more? 😄
#vrchat-general-2
heavy shuttle
Sorry for my bad english, i am not english native xP
ruby needle
nothing wrong with it.
heavy shuttle
I am talking about VRChat. Theres are currently 7 hand gestures (fist, open hand, idle, finger point, gun, rockroll, and thumbs up). With The Knuckles i Will be able to, for example, make a "number 3 gesture" with 3 finger. My question is .. how will VRChat implement that?? Because theres only 7 gestures in VRChat, And with Knuckles i will be able to make more than 7 virtual gestures
Sorry, i am very bad at explaining 😅
vocal shard
They would probably try to keep the number of gestures equal across all vr controllers
golden bluff
Pimax controllers are pretty much an exact clone of SteamVR knuckles
heavy shuttle
Okey, but now the problem appears. If i Am a oculus user or a Vive wand users how i will be able to do those gestures if i already ran out of buttons and combinations🙃
golden bluff
Knuckle controllers are probably going to have better finger tracking though
viral yacht
Does it matter if my height in game isn’t the same as real life? I noticed I was way above literally all my avatars. I had to change my height to 5’9 to be in the proper viewing point
pulsar hamlet
my guess is that your hands will be able to do the gesture on knuckles but it's not an official 'gesture', so it can't trigger an animation
golden bluff
IIRC there are two variations of the Pimax knuckles one with a thumb stick and one with a full trackpad
ruby needle
@viral yacht nah thats fine even if that usually means something is not right wether is proportions or the general setup, but that is not going to be an issue unless you go FBT
golden bluff
So the one with the full trackpad would be easier to simulate a vive wand
viral yacht
I honestly don’t know what’s wrong with my VRChat. Ever since it’s been deleted twice off my computer it’s been doing weird things. I was using 5’2 for the longest time and it worked perfectly fine. Today I had to reinstall it again and now 5’2 was way above all my avatars and I had to change it to 5’9 to be in the proper position
viral yacht
I’m assuming it’s because I had to reset my play space, although I don’t know if that can mess up your view point in game
viral yacht
Yeah I had to reset everything on steamvr like it was my first time getting it
Maybe I should re-do it?
Or is it just not a big deal? I hope this won’t effect full body
ruby needle
Redoing wont hurt at least, but im not too sure about how important the hight is for FBT (as in if it should be close to your real hight) i only know that proportions of your avatar are important with it 
viral yacht
Recalibrating it fixed it. I am now the same height as in real life
livid gull
Was that problem in oculus or vive? Because if its oculus I will inevitably run into it sighs
rancid burrow
so can i ask why having a ton of friends is linked to your social rank and if you decide to trim the fat on your friends list you go down a rank
cause i was a known user and decided to remove a ton of ppl that add me on a whim and BAM im now a user
tall storm
It's not a social rank. It's a trust level based on how much you contribute to VRChat as a whole.
If you purge your list then that means you're interacting less and also presumably a security fallback.
All it does is decide how much is seen on you with default settings
rancid burrow
If im honest it feels like a kick in the shins tho i shouldn't be punished for just keeping who i know added
vocal shard
stone current
hey can u guys post avatar images pls
rancid burrow
this is just me but im just mad cause i make avatars with alot of stuff and i dont like to ask ppl to show all on me
stone current
i would use them on vrchat but i prob won't remember which 4
rancid burrow
alot of ppl i know block users shaders and particles and animations
tall storm
You don't have to ask them to show all. People are allowed to pick what they want to see and adjust accordingly.
errant vault
+ - just talks about their custom avatar and lets them brag about their hard work
rancid burrow
yeah you have a point there
livid gull
tall storm
And so far, i've had to voluntarily throw up semi-safe mode and generic everyone out because the performance hits the pits
tall storm
People who chat with me I reveal one by one
errant vault
+_-
rancid burrow
idk im just grumpy that i lost my known user rank
tall storm
There's not really a limit to friends list, and the game is still in development. If sorting is an issue just push ideas on the Canny
rancid burrow
friend tags like the steam friends list would be nice so you can know who or what added you
errant vault
+ - thinks people are just too scared about potential unoptimized avatars
rancid burrow
the groups where a nice nudge in the right direction tho
just sucks that there is only 3
errant vault
The winner for this year's Halloween costume contest is: Computer Crashing Avatar
ruby burrow
I am looking forward to hitting the trusted rank, since I'm likely not too far from it now. Just for the reliability that only people who actively choose to disable things won;t see me correctly, rather than all the people who just haven't considered their settings.
errant vault
+ - just lets their curiosity get the better of them if they are interested in your Avatar's full appearance
ruby burrow
What's this + - italic format text gimmick? '-'
Oh, it matches your name.
Just your personal thing? Fair enough I guess.
Was confused for a moment as to what it was supposed to mean.
errant vault
Roleplaying as one of my ocs
ruby burrow
Ah, and putting the + - in front is speaking in third person. I get it now. ^ ^;
tropic spoke
i think that being trusted doesn't matter much considering most people that see your avatars long enough to notice everything are your friends who probably have everything on
ruby burrow
It varies. When joining friends or longer term players, it's fairly likely that they all have everything enabled.
tropic spoke
another thing, even when you do level up, it doesn't make a difference to friends because you are the friend rank to them
ruby burrow
When visiting one of the more active publics, it's fairly likely that 50% of people there barely understand what the safety system is or how it works.
At least based on how often I've had to explain it.
tropic spoke
i think avatars uploaded has a large effect because im trusted but people with more hours than me by a lot are known/users instead
vocal shard
How many hours you have Miura?
ruby burrow
I was playing around with a novelty avatar I made last night, that basically does occlusion culling in reverse. Meaning whenever someone has direct line of sight to me, I'm invisible, but whenever I'm behind something or someone, they can see me. The avatar is painted to look like ghostly purple smoke when visible.
tranquil perch
i have shaders visisble from user and up. Its animations and particles i have disabled for most
tropic spoke
455h currently, around 300 when the safety system came out i think
errant vault
+ - wonders if peeps are still using Massive Watermarks on their avatars
tropic spoke
i put watermarks as small text textures that disappear at ~1 foot or in the avatar image. none of that made by blank for use of blank just version number and my username
ruby burrow
The result is that people with shaders turned on eventually notice me, and start freaking out as they gradually figure out the gimmick, whilst people without shaders just see me as a small flat purple avatar and wonder what everyone else is going on about.
green perch
ruby burrow
Which is fine. It's just more fun when the gimick is noticed in a more unified manner.
tropic spoke
mobile has a resend glitch i think
vocal shard
I kinda have a watermark... My discord group and my discord name on my back
But not too big
tropic spoke
i used a discord watermark for a week or two then i just changed it to my username because i constantly go inactive on my groups and reactive on others
errant vault
+ - is technically my Watermark but I present it as a power icon, he also doesn't care about avatar stealers
ruby burrow
I put a beating heart particle inside the chest of some of my avatars, as a soft watermark of sorts.
tropic spoke
also, something i made is i parented an image of my discord name + discriminator to the vrchat example avatar's arm and i can use it rather than writing out my discord. much easier than using a glitchy snail's marker
ruby burrow
Means if I ever see "myself" I have a means to check whether it's mine or just one someone else did themself.
tropic spoke
avatar stealing is gone i think seen as there isnt a cache for avatars (you do notice you constantly have to reload avatars right?)
tropic spoke
why do i have to redownload my own avatars sometimes even without being updated
errant vault
I haven't played vrchat in awhile, just waiting for massive changes
tropic spoke
either way stealing has been mostly patched
umbral nova
They changed the way the avatars load
tropic spoke
oh ok
umbral nova
Correct, they have implemented various security fixes, but cache ripping will always be a thing. There's no preventing it.
errant vault
Avatar stealers just don't have the resolve to make their own models
tropic spoke
i would think of obfuscating the avatar but seen as you need to see it the de-obfuscation would go through the client at some point
errant vault
They are jealous as Goblins
umbral nova
And the fact that the avatars load differently now doesn't mean that they're not cached.
If avatars weren't cached to your PC, it wouldn't be able to load at all
ruby burrow
Basically, the most common method of stealing was patched, but it's not really possible to 100% prevent it.
tropic spoke
i was thinking of storage caching, not memory caching
umbral nova
And actively downloading and deleting avatars realtime would run the performance even further into the ground.
Sure, it's downloading them, but not deleting them
errant vault
They can steal my avatar, I won't mind because they don't know what they even stole
pulsar hamlet
if your models redownload each time your cache might be full
umbral nova
So you still have to delete your cache.
ruby burrow
The simple old ID grabbing method was 99% of avatar stealers.
umbral nova
^
errant vault
Wait, what type of avatars are usually stolen?
umbral nova
Basically avatar theft has been stripped down to toying with the cache itself, but even then no one really cares enough to put that much effort into being a jerk.
tropic spoke
i dont care if my avatars were stolen seen as there arn't ever any of them around and the hud on my personal one would annoy most vr users and some desktop users
errant vault
I think they just want to see the owner's reactions
tropic spoke
id be happy to see another person as my avatar because they're rare
errant vault
The owners usually get very emotional
If they copy me, they can advertise my Avatar's existence
Hey look at me, I exist
tropic spoke
If they copy me, they can get annoyed by their non-anime friends
errant vault
I still need to finish making my remastered model of + - since I made massive changes digitally
tropic spoke
i do wish vrchat allowed local scripts like realtime clocks on avatars
neon flume
Yes please. While I can check my irl watch using the Oculus Rift Nosegap ™ it would be neat to actually have a watch on my avatars.
tropic spoke
if using oculus 2 beta you can pin the watch to your game by clicking the pin button on the wrist
neon flume
Oh right I forgot about that! I didn't end up using it though because of how it doesn't move with your avatar's arm. I don't expect it to of course but that's why an in game clock would be so nice.
tropic spoke
it moves with your wrist rather than your arm but im right handed so i never notice it
errant vault
I am still waiting for Udon so I can create an AI Battles world
tropic spoke
what is udon?
tropic spoke
ive heard of it probably will be a weakened c# or something
errant vault
Nodes
errant vault
I just want access to NavMeshAgent and find closest object
tropic spoke
i prefer line coding rather than node-link coding
neon flume
This video is where it got the official name.
https://youtu.be/sst9GZAZBDU?t=415
Admittedly I'm unfamiliar with programming using node graphs but it looks more easily accessible for new users.
errant vault
All I want to publish is a team shooter with bots
tropic spoke
yeah would be nice but probably laggy to run ai
errant vault
Most likely so
tropic spoke
also i think that the devs should release an sdk version without the examples for faster import times and smaller unity folder sizes
errant vault
With playmaker, I managed to get 80 bots to navigate in a map and capture command posts while using transport vehicles if too far to walk
They can enter and exit the vehicles
Either when they arrived to destination or vehicle is stuck
plush osprey
Bots acting like players or just ai thats in the world?
plush osprey
Interesting
tropic spoke
i'm still very new to unity and only know avatar work and basic vrc_triggers in worlds, havent gotten to explore the advanced stuff.
errant vault
I made a unit group script to where one of the bots is the leader and the rest of the group are the followers
6 bots in group A, 1 leader, 5 followers
vocal shard
Welp, better wait before making a world from scratch.
plush osprey
Are they only set for a specific world or can they walk around in other worlds?
errant vault
I used playmaker just to test out my scripting logic
The bots can navigate a map only if a nav mesh is baked and waypoints and objectives are present
plush osprey
Ah
errant vault
Too bad in vrchat, the bots may only work in their world
tall storm
So that means a world has to be made specifically for the bot
plush osprey
Gotta go back to work
tall storm
But with machine learning ...
Queue all those videos where they flail around until they finally path correctly
errant vault
I'll just use the x y bots as the bots and make armor and guns for them
rough flax
Remember when clocks worked? Then the CCO came in was like 
Don't worry, it wasn't pill.
vocal shard
Just got re-ended. Not gonna lie. That trusted rank would make me feel better lmao
Or a VRChat girlfriend so I could cry to ^.- instant dms
errant vault
Most peeps don't like distorted shaders effecting their screen and particles that drop their fps
vocal shard
Hey can I get some oculus users to DM me? I need help
languid beacon
OVR drop can pin web panels to your hand or head bones which will show in VRChat though always layered on top
Rash enough to put one on your wrist though
opaque jewel
Anyone friends with a Veltros by chance that has their discord?
languid beacon
But yes more powerful local-only scripting would be nice
flint vortex
plans to go to one of the events
dad takes forever to pick me up from school
I miss the event
idle mortar
Does anyone have a good video or source to help me understand how to add clothes to a base model?
shy nest
just use cats LOOOOOOOOL
rough flax
You can still use scripts on avatar 
raven mango
has anyone heard of a model resource website called domawe?
vocal shard
anyone know how to make vollumetric lighting?
I want to use aura but Im trying to make a game so i cant use assets
safe prism
you can totally use assets in games tho
why would assets be released if you wouldn't use them in your games 
for.. y'know.. a game engine
marble parrot
echo wadi
hello, i was shown you guys were doing submissions for the spookality event from the 24th to the 26th. i went to submit my avatar and the form is closed now.
i worked very hard on my avatar and now i cant submit it to enter
@modern sand
verbal helm
can anyone help me out my friends screen keeps moving to the top left of the screen and stays there when he tries to play on mouse and keyboard.
velvet quarry
@echo wadi #events is not the correct channel to discuss this in, nor should you be pinging the administrators unless there is an immediate emergency situation going on.
You appear to have misunderstood the deadline I'm afraid, the submission deadline was the 24th.
modern sand
@echo wadi We made an announcement for the time remaining for submissions, if you missed it, it's on you, sorry.
echo wadi
i was told it was to end later tonight for the submission form
velvet quarry
This was announced on Monday in the #announcements channel.
Spookality 2018 world & avatar submissions are open and LIVE until 10/24/2018 at 11:59 PST.
Whoever told you it ended today was not correct.
echo wadi
i was never informed by @ everyone
idle mortar
how hard is bringing a model with 130k polys down
echo wadi
im guessing noone @ everyone about this
velvet quarry
If you check the #announcements channel, you'll see that it was indeed an @ everyone, something must be weird about your notification settings as I and plenty of others were indeed notified about it.
south viper
I find discord's formatting of date stuff mildly confusing at the best of times
stuff from just two days ago is already "last wednesday" but "last wednesday" in my mind means wednesday last week
that, plus time zones, and things get really messy
safe prism
i think that's moment's fault
south viper
wouldn't be surprised
I think date handling in web apps is just shit tier in general. the server doesn't know your time zone so it can't possibly format it correctly without some kind of weird cheating, so everyone has to do it in js on the client
why hasn't someone introduced a header for sending the time zone yet
south viper
client can send Date? 🤔
safe prism
client can send anything
south viper
that's true too, but the point is that it doesn't
safe prism
doesn't mean server reads it :D
south viper
like if you look at what VRC client connections send to the server it wasn't enough info to figure out the time zone of the client
safe prism
time zones are already batshit insane anyway
south viper
yeah, they are. so are locales, though, and we have a header for those
safe prism
that's not normally sent tho
south viper
in real browsers anyway
safe prism
forgot that one
native geyser
Anyone know how long we have to fill out the spookality judge form? I'd like to look at more of the worlds before I make a decision but needs to sleep 
south viper
the discussion about Time-Zone: in a header has appeared on various forums a few times over the years but it seems like nobody wants to push for it
stone current
is vrchat down
orchid lodge
i think so
viral yacht
I don’t even know what to do now lol. Two nights in a row now, playing murder. These people join, no idea who’s friend they are. First night it was a little penguin avatar and they kept running on to my circle, only mine. Owner had to kick them from the game to stop. Today, again, another person. Keeps running on to my circle and won’t leave me alone
near sky
I've just begun receiving upload errors on my end as well. SDK cannot authenticate. Would seem to be the case.
flint ore
Is VRChat 🅱roke
viral yacht
Also I just got off, was working fine like 2 minutes ago
atomic hound
Vrchat broke
near sky
So we'll have to play the waiting game for a while
atomic hound
ye
flint ore
oh...
atomic hound
something broke server side
flint ore
so
atomic hound
got to wait
flint ore
the sdk didn't broke on its own
stone current
maybe the server hosting the website went down
flint ore
and i deleted the files which i thought they were broken because they stopped working...
god damnit.
supple bison
internal server error btw
stone current
xd
errant vault
While we wait for VRChat to fix, let's play Dead Frontier 2
stone current
bork at cars
viral yacht
There’s still a bunch of people playing
south viper
wouldn't you prefer a good game of chess?
stone current
yea but nobody can log in
errant vault
Dead Frontier 2 better
stone current
and api calls wont work
south viper
(old meme soars over everyone's heads)
errant vault
It's free
stone current
in the meantime vote ur local doggo for mayor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ghcGzwHXcI
hazy marlin
B R O K E
stone current
no
agile holly
Ummm can anybody else load worlds or change avatars?
small wing
Anyone else notice that a lot of avatars / worlds break the rules in the contest?
agile holly
My menu isn't working
small wing
@agile holly same
stone current
wat u mean roll
stone current
omg go to https://vchat.net
agile holly
ah okay
stone current
and look at the error
south viper
I'm hoping this is error code 420 otherwise I will be disappointed
stone current
its gone now i think but https://i.gyazo.com/8712ca373df5c1dfab30fcdac2067b93.png
small wing
@stone current I looked into a lot of the submissions for spookality and a lot of them are modified mmd models. The rules said something about submissions having to be your own content, so im kinda confused how that got by.
vocal shard
servers are down right?
stone current
i dont think a lot of them are
south viper
I was wondering the same thing. when the thing about submissions having to be your own content came in, my immediate reaction was "half the people will just submit MMD edits anyway"
near sky
Interesting error; not just a 404 in that case @stone current
near sky
I don't know how the server structure is set up internally but 
rough flax
Vrchat discord when vrc servers are broken 
stone current
^
south viper
everyone in
rough flax
Now I got disconnected
stone current
cuz if like
rough flax
Who pressed the reset button
vocal shard
Cant see my avatars or any in the menu, friends got disconnected
serene talon
yeah I just wanted to make sure I didnt have a personal issue with it, but it seems like its happening across the board
near sky
The hardest of the DDOS attacks; all the chat messages any time servers go down. 
CloudFlare can't even touch that.
stone current
mayb they sent a bomb to the server bc its democratic
true sky
scenic bluff
I was in vrc
hollow pond
smh
rigid crescent
yooo the discord is about to be bumpin
stone current
scenic bluff
then my character flipped when i teleported and now I'm here
covert falcon
lol
rigid crescent
they need to shut the game down every few weeks to force people to read announcements
since that's the only time they get here
stone current
scenic bluff
i was in a puzzle map that took 30 minutes to almost finish
covert falcon
@scenic bluff itll be alright just walk it off
cerulean dust
Nothing brings the vrchat citizens together like a good ol'server crash.
stone current
b0rk
scenic bluff
I can't even walk it off
south viper
wow harsh
true sky
calm it down
stone current
lol
ocean bramble
That guy
stone current
@restive lantern fix u attitude problem woof
vocal shard
dont booli tupper T_T
stone current
tupper -> pupper
rough flax
@restive lantern inb4ban
stone current
stay limp dong when ur perm beand
true sky
ocean bramble
😂
true sky
he gone
stone current
south viper
inafter ban
stone current
oof
gloomy sequoia
Mmm. I bet most of us should be sleeping right now. But are we gonna?
hollow pond
No
true sky
Nop @gloomy sequoia
agile holly
Nah
rough flax
Damn he got slapped before I got a screenshot
stone current
i wonder who bean
south viper
can't sleep. too busy "working"
topaz sable
sleep? whats that?
slate thicket
No sleep
vocal shard
Now this is a show
stone current
Several people are typing...
leaden dragon
I'm glad I wasn't the only one who got kicked off T.T I was enjoying being a DJ and watching a friend dance
south viper
Several people are typing.gif
gloomy sequoia
Hmm... No rest for the wicked.
stone current
hm
agile holly
I don't sleep I just wait until the sun goes down again
stone current
cerulean dust
Sleep is a ritual normies do every night.
true sky
its funny how WMR says proccessor isnt compatable then turn on insider and find out the pc can run it, but suffers a little bit of FPS drop
if i can hit 30, then 🤷
stone current
lol when ur friends fur shader brings people with 1080s down to 3 fps
i removed it but holy crepe
safe belfry
ayyy ¨💕
indigo fern
indigo fern
🐱
stone current
🤔 🤔
covert chasm
true sky
you need a proccessor of several 1080s for it to work if a shader can drop it to 3FPS
slate thicket
true sky
stone current
give
covert chasm
I actually don't know what server it's from
south viper
over action doggo
true sky
stone current
tupper did u boop the server 2 hard
calm swift
south viper
I remember early days in the company I work for where the network cable to the server was run across the carpet
not implying anything at all, but just saying
stone current
floral aspen
Bupper fix it
stone current
bepis
shy nest
just turn it off and on again 😂
covert chasm
The days of single bare-metal servers for services are long gone 🤔
well... most of the time
south viper
yep
stone current
thicc calculators
royal schooner
after i got the ping i poofed out of my presentation room rip XD
covert chasm
speaking of which I've been playing with Docker and it is pure magic
distant charm
stone current
i wonder how thicc an avatar can be b4 too thicc
floral aspen
henlo Gama
near sky
Docker?
carmine nebula
Since when does tupper chat on here
distant charm
yo tidus
stone current
wat is the amount of thiccness in meters until ban
weak hearth
The login servers slightly before they're fixed: https://media.giphy.com/media/pldlTsJkifRYY/giphy.gif
covert chasm
Docker is a computer program that performs operating-system-level virtualization, also known as "containerization"
weak hearth
Docker explained: https://xkcd.com/1988/
neon flume
kubernetes is cuter
vocal shard
i just did a high risk release tonight and it went too well. found where the bad luck went 
stone current
@covert chasm hire him for ur server stuff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ghcGzwHXcI
near sky
That. That sounds like it may actually be useful my way
carmine nebula
Tupper. Me me big scared for January 1st - 9th
covert chasm
basically, grab a Docker image, its a pre-setup "VM" "image" for whatever application you're using it for
south viper
doing docker stuff today actually, less successfully than expected
calm swift
why my pipi can't log in?
safe prism
I LOVE DOCKER
south viper
turns out getting credentials into a build is harder than it should be
safe prism
it's my lifeblood
south viper
I actually blame jenkins though
neon flume
Google made a comic explaining kubernetes
https://cloud.google.com/kubernetes-engine/kubernetes-comic/
safe prism
kubernetes is my bread and butter
plush osprey
hey tupper, saw you go afk in a world once :p
safe prism
and helm is my captain
small wing
1am is like a blessing for the servers to go down for me haha
of all times i was just going to bed
indigo fern
perfect then 
vocal shard
jenkins is a bad butler lol
south viper
our jenkins shows the oni jenkins page at least 10 times a day per person using it
indigo fern
literally the game telling you to sleep right now
weak hearth
RIP
south viper
today I have seen it at least 20 times though
true sky
@vocal shard easy to break the butler too >:)
carmine nebula
Nah I'm tryna chill with my girl I don't wanna go to sleep
weak hearth
man, Discord is poppin' when the servers are down.
carmine nebula
Even though I have to work in the morning cx
languid igloo
Well I gotta wake up in the morning. Figures VRchat goes down at an appropriate time hops to 🛏
weak hearth
O hay, I just logged in.
languid igloo
👀
small wing
time to sleep, but i hope everyone else in different timezones get to play soon
languid igloo
Nani
small wing
gn
true sky
bye bye @calm swift 
carmine nebula
@weak hearth logged back in?
vocal shard
git be like ok you can delete branch and jenkins goes wait aaaaaa
languid igloo
I'm in... Forget SLEEP
weak hearth
Yeah, menus are slow, but I'm in
true sky
im logged back in
languid igloo
🕺
stone current
indigo fern
🔥
south viper
lol animating the message
vocal shard
Lol n8
weak hearth
lol
stone current
south viper
is that a script
indigo fern
😓
true sky
friends list is empty 😦
indigo fern
welp, its been fun procrastinating with you guys 👋
carmine nebula
Oof same
stable jolt
oh nuuu
carmine nebula
Guys tupper lied
south viper
lol
carmine nebula
Ww3?
stable jolt
I haven't tried yet
true sky
charred siren
"good job fixing your servers"
stable jolt
I assumed
vocal shard
One message removed from a suspended account.
stable jolt
mb
merry canyon
mine worked for a good minute
avatar wouldnt load and my friends list was empty before the game just stopped responding
can't log back in anymore 
vocal shard
One message removed from a suspended account.
carmine nebula
Reeee
topaz hull
Oofer
serene talon
yeah dude
merry canyon
i need my 2 AM vrchat though 
floral aspen
!online
floral flaxBOT
There are 3169 users in VRChat currently
flint jacinth
fail
charred siren
carmine nebula
"Looks like I spoke too soon"
charred siren
announcements
carmine nebula
oof!
true sky
covert chasm
charred siren
covert chasm
Next time I'll learn to give it like 30mins
mighty galleon
<.<
covert chasm
🙃
floral aspen
Fix it Tupper
true sky
topaz hull
Rip tupper
merry canyon
just turn it on and off 4Head
charred siren
i heard alt + f4 fixes it
carmine nebula
instructions unclear, melted cpus processor
true sky
did they turn it off and on again?
merry canyon
time to obsessively spam login until it lets me in and inevitably crashes again
gloomy sequoia
Sneaking invisible around the world because it got my visible avatar to them stuck in the doorway.
carmine nebula
Pics or it didn't happen
true sky
runs to unity to work on a meme avatar
merry canyon
spoke too soon my world won't load
gloomy sequoia
Voice is also only coming from the spawn.
merry canyon
nor will the default home and now i am stuck in loading screen hell with no other buttons to press
carmine nebula
If vrchat ran on a windows 98
mighty galleon
then press all the buttons
carmine nebula
Have you tried sticking your computer in the microwave? The center is usually cold @merry canyon
merry canyon
isn't that a good thing
mighty galleon
gamer why does your name sound familiar
carmine nebula
I hear that a lot whitmire
Maybe I'm more noticed on here? Pfft I dunno
People are like I've heard that name? But from where?? Eh oh well..
mighty galleon
people are like that to my avatar xD
carmine nebula
Master what did you do this tiME?
mighty galleon
but its inevitably always just me walking around and they side glance me
carmine nebula
Literally me cx
hazy marlin
ur cute gamer face
flint ore
i'll finish the Kiryu pm tomorrow.
mighty galleon
my avatar is very recognizable
mighty galleon
ive never seen the error world
carmine nebula
Public world's are usually toxic or dangerous because of what's spread
true sky
same
mighty galleon
no its not xD
hazy marlin
I love it :3
mighty galleon
its so boring
carmine nebula
I'm in!!
merry canyon
oh my friends list came back though
hazy marlin
I STILL CANT LOG IN so i guess while i charge my full body ill go play blops ;-;
merry canyon
lemme see if i can join someone
would be easier but people always being in these damn private worlds
hazy marlin
you can add me Gamer and ill be playing all day tomorrow x3
neon flume
!online
floral flaxBOT
There are 2905 users in VRChat currently
merry canyon
big oof
coral vessel
oof
mighty galleon
woof
vocal shard
indigo fern
(Insert game ded comment here)
vocal shard
O.o
mighty galleon
been long time jamie
merry canyon
nevermind this world is empty
vocal shard
Yeah...
mighty galleon
-pats the jamie-
merry canyon
okay the person i joined like immediately died
charred siren
game seems undead tbh
merry canyon
but things work lol
indigo fern
Undead? like a zombie? 👀
vocal shard
~plays dead~
merry canyon
it hecking
reset my home world though
mighty galleon
-drags jamie to the dumpster- darn shame he died
merry canyon
smh
charred siren
cant believe theyre actually dead
neon flume
headless servers! spooooky
coral vessel
oof
indigo fern
10 is ez mode
25+ though
coral vessel
30+ is where its at
neon flume
drawcalls for daysss
merry canyon
blasphemy
vocal shard
Why not 40+
true sky
you can make a 2k poly model and have 20 materials and the frame rate drops badly
covert chasm
eh 20 materials isn't HORRIBLE, but it isn't great
true sky
its terrible if you run a potato as a pc
covert chasm
should aim for less than 10, but ideally you should only have as many materials as you have shaders. so if you use 3 unique shaders, you should only have 3 materials
true sky
its just an example of kinds of unoptimized models are out there
covert chasm
and if you want to change qualities within a shader (like color, opacity, specularity, etc), then you encode it into channels on the texture
dynamic bones are the true devil
cold talon
If(mat_count > 20)
User.ban
covert chasm
and if dynbones are the devil, then dynbone colliders are cthulu
rigid crescent
;-; i reduced my dynamic bone count because you roasted me
vocal shard
Lol
true sky
i have tried using cloth on skirts now and limit dynamic bones to breats, tail, and hair
covert chasm
good 
@rigid crescent
cold talon
How much more optimized is cloth compared to d bones 
To get a decent skirt for example
vocal shard
I want to try weight painting my skirt to the legs, and just have a couple dynamic bones for a bit of movement.
stone current
cloth better looking
rigid crescent
If the team wanted to could they just not allow cloth? i really don't see any good in a room full of multi-mesh avatars being as common as it is
stone current
dynamic bone is dynamic bone
shy nest
depends on the vert count for cloth
stone current
not a cloth
covert chasm
cloth is just as bad as dynbone
cold talon
Oof 
stone current
wiggly sticc vs like a tissue paper
stone current
cloth crashes way more often btw
merry canyon
dynamic bones scare me which is why i only put them on the hair
colliders are scarier which is why i get lazy and just
dont add them
rigid crescent
I wonder how much hate I'd get if I made a "hey can we yeet cloth?" canny post
shy nest
not as bad as like 20 separate materials
stone current
u gotta disable cloth and object at same time in anim or crash
and disable cloth before obj disabled or crash
covert chasm
20 sep materials is not nearly as bad as dynbone/cloth overuse.
stone current
shader abuse worse than both
indigo fern
high poly skirt with cloth
shy nest
thats the thing, they're both fine in moderation
stone current
3 fps fur shader
merry canyon
colliders are filthy liars
they look way better in unity than they do in game
cold talon
N8 no
indigo fern
oof, yea, those tessellation shaders 😓
covert chasm
right, but you have to establish that point of "moderation" @shy nest
stone current
cuz vrcat
true sky
and to yeet cloth, they would probably have to disable cloth which would crash people
merry canyon
my friends list keeps going from like 10 people to 2 people
my brain hurts
shy nest
I don't think I've ever had 20 bones dyn boned on one avatar
thick flare
add one in every part of your skirt
shy nest
I merge most of the bones because im sane
covert chasm
Keep in mind that by "20 bones", I mean 20 bones affected, not 20 scripts.
shy nest
yeah I got what ya meant :^)
stone current
so then thats like 40 bones
thick flare
i don't, care to explain?
indigo fern
does having more scripts affect it?
stone current
bones being affect by DB
covert chasm
@thick flare sure. Dynamic bones affects the bone you set as the "root" as well as all the bones that are children of that bone. Every single child of the root bone incurs a calculation, and that calculation is inefficient and expensive
So if someone says you have too many dynamic bones, what they're really saying is that you have too many bones being affected by dynamic bones.
stone current
cant u make ur own version so that it also set up to sync correctly
as part of the sdk
vrc_jiggle
lol
true sky
vrc_jiggle 🤔
half sequoia
people just need to deal with the pings lmao
thick flare
so for example, i added a script with head as my root, the affected bone includes the hair bones etc
so it is actually>1?
covert chasm
@indigo fern Having 20 bones that each have their own script is about the same (but probably a little worse) than having 20 bones affected by one script
merry canyon
jiggle 
true sky
too lazy to set up and not that good with blender
ocean bramble
If it's inefficient, why not make it efficient 
rigid crescent
multi-script looks so good
merry canyon
lol just make it not suck 4Head
covert chasm
@ocean bramble Good question, but there's a reason nVidia developed a whole architecture just to simulate hair (which is, at the VERY basic level, what dynbones is doing)
humble marsh
So when's the Halloween party gonna be?
indigo fern
ahh, i see, usually i just make a new root bone because its faster anyway
i cant be bothered to copy and paste the same settings over multiple strands of hair
covert chasm
tl;dr is that it is not a computationally cheap thing, no matter how well you optimize it. we are working on it though 😃
worldly vapor
Why have moving hair when your hair could look like you put a pound of starch into it 🤔
rigid crescent
im liking all the "yeah your world avatars suck optimize them" declines in the publi world list lol
ocean bramble
True, let's use Hairworks then 👌
covert chasm
So... a big "FU" to AMD users? 😄
half sequoia
Drinks in VR, with fullbody at the party
worldly vapor
AMD 🤢
half sequoia
thats my plans lmao
true sky
i wonder when in the sdk, it will warn users when there is too many dynamic bones 🤔
indigo fern
AM🅱
worldly vapor
It’s all about integrated graphics boys
covert chasm
Also Hairworks is designed for use with one or two "hero" characters on screen at a time. In VRChat, everyone wants to be the hero character, so you'd have 30 users all with the same detail, all in view at once
humble marsh
@half sequoia I'm gonna buy myself two of these https://www.amazon.com/Playtex-Spill-Proof-Leak-Proof-Break-Proof-Insulated/dp/B00OHKRMFU/ref=sr_1_24_s_it?s=baby-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1540525071&sr=1-24&keywords=Playtex&th=1
errant vault
That's my safe limit for dynamic bones
worldly vapor
I’m a villain
humble marsh
Perfect for VR.
shy nest
no more than 25
thick flare
so you are suggesting that we shouldn't use db for our hair?
shy nest
YIKES
indigo fern
Im not even the main character in my own life ;-;
errant vault
I'm + -
covert chasm
I'm suggesting that you should limit your use of Dynamic Bone to AT MOST 20 bones affected, and do not use Dynamic Bone colliders. Ever.
shy nest
yo deliver it to him
humble marsh
@half sequoia I use a straw to drink while in VR, it's nice, but there's a risk of spilling so one of those would be great.
shy nest
visit his irl world
brazen galleon
@indigo fern i feel you 😭
shy nest
make sure to dress up in an anime costume tho
half sequoia
lmao nah im in the recieve part of the building
shy nest
else you aint doing it right
true sky
@covert chasm what about hands using colliders?
worldly vapor
Yikes, are the colliders that bad
half sequoia
thats outbounds jobs
thick flare
how do i know how much bones were affected though?
merry canyon
use colliders on your hands
so you can touch the good stuff :)
half sequoia
they shipout
covert chasm
Count!
shy nest
you count the bones
thick flare
humble marsh
@half sequoia heh I used to work for Ikea 😛
worldly vapor
Idk how to count past 10
errant vault
1, 2, +_-
worldly vapor
Someone count for me
half sequoia
my friend works for Ikea
true sky
if its on hand, only need 1 collider per hand
true sky
vocal shard
just lurking
thick flare
my concern is on the hair
humble marsh
*the
covert chasm
@true sky DynBone colliders are awful. They are really, really, really bad. Don't use them.
errant vault
Thrinking
rigid crescent
why are they able to be put on avatars if we shouldn't have it :0
half sequoia
heck one of friends is making a ikea world in vrchat from Sweden lmao
shy nest
i assume because it adds to calculations or something?
rigid crescent
is it not something you can disable?
covert chasm
Because DynBones was put into VRChat when we had like 40 users. 😃
indigo fern
what about cloth colliders? or are they about the same?
covert chasm
@indigo fern The same
rigid crescent
I mean are they hard to take out? I guess it's not just an off switch or something.
whole lodge
But... how will the anime girls foddle the tiddies
shy nest
dynamic bone colliders are basically renamed unity colliders afaik
true sky
without colliders, you couldnt move your hair 😦
worldly vapor
Couldn’t you just blacklist the collider script or would that mess up all the avatars that had them before
thick flare
it would
covert chasm
Well, it's partially that it'd require a client update, but also partially that users currently have a thing, and even if the thing is horrible for performance, taking it away is really hard.
indigo fern
b-but i dont want the skirt to clip through
thick flare
it is ok, you took away chair 😃
merry canyon
people will riot over the fact they can't touch the baps
whole lodge
People need to fondle themselves, Tupper.
merry canyon
^^
covert chasm
Well, that was an actual accident when we included it in the first place @thick flare 😛
errant vault
Having the colliders on just makes things lag for others, just don't add too much
worldly vapor
#bringbackscuffedchair
half sequoia
soon as i get off work ill be testing to see if i can get on vrchat, ive got 2 more hours to go till iget off work this morning
indigo fern
i cant wait for fixed chairs 2.0
brazen galleon
"this thing is horrible why can't we remove it"
"because titties"
whole lodge
tiddies
covert chasm
But... how about this...
humble marsh
@half sequoia cool I'm from Sweden, I worked with manufacturing parts for the furniture.
covert chasm
what if you could see who has too many Dynamic Bones or too many DynBone colliders... 🤔
🤔 🤔 🤔 🤔
half sequoia
i hope you guys add back chairs on avatars but just limit the amount of chairs
shy nest
leaked
vocal shard
Damn then.... Cuz like, my two long parts of my hair by default point outward... So I used some gravity to make them hang down and have colliders on my shoulders so they don't clip through and just drape....
thick flare
or make it into the rank system
whole lodge
We demand two engines. One for each tiddy physic
half sequoia
might i suggest 4?
thick flare
limiting/disable dyanamic bone
true sky
another question is when will chairs be added back in to avatars 🤔
indigo fern
oh yis, isnt there something that can see other peoples bones already?
coral vessel
what if we could touch them? 🤔
covert chasm
true sky
it was quite fun
worldly vapor
Just make a cylinder with 50 diff bones and slap dynbones on it
half sequoia
i just said that lmao
merry canyon
or making a new jiggle physics system that doesnt suck
maybe one you can touch other users things too 
rigid crescent
i think taking cloth is more realistic than colliders
merry canyon
the future
rigid crescent
it doesn't really add that much
covert chasm
There's basically no "jiggle" physics system that doesn't suck in some way when you have too many
shy nest
not many people use cloth for it to be a big problem
errant vault
If my model has long hair, I just let my armature maintain control of my hair, I look up, torso keeps hair from pointing
whole lodge
Allow this dynamic bone to be interacted with by other players. True | False.
shy nest
dynamic bones is on like 1/3 avatars
rigid crescent
"not many people use cloth for it to be a big problem
"
what?
there's multiple EXTREMELY popualr avatar worlds that use it
whole lodge
Dead or Alive has an engine per anime tiddy.
covert chasm
Turns out hierarchical particle simulations are expensive when you're running 500+ of them across a scene 🤔
Yes, but you don't see any more than like 4 characters on screen at once @whole lodge
shy nest
dynamic bones are in every avatar world mic
floral aspen
I would love to be able to see who has too many dynabones. Would make it easier to pressure people to make optimized avatars or at least let them know they are affecting other player's performance
humble marsh
@covert chasm do you know if there will be a halloween event in VRChat if so, when?
covert chasm
@humble marsh https://vrchat.com/spookality2018
coral vessel
your eating my frames reeee too many boness
errant vault
What about those with over 20 materials on their avatar?
worldly vapor
Hanukkah event when 🤔
humble marsh
@covert chasm thanks a lot!
shy nest
and I doubt that most of them are optimized considering you dont need to do a bunch of shit to set it up like cloth
indigo fern
a lot of those fbt models use cloth and colliders 😓
floral aspen
While 20 mats is bad, it's not as bad as too many dyna bones
covert chasm
I'm 100% up for people gently prodding people to optimize and use less dynamic bones.
coral vessel
gently?
shy nest
just set limits
covert chasm
well, yeah. Don't be a dick about it.
coral vessel
nah u gotta beat them with the hammer
errant vault
+_-
whole lodge
By the by. Anybody know how to fix the anime boy lean back that models do when you go into full body with them?
coral vessel
u think people on this game listen eks dee
covert chasm
@whole lodge That's usually hip rotation
whole lodge
Oh?
umbral reef
Group pressure is awesome when it comes to getting users to optimize
But at the same time- There are plenty of assholes who know that it causes problems but dont care
worldly vapor
Now gotta make a dynamic bone police avatar
shy nest
who gives a shit if it breaks peoples avatars, have limits on how many calculations one user can have
whole lodge
So would I need to mess with it in belnder? @covert chasm
I've been messing with the spine and chest this entire time.
covert chasm
Maybe not, try rotating the hip bone forward a bit in the Unity rigging config.
floral aspen
@umbral reef if you've let someone know they have too many dyna bones and they refuse to optimize then you have an excuse to block them
whole lodge
Oof. Doesn't that make the mesh sink into itself?
umbral reef
Also if it fails cats plugin has an button to fix FBT things
true sky
Anyone seen nuisances in worlds lately?
floral aspen
CATS is your friend
true sky
seems they are starting to be more
twin jacinth
Seen like 3-4 the last week
umbral reef
@floral aspen But the problem is still out there 
coral vessel
gotta have a big bat on the police avatar that says too many dynamic bones
thick flare
they are forming a gang
whole lodge
Yeah but knowing how to have a model that isn't CATS reliant is nice.
worldly vapor
You rightttt
floral aspen
I have yet to see anyone with the nuisance trust rank
indigo fern
ive only seen a couple nuisances
whole lodge
Models that I use cats on still do the lean aswell
twin jacinth
too bad they can't do shit because the avatars are auto blocked and muted 😂
ooof
true sky
some of them blasting music and some trying to crash others and they cant cause avatars are hidden on our end
indigo fern
i unblocked a nuisance, he was just a plane with some weird picture on it, nothing bannable, just weird
whole lodge
A lot of them around. Had a chick pull all the items in the pub into one area. Destroying frames
Was trying to throw them away to save the room
coral vessel
backspace on it real hard
worldly vapor
Vrchat gulag
floral aspen
maybe he was just a plane when you unblocked him, but he has the nuisance rank for a reason
indigo fern
thats also true yea
whole lodge
Had another dude brag and show off models he stole from streamers via hacking into their accounts. Something something downloading their packages
I wasn't streaming so I can't report it.
coral vessel
big oof
indigo fern
rigid crescent
@shy nest I don't think the logic is that bad, unless 50 bones is worse than multiple meshes
coral vessel
to be continued....
twin jacinth
I usually just unmute them if they are up in my face to check if they have something to say but i never unblock their avatar
there's a reason why they are that rank 🤷
coral vessel
i dont block any ranks! equal freedom!!
floral aspen
50 dyna bones is definitely worse
true sky
one nuisance in the box literally showing off every avatar he stole and showed off how he could spam drop portals around users with a modified client.
indigo fern
i dunno, i know they have the rank for a reason, but i still like to check
whole lodge
Shiiii. I still turn off animations for Trusted Users.
true sky
and the user was a steam user 😂
worldly vapor
I’m brave soul, I don’t use safety settings
vocal shard
Shield is completely disabled for me
coral vessel
b brav
rigid crescent
Well, if the order is something like Colliders/bones/meshes, then cloth may still be worse because you've got, at the very least, two colliders for them
coral vessel
livin on the edge
vocal shard
Just particle limiter... Haven't been crashed in a long time
rigid crescent
does it being a different type make it not as bad?
indigo fern
oh no, you guys might misunderstand, the settings dont matter
if the player is deemed a nuisance with the nuisance rank, their avatar is auto blocked
true sky
when i get better pc, ill live on edge 😉
floral aspen
default settings for me
coral vessel
screw the better pc, lagging is where the party is at
rigid crescent
So then it comes down to "What's worse, cloth with a minimum up two colliders, or lots of dynamic bones" which I don't really know the answer to, I just know the colliders can be pretty bad
floral aspen
cloth and dyna bones are about the same
rigid crescent
Well the bones are worse than cloth, that's been stated, but dynamicbones don't always have colliders, cloth does
true sky
plus colliders on legs make the skirt more real then legs clipping through them
rigid crescent
Cloth almost 100% has colliders, at leas two
floral aspen
cloth also requires a second skinned mesh renderer
coral vessel
you dont have to put so much restraints on cloth tho
true sky
for cloth ofc
rigid crescent
So you've got the second mesh, the two+colliders, then on top of that whatver dynamic bones you're running with
quartz basin
Performance wise what's worse? Cloth or dynamic bones?
coral vessel
dynamic bones tbh
rigid crescent
You can't just say cloth though, because it's never just cloth.
You have to factor in cloth+collider.
rigid crescent
So actually it's cloth+second mesh+colliders vs just lots of dynamic bones
Those three don't usually exist without one another vs plenty of people using just the dynamic bones
indigo fern
mhm, so id say in general cases, dynabones are better
rigid crescent
honestly the more I learn about optimization the more I think cloth should just get yeeted altogether
quartz basin
I just want to know what I should be using. For example let's say I have a skirt 30 dynamic bones. Would cloth be better?
vocal shard
can I get a boneless skirt?
indigo fern
30 dynabones is very bad yea
rigid crescent
You're right, some stats on optimization would be nice. Maybe more "here's why" tutorials than just "Here's how"
coral vessel
should have 2 people within the same specs in pcs etc, 2 rooms 1 avi with cloth in one room and one avi with d bones in the other and have like 20 people in both rooms and which ever one laggs harder wins
indigo fern
testing things in vrc is tough though, even with the same setup performance still might not be the same
its just inconsistent a lot
coral vessel
how would you go about testing it otherwise though?
rigid crescent
because too many people would throw a fit at the few extra steps they'd have to take to have an alternative to cloth, they can't even remove it
computer guy with the science nerd numbers
surely there's a way to find out the exact calculations on how it works, it's just finding someone who knows how and wants to do it in the first place
"A second mesh takes up X computer points, cloth takes up Y computer points, and the colliders take up z. per dynamic, you're using n computer points" is how i imagine it but weighting on the bones could come into play as well
umbral reef
@coral vessel you would (to have any proper test) need identical pc's with identical programs running
rigid crescent
I just don't think anyone with that type of knowledge would waste it finding out how much processing power bouncing anime boobs takes unless they were being paid
umbral reef
And identical space over even for things
quartz basin
Bouncing anime boobs need to take alot of performance if not all the performance.
indigo fern
🤔
rigid crescent
they're an important part of our VR-Culture
indigo fern
The strange side
vocal shard
Lol
quartz basin
lewd it is, then
vocal shard
...
indigo fern
Nothing lewd about dressing nikei up as a lady
quartz basin
Depends what your intention by doing so are.
vocal shard
what category does your pumpkin nikei fall under?
vocal shard
Lewd it is then
quartz basin
Is that supposed to be a fart?
ocean bramble
Why not both?
vocal shard
Running away
indigo fern
It's illegal
warped thorn
Being cute and lewd at the same time is cheating?
tranquil perch
depends on who you ask
umbral reef
Its also illegal
tranquil perch
fail paste 😛
ocean bramble
Cute doesn't mean underage
vocal shard
^
quartz basin
Smacking people with a pan is pretty cute.
indigo fern
Depends where you smack em 
quartz basin
Stop!
indigo fern
quartz basin
No lewd thoughts on my server.
tranquil perch
