alright, thank you
#vrchat-general-2
limber thunder
covert chasm
When you get far away from someone, the high-frequency part of the voice falls out (low-pass filter)
limber thunder
alright, cause it seemed a little more quite once i got away from someone
rigid crescent
So VRC can simulate real life in my eyes and my ears now?
tranquil cobalt
š
covert chasm
and the tech for that in vr is bleeding edge, to be fair on both sides
rigid crescent
Bleeding Edge always sounds so cool
tranquil cobalt
lmao, I get a ping anytime you mention anything with audio propagation
covert chasm
bleeding edge sounds cool until you realize they update and change things fundamentally as often as we do š
rigid crescent
Don't ruin this for me, I need to keep believing that bleeding edge tech is stuff we magically create 500 years early
covert chasm
a decent price to pay for being able to play with the latest greatest stuff
snow wadi
I has rift s am I part of the Kool kids club Tupper?
Wtf my phone capitlized that name on its own....
limber thunder
tbh, not really, i lose tracking a lot and i just got rift s like 2 weeks ago
snow wadi
Weird I never lost tracking so far.
limber thunder
how long have you had it?
snow wadi
I had it for almost a month now
snow wadi
IS your room well lit?
limber thunder
i usually play in my family dining room and it's pretty light in there
maybe too much lighting may be the problem? idk
snow wadi
Nah no such thing as too much, too little however yes.
vocal shard
The beta track is also good if you aren't on it already. Some have said the beta tracking was better than 3 sensor CV1
limber thunder
hmm, i may have to give that i try then
snow wadi
So far my tracking is good but yes as Jamie said it could also be because of the PTC build.
I'm using PTC to end the annoying static flashes and robotic mic issues.
umbral reef
You would have to email support@vrchat.com about that
vocal shard
ok thanks
upbeat patio
umbral reef
You mean with rokk?
dusk mesa
umbral reef
Loads of people got kicked for posting the creeper meme/spam
errant lark
I meant what cobra was talking about
vocal shard
If you're referring to within an hour ago, it wasn't anything to do with talking about the game or it's flaws, it was name calling and excessive cursing that lead to mod action. And the action taken was either just a kick or temp ban depending on the individual and what they said
errant lark
Right
slate verge
social listing is a bit slow on updating
oblique aurora
Well if there are people trying to help the game on pointing out where there are flaws and they are getting kicked for it. I don't know if this is the community I want to be part off. Because that's how I see and heard it
dusk mesa
Yeah
umbral reef
Let me ask agian, this is about rokk?
oblique aurora
So far I've heard no names sorry. I just walked into this mess that's called updates. What do we get. Summer emojisš š š woooow we where waiting on that for so longš
umbral reef
So the first thing you said is about something you dont evne know is true, who its about and if its not even a rumor to cause this mess?
Also, pretty sure the update did a bit more then add emotes lmao
rigid crescent
no one is kicked for pointing out flaws
you know by now peopel cant read patch notes
announcements channel? consistently updated website, steam page, and what I assume oculus store page that says whne theres patch notes and downloads them? that's too hard ;-;
dusk mesa
I heard Rokk got banned bc he pointed out that generic rig is still broken, idk. I wasnt here, just what i heard.
umbral reef
Let me tell you a secret as i was sort of buddies with rokk for ages in the BattleMaid server
The guy is far from a saint lmao
rigid crescent
i doubt all he did was point it out
people complain about flaws all the time
every single day
umbral reef
^^
And he has stated before that he would leak bad exploits instead of reporting it 'as thats actually solves stuff'
Gotta say during my time there he did not do what i wrote above. But he is not a saint.
oblique aurora
Don't worry I read the patch notes. Though I didn't see anything big. Audio is now wierd and warped for me so I know what has changed.
oblique aurora
And true I only heard things I don't stay upto date here. The chats go to fast for me to read and to even care to read
tranquil cobalt
I've heard that a few times, but haven't gone in with headphones to test yet. What is warped / weird about it?
errant lark
I'm not sure if they meant it for complaints
oblique aurora
It's wierd and have no idea how to explain or discribe it except warped sound
umbral reef
Well we now have to look at people to properly talk to them
So thats a change š
Almost like how speaking should be.
oblique aurora
I'm going to try and reset everything see if that worka
rigid crescent
its a pretty reasonably sized cone
errant lark
don't we have a test version of vrchat to find these issues in the first place?
before its publicly launched
oblique aurora
š¤·
umbral reef
And a shit ton got tested on there.
#open-beta-discussion
umbral reef
You realize that upgrading unity versions is an insane amount of work for the return? Even if its LTS to LTS?
errant lark
I know thats why said it slipped me I hadn't seen that channel been involved that much since that time
tranquil cobalt
It should be a bit easier going from 2017 to 2018, but probably not high priority for them rn.
umbral reef
Not really. There is still a lot they have to redo and if they want to make proper use of 2018 they have to change some bigger things.
Or well, its leaps easier then what they had before from the non LTS to LTS version but still
tranquil cobalt
I'm ignorant to what they have to do on their end to make the switch tbh, but I just look forward to the day when everybody can use GPU light baking
rigid crescent
doesnt bakery do that
light pilot
Yes but bakery costs $$$$
umbral reef
Like this community doesnt share and torrent like crazy already
Dynamic bones also costs money and doesnt make it so people wont use it illegally
floral glen
cookie and milk
tranquil cobalt
Bakery costs money, but also only supports Nvidia because it relies on OptiX and CUDA
Unity's GPU lightmapper will be free for everyone here, and will support peeps who have AMD cards
umbral reef
Well it being carded locked is a really valid reason to want it
tranquil cobalt
I feel like the drop-out rate of people giving up on their worlds tends to happen around the light baking stage when they have to bake for the 8th time to fix something. That shit takes forever for em, it's a shame
ashen harbor
BRO
oops caps
bro the game is crashing like crazy now wtf
bruh
I got timed out now wtf
inland summit
like
no offense or anything cause i'm a sw dev myself and i just wanna say how funny it is
feels like every single release of vrchat has some launch bug lol
umbral reef
Its tradition yea
inland summit
damn shame to the devs, gotta work overtime
umbral reef
But they stated that unless a bug is bad they dont enjoy pushing off updates for weeks.
They rather do a big update, few smaller ones that solve problems/patches things/updates things and repeat
inland summit
yeah
i mean QA is kind of a pita and im not sure how big their team is
so a large release QA might not be sustainable etc
i really really hate slowmode
umbral reef
Everyone dislikes it but it wont get removed š¤·
Also im unsure how big there team is but its not really small.
They also do a fair bit of beta testing but as almost no one cares about doing beta testing its hard to find most bugs.
Still does not make it ok how some things break as that should just flat out not happen. But some bugs are reasonable
spark drum
It has been 2 years
rigid crescent
Since 
tawny ore
I guess I must be the only human who enjoyed the game more after last update... It felt smoother. Loaded faster; sounded better.
rigid crescent
š¤ nothing should be running smoother/faster if it was just the audio stuff
that part might be a placebo honestly, but im getting used to the audio spatialization pretty quick after being in a room with a shitload of people for an hour
vocal shard
this patch seems to handle a lot of people in a room better for me, and I don't mean audio but general jitter and stutter seems less, maybe I had a lucky session idk
tawny ore
@rigid crescent the preview of your selected avatar loads quicker, the mirror-flying thing in room of rain doesn't work anymore
rigid crescent
mirror flying?
tawny ore
So there's a lot of under the hood fixes...
Yeah you used to be able to pick up the mirror off the wall, put it under yourself and launch up into the sky
errant lark
Could be just your internet speed
rigid crescent
š¤ nothing in the patch notes suggests it would change the mirror thing
so there's a chance the world is what updated
tawny ore
My internet has not changed o.0 hardware has not changed either.
Mic it's like I said - a lot of under the hood changes; most of which probably don't get mentioned.
rigid crescent
Uh, things about colliders usually get mentioned
tawny ore
I could also not get my butt up onto the roof through normal jumping means... but that might be my own incompetence.
rigid crescent
It makes perfect sense that Hub just changed the map to remove that collider. Most of the changes that are "under the hood" are still documented in some way or another, whether its "hey we messed with this..."
or detailed info about it
tawny ore
There is a collision; just not while you carry the object
solemn relic
now we just need to ask the devs of vrchat for more favorite slots
vocal shard
I think I remember them mentioning they removed the collider from the prefab
covert blade
@solemn relic just save the avatar worlds
solemn relic
The problem is its a guy who doesn't have a avatar world
Just a guy who like to share his avatars he makes
vivid oar
getting to trusted user feels kinda pointless when you don't get more favorites for it IMO
when they gave me 16 for going from new user to normal user I thought it was going to be a thing that keeps upgrading as you progress
shut osprey
my pimax 4k is very blurry can anyone help me? š¤
seems stuck at 30hz with rtx2060
warped swift
whelp rip the diamond y-bot avatar (cuz of the new update)
fossil root
do you have any custom resolutions set in the NVIDIA control panel?
is SteamVR's auto supersampling scaling enabled? is it lower than 100%?
why aren't you in the VR discord? they have a pimax channel for help
shut osprey
No, and Nvidia does not detect my headset just my monitor.
Super sample? ill check
I just now started looking into other discords
shut osprey
ive seen it listed here before but never again
nevermind i was going 2 post a screenshot
Nvidia has given me the option 2 select it before and change resolutions and hz but i never did, just noticed that it maxed out at 30hz which it should max at 60
tacit plank
Is it only vive which is 90Hz?
steady kayak
The IK lag has become such a common problem now.
I remember 1 year ago this problem never happened.. what happened? Did the way IK data is send back become super inefficient because of quest support??
tawny ore
Uhh.... are you talking about your experience just now or like a few days ago?
steady kayak
Now..days ago too.. it seems to happen every single day now on a corporate 500mb/s connection
tawny ore
Last night there was an update
so you might want to make sure you're up to date with VRC
steady kayak
i did update but nothing has changed sadly.. the problem is still very much alive
tawny ore
shrugs I've no idea. Not that I'd know; and I guess its better that I do not.
But it was better after update than before, I can confirm that.
steady kayak
i think its client based .. i think as a temporary fix till a solution has been found a re-initialize button for IK would be nice in settings! ill probably ask in canny
vestal latch
I dislike the new audio changes. its harder to hear people and I feel its hurt music a bit
rough pulsar
Overall the audio has been tweaked to better reflect how sounds behave in reality. It may take a little time to adjust to hearing things properly.
Of course there may be bugs too.
still lark
It's a mix between reality and how VRC works.
rough pulsar
It also makes talking in large groups easier since those in front of you, facing you have volume priority. compared to previously where there was no directionality, or not any significant amount.
tawny ore
That's actually really nice.
The problem can become when someone's calling out to you from behind
I wonder if their volume increases if they're looking at you from behind you
rough pulsar
I think the two direction-based volume things are unconnected, so behind you & facing is louder than behind and facing away.
Not 100% sure exactly, but it overall feels loads better than it used to be.
tawny ore
That's good.
I wasn't able to test the IK changes last night as there weren't enough people with the update applied yet
but the video players got some intense misuse straight away
rough pulsar
Also try whispering to people. Get right up at them and whisper so your mic just activates. They'll hear you but even people kinda near will struggle to make out what's being said.
tawny ore
yep. this update is 10/10; ā¤ everyone who worked on it.
It was a solid 6/10 before I received this information but now with the discovery of whispering... would bang.
inner cape
pog
sharp saddle
It's free real estate.
indigo fern
i think the audio is definitely more realistic, but at the same time you can hear multiple groups of people across the map talking at the same time and it gets a little confusing
especially since certain peoples mics are naturally louder or quieter which really throw it off
faint skiff
Avatars are loading a lot faster too.
At least for me. There was an update for the pug it seems too but that didn't fix the fog issue.
tawny ore
^ Enverex I noticed that too; but people keep telling me that I'm on cracks and weeds and I should stop drinking window cleaner...
faint skiff
lol. I'm on a crap internet connection so normally they all take ages so it was very apparent that they're all loading a lot faster. Oddly enough a bunch of people were complaining that they are now not loading at all or are taking forever, so...
indigo fern
i dont think theyre loading faster, but not staying at 100% as long
not sure tho, it still takes a while to load everyone in an instance if all new
uncut crag
wmr users, how did you remedy the blurry peripheral vision? my ipd has been adjusted properly with the software but it still is very off.
faint skiff
Is that not just due to inferior optics in the headset itself?
uncut crag
I would hope not, but Idk how much cheap Fresnel lenses can do
rough pulsar
From my experience most WMR have pretty basic lenses compared to higher end HMDs like the Index, Vive or Rift.
Best you can do is try adjusting the vertical positioning of the HMD and get it as best you can.
rough pulsar
I mean, the Index is only what, $460 or so? And has insanely good lenses.
uncut crag
the wmr's $300 comes with the controllers though
index as a package is like a fucking grand lmao
rough pulsar
True, but the HMD itself is surprisingly cheap.
faint skiff
Ā£459, yeah
I like the controllers more than I was expecting. I find gunplay in things like Pavlov a lot easier than the Vive wands, I think due to distribution of weight so it's easier to fling your hands around. I can now also cock weapons without smashing the controllers together, lol.
tawny ore
Honestly; I am actually surprised by the Rift Touch controllers... They are genuinely fantastic. If the hand gestures are set up correctly on an avatar - my fingers in reality correspond to what the avatar is doing
rough pulsar
The thing I don't like about the touch controller is the natural rest pose while holding them has your hands too closed and curled up around them.
And on a personal level causes problems with my left hand due to some weird shit with one of my finger tendons, but that's 90% me.
uncut crag
i like the wmr controllers
what I don't like?
controller analog stick drift. unfortunately, steamvr has both on mine.
and the deadzone is non-adjustable. and i have tried every possible method
rough pulsar
Might still be in the beta but SteamVR is getting deadzone adjustment for thumbsticks. At least on the Index controllers, might be for others too.
coarse scaffold
@uncut crag you should be able to increase the deadzone
coarse scaffold
you can also increase the deadzone in the wmr default.vrsettings file
jade fossil
Ń
uncut crag
it's only really a problem in vivecraft. i use the triggers to move atm
cloud lagoon
anyone else having trouble getting into vrchat? I'm getting into a infite loading screen and I'm getting crash reports after evertime
inner cape
dojyaan~
it's rare for a lot of people to have same issues usually so my guess it's a problem on your side
tawny ore
@cloud lagoon if you use steam - check integrity of the game; or some means of checking files
May have got yourself a janky download/update
cloud lagoon
I just fixed it ty for your help
languid beacon
Touch controllers beat out GameCube controllers as āmost comfortable controllerā for me
Rift classicās anyway. Rift Sās/Questās are a slight step backwards but still very good. Or I just am not used to them
vocal shard
I agree, the balance of the CV1 touch is a bit more natural. S/Quest controllers are still excellent, but it's different for sure
languid beacon
Cv1 has billions in R&D and it shows in build quality. they should have just kept the design for quest and inverted the ring š¤
vocal shard
poop scoop
languid beacon
Cursed comments
vocal shard
whet re fook isd ramed
wise perch
faint skiff
Come again?
languid beacon
Thatās how I talk in dreams
wise perch
*what the fuck is ....?
faint skiff
I can't tell if it's gibberish, or Scottish.
languid beacon
And we will never know
onyx cape
Hey guys idk if the dev team knows but all avatars audio is kinda screwed and it messed with somethings in my maps that I created. I donāt know why but every update just breaks something
languid beacon
The audio system had been entirely redone as of yesterdayās update.
It should be more reliable now but you will need to fix things set up already
rotund wren
Theres a new audio system in place. They did ask people to test their maps in beta to make sure things were still working.
languid beacon
Quiet objects no longer get dangerously loud at close range which is a blessing
onyx cape
Yeah no cause my friend made weapons and now they donāt work for our RP that we do. And he has to redo all of them cause one gun shoots the other and the audio is so low you canāt even hear it
And the clipping to the spawn he made for the guns to respawn doesnāt work
rigid crescent
i think overly loud audio gets nerfed too
faint skiff
Audio now originates on the avatar, rather than "everywhere" which is nice for most of us, but may require a rework for some avatar authors.
languid beacon
Yeah if sounds were way too loud (especially if they were stacked to make them louder) itās gonna break now and get all quiet
rigid crescent
its probably a sign it was too loud
mapmakers i think can override it, if youreon an rp with custom map
languid beacon
The idea is people shouldnāt be able to sound spam anymore
Unless the world wants to allow it
snow wadi
Just tested one of my worlds and so far the audio is fantastic.
Thank goodness, that means I don't have to bang my head in unity.
languid beacon
Yeah voice chat sounded excellent last night I could tell that immediately. And some avatars that had some volume spike sweet spots seem to have been leveled out now
slate verge
idk if you guys notice but the fade screen when loading in worlds kinda goes in quick
languid beacon
I had reports of loading being quicker but didnāt notice anything myself
faint skiff
Maybe it's just more apparent to people with bad connections?
slate verge
are you saying i have bad connetions? >.>
faint skiff
I mean the avatar loading bit
tawny ore
That's the interesting part y'see... because I run VRC off an NVMe SSD (3000mb/s read speed); and I would hope that VRC now uses the cache for avatar storage, rather than re-downloading it every 20 seconds. This would also explain why I found the loading speeds drastically improved.
tawny ore
I hear if you download more RAM, it improves your connection speed
snow wadi
tawny ore
I am also nearly never serious.
snow wadi
wait a minute...
I loaded another world and it dropped back to the usual 290...
Hold up
tawny ore
Oh it might be a wonky AWS server then
snow wadi
No my world is on a wonky AWS server ;_;
Eh...it's back to 290 now
Tupper what are you doing up there with the servers? >_>
onyx cape
I also kinda hate the loading in sound and the clicking sounds it makes, it was better when it wasnāt there
Specially when you look in the avatars it makes the weird sound in the menu
languid beacon
This is weird, the clicking sound is what I dont hear anymore. It went away with this update
Yet some people are reporting this new clicking sound
languid beacon
Itās what I always heard ever since I joined and now itās finally gone
snow wadi
It could be their audio setup?
onyx cape
The audio set up is kinda shit not gonna lie
languid beacon
I think the audio is more intuitive now
snow wadi
Also holy macaroni that god awful clicking beeping noise with the world/avatar menu is gone for me! \ovo/
languid beacon
Too many sliders before
onyx cape
Why isnāt it gone for me, reeeeeee
The devs should make the quest see oculus and vive avatars and have them go to normal worlds
onyx cape
If the mixed reality can, quest can
vocal shard
It's up to the avatar creator. The quest can't see PC avatars and worlds because they're uploaded to a different build. The quest can't understand the code the PC avatars are written in. One is a computer and one is Android. That's why it's recommended to upload your avatar to both builds under the same ID. So they can cross communicate
snow wadi
^
vestal pier
Just because it's inside out tracking like the quest doesn't mean it's inherently the same hardware
Quest runs on android, pc vr runs on windows
snow wadi
Quest uses built in hardware to run, WMR uses your whole god damn PC.
languid beacon
I bought a quest and used it for 2 days and then returned it. VRChat is really sad on it. š¦
vestal pier
Android is a fantastic os...
snow wadi
I really wanted to like the quest but it's way too limited.
onyx cape
Their too easily hacked. Plus virusās and other shit
vestal pier
Or are we one if those "look at these mfs taking a picture on their android" with a picture of Minecraft
vestal pier
Everything can be hacked
onyx cape
Iām just stating Android isnāt worth it
vestal pier
Android being hackable is a good thing
snow wadi
Like any other computer, if you're a dummy, a virus will pop in.
vestal pier
What you are stating is objectively incorrect, educate ones self
languid beacon
Yeah sideloading is like the best thing about the quest. I actually loved it for every game that wasnāt VRChat
snow wadi
I can easily botch Mac OS X in a heartbeat
Seriously that OS is a flimsy one.
I managed to lock up a 2018 mac pro
languid beacon
The 2.5 hour battery on a full charge is what made me return it, and bad microphone quality. Everyone said I sounded terrible
snow wadi
Hell I'm using the built in mic in the rift S and no one complained so far. They said I sounded good.
languid beacon
Dunno if Quest is the same. I was streaming pc version with VD if that makes a difference
faint skiff
That electric buzz still seems to be an issue on Quest. I wonder what causes it.
tawny ore
Rift S since the firmware update has been a dream
tawny ore
@faint skiff The electric buzz will be gone with next proper firmware update for the Quest.
languid beacon
I think I had my quest post update not sure. Either way, bad first impression, needed money back
The optics on the quest is amazing though
Whoever complains about fixed foviated renderings needs to be ignored
tawny ore
Does the Quest have a downwards camera too?
I was quite surprised to see they didn't put a camera there on the S
languid beacon
Nah the quest has four diagonal cameras. Pass though covers full vision though
Arms down at sides was seen perfectly accurate in vrc
snow wadi
Rift s has one more camera compared to the quest but I heard tracking does a good job.
tawny ore
It really does
languid beacon
Quest has better tracking than my cv1 setup with 3 sensors
snow wadi
Yea people were saying the sensors compared to the cameras on the new headsets were a joke.
The modeler who my my busty bird is still using the CV1.
vestal pier
Well the rift never had great tracking people shouldn't be that surprised
snow wadi
And he was asking how I was doing with the Rift S.
I gave him a thumbs up and I saw him opening amazon on our screenshare call on discord lol
I passed down my lenovo explorer to a good friend who never had VR, I never heard from him again. :<
Well I did actually last night, he was on the damn headset for hours everyday.
alpine flame
i'm so done with vrchat, i've been trying to join any world and it is not loading
god i'm so disappointed
tawny ore
Did you update your VRChat?
vocal shard
im just wondering that if u guys start an update and u take this long to get to that point wy is it only audio fixes bring somthing more to the update if ure gona take months to update the game
tawny ore
You might be getting instanced into the old client version worlds
languid beacon
I mean with 3 sensors on cv1 I never lose tracking. Not even for a second after a year of use. So much redundancy, nothing escapes my view. But quest / rift Sās tracking is just more responsive. It feels like it detects smaller subtle movements
rigid crescent
"Nothing escapes my view"
viscid seal
I had to read your message a few times to understand what you were saying NUGGZ XD But the audio changes are important in the long run, what were you hoping in an update?
languid beacon
The all seeing eye of Oculus
vocal shard
thats doesnt matter if ure gona take months to do that update then y do it at all
rigid crescent
smolbrain logic
desert stratus
because 1 > its important and 2 > these things take time
rigid crescent
this will go south quickly
viscid seal
XD
desert stratus
audio is a fucking nightmare to mess with my twwo cents but im glad that this took like three weeks
languid beacon
These things, they take time
viscid seal
NUGGZ, you're assuming they only work on one thing at any time
vocal shard
audio takes time lol plz
desert stratus
but ye imma hop out of here before this goes south š
vocal shard
@languid beacon I remember when it was new someone did a test and I think they confirmed that the sub mm tracking quality was better with insite than the old tracking while in the camera range
rigid crescent
typically people with not-smart arguments like that cant participate in or handle "real" discussion
viscid seal
XD
vocal shard
u telling me that?
viscid seal
beat seat devs / coach devs
rigid crescent
yes, not as an insult more of a warning before people try and engage
viscid seal
real devs need to git gud
vocal shard
wow... i do feel insulted and attacked
umbral reef
@vocal shard It took a month, its not a small change. The dev team isnt on the scale of AAA teams and what you mean only audio?
viscid seal
the audio changes will allow for a lot of cool things for worlds btw
vocal shard
u need better dev team
umbral reef
Find them then š
vestal sleet
Why don't u be a dev
vocal shard
ones that dont take months to do an update and bring more to them
rigid crescent
sorry, but "if you take this long to update why update at all" isnt very sound logic
viscid seal
umbral reef
It legit took one month.
So stop saying its months
viscid seal
thats everything that came in the update
tawny ore
Question (random) - is it possibly to staple together a Rift S and a FBT tracking setup?
tawny ore
Okay; I guess I know where I'm spending money next month
vocal shard
still if it took a month y is it only audio
rigid crescent
this was a fairly big update
umbral reef
Also ALL audio related topics within the game got remade. Just like most previous updates added a full new system this one reworked an really large and important system.
rigid crescent
"only audio"
vestal sleet
Someone here doesn't know about engineering
vocal shard
no it wansnt it took 2sec to dowmload
rigid crescent
see? you say ignorant things like that
umbral reef
Maybe they reduced the file size or steam preloaded the update for you as oftenhappens lmao
vocal shard
ure talking that it was a big update wen it took 2sec to download lol
rigid crescent
bigger mb=more content
neon flume
š¤¦
umbral reef
So an update it all client side and not server side?
viscid seal
XD
vestal sleet
Ya someone here doesn't have an engineer degree
viscid seal
I don't think Nuggz is serious now , just trolling for reaction I think XD
rigid crescent
im out, watching harry potter
umbral reef
Mic, legit the people i work with understand tech better and i gotta explain them how to turn on and off products lmao
@vestal sleet Il actually have one within a year 
vestal sleet
Pog
rigid crescent
selfie time boi https://puu.sh/E00LG/1226647912.png
umbral reef
Just gotta sit my time out as my exams are pretty much passed already
neon flume
cuteeee
umbral reef
Back to work time for me š
Can only chat on discord for so long while getting payed
vestal sleet
Same
umbral reef
Btw lakuza when is your bullet time world being released š
languid beacon
Inbound call job = discord all day
vocal shard
aha
rigid crescent
LOL
vocal shard
cuz ure so smart with ure little engineering degree
ohhhh
look out guys he has an enginerring degree
rigid crescent
<@&397642795457970181>
languid beacon
Who is he talking to Iām confused
rigid crescent
dont even bother
snow wadi
What is even happening here? o.o;
umbral reef
@vestal sleet if the guy insullted/broke rules in dms just send it to a chatmod btw
rigid crescent
just ignore it, it'll leave
viscid seal
@umbral reef bullet time is later this year, no release window yet just 2019
everything in that trailer is already playable ingame though
umbral reef
Dont make me yell at you to speed it up man---
Ow wait where?
viscid seal
the portal is placed in the ending of lounge
astral lance
But guys, "it is just sound" š
umbral reef
Ait ait, dope
viscid seal
its been available in game for 2 months š
vestal sleet
I mean idc
snow wadi
Bullet Time world? What's that?
vestal sleet
@umbral reef I should but I just don't care enough to
viscid seal
@snow wadi this is bullet time world:
https://twitter.com/LakuzaVR/status/1155149776788307968?s=20
snow wadi
I get to be max payne? @_@
viscid seal
^_^
max payne mixed with some mission impossible mixed in with some ratchet and clank
snow wadi
Oh thank goodnes xD
viscid seal
but I actually prefer normal speed on players now
makes certain puzzles where you have to use slow mo less tedious
keeps the progress flowing nicely
so you're never in an area for too long
umbral reef
Should start a riot to get special worlds like this whitelisted for some scripts
Wait, we should not as that would just push more bias from the team and wont look good for users lmao
snow wadi
Wait a sec LaKuza lounge is yours?
viscid seal
it is yeah
snow wadi
I ish fan
rigid crescent
lol of course ut is
umbral reef
Oi shift stop posting emotes and start talking
viscid seal
japan town, luxerion world,Climbing trials: colossus, Snakes and ladders (metalg gear 3 ladder), lakuza lounge, bullet time teaser are worlds I have ingame (also worked on what a legend world too in a group)
snow wadi
I love cyberpunk worlds, I made some myself ovo
vestal sleet
Woah there is a bullet time world ?
rigid crescent
"are youTHE Lakuza?"
vestal sleet
Woah lakuza that so coolllllll
snow wadi
I'm following yo ass on twitter >_>;
faint skiff
I'm not sure if I'm supposed to know who these people are, of it people are just being sarcastic at this point..
umbral reef
Tbh, lakuza is the only world creator i know from name for the stuff they make
vestal sleet
I don't pay attention to world creator š
viscid seal
its not really your fault
only recently have world creators started to reach out more
on twitter
and on streams
one of the things I've been wanting to encourage more is posting updates on twitter and reaching out to streamers who enjoy world hopping
I was very lucky with luxerion world with all the tours I did, so I want that same thing to extend to other world creators too
snow wadi
I only make worlds that are meant for exploring and walking around, non interactive.
opaque hawk
We are trying a little harder. Iām tweeting but I donāt use twitch like I should
viscid seal
thats fine Qhala
snow wadi
It's about immersion with mine.
viscid seal
VRC is general needs serious variety
so not everything has to be some crazy interactive thing
thats just something I want to focus on as a world creator
opaque hawk
No worries, the good part is you are making something you like
viscid seal
ā
snow wadi
\o/
vestal sleet
I only look at avatar creator because I want commission
viscid seal
tbh, looking at the stats, adventure worlds/ interactive ones are generally not popular
most of the community want a simple world to relax in to just talk
which is fine
vestal sleet
Hangout world is popular
Although I never understood how do people play with 30 people.in room of rain
astral lance
Just type "chill" in the World search :^)
viscid seal
I make the worlds I do because I usually need something to do when talking most of the time
I prefer to multitask when talking XD
vestal sleet
I think there is only 2 thing I do in vrchat
Chill or dance
Only go to interactive world if I wanna to show my friend something or we don't wanna do either of above
viscid seal
the lounge is meant to be my hangout world, but stats wise it hasn't done great as a hangout world, but its got good stats for an adventure world
opaque hawk
There is a world that Mimi is working on or maybe finished that is perfect for playing catch
astral lance
I either draw, run around aimlessly or swing my hips from left to eight when talking, thats kinda weird
viscid seal
my interests do not align with most of the community at all š
faint skiff
I've not tried out any interactive worlds yet because I didn't realise they were really a thing (except the climbing ones which just annoyed me due to how grab interactions work, or, how often they don't)
snow wadi
@viscid seal https://youtu.be/J-8RgFvqvdY this is a recent one I put up.
viscid seal
enverex, climbing requires you to grab the mesh surface
vocal shard
i?
viscid seal
alot of people make the mistake of placing hand orb inside mesh
vestal sleet
Oh climbing world is fun to play with friends
But too bad you can't grab ur friends
viscid seal
oh, @snow wadi I went there during my world hop event
vestal sleet
Like climbey does
viscid seal
about 2 weeks ago
snow wadi
viscid seal
I have screenshots, will send you them when I get home
snow wadi
Oooh \o.o/
rigid crescent
kuri climbed to the moon
viscid seal
@vestal sleet climbing players should be doable, just no one has bothered to do it yet
but the tech is there for it
rigid crescent
i think he was the first
vocal shard
im so bored
umbral reef
Kuri is a madlad
rigid crescent
the stream was crazy, caught the end cause a buddy told me he was near done
viscid seal
the ones ingame are enough xD
vestal sleet
Climbing player could be trolley
faint skiff
Oh, just FYI. I updated the SDK, reuploaded all my avatars (without changing anything) and now they're all slightly taller. No idea why.
viscid seal
pubity was added to sdk
vestal sleet
But if we worry about troll all the time we can never move to the great stuff
umbral reef
Most kuri steams are amazing
He is one of the few streamers i love hearing about as its always good vibes from that dude
Was also the first streamer i followed from vrc
@faint skiff You leveled up so you grew a bit :^)
viscid seal
I haven't had much chance to interact with kuri
inner cape
ahem oclac
viscid seal
met him a few times at lans parties and neko nights
opaque hawk
There are a handful of maps that are interactive maps but failed to gain traction, which made me sad
faint skiff
@viscid seal I know it needs to go on the surface, but that's what feels horribly unnatural about it. That your hand goes through it so you have to... balance your hand in space a bit. I just didn't like how it felt unfortunately.
faint skiff
I got about half way up Tataurus before I just noped out from frustration.
viscid seal
don't think i've been to tataurus
rigid crescent
his orbiters/fans are a bit too hype for me so i havent had much time to hang
umbral reef
Ow that for sure mic
rigid crescent
he surprisinglyrecognized me from my twitter
umbral reef
Its hard to get to him and once you get in his room when he aint rping its even harder to talk to the guy
viscid seal
well, work is finished for the day. time to drive back home. See ya all ^_^/
umbral reef
Time for me to get some food š
rigid crescent
boi o boi do i hate unsolicited friend requests
faint skiff
Well I'm glad you people are meeting nice streamers. I only get the obnoxious ones with crowds of loud people.
"Why are the people over here so fucking loud and making no sense?" "Oh, they're streaming. Of course."
umbral reef
Well most of the time i dont even realize its a streamer unless they start looking at there hands so
faint skiff
@umbral reef I didn't realise two people the other day were streamers, I just didn't know why they were being so weird (and loud). Then someone linked me the Twitch video(s) I was in the day after.
rigid crescent
im sure they were fine, people are loud all the time
faint skiff
People are extra loud when they're trying to be the centre of attention.
rigid crescent
ok
inner cape
ok
umbral reef
Guess im always the center of attention when drunk
rigid crescent
streamer bias is so 2018
deadass just trying to do their thing , people who show off memes are the same way. theyre just trying to entertain and usually arent obtrusive. usually
modern frost
is there an support chat in this discord server?
rigid crescent
ye
neon flume
Ask in #user-support-old or one of the more specific chats like #avatars-2-general if you have a specific issue, maybe someone can help there.
vestal pier
Unless you need emotional support, here isn't the place for that
clear merlin
hi guys
faint skiff
As is tradition
languid beacon
Nametag color shows your sobriety
Blue - not legal drinking age
Green - sober
Orange - buzzed
Purple - drunk
still lark
What about yellow? :P
vocal shard
faint skiff
Already vomiting
rigid crescent
thats cursed adeon
runic willow
After the update, the sound broke. When you come close, it intensifies, and when you move away it decreases. How to make VRC_player Audio Override so that the sound of the voice is the same at a certain distance. For example, 40 meters.
ruby needle
you dont
it's like in reality, if you get close it gets louder
if you're away it's quieter
iron thunder
@faint skiff I record videos every time I'm in VRCHAT and I usually try to tell a story in some ridiculous way. I am actually kind of scared of being obnoxious and loud like that. lmao
desert stratus
i try not to be an obnoxious loudboi unless the situation calls for it. never understood people who walk into a room and start screaming random shit - but if the room is already full of loud af people ill prob join them lol
and thats if the room is actually full of just annoying people and if im not tired
neon flume
If Jesus is talking about disabling falloff for a certain distance maybe the Advanced: Voice Near property would work? Judging by the docs that sets the distance at which audio starts to fall off so maybe it'll be the same volume wherever they are as long as they're within that radius.
(I've never made a world so forgive me if this is completely wrong)
still lark
There's a reason they're under the advanced section
neon flume
Yeah, I hope properties like that are used sparingly š
faint skiff
@iron thunder I mean there are obviously people who do videos that are fine, there's just a really surprising amount of streamers though and often they are... well "everyone pay attention to me" types. I assume to drum up attention for their viewers.
somber zealot
UwU
faint skiff
OwO
patent nest
audio is kind of distorted
languid beacon
Seems to be hit or miss; for me voice chat is suddenly super clear with yesterdayās update
There must be something going on why itās suddenly great for some and terrible for others
desert stratus
might be people getting used to it, or just weird headphone / headset problems
opaque hawk
People just arenāt looking at the new spatialization component
vocal shard
people just aren't people
desert stratus
for the longest time vrc just sounded like a discord vc with the priority speaker bullshit on in my case, dunno how similar that desc is for others but its likely everyone is just getting used to sound being projected as it would be in reality
languid beacon
Iām talking about non-creators. Just people using voice
slate verge
not gonna lie i kinda miss hearing people talking on both sides of my headphones in-game
unless this is a stereo or surround sound thing that i don't know about
faint skiff
That should still happen
tranquil cobalt
What do you mean when you say distorted? I've heard that a few times, but I haven't heard it in the wild. Maybe it's a product of specific source clips being interpolated to Unity's output sample rate?
Pinning down the exact type of distortion would prob help us report it as a bug!
slate verge
@languid beacon only happens when they are directly infront of you or behind you in the middle
i remember i didn't have to do that and still hear them on both sides of the headphone
clear merlin
hello
desert stratus
that was my main beef tho
faint skiff
@slate verge Have you got some weird processing options enabled for your audio device in Windows? People should sound like their voice is coming from where their character is in 3D space.
languid beacon
If someone is to my left they sound like they are to my left dunno what to say
slate verge
@faint skiff yeah thats exactly what is happening right now, sounding from where they are
languid beacon
I can close my eyes and point my face in their direction
desert stratus
felt a bit weird just rotating and hearing someone's voice almost equally projected around me like a bubble
would be useful if you wanted to sound like some sort of spirit though
faint skiff
... that's.. how sound works?
slate verge
what i'm talking about is if they are to my left, i can hear them on both sides
tranquil cobalt
Technically, you'd still hear 'em in both ears. They'd just travel to one ear faster
clear merlin
i think
desert stratus
"i am the ghost of vrc past" and what not
clear merlin
š
languid beacon
You realize thatās how you hear in real life too... Iām not sure whatās going on or if I am misunderstanding
desert stratus
me? im probably wording it in a confusing way but my point is that the newer system sounds a lot closer to reality and i like it better
faint skiff
I think there is a bug though. The new audio was giving me a headache because I think it had an issue where I was only hearing voices in my left OR right ear and it was causing ear fatigue. I'm not sure what triggered it though.
Most of the time it was fine. It's almost like people in a certain position caused it.
tranquil cobalt
I think a lot of the complaints people have with it sounding ~unnatural~ will slowly be dwindled out as they move toward an audio propagation solution. Right now, the room and it's reflections/refractions aren't fully taken into account which is actually an understated part of how sound works IRL
it's a great step forward in that direction imo
desert stratus
that would be cool but wouldnt it also be pretty heavy?
languid beacon
Itās automatic and built into some headsets
tranquil cobalt
There's two schools of thoughts on it, it's bleeding edge as Tupper sort of hinted at recently here
You can bake propagation like light probes, or you can do it real-time
faint skiff
Headsets are completely unaware of the world and map so not sure how that could be built into headsets?
vestal sleet
I think he mean if you go into a tunnel is will echo super hard
Which is going to kill performance to calculate that
desert stratus
that would be like a PC only thing to have real 3d world audio or whatever you call it, and probably "fun" to set up for the world creators
vestal sleet
Oh
tranquil cobalt
The former prevents you from altering the geo in your world and have it affect audio (like a door opening affecting the sound, etc)
faint skiff
But what Kid was referring to is part of Steam Audio which I believe the team are working on implementing into VRChat?
desert stratus
Would be cool to enter like say a warehouse and hear my voice properly echoing off the walls
tranquil cobalt
The Oculus team has a pretty decent real-time audio propagation in beta, that is not too bad
vestal sleet
Tldr instead of ray tracing u have sound tracing
desert stratus
shit dude id be happyif people made fans so i can talk in front of them and have my voice fluctuate
tranquil cobalt
I think Steam Audio is in beta for some form of realtime solution too, or at least a dynamic solution
faint skiff
Proper audio-occlusion would definitely help isolate conversations and such though so that you don't hear people so loudly on other floors or in different rooms.
languid beacon
Yeah oculus has built in audio propagation and itās really freaking good
desert stratus
hot take, but i feel like audio is gonna become more and more prevalent as a "problem" since were focusing on VR optics and panels so much rn that it will soon reach an ideal standard
the actual hot take is do yall think that sound cards will make a return for the general person / VR user for processing "sound tracing" in vr experiences and games and what not?
tranquil cobalt
Oculus has a lot of unique cool HRTF decoders/tech at work, but not necessarily audio propagation. They have a decent Audio SDK for developers that is now featuring propagation though!
desert stratus
im talking out of my ass here but its just speculation
i dont know shit about audio much less the hardware so i cant say much more
faint skiff
No, stuff like audio-processing can now be handled via OpenCL and such if it needs additional processing. I doubt proper sound cards will make a reappearance.
languid beacon
Audio really wonāt ever break my immersion just make sure it comes from the correct left/right pan and weāre golden
desert stratus
interesting
tranquil cobalt
Audio is fundamentally more important to VR than visuals. It might sound like a hot take, but it's quite literally how we sense spatiality
languid beacon
I played with my left speaker at 50% volume for like a week and didnāt notice
tranquil cobalt
Your footsteps in a room help you determine the space of it for instance
desert stratus
im more concerned about the hardware bit, audio is def gonna get worked on by someone at some point, valve has a point with those floating speakers
faint skiff
Agreed. Lack of quality audio completely takes me out of something that should otherwise be immersive.
tranquil cobalt
If you've ever been in a treated studio, it fucks your head up because sound isn't bouncing in the way you expect for the space. Could also be the disorientation people are feeling with the new update + voices
faint skiff
@desert stratus The biggest advantage with those floating speakers (other than keeping my ears cool) is that I can now talk naturally without that weird "I can't hear myself talking properly" issue that comes from hearing your voice in your own head.
desert stratus
never in a treated studio but ive been in enough stages, museums, and other rooms with weird ass acoustics to know how fucking cool it would be to have proper 3d audio
faint skiff
Plus the fact there's nothing on your ears so it helps trick your brain that you're not simply listening through a headset.
languid beacon
Yeah quest as terrible as the audio was, was freeing not having anything on your ears and just hearing the world anyway
sweet nebula
The floating speakers of the Index HMD are by far the best part of that unit.
ruby burrow
The floating speakers on the Index have very nice quality, but I'm a little uncertain of how I feel about them to be honest. Having tried them now, I'm sort of leaning towards preferring the Vive DAS-headphones.
rancid vessel
Is the audio in vrchat still the static/crackingly like noise happening for anyone else?
sweet nebula
I love them. The displays, less so.
tranquil cobalt
It's on the bleeding edge so I empathize with what the devs are wrangling with to test this shit rn - but I'm hella excited for audio propagation in VRChat. It'll seriously be a game changer
sweet nebula
Yes it is, Coolmariodude, depending. It crackles for me when opening menus sometimes.
faint skiff
@ruby burrow How come? I mean in all ways other than audio isolation, they're better.
languid beacon
I want to skip Index and hope someone makes a high resolution, OLED, lighthouse headset
Iām a stickler for deep blacks
tranquil cobalt
Can you guys/gals check your CPU usage when you're playing so you can see if it peaks when those crackles happen?
rancid vessel
My CPU is at 50% and GPU even lower
faint skiff
@languid beacon They need to fix the black smearing issue before that's sorted. The blacks on the Index actually seem fine, the only time it stands out is in a completely black room. But in that scenario you'd have that grey haze in the Vive anyway due to the OLED pixels not turning off.
ruby needle
what about individual cores
ruby burrow
@faint skiff For me the reasoning is like this...
With Vive headphones, I'm laying on a beach, listening to the sounds of the Sea, enjoying a cool breeze blowing across me.
With Index speakers, I'm laying on a beach, listening to the sounds of the Sea, as well as the pigeons hooting outside my window, I can hear my brother ranting about his video game, and the whirring sound of my desk fan simulating that breeze.
tranquil cobalt
Might be worth determining if it's related to that or if it's aliasing from sample rate interpolation for bug reporting. Could be something totally unrelated too, but I'm leaning toward sample rate interpolation because they're using DSP/filters between sample buffers + it can do that sometimes.
You could get some crazy similar weirdness when you'd change the pitch of an audio clip and had it's import settings set to override the native Unity sample rate for instance
faint skiff
@ruby burrow Makes sense. Valve have added an array of mics to the Index so I'd be very surprised if they didn't add noise cancellation at some point.
ruby burrow
No not the mic, I mean I can hear too much of the real world due to the floating speakers.
The mic seems to be great, based on peoples unprompted comments about it so far.
faint skiff
No, that's what I mean. It has a mic array, using that, they can generate noise cancellation data so literally stop you hearing the outside world.
Have you ever use noise cancelling headphones?
rigid crescent
it soundssimilar to nicer modmics ive heard
ruby burrow
But the lack of noise cancelation on the speakers has been spoiling my immersion quite a bit.
Ah.
faint skiff
Doesn't work amazingly well on voices, but blocks most other things.
rigid crescent
hows the gain ?
faint skiff
(though personally I'm not a fan of noise cancellation, it makes the world unnaturally quiet and trips my brain's "impending doom" trigger)
languid beacon
I get no black smear on cv1 nor quest @faint skiff
sweet nebula
@languid beacon The only real option at the moment is the 5K XR for a respectable OLED headset, IMO. I want it more than I want Index, but I'm not willing to pay double the price.
ruby burrow
For VR purposes, I very much prefer removing the outside world. Is kind of the point.
languid beacon
Had it on dk2, never cv1 or quest
sweet nebula
$500 for Index HMD vs $1050 for 5K XR + DAS (required)
faint skiff
@languid beacon The CV1 explicitly had a thing enabled to get rid of the smear, but it also meant that it didn't have true blacks as the pixels were never turned off or set too dark
faint skiff
Then you're either blind, or lying
sweet nebula
Yeah, SPUD was toggleable in the registry.
Adeon is not lying, I owned a CV1 and shared a similar experience
There was limited to no black smear on CV1
faint skiff
But Adeon also said he ran a speaker at 50% volume for a while and didn't notice so I'm not entirely trusting of his general levels of perception...
languid beacon
I just assumed Quest was quieter. I donāt care if you donāt believe me though
sweet nebula
I'll clarify a bit, I'm sure there was some smear, just not horrific, Odyssey levels of it from what I ever noticed
Then again, even with SPUD off, I also never noticed pitch blacks
Good blacks, but not absolute blacks.
faint skiff
In which case something was still keeping the panel on, even with SPUD off...
sweet nebula
That being said, even with mura correction/"black smear prevention" enabled, the blacks were an order of a magnitude better than what I've experienced with the Index HMD
rancid vessel
Why would VRChat be lagging more since the update? :/ It worked perfectly before this update.. I would almost always get 90fps
now after the update that broke stuff majorly its 20fps.
sweet nebula
I wouldn't question it at this point Coolmariodude
The game is in a really bad place right now across the board for performance
rigid crescent
"broke stuff" š¤
sweet nebula
Network, client, and all
languid beacon
Yeah even with spud off (blacks are actually better with spud on, itās still miles better than LCD screens, at least way better than Index
rigid crescent
if you elaborate on what broke itd help
languid beacon
And then with spud on there is no comparison
inner cape
blacks are better - adeon 2019
rancid vessel
My guess is the lag is from the the new audio system is having issues rendering audio smoothly enough and its causing a fps lag some how.
sweet nebula
The way I see it is this: the market has unanimously decided, at least for now, that LCD is the future. Any attempt to deviate from that decision will result in a tremendous price hike and value-for-money decrease. OLED is better IMO, even with pentile. But the alternative is either a Vive Pro at $700, or a Pimax at $1k+
languid beacon
If lcd is the future r i p immersion
sweet nebula
It was already tremendously difficult to justify the Index kit at $1k. If I went 5K XR, it'd be closer to $1600-$1700
I just can't see how its worth that given the current state of Pimax
rigid crescent
all sounds/looks fine on my end, been in some fairly crowded rooms with lots of people speaking at this point. i actively soughtthem out
could be somethin else
faint skiff
@sweet nebula Many people already have base-stations, which means it's only a <$500
languid beacon
Yah i have old vive base stations for my full body so headset and controllers are 750
But going from 3 oculus sensors to 2 base stations means less coverage
sweet nebula
I do not have base stations. Theres an audience who are transitioning from Vive, which means they'll have v1 basestations and v1 controllers (Vive wands), but that too comes with its own disadvantages. The high failure rate, lower detection area, and manufacturer (HTC) are strong arguments to jump to Valve directly. The Vive wands are severely outclassed by the Index controllers, so that'll be a necessary upgrade regardless. But even if we disregard all of that, the 5K XR alone is $950.
But, then again, theres also a huge number of people jumping ship from non-lighthouse tracked devices, such as me. The Oculus crowd, and so on. CV1 tracking is horrendous and was one of the primary motivators to get me interested in Index.
faint skiff
People using FBT, or people with a Vive/Vive Pro, or any other lighthouse system have a cheaper route.
What high failure rate btw? And also the detection area is barely any different between the two.
sweet nebula
As stated on Valve's website and confirmed through user testing, the v2 lighthouses have a wider detection area due to the curvature of the front of the unit. The unit uses fewer moving parts (one laser scanner versus two), which ellminates compatibility with v1 devices (OG Vive, wands, v1 trackers) but improves durability and lowers rate of failure. Reported instances of v1 lighthouse failure online is high, and while its true that not every v1 lighthouse will fail ("but mine works just fine, thats nonsense"), the many that do end up braving HTC customer support. That subject alone is worthy of a few more paragraphs, bless their souls...
languid beacon
Listen. I garuntee you nearly no one who already had vive base stations went and bought index base stations to go with their index. Theyāre exactly the same
sweet nebula
But even then, I'd struggle to call it a cheaper route. The initial investment of the Vive coupled with the additional investment of the new v2 gear makes the overall investment even heavier.
You may save $300 at best, but I know next to no one sticking to Vive Wands. They are universally hated.
languid beacon
And yes I know the new stations have bigger tracking area and can do more than 2
Iād be shocked if anyone had vive base stations already and jumped on the 1K kit. If anyone did I am curious why lol
Maybe you are just loaded
sweet nebula
Honestly, this is just me
But even if I had a Vive kit, I'd still buy an Index kit
Every part of it seems bettter than anything the Vive kit had, minus the lack of colors, contrast, etc.
And thats not to say that the Vive wasn't a great unit. But, with the Index now released...
vocal shard
Very happy to get some of my infinity blade avatars quest compatible š
faint skiff
btw, having gone from the Vive to the Index, I've not noticed any decrease in colour quality. The only change was that reds don't look offensively bright anymore.
languid beacon
Iād love to be fully in the lighthouse system I just want a good OLED headset. Milky blacks ruin immersion for me
vestal sleet
Cost is a big factor for many people
sweet nebula
It comes down to personal preference. But, like Adeon, I believe that OLED is the right choice for immersion. I love punchy colors and deep blacks.
vestal sleet
I would go from a vive kit to index kit if it wasn't a 5 billion dollar investment
vocal shard
I definitely wouldn't call it milky blacks. But yeah OLED is better in that regard
frosty veldt
The v1 lighthouses already have really good tracking AOE so unless I start phasing through walls I should be fine
sweet nebula
I think that I would call it milky blacks, sadly. I don't want to hate too much on Index, every other part of the kit is sublime. But honest to goodness, I would prefer the Vive Pro displays, even at 90hz, over the Index displays.
faint skiff
As I said, you don't even notice the blacks being any different unless it's literally a completely black environment. Even the "chill and sleep" places look the same and those are mostly dark.
vocal shard
Overall I'm happy with LCD immersion. Clarity and less "texture" wins for me personally
frosty veldt
When I tried the index the colors seemed the same, can't comment on clarity as I couldn't wear my glasses so it was blurry as all hell
tranquil cobalt
Inb4 the year is 2040 and we're nostalgic about the good old days of XR when it had texture
see: fetishism of film grain
sweet nebula
Within the context of VRChat, one example that I can offer from my personal perspective is the appearance of The Pug between Rift CV1 and Index. On CV1, the shadows underneath the bar and table areas are perfectly dark. On Index, they are a sort of hazy gray, and I notice this effect bleeding a tad into the surrounding floor as well. Not nearly to the extent that it hits the dark shadows, mind you, but it becomes abundantly clear that I am looking at a screen plagued by IPS glow, as opposed to a dark area in a room.
frosty veldt
Damn kids running around with their VR sunglasses
tranquil cobalt
we historically love emulating the things we hated from tech in the past
weird occurrence
ruby burrow
I have noticed the slightly lesser contrast on the Index myself. Haven't used it long enough yet to get a good feel for preference.
desert stratus
to be fair, the pug does have issues specifically with index panels for some reason
ruby burrow
Speaking from the position of going from basic Vive to Index.
frosty veldt
Nostalgias a bitch
rancid vessel
I am lagging still, but gained like 3fps by enabling anti-lag in Radeon settings manager..
faint skiff
The Pug is fucked on the Index, don't use it for comparison
sweet nebula
The audio solution on Index has been holding me back from returning the unit over initial disappointment with the displays. The headphones are phenomenal, and I would buy them separately if Valve offered that
faint skiff
There's some sort of post processing going on that adds a white fog over the whole screen
vocal shard
I believe I heard that The pug specifically has a colour grading issue for LCD panels that I think owlboy is working out
faint skiff
One of the devs said that the maker of the map said it... yeah, as Jamie said
languid beacon
Yeah dark scenes are the coolest part of vr. It can really feel like you are in a dark place . LCD entirely destroys it
sweet nebula
Like, seriously, the Index's audio solution stomps all over the CV1, and even over my $200 broadcast monitor headphones.
ruby burrow
The screendoor effect is essentially gone. Is incredibly hard to see anything of it even when trying. Is more like looking through very clean glass than looking through a mesh.
But the lesser contrast has thrown me off a little.
sweet nebula
The audio team for Index needs a serious raise, kudos to them
tranquil cobalt
That's weird, I wonder why. Color space issue? I dunno if we can change the color space per world
languid beacon
Itās because OLED screens are made of individual lights. There is no backlight. Black pixels just have the light off.
frosty veldt
They are swapping to LCD to stop the sleeping epidemic in Vrchat
faint skiff
lol
tranquil cobalt
I meant about the issue with The Pug, unless that's what you're referring to!
ruby burrow
I'd also honestly like to be able to swap off the floating speakers for some that hugged the ears, for better external sound damping, if that were an option. Is kind of awkward trying to weigh up my feelings about it.
vocal shard
I think everyone has their own preferences of what immerses them more in VR. For me, I prefer the screens on my Lenovo wmr over my CV1. Being able to look at my hand and it looking like a solid colour rather than dots
languid beacon
There is a reason dark worlds are so popular on vrchat, on classic rift and classic vive these worlds are super immersive
vocal shard
Vrchat updated the Audio Volume?
ruby burrow
@frosty veldt Ironically on that front, I've found the Index is comfier to lay down with. Due to the ability to fold the speakers right back into a fairly secure position.
vocal shard
Vrchat updated the Audio Volume?, i can't hear my animations sound
faint skiff
@languid beacon Those worlds are perfectly fine on the Index. I tried some of them last night.
vocal shard
Vrchat updated the Audio Volume?, i can't hear my animations sound
faint skiff
@vocal shard Don't spam
vocal shard
i will if you not answering
faint skiff
No, you won't. <@&397642795457970181>
languid beacon
Maybe Index has better blacks than pimax then
ruby burrow
Sleng. If you spam, you will get kicked. Simple as that.
hollow breach
Lmao
languid beacon
But Iāve heard itās worse than cv1 with spud off
faint skiff
@languid beacon It has FAR better blacks than the Pimax.
vocal shard
<@&397642795457970181>
Can you answer? Vrchat updated the Audio Volume?, i can't hear my animations sound
faint skiff
@vocal shard Read the release notes for the latest version in #announcements
ruby burrow
No one here has an obligation to answer you. Especially not within 4 seconds of the first question.
faint skiff
@languid beacon https://i.redd.it/8f1nenurvb731.jpg
umbral reef
Also chatmods are mods not your personal answer slaves
inner cape
ya'll better stop pinging mods for no reason
hollow breach
^
tranquil cobalt
I felt my black levels were lifted on the Rift CV1, and I had a breakthrough moment when I plugged in a monitor to the same HDMI port and realized that Nvidia control panel remembers the level/range of the last monitor you had plugged in so it was using legal levels vs data levels
languid beacon
I wish this chart also had cv1 with spud off
faint skiff
But if you've been thinking of the Pimax the whole time when we're talking about the Index, then you will have made the conversation very confusing.
Because as you can see, they're not in the same league, heh
vocal shard
I'm gonna quit vrchat.. cause they updated the audio volume
i can't hear earrape anymore :((((
hollow breach
LMAO
languid beacon
Itās the only lcd I have personal experience with
umbral reef
<Maybe actually read the blogpost and get your answer there
faint skiff
@vocal shard Ok then, bye.
hollow breach
@vocal shard make new avatar
tranquil cobalt
so PSA: make sure your HDMI port is outputting full range data levels for your HMD...or else your blacks that should be 0 is actually 64 + your white point is 960 instead of 1023 which makes a massive difference in contrast/clarity
faint skiff
@languid beacon That's the problem though, you've been comparing something completely different this whole time...
vocal shard
@hollow breach new avatar will make it earrape?
faint skiff
@tranquil cobalt Shouldn't be an issue with SteamVR headsets as they use DirectMode which doesn't even use those settings.
vocal shard
i know how to make earrape, avatars, and animations
Plz vrchat devs bring back the global earrape
umbral reef
All i can see is you know how to get blocked and banned š
vocal shard
i'm gonna quit this
frosty veldt
Rip
vestal sleet
K then quit
rigid crescent
bye ā¤
hollow breach
Wait they actually gutted that?
rigid crescent
very well
broken fjord
did anyone notice that the vrchat store page says that wmr is not supported but when you get in the game you see wmr controllers
languid beacon
Own: DK2, CV1:
Briefly worn: Pimax, Vive, Quest
frosty veldt
You can have long range audio but not earrape
hollow breach
Huh, donāt have any ear rape avatars but damn dats a rip
rigid crescent
its not officially reported i think
umbral reef
@hollow breach Falloff makes it leaps less worse and makes it not really ear rape anymore
So unless they are literally inside you its not bad from what i heard
rigid crescent
it still works
frosty veldt
You can only stack 3 audio sources now as well, so you can't stack to increase volume
tranquil cobalt
@faint skiff I think Direct Mode bypasses Windows, but won't bypass your own card (which will dictate if it's full swing or not). I'm not fully sure, but I was auditioning grades on a VR project that was through SteamVR + it was like night and day after the switch (it also removed a lot of banding that shouldn't have been seen). Annoying to fix tho
torpid dome
asked this #avatars-2-general but i got no answer i need some help, whenever i try to build and upload my avatar it doesn't do anything. I have two models but the one that isn't part of the avatar doesn't have the avatar descriptor but the main avatar does.
so idk if that's the problem
i have chairs on the avatar, is that why it won't let my upload the avatar?
languid beacon
I also donāt even know which pimax I even tried
ruby burrow
Lol. Mission success on combating earape then I guess. Hard to believe people like that aren't just trolling the discord sometimes.
But I guess if they exist in game, they're going to exist here too.
patent nest
its like distorted
faint skiff
@tranquil cobalt It doesn't even show up as a display device on your card if it's in direct mode.
vestal sleet
Half the world is dummer than ur average human
frosty veldt
It's distorted because it's hit the limit where their compressor acts up
faint skiff
@languid beacon The 5K is better than the 8K and you can see how bad the 5K is there.
vestal sleet
Think about what that mean
patent nest
and also the menu
faint skiff
@ruby burrow I mean they're either trolling or have zero common sense.
tranquil cobalt
Yeah, I know! That's what sucked - the way we had to set it was to literally plug in a monitor to force the default to full range and THEN plug the HMD back in, lmao. I'm not sure if there's a better method
frosty veldt
@torpid dome make sure youre not paused
torpid dome
i'm not
ruby burrow
Regarding long range audio. How is that done now?
faint skiff
@tranquil cobalt Also it only affects HDMI, not DisplayPort so it shouldn't affect the Index at all (or any other display-port specific headset)
languid beacon
I wish it was possible to test an index before purchase
twilit pendant
hey does anyone play vrchat on MAC by chance?
ruby burrow
Because I noticed one of my animations has half of it's audio gone now. Presumably out of range.
languid beacon
1K is too much to risk
faint skiff
@languid beacon I mean you seem dead set on Oculus stuff so I'd not bother with Index.
tranquil cobalt
I can't confirm the issue with any HMD other than Rift CV1 because that's what we were testing on unfortunately :/
sweet nebula
You can order the HMD and return it within 14 days if its not your style, Adeon.
languid beacon
What gives you that idea
hollow breach
@twilit pendant you canāt unless u do the boot camp thing on mac
frosty veldt
@torpid dome vrc_station won't stop you from uploading, export what you want as a prefab and try a new scene, check the console for errors, delete and reinstall the SDK, ect
languid beacon
@faint skiff
sweet nebula
Every part of it aside the displays is vastly superior to anything that came before it.
Had they used OLED screens with Reverb resolution at 90hz, it would've been flawless.
twilit pendant
@hollow breach yeah my friend installed NVIDIA GForce and it works but her mic isnt working
languid beacon
My initial statement was I really want an oled lighthouse headset so obviously I donāt have any loyalty to oculus
faint skiff
@sweet nebula I assume they had good reason, I'm just not sure what. That said, 120Hz mode is nice. It's weird seeing it in motion, it's so smooth. Haven't tried 144 yet.
torpid dome
@frosty veldt how do i make something a prefab?
frosty veldt
Drag it from the hierarchy into your assets area
torpid dome
k thx
sweet nebula
I use a 165hz IPS monitor. I definitely agree that higher refreshrates bring some nice benefits in most situations. For Index, though, I was fine enough even at 80hz. The higher refresh was marginally better, but after spending a week swapping back and forth between 80 and 144, I think I would be okay to trade the refresh for OLED. The LCD panels had a bigger impact on my immersion, personally speaking.
ruby burrow
It's relatively rare to hit 120 fps doing anything in VR-Chat, but is definitely nice in other games.
sweet nebula
^Also, this
VRChat will never hit those high refresh rates, sadly. At the very least, I'll admit its nice to have a higher ceiling for reprojection purposes in some instances.
faint skiff
Well yeah, I wasn't really factoring VRChat into that. In worlds where I'm on my own I get 120 but other than that...
I get 120Hz in my home world luckily, as that's how I was testing it at the time.
ruby burrow
I was able to hit 120 when talking to one person face to face, with a few others a small distance behind me, but it would flicker between that and 90/100 with small turns of my head.
In typical situations with more people around or mirrors on etc, I was getting 60 due to the different reprojection cap.
sweet nebula
It was hovering between 30 and 50 FPS in a populated instance of The Pug for me, even with performance settings aggressively weeding out the "problem avatars".
Speaking of which, man is it disappointing to see so many generic robots after turning that setting up. Fix your avatars, people
languid beacon
Parin unintentionally or otherwise you were pretty much confirming and crystallizing all of my fears about buying an index. Iām the kind of person where those dark scenes mean everything to me and I will obsess over problems like that and most likely regret my purchase
sweet nebula
I'm the same as you Adeon
ruby burrow
This is on a R7-3600x and a 2070-super. For reference.
Damn it's nice to not be stuck at 21 fps for 90% of my playtime now. xD
faint skiff
Turned off avatars for Visitors and "Very Poor" avatars. Almost everyone in The Pug disappeared, lol.
sweet nebula
Make no mistake that if colors, contrast and black levels are your most important factors for a purchasing decision, you should avoid LCD headsets (including Index) like the plague
You will be disappointed
Some people will claim "its fine" or "its good enough", and it may very well be borderline acceptable. But if you live and die by it, you'll hate it
faint skiff
I went from the Vive to the Index and the difference in detail is massive. There's no way I could go back, especially as the difference with blacks really isn't that significant (and it's something that would normally bother me).
ruby burrow
I still need to test mine more. Only been using it for three days.
desert stratus
i dont comment too much on panels cuz tbh for now its a "whatevet you like" situation
languid beacon
I bought a quest just to have a high resolution headset and tried to stream pcvr but the latency was bad lol I returned it
desert stratus
current vr OLED and LCD is shitty enough that all sorts of people are gonna have different and varying levels of beef with either tech, until an ideal display comes out thats not gonna change
just try out like an OLED headset and an LCD headset, think about it for like 5 min, and pick
ruby burrow
At least it's giving the display industry something worthwhile to keep working on. It must have been getting hard to market 8k TVs and fancy panel types to people who can't tell the difference.
desert stratus
ikr i never gave two shits about displays until now
tranquil cobalt
Hook me into Neuralink and make me believe I'm seeing things IRL
desert stratus
hhh eheheh hold on
ruby burrow
The quality of a VR display is a far more demanding than one sat across your living room.
desert stratus
ive been awya from home for like 3 days my brain is still resetting
ruby burrow
And there's still a lot of very valid room to improve it too.
desert stratus
yeah tbh i dont get 8k tvs and what not, maybe theyre just not for me but theyre 5 feet away, 2d, and a lot not even curved
ruby burrow
I watched a video maybe 5 years ago, from one of the major Arma youtubers talking about why VR won't be viable for games like Arma for quite some time still, and his argument was that the visual clarity was far far too low for games where accurately spotting and observing small objects at massive distances is vital.
And I found it easy to agree with him after first getting to try VR.
desert stratus
yeah tbh, i feel that shit on cv1
tranquil cobalt
Also have to account for the fact that our eyes converge differently when we look far away or up close
desert stratus
one reaskn why i will take literally any 2019 hmd
cold talon
Install binocular lensens in the headset ez
desert stratus
and thats where half dome comes in!! ...in 2024 >u>
sweet nebula
Oh, I forgot to mention, there are other issues with the Index displays as well:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/c8ehs1/problem_with_index_vertical_lines/
^This is the real dealbreaker for me
ruby burrow
Arma is a game that would honestly be ideal for VR, and just amazing to play that way, but the tech isn't quite ready for that kind of thing just yet.
desert stratus
halfdome with fixed index lenses would be dreamy
rough pulsar
@sweet nebula That's a problem with some indexes, not a problem across all of them. I've never seen that happen to mine for example.
sweet nebula
It's definitely an issue with mine. I hope you're right, as my entire kit is being RMA'd right now.
rough pulsar
Like the comments are saying, that's a bad panel and should be returned for a replacement.
faint skiff
@sweet nebula I 'm almost certain that's actually people seeing the screen door effect but only intermittently. Because the screen door disappears entirely if you stop moving, but only becomes fractionally visible when you move.
rough pulsar
Exactly. So it's panel failure, not something part of the panels.
sweet nebula
The HMD for the line issue, the lighthouses due to one of them emitting a loud noise similar to a mechanical harddrive spinning up, and the controllers due to an issue with the rumble motor in the left one.
languid beacon
In terms of priorities for me
Contrast > Colors > Resolution > FOV > Framerate
sweet nebula
I can see the screen door when I am still. It is nothing like that picture. Also, it would not manifest exclusively in vertical lines if this were the case. But, to dispel any ambiguity, it's supposedly been confirmed a defect by Valve support.
faint skiff
Well in that case my headset is also defective.
rough pulsar
You get used to the Index's LCD black level, which really is very low for an LCD panel.
languid beacon
I simply could not see a screen door on Quest at all. I tried.
rough pulsar
Same with me and the Index, closest to SDE I can see is a fine grain on flat colours.
faint skiff
Has anyone actually used an Index that doesn't have this "issue"? I would simply dismiss it as part of the screen unless someone confirmed that it's actually a defect.
sweet nebula
Yeah, I think the SDE complaints of the OLED HMDs (minus Vive) are overblown. I was never, ever bothered by it on Rift. The low resolution iwas irritating, but not the gridlines that came alone with the gaps between the pixels.
rough pulsar
@faint skiff I see no SDE or similar effects on my Index.
sweet nebula
It varies from person to person, Enverex. Even so, I would be alarmed if this was part of the intended experience, as it negates the claimed advantages of clarity in motion that are used as a selling point on the Index's website.
languid beacon
I canāt see the screen door on cv1 either so Iām not one to have a trustworthy opinion on screendoors. I mean, I saw it on dk2. But not cv1
sweet nebula
There is no clarity when this effect is present.
faint skiff
Has anyone else double checked your headset? As others said they're checked friends who said it was fine and they could see it when the owner couldn't...
rough pulsar
The issues you guys are getting sounds like defective units
ruby burrow
I'll have to look out for this defect next time I'm on. I've not noticed anything like it just yet.
sweet nebula
I've no doubt mine is defective. As mentioned, its getting RMAd
rough pulsar
I'll fire mine up and take a photo through the lens as best I can
sweet nebula
It would require the panel to be transitioning pixels/have the image be in motion to accurately capture it, I'd think. Might be hard
Someone did, though. One sec
Picture in OP on that Reddit thread is just a mock up. Here's an actual through-the-lens:
https://i.imgur.com/qFvR3HB.png
faint skiff
Just need to manual priority your camera, set the exposure time very low and then take a picture as you're slowly moving the headset.
vocal shard
Oi
faint skiff
@desert stratus When it's to show an issue that you can see with your eyes, it's still useful
"I got my Index replaced for a different issue, and the new one had this problem. The problem definitely isn't present on the old Index." - Well that would suck.
languid beacon
Ok I think Iāve been convinced Iām gonna wait for maybe eye tracking to catch on and jump on whatever gen that ends up being
Index is super tempting but Iām just too picky
sweet nebula
Just give me the Index headphones tbh
Slap those on a Pimax, increase the Pimax build quality, and maybe pilfer the headstrap from the Index too. Then, chop $200 off the Pimax price
faint skiff
What is weird though, is that if it's a hardware issue, that implies you have two panels with the exact same issue, else it would look different in each eye.
sweet nebula
^There's been at least one person who has said they have the issue in one eye and not the other.
I do hope its a defect, because if its the way the panels are intended to function, this sucks
desert stratus
resspone to earlier: u right, but thats about it in my book. specifically, i never use thru-the-lens pics to make a choice on what to buy
faint skiff
Sure, but I mean for those of us that have the issue normally, it seems weird that both panels are identically broken.
@sweet nebula There are people saying they didn't have it on one headset and do on a different one, e.g. a replacement, so I wouldn't expect it to be normal. Despite thinking it's purely how the screen should look.
languid beacon
I had bad Mura on cv1 and the mura happened to be the same exact shape on both panels
desert stratus
if i have the chance, i try t out first. Else, i go by specs and a lot of word from a lot of people who own said HMD, as well as official reviews
rough pulsar
https://i.imgur.com/JLRIgal.jpg
through my left Index lens
sweet nebula
That looks about right, given the image is still
The issue comes when moving your head around/when in motion
faint skiff
@rough pulsar Not a great example. You need to look at a normal scene and then take the picture as the headset is moving.
rough pulsar
It looks the same in motion too
faint skiff
(and grey is literally the worst example...)
sweet nebula
My gray base station model in SteamVR exhibits the issue pretty nicely
I'd attempt my own pictures, but mine is packed up for shipment
rough pulsar
I cannot see any kind of line-like artifacting during any kind of motion of my head
sweet nebula
Gives me hope that I might get a good HMD back
I already have friends riding my case for getting Index so early into its lifecycle, but like. Man. Rift tracking sucks. Bad. Really bad...
I had to get rid of that Rift tracking. I hate, hate, hated it.
faint skiff
I'm in Europe though so that means it'll be from their exported stock anyway, not newer/fixed stuff, so this could go on forever.
inner cape
rift bad tracking 
rough pulsar
The worst thing I found with the Rift cv1 was the box shaped fov
And compared to lighthouse constellation doesn't feel quite as sharp and precise.
sweet nebula
Rift super bad tracking. Two base stations pointed across from each other at different corners of the room, neither of them looking directly at me. I sit on the couch, perfect tracking. Anywhere in the room, perfect tracking.
faint skiff
The worst thing, is there are people saying they didn't have the issue initially, but it developed over time...
sweet nebula
CV1 tracking: If that camera isn't looking dead at me, no dice. I try to pick something up off the floor, tracking is gone. I turn around, tracking is gone. I go 3 sensor, USB controller freaks out (even in 3.0/3.0/2.0 config). And even with three cameras, it still lost tracking in numerous instances.
Good. Riddance. I can't even lie about it anymore. It's so bad.