is dynamic bone is mostly running on 1 core
#vrchat-general-2
vocal shard
dawn pecan
The dynamic bones that move around do 90 calculations per second on teh position of the polygons they affect (or something like that)
This is mathematical functions done by the CPU (processor)
vocal shard
so if you have 20 guys in a room
with 200 dyn bone per person
and 2 colliders per person
anyone, no matter his specs
will lag
and a lot
a dynamic bone collider is an absolute nightmare
jaunty edge
i think you guys are afraid of lag
dawn pecan
The limiting factor is the CPU, and CPUs have barely gotten better in the past 5 years
placid zealot
🤔
vocal shard
afraid of lag ?
royal basin
placid zealot
Seems legit
placid zealot
You enjoy stuttering along in the game xD?
dawn pecan
I spend like 3000$ on my hardware in the past few years, I don't want to drop below 20 FPS
jaunty edge
did you ever turn on your safety?
placid zealot
With vr it's especially daunting.
royal basin
just play in desktop l o l
just have a good internet connection l o l
I have safety turned on
jaunty edge
and still causes the problems
royal basin
And i have only friends on
dawn pecan
I'd have to block avatar to stop dynamic bones, which means I'd have to block the majority of avatars to have a good FPS
dawn pecan
"Dynamic bones" should be its own shield thing (pretty please)
placid zealot
Anti dynamic bone shield xD
vocal shard
i dont use the safety because i dont want to have a bunch of grey floating garbage around me
what kinda logic is that ?
allow laggy avatars because you can use the safety ?
dawn pecan
It only really helps if you know who is currently lagging you
jaunty edge
am i just making things worse or what? i just don’t know what i went into
dawn pecan
And if they have a low rank
vocal shard
also, they are apparently planning to add the dynamic bones as a setting to disable/enable it
dawn pecan
We're saying that dynamic bones are one of the biggest causes of lag in the game and that there's no real solution other than limit the uploading of laggy avatars
vocal shard
dunno if it will be in the safety system or in an optimization menu
royal basin
Hopefully that is a thing
median basalt
Trust system is not related to performance
Performance will get its own system
Hopefully then we can enable/disable cameras selectively too
dawn pecan
It's used for performance too atm, by players
dawn pecan
Why do other's cameras make one lag?
placid zealot
What do you mean lol? Made it worse?
queen mango
Could be server-side
median basalt
Adding a new camera is
jaunty edge
i dunno
median basalt
Laggy
dawn pecan
There is no point in rendering what they see because player cameras are never visible to you
median basalt
Yeah, that's what I wanna change
They are visible for friends only which is weird
Actually it's weirder
royal basin
You just don't know what you're talking about tdm
And theres nothing wrong with that but
dawn pecan
With the exception of avatar cameras which are used for taking pictures
royal basin
Know that optimization is important
jaunty edge
why is there a trusted user rank even though most of the people still caused my game to crash, even with safety on?
median basalt
Cameras are local only unless you do an "exploit", after which it's visible for friends
Why is there a safety system if most malicious users now use modded clients?
vocal shard
because the trust system is dumb
median basalt
^
vocal shard
and it shouldnt be a thing in a social game
dawn pecan
Ah menu cameras are local? I guess that was patched when the update came out and everybody was complaining about lag for a while
jaunty edge
i think we need less particles
royal basin
Lmao
vocal shard
not really no
ivory folio
good meme
dawn pecan
Unity are friends only usually, but menu should be strictly local, since other players can't see the camera screen anyways
It makes as much sense to render others cameras as it does to render others mirrors (while the mirror is disabled for you)
jaunty edge
i honestly don’t care about the lag just i vote to kick people and go on with my day
vocal shard
world creators can choose what the mirror is supposed to render
dawn pecan
That's because you're not in VR mode
placid zealot
Go on with your day. Very slowly..
royal basin
Have fun
dawn pecan
Or because you're not lagging enough
vocal shard
10 fps at a time
median basalt
I never drop below 45 thanks to the new public world limits
It's super easy to see the kiddie crashers these days
User or below, shader renders over everything
Basically a jawbones avatar that isn't actually jawbones
vocal shard
fucking jawbones
jaunty edge
even though i don’t have a vr headset, until i get one or watch what others do and maybe i’ll understand one day
dawn pecan
When you get loading screen loops, laggy sounds, below 10 FPS (which also cause motion sickness) you will want to block whichever idiot added dynamic bones to a tail with 100+ bones in it
median basalt
I hate the trust system, but seeing someone say "imma clap this guy" and then just awkwardly standing in his face while nothing happens brings me joy
royal basin
Nice
placid zealot
I've seen something similar to that happen lol it is interesting to witness.
dawn pecan
Is the particle limiter json still used?
vocal shard
yes
that's the only thing i use
didnt get crashed in 6+ months
the only crash i got was from a dude using a modded client, so the safety system wouldnt help me anyway
dawn pecan
You've not been to box then, right?
vocal shard
yes i did
dawn pecan
If you don't get crashed over the network
vocal shard
nobody can crash you with stuff from unity anymore if you use the safety system
network crash is using a modded client
so you can't even do anything about it
vocal shard
jaunty edge
i just wish i had that rule hadn’t happened yet then most people will just go on with making maps or maybe finding a better solution.... right now i just keep seeing people be upset because people having lag issues by something within a player that we don’t honestly don’t know how to fix without any creators being disappointed by their work gone to waste...
dawn pecan
You're totally misunderstanding how it works
royal basin
jaunty edge
i guess i’ll wait until some miracle happens... or somewhat anything...
vocal shard
i only saw 2-3 creators getting upset
everybody else is happy
so i dunno what you are talking about
jaunty edge
who though?
dawn pecan
Most sane people like the limit, because only unresonable avatars are prevented from being made public. It's also only for avatar worlds right now.
If you've above the limits, chances are that you didn't put a lot of work into your avatar, because optimizing it requires the most work
vocal shard
little mouse with avatars that got between 500 and 1k dyn bone
median basalt
Lmao
vocal shard
subcom world
royal basin
If you want to talk about their work getting to waste is having their avatars blocked by default for making everyone lag because they dont want to optimize their avatars
vocal shard
little mouse : "it's not my job to optimize my avatars, the devs needs to optimize their game first"
royal basin
Rule or no rule
median basalt
Subcom is correct that the devs blame avatars too much
But they also have to optimize their own ridiculous nonsense
median basalt
Idc if that world stays dead
vocal shard
hi
median basalt
1k bones? Really?
jaunty edge
:I
dawn pecan
It's not even "not optimizing", it's just creating totally unresonable things. It's like making your avatar entirely 4K textures
vocal shard
yeah
vocal shard
obviously.
ruby needle
If you need and have 10 4k atlases then you need to think about what you are doing 
jaunty edge
not much people use bones and still got unlisted
rigid crescent
"Blame the avatars too much" hmmm
i just want them to hit that full body dancer world already ugh
legit i look at one of them and my FPS drops by 5
hasty wedge
one of them has cloth on the hair 
dawn pecan
They they either had a lot of materials on their avatars, or forgot to merge meshes in Blender (which is one button click on CATS to do)
jaunty edge
the only public world which i see is laggy as fuck is a minecraft world
rigid crescent
Yeah, they don't really have to though since its so popular
it's not a the world thats laggy, its the avatars in the world
dawn pecan
And do you know why? Because bad worlds are rejected
rigid crescent
that too
i jsut want to to "Refresh" eveyone's favorites
that way we lose the favorited shit avatars
dawn pecan
But in worlds with 30+ players, the actual world itself is only a small portion of your lag, 90% will be avatars
At the very least. My worlds usually run at 1000-4000 FPS in the Unity profiler, same with my avatars
jaunty edge
i kinda had to be with some players using the player models that get rejected and prove that not all models get lag that much, we even tested with vr users
placid zealot
🤔
median basalt
@rigid crescent oh yeah, that "full body avatar world"
The one with cloth and dynamic bone on everything
Perhaps we should just report the world for performance issues then
dawn pecan
Basically, you're annoyed that you can't use avatars which lag other people out...
jaunty edge
🤔
median basalt
In worlds with 30+ players, the IK will lag people far before avatars will
jaunty edge
i think i just need a break for now...
dawn pecan
If you really want to do that, you can upload it yourself, but hopefully you will learn enough to realize that merging bones and textures is better
rigid crescent
oh good idea
royal basin
Perhaps do a little more research
rigid crescent
i'm gonna log in and report it lol
dawn pecan
It basically looks the same, but it runs much better
Rokk, in most worlds with 30+ people, disabling dynamic bones would at least double your FPS
jaunty edge
maybe i will and i think you guys should too
royal basin
🤔
dawn pecan
We know what we're talking about, you don't. That's the difference
royal basin
If you say so
placid zealot
Fbt dancers are going to be shook if that would bites the dust 👀
median basalt
@dawn pecan not exactly
Well then maybe those full body thots need something that isn't "any laggy head on a laggy shimakaze body"
rigid crescent
Just admit you're wrong Penguin lol
median basalt
I gain FPS when blocking avatars in full worlds but not that much
jaunty edge
:I
placid zealot
Exactly Rokk
dawn pecan
If those "hard working avatar creators" merged a few bones and made atlasses, they would basically look and feel the same to you, but would not be lagging others
median basalt
I spent two afternoons optimizing my 2hus
vocal shard
just buy a better PC
royal basin
Who does that
vocal shard
not my fault if you lag
median basalt
My Marisa looks like a mess now so I gotta redo it
Other than that everything is good
dawn pecan
You can buy as expensive a CPU as you want, you'll get 10 more FPS than a guy with a regular i7 at best
Because CPUs suck lately
jaunty edge
i won’t admit yet.
dawn pecan
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you
rigid crescent
It's not one or two models that are laggy, it's when all 20 people in a world have unoptimized avatars, that's when it causes issues
as "lag free" as you think they are, when there's a lot of them, they cause problems
dawn pecan
And with some of the rejected avatars, one or two is enough to lag everyone lol
jaunty edge
well we almost had 20 with the avatars we used...
dawn pecan
Especially on VR. If you're slightly laggy on Desktop, you can expect it to be almost unplayable for VR users
rigid crescent
I've actually started blocking the full body dancer avatars on sight, along with the Subcom ones lol
i have n oticed a difference
in publics that is
dawn pecan
Penguin the rules are based on benchmarks
rigid crescent
and big friends of guest lobbies
jaunty edge
subcom kinda actually lagged my game
rigid crescent
of course they are
jaunty edge
even with the avatars
median basalt
Subcom avatars are very recognizable
I like some of their styles
But the optimization is just lmao
jaunty edge
ill just get going...
rigid crescent
later
dawn pecan
We get what you're saying, but we have personal experience with how much avatars lag
rigid crescent
same
halcyon kestrel
such shit
dawn pecan
Most experienced users have about 1k hours played
jaunty edge
what keeps making you disconnect?
jaunty edge
what device are you using?
rigid crescent
yeah someone else mentionedthat earlier, theyre on for a minute then they get dced
dawn pecan
I think it's a modded client
halcyon kestrel
Windows
dawn pecan
After being hit by one it seems to continue, like that "hit list" thing
Not in a script kiddie discord though so I'm not updated
jaunty edge
and are you just using the discord on a website or the actual discord?
dawn pecan
Hacking and scripting even interests me. It's just that if you disconnect random people then you're an asshole.
And who?
placid zealot
It's not related to that Penguin.
dawn pecan
If people bitch about something in here, it's something that happened in VRChat lol
placid zealot
It's more annoying than scary. Kids being like LOLOL imma log all these people out woo!
dawn pecan
As much as I hate their policies, Discord itself runs pretty well
placid zealot
Very true.
dawn pecan
If you learn enough about computer security you will be scared
That goes for every industry though
placid zealot
I know what I should be scared of. Just not the kids logging people out in vrchat.
placid zealot
Unless they find a way to actually make it malicious
dawn pecan
There is likely a few unfound security holes
vocal shard
at some point, they will patch them all
placid zealot
Wouldn't be surprised.
vocal shard
will take several years
dawn pecan
But yeah, the logging out itself is annoying at best unless they make a bot which joins you and logs you out automatically
dawn pecan
They will never patch all, but most
placid zealot
That would be horrible
Outta sight outta mind if they don't hear us complaining they won't touch it xD
Until someone makes another exploit
vocal shard
that's actually how they do stuff
if the bug isnt reported on the canny
nobody cares
dawn pecan
You used to be able to DDOS With an amazing amplifier because of a bad design choice in the windows clock API thingy
vocal shard
sneezes
placid zealot
Damn
vocal shard
wow
dawn pecan
Hell, using the basic "ping" feature of CMD you could crash systems or run code remotely
dawn pecan
Called "Ping of death"
vocal shard
:start
start
goto start
just those 3 lines is enough to make your pc crash after several seconds
don't put that in a bat file
dawn pecan
This was remotely. Crashing your own system is easy
placid zealot
😱
dawn pecan
My dad made a program once which ran before another persons program by giving it a different file extension which came sooner in the alphabet
Then it would print "Formatting A:" and ran something like a checkdisk which caused the HDD to make the same sounds.
... Why do I always go off-topic
And svel, make that batch open itself lol
vocal shard
oh boi
cold talon
Wait how does a file extension change execution order 
dawn pecan
There was some system file which was ran by a CMD command, my dad made a file with another extension which was executed first. It was probably in the 80s or something so that's just how it worked
Maybe like how C files have headers? Not sure, really
cold talon
¯_(ツ)_/¯
sacred dove
Oh look
some assworm figured out how to drop portals to invalid worlds and boot you out of the game
inner cape
Very cool
sacred dove
10/10 what a rodent
vocal shard
don't forget to report him
sacred dove
Don't know who was doing it
Just that some dicknose was
the portal was being spawned on top of me
from a remote location
rigid crescent
ahhh a classique
vocal shard
dunno if they changed how portals work
but if you don't look at the name
you wont get teleported
rough pulsar
@sacred dove If you haven't restarted vrchat since that grab your output log and email it to moderation@vrchat.com along with when and where this happened.
!outputlog
floral flaxBOT
You can find your output log at C:\Users\%Username%\AppData\LocalLow\VRChat\vrchat named output_log.txt
lilac swan
Was about to say.
Output log is very nice thing to check when someone did something, but you don't know who exactly.
Especially if you know the time it happened.
rough pulsar
Ah shit. It overwrites the old log when you do that
sacred dove
fuck.
rough pulsar
Yeah, generally if someone's clearly fucking with the system to cause problems that's a banable offence and you can help get rid of pricks like that by reporting them, but you generally need the output log for it.
But now you know 👍
sacred dove
Now I know
lilac swan
What I usually do is take a screenshot, either with the camera tool or steam screenshot just as whatever thing I need to report happens, then I have a very accurate timestamp I can refer to in the output log to make it easier to report.
Just by checking when that screenshot was taken
pallid dew
hello there.
I am trying to figure out why my fps is so horrible
I get about 20 fps with about 6 people in a world.
I can for the love of god not figure out whats going on.
rough pulsar
Oh dang, you have a decent system too.
lilac swan
What world are you doing your test in?
rough pulsar
How many of those people have badly optimised avatars? Because you'd be amazed at how slow enough dynamic bones can pull things down to
pallid dew
idk but i set secirity to max
rough pulsar
So didn't even show their avatars, just the blank grey dudes?
lilac swan
Then something is very much wrong that shouldn't be
rough pulsar
running the steamvr beta or not?
pallid dew
beta isnt active
rough pulsar
I'd give it a go with the beta, just to see if anything is different
Also does this happen with any other VR software?
pallid dew
sacred dove
2018.11.27 06:30:30 Log - [VRCFlowManagerVRC] Destination was not set, going to default world.
This is SUS
pallid dew
so far i only had this issue in vrchat specifically
i also set launcher to vrlow
no difference
more benchmarks.
at this point i suspect its vrchat
maybe old config settings?
anyone know where it stores config files
lilac swan
#vrchat-support should have the necessary info to do a complete uninstall
pallid dew
thanks, lets see if that made any difference
lilac swan
If you head into a dead end I would send off a email to "support@vrchat.com" aswell, hopefully they'll be able to troubleshoot your issue
pallid dew
i asked for some support before but was just told to reinstall windows
which is quite the undertaking tbh
lilac swan
Yeah, that sucks
vocal shard
Are any overlays running like discord or Nvidia overlay?
They can be bad at playing nice sometimes
pallid dew
i never changed any discord settings and i believe i disabled nvidias one
vocal shard
Have you enabled the frame timing widget in steamvr and had a look at it?
Might give you a clue as to what is causing it
You can check a box to lock it to your controller to view it in vr
vocal shard
That does seem awfully low
rough pulsar
for a ryzen 7 and a 2070, there's something wrong and I think dropping an email to support@vrchat.com would be a good idea
I know a few with RTX cards and they run fine
gleaming patio
I have a ryzen 7 and a 1060 and i am running 90 fps in empty rooms
pallid dew
mb i should try running the unity beta
gleaming patio
And i go down to as much as 45 when in a room full of fully loaded avatars
pallid dew
full room for me is like 5fps
vocal shard
And the task manager looks ok for cpu usage?
vocal shard
That is strange
pallid dew
disc is bored too at 1%, and ram is half full.
there isnt any single core that is maxed either
pallid dew
highest core is about 45%
vocal shard
But I am in a 4th gen i7
vocal shard
Win 10?
pallid dew
yes
vocal shard
Then it should be pretty easy to do a reset without having to reinstall too much
dawn pecan
Be sure it's not starting with integrated graphics, give it access to all cores in task manager, close other rendering programs
vocal shard
Oh yeah
Right click the VRChat process and mark it up in priority
That fixed some stuttering for me
queen mango
Usually in Realtime or high priority
dawn pecan
Don't put it on realtime
Else it will run on higher priority than ctrl+alt+delete, your mouse, etc. As far as I know
vocal shard
I think it will just give an error and set it to high anyway
dawn pecan
"High" should be good though. But low FPS with good hardware is usually due to driver issues, if it's not that you somehow forced it into using less cores
vocal shard
Since it is not marked as system
sacred dove
AnimeShadow16 claims to be payed to crash worlds people are in
seems to be related to this whole business but
what I want to know is what this line in the log file is
"[ApiWorldUpdate] Sending visits with payload {"userId":"usr_911e2e42-55b7-4025-9aaf-1d8cbdf99cea","worldId":"wrld_496b11e8-25a0-4f35-976d-faae5e00d60e:84422"}
"
Is this saying a portal was dropped, who dropped it, where it leads?
If so this seems to be directly related to the crashing and the crashing happens always followed by- 2018.11.27 06:52:58 Log - [NetworkManager] OnConnectionFail
2018.11.27 06:52:58 Error - [VRCFlowNetworkManager] OnConnectionFail: DisconnectByServerLogic
2018.11.27 06:52:58 Log - [NetworkManager] OnLeftRoom
2018.11.27 06:52:58 Log - [NetworkManager] OnDisconnectedFromPhoton
Which means what ever they're sending you to can't actually be connected with
so it freaks out and disconnects you
lilac swan
Tells me user CyberConnect2 dropped a portal to the box world.
sacred dove
Ah.
That's.. odd.
I didn't drop any portals.
That's.. are they somehow making me drop portals?
lilac swan
Or you're in transition to that world
sacred dove
Either way I'm only trying to figure out which part in the logs would be useful to point out to the devs
It's always followed by "DisconnectByServerLogic" so I'm going with that
lilac swan
Giving the time, the more accurate the better, usually is enough
And sending the whole log
sacred dove
I'm sending the whole logs lol
and saying which line it's usually around
which is always "OnConnectionFail: DisconnectByServerLogic".
brisk umbra
Night peeps
true sky
imma hop in and find a way to get logged out ez
pallid dew
@vocal shard dont have integrated chip even...
true sky
just got an avatar with mirror sim prefab floating on my head waiting to get logged out so i can get some logs
still lark
@lilac swan Visits = online, I believe it sends every 30 seconds (and every portal enter, and every button go press) so it keeps your social updated.
If you stop sending visits you'll be deemed as offline.
empty wharf
I need to speak to a Mod in DMs if possible, friend of mine can’t use their email to contact the mods so he’d like to speak to any of them on discord
modern sand
We don't do that, it has to be email.
empty wharf
In regards to their Vrchat account it seems. But does any email work regardless of linked to their account?
They have no clue what email it is they have linked to their Vrchat account. So that’s mainly why
night magnet
just email the damn mods and explain which account has a problem
quartz basin
Oi!
empty wharf
They ask you to use the email that the account uses
And if you don’t know the email it’s big rip
night magnet
like i said explain your problem
flint ore
Geez, lots of avatars being disabled in worlds.
empty wharf
Yep because the public avatars are not optimized
median basalt
It's pretty cool
I've been looking at public world requests but something caught my eye
"The hands around his neck do not look like hands"
small wing
lol wat
clever pecan
wat?
small wing
they actually think pepe is racist which kinda aggravates me
the trihard emote is even worse imo and twitch still uses it to this day
calm swift
wtf not pepe
small wing
saying pepe is racist is like saying i could make anything bannable just by ruining it with 1 adaptation of it.
clever pecan
It's funny how well pepe's face matches being outcast.
calm swift
political correctness gone wrong 
median basalt
It would be one thing if they didn't want Pepe because of its controversy
But to actually take the stance that it's racist is
Dumb
To say the least
They didn't just take the bait, they rammed into it headfirst.
small wing
that is like saying filthy frank is racist.
its s a t i r e
the rage
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
floral flaxBOT
┬──┬ ノ( ゜-゜ノ) There you go
small wing
i mean i get it if the pepe emote had something to show in it that was racist like a swastika..
but even then so im trying to understand it all.
how is a frog racist?
i could put something racist on an ice cream cone, but i dont see vrchat banning ice cream emojis soon. so whats the deal?
floral aspen
it's racist because someone said it was
(not because it's actually racist)
the pepe controversy is one of the stupidest things I have ever seen
night magnet
its just some dumb shit because someone got butthurt there were frog pepe's all over the internet
and they dont understand
small wing
I feel sorry for the person who drew the original pepe.
hey guys guess what
The color red is now racist because some news outlet reported on it being racist
welp, i guess im out.
I cant blame vrc for not knowing, but i can actually blame the heck outta news outlets.
flint ore
yeah I though Pepe being racist died down
small wing
The one thing that annoys me is this acceptance to just agree when it comes to organizations.
placid zealot
Seen worse then pepe around 
small wing
You guys remember a certain party of lemons? 😉
that was never on the news.
but hoh boi
pepe
polar bone
has there ever been an instance where pepe has been linked to controversial topics like racism?
small wing
Only in satirical backlash
as soon as a news outlet reported on it being offensive people took it to themselves to satirically mock it
and that seems to be where the issue is
but its the internet, back to my ice cream statement. If the same thing happened to ice cream guess what. All ice cream emotes would probably be banned too.
polar bone
why does vrpill look so angry he looks like one of those free-smileys.de things
polar bone
No his profile picture
regal token
Does anyone know if there are any plans by the VRC devs to get clients to do their own IK calculation before broadcasting ? Or any other Perfermance upgrades of that sort.
small wing
@regal token What do you mean by "IK broadcasting"?
regal token
AFAIK cleints broadcast their point data, the server sends that to all the clients, and then all clients calculate the IK of all the other users.
polar bone
You have to calculate the ik for everyone, what if you only did yours and broadcasted their own to others
small wing
It already does that as far as im aware.
you can see what i mean when you look at someone closing their hands
polar bone
No?
small wing
they can control the fps of the ik on other players locally
regal token
? that doesn't make sense.
From people's testing they have concluded that your local client is still calculating full-body IK for people with avatars blocked.
That's not 100% certain that it is being calculated locally, but seems to be a good indicator that it is.
polar bone
🐢
small wing
Meh, believe what you wanna.
small wing
Neither am I. i just dont wanna waste my time trying to explain.
regal token
Ok.
median basalt
That would be a tradeoff
Either lag people with IK
Or lag people by sending them the positions of literally every bone in the chain over the network every frame
🤔
Not feasible
regal token
But there are degrees to that, so you don't have to go from one extreme to another.
I don't know how this applies to all those extra bones people add to a skeleton though.
Maybe it can't work :/
median basalt
It would only have to sync the bones in the IK solvers
But the way it's done now, you can update people's IK like 20 times a second and nobody will notice lag
It's a lot cheaper network-wise. Networking is CPU heavy too
And a pain to set up
regal token
How much extra data is it?
clever pecan
Ah that's definitely understandable.
Optimizing that sounds extreme.
Or difficllult at least
median basalt
Dunno how much extra data it is. A lot.
Instead of syncing the transforms for 3 objects, you would now have to sync at least 21.
Per player
regal token
I was think 6 versus ~25.
That's an extra 19 vector + rotation matrixes right? Roughly ~300% more data.
regal token
I'm assuming full body tracking.
median basalt
It's more data for sure, but to make it look as good it would also have to be synced a lot of times per second
Increasing traffic with more people
I said "exponentially" but it's really just 1 more to receive from and 1 more to send to per extra person. Assuming Photon doesn't already handle the sending part.
regal token
and interleaving the two approaches?
I find the tradeoff interesting as the current situation has people's CPU's maxed out when 10-15 persons are in a room. Trading off for bandwidth seems a nice idea at this point.
From my own experience I saw bandwidth becoming a problem at 40+ people.
rough pulsar
One of the things that I hope is possible with the unity engine upgrade we're on the route to is being able to offload IK calculations to other cores independant of the main render thread.
Assuming such a thing is even possible with FinalIK
vocal shard
;w; I really hope u can, haven't used u 2018 much, waiting for 2018.3f1 so I can just hop over my main projects to it
small wing
does any one here know of a good looking vhs shader that is vr compatible? I'm considering trying to make something similar to 98demakes September 1999 but as a horror experience in vrchat.
most of the ones i see are script based, which of course doesn't pass the whitelisted stuff vrchat allows.
And if not, i have amplify shader editor. Just need a push in the right direction.
median basalt
IK seems like something you could potentially offload to other threads, but it's pretty difficult.
Voice is an easier target
Since IK has to mess with transforms and those values eventually have to end up on the "main" thread anyway
proper escarp
How do I add a world to favorites? There's a specific world I want to save for additional models but the favorite button is grey and unclickable
proper escarp
I guess the way to figure that out is if you can find it in world menu or not?
But yeah, I think it's private. Thanks ^
spark grove
For some reason,there seems to be a weird motion blur whenever I move in vr and I was wondering if anyone knows how to fix it? Its giving me real bad motion sickness :-:
ember forum
only in vr?
floral aspen
I could have sworn I saw one of the devs say they already had voice and ik off the main thread when they announced the unity upgrade.
opaque hawk
frame smoothing maybe?
small wing
Just got a popup saying vrchat is not responding in game
servers dead? anyone else?
Asking here to see if i just timed out or something.
floral aspen
then go to a public world and make more friends
queen mango
Somewhere a little safer. If there are people in a karaoke world, join that
vocal shard
Pretty much anything other than the top 5 maps should be safe
vocal shard
I have shield disabled.
twin vessel
That's unwise
vocal shard
Simple crashers that the shield would protect against can mostly be prevented with just the particle limiter that we've had long before the shield system. I still use just that and haven't been crashed in months. Other crash methods completely bypass the shield system anyway
Most crashers are egotistical anyway and practically announce that they are going to crash you... Like a lot to announce it.
twin vessel
Not Crashers you dingus, just annoying shaders.
Zoom. Screenspace. Chromatic abberation.
Screenshake
Etc.
vocal shard
Ok... Than block the one person doing that... And leave the rest of everyone looking nice. That's more of a minor annoyance than a reason to turn things off for everyone imo
twin vessel
Assuming you can even find who's doing it.
opaque hawk
It’s not hard to figure it out.
twin vessel
You can easily hide what you're doing if you just say nothing, or don't tie what you're doing to an animation.
opaque hawk
Just go through the menu and turn people on and off
twin vessel
Ah yes, having to scan through an entire room of people instead of just using the shield mechanic
vocal shard
The standard shaders on players just looks so bad tho.... Whatever works for you. I don't have a problem playing the way i do. But you obviously have a different opinion
quaint forge
So there's no way to login to your steam account anymore once you've connected the VRChat one right?
queen mango
Yes
Steam account's merged with your VRChat account.. priority switches to the latter
ruby burrow
I find opting to turn most stuff off in the safety menu a bit excessive most of the time. It's almost like if trolls developed a method to turn off everyone's shaders, particles and animations. and it was stuck on permanently.
ruby burrow
Figuring out who is causing some annoying spam is rarely actually difficult, and far more viable in my mind than ruining the look of the game 24/7.
vocal shard
I agree
WHen I'm running OVRDrop and SLOBS, the safety system comes in handy
It reduces performance strain caused by VRChat and makes the framerate a little more swallowable
I enable everything for friends, but still
hasty wedge
standard shader 🤢
hasty wedge
vocal shard
Sure sure....
ruby burrow
Standard shader can look fine, and even pretty good on the right kind of model, but is horrible for anything intended to be toon shaded or more stylised.
vocal shard
i don't know why i was fine with people disabling avatars by default before the system, but using the safey system by ranks annoys me...
I enable avatars and voices for every rank
Everything for friends
it's insurance against potential crashers while also making it so that I can fully enable their avatars if I want to
minor pewter
I keep only avatars and voice on
hasty wedge
crashing is old meta
minor pewter
cus my computer is too potato to handle shaders or effects
and sounds are earrape usually
vocal shard
There are still crashers
minor pewter
there was a girl on a server who said she'd open bob on 3, and on 2 she crashed everyone
ruby burrow
I usually only ever turn anything off when visiting one of the typical top active worlds. Usually just turn off anims only, since that stops both spam and 99% of crashers.
rough pulsar
Turning animations off prevents them from even activating the crash function.
Assuming it's shader/particle based
vocal shard
Thanks Gallium 😃
rough pulsar
One of the best ways to not get crashed/logged out is avoid going to boring worlds
Like the box
ruby burrow
You're unlikely to find crashers out when exploring new worlds or such, and when you do, it's more than likely because they're currently casually exploring too, rather than looking for victims or flexing their childish ego.
vocal shard
there was a girl on a server who said she'd open bob on 3, and on 2 she crashed everyone
My point that crashers tend to announce stuff... Lol
minor pewter
props for being creative
ruby burrow
They go to Pug/Box/Presentation/AV-Testing when they're in the mood for that.
rough pulsar
And of course, whenever you do get crashed/logged out, grab your outputlog and report those morons.
rough pulsar
poor client security ¯_(ツ)_/¯
minor pewter
oof
das not gud
if they can deauth they may be able to get the user's login stuff
or token or whatever vrchat uses for auth
rough pulsar
I doubt it
If they do that's pretty fucking serious
ruby burrow
I have never once been crashed by a Touhou style bullet hell game particle animation. Crashers are incredibly boring and uninspired people.
minor pewter
yeah
ruby burrow
95% edgey or hip-hop nonsense.
vocal shard
The force logout is not hacking your client or anything though. Basically they make your client think it's getting a logout request from an admin and it closes. Its a trick, but no actual information is affected
minor pewter
another time some guy stuck someone up until he "gave him the sauce"
i got a clip of it in something hold on
towards the beginning of this
the monkey
i dont think it was a crasher but usually guns = crasher
there was a crasher in that lobby though and he oofed everyone shortly after the last clip
rough pulsar
I love how in 99% of clips like that it's almost impossible to tell what's even going on
minor pewter
all that matters is italian skeleton making pizza
minor pewter
yeah
open palm made a pizza and played the italian national anthem dooted
and some emote made it pinch and sprinkle little doots
vocal shard
hi
ocean bramble
2017 update incoming?
covert chasm
I mean, eventually, but this ain't it chief
ocean bramble
👌
covert chasm
Just a bit of hitting servers with hammers we're long due for 🙃
night magnet
inb4 half of vrchat gets clapped by tupper
vocal shard
unity 2017 is supposed to be here in 3 days
queen mango
It will come 
vital falcon
Is playspace not working after the steamVR update?
pseudo basalt
No clue, I used it about 10 hours ago
Worked fine still, don't know if there was update
cyan torrent
some people are reporting visual problems atm
rigid crescent
like
tawny elk
tupper is banning servers
queen mango
Nani?
rigid crescent
servers banned from VR
minor pewter
wat
naive pike
with out more info it's a Good?
paper cloak
so I set the resolution of the game to fullscreen 1440p in the settings window at launch
but it looks identical to 1080p
are my eyes retarded, or does it just not work at 1440p?
tawny elk
both are valid reasons
ruby burrow
Playing desktop mode?
tawny elk
it should be in 1440p
vocal shard
^
ruby burrow
Excuse the dumb question maybe, but you have a 1440p monitor of course?
paper cloak
yes lol
it's set in the options to be 2560x1440, but in screenshot comparisons
it's pixel perfect identical to 1080p
ruby burrow
Hmm. Strange. Just had to check. ^ ^;
I've no experience playing the game on desktop though. So that's the end of my tech support attempt.
Though, to be honest actually, I'd say you probably might as well leave it on 1080 really. The game already loves to drop frames, and is rarely high fidelity in a way that resolution would benefit that much when playing on a monitor.
*rarely high fidelity
umbral oracle
@paper cloak fullscreen uses the resolution of the windowed mode game. Have you tried launching windowed, maximizing and then going fullscreen
You can see this if you resize it really small then hit alt enter
paper cloak
I used the actual config window
umbral oracle
Would be curious if you print out the _ScreenParams.xy what it shows (you can edit snail's digital display shader to use _ScreenParams.y for a quick hack)
umbral oracle
I was doing that a bit to test issues with sampling _GrabTexture in vr (the fact that _GrabTexture_TexelSize.zw returns the actual sampling resolution while _ScreenParams is the final output resolution). In desktop they should always be the same
vocal shard
Anyone else losing connection over and over again?
queen mango
Getting the connection timed out messages?
vocal shard
yes, a lot of people are getting it. ppl are complaining in open mic night oof
queen mango
Damn.. I had that happen last Saturday.
Just as I was the only one left from the logout that happened in a public avatar world
That same day
ruby burrow
Not sure if trolls can boot people in that particular way. But pretty sure I've had the same issue when in perfectly safe rooms.
The method crashers use typically logs you out, rather than just disrupts the connection alone.
Though I might be mistaken.
rigid crescent
yeah I've actually never gotten it in a public
usually always either alone testing an avatar or with friends
vocal shard
Hi guys nice to meet ya n.n
languid beacon
Anyone know how to make VRC Jukebox Shuffle sync for all listeners?
vocal shard
Nice to meet you too ^^
Im new to VRChat and im already obsessed-
Lol
Its great isn't it ^^
Lmao yeah.
I wish i had an actual VR tho
Im only using my laptop
queen mango
Welcome to the Discord
vocal shard
Thank you!!
queen mango
And yea.. I wanted to buy VR as well
Since we're both on a laptop, WMR may be the best for the budget.
vocal shard
Yeah. I have no idea what that is- Because i am very stupid. 😂
queen mango
Windows Mixed Reality is technically an umbrella name for a category of VR headsets released under Microsoft's name
queen mango
6 manufacturers made their own VR headsets.. oof
Anyways, the manufacturers Acer, Asus, Lenovo, HP, Dell, and Samsung created their versions to be integrated with Windows software
jovial ivy
If you want a VR Headset that fits Vrchat you should get the Oculus Rift the Handmotions you do feel kinda real ingame with the Oculus Touch controllers
vocal shard
Rift for best controllers
Vive for best tracking system
Odyssey+ for best screen
Why can't they just all work together to make the ultimate system
Lol
jovial ivy
Tbh the Rift tracking isnt that bad if you get 3 sensors and have a good pc you never lose tracking
vocal shard
Not saying the rift tracking is bad. Just the coverage and number of things that can be tracked. The rift can track a max of 1 headset and 3 controllers. The vive system is much more versatile in that way to be used much more effectively
queen mango
Well, because the 2nd incarnation of VR is still relatively new in the market
We don't want something of a disaster like the Virtual Boy
Remember, their focus right now is to introduce VR to mainstream
ruby burrow
Just really need those knuckles controllers to arrive, and for someone to release an Od+ quality headset that uses lighthouse tracking.
(That doesn't cost as much as the Vive Pro... >_> )
The Vive Pro really does just confuse me. It exists, and it's expensive etc. But why the hell did they release it as a standalone headset, with no options to get it as a full set.
Means it went from expensive, to hugely expensive and barely worth while.
jovial ivy
the rather small resolution increase is just to get ppl with to much money to buy that and upgrade their vive
ruby burrow
Since the most cost effective way to get one was to buy a full regular Vive kit for 500, and then buy the Pro. Which is just a stupid amount of money for what's ultimately little more than a higher res screen.
queen mango
Increased resolution compared to standard Vive
Costs $180 more
Man.. I don't seem to get it..
🤦
ruby burrow
And you only get the headset for that money. Not the lighthouses or other kit.
rigid crescent
I'm not understanding the knuckles hype, minus maybe the whole finger pointing
for VRC at least
ruby burrow
Knuckles are pretty much just slightly feature improved touch controllers.
queen mango
The price woulda been justified if it introduced some experimental tech like foveated rendering
Which existed like 20 years ago, according to NVidia
rigid crescent
Until VRC actually implements usage, all the knuckles dev kits are for VRC are just differently shaped rift controllers
ruby burrow
Greater tracking range over more of the fingers + strap.
Nothing amazing, but does provide an answer to the touch controllers.
rigid crescent
and so far the usage seems to be animation based pointing, which we basically already have. It seems similar to how you can squeeze the trigger to slowly do a gesture on Vive
jovial ivy
i really like the idea of the oculus 2.0 tbh with the focus stuff where it tracks your eye and brings a specific spot to a higher resolution that the surounding part
rigid crescent
except for all your fingers lol
jovial ivy
could make eye tracking a thing in vrc
ruby burrow
Well obviously VRC hasn't implemented public support for them yet.
I'd be surprised if they haven't got a kit and been working on that though.
rigid crescent
They've shown a preview of them doing gestures for VRC
it just looked like animations and not actual finger "tracking"
jovial ivy
@ruby burrow as i said friend of mine has the dev kit and tested it in vrc they are getting supported
queen mango
Tupper says?
ruby burrow
They'll likely work exactly like the touch controllers, spare that stuff like the rock and roll gesture could theoretically be fully accurate.
@jovial ivy Ah, well there we go. Like I said.
rigid crescent
they are getting supported, there's a whole video on it...
Like I said, it's just animations and not actual tracking though
you point, it does a slow point animation with multiple phases depending on how much the controller detects youre pointing, not actually following the fingers exactly
it's just a bunch of presets, from what i've seen. Someone did post a video of them holding them, but to me it seems like it would be hard to gesture and do hand stuff at the same time
ruby burrow
Oh, yeah of course. That would be a nice feature to have, and viable to implement, but I wasn't at all expecting 1 to 1 finger tracking in VRC itself. Not right away at least, certainly.
rigid crescent
but that's something I'd have to see ingame first before it makes sense to me
ruby burrow
Other games will use it though. And people love to praise the touch controllers, so as much as I'm very comfortable with my existing Vive ones, I'm sure it will be nice to have that.
rigid crescent
yeah, i'm sure ofr other games it'll be pretty cool
meager solstice
I mean when steam releases their headset I think it’ll be good
rigid crescent
I can't imagine them being cheap is all, definitely not cheap enough just to justify swapping controllers entirely
just to point with an animation lol
ruby burrow
One thing I was wondering about, is whether the analogue nature of the finger tracking could theoretically allow all gestures to work like the fist/trigger gesture does. With gradually applying it.
rigid crescent
the problem with that is that it won't look good for all faces, especially ones that change the eyes and whatnot
natural "neutral" hand movements would make you look like you're having a seizure
ruby burrow
Just depends how much you open your fingers right? Though I can imagine issues yeah. For other uses though it would be incredible.
Being able to alternate between multiple sets of combo-gestures, each controlling an aspect of a particle system, for example.
rigid crescent
it does, but you move your fingers a lot more than you think, you'd basically have to keep them 100% static to avoid spazzing out
ruby burrow
Grow shrink, fast slow, more particles less particles, gravity up gravity down, etc etc.
cobalt mountain
man, i'd love for vive to release their new controllers, but that's probaly gonna come with the vive 2 headset which i havn't heared about in the last year and a half. also a knucke controller
ruby burrow
It'd be best placed on a Toggle Emote, to turn the effect on and off. So you can still gesture normally when not doing your lightshow.
jovial ivy
@ruby burrow now that i think of that that would allready be possible but you can basicly only change one option at a time
ruby burrow
Oh yeah, it's entirely possible. I do it already.
It's just very limiting only having one analogue gesture.
You can set the fist/trigger to do multiple different things for the other gestures, but only a set of properties for each other gesture you can combine it with.
jovial ivy
well you would need 2 animators on the particle systems in order to do 2 at a time and you cant really trigger 2 diffrent ones
ruby burrow
Hmm? How do you mean?
jovial ivy
hold on wait
gleaming patio
one for each hand
ruby burrow
I guess for example, I can summon a little flame to my thumb with thumbs up. With trigger I can control the range it moves away to, and float it around the room.
I could alternatively have trigger control the size/intensity of the flame, but I can't do both at once. I can't have a big flame float at a distance, unless I combine both properties into the same fist/trigger animation.
vocal shard
I posted that before on here
That shows what the Knuckles can do
And it's doing that thanks to an open source script
ruby burrow
If thumbs up was analogue, I could have distance and intensity both separately. Although admittedly it would be awkward to maintain fine control.
Actual hand gestures likely won't be anywhere near is smooth/easy to use as a simple pistol trigger.
jovial ivy
yeah
earnest harbor
I'm sure as development of them gets better they'll get proper support
rigid crescent
but the video shows they already have it lol
jovial ivy
the video is not vrchat tho
rigid crescent
It's not, it's just showing that it's entirely possible.
indigo fern
so like, my vrc likes to crash when i switch avatars
ruby burrow
Despite saying all this, and despite that video, my best guess is that VRC itself will just copy over the touch controller scheme at first. And the whole analogue gesture thing may not even get in the game either. Though you never know.
indigo fern
nah, it does it with most every avatar, just tried a nikei too
but when i come back, at least im the new avatar 🤷
ruby burrow
Clearly the game is telling us to stop swapping our faces so often and just let ourselves have an identity for once.
jovial ivy
tried to clear your cache ?
rigid crescent
#micfordevteam2018
indigo fern
!cleancache
floral flaxBOT
You can clean cache by deleting everything within C:\Users\%Username%\AppData\LocalLow\VRChat\vrchat apart from output_log.txt and config.json if you have them
rigid crescent
Patch Notes: Stop changing avatars then, forehead.
stoic halo
heyo
so my partner is trying to play vrchat
and their sky is like
fucked
its all sorta colors
like its failing to render properly
i think the mannequin is black too
jovial ivy
reinstall and also this is not a support channel my dude
stoic halo
where would i even go lol
jovial ivy
jovial ivy
hell no pls no full dive
ppl will get murdered in game with that crasher boys in game
ocean bramble
Heck yeah full dive
rigid crescent
Haptic would be pretty pointless for VRC unless you just want to get hit all the time lol
rigid crescent
Well, really it would be pointless in any game that's not single player or in a mech or other things
earnest harbor
the numbers of nuts getting kicked and hit 
ruby burrow
I will market it under the name of "Hat-Pat".
rigid crescent
collects all the friction of headpats and burns your scalp
ruby burrow
It'd be a product that would confuse literally everyone spare VRC players.
jovial ivy
better then feeding 100 hamsters in my basement
ruby burrow
For the regular crowd, haptic hats and gloves. For the lewd crowd, haptic lingerie.
jovial ivy
good point there
jovial ivy
astolfo bean plushies
ruby burrow
For when VR needs to look just that little bit more concerning for any onlookers that happen to enter the room.
queen mango
Well, aside from the awkwardness of wearing lingerie.. How would the neighbors outside react to the noise?
Implying there are next-door neighbors
jovial ivy
you would have to be in a constant i dont give a damn mode to buy something like that
jovial ivy
maybe it comes with a kit to make your walls soundproof
ruby burrow
Everyone's rooms are going to end up looking like wannabe Twitch stars.
ocean bramble
Show your neighbors what you are doing, maybe they are all in for the action
ruby burrow
And then you discover you recognise their voice, and they already were in on the action.
jovial ivy
depends if your neighbor is hot or not
queen mango
Yamete... You're making me get into the mood
jovial ivy
also 4:30 am bedtime xD im out xD
ocean bramble
Same here 😅
jovial ivy
go to bed xD
ruby burrow
3:30am. Got to go to work in 30min.
jovial ivy
good night peeps
ocean bramble
Yea you too 👍
queen mango
G'night, ye lewdies
Tbh.. I find the prospect of erp being enhanced with haptics much more enticing than just watching nsfw
gleaming patio
uggghhh anyone know what to do when steamvr just decides to stop working
queen mango
Then again, it's tapping into the sins of man
gleaming patio
when out of safe mode?
also every second restart is in safe mode lol
what it does is not recognize the lighthouses anymore, not take any controllers anymore, pretty much nothing actually does anyhting
also the bluetooth to switch the lighthouses stops working while not in safe mode of course
pretty much nothing really works anymore
whole lodge
Anyone remember how to fix the youtube players not working again? Wasn't there a file you download and toss somewhere.
umbral oracle
@gleaming patio I've been seeing comments say that the recent steamvr update broke things if you use advanced settings or openvr input emulator (part of playspace mover). You can try the patches posted in #full-body-tracking or reading discussion there if you use either of these to see if they help.
gleaming patio
ohh
now i feel kinda dumb for not seeing it
yeah that fixed dll fixed steamvr right up
umbral oracle
I think @sweet beacon just published it a couple hours ago so the fix is hot off the press. Really awesome work if this solves the issues people have been running into
molten hornet
anyone getting diconnected a ton in "the Box"
i think its hackers but idk its super annoying
And i have all things blocked soooooo
vocal shard
Avoid public worlds like that
particularly ones that are almost full
<@&397642795457970181> hey is it ok if i ask a question about an issue im having in blender?
velvet quarry
That is something you probably want to ask in #3d-modeling
vocal shard
thanks 😃
vocal shard
Can someone help me get to user role
I’m extremely confused about how this happeneds
pseudo basalt
It comes from doing normal stuff ingame
Just interact with people and explore around
vocal shard
I’ve been playing for like 2 hours
vocal shard
2 hours is really new
pseudo basalt
It depends, there's multiple variables. And they don't tell you what they are, but it's implied that positive interactions count towards gaining trust
pseudo basalt
And negative ones reducing it
vocal shard
So just friend request people
Basically, play, explore worlds, interact with people. But i think you're underestimating how many hours people put into the game. 2 hours is nothing. You might get new user at 20 hours, and maybe user at 80... It varies a lot
hollow sluice
Well I wouldn’t go spamming friend requests
Ive seen people join lobbies and just do that
People complain and may block you
vocal shard
They already said that mass friending people at once doesn't increas the rank as much.
#anime4life
Someone said linking it to my steam works
How do I do that?
hollow sluice
That is one way to help it
vocal shard
But how do I do it?
hollow sluice
You need to launch the game on steam then make and account and put the key in
It will then link the accounts and when you launch it on steam just sign into the vr chat account
If you already had it open close and re open it
vocal shard
I’m signed in on my vrchat account on the steam version
hollow sluice
Then sign in with steam i guess
Not sure how that works if you already have a vr account since i started with steam
vocal shard
Oh
If you didn't play on a steam account before, it's probably not worth it for you. The account merge is to transfer friends, and some stats to a vrchat account so you can get all of vrchat if you were a steam account player. But if you have nothing on a steam account... You won't gain much from it
I never knew it was going to be hard just to have a sergal avatar
It's not hard... Just play
You will get a notification
Don't try to "hit goals/fulfill requirements"
vocal shard
I kinda made my sona tho
hollow sluice
If you see someone with a sergal avatar just ask where they found it maybe they found it in a world
Hmmm can you not upload avatars as new accounts?
rigid crescent
You can once you get New User
which takes very little time if you're playing the game "normally"
pseudo basalt
@vital falcon Playspace mover doesn't work because input emulator is dead, but this seems to fix it https://github.com/sharkyh20/OpenVR-InputEmulator/releases/tag/SteamVR-Fix
neon vine
Has anyone been having problems with SteamVr today?
I cant seem to get it to work out of Safe Mode
It constantly throws it into safe mode and when i take it out of it, it keeps throwing up 303 and 306 errors
I swear every steamvr update it breaks my setup
vocal shard
I think a few said the same thing
rough pulsar
Have you updated to the fixed version of input emulator, if you have it installed? (or any other software that mucks with the vr drivers)
rough pulsar
yep