2┃build-planning

[warped jackal]

i thought there was no leech on spells

[proper pagoda]

Curses like flam and exposure combine right and can take res negative. Like if flam gives you -50 and exposure gives u -50 and mob has 75 res you would put it to -25 correct?

[ancient geyser]

correct

only pen cannot go to negative

[broken tartan]

for this skill:

[snow sierra]

Atm we dont know of any source of mana leech on spells

you could go bloodmage and just spend hp to cast tho

[fading ether]

With eternal youth and Enduring elixirs it means i can have energy sheild regeneration up all the time?

[sinful spade]

bloodmage is HP and mana to cast

need bloodmagic to make it just HP

[modern tangle]

We know a couple of physical attack mana leech sources atm, that's about it currently. There is likely to be an attack leech modifier for weapons but who knows if it works for non-phys. The itemization is largely unknown.
The basic way to sustain mana is stacking regen bonuses. On the other hand, support gems in this search suggest various different ideas to help with mana sustain: https://poe2db.tw/us/Support_Gems?filter=mana

[hoary bolt]

yeah flask recovery, which isnt technically regen

[snow sierra]

Or the support gem ? if they didnt nerf it

[hoary bolt]

as long as you can sustain the flask charges it should be good

[fading ether]

alright

[dusty bear]

gain %of damage as extra... will follow the same rules as poe1?

[sinful spade]

lifetap or whatever it was called is listed on poedb and seems to still work largely the same, so that should work

[sour basin]

do we know if we can interact/modify the mace or skills in the mace or does this duplicate the mace we have?

[hoary bolt]

it uses its own weapon independent of yours

visually? no idea

[sour basin]

can we modify it at all or is it preset?

[hoary bolt]

wdym by modify

[modern tangle]

We don't know. It's probably fair to say that poe2 conversion happens early from base dmg. If added-as happens at the same step then it would only benefit from target type modifiers.

[livid hamlet]

Honestly MOM mana leech chonk sounds extremely strong

[terse pendant]

Do warcries buff allies as well as yourself?

[livid hamlet]

hell you can even go CI

[sour basin]

never mind i just saw the meta tag now it makes sense

[hoary bolt]

yeah you link a mace attack gem to it

and then supports

[sour basin]

yeah didnt notice the meta tag so was wondering how the skills get decided lol

[livid hamlet]

it's just my assumption, but based on what we see it looks like it takes the pool of damage that you deal ( maybe also counts preconversion damage not sure ) and then based on that calculate extra damage at the end , for each source separately

The fact that Extra is capitalized

[swift aspen]

how many ascendancy points do we get total? I saw in the video there are 2 different zones with a third at release but didn't hear it say max number of points

[livid hamlet]

indicates that it's a whole separate thing

[sour basin]

8

[livid hamlet]

8

[snow sierra]

8

[swift aspen]

thank you all lol

[snow sierra]

lol

[sour basin]

🤣

[dusty bear]

8

[swift aspen]

nailed it

[dusty bear]

😎

[swift aspen]

all the videos show eight ability slots on bottom left but we have 9 slots, is there a 9th slot somewhere or is one supposed to be a persistent only

[hoary bolt]

The way I understand it, if you deal 50 fire damage and 50 cold, and get 50% as extra light, you would then deal 50 fire 50 cold and 50 lightning, with 25 coming from each of fire and cold

[modern tangle]

So in your assumption, if I was dealing 100% phys dmg after global modifiers, then adding 20% as fire would actually give me 20% more damage. But then fire damage modifiers would not increase the 20%? Because I'm not sure if they'd allow double dipping after removing it from conversion.

[hoary bolt]

only the end damage type gets increased by damage modifiers

[nimble zinc]

I'm curious to play around with some of the spirit reservations that trigger spells. I think those may be good clearing tools

[silent prawn]

9th can be trigger skills

[swift aspen]

fire damage mods from passive tree should affect that 20%, but if you're talking about fire mods from a support gem they only support abilities with the fire tag which yours likely doesn't have

[hoary bolt]

the 20% as fire will be affected by fire damage

but not phys

because it is dealing fire, no carried over damage

[dusty bear]

i forgot how it was in poe1, damage as extra applied on each step of convresion right? but not on each other? (ie % as extra chaos applying to the %extra elemental damage too)

[hoary bolt]

if it was generic added as yes

[livid hamlet]

I'm not sure about that, maybe modifiers will work on extra damage, but i think that you won't be able to get extra chaos damage of extra fire damage for example

all the items just say that you gain x% of Extra Y damage

[dusty bear]

yea this is my guess as well

[livid hamlet]

you could gain extra chaos damage of extra elemental damage if it was extra chaos of non chaos damage

that's what made the whole conversion chain so busted

[hoary bolt]

Basically just remember that only the damage type the skill is actually doing will benefit from respectve increases to damage

[livid hamlet]

as well

[dusty bear]

right i thought it was just from conversion, not from extra

[hoary bolt]

so 100% phys converted to fire will not benefit from phys damage anymore

[dusty bear]

my memory's hazy

[livid hamlet]

outside of just triple scaling of extra damage

[modern tangle]

If the 20% were affected by fire bonuses and not phys then it's not 20% of my total anymore because the total only happened after phys modifiers. Let's say base was 50 units and it used to be 50 * 2 = 100 after global modifiers. Then added-as fire comes in with (50*2)+(50*.2) = 110 (100 phys, 10 fire) Because it's not benefiting from phys mod and there's no fire mod.

[hoary bolt]

its not converted after mults and increases

[livid hamlet]

that could work

[hoary bolt]

otherwise that would double dip

[dusty bear]

slightly unrelated, will ignite and poison dots benefit directly from %inc fire/chaos damage or only indirectly from increased hit damage?

[livid hamlet]

that actually sounds like the most reasonable explanation

[modern tangle]

Xantho, we're talking only about added-as not conversion. In poe1 they might be tied at the hip but we don't know if they are in poe2.

[livid hamlet]

you get the extra of the base calculation with all the conversions and what not

and then you scale each pool of damage by it's own multiplier

[hoary bolt]

They are though, they are strictly making an effort to remove all double dipping

[livid hamlet]

increases to element, hit, attack spell what not

[modern tangle]

My example was the one without double dipping, where the added-as benefits from final element's modifiers but not original elements. Then it's not 20% of my dmg tho, it was only 10%.

[hoary bolt]

the end result is irrelevant though

[livid hamlet]

i do wonder if you gain extra of both sets of damage if convert all of it

[hoary bolt]

because you might have more increases to one element vs. another'

[modern tangle]

My spreadsheet will very much care 😁

[hoary bolt]

then just make sure to gain as before increases and other mults

and then apply the mults to each respective portion

[livid hamlet]

i think it goes like this

You have your base damage with all additions and conversions

You gain extra damage from all the sources at the same time, they don't scale of each other, it's a whole separate pool of extra damage

You scale it using more and increases

In this whole setup i have no idea if extra damage double dips from conversion like it did in PoE 1 tho

or only of the final calculation

[hoary bolt]

it wont

[modern tangle]

we have dev statement that conversion doesn't double dip

[livid hamlet]

oh okay

[stuck tusk]

Im going to explain this is the simplest least complicated way possible ignoring all details

[hoary bolt]

that was one of the main reasons they removed the damave conversion chain

[stuck tusk]

(Conversion happens > damage increase happens)

[hoary bolt]

correct

[modern tangle]

I think there were scenarios where the double dipping made results more intuitive, but it became a system to be gamed in builds.

[livid hamlet]

so if convert 100% phys to cold and i have increases to phys damage, these increases don't matter at all

is that correct ?

[stuck tusk]

Yes

[hoary bolt]

yes

[livid hamlet]

Ok

[modern tangle]

Yeah for conversion we can reasonably expect that. Just saying they could make added-as different if they want.

[hoary bolt]

conversion is more of a tactial choice in poe 2 versus gaining an extra scaling vector

[livid hamlet]

Okay so in this case the question is if you get extra damage before or after the increases

[hoary bolt]

before

[livid hamlet]

ok

[dusty bear]

then extra damage is bad

[livid hamlet]

Not really

It's still more damage multiplier

[dusty bear]

only good extra damage would be of the same element you're playing

[hoary bolt]

its not, its just slightly more inefficient to scale

[livid hamlet]

no it's the oposite

if you play a cold build you will focus on cold damage increases

[dusty bear]

if you're playing a phys skill and get 20% extra as fire for example, you'd have nothing to scale the fire with

[hoary bolt]

thats true yeah

[livid hamlet]

and these cold damage increases will scale your fire extra damage

[sinful spade]

opinions on the bloodmage body armour ES as extra life node? It seems super strong in a vacuum but its a bit odd that it goes against the rest of the class since the progensis node only works with hits to your life pool

[livid hamlet]

in that case you scale the phys

of which you get the fire damage

[vivid meadow]

How do you apply chill in poe2?👀

[hoary bolt]

and gaining a 10% damage increase would then only gain you 2% damage

[dusty bear]

we just said extra applies before increases

so no

[hoary bolt]

in an overall sense

[livid hamlet]

Oh i thought it was the other way around

Hmm

[dusty bear]

logically it should be the other way around

i think

extra applies at the end of all calculations

and does not get increases re-applied to it

[livid hamlet]

That would make most sense to me

[dusty bear]

this would make the most sense

[livid hamlet]

tbh

[hoary bolt]

that would reintroduce double dipping

[dusty bear]

No

quick example

[livid hamlet]

no it wouldn't

you don't apply increases to extra damage

simple as that

[modern tangle]

very little actually known about chill atm

[livid hamlet]

just to the base damage pool that you get extra damage of

[vivid meadow]

Damn

[hoary bolt]

I missed the line where you said without increases applied

[maiden karma]

Exceptionally silly idea: acrobatics warbringer

[dusty bear]

100 phys hit, 100% conv to cold so 100 cold hit, 100% inc cold damage = 200 cold hit is the final increases calculation
then 20% extra as fire, so you'd get 200 cold + 40 fire

[livid hamlet]

That would make by far the most sense to me

and frnakly it would be the simplest and easiest to implement

[hoary bolt]

disgusting tree pathing lmao

[dapper marten]

what do you think is the best strength stacking skill?

[livid hamlet]

we know very little about actuall skills right now

tbh

[hoary bolt]

why are people wanting to strength stack without a strength stacking unique known

[distant dome]

does anyone know a video that specifically explains how bleed/elemental procs work in PoE 2?

[maiden karma]

There's plenty of one handed, shield and leech nodes along the way

[livid hamlet]

giant's blood

[snow sierra]

Do we know if there is something in poe2 that lets spells scale with str ?

[hoary bolt]

yeah but why giants blood other than it being thematically cool

[silent prawn]

no one knows ... or is allowed to talk about it

[distant dome]

k

[modern tangle]

This is what you'd get if added-as is detached from conversion and applied at the end. The alternative calculation is that you got 20 fire at the start (before or after conversion to cold) and then it didn't get increased. (if no fire modifiers)

[frigid hill]

Sunder bloodmage is the best str stacker (don't)

[hoary bolt]

like lifestacker is a thing for sure

[livid hamlet]

because this entire game is a power fantasy and people want to play what is thematically cool

[hoary bolt]

but rn I think strength stack as an attack build doesnt make much sense

[livid hamlet]

This is far from a weak build tbh

[dusty bear]

yeah i saw you talk about that one as well, but getting extra at the start would just... be terrible

[livid hamlet]

with everything we know right now

[maiden karma]

Closest we currently got is bloodmage getting crit damage from life

[frigid hill]

which is little hehe

[dusty bear]

if increases go to stuff like 500%, you'd go from a 100 phys hit to 600 phys + 20 fire from 20% as extra fire

[livid hamlet]

i mean the intrinsic build makes a lot of sense

[dusty bear]

which is laughable

[livid hamlet]

you might have issues with sanguimancy proccing often

[uncut sentinel]

Would +3 admiral's arrogance be better than southbounds with +1 frenzy corrupt

[modern tangle]

In your scenario would be, but getting it at the start could allow chaos build to get 30% extra chaos from 50/50 phys/chaos skill and then scale the chaos with their modifiers, for example.

[livid hamlet]

with sunder low attack speed

[true gulch]

does srs count as dying when i recast them via fireball?

[hoary bolt]

like strength literally doesnt even give damage anymore

[uncut sentinel]

trying to decide for my frostblades char

[modern tangle]

In both scenarios, some builds will be unhappy.

[silent prawn]

wrong channel

[uncut sentinel]

fuck

[dusty bear]

you can still get extra from the same element anyway?

even if you fully converted phys to chaos you'd still get the extra

[modern tangle]

Yeah but let's assume they can't convert fully. So far it's not very available.

[silent prawn]

resummon probably not. but when they run out perhaps.
probably easier to play with Infernal Legion

[modern tangle]

This is a full conversion. They're expecting it to be worth for some builds even with the penalty.

[livid hamlet]

We can't ask Viperesque for help anymore right ?
I think they prevent us from doing that

[modern tangle]

95%-99% don't tag devs

[hoary bolt]

only if he's in here willingly

[modern tangle]

you can ask without pinging and hope 😉

[hoary bolt]

pinging him while hes trying to work or chillin is lame

[modern tangle]

people have tried beetlejuicing him but it hasn't worked... yet!

[white timber]

Do we know anything about spell poison chance/global poison chance?

[maiden karma]

Nope

[hoary bolt]

chance to poison support?

its not full though

[maiden karma]

We know so little about anything

[livid hamlet]

All i know is that

[maiden karma]

Anything besides regular melee titan is bait

[livid hamlet]

Bloodmage Archamge bleed will probably be a bad league, nay , game starter

and it won't prevent me from doing that anyway

[hoary bolt]

im getting baited by flicker monk-man like a starving fish

or more accurately im baiting myself

[rancid stag]

whats flicker monk? the third asecendancy?

[maiden karma]

A monkfish if you will

[hoary bolt]

flicker strike is a skill

[livid hamlet]

People have crafter basically perma flicker invoker in paint

[hoary bolt]

real monkfish hours

[distant dome]

On the plus side, you'll start with a generic witch build and plow through content early

[hoary bolt]

yeah i got flicker all planned out already

[livid hamlet]

TBH this is such a meme fucking build

Like Archamge Stormweaver

sounds just so so much better

[maiden karma]

Fuck it, warbringer and pray negative armour goes down to at least -10% pdr

[modern tangle]

I would say poison is fairly known?

• It's somewhat uncertain if generic chaos dmg could apply it when you get poison chance from elsewhere. Either way, poison skills themselves both say they apply it and a chance.
• You can apply multiple poison stacks but by default, only 1 highest stack is dealing damage at any moment. You can increase this stack limit. Pathfinder ascendancy has x2 stack modifier and a node in the tree has +1. Then 4 highest poisons could be dealing damage at once.
• Stack duration is a short 2 seconds by default.
• The base damage of the poison over its default duration is 25% of the phys+chaos damage of the hit that caused it. The damage can be increased with poison magnitude (effect of poison in many older sources).

[hoary bolt]

poison flicker strike

[maiden karma]

PF doubles poison stacks

Not +1

[modern tangle]

thanks fixed

[hoary bolt]

ye way stronger if already adequate additional from elsewhere

if only pf and deadye were combined

[mellow onyx]

hihi quick question? is chaos dmg considered elemental dmg?

[maiden karma]

Man

[hoary bolt]

nope

[maiden karma]

Why did they do this to me

[hoary bolt]

fire, cold, and lightning are elemental

[mellow onyx]

okie thanks 🙂

[maiden karma]

I want to melee with a shield, but maces are fuckin stupid

[hoary bolt]

in a good or bad way

[livid hamlet]

Why ?

They seem pretty strong

or do you mean thematically

[silent prawn]

its just for a while until axes come 😄

[sinful spade]

has dual wielding changed in poe2? was told you cant dual wield wands or a few other weps anymore

[maiden karma]

All the cool mtx is for swords and axes

[hoary bolt]

true

[silent prawn]

yeah wands and Sceptres can't

[regal kernel]

any idea if slow from chronomancer ascendancy stacks with temp chains and chill effect?

[maiden karma]

You can only dual the same melee weapon type and dual bonuses are directly inside specific skills

[silent prawn]

it does, or should

[snow sierra]

its assumed yes

[sinful spade]

unfortunate no more double wands for lots of spell mods. stave or spellshield is the way now ig

[modern tangle]

it should but multiplicatively, and there could be a max limit of slowing enemies

[dusty bear]

that's fair, but in your scenario once you can convert fully there's no more upside for the chaos converting build, while the phys build loses any point in getting phys as extra chaos

question, idk if this was shown anywhere, does infernalist's loyal hellhound instantly ignite enemies near it like an elemental ground effect? or does it have to hit them

[modern tangle]

Yes. I really think full conversions are harder than poe1 though. Especially for chaos. Might be mostly available for skills that already mostly convert on their own.

[snow sierra]

temp chains minion chronomancer here i come 😛

[silent prawn]

just thought stupidly you might be able to support demon form with Infernal Legion lol

[hoary bolt]

hellhound should work

[dusty bear]

it's not a minion spell

the way i assume it does?

[silent prawn]

I know I know. was just thinking it could act as RF 😄

[distant dome]

This won't work with Bonestorm, becasue it lacks fire tag right?

[dusty bear]

mana flare doesn't specify fire spells

[hoary bolt]

rf is sort of in the game

[dusty bear]

this should work with any spell that does a hit

[hoary bolt]

but you didnt hear that from me

[silent prawn]

any spell as per description

[distant dome]

so these tags don't matter

flavor text does

k

[hushed rock]

So what people are going with mostly? Which ascendancy?

[dusty bear]

those tags are for the mana flare itself

they just tell you that mana flare is a Fire Spell that is Crit-related

[hoary bolt]

those are the tags of mana flare, not what it can support

[modern tangle]

As good a reference as any about current reddit/discord crowd: https://strawpoll.com/BDyNzkBweyR/results
Don't be surprised when a whole bunch of rangers suddenly appears on launch day like in poe1.

[distant dome]

That's intersting. If each bonestorm projectile crit can trigger mana flare, and mana flare is static damage

[hoary bolt]

its unknown if mana flare has a cooldown

[dusty bear]

It should, but mana flare can have an internal cooldown

[fading ether]

eyy, why are people not playing pathfinder, thats what i was gonna pick.

[distant dome]

true D:

[livid hamlet]

I'm going to assume that Mana flare is a dot

that can only have one stack per unit

[dusty bear]

in poe1 plenty of trigger abilities have an internal cooldown, reduced by cd recovery rate

[swift aspen]

does STR increase damage or is it only for life and meeting thresholds for gear/gems?

[livid hamlet]

so multiple applications won't be usefull

[dusty bear]

If it doesn't though, mana flares consumes a ton of your mana

so you will have to be able to sustain it

[modern tangle]

the poll was before their full reveal btw. The warbinger stocks are UP with the armour breaking nodes.

[distant dome]

It Life.... which -does- increase damage on Blood Mage Crits :D
STR Witch, Hulk Smash

[dusty bear]

str= 2 life, int = 2 mana, dex = 5 accuracy

[swift aspen]

yeah I knew about the passive defensives just was curious if there's any offensive bonus to them

[hoary bolt]

nope

well accuracy sort of is

[livid hamlet]

God i have no idea if i want to play

1. Invoker something with staffs
2. Archmage Blood Mage Bleed something
3. Archamge Stormweaver
4. Witchunter crossbows

[sinful spade]

gonna be rough to get str from the tree to get more life when youre gonna need tons of int for your support gems

[livid hamlet]

Archmage stormweaver is probably the strongest of the bunch

[hoary bolt]

FLICKER MONK FLICKER MONK

[sinful spade]

would archmage blood mage not just kill itself

[livid hamlet]

sanguimancy says it adds base skill of spells as your life

[ancient geyser]

start archmage stormweaver, you can transition to bloodmage archmage with the same gear later on and from bloodmage you can expand to anything else cool that may pop up, then definitely try monk out after that

[hushed rock]

Ye I’m thinking what wouldn’t overwhelm me tbh. Seems like titan is pretty safe bet for starters although I wanted witch minions first but not sure if I’ll manage

[livid hamlet]

so it should not add archamge cost

[ancient geyser]

yeah because archmage is no longer a support skill

[sinful spade]

that feels too lenient for poe but maybe youre right

[distant dome]

Not if you go Melee witch, cuz hulk SMASH

[dusty bear]

poe 2's pretty lenient it seems

[livid hamlet]

and the bleed of elemental damage, meaning that you can proc bleed with archmage damage is just

[dusty bear]

but a little more limited

[sinful spade]

looks fun but so far away from the nodes youd want on the tree

do we know what critical weakness does yet or nah

[hoary bolt]

yes

[dusty bear]

gives base crit chance against debuffed enemies

stacks

[hoary bolt]

0.5% to base crit per stack

[modern tangle]

Titan for bonk seems straightforward indeed. On either character, you might have opportunity to use active block. It's really strong.

[hoary bolt]

up to 20

[sterile latch]

Think i'll play something like that, have to decide btw WH or GL

https://poe2skills.com/share?data=N4IgdghgtgpiBcIDmMoBsCWYkAJZphhwA8AjAewHcQAaEUgVwzQBMEBtUAZwGtm0EICACco5BsJwAHDDGEBjLLmHiwLLrRBcGUqeWEAXDfHYh5ACwhZNWecJgQuMFjhFiJOUvYg9NXhzw4MGoSEGDycHQAZvq+dFxSmGAGciAAugC+NNx8aAKI2mqp8Tp6hsamMMSJ5BgGOJQBYDBcGnT4hNLmAJ5cGPIQaDgs0BAofmjk5CxoDFwGmnZ1-YPDo+N05uLCSGiOGpnZWrn5IFhRcpBDdt2a2rr6RhwgUnKvBgyrFiIbZvrCOgMShwN00wjGwNBdGC4JQLkoIihIFQeka9hcIygYzghxy-EEiKB8lcom2d1KjwqIAAbnVBnVbnQpPZFH1yGBFnthAzFmEwBhSPSuFA-MtsCDyKx0lk8XlBAN5jh2XgYAQiCdyQ9ys8WDADOyIClhg42HQRA4lVEglELvIFmaWLqXFEMPY1ljxrjjvjEOY5IMXOQrY5zJqyk8TF7eD6zLN5nIcEh7JBdWHKRwoxrEFE9lxzInkxBdTg9gxwn7hGntZGZd65YhSLmpH6oIytBTq6YUlAyl9LFg2siwBcYI3IiA-RgkOYUs0XPIJE5NMEF1AvGEItLMkA

[hoary bolt]

looks pretty solid

should throw overpower on flash

[sterile latch]

i dont want to play pure mace nor pure xbow but both seems fun

[dusty bear]

whole build i'm trying to make hinges on hellhound's Ignites Nearby Enemies working as i expect it, ie. any enemy that gets in range gets ignited instantly

... and i guess on minion AI

[swift aspen]

are we assuming Iron Grip is similar to PoE1 STR bonus? something like every 5 STR = 1% damage increase?

[dusty bear]

don't know

[snow sierra]

why use the hellhound ?

[dusty bear]

to enable "against ignited enemies" modifiers without igniting them myself

[olive tide]

like 3 ppl told me iron grip isnt a thing in poe2.. it was from an old playtest. but idk if thats true or not

[swift aspen]

ooooh

interesting

[royal badge]

What are some good supports for Barrage? Rn I just have reduced CD and perpetual charge

Ooh empowered damage i just found

[olive tide]

more duration in case u have to dodge stuffs for a few more seconds.. would suck if buff falls off

[royal badge]

Buff lasts for 5 seconds which is really long tho

I guess it's no downside to put on there

[olive tide]

i think empowered damage would only work if u are empowering the attack tho, with like a warcry or w/e

[royal badge]

i'm going snipe earlygame then transitioning to spiral volley

oh damn ok

[olive tide]

trust me im on the snipe bleed bow train(short train)... if aggravate is somewhat easy to pick up, im all in on it.

[royal badge]

how are you getting bleed on there? the 15% chance gem?

i'm doing unbreakable/crit dmg/window/close combat/brutality

[olive tide]

when did it drop to 15 lmao.. either way yea that and there are some nodes on the tree we know about.. so has to be more, plus bow modifiers

[royal badge]

im just doing big hit snipe, no ailment

[olive tide]

i like snipe, hopefully we can hit it in the window for that juicy damage

[dusty bear]

do you have to do phys damage to stun?

[modern tangle]

No, phys and melee just get bonuses for stun

[olive tide]

not 100% on the stun thing, id imagine but idk if we have seen the tooltip yet

[dusty bear]

wait i'm so stupid

[modern tangle]

all damage deals stun

[dusty bear]

i've been trying to find ways to convert phys to fire for an attack when i could just start with a fire weapon

[modern tangle]

all hit damage at least

[modest anvil]

Is frost build valid here?

[dusty bear]

thanks

[olive tide]

avatar of fire converts 75%

[dusty bear]

that is true

so as long as i get 25% somewhere i can run a phys weapon already

cool

[pseudo kayak]

Anyone have ideas for a pure support?

[olive tide]

blasphemy curse bot

[dusty bear]

one of the 2 ascendancies that give spirit and slap on every aura i guess?

[sinful spade]

is critical damage support worth it anymore with the 20% less hit dmg? or is bleed inflicted not based on the hit dmg

[dusty bear]

discipline alone is already huge

[modern tangle]

Somewhere in a Q&A, probably the reveal livestream one, Mark mentions playing support a lot and how it's more active compared to aura bot days. There were probably some examples of what he's doing... maybe things like applying armour break, cc, holding aura sceptre (they teased 2 of them), applying effects like gas cloud for someone to explode.

[olive tide]

if its a crit it'll do more base hit damage.. relative to the 20% less damage

[sinful spade]

feel like we gotta see how accessible multi is on items and tree

50 multi for 20% less dmg in poe1 would not be worth at all right

[hoary bolt]

im not sure iron grip exists actually

[modern tangle]

This is a thing if coordinating builds with people.

[swift aspen]

yeah someone earlier said the same

[snow sierra]

Infernal support char seems goatet

[swift aspen]

zdps

[sinful spade]

still feels weird to me that charges dont have inherent bonuses anymore

just used for powering up certain skills

[olive tide]

i got a feeling there will uniques to add those bonuses back

[swift aspen]

for called shots, does that mean you cast the same mark twice? i didn't see anywhere about max one mark per unit anywhere

[hoary bolt]

I would bet money on only being different

same as normal curse limit

[pseudo kayak]

Yea this is certainly the sort of thing that will hopefully elevate the playstyle. I'm just struggling to get some specifics down for an alt support build to play when more casual friends are up for coop

[hoary bolt]

the wording is an additional mark

not 'you can apply marks twice' or something similar

[modern tangle]

IMO, to make casual friend shine, you CC the enemies and maybe buff friend's damage with things like armour break, shock or infernalist's ally buff. Or marks/curses.

[terse pendant]

Do we know if warcries affect allies?

[hoary bolt]

not that im aware of

the wording would heavily suggest no

[sterile stone]

has it ever affects allies?

[hoary bolt]

yes

[sterile stone]

im still sad they dont have minion ascendancy

[hoary bolt]

cry-bot is a thing in poe 1

for the buffs

[sterile stone]

oh didnt know cry support exist lol

[main geyser]

is there a walking simulator build like full minions or rf

[hoary bolt]

you can give like 10% max res to allies, 20% perma life regen and other goodies

super strong

[sterile stone]

best bet is minion, no one can cook autobomber wihtout info

[pseudo kayak]

what gives that much life regen?

(to allies)

[hoary bolt]

enduring cry with infinite power and tons of warcry buff effect

[main geyser]

my wrists thank you

i like to play with one hand

[hoary bolt]

but for poe 2 who knows

[sterile stone]

demon girl do be hot

[hoary bolt]

not even sure enduring cry exists rn

[modern tangle]

we know enduring cry is not on mace/warrior skill gem list in very recent build

[hoary bolt]

yeah i was looking a the forbidden wiki and its not there

[dusty bear]

pretty sure it got dmca'd or some shit

[hoary bolt]

they have all the skills there

at least it seems like it

[sterile stone]

oh wait actually, minion on poe 1 is already pretty intensive with, offerings, buffs, curses etc, idk how its gonna be on poe 2, but minion auto resummons is massive QoL for sure

[modern tangle]

fairly sure all class skill lists were shown in reveal livestream

[dusty bear]

can you link me it? i might be thinking about something else

[modern tangle]

I recommend https://poe2db.tw/us/Warrior#Warrior instead

[main geyser]

auto summon would be nice, not aiming for leaderboard

[hoary bolt]

of course yeah, but poe2db doesnt have everything

[modern tangle]

it lists the skills

we just haven't seen tooltip

[dusty bear]

that has as much info as poe2db

tooltips are missing from a lot of stuff

[hoary bolt]

i hate using that scummy site though

most of the monk skills have full tooltips at least

[modern tangle]

quarterstaff/monk is 100% after we got mantra

don't look at crossbow/merc, it's sad

too many reworks

[dusty bear]

charged staff still no tooltip

[hoary bolt]

its on the f site

[modern tangle]

true that tooltip is very old. We have a lot of charged staff footage though

[hoary bolt]

im praying they dont nerf the duration

[swift aspen]

for the multiple projectiles gem, can they all hit the same target if they're close enough? I'm assuming the multiple projectiles are cast concurrently in a fan

[hoary bolt]

the QoL of how long it lasts is amazing

[modern tangle]

extending it with later uses while stacking up is the important part. More Duration support is 40%

[hoary bolt]

curious what the buff cap is

perpetual charge is a no brainer

[pseudo kayak]

Man, only thing I'm seeing is Mass Rejuv node (2% of your hp as regen to allies) and Discipline (your mana to their ES)

[modern tangle]

"up to your maximum Power Charges" on that site. Increase charge limit then. The limit support might also work.

[hoary bolt]

most of the support passives are likekjly in templar area

it has to have the specific word 'limit'

[outer marlin]

Is there a point of going sorceress storm weaver if you aren't gonna do mana stack/archmage?

[hoary bolt]

yeah definitely

[outer marlin]

I feel like that's gonna be the strongest path but also a bit overflooded

[hoary bolt]

the double shock, the recoup, and the exposure effect are great

or the storms if just a general spellcaster

[outer marlin]

I want to do a cold freeze build but I've been told shock is much stronger?

[hoary bolt]

freeze and chill are far stronger defensively

[outer marlin]

Ahh ok

[hoary bolt]

cant be hurt when enemy is frozen

[regal kernel]

ehy not both?

the shock nodes are best with cold skills

[outer marlin]

So would it be worth while to make like go for the double chill and all elements can shock?

[hoary bolt]

yeah id say so

[lusty surge]

hello guys. I am new to poe in general. Has anyone theory craft a build for monk invoker that can share with me please? thanks in advance!

[outer marlin]

Got it, thank you guys!

[hoary bolt]

Im going to be going invoker

[distant glade]

Anyone cooking with invoker? I made a mantra of destruction set up with falling thunder but it feels like it might be clunky

Lol sounds like we all want invoker

[snow sierra]

Any info who access to skill gems is handled while leveling ?

[hoary bolt]

flicker >>>>>>>>>>>>>>falling thunder

https://poe2skills.com/share?data=N4IgdghgtgpiBcICyB7MBrEAaEAjArgJYA2AJggNqgDO6JxCI1hADgBZqFgDmABNQBcAToXRwc1fCxYohA6pRAAzCIJhDeEAQIgBjdApxQIkXsRgxdbbCCj5iA1ud5WIQ7uJBCIH7GHvEALoAvlg0dMQMiErEhPrq-MKinpLSsvKKuihQuCi8SlyE1GzqNt4eSrIe5Di6xCjUMC7ZuFo2AO4wEDJgvDDmsGA6xLyk0D5wIWFMEVEgAjBQLDCCvLj9DBJSMnIK8BQgbl28KEp9SkqWAiBT4fSMxkPeJ2ekK8L4uo5oNqk7GfsQIsZJ0hDBSKNxr4cMCUKDwS4AjdQndIgh-JEtmldpRbjN7ohXO4EYIIBdftt0nsDlBZE1SPhvN8wDZ8GBzKprDhlkJlgJ8BARkTfHjaASQLFuGwBGAuHxBLIoBTsQCDpLpbKeH0AB4ySRgmwwMDqABuWkIP1qaAZXwtLIkHH0LjYJl0kxR+LRiBK3jIL14AjYbLeQmV-2potmjFwxFU7EWAE8w1TFEbLjAY+6QkA

[distant glade]

I can’t play flicker lol

It does seem like invoker is gonna be the flicker / coc class which I don’t really care to play. Maybe I play something else then

[dusty bear]

i wonder if shockwave totem will proc volcanic fissure's aftershocks? 🤔

[distant glade]

I just liked the evasion as pdr

[outer marlin]

You have an uncut gem that you assign a skill to

[modern tangle]

When you find an uncut skill gem, it's for specific level. You can use it to create new skill gem up to that level (skill gems have different minimum levels) and it'll be same level as uncut gem. Or you can use uncut gem to upgrade any of your existing skill gems.

[hoary bolt]

you can drop them randomly, but I believe certain bosses guarantee them

[snow sierra]

so every class has kinda quick access to every skill, not like in poe 1

[hoary bolt]

yes

[royal badge]

Oh true that’s not worth it since its just increased crit dmg

[swift aspen]

you can't bleed with ES up, but you can poison right?

[lusty surge]

i see a lot of people theory crafting other classes except monk invoker, i might try and make my own build it will be hard since i am new to poe but i hope i cook something good

[dusty bear]

plenty of people are theorycrafting invoker

[modern tangle]

it'll recommend the ones for your weapon first to avoid overwhelming people, but you can access them all. Support gems have their own uncut gem, and they don't have levels. Only tiers for when you can access them. Spirit gems also have their own uncut gem for buff skill selection.

[hoary bolt]

the link I just posted is for my setup for invoker flicker

if you want some ideas

[lusty surge]

thx idk what flicker means but i will look into it

[snow sierra]

Cool, so playing Minion Chronomancer should be smooth sailing in terms of getting the minion skills

[royal badge]

What will be the fastest way to level?

[modern tangle]

It would be more viable to theorycraft invoker if we knew the actual skill effects for the various ascendancy skills.

[hoary bolt]

by killing monsters and bosses

no need to rush

[royal badge]

if i play Trade it feels like i need to rush to get to the endgame

so im not behind on supplying the demand

[lusty surge]

are these gems given for each class or dropped by monsters?

[modern tangle]

If you want a freebie, you could play the witch to the first town and get their starting skill gem + uncut gem. I think.

[snow sierra]

ye thats my plan

[hoary bolt]

if youre new no matter how much you rush youre still going to finish 50x slower than veterans

[royal badge]

im not new to poe but im not a racer

[hoary bolt]

fair enough

[dusty bear]

sadly applies to everything atm

[hoary bolt]

how fast do you finish campaign generally?

[royal badge]

i havent played in many leagues

[hazy bison]

Hello, new to Poe as a whole. I had some feedback about what I'm interested in being partly bait and not worth. Was hoping for some thoughts from you people.

Numbers refer to Chayula ascendancy nodes:

A) 1 5 7 8 + CI/MoM 0 ES
B) 1 4 7 8 + CI/MoM 0 ES

I got told darkness is not worth, that's the bait part?

[swift aspen]

conversely, if you take your time, what you demand will be in supply

[hoary bolt]

Honestly unless you're like top 5% of players in speed, there's not much point rushing at all

[royal badge]

brain broken

[swift aspen]

lol

[hoary bolt]

past the very early stuff, there's not much benefit to being 'first' to access content

[dusty bear]

i'm trying to theorycraft an infernalist attack build but i have so many questions idk if i can atm lol

[hoary bolt]

stuff depreciates so quick that its almost irrelevant

[swift aspen]

and the people who rushed will have checked which builds don't work

[royal badge]

but what if im part of the first group to sell high ilvl base items...

[swift aspen]

you're selling to a market without saturated gold

[hoary bolt]

even me who finishes campaign faster than like 90% of people dont really benefit a lot from being early

[swift aspen]

so the gold you get for the items won't hold the same value days/weeks later

[hoary bolt]

because the other 10% already supplied everyone and that market has dried

[dusty bear]

depends xantho really

[royal badge]

what is your strategy for "wealth" then?

[hoary bolt]

crafting, farming

being early isnt the only way

[swift aspen]

the real difference would be time spent farming at higher levels, you'll lose some hours in the initial days and that's about it

[hoary bolt]

in fact early is only applicable for like a couple days at most

[dusty bear]

before t17s, if you rushed red maps and did exarch altars day 1 you'd make giant bank

[royal badge]

Do you think there will be another scandal where a few players know about a crazy good vendor recipe or crafting method?

[hoary bolt]

possibly

[swift aspen]

this is like every game

[dusty bear]

and now you can rush t17s if your build is able to and sell the uniques for a ton

[modern tangle]

You can't trade gold. It's a currency used to pay the currency exchange tax, and to respec.

and npc vendors probs

[swift aspen]

well then his concern is moot

[modern tangle]

you trade all the other crafting currencies instead, and they're the currency for item purchases too

[hoary bolt]

like I didnt even play last league until 12 hours late

and still had 240 div by day 3

knowledge is 1000x stronger than speed

[royal badge]

the richest i ever got was vaaling drillnecks one league

i found that the pricing underestimated the chance to get +1 arrow

[hoary bolt]

thats the way, find a market inefficiency and go for it

[royal badge]

yeah, that's mainly why i'm playing Trade. SSF loses a huge portion of the fun for me

[snow sierra]

there are no life notes on the tree anymore right ? What preventing someone to take the ES notes and stack life and es ? Is it limited by the stat rolls on items ?

[dusty bear]

do yall think trying to play a quarterstaff attack build while being armour+es is suicide

[hoary bolt]

thats kind of all that crafting is at the end of the day, youre hinging on the market deeming a value for your crafted item being in excess of your investment into making it

[royal badge]

exactly

[hoary bolt]

unfortunately for me as good as I am at crafting im also a gambling addict

[modern tangle]

Nothing really prevents you. Getting base energy shield from items basically means you're not getting armour or evasion, so the dmg reduction layers can be an issue. Also you'll want further modifiers increasing energy shield on the items, but also life modifiers, so there's contest. It will take a long time to get many good modifiers on same items. So early if you only get to choose 2 modifiers, it can be energy shield vs life instead of both. Also other modifiers will compete too.

[hoary bolt]

i couldve just cashed out and invested into a mirror on day 3, but i didnt lmao

[royal badge]

What will be this game's gambling since 6L is gone? Rolling for affixes?

Ah, yeah holding currencies i guess

[hoary bolt]

poe 1 has so many gambling avenues rn

[gaunt vapor]

crafting?

[modern tangle]

If you plan to get ES back from its own recharge, the armour approach has some issue compared to evasion. Especially since you won't have high block or active block either.

[gaunt vapor]

corrupting for sockets

[hoary bolt]

crafting is only somewhat gambling

in the individual steps of the process it sort of is

but the entire process its not

[dusty bear]

no es leech from attacks?

[modern tangle]

Monk's ascension Acolyte of Chayula can achieve that.

[hoary bolt]

hence why good crafters 'always' win

[dusty bear]

but no natty es leech?

i'm doing ifnernalist

[livid hamlet]

Why go for ES + Armor over ES + Evasion tho ? Invoker is primed for the latter

[dusty bear]

infernalist*

[hoary bolt]

not from what we can see

[dusty bear]

because i'm not invoker 🤔

[livid hamlet]

we don't know

[dusty bear]

aight thanks

[livid hamlet]

it might be available via gear

we had sources of that in PoE1 if i recall correctly

[dusty bear]

i know they said mana leech is only from attacks, so i thought they could've mentioned es

[modern tangle]

haven't seen any. Another option for hybrid life/es is zealot's oath keystone.

[dusty bear]

a few yeah

it was rare even in poe1

[livid hamlet]

No, they mentioned mana specifically , because they are very against spells leeching mana

[hoary bolt]

i am praying to every possibly deity that invoker meditate bypasses es recharge delay

[dusty bear]

yea that's fair

[dusty bear]

i mean you cast it so i'd say of course it does, but it is stopped by damage

[livid hamlet]

Honestly invoker sounds like a pretty decent minion build

[hoary bolt]

nah i mean if it can kickstart natural recharge

[outer marlin]

What's wrong with spells leeching mana?! I just want to be a god

[gaunt vapor]

why worry about mana when you get free crit cap, free sustain, and trivilize mana by going bloodmage with blood magic xdd

[dusty bear]

that's exactly the issue

[hoary bolt]

like you get hit, channel for .1 seconds and your natural recharge contnues

thats what I mean

[outer marlin]

lol ik, otherwise ci, MoM archmage builds would be crazy OP

[dusty bear]

Don't forget you have to regen that life cost

it's not as easy as it sounds

[gaunt vapor]

wym, you get spell life leach

[livid hamlet]

in 3 months they make it so for the first 0.1 sec of meditation if you get hit you get massive amounts of ES and movemenst speed, thus introducing PoE2 first perfect parry system

[outer marlin]

Not in poe2

[livid hamlet]

[dusty bear]

bloodmage ascendancy has that

[livid hamlet]

you get spell life leech, you don't get spell mana leech

[hoary bolt]

lmao

[dusty bear]

but that's not exactly free anymore

[modern tangle]

Imagine, we don't even know if Meditate has a cooldown 😧

[outer marlin]

Oh spell life

My b

[gaunt vapor]

???

[outer marlin]

Thought I read mana

[hoary bolt]

it def should trigger passives that count for starting recharge though right?

[royal badge]

Can anyone name a few defensive layers a point blank deadeye could use to survive being up close? Tailwind looks bad imo

[hoary bolt]

i would assume

[dusty bear]

logout

[royal badge]

lmao

[livid hamlet]

No being an up close as deadeye is the best layer for that situation

[gaunt vapor]

cold damage on gear so you can freeze

[hoary bolt]

like if it didnt then they would have to differentiate between es recharge, and other es recharge

[gaunt vapor]

if thats still a thing

[royal badge]

Hmm ok

Maybe blasphemy+tc+enfeeble

[proven quest]

I'm really hoping more of the unknown passives around the monk area are damage nodes. Right now the int/dex area feels like it's missing damage compared to the other parts of the tree

[modern tangle]

tailwind is meant for full evasion but could also benefit from high passive block, or simply active block

[dusty bear]

can't active block with a bow

[livid hamlet]

1e10 DPS to kill things, in a true PoE 1 fashion @royal badge

[hoary bolt]

dont have to use a bow though

[modern tangle]

he didn't name a weapon

[dusty bear]

can't active block with a quarter staff either no?

[livid hamlet]

Not right now you don't but in time you just might, seeing as they said you will have ways to use bow as a melee weapon

[dusty bear]

i don't see a deadeye running a mace kek

[hoary bolt]

not that we know

[modern tangle]

that's right so far. And even if we've seen one with spell block, high block without shield might be too hard

[proven quest]

I didn't think spell block existed anymore

[royal badge]

I was thinking Spiral Volley which requires Bow, but maybe Deadeye is not the best ascendancy for Spiral Volley

[distant glade]

Any chance something like iron will gets added to poe2

If so I’m bloodmage 100%

[royal badge]

I just figured the frenzy charge synergy and point blank meant that Spiral Volley could be good on Deadeye

[modern tangle]

it was probably an old item base. Maybe they convert it to block everything 🙏

[royal badge]

Tbh all build theorycrafting goes out the window once we see the uniques

[distant glade]

If block is for hits it will block spells too idk the wording on it though

[proven quest]

That'd be cool. If so it's probably a lower block %

Also remember for active block, you should be able to just have a weapon swap with a shield that lets you use the skill

[distant glade]

Yeah but you’re not gonna start a build that requires a unique

[modern tangle]

This was the item. Do not accept lower block! Riot! (need higher level version of the base first)

[hoary bolt]

thats already bad as is lol

[modern tangle]

haha I told you it might be too difficult to stack

[hoary bolt]

yeah especially because tree is all % increases not flat

[modern tangle]

flat from runes or jewels, have faith

[royal badge]

Well yeah but if there's a common unique that is usable, it may be affordable by day 2 for instance

i guess it wouldnt be anything buildbreaking tho

Do we know what level we get Tier 13 skill gems?

[hoary bolt]

prob like 38ish

[livid hamlet]

Honestly i'm kinda sad no one here is talking about Witch hunter, but i guess that's fair seeing as we know nothing about crossbows almost

[royal badge]

Damn that's a while

[hoary bolt]

havoc leveled to 36 in the LA event and didnt get the highest tier gems

[proven quest]

Catalysis might be my annoint honestly. That notable looks cracked

[royal badge]

Is the 5% that good?

[modern tangle]

Level 52 is a common req on the T13 gem tooltips. Some are much lower.

[hoary bolt]

remember that there are a ton of unkown passives

there could be some nutty ones we dont know

[distant glade]

Do we know how invokers pdr node is calculated? Is it straight up pdr=evasion chance or is it like evasion rating = armor rating?

[hoary bolt]

we dont know, but its def not evade chance = pdr

[modern tangle]

lol no, we don't know shit

[livid hamlet]

Wait there's actually 0 sources of Leech on tree

[proven quest]

On top of the second highest elemental damage node on the tree, yes imo haha

[hoary bolt]

because evade chance depends on the enemy

[livid hamlet]

so it will all have to come from gear right ?

[dusty bear]

hear me out gentlemen

[hoary bolt]

or gems

[dusty bear]

take CI, grab something that overflows your max life

[royal badge]

Is this stat a meme or is this going to be useful?

[thick thunder]

if elemental storms can overlap than tempest caller + rain dancer might be kind of cracked right?

[dusty bear]

you now have 2 life

[distant glade]

True

[modern tangle]

I want to hire the guy who teased Titan ascendancy to redo the monk ones

[hoary bolt]

kinda meme

ok for clear I guess, but only in small areas

[dusty bear]

proceed to use demonflare with 10 cap permanently because 10% of 2 is 0.2 and that's rounded down to 0

[royal badge]

you can get 100% chance pretty easily in the dex area

[livid hamlet]

don't projectiles get destroyed on terrain

[distant glade]

Fuck man idk what to play

[hoary bolt]

the question is if you need chain in the first place

[livid hamlet]

and can't chain ?

Because if that's the case this is massive QoL

[hoary bolt]

chain an 'additional time' is weird wording

[modern tangle]

Yes. In general, they want flat from sources like items and tree helps you specialize. With leech they went extreme.

[livid hamlet]

Check the name of the game in the channel :^)

[hoary bolt]

huh

[livid hamlet]

It's a joke how it's a PoE channel so weird wording is everywhere

[hoary bolt]

gotcha

[livid hamlet]

someone workin on PoE was definitely a mathematician cause they definitely went overboard with logical representation of in game language

it's almost purposefully unintuitive sometimes

[hoary bolt]

i appreciate it generally as an unemployed engineer

[livid hamlet]

overall #metoo

[sterile latch]

Can we attribute spec points to notable node ?

[livid hamlet]

but sometimes they write almost pseudocode in the item description

[hoary bolt]

yes

just no keystones

[sterile latch]

ah y i think i meant keystones, rekt

[livid hamlet]

so if i understand correctly, we have 102 passive points and 20 weapon points, that are attached to a weapon slot right ?

so if i swap the weapon i get a slightly different tree

[sterile latch]

122*

[livid hamlet]

yeah total is 122

but that includes weapon points i believe

[royal badge]

Is it gonna be trolling if we don’t take advantage of weapon swapping?

[sterile latch]

oh

i see

[gaunt vapor]

i dont think we only get 10 points for each weapon

that does not sound right

[sterile latch]

20spec pts and 102 passives then ok

[livid hamlet]

you get 20 per weapon set

you have two wepaon set

what you have in your weapon set doesn't matter

you can dual wield, two hand, use shield or even unarmed

[royal badge]

Odds Facebreaker builds are a thing again?

[livid hamlet]

At least that's my understanding

[royal badge]

I wanna play unarmed monkkkk

[hoary bolt]

not early in EA

[gaunt vapor]

even 20 per weapon seems low with how much bigger clusters are in this game

[livid hamlet]

there are unarmed gems in the game

[modern tangle]

Jonathan said it's not in yet but will be. (Or another unique that helps.)

[gaunt vapor]

but we'll see

[hoary bolt]

actual item and passive support for unarmed will come later

[distant glade]

Eye of winter looks good with blood mage, does that look good as a main skill or more just the utility of critical weakness?

[gaunt vapor]

since they want us to use main passive points for highway travel + keystones, and use weapon points to travel into clusters

[livid hamlet]

god forbid we will have to click every time to select if we want to allocate a weapon point or a normal one

[hoary bolt]

i think its a toggle in the corner

so nah

[gaunt vapor]

johnathan said its fine that we have to click 100 times to respec xd so i wouldnt put it past them

[sterile latch]

from my 1st "test" doing it, it looks fine. the merc tree is really well built, you have passives for everything very early

[livid hamlet]

You guys think we will have passive tree planner ?

Not early in EA of course

but overall

[hoary bolt]

of course

[gaunt vapor]

maybe after a few weeks

[livid hamlet]

i mean in game

not PoB2

[gaunt vapor]

oh no

[distant glade]

Prob not in game

[gaunt vapor]

well

maybe

[livid hamlet]

once upon a time i think they promised that

long long time ago

[gaunt vapor]

because they said they want people to be able to import passive trees

[hoary bolt]

if you mean preset your passives and have them auto fill then maybe

[distant glade]

It won’t be as detailed as PoB if there ends up being one

[livid hamlet]

also Path of China has it i believe

[hoary bolt]

yeah

[livid hamlet]

oh i know, i just dont want to go to PoB every 4 levels in the early game

[distant glade]

I feel that lol

[hoary bolt]

get a 2nd monitor

[modern tangle]

well you're safe for now 🤣

[gaunt vapor]

With them talking about having a file like a filter file you can apply to your skilltree to highlight the nodes, i assume it is either in game tree planning or pob functionality

[livid hamlet]

i already gave away my second monitor for work

working from laptop while having two monitors for PoE felt too brazen

[hoary bolt]

nonsense

[livid hamlet]

perchance you might notice it's working time and i've been here for 4h now

[royal badge]

Is it just me or is elemental more supported by supports and passives than physical at the moment?

[distant glade]

For bloodmage do you think it’s worth scaling ES to give us a buffer for overflowing our life?

[livid hamlet]

not really, the whole point of life overflow is to get more tanky

getting another source of tankiness that you have to focus on to protect your tankiness

feels counterproductive

[distant glade]

I just thought it might be harder to overflow if you’re constantly taking dmg straigjt to your hp

ES recovery is also ass atm

[heady palm]

Guessing this doesn't stack with "more defences from shield" passives?
it just takes the base values?

[distant glade]

I guess it depends how well the orbs scale if we can overflow quickly

[livid hamlet]

but why do you want to overflow ?

[prime oracle]

Any mercenary theory/build planners? <.<

[livid hamlet]

as far as i know there's no bonus from being in that state

[distant glade]

Crit dmg

[snow sierra]

Still could be funny Bloodmage with MoM and Energy Shield, like i heard you like alternative lifepools so i put a few over your life xD

[distant glade]

Gore spikes

[livid hamlet]

Oh

Hmm it doesn't actually read maximum life

But usually these things scaled with your maximum attributes

so i just assumed it's the case here

but maybe i'm wrong

[icy turtle]

which is why overflow works. it's current life.

[livid hamlet]

in that case ES could potentially work

[proven quest]

Prism Guard and the cluster around it is insane. Warrior starting area is so strong

[livid hamlet]

But it was supposedly confirmed that self damage from sanguimancy

stops your ES recharge

[distant glade]

Oh

That’s lame

If true

[livid hamlet]

Or was it only with Eternal Youth ?

i'm not sure

[distant glade]

Brother you are confusing me

[livid hamlet]

Anyway it could technically make sense

[distant glade]

I’m leaving now

[livid hamlet]

But i think it will be suboptimal

and you will be better of just speccing into one direction

[livid hamlet]

look for fast metabolism on the tree

[proven quest]

Oh ya, I saw that one. Slayer in shambles

At least it's out in a corner of the tree though, Prism Guard is so easy to get to

[livid hamlet]

i had to do a double take when i saw that one

[proven quest]

Warrior looks like there's literally no way to fuck it up. Even if you didn't ascend at all I think it would be competitive with some of the ascendencies

[alpine vigil]

is that a challenge?

watch me play blood magic archmage titan

[livid hamlet]

that just wastes 100 spirit

it's nothing

+1 point for ProvenTea

[proven quest]

hahahaha if you want it to be. I just feel like I'm starting at a disadvantage if I don't go warrior

[icy turtle]

man I wanna play blood mage so bad. but I don't wanna pick up the life remnants all the time lol.

[alpine vigil]

shit you're right

[livid hamlet]

[livid hamlet]

Can i introduce you the lord and saviour of your attemp

[alpine vigil]

I can't even do CI EB BM

[gaunt vapor]

skills costing mana =/= skill scaling from mana

[proven quest]

But blood mage warrior is probably incredible. Throw life leech on an attack, increase the leech duration, and then when you need some life just press the button

[gaunt vapor]

[modern tangle]

darkness sceptre acolyte

[alpine vigil]

just picking chonk bricks your character tbh

[livid hamlet]

You can't blood mage as a warrior but i know you mean blood mage melee and yeah, it will be pretty strong

or at least viable

[proven quest]

Sorry, blood magic**

[livid hamlet]

oh that's different from what i thought you meant

yeah that will be nice

but i'm not sure if necessary

since they said you will be able to leech mana from attacks

[gaunt vapor]

anyone else notice the obvious theme with poe2's ascendancy classes? example, on witch you have Bloodmage for INT / STR, and Infernalist for INT, which means the next ascendancy is going to be INT/ DEX and the pattern repeats for each class. Each ascedancy ventures out to a neighboring quadrant

[livid hamlet]

and you can't not have a mana flask now

so managing mana as a warrior might be much easier

[proven quest]

I'm a QOL guy, I'll spend a couple of points on the tree to not have to press an extra button

And lose a support on a skill for mana leech

[snow sierra]

I wonder if Bladefall is in the game^^

[ancient geyser]

damn i wanna be bladefall bladeblast archmage abuser again

[snow sierra]

Bladefall Bloodmage could be cool^^

[thick thunder]

EoW coc comet sounds good on bloodmage

[livid hamlet]

poison bladefall bladeblast assasin was my only real build

[alpine vigil]

do we know if the +1s cast time is counted in energy calculation?

I assume not

[livid hamlet]

with the elder armor giving chaos based of physical damage

[proven quest]

Eye of Winter looks really good. I'm thinking of having it on a trigger setup with Invoker so it can pickup the shocked ground from I am the Thunder and shock everything insta

[ancient geyser]

i doubt we see bladefall before shadow/duelist release tbh

maybe it's a huntress skill for all we know

[modern tangle]

mana cost scares me

[proven quest]

I'm not using it for damage so I might just keep it at level 1

[modern tangle]

It's a tier 13 gem. You can only obtain it with the highest tier uncut gem. I don't think we can get a low level one.

[dusty bear]

do you guys reckon Shockwave Totem's slam can proc volcanic fissure aftershocks?

[livid hamlet]

you will get it at level 1 still

at least how i understand

[dusty bear]

it specifically states that it can proc earthshatter's spikes so i don't see why not volcanic fissure

[livid hamlet]

it's how it worked in PoE1 , you could have had high level requirement 1st level gems

ice crash required level 28

[modern tangle]

https://www.poe2wiki.net/wiki/Gem#Skill_gem

When creating a skill gem using an uncut gem, it will be engraved at a gem level matching that of the uncut gem.

[livid hamlet]

maybe you can vendor recipe it

as with most, we will have to see

we don't even know how much of a hurdle mana manegement will be

[proven quest]

I would find it very anti-poe to not be able to control the level of your gem, but we'll see

[misty shell]

Half looking at a CoC build on monk to experiment with after I got some gear behind me and this + slower proj is on the short list.

[modern tangle]

You can control the level upwards, it's only the high tier gems that are restrictive.

[misty shell]

I'm curious about the wolf pet too, can't find anything outside of the gem.

[proven quest]

yup, CoC is going to probably be my second iteration. Going with cast on melee kill and/ or cast on shock first

[modern tangle]

That's a druid skill and won't be in EA launch.

[magic panther]

Have they said anything about if we get more passive skill tree info, like more nodes before launch?

[proven quest]

1, 2, 5, 6 (order depends on if I need more tank or damage) first, then respect 5, 6 to 8, 9 when I have more crit. If 8 and/ or 9 feel bad, try 7 and/or 4/5 with crit

[rancid olive]

Do these work together or cancel each other?

[distant glade]

Don’t think anything has been said about official reveals. It’s possible stuff gets datamined when preload starts

[modern tangle]

There is room in the wording for them to work together.

[proven quest]

Those should work together I believe

[rancid olive]

thats what i was thinking, but seems really strong if they do

[proven quest]

Specifically because eternal youth says instead of, rather than applies to

[modern tangle]

Well they're at the opposite ends of the tree. 😛

[distant glade]

Any chance something like iron will gets added lol

[livid hamlet]

You won;t get additional life recharge from energy shield recharge probably

[misty shell]

They are on complete opposite sides of the tree

[silent prawn]

Yo new build just dropped

[sterile sinew]

Does anyone know can we mule skillgems at start?

[magic panther]

I wouldn't dare guess if we can even log out on launch

[silent prawn]

if Uncut gems are not character bound you can likely put them in stash

but no muling otherwise

[proven quest]

They're only like 30 points away 😉

[modern tangle]

They're itemized. 99% expecting to do it.

[proven quest]

cast on dodge is kinda neat. I feel like that will take a while to proc though

[modern tangle]

Excited to use them together at some point as well. 🧑‍🍳

[modern tangle]

invoker was revealed to have increased energy gain ascension node, and passive tree has notable with 35% to refund half of energy on trigger.

[sterile latch]

and a ton of spirit to spend

so you can put stuff like cast on dodge xd

[proven quest]

Do you have the link for cast on dodge? I still think the math would be 3 dodges to trigger which might not feel great

[modern tangle]

I don't think we've seen the tooltip. It just appears on the list when cutting an uncut spirit gem.

[tawdry slate]

hi

[vivid meadow]

Would flame of chayula work on DOTS?

[sterile latch]

I'd take Barrier invocation before Cast on Dodge but that's just skill issue 😄

[tawdry slate]

will monks into the breach make breach rings OP?

[proven quest]

Ahh ok, there was a spoiler somewhere so I didn't know if it had the text. Wild guess is 10 energy on dodge, 10 energy cost per .1 second cast time. If it's 20 energy on dodge then I'm definitely using it

[modern tangle]

Cast on Dodge has been expected to be broken good or utterly bad all along, with little chance of being balanced. :p

[tawdry slate]

i heard in the ggg talk video that breach rings will be the best possible rings?

[silent prawn]

we are not sure if they interact.

[tawdry slate]

as in breach rings will have features unavailable to other ring types

[modern tangle]

I think breach rings don't do anything special in breach anymore, right? It was just max 50% quality everywhere?

[tawdry slate]

well it says you are considered in a breach

[proven quest]

Breach rings have up to 50% qual now rather then the poe1 double effect

[livid hamlet]

breach rings will no longer double up in breach

[upper wing]

ok from my understanding is Blood mage Sanguimancy = double resources use for skill (10 mana = 10 Health and 10 mana on use)
so if I get the Bloodmagic node, will it double (10 mana = 20 Health) or just health (10 mana = 10 Health) ?

[livid hamlet]

we're not sure but probably 10 mana = 20 health

[tawdry slate]

no, in a ggg talk a month ago john said breach rings will have the best possible side effects of any ring

[proven quest]

If it follows poe1, it'll just 10 health

[livid hamlet]

It says that they GAIN life cost equal to base mana cost

[sterile latch]

i mean, there's a very high probability that they're hiding something

[tawdry slate]

i i am thinking monk into the breach will mean monk will get 2 OP rings that are always doubled

[upper wing]

hmm I'm scared to pick blood mage as 1st char lol
I need other people to cook first

[thorny path]

There's no poe1 equivalent, it would be 20 life cost

[proven quest]

With blood magic base mana cost would be 0, so blood mage gain cost would be 0

[sterile latch]

Chayula will be op and I'll miss it cuz I dont like pacman 😭

[livid hamlet]

i'm not sure about that

[thorny path]

blood magic doesn't remove mana cost

it makes you pay it with life

the mana cost is still there so you would pay 20

[livid hamlet]

mana cost is coded into the actuall skill gem

i think it will be 20

but we don't know for sure

untill we test that

same with archamge

technically you shouldn't pay the archmage cost with life

[proven quest]

@thorny path @livid hamlet https://youtu.be/LcOnZao_ojQ?t=298

[tawdry slate]

@calm bronze yeah, chasing those things might become tiresome

[livid hamlet]

since archmage cost isn't BASE mana cost

[tawdry slate]

are state nodes considered small passives?

stat

[sterile latch]

WAIT Im stupid, it's probably just the Breach Atlas points that provides some bonuses

holy that could be good

[livid hamlet]

we will see then

[modern tangle]

[sterile latch]

like 'you drop 20% inc rarity during breach"

[proven quest]

Ya, that's why I said if it follows poe1 haha. That's the best we can do when it comes to guessing this stuff

[tiny phoenix]

Any idea what EA ascendancy might be decent for minions? Nothing looks to be useful on first glance

[upper wing]

that would be really good if it applies in poe2 holyy

[frail jay]

blood magic does remove mana cost, but blood mage gives a life cost equal to base mana cost so it doesn't care I think

[sterile latch]

"you are op af in breach"

[frail jay]

But when you take blood magic you no longer have skills that cost mana, won't work with the "lightning spells that cost mana" for mana tempest for instance

[snow sierra]

If you want offensive support for minions infernalist is you go to

[swift aspen]

any idea on how CoC will work? will it be similar to others where .1s cast time = 10 energy?

[proven quest]

Oh for sure, losing mana is always a good thing

[upper wing]

Blood mage + Bloodmagic and minionless? 🤔
kinda like Blood thingy but don't really like minion

maybe 1 or 2 skel for tank

[livid hamlet]

I honestly like invoker for summoner

nice spirit notable , and possibly a quite good defensive notable behind it

and then shocked and chilling ground

[snow sierra]

I like Chronomancer for now 😛

[proven quest]

Infernalist looks best right now imo

[livid hamlet]

Also gemling legionare will probably be very good

[modern tangle]

[tiny phoenix]

Thanks!

[livid hamlet]

It;s harder to setup good skill combos for minions, you probably want generic supports for them

so the double support use will possibly be very good for them

[tame sequoia]

Any tips on how to go about building a bleed damage bloodmage? Centered around spells ofc

[livid hamlet]

I will be running archmage

[upper wing]

hmm will Invoker node 8: critical ignore resistances apply to minion?
if yes then huge tho

[frail jay]

I don't think minion gemling will be that exceptional, it seems like you would really want to abuse getting multiple copies of limit/second wind/spell echo

[proven quest]

I can see where you're coming from, so it'd be 1, 2, 4/5, ?. Or are you just thinking 1, 2, 4, 5

[tame sequoia]

So just arcmage and then grab the blood barbs passive?

[frail jay]

Also all the persistent buff supports

[livid hamlet]

it probably won't, it doesn't for templar

[livid hamlet]

yeah 1,2,4,5

[livid hamlet]

the question here is what the meta for minions will be

if using one main minion gem for damage will the way to go, then gemling will probably be mid

[snow sierra]

My bad gut feeling tells me minions wont be meta cause they suck

[livid hamlet]

if it's something like zombies, golems, skellies and spectres

then doubling up on support gems migh be pretty strong

[livid hamlet]

they said they want summoners to be more active

[proven quest]

Gotcha. I have a feeling the Gain text might just apply to you, which would kinda suck to not get the damage from the node for minions. But the spirit from 1 is really good

[livid hamlet]

so the braindead playstyle of i AFK in the middle of blight map

will be hard to pull off probably

[ionic palm]

Hello

[frail jay]

There's gonna be different ways to play minions, I expect infernalist to easily be the best class for it though

[livid hamlet]

yeah i don't think the extra damage will apply to minions

but shocked and chilling ground will apply to the enemies that your minions are attacking

[livid hamlet]

yeah it looks like the most clear option for minions to go for right now

[snow sierra]

depends if you dont need the extra dmg from infernalist it would be all about what acendency gives you the best defensive options for the minions

[livid hamlet]

But i do think a lot of people sleep on invoker as possibility

[proven quest]

4 ascendancy points for chilled ground & % chance shocked grounds sounds a little rough

[snow sierra]

my bet is minions will die easy so chronomancer will help out here with timestome and action slow etc

[livid hamlet]

with utility, defence and spirit

[swift aspen]

what's the damage coefficient on poison?

[livid hamlet]

yeah it's mroe that you don't really have where to put them

maybe meditate when your minions kill enemies

[cinder river]

Are grenades a secondary feature of the crossbow or can you fire grenades when the crossbow isnt equipped?

[livid hamlet]

or the energy node will be usefull in setting up some loop

[proven quest]

I agree, that's why I think infernalist will be better

[livid hamlet]

probably yes

[forest hearth]

Tree : https://marcoaaguiar.github.io/poe2-tree/?a=gemling&p=Q

[livid hamlet]

just saying that invoker might be good since , well it might and no one else seemed to mention that

[frail jay]

Warbringer and Chrono and Gemling might be good for minions, hard to tell

[pseudo kayak]

I feel like the invoker's extra spirit isn't great for a minion build, since you were probably gonna use a +spirit scepter otherwise, right?

[frail jay]

I really wanna know what warbringer minions do

[proven quest]

You also have a shocked ground minion, and chilled ground support I think

[dusty bear]

more spirit more gooder

[frail jay]

It means you can use 2 other weapons though with no sceptre, might be good

[olive copper]

would you be able to proc raging spirits with unearth + added fire or naw since it still wouldnt have the fire spell tag?

[livid hamlet]

you can't gain spirit from equipment as invoker

so it depends on the numbers

[dusty bear]

ah

didn't see that

[livid hamlet]

and the availability of other affixes

[modern tangle]

see #2┃build-planning message

[frail jay]

no

[pseudo kayak]

invoker is definitely amazing +spirit for a trigger build though, since you probably wanted a proper melee weapon or bow or something

[olive copper]

what i figured

[proven quest]

I heard captainlance doing napkin math that we could get 200+ spirit end game, so it most likely is a big net positive

[cinder river]

Are grenades a secondary feature of the crossbow or can you fire grenades when the crossbow isnt out?

[livid hamlet]

from the armor node ?

[hoary plover]

grenades are s skill that requires a crossbow

[snow sierra]

I doubt invoker can work for minions, cause septers do give a insane amount of spirit for minions you cant beat that it seems

[proven quest]

ya from the body armour node

[livid hamlet]

yeah i really dislike any kind of calculations like that because we have very little idea of what the actuall numbers will be like

they might ever vary wildly in the first months

let alone from what we expect now

but i wouldn't expect this notable to be net loss

so probably you will get a substantial spirit increase, it does cost you an ascendancy point after all

[warped jackal]

So chonk poison crossbow?

[snow sierra]

it isnt when you dont use a septer

[frail jay]

I mean we know there's practically no life on tree, we know base life gain per level, and we know a rough level of life on gear

so you can kinda figure it out

[snow sierra]

its ofc for using weapons and have spirit for cast on stuff skills

[proven quest]

If bases and mods are the same in poe1 as poe2, my current in league body armour would give ~290 spirit

[cinder river]

Last question: do grenades damage you, im guessing no, but just double checking.

[frail jay]

no

nothing you use damages you unless it says

[cinder river]

thx!

[frigid hill]

notably flashbang blinds u

[modern tangle]

The evasion values are lower than armour values in poe2, at same level. So the scale has shifted. ES numbers on bases seem fairly comparable. Harder to say about modifiers.

[dry quiver]

Ok so I have a question related to damage conversion and more specifically "damage as extra"

We know that in poe 2 (correct me if I'm wrong) converted damage doesn't "remember" increases to damage from it's source element if it doesn't match the new type. So basically only base damage plus increases still relevent (e.g: damage with attacks, damage with xyz) weapon

My question is actually pretty simple: it work the same way for damage as extra ? Let's say I go Chayula monk and I deal mainly cold damage, do my chaos damage "as extra" is based on total damage dealt or does it get amputated from every cold related damage increase

Side question: what's implication when the text doesn't specifically say "as extra" ? For exemple on the Added Cold Damage the text reads "Supported Attacks Gain 25% of Damage as Cold Damage" We can find these differences in wording in a lot of place. And POE grammar being important and usually pretty accurate I'm almost certain the wether or not "as extra" is mentionned must have an impact. Does anyone know anything about this ?

[livid hamlet]

the answer is that we don't know

as for the second question, it's hard to say but it's very possible it's just wording issues because the game isn't even out yet