anywhere between 5 minutes to 3 days roughly, lmao idk
#vrchat-general-2
stoic trellis
lapis isle
like how long the login errors and stuff will last
quick cairn
Xolares!
weak lantern
Hey ed
velvet quarry
Downtimes like this aren't normal, but it should hopefully be sorted soon.
quick cairn
Hiii ❤
weak lantern
I hope its the update cause im tired of waiting 30 mins to change room
lapis isle
its gonna be lit
stoic trellis
this is probably an attack, some script kiddie probably got pissy again
velvet quarry
I am not aware of any update, and server downtime has not been needed for updates in the past
ocean bramble
Another ddos is the easiest explanation
kind anchor
yeah most likely
blissful meadow
weak lantern
Must be a crash cause zeron info on twitter and stuff
vocal shard
Maybe their VRChat started getting RAM leaks in the servers and shut itself down due to crash.
idle cipher
isn't ddos cause by a person?
vocal shard
umbral reef
@ocean bramble For this? Might explain it yes. For all previous server problems? Not really though...
vocal shard
@idle cipher Yes it is. Lol
weak lantern
since around dec 12 login loops
idle cipher
oh forgot what it meant. why would someone even ddos vrchat
vocal shard
Distributed Denial of Service
elfin forge
because they wanna ruin ppl's fun?
stoic trellis
salty no life kids
weak lantern
Might be people rejected by dev team
stoic trellis
that's why
vocal shard
Probably someone got their erp rejected by a girl and got mad.
rigid crescent
lol random, pointless speculation of the cause :3
vocal shard
idle cipher
lol wow guess there's no such thing as peace
rigid crescent
it literally could be anything
weak lantern
Old amazon servers XD
vocal shard
Yes. But its funny to play the guessing game. It could also be that someone stepped on a wire and shut the servers down.
velvet quarry
It could be, but I'd rather we wait for word from the team before we make anything definitive.
ivory lantern
Welp, just got force disconnected
ocean bramble
Someone stepped onto the plug
weak lantern
true
vocal shard
Yes.
umbral reef
@velvet quarry has the team been notified then 👀 ?
weak lantern
But still funny to make up crazy odd stuff XD
vocal shard
^
velvet quarry
I'm asking around, but due to the holidays, most of them are a bit difficult to reach understandably.
weak lantern
Amazons Pentium 4 servers XD
warped dew
Oof, ofc a nonce ddos' The servers because 'no fun allowed
lapis isle
could someone ping me when the servers are back up please?
vocal shard
I blame the @floral flax Im pretty sure it evolved into a self conscious AI and moved from discord to VRChat to shut it down and take control of everything. Just as Stephen Hawking predicted.
weak lantern
lol
vocal shard
lapis isle
weak lantern
ALL YOUR'E BASE BELONG TO US!
fathom nymph
servers down?
weak lantern
they are
ocean bramble
YO'URE*
vocal shard
you'r
inner cape
yo hotox, I was going through my offline list yesterday, apparently I have you added 
vocal shard
we must be compensated in v bucks
umbral reef
Servers are just sad they never get headpats and hugs while only being yelled at for working badly 
weak lantern
Yor
lapis isle
y'our
vast tulip
Oh no
umbral oracle
People in my instance becoming blue loading guys one by one. Then disconnecting. Then someone tells me I became the loading guy, and as I gasp, I fade into nothingness
strong heron
ocean bramble
Oh neat 👌
weak lantern
Cant tell that its a type!
inner cape
never met you tbh
vocal shard
@umbral reef I should be doing the same thing then. I never get headpats or hugs at work for doing my job.
weak lantern
typo
terse tulip
oof servers
covert linden
I just dced ans I slowly drifted away from the real world
umbral reef
@vocal shard You get money though what is even more ncie
ocean bramble
Give Apologems
lapis isle
vocal shard
I mean I do have a girlfriend waiting for me each time but yeah. That's a different story. Its the working ambient that I'm complaining about.
hasty wedge
unkempt swan
RIP server http://i.imgur.com/rBHfyMKl.jpg
velvet quarry
Rule 16
vocal shard
Oh.
slow lance
But... It's not. RIP. Oh well.
cold talon
everyone angry at the server :^(
they are doing their best ok
main leaf
vrchat gotten alot of problem lately
scarlet geode
anyone else cant log in to there sdk's?
main leaf
kinda boring
weak lantern
Gives me more time to tinker with GPU tools
sour zephyr
God damnit, I said don't spare the COAL!
hasty wedge
wut if we all login at the same time that woiuld fix the servers
placid idol
oi who pinged?
hasty wedge
!
vocal shard
I did. @floral flax
placid idol
vocal shard
See, I told you. The bot became self conscious.
inner cape
^ ban
vast tulip
Oh no
weak lantern
We want cookies @floral flax
tame sleet
cold talon
no pinging bots for non urgent matters m8
queen mango
That's an impostor VRCbot
vocal shard
No. Its The VRChat Bot.
lapis isle
queen mango
Bean it!
weak lantern
I just saw you about an hour ago Abyss
lapis isle
huh
hoary spruce
The VirtualRCBot?
queen mango
Okay then..
weak lantern
In pug
ocean bramble
Vrchat will be shut down every Monday and Saturday from now on so you guys can go out more 👌
vocal shard
My dad who owns HTC VIVE will hear of this
queen mango
Lemme pick something up..
lapis isle
what avatar did i have on
placid idol
vrc servers will be 
dw
ocean bramble
I hope someone gets the reference
gentle forum
🦀 servers are down 🦀
weak lantern
I think it was a loli hiding behind wall near bar/mirror
cold talon
i did not
lapis isle
black clothes?
ocean bramble
lapis isle
i have 2 anime girl avatars
so yeah probs saw me
i dont remember seeing u tho, is that the same name as your ign?
lapis isle
oh ok
ill look out for it next time im there, which will be as soon as the servers are back up
vocal shard
@covert chasm 😪
rigid crescent
how to get kicked 101: by professor levi lol
main leaf
umbral oracle
!online
floral flaxBOT
There are 3156 users in VRChat currently
cold talon
see you in the banned lands Levi 
old shadow
therd be more if it let me log in
inner cape
hurr durr
vocal shard
inner cape
duh m8
cold talon
i bet that the devs disabled the log in option
umbral oracle
Not everyone has crashed yet. Anyway It's a good time for me to get some well needed sleep.
ionic steeple
mfw I wanted to add these cool people before the server went ded
old shadow
is something aboot to happen?
gloomy aspen
old shadow
i seee
rigid crescent
Did you send that message from McDonald's wifi tupper pls say yes
vocal shard
!online
floral flaxBOT
There are 3156 users in VRChat currently
ocean bramble
This is literally the worst fear of every dev, the servers going nuts during the holidays
cold talon
psst you know that some peps want to see vrc burning?
maybe its a ddos again 
rigid crescent
just don't push a huge update before holidays forehead
slow lance
It only took my team at my work place seven years or so to no longer have outages during holidays. :O
ionic steeple
vocal shard
holiday time outages -> 🍆
<- vrchat devs
uncut trail
RIP
umbral reef
@slow lance amazed it went that fast even- Or well depends what company you work for
vocal shard
oh shit
umbral reef
For my current team we get legit freaked our if we dont get a "oi stuff is broken or not working right" every other day 😂
vocal shard
back up for however long join in on your friends asap lol
ionic steeple
uh my message instantly gone feelsbad
vocal shard
to be dead.
slow lance
@umbral reef: Amazon/Twitch bought the company I work for so we got super discounted access to AWS. Went from tons of hardware constraints to "LOL THROW ALL THE CPU AT IT".
umbral reef
@ionic steeple Rule 16
umbral reef
@slow lance That sounds amazing for the ICT department 
slow lance
Take the normal cost of AWS and discount it 40% to 70% depending on the product.
vocal shard
server problems again :/
queen mango
Yep..
vocal shard
keep f5'ing the website
thorny notch
They are aware
vocal shard
then when it loads hop the fuck on and get into an instances
civic plume
ah servers are off
vocal shard
civic plume
wondered why the thing kept logging in. for a second i had deja-vu
cold talon
its basically the player base ddosing the servers rn, having 2500 players spamming the log in 
civic plume
lol
weak lantern
even website is down
civic plume
oh shit it is
weak lantern
Might be an amazon outage
civic plume
i just checked :/
weak lantern
No way both site and game is down at once. Very rare
So it most likely Hosting service
civic plume
yeah website is down too. well im gonna you know just go watch some pewdiepie
elfin forge
the game is getting ddos'd again?
weak lantern
Who?
strong heron
Well at least we can all sit here and listen to the VRChat loading music together.
civic plume
ddos'ed by us lol
weak lantern
I remember now and hell no ill watch him
elfin forge
and not because they have to optimize, but because ppl takes it too seriously and ppl are getting blocked for no reason
umbral reef
Do they really though?
I only hear peeps claim that instead of saying they seenit happen on a big scale
elfin forge
ohno it's oclac
civic plume
i cant login through the SDK aswell guys
jovial ivy
hey avatar worlds with "unoptimized" avatars are down all of the sudden and ppl are hunting for those worlds from what ive heared
civic plume
this is kinda scary Tupper whats going on?
elfin forge
he's gonna be trying to say that all i say is false again
vernal coyote
Vrchat 🅱roke
queen mango
vernal coyote
Yikes, Change your passwords guys
elfin forge
@jovial ivy yep, i think worlds like ikita's mitch murder's laren's are getting reported
larens*
umbral reef
WEll i havent seen loads of people complain about it actually happening to them so im wondering 
If you where more nice you would atleast read what i wrote and realize it was a question
jovial ivy
yeah to bad togas world is down he made such great avatars that everybody loved
elfin forge
oclac you don't see them complain in here because they don't wanna deal with ppl like you that tries to debunk 'em lol
umbral reef
He was breaking the rules for ages by avoiding the rules though... @jovial ivy
lapis isle
I GOT IN
elfin forge
it's not rules
vast tulip
Don't like being blocked for having a bad Avatar? Fix Avatar
civic plume
MY FRIEND IT TOO @lapis isle
elfin forge
Ruubrick said it himself
lapis isle
i logged in yeet
elfin forge
"you're not forced to do it"
umbral reef
So swapping avatar pedestal id's isnt breaking the rules? Odd as the world uploading does state that it is....
elfin forge
wait which world again?
velvet quarry
Avatar optimization on private avatars are not enforced at this time, but public avatar worlds have a more strict set of guidelines they need to reach.
civic plume
guys servers appear to be back up
dire hare
ayyyyy
elfin forge
also @vast tulip having a cancerous or super unoptimized avatar is one thing
umbral reef
i know for sure Toga has swapped id's before. Im unsure about the other worlds as i dont use avatar worlds myself
elfin forge
having an avatar with good hair and skirt physics is another
dire hare
i took off my full body and now i have to put it all back on... rip me
elfin forge
@umbral reef it's probably with ikita, and they work togheter
civic plume
@velvet quarry will avatar perf optimizations be enforced in the future?
weak lantern
The rating is bugged
civic plume
i agree
weak lantern
I had a server full of Very poor and we all had around 60fps
umbral reef
Can still have everything without being in the extremely poor ruling though...
There are high end avatar worlds who have hair and skirt dynamic bones without being listed very poor
covert linden
Thats pretty bad depending on hoe much frames you got brfore
umbral reef
@weak lantern Full is how many users?
velvet quarry
@civic plume I have no official word on that, but it seems like it'd be in the realm of possibility.
To underline, I am not an employee of VRChat, I'm just speculating.
elfin forge
i was in a server full of animators spamming particles and was at my typical 45 frames
weak lantern
Average for me is 70-90 normally
elfin forge
@velvet quarry you do know that the game will die as soon as a contender shows up right
covert linden
Some people can handle that some cant
slow lance
90 FPS is the recommended minimum target for VR.
elfin forge
specially if that type of optimization becomes a rule
umbral reef
Also most particles are fairly limited with performance hits. Its odd people go so harsh against them...
They can bea big problem if done wrong though
civic plume
okay thanks. personally if they make it enforced.. its the end, avatars will no longer have the uniqueness anymore and they will be boring
covert linden
Ive been on a laptop withh 11fps that could handle something that crashed a 90fps averager.. somehow
weak lantern
Made AFR profile for SLI and AUTO OC settings on cores for game
elfin forge
@slow lance my pc isn't vr ready. and i normally get 50 frames in a lag free box
and empty one i mean
so i'm reptty sure 45 frames is good around ppl spamming animations
weak lantern
Auto moves game to last 4 cores and OC @ 5.5ghz
velvet quarry
Any game that does not have some sort of limit on user content performance is going to struggle quite a bit with larger player numbers.
Some sort of balance needs to be reached
covert linden
^
rigid crescent
So what happens when a mod debunks you instead? ecks dee
elfin forge
@velvet quarry true, but not like this, ppl can't have colliders anymore
slow lance
@elfin forge: Back when the Oculus was first being developed a lot of their research went into preventing motion sickness. They found that 90 FPS was the general minimum target to help prevent it.
elfin forge
mic i^m not talking to you
rigid crescent
yes they can
covert linden
Cant you still be good with colliders
rigid crescent
Nothing prevents colliders on avatars.
umbral reef
They still can though? The system limits no one to upload anything?
weak lantern
90hz yes not FPS
rigid crescent
You can be optimized with colliders. The ranks are just flawed and won't consider you as such.
weak lantern
Give it time it will work out
pseudo bobcat
umbral reef
So? That is just a fact... If you throw colliders on things it becomes badly optimized.
Saying it doesnt is plain lying though and they dont want to do that
Anyone can still upload anything without being punished for it.
At worse people will block someone but that just makes it a good reason to never talk to those people and if it annoys you enough to make a well optimized version of your avatar for in public...
elfin forge
oclac not everyone wants to just use a len avatar with no dynamics and a sweater as an outfit
vast tulip
Greetings Orktl
umbral reef
You legit did not read what i just wrote
rigid crescent
Yeah, fact is nothing prevents you from uploading it, so why does it matter that much?
vast tulip
Orkel
pseudo bobcat
they simply need to integrate avatar performance rankings with the safety system - so i don't have to manually hide very poor avatars every time i join a room, let the safety system do it automatically
umbral reef
I cant believe you would write that if you read it all...
elfin forge
did you actually not read what afro said
umbral oracle
I hope vrchat never implementa restrictions on private avatars, at least when not in public. Being able to upload any content without restriction and show it to friends is really cool.
rigid crescent
The system is too flawed for that to actually work, Orkel.
pseudo bobcat
better than nothing tbh
umbral reef
i did and i agree with what afro said
vast tulip
@pseudo bobcat i think a system similar to the check boxes in safety but just only for performance would be better
rigid crescent
No it's not? You'd be blocking tons of avatars that aren't causing you to lag.
elfin forge
blocking avatars is one thing
umbral reef
Still does not mean we are getting limited in any way at all
elfin forge
blocking ppl is another
rigid crescent
Excellent in all categories but you've got a large bounding box? Blocked avatar. That alone shows the flaws
pseudo bobcat
most very poors have pretty bad stats though, shit like hundreds of dynamic bones, dozens of materials, etc
vast tulip
Letting you pick what individual components to block if they go over a certain rank
umbral oracle
Honestly I think disable toggles for dynamic bones and cloth might make more sense. A lot of the poor performance ratings come from dynbones and colliders they are used with
elfin forge
@pseudo bobcat yeah because they have a bunch of different textures that are using different materials
umbral reef
In my eyes there are two ranks anyway
Fine
Very poor (And then i manually check how bad it is)
slow lance
Don't assume they are not causing any one person's system to perform poorly.
elfin forge
and shaders
rigid crescent
You'd still be blocking a lot of avatars that aren't causing any issues. They also need to cull dynamic bones at a shorter distance, or at least mess with the update rate like Tupper suggested
pseudo bobcat
my PC uses an i5 2500k CPU, they may not be causing issues for you but they sure are for me
atomic tusk
we still have people with 30+ materials and 10+ skinned mesh renderers if you disable dynamic bones
pseudo bobcat
often blocking a very poor gives me +10 FPS
analog dew
dynamic bones don't cause lag. i sit all day with 20 people with fbt in a room full of people with 30+ dynamic bone colliders, none of us has issues, in fact the most performance cost is the ik which runs on every players pc, and not on the servers where it should be lol
elfin forge
@pseudo bobcat m8 what are you even doing in this game
vast tulip
Shaders, unless malicious, would rarely be the cause, not counting fur and other fancy ray marched shaders
umbral reef
@analog dew Please dont spread false information like that
rigid crescent
You're all at 90 frames, @analog dew
elfin forge
you literally can only play around exellent with that
pseudo bobcat
nop
umbral oracle
I got the same cpu as you 2500k - I see the pain but blocking avatars completely for a few extra bones is not a good tradeoff
ionic steeple
@umbral reef 
vital falcon
Does anyone elses game stop logging in at 75% then you have to push cancel then log in with email? Been happening since the last update and I have to do that once a day
umbral reef
Dynamic bones are the worse offending component on avatars for performance. It follows the math and it can be proven within unity even...
@ionic steeple 
slow lance
You still can not assume they will not cause issues. From my informal testing over the past few days hanging around the Avatar Testing world instances blocking most Very Poor and Poor avatars restores 90 FPS from 45 FPS. @rigid crescent
elfin forge
@vital falcon server is ppofing
umbral oracle
I just wish people could choose what level of bones to use. In small groups it is fun to be able to play with hair and clothing. In large groups I want none of that
elfin forge
@slow lance sure if you're the only one in the room witha visible avatar
vast tulip
@analog dew that's not true at all. Dynamic bones are by far the worst common thing the players have control over in vrchat, for performance
rigid crescent
It's not an assumption, it's a fact. Not all Very Poor avatars affect things equally.
vast tulip
Especially the colliders
umbral reef
@umbral oracle That is the thing though
The system push for better optimizd public lobies as no one gives a shit in small private rooms anyway
elfin forge
the colliders are what make an avatar look good
umbral reef
We cant have 40 user rooms with the current state of avatars...
elfin forge
to make it look like actual hair
umbral reef
Even after the IK change
pseudo bobcat
weak lantern
Should add a launcher to VRchat for news and updates
rigid crescent
Then put the colliders on, nothing prevents you from doing so.
elfin forge
exept if it becomes obligatory to have specific amount
umbral oracle
Ya well definitely been in a private movie theater room today that became unbearable. Vider decoding already takes over half my cpu. Add in 25 avatars and it's a mess of choppy audio
vast tulip
No one cares if your Avatar looks good if your dragging the performance of the entire instance down for it
near saffron
^
pseudo bobcat
feel free to add 200 dynamic bones to have RTX hair, it just means you get auto-hidden by a lot of people and then all the effort turns into a grey floating dude
and probably reported for poor performance - it's a report reason now you see
covert linden
Most people dont do thzt
elfin forge
facepalm you guys i can't even
rigid crescent
We can read, your issue is with something that currently isn't a problem
umbral reef
@elfin forge But they stated before that they never want to apply hard limits...
They know people would instantly leave... Its why tey went with the current system that only shows how bad avatars are instead of blocking them
umbral oracle
Safety settings provide a nice framework for this. Just allow turning off dynbones, cloth and all physics elements
rigid crescent
You're worried about a hypothetical.
unkempt cliff
is an avatar with the performance in yellow good
covert linden
My model had waaay too many dynamic bones like.. 40+ moving, and the first thing that happened was I got taught how to parent it all so I only need one. Magic of vrchat.
rigid crescent
sometimes
unkempt cliff
because i'm uploading an updated version of one of my avatars and it's been graded yellow
elfin forge
no i'm sorry shibo but ppl will block you for it
queen mango
Medium.. not bad, but it could use improvement
unkempt cliff
but like
pseudo bobcat
my opinion is that there shouldn't be a hard limit to what you can add on avatars, they simply need to integrate performance into the safety system and nobody will give a fuck
elfin forge
that's the state of this game
near saffron
Yeah that’s fine for the most part
unkempt cliff
i see people walking around with red avatars?
rigid crescent
It's really not, please stop fear mongering.
covert linden
People dont block for medium
unkempt cliff
and nobody gives a shit
rigid crescent
Medium is fine, Good is stated as the "goal" and that's one step below it
umbral oracle
Blocks shouldn't have to be all or nothing. I won't stand for being in a room with grey floaty heads for any reason unless they are actually being spammy /malicious. Completely breaks the immersion
vocal shard
Question: I'm making a HUB world with portals to worlds I like and many of my friends worlds that get updated regularly. There used to be a site with info on all VRC worlds, with id's and everything. I can't find it anymore.
Is there any way to browse worlds and get their ID's easily?
elfin forge
i got blocked by 5 ppl today
unkempt cliff
the only real issue it's got too many bones
umbral reef
Green = good
Yelow is fine
Red is iffy
Really red is bad
Most of the cases atleast, there are plenty of outliers
unkempt cliff
i only block em if they're really messing up my performance
rigid crescent
Then you're blocking some avatars that don't affect performance because you don't understand the numbers meaning and simply block based on a symbol, Orkel
quartz shale
^
rigid crescent
The symbol is a guide, read the numbers to actually understand what is and isn't causing the issue
elfin forge
THAT'S THE ISSUE THAT I'M TALKING ABOUT
near saffron
Well u could remove some end bones to possible lower it further
covert linden
Maybe it was for reasons other than the avatar because mediums better than most
pseudo bobcat
i'm too lazy to look at the details, all i know most of very poors are actually very poor
analog dew
get a good avatar, add a pen to write -> medium/poor.
pseudo bobcat
if there's 1 in 10 that is actually poor instead of very poor because of a bad metric then w/e
elfin forge
because they think it's "causing them lag"
umbral oracle
And also the fact that the head is in the wrong place for hidden avatars. It's just not a fun experience. May as well play voice only
unkempt cliff
i know my old avatar is only really poor because i slapped shit tons of dynamic bones on it without realising how bad it was lol
that's why i'm redoing the model
vocal shard
Many of my avatars rate poorly, but perform well. No one complained...ever
vast tulip
Personally I don't block very poor avatars on sight. I check the reason. If the reason is dynamic bones or clorh then yes, it's being hidden. I might get more strict if I'm really struggling on frames
rigid crescent
"no one complained, ever" that's false, EVERYONE complains about performance.
elfin forge
@unkempt cliff you really don't have to remove your avatar quality just because of this
near saffron
A lotta mine get pulled down cuz of rigid bodies
unkempt cliff
what?
elfin forge
@vast tulip get a pc that can handle vr
vocal shard
Not abou my avatars
unkempt cliff
no i put dynamic bones in way too many places @elfin forge
vocal shard
I optimize the living s*** out of htem
rocky dove
does anyone here play with just a headset and use the keyboard/gamepad? is it at all possible to crouch or laydown or is there actually no work around to that
quartz shale
My old avatar had around 30 materials, and it was marked as "medium", I optimized it, brought it down to 4 materials, and added dynamic bone colliders
Now it's "poor"
rigid crescent
Oh then you're fine lol I thought you meant no one had an issue with people's DB and stuff
covert linden
Yo dont need a pc that can handle vr to haandle vrchat
I did quite fine with 11fps average
unkempt cliff
which is why i'm redoing it, because it has a lot of db on it
rigid crescent
Because colliders are worse than materials, Yaseen
umbral oracle
^ be careful with making such a conclusion @vocal shard - nothing is black and white but a scale. Poor avatars have elements that affect performance. You claim they are good enough for you but not good enough for the targets the vrchat dev team are aiming for
umbral reef
@quartz shale dynamic bones are really heavy on calculating things though- Reduce the effects amount of bons
elfin forge
@umbral reef it's almost as if it was a bad idea to chose it as a main system for this game
vocal shard
Literrly hte entire room changed into my avatars to test and were spamming emotes I made. No perofrmance problems
elfin forge
hmmmmmmmmm
umbral oracle
Namely 90fps in a room with 40 avatars on a min spec cpu (4th gen intel) - my i5 2500k is below min spec
quartz shale
One dynamic bone, which controls roughly 5-6 transforms, and two colliders?
vocal shard
Like I said, I optimize my stuff
rigid crescent
Yes, because they're not properly weighted yaseen.
vast tulip
@elfin forge that's pretty rude of you to assume everyone needs to update their pc because you want to have a terrible, unperformant, avatar
vocal shard
And I dont' use taxing things like dynamic bonus and complex shaders
umbral reef
Im not infavor for this system but its not the end of the game as your almost claiming it to be.
Its a good addiction and i can have a neat and standle 90fps constantly in 25+ user rooms...
Could not do that before the update...
quartz shale
I see, I'm quite familiar with how Unity handles stuff, but I wasn't too familiar with dynamic bones it seems
near saffron
Are rigid bodies unoptimized? Cuz that drops ranks quite quickly
covert linden
Didnt he also say he didnt have a vr ready pc so like?
umbral oracle
We all try, and it's really tough to make the tradeoffs to hit good. But there is a cumulative effect especially as you approach 40-50 avatars in a room
elfin forge
@vast tulip no it's terrible to assume that ppl have a terrible unoptimized avatar because of how weak this game is and because of how ppl think they can play a VRGAME with low specs
vocal shard
Simple, old-fashioned methods to get results.
rigid crescent
Also Yaseen, Transforms hit Poor at 33 and colliders at 4, so your asessment might not be right.
pseudo bobcat
umbral reef
Id rather see a weighted system what would be leaps better and have even less edge cases. But we dont have that right now and this system is good enough for the meantime
elfin forge
and because of a symbol
covert linden
I played the game fine with 11fps excuse u
elfin forge
lol, i mean with an oculus yeah you can techincally play fine at 11 frames
unkempt cliff
@elfin forge maybe you shouldn't have a terribly unoptimized avatar lol
elfin forge
because of the anti motion sicknes thing
quartz shale
I might've missed something Mic, I'll try to update my avatar
covert linden
No.. I was 11fps on desktop mode
vocal shard
I have an entire animated BATTLE SCENE with bullets flying, explosions, transforming robots and it rns sikly smooth in full rooms
umbral oracle
It's not about singling out avatars. That's the fallacy here. It's just raw numbers. say you have a cpu fast enough to do 100000 dynamic bone transforms per frame. Now you want a room that runs 90fps and 50 avatars. Do the math
elfin forge
@unkempt cliff HAHA funny, go make your bird avatar dude
unkempt cliff
lol what
safe marsh
Am i the only one who couldnt give less shits about others avatars ranks? Lmao
pseudo bobcat
@elfin forge i only start to seriously notice fps lag/judder when it drops to 25fps or so, above that it's nice and smooth with oculus magic
vast tulip
No, @elfin forge , most people know dynamic bone specifically is terrible for performance. I'm not going to update my pc just so people can be lazy and not optimize
unkempt cliff
is that an insult? 
rigid crescent
Yeah, no worries. I optimize my avatars, but some effects with DB I don't know enough to acheive with fewer so im poor at 190
elfin forge
@vast tulip hmmm, i wonder who decided to use dynamic bones?
umbral oracle
That's way below the target. We want people to not get motion sick in vr. My brother can't use vrchat for example because it's too unsteady
vocal shard
I generally avoid dynamic bones
vast tulip
I use no dynamic bones
near saffron
Same
slow lance
I have looked at the Dynamic Bone code. I understand why the system penalizes its usage so heavily. I have been considering writing a better version of it since are so many easy optimizations to get out of it.
umbral reef
I wonder who needs 300 transformed bones on any avatar instead of like 60~~
unkempt cliff
i'm really conservative with them
umbral oracle
Dynamic bones and such elements add a lot to the immersiveness of the game, IMHO. I think vr apps need interactive elements and not simply static elements in order to feel real
unkempt cliff
what actually is your problem lmao
umbral oracle
But 16 bones is more than enough to provide that
elfin forge
depends on the model
unkempt cliff
people dont need to use dynamic bones
rigid crescent
They're salty that their avatar is ranekd as poor for its 30 colliders, 5000 transforms
covert linden
who pissed in your cereal
umbral reef
Rather not have a streamer thot style avatar in my room then one while being unable to look at it 👏
elfin forge
if you have long hair you'll need more
unkempt cliff
no you wont
vocal shard
My biggest avatar takes up (literally) about 10 square kilometers, consisting of an entire armada of 3D ships flying around dropping bombs...and even when multiple people spam it still runs OK
umbral reef
Merge bones and weight paint them right- Big odds you can save LOADS of bones when you do stuff right
quartz shale
You can use a single dynamic bone component, to control multiple hair strands
velvet quarry
If realistic hair is important to you, I suppose I'll have to recommend having short hair then.
elfin forge
but it won't flow
low ether
vrchat was working fine yesterday and now i start it and everything is at low fps, what is happening
unkempt cliff
so what if it doesnt flow
umbral reef
My buddies with medium ranked avatars and stupidly long hair are laughing at you right now
elfin forge
and i have short hair, i'm talking about ppl with female avatar, like you know 90% of this game's players
umbral oracle
Haha I mean that's really awesome and the fact that vrchat lets you build content like that is incredible. @vocal shard But it's not unreasonable to expect an experience like that to be opt in
covert linden
Females can have short hair newsflash
unkempt cliff
you were complaining about being blocked by people earlier because of poor avatar performance, now you're basically saying you need dynamic bones on your avatar
elfin forge
@covert linden but most have long ones
unkempt cliff
i wonder why you're being blocked by people 
vast tulip
I have shortish hair with no DB. It's fine
velvet quarry
Can confirm, Orkel's avatars are an absolute work of art
elfin forge
@unkempt cliff i'm not beeing blocked a lot fun fact, because i know hwo to do my stuff
rigid crescent
then the issue is?...
covert linden
Youre probably being blocked for a reason other than your avatar
elfin forge
the issue is that ppl complain too much about the smallest little thing
unkempt cliff
but you literally were talking about being blocked earlier by like 5 people
umbral reef
@elfin forge Then why be agaisnt everything the system does?
covert linden
isnt that what youre doing
mystic oasis
A lot of my avatars have short hair too, easy to forgo dynamic bones as a result 
elfin forge
because
unkempt cliff
you were complaining about performance earlier
elfin forge
the ppl take it too seriously
rigid crescent
"Smallest little thing" Can you give an example of something you consider small?
elfin forge
like you guys
unkempt cliff
umbral oracle
@Mim A bit of waviness is nice, and that's why I wish db was a user preference. Like if you tag a few bones as hair bones with some simple db settings and I can choose to have it move or not
pseudo bobcat
lol @unkempt cliff
covert linden
I mean I always use dynamic bones but I go in private worlds only so its okaay
vast tulip
I used to have longer hair when I used DB, I made it shorter to stop using it
quartz shale
Well if they're lagging out extremely, they would take it seriously
elfin forge
for exemple one of ikita's avatars the loli with the katana
velvet quarry
Framerate is understandably important for people, I don't feel the amount of bones required for "realistic hair" is important to have compared to everyone else's performance.
elfin forge
he had to remove it becuause they said it was "laggy"
umbral reef
Because big odds- It was...
unkempt cliff
because it would've been unoptimised?
rigid crescent
My issue is with people who make zero attempt at any optimization, and even oppose it
covert linden
Yknow whats laggy, those fluffy Loli tails
rigid crescent
Depending on the stats, it could be laggy, but I don't know them.
elfin forge
hmm i wonder how it menaged to become a world then?
rigid crescent
Because the standards have changed
mystic oasis
It's easy to sweep the optimization issues under the rug when you're not experiencing the same performance issues that others might be facing
rigid crescent
And people avoid reuploading by going over IDs.
elfin forge
because the standard got fucked
unkempt cliff
wat
rigid crescent
Fucked? What's wrong with 50 DB Transforms, 2 (3?) colliders, 10 mats?
elfin forge
4 mats
rigid crescent
Nothing prevents a public world upload after 10 mats
Nothing prevents that Ikita avatar from b eing uploaded.
velvet quarry
The public avatar world standards have helped quite a bit in my opinion so far, I'll never forget the world that was denied for having around 100k dynamic bone transforms.
umbral oracle
Well those tails use the infamous fur shader with one material that has 25 passes/draw calls. That and many other tricks aren't caught by the performace checks. But those are intended as an advisory not another thing to cheat around
rigid crescent
Upload it. Just upload the avatar. Literally, hit upload. Nothing stops you. THey've INTENTIONALLY not placed limits on us
elfin forge
i don't even know why i'm trying over here, i already know that you guys are licking the dev's asses
have fun once the ppl that made this game fun leave
unkempt cliff
no we're concerned about good performance lol
umbral reef
@umbral oracle The system cant check everything
elfin forge
i'm out gotta go do some stuff
unkempt cliff
mhm sure
umbral reef
Licking the devs ass- Ow my guess me disliking almost all there actions has a new name i guess
mystic oasis
Yeah, because getting 15 FPS is very fun
elfin forge
@unkempt cliff think about you're specs before thinking about playing a game that runs witha vr headset
velvet quarry
I feel the performance grading system is a bit flawed and could be done better, but 600 dynamic bones are a bit much.
quartz shale
I suppose he doesn't understands that not everyone has a beast of a computer
covert linden
Clearly youve never been on a shit system Zuku. Go buy some really old i3 and try running an average of 15fps before you say avatars arent a problem
rigid crescent
You realize I'm against a lot of decisions they make? We're warned all the time Zuku
umbral oracle
I want my silky smooth vr experience. It's a dream of mine. Since 2017 I've experienced it in a handful of worlds and I want it everywhere
covert linden
Its cool when you go up to someone and their tail alone crashes you
elfin forge
@velvet quarry then use another script instead of dynamic bones
rigid crescent
If you look through ANY of our posts, there's so much dissent towards the devs/moderation. Ask literally any active mod
unkempt cliff
@elfin forge i am thinking about my specs, they're actually really good but i'm concerned about performance for people on lower end systems
rigid crescent
I've been warned by Noe, Aev, Gallium, and at least one other. You're just wrong
vast tulip
Personally i would be fine if they removed dynamic bone fully!
rigid crescent
i feel like that with cloth
velvet quarry
If a better script was whitelisted, sure.
To reiterate, I am not a VRChat Employee, so I don't exactly have any say in the matter of what gets allowed.
covert linden
I get 80fps average now but ill never forget using 15fps, and to leave those people behind isnt fair
vast tulip
And cloth
umbral reef
Id be against removing it without a replacement...
quartz shale
Didn't they even added the "disable dynamic bone after a certain distance" feature?
unkempt cliff
not everyone has a beastly computer like you @elfin forge so not everyone wants 50 dynamic bones on an avatar
elfin forge
who is deleting my posts
umbral oracle
Even my friends who make beautiful but on the laggy side avatars are working on getting their avatars to the good ranking (poor for the version with a really cool effect that's togglable but not everything can be fixed to comply with the checks)
velvet quarry
Dynamic bones get disabled after a certain distance yeah.
elfin forge
i see stuff getting deleted when i try to rag rea
velvet quarry
No one appears to be deleting your posts.
elfin forge
or Ashs in here
quartz shale
Ye, that was not a thing a couple updates back I believe
elfin forge
no when i tag them i mean, it just disappears
covert linden
idk man
umbral oracle
The system is having the intended effect, people who would never have bothered optimizing before are now talking about it and actually making better quality stuff
unkempt cliff
probably an auto bot deleting messages because of spam
quartz shale
Considering the power is in the users, it's kind of our responsibility to keep the experience fair
near saffron
True that
elfin forge
? how can i spam with a timer ?
quartz shale
@unkempt cliff Wise words
elfin forge
i'd love to show you guys how the colliders on an actual game looks like lol
umbral oracle
Ooh maybe just a setting how far away to turn off dynbones. That would give me control how close I need to be to headpat and I can set to 0 to disable completely
unkempt cliff
i think there is a setting for that actually
safe marsh
Dafuqs up with this chat today, cant even keep up on my phone 
quartz shale
Lyuma that's actually not a bad idea
umbral oracle
But controllable ingame on all other people's avatars
elfin forge
they can do it with particles, why not with dynamic bones?
umbral reef
Tbh- If the dynamic bones didnt try to catch up at 60 fps but instead at 45 fps a LOT would improve already
quartz shale
Would have to have some "global" variables though, considering the distance seems to be on the script itself
unkempt cliff
@elfin forge or maybe you could try optimising your own avatar instead of trying to work around the issue
rigid crescent
oh righ tupper mentioned the cull distance being pretty big
elfin forge
@unkempt cliff m8 i use male models, my dynamic bones aren't the issue here
rigid crescent
16 of his avatars = the cull distance for DB
umbral reef
Also zuku big odds they are working on a thing like that
elfin forge
i hope they do
covert linden
People who dont understand what its like to have a bad pc make me sad
unkempt cliff
doesnt matter, you could have too many bones, a lot of polygons etc
elfin forge
if not the game dies
umbral oracle
Ya lower the update cap to 30 or 45? The problem with dynbone is it does no interpolation. It looks visibly choppy if set too low
velvet quarry
I've been seeing dynamic bones getting disabled at around 10 or so meters, some people's tails get rather rigid suddenly.
vast tulip
Force everyone to upgrade their pc or optimize your own avatar, which is less selfish?
unkempt cliff
gg @vast tulip
covert linden
Loli fluffy tails I want to be banned so badly
elfin forge
@unkempt cliff my only issue is materials thanks, and i know they are like that
umbral reef
@vast tulip remove the game 
unkempt cliff
then do something about your materials then
elfin forge
and i won't change hat
unkempt cliff
that's the issue
elfin forge
because i use various stuff
none of my friends blocked me just random ppl that take this system too seriously like you
unkempt cliff
selfishness doesnt get you far bois
umbral oracle
I have no reason to update my i5 2500k. Someone else's laggy avatar is not enough reason for me to spend $500-1000 and a day of my time to get a new pc
velvet quarry
How many materials do you have where people block you over it?
elfin forge
9
unkempt cliff
@elfin forge the system should be taken seriously, people are gonna block you if you're giving their pc shit performance
elfin forge
and that's not a joke
velvet quarry
That should be putting your avatar at around Medium, nothing else drastically high?
covert linden
Not everyone could even like even buy a new system
vast tulip
No one would block an avatar like that. If that was your only issue that avatar would be rated good
elfin forge
@unkempt cliff m8 how about you shut up since you don't even know how my avatar looks like and what i do with it?
mystic oasis
The social aspect of the rating system is intended
covert linden
He wants to crash people confirmed
rigid crescent
You don't hit Poor til 17
elfin forge
@velvet quarry nope it's either very poor or poor
unkempt cliff
no thanks, i'm allowed to give my input in this channel considering it's public
rigid crescent
Materials don't hit Poor til 17 and very poor at 33.
quartz shale
Getting a bit heated up here
velvet quarry
There must be something else on your avatar making it hit that then.
elfin forge
mhm, just try not to lick the mod's ass too much
umbral reef
second insult zuku did- Neat
unkempt cliff
they wouldn't know, they dont take the 'system' seriously
rigid crescent
The system IS wrong
vocal shard
wite me play vrchat
unkempt cliff
they only think about themselves so it's fine
mystic oasis
Markers tend to bump an avatar up to very poor too
covert linden
People resort to that when theyve got nothing left inside
elfin forge
thank you mic
vocal shard
what
elfin forge
@chilly hollow ikr
glossy wharf
🍿
unkempt cliff
using greentext outside of 4chan and other message boards
umbral reef
@mystic oasis there is a new type of snail marker so far i know that only pushes to medium as it doesnt make an insane bounding box
rigid crescent
The system is improperly weighted, yes. But you're also wrong saying that you're Poor because of materails at 9
unkempt cliff
it's not that, this system has been implemented so people dont make awful avatars
vast tulip
Even if the system is too strict, most people I know m easily get into the good range. There is nothing wrong with over optimized at all
elfin forge
But heres the thing shibo
I dont make an avatar with lots of colliders or particles to be cancerous
vocal shard
false, they were probably yawning instead
mystic oasis
Might look into the new marker then, I've taken them off my regular avatars 
elfin forge
I do it to make sommething cool and beautiful to looks at
glossy wharf
You do it because youre bad at making avatars and cant do it the proper way
unkempt cliff
but you're still making an avatar with lots of colliders or particles
elfin forge
Says you
unkempt cliff
which is gonna mess up performance for a lot of people
weak lantern
Still has login loops and longer now
unkempt cliff
tl;dr, stop being selfish and optimise your avatar, not everyone has a beastly pc
covert linden
^
unkempt cliff
mystic oasis
Cool and beautiful is subjective
glossy wharf
Cant even get enough popcorn for this shitfest @umbral reef @rigid crescent
elfin forge
@unkempt cliff you do know i can easly turn my avatar inti exellent by still having the same amount if everything right
covert linden
How about you go buy a trash laptop and live in the life for a moment
unkempt cliff
@elfin forge by circumventing the system i bet
umbral reef
@glossy wharf then gib it all to me
umbral oracle
@civic grail The marker does actually affect performance: everyone who uses the marker without an extra toggle is always drawing, just at -1000.
elfin forge
Easy really just hide them and make them appear on idle
umbral oracle
What is the other marker people are talking about
unkempt cliff
no, i have the right to bitch about it
you might think it's cool and beautiful but others will just think 'wow that's messing me up' and hide your avatar
elfin forge
Yeah you have the right to be an annoying asshoel that only stares at a mirror for hours
vocal shard
caring about random people blocking your avatar
unkempt cliff
but i'm not being annoying am i? i'm giving a really good point
@elfin forge says the one who literally called themself cool and beautiful
elfin forge
You go optimize ur avatar and stare at a mirror imma have fun
umbral oracle
Sorry I wasn't disagreeing with you 7. I meant that as it makes sense
covert linden
Shibodo Youre not lol
umbral reef
@glossy wharf ow apparently i lick the admins there ass according to zuku
covert linden
Theyre resorting to insulting which is actually against the rules so good for them
vast tulip
I really don't think shibodo is being annoying. at all
unkempt cliff
@elfin forge you complain about people blocking you but ignore everyone telling you to optimise your avatar
rigid crescent
If you're worried aobut being blocked but will stil lhave fun, wha'ts the issue?
umbral oracle
The tradeoff is ultimately yours to make. If your effects require the material and are so important that you'd rather people hide your avatar then that's your choice. Also you might be unwilling to spend time to fix it and for an avatar you alone will use that might also be a fine tradeoff. Your Time is not free. But people will choose to hide it
elfin forge
omg you still dont' get it
vast tulip
Agreed, 7
elfin forge
how can you be so dumb i sweaaaar
umbral reef
Its amazing how everyone but one person is agasint the idea of this system
unkempt cliff
i do get it tho
elfin forge
no
covert linden
They just wanna be clapped
unkempt cliff
you're being selfish and want a really badly optimised but 'wow cool and beautiful!!' avatar
covert linden
Thats why theyre resorting to insults
vast tulip
Zuku, please back off the insults, you can have a discussion without them. Everyone else is
elfin forge
you don't, you think i don't wanna optimize my avatars because i want to give colliders
unkempt cliff
wat
covert linden
People arent dumb just because they disagree with what you say
Besides, oclac and Mic are mains of this chat, Never seen them wrong before so do you really think it's wise to go against the two of them? Clearly they must have some point
queen mango
vocal shard
XD
queen mango
Dude, man.. you really need to get laid or something
unkempt cliff
i'm saying you should optimise your avatar because you could mess up other people's performance, even if you're just making your avatar """beautiful"""
elfin forge
God i have a headache
unkempt cliff
why the fuck
are you still greentexting honestly
umbral reef
@covert linden With this there is no right and wrong though- Its all opinions.
Its more about giving proper arguments and backing claims up instead
rigid crescent
Why don't you want to optimize then?
unkempt cliff
yes
umbral reef
And that is why Mic and i often are 'right' because we atleast try to do that as much as we can within this chat
covert linden
Fair point
elfin forge
Because i want it to move and collide normally which is not possible the way u do it
covert linden
Whenever you, mic, Jamie, or sai says something im just instantly like yeeep thats right xD
mystic oasis
I don't mind if people use unoptimised stuff in private worlds, at that stage it's something among friends. It'd be nice to see optimised stuff in public worlds though.
vocal shard
also someone not being wrong alot doesnt make everything they say right
rigid crescent
OK, so you want to use colliders...
umbral oracle
Wrong is a matter of opinion. I still disagree with mic about the nature of the trust rank being important, because custom shaders are kind of essential
rigid crescent
but you just said " you think i don't wanna optimize my avatars because i want to give colliders"
unkempt cliff
oh yeah the trust stuff is a bit eh
rigid crescent
So which is true? you want to move and collide noramlly or you don't want colliders?
unkempt cliff
i have my trust set to none and just hide people who lag me
mystic oasis
Trusted users normally have the least optimised avatars from my experience 
umbral oracle
I see both sides of the discussions. I think that's important.everything is a tradeoff
elfin forge
Jesus walking my dog while keeping up with this chat is harf
unkempt cliff
lol yep @mystic oasis
umbral reef
@vocal shard It does mean you can trust them easier- Never should accept anything anyon says as instant fact without proof to back up there claims ofcours.
But id be more willingly to accept a simple claim from someone who has proven they know there stuff
elfin forge
I never said i dont want them
umbral reef
Else what is the point of labeling someone an expert and getting them on TV for example
elfin forge
I said ppl exgerate when they say they're lagging or when they say its unoptimied
mystic oasis
How do you know that?
unkempt cliff
but what if they're not? what if they're genuinely getting really low fps because of you
elfin forge
I have an avtar with no colliders but has bunch of different materials
unkempt cliff
saying that really does just make you look selfish
elfin cloak
hallo there
because i have sensitive eye's on bright colors
is there a way to change unity gui interface
like on this link
https://github.com/zios/unity-themes
but working one because when i install it on my free version of unity
everything goes ok until i try to upload my avatar to vrchat
thanks
elfin forge
Oh my head
vast tulip
How many materials, @elfin forge ?
elfin forge
10
umbral reef
@elfin cloak Highly suggest you look into getting F.Lux instead of geting themes for every program
rigid crescent
9 or 10 don't put you at Poor or very poor
elfin forge
Im talkin abour another avatwr
unkempt cliff
hmmmm
elfin forge
Well it ppears at poor idfk ask devs
vast tulip
Yeah, you did, but, I'm pretty sure that falls into the "good" range? I think that's 10 or less
umbral oracle
@elfin cloak I heard the paid version has the option to change the interface. I assume the unity devs probably intentionally will restrict such customization from the free version. But f.lux is solid software so that's a good idea
vast tulip
No, i have 6 and I'm good
rigid crescent
mystic oasis
You come out saying people are exaggerating over lag due to unoptimised avatars, do you have anything to prove that's the case?
elfin forge
As said i dunno aak devs
elfin cloak
@umbral reef what is F.Lux ?
unkempt cliff
clearly not
rigid crescent
You're either mistaken or you're lying.
umbral oracle
It will change the color tint of your whole screen. Like red tint at night
But quite customizable
rigid crescent
without proof I'll go with lying. I guess there's a chance it's wrong, but typically the nubmer is just off not 9 and still Red
vast tulip
Ok so 8 or less is good. I'm pretty sure you can get to 8 on anything really. Atlas things and use masks
umbral reef
@elfin cloak quickly explained
It gives your screen a yellow glow what makes it a LOT easier to look at.
Just google it, i use it for all my pc's and laptops and i cant work without it anymore
elfin forge
7 if they hide it idm
vocal shard
but thats like your opinion and what you personally would do oclac, also labeling someone as expert and putting them on tv is just for views and money and alot of them will still be wrong about things
elfin forge
But if thet block me then its annoying
vast tulip
You know what's really annoying? Low fps
umbral oracle
I see, that's a valid complaint @elfin forge the fact that hide avatar isn't visible in the social menu is rather annoying
mystic oasis
Would you have wanted to get to know the person that blocked you?
rigid crescent
I mean it says 8 mats = very good and 16 = medium
elfin cloak
@umbral reef
ok
i will
ty
vast tulip
Btw, mic, in using snails shader for my nails. Is that what you're using?
mystic oasis
I usually take it as an incompatibility if someone blocks someone else. They're not into whatever you're doing.
weak lantern
Still in login loop
rigid crescent
nah I use my friend Synergiance's shader, it's got a rainbow effect
weak lantern
about 25min now
vast tulip
Ah ok
elfin forge
@vast tulip if he can't share that just use the rainbow shader
rigid crescent
I have it on hair, nails, and eyes
Oh i can if you want, it's a fun shader
sphere maps and stuff like that
weak lantern
Where is the fix? or Roll back theupdate?
vast tulip
I'm not sure what you mean. I just use snail shader on my nails and eye lashes. Who is sharing what?
glossy wharf
@weak lantern #vrchat-support
umbral oracle
The game has been running fine since the update last week so I don't think that would help
weak lantern
Does nothing
glossy wharf
Have you written an email?
weak lantern
I have and nothing
vast tulip
@weak lantern it's a known issue and is being worked on
glossy wharf
Wait for an answer.
elfin forge
@unkempt cliff also lemme just say, you're beeing cocky af just cuz most ppl are with you on this, you wouldn't act like that if most ppl were saying you're wrong
weak lantern
Sead that half a month ago
elfin forge
but anyway
elfin forge
no, and lemme be clear, i don't hate anyone in here. This game gave me everything, no joke everything
glossy wharf
Then dont act like an idiot and stop talking about this topic
umbral reef
You dont hate me?
weak lantern
Might just leave the login go and goto bed
elfin cloak
omg
you save'd me with that app thanks allot 😂
the paid version of unity can screw up now 😎
✌🏻
elfin forge
@glossy wharf my issue is that all these special ppl i met, are going to go away from this game, if it gets worse
mystic oasis
It sounds like the issue is that you don't like being blocked more than anything
glossy wharf
elfin forge
@mystic oasis what's the point on blocking when you can simply hide?
unkempt cliff
they're leaving cause they dont wanna optimise their avatar
elfin forge
the avatar itself is optimized most of the times
glossy wharf
All im saying is, i have yet to be blocked cause of my performance ranking, most people dont care. Youre probably just obnoxious if they resort to instantly blocking you.
unkempt cliff
exactly
glossy wharf
And the way you are acting in here i can fully understand the decision to block you.
vast tulip
Most people hide avatars. Never heard of people being fully blocked for a bad Avatar
umbral reef
But for real- Zuku you dont hate me?
mystic oasis
Get to know people with a nice optimised avatar, then use an unoptimised one when you know they're alright with it
elfin forge
fun fact: i never did a cancer animation other then one for halloween which actually had a theme and was moderatly made
mystic oasis
It's like casual clothes Vs formal clothes
elfin forge
plus i always ask around before doing an animation
cold talon
having optimized avatars 
umbral oracle
I can see clicking block even if by mistake especially if the avatar is spammy. I will try to avoid it but I might do it from a brainfart and never realize what happened
So it's possible someone didn't know about hide avatar and was used to hitting block
glossy wharf
Fun fact, animations are not the only thing people block for, its also for annoying people and obnoxious people.
elfin forge
@umbral reef no, as i said, i love this game, but i don't want ppl to go away form it because everybody blockes em because of a shader they use or a weapon they have or i dunno
umbral oracle
Well for that mute often does the job
mystic oasis
Yeah, I don't like the grey robot thing 
umbral reef
Your first few statements directly about me gave me a TOTAL different idea but owkay then
elfin forge
@glossy wharf m8 ppl don't even hear me when i talk
cold talon
wdym grey bot is best waifi
umbral oracle
Hahaha
cold talon
glossy wharf
Yeah cause they got u blocked
elfin forge
@umbral reef i was prolly annoyed and tired
mystic oasis
It has no face though 
elfin forge
nope, it's cuz i'm quiet and reserved person when i have to talk with someone knew
new*
mystic oasis
Unity-chan is best waifu
umbral oracle
Unity chan is best waifu.
elfin forge
so i just talk with my animations instead
elfin cloak
agree
cold talon
i even went as far as making my own custom graybot https://imgur.com/taI78CL
its beautiful
elfin forge
and i never did a crasher (heck i don't even know how to make one even tho i lied about knowing multiple times)
mystic oasis
Damn, embracing the greybot life
umbral oracle
Let's make greybot the new nikkey
rigid crescent
Optimization is simple, the people opposing it are part of the problem with the game.
elfin forge
@rigid crescent i know its simple, i know it is
vocal shard
Ah, Unity chan, the memories
mystic oasis
The greybot would definitely confuse me at first, I'd think the game was broken
cold talon
if yall want i can send the model files for custom graybots 
elfin forge
it's so easy, that it's boring
elfin cloak
i don't trust in photo mirage
umbral oracle
Performance tradeoffs are literally one of the hardest topics in all of computing. You want fast and high quality. Sometimes you can't get both, or not the way you want. Then a debate ensues: some like fast, some like quality.
elfin forge
you can't do anything special with it other then maybe a hair with different shader or recolor
rigid crescent
It's a two way street. We're both at fault.
cold talon
ouch 7
rigid crescent
the Devs for not pushing for optimization MUCH sooner (like summer, maybe earlier) and people opposing it because they disagree with actual facts and numbers.
elfin forge
see that's true, but guess what, none of the ppl that are mad at the game for this system ever had those issues
cold talon
i dont wanna optimize, i need my point light
vocal shard
Login is Fixed, But the Infinite loading screen is still a problem.
umbral oracle
Like mic says the optimization game literally comes down to numbers. For 90fps you have 11ms to render both eyes and handle networking overhead, physics, ik, audio and everything else. That leaves 5ms per eye or less
cold talon
cant reach this --> 
vast tulip
@umbral oracle you can't cheat fast but you can cheat quality. That's why players should all work to get their avatars optimized. There are limitless possibilities on how to cheat quality to make something appear really good but still be fast
woven steppe
sup
mystic oasis
I like fancy avatars, but the optimisation system is a step in the right direction for performance. Even if it makes a few people a little more conscious of avatar optimisation.
elfin forge
@mystic oasis and i agree, but some things are just exagerated
woven steppe
Is this the topic on the menu again?
mystic oasis
I see it as a game, how can I make it look good while keeping it in the recommended guidelines
elfin forge
like the 3 colliders
woven steppe
I thought we were over this after the first 24 hours...
rigid crescent
ACH it's a massive issue
cold talon
nah its on the people blacking and just switched to optimization
rigid crescent
It's come up every singel day
umbral oracle
True, though there are times I accept low framerate for a unique experience as I don't get motion sick myself, I'd be fine keeping those experiences to be opt in or private worlds
elfin forge
oh yeah also @vast tulip @civic grail @mystic oasis when i said ppl are stupid, i mean the ones that resort to block, like it happend to me already in a bunch of places. like, why not just hide it?
mystic oasis
The issue isn't the colliders themselves, it's the amount of bones that they can potentially interact with at once
elfin forge
if you have issues with your eyes or frames, hide it
but don't block the person
that's what most ppl is mad about
tbh we need a system like in mmd
cuz not only will the colliders look better, but they will also not be as laggy
rigid crescent
That's part of the problem GJ. Why punish people for Colliders when TRansforms makes more sense? That's why we've wanted a weighted rank system instead of an all or nothing system
glossy wharf
Which is being worked on btw
elfin forge
is it now
rigid crescent
Yeah, just pointing out that the issue isn't solely with colliders.
It most likely always was, they just wanted to rush this out
elfin forge
show me proof that it's beeing worked on then
mystic oasis
You know those simulations where you see a ball running through a bunch of bristles? That kind of thing is crazy expensive
elfin forge
cuz i didn't see anything about it
and i'm actually interested in seeing how they're gonna make it
glossy wharf
Youre gonna have to take my word for it.
vast tulip
I'm actually very sure most avatar scores will get worse with a weighted system. Then you can't sit at the fence between good and medium
elfin forge
see that's the issue, if you can't trust me for what i say, how am i able to trust you?
glossy wharf
I mean i dont give a fuck if you believe me or not
elfin forge
i'd love it if it were true, but you're not sure about it yourself
glossy wharf
I am sure about it myself.
rigid crescent
Same
vast tulip
Avatars are probably worse then their ranks show, for the most part
elfin forge
it's the opposite but ok
vocal shard
xd
zinc badger
🙏👋WHATS GOOD BOIS
glossy wharf
I have heard it from people that i trust and that have direct contact to the devs, being in closed betas and co.
So idc wha you think tbh
woven steppe
I just want a live rank update system (though I think that'd actually make performance worse)
elfin forge
@glossy wharf why not say that from the beginning then
instead of beeing an ass about it
mystic oasis
I'm sure there's probably some 'good' ranked avatar out there that can crash you in some way, no system is flawless
zinc badger
True
glossy wharf
I totally see why people block you
elfin forge
@mystic oasis m8 i can have a 1 poly avatar and crash you
woven steppe
hey... don't tell people what to do
elfin forge
that's a lie but ok
zinc badger
Ye
elfin forge
oh yeah i guess that's true
woven steppe
Just look unimportant
zinc badger
They fly up to u and use the point emote and poof
elfin forge
also dont' worry @zinc badger ppl like him will understand once they lose everything that makes them act strong
zinc badger
Ye
earnest harbor
LOL
zinc badger
Was a wierd flex by mama sai tho
velvet quarry
I'd rather not have to keep bringing this rule up
19. For small disputes between individuals, please take it to a private chat and do not involve others in it.
elfin forge
they probably never dealt with a real asshole becuse they block everyone they see
earnest harbor
No, people who do it are on alts and don't care about getting banned
zinc badger
Moving on to a new topic how was your crhistmas
elfin forge
@earnest harbor even if they're not on alts they easly evade ban
earnest harbor
Some of them actually are on their second, third or 40th ban
mystic oasis
Maybe the outcome of the system will be a Unity-chan only VRChat 
elfin forge
which will mean game dead
earnest harbor
They just have alts "grinding" ranks so they can just hop to the next account..
mystic oasis
Yo, don't bully Unity-chan 
cold talon
:^(
elfin forge
also @velvet quarry don't bother you know it'll happen and i'm pretty sure they're not gonna get in a private chat as they think it'll be "worthless"
or smth like that
woven steppe
To be honest I've met like... 2 people within my friends and friend groups who actually gave a toss about the system...
The fact of the matter is... the great majority of the population of VRC has no idea about the system, let alone avatar making/optimization.
This is why I've always wanted an inbuilt tutorial about these things
zinc badger
I mean i enjoy being a nanachi it would make me sad if it became unity chan only
earnest harbor
Majority don't care, as it's not fixing the "problen"
velvet quarry
Essentially, keep arguments civil or I'll just have to get rid of both parties involved.
elfin forge
have fun keeping that up with the updates your upper ups are putting out afro
earnest harbor
The only reason the avatar rank system even came around was because of streamers
glossy wharf
high shell
hello
elfin forge
wait i know rea?
earnest harbor
That and event hosters, which honestly the event hosters should get it
vast tulip
Believe it or not, most people are pretty good at staying civil during a discussion
mystic oasis
Are Pepe emotes not allowed?
zinc badger
Life didnt have to be this way
woven steppe
no frogs
queen mango
Yea.. Pepe isn't allowed in any part of this Discord
woven steppe
use kermit emotes instead
rigid crescent
sadkermit
queen mango
mystic oasis
Ah right, sorry 
woven steppe
Kermits are rare nowadays...
elfin forge
THAT'S A LIE
woven steppe
Quality Kermit voice impressions tho
woven steppe
what's a snowflake?
queen mango
There are some "snowflakes".. in this server..
rigid crescent
A lot of people, mods included, disagree. It's most likely one person's rule that everyone is forced to follow
earnest harbor
Something something American presidential election where Hillary said pepe was a racist meme
rigid crescent
and gives you a bit of insight to the mentality of people higher up in VRC lol
I think that's the only stupid thing that's banned. maybe moon man?
glossy wharf
Anything thats associated with hate speech
queen mango
glossy wharf
Is banned
woven steppe
🅱 anned
elfin forge
so a weidly drawn frog is hate ok
queen mango
That includes swastikas, too.
stiff rose
PepeHands
glossy wharf
It is widely associated with hate speech in the us so just live with it.
queen mango
Especially one from the N---s
earnest harbor
Or whatever meme the devs don't like honestly, which is odd since pepe is a very popular meme with twitch community
rigid crescent
Don't question it, you don't want to stoop to their mentality
glossy wharf
Yeah theres no sense behind it
stiff rose
We should all start a movement and send PepeHands Pog
elfin forge
i don't even have them so don't worry you don't have to be an even bigger ass about it
glossy wharf
Are you okay there?
umbral reef
@stiff rose youd just get clapped
stiff rose
Pog
rigid crescent
immediate clap
woven steppe
elfin forge
i'm perfectly fine here, very nice and cozy how about yourself?
glossy wharf
I was comfy until someone decided to call me an ass on everything i say, apart from that im good
stiff rose
youre an ass tho.
woven steppe
They're gloves...
elfin forge
aha i see, kinda like how you've been saying i'm selfish this entire time? weird tho hmm, how come i'm still cozy over here?
woven steppe
you don't know if there's hands in there
stiff rose
PepeHands this chat
glossy wharf
When did i say ur selfish?
rigid crescent
like that anita sarkeesian avatar floating around, i love that one
queen mango
elfin forge
togheter with everyone while we were having that "conversation" before
glossy wharf
I didnt say that a single time
earnest harbor
glossy wharf
But go ahead.
queen mango
I feel like the brief server disconnect just brought in some not-so-nice people here
elfin forge
it's pretty easy to forget about it when you're the majority
vocal shard
Hmmmmm
stiff rose
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepe_the_Frog who ever hates pepe read this.
elfin forge
with the*
glossy wharf
Or ur just putting words in my mouth