career-chat

[plucky hatch]

Same as me then, I had a very good job elsewhere and all this was just my hobby, when i realized that a degree was not needed I just did a few years of practice to turn my hobby into a job.
I took about a 50% pay cut and hard to start a bit further down the ladder again, but 5 years later it's all good!

[cinder nimbus]

That’s great to hear! I’m glad it has all worked out for you. They never said the grind would be easy, and you made the hard sacrifices to make your dream a reality, but I bet you are happier now than you ever were in your old career

[plucky hatch]

Yes they were very different (Fashion & Advertising) to now (CGI, Real-time and animation) but i've learnt valuable lessons from both, so no regrets of doing something else for the first 5 years. However very happy with what I do now yes!

[blazing bobcat]

i studied translation, work in igaming, want to work in game development / software in general 😄

[modern crown]

Yea I’m 28 now and trying to get into the industry and a web dev now

[nocturne fern]

I'm 25 and just starting to learn game dev myself, its encouraging to see others doing the same! If anyone ever wanted to collaborate message me whenever, I got a bunch of cool ideas and one project I'm working on now

[serene crystal]

I just got my first gamedev job at 27 and most of my coworkers are older than me

[near heron]

I'm trying to do game jams in Unreal but it's hard to find teams, everyone uses Unity and I don't want to play producer and build the team myself (did that before it's very time-consuming). Thinking of starting a game jam on Itch specifically for Unreal Engine use

[brave forge]

There's literally the epic megajam happening as we speak

Few days left, probably plenty of teams willing to have some extra help

[near heron]

Yeah but everyone was all so serious because of the prizes. I just want to have fun and learn and build something, not feel like it's a job where I have to come into it already an Unreal pro

Plus that only happens once a year I believe

[craggy nacelle]

I've only done one gamejam and I did it with UE, you don't necessarily need a team to do them, I just had my friend who did some models and a few other things

[brave forge]

Yeah I did my own personal game jam last Halloween. Set myself 2 days, Halloween theme made it easy. Larger game jams can be fun, but nothing stopping you doing your own. The global game jam was good, but dunno how it is since covid

As you mentioned, itch has a number of game jams, kennel.nl runs a yearly one

There's the ludum dare (I think it's still going anyway)

Yeah ludum dare, end of September

Scratch that, ludum dare doesn't seem to allow engines, atleast not in all categories.

[woeful iron]

no engines?

everything from scratch?

[brave forge]

I only skimmed, but that's what I made of it

https://ldjam.com/events/ludum-dare/rules

I could be wrong

[woeful iron]

wait where do you see anything about engines

[craggy nacelle]

You’re free to use any tools or libraries to create your game. You’re free to start with any base-code you may have.

[brave forge]

Yeah but it also has to be opensource. I dunno, I'd need to look closer

Ok, I looked again

So there's a category called "the compo"

That's the original and so called "hard mode" which is more restrictive

Seems the main part is more open

That's where I got confused

[craggy nacelle]

I think it might be passable even for "the compo", it doesn't seem to specify it has to be open source, it just says the source of your game needs to be available

[ebon roost]

Hi, I have a question for the pros. I'm a developer who was introduced to a professional architect who is getting into using UE4 for architectural visualization of his work. He wants to hire me for a couple hours a week to help him resolve issues in his projects and to teach him. I have no idea what to charge him as an hourly rate for my consulting / teaching but said I would get back to him. Any advice? Not sure if this chat or the industry-chat is the best place for this question.

[ashen lynx]

@ebon roost Question is, why do you think that we have better idea what to charge, than you ? 15$-300$ covers most of the price range, so likely your number should be somewhere in between.

[ebon roost]

I've never done this sort of freelancing/consulting work before. So, I really don't know what is typical. Thank you for the range though. I guess it kind of narrows it down, lol.

[brave forge]

Yeah, what's your experience level, location, etc. A good place to start would be What would you get in a full time role, then add some multiplier. Multiplier should account for things like unpaid sick leave, insurances, quiet periods where you don't have a contract, etc.

So multiplier could be 2-3x, or more

[ashen lynx]

It depends more on who you are and where you are rather than nature of the work.

[ebon roost]

Thanks

[plucky hatch]

Usual rule of thumb I was always told and have stuck with, for new starters at least:

Minimum/standard wage x 3

[ebon roost]

Thanks!

[olive whale]

Hi guys , how good i need to be for a post in networking for unreal engine , what are the task what should i know etc ?

[spice dagger]

Honestly if you are asking that question you probably don't have enough experience to apply for those types of jobs.

You would likely be expected to know C++ and Blueprint.

As well as thoroughly understand the networking of Unreal Engine both in terms of how it directly affects the architecture of multiplayer games and the way information is transmitted across the network.

[olive whale]

Its not to apply yet its to gain information

[spice dagger]

Learn how to build a Multiplayer game that works. Its a very large field of study and is difficult to summarize directly here.

[olive whale]

I want to try a dedicated server but that seems to basic to even considere to apply for networking so that why im asking

[spice dagger]

Do you know how to build a dedicated server for Unreal?

[olive whale]

Im in the learning phase to try a dedicated server

[spice dagger]

Good. Start with that. Then learn how to use one to create and run a game.

Learn what and how to use Replication.

[olive whale]

I want to try something like ows in later stage

[spice dagger]

Start at the bottom. You wont learn what you need to overnight.

[olive whale]

True

[spice dagger]

It takes a long time to get enough experience and knowledge before being able to apply for jobs.

But you have to start at the bottom.

You cannot expect to get a job with no experience.

Instead, get personal experience and then show how you can apply that to the necessary field you want to participate in when applying for Jobs.

[olive whale]

Yes of course, im working in the networking field switch server firewall but programming that another thing

Thak for the information

[lament obsidian]

Just wanted to say that I've started my internship, as a software developer with no classes on C++ or unreal engine I started learning it by myself while building a foundation with general code, and got a spot at a company in the Netherlands named Virtual builders on their software Unlit, which has been awesome so far... idk just wanted to share that, its basically a 3d architecture software which has been doing very very well in the netherlands ^^

[pastel estuary]

sweet :) Congrats

[lament obsidian]

❤️

[sage sun]

Hi. I've been working on a solo project for a long time. I had big dreams back then but reality kicked in in recent times so here I am. I've been very comfortable with blueprints. I was make good use of interfaces, function libraries, macros, and simply anything blueprints offer and I was careful with dependencies and general rules. A couple of months ago I started to learn C++ in Unreal Engine. I'm able to do anything I'm able to do in blueprints, and more due to the nature of C++. But since I was solo, my only reference point was Unreal code or plugins. In my opinion, I'm not too advanced, but I'm not terrible too. I can make complex gameplay systems such as jigsaw / Tarkow-style inventory systems, complex crafting systems, and such. But I still believe I have plenty of things to learn. So here are my questions:

1- What are the chances of me finding a programming-related remote job?
2- What should be my expectations?
3- What should I prioritize to improve my chances of getting decent jobs?
4- Do you have any suggestions?

[woeful iron]

I mean if you really have a good understanding of the unreal API as you say and it's more the "advanced/better" code that you need to work on, you could for sure aim for a junior programmer position. Whether or not that will be able to be remote depends on what you want to work on and also often in what country you live.
To improve your chances, definitely make some showcase of the things you made, a website with some videos or explanations or something. Depending on what specific kind of game programming you wanna do you could make some projects aimed at that, e.g. if you wanna be a gameplay programmer, show some "finished" prototype games or something. Just something that people can gauge your experience from. It's always nice if your code is available on github to see as well.
Not sure what you want to know regarding 2. and 4.

[plucky hatch]

Hi, any advice or tips for a beginner on what to include in an internship game art portfolio?

[pastel estuary]

check the "killer portfolio or portfolio killer" GDC videos on youtube

[plucky hatch]

Thanks! Ill have a look

[chilly sundial]

"I found a team"
"Proceeds to describe themselves as part of it"

Methinks this is advertising and not good faith sharing <@&213101288538374145>

[fossil yacht]

no its not a advertising

sorry for that i can delete that

[pastel estuary]

its offering a service, so it should probably be somewhere on the job board.

you can read the #instructions on how to do so

[fossil yacht]

I am truly sorry <@&213101288538374145> Please delete this message if there is any trouble!

[pastel estuary]

just did, check out #instructions on how to post on the job board :)
Also just in case, you might also want to check the #rules

[fossil yacht]

Thank you!

really SORRY 😍

i was blindd didnt seen the job board

[pastel estuary]

no worries

[merry adder]

He posted adv into #volunteer-projects, btw. The message doesn't fit that category.

[exotic axle]

Are there remote game dev jobs available for UE4/5 (BP only) with two years of experience in the engine, 5 years experience in game dev and 12 years experience in coding?

[woeful iron]

Of course

I see plenty of remote ue dev jobs with lower requirements on linkedin

[fossil yacht]

Sorry, I can delete that if I was wrongfully posted.
I just removed it; sorry again, guys.
And I apologize for any trouble I made. (I deserved a ban and kicked if I already broke the rule twice. Please no mercy)
I was lost, but my project is now for free, somewhat suitable for the hobby. (For now, we just want to earn some names in the indie game industry; we will not ask for money before we have enough works to show. But making money in the future)
What section should I post?

[woeful iron]

is it a released game that you want to show off?

#released if it is or #work-in-progress if still working on it, if that's what you want

[fossil yacht]

It is a game localization(translation) service.
Offering Japanese and Chinese translations.
I was looking for some indie developers to help them localize their games and projects to Asian languages.

Hmmm.....Can I DM you with the article(seems like a adv) I just wrong posted? Please help me find the right place to post.

[brave forge]

If it's a service you are providing, it'd go under hire a freelancer or hire a studio.

[fossil yacht]

❤️ Thank you for the reply. I very much appreciate it.
It is my translation team providing a free service, so I think the "hire a studio" section is the right place I am going to post, I presume? (I want to be sure already wrong posted twice😂 )

[woeful iron]

why is your team providing a free service though

that just makes me think it's gonna be a shit service

[fossil yacht]

earn some good names first 😂 then make moneys

[fossil yacht]

I know it feels like we suck, but it can help skilled indie developers who have long been ignored and can't afford localized service.
If one of the developers we helped is successful, we can share that joy with others. If players like that game and earn good reviews prove our quality is reliable, we will start to consider making money.
We cannot ask for the pay without enough examples. It is our way.

[digital cosmos]

Would anyone be interested in working together on a game ? I was thinking of making a action rpg survival game

[wary idol]

Should probably post it on our job boards, take a look at #instructions on how to do that

Also take a look at #rules

[shrewd geyser]

Post that on #volunteer-projects

[digital cosmos]

Ya I did sorry for that

[shrewd geyser]

People really don’t really the rules. In this case not even the 5 previous messages.

[vagrant bramble]

:triangular_flag_on_post: NeoUM_YouTube#2204 received strike 1. As a result, they were muted for 10 minutes.

[steel creek]

not looks like, is.

Help me get better in my development career by investing in my kickstarter is so 2015.

[woeful iron]

Should this be removed by <@&213101288538374145> ?

[barren shadow]

@distant reef This is not the correct place for such content, nor do we allow any crowd funding type links

[distant reef]

https://tenor.com/view/scoobydoo-zoinks-shaggy-surprised-surprise-gif-5610126

wrong sever.

[lament obsidian]

But like no trolling aside

[woeful iron]

is there a second message coming? 😅

[lament obsidian]

is me finishing school (mbo4 i have no clue what that is anywhere else) then getting my bachelors (4 year study) on game development while building a portfolio with projects and scrum contests worth it? even if I didnt do the portfolio stuff

[woeful iron]

it depends on the person

[lament obsidian]

Because I always can't help but think ya know what if I don't make it, is building my information through school and internships and just... online. Enough?

[pastel estuary]

and the education.

[woeful iron]

if you feel like it's not what you want, don't force yourself to do it

having a degree does make the initial job search easier imo though

also if you want to work outside EU at some point, getting a visa is way easier with a degree

for me, I think my higher education was definitely worht it

I learned a lot, made a bunch of projects and enjoyed myself

[lament obsidian]

Well RN i'm just learning Jquery, PHP, C# .net, Css, Html, Javascript and a bit of API's in my study, but I really wanna be a game dev (whole reason i'm doing 4 years on bachelors degree after these 2 more years)

I just don't see them being relevant for my possible game dev career

[pastel estuary]

it helps with learning things in a save environment and not only the gamedev stuff you'd think.
how to deal with team members, deadlines, handling things you dont like, how to network, aspects of the development cycle you never knew about, etc.

[woeful iron]

if you find a job that pleases you without that degree, there's no reason for you to get it if you don't want it

[lament obsidian]

I support it with 'its good to build a foundation on multiple stuff so you know how coding in general works' or 'its a good foundation' but is it actually relevant

[woeful iron]

but imo it's useful in general though

[lament obsidian]

I dont dislike them -maybe only PHP lol- but aside from that the only thing i've really had to do up until now (not counting my internship) was deadlines and a bit of the development cycle

[pastel estuary]

well, its mbo, what'd you expect XD

[lament obsidian]

So like I enjoy it (for the most part), I enjoy college but will doing 4 years of bachelor degree game development study be enough to kickstart my career?

[pastel estuary]

not exactly high science over here in the netherlands

[woeful iron]

no idea what mbo is

[lament obsidian]

true xd

[woeful iron]

is that secondary education still?

oh

[lament obsidian]

eh its basically like the failed Bachelor's

[woeful iron]

middelbaar beroepsonderwijs

[pastel estuary]

yea

aka average

XD

[lament obsidian]

yeah

well I did Havo, but corona fucked me over twice

so MBO rn is just... two fingers in the nose, but I need it to do HBO

[pastel estuary]

i'd say, enjoy your student time while you are young. you wont get it back.

[woeful iron]

I guess that's what we call BSO in belgium

[pastel estuary]

there is more in life than just a carreer. heck, you are barely at an age where you have figured out yourself.

[lament obsidian]

Havo met VWO advies but I don't intend to sit 8 hours a day on homework for 8 classes i don't like

like if it were all classes about coding I would but not for biology and... french etc. ;w;

[woeful iron]

Higher eduction is also useful as a general "maturing process" imo as well

it's not all about the education

[pastel estuary]

if there is anything I learned from all those classes, there is always something that'll come back when you least expect it.

[lament obsidian]

true

[pastel estuary]

i'd just counter the boring studying with trying to get as much fun out of life as possible.

something I regret not doing and making up for now.

but, thats just me

[lament obsidian]

I do, I enjoy college, finally gotten out of my shell since I started it

Do you recommend anything regarding game development in terms of studying though? I looked into it but dont know for sure yet which school I'd want to study Bachelors (HBO) at

Just assuming ur dutch rn xd

[pastel estuary]

its been more than 20 years ago since I attended gamedev school in the dutcherlands, and it was the first college to provide such a thing, and all I did was make flash animations and websites.

[woeful iron]

this is what I did, in belgium though https://www.digitalartsandentertainment.be/

was pretty fun

[pastel estuary]

but a few of my friends either went to breda, or are teaching at breda.

[woeful iron]

a lot of people from the thing I did do go to breda afterwards to get a master

[lament obsidian]

https://www.buas.nl/games?gclid=Cj0KCQjw39uYBhCLARIsAD_SzMS7X31ut5h-VmxfXruEXXNRNLyx5V4_qAkha-8JIJu4eVcBQvLSyPQaAlirEALw_wcB

this one?

[pastel estuary]

iirc yes. CC: @merry roost

[merry roost]

👋

[pastel estuary]

https://giphy.com/gifs/theoffice-the-office-tv-business-ethics-l8ooOxhcItowwLPuZn

[merry roost]

haha, what are we talking about? :)

[pastel estuary]

Ceebs was wondering about gamedev schools in dutchyland, you went to BUAS right?

[lament obsidian]

Dutchyland should be the official name ngl

[woeful iron]

Robbie typing out a whole essay

[lament obsidian]

And i'm all in for it xd

[pastel estuary]

"It all started when I was a wee boy"

[lament obsidian]

Genuinely curious, the longer the more informative no?

[woeful iron]

copy pasting his whole thesis into discord

[lament obsidian]

btw for all that its worth i'm currently doubting between HKU and BUas

Cuz they got guaranteed internship places for both national and international game studio's

[merry roost]

Yeah, it's great! It's a very good choice if you want to get into the industry. You can see BUas graduates moving into the European industry a lot.
Breda itself is also getting more of an industry around it through some smaller and bigger game/VR companies. Twirlbound, Infinity Labs, Stickylabs, LFG Studio Red and Stitch Heads (where I work at) to name a few.
There are good connections with a lot of companies to get you internships etc.

All in all you should not expect a game education to be able to teach you all available techniques, because the industry is just evolving INSANELY fast. But you can work more structured on your own development and working on team projects (releasable small games)

Where BUas is more triple a oriented, HKU is more for the experimental developer. It's a bit more like indie, allowing for more creativity. BUas tends to go for more fidelity, maybe at the cost of that freedom of thinking.
You can probably make good conclusions for both those educations.

[lament obsidian]

How do you suggest getting into your own development/team projects outside of school?

[pastel estuary]

Robbie: just ask Luos for random tasks, he has too many.

[lament obsidian]

Thanks, thats definitely good food for thought, I honestly don't know what kinda developer I exactly want to be so once I do I hope that can help me make a good choice : )

[lament obsidian]

People would actually give you random tasks here if you asked for them? xd

[merry roost]

lolol, tbf idk, I just did everything through uni, and got all job experience afterwards through contacts from uni

[pastel estuary]

Nah, I tend to ask Robbie for all sorts of things. he smart

[lament obsidian]

is uni worth it?

because RN i'm doing MBO (corona fked me over twice) and after that I want to HBO and probably (if i need it by then) take the 1 year masters class from BUas. Never really considered University before...

[merry roost]

I think you do have to start as an artist, programmer or designer, but after that I know BUas also gives you a lot of room to set out your own study route. It's almost all you'll be doing after the first year. Make a plan for yourself and follow it. Then they determine whether you learned enough from that (approx)

Feel free to add me if you want more info, going back to work now.

[lament obsidian]

They still like teach stuff theoretically right?

Sure would love that, appreciate your time : )

[woeful iron]

dno about Buas but this school I had 2 theoretical exams, all the rest was projects

the theoretical ones were maths and physics

[lament obsidian]

I mean like, do you sit down in a class and learn from a teacher explaining stuff

[merry roost]

Basics for sure, but as I mentioned, the industry advances too quickly. For example there is no teacher that can teach you how to use midjourney for concept art, it's literally only been released 2 months ago or something. So they can't keep up. Basics will always be the same, but the execution changes all the time.

[lament obsidian]

I'm very comfortable with that way of teaching because I am very comfortable asking stuff when I don't know the answer

Like if I dont understand the answer he gives on a problem I have I'll ask 'why is this the answer' xd

[merry roost]

first year yes, later years it's a lot of self study. Classes become opt in. Which you will want to participate in based on your study plan

[lament obsidian]

or she* lol

[lament obsidian]

Thats good, thanks, good luck at work now! Again, I appreciate ur time haha

[merry roost]

Well the issue is, there is about 80% of this work I feel where there almost never is a simple "this is the answer"

[lament obsidian]

Just add me back/dm me anytime you have more time! Would love to ask some more stuff

Thats what I like about coding luckily xd

[merry roost]

even then x) there are just times where your going to be discussing about the best way to tackle something. And you know it's going to be rough if 3 programmers have to be thinking about something x)

[lament obsidian]

Thats valid

[pastel estuary]

coder 1: makes code
coder 2: this code sucks. changes it
coder 3: this cose sucks. changes it
coder 1: wtf. its just a hello world.

[lament obsidian]

Process of trial and elimination until you get enough pieces that work to get that lightbulb in your head

atleast for me so far

[woeful iron]

I once wrote a 17 page document analysis to figure something out that was like maybe 20 lines in code

good times

[lament obsidian]

my first week of internship I worked 2 1/2 days on some blueprint stuff

and then ended up not needing a SINGLE node for what I had to do

just to change mesh later which was also like 5 nodes

[lament obsidian]

those damned sockets and pivot points ;w;

[next kettle]

Added you in regards to a job opportunity! @boreal ruin

[fathom ruin]

@lament obsidian if you want to know anything regarding the games education of BUAS, i can help you. I'm currently a Y3 student there :)

[slim topaz]

Hello, a small question I do not quite see through hiel because my English is not the best.
but if I am looking for someone füs my car in the ue5 how and where do I do that?

[lilac walrus]

What is "manday" in this context? Are you using it to mean how much you're earning per day?

I also assume it's in USD

I've seen people in games earning as little as 16-17,000 CZK (per month), which is kinda just sad, but it varies by employer

[frosty geode]

Yes, it's USD and manday is 8 times your hourly rate or 1/20 of your monthly rate, but it's the most typical metric used by contractors. Also, while your statement is correct, it typically doesn't involve programmers.

[woeful iron]

is this as a fulltime employee or as freelancer?

is the 170 pre or post taxes

but from first impression this would not seem bad to me for Czechia, not that I'm extremely familiar with the wages there

[lilac walrus]

FYI, a 'man day' is the theoretical amount of work achievable by a person in a single day, it's generally used a measurement rule of thumb (this will take X man-days to complete). I've never heard this being applied to refer to day-rates for contractors.

The 16-17,000 CZK was for engineers, and I'm not kidding, but it will also go much higher to 65-80,000CZK.

$170USD per day would be above the norm that I'd expect from the Czech games industry, but if you have specialist knowledge you tend to have bargaining power.

at the end of the day, the games industry pays badly compared to other similar industries, and the Czech games industry pays badly compared to it's geographical neighbours :/

[frosty geode]

It wasn't "bad" per se before the inflation of this year, but it was kinda borderline from me. You could get more pretty easily elsewhere (as in 1.3x - 2x more) and I've received several significantly bigger offers even with the UE/CPP combo. Would like to compare it with others though. So far no-one is sharing.

[woeful iron]

well I don't live in Czechia, nor am I a freelancer, nor have I 10 years of experience, so can't really share anything relevant

by elsewhere you mean still in Czechia?

[frosty geode]

Yeah, Czechia, just outside of gamedev (say c# developer, typescript developer, fullstack dev, angular dev, that kind of gigs).

[woeful iron]

well that can definitely be a big boost

I went up more than 40% in pay when I changed from game dev to backend dev

[frosty geode]

FYI, I use MD only because every headhunter that has ever contacted me has used it for the pay definition and it's how my current pay is calculated in my current contract. So, yeah...

[topaz jungle]

hey i know this is offtopic for this channel but does anyone here use github? or has experience with it?

[woeful iron]

you might want to check #source-control

where it would be on topic

[shrewd geyser]

yes, for about 10 or 12 years... and going... lost count...

[topaz jungle]

would be nice if you could help me there then its just a simple question anyone could answer under 10 secs

[shrewd geyser]

but yeah... not for this chat... dm if you need help

[royal lintel]

no, read the channel description

[bitter rampart]

many thanks for quick reply. Deleted the message and thanks!

[barren lotus]

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/epic-games_join-epic-games-today-see-our-latest-career-activity-6973654259477159936-VdOS

[mint grove]

I'm 9 months into my 2 year game design BA program at Fullsail and I'm wondering if there are any internships open?

[woeful iron]

just in general?

or where?

[radiant tundra]

Hello, is someone from Canada?? can i ask for some question from abroad. I'm trying to get a work in Canada because I want to move there. I got a call from a recruiting agency saying is easier to get a PR then find a job there. What should i do? shouldnt i get a visa sponser from the company that accept me or the other way around?

[carmine oar]

Hello everyone! I hope you are all having a good day! I was wondering if someone could give me portfolio advice. Can I post it here for feedback?

I am pretty new to all this and probably far off where I need to be, but advice would be nice 😊

[noble hare]

anyone else see the UE c++ internship ads on ig?

guess when all you google all day is UE the algorithm knows 👀

[hybrid rain]

there are some sdks on the marketplace to practice an make things if you dont have your own assets

modding is a good way to have work published used an advertised

if that doesn't suit your wants or storage space there are alot of fan Remakes for games that are open source there code an assets to there community's

if your an artist use artstation if your programmer use github

[carmine oar]

I just wanted people to review my portfolio

[green oyster]

yeah you can

[dull hare]

Hey guys, hope somebody can point me towards the right direction. I'm trying to find a way to send the Manny bot a DM (I'm hiring for a permanent position - Lead UE5 developer). Everytime I send him a DM, it says Your message could not be delivered. This is usually because you don't share a server with the recipient or the recipient is only accepting direct messages from friends.

[steady pewter]

Like, have you disabled being direct messaged (DM)?

Also tickets go to #969360633386655744

[dull hare]

Looks like I may have disabled DMs before when I joined this server. All good now, thanks for the help!

[true valley]

hey guys! this might be a stupid question but i was wondering, are there studios out there that will hire and allow fully remote work, even from another country (if not continent)? or the only option to work like that is freelancing? im trying to get in the industry as character artist and i am pretty new in the industry

[lilac walrus]

it happens, but it is quite rare - for a junior it's very unlikely

[true valley]

thank you very much

then comes my second question, any advice to start as a freelancer?😅 tips, things you guys wish you knew before, anything useful

[lilac walrus]

for a newcomer to the industry, I would not recommend it at all - you want practical experience and the best place to get that is going to be in a studio environment

when people hire freelancers they want people who know what they are doing and can operate without much in the way of support

[true valley]

i completely get that and agree, the issue is that there aren’t studios in the area where i live and i cannot move at the moment

[craggy nacelle]

Then you either have to give up on this, or get the experience they want somehow. It's not to say it's impossible for you to get work as jr/freelance with remote at this point, just that it may be difficult is all.

If you want to pursue it then the direction seems clear - either figure out how you can move, or start doing things that will give you the experience that is needed (like building your own games or whatever)

[lilac walrus]

character art is probably the single most competitive field to get into, IMHO, realistically the only option is to build up studio experience, and with that contacts and a professional portfolio - it wouldn't be impossible to go freelance without it, but I would expect it to be extremely difficult to get decent work

[true valley]

and how do you know your work is getting decent enough? don’t get me wrong, i would love to work in a studio, i just can’t right now and im trying to find other ways to live of this

[lilac walrus]

I don't know if you can know. Without an environment that's giving you meaningful feedback and actual work to benchmark yourself against I don't know what you'd realistically measure yourself against

in all honesty, realistically I think you're either going to have to move, or shelve the idea of working in character art

[true valley]

ok i get what you are saying and i appreciate your honesty

thank you guys for your answers, i will find a way😫

[barren lotus]

Epic has a character art internship, it says multiple locations and although both cities listed are USA the students page linked at the bottom shows a bunch of interns working remotely (not to mention Epic has offices in a bunch of cities). Still worth applying and bringing it up with whoever you speak to first. https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/careers/jobs/4630500004

[green oyster]

You can maybe find some small time gigs working for indie projects...but can't expect to progress very much. A few years at a studio will do wonders

[true valley]

thank you! i will surely look into it

[true valley]

yeah that’s for sure, i will think about it cause you are right

[still shard]

Wow what a bunch of downer replies... What everyone is saying here is true, but you can definitely improve your craft while you work on your situation

• Find a community of like minded individuals that are equally passionate about character art as you, and are willing to give constructive criticism on each other's work without pulling punches. Forums, Discord, Facebook etc. are potential places to find these groups

• Study anatomy, and get a foundation of 2D character art as well, understanding musculature and how the body works is key for making realistic characters, and to know what rules you can break when making characters that don't follow our world's rules

• Find inspiration, have goals, external motivation is great, but you should strive to always have an intrinsic motivation to drive you forward

• never stop practicing, create art as often as you can without burning out. Also keep in mind to not just practice for the sake of practice, but review after every piece, think critically about what you could do better, what looks weird and what you can do to fix it on the next piece

• Some good old fashioned schooling is good, courses like cg master academy is expensive, but it's taught by industry veterans, it's a great way to take skills to the next level. Similarly, a traditional art school can be a great opportunity to get formal training, and if you do well and play your cards right, a way to get a foot in the door in the actual gaming industry

Let's also not lie to ourselves, this is not going to be easy, character art is extremely competitive, and you need to shine far brighter than the competition to get anywhere in the industry, which is going to be a struggle coming from your current position

[pastel estuary]

@keen pawn be awfully awesome if you read the #rules when joining, they'd point you to the job-channels, where #instructions tells you how to use those channels :)

[round radish]

Don't be silly. People looking for/advertising work heed no rules! Sigh

[mental gazelle]

I am looking at Epic Game's job board -- it looks like none of the positions are remote eligible? Are they not very remote friendly?

[round radish]

They've got a lot of people working remotely for them - but it's mostly subcontractors.

I guess they want the actaul employees inhouse?

[plucky hatch]

It depends on the job, it's very unusual to have junior remote jobs.

[lethal forge]

Hello everyone, is there any unreal game play programmer who can help me clearing some doubts regarding career as gameplay programming and resume building.

[lilac walrus]

depends on what those doubts are, but gameplay programming is one of the easier roles to get into

[spice dagger]

Ask the questions you need answering and those that can will provide a reply.

[deep mural]

I have questions regarding game programming, should I join a pretty small dev team with little to no pay when I graduate high school to get years of experience so I can apply to bigger roles in the future? Should I get under a contract? I want to get my career going ASAP, I am planning to be PRETTY good at cpp before I graduate hs (junior currently) and I definently think it's above possible to do

[lilac walrus]

just get as much practical experience in as possible - so long as you're actively making features you'll be progressing well

doing small indie stuff isn't a terrible idea, so long as that team is aware you're relatively green and might not be delivering the best work

[deep mural]

Thanks

[lethal forge]

Actuality i am preparing for game play programming remote(Unreal specifically ) roles there is requirement of mathematics and physics in most of job postings so from where should i start, how much mathematics and physics is required, Can u tell me some resources for it?

[brave forge]

https://gamemath.com/

[lethal forge]

Basically i need some kind of roadmap and guidance to crack unreal gameplay roles

[brave forge]

This book has been an invaluable source of information for me for over a decade

[lethal forge]

Oh I see

So actually in requirements most of them have similar requirements
C++
Unreal engine experience
Dsa
Maths & physics

I have decent knowledge of c++ and unreal but lack in maths and dsa

[brave forge]

Generally speaking you need a decent grounding in linear algebra, geometry and trigonometry as your starting point. This is vectors, dot products, matrices, rotations, angles etc.

You don't need like theoretical physics degree, but some basic familiarity with some of the equations to calculate acceleration, ballistic trajectory etc is helpful

Depends on the role, but typically that's a good foundation for a game programmer

[lethal forge]

Hmmm got it

[round radish]

I haven't come across the need to know about matrices yet. Well, more than a brief overview. You shouldn't need to know the math or what each index represents.

[lethal forge]

Hmm

[lilac walrus]

you use matrices all the time

(Transforms)

[round radish]

Same with quaternions, you just need to know a sort of "this is what htey do", but the underlying math is extremely complex and totally useless to know because the engine is likely to do everything you need.

[brave forge]

The math behind matrices isn't particularly complex, learning how they can be composed, decomposed and multiplied is very valuable.

[round radish]

Yes, you use them, but how often do you actually use a matrix type? Or play around with the internals?

[lilac walrus]

if you want to be a gameplay programmer you should know matrices and quats

people scripting in blueprint won't really need to know the math, but quats are almost guaranteed to come up if you're working in native code

matrices less so, but still, not overly complicated, and very useful to know

[lethal forge]

I also I think understanding working of those things are necessary.

Any thoughts on data structure and algorithms how deep should I go ?

[round radish]

It's much more important to understand how and when to use them to solve a problem, rather than understand how the internals work. Can it be useful? Sure, but not necessary.

[lethal forge]

May be

[lilac walrus]

in terms of algorithms, common sorting algos and things like common pathfinding are good places to start

[round radish]

Learning the O values for algorithms is good idea too

And how to evaluation your own code in that sense.

[brave forge]

I gotta be honest, I treat quats as a black box, I know why they should be used and the problems they solve, but I don't have a good intuition on the actual math of it. Matrices however, I do, and matrices are used all the time for nesting transforms and through the render pipeline. Learning the actual math of a matrix isn't very big of a task

[lilac walrus]

aye - you see I don't use matrices very much, but the last game we shipped here was 6dof (a space game), so quats were essential

you don't strictly know which you're going to be using and when, so having working knowledge in advance is something employers are going to be looking for

[round radish]

I kinda feel that learning the internals of these things (beyond a certain point) is more an interview technique than an actual requirement.

There are exceptions, of course.

[brave forge]

Oh I use quats all the time. I just don't have the intuition on the internal operation of it. Matrices though I am fairly familiar with the internals as they aren't quite as scary to me. Used them for both writing render code as well as custom NNs

[lilac walrus]

I'm not sure anyone really intuitively knows quats, they're just magic math

[brave forge]

True

[lilac walrus]

even the folks who originally came up with it 🥲

[round radish]

Haha, yes.

[brave forge]

As I said, black box for quats is fine imo, that's how I do it.

Knowing WHY they should be used though is important

[round radish]

I have a vague understanding that they're a vector with rotation about that vector, but the actual values aren't that at all and the math is magic.

The rotation is encoded somehow and all kinds of fun things. And then UE does it differently to everyone else or something.

Or there was one data structure they did differently. Maybe it was planes? Shrug

[turbid dawn]

Hi guys! I am learning about game development for about 5 years now. I am also working with a few of my friends on a game for an active IP.

I would love to work within the industry as a game designer however, I cannot find a role fitting requirements (Since they need about 2+ years of actual work).
I am also based in UK so there are a lot of opportunities.

Can anyone recommend me a place which is hiring for such a position and, also what are things I need to know to have that position?

Thanks in advance

[ashen lynx]

@turbid dawn apply everywhere. Something will proc.

[turbid dawn]

My problem is that I cannot really relocate from one place to another that easily. Do companies expect you to be there for the first month of employment?

As in physically working rather than remotely

[ashen lynx]

I think in 2022 companies dont even expect you to be human, not even speaking about physically being there.

You might as well be a decent script with a job.

[turbid dawn]

I mean it sounds like a plan

I just need to work on my portfolio

And never ending curve of learning stuff

[spice dagger]

You are more likely to get a job as QA before full fledged Game Designer if you have no experience.

This isnt an unusual path for people who want to be GDs to take.

[turbid dawn]

Never thought about it this way, thanks for the tip 🙂

But then what do I need to learn in order to be a QA?

[spice dagger]

Look up some QA positions, they will tell you exactly what they expect.

QA is very entry level friendly for the most part.

[lilac walrus]

For the most part, junior roles do tend to be on-site (though depending on what you do this is relaxing in recent years). Moreover, the UK industry is large; there are almost certainly studios within commuting distance to you.

[crystal basin]

I highly reccomend this linear algebra playlist.
||https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZHQObOWTQDPD3MizzM2xVFitgF8hE_ab||
It's production quality is godly.
It is doesn't strictly teach you how to solve each and every problem, but it lays exceptional fundamentals for whats next to come

[shut token]

<@&213101288538374145> 👆 Spam

4 channels

[gentle pewter]

@late shard please don't crosspost and spam. Use the job board for recruitment ads like this, see #instructions for how to

[vagrant bramble]

:triangular_flag_on_post: urielopp#0785 received strike 1. As a result, they were muted for 10 minutes.

[halcyon skiff]

Any thoughts on whether not courses are worth it? Particularly looking at that humble bundle "The Complete Unity/Unreal Online Course"?

Would that be useful for someone with programming experience trying to get into game dev?

[modern crown]

I know people stay away from gamedev.tv

[craggy nacelle]

All that content for 30 eur? Yeah it's probably worth it

I mean it might not be the best videos ever and I've not watched them, but if the topics they cover interest you, it'll surely get you started at the very least. I doubt humble would sell total garbage

[steady pewter]

Seems mostly vr/ar/ml but, frankly most of these can be covered just by casual browsing on internet. Good value for these money, but you can skip if you want. Can't comment about the screwunity courses tho.

[deep mural]

I've actually found a BUNCH of simple C++ playlists on youtube if you are interested

[halcyon skiff]

Apparently they sell all their course for $500.

You are right though that is pretty cheap. I spent way more in seconds on virtual goods.

[halcyon skiff]

Sure, I've dabbled in a bit of C++ already. I guess I'm really looking for something like go through this and you will know how to use unreal engine type of deal. Or learn aspects of game dev.

[shrewd geyser]

If you are really looking for an all round course on Unreal and C++ I recommend the Tom Looman's course. It's usually taken as the best online course out there, or at least one of the bests.

that said, yeah for 30 bucks I would say that it is probably worth it.

[deep mural]

best UE2 courses at gamedev.tv

[shrewd geyser]

My name is dpr and I took a gamedev.tv course. 😄

[shrewd geyser]

First step is to accept.

[halcyon skiff]

The comments on GFS video on the humble bundle seems to say courses are out of date and not so high quality. hmm =/

[drowsy cape]

If I want to release builds for playtesters, where is the best place to do it? I've been looking at steamworks but the startup fee is a bit unappealing as I'm just trying to send it to my friends (and don't want them to have to download a new file every time)

[round radish]

You ideally want some sort of VCS like perforce... but not perforce. Because setting up perforce to share something with your friends is beyond bloat.

Maybe set up an azure dev ops server with a svn server or something? Probably also a bit extreme, but still.

Mega simple solution: Add your project to dropbox without zipping it. Copy changes / all files to your dropbox when you update, theirs will download the update automatically.

[drowsy cape]

Ahh okay cool

Thank you

[round radish]

This is probably more relevant to #packaging than #career-chat too. 😛

[craggy nacelle]

Yeah if you're just sending it to friends or such, just do a packaged build from UE, zip it, and put the file to dropbox, google drive, whatever. Don't need anything fancy for it

[drowsy cape]

Ah thank you (so many channels I lose track sometimes)

[still nymph]

Steam should be free if its not public. Pretty sure you can upload a build and share private test keys (you need to request them). If you want it to show up publicly, then you need to pay the startup fee

[shut token]

You still need to pay the $100 to upload your build.

[lost forge]

Hey there! Hope everyone is doing good So I'm currently trying to get a entry level job for UE but every job I look at wants studio experience or 1+ year experience so I just wanted to know what's the best way to start? Do I take up unpaid gigs to build up experience & learn more? Currently I have just done a game dev studio course in UE & have 2 very simple starter games released that were made in Unity. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!

[brazen citrus]

hi

[woeful iron]

I think making some small showcase projects to build a portfolio is the best thing to do, and then just start applying and learn from the application process. Don't always think you need all requirements listed on jobs, it's more often than not a wishlist.

[hazy rover]

I'm new here! Is anyone looking for game developers? I'm a Business Development Manager at Smash Button Games. We can absolutely help you with any game-related projects and it would be a pleasure for me to send over our sample portfolio to anyone interested. Just shoot me a dm so we can set an appointment call. Let me know.

thanks for letting me know Laura! ❤️

[orchid ferry]

Hello, excuse me, do you know how to post an announcement via the #hire-a-studio channel? Is there a command line for the bot, do i need to contact a moderator?

[orchid ferry]

Oh sorry, didn't pay attention, thanks, have a nice day

[unkempt hearth]

Does anyone know the best place to hire level designers? It seems like the same set of people post here and on the ue forum and I’m stuck with a small pool of talent. Surely there’s more than a couple dozen level designers in the world looking for freelance work.

[vagrant bluff]

you could look at more LD focused forums and websites.

[unkempt hearth]

Do you know any off the top of your head? I’m new to hiring

But I see so many marketplace assets and indie games with stunning graphics

[vagrant bluff]

off the top of my head theres a LD subreddit

[unkempt hearth]

Is there anything more formal for gamedev?

[vagrant bluff]

there are dozens of gamedev discords

[unkempt hearth]

Oh believe me, I’ve looked in all of them and worked with many. Been scammed like 5+ times and only found 1 amazing level designer but he recently became super busy.

[brave forge]

Theres usually regional sites & groups too. Try reaching out to local UE meetup groups etc

[unkempt hearth]

I live in the middle of nowhere 😭

[deep mural]

Rip

[woeful iron]

maybe consider sites like linkedin or other recruitment sites instead of just discord?

if this is for a serious job

[ebon oyster]

maybe you could try looking into specific modding communities? i know the mapcore community has some good modders that design customs levels for counter strike

[green oyster]

How about artstation? A lot of artists there

[unkempt hearth]

afaik there’s no “looking for work” section there. Whenever I look up environments and see a good artist and contact them, they are always employed.

[green oyster]

Well most of them would be employed, but a few are interested in freelance and a few are available

[lilac walrus]

most job sites will, but it's also where people will be looking unfortunately

[woeful iron]

you can post jobs on artstation for sure though

we used to do it all the time

oh wait you said you can post listing

[woeful iron]

this is not really a place to promote your job postings

[sonic canyon]

Hey there! I have a question that goes to every developer, be it animator, 3d artist, programmer, etc.

What would you like to see in a prototype of a game (maybe 10-20 minutes of gameplay) that would excite you and consider joining the team?

A friend and I are currently working on a Prototype of a game that is planned to get financed with kickstarter (and other funding programs) later on.
Currently we are 2 people, and I would like to make a "PrototypeV1" for developers only, with which we hope to grow the team to 5. With which we then would work on the Prototype for showcase on kickstarter, etc.

ps: just to explain what kind of game it is (this is not meant as a "promotion"), but just so you can picture it. Its a 3rd person dark fantasy story game with hack & slash combat (think darksiders etc).

[karmic bronze]

guys do you know where can i find people like animators because i have been trying to make a game but i could not find anyone

[woeful iron]

check #instructions to postin #hire-a-freelancer or #volunteer-projects

[topaz wing]

Is it frowned upon in the industry if you switch jobs after your initial contract for 3 months period ends?
My 3 month test-contract is coming to an end and my current employer already offered me another one. In the last month I also applied to 2 companies because then I was not sure what is going to happen when my contract ends. I ended up with 2 offers - my current employer's and company Z's.

Company Z offers more money and fully remote work.

I'm wavering to accept Z offer for two reasons,

• Things I don't know about them/things they won't mention - like worklife balance for example.
  I really like it at my current work, the climate is very relaxed and if not to my crippling neurosis there would be next to no stress.

• if such job hopping isn't frowned upon by recruiters/companies

If you've been in similar place, or just want to share some advice, it is much appreciated.

[lilac walrus]

if your contract ends, it ends - you are under no obligation to continue if you don't want to, for any reason

[topaz wing]

Good point, I never thought about this way. My previous employers along with some of my friends (who all work in webdev) often metioned that hoping jobs too much might get me in a really though spot hence the question

[plucky hatch]

Indeed, it's not frowned upon at all, it's very common to use the new job offer to leverage against staying in the current company.

If you have been offered more money elsewhere have them raise to match it or beat it.

[deep mural]

Just curious, how much knowledge of programming do you need to put it on your portfolio? Technically I know visual basic and java and cpp (even though I made simple projects in vb and java)

[topaz wing]

I had close to none in my portoflio and (probably because of that) I landed very few interviews, - but when I did I mostly got offers.
I spent majority of my time reading various cs and cpp papers instead of actually programming - which is bizarre now that I think about it,
but it made me look way better during interview than before interview i guess because I had basically nothing relevant to show.

[limber sluice]

I will be doing my Computer Games Design course at Staffordshire Uni and Id like to build my portfolio during my first year and start applying for some possible summer internships. I have played around with UE5 for around a month and a half replicating projects from YouTube tutorials but I want to make something of my own

How do I go about making a portfolio?

[lilac walrus]

just make things that interest you, a portfolio will form naturally out of the things you have been doing

but I would not expect to have much to put in a portfolio during your first year of study tbh

[topaz ridge]

Hi guys!

[woeful iron]

going off your name if you want to recruit, check #instructions

[topaz ridge]

Yep I’ve seen it

Just wanted to say hi :p

[fluid pulsar]

Just wanted to mention somewhere that i dont think the Manny bot is working

he doesn't respond when i try the command $job

[topaz ridge]

That’s what’s happening to me

[vagrant bramble]

:question: Manny are you broken
:8ball: You may rely on it.

[craggy nacelle]

That one appears to work - make sure you haven't blocked DM's

[fluid pulsar]

ok

[lilac walrus]

it's down 😉

[topaz ridge]

Okay that makes sense haha

[fluid pulsar]

aww thanks ambershee!

saved me time lol

[pastel estuary]

it shouldnt be down anymore

[lilac walrus]

there's no announcement to say it's back up

[pastel estuary]

ah, pfist might have missed it. but yea, job-stuff doesnt seem to be working

[vagrant bramble]

MannyBot#9382

Version: 1.5.0
Last Login: <t:1663802892> • <t:1663802892:R>
Heartbeat: 89ms
Memory Usage: 51.22 MB
—
Source Code • Report a Bug • Contribute

[woeful iron]

but it is up as you see

[pastel estuary]

notified pfist, but he might be afk till monday.

its a new bot, things break.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[deep mural]

Cap

[mystic spade]

what is your development stack? if I'm an artist and am not familiar with your stack that's a big turn off. If I only know blueprints, and you're strictly cpp then there's an incompatibility. That's what resume's seek to eliminate, wasting time on mismatches.

[chilly sundial]

pfft speak for yourself. I create all my fbx files from *raw x86 assembly || /s||

[round radish]

Depends how much you love making games! 🙂

[deep mural]

is your portfolio public?

[deep mural]

How do you get a job then?

[deep mural]

How are you getting "spammed by recruiters"?

Just rep from this server? Or something else entirely

I want to get some type of job when I get out of his (junior) but wondering how to actually get interviews and stuff like that

[stoic oxide]

Hey, look up Glassdoor, Artstation Jobs, Trovit.co.uk

[deep mural]

Are those us? Or only Europe

[stoic oxide]

Trovit ain't uk only, offers a wide range of locations including remote

[deep mural]

And so I would sign up Glassdoor/LinkedIn and then I'd just automatically start getting offers?

[round radish]

Shit offers.

The good ones are rare and you won't get them right away.

[deep mural]

Right, what exactly is a "shit" offer to you though?

As in $20/h?

[dull meadow]

friends i must ask, is Unreal 4 or 5 better for a solo game dev? I want to start learning and making a game as a hobby but i want to use the best engine out of the two before i start

[round radish]

Don't cross post, remie.

[dull meadow]

oh my bad, i thought i maybe had said it in the wrong chat

[stoic oxide]

I followed your earlier post on portfolio.. Herr is the thing.. You can have a go at developing a portfolio or try this..

With each design/work you do, be it practice or paid, have it vetted fpr your online profile, I.G, Artstation, Behance, LinkedIn... Keep doing this with ypur works and learning results.. Have a good post, what inspired the work/design perhaps... You won't feel overwhelmed trying to get a portfolio up.. And there is a likely opportunity of being scouted this way when s1 sees your work.

[round radish]

Money, stress levels, awkward or unknowledgeable clients, bad work environments, the list goes on.

[deep mural]

Oh ic

Wrong reply

Tbh 20 would be good for me atleast for now

[dull meadow]

alright, i wanted to make a custom story/survival game, kinda like kenshi

[round radish]

Name it after me, Keshki! 😄

Cool.

[dull meadow]

ye! i was exploring the possiblity of a isometric engine, but i thought it might be better to instead use a 3D engine so it might be easier to focus on the systems rather then the models

well yeah but i would have to create the place holder models and that would take longer then i would like

[deep mural]

What's the lowest offer you guys got on websites like that

[round radish]

I get emailed about some £20k/year jobs occasionally.

[deep mural]

So like $10<

United States

It very much does LOL

[dull meadow]

I like rouglikes, in the way that the levels and some items in games are generated randomly, so i wanted to maybe make a game with intracate systems

:D

thank u

[round radish]

Intricate systems (I'm not pointing out the spelling here, rather the clear lack of design so far when it comes to the systems)

[deep mural]

Do you think it would be possible for me to be Under a contract at all rn if I was pretty skilled with ue5 cpp?

[stoic oxide]

Totally agree

[deep mural]

Didn't get an it job before hs ended?

@charred sentinel that's a question

😂

Sorry

[round radish]

My company is always after skilled UE c++ people. If you are actually any good.

[deep mural]

Did you get an it job before you ended hs?

Working in general or just it

Idk

I'm working as a child

So why couldn't you

Just a diff time period?

What country are you in?

👍

[chilly sundial]

Not to mention there would be difference between say, getting a legally dubious paper job as a 14 year old, that is technically child labour and tax evasion, but culturally accepted, and being a contracted IT professional in a company.
Especially since those need experience. Experience which children don't have

[deep mural]

Well I am 17 so trying to look at my chances of getting under a contract either right now or next year

[chilly sundial]

extremely unlikely

maybe an internship next year

[deep mural]

Alright

[chilly sundial]

but i imagine the chances of getting a junior dev position as a just-turned-18-no-real-experience isnt going to be high

[deep mural]

Right

[chilly sundial]

i mean the chances also aren't 0, and it doesn't hurt to try, especially if you have a good portfolio

but personally i wouldnt rely on it

from what i have heard its hard enough for people with experience anyway

hell maybe a hiring manager could chip in and give a bit of insight

@deep mural have you started a portfolio?

[deep mural]

no

[chilly sundial]

start one as soon as possible

theyre nice to have to demonstrate your skills

[deep mural]

anything I should add in particular? or literally just small projects

[chilly sundial]

#career-chat message
#career-chat message

Its all about quality over quantity. Depending on what portfolio you build, make projects that demonstrate skill. Making a character jump up and down for example wouldn't be that impressive.

[deep mural]

Yeah but I showed someone my projects and they said they were too simple, i can show you them but I don't really have good ideas for game ideas

[chilly sundial]

Then get more complex.
If the work you do is too simple you certainly won't get contracted

It needs to show something that is desirable. If you don't have anything currently that does so, make something

[cobalt nymph]

Is there a whatsapp group or community of UE developers in NRW - Germany? I want to start working professionally on the field + making friends/meetings

[deep mural]

like what exactly?

[round radish]

Copy other projects. It's just a demonstration, right? Implement something that looks cool and say how you did it.

[teal spoke]

@round radish I want to apply for a role as a Junior Developer. I got some basics down and will start a project to have something to show but I'm not sure how to move on from now. Should I focus on a specific part that I like or keep looking at the whole picture?
I could look keep looking into Unreal Insight, Significance Manager ...
But most industries want some specialists and I thought, maybe I should take a deep dive into MASS?

[round radish]

I would look at job opportunities that you'd like to go for and see exactly what they expect of you.

Develop those skills.

[teal spoke]

I will look at it again but I think they keep it very vague. It's mostly "Unreal Developer" and without any information on the specifics

[round radish]

Probably because they want to attract as many people to the job as possible.

To be honest, I wouldn't worry too much about profiling and such. I would focus on core concepts like a very good understanding on the classes involved in hte base game - game state, game mode, player state, etc. and then key "new tech" like GAS, Mass, AI, etc.

I doubt a junior dev is going to be expected to profile and fix other's code.

[teal spoke]

Would you expect a Junior to understand the networking side?

[round radish]

If you're joining for a position on a multiplayer game? Absolutely. Low level networking? No. Very few people understand how that works in UE. But how replication and rpcs work, definitely.

[gritty mountain]

Hi folks, I've been doing Motion and 3D for a while and now I want to pivot into game assets and char design(while learning UE), what do u guys think is the best place suited for this kind of portfolio? I've been only using Behance and my webpage, but I see a lot of ppl using Artstation in the game industry, is that correct?

also where do u ppl find gigs? Upwork? Linkedin and such?

[woeful iron]

Can confirm pretty much all game artists I know use artstation as portfolio

[plucky hatch]

Behance, Artstation, Instagram are good for portfolio work.
I generally find work via Linkedin, Instagram and word of mouth/networking

[gritty mountain]

Thanks for the reply, do you follow any strategy? or just post your work as you please?

[plucky hatch]

When I am looking for work then I try to post at least once per day, normally I am posting content twice per week otherwise.
With Covid restrictions winding down I am going to as many conferences, shows and design fairs as possible, about two or three per month. I get most work face to face that is my main strategy.

[crystal basin]

Considering a programmer position,
is it possible that one job offer has such a severe (hidden) pitfalls to it, that even tho it's paid literally two times more than the other - the less paid job is a better choice overall because the money is just not worth severe drawbacks?
I'm quite inexperienced in this matter and can't really tell.

[craggy nacelle]

It is possible but I'd say it's unlikely. It's equally possible for the low-paid offer to be bad, and perhaps in some ways even more likely

You need to ask questions in the interview to look for any things that are concerns to you

[lilac walrus]

I don't know that it's unlikely, there are some shite jobs out there - but there's also not much advice that one can give other than trying to get as much info as you can during the interview process

[brave forge]

Yep. Regardless of pay level there's a dice roll on the job. Impossible deadlines, poor management etc can exist at all pay grades. Ambershee was right, gather as much info as possible through interview, watch for body language when asking questions about overtime, deadlines etc. Look at Glassdoor.

[craggy nacelle]

Yeah I just meant it's unlikely to be bad because it offers a higher salary, they're probably both more or less equally likely to be like that :) Although low salary especially if it's lower than average/expected can be a warning sign of a "cheap" company which permeates the whole job and not just the salary... but yeah in any case, questions in the interview

[crystal basin]

oh I forgot to add, that the job that is paid 2x less, is my current, and its pretty chill with quite clear career progression path where pay gets way better as with more experience and friendly managers
also thank you for your opinions everyone

[crystal basin]

I'd say I'm getting paid equal to my skills atm and basically I got myself an offer which pays 2 times more, for no apparent reason...
oh wait, there is one, they said it has overseas budget, hence such money

[craggy nacelle]

Yeah may wanna ask stuff like do they expect travel or working at odd hours for overseas clients if those are possible things you might not enjoy

[vocal lantern]

Anyone have tips on making a portfolio to advertise myself as a game programmer?

[woeful iron]

put finished projects/techdemos on it, but try to make it a little visual as well, if you can share the code that's great, but people will not look at that in the first place. Give some context to the project, what is it, what kind of stuff you used for it, what you learned from it, why it's interesting to you.

make things that represent the kind of stuff you'd want to work on

[vocal lantern]

Do you recommend a certain website builder?

[woeful iron]

not specifically, you can use anything you want

I used wordpress personally

plenty of frameworks to just do it yourself as well

[vocal lantern]

Ok perfect, I'll check it out. Thanks for the advice!

[lilac walrus]

I would avoid WordPress, it's one massive security vulnerability and gets hacked constantly

also bots absolutely love it

[craggy nacelle]

You just gotta know what you're doing and WP isn't too bad. Easiest security fix to it is to just remove the write flag on all your files which mitigates virtually all exploits. Core wordpress is reasonably secure nowadays otherwise, plugins are the ones that are more commonly exploited

But yeah personally I'd suggest just using something that gives you a reasonable looking layout and is easy to edit with minimal fuss. WP is easy but it does take some setup and maintenance, simpler options do exist

[vocal lantern]

What do you recommend to use

[craggy nacelle]

Wix or Squarespace or such could be options but I've not used them myself

[woeful iron]

I've heard bad things about Wix, back in the day

[craggy nacelle]

If you enjoy the technical aspect of it github pages could be an option for a programmer, but it does go into the "more manual work" territory :)

[woeful iron]

it's manual, but quite easy tbh

you can do everything with some markdown

the initial setup can be a struggle, but after that it's easy

[craggy nacelle]

Yeah, mostly in the sense that you need to figure out how you wanna do the design and such

[woeful iron]

there's plenty of free jeckyll templates though

which can give you a good start

this one for example https://jekyllthemes.io/theme/freelancer-theme

[royal lintel]

wrong channel, read #instructions

[round radish]

Also <@&213101288538374145>

[tawny kayak]

You can post this offer on our job board. See the #instructions to get started. This channel is for discussion only.

[daring totem]

Ok thanks 🙏 sorry

[sour mist]

I wonder, if this message gets removed, will the ping go away for those who haven't checked it yet?

It didn't use to work that way, but I think recently they might have made that work.

[round radish]

Probably not.

I often get highlights in channels that have, apparently, no new messages.

I assume people delete their questions.

[shut token]

omg - I didn't know that. ❤️

[round radish]

Shift+escape?

Oh yes.

[pastel estuary]

i wish

[sour mist]

rip

[pseudo veldt]

hey! i was wondering if anyone here could help me figure out what kinda shot i have at my dream school, and maybe give me some advice on what i should do?

[steady pewter]

You shot at your school?

[deep mural]

Sad

[spice dagger]

Please be constructive guys.

[green oyster]

What school, what field?

[worldly urchin]

Hello, i'm new on UE learning. Is it possible to find remote UE work in future or become employee is only option?

[brave forge]

It's much easier to find remote contract work when you have a few years experience under your belt. But depends where you are and what sort of role you are interested in

[worldly urchin]

My previous company is dismissed after pandemic, so i'm my job change to Unity coding outsource. But wanna try UE now

[latent karma]

Hi Everyone! I've been studying and working on my unreal engine project for the past year and I been looking for a remote job in the level design, but without any luck, since I come from another sector and I don't have a degree in computer science nor game design. So said this, do you have any suggestions on how to get the first job or an internship ? Thanks a lot

[woeful iron]

try to create a decent portfolio

show what you can do

[latent karma]

I do have a portfolio! but I'm not sure if is to be considered as a decent one: https://alexportfolio.odoo.com/level-design#scrollTop=0

[plucky hatch]

Well then you have answered your own question, why would someone give you a remote job with a sub-par portfolio?

[pastel estuary]

also: check pinned messages in this channel

[latent karma]

If you don't know what's the standard you can't really understand the level of your portfolio, but I have annoyed you with my question, i'm sorry

[plucky hatch]

I am not annoyed, but if you want to be a professional designer then you should at least be able to apply some critical thinking to your own work, it's just an observation.

[latent karma]

that's why I asked for tips, because I have just got into this and I'm not yet a professional

If I was a professional I would already have a job 🙂

[plucky hatch]

Just some quick things:
-The design is not great for the website, colours, fonts, shapes, not a good look.
-The levels themselves are dimly lit, barely any images of them and what exists is super dark.
-No wireframes, no whiteboxing, no actual examples to show design.
-There is no breakdown of what you have done, this could all just be with pre-made assets for all we know.
-One section is just a wall of text that nobody will read.

Well no, I lecture at a game design school and the students work is very high in the portfolio, they do not have jobs yet, they are your competition:
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/aG6W4X
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/3dKPKm

So in general you need to liven the whole thing up a bit more, make it tidier and show better examples of your work including a breakdown of what you actually did and can do.

[craggy nacelle]

I looked at the portfolio and yeah I agree... I had trouble even figuring out where the images were and then I realized they're that tiny image in the middle of the page

Like I wouldn't worry about the design of the website too much, but the content needs to be more front and center and the images need to be bigger and nicer to look at

Also stuff like a learn more button that does nothing is a bit iffy lol

[woeful iron]

the images are very dark

weird web design going through text

also why do you have - before the text of every step if there's already numbers

As was said before, would definitely add some progess pics like blockouts and whatever

tbh, I would dump this site and go with artstation if you want low effort looking better

disclaimer: am but a programmer, not an artist or level designer

also, you might want more than 1 project

[plucky hatch]

The presentation of the website is quite important when applying for any 'design' role, so I would say use a template instead or a more structured website like Behance or ArtStation.

[woeful iron]

also not related to the site, but finding a full remote position is more challenging if you have no experience at all afaik

why does your site have a sign in button 🤔

and empty contact page

and "your logo" at the bottom

[craggy nacelle]

Yeah this is probably true, but it's better to first focus on having solid content and then worry about the nuances of the website as long as the site is at least presentable for time being :)

[woeful iron]

the lack of attention to these oversights does not scream "professional"

also, if you have a gallery of images like this, at least make them clickable to see full res version

[plucky hatch]

Well, as a creative hiring manager, I can tell you the first thing I see before the work is the site and if it looks bad it goes into the bin and I move onto the next applicant, so I would not agree. Attention to detail is how I like my team to be.

[woeful iron]

agree with robots here

website design is not the most important thing, but it can definitely break first impression

[craggy nacelle]

Interesting, at least for jr positions to me the design of the site would matter less if their actual work output was good

Obviously you are 100% right in saying that a nice design is a definite good sign and a plus for a candidate

But it seems slightly secondary to the work output itself :)

[woeful iron]

well yeah, but if it looks very unprofessional, I would be less bothered to look at the work in the first place, it would have to be really good to catch my eye and compensate

just my opinion though

[latent karma]

Thank you for your feedback is really helpful ! so apart that the site I did sucks, so you say it would be better to use artstation instead ?

[woeful iron]

idk if it is necessarily better, but it would take the load of you of making something presentable at least a little

don't really have experience with design portfolios so don't know what's common. I've mostly seen 3d artists and programmers

[plucky hatch]

It doesn't have to be great design, it just should not be bad design.

This among other things would be an immediate disqualification from me in a real setting

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/226110055328514048/1024737507641934025/unknown.png

I would not go further to evaluate any work after that

[craggy nacelle]

^it doesn't actually do that for me, but highlights the need to test your responsive designs properly

but yeah you're right, it does feel somewhat sloppy with those kinds of things

[plucky hatch]

It's a competitive field and the bar is high

I had 120 applicants for my last two jobs, I have to quickly scan portfolios, so anything bad sticks out very quickly

[plucky hatch]

Artstation, Behance, Squarespace, anything really that you can make a clean and easy to navigate site

People are not really going to find your website organically now, it's more a resource you use to email or send to people

[latent karma]

Yes indeed it something I just send by email, and now I'm embarassed to have sent it actually ahah, but I'm gonna work at the points you mentioned !

[plucky hatch]

Don't be embarrassed, if you take on advice and improve thats all that matters

[woeful iron]

don't be embarassed, you can only learn from it

[pastel estuary]

you can do it! do the thing!

[latent karma]

Thanks you guys for all your tips, they are gonna be really useful !

[pastel estuary]

he already got warned once before

[craggy nacelle]

yeah was just about to say I don't think he gives a shit which is real professional

:P

[woeful iron]

lol

[chilly sundial]

oop didnt realise you already responded. very sorry if quinn pings the mods :(

[woeful iron]

not a discord person, nice

[pastel estuary]

no worries

[stuck holly]

There's an industry for bounty hunters e.g. on hackerOne where people get paid money if they find exploits. Most of the companies who participate in these programs seem to be companies with web solutions. However, there are exceptions e.g. Epic, Riot, Steam
Does anybody have experience with bounty hunting for games?
Is it worth the effort? E.g. as a side income?

[royal lintel]

those aren't exceptions

all the companies you listed have a pretty heavy set of web services. Riot maybe a bit less than the others, but they all run account services, host their own storefronts that take direct payment, etc.

"Security" issues in games outside of those sorts of services generally, at worst, hurt some people's gameplay and aren't actually worth all that much. The biggest issue I can remember that stemmed from a game itself was the dark souls issues that allowed remote code execution on someone else's client. Which is a massive vulnerability for sure, but it's just incredibly rare for the industry.
This is likely why there aren't bounty programs for most game studios - the possible issues found just aren't nearly as big of a deal compared to companies that deal with much bigger web services.

[chilly sundial]

Hell isn't Steam's whole thing a web based games store?

[royal lintel]

Yep. Which is exactly why it shouldn't be surprising which companies have similar bug bounties.

Steam: operates a web store and manages accounts connected to their storefront.
Epic: operates a web store and manages accounts connected to their storefront.
Riot: operates a web store albeit one specific to their games and manages accounts connected to their storefront.

PS, Xbox, and Nintendo all have bug bounties specific to their platforms. Most larger publishers and platforms have one, and if anything it's surprising when they don't. The only one I couldn't find a bug bounty program for was EA despite having Origin, but they do seem to practice some responsible disclosure stuff https://www.ea.com/security/disclosure

[stuck holly]

I agree with you that it's usually no big deal for single player games. Also that every comany with a platform will care.
However, for multiplayer, I feel like game companies should care too, since it ruins the experience for other players if you can cheat (e.g. one-shot monsters in WoW). Where it could be even more severe is in competitive play, where there's much more at stake.

Of course this is still small fry compared to something like the banking sector. Where breaches have much bigger impact.

[royal lintel]

The point is that it's not worth it to reward bug bounties. These aren't hidden exploits that someone is using to steal from other people, these are issues that very obviously get reported when they become an issue.

The reason for companies having bug bounty programs is that it ends up being cheaper for them to pay some grey-hat researcher or someone who stumbles onto an exploit in a service rather than letting someone run wild with an issue that hasn't been reported. And to garner goodwill from the security research community.
Games don't really have these same incentives outside of account services and storefronts.

Oh and console platforms. But those all do have bug bounty programs.

I'm absolutely a supporter of such programs and I do think it'd be interesting to see what would happen if a studio started one up for a big game, but I also don't think it would end up being economical.

[chilly sundial]

The platforms that need it already have it. Even for multiplayer games, someone using aws and hosting the game on Steam doesn't really need that service

The big companies that manage accounts and store fronts themselves already have things as siliex said, or their own pen testers

Or both if I'm not mistaken

[royal lintel]

I do think it's odd that EA doesn't have a program. Neither does CDPR/GOG oddly enough. But those are the only "big" stores I can think of that I haven't found a program for.

MS/Xbox, Sony/PS, Nintendo, Ubisoft, Valve, Epic, Riot, Rockstar, Activison all have programs.

[round radish]

Who needs pen testers? Just have a spare pack of Biros!

[stuck holly]

I think another goal of bug bounty programs is to dry out collections of exploits publicly available on the internet e.g. in a hacker forum. I would assume collections of vulnerabilities were very common before bug bounty programs because there was an incentive to collect them. Now there's the opposite incentive whenever a white hat hacker stumbles upon such info they can get a bounty for almost free.

[royal lintel]

The industry largely looks at cheats as something largely handled via anti-cheat and player reports over time. And often the cause of the cheats are already known (and therefore the bounty would be worthless to the studio), the hard part is patching it.

Almost all multiplayer games have some degree of leeway for what a client is allowed to do, and this is often what cheats are exploiting. It becomes a game of trying to detect things based on process signatures, gameplay data, and general obfuscation of the game itself. The hard part is not knowing that cheats exist or what they do, but how to stop them.

Therefore, reporting that cheating is possible in some specific way is basically useless because the studio probably already knows of most methods.

[stuck holly]

And often the cause of the cheats are already known (and therefore the bounty would be worthless to the studio), the hard part is patching it.
I like this thought, maybe that's the fundamental difference. Since you often have a native client an attacker can practically do anything.

[royal lintel]

Yep.

Novel methods of cheating are exceedingly rare, most methods are very well known and understood - the hard part is figuring out how to prevent them without impacting the experience of the game.

[chilly sundial]

They don't?! That's odd imo

[royal lintel]

they do have a pretty good security page that I linked above, and they participate in some pretty standard responsible disclosure stuff. But they don't have a formal program.

given that they have a whole page about it it's a bit odd

EA I mean. GOG I can't find any info on.

[stuck holly]

This is very nice blog post where riot describes the arms race between cheaters and them. Which ultimately led to riot creating vanguard. However, not even that seems enough since cheaters also create external HW modules to circumvent measures.
https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-pl/news/dev/dev-null-anti-cheat-kernel-driver/

[chilly sundial]

Ah at least they have stuff in place. Considering EA as a company I am pleasantly surprised

[royal lintel]

It's a constant arms race that will likely never be solved completely.

[chilly sundial]

Cheating will always be an arms race unfortunately. And not one worth investing tons of money into preventing because no one will ever win

[royal lintel]

The name of the game is always mitigation - make things as hard as possible for the average cheater, don't impact normal users, and let telemetry and player reports handle the rest.

[stuck holly]

Yeah, I think you're right @royal lintel and @chilly sundial, I hadn't considered that it's essentially a lost cause.

[chilly sundial]

Yeah a lot of the solutions really inconvenience normal players. Even vanguard was pushing it a bit personally. Unless every player has a personal human monitor there will always be workarounds

[stuck holly]

Yeah, I heard that many players were concerned about privacy and such

[wary idol]

vanguard is the reason why I'm not giving that game even a chance

[deep mural]

Easy anti cheat is also kernel level

And battleye

[royal lintel]

kernel level anti-cheat isn't that unusual but one that is constantly running (let alone one that outright blocks you from running some software at times, which was a serious issue early on) is.

[pseudo veldt]

well, my dream school is NYU with a major in game design, and a minor in musical theatre or business, but i have no idea what kind of shot i have….

i have a 4.0 GPA, tons of AP and dual enrollment, and honors classes under my belt and in coming years, a decently high ACT (28), a strong set of extracurriculars and a portfolio that is healthily growing

im also only a sophomore so i have no idea if i should worry about it at this point

but the projected acceptance rate for my graduation year is 12.6%

[deep mural]

You can always turn it off afaik

You just need to restart your PC if you want to play Valorant

[royal lintel]

Correct. Which is a ridiculous requirement.

While I'm not sure I buy into security concerns around the driver, it still begs the question of what possible reason they think that they need so much control over the PC as to have that requirement when numerous other competitive games that have been around much longer don't.

And in the early days, it did cause problems. Incompatibilities with some software, outright preventing you from being able to use other software. A lack of transparency for when it was even running or preventing other applications from doing so. It was either incredibly rushed (which is not a great thought for what it was) or the consequences for what they wanted to do weren't well thought out.

[brave forge]

Because clearly only cheaters would ever run a debugger or a VM /s

[wary idol]

Vanguard was crashing random apps and even crashing the debugger, that's about when I had enough of it
It would also randomly trigger asserts at random points for no reason at all (attempting to write at protected memory or something like that), it is clearly doing stuff that it has no business doing

it's a glorified malware

And no other anti cheat has ever done that to me

[deep mural]

personally vanguard hasnt done that to me either

[wary idol]

it's maybe better these days but I don't feel like giving it another chance

[deep mural]

I've been playing val since october 2020

[lilac walrus]

no chance I'll install anything with kernel level anti cheat, ever

it's just a vector for malware

a nice big juicy target with millions of users

[craggy nacelle]

every online game will probably have one sooner or later

unless someone comes up with a way to universally bypass them and render the kernel level aspect of it useless

[potent pond]

Hey everyone! New here, just joined! I'm also about to start a career in Game Design, I have the vision for what I want to make, and I'm just wanting info on where to find people who would help make my game, well our game! Where's a good place to find people basically because I'm setting up my own company/business with Game Design and Producing.

[round radish]

#instructions

[livid glacier]

hi ,everyone, Im preparing my resume rn, Some of the Skill like maya ,photoshop, I have studied and know some basic , but not proficient, should I add it to the "Skill" column of my resume?

[deep mural]

what about if I took like a hs level visual basic class 😂 , can I put that on my resume or would it be done? I am not planning to use visual basic ever btw (obv)

[deep mural]

Since it's basically a dead language do you think it would matter if I kept it on?

[woeful iron]

don't worry, recruiters don't look at your listed skills at all before contacting you 😎

the amount of front-end developer offers I get without any front-end experience or skills is insane

[deep mural]

Realistically the goal is to be hired as an unreal engine programmer, is this not realistic though?

[woeful iron]

it being realistic depends on your skills

[deep mural]

I've got like half a decade at least so

[woeful iron]

half a decade of what though

[deep mural]

I'm 17

[woeful iron]

I have a quarter century experience in breathing, won't get me an unreal job

[chilly sundial]

I mean you wouldnt get it without it tbf

[deep mural]

True, but no point coming this far to quit

[woeful iron]

true

who said anything about quiting

[deep mural]

I have years to years to sharpen my unreal skills, or is this not realistic either

[woeful iron]

strange question

[deep mural]

I feel like unless I literally quit I'd be good in the amount of time

[woeful iron]

of course it's realistic to get an unreal job if you're qualified

whether you are, idk

ah you mean you still have half a decade before you go looking for a job?

[deep mural]

Yes

[woeful iron]

of course that's enough time, if you put in the effort

all depends on you

[deep mural]

Alright

[wary idol]

My advice, put yourself out there, show your work

I've gotten countless job offers just from people seeing my hobby project I did ages ago and my plugins, that's where 90% of the offers I get come from

[deep mural]

Offers by who?

[chilly sundial]

Well it's countless. Can't then count them smh

[wary idol]

From smaller indie studios to large aaa projects (won't name them)

[woeful iron]

Whom

[deep mural]

Alright

[wary idol]

Ok I just realized how much of an ass I sound like with that "countless" 😅

My goal was to point out how important it is to show your work so people see it

[chilly sundial]

Oh no you didn't sound like an ass, was just making a lil' joke

But it's definitely a theme I hear often. They care more about what you can actually do than what you can write on a word document to make yourself sound good

Speaking of portfolios, o desperately need to make mine lol. I need to apply for placements this year

[oblique ice]

i get job only after doing game art test

[woeful iron]

what is placements?

[woeful iron]

that's pretty normal if you apply for 3d artist jobs

[chilly sundial]

It's a mandatory year of internship in the industry I study in.

[woeful iron]

ah I see

[chilly sundial]

Partially managed by the uni, mainly for networking purposes

[wary idol]

Yeah this has been my experience so far, I have 0 clue how it is with other fields but that's what I experienced at least when it comes to programming positions

[woeful iron]

we only had 4 months internship for school

the focus on projects is definitely a game dev thing

at least for programmers

in other industries they do actually mainly look at you cv, and then do technical interviews, you don't really show "projects", at least in my experience

although it never hurts tbh

[chilly sundial]

Ideally for placements I either want to get in at IBM, or maybe even something overseas. That could be fun.

[woeful iron]

but that's just because swe are in such high demand I think tbh

[chilly sundial]

Yeah that makes sense

[woeful iron]

If you know COBOL IBM will definitely hire you 😄

if you're in UK I heard Studio Gobo/Electric Square is nice place for internships as well

[chilly sundial]

Might have to have a look at that one then

I know a fair amount at my uni end up in Germany for internships as well

[woeful iron]

didn't know germany was that popular

we had an internship fair at school, and most studios were from UK

second most popular probably sweden

I did mine at Nitro Games

[chilly sundial]

Neither did I tbh.

[woeful iron]

it's unity mobile games though 🤢

I was almost in at ubisoft massive, made test and interview and all, but they were too busy to place new interns lol

so sad

my life would've been really different probably

[chilly sundial]

Damn that really sucks. I've heard Ubisoft is quite good to work for

[woeful iron]

guess I'll never know

[chilly sundial]

Is Ubisoft not good to work for 😅?

[woeful iron]

I wish there would be more decent game studios in belgium tbh

might reconsider getting back in the industry

if they paid as well too

the only decent one is Larian, but they moved all their development to canada and kuala limpur pretty much

they don't hire new people in belgium

[chilly sundial]

Yeah I initially wanted to go into the games industry, but after hearing some of the horror stories I'm not too sure lol

Uh oh

Welp research time

[woeful iron]

are you working towards game jobs specifically?

of just something programming

[chilly sundial]

Oh no.
Oh dear.
Those are not fun words.

[chilly sundial]

Just something programming related tbh. I did always want to work on games, but I would probably enjoy it more as a hobby.

I figured out it's the programming bit I enjoy, not specifically games

[plucky hatch]

You can always work in the so called 'non-games' industry like me, still making games but for corporate types, less abuse and more money for basically the same thing 😂

[chilly sundial]

Hm definitely worth looking into for sure. Sounds quite like my cup of tea

[plucky hatch]

We just had an Unreal Spotlight for something we did with Volvo Cars that was pretty cool https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/spotlights/the-path-to-zero-collisions-behind-volvo-cars-new-electric-hmi-program

[chilly sundial]

Pun not intended

[plucky hatch]

I am about 60% automotive and the rest is split between the fashion and product industry

So its quite fun

We are 65 artists and about 35 developers making fun Unreal stuff all day

[woeful iron]

sounds fun yeah

all advantages of unreal + none of the disadvantages of working "out of passion"

[chilly sundial]

That does sound really fun. Never knew unreal was so prevalent in automotive

[plucky hatch]

Yeah, more so now that companies are actually powering the HMI itself with Unreal

[woeful iron]

yeah there's a whole "enterprise" unreal thing

[plucky hatch]

But I dont know ANY automotive studios that don't use Unreal in house as a viz tool, but now with UE5 its used a lot in marketing too

[chilly sundial]

Thankfully my course seems to open up a lot of opportunities, since it's more general computer science with a couple of games related things on top.

[plucky hatch]

There are all powered by Unreal, either pixel steaming or ROD

https://www.lotuscars.com/en-US/eletre/configure/?model=Lambda&config=N4IgpgdgbglgTgewgW0gFxALlDAJlkAWQQFcI0BDGCEAXwBoQBjC1OCrHfTEAIQGUA%2BgGEkAMxgBzQQFEAHmkEAxROUEBmACyDUFAM4k4YVOT11GTcVM4g8BADKsARrg6MEABzQwkZ7MytJLABtPgBBABEAcRlBAE0Ze3sAeQB1EEZhMPsASQAFGQAleMSU9MYZAA0AFVkAVULkgrCAOUF%2BAAk0jJAcltqZBqaZVvau8qJk1rCQAF1aBhAKCBhkCm9fEPmgA

https://configurator.astonmartin.com/SE/configuration/AM884/N4IgxghgtgpgThEAuUBLAJskAhAygfQGEB7AOwDNUBzfAUQA8AXfAJhABoRiAHR1MgM7JgAXxGcwZSlWEgMWAIIBZABwqALBy69%2BpISnBTqyANogAzAAYAnJa0KAqgEYA7FsLYWT9wDFc3zlpsAAUANi0fAHEnFS0ACQAZaK0AaVoATXDOJTjgwgB5ABFaJIAVQoAlBK0cvKLaXABXUjhiYnJ87hhSLWDsBICQYLjCQeCKyLtOCpTLAFYtXGxLQdwfdXNF3AB1Tc5cUuT9h1LsLVKE4IXOUuDCwdKKhzYbiu3rc%2B2UwvP0yz2QAA1CqWWhabYVOYAOQ4oEIhFk8KwwVo5jYYnYoFwDlk2KwSlKFxAGNARIMZJACRUK2J4lJOPJDMpKnMsTEAF0MSBugA3VCtUiwUiMWTyJAgXAAawAnuQIAAbeVaHh8QSyUjUAAWIqQcvlAhgYhEQA

I see a lot of ex-game studio burn outs who are more and more moving into Enterprise.

Same skillset, better hours, better pay in most cases, and also very interesting jobs where you have to figure a lot out

[chilly sundial]

That does sound really good

[plucky hatch]

The main takeaway is that there are more jobs in Unreal than there have ever been, in all sorts of places you would not imagine, so prospects are good if you are not picky where you work

[chilly sundial]

Not at all. Hell for me it just has to be in the programming sector. I don't care really what I use, as long as there is somewhere I can write my c++

[woeful iron]

I have a love/hate relationship with c++ since I work lol

it's so powerful and can do anything you want, but damn other languages are so much more developer friendly

[wary idol]

C++ most of the time is like using a bulldozer to drive a nail into a wall

[chilly sundial]

Yeah it's a bit of a love hate for me too. I enjoy using it, but sometimes it's like "Why are you the way that you are. Stop it."

[wary idol]

Exactly how I like it 😅

[chilly sundial]

Yeah this year my end of year project is about making a 3D game with just directx11

It's gonna be a doozy but I wouldn't have it any other way

[deep mural]

Without ue5?

That's gonna suck

Feels like it's gonna be extremely boring when I have to do it 😴

[woeful iron]

I loved making things from scratch with dx11

I think that was actually my favorite part of whole school course

[chilly sundial]

Yeah got introduced to raw dx11 yesterday and I'm already liking it

[wary idol]

I'm been meaning to mess around with raw DX for ages now and never got around doing it

[woeful iron]

cool book if you care https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-3D-Game-Programming-DirectX/dp/1936420228

[chilly sundial]

Already getting one :P

Our tutors get angry if we have anything less than a library of c++ books

[woeful iron]

I have a book on the c++ standard library of c++11

I have never really used it

idk why they made us buy it

[lilac walrus]

most Universities have a mandatory book list because the powers that be require them to in order for their program to qualify as a degree program

it's dumb

[wary idol]

My computer science professor in high school gave me a massive book on C#, still have it

He was one of the cooler professors in that school

[woeful iron]

did you ever use the book

[wary idol]

yeah I got like 80% through it, it's like 400 pages lol

[woeful iron]

damn

dedication

[chilly sundial]

For some reason my course wants us to read the art of computer programming by Donald Knuth. I understand why but isn't it like a millionty billion hard to read volumes 😅

[woeful iron]

never heard of it

[wary idol]

Funny thing is I probably read it more than any other book I actually needed for studying for school lol

[woeful iron]

3168 pages, yeah no thanks lol

I don't have time for that

somehow the ebook is only 912 pages

kinda sus

[chilly sundial]

Very sus

[latent karma]

Hey guys I been working on the tips you gave me, is this slighly better then before ? (is still a work in progress, i'm making another part of the level greyboxed, because I haven't took pictures of the previous ones. --> https://www.artstation.com/alexdev8

[plucky hatch]

-The wireframe is very dense
-Images are better and brighter
-I would use actual spelling, so 'going' instead of 'gonna' for example
-I would fill out the about me section with some real substance
-You can embed the youtube in the content section, not just a link in the description
-You can upload a banner image on your homepage
-You can make some small 3-10 second clips rather than just having images

[crude shard]

which website is most active for UE freelance jobs ?

[latent karma]

Thanks again for precious feedback ! I shall correct those things, just one question, what is the wireframe supposed to show or mean, and I ask that from the high of my ignorance

[plucky hatch]

Well if you have made your own assets then its good to see the topology and how they are constructed, but if they are just free/bought assets then it's not an issue.

[latent karma]

Aw I see ! I haven't made the assets myself, but they are modular ones from the marketplace which I assembled together

[plucky hatch]

yeah would not bother then, but I would always state whats not made by you for clarity

[latent karma]

That sounds fair ! Will write it

[twilit rapids]

Question: I'm looking for a Lead Programmer for my project.

I have a friend (a friend of a friend actually) who is an experienced programmer who has worked on AAA titles.

But, he doesn't have any experience with Unreal Engine.

My question is... does it matter that he's not experienced with Unreal and would you expect him to be able to adapt/get up to speed fairly quickly?

I don't want to hire him and then spend 3 months doing nothing while he gets his bearings. I'm not a programmer myself btw.

[deep mural]

Why not just test him? I really doubt they will be able to give their best even at 3 months though, especially with all the libraries and functions he'd have to learn about

[twilit rapids]

Sure, I can. Just wanted to get a sense of people's thoughts

[sour mist]

when someone just described your exact unexplainable feelings

[sacred cape]

I rly wanna make a game, its been yrs and yrs and theres this game i wanna make but ue4 is complex i dont know if i can do it 😭

I can create assets easily but i cant comprehend an ounce of coding, i have to rely on tutorial blueprint coding

sniffle

[modern relic]

Not really career chat, but blueprint take some of the edge off coding, although they are messy af. There's always the jobs boards, or see if anyone you know is interested in helping you

[deep mural]

I can help you

I use ue5 though

[green oyster]

you gotta start small. if you can make assets, make something like Dear Esther, make some money, reinvest, make something slightly more complex, repeat

[sacred cape]

yeah theres only one game in my head that im compelled to make. I know how to do it kind of, but im scared that i will invest so much time into it and then hit a barrier that will make me lose my ambition.

Also yeah im probly in the wrong thread sry

[plucky hatch]

Best course of action is to just do it rather than talking about maybe doing it 🤷‍♂️

[sacred cape]

thx bro didnt think about that. What an insightful comment, its not like im already deep in asset creation and blueprints.

[clear rampart]

what's a good application for pipeline-ing? or just managing Project Timeframe?

[broken yacht]

Should you learn unreal or unity for a job. I know unreal is better for aaa titles but unity has more job opportunity’s but unreal is better I’m just trying to find the best engine that will land me a game dev job with a pretty good salary not 100k but not 20k. Any answer would be appreciated

[brave forge]

Look at your local job market

It would depend. There's lots of unreal jobs around, but if there are only mobile game developers near you, maybe there is more unity jobs.

[vagrant siren]

That falls mostly under devops ( for the pipelines and automated workflows ) and project management ( for time, resources and materials ), you can DM me so we dont spam the channel here, or ask in #packaging , cant think of where else to put that 🤷‍♂️
But yeah, I got some points to add if you are interested

[plucky hatch]

Its location dependant, where I live there are probably 5:1 Unreal to Unity jobs. So you just have to do your research really there is no one size fits all.

[broken yacht]

Got it. Would you recommend learning both or would that be to hard?

[plucky hatch]

Well most developers I work with know both, or a good chunk of one or the other at least. We also often hire developers with only Unity experience and they are usually up to speed fairly quick, depending on what the task is.

For designers like me, I dont have the capacity to learn both, so I just stick with Unreal.

😓

[broken yacht]

Got it, thank you.

[deep mural]

realistically since I've got the basics for cpp down should I start learning Unity aswell while learning unreal?

or is that not realistic

[pure kettle]

Depends on whether you actually want it or not. No one's really stopping you.

I know some people who dabble with both Unreal AND Unity

[deep mural]

Rn it doesn't really seem NEEDED for me (although the 2d support would be amazing, plus the fan base) but I think it will look good on my portfolio

[round radish]

It'll give you a better understanding of how game engines work.

It probably won't help you actually do anything in unreal or unity, though.

[brave forge]

I'd suggest pick one, and get a small project done in it. You'll learn a lot. And then, when you are somewhat proficient, you can try and pick up the other engine. You'll connect dots a lot quicker. You'll probably just spin your tires a little more trying to learn both at once

[deep mural]

Alright thanks

[hoary hull]

Guys I don't know where to to ask this but I need some advice, Is it possible to start a game outsourcing company while I only do game development while I don't have art experience, although I do technical art but I mean no advanced modeling and texturing and simple or just mechanical animations. will that be profitable or will it work in general or as a game outsourcing company I need to provide art assets

[craggy nacelle]

This really depends on what you mean by "outsourcing company" - typically when the term "outsourcing company" is used it kind of implies more than just "one guy who can do one thing"

When I get pitches from outsourcing companies they are usually ready to provide an entire team

If it's just one or two people it's more like a consultancy or a freelancer and you need to position your offering to solve a more specific problem if you can't do full service

[hoary hull]

That's very insightful thanks, can you give me an example like what is specific example I can provide solution of maybe you mean something like multi-player network sync or rendering or something like that ?

[deep mural]

Looks like 2 widgets are on the screen at once

You don't, simple as that

[hybrid canopy]

maybe my ai creates one too

[deep mural]

Also, this is the wrong channel for this

#ue5-general

[hybrid canopy]

sry mb

[plucky hatch]

hey, came here because im having a hard time makng a decision, and would love to have advice from those in the industry.

right now im in high school, and i spent some time learning unreal engine, and right now have a few gigs that get me more than most of my friends right now, who are making minimum wage at subpar jobs

i really like programming, if thats what you could call it. i only use blueprints, i spent a bit of time learning the basics of java, but learning a programming language is so daunting. but i also understand that blueprints may work for unreal engine, but it wont work in the future, and you get hired in game development for knowing programming languages like c# or c++

ive really considered going to unity and spending time learning c#, as i heard its easier, and theres a ton of tutorials for it. however, i would likely have to drop my gigs to keep focus, as they take up most of my time.

ive really been putting off learning a language because, yes, it seems really hard, but also because ive been telling myself that a college will teach it to me better than i can teach myself. i guess what im trying to ask is, is it worth it?

should i drop my income to learn this stuff right now, rather than waiting for college, and walk into college/the industry with more experience, or should i enjoy unreal engine for a while, and will i be able to learn it more easily in college, or is it best to start now?

[dense plank]

Learning a programming language can seem daunting, but you're also very young and have a ton of time to get good at it. Don't discount possible paths you can take so early

When it comes to C++ as it's used in Unreal Engine, imho it's not too far away from C# in terms of difficulty (a lot of the sharp edges of C++ have been sanded off by the way Unreal uses C++)

But generally, learning as many languages and engines as possible is always a good thing. If you only learn one, it can limit the way you think about development because you think inside the box of a single engine or language

The good thing is that the more languages/engines you learn, the quicker you can pick up a new language or engine

[brave forge]

The basics of programming carry between languages. If you know one, learning another is quicker, the next one is quicker again. The fundamentals of variables, order of operations, properly breaking up functions, learning how to approach and tackle a problem. These are all relevant to all languages. Don't stress too much about "Should I learn x or y". Learn what you have fun with and solves your current problems.

ive been telling myself that a college will teach it to me better than i can teach myself

Even at college or uni, the single best thing you can do is go beyond what you learn in class. The more familiar you are with it going into a course, the more you can take from the course, and the easier it will be to do the course.

should i drop my income to learn this stuff right now, rather than waiting for college

We can't answer that. Depends entirely on your life situation and lifestyle.

or should i enjoy unreal engine for a while, and will i be able to learn it more easily in college, or is it best to start now?

I think you may be surprised at what even tinkering in blueprints will prepare you for. When you learn python, c++, java, or whatever at college, you'll connect up a lot of dots in your head. Should you move to another language now? Up to you. It is easy to spread yourself too thin and not learn as much as you could by being more focused though, so bear that in mind.

[dense plank]

Also bear in mind that if you're still in high school, the opportunity cost of trying something new is relatively low, as you have a lot of time to get yourself established. You don't need to drop everything right away to go learn something else, you can take your time

Some people do learn things easier in the context of college or university, but I think whether or not it's a good choice to go will depend on your goals and where you live. (I come from a country where university is free, so it's easy for me to say "do it, it's worth it!", That might not be the best advice for someone who lives in the US for example)

One thing a degree is good for, is immigration if you fancy living in another country for a bit. Every year of higher education you have can significantly lower the number of years experience you need to get a work visa in some countries)

For one off things like learning C# with Unity, I think there are relatively inexpensive one off courses that will teach you just that. Udemy courses are another option

[plucky hatch]

ah, thanks for all that advice, but also, I live in the US, so college isnt free, and im worried that maybe programming with blueprints (which i really enjoy), isnt similar to actual programming that I would have to do as a game developer, I dont want to spend a ton of money going into programming to find out i really hate it. Have you used blueprints, do you think they are similar to a language, such as c++?

[brave forge]

do you think they are similar to a language, such as c++?
Apart from being node based rather than text based, it's a full fledged programming language. It has variables, functions, classes, inheritance, interfaces, etc.

the "limitations" you hear are not necessarily unique to blueprints. "X can only be done in c++" is usually because something accessible in c++ isn't exposed to blueprints, but that's often the case over any language or library boundary. "Blueprints is slow" is just because it's an interpreted language, which is a technical distinction on how it runs, and doesn't impact it's functionality. Python is also interpreted, and is considered a full programming language.

I dont want to spend a ton of money going into programming to find out i really hate it
Sounds like a good reason to have a play with it on weekends to see if it's something you like

[dense plank]

If you end up not liking programming, there are roles in the industry that just touch scripting languages and not native code (e.g technical designer)

I'm a gameplay programmer, currently working on an Unreal project so I work in a combination of C++ and Blueprint every day (I switch back and forth based on whatever is the best tool for the job)

Blueprint has a lot in common with ordinary programming languages, so if you learn Blueprint then you can apply that knowledge to learning C# or C++ if that's what you choose to do

Unreal can potentially be a way to ease yourself into learning a little bit of C++, by for example learning how to implement something in Blueprint and then implementing the same thing in C++

[plucky hatch]

thats very reassuring! thank you both for the detailed responses, i really didnt expect that much information, but i think im definitely going to start learning now, and i havent decided exactly how yet, but i think i may start with unity, as again, ive heard c# is easier, and there is a ton of tutorials to get me started programming on unity, but again, thanks for this!

[dense plank]

Yeah both are valid things to do, and as I say learning more than one engine will round you out better as a developer, because you see how different engines solve the same problem different ways

[brave forge]

Yep, also a good choice. and as Ardbegatron said, when you jump to another engine, you'll see the similarities and the differences and you'll just solidify your knowledge more

[deep mural]

@plucky hatch I'm also in HS learning c++ so if you wanna be friends

[plucky hatch]

i could always use more of those

[steady pewter]

#instructions

[spice dagger]

@thin plover Use the Job Board to find others to help you with projects.

Read the #rules and #more-resources channels as well thanks.

That doesnt give you the right to spam in other channels. Play by the rules and have patience or look elsewhere.

[steady pewter]

Gotta load with more patience. Where -> other server than this one.

[plucky hatch]

If you are focused and self taught this is not really an industry that requires a degree. Since you are so young you already have a headstart so if you feel you can get to a good level then you can bypass college all together and save your self some money. Take a shorter intense course or two instead.

[deep mural]

From what I've heard people only accept interns and stuff with atleast first year completed in college

[pure kettle]

For entry level, yes.

[deep mural]

That's just what ppl in a Michigan college server have told me though, I haven't even finished hs myself

[deep mural]

So how could you possibly get a high level job when you have no intern experience or a degree

[pure kettle]

You don't.

[brave forge]

By launching an indie game and then going for a job. It's not the easiest pathway, but it is possible

[pure kettle]

It's a paradoxical situation

[steady pewter]

huh, Makoto-chan

[brave forge]

Plenty of people in the industry don't have degrees

[pure kettle]

The only way out is pretty much "be your own boss"

[pure kettle]

何ですか？

[pure kettle]

Also many of them starting in back when the industry is still relatively young

[brave forge]

I gotta say, the quality of candidates I see come out of some schools doesn't impress me. As Laura said, if you've got a few mods, or a game on itch, I'm usually much more impressed. Many of the game dev schools are... mixed in their quality let's say

[pure kettle]

I can't forget that one Dunning Kruger effect tweet

[deep mural]

Wdym by mods

As in like game modifications?

[pure kettle]

Yes

[brave forge]

Please share

I know what dunning Kruger effect is, the tweet I mean

[pure kettle]

Alas, it has been privated since, but I witnessed it when it's still up

[brave forge]

Ahh k

[pure kettle]

Wait, I found the screenshot
https://twitter.com/BartekMoniewski/status/1572020592722997249

Bartek Moniewski (@BartekMoniewski)

Game dev degree courses are truly a scam.

Likes

4889

Retweets

255

Twitter · Sep 20, 2022, 12:31 AM

[brave forge]

Lol, oh, THAT one. Yes I remember thst

[deep mural]

Isn't visuals done LAST?

[lilac walrus]

oh no, those tweets again

and no, it's not done last

everything is done concurrently

[brave forge]

Well, in tandem, but yeah, they usually take a bit of a leap towards the end

[deep mural]

I feel like the code would be finalized before the visuals

[brave forge]

No

[lilac walrus]

code is never finalised 😄

[brave forge]

Scheduling doesn't work like that.

You can't have half your team sitting around waiting for code

[deep mural]

I mean yeah

But I'm saying

finalizing the visuals

Normally when I think of beta visuals it looks nothing like the final game

[pure kettle]

Often times visuals developed parallel

[lilac walrus]

those two words are synonyms..

[pure kettle]

Change log v1.1

• fixed grammatical error

[plucky hatch]

So people in a discord for a college, have told you you need to go to college to get a job in the games industry? I think you would be better asking people who actually work in order to get a good cross section of results.

It's quite rare for a company to demand a degree in order to start (providing you have a good portfolio). I have only come across it once in almost 15 years of working in the creative industry.
Short courses are more and more popular now. Intensive 6-12 months, hands on. Learn more in that time than a 3 year degree and cheaper.

Usually getting your first job is about what you can show you are capable of, not where you have studied, most people don't care for that unless you maybe went to one of the very top schools, but must people don't.

[lilac walrus]

specifically for internships, those are often reserved for placement students specifically in a number of countries

[deep mural]

Well they were in a university gaming server in my state

[lilac walrus]

though it varies from company to company

[plucky hatch]

yes, but my point was they were already in college, so of course they will advocate going to college

[plucky hatch]

Indeed, but nobody is going to turn down an intern with an amazing portfolio and attitude. At the end of the day an internship is just a vehicle to audit and hire the best people.

[deep mural]

That's true ig

[plucky hatch]

It's up to you, I am just telling you it's not really a pre-requisite in my experience of working in this field in the UK, Europe, Nordics and US so far.
So if it's in your means then go, it's super fun too i'm sure.

[green vector]

Hey guys. Almost 30 year old guy here in the process a of career switch to full time game development.
During the pandemic, finally got the time to dig into unreal, blender and all that good stuff.
Planning to quit my full time job next year or the year after that once I save enough to live off that for the 5-6 years working on my project.

I'm interested in making realistic games (non-stylized games). And my biggest issue was with animations. I'm a decent coder but I still can't
keyframe animate a run cycle if my life depended on it, especially with the time I have. So, I kinda had to improvise and move away from the traditional elaborate rigs to animate.
I started writing some addons for blender to create cheaply(in terms of time spent) animations I needed. And it was definitely more effort than it was worth for my use only.
So thought, some of you who are like me minus 5-10 years of struggling because of animations, might find it useful, so posting it here(in the #lounge)(Its good especially for prototyping).

And coming back to the topic, anyone like me here who made it out of the tunnel to see the light on the other side?
I completely understand that it's very competitive field with a slim chance for success.
But I feel like, as most if not all of us here, what's the point of life without doing the things we love 😦

[plucky hatch]

I decided to make the jump at 28 so not too far from you, now I am a studio lead and have never looked back👍

I would not worry, I have had interns in their early 40's making the switch (decided old careers were boring and saw the light due to Covid times).

Now I prefer to hire 'older' juniors as I find they bring a bit more to the role since they have some life experience. THey are usually calmer and more confident.

It's really common now here in Sweden at least that people are retraining into Unreal due to some aspect of Covid (lost jobs, personal reflection, chasing dreams etc).
I just hired one junior, 29, who was a chef.

[green vector]

@plucky hatch That's very reassuring, thanks 🙂 I'm more than happy to lead a mediocre life as long as I get live it doing things I love. And I'm glad to hear you made it out.

[green vector]

WHOA! Chef to Game development!!! That blows my mind.

[plucky hatch]

He is actually the second chef in my company who re-trained, the other is a senior UI/UX designer now.

[green vector]

I guess long gone are the days when I was a kid when people used to have the same(skill) job for the rest of their life. What I'm doing now doesn't seem so reckless.

[plucky hatch]

Nahh this is my third career, it's never been an issue so far 🤞

[green vector]

🤞 Hoping I get half as lucky, of course putting in the extra hard effort being a given for the switch. BTW, it's fine if you can't say, what was your first game?

[green vector]

BTW, thanks for your response 🙂 . I'm more optimistic than I was before.

[plucky hatch]

I make 'non-games', so basically making games and experiences but for Enterprise clients.

But for some big clients, Volvo, Ikea, others. We just worked on our first Epic Showcase so that was cool https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/spotlights/the-path-to-zero-collisions-behind-volvo-cars-new-electric-hmi-program