multiplayer

[rapid bronze]

you should never

[cold moat]

I'll be honest, I'm currently storing player equipment on it, and also some information about progression

but it feels like it is the wrong place for this kind of thing, maybe creating a component and keep it on the player character is better?

progression maybe makes sense on the instance, but equipment probably should be on the player?

[plucky prawn]

any reason why its not being stored on playerstate or player controller?

[latent heart]

Is it online multiplayer? Or is their progress just tracked online / on a dedicated server?

[cold moat]

no reason at all, just thought having movement and equipment info and stats, combat system everything on the player controller probably would get messy

[cold moat]

online multiplayer

[latent heart]

Is the data related to the character or the player ?

[cold moat]

that's a good question, it is about the character, its equipments that changes movement and combat variables, but every player has their different equipments

[latent heart]

That can be different for different containers. E.g. a player's inventory might be account-wide, but their character's inventory might be just what they're currently wearing, etc.

And there might be overlap.

A character's items are still in the player inventory, for example.

[fierce oriole]

Hey everyone! Could I get a critique/sanity check of this Design to "Delegate" events from Game State to all Player States, I'm trying to eliminate Hard refs:
Game Mode and Game State communicate via Interface
Game State has an ActorComponent, lets call it "EventDelegatorComponent", and an interface to access it
Player States Add themselves to an Array of PlayerStates in the EventDelegatorComponent to "Subscribe" to those events. When Game Mode messages via interface to Game State, EventDelegatorComponent will loop through all "Subscribed" PlayerStates, calling the appropriate Interface call on the PlayerState which can call the interfaces on the Character or Player Controller

[latent heart]

Either way, store the data on what the data relates to. If it's cahracter specific, store it on the character somewhere. Player ,you could put it on the player state - you can specify whether each variable replicates to all players or just the owning player, too, so it's safe to put private player information there.

[cold moat]

I see, I'll try to do that then! Thank you Daekesh. :)

[latent heart]

Why do you subscribe to events on the game state when the game state already has a list of player states?

Do you want hte ability to opt out?

[cold moat]

seizing the matter, about where to keep things, is it okay to create components to separate parts of the player system? I'm a very OCD person, so for example I created a component to focus on the player combat system, leaving the player controller only for movement, is that a bad thing?

[latent heart]

Not necessarily.

It's your game design, do it how you like.

[cold moat]

that's good to read haha

[fierce oriole]

Hmm, good point!

[marble narwhal]

Hey sorry to bug you guys. I can't find any info online. How do I get my game able to be hosted by a 3rd party like g portal, and how do I allow other people to host servers on my game through g portal

[latent heart]

Putting the component on the game state and the combat controls in the game mode would be a serious issue, but separating stuff out into components on the player chvaracter or controller isn't really an issue.

[cold moat]

yeah I'm separating everything inside the player itself, not outside, but tbh for now I only separated Movement and Combat

these two can have a lot of variables and functions, so everything together was killing me

[latent heart]

You might find some overlap with movement and combat, so make sure they're accessible.

[cold moat]

that is a very good point, I'll be cautious

[past totem]

I have successfully fixed this issue. I would like to congratulate Unreal Engine for giving me a fucking headache

I would also like to continue and detail my issue
My child actors had 'Replicates' OFF (the actors I was spawning) [I do not mean child actor components]
But for some reason, they worked in the editor, even when simulating a dedicated server, but not in packaged on a dedicated server. For this reason, I kept trying out different things and packaging every time to test it, forcing me to wait so long between tests, because there was no other way I could figure out if my fix worked.

I don't know if I want to cry or laugh but it's finally fixed congratulations me and fuck unreal at least for today

[latent heart]

Did you have "run in one process" checked?

If you don't, it will actually spin up multiple game instances and you will get better results.

[sinful tree]

Contact g-portal about it. They have a link on their site labelled "Game Studios" through there you should be able to find out more.

Alternatively, if you distribute your dedicated server build, then players can just host their own wherever and however they want.

[past totem]

you know what

couldnt you have mentioned that earlier

[latent heart]

Lol

[past totem]

also pretty sure it just didn't work when I tried, or maybe it worked and the issue wasn't there, I don't know. and I don't really care anymore

[latent heart]

Btw, by "child actors", do you mean with child actor components?

[past totem]

no

[marble narwhal]

Oh so through whatever 3rd party they want instead of only g portal? How do I go about that?

[past totem]

just regular child actors

the parent had 'replicates' on

mightve been something to do with the bug IDFK

[sinful tree]

"You distribute your dedicated server build"

ie. Let players download it.

[marble narwhal]

Oh okay, I'm sorry I don't know anything about the online stuff. But if they just download it then they can't host through 3rd party websites like g portal right? Since I have to ask g portal if I can host my game

[latent heart]

Generally you would have to set that up for them and then pay for it. There are companies that sell dedicated servers to end users to run games on, but, yeah, I think that business model isn't so great any more.

[marble narwhal]

So I have to pay for other people to host servers of my game??

[latent heart]

On something like g-portal, I suppose?

Not on insert random hosting company.

[marble narwhal]

I plan on having 3 official servers, that I pay for, then people can host servers that anyone can join

[latent heart]

Just release the server files and let them figure it out.

They can use their own machines or rent an internet based one.

[marble narwhal]

So I'd just have to go to each 3rd party I want them to use, and contact them about allowing my game, then boom they can host to any of the ones I have permission from?

[latent heart]

If you give them the server files, you don't have to do anything.

If you want to pre-arrange hosting which player's can rent (without giving them server files) then that's down to you.

[marble narwhal]

My point is though, they can't just host from a file, if I have to contact the service to even put my game on there to be hosted. They just have a file

[latent heart]

Sure they can host from a file. Why wouldn't they be able to?

You give them the files needed to run the dedicated servers and off they go.

The point is, the players tehmselves will arrange where to put stuff if you give them the ability to do it (by giving them the server files).

[past totem]

you need to create a tool for your steam game for the dedicated server, that's the best way to do it

[latent heart]

Dedicated servers don't even need to be on dedicated game hosting servers. They can go on anything. Random Amazon server or whatever.

A tool?

[past totem]

it's just a type of steam application

before contacting these companies, make sure u have some following or something to show that they should care about putting their time into adding ur game (and include info about that) , or they will straight up ignore u

[latent heart]

That too. If your game has 5 players, it doesn't matter who you contact.

[fathom aspen]

I don't want to add up, instead I'm leaving you with this👍 https://wizardcell.com/unreal/persistent-data/

[past totem]

hello sometimes after I update only the server and the client needs to update it kicks me out right after I try to login, is there a way to get this as a blueprint event somewhere so I can tell the player to update the client?

I checked this but it has no reason variable

[latent heart]

I find it unlikely bp has that level of depth.

[past totem]

well if it's not too complex, I'd accept a c++ solution 😅

[latent heart]

Look at UNetConnection - the class is right there 😛

[past totem]

I'm like really clueless on c++ tho, what am I supposed to do with that? 😅

[rapid bronze]

There's a PreLogin event too where you can check the versioning between Server and Client and reject the connection if different, so give a message in return which would be the error message

Not sure if it's exposed to BP tho

[ancient adder]

I have a widget that calls a function in my engine subsystem when its created, that function takes in Widget pointer and calls a delegate which also takes in widget pointer, the thing is, i create the widget on client, bind an event to the delegate both on server and client on my character but only server side delegate fires when i create the widget and the weird thing to me is the event returns a valid pointer to the widget on the server

Is engine subsystem only on the server or something? and shouldnt the pointer to the widget be null on server side even if the widget is created on the server?

[low helm]

Are you using HASAUTHORITY or ISDEDICATEDSERVER

because a non-dedicated server can have widgets

[ancient adder]

Im using HASAUTHORITY

I now understand i can create the widget on server if its not dedicated, my other remaining issue is im creating the widget on client and the delegate is only firing on server side with a valid pointer to the widget, im creating the widget after "Remote" pin on "Has Authority" node

[dark edge]

@ancient adderWhat exactly are you trying to do?

[ancient adder]

Atm im trying to store widget data in engine subsystem with events/delegates such as on widget creation and destruction

[dark edge]

What actor is the client to server RPC routing through?

widgets aren't replicated

[ancient adder]

There is no rpc, The widget just calls a function in the subsystem when its created

That function has Widget pointer input paramater, when the widget is created it executes that function and connects "self" to the input paramater

That function calls a delegate with Widget pointer as an input

I bind an event to that delegate in the character, both on server and client for testing purposes, but the delegate only executes on server side

even tho i created the widget on client side

[tulip fjord]

hi, can anyone help me understand what kind of technology stack does UE use for multiplayer games?

by technology, I mean webRTC, gRPC or any other api along with the protocols used like TCP/UDP

[ancient adder]

afaik the delegate should only execute on client side because the widget is created on the client, there is no replicated properties/rpcs involved

[dark edge]

So you're saying you do widget input on client and something happens on server with no RPC?

[ancient adder]

I create the widget on client side, and the delegate is executed on server for some reason

it even returns a valid pointer to the widget from the delegate

Here is the widget creation

Add process where the widget executes the function from the subsystem happens in c++ at NativeOnInitialized, i do not use authority check or anything because im working in a widget

Or should i use authority check in the widget?

Or atleast "Is dedicated server"

[dark edge]

Listen server or dedicated?

[ancient adder]

I run the game with NetMode "Play as client"

I suppose it runs a dedicated server in the background

[dark edge]

I would switch on local controller, more robust to single player or listen server situations

If you're using single process there's fucky stuff there

[ancient adder]

Great to know, it was initially on Local but changed it to authority to troubleshoot why its happening on the server

[dark edge]

I doubt it's actually happening unless it's some fuckery with the shared process PIE

[ancient adder]

I'll try to run in "Standalone Game" mode

Delegate is not executing at all in Standalone game mode

i'll go do some checks

I went back to play in viewport and added 1 sec delay before widget creation, the delegate on client now executes

But still no idea why it executes on server

In Standalone it doesnt execute in both server or client

Got to execute on client too in viewport mode, i was creating the widget first before binding to the deledate, but it still executes on the server aswell for some reason

Okay its working now in standalone, only executes on client as it should, in viewport it executes on both, i guess using single process is fked up as u said

[dark edge]

How are you checking if it executes on both anyway?

might NOT be, just the log is visible on both

if you're just printing a string

[ancient adder]

Yea im using print string, it prints 2 times, one with Server and one with Client

The function also stores the widget in an array inside the subsystem, in viewport mode the array has elements on server side, none in standalone mode as it should be

[hazy snow]

does anyone have experience setting up a dedicated server in a docker container?

[grave lynx]

Hey, is there a way to 'set owner no see' a light component?

[past totem]

No,it does not work, you have to do a client event that sets it invisible

[grave lynx]

ok for the owning client, but how for everyone except for the owning client?

[past totem]

If u just set it invisible through a owning client event then it will stay visible for othrrs

[grave lynx]

Ok I see yes,

thank you

[olive crow]

So I have set my player character bp to replicate, it has an inventory component which also replicates, the component has an array of objects of a bp that inherits from object (uobject) that is also set to replicate (the array not the objects), but when the client joins the server the array of the client is empty, even though I am initializing it with items. It still has the same length as it should, but instead of having objects it has none on all indexes. Also this is an error I'm receiving

[past totem]

objects don't replicate

inventory systems should use structs

[olive crow]

That might be a problem cause I need to call events/functions on each item

[past totem]

put it as a class not an object

and then when u need to call a function get the object

u can also use get default object class instead of creating an object then (c++ only)

[olive crow]

hmm, that sounds promising

[swift pulsar]

Hello, is it still required to include UnrealNetwork.h in classes with replicated variables/RPCs? I've just noticed that it compiles regardless. (4.27)

[fossil spoke]

If you have Unity Build enabled (which you would as its on by default) then its likely its been included as part of the coalesced build unit.

[stoic lake]

Is it good practice to store all the usernames on the server's game instance?

And if not, where would I store them to have them persist throughout levels?

[swift pulsar]

Thanks, where can I check it?

[fathom aspen]

PlayerState. There is already a UniqueId for you in that class and it already persists travels. Might want to check:

https://wizardcell.com/unreal/persistent-data/

[stoic lake]

I have tried this, the problem with the playerstate is that I'm letting players set their own username through a widget. For all I know, the playerstate only returns the name of your computer and doesn't have any functions to change the default username

does such a node exist in the playerstate?

[fathom aspen]

You can if you have an OSS implemented which is the case in any real world application

Otherwise it's null subsystem and you get that effing long pc name

[stoic lake]

I'm creating a marketplace product. So I'd prefer to work with the default oss

and have people implement their own preferred oss

[fathom aspen]

Then you would have to either play your way through the null subsystem source code and change it to your liking.

Or make your own UniqueId which seems to me like a pain in the arse as it's used in a bunch of different places in the engine

So you have to take care of that functionalities

[stoic lake]

hmm, that goes beyond my knowledge sadly

I think I have managed to find a way by storing the values on the server's gameinstance with a map variable containing the playercontroller and its corresponding username. However I'm not sure if this is the right way to go about it

[fathom aspen]

Well you said it's a marketplace product.

I don't think you need to mess with the UniqueId at all

Not by the sounds of it at least

Let games implement their oss

PlayerState will know to fetch that UniqueId from the implemented oss

[stoic lake]

So if I get the username from the playerstate right now, when someone implements steam's subsystem for example, it will automatically fetch their steam username?

[fathom aspen]

I'm in ✈ so will lose internet access in any second 😪

Correct

[stoic lake]

No problem, thanks for the help!

[stoic lake]

alright thanks a lot

[twilit radish]

Wizard flying over to Vori to make sure it's all fine 👀

[pallid mesa]

eye is good

haha

[twilit radish]

👍

[past totem]

by checking the version you mean the build version (the one from the project launcher?)

[past totem]

1. package a development build
2. use visual studio attach debugger

it's like

in the VS menu there is an option to do that

try to find it my VS is closed rn

not that

it's like in the higher menu

press debug

then look for 'attach'

or somtehing

mayb4e windows section ?

oh

it's there

attach to process

yes

[past totem]

I was suggested this by someone else here

in the Project Launcher, is there a way to package for both Windows and WindowsServer in one run?
When I select both, it just does one of them..

[twin juniper]

It does both for me

You maybe does not have the Target Server config installed for your engine (if it's a source build)

also, #packaging

[past totem]

oh I forget about that channel, let's move there

[oak prawn]

The server can create a host and enter the game, but when I click the client host button, the game engine crashes?

[past totem]

don't u need to add

?listen

at the end of the map name

also go to Saved/Logs

and show us the crash error

[past totem]

I guess that's fine maybe

ye check logs

[oak prawn]

Saved/Logs this file?

[past totem]

@oak prawn can u post the last part that's useful pls instead of the whole file

just checked, r u sure this is the logs from the crash?

or did u run it again after it crashed without crashing?

I don't see a crash here

[oak prawn]

Which one should I throw at you?

Game didn't crash when I ran it with standalone game @past totem

[strong apex]

they are ment to run in just standalone

even using EOS features editor will crash if run anything but standalone

[oak prawn]

the first time I did it it was showing the whole session list but now it doesn't

[strong apex]

how you create multiple sessions to show up there

@oak prawn your max results is set to 0

make it 10

[oak prawn]

I did but it still didn't work 😦

@strong apex .

[strong apex]

blueprint is fine

[oak prawn]

It worked fine the first time I did it.

the session list stopped showing when i did it the second time

[strong apex]

you are using any source control?

[oak prawn]

no

[strong apex]

you really should

if any time you mess up
its good to have a
go back in time button 😅

[oak prawn]

:d

I added it the second time I ran this, maybe that's what happened? then i deleted it but it didn't fix it.

[strong apex]

well if you are clearing before find session then it should work

[oak prawn]

really hard to understand 😄

[strong apex]

cant argue with that 😂 sure it is

EOS subsystem is even more buggier in UE4

[oak prawn]

I'm in the last part of my game now and it's annoying that I can't write the right code and get results 😄

[oak prawn]

Where is the problem, why can't the lobby that was set up be found?

Host button

Find button

[dim trail]

why cant i pass an object reference to a server RPC?

skilltreeskillwidget is null when it runs on the server

everything else is fine

[past totem]

Because you can't.

use structs or something instead

[sinful tree]

In order for object references to be passed through an RPC, a replicated copy of that object must exist that both the server and client know about. Widgets only ever exist on the client they were created on and cannot replicate.

[dim trail]

i have a replicated property on the widget itself but i need a reference to the widget to update the respective property

i dont think structs will work

nvm, i got it

[sinful tree]

Replicated properties on widgets don't do anything. Replication of properties only happens one way Server->Client and even if you mark those properties as replicated, the widget itself would need to be replicated which even if you did, widgets don't actually support. There is no connectivity available within widgets at all.

[oak prawn]

sometimes it doesn't show the established lobby, what do you think is the reason?

[acoustic thunder]

does the Attach actor to component node have special rules?
I have the location set to snap
and on the server side the actor snaps to the component perfectly
but on the client side
the actor snaps then seems to be released right afterward

[stoic lake]

I have this blueprint which spawns a player when a players joins the game, however when I package the game, it doesnt seem to work

only in editor

bottom 2 pictures are the Spawn Player function from the first picture

[sinful tree]

You shouldn't need your player controller to tell the server to spawn the character. There's OnPostLogin that can handle that directly on the server itself without the client needing to tell the server to do it.
The rest of it seems like it should be ok. The only questionable thing is the "Find Available Player Start" function and the Collision Handling Override which you may want to change so the player always spawns.

[stoic lake]

the bp itself seems to work just fine atm however. As long as I test in editor

any idea why it breaks when I package the game?

[plucky prawn]

Reminds me of the multiplayer series from epic which has a ton of replicated variables in widgets

[sinful tree]

I gave you three.
The RPC on begin play may not be going through on the server due to the player controller not being net addressable when you're calling it - move the logic to the game mode's OnPostLogin.
Find Available Player Start you haven't shown, so I can't directly comment on it, but it's a place where something could fail depending on what it contains.
The collision setting being set to "default" means that you're not really controlling the spawning behavior and on the server the location may be getting registered as blocked somehow. Set to one of the "Always Spawn" options.

My instinct tells me it's the RPC that's the problem as everything else seems like a stretch that it would cause a problem.

[cold moat]

I remember reading about this but I can't remember too well, events can be replicated, functions are not, but what if my event runs a function, will that be replicated? Can I call a replicated event that runs through various functions?

[cold moat]

Also, things from BeginPlay apply on the server?

[limber cloak]

how do I make a client side movement replication in C++? in UE5?

i tried this:

bServerAcceptClientAuthoritativePosition
``` but it doesnt work

[latent heart]

To replicate FROM the client to the the/other clients?

[limber cloak]

to make client set the position

it allows people to cheat in game

they can set the movement and it will replicate to the server

[latent heart]

Where is that variable?

[sinful tree]

Event's aren't replicated either. You're making remote procedure calls (RPCs) that are asking the server/client(s) to execute what comes next. Whatever you call on those events (including functions) will attempt to be executed on the server/client(s).

[limber cloak]

https://docs.unrealengine.com/4.27/en-US/API/Runtime/Engine/GameFramework/UCharacterMovementComponent/bServerAcceptCli-/

[latent heart]

Oh the CMC. Runs far away.

[cold moat]

So I should set reliable only VERY important stuff, right?

[sinful tree]

Reliable should technically only be gameplay important stuff. Stuff that must happen. Unreliable for things like sound effects or vfx.

Also use unreliable for something that is happening constantly (like on tick), otherwise you'll flood the network.

[cold moat]

Okay! Thank you so much again, you guys here on the server are always saving me with things I forget, I appreciate it

I wish I had more time to play with networking

[limber cloak]

is the player movement by default server sided?

from the 3rd person package etc.

[sinful tree]

Yes

the CMC has client side prediction built into it for basic movement stuff.

So when you use "Add Movement Input" the client proceeds with moving the character and sends the move to the server with a timestamp. The server "rewinds" the game to the timestamp provided to verify if the client could move to the desired position. If it can, it allows it, if it cannot, it corrects it.

[limber cloak]

ahhh ok. so that CMC was related to me

[wooden cypress]

Can paperZD be used in multiplayer games?

[clear island]

does UE have any sort of query protocol that allows querying dedicated servers for server info? really wanted to avoid setting up a another udp server just for that

[fossil spoke]

You mean query before connecting?

Take a look at Online Beacons.

Beacons allow you to perform a connection to a Server without actually connecting as a Player.

So you can do things like make queries or to make a slot reservation in the case of Party Beacons.

[clear island]

yea exactly, before connecting

looking to report some basic stuff like, number of players inside the server, ping, etc...

[fossil spoke]

Yeah you want Online Beacons

[clear island]

thanks, gonna look into it

[fossil spoke]

Alternatively you could setup some sort of master server that aggregates all that information, then use some sort of API Gateway to do a query of the master server for a list of that type of info.

The dedi servers would just regularly make updates to the master server with their new info

[clear island]

yea I thought about that too, but it might get a bit expensive when scaling for many servers

I'm hoping to report a full player list (nicknames) too of players inside the server

so it might be alot of data to store, which would be temporary anyway

[fossil spoke]

It would actually be better than having potentially thousands of players making beacon connections to every server.

Are you using Steam?

[clear island]

yea but then they'll be making all those connections to my gateway/backend instead 😛

[fossil spoke]

Thats literally what a gateway is for

High scalability

[clear island]

yea but thats my point about it possibly getting expensive

not using steam

using a standalone dedicated server

planning to distribute the server binary and allow players to self host, like minecraft for example

[past totem]

for this you can just use advanced sessions plugin

[clear island]

can you link it? I'm not finding it on the marketplace

[past totem]

it's on the forums just google it

[clear island]

is this it? https://forums.unrealengine.com/t/advanced-sessions-plugin/30020/3238?page=151

doesn't seem to be related with my needs but thanks for the suggestion anyway

[grizzled pelican]

when is OnPostLogin raised? I wanted to raise it manually after I have logged in using my login panel so I can process server-side blueprint

[sinful tree]

#online-subsystems which does relate to sessions, which does relate to having lists of servers being made available to players so they can find a third party hosted server to play on.

[clear island]

yea that is probably a better channel for my questions

was just talking about that plugin itself

[sinful tree]

PostLogin is the first place that the player controller can RPC to the server. If you want to have a login system within the game when the player has connected to the server, then I'd think you'd need to build it after PostLogin has fired.

[barren surge]

Anyone know of any seamless join in progress examples or talks? Mainly looking to JIP into a world hosted on a DS. Form the client's perspective they should not notice a server travel occurred and they are now "match-make'd" with 8-16 other players into this shared world. ATM, I'm hitting some major hitches and client pawn is teleported to a player start.

[bitter oriole]

You can't seamless join a new server, so you'd need to look at some serious engine changes

[barren surge]

yep, prepared to do that. Any GDC talks of teams having done that or exp thats been blogged about?

[bitter oriole]

Not that I know of

Loading screens are not usually considered a big issue

[barren surge]

haha, depends on the game. destiney would be a very different game if their every 2-5min jip triggered a loading screen.

[bitter oriole]

Destiny literally does have loading screens all the time

It's just that the UI is still responsive

[sinful tree]

And in some instances, its really noticable when it loads.

[barren surge]

I'm not sure if you are unaware, but you in the map itself they are jip and host migrating every 2-5 mins right?

[bitter oriole]

I've got about 2500h of that game so yeah I'm aware

Your ship is a loading screen

[sinful tree]

(and a really annoying one!)

[barren surge]

yea of courese, but when you drop into an area...

that isn't a fixed set of players.

[bitter oriole]

Destiny does have loading screens, any time you join a new activity, any time you start or join a match or a raid or whatever

[barren surge]

fuck me, thats not what i'm saying.

Destiny, is an example of where a ton of seamless jip occurs,

[bitter oriole]

It's not seamless at all

[barren surge]

Ok thanks for your input

[sinful tree]

For when you're on a planet almost all "transitions" to new servers occur in crooked parts of the map where you can't really see what is going on in another part of the level, and they're fairly spread out so it gives the game time to actually load the stuff it needs to and make the connection.

[grizzled pelican]

this assumes that I've connected to the server map? or not necessarily?

[bitter oriole]

Destiny has a microservice architecture where you're routinely talking to 50 servers

So trying to talk in Unreal terms about that is just not gonna work

[fossil spoke]

Sounds like he wants to keep the world loaded while joining into a new server

So that it appears seamless

Even though there would be different players etc

[barren surge]

Yep, thats it. totaly understand atm ue makes this a blocking travel. trying to understand why.

[bitter oriole]

Well the "why" is "because no one cares about the initial loading screen and it makes for way simpler code"

[sinful tree]

Yes, but in some way, you're going to need to send data to a server for it to verify login details, otherwise someone will figure out how to spoof it and log in as anyone.

[fossil spoke]

The initial connection would always be a hard travel

But because you are making a new connection to a new server

For a new area

They would always be hard travels

This is just how UE is out of the box

[bitter oriole]

OP is asking how to not do that

[sinful tree]

I know there was a talk about how destiny did it, but obviously they didn't really give specific programming details, just the matter in which they did it.

[fossil spoke]

I know

[bitter oriole]

Destiny simply has a completely unrelated architecture

[sinful tree]

Yep

[barren surge]

Do you know what aspect of the connection aspect makes hard travels necessary?

[pallid mesa]

seamless server streaming is such a topic x'D you will need to write your own stuff

[bitter oriole]

When connected to a server the server has full ownership of every actor

[barren surge]

yes, very well understood

[bitter oriole]

The server also controls level streaming, which level is currently loaded, etc

And since Unreal is level-based, it gets messy real quick

[barren surge]

"messy real quick" is what I'm trying to udnerstand. if you dont want to explain, why do you keep participating?

[bitter oriole]

One Unreal exemple that's close is how Sea of Thieves does loading screens like everyone but can host migrate between servers to merge players

[barren surge]

SoT is a good example. Doesn't look like much has been published on it. But indications are along the lines of what I'd like to do.
https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/sea-of-thieves-how-matchmaking-works/

[hollow eagle]

SoT still uses hard travels afaik.

[split siren]

If I have a client-side component, for which it is unnecessary to tick on the server, it this ok or too dirty solution?

[hollow eagle]

"migration" is only fancy from a services point of view. Clients are doing normal travels to a new server, that new server just spawns you, your shop, and items on it in the same place as the old one.

So SoT is not doing "seamless" server travel. It's just saving your data to some backend service and then restoring it on a new server.

[pallid mesa]

you can make it seamlessler

by preloading your inventory and data

so you skip some loading

you can do that with a : 🥓

[barren surge]

client side tho, I dont notice a hitch or anything of the sort

[hollow eagle]

You do though

[barren surge]

on the sea?

[hollow eagle]

Yes

[barren surge]

i gotta play it again then...

[hollow eagle]

You get a Fullscreen message about the migration as it happens. It's a poem or something to make it pirate themed

It's connecting to a new server when it does that. It's not actually seamless.

It isn't possible to do true destiny-style seamless server travel in unreal without a custom networking solution or major engine changes that amount to a custom networking solution.

[barren surge]

you are telling me the 4-8 other ships I'm going to encounter are fixed when i load into the map then?

[hollow eagle]

Huh?

SoT isn't a seamless grid of servers of that's what you're asking

You're connected to a single server and so are a bunch of other people

Migration is the only time you connect to a new server, and that only happens when the current server shuts down

The entire world is a single server with 8ish ships allowed in it.

[barren surge]

know of any other games on UE that pulled off seamless server migration?

[hollow eagle]

None

[pallid mesa]

if you want to transfer data about players to your old server without actually connect to it you can do it through beacons right before u load into the server

[hollow eagle]

Again, unreal doesn't support it

[pallid mesa]

so you can have proxy ships before joining the new server

its some trickery

[hollow eagle]

That won't make it seamless

[pallid mesa]

it wont

but it will overlap

[barren surge]

yea not built in. But hearing about what teams have to do at least gives what whats the major issue.

[hollow eagle]

Not really

Anyone doing it is using custom networking or has made massive mods to the engine

Or has given up and faked it like vori says, but that still involves a hard load

[barren surge]

yep, no question. I did that for astroneer. will do it again.

[hollow eagle]

tbh I can't think of many games that even have that sort of requirement... Basically just MMOs

[barren surge]

engine mods that is.

[pallid mesa]

yes its a mmo thing

native vanilla and seeing players from other servers before loading... beacons it is and a little hitch u eat

xD

thats the best i can think of vanilla

[hollow eagle]

Destiny is the obvious example but their networking model is beyond ridiculous. Hybrid P2P/dedicated server "bubbles" with a quick matchmaker that gives you a brand new instance if you move too fast.

[pallid mesa]

i wonder if epic would offer any vanilla solution to seamless server streaming in the future

[barren surge]

Has Division talked about their approach?

[hollow eagle]

There's always the spatialos approach

But I've heard mixed things about them

[barren surge]

Improbable is the other "off the shelf" solution (have not heard great things about their middleware tho).

yea!

[hollow eagle]

Yeah

Their tech is certainly cool though

[pallid mesa]

how does these work?

do they scale?

[barren surge]

I dont have too many details on how it works, but the idea is a mesh of servers where authority of objects are migrated as you move from cell to cell

[hollow eagle]

It basically spins up servers on demand where each manages a section of the world. Their stuff also handles communication between servers, and I believe it's all custom networking which is how it's seamless.

It's seriously impressive to build something like that as a generic system, though I don't know how well it actually works.

[barren surge]

From the client prespective, i assume they would mark objects as autonomous_proxy as another server takes over it.

[pallid mesa]

thanks I'll look em up ^^

[sinful tree]

Like really, one could make a client that doesn't use any of unreal's networking but it connects to a server through UDP or TCP and then it just streams whatever data it needs to through those connections. Then you have something that's seamless 😛

[barren surge]

Well I dont see any titles on the market and its been 6+ years, so that may be an indication of their approach.

[hollow eagle]

Heh

[pallid mesa]

yes indeed but... i think they are trying to see if the engine could remotely offer something built in that would ease this

the answer is likely no, (only low level connection stuff)

[hollow eagle]

I think you'd have to dig pretty deep. And have a set of middleman services to deal with the handoff.

[barren surge]

yea, for context, i worked for epic for ~5 years, we made arbitrary decisions all the time and many times a feature was just a bit of work away but if FN didnt need it we didn't do it.

[nova wasp]

Fortnite being a forever game is a blessing and a curse

[hollow eagle]

I've looked at some of the level loading code. I don't think this is one of the simple ones.

[barren surge]

Once i understand the requirements of hard travel, it may be impossible task or simple few weeks of work... doing the investigation now.

[hollow eagle]

Good luck, you'll need it digging into that part of the engine

[barren surge]

yea level load is lots of old code for sure that assumed single threaded blocking loads.

[hollow eagle]

It's a lot of spaghetti too

[barren surge]

"attempts at refactor" 🙂

[hollow eagle]

So many different functions involved across multiple frames so you can't even easily follow the path it takes

[barren surge]

i added to the chaos for XB loading 😦

[hollow eagle]

I just wanted to know how to preload a sublevel when doing a hard load to a new level and spent like 2 hours trying to figure out how tf level loading even worked ;_;

[nova wasp]

I'm still beating my head against level editor loading gc issues lol

The world info is a partial culprit

World info tab that is

[pallid mesa]

in theory...

if the level you are loading is the same one you are on

it should be possible to do some divergence onto another code path

XD

lol

[barren surge]

The Day Before trailer implies there is some Division style shared world going on, but that game may be all vaporware.

[pallid mesa]

it can

however as you say

streaming in players in overlapping server areas

will be something you'll need to do regardless

so look onto proxying aswell

in my head you are remaking sea of thieves but with this set of requirements so correct me if in your use case this wouldn't be the case

[barren surge]

well I thought SoT, but as siliex was saying, it may not actually be seamless server travel. So closer to Division/Destiney where players are matchmade onto different servers and world feels continous.

[pallid mesa]

ye i mention sot cause boats are big

x'D

having a boat traverse between servers sounds exciting

[barren surge]

e.g. the hard traveling requirement of first join may simply arise from the fact UE does not have a way to stably name dynamically spawned objects.

a hard travel allows a consistent point at which to start naming objects, thus subsequent travels can be seamless travels.

[pallid mesa]

do you know this for sure? or you are pure guessing? I mean, it makes sense

[barren surge]

so then in order to get seamless travels between servers working it may be simple as :

1. Use beacons (or something else) to inform to be joined server what the client world expects
2. Server to be joined spawns/collects those names and sends down to to be joined client the names.
3. Client renames said objects.
4. Joining server now works as usual since name stability has been established.

guessing

[pallid mesa]

I see

[barren surge]

This is based on the client side prediction system we just wrapped up. Normally you must spawn actor on server and replicate down to clients is cause built in you cannot gurantee how server and client generate Name/NetGUID. So we built a stable/predictable naming mechanism, so now client can spawn and when server replicates down, it finds the already spawned object.

movement for the object is interpolated to the auth data from the server, but until server replicates its client simulated.

[pallid mesa]

yes stably named in a deterministically manner

but

im not sure if... the object names are implied at all in the travelling flow

if they are not then its likely what you are saying

[barren surge]

well its the only reason I can think of why connecting to a new server has to be a hard travel. shrug but thats the investigation atm.

[chrome bay]

The only real difference between seamless and non-seamless is that seamless means you already have a connection. In both cases, a new world is spooled up

[pallid mesa]

yes we are speaking about making seamless the travel, not the concept of seamless traveling haha

[barren surge]

Do you know what then necessitates a hard travel for a new server?

[chrome bay]

The transition level exists so you can dump the old level, switch to a low-memory transition level, then load the next large level in the background

[nova wasp]

What if I loaded both at the same time 😈

[chrome bay]

Not specifically, but there are so many aspects to seamless travel that depend on the connection being established and the player already being in the server instance

[pallid mesa]

so e.g. being in the same map and travel to the same map without any hitch at all

[chrome bay]

What it sounds like is that you just want a non-blocking load of the level you're transitioning to?

[pallid mesa]

yes

correct + net travelling implications

hard or seamless... the requirement is to make it "seamless" omg the word is not convenient

[nova wasp]

Not seamed 🙂

[pallid mesa]

seamless as in seamless travel
and...
"seamless" as smooth as butter

😅

[barren surge]

// if we're already in the default map, skip loading it and just go to the destination
            if (DefaultMapFinalName == CurrentMapName ||
                DefaultMapFinalName == DestinationMapName)
            {
                UE_LOG(LogWorld, Log, TEXT("Already in default map or the default map is the destination, continuing to destination"));
                // ...
                else
                {
                    StartLoadingDestination();
                }
            }

Yea loading to the same level world currently is is well handled.

Thats the UE travel, right at entry.

[pallid mesa]

so this is hitchless already?

[chrome bay]

I guess you'd just have to load it in the background in the same way "seamless" works. But in fairness, even seamless isn't hitch-free.

[barren surge]

not sure about hitchless. I am likely not doing everything right atm, so we are still hitching.

[chrome bay]

You can fool people into thinking it's seamless by having an animated loading screen and continuing music. That's what Paragon did

[barren surge]

@chrome bay my goal is to allow for server migration while in game world. Ideally client should not know any sort of server migration occured.

[chrome bay]

GL;HF 😄

[pallid mesa]

yep thats why we speaking about making the hard travel "seamless"

[chrome bay]

I don't see that being remotely possible

[barren surge]

Everything seems that way until you do it.

[chrome bay]

Apart from anything, object GUID's etc. are per-connection not per-server, so you would have real trouble syncing that up

[barren surge]

Granted I was not the only one working on it, but literally everyone told us Nanite was impossible, and then we did it.

[chrome bay]

I'm also not sure how platforms handle this. You can't for example on Steam, connect to a different server while you're already authenticated with another

[pallid mesa]

no you wouldn't, you would do a hard travel

but "seamlessly"

so... occluding the fact you are travelling

avoiding hitches doing non blocking loads

• some proxying with beacons

not speaking about making hard travels seamless... which by definition might require loads of low level work

just speaking about making it seem seamless

so you can move

dance and stuff

while server travelling

[barren surge]

Yea this is why I'm thinking that new server connections are blocking. It forces clients to load only stably named objects and then server replicated down all the dynamically spawned ones.

so, lets say we can gurantee or prime the server/client with stable names, what prevents traveling to a new server and server just replicates to that connection as it always does?

[pallid mesa]

but ZabirH I think that's just one issue

[barren surge]

yep, likely. what else are you thinking?

[chrome bay]

Stables names isn't the issue - it's the actual GUID's of objects. The server contains a lot of information about what state client objects are in etc. How would you even begin to transition that to another machine

[pallid mesa]

which by default can be sorted by having one sync-ed point... the research i think should be oriented towards exploring everything that can cause a blocking travel, because maybe that's not even the bottleneck

yes

[chrome bay]

Out of interest, what's the requirement for this? Is it just a desire to have a seamless server migration or something more?

[barren surge]

yes, correct, I just refer to the NetID and Name as stable name, per UE API "IsStablyNamed()"

[pallid mesa]

yess seamless server streaming

[barren surge]

Yes!

Want to be able to migrate servers without hitch/loading screen.

[pallid mesa]

imagine sea of thieves, a ship traversing through a grid of servers

[chrome bay]

Something like what SpatialOS does then I guess. I have no idea how that works tbh

But it took an entire company and many many $$$ to make that work 😄

Presumably they have some of their own infrastructure

[barren surge]

yep, totally agree.

[pallid mesa]

but even in seamless travels, I mean

[barren surge]

Yea, I would break it down to levels of "success" actually having a spatial grid of servers maybe being a very high tier goal

[chrome bay]

I think the real trouble here is transitioning the complete state of one server to another. Concepts like relevancy really means that just creating objects with the same name is not enough, servers presumably need to be able to talk to other servers and transitions the complete client state from one place to another

[nova wasp]

And now it's just a vehicle for web3 nonsense 😔

[chrome bay]

Does Improbable even do that? I thought it was more of a planetside style system where switching server meant a "travel" of some kind

[nova wasp]

They tried to lean into that recently

[barren surge]

AFAIK, the marketing box says yes, but I have not used the API.

[pallid mesa]

well you just need to hard travel to a running server

thats the theory, you dont need to transition the full state to one server to another

[nova wasp]

In fairness they do push the number of players running around pretty far. A lot more of a real actually interesting thing than most web3 efforts

[chrome bay]

But that new server needs to know that clients' object state too

[pallid mesa]

for overlapping areas beacons are fine

[barren surge]

A super simple first step, 4 clients load into single player maps, run to differnt positions, then match makin into a shared world owned by a DS. Clients were interactive whole time and visual pop is acceptable at first.

[nova wasp]

Destiny 2 has an intermediate period where players reappear

[pallid mesa]

yes visual popping all good!

for now ~

visual popping is fine

a hitch: bad

[nova wasp]

The transition generally happens in a cleverly hidden corridor

[pallid mesa]

visual popping can be mitigated with beacons in a smart way

[nova wasp]

With no enemies etc

[chrome bay]

tbh even level streaming isn't hitch-free

I don't think it's just the networking layer that's a barrier

[pallid mesa]

thats true

[kindred widget]

Someone in Blueprint was having that problem with level streaming just the other day, no networking involved.

[pallid mesa]

but what are the possible blockers when doing a hard travel to the same map? what can possibly create hitches? thats i guess the research line

[nova wasp]

Level streaming in BP is too simplified, it should be a bit fancier imo

[chrome bay]

Even hard-travelling to the same map in UE has problems 😄

Engine gets very confused

Caused us endless headaches in HLL for a while

[pallid mesa]

I've suffered that 🤣

[chrome bay]

Or was that seamless.. I forget

[thin stratus]

Probably Seamless

[nova wasp]

Memeless server travel

[chrome bay]

Memeless travel would be nice

But the engine creates lots of memes

[barren surge]

well ignoring all the loading hitches. Looks like with hard travel:

1. Server & Client resets all state via map load (server could execute save file load code to get into some kind of specific state)
2. Clients loads via map load and everything replicates down.
3. I dont see a way to persist actors between maps/levels.

this goes back to my theory why new server connections are hard blocking is so server can establish consistent net name/guids.

Seamless travel allows persisting actors since they have already been stably named.

Am i mistaken that hard travel does not allow persisting actors?

[chrome bay]

Well Seamless travel doesn't technically allow persisting actors, apart from one or two very specially handled cases, all actors are new

And there's a very tightly handled hand-off process between old and new

[barren surge]

APlayerController:GetSeamlessTravelActorList can be overriden and all kinds of actors can be added. in fact I seem to be able to add anything to that list so long as that object was server spawned and "bReplicates" is enabled...

[thin stratus]

That call exists twice

And yes, you can persist other actors with that

I usually persist ATeamState : AInfo actors with it

Just have to find them afterwards

Cause the GameState (where we hold an array of them) is recreated, so the pointers are wiped

[barren surge]

Yea, so I'm now 90% confident that hard travel requirement for new connection to new server is solely to enforce the stable name/GUID for net addressing.

[thin stratus]

Am i mistaken that hard travel does not allow persisting actors?
Hard Travel does NOT allow persisting actors.

Seamless Travel does.

Just so you are clear on that end

Seamless Travel, as a concept, makes no sense for Connecting/Disconnecting

No matter what the fineprint actually says

[barren surge]

Not sure I follow what you mean

[chrome bay]

Also, seamless travel isn't seamless 😄

There's a very noticeable hitch when you do finally transition to the loaded level

Depending on how large and populated that level is

[thin stratus]

Yeah sure, but they call it seamless :D

[chrome bay]

But yeah, networking aside - I don't think that's the first barrier to the end goal here

[thin stratus]

It's probably also coming from BeginPlay being overloaded in larger levels

[barren surge]

Networking team vs Core system team 😛

Network team's test level I bet are very seamless 😛

[thin stratus]

Seamless Travel is meant to keep the connection with the Client alive, parking them on a Transition Level while loading the Main Level on the Server etc.
While Hard Travel actively disconnects the Clients and causes them to reconnect, which for example Steam really doesn't like.

But that concept makes no sense for Connecting. The Client is not connected, there is no Transition Level, no Connection to be kept alive. No Actors that might persist. So Connecting and Disconnecting only really makes sense with a Hard Travel.

[barren surge]

For context, goals is to perform server migration and from clients perspective ideally no hitch or loading screen. Similar to Division/Destiny/Sea of Thieves.
Obviously this isn't supporte out of box. Current investigation was whats differnt between hard travels vs seamless travels.

[thin stratus]

Yeah your main deal breaker is that it's entirely unsupported to do this without loading with UE's servers

[barren surge]

Yea we can have multiple DS up and running read for clients to join.

[thin stratus]

Seamless requires the same Host to be present, so it's not gonna give you much info I guess

Yeah but moving from DS to DS is Disconnect -> Connect

[barren surge]

yep

[thin stratus]

As long as you stick with UE's network layer

[barren surge]

we will likely need to build something (maybe using Beacons) for a server to prime another server with world/client state. And a bunch of async loading to keep client view responsive.

[split siren]

When I modify replicated ustruct, do I need to mark it as dirty somehow or will it replicate automagically?

[bitter oriole]

It'll replicate based on changes

Same as UObjects

[split siren]

Thanks

[split siren]

But if I change only 1 value inside the ustruct (containing 100 floats), it will still serialise and send the the whole struct, right?

[bitter oriole]

No

[split siren]

Damn, ustruct are smart

[bitter oriole]

Same as UObject, only changes will be sent

[split siren]

One last silly question, is it in theory possible that server changes 2 values in struct, and they end up in different packets, resulting in client receiving update for value 1 and few frames after update for value 2?

[chrome bay]

If you change them in different frames yes

[bitter oriole]

Yes

Not even sure that a same-frame change guarantees same packet

That should be what Atomic is for

[chrome bay]

yeah I'm not sure at least in highly strained situations

I've never found a definitive answer for whether actor updates can be split into different packets or not

[bitter oriole]

My strategy has been slapping Atomic on structs I really want this for

Probably FHitResult would be interesting reading

IIRC it has partial replication support

[chrome bay]

yeah they use NetSerialize for a lot of atomic structs so the per-property changes become moot

FHitResult uses that also IIRC

(NetSerialize that is)

[split siren]

Thanks guys for the clarification, it is hard to work around these edge cases. Atomic it is then 🙂

[chrome bay]

Just bear in mind Atomic does IIRC mean that the entire struct will be sent, but worth checking

But any struct with 100 floats is pretty absurd to replicate anyway 😄

[split siren]

Yeah, that was just a dumb example, I am serialising the struct to very small footprint, so sending the whole thing is totally fine (preferable). It's not 100 floats Thanks

[split siren]

I got slightly lost in Serializing ustruct variable.
Basically I need to serialize the PropData only if the bIsProp is true, othewise PropData should be the default values.
Since FPH_PropData doesn't have custom NetSerializer and I cannot use <<, what is the correct way to include PropData struct in an FArchive?

[latent heart]

The first thing you do is change your font 😂

[split siren]

Default settings gang rise!

[latent heart]

You could serialise each member individually.

I guess changing the struct isn't possible?

[split siren]

Which struct?

[latent heart]

The propdata one.

[split siren]

It is definitely possible

[latent heart]

You can add your own struct serialisers

Like you're already doing, it seems?!

[split siren]

That is true, but that is a lot of boilerplate for enabling a default functionality.
I want to avoid using custom NetSerialize for FPH_PropData because there are no bits I can save in clever serialization, all data is needed from there.

I just want to serialize it as it would be serialised by the engine if I just wanted to replicate it by itself

[split siren]

The reason why I use custom serialization in the FPH_ClientPropData (wrapper around FPH_PropData) is because I don't need to package PropData if bIsProp is false, thus saving 99% of serialised size in that specific case.

[latent heart]

I figured that. 🙂

I'm not sure if ustructs get their own default serialisation like that, though.

[rigid acorn]

Hey guys, shouting for help with bp instanced static mesh per instance custom data replication. Thr instanced static mesh component is dynamically created, the actor owning it is spawned on server, both are replicated. I'm trying to change custom data and these changes must be replicated to everyone, but they're not. Only the owning client can see these changes. I tired everything I guess. I'm trying to create building construction system for RTS, and thr building upgrades are designed to be visually represented by per instance custom data. I'm taking the hit results under cursor and trying to pass the hit component, but it's not working. I tried to print string the display name for instanced static mesh component and this name is different for server and clients.

[split siren]

Sorry for over-explaining, I sometimes can be rubbish at explaining what I want to do. Thanks for the suggestions with custom serialisation anyways!

[split siren]

I am pretty sure the PerInstanceSMData is not replicated at all. You will most likely need a custom Fast TArray replication and update the PerInstanceSMData when your replicated array is updated. Not something that can be done in BP though.

[rigid acorn]

Oh man, maybe there's a workaround as for example changing custom data using game state and calling the event for all player-possesed pawns changing the custom data.

[split siren]

Yeah, doing multiplayer in BP only limits you greatly.

[rigid acorn]

Also, it's not really about custom data, the instanced static mesh component is not replicated, I tried to destroy the component and could not do it either

Just recalled that

[still owl]

Hello!

I haven't attempted this yet but I'm wondering if it's possible to NOT return clients to the default map if a ListenServer closes?

At the end of a match I want to display the results etc with a button to return the player to the menu. However if the ListenServer returns to the menu at this stage, all clients will most likely also get booted due to network error when they may not have finished looking at the results. Ideally each player, Including the listen server can return to the menu freely without disrupting others.

Is there anyway around this or advice on how to solve this problem?

[livid holly]

hey all

is there a way I can tell an autonomous client to stop trying to predict it's rotation and just accept whatever the server sends? And turn this behavior on-off at runtime?

like I have a gameplay ability during which, I want to tell the client "stop trying to predict your rotation and just follow along with whatever the server tells you"

[barren surge]

did you mean simulated proxy or remote proxy? An autonomous proxy isn't being predicted (at least not when looking at the stock CharacterMovementComponent). What "prediction" or unintended interpolation are you seeing?

[livid holly]

I'm confused. I thought autonomous proxy did prediciton?

as in

if I tell the player to move forward, my player will move forward locally, send the move packet to the server, which then validates. And if the server tells "no, you shouldn't move forward", it sends back to client to it can "revert" the move forward, isn't that how it happens?

[barren surge]

yep, thats right

I miss understood the terminology.

so you are wanting to prevent the local movement and just wait for the server ack?

[livid holly]

yep

turning this behavior on/off at runtime

[barren surge]

while not predicting, is the pawn moved via user input? or driven via animation?

[livid holly]

driven via "Set Actor Rotation"

in a GameplayAbility that rotates the pawn

[barren surge]

if no user input is involved then I'd consider turning the autonomous proxy into a simulated proxy while you want this behavior and turning it back to auto proxy when done.
If user input is involved, then would look into deriving the movement component and implementing a custom movement mode. see EMovementMode::MOVE_Custom

What triggers the SetActorRotation?

[livid holly]

a gameplay ability

no user input is involved

I can just manually change an actors role like that? Didn't know that

but I'm afraid there might be so many unintended consequences doing that

[barren surge]

well you have to coordinate with the server

[trim plume]

Hi. In a racing game, I have an actor with a spline that keeps track of where players are. It works fine on server, but how can I send the map result to the clients widget?
I've been struggling with this all day.. Any help is greatly appreciated.

[barren surge]

you would need to notify the server or the server "understands" this pawn should become sim proxy now based on gamestate.

[pallid mesa]

easier is using an array and rely on replication, rather than a map

maps won't replicate

[pallid mesa]

now.. why can't you replicate the target rotation and do it server initiated

rather than messing with the role system 😄

[latent heart]

That's just how he roles.

[pallid mesa]

https://tenor.com/view/gone-to-the-snow-dogs-gttsd-snow-dogs-husky-siberian-husky-gif-18849296

[trim plume]

Thanks for replying.
Do you know any tutorials/youtube videos, that shows how to do that multiplayer? I've seen a few, but they're only single player.

[pallid mesa]

mh... not sure if this udemy course covers it

https://www.udemy.com/course/pro-unreal-engine-game-coding/

take a look

[wooden cypress]

is LaunchCharacter jsut disabled in multiplayer?

it doesnt work at all

I cannot set velocity, launch character, how do I make the character dash?

[pallid mesa]

launch character works

but, you gotta do it predictively on the client and then on the server

for these style of tasks GAS is recommended

• root motion tasks - how lyra does the dashing

[trim plume]

I don't think it does. Apparently I can't find any information about this.
I guess it's not possible for me to make something like that then. Thank you for your time.

[pallid mesa]

no it is, but

array replication is a topic by itself

so... let me explain you

how much do you know about unreal's replication system?

and their differences between C++ and BPs?

@trim plume

[trim plume]

I've been trying to understand replication for some months now, and honestly feel like smashing something hard against the wall..

[pallid mesa]

okay, I can give you an introduction if you'd like

[trim plume]

Single player is no problem, I can easily make it work server side, but I have no idea how to parse the data to the clients.

I'm familiar with has authority check, then call server, then call multicast and such.

And recently learned about repnotify

[pallid mesa]

that's just tools for your toolset nothing you must rely on all of the time

so far, you know RPCs, and replicated variables, right?

[trim plume]

How would you go about making a players positions in a racing game?

Yea, kinda

[pallid mesa]

so the concept of this starts by... let's have our data in a class that is replicated down to our clients

like the gamestate

[trim plume]

It's all very confusing. Without doubt the most confusing I've ever tried to understand

[pallid mesa]

yes the thing is that you need to not pretend to solve problems at a go

with replication you need to understand its implications

and why we do things in a certain way

so as I said, player positions is something we can have in an actor is replicated down to our clients, like the gamestate

or in your case a replicated actor that contains a spline in which u do ur logic

[trim plume]

Yea ok

[pallid mesa]

so in the server, we do the position tracking under a has authority check, possibly on tick

and we populate an array

that's just a heuristic that will give you a resulting array given the "game state"

[trim plume]

The spline actor is placed in the world in editor, and it's already there from begin play, so all clients and the server can find it.
On spawning the pawn for players in the player controller, I then add the newly spawned pawn in a pawn-to-float map in the spline actor

[pallid mesa]

your actor with the spline

should be replicated

because we want the position array to be replicated down to our clients right when it updates

[trim plume]

I have an auth check on the tick in the spline actor

[pallid mesa]

that's not enough

an auth check will simply ensure that you are executing logic on authority -> the server

what you need is ensuring this actor is marked for replication

bReplicates to true in its defaults

[trim plume]

I didn't have the replicates checkbox checked, so I checked it now will try see it that does something

[pallid mesa]

no

that won't do anything unless

you replicate the positions array

so remember, replication goes from server to client

in this case we are updating the array in the server

and we are relying on replication to give us a mirror on our client

for that you have to tell unreal that you want to replicate said array

if you are using blueprints, its a boolean in the property

[trim plume]

Ok, so if I understand correctly, and please correct me if I'm wrong. In the spline actor, I check Replicates, and then make 2 arrays, one for the pawns, and the second one for distance in float. Then I choose Replicated in both arrays property details?

And from there I should be able to get the arrays from the widgets that is created by the clients?

[pallid mesa]

why two arrays?

just one no need for two, right?

just an array of structs might be enough

[trim plume]

I need the distance so I can place their player icons on a line, similar to mario kart and such

I can make an array of struct with vehicle pawn and a float for the distance, and then replicate that?

[pallid mesa]

mhm 😄

[trim plume]

Is that a yes?

[pallid mesa]

yup

[trim plume]

Ok.

Thank you very much for your time

Very appreciated

[pallid mesa]

no probs, ^^ we here if shit hits the fan

[trim plume]

I will try it out later when I've gotten something to eat

It might well be.. All day I've been pulling my hair..

🙈

[pallid mesa]

it's hard, so.... welp

[queen mortar]

Hey Im working on replicated movement with blueprints but I have a problem. I made it so sprinting is replicated and I also made that player cant sprint backwards and sideways but client Can sprint even back and sideways. Anyone know how to make it so client wouldnt be able to sprint sideways and backwards?

[bronze summit]

I'm working on a replicated chunk loader system. My chunks are currently actors with a mesh. Now I actually want to spawn the actors only on the clients in a specific cull distance (and thus limit the updates as for example players not in distance should not get mesh updates). Would NetCulling be sufficient enough or is the preferred method a custom replicationgraph?

[latent heart]

UE already has distance culling built in. You should probably use that?

[bronze summit]

Yeah I'll give that a shot and perhaps in the future depending on scalability I might change it

[harsh ice]

I spawned my weapon but when player level it's still visible

[visual urchin]

I'm using the replicated movement that comes with Unreal but it has a lot of stuttering. First gif is the server.

Second gif is the client.

I'm not sure if it's visible on the gifs though.

Here are my settings. Any idea of what could be causing this problem?

[past totem]

I can't tell what's the issue from the client gif

seems fine

[trim plume]

Thank you so much! I did what you said, and now I got player track position, laps and checkpoints working. Thanks again, really appreciated ☺️
Also, had to increase cull distance with a lot as well.

[pallid mesa]

you can make this tracking actor always relevant 😄

just look for bAlwaysRelevant in the class defaults @trim plume

Also, congrats! 🥳

[past totem]

what does bAlwaysRelevant even do

[pallid mesa]

makes the actor always relevant

meaning that it will matter for replication to all its connections always

[past totem]

no shit

lol

but for real what does it really do?

does it make the replication distance not matter or something?

I don't get it

I always just enable it for important actors that I want it to always replicate

[pallid mesa]

yes, it makes the replication distance not matter

[past totem]

but I don't get what it does

ahh, okay, thanks

[pseudo schooner]

Hey so...I have something I haven't seen before. Anyone know where to start looking? I have Actor A and Actor B. Both have working collision. Actor B has a Begin Overlap event that fires. If I am on the client, the overlap ONLY works on the client. If I am on the server, the overlap happens on both client and server. Both Actors are set to replicate, and I know collision is working because well...it works fine. It just seems that whenever a client starts this process (the server handles all actor spawning) the server's BeginOverlap function doesn't even attempt to fire

[twin juniper]

anyone know a different way i can do this? im not so good at networking but i swear there was another way to replicate this simple movement instead of having a client and server event (btw all of these are in an actor component)

[past totem]

I'm so confused

why is pitch and roll multicast

but yaw is server only

when they should all be server only

or atcually I mean

this is just so weird

[twin juniper]

oh i forgot to change it

honestly i just kept changing the replication until smth worked

[past totem]

show everything u r trying to do and only 1 part of it not 3 duplicated parts

[twin juniper]

I have a c++ function to rotate an actor, so I can have 6 DOF movement, I want this to be server replicated, all the code you see is in an actor component. The Roll Pitch and Yaw are called when the player presses down the keys, server roll, pitch, and yaw have the same code as client pitch, roll, and yaw, as seen in the image. The only difference between the two is the replication on the event. The replication works fine, I just thought there was a simpler way to do it.

[past totem]

this is one image

I'm missing more imgs for more context

[twin juniper]

all events have the same code except the inital Yaw, Roll, and Pitch event

[trim plume]

Thanks! Yea, I set it to always relevant when it was acting weird, but it turned out cull distance did the trick. The issue was that it worked a little while, but then it didn't. The map is huge, so makes sense 🙂
However, I just left the always relevant checked.

[pallid mesa]

if its always relevant it ignores the distance culling

[past totem]

is this on the player controller? why not use 1 multicast event instead of 2 events

[pallid mesa]

anyways Zzz time

[past totem]

oh wait this is dfferent code

I'm so confused

[twin juniper]

its in an actor component

[past totem]

literally no clue what u r trying to do

[twin juniper]

rotate the player

[past totem]

but where is the input to this?

where does it start

I'm missing more screenshots

[trim plume]

Hmm to me it didn't. I tried always relevant, but that didn't help. Then when I multiplied cull distance by some ridiculous amount, then it worked.

[trim plume]

Sleep tight. And thanks once again ☺️

[twin juniper]

input is in the player

[past totem]

wtf is this ??

[twin juniper]

the player pawn blueprint

[past totem]

you're killing me

[twin juniper]

i dont understand whats wrong

[past totem]

does this actually work?

[twin juniper]

yes

it replicates

[past totem]

that doesn't even make any sense

is this a dedicated srever or a listen server

[twin juniper]

or at least on a listen server

[past totem]

Multicast events only work when called from a server, and you are calling it from a client here (client input event)

[past totem]

ye it will only work on the listen server player, not other clients

[twin juniper]

ohhhh thats what they do

[past totem]

and the other issue is, u can't just call these events every frame

[twin juniper]

how should i do it then?

[past totem]

it will kill the network

[pallid mesa]

it should be something else prior to this setup, always relevant means... always relevant, gn!

[past totem]

I literally have no clue what u want to do

[trim plume]

Yea makes sense. But maybe I wasn't doing it properly then. That could might well be 😄

[twin juniper]

so basically, the input axes, Roll, Pitch, and Yaw, are meant to add Roll, Pitch and Yaw to the players rotation

[twin juniper]

the Roll Pitch and Yaw are controlled in the actor component via C++

[past totem]

why not use the movement component for that?

why do u need a custom solution?

[twin juniper]

because movement component doesnt allow for 6 DOF movement

[past totem]

what's 6 dof movement

[twin juniper]

this is a floating pawn character, I am using 6 dof to bypass the gimball lock

[twin juniper]

rotate 360 degrees in all directions

[past totem]

I'm pretty sure it does supportit

yea it does support it

I have it in my game a flying bird

u just have to enable something

[twin juniper]

no if you try to rotate pitch 360 degrees it will get stuck looking up

this is what the pawn actor looks like

i used the flying pawn template to start

[past totem]

what is this component based on?

[latent heart]

UActorComponent something something

[past totem]

I don't get what u mean, it works fine for me with a bird I can fly any direction up down left right

[twin juniper]

based on? it has no parent, I made an empty actor component

[past totem]

and where is the movement component ?

[twin juniper]

right here

my component

[past totem]

yea, what's that based on

[latent heart]

Movement components don't need to be scene components.

[twin juniper]

it has no parent

[twin juniper]

yes, this

[past totem]

so u made a custom movement component

why ?

flying works iwth the regular movement component

[twin juniper]

because 6 DOF wasnt working for me

[past totem]

it works

just delete everything

[twin juniper]

not in my experience

im good

[past totem]

and try again with the regular component

it will be too much effort to create ur own custom repliacted movement component as far as I know

and it works so just try harder to get it to work lol , it works for me

[twin juniper]

just tested as client, replication seems to work fine there as well with a dedicated server

[past totem]

and now enable network emulation in the play in editor project preferences

u r going about this all wrong

overcompliacted it and u will run into so many issues

u just have to use the eregular movement component cuz it works

gtg to eat

[twin juniper]

i did. it works fine

[past totem]

doesn't make sense, at least this shouldve broke

[twin juniper]

doesnt seem to

[past totem]

well then Idk what u r doing

[twin juniper]

neither do i

what does a multicast do?

i thought it meant that it cast to both server and client

[latent heart]

Sends an RPC from the server to every net relevant client.

[twin juniper]

ok so why shouldnt it be working here

and why does it anyways

[twilit radish]

If you’re referring to the screenshot from earlier, input comes from clients. A multicast can’t be directly called from a client, you RPC from the client to the server and then the server can do a multicast.

[twin juniper]

ok so should I change the event to server?

[twilit radish]

I’m still extremely confused about this entire discussion so not sure honestly. What is it you’re trying to achieve?

[latent heart]

A multicast from a client will just execute locally.

If you want to broadcast to evreyone, single-rpc to the server and have the server rpc broadcast it.

Bearing in mind that that will send the broadcast back to the original client.

[twin juniper]

i dont understand what this means

[past totem]

just delete everything

u can't run this on tick 3 times

[twin juniper]

no thank you

[past totem]

try to make the movement component work

show me why it won't work for u

I will help u

not with the other thing that's a lost cause

[twin juniper]

in your editor, when you are previewing the level, can you rotate 360 degrees along the pitch?

[past totem]

wait I will record it

[twin juniper]

ok

[past totem]

it's upaoding

https://gyazo.com/7094bb86d3cbb05ac7b179385a37672f

[twin juniper]

yes see you cant rotate 360 degrees along the pitch

[past totem]

I literally have no idea what u mean

Idk how it can be more 360 degrees than that

lol

[twin juniper]

do a loop in the air

[past totem]

I did it in the vid

[twin juniper]

here i upload video

[latent heart]

You mean he's gimbal locked, MAN?

[past totem]

finally something useful

[twin juniper]

exactly

i remove gimbal lock

[past totem]

ah

[twin juniper]

thats the point of the c++

[latent heart]

Quaternions ftw.

[twin juniper]

i said that earlier

[past totem]

Idk if this is possible with the movement compone then

[twin juniper]

its not

thats why i had to make this

[twin juniper]

also im glad the video caught another issue, sometimes it doesnt spawn the second client, i dont understand why

at first i thought it was collision issue, but both player starts are set to ignore collisions and spawn anyways

[latent heart]

Are you looking at it from the server PoV?

[twin juniper]

in play the network emulation is enabled, and both players are client, if thats what you mean

[latent heart]

Ah.

Are you using "single instance" ? (turn it off for better testing)

[twin juniper]

where do i set this?

[latent heart]

It's in the PIE menu in the 3 dot thing.

[past totem]

run as a single process?

or something like that

[latent heart]

That might be it. Turn it off.

[twin juniper]

ah yes this stops the issue

btw the replication still works in this mode as well

well actually not exactly the same as before, i changed the input events to server

though, do i need the 2 events, one to replicate on client and one on the server?

[past totem]

the real question is if u can actually run this on tick

I don't think so

[latent heart]

Sure you can.

[twin juniper]

seems to be working fine

should i add a branch to make sure the input isnt 0 just in case?

[latent heart]

Yes

It definitely will fire if it's 0 and it's a waste of bw

[past totem]

wouldnt it throttle it with so many network calls?

like the normal mveoemnt component works in a better way somehow I think maybe

[latent heart]

If they're unreliable it really doesn't matter.

[twin juniper]

ok done

i havent set any of them to reliable

i dont know what that means, and it seems to work fine without it

should I?

[past totem]

mm ok interesting

unreliable means that it';s ok to skip it if the network lags or something

[twin juniper]

is that a good thing?

or should I change it to reliable

[past totem]

well he said to keep it off

Idk in this case I never spam it

[twin juniper]

also i noticed that when the two actors collide, and then move away, the server location of the actor is different than how the client sees it

why does this happen?

[past totem]

u need to add movement correction

like in the normal movement component

I guess

where if the client is not at the position of the server, it corrects it

[twin juniper]

how do i do that

[past totem]

well u could just setup another server event to tell the server the location of the client

but Idk, these things need to be performant

this whole idea to make a cpp replicated movement component sounds too much

[twin juniper]

i just want 6 DOF movement thats network replicated

is there any tutorial anywhere?

[past totem]

usually for MP games I would just not take on ideas that require complicated stuff like that that arent supported already

I'm guessing no tutorials on this, too niche

maybe search the discord server

[twin juniper]

i searched for correction and wasnt able to find any results

do you think there is anyone on this server with an in depth knowledge of networking I could ask about this?

[plucky prawn]

Sure there is probably a dozen people on this server that could help you. I would not recommend messaging everyone to find out though. Try posting in the job channels

[twin juniper]

so what you mean is ill finish this by next year at best

[past totem]

like I said u shouild try to take on projects that are more fit to what you think you are able to do

and u also are just being weird about it like, I told u what u need to add next, client correction, but just asked who can tell u how to do the whole thing which is too generic and won't get u anywhere

but just this whole thing is too complicated

can't u come up with different gameplay

[plucky prawn]

if thats how you want to interpret that. like Tbjbu2 said, you can always choose to either not do this, or you can shelve this idea for later. maybe one day you will figure it out, or you will be in a position to have someone else do it

[twin juniper]

yeah i get it, thanks anyways

[thin stratus]

The only Code Class that gives you this is the CMC.

Forget about custom Network Movement of that degree if you can't either extend or write your own CMC.

Also iirc CMC is very much in love with Z-UP. When I wrote the Hoverdrone Movement Code with 6DOF, "driving" on walls and what not, I basically wrote my own CMC.

This is the precisely the stuff where Blueprints are just a small shitty tool that can't do what you want, where you gotta realize that it was never meant to become this big and can't replace C++.

[coral wing]

I'm trying to change the material of meshes on my clients. I've tried repnotify and and multicasts and they are being executed on clients but they aren't changing the material.

Also checked the material name on the mesh and it is changing but it's not displaying

[past totem]

u printed the material name on the client and it changed but it still shows the old material?

[coral wing]

Yes

[past totem]

weird

[coral wing]

Actually I was wrong. Apperently that print was from the server

So the server is going off and setting the rep notify. But rep notify isn't triggering on clients

[plucky prawn]

Are your clients net-relevant?

[past totem]

show all your graphs
show all your replication settings on each bp

and wdym being executed on the client and not changing the material

that doesn't make sense

if it is executing the set material with the material u provided then it should work no reason it won't

[coral wing]

I was wrong about that part. It's just printing on the server but it's not triggering the repnotify for the clients. mb.

Trying to figure out why it's not notifying the clients now

[plucky prawn]

#multiplayer message

[past totem]

repnotify is dumb ( half joklking) try a multicast event and see if that wokrs

[coral wing]

Ayyy apparently the actor wasn't set to replicate. Thanks for pointing out the basic stuff I somehow always manage to forget. Haha

[coral wing]

LOL

[oak prawn]

How can I lower the ping?

[plucky prawn]

be closer to the server

or just make it show less ping