#career-chat

1 messages · Page 88 of 1

stone torrent
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Hey, Im learning unreal atm

A bit of background, I've been making games on Roblox for around 8 years now, and can code in multiple languages

My goal is to work at a AAA game studio

Should I focus my learning on c++, or BP side of unreal?

shadow kelp
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C++ for AAA

stone torrent
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Thats what I thought yeah

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Thanks!

tacit siren
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you really need to do both

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if you're programming gameplay

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efficient working code that has sloppy blueprint exposed API has very little value

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same goes for code that overexposes stuff to BP, as you can never trust anything that happens in BP 🙂

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you need to learn the balance that lets the designers do their work, without poking you constantly, while providing as few opportunities as possible for them to break the game

shadow kelp
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well, you can't learn the C++ side of unreal without learning blueprints....so it should definitely be your focus

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learning the unreal C++ API is learning blueprints.

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but if you just use blueprints, no AAA studio is going to be interested

tacit siren
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felt i should mention that, having encountered c++ only people in the past

steady pewter
somber brook
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UDC = Ubisoft dev conference?

flat gazelle
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Yeah

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The only reason to visit Montreal 😉

nova tartan
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Montreal is a pretty nice place
If my current job ever fails and I can't find more work in Winnipeg montreal is my first choice for relocation
Sort of affordable housing afaik and good restaurants etc

pure flame
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Learning both BP and C++ are a good move, but I will admit that after you have mastered C++, BP is so basic in comparison that it's quite easy to understand the flow of how things work. Top down programming in C++ is equivalent to left to right in BP where the lines point in the direction of flow. My entire project is in C++, but I know very well how to convert code in both directions.

stray vortex
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@pure flame dont think the intention of BP is to make projects with it

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its great to be on top of cpp

pure flame
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You most definitely can make an entire project based solely on BP.

stray vortex
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you "can" do a lot

pure flame
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People do it all the time.

stray vortex
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guess its great for level design, and on top scripting

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i like bp a lot so far

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its even fun to code like that 😄

nova tartan
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I enjoy blueprint scripting, feels a lot faster to implement something meaningful than C++ stuff
but it has tons of problems

modest star
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I'm curious, what problems? I've been using practically only BP so far, haven't really had any issues and it feels fast

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The one downside I know is it runs slower than C++ but CPU isn't a problem for me

stray vortex
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i like cpp more, but i love to prototype bp

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and sometimes its more fun to drag and drop 😛

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for sure you can do entire games with it, i just would not

pure flame
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Performance wise, C++ surpasses BP. Also, when trying to do multiplayer, C++ is much better suited for it. Other than that, BP is super powerful and should be used whenever possible if that is what you're comfortable with.

stray vortex
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cpp is the only way to go

nova tartan
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maybe I'm wrong on this but like
Blue print files are a proprietary format whereas cpp files are just text
so bps have a lot of issues with like file corruptions and modular pieces

blueprints have issues with interfaces and stuff too I've found in the past, things not being exposed to blueprint, or having incomplete implementations
I think I tried to add a set of required functions to my blueprint but the debugging didn't work with it? I forget the exact problem I had in the past

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Like I can implement a gameplay idea really quickly in blueprints now that I've gotten over most of the hurdles, but it still feels like it's only 80% of what I want

pastel estuary
stray vortex
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@pastel estuary sure, i just wanted to mention it, sorry

lilac walrus
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'CV maker'? Don't bother, use a Word document.

flat gazelle
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Use LinkedIn (or word)

fickle hatch
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Or excel

lilac walrus
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whut

spiral badge
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hey im looking for a good way to hold screenshots of my projects for a sort of library for my portfolio, does anyone know any websites i can do this on?

nova tartan
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I think artstation is the standard?

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and for CV use like a standard word editior like microsoft word or google docs, but be sure to save it as a PDF because a lot of companies don't want to open sketchy word docs

spiral badge
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alright, thanky ou

spiral badge
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is this a place to get opinions on a portfolio?

lilac walrus
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a channel more relevant to your discipline might get you better feedback

spiral badge
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i thought that, its a small landscape area, but i wasnt too sure where would be the best place

valid delta
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Anyone know where i can get animations for my character? I am creating an adventure/platformer

green oyster
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Mixamo?

craggy nacelle
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I should make my CV in Unreal 🤔

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There's an app on my phone which did a decent 3D scan of my face, I'll just rig the mouth to open and close in Blender and have a floating 3D head of me in a 3D environment

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that won't be strange at all

celest hemlock
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recruiters go through hundreds of CVs every day, the average time they spend looking at your CV is just a matter of seconds

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nobody would look at it, maybe if it was some quirky part of your portfolio but even then

craggy nacelle
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lol yeah, it wouldn't be practical at all. if you integrated that into your website somehow then it might have some effect

flat gazelle
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Again, LinkedIn.

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Same layout for all so you know where to look for the info you need. Additional links are convenient and not PDF dodgy.

ashen lynx
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I don't like the idea of prefiltering CV s being a matter of seconds.

flat gazelle
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Eh, it depends. If you are hiring for VFX 95% of applications are from filmcompositors who clearly haven't read the ad. If they haven't included a cover letter that explains why they are looking to change careers, it's easy to kill the application in seconds.

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But if it's all valid applications, then no. It needs more time.

gentle stone
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Heya glad. just wanted to let you know the advice you gave me worked out nicely (with the w8 Ben form). Signed with epic some days ago :)

flat gazelle
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Nice! Congrats

gentle stone
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Thanks!

plucky hatch
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How do I get a job at Ubisoft?

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Can I just show up and refuse to leave

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And program lootboxes before I am escorted out by security

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?

plucky hatch
fickle hatch
plucky hatch
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Too late I am already the CEO of EA...

stray drift
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any idea for course related to last of us 2

steady pewter
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That untapped marked, making courses for how to make a particular game.

stray drift
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no

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like how things work

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how thet blend materials with each other

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how make a road that is destroyed and stuff like that

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im still confused how they made this cracked

vagrant oasis
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well the cracks are deep enough from first glance that that seems to be part of the model and not the texture

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so just flatout add cracks to your models; though keep in mind they're going to be a PAIN to UV nicely

steady pewter
vagrant oasis
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like if you want something more subtle, i've done that with substance painter textures, but yeah those look fairly extreme

stray drift
vagrant oasis
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what 3d software are you using?

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because generally just bevelling, then shifting a few vertices within said bevel, has generally worked for me; it doesn't contort the UV too much and allows for some fairly clean textures

stray drift
flat gazelle
nova tartan
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I'd imagine a lot of the stuff for huge budget games is "Have enough staff that they can actually focus on the tiniest details like realistic cracks in concrete", as opposed to some special technique that is implementable quickly by a single person or small team.

hybrid phoenix
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Yep, that ^

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I can guarantee you that in the case of The Last of Us it's not just "modular roads with variation"

lilac walrus
frigid osprey
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How often are bitwise operations used in game development. Is this something that you should just have a decent understanding and break into it when the time is needed, or is it a deep skill that is needed for common situations?

spice dagger
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It is useful, you should learn it.

gentle stone
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definitely useful, but I wouldnt stress it too much. When you encounter it naturally you'll learn it and go from there

hybrid phoenix
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That^

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Also depends quite a lot what you're doing

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And what sorts of bitwise operations you're thinking of

frigid osprey
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Okay thanks! I am brushing back up on c++ and my math so I can start making my way into the industry. Been a java dev for 5 years out of college. Anything that’s a should learn?

steady pewter
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Java and UE style are pretty close 😁 😩

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Maybe start with some generic c++ knowledge. Language features, no need much for the library. UE replaces it with its own ideas.

solar wharf
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Has anyone made a transition from a big studio to a small indie team?
It is my current goal, maybe I am dreaming, but I love the idea of being more than a cog in the system, continiously doing the same thing. Where decisions are finalized two levels above you.

I want to be a part of 5, 10, 20 man team and have a broader spectrum of responsibilities, and a more tight knit friendship laden work environment

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Am i dreaming? Or is this possible?

craggy nacelle
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I don't see why not? If you see an opening in a smaller studio just apply for it

hybrid phoenix
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Can confirm, certainly possible. Be aware though that indies are by no means perfect workplaces. Financial issues, poor business choices/management and various other issues are far from uncommon

pastel estuary
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^ so... like any other potential workplace :p

lilac walrus
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YAY GAMES INDUSTRY

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at least an indie studio gets to make it's own dumb mistakes

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rather than having them handed down from on-high from a publisher that doesn't give a rats arse about the employees, the company, the brands, or indeed anything other than the quarterly shareholder reports

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just imagine, you could work for someone like Vicarious Visions, who on the back of their success with the Crash Bandicoot Trilogy and Tony Hawk's remakes.... gets rolled into Blizzard to become a support studio 😂

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likely with a 50+% workforce reduction at the same time

pastel estuary
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ouch.
and ive seen that happen at one of the few studios i worked at.
Their own stuff took too long so they'd take up tasks from other studios, only to be swamped with so much work that their own stuff was put on hold indefinitely.
constantly just barely staying afloat.
Took them 7 years to publish their own stuff, which is great but only the few lead people from when they started where still there to see it happen.

nimble shore
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You guys have any luck sourcing a programming gig to Fiverr?

lilac walrus
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I wouldn't even attempt it

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I put a task up there to test the waters a while back and the responses were a joke

nimble shore
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That is what I thought

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I bet people would apply with barley looking at the damn listing

lilac walrus
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in my case it was a simple VR task, some very basic interaction stuff

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I don't think a single applicant even had access to the hardware

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one guy I asked which hardware he was going to use to build it admitted he didn't have hardware, or indeed hardware that could run UE4, but still insisted he could do the work

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obviously this assumption was incorrect for many reasons

nimble shore
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I wish there was some professionalism man. So many flakes in this industry.

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I wish you can just pay someone and them do the thing

cold inlet
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I do not know about programming or posting a gig and getting applicants, I have had luck researching portfolios and getting art/music from fiverr but I approach them and only if they seem professional. But everytime I try someone new I always have that fear it is a waste of money until I get results.

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But my sample size is very tiny, i have reached out to three people total on art/music and so far three for three

hybrid phoenix
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Art can work if you're careful

cold inlet
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Ya I still feel it is inevitable i will stumble on an incompetent and have my money taken for nothing. I treat it as a speculativr investment

honest cipher
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i used fiverr for concept art

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i hired a bunch of illustrators to make me some concept art for cheap

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and see what they come up with

cold inlet
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My hope is to pay a littlw and find a couple who want repeat work and do a good job. Then go full speed on art from there. Programing jobs are harder to judge unless you are yourself a programmer and can tell of what they gave you is junk or not.

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So far at my scale it is easier to build it myself, I know each piece will be flexible and scale.

honest cipher
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thats basically the idea

hybrid phoenix
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Yep, that's why it works for art

honest cipher
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couple of those guys i hired did do cool stuff

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but i had to cancel the project as it was too ambitious

hybrid phoenix
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You can easily do little bits, check quality, re-commission those that you worked well with

hybrid phoenix
honest cipher
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ive heard of AAA companies doing that on a industrial scale with indians/southamerican/chinese offshoring

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literally hire 5000 artists

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no joke

hybrid phoenix
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For programming it'd be an aaabsolute nightmare

honest cipher
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and then keep only the stuff tha isnt absolute trash

cold inlet
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I come from the boring computer industry, never had good luck with outsourcing.

honest cipher
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for china its even better as in some of those cases they only pay the ones that did a decent work

cold inlet
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For programming anywah

honest cipher
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for programming you cant

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in programming you want a few good programmers and thats it

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everything else is a net loss

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you can build an AAA scale game (using ue4) on something like 10 programmers

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easy

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if they are senior level ones

cold inlet
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Yep, basically my job as a corporate drone more often than not was fixing mistakes made by others

honest cipher
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on art its a linear mass-produced thing

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so if you need random clutter objects for your city level

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go to fiberr, hire 500 3d modellers, and tell them to model clutter for the city

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then keep the ones that are usable

cold inlet
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Haha I gueas for AAA they got that sort of money.

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Depending on how much my critical art costs I will end up making my own clutter objects probably

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It is a battle of time vs money always though

hybrid phoenix
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If you can work a decent job odds are your time costs more than the time of a handful asian artists

cold inlet
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Ya and they will do a better job, if only I had infinite money (like those gme folk lol) it would be easy to buy their time, but I only got so much budget this year so I am doing a lot of calculating and scope control. I am optimistic i can afford having other people do all the art but I will not know until I get results.

pastel estuary
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you can have someone create your mmorpg game for only 43 euro on fiverr

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cant beat that

lilac walrus
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lol

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downside is that 99% of the code base is just a pirate WoW server

pastel estuary
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XD

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would be fun to do during a gamejam. just see how far you can get with a few hundred bucks and fiverr

lilac walrus
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you have 1 month and $100 to make a game

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good luck!

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you are of course, not allowed to do any of the work yourself

pastel estuary
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XD

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welp, 5 bucks to someone to set up perforce

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:p

lilac walrus
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5 bucks to get someone to design a game based on the theme

pastel estuary
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i found a vfx artist on fiverr that just has a video of tom shannons fireworks pack

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oh and a lighting artist I know, which i should slap for underselling his worth.

hybrid phoenix
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Aren't lighting artists in short supply? Think360

lilac walrus
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not really

pastel estuary
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350 euros for "I will develop money making 3d game or 3d project" pays for itself, makes you wonder why they dont make those games for themselves

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(ill stop now, its been a slow day XD)

lilac walrus
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to be fair, I've been considering doing little 30 minute adventure games in the style of the latest jam game I worked on, and I'd expect the budget would probably not be much higher than 350 euros average, lol

kindred mason
# lilac walrus to be fair, I've been considering doing little 30 minute adventure games in the ...

For a commercial launch? If so, it will be much more than that if you want to even remotely have any decent sales.

If it's just a thing to say you have shipped games and maybe get lucky on launch, maybe 350 would be okay (minus 100 for direct fee)

But for sure, especially if you count time spent (and your worth per hour), you would hit 350 real quick.

If you're going to be one of the folks that don't count their own worth in producing a project, if you do any sort of marketing/PR, those costs skyrocket rather quickly.

And if the plan is just use MP assets, maybe all free ones, cool, buy what you need, there's a chance you could only spend externally 350, but I still think that's unlikely.

Just depends on the goal for the project I suppose though. Too many things to factor.

lilac walrus
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lol, if I was including my time in there, I'd hit 350 in a day 😄

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but also, it's an average - asset re-use per game would drop the costs once you've done four or five

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particularly stuff like reusing anims etc

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commercial viability, I do not care for

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if I were trying to make money, I'd be spending money

kindred mason
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Aye, that is true. You would lower costs. But for me it's like... what's the point of putting in an effort to make a game for sale, but not actually put in the effort to sell it.

lilac walrus
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mostly just to recoup personal costs where possible

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selling at something like $3.50 a piece, it would take what, ~130 copies to break even?

kindred mason
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But your hope would be to sell over 100 copies without any/much marketing/pr spend.

lilac walrus
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it would be nice, over the lifetime of the game, but not necessary

kindred mason
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Yeah, maybe over the lifetime. But with platforms becoming more and more crowded, it will be easier and easier to get lost in the sauce.

cold inlet
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Commercial game at 350 invested eh? Am I stupid if my estimate is off by a couple of magnitudes from that, lol.

hybrid phoenix
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You should read the entire conversation to understand the context

cold inlet
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I saw it was to make back at 3.50 to break even but clearly the market is full of shovel ware already.

hybrid phoenix
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Farther up

dense knoll
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Question for you all
Can you be a Game Designer with a Game Arts degree?
Or is it misleading to say you are a Designer with that kind of qualification.

kindred mason
hybrid phoenix
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If you are in fact a game designer but happen to have an art degree, sure

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But art != game design

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So if you're asking "Is Game Designer and adequate title for an artist", then no, it is most definitely not

dense knoll
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sent you a DM

lilac walrus
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most game designers I have worked with have degrees ranging from literature, through anthropology, sociology etc - the degree itself isn't really very important

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I myself do not have a degree at all

loud condor
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Anyone can be a game designer

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However if you are talking about being a game designer on a game company then it’s a different story, they will usually want you to have some credentials first as far as I know

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That could be through a degree, or through being successful in individual or indie team projects

dull summit
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Hey guys! So I need some advice please. I’m currently a research assistant at Yale studying computational psychiatry. A field that leverages mathematical models to understand psychiatric illnesses. I’ve begun to really show some interest in using VR to understand these illnesses. Specifically, to unravel mechanisms that cause hallucinations. I really want to become knowledgeable in developing virtual environments and considering to do a summer internship. However, I’m not sure if there are any for those with minimum experience. I’ve played around with Unity to create a small environment using assets and programmed characters using C++. Could anyone direct me to possible internship opportunities I could look into? Or have any suggestions for me? Thank you!!

lilac walrus
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I doubt you'll find anything. Internships are intended for people who intend to work in the industry, as such they're rarely much less than a year long and the emphasis will be entirely centered around the assumption that the intern already has reasonable education and experience, and now needs to learn to operate in a commercial environment.

Industry internships don't teach you basic skills and will be given to people who will likely transition into a specific industry role, and revolve around that specific role (often the hope of junior in the offering company).

If you simply want to learn how to use things like Unreal, there are plenty of resources online, you just need to pick one thing to focus on at a time. The only practical way to learn to make things is to start making things.

dull summit
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Thank you!! @lilac walrus

stray vortex
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Hi, are there many careeroptions, once you can do, lets say, quite good stuff? and you are familiar with coding/BP/CPP? Are there also remote positions out there and is it very hard in general to find jobs/projects with the tec? Like for other techs i know it isnt, and they are often quite well paid too, maybe its a good question on that channel?

stray vortex
steel creek
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Design, for me, has been about pulling upon your knowledge to solve problems and tell stories in new and interesting ways. Good design I feel requires good head space to understand and assimilate knowledge, iterate those concepts, and reapply toward your goal space.

Everyone "can" design, but the more knowledge you can draw upon to construct your "designs" seems to be a class A feature of the "job".

Much like everyone can cook, but knowing what ingredients taste well together, and present a better visual, etc...

stray vortex
steel creek
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no, I speak of just general design.

stray vortex
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alright

woeful junco
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so i have like 17yrs webdev exp. what would it take to convince a game studio i have what it takes to break into a gamedev role?

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assuming i could survive the c++ whiteboarding session

spice dagger
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Id suggest starting on some side projects of your own to hone your skills first before even considering approaching a Studio for a position you most likely know nothing about.

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Get some experience first.

woeful junco
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you think if i had some complete game loops published in a portfolio somewhere that'd be enough?

spice dagger
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Just demonstrating you can do X feature would be better than nothing. If you want to be a Gameplay Programmer, build a simple weapons system, or inventory system. If you want to be a Tools Programmer, extend or create an Editor Tool that solves a simple problem. If you want to be a Technical Artist, throw together some awesome Materials and show them off in a showcase.

woeful junco
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targeting gameplay programmer

spice dagger
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Im assuming you like playing Games yourself?

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Find a feature you like from a game and replicate it in UE4 in your own project.

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Maybe you like MOBAs, create a simple Minion and setup the system to spawn a number of them in waves.

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Stuff like that.

woeful junco
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ya totally. that's exactly what i've been thinking to do. glad you are validating it

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i am loving Sub Rosa so i started copying the 3d model and rigging just solely by eye

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going to try implementing the wonky walking mechanic just by feel

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i actually do have a portfolio with some game prototypes that even support networked multiplayer, but its suffering some link rot. maybe i just need to dust it off. but the 3d modeling is really bad and has rigging is non-existent historically. but i've improved since last time. i will put more time into those existing seeds i started

spice dagger
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You should be showcasing what you have done that targets your preferred role. If your aiming to be a Gameplay Programmer, showing off a terribly modelled Character isnt going to say anything bad about your skills as a coder.

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Focus on what you want to become.

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Dont get caught up in making the "supporting" elements picture perfect.

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Focus on making your skill the best it can be and show that off instead.

woeful junco
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what is your understanding of a day in the life of a gameplay programmer? what types of challenges are they tackling?

spice dagger
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Thats a pretty broad question. Depends on the game, depends on its features, depends on its target audience.

woeful junco
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in general i've imagined it would be focused on implementing mechanics. all the client-side systems that make the game playable. the game loop

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if it were WoW it might be implemeneting lots of quests

spice dagger
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Anything that the player can do ingame the Gameplay Programmer will have had some input on.

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Currently im the sole programmer at the startup that im contracted to at the moment. Initially i was hired as a Gameplay programmer but now i wear a lot of hats.

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The team is small ~10 people.

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I have touched every element of the game.

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To give you an idea.

woeful junco
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ya i actually did hold a job for 5yrs making a popular kids game during its time, but i was primarily responsible for server side engineering. i got promoted multiple times and ended up wearing lots of hats. but that was a small studio of like 50 technical people. i think the AAA studios don't count it

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i've been applying to like Amazon Games, Zynga, WB Games, etc.

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high standards and low pay i think. initially.

spice dagger
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Yes well if your aiming for those types of positions at big companies, unfortunately you will need to have very demonstrable experience in your preferred discipline.

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And you wont get that experience without working for small studios first or before you spend some time on your own projects building those necessary skills.

woeful junco
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ya i am also feeling it may turn out to be a faster path to just go self-funded indie

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and keep my day job

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i'm at the top of my existing career ladder

spice dagger
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Thats what i did.

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I was working fulltime while on the side learning what i needed to.

digital gate
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to give you another idea @woeful junco, I'm a gameplay programmer but the most recent input related thing I worked on was a UI feature.

spice dagger
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Then slowly made the transition.

digital gate
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But I got the attention of my current studio with tools work

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Ostensibly I would be laser focused on something but I find a way to wear many hats still

spice dagger
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Once you learn the UE API you can pretty much move into any area you like.

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And start to specialize.

woeful junco
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that's where i feel i am at. i just have a hard time convincing others of it haha

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time to put my money where my mouth is i suppose

digital gate
spice dagger
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Yes well build a plugin or something.

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Solve some problem

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Demonstrate your skills by applying them to that problem

digital gate
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Or, think up some super flex execution of a gameplay mechanic. You can make a gun mod system so interesting (architecturally) that a studio will sponsor your visa.

woeful junco
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i feel the biggest thing i need is discipline. i feel i have the knowledge and capability to build a Phasmophobia clone or a Sub Rosa clone and make my first $1M on Steam. but as with artistry and all labors of love, it requires that consistency, dedication, and follow-through of execution to delivery.

spice dagger
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Then only bite off what you can chew.

digital gate
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This field isn't really a time-spent-gets-results field

spice dagger
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That to. If you work for someone else, you might spend months on a feature for it to be scrapped.

digital gate
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Plenty have made really solid games that didn't break even

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Not to get you to give up, only toss away the $$M idea

spice dagger
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Yes, lower your bar so that you can actually achieve something first.

woeful junco
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another concept i've been considering is joining up with some other indies like joint venture style, or contributing to an open source game. maybe i will try some of the unpaid gigs on here

digital gate
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Take a critical eye on what you join on with, if the goal is to present that as work later on in a portfolio

spice dagger
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If you want to get your feet wet and just see what your in for at a lower level, sure.

woeful junco
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great advice. thx you two 😄

digital gate
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Ofc! Best of luck

stray vortex
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Are plugins a biz?

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Im curios also if there are a lot of remote ue jobs out there?

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Best thing would go indie i guess :)

vocal meadow
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If your a lone developer plugins can be a fine business. It’s a bit different marketing to your peers than trying to reach user at the other end of the pipe dream.

If you go the plugin route prepare to do a lot of support material and emails. The voxel plugin is a great example of how to do plugins the right way.

If you can get a publisher to fund development you might be a dinosaur though you should consider taking such an offer (if there is one on the table). The term is so overused that EA will put out yarn and jail break titles sold at a discount and labeled as indie. Your might not really be doing yourself any favors by using that key phrase of a term (indie) unless bargain gaming is what you plan to offer.

#

Is always good to learn new things but it’s hard to say with certainty how quickly you could pick up a gig if your just starting up now

hybrid phoenix
#

The voxel plugin is a great example of how to do plugins the right way.
And it still has loads of people that are salty about the state of its documentation and such. Selling complex plugins and keeping casual customers happy in the process is tough

vocal meadow
#

To be fair I imagine it’s a vocal minority

hybrid phoenix
#

(Agree with Pat, just wanted to clarify that)

vocal meadow
#

But absolutely agree too, there’s never enough documentation and keeping on top of what documents exist is also paim

steady pewter
vocal meadow
#

Yo ryobg!

distant umbra
#

If you go to college there are usually lots of opportunities hidden in plain sight

#

My college constantly sends out research emails etc

#

I got a graduate job as a freshman

wet edge
#

Hi there,

If there's someone who's planning to create games for just mobile platform (multiplayer) (Android/ios), would unity be a better option? All the big gaming titles (mobas) mobile legends, LOL Wild rift, etc are using Unity engine.

Does unreal have a better mobile toolkit? Or can we optimize games built using unreal for mobile, without compromising too much quality?

90% of the assets in the marketplace are not designed for mobile platform. Hence, most of the plugins like Brushify etc won't work well on mobile.

kindred mason
#

At SCAD, we also had an opportunity (well, at least I did), to basically "Launch Pad" our careers with a game project that we created while in school. Sadly, at the time, I was still pretty green, and not everyone on the team wanted to stick around (they had dreams of going into AAA jobs), so that was a big missed opportunity early on. They would pay for all production, and get a cut. That was a basics.

Interestingly, those that didn't want to stick around, don't work in the game industry (they are off doing random non-gamedev things, sadly a waste of their degrees)

kindred mason
# wet edge Hi there, If there's someone who's planning to create games for just mobile pla...

Hm, not sure this is a career question, probably belongs more in #ue4-general, but technically AFAIK, Unity does have better mobile support/options than UE4, but there are plenty of plugins that can help you out in UE4. But, you know, Epic does have at least one recent mobile-only game (not sure if they globally released that yet though), and also obviously Fortnite is mobile. So, it's not like you can't get it done if you put in the time and effort.

#

Oh, Battle Breakers is def out

wet edge
#

Okay thanks, new to this discord server.

Fortnite and the unreal engine's demo game - Action RPG is no more on the App Store. Maybe because of the fact their issue with Apple?

Do you think there would be no issue for us (developers) to build and publish games to iOS using Unreal engine in the future?

kindred mason
hybrid phoenix
#

Doubt it, considering they were already forced by court to re-instate UE dev iOS licenses

timid mortar
#

What's the server policy with regard to hiring someone or paying for services in this community?

#

I've spent the last three days trying to figure out how to set up some stuff and, at this point, I'd be willing to pay someone to help me through it.

royal lintel
tired sable
hybrid phoenix
#

For 2D and mobile I'd generally recommend Unity over UE4, as they're things UE4 just mostly glosses over. Its development is very high-spec-centric

shadow wolf
#

Not exactly related to game developing but to programming in general:
Would you ever go to work in a place (a good and stable one tho) where they use their own proprietary language to code that you would have to learn from scratch and consequentially will not be able to use outside of that place in the future?

hybrid phoenix
#

Depending on the context I might consider the fact that they're using a proprietary language a massive red flag, but past that, it really doesn't matter much. If it's similar to other languages in the field you're in (which I'd expect it to be), it's really not an issue that you're working in a niche one, because you'll still be doing loads of logic and improving general programming knowledge

steady pewter
valid dune
#

Hey guys, I made a little portfolio and need your opinions if it's good enough to get a junior programmer position or game design spot. This video I made was for a specific studio and I know it's a bit long. I intend to shorten it and re-film the scenes of myself talking. I also know I need to be more upbeat and focus on how I am currently learning C++ written code more. When I filmed it, I was hungry and felt defeated out my own game making endeavors have not been profitable over time haha. Let me know what you guys think, be honest. I need some tips before I re-edit it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASsG4C0sPmQ

YouTube
Gary L
Mafic Studios Junior Programmer Application - Chris Larue

This is my application for the Junior Unreal Programmer position at Mafic Studios in Sudbury Ontario.

Contact me at gary.c.larue@gmail.com if you find my skills match your needs.

Thanks for watching and giving me a chance!

▶ Play video
valid dune
#

I would be applying to entry level. I didn't go to college or uni, I have a background in trades, but I think I know enough and am capable enough to get a job in the industry, but you guys let me know

celest hemlock
#

When you re-film the scenes of yourself talking, ditch the suit.

digital gate
#

Was this format specifically requested? I would trim it down a lot to make it snappier- don't mention things that aren't relevant to what you're showing... the first gameplay segment can be

"We spawn in next to this gigantic ship, to the test area I've set up with things I programmed. I'll be showing you a questline with [my | the games] quest system. I can summon this interactable widget. Taking inspiration from HL: Alyx, we can stow ... and remove items from a backpack. As I complete one quest, the widget updates (if you made the quest widget). Next up in the mission is some multi tool work. [i | we] made it so you can pick up and drop this item, cycle it through modes. We can extinguish the fires, and then repair these panels. That's something I like about test areas, you can make things was quicker."

#

Mentioning the other items you don't demo (maybe that can be after the panels, pick up and yeet that extinguisher) or talking at length about the ship might not be the best use of video time.

#

this should be every bit as scripted and edited as a text dump

#

Also seems strange to include an art segment? I skipped to about 8 minutes in, I thought at first you made an expression anim graph or something technical there. It's in the art section though which was more apparent as you described your env art process.

#

You can make multiple cuts of this, but what I did with my portfolio is just laser focused mechanic demos alongside a more traditional resume/portfolio page

#

also a bit of restructuring might be good

  1. quick personal blurb
  2. VR mechanics
  3. General mechanics
  4. Style mention (node tidyness)
  5. Source Control mention
  6. anything else
  7. link to art portfolio
valid dune
#

Thanks for your input man!

hybrid phoenix
#

Depends highly on how burnt out you really are, how well-off you currently are and what your greater aspirations in life are

lilac walrus
#

Burnout is one of the hardest problems to deal with, I usually deal with it by taking some time away from the problem task, and come back working on some small, tangential task to the bigger one that I'm struggling to sit down with. When the smaller task is dealt with, hopefully I'm back in the right mindset to deal with the bigger one.

hybrid phoenix
#

I've honestly started to give up on 'dealing' with burnout on my own projects a bit. I now just... Work on it when I can get myself to, and just let it go when I can't. In the end, my productivity during the driven moments pretty much compensates for the lack of productivity during my bad moments

lilac walrus
#

that doesn't help much if they're not your projects and you actually have deadlines and stuff to contend with though, hehe

hybrid phoenix
#

That's definitely true, hah. Guess it's a bit unrelated to the query at hand

kindred mason
#

What's the worst career advice anyone's gotten or seen?

steel creek
#

Pursue your dreams and everything will follow -- This is hard work, all disciplines, all fields of study, areas of research. Life is hard, and rewarding. Having a dream is great; but its not free unless you are already rich.

craggy nacelle
#

What if my dream is to not work how do I get money from that alex

steady pewter
#

Marry rich?

scenic moon
plucky hatch
#

Guys my dream is to work at Nintendo or square Enix, given that square Enix itself has been using unreal for a while do you think getting really sufficient with unreal would be enough?

daring geyser
#

That's not impossible to achieve, but you'll be competing against a significantly large market of highly experienced devs and industry vets. What are you looking to get into?

plucky hatch
#

Just general gameplay programming

#

Working primarily on things like the combat systems and whatnot

#

Don’t have a huge interest in cinematics programming but I’d also wanna do mini game programming and the like as well

#

Also just want to add the learning Japanese thing is not a problem I’m already sorted there

daring geyser
#

Gameplay programming tends to get very specific the larger the studio. Some studios do have "Game Programmer" adjacent roles, but those are highly competitive and will require extensive knowledge of vector/matrix mathematics, physics, some UI, OO principles, etc. You'll rarely have a say in what you want to work on, unless that role is specifically addressing that particular portion of a project.

#

This is doubly true for AAA corporate - level roles. The same rules apply for approaching applications: they're generally looking for past AAA experienced developers who have worked on systems of that scale.

plucky hatch
#

Looking at their website they graduate jobs

#

Do they still expect that kind of skill level when it comes to that

#

*they have graduate jobs

#

I’m willing to learn what I need though

daring geyser
#

Graduate, being Junior roles, obviously won't expect that level of competency, but again, you're competing against a large pool of equally - skilled and equipped students looking to break in. You'll need an impressive portfolio and demonstrate your technical problem solving and soft skills to stand out.

plucky hatch
#

Would recreating mechanics from their games be a good start

daring geyser
#

Recreating a company's game mechanics will give you no further advantage over another candidate who's presented a polished portfolio of their best work. Remember, your portfolio is aiming to demonstrate your knowledge and your best work. Being a professional Gameplay Programmer myself, I typically look at prospective candidates and consider:

  1. Do these projects show competency in an area we're looking to hire?
  2. Can I understand their problem solving process and approach to tackling a mechanic?
  3. Can they communicate this well in gameplay (i.e. Does the provided footage or description give me a clear overview of the work performed)?
plucky hatch
#

I think I get it. So they want to see my problem solving skills, ensure my code is readable and I accomplish what I’m doing to a good level of polish

#

Would you then say creating game mechanics in the same vein as the kind of games the company is trying to develop to a great level of polish would be a good place to start for a junior role. Not just copy pasting but putting my own spin on it as well?

daring geyser
#

Yep. Recruiters will rarely look at code samples at the junior level. That's generally reserved for more senior level positions. They'll generally get a good feel for your programming competency through programming tests, phone screenings, in - person interviews, etc.

plucky hatch
#

Does a lot of this come down to algorithm tests as well

daring geyser
daring geyser
plucky hatch
#

Alrighty then you’ve been really helpful thanks a lot! Gonna start working on this today.

lunar lotus
#

depends which tests

#

I'm in a AAA tokyo studio, we judge different.

plucky hatch
#

Anything specific?

#

Also do ya work for square lol

celest hemlock
#

Id imagine that for japanese studios, being proficient in japanese is also a requirement ?

unique umbra
#

As a AI programmer that started as a game programmer I would say problem solving, clean code and communication are the 3 top things. Engine knowledge and other things often gets picked up while doing them.

Worked with unity, lumberyard, and unreal. At the end of the day if you can solve a issue in one engine you can more then likely do so in the others with a bit of time.

#

@plucky hatch for interview tests I would assume they check the following: data structures, vector math, some algorithm to solve a problem, language specifics for the project + interpersonal skills.

plucky hatch
#

I think I got all that down

#

It’s just getting the interview in the first place is gonna be hard

unique umbra
#

To be honest shotgun the world do not limit yourself to applying to only 2 studios. They are your long term goal.

Once you have your foot in the door to the games industry it becomes easier.

plucky hatch
#

Will do been putting work in both unreal and unity because of this, even though both my dream jobs only use unreal between the two.

lime bramble
#

Can the linkedin profile be passed on here? To make a lot of contacts within the industry it would be useful

lilac walrus
#

I guess, but most people will likely ignore it

lime bramble
#

Maybe, but anyone who wants to extend their network has the option to send a friend request.

#

Anyway I'm not going to pass link because that should be forbidden, but you can look for me as Marcos Alebuena

stuck mountain
#

Is it worth making my own game studio? I really want to get a industry job, but I also want to be able to make my own games as well. What would be the best approach? Maybe make my own games on the weekends, and work during the weekdays?

cold inlet
#

build small prototypes to learn the tools you want to use, keep your day job and save your money, if you find something that is pure fun and is fully functional you can always start a studio then to finish it up and polish.

quiet zodiac
#

Is it possible to make money from your game on the app store without using ads?

lilac walrus
#

I wouldn't even consider 'making your own game studio' before you've had an industry job, that's more or less asking for failure. You want studio experience.

lilac walrus
#

a studio isn't a building or equipment, it's people, culture and experience

#

that's where the value is; you want to see the inside of few projects and learn the ins-and-outs of the development process before investing your own time and money into trying it for yourself. Learning the ropes is a part of building towards success, failing to invest in your own experience is just setting yourself in a position where you're considerably more likely to fail

obsidian fossil
#

this may sound a bit like a stupid question and there may be multiple answers, but what job(s) would design how characters function in game, for example what the abilities do and how they work for each champion in league of legends, or e.g. all of the bosses moves in a ds3 boss fight? Like it soudns like a designer/gameplay programmer/animator/concept artist thing so if anyone could clarify that would be great thanks!

flat gazelle
#

Design comes up with all of that, a team of various disciplines implement it.

obsidian fossil
flat gazelle
#

yes

#

Everything in gamedev is a teameffort.

obsidian fossil
#

okay thanks good to hear

umbral crest
#

yea, its a collaborative process
in my company, design generally know the lore and what a character is able to do
then consult other departments on how that could be implemented in game 🙂

cold flower
#

How can u get an interview at a studio ?
I would like to be an environment artist
Am currently updating and upgrading my portfolio with new content and was wondering what do I need to even get a interview.

umbral crest
#

do you know of any companies that you want to work for?
best to target a couple and tailor you portfolio to suite the job description

green oyster
#

get a good portfolio and people will ask you to come

umbral crest
#

i'm sorry but that's not good advice, i wouldn't recommend doing that

green oyster
#

you wouldn't recommend having a good portfolio?

dry hill
#

I think he means the "and people will ask you to come" part

#

Get a good portfolio is solid advice

#

But expecting jobs to turn up on their own might be problematic

#

Especially at first

#

Always takes a ton of work, asking, rejections, and more asking

#

Granted, once you have your own network, it'd be easier and more likely for jobs to find their way to you

flat gazelle
#

It changes over time. In the beginning you build a portfolio and apply for jobs. Then you get contacted based on the portfolio and eventually a portfolio becomes unnecessary.

lilac walrus
#

I mean, it doesn't really become unnecessary, it's just it becomes a list of your most recently shipped titles or whatever

umbral crest
#

from the question is sounds like someone wants to get into the industry
a 'good portfolio' is subjective
best advice is to target jobs you want and tailor your show reel to the skills they're looking for
if you want to be an environment artist, why would you include character animation in your show reel(i hope you get the point?)
there are lots of people eager to get a job in games, if you wait for someone to come to you, then your at a huge disadvantage

obviously when you have some experience, things get easier

flat gazelle
#

Yeah, but you don't necessarily need to put it together as a portfolio or reel at that point. You just talk to your network and progress from there. you become a known quantity.

#

It doesn't take many years to have a network that means you know someone pretty much everywhere.

green oyster
#

well it was a hyperbole 😆

umbral crest
#

maybe its just my view
but if someone is asking for advice
saying 'get a good portfolio' doesn't answer the question

green oyster
#

Well the question was how to get interviews so....

#

@cold flower if you want some more advice perhaps share what you have now

flat gazelle
#

End of the day, to get interviews, you apply for jobs. But to actually be called to the interviews you need to have a good enough portfolio.

cold flower
#

Thx every1.
Get a good portfolio is what I would like but that takes a long time.
Basically want to work in UK and everywhere but London.
I've got old stuff on my portfolio and want to finish the new stuff off before I show because going for a clean slate when it's all done.

lilac walrus
#

if you live in the UK, it's worth noting that you're probably only going to be employable in the UK and Ireland unless you're able to qualify for the visa restrictions for the specific other countries you're interested in

dry hill
#

Get a good portfolio is what I would like but that takes a long time.
I think that's generally the case, for a lot of industries

#

Took me a while to get my first dev position

#

Tons of rejections before you strike gold

dense knoll
#

is there a place to promote your youtube channel?

steady pewter
kindred mason
#

Hmmm. Debated on whether to post it here. But, does anyone have a line on decent video editors? Not looking for $10K/ea Derek Lieu 🙂

I thought about posting in the job boards to see what would bite, but since it's not really UE4-related, I figured it was better to ask around here, where people may have actually used them or know of editors. Anyone that you can find by simply Googling "Indie Game Video Trailer Maker (or similar)", is probably not someone I am looking for (as I have probably already contacted them).

plucky hatch
#

Hey guys, I just want to focus primarily on gameplay programming without having to waste time learning other things like 3d modelling and what not as that's my career goal. What do you think is the best course of action I should take in the case that I want to make prototypes to show off my skills on a CV?

lilac walrus
#

I'm a bit lost - if you want to focus on gameplay programming and make prototypes, do exactly that

#

if you're not focused on art, then don't worry about making art and use what's available that gets the job done

#

for the most part, it feels like your question is answering your question 😄

plucky hatch
#

In the case that I want to make certain mechanics what should I do in the case that no free resources are available

#

stuff like that haha

lilac walrus
#

if you really need certain assets and you can't get them for free, then you'll have to buy or commission them

#

though most gameplay programming tends to be pretty independent of art, so I wouldn't usually expect that to be a problem

plucky hatch
#

Yeah I guess I’ll just worry about it if I come across it then thanks

craggy nacelle
#

tbh you can learn basic 3d modeling and such pretty easily, and having at least a rudimentary understanding of how that stuff works is helpful

#

for prototypes and stuff you can pretty much get away with boxy programmer 3d models so not like you gotta spend tons of time on it lol

plucky hatch
#

I just need basic things like animating sword strikes or wall running or practice making cutscenes

#

Is that kinda stuff easy to learn

craggy nacelle
#

basic animation is not super hard, it can be a bit time consuming at first as there is a lot of terminology and new things, but once you learn the basics it won't be too bad

#

you can also quite easily make use of something like assets from Mixamo where they have a lot of animations and models available

plucky hatch
#

So like say I want to recreate the combat system from kingdom hearts, I'd need a wall running sprite, some basic sword swinging combos, flip and double jump animation. Climbing and Wall hanging too, is that kinda stuff easy enough to get to an acceptable level?

#

I don't really understand how rigging works that well yet, so I don't know if the animations I make myself will be compatible with the maximo ones

#

I should probably just dive into a course instead of asking so many questions lol

#

dis fear of wasting my time has made me waste more time haha

hybrid phoenix
#

None of this is going to be easy if you don't know what you're doing, and the only way you're going to start to know what you're doing is by just starting to do stuff

#

So yeah, have at it, the question you're asking isn't a useful one to be asking and won't help you get where you want to be 😬

#

You'll run into issues as you start doing things, and those issues will drive your learning in a very practical manner. Most effective way to learn this stuff, in my experience

plucky hatch
#

Absolutely I just went ahead and bought a blender course, will probably smash through it alongside my gameplay dev

craggy nacelle
#

I think you have to adjust what you build based on your skills

#

For example you could go full on cool animations and shizzle, but learning to do it really well with rigged animation etc. takes time

#

On the other hand you could use something more basic, and for example a sword swing can simply wipe the sword actor in an arc that's just hardcoded in code :D

#

Neither of these approaches is necessarily the "right way" to do it, it all depends on how you want to spend your time and what you find interesting to work on when learning

plucky hatch
#

I’ll see when I do it haha. I don’t anything super cool looking just functional looking enough

west sonnet
boreal violet
#

Hello, is this the thread there I may introduce my project and ask if anyone mind to join in?

wary idol
tawny willow
plucky hatch
#

Hi, I'm planning to start with UE, I would like to mostly focus on film, VR and AR, I've seen a lot of documentation online, however I would appreciate if you guys can share any tips and/or links where to begin.

Cheers,

rare orchid
plucky hatch
#

Many thanks!

somber brook
#

Hey folks, I'm curious if anyone is aware of the kinds of questions one can expect for a Narrative Designer interview on a AAA game, preferably a shooter.

crude shard
#

I was looking for a contract job , and someone showed up and I asked for 30$/h payment ,and he says I'm asking for something higher than industry standard ! if that's true I must say its a very bad industry and needs to be changed !

echo fossil
#

standard minimum*

fickle hatch
wary idol
#

I'm not sure about 3d work but programmer positions can easily go for double of that, especially contract jobs/temporary positions

#

of course it depends on your experience and knowledge

crude shard
# wary idol I'm not sure about 3d work but programmer positions can easily go for double of ...

I have 4 years of experience , can do pretty much anything I've developed custom Engines for people! problem is if I had invested all this time and energy on anything else other than game development I would have been in a better financial state!its only my passion that keeps me here!Game Development is one of most money making industries with a huge market cap but its usually third party corporations / businessmen who take biggest part of the cake !

steady pewter
#

"Game Development is one of most money making industries" huh... You sure?

wary idol
#

it depends , it's a very risky one as well

steady pewter
#

It is like entertainment industry. Few reach high, rest look up to them. People do it for fun, so many compromises are made. While true it is very high and still rising as money, individuals are not well paid so much at all.

crude shard
#

Software development market size is less than 40bn

steady pewter
#

Yeah, now if that was a factor all people working there would be well paid, but they are not. That what I'm saying.

#

But I admit I'm talking without facts, so take the money, take the people, take the companies and see how the money are split.

wary idol
#

Well payed is a relative term
Where cost of living is relatively low and average monthly wage is 700$ getting paid for example $4k a month is a lot compared to someone else who would barely cover the cost of living with that

steady pewter
#

Yea, it is complex topic. International sell of software makes it obvious. Countries which has like min. wage of 300$ pay the same price for software as the ones where it is few times more.

wary idol
#

yeah

marsh stream
#

Hi guys, I wanted to ask how often in your job do you forget how how to do things in UE4?
I feel like I've made some pretty cool projects in cpp but I regularly forget how I did it or how to create basic things like an ENUM (like setting it up in .h etc) and I have to go back and check (thats just 1 example). How do people retain so much info about different classes and use cases for each one. I have read programmers say jokefully that they are always on stackoverflow. Was hoping I wasn't the only one that regularly needs to get reference/info on basic stuff because I simply forget : /

obtuse ether
#

Don't insult yourself for having regularly check StackOverflow

#

its a joke, not because its false, but because its an experience everyone has

steady pewter
#

If you don't use something it gets forgotten, it is totally normal 🤷‍♂️

cursive sail
#

I write a lot of little notes of how to do things. On everything from Unreal Engine stuff to compiler flags to Docker commands to inspecting library dependencies, and so on.

wary idol
#

When I have to revisit some of my old systems only god knows how that thing works
Even with comments and everything it still takes me a good while to remember it

#

it's completely normal to forget things you haven't used in a while

craggy nacelle
#

there's a bunch of random things I remember that I haven't used in a long time but other things that I never remember like the order of arguments for some builtins in JavaScript (which is a language I've used over 10 years overall)

hybrid phoenix
#

I have a lot of these things that just... Never click for me. So whenever I need them I'll go "Right... This is one of those things. Let's go look at a place where I already did this"

#

It's really a non-issue

#

There's quite a lot of things you don't use often that have weird syntax or specifics you'll forget about

#

And it's because you don't touch them regularly

marsh stream
marsh stream
marsh stream
stuck mountain
#

What is the best way to get a summer game development internship? I have 2+ years C++ & ue4 xp, and I am learning C# and Unity

#

Really wanting to get paid for game dev stuff

steady pewter
#

lol

#

Huh... post gone. Anyway...

fickle hatch
distant dust
#

Hi!

Im just starting in this industry (by that i mean ive chosen GCSEs specialized around things ill need) and im learning Unreal Engine and all that good stuff as i want to be a game developer. My problem ive recently thought of is while i love making games, i dont really have a "preferred part of making games". As in i dont have a preferred part of making games as when im practicing or developing on my own you have to do all of it while in a studio you have one role in a big team or something. This feels like it may make it harder for me to get a job in the future with it because of it being such a broad range.

Thanks!

last coyote
#

I can relate to that sentiment Titch

distant dust
#

Yeah, i imagine it isnt something i need to worry about at this stage, but i just dont wanna be asked "what do you specialize in" or something and say "well actually.." kind of thing.

#

i suppose if i go further and continue with my studies and all that stuff, itll all figure out at some point

fickle hatch
#

Have you explored trying to do those things? Nothing wrong with trying to poke around different aspects of it until you find the ones which work best for you

#

Plus, you have to understand the reason for specialization. Usually, specializing is a good advice not because the industry needs narrow specialists, but because a specialist has put in thousands upon thousands of hours into his craft

#

A person who put 1,000 hours into making 3D models is more desirable than a person who put 10 hours into 100 things

distant dust
#

Yeah thats my thing i havent gotten enough experience with it to specifiy. I can say tho im NOT doing map design as i am not good at that at all. Biggest bug in my school project was corners got you stuck cos my models never closed.

distant dust
fickle hatch
#

If you strongly feel like you have a lean towards multiple things, don't be a generalist - be a multi-specialist

#

You have to have at least one deep specialization to be able to "do it all"

distant dust
#

Yeah, i imagine itll work out in the end like it has done (hopefully) for... most people in this discord and/or will work out in the future

fickle hatch
#

Before I got to a place where I am (working with multiple fields and helping people bridge through many engineering and artistic fields), I focused on just one skill (in my case, it was programming)

#

So when I started expanding horizons, so to say, I already had enough programming skills to be able to complete real projects in a real environment

trim topaz
fickle hatch
umbral crest
#

@distant dust keep trying out different areas of game development, there's plenty of tutorials out there
one pieces of advice that i was given was to try and categorise jobs into 3 areas

  • my favourite things to do (what you want to specialise in)
  • the things i can do (not your favourite but your happy to do them)
  • and the things i hate doing (you want to avoid these as much as possible)

you might not have a 'favourite' job, so you wont know where to specialise yet
but maybe you've come across some jobs that you hated doing and want to avoid at all costs

distant dust
umbral crest
#

my advice is to too keep an eye out for free assets on unreal market place, they give away new stuff every month too
grab as much map and animation stuff as possible
there's no shame in using these assets for things you don't like doing!

oh if your based in the UK and thinking about university, look at University of Hertfordshire, i went there 🙂

distant dust
verbal gate
#

Hello! can someone proofread my essay for the MSCS graduate program at DigiPen?

fickle hatch
verbal gate
#

Subject means?

#

prompts?

fickle hatch
#

Theme. I can proof read things, but I’d like it to be something I know about

verbal gate
#

Yes I will send you the themes with the essay!

#

Sending you a DM

fickle hatch
#

Ah okay, makes sense. It fits this channels theme perfectly

drifting stratus
#

I thought that i was a decent programmer considering i made and published a game that got almost a hundred thousand downloads, but these hackerrank, leetcode, and codingame type puzzles are ma king me really question my ability as a programmer. I thought that i knew stuff, turns out i dont know any thing at all. I'm a big fake.

flat gazelle
#

Aren't we all

drifting stratus
#

There's literally nothing more important to employers than passing these puzzles

#

and I can't do it

#

So I'm essentially just going to fail

flat gazelle
#

Well, you tried

hybrid phoenix
#

How long have you been programming?

drifting stratus
#

For a very long time

#

But I haven't been interested in programming to do these tests. I've been doing it because I love making stuff do stuff.

#

I like to make stuff. But I have no interest in these puzzles.

hybrid phoenix
#

Well, if you're not interested in the intensely technical side of programming, then... I don't see why you'd be worried about not being very good at it

drifting stratus
#

I started coding in Java making RuneScape private servers when I was in high school back in like 2008

hybrid phoenix
#

I've been programming for nearly a decade now, and I don't think I'd ever get into anything other than maybe a junior position

drifting stratus
#

Well, companies require you to pass these tests

#

They require me to do it

#

They demand me to pass these puzzles

hybrid phoenix
#

Well, if you're looking to be a programmer for a living, then you probably need to be good at the technical side of it

#

I'm not familiar with these puzzles

#

So I can't comment on whether they're sensible

#

There's two options, and I suspect you'll know for yourself which it is

drifting stratus
#

How about this one

hybrid phoenix
#

Either you're actually an awful programmer

drifting stratus
#

Do you know how to do these?

hybrid phoenix
#

Or these puzzles are just not your cup of tea

drifting stratus
#

This one is one none of my friends could figure out so far

hybrid phoenix
#

Egh, this sort of stuff is awful

drifting stratus
#

It sounds more simple than it is

hybrid phoenix
#

If companies are making you do these, don't work for those companies 😛

#

The moment I see a wall of text like that my brain goes 'bzzt'

#

It's uninteresting and frustrating

drifting stratus
#

Yeah

hybrid phoenix
#

And incredibly easy to get an information overload because it just doesn't make any sense

drifting stratus
#

Well every company wants this

#

It's not just a few

hybrid phoenix
#

In gamedev?

drifting stratus
#

Yes

#

I interviewed with multiple game companies already

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AAA game studios

hybrid phoenix
#

Which ones?

drifting stratus
#

They all require similar stuff

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Suckerpunch, Sledgehammer (I passed this one, didn't get offer, came in second place), just to name a few

#

I've done a few more, but mostly are indie

#

Suckerpunch and Sledge are AAA tho

#

my mind is blank right now

#

Suckerpunch wanted me to write a memory allocator from scratch

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I couldn't do it

#

Sledgehammer was fair though, in my opinion

#

But some of the other places have asked me very weird stuff

hybrid phoenix
#

Suckerpunch I really wouldn't be surprised if they just have awful hiring practices, honestly

drifting stratus
#

Like how to calculate the view frustrum of an object colliding another object

#

idk how to do that ^

#

lol

hybrid phoenix
#

Which positions are you applying for?

#

For the record, I'm not a programmer. I'm a tech-artist for a living

drifting stratus
#

Usually entry level programming positions

hybrid phoenix
#

So I don't actually have experience with the programming side of things

drifting stratus
#

They seem to be much easier

#

My goal is to work in a AAA studio so I can get AAA experience, and t hen start my own studio

#

I think that investors will be more likely to give me money if they see I have experience

fickle hatch
#

I've done these puzzles as a kid, they are often more mathematical than programming related

drifting stratus
#

i'm not good at them

wary idol
#

I don't think those tests are good for testing programming skills, those are mathematical problems

fickle hatch
#

But not entirely, memory allocators still require you to know graphs and such

#

Red black trees and other animals

drifting stratus
#

yeah

#

so the biggest problem is that i dont have a formal education in computer science

#

my degree is in digital simulation

#

which is more focused on doing stuff like 3d modeling, animation

fickle hatch
#

For practical programming, you can do away with just learning about basic data structures

drifting stratus
#

does that make sense?

fickle hatch
#

You don't need to go in-depth into computer science, but you need to know the basics of graph theory, graph search algorithms (just need to understand them in principle at least), basic sorting etc etc

#

Those things pop up all the time and even if using pre-existing data structures, still desirable to understand how they operate under the hook, what are their strengths and weaknesses

drifting stratus
#

yea

#

i mean i've never really needed to make a lot of the data structures from scratch

#

a lot of them are already made for me in a lot of languages

fickle hatch
#

Do you know the simple stuff, e.g. what's the difference between a map and an array?

#

How long does it take to insert an element into an array, into a map, into a linked list?

#

These things matter even if you're using an existing implementation

#

https://www.bigocheatsheet.com/ e.g. this is basic computer engineering knowledge, if you use any data structures, you must understand at least in principle the complexity of each operation

drifting stratus
#

@fickle hatch yeah i know about a lot of this stuff

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@fickle hatch what i dont understand though is

#

why don't companies test on the actual stuff ur going to be using?

#

like if a job says "Maintain and create build pipelines in jenkins" why don't you give me a test that relates directly to jenkins?

#

why do they want to give me a random test on something unrelated?

fickle hatch
#

Writing a memory allocator sounds like a reasonable test question for some programming positions to me

#

It is a real world task, though it's usually done for you, you do end up having to write niche 'allocators' and pools tailored to specific goals sometimes

#

Maybe not writing a full R&B tree based mem allocator that works for all sizes, but something simple and block based yes

jagged leaf
#

I had it where your'e asked to design custom rtrees from scratch for web dev and devops positions, aka skills that are useless for such roles. I think some places use questions that are geared towards those coming right out of university, where the applicant will know theory, and not know that they're being paid a lot less for the same work.

drifting stratus
drifting stratus
#

@fickle hatch Honestly, it's embarassing to say but I didn't even know about BIG-O until an interviewer mentioned it

#

._.

pure flame
#

I think Dan makes a valid point. I work at a mobile software company and we give practical tests where candidates showcase skills they will be using on a daily basis, not things that can be googled and applied in theoretical niche cases. I would only agree with that if you know the position is highly focused around it, otherwise you are missing out on good candidates who are extremely capable and who would otherwise learn this niche case in the span of a day or two with research. Just because you can program doesn’t mean you know how to conduct a proper interview, and the companies who test on computer science principals like this for practical positions are simply shooting themselves in the foot. You can still be taught proper coding techniques, clean architecture, and the like to build great apps without understanding all of the theory behind them (I’ve seen it). /endrant

#

Haven’t had to even touch big O in 3 years of building an app so you can’t possibly sell me on how important it is to understand it over the other 99% of applicable skills to software development. The truth is, a lot of companies don’t know how to properly interview candidates.

royal lintel
#

I think this misses the point of why questions like that are supposedly asked (not that I want to defend interviewing practices - most companies are shit in that regard). It's not that you'll necessarily use big O or write a custom container class or whatever, it's that it's the easiest way an interviewer can tell whether you understand the concepts - which, for many positions, will be important to some degree. Big O isn't important, but understanding how your code will scale in different situations is (not that learning big o is the way to know that, but just that it's an "easy" way for interviewers to get a glimpse of what you know). Making a container class isn't important but understanding their properties is.
Unfortunately the reality is most interviews are "lazy" about questions and don't see much purpose in asking about those things beyond being able to prove you memorized them or had a formal education at some point (which is barely relevant). imo you should be able to describe these concepts rather than have to implement them - leave implementation stuff for simpler questions just to prove you know the bare minimum of whatever style of programming is required.
That said, if you're going for a web dev position and are asked to implement a binary tree or something like that, that's a whole different story. There's obviously some degree of relevance that should be necessary...

pure flame
#

Imo asking for a practical test of skills in the applied field of the position trumps any understanding of theory when it comes time to deliver a product. There are individuals without degrees in computer science who have read and understand the basic principals, who could write a fully functional, optimized application, but who would freeze up and fail on the spot when having to create CS based functions or binary trees. Believe it or not, the understanding of computer science and computational theory does not make you a good programmer, and the same applies in the reverse order. They don’t need to regurgitate computer science principals to know what they are doing and perform the job you are hiring them for. Understanding core concepts like that means nothing more than you studied those concepts and understand them. Why would I want to test you on that knowledge when instead I want to see how creative you are in problem solving real world problems? The college graduate will know the answer to your binary tree question, but won’t know jack about properly architecting a solution to a piece of your project. Someone with years of application development experience with properly learned and applied methods who can’t solve that same question on the spot, will. I will always support practical tests over theoretical because it will always give you a better gauge of what they actually know for what is needed in the position.

#

Again, asking questions that apply to the 99% of one’s daily tasks makes far more sense than asking questions that would come up on a college exam or in the 1% of their workload. That 1% can easily be googled and applied when they have practical problem solving skills instead of memorizing theories that can simply be googled.

willow heart
#

game dev good iz

#

unreal engine and unity

royal lintel
# pure flame Again, asking questions that apply to the 99% of one’s daily tasks makes far mor...

I'd agree with that. Practical tests are definitely a better measure than generic whiteboarding stuff. I know some shops do it, would be nice to see it expanded.
I think one reason you don't see it quite that much (aside from "traditional" interviews just being ingrained in everyone) is that I'd expect it to put extra burden on both sides of the interview. Would be interested to see how places that have successfully done more practical tests have worked it out.

pure flame
# royal lintel I'd agree with that. Practical tests are definitely a better measure than generi...

I think you hit the nail on the head with that one. Companies don’t have, or don’t make time to create proper skill tests most of the time so they end up googling “game dev interview questions” and then literally forcing the candidate to whiteboard something they care nothing about to prove that they know stuff. It is a lot harder on both sides but it shows effort on both sides and will result with much better results in the end. I don’t know if I’m allowed to say this but Disney mobile does it perfectly. They send you endpoints and tell you to display actual Disney+ info in a sample application which displays your knowledge of compiler, architecture, specific language, and then solve an issue at the same time. This should be regarded as the gold standard for testing as most other white boarding questions are impractical and imo lazy as hell.

plucky hatch
#

A somewhat related comment, mostly reminiscing and talking to myself 😄

I interviewed people before in various technical positions, not necessarily game dev related. I asked them only two things (I'm going to use you in the example to make a point)

  1. When stuff hit the fan, how did you solve the problem. Not your team, not your friend, not your manager, but you.
  2. Tell me the validity of the following syllogism: If sometimes 12 equals 6 * 2 and sometimes 12 equals 4 * 3, does sometimes 4 * 3 equals 6 * 2?

100% failed the syllogism question. They shouldn't have, as syllogism being instrumental for correct reasoning, should be as ubiquitous and internalized as the multiplication table. Not a deal breaker, it was just my long-term gotcha question.
After interviewing candidates, I usually recommended hiring people displaying efficient problem-solving skills for 1.

I'm not here to debate if I'm right or wrong in my approach, it's just one example of interviewing candidates, at least in my case when I was involved 😄

honest cipher
#

practical tasks are great, but you do still want to do some algorithm bullshit on the candidates

#

turns out algorithm bullshit culls 99% of applicants or some absolutely ridiculous % like that, and they can easily be done, so its a low effort way to cull people

#

on the survivors you can have a proper test

#

a programmer that cant do some algorithm puzzles needs to go back to school a bit. While they seem super abstract, there are places where you absolutely do run into them

#

luckily, you dont even need that much. What you need to check is.
Algorithms.
Data structures.
Graph theory (basics).
Most often those 3 are the same singular subject

#

every programmer should know those very well

#

they are often taught in year 1 or 2 of university, and you dont really need the rest of the degree, thats the core of everything

drifting stratus
honest cipher
#

@drifting stratus well, you do want to have a culling barrier

#

thats why fizzbuzz is still a thing

#

it looks stupid but fizbuzz culls 50% of applicants

#

thats why you do this sort of excersises, is a low effort way to cull the clearly incompetent

drifting stratus
#

@honest cipher I mean why don't we just start doing what Stanford university is doing?

#

They made entire courses around simply solving these problems

honest cipher
#

And tahts good

drifting stratus
#

In the end, the goal of a degree is to get a job

honest cipher
#

if you learn to solve those sort of problems you have to learn algorithms

#

no way around it

drifting stratus
#

So why not only teach algorithms, data structures, and have courses on hackerrank and leetcode?

#

Why not ONLY do t hat

#

Nothing else but that.

honest cipher
#

because the rest is still useful

#

but i think algorithms/datastructures is the core of CS

drifting stratus
#

But the rest won't be used to help you get a job, so it doesn't matter.

honest cipher
#

oh it will, just not as much

#

if you have good algorithm thinking you understand whats behind programmign

#

and can basically do anything

drifting stratus
#

Personally, I think the education system should be completely changed to focus students towards passing interviews.

#

And nothing more.

#

Every class you take should be about passing interviews.

#

Give the employers what they want.

#

Daily reminder. Your ability to code and value as a programmer is determined by your ability to pass computer science puzzles.

#

Puzzles directly correlate to value

cold inlet
# drifting stratus https://www.hackerrank.com/challenges/new-year-chaos/problem?isFullScreen=true

Depends on how long you are given to solve the problem. As a hiring lead I would give credit to anyone who can at least come up with a brute force algorithm that solves the simpler cases. With increasing credit the closer you get to solving more sub-scenarios. I think it is a plus you can solve these sort of problems, but plenty of good coders probably can get only so far on this in a short time, still could be great at getting work done, just not puzzle solvers. Your approach is more important than results in some cases.

drifting stratus
honest cipher
#

its trivial

#

its literally just a sort

#

you dont need to do much it seems. Only need to check which elements are out of order

#

ive seen significantly harder excersises in hackerrank

drifting stratus
#

Would you mind doing it and sharing your solution with me so I can learn?

pure flame
#

I understand culling candidates through algorithmic questions seems like a good idea, but culling should happen through their resume and a phone interview and then their practical take home test will tell you loads more than the algorithmic question. If you want to throw something like that in the test then sure why not make that the problem to solve, but again, that type of thing is usually googlable to find the best answer and doesn’t display problem solving skills for app related problems. Those questions can be good for determining what kind of a background the programmer has and thats about it. The practical test will tell you if they will be good at their job.

drifting stratus
# pure flame I understand culling candidates through algorithmic questions seems like a good ...

I mean I think it's clear here that the people who make these problems are intentionally trying to fail you. They aren't trying to find good programmers, they are trying to find people who fit into a certain pre-defined set of criteria that is unknown to the interviewee. I think the goal of trying to "cull out" people is literally no different from trying to "fail" people. I think it tells you a lot about an interview process if the goal is simply to fail as many people as possible and then simply base it on anyone who "survives" the attack as viable options. This is nothing less than survivorship bias.

cold inlet
#

I think it is a problem that can take a lot of efdort to solve perfectly, but to show progress on it during an interview should not be too hard. I usually prefer simpler problems as some of these you have to understand a trick to solve it quickly

#

If it is like solve this in 15 minutes while i am watching you i do think that is unreasonable

#

As an interviewer I hate having to interview tons and tons of people, i am hoping each one that makes it to an in person interview is successful as I have spent a nice chunk of time reviewing their resume, phone call, and discussing them before they even made it in the door. Just failing them for any reason is the last thing I want, but I am going to make sure they can do the job as I will be stuck wit them for months after the decision.

drifting stratus
cold inlet
#

That should come up before you get too far in the hiring process. Visas are an added complication so usually that has not been an option at my level.

pure flame
#

Yea I’m all for testing someone’s knowledge for the job. I just disagree with how a lot of companies do it. Mine does it the right way and we have nothing but excellent talent because of it.

fickle hatch
#

I hired a few people for my project. I hired them from the modding community for the project that they ended up working on

#

It was so sweet, they already passed all the interview tests by just making their mods

fickle hatch
#

Can’t imagine a core low level programmer for a non junior kinda job who doesn’t know those things - as those algorithmic things are pretty common to work with in the kinda stuff that I’d be hiring a core programmer for

#

UI programming though - completely different and there algorithms become just a familiarity question and not an interview one

fickle hatch
#

So in many ways, it’s preparing for the job, but the lack of degree can be compensated by experience and personal work

drifting stratus
#

But I bet if you were to explain to me a real-world example. I would know what it ACTUALLY is.

fickle hatch
#

Just to clarify, my position is that tests must be practical ones

drifting stratus
#

But "graph theory" means nothing to me.

fickle hatch
#

I just consider graph theory to be practical for core systems kinda programming

drifting stratus
#

Hey man, maybe I'm an idiot though lol

fickle hatch
#

Because I’ve done it myself and I’ve had to use a lot of that algorithmic knowledge

#

So my suggestion for those tests relates only to a narrow subset of programming works

fickle hatch
#

If you’ve ever worked with a system where objects were related to other objects, you probably ended up using parts of graph theory in your work

#

“Find all objects with dependencies to current one”, “find shortest path on the nav mesh”, “what is the list of all objects in a folder including sub folders”

cold inlet
#

Very few programmers use their computer science degree knowledge. That is true. I think I am one of the few to even use calculus in a work project and that was a one off. I agree for ui or web such knowledge may not be a requirement but you must be able to start tackling the problem. The problem you posted should not be hard for any senior programmer.

#

Even without a formal education you should be able to read the problem and figure out some of the solution.

drifting stratus
#

Honestly, my solution to this problem has been to simply go back to school, and study a masters degree with a program which is more related to CS

#

So I'm studying machine learning

cold inlet
#

For junior guy just doing a UI I probably would not use that problem. I would test their UI toolkit knowledge.

drifting stratus
cold inlet
#

I guess there is a difference between using the unreal engine and understanding how it works. It may be unfair but a lot of companies hire for the latter even if most of the work will bw the former.

fickle hatch
drifting stratus
#

I don't code to do random puzzles, I just code for fun because I like to see stuff happen. I find it really exciting to see a character on the screen move for example over the network when I configure it with unique animations.

#

That's exciting to me

#

But doing random sorting algorithms is boring as shit

#

But yea

fickle hatch
cold inlet
#

I agree, until it is your job to optimize game performance and understanding sorting algorithms and complexity is key to that.

fickle hatch
#

In absence of anyone else with the relevant skill, I'm the one to do the engineering work in addition to programming on my projects

cold inlet
#

What do you do BlackFox?

drifting stratus
#

I mean I will say that I'm not the best programmer in the world

#

But I don't think anyone is

cold inlet
#

I only used calc for an AI I invented. But i mostly worked in business, not sciences.

fickle hatch
# cold inlet What do you do BlackFox?

I'm best at complex systems (in general case, not just in context of programming), but right now my main project is an engineering subway train simulator

#

A digital twin type recreation of the real subway system and trains in it, every electric component, every wire, every button and switch, that sorta deal

cold inlet
#

Neat.

fickle hatch
#

Calculus involved in building every single physics model and then tying it all together

#

To attain the desired goals, the project uses a lot of little niche tailored algorithms

cold inlet
#

Ya I did a lot more calculus related progeamming back in school when I made my own game enhine

fickle hatch
#

That have terrible worst case performance, but incredible niche case performance

#

And are very simple algorithms that just make everything easier and simpler (but put constraints on how you can use them - they are only applicable in a niche)

cold inlet
#

Ya but to do that sort of work you need someone who can do algorithms

fickle hatch
#

So optimization of complexity is the main optimization that applies in these kinda things, I don't do much low level optimization until it becomes really really necessary (it almost never does)

#

What is the fastest algorithm for doing anything? Well, the one that doesn't run of course

#

How do you find a path from point A to point B? The fastest way is to avoid running any graph pathfinding at all haha

cold inlet
#

Right but when it comes to hiring that sort of position you probsbly are askinh for a lot of experience or posing architectural or puzzle problems for your candidate to solve.

fickle hatch
#

I would never give puzzles to anyone interviewing for that kinda high responsibility position - I would have to interview them in-depth in a free format

cold inlet
#

Although at a high level you stop asking the puzzles and it is more based off resume and conversations to figure out their k owlesge.

#

Yep frew format interviews at that level

fickle hatch
#

Like, I would never trust the HR process with that kind of complex programming

#

The knowledge of what big-O means is more important at that point than understanding the theory behind big-O. You can understand the big-O stuff without understanding what big-O even is

#

I actually never went through a proper HR process myself ha ha

#

My first job hired me based on my work, I got contacted by my future boss and we took a ride on a train, it was all very conspiracy like. He told me what they want to work on and asked if I'd be interested

cold inlet
#

Well that is the original question, how to make it through AAA studio interviews. It is unfortunate but you gotta get past the tests to gdt in the door usually.

drifting stratus
#

I got an interview with EA next week

#

🙂

cold inlet
#

Well I never worked on game industry but if I were to try I would be building something in unreal, honing my c++, and make sure I can demo knowledge of all the basic game problems I can think of. When it comes to puzzles just charge at the problem, find one piece and chew it off and do your best, then from there chew off the next

#

Got to avoid shutting down when it is presented, find a site and start practicing some.

drifting stratus
#

What do u mean

#

shutting down?

fickle hatch
#

Frozen stiff realizing you don't know the answer

drifting stratus
#

u mean just being nervous?

#

anxiety?

dry hill
#

Even if you can't find the answer, you already score points for working through a problem logically

steady pewter
#

"employers are also just trying to see how you think" - being on the both sides of the table, I can confirm. In fact, that what I mostly look at. How you are approaching problem solving, the rest is just normal character skills.

drifting stratus
#

Is it possible to fail a test and still get hired

#

I don't think so

#

because if even just 1 other person passes

#

they get in

#

lol

#

and what's the likeliness of out of 100~ applicants, not one passes?

#

very low i would assume

steady pewter
#

You know, companies are all different. You might happen to be in one like these.

cold inlet
#

Ya i have hired people that did not solve it but started thinking out loud and made progress.

#

That is what most are looking for, thought process and whether you can get started on a problem.

pure flame
#

I have a good friend who is now the most senior/lead dev who interviewed at a AAA studio that forced him to do some bullshit whiteboard problem and didn’t take him because he didn’t get it right, but the very next company who gave him a practical test took him immediately and negotiated up. One of the smartest people I know. Bad interview questions are bad interview questions. You can make just about anyone look stupid under pressure and you are doing your company a disservice at that point.

#

He literally carries projects on his shoulders and they didnt hire him due to an advanced theoretical algorithm problem which he could have researched and learned immediately thereafter.

drifting stratus
#

Ooh

#

that's cool

#

At some point, shouldn't experience take place of tests as well?

#

Like if I have worked in a AAA studio for 7 years, and I decide to make a change. Why should I have to take some basic coding stuff again?

#

Shouldn't my 7 years of experience be enough proof that I'm not an idiot?

royal lintel
#

Theoretically yes.

craggy nacelle
#

It should but you have to detect liars and people who somehow managed to coast without learning anything

royal lintel
#

^
But interviews for a more experienced position will be different in general.

craggy nacelle
#

I've heard stories :P

#

Yeah, I've pretty much never been asked any basic coding questions after my first positions

#

But then again I also had an extensive programming related blog that I had been writing for years which probably showcased my ability pretty well

royal lintel
#

If your resume is good enough and you have the references to prove it I don't think it'd be an issue, too.

#

at that point any company that knows anything about interviewing should mostly be looking for team fit

drifting stratus
#

I mean, Riot games is really bad at hiring. They have a bug in their game which has existed for years.

royal lintel
#

what does that have to do with their hiring

drifting stratus
#

well they have a pretty easy to fix bug, and no one has been smart enough to fix it

#

:d

royal lintel
#

that's... not related to hiring

#

not even remotely

drifting stratus
#

well i mean why havent they hired someone yet

#

who can fix it

craggy nacelle
#

We probably have bugs in our software at work that have existed for years as well

royal lintel
#

because that's not how bugs get fixed

craggy nacelle
#

It's not a question of hiring someone or having someone smart enough... it's a priority question

royal lintel
#

bugs are triaged by importance and they've simply deemed to not important enough or too expensive to fix

drifting stratus
#

bro the bug has existed for at least 7 years now and it's gamebreaking

#

wanna know what it is?

craggy nacelle
#

it can't be gamebreaking if it has existed for 7 years and the game is still around :P

#

but I'm curious what it is yes

royal lintel
#

if I could just hire someone to fix all our bugs man that'd be awesome

#

wish it was that simple

drifting stratus
#

Essentially, there is no check on the in-game shop/store. You can write a hack to buy or sell items from anywhere on the map and buy/sell items even when you're not in the fountain.

#

There's many people who have done this, I just saw a video the other day

#

They don't even do a distance check

royal lintel
#

ok... still not related to their hiring practices

craggy nacelle
#

It doesn't sound gamebreaking if it requires hacks to make use of it tbh

royal lintel
#

maybe it's a fix they should prioritize, but how many other things won't get done if they do prioritize it?

craggy nacelle
#

also sounds like something that would be trivial for anticheats to detect...

drifting stratus
#

Well yeah it is easy to detect, and it is detected. But the question is, why haven't they fixed the real problem? Which is making a distance check to see if the player is near the shop.

royal lintel
#

maybe it's a fix they should prioritize, but how many other things won't get done if they do prioritize it?

drifting stratus
#

Essentially, this hack would allow someone to never have to go back home to base, they could buy potions and stay in lane forever.

royal lintel
#

and you don't know how hard it'd be to fix

#

if it were that simple, they probably would have already fixed it

craggy nacelle
#

Why would they need to fix it if their anticheat detects it... it's like an idiot canary basically lol

royal lintel
#

tbf relying on anticheat isn't usually the best practice but it's probably been deemed "good enough" for something that isn't trivial to fix

drifting stratus
#

Well their anti cheat only detects certain stuff, it detects injection methods but not reflection methods.

#

Their anti cheat is good though, but it's not perfect.

#

Also, they encrypt their main dll file

#

Stub.dll, if you try to open it up in visual studio it just has one method called "packman"

#

Which is their internal encryptor lol

steel creek
#

and this has to do with career chat because ?

lost wren
#

Question: are you increasing your rate from project to project working with the same client?

green oyster
#

I would try to renegotiate after a year

lost wren
#

I am trying to understand, why the clients each time are picking up new artists/vendors even if you've supplied super service, been super nice and client seems happy, both from quality and charge

#

so thought this is like a step ahead to avoid those price increasing and start with a new, cheaper one

craggy nacelle
#

They clearly weren't happy with the results if they drop you for someone else for no reason

#

Even if you increase your rates, it's usually a no brainer for most businesses if it means reliable and predictable results

rapid kindle
#

Im curious but is being able to code in c++ better than having experience in these design engines?

#

like unreal and blender?

#

on a resume

digital gate
#

that wholesale depends on your role, but in a vague sense yes. Even artists can benefit from understanding programing

flat gazelle
#

I'm tired but the comment reads like madlibs

#

What is a design engine?

#

What does it have to do with c++?

digital gate
#

it'll probably only ever be a selling point for dedicated programmers

flat gazelle
#

How does blender and Unreal relate to it?

digital gate
#

I assumed it meant designer heavy engine? low engineering skill required.

#

UE doesn't fit that IMO but I guess blueprint takes it almost all the way there

royal lintel
#

I assume they're asking about engines with a heavyweight editor... "design" is the wrong term, and blender isn't even an engine (at least, not by itself anymore).

#

Or maybe they're asking about scripting languages...

rapid kindle
#

like animators would use unreal

#

or source

#

or blender

#

material designers could also use those

#

said engines though are all built from the groundup by the code

#

ive seen mostly java and c++.

flat gazelle
#

Yeah, that's not a thing in gamedev

#

I'm guessing you are coming from product design or some sort of viz?

#

Unreal and Source are Game Engines. Blender is a DCC and java/C++ are programming languages.

#

Material designers would work mainly within a DCC like substance and a game engine for implementation.

#

Most of them would probably frown on being called designers though.

rapid kindle
#

fair enough

#

im not knowLedgeable enough to consider what type of program each is xD

#

i just mess around in the programs and read the code and see just how much pain each // or # the comments show

#

especially source filmmaker

#

and tf2

lilac walrus
#

pretty much any large codebase is full of comments like that, particularly where different third party products are integrated together and incongruousness collides

rapid kindle
#

oh yeah no doubt

#

but its actually hilarious how a game and engine from 2007 still had teh same comments

#

just breaks down to "it just works"

craggy nacelle
#

Majority of comments explaining something is bad never get fixed

#

Unless the whole program gets scrapped and rewritten :P

rapid kindle
#

laughs at tf2 source code leak

lilac walrus
#

most sensible teams invest their time in fixing functional issues rather than not-clean code

#

only so much budget available for development after all

shadow kelp
#

Sometimes you just have to write bad code. Comments like that are just acknowledging that you know it's bad and explaining why, to head off people telling you about it 😛

digital gate
#

I've come across my own comments like that and went from "this is dumb" to "this is an unfortunate hack but still not quite worth the time to fix it" after a bit of reading comments & code in related areas (most by me)

drifting stratus
#

Anyone else f ind these coding puzzles (algorithms) or "interview questions" to be extremely uninteresting and boring?

hybrid phoenix
#

Didn't we have that exact conversation a day and a half ago? 👀

fickle hatch
drifting stratus
#

I know big-o!

#

🙂

#

holy cow tho i just wanted to mention.

#

I've been doing a bunch of algos. I did 3 on the weekend, and tried to do one today. I wasn't able to do it, so looked at the solution. I still don't know why it works.

#

Am I just a retard? lol

fickle hatch
#

Oof

drifting stratus
#

😦

#

feelsdumbbro

plucky hatch
#

Me back to preaching and reminiscing... As I mentioned before 100% of candidates I interviewed failed that simple question.
About 30 years ago in high school I ran into a book that was popularizing simple math. And also some logic. And in the logic part it mentioned syllogism, also later logical operators.

About syllogism, this book came with five or six examples of random syllogism, with half of them valid and the other half invalid. What blew my mind at that time was that ALL of them appear to be valid to me. And I mean, I was shocked when I realized I don't have the information to correctly identify which is which. Because I was a cocky teenager, of course I was walking down the street looking down on people thinking that I'm the smartest cookie on the block. But those simple syllogisms punch me in the face big time, so I started learning more about it.

I can tell you now, almost 30 years later, it was worth it, to me. Knowing basic principles of correct reasoning (aka basic logic) increases the efficiency of a thought process absolutely exponentially. Of course I'm still of average intelligence, but I'm glad I have access to this efficient tool when solving problems, or whatever

#

Any of us, on the technical side, that disregard integrating basic logic into our thought process, it's like an accountant that says: "I know I'm smart, I can do complex calculations, it doesn't matter I don't know the multiplication table, it's not important, I'm smart, that's enough". Is it enough though? Even after all this time, I'm still saddened by the 100% of the time people don't know, nor use in the daily life, such an amazing useful tool which basic principles of correct reasoning is.

I once met a guy that was running circles around me when discussing Kant. And it was so weird to me that the same person didn't know nor use properly counterfactual conditionals or fuzzy logic. And he was obviously very smart and very well-educated, and I keep wondering where would smart people like that be, if what they already were would be increased exponentially just by using basic principles of correct reasoning.

Anyways, enough about that... But maybe if you get to read this ranting, perhaps you give syllogism a try ... 😄 and remember basic logic is not to be used as a parlor trick, is to increase the efficiency of your daily reasoning.

lilac walrus
#

That's a 'Yikes' from me.

"I once met a guy that was running circles around me when discussing Kant. And it was so weird to me that the same person didn't know nor use properly counterfactual conditionals or fuzzy logic. And he was obviously very smart and very well-educated, and I keep wondering where would smart people like that be, if what they already were would be increased exponentially just by using basic principles of correct reasoning."

From your story (which for the record, is a pretty good argument against what you're apparently advocating), it sounds like they ran circles around you precisely because they had already established and understood their argument; they were simply better educated and were likely already applying "basic principles of correct reasoning".

Reliance on formal logic is a crutch, and not all technical problems can be solved logically, especially when we're talking about creative media where you need solutions to problems that in themselves may be entirely subjective.

drifting stratus
#

Is it just me or is it strange that these 3rd party linkedin recruiters demand you to send your resume before they are even willing to tell you the name of the company they have a "position" for?

#

That seems like data gathering, but manually instead of a script scraping a website

lilac walrus
#

It's normal. They don't tell you who it is to prevent you from applying directly

craggy nacelle
#

Asking for a resume on linkedin is kinda weird given that your profile is basically a resume 🤔

lilac walrus
#

tell that to job portals that ask you to upload a resume, then proceed to give you a 100 question form that asks for all the information that could possibly have been contained on a resume 😄

drifting stratus
#

That just makes me not want to work with them

lilac walrus
#

if they told you upfront who it is before you've agreed to anything you could just cut them out entirely

#

....which is pretty bad for business

drifting stratus
#

I mean what if it’s a company I have no interest in tho

#

Lol

#

Don’t I deserve to know

lilac walrus
#

then you tell them you're not interested, after you've agreed to work with the recruiter and they tell you which company it is

drifting stratus
#

Don’t they just collect resumes

lilac walrus
#

no

hybrid phoenix
#

Good recruiters will reach out to you because they have a job that might be of interest to you

drifting stratus
#

Yea

fickle hatch
#

Third party intermediates aren't interested in your personal job success :<

drifting stratus
#

True

#

What do you do for work @fickle hatch

fickle hatch
#

Right now I run a small company and we're making engineering simulators / digital twins

#

My previous job was doing control systems and general aircraft systems for a military UAV

drifting stratus
#

Nice, that’s what I do for my job rn, simulations in unity

fickle hatch
#

I do anything that is needed for work, though mostly complex systems stuff

drifting stratus
#

Like what

fickle hatch
# drifting stratus Like what

Setting up high level tasks for everyone, sorting out dependencies between high level tasks, figuring out what parts constitute the whole thing across several different fields

#

E.g. combining the engineering requirements for the project with technical requirements and workflows for art assets. In the current project, a lot of art assets have to have a certain degree of engineering precision to fit well with the rest of the simulated world etc. Gotta figure out what parts of that matter and which ones don't

#

For that, gotta follow all the logical chains from the engineering of the system itself to the simulation framework, to the art assets. That kinda complex systems stuff

#

For the UAV work I did, I would bridge between the guys writing the image processing software and the guys who did the mechanical parts of the aircraft (and myself doing the control systems, ground systems)

#

30% of my work on the simulation stuff is explaining how engineering or other things work to other team members, so they can understand what is important and what they can skip over in whatever work they are doing 😄

drifting stratus
#

Sounds like fun

fickle hatch
#

At one point I had to explain why reaching with your fingers to a spinning propeller is a bad idea to the programmers

#

That despite its small size, it cuts your fingers off at that RPM

hybrid phoenix
#

Lol

fickle hatch
#

They thought you'd just get a bruise or something

plucky hatch
#

i gotm 240k$ from making that game

#

sheesh

flat gazelle
#

I think you need an i7 for the best career possible.

#

How is it in any way shape or form relevant to the channel?

craggy nacelle
#

#lounge or #ue4-general is probably better - if you look at the channel's name and topic, this is for career related discussion

grand pulsar
#

sorry about that

neon nest
#

I just got invited for google foobar

unknown.png
barren shadow
#

GL with that @neon nest

#

the first few challenges were ok, it was the 4th and 5th i struggled with, they do give a decent amount of time, but i did it purely for fun, did not really want the chance to join Google, not interested

last coyote
#

Apologies if this is the wrong channel. But I am an IT tech who is trying to get into the game industry. I have currently worked a bit on a portfolio website but I was hoping to get some feedback on it if possible? I don't seem to get any feedback when I've asked elsewhere or with any of the previous job apps I have put out. Would that be something I could get assistance with here?

lilac walrus
#

you can definitely ask here, yes

#

I don't know how good the feedback will be, but you can ask

last coyote
#

Any feedback at this time is better than none haha. It does have personal info obviously as it is a portfolio; is that technically against the server rules? (I don't think it does?)

pastel estuary
#

portfolio-wise, watch the "killer portfolio or portfolio killer" gdc videos.

last coyote
#

my portfolio can be viewed here ||http://www.shambley.info|| I would love critiques or feedback here as I am very green as a dev and I would love to break into the industry with a studio! Spoilers tags just in case. Attempting to go for a 90s theme on the website, will more than likely be adding more to that later, this is just the framework so far.

craggy nacelle
#

I like the 90s theme, it feels very authentic especially with the cursors, but that might split opinions lol

last coyote
craggy nacelle
#

heh, yeah as long as you don't go so overboard it makes the page annoying to navigate or read

last coyote
somber brook
#

Hey, does anyone have any advice or typical interview questions for a technical designer interview (blueprints focused)? Preparing for mine tomm and would love to make sure I've got as much covered as possible

urban stump
last coyote
urban stump
#

You don't want a recruiter to close your page at first glance if you're applying for a job with it.

#

Make their job as painless as possible.

digital gate
#

I opened and then closed it as well, so no love from the programmer crowd either

pastel estuary
#

(they also mention this on the videos i suggested, in other words: artstation > any portfolio unless you wow em beyond recognition in the first second)

last coyote
#

No worries, I understand that. I have gotten zero feedback before today so I appreciate the honesty there!

pastel estuary
#

@glass garden hardware talk goes in #lounge

sharp egret
#

Hi guys! I'm about to start looking for programmer internships in UE4 as a game-dev undergrad. I feel like my knowledge is fairly scattered, both with UE4 and C++ in general.

Personally speaking, I consider myself somewhat mediocre with programming as of now, I have some confidence developing simple gameplay concepts with UE4 C++, but I'm not a pro by any means.

What topics would you guys expect a junior position programmer to know? What should I brush up on before applying? Thanks for the long read and your time! 🙂

#

Forgot to mention : I'm applying within India / remote, if that matters.

drifting stratus
# 

“We’re only looking to hire senior developers right now.”

“We need to hire more senior talent to balance things out before we hire more junior developers.”

“Our code base/business logic is too complex for junior devs, we only hire at the senior level.”

But there’s a problem with this. Is it not immediately clear to you? Basically, replace the phrase “senior engineer” with “white men” in any conversation about hiring senior engineers you’ll see what I mean:

    “We need to hire more white men to balance things out before we hire more women and minorities.”```
#

Wanted to see what people thought about this

flat gazelle
#

I mean, unless they need senior engineers.

#

Hiring a group of Juniors before a senior team is in place can cause heaps of trouble.

#

Seniors aren't magically better, but they have likely been through a few game cycles and can spot bad ideas sooner.

fading hatch
#

maybe they just say it, because they don't want to hire the person that asked for the job 😄

drifting stratus
fading hatch
#

You could also replace "senior engineer" (which isn't even found in the examples) with something like "prostitute" to create funny sentences like "We need to hire more prostitutes to balance things out before we can hire more junior developers" 😄

flat gazelle
#

Dan, out of curiousity how many seniors and juniors have you hired and trained?

drifting stratus
#

I don't think that matters though.

flat gazelle
#

Ok

drifting stratus
#

I worked underneath someone who is a Principle Software Engineer at a micro chip company out in Arizona for about 4 years, and in all honesty he even said that I will probably be Senior in the future.

#

I don't think there is really that much of a difference, just time.

flat gazelle
#

Right, so you are a senior in games now?

drifting stratus
#

No, I don't work in games because people like you gatekeep

flat gazelle
#

Cool. Good to know it's my fault.

fading hatch
#

I just feel weird about the fact that this is somehow compared to a whole other thing with the sexism-implication.... like it has nothing to do with the problem at all.

drifting stratus
#

People like you are literally bad people

#

No offense man

#

Gate keeping is wrong

fickle hatch
#

@drifting stratus can you summarize your point in some different words, not sure what you mean

flat gazelle
#

That is ok Dan. I don't care what you think. I was just curious. That's all 🙂

drifting stratus
#

@flat gazelle just stop being a bad person and hire junior devs

#

pussy

fickle hatch
#

Are seniors bad? The junior-senior division is company specific and is only one of many small tools to organize the working process

flat gazelle
#

I do

drifting stratus
#

I'm in a bad mood

#

I'm sorry

flat gazelle
#

When I need juniors.

drifting stratus
#

And honestly I apologize for being a dick

spice dagger
#

@drifting stratus Take it easy thanks.

sharp egret
#

Yeah tbh I usually don't begrudge companies / PM's wanting less/more junior/senior people. They hire as they need, for the most part.

fading hatch
#

well, would you hire Gandalf or Harry Potter to safe the world?

fickle hatch
#

I run a small company and we don't have a senior-junior division, at low head count it doesn't give enough benefit and just has a small overhead

#

Just hire whoever fits the position

sharp egret
#

Just that nowadays they're a bit hard to come by. Atleast here, we have more / well paying junior designer positions than programmer ones, they're a bit rare due to the pandemic and what not.

flat gazelle
#

We don't have a division either. We also don't have leads.

sharp egret
#

I'm considering applying for design positions as well just so I don't miss out on internship period.

#

I'm already a month late.

pure flame
#

My company started like that then moved to senior and leads. I much prefer when no one had titles like that.

drifting stratus
#

I think the only companies that actually are able to provide junior positions are essentially the big boys like EA / Activision

fickle hatch
#

Once you get over 20-200 people, you might wanna start setting up a better organization and setting up the developer pipeline with juniors and seniors and whatnot. But the key message here - this is something that you do for an organization when you need it, it's an arbitrary choice made for organizational reasons

flat gazelle
#

Which is where I hired Juniors

sharp egret
#

There are small start-ups here, some are decent some are terrible.

#

India has a gambling games conflation with real games problem. A lot of money goes into the former and real devs are left in the cold.

fickle hatch
#

The junior position exists either because there exists a mentoring workflow in the company, or because the people organizing it want to seem cool and want to pretend like they have a mentoring workflow

flat gazelle
#

You don't want to have just juniors on your team if it's a large project and cert season comes around

fickle hatch
#

In first case, if you get hired as a junior then congrats, you get to learn stuff and get paid for it. In second case, well, lol, act based on the subjective information you get from the person running the show and do your best

drifting stratus
#

Idk man I think if you were in the same spot as me you would be really angry

#

When you go on a website

#

and only see "senior"

#

on like every site u go on

#

its the same thing

fickle hatch
#

@drifting stratus having a mentoring workflow requires work and someone must be dedicated to it at the company to keep everything working

#

Without a known mentoring workflow, just ignore whatever they say, apply to the position and let the HR sort it out :V

drifting stratus
#

im on an activision zoom meeting right now lol

fickle hatch
#

Nice, I'm eating a really good muffin right now

sharp egret
#

Could have blurred their face before sharing. 😛 That's a random ass person on a frame here they don't even know about rofl.

drifting stratus
#

It's public

#

It's public for everyone to join

sharp egret
#

Haha alright, doesn't hurt to be careful just in case. :))

drifting stratus
#

@fickle hatch this zoom meeting is basically an overfview of the company lol

#

I swear like, the big game studios are massive in comparison lol

#

to everyone else

#

its weird