I don't care about users disocvering the gameplay abilities system at all
#server-feedback
pliant halo
Its super complex system, thats shady af, but at the same time the foundation it is built on is insanely powerful, its one of the few insights you get intoo how big developers like epic handle things
brittle orchid
And thats hella important
rich sky
Exactly
chilly ivy
I recognize that. Why do you think I still haven't deleted it?
rich sky
Same with Sequencer, I know people have asked for that a few times
And linux especially..lol
brittle orchid
Aye, sequencer specific stuff gets crazy
chilly ivy
I can imagine. I'd love to get more film and arch viz folks involved here.
I try not to make things too game dev specific since Unreal is being used for so many things now.
rich sky
I mean, until channel organization happens officially
That's not a bad structure GDN has
chilly ivy
I can't friggin' wait for channel categories.
At this point, I'm more excited for that than video calls and screen sharing.
pliant halo
Screen sharing would be 10/10
chilly ivy
Both will have a transformative effect on this server.
But channel categories will be huge for UX.
Especially for something as complex as UE4.
brittle orchid
GDN's current categories definitely smart
chilly ivy
Yeah it's a pretty decent hack until categories arrive.
rich sky
@chilly ivy I don't know, just take a leap of faith today. Add in the following channels... what could go wrong really? #linuxsupport #sequencer #particlesystem #materialeditor #archvis
Takes two clicks
literally each
chilly ivy
lol
rich sky
(plus the typing of letters)
chilly ivy
You always act like it's nothing. "Two clicks"
rich sky
But it really is nothing though...
brittle orchid
I would go with straight #linux over #linuxsupport
chilly ivy
It's not just two clicks when your actions affect nearly 7,000 people.
rich sky
#linux sounds good
pliant halo
Particle channel would be nice actually
chilly ivy
I don't take a "move fast and break things" approach anymore, not with how large the community has gotten.
I used to in the Slack days.
rich sky
How is this going to "break" anything ?
chilly ivy
It's a saying.
pliant halo
I really like how this community is building up now though, would also advice being very careful changing stuff
chilly ivy
It means to make frequent changes and dealing with the consequences afterwards.
Common parlance in software development.
pliant halo
just like building a game! strong foundation first ๐ avoid issues later
rich sky
I get it. But, really, you're adding channel that are non-existent
chilly ivy
Agreed @pliant halo
pliant halo
Your worrying too much man
If pFist has gotten this far with the discord, he must be doing something right
pliant halo
he/she*
rich sky
?
Well, so, not to be too mean about this...
But he's not doing too much of anything lol
pliant halo
and its working
rich sky
It's the community that's keeping this alive.
pliant halo
Because this place has a good setup
was litrally talking about this before
with someone about @ everyone
rich sky
yeah, that's one click
chilly ivy
Go run a large community in your spare time @rich sky, then get back to me.
rich sky
good stuff
pliant halo
the way things are setup work, and its good compared too other discords
rich sky
But the thing is @chilly ivy you don't?
chilly ivy
Please don't give me all the credit @pliant halo. I've had moderators for a long time who have been a tremendous help.
rich sky
What do you consider "running a large community" ?
pliant halo
I know what its like man, me and few others run a 350 man gaming group and it can be a fuck feast
rich sky
Gotta play devil's advocate here.
You created a server, named it, added rules, got some mods, post some announcements
pliant halo
its not that easy trust me
rich sky
I know it's not
But, this is what the people see
Again, just trying to make sure the perception is understood
pliant halo
Just like with games, all you see is the front and not whats going on behind closed doors :p
rich sky
@pliant halo I know you're only trying to help, but you're too new to the community still.
pliant halo
not sure been here for over 6 months
pliant halo
yeah
rich sky
Well I stand corrected
pliant halo
is there away i can check?
pliant halo
Started college around 9 months ago, start ue4 in first week
after that
found this group when i got stuck
so its prob around 6-8 months iv been here
brittle orchid
He's been here since 10/2016
rich sky
You found it?
chilly ivy
He's been here almost as long as we've been on Discord. Enough.
chilly ivy
@rich sky As you so clearly stated earlier, we have search.
pliant halo
Its not about fitting it for just few people, you need to scope it well to hit as many audiances as you possibly can
pliant halo
and its bad to make changes to fit for people without taking things in too consideration
pliant halo
cough cough final fantasy world first launch kept changing shit and there game fell apart so fast it was unreal
chilly ivy
Right, back on topic.
rich sky
So, back to "running a community in your spare time"
You received a dev grant for it.
What you used that money for, it's your own personal business.
Do you think that because of that, you feel that "it basically your way or no way" ? That you have to take on the burden by yourself?
chilly ivy
This has nothing to do with the grant.
rich sky
You have your mods, not sure how much other than "moderation" you utilize them actually.
I would think of your mods as Lts.
pliant halo
Why does it matter, just leave him/her too it? Your litrally always having disuptes with people victor, get this vibe you have this sense of "i think i know better"
celest zenith
Grand Overlord Pfist
rich sky
@pliant halo You can now exit the conversation, as you're completely missing the point obviously.
rich sky
You see what you only want to see.
chilly ivy
Keep it civil, follks.
pliant halo
If things are going well, why not just leave thie admins and mods its not like things are going down
rich sky
If I were an issue, I would have been taken care of by now, trust me.
The banhammer is real around here.
@pliant halo Because it's not...
pliant halo
I never said you where an issue at all
chilly ivy
Guys, stop.
chilly ivy
Take your petty arguments to a private conversation.
rich sky
I am trying to say that his perception on the current situation is very limited.
He's looking at things on a smaller scale, instead of the overview
pliant halo
Thats your opinion and your entitled too it, but im just lining my self with facts right now
This place works.
rich sky
That's not a fact though, your opinion.
Because we wouldn't be having this conversation is it was a fact.
Or the other countless times is been brought up
pliant halo
My time here, i have had sucess and gained what i needed here, and helped other people gain what they need, i thought thats what this place is for?
pliant halo
Then for me, its been successful
rich sky
Congrats
But for others, it's not...
That's the point
Can we please everyone? Nope.
brittle orchid
All I knows is this server is great for getting people introduced to UE4. After that, very few top talent stays because there is either nothing for them, server becomes too unconvienent, or they simply 'graduate'. I think overall less and more broad channels are more welcoming to newcomers and people trying to learn the engine as opposed to people who can use the engine autonomously are the bigger audience.
rich sky
But, we sure can always do better.
brittle orchid
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
chilly ivy
Agreed @brittle orchid
rich sky
@chilly ivy So are you okay with that?
chilly ivy
OK with what?
chilly ivy
I just agreed with Allar. Same thing you did seconds ago... lol
pliant halo
I mean what victor said
chilly ivy
Dude, give it a rest and move on please.
pliant halo
I dont think you d id
rich sky
So, you are okay with it.
pliant halo
Your perception is narrow ๐
chilly ivy
I agreed with what Allar said. Not sure how much clearer that gets.
rich sky
You all have a nice day.
magic turtle
@rich sky Karma systems always end bad and hacked by @brittle orchid 
pliant halo
"'. I think overall less and more broad channels are more welcoming to newcomers and people trying to learn the engine as """opposed"""" to people who can use the engine autonomously are the bigger audience."
brittle orchid
What @rich sky is getting at is my statement implies this server is irrelevant for experts
And actually drives them away
chilly ivy
Well, I don't see any evidence to refute that.
chilly ivy
Quite the contrary. There are very few well-known experts here.
pliant halo
Im not sure what you class as experts
chilly ivy
Look at the top pedigree in the Unreal community. You won't find very many of them here, unfortunately.
pliant halo
But i know Lethal, Sion, Allar, Luos and Kris know there stuff
brittle orchid
I'm saying its okay to not be an expert group, Victor thinks this server should expand to accomodate them.
I used to think it could but I'm now realizing it can't and probably shouldn't
chilly ivy
Very sad to say, but it might be true.
Unfortunately, without experts, it's questionable what the newbies are learning.
It seems like a catch 22.
brittle orchid
The biggest reasons I'm here is to occasionally bug Darnell through other means than twitter and to market myself
#sellout
brittle orchid
Aye, everyone is here for a reason
I like to help people, but theres also a selfish gain for helping people en mass
pliant halo
lmao
I get you
Blueprint channel can sometimes storm and its a pain to help everyone
chilly ivy
So @brittle orchid would you agree that the reason people like Hourences, etc. aren't here is because there's little for an established expert to gain here unless they're specifically out to teach new developers for free?
brittle orchid
Its because theres no one for them to talk to
sleek warren
I actually agree with Allar
brittle orchid
Thats the general feeling of people who share Victor's points and general avoidance of this server
sleek warren
usually channels are filled with people who are too lazy to even use google or search around before asking
it's not even healthy
pliant halo
THIS ^
magic turtle
@chilly ivy what you said is true aswell
sleek warren
then you spend one hour trying to explain to someone he needs to wire TWO nodes
and then even that fails
pliant halo
Its why i always push with hints to push them in the right direction, and explain too them no point in me just giving u guided way to do it with out you understanding
sleek warren
and then you start questioning yourself, like what you do in a place like this?
magic turtle
here is not a lot of people to learn from at some point atleast of game dev
brittle orchid
Those guys enjoy helping people, and they often help people for free
magic turtle
I'm here just for the fun
pliant halo
Actually the worst is by far
"im gonna make a game like PUBG"
"how do i make the crouch animation happen"
i litrally had that today
for like 2 hours
from this one guy
magic turtle
Actually "developers" usually don't enter here, I'm here since the first for the fun and improve english, aswell can ask some random things but that is all
celest zenith
why this whole conversation is so lounge ready?
brittle orchid
Imagine if Tim Sweeney came in to talk casually, who the hell is he going to converse with
chilly ivy
@celest zenith This is on topic. We're discussing the state of the community.
magic turtle
@brittle orchid that is an extreme case
brittle orchid
But it isn't
sleek warren
@celest zenith you haven't been following, #work-in-progress is new #lounge now, then #ue4-general is new #lounge now, and now #server-feedback is the new #lounge now
basically everything but old #lounge is now lounge
magic turtle
still we can talk in lounge that for sure, main cause I'm here tbh @brittle orchid
chilly ivy
@sleek warren Obviously every channel is the new lounge.
ocean siren
hey the other channels are more active, ok?
pliant halo
i kinda get what you mean, i try and keep up but some of the things allar and sion for example can say, i cant even grasp there is such a big difference
sleek warren
@chilly ivy it kinda happens when you take the lounge and put it out of sight, people have to take that conversation somewhere ๐
brittle orchid
@pliant halo That difference isn't because of skill or knowledge, its because of framework context
sleek warren
@brittle orchid first of all, nobody would believe he would be Tim
chilly ivy
Maybe the sensible way to involve experts here isn't to try to convince them to chat here, but to invite them to do scheduled AMAs. Discord has voice chat (and soon video/screen sharing), after all.
brittle orchid
I can tell you more than you ever need to know about #gameframework but if you wanted to know about #renderingpipeline I couldn't say a damn thing
pliant halo
Man epic should be investing people here imo, because this is basically flurishing there engine more, and even if 1 in 1000 people launch a sucessful game, it helps them make money & spread the word ue4=lyf
sleek warren
well, they only give grants to people who make tutorials basically, or found a slack/discord group but that ship has sailed ๐
celest zenith
where is that categories?
chilly ivy
@celest zenith Still delayed unfortunately. ๐ฆ
brittle orchid
Because we have just generall #cpp, its super easy to get lost when we talk about specific concepts
chilly ivy
Waiting as patiently as I can.
pliant halo
True that
brittle orchid
So if anything specific gets mentioned, the entire channel is alienated
But because alienation doesn't really work like that
Its more like the people talking about the specific things get alienated
pliant halo
True ^
chilly ivy
Yeah. Suddenly they are "taking over" a more general purpose channel.
pliant halo
Not gonna lie though you and Sion have done some really good break downs for me and other people
chilly ivy
And others who aren't on that subject might want to discuss something else.
sleek warren
btw, I don't even know what this whole talk is about, I just came here because #lounge is quiet
chilly ivy
@sleek warren We're discussing the state of the community. This is on topic, not another lounge. ๐
sleek warren
well, state of community is lazy ๐
rich sky
I'm just reading since words...are hard
celest zenith
@rich sky soon you get bot read every line ๐
with the face expressions of course
brittle orchid
The 25k user facebook group is an excellent example of my earlier point
There are no categories
Average post is dumb as hell
pliant halo
yeah i hate the fb group, cant get anything across
If your talking about the ue4 devs one
brittle orchid
Is great for getting something out to the masses though
You make one helpful statement, you get 5-10 friend requests, followers, blah
But nothing you get is going to be in your wheelhouse
ocean siren
If you're talking about the FB group I'd have no idea, but as far as I can tell being accurate and helpful here is either normal, you become an accidental mentor to guide them through the entire process, or they start getting mad at you for some other reason. Its 90% normal, for the record.
brittle orchid
Aye, if you're in #blueprint and you're talking #blueprint you're going to mostly be with people who are all about #blueprint so you can just be a person with people talking about #blueprint
ocean siren
Maybe its just #blueprint people that do that, actually.
brittle orchid
#blueprint is actually quite better than #cpp in many ways, I believe one of the factors is because blueprint is essentially a subset of programming
Aye
ocean siren
Cause I do tend to mostly help BP people
pliant halo
bp people can be the best or worst too teach
chilly ivy
That's inevitable with a visual scripting system that makes programming more accessible.
You're bound to get a large number of people who have zero clue what they're doing and have never made software before.
But even among those people, everyone learns differently, so that's a factor, too.
brittle orchid
#umg is actually more a tiny subset of programming rather than art creation; and because its so narrow, it seems like Darnell, the UI friggen expert/creator, hangs out there
chilly ivy
Language barriers, as well.
@brittle orchid That channel was Darnell's suggestion, if I remember correctly.
brittle orchid
Aye, experts love being in narrow subsets
ocean siren
"Make this channel and I'll just sit in there 90% of the time"
chilly ivy
brittle orchid
Its for both, but rarely is it used for design, thus making it a great place to discuss ui code
ocean siren
Can we get a #procrastination channel so I can just sit in that channel? Obv an expert in the field
brittle orchid
UI design seems to happen more in #work-in-progress
chilly ivy
UMG and Slate are both considered on-topic for the channel, so that's fine.
I mean, it mostly ends up being discussion about programming UMG blueprints or Slate code.
Again, going back to what I see as a lack of support for artists here.
chilly ivy
#graphics is too broad and sounds at first read like it's for programmers.
In which Nick shames his own past decisions.
ocean siren
Actually, how much does this server need specific artist channels? Reason I bring this up is that there's likely to be communities which better serve, say, Modo. If you're really about being trim and specific to UE, is the lack of artist specific channels really an issue?
chilly ivy
Well, the art pipeline is a big component of Unreal. It's not all programming and design, you know.
brittle orchid
If you bring in the #shader community, you're gonna see some wild shit
brittle orchid
Its a shader discussion
But it doesn't bring in shader artists
It brings in people asking about how to do things with shaders and people going uhhhhh maybe this way?
chilly ivy
True.
I don't think we can bring in shader artists, let alone anyone else already doing cool shit with Unreal, unless there's something in it for them beyond getting help/tech support.
brittle orchid
Other shader artists is whats in it for them
thats all people really want at that level
chilly ivy
Other similar experts to pick brains with?
chilly ivy
100%
pliant halo
We have a tutorial sub channel for channel, and every now and again we do youtube tutorials and link them in the tutorial sub channel for a channel, and have it so u can only read from that channel,
ok nvm allar just said it
lmfao
chilly ivy
lol
pliant halo
Point was having a reliable set of tutorials
Because u really cant tell when your new
What is good practice and what is total crap
brittle orchid
When people replace google with other people, thats a seperate problem on its own
pliant halo
true
rich sky
Pretty sure that was my idea a week ago
ocean siren
But now you're getting into who curates the tutorials
rich sky
Tutorial channel... ;)
chilly ivy
I think a Github repo we can all contribute to would be good for that. But there's already a lot of other resource lists out there, so I've been slow to get that started.
Not sure if people want yet another one.
But I like the idea of a community-vetted resource list where anyone can submit a PR, bring up issues, voice their concerns, etc.
All ine one place.
ocean siren
If we're vetting the tutorials, how do we know the people dedicating the time to doing so are going to be picking the best tutorial on a topic?
pliant halo
it dosent all have to be fresh materials i guess
Stuff just needs checking out
There is alot of tutorials online that are ugh
Not good for foundation learning
chilly ivy
@ocean siren Ideally, the concept is that anyone can pop in and bring up an issue "This tutorial is teaching the wrong way of doing things, etc." for example.
chilly ivy
Oh, I thought you were responding specifically to me.
brittle orchid
There is a problem with bringing people in narrow fields together though, if you get enough of them they might leave and start a persistent google hangout call
pliant halo
tbh i wouldnt listen to me though, im one of them people who use AbilitySystem, and we are all the devils work
brittle orchid
Because those types of hangout calls are magic
chilly ivy
I've heard legends.
brittle orchid
Which is one of the reasons why it might not even be worthwhile to bring in those people
And why tailoring to non-experts is the best for the community
You could possibly convert that situation by getting those people together and having a public listen-only session, but that removes some of the magic
chilly ivy
Indeed.
pliant halo
sorry to detail a second but
idk wtf happened with allar's discord image in the chat scroll down, just litrally zoomed in too his mouth for no reason then reset
pliant halo
jfc i was so confused
brittle orchid
I don't have the art skills
chilly ivy
Nested Allars would be awesome.
pliant halo
I personally would love to hear some top tier discussions / good practice / system setup examples from experianced people
ocean siren
I nest all my allars
chilly ivy
@pliant halo That's what I was thinking with AMAs. Bringing in experts to promote their projects and answer questions about their field of expertise.
Also, I would listen to a talk show-style Unreal podcast so hard.
brittle orchid
The best talks you can get are talks that don't want to be made public
chilly ivy
Well of course, but this would be the next best thing.
The magic talks could happen on Discord, though. Private group calls (though people still seem to prefer Hangouts, probably because it's familiar).
brittle orchid
Things like people playing a drinking game every time they misconnect a bp wire
chilly ivy
lol
brittle orchid
Are great, but can't be public <_<
ocean siren
I would be down for a public dev stream w/ a drinking game
Would obviously help the community
brittle orchid
The idea is you play with people who aren't prone to making many mistakes
The result is an exponential curve of professional mistakes
ocean siren
Oh I realized
rich sky
So, after all this fantastic chatting. I just want to know, are things going to change a bit? Will you be taking some of our suggestions to improving the community @chilly ivy ? Or will you continue maintaining the status quo?
ocean siren
If you wanted more channels I don't think its unreasonable to wait for the category thing
pliant halo
Does this class as an error @brittle orchid allar? it works lmao
slender blade
I definitely think there needs to be a serious discussion about both the moderation and the rules. Currently, non-existent rules are being enforced on the moderators' terms, while (part of) the community disagrees with what is being enforced. When addressing it we get: "Deal with it or leave if you don't like it." I don't know about the rest of this server, but I feel that that's goddamn toxic and is not a good way to run a sustainable community - which I assume is what we all want this to be.
rich sky
Yeah, think I forgot to mention this as part of the problem as well.
stoic goblet
@chilly ivy scrolling up i saw your guys's discussion about #gameplay-ability-system... while I'm highly biased since I wanted it made... I think the biggest benefit to it is to expand a niche group that would otherwise wither out
this server is community run, so you guys can do things that Epic wont do, like have marginal support for things like the gameplay ability stuff, even if it's just a channel
might be much easier to deal with once we have channel categories though
an #advanced-programming channel might be good as well, given that the general #cpp channel tends to get swamped with beginner questions and more advanced things get ignored
chilly ivy
@stoic goblet Yeah, channel cats will definitely be a huge help.
And I agree that, as an unofficial community, we have a greater ability to support niche topics.
That may be worth leveraging more in the future.
celest zenith
should there be #ar channel?
celest zenith
what about #virtual-reality to #mr
sonic hazel
@chilly ivy Can a channel #particles be added? I feel like its too seperate from #graphics
drowsy oxide
Even renaming #graphics to #art would make more sense, as @gritty lotus has already suggested elsewhere.
gritty lotus
oh hai
drowsy oxide
๐
gritty lotus
also yes ๐
gritty lotus
whilst we're here - changing #virtual-reality to #virtual-reality&AR makes some sense (the other acronyms are all essentially brands, so I don't like using them)
chilly ivy
Changing #graphics to #art is definitely worth considering. I'm interested in attracting more artists. Though splitting it into multiple channels may make more sense.
Discord is getting channel categories soon, at which point we plan to execute a pretty comprehensive channels redesign.
Re: renaming #virtual-reality, I've thought about that, too.
Might even do #virtual-reality-ar-mr.
timid coral
agreed for the graphics into art part
chilly ivy
I've also seen the umbrella term XR (extended reality) pop up recently, though not sure if it will catch on.
But an umbrella term that captures VR, AR and MR would be nice.
timid coral
XR is still a niche term imo
chilly ivy
Yeah, seems that way to me, too.
timid coral
"immersion" ?
chilly ivy
That's too broad and has other uses that precede VR/AR/etc.
chilly ivy
I agree that MR may be redundant, as it basically seems to be AR.
gritty lotus
VR = person immersed in digital content, AR = digital content in the real world - there are no other valid terms really
it's Real in Digital, or Digital in Real, take your pick, hehe
chilly ivy
Some people would argue it's a spectrum.
gritty lotus
sort of true, but there's not that much of a grey area
chilly ivy
Also, what does XR have to do with Microsoft?
I thought it was coined by Eddie Offerman from Mirada Studios.
gritty lotus
it's what Microsoft is using as the buzzword to promote their new hardware
gritty lotus
no, the platform is called 'Windows Mixed Reality', but their marketing refers to it using the 'three pillars of XR' etc
either way, it's not a widely used term
gritty lotus
I think they think they coined it
chilly ivy
Research suggests they did not coin it.
gritty lotus
IMHO VR-AR is fine, we all know what it covers without complicating things xD
sleek warren
unity uses xr everywhere
clip from their beta changelog XR: GearVR HMD Touchpad does not currently send input through the new input system. XR: Haptics with Vive controller is currently disabled due to issues with correctly playing haptics on the correct controller XR: Hololens / UWP / PS4 VR Devices not yet supported with the new input system for VR use.
doesn't mean it's the correct term
also, khronos uses it
well, actaully khronos doesn't use XR itself, their standard is OpenXR and it covers VR and AR
Announcing OpenXRโข: The Khronos Virtual Reality Initiative announced in December is making rapid progress in designing an open standard for portable Virtual Reality and Augmented Reality apps and devices. Today, Khronos releases the official name of the standard: OpenXR
but yeah, I agree VR-AR is fine
gritty lotus
if Unity does it, then we obviously shouldn't ๐
silk tulip
Can we get a #linux channel?
sonic hazel
Can we get a #particles channel? :3
pliant halo
Can we rename or add ( suffix ) or something too the graphics / ui or something, more too clarify where we talk about materials, ui, particle effects
is blueprint for materials?
drowsy oxide
I think there should be an seperate channel just for Materials.
silver heath
Graphics channel is not so crowded these days. It can be safely used for discussions about materials.
celest zenith
are there anyway to see how many users in discord like it was in slack?
elfin scarab
I think there is a funky command
celest zenith
would be nice how much people we have here
sleek warren
moderators get access to that data afaik
celest zenith
discord lack of that where slack was good
wintry laurel
Bot is down, but yes we have ability to see that
iron estuary
hey howd you set a new start channel? this a perk of being a partner?
chilly ivy
@iron estuary No. Everyone can do it now. The update went live a couple days ago.
I didn't even do anything. The default channel is now the highest channel in the list that you have permission to see.
So it happened automatically.
iron estuary
ahh cool
golden talon
Is this where we make suggestions for the server ?
I was wondering if we could get a tutorial channel . Where people can post links to good tutorials they have made or found kind of like the streaming channel but for game related tutorials only
sonic hazel
@chilly ivy
chilly ivy
?
sonic hazel
I made 2 times the request for #particles but it seems like its totally ignored
cascade cant really be compaired with graphics
chilly ivy
I've mentioned previously that it's coming with the next stage of channel updates, which will happen when channel categories launch.
sonic hazel
You did? I read back but didnt saw anything on it.. My bad then
chilly ivy
No worries. It's been brought up a lot, but I don't have a good way of tracking status of requests.
Not sure how yet, but I'd like to do something like that in the future so people aren't asking stuff here without any idea what's actually being considered.
chilly ivy
I was thinking more along the lines of a public Trello board or something.
That way ideas can be voted on and clearly labeled as under consideration, rejected, in development, etc.
deft raft
Well then go for it
slender blade
Was thinking that too
Then you can also e.g. just have a note on a suggestion saying it'll be added once categories are here
sleek warren
!request free pizza
magic turtle
x2
celest zenith
Pizza delivery to all unrealslackers that sounds great
silk tulip
@chilly ivy Is it possible to get a #linux and a #effects channel?
pliant halo
might need to change #gameplay-ability-system too something like gameplay-abilities-Plugin, always get confused randomers looking for blueprint ๐
silk tulip
@chilly ivy please ban all usage of http://lmgtfy.com It's insulting and only seems to worsen channels not better them.
also can I get a linux channel please?
chilly ivy
Linux and VFX channels are both under consideration, but we're not adding any new channels until channel categories are released.
Not sure if lmgtfy is bad enough to ban, but that's something I hadn't thought of before. Thanks for bringing it up.
celest zenith
seems like categories could come up soon
rich sky
I don't think LMGTFY is ban worthy.
Definitely has its place
But, I just searched the server... and barely anyone uses it
celest zenith
@chilly ivy what you think of video coming to discord?
rich sky
chilly ivy
@celest zenith It's great.
Video calls and screensharing will enable a lot of people to ditch Skype and Google Hangouts.
sleek warren
@silk tulip just look around this group right now, people ask SUPER trivial things that simple google search would solve for them
now most just ignore them
you have to admit, giving at least some help with lmgtfy link is tempting
IMO people expecting to get spoonfed on every step is bigger issue than people who actually give links that tell what to do
it's supposed to be a hint for the person that he/she could do some research as it usually gets you your answers on trivial matters
instead, we seem to go into opposite direction, where some people just dedicate their time to feed this kind of mentality
just look at answerhub badges
nobody can get to top-3 to earn that badge by actually giving answers on mainly advanced and hard to solve issues
you get those badges by answering tons of posts where people just want the answer given to them instead of going a google search
silk tulip
We shouldn't create a community around insults
sleek warren
it doesn't have to be taken as insult but as a hint
sturdy swan
what is imgtfy
sleek warren
I mean, that's the whole reason for that site
silk tulip
it fails because most see it as an insult
sturdy swan
o hwait
sleek warren
@sturdy swan "let me google that for you"
sturdy swan
thats a L i know what that is
sleek warren
it types the question on google and opens the search results
sturdy swan
thought it was a image site by the name lol
all the problems im having right now are too specific for google, and part of the reason is idk what my exact problem is
silk tulip
yup
and it was also clear when it was used last the person has at least attempted to google
but failed to come up with proper keywords
sleek warren
yeah, that's sometimes a possibility
sturdy swan
i just spend my time doing things i at least know how to do instead of just sitting on my problem waiting for someone to come help me fix it
like i just made a base character class that shares a % progress hp bar across any class you chose
silk tulip
So I would say it really has no need here. We should be understanding and yes, make sure people google and learn how to get the right keywords
sleek warren
having specific questions is not the issue, not at all
silk tulip
we don't need hints though, we need to help people learn how to google and how to search.
sleek warren
that's why people are here, to share knownledge and just chat with fellow devs
sturdy swan
alot of times i ask a question and keep tinkering and answer it myself but ive been stuck on this last problem for about 4.5 hours now lol
sturdy swan
a lot of people dont know what theyr egetting into with this stuff so they expect it to be a lot less complicated than it is
silk tulip
people will figure it out
giving someone a link to something you most likely already have open is silly and insulting most the time.
sturdy swan
are you guys UE4 pros?
silk tulip
I am
sleek warren
anyway, banning links will not solve the issue regardless
as most people don't read the rules here
heck, they don't even read the channel topics usually
silk tulip
sure it's more or less banning the attitude not the actual link
silk tulip
I just recently had to save and load a game in UE4 using their save system
cause I've been making multiplayer games that use server side persistance
It wasn't difficult.
It's really just opening and reading/writing a file.
sturdy swan
dude this save and load networking frontend stuff got me all screwed up
silk tulip
hmm?
sturdy swan
and then i try to fix it and mess it up more
silk tulip
lets talk about it in #cpp
So anyways I just think overall what happened in #cpp today could simply be avoided by ensuring we don't insult people when trying to tell people that their google fu wasn't up to snuff. They sometimes already know that and are coming here defeated. Other times need to be taught the right ways to use google not just TO use google.
sturdy swan
hes definitely right,
sleek warren
oh wow
actual issue wasn't the lmgfy link
but that person asking for help starting to call people retards
just the nerve of some people
sturdy swan
what time did that stuff happen i want to look
silk tulip
the reaction isn't justified. No one was saying it was.
sleek warren
I dunno, that would be instaban from me
that kind of attitude is not welcome here
sturdy swan
i just found that lol
silk tulip
I can understand where the angry is coming from is all I am saying.
sleek warren
well, just by looking at that, it doesn't seem like avoiding insulting the guy/girl was ever an option
silk tulip
I don't think that's 100% true
sleek warren
the person was clearly frustrated already
silk tulip
sure but that vs the response I gave shortly after to them?
Clearly my response is pandering too much to them by straight feeding the answer. Not great but after escalation I did it in order to calm down frustrations
ocean siren
IDK I've been told to get out of the server (stronger language) because somebody else told somebody to google after spending 30 minutes helping the person beforehand.
There's a certain point where the person just wants to be mad at people who know more
But that being said I go with the ignore route rather than the lmgtfy route as of late
silk tulip
honestly setting up a lmgtfy wastes more of your time and their time than it's worth for a cheesy way to say dude, listen what is your issue and what keywords are you using in google to try to find it?
Are you searching answerhub/engine/docs/etc? is much quicker and imho comes off as less rough and less of an insult.
So I just didn't/don't see the need to the actual links.
ocean siren
Nah like I was helping the dude and he told me to fuck off
because someone else had once told him that they were tired of "google fu"
And the person thought that I was following them around telling them to google
silk tulip
well sure in cases like that you would simply ignore/get a mod/etc
ocean siren
I don't really think its helpful to police the attitude of people who can help but think the person is lazy as much as it may be beneficial to police the attitude of people looking for cheap answers and walkthroughs
: giving someone a link to something you most likely already have open is silly and insulting most the time.
^ And if I can open a doc link or some kind of search which has good results and explains things better than I have time for, or care too, then what's really fantastic is that linking to the docs or a search is seen as insulting
Because if I copied over excerpts it'd do as good a job, but waste my time and deprive context
silk tulip
That's not really how I meant that and you know it.
ocean siren
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
And you can pass information on how to get better searches via lmgtfy links
ue4 <problem> is always better than <problem>
But regardless of how you meant it- there are people who hold the opinion/stance which I am responding to with that message
silk tulip
I mean you can do that with regular google links too and it doesn't contain a swear word in it?
ocean siren
That's probably the most valid point agaisnt the domain so far
dunno if I passed over that point already
silk tulip
that's kind of what I meant by it was an insulting website
it swears at you
its not a professional website and you wouldn't give a co-worker that website even if they were (and they do sometimes) ask you terribly silly questions.
That said I know we are a community but I thought we simply had more respect than that for ourselfs and eachother.
rich sky
HMm
I'm just wondering: https://gyazo.com/a47987a3b6535c72eb0d42886e4770ed
Some of the questions that person asked, are very basic though
If you look at the history
But anyway, I usually jus tlink to official docs after a few minutes
What I hate, is when the answer is in said doc, and they say that they have gone through it and not found anything to help their situation out.
sleek warren
that's the typical marketing speech though, you always know everything when you describe what you can do
it's not all lies necessarily either
also when starting with new engine, it can indeed be difficult to know the right keywords for searching things, I've started from scratch for 3 major game engines in recent years so I kinda know where that's coming from
but regardless what your background is, you still don't go calling people retards who try to help you ๐
hardy elm
That's not a typical marketing speech that's a typical human experience to actually research and be curious about things
obviously somebody got curious enough to come in here and ask questions
Should they be met with a wall of links telling them to f*** off and go look elsewhere?
But we should also expect that they've done their due diligence before showing up here and just asking basic questions about anything that's in the documentation or searchable upon the internet
It takes two people to dance
Show me that you're willing to learn before you waste my time asking me to teach you
And yes for the smartass who asked: I am a professional of 25 years.
celest zenith
vr mr ar channel
ocean yacht
your server sucks!
that is my feedback
that is all
i do not know of who i talk about though
:-p
deft raft
Feedback would be explaining why you think the server is bad.
rich sky
Lol. Pretty sure that wasn't an honest opinion, just looked at his/her history, nothing stood out. If anything, they've been using the server to its full potential.
elfin scarab
i actually wouldnt react that way, but that is just me, but i do think thats not enough reason to ban a person, one tried to joke about a situation and the other one didnt take it well, but there is no room to do drama about it imo
deft raft
I did not ban anyone. I didn't even give an infraction. So what's the problem? I didn't like his "joke", that's all.
magic turtle
Yeah its not the place to make "jokes" at all, and there are different kind of jokes
sleek warren
@elfin scarab what would you expect? person just came to this channel bashing the whole server, didn't give any feedback and none of his/her messagehistory shows why he/she should be so pissed off
for all we know, @ocean yacht could have been drunk or is fanboy/girl of other engine, but in the end we can't tell by that feedback anything
or well, I wouldn't even call that feedback, as it isn't
elfin scarab
was speaking about barbaricia pv didnt check that out, about evenios, it sounds like a sarcastic thingy
sleek warren
ah, the person who called people trying to help her retards
well, I'd at least give a warning
that's not appropriate
elfin scarab
yeah, totally, thats why i said it
deft raft
.> then please say what you are referring to
sleek warren
@chilly ivy could those voice channels (lounge 1-3) be removed?
nobody really uses them, and if you misclick on one, it just spies you
and since discord is discord, we can't even hide them
magic turtle
rater keep one voice channel and remove the GDC one ?
deft raft
No one is really uses any of these. Most poeple have their own private server
We tried the voice channels when moving just to see if they are used.
I would also suggest removing them. Maybe keeping one
ocean siren
I jumped in voice a few days ago... but not like you can't just make a group call or something
clear quest
I think #gameplay-ability-system should be #gameplay-abilities-plugin
worldly void
suggestion: there are too many channels
celest zenith
not enough channels
deft raft
@worldly void Would you mind telling us what channel you would remove and why?
worldly void
I don't necessarily work with unreal but #legacy-physics for one seems sort of unnecessary and redundant
I would think that would fit under other categories like #cpp
rich sky
heh
I mean technically, we could have everything under one channel
But no, it's nice that different aspects of the engine can be talked about in specific channels
Rather than flooding one particular channel
celest zenith
I bet @rich sky want to get #mediaframework channel?
brittle orchid
#mediaframework ? More like #killme
celest zenith
not #sequencer?
brittle orchid
Aye, #sequencer would be aight
I'm just saying the media framework is a pain in the ass
And its currently being re-done, again
sleek warren
@worldly void you say that as you don't use it yourself
look at the channel, it's actively used
also, before there were dedicated physics channel, people stuck physics discussions in #ue4-general #blueprint and #cpp and it got all mixed into those places
in reality, people who do physics in UE4, don't follow all those channels actively so dedicated channel makes perfect sense
same applies to other specific channels really
with your logic, AI channel shouldn't exist either
ocean yacht
@sleek warren sorry i was joking. i didnt mean to cause a war
clear quest
Is it time for an #arkit channel ?
#ar-kit
Should #share-your-stream be re-worked to fit all UE4 related media? Most of the time it is pretty dead in there and I post duplicate times. Might be good if it could be used to share youtube tutorials, etc
Blog posts
maybe #training-material
Or.. #learning-content
Something along those lines?
deft raft
I would like to rework most of this into database bot functions
Where you type "!whoisstreaming" and you receive a private message with a list and links
Tons of possibilities. Currently the whole bot/server is way too basic
celest zenith
@deft raft why not "Who is streaming?"
deft raft
Just an example
!streams might be better
Commands for bots are easier if kept without spaces
deft raft
The database?
Not at all
If it's once setup for jobs, the rest is just changing some names and setting up new tables
celest zenith
intents, entities, utterances for bot so those can be stored in database
brittle orchid
Ue4.live @dim heron 's bot works well
Hell, works better than UnrealEngine hosting (which is now manual and infrequent)
iron path
Is this a section where you can discuss secuirty related issues and topics of UE?
open radish
Suggestion: A channel where people can discuss compiling the engine, or maybe just a channel for C++ / C# stuff
open radish
fair point
slender blade
Since when does UE4 in any way use C#? o.O
rich sky
@slender blade years ago?
But better support since a month ago?
Also, pretty sure 15% of ue4 is C#
celest zenith
there is build.cs so figure it out
sleek warren
yeah, most of the tools are done in c#
slender blade
Right, it's mostly a source thing, then?
You can't actually program your game in c# in editor, right?
celest zenith
@brittle orchid yeah so ridiculous that it dont do but just cancel
stoic goblet
Just noticed in #more-resources channel:
Channels prefixed with ue- are for discussing/getting help with specific areas of Unreal Engine 4.
I guess it's a note from the past? probably need o update the message ๐
chilly ivy
@stoic goblet Thanks for pointing that out. Fixed!
finite dune
Would it be worth adding an audio-mixer channel for those of us who opted into the new features?
open radish
Add the FredBoat music bot PLZ!! @chilly ivy
cinder star
If I destroy an actor via Destroy(); do I have to delete it in the memory afterwards somehow?
shut thunder
Ban politics across the UE slackers channels it has gotten to a cancerous point. That I am thinking about leaving.
rich sky
@shut thunder what is the exact issue?
shut thunder
@rich sky certain people have been just constanly complaining in #lounge and in PMs to me about political shit.
It is getting tiring
rich sky
Ah. TBH, we should let people vent in #lounge as long as it is civil.
Only place to do it.
As for PMs, though... You can ignore them. Or just tell them not to PM you.
Or just block.
That's why we have block.
shut thunder
Fair enough
rich sky
I am blocked by at least 25% of this server.
shut thunder
:\
rich sky
/shrug
shut thunder
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
rich sky
People get triggered too easily
shut thunder
yep agreed
shut thunder
This is a gamedev server though not a political server
rich sky
Aye. But there's a reason why almost every server has an off topic
People just want a central place to shoot the shit about random stuff
shut thunder
k
rich sky
With people they interact with on a daily basis
sleek warren
issue with the politics is...
there's life outside US
it's really tiring to see one year of presidential election talk when it doesn't even affect your own life
also stupid as I doubt majority of people in this group come from US
just to put things in context: http://ontheworldmap.com/usa/usa-location-map.jpg
that's US vs world for you, it's not the whole planet
sleek warren
about politics and why it doesn't work in game dev discussion groups
rich sky
I still don't see an issue with it
no one forces anyone to read offtopic chats
and if you still want to jump in there, but don't want to see anyone talking about a specific subject, you block them
I mean, it's really as easy as that
placing any restrictions on off-topic would be very silly. It will open up chance for spillage among other things.
slender blade
^
sleek warren
there are already banned topics
slender blade
Off-topic is off-topic. I heavily disagree with "take it somewhere else", too. This is a community with its regulars. You can't go make a separate server for each group of regulars with a subject they like discussing.
sleek warren
and why would the rest of the world have to care for US politics anyway? :p
I vote for #offtopic-politics :p
so I can hide that
slender blade
Well, see, as a Dutch person, I don't only care for US politics. I also care for Canadian, Australian, Russian...
You get the point
I care about politics
That includes USA politics x3
I definitely think a #politics channel would be a good addition
But I think that's something to do once categories are in
So we can have it as subchannel for Off-topic
sleek warren
tbh, I really think offtopic channels in gamedev group should be minimal
slender blade
Like I said, you can't form separate servers for each group of people that likes a topic
sleek warren
I think 2/3 of their channels are for offtopic
slender blade
I think there should be a place for people in the community to have a talk together, the same way there's common rooms in offices for people to talk
๐
sleek warren
yeah, that's the unity groups mods defence too
slender blade
It's not like employers go "Oh yeah get out of the office" when you want to talk about something else for a bit ๐
sleek warren
that's why they have anime, meme, music etc channels
and offtopic1, offtopic2 ๐
it's a disaster IMO
slender blade
Which I think is overkill, especially since we don't have categories
But once categories are in
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
sleek warren
if you want to do that much offtopic, you are not in right group, these groups should be dev focused
slender blade
They are dev-focused
sleek warren
there are already plenty of other places on the web where you can go procrastinating
slender blade
People just like to talk about other things, too
And people like to do that in the groups they're already in
sleek warren
yeah, once categories are in
slender blade
With the people they already talk to
sleek warren
I don't mind if they flood offtopic with subchannels
but right now they really take the space
slender blade
Yeah, I see that
sleek warren
especially on mobile client which can't hide any channels
slender blade
So anyway, my stance is: Off-topic should be allowed, if not passively encouraged, but the amount of channels for it should be limited until there's categories
In this case, I'm perfectly content with the one channel we have for off-topic
Though it'd be nice to split it a bit once there is categories
rich sky
Btw what USA politics were discussed recently? All I have been seeing is Spain related stuff...
midnight swan
Proposal: people who haven't posted anything within a month are removed from the server
this server is pretty quiet for a nearly 5k person server
lime bay
@midnight swan A lot of people come here simply to read and view work for inspiration. They dont need to interact as they may not have anything of substance to add to the topic at hand. For example, I generally only add to conversations in the #level-design room and never anywhere else really, but I check this channel and all rooms daily. Especially the #work-in-progress & #design-chat rooms.
deft raft
Also i don't like kicking people that come back after a month. We can remove users that haven't been online for 6 months or so though
- not seeing the problem with usercount and how loud it's here. Kicking them doesn't make it louder
chilly ivy
I know. ๐
rich sky
Damn, thought I was in here
Still no new channels or at least categories @chilly ivy ?
I mean, you were on last night for the launch, and every other server's already gotten their side sorted. Let's not wait too much longer.
It's not like you didn't have months to prepare for this
deft raft
@rich sky I didn't get any list or so on how it should look, but do you users have a specific wish on how we should sort it?
Might just combine that in the end
rich sky
@deft raft Well, the first thing
Let's split it up into at least three sections
Server, Unreal Engine, Other
whatever you want to call it
rich sky
I mean, I will. that's not an issue. But I would be adding all the channels that everyone's been crying about for months too ๐
deft raft
Like, take the current channels and show me how you think it should look like.
I'm open for it. It's not directly a mod dicision as you peeps need to like it
rich sky
Aye, I'll do it right now
deft raft
Thank you (:
Will process it once I have time off work
sleek warren
whoever put the voice channels in a group, THANK YOU!
been waiting this since day one on this group
(that I can minimize/hide them)
probably @deft raft
rich sky
And here's a first draft: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1igRL77v_S0ePkwOhQwjRvGLdltOqNSA7SNuvM2mK9fo/edit?usp=sharing
I can't remember everything people have asked for, tried to search back (but too much clutter), and I didn't think I was going to do the <@&213101288538374145> job for them ๐
But, anyone can comment and should. Especially the names.
deft raft
Thanks. Also you are not doing our job. You are adding your ideas to the list.
I would post a list myself, but I didn't get any from Nick yet.
Be happy that I rather ask the community than deciding myself
Also added my comments for now
@sleek warren Yes, that was me
rich sky
@deft raft ๐
celest zenith
@deft raft well the original categories http://i.imgur.com/nrXCjo4.png
that is from nick so
deft raft
Yeah but that's not using the category system
rich sky
Yeah
look at my proposed plan @celest zenith
it makes everything easier
and you can just hide certain categories
Like...if you're primarily a programmer...
why have any art channels open
slender blade
^
celest zenith
@rich sky you have a idea there but so many faq
rich sky
of course
each main section needs one
should get one
If anything, to introduce what these channels are for and how to use them
And then, common silly newb questions
rich sky
#1 no one ever reads taht shit
oh, you mean rename it
hmm nah
everyone knows what a faq is
they can skim it real quick to see if their question has been asked
example: in Unreal Visual Scripting
faq
Question 1: How do I communicate with other blueprints
deft raft
info is also != faq
deft raft
I can already tell you, that people will still ask
deft raft
We need to have prefixes for the FAQ channels
rich sky
instead of google this
deft raft
I don't think you can have more than one
rich sky
since we don't want to do that right?
At least, it's all in one "concise" area
You can
I mean, I already had the tutorial idea back in July: https://gyazo.com/7c816b51c9960e0a954adb2e367696d7
the faq idea I totally stole from them though, and it makes sense
also, faq = only select few , mod+whoever else you want to allow
Since we have an issue with <@&213101288538374145> / @chilly ivy keeping stuff up to date sometimes. I suggest the following: Each section gets people as "experts" or "gurus"
And so there's no need to wait for mods/pfist to update faqs
ocean siren
woah that's like a fundamental change
rich sky
@ocean siren hmm ?
deft raft
I'll process the categories later
ocean siren
that'll have to have @chilly ivy involved
rich sky
what are you talking about?
deft raft
We can always have them changed
ocean siren
gurus
rich sky
Add tags?
rich sky
Yeah
deft raft
What's the best way ?
deft raft
Technically, if you limit a group to the category, it should only be listed on the right if you have the channel selected or?
rich sky
Actually, that's the best way anyway
And then they can be tagged
directly
Yeah, so, if you're in a channel
deft raft
Yeah, and make sure the role is only in that specific channel
deft raft
I wonder, if I have a role only for multiplayer category
so MP_GURUS
Can you tag that in ART
rich sky
I suggest you do
Well, technically, the role is server wide
let me see if there's a way to do it
sadly, no new roles options
So, yes, anyone will be able to
rich sky
because it's not enabled
deft raft
But if I would enable tagging, even though the group only exists in the channel
rich sky
I just showed you ๐
deft raft
Would you be able to call it here?
deft raft
Don't worry, :P
wintry laurel
y u tag me
rich sky
I can't find mod or stream team anywhere but here so far
@wintry laurel Because I love you and want to bother you forever
No, sorry about that.
I was just showing @deft raft something
wintry laurel
Cedric already does that :p
deft raft
@ everyone
wintry laurel
don't dare
wintry laurel
That is odd
rich sky
well, what I mean is, it's listed by default in most channels by just @
deft raft
Yeah, question is, why only in some and can we actually set that up
So Gurus are only callable in their channels
rich sky
No, you can still call them anywhere by FULLY typing it out
deft raft
gg
rich sky
I don't know why it's just showing up by default in some channels, and others not though
like in #share-your-stream
type in @ and you can't see it at the bottom
but type in <@&276089159905705985> and you will
ocean siren
Oh and about the faq channel thing
ocean siren
you can have multiple channels that are the same name
ocean siren
even in the same category
rich sky
good addition
rich sky
@deft raft if you want to make it even easier... you would have to just have separate guru tags
Like, BP-Guru, Art-Guru
etc
deft raft
Tags?
rich sky
Programming-Guru