefit. Will be curious to see if they feel any different but I'm not expecting any real changes.
slow halo
Quieter? The v1s are loud?
vocal shard
Less moving parts, and wider coverage
slow halo
I'm only just learning they make a sound at all
faint skiff
The v1s make a quiet whine, the v2s make a quieter whine
vocal shard
The ir emitter spins
faint skiff
They basically use 2 and 1 HD motors in them respectively
vocal shard
So like a small electric motor
slow halo
That makes sense
analog quest
Hello! I want watch a movie from youtube i buy it, but when i copy the link in the box of my map or other maps, i cant see the movie what i have pay for it.
How i can fix it? I pay 5€ for looking a movie but cant see it on VRChat the Rooms.
Thanks! 🙂
meager solstice
i mean.... it could be because it is payed for
vocal shard
I don't think that would work. I think the link needs to be opened by something logged into your YouTube account. VRChat can't log into your YouTube account.
(Never bought a movie on YouTube, so I don't know how it works)
slate verge
@analog quest can't post movie links it depends on the author of the world making it work
faint skiff
Yeah, the YouTube-DL software won't be able to authenticate so it won't work.
opal lichen
wtf
i was in the box and lost myscreen
only audio and cross made of arrows in the mid of the screen lmao
faint skiff
Probably someone with a malicious screen-shader
marble pier
Hm
vocal shard
This game is really not working well
I start the game, need 2 tries
then the worlds arent loading sometimes, friend requests dont work, you keep crashing etc
It's really a pain to play this game right now cause the performance just feels garbage
does anyone have fixes for this?
I dont know if a reinstall would fix it
I cleared cache already, did the steam repair thing etc
covert blade
Clear cache, use safety settings, use performance settings
faint skiff
What spec is your PC? RAM, CPU, etc?
covert blade
Disable dynamic bones
vocal shard
PC, 16GB, i5 7500, 1060 6GB
sacred sleet
Didn't Tupper just post in #announcements about server maintenance
covert blade
The channel isn't lit up for me
If you mean with "Just", 11 days ago, then yeah he "just" posted it
molten gale
That was 11 days ago
covert blade
Clear cache, use safety settings, use performance settings, disable dynamic bones
sacred sleet
Anyone else on windowsMR? My fps takes a huge dive every time I go back to windowsMR home and reload steamvr /vrchat
vocal shard
I'm on wmr
languid beacon
I just want a wireless, sensorless, pcvr headset
ruby needle
sensorless? so, basically just a screen on your head? (I know what you mean )
vocal shard
Cosmos with the wireless? If they fix the other issues
vocal shard
Hey guys 👀👀
vocal shard
No
ruby burrow
Cosmos is PCVR tethered or wireless (with sold separately Vive adaptor), and uses integrated cameras for tracking. Has been no word on the hinted phone powered mode.
vocal shard
It was teased that it could connect to a phone, but we never heard anything since. But overall the cosmos has had bad reviews
meager solstice
Yeah.... definitely not the best headset to purchase atm
ruby burrow
Though as far as all reviews I've seen so far go, it's also borderline non-functional in terms of tracking quality right now. >_>;
vocal shard
Yeah
meager solstice
Honestly one of the best headsets to buy right now would be quest.... once that pc link thing comes out for it
ruby burrow
Possibly, but I'd be pretty cautious about that.
meager solstice
If they had that at the start..... it would have been really good
ruby burrow
The PC link still isn't technically the same as a normal tether.
meager solstice
true
vocal shard
How do I make homemade full body tracking
I want to go to void club
I'm waiting until November, and then deciding if I'm getting a quest or Rift S. I know the rift S is still a better experience, but the portability is really nice
Someone who used it with the link was saying, it's better than the CV1, but the Rift S is still a bit better
ruby burrow
It doesn't seem like it will be able to transmit power for one thing (The official cable is fibre optic). And the data rate isn't the same either, forcing the same "fixed foveated rendering" onto games even in PCVR mode. You'll also still be stuck at 72hz.
vocal shard
Yeah, although they say it will be able to charge. But the fixed foveated rendering and compression was all explained in connect 6
ruby burrow
So don't expect to be using it for they typical long VR-Chat sessions many are used to. Will be two hours on, two hours off. Repeat.
Oh?
vocal shard
They said at connect 6 that it will charge at the same time
ruby burrow
Oh you mean with the separate normal power cable right?
vocal shard
No... During the demos of the link. It's just one cable plugged into the computer. They said it streames and keeps it charged
umbral reef
Lmao big X to doubt that
ruby burrow
That's weird. Because I was fairly certain the official cable they're selling is fibre optic.
Which is an obvious impossibility to carry electricity.
umbral reef
There are plenty of cases from a hotter then average rooms where the headset thermal limits its charging while playing (where its slower charging then its being drained). Highly doubt any pc usb port can properly supply the power
ruby burrow
I mean, a normal copper cable presumably could. But that makes their official merchandise a curious choice.
vocal shard
Does it have to only be fiber optic though? Can't they run a power cable through it as well. They're manufacturing it themselves
ruby burrow
Perhaps a hybrid cable? I guess those can be a thing. ._.
ruby burrow
Fair enough then. Perhaps I'm wrong about power.
umbral reef
Highlt doubt the quest can run of a ~5 wats 😂
So id will have to be jacked in somewhere that aint the pc
ruby burrow
In any case, I'd always recommend that people wait for reviews and actual release before making decisions.
ruby burrow
I've seen waaay too many youtube comments lately of people being unhappy with their purchases, or making hasty returns/re-sales in order to change their minds.
vocal shard
The Rift S is still better overall for PCVR. The question is just how much
umbral reef
Wait anyone here has a quest? If so they can check how much the quest charges with
Id love to know the V|A amounts
ruby burrow
It'd be nice to have a portable such as WMR/Rift-S or Quest to take and show some relatives, but I'd get no other real use case out of it, just personally.
Maybe 12 to 24 hours a year use tops.
vocal shard
5 volts, 2.4 amps
ruby burrow
My lifestyle just has no need or place for portability. Any time I'm ever outside of even this room, my time use is 99% pre-planed.
ruby needle
2.4A is quite some juice 
umbral reef
And usb only gives 1A at max (with 5v)
ruby burrow
Well, would that still technically count as "charging"?
ruby needle
there is fast and slow charging
ruby burrow
Not necessarily gaining charge, but "charging" all the same?
vocal shard
USB 3.1 has a top speed of 10Gbps and can deliver a power output of up to 20 volts (100 watts) and 5 amps
ruby needle
you'd have to measure charging and fully charged (while playing) for that
5A over usb cables
ruby burrow
That'd do it then.
umbral reef
ow yea 3.1 is a thing
Still it has to be a modern 3.1 then. all 3.0 versions have what i listed earlier unless its some janky mix
wonder if they will use two usb cables then. One for powering and one for data
That could work a in a way
ruby needle
Y cables for power sharing is kinda common
tho, 5A over the typical diameter of a USB cable are concerning me
umbral reef
pretty sure it has to have some 'safety' stuff to be allowed to draw that
ruby needle
i hope they at least measure cable resistance to figure out the diameter
stil even the contacts are... not great cus 5A is quite some juice
ruby burrow
I can't help but always treat any claims from Oculus with a grain of salt, after boasting things like "The Quest will run Rift quality experiences".
Which is such a sly and half true claim.
mossy coral
@surreal ingot hey
umbral reef
god usb protocols are stupid at times
ruby burrow
Like, Superhot on Quest? Sure, Rift quality, and infact superior spare for frame rates.
But half of anything else, no. Never happened.
Lied to peoples faces, people bought the hype, told me to "just wait and see", and I have never seen anyone call them out on it since.
Still a great device for what it is. But I don't trust the marketing.
umbral reef
I still wheeze at there locked store and them slowly pushing out the sideloading
But tis fine as its a wireless headset
ruby burrow
Yeah, same. Having software purchases held for ransom unless you stay on their platform forever more, is not something I'd want to be part of if I could avoid it, even if they had the objectively best headsets.