#career-chat

1 messages · Page 101 of 1

hallow stone
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Language syntax doesnt matter for the course. But the main thing is learning about data types, variables, functions, conditionals, loops, algorithms, data structures, design patterns, etc.

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Once you know how to think like a programmer, you can pick up any language/scripting.

vapid scaffold
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So I highly recommend the Stephen Ulibarri courses on Udemy. If you join his Discord, he gives coupons like every 2nd week - so they are also very cost effective. He has a intro to blueprint, followed by intro to C++ for game devs, then goes into a detailed C++ course followed by a c++ multiplayer course. I'm doing them at the moment - and they are exceptional value.

tame flicker
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I see, I'll look into finding some. I wasn't sure if I needed to learn C++ if I used exclusively blueprints but it may help me understand them better as you say. That does sound like my issue on why I'm not understanding why a blueprint does what it does, even if I know what blueprints to use.

hallow stone
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You dont need to learn C++ to make an Unreal game.

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Commercial games have been built only in blueprints

vapid scaffold
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just do the Intro to Blueprint course(s) available - some are free on YouTube - that will give you a good feel for it

tame flicker
tame flicker
hallow stone
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I would say take the udemy course Afrayedknot recommended.

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I used Mathew Wadstein's YouTube channel all the time to learn the blueprint api, and get a better understanding of what the functions do. Then it slowly comes together to where "oh i can use these sets of blueprint events/functions/macros with these variables and data structures to make these algorithms to make this game mechanic"

tame flicker
devout lava
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Linked in learning has unreal pathways. Anybody have any awareness of their usefulness

chilly sundial
dapper tusk
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Why do recruiters on LinkedIn say "LOL HIRING ALL ROLES URGENT URGENT SEND MESSAGE ASAP" and things and not respond when you message them. I generally only message if I'm qualified and have the experience for the role, it feels like they don't even look at the message half the time.

woeful iron
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that's just how a lot of recruiters work unfortunately

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especially external firms that do recruiting for others

plucky hatch
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wow

wary idol
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Don't think I would really recommend making a full game completely in BPs
It is definitely possible tho

chilly sundial
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The best combination imo is using both

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E.g. complex systems and helper functions in c++ that you can use in bp

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Not only is it better to prevent the whole bp spaghetti mess, but it also helps the ol hardware

hallow stone
steady pewter
plucky hatch
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I can’t imagine a studio/team that doesn’t have that knowledge however. But as an ‘employee’ or a ‘freelancer’ you can easily get by without knowing how to code, certainly as a designer, and depending on the project also on the technical side depending on the studio.

chilly sundial
shut token
steady pewter
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-like

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DS-like

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Forgot the name.

chilly sundial
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they were considering making elden ring in ue iirc

wary idol
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I remember it, I think it was even on community spotlight

I mean there are exceptions ofc
But it is not something I would recommend, for example fixing critical engine bugs which happen becomes impossible

steady pewter
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Ah, yeah... Definitely, C++ is "helpful". It just fluctuates with the needs of the project and the team capabilities.

spice swallow
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Hey, I’m looking for a place to get professional experience.

I have been programming with C++ for 3 years on small projects. I’ve written a linux X11 window manager, a genetic neural network to play snake, and used system level sockets to make a multiplayer pong game. I have a work in progress program that works like hamachi but uses P2P. I have come up with a method of compression that uses combinatorics, it doesn’t currently work but I believe I’m on to something. It uses a lot of math, so if someone is interested, reach out. I’m really enthusiastic about neural networks for physics, and have a small start in developing it.

I believe I have the skill and ability to work a real job, but I don't know where to start. I’ve just graduated high school and am going to college for computer science. I have nothing to show my abilities other than my small projects and what teachers have told me. My teacher, who is working on their masters degree at Georgia Tech, says I could pass his classes easier than him. If I truly have that ability, how can I prove it or what can I do to get meaningful experience?

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks!

plucky hatch
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Then try and work for a studio while you study at college to get some real world experience

pseudo veldt
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hey! my name is daniel, and i was hoping to get some advice. im now a highschool sophomore and have big dreams for the future, but i don’t know what to do or how to achieve them. for context im a 4.0 GPA student who takes all honors classes, and strives to succeed in school and in extracurriculars. my real dream is to go into game development / game art, and possibly start my own company at some point. it’s been my dream since 2nd or 3rd grade and i have tons of works and prototypes and renders to show for it. my dream college is the university of southern california, but the big problem is it’s really expensive and a private school, and really far away… i really want to go there for it’s beautiful campus and world renowned game development program, being in LA with huge studios i could go to for internships and jobs possibly, but i have no idea how to make my dream come true, or if it’s even something i need to worry about right now… what should i do? do i even have a chance?

plucky hatch
pseudo veldt
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im just worried im not good enough to make it into a school as good as USC, my family loves the things i have made, and i look at what i make with pride, but when i show it to my friends and stuff, they’re a little disappointed and always kinda just ignore me or move on… i guess my work isn’t good enough

plucky hatch
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So you may have your heart set on USC but remember your competition doesn’t, and many of them will be honing their craft and working as juniors while you are studying, you will enter work at least 3 years after them and they will be your competition, with three years more than you in the portfolio.

pseudo veldt
plucky hatch
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Its almost entirely portfolio and performance based.

pseudo veldt
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but wouldn’t school give me the work experience/portfolio i need?

plucky hatch
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No

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Some schools more than others of course, but generally no, especially in this post Covid world.

wary idol
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Experience is far more valued than any degree
Someone can have a degree and be worse than someone without it

plucky hatch
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Its more common to pay for a short skill course such as one year at Gnomon etc. Skill up, portfolio up, be confident, get a job.

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The last 6 people I hired don’t have a degree, they all did short 1-2 year courses.

pseudo veldt
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then what the hell am i supposed to do after highschool? i can’t just stay with my parents for years

plucky hatch
wary idol
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Also I would rant about the whole idea of having to move out from your parent's place as soon as possible that people try to force on you

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It's stupid

plucky hatch
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Yeah, unless you don’t get on with them and you live in a tiny house take it as a blessing 😂

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I long for the days when I didn’t have to give a hell 😬

pure kettle
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And here I am wishing to move away even further from my parents as soon as possible

plucky hatch
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My electricity went up 12% this year, Im Regretting these 3090’s 😩

pure kettle
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I don't mind paying for electricity if it means better mental health

plucky hatch
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I dropped out of University and in 15 years only one job asked me for qualifications and I got that job anyway because my portfolio was ok.

pseudo veldt
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so, school is basically worthless if game development is the career im after?

plucky hatch
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And that’s not an uncommon thing, it was just the company I was hiring for was very old school and didn’t understand how a designer would not have a masters since it’s the normal in this country since BA and MA is free.

wary idol
# pure kettle And here I am wishing to move away even further from my parents as soon as possi...

Depends on what the relationship with your parents is like
I have a good relationship with them (I'm 22 btw), we were broke (lived relatively fine but couldn't afford anything) pretty much throughout my whole childhood and I'm now finally able to financially help them and provide a normal life
Planning on building a new house for myself and them in the coming year or 2

For me that's a much better option than moving out and living on my own

royal lintel
pure kettle
plucky hatch
royal lintel
# pseudo veldt so, school is basically worthless if game development is the career im after?

I wouldn't say it's worthless. Just to offer an alternative perspective, I found that some of the relationships I made in college were pretty important. Even outside of general learning, having a space that you can try to work with like-minded individuals (hopefully) without the stress of a real job can be a good thing. Is it worth $$$$? Depends on you and where you end up going.

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It also depends on how self-driven you are. Some people do an amazing job at building things and learning on their own. Others may have the same potential but don't match it unless in an environment that fosters such a thing.

plucky hatch
wary idol
royal lintel
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Right, I agree with you.

plucky hatch
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Indeed I think we were all in agreement just clarifying for the others,

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I also made some very good links, friends, social fun despite dropping out, I don’t regret the three years I spent even though I didn’t end up with anything on paper, but that was my route at least.

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I would do it all again given the chance,

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Only that it’s never mattered if I did or didn’t, and as a hiring manager now for almost 8 years in three countries and many companies we never even ask about qualifications.

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Not to say that’s universal, I know in certain places it’s more of an issue.

royal lintel
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I'd say once you get your first "real" job this stuff stops mattering. Getting your foot in the door once is the hardest part.

plucky hatch
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Indeed, and when I became a University lecturer despite not having a degree that’s what I always said to my classes, this is to get you your first job, by the second they will never ask, and if you get a good offer while you are here don’t thing twice about dropping out (if you weigh it up and it works)

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Most schools will also do something called ‘interrupted study’, at least in the EU, where you can basically freeze your education for 12 months and come back where you started.

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At the discression of your tutor of course, but what I have learnt working in education is that its all negotiable 👀 they just want the cash at the end of the day

green oyster
# pseudo veldt but wouldn’t school give me the work experience/portfolio i need?

I always wanted to do game art, but zero colleges that did that at the time here. I chose Product Design instead and learned by myself meanwhile, then got jobs in 3D, related, until I found a studio. Nowadays, that studio hires a lot of people after internships / summer training camps or courses they hold for 2-3 months at universities

woeful iron
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the good thing about degrees is, it makes it a lot easier for international visas and stuff for international jobs

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just a little extra thing

obtuse blade
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Unfortunately for a lot of people they still net more interviews overall, even if it is outdated

plucky hatch
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hey guys

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my classmate said that he will probably treat game dev as a hobby instead of pursuing a career into it

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why do you guys think some people don't have the confidence to pursue a career in the game industry?

craggy nacelle
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This sounds like a question you should have asked your classmate

plucky hatch
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I know its gonna be hard but I might aswell try and I have a Plan B if it doesn't workout

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damn

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I have heard horror stories about the working conditions but Im assuming its not like that everywhere

royal lintel
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Places exist. They're few and far between, and even at a studio that pays well there are often contract positions that don't (which makes getting a well-paying FTE position difficult).

hallow stone
# plucky hatch I know its gonna be hard but I might aswell try and I have a Plan B if it doesn...

Yes its good to have a Plan B and goto school to learn skills that are applicable in multiple industries (tech, marketing, finance, business, vfx, etc).
Not everyone can break into games because its art/entertainment, and entry level / intern positions are highly competitive.
On the creative side, companies are looking for a particular technical or artistic skillset, which is why portfolio is so important.
Yes, you tend to make more money in tech or bank/finance and the work is more stable.
Working conditions vary from company to company.

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The most common reasons people leave are compensation or working conditions.
I left games QA because of the super low pay, and i didn't want to pursue a that career further.

plucky hatch
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when you say super low do you mean it never goes up with time and experience

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?

woeful iron
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people in games just get paid less than people doing similar jobs outside of games

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cause games are passion

green oyster
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At least here, for 3D art it's not applicable 😅 it's either gameart, product renders or archviz. I did the last 2 and they paid less

woeful iron
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yeah, talking about software engineering

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idk how artist life is

plucky hatch
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well i cant see myself doing something that i dont like

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but im assuming 3D artist pays more than QA tester

woeful iron
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QA testing is not as fun as you probably think it is

chilly sundial
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Got that myth dissected a while ago personally

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I was told its less
"Play games before everyone and earn money"
And more
"Run into these specific corners for 10 minutes and see if you clip. Once youre done fill in the feedback form"

woeful iron
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of course

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you're meant to explicitely try to break the game

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you don't just play it

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you test every possible scenario a bunch of times

chilly sundial
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Yeaj

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Like normal software testing

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Try and break it

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The feedback is for "This playstyle is my favourite" i imagine is left more for public betas

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I imagine

plucky hatch
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lol

plucky hatch
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It was ok I kinda enjoyed it but the company I worked for was wack

plucky hatch
# plucky hatch but im assuming 3D artist pays more than QA tester

I always advise if you are in a creative field to peruse what you enjoy, rather than the money. If you are enjoying it then you will be putting a lot more effort it (effortlessly) and the financial rewards will come naturally, or at least easier than if you want to just 'work in games' for the sake of it.
You can get a lot of money on the design side, moreso if you are very passionate about it. However working in non-games (Enterprise) is a lot lot more money but basically doing the same thing.
Becoming a 3D artist is also very difficult and competitive no matter what field you work in, you will need to get your graft on for several years before your even at a junior level. In 15 years I've seen less than 5 people get real work with less than 2 years hard practice.

pure kettle
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Also some enterprise work (I think largely depends on which department you're working on) can have more crunch, and it can affect your health.

plucky hatch
hallow stone
# plucky hatch when you say super low do you mean it never goes up with time and experience

State minimum wage went up two dollars in the time i was a tester. Internal raise at highest level compared to starting tester was like 75cents. There was also some bullshit internal merit system that i somehow didn't qualify for that gets you like another 50 cents.
Hundreds of ppl from all backgrounds and levels of education (high school to masters degree) who wanted to work in games so they put up with the low pay to do it.
Got promoted to qa prod and made like 5 more dollars than my qa tester peers for more work and responsibilities. I also didn't get the training or support i needed to do well in my new position. So i left and got a software job so i could start paying off my student loans.

green oyster
fair tendon
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Hey guys I'm going to school for game development. Does anyone have any advice to get into an apprenticeship? I'm in West Virginia so tech jobs are scarce and it's proving difficult finding anything remote.

plucky hatch
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I just wanna do something I like

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Im sure i wont be living in a box while I work as a QA Tester lol

shut token
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Don't be so sure.

hallow stone
hallow stone
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They pay might be better now cuz of the recent unionization efforts / corporate counter union efforts. But cost of living has gone up as well.

violet escarp
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I have a question guys. Who has an idea of how it is to work at ubisoft atlanta? Do they have crunch times?

shut token
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AAA company? Most likely. Especially Ubisoft.

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Crunch is a staple of the industry. Go in with the idea that you will be crunching.

violet escarp
shut token
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Can vary wildly. 12 hours, 18 hours, etc...

violet escarp
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Wow!! 18?? Getting into the studio at 8am and leaving at 4am in the morning? 😅

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wow!

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lol!

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How about lionheart games?

royal lintel
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That's a bit on the extreme side, weekend work with only slightly longer regular days is probably a bit more common.

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Still not a good thing, but 12+ hour days shouldn't be that common.

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Absolutely.

violet escarp
royal lintel
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No, it's not the norm.

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Crunch in general isn't the norm. It's something that generally happens over a limited period of time, but what "limited" means depends on the studio.

violet escarp
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How often are crunch times? Like twice a month? once a month?

royal lintel
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it's not a recurring thing

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it's generally in the time leading up to a release

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A couple of weeks leading up to release is incredibly common no matter where you are - and I wouldn't say that's even a bad thing. The issue is studios that do it for over a month at a time (if not month_s_) and not just for release.

violet escarp
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So for a studio like ubisoft for instance, how many times in a year can one expect crunch for instance?

royal lintel
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It's impossible to say without asking someone who works there.

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None of us are going to know the exact details about Ubisoft's work culture except from hearsay. Go look at glassdoor or similar, or find someone willing to talk to you that works/has worked there.

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This is also the purpose of interviews - if you're actively interviewing for a studio you need to remember that they're not just trying to see if they like you, you're also being given an opportunity to ask them questions.

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I wouldn't take a recruiter's word on this stuff but it's one more data point.

fair tendon
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still in school here but i will say it seems people at ubisoft like working there. i think the only complaints ive see nfrom research is its a little underpaid for a company that size.

royal lintel
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I agree - that's why I said "it's one more data point"

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Yeah, it's more a question of whether you're underpaid relative to the industry. You're almost definitely underpaid compared to tech in general.

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Outliers notwithstanding.

violet escarp
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I'm guessing ubisoft is an outlier?

royal lintel
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Why would you guess that?

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I don't think we've said anything either way here, so unless you personally know something about them I wouldn't assume anything.

violet escarp
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I saw them write on their site that they offer competitive salary

royal lintel
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everyone writes that

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it means literally nothing

violet escarp
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Wow lol

royal lintel
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Almost every company has something like that on their jobs page

violet escarp
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haha! i see

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Thanks for the insight guys!

fair tendon
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ubisoft seems like a really cool company to work for. they really push for development in the industry evn for no employees like setting up communities for game devs. having said that it seems people still complain about workload vs pay. alot places ive seen complain about leadership and top down stuff but ubisoft its mostly just pay

royal lintel
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Unfortunately for Colorado there are very few tech companies and studios out there so it didn't do much. Maybe for other industries, idk.

shut token
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Atlanta, so USA, so like no worker protections 🤣

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They probably didn't. And they're still trying to push NFTs last I heard.

royal lintel
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I thought they gave up

violet escarp
shut token
fair tendon
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all that could be focus on the cleanup tbh i just started looking into them about a year ago

violet escarp
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Do you guys have an idea of ordinary working hours for ubisoft? like how many hours a day is the norm?

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i saw something to do with this today

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sad

shut token
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If you ask 3 more times, maybe a genie will come up and tell you.

violet escarp
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hahaha! @shut token

fair tendon
violet escarp
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i see

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loving the insights

royal lintel
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I'll repeat the answer I gave earlier: no one here is going to be able to answer about exact working conditions without having worked there. Not to mention "ubisoft" is a big company and experiences will vary depending on location and position.

hallow stone
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Blood, Sweat, and Pixels is also a good read

violet escarp
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Glassdoor says good work/life balance 😄

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that's true?

royal lintel
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no one here is going to be able to answer about exact working conditions without having worked there

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if you're not understanding the implication, none of us talking now have worked there or are willing to say whether we've worked there

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so we don't know

violet escarp
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By the way, i've always wondered on this

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How come non-gamedev is usually better paid and got more decent working hours?

royal lintel
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Because gamedev, for better or worse, is a "passion" driven industry. Lots of people want to get into it, not a huge number of "good" positions.

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The result is companies can pay less.

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This isn't quite true for super specialized positions or when you get into much higher level bands, but at entry to mid-level this will generally hold up.

violet escarp
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i see. That explains the pay. How about the non-game dev hours? How come they are more decent than game dev?

royal lintel
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Same reason.

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Companies don't need to push back their timelines because they know people will work them.

shut token
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Well, I'll give you $5. So, if that's, generously, 60% of what you normally earn - then I can bump that $5 up to $16.

violet escarp
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Hmm... makes sense

violet escarp
royal lintel
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no

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not even remotely

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specifically, it's a failure of planning and reacting to changes during development

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planning isn't always perfect and that's fine, but not having that accounted for in a schedule is a problem. And not delaying or cutting things when it isn't accounted for is when you get crunch.

violet escarp
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So non-game dev companies have better planning......

royal lintel
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not necessarily

shut token
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the kind of gamedev jobs I usually get
You get spammed with low-paying jobs (IE - mine would be $5). 60% of 5 is 3. So you normally get paid $8. So I will double that for $16.

royal lintel
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but gamedev tends to have long unpredictable timelines, and are less willing to delay something.

violet escarp
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i see

shut token
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gamedev also has a lot of external moving parts (such as already planned marketing windows)

royal lintel
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Which is true of other software industries too, but they tend to not be as reliant on a sometimes-rabid fanbase.

violet escarp
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Good talk. Very informative. Thanks y'all!

fair tendon
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im still in school and this is some of the best research ive come across lol im just absorbing right now

violet escarp
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Btw... any leads on discord groups with software dev opportunities? Especially C++

royal lintel
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discord definitely wouldn't be my first choice for looking for a job. Outside of like random tiny commissions.

fair tendon
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what do you mean investments? im mostly just looking for a job to start getting my foot in the door with some experience

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im so sorry you lost me. in relatio nto whta exactly

shut token
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Stock market and things like that.

fair tendon
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oh yeah i was in the air force for 6 years they made us do classes on being money smart lol im the second income in the house so money isnt to big of an issue id take a unpaid internship at this point if it meant id learn some more practical stuff

shut token
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unpaid - gross

fair tendon
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lol im in WV so pickings are slim

shut token
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Dang - you actually have internet in WV?

fair tendon
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lol 150 is max here. fiber one day i hope. or get a job landed thatll let me move

shut token
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In the like 25+ years I've been on the internet...I think I've met like 3 people who live in WV.

fair tendon
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i got out and worked for NSA in maryland and then for some reason came back. ragrets

violet escarp
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So where would you find the C++ ones? Also, do you work in a non-game dev firm? 😉

fair tendon
shut token
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Remote work for a junior is already difficult enough to find. And that's for non-gamedev. Gamedev remote work is even more rare from what I've seen.

violet escarp
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Nice. Was looking to start with a few remote. Any leads?

fair tendon
violet escarp
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oh okay. No prob

fair tendon
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thats what i was wondering when i applied to ubisoft in Cary NC it was remote but i was wondering if you still had to be in NC

violet escarp
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Nice!

fair tendon
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one of EAs battlefield 2042 temas were doing remote internships i think the deadlines passed though

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ripple effect formally dice la

royal lintel
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It's hard to say what "remote" means because it's really up to the company to figure out what laws they want to deal with in what localities. Bungie, for example, has an explicit list of where they support remote right now because they know they can support whatever laws apply in those locations.

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So whether you need to move or not entirely depends on the position and company.

fair tendon
royal lintel
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I expect it might become more common, but its a very new thing for many companies.

fair tendon
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im only halfway through my degree its more game dev focused than design so i havnt even seen Unreal or anything but vis studio in my classes. should i teach myself unreal or focus more on other coding stuff like sql or getting better at using Git?

half shale
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Anyone else feel like, you wanna go back to the office, but you wouldn't want to work somewhere that was MAKING people go back to the office?

royal lintel
serene crystal
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It should be optional but offices can be cool

royal lintel
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I prefer working in an office but like having the flexibility of not having to be there all the time.

fair tendon
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anyone who works as a C++ developer what tools do you use on the daily?

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or C# i guess

royal lintel
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yeah but what about vs

fair tendon
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pretty much solely?

serene crystal
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I often use my keyboard

fair tendon
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lol

half shale
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I just feel like, making employees go in when they don't want to says a lot of bad things about a company, even if i"m personally ok with that specific order I dont wanna be bossed around

serene crystal
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Actual answer: for UE dev we generally recommend using one of the 3 different paid intellisense replacements

royal lintel
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I agree

serene crystal
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I guess he did just say c++

half shale
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what VS version do people use?

royal lintel
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whatever version the studio requires, but probably 2022 + whatever compiler

half shale
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I mean like, ultimate or whatever

fair tendon
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right i guess im just curious what a day in the job looks like so ik now what im getting into and when i feel im ready to start applying.

royal lintel
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if you're working solo you use community

serene crystal
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Community until licensing says no

royal lintel
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if you're not you use whatever license the company provides

half shale
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Nah I'm on my own for now

royal lintel
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then use community

fair tendon
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ive got professional through school

half shale
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Plus even when I'm not, I'll probably be the only code guy for a whiiiiile. I need to hire artists mostly.

fair tendon
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youve been awesome thank you so much.

royal lintel
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iirc the community license is <= 5 people actively using VS. Artists wouldn't count against it.
But please don't take my advice on that, read the license yourself because iirc it says this pretty clearly.

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there are some other limitations around how big the company is

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yeah

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only the devs part really affects anyone doing indie/solo stuff. Still good to read the license though.

half shale
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Does publisher funding count as revenue?

royal lintel
half shale
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Thanks. Generally I like blueprints a lot but there's a couple here that should realllly be transcoded to C++

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I just didn't wanna do it before the UE5 upgrade

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Oh nothing at this point.

fair tendon
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if anyone's working on any personal projects they want to let me help with let me know. like i said im just looking for some practical learning outside of school.

plucky hatch
#

ill try to apply in an actual game dev company

#

So i can start making connections? 🤷‍♂️

#

but then again

#

You can argue that getting a QA job in its self is not a guarantee

plucky hatch
#

I mean would it not be better to just get a regular stress free job and work on your portfolio rather than work QA, have a high workload and low pay and have even less time to work on a portfolio?

#

Its more sensible to make a 2-5 year plan and stick to that rather than trying to do two competitive things at the same time.

plucky hatch
#

there's a studio that wants to hire me actually

#

they said whenever you want give us a call

#

its full time

#

40 hours a week

#

so you're telling me I wont have the time to work on my portfolio after work and weekends?

#

they will pay me more than minimum wage they said

#

since I have 2 years of experience already

#

but again

#

the pay doesnt matter much rn cuz im planning to do some things behind the scenes for extra cash

#

lol call me crazy but I actually enjoy doing QA work

pure kettle
half shale
#

Does anyone know, if I'm working on a game prototype that I'll pitch to publishers but I haven't yet registered an LLC, can I write off business expenses when tax time comes?

plucky hatch
#

The entire point of said llc.

still nymph
#

Yes you can the same way a contractor can write off business expenses without establishing an official entity. Its just easier to manage with a business bank account if you have many transactions

woeful iron
#

might want to talk to professionals about this instead of a gamedev discord

craggy nacelle
#

Yep this depends 100% on your local tax legislation^

mortal zodiac
#

Does anyone know an experienced UE5 developer/engineer in Queensland, Australia (or just Australia as a second choice)?

steady pewter
mortal zodiac
#

Thanks @steady pewter

kind relic
#

hey I was wondering if there's any game devs that have experience working/getting a job in the industry if I can just ask a couple of questions for my portfolio, if you have some free time id appreciate it if you messaged me thanks

pure kettle
woeful iron
#

just post question here in the chat

#

@kind relic

#

many eyes better than one pair

woeful iron
#

I would make your link to github more prominent, it's hard to notice, I thought it was just a footnote at first

#

e.g. just adding the github logo in front of it might already help

#

also I think you need to be more concrete about what you learned and what you used, more in bulletpoints than in one long text

#

you could maybe even make a subpage per project to showcase more details and maybe videos/screenshots

#

having a video instead of a gif is nice cause then you can pause/rewind stuff if you want

#

also, typo in your about section

#

As a student I'm a beginner programmer and developer but trough my time
should be through

#

but even better would be "during my time"

#

I think it's just a lot of text at once

#

and ideally you'd have some more content on it in general

#

one unity feature and a GM game is very hard to judge someone's capacity on

#

of course this is all subjective

#

based on what I did for my portfolio

#

(a bit outdated by now)

kind relic
#

on first look its already impressive:)

#

thank you btw, thats very helpful

violet escarp
#

@charred sentinel So i've seen microsoft also have game departments. Do those departments have crunch times as well?

woeful iron
shut token
#

Just go in with the idea that crunch will exist. Ask about it in your interviews. Then decide based on that.

steady pewter
#

"Aah, yea, we crunch hard here - you will like it"

woeful iron
#

tbh sometims they put out the feelers like "Well if there's a deadline coming up we really try our best to reach our goals" or some shit like that

violet escarp
violet escarp
shut token
#

CDPR did like a year long crunch. A bit on the more extreme side, yes. But it can still happen.

#

Crunch. Will. Happen.

#

Just expect it.

#

The only way for you to know if company X does no crunch, good crunch, or bad crunch, is if you work for them directly. Or if you can meet someone who actually works for the company.

plucky hatch
violet escarp
violet escarp
craggy nacelle
#

Do people in gamedev live so much paycheck-to-paycheck that they can't afford to just say no to unhealthy crunch...

green oyster
#

at least at my old studio, most of the time it was pretty great, but yes, occasionally poor leadership decision and there was a bit of overtime. We did it because it was 1-2 months at most and it always returned to normal

woeful iron
#

but I didn't have any social life and they gave free pizza and you could use that overtime as holidays so was happy to oblige

serene crystal
woeful iron
#

after 4 months and a bit I took up 2 full weeks of holiday just on overtime

#

easy

#

but I wouldn't do that anymore

craggy nacelle
#

Yeah personally I wouldn't mind overtime if it doesn't get ridiculous and I got paid for it... unpaid overtime? oh yeah no, not happening lol

woeful iron
#

yeah unpaid overtime = bye bye job

compact night
serene crystal
#

Apologies to @trail flint if linking your portfolio is rude

kind relic
violet escarp
violet escarp
craggy nacelle
#

Depends on where you live and what you're comparing against

#

And what's the work life balance

woeful iron
#

making a 100k where I live would be some king shit

craggy nacelle
#

in SF Bay Area 100k is not terrible but not great, but in a lot of places that is a ton of money yeah

green oyster
#

is that net or gross?

plucky hatch
royal lintel
#

100k is lower than entry level for a full time position at any of the big tech companies on the west coast. It's not bad, but it certainly isn't good.

woeful iron
#

everyone assuming everyone works in america at FAANG smh

royal lintel
#

Given the context of SF and what COL is like there it's really not a stretch.

craggy nacelle
#

Yeah I was just using it as an example of where 100k is not that great

#

as said, depends on location and what it's being compared to :)

#

for comparison I think one guy that was a jr level intern at our company (in Vancouver) got a job at Amazon for around 160k I think

#

We can't really match that so it's a bit of an issue sometimes with what people expect to be paid :P

#

(not a games company)

shut token
#

But unfortunately - it's Amazon. lol. I'll take my boring non-FAANG job that pays pretty well.

royal lintel
#

Yeah I wouldn't expect smaller companies to always match that kind of pay but it's worth noting the $100k figure wasn't starting salary, they said it was average salary.

#

Which is much worse.

#

Though I guess it depends on what positions that includes.

#

Some lower paying positions are probably skewing that

craggy nacelle
#

Yeah

violet escarp
#

i see

#

Taking notes

woeful iron
#

what kind of notes

violet escarp
#

Learning a lot here from all this conversation. They've been very insightful!

woeful iron
#

faang good money, games bad money ✅

violet escarp
#

faang decent work time, games bad work times ❌

#

That's another thing I've picked up from these discussions

woeful iron
#

it all depends where you work though

violet escarp
woeful iron
#

how am I supposed to work

#

I have worked neither at a faang or faang-like company, nor in a AAA games studio

violet escarp
#

cool

plucky hatch
#

There are also many companies using Unreal that are neither game studios or faang and pay very well dont forget. So dont limit your choices depending on what you want to do.

royal lintel
violet escarp
#

Nice! But as for the xbox crunch, it's still more than the rest of MS right?

royal lintel
#

It depends on team. There isn't really a generalization to make - a large part of Xbox isn't even working on games.

#

Platform, services, developer experience, APIs, etc... Studios is only a part of the division.

violet escarp
#

I see. Very nice

mellow adder
#

Hi, I got offered a Unreal Engine Developer position and was wondering if I can find articles of people talking about their experiences working on Unreal. Thanks.

#

I am talking about actually working on the Unreal Engine codebase

steady pewter
#

The whole server is mostly sharing experience: "Welp! Wtf? Nice." etc.

#

But you may check out also the Epic's YT, sometimes they invite devs.

mellow adder
#

ohh, that's true

#

thanks i will check it out

violet escarp
#

Do graphics programmers also experience crunch times?

#

Last question for today i promise 😄

plucky hatch
#

Crunch time is not a new thing nor is it just related to working with games. All deadline based tasks can suffer from it, everywhere I have worked for 15 years has had it.
Its all dependant on the company and the management, that will dictate how bad the deadlines are.

violet escarp
#

Yeah. It's everywhere. But what i was asking is if it's as bad as it is for gameplay programmers since I hear they are the ones who experience the worst crunch times as compared to other industries

pure kettle
steel creek
#

I had crunch time working restaurants 6 days a week, 15 hour shifts. Crunch time is relative.

brave forge
#

I'm not sure the point you are trying to make. "That industry is worse so no industry should improve"?

#

Anyway, it's true all jobs have busy periods. Accountants at tax time, couriers in the holidays. The key thing is make sure it's kept as short as possible, and it's paid.

pure kettle
#

There's a reason I specifically said "unpaid crunch"
Aside from me experiencing it myself, unpaid crunch can take a toll on both physical and mental health.

brave forge
#

I have a feeling you have someone blocked. I was responding to someone else with that first comment

pure kettle
#

Nope. I actually referring to both of you.

#

I only block those who are directly being a jerk.

steel creek
brave forge
#

being short staffed, or poorly planning a deadline and then expecting staff to stay on for weeks or months on end sacrificing their health and relationships is a "human condition"?

#

I believe overtime and crunch are different and sometimes overtime is unavoidable. But I believe people should be paid for their time on the job, which both reimburses people for their efforts and provides an on-paper penalty for employers to avoid crunch. Crunch is much easier to justify to bad management when there is no tangible cost

royal lintel
#

This was also a discussion about the game industry relative to other similarly-staffed industries. Working restaurants is not relevant to that discussion.

#

Yes, "crunching" in a restaurant sucks. No, it's not relevant to whether and why the game industry has more crunch than other software industries.

#

Additionally, restaurant workers (frontline workers, not administrative types) are not "exempt" in the US, meaning they get overtime pay. Programming jobs are exempt which means overtime pay is not required when salaried.

woeful iron
#

also, if you have crunch and you don't like it, just get another job if you can

#

you only have to endure as much as you accept

#

note the "if you can" part, of course if you're in financial struggle and can't have a new job within a short period, that's a different story

violet escarp
# royal lintel Platform, services, developer experience, APIs, etc... Studios is only a part of...

@royal lintel , i have another question just popped up!!! Since we're talking about crunch. So i get that the crunch times for people in the game industry is intense, especially for gameplay programmers, artists etc people who are directly involved in the gameplay mechanics and stories. So how about people like the server backend engineers? The guys who work on the game database and all. Are their crunch times as intense? Thoughts?

woeful iron
#

well there would be deployment needs of what the others are doing as well I guess

violet escarp
#

I'm also willing to listen to other people's thoughts on this 🙂

woeful iron
#

so it depends

#

but we have some devops server people that would literally sleep in the office to make sure the servers were up on time and stuff

violet escarp
pure kettle
violet escarp
#

I'm not even looking at pay by the way. My main point is just looking at how the crunch times are

pure kettle
#

I had my moments of sleeping in the office because of crunch, just to get shit payroll, which means those midnight crunch worth nothing.

woeful iron
#

it all just depends a lot on where you work

pure kettle
#

I guess crunch work is less welcomed in Far West even if it's paid well.

#

Mind you, I'm not glorifying crunch work, but the extra work time has to be rewarded accordingly. Unpaid crunch, however, shouldn't be okay.

violet escarp
#

cool

steel creek
steel creek
royal lintel
#

Ok, but we're not talking about trying to solve the problems of the world.

steel creek
#

yes you are actually. Software development is pretty much world problem solving

#

but trying to boil it off to "games dev bad!" because of things like crunch -- nah, that is a global issue

royal lintel
#

That's incredibly reductive.

#

I guess we shouldn't try to solve any problems in the industry because lots of others have it worse! What kind of BS is that.

steel creek
#

as is the entire argument about it being a game dev problem

#

I never said that LOL

#

stuff words in mouths is not arguing

royal lintel
#

No, it's about it being a gamedev problem relative to other software industries

steel creek
#

and again, its in all industries

#

relative is relative to nothing. its everywhere

pure kettle
#

What's the pool prize for the most accumulated work suffering?

royal lintel
#

Holy shit man, we're not talking about all industries.

steel creek
#

relative to other software industries

#

seems like you are

steel creek
royal lintel
#

If I'm a software engineer then there are a few industries that I'm likely to go into. In general, the working conditions for the game industry will be worse than the other possibilities open to me. That's what we're talking about.

#

Restaurant industry, warehouses, anything else is completely irrelevant to the conversation

pure kettle
#

I mean, this convo is starting to get nowhere, you guys.

steel creek
royal lintel
#

Yes, there are.

steel creek
#

but yes, talk about reductive. SWE is not just GAMES. LOL

royal lintel
#

No one said it was.

steel creek
#

If I'm a software engineer then there are a few industries that I'm likely to go into.

#

auto, aero, space, security, ...

royal lintel
#

Sure

steel creek
#

Software is everywhere

royal lintel
#

And generally software engineers are very well paid and treated well (with localized exceptions of course). On average, the game industry is worse.

steel creek
#

in your experience. My experience is not the same. If you want to start using actual stats, we can do that instead of feels

chilly sundial
#

And seeing as the original question was about gamedev wouldnt it be more appropriate to use that, as we have been doing rather than saying "but aerospace"?

royal lintel
#

I mean, just about every industry survey shows lower wages than other "tech" sector averages. And I'm not the one bringing up working in warehouses and restaurants as comparison to... being a software engineer.

steel creek
royal lintel
#

No one claimed this is purely a gamedev problem.

chilly sundial
#

Saying that it is more prevalent somewhere is not saying it isnt in other places

#

A butchers sells more meat than other shops, does that now mean only butchers sell meat?

woeful iron
#

who said it was only gamedev lol

royal lintel
#

I dunno

steel creek
#

2:27 PM] Echaminya: Do graphics programmers also experience crunch times?

#

sorry, I moved on with the conversation

woeful iron
#

all that was said is that in general gamedev people make less money than "generic" software engineers

steel creek
#

I also find it weird two other people pointed out the same observation, yet, here we are.

woeful iron
#

you're having a conversation with yourself at this point though

royal lintel
#

???

steel creek
#

this is the conversation I am referring to -- if you responded cause you took something out of context, /shrug

#

there are many "conversations" here

chilly sundial
#

You went on a tangent about the human condition when we were just saying it tends to be worse in games...

steel creek
#

it was a tangent to prove the point I previously made after being attacked on it

royal lintel
#

You specifically brought up restaurants and warehouses in a conversation about working in the game industry.

woeful iron
#

what point?

steel creek
#

literally the one I just posted

chilly sundial
#

We have very different definitions of attaxk

woeful iron
#

no one in that screenshot said what you claim

steel creek
#

I echod that it ISNT JUST GAMES

chilly sundial
#

And that wasnt relevant to the question

woeful iron
#

the last message which I guess you're talking about is litearlly a question

steel creek
#

literally said as an echo to the conversation I already re-posted

royal lintel
#

Which isn't relevant to the conversation because the question is whether some positions in games are worse than their equivalents elsewhere.

chilly sundial
#

And it is

royal lintel
#

Even if it wasn't that response wouldn't be appropriate.

steel creek
#

the fact you cant follow that, then had me "explain" what I meant to get here is the problem you think you have 😄

woeful iron
#

not saying crunch is unique to games

#

just that it is prevalent

steel creek
#

but here is a thought; since you are all hot and bothered by what I said, is there a reason you keep going with it? Or is there some new game in career chat I missed?

woeful iron
#

lol what

#

who is hot and bothered

chilly sundial
#

I dont get all the psuedo-toxicity but the point remains that what you are saying is not answering the question

woeful iron
#

I think you overestimate people's reactions to what you are saying

royal lintel
#

Attacking others because you don't like their response isn't a great way to go.

steel creek
# woeful iron lol what

well, you bring up relevance in here. And yet, the relevance of this conversation is 100% worthless in the career chat

woeful iron
#

getting strong 14 year old vibes

steel creek
#

as is evident here

chilly sundial
#

Opening a dialogue is not getting hot and bothered. I get typing is often misunterpreted in terms of emotions

royal lintel
#

Questioning your response's relevance to a discussion is not attacking your person.

chilly sundial
steel creek
royal lintel
#

I guess we're not allowed to disagree with you

#

Because otherwise we're attacking you.

steel creek
#

nor I with you apparently

royal lintel
#

You're perfectly allowed to disagree with what I said, but calling people mad over it isn't furthering any discussion.

steel creek
#

I didnt call you mad, I said stay mad 😄

chilly sundial
#

Basic skills of inference say that is calling someone mad

steel creek
#

Mad can mean crazy

chilly sundial
#

You cannot stay mad if you are not already mad

steel creek
chilly sundial
#

More of the pseudo toxicity

woeful iron
#

that literally changes nothing though

steel creek
chilly sundial
#

How have i been toxic

woeful iron
#

stay mad implies that you are already mad, no matter the definition

steel creek
#

you do understand that you are doing what you claim I am?

#

you are doing nothing here now other than trying to provoke 😄

chilly sundial
#

My responses were collected and factual, i never dropped a 'stay mad broski'

woeful iron
steel creek
#

you can stop anytime. promise. Like me, right now, going to actually do adult work 😄

steel creek
woeful iron
#

didn't know 14yo did adult work

pure kettle
woeful iron
#

yes

chilly sundial
#

Apparantly so

#

Anyway cant this guy get tos banned or smthn, clearly under 13

steel creek
shut token
#

"Hey ya'll, how bad is crunch in the game industry?"
"I did crunch in the restaurant industry"
🤔

chilly sundial
steel creek
pure kettle
#

<@&213101288538374145> uncivil convo

chilly sundial
#

We arent saying it usnt

#

Someone asked if it is worse in gameplay compared to other tech industries

steel creek
shut token
#

I ain't arguing anything.

steel creek
#

correct, they did.

royal lintel
#

And restaurants are not tech.

chilly sundial
#

That has no bearing on the restaurant industry

#

Which is what we said

royal lintel
#

At the very least, a graphics engineer isn't going to go work at a restaurant as a normal career prospect.

chilly sundial
#

And you argued about the human condition and got toxic about it

steel creek
#

The restaurant "industry" was clearly used as an exemplar.

#

as I pointed out again, the numerous industries that have CRUNCH

chilly sundial
#

Again doesnt answer the question

royal lintel
#

Yes, and those have nothing to do with an engineer's career prospects.

chilly sundial
#

No one denied that

#

In fact he said "Yes i get its everywhere"

#

This was well established

steel creek
chilly sundial
#

I mean you arent wromg, but again no bearing on the topic

steel creek
chilly sundial
#

The question was about crunch in tech

#

Not the restaurant industry

steel creek
royal lintel
#

Career prospects and experience in relation to games is certainly on topic.

steel creek
#

as is observation that all industries suffer similar problems

chilly sundial
#

"Yeah. It's everywhere. But what i was asking is if it's as bad as it is for gameplay programmers"

royal lintel
#

Saying something true doesn't make it relevant.
It's like complaining that rents are too high and someone else saying that children in another country are starving. Yes, it's true. No, it's not relevant, and it's even insulting.

chilly sundial
#

Quote from who asked the question

#

See how the restaurant industry has nothing to do with that

granite brook
#

Hm

chilly sundial
#

Hm

woeful iron
#

Hm

granite brook
#

Tricky. I mean it's not the end of the world for them to also discuss similar industries as comparison, if that was the intention.

royal lintel
#

No, it's not, but when questioned on how it was relevant to the original discussion they got very defensive about it.

chilly sundial
#

No but when we pointed out it doesnt answer their question they got all toxic

granite brook
#

Right

chilly sundial
#

Esoecially seeing as their inital response was already acknowledged in the question

steel creek
#

lol, they got all toxic? I literally have been non-toxic until I started getting bashed in here. Its not that hard to read

chilly sundial
#

You werent getting bashed

woeful iron
#

oh no, can't react with 🇽 , they blocked me 🥴

#

how will I continue to live

chilly sundial
#

If you feel an opposing view is bashing then thats on you

steel creek
scenic moon
plucky hatch
#

I need advice on schools in Pyongyang
I will be living in North Korea with my sister for about 2 years, would like to go to school while im there

#

this seems like the best choice

#

but I wanna know the alternatives

craggy nacelle
#

g8 b8 m8

scenic moon
#

scam link?

plucky hatch
#

its a real school

#

a lot of america and EU is unaware of the fact north korea is open to other countries for education

scenic moon
#

What does this have to do with unreal engine?

plucky hatch
#

i was asking about schools related to game design

#

@scenic moon it may be an uncomfortable question but try not to make a stink of it im hoping to get an actual opinion or answer on it on topic

#

lol

scenic moon
#

No that's my bad not trying to combat it just seemed not related to unreal engine at first

#

since its about language

plucky hatch
#

i dont think there is a school for unreal engine lol

craggy nacelle
#

I didn't think anyone would actually take this question seriously lol

plucky hatch
#

i dont know any universities that teach unreal and @craggy nacelle yeah most people wouldnt take it seriously, very few people are aware of the subject at all

#

its not a bad thing, its rare to talk about north korea in terms of education

shut token
#

Probably 'cause they're more isolated from the world than some tribes that haven't hit the bronze age yet

plucky hatch
#

they are very isolated, her first semester I was sitting in the cafeteria and there was a class marching in (literally marching, like feet swinging up and everything) when she came to the table and sat down she told me it was a patriotic song

scenic moon
#

We don't talk about politics here

plucky hatch
#

it was pretty cool but definitely weird for me

#

then why did you start the discussion of politics if that is not okay lmao

#

not you but him

#

the guy who was talking about isolation and what not

#

i just wanna know about programming schools in the country ill be stuck in for 3 years

shut token
#

I wouldn't take 7801's word as gospel.

scenic moon
#

That's not political, that's saying "we don't know about something nobody else knows about"

royal lintel
#

I don't think you're going to get any info on "schools related to game design in pyongyang" if that's what you're asking because as far as I'm aware any use of common tools in the game industry is going to be entirely restricted there.

plucky hatch
#

but everyone keeps changing the subject to politics lol

woeful iron
#

idk about korean schools

plucky hatch
#

@royal lintel there is no software related to cg or game design restricted in NK

royal lintel
#

I'm not talking about what's restricted there

#

I doubt any companies making common tools outside of NK are going to be selling those tools to NK.

plucky hatch
#

this is just propaganda you might have been fed

#

lol

#

My sister is working on a list but i wont see her for about 2 weeks

#

hopefully she finds something, id like to get some edu while im there

woeful iron
#

I know Pyongyang has some great schools, but really I doubt much people in here know anything about it except maybe that it exists

plucky hatch
#

a lot of people are surprised when they find out any of them exists haha

scenic moon
shut token
#

We don't talk about politics here
then why did you start the discussion of politics if that is not okay lmao
Just responding to this part. Not saying what you say isn't right or wrong.

plucky hatch
#

a lot of people dont know the whole "isolated from the internet" thing is just an HTTP proxy, but no content-filter for your access to the internet. We can still access most sites, discord, steam etc

#

how else would i be talking to you all rn lol

#

@shut token its not anyones fault my guy its just a very weird subject

scenic moon
plucky hatch
#

its cool man

#

no one is mad

shut token
#

There is no blame being placed anywhere.

plucky hatch
#

well, a lot of what people in the west and the east of NK believe about the country is just totally false and regurgitated by the media in both countries
so yeah they should take the blame for that, but lets not continue this discussion, no politics for rn

shut token
#

What are you even going on about

woeful iron
#

why do you specify in the west and in the east lol

#

isn't that just everything else?

plucky hatch
#

well japan is pretty educated on NK

#

but this isnt the place for politics lol, if anyone is interested in how living in north korea is for an outsider then i welcome PMS

#

love to talk about it because its definitely interesting

woeful iron
#

but japan would fall under the countries to the east no

#

just saying it was weird wording lol

plucky hatch
#

i didnt mean every where else by west and east i mean EU and US

#

oh and russia lol they are pretty propagandist against NK

woeful iron
#

here I was thinking John Mcafee killed himself in Spain

#

but he just fled to NK

plucky hatch
#

lmao

#

nobody knows, but i got that tattoo just to troll people when i kms

plucky hatch
half shale
#

So I've been working on a game demo that's almost getting to the point where I'm gonna want to pitch it to publishers. The problem is, I'm a dumbshit and I don't know the first thing about any of that. I don't really even know who to ask, I don't personally know anyone in the games industry either.
Are there like consultants who I could pay for a couple hours of their time, just to lay out where I'm at and the goals, and have them say something like "oh yeah, you gotta form this type of company, start doing this with your expenses, talk to these people at publishers and submit your demo in this form"?

hallow stone
junior trellis
#

Hey y’all. We’re a product team from the bay area that recently got funding to make something dope to promote the craft of indie game devs. We’d love to hear about your needs and frustrations with the current system and there’s some amazon/steam gift cards in it for your time. If you’re down, heres a survey https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSe9vAwH8TKoX9DjWCSsnPKoW8_6si3-VXuPrSrK1wkPyAEBuA/viewform?usp=sf_link
Thanks!

Google Docs
Indie Game Dev Survey

A survey to gather information for a research project centered around the challenges indie game developers face in their workflow. This survey takes 3 min to complete.

lucid dagger
#

Hi, quick question. How standard it is if I would get and sign my contract on the first/second day of the probation period?

#

As a sidenote : I do not distrust them and there was no redflags or whatsoever. And the HR said they usually prepare the contracts for the first day, but they can send it earlier if I want.

#

Juts curious about that how standard procedure that is.

woeful iron
#

well standard would be at the end of probation

#

but if they see you are doing really well and they like you it's not out of the ordinary to do before

#

but you can always ask them why they decide to give it to you already

lucid dagger
#

Usually there is no contract for probation period?

brave forge
#

It's a little unorganised but it happens. I've had jobs where I don't get the paper work till the first day, and they want me to sign it that day, but I push back and hand it over signed on day 2. Always take it home and read it.

woeful iron
brave forge
woeful iron
#

I assumed you had one for probation and they were giving you a fulltime now

#

my bad

#

but it does happen that they give it too late

#

not that big a deal if it's just 2 days

serene crystal
#

I got mine done before I started

woeful iron
#

except if you were to break your leg at work for example

#

then you're not ensured

#

usually you would have it before you start though

brave forge
lucid dagger
woeful iron
#

well shit if there's still a month to go why would they wait till then

#

maybe if they want your physical signature you can do it on the first day before you start though

brave forge
#

There's no reason it can be prepared in that 4 weeks

#

Yep, even if they want physical signature, no reason you can't review an e-mailed copy

lucid dagger
brave forge
#

It's strange (to me) you have a separate contract for probation and full time. In Australia the probation period can be written into the one contract, so it just rolls over after the 3 months of probation

woeful iron
#

yeah that's possible

tight bobcat
#

is anyone here form UK

plucky hatch
plucky hatch
#

Hey you can apply to jobs on this discord lol

#

Wow

#

that’s nice

pure kettle
#

UE4 or UE5?

steady pewter
#

First!

woeful iron
pure kettle
vagrant brambleBOT
#

:triangular_flag_on_post: LEX#1884 received strike 1. As a result, they were muted for 10 minutes.

pastel estuary
#

seriously though, youve been here for half a year +, you should know the rules.

violet escarp
#

I'm just a messenger

unreal_salary.PNG
#

Is this true? 😄

royal lintel
#

Depends entirely on location, studio, seniority, whether it's a contract or full time position, etc.

#

But yes, in some locations that's perfectly reasonable for a mid level engineer.

plucky hatch
#

Then I imagine all the projects you make and market in your offtime if any.

#

Some people make like $10/week per app they make and they make like over a dozen. Not much but enough to earn something.

obtuse blade
#

What would you guys consider "entry level" in unreal?

#

Like I get there are a ton of fields to answer for, but break down the fields you know I guess

pure kettle
serene crystal
#

Do you mean the pay?

obtuse blade
#

I meant experience level, trying to figure out where I fall without falling victim to dunning-kruger

#

but yeah also pay ranges would be relevant

serene crystal
#

Kinda hard to quantify

serene crystal
#

You could troll around linkedin I suppose

#

I just searched "UE4 Portfolio" and aped what I saw in terms of layout for the site

obtuse blade
#

Thanks, I'll look into that. Making a portfolio has always been my weakness lol

serene crystal
#

Feel free to copy my javascript stuff, just be warned the VUE.js version is not the production version

steady pewter
#

contains crypto miner

obtuse blade
#

I'll just change the wallet address 😉

plucky hatch
# obtuse blade What would you guys consider "entry level" in unreal?

When I hire a junior artist or developer they never have less than 2-3 years of experience/practice. This can be time spent in school or self study or a mix of both, its only the portfolio that interests me not qualifications.
Time doesn't equal quality of course, but its rare to find someone employable who had been working with it for less.

obtuse blade
woeful iron
#

do you count school in that experience/practice

#

cause otherwise that's kinda dumb

#

how is a person supposed to get 2-3 years of experience if everyone would hire juniors like this

#

not complaining about me, I have a job, but that's just a strange quantification for a junior profile

#

ah I see you did mention school

#

my bad

brazen schooner
#

Hi there

woeful iron
#

definitely portfolio is most important

brazen schooner
#

I am kind of interested in knowing about Unreal Engine

#

I am a unity dev and want to switch to unreal engine
But i want to use unreal engine 3

So does it have blueprints?
Does it work with a modern windows 10 system?

#

Also where will i get the engine from

woeful iron
#

is there a reason for using unreal 3?

brazen schooner
woeful iron
#

I would still go for at least 4 tbh

#

there's a very big gap from 3 to 4

#

also 3 is no longer supported

obtuse blade
#

Isn't 3 also closed source?

woeful iron
#

and you don't have source access

#

also, no one uses it anymore, so good luck getting any help

#

you can still use unreal development kit 3

#

but that's far from what ue4 has as features and stuff

brazen schooner
#

But ue4 is really demanding

woeful iron
#

depends on what you do I guess

#

have you tried using it already?

#

don't knock it till you try it

#

but imo, learning ue3 now is a waste of time

#

unless you have a specific old project that you want to create mods/maps for for example

brazen schooner
#

Lost ark was made using UE3

#

And APB RELOADED as well

woeful iron
#

great for them

#

doesn't really change anything

obtuse blade
#

Those devs are probably also experienced in using that specific engine. Coming into a new engine you'd want something with more resources available to you

woeful iron
#

also, lost ark development started in 2011

#

ue4 was only released 2014

brazen schooner
woeful iron
#

you don't really

#

I have never used 64gb of ram in my life

obtuse blade
#

The editor scales really well actually, but you will have to fight it a bit at first to get it running well

brazen schooner
woeful iron
#

I suggest you first try using unreal 4, on the lowest settings if that helps

#

don't knock it till you try it

brazen schooner
woeful iron
#

well or ue5

#

try what works for you

#

I don't think ue5 has much higher requireements than 4

#

it's basically the same engine with new UI and some extra features

#

I don't know where you got this 64g ram number from

#

recommendend specs is literally 8GB Ram

#

and that's even recommended

#

not minimum

brazen schooner
#

I have a ASUS TUF F15 laptop

I5 10gen
8gb ram
4gb gtx 1650ti graphics card

woeful iron
#

that's definitely decent enough

brazen schooner
#

For UE5? or 4?

woeful iron
#

both

obtuse blade
#

just don't go crazy on stuff like megascans in your projects and you should be fine

brazen schooner
#

So how big are both UE4 and 5 in size

woeful iron
#

My UE5 folder is 36.2GB

#

that was install from when it went into preview

brazen schooner
#

Damn thats huge

woeful iron
#

my ue4 is 47.2GB

#

that's not really huge lol

#

that's like 1 AAA game installed on your system

#

or 1/4th of call of duty modern warfare install 🥲

brazen schooner
#

Ill download UE5 then

#

But what if it doesn't work?

woeful iron
#

uninstall it?

brazen schooner
#

Ok then

woeful iron
#

you can try ue4 if 5 doesn't work

#

if that doesn't work, good luck

#

cause UDK doesn't even have an official download page anymore

plucky hatch
# woeful iron not complaining about me, I have a job, but that's just a strange quantification...

I don't mind if people went to school or not, many people including myself are self trained with no qualifications but instead practiced for many years on their own at home. I accept juniors with degrees, masters, online courses, self taught, doesn't really matter to me I will only judge them on their portfolio.
Ive seen people coming out of game dev education with 3 years BA and 2 years MA and they are still rubbish. Ive seen people just knuckle down and focus and be much better in half of that time. Thats why I only really judge on portfolio, there are also many terrible schools.

abstract thunder
#

Hello everyone ! (I really don't know if it's the right place, but)
I'm looking for feedback on my portfolio (Junior Artist), as I'm having trouble trying to find a job in the industry.
What is good, what is not, what should i change ? Should I dump the website and only use Artstation ?
I'll take any kind of feedback as really need to improve.. thank you !

https://shaddh.com/

woeful iron
#

well first issue would be, the site takes forever to load 😄

#

like legit, image is still loading now

#

the video vor icarion is just black?

#

ah it finally started

#

would be nicer if it was something you could play/pause yourself or skip time

#

this sounds so weird

#

" my collegue mainly worked on the rigging and animations and finally myself."

#

sounds like your colleagues worked on you

#

also you spelled colleague wrong

#

also you say "Based off the concept art of Fernando Correra "KAP-40"."

#

but you don't add a link to that

#

and you spelled their last name wrong

#

Fernando Correa

#

no extra r

#

also about that specific gun, that looks very thin tbh

#

biggest issue with the site itself is that it load so extremely slow

#

the work itself is okay

#

Try to add more stuff on your portfolio though

#

also you only show renders, show clay shots and wireframes as well

#

and yeah afaik most artists just use artstation, so that would work

#

can't really give much comment on the art cause I'm but a humble programmer that hasn't done 3d in a few years 😄

hard zephyr
#

The main thing that jumps out at me is that you mention multiple things that you did but don't actually show those things. For example you mention optimizing topology and yet there's no images of the topology, or you mention compositing and yet there's no breakdowns of a composite you did, etc.

While it's nice to see the final result I would be far more interested in seeing how you achieve that result

royal lintel
#

I think the website itself is fine, loaded fast for me so might be a geographic issue? idk. I don't see a particular reason to use artstation instead of that website as it generally seems to look and work just fine - any issues with your portfolio are mostly with what you're writing/showing as was already mentioned. I can't comment on the art either but definitely proofread and spellcheck the writing - there are a few very obvious errors ("Thank you for looking all the way trough" is missing an h) that will generally turn people off from going any further.

woeful iron
#

@abstract thunder btw

abstract thunder
#

First of all, thank you all for the feedback, i've asked on multiples places and barely ever got any feedback. I'll get to work ASAP and correct the issues you mentioned !
For the spelling I will redo a double check as my main language is FR and I indeed misspelled a lot of words.

#

I am aware of the loading issue (caused by all the videos in autoplay) the loading speed may vary depending on your connection speed.. So maybe I should turn off all the auto play and let the viewer decide ?

#

And the last point being the lack of details in any of the project shown is because I wanted the recruiter to be able to fly fast through all the projects
Then should i do something similar as Artstation, and use thumbnails and click for a more detailed breakdown of the process ?

woeful iron
#

that's a possibility, just something where you can show the more art technical stuff like topology and stuff

hard zephyr
#

While having the ability to click and go into more detail would be nice, I'd still recommend have some of the breakdown images as part of the preview images on the main page. How you achieve those results is a core part of what you'd be doing if hired so you should be demonstrating that as clearly as possible

serene crystal
#

Yeah I really think too many portfolio pages force you to "enter" the page first. Show your stuff right when the page opens!

abstract thunder
#

I agree, I also find tedious to jump from one portfolio to another as they are all different and takes time to get use to

#

So I am gonna keep the "one page" style but try to figure out a way to better separate work.
The problem is that if I add to much stuff, the site becomes reliant on using the Nav Bar at the top and I don't think many people use it

plucky hatch
#

Its best to have everything on one page, and not have too many projects (unless they are very good). 3-6 is enough for an artist.

abstract thunder
#

Ok thank you I will be sure to keep the best, either way I don't have much 'quality' projects since I am a junior artist my choices are limited ahah

plucky hatch
abstract thunder
#

Noted, Based off your portfolio i see you're into 3D as well can you critique my work ? What needs to be improved and what is bad ?

plucky hatch
# abstract thunder Noted, Based off your portfolio i see you're into 3D as well can you critique my...

Yes, 3D is my hobby but for my job I am Creative Lead for a studio. A few things I would change, overall its not great (the design of the site, your work is ok for clarity) but what stands out the most:

  • The work is not on the first page, I don't really care what your name is, if I like the work enough ill go and find that information in your about or contact section.
    -You have a lot of media on the first page so its not the fastest to load as others have said.
    -The fonts and alignment are all over the place, I expect all my artists to be able to present their own project work so having at least some discipline is important, when in doubt keep it simple and stick to a grid.
    -I would try and stick to neat galleries rather that so many videos.
    -You mention work and skills that you do not demonstrate such as topology etc.
#

Here for example you have fonts in two different weights, a widow in the text, media frames of different sizes, not to mention nothing is aligned, if anyone, even a junior was applying to me for a design related job, that would disqualify them.

uneven drum
#

So anyone have any tips on how to make game development a career?

abstract thunder
#

Ok so less heavy loading media, and have consistent fonts, about the alignments, it's a tricky job as I try to make it work for every resolutions and it often breaks.
I made the site on a WQHD display, what is your screen resolution ? So that I can try to fix it

plucky hatch
#

I do that myself so I know the experience is consistent on all devices and is simple.

abstract thunder
# uneven drum So anyone have any tips on how to make game development a career?

This is mainly what the topic about my portfolio is @uneven drum, I'm trying to get feedback to finally get into the industry.
I'd advise you to have a portfolio to show your work (Artstation / personal site) and reach out to the HR, Talent Acquisition team, or go in person see the studios to make yourself stand out.
If your profile is interesting and you have what is required to be hired chances are the studios will reach out to you.

abstract thunder
plucky hatch
uneven drum
green oyster
#

@abstract thunder You say hard surface and texture artist, I don't expect to see stylized stuff, even buildings, but more complex props (classic examples: bunker door, radio, light fixtures, fire extinguisher, pipes, etc). For texture work, I would pick varied objects (wood, metal, stone, etc). A whole building is kinda hard for a junior to do all alone, perhaps you can focus on a part that also showcases hard surface modeling / baking / texturing (something like a victorian window/facade maybe with details and trims). I do suggest you use artstation and also put up marmoset viewer files for assets like the pistol (for viewers to check topology, baking, etc).

#

I can't tell if you mastered high to low baking and all its quirks, or really analyze topology (for example pistol doesn't have even distribution of edges, some parts are too high res , some don't use enough triangles), a lot of edges are razor sharp

abstract thunder
# green oyster <@199955528523186177> You say hard surface and texture artist, I don't expect to...

O M G.. Thank you so much for this detailed response concerning what I show VS what is expected, yes i also find the pistol extremely outdated in therms of topology, you gave me a clear path as far as what i'm supposed to work on for the jobs i'm applying to.
Thank you for theses examples as well, I now know exactly what I have to do, I have focused on the wrong things all along !!
And yes I had plans to embed the marmoset viewer file on my website, but had troubles doing it. Again for time and efficiency reasons I think that i'll use Artstation as my portfolio for now, and when I finally have a job, work on the website which make me lose so much time.

#

I can't believe how much things I learned on one day compared to 3 years at art school lol... Again thank you all very much for the replies I never felt so relieved

chilly sundial
#

Did you not read my reply in industry chat? <@&213101288538374145>

plucky hatch
#

So is it worth it to try and jump from a boring but good payment JS API developer into a games studio, I hear a lot of bad things in this industry
I just think because I like games it would be less boring

woeful iron
#

also, just fyi, making games is very different to playing games. So "I like games" might not be the correct motivation.

#

Don't jump ship until you tried it on your own for a while and like it

plucky hatch
#

I've been trying, so far it's pretty interesting to learn

fierce nimbus
#

Hey hello

#

im trying to find some entry level job as a character concept artist

#

any tips or leads?

plucky hatch
fierce nimbus
#

instagram: elsoto99

pastel estuary
fierce nimbus
#

yeah..

#

instagram is not a portfolio

#

the thing is that i have like 90 something drawings

#

and i got lazy getting into artstation

#

i have a profile tho, its on my discord bio

#

ill appreciate some feedback

plucky hatch
plucky hatch
fierce nimbus
#

yes, my sculpts get stuck into the sculpting part, im learning now poly paint and rendering on photoshop

plucky hatch
#

I would not list Zbrush on your portfolio then, I would say you need more practice before you are ready for a junior role.

fierce nimbus
#

on the drawing part you mean?

plucky hatch
fierce nimbus
#

you see any really big problem with the drawing part?

plucky hatch
fierce nimbus
#

refined?

#

yeah i need to up from busts

#

i though that i had a clear style

plucky hatch
# fierce nimbus refined?

Yes they are very loose, they lack details and clarity. They do have a clear style, but it’s not really a marketable style, and if you want to work professionally that’s what you need to focus on.

#

If you can only do one style, you will have to be extremely lucky to find a project that is also working in that exact style, the chances of that are slim and you are just narrowing your options.

#

Being a character artist is more that just sketching some designs, it’s being able to take an idea from conception to reality, the key skill here is illustration in general. If you practice with more styles and give yourself a greater range you have more chance of success.

fierce nimbus
#

do you know where i can get an internship or mentorship?

#

To learn from professionals

plucky hatch
#

To get an internship you will be competing with people who will have been studying/practicing character art for 2-3 years

fierce nimbus
#

damn thats tough

#

Its is difficult being self taught

#

well youtube taught

plucky hatch
#

Well don’t give up I am self taught and many people I know too

fierce nimbus
#

thanks a lot for the help, ill step up my anatomy then

normal rivet
#

Any idea of who I may contact or an email I can use to speak to anyone at Epic Games about their Grant Program? I'm an educator who has a time sensitive question and wanted to speed up the 90-day response time process.

coral pond
#

i would try to reach out to one of the unreal engine evangelists
https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/unreal-indies
scroll down and you will see the twitter handles you can try and DM them on. Chris Murphy is one who handles most of the Australia side of things

Unreal Engine
Unreal Engine | Indies

Unreal Engine is the world’s most open and advanced real-time 3D creation platform for photoreal visuals and immersive experiences.

normal rivet
#

Bless ye, thank you!

reef aspen
#

Hello everyone, i don’t usually get into chat with random people but i need your help guys, i’ve been into game dev for about 6 years and recently i lost all my data and passwords. I had to buy a new PC and leave my past work and contacts behind, now i’m struggling with getting back to industry and finding a job, i always had job offers from people that i know but now i feel like i’m starting from scratch and i have to find a job due to some financial issues, this is my darkest period of game dev sadly and over the years i heard many similar stories, i always tried to help but i never thought that i might get into that situation myself, now i'm here and i'm looking for that good person that might help me out. This whole year was really bad for me, now i'm aware that if i don't find a job in next few days i might have to leave game industry forever, so yeah, this is my last shot 🙂

woeful iron
reef aspen
# woeful iron <#780559971501735946> ?

Well, my largest problem is that i'm not looking for fully commercial jobs, i like to do multiple jobs and like to be on multiple positions, i've spent many years working with indie teams and that's something that you just don't forget, i'm looking to become a real part of a team, to make bond with my colleagues and accept game idea as mine, simply said i'm looking for passionate but paid projects, i'm a bit weird type of person and professional industry just doesn't make me feel comfortable. I tried to be a part of professional industry but it didn't go well, honestly it just felt like an ordinary job, i won't name companies where i worked to avoid problematic situations

#

To apply only for one team position is not really something i feel comfortable with, i hope that what i say make sense because it's very hard to explain

#

I would accept single or short-time job if someone contacts me for it probably if salary is good, but i don't feel good about applying for such jobs myself

chilly sundial
#

this isnt the place really for advertising yourself

craggy nacelle
#

This is one of those things where linkedin is handy :P just add all your professional'ish contacts there and you can wipe your pc and it's still all there lol

chilly sundial
#

but what if your pc is the linkedin servers 😅

eternal mason
#

Ruff days @ the day job put more gas in my fire

plucky hatch
hallow stone
# reef aspen Hello everyone, i don’t usually get into chat with random people but i need your...

This is less career advice and more life advice.

i lost all my data and passwords
Contact customer service to recover login access to accounts.
Back up your data using cloud storage like Google Drive.
Use a password manager like BitWarden.

i always had job offers from people that i know but now i feel like i’m starting from scratch
Reach out to your professional contacts via email, phone, discord, twitter, or linkedin if you remember who they were.

if i don't find a job in next few days i might have to leave game industry forever
Then get a job or freelance work that will hire you in a short timeframe and get financially stable asap.

i never thought that i might get into that situation myself
Always prepare for the worst and have a backup plan and emergency funds.

woeful iron
#

portfolio is probably the most important

woeful iron
#

make some projects

#

big or small

#

show your skills

woeful iron
#

You've been doing it for 7 years you say

#

you must have something right

modern relic
#

Really though I've been programming and trying to make games for years and unreal makes me feel like I don't know anything. I'm constantly relearning stuff and feeling like everything I learnt outside of unreal doesn't apply. I have no formal training or qualifications so that statement might not mean as much but it's a struggle

round radish
#

It's the same for everyone, except the small minority!

#

Unreal is its very own little cosmos...

serene crystal
#

It's a truly absurdly huge bundle of trivia

woeful iron
#

ok, but they said they've been doing game dev for 7 years, I mean you must have done something in that time instead of playing with your fingers right?

#

made a small game, or a prototype, or a tech demo, or at least testing some extremely small things like a specific component or something

#

saying been doing this for 7 years implies you did something right

#

didn't say it had to be unreal specific

jaunty crescent
#

a team of us are putting together a game at work and it's our first game - we agreed the most challenging aspect would be the game design aspect. Could someone give a good pointer to a framework they use for game design that dictates the steps in the process one should take when designing their game?

noble wolf
#

Hi guys. How do you know you are burned out? I have finished 2 game jams and I can't stand the urge to search for game ideas even tho I feel exhausted.

shut token
#

That's how you know.

#

If you just have a meh feeling and don't really want to do it at the time, after doing it quite heavily for X amount of time - pretty good indicator that you're burnt out.

green oyster
quasi belfry
#

Hey guys, I have one questions regarding books to learn. Which gamedev books should be must read for any gameplay programmer? I am looking for good c++ books and game programming books as well. For starter, I use internet as my gamedev resources for ue4 tutorials, but I have never purchased any books for learning. Therefore, I am looking for good suggestions.

woeful iron
#

idk game programming books specifically, if looking for c++ though you can check out https://www.learncpp.com/, for some books on "base" c++, see https://stackoverflow.com/questions/388242/the-definitive-c-book-guide-and-list.
For unreal specific , this is an interesting free course https://learn.unrealengine.com/course/3441566, and these doc pages are pretty interesting as well for starters https://docs.unrealengine.com/4.27/en-US/ProgrammingAndScripting/ProgrammingWithCPP/IntroductionToCPP/

#

like, generic gameplay programmer books, I don't really have agood view on

#

only game specific book I ever read was "Introduction to 3D Game Programming with DirectX 12", but that's about rendering

craggy nacelle
#

I would also recommend some general programming books, like Pragmatic Programmer and Code Complete... they don't deal with any specific programming language, but more general advice on how to write good code

#

But if you're a beginner probably focus on getting to grips with your tools of choice first, and once you find you want to get more in-depth, then those are good to also consider :)

quasi belfry
#

Thanks for the suggestions @woeful iron and @craggy nacelle . I will check out those links and those books.

hexed gust
#

Does anyone here have any Unreal Engine free environmental courses?

pure kettle
hexed gust
#

What do you mean?

heavy cradle
#

@hexed gust this means you posted the same question in 4 different channels, all within a few moments of each other, and generally against the rules of this discord.

This community has a remarkable amount of people, talent, skill, experience, knowledge and answers, and if you want to be a part of this community and be a benefactor of this, you will need patience and consideration that people answer freely of their own will and support of each other. Please do not spam multiple channels with your question as you did, it's disruptive, impatient, and against the rules.

I see you're new here, I advice you read the #rules and abide by them. I will not issue a strike this time, but next time will come with a strike, which will temporarily (30 days) restrict your access to certain features of the community, and with 3 of them, you will be permanently removed from it.

hexed gust
heavy cradle
hexed gust
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Thank you so much for everything

heavy cradle
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enjoy and hope your learning process is great, it'll be rough, but it'll be rewarding if you stick to it

hexed gust
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Thanks

sharp forge
#

hello hello! Im trying to post a job, but i can't seem to be able to send a message successfully to Manny. Is there something I might be doing wrong?

vagrant brambleBOT
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@charred sentinel, :8ball: Reply hazy, try again.

sharp forge
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my issue was when i tried to send manny a DM.

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I got this

unknown.png
round radish
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Manny's not a number, he's a free bot!

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Who is #0001?!

sharp forge
#

yes

round radish
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Worked fine here.

sharp forge
#

ahh, that did it. many thanks!

plucky hatch
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hey guys

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not too sure if this is the right place to ask

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but I have to do about 4-5 projects for my portfolio ready for at least end of september

#

what would the best and quick projects I can do in terms of environment art ? assets , textures , scenes,... ? etc..

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would an asset made in Maya and textured in substance painter alone be considered a project?

violet glacier
#

just look at other artists portfolios for examples?

pure kettle
#

Now you're being told to see #instructions on how to post to the job board channels.

acoustic pawn
tight walrus
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Who is doing indie dev for long time? 5 or more years

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How is it?

round radish
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Indie-scribable.

#

(sorry)

tight walrus
#

how long you are at it?

tight walrus
#

good. I'm month full time

proud spear
#

props to those who can do indie and support a family at the same time

strong shale
#

How much actually a FT deisgner and programmer can make in a Start-up Company monthly?

brave forge
#

Depends on the definition of startup and the location of the startup

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2 person team in a garage is a start up, 50-100 person company with vc funding is also a startup

cloud charm
#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2edoacF53F0

YouTube
Unreal Engine
Overcoming Common Early Challenges in Unreal Engine | Dev Days 2018...

This practical discussion led by Senior Dev Rel Tech Artist Zak Parrish presents an overview of common issues that arise during a studio’s first six months on a UE4 project, focusing on solutions. Topics include general best practices, optimization guidelines, and how to avoid common pitfalls of game development.

Learn more at http://www.unreal...

▶ Play video
brazen oxide
#

tyvm man

glossy tulip
#

Is anyone else difficulties finding freelance VFX artists?

glossy tulip
#

Thanks @charred sentinel , this discussion does not seem to have had any helpful conclusions

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Heh indeed

#

I'm having the same trouble as Partikel. Everytime I put an ad for a VFX gig, there are very few applicants and even less "good" ones. Every time I painstakingly sieve through art station and twitter for quality pros, they are of course happily employed and don't do freelance. Seems like it's either unsustainable to be a game VFX freelancer, or there just aren't that many. Or nobody is interested in my particular project maybe.

#

small violin noises

ashen lynx
glossy tulip
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@ashen lynx you're probably right

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But from what I've seen there's a big jump from people just starting out with super basic vfx, to high end accomplished artists. I couldn't see much in between

ashen lynx
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It is not uncommon to get contacted by someone having unrealistic expectations with respect to scope and complexity of project and benefits provided. Too uncommon in fact. Not so much in respect of benefits, but more about expectations.

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o high end accomplished artists. I couldn't see much in between That is actually almost everywhere that way.

glossy tulip
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If only there was any contact at all and they would tell me "yo you're being unrealistic"

ashen lynx
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Ye, but overall, I get your sentiment. Had to refuse quite a bit in the past. Always feels unpleasant. Still have serious regrets about few select ones.

glossy tulip
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You're a VFX artist?

frail scroll
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do you guys know of any big team of game developers willing to take in newbies?

ashen lynx
glossy tulip
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Maybe it's just much harder to be a freelancer in VFX. The assets are much more integrated than something like a 3D model or 2D art

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Hard to have small scope quick projects

frail scroll
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that would be ideal but I am traveling to Mexico this week and staying there for a year 😂

ashen lynx
frail scroll
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thing is that I want to follow a tutorial but I am not really motivated

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I have 2 citizenships but don't tell anyone (? 😅