hardware

[orchid iron]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkqlXsKmn6I&pp=ygUgamF5c3R3b2NlbnQgZG9lcyBhaW8gc2l6ZSBtYXR0ZXI%3D

[dense stirrup]

My bad lab boss i mean 96gb 😵‍💫

So the 360mm has -5c performance is it crucial enough to make sure my cpu longevity or not lab bosse?

Tbh i still dont really understand what is realtime and not hehe, pardon my stupidity, if i just want to make cinematic video short movie photorealistic highly detailed full of ray tracing lumen all the effects and features ue 5.5 has only couple of secs. Does it mean I don't need real time? Right now all i can do is imagine things, if thats my only goal to make use of gpu, does 3060 12gb already accomplished that without any problem? If it doesnt, does 4060 ti 16gb can? Or the only option is 4070 ti super is the minimum?

[orchid iron]

most animations or movies you see aren't real time, meaning that if they were to explore their scene, it would probably be very low fps, but because they take all the time they need to render a scene it doesn't matter all that much if in real time the performance is garbage

So yeah, the 3060 is enough, and even if you don't like it because you feel it is too slow, then you can wait until the 5060 is available

[dense stirrup]

But when the process of making it and putting the camera in it, doesnt it need real time or not bousse?

[orchid iron]

Yeah, when you interact with the scene to edit it, that's considered real time, but when you do that you can severely lower the quality to make your content creation easier, and on the final moments you turn the quality way up and suffer through 5 fps for a last bit of trial and error before doing the actual renders which will look both amazing and have great fps

[dense stirrup]

I see thanks lab boss, i can get the picture now, so it means it can do the job without a problem its just a matter of fps not like having crash or lag or stutter?

[orchid iron]

You'll reach your renders with the hardware you mentioned yes
After a good amount of software tweaks to make up for the big demands
You could lower a ton of quality just for modifying the scene, and before rendering stuff out turn everything back up

[naive inlet]

Did I just see someone write they have 96GB of RAM?!

What are you trying to make???

Ohk I read the next msgs your good bro👍

[orchid iron]

Meanwhile others:
128 gb getting almost filled up by UE
multiple people here with 192 GB

XD

[dense stirrup]

Thank you soo much boussssssee 🙏🏼🙏🏼🌹🌹🥂🥂 you are truly a saviour, ive been looking for this info for so so long wether if i can make a short photorealistic like in the picture couple sec animation or it will need a really beast gpu just to take the first step, i cant thank you enough, wish you in a good health and happy always lab booussseee 🙏🏼🙏🏼

[orchid iron]

No problem, also does your place have frequent electricity shut downs?

[dense stirrup]

Not as far as i remember, but it will be safe if i buy an ups yes master?

Perhaps once in a year or in 2 years

[orchid iron]

It isn't urgent if they are rare, just something that popped up in the back of my mind in case the rendering take like 2 days xD

[naive inlet]

I doubt people are making games and animations at this point they are probably making WMDs

[grave sundial]

UPS KVa = PC SMPS Wattage + 50% and set to UPS mode, not W-UPS.

Remember these wise words founds carved in the depths of a neanderthal cave.

[dense stirrup]

So i need to buy 1900 watt minimum of ups? 🥴😵‍💫

[grave sundial]

That'll round out to 2KVa.

It's cheap, relatively speaking.

[orchid iron]

Your PC won't consume 1200 watt

[grave sundial]

Wait, why are you buying a 1200w SMPS?

No need.

[orchid iron]

Upgradability I guess?

[grave sundial]

Still, no need. Even a 4090 is happy with a 1KW SMPS.

[dense stirrup]

Ill take it as long as i still can make it without a problem just waiting for the final render, 2 days still ok but is it really 2 days for the final render just for making 15 seconds animation? How about 4060 16gb, be patient 5000 and battlemage will save me

[orchid iron]

It is a rough estimate, I have no idea how long it'll take, I just know it should be under 3 days for just 15 seconds

Probably 2 hours and I'm over thinking this

[dense stirrup]

I was preparing in case i really need a beast gpu to make that happen 4090 gpu or 5090, seems i totally wrong but its okay, it only different 100$ with decent psu 850watt

[grave sundial]

Then, make sure whatever UPS you decide to buy can support a cold start from 1.2KVa.

I've discovered that my 1.5KVa UPS does NOT support a cold start of my 1KW Corsair SMPS.

It goes into overload and I have to reset the inverter.

[orchid iron]

What happened?

[grave sundial]

But, it supports the computer when it is on just fine.

[orchid iron]

Oof

[grave sundial]

So, cold boot and on-support are two different things you need to account for.

That's why buying a more powerful SMPS than you need, might not be great.

[dense stirrup]

Based on my research you have to make 50% more watt than your pc needs, im still really a noob with pc world, and theres so many gpu problems or risk reported so i just take the safest way 1200w 3.1 if i want to upgrade gpu it should be safe enough

[orchid iron]

You'll be able to upgrade to a 6090 maybe xD

[grave sundial]

Then, if you go with a 1.2KW SMPS, you'd need a 2KV Online UPS.

Don't go for anything less, or.... 😓

And make sure it supports a cold boot with your SMPS before you purchase it.

You can also find an old granny neighbour who has a 2KV UPS, because she runs a meth garden or something, and then..... 🧱

[orchid iron]

Old granny with a meth garden xD
Ah that reminds me a funny comedy movie I saw the trailer of

[grave sundial]

I was about to say, "Find that granny," with a shovel emote, but we don't have one, so...

[dense stirrup]

Hahahahahahahahaha

[dense stirrup]

Is this ok?

[grave sundial]

I think it'll be.

If it's allowed in your region, try asking the store owner to let you test it on your SMPS.

You don't need any connected components. Just plug the SMPS in to the UPS (if it's charged), disconnect UPS from main power, and turn the SMPS on.

If the UPS doesn't care about that initial power-on moment (cold start), and functions normally, you're good to go.

The capacity and wattage are enough to support your computer while it's running, no problem.

Also, as I mentioned before, if there's an option / switch on the UPS, letting you choose UPS and W-UPS mode, always set it to UPS mode.

[orchid iron]

@grave sundial how unstable is your electricity?

[grave sundial]

Fairly.
We are building 6 new sub-stations in my district and everyone's gorging power like Chaos minions.

The transformers explode sometimes, too.

[orchid iron]

Okay yeah, makes sense you clearly knew a lot more about UPS than the average person

[grave sundial]

There's also the switch in the morning from coal/nuclear to solar power.

Which is NOT seamless. 🤣

[orchid iron]

Yikes

[grave sundial]

For some idiotic reason, they haven't figured out how to deliver the load from solar seamlessly without MASSIVE fluctuations.

That settles down after 5 minutes; sometimes, 15 minutes.

[orchid iron]

That's super dangerous

Hospitals can have their equipment fried

[grave sundial]

Yep. Houses without stabilizers have blown TVs, refrigerators, etc. etc.

Hospitals and my house have stabilizers.

So, no problem.

The fridge, AC, and TV have SEPARATE stabilizers in addition to the main one.

[orchid iron]

That's so garbage, just to make a point about solar power not being trash

[grave sundial]

I don't think it's the solar power so much as whatever tech they are using during the handover from conventional energy.

Like in the evenings, when they go from solar to coal/nukes, there are no fluctuations.

[orchid iron]

Yeah, if you have an idea, you gotta make it work properly IRL

[grave sundial]

No, no. In India, if we can save money and cut electricity, we do it first and fix the problems later.

This is just and proper.

You can pay to repair your TVs and fridges yourself. 😄

[orchid iron]

That's so infuriating

[grave sundial]

Even more so with finicky, power-hungry computers.

[median marsh]

i'm pretty convinced that you just can't "turn off" a nuclear power plant when the sun gets out and turn it back on in the afternoon

[orchid iron]

Don't worry, it is the power of solar power, just believe in it

[grave sundial]

Don't be silly. We do it all the time.
https://media.tenor.com/fF2hHLdZLJMAAAAM/homer-simpson-nuclear-meltdown-stopped-by-fluke.gif

[median marsh]

i really wonder how economical that is

[delicate crystal]

Ah that's my mistake. Was wodnering if he was as I'd love to know the spec. It's something I'd want to do when I upgrade

[orchid iron]

the 6090 when it comes out will probably achieve that xD

[dry pecan]

hello, is 2tb for a separate ssd for unreal / game project enough?

[delicate crystal]

ouch guess I'm waiting a while

[orchid iron]

depends of the scale of your project, how big are the assets you want to use?

[dry pecan]

low-ish poly, something like in ps2

so assets shouldn't be too large

[orchid iron]

my 5.3 unreal engine on linux compiled from source code is about 122 gb

a blank unreal engine project is about 1-2 gb

a lightweight ide like vs code is also a few gb big

that's why I was asking about your assets because those will usually be the biggest factor in any projects

[dry pecan]

good to know, yeah I thought something else other than assets would take like hundreds of gbs lol, 2tb seems pretty much enough, thanks!

[orchid iron]

np

[delicate crystal]

This is good information. Sounds like that 24tb server I have might be useful after all

[orchid iron]

got those good 8k textures?

[delicate crystal]

working on it 😄 Nah just more there would be a lot of assets for the silly project I was thinking of

[orchid iron]

oh okay, yeah a few millions of 4k textures and 100k+ poly meshes are all pretty important

[obtuse rapids]

Thinking of building a SFF system. FML I'd rather get a laptop but I just can't justify the cost. I just hate remoting in (which is what I will have to do with the SFF system, bit of a unique situation) ...parsec let's use send all keys right?

Anyway, anyone got some good SFF builds?

[median marsh]

if you remote in anyways a cheap laptop is good enough?

if you really want a SFF system, look at lenovo thinkcentre tiny m910q

[orchid iron]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uspnbaTKFP0

Like this?

[obtuse rapids]

It occurred to me that maybe people in this channel have different standards than I do. I remember I actually learned Unreal and built my VR product in a Sager Gaming laptop purchased in 2014 - it was a 4th Generation Intel® Haswell Core™ i7-4700MQ with two crossfire 8970ms (4 gb each) - and while it wasn't a dream system, it got the job done.

Maybe I need to lower my mobile standards a bit

Incidentally, that laptop still runs great and I've opened it up a bunch (main GPU died and I had to switch the "spare" I had in there) -

[median marsh]

well you said that you remote in anyways, so i've concluded that you don't plan on using Unreal on that machine (their gpu is probably the weakest spot) other than that you can get them with up to i5 6x3.4GHz/i7, 32GB RAM and nVME SSD

[obtuse rapids]

I'm trying to decide if the performance boost is worth the hassle and limitations of having to babysit this SFF system and remoting in always has hiccups to deal with. Just having a laptop that, worst case scenario, just needs an outlet, is so much more damn convenient

[orchid iron]

You can also get a framework laptop, if a part breaks, you can dismantle it yourself, buy a replacement part from them and put it back together

Additionally you could even upgrade it with a different motherboard or cpu, maybe even the screen etc

[obtuse rapids]

I've considered it - I wish another year or two had passed

[orchid iron]

Time machine time!

brings a baseball bat

Ready for one way time travel?

[grave sundial]

So long as we can find plutonium to power the time machine to reach 142km/h.

[orchid iron]

I got some pentiums laying around, we good xD

[orchid iron]

I just implusively bought 12tb, now I understand, sorry I made some light hearted fun about it

[delicate crystal]

Lol all good

I keep debating what the hell to.do with the thing. Bought itnforna job i was laid off from two weeks later. And servers are a pain to sell. Thing has like 512gb of ram and like 50 cores so thought itd be a good build system or something but not sure

[orchid iron]

Before selling it, I'm actually curious about 1 thing, how fast would the loading times of a game would be if all its files are located in the ram (I looked up online you could create a fake drive which uses RAM storage)

[delicate crystal]

Thats a good question. Id assume itd depend on a few things but id ve surpriaed if the ram on that is faster then a modern ssd drive

Think its about 3 to 5 years old?

[orchid iron]

perhaps it is faster, can you equip the server with a gpu and try it out xD

maybe matching the number of ram sticks with the number of memory channel so they can go full speed

[leaden narwhal]

Please recommend a budget hardware setup for producing 3D animated shorts using UE5.5 working solo and not on a team.
Focus on fast iteration then a nice final render after all the iterations.

I think my budget is going to be around $1,600 USD

For the PC not including the new monitor(s) I will need

[orchid iron]

if you can wait a few months, please do, because there is some really good mid tier GPUs coming Q1 of 2025 from Nvidia, Amd and Intel

also are you in the US or outside of it? If you are outside do you know an online retail you could order from? Would help out more to know "regional prices" since those may vary from country to country

[leaden narwhal]

I had a notion q1 2025 would be better for GPU purchasing. I am in the US. Last build I did was parts from NewEgg and Tiger Direct 11 years ago. Everything worked flawlessly until 9 days ago and suddenly one morning it wont turn on. PSU tested fine when removed from the motherboard but when the onboard (not case) powerbutton is pressed then the PSU fan barely moves and only for a moment. Not enough to complete even one full revolution. Not other signs of life)

So I kept saying before this happened that if I buy a new computer I want it to be fancy enough to use for rapidly producing speculative fiction narrative animations as a solo creator, but not break the bank as I am between jobs right now. Was making 6 figures and dont have that kind of resume in anything but Netsuite.

So that's why it is to be a budget build but not TOO frugal.

[orchid iron]

does your psu have a zero rpm mode?

as in if it is barely used it sets the fan speed to zero

also right now everything is kinda guess work at what will be the best price to performance gpu, so right now you could basically only part pick without the gpu so you'd end up with a full build and a "GPU budget"

@leaden narwhaldo you also have a micro center near you? They have really good deals

now that I think about it, maybe part picking should be done really soon because once cyber monday ends (2nd of december) the parts will likely rise in price until late Q1 2025, so up to you if you wanna do it right now or a few months later
Edit: forgot about incoming tariffs, maybe prices will never be as low as right now xD

[orchid iron]

In case you wanna PC part pick early, when will you be up for it?

[little granite]

need some advice on a graphics tablet. Used to workhorse a wacom cintiq 13hd. last year or so i upgraded to a huion kamvas pro 2.5k 16 inch tablet. its n obvious leap in hardware, but its very slidey/slippy compared to my old wacom. even with a matte screen protector and felt nibs, its just very difficult for fine control.

Are there any other ways I can make the surface have more resistance, or am I snookered?
I had thought about a cintiq 16, but it says the specs are a lot worse, and idk if the screen would be the same as the 13hd

[leaden narwhal]

I bet the tariffs will be nice to Taiwan though

[delicate crystal]

The memory sticks are maxed for that system so ther'es that. I wonder if that server can fit a gpu

I'm expecting the tarriffs are going to bend Canada over

[leaden narwhal]

I think my motherboard and/or CPU might be shot because the pc speaker never beeps. I removed all parts and connections including RAM, except the PSU to motherboard connections, the CPU and CPU fan and its connector, and the pc speaker. No signs of POST occurring or any power whatsoever to the mboard. PSU tester spins the PSU fan at low speed and reports PSU is normal power levels on all connectors.

Since I think mboard is dead my purchase strategy should probably be to pick parts now and get new case, mboard, and CPU with fan, probably new PSU, but reuse surviving parts from my dead computer until I get a new job. My current RAM and storage are decent. I want to make it possible to upgrade to a really nice GPU as soon as my income is restored.

[orchid iron]

Alright, are you up for a VC to talk about PC parts?

[leaden narwhal]

Perhaps once I have made breakfast for the little ones. Wife is sick this morning.

[orchid iron]

All good, I don't think I would of been online right away, will you be on in a few hours?

[leaden narwhal]

In a few hours might work. Thanks 🙂

[orchid iron]

Alright, I'll ping you when I'm available

[leaden narwhal]

Or should we wait until Monday? Does cyber Monday start then?

[orchid iron]

Cyber Monday is just additional time of Black friday

[leaden narwhal]

In this I have revealed to you that I seldom shop for anything. So it sounds like I can get cyber Monday deals from now until December. Nice.

[agile lodge]

https://x.com/IntelGaming/status/1862859173207113798

Intel Gaming (@IntelGaming) on X

We’ve got some big graphics news 👀…

Twitter · Nov 30, 2024, 2:00 PM

battlemage GPUs coming

[delicate crystal]

i keep thinking i'm missing something for black friday/cyber monday, but the deals ehre are terrible

always stuff that was state of the art like five years ago

[swift harness]

I got 500-600 dollars. What the best replacement laptop I can get?

[orchid iron]

Depends what do you want to do, programming, 3rd asset creation, video editing etc
And also do you want to be able to repair it yourself? (Cough cough framework)

[orchid iron]

||Intel's last dedicated GPUs||

[leaden narwhal]

Thank you again for being so willing to help me plan this out. After further consideration I have decided to wait until I have more solid plans for how I will use the new computer, and for the time being put all the old machine's hard drives into external enclosures to make my stuff accessible to the other family computer we have. That one is a bit newer and more powerful anyway, but takes ages to boot up.

[orchid iron]

Does it have an HHD as a boot drive?

[leaden narwhal]

Used to. I migrated the original boot drive to an SSD and use the old HDD as extra storage along with 2 more HDDs I bought later.

[orchid iron]

If it is still slow even though it uses an ssd, make sure it has over 25% of free capacity, some ssd become massively slow the more you fill them

Also I'll be online in about 10-15 minutes, if you want we can just talk about general PC hardware stuff, not actually buying

[leaden narwhal]

Oh i was talking about my dead compyter not the working slow one. The working slow one has only one 1TB hdd drive and no other storage.

[leaden narwhal]

I was thinking about setting it up for dual boot with my broken compy's SSD but I dont know if it's worth trying to put an additional drive inside the Asus RoG G20 case.

Even though the SSD is much smaller physically than the HDD and would probably fit. I heard it's very hard to plug in anything on those chassis.

[orchid iron]

I highly reccomend making the SSD the boot drive, not just for booting up times, but just for general system usage, everything is so much faster and feels better

[leaden narwhal]

Indeed. That has been my experienxe with the now-broken computer when I migrated it to SSD

[leaden narwhal]

I am in that VC for a few mins

So my strategy will probably be to install my broken computer's ssd into the working computer and configure UEFI to allow user to select which drive to boot from at POST.
Then put my other 3 HDDs into usb3 enclosures and plug them into the back to access my broken computer's stuff like photos and home videos and my.novel writing project. I am frugal to a fault and refuse to pay subscription for cloud storage lol

I got everything on a Tailscale mesh vpn network so i can access my computer files and streaming servers (includong game streaming) from anywhere with various degrees of performance and quality.

(Left VC)

[orchid iron]

Don't worry, I got overwhelmed by IRL stuff that I didn't expect, sorry about that

[orchid iron]

I think if you spam press a function key (F2, F10, F12 depends on mobo) you can select which device/partition to boot from

[leaden narwhal]

F2 or del on this one. I think there is a way to have it prompt the user without f2 though so i will try to get that going after I figure out how to crack open this difficult g20 case

[orchid iron]

Oh my, that looks like a nightmare

[orchid iron]

F2 is likely for entering the BIOS and change settings like default boot partition, but there is usually another function key F10 or F12 to actually select the boot drive/partion

Also, I'll be honest, the case seems so bad to do anything with it, I'd personally run your system in open air

[leaden narwhal]

Yeah its a terrible time getting it open in The first place

[median marsh]

F8/F10 usually

[swift harness]

Unreal solo dev. Character tri count is ~ 1200 per character.

[orchid iron]

Alright, still vague but I'd reccomend a laptop with a dedicated GPU
Are you in the US to get US prices or outside of it?
Because if you are outside I'd reccomend waiting to get a higher budget since anything hardware outside of US feels overpriced

Additionally, is a laptop a must, or would a mini PC / small form factor also be suitable for you?

[swift harness]

I am in america. I would prefer a laptop.

[lyric saddle]

Yeah keep in mind laptops are pretty trash compared to pc's my 2700 laptop gets smoked by my 1700 euro pc

[fallen oasis]

Just be thankful it's not a mac, then it'd be a 3700 laptop being smoked by a (1)700 euro pc.

[leaden narwhal]

Oh no... I hope i didnt short something in my stepson's computer. Hope I didnt force anything trying to take.it apart or put it back together. It wont output anythi g to the display now, and it is rather quick to shut down, sometimes without pressing the power button

[devout pendant]

Any suggestions for an upgrade from an RTX 2070? And are AMD cards as bad as I’ve read about?

[mighty patrol]

I owned one of these years ago there's clasps on the corners to pry off and peel the panels off.

It has laptop power supply and memory.

So it is bottlenecked typically by power.

[mighty patrol]

This was the video I followed, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6w3H84lmt70

[orchid iron]

https://www.amazon.com/i5-13420H-Processor-GeForce-Display-ANV15-51-51H9/dp/B0CP8D4SM2

this is a pretty bad laptop, but the best choice I could find which has a dedicated GPU

https://blog.acer.com/en/discussion/1855/how-to-upgrade-your-acer-nitro-5-laptop-s-ram

at least you may be able to upgrade its ram later on (which is the weakest part about it)

https://www.amazon.com/HP-Anti-Glare-i5-12450H-i7-11800H-Accessory/dp/B0DD32T8DG

there is also this, but I don't think it is that easily upgradable

[orchid iron]

they were bad due to rough drivers compared to nvidia, but for several years the drivers have been on par or better than nvidia

and what is your budget for GPU upgrade?

[lyric saddle]

Nah amd cards are pretty good i run one daily myself raytracing is Just a better on nvidia cards in general and cuda makes it better for ml but in general would say amd is better for example with the xt 7900 you get 20gb of gpu memory and ncidia doesn t come near that for the same price

[orchid iron]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0pomC1CfpC0

This was so bad, GN made a " permanently banned from ever getting ad placements in their video" list with nzxt in it

[agile lodge]

https://www.plainconcepts.com/maximizing-ai-performance-intel-arc-a770-gpu/

[orchid iron]

Bruh why

[agile lodge]

becase intel cards are best of the best

intel cards are good for ai tasks

[orchid iron]

Okay cool, you are absolutely correct in assuming everyone here loves AI

[agile lodge]

you hate intel a lot it comes to ytour responses a lot

[leaden narwhal]

Mine is a g20cb. Very similar but no clasps and the power supply delivers 650W if i remember correctly. I didnt realize the cover just slides off so I made the mistake of trying to break the panels apart with a kitchen knife. Pretty dumb, but I doubt the knife actually damaged any parts inside.

There is a spare SATA port under the DVD drive with a power lead just hanging there ready to go. The space above the DVD drive is barely big enough for my SSD if I remove the front metal bracket adjacent to the front panel of the case. So I put the SSD there. Had to remove the CPU fan assembly and the DVD drive to be able to lift away enough of the metal framework just high enough to get the sata cable into the socket on the mainboard.

As I was doing this I kept trying to lift up the black fin array but it wouldnt move. I hope i didnt force it too much and I worry it might have broken Something that way. The coolant pipes were what was holding it back so I hope I didnt crack them or their interfaces to the CPU or anything like that. I hope i didnt damage the CPU!

The black fin array is normally.flush with the dual cpu fans assembly and it was in the way of me getting any more framework out of the way to get at the sata port. I eventually gave up on that and just lifted the framework enough to plug the sata in. I dont k ow hoe to find out if I damaged anything or what i damaged. Though. How does a person check that? I dont see any visible damage. How would i know if I vroke something andnif so what?

[orchid iron]

I never owned a single system with AMD
All laptop/desktop I have use an Intel CPU
They are all very reliable and I never had any issues with any of them besides thermals

I thought about purchasing Intel GPUs too, even after their chaotic launch, I'd have bought a battlemage GPU

So I'll say this to you, thank you for sharing how great they are for AI workloads, I know how much everyone here loves AI, it is an amazing technology that won't negatively impact the market in any ways because AI is that awesome

[orchid iron]

Try to remove your system from this cursed case and put it on a non conductive surface

It'll be way easier to check each connection that way

[leaden narwhal]

Hmm I must procure more abundantly that flat and horizontal space which is so to be necessitated.

For if the system.is to be asprawl, and in such vivisection displayed, it must never be touched by child or beast or careless stumble of the hand.

I'm gonna need a bigger table.

[orchid iron]

Or buying a case which isn't a nightmare to deal with

[gaunt carbon]

How do you guys figure out the minimum required specs for a game you're releasing?

[orchid iron]

If you make a game with only dx12 without dx11 that already sets a minimum because not many GPUs support dx12 compared to those who support dx11
You can check how much RAM and VRAM your game uses from your own hardware, along with knowing if you want to only use dx12 / also use dx11 / vulkan
From there if you look at some GPU series specifications and make an educated guess at which GPUs would theocratically work, and purchase a few to see if they actually work

Keep in mind some EU features may not work on dx11 and vulkan like lumen and nanite

[gaunt carbon]

thanks for info

[obtuse rapids]

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/alienware-m18-r2-gaming-laptop/spd/alienware-m18-r2-laptop/useashbtsm18r2hctz?cjdata=MXxOfDB8WXww&cjevent=51c1aa4ab0a511ef83710e100a82b82d&dgc=CJ&publisherid=3486349&publisher=&aff=Future+Publishing+Limited&affid=3486349&aff_webid=8900245&aff_user_id=tomsguide-us-2040262388911169534&gacd=9684992-28463632-5750457-345576786-177846717&dgc=af&VEN1=12578053-8900245-tomsguide-us-2040262388911169534-Future Publishing Limited&dclid=CJi_oZiFiYoDFUKNWgUdbJgEtQ does seem to be a decent deal for a 4090 laptop...

Still, can't believe it only has 16 GB vram for all that... The 3090ti I bought from FB marketplace 3 years ago has 24

Does anyone here actually develop UE using a MacBook? It's binary so it should be fine to work cross platform.... Right??? 😬

[orchid iron]

https://tenor.com/view/gif-for-editing-gif-19127929

[orchid iron]

Intel CEO got fired again, hopefully next one invests more into the dedicated GPU

[mighty patrol]

They won't

Blue has hard enough time competing with green and red.

After all their cpu drama I'd be surprised if they kept with gpu program.

[delicate crystal]

I read he retired? Maybe a polite canning but :shurg:

[orchid iron]

yeah, he retired along with the employees that also retired earlier this year

[grave sundial]

He retired hurt.
cricket term

[agile lodge]

https://youtu.be/0pomC1CfpC0?si=BLAisCJAEdSwJerR

[mental timber]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJTEgfgBxqk

[agile lodge]

https://youtu.be/Dl81n3ib53Y?si=QjY0S3qno-FiUWIU

[orchid iron]

yeah the CEO leaving right before this is a great sign

[violet spade]

Maybe he just got bored of making so much money 🙃

[orchid iron]

I think it may have been the investors that were annoyed he didn't warn them about oxidation and 13th and 14th issues
If he hid information about petty things, who knows what else he hid

[agile lodge]

https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-announces-xess-2-with-xess-frame-generation-and-xess-low-latency

[orchid iron]

agreed xD

[mental timber]

Seems like there was a press release made the day he resigned. The board was getting tired of Pat taking so long to turn the ship around

[violet spade]

I mean… it’s a pretty big ship

[orchid iron]

I think when almost all projects he did failed or did worse than their competitors, they got fed up faster

keep in mind he said people would only use E core for powering their GPU

And also said GPUs would be out dated soon

[violet spade]

Hehehe

Well if Intel Arc had any chance of catching on, the 14th Gen fiasco probably ended that

[agile lodge]

people have put Intel Arc A300 cards to they homelab servers

[orchid iron]

https://youtube.com/shorts/cLH8qSXrYWM?si=QLfnvRK_ZzPfXU09

[devout pendant]

do I have to buy a new phone if I want to use an eSIM?

[fallen oasis]

No.

Just add teh sim to your phone in the settings.

Depends on your phone, ofc.

[mighty patrol]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qqeMWrrxMc

[median marsh]

Jay summoning the CEO of NZXT as if he was the principle at a school is crazy works
😄

[orchid iron]

I think nzxt CEO thought he would be way more chill than GN (flashback to meeting newegg and Asus higher ups)

[orchid iron]

after watching it, yeah a lot of events may have happened due to bad luck, but they still have to hold responsibility for not doing the extra step of refining their flex program

[mighty patrol]

Ceos body language be weird

[orchid iron]

Yeah, he is clearly not a social person, but still impressive he started at 19

[orchid iron]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DAANNGvMANM#

Oh, now nzxt is in their radar and have begun to receive a lot of tips from many people
Yeah, I think a Jay interview may have been a better idea than Steve 'cause he is about to make them feel what Asus and newegg got

[median marsh]

sometimes GN goes a bit beyond what's rational

[opaque pond]

i'd say sometimes thats needed

[median marsh]

complains about NZXT asking money for a RMA return kit, what did he expect? That cardboard boxes and packaging fall from heaven?

if they offer RMA return kits for free then everyone has to pay more

there is NEVER free stuff from companies, someone has to pay it... the customer

[wind egret]

$35 for a box with some packing peanuts? foam? yeah GN is really out of line there

[median marsh]

yea but everything NZXT is overpriced, so here you go....

[mighty cosmos]

Feel like GN sometimes goes over the line a bit as well

[orchid iron]

Yeah, but since it is against business with shady and misleading practices, it is completely fine

Since other companies also watch him, they'll be pressured into making themself look more transparent otherwise they might be the next nzxt

[violet spade]

Well, he is understandably mad at their shady practices and covering up when found out, so he goes on a bit of a rant, picking on every small detail. Probably fed up to see it with many companies, now that they have a brand name to hide behind. Wait till he finds out this is what most big corpos do, in every industry

Also in this case I think the issue is if the vendor fucks up, it shouldn’t be on the customer to pay to fix it

[fresh fog]

Me neither. If it's found to be a fraudulent claim, charge them then.

If you ship me something that doesn't work, why the hell am I paying extra to get what I'm already owed

[median marsh]

that kit is for people who discarded their original packaging

and yea i can kind of forgive GN here since they probably produce those videos pretty quick when there's a topic like that

[orchid iron]

He is fully aware of it, he already did all that against Newegg, Asus and so many others
Early on there was potential for them to be an "auditor" to check a company and tell them things they should change to be a better company
But sadly they noticed if they do this sort of "extreme" and "overblown" content, actual change would be made

Which makes sense, companies cheap out on everything as much as possible like customer service, RMA, etc until that one moment when things get into a critical situation and they are forced into changing that
We can all accept shady company practices and think it is "the norm" but then what? We just get screwed, end of story
Of course nzxt may not deserve all the negative attention it is getting, but any other company that wanted to do a "renting PC" model will now have to seriously consider how it is implemented because of GN's bad press on the whole matter

[fervent jolt]

PC rentals!??!? ... i'm sorry but the only people screwing up here are consumers 🤣

[wind egret]

Renting business computers can make sense.
but when you're better off taking a predatory loan (at least according to GN, using examples of predatory loans in the US states where such loans are regulated to barely within sanity) it looks very silly.

[fervent jolt]

not really, only if the rental rates are extremely cheap (they never are)

[violet spade]

Could be worse, could be a PC built by the Verge 😁

[median marsh]

well there's afaik certainly a big computer leasing/renting business for companies.

that's also why you see a lot of dell/lenovo refurbished computers on the market, they are usually returns from such contracts

[fervent jolt]

Yes, I used to work in a massive global corporation that "utilized" those fucking POS leased dells

[fervent jolt]

Some companies just don't want the hassle of owning anything

[orchid iron]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wBqfzj6CEzI#

This is a new meaning for the sentence "gaming at the speed of light"

[plush turret]

if im mainly storing stuff for later upload, would a SATA or NVMe SSD be better?

especially on a budget

[mighty patrol]

Sata likely especially if your recording etc

Lots of recording kills nvme faster

[orchid iron]

If you are constantly overwriting files, pay attention to the TBW spec of the ssd you are buying, it says how many terrabytes the manufacturing expects you to write until they are no longer confident in their product, so 400 tbw per T the driver has is on the low end and 600 tbw per T is on the higher end

Depending on if you find some good deals on NVMe with high TBW, you could get an extension card to plug into your pcie slots

[plush turret]

and HDD while slower doesnt have the write limit issues do they?

[orchid iron]

They do, all cells which store data have a limit

But that TBW spec is more of an estimate, you might quadruple that value in its life time, I know my 10 year old laptop did xD

Some HDDs use different metrics for endurance
But you should look at online reviews, I know a lot of Seagate stuff gets a lot of failures

[mighty cosmos]

if SSD self reporting is to be believed, my oldest SSD is approaching 10 years and it has 86% of "life" still remaining in it

Higher capacity SSDs handle more writecycles as well

[orchid iron]

Nice, you got one of those 100 year SSDs

[median marsh]

Intel?

got an intel with almost 8years poweron time (15 years old drive)
31 TB written (according to google it's supposed to last at least 7.5TB TBW) and it's still at 86% of spare cells

i feel like it's going to outlive me if there's no other electronic fault 😄

[mighty cosmos]

It's a Samsung Evo something something

I'll check tomorrow at how many writes it's at but that's been my os drive until recently

I'm pretty sure it's rated for 1.2k TB

Writes

If nothing else on that SSD dies first the memory modules alone on it will end up in a museum sooner than they will die

[median marsh]

ah, probably one of the first qvo or however they've been named? the SATA ones

[mighty cosmos]

Yeah one of those

[orchid iron]

https://youtube.com/shorts/aej2Zjlph24?si=wz4vQMS84x5PTH_F

That ending gave me emotional damage

[agile lodge]

there is some videos now that "intel saves PC gaming"

[orchid iron]

Feels like user benchmark alt account

[mighty patrol]

Like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWQSZGzPud0

[dense stirrup]

WOOHHOOOW B580 IS REAL DEAAL MY BROTHER, finally gpu world becomes so alive

[orchid iron]

noice, finally something that can beat the 3060

or at least challenge it

[orchid iron]

Guys, right now I'm hesitanting on either Air cooled fans or water cooled fans, I'm not sure which one has the most overclockable potential

Here is the link to the air cooled fan

https://www.arctic.de/en/S12038-8K/ACFAN00294A

[dense stirrup]

I'm sorry brother pardon my newbienes and stupidity, now im building my first ever pc and don't know even more oc or server scale, but in my perspective the air cooler is more easy to handle and to maintain, as long as its a big air cooler, huge surface and lots heatpipes, and the fan is a monster 8k rpm, logically the performance will be not significantly different, ill go with air cooler all the way, recently i just loss return my aio and buy deepcool ak620 digital

But if you are likely to do a hard maximum oc, perhaps it's a different case?

Is there any benchmark already?

[orchid iron]

I'm talking about cooling the fans, poor little guys do all the work cooling the pc, but what cools them you know?

So I found these air cooled fans (there is a small fan in the center of the fan I linked, which cools the fan motor)

while writing the message I went and did a little bit of trolling and started talking about overclocking fans (which aren't overclockable xD )

and also since now there is air cooled fans, what about water cooled fans, how would that work? Would the pump connect a little tube alongside all of the fans xD

[dense stirrup]

aaaaah i seee now i get it hahaha i never knew and thought that fans also need to be cooled hahaha if the cooling fan for fans will go 8k rpm, then the fans overclocked to 20 thousand rpm, the pc will be cooled for sure into pieces hahaha

[orchid iron]

yeah you got it xD

[orchid iron]

do NVME ssd with all SLC exist? I found a few sata ones, but that interface is holding the drive so much xD

oh right, I forgot to look in U.2 form factor

oh what, U.3 is out, man I am outted

[orchid iron]

damn it, I remember the Intel Optane series...Rip

[mighty patrol]

Ambient room temp lol

and they try

[orchid iron]

https://wccftech.com/sk-hynix-96-gb-128-gb-ddr5-based-cxl-2-0-memory-solutions-next-year/

Omg, we will be able to add ram to pcie slots!!!

[median marsh]

memory modules are like 10x faster than pci ex

[orchid iron]

This is for servers or ai workstations, but with pcie 6 or 7 it could be worth using

[median marsh]

idk... new threadrippers support up to 2TB memory, this seems to be a nieche product

epyc up to 6TB

so 128GB is nothing on those platforms 😄

[mighty cosmos]

I have my doubts about how useful this is going to be for ai because communication over pci is a major bottleneck when attempting to use system memory

[orchid iron]

hopefully buying this is cheaper than buying a whole threadripper workstation, and better than having the ram leak into ssd

[median marsh]

your usual consumer mainboard doesn't even have enough pci express lanes to handle that expansion card

you'll need a threadripper to begin with unless you want to sacrifice pci express lanes from the gpu/ssd

[orchid iron]

I got a motherboard that can bifurcate the x16 to x8 / x4 / x4 gen 4, so perhaps I'll be able to have 384 gb of ram on a am4 system xD

[median marsh]

yea while it's as fast as an SSD connected to 4 lanes at that point

so with a ramdisk i already can have >2TB memory on AM4...

is it practical? No.

[orchid iron]

isn't the random read and write speeds of ram better than ssds? (I'm just trying to find a very niche use for whatever nonsense I'm saying)

[median marsh]

that depends on where the bottleneck is

[orchid iron]

because I've rarely seen gen 4 x4 pcie lanes being fully capped by gen 4 ssds

so maybe ram can cap it

[median marsh]

yea but they are getting there

also that card uses 8 lanes

[orchid iron]

other option would of been to raid 0, 4 different nvme on an expansion card and then use ramdisk

[median marsh]

also i don't see any need for so much memory on a desktop

people who need that much memory get a threadripper and call it a day

[orchid iron]

hmmm, now I'm curious ram vs 4 raid 0 nvmes

[obtuse rapids]

Partially a software question but I know people here will be able to point me in the right direction - My PC (custom water cooled i9 13900k , 4090TI on a 1600 w power supply obviously runs a lot of power at full load. However, I'd like it to draw much less when it is idle, however, I have so many different processes running in the background, things like Signal RGB or just various windows services, that it seems it never stops drawing less than 1000w (according to my killawatt, which is plugged in ONLY to the PC itself. Where should I start looking to "truly idle" the machine. Sleep isn't an option because I don't know how to remote into the computer ( which I need to do sometimes) when the computer is asleep. I've already used the Intel utility to lower the max voltage of the 13900k which is known to run hot/draw a lot normally)

[mighty cosmos]

You mean 4090? Because 4090ti isn't a thing 😅

1k on idle is way too much, that should be more like 100-150W max
You shouldn't even reach 1K at full load with both CPU and GPU, 450W for the GPU and 350W for the CPU plus any other devices

My system (4090, 9950x) draws around 100-150W when idle

And I have a lot of background stuff so it's never truly idle either

[obtuse rapids]

Okay I doublechecked and it's running at 590w but only discord is open - I also have wallpaper engine running but it's not doing much .

Am I going about it the right way in terms of searching for power draw?

[orchid iron]

you aren't reading the power draw from your pc correctly, both cpu and gpu aren't even at 30%, there is no way it can draw so much with so little usage

"If you don’t want to open the case, you can use software tools to estimate your system's power consumption. While these tools won’t tell you the exact PSU model or wattage, they can give you an idea of how much power your current hardware is using, helping you assess if your PSU is sufficient.
Recommended Software:

HWMonitor: This tool displays real-time CPU, GPU, and motherboard voltage, temperature, and power consumption data. By checking the power usage, you can estimate your system's total power demand.

Open Hardware Monitor: Similar to HWMonitor, it provides detailed hardware performance stats, including power consumption."

From a quick search

[orchid iron]

out of curiousity, what is your power supply? It might have a critical problem if you read correctly

[mighty cosmos]

That still sounds like way too much
Use something like HWInfo or HWMonitor like Lab suggested, won't be exact since it can't account of inefficiencies but it's close enough

[orchid iron]

you think he got hacked and there is cryptomining going on in his background xD

[fallen oasis]

You'd hear the fans spinning like mad if so.

[median marsh]

with 1kW of usage they should spin yea

[grave sundial]

so fast that clockwise becomes counterclockwise.

[devout pendant]

where is located the second sim slot in my moto g 5g? is it under the battery?

[orchid iron]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UxYjjpu52IQ

[mighty patrol]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG8m6gb5acg

[orchid iron]

intel looking hella cooked

[agile lodge]

that is nvidia jetson platform for robotics

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/autonomous-machines/embedded-systems/jetson-orin/nano-super-developer-kit/

[orchid iron]

AI

[mighty patrol]

Price not bad

[orchid iron]

6 cores and 8 gb of ram

seems very nvidia

[agile lodge]

for nvidia jetson there is this https://github.com/NVIDIA-AI-IOT

[plush turret]

is it better to wall mount or free stand my wifi router? trying a bit to save space

[fallen oasis]

I have one of my routers hanging in a cupboard, supported only by the rj45 cable plugged in the back.

[orchid iron]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BT-YSg1KkIQ

[orchid iron]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L8sIJqrhHOs

Incredibly fascinating how in a completely different world, the concept of HHD and ssd somewhat parallel ours

[mighty patrol]

Minecraft people be nutty

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z16rzIF5J40

[median marsh]

minecraft isn't that much different actually, but nice video regardless

[craggy bay]

Hello everybody, I’m planning to build a new PC, and I mainly plan to use Unreal, Blender, ZBrush, and Photoshop.
I’m not sure which GPU to buy.
I found a 4070 for 450€ (used), a 4070 Ti for 580€, and a 3090 for 490€ (used).
I’ve read many posts on Reddit about which GPU is better, but I just can’t decide. Some people say the 3090 is better because of the VRAM, while others say benchmarks show that the 4070 Ti is better.
Additionally, some say that 24GB VRAM is only useful for large scenes, but I’m not sure what qualifies as “large,”.

[ivory lagoon]

An average project with windows background tasks consumes very quickly 13 to 15GB Video memory on my end.

[craggy bay]

What do you mean by average

[ivory lagoon]

Having Painter open with 30 layers, move a bunch of sliders and it will go over 20GB quickly.

Small project. Just having unreal open with virtual shadow maps, lumen will consume over 12GB very quickly.

[craggy bay]

Okay

Would you mind sharing what gpu you use?

[craggy bay]

Alright

May I send you youtube video of unreal project I would like to make

Just to be sure that 3090 would be enough for what i want

[ivory lagoon]

I just opened my current project.

It might also depend on the resolution of your monitor though ,not sure about that.

But this is what is generally consumes on my end.

[craggy bay]

Its 2k monitor

[ivory lagoon]

Once i open up more apps it goes up.

2x8k.

[craggy bay]

https://youtu.be/xJUXBkdmRjM?si=-7-7_olKvI-haVIG

Do you think making this would be possible

[ivory lagoon]

Oh for sure.

[craggy bay]

With 3090?

[ivory lagoon]

absolutely.

I would also say it will work on a 4070

[craggy bay]

The only reason 4070ti seems better to me is because of speed and because its newer

[ivory lagoon]

The problem is though, once you run out of memory it will crash or write to your second level cache, which is part of your system memomry which is quite a bit slower.

Same with something like Substance Painter. It caches the layers for quic kacces.

once you run out you get that blue loading bar and you have to wait for each clikc.

[ivory lagoon]

Yeah that's a though one.

If it's purely for game dev. i would consider a 3090, but if you play games every once a while i would go for a 4070ti.

Are you buying a whole system?

[craggy bay]

Yes

[ivory lagoon]

I am still running on a 5 year old CPU, which goes fine with a 4090.

I have a5800X.

I do a bit of modeling and evironment in UE, and for that the GPU is more important for me.

[craggy bay]

I only have 1000w psu and samsung 980 pro 2tb for now lol

I also have 8tb hdd

[ivory lagoon]

Same.

I have 2 SSDs and one HDD.

First need a ship with money before i upgrade anything eles.

[craggy bay]

Are you happy with that much memory

[ivory lagoon]

Yes.

I wouldn't trade it for anything else.

I keep telling people GPU is more important when they spend 1500 on CPU, Motherboard and SSD.

Also, it depends a bit on your monitor resolution and refresh rate.

I have a big monitor that needs it.

CPU is fine for everything.

You only get marginal perf. increases in games.

[craggy bay]

Well i do play games sometimes but im buying it for game art in first place, since my current pc can barely run photoshop, and im planing to enroll in game art collage in july

[ivory lagoon]

ah okay.

[craggy bay]

And i would really like to make something that would last

[ivory lagoon]

Just get a new one. You can always sell and buy a better one later-on.

Also, if you do plan to get asecond hand one, make sure it still has at least 6 months warranty.

[craggy bay]

Allright

[ivory lagoon]

It's not worth saving a few bucks over.

If your card dies, you have nothing.

[craggy bay]

So for game art 3090 should be better

[ivory lagoon]

Agian, this is use case specific.

I can't tell you what you need.

Ram. is important. Maybe someone else can contribute to that conversation?

One thing i can tell you, is that i had a 3070 when UE 5 came out and was constantly running out of Ram.

[craggy bay]

Also i have one more question, is ddr4 and am4 still good thing to get ?

[ivory lagoon]

Also could not have anything else open at the same time.

I mean, if you are on a budget, sure.

I would probably get a 5700X3d, with cheap Motherboard and you are done with 300 bucks.

Problem is that if you get the latest platform with similar connectivity its going to cost your three times as much.

[craggy bay]

My uncle offered to give me his motherboard and ram, he said he has 4x64 ram, but its ddr4

[ivory lagoon]

That's not neccessary

[craggy bay]

I think 256gb of ram is too much

[ivory lagoon]

32GB to start with so you can upgrade to 64Gb if youare on a budget.

[craggy bay]

But my uncle would give it to me for free

[ivory lagoon]

Well, take it.

[craggy bay]

Im only not sure because its ddr4

[ivory lagoon]

Sell most of it and get a free CPU out of it too.

That's fine.

GPU is more important.

Again, i am pairing a 5800X with 4090.

[craggy bay]

You have ddr4 right?

[ivory lagoon]

I have complaint or need to upgrade.

yes.

32GB at 3200Mhz.

You only need more if you are planning to make Huge open worlds.

[craggy bay]

But is it fast enough?

[ivory lagoon]

Just making a few pieces like the scene in the video you posted, 32Gb will do.

Yes.

It is plenty fast enough.

GPU is more important.

[craggy bay]

Okay

[ivory lagoon]

I don't want to work in a lagy environment in Unreal when making environments.

[craggy bay]

I just wasnt sure if i should turn down uncles offer and get ddr5

Would it even make difference?

[ivory lagoon]

I would take his Ram, thank him for it of course. Keep one or two sticks and sell the rest of that Ram to fund your CPU or GPU partially.

Ram speed matters the least!

[craggy bay]

For how much could i even sell it for?

[ivory lagoon]

If you spend the extra money on a CPU that you would normally buy faster Ram for you will get a more performant system.

128GB ddr4 should still be worth 150 bucks, of the top of my head.

[craggy bay]

Well, tbh i was first planing to get 32gb ddr5 and ryzen 9 7950x3d

And i would buy it if it would make big difference

[ivory lagoon]

I'd take a 5700x3d with 4090 any time of the day over a 9950x with 4070ti.

Again, it depends a bit on the monitor as well.

The higher your resolution the more your GPU has to work.

[craggy bay]

I think 4090 is just too expensive

[ivory lagoon]

Well, count in that you need a more expensive platform with AM5, SSD Gen5, DDR5.

That will most likely cost more then 1k.

[craggy bay]

More than 1k is okay

[ivory lagoon]

CPU 500, Motherboard 300, Gen 5 SSD 300, and Ram 250.

[craggy bay]

I wouldnt like to go over 2k

[ivory lagoon]

You can get a 5700x3d with Motherbaord for about 300.

[craggy bay]

I already have ssd

[ivory lagoon]

save 1k and get a4090 over that 4070ti.

Just an option.

Okay.

[craggy bay]

Sorry i dont get it

My english isnt the best

[ivory lagoon]

Anyhow, just write it down, think on it for a night and it will become all clear. Gotta' go. good luck!

[craggy bay]

Okay

Thank you for your help

[ivory lagoon]

No worries. English isnt my first language either.

[craggy bay]

It really means alot

[ivory lagoon]

Happy Holydays 🙂

[craggy bay]

Thanks : } same to you!

[orchid iron]

@craggy bay wait, 4x64 in total 256gb of ddr4 ram? Does he use enterprise grade stuff like 64gb of ram per stick? Because in consumer am4 we only go up to 32gb of DDR4, you might need to check if his stuff is even compatible with the motherboard you are going with

[orchid iron]

imo, with the current 4090 shortage due to the 5090 launch, it isn't worth going from 4070ti to 4090, maybe the 5090 will have better pricing because it'll have double the cores as the 5080, and unlike the 4090 has 32gb of VRAM, which would be the most in consumer market...Although Nvidia marketing will likely push for 5070 Ti being the highest "consumer" card

And again, based on personal opinion, I'd reccomend staying on am4 or even upgrading to a 5950x (which you may find at half the price it launched at), and putting the rest of that budget into a reliable PSU and GPU that will serve you for many years (I recently watched a video where the guy does a high end build but cheaps out on the PSU that's why I mention it xD )

as @ivory lagoon mentioned, for your projects, you are very likely to use the GPU more, so you should spend a bigger budget on the GPU over your platform

but out of curiosity what is your PSU? I wouldn't want to reccomend a high end GPU when you have a thermaltake smart or something

[median marsh]

why the hell did 4090 prices almost increase by 50% in the last 3 months?

shouldn't they try to get rid of their stock before the 5080/5090 drop

[naive cloak]

because they know that when 5000 series will be available everyone will want to buy 4000...

they already went full apple and said that the GPU will be so good it will need less VRAM

[median marsh]

https://tenor.com/view/appurajosh-appu-gif-21480397

i wish intel had the b770 ready.... with 16GB VRAM and 4070+ performance it would be a really good choice now

[orchid iron]

they stopped making 4090, so they can increase the price as much as they want and when 5090 it'll look cheaper

[orchid iron]

nah, way worse, they said to their board partners to market the 5070 TI as the highest tier for gamers, anything above it is for pros, also the 5090 having twice the amount of cores as the 5080 and having 32gb clearly means they are willing to do more VRAM...For the right price ofc

[mighty patrol]

Anyone here deployed to a steam deck?

[frigid heath]

no, ive deployed to andriod tho

[mighty patrol]

Fair I was mostly asking as I could only find limited resources on it and I wanted to do some testing on my deck w/ my project. https://dev.epicgames.com/community/learning/tutorials/qOW3/unreal-engine-deploying-to-steam-deck

I read somewhere on reddit it's not updated to ue5 yet

[frigid heath]

i dont see why ue5 wouldnt package too steamdeck its been out a while, also its basically android right?

[mighty patrol]

More or less

Well i'll do some tests eventually and report back

1gb of vram is what worrys me

[frigid heath]

good luck

[mighty patrol]

Lords of the fallen works on steam deck so what's the worst that can happen

Lol

[frigid heath]

https://tenor.com/view/up-is-not-jump-computer-laptop-fire-fire-extinguisher-gif-15071502

[orchid iron]

you could make it for Linux and make it use as much resources as the hardware can give, steamOS is pretty open

[plush turret]

is this a decent SSD? https://www.amazon.com/WD_BLACK-SN850X-Internal-Gaming-Solid/dp/B0B7CQ2CHH/

specifically wanting the 4TB option

I really wanna expand my NVME storage space

atm its just 500gb

[orchid iron]

wow it has really dang good specs, only down side is 2 gb of dram instead of 4 gb, but I doubt you'd need that for production and content creation, it has 2400 TBW which is quite high for such a price

[plush turret]

its mostly going to be for gaming

[orchid iron]

still has pretty good random read/write, you won't notice much difference between this and some of the highest options on the market

(excluding the latest intel ssds)

[plush turret]

im fine with it

mainly just want the generally better than HDD speeds that some new games need

[orchid iron]

if you are going from hdd to this, you'll feel like you got a whole new computer

[plush turret]

hehe

i do have a SDD but its only 500gb

its a really nice one

but its like 4 years old

[orchid iron]

this one is from 2022, but the specs rival 2024 pretty well and for the price, I'd grab it if I lived in the US xD

[forest jay]

Any predictions on drop dates for rtx 5090 gpu 🙌🙏

[plush turret]

probably in the next few months

[orchid iron]

I read "drop dates" as "drop rates" and I was about to say 0.000001% xD

[plush turret]

so... as a project manager and not really a coder, what exactly would i get from the 5090 that im not getting from my 12gb 3060

[halcyon elbow]

Can a macbook air 8 gb ram with m1 run unreal 4 for medium size stylized projects ?
I ran it on 4 gb ram with 30-42 fps

[orchid iron]

Time, as of today there isn't any software technology that requires the 5090 over the 3000 series...now they could announce they made revolutionary advancements and their brand new software requires the new hardware, but as of today, if you are just patient enough you can do everything you want if you just wait the extra time you'd have saved if you had a 5090

[orchid iron]

Define "medium size", what are texture resolutions in your project, polygon per mesh, how much stuff is in your levels etc

[halcyon elbow]

@orchid iron I mean games before 2015 like for example portal , dead space , hitman absolution gameplay and graphics wise

[orchid iron]

So I have no idea if there is built in restrictions in the Unreal engine, but if you aim for a project on the same scale as portal it'll work even on unreal engine 5, since much of portal assets are quite light weight, but if you aim for something like hitman forget it because that game project would be very demanding from your hardware, all the furniture assets and texture are really demanding from your GPU and Vram amount

I personally use a 16gb laptop with a nvidia 960 (almost 10 years old) and I can run unreal engine 5.3 quite well at about 60 fps (I think I only use up about 6-7 GB of ram but the maps I work on are quite simple and don't have many large assets

[halcyon elbow]

woah thats great

@orchid iron can you share your work

maybe dm me

so i can get a what you are making

[orchid iron]

Imagine the basic 3rd person template unreal engine gives you, but with a few extra walls and signs, really light project xD

[halcyon elbow]

Understood

thanks

[forest jay]

Does that mean that when they announce at ces it’s not possible to be immediately available ?

[orchid iron]

I mean, they could, but also no one really does that, what usually happens is that they showcase the products and specs, and they give the release date which could from from 1 week to 1 month from the date of announcement

[forest jay]

Ok.Hoping the release date makes my 4090 suprim x go up when they announce the release so I can coordinate the sale of it for maximum anmount to then swoop a 5090

Likely a pipe dream of a swap sale but I can only hope it’ll work out like that 😆😏

[orchid iron]

you should probably sell your 4090 as early as possible because once the 5090 comes out, everyone who wanted to buy the 4090 will now instead buy the 5090 since it will likely be cheaper than current prices (due to the 4090 having low stock)

[forest jay]

I’m just gonna bank on someone who doesn’t want to wait 1 week or a little longer for 5090

[orchid iron]

big risk xD

[forest jay]

I know I know fact is I need to squeeze every last drop I can out of the 4090 for work wish I had a spare 3090 or something to get me by

[orchid iron]

tbf you could wait after the 5090 launches to sell your 4090, because of incoming china import tariffs may make every PC components more expensive and you may be able to sell your 4090 for way higher

[forest jay]

I haven’t updated to windows 11 on my rig yet I want to but procrastinating because i would want to back everything up prior. What percentage risk to I run just updating not backing up ?

[orchid iron]

well you put all your working files in a different drive than the one used by your operating system it would be around 0%

even if you kept it as is, all your stuff should still be there when you update, updates failures don't generally delete your user files

tbh you should probably stick to windows 10 until they officially end support since you really aren't missing out, but if you do, I'd reccomend backing everything up and doing a clean install (wiping everything and then installing your OS) since a lot of bloat may have accumulated on your windows 10 machine

[delicate crystal]

Looked up what a 4090 is here. 2500 and up. Yikes

[mighty patrol]

cad?

[delicate crystal]

Yes sir

Throwing this out there; would 4 gb more vram be that big of a difference? Seeing an asrock ex 7900 xtx for 1200 vs a sapphire 7900 xt for 925

[forest jay]

Yea I personally prefer 10 but I’ve been getting some weird glitchy stuff where some apps can be slightly unresponsive plus and needing to restart too much to quiet my fans thought it could have to do w me still running windows 10 and not 11

So I thought to myself hmm maybe if I make the jump it’ll run more smoothly ? Was just wishful thinking mostly

[orchid iron]

you could do a clean windows 10 install instead, glitches and odd stuttering may occur due to driver etc, upgrading may not fix anything and also add new issues

[forest jay]

Good point !

[forest jay]

Worth mentioning I use msi center and try to control my speed in there when I want my machine to run super quiet and less power. Always think this could be messing it up a little also

[orchid iron]

https://youtube.com/shorts/sryD0QZFgpA?si=WfbuzAVS-RQKLhfs

It is so bad it is good

[fallen oasis]

Let's be fair, it's not the guys you want to show off to in that video 😛

[orchid iron]

New Year, New Hardware, let's wish for the best

[mellow galleon]

mices are so fragile, after just 250 hrs of factorio my brand new razer deathadder lmb started to severely double click.
now sitting resoldering switches from dead steeelseries sensei (which got dead scrollwheel stepper in three months of POE) onto deathadder

[orchid iron]

I wonder how many clicks you did on that button

[grave sundial]

https://media.tenor.com/l7fqk3VrBjUAAAAM/dee-dee-button.gif

[mellow galleon]

both razer and steelseries use same omron d2fc-f-7n(10m) microswitches with 10mil clicks lifespan (not even 20m or 50m versions)

i think they are very prone to break (the internal plate slightly bends) when you do a lot of selection with button held

since it is not first time i have to resolder switches

[orchid iron]

10 million click life span? You are telling me you clicked a mouse 10 million times in 250 hours, that's 40k clicks per hour or 11 clicks per second

[orchid iron]

I'd use the warranty on that if it is still valid, might be a factory defect (or manufacturer is lying about expected life spans again)

[mellow galleon]

warranty does not exist here, it is always "fix yourself if yo can"

[agile lodge]

2k for new rtx 5090

[mighty patrol]

That's it

[frank glade]

5070 matches 4090 performance? really

[median marsh]

i would wait for 3rd party benchmarks...

[lunar aurora]

calling BS on it.

matches 4090 performance!***

***: IF you enable the new DLSS which triples the framerate with generated, fake frames

[naive cloak]

I think they mean matches power consumption 😄

[orchid iron]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ8gSV_KyDw

Yup, a 5070 beats a 4090 in terms of fps if you could all the AI generated frames as "actual frames", the number of AI dedicated cores has massively increased from the previous gen, so expect Nvidia cards to get out of stock pretty quickly if the AI trends gets on same scale as crypto

Up to 8 frames can be generated from 1 real frame

[hushed cloud]

With frame generation their claim is double performance.

Are they not going to tell us raw performance gains or is that just half the double ?

[lunar aurora]

What you can realistically expect

4090 vs 5090

[hushed cloud]

What's with this image then seemingly suggesting no real gains without frame generation?

[lunar aurora]

Oh the gray bar is just the 5090's baseline without DLSS, frame generation, all that

but yeah they can apparently generate 4 fake frames per real rendered frame

which, of course, will have caveats and tradeoffs and never be "real" frames

[hushed cloud]

So from a raw performance standpoint maybe like ~32% gains?

[lunar aurora]

My rough ballpark would be... mm, 40, 45ish

[orchid iron]

roughly, because as the slide showed by Michelle, in Far Cry 6, raw raster is only around 20% increase

And first party numbers are always a bit inflated

[lunar aurora]

I guess we're gonna have to bait for wenchmarks

but on paper it does look to be quite a bit more powerful

and oh my fucking GOD

Nearly 600 watts of power draw under load

https://tenor.com/view/i-am-losing-my-grip-on-reality-i-have-gone-clinically-insane-my-descent-to-madness-is-complete-ive-gone-completely-mental-i-am-beyond-the-point-of-no-return-gif-23191724

[orchid iron]

that's 4 8 pin power connects

but conveniently, only 1 of those shiny 12v high power cables rated for 600w

[grave sundial]

5080 seems like a nice long-term upgrade for me.
But, long-term aside, I'll skip this generation for now.

[hushed cloud]

Also someone pointed out that they did the tests on 4090 using FP8 and FP4 for 5090, so the tests are not even the same?

[orchid iron]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ORXoOKND1Tk

[naive cloak]

just wanted to post this video 😄

all this time they just pretended to work on next gen GPU but what they actually did was to invent marketing trick to make people buy "new" GPU

[hushed cloud]

The real issue I think is physics. We've hit or are about to hit a moors law wall. We can only innovate via size, at the expense of heat and power draw. Or software solutions. Fitting more RAM. A few other things?

I would love to be told otherwise. I'm hoping some tech breakthroughs are found hardware side.

[naive cloak]

but what they do is blatant false advertising, its illegal but they keep getting away with it.

[hushed cloud]

Well that's because who can sue a large company like Nvidia. Tesla has been advertising Full Self Driving for years and still does. It's probably a slippery slope and not an open and shut case.

[naive cloak]

they can sue X, Meta etc. why not Nvidia?

[hushed cloud]

Anybody can sue anybody doesn't mean you're going to win.

It also takes money

[fallen oasis]

If you have substantially less money than somebody else, you can't sue them. It's just a pointless exercise.

[orchid iron]

Moore's law is dead, it has died a while ago, maybe not the recent "variations" of it, but the original intent of it is long gone
Just as Intel CEO said AMD was in the rear mirror, this "law" may not be up to date

[orchid iron]

Nvidia was sued so many times for anti-trust
Plus this marketing team has a way to make their slide "legally correct" by making some very small-sized text that make it possible to get the claims, although they may not align with realistic use cases

Think of the AMD's slide which said the 5700xt matched the 14700k or something like that, but in the small text, it said that they both used an RX 6600, which is a major bottle neck and would tie it with even a 9800x3d in the set up they had

[hushed cloud]

Its death alone would explain certain pricing points. Inovation isn't as easy any more, its more expensive.

[orchid iron]

but hey, it's not all gloom, there are technologies like; electron quantum tunnelling used to shrink transistor even further, light being used instead of electrons for near 0 latency, and light particle as a potential candidate to make cubits for quantum computing

[median marsh]

Leaving this as reference here, a good guide to pick a PSU.
A/B Tier seem to be the best pick
https://cultists.network/140/psu-tier-list/

[plush turret]

so, i want to hardwire 2 houses that are about 30-35 meters apart, i have some people saying to lay fiber down, others say simple direct bury ethernet is fine.

the only factor is id LIKE to drop it in the same hole as the 100amp power to the new building is going in, maybe seperated by 15-30cm of hard pack dirt

1 end will be inside a climate controlled area, the other will be in a spot that wont ever get wet, but also isnt climate controlled at all

[orchid iron]

Here is also one that might have more recent PSU models
https://www.cybenetics.com/index.php?option=psu-performance-database

[orchid iron]

If the wires are strong enough and you know there isn't going to be some digging in that area, should be fine but I'm no expert in that subject
Although, that 100 amp cable might cause some electromagnetic disturbances for your wire, so I'd recommend having it further

[median marsh]

i hope he's not planning to put a plain cable into the ground oO

[plush turret]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B087416RZY/

[median marsh]

i would still use some kind of empty tube around it

can't be that expensive for 30ft and you can easy swap the cable if it get's faulty or if you decide to change to fibre at some point

[plush turret]

30 meters

i have tons of PVC pipe

but its all plastic

dunno if thats going to prevent any interference issues when its next to 100amps of power

[median marsh]

no, but it would allow you to swap cables or add more

[plush turret]

same vertical, space but im assuming 6-12 inches spacing should help

[median marsh]

i don't think that it will have much influence (if any at all)

after all the ethernet cable is shielded

[plush turret]

i REALLY dont want to have to dig another 30 meter trench

and ethernet is fine for signal distance up to what? 300 meters?

[median marsh]

🤷

depends on the connection speed/cable/switch

[plush turret]

linearly the router to new structure by cable is going to be ~80 meters

all cat6

[median marsh]

you don't have google in the USA?

https://www.cablematters.com/Blog/image.axd?picture=/How long can Ethernet Be 2.jpg

[plush turret]

rn im on internet so slow google times out

funny enough discord runs fine at 15kb/s

web pages however do not

[orchid iron]

I have the same issues with google, using duckduckgo instead fixed the problem, way less stuff gets loaded

[plush turret]

dual band routers have 2.4 and 5.0 ghz wifi right?

[mighty patrol]

Yes

[little granite]

trying to help out a friend whos trying to decide between the huion kamvas pro (2.5k) 16 and the newly revealed gen 3 16.
the gen 3 has more senitivity, as well as other features that are improved on, but theyre hung up on the fact the pro 2.5k has 1200 contrast compared to the gen 3s 1000, plus the gen 3 has 25% less srgbw score

is that going to be noticeable?

left is the pro 16, right is gen 3

[grave sundial]

If they have used that level of contrast on a previous device before, then yes, they'd feel the difference.

If it's a price issue, it might be better to go down to a hardware store and try both out, before you buy them, if that's possible.

[little granite]

they cost roughly the same

[grave sundial]

Did your friend use a similar device before?

[little granite]

i lent them my pro 16 2.5k

[grave sundial]

Let them buy a 2.5k then.

If they're comfortable with it, no problem.

[little granite]

oh thats useful

they posted a changelog about the diff between the gen 3 and the 2.5k

so how has the colour accuracy been enhanced if the gamut is lower

or do i not know what a gamut means

[grave sundial]

If your friend can buy the updated pen separately, they can use it with the 2.5k.

They'd get the best of both worlds, then.

[little granite]

you actually cant

its not compatible

[grave sundial]

damn, that narrows the choice down then.

let them buy what they are comfortable with.

[little granite]

i`ll see if i can find any vids comparing the two

see if the colour/contrast is noticeable

i know nothing about this stuff

[grave sundial]

There are gen 3 reviews on YT.

I am watching one right now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2gEAky5ns8

[little granite]

Yeah, saw that

he judges it to an xp pen one tho

im gonna look at the 13 gen 3 review comparisons, see if thats at all comparable

[orchid iron]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lyliMCnrANI#

Now this, THIS is a GPU cooler

[median marsh]

the whole design is awesome

[naive cloak]

its funny how instead of building GPUs and make them generate FPS they work on everything else but that, they created DLSS, then have to invent ways to solve lag issues and all the other problems that generating fake frames create 🤦‍♂️

[mighty cosmos]

Because hardware is kinda reaching its physical limits and most of the future performance improvements will be coming from solutions like dlss that make standard rasterization faster

There is a reason why amd is pretty much not competing anymore and why improvements even on the CPU side are becoming smaller and smaller each generation

it's harder and harder to squeeze out more performance out of the chip by shrinking the hardware down

[median marsh]

just double the size and the speed, easy

[mighty cosmos]

thermals and power usage go brrr

[agile lodge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kki-bBQ3AXg

[orchid iron]

It isn't the first time AMD isn't competing in high end, it already happened multiple times in the past where they skip the high end on one or 2 gens, then they make high end again, it all depends on if people will actually buy it, the 7900 xt and 7900 xtx didn't sell well, so they are rethinking their strategy and with UDNA, perhaps either UDNA 1 or UDNA 2 will have a high end capable of either rivaling nvidia or at least having a product in between the 90 class and 80 class, because a class having double the cores of the one below it, is ridiculous to me

[naive cloak]

der8auer invented new measure unit: AIPM (AI per minute) 🤣 😢

[agile lodge]

nvidia got it a lot

[naive cloak]

I think nvidia is leading in AIPM

[worn sun]

Not true at all, why people keep saying this!! Makes me angry. Transistors 0.3nm wide have been created years ago already, kinda 10x smaller of what we have as of now. And there are many technologies to be develop in the future that will be vastly superior to how chips are produced contemporaneously like optical computing

[median marsh]

show one proof of concept of a integrated circuit which works with optical signals

and to be nice, i'm fine with an equivalent to 55k transistors, which is equivalent to an 186 cpu

[orchid iron]

quantum computers have been created decades ago, yet the quantum computers of today still can't rival good ol' x86 stuff because just because some prototypes are made, doesn't mean they are production ready or offer better price to performance compared to existing competition

The new transistors look good, and are objectively superior, but overcoming all the challenges in using them will likely take a really long time

[mighty cosmos]

Let me know when it comes to the consumer market then we can say it's not true

[mighty patrol]

We are lucky we even have the internet don't push it w/ quantum pcs.

[wise elbow]

modern quantum computers are absolutely infinitely faster than traditional computers in tasks that are efficient for them

they just aren't very general yet

not to mention programming one is completely alien when compared to traditional computers

problems in technology are always with doing it in scale, with consistent quality, and in time

im sure you can make a .3nm transistor CPU, but at what cost?
would it be better than 50 normal cpus for the same price?

people whine about dlss like it's a useless technology... it clearly isn't or people wouldn't use it.
it has tradeoffs like everything else in computing, and it turns out that in the majority of cases where it has a use, the positives exceed the negatives.
the only complaint I understand about relying on dlss with less hardware is that the hardware should be cheaper which is a completely sound argument. there's a reason AMD was cheaper last generation; it had significantly less specialized hardware for raytracing and AI while keeping the same rasterization performance which is good enough unless you want the functionality that missing hardware provides. then you have to pay the green tax...

[orchid iron]

not just hardware, the software is significantly behind nvidia, AMD took bet in making a non-ai upscaler which is good for old GPUs (and funny enough nvidia gpus too) but sadly it didn't pay out fast enough, or the marketing for that wasn't up to par with the professionals at nvidia

perhaps in 10 years we'll have more than 3 major hardware manufacturer with risc V

[wise elbow]

it appears fsr 4 will be decent. if it has compatibility for all GPUs with "ai cores", i think itll be successful

otherwise dead on arrival

[mighty cosmos]

Smaller process node being possible and getting good enough and reliable yield out of it aren't the same thing, the latter being a major issue to solve
And the name of the process node like 5nm, 7nm, etc... don't refer to the size of transistors or gates anymore or physical size of anything, now it's mostly a marketing term indicating higher possible density

[agile lodge]

https://youtu.be/qwOQWcg-Z_A?si=-zfVyYXgDi2HSV-J

[worn sun]

?? We have had 3nm on 2023, 2nm and 18a devices will launch this year ... The transistor density and power consumption progress has been going fine

tsmc A16 is expected for 2026 , intel14a for 2027

So far we have had:
tsmc 20nm 2014 tsmc 16nm 2015 Intel 14nm 2015 tsmc 10nm 2017 tsmc 7nm 2018 tsmc 5nm 2020 tsmc 3nm 2023 tsmc 2nm 2025 intel 18a 2025 tsmc 16a 2026(expected) intel 14a 2027(expected)
The increase in density and decrease in power consumption has kept fine along the updated nodes. How come is it that "we have become unable to produce more efficient fabrication nodes" ?

[wind egret]

It annoys me that phones have been getting the more cutting edge nodes. I suppose it's only natural for that to happen when people are spending four figures on phones with a relatively tiny chip, while most mainstream desktop gpus are three figures and workstation gpus prefer to be fat as $#%&.

[worn sun]

mac ships have remained in the bleeding edge. Truly the best ships to receive the best node. They are just so far ahead of every other cpu

Like Apple's m4 core compared to intels 285, both are using tsmc 3nm, m4 core is 3x-5x times more efficient. Its insane

[worn sun]

This is from 3 days ago

[mighty cosmos]

sure but you are yet again missing the point #hardware message

No one at any point has mentioned anything about not being able to produce more efficient process nodes
The point is that that rate of progress is evidently slowing down with smaller and smaller generational uplifts

[worn sun]

? No

[mighty cosmos]

if you say so 👍

all evidence suggested otherwise and it's a pretty well known thing that's happening

[worn sun]

the nodes improvements are within what was expected

[worn sun]

what ?

gpu performance has been going 2x every 2 years

[mighty cosmos]

why are you surprised at everything?

[wise elbow]

its cuz x86 is losing foothold as arm chips get used in more and more

[worn sun]

I dont think we live in the same world

[wise elbow]

also that just isn't true

[worn sun]

yeah x86 has been stuck but thats just x86 cpus

[mighty cosmos]

yeah I won't even engage in this when 1 side is making up numbers

[wise elbow]

arm is actually moving forward quite fast now that it's in more than phones (for consumers)

[worn sun]

arm cpues have been improvinga toon, be apple or cortex/snapdragon

[wise elbow]

and tbh, x86 is still getting process improvements. would be better if Intel had done basically anything in the last few years

[worn sun]

4090 was 75-100% more performant than 3090, same situation for 5090 v 4090

[mighty cosmos]

5090 is 20-32% faster than 4090

where are you getting these numbers from?

[worn sun]

although 5090 is 4nm, same node as 4090

[wise elbow]

there's no real benchmarks on the 5090 but even the official Nvidia ones only show a at most 30% improvement

[mighty cosmos]

and 4090 is 40-60% faster than 3090

[wise elbow]

should really be compared to the 3090ti...

[mighty cosmos]

you chose the worst possible website to compare GPUs

[wise elbow]

that website is run by a delusional lunatic

LOL

[worn sun]

no, because 4090 doesnt use the fulldie

[worn sun]

also game fps doesnt directly correlates to gpu power differential, because while a system may use a 2x gpu, wont be using 2x ram or cpu

[worn sun]

thats 1080p. cpu comparison

skewed chart

[wise elbow]

why is dlss on in any of those benchmarks?

[mighty cosmos]

sure, here is 1440p

4k

The difference here is mostly from much higher memeory bandwidth on the 4090

[worn sun]

In some games there is a 95-100% performance uplift indeed. and almost 100%+ difference while just changing the gpu is huge and it means more than 2x the actual power of graphics card

as for the 5090 yeah its still on 4nm need to check on benchs

[mighty cosmos]

it's 75% in the best case scenario

[worn sun]

but 2080ti vs 3090 was similar up to 90% performance uplift (actual fps)

[worn sun]

the division 2 81 fps vs 161

[mighty cosmos]

1 game is an exception not the norm

[worn sun]

there are some that show that level of improvement

[worn sun]

I remember doom eternal being almost 2x on 3090

[worn sun]

also gears tactics 81 vs 177 (and thats unreal)

[naive cloak]

the problem is that 50 series is fake, 30 and 40 series price is higher than it was on release, didn't changed even after 50 series release 🤣 😢

only solution is to boycott Nvidia, but no one will do it...

[worn sun]

problem is that rtx 5000 uses same n4 process as rtx 4000

that has never happened before

even gtx 1000 vs 2000 was 16 / 12

[naive cloak]

CEO was too busy slaughtering crocodiles for his fancy cringejacket...

[worn sun]

they should have used n3e, doubt there was clock issues, more likely it was a cost thing

I think they will release rtx 6000 sooner specially when 2nm will be a thing this year

[mighty cosmos]

The 5090 raw performance uplift roughly correlates to the increase in cuda cores, which is about 32%, plus massive increase in tensor cores (which I mainly care about)
In high resolution scenarios and VR there will probably be up to 40% raw uplift because the memory bandwidth is pretty much doubled

[naive cloak]

they dont have to, there is no competition

[worn sun]

we dont know ipc

[mighty cosmos]

highly doubt it changed much

[mighty cosmos]

amd basically gave up

[worn sun]

only apple with m4 max / ultra

[naive cloak]

5090 is basically Quadro

[mighty cosmos]

would rather be without a pc than buy anything from apple

[worn sun]

apple is literally the best by miless vs any other cpu brand

[mighty cosmos]

by what metric

[worn sun]

everything

[mighty cosmos]

specify then

[naive cloak]

nvidia is apple at this point

"the more you buy the more you save" lol

[mighty cosmos]

only thing Apple has over anything is efficiency, everything else is pretty mediocre

[naive cloak]

most efficient marketing department

[delicate crystal]

they're all right for basic work tasks. Had an apple for doing devops and python/go coding. Woudln't buy one for anything else

[mighty patrol]

Isn't Metal api still relatively dated compared to even vulkan?

[worn sun]

What ??

the m4 cores are the strongest

[mighty patrol]

But when it comes to game dev Apple wouldn't exactly be the best choice.

[orchid iron]

I am, not because I want to, but because I don't have the budget xD

@worn sun see the thing is, someone compared the m4 to the 4090 in benchmarks that were both on apple and windows, to which the m4 lost by a landslide

Also, a lot of GPU performance increase aren't limited to the die itself, especially for gaming, you can have the best die in the world and if you got slow gddr, low band with and bit bus, your performance will be aweful

Gaming is a very difficult benchmark, so many other variables influence its performance compared to blender rendering, video editing, AI benchmark, and other types of workloads

So when you say double performance each 2 year (which BTW used to be each 1 year!!! ) do specify on which workload as not all workloads are the same

[devout pendant]

a thunder struck a near building. The monitor blinked for a moment

[orchid iron]

monitor may not have as much protection as a pc power supply, do your plugs have overcurrent protections?

[devout pendant]

no

[timber cobalt]

Just a note. Overcurrent protection in plugs only good-ish for protect your equipments from lightnings that struck far away. Proper overcurrent protections has three stages and the first stages maybe protects from near hits and they are sacrificial devices.

So having protection in plugs/powerstrips can cause false sense of security.

[orchid iron]

so I'd need 3 different powerstrips with overcurrent protection?

[fresh fog]

No, and you don't want to daisy chain a surge protector anyway.

If you have old ones, you should probably replace them too. Surge protectors go bad after a while.
What the message is getting at is that if you want proper protection you need a dedicated UPS if I'm not mistaken

[timber cobalt]

Nope, first stage at the meter where the electricity enters the building, the second atage at the breakers, and third stages is in the power strips.
At least that is the european standard.
Not really doable DIY

[fresh fog]

huh damn, didn't know the meters had protection too

that's neat

[timber cobalt]

UPS acts as a third stage as well

[fresh fog]

Is there any benefit to a UPS over a regular surge protector? I've heard they're better but not why

[timber cobalt]

That system is rarely installed because it is expensive and was not an issue in the past

[timber cobalt]

I think better quality overall

[fresh fog]

fair enough

[timber cobalt]

But I honestly I dont know

And it usually protects the UTP as well

I mean lan cable

I plan to install a full protection in our house, but it can be around €500-800

I cant find a proper semantics about the full system but it is going by BCD surge protection or similar names. B,C,D (or Type 1,2,3) are the stages (B just after the meters, C at the breakers, D in outlets,UPS, etc)

[orchid iron]

Okay, so my building from 1980 probably doesn't have stage 1 and 2 xD

[orchid iron]

What about a car? If one were to use a desktop in a van? (Planting a metal rod in the ground when in use)

[timber cobalt]

huh, good question. how it gets electricity?

from the grid?

[timber cobalt]

mine was build around 2002, and does not have it :D
But it rarely has I think, because it makes the system more expensive, and well:

• people dont even know about that, and they just buy a power strip with surge protection
• they start to investigate about these after they had a major damage due to lightning :D

we will have probably some update (getting three phase) and that would be a good occasion to add that. Fortunate for us I am also an electrician, so it would be as expensive as the material.

[orchid iron]

a battery that got its power from a generator that would convert fuel into electricity or from solar panels

[orchid iron]

that's really cool

[timber cobalt]

Probably it is safer then being on the grid. Lightning affecting grid somewhere and sends a surge through it. Further we are the smaller the surge.

If you are off the grid, lightning should strike pretty close to affect your vans closed electricity system. In that rare case it is probably pure luck :D

[wise elbow]

the only time I've ever lost anything to a storm has been because of lightning traveling through ethernet lines

lost an optical panel, two routers, and the port on my mobo all from one strike

[delicate crystal]

anyone have any thougths on NAS solutions?

[naive cloak]

I dont know much about it but most NAS seems like overpriced low spec mini pc...

[delicate crystal]

ya your'e not wrong. Looking to upgrade and have a smaller tower and wodnered if doing an external NAS would work if it was say hooked with a 5 or 10 gig card. Have a server that has a 24tb RAID as well but that things' both loud and weighs a ton

[naive cloak]

why you care about weight?

[delicate crystal]

usually dont. jsut if I had to move it, my back would be happy not to have to lift 50 lbs 😄

[naive cloak]

use mobile server rack

[delicate crystal]

hm never knew that was a thing

on another note, anyone have any recommendation for motherboards for AM5 chips? wanted to get something that could handle future upgrade to 256GB ram, but it's not a hard need. Just not familiar with what makers are good now

[timber cobalt]

I am happy with my intel synology

[mighty patrol]

I heard good things about them and Ugreen

For pre-fab nas

[timber cobalt]

It is stable, efficient, silent, has good OS (and updated frequently), I can use Docker to install various stuff, etc

[naive cloak]

Intel Celeron J3455 Quad-Core? 🤣

you can buy N100 16gb minipc for ~140$

or you can buy Synology DiskStation DS718+ J3455 6gb for only 949$

the more you buy the more you save basically

[mighty patrol]

With things like synology or ugreen your also buying the software.

Ease of use

[timber cobalt]

Yup, you can buy that. Or I can buy a Synology, easily set it up, and it is working 24/7 without any effort

If that is not for you, I understand.

[mighty patrol]

Been thinking of trying HexOS

[orchid iron]

X870e taichi, really good price for what it offers
It says it can handle 256gb like many other am5 mobo, but for 256gb ram, I'd wait until the ram is in the market and buy a motherboard gen that came out after it

[mighty cosmos]

X870E hero

Tho don't expect to be able to OC ddr5 much at 256GB

It was pretty tough to get 4800-5000MHz stable on that board (and that's one the most high end boards) and 128GB ddr5, took me a while

If you can get to about 4800MHz it's fine, improvements past that are minor

But from stock speeds to 4800mhz the difference in performance is pretty big

[wise elbow]

am5 motherboards are so expensive

tbh unless you're going to overclock memory above 6000 mt just get a good b650e

if you need better I/O, get a x870/e

otherwise it doesn't really matter

and imo brands other than Asus and MSI have really poor rear io

x870e hero is crazy expensive

it's hard to go wrong with any of the major manufacturers unless you go on the low end

all depends on what you need/care about

[delicate crystal]

is this on the plan for this quarter, or later in the year? If the latter, might just suck up 128GB and run with it. Sounds like it'd be a better choice for stability?

[delicate crystal]

So just get anything 4800 or less and it'll be stable? Sounds good to me. Will look up the X870E's and see what they're offering

[delicate crystal]

god your'e not kidding. Cheapest X870E board in Canada is over 600 bucks

[delicate crystal]

basically something that I don't need to upgrade for at least a few years, is stable, and won't be really slow to work on. Cheap would be nice, but lest not get crazy now 😄

[orchid iron]

I also want to get 256gb of ram, my plan is to wait until first or second gen on AM6 before buying the best in the am5 market, which will guarantee me a very nice performance, stability and price

I did the same for 128gb, I waited until AM5 got 2 gens, then I bought the best AM4 stuff xD

[naive cloak]

you can go to US buy PC parts there and go back, or ask someone who will visit US 🧠

or wait till Canada becomes 51st state and buy then 🧠 🧠

[delicate crystal]

we arguably have been since the late 80's and prices still suck :p

[delicate crystal]

nice. I've currently got a threadripper 1920x and 128gb ram on my current setup with a 1070ti

[orchid iron]

What are your usual workloads? Because you might benefit more from a GPU upgrade, unless you only code, in which case I'd look at Xeon processors and platforms

[delicate crystal]

ya you're probably not wrong there. I jsut wonder if newer cards will be bottlenecked by the mainboard or components. Probably not unless I'm doing somehting crazy. Replacing the card would probably be good, I currently get random blue screens running unreal at the moment, hence the thoughts on upgrading

[orchid iron]

Is it at random or specifically under heavy load?

[delicate crystal]

that's a good question. It's not under heavy load, but it's only when unreal is running. It might be when it's processing something (it's been a while). Also i'm running windows 10 and it's held together with hopes adn dreams due to issues with updates so there's probably an os component as well

[orchid iron]

If it is truely random, I'd consider full clean reinstall of everything from a wiped drive, because the problem is likely driver thing, and I can't be bothered if a full wipe followed by reinstallation does the same thing better

[orchid iron]

It really sounds like you should do a clean reinstall regardless xD

[delicate crystal]

oh ya it's on the agenda regardless if it's an upgrade or replacement. The drives are samsung evo 250gb's so it'd be no loss there

[orchid iron]

Nice, I'd recommend doing it as early as possible so you can check if the issue goes away

Btw, window needs a lot of updates and reboots in a row to be fully updated, just a note for you when you do it ^^

[delicate crystal]

ya expecting that. dont' kwo if i should stick with 10, 11, or explore looking at linux

[orchid iron]

Windows 10 for as long as possible, then once it is Bella out dated, upgrade to Linux xD

[wise elbow]

basically the only thing the motherboard might limit is memory overclocking

it won't bottleneck anything for a while if you get a board with PCIE 5 for the GPU and NVME ssd

and PCIE 5 NVME basically isn't even worth getting rn...

the vrms (power supply for CPU) is so overkill these days on boards, unless you buy something really budget it'll be fine

[delicate crystal]

so this is the board that I currently have

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/X399-GAMING-PRO-CARBON-AC/Specification

Think this only goes to PCIE 3?

[wise elbow]

i believe that is correct

pcie 3 will definitely bottleneck a PCIE 5 GPU, though if it's a PCIE 4 GPU it ain't gonna affect it much unless it's a 8 lane gpu

[delicate crystal]

was looking at a RX 7900 XTX so odds are it'll be either PCIE 4 or 5

[median marsh]

i highly doubt that

do you have any proofs on that statement?

[wise elbow]

pcie 4

[median marsh]

https://www.techspot.com/review/2104-pcie4-vs-pcie3-gpu-performance/

[wise elbow]

ive seen concrete benchmarks on a PCIE4x8 in a PCIE3 slot and it causes meaningful performance losses

[median marsh]

yea, and i'm looking at concrete benchmarks from my link which provides zero evidence for that claim

[wise elbow]

if it's a x16 there probably won't be any. id be surprised if pcie5 doesn't suffer performance loss in a 3 though

how many lanes is the 3080?

[median marsh]

16 most likely

[wise elbow]

that makes sense

i remember reading about x8 cards like the 4060 performing significantly worse in PCIE3 than 4 because of the low vram

[median marsh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Tk_he0FkKk even 4090 with 16 pci ex3 lanes isn't really limited in usual game workloads

i doubt that the 4060 is 8 lanes

[wise elbow]

yeah even a 4090 doesn't use the full bandwidth of pcie4x16

[median marsh]

even my 3060 uses 16 lanes if it gets them

[wise elbow]

4060 is 8 lanes, even the ti

[median marsh]

ok, that may show a difference when restricted to pci ex3

[wise elbow]

pretty much any new AM5 motherboard will have pcie5 luckily

out of curiosity, why go from tr4 to AM5? you're gonna have like 1/3 the number of PCIE lanes for io

[delicate crystal]

the tr4 board is five years old, wanted to upgrade the video card and it sounds like the board would bottleneck that, and well I just figured AM5 was the next step (I'm woefully out ot touch when it comes to the hardware marketplace)

[orchid iron]

The 7900 xtx won't be restricted by your hardware, rest assured, very few niche cases in with you'd see it use all it's x16 lanes in the first place, x8 lanes of gen 4 is fine, so using x16 lanes of gen 3 is also fine

I'd reccomend waiting a bit longer as AM5 and the new Arrow in the Knee Intel socket are both still expensive, not really real world tested for 256gb (I trust in house testing as much as the next guy)
and still kinda unstable due to how bleeding edge it is, although getting more and more stable with each new driver and BIOS updates xD

If you have over 32 lanes to use in the PCIE slots, you could even run 2 7900 xtx or 1 7900 xtx and a extension card to add more SSDs connected to your CPU directly for blazing fast speeds

https://www.amazon.com/SABRENT-4-Drive-Bifurcation-Adapter-EC-P4BF/dp/B0C64FVVHY?crid=3OIHDSJNFM3H2&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.kLFnABxj-JjWC23LWWWnY-qYI0qhnfFgfKe5qLrsVGu4Vk6lLA_s1KAB-AcRAyZYPBxaCmZOyxdG4OWj3WBD3tVH5G_LBnbXebfoNEUOW4f97MgWPVIJOl6JbXJ1xmgOahT53N5SmjKALj6_As060eNbiwbnhMbtH1uoDTbRHZUgHlDVN6Jcaa3EAEfV0DvuznRstavSF6TeI2xZ-RU_gg.48OPaExK3iHn4Qiqth-HEdl8EVg7vDov-JbP-rOOv3Q&dib_tag=se&keywords=sabrent+ssd+extension+pcie+card&qid=1736755523&sprefix=sabrent+ssd+extension+pcie+card%2Caps%2C318&sr=8-4

Yeah, you could easily run 2 recent GPUs and also multiple extra ssd storage, BTW you can already have up to 256 GB of ram on your machine, so why are you looking at AM5? Because you have quad channel you'd get quite good performance out of the RAM over a dual channel system

Your CPU has 60 pcie lanes at gen 3, did you ever have more stuff plugged into the CPU that wasn't your GPU?

[delicate crystal]

not that I know of? I am running two ssd's as mention. A RAID card that's running a RAID 5. Nothing else that's leaping out at me.

[delicate crystal]

2 CPUs? Damn you must think I'm made of money 😄 But I wonder if doing two 16 GB cards would be more cost effectivet then doing one 24gB?

was mainly looking at AM5 because I thought it was the successor to what I had. Sounds like I may be in error and my past self over engineered things to my advantage?

[delicate crystal]

what would the niche cases be that you mentioned? I doubt that I'd run into them, but always good to know

[orchid iron]

I actually am not sure, because it would be a work load where a tone of data comes from the CPU into the GPU, but even that wouldn't really matter, the true issues would arise if it was a lot of data that goes from the GPU into the CPU at the same time, then it would truely be noticeable, but idk any workload that does that

[delicate crystal]

fair enough. More was trying to think of what it could be to see if it would be something that I might run into, but sounds like that's probably not a concern

[orchid iron]

Perhaps some extra storage would be interesting to you then, maybe a risky raid 0 set up perhaps for massive speeds

[delicate crystal]

ya one of the reasons for the upgrade is to kick the current SSD's that i'm using for the OS partition. 250 GB's on RAID 1 reaslly doesn't pass muster nowadays

[orchid iron]

Also, why don't you do 256gb of ram on your current setup?

[delicate crystal]

that's a very good question. I dont' know why, but I always thought 128 was the limit for my system. So ya that's going to be an upgrade for sure. I don't know if it'd matter for doing game development, but more memory never hurts

[orchid iron]

If you are doing game development while doing renders, it would be noticeable, or other dual workload types, otherwise not so much

[delicate crystal]

hmm ok. Basically unless I'm pushing things, it'd probably be a bit of overkill

[orchid iron]

If you compare threadripper to the consumer grade, it isn't a true successor, more like a side grade even though the architecture is brand new, I'd reccomend fully using (or mostly using) those ram slots and PCIE lanes before thinking your hardware is holding you back, extra faster storage is always nice, just like RAM and GPU upgrades, that's what so nice about building your own desktop

[orchid iron]

Yes it is, so you either pay more or use Linux xD

[delicate crystal]

well now I'm glad I bought 10 pro

[delicate crystal]

nice. So sounds like just updating the vid card, maxing the memory, updating the SSDs will give things a good kick in the ass. I'm assuming that going AMD isn't a bad thing considering how much nvidia markup is nowadays.

[orchid iron]

Yeah, main difference is going to be the software in the long run, NVIDIA does good software early but charges extra, AMD is doing okay software that will slowly improve overtime but has a good price for the hardware

[delicate crystal]

fair enough. Being a windows user, I'm used to meh software to start out 😄

no issues with stuff supported by nvidia that isn't by amd? I always remember raytracing being a thing, but I feel that's out of date

[orchid iron]

https://www.xfxforce.com/shop/xfx-mercury-amd-radeon-rx-7900-xtx-magneticair

[orchid iron]

It got better overtime, now the 7000 series has raytracing and tensor cores (AI) so it can work well, but the software still to mature a bit more to be on nvidia level

[orchid iron]

Sexiest 7900 xtx I found on the market, they even specify what thermal paste they use, absolute chads

[delicate crystal]

😄 ok ok you've sold me. I usually bought asus so this will be a different one for sure

should see how much this will be, but I'm thinking it'll be coming in at about 2k or so (vid card, memory, two ssd drives)

[orchid iron]

The removable fan make it trivially easy to clean and replace them, you could even ask XFX for new ones if they break, this card is min/Max to last as long as possible

[orchid iron]

That's pretty overpriced, where are you getting your supply?

[delicate crystal]

was doing it through pcpartpicker. Havent' seen what my local supplier would do. I'm also in Canada so there's that

[orchid iron]

Still better than Africa

It shouldn't be so high, even in Europe, all the stuff would cost around 1500 even if you went with 4T each ssd

[delicate crystal]

ya your'e not wrong. Will see what my local guy is offering. But ya prices up here are terrible. WE get the worst of Europe and the US

[orchid iron]

Check Amazon just in case

I got most of my parts from there, as long as you pick Amazon or a near 5 star seller to buy from, the delivery is very nice

[delicate crystal]

will give them a look as well. Had a few friends burnt through there so it was a bit leery, but your'e not wrong about vetting the sellers

[orchid iron]

Haven't used newegg, but heard they are okay, also if you are close enough to a microcenter maybe you could get some nice deals

There is also this site called "forward to me" never used it, but it may be useful if your prices are that bad, from reading the reviews people got problems due to trying to cheap out and putting the wrong item worth or type to save money but then having it be stuck in a warehouse for months

[orchid iron]

@delicate crystal BTW what cpu cooler do you use? Because Tj Max of your CPU is around 70 °C so if you are usually around there, you may be experiencing worse performance

[delicate crystal]

https://noctua.at/en/nh-u14s-tr4-sp3

[orchid iron]

man of culture

only 1 fan or 2?

[delicate crystal]

that I don't know

[orchid iron]

you don't know if there is only 1 fan on your cpu cooler? If there is only one, maybe an extra fan would help thermals

[wise elbow]

if it's been a long time since you installed it, repasting your cooler would probably give significant improvements

[jaunty horizon]

hello, I've got a question
i'm currently using a laptop in my place and want to use 2 ssd all the time
but my usb ports are all working so I thought using a usb hub may do the work for me

unfortunately, it was not - I could see the blue light on ssd (believe it gets electricity) but not recognized in system

any guess why this happens and pls suggest a solution if you got any
thanks!

[grave sundial]

How old is the laptop? Which USB ports does your laptop have - 1.0, 2.0, 3.0? Which OS are you using?

[jaunty horizon]

Thanks,
it is 3 years old, used c type, windows 10

[grave sundial]

Have you tested the SSDs on another computer?

[jaunty horizon]

oh it's 25 now, so now 4 years old lol

you mean each SSD? it works if i plug it to laptop directly

but through usb hub, negative

[grave sundial]

Oh, you are not plugging it into the laptop, but into a hub and then it fails?

Does the hub have high ampere usb inputs, or just low power usb inputs?

[jaunty horizon]

OH.... that's the point that i don't know

guess I need to check it out

would you pls tell me how can i know it is high/low?

like 5A is high enough

[grave sundial]

Modern USB hubs usually have a lightning symbol - like thunderbolt - above high powered usb ports.

[jaunty horizon]

so this is the hub

[grave sundial]

Yeah. That port on the bottom with the lightning symbol.

Try with that.

[jaunty horizon]

sad... now the blue light is gone

[grave sundial]

Might be a hub problem then.

https://www.amazon.in/TP-Link-TL-UH700-7-Port-USB-Black/dp/B00LI4O9EA

If you check the pics, you can see the lightning symbol on the 'powered' ports.

You put the 'high powered' devices into those.

[jaunty horizon]

oh yeah got what you mean