ask-for-help-here

[gusty egret]

You can sort of treat the AI as doing a light attack DD spam build if you're playing as Germany.

[wind lotus]

So i should aim for a balanced fleet with the three types of ships?

[wind lotus]

Ah

[gusty egret]

Since the starting navy for the US and UK is very heavy on multipurpose DDs that lean more on light attack than on torpedos.

[gusty egret]

No.

[glacial steeple]

no because its too late in the game so your gun line is cooked

[wintry rover]

So I auto lost already?

[glacial steeple]

well not lost

but assuming youre not great, its significantly harder yes

[wintry rover]

wait what focus tree is the normal one

[glacial steeple]

fascist

[gusty egret]

Purge Kodoha is historical.

[wintry rover]

I supported kodoha

oh

[gusty egret]

But it's also somewhat weaker than Showa Restoration.

[wintry rover]

I wanna do historical so I am gonna restart

also what should my prewar constuction look like

[glacial steeple]

you have to understand that japan as a modernizing power is poor

[wintry rover]

do I need civs or infustructure first?

[glacial steeple]

land facility then mils

[wind lotus]

Aight

[glacial steeple]

you get your civs from capping china

[wind lotus]

I think i understood tho

[wintry rover]

ok

this right

what divisions do I train?

[surreal merlin]

is it enough to attack ussr

[wintry rover]

so many divisions in one tile you need to push out of that but once you get to siberia there shouldnt be supply issues so yes

[surreal merlin]

which tile

[wintry rover]

the one next to ukraine the divisions need to spread out or supply issues are gonna be really bad

[surreal merlin]

oh ok

[livid beacon]

@surreal merlin

Heavy ship 690 dominance or light cruiser

[surreal merlin]

idk i cant comprehend navy

[wet crater]

Still not overly required apparently

[livid beacon]

Stu

[wet crater]

Turns out full marine block up to I think what should be 36 width and 34 width infantry from large unit tactics and full marines doctrine

Plus full air is more than enough

[surreal merlin]

stu?

[wet crater]

Japan starts with a template for that, for, some reason?

I cant say I used it at all but its, there

[wintry rover]

is this good

[wet crater]

Why?

But it has like no org

[wintry rover]

I used it in one of my american playthroughs

I mass produced it and it preformed way better than I thought it would cause it was originally a joke

[gusty egret]

?

[wintry rover]

also talking about my japan playthrough should I research juggle>

[gusty egret]

Don't worry, neither can the AI.

[gusty egret]

No.

[wet crater]

Honestly, I was just playing japan

Rush your research slots

[wintry rover]

ok

[wet crater]

They are well worth it

[gusty egret]

The AI is extremely bad at playing the game, so even joke builds can perform well against them.

[wet crater]

I am not sure what to say as to what to research

[wintry rover]

which tree is the slots

[wet crater]

But more slots cant really hurt

[gusty egret]

Industry techs, gun techs.

[wet crater]

Showa research institute. fascist political tree

And rikken institute

After one of the Zaibatsu focuses

[wet crater]

Yeah thats what I did

I just wasnt sure if I won via fluke, because its china

The focus to get the 1940 air frame early also helps

A lot

Since it knocks off a year of ahead of time penality

So you can start producing it faster, after modifying the template the game spits out to suck less

[north jetty]

hey quick question i just got done with the german civil war but i cant get my democracy support up enough, there is no democractic advisors i can use and no focus i know of\

[wet crater]

But I finally defeated britain

[wintry rover]

is the propoganda dpt op

I just looked and it says 2 off map civs

thats like really good?

[wet crater]

Thats, it?

[wintry rover]

wait but how big is the chance for them to accept it

[wet crater]

2 civs?

Thats not op but its not so bad

[wintry rover]

25 polital power but idk if theyll accept it

is it worth the risk?

[wet crater]

Oh

Yeah I did not understand that

Gonna be honest I didnt bother with that

[wintry rover]

2 civs might really help my economy

[wet crater]

Found it easier to just puppet chang kai sheks china with resource rights and war reps

[wet crater]

It gets better

The first part of the game as fascist japan is just get militarally strong early

Dunk on china

And that gets you more mils and civs to work with

[wintry rover]

but are the 2 civs to greatly help build mils worth it

[wet crater]

After china you build up for like 3 years

Then go to war in east asia after you get indochina and siam

Its quite doable to conquer india with 3 armies

[surreal merlin]

what do i do i think im losing

[wintry rover]

I need to beat china first

[wet crater]

Yes

China has to go down pretty early

[wintry rover]

thats the problem cus im not good at the game

[wet crater]

They dont have guns

Hell you dont even change your templates

[wintry rover]

the templates arent that bad but they arent the best

[wet crater]

What I did that works is train 22 chuton chi shidan at game start and force deploy

[wintry rover]

just they have too much infantry

[wet crater]

No template changing

Of anything

[wintry rover]

the cheap divs

[wet crater]

Of all the divs

Hell I normally just use full infantry up to 36 width

[wintry rover]

how does this work

[glacial steeple]

i know

its historical

[wet crater]

They actually used bicycle infantry?

[wet crater]

Basically your 20k guns short

[glacial steeple]

japan experimented with a lot while modernizing

[wintry rover]

im doing dispersed too so i get a less of a debuff for my guns

im in august

[glacial steeple]

conc is so much better

[wet crater]

I went concentrated

[glacial steeple]

but its fine

[wintry rover]

when do I go to war with them

[glacial steeple]

you do focuses to rush it

so its like early 37

[wet crater]

After the kodoha faction purge it starts a timer

[wintry rover]

what focuses

name them out

[wet crater]

And you reinforce the east hebei garrison to take a year off it

Thats litterally the name of it

Under revisit the 21 demands

[wintry rover]

kwantung?

[wet crater]

Yes

Its the kwantung army timer

Also, drill the whole army

And the navy till the fuel situation forces you to dock it

[wintry rover]

revisit the 21 demands?

[wet crater]

Yep

[wintry rover]

one step ahead

[wet crater]

That also lets you get menjiang as a puppet from form mongol military government

[wintry rover]

Ive been since january

[glacial steeple]

save fuel by shift click training navy

[wet crater]

Promote tojo to marshal

The other guy gains less leader exp

[wet crater]

Thats an option?

I didnt know that

Thank you

[wet crater]

Army wise, I organized it like this

Pull the hohei shidan units into one army with enough of the colonial garrison units to hit 24

[wintry rover]

colonial garrison?

[wet crater]

Those guys go to korea, along with all motorized, cav and tanks

[wet crater]

the Chuton shi shidan

[glacial steeple]

you keep the motorized?

its good to disbannd/make hohei shidan so you can motorize supply for free imo

[wet crater]

I found the motorized movement speed helped a lot

Mostly with that first thrust out from around shanghai

[wintry rover]

I restarted my run

so no

[wet crater]

Post war I dont keep it

[glacial steeple]

they do move yes

but it loses so much MIC that i usually would rather keep it for supplies

[wet crater]

Afterwards I just converted everything to hohei shidan and modified the template to have 34 width with large unit tactics fully mastered

[wet crater]

MIC?

[glacial steeple]

military (factory) economic capacity

CIC is civ DIC is dockyard ic

[wet crater]

I should have understood that faster

Yeah I see the general point there

I also just kept all the tanks

But stopped producing tanks

Again they only get to stay for that first war

[wintry rover]

this stuff youre saying is confusing

[glacial steeple]

i keep 2

1 is untrained and not fully equipped

[north jetty]

graphics mod?

[glacial steeple]

it gives you some stockpile for the other 2

[wet crater]

Yeah that I did take note of, not me going nuts

[surreal merlin]

what about it

[wet crater]

Theres also an element of its china

[glacial steeple]

well it was directed at comunista :> you dont have to necessarily understand IC but its just the economy used on any given unit/action

[north jetty]

whats the mod?

[wet crater]

Yeah that makes sense

[surreal merlin]

1984 map style

[north jetty]

Danke

[surreal merlin]

yw

[wet crater]

Even if I am not playing perfectly by any means, its china, they dont have guns just dunk on them

Once you stop forgetting to move the chuton divs you trained to the front

[glacial steeple]

when learning japan the only hard part is doing stuff like collabs, capping china in correct times

[wet crater]

I am 100% not playing optimally in every way by any means

[glacial steeple]

but casually learning it you can take longer/do things differently

[vocal jewel]

Hellow

[wet crater]

Ironically I capped china early

I capped them by august 1937

Spanish civil war and the sinkiang war was still going

So I didnt get that clique in the peace

[vocal jewel]

How they just spawning 120 Divisions 😭

[wet crater]

Run them over

Also naval invading helps

A lot

[vocal jewel]

But how(im new)

[wet crater]

No this isnt a joke

It makes it a lot more possible

[vocal jewel]

Where should i di that?

Qingdau?

[wet crater]

If you look up a little bit we were talking about exactly that

[wet crater]

I personally used shianghai, and the province above it

[wintry rover]

so i invade in 37?

[wet crater]

Qingdao you hit as you cap hebei chahar and shangdong

[vocal jewel]

Did you use templats?

[wet crater]

Just the default ones

[vocal jewel]

Huh

[wet crater]

You invade when the kwantung timer runs out

Which yes should be in early 37

[wintry rover]

my frontline aint looking so well rn

its fine ill wing it

[vocal jewel]

How many Divisions do you use ?

[glacial steeple]

you dont even get xp to change them but if you do adding line arty to hohei shidan/making it paratroopers is good

like if its modded

[wet crater]

Yeah checks out

[glacial steeple]

you train maybe 30 max extra of the colonial div

[wet crater]

Logistical focus from drilling a ton also helps

[glacial steeple]

i keep forgetting the name

[wet crater]

I found 22 seems to work

[vocal jewel]

My friends tell me thats not good to train them, i need the resources

How did my grandpa push them so hard....

[wintry rover]

I dont like this too well

[wet crater]

China also has not got guns, and you have the luxury of air power and applying pressure where you want via naval invasion

[gusty egret]

I use "NIC" for "naval IC", as a way of describing what each IC type is used for.

[wet crater]

You kinda need to make the front wide asap

[gusty egret]

"CIC" = civilian/construction IC, "MIC" = military IC, "NIC" = naval IC.

[wintry rover]

what do i do with my ships

stike patrol or convoy

[gusty egret]

Give yourself shore.

Shore bombardment is very helpful for winning fights along the coast.

[wet crater]

I simply split all destroyers and battleships off and used them to project in the yellow sea for the invasion

[vocal jewel]

I need to learn Air and Navy but is that fr that hard to learn ?

My friends saying that they have 6000 hours game time but they cant even use them right

[gusty egret]

You can give up to -33% stats to the enemy side with shore bombardment.

[wintry rover]

air and navy isnt that hard

[wet crater]

Gonna be honest I still dont fully get naval stuff

[wet crater]

Nice

[vocal jewel]

Damn

[wet crater]

Is that from holding in the area?

[gusty egret]

Different parts of it are harder than others.

[wet crater]

The shore bombardment I mean

[vocal jewel]

Like what?

[gusty egret]

No, it's from having ships located in the sea tile(s) next to where the land battle is happening.

If you put ships on Naval Invasion Support, they'll try to automatically position themselves properly.

But you can also just position the fleets manually.

[wet crater]

Like if I am invading britain, and have the fleet patroling in the channel and hit dover, I am getting shore?

[glacial steeple]

yeah but DIC is like saying dick so its better to use

[wet crater]

Because that seems around like what your saying

[gusty egret]

Air macro is generally quite straightforward. There's a very clear "best design" to use for air stuff, and it's easy to tell what sorts of macro decisions are better with air. Microing air though can be much harder, because you have to worry about things like air base supply, fuel status, air wing training, air wings being intercepted in transit, and more.

[wet crater]

And dont forget

[wintry rover]

chinese united pact formed is that bad

[wet crater]

Having to move the air

[gusty egret]

No.

[vocal jewel]

Damn

[wet crater]

Eh, not really? they do that every game

[gusty egret]

The ships have to be in a specific spot right next to where the battle is happening.

And if they are on Naval Invasion Support, they will try to position themselves automatically.

[wet crater]

You only really need the china with chang kai shek as leader to capitulate for all chinese united front members to surrender

[wet crater]

Oh its a little more particular

Got it

[glacial steeple]

not really

its just moving them into the correct naval tile

[gusty egret]

Shore fleets are one of the five navy workable surface navy metas I mentioned earlier.

[glacial steeple]

instead of zone

[gusty egret]

Maximizing the amount of shore bombardment you can put out with your surface navy at minimum cost is a viable build strategy.

[wet crater]

Oh thats what the littleler boxes on the sea do

I thought it was a visual element to simulate cartography

I didnt really get that it actually does something

[glacial steeple]

you can micro move fleets if you want

[wet crater]

Now it will soon be time to invade the USA

I have like

5 armies in canada

It will be painful

[wintry rover]

here it goes

[wet crater]

But I thing I can win

[wintry rover]

wish me luck

I didnt see this

im so cooked

[wet crater]

Yeah...

Did you not puppet menjiang via focus?

[glacial steeple]

brother the attrition

[wet crater]

That too

[surreal merlin]

i just lost again, i dont even know what im doing wrong

[glacial steeple]

thats fine, topazand does that

[surreal merlin]

this game is so uncomprehensible

[wintry rover]

I have so many units in the tile

I was transporting them

[wet crater]

topazand?

[glacial steeple]

player

plays video game

[wet crater]

I know

Never seen the word topazand

Ever

God

I forgot about the supply

In canada

Being terrible

I built rails already but it doesnt seem to be working

[wintry rover]

so what do I do

[wet crater]

And some supply hubs

[wintry rover]

about that

[glacial steeple]

yeah you dont have hubs

supply doesnt come from rails

[glacial steeple]

spread units out

[gusty egret]

Yeah, tell me about it...

[wintry rover]

theyre gonna get so much landf

[wet crater]

Dont worry

I whacked some of those down

[gusty egret]

Not even the developers know how their game works at this point.

Has resulted in all sorts of questionable decisions with the most recent set of patches especially.

[wet crater]

Still isnt totally working

[glacial steeple]

i feel like that used to be better

[surreal merlin]

yeah i genuinely dont know what im doing wrong, and if i do realise its always too late and i cant fix it

[gusty egret]

Sure. But that was a long time ago. Like, the people who designed the naval combat rework for MtG were absolutely no longer present when PDS started updating sub detection and visibility values in Götterdämmerung.

[lime citrus]

Anyone want to help me further delve further into HOI4? I'd like to join a VC and have someone else hop in to help me.

[gusty egret]

It'd be funny if it weren't so sad.

And now it's gotten especially bad because they rely so heavily on AI observer games to double-check their work.

[wintry rover]

why wouldnt anyone tell me that would happen

[gusty egret]

Which means a lot of problems go undetected because the AI is really bad at playing the game.

[wintry rover]

do I do it

[lime citrus]

Dang. What happened to China?

[wintry rover]

they cooked me

[glacial steeple]

you dont have the industry or xp for this and even then it wont work

because it wont fit into combat

[wintry rover]

i can fit 3 in a tile

usually

[glacial steeple]

https://youtu.be/1IIjk4bAh68

watch this

[glacial steeple]

yes but not in combat

[lime citrus]

Well, anyone want to help a new player?

VC?

[glacial steeple]

imo a large part of this is the dev team not planning/preparing hoi4 for long term development in the initial like 5 years so info just got lost/misconstrued to new people/forgotten about

[gusty egret]

It's part of the whole technical debt problem.

The team's never actually given enough time, resources, and/or manpower to fix things up properly, so the technical debt keeps piling up.

[wintry rover]

yes I looked into the advanced combat details and 3 were in combat at once

[gusty egret]

And now we're at a point where the technical debt situation is so bad that even your more casual players are noticing.

[wintry rover]

the battles usually last 12 ingame hours and I win

[glacial steeple]

yeah and this is very difficult to fix in general

[gusty egret]

It's easy to fix, just give them more time and resources to fix it.

Stellaris literally figured it out in 2020, it's why the Custodian Initiative has generally been very well-received.

[glacial steeple]

well, its not easy because developing is hard with official releases, but i do think they just need to take a year without major updates

[gusty egret]

Stellaris' Custodian Initiative works like this: the core Stellaris team is split into two groups. One works on new updates for new content, the other (the Custodians) focus on fixing up the game's existing systems that seem to not be working as well as intended.

[glacial steeple]

i cant really talk to the devs as mods arent affiliated but id def bring it up if i got a good chance for it

[gusty egret]

I'm pretty sure people have brought it up before.

[glacial steeple]

its a different circle and its hard to get things to actually change in any company really

[gusty egret]

But this is also about management decisions.

Even if the people closer to the code know it's a good idea to deal with technical debt, if management thinks it's not profitable, then it's not going to get done.

[glacial steeple]

yeah :(

i think itd be healthy for hoi long term to seriously address issues as this does seem to be turning into a long term development game

or already has

[wintry rover]

what am i doing wrong

[gusty egret]

You see the little red box with an exclamation mark next to your units?

That means your units are critically out of supply.

Which can reduce their stats by a lot.

[wintry rover]

im building hubs and railroads

[gusty egret]

Orange box means they are missing supply, but not to a level where it would tank your stats.

[gusty egret]

The way supply works is that it spreads from hubs based on terrain and motorization level.

If you've got a lot of rough terrain (which you would in that part of the world), unmotorized supply is not going to spread that far.

[harsh bane]

Is it possible to learn the game?

[gusty egret]

Yes.

[surreal merlin]

No

[wintry rover]

no

[oak jasper]

No. You must spontaneously appear with the knowledge, for this game is far too complex for mortals to actually learn.

[wintry rover]

navy easiest bt

[surreal merlin]

I have 7200 hours and I still don't know how to play ts

[harsh bane]

I came here after around a 1000 hours of stellaris and I have quite the hang of stellaris

[glacial steeple]

hoi4 is not beginner friendly or easy to learn from just playing

a lot of it is just reading/theory which kind of sucks

[wintry rover]

someone please coach me through this war

I cant

[glacial steeple]

the videos and resources in the pinned messages of this chat are a start

[glacial steeple]

i could stream a game sometime beating china ?

[wintry rover]

im in a very peculiar situation

I dont know what to do

[lime citrus]

I do better with someone telling me directly in real time where to do, what is where, etc.

[gusty egret]

At least the game doesn't change super-dramatically between major versions.

[wintry rover]

what am I doing wrong here

[glacial steeple]

what nation do you usually play ?

[wintry rover]

you can see everything

[gusty egret]

Compared to Stellaris, where like every 2 years, the game is almost unrecognizable compared to where it was 2 years ago.

[lime citrus]

I am VERY green. Right now, I'm playing Italy via the tutorial, but I hope to one day play the U.S.A.

[gusty egret]

I still generally recommend playing historical Canada if you just want to figure out how different subsystems work.

Just decide ahead of time what subsystem you want to explore and build towards that as Canada.

[wintry rover]

can someone call me and help me with this war ill stream it

[glacial steeple]

the US is probably easier to learn than italy

[oak jasper]

My own question: what is the anatomy of a roach destroyer? I've been accustomed to building rather expensive fleet destroyers (plus specialized ASW destroyers), but suddenly I find myself needing a lot of tin cans, fast.

My current thought: the bulk are just 2x torp launcher (or do I fill completely on torps?), cheapest gun, token AA, possibly mixing in some which also have sonar+depth charges.

[lime citrus]

Well, Italy was what the game gave me for the tutorial, so I'll have to stick with it if only to at least learn the basics of the game.

[gusty egret]

The US has fiddly election mechanics.

[lime citrus]

Really?

[gusty egret]

Which is... not great.

[wintry rover]

italy 10000 times easier than usa

[glacial steeple]

i mean italy is quite hard for a new player you have to know combat from day 1

[oak jasper]

I will say I learned primarily on the US, mostly because my brother plays US a lot.

[glacial steeple]

and not mess up your eco

[lime citrus]

That makes sense.

So... anyone want to help?

[gusty egret]

A roach destroyer is a roach destroyer. Its only purpose is to act as a meat shield, so you only put stuff on it that helps it act that way and nothing else.

[glacial steeple]

why would you need them is the bigger question

[wintry rover]

im gonna lose this so bad

[gusty egret]

Anything extra you add is at best wasted production and at worst actively makes the roach DD worse at doing its one job because e.g. it might lower its speed, and speed contributes to a ship's ability to dodge attacks.

[glacial steeple]

thats how it goes

the china war is early and easy to practice

its much like most of hoi4, initially hard to understand

[wintry rover]

this is like a turkey playthrough except youre on an island

[gusty egret]

When you think about ship designs and plane designs and the like, what you want to do is firmly establish what the design is supposed to do first instead of coming up with a design and trying to justify its use case afterwards.

[wintry rover]

im not brand new to the game

omg

[oak jasper]

My thought is "first, get the 4:1 screening ratio, second, launch torpedoes, third, add some ASW capability to the fleet, and a lot of the stuff I'd usually added like radars may be historically accurate, but this time I need something fast".

I suppose the most critical question is: how many torpedoes to add?

[gusty egret]

Multiroles are generally bad in HoI4.

That applies especially to planes, but also often to ships as well. Make the thing do one thing well.

Also, don't bother with ship-based ASW until you're more familiar with how navy works.

The very short version is it doesn't really work.

Or at least, the way it works is very counterintuitive, and if you're worried about submarines, it's far easier, cheaper, and straightforward to use naval bombers instead.

[lime citrus]

Even if I don't get much done today, there is something I want to know.

Someone told me the diplomacy feature in this game is bare bones. Is that true?

[gusty egret]

Pretty much.

[lime citrus]

...why?

[oak jasper]

I've had a fair deal of success with 4-destroyer fleets (specialized ASW boats), set to patrol, always-engage, set to only engage subs? Maybe best to just throw a handful of those ASW destroyer designs into the fleet.

I suspect subs are not a huge threat to the fleet itself, but I'd had issues with "if I don't set the big navy to engage submarines, they refuse any engagement with even a single sub involved", so I figure there should be at least a few depth charges.

[gusty egret]

It was more complicated in earlier HoI games, but it was one of the many systems that the developers axed for HoI4 to make the game more approachable, and it never really got a full-fledged replacement like a bunch of other things the developers axed from the earlier HoI games.

[gusty egret]

That's because the AI is very bad at fielding submarines.

[oak jasper]

... that too.

[gusty egret]

There are a few very basic things you should do when fielding submarines, and those very basic things make your submarines sort of immune to damage from surface ships, even ones specialized for ASW.

[lime citrus]

That's dumb. "To make the game more approachable"? It's tough enough to get the hang of as is, why not just make the diplomacy more elaborate and/or rewarding?

[gusty egret]

Which is how you get very silly screenshots like someone killing the entire Royal Navy with six submarines.

[glacial steeple]

more like replacing them

if you do a sub build you can replace those losses far easier/cheaper than the asw destroyers can hunt them effectively

[lime citrus]

It's even worse since 4 is not pay-to-win/play, either, unlike 99% of other games like it.

[gusty egret]

It also doesn't prioritize torpedo reveal chance reductions, since torpedo reveals are the only real way submarines reveal themselves in combat when they engage first.

[glacial steeple]

hoi3 had about 100x less players but to this day is more complex

at the end of its development it had maybe 100-200 players daily iirc

[gusty egret]

HoI4 is massively more popular and well-known compared to HoI3, and that approachability thing is a big part of it.

[lime citrus]

I get that, but if you're making a game where players lead a nation, a nation has to have allies, right? I don't think I want to play a game that makes the player's chosen country be put in a Germany in 1945 scenario because the diplomacy is insufficient by default.

[gusty egret]

Like, think about how hard learning how to play HoI4 is. HoI3 is easily ten times harder than that.

And the diplomacy game is a big part of why.

[lime citrus]

I'll take your word for it.

[lime citrus]

Ok, how did it work in 3?

[gusty egret]

Since the diplomacy game is incredibly important in the pre-war buildup in those games, but it's also very difficult to figure out how to properly do it.

[gusty egret]

3 had a giant list of actions you could take with various nations, and taking a lot of those actions would cost Leadership, a shared resource that you'd also have to allocate between research, spying, and recruiting officers for your divisions.

[lime citrus]

Were there any redundant features from the one from 3 they could have removed without making the diplomacy feature in 4 too weak?

[glacial steeple]

no, you have to understand hoi4 on release was meant to be approachable and barebones

[lime citrus]

Sounds realistic enough, though I guess I can see how players found it too much.

[gusty egret]

Instead of World Tension, every country in 3 has a Neutrality stat, 3 different influence stats matching the 3 major factions, and a Threat stat that tracked how threatening other nations were to it.

[glacial steeple]

now its becoming more complex so its weird where you have to learn more, reducing approachability, but it cant be too difficult

i think the simplicity of diplomacy is a thing most people like

[lime citrus]

Let me get this straight: HOI4, as hard to learn as it is, is child's play compared to 3?

[glacial steeple]

being able to easily do actions such as wars

[glacial steeple]

its a lot simpler

[gusty egret]

So e.g. a big part of Germany's diplomacy game in 3 is about lowering your Neutrality ASAP, trying to keep the US's neutrality high for as long as possible, and trying to make the Soviet Union have higher Threat to Allied majors than you so that they focus on trying to contain the Soviets instead of ganging up on you.

[lime citrus]

Perhaps. But if you're going to war, it's always a good idea to have allies.

[gusty egret]

But then it's way, way less obvious what you're supposed to do as, say, France or Spain or Italy.

[lime citrus]

Ok, that sounds reasonable.

[gusty egret]

And how much Leadership you should allocate to your efforts, since every Leadership you give to diplo spending is Leadership that you aren't using to research key techs, get your Unity up (3's version of Stability), and/or recruit enough officers to keep your new divisions operating without penalties.

[mild widget]

does anyone have suggestions for good youtubers to watch im kinda new to the game :3

[gusty egret]

It depends on what you're interested in.

[mild widget]

who are some you find cool

[lime citrus]

Hmm.

[gusty egret]

I mainly play in very tryhard multiplayer games, so the ones I find interesting or useful are the types of people also focused on those games.

[lime citrus]

There's TheCyclop and Wild_Vision, to name a couple.

[mild widget]

ty !!

[lime citrus]

Np.

[gusty egret]

World Tension is also similarly a heavily simplified version of the neutrality and threat mechanics from 3 and the belligerence and Isolation vs. Intervension slider mechanics from 2.

[lime citrus]

In any case, again, VC chat with me, anyone?

[lime citrus]

I see.

[mild widget]

i would but my microphone is broken 😭

[tepid umbra]

I like aldrahill

He got me back into hoi4 after a 2 year break

And he is how i learned most of the basics

[mild widget]

Oooh okayy I've never heard of him

[gusty egret]

Also, mandatory mention of this meme from HoI3 about how you are supposed to set up your order of battle (field marshals, generals, but also junior officers below generals) and the cancer that often results on fronts like Barbarossa.

Like, your order of battle is going to look like this the day before WW2 starts and then like that about a month in.

[lime citrus]

..ok, I get why they needed to simplify so many things.

Still, doesn't mean they should make something as important as diplomacy so miniscule.

[gusty egret]

They cut away a lot in the initial HoI4 release version.

Like, puppet mechanics weren't a thing. Fuel wasn't a thing. Railroads, supply hubs, and the entire complicated supply system wasn't a thing. Doctrines were just technologies you'd research with research slots.

War support and stability were just a single stat called Unity.

[lime citrus]

Huh.

[gusty egret]

Spies and spying were completely gone until the La Resistance DLC that released 4 years after launch.

[tepid umbra]

puppet mechanics were in a dlc too iirc

just the dlc is free now

[gusty egret]

Yeah, puppet mechanics were added in Together for Victory, which was the first major DLC for the game.

[lime citrus]

Puppet mechanics?

[gusty egret]

Autonomy, different levels of puppets, the ability to break free as a puppet from your overlord.

[lime citrus]

I see.

[gusty egret]

The designers obviously weren't a thing until various DLCs added them.

MIOs weren't a thing until Arms Against Tyranny, which was a relatively recent DLC.

The entire navy combat system was basically a fancier version of Victoria 2's ship-to-ship combat on launch.

[lime citrus]

Hmm.

[gusty egret]

Lend-lease wasn't in the game upon release IIRC.

[lime citrus]

...wow.

[gusty egret]

Ah, wait, it was, but it was a lot more barebones.

[lime citrus]

Oh, well, that makes sense.

[glacial steeple]

yeah thats TfV or LaR

i think

[gusty egret]

TfV was what expanded it.

So that you could actually see what stuff people lacked and also request lend-leases instead of just sending them.

[glacial steeple]

theres a bug actually

you cant lend lease things you havent bought/captured/produced

so like starting foreign equipment

[gusty egret]

Sort of.

You can re-lend lease stuff someone else has sent you via lend lease, though you cannot send it back to its original owner.

But if you got equipment through a focus or by starting with it, you usually can't.

Supposedly, there's a workaround involving licenses that does let you send that equipment as well, but I was unable to reproduce it with my limited testing.

[harsh bane]

I have 1000 hours in stellaris and this seams like a very steep learning curve

[glacial steeple]

yeah

[fierce idol]

i have 1600 hours in stellaris, you'll get there eventually

[harsh bane]

Do I need a special gem to learn the game?

[fierce idol]

just ignore half the menus

simple

you construct civilian factories to build up for the first year or so, then spam military factories

and research industry

[tepid umbra]

don't do that

most of the menus are important

[fierce idol]

but i dont wanna deal with navyyyyyy

(cries)

[wet crater]

As japan, is it better for my industry and manpower to puppet the USA or full annex them

I am dunking on them big time, 200k to 2.1 million kd in my favor

[wild rune]

No you need to be special to learn it

[glacial steeple]

do you really want the US to exist

ideally youd have full collabs, and puppet if not, but yk

[wet crater]

Also why did a random bengali entity pop out of nowhere and attack me

Its also communist

For some reason

[glacial steeple]

indian famine

resistance target

[wet crater]

Ah

That checks out

Guess I just kill it

It litterally cant do anything since its only bordered by my puppets

That I didnt call in yet

390k to 3m

Jeez

[glacial steeple]

casualties?

[wet crater]

Yes

In my favor

I am now trying to work out how to fight, the axis

But germany conquered the soviet union

Currently vichy, germany, and italy are the axis majors

I have britain and egpyt

Can I launch naval invasions from those without calling them in?

If so my job is much easier

I have all my islands garrisoned already

Using two full area defense armies of puppet divs

Just, a lot of puppet divs

Its also getting kinda laggy

[glacial steeple]

check this out

[harsh bane]

I can win the biggest war in Stellaris but whenever I try to invade Ethiopia my progress grinds to a halt

[wet crater]

Nice

So uh

How do I cap that

The USA and soviets are dead

Its just the western fascist euro countries really left

And germany is like, my level strong

In terms of industry, doesnt mean the ai knows how to leverage that

[harsh bane]

How did this even happen

Was historical AI turned off?

[wet crater]

Its because I killed britain early I think

Britain isnt actually fighting them, I puppeted that

And took the fleet

I also capped the USA

And dont ask why india looks, like that

[harsh bane]

Wow you have a lot of armies

[wet crater]

Half of that is puppet units

Its really annoying

The subjects give you the units they produce with bad ai templates

And I cant get rid of them so they create lag

[harsh bane]

Did you use the special potion to learn this game

[wet crater]

No, just brute force

And even then I still dont know everything

[glacial steeple]

no

it took them until the 80s to get nuclear missiles in my game and they wont load their rocket sites with them

late game ai has reasonable ground units

but terrible air

[wet crater]

Got it

Least I have a lot of air

I whacked down more air bases

Can I launch naval invasions from britain even if I dont call them in?

Ideally I dont call them in and take the fight to the germans and italians via naval invasions

[glacial steeple]

yes

air too

[wet crater]

That means I effectively can try as much as I want to land

And I can shred up their air before I invade

Same with their combined fleets

[formal python]

what is "Torpedo cooldown"?

[twin fiber]

in philippine non aligned path where you can integrate and core some some south american nations, after you do master of pacific focus which changes your nation name and flag THEN you core some left over nations, your nation gets renamed back to hispanic empire, is this inteded?

[tepid umbra]

I believe it's a naval combat stat

[surreal merlin]

does anyone know a good guide for germany in hoi4? (or really just a guide for learning the game?) ideally one that doesnt rely on weird exploits, and one that isnt just basics since i dont have patience to sit through one hour of someone explaining how to recruit a division or some other thing

[cold bloom]

What does master of the pacific rename you to again?

[twin fiber]

depends i think? i use a mod that changes name so im not sure if correct but non aligned makes me Austronesian Commonwealth and democractic just does Austronesia

lemme look at files

[cold bloom]

Hmm might be fine, Hispanic and Austronesian dont really overlap

[indigo sapphire]

hello should i play a new country like italy?

[twin fiber]

yeah i plan on forming maphilindo once war finishes anyways so dont mind, just surprised me cause yellow overlaps with commie japan and i thought masters of pacific would permanently fix it

[fleet moth]

Guys any tut for multiplayer templates bc my divs get destroyed in multi even tank ones

[fathom thistle]

What template did u use?

[fleet moth]

I think the standard division template wich is 3 rows of inf and also added anti tanl

Tank

And as tank division 2 rows of heavy tanks and 2 of mechanised with light flame tank and assault company or whatever is the name

[fathom thistle]

Use TD's in multiplayer

[fleet moth]

The heavy tank design was improved radio 2 light canons medium three man turret and 4 armor and 4 engine

[fleet moth]

And as infantry?

I saw a tut where it said 2 rows of mechanised 2 of td and 1 single heavy tank

[fathom thistle]

Sounds good.

[fleet moth]

Can you answer priv i'll ask you some more things

[surreal merlin]

...

[modern kestrel]

Yo

I think im blind

How to see naval experience rank

I dont see it at all

[dusty sandal]

Rank ?
Can you elaborate ?

[modern kestrel]

like army rank

recruit

or air force rank

maybe its called combat rank

[dusty sandal]

Bittersteal 2025 germany guide is alright, just outdated with templates, designs and some strats

[modern kestrel]

do blitzkrieg with tanks

[dusty sandal]

You mean ship/division experience ?

[modern kestrel]

ye

[surreal merlin]

that doesnt really help, because i fail at doing so

[dusty sandal]

Select an army or fleet, it's next to their icon

[modern kestrel]

nvm found out it doesnt exis theres no rank

only experience

[surreal merlin]

alr thx!

[fleet moth]

any1 who can come private?

[spice dagger]

what do you think? i'll add more tank battalions as my industry ramps up

[hollow linden]

Uhhh, just produce the tank and make the template once u can afford it. Making a shit template now only to change it later does almost nothing

This is barely finished too

[spice dagger]

fair

[hollow linden]

While were on it, replace the support Arty with field hospitals and use armored engineer and replace the signal with armored recon

[spice dagger]

alr then time to research military engineering vehicles

[spice dagger]

how much better is armored engineer than normal engineer?

[hollow linden]

By a lot

It's more stats

[light knoll]

armored engineers is better than assault engineers for tanks?

[gusty egret]

Torpedoes fire once every 4 hours instead of once every hour like other weapons. This trait reduces their cooldown to firing once every 3 hours.

[hollow linden]

Depends. Armored is for defending. Assault is for attacking

[gusty egret]

Assault Engineers are very powerful because they allow you to turn a lot of terrain penalties into bonuses on the attack.

[hollow linden]

So as Russia you'd do armored whereas Germany you'd do assault

[gusty egret]

Generally speaking, defenders get advantages on terrain, and you still attack while defending (by "counterclicking"), so assault engineers tend to be more generally useful.

Armored engineers are still good, but they're mainly good on units where you expect to sit and defend with them and never counterattack.

[light knoll]

makes sense

[gusty egret]

This should be fine if you have green air (though depending on your build, heavy TDs can be better than heavy tanks), so it's probably other factors at play.

[gusty egret]

It's mainly better if you are using motorized (don't) or mechanized.

Since a part of their improvement is that they add to motorized and mechanized entrenchment, whereas regular engineers only buff leg infantry entrenchment.

[gusty egret]

This is very insufficient.

For pre-41 fighting, you want 14 armor clicks and then enough engine clicks to keep you fast enough to be legal (and a bit more if you will have red air).

[glacial steeple]

delnar youre so active here the past day or so, whats up with that :p

[gusty egret]

I realized the server exists and occasionally check this specific channel (and nothing else) when I'm waiting for stuff to be done.

[glacial steeple]

lmao fair enough

its great when youre motivated and theres lots of clueless people

[gusty egret]

There are might be other, smaller differences in the design that push your opponents into having better stats. MIO trait picks and level (and policy), the generals and field marshals they use, the specific engine and suspension they use, what support companies they use... all of these can make a difference.

[light knoll]

you also just don't wanna make tanks as most nations

[fierce idol]

so polish focus tree.... what do I do?

[gusty egret]

Eh, the meta is different now.

[light knoll]

very few nations really make tanks in the current meta

[gusty egret]

Some countries use TDs, some use tanks, some use both.

Depends on the build.

There's even been some experimenting with mediums as well now. Turns out you can get a surprisingly high amount of stats out of medium TDs with the right setup.

[glacial steeple]

i hope to hear more about it when its a bit fleshed out :)

its good for helping people

[gusty egret]

What complicates things is that the more interesting builds are also much harder to execute macro-wise.

Because you're juggling around multiple different tank lines for multiple different setups.

[glacial steeple]

well, it depends i think

if your enemy is at the same stat / macro level, the build could still be good

[gusty egret]

There's a specific 50-50 Germany build that even the RB people say is hard for them to pull off because the macro is funky.

[glacial steeple]

of td and spg?

[gusty egret]

TD and tank.

[glacial steeple]

ohh

for break?

[gusty egret]

Yes.

[glacial steeple]

ive tried before the update a bit before

it can be good yeah**

you didnt see that

[gusty egret]

Vencord did. 😉

[glacial steeple]

well, with td you just give up on adding break to it so its cheap

imo

and then you have enough normal tanks for break vs whatever enemy you face

which is only difficult when you both run conversion tech

[gusty egret]

The CAS changes and the subdoctrines make it way easier to get a lot of hard attack on tanks now.

[glacial steeple]

but easy if both sides dont

[gusty egret]

So people are starved for breakthrough, but then if they do only heavy tanks, they often don't actually end up with enough hard attack.

And that's before we factor in the Self-Propelled Support vs. Siege Artillery debate.

Self-Propelled Support is insanely overtuned, and the only reason people don't use it more is because Siege Artillery is even more overtuned and broken.

[glacial steeple]

i used this once in a mcw game a whilee ago

your stats are def different now and prob more td

and less trolley supports

[gusty egret]

Well, for one, you're probably using SHH.

Because you get positive stats on Urban with it.

Because PDS were high on something when they made the Siege Artillery subdoctrine.

[glacial steeple]

yeah supports def are different

[glacial steeple]

its hard to grind unmodded

like you get it late

[gusty egret]

You don't need to grind it to get the big benefit.

Since the big benefit is in the opener.

The urban attack IIRC is at the 100 level, so you can absolutely get it from banking mastery.

And as long as the funky convert bug exists, you can exploit it to get a lot of land doctrine mastery at very little IC cost.

In fact, in a situation where mastery is harder to get, Siege Artillery is even more busted because its important bonuses are unlocked so early.

Whereas with stuff like Self-Propelled Support, it takes a while to get to the +30% speed.

[glacial steeple]

same for indiv excellence / grand assault i imagine?

[gusty egret]

Any land doctrine.

[glacial steeple]

mybe not even grand maybe like rapid domination

for early buff

[gusty egret]

Ah, you mean the early unlocks.

[royal hill]

guuuys... hellppp what do i do in dis situation

[glacial steeple]

yes

[gusty egret]

I haven't had too close of a look, but yeah, IE's HP bonus being in its opener for leg infantry makes it much stronger.

But LUT's combat width reduction isn't too far in, and infantry subdoctrine mastery is the easiest to grind anyway.

[glacial steeple]

it matters if you play a nation with like <1mil core pop

[gusty egret]

Sort of.

LUT is able to get a lot more concentrated stats, so you get crit less and are able to crit vs. soft targets more.

And in the long term, that also keeps losses lower.

I'd argue the supply factor might be more important with IE vs. LUT.

[hollow linden]

I see green. I don't see a problem problem

[royal hill]

thing is

i cant break out

😔

and slowly the west is bleeding me

[gusty egret]

As for Grand Assault, the +20% Coordination bonus is at the 300 mastery level IIRC, and that alone is enough to push it way, way up there for tank doctrines.

The devs went from underestimating how important reinforce rate was pre-NCNS to now overestimating it and then underestimating Coordination.

[glacial steeple]

i just wonder like imagine you legit cannot grind any doctrine beyond initial node whats best

its not hard to figure out i just havent tried

[gusty egret]

Since that bonus coordination then gets multiplied by Initiative, which people have more of now because of subdoctrines that give initiative, subdoctrines buffing signal companies, and the lack of reinforce rate in doctrines making signals generally more important.

[gusty egret]

Again, you can always use freaky converts to get a lot of progress in infantry and operations subdoctrines even if you are stuck with nothing but gun 0.

[glacial steeple]

but youd need manpower...

[gusty egret]

You need way less of it for grinding support company doctrine, too.

Since its gain rate is 10x the "base" rate.

Operations is the one that is the most intensive because its gain rate is 0.7x the "base" rate.

Which is also why you pick it first 99% of the time in a game where you need to grind mastery.

[deft plinth]

guys how i can use console in multiplayer with my friends

[surreal merlin]

why do i have low supply here

[gusty egret]

You can turn on the supply map mode to see how much supply is available in each province, what the sources of that supply are, and how much of it you're consuming. Usually, it's because you're too far from the nearest supply hub compared to how much supply your division requires, as the amount of supply each hub can transit decreases with distance, rough terrain, and lack of motorization.

In some cases, it's because the supply hubs are overloaded, which means it's because the connection between your supply capital (which is usually, but not always, your country's capital) and your supply hubs supporting your forces is too thin, and you need to upgrade it by increasing the level of your railways, increasing the level of your naval bases (if there is an overseas part of the supply connection), and/or just building more supply hubs and/or naval bases to spread out the supply load between multiple hubs.

[surreal merlin]

alr thx

[spice dagger]

this is my tank design yet this are the predicted stats for my medium tank division

wtf??

[glacial steeple]

oh

you have a "newer" design it uses

[spice dagger]

found the issue

[glacial steeple]

go to equipment and disable it to see stats

[spice dagger]

yeah thanks

that's better

[ivory ridge]

can one or more get in a call help me get better at japan

or just tips will help

[glacial steeple]

make plane after taking china

[tropic seal]

singeplayer ai is not real bruh

[glass hinge]

Do i get america if i win against allies?

[narrow chasm]

guys why do i have no see acces and everythings red in the sea( i am playing america)

[narrow chasm]

i have only small sea acess near my mainland coastds

[stuck garnet]

Low range?

No bases?

[narrow chasm]

Even where i have bases

stil lred

for example fillipines

[narrow chasm]

All red

[gray hull]

Theres a gear by the admiral press that and it should have supply

[opaque garden]

u need america capped to cap allies

its all majors in the faction must be capped

[jade tulip]

people say meta is 9/2, but why? I did calculations and in my case 7/2 works better

[light knoll]

meta is 9/0

or well

8/0

[jade tulip]

whatever it is, why?

[light knoll]

line artillery is not good

and 16w is the best width for defense on most tiles

18w better for plains but plains are not good for defense

36w best for offence

again, just pure infantry

[jade tulip]

deleted art and added one more infantry to 8/0, how is this even good?

or Im missing support companies

[onyx trout]

why don't my naval invasion work as germany on the british. I watched a video by MachiavellianStrategist, did everything he asked. told me to go through dover and portsmouth, I ofcourse do that and still get annihilated. Please I just want to win as germany one time.

[jade tulip]

for brits u just gotta be fast, the earlier you invade them the easier too

[grave patio]

What focuses should I do first/focus on during 1936 until the war

As Germany

[onyx trout]

thats the thing too, Everytime I start the war with the polish, I steam roll them quickly in about 6 months give or take, but then when I invade belgian it feels like im actually playing ahistorical since going through them is harder then the poles for some reason

same with france

[jade tulip]

war with poland should not take 6 months max, it should take 1 month max, after that get netherlands first, then wait for the max prep you can get and agressively attack belgium from all sides, after that you push with france instantly and if u have motorized infantry Its basically over for them because before they get from maginot you will be already in paris, after that start turning some of your infantry divs to tank divs, make sure you have full org and supply level on all of them, get naval domination in english channel (should be easy) and when you land with your first divs, get the other ones and push to London, if you get there before brits get "volunteers" and they spam 1000 divs on one tile, you should get the capital, remember to have CAS and transport planes dropping supplies, Its always helping

[native bloom]

PEG if leftside eco, rhineland, fuhrerprinzip, todt, then go towards anschluss and sudetenland/czechs

[onyx trout]

can you send me a template to use? Since how exactly will I get through poland, if it takes me 6 months already

[native bloom]

look at segl germany guide

[grave patio]

Thank u

[jade tulip]

not sure if I have a save on that time but basically either just go meta templates or just get a lot of light tanks and motorized infantry, they should be fast enough, you should switch to medium tanks when possible and afterwards use light tanks for garrison

[grave patio]

Why peg isn’t their a bunch of debuffs at the start

[native bloom]

bc it gives u a nation spirit that lasts for a few months that gives u extra consumer goods, so you wanna let it tick down while u do ur anschluss/czechs so u can build with all the civs u get from annexs later

[grave patio]

Ahh okay

[oak jasper]

How important is HP, esp. to an offensive unit? I'm eyeing two 18W marine division designs, one which is just a solid block of 9 marine battalions, the other of which is 6 marine and 2 line infantry battalions. If need be, I could fatten to 36W like standard offensive units, it'd just cost army XP.

Pure marines: 203 HP, 49 org, 148 soft, 76 breakthrough.
With 2x line arty: 139 HP, 37 org, 197 soft, 73 breakthrough.

[native bloom]

HP is important

[dusty sandal]

to give you a rough idea, if you were to reach 1k hp, you would basically take no damage whatsoever

700hp, which is possible in vanilla mean you take almost no losses

[onyx trout]

do i need to rush it so that i make 1.5 width divs and later make them 30 width. and do I need to send them to spian

[hardy sequoia]

Its called blob unit

[native bloom]

i would send to spain so u can get grind and adaptable general trait

[light knoll]

16w divisions are defensive units. they're meant to hold the line, not to have that high atk. for offence, 36w are ideal

but either way, atk is not the only stat that matters

[gusty egret]

Sort of.

There's a few schools of thought. In some cases, bricks are better for defense. In others, 10 widths are better for defense.

[limber river]

https://klipy.com/gifs/bosnov-67

[gusty egret]

So, the first thing is the unit type, pure infantry. Put simply, infantry are the cheapest battalion type out there for the stats they give. They are so cheap that even if you have nominally worse soft attack than if you were using, say, line artillery, you still end up trading better in terms of the industrial cost of replacing losses.

There are other setups that can be better than pure infantry, but none of them involve any line artillery. Line artillery is, well, really bad.

And the reason why line artillery is bad is both that it costs way too much for the stats it gives, and also that the stats it gives are just worse in terms of combat width density. In the meta before Arms Against Tyranny released, combat widths were generally much, much wider, and so saturating combat width in a front was much harder. These days though, saturating combat width is very easy, so pure stats don't matter as much compared to stats per combat width... and line artillery is just very bad at that, even with Fire Concentration.

In terms of combat width, that's where things diverge a bit. Bigger divisions ("bricks") are generally better for attacking, but being overwidth (having more combat width attacking than what's nominally allowed) is not worth it for pure infantry divisions. So you generally want to use infantry bricks sized to match the combat widths of the terrain you're fighting on or thereabouts: 35 for Plains, Hills, and Desert, 30 for Forest and Jungle, 25 for Mountains and Marshes, 40 for Urban. If you have multiple types and are lazy, pick a brick size somewhere in between. That's why you saw someone recommend 34 widths, because they're between the 30 and 35 widths that you'll find in most fronts, though if you've got a lot more 30 width-based tiles than 35 width ones, 32 might be better.

A similar principle applies for defending re: wanting to match combat widths, but for defending, smaller ones can also work. Bigger divisions suffer fewer losses when defending and are more efficient for Last Stand, but smaller divisions are better at stuffing more organization into the same combat widths and are less vulnerable to "reinforce memes", where defending divisions in a battle are all defeated before any units still in reserves can reinforce into the battle. 34, 32, 30, 20, 16, 14, and 10 are all popular combat widths people go for for defensive setups, and the exact amount you pick should depend on the terrains available, whether you have combat width-reducing defensive tactics available (Guerilla Tactics and Tactical Withdrawal), and how much you value the benefits of defensive bricks vs. the benefits of smaller divisions.

[gusty egret]

Don't use line artillery. Not only is the lower HP a lot worse, but the benefits you get from line artillery are not worth it.

If you really, really want to use something like line artillery, use light SPGs instead. You can make them for insanely cheap, and not only do they have better combat stats for their combat width, but they also are more efficient to produce because you can up-gun old SPGs as you unlock new cannons, and switching your production line to an SPG with a better cannon only loses you 10% of your efficiency instead of 70%.

To put the cherry on top, light SPGs can benefit from both armor and artillery subdoctrines, whereas line artillery can only benefit from artillery subdoctrines.

[fathom thistle]

Why not medium SPG? Is it just about the ic cost?

[gusty egret]

Pretty much, yes.

[fathom thistle]

gotcha

[gusty egret]

It's also that you can use medium cannons on light SPGs, too. The main benefit you get from medium SPGs is breakthrough (light SPGs require fixed superstructure and so give very little breakthrough), they're otherwise a lot more costly than lights for their stats.

And while medium SPGs can use heavy cannons with fixed superstructure, the only heavy cannon for an SPG unlocks very late into the game, at 1943 artillery tech IIRC.

[austere roost]

yeah the lvl3 howitzer is a heavy cannon

[silk abyss]

Is there a homepage where is best doctorine and different thing. "meta"

[harsh bane]

What is that “currency” used to build factories and how do I know how much of it I have

[gusty egret]

There is no currency, it's siloed off for each production line.

[silk abyss]

There aren´t currency. Do you use mods?

[harsh bane]

Yeah ik it’s not a currency I should’ve said resource

[fathom thistle]

Production something and if you hover over the icon before clicking it, it says how much u need of it

[harsh bane]

It’s like this resource that’s represented by a factory icon

[fathom thistle]

for example mils are cheaper then civs

[gusty egret]

It's also not really a resource.

[fathom thistle]

yea

it's kinda irrelevant since u can see when it finishes anyway

[gusty egret]

Again, each production line tracks how much progress there currently is towards making the equipment on that line, but that progress doesn't transfer or save in any way.

Military factories contribute to that progress based on their base output, output modifiers, and production efficiency, the three of which apply multiplicatively with each other.

[harsh bane]

I am very new to this game I bought it yesterday and I have 1,154.7 hours in Stellaris

[gusty egret]

And the amount of progress needed is the equipment's production cost, with potential cost modifiers that can work in three different ways depending on weird spaghetti code.

[harsh bane]

This game seems way more complex than Stellaris

[fathom thistle]

Not really, economy and state wise it's similar. The main difference is how you interact with armies.

Like it's not moving from one system to another but you actually have to plan attacks

[harsh bane]

Really it’s not more complex than Stellaris?

[fathom thistle]

It's just different style of ui mostly.

instead of councilors u have political advisors

and other advisors for different armies and bonuses to them

[glacial steeple]

more no?

production output cost, production cost

conversion

[harsh bane]

They also tell me that Italy is a good starting nation but then my war in Ethiopia grinds to a halt

[fathom thistle]

thats bcs italy has shit starting templates (basically bad ship design in stellaris)

[glacial steeple]

i think its a pretty poor starting nation

[ember geyser]

Stellaris is more complex tbh

but hoi4 has good depth

[glacial steeple]

and more new player friendly

[harsh bane]

And I wish the YouTube tutorial would actually walk me through a playthrough in order but it shows me all the features in the wrong order

Maybe it’s just the UI being different than Stellaris that overwhelms me I’m really not sure

[fathom thistle]

pretty much

[harsh bane]

I can’t help but notice that this game has Roblox rise of nations sounds and music

[fathom thistle]

😭 brutal comparison

[jade tulip]

Who's gonna tell him

[gusty egret]

Those are the three basic ones, production output cost is part of one of the three ways production cost can work.

Same with conversion, conversion applies to cost, not to output. Unless we're talking refits, in which case refit speed is indeed an output modifier, not a cost modifier.

[wanton moth]

yo how does the anarchist revolution decisions work

since sometimesi get them sometimes i dont

[harsh bane]

Roblox Rise of Nations was my first grand strategy game

[glacial steeple]

isnt prod output cost part of the output?

not on design

[gusty egret]

That's one of the three ways it can work.

There are cost modifiers that apply to the output of a specific line, there are cost modifiers that apply to multiple lines at a country level, and there are cost modifiers that apply to specific designs.

With the specific design modifiers also sometimes being retroactive (e.g., Proximity Fuze prototype result bonus) and sometimes not (e.g., Hungary's Innovative Weapons Designer advisor).

Like I said at the top, spaghetti code.

[harsh bane]

Why is Malaya democratic but no elections

[gusty egret]

They are a puppet, democratic puppets don't get elections.

Or rather, they don't get elections that follow the elections mechanic, they do often get elections that are just events or event chains.

[high ember]

hi i have a question, why is it that after a bit of playing i cant use all of my factories? I click to add more but then it goes red and stops producing, please help.

[uncut narwhal]

what exactly goes to red?

[glacial steeple]

cg

[gusty egret]

Red factories mean factories that are damaged and need to be repaired.

[uncut narwhal]

what is cg

[ocean bane]

Hi i need recomendation for templates
Currently im in late vs AI 1942 as German Empire im trying to restore HRE, im at war with the allies and commitern, but i just cant push anymore
My infantry template its 9 INF, support art, AA and enginers, my tank template 7 mediums, 5 motorized, light tank recon, support art and mech eng

The navy war its already won i destroy the british and USA fleets, but also im losing in the air

[glacial steeple]

consumer goods

[gusty egret]

Factories can generally be damaged from bombing, partisan activity, or collateral damage from ordinary fighting happening in the state.

[high ember]

the icon

[uncut narwhal]

i dont think his consumer good icons are going red

[glacial steeple]

the construction one?

[gusty egret]

Their factories are damaged.

[uncut narwhal]

yea then they are damaged, they other guy explained it welll

[glacial steeple]

it could be that

[high ember]

ah dang it

i was wondering for so long why i cant produce anything

[glacial steeple]

resources?

[uncut narwhal]

10 tanks, 8 cav/mech, support arty, flame tanks, assault engineer company

[gusty egret]

Replace motorized with mechanized in your tank template, for one.

Motorized are way less production-efficient compared to mechanized. Just make sure to save up 100 army XP to fully discount mechanized's production cost when you unlock it.

That cost discount is a big reason why they are so much better than motorized.

Also, put logistics companies into your divisions. You are probably guzzling up your supply on your fronts, so lowering your divisions' supply use should increase their stats in the field.

[high ember]

resources are usally fine

[ocean bane]

Thanks
Have any examples on how o build modern tanks? Im close to unlock it

Im rn at work and cant show how i build my tanks

[high ember]

but if it happens again i will send a screenshot

[gusty egret]

They're a bad idea.

[ocean bane]

Thanks, didnt think abt that

[gusty egret]

Funnily enough, modern tanks are arguably worse than even 1943 mediums because you cannot put secondary turrets on them.

And while secondary turrets on tanks were historically kind of bad, in HoI4, they are one of the best options for tank designs.

[ocean bane]

I read somewhere that also my INF divs i should replace them with mechs, is that true or its overkill?

[gusty egret]

It's overkill.

Inf is fine, just make sure you have 1942 infantry equipment unlocked and in production.

[ocean bane]

Kk yeah current have 50 facts on STG43

[gusty egret]

In general though, switching lines tends to be a bad idea, which is why meta tank designs rarely use the later chassis.

[harsh bane]

Wait but South Africa has elections and South Africa is a puppet

[gusty egret]

And why unlocking stuff like mechanized 1 or higher-tier gun equipment early is so powerful, because it also lets you get a head start on building up efficiency for them.

[gusty egret]

It's... complicated.

Elections used to be a dedicated mechanic that all democratic countries followed.

[ocean bane]

Ohhh thank you so much man, hope this help me a lot

[gusty egret]

But as new patches and DLCs released, often with dedicated event chains for elections, that mechanic became tied up in more and more spaghetti code.

[glacial steeple]

i only use them when im bored and want low stat tanks with like a million reliability

theyre a good source of break ig

[gusty egret]

Casemate turret.

[glacial steeple]

SH gun modern tds?

[gusty egret]

Torsion Bar, Diesel Engine, just not doing engine or armor clicks, etc. etc.

[wanton moth]

Erm how do i get compliance faster

[gusty egret]

Set up Collaboration Governments with spies before you capitulate a country, use the most lax occupation law available to you once it's already occupied (but not No Garrisons unless you deliberately want to spike Resistance for some reason), don't be at war.

[wanton moth]

I usually use civilian oversight

[gusty egret]

That's the most lax option available to most non-democracies.

[glacial steeple]

liberated workers ftw

[gusty egret]

They're just asking about increasing compliance.

Liberated Workers is better in terms of cost efficiency, but that is a different question.

[glacial steeple]

being communist in this game is so forgiving

you get free manpower and probably the easiest to use occupation law

[wanton moth]

Sighhhh anarchist spain is good and bad at the same time

[gusty egret]

Don't forget the access to War Economy without needing to go to war.

[wanton moth]

Since u get little to no pp so coring stuff will take a long time

[gusty egret]

I have heard it characterized as like playing a zombie horde in a zombie survival game.

Where you start small and slowly snowball over time as you eat up and then core more territory.

[wanton moth]

I mean true

But i burned out through all my mp using 36w inf div template

[glacial steeple]

its like a zombie horde thats struggling to get zombies

[wanton moth]

Its a fun path but very time consuming

Falangist is more straight forward

And the anarchist revolution decisions are weird

[sour mountain]

can anyone check #tech-support its dead

[neat widget]

piercing meme moment

[harsh bane]

How do I see the name of a province (not state)

[gusty egret]

They don't have names.

The only ones that do are the ones with explicit victory point values, and they're labelled on the map.

(Implicitly, all provinces without an explicit victory point value have a victory point value of 1)

[harsh bane]

What happens if you only take part of a state

[glacial steeple]

nothing really

you get state control when its 50%+

of points on the state

[harsh bane]

Is there state that is one province

[glacial steeple]

no

bukovina is 2

[wanton moth]

Yo uh whats the best offensive inf div

[glacial steeple]

i believe some baltic states as well

[glacial steeple]

idk

@spice pine no modern politicians/controversial figures #server-rules

[wanton moth]

Ok the second one is just

Prob 1 div at max

[glacial steeple]

its infantry

[wanton moth]

I dont think i can afford allat

[glacial steeple]

its 3K ic

a bit less

its not that expensive

[wanton moth]

I mean if i manage to kill the uk early i guess i can make it

[austere roost]

If you can't afford it then take some supports off

[glacial steeple]

you can make this with like 4 mils if you want

because the logistics are dummy simple

also that

[wanton moth]

No support arti and anti tank?

[glacial steeple]

neither of them have support at

support arty is affordable

[wanton moth]

I mean u js need inf eq lots of support and some aa

Oh and trucks

[glacial steeple]

not even lots of supp

left side is for when youre dirt poor

no projects

[wanton moth]

Idk how many div i might pull out tho

[glacial steeple]

if you dont have a large eco you wont have many offensive divs

[wanton moth]

I can get a decent eco

Yeah the first one i can def afford

[slate sinew]

how does one even manage this

[gusty egret]

Luxembourg used to be, but now it's 2 provinces.

[gusty egret]

Support anti-tank is unnecessary against the AI because it is very bad at fielding high-hardness divisions, and it's even worse at fielding tanks with high armor.

[wanton moth]

I see

[gusty egret]

Support anti-air is enough to pierce AI-designed tank divisions.

[gusty egret]

36w ranger brick is certainly a choice.

[glacial steeple]

i think i stole it from someone because it isnt in portuguese

was the first i had saved on my phone

[pallid wadi]

what should i be researching

[gusty egret]

If you're doing ranger bricks, it's because you expect to be fighting primarily in forests or jungles. Both are 60w, and overwidthing non-tanks is usually not a good idea, so you'd do 30w bricks if it's full rangers probably.

[gusty egret]

Computing techs (if not ahead-of-time), industry techs.

[pallid wadi]

ok

[neat widget]

why is one half rangers half mountaineers and the other full forest rangers

[wanton moth]

Can u even produce tank divisions as spain as early as 1940

[harsh bane]

Guys I found a critical bug

Liechtenstein isn’t in the game

[glacial steeple]

one of them i stole the other one i didnt steal

i like having units be applicable to a variety of terrains in sp

unless its like baltic/finland gameplay

or idk austria all mountains

[gusty egret]

You can produce tank divisions as South Africa by 1940, and South Africa has way worse industry than Spain.

And I'm not talking cheapo garbage tank divisions, I'm talking tanks that are usable in tryhard vanilla multiplayer games.

[gusty egret]

Full-doctrine mountaineers generally have better stats on all terrain except forests and jungles compared to full-doctrine rangers, and especially given how land doctrines cost far less army XP now, you can get to that full doctrine point a lot more reliably.

Mixing mountaineers and rangers like that can work if you have access to both doctrines, but if you only have one, then full mountaineer is usually better than mixes with rangers unless you know you'll be fighting in a lot of forests and/or jungles, where rangers will still do better than mountaineers.

And yes, mountaineers tend to have better urban stats as well because of the extremely powerful -0.2 combat width you get from mountaineer doctrine.

[heady skiff]

What do I even do from here as Austria

I had to kick Italy out the faction because they declared on the Allies and I was NOT doing allat