latest-updates

[lunar folio]

Anything? Ok give me 24 bucks

[summer wasp]

it's on sale i'm pretty sure lol

[lapis fossil]

It’s on sale for 11 dollars

[lyric hinge]

what kind of torps were your NAVs using and how many AP bomb locks did your CAS have?

[polar jasper]

I was using the medium torpedo at the time of the war, an I believe that the cas had 2 at the time

3 actually

Improved Small Airframe allows 3 ap bomb locks but only 1 torpedo

I could fit 4 bomb locks on the advanced small airframe which does more damage than the heavy torpedo

[lyric hinge]

That's awesome, I've always just stuck with torps for my NAVs but I'm looking forward to trying out the AP bombs (especially since they have almost double the naval targeting of torps when using air brakes)

[mellow rapids]

Basically : Carrier CAS will kill screen easier and Carrier Nav bomber will kill Capital easier ?

[autumn anvil]

to be sure just use both?

[spare epoch]

disruption, (planes disrupted)

means they failed to do their task?

for example if a CAS gets disrupted it wont use its ground attack?

[lunar folio]

Yeah

[spare epoch]

thank youuu.

Do we know compared to Regular Naval Bombers?

[mellow rapids]

Just to know wich to use

[vague sedge]

just to be sure what is the latest version of hoi4?

[mellow rapids]

Cuz actually it's easier to kill screening than capital (logic)

[lunar folio]

1.13.7

[vague sedge]

i have 1é:14

1é*

12*

how do i update?

[lunar folio]

I was lying, 1.12.14 is the latest

[vague sedge]

aight

[polar jasper]

I always use medium naval bombers as they can patrol, spot subs more easily, and drop a larger payload.

Pretty sure regular naval bombers work just as well as they normally do, if not better due to new torpedoes.

[spare epoch]

oh boy oh boy give me some math homework paradox

hey does any of you know how Strategic bombing work with the plane designer? the wiki says "Strategic bombing damage is about 120 damage per attack cycle for ~0.3 buildings destroyed. This damage appears to be distributed among all the targeted buildings (forts, industry, etc.) in the air region without regard to the number of air wings present. World War II bombers were inaccurate, and therefore the amount of bomb damage varies greatly from day to day."

and i dont know what to take from that

where is the equation xD

[spare epoch]

also

• slightly decreased AA disruption from ship AA

thats from the dev diary

[hollow lion]

damage on random building = 120 / (building count of target types)?

[spare epoch]

i was not aware ship AA casued disruption...do they mean damage reduction?

[spare epoch]

yes but now, we have a stat that increases Strategic bombing

it isnt flat

so that 120, does it become higher?

[hollow lion]

Oh it will actually scale with plane count in the beta?

[hollow lion]

presumably

[spare epoch]

hopefully*

[spare epoch]

the ship AA???

[solid gyro]

I pretty sure why the CAS is better than the Naval Bombers on Carriers is because of the higher Naval Targeting.

CAS has 18 Nav targeting

[polar jasper]

I've always heard to use 1 wing fighters, rest naval bombers

The reason being that navs do more damage, but with beta patch, CAS does

[solid gyro]

Naval Bombers have only 6 Naval Targeting

[polar jasper]

I know

[solid gyro]

yeah, i was only restating in case anyone else was confused on why this is.

[warm elk]

tbh i feel like if we are getting Schleswig and Holstein as their own separated states in the new DLC, Saarland should be added too

so France can annex it

would be pretty nice

[polar jasper]

Me who just wants a nice Rhine border

[visual willow]

i want both

[warm elk]

true

[wide hazel]

can we have the great way government in an new dlc

[dull minnow]

i feel like it would be more accurate for it to become a supervised state, and if it becomes independent it can chose to join France or Germany (in historical it would almost always join Germany)

[solid gyro]

Crack of cheat for MP

[warm elk]

yeah true

[visual willow]

The independence part would probs br a bit too much considering it's a super small state

[warm elk]

you can make Danzig independent, and it's a single city

[visual willow]

Touché

[warm elk]

tbh i think that making Saarland it's own thing is a good idea

[visual willow]

Wait i didn't mean independence

[warm elk]

i am not talking about it

[visual willow]

I meant the joining back

Mb

[warm elk]

i am talking about making the Saarland an annexable state

but the independence part also sounds pretty interesting

[visual willow]

I mean if germany gets a state overhaul, releasables should be a thing too

Saarland would be a fairly cool 1 province state

For if you dont want your france borders to be rhine yet still enlarged

[warm elk]

Germany already has releasables though

you have to give them cores manually by using cheats though

[visual willow]

You get what i mean

[warm elk]

yep

the are no releasables for the Rhine, though

[visual willow]

Plus better borders aswell

[warm elk]

so it still could be somewhat redone

[warm elk]

agreed

another idea ; they should split the Sudetenland state into the North and South

[visual willow]

I want oldenburg aswell

Hannover just looks.... off without it

[visual willow]

Yeah for austria it would be great

[warm elk]

yeah

honestly, they should redo Czechoslovakia's states entirely

if you release Slovakia, Czechia looks like it has a panhandle

[hollow lion]

based

[warm elk]

not to mention that you can't even release Carpathian Ukraine

or Carpathian Ruthenia idfk as to what it's called

[hollow lion]

Play Road to 56

Carpathian Ruthenia yeh

Leader of both Ruthenia and Slovakia being priests coincidentally

[dull minnow]

I think austrian states should be redone, after all you cant even do the historical partition after ww2

[chrome hearth]

dose anyone play hoi4?

[lilac cargo]

never heard

[lunar folio]

That games for nerd losers with no lives

[unkempt gale]

what does that mean

[solid gyro]

They need to add more reichkommasariats

[warm elk]

hell no we already have quite enough of them

would be a waste of time

[solid gyro]

Moskowein

[warm elk]

especially since all it does is give them some fancy new names

[warm elk]

you can already have Russia named as Reichsprotektorat Russia or smt if you puppet it

they should really redo outer manchuria though ( Vladivostok states and shit )

you can't remake the pre-1870's Chinese borders with it

[visual willow]

if they nerf them yeah sure

[muted swan]

there are pronouns

wtf

get it on instant gaming

and buy the monthly subscription

coz dlcs are too expensive

[edgy remnant]

Waiting for the multiplayer update be like

[fossil bone]

New Dev Diary coming tomorrow or Thursday?

[strong topaz]

naww frfr?

[analog scarab]

I think it's fine to have a quick aside on the art. Not everything needs to be blowing the party horn and announcing some big, new feature that you're going to receive in a couple weeks anyway.

That said, I did like the part where they explained how the AI picks the biplane art every single time.

[dull minnow]

i feel like they should fix the reichkommisariats, after all you can't form the ukraine one without oddesa but if romania is in operation barbarossa the chances of you getting that state are pretty much zero, and the reichkommisariat osteland needs the state of bialstock ( I think its called like that) even thought that area was historically integrated into the greater reich

[trail pasture]

hm

[visual willow]

they also shouldn't have cores (atleast the eastern ones), that's just extremely stupid at best

[modern vapor]

we are literally in a hoi4 server

[solid gyro]

I wonder if they're gonna add motorcycle divisions this time around

Probably not

But I do know Denmark made a bit of use for them

[paper estuary]

Prolly not in this dlc, but motorcycles would be a cool addition

Cheaper to produce and to buy
Less oil use
Slight recon bonuses
And they saw plenty of use in ww2 afaik, so historical accuracy bonus

[cloud snow]

I don't

[wary robin]

🤓

[solid gyro]

THEY REVEAL THE WHOLE TREE OF NORWAY

[modern vapor]

where

[solid gyro]

in the video

possibly more reveal of all trees

[modern vapor]

bittersteel?

[solid gyro]

ooooo

communist norway

[solid gyro]

#hearts-of-iron-news

[modern vapor]

oh ok

[solid gyro]

wait a min

no communist denmark?

[visual willow]

Bittersteel?

[stuck cedar]

Hi

[modern vapor]

yes

[modern vapor]

hi

[solid gyro]

Yeah what’s up with that? I was expecting a proper dev diary first

[solid gyro]

was waiting for a communist denmark path tbh

[wispy basin]

I'm hyped of norway

[severe compass]

My bet is that they deliberately didn't showcase all things related to Denmark given that some of the focus names still had the non-localized names.

[solid gyro]

and im hyped for denmark lol

[solid gyro]

Same. I heard a some YouTubers whining about it being bland or whatever but it seems cool af

[severe compass]

I'm mostly hyped for the special forces doctrine tree, I saw one of the "stops" had (presumably) airborne tanks

[solid gyro]

That’s a pretty good guess probably

[wispy basin]

the focus tree of norway is good 9/10

[solid gyro]

Personally I’m looking forward to MIOs and alt history industrial complexs/projects

I don’t live far from Detroit so it kind of feels cool that the war industry is getting a spotlight shown on it

[severe compass]

That's also a neat aspect that's on second place for me, but as a certified paratrooper crack addict, I am mostly hyped for this:

[solid gyro]

HOLY SMOKE!

[lunar folio]

Maybe paratroopers will be more useful outside of cheese now…

[solid gyro]

This will make paratroopers actually useful!

[severe compass]

Idk man, I think paratroopers already are pretty useful if used correctly.

[solid gyro]

What cases do you find them the most helpful in?

[severe compass]

I usually execute (what I call) Luftlöwe rather than Seelöwe to capture Britain for example.

[severe compass]

Capturing ports, denying supply lines, etc

[solid gyro]

Ah! Yeah

I haven’t played in a while but I’ve thought about that myself

[lunar folio]

Yeah, they are ‘useful’ but not generally in the way they were used historically; they get annihilated that way

[severe compass]

It's much easier to get air superiority than naval superiority in most cases so I find paratroopers to be exceptionally well suited for these types of operations.

[solid gyro]

You’re right actually

[severe compass]

Oh, yeah if you land on an enemy garrison you're in for a bad time.

[solid gyro]

The thing is though that your transports will get lite up

[severe compass]

Indeed, but usually you can still be effective if reassigning the transports to supply drops instantly after dropping.

[quiet smelt]

Wheres this from? This real?

[severe compass]

I mean, this is how most of my paratrooper plans look.

[severe compass]

Yes, it's from the Dev Insight video.

[visual willow]

I hope they will make paratroopers atleast a lot less cheesy then if they get "buffed"

[quiet smelt]

Link?

How did I miss this

[severe compass]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1V584leGiY&feature=youtu.be

[quiet smelt]

Thanks

[solid gyro]

Hmmm. I’d like to try this strategy. Myself sometime. Strata like this have been kind of impractical until BBA

[severe compass]

Indeed, but they can be very effective especially if you have CAS and Fighters with drop tanks to help out.

Usually I assign some air wings to the paratrooper boyos and try to capture one or more airfields, which I have scouted with recon planes.

That's like the main thing I use air recon for, finding suitable places to drop and finding airfields.

[solid gyro]

I’ve really been sleeping on intel

I feel like it’s too expensive to be worth it

You know. I feel like there needs to be some thing like production manpower bc it’s way too easy to just go crazy and out produce the AI.

[quiet smelt]

Paradropping tanks?

[severe compass]

Hopefully and presumably.

[solid gyro]

Can’t you paradrop light tanks now?

[severe compass]

Nope.

[solid gyro]

😦

[severe compass]

Well, technically yes, as Armored Recon Company

[lunar folio]

And they said they will add new battalions so that might be it

Although not like paradropped tanks were… y’know, good

[severe compass]

Not historically, no, but seeing as there's a dedicated checkbox for historical gameplay, I feel like they'll have their use in-game.

[solid gyro]

Do you think it’d be too granular if you had to dedicate factories to producing big transports like the Spruce Goose and Gigant?

[lunar folio]

I would hope so if they add them, otherwise it’s just useless code

[lunar folio]

Yes

[severe compass]

Eeeh, I mean, I personally would not be principally opposed to it as I have personally tried implementing glider infantry but without any solid way to implement it.

But there'd have to be some benefit to producing them other than just "ah crap now i need this too"

Like with the Gigant, correct me if I'm wrong, it was supposed to be used largely for transporting supplies, so if they had something like an added supply grace period or some such.

[solid gyro]

Yeah. The same is true of the Spruce Goose (H-4 Hercules)

[visual willow]

can't wait for all of this to be banned in MP because it's too broken

[solid gyro]

I think the other thing that they could do is deliver strategic material like cargo ships

[visual willow]

can;t wait for paradropping tanks to be useless as you just run out of fuel

[severe compass]

Yeah, I will admit I can not speak too much on the matter because it's been a while since I seriously read into the subject of gliders and such.

[solid gyro]

Eh hem. Fuel drum module

[visual willow]

that doesn't make you immune to it

[solid gyro]

Yeah, I know but it will probably help it

[visual willow]

but paradropping light tanks with like, wayyy too much fuel sounds genuinly like asspain

[severe compass]

Fuel drum module would probably help but not eliminate the need. Then again, considering how cheap transport planes are now (and I assume you can drop fuel with them) I don't think it'd kill the concept.

[visual willow]

i mean tbf

paratroopers are better meant to land on some good railways and then hold that

[solid gyro]

Oh is oil not delivered with supply drops rn?

[visual willow]

or make a small set-up for an encirclement

[severe compass]

I think it is but I can't recall exactly.

[visual willow]

so paradropping tanks is likely not great anyways

unless you cna just snake forever with paradropped tanks

[severe compass]

Meh, I'm at least going to give it a try before dismissing the idea.

It'll be interesting to see how it's implemented.

[visual willow]

i hope they will make paratroopers less.... needed to be regulated

[severe compass]

How do you mean?

[visual willow]

paratroopers can be extremely cheesy

for example you can paratroop on the frontline and just get free "encirclements"

[severe compass]

Ah, yeah that's probably rather annoying.

[visual willow]

pretty sure theres a few more thingts with them but idk about them all

i dont use them even, they are TOO cheesy in sp, and in mp i am not sure to invest them

[severe compass]

I use them extensively for; (1) capturing ports, (2) capturing bridges, (3) encircling and capturing cities.

[solid gyro]

When logistics update 2? I want a cargo ship designer

[visual willow]

bridges?

[severe compass]

river crossings with railways

[visual willow]

soooo just railways then?

[severe compass]

Basically, yes.

[visual willow]

because bridges are just a visual thing

not counting "makeshift bridges" which is something completely different

[severe compass]

But not random railways in the middle of nowhere, I try to land on junctions and such to get the most "bang for my buck"

I am in no way a good HOI player but I have a decent amount of fun with paratroopers.

[solid gyro]

I’m actually a pretty shit player which is why Italy is my favorite nation. The missions help me stay on target for what I should be producing

#ask-for-help-here

[spare epoch]

But...that's the definition of encirclement

Literally

You...have troops front and back...

That's called using them correctly xD

[visual willow]

yeah... and it's too cheesy

[spare epoch]

It's how the game works? Keep air superiority then

Good strats aren't cheesy, you get air superiority and use transports with a risk...it's not free

[visual willow]

air superiority is already super strong

[visual willow]

It's how the game works
well, yeah, that is..... exactly..... what i was complaining about...

[harsh hull]

Well, if this means that I don't have to learn how to build a good ship, but can just copy someone else's good ship

Then that's fine by me

[spare epoch]

Why though? What should the paratroopers do exactly ? They are a weak template on purpose to capture and provide strategic terrain

What would you do? Drop them head on on a city and hope to God they take it ?

[visual willow]

paratroopers aren't weak if you can do everything you can with them lmfao

[visual willow]

that's not even a good use, you plop them down on railways/supply hubs

[spare epoch]

They are weak, they get debuffs on landing zones and they are the weakest of the special forces because they have the ability to land anywhere , that's their gimmick

[visual willow]

which almost never are garrisoned except after the first time

[spare epoch]

Otherwise paradrop mountaineers

[visual willow]

yeah and that gimmick is quite strong, especially because you also have air superiority aswell

[spare epoch]

Versus the ai

If you manage to get air superiority you deserve a good gimmick

[visual willow]

in MP aswell, paratroopers are usually pretty regulated

[spare epoch]

That's called coping

[quiet smelt]

I once pulled of my best encirclement for voulenteers. if the enemy has a big blob with only one/two railroads leading into it, you can cut it off completely with a paradrop order

[visual willow]

fellas, is it coping to make your competetive game more balanced?

[spare epoch]

Same people that don't allow specific divs because "they are too strong "

[visual willow]

i haven't seen specific divs banned in a while

[spare epoch]

It is balanced . Paratroopers have requirements to use

It's not cheesy

[visual willow]

space marines are quite bad anyways

[spare epoch]

True

[quiet smelt]

Space marines can be abused to make super cheap armoured marines

[visual willow]

just "having a requirement" doesn't automatically make something balanced

[quiet smelt]

Tbf paratroopers are very weak and easily counterable

[spare epoch]

But...alright what SHOULD the paradrop be used for ?

[quiet smelt]

a 10 width standing on a supply hub will kill any paratrooper that lands on it

[visual willow]

if you had a button that just annexes your enemy for free but requires you to have 10 inf, that would still be quite strong

[spare epoch]

If not for encirclement

[visual willow]

??? you can literally still encircle units?

[spare epoch]

The requirement, is expensive...air superiority for major vs major isn't easy

[visual willow]

you just can't plop them down on tiles with units and get free "encirclements" which is stupid

it has no real counterplay

[spare epoch]

....but....how...how would you use them them? What's the solution,

[quiet smelt]

Paratroopers are completely balanced, people not seeing the enemy has them with spies and reacting accordingly (by garissoning supply hubs) is asking to be cut off from supply

[spare epoch]

Make them expensive ?

Require more air superiority?

[quiet smelt]

Uh? Garrisoning the supply hub?

[spare epoch]

How do you balance that Mechanic

[visual willow]

that is literally not what i am talking about

[quiet smelt]

When a paratrooper lands on a tile with a unit on it it counts as if its encircled

[spare epoch]

Yes, but paratroopers have huge debuffs while falling down

Plus vulnerable to AA but hey no one builds it

[visual willow]

your tanks that aren't paradropped don't care for that

[spare epoch]

There are counter measures

[quiet smelt]

Paratroopers only work against opponents with no spies, no air, and no foresight

[spare epoch]

Exactly

That's basically a skill issue

[visual willow]

i feel like you guys dont know what i'm talking about

[quiet smelt]

If you lose to paratroopers encircling you, that is a huge skill issue

[spare epoch]

I understand and you have a point

[quiet smelt]

What are you trying to say then?

[spare epoch]

But HOW would you balance it

[visual willow]

by just... not making them able to encircle units for free on the frontline?

[spare epoch]

The mechanic is to drop troops. Period. Can't change that. So how do you balance dropping troops

But they count as a unit, they do encircle

[quiet smelt]

What are you on about?

[visual willow]

if a units is fighting for a tile you can still retreat through it

[visual willow]

that's it

[spare epoch]

so make them useless

[visual willow]

you can still get railways with them

[spare epoch]

Because that's their number one use for surprise attacks

[visual willow]

and capture land

and all those things

[spare epoch]

to do what? Be retaken after two divs rush it

[quiet smelt]

What exactly are you proposing here

[spare epoch]

Most people are smart enough to garrison supply and victory points

[visual willow]

quite expensive

[quiet smelt]

Honestly you dont have to garrison victory points

[spare epoch]

It isn't really...for a major to have a backline

[quiet smelt]

a 10 width on a supply hub will counter any paratrooper that lands there

[spare epoch]

Exactly

[quiet smelt]

And you dont even have to garrisone very supply hub

[spare epoch]

Thank you

[quiet smelt]

Just the ones that are only connected with 1 railroad

[visual willow]

if only you could land on the railway instead

OH WAIT

also you can still just use them to complete encirclements

like going behind their lines and then connecting that and trying to keep units in

[spare epoch]

Lu....girl... Sorry but it sounds you just got owned and now they to cope because you don't provide solutions...just whining

[visual willow]

even IF those get pushed rather quickly it still gives quite a lot of chaos which is.... something? not sure

[quiet smelt]

In this scenario, only one supply hub would actually need to be garissoned

[spare epoch]

Paradropping is fine. There are counters to it, and it isn't easy to exacute.

[quiet smelt]

Whats the issue with that?

[visual willow]

issue?

[spare epoch]

The issue is she can't have players defeat her

So the game should be simple enough

That's her issue...jesus

[quiet smelt]

Paratroopers landing just to move around and cause chaos are honeslty a non issue i you have like any sort of division, they run out of supply unless they can get to a port

[spare epoch]

Go play Eu4 if war is complicated

[quiet smelt]

And you should have ports garrisoned 100% of the time

[visual willow]

well yeah but the point is that you try to connect quickly to them

roughly something like this

[spare epoch]

Lucy, use garissons, build state AA and pretend every fight has a paratrooper. You will be fine

[visual willow]

i didn't even make clear that the upper line are the paratroopers uhhh

[spare epoch]

That's reward for the player who achieved air superiority

[visual willow]

???? use garrisons on my frontline?

buddy

[spare epoch]

You can't ban that

[visual willow]

it's my frontline

[quiet smelt]

Which requires you to be able to breakthrough and actually catch up to the paratroopers, the land you'd be able to take would be pretty much exactly the same

[spare epoch]

I am sorry ever heard of God damn backlines ???

That's what they are for

[visual willow]

i am not complaining about that?

like i said

you do not get what i mean

because you refuse to understand me

[spare epoch]

I know I know

The encirclement

Is the issue

And I am telling you, you can't do away with it

Because it is counterable by a simple backline

[quiet smelt]

Landing paratroopers behind a frontline wouldn't do much

[visual willow]

ok

can you explaing to me

how it gets countered by a backline

[spare epoch]

Of course.

You-enemy paradrop-frontline.

[visual willow]

nope

not what i am refering to

[spare epoch]

Then I am confused

[visual willow]

no shit

you have been this entire time

i am talking about paratrooping ON the frontline

[spare epoch]

You don't like the encirclement bonis the other divs get

[visual willow]

not behind it

[spare epoch]

OH

oh...

Well...

You are right

[visual willow]

paratrooping behind the frontline is just fair

[spare epoch]

That's kind of.... Unrealistic

[visual willow]

ON the frontline and getting free encirclements that way is just downright stupid

[spare epoch]

Perhaps the other divs shouldn't get the encirclement buff

[visual willow]

i mean the encirclement buff is like, eh

[spare epoch]

Or ... Like a weaker verison

[visual willow]

the real kicker is the downright destruction of your troops

[spare epoch]

Tbh yeah it is a bit...bad to drop paradrop on divs

[quiet smelt]

You can test it, paradropping in such a fashion wont encircle the units

As long as your supply hubs are in range you will be fine

[spare epoch]

If that's true... Then this Convo was a waste of time...

Also I got bit by a beetle

[visual willow]

i dont see how supply hubs are relevant

to this specific point atleast

[quiet smelt]

Because unless they are out of supply the encircled debuff wont apply in this scenario

[spare epoch]

Oh really???

[quiet smelt]

If the unit has a supplied friendly province by it, it shouldn't get the encircled debuf iirc

[spare epoch]

Supply is relevant to that ??

[quiet smelt]

I believe so?

[spare epoch]

Didn't know ...damn NSB

[quiet smelt]

I'd have to test it probably

[visual willow]

i thought the encirclement debuff just occured if they had nowhere to retreat to

[quiet smelt]

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/i-encircled-the-enemy-but-they-dont-get-encirclement-penalty.1456627/

[spare epoch]

I think Walter is right. They need to be out of supply...that encirclement DOES affect

[quiet smelt]

You can retreat into a battle

Even while encircled

[visual willow]

well yeah that upper pocket doesn't get the debuff because they can retreat into other tiles

[quiet smelt]

You can have 2 tiles

[quiet smelt]

Constantly attacked

Out of supply

And retreat between them

[visual willow]

yeah

but paratroopers dont work like that

they fight on the same province they are stationed

and THAT makes them encircled

[spare epoch]

.... that's neat, free encirclement

[visual willow]

and furthermore THAT is the problem i have

[quiet smelt]

So your problem is the paratroopers being encircled and not the units they are landing behind

[visual willow]

no, the units get encircled

that's it

[spare epoch]

No she said that even though the unit has free room on the side

[quiet smelt]

So your on about landing paratroopers ontop of units?

[spare epoch]

They get encirclement

Yes

That

She hates that

[quiet smelt]

If you land paratroopers ontop of units the unit wont get the encircled penalty the paratrooper will

The paratroopr will die almost instantly from having minimal org and the debuff

[spare epoch]

I am sure of that, idk about the encirclement though

They def will die

[visual willow]

even then, you can paratroop the tiles next to it and still just get

[quiet smelt]

If you paradrop the tile behind it, it doesn't really work either

[spare epoch]

No no

You dont get to change that

Because you can't encirclement the Frontline. Just flank

Flank bonus, yes...not encircle...because you would have divisions next to you

So it isn't encirclement

Just flank

[visual willow]

this still just makes it marginally less worse

[spare epoch]

Flanking bonus is fair

[quiet smelt]

By landing 1 tile behind the frontline the paratroopers land with minimal org and can be attacked by the frontline directly.
The frontline units, even while being attacked, can enter multiple combats and kill the paratroopers

[spare epoch]

Exactly

And the flank bonus isn't that big

To worry about

[quiet smelt]

If the paratroopers try and attack as soon as they land they will just stop immidietly from having no org

[visual willow]

again, the bonuses are whatever

[spare epoch]

What I ve been saying so far

[visual willow]

it's the destruction of troops

[quiet smelt]

Whats the issue then?

There is no destruction of troops

[visual willow]

there is

[spare epoch]

WELL THEY HAVE TO DO SOMETHING, GIRL

[quiet smelt]

You can always retreat to a neighbouring tile even if that tile is being attacked

[spare epoch]

CANT DRINK TEA AND STARE

[quiet smelt]

How do you think the destruction of troops happen?

[visual willow]

if it's just the debuff it's ok

[visual willow]

you can't

[quiet smelt]

You-
You can?

[visual willow]

because the game recognises it as occupied by the enemy

[spare epoch]

Paratroopers get main losses...more than yours

[quiet smelt]

Like literally you can

[spare epoch]

It's a fair trade

[quiet smelt]

Its not occupied by the enemy though

[visual willow]

except you literally can't

[visual willow]

it is, it's paradropped

[spare epoch]

You can't Walter when attacked

Does the ting sound

[visual willow]

again, that is the issue

the free encirclements despite having tiles to retreat to

[spare epoch]

Wait wait....so a Trooper lands on a enemy unit...and that tile is occupied ?

[quiet smelt]

But there literally is, you can retreat to other tiles in combat.

[spare epoch]

Only if you lose

[quiet smelt]

It isn't, the tile remains in its oriignal controlers control

[visual willow]

not if there are enemies on that tile

[spare epoch]

Not manually

[quiet smelt]

It only becomes occupied only if you lose

[spare epoch]

but it won't be

[visual willow]

it's in this very muddled state if you have troops on the tile

[spare epoch]

It's a Frontline

[quiet smelt]

A enemy can be on a tile without occupying it

[quiet smelt]

Its really not, you can test it yourself

[visual willow]

yeah and that makes them not able to retreat to it

[visual willow]

so can you

[spare epoch]

Lu, if there are friendly divs next to you, you can retreat to them, we agree on that, right ?

[visual willow]

well yeah

[quiet smelt]

Yep you can, I tested it before by disabling the ai on both countries and doing a lot of paradrop orders in diffrent conditions

[visual willow]

but not if there are non-friendly units on it

[spare epoch]

Okay, so what's the deal if a trooper lands behind or on top of you

[quiet smelt]

The units will manually retreat and can retreat when foced by the player

[spare epoch]

then that's your mistake

[visual willow]

because then you can not

[quiet smelt]

You can

[spare epoch]

You got outsmarted...

[visual willow]

can you atleast show me then instad of saying "nu-uh"

[spare epoch]

xD

[quiet smelt]

I mean, I'd have to re-do it and record it

But you can do that yourself as well

[visual willow]

it's not like i can show you.... well, nothing

[quiet smelt]

"ai [tag]" to disbale ai in the console command

Go check it yourself mate

The game is spaghetti code but its not as bad as your claiming, otherwise the issue would have been reported quite a while ago. I dont know where you got that idea from int he first place

[spare epoch]

Lu, if a unit is on a Frontline and DOESNT have friendlies next to it then it is a bad Frontline and this conversation is irrelevant

We can't talk about balance if the player just made a mistake, or the enemy overpowered his Frontline. That's all.

[visual willow]

you can't magically make the paratroopers dissapear

not if they just, time it a tiny bit

[quiet smelt]

The paratroopers unless they are small enough to be supplied by local supply (thus easily killable with any sort of spare units) or able to get a port (banking a lot of IC on good paratroopers and sacrificing every other type of special forces meaning no mountaineers or marines)

[spare epoch]

I don't think this is such a big issue that needs rebalancing...

[quiet smelt]

Good paratroopers are a huge investment and sacrifice any sort of marines

Which are well

Just better

[visual willow]

it's barely rebalancing

[quiet smelt]

Defensive lines are usually built behind rivers so marines jsut get far more versatility

[spare epoch]

They should make a redcoat template for uk

Yeah should have checked Lucy's status before starting a conversation with her. That's my bad @quiet smelt

[visual willow]

ah yes because it's so relevant

[hushed shuttle]

im starting to feel annoyed that everything is getting locked behind army XP
first it was ships
then it was doctrines and tanks
then it was airplanes
now its special forcres
whats next? giving medals and traits to generals?

[visual willow]

special forces and tanks technically where always locked behind army xp, because of the templates

[hushed shuttle]

i know but now there is like 20 xp needed for a decent tank and special forces were pretty cheap

[polar jasper]

New Special Forces Doctrine thing going to make that little special forces research thing that barely anyone researches go away?

[hushed shuttle]

even if its going to be 50 xp for each special force thing its going to make mountaniers much worse and paratroopers are too useless outside of invading naval focused islands

[polar jasper]

spend 300 political power for ticking Army, Navy, and Air XP and for bonuses for each branch

Annoying yes, but it works

For France and US that is hard tbh

Also I do know they buffed xp gained from training I believe

[hushed shuttle]

thats a year of PP you could use on econ laws so you could in a few months get improvements to special force you need if you're allies or axis

[visual willow]

US atleast doesn't need it that fast

[polar jasper]

That is true

[hushed shuttle]

me wondering if i should get a 10% mil bonus or get a neccesity for post 1941 gameplay

what PDX got wrong is that countries like the US physically cant do anything in the pacific if people forget it leading to the japanese being able to defend most islands without problems

[polar jasper]

Wdym can't do anything

If the US has naval supremacy, they will take out Japan's convoys, without convoys, Japan starves

[hushed shuttle]

if the japan player in a multiplayer game gets beefy infantry units its going to be 2 times harder than before AAT cuz the US noob forgot marines

[polar jasper]

Me who always memes with Amph tanks in SP

Also starving infantry does not do well in combat

Also talking about the update, I have figured that 20 width divisions now suck a lot

I had decent luck with the 26 width people were talking about

[muted stump]

Wow peter nicholson's human disguise is getting better

[hushed shuttle]

super heavies will propably be the new light tank scout meme

[upper oasis]

can someone explain to me how 2 engines wil give you more agility in the new rework, woulnt 2 engines just make you even less agile :v

[hushed shuttle]

Idk probably cuz the same amount of power is used for less weight

I genuinely don’t know cuz I don’t have BBA

[long ruin]

is the consumer good factor only for dlc owners

or will it be for everyone?

[hollow lion]

probably everyone

Its not really a feature, just a balance improvement

[severe compass]

That's actually a really good question, it seems to me that it'd be rendered largely obsolete by the SF doctrine thing.

[harsh hull]

I guess that research brance could be repurposed to give cost reductions for the Special Forces doctrines?

As it stands, the cost of armed forces xp is pretty frontloaded with your division templates, spirits of the army, and equipment designs, so if the Special Forces doctrines also cost 100 xp, it's likely to be a very low priority for most players

So researchable cost reductions could see niche use

[hushed shuttle]

Even if it costs 50 xp it’s not going to be worth it 9/10 times

[harsh hull]

Very niche use

[burnt raptor]

Hello everyone, it seems that the custom map fragmentation options are missing in the latest game versions. Is it a bug or is it related to the latest dlcs? There's a solution for this? Thank you

[visual willow]

do you have man the guns?

[burnt raptor]

no, i have only Waking the Tiger

[visual willow]

since bba i think? you need MTG for those options

[burnt raptor]

Does MTG restore the custom options that allows you to decolonize Africa/America/Asia and fragment URSS and other nations?

[visual willow]

apparently it was "bugged"

and should have always been locked

which is just BS tbf

but eh you can always just annex all those lands and manually release them

not like it was very wide used

[tepid jay]

I think r56 has fragmentation

Though i might be wrong

[dapper skiff]

Just release it already

[static arch]

Just wondering, does anybody know whether you would receive arms agianst tyranny if you already own the subscription or will you have to buy it seperatly?

[lunar folio]

If I recall, By Blood Alone released on subscription a few days after release.

So that would seem to make it so the DLC will have a delayed release, but not by very much

[static arch]

Thanks 🍞

[solid gyro]

You will likely receive it, but depending on how many dlc you already own I'd say just buy it

I wonder when they're gonna make a south America DLC

Cause for Non-Historical it is badly needed

[craggy citrus]

i wonder when theyre gonna revamp the german focus tree

[visual willow]

After reworking more important trees i hope

[visual willow]

I mean if they have the sub they likely have either 1 or 2, or no dlc

[solid gyro]

True

[solid gyro]

I'm pretty sure they won't do any major rework for dlc, at most I think they'll only add focus trees for left over nations

[visual willow]

That's why i said "i hope"

Literally not a singular reason except shitty greed argentinia should get a new tree before the DOD nations have decent ones

[solid gyro]

They do have alright ones

Only Czechoslovakia is really bad

[visual willow]

Lol

Have you even lookef at the trees

They are all just bad

[solid gyro]

Yeah, they're ok

[visual willow]

Creativily dry at best

[solid gyro]

Isk cause I've had fun with some of them

[visual willow]

You can have fun with a country with a bad focus tree

Doesn't suddenly make the tree good

Imagine if they had a good tree instead, much more fun

[solid gyro]

That's true

Tbh I thinks that's what they tried with that live service thing for a couple months

[visual willow]

What live service thing?

[solid gyro]

Idk what they called it

But the Operations roadmap

Where they did little tweaks here and there

[visual willow]

Yeah, but none of those changes as they where will be enough to really salvage a tree

Most countries with bad trees need complete rewrites

[solid gyro]

Excelt the Canadian one, the Canadian one made it way more playable

[visual willow]

Yeah but still quite... eh

Canada is atleast in an uninteresting spot

[solid gyro]

True, but at this points it's more gonna be a Hoi5 thing

[visual willow]

I mean, no not really

The only place that really make ssense to have a dlc over rework is the middle east, and that is just barely

[solid gyro]

Ehh

Asia needs one more

[visual willow]

For what? Some colonies that can't do much and a singular country with some potentional?

[solid gyro]

Siam was part of the war

[visual willow]

Cuba was part of the war aswell

[solid gyro]

And the Dutch east Indies and the Phillipines would have cool independence trees

[solid gyro]

Siam was kinda important-ish

Iraq and Iran too

Then the only real important ones in South America would likely be Argentina, Brazil, Peru, and one of the Gran Columbian ones

[visual willow]

I don't see siam and middle eaat getting trees together

[visual willow]

South america should have a lot of shared parts between eachother

[solid gyro]

Yes and no

Some were sympathetic

But Bolivia was close to become very Nazi-like

So many the general trees but political no

[visual willow]

You know a focus trees will have more paths then just 1 historical path right?

Give them shared trees and they just simply go through different sections

The closely nazi alligned one? Fascist path

Ones that joined the allies? Allied path

[solid gyro]

Geah

Eh

[visual willow]

And like, for althist no reason to go all too indepth

Some could have a few standalone focuses

But most would probs just be packed together with "pan latin" trees that are all just mutually shared

With the states in former gran colombia having gran colombia subtrees

Then you'd have to make like 3 and a small bit more trees in total, for ALL those countries

Bazil is the only one i can see having a completely unique tree

[solid gyro]

South America would likely get a tree like the Baltics

Where the alt-hist and historical paths are short but sweet

With some sort of pan-latin alliance or unification tree shared

Only nations I can see with mostly shared trees are the Caribbean

The most unique paths would be between Argentina and Brazil like kinda a balance to each other

And Ecuador and Peru could likely get some sort of Unique branches due to the fact they fought a war

Prolly a new "intervention" feature based off what happened IRL

(Basically an enforced peace that a major could do between minor nations, or on behalf of a Minor fighting a major)

[long ruin]

Really SE asia needs a tree before South America

Philliphines, Dutch East Indies, Thailand,British Malaysia, and maybe French Indochina

[solid gyro]

I doubt Indochina will get anything

France viewed its colonies more like and extension of its mainland

But the rest do need trees

And hopefully a feature where Puppets can begin to gain autonomy if the overlord capitulated

[visual willow]

problem i have with them is that.... do they really have enough potentional for trees?

thailand like yeah sure ig, but the others?

[sly marsh]

haha hisotorically no? But Hoi4 is taking an alt history direction a lot more so I'm sure they can find a bunch to do with the trees in that context

Like you can conquer the entire world and core it as the UK which is obv just silly haha

And for minors there's some really silly formable empires that are very doable which just have 0 basis in reality but are pretty fun

[solid gyro]

Indonesia had a strong independence movement that could potentially take control, so did the Philipines.
So this would probably make strong Nationalist Fascist/Communist inspired trees

Then there would come like a pro-occupation tree for historical

[visual willow]

there should be more to the tree then "i want independence!"

[solid gyro]

There would be more

[visual willow]

look at new zealand how that type of tree works on it's own

[solid gyro]

But its a good foundation

[solid gyro]

Well yeah, but New Zealand legitamaly had like nothing that could be done with it

Those other nations do

[solid gyro]

After together for victory, the only countries without a focus tree in Europe is Lux and Belgium right?

[spare epoch]

i am convinced no one at paradox knows english

"Finally the last change I want to discuss is the new penetration effect for ships. To put this imply they now reduce damage directly on top of reducing critical chance"

this means that "Penetration" reduces damage???

i suppose they mean armor???

[lunar folio]

Albania and Ireland

[solid gyro]

Ah yes

How could I forget such European superpowers

Lol

Thx btw

[lunar folio]

Not like Belgium or Luxembourg are superstars either lol

[solid gyro]

I mean belgium has potential

[spare epoch]

belgium is historicaly important

[lunar folio]

More than the others I suppose
Would be funny to see Ireland do wacky shit like core every Celtic region

[spare epoch]

unlike ...well....the "spreading our legs" albania

[solid gyro]

I mean nowadays they have to justify their own existence but the Congo was a pretty interesting footnote in history

[edgy hound]

I feel it will just be another Netherlands

[lunar folio]

But as I have oft mentioned, Belgium’s chance for a tree is long gone

[solid gyro]

Yeah

:(

[spare epoch]

do you guys knwo what the new change in penetration means?

[lunar folio]

They probably misspoke as you suggested

[spare epoch]

because i did the math and the old equation made things harder for someone with low pen, but they said that now its more difficult to sink an amored opponent?

[edgy hound]

I dont understand their wording tbh

[spare epoch]

because like i said, they dont know english

[edgy hound]

We swedes are supposed to know it but I guess all of them are 50+

[spare epoch]

plus they have mistakes on their official release...like "imply" instead of "simply"

thats not language skill its..jus..unprofesinalism

s

[solid gyro]

I mean idc how unprofessional they are, they know how to make a good game

[spare epoch]

plus, if you cant explain something simply to someone

you are bad at it

why should i , the player, bust my head to make sense of what you changed

[solid gyro]

They’ll prob fix it

And if not, others will figure it out

[spare epoch]

either way

do you know?

what the Pen to armor threshhold is?

is it like the fraction?

[solid gyro]

I really don’t know

[spare epoch]

100 armor to 200 pen is 1/2 threshlod so 0.5?

[lunar folio]

Oh, btw, where did you read that?

[spare epoch]

13/7 new dev

i posted it on ask-for-help

[edgy hound]

Something they do get right is how to make a banger 3d model

[lunar folio]

Huh? 3D art has stuff about penetration?

[edgy hound]

I dont think so

[lunar folio]

I’m checking a ton of dev diaries and I can’t find it

[edgy hound]

The penetration one?

[lunar folio]

Yeah

[jovial drum]

why the heck it's impossible to rise resistance in british somaliland? i'd like to give it there

[paper estuary]

Austria as well

[pure valve]

Do anti-British propaganda

[spare epoch]

And didn't think about steam page update

13/7 steam page update ...also it was on the beta as well

[warm elk]

it still annoys me to this day that Latvia got a focus tree before Austria

especially judging by the fact that Austria may not even get one in the future at this point

[paper estuary]

I doubt it that Austria will never get a focus tree of its own anymore
They might have on their plans, it might just be a matter of being tied to some other planned mechanic

I may be too optimistic
But well who knows
Might come around in an expansion that also adds a tree to Belgium

[visual willow]

Well, unless they do like 2 more dlc and don't bother reworking old ones

I don't see austria getting a tree in a dlc that doesn't also involve reworking old nations at the least

[jovial drum]

unfortunately i cant

[paper estuary]

Yeah, I feel the same

[visual willow]

"Leftover european nations" dlc that some people throw around i don't see and hope won't happen

Ireland and albania simply do not have the potentional

And otherwise it'w just 2 nations

Which i don't see happening either

[paper estuary]

Hopefully would be an excuse to rework Czechoslovakia lol

[visual willow]

Belgium-germany-czechoslovakia-austria is quite a believable lineup imo

[paper estuary]

Precisely
Makes total sense to me

[warm elk]

Denmark and the Baltics had lesser potential than both Albania, Ireland and Austria, and yet they have a focus tree

despite the Baltics not even participating in WW2 and being eaten up by the Soviets instead

[visual willow]

Albania and ireland do not have potentional

Baltics at the least can do stuff with eachother, but what does albania and ireland have?

[warm elk]

Albania ; defend off against the Italians, political decisions and expansions into Yugoslavia

Ireland ; reclaim the North, either by becoming a dominion or through a war effort

and Austria is obviously just habsburg related shenanigans

[visual willow]

I didn't say anything about austria, they actually do have potentional

[warm elk]

if I said that the Baltics should get a focus tree before No step back, you would've had the same reaction as rn

[visual willow]

Don't need a tree for 1, 2 is literally nothing, and 3 is either 1 focus or a "no" from yugo

[visual willow]

I'd regard them as potentional-full as the netherlands

A bit more

With lithuania as only exception

[warm elk]

the whole existence of the baltics depends on literally an event in which they have a "yes or no" option to get annexed

and the AI always picks yes so they don't contribute to anything even if you make them go different historically

[visual willow]

Except that that doesn't matter a whole lot for potentional

ESPECIALLY not considering trees are for the althist

Albania has an alliance with yugo which would ig be unique? But i don't see it expending a whole lot so it'll be as meh as the czech faction but even more underwhelming

Then an AI only focus to ask to be annexed by yugo

And demanding kosovo which doesn't need a whole ass focus tree

Make it a decision if you absolutely need to give albania flavor

then you compare it to generic baltics

alliance or conquest of 2 other countries

plus you're actually equal size so unlike albania there is a real chance

that's already like, quadruple the potentional

[paper estuary]

I feel like devs lost the timing for Albania with BBA
It was the perfect time to add something, even if small just to add some flavor
But, again, who knows, they might have something planned further in time, cuz it was a weird decision to leave Albania out from BBA

I played Albania recently, just to try it out
The sad part is that ther's no story going on
You can develop a little on your own in order to hold a naval invasion from Italy, but when they attack by land, it's basically game over

[paper estuary]

Well, the whole thing with Austria would probably be to try and avoid Anschluss (habsburg return would be an option I think) and to do a reverse Anschluss on Germany lol kinda absurd, but sounds fun

[warm elk]

exactly my opinion

instead of adding Albania with possible options to enact ( such as accepting the Egyptian royalty's claims on Albania, for example )

they decided to do a boring waiting game in Switzerland with some form of roleplay here and there

it's not like I don't like flavour like that ; it just simply shouldn't have been Switzerland to get it

I have tried playing as Switzerland three times and never made it past 1940 because of how boring it gets once you do the 'main' focuses

[lunar folio]

Alright well I just found it and that was literally not the 13th

It was released on the 7th or the 6th depending on timezone

[supple canyon]

can someone gift me hoi4?

[solid gyro]

l'Angleterre a fait le brexit donc la langue de l'europe ses plus l'anglais mais le français merci de faire la mise a jour dans vos cerveau

@here

England did Brexit so the language of Europe is no longer English but French please update your brain

@rare sigil

[rare sigil]

?

This is a English speaking server bro

[solid gyro]

They likely will only rework minors, as reworking Majors would be kinda useless and set a bad precedent

[solid gyro]

Austria would likely get an alternate-Fascist tree to Align with Italy instead and to resist the nazis

Regarding Ireland

They likely have some sort of potential

It'd basically be a tree balancing Axis/Allied influence

Likely getting an Pro-Allied tree with the Macdonald plan, a nationalist tree based on the Republican army

And probably a small Communist treee

Maybe a small Non-aligned tree because they do have a unique non-aligned leader

Albania and Luxembour will likely get something like the Ethiopian minors

A specialized tree with two small paths

[sly condor]

Any plans for a German rework? Or was that not announced, couldn’t find anything about it

[lunar folio]

That was never announced

I think everyone would like one, but Paradox hasn’t set the precedent for that

[solid gyro]

Never announced, but at most they might get a Communist tree

Later on*

[warm elk]

the Paradox devs outright said that a German communist tree makes no sense ( while they were working on the monarchist and democratic trees for Germany )

even though the communists decided to form a single united front to combat Hitler after his takeover

I mean, the Weimar government even almost fell to communism in 1918-1919, so it was a pretty weird thing to say

but all and all, even if it was there, it'd just have like 3-5 extra focuses which would mostly go something like "Friendship with the USSR" and "Spread the revolution to France" or smt like that

[lunar folio]

Communist tree unrealistic
Hmm let's restore Russia's monarchy

[warm elk]

exactly lmao

ah yes, the mostly middle-aged White Army officers making a return from Manchuria with like 500 people to take back Russia

just to capitulate in late 1941 bcs your economy is trashed

[visual willow]

.....what? How would that set a bad precedent? Is it a bad precedent to fix the bad trees by replacing them with actual in depth good trees???

[visual willow]

Meanwhile in the same dlc you have flatout "the impossible option"

[solid gyro]

Because all of the trees for Majors are supposedly "fixed" it is redundant to go back and rework them again, as this would imply they'd do the same to other sub-par majors.
Same for minors, as a few have trees people agree are bad, although Paradox could do something like they did for Battle of the Bosporus and give minor tweaks, full on fixing some would begin to negate other dlc

[visual willow]

i still can absolutely not see how this is a "bad" precedent

is it bad to bring old stuff up to par?

[solid gyro]

No, it's more that people will expect all the nations with mediocre focuses to be fixed

Or fleshed out

Which is something paradox likely doesn't want to do, and probably a job for hoi5

[visual willow]

so it's only a "bad precedent" for a money hungry company then

[solid gyro]

No?

[visual willow]

ok....

so, what is the bad part about bringing bad stuff up to quality???

people would.... want to have the bad stuff be brought up to quality?

[solid gyro]

Because alot of the trees are "bad"

[visual willow]

that's all i'm getting from this

[visual willow]

yes, and?

[solid gyro]

The Entire Together for Victory Lineup could be reworked

[visual willow]

i do not see any issue with this

[solid gyro]

But doing that for a game that came out in 2016

In 2023

It'd be more sane to make a new game

[visual willow]

not really

[solid gyro]

Which is likely what they will start doing soon

[visual willow]

hoi5 will just start with the generic actual precedent of pdx that all their games launch quite underdeveloped and it takes a few dlc before it's full size

[solid gyro]

Idk about that

Hoi4 is like a Baby ti paradox

Any sequel would probably be spectacular

Because it has to be

[solid gyro]

And generally that's the entire ganes industry sadly, there are very few good games that come out in full

[tepid jay]

Hoi5 will not be like hoi4

Just like how Victoria 3 isn’t like Victoria 2

[visual willow]

like victoria 3?

also stellaris, which is OLDER then hoi4, doesn't really show any sign of a stellaris 2 coming either

and stellaris is from what i've heard their most respected game with a custodian team

[solid gyro]

Idk, people love the hoi4 system so they'd likely keep it very similar

[solid gyro]

I thought I heard rumors a while ago? But idk about that

[tepid jay]

Who didn’t like the Victoria 2 system?

[torpid tide]

hi

[tepid jay]

If it’s similar what’s the point of making a new game

[visual willow]

so they can sell it as a "new version" to get some quick short term money for the stock holders whilst kicking down the company name

[tepid jay]

Still it’s not worth the effort

Spend time+development to make a game that could not even turn out great in releas

Why take the risk when you can just develop dlcs and sell them

[solid gyro]

I mean, who understood it

[solid gyro]

They'd maybe do something like they were gonna try, East vs West k8bda stuff

Where like Mechanics would be very similar yet very different

But tbh, I don't see Hoi4 reworking old dlc nations too much

Because it'd go into a cycle of doing and redoing Focuses for people to like

I do see them creating a Dlc focus for every nation though

Like Kaiserreich

[tepid jay]

Certainly more people understood Victoria 2 than 3

[solid gyro]

That is true

[tepid jay]

Personally, I do not think many focuses to be reworked, maybe when other nations get focus tree

[solid gyro]

But I feel like it's a bit easier to accomplish stuff in Vicky 3 now

[tepid jay]

Maybe easier but it’s a lot less Dunn

Fun

[solid gyro]

Kinda, people gaming the military was like half the game

to be fair though I suck ass at the Vicky 2, Eu4 fighting

[tepid jay]

Should Germany and say US get a rework? Imo absolutely not, the gameplay is fine and I believe a complex focus tree would nerf them even more

[tepid jay]

Yeah idk why they changed it

[solid gyro]

To make it easier ig

Like I was playing a nation with a force half the size of my neighbor, with no technological advantage

And I won

[tepid jay]

Idk

Personally I don’t find it fun

I played until 1842 as Prussia and just quit

Maybe when the game gets better I’ll revisit it

[solid gyro]

I dont play the Major Nations

Same with Hoi4

[tepid jay]

Minor nations don’t always have content though

[solid gyro]

Majors get like so much attention but like Minor Nations are way more fun

[solid gyro]

Vicky 3 makes up for that with its systems, which makes it feel like you're still doing something or trying to accomplish a goal

Thought with hoi4 its the opposite, where minors that don't have content feel lackluster

(That's why Kaiserreich is best mod has content for literally everything)

[tepid jay]

True

Honestly only bad thing about vic 2 was the brain dead ai

Imo

Warfare isn’t great but it isn’t a war game

And atleast there still is some aspect of war

[solid gyro]

Economy was complex af on both

hope this new arms market stuff isn't the beginning to a Hou4 economy

[warm elk]

very true

No step back ruined the AI-operated Soviet Union

the only time that they win against the Axis nowadays is when the UK ai decides to STOP INVADING ALBANIA FOR NO REASON and focuses on Italy or France instead

at least By Blood Alone did not weaken Italy bcs it was always trash

[solid gyro]

Idk, because before No step back the Germans couldn't push past the 1939 borders kn any of my games

[tepid jay]

Tbh in Vic 2 it’s pretty

Simple

It’s just build factory until you have enough factories and then go laissez faire

[solid gyro]

True, but they all shut down

[tepid jay]

If you have enough not all will

[solid gyro]

I mean if you have historical on Allies always win

[tepid jay]

When I staged Warsaw uprising as Poland, Germany was still pushing ussr despite there being a huge pink glob separating the fronts

[polar jasper]

The problem is that the Soviet ai appears to be scripted to do military reorganization when Germany does barbarossa and often gets beat back so hard they can't recover

[solid gyro]

Idk, I think ai is hit or miss

Because sometimes they managed to like stop the advance for a while

Though often they collapse mid-43 or something

[daring ore]

Where is the summer beta code?

[warm elk]

here

[solid gyro]

I once got 300K casualties in one landing

Still haunts me today

[solid gyro]

I lost 1 million men in around three tiles

[unreal pawn]

yeah I once got 271,301 casualties

pretty crazy

my friend who was watching me exaggerated it and said I had 6 million casualties. Like lol if your gonna lie at least make a believable story.

some people in my friend group still believe that guy, I dont know why

[solid gyro]

Is it like in the initial landing

Or like getting killed because the landing failed?

[unreal pawn]

lol

[solid gyro]

I mean like before your dudes hit the beaches

Sorry

[unreal pawn]

yeah

[solid gyro]

Damnnn

Raids or just in combat?

[unreal pawn]

lol

[solid gyro]

I'm very stoopid

[unreal pawn]

lol its ok fren

[solar socket]

New changes to combat width again

In the summer open beta

More here: https://www.reddit.com/r/hoi4/comments/152u983/summer_open_beta_final_combat_width_analysis/

[visual willow]

so 35 supreme?

[solar socket]

Yup, pretty much

Although you can make more specialized divisions now

And the penalty for over-width is a lot smaller

[visual willow]

That only ever really mattered for mountaineers though, or dday

Otherwise going for a generist forrest/plain decent template is enough

In europe atleast

[warm elk]

gonna be honest rn, I always just choose to rush out the generic template instead of things like special forces or mountaineers

the only time that I have ever used mountaineers was when I played as Austria and did anything to improve my chance at surviving

[solid gyro]

I only really invest in soviet mountaineers

Most cause like you can spam q3 big divisions out with like only a couple hundred divisions

[hybrid lava]

hoi5

[long haven]

alvins having the time of his life in this video

[warm elk]

facts

[warm elk]

imagine if HOI4 started in 1935 instead of 1936

we'd have a playable Saarland ( probably as a French puppet )

just imagine the amount of memes and content that people would make out of it lmao

[orchid forge]

Or in 1922

[warm elk]

that's too far off dude

it wouldn't even be a ww2 game but an interwar one

[orchid forge]

True

But 1933 would be cool

[warm elk]

true

1933 is an excellent start date too ngl

[orchid forge]

When the nazis come into power

[warm elk]

but I think that there is a mod for that

( idk, I don't play mods )

ISP did a video on it a long time ago

[orchid forge]

I do since I don't got dlc

[warm elk]

this thing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgBP-vaSJwE&ab_channel=iSorrowproductions

[orchid forge]

I think endzieg has a 1933 start date

[warm elk]

nice

idk why but I just wanna play as the Saarland so bad

playing as Luxembourg and Danzig ( had to use cheats for Danzig so I could actually have the city cored ) was fr the most fun i've had in HOI4

with Danzig I went all the way to 1961

I just like playing as microstates bcs you are always cutting corners just so you can BARELY keep things going for as long as you possibly can

[visual willow]

33 still sounds too long for regular gameplay ngl

[spare epoch]

Guys, during a carrier vs carrier combat, naval bombers perform the "bombing" after they get disrupted and or shot down by fighters, right?

[warm elk]

https://tenor.com/view/real-horizontally-spinning-rat-this-is-mine-and-im-using-this-tag-so-then-nobody-else-can-find-it-easily-except-for-me-gif-26088497

[spare epoch]

Could not have asked something more precise

[spare epoch]

loveit

[solid gyro]

South America would be like way more playable

[warm elk]

not only that ; the Spanish civil war would be less of a pain to deal with bcs you actually have a proper headstart

[solid gyro]

Could probably prevent it

[warm elk]

yeah, was just about to type that lol

but only by sticking with the republic, bcs trying any ideological changes is literally the historical path

but in exchange for that you'd get a ton of debuffs in the army and industry up until like 1941

[solid gyro]

Idk

[warm elk]

still a much better option rather than dealing with that frontlines management system that they've made exclusively for spain for some reason

[solid gyro]

Avoiding war but shifting to the tight also sounds fun

[warm elk]

yeah but that's literally what happened irl

[solid gyro]

Like the American civilwar in Kaiserredux

[warm elk]

if you prevented it and then started to shift again you'd just get a late civil war

[solid gyro]

No I mean like a right Electoral victory that manages to keep the peace

So like not full fascist

[warm elk]

it's either barely preserving the republic ( which already is banded up with communists, socialists and anarchist may i remind you )

[solid gyro]

Or Fascist at all really

[warm elk]

or just triggering a civil war

a peaceful transition to Franco's regime or monarchism is impossible without there being some conflict over it

[solid gyro]

Not Francos regime

I mean like a conservative elected leader

[warm elk]

you literally don't understand the situation in Spain rn

literally every ideology was banding with others against one target in Spanish politics at the time

[solid gyro]

Idk I thought the election was close no?

[warm elk]

the Popular Front was unstable and the communists needed more concessions from the Republic

if you made too many concessions to the one side, then a radical opposite of it would assasinate one of your ministers or something

so unless you did something like a Great Purge or whatever ( as stupid as it sounds for a country like Spain ) then the civil war was inevitable

the republic was simply not in favor of the public at the time

[solid gyro]

I beleive there could be a tree wheel it's like "Gain support on the right." Which kinda sees you intentionally sewing divides in the opposition to weaken their unity

[warm elk]

since when is the right friends with the left?

[solid gyro]

And then like "emergency law" focus to kinds prevent a civilwar and crush opposition

[solid gyro]

They were liberals not socialists correct?

[warm elk]

the closest to that would be a conservative semi-dictatorial republic

which could perhaps be a path or smt

[solid gyro]

That's what I mean

[warm elk]

it's complicated

[solid gyro]

Like not a Franco-ist Spain but one with an elect right leader

[warm elk]

as i said, the Popular Front, THE RULING PARTY, was a coalition of liberals, socialists and anarchists

[solid gyro]

Yeye, but I mean like the focus would have the liberals team up with moderate conservatives or something like that

[warm elk]

ohhh

okay

[polar jasper]

All I know with 1936 Spanish politics is that the liberals formed the popular front with thr communists and the cnt-fai while the falange, carlists, conservatives, and others didn't like that

[warm elk]

that's pretty much it yeah