2┃build-planning

[cosmic basin]

https://www.poe2wiki.net/wiki/Gem_socket

40-65-90

[wet mango]

regen is a form of recovery. leech, recharge, recoup, etc are all forms of recovery.

[keen glade]

yeah, good to anoint as well since its pretty cheap.

[hallow flax]

I'll give that a try before going for my 3rd ascendancy then if I can. Delierums/breach still confuse me on how to best set them up before activating them.

[hybrid ocean]

Anyone know if ignite can cause chill buildup with Blueflame gauntlets?

[median kraken]

No. DoTs can't inflict ailments. Actually, I don't think they can even be converted (they can't in PoE1), I think ignite still does fire damage with blueflame

[hybrid ocean]

I see, thank you

[wet mango]

dots in fact cannot be converted

[hybrid ocean]

That explains the funky wording on that one ring that makes ignite deal chaos damage

[median kraken]

Exactly

[wet mango]

it doesn't

it makes enemies take ignite damage as chaos

[hybrid ocean]

Do they still take the fire damage? If not, I don't see how that's different

Well, functionally speaking. The code behaves differently I suppose.

[wet mango]

it's quite different. For one, it would still scale with incr Fire dmg, not incr chaos dmage

[hybrid ocean]

Ah

[viscid niche]

Any ranger using cast on dodge with Temporalis blink? If so what skill are you using for the dodge? Been trying to figure something fun out 🙂

[old aurora]

can anyone help me figure out how to make incinerate work with a sorc stormweaver, trying to figure out something that at least deals damage and then maybe can move around quick via blink?

[distant aspen]

How many attribute points does a level 20 skill gem require? For example, a level 19 skill gem needs 191 int for the skills that I have, how much higher is level 20?

[wet mango]

just check poe2db
https://poe2db.tw/us/Explosive_Shot

[distant aspen]

thanks, sorry I didn't know about this site

[hybrid ocean]

Oh, is the Pathfinder movement penalty reduction additive with the mobility support gem?

[thorny token]

looked multiplicate when i was trying it

[worldly stone]

what should i socket into my morior invictus that has 5 percent attribute and 10 percent rarity of items found. i have weak element resists or should i socket increase armour and evasion and energy sheild instead of the individual elemental resistances

[thorny token]

as it did not had that big effect when i used it together with mobility

[shy ermine]

should i be using cold modifier or physical catalyst for freeze buildup lightning deadeye? Not sure what does more dps

[opal bobcat]

If I want to build curses for my witch (with blasphemy and hexblast), would infernalist or blood witch be better?

[wet mango]

"less" penalty

is like "more"

so, multiplicative

[hybrid ocean]

Ah, I see

[wet mango]

i believe mobility is also "less" penalty

make sure you understand +/more/incr

[hybrid ocean]

Am on phone so I couldn't find the wording

[wet mango]

(and similarly -/less/reduced)

[wet mango]

https://poe2db.tw/us/Mobility

[hybrid ocean]

I do, with the one caveat that it's unintuitive that less/more are multiplicative within their own category.

[wet mango]

now you can theorycraft straight from your phone 😄

[hybrid ocean]

Of the ascension node, that is

I have 3 poe2db tabs open lol

[wet mango]

wdym

each less/more is multiplicative

only incr/reduc are additive

[hybrid ocean]

I mean, I get how it does work

[wet mango]

i'm not saying it's "intuitive" that more/less don't stack, but I don't think there's any reasion to intuitively think they do?

[hybrid ocean]

It's just that I would've expected it to be
(Base + +/- ) * (incr + incr + red + red ) * ( more + more + less )

But instead all more and less is multiplied

[wet mango]

well the whole point of more/less is that they're different than incr/red

they don't stack

they're not just a separate stack

30% more is always 30% more

[hybrid ocean]

Yep

Ig I meant not so much intuitive as the path of least resistance when implementing things

If these were physical laws rather than equations in a video game this would be entirely unsurprising, you get me?

[mystic shard]

hows chaos innoculation work with demon form?

will u insta 1 tap urself?

[west epoch]

yeah more than likely

.5% of 1HP > rounded up

= 1 damage

[hybrid ocean]

You'll instantly exit demon form, since being at 1HP is the condition for that

Whether you exit it as a corpse or not remains to be determined, but I'd assume not

[mystic shard]

wouldn't it need to be 50.5%?

(Ah I see, ofcourse the devils advocate would know the intricacies of demon forms)

How does it work with bleeding?

I hear it somehow stops b leeding killing u even though bleeding is physical dmg.

[west epoch]

all numbers round up

but then also, yes, 1HP untransforms you

So if i bleed something and aggravate it, then use the same skill that procs a bleed, does that overwrite the aggravated bleed?

[hybrid ocean]

Source? I know they round down on the skill tree, see Hulking form with 1% nodes & Widowhail with levels.

[west epoch]

its the way it was in poe1

pretty certain

[mystic shard]

that hulking form should work on attribute nodes

its only like +600 hp if u have all +5 str lol

its dumb it doesn't.

[echo yoke]

can herald of ice freeze?

[iron harbor]

anyone knows if Aura effect applies to Blasphemy curses?

[wary oar]

I'm assuming playing into ignite debuff is not viable?

[hallow flax]

Might be a silly question, but do items ever reach a maximum item level or threshold, or is your gear supposed to level up to 100 as well?

I'm curious if there are thresholds when it's best to invest your resources into improving your gear and when there comes a plataeu to consider.

[shy ermine]

Would using ingenuity for clearing/bosses work better then headhunter? or could i have both and swap to headhunter during breaches?

[wet mango]

ilvl doesn't make an item stronger, it seems like you might be misunderstanding that

ilvl just records where it dropped from

and thus what mods can roll on it

[dawn condor]

aye gng what's a good pathfinder build to fall back on if they nerf the concoction skills

[hybrid ocean]

It makes it stronger on average

[dawn condor]

or should just reroll?

[wet mango]

no

it can roll better mods

but a white ilvl 60 is the same as a white ilvl 81 item

[hallow flax]

So Expert gear is considered "maxed out" for the sake of comparison?

As in there's no tier higher than that to obtain.

[wet mango]

those are the highest group of basetypes, yes

see e.g. https://www.poe2wiki.net/wiki/Body_armour

[wary oar]

to support this idea: I've been using an item I've dropped when I was lvl 5, I'm lvl 40 now, the item has a "+1 to all fire spells" modifier ilvl doesn't mean a lot, but the rolled modifiers mean more in certain builds, is what I understand

[hallow flax]

It's more so just making sure I'm swapping things out at appropriate times. I often found I was using my gear around 10 - 15 item levels from my current level before I found an appropriate replacement.

[wary oar]

that is okay

a good indicator of whether you should swap gear or not is to check the estimated dps of your skill gems

[pearl sluice]

There's like 5 different infernalist builds I don't know wich to chose

[west epoch]

in poe1, mods stopped requireing higher iLVL at 86 to get to higher tiers

[hybrid ocean]

Well yeah, of course. I'd think you'd either be averaging over all rarities or only considering rares anyway

[wet mango]

the reason we are making this (important!) distinction is that in other games (d3?/d4) item level/item power actually makes the item stronger

like an item lvl 70 mace with XYZ mods is literally stronger than an ilvl 60 mace with the same XYZ mods

[wary oar]

grim dawn, torchlight as well

[wet mango]

so, there is a bit of art here in answering the question that they're actually asking, not what the words say

[wet mango]

wasn't familiar with those, thanks for the examples

[hybrid ocean]

Ah, ic

[hybrid ocean]

I'm familiar with the need for this in other contexts, guess I lacked the context/awareness to apply it here.

[wary oar]

is there way to tell if your build concept is foolproof early on to avoid finishing campaign?

[sterile thistle]

Hello, for poisonous concoction, when I hold alt it states that it has Additional Effects from Quality, but I can't use Gemcutter's on it... Does anyone know if it's a bug or that intended? If it doesn't work, why does it display Additional Effects from Quality then?

[hybrid ocean]

Sure is

[wary oar]

good point

[hybrid ocean]

Lmao no it's not

[sterile thistle]

it's not what?

[winged heron]

Do you think I could make this build work as a monk? It doesn't seem like Archmage is a must-have
https://mobalytics.gg/poe-2/builds/blink-autobomber-jungroan

[wet mango]

yeah to be clear I'm not criticizing you just elaborating on my pedanticness

[wet mango]

it's not a skill gem, it's a skill

all skills have some quality effect, some ways can give quality aside from GCP (which can only work on skill gems)

[sterile thistle]

yeah, I understand it's a skill, but how are you supposed to add quality to it without Gemcutter?

[winged heron]

[wet mango]

gemling ascendancy is one, and there may be others in the future

[winged heron]

that would be another way but it would prevent you from increasing it further

[wet mango]

e.g. support gems that increase quality

[wet mango]

can again only use that on skill gems

[sterile thistle]

I mean, you can't be pathfinder and gemling at the same time :))

hmm, yeah, the quality support then, I'll look into it, don't know how much it adds

[wet mango]

i'm not saying you can add quality to pconc

[sterile thistle]

or if it's worth using it instead of another support gem

[wet mango]

i'm just saying, all skills have a quality bonus, and it makes sense that they do, but you can only use GCP on skill gems

[sterile thistle]

thanks 😄

[wet mango]

idek if that exists in poe2 (yet)

i'm just giving exmaples

of things

could be a unique for exammmple that gives your skills +x% quality

[sterile thistle]

yeah, can't seem to find any support gems that add quality

[winged heron]

because there are none - yet

[crude stag]

has anyone theorycrafted/played any fire based casters so far? ive made a cold melee, lightning ranged so far.. figured a fire caster would close the loop 😅
haven't seen anything that seems to work/scale tho

[old aurora]

trying to make something of incinerate but not found many folks who know anything about it yet

[still crest]

Idk I’m noob but I play summon infernalist and goes full fire everywhere brrr

[peak drift]

question for spark archmage. I'm transitioning into EB+CI+MOM and was wondering. Would you rather have 200 more ES or cap either cold or lightning res?

[mystic shard]

damn, demon form disables ur weapons....how lame...

[crude stag]

yeah, most fire seems to be minions, sadly. not my preferred playstyle :]

[devout wadi]

Just to double check: There is no way to show other ppl our build in PoE2 right now, like with a URL link or Path of Building profile right? We have to do it 'by hand' ?

[hybrid ocean]

Oh, of course! No offense taken. As I said, I've been on the other end of this exact conversation before, and I appreciate it.

Though speaking of pedantry- Pedantry

:P

[pearl sluice]

can someone help me with giant's blood? I have 232 strength, i try to equip a 27 strenght req 2H mace, but i then can not equip my shield. I am misunderstanding the effect?

[peak slate]

any monk here doing the flicker strike build i need some help

[tidal copper]

Does it happen to be a dexterity shield?

[pearl sluice]

no it's a towershield with 60 str req

[tight goblet]

If im running cold monk what is better for ring stats
1/ %# increased cold damage
2/ add # to # cold damage to attacks
?

[tight goblet]

I tried but it doesn’t work for maps

Too risky

[tidal copper]

Weird! Screenshot or it didn't happen

[peak acorn]

Hey guys, quick question is additional projectile worth on spark build ?

[tidal copper]

You can test if you have 2 rings with those affixes
My bet will go for adds cold cause you usually get a lot of increased damage from the tree
So having a bit more base DMG to multiply is better but it really depends on the build

[pearl sluice]

@tidal copper a guy in an other thread found the solution. When i logged out and relogged it showed me my passive tree totally differently. So i guess there must have been some kind of issue when i reskilled. It got updated after a login and i could refund the passives tree once again and pick giants blood and now it works.

[tidal copper]

Noted the servers aren't doing well

[sonic steppe]

Sid you do the unlearnt and learn passive within the same refund window? I realise my passive tree always got messed up when i do that. And i had to unlearnt several points, confirm, then learn again especially if it involve those connecting path.

[azure wyvern]

does this kill you if you have CI?

[proven rapids]

I believe it does yes

[tranquil raptor]

hey, i leveled up my infernal summoner and everythiing went super smooth, now there were server problems so I couldnt do maps and decided to level up monk and I cannot do anything to bosses, any early skills I could learn to help with bosses till I get normal build going on?

I equiped bow light lightining arrow just to keep distance and it does like 5-15dmg while bosses have thousands of hp so I always run out of mana running circles around them

[cedar mountain]

Ice strike + essence of mountain and feeeze buildup nodes
Combine it with tempest bell, campaign will be a breeze

Double herald if u can

[dark saddle]

so what is the strongest monk build atm?

endgame

[hazy olive]

culling strike crossbow

[dark saddle]

is that a monk build?

[thorny token]

atm probably pillar howa builds

[dark saddle]

does that also have a good clear?

for breach and stuff

[thorny token]

very

one of best clears in th game

[tranquil raptor]

im trying to do that but you need 14 level for that and im struggling earlier

[sleek gazelle]

guys im lv 67 what mercenary build should i go for in endgame? im struggling with lighting

[thin basin]

Ok so heres the plan, basic attack chonk, phys weap, but we run that polcirkin or whatever ring with hoi for clear and bell abuse for bosses, maybe slap in flicker strike somewhere

[upbeat ivy]

is infernalist or blood mage better?

[muted stone]

How do you build around the blood witch spells costing life instead of mana? Is there a way to make it come from energy shield or mana or soemthing?

[dark saddle]

wait what is pillar howa exactly?

[thin basin]

Pillar of the caged god hand of wisdom and action stat stack

1 div and 1ex item and stack away

[thin basin]

At what

[dark saddle]

thats gonna get nerfed tho no?

heard smth about that

[thin basin]

Yes

But its the best build right now

[dark saddle]

so any alternatives?

[upbeat ivy]

i dont want minions

i want pure damaeg

damage*

[thin basin]

Both work for damage dpend on what type of build you wanna do

[vale heart]

how does temporalis work with ingenuity sup gem? how much -cd on temporalis do I need for 0 cd blink?

[upbeat ivy]

less minions

[thin basin]

No waya round it costing life, you can make it cost only life but itll double the cost

[thin basin]

Yes they are not minion ascendancy again depend on the build you want to do

Bloodmage have more crit

[sleek gazelle]

wdym??

[thorny token]

yea alternative is wait till patch notes and see

[thin basin]

Infernalist can pretty much do all builds cuz of demon form spell damage

[thorny token]

but i think even when nerfed it will prosb be still monk setup

but who knows

[thin basin]

Wasnt for you if you are asking

[sleek gazelle]

oh ok.

guys im lv 67 what mercenary build should i go for in endgame? im struggling with lighting

[slate harness]

Hey, anyone here who could take a look at my DD Titan skill tree and help me sort it out a bit better? Highly appreciated!

[dusk heart]

what's the lowest ingenuity belt you guys would buy? like 70% ?

[thin basin]

75% corrupted is 24d buy those

I bought a random 55 one for 20d spent 3d got 58 61 68

[thorny token]

50%+ is already worth buying

as rings have better stats than belts

[thin basin]

Im trying to roll 75+ and farm for more so i can corrupt them and keep one as a bakcup

[dusk heart]

I've got 18 div

seems like the most I can get atm is 68%

[plush flame]

Does arcane surge increased effect from the passive tree increase only the base value or also the bonus you get from ascendancy?

Former sounds too weak, the latter too strong

[thin basin]

Dont you just add them togteher

[thorny token]

yea you do, its same stat

[thin basin]

If you got 60% on tree and like 1500 mana 60% + 100%

[plush flame]

So it's additive, not multiplicative

[thorny token]

thats what it says yes

[plush flame]

It doesn't say anything of the sort

[thin basin]

Both are increase

[thorny token]

that is what "increased" means

[thin basin]

Not “more”

[thorny token]

and its same stat

[drifting cedar]

increase and reduce are always additive

less and more always multiplicative

[plush flame]

Thank you, a useful answer

[astral willow]

yup v good to know

[weary gale]

hello guys is orb of storms working with lightning skeletal minions? when they attacks orb attacks too with them?

[drifting cedar]

no, skeletons are you not you and orb says "when you use a lightning skill"

however, if the minions have an active skill that would likely trigger it once per use

[elder mural]

What would be my option to get Aoe Overkill other than the unique boots to make pack explode with shield charge ?

[weary gale]

thanks

[wintry lintel]

guys i need help ive blown almost all my money and my build sucks

[thin basin]

Saw carn use polcirkin? Ring with herald of ice for masive clear on warrior

[elder mural]

herald of ice require int

[peak acorn]

Does additional projectile work on spark ? Could use advice

[thorny token]

sure but its useless for spark

[drifting cedar]

it does work, but spark has plenty of projectiles yeah

[peak acorn]

Tnx guys

[runic creek]

Is there a best way to farm jewels as ssf?

just regular jewels

[drifting cedar]

hey, is flame wall the only source of added flat damage to spells in poe 2?

that would explain the lack of damage effectiveness for spells, but followup question: is freezing shards the only shotgunning projectile spell?

[thin basin]

Could just use lowest level and spec some str nodes over

[broken sluice]

im playing Witchhunter, is it better to do ar/ev or pure ev?

[drifting cedar]

probably pure ev at least after campaign at this point, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the armour formula reworked at some point

armour is pretty bad once you get into maps

[thin basin]

Yes but dont think its worth it, doesnt it shoot like 12 with quality

[broken sluice]

yeah I keep hearing armour is crap 😦

[thin basin]

Sanctum have those jewel chests if you can spam them

[feral valve]

can someone answer me a question about the gas arrow deadeye lvl build? they say i must go shield charge after a certain lvl, do i play then bow and shield?

[thorny token]

real shotgun? probably, but theres bunch of multihit spells

also yea dont think there is anything else other than flamewall

for flat

[thorny token]

and you want to use cloak of flame on witchhunter ideally anyway

and at that point you dont rly need armour in first place

assuming you are actually taking the sorcery ward

[drifting cedar]

added fire flat for lvl 30 flamewall x 10 = big freezing shards maybe?

[broken sluice]

probably not, just gonna stack EV and try to get Acrobatics working

[thorny token]

ah so just making bad deadeye then i guess

[broken sluice]

haha yeah

[drifting cedar]

flame wall does about the exact same flat damage at all levels as freezing shards. doubling its damage is probably not enough to make it big

[thorny token]

well flame wall does about triple damage of eow so can probs utilize it there

[shy root]

Are there any caster builds that could work in a HCSSF environment as a starter, or do most of them require specific gear to get started? I've only played attack builds thus far 🤔

[drifting cedar]

does eow being "ignited" by flame wall also cause its projectiles at the end to be "ignited"

or do you have to have flamewall under the end location

[formal mountain]

Between Maxroll and Mobalytics. which one is recommended for builds?

[thorny token]

it should work exaclty like poe1 but idk how it worked there :d

[drifting cedar]

same

[peak acorn]

Pbest with projectile speed

[thorny token]

just check both, site doesnt rly matter only build does

[drifting cedar]

i will say that gelid staff + flamewall feels very strong if doing a "naked" start for testing purposes, but without more ways to add flat idk

would have to use the fire > cold gloves for sure

also I don't believe freezing shards gets the shotgun projectile behavior where concurrent hits count as one hit, so no big ignite

[karmic siren]

hey guys, any infernalist witch that can help me with a question?
what's more important on a sceptre, bigger minion damage or bigger minion level? i mean is +4 level and +40% damage better than +3 level and +70% damage?

[hybrid ocean]

Is there any consistent way to self-apply a chill?

I'm trying to think of a way to extract value out of Sierran Inheritance

Maybe the stormweaver node that makes all damage contribute to chill + some source of self damage?

But idk where to reliably get that level of self damage, or if that even works

[plain cloud]

Hey, are there any good nodes/items to scale a Strength stacking/HP stacking build similar to Archmage and the Amulet that converts Mana to ES that synergizes with it ?

[static plinth]

Not yet

[thin basin]

Pillar is the only str stacking thing i think

Not much for hp stacking

Besides bloodmage

[hybrid ocean]

There's the one armour that gives yoy a %HP heal for each endurance charge consumed

And also all of the Beidat's nodes for infernalist

[noble inlet]

• minion is way more important

Minion level>Spirit>>>>anything else

[karmic siren]

thanks

[full zinc]

need a help. playing as minion summoner (arsonists) and struggle being in timer during Breachstone encounter. any minion infernalists here to provide an advice on how to increase clear speed. my setup was:
11 arsonists with scattershot - fire infusion - heft - feeding frenzy - concentrated effect. may be i should swap concentrated effect for acceleration?
was running without storm mage, as i strongly believe it won't help. may i be wrong?
gem levels like 19 + 9 from gear.

[elder mural]

WHat would be the best dmg output + aoe explosion on shield charge ? I was thinking stomping ground + armour explosion and then add dmg gems like heavy swing

I try to theory craft something around it, i feels like Infernal cry make us ignoring collision with the first target.

[drifting cedar]

corrupting cry is str stacking

[thin basin]

O yes thta too

Theres also some other support that trigger and deal dmg based on your stats also

I forgot about those

[drifting cedar]

theres the chaos dot one for int

[thin basin]

Iirc consume ailment to deal like 30-50% strength as fire damage or something like that

[nimble hound]

i havn't had much time to play and it seems too late to get into the game, or are there still "cheap" meta builds?

everything I see on youtube is like 10+ divines. I dont even ahve that many exalteds

seems pointless to even log in at this point

[drifting cedar]

oh right elemental discharge

but its just int i think

[thin basin]

Ah sad

[drifting cedar]

https://poe2db.tw/us/Burning_Inscription while looking for that support I found this that I've never seen any discussion about

odd support

runic inscription..things like bone blast?

[fleet blaze]

looking for a high clear build. i really wanna try something with DOT dmg. any suggestions? currently running polcirklen monk so I don't think anything will clear better than i currently do

[cursive lichen]

Here’s a nice way to think about it; a minion level gives minions a little less than a 20% damage bonus, as a multiplier. Meaning, the next level will be ~20% stronger everytime you give minions another level. On the other hand, a 40% damage increase is only an increase based on how many other % increases you already have. Say, your minions already have 400% increased damage from all other sources. Than another 40% is really just 10% more than what you already had, 400. So in this case, you’d want a minion level

[fervent lake]

Do heroic tragedy inherent bonuses stack with Gemling Passive?

[thin basin]

@thorny token thoughts on temporalist, elemental discharge, firewall, eye of winter int stack

or could do shock ground with lightning ball and lightning warp

[thorny token]

is that even good?

you cantrly freeze that much to trigger that no

[thin basin]

ignite from firewall

shock from shock ground

either one should work

only issue is how fast is the reaplication

[thorny token]

ah, for some reason thought the ignite one will be str :d

yea maybe its ok

[thin basin]

eow for crit and fast proc

[primal tide]

Hello, I'm a new player and nearly finished the game with a Monk, I'm losing my mind playing melee...

What's the most broken, braindead ranged class?

Imma do that

[drifting cedar]

consider that you need a different skill to apply the shock than the one consuming it

[topaz knoll]

is necromancer still amazing after nerf? any recommendations for builds as well

[thin basin]

yea shokc will be from shockground with ball lightning/ lightning warp OR firewall ignite

i will assume both wont work together maybe

[drifting cedar]

I don't see why they wouldn't work together aside from being more setup time

[thin basin]

we're looping our way back to archmage scaling mana/int

ill do some test and report back

[drifting cedar]

no idea about the ground affect reapplication speed or consuming those ailments in general. seems good though if it works. I was toying with ball lightning to discharge and orb of storms x3 limit to apply shocks

was clunky though

[thin basin]

now to farm a temporalist...

easy enough

[drifting cedar]

I wonder if the elemental discharge itself can be supported by archmage

[thin basin]

Ok it def can proc from firewall i need temporalist to see how fast it would proc

This could be peak

Whats the top end number for a stat stacker?

[tidal copper]

Does spell poison have future? Was thinking in comet poison

[thin basin]

Yes theres a glove that make all hits contribute to poison damage

There was a top reddit post about hexblast archmanastacker poison crit

[drifting cedar]

that glove is absolutely ridiculous and is just poised to become t0 or nerfed

[thorny token]

it really isnt

[drifting cedar]

no? does any phys or chaos based poison compete with it?

[thorny token]

yes

[thin basin]

Only op right now because of archmage really

[drifting cedar]

I fully assumed that it made tri - ele weapons the best option for poison as well, but yeah ive seen the archmage stuff

[tidal copper]

Archmage is op with everything I guess we'll see what's meta after the nerfs...

[thorny token]

it couldnt because tri ele weapons are just worse than phys weapons

[thin basin]

I actually want them to nerf archmage by like half but hopefully they leave the other stuff alone

[thorny token]

also it competes with snakebite

[drifting cedar]

and its a glove so no howa

alright yeah

not busted I guess, but i still dont trust it

[hazy olive]

does 100% increased energy shield recharge rate mean 25% energy shield per second?

[thin basin]

Glove slots is like onegaop in poe2 for 0 reason lol

[drifting cedar]

dont trust it to not create a busted dot cap poison build at some point in the future, i mean

[thorny token]

those already exist as phys builds and chaos builds rn

and if you wanted damage then using snakebite and osin is a lot more damage too

it just enables ele skills to poison and thats about it but then it just depends on the ele skills actually being strong and not the scaling

[drifting cedar]

gonna try artillery ballista poison, gonna suck

hey, I read that ele poison doesn't scale with %chaos damage, is that accurate?

[thorny token]

it is

[drifting cedar]

so if you have a mixture of ele and chaos, harder to scale

unless the chaos is extra as chaos, i guess, then just use ele damage

[thorny token]

yea you just scale the hit part like hit build pretty much

[thorny token]

the as extra also wont scale with the ele damage so same thing

[drifting cedar]

eh what? if you do 100 fire damage, 10% fire as extra chaos, and then get 100% increased fire damage you dont get 20 chaos damage?

[thorny token]

no

[drifting cedar]

chayula monk is worse than I thought

[static plinth]

What the fuck

[drifting cedar]

https://www.poe2wiki.net/wiki/Conversion#:~:text="Gain" conversion,-Gain conversion adds&text=Because conversion cannot be recursive,become 50 phys%2C 70 fire time for me to actually read this

[static plinth]

Chayula gets worse every time j learn something new about it

Next im gonna be told red and blue flames are reduced by leech resistance or something

[drifting cedar]

so you have to scale the delivery method, almost

attack damage, melee damage, projectile, weapon type etc

[tidal copper]

Why not

[drifting cedar]

read the conversion article there, it happens before increases and reductions

[thorny token]

because the conversion happens first

[tidal copper]

The extra damage as chaos is only extra base damage as chaos?

[thorny token]

pretty much, but it happens after local skill conversion happens at least

[tidal copper]

How unnecessarily complicated

[thorny token]

well its simpler than before

and less flexible sadly

[drifting cedar]

simpler but I'm not sure its more intuitive

I assume this also means that three dragons ignites using cold do not scale with fire damage

[thorny token]

correct

[tidal copper]

It doesn't make any sense!
My comet does 2000 after all the buffs and my extra damage as chaos is only 200 the fuck is going on

It's said 40%!

[drifting cedar]

its the after all the buffs bit

the buffs dont also apply to your chaos damage, likely

[crude kraken]

My brain small me dumb, does this mean that any spell itself will inflict the armour break?

If I have 0 sources of physical damage will that affect anything

or does this ONLY work with Physical damaging spells

[drifting cedar]

you need to do physical damage

[crude kraken]

Okay okay thank you

[drifting cedar]

you will still get the bleeding chance on hit if you are a blood mage with the elemental bleeding node

[crude kraken]

Ahhh okay

[hoary ingot]

wtf poison monk 🤑

[raw forge]

What are good gems to put on the arch mage skill if I’m running spark build? I have 3 slots with lightening mastery filling the first one

[thin basin]

Nothing else

Heh just essenced me a +5 lightning wand

Nothing else

[drifting cedar]

blue +5 lightning? nice

gl on slams

[thin basin]

Im selling

[proven rapids]

Im buying

[thin basin]

Or will i

Base as is is 9d

[drifting cedar]

but just imagine..

nah I'd sell it, im always broke buying meme items

[tidal copper]

Don't gamble kids

[thin basin]

Whats there to imagine, unless it roll high mana

[exotic locust]

what builds are range people playing?

[drifting cedar]

https://poe2db.tw/us/Greater_Essence_of_the_Mind basically says "big brain" in the name

so you know its the right move

[thin basin]

I ran 7 invites, got 1 staff followed by 6 boots, this wont get me

[dense tendon]

When I have one bolt in crossbow skill, does it make sense to use attack speed? Should I only scale reload speed?

[static plinth]

You still want attack speed so you fire that bolt faster

Im assuming this is one with a massive reload like Plasma Blast

[thorny token]

attack speed also scales reload speed pretty sure

so either way its good stat for you

[static plinth]

Also you can get reloads an extra bolt

[drifting cedar]

does it? i thought only skill speed or reload speed scaled reload

[tidal copper]

Someone look up the wiki

Wait

[thorny token]

skill speed isnt some magical stat its just both attack and cast speed

well also warcry speed and other shit i guess

but yea its easily testable with martial tempo and pretty sure it works

[hushed umbra]

Can Poison gas arrow inflict chaos damage from "deal x physical as chaos"?

[thorny token]

well the chaos will poison yes

[drifting cedar]

yeah I thought reload was one of the other things like totem placement speed

and presumably trap throwing speed in the future

[thorny token]

yea goes down when i socket martial tempo

(just to double confirm)

[atomic halo]

add it to wiki if it's not there already

[thorny token]

without martial tempo

[thorny token]

its there, was just kinda hidden so havent seen it first time

[drifting cedar]

oh nice, thanks for that

[hushed umbra]

So this should give every poison gas arrow tick a chance to poison for more?

[thorny token]

yea

[sage tulip]

Hello I was wondering if there was anyone on that has played Sorcerer that can give me some pointers to the spark build I see going around

[old shuttle]

https://mobalytics.gg/poe-2/profile/5dda85a9-13a2-47dd-81ed-52192b06d8d9/builds/4373192f-2ee0-4c3c-83cc-e307d5adadb3 i need a build doctor

idk wtf ive done but i feel SO useless

[upper viper]

damn confused me a bit when i saw two kalandra rings. 😂

[old shuttle]

yeah rings auto do that for some reason and cba fixing, its maxed all res 20 chaos res

bossing is the issue, mapping is more than fine

just getting one hit by bosses is the main issue

[upper viper]

Wish i could help, looking at it. Its a bit outta my knowlegde. Specially with hexblack.
What does your defence look like ?

[old shuttle]

i can blast t15 ++ breaches with ease

[thin basin]

Are you dodging? Looks fine to me

[old shuttle]

i mean idk man this is a lot

[elder prawn]

I'm a level 92 monk / invoker, first char, feel like I've hit a wall with my build and need to build more defense without losing power.. Could anyone help? Have my build laid out on MOBA

[old shuttle]

if i get hit i lose my mana so i cant eye of winter so i cant crit so i cant atziri leech

but without MoM i just get one hit

i feel like my tree is messed up somehow idk

[thin basin]

I didnt see the tree why are you mom build with 1.1k mana i assume u got life tap on hexblast

[vestal steppe]

does anyone know where i can see my shock chance/freeze buildup?

[old shuttle]

but like, i have: 203 life helm 200 life chest, 230 life belt, 300 life from rings, 121 life 9% max life neck

and still 3k life just feels sad

[old shuttle]

cause i was just getting one tapped by bosses, thought itd help, did not

maybe i should have tankiness invested in better ways

[stark shell]

Can some body give me a build guide for sorc that makes comets fall on enemies? I really like the look of it, if possible with an early guide 😊

[old shuttle]

comet needs like, level 55

no?

[thin basin]

I personally dont think you should be clicking mom without eb

[thin atlas]

what's the deal with accuracy and area hits? Sunder's quality gives reduced accuracy penalty at range, but I thought that since it's a Melee Area hit that it doesn't use accuracy at all, since the evasion tooltip says it can only evade Strikes and Projectiles

along those lines, does something like Artillery Ballista need accuracy, since it's a Projectile (but also area?)

[atomic halo]

all attacks use accuracy

[thin basin]

But to do that youll need to drop either the helmet or the amulet for the es conversion unique

[atomic halo]

i think evasion is different between you and enemies or something

because all strikes have aoe now

[old shuttle]

but that conversion bugs probably being fixed on patch update

[thin basin]

Ive also heard something about scaling life with that one helmet to get both es and hp super high

[thin atlas]

the fact that this specifically calls Strikes and Projectiles out confuses me

[old shuttle]

which helm?

the 50% more max life no res?

[atomic halo]

thats for player evasion, not enemy (confusing ik)

[still rock]

ES

[atomic halo]

your slams can still miss

[still rock]

Thats the only serviceable defense in endgame rn

[old shuttle]

yeah maybe i just need to upgrade my gear as well

more raw es may be enough

[still rock]

life is not scalable unless youre titan

so just go es

[old shuttle]

i mean i gotta scale life im blood mage else why play the class

but yeah also gotta scale es or ill just pop like a baloon

[still rock]

to crit

im not saying dont get any life but its futile to try and scale it without es

and expensive

especially when grim feast is so silly rn

[thin basin]

https://poe2db.tw/us/Atziris_Disdain

Scsle life and es

[still rock]

yeah

[thin basin]

Also click mom and eb i guess if you want to

[still rock]

eb sounds shit with new conversion

ngl

you want the es

[old shuttle]

im assuming the convert bug will be fixed soon

[still rock]

what bug

[static plinth]

Ghostwrithe CI?

[old shuttle]

you can still have es with EB lmao

[static plinth]

Thats intended

Otherwise you'd have infinite mana/es with Everlasting Gaze

[still rock]

oh weird

[old shuttle]

hmm maybe

but idk

[still rock]

why is that intended tho it says converts all es

[old shuttle]

i feel like Ghostwrithe, Life tap, Everlasting gaze and Atziris disdain are all weird rn

[atomic halo]

thats just how new conversion rules work

it's consistent, at least

but weird asf

[static plinth]

If you convert ES to mana and gain ES based off mana you have infinite ES and Mana

[still rock]

gain effects are supposed to come before conversion

[static plinth]

Ghostwrithe CI is the only one i see getting changed cuz thats extra jank

[still rock]

so its most likely bugged

[static plinth]

Theyre the same step arent they, thats why you cant convert Archmage to cold or w/e

[echo yoke]

does "5% increased Attributes per Socketed Rune or Soul Core" mean it + all attribute or multiply?

[old shuttle]

i guess ill wait til the patch, if none of those items get changed i guess im become an accidental ES stacking sheep with a blood mage build

and at the point may just wait for life to ya know, be useful

[still rock]

all of my understanding of gain x% is that it comes before conversion

[old shuttle]

instead of abusing some weird conversion of es to mana then mana to ES

[drifting cedar]

and the actual broken bit where you count as full life and low life at the same time

[tidal copper]

whats this staff good for? https://poe2db.tw/us/The_Burden_of_Shadows

[drifting cedar]

but yeah ghostwrithe definitely needs to not be the best ES chest

[old shuttle]

thats just a dumb LL wording bug

[static plinth]

Killing yourself i guess

[old shuttle]

its less than or equal to, instead of less than

[static plinth]

You can get costs up to 2k life cost on skills

So nuclear bombs

[median kraken]

You got a source for that, because they're consistently coming after conversion right now and I haven't seen any reason to think that's unintentional

[static plinth]

To both you and the enemy

[thin basin]

Bloodmage mom archmage manastacker lifestacker 700 life cost spell nuke

[static plinth]

Blood Mage and the staff together cause life costs to double lol

[tidal copper]

If you can DoT with the skill you could get a double KO and it sounds like the funniest idea in a while

[thin basin]

Yea

Hence nuke

[old shuttle]

also i hope they either fix the hexblast vid or fix hexblast

[static plinth]

I think the ideal is spell totems but Dark Effigy aint it

[drifting cedar]

or orbs, maybe

use orb of storms with the staff on swap, then spam spark or w/e

get the chaos damage many times for one cost

[still rock]

just from poe1, what other sources come after conversion?

[static plinth]

Oh real

[still rock]

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Receiving_damage

but maybe its changed

[tidal copper]

Does that work? Orb of storm nuking for 1 million sounds like a plan

[still rock]

i just didn't account for it changing

[drifting cedar]

don't see why it wouldn't

[static plinth]

Only problem is no + spell levels sucks

[drifting cedar]

yeah. its definitely not something id expect to just work out of the box

but maybe has potential

[static plinth]

Maybe Firestorm would work

Thats an overtime thing right

[drifting cedar]

it is, havent looked at it in this game

[still rock]

firestorm sucks

unless you have like 0 aoe

[tidal copper]

Any overtime has potential for the staff
but lighting archmage sounds like the obivious way

[drifting cedar]

its just a worse way to do archmage very likely is the unfortunate reality

[tidal copper]

Worse if you dont want to die dramatically as you nuke the boss

[static plinth]

The more things change the more they stay the same

[median kraken]

Conversion in general is extremely different in PoE2 than it is in PoE1. A lot of mechanics in PoE2 you can use PoE1 damage and it works fine but I don't think conversion is one of them

Besides scaling working differently, in PoE1 conversion all goes in a specific order and damage can be converted multiple times. In PoE2 damage conversion doesn't only go in one direction.

I may be wrong, but in PoE2 the conversion step seems to be "All conversion simultaneously, then all damage added as extra simultaneously" compared to PoE1 when it kind of goes one damage type at a time

[drifting cedar]

https://www.poe2wiki.net/wiki/Conversion#:~:text="Gain" conversion,-Gain conversion adds&text=Because conversion cannot be recursive,become 50 phys%2C 70 fire

this is worth a read

the whole page, really

[old shuttle]

im still like 80% sure some of the items i mentioned will get fked with

it seems so weird and sketchy

converting you big ES into bigger mana. into an even bigger ES

[still rock]

it cant be simultaneously, either gain extra is before or after converted as

[atomic halo]

it makes it sound like conversion is a 1 step process but built-in damage conversion from skills still applies before other types of conversion

[still rock]

if its after then it's different than poe 1

[drifting cedar]

I would be shocked if ghostwrithe wasn't changed

[still rock]

this makes it more complicated yea

adding in attack phys conversion

[old shuttle]

for attacks i think its simple

its:
Base weapon stats -> convert -> increase -> more

i think

[median kraken]

It's after, I said that

[still rock]

Yeah it seems like it is

[median kraken]

True

[drifting cedar]

they are talking about just conversion order I think

wherein skill based conversion happens before other conversions

[old shuttle]

ah i see

[drifting cedar]

for example, if you had 100% phys to cold conversion and were using something like perfect strike, you'd still do 80% fire and 20% cold despite having 80% phys to fire and 100% phys to cold

[still rock]

so would it be
attack conversion -> converted as -> gain extra as?

rn

[median kraken]

I guess I haven't fully tested it. If you have both Call of the Brotherhood and Whisper of the Brotherhood, do your cold and lightning damage just swap? That's what I'd expect.

[atomic halo]

the conversion happens at the same time as the gain as does it not

[still rock]

it cant happen at the same time

[drifting cedar]

it can't for things that specify damage type

not sure when it happens

[atomic halo]

oh yeah that

but for stuff like es

[median kraken]

No. ES converted to mana with EB will give extra ES from Everlasting Gaze

[static plinth]

Cold becomes lightning and lightning becomes cold

They dont feed into eachother

[median kraken]

That's what I thought

In PoE1 conversions could feed into each other, which was why conversion only went in one direction

[atomic halo]

doesnt that support what i said

[drifting cedar]

I think we are potentially discussing two things at once in here

[atomic halo]

doesnt skill conversion applying first contradict that

[median kraken]

No, it supports gain as coming after conversion.

[drifting cedar]

no

well, sort of

[atomic halo]

cant i go phys -> cold , cold-> light

[drifting cedar]

no

[atomic halo]

for example painter's servant gloves

[upper viper]

With eldrith battery and Everlasting gaze

[upper viper]

with out amulet. and with eldrig battery

[drifting cedar]

regarding skill based

nice and confusing

[atomic halo]

if i have phys-> cold skill and wear painter's servant doesnt part of my phys go phys->cold->light

[old shuttle]

HUH

[drifting cedar]

as I understand it, no

converted damage can never be then converted again

[atomic halo]

what

ok

[drifting cedar]

I don't have those gloves atm for testing

[old shuttle]

yeah my mace strike with X infusion isnt getting affected by brotherhood rings

[atomic halo]

oh it says non-converted damage

i didnt see that

[drifting cedar]

gain as X is also considered a form of conversion now and AFAIK you cant convert that either

[old shuttle]

but yeah it seems like after infusing them, which is a convert, stuff like Brotherhood and Painters arent doing anything

[still rock]

so where is the order then

what if you have hypothetically 100phys to cold and also 100phys to fire

[drifting cedar]

thats overconversion

https://www.poe2wiki.net/wiki/Conversion

[still rock]

but which gets normalized first

[atomic halo]

it gets scaled down to 50/50

[drifting cedar]

really, read this

[still rock]

i just did lol

[old shuttle]

yeah i think conversion gets scaled to be out of 100

[atomic halo]

reading is hard 😔

[atomic halo]

mb i misunderstood it

why is this more confusing than poe1

[old shuttle]

it got made simpler c:

smile

[drifting cedar]

it doesn't matter unless one source is from the skill

then that one is first

[median kraken]

Because we're having trouble shaking how we expect it to work based on PoE1

[still rock]

but one of them has to be first

[drifting cedar]

no they dont

[raw hamlet]

Hey, what happens if you improve weapon skill gem? is the improvement gone if you unequip the item?

[old shuttle]

can you underconvert? or will it do like how it do with overconvert?

[drifting cedar]

they both happen at the same time, normalized to be out of 100

[median kraken]

We've spent years building up an intuition for PoE1 mechanics and that intuition for conversion is all wrong

[drifting cedar]

so you get 50/50

[median kraken]

What do you mean?

[drifting cedar]

underconvert as in just partial conversion?

[old shuttle]

wait true idk how tf youd underconvert lmao

[drifting cedar]

i mean what

[still rock]

oh so its scaled to a ratio of 100 always

[median kraken]

If you convert less than 100% then sole damage just stays as the original type

[still rock]

if overconverted

[drifting cedar]

yes

[still rock]

got it

[old shuttle]

yeah if you have painters gloves vaaled to 40/40/40

its like it didnt get corrupted at all

[median kraken]

It would technically be a little bit different if you combined it with other sources of conversion

[old shuttle]

i dont think so

after its converted it cant be converted

[drifting cedar]

he means like, if you had 100% cold to fire or something it would skew the ratio for cold

but not in a really meaningful or useful way that I can think of

[old shuttle]

idk im just sad they fucked with charges

i really wanted to do a discharge quack build

but now charges are just orb but blue green and red

[low swallow]

hi all, new to this type of game, i was following a guide for passive tree from kaidgames and i'm level 69 but my build sucks, the dps is ass. Anyone got a build i can respec into? i'm a stormweaver

[old shuttle]

you probably didnt follow a levelling build

and instead tried to just copy a build someone was using for endgame

[thin basin]

Kaidgames noooo 😭

[old shuttle]

either that or a classic yt shitter build idk

[low swallow]

possibly was the case lol, i'm level 69 and my spark does 1600 dps...

i feel a respec is drastically needed but i'm clueless

[old shuttle]

a screenshot would be great

cause if youre tree looks like this your probs effed

[low swallow]

https://mobalytics.gg/poe-2/profile/98800fe4-5cfe-47e5-a0ee-40611679b379/builds/fad81173-e4d3-4b32-a006-f6527e2d152e?weaponSet=set1 this was the guide

[old shuttle]

ah yeah youre just using an endgame specced build without the endgame gear

early game energy shield is meh, damage is good

[thin basin]

94 yeboy

[still rock]

do you have +spells

at all

[old shuttle]

as you get on your gear will have damage on it, so your skill tree + dmg is less impactful

so you wanna change it to energy shield

so basically stuff like this

damage good

[low swallow]

so i have a resonable staff but thats about it

[old shuttle]

Wand + Focus >>>>>>> Staff

[still rock]

does it have + spells

literally +spells is like so giga more important than any other stat

[low swallow]

+3 to spells, i was using wand and focus but this staff overall was better than my wand focus combo so swapped

[elder mural]

How can you apply Burning to detonate compose without using a bow

[still rock]

+3 is low for a staff

[low swallow]

and 118% spell damage

[old shuttle]

something like this can give you a hella dps boost early on

[low swallow]

my gear is very poor lol

so i've just finished cruel and onto where i would be mapping now i think?

[still rock]

just buy a crap +4 wand and +2 focus grom trade

[wet mango]

Wait why not? I think gain as does come after, but I see no reason it couldn't come at the same time (which is how I initially thought it worked)

[old shuttle]

also oh look the 3 items with convert in them in the same build hmmm

[low swallow]

is this in game? or are trades arranged elsewhere

[thin basin]

love me some rituals

[still rock]

because if it specifies a value type it either comes before, after, or before and after

[low swallow]

sorry for all the questions

[drifting cedar]

yeah the helm and body armour are almost guaranteed to get nerf/fixed imo

[wet mango]

Yes that's correct I believe

[still rock]

but it comes after it seems now

[elder mural]

How can u apply burn without a bow ? Just need Burn to detonate poison cloud

[median kraken]

Flame wall

[old shuttle]

oh nice stone citadel

[median kraken]

Incinerate

[drifting cedar]

why is that correct? I thought conversion was one time only? or does skill conversion allow secondary conversion specifically?

[old shuttle]

if you didnt know stone citadel north east of there

[dim yacht]

How well does leeches #% from physical damage as mana do if most my damage is put into lightening? My damage is INSANE but my sustain needs work.

[thin basin]

Yes everything is already full cleared im just spamming rituals

[drifting cedar]

leech only from the phys portion you deal, not from the lightning portion

[old shuttle]

:c i need stone citadel as my last one

[wet mango]

I don't understand. You can definitely have 2 conversations happen simultaneously, so gain as can happen simultaneously as conversion

[thin basin]

11 or so citadel, failed like 3 due to 1 shot on the way

[dim yacht]

So i need to find my sustain against bosses somewhere else. Thank you.

[wet mango]

In fact iron reflexes + generals binding suggests they do happen simultaneously

[old shuttle]

i just want the stupid listed crit damage bug to get fixed too

i probably have way too much crit damage invested on my build

[still rock]

what happens when you take both

[old shuttle]

i have 3 k life, i guess thats only like 100% inc crit dmg

[wet mango]

(but if course EB + EG suggests gain as comes after)

[drifting cedar]

so how ar eyou converting phys to light then using painter gloves to convert again?

is the wiki wrong here?

[old shuttle]

if i use lightning conversion painters gloves and the brotherhood rings do NOTHING

as a btw

[drifting cedar]

yeah thats what I thought happened. one time conversion hard rule

[old shuttle]

mind you thats on mace strike

[still rock]

is there an order then for which conversion takes priority?

[wet mango]

Cotb converts fire attacks to cold I believe

[old shuttle]

not on soemthing like ice strike

[thin basin]

they gotta improve the rate on these a little bit

[still rock]

or always just overconversion if from gear and passives

[wet mango]

Yeah those are both item conversion, skill conversion comes first

[old shuttle]

i thought it was a 1/8 no?

[drifting cedar]

can anyone test this?

[old shuttle]

whats cotb?

the ring ye

which fire attack

[wet mango]

You get 108% of Eva as AR, then ev goes to 0

[drifting cedar]

well cotb is lightning to cold anyway

[old shuttle]

i think those will work, cause skill "convert" is different

[wet mango]

Any (explosive shot for example)

[wet mango]

Sorry, blue something bracers

[drifting cedar]

can anyone with cotb or the fire > cold gloves test those on a skill with inherent conversion

[wet mango]

This should work with galvanic

[drifting cedar]

my understanding is that it will not convert the already converted portion

if skill based conversion can then be converted we need to add that to the wiki

[olive compass]

Anyone tested bullwark? Wonder when to use it

[astral willow]

dodge roll barely avoid dmg anyway

[tidal copper]

Does this work if i have Eldritch battery and i use energy shield

[wet mango]

? This doesn't address what I was talking about

[old shuttle]

and yes, having both gloves + ring just messes with the weighting, making it 66/33

[crude kraken]

What does higher magnitude do for ailments like chill?

[still rock]

im even more confused now lol, this same rule doesnt apply to EB and gaze?

[wet mango]

No, modifiers come after conversion (that at least we all agree on)

[thin basin]

Higher chill

[crude kraken]

Is it just some monsters/bosses have higher thresholds to not be affected by the chill?

[old shuttle]

so it goes:
Weapon base damage -> skill listed "convert" -> [Skills socketed conversions -> Item/other conversion] -> rest

[wet mango]

No, the es gained as extra from eg include the additional mana from EB conversion

[crude kraken]

Ahh okay

[drifting cedar]

it does when combined with "you can't convert twice"

[still rock]

So are you implying EG interaction is bugged in that it doesn't happen simultaneously?

[wet mango]

The slow %

[old shuttle]

skill convert isnt convert i guess

[atomic halo]

have we reached any conclusions

[still rock]

No it sounds all over the place tbh

[wet mango]

Nowhere does it say you can't convert twice

[atomic halo]

or are we more confused than when we started

[drifting cedar]

so..it does work for skill based conversion

[low swallow]

@old shuttle would this be a better build for me to follow? https://mobalytics.gg/poe-2/builds/asmodeus-leveling-archemage?widgets-state=eyJmN2Q4MjEwMi03ZTc3LTRhNDQtYWQyNC0zM2I2N2U4YWU3YmYiOnsiZmlsdGVycyI6eyJhY3RpdmVWYXJpYW50SWQiOiIzM2MxMWNjYi0zOGM5LTQwMzAtYTllOC1iODIyZmM2NmZkMGQifSwidHlwZW5hbWUiOiJOZ2ZEb2N1bWVudENtV2lkZ2V0Q29udGVudFZhcmlhbnRzVjEifX0

[old shuttle]

it states it here

[old shuttle]

i have

idk if the others have xd

[wet mango]

I'm implying there's something different going on. Could be passive/skill conversion/gainas > item conversion/gainas

[old shuttle]

i guess it helps i have the CotB and the gloves

[wet mango]

You're quoting the wiki

Not the game

[old shuttle]

the wiki is right

[wet mango]

Wiki is written by people

[old shuttle]

you cant convert multiple times

i tried a second ago

[still rock]

I originally thought the new system was going to be more simple but it seems like there are cases where its not following the rules as other cases so it'd be nice to get a dev clarification on how it's supposed to function otherwise we cant accurately report things as bugs

[wet mango]

You can with skills

[atomic halo]

i always thought gain as extra was just conversion that didnt remove from the previous type

[drifting cedar]

my whole conversation here is deciding if the wiki is right or needs to be amended. these rules aren't mentioned in the game at all

[wet mango]

Yes, that's how it (should) work

[old shuttle]

you can try yourself, if you have something like Cold infusion with Cold -> lightning the Cold -> lightning will NOT work

[atomic halo]

it's good, until you look at non-damage conversion and skill priority conversion

[wet mango]

Correct, and I'm suggesting wiki is wrong

[still rock]

agreed

[old shuttle]

the wiki is right it just doesnt mention that the skill "conversion" isnt counted in the one conversion rule

[drifting cedar]

appears to be wrong for skill based conversion, or at least missing that info. appears to be rightr for other conversion

[wet mango]

#1321237459987726366 message

I wrote this whole thing here

[wet mango]

I mean skill conversion is conversion

[drifting cedar]

no, it happens before others

i mean, its different

[old shuttle]

i literally took screenshots

[wet mango]

Yes, it happens before others, I would still call it conversion and not "conversion"

It's literally a form of conversion

[drifting cedar]

it has very different rules

[old shuttle]

if you use something like Fire infusion ( a convert support gem) then you will not be able to convert with any items afterwards

[sage tulip]

Would it be possible to do a sort of spell crit build cause I looked up uniques and found a few interesting items that actually pair very well in that sense.

[old shuttle]

BUT if you use a skill that lists conversion, you can afterwards convert more with items

[wet mango]

That's not skill inherent conversion

That's happening at the same time as other conversion

[old shuttle]

no it is not

skill support gems go earlier than items

[drifting cedar]

i dont know that that's the case

[wet mango]

??

Strong Disagree

[drifting cedar]

I think its just skill > everything else

[old shuttle]

.

using fire and ice infusion the cotb rings have NO affect

[drifting cedar]

I think all that needs to happen here is we add skill based converted damage being capable of being subsequently converted to the wiki

[tidal copper]

So if you want to use gain damage as chaos
You will scale chaos dmg yes?

[drifting cedar]

if you just want to scale the gain part yes

[old shuttle]

that and the skills listed "converts phys to 60% fire" is not counted in the "can convert once" rules

[tidal copper]

i mean if you do fire into chaos
Scaling fire wont scale the chaos gain so its "wasted"

[drifting cedar]

if the goal is to increase the chaos damage, yes

[wet mango]

There is no "convert once" rule if you just implement it as "all conversion (except skill) happens simultaneously"

"convert once" is a consequence of the happening simultaneously

Not a rule that gets tracked

[drifting cedar]

hmm

how does that work if you have, for example, 100% fire to cold and 100% cold to lightning

[old shuttle]

that seems incredibly like splitting hairs. if so why does cotb have zero change to the skill after using infusion

[wet mango]

? Did you use fire infusion in that pic? Can't tell

There's no fire damage

[old shuttle]

maybe was cold lightning my b

same point either way

[wet mango]

Both on items? Fire dmg becomes cold, not lightning

[old shuttle]

using infusion into cotb has no change from cotb

[wet mango]

Because they happen simultaneously

[wet mango]

What items are you using

And supports

[old shuttle]

mace strike, ice conversion, whisper

[wet mango]

Oh not Cotb

[old shuttle]

whisper is NOT converting

[drifting cedar]

tracks. and gain as extra is considered as happening in the same moment and is therefore not converted?

[upper viper]

Is it only wands, that works with spark ?

[old shuttle]

i can use lightning infuse CotB if you want

[wet mango]

Correct.... Infusion is not skill conversion

So they happen simultaneously

Are people misunderstanding what I mean by simultaneously

Is that the issue

[old shuttle]

sad blood mage noise

[wet mango]

If you have fire dmg (say a spell for simplicity), and you have 100% fire to cold and 100% cold to lightning, conversion happening simultaneously means the cold to lightning does not see the result of fire to cold

So you end up with cold dmg

[drifting cedar]

I think the confusion is around two things. one, that gain as extra is considered a type of conversion or at least happens irrespective of conversion. two, that skill implicit conversion happens before and can then be converted again

also, the wiki wording could be a bit more clear which I'm going to work on here

[agile meteor]

Is there any good temporalis Gemling legionare build?

[drifting cedar]

thanks for explaining it all

[fading wraith]

is there an eagle/falcon/hawk skill gem for rangers?

[wet mango]

Yes, this was always clear from the in game tooltip on damage conversion, which is why I was surprised when the wiki missed that

[wet mango]

Yes this tracks with everything I said

[upper viper]

Do a mana stacker 😄
Than you can use archmage

[fading wraith]

i think in POE1 there was a raven one... i'm hoping they, or cooler, birbs are in POE2 as well :o

[old shuttle]

le toucan gang

[still rock]

havent seen any toucans yet

[old shuttle]

incorrect

flip the levers kronk

and he will arrive!

[still rock]

get down mrs obama

[fading wraith]

you're joking right?

[old shuttle]

G A N G

[wet mango]

In fact this contradicts what you said here #2┃build-planning message

[old shuttle]

i was saying that with the assumption of converts once

which is the same functionally

just different verbiage

oh damn

[upper viper]

talk about perfect placement of icon

[still rock]

whisper isnt converting not because of "convert once" but because you aren't doing any lightning damage to be converted since gain extra happens from the source at the same time (if im understanding the situation right)

[old shuttle]

ye ye

it shotguns the conversions all at once, doesnt do it once, then check, then again, then check

[hollow ridge]

Does anyone know if melting maelstrom requires simulacrum tier 4?

[old shuttle]

if its 100/100/100 (fire lightning cold) and it reads converrts fire to cold and cold to lightning itll just go 0/100/200

[wet mango]

Right, which ges back to my point of "converting once" isnt an axiomatic rule, it s a consequence of all happening at he same time (except for skill conversion)

[still rock]

Is there another instance to test for the interaction between passive node conversion and gain as extra from an item (a la EB and gaze)

like avatar of fire and a gain extra as fire or something

[wet mango]

0/200/100?

[still rock]

if it works like eb and gaze then hypothetically youd gain more fire damage in some cases

[old shuttle]

ah fk maybe

idk im sick and tired

but yea 0/200/100

[wet mango]

Should have 200 light (base and cold convert)

[old shuttle]

im just ill rn so brain juice aint pumping

[wet mango]

Get ready for even more fuckery: leather bound gauntlets + IR

Wearing pure evasion gloves

LBG sees the gauntlets as having armour (due to IR), gives you extra evasion, which is then converted to Armour (via IR)

(things I learned as armour stacking merc)

[still rock]

tf

lmao

[drifting cedar]

So..short blurb for the wiki potentially.

Conversion happens in two stages.

The first stage checks for any inherent skill-based conversion, which always applies before other conversion from other sources such as ascendancies, passive points, and items. If there is no skill-based conversion, damage moves to the second stage.

The second stage applies all types of conversion, including "Gain as X" conversion simultaneously. Since this conversion all occurs at once, only the base damage leftover from the first stage is considered and therefore damage can not be converted more than once in the second stage.

@wet mango that look good?

[still rock]

so conversion for defences from gear actually changes the item itself for things that check for defenses on the gear

thats fucky

[old shuttle]

wonder if that will also be messed with. i feel like gear stat conversion rn are being a little... extra

[thin basin]

Need an example

[old shuttle]

yeah an example would be good. i think big 2 good ones would be CotB + Infusion

and just a generic standard convert

[hardy raptor]

Hey guys is explosive shot with howa better than lightning with howa? Im new and I want to concrete choose a build to stick to but theres so many lol also with the lightning(IE the shockburst and galv I believe?) DOES that build use Howa? Is that the Three Dragons version? So confused lol

[dusky lily]

Hello ! Im new on the discord i have a level 18 witch and i saw a build with fire wall and a poison gaz from archers. But they don't create poison normaly right ? I don't know how to create this.. Thanks 🙂

[old shuttle]

so:
100 Physical damage weapon. Converted to 60% fire giving - 40 phys, 60 fire.
Then using 100% fire to lightning conversion ending with
40 phys 60 lightning damage

and:
Infusing causing a 100 phys dmg skill to do 75 lightning and 0 phys, with 100% lightning to cold convert will end with 75 lightning. Cause the 100 phys at the start is what is being checked.

something like that but worded better and using the correct way that infusion works cause i cant remember the numbers on that skill xd lmao

[woven vine]

alright fam I am trying to find a staff that is close to this I am still trying to figure out how I go about searching for this kind of staff on the trade site without it saying nothing can be found.

[old shuttle]

youre probably just being too specific with your search

just toss in + lvl skills then organise by pdps

[woeful tinsel]

Looking for ideas on early game HC defense. I’ve been trying out ES/Evasion but one shots punch right through es at sub 25. Debating switching to an armor evasion hybrid instead and stacking max life

[old shuttle]

yeah youre being too specific

[marble moss]

I just finished the campaign. I am wondering when I should change my build from a starter build guide to a end game build guide

[woven vine]

I am new to POE I have no idea waht PDPS is

[wet mango]

Idk what you mean by "base damage leftover from the first stage"

[old shuttle]

physical damage per second

[still rock]

You have the wrong affix selected

[still rock]

you want adds # to # physical damage

not to attacks

[worn prawn]

hello guys, any pro Spark mage here? i need some upgrade https://maxroll.gg/poe2/planner/b12l09t3 only 15k spark dmg 😦

[still rock]

and the same for cold

[wet mango]

?? Infusion + Cotb causes us to have 100 phys 25 light

[still rock]

they need to add (Local) to the trade site again, looks like we're using a few yr old fork of the site

[woven vine]

ok? I am sorry but I am trying to figure out what you mean I changed the physical damage

[still rock]

you have "adds # to # physical damage to attacks" in your screenshot, you need "adds # to # physical damage"

they are different affixes

[woven vine]

omg thank you

that worked

[still rock]

the former is for gloves and rings

[woven vine]

now if I want to add the melee skill and increased attack speed they are from gloves and rings?

[still rock]

on the current trade site there are two different increased attack speed worded exactly the same

[woven vine]

oh no I understand what you are saying

[still rock]

so if you try one and get no result then try the other one

[woven vine]

sorry I understand thank you so much

honestly you have been a great deal of healp

help*

[still rock]

ideally one would say (Local) next to it like the current poe1 trade site does

but it doesn't

[woven vine]

this is my first time playing a game like this I played the littlest amount of D4 with some friends but never played POE1 or any other Diablo's

[sage tulip]

@worn prawn well right at the look you don’t have cast on shock. How much shock are you doing ?

[worn prawn]

yupp dont have spirit 😦

[wet mango]

If you wanna stick that blurb in the talk page I'll take a look this afternoon

[drifting cedar]

trying to refer to the output base damage from skill inherent conversion which can then be converted again. will change leftover to output

[still rock]

The only thing in this case you need to know is that the affix you are searching for on the quarterstaff whats called a "Local" affix, which means it only affects the damage of the weapon itself in this case. The phrasing of "to attacks" for the affixes on rings and gloves are not local

And additionally there is "increased attack speed" on weapons, which is local, and "increased attack speed" on gloves, which is not local (because gloves dont have an attack time to modify)

[sage tulip]

That’s your issue armor itself can have a increase to spirit up to 61 or the unique chest piece for 100

[wet mango]

Yeah I would generally just avoid "base" since it can be misunderstood

[sage tulip]

@worn prawn also I would personally go with blasphemy to turn your curse into an aura and boost its radius so you don’t have to constantly cast it as that would be one less rotational spell.

[still rock]

"Source" damage might be more clear

[wet mango]

There's the "base (orig)" dmg, and "(new) base dmg (post skill conversion)"

[wet mango]

I think source has the same problem

[still rock]

could say pre-conversion damage and post-conversion damage

[wet mango]

First, skill inherent conversion is applied. Then, all other conversion/gain as is applied simultaneously.

There, Avoid talking about source/base

[sage tulip]

@worn prawn I play a lightning merc and all my other abilities are cast on shock so while firing my cross bow I am casting arc,shock,and lightning orb once the shock builds up enough for it to trigger cast on shock.

[worn prawn]

dont know my shoch % 😄 and blasph need same 60 spirtiz 😦 my arcmage reserved my all 100

[woven vine]

one last silly question I am lvl 67 about to get to endgame I am nearly done Act 3 Cruel could I now get an endgame staff and not have to worry about swapping it out?

[drifting cedar]

yeah that seems good.

[still rock]

youll probably swap later on but itd be fine to buy something cheap to get you there

[woven vine]

when you say cheap you mean Ex orbs and not Divine right lol

?

[wet mango]

Again, sticks blurb with examples in the talk page
I'll look after I eat this burrito

[sage tulip]

@worn prawn well try a different gear set or a slightly different build I have several items that give spirit to the point my lightning merc has 241 spirit and I have 2 heralds, blasphemy and other supports and I still have 15 spirit left over.

[woven vine]

I have 3 Divin orbs cause a homie game me them

[still rock]

yes, look to spend like 5-10ex on something now and then spend more later on a higher level base

the expert bases require like around character level 77

[drifting cedar]

the discussion page on the conversion article? sure

ill use the cotb example which was tested earlier

[still rock]

i want a burrito

[sage tulip]

So it’s not to hard to get a decent stack of spirit with the right items. All depends if you want to constantly do a rotation or have the system itself do it for you, the longer you can keep attacking your main skill the more dps you can dish out. That dps shown would be the dps if you constantly only fired that one attack but if your doing a rotation you aren’t putting out your maximum potential.

[drifting cedar]

actually i mentioned this in the poe 2 wiki discord and it looks like someone is making the edits now

[cyan violet]

path exile 2, which build is better witch bloodmage or the infernalist demonic possession with barrier invocation build?

[wet mango]

Oh can you drop me a link btw

Didn't realize there was a separate wiki

[wet mango]

You can link them this post too haha
#1321237459987726366 message

[cobalt ridge]

What do yall think of my new build? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07lSC9-wee4

[drifting cedar]

messaged, i think linking external discords is auto removed in chat here

[thorny token]

btw for the skill conversion, currently its either bugged or intentional but local as extra on skills isnt applied before rest even though it should be based on their own rules

[cold dagger]

I've seen people saying that armor is broken and basically does nothing. Is it so broken I should only go for evasion and energy shield or still get armor?

[drifting cedar]

what skills have their own as extra?