hoi4-general

[sage plover]

it was just more rushed cuz they didnt have the proper planning, time and that

[sonic sand]

they would've had troops there to slow down the initial assault

[sage plover]

im confused arnt i? im talking about in hoi4 france doesnt seem to defend belgium at all

[sonic sand]

in hoi4 they don't

because

[sage plover]

exactly, but historically they rushed in troops, france doesnt in game

[sonic sand]

I think the dev team is trying to represent

how fast the belgians fell

[sage plover]

i assume its so the french capitulate easier. just like how the UK doesnt defend mainland france like they do IRL, so the french fall is easier for the germans and so that the UK doesnt loose their entire army

[gleaming acorn]

hnmhmhmhm

[sage plover]

idk cuz in the end only a dev can give a true awnser

[sonic sand]

man yknow what i find funny as hell

[sage plover]

probally a mix of both

[sonic sand]

when you're playing an austria hungary game

especially as hungary

moreso than austria

you are fighting Germany for the influence in the balkans

but

because you take austria

and Czechoslovakia

and because you can also take a large portion of poland

they just absolutely fall apart on the allied lines

@sage plover

france has not capped yet

poland did cap

but it took them 4 months to do so

[sage plover]

what da hell

[sonic sand]

and I was able to grab

some polish land

[sage plover]

that is a cursed timeline

[sonic sand]

with a 70 day focus

[sage plover]

that is so cursed

[sage plover]

i love doing that

[sonic sand]

stealing someones land right before they cap

very fun

[zinc light]

I love hungarian monarchy path

[sage plover]

its so cursed cuz like, germany will be taking poland, and u ask for southern poland and if they say yes, you just kick germany outta the land

[sonic sand]

best path in the game

genuinely

[sage plover]

SAME

honestly, hungary and austria are my favourite paths in the game

[sonic sand]

hungarian monarchist path is busted

[sage plover]

their so good

[sonic sand]

you get so much land for free

you can core

so much

you get wargoals on everyone you could ever want to fight

[sage plover]

i love greater hungary so much

[zinc light]

Yeah, it's like... The best part of the game
Instead it's the entire playthrough

[sage plover]

to the point that if i play germany, i still try form greater hungary

or italy

[sonic sand]

fun

anyways basically

to make austria hungary viable

i just use spies running diplomatic pressure

[zinc light]

Yeah it's so easy

[sonic sand]

get an advisor that gives me another spy

and voila

everyone wants to listen to me

[sonic sand]

its rewarding but it feels challenging

[zinc light]

I've started playing Kaiserreich since the Base game has gotten a lil repetitive for me lol

[sonic sand]

like if you piss off too many people at once you're cooked

so you need to play the allies, commentern and axis off eachother

[devout trench]

try kaiserredux if the base game feels repetitive

[sage plover]

greater hungary and austria hungary have such good borders tho

they look so good

hungary is a smooth perfect blob with scissors

and austria is just a box with a cancerous growth

[devout trench]

trying to do a russia path in kaiserredux is like learning the entire game for a second time

[sonic sand]

a good example is how Romania guarantees Yugoslavia until romania joins the axis

then the guarantee drops

[zinc light]

Nah fam, I actually enjoy being sane

[sonic sand]

and before yugoslavia can pickup another one or get invaded by the italians

[zinc light]

Whenever I choose a nation I ignore the path guides and just Wing it

[sonic sand]

having their land stolen by a STUPID

STUPID

[zinc light]

Currently doing fascist papal states

[sonic sand]

STUPID focus

[devout trench]

kaiserredux is the most schizo mod of hoi4 i think

[sonic sand]

i genuinely think

[zinc light]

Agreed

[sonic sand]

that if a nation is at war

you can't do a focus to claim land from that nation

I get why

or maybe up the chance they say no

or something

[sage plover]

wouldnt it be easier tho? cuz if they refuse that just starts a 2 front war

[sonic sand]

because why the hell is yugoslavia signing away ALL OF THEIR COAST right before I capitulate them

[zinc light]

"hey Germany, we're at war and everything, but I can haz Silesia pretty please?"
"Man whatever, Take it"

[zinc light]

Just cap em quicker

[devout trench]

conquering severely underdeveloped countries in europe is just so satisfying

[sage plover]

oh if your fighting em then yeah, should be basically impossible. but if you arnt and their fighting someone else i think they should accept more

[sonic sand]

italy "hey man can I have all your coastline I want it" yugoslavia "oh yeah bro sure its not like another country is ALREADY THERE OR ANYTHING"

[sage plover]

OOH

u mean when you already took it

and they give it away when their not controlling it

mb </3

[sonic sand]

I mean i had it as a contested state

where I owned parts of it

but not all of it

[sage plover]

ye no i see now

[sonic sand]

and they could just give it away like they control all of it

[safe wing]

Austria Hungary, Bulgaria, and Turkey declared war on me as Sanitation Right Poland

[sonic sand]

and I just gotta suck it up

[safe wing]

I won

[sonic sand]

fun!

[safe wing]

I had 3 million manpower in reserve

[sonic sand]

its so bs because yugoslavia is the only way i get a coastline

[sonic sand]

i run out of manpower

so easily

[sage plover]

i rush down the land focus's cuz of itr

[safe wing]

On extensive conscription too

As Poland

[devout trench]

are your templates from ww1 or something

[safe wing]

Because manpower bonuses

[sonic sand]

im playing hungary

[heavy vigil]

ive had that on vol only

[sonic sand]

what the hell do you expect is going to happen

[devout trench]

just conscript your entire population

[heavy vigil]

actually ive probably had it on disarmed too

[sonic sand]

the Hungarian vampires summoning more dead corpses back up to fight again

[brittle cypress]

do carriers count as capital ships in MIO buffs?

wait i just checked

[zinc light]

Honestly kinda smart, Just screw the agressor by helping the less-agressive one

[sage plover]

"hey ik you took croatia, but can italy have it, pretty please?" - yugoslavia probally

[sonic sand]

yeah but I already occupy part of the territory

so its like

[zinc light]

Dont matter

You dont have rights

[heavy vigil]

hoi4 or vic3

[zinc light]

Diplomacy 4

[sonic sand]

they guarantee my independence

[sonic sand]

lungs of tungsten 2

[zinc light]

Balls of Magnesium 5

[sonic sand]

the sims 3 ww3 expansion

[safe wing]

Eyes of coal 7

[sonic sand]

blood of oil 9

[sonic sand]

this actually sounds like a real game...

gulf war something something

[sonic sand]

man I own the land

I control a majority of the land

they only got an isolated encircled city

how on EARTH do the italians come in

and just

yoink the entire coastline

[safe wing]

Because they wanted it after WWI

[sonic sand]

like what the hell!

[sonic sand]

they can't even declare war on me

they can't even declare war

[safe wing]

They were literally promised Dalmatia in WW1

[sonic sand]

womp womp I got it first

what im saying

is

[safe wing]

Try the non historical made playable mod

[sonic sand]

why does yugoslavia have the right to sign away a piece of land they barely control

[safe wing]

It disables achievements yes but it makes non historical more fun

[sonic sand]

they control 10% of the land

[sonic sand]

I don't play ironman anyways

[safe wing]

Fair

[sonic sand]

slows the game down wayyy too much

hoi4 is already just waiting

until ww2 starts

[safe wing]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3140102724

[sonic sand]

oooo

anyways thats why I say

HOI4 LEAGUE OF NATIONS EXPANSION

The idea is to have the league of nations exist in hoi4 as a power outside the bounds of other nations, Normally the league of nations plays no part in anything and was quickly abandoned, this leaves the league of nations as a footnote in HOI4. This DLC should change that introducing new mechanics such as a balance of power type mechanic available to all nations through their decision tab. using political power or your spy agency (if you have la resistance) you can sway the league in your favor the league will also have 3 different world legitimacy levels: level 1, Level one is a weak League of nations which is where we find our league at the start of the game this league can only sanction nations and not intervene in conflicts through the decisions of the players and other nations boosting the league with political power the league will be able to become more and more proactive in conflicts such as Ethiopia, Spanish civil war, Sino-Japanese war and the winter war. This leads to level 2 once nations have put 500 political power into the league of nations more actions are unlocked this middle stage is allowed to send specific peacekeeping forces these forces will have limited objectives and once the league of nations is involved with a conflict the aggressor will have a time limit in order to complete their objectives or else be forced to sign a peace deal. If the aggressive nation gets pushed back losing territory or having their puppets lose territory they will get a decision to sign a white peace. This moderate league of nations will also have other things it can do such as, help unite China under the ROC. Give civilian aid which allows for countries sending aid to lose some production in exchange for more political power gain, stability and if the league wins the war a minor buff to their production. If however the league loses the war with peacekeeping forces on the ground the winners will get a positive spirit giving more manpower and less civilian factories.

Giving civilian aid gives the nation who gets the aid 2 off map civilian factories per country giving aid. This leads us to level 3 If the league of nations protects a country successfully it will level up to level 3. This means If someone starts a war without manipulating the league beforehand they will get a popup warning of potential league of nations actions which will act like the Monroe doctrine allowing for the nation to back down or continue onwards with their plan. Fall out of favor with the league of nations and if you start a war you might be on the receiving end of a peacekeeping force or if it becomes clear that you aren't backing down no matter what members can choose to intervene directly in the conflict. If a war is declared through the league of nations and the league wins through capitulation no land can be taken and the loser becomes a league controlled area for 1 year then a pro democracy government takes control. If Germany is to capitulate to the allies without France capitulating the league of nations will be renamed to the UN. The league of nations will have many challenges and even more enemies, can you change the path of history? Can you lead the beacon of peace, or will you corrupt it into an organization that is powerless to stop you.

TADA!!!!

[safe wing]

https://tenor.com/view/enough-wrap-it-up-shorten-it-one-punch-man-opm-gif-18852352

[sonic sand]

*this is not spam there was no conversation beforehand this did not change the flow of the conversation

[sonic sand]

basically

you get to

do league of nations stuff

like a telltale game

[safe wing]

So basically do absolutely nothing until 1940

When you get disbanded

[sonic sand]

thats where the player comes in

you can choose to send political power to the league of nations

bolstering its power

giving national spirits to countries that participate

if they do successful peacekeeping missions

or stop a war

for example getting involved in the spanish civil war

or the italo ethiopian war

or the sino japanese war

or the winter war and so on

basically

you put political power into the league

and whenever theres a conflict the league can intervene

if the league intervenes successfully

it bolsters the legitimacy of the league

which makes it easier for it to get involved

doing things for the league will also give you buffs if you win

so like

if you give humanitarian aid

which removes a number of civilian factories and gives them to another nation as an offmap civ factory

if you win the war

then

you get a buff to construction speed and stability

and so on

@safe wing

[viscid stirrup]

Lil bro smoking isnt an addiction its a dedication

[sonic sand]

uh...

communist is speaking, words ignored.

[viscid stirrup]

Ive quit smoking over 40 times just this month

[sonic sand]

im sorry to hear that

hey did you know its very easy to quit smoking in communist societies?

[viscid stirrup]

Yo u wanna talk abt communism?

If u do lets move to dms

[sonic sand]

they're so poor you can't even get a pack of cigarettes

[viscid stirrup]

Mods dont like political discussion😭 😭 😭

[viscid stirrup]

So u wanna talk abt communism in dms

I would debunk all your arguments

[sonic sand]

in 1970 a man decides to go to the soviet union

he lands at moscow

[viscid stirrup]

Alr vro im going to dms

[sonic sand]

and he gets off his flight

he walks the streets of moscow

and he falls in a hole

after he gets out he exclaims to a local "why weren't there any red flags indicating there was a hole here???"

the local responds

"didn't you see the giant red flag hanging on the kremlin when you landed?"

[zinc light]

You occupy the Land*

[sonic sand]

what are they going to do?

say nuh uh you don't own the land because you don't control it?

[sudden thistle]

Ur 13

[green moss]

Europaconomy

planning to form European Union whilst winning European War

[viscid stirrup]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke

[hoary mortar]

what the hell

[heavy vigil]

hi jellyfish

[sudden thistle]

It’s a horrible joke then

It’s supposed to be funny

[hoary mortar]

What else shall I do for this design.

my fighters are getting murdered in Britain

[zinc light]

Exactly
As you saw in your game

[heavy vigil]

wrong MIO

you dont have triple HMG

you dont do the 25% range

[hoary mortar]

Oh

[heavy vigil]

you do 50% or if 900km + rangte you do armor plate

range*

also

[hoary mortar]

ok then, so do Focke Wulf mio? I dont see anything for hmg

[heavy vigil]

what air doctrine?

[heavy vigil]

yes

[hoary mortar]

battlefield support

[heavy vigil]

worst one for fighters

damn

[hoary mortar]

Dang

didnt know that, I just stuck with it by default

[hoary mortar]

what would be the best doctrine for fighters then, strategic destruction? or operational integrity

[heavy vigil]

operational integrity but not by much

[hoary mortar]

gott im himmel stop RUNNING AWAY

[lucid sonnet]

guys i dont think this is hoi4

[azure palm]

This is just a giant fever dream...

[paper echo]

love the casualities

[hoary mortar]

and my entire army died in sea lion

time to scumsave

[uncut pollen]

Its hoi 5

[hoary mortar]

oh ffs

and they're dead agian

cool

[sudden thistle]

Rip

[hoary mortar]

HUH

[green moss]

???

[hoary mortar]

how tf are my tank divisons so slow

[warped flint]

No fuel?

[hoary mortar]

Nope got 264days left of fuel

The tank desing itself has 7km speed but the medium division is alsos tuck to 7kmh

[green moss]

people love me

[warped flint]

I am not 100% sure but they could be hit by planes which could slow them maybe?

[green moss]

Economy so good I can end world hunger

[hoary mortar]

Doubt it. Theres no planes over france rn

[green moss]

European Union so federalised that it will form the moment European War ends

[sudden thistle]

Terrain

[fervent minnow]

should i play tfr

[sudden thistle]

Supply

Uhhh generals effect it

[green moss]

Thanks to my 2 year plans

[warped flint]

Yes

do Russia

[green moss]

First 2-year plan: civilian sector
Second 2-year plan: military sector
Third 2-year plan: energetic sector

[fervent minnow]

alr

[hoary mortar]

rn their under this guy

[green moss]

May USE succeed USA!

it's not doing well right now

[sinful cloud]

when you have to make sure Italy AI doesn't fumble

[green moss]

oh and uh

I have to fight Soviet Union

in it's new prime

[hoary mortar]

my planes

are getting slaughtered

[sudden thistle]

Damn

[queen otter]

What are easy nations to start in

[hoary mortar]

bruh

[safe wing]

Italy, Germany, USSR

[hoary mortar]

They're so damn hard to push

[eternal palm]

Wdym 😭

U didn't even bring similar div counts of course you can't push them

[hoary mortar]

infantry im using

[eternal palm]

Ye this is ass

Also what about air

[hoary mortar]

bruh

[sonic sand]

belgium holds the record for the longest time without a goverment

its a fun tradition they do every once and a while

dissolve their goverment

[sonic sand]

remove one infantry and add one arty!

[hoary mortar]

Dang, i always loved using that template. Sure ig

3 arty or just 1

[sonic sand]

3

its 25 width got okay ish org

[hoary mortar]

k

i'll do that then

[sonic sand]

like

it sucks

as a template

its not very good

[hoary mortar]

and all my tanks there dead

yay

[sonic sand]

but I take it you don't want to fully redesign your army

[hoary mortar]

no not really.

I'm loading to a save 3 months before

[sonic sand]

so basically

you

remove a little org

for

180 soft attack

like i said

not very good as a template

but

[hoary mortar]

How about this, I dont really know the meta for these

[eternal palm]

Ouch

[sonic sand]

that is what i said to do

[sonic sand]

its better than the other one

[naive pine]

F hoi4, why can't you build empty ships and equip them latter? Why do I have to waste xp or ic to get the ships out?
Like why do I need to waste so much IC on producing extra starting modules ill replace anyways?

And another idiotic function is trade. Why the f do I need to check in every week or month to make sure the trade is accurate for every mil I build.

Why can't the ai do trade? And why can't you just have a counter for the resources so you don't trade 1 ic for 1 rubber and WASTE 7 rubber which of course isn't saved for later.

Hoi3 is so much better. Hoi4 was a disaster for the human race.

[hoary mortar]

Ye. Plus this is the only design i see for 1940fighteres anywhere

[paper echo]

uhhh

[sonic sand]

#ask-for-help-here

[paper echo]

there are 5 germanies bro

and the german reich is left in tsingtao

[sudden thistle]

Mitosis

[dusky burrow]

Meta for infantry divisions is all infantry

[hoary mortar]

Oh

so paradox made arty completely useless then

[dusky burrow]

And typically 18 width for defensive purposes or 36 width divisions for offensive purposes

[paper echo]

bruh

[dusky burrow]

In most cases yes

[paper echo]

i accidentally puppeted the german bohemia

[hoary mortar]

Thanks paradox for making the most deadly weapon on a battlefield useless and a detriment to ur army.

[warped flint]

Don't use this

arty is shit

line arty at least

[hoary mortar]

whats the difference

by line arty do u mean the support one?

[sonic sand]

the arty division

[warped flint]

No

the arty battalion

Support arty is the one on the support company

[sonic sand]

i do not understand why arty is considered bad

its not terrible

overhated a bit too much

[hoary mortar]

so just this

[paper echo]

i think people hate line arty cuz its expensive for what it does

[sonic sand]

i mean its for soft attack

[paper echo]

support arty is goated tho

[sonic sand]

its kinda on the box

[opal nymph]

Line artillery is quite mediocre with what you get

[sonic sand]

you get a big gun

[opal nymph]

Especially when it takes 3 combat width

[warped flint]

Yeah remove all those

[sonic sand]

what were we expecting people

[opal nymph]

If it was 1 combat width it would be great probably

[hoary mortar]

damn

Screw u paradox

[warped flint]

Yeah artillery is extremely important in actualy wars

needs to be better

[sudden thistle]

Yeah

[hoary mortar]

juse use this then

[warped flint]

Support arty is pretty decent tho

[warped flint]

What doctrine are you

[hoary mortar]

Exactly. Needs a proper buff considering how potent it is in wars. Especially offensives

[sonic sand]

i use this with support anti air

in my single player runs

[hoary mortar]

mobile warfare

[warped flint]

Works against ai but much better things you can do

[sonic sand]

AND ONLY BECAUSE HUNGARY HAS NO INDUSTRY

and also no resources

[warped flint]

wdym

you can like invade all your neighbours

just take those

[sonic sand]

yes

i do

but the industry is still not enough

[hoary mortar]

I'll just use this 18width infantry then. No artillery battalions

[warped flint]

how

Just do mass mob

[warped flint]

Yeah thats fine

also are you doing mass mobilization doctrine

[sonic sand]

what

no!

[hoary mortar]

i love redesigning my entire army in the middle of a war

[warped flint]

Mass mobilization doctrine

[sonic sand]

so peak

[hoary mortar]

Mobile warfare.

[warped flint]

its way better

[warped flint]

oh god

thats the worst doctrine if I remember correctly

[sonic sand]

i do superior firepower!

[opal nymph]

Mobile Warfare isn't the worst. It is one of the worst in MP

[warped flint]

Second worst

[dusky burrow]

If you're not changing the manpower count it isn't bad

[sonic sand]

there are 4 doctrine types

[hoary mortar]

FOR FU

are u seirous

[opal nymph]

Mobile Warfare works in SP

What is the situation

[sonic sand]

all the doctrines are the worst doctrine

[hoary mortar]

how do i always find out that 85% of my build is completely unuseable dogshit while im in the middle of a campaign

[opal nymph]

Better to stay on doctrine than switch imo

[sonic sand]

because everyone hates everything

[warped flint]

Gbp and mass mob are the only doctrines I use

[opal nymph]

What is the situation

[hoary mortar]

ye im not switching a thing

[sonic sand]

and the meta people of this game like to ruin the fun of playing the game!

[dusky burrow]

Mobile warfare works for two things
- very fast divisions (e.g. armored cars)
- defensive infantry that aren't the infantry unit (e.g. certain mountaineer builds)

[hoary mortar]

German Navy. just having a pain finding the main british fleet that keeps running away

[opal nymph]

Kulik's Law: Any talk of Mobile Warfare or Superior Firepower will evoke the wrath of meta players
Newbie's Law: Any new player who goes to ⁠ask-for-help-here will instantly be forced to learn the meta by the meta players
Meta Player's Fallacy: Those who teach the meta fail to explain how the game or meta works for the player to understand

[dusky burrow]

Those very fast divisions can be fun

[hoary mortar]

tell me this is fine at least

[sonic sand]

yes!

[opal nymph]

Convoy raid with subs, then Brits send their sub killers, then you send your fleet, then they send their fleet

[hoary mortar]

Sure thing. I just need to rebuild my subs

[warped flint]

Thats meta I belive

[dusky burrow]

So there's a use for mobile warfare, and it is definitely better in singleplayer, but generally not the best

[warped flint]

oh wait you can get a better air range thing

takes some air defense but its fine

[warped flint]

besides that its perfect

[opal nymph]

Meta if you use regular fuel tanks instead of drop tanks and HMG rather than LMG. Otherwise should be fine

[dusky burrow]

Unfortunate

[hoary mortar]

Thank you

[opal nymph]

There is a lot more of those in pins in off-topic

[sonic sand]

man I love how my arty build gets hate!

even though like

[opal nymph]

You hated me for having light mode

[sudden thistle]

True

[sonic sand]

i also use light mode

[sudden thistle]

There is always people who will be more meta

[warped flint]

Is it worth going down here to get this if I already fixed dividied nation

[opal nymph]

Wait, I thought you dm'd me or was it someone else

[sonic sand]

it was me

[opal nymph]

ah

[sonic sand]

it was me Barry

[dusky burrow]

I mean you got 150 political power, 10% stability, and 10% war support

That's pretty good, but you might not need it if you have a lot of those

[hoary mortar]

bruh

[warped flint]

But I lose out on some industry I thnk

[hoary mortar]

i only got 2 submarines

[warped flint]

Guess I could maybe use it?

[dusky burrow]

Yeah you can use it it seems

stability boosts your industry by some amount too tbh

[mild musk]

yall when is the new japan dlc releasing

[hoary mortar]

i lost over 30 of my subs the eyar before😭

[dusky burrow]

November 20

[mild musk]

dang that's far

[warped flint]

That early?

wow

[dusky burrow]

You can build like 1 sub per dockyard per year

So with 30 dockyards you can produce 30 subs a year

[quasi basin]

what is this

[devout trench]

the partisans

[hoary mortar]

Welp this is gonna be a long war

ty

[warped flint]

If I join the Comintern will the Germans still demand the Sudeten land

As czechoslovakia

[hoary mortar]

lmao love that malcolm in the middle scene

[mild musk]

wth no cursing allowed??

[quasi basin]

but why this did happen, I´ve never seen this

[dusky burrow]

Indians angry at British famine policies

[mild musk]

crazy restriction

[outer tide]

i think the quility made it even better

[hoary mortar]

Fr lol

just a rapid fade to black

[outer tide]

anyways the shit is about to bust out gtg

https://tenor.com/view/dragon-ball-dragon-ball-z-goku-farewell-the-end-gif-1060626508820084383

[sonic sand]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-breakdance-gif-26100320

[hoary mortar]

cya

ima have to spend a wohle year rebuilding my sub fleet for this then

YESPELASE

DONT U DARE RUNA WAY BRITAIN

[ripe bone]

Idk why people said they only be able to play until 1953-1957 when im literally able to play until cold war ??? maybe my 5Ghz Cpu help me alot ?

[warped flint]

?

[hoary mortar]

FORFOOKSAK-

i wish they'd stop RUNNING

[paper echo]

my stupid ass puppeted japan instead of korea in north korea

[sinful cloud]

yummy

[paper echo]

i am NOT waiting for commie china to do its thing

speaking of china

thats nationalist china

[mild musk]

that's actually nuts lmao

allat for 43 mils

[paper echo]

they were like 95% towards capitulation on japanese war so thats why they are on scraping the barrel

[mild musk]

you should've let them capitulate tbh

[paper echo]

nah i didnt want commie china to also be gone

and i wouldnt have enough war score to puppet on peace deal

[mild musk]

ooh right

heisenberg is at it again

[tiny iris]

Hello my six sevens. Hru?

[mild musk]

that meme is expired bro we've moved on already

[tiny iris]

Its not dead.

Unfortanely.

[mild musk]

nobody says it anymore it's no longer funny

[unique crag]

since when did stalin get sum barber action?

[tiny iris]

It was never funny.

[paper echo]

now that i think about it i could just declare on china since they didnt have enough troops

[mild musk]

just like all of the trending "memes" and "jokes" on tiktok nowadays

[tiny iris]

I wish there were ranks in the server...

[unique crag]

hasan's dog is funny meme

[paper echo]

levels?

[tiny iris]

I wanna level up...

[tiny iris]

Yes.

[paper echo]

yeah it would be cool

[mild musk]

who needs one when you have this

[paper echo]

bullying the low levels

[unique crag]

what you wanna call it? Max level is cave dweller?

[mild musk]

i only remember that one fat guy from hasan

[tiny iris]

We play HOI4, we are cave dwellers.

[mild musk]

if you know

[unique crag]

https://tenor.com/view/hasan-kaya-shock-shocked-shock-collar-gif-7974466593909008881

[mild musk]

why is this guy everywhere though

[unique crag]

he shocked his dog live on stream

shock collar

and he tries to lie his way out of it

[plucky ridge]

Oh I saw that

[mild musk]

even AI couldn't recreate such thing

[unique crag]

people make fun of him expecting his dog to act as prop for a 12h stream

he just shocket the dog for moving off his platform

[plucky ridge]

I remember seeing clips of that happen

[unique crag]

same

its flooded with those everywhere

[plucky ridge]

It is

[hoary mortar]

fr

[mild musk]

to be fair paradox games especially hoi4 is built in a way to make you addicted with their never ending games and dlc pushing

tricked me somehow

[unique crag]

dlc's keep it with 40k active at all time rather than 300k peak once and then 8k static

[mild musk]

nah that's not the dlcs that's the mods keeping the game active

[sudden thistle]

Evil

[unique crag]

also yeah

[mild musk]

without mods the game would probably average ~15k players or less

i mean you're gonna get tired of constant ww2 one time right

mods are very nice

[safe wing]

He’s also a disgusting champagne socialist too

[mild musk]

hasan is a radical left?

[unique crag]

yesish

[safe wing]

Oh yeah he is

[mild musk]

aw hell naw

[safe wing]

And you all know what I think of the radical left

I hate them as much as the radical right

[mild musk]

I don't know what you think of them but I despise them

[unique crag]

im centre so im not really affected

neutral is best

[sonic sand]

i hate both left and right

communists are dumb

failed ideology

facists are dumb

failed ideology

[mild musk]

radical lefts and radical rights*

[sonic sand]

no no

both of them suck

[safe wing]

100%

[mild musk]

i mean to be fair fascism isn't really a failed ideology but it's also disgusting

[sonic sand]

it is

tell me any powerful facist nation

[mild musk]

left and right are way more than "socialism and fascism"

center-left, moderate-left, far left-, centrist, center-right, moderate-right, far-right

[safe wing]

It did because it revolved around Germany and Italy conquering the world

[sonic sand]

socialists suck too!

[safe wing]

In their cases

[mild musk]

there's no such thing as "communism" socialism is the correct phrase anyways

[safe wing]

And Japan

[warped flint]

Shit I accidently clicked this deciseion

[sonic sand]

tell that to all the communists!

[sonic sand]

yikes

[safe wing]

All 3 were bloodied in 8 years

[unique crag]

i do that always

[safe wing]

And defeated

[mild musk]

italy's and mussolinis plan wasn't to take over the world but they did believe in extreme xenophobia and ultranationalism

[azure palm]

We all love the easter eggs

[mild musk]

they jumped in ww2 after they saw germanys success

[sonic sand]

have you

like

ever

read

or

like

consumed

[safe wing]

A polish socialist called me pro geno-cide because I supported the USA dropping nukes on Japan

[sonic sand]

any

historical text

ever

[wanton whale]

What was the USSR then?

[sonic sand]

communist

ofc

[mild musk]

poles are so stupid at times lmao, USA was right no matter what anybody tells me

[unique crag]

starving

[sonic sand]

this guy is a genuine dumbass!

[mild musk]

this is SO wrong it's funny

[sonic sand]

they weren't

[wanton whale]

Real

[safe wing]

In 1945 especially

[mild musk]

if USSR was communist then it wouldn't have a state, it wouldn't have a government, it wouldn't have a dictator, there would be absolutely NO private ownership, and absolutely all classes would be demolished

USSR was socialist

[sonic sand]

they shouldn't have dropped the nukes.

japan was already about to surrender

[mild musk]

socialist, there are many different forms of socialism

[mild musk]

no they were NOT

[safe wing]

Japan was willing to throw every man woman and child to death against a landing force

[sonic sand]

starving, starving, starving and starving!

[sonic sand]

ok then

[mild musk]

famines and purges, yes

[sonic sand]

drop a nuclear bomb off the coast of tokyo!

tada

[safe wing]

The government was going to surrender not the army

[mild musk]

bro what is that gonna do 😭

[safe wing]

And we saw how that worked in 1931

[sonic sand]

then tell them their cities are next!

[split bane]

I really wonder why this decision exists

[sonic sand]

and that its the last chance to surrender before their entire population is bathed in nuclear fire

[warped flint]

Yeah its worthless

[split bane]

Same with the Maginot line one but atleast that one gives you some construction speed iirc

[safe wing]

Except they already had by then

Tokyo was fire bombed in March 1945

[sonic sand]

so then

one

big

bomb

[mild musk]

I doubt they'd work, the japanese were absolutely EAGER to keep all the land they conquered especially china

[sonic sand]

capable of destroying a city

[sonic sand]

and so then

why did they submit with the nuclear bomb

[mild musk]

it didn't work, until they dropped another one and japan realized if they didn't surrender they'd nuke a city after city

[safe wing]

And the soviet invasion too

[split bane]

They were nuked twice and the Soviets were marching into Manchuria

[sonic sand]

they already firebombed every Japanese city

[sonic sand]

yes i know

but again

[safe wing]

Not Hiroshima and Nagaski pre August

[sonic sand]

not being nuked at all

[mild musk]

they intentionally didn't firebomb hiroshima and nagaski because they had planned to nuke them, so the nukes MAY have saved more lives than killed although debatable

[safe wing]

Also the atomic bombs were originally going to be used for Germany

[sonic sand]

ok like I understand we are arguing but claiming that is mental

shows of force have worked before

[mild musk]

constant firebombing on a city is very brutal and claims shit ton of lives

[sonic sand]

and vaporizing and causing nuclear hellfire doesn't do the same thing?

dropping the power of the sun on your enemies isn't as bad as dropping some bombs that start fires?

[mild musk]

the difference is it made japan surrender which saved far more lives

we've interviewed japanese war generals after ww2 and all of them said that japan wasn't gonna give up their territories so easily

[sonic sand]

correlation doesn't equal causation!

[unique crag]

innocent or soldier lives?

[safe wing]

Japan controlled all this in 1945 btw

[mild musk]

they were looking for a naval invasion on their mainland which would've been extremely lives-costly

[unique crag]

one year and they would be done fr

get the soviets in and cut south off

[mild musk]

why does it matter? both of them are human lives

[safe wing]

China won at Hunan, the British in Burma

[unique crag]

nukes on cities with no military importance

just civilian lifes lost

[sonic sand]

and the US blowing up the sea with the power of the sun causing a shockwave that blows out the windows of every building in mainland Tokyo and also causing large waves

is mercy

killing innocents

is not

[mild musk]

the "just one more year and they would be done fr" would've took a lot more lives than the "immoral nukes"

[safe wing]

The Yamato class was built in Hiroshima

At Kure shipyards

[indigo rune]

green my beloved

[dawn mango]

35 days till dlc🈵 🈯 🎋

[sonic sand]

mhm

it was

[safe wing]

If anything Hirohshima and Nagasaki were military targets given the naval industry

[sonic sand]

but saying that is like saying "guns were made in california so we should remove all of california from a map"

[safe wing]

As they were both ports

[sonic sand]

if it was such a big deal

[mild musk]

bro the nuke was relatively weak as shit it didn't shake all of japanese mainland wtf

[unique crag]

brother

[mild musk]

i doubt the shockwave even reached the city closest to hiroshima

[safe wing]

Thats a bad comparison as guns are made everywhere in any country

[sonic sand]

so are ships

where the hell do you think their steel is from?

wheres the oil from

where are all the parts made?

the shells

whatever

[safe wing]

Indonesia duh

[sonic sand]

so bomb that instead

[safe wing]

That was occupied territory

By Japan

[sonic sand]

ok then

bomb a military base then

[safe wing]

The Indonesians hated the Japanese

[unique crag]

then cut it off

[safe wing]

And still do

[safe wing]

We did?

[sonic sand]

bomb a military base

go and bomb some random military base

[safe wing]

We did from July 1944-August 1945

[sonic sand]

with the nuke.

[mild musk]

they would've gave far less shits about indonesia than their mainland getting nuked

[sonic sand]

ok

so

why did they surrender

[mild musk]

so? it wouldn't cause them to capitulate

[unique crag]

https://tenor.com/view/explosion-mushroom-cloud-atomic-bomb-bomb-boom-gif-4464831

[mild musk]

because..... their mainland was nuked?

[sonic sand]

if firebombing was much more distructive than the nukes

[safe wing]

I swear most people like Japan because anime and shit even though they were the most evil axis power other than Croatia

[mild musk]

firebombing was desstructive over LONG PERIODS of time

[safe wing]

30 million killed by Japan in WW2

[warped flint]

I am gonna need to micro this front untill I can get the last fortification focus

[mild musk]

it takes a lot of time for firebombing to make up what a nuke does in 50 minutes

[sonic sand]

no shit they were horrible

what did you expect?

[unique crag]

bombing of berlin and dresden? by usa?

[safe wing]

Not even close LMAO

[mild musk]

if japan realized such devastating effects would've kept on happening to their cities week by week this obviously caused them to capitulate

[unique crag]

They wiped a whole town off the map in east germany

[sonic sand]

im not some japanese fanatic who saying that japan should have their empire back

[mild musk]

they realized they were doomed

[safe wing]

And both were military targets too given railhubs

[safe wing]

And Germany in Rotterdam and London

[unique crag]

🤓

[sonic sand]

this is what overkill is

[lapis grove]

hoi4 without dlc's sucks

[sonic sand]

you didn't need to wipe off a city

[unique crag]

cuz they bombed berlin

[sonic sand]

just to get rid of a shipyard

[warped flint]

my aa is doing okay

[mild musk]

we don't talk enough about what the japanese military did to people and soldiers they fought

[sonic sand]

you don't need to kill 40k

to remove a factory

[safe wing]

You really gonna suck the revisionist history cool aid huh

[unique crag]

we dont talk abt the usa having invented a weapon of mass destruction that might be the end of us all in teh future

[mild musk]

for whatever reason modern japan doesnt condone or educate its citizens enough about the atrocitices done by japan

[sick vector]

Wanted to larp a bit and rename russia to Eurasia

[safe wing]

Shut up easterner

[lapis snow]

if you're trying to draw a moral equivalence between japan and the allies in ww2 you need serious psychiatric help

[sick vector]

Is there any console command for that

[sonic sand]

thats racist!

[unique crag]

bro im from the west bruh

[mild musk]

if US didnt invent it soviets would invent it first which could've been far more catastrophic

[safe wing]

Then act like it

[sonic sand]

@ripe slate thats racist

[mild musk]

the nukes were inevitable whether you like it or not

[unique crag]

https://tenor.com/view/murica-merica-america-usa-us-gif-4163007710547964960

[safe wing]

Its not LMAO

[sonic sand]

but it is

[unique crag]

true

[safe wing]

How?

[unique crag]

it is, but i dont mind

[sudden thistle]

Dresden is beautiful ngl

[sonic sand]

but they didn't need to be field tested on 40k innocent civilians!

[unique crag]

the like the enviornment here so i dont mind

[mild musk]

would you rather kill 40k civilians or 500k soldiers to get japan to surrender

[safe wing]

I was quoting Rome total war btw

[lapis snow]

impossibly stupid talking point that has been refuted to death for 80 years. The bomb saved more people than it killed

[safe wing]

Sorry about that anyways

[unique crag]

crash a bomber into hiro's home or sum while he sleeps

[opal nymph]

Did I just join into the debate on the use of atomic weapons

[safe wing]

I just don’t like peoples dumb takes

[unique crag]

yes

[safe wing]

Yes

[lapis snow]

kids with revisionist history moral equivalnce bs

[mild musk]

bro why are people still debating about this, we've interviewed japanese generals/high ranked authorities after ww2 and they said they were absolutely on no verge of surrender and were trying to get away with their land

[unique crag]

peoples perspectives ig

[safe wing]

My great grandfather could have died if the war dragged on for another year

[unique crag]

normal with free speech

[sonic sand]

Then bomb a military base

[opal nymph]

Well, Japan wanted a conditional surrender, but we had this thing called the Potsdam Conference

so unconditional surrender

[mild musk]

japan was a military dictatorship, hirohito had nothing to do and had no real power other than signing the surrender

[opal nymph]

And Japan refused

Until 2 nukes and Manchuria being invaded

[safe wing]

He was in the navy in the pacific

Even if the chances were low

[unique crag]

mine served on eastern front (german)

[safe wing]

Not improbable but still low

[lapis snow]

muppets like you would still moan about the collateral damage of the blast radius. Seriously go and read a book

[sonic sand]

Another thing is that the nukes could've failed to get the Japanese surrender

[opal nymph]

Eh, we already flattened Japan with conventional weapons

[sonic sand]

Then the US has no more nukes

[mild musk]

they wouldn't

[safe wing]

This is the garbage that the pro Russian dumbass Oliver Stone says

[opal nymph]

Rice paper building moment

[safe wing]

And I hate Oliver stone with every inch of my fiber

[sonic sand]

How could someone at the time be so sure?

[unique crag]

i love beef mixed with discussing

[opal nymph]

The will of the Japanese civilians were done with the war with the nukes. The will of the Japanese army was due to Manchuria

[mild musk]

hirohito needed something to make the military generals (the people actually in power) see that japan is absolutely doomed no matter what and had to surrender

remember, hirohito had no power other than being a ceremonial authority that japanese people saw as a divine figure

[sudden thistle]

Wasn’t Hirohito kinda short or am I thinking of a different person

[unique crag]

he a drawf yeah

[sonic sand]

Idc about Russia or whatever i just hate the fact Innocents were murdered for no reason. Nuke a military institution, drop one off the coast of tokyo. Don't kill 40 thousand innocent people to finish off a nation on the brink of surrender.

[mild musk]

I thought you've played hoi4

every hoi4 players KNOWS about hirohito

[sudden thistle]

I googled and it said 5”5 yeah

[sudden thistle]

Not the height 😭

[unique crag]

"Group of officers get hirohito back as leader" event every time

[azure palm]

I puppeted Peru in 1938. I never sent them any Divisions till now. Why the hell is the AI so competent?

[lapis snow]

brink of surrender
training civilians to fight an american invasion with literal spears...

[mild musk]

pov they nuke a military institution
"eh, they don't nuke the urban cities anyway, they're too scared. why does it matter? keep fighting!"

[wind swift]

When my sea lion fails I get so sadge man

[unique crag]

airial domination and land paratroopers in wales

then push to some port and transport units there

[azure palm]

Why do you all do sea lion anyways? Just Build a lot of Heavy Ships and obliterate the Royal Navy until you can just naval invade them through the english channel

[unique crag]

or just focus on africa and soviets

[sonic sand]

Nuke off the coast of tokyo. "That could've been us" "what if they have more?"

[proud tapir]

so like, as democractic germany. Whats better, traditionalist or liberal?

[unique crag]

tradition

[mild musk]

that takes too much time, even a better plan is to take ireland before you start ww2 and you're gonna have an easy time invading uk

[unique crag]

i can do that?

[azure palm]

yeah or that

[azure palm]

yes

[mild musk]

bro no shit, UK doesn't care about ireland lmao

[unique crag]

ireland always takes north in some war between them

[azure palm]

they dont normally guarantee when world tension is under 25%

[unique crag]

for me atleast

[mild musk]

for whatever reason UK goes to war when you take luxembourg but not ireland which is next to their doorstep

[unique crag]

the guarantee everyone in my games

[azure palm]

try justifying early game under 25%

[mild musk]

definitely not ireland, idk i've never seen it personally

[unique crag]

i took yugoslavia, bulgaria, albania and then they declared when belgium joined allies

[azure palm]

or just take them all out until there is no one to guarantee anyone

[safe wing]

Wasn’t the UK going to attack Ireland

[lapis snow]

ah yes, because threats work so well during total war. You can't do escalation management when you've already firebombed the enemy capital to dust and they refuse to give up

[mild musk]

in hoi4?

[fast slate]

[safe wing]

Irl?

[safe wing]

Hey Shyy

[sonic sand]

You can break the spirit of the people

[mild musk]

i'm not sure about irl but ireland did join allies irl if that changes anything

[azure palm]

I hate it, my missiles cant reach canada from france so I need to build better ones

[safe wing]

I thought Churchill had a plan to attack Ireland in 1940

[mild musk]

wait what i've never heard of this lmao

where did you see this

[lapis snow]

you need to read more about the pacific war and Japan at that time. You are applying sensibilities to that situation that are simply inappropriate

[safe wing]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=FLy6GA6-Xhw&si=ILfeuqJioyp58TCb

[unique crag]

how do i xp farm with my divisions quickly yall?

[safe wing]

Spain

[sonic sand]

The Japanese government was warned already. The reason they didn't heed the warning is because they believed that the threat was empty

[unique crag]

but how?

[sonic sand]

All the US needed to do

[azure palm]

spanish civil war

[safe wing]

Bad terrian

[sonic sand]

Was show their threat was legit

[azure palm]

volunteers

[mild musk]

hoi4 wouldn't lie to me, there's no way.

[unique crag]

no skill general and bad terrain?

[safe wing]

I got a level 1 Italian general to 3 in Ethopia

In 2 months

[lapis snow]

bombing two B-tier cities was exactly that. They didn't hit Tokyo/Osaka/Kyoto/Nagoya because it was a warning shot designed to show they were serious. Bombing fisherman would not achieve the same effect

[unique crag]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/990298651291164762/1262731106235449394/attachment-12.gif

[azure palm]

Commiting war crimes in canada!

[mild musk]

this real??

[azure palm]

I hope not... but could be

[safe wing]

Read a book on the subject

[unique crag]

punching babies?

[safe wing]

<@&846894118219022336> not funny

[unique crag]

my bad

[safe wing]

No the pacific war

[unique crag]

my grandma has like 20 books on ww2 in her shelf

[safe wing]

And how many on Europe compared to the pacific

[unique crag]

i dunno. she has one about churchill, one about franklin, hirohito maybe one and a two about stalin

[heavy vigil]

and japanese people saw hirohito as akin to jesus and were willing to die for him with much less "modern" scientific/materialistic beliefs

[mild musk]

i love servers that permit embed and gif perms for everyone

[unique crag]

she also has mad treasure from back then

[safe wing]

Hirohito doesn’t really represent Japan that well

Like Tojo is a better one to read about

[unique crag]

thats what the book is about

[safe wing]

Given how he was military dictator from 1939-1944

[mild musk]

the japanese knew about jesus?

[safe wing]

They did since the 1400s

[azure palm]

I swear to god if those canadian divisions keep defending british islands, ill drop a thermo nuclear bomb on ontario

[lapis snow]

troll question?

[unique crag]

its a comparison

[heavy vigil]

akin as in equal to

[heavy vigil]

dont be mean, english is not everyone's first language

[broken sky]

The fascination and reverence the common folk had for the Emperor was incredibly resolute to the point of scary.

It was similar to how serfs viewed the Russian emperor at their time: a man placed on the seat by God.

[unique crag]

i get bullied for being good at english

[safe wing]

Killing him was the dumbest thing they could do

[lapis snow]

not intended, I mean it's genuinely quite an important part of japanese history that they did find out about jesus and then the christians were purged

[broken sky]

It is the reason why earlier revolutions in Russia did not, and could not work: the subjects were incredibly loyal to their monarch.

[azure palm]

what country?

[unique crag]

germany

school is filled with unintellectuals

mostly jealousy involved in that

[hallow orchid]

la resistance is gonna be free soon enough right

[azure palm]

Then theyre idiots. Everyone in germany and austria who doesnt speak english should just stay in elementary school

[safe wing]

In about a year

[heavy vigil]

ofc

[hallow orchid]

yeah i can wait that

[broken sky]

Japan is pissed against Christians because of the Portugal(?) supporting an uprising (which had nothing to do with Christianity) that had a significant major Christian population, and thus, pieced their own puzzle?

[safe wing]

They seem to make 1 - 3 dlcs free per year starting last year

[lapis snow]

in the middle of the civil war which was already bad enough, yes

[mild musk]

I don't know much about japanese history and culture to be honest, I thought they saw hirohito as the one and only divine figure and they had no idea about anything else as they were isolated for a long time before

[broken sky]

Funnily enough, only the Dutch was allowed to trade

[safe wing]

Fair

[broken sky]

🗣️

The Dutch

[lapis snow]

ah ok then. Yeah they isolated in part due to their experience with europeans bringing christianity to japan during their civil war period

[heavy vigil]

i really wanna go mass mob to save xp but which doctrine chat

[broken sky]

What country are you playing

[azure palm]

What nation?

[slender kernel]

superior firepower best forever

[slender kernel]

tf is that

[unique crag]

i wanna say smth but ill get muted

[sudden thistle]

An island

[broken sky]

I have not played much HOI4 to know what I'm looking at

[sudden thistle]

Do uhhh

Mobile warfare

[azure palm]

Some island. But wich one...

[sudden thistle]

But no desperate defense

[mild musk]

ooh so the isolation was all due to Jesus and christianity

very interesting

[heavy vigil]

no

[lapis snow]

not entirely

[mild musk]

we all know what you want to say

[sonic sand]

B-tier cities... you're saying that because they were small it was a warning shot? Killing 60 thousand people doesn't seem like a warning shot

[heavy vigil]

low manpower nation

[azure palm]

Id say go mass mob

[lapis snow]

in ww2, yeah

[unique crag]

say the first two letters. or just one

[sonic sand]

60 thousand civilians

is a warning shot

[mild musk]

it should start with an N, no?

[unique crag]

i was thinking P

[mild musk]

60k is like a drop of water in an ocean for ww2

[broken sky]

Yeah... that is a warning shot compared to the Tokyo firebombing

[mild musk]

what is that lmao

[broken sky]

Otherwise, the alternative is worse: Operation Downfall

[lapis snow]

small potatoes for that conflict, and for a country that populous which had committed far worse in china and east asia by conventional means already 100x over

[broken sky]

and

[unique crag]

flags shape

is like

[broken sky]

Hokkaido Offensive Operation (Stalin)

[unique crag]

a

[opal nymph]

Chak's Law: Any discussion of WW2 that lasts more than 5 minutes quickly results in a Rule 2 break

[azure palm]

Should I nuke Brazil?

[mild musk]

aw hell naw

[broken sky]

I think that's a bit rude

[safe wing]

Why do you want too

[azure palm]

In hoi4

[broken sky]

Okay go for it

[azure palm]

They keep stopping my naval invasions

[opal nymph]

Even when I unlock nukes, I don't really have a need or use for them

[safe wing]

Fair

[unique crag]

https://tenor.com/view/flightreacts-flight-reacts-flight-reacts-animation-meme-gif-16101909621082898637

[mild musk]

you just saved millions of brazilians, what a hero

[opal nymph]

Take em out

[azure palm]

Ok

[opal nymph]

They are resisting and you need a landing

Note, nuking the port will screw you over with no supply

[mild musk]

#server-rules

[azure palm]

Is commiting war crimes in hoi4 against the server rules?

[dusky burrow]

You'll get sent to the Hague

[mild musk]

no lol i just couldn't find the channel

[azure palm]

ahhh

[mild musk]

i made a shortcut for access

[azure palm]

that youll never find again

[heavy vigil]

no

[azure palm]

Great

[mild musk]

is there a reason why civilians in states don't die when you drop a nuke

[safe wing]

Ingame right?

[unique crag]

basements

[dusky burrow]

No

[azure palm]

Not that bad

[lapis snow]

same reason PoWs aren't a thing in-game. Pdx don't want to be explicit about that stuff

[azure palm]

They are all immune to explosions and nuclear weapons

[lapis snow]

the german content would be much edgier if they did

[mild musk]

aah i see how it is

[unique crag]

brutal oppression icon?

[mild musk]

fridges too, if you get in a fridge during a nuclear explosion you survive

[azure palm]

yeah that would be problematic. Like getting a event "Die Juden Frage" or something.

[heavy vigil]

baba did you see the japan buffs in the air tree btw

[unique crag]

https://tenor.com/view/yes-indiana-jones-hero-teeth-gif-25640342

[heavy vigil]

they get a lottt of air breakthrough progress

[mild musk]

elite ball knowledge

[lapis snow]

yes, nu-japan will be pretty busted

[safe wing]

Reminds me cod 2 punished you if you did warcrimes

[heavy vigil]

they start with 3 tech slots tho

so idk how youd do air tech

[lapis snow]

or having the Wahnsee conference if you have Heydrich hired and chose Himmler for the inner circle...