vrchat-general-2

[rigid crescent]

I'd sign an autograph but the snail pen would make my bounds too big and I'd be Very Poor instead of Poor

[umbral oracle]

Also a good way to find fun new worlds at the same time

[dark narwhal]

Ya The Mic Sounders is like totally my best friend

[vocal shard]

:( it's ok

[zinc solar]

My name came from Kingdom hearts, people love me because of my avatars and voice. Apparently I sound like someone named "Critical"

[pliant prawn]

cursed snail finger

[vocal shard]

Ah yeah, you do indeed sound like Critical

[zinc solar]

:y

Had to look it up before, Critikal or penguinz0.

[rigid crescent]

sorry Doki, no orbiting

[tidal aspen]

moist

[rigid crescent]

lol

[queen mango]

Well, my name comes from a French word

[dark narwhal]

Awe

[vast tulip]

Cursed ?

[queen mango]

But it also works as a child's name

So uh...

[long venture]

I know famous people but they have distanced themselves

so they are practically an ornament in my friend list

[queen mango]

Oof..

[rigid crescent]

I hate knowing people that are like "known" or popular because they all have these orbiters that literally just wanna be around because it makes them feel cool lol

[long venture]

well sorry if I don't have 100 twitch viewers so we can't be friends

[rigid crescent]

meanwhile im just trying to hang out with my friend

[queen mango]

Damn.. ego is big with them, yes?

[dark narwhal]

Im gonna go get famous and then randomly start streamimg roblox to throw them off

[umbral oracle]

Ya it's complicated to deal with when you have legends. Gotta carve your own path in the world too

[long venture]

if you offend one
They will all gang up on you

[umbral oracle]

(With no veteran status it puts more people on equal footing)

[rigid crescent]

lol those are called orbiters

[zinc solar]

Lmao, speaking of 'gang up' VRchat "Nice guys" or "White knights" are soooo hilarious xD

[limber anvil]

since i only know about, like, 2 vrchat streamers, idk who would even be popular

[safe prism]

fuckboys and nice guys are my favorite to mess with

[queen mango]

Oof.. Their names are contrary of their behavior as far as human nature goes

[vocal shard]

Yikes

[limber anvil]

well i mean

[umbral oracle]

Nice Guys? Is this like the vrchat equivalent of the Good Guys?

[dark narwhal]

Lel someone knew to vrc and streaming asked me if i wanted to plug anything about my avstar creation skills and im like "uhh i kinda just make stuff"

[limber anvil]

white knight

[zinc solar]

Guys defending anything with a female voice to claim as their own, while poorly embellishing a girls appearance based on their voice.

[safe prism]

just yell at them and call them useless and you're in for fun

[queen mango]

I do know of one streamer, a little well-known around here.

[limber anvil]

nvm i wont go further into that

[dark narwhal]

If i think it is loli it must be loli

[long venture]

I find it funny how people have no guts to speak up so they blend in with the crowd

not wanting to be targeted

[safe prism]

(takes being a girl first tho i guess idk)

[limber anvil]

all i know about is Bonfire and Jameskii

[queen mango]

...I think his name goes by ReeseSkater

[tidal aspen]

orbiters aw hell yeah

[queen mango]

Btw, there's always a bigger fish out there..

[dark narwhal]

I orbit the flat earth

[long venture]

I hope that fish eats my evil twin

[limber anvil]

[dark narwhal]

Bigger than blob fish?

[queen mango]

Hopefully so.. 🦈

[timid musk]

Hey I only defend a girl if she needs it. Most of you got it yourselves, and I just sit back as I watch you tear the fuk boys a new one. If that's white knighting I apologize

[umbral oracle]

And always a smaller one. There's the opportunity to find someone you enjoy being around and can orbit but be friends with at the same time

[queen mango]

That's probably spectating, I suppose

[limber anvil]

What about just calling out someone on their shit and leaving

[queen mango]

They're gonna track ye down

[dark narwhal]

Lol i dont follow anyone on vrc Im not stupid enough to think im worth less than anyone else there

[umbral oracle]

If you're going to speak up and have an opinion you'd better be ready to defend it.

[vocal shard]

Why do people enjoy being orbiters again?

[long venture]

fame

[queen mango]

What are orbiters, anyways?

[limber anvil]

so they can be on the steam/video

[long venture]

they Wana feel like. a special snowflake

[limber anvil]

and say they were on steam/video

[vocal shard]

But why? Can't they just make their own path?

[umbral oracle]

Well I know one reason. The legends have genuinely cool stuff they show now and again. I live for the special effects from another world I could never imagine

[long venture]

the people on his community is worst

they never play vrchat unless he streams

[limber anvil]

but tbh some of the wacky antics some streamers do kind of makes people go "i want to join in on that"

[dark narwhal]

Id hang out with a streaner if he was cool

[timid musk]

I rarely pop in around big people, sometimes Ikrium but that's because I'm friends with a lot of his friends.

[long venture]

if showing off your particles and claiming it to be one of a kind is cool then yes sure

[vocal shard]

Hmmm, I often get out of the way of streamers because I feel like a burden being in the video tbh

[timid musk]

Same

[limber anvil]

tbh i probably wouldnt notice if a steamer was there even if they were screaming at me that they were streaming tho

[vocal shard]

Yeah Doki Doki is pretty cool

[long venture]

I like how once he was in unity

he didn't know how it worked so ranted to the stream saying

Omg this stupid unity making me look like I'm dumb

[limber anvil]

given my name

[dark narwhal]

Cool like a hot pocket....oh wait

[vocal shard]

Lmao

[dark narwhal]

Im prefrozen boi s

[long venture]

aight Leme just turn up my mic

and just walk towards this crowd

OH HEY THANK YOU FOR THE FOLLOW

[queen mango]

[dark narwhal]

Id like to say that in front of famous streamers

[queen mango]

Just one question... did they mute you?

[dark narwhal]

I have many questions

[long venture]

I was literally in a room and this desktop user kept saying in a loud uncaring voice

thank you for the follow

[dark narwhal]

Thx for the 200 dollar donation on a monotone voice

[vocal shard]

XD

[queen mango]

I shoulda drank some wine seeing this convo

I had a glass last night, and I felt kinda lightweight.

[long venture]

what's worst is that people like my evil twin is growing and gaining more followers

[rigid crescent]

lol in b4 teenage alcoholism

[long venture]

being treated like a saint
a God in their discord while their followers don't know what they did here

[queen mango]

Not that they would know any better since their "God" can twist their words

[long venture]

a sever owner that says it's alright to break a rule

[opaque hawk]

I don’t want to know what happened

I’m guessing drama just went down

[vocal shard]

I'd rather join a server than making my own

[long venture]

because they are too hecking lazy to edit the topic or rules

[rigid crescent]

why do you keep talking about this

why cant you just drop it and move on with your life?....It's liek you want the attention dude

[queen mango]

[long venture]

I wish I could move on
it's not as simple

[rigid crescent]

like the topic changes, then it immediately goes back to your ordeal

It really is. Block toxic people. Leave toxic communities. Don't tolerate harassment. Done.

[covert linden]

^

[vocal shard]

That's true

[rigid crescent]

It's actually extremely easy.

[covert linden]

I think they just enjoy toxic people so they can talk about it

[queen mango]

Incident probably left a bad mark on her, name and server kept reminding her of it

Not to mention people there

It ain't easy for her

[hallow thistle]

I might've asked this a thousand of times, but you get in trouble with ur avatar if you modify the sdk right? I won't get in trouble if my avatar status is poor or very poor?

[rigid crescent]

Correct.

[queen mango]

Yea.. SDK mods are a no-no

[rigid crescent]

Poor, Very Poor, doesn't matter unless it's "maliciously unoptimized" which would be intentionally causing lag through shader or particle shenanigans and the like.

[hallow thistle]

yeah

[vocal shard]

Like say 200K Polygons

But who would ever

[limber anvil]

jesus

[queen mango]

Hmm?

[rigid crescent]

not that they take down worlds with avatars over 70klol

[hallow thistle]

hint hint

[covert linden]

Youd be suprised some peope have 200k poly avatars

[vocal shard]

What?

[long venture]

it's just that the people here are the only sane ones that will understand
not crazy lunatics brainwashed

[queen mango]

I've seen worse, Ash

[vocal shard]

Never seen one before

[covert linden]

Ive never seen one but ive been told about it by Jamie

[limber anvil]

the reason why they had a hard limit at 20k was something about intel graphics cards only able to go to 20k

[queen mango]

That's Integrated Graphics for ye

[vocal shard]

So i guess people with nasa level computers use those avatars then

[queen mango]

Also, gib some hugs for Shana. She's been through tuff times.

[covert linden]

Nah polygon doesnt do much to performance i was told

[queen mango]

If anything.. Dynbones, mats, and anims drain on the CPU

[long venture]

[limber anvil]

i remember a guy had an earth avatar (that was gigantic as all hell) had well over 100k polygons and it had little to no performance impact

its just the fact of ppl with integrated graphics would crash

and they want to keep the game to have anyone pretty much be able to play

[languid beacon]

Is there a material count cap where the sdk will prevent upload?

[torn nebula]

yeah polygons are mostly going to impact the GPU, but in practice with vrchat it's often the CPU that's the issue so GPU load becomes more of a secondary issue

[rigid crescent]

Nope, nothing is prevented from upload yet.

[torn nebula]

unless you have some really expensive vertex shader or something I guess

[languid beacon]

😐 i just opened up a mmd model with 140 materials

[limber anvil]

oof

[languid beacon]

one i've seen in game a ton but never inspected

[vocal shard]

Whoa

[languid beacon]

dear god i hope they're atlassed

[queen mango]

140 mats

[vocal shard]

What model contains that much?

[queen mango]

Can be anything

[languid beacon]

Ink Sans, some undertale thing

[long venture]

sometimes badly made custom models can have like 20 materials

[vocal shard]

Oof

[languid beacon]

i mean they're not for VR chat, so it's not fair to call them poor

[limber anvil]

just remember, less materials = better performance

[languid beacon]

Yep

[queen mango]

Someday they should add GPU materials or something

[rigid crescent]

I mean 140 materials is poor even for MMD because it's extremely unorganized

[vocal shard]

And oh, Adeon, fancy seeing you here

[long venture]

in avatars case less of anything equal better performance

[languid beacon]

I mostly just convert MMD to FBX for a friend, and they do all the unity stuff. i'm fightning them tooth and nail they're mad whenever i give them the fbx atlassed

[tidal aspen]

1 material per color 🤢

[torn nebula]

@queen mango what do you mean by 'gpu materials'?

[tidal aspen]

do you mean instanced materials?

[rigid crescent]

not much problem with optimization since it's all rendered, but i can't imagine organizing that

[queen mango]

Dunno.. not familiar with Unity-related things

[tidal aspen]

I don't think they work for skinned meshes

[queen mango]

[long venture]

someone needs to invent a gpu particle system for unity

[tidal aspen]

2018 has it

[limber anvil]

idk if i should get an avatar tho of the

[vast tulip]

Remember, 1 material on transparent or cutout is worse then 3-4 materials doing everything properly

[limber anvil]

Batter or Faust

[long venture]

for now the gpu particles we use requires cameras

[tidal aspen]

it's called the visual effect graph though

[rigid crescent]

apparently instanced materials false flag the Avatar Ranking System, so don't bother trying there

[languid beacon]

i mean

[rigid crescent]

You'll show up as being Poor/Very Poor still

[languid beacon]

I only care about performence, if something is good for perofrmence but makes the ranking system hate me, i'm still going to do it.

[torn nebula]

@queen mango the reason you want to atlas is because the way the game tells the GPU what to do is it basically sets up a bunch of parameters (e.g. which material to use, which list of vertices to render, etc) and then says "go!" (a "drawcall"). The act of issuing a drawcall is expensive. Atlassing takes a bunch of different textures and squishes them into one, so you can issue a single drawcall to render a bunch of different things that look like separate parts

[tidal aspen]

you technically don't need cameras for GPU particles if you just have the particles move to specific locations

[limber anvil]

instanced materials?

[dark narwhal]

Is it wrong to report all my friends for having poorly optimized avatars

[languid beacon]

yes

[pliant prawn]

Yes

[rigid crescent]

Since it's not reportable, yes

[tidal aspen]

drawcalls aren't expensive per say but they add up

[torn nebula]

@queen mango now, the process of performing the atlassing is very expensive, which is why the game doesn't do it in realtime. But you can do it when making the avatar since it doesn't matter if it takes a couple seconds.

[languid beacon]

You are wasting dev time

on something that isn't against the rules

[torn nebula]

@tidal aspen yeah, everything is additive.

[dark narwhal]

What do you mean not reportable?

[languid beacon]

It is not against the rules to wear a poorly optimized avatar.

[dark narwhal]

Its an option

[rigid crescent]

Poorly optimized vs maliciously unoptimized are different

[torn nebula]

a single poorly optimized avatar in a world isn't going to be an issue, unless it's really really bad

30 of them, now that's another question

[dark narwhal]

Single?

[long venture]

I think the exclamation mark will be a badge for everyone to wear proudly

[dark narwhal]

U een in a public?

[tidal aspen]

hey guys here's my new avatar with a fur shader and a dynamic bone for each strand of hair

[pliant prawn]

Nice lemme see

[rigid crescent]

That's why I wear my unoptimized avatar when im in a room with a few friends. smallscale there's no real performance hit

[limber anvil]

i remember seeing an avatar that would avtually zoom in on their face when they do a certain emote

[long venture]

actually I do that for each strand of hair

totalling to 6
for a realistic gravity

[limber anvil]

and flash the screen with random colors

[dark narwhal]

Lel i thought there was a unoptimized avatar report option tho. Ill have to look agsin

[torn nebula]

@limber anvil that shit isn't funny in VR 😐

[limber anvil]

it wasnt

i asked them to stop that emote tho and they did

[rigid crescent]

it's really annoying lol that's the kind of thing that's reportable

[limber anvil]

they only really did particle spam ones after that

[tidal aspen]

you can report worlds if they have very poorly optimized avatars

[long venture]

I reported and empty world with a super malicious avatar but it's still there

Maybe I'll need to make a YouTube video to submit to moderators

[rigid crescent]

https://puu.sh/CkOal/f76ef01e01.png Oh found my screenshot. Instanced materials make the system think there's a gajillion meshes lol

[limber anvil]

and personally, i dont mind particle spam

[dark narwhal]

Im gonna report every geko

[limber anvil]

@long venture what was wrong with that avatar?

[queen mango]

[dark narwhal]

Ill be busy for the next year

[tidal aspen]

it's just a bunch of unity cubes which is why it's counting 17

[rigid crescent]

I just report the ones obviously breaking public world avatar rules. i dont care if it's poor/very poor as long as it "passes perf check"

[torn nebula]

@limber anvil particle spam sort of depends on the situation. if you're in a public world where everyone is just messing around, sure, whatever. if you're having a nice conversation and someone runs up and starts blaring music and spamming particles, that's not so great

[dark narwhal]

The geko crashed my loli puppet...big rip

[limber anvil]

understandable

[torn nebula]

but messing around with perspective can cause serious VR sickness

[long venture]

a standard shader man avatar
with super loud gestures

[limber anvil]

wait

did it look like the 😅 emoji?

or had that plastered all over it

[long venture]

nah it was more like a simple male avatr

[limber anvil]

ah

[dark narwhal]

Simple..like all males 👀

--hides inner loli--

[limber anvil]

[long venture]

I think reporting won't work unless many people do it

so I'm better off recording a video and sending email

[dark narwhal]

I need a report all button

[limber anvil]

i can see that kind of button getting misused

by a lot of people

[dark narwhal]

Just get them all with one go

Then i can just play never have i ever by myself

[long venture]

report all for invading my safe space

[torn nebula]

if only vrchat recorded a log of everything that happened - avatars, animations, movement, voice, etc - that could be submitted as part of the report

[dark narwhal]

If only i had a personal Tupper to carry around on a shoulder cam chair

[long venture]

maybe turn on your shadow play

[torn nebula]

that seems like it'd be annoying to trigger from VR

and/or too slow to capture before it's overwritten

[long venture]

I always set mine to 3minute recording so I can click save

[torn nebula]

also it'll use precious, precious GPU resources lol

I'm thinking more a network-level dump

[long venture]

it dosent affect my frame rates that much
just maybe 5fps

[torn nebula]

since that should be something that can be generated very cheaply, and replayed back into another instance of the game engine to re-render everything from any perspective the moderators want to see

[dark narwhal]

It must be done for the people...even the ones im trying to get rid of

[torn nebula]

also allows for moderators to un-hide avatars/un-block people when reviewing the footage

[long venture]

heck just link the avatar ID to the report
and they can see what gestures it did

[torn nebula]

I mean, that works for abusive avatars, but not for other kinds of reportable behavior

[long venture]

yeah but for them to have this let's say
5minites renewing saved logs
for every instance in vrchat

it can be very painful

[dark narwhal]

Can we report for trash waifu

[torn nebula]

I'm thinking this would be attached to reports

potentially automatically

[long venture]

yeah but for this to monitor every instance is very painful for the sever

[torn nebula]

nah, the client could just write it to disk

[long venture]

hmmm

[torn nebula]

need to pair this with a way to authenticate the content of packets of course

EC signatures, etc

[long venture]

then they would have to crypt it
so people can't falsify information to make people get banned

[torn nebula]

sign it, but yes

you kind of want that anyway for other reasons (see my rant about how hard it is to implement friend-only avatars yesterday)

[long venture]

so something like a ever changing signature
so there's almost no way for people to find out?

[torn nebula]

this problem space is pretty well explored actually. with a digital signature, there's a "public key" and "private key". The client with the private key (or the relay server) signs the packet; then anyone with the public key can verify it (but can't make a fake signature)

the complicated bit is making sure you have the right public key

[long venture]

something like those cute little bank
dongers
that changes every 30 second

[torn nebula]

but you only really have to do that when a client joins

[pseudo basalt]

That doesn't sound like a very practical solution

[torn nebula]

nah those bank things are a shared secret design, it doesn't really work for this problem

because your client also needs to verify these incoming packets to make sure the signature is good

@pseudo basalt what about it? Verifying one of these signatures (if using ed25519) takes about 100 microseconds

I guess that's 180ms of cpu time per second for a 60 player instance with 30 fps update rate, so somewhat expensive

[long venture]

I'm thinking for security reasons can we have a 2fa for our accounts

[torn nebula]

there's some mac-based designs that could be used with a trusted relay that would be lighter weight

@long venture not a bad idea but solves a different problem. and would make logging in in VR annoying

[dark narwhal]

just make a 4 digit pin code to all the info...nothing could go wrong

[long venture]

well like most 2fa
once logged it
it won't bug you unless you log out

or something like twitchs remember this computer for 28 days

[torn nebula]

I suppose. Or just log in via steam which has its own 2fa

[long venture]

but then you need vrc account for uploading

[halcyon kestrel]

Im going under

[torn nebula]

yeah for upload access MFA makes total sense

[long venture]

it's just that our names are literally our usernames

Like Twitter
so I kinda feel insecure about my password

[torn nebula]

you can change your display name if you want

but you generally should assume your username is not a secret

[long venture]

what if we can use a different username to login instead of our names itself
hmm

[torn nebula]

you can. however you can only change your display name, you can't change your login name

there's a field for display name changes on the vrc website, you can do it once every three months

so... you'd need to have planned ahead a bit I guess

[long venture]

awww but I can't give up my name in vrc

[torn nebula]

email hello@ and see if they can do something maybe?

[long venture]

what if instead of 2fa

we link our vrchat account to our steam
so they will only allow access if the steam account is correct

So like steam becomes our 2fa for vrchat

[languid beacon]

People are always friending the wrong person when trying to friend me. He must wonder what's going on.

[torn nebula]

you can link to a steam account but it's an "or" not an "and"

[pseudo basalt]

@torn nebula it's not about the signatures, you essentially want demos. It sounds impractical to me because you'd have to record everything and keep a copy of every avatar stored at all times. Performance could be impacted when logging everything and then they need to build a way to replay all this.

[torn nebula]

@pseudo basalt you don't need the actual avatar data, the vrc team already has it (or could arrange to archive them on overwrite)

but yes, it's basically a demo

[pseudo basalt]

Just record a video

[torn nebula]

recording a video is way higher overhead and has to be started before the behavior you want to report

[long venture]

then back to shadow play with a 5minute timer

[pseudo basalt]

They don't even check signatures for attemping to log out

[rancid vessel]

Anyone having issues with avatars loading? I just see a green avatar that is very similar to the blue loading one.

[torn nebula]

@pseudo basalt well... yes, basic stuff like that has to come first lol

[pseudo basalt]

It sounds like way too much work when the game needs development resources elsewhere

[torn nebula]

true enough

[long venture]

but bd
shadow play can be set to constantly record and renew the clip every 5 minutes

So you won't have to worry about missing something

[torn nebula]

yeah, just... overhead, triggering it from VR, etc

it's a decent workaround

but you can't expect everyone to be running that

and so there's going to be a lot of unconfirmable reports

[pseudo basalt]

You can use input emulator to trigger whatever in vr

or use steam vr desktop thing

Also, moderation seems pretty poor in the first place due to lack of mods

And them focusing on other stuff

[torn nebula]

early access ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[pseudo basalt]

I don't expect people to sit there and watch demos just to ban someone in a free game

Because there will be a lot of demos, and a lot of false reports

[torn nebula]

fair, but without the demo you still just have a lot of false reports

and now you don't have any way of really knowing if it's false or not

[pseudo basalt]

With no evidence there is not much you can do but ignore the report

[torn nebula]

other than looking for multiple reports of the same user I guess

[pseudo basalt]

You just want an overcomplicated system that essentially records a video with some meta data

That is unlikely to recreare stuff accurately anyway and pose significant overhead and storage concerns

[covert linden]

Theyd need so much stadd

[torn nebula]

well, records a video with lower overhead and size than it would need as an actual video

[covert linden]

Staff*

[torn nebula]

but they need the mod staff either way for the reports to be actionable

[pseudo basalt]

I just don't think it's practical for a game like this

[torn nebula]

but yes, significant engineering effort that is better spent elsewhere for now

[covert linden]

It isnt practical

Reporting is a very weak thing for many social media platforms and games alike, but blocking exists for a good reason

[pseudo basalt]

They've given other tools to help prevent harrassment

You can just block people

All they need to do is solve crasher issues

[rigid crescent]

I mean if you want something that's realistic, it wouldn't be too hard for them to just sit in publics and scan avatars with the thing htey use for worlds

Imagine how many people you could catch in just an hour or two's time just by letting the thing do its job and just looking for avatars that meet the criteria

[pseudo basalt]

That's basically manual labor

Nobody wants to do that

[torn nebula]

eh, there are better ways to deal with heavyweight avatars if that's your goal - but I never really was talking about that

[pseudo basalt]

But that would be a way more realistic solution

[rigid crescent]

Seems more efficient than getting a report then stalking the person until the mess up

[covert linden]

Mic is genius

[rigid crescent]

You'll simply catch crashers this way, not any other form of rulebreaknig like harassment

[long venture]

I once had this guy just sitting there and being like

No no bad dynamic bones
as he inspected my avatar

[covert linden]

I was in a world ans everyone was very poor xD we were like wow I relate

[pseudo basalt]

Harassment doesn't seem like a big enough issue in comparison when you can selectively block and mute people

[torn nebula]

fair enough

[rigid crescent]

Yeah you're right. It's an issue but it's not one that actively stops people from playing.

[pseudo basalt]

So really crashers should be the main focus

[rigid crescent]

You can't block a crasher most of the time after you've been crashed

But the crashing methods are pretty easy to spot on an avatar if you've got the files, which they do.

[torn nebula]

actually what would be neat is on the server side - looking for sudden disconnects, and seeing which players/avatars are frequently in the same instance as an unexpected disconnect - and then investigating those avatars

[rigid crescent]

I just know I've sent in a report video with someone i know for a fact has and was using a logout client and describing how they use it and then using it

[pseudo basalt]

They'd still be fighting an uphill battle

[rigid crescent]

and i saw them quite a bit for weeks after i reported. i havent seem them recently, but that doesnt mean they were necessarily banned either

i mean a lot of these are kiddies with prefabs, not 1337 hax0rz or whatnot. some barely know what a particle system actually is much less a VPN or hardware ID

[torn nebula]

true, most of the issues should be solved by fixes to the client and/or protocol

[pseudo basalt]

Unless it's an automated system that knows what to inspect to filter out cases it would not be practical

Plus i imagine it would cost significant server resources

If you needed to check 24 avatars every single time someone loses connection

Again, impractical

[rigid crescent]

Yeah, that's why for now the best bet is honestly just casting nets in publics and hoping for the best

[pseudo basalt]

A better solution would be to work towards patching the holes that allow crashers to exist

[rigid crescent]

i mean even in friends+ they can do it

[pseudo basalt]

Crashers are the symptoms, the exploits that allow them to ceash are the issues

[rigid crescent]

Those people will always move on to something new is the thing, it's best to just get rid of the person as well.

[pseudo basalt]

fighting synptoms works but isn't exactly good long term, because what is your goal? to keep banning them until they get tired of making new accounts?

[rigid crescent]

Before it was particles. The system went into place and they moved to mesh crashes and logouts

[torn nebula]

security is hard 😐

[rigid crescent]

Like I said a majority aren't even smart enough to make an avatar by following a basic unity guide, I doubt they'll be spending money on a VPN and learn how to circumvent hardware id bans

[pseudo basalt]

logouts shouldn't even be possible if security was a thing

[rigid crescent]

Also moderation doesn't have to be done by devs, so these things can be done alongside one another

[pseudo basalt]

crashes are a different thing but logouts really shouldn't be possible with proper infrastructure

[rigid crescent]

Like you can grab just about anyone and say "here, go to public worlds on this designated account and follow these instructions"

[pseudo basalt]

I know crashers always move on to new things, but it's more reliable to patch issues at the root of the problem

they will eventually run out of ways to exploit the system

[rigid crescent]

only a dev can develop, obviously, but anyone can moderate.

[pseudo basalt]

Honestly, if crashers weren't a thing public worlds would be a lot less intimidating

[rigid crescent]

Yeah, it's one of the main reasons there's not as many people in them.

[pseudo basalt]

unlike knowing that there's a mod sitting at every corner watching everyone

[umbral oracle]

The issue with vrchat's small team is patching issues like this and firefighting vs developing genuinely new features

They spent a better part of 2018 firefighting and that probably set back many of the priorities

[rigid crescent]

they got better with the trust system since you could just turn off all animations, but until it's taken care of, it's not gonna change

[pseudo basalt]

there aren't even that many common ways to crash someone now

[limber anvil]

the trust system has made a lot of things better

[rigid crescent]

The "benefit" to being a crasher is also just the fact no one is afraid to be banned because it seems to happen so infrequently.

[pseudo basalt]

the easiest ones were patched and the crashers were thinned out a bit

[umbral oracle]

Patching the game to be 100% uncrashable would be nice but it might not be an optimal use of resources and something like vrchat needs to move fast to stay ahead of the curve

[queen mango]

But it ain't enough.. they'll come back someday

[umbral oracle]

So there is keeping things at "good enough"

[pseudo basalt]

vrchat is not even close to being ahead of the curve

2017 brought it to being acceptable

[limber anvil]

if a game allows fully customizable content the way VRchat does, ways to crash the game will always be there

[umbral oracle]

Actual security exploits are another matter. But crashes / denial of service are incredibly hard to fix completely and low risk user wise

[pseudo basalt]

but people not playing the game is an issue

[limber anvil]

(hell someone found out how to crash Mario Maker)

[rigid crescent]

Banning is absolutely enough to keep a lot of people out. i've met so many crashers that are just oblivious to anything computer related.

[queen mango]

[rigid crescent]

all they know is prefab=crash

[umbral oracle]

@pseudo basalt maybe not ahead of the curve in every respect but I have yet to see a platform with both the userbase and community and also the customizability of vrchat as a platform

[limber anvil]

aka script kiddies

[rigid crescent]

or they follow the instructions to a guide to do it without knowing how it actually works

[pseudo basalt]

vrchat is safe for now in that regard

but won't be forever

[rigid crescent]

competition is important anyway, it helps things improve

[pseudo basalt]

they need to focus on new features to attract new users as much as reraining existing ones

[limber anvil]

as well as they may need a better revenue model

[pseudo basalt]

and scaring people into private worlds isn't exactly helpful to attract new players

[torn nebula]

@limber anvil I think you mean: they may need a revenue model

[pseudo basalt]

neither it is to retain existing ones

[limber anvil]

well they "do" but its, like t-shirts and stuff

[pseudo basalt]

if a better platform comes up, people will jump ship immediately

[umbral oracle]

Competition is usually good for the industry as a whole but some anticompetitive competition can be toxic. I'm terrified of facebook entering the game and using their might to kill the indies at the expense of all of us

[limber anvil]

and there is another platform that just came up that is showing promise

[rigid crescent]

facebook making anything besides uncanny valley guy talknig to other uncanny valley guy in a mt dew sponsored cube is really unlikely

[pseudo basalt]

there are lots of platforms that might have potential

[limber anvil]

well i mean one in specific

[rigid crescent]

The isuse with all these platforms is literally one thing, they're not vrchat

[limber anvil]

that game me quite a lot of vrchat vibes

[pseudo basalt]

but big companies don't want platforms with custom avatars that infringe copyrights

[limber anvil]

yeah

[rigid crescent]

They don't have the name, they don't have the draw, they don't have the history or anything

[pseudo basalt]

so they are uncanny, ugly and sanitized

[limber anvil]

watch as VRChat becomes the oasis

[rigid crescent]

Those games are great for world exploration but not for personal customization or t he same type of socialization either

[limber anvil]

esp due to the "community" ive heard about from rec room

[rigid crescent]

and that's what people want

[limber anvil]

something about cosmetic elitism

[pseudo basalt]

vrchat has the obvious advantage of having a popular name, but it still entirely depends on how the devs handle it in the next few years

[limber anvil]

which something that they reall do need is a visual scripting system for maps tho

as a lot of newcomers to vrchat would look at what map making is currently and just be confused

[pseudo basalt]

A common opinion back around when the box came out was that the devs are incompetent and the unity version sucks. They've taken good steps to improving the game but it's still somewhat clunky

[limber anvil]

the box?

[rigid crescent]

I mean, this latest release kinda proved that incompetency.

[limber anvil]

you mean the map or the game?

[pseudo basalt]

The map

[limber anvil]

ok

[rigid crescent]

Why would you, in any reality ever release an update like this, at this time?

[limber anvil]

wait what happened?

[umbral oracle]

Unity is a prefab engine not custom like hifi. But that is also a booster engine that got vrchat ahead of the others with a full feature set necessary for such a platform to take off

Yes @rigid crescent i think it was a good decision. The right kind of crazy gamble given no critical breaking issue 😃 I'm crazy too so....

[pseudo basalt]

Unity has the advantage of having a huge asset store

[queen mango]

[limber anvil]

no seriousely what happened about The Box?

[queen mango]

Just don't get near that one marketplace with the nasty stuff

[pseudo basalt]

nothing, I used it as a time reference to maybe 6 months ago

[queen mango]

Well, about the Box.. It's doing fine

[pseudo basalt]

but i would never volunterily go there

[limber anvil]

oh

[pseudo basalt]

bad reputation and extremely boring aesthetic

[queen mango]

Basically that.

[limber anvil]

ah

[queen mango]

And quite unoptimized too

[rigid crescent]

This is probably one of the worst updates we've gotten and it had to be rushed because....well, who even knows? Why did it have to get pushed out so quickly with plenty of known issues? Why even risk the IK and whatnot messing up the network?

[woven steppe]

Sup

[queen mango]

Christmas Season comes around..

Oh hello, ACH.

[rigid crescent]

I just want to know the mindset behind that kind of decision, which we'll probably never get an answer to.

[pseudo basalt]

Christmas and oculus, yes

[torn nebula]

@rigid crescent some combination of critical security fixes and hubris?

[limber anvil]

well, anyways, im gonna log onto vrchat

l8r

[pseudo basalt]

perhaps a hard internal deadline

[woven steppe]

We talking about Free Box of Lag?

[rigid crescent]

Yeah, Christmas coming around. WHy not just wait? You know you wont' be able to fix any issues this massive update might cause, so just wait a few more weeks.

[torn nebula]

@pseudo basalt I'm guessing security support ended for the old unity version

[pseudo basalt]

they've also rebranded

[queen mango]

Shoulda been better around the day after New Year's Eve, tbh

[pseudo basalt]

to look more appealing

perhaps the beta didn't give them enough data too

[rigid crescent]

You literally had chairs to fall back on. You had a real tangible thing people have wanted for months on end, and were waiting eagerly for once they were announced, and you just decide to rush it alongside the IK stuff

[queen mango]

They have closed beta to work on, Pumkin.. but

[pseudo basalt]

valve loves to release broken updates even out of betas to scramble to fix issues as they arrise on live. More people get exposed to it and issues get fixed faster

[rigid crescent]

https://puu.sh/CmOiG/fa8c57b319.png But it was the biggest one yet.

[pseudo basalt]

But it's not a very good approach

[queen mango]

It ain't enough.

We could've had less than a number of that reporting the issues to them

[pseudo basalt]

100 people vs 4000

[rigid crescent]

See that's one point I considered. "Let's just push this and see what bad stuff happens on al arge scale so we can fix it, E Z" but the problem is they literally can't fix it til january

[torn nebula]

Really they should've run this in shadow mode - have a certain percentage of users send IK data that's ignored so they can watch the server load. But these sorts of operational lessons aren't taught in school...

[pseudo basalt]

That's also extra work bd

[rigid crescent]

I also asked about that Pumkin https://puu.sh/CmOjY/8fd2ffdf17.png

[torn nebula]

Oh and never deploy on a Friday or before the holiday

@pseudo basalt true. But this sort of testing helps avoid losing user trust, and can save time in the long run

[pseudo basalt]

I'm sure they don't have the time to do everything right

[grizzled badger]

I’m getting pretty irritated with these VR Chat disconnections...

[pseudo basalt]

Judging by how the game is handled

[rigid crescent]

I have a screenshot for all of these posts apparently. Here's him memeing about oculus messing up

https://puu.sh/ClA7w/01d0b8fe28.png

[queen mango]

Damn.. connection's borking for you?

[torn nebula]

Feature flag systems are super helpful for quick rollbacks too

[dusky lance]

[torn nebula]

But it can be hard to work on burning down tech debt when your world is on fire

[rigid crescent]

If you're short handed and low on resources or time or whatever, why take a risk like this?

Why not wait liek 2 more weeks, even hit us with a "hey, we'll be rolling out this patch some time in january, watch out for it!"

[pseudo basalt]

All the extra dev hours put into putting systems in place to do things right could be used to botch it and fix it later maybe, knowing most of the community will have no choice but to deal with it

[queen mango]

Like, why the rush? There's another holiday you can release your update in

[rigid crescent]

Yeah but botching in on monday and fixing it by friday isn't the same as botching it on the holiday and then not being able to fix it for weeks

[queen mango]

[pseudo basalt]

That's very true

[torn nebula]

@rigid crescent this, too, is the sort of painful lesson you learn with actual operational experience unfortunately :/

[pseudo basalt]

In the end we may never know

[rigid crescent]

I mean these people aren't first year hires right out of college

[umbral oracle]

Gives people another incentive to properly celebrate their holidays in the real world with family? :-p

[grizzled badger]

Yeah... i mean I have a semi decent laptop, but it shouldn’t be disconnecting me every 10-12 seconds!

[torn nebula]

Game dev tends to be a bit less, uh, operationally refined than other fields I hear

Just in general

[rigid crescent]

i feel like that's just basic planning, not even a refined skill you need to know

[queen mango]

Dunno.. but was it crunch time that's dappin these devs' capabilities?

[torn nebula]

You'd be surprised.

[rigid crescent]

What's worse is that you know for a fact that 100% of the team didn't agree to this ,there's absolutely no way

[pseudo basalt]

It looks to me like a deadline that had to be met, maybe for oculus

[rigid crescent]

so there's a chance they flat out ignored people who are, hopefully, sitting on some fat "I told you so" thrones right now

[pseudo basalt]

Possibly for christmas, considering the rebranding

[queen mango]

Deadlines

[rigid crescent]

Hopefully this is a wakeup notice, but I doubt it considering how they've handled things.

[pseudo basalt]

I'm sure they had a plan, it was just not the one you'd expect

[rigid crescent]

I mean it's just a foreign concept to me that no one had these thoughts.

"What if the update breaks? We can't fix it for weeks."

[pseudo basalt]

Strike deal with oculus, rebrand to look more appealing, big update before christmas for people to take notice and maybe buy more headsets

[rigid crescent]

You've got messed up favorites, people who are constantly disconnecting or flat otu haven't been able to connect for extended periods, I think the longest I saw being 12 days

[pseudo basalt]

Maybe they decided that the attention gain will outweigh the issues

As well as underestimate what issues would arrise

[queen mango]

Maybe it did.. but the servers can only handle so many

[rigid crescent]

The server's issues had nothing to do with new players

[pseudo basalt]

I kind of doubt they did

[rigid crescent]

we've been fine with 20k players on

[pseudo basalt]

!online

[floral flax]

There are 5825 users in VRChat currently

[pseudo basalt]

it usually hovers around 5k

[queen mango]

Maybe it's more on the server rents getting unpaid..

[rigid crescent]

Most likely not

[queen mango]

[rigid crescent]

otherwise they'd be down completely lol

[pseudo basalt]

Close to 6 now so maybe it did get new players

[queen mango]

Okay.. could be external factors then

[pseudo basalt]

Gophers chewing on the server cables

Welp, there goes the favorite worlds cable

[rigid crescent]

"The largest change is that we have reverted the IK optimizations that caused IK to be calculated on each user's machine and then transmitted over network. Unfortunately this resulted in additional load that we cannot handle at this time. "

Literally an internal issue lol

[pseudo basalt]

That sounded like the most promising thing about the update

[rigid crescent]

Yeah, I was more excited for that. When it was working, you could see the difference.

all my friends with crammed into public pugs sitting at 60FPS or more and just having fun with chairs and cloning avatars

[pseudo basalt]

I didn't get to see that as I didn't play much at that time

but performance is also a reason i avoid big public worlds

[errant vault]

The box?

[pseudo basalt]

Mostly pug, box replaced the pug in my "never go here" slot

[covert linden]

I like the box

I cant load the pug without regrets

[errant vault]

I replaced avatar testing with the box

[rigid crescent]

why would you do that lol

[pseudo basalt]

there are plenty of other nice small maps to stand in front of a mirror with friends

[rigid crescent]

Avatar Test is still my go to for, yknow, testing avatars

[pseudo basalt]

I don't like avatar testing

[errant vault]

I am alone, but not alone with bots in unity playmaker

[pseudo basalt]

It was the old box basically and I burned out on it

[rigid crescent]

yeah that's true

[pseudo basalt]

i just go to the hub because it has a big mirror

if I need to test

[opaque hawk]

Box is so boring for me know.

[pseudo basalt]

Certain maps just make me feel unwell, and that's usually becsuse of burnout

So I tend to hang out in random maps when I just want to be with friends

[errant vault]

Vrchat is boring until we can interact with bots

[opaque hawk]

I’m hoping my hangout map can slowly start to take off. It’s kind of a pug/presentation room hybrid

[pseudo basalt]

Box is literally the worst place you would want to be in, save for maybe actually obnoxious or poorly performing maps

[idle nova]

[covert linden]

@opaque hawk if you dm me the nake ill take my friends there

[errant vault]

People with distortion shaders lurk in the box

[pseudo basalt]

And public box is just a containment area for cancer

[opaque hawk]

Sure Ashs

[pseudo basalt]

It's just missing the caution tapes

[queen mango]

Wrap em around a body for extra caution..

[vast tulip]

@pseudo basalt I completely remodeled avatar testing, if you havnt seen it :P

[pseudo basalt]

I haven't been there since halloween

[vast tulip]

check it out then I released it on the day 2017 came out

[pliant prawn]

You made the Avatar Testing world?

[pseudo basalt]

I will at some point

[vast tulip]

yeah

[pliant prawn]

Neat

[safe prism]

new one is neat c:

[queen mango]

Any optimizations needed?

Never been there for at least 3 months

[pseudo basalt]

It's not a bad map I just burn out on maps that people are in 24/7 for weeks and unfortunately it was one for my friend group

[errant vault]

I think the games category got removed

[queen mango]

[grizzled badger]

Omfg....

[queen mango]

You sure?

[errant vault]

I don't see it

[grizzled badger]

The disconnections...

[vast tulip]

@pseudo basalt they why I try to change it up quite often :>

[opaque hawk]

Yes it is gone

[pseudo basalt]

I'll check it out

[queen mango]

I'mma have to check it out after I get back from my relative's place

[errant vault]

I forgot which map had Ugandas that can attack you

[queen mango]

In the meantime.. any other issues?

[umbral oracle]

@vast tulip I do kind of miss spawning directly in the mix with everyone. It's a bit of an adventure to get back when you respawn.

[errant vault]

I think I was defending a bomb

[umbral oracle]

But I see the point in redesigning too

[vast tulip]

the point of the new spawn is a lot of people like to just hang out there and dont want the mirror. this lets you spawn in with most of everything culled and turn the mirror off before it turns on :P

also, I like it like that, thats a reason too heh

[pseudo basalt]

I still like testing stuff in the hub mirror tho, it's actually really comfy and otherwise I don't have much reason to go there

[opaque hawk]

There was something nice about spawning in at a crowded lobby

[queen mango]

If you don't mind having a CPU hog..

[errant vault]

What if the lobby was a game lobby

[umbral oracle]

Oh that's actually a good point. Sure there was that spot light pool area before but no nice place to chill. We had that halloween area for a while and people started to hang out there

[queen mango]

Oh, even better.. You get to play with then

[opaque hawk]

It was also really annoying

[queen mango]

Desu's NieR: Automata Flowers map is nice too..

By the way.. there's some crater near the green Lunar Tear with a strange object in the center of it

[pseudo basalt]

Another map I burned out on a lot after weeks of everyone being there

[queen mango]

Can't get enough of the music tho..

[pseudo basalt]

It genuinely feels unpleasant now

[queen mango]

Oof..

[pliant prawn]

Never leave the public Pugs. Just embrace the filth.

[pseudo basalt]

Substance abuse is serious, even if the substance is a vrchat map

[vast tulip]

substance painter and designer?

[queen mango]

Why not drink a glass of wine with me?

[pseudo basalt]

On the bright side ancient maps like gaia night feel comfy and nostalgic again

[queen mango]

🍷

[tidal aspen]

yeah it was pretty fun spawning right in and instantly something somewhat interesting was happening

[pseudo basalt]

Whereas there was burnout before

I like the Easter egg song in flowers

If it would loop it would be great

[queen mango]

Ah yes.. Weight of the World

[pseudo basalt]

But I'd also like to see some new map with glowing flowers at night, outside somewhere

For some reason seeing the night sky makes the map 100 times more comfy

[pliant prawn]

Isn't there something like Grassy Field at Night?

[errant vault]

Interaction with bots would be endgame

[pseudo basalt]

There is but last I checked it was pretty laggy unfortunately

[errant vault]

Team Slayer

[opaque hawk]

What would the bots be for?

[pliant prawn]

Oh that's too bad

[errant vault]

They replace players

[pseudo basalt]

Depending on how much of the grass you can see

Still waiting for a faithful recreation or port of The Kiln of the First Flame from ds3

[errant vault]

You playing by yourself, bots will fill player count

[pseudo basalt]

Majula is quite comfy already, but there are more pretty places from ds

[pliant prawn]

Oh shit Majula

[teal turtle]

There's a majula?!

[pseudo basalt]

It's been there for months and it's pretty comfy but last I checked the music was broken so you'd have to launch a YouTube video in the background for the music and ambience

The ambience and music really give it a better feel

[pliant prawn]

Yeah that sucks

[queen mango]

I loved Firelink Shrine from DS1.. you can see everything from the bonfire area

Not to mention it also doubled as an avatar world

[pseudo basalt]

It was great climbing everywhere and looking at all the stuff with friends

[queen mango]

Mhm.

[umbral oracle]

Some people have music "bots" (accounts with a custom input device selected) and you can control wasd motion with pies for basic activity

[queen mango]

And finding ava. pedestals in places

[opaque hawk]

Firelink shrine is awesome. I remember being a noob and that world went public. A bunch of the contributors were there just hanging out with the visitors.

[pseudo basalt]

Incidetally going out of bounds in maps from familiar games feels like discovering new stuff

[queen mango]

Wait.. when was Firelink Shrine released?

[opaque hawk]

I think January

[pseudo basalt]

Honestly I like majula a bit more

[queen mango]

Oh.. and they were greeting bunches till April?

[teal turtle]

Majula was the only thing I liked about DS2.

[pseudo basalt]

It's more colorful and comfy

Also ds1 up close looks pretty silly

Yeah it was nice

[queen mango]

:GwynThink:

[pseudo basalt]

DS3 on the other hand has a lot of very pretty areas

[queen mango]

Yess.. Irithyll

[pseudo basalt]

Ariandel

[queen mango]

Ringed City too.. even though I didn't play the DLC

[pseudo basalt]

Oh yeah

[queen mango]

Aside from that.. everything seems better with snow

[errant vault]

Rogur

[pseudo basalt]

Yep

Ringed city gave off prince of persia vibes

Kiln of the first flame would look pretty damn trippy

in vr

[queen mango]

I would think so.. but it has to be optimized

I probably have yet to see a custom-created map that can match the beauty of such maps like those

[pseudo basalt]

Yeah, it's a rare find

A cold, dark and very gentle place is pretty comfy

Albeit simplistic

[opaque hawk]

It isn’t easy. I tried doing something like that and I can’t say I was successful

[queen mango]

Mhm..

[pseudo basalt]

Yeah, making maps from scratch is pretty hard

Unless you have experience

In which case it's time consuming

[ocean bramble]

Making maps is easy. Making good maps on the other hand..

[opaque hawk]

This

[queen mango]

Best we can do is atleast make recreations.. which begs the question-

Will we ever see a fully functioning NieR: Automata Amusenent Park?

[ocean bramble]

Yes please

[queen mango]

[pseudo basalt]

Modelling isn't that hard for me but texturing makes me a

[opaque hawk]

I’m glad I was able to find free asteroids on the asset store. Flipped the faces and made them into a cave.

[ocean bramble]

This is brilliant lol

[pseudo basalt]

Stormy cave was also comfy

I feel like ambient sounds make a big impact in vr

and just making a map feel bigger than it is

[languid beacon]

if you pose an avatar during the upload process in order to make a nice preview picture, will the avatar be stuck in that pose?

[pseudo basalt]

In my own maps I tried doing everything from scratch to reach somewhat mediocre results, but probably better than most default unity cube maps

[opaque hawk]

Pumpkin maybe try out my map Astroid Condo. It has a cave with cricket sounds.

@languid beacon nope you are fine

[pseudo basalt]

No, the avatar has already been packaged by the time the upload screen comes up

So you can do whatever to it

And coming out of play mode will revert the changes so you're good

I'll take a look @opaque hawk

[sly edge]

Do people have colliders on their feet allowed?

[errant vault]

Why would there be colliders there?

[queen mango]

Uhh.. I may assume that they may uh..

[sly edge]

Idk people said for it to fly

[rigid crescent]

flight

[sly edge]

Is it allowed?

[errant vault]

Oh, box colliders

[rigid crescent]

yep

[sly edge]

My friend is asking me and pestering me

[errant vault]

You just become an astronaut

Or a rocket

Desktop peeps can't access their menu

[royal basin]

there's no rule saying its not allowed

so go for it

[fading tendon]

Merry Holiday's

[vocal shard]

Can anyone suggest me some good game to play w/ vive?

[errant vault]

Mech arcade?

[queen mango]

There's SuperHot VR

[opal veldt]

huh

i favourited some avatars but it doesnt show in the favourites list, is there any ways to fix that?

[true sky]

For me, it showed up after 24 hours of favoriting the avatar

Probably a known issue

[opal veldt]

hmm

[bitter bone]

Merry Xmas from WA!

[errant vault]

They're now private

Times up

[bitter bone]

I hope you all have a great Christmas :D

[errant vault]

I hope peeps don't mix bullets with fireworks at newyears in CA

[umbral oracle]

🎄

people in CA are pretty chill on christmas haha. Newyears some people get fireworks from out of state but nothing compared to what I have seen in europe. People go completely bonkers on newyears in german cities for example - fireworks going off along major city streets

me and friends will probably google for new years stream and it will turn out to be a live stream rebroadcasting a 1 minute delayed recording of the previous year's new years complete with ads. but by the time we figure it out it's too late to find a good one

[errant vault]

Last time I saw something crazy was when the cops came to confiscate all the fireworks from a neighborhood. About six cars came

[queen mango]

Heh.. people in Asia can get pretty crazy with New Years

Take Philippines for example.. They set of so many fireworks, even before December came along that the guys in the barrios had to ban them

[opaque hawk]

Christmas is pretty chill in CA

[mighty galleon]

yeah

a little too warm though

[queen mango]

Nowadays.. not many in the Philippines are celebrating much..

No grand expenses on food like that.. just simple greetings

[errant vault]

i live near a beach so were getting a lot of wind here

[opaque hawk]

Depends where you live in CA. It’s mostly mountains

[mighty galleon]

oh, i live in the middle so no air xD

[errant vault]

we made lots of tamales

[umbral oracle]

haha the population isn't mostly mountainous however - we are concentrated in the cities of course

[vital rune]

can I ask if the author of Toga and ikita's avatar world are here

[mighty galleon]

i live in the poorest county in cali xD

[queen mango]

Oof

[opaque hawk]

I know exactly where you are speaking of

[mighty galleon]

its not paradise

[errant vault]

medota?

[mighty galleon]

no

[errant vault]

orange cove

[mighty galleon]

i thought orange was pretty well off

[queen mango]

Off-question: Umm.. why do some people make a big fuss out of something considered insignificant?

[errant vault]

Self Entitlement?

[queen mango]

Not in a bragging way, more of emotionally investing themselves to making a big fuss of it..

...kinda way

[errant vault]

They're triggered

[opaque hawk]

It’s been a thing since humans have had tradition

[queen mango]

Hmm.. like in "X said that what Y did ruined their day even though it didn't for Z" kinda way.. basically my mum

I don't get the her thought process behind it.. and she still hadn't gotten over it.

[errant vault]

who is mom, x,y,or z

[queen mango]

X

[mighty galleon]

"Because you dont have the pizza ready when its called 'hot and ready' ruined my day" next customer "yeah i'll gladly wait the 5 minutes"

[queen mango]

Sounds like it..

She said something along the lines of "You argued with the man was cutting into the lane, (cries).. You ruined my day!"
Meanwhile me: Internally confused

Not to mention that it happened on Christmas Eve

While getting back

Even though nobody else was celebrating Christmas much

She still hasn't gotten over it for like 2 hours

[errant vault]

she did not want any unnecessary trouble happening. just let the guy drive off

[vital rune]

excuse me, is the author of Toga and ikita's avatar world here

[errant vault]

haven't seen them active yet

[queen mango]

Nope

Anyways.. yes, that's what my Dad did even tho he was the one who got a little agitated by them

[vital rune]

damn, I already miss my favorited Fukaziroh avatar

[errant vault]

she must have watched roadrage videos on YouTube

[queen mango]

She, on the other hand, made a big fuss even though she wasn't the one who started it

Neither wasn't she a part of it, she just had to get herself involved

Like whut?

[errant vault]

he could have escalated the situation into an accident

[queen mango]

Yea.. but he was just telling the guy off for cutting into the lane

Nothing serious..

[errant vault]

that usually escalates into roadrage if the driver was Self Entitled

[queen mango]

Besides, the guy cutting into the lane wasn't entirely aware of it

Young guy too, probably in his 20s

[errant vault]

was the dad's tone angry

[queen mango]

Kind of.. but understandable considering our country's traffic situation

Besides, I've been with him a lot more than once

So I know what he feels about it

[errant vault]

she must be fearing that one day, the dad wont get home in one piece from driving

[queen mango]

Maybe..

[indigo spear]

im sad i coudent sleep for 3 hours then slept for 6.30 hours then woke up now i need to wait for my brother to get my oculus :I

[static cargo]

so someone in public lobby #1 is crashing people thier name starts with a 4

[umbral oracle]

#moderation-reports . You don't say which world so I assume the Box? Why do people even visit that world haha

[static cargo]

yeah its the box

[umbral oracle]

So many beautiful places to explore, just wander around to other worlds

[static cargo]

i'm trying to get in to take a screen shot of thier name

if you could do it for me

[umbral oracle]

You can get it in your output log

[static cargo]

the keep logging me out

[umbral oracle]

Oh if I could be ingame I would but not at home haha so here on discord chatting with the few people not doing their own thing

[static cargo]

is it in the crash dump?

[umbral oracle]

Just move on. Best way to deal with that. Not worth your time and rejoining just glorifies them more. Best way to deal with trolls is show them you don't care and do something else

!outputlog

[floral flax]

You can find your output log at C:\Users\%Username%\AppData\LocalLow\VRChat\vrchat named output_log.txt

[umbral oracle]

Will show up in there sometimes though if it's photon related it might not show who did it in the log. Just move on after shooting off your output log in an email

[static cargo]

OnPhotonPlayerPropertiesChanged is this what your talking about?

OnPhotonPlayerDisconnected

yeah he kicked 3 people off before i said something

[vocal shard]

is anyone available to play with idk where to go

[rigid crescent]

delete tht

[indigo spear]

still 20 min then im allowed to wake my brother up

[rigid crescent]

callouts llike that are against roolzz

just follow #moderation-reports

[tardy knot]

Anyone else have an issue with Favorite Avatar's ?

[umbral oracle]

what sort of issue? there is some lag when you add an avatar before it actually shows up

I think I had several minute or half an hour when the update first came out for one of them

[tardy knot]

https://gyazo.com/1a17f1a6b3f3754f8864a4e6ce355c49

Says I have 12. But shows 3 old ones that aren't favorited anymore..

And not letting me choose the new ones at all... Idk what to do. Have tried logging out, restarting computer, verifying game files...

[umbral oracle]

oh man haven't seen that happen. no idea 😕 favorite worlds have that sort of issue too so who knows if it's the same thing best I can do is wish you luck

[tardy knot]

Damn

[vast tulip]

@tardy knot did you try to reload vrc?

[tardy knot]

Reload @vast tulip ?

[vast tulip]

quit, reopen

[tardy knot]

Yeah.

Did not fix.

[true sky]

wait 24 hours for them to show up

not sure why but shows to work, but hope they fix favorite avatars list

[tardy knot]

Alright. Hope that fixes it...

[queen mango]

It's not just people here in this Discord that are concerned with VRChat's performance.. Avatar and world creators within the game also express their concern

Well, the guys who ain't in this Discord.. but they're still aware of it

[vocal shard]

Hi

[true sky]

some of it is the world/avatars and some is vrchat related, but following optimization guides usually helps

some lag comes from the world menu tab and social tab is 50/50

depending on how many friends are online

[vast tulip]

Those aren't going to make you lag while they aren't open though

[true sky]

tru

[rotund wren]

Merry Christmas VRChat Gamers! Hope you all got VR and everything you asked for! Have good food and remember to turn off holoport 3p locomotion if you're new to vr! 😉 ✨ 🎄

[brisk umbra]

merry christmas mate i got my vr last month as a early christmas present so i hope everyone gets what they want

[lapis nebula]

@rotund wren what you doing in here mate ?

[true sky]

?

[rotund wren]

being a good vrchatter

[lapis nebula]

He hardly ever chats in the main rooms

[true sky]

ah

😛

[rotund wren]

This is a lie I always chat when the banta is rolling

love a bit of drama

bitta banta

[lapis nebula]

T’is true

[true sky]

🍿

count me in to watch 🤷

[rotund wren]

exactly

[lapis nebula]

@rotund wren you might know the answer to this then....

@rotund wren on a pc with i7 5820k cpu and gtx 970 gfx card, which would improve VRChat if i upgraded ?

Cpu or gfx card

[vast tulip]

I would say the gtx 970

[rotund wren]

I mean both of them are decently well and you probably wouldn't notice much improvement with the game. BUT upgrading perhaps your gpu would increase your usability of the oculus and steam vr overlays in game. This is from my experince going from a 980 to 1080

[vast tulip]

Upgrade that. There is a huge jump, specifically for vr, in the 10 series

[rotund wren]

plus every other game would be better too. Your cpu is still pretty decent

yeah what mimi said

[lapis nebula]

I was considering upgrading from gtx 970 to 1080 or 1080 ti

[rotund wren]

1080 in the other vr games makes things way better

yeah I heard though 2080 arn't worth the price point atm so 1080ti would be more than enough

[lapis nebula]

So, upgrading to a 1080 is a definite worthwhile upgrade ?

[placid zealot]

Yea

[rotund wren]

yeah

even from my 980 it was worth it

[lapis nebula]

Tyvm, now i know what to pester wife for, lol

[brisk umbra]

i bought beatsaber today so i am ready

[rotund wren]

Great VR game! Make sure to install the mods to play custom songs!

so good

[lapis nebula]

Need to check if my X99 Extreme6 will take it

@rotund wren my mobo is Asrock X99 Extreme6

[rotund wren]

its a new gpu the slots will be the same as the 970 for sure. Just make sure there is enough room in your case. your power supply will probably be enough

[lapis nebula]

Kk

[vocal shard]

omg

did they actually remove the poly limit

[umbral reef]

No

[vocal shard]

up to 70k now

oh

[weak lantern]

i wish i could play

[vocal shard]

still an improvement though

[weak lantern]

Login is bugged

[vocal shard]

it wasn't bugged for me

[weak lantern]

Login is fine. Move from Home world to public and BAM infinite loop login

[vocal shard]

heh

i got that kinda but then it logged me out and i logged in again and then i was able to play

[weak lantern]

I logged back in again and still does it

[hollow sluice]

every time i go to play vr chat now im logged out

[weak lantern]

I am thinking of leaving it to login over night when im a sleep

Just reinstalling it now

[vocal shard]

is it me or does uploading models to vrchat go alot faster now

"THIS AVATAR WILL NOT PERFORM WELL ON MANY SYSTEMS"
plays game
everyone in the server still has 60 fps

visible confusion

well ya know.... i can play games just as worse then vrchat just fine..

[weak lantern]

90fps here

[vocal shard]

i max 92 it likes to rapid swap between 91 and 92 but even with full things unlocked i hit like 40fps in a busy map heh

i can display 90fps but my monitor screen can't refresh that fast

monitor can only go to 60fps

rip. ive got the power but not the screen

[umbral reef]

@vocal shard If you wear a backpack
And have 20 Kilo's in it
I add another 2 kilo will that change a lot?

[vocal shard]

im stuck at 60fps as well but kinda pointless once it drops down to 40 some times

[weak lantern]

in void i drop to around 25fps alot

Even with 1080Ti and I7 8086K

[vocal shard]

uhhh no cause 70k is the limit now not 20k @umbral reef

[umbral reef]

Im not talking about poly gongs at ALL my dude- But ima just keep going

So no- A small amount wont make it worse?
But what if we do that 2 kilo lets say 15 times?
Hmm- Then its fairly heavy and not fun to carry at all anymore

[vocal shard]

"vrchat you must be 13 years or older to play" -terms and service of vrchat
sees 8 year old hanging out with furry/anime tiddy avatars
911 FBI OPEN UP

[umbral reef]

What if we all reduce our 2 kilo into, lets say 1 kilo or even 0.5 kilo :o?!
Ow wait shit boi- Now things carry on fine!

Avatars are not a signle unit problem
Its a group problem. If everyone is badly optimized everyone will suffer
If one person is badly optimized no one will suffer

Because everyone thinks there own avatar is fine, what causes everyone to have badly optimized avatars. Everyone suffers

Everyone can be running in 90 FPS 30+ user worlds...
And after the IK update that is even easier to do

[queen mango]

@vocal shard Damn.. and I thought I'm underage

[weak lantern]

I would love to help Dev VRchat but my Anxiety and panic attack issues hold me back for now 😦

[umbral reef]

How would you help them though 🤔

[weak lantern]

I know Basic, Visual Basic, C++, Java, Python and Perl and used them in the past for work

[umbral reef]

Do you have experience within Unity though?

[hollow sluice]

jfc people still go into the pug and server crash

[umbral reef]

And you would be applying for a real job- Not just helping out and stuff.

[weak lantern]

Learning Unity now since i never had to play with it before. Its not that hard 😃

[umbral reef]

Trust me the advance stuff within unity cna get complex fast :')
Mainly because the team is using it while in VR

[weak lantern]

Cant have a job right now due to issues

Plus in Australia its very hard for an Autistic guy to get a job of any kind

[umbral reef]

Best way to help the team right now then is to debunk rumors and help users

[weak lantern]

I do that in game

About updates and features

Tweaks for better FPS also

Most of the time i sit around 60-90fps in 80% of the world

worlds

[vocal shard]

I CAN'T GET INTO VRCHAT! I'm stuck in a void.

[umbral reef]

Try the steps within #vrchat-support
If that fails there is not a lot you can do beside wait as its on VRC servers then

[lapis nebula]

@vocal shard the age limit never gets adhered to, I’ve seen plenty of kids aged under 13 playing

[ruby needle]

it actually does.
If it can be proven that someone is under 13 they'll get banned.

[queen mango]

Since they're not meant to be in VRC in the first place..

Cause of all the stuff that happens

By the way.. good afternoon, Paul

[lapis nebula]

@ruby needle i was talking to a 10 year old girl, finnbot, for at least a month, so, I’d disagree

[ruby needle]

if you can prove they are and send a report they'll get a ban

[lapis nebula]

And I recall a lad under 13, but, don’t recall their username

[ruby needle]

i didn't claim that they dont exist.

[queen mango]

Man, I dunno.. They are having a bit of fun with the game, but with all the dangers VRChat poses to them..

[lapis nebula]

My apologies, I was just saying that unfortunately, these kids don’t take notice of the age restriction

[queen mango]

I mean, me and Squishy encountered a young kid few months ago..

[lapis nebula]

Does the report button have an underage option ?

[queen mango]

No, I think not...

[lapis nebula]

Shame

I’ve only used the report button on hitler avatars up to now

I’m pretty easy going and hardly anything offends me, but, that’s a bit too much imho

Not seen them, yet

But, I am pretty depraved

My mind is so open, my brain fell out

[warped dew]

quick

how to trigger safety mode?

[queen mango]

Shift+Esc

[raven mulch]

don't know about vive, but if you use oculus touch, push down both trigger buttons and press both A/B and X/Y buttons at the same time

[lapis nebula]

Well, I’ve got an Achmed the Dead Terrorist @cold saddle

He’ll keel yoooo

He’s a terrible terrorist, he has premature detonation

Great character though

Nah, just specials

I love Peanut too

Jeff Dunham is an amazing ventriloquist

I’d love to see a guy called Brian Hull in VRChat, he does amazing impressions, or Azers from YouTube

Azzers

He does family guy characters, Donald trump, obama

And Ted

His Ted plays call of duty is hilarious

Right, back to xmas dinner

[obsidian fern]

Anyone having problems with faving friends

I can't seem to be able to do it

[raven mulch]

i read that as "having friends" and i was like

"me, all the time"

[obsidian fern]

XD

[vocal shard]

I just got a mixed reality headset for Christmas will it work for vrchat