I personally haven't seen one ask for a shipped title, the most I've seen them ask for is finished projects, but from my experience what they consider an indie finished project, is literally a fully finished game jam quality project
#career-chat
winged axle
buoyant latch
Yea no that’s def true. Depends on the team and project
Smaller team it’s much more important
Out of curiosity, what are people’s disciplines? Env art here
flat gazelle
It depends on what support structure is in place. If you have a great senior or lead that's good at coaching, then you can grab an inexperienced junior. If you only have a grumpy old principal that might not be the case.
VFX
winged axle
I specialise in ai but I guess I'm a generalist. Ideally I want to specialize in being a pipeline tech, but can't do that kind of stuff without a team since I can't make workflow workarounds to fit a project when everything I do is to my own workflow anyway
buoyant latch
Yea that’s def true. Most of the time we’ve looked at juniors to coach up in low pressure situations too. If something is close to ship then that may not be the case
hybrid phoenix
Tech artist
buoyant latch
I feel like vfx teams are usually smaller and have more need to be independent
That was my guess goosey haha
hybrid phoenix
I want to specialize in being a pipeline tech, but can't do that kind of stuff without a team since I can't make workflow workarounds to fit a project when everything I do is to my own workflow anyway
You totally can. Build stuff to make your life easier. Automate everything.
How'd you guess, deadfox? What gave it away? 😛
winged axle
I already do
wary idol
Programmer (tools, gameplay, etc)
winged axle
XD
flat gazelle
VFX teamsize varies. I've been on teams from 1 - 12, and I freelanced ona 20+ one for a while.
buoyant latch
I’m a big fan of tech artists and tool makers. I’m more focused on lookdev so I’m at the early parts of the pipeline for art
That sounds wild @flat gazelle
hybrid phoenix
I'm definitely closer to the lookdev side of things than the pipeline-dev side of things myself
But then also more towards the rendering-dev side than lookdev at this point
buoyant latch
Funnest place to be haha
hybrid phoenix
Started as purely lookdev, gradually became more render-dev by necessity
wary idol
it's a nice feeling to have the tools you build be used in production
buoyant latch
What do you mean by render dev?
hybrid phoenix
It's a good feeling to have things come work and come together, in general
By render-dev I mean the more technical side of the rendering pipeline
wary idol
yeah^
buoyant latch
Ahhh I see
hybrid phoenix
Optimization sort of stuff
And stupidly technical stuff that the artists won't ever want to touch with a ten-foot pole
buoyant latch
Yea I know the type haha
hybrid phoenix
So more towards the programming side
Definitely wouldn't want to actually be a programmer though
Don't have the skills for it
buoyant latch
I lean ever so slightly that way. Def more engine side that asset creation
winged axle
I'm more tool creation I think, like setting up modular systems, auto tools, procedural methods and such.
But I do ai because I just like messing around and seeing what all I can make it do tbh
buoyant latch
Ai is fun from the little I’ve piddled
hybrid phoenix
I made a graph.
Not too sure about how far up to put my marker, but I'm somewhere in that left triangle 😛
buoyant latch
The fact that you made a graph speaks for itself
winged axle
Lol I was thinking the same xD
tidal moth
I see no space for design on that graph 😢
hybrid phoenix
How does design fit into tech art? 👀
winged axle
XD
tidal moth
oops
upbeat moon
charred portal
Hi guys, i am new to unreal engine and I want to work later in this industry.
Currently I am prigramming in c++ and wanted to ask which skills you need to get an internship in a company
winged axle
Most companies will have their application requirements public. If you do not have a college degree then they will look almost entirely at your portfolio which means you will need projects and showcases on that. There are many in the industry and if your portfolio projects are relatively bland or basic they will not stand out. I cannot provide full details or examples of good projects, you decide what you specialize in and learn all the skills you need in that specialization. I will say that for good comparison on about the quality of what I feel most places consider good project examples in a portfolio, would be to look up projects from game jams, most of those are public info
@charred portal
If your portfolio consists of tutorial projects of arcade based games that are easily found on YouTube, most likely every other person in your position in the industry will also have those on their portfolio, so set yourself apart
charred portal
@winged axle
Thank you for your answer!
My only problem now is to make a roadmap for me with what i should begin learning
charred portal
When in doubt, you can try the udemy course. It's pretty good
@winged axle
Which udemy course?
winged axle
@charred portal https://www.udemy.com/course/unrealcourse/
lyric swallow
I'm currently working at a company where we are porting complete games to different platforms
I was wondering what should I call my current position for linked in
Software Developer? Game Programmer? Game Developer?
I don't really develop games so I'm wondering
What do you guys think?
hybrid phoenix
That depends what you're actually doing on a daily basis
Definitely not "Game Developer" because that's generic as heck
scenic moon
Pipeline Technician - Software Porting? (don't put that without others approval, not sure that's a real title)
Compatibility tech?
hot kite
How does one learn and starts to work as QA? I'd love to learn and work for free to gain the xp but I have no idea where to start :(
tidal moth
well ideally for an intern QA position you will want at least 3+ years of QA experience
hot kite
Lol the world feels like that
tidal moth
QA for the most part is about getting lucky to get in I reckon. if you live nearby, if you show initiative, if you've done a little bit of game dev previously might work in your favor
but in the end it might still boil down to them selecting your application out of the pile
hot kite
Dang
tidal moth
but I didn't get in through QA, so what I know is just what I saw a few studios doing
winged axle
@lyric swallow Porting Technician
flat gazelle
If you can only work in one package, you are much less attractive so it's an easy way to sort out lesser candidates. The studio might be using only photoshop. Limited licenses for substance. There might an artstyle that substance would struggle with etc.
Not everything can be procedural.
green oyster
You def need it for all sorts of stuff
mystic kestrel
I watched Ted (the movie) with Mark Wahlber and Mila Kunis... Quote i value most "Everybody needs a best friend" - OST
Put that ring on my fuzzy fingah you M****F*****
lol
😉
i ❤️ NYC
i wub u guys
quartz light
What is the best way to practice right now or what should I work on if my goal is to become a level designer?
fierce comet
lilac walrus
level designers almost never make assets
that's for artists, level designers make levels
so pick up games with a modding SDK, and make levels
usually best to get a mix of multiplayer and singleplayer experience, but I would start with multiplayer since it tends to be a lot less technical
tidal moth
yeah just block out stuff that is fun to play. a good way to practice is to make blockouts that are fun even if nothing else is present in the game.
dabble in some game design as well to get the ball rolling
that's it really
cosmic fractal
hey guys and gals. I am having a super hard time trying to follow devsquad's UE4 tutorials cuz 1, its an older version, two, he goes way to fkn fast, and three, he messes up himself alot so i really am not learning crap from him. could someone suggest a video tutorial series that takes its time and describes things in depth for UE4? links would be much appreciated. youtube preferably
potent reef
you should take some free templates from the marketplace and make levels using that gameplay. that way you can practice with having certain constraints as well as having gameplay footage for a portfolio @quartz light
covert viper
I want to become game programmer. What would be the best way right now or what should i work on for same.
lilac walrus
program games, basically
make things for practice, learn, improve, maker better things
tidal moth
maybe start by designing a game and then jump into programming what you design
lilac walrus
usually better to try to reproduce existing things, or work on smaller, more precise features
most programmers are required to implement an existing design, after all, they're not generally given remit to design anything
granite brook
No, it's not. @plucky hatch Please read the #old-rules.
tidal moth
usually better to try to reproduce existing things, or work on smaller, more precise features
@lilac walrus sure if you get a feature spec. but who's going to give you that?
lilac walrus
if you're reproducing something, you don't need a feature spec, you have the feature in front of you. If you're working on smaller, more precise features (e.g. pathfinding algorithms etc) the goals are usually 'the feature spec', since the designer will almost never go into the technical details.
tidal moth
I think that depends
but algorithm development isn't game development
game development is the feature spec IMO
I'd say a good starting point as well is something like UE4 and then looking into maybe creating a shooter template from there
especially if you have 0 programming experience
unreal's cpp kind of lets you do a lot of things with training wheels on
well, training wheels for cpp
hushed turret
Any VFX artists out there who can help us out doing an arrow trail VFX? 🙂
smoky stag
there is some indie developers? Want to join at some projects
lilac walrus
#looking-for-talent , #looking-for-work - come on guys, use the correct channels
tame belfry
lilac walrus
read the pinned post
hybrid phoenix
Also spamming such questions in half the channels this server has isn't really good practice
You'd also know how to use the bot if you'd read #more-resources at all
Considering the second heading is this
tidal moth
if you're serious about creating a contract like that I'd get a solicitor to take a look at it, not ask for community guidance
urban stump
If something is worth signing an NDA over, it's worth getting it done professionally.
lilac walrus
pretty much - an NDA is only worth as much as you're willing to spend on it
and that includes enforcement
formal knoll
Sup, just wanted to share with my experience with UE4: finally got moved to a team on my place, which is working with UE4, instead of Unity, and my workflow changed from "writing extensions for Unity" to actually developing a game. It's just funny how Unity advertise itself a fully fledged game engine, when it doesn't have simple features.
steel creek
cool story. That and a box of anecdotal doughnuts will get you a fake sugar high.
tardy dune
Do we have a dev here who has sold a finished game retail? I have a question about tax when it comes to digital products.
Are you liable to pay tax for games sold online? And what if you set up a company based in a different country and sell through that, are you liable only to pay tax there then?
lilac walrus
not sure what this has to do with careers, but these are the kinds of things you should be talking to a solicitor about
hybrid phoenix
These are not questions anyone here can reasonably answer. This varies wildly from country to country, and even then it varies by company type and other income sources and many other things
set up a company based in a different country
And this is even more complicated because you now depend on taxation laws in two countries instead of just one
green oyster
@tardy dune at least here, if you're doing steam, you need to get on a call with IRS and get a FIN, otherwise you'll get extra taxed without it, I think it depends on the trade agreements of your country with US
better to just find a lawyer or accountant
tardy dune
Thank you for the answers ❤️
novel grotto
I want to learn C++ for Unreal Engine 4, should I first learn C++ seperately or would it be good to just start and learn the language in UE4
I've used JavaScript to make a simple app before so I know some extreme basics but that's it
lilac walrus
I would learn the basics first, it's a bit more involved than other C style languages
once you've got the jist of memory management, polymorphism, etc, and are comfortable writing somewhat more complex console applications, transitioning to UE4 will be very easy
novel grotto
i see, thanks!
novel grotto
actually if anyone has a good C++ cours that would be nice too
im doing the free one on codeacademy but suggestions would be good
wary idol
@novel grotto this is the one I always recommend, it's one of the best ones you'll find
This is for C++ (not with UE4) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18c3MTX0PK0&list=PLlrATfBNZ98dudnM48yfGUldqGD0S4FFb
novel grotto
@wary idol ooh this does look quite nice
thanks for the suggestion!
formal knoll
I'd advise against learning C++ for UE4: you should get familiar with visual scripting first. Make some prototypes, etc. It's easier to transition to C++, after you know how blueprints works.
lilac walrus
it's only an easy transition if you intend to make exclusively gameplay-layer stuff
(and you'll still have to learn the language once you transition away from blueprint)
formal knoll
I mean, UE4 even has a good course for transitioning: https://learn.unrealengine.com/course/3441566
(I don't think most of the people here are want to do a custom render engine, or adding stuff to UE4)
lilac walrus
I dunno, I rub up against the walls of what UE4 offers all the time
literally an hour or so ago, I found myself needing to implement new math functions
in this case I need a recursive algorithm which would be best implemented in neat C++
obsidian fossil
Hi, I am new to UE4 and was just wondering what people recommend in terms of C++ and blueprints. Firstly I am a programmer with about 1.5 years of C# programming experience in unity however I have heard there is alot to learn in UE4 and C++ can be quite hard, so should I start with blueprints or does it not really matter that much. Also in terms of games, do people make games with majority blueprints, majority C++ or a bit of both?
tidal moth
I dunno, I rub up against the walls of what UE4 offers all the time
@lilac walrus I'm inclined to agree here. I'm constantly in a situation where I'll need one function or another that isn't exposed or available in blueprint to be exposed, or at least to a level of shortcut functionality
Hi, I am new to UE4 and was just wondering what people recommend in terms of C++ and blueprints. Firstly I am a programmer with about 1.5 years of C# programming experience in unity however I have heard there is alot to learn in UE4 and C++ can be quite hard, so should I start with blueprints or does it not really matter that much. Also in terms of games, do people make games with majority blueprints, majority C++ or a bit of both?
@obsidian fossil start with blueprints. a lot of stuff will be familiar. once you've kind of settled into the system you can see for yourself what BPs are lacking and slowly enter the murky waters of CPP
though keep in mind that the cpp that UE offers is not your standard cpp so you may have to work around that a little
hybrid phoenix
Alternatively, just dive right into C++
If you start with BPs you may end up never wanting to get into C++ because it's a pain
Which is detrimental, because C++ is notably more powerful for many tasks
obsidian fossil
okay thank you both @tidal moth @hybrid phoenix
tidal moth
idk I do both and I like cpp's way of doing elegant solutions where you cannot do the same in BP always
like right now I am in the process of refactoring BP code for a UI manager because the BP solution is terrible
hybrid phoenix
I do both now but it took me four years to start using C++ because BP sort of did what I needed and C++ was scary
obsidian fossil
yeah I was thinking of doing what you have mentioned, start with bp and then transition to C++ sooner rather than laater
tidal moth
yeah I definitely agree with that
the sooner you're familiar the better
but not being aware of what BP offers or how BPs work first and jumping into cpp I think is a fallacy
hybrid phoenix
I think you can say the exact same thing the other way around
tidal moth
especially if you're considering this as a profession
I disagree
if you're going to be using UE4 professionally
then you'll be working in a team
you'll have to develop things for other people as a programmer
hence why having the knowledge of BP is relevant, even if all you do is CPP
whereas if someone just does BP no knowledge of CPP is relevant
which mirrors the way that the BP interface is implemented
hybrid phoenix
I don't think if you have any intention of being a professional programmer in UE4 you can get away with only doing blueprint
You should definitely do both
hybrid phoenix
I wish I'd just gotten into C++ off the bat. Would've improved my understanding of low-level programming a lot faster
tidal moth
working knowledge of a system that you're going to be outputting functionality into is paramount
low level programming isn't super relevant until you know what you're doing. the mantra goes: make it work, make it neat, make it fast - in that order
low level programming really only applies to the last part
obsidian fossil
Okay sounds good thanks for suggestions guys! I will get familiar with the Unreal Engine Interface and use blueprints to create basic functionality for small mini project and then I will begin learning C++ and get into the proper stuff
tidal moth
where's that allar youtube link
@obsidian fossil
actually, wrong tag
@hybrid phoenix
hybrid phoenix
Oh I'm not saying that one shouldn't use C++
But if someone's asking how to get into programming in the engine, then I'd personally recommend C++ because it's the more powerful option
The learning curve might be a bit steeper, but quite frankly you're gonna be hitting brick walls every three seconds when you get started anyway, so you may as well get right into the deep end
tidal moth
again I disagree
hybrid phoenix
And learning BPs after C++ is gonna be a hell of a lot easier than learning C++ after BPs, just by virtue of C++ being more complex
You're allowed to disagree, but you're not saying "pick whatever you want" either
hybrid phoenix
So throwing a link saying "use what you want" in my face isn't really useful at all 😛
tidal moth
the product doesn't care whether you used one or the other
hybrid phoenix
You're not saying "use what you want", you're saying "start with blueprints", which I disagree with
You're acting like I'm saying BPs are unusable and have no place
But that's not what I'm saying, I'm saying if you want to get into UE4 programming, I'd recommend starting with C++ because it's more powerful and forces you to be more efficient
tidal moth
no I am saying that not knowing how blueprints work in an engine where 80% of peopl will be working in blueprints at any given time is detrimental
if you're doing solo projects as a hobbyist then sure
hybrid phoenix
Right, but at that point it's just a matter of context
tidal moth
but if you have aspirations of working in a team, then knowing how adjacent systems work for people with no experience in programming is paramount
hybrid phoenix
Is he asking "I want to work on side projects with a bunch of people", or is he asking "I want to actually be a professional programmer", then I'll suggest C++ any day
Because you'll be able to pick up the BP side of things easily enough
tidal moth
if you're aiming to be a professional
then not working with blueprints is going to be a detriment
I don't think that can be any clearer
hybrid phoenix
If you're familiar with general programming and UE4 API, you're gonna be able to play with them for two weeks and be very far along
You never will though
My way of using BPs is pretty damn different from how other people use them
tidal moth
my point is understanding the system you're outputting into first will give you working knowledge of how to deliver the functionality and tools that you will have to do
the opposite isn't true
hybrid phoenix
Aaanyway at this point we're just going in circles
tidal moth
having low level knowledge isn't going to help you deliver those tools
it's going to help you optimize those tools later on
but that's not what is relevant at first
low level programming isn't super relevant until you know what you're doing. the mantra goes: make it work, make it neat, make it fast - in that order
hybrid phoenix
Depends what your job is. If your job is to make tools for people, sure. If your job is to do AI pathfinding, doesn't really matter much
And all I'm saying is that you can also do things in that order with C++
¯_(ツ)_/¯
hybrid phoenix
No, I think the learning process is gonna be more efficient if you start with C++
tidal moth
I disagree
hybrid phoenix
And that's fine
tidal moth
you're not focused on functionality
you're focused on learning the language and the pitfalls thereof
hybrid phoenix
I'm done, we're going in circles and not progressing at all
No point clogging up the channel 😬
pure flame
Speaking from my personal anecdotal experience: I learned C++ UE4 right off the bat, and BP is extremely easy to pick up afterward. In comparison, BP are much easier, but they still correlate to the code you are writing almost 1:1 so it’s very easy to write something in C++ and then know how to make it in BP. C++ is far more powerful and beneficial for things like multiplayer, plugins, and modularizing in general. If you learn C++ first, BP just fall into place. I strongly recommend the C++ UE4 course on udemy and the rest will be history for you.
buoyant latch
Not to.. drag up an old convo. But in my experience designers work with BPs primarily. A few have some knowledge of C++ and lean more technical but not many. Programmers are the ones who work in C++. I imagine every place is different tho and it’s probably a sliding scale.
It def is beneficial to know both, but where you start probably depends on what job you want imo
shut token
I find that it is easier to get up and going with BP (which is pretty important at the start) and then after making a small game (like really small), or toying around with BP long enough, then dive into C++. Then you'll have a frame of reference for both and see the strengths/pitfalls of each. (Yes, I'm talking in the context of a new developer here)
For me, so far, my workflow is to get something working in BP, play with it, make sure I like it, then convert it to C++. Sometimes I may do like 2 systems in BP, but I try to focus on one at a time. So I do BP -> test -> adjust -> C++. It works for me.
obsidian fossil
thanks everyone for the responses, really helped me !
rapid iron
Greetings Everyone
I need some advice. I aspire to become a creative director in the long run but as of now, I only consider my programming skills viable at present and that is what I have been applying for so far.
My biggest doubt is whether I would be able to transition to game design in the long run (a seed of doubt planted in my head by my mentor at college) and what would be an ideal way to go about this as I enter the industry.
flat gazelle
Creative directors are usually designers. Programmers tend to land in tech director roles
hybrid phoenix
Where'd a director-level tech-artist end up?
Never really thought about that, but I've always thought I'd like to be a creative director as well
But then at the same time not actually that familiar with what a CD does heh
ashen lynx
You end up as artistic technician of technical leads of art supremacy supreme.
hybrid phoenix
You think it'd reasonably be possible to pivot to something less technical along the way?
flat gazelle
Sure
hybrid phoenix
I feel like I wouldn't want to be a tech-art lead
flat gazelle
Art Director isn't a stretch
hybrid phoenix
Just seems like it'd have (what are to me) the downsides of tech-art but not the benefits 
So what's a creative director's actual responsibility? I've always sort of lumped CD and AD together
flat gazelle
They direct what experience the game is. Often they have an overarching role keeping the other directors aligned. They guide the team to what the player should feel, think and do. They are not responsible for how that gets done.
A CD will say, the player needs downtime after this intensity peak and we could use a more acrobatic set of moves to pull off the "I am space tarzan" experience.
Then the team has to translate that into tasks.
hybrid phoenix
And an Art Director is more concretely about... Well, directing all the core artistic choices?
I always wonder what such a workday looks like in such a role
It seems very abstract from where I'm at right now
flat gazelle
Indeed. They make sure the team knows what they are aiming for, so a lot of powerpoints and presentations. They review a lot of the work that gets done and guide the leads towards visual targets etc.
Basically, they sit in meetings 95% of the time.
That goes for all director roles.
hybrid phoenix
Honestly I somehow always quite like meetings, as long as they're actually productive
But I figure as director you're a very large part of making sure the meetings are productive
ashen lynx
Meeting experience on the top varies with production stage. Closer to deadlines, it has a chance of turning from comfy productive thing into a hellpit.
High chance actually.
hybrid phoenix
For now I'm still nice and optimistic, haven't been crushed by the weight of a thousand projects yet
rapid iron
Creative directors are usually designers. Programmers tend to land in tech director roles
@flat gazelle I have just finished college and plan to take Game Design as a masters course after a year or 2. So would that mean that I can still get into the design part?
lilac walrus
Creative directors are usually designers. Programmers tend to land in tech director roles
@flat gazelle I started as an engineer and ended up in a creative direction role, so it does happen 😄
but I transitioned through gameplay & engineering, into technical design / direction, then into system design etc
took a long time to move diagonally like that
flat gazelle
Yeah, I'm talking generally 😛
Exception that confirms the rule etc.
A recent CD I worked with came from audio
lilac walrus
that's even more unusual
flat gazelle
As for Directors keeping meetings productive, HA!
That's for production people, if at all.
Directors dream. That's part of their job.
rapid iron
So any advice for me @flat gazelle ?? I did my UG in Digital Media so not fully into technical either
flat gazelle
My advice is that you do what you enjoy. It will be a decade or two at least before you are looking at a CD role.
When you've shipped a few games, you might have a better idea and a new career path.
Don't lock yourself in before testing things.
tidal moth
@rapid iron you should consider transitioning into design sooner rather than later
but
take it from someone who's been on that road: you'll figure out what you like to do about halfway through and you may want to change your priorities based on that
rapid iron
Well I know that I want to have influence over what the game is about, how its played thats what got me interested into making games in the first place 😆 . I have just recently begun to understand the right terms paying more attention to E3 and dev diaries
tidal moth
keep in mind that as CD your influence is marginal
flat gazelle
Then go indie. Keep in mind they don't have a designated CD role.
tidal moth
you create a very abstract framework that others then fill in with stuff
flat gazelle
If you want to influence the game and decide what it's about on a game big enough to have a cd role, it will take many years.
tidal moth
you will not have the time or energy to contest every decision, even if you wanted to
and in the end honestly, it's not the right way to go about it either
rapid iron
you will not have the time or energy to contest every decision, even if you wanted to
@tidal moth To give an example what kind of input would Hugo be giving for Doom at ID?? I understand its too much to do everything I mean especially for games the scale of Cyberpunk 2077XD.
tidal moth
doom is a title that already has a strong brand behind it
rapid iron
If you want to influence the game and decide what it's about on a game big enough to have a cd role, it will take many years.
@flat gazelle a rough figure? just out of curiosity not much info on gaming in our country
tidal moth
likely it's very little direct influence, but like a politician he would have a point here and there that he'd care about
flat gazelle
15 - 20 years
rapid iron
15 - 20 years
@flat gazelle hmmm guess I should aim for financial stability before trying CD
tidal moth
perhaps try to get in first
rapid iron
That is the plan I just finished UG and have been applying since August
its just that I couldn't find much info about the finer details post entering the industry until I found this server
flat gazelle
What you are asking is a bit like: "How do I become CEO of a major company?"
hybrid phoenix
If you're at a point where you can become CD, you won't be worrying about financial stability
(Unless you're just really bad with money, but that's a separate matter)
flat gazelle
Spend a few years in the industry. Then decide if that's even what you want to do.
tidal moth
^
what I was trying to say before
you might find out that you actually prefer the technical stuff to the creative stuff
flat gazelle
Or working as a caretaker.
tidal moth
sure
flat gazelle
The industry is not for everyone.
tidal moth
true
rapid iron
Spend a few years in the industry. Then decide if that's even what you want to do.
@flat gazelle
My mentor warned me when I was applying to plan ahead. Just got curious if its possible to switch.
I understand the fact that it takes time. Just want to be aware of how things work
The industry is not for everyone.
@flat gazelle yep I agree
tidal moth
which country are you based in?
rapid iron
India
tidal moth
yeah it's going to be an uphill road
ashen lynx
Truth be told, that you can plan as much as you want, but the path you take and the job you do will shape things. So don't try to make far fetched plans. Things can change.
rapid iron
Truth be told, that you can plan as much as you want, but the path you take and the job you do will shape things. So don't try to make far fetched plans. Things can change.
@ashen lynx main concern for me was department. Rest I agree
flat gazelle
Follow the fun
rapid iron
yeah it's going to be an uphill road
@tidal moth domestic is still not that good yet. Intend to go abroad
Follow the fun
@flat gazelle Thanks a lot sir 👍
tidal moth
intent is one thing
possibility is entirely another
but the SEA or chinese industry might be a better market. and people always seem to be in need of programmers. but it's not going to be easy regardless I'd wager
hybrid phoenix
Plan a few years ahead, and keep your eyes on your goals, but don't get dead-set on them
Re-evaluate as you go along, see if your goals still align with your personal desires
If not, go do something else
rapid iron
thanks man that's what I meant to say
urban hawk
Hello there, I just wanted to ask your advice about sth.
I've gathered 4 people and told them my ideas about making a game I was thinking about for 3 months.
we are actually beginners and we are learning the basics of Unreal and we are enjoying Unreal actually
but the problem is, my idea is so hard to finish
Imagine an open-world game with whole new animations and a really good story.
We are just 15-16 and I think it's not a bad time to start but it should take us between 4-6 years to complete the project.
what's your advice on this journey or does it really worth spending such time?
lilac walrus
My advice is to make something smaller - much, much smaller. Only then will you begin to appreciate just how long it takes to build something of any substance
flat gazelle
If there's 4 of you and you are 16, there is a high likelihood that you will finish! You'll be in your 60s by then probably, but you are young so you have time!
lilac walrus
most of the bigger commercial open world games take hundreds of professionally experienced people working for 4-6 years to achieve
pick any game and watch the credits to see just how much manpower it took to realise that product
(and the credits don't usually include the many people working in outsourcing companies either)
urban hawk
Got your point, thanks for your time
flat gazelle
Let's remove half of the team if you skip marketing, publishing, office etc. Multiply this with something like 1.5 years to average out people who were on the project for varying lengths of time. That leaves us at about 3539 manyears of production time.
But they built from an already existing product so let's double that for you if you are starting from scratch. Rounded down we are now at 7000 years.
But you will of course not make a game that big and complex. Let's say you make one 100 times smaller than Far Cry. That'll only take 70 years.
But they are all experienced professionals so we can probably double this again. Landing at a cool 140 years.
Your team is 4 people meaning it'll take you 35 years of fulltime work to deliver a game that's 1% of Far Cry 5. My original estimate was off. You'll only be in your 50s, so you'll have plenty of time for a sequel 🙂
hybrid phoenix
Games are made with people and experience. You don't have a lot of people, and you don't have experience. The larger you plan for your game to be, the slimmer the odds it will ever make it out of production
Of course, you can go and do it anyway, but then don't do it to make a profit or to actually release a good game - just do it because you enjoy the process, and at some point you'll probably be good enough to figure out a better path to actually get to release 😬
That's pretty much my career path so far 😛
plucky hatch
we are not 4 normal peoples
tidal moth
what are you superheroes?
urban hawk
Let's remove half of the team if you skip marketing, publishing, office etc. Multiply this with something like 1.5 years to average out people who were on the project for varying lengths of time. That leaves us at about 3539 manyears of production time.
But they built from an already existing product so let's double that for you if you are starting from scratch. Rounded down we are now at 7000 years.
But you will of course not make a game that big and complex. Let's say you make one 100 times smaller than Far Cry. That'll only take 70 years.
But they are all experienced professionals so we can probably double this again. Landing at a cool 140 years.
Your team is 4 people meaning it'll take you 35 years of fulltime work to deliver a game that's 1% of Far Cry 5. My original estimate was off. You'll only be in your 50s, so you'll have plenty of time for a sequel 🙂
@flat gazelle Thanks for your math
I know it's impossible to do such thing
and as @lilac walrus said I make my idea much much smaller
plucky hatch
i will see you again and tell you what credit means
urban hawk
what are you superheroes?
@tidal moth just forget it
plucky hatch
what are you superheroes?
@tidal moth we have sth make us super heros
tidal moth
well you better have a time machine and infinite resources
plucky hatch
well you better have a time machine and infinite resources
@tidal moth you are fun i like you
well you better have a time machine and infinite resources
@tidal moth its kidding
well you better have a time machine and infinite resources
@tidal moth but make it smaller
hybrid phoenix
🙄
flat gazelle
Yeah, I think I might need to add another multiplier...
I did not account for maturity level.
wary idol
well with that attitude I can assure you you will never achieve anything
plucky hatch
I want to make something akin to the story elements from RDR2 but distil it down to the duration of a third of a chapter. I want to make this project in 3 years.
I'm currently a programmer, and I know someone who writes, and while his sister is a phenomenal art designer, she's not into game design, which brings me to an acquaintance who's her batchmate who I've worked with before.
I'll need to understand how cutthroat the market is I suppose.
plucky hatch
I suspected as much, hence my short rant heh.
I'll give it another read.
Well I must say I'm overestimating my talents. Maybe I can hope to make that kind of thing in 10 years?
I can only deliver 5 minutes of playtime, give-or-take, within two weeks.
± a month
I need to take my code-fu a few levels up.
Yet I do have experience in real world projects. Kind of.
hybrid phoenix
Story-based games are immensely resource-heavy
Far moreso on the art-side than the code-side
plucky hatch
Indeed, I'm not even sure if I can pull off an FPS like that
I want to grok DX and Vulkan, at least slightly, and know the ins and outs of shaders to a similar extent
I'll not shy away from copying code or using xassets, but I'm fairly confident that if I can understand how to deliver art optimally, my systems knowledge won't fall short, and I can customise the heck out of whatever I grab.
I have most of my xp in Unity, but I started on Unreal a few years back, and I primarily know Unity, Godot, and Unreal.
I'm hoping whichever path I take, being in a familiar ecosystem will make things quick.
hybrid phoenix
I think you can have a great time and learn a lot
Just know what you're embarking on, and don't do it with the assumption that you'll ever make it to the end 😬
plucky hatch
It's a process, I get that 😂
plucky hatch
hey guys, just a simple question. I have to make a complete game
How much does it cost to have a designer make a 3D character
frigid ridge
Depends on the time put in. Over $100 per day. You could get something done quick with someone that knows what they are doing. Think about how much you would want to get paid to spend 8 hours working on a project per day.
That's about 40k per year.
hybrid phoenix
40k/y for a freelancer is very low. So is $100/day. You can safely quadruple that
kindred mason
salary needs is just dependent on cost of living for ones self. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
$160K is kinda silly IMHO, even in america as a freelancer. (Not to say there are no opportunities to make that much and if you have the talent/experience for it, there's that)
And if we're talking about a 3d character artist itself (and we're probably thinking Indie budgets around here for the most part), $160K for one project? Nah
Especially when you can get great talent full-time for 1/3rd that price easily (if not 1/4th)
Anyway @plucky hatch don't spend $160K a year on someone
And to make it easier, $15-$25/hr range is where you probably should be looking at
There are plenty of 3D artists at this range
Do an MVP, prototype, than look for publisher/investment elsewhere, ramp up production as needed from there
But, this is probably a bit OT in #career-chat
steady pewter
@plucky hatch also, don't spam everywhere with the same question 🙂
marsh prism
Junior level character artists can range between $40-$60k/yr ($20-$30/hr) USD, while senior character artists can range from $60-$90k/yr ($30-$45/hr) USD. A character art lead can run up into the $100k+/yr ($50/hr) USD. I wouldn’t be comfortable hiring a character artist for $160k unless they were highly proficient in all aspects of character art production, up to and including character design/concept, high poly modeling/scanning/retopology pipeline dev, blend shape work, a substantial understanding of deformation and character modeling as relates to animation, proficient hair and costuming skills, the ability to lead a team and even engine integration. A $160k/yr character artist would need at least a decade of xp as a AAA character artist for me to pay that salary range
And even then that’s pushing it
(I’d even hazard that if I were to pay an artist $160k it would be as an art director and c-level employee)
frigid ridge
$160k lmao he was just trolling me. Pay no attention but thank you for the insight.
plucky hatch
I usually subsist on $250-300/mo, so I can go pretty low, but I'm a lowly programmer yet.
digital gate
You remind me of me 3 or 4 years ago or something
Go as high as you can, it'll help cover the droughts.
flat gazelle
Damn, being a character artist is rough if they cap out at 45 per hour. Or maybe that's for fulltime employment. For freelance that's atrocious.
ashen lynx
Those figures should definitely be full-time.
royal lintel
Heavily depends on location, studio, etc as well.
flat gazelle
Yeah I guess it is. Confusing sine goosey was taking about freelance
If it were freelance rates Id feel bad for them, and feel better about my career choices xD
flint hawk
Junior level character artists can range between $40-$60k/yr ($20-$30/hr) USD, while senior character artists can range from $60-$90k/yr ($30-$45/hr) USD. A character art lead can run up into the $100k+/yr ($50/hr) USD. I wouldn’t be comfortable hiring a character artist for $160k unless they were highly proficient in all aspects of character art production, up to and including character design/concept, high poly modeling/scanning/retopology pipeline dev, blend shape work, a substantial understanding of deformation and character modeling as relates to animation, proficient hair and costuming skills, the ability to lead a team and even engine integration. A $160k/yr character artist would need at least a decade of xp as a AAA character artist for me to pay that salary range
@marsh prism i think you can achieve this level of income if you have multiple income streams, and if you reinvest the money you make.
hybrid phoenix
My comment was indeed referring to freelance. If you're freelancing, I sure as heck hope you're making vastly more than $40k/y when you make full-time hours doing work for people - because here's the kicker, you won't be doing consistent full-time hours
Freelance is generally faaar more expensive than what you get paid 'hourly' as a full-time employee
Because there's no guarantee you'll get any work next month, you've gotta pay for your own office space, your own insurances, you don't have unemployment benefits, the list goes on and on
So as a matter of fact, no, I was not at all trolling. $15/h is embarrassingly low for a competent worker - you could work at McDonald's for that money.
It won't take an artist a full year to do a single character, obviously, so you won't be paying $160k for a single character
And if you were employing someone for a year, their rates would probably go down in accordance, because you're taking out a lot of the insecurity that 'inflates' freelance rates
flat gazelle
Yeah, for freelance I would not get out bed for something as low as $50/hr. No chance. My longest freelance project gave me a long stable income so I was able to drop it all the way down to 65/h. But only because that was fulltime guaranteed for several months. For shorter projects, no chance.
hybrid phoenix
My minimum nowadays is $50/hr, and I should've made that decision a long time ago. Can't say I'm actively freelancing now, though, so it's more just if something comes up that pays well I'll take it
violet atlas
Hi, i'm working on getting an internship for school. I'm interested in Environment Art but I imagine level design and lightning are really close. Should I make a portfolio for each one (one with blocking volume only, an other just lightning and an other with a complete scene?) or everything is pretty much the same boat. Thank you a lot ! 🙂
marsh prism
It won't take an artist a full year to do a single character, obviously, so you won't be paying $160k for a single character
@hybrid phoenix the numbers are an average overall and more specific to full-time income, and a decently competitive hourly as it relates to an increasingly global market. People are welcome to charge more than $50/hr for high level character work but they best have solid AAA skills and knowledge...otherwise there are plenty of mid-level artists elsewhere that are more cost efficient
Hard reality of globalized artist markets
hybrid phoenix
There's certainly a point to be made for that. From a freelancer perspective, having a network relevant to what you do, where people know you're competent and worth your price, is key
@violet atlas Within AAA these are vastly different disciplines - I'd suggest picking one area and focussing on that. Being more widely interested and educated is definitely not a negative, but being a jack-of-all-trades often is, so I'd recommend 'specializing' in one of them, and making that your key selling point
marsh prism
But ultimately I agree, for freelancers it’s important to adjust hourly to cover overhead and downtime between jobs. I wouldn’t have too much of an issue hiring a skilled character artist at $75/hr if it was 3 to even 6 mo contract
Obviously the results would have to speak to the cost!
(I know real time hair specialists who charge that or more hourly but their hair is just amazing and they are fast and efficient)
hybrid phoenix
Tldr; you generally get what you pay for and people are expensive, so evaluate your contractors properly 😬
violet atlas
@hybrid phoenix Thank you a lot, so im liking a lot making scene in unreal but not so much modelling, so for a lightning portfolio i'm looking to using premade scene and light them up? or use assets for a quick scene and light it up? Thank you again
hybrid phoenix
For lighting it's generally recommend to (radically) re-light an existing scene while not ruining performance
Your job is to make good assets shine, using your own assets when you're not good at creating them will just make your lighting look worse
violet atlas
So i should focus on real time lightning instead of just a frame?
hybrid phoenix
Well, a key part of being a lighting artist is making things look good while sticking to performance budgets
violet atlas
Ok great ! I wasn't sure since this professional world is new to me 🙂 Thank you a lot that was enlightning 😉
tidal moth
Hi, i'm working on getting an internship for school. I'm interested in Environment Art but I imagine level design and lightning are really close. Should I make a portfolio for each one (one with blocking volume only, an other just lightning and an other with a complete scene?) or everything is pretty much the same boat. Thank you a lot ! 🙂
@violet atlas no.
pick one and stick with it
level design and art in games are distinct
if you want to do a level design portfolio you are looking to showcase gameplay
not art
also in general it's really important to sell yourself as just being of a single role when applying in the industry
if you're putting yourself out there as a game designer/3d artist/backend programmer then you're going to be sending mixed messages to potential employers
violet atlas
@tidal moth oh ok i understand for level design. I want make things look good I think I'm gonna try to make a lightning portfolio thank you again for the answers !
quaint scaffold
Hey, quick question :
If someone offered you a monthly income/sum of money for you to work on your game, how much would you need and what do you think it would be an acceptable percentage of the game sales for that person.
For example:
2000$ / month and 10% of game sales goes to the investor.
This is just a survey.
Pease tag me if you wish to answer.
Max development time : 6 month, not longer.
shut tree
if you provide 20.000$ worth of work per month thats fair 😛
raven ginkgo
Hey guys, so someone on here said that in order to have a higher chance of getting into the gaming industry, one must focus on one role and one role only.
So for example, would unity developer be a specific role.
kind crater
no. A gameplay programmer would be a specific role. Or an environment artist.
raven ginkgo
Oh i see
So instead of say putting game developer as my linkedin title
i should put like gameplay programmer?
so its more specific for employers
tidal moth
yes
it is worth differentiating yourself even within a discipline
e.g. instead of saying game design, say level design, systems design or technical design
for programmers saying gameplay programming instead of AI programming, or render programming etc.
pick your niche and commit to it
raven ginkgo
Would it be ok if i could also get some feedback for my portfolio website. or u cant do that here
tidal moth
have you read #more-resources ?
raven ginkgo
let me do that
i think yes since this is career related right
actually nvm
its ok
kind crater
@raven ginkgo #work-in-progress
raven ginkgo
thanks
steel creek
@quaint scaffold that question has too many variables. What position? How many hours dedicated? Full time job? Even with 20% ownership stake, 2k a month for a professional to polish your idea and bring it to market is not enough.
quaint scaffold
@quaint scaffold that question has too many variables. What position? How many hours dedicated? Full time job? Even with 20% ownership stake, 2k a month for a professional to polish your idea and bring it to market is not enough.
@steel creek HEy,
NO, it's about position.
What I'm thinking about is a Game Dev's INvestment Fund.
So, let's say, you a re developing a game ( either solo or with a team ), but you lack the necesary funds to pay for the cost of living if you go full time working on your game.
That is where this Fund is coming in, the fund would give you the money to develop the game, but at the end, once the game goes on the market, the fund will receive a percentage of the sales for the lifetime of the game.
steel creek
I see, so, a publisher 😄
quaint scaffold
yeah.. 😄
But, without the added headache..
tidal moth
this sounds naive
hybrid phoenix
You got the money for it, alexs?
quaint scaffold
Maybe...
Still need to think about it more..
All I wanted from here was an understanding of how much of a percentage would be considered fair...
grim basin
An acceptable percentage would need to be a negotiable sum and honestly could bite you in the ass. If you spent 20k in a year supporting someone on a game that made $27.00 USD, you would have no way to recoup the money. It could pay off, but I would not take that risk on someone else personally. But I am sure you thought about all that already.
snow glen
Hi so im in quite a weird spot with my resume. I joined a small indie studio remotely to help them on the game design stuff but its been a few months where I haven't had any work from them but I asked my boss if I could "extend" the contract until we get more work. Should I stop counting these days on my resume even if Im not working at all for this studio?
quaint scaffold
The
An acceptable percentage would need to be a negotiable sum and honestly could bite you in the ass. If you spent 20k in a year supporting someone on a game that made $27.00 USD, you would have no way to recoup the money. It could pay off, but I would not take that risk on someone else personally. But I am sure you thought about all that already.
@grim basin I did think about it, and, as in most financial enterprizes, I am willing to take that risk.
I have thought out a process that would mitigate the risk by assessing the game and the dev's commitment to the game.
but, tell me, if you were in this scenario, what would be fair for you?
tidal moth
fair and viable are two different things
plucky hatch
Cooperation with your employer or competition against your other peers?
Or competing within the market?
tacit helm
Hi. I have a question regarding portfolio. Can I modify the free Unreal assets and / or Megascans assets and use them in my portfolio for Level Design and / or Environment Artist when looking for a job or I should create my own assets and use them for the portfolio ?
craggy nacelle
If the assets' license is compatible, I don't see why not. As long as you don't misrepresent what you've created (eg. don't claim you created the assets from scratch) it doesn't really matter
tacit helm
So, if I use the free assets for example, Soul: Cave and create a cave myself and add it to my portfolio, is that ok as a level designer ?
craggy nacelle
Sure, there's a lot more to good level design than just the assets you've used
Obviously if you create the assets or at least some of them yourself, it'll be more impressive in the sense that you also have the skillset to do that
tacit helm
Yea, that's what I am about to ask next. 🙂
For Environment Artist, we definitely have to create our own assets, am I right ?
To make something, like a cave, or a beach or a forest to add in portfolio.
craggy nacelle
Think of it from the perspective of the person who's looking to hire you
If they need an environment artist, what would they like to see?
tacit helm
Ok a general question. What software do you use for creating assets ?
tacit helm
Ok, so all 3D software in general.
languid yew
They are two good options
craggy nacelle
General 3D modeling and texturing skills are something that do mostly translate between different tools
For example, if you're a good Blender artist, you could probably switch to Maya fairly easily - it would just be a matter of learning how to use Maya's UI and tools
tacit helm
Which one is difficult ? Maya or Blender ? Why I ask is, if we learn the difficult one first, the easy one will be easy later.
Oh nevermind. You said Blender to learn first above.
languid yew
Yeah for me it's a lot easier
tacit helm
I want to create assets myself. Don't know how. But before that, I want to learn Blueprints first.
How do you two learn Blueprints ?
Is it difficult to understand ?
languid yew
Somethimes
craggy nacelle
Depends on your background... programming experience helps a lot
tacit helm
No, Science background. 😋
languid yew
I just learnt the basics first then experimented with those then moved onto more complex things
And the experimented with those
And then started moving into stuff like AI and materials
languid yew
Yeah should be
tacit helm
I guess not. But there is no section for Freelancing.
languid yew
But I suggest starting with modeling first cause blueprints can take a while to get your head around
And with level design
Also why did you ask about the props in my game?
ashen lynx
You have likely mixed up environment art with level design.
languid yew
Me or Spelire?
tacit helm
In one place, the Terms and Conditions for Megascans states that we should not use their free assets to publish a game and make money. In another place, they say its ok as long as the assets are inseparable part of our end-product - our game as a whole. The same goes for using Unreal's free assets too. So, I am confused.
ashen lynx
There is nothing wrong with using already available assets, in pure or modified form, provided that those assets are not the main subject of the work you will be appreciated for.
ashen lynx
What was your inital question ?
tacit helm
Can you wait please, let me search and send you the link.
wary idol
You can use free assets as long as they are not the main focus\only thing in the game/level
Basically if you took a megascan rock put it in an empty level and call it a game
tacit helm
In one place, the Terms and Conditions for Megascans states that we should not use their free assets to publish a game and make money. In another place, they say its ok as long as the assets are inseparable part of our end-product - our game as a whole. The same goes for using Unreal's free assets too. So, I am confused.
@tacit helm THis is the freelancing question
languid yew
Oh ok
tacit helm
@wary idol So, if I "modify" those free assets, then I can use them in my game and sell them, am I right ?
Just not in the purest form.
languid yew
You don't even have to modify them
tacit helm
Oh, ok.
languid yew
They can be in the purist form just not saying oh I made this give me credit for it
craggy nacelle
The megascans license is frankly a little bit confusing for the free assets... especially since Epic advertises that you get Megascans assets for free with UE
languid yew
Yeah it is
tacit helm
@craggy nacelle Yea, exactly.
craggy nacelle
It appears to state that unless you are in scope of the other licenses, free assets can only be used for internal evaluation purposes and you cannot commercially use them
the other license plans are the Personal License, Indie License, Pro License or Studio License
tacit helm
Yea, that's what I read too.
craggy nacelle
and in this context, "free assets" refers to assets made available by Epic for UE developers
tacit helm
No problem at all for internal evaluation. But when it comes to using those assets for making money ...
Hm
languid yew
Pretty confusing
craggy nacelle
It seems you would most likely qualify for a Personal License
as it states individuals who make less than 100 000 gross annual revenue would qualify for it
tacit helm
@languid yew That is why I asked whether you used the free assets / if yes, to what extent or made your own assets.
craggy nacelle
but yeah as long as you're not using the assets commercially you should be good, using them in your portfolio is not commercial use
tacit helm
@craggy nacelle That is much better to know.
languid yew
@languid yew That is why I asked whether you used the free assets / if yes, to what extent or made your own assets.
@tacit helm yeah so I have been making a lot of my own models and staying away from the free stuff
craggy nacelle
You may use our Megascans assets in your project from the Unreal Unlimited plan, provided that they are incorporated as an inseparable part of the project and the end result is in UE4/Twinmotion. This project can then be used commercially as per EULA Terms.
This is in context of using Megascans assets in a UE4 project
tacit helm
Yea.
craggy nacelle
so as long as you are using them within a UE4 project, commercial usage according to regular UE4 licensing is okay
tacit helm
I have been reading it a lot of times. Still I am confused.
craggy nacelle
it's actually a good thing you brought this up because I've been using some megascans assets in my project and this would have eventually come up for me to figure out as well :P
languid yew
Same
craggy nacelle
Under this specific plan, there is no charge for Megascans and you get unlimited access absolutely free.
This unlimited Megascans access is licensed for use with Unreal Engine and Twinmotion only and treats Megascans assets as UE-Only Content under the Unreal Engine End User License Agreement that you have accepted under the Epic Games account.
the relevant information is here if you want to look for yourself https://help.quixel.com/hc/en-us/sections/360000977797
tacit helm
👍 This is my doubt for a long time when I suddenly stumbled upon a link about using the free assets in a game.
Can I send you guys some links about this to your DM ?
languid yew
Sure
tacit helm
Maybe you can read them and tell me later.
languid yew
If you want
craggy nacelle
Yeah the answers in those basically state the same
as long as the final product of your thing is a UE4 based thing, commercial use is okay
tacit helm
Thank you @craggy nacelle
craggy nacelle
The confusing legalese in the actual terms and conditions on the free assets states if you don't qualify for any of the other licenses, then it's only for internal use... but as part of your UE4 license, you get access to "unreal unlimited" Quixel license, so thus you are now on a qualified license tier
craggy nacelle
Yeah, those are the other available licensing options, for users who don't use UE4
craggy nacelle
Megascans can be used without UE4 :)
tacit helm
Yea, in Unity etc.
gentle sand
when reading a new code base, what do you guys do when you don't understand some of the code at all? what are good approaches that don't require others to help you since that's hard to come by
steady pewter
wtf per minute
Otherwise, just reading and thinking. Schemes, debug, printing and coca cola.
plucky hatch
I usually digest a language and the extra codegen conventions before diving in.
This is especially sensible for UE4, but also in case an implementation language provides a Turing complete syntax extension system, like for Amethyst/Rust or Bevy/Rust.
NB I've been reading the Rust book recently so I may have a bias towards it.
kindred mason
@gentle sand https://www.twitch.tv/videos/724235385
honest cipher
when i look into a new big codebase, the first time i try to look is finding the "main loop" function
another thing that works incredibly well is to insert a profiler like Tracy or unreal insights, which will give you a timeline of where the program is spending its time
then you can follow the code , kind of as a way of finding the main loop in more complex programs
and then, i look at the data structures and classes to see how it does
tacit siren
and for questions like what calls this function, you just breakpoint the function and examine the callstacks
honest cipher
thats exactly what i did to find how the hell the Tick logic works lol
breakpoint on Tick, see up the callstack what ends up calling it
it breaks very hard on multithreaded context tho
or deferred execution/taskgraph type stuff
sour cosmos
is it possible to place objects on the ground using physics in the editor ? and i mean at editing time
steady pewter
@sour cosmos why posting such question here 🤔 Try on #ue4-general
sour cosmos
Oops, sorry, dont know why i was on #career-chat when i posted !
marsh stream
Perhaps a silly question but does it look any worse if my artstation account has my gameTag name instead of my real name? Is it seen as unprofessional? Sometimes I like to share my work but wouldnt want to give people my name as its pretty easily findable on websites like LinkedIn and Facebook and i dont really want random people on the internet to be looking at my profile on particular platforms.
steady pewter
As long as you stick with one Text string which is representing your artistic persona, you are fine.
marsh stream
Just to be clear, as long as I concistently use the same name for my artistic persona, Im fine. Understood. Thats great to hear. Thanks 👍
steady pewter
Yep, same. Really, it is an image you build behind that name. So take care of it. Up to you to share your personal details when needed later.
marsh stream
Alright, I'll be sure to keep that in mind! 🙏
static urchin
When I turned up at my current workplace the first thing the art assistant asked was how to correctly spell my handle. doubt ill get credited on this job, but my nametag on my desk has it right there haha
grave spindle
How should I effectively build a portfolio- like, I kinda don't write the date on my work
I can guesstimate the year but like all humans I can be wrong
fresh siren
Does anyone want to Collab on a game? Please have experience. Dm if interested
flat gazelle
Why is the date relevant?
grave spindle
To show how I've improved over time? Idk, all my art teachers say that date is important :v
fickle hatch
Dating your art is a customary thing
As someone who had to do technical archaelogy, I suggest dating and signing your things when you can and are permitted to
Because it's not only the results of your work that matter, but for a small number of people it is also the human artistic aspects of your work and the idea that a person made it that matter
grave spindle
:0 I mean I sign most of my work
I just don't always put a date
The last thing I put a date on was a canvas I painted back in March 2019
flat gazelle
Why would you show that?
A portfolio should only contain your very best work.
If you have to date something to give a reason it's not as good as the recent stuff, it does not belong in a portfolio.
Nobody cares how you improved.
Your portfolio is only as strong as the weakest piece. A date doesn't change that.
fickle hatch
It was customary to put the date & signature on the back side of your painting
It's not something that most people care about and portfolio should give a sense of what you can do now, not require the person to extrapolate on what maybe you can do tomorrow (use your own charisma to attain that)
grave spindle
I will keep this in mind
hidden river
lilac walrus
read the pinned messages in those channels
snow glen
Hi so im in quite a weird spot with my resume. I joined a small indie studio remotely to help them on the game design stuff but its been a few months where I haven't had any work from them but I asked my boss if I could "extend" the contract until we get more work. Should I stop counting these days on my resume even if Im not working at all for this studio?
ashen lynx
Question is, would it matter at all?
snow glen
How do you mean?
If I get an interview and they ask me about my last 4 months there but in fact I only worked for about a month or so, then that would be tough to explain
hybrid phoenix
Well, there's your answer then
Don't put things on your resume you don't feel comfortable answering questions about
snow glen
fair but if my "employer" wants to work with me again then I'll have to revert it back so dont want to look suspicious there either
pliant oasis
@snow glen You are still contracted, so means u have a job
Just say the truth, you worked for a period of time and then didn't have that much work
be honest
empty wing
Hello everyone! I want to ask what is the best way to price art work? For example I am a 3D artist, so should I charge the client hourly or have a fixed price?
green oyster
@empty wing you should charge hourly and for each asset you estimate a number of hours it takes to complete. If the client changes his mind about something or has unreasonable feedback you can say it takes an extra X hours to implement
empty wing
Thanks for the insight! @green oyster
snow glen
@pliant oasis yeah I got that I just dont know what to put down on my resume. My contract extension only happened verbally too
glossy salmon
Hi everyone! I was wondering if you guys could help me answer a question or two.
I've been recently learning C++ as well as Unreal Engine 4 and I developed a deep love for it.
I have thought about getting into the game development field and my questions are how much required knowledge do I need to know to get an entry level job, what should my portfolio be focused on if I were to start applying, is it possible to not go to school to get a job, and is there someone who I may find to ask more about?
ashen lynx
how much required knowledge do I need to know to get an entry level job Just enough to perform entry-level duties. what should my portfolio be focused on Focusing skills, as directly applicable to the position applied for, as practicable. is it possible to not go to school to get a job School? Unlikely. Higher education/ University ? Yes. More specific answers depend on specialization you wish to pursue. @glossy salmon
glossy salmon
I appreciate you answering my questions! I'll think about going back to university, but i want to secure whatever low entry job i can get as my goal.
iron quest
hello people, as someone who's currently trying to find an internship so i can graduate i would like to ask for advice on building a game audio portfolio, like what should i include, if i should make one focused on sfx and sound design and another for music, or if i can have them both together, any advice is welcome
buoyant latch
In my experience most studios outsource composers for music and hire in house sound designers for sfx and implementation
steady pewter
@glossy salmon Just to add that University/High school might not be so much of hard requirement. It pretty much depends on the company you are applying in.
lilac walrus
internships in game audio would be incredibly rare - I don't think I've ever seen one offered
golden blade
Guys I had a question..As of now the game institute I'm studying in costs a lot like 3.5 lakhs INR (4725 usd) Which is a lot for a 2 year course in game art and design....and honestly I'm thinking of going Self-taught permanently because now after a few monthly payments things are not lookin' good financially...Should I go Self-taught fully? and leave the institute
I mean there are a lot of Online courses that offer a lot with less price and there's a lot of udemy courses too
I am honestly confused and a tad bit scared
Because I donna the roadmap if I'll be learning as a self-Taught game artist and developer
tidal moth
@golden blade what role are you aiming for
shut token
There is no "right" path. There are multiple ways to achieve what you want. What works for you, ultimately depends on you. Everyone is different.
golden blade
<@!683050665676636160> what role are you aiming for
3d artist at first..assets creation nature assets and then later on to become environment artist..working closely with level designers
tidal moth
@golden blade to be honest a lot of games programmes are pretty awful. I'd do a lot of self study first and see how far you can go with that. it's always going to be a detriment not having a degree for traveling abroad however
but maybe in the post corona climate that won't matter so much, what with everyone working remotely
golden blade
My game institute here doesn't provide a degree since its a 2 year specialisation course .... Also If I am moving from India to Abroad for after a few yrs of job in industry... Will the recruiters look for a degree ?
lilac walrus
since you're coming from India a degree will likely be a part of the immigration requirements
there's not much the recruiter nor the employer can do about that
golden blade
What if its a certificate of completion provided by the institute if I decide to say in
or do I HAVE to get a proper college degree ?
because i opted for a specialized course instead of going to regular college where they take a lotta money and just teach u theory and less hands on practice
lilac walrus
it will depend on the country and their immigration laws
but it's almost always going to be a degree
hybrid phoenix
A certificate for a course will likely be worth a lot less to immigration than a degree
golden blade
it will depend on the country and their immigration laws
What about U.K or U.S
lilac walrus
US will absolutely require a degree
hybrid phoenix
And for artists I'd generally sooner recommend just going self-taught when it comes to meaningful skills, and spending your would-be tuition money on specific courses instead
lilac walrus
UK probably
hybrid phoenix
UK might be special due to the colonial history
tidal moth
UK, US, EU all would require degrees
lilac walrus
dunno, they've been changing things a lot recently, along with the good old 'deport the black people' policy they now have
hybrid phoenix
Nah nevermind doesn't look like it
tidal moth
in fact most "I" countries would
or equivalent experience
e.g. in japan a workvisa is 10 years of experience or a bachelor degree
but you can count your certification course towards the experience
anyway the japan example is kind of moot anyway since most places over there require you to speak japanese, but you get the gist
golden blade
I'm sooo Confused at this point tbh...if I need to go with a degree I'd have to do an Open college/correspondence because its the only thing i can afford for now even tho I have good grades and If talkin' about the current course That costs like a lot too which I am currently paying via monthly installments
I mean at this point I'd have to do either both of them or drop one of them ?
golden blade
I donna which one to go with tbh..i'm just soo confused
tidal moth
go with the one that gets you a degree if I am being honest
just purely out of how much easier it will be to travel around
unless you want to work up the experience at an outsource place in india first
your call
golden blade
So just curious how much of my 2 yrs specialized course count towards the workin experience if I am lookin' for a job
golden blade
Hmm
tidal moth
you'd still have to magically pull out 4-8 years from somewhere
golden blade
yeah I get what u're saying...I need to talk to my parents
pliant mural
Hey everyone! I'm new to this Discord and to learning Unreal Engine and thought I would ask if anyone knew of any bootcamps or online courses to help me learn blueprints and general engine functionality. I've been self-teaching with Udemy but am looking for something more structured and involved. Any input would be appreciated. Thank you!
mystic storm
@pliant mural learn.unrealengine.com
wise rampart
Hi, do you think that being from a Spanish-speaking country is going to affect me when looking for a job?
pastel estuary
if your english is decent, or have spanish speaking clients/employers it shouldnt matter.
wise rampart
Unfortunately there are no job opportunities in the country where I live (Argentina), nor in neighboring countries.
My ability to speak English is certainly limited, but I consider myself capable of understanding almost everything when other people speak, and capable to comunicate everything i need to.
drifting star
Hi, is there any website or something that show you how much knowledge have you learnt ( enough or not enough) to find a job? i'm learning UE4 for a few months but don't know if i can get a job yet.
winter osprey
me and my team working on a mobile based mobile game all information will be shared with you soon when you will msg me want someone who work for royalty and revenue
drifting star
@winter osprey but i don't know if i have enough knowledge to work with your project yet..
winter osprey
@drifting star i have messaged to the community as there are no offers in royalty and unpaid section so i have posted here in carrier chat no if you want to work with me then please message me so we can start
drifting star
@winter osprey what do you mean, i can't understand properly what are you saying
winter osprey
i means can you help me with my project??
drifting star
im looking for a job but don't know if i have enough knowledge to do that
drifting star
i spend my time learing logic game ( like weapon , skill, item blueprints, character behaviours....), not get used to do with model ( animation, 3d model,....)
drifting star
what is royalty, sorry i'm new with these words
winter osprey
means revenue after publishing game
drifting star
i prefer paid, but only if i finish my job
because as i said earlier, i don't know if i'm ready to work ( with my current knowledge)
winter osprey
ohh ok
drifting star
@winter osprey unpaid is fine too, if you feel i can handle the job after a few weeks you can pay me later
winter osprey
but i want someone work fo royalty
drifting star
@winter osprey i can work for royalty too, since i want to improve my skill first, not care too much about money.
winter osprey
ohh ok
i have sended you friend request please check
no facing error that you are not accepting requests
drifting star
im adding you
regal lotus
Hey guys, I have a question, I'm currently learning a lot in Game Development, and I mean a lot, I really want to pursue Game Design as my dream career, but I'm stuck in a problem currently
I wanted to take a Degree in Game Design but saving money to take it is getting really really hard, and I'm not sure if it's worth it for me to spend almost 13.000€ (I know it doesn't sound like a lot compared to US but I'm in Portugal, our minimum wage here is 600€ or close to that) or if it's just better for me to leave the job I'm currently at (14h a day, almost have no time for myself) and start learning by myself and creating a portfolio with all the projects that work on, can you guys give me some advice? Someone who's gone trough this and works on the industry right now please?
hybrid phoenix
Depends highly what part of the industry you want to be in. Do you actually want to be doing game design? Or do you mean 'game dev in general' when you say game design?
honest cipher
@regal lotus game design degrees are a waste of money
regal lotus
Game Deb in general to be honest, I don't have a preferred area, I like to do it all around, specially 3D, I'm actually going deep into Blender currently
Dev*
regal lotus
<@!252415628688883714> game design degrees are a waste of money
Exactly what I thought but usually it's only way in without a really really strong portfolio
hybrid phoenix
Then don't get a degree. Go do your own portfolio stuff, spend some money on high quality courses for key things you struggle with
a really really strong portfolio
So that's what you should be doing
honest cipher
i havent seen a single game degree that wasnt a ripoff
spain
so basically neighbour
on the Complutense university, one of the best public univresities for computer science, they use ogre for their engine class
hybrid phoenix
You're not gonna be ready to get an industry job in a year. It'll take a lot of work. But degrees in specifically gamedev are pretty much always garbage
honest cipher
ogre is a open source game engine that was shit
15 years ago
on the other courses they mostly work on unity/unreal, but they dont really know that much
regal lotus
Holla 😂 ahahahah
But yeah, I'm gonna do that, I'm gonna work hard on a Portfolio, I already have some unfinished projects, but I don't know if unfinished projects are worth to put in to a portfolio or not
honest cipher
doesnt matter if its unfinished as long as its flashy
regal lotus
on the Complutense university, one of the best public univresities for computer ...
OMG that is the worst engine possible ahahahah
honest cipher
not only is ogre absolutely terrible, but the way they use it is terrible too. And for graphics they only learn oldstyle (20 years old) opengl
tacit siren
i interviewed one game dev alumni just yesterday... "when we worked with unreal we were not allowed to use blueprints at all"
regal lotus
Something that I noticed too is that all degrees work with Unity, I've never seen one with Unreal Engine
tacit siren
which is somehow... worse
honest cipher
@tacit siren there is such a level of dumbassness
hybrid phoenix
Just gonna reiterate this.
You're not gonna be ready to get an industry job in a year. It'll take a lot of work.
Expect to spend the time you'd be spending on a degree becoming actually qualified by yourself
honest cipher
on the big projects ive seen some incredibly retarded shit that gets fixed in a couple engine checkboxes
but they just didnt know couse their teachers didnt know either
plus because the group projects tend to be like 10 people, there is tons of space for people to coast there
and not learn that much
regal lotus
Just gonna reiterate this.
> You're not gonna be ready to get an industry job in...
So 3 years more precisely, or even a little less if I force myself on a crunch time every day
ashen lynx
Game design.. is arguably something, that you cannot teach. Gotta have or develop gut and talent for it.
honest cipher
@ashen lynx for game design, best is modding
and 2d game development where you actually ship the games
ashen lynx
Yeah, and a dozen of prototypes ready to to be shown will always outweight even best degree.
hybrid phoenix
So 3 years more precisely, or even a little less if I force myself on a crunch t...
Numbers are arbitrary, depends a lot on you as a person. Point is simply that you won't be ready to get a job in a year.
regal lotus
Hmm... I'll check it out, maybe I can even do some money during my learning period, because leaving a job for a shot in the dark... Well
ashen lynx
But for gamedesign, gotta be tryharding. Picking dirtier, more technical fields, puts you into less competition and in a more stable demand.
regal lotus
Yeah, and a dozen of prototypes ready to to be shown will always outweight even ...
Yeah I think so too, prototypes rely on creativity and are born from an ideia, if you have both the creativity and you can prototype what you had in vision, then that's already something really good I guess
ashen lynx
thats not enough
tidal moth
become a dirty rice farming render programmer
ashen lynx
it needs to be good in addition to all of that
tidal moth
and itll open doors that you never knew existed
wise rampart
For the portfolio thing, how do I proof that I have programming skills in C++??
tidal moth
show a video of the thing you made in working condition
preferably with a lot of cases covered
then bundle the code to it
wise rampart
Mmmm, i like that idea
Im just learning C++ now, once i finish the couse Im doing i will start learning to code C++ in unreal,
adding that to my knowledge of blueprints.
I just don't know how hard it's going to be to get a job having only those abilities.
vapid gorge
Find a project you can showcase your work on
winged axle
Im just learning C++ now, once i finish the couse Im doing i will start learning...
There's tons of cpp programmers, find a specialty and dive in. General gameplay cpp programmers and 3d hardsurface modelers are typically the easiest positions to fill. Look among various places at what skills people have that are looking for jobs, they're looking for a reason, then look at the skills that aren't there, those people didn't have a hard time finding a job since there's none needing to post about looking for one.
Specialized pipeline techs tend to do well, advanced ai, and I don't mean what most consider advanced, I mean neural network based ai, pattern recognition ai, the darkest depths of the specialty. Places most people are to lazy to go learning, that's where the most skills in demand are
winged axle
And definitely figure out what aspect you enjoy, doing something you find engaging and satisfying will help a ton with keeping motivation, and I think its safe to say the hardest part by far will be keeping motivation
wise rampart
I find your answer usefull. in fact, i was thinking to learn neural networks with python and tensor flow after i learn C++, then learn to make neural networks with C++ once i understand how they work, and then learn how to use them in Unreal.
I think it will be a hard path, but this can get to be very satisfactory when i search for work
steady pewter
Guys, I think you just like fancy words. NN in gamedev? Yeah, but that no any guarantee. In fact, if you don't pitch interesting stuff with it, it is just over complex idea. 95% of the time you can just do fine, on time and on budget with something simpler. Its mostly about how to make it believable, not to show off that you got phd in some science.
tidal moth
players just love it when the AI outsmarts them
hybrid phoenix
NN etc. is very in-demand in software engineering. In game-dev it's just a pointless hype. AI is designed to fulfil exact functions according to game design, not to be some magical highly intelligent entity that cannot be beat. You won't have the control you need over a neural net based AI
If you want good chances in being a programming in the industry, just put your efforts towards understanding computer science and writing good, efficient code, rather than trying to learn specific gimmicks
flat gazelle
Is it possible to add reminders in discord? I want to see the above comment again in 5 years.
lilac walrus
sadly not, without certain bots
but I see neural networks increasingly appearing within the tools chain, if not in other offline processes that might directly affect live service games
flat gazelle
Yeeeep
hybrid phoenix
Just being able to use NNs is not gonna be your best bet to get into the industry if that's where all your attention goes is my point
honest cipher
NNs are alrady being used for animation
those neural net based animation runtimes are pretty hax
also for bots, in some very specific cases
lilac walrus
I can see NN being a good way to train racing game AI
you wouldn't see it in the final product, but you could certainly use it to get AI 'playing by the rules' with a degree of proficiency
steady pewter
Dreams are good, first learn to walk however. Learn solutions to current problems, invest in future possibilities. NN... fine, whatever. But if you gonna spend 3 months coding some stupid behavior you are better off with your proven behavior tree for example.
Anyway, we certainly will start to see more and more tools based on such ideas. So, it is not bad per se.
tacit siren
NN is practically useless for AI unless you have 5+ programmers doing just AI, which kinda limits you to AA/AAA as far as your job prospects go, imo
only large teams have a good use for a narrow specialty
lilac walrus
you don't get small teams making racing game AI anyway
you basically only have Microsoft and 2k in that market
tacit siren
that would be quite an undertaking, training AI with NNs and non-deterministics physics
lilac walrus
Forza already does it as far as I'm aware
ashen lynx
NN will be used more and more in many aspects, but with respect to AI, I guess, it will be well-defined use cases. I think a racetrack is one of them.
lilac walrus
yep, looks like they've use a NN to train their AI since the first Forza Motorsport on the XBox 😄
flat gazelle
There are so many areas where it could be used for improving workflows and rulesets.
ashen lynx
I would really love to see a prototype of tower defence game, where waves of enemies are evolving and are powered by NN to adapt to what player is building.
winged axle
players *just love it* when the AI outsmarts them
That's very narrow minded way of thinking.
Neural networks can do various things from analyzing a player's habits on places in a game they play the most or enemies they spend the most time against and construct dynamic levels with those in mind to increase the players fun.
They can be used for analyzing where the player has the most problems and adjust things so the player can get past a level that the dev's might have made too difficult, rather than the player giving up and dropping the game
They can be used on the developer end as well to assist workflow and automate tasks dynamically.
Broaden your thinking before assuming something can only be good at one task, your brain is a neural network after all, is all you can do, outsmart a player?
tidal moth
That's very narrow minded way of thinking.
Neural networks can do various thin...
it's actually not "narrow minded", it's just design thinking
also I gave one example of where you wouldn't want it and you immediately call me out for being narrow minded? yikes
ashen lynx
By the time you reach decent complexity on the net, it will become a burden to evaluate, therefore, NN will remain niche for game AI for a good while.
winged axle
If you want good chances in being a programming in the industry, just put your e...
In learning complex ai, it's not so much being able to do the ai that benefits the most, but the skillsets you learn doing it, you become great at innovating workarounds to complex tasks and optimizing things about as much as physically possible. I'd trust optimization done by a specialist ai tech over one's done by a dedicated programmer any day, they're more efficient and reliable
tacit siren
using an AI to adjust difficulty is a very slippery slope, if you end up with the difficulty that is constant relative to player skills, you just killed your game
as there are no peaks and valleys, every moment is just as intense as any other moment
ashen lynx
It is slippery indeed.
tidal moth
also if AI is so good that we can just cut off designers as a profession then I'd expect every game with procedural generation to do better than its designed counterpart
winged axle
Not adjusting difficulty so much as performing a subtle push. For example a player hit a lever combination for a door in an unexpected way that the lazy dev's didn't properly QA test, and is now in a position where progress is impossible, but the player isn't aware of that and just getting frustrated, the ai set for pattern recognition can recognize this and self diagnose
tacit siren
i did see a very interesting project using NNs to teach an AI to move/animate tho
tidal moth
ah yes, those pesky lazy devs whose bad work is magically fixed by AI
winged axle
Devs are needed for creativity, literally everything else can be handled fine by ai. You could make an ai that builds and designs something based on a spoken description
If your good enough
steady pewter
Need a fan club for NN in games.
ashen lynx
I am currently experimenting with perceptron for certain type of npcs in a certain situation. Can't say that results are impressive. But the fun you get when developing it on the way is mad. I also think we should move to #industry-chat for this.
flat gazelle
Meh, this is the proceduralism discussion all over again. It's not an all or nothing thing.
tacit siren
we're now in "programming is the only job where the ultimate achievement is to make oneself obsolete" area
tidal moth
I think some of the examples of what AI can do, while definitely in the realm of possibility, are wishful thinking on the part on the industry
winged axle
My original comment was only meant as "don't just study the basics of comp science and think you can get into the industry" because places want specialists not another data entry intern. I did not intend this to blow up into a discussion regarding ai only
ashen lynx
@flat gazelle Are there any NN-empowered tools used on pipelines yet?
tidal moth
well you certainly managed to call people out based on nothing
winged axle
I still stand by my rebuke of you implying nn ai can only be used specifically for an enemy that tries to outsmart the player, as being narrow minded
steady pewter
Well, CS is truly generic. Its just niche of the niche. I mean AI in games is good enough. If you reach the AI NN project - okay.
flat gazelle
@ashen lynx yep
tidal moth
I still stand by my rebuke of you implying nn ai can only be used specifically f...
I've never said that
winged axle
players *just love it* when the AI outsmarts them
?
ashen lynx
@flat gazelle Would you mind tossing any examples? Provided of course, that they are public domain.
ashen lynx
Alright, understandable.
tidal moth
?
where do I have any mention of NN? I made a statement about AI in the player experience. you're making massive assumptions
flat gazelle
I think some is public, but I'm not sure of how much so I'd rather say nothing
winged axle
@ashen lynx Facial recognition software for motion capture is one example of such ai
That is a pattern recognition ai that's used on that situation
ashen lynx
it achieved result comparable to trackers yet ?
winged axle
I'll post link in #gameplay-ai
ashen lynx
Nice. I envisioned future of motion capture through injection of nanobots into actor's body and using a scanner. Good that we are not in my reality.
winged axle
😅
winged axle
@tidal moth my apologies, your comment right after the one by ryobg and how similar your icons are at a glance caused me to think both comments were yours. I did jump to conclusions a little from skim reading and should have directed that comment at ryobg instead of you.
tidal moth
maybe just calm down a bit, it's hardly a topic worth getting worked up over
or indeed use as a springboard to insult people
steady pewter
Who wants to fight, who? 🔫 💣 ⚔️
tacit siren
🪓
winged axle
I wasn't worked up, nor was it any kind of grave insult, merely stating that something is a little narrow minded, then providing examples and suggesting to be more open minded is not getting worked up or targeting someone in a harmful manner
pastel estuary
@ashen lynx google ubisoft neural network.
additionally "ubisoft neural network bug fixing"
and i remember a tweet about someone pointing out a lot of neural network devs suddenly got hired to work at game companies in the last two or so years.
winged axle
I could be wrong, and someone might fact check this, but I think augmented reality is also advanced ai
digital gate
in the sense that computing scale and position and skew would be a decision?
winged axle
In terms of object recognition
I believe it uses ai to do things like identify buildings or a couch, a person, things like that. Those fall into pattern recognition ai technology
Just another idea for career pathing into ai
pastel estuary
there was also this ai/nn thing that would fill up scenes depending on your (verbal) commands. but havent heard anything new from it these last 2 years. think some people claimed hoax
winged axle
Yea that's the one I mentioned earlier. I think some big company bought rights to the project
Happens a lot
pastel estuary
if true, would love to see it for vfx XD
"make pew pew, more swirls! add fizzles, mouth noises"
mouth noises to vfx converter when?
winged axle
If I recall correctly it started as a plugin for blender that you could use to do modeling just by giving basic commands, and it gradually evolved into encompassing full scenes before it suddenly vanished
pastel estuary
there was one for ue4 as well
flat gazelle
It's still going
pastel estuary
hehe
anyhoe, im really excited what it all will bring to the table in the upcoming years. anything that makes our lifes better is a plus.
winged axle
Yea, I view ai not as a solve all thing, but more of a lower the entrance height for all while raising the ceiling potential. When used to compliment the team's skillsets to enhance work effectiveness it frees up tons of time doing the mundane to give more for polishing detail
pastel estuary
"can you scale all these things 10% and offset their rotation randomly?"
- You got it human overlord
winged axle
xD
Sometimes the wacky things it does lead to great unintentional gameplay aspects too xD but that's straying a bit from the career focus of this chat
tidal moth
"make pew pew, more swirls! add fizzles, *mouth noises*"
useless unless you get the AI replying with "yes, master" for comedic effect
winged axle
There was a convention I went to one time where some guy there had built a plugin for unreal where it audibly responded in different ways based on what he was doing, purely to be comical so doing menial tasks wasn't as boring and draining, and he swore up and down it greatly increased his effectiveness and motivation to work
pastel estuary
@tidal moth i so did my best not to post that gif
winged axle
I guess I shouldn't say purely comical, if it detected his frame rates were too low it would respond with things like "I can't take much more" or "be more gentle with me" so I guess it worked as a bit of QA
tidal moth
you gotta be careful with that. too much reassurance and he'll end up marrying it
winged axle
But yea, the things you can use ai for in the career are limitless, even just as things that reduce the stress of the developers
pastel estuary
AI that auto-saves, commits and submits files trough version control for you.. why yes please.
scenic moon
"why the hell is Lous making 60 PRs a day all the sudden?!"
pastel estuary
Lousy Luos :p
winged axle
Lol xD I can see how the first few merges go already
jade mesa
Hi, my name is Christopher Gazeley and I’m a student studying 3D Animation. I’m currently working on a research project focusing on the differences between working in Games versus Film. I was hoping some people here would be willing to answer some questions for me? I’d especially like to hear from Animators, Riggers, Lighting Artists and Texture/Lookdev Artists.
-Are there any requirements or restrictions unique to games that come up that come up in your work?
-What sort of time constraints or deadlines are you expected to meet? Are overtime and/or crunch periods common?
-How compartmentalized is the work environment? Is there room to move between different roles?
-What is the usual starting wage for working on games? What is the average wage?
-How many hours is a typical work day?
-How easy is it to move between the game and film industries? Would you recommend starting in one over the other?
-What is the typical length of a contract?
-How much opportunity is there for entry level artists? Are some roles more competitive to get into than others?
-What software or skill sets do you recommend students learn in order to prepare for working in the industry?
-Do you have any advice for graduating students who want to get into the game industry?
And a bonus question for recruiters:
-What do you look for when hiring new people? Are there any specific things you are looking for when viewing demo reels?
Thank you!
hybrid phoenix
Are there any requirements or restrictions unique to games that come up that come up in your work?
Not sure what you mean here. Potentially optimization/performance limits being such a crucial part?
What sort of time constraints or deadlines are you expected to meet? Are overtime and/or crunch periods common?
In most of the industry, lots of time constraints and deadlines, and boatloads of crunch and overtime towards release. Varies heavily from one company to the next.
How compartmentalized is the work environment? Is there room to move between different roles?
Depends very heavily on the company and roles. Lighting Art to Tech Art? Probably feasible. Animator to Environment Artist? Not really a direct move, your experience as animator won't count.
What is the usual starting wage for working on games? What is the average wage?
Varies very heavily based on local cost of living. Wages are generally below what a similar position would pay in another industry.
How many hours is a typical work day?
Generally eight. Not counting common overtime and crunch.
How easy is it to move between the game and film industries? Would you recommend starting in one over the other?
Depends very heavily on the discipline. As VFX artist it's likely a lot more interchangeable than as an environment artist.
What is the typical length of a contract?
Varies heavily from company to company. Some hire with intent to train up to mid-level or senior, some only hire temps with 6 month contracts.
How much opportunity is there for entry level artists? Are some roles more competitive to get into than others?
Very high competition in junior levels in almost every part of the industry. Least competitive fields are technical art, VFX and UI.
What software or skill sets do you recommend students learn in order to prepare for working in the industry?
Depends heavily on your position. Only thing that probably just about everyone should know is Photoshop
Do you have any advice for graduating students who want to get into the game industry?
Have a rock-solid portfolio. Not stuff you and everyone else in your class made for school, not mediocre-looking side projects or rehashes of what someone else did. High-quality projects that clearly display your skill and motivation.
winged axle
That last bit, about the portfolio, is great advice that I second
Set yourself apart
jade mesa
Thank you Victor!
stark matrix
Where do y’all even start to look for a 3D artist? Does it start by simply messaging people on Artstation?
tidal moth
linkedin probably a good place to start
green oyster
@stark matrix and polycount forums. all 3d artists I know hang out there or did at some point
stark matrix
Thanks y’all
plucky hatch
were is the chat for help xd?
lilac walrus
every relevant channel is a help channel
steel creek
@stark matrix cgtalk and zerply as well
severe totem
might be a stupid question but how do your contractors/managers/people you work with. react when they hire you and for the first job to do you said something like "oh i don't know how to make this part/thing i need to do some research".
flat gazelle
"Here's the documentation on how to do it. Ask if you have any questions."
severe totem
i see
im currently looking at a job opening that i most likely not take regardless if i qualify because of personal reasons. it was talking about 3d character artists for moba games with what seems to be forgiving requirements. im a generalist and i have more experience in modeling and texturing props, and less in characters though i think i reached an acceptable point for a low poly character. i was wondering if i should consider sending my portfolio and trying to apply for that job knowing that if i get hired ill have to break down that im a generalist etc.
so should i wait and try to make better models with more consistency and impressing results or just try for it and see where it gets me?
flat gazelle
I don't think that's a big worry. You'll get hired based on your portfolio. If it doesn't have great characters that shows that you know how to build them properly you simply won't get hired.
If it's good enough to get you hired, you probably know enough.
severe totem
when pepole look for 3d character artists does it always expected someone that knows how to model, texture(both realistic or hand painted/cartoon textures), and rig?
or is it forgiven if you're strong at modeling but weak at texturing and it gets sorted with shared work or something?
off topic from what you said about the portfolio though it might be showcased like that as well with white detailed models
flat gazelle
I can only speak for AAA so it might be different in smaller studios. A character artist won't ever rig.
But they are expected to take it from concept to finished model.
Textures, materials, sculpts and all.
severe totem
i see. thank you for the help! <3
wary idol
In almost all game dev "fields" research is part of the job
plucky hatch
Does anyone have a discord server meant specifically for people who work on games professionally? I am starting soon at a AAA studio and would like to speak to other people about their experiences at AAA studios
Edited because not sure if I should say the exact studio, reading back some people seem to keep it private
green oyster
cg core maybe?
tidal moth
don't think a unified discord server exists for all AAA people exists
the vetting process alone would be a nightmare
ashen lynx
accepting peoples there would be really a full time job.
pastel estuary
We tried to create one on facebook a few years back, but it ended up being mostly back and forths of "what did you even work on?!" and "that person has not been long enough in A, AA, or AAA to be part of our group"
and loads of silence in between because of all the nda's in place XD
its still up, but last post was in 22 nov. 2017
flat gazelle
Oh! And the trainwreck facebook group this summer! But that was not just AAA either.
pastel estuary
aaaand we shut down one of the slightly bigger ue4 groups this week as well. mainly because it had so much overlap with other groups and generally people ignored the tighter rules in that group.
tidal moth
I think more localized groups work because vetting is local and makes more sense. you can have meetups etc.
tidal moth
sure, because it works as a concept 😉
plucky hatch
I think more localized groups work because vetting is local and makes more sense...
Where would you find those?
plucky hatch
Albany
tidal moth
hard to say if there is a NY group but there might be
afaik east coast isn't as densely populated as the west coast
plucky hatch
Id believe that Cranz. Well with the amount of people that responded here, it seems like this server would be a good enough resource.
If I have any questions
I am a student
So im new
tidal moth
once again, a global group might be a bit out of scope
but for instance I know LA has a local group for industry people. not sure if that's entirely limited to AAA or not
plucky hatch
I guess I wasnt looking for exclusivity, just a place where I could ask questions if I have any because I am about to start soon, have only done contract work for indie teams, and have only had 1 internship at a big company, that was canceled cause of covid
And now soon I am getting thrown into an 8 month coop at one of my favorite companies 😰
plucky hatch
SWE, gameplay/tools position. They haven't told me what I am doing exactly yet though
And i probably wouldnt be able to say anyway I guess lol
quaint quartz
Would remaking Doki Doki Literature Club with voice acting, decision making/choose your own story with semi realistic 3d graphics be a bad idea. Would spending that much money pay off in the end?
tidal moth
I think there's plenty of those kinds of people around here, so I wouldn't hesitate to ask
if it's more technical knowledge you're after I think that's a bit more of an iffy situation
plucky hatch
No not really
tidal moth
what with NDAs and possible in house tech etc.
plucky hatch
Yeah the engine I will be working in is proprietary
tidal moth
but for general questions I'm sure people here would be very willing to answer
plucky hatch
Cool, thanks! Yeah I wasnt sure how many people like that were in this server but seems like there is plenty compared to like, the unity server i was in LOL.
tidal moth
keep in mind that far from everyone here's a professional, so perhaps take the answers with a grain/mountain of salt
plucky hatch
I am very happy I deciding to make some projects last year in UE, all the other offers I got with my unity experience (which I have been using for years) were for mobile games, and having that C++ experience really helped with interviews and getting more interviews for more interesting roles
digital gate
Unreal is a pretty good engine to practice learning engines on IMO. Lots of complexity, quite a bit of unrealisms you won't find elsewhere.
Plus full source access
plucky hatch
Heres a question: is it generally a bad idea to tell strangers where you work? I noticed some people in here seem to actively not bring up studios they work at. Could that somehow break an NDA or are you just trying to like, keep your life private lol
tidal moth
it's not legally a bad thing
plucky hatch
I said it at some point but edited it lol
tidal moth
but you don't want every kid on the block spamming you with shit about where you work
plucky hatch
Ahh I see
digital gate
I don't mention where I work online very often, but I sometimes will tell people IRL
tidal moth
same, it's very much on a need to know basis
digital gate
plenty (in relative terms) of strangers online know where I work and it leads to what you would expect. "Hey can you leak this or that" or "How did you solve this feature"
So I very quickly stopped mentioning it
the people I tell IRL are pretty chill about it, so that's why I will be specific
tidal moth
yeah it can get pretty weird fast
night apex
Can I become a technical artist if I only have a Computer Science Degree?
pastel estuary
you can become one without any degree, as long as you study hard, delve deep into technical art, and make cool stuff.
night apex
Ok thanks. So for a person with Computer Science background and little art background, I'm planning on study shader graphics first. Is that a good starting point, or you would recommend doing something else?
pastel estuary
there are others who are way more technical than me who might be better suited to answer that
tidal moth
sounds a bit like you're going for a role as a render programmer not a technical artist, but I'm sure anyone with a render programming skillset would make an excellent technical artist too
night apex
ok thanks
steady pewter
... well, we may have or we may have not answers.
olive dock
support unreal engine
steady pewter
Yes, more than enough.
steady pewter
🙂 well, you need to start from somewhere.
olive dock
i said one day for a reason, im not gonna try making something that big at first
brave cradle
Hello, if i want to sell a project, where i can post it?
lilac walrus
this server doesn't have a channel to sell projects in
tbh, I don't know where you would sell a project, I don't think there are many buyers
obsidian fossil
Hey everyone, I am in need of some advice. I having been programming games for about a year and a half now and was just worried if I would enjoy other aspects of game development more and I am now stuck worrying if Ill miss out doing something that I love. For example, I have always loved drawing characters and weapons and stuff from my imagination, however I never studied art and went down more of the maths and computer science route which got me into programming. I really would like to specialise in one area but am just worried I havent chosen the correct area, can anyone give me some words of wisdom?
lean pebble
I watched this video the other day, it kinda tackles the issue you're talking about