Ok course i was meaning for working with unreal engine and 3D software
#lounge
lapis pike
dense storm
anything with decent core count, 3800X, 5800X, 3900X 5900X, etc. Theadrpper if you have the budget
median wraith
my CPU is having problems since a week and I'm having absurd compilation times, featuring 5h today to package a project with just some materials
that or the engine is foked
humble remnant
I noticed that engine gets built when you package for a new stage (Development/DebugGame/Shipping)
Also was it you who had UE4/project on an HDD
median wraith
is on SSD
is the main one
VS + Engine + Project all in the same SSD
taking thr whole day just to package
humble remnant
Damn
tulip cedar
Can anyone recommend a high end windows laptop($3-4k) they use for UE4 development? I've been spending way to much on macbook pros over the years and they're becoming more and more of a nightmare to develop on due to plug in capability issues (and many others), and I hear bootcamping is just foolish due to driver probs.
soft night
ok luchalibre some dont know when you dont take of the mask https://www.cbr.com/blue-demon-luchador-wouldnt-unmask-for-dsney-execs/
carmine frigate
@tulip cedar get a 2k pc and a 1k notepad 😛
tulip cedar
I'm on the road 99% of the time
fresh heath
Twitter
unborn lotus
@tulip cedar take a look at the new asus line with 5900 ryzens, 3060s or 3070
I like the flow x13, only 13 inch
tulip cedar
@unborn lotus thanks a bunch will do
fallow finch
when you dont smoke
tulip orbit
Looks good to me. ship it.
dense storm
better than what i could do 😄
zinc matrix
anyone else looking forward to this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYjcDFrnN5E
been a while since we had a good kaiju fighting game
humble remnant
fathom wadi
how did you sum that up?
robust gulch
zinc matrix
Im surprised people liked the sounds, I didnt give them much thought.. was so focused on the visuals and getting the lightning to work
@dull blade I know what you mean. What people like doesn't always correlate to what received the most development. That said, I was surprised how much audio added to my project — it really is critical to immersion.
I'm planning to use at least basic sounds for most features moving forward.
dull blade
oh ya adding sounds def motivated me to upload the test video, adds an entire mountain worth of immersion 👀
zinc matrix
Most of my experience is with web software, where audio is mostly an anti-pattern.
So I guess I wasn't used to thinking about it, but wow it's awesome!
dull blade
im a sucker for visuals though, but I do require some good audios since my ears are a bit sensitive.. certain things can actually cause pain 😆
zinc matrix
I've been experimenting with video production, and it's the same deal — audio is so important.
And bad audio instantly ruins even the best visuals.
zinc matrix
im a sucker for visuals though, but I do require some good audios since my ears ...
Haha, and then you picked screeching horror noises.
dull blade
those will come soon O. O
blazing pendant
glad osprey
The idea might be common......
But u rlly cant stop someone from cloning ur game
U have to try to make it the best original u can
Try to make it unqiue if u can
Pubg wanted to sue the other games but they couldnt battle royale was an idea way before pubg so ideas rlly cant be copyrighted
Rlly not a seasoned dev,some ppl will know the answer to that question doe
The only real copyright issues that I see would be using none open src assets or src code that arnt under a gpl lisence
Do not ever
Ever
Use the same name
Ull have devs of an abadoned buggy game emailing u for a copyright issue
Lool dont
Just dont
Tons of prying eyes here👀
I think do a simple mind map of what u want it to be first
Then ask around abt how to design the game around that concept in regards to coding and lvl design
Yeh gud idea
But if ur game isnt going to be rlly graphically intensive use a simpler engine like godot(if u like)
Well its capable of 3d but i didnt know u were speaking of it in a 3d context xd
It would feel weird for soe but if u can pull it off hey,hats off🎩
I dont rlly use unreal ive only joined recentley
Yeh godot was a blast but unreal is the $h!t
Yeh heard of him
U in game design?
Ah gud
Im not in gd just normal ol boring CS :/
That is how it seemed to me at first too
But yeh Cs😬
I mean its gud an all but it aint game design🤷♂️
Visual scripting can be a limiting factotr in terms of mechanics and performance
It would actually help newbie coders
Studying the src code if blue prints might be like an already existing template for a mechanic which u can add upon using standard C++
Ofc excpet c++ is a pain......
Well.its limiting compared to standard C++
As using C++ is alot more linear in terms of not bloating ur game and better customization of said src code
But if ur game's simple just use blueprint and save urself some time
Some indie games were made using unity bolt and became best sellers.at some point
Yeh viusal scripting may be simple
But dont under estimate it's usability
unborn lotus
scrabble battle royale? 😆
glad osprey
"Speed runner reacted Meep Meep"
Im pretty sure there is room for such a game on steam
There is some weird ass stuff dere
Im talkin abt the random free games ....
Yeh u can opt out of a publisher but itd be bad for business
unborn lotus
you'll probably sell a lot more on steam
glad osprey
Alot of ppl consider epic chinese spyware
unborn lotus
you get even more money
glad osprey
But normal users could care less
Yeh but they both get a big chunk of the profits
But if the game sells well
Ur in for a ride
Its still bring business to the table either way
The epic launcher is ezy to use and has freebies
Btw rage 2 is free
tidal ivy
Its still bring business to the table either way
Epic's own published statistics seem to indicate that they're hardly selling anything on EGS
growth from year-end 2019 to 2020 was also negligible despite tripling the number of given-away games :/
cursive crypt
There are so many marketplaces nowadays. Maybe they need just more time and marketing :)
carmine frigate
I doubt the store is running up a loss tho
its 100% a good idea to start a store when so many ppl allready use ur launcher
median wraith
were about port an old game to android but Godot still crude and Unity welp is Unity
and for 2D UE4 seems like a nightmare
tidal ivy
I doubt the store is running up a loss tho
if you ignore Fortnite, it looks like it's likely making a loss
carmine frigate
well fortnite doesnt sell in the store
i doubt the running cost and free games are super high tho
and exclusives is more of a guarantee number of sales so doesnt really cost
carmine frigate
i didnt look at the statistics tho
but the overhead of puttin a store on their launcher seems super low compared to possible gains
they were bound to put more people on that someday
you have to realise these days users are not the customer
they are the product
tidal ivy
EGS made $265M in 2020, but also gave away 750M games
the average spend per user, excluding fortnite, is about $2
ancient hornet
well that's not unexpected
tidal ivy
so the real question is whether the store's annual costs per user amount to less than $2 (probably, if those users are not very active) on average combined with the cost of the giveaways
ancient hornet
with how aggressive they were to bring in users with free games 😄
tidal ivy
hehe
ancient hornet
the average had to go down 😛
tidal ivy
the worst part is the growth; in 2019 they gave away about 250M games and made about $250M, then in 2020 they gave away about 750M games and made about $265M
growth was about 2% in terms of revenue... but the cost of user acquisition basically tripled to get them there
foggy path
the active user count is probably the key there tbh rather than the actual cost of acquisition at this point
tidal ivy
(in real terms it probably did not actually triple, since of course they're not paying out per copy)
carmine frigate
nah those free games they prolly get a good deal on a game that lost traction
a friend of mine bought civ6 on steam after it was free on EGS and i was playin it with some1
carmine frigate
so they kinda fucted up that deal 😛
nah its an allright game
anyways that giveaway can also boost ur sales when its over
foggy path
yeah Civ 6 is fine... they tried to mix up the formula a bit which I get that not all Civ diehards will like
foggy path
I mean the whole city building thing is totally different than before...
foggy path
I thought it was neat
tidal ivy
it doesn't actually work
carmine frigate
than 750M giveaways and 265M income aint that shabby, lot of tech stuff is 100% red for years just try to build userbase
tidal ivy
they had to cut half the features out after release because it was impossible to understand, lol
foggy path
heh, I wouldn't know since I haven't really played it that much but the few playthrough I did were fun enough
tidal ivy
aha, tracked down the two blog posts, if you wanted to compare:
https://www.epicgames.com/store/en-US/news/epic-games-store-weekly-free-games-in-2020
https://www.epicgames.com/store/en-US/news/epic-games-store-2020-year-in-review
foggy path
I say they bring back the FMV advisors from Civ 2, now that would make Civ 7 amazing
tidal ivy
annoyingly both are labelled "2020", made last years stats really hard to find, lol
almost 0 growth
especially given all those $10 vouchers they've been giving out etc :/
carmine frigate
yea that might actually press it down tho
foggy path
it's pretty hard to compete when steam has the market effectively cornered
carmine frigate
clearly 100% focus on user growth atm
foggy path
lack of steam crossplay in multiplayer titles is also a big no go
(some do have it but not all)
carmine frigate
concurrent users would say a lot more
tidal ivy
they don't release that stat, annoyingly
but I gather concurrent users has been declining (largely because Fortnite has been declining)
foggy path
Number of users that spend any money would be interesting
because if that's growing then that's good
tidal ivy
that's included in there
foggy path
oh was it
tidal ivy
108M in 2019, 160M in 2020
foggy path
Well that's not bad then
carmine frigate
nah thats just as important as users on discord spending money
foggy path
how so?
tidal ivy
it's an increase of about 50% which is alright, but each user spent less on average, so it's also bad 😄
carmine frigate
but that might be the Xmas games and stuff
tidal ivy
I suspect it's because of the voucher
foggy path
perhaps, but the barrier to getting people to spend money is the biggest one... those who buy once are likely to buy again
tidal ivy
also true
carmine frigate
totally true
tidal ivy
though that there's no money being made implies they aren't coming back
tidal ivy
I've never spend a penny, lol
foggy path
and that was because it was in early access there first and that's it
tidal ivy
Satisfactory is the only game I've played through EGS, but I'll probably buy it on Steam in the end
pretty sure I'm a hefty net loss on EGS as a user, lol
foggy path
How'd you play it on EGS if you didn't spend money? :P
tidal ivy
I got it for free
foggy path
Oh of course lol
Well it has Steam crossplay so there's technically no need to buy it on Steam again :D
carmine frigate
ow yea, the link of accounts , ubisoft and stuff is completely broken for me
i cant play those games for some reason
tidal ivy
I can buy it on Steam so that I don't have to use the Launcher
and so that I can still play it when Epic effing login service goes down, lol
foggy path
I think you can add it to steam as a 3rd party thingy and it'll happily launch without EGS iirc :P
tidal ivy
not sure about that, but worth a try I guess
ancient hornet
with crossplay? doesn't the game need the launcher for auth info?
foggy path
No idea tbh
I just seem to recall it does start without the launcher being active but maybe I'm misremembering
tidal ivy
need an Epic account, but don't need the launcher if you have it on Steam
foggy path
well I just tried launching it from GOG Galaxy and it launches fine without EGL booting up, including logging into my Epic account
Disclaimer: Not sure if GOG Galaxy's EGS integration does some magic for it
ancient hornet
if it does, that solves partially the "not using the Launcher" without having to buy it again on Steam 😄
foggy path
it launches my games fine so I don't really have issues with it ¯_(ツ)_/¯
tidal ivy
it takes about 4-5 minutes to load my library and the interface is terrible
foggy path
wow
carmine frigate
its crap for what it does
tidal ivy
aye
foggy path
yeah it does make me wonder if this is really the best they could've done with it
and how much internal politics was involved in the ridiculous idea to use UE4 to run it...
tidal ivy
mercifully it's on an SSD now, but it also used to lock up my machine totally when installing things
throttled the hard drive
carmine frigate
i think they position might be better than valve when software becomes equal
foggy path
at least it's not as bad as steam was back in the day
the entire steam friends system was down for probably a year when they reworked it because it was so fucking bad lol
tidal ivy
yeah, but it's also a false equivalence, because it isn't releasing in 2004, it's releasing in 2018
foggy path
yeah that's true lol
tidal ivy
I want it to get better for sure, but it has to complete with current competitors, not with whatever they were a decade ago 😄
carmine frigate
its a rushed push , due to opertunity
tidal ivy
it's not helped by Epic generally being very slow to develop
foggy path
it's bizarre seeing forum threads about lacking documentation from 5 years ago and they still don't exist
tidal ivy
meh, it's right up there with seeing Niagara demos in the Unreal Engine 3 days and now we're around the corner from Unreal Engine 5 😂
foggy path
:P
carmine frigate
ow yea, and 10 years back they said they can hook up cameras to blind peoples brains in 5 years
deep glen
hehe, i remember talking about niagara back when ue4 had its first gdc
median wraith
I mean Niagara has been released 1 year ago wasn't it ?
tidal ivy
Niagara is 'released' now, but has only very recently become stable enough to ship with
I don't know any games that are using it except Fortnite
carmine frigate
paragon
tidal ivy
I don't think Paragon was using Niagara?
deep glen
there are a few, but most of em are still in the works/ue5 stuff
and paragon used niagara near the end
tidal ivy
yeah, there'll definitely be stuff in the works by now
heck, some absolute madmen might even be trying to use Chaos
carmine frigate
stuff gettin build with niagara in center
median wraith
and paragon used niagara near the end
yeah its correct, they followed the wormhole tutorial and something happened with the project
🤖
tidal ivy
that said, I really want to do a project that just goes apeshit with Niagara and Fluid Ninja at some point
just because shiny
deep glen
same XD
median wraith
Fluid Ninja is using render targets ?
tidal ivy
uses render targets but can bake into sheets etc
haven't spent a lot of time with it, so don't know all the specifics
they had a really nice raymarching demo at some point too
carmine frigate
median wraith
XD
carmine frigate
how does it look?
median wraith
good I bet, it helsp with rendering
carmine frigate
Houseki no Kuni has the best grass 😛
that i ever seen in digital stuff
also one of those pixar (i think) movies
grass often takes a lot of screenspace so worth puttin some effort in
we will see what workaround ppl wil come up with for the unlimited polygon stuff w/o vertex offset
i think polygon flipbooks or something wil be a thing
deep glen
perhaps a rewrite on how vertex offset is done on gpu is enough? (sure, make it sound easy you derpy non-coder nub)
carmine frigate
i cant wait to drop a billion poly in a scene 😛
if you can flip visibility on off u can allready do a lot of stuff
stable gull
when is ue5 releasing again? they said early 2021 right? any news?
carmine frigate
expect it to be barely usable when it arrives
deep glen
generally if there is any news you'd see people discuss it everywhere
stable gull
okay, i am hopeful that it will also be in #unreal-news here
cursive crypt
nah, mods will be silent
tidal ivy
i think polygon flipbooks or something wil be a thing
that's already a thing
that's more or less how the water effects were done in Man of Medan
carmine frigate
isnt that called morphs?
tidal ivy
no
deep glen
nah, just mesh flipbook
tidal ivy
we drove mesh geometry using a flipbook texture
deep glen
quite common-ish in vfx
tidal ivy
pretty cheap to do, so long as you have good tools to bake it
cursive crypt
vertex anim? 🤔
tidal ivy
kinda, yeah
deep glen
nah separate meshes combined into one
cursive crypt
So, anim texture per submesh?
tidal ivy
it's just a material doing offsets driven by a flipbook
cursive crypt
ah ok
stable gull
i remember seeing a mesh sequence cache modifier somewhere and it replaced the mesh each frame with a different looking mesh from files, also supported alembic stuff, i think in blender, i don't remember details
carmine frigate
hmm that1 is kinda sick
stable gull
yeah pretty good
fathom wadi
thats awesome.
pearl elk
that is definitely a lie
humble remnant
heck, some absolute madmen might even be trying to use Chaos
I feel called out
You mean that rubber ducky has failed you?
Ohno
Oof
glass comet
fallow finch
dense storm
fathom wadi
love that one. It's just right 🙂
bronze axle
End of an era.
https://youtu.be/DuDX6wNfjqc
deep glen
NOOOOO
fallow finch
this one is so true to me sometimes:
Its me with other people im pro with my project im bob
obsidian notch
Can someone ELI5 me on how Multiplayer games are economically viable? Since each user has to use network resources / bandwith, this gives each user a cost per hour of play. Most multiplayer games are either Premium( single payment, full access) or Freemium ( free to play, plus microtransactions). I understand how Microtransactions aid in this cost, as users who player more are more likely to spend money in MT, fulfilling that Cost per Hour of Play. However, in a Premium model, a user who plays 90 hours of the game( using a lot of network resources), would not generate any more income past the initial purchase. Wouldn't this mean that there is a point at which a user of a multiplayer game becomes un-profitable or a loss, since the server costs for that user exceed their initial game purchase. Or am I overthinking this?
fringe sundial
@obsidian notch you make your game use P2P networking (like COD does) and then your server costs are very minimal
and if you do the networking well, you can absolutely pay the cost of the servers no isue
with a 15 euros per month relatively cheap server you can likely host enough for 20-30 players
so we can say cost-per-player is less than 1 euro per month, assuming the player is playing 24 hours a day
on premium games its really not an issue. You can always nuke the servers anyway
its more of an issue on F2P games, as average $ per player can be low in there, and then it might not cover server costs
fresh heath
That's how most first-person shooters used to work
The developers only hosted the master server that kept track of users' dedicated servers
obsidian notch
The developers only hosted the master server that kept track of users' dedicated...
That master server wouldn't even need to be memory-optimised or high-compute( which a normal game server tends to be), that use case you're describing there sounds like just a simple Web API
fluid bloom
back in the good old days all games gave away the dedicated server binaries
obsidian notch
Not doing any Networking projects anytime soon, but thanks for the input everyone. The economics just confused me!
fluid bloom
I don't understand why games don't ship with dedicated server binaries these days
can anyone think of a reason?
normal prism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYQwuYZbA6o
This is wild
glossy stone
This is *wild*
incredibly sad that the microphone didn't work during landing
normal prism
Next time 😄
glossy stone
fluid bloom
did they test the heli/quad/whatevercopter yet?
glossy stone
did they test the heli/quad/whatevercopter yet?
they tested to see if it can power on, it's still attached to the rover and it'll be another three weeks or so before they detach it and it does its first flight
cursive crypt
It's official. I switched to team Red. Goodbye Intel & NVidia 👋
fresh heath
Blue and green
cursive crypt
Teal 🤔
cursive crypt
What is Teal then? wtf, my world
median wraith
It's official. I switched to team Red. Goodbye Intel & NVidia 👋
How dare you
Aqua
fight me
what the hell is that witchcraft
fresh heath
If only real-life bananas could randomly duplicate themselves
clear shore
This a crappy floor plan of the map for a possible tech demo of my game, trust me, it's really crappy and childish-looking.
actually should I put it here?
oh yeah, i did. should it be rated?
on a scale of 1 to 10, how does it look?
humble remnant
I don't understand why games don't ship with dedicated server binaries these day...
I think it's a mix of cheating prevention and sequel-baiting
At this point I can't be sure since every single AAA game is going the way of a live service
regal pecan
DLC rights management
whole umbra
Whats a good laptop for unreal engine 4
solar nebula
@whole umbra the best laptop for unreal engine 4 is a desktop computer with at least 8 GB of RAM
median wraith
I feel like an incompetent using niagara for first time
humble remnant
Niagara is deffo more complex than Cascade
But once you get used to it you can make hella better effects
fresh heath
foggy path
Garage 54?
clear shore
where can i request someone to make a custom map for me in UE4?
broken sigil
take a look at the job boards, first take a look at #instructions to see how to use them
clear shore
got it.
broken sigil
yeah haha
dense storm
It seems they’ve been trying for ever
To find x, y, and z
And it’s quite clear to me:
If they’ve not found them yet then they’ll never.```Small announcement that Fanatical have a bundle on music https://www.fanatical.com/en/bundle/mega-music-collection-royalty-free-bundle
rare sparrow
I just got a DualSense controller as a replacement for my DS4 I've been using with my PC. Dang this thing is nice. I tried out the adaptive triggers thanks to a little program someone put on github. It makes me wish PC games would support the adaptive triggers
broken quiver
everyone knows about trello/kanbans but im always annoyed with these. Does anyone know of a similar planning/tasking thing that uses a tree structure instead?
broken quiver
hmm, ill check it out
median wraith
Someone told me about move my audio system to the last versions cuz they added the new audio etc systems
but it seems like UE4 new audio bakes stats per project track into metadata
so isn't useful to me 🤔
median wraith
It seems like niagara fails at execute on packaged builds with the audio modules
hey its a free Poll
pearl elk
Im trying a poll free diet
tribal kraken
yeah, unfortunately we just found out about the limit, sorry everyone, we'll be hosting the poll on our website today hopefully
median wraith
niagara Oscilloscope is broken so reported it
in other hand managed somehow to import audio in this version, except for ogg thats taking me a bit more
pearl elk
ogg = original gangster goat?
median wraith
xd
pearl elk
really whips the llamas ass
pearl elk
I moved to Media Monkey for awhile cuz it detected my library quicker than Winamp
Now I just stream mostly
carmine frigate
VLC
median wraith
I think will pass from the 4.26 right now, the oscilator is broken and other things missing
median wraith
in other hand I managed to import all directly to that system
pearl elk
searching online became quicker than searching my local audio library
carmine frigate
yea that must be it
median wraith
lol
pearl elk
no way Im storing media on valuable SSD space 😛
median wraith
I'm the only dude with local music yep
noticed it on the app release
except on phones where the people tend to have it downloaded
pearl elk
I bet you have an old Bic pen you use especially for rewinding your mixtapes 😛
carmine frigate
u have a person playing guitar outside ur window?
lol yea that saves battery power, and all the good songs are on side B
if only they added more sides to casset tapes storage problems would be over
carmine frigate
you can make somethin g that plays casettes or records with super low electronic skills while mp3 u can never play from scratch
just like FM radio
unborn lotus
I bet you have an old Bic pen you use especially for rewinding your mixtapes 😛
hehe we were recording them from the radio
carmine frigate
oldschool tech rocks
pearl elk
I had a slip of the mind earlier, I asked someone to remind me tomorrow to set my alarm
Then I realised, oh yeah I can set an alarm for it in advance duh 🙂
Its okay I got the VHS set to record X-Files tonight
ancient ingot
mm Gillian
carmine frigate
lol the timer on ur VHS is most def wrong
pearl elk
yeah I got to set it to record 15mins before and 30 mins after just incase
because the TV schedule isnt always right either
carmine frigate
back in those days all digital clocks were off , and nobody knew how to set em
it was anarchy
carmine frigate
snake
fresh heath
deep glen
XD
pearl elk
Jeez Drs just arnt getting paid what they used to
foggy path
lol
why do I get the feeling it was just someone wondering "I wonder if that would work"
because if I had endoscopy equipment and a vending machine it definitely would be
carmine frigate
yea i would install tetris on that display and it would spit out everything on 10k score
some of em are fairly easy to hack or have a service code
download the instruction manual and look at what the default code is
those machines stole more from me than other way around 😛
pearl elk
You havent lived if you havent got your arm stuck up inside a vending machine
carmine frigate
yea fight the machine
median wraith
nice OBS decided don't record the audio when I wanted on a stream it won't be repeated
gg
median wraith
In love with google
search me total unrelated music
gg
I'm trying to figure one word from the whole sentence
but google keep giving me unrelated music
😂
carmine frigate
try nananaaaa nananaananaaaa
median wraith
jesus
if I pass you the video I recorded
maybe you can tell me what song is
tell me what song is that
I were trying the stream music from radios
the audio is too low
oh there you go
an audio music detector worked lol
the video is a record from the engine yeah
But I just wanted to know the track name
ohhh the lyrics are
"Goin' 'round and 'round"
cuz if you search for going around and around won't spot
nice google eat....
fallow finch
Why the Fish doesnt looks like A spoon ?
median wraith
used midomi
tidal haven
WOOOOOOOW sooooo much snooow
median wraith
deep glen
lol
median wraith
can someone tell me the F3 and F4 whats the normal view and what the other ?
normal prism
abnormal view
median wraith
oh F3 seems Lit and F4 light
cursive crypt
OneDrive is like a damn virus, can't get it out.
deep glen
fresh heath
https://blog.playstation.com/2021/02/23/introducing-the-next-generation-of-vr-on...
Nice, I hope it will be officially PC compatible
Their gamepads even have official Linux drivers
So why not
carmine frigate
i doubt it
zinc matrix
superior full dynamic lighting! ue5!
zinc matrix
❤️
anybody has a list of things ue5 will be do better with LUMEN than before in ue4 ?
quiet narwhal
everything lumen does?
tidal ivy
Lumen is better for largely static scenes with slow moving objects; like the ones demonstrated in the demo video
but it's a temporal effect which means it's useless for stuff with fast or high frequency movement
fast cameras in particular would be a huge problem
I can imagine foliage rendering will also have issues
zinc matrix
Lumen is better for largely static scenes with slow moving objects; like the one...
u talking about racing stuff? (fast movement)
tidal ivy
that would be one such example
zinc matrix
but not fps walking/running stuff right?
in racing games you can hide it with blur tho
tidal ivy
that would probably depend on the game
foggy path
variety of things can have fast movement, even rotating
blur is not really a very good fix
tidal ivy
you can't hide incorrect lighting with blur, really
zinc matrix
but the woman in the demo is flying with high speed
zinc matrix
wait what
tidal ivy
obviously it's a youtube still, but:
A) most of the scene is in shadow because you're moving towards the light source
B) the extent of the blur is so high you literally can't see any detail anywhere in the image
this still has a lit section, but it's still pretty awful:
the facade of the building on the left is catastrophically badly rendered
everything on the right is just one glob of colour
and for a fair comparison, from the same video, when the camera isn't in motion:
ancient hornet
Lumen will be amazing for UE4 Editor 😛
even if you don't really use it's effects ingame
zinc matrix
ok so seems like only fast paced first person shooters like csgo are unlucky
tidal ivy
alternatively: less close up
you'll notice there's almost no foliage, and the fluids in the video that are present are really, really bad
section with fluids:
https://youtu.be/qC5KtatMcUw?t=242
fathom wadi
That it. My next game is getting made in Dreams.
zinc matrix
foliage in ue4 generally lacks performance*52
fathom wadi
foliage should be fine unless you dont optimise for it
quiet narwhal
keep in mind we are only seeing this as is in a pre produced product that is going to be over a year old by the time this comes out
zinc matrix
GI is hard to show without a comparison, a rocky scene with no foliage makes GI pop better.
fathom wadi
also keep in mind, the world ain't game devs and this will fool the majority into it being more than it is
zinc matrix
foliage should be fine unless you dont optimise for it
i tried everything with foliage. performance just horrible
I tested DFGI a lot back in the day (used for medium level detail for lumen) and it was better than high res LPV
fathom wadi
I assure you that you didn't do everything then. Unless you simply overloaded the scene
ancient hornet
I don't really see problems in UE4 performance with folliage
fathom wadi
trying to get a style etc
ancient hornet
that isn't issues due to the fact folliage is hard on the GPU
zinc matrix
I tested DFGI a lot back in the day (used for medium level detail for lumen) and...
dfgi? where did you test it
I'm sure really high velocity stuff will be awkward due to the nature of how DF stuff is handled, but it wasn't bad back then, and it won't be bad now
zinc matrix
I assure you that you didn't do everything then. Unless you simply overloaded t...
i used only optimized foliage from the foliage network thingy developer. its free.
dfgi used to be a thing waaay back
can't remember the version numbers
fathom wadi
Thats not my point. I said the foliage isn't the problem
zinc matrix
it performed badly for ps4 era though so it was shelved
only the heightfield gi survived
fathom wadi
Its fine for case but if your case if not optimised properly, its gonna feel like its the foliage
zinc matrix
it performed badly for ps4 era though so it was shelved
so you agree that games /game engines are being made only for consoles?
tidal ivy
SVOGI was shelved because it didn't run on the XBOne - but it was cut already before we hit 4.0
zinc matrix
Its fine for case but if your case if not optimised properly, its gonna feel lik...
i optimized the lod and used already optimized foliage
zinc matrix
so you agree that games /game engines are being made only for consoles?
ue4 is a commercial product that is marketed as a generic engine. of course epic has to weigh in consoles. svogi was removed for that reason too, it was too impractical to keep when it had so many tendrils across the render code
its not sensible to have that
fathom wadi
have you ran profiling and insights to see where the issue lies? (presumably you have so sorry if thats the case)
zinc matrix
have you ran profiling and insights to see where the issue lies? (presumably you...
yes. it was the grass.
fathom wadi
shader complexity?
zinc matrix
nvidia later reintroduced svogi but no one used it
complexity is fine. as i said its optimized foliage
so epic was spot of for removing svogi
torpid star
does anyone have a screenshot of UE3.5?
zinc matrix
everythign was GREEN
fathom wadi
@torpid star I have the september UDK from 2010 if that counts 😄
torpid star
let's see!
zinc matrix
are you using the z buffer thingy for the foliage?
torpid star
I'd love to see how the engine looked transition from 3 to 4
zinc matrix
that can improve performance drastically iirc
fathom wadi
zinc matrix
zinc matrix
are you using the z buffer thingy for the foliage?
dont know
fathom wadi
zinc matrix
it is early z pass under rendering. If you have a lot of (A LOT OF) masked foliage it works wonders
torpid star
so why did they get rid of DFGI?
zinc matrix
shader complexity was full green with that
fathom wadi
yeah it might be fine and the whole setup was just conflicting in timing or something. Could be anything if im diagnosing on discord chat tho. Would need to spend time assessing the rest of the setup. Hope it pans out for you
zinc matrix
too slow for the hardware of that period, not worth to maintain. AND, at that time Fortnite was being "phased out" in favor of Paragon. Fortnite (STW) being a procedurally generated game, and Paragon being a completely static game, all of the 3d rendering wizards stopped working on dynamic gi stuff
3d lightmaps and so on was made for paragon for example
torpid star
they were shelving Fortnite for Paragon? that's crazy
zinc matrix
Fortnite Save The World
fathom wadi
this entire company got shelved
torpid star
so do you think the realtime GI they have now is based on the DFGI stuff?
@fathom wadi rough
fathom wadi
not rough. Deserved. If they fuck this game up, I'd have ended them too 😄
fresh heath
this entire company got shelved
I wonder if this is going to end up killing White Wolf and World of Darkness
zinc matrix
afaik lumen has voxel gi for large details, ssgi for small details, and distance field stuff for medium level detail
fathom wadi
hopefully not for the employees
torpid star
oh so it's a mix of all 3? I wonder why LPV went nowhere
zinc matrix
old DFGI became a cog in the new lumen after some dusting I'd imagine
fathom wadi
LPV seems too late to me. It had it's time but all the global illumination options coming out, some had to fall
zinc matrix
lionhead was closed down. LPV was their effort, and they were supposed to maintain it. But microsoft cancelled fable so it went nowhere
Epic didn't remove it because at some point they were hoping to return and make it a little bit more usable. But paragon happened and it got delayed and forgotten
There were multiple LPV related goals in first roadmap for ue4, none of them went anywhere tho, obviously
torpid star
and now we have UE5. @zinc matrix sounds like you know enough to write a book!
The History Of UE
I'd buy that
zinc matrix
😛 I just follow the news
torpid star
so the sole reason SVOGI was axed was because of XBONE?
tidal ivy
afaik lumen has voxel gi for large details, ssgi for small details, and distance...
dunno about distance field, but the rest is correct
tidal ivy
so the sole reason SVOGI was axed was because of XBONE?
from what I gather yeah
zinc matrix
like who doesn't hate consoles
tidal ivy
trouble with SSGI, is that it literally doesn't work
zinc matrix
I'd imagine svogi didn't perform that well on PS4 as well
tidal ivy
it was functional on the Ps4, but there's a gulf between the hardware on the two devices
torpid star
it's better than AO but way worse in terms of perf. All I really care about are the little contact shadows you get on movable meshes, without SSGI they look really bad.
zinc matrix
SSGI was developed first by crytek to supplement lpv. it was never intended as a standalone effect back then
I think they may have mentioned surfels for lumen, which was what the DFGI used. In fact the devs had to defend their choices against people claiming surfels could never be fast on the forums (during DFGI development). 😅
zinc matrix
it's better than AO but way worse in terms of perf. All I really care about are ...
https://images.adsttc.com/media/images/5d37/3c8a/284d/d1d4/2900/0175/slideshow/christophe-benichou-architectures-sésame-1.jpg?1563901048 see difference between the very dark interior, the very bright directly lit zone and the GI hit zone
does anyone know what is going of with the future of the gameplay framework btw? were there any news? I see gamefeature plugin pop up on github occasionally but it is very barebones naturally.
fathom wadi
im still waiting to hear what they are going with the geometry cache. It says experimental. It also says its being refactored. But in the meantime, what the holy balls are we meant to do?
fathom wadi
@carmine frigate it works but there is notes that its being refactors and its still experimental. Im not sure what is going on but if it's to add more support for Alembic geo-cache system instead of it being orientated just towards chaos fracturing, it might be worth the wait. Especially with grooms being one of the new toys.
excuse my typing. my hands are a bit stiff today
tends to throw me off a bit 😄
carmine frigate
i had some problems turning it on and off in sequencer
i dont let word like experimental stop me 😛
stable escarp
@fluid bloom why?
carmine frigate
is it just me or does that crane lowering of the rover is just complicating things?
stable escarp
@fluid bloom who ?
stable escarp
uh...
fluid bloom
carmine frigate
that apple series : for all mankind is kinda dope
fluid bloom
carmine frigate
hmm i started the expanse but stopped watching it somewhere
fathom wadi
me too at the start of season 3
carmine frigate
i thought for all mankind has a good vibe of the era
fluid bloom
doesn't it turn into some sort of scifi?
carmine frigate
no
fluid bloom
like, near future stuff
carmine frigate
i didnt see a gun season 1
fluid bloom
wild
I haven't seen it at all so I'm just confused here 😄
is it a pseudo-documentary like that mars series?
carmine frigate
nah
its a mix of man in the high castle and martian
id say its high grade not low budget
usually not a fan of apple products, this is the exeption
foggy path
someone described it as alt-history
median wraith
Mit
That engine still need a boost
Don't even have dynamic fonts
At times feel like a house started by the roof
Isn't bad and have nice futures
carmine frigate
so its better than starting from scratch a lot of the times
median wraith
But when you see GI real-time but no dynamic fonts the question comes to mind as an example
median wraith
so its better than starting from scratch a lot of the times
Don't think they start from ground
They have their own engines
median wraith
Well ue4 this case
carmine frigate
well they can prolly get a good deal
median wraith
Or no idea what's the tweet about
cursive crypt
They need to pass an interview first tho. Send a cv
cursive crypt
Did they replied to you?
carmine frigate
yea i bet that dept is kinda fooked with the covid thing
cursive crypt
Eeh... they send you an email, but they didn't - the quantum email effect.
cursive crypt
Oh, lol
median wraith
If they don't reply in two weeks dismiss it
cursive crypt
That, while not nice, is normal. Sometimes too much CVs and they want to keep their options open.
livid horizon
a bunch of large companies like that don't want to pay the % for licensing, would rather own everything
median wraith
Is worst on the automatic webs from here where you see 3 checkboxes
If don't pass the 3 one that's when they check the CV, basically drop it to the trash and don't give reasons
median wraith
a bunch of large companies like that don't want to pay the % for licensing, woul...
Yeah I know that part
solid aurora
so why did they get rid of DFGI?
It was side project of one person (Daniel Wright) and back then consoles weren't able to support it
median wraith
I like the questions at the marketplace:
Does this work for mobile VR?
Test the free demo on a 970GTX in desktop and returns 25FPS
😉
solid aurora
does anyone know what is going of with the future of the gameplay framework btw?...
at this point is anybody guess. One thing for certain is that current form (and featues) or gameplay framework are not fit for UE5 plans (huge simulated world, live game updates, community content creation). There at least are going to be big internal changes to make idiot proof and performance by default
median wraith
That's good maybe then I can ship something 😜
fluid bloom
no, sorry @median wraith, they won't be making a "make game" button :\
fringe sundial
game framework is unfixable i think
needs to be a new system
the whole concept of the actor hierarchy + component hierarchy is just not going to work well ever
for scaling you need one of the myriad ECS variants
which one doesnt matter that much
zinc matrix
ue4 had plans for massive worlds too though. We got world composition and that was it 😄
fluid bloom
I doubt UE 5 will have much improvements for it
considering it's supposed to be a relatively easy upgrade from UE 4, right?
solid aurora
considering it's supposed to be a relatively easy upgrade from UE 4, right?
Reltively easy only means assets
nothing really stops, from making code breaking changes and really moving gameplay framework into plugin
there is nothing really so ingrained into it, that it needs to be part of engine
solid aurora
ue4 had plans for massive worlds too though. We got world composition and that w...
ok this time its more than plans, there is serious money behind this (;
zinc matrix
blueprints kinda depend on the actor model though. in a massive way too. then there is reflection, replication etc. Sure UE5 is the best opportunity to break many things. But looking at the timeframe of UE5...
I don't expect huge changes, unless they were in the pipeline for 2 years or something
yeah, they can make plans, but they can break those plans as well
svogi was marketed, remember
it was a major engine feature
solid aurora
ok different take, there is serious enterprise money behind this
they are going after Unigine market
real palm
Do blueprints rely on the actor pattern?
zinc matrix
unigine's market? that's a niche market :S
sure there maybe money, but serious money? nope
solid aurora
that's shitload of goverment money market
zinc matrix
otherwise unigine wouldn't be this small
broken sigil
well they are saying ue5 will support massive worlds with 200k+ moving and static objects, this basically means the whole components system needs to go or needs to be massively reworked
zinc matrix
that's hypothetical government money that they have to compete with multiple well established studios that focus on these things
unigine isn't alone
army stuff is locked down tight by the ex-arma studio
foggy path
_Do_ blueprints rely on the actor pattern?
I don't think so, UObjects function just fine in BPs
zinc matrix
any blueprint gameplay relies on actors
real palm
any UE4 gameplay relies on actors
zinc matrix
what do you do with uobject blueprint, hold data? what else
zinc matrix
you can make them, that doesn't mean blueprints depend on them
solid aurora
that's hypothetical government money that they have to compete with multiple wel...
Yes, but it is hardly hypothetical it's here, and they have fortnite money to finally develop engine,
real palm
Actually lots of core game stuff is UObject
solid aurora
point being, this time i'm 110% that big world support is not something that is going to be scrapped
either way
real palm
idk seems strange to say that BP or c++ are dependent on the actor model.
solid aurora
we should see in month or so
they are not
you can move actors and all this shit to plugin
real palm
Similarly to how UMG could be a plugin
solid aurora
most blueprints are actors true
zinc matrix
how are they not? anything that needs to be placed in the world has to be an actor. C++ is one thing, but blueprint doesn't have the tools to deal with that
solid aurora
you miss the point
actors doesn't need to be in engine
they can be extracted to plugin
zinc matrix
so you can either make a completely new framework and leave the blueprints in a plugin to gather dust, or break blueprints completely, which is kind of a non-starter for project upgrades
real palm
Okay so you can maybe make a game actorless but it's still using components
broken sigil
whole purpose of ue5 seems to be support for massive worlds, they are even adding double precision support to it
real palm
ergo, it relies on the actor model
solid aurora
they are created chaos in first place to support it
I'm prettty sure blueprints will stay
real palm
So if making any UE4 game relies on the actor model, save yourself this argument and just say that
solid aurora
but there will be blueprint v2
with ECS componenets
damn i integrated entt recently
it's not even that hard
zinc matrix
maybe I am too jaded by the previous ue4 stuff, like with svogi, or gi (lpv/dfgi) and so on, so I have a hard time believing that epic will fit all of those changes and still make it so that upgrade to ue5 is just like a 2-3 point release upgrade
solid aurora
just workflow sucks a bit but i dont have time to write entire editor
broken sigil
Blueprints are staying for sure, don't think there is any chance of them going away
But I have a feeling the whole component system is going to be a whole lot different in ue5
solid aurora
maybe I am too jaded by the previous ue4 stuff, like with svogi, or gi (lpv/dfgi...
i'm pretty sure that 2-3 releases upgrade means mainly assets
code break will be much bigger and hard
zinc matrix
did assets ever change in ue4?
I'm pretty sure I can copy paste a 4.3 asset into 4.26 just fine
solid aurora
not really, they are sacred to be forward compatibile
zinc matrix
so 2-3 release for assets is a meaningless statement in terms of upgrading
zinc matrix
I mean, sure, plans could change and they can break more stuff, I get that too but... 😄
quiet narwhal
meshes internally had a change a few versions back but it was forward compatible
broken sigil
i'm pretty sure that 2-3 releases upgrade means mainly assets
yeah, code changes are probably going be a massive pain
solid aurora
I mean I have friend who got job at epic as technical director
zinc matrix
before UE4 they had a massive cash injection from tencent
solid aurora
you cant even begin to imagine, what bonuses he got just to work for them 😄
quiet narwhal
I can imagine 🙂
broken sigil
actually ue4 rendering system has changed a lot in the last few version, it seems like in preparation for ue5
solid aurora
wouldn't call few hundred milions massive
if they are now making that in month
and can afford to hire anvil architects from ubisoft
in one sweepd 10-15 senior engineers
zinc matrix
engine development doesn't scale with numbers though. if it did unity would've left unreal to dust because they have 4x the headcount. hundreds of millions is the same as billions if the team isn't big enough to spend all that money
solid aurora
every month 😄
zinc matrix
besides, epic has always been a big crunch with big pay studio
solid aurora
it doesn't scale
fathom wadi
My budget is basically hiring a stoner to sit there and stare into space saying "Just imagine if all reality was just pixels and we didn't need to render anything..." as I stare at my accountant.
solid aurora
if you don't know what you want to do
unity is bad example
stumbling from one direction to another [;
zinc matrix
oh come on... that's basically cult level thinking here
quiet narwhal
Unity was working on a DOTS based Visual Scripting solution then just gave up and bought a third party one to integrate...
they are all over the place
broken sigil
tbh ue4's gameplay framework is a joke, at first it looks great, the more you use it and the more you dig through engine source you realizes how flawed it is in so many areas
That's why I think we will see a massive gameplay framework rework in ue5
fathom wadi
it's easy to learn and familiar though. Better than nothing for free 🙂
zinc matrix
so what I get from this conversation is, ue5 will have ecs with blueprint v2, and its going to release in a month. 😅
foggy path
It feels much better than the system in unity and provides a bunch of useful things
broken sigil
That is true, it works great at smaller scale but the more you try to scale it up the more obvious problems become
foggy path
isn't that the case with quite a lot of general purpose solutions though :D
fathom wadi
i like that its modular enough to replace anything you dont like (to a degree)
solid aurora
you can have generic ECS solution which doesn't choke on 2000 ticking objects
just because
or better
which doesn't choke when you try to spawn 10 objects
foggy path
what kind of a potato are you running if UE chokes when spawning 10 objects lol
fathom wadi
one that doesn't pool
solid aurora
console
i know the tricks
doesn't mean engine shouldn't have gameplay performance by default
zinc matrix
I still think that tim sweeney's transactional framework was a better idea than full blown tryhard ecs. Oh well, maybe next time! (ue6 :D)
fathom wadi
I wonder how far optimisation goes backwards sometimes but I try not to use less than a PC if I can help it 😄
broken sigil
like the whole component system is so convoluted and intertwined trying to rework it would be impossible, basically any new system needs to be implemented separately and current component system completely ignored
fathom wadi
imagine coming from PC dev to mobile and trying to make things work properly on a silly old phone to spec. not for me.
zinc matrix
in theory there isn't anything that is magically wrong with the concept of an actor, and components that hold data like the smc etc
its just that there is too many junk in them that makes them slow
zinc matrix
a lightweight system is totally possible while keeping the same authoring stuff
solid aurora
because of how CPUs work
zinc matrix
no, I'm not talking about that
not talking about pointer chasing and cache misses at all
only talking about how things are authored
solid aurora
that's editor
zinc matrix
no, its the c++ code as well
zinc matrix
you can have the engine treat components as data and do their own stuff without resorting to ecs
solid aurora
C++ code is flawed by design
solid aurora
you cant have componenets within actor and have then performant
unless you run some pre process step to convert it
zinc matrix
make actor a blank slate, make all engine components work like fmeshbatch
as I said, I'm not talking about the current system at all. only talking about the concept of an actor and components in terms of authoring content and code for the end user (ie game developer)
current system is just trash, get rid of it
solid aurora
ok creating something like that took me 1 hour
and it is really useless to make anything bigger without systemic framework support
zinc matrix
and you can get that systematic support without resorting to ecs
zinc matrix
eh, that is waaay debatable dude
most game code isn't cache coherent by design
naughty dog basically completely ignores cache coherence in game code
zinc matrix
they just make it parallel and let it do its stuff
solid aurora
and their games arent big or complex
here we go
cache coherent ECS scales nearly perfectlly with amount of cores
you just PararellFor everything
zinc matrix
I'm sure making a player controller cache coherent will do wonders for performance
zinc matrix
or you know, that one off door script? yeah make dat cache coherent 😄
solid aurora
which for some reason uses it for rotation transform
zinc matrix
you can be cache coherent without ecs
just because current actor system is from 90s doesn't mean you cant
solid aurora
you can also use hammer for screws
zinc matrix
did I advocate for that?
ecs good, anything else bad?
is that what this conversation going to be? 😄
solid aurora
ECS is just pattern
broken sigil
just because current actor system is from 90s doesn't mean you cant
funny thing is, it probably is from 90s lol
solid aurora
and it is probabaly older than 90 😄
zinc matrix
I'm saying, hey, you can throw out all the actor garbage, and still make the concept work by changing the internals. You are saying, no, that doesn't work because I couldn't make it. You need ECS.
thats the quality level of this conversation so far
good talk!
solid aurora
you change engine internal to use ECS
and wrap around Actors for forward compatibitly
that's how i do it myself
doesn't mean another layer of abstraction make things easier
thorny dock
(oh wow I posted a question here in lounge when I thought I was in #ue4-general, sorry about that btw)
fluid bloom
I still think that tim sweeney's transactional framework was a better idea than ...
the what?
zinc matrix
a year or couple years back tim sweeney made a new fully multi-threaded framework based on transactional memory. he released some stats on his twitter and talked about it a few times. He's been advocating transactions before cpus had hardware support for it. If you search enough you can find his posts on language design forums where he goes much more indepth.
normal prism
like the whole component system is so convoluted and intertwined trying to rewor...
Could you expand on this a bit Blue? Interesting to hear, sounds like you've dug into it
fringe sundial
@zinc matrix the issue with the unreal actor mode is even bigger than just the cpu side
for example all the crazy pointery and internal state fuckery means you cant spawn it by memcopying from template
with ECS
you can
on ECS, because (in theory) the components are just data
you can create objects by just copypasting from a template object
and it just autoregisters with the systems
in all ECS implementations, you dont need pooling
spawning and deleting is so fast that its pointless
with the new consoles having direct copypasta from SSD to RAM, having something like that is important
zinc matrix
all I'm saying is, you don't need to have an ecs to have a sensible authoring model. Both unreal and unity has a lot of cruft that doesn't serve any need
but the only answer to their fuck ups isn't to go ECS
fringe sundial
this isnt realy about authoring, but about the implementation for game code
zinc matrix
that's what I'm saying
fringe sundial
the current component model is unsolvable
no matter what you try to do, its core is completely rotten
zinc matrix
yes, you can make simulation code cache coherent with little effort with an ECS, but so could you in C
fringe sundial
its a case of "needs new impl from scratch"
zinc matrix
or C++
fringe sundial
no, its not just about that
zinc matrix
it doesn't matter
fringe sundial
ECS code lets you write better engine abstractions
which means that moving objects doesnt go through 999999 layers of random code everywhere
its a goddamn embarrasment. I have a small bullet hell game, made in 2002, that im porting to switch
the game does its ntire game loop
for 500 bullets
zinc matrix
thats just unreal way of doing things, solving that doesn't require ecs at all
fringe sundial
plus player/boss logic
zinc matrix
especially gameplay facing ecs
fringe sundial
in less time than it takes for ue4 to move one actor
its not ecs, just extremelly basic C without fuckery
solid aurora
especially gameplay facing ecs
gameplay is also easier to write using ecs framework
you write system
you slap component on entity
zinc matrix
ok I see you are going to talk past me, not interested in this, sorry
fringe sundial
@solid aurora didnt know you added entt
in general i found entt to be a bit lacking vs something like Flecs mostly due to the cpp17 requirement and strong reliance on templates
solid aurora
yeah been working on some survival game with energy/oxygen/etc system, mining system etc
fringe sundial
yeh thats obvious use case
how do you deal with hierarchies and actor transforms back and forth from the ecs?
solid aurora
didn'y really looked further, just keepin it, hoping UE will solve my component issues
fringe sundial
thats kinda the main problems i had with those
solid aurora
god forbid I don't
there is not much moving actors for now
so I just left it as is
fringe sundial
what i mean is about interfacing unreal transfrms with your ecs
and back
like moving objects from the ecs or having unreal physics/anim move your entities
solid aurora
yeah I understand I just do not use ECS for calculating transforms for now, didn't really needed it in game
and since it still like 2-3 years away I really hope Epic will get their shit togather and I don't have to think about it
fringe sundial
so your ecs is more just for background game logic
fringe sundial
one trick for the paralelization, from my own research
if you separate pure systems from global systems, it makes it far easier to paralelize
pure systems are sytems that only affect their own entity
global systems are your typical "foreach" loops (or others)
the idea is that you can paralelize the pure systems vertically
instead of each system being "foreach entities", you do the reverse
you do foreach_parallel entities { execute_systems(entity) }
and get pretty glorious parallel scaling
with entt it works pretty well if you do that
broken sigil
Could you expand on this a bit Blue? Interesting to hear, sounds like you've dug...
Yeah I dug a bit into it because we wanted to rework it ourselves
In short components are too "hard wired" into pretty much every ue4 system so changing anything is bound to break something
solid aurora
thanks, might try it later, since seems most of my systems are pure for that definition ;
fringe sundial
@solid aurora on my tests, doing it on entt was a pretty huge win, specially if the pure systems would be touching the same components, as they would be hot in cache from system to system
the downside is how to do the "query" part
for example you have system X that runs on 5% of entities
but if you are doing the foreach all entities
thats 95% that gotta do a check that isnt needed
it can be optimized if you have a component holding which systems must run per entity, or a bitmask, or a "class" component, or similar
solar nebula
if you separate pure systems from global systems, it makes it far easier to para...
Btw, I suggest considering another way of viewing systems - as strongly coupled vs weakly coupled systems
Which partly overlaps with your notion of pure vs global ones
The parallelization can happen along any weak couplings, and generally you want to minimize the number of strong couplings in the system
I mostly work with physics simulations so my examples of strong vs weak coupling would be a bit more natural rather than algorithmic xD
If you have two objects experiencing gravity, if the objects are sufficiently far apart, their positions and coordinates are weakly coupled
So you can run each planet as its own simulation and the small error in input data (position of planet, the error lies in either waiting for last known planet position or taking the current best estimate for planet position) does not cause much issue if the planets end up on different threads
If the two planets were in a tight coupling, the forces influence each other a lot and they can no longer live on different threads
When designing individual systems, doing what @fringe sundial suggests is kinda mandatory due to technical reasons, but it is also best to minimize strong coupling by design, e.g. does your bullet simulation need to know an up to date synchronized perfect world state, or can you tolerate weakening of the bullet vs world collision coupling and can you take a semi-corrupted/unfinished state of the world?
Nothing wrong with variable strength coupling either, for the 5% entities you can run the slow synchronous algorithm and for 95% of them you can run a weakly coupled algorithm that gives approximate results
ancient hornet
anyway, the less states something needs, the less memory it needs, then the better performance (usually)
foggy path
https://issues.unrealengine.com/issue/UE-97716 okay I wasn't just imagining it :P
solar nebula
There are a lot of little issues here and there
UMG's tree view widget doesn't have "expand all" function correctly programmed and never did
And will probably stay broken forever
quasi loom
So, c++
is there some way to create a static array of things that need to be initialized, without having to call an initialize function?
if that makes any sense
solar nebula
What is the actual task you're trying to solve @quasi loom
quasi loom
What is the actual task you're trying to solve <@!718712736963493918>
well, im using an external library called FastNoise 2
and I have these structs:
{
BiomeType type;
FastNoise::SmartNode<> generator;
};```that generator variable is created by doing this: "FastNoise::NewFromEncodedNodeTree("base64 data here")"
So, i was trying to do something like this:
static inline Biome::BiomeDefinition biomes[2] =
{
{Biome::BiomeType::MOUNTAINS, FastNoise::NewFromEncodedNodeTree("HwAgABMAbxIDOw0ABwAAAAAAAEAJAAAAAAA/AAAAAAABJAACAAAAGgABHAABBQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABEAAAAwD8AAACAPwH//wUAAAAAgD8=")},
{Biome::BiomeType::OCEAN, FastNoise::NewFromEncodedNodeTree("HwAgABMAbxIDOxsADwAJAAAAAAAAQAkAAAAAAD8AAAAAAAAAAIC/ASQAAgAAABoAARwAAQUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARAAAAIA/AAAAgD8B//8GAAAAAIA/")}
};```however, that generator variable shows as just "empty" on runtime
not sure how to work around this without making just a Biome::Initialize() function?
which i would really rather not do
solar nebula
Hmmm
burnt cedar
@quasi loom if you inline that declaration the NewFromEncodedNodeTree will be executed each time you use the variable, no? that would be bad for perf
quasi loom
<@!718712736963493918> if you inline that declaration the NewFromEncodedNodeTree...
yes you're right i fixed that
getting unresolved externals now smfh
burnt cedar
did you remove the inline all together?
quasi loom
yes
quasi loom
even made an initializer function which i didnt want to do and that just giving me issues
oh
duh
burnt cedar
😄
quasi loom
alright so heres the thing
in my .h:
static BiomeDefinition biomes[2];
in my .cpp outside of functions:
{
{Biome::BiomeType::MOUNTAINS, FastNoise::NewFromEncodedNodeTree("HwAgABMAbxIDOw0ABwAAAAAAAEAJAAAAAAA/AAAAAAABJAACAAAAGgABHAABBQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABEAAAAwD8AAACAPwH//wUAAAAAgD8=")},
{Biome::BiomeType::OCEAN, FastNoise::NewFromEncodedNodeTree("HwAgABMAbxIDOxsADwAJAAAAAAAAQAkAAAAAAD8AAAAAAAAAAIC/ASQAAgAAABoAARwAAQUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARAAAAIA/AAAAgD8B//8GAAAAAIA/")}
};
so, i should just be able to call biomes[1].generator, right?
but then i get a Exception 0xc0000005 encountered at address 0x7ffb1eddd70b: Access violation reading location 0x00000000
smh
solar nebula
Can you load this stuff from like a data file or something haha
quasi loom
Can you load this stuff from like a data file or something haha
what, the Base64 encoding?
solar nebula
Just the entire biomes definition
quasi loom
yeah i will probably end up doing that
but that doesnt solve the issue at hand im having now with the FN2 generator being null now
no worries though im over in that discord talking now
zinc matrix
how well does unreal work with animated meshes? (alembics etc)
zinc matrix
hah
solar nebula
Maybe an 8 out of 10