2┃build-planning

[brave canopy]

Interesting

[alpine vigil]

caster stuff being staves and wands?

[eternal pilot]

yeah and shields

[alpine vigil]

oh yeah lol

[dusty bear]

no foci?

oh yeah no foci

[devout dew]

im just trying to see what happened to Kirvin

unless there's someone who has more knowledge of minion builds i can talk to

[long trail]

https://poe2db.tw/Spirit_Gems#SpiritGems are the grey'd out skills not in the intial EA or do we just not have info on them yet?

[alpine vigil]

if it's anything like poe1, minions dot count as your kills lol

[eternal pilot]

Why is the earthbreaker node on titan so freaking dog shit? its like way worse then 2 points on the passive skill tree

[alpine vigil]

but that was just a poor implementation

[snow sierra]

ye i know but in the video it looks like that

[devout dew]

im just trying to get a build together

[frigid hill]

no (non-NDA breaking) info yet Hitsman

[alpine vigil]

They were seen in the skill gem menus but not hovered over

[snow sierra]

like slow down and look at the video at 0.25 speed the minion clearly kills the mob there and a blood orb spawns

[long trail]

wicked thanks

[alpine vigil]

ghost dance as a spirit gem is crazy

[devout dew]

im sry if im being annoying - just wanted to talk to someone who knows better than me regarding Witch and Minion builds

[frigid hill]

yea crazy. especially if it only costs 30 spirit

[olive tide]

what are the questions about minions? maybe some other ppl know or can be helpful

[alpine vigil]

This list of unknown spirit gems really comforts me in playing invoker

[snow sierra]

I doubt someone can help you make a minion build at this stage, we just dont know enough to give build adivice from poe 2

[alpine vigil]

I was afraid I'd have 200 unused spirit

Surely there will be something good in there

[devout dew]

this for starters

should i only have 2 skeletal minions

or more

and the Bind Spectre has Meat Shield and Infernal Legion tied in it

[snow sierra]

Any anwser you get to this question will be pure speculation

[eternal pilot]

No clue but I would probably play gemling for a minion build atleast. two of each support gem just souds like it can have some pretty busted combos

[dusty bear]

same, i was thinking of taking that ascendancy to grab a bunch of auras and triple herald but realized triple herald is less than half the base spirit xdd

[devout dew]

im leaning towards Witch sadly

[dusty bear]

do we know if applying shock to an already shocked target will replace it? for the purposes of cast on shock, invoker unbound avatar, etc

[alpine vigil]

are we certain we can't slot the same support twice in the same skill?

[vivid meadow]

Anyone knows if spiritual aid/spiritual command will be a thing too?

[eternal pilot]

No I wouldnt count on that

[alpine vigil]

let me hope

[vivid meadow]

Doesn't it literally state that you can use the same support gem twice in different skills?

[alpine vigil]

oh you're right shit

[frail jay]

I mean that's what I would run, but obviouslyt you'll need to test the minions

[alpine vigil]

GGG boring company

[vivid meadow]

I'll try myself on doing popcorn srs

[frigid hill]

so im not a minion guy but this is what Iks posted some time ago, could give u some inspiration
https://shorturl.at/t6Bd7

[frail jay]

TBH looking at support gems and how that might be strong, the standouts are: 1) Limit Increase (can run multiple limit skills and increase the limit on both, like firestorm + lightning storm, or Ancestral Totem + Shockwave Totem). 2) Spell Echo (it's VERY STRONG with triggered skills). 3) Buff supports like vitality and clarity if you can get multiple persistent buffs. 4) Second Wind (cooldown focused build, maybe grenades?)

[alpine vigil]

Do we have any information around shock triggers and shocking grounds?

Do we gain energy every single time an enemy walks into a shocking ground?

[static plinth]

Theyd have to walk out and back in

[alpine vigil]

Same for other ailments

[frigid hill]

"with a hit"

[alpine vigil]

Arf

Ty

[frigid hill]

yea unfortunate

EoW can eat the shocked ground and shock that way, thats what im hoping to do

[alpine vigil]

Now other question, what about consuming ailments and grounds? Is that possible?

Like shockchain arrow and shocked ground

[frigid hill]

no way to know for sure, if we're lucky viperesque could answer it

im hoping to consume shocked status from ground effects

[royal badge]

Would it be troll to go deadeye without frenzy? Tailwind and Endless Munitions

[static plinth]

In PoE1 you can consume but the yhave to walk off and back on to be re-inflicted

[alpine vigil]

Ah makes sense

[hoary plover]

for what skills?

[royal badge]

Not RoA

( I don't like RoA)

[umbral pier]

do we have a curse/mark limit in poe 2?

[alpine vigil]

roa got a near *0.5 nerf already

[alpine vigil]

1 of each by default

separated

[royal badge]

a 0.5* nerf in the recent CBT or something?

[alpine vigil]

from the screenshot we saw from LA testing iirc it was 53 arrows at 168% at lv 14

now it's like 34 arrows at 128% at lv 9

I assume effectiveness is unchanged but still huge nerf

[frigid hill]

sheesh

[alpine vigil]

There's no way arrow count scales with levels

[royal badge]

yeah that's a big nerf

[static plinth]

I mean there is way

[umbral pier]

hmm i really wanna start hand of chayula

[frigid hill]

hand of chayula + hexblast

[alpine vigil]

My friend plans to go with that but I don't see why not just go blasphemy

You'll end up in melee anyway

[umbral pier]

cuz i wanna dash

[frigid hill]

(you're right) bu-b-but new skill

[woven otter]

Do we know what implications there are, if any, for acolyte of chayula ascendancy making you considered in a breach?

[velvet blade]

Maybe extra bonuses from the breach map tree

[static plinth]

Not currently, but yeah maybe that

[frigid hill]

not that im aware of, assumedly there's mods like the breach rings in poe1

[woven otter]

So chance at breach rings all the time? Lool

[maiden karma]

Good question, since they changed breach ring gimmick to just 50% quality cap

[frigid hill]

nah, i meant poe1 breach rings give u more stats when ur in a breach, poe2 might have similar things

[velvet blade]

Breach rings work differently now though. There's no effect while in a breach if I understand but they can be qualitied up to 50%

[woven otter]

That would be cool

[void owl]

Aang build when

[vivid meadow]

Me thinking about a gimmicky ED+Contagion build...

[maiden karma]

What I'm really curious about is how armour break consuming skills work when they also break armour

[velvet blade]

Yeah, also is the damage of that skill calculated before or after the monster gets their armour back

[vagrant gorge]

Warcrys are not spells correct? Curious if spell echo would by synergistic

[hoary plover]

i would imagine armor is regrown after damage, otherwise whats the point

[maiden karma]

Whether it breaks first and then consumes or consumes and breaks after could change a lot of things

[velvet blade]

Right, warcries are warcries

[maiden karma]

Also what about warbringer's negative break getting consumed

[royal badge]

Does anyone have a Point Blank Deadeye shotgun build that they could show me as a starting point?

[umbral pier]

I will assume before, it doesn't make sense that it nerfs its own damage.

[umbral pier]

no builds bro, tree isn't even out

[velvet blade]

Yeah, I reeeaally want to know what's on this tooltip

[royal badge]

pepehands

[umbral pier]

maybe it's just negative armor

[velvet blade]

Yeah, but we don't know how armour works in poe2 yet

[alpine vigil]

Surely they're not going to revamp it all

[velvet blade]

Yeah

[maiden karma]

I may or may not have come up with a way to abuse this node extremely hard

[alpine vigil]

Maybe a few tweaks in the formula but I doubt anything crazy

[velvet blade]

I think they're completely changing how armour is calculated

[frigid hill]

armour cant give more than 90% PDR, im kind of assuming negative armour cant go beyond -90% PDR

pure guess tho

[velvet blade]

It'll still be physical reduction, but I don't think it'll work like poe1

[dusty bear]

so this hits 1 enemy and applies shards in an aoe?

[velvet blade]

Yeah, this would make sense

[maiden karma]

Yeah but that's still potentially 90% more damage

[frigid hill]

yea im a warbringer believer

[snow sierra]

maybe the armor the mob has can go the same value in negativ

[velvet blade]

Ooo that would make a lot of sense

But not lower

[maiden karma]

If there's no cap then corrosive poisons will shred everything

[velvet blade]

Yeah, it would be busted if there's no limit to how low you could make armour unless it had serious diminishing returns

I think Nischana might be right about the limit being the monster's max armour just negative

[snow sierra]

well i would assume its 90% or my guess but who knows

[frigid hill]

you are likely capped by the duration of the broken armour, so it cant go infinite anyway

unless breaking armour refreshes broken armour

[maiden karma]

Because of the node before it, it's a ramping loop of breaking armour makes you do more damage and break more armour

And corrosion will ramp it up even harder

[frigid hill]

there's also the Splinter support

[velvet blade]

Do you guys know if the cast time on flameblast is the time it takes to gain a stage?

Of is that a fixed value

[neon kindle]

I was thinking ancestral warrior totem + armour breaker + increased armour break, then you can main skill whatever you want

[frigid hill]

yea was considering that as well

and if the broken armour is on a duration u can Consume it before it runs out with sunder or hammer of the gods

[warped rampart]

I just saw the ascendency list but it doesn't look like there's any ascendencies that are summoner specific for the witch do u guys have any suggestions on which path to choose?

[maiden karma]

Funny thing is if you go for the spirit node you can put bleed support on them amd enjoy free bloodlust on your main skill

[frigid hill]

infernalist looks decent for minions

[warped rampart]

Thought about that too

[snow sierra]

I would say at the moment you can play alot with minions, since offensive support for minions is kinda meh

[warped rampart]

But wish there was a thing that enabled minions to do fire damage or something lol

[fading jacinth]

I don't see any life nodes on the skill tree

[maiden karma]

Take a shot every time someone points out there is no dedicated minion ascendancy for a quick and easy way out

[warped rampart]

😦

[neon kindle]

great, isn't it!

[snow sierra]

I am torn between Bloodmage and Chronomancer for my minion league starter xD

[maiden karma]

There literally is tho

[frigid hill]

X% increased [Defence] is the new life nodes i reckon

[warped rampart]

Is there?

Oh seething body

Yeah could try it out

[maiden karma]

Don't really see the point of that node tbh

[warped rampart]

Rly?

[maiden karma]

All you need is the spirit and ES beidat nodes and the dog

[frigid hill]

#2┃build-planning message i'd go for this

[warped rampart]

Hmmm

[snow sierra]

ye that seems a save bet if you want some offensive support for a minion build

[maiden karma]

The amount of people who completely ignore their own survivability on minion builds is staggering

[warped rampart]

It's a struggle lel

[frigid hill]

imo mana b4 es since we don't know if we have any shavronnes stuff

[maiden karma]

Don't need shavs

[snow sierra]

But i just dont wanna reserve me life thats seems scuffed as hell to build around

[frigid hill]

the node before beidat's will etc converts phys to chaos, doesn't that penetrate es?

[maiden karma]

There's nothing scuffed about it

Not anymore

[frigid hill]

only poison bleed huh?

[maiden karma]

Chaos now does double damage to ES instead of going through

[snow sierra]

and double dmg from chaos

[frigid hill]

you'd have to solve that at least, MoM doesn't care about it

[snow sierra]

and poisen and bleed punsh thru it

[frigid hill]

later on ES is stronger though i agree

[maiden karma]

Bleed doesn't go through

[alpine vigil]

they do now iirc

[frigid hill]

i believe it does

[maiden karma]

Not exactly

[snow sierra]

ye my last info was poisen and bleed to thru ES

[maiden karma]

Hitting the ES won't cause bleeding

[frigid hill]

??

that sounds so scuffed, are you saying bleed builds cant do anything to mobs with ES?

[maiden karma]

If your life gets hit and you start bleeding, even if you recover your ES the bleed will continue damaging life

[alpine vigil]

Apparently even if you heal your ES it keeps going through

[kindred sigil]

Good to know. Thats my plan too

[alpine vigil]

So it goes through but if you have enough ES it shouldn't proc at all

Makes sense

[frigid hill]

u guys have a source on this? sounds bizarre to me

[alpine vigil]

https://www.poe2wiki.net/wiki/Bleeding Don't know the actual actual source

[frigid hill]

hmm

[maiden karma]

And besides, bleed and poison charms exist

[short rover]

what am I misunderstanding about this because it seems to me with the way ailments in PoE2 work, this would make literally any elemental spell able to inflict bleed as if it was a full physical hit? and that cannot be right

[native widget]

Thats what it means yes

[frigid hill]

u still need the chance% to bleed

but all damage types in the hit that bleeds, contribute to the damage of the bleed

well elemental in this case

[short rover]

what the fuck thats broken

[native widget]

Yeah

[frigid hill]

it looks nice with sunder

[native widget]

It only contributes to the magnitude not the ailment threshold

[frigid hill]

infernal cry, 400% crit bonus

[maiden karma]

Bleed doesn't do threshold apparently

Allegedly bleed and poison use the same system as in 1 for whatever reason

[thin basin]

Need to use chance to bleed gem

Which is i think 80% chance at max? Maybe

[short rover]

there's gotta be a mildly broken build with Flameblast ignites also inflicting huge bleeds with this somewhere

[thin basin]

Aint no pathing down there to grab like 2 bleed wheel

[maiden karma]

Spells got nothing on sunder

[devout dew]

anyone have a Witch Minion Fire build?

[maiden karma]

No

[thin basin]

Replace fire pen with elemental focus, i dont think bleed count as ailment?

[short rover]

no one has a full build of any kind, we all just have concepts of a plan

[maiden karma]

Bleed is an ailment

[thin basin]

Ah then use some generic dmg stuff then

Or gmp whatever

[frigid hill]

elemental focus works

bleed is not an elemental ailment

[thin basin]

I wonder how smooth gemswap is for mob/bossing if i only plan to run 1 button setup

[short rover]

are one button setups even a thing in poe2, seems like they really went hard in making that suboptimal

[frigid hill]

where there's a will there's a way

[thin basin]

Meet optimal-suboptimal man!

[maiden karma]

Corrosive sunder has entered the chat

[frigid hill]

surely sunder warbringer is anti synergy, no?

[maiden karma]

Depends

[frigid hill]

or at least, not ur main way to break armour

the first hit after it breaks would consume it

assumptions of course

[maiden karma]

It would, but if you got corrosive poison on it then it would immediately start melting armour

[frigid hill]

mmm

time will tell i suppose

[maiden karma]

This isn't really for warbringer tho

It would be absolutely stupid on PF tho

Actually

Why am I even looking at warbringer when this exists

[lofty grotto]

This offsets acrobatics by far

holy smokes

[maiden karma]

What would be tankier tho, PF flasks or chonk

[frigid hill]

less =/= increased

[maiden karma]

Sorry but that chest doesn't offset anything

[frigid hill]

idk how to even explain it

[lofty grotto]

is there any site where can I understand wording?

[maiden karma]

The wiki is a good start

[lofty grotto]

so one is multiplicative one is additive yes?

[frigid hill]

yep

[misty shell]

https://youtu.be/f6bMkVHFrI4?si=MdK8bVZkS879UJl_

12:00 ish for the more/additional

[frigid hill]

ah there u go

[lofty grotto]

i mean couldn't they just put x instead of +, in the item/skill stats?

[frigid hill]

well its a bit more complicated than that

im sure the video explains it better than i can

[lofty grotto]

using whole formule would be best

[maiden karma]

That would get confusing when you realise that + is better for crit chance

[hidden meteor]

which build/archtype seems like a best bet for softcore at the moment? 😄

[dusty bear]

do we know if it's possible to re-apply shock to a shocked enemy? for the purposes of cast on shock, unbound avatar, pcharge on shock etc

[frigid hill]

softcore and hardcore are closer in poe2

[maiden karma]

The one that sounds coolest to you

[silent prawn]

In softcore play what you like

[maiden karma]

It is in 1

[misty shell]

While game is mid core now :P

[dusty bear]

yeah, do i assume it is in 2 as well?

[hidden meteor]

i might try bloodmage and monk.. both sound cool lol

[frigid hill]

hell yea

[maiden karma]

I haven't seen any mentions of it being changed so it's probably safe to assume it wasn't

[dusty bear]

sick, dream still alive

[snow sierra]

As explained in the zizz inverview it should be possible

[maiden karma]

In 1 all ailments can stack, but only the strongest ones actually do anything

[dusty bear]

oh did ziz talk about that? didn't see that interview

[snow sierra]

since all debuff go in a "stack" and only the strongst is applyed that suggest that ailments get applyed but do nothing

so in the backend every instance to shock you do should be on the enemy while only one is active

[dusty bear]

yup, wasn't sure it'd be the same in poe 2, thanks

[snow sierra]

atleast Jonathan explained that way in the interview

[lofty grotto]

while we are at basics, anointing allows for double stacking notables or it's purely for getting node from another side of the tree?

[maiden karma]

No doubling

[lofty grotto]

thought so

[native widget]

so if a skill has cannot crit, and gurantees a crit at the same time, i would assume it still will not crit right?

[lofty grotto]

yes

[maiden karma]

Yes, but what skill are you talking about

[frigid hill]

resolute technique maybe

[native widget]

elemental storm with biting frost support

[frigid hill]

elemental storm can't crit?

[native widget]

yes

[frigid hill]

i guess that makes sense, so it cant trigger itself

[native widget]

lol i dont wanna post it here cuz its techniquely not public

[frigid hill]

ah i getcha

[native widget]

but it cant crit

anyways, the base duration is 5 seconds,

which means if you take both elemental storm nodes you can have 3 elemental storm active at the same time?

[frigid hill]

idk what the CD is so cant say

[maiden karma]

There are high odds this information is inaccurate

[native widget]

i think they are pretty accurate

cuz all the accendency leaks match up exactly to ggg anouncement

[alpine vigil]

the same kind of leaks was posted before the official ascendancies and they all match

[native widget]

so why would this be inaccurate

[maiden karma]

No lol

[alpine vigil]

Yes they do

[maiden karma]

Tons of them are nerfed compared to the leak

[alpine vigil]

The leak was yesterday

Not prior

The stuff before was LA event

[livid hamlet]

Honestly i wanted to run Witchhunter but bleed elemental bloodmage got me feeling some kind of way

[native widget]

even then, its just numbers change

the mechanic likely will not

[lofty grotto]

now that's very good video
Thank you kindly
It skips basic stuff and just slams about PoE specyfic stuff

[maiden karma]

Yes, tons of nodes are nerfed compared to yesterday's leak

Within the span of hours

[alpine vigil]

which ones?

[native widget]

the cd is also 5 seconds btw

[livid hamlet]

For example gem quality on legionare

Was 12% now its 10

[icy turtle]

gore spike

[alpine vigil]

it was correctly leaked as 10%

[native widget]

but with the second elemental storm node the cd go down to 2 second

[cedar river]

Kripp predicts that Gemling, Titan and the Chronomancer are all better ascendencies for minions than Infernalist

[maiden karma]

The beidat nodes come to mind immediately

[lofty grotto]

total 8 ascendancy points like in PoE1, yes?

[frigid hill]

sounds like u could have 3 storms then yea, or more if u run Cooldown Support

[native widget]

yea

[livid hamlet]

Is Kripp someone that we should trust ? I don't know him in PoE space tbg

[frigid hill]

candles lit and oj poured

[maiden karma]

He's a washed up OG

[frigid hill]

just like me

[livid hamlet]

Legionare should be good for minions but the pathing will be problematic

[alpine vigil]

Ah true that one is

[frigid hill]

kripp is going gemling minions? classic

[native widget]

damn i need more accendency node lmao

i want like 8 of them

its actually hard to decide

all nodes on stormweaver are so good

[cedar river]

He predicts that this node will be very good for minions https://marcoaaguiar.github.io/poe2-tree/?a=gemling&p=HIZgbGQ

[lofty grotto]

In my newbie understanding wouldn't Gemling be the worst ascendancy to aim for early game lifecycle?
It looks like class which benefints from complex skill combos and interactions, while other ones just promote envisoned playstyle/usage by GGG?

[native widget]

uhhhh

maybe

we cant get much life tho so

it might not be that good

[livid hamlet]

Infernalist will defo be easier

[cedar river]

@lofty grotto Hmm, Gemling looks really strong, but its a generalist in sense that it will work for nearly every arche type

[livid hamlet]

Get tankiness and spirit

And pathing isnt shit

[oblique mantle]

How many ascendancy points will we have on total?

[frigid hill]

8

[cedar river]

Personally im not leaning toward Gemling for first character

[snow sierra]

dunno i kinda hate infernalist unless you rly want to lean into the fire theme

[maiden karma]

You can easily play infernalist without any of the fire nodes

[frigid hill]

u get doggy, PDR, spirit, mana/es

[lofty grotto]

my point is that becouse is generalist the class/ascendency will get stronger with increased community's game and theorycraft knowledge

[cedar river]

yes I think that as well

We also got ascendencies like Witchhunter which have some skills that are really good regardless of gear

[hoary plover]

stun is just inherent right? doesn't need a gem or anything?

[frigid hill]

correct

[hoary plover]

any damage? only phys?

[frigid hill]

melee gets a 25% buff to stun, non-phys damage gets 25% nerf

[livid hamlet]

For minions its great, just a shitload of tankiness And spirit And doge

[frigid hill]

some skills & supports increase stun by a lot

[hoary plover]

ah is it only melee then or just a bonus?

[frigid hill]

bonus

[hoary plover]

so bow titan is possible...

[snow sierra]

dunno to me it looks like Minions will have enough dmg without any acendency or be just bad, the dmg buffs from Infernalist dos not seem this big

[cedar river]

Kripp predicts that most of the bonus spirit that you will get will be reserved for the dog

[livid hamlet]

Xbow probably for flashbang stuns

[frigid hill]

the dog is free though

[cedar river]

Is that confirmed?

[snow sierra]

And that would mean i can pick just any acendency i like for my defensive needs

[maiden karma]

Yes

[livid hamlet]

@cedar river Kripp can predict all he wants but all ascendancy skills are free so I dont care much for his opinion on that

[cedar river]

so 2500 life is like 100 extra spirit

[maiden karma]

Ascendancy and item skills don't cost any spirit reserve

[frigid hill]

i love kripp but his recent track record isn't amazing

[lofty grotto]

last qustion about poison skills
I know the poison itself is chaos damage
But projectile/skill damage which applies it is also chaos or it does physical damage (in PoE2 bow's case)

[frigid hill]

take his suggestions with a pinch of salt

[cedar river]

The thing about Kripp is that he got nerve dmg in his arms so he don't play that much poe any longer due to that

[maiden karma]

Both phys and chaos damage work for poison

[frigid hill]

yea unfortunate

[snow sierra]

Can Minions in PoE 2 crit ?

[maiden karma]

They can in 1 so probably same here

[cedar river]

I'm very interested in minions, but I think I will do it as a second or third build

[snow sierra]

And can it be scaled alongside with my own crit ?

[maiden karma]

Not really

[frigid hill]

no they have their own crit

[cedar river]

Atm I'm leaning towards Witchhunter as first

[frigid hill]

only stuff like uh Malice would work, as it buffs u both

[maiden karma]

Minion crit is extremely rare

[snow sierra]

dam i kinda want to make bloodmage work with minions

[maiden karma]

Although they did show a sceptre with crit weakness aura so maybe that'll change

Bloodmage got nothing for minions

[snow sierra]

it got awsome defensive notes

[cedar river]

This node could be huge for minions

[vestal sinew]

Anyone have any idea how the Ranger will get their chicken mount thing?

[maiden karma]

It's a skill gem

[snow sierra]

At the moment there is no acendency that gives a massiv dmg boost to minions like Necro used to do, so i would assume minions are fine without support from a acendency if you specc into them in the tree

[lofty grotto]

so to get it right

(initial physical damage x physical mods mods) => (poison x poison/chaos mods)
or
(initial physical x poison mods x physical mods) => poison damage

[maiden karma]

Poison works differently in 2 according to Viperesque
Now the damage of the poison will scale off the hit, so if you're using a physical skill then you want to use physical damage increases

And chaos for chaos

[native widget]

is it limited to bows or can spell casters also?

[thorny path]

only stay mounted for bow attacks apparently

[lofty grotto]

poison is chaos damage too right?

[olive tide]

chayula monk poison flciker strike log in

[maiden karma]

Technically yeah

[thorny path]

poison is chaos damage but it doesn't scale with %increased chaos damage stuff

doesn't double dip

[hoary plover]

total physical + total chaos damage before enemy mitigation (resists etc) = poison damage which can then be modified by modifiers to poison damage specifically

"poison effect" etc

[maiden karma]

Viper did say they were considering changing poison to straight up be "poison damage" instead of chaos

[frigid hill]

demon form + MoM + Eternal Youth looks vry nice

[olive tide]

isnt poison based on the combined phys/chaos hit?

[hoary plover]

yes

[maiden karma]

Wut

The hell is deflect

[proud canopy]

if I had to guess it's maybe staff/dual wield block?

[olive tide]

thats how i feel seeing all these new things

[thorny path]

attack + spell suppression

replacement to suppression

[native widget]

wth is this

[static plinth]

We dont know but yeah probably attack suppression

[static plinth]

A resonator

[native widget]

what for

[static plinth]

Crafting

[alpine vigil]

bigass thundercubes is what for

[proud canopy]

careful with those Dimensional Strangles

[livid hamlet]

K R A N G L E D

This became like The Meme on PoE reddit 3 years ago

[native widget]

guys, damage from archmage can shock right?

[static plinth]

Yeah its lightning damage

[livid hamlet]

I feel like Archmage Tempest caller

Will work quite well

[native widget]

yes

[livid hamlet]

Honestly theres so much stuff here holy crap

[native widget]

is there a cold spell thats really good for single target?

[livid hamlet]

Archmage bloodmage will just kill me right? It converts flat mana cost to life cost

Probably

[native widget]

maybe

maybe not tho

wait

prob not

[livid hamlet]

That's how it worked in PoE so I will assume that's the case here

I Mean even if not, it will hit hard

[native widget]

bloodmage node says base cost

pretty sure archmage doesnt add to base cost

so

[livid hamlet]

Oh shit son

Archmage Bleed Bloodmage something

[native widget]

[livid hamlet]

Now that sounds dank and hipster enough game start eith

But only one skill can be supported by archmage right ?

[tawny rivet]

no it's a buff

a support skill supports one skill

[livid hamlet]

Oh , that's nice

Yeah honestly that sounds like an interesting and viable enough build

[nimble zinc]

So it has dawned on me that you can build Blood Mage as a str stacking melee build

[livid hamlet]

That I kinda want to try it out

Blood mage is great with everything

Same with the waterfall guy

And witchhunter

Probably gemling too

[nimble zinc]

You get the Crit Damage, the Progen, the Bleed and extra damage, and whatever else you want

Then just go get Blood Magic to remove the mana costs entirely

[tawny rivet]

i'll do archmage, manatempest, sigil of powe, for buffs and do a chain lightning build with storm orb, and arc or ball of lightning

will prob change when i play the actual game

[livid hamlet]

Tho scaling both bleed and archmage can be hard

[nimble zinc]

Oh my first build will be entirely for fun and learning how the game works. I'll probably reroll after a week and make a real build

[livid hamlet]

We will see

[tawny rivet]

not sure archmage will work

it buffs based on max mana, if you don't have mana

its a bit fked

[nimble zinc]

I was actually wondering if Archmage would work with Chayula Monk leeching mana

I just can't figure out where Mana Leech exists at.

[frigid hill]

supposedly only from gear & support gems

maybe jewels if we're lucky but i'd guess no

[nimble zinc]

There's lots of multipliers for mana leech on the tree. Just no direct sources yet

[tawny rivet]

mana leech as in mana sustain outside of mana regen?

[nimble zinc]

The fact that nothing sounds perfect but it all sounds close to being great is probably exactly where the game needs to be

Mana Leech as in Chayula doubles down and leeched ES too

So you just take ES increases and Mana Leech/Mana nodes. You can also use Eternal Youth to make your Life Flask affect your ES

Solves Mana, solves ES largely

[tawny rivet]

what's chayula

something for monk?

[nimble zinc]

Yea

The Chaos Ascendancy

[nimble zinc]

I think the Darkness feels a bit like a trap but the Mana interactions are gonna be good

[frigid hill]

ya darkness does not look good on paper

gotta be a way to scale it idk how

[sterile latch]

56 looks so crazy

[nimble zinc]

I was thinking you take 1256 or 1235

[frigid hill]

me go 1 4 5 6

[tawny rivet]

if it's something you get from accendency then I get the same thing from stormweaver, I get like a 80% mana regen increase from one node

[nimble zinc]

And focus on stacking raw ES and use mana leech and Eternal Youth to restore it

[frigid hill]

dont need ES when u can go MoM imo

[olive tide]

how are people expecting to generate power charges? siphon strike or killing palm?

[native widget]

Can you only cast cold snap on frozen targets?

[midnight bolt]

my only issue with that is stun threshold they didnt show any resources for mom bulds

[frigid hill]

that's fair

[frigid hill]

or frost bolts i think

[nimble zinc]

Siphoning Strike if you want to use Monk too. Power Charges seem like more of a lightning focus feature

[native widget]

But like, how would it work with spell echo support

[frigid hill]

you'd need targets for the repeats i assume

[tawny rivet]

there is also a node that will start the ES recharge instantly based on 10% when casting a spell,

[olive tide]

what are we using to shock dudes?

[native widget]

does power charge still grant crit chance?

[frigid hill]

not by default

[long trail]

What are the axis to scale corrupting cry damage? Strength for the base damage, % phys, % damage, and damage over time multi or whatever the poe2 equivalent of that is called. Anything Im missing? Bleeding dmg doesnt help because its corrupting blood not bleeding right?

[frigid hill]

increased damage taken on enemies

from w/e sources u can find

[granite kettle]

I just heard Blasphemy got nerfed apparently. Anyone knows the source and if it's true? 🥺

[dusty bear]

doesn't seem like siphoning strike can't shock so probably that (unless tooltip gets updated), so just get shock chance for that. Might hit 1-2 times raw before you shock then start engine

[frail jay]

We don't even know if corrupting cry stacks

[nimble zinc]

Not sure. I haven't really looked into Lightning Monk yet. I like the Utility if Freezing

[dusty bear]

Do we know how easy it would be to freeze enemies if I got a 6L dedicated to that?

[thorny path]

Nobody knows anything

[nimble zinc]

I don't think it will be overly difficult to freeze normal enemies based on footage.

[frail jay]

Frenzy charge conversion keystone with CoC sniper's mark and something like EoW

[long trail]

There is a point in the reveal where the player gets hit by it, it stacks and refreshes duration

[frigid hill]

cast on melee kill profane ritual could be interesting

not vry good vs bosses tho

[nimble zinc]

Profane Ritual I was also wondering how we could use it to get Charges

[frail jay]

Oh yeah sniper's mark does have a 6s CD

[long trail]

Can you life leech the physical damage from something like corrupted blood?

[nimble zinc]

Not if it's like PoE1

[frigid hill]

can only leech from hits

[long trail]

gotcha makes sense

[olive tide]

100 spirit res for coc seems steep

[frigid hill]

there's NDA information that makes warbringer warcry build potentially playable though

[viscid escarp]

Looks like the Merc tree can get to 100% chance to bleed on hit, has bleed been a good source of extra damage in poe?

[nimble zinc]

Im honestly looking at Arctic Armor as a defensive layer. Stack that bad boy up with increased freeze buildup so when something hits you they insta freeze

[atomic vault]

Two questions. 1. Do we know what sources of Exposure we have available to trigger Scouring Winds? 2. Do we know if normal monsters have resistances in PoE2 such that a ascendency node would be beneficial on them?

[midnight bolt]

how is it not already op with what we know

[long trail]

Im rocking it in HC either way, just fingers crossed its at least playable lol

[midnight bolt]

just spam warcry and stampede

ez win

[frigid hill]

well that's a stampede build

[long trail]

Why stampede out of curiosity?

[frigid hill]

im sayin warcry only

[nimble zinc]

Just scream at people until they die?

[frigid hill]

YEAH

[midnight bolt]

it looks absolutely absurd with shockwave support cause youll create shockwave and jagged ground on every step and then jagged ground explodes in the end

[long trail]

Ah interesting, it can be exerted I assume? Make use of that aspect of the warcrying as well. Wonder how attack speed interacts with that skill

[midnight bolt]

yes it can be

and everything that didnt die from stampede will die from cry corpse explosion

[nimble zinc]

I think a lot of people who play PoE1 on a regular basis are going to just have a hard time with any of these abilities that we have to interact with like the blood orbs and the breach things

[long trail]

Might be a better source of secondary damage than totems which is the other option is looks like

[tawny rivet]

nice the day the early access comes out I have an 11 hour hospital shift

[nimble zinc]

I took a half day so I could sit in queue and take it in

[midnight bolt]

hahah i saw so many people already crying abt it, same with time reversal poe1 players refuse to use smth good if its not zooming forward

[long trail]

do we have info on what jagged ground does exactly?

[midnight bolt]

it slows and can be exploded with stamped/eq and other slam skills

[long trail]

wicked

[nimble zinc]

I'm looking at that build and thinking there's probably some stacking slows and time freezes that will make that build so insanely good at clearing safely

[livid hamlet]

How much spirit will we have ?

[frail jay]

like 200-500

[livid hamlet]

Hmm, not like archmage bleed mage needs it

[native widget]

sooo the sup gems that sup cast on x shouldnt affect the amount of energy it takes to trigger right?

[nimble zinc]

Do we know what a general endgame build is going to have as far as life and manual values?

[native widget]

only modifying the mana cost

[livid hamlet]

Im kinda dissapointed i thought there would be more defensive auras

[nimble zinc]

Like 5k life was considered properly decent in PoE1

[livid hamlet]

@nimble zinc that depended wildly in PoE 1 even

[vivid meadow]

Anyone got ideas for gemling?

[livid hamlet]

And we have no idea how important it will be here

[frail jay]

Totem Gemling

with grenades

[atomic halo]

gems maybe

[nimble zinc]

Yea there were life stacking builds with 10k+ and stuff. But that was considered an outlier. But some of these abilities SOUND good based on PoE numbers but we don't actually know

[frail jay]

You get the double support gems node and put +1 limit on both totems and then you get second wind and put it on 2 grenade skills so you can spam them when you need to burst

[livid hamlet]

@vivid meadow hammer of God bleed or ignite , blood of the giants for double wielding two weapons and efficiently both clearing and single target, full str stack with not needing other attributes

[frail jay]

if you're playing hammer of the gods it makes more sense to run chrono I think

[livid hamlet]

Yeah but it's harder to run good supports for both clear and single target

And it's harder to fully stack strength with Giants blood

[olive tide]

for power charge generation, cant we just make this skill shock with supports? or do you think theyll limit this to not be able to cause shock for some reason

[frail jay]

also idk about giants blood outside of special dual wield skills, running it with hammer of the gods is just bad isn't it?

[pseudo bone]

Been wondering about Totems, attack Totems have base damage, so are most main hands just not impactful? Would any of the local affixes apply?

[frail jay]

Do we even have any skills atm that combine damage from both hands?

[midnight bolt]

yep, im only worried abt leech they havent showed any elemental leech

[livid hamlet]

I assumed it adds the weapon damage, since it kinda sounds like a spell

[atomic halo]

sunder

[frail jay]

Yeah sunder

[livid hamlet]

If it just uses one weapon then yeah it sucks

[frail jay]

giants blood is just for sunder basically

[livid hamlet]

Someone will have to test that

[wet granite]

what build u guys going for?

[frail jay]

Probably elemental invocation invoker

[livid hamlet]

It doesn't say anything about main weapon , alternating weapons or something like that

[nimble zinc]

We don't even know what all affixes can roll on everything so it's hard to say. So many gaps.

[frail jay]

dual wield alternates weapons unless it says otherwise

[livid hamlet]

Possibly archmage bleed blood mage

[frail jay]

it only combines weapon damage if the skill says

like sunder

[nimble zinc]

Curious how you want to stack life and mana at the same time here?

[livid hamlet]

Hmm then yeah probably mid idea

[nimble zinc]

I like the idea though

[livid hamlet]

I dont need to stack a lot of life tho

Just the regular amount

[frail jay]

giants blood sunder looks like it will hit super hard though

[livid hamlet]

I'm not going crit

[frail jay]

sunder autocrits broken armor and has +100% crit damage bonus

[livid hamlet]

So blood magic, bleed from elemental, leech from spells and maven flask node

[long trail]

Can supports go in meta gems?

[frail jay]

hmm blood magic blood mage is an idea...

[livid hamlet]

The blood magic ascendancy notable says it converts BASE cost of skills, so archmage might not be converted

[frail jay]

Man I really just don't know how expensive EI is gonna be

I feel like it's going to delete my mana

[livid hamlet]

I mean with archmage I defo won't go blood Magix keystone , but yeah for regular caster that sounds pretty decent

[frigid hill]

yes, they'd support the skill the meta gem is triggering

[ancient geyser]

this is likely

[livid hamlet]

Albeit infernalist is better solution if you don't want to care about mana

I feel like

[long trail]

wicked

[frail jay]

Yeah the main issue with that is infernalist defenses seem bad unless you're minions

tbh even then infernalist defenses idk

[ancient geyser]

isn't hellhound crazy?

it doesn't even cost spirit

[livid hamlet]

But for an elemental caster I feel like the storm ascendancy or waterfall monk

Will be best

[snow sierra]

i plan bloodmage or chronomancer minion build because i dont like infernalist defensess

[warped kayak]

defenses seem bad for alot of classes tbf

[livid hamlet]

I would go blood mage for bleed spells or for attacks

[nimble zinc]

I think Monk will be good but it will take some time to figure it out.

[ancient geyser]

i might be crazy but i think infernalist has some of the best defenses in the game

[left grail]

do we have actual stats on demon form?

[frail jay]

yeah the stats are -2 weapon slots so it's shit

[nimble zinc]

Monk will almost certainly be a combo class

[ancient geyser]

20% flat DR, 20% flat phys DR if you run CI with the dmg conversion to fire and chaos thingy

and even if you don't run CI being able to mitigate phys dmg that you won't be able to stack defensives for with just res is so good

[frigid hill]

what are ur other asc nodes then though

[frail jay]

CI Infernalist

[frigid hill]

i guess u remove mana

[ancient geyser]

yeah i'd grab mana removal and then the one that gives you more dmg or more crit dmg, maybe demon form even depending on the build

[frail jay]

isn't the chaos res cap like 10% in poe2?

[ancient geyser]

hellhound is for sure bis

[frigid hill]

cant demon form with CI

[ancient geyser]

no what, it's 75%

[ancient geyser]

yeah you wouldn't do CI demon form, that's why i said it depends on the build

[nimble zinc]

No the Monk raises it by 10%. That might be what you are thinking of.

[ancient geyser]

you could just go 75% chaos res

[frigid hill]

i mean im all in on the doggy, it looks good

[ancient geyser]

doggy not costing spirit is crazy

if it costed spirit, sure

but it's literally free

[frigid hill]

and supportable and DR etc etc

guardian radiant sentinel vibes

[nimble zinc]

Doggy with CI and the other node is 40% PDR...

[ancient geyser]

if you can fix being ignited the more 30% crit multi is also very good

[snow sierra]

CI infernalist could be very good defenses

with stacked fire res even better

[livid hamlet]

Wait why CI again ?

[frail jay]

how do you recover ES lol

[long trail]

Can someone help me understand what turtle shell does? "Can block dmaage from all hits while shield is not raised" How is that any different from passive block?

[spring jackal]

Do you guys think it is better for Monk to use cold/lightning combo or just one element?

I wanna play invoker but my brain doesn’t have the capacity to make a two element build.

[frigid hill]

lets u block spells and aoes afaik

[snow sierra]

good point..with the es recovery

[livid hamlet]

It's passive block I think, which might not be a thing

[nimble zinc]

Passive block only does projectiles and stuff now

And melee hits

[frigid hill]

so the only thing u cant block are the big red telegraphed boss attacks

[ancient geyser]

don't get hit and everytime you cast a spell there're chances to proc ES recovery

[frigid hill]

and DoT

[left grail]

you can already block spells

[frail jay]

there are unblockable attacks, it lets you block the unblockable attacks

[livid hamlet]

Oh I thought phys was also fire, never bothered reading it fully

[frigid hill]

r u sure?

[livid hamlet]

Mb

[frail jay]

sounds like a good way to be dead

[ancient geyser]

it's poe2, not poe1

[frail jay]

"just dont get hit"

uh huh sure

good luck with that

[long trail]

Yeah I remeber hearing ziz or someone say this too

[ancient geyser]

you won't be able to facetank shit like in poe1

[livid hamlet]

Don't get hit will be very important here tho

[ancient geyser]

no class has infinite mitigation mechanics

your EHP is just a tool to avoid being 1 shot

[frigid hill]

spell projectiles i guess

[ancient geyser]

not to sit in shaper beam

[frail jay]

I mean you can easily facetank shit, but playing CI and relying on ES recharge only to recover ES is a horrible idea

[livid hamlet]

This Path of Elden Ring

[left grail]

p. sure it was brought up? Active block lets you block spells, and iirc that's supposed to just give you "blockchance: yes", based on which spell and attack block just aren't separate things in PoE2

[livid hamlet]

You have literally 0 idea if what you say is true

[frail jay]

What part?

[ancient geyser]

you're seeing things from poe1 perspective, you will be surprised later on

[livid hamlet]

They wouldn't add dodges and active blocks if you could easily facetank whole game

[frail jay]

We've seen gameplay footage, like hours of it, there's still lots of enemy projectiles and bullshit

relying on es recharge only as CI

[frigid hill]

yea i think ur right, u can block spell projectiles by default, the node lets u block spell aoes etc

[livid hamlet]

I do agree that recharge won't be enough probably tho

Just the facetanking part

[ancient geyser]

there're probably uniques and things in the tree to make ES recovery viable

[frail jay]

I mean you probably shouldn't be eating back to back boss slams but you can just go block warbringer and facetank like 90% of stuff

Anyone who has played aegis aurora in poe1 understands this

[livid hamlet]

We dont know that

[ancient geyser]

but not being hit for 2 seconds or allowing recharge back from casting spells seems fine enough to me

[livid hamlet]

Don't transpose too much poe1 mechanics for poe2

[daring jay]

Do you guys think invoker monk, CI + mom, ES/Evasion with this ascendancy perk? too much or not

[livid hamlet]

It's a very different game by the looks if it

[frail jay]

How many aegis aurora builds have you played

[livid hamlet]

Like 3 ?

[ancient geyser]

invalid question because poe 2 =/= poe 1

[frail jay]

Ok and were you basically invincible or no?

[frigid hill]

im with kirvin on this one

[frail jay]

Yeah but you can get 75% block aegis aurora easilyt in poe2

[left grail]

you can (attempt to) force a few seconds of undisrupatable es recharge in emergencies using weaponswap if you're getting hit a bunch (energy barrier + active block to deliberately get stunned while using active block)

[ancient geyser]

i don't think anyone's questioning how CI builds work in poe1

[frigid hill]

anyway time for bedge, gn folks

[livid hamlet]

No one is questioning how good aegis aurora was in PoE1

[ancient geyser]

also aegis aurora passive is in tree in poe2

[frail jay]

You're questioning how good the same mechanic will be in PoE2...

[ancient geyser]

pretty sure you can run shield CI

[livid hamlet]

We are saying that we have very limited knowledge of how things will look in PoE 2 in that regard

[nimble zinc]

Chayula Monk

Mana Leech into ES Leech
Eternal Youth
CI
Raw ES nodes with no care about recharge
Evasion
Arctic Armor
Freeze as a defensive layer
Quarterstaff Block(?)

So you have a build that takes no Chaos Damage, stacks ES that leeches both Mana and ES, two evasion layers, potions as a backup Regen

[frail jay]

We know that it won't be very hard to be aegis aurora in poe2

[ancient geyser]

but it's not the same game, same reason as to why poe2 has different mechanics for MoM, no life on tree etc

[livid hamlet]

We dont even know how hard it will be to get 75% bloxk

There are unblockable attacks

We dont know how prevalent dots will be

[viscid escarp]

Does anybody know if % chance to apply an ailment like bleed or poison is capped or can you get 100% chance?

[ancient geyser]

just because the game has very similar mechanics and the core is the same, doesn't mean the principles of gameplay will be the same, poe2 WILL force you to dodge mechanics

[livid hamlet]

Just because it was strong in poe1 doesn't need to mean it will be even half as strong in poe2

[unreal girder]

do we know if crossbow shots can fork/chain?

[frail jay]

Warbringer blocks unblockable attacks, and GB + Warbringer is literally 52% block already with 2x effect on further block chance. Also warbringer builds probably attack so just get leech for dots, not to mention overleech is a passive in that area.

[livid hamlet]

They wouldn't add active dodge, improved mobility controll and active block if they intended people to build facetank builds easily

[unreal girder]

tell that to my 30% dmg reduction dodge that I'll use to face tank stuff

[frail jay]

Or there are just specific ways you can build facetank that will obviously be quite strong

[ancient geyser]

it's not facetanking, you'll still be rolling

[unreal girder]

so facerolling?

[ancient geyser]

no just actively mitigating dmg

it's like raising your shield

facetank = stand still and don't care

[unreal girder]

I mean fair enough

I disagree on that terminology

but ok

[nimble zinc]

The key is mitigation over time. You don't want to be immortal. You want to flatten the spikes and manage the damage with potions and recovery

[frail jay]

I mean block warbringer will be able to do that with everything besides boss slams basically

[ancient geyser]

this ^^^^^^

[frail jay]

even boss slams, doing aegis you're armorstack so you might be able to facetank most too

[midnight bolt]

or slow down enemies and not get hit in the first place

[frail jay]

and you're STR so high HP

[nimble zinc]

Darkness may be underrated now that I'm really looking at it. Not that it's fantastic or anything

[sterile latch]

Gain #% of [Damage Type] as Extra [Damage Type] => does it interact with DoTs or just hit plz ?

[frail jay]

There's a lot of really good ele res stuff in that area too, like a notable that just applies 25% of armor to fire damage

[livid hamlet]

So in this str armor block setup CI aurora setup where exactly do you have place for anything else?

[ancient geyser]

i'll believe it when i see it, there might be unblockable spells for all we know

[atomic halo]

with ailments, yes, because the premitigation hit damage determines the damage the ailment will deal.

[frail jay]

Why would you go CI?

[livid hamlet]

The whole discussion started of CI build

[atomic halo]

note it has to be of the correct damage type if you dont have any modifiers that say otherwise.

[nimble zinc]

No damage causes darkness to stop falling off. It's always falling off regardless if if you take damage. So if you look at darkness as a protective layer that's going to protect your ES Recharge along with evasion

[left grail]

defensively? It looks decent. For anything else, and especially with it removign spirit? It looks really meh. Overall, it looks meh, unless you're specifically trying to solve your mitigation of damage spikes using it.

[livid hamlet]

It might be strong , but I don't go assuming anything in this game

[frail jay]

Warbringer has a node that makes it so you can block unblockable stuff, if there's further unblockable stuff it's probably going to be like poe1 unblockable stuff where it's pinnacle boss mechanics you get forced into like memory game or ball phase

[frail jay]

No that was a separate discussion I said CI infernalist seemed bad

[nimble zinc]

Yea idk if it's worth the loss of spirit. I think I'd rather play proactively and grab the breach shards first before I test darkness

[ancient geyser]

and how much EHP do you estimate warbringer can get?

[sterile latch]

really ? i thought the initial hit determined your ailment damage, then the extra was applied

[frail jay]

idk a shitload basically?

[ancient geyser]

more or less

[livid hamlet]

How does aegis aurora look in PoE 2 ?

[frail jay]

same thing but 1% instead of 2%, it's a notable

[nimble zinc]

Do Quarterstaffs block like staves do in PoE1?

[frail jay]

still basically makes you immortal vs packs of mobs

[ancient geyser]

packs of mobs won't be a problem in poe2

bosses will be

[frail jay]

Uh huh sure

[nimble zinc]

Bosses all have actual mechanics you can dodge and interact with

You can kill bosses with skill and practice

[dusty bear]

Does anyone know if Freeze chance works same as the confirmed shock/ignite chance?

[atomic halo]

if you have 100% of damage gained as fire, that fire damage will contribute to ignite magnitude.

[ancient geyser]

well yes that's the point, you won't be able to bullshit your way through most bosses unless you have some ridic gear

[frail jay]

It's definitely going to be the repeated mobs with telegraphed mechanics you practice and not the double rare turboshitters that run you down at mach 50 while freezing you

[sterile latch]

I see, ty!

[livid hamlet]

We are not denying that, the question here how good facetanking builds will be

[ancient geyser]

poe1 mentality

[livid hamlet]

And my opinion here is ; we don't know

[frail jay]

watched poe2 gameplay mentality

[atomic halo]

it seems different. at least for bosses, freeze works with a buildup mechanic, similar to stun.

[ancient geyser]

no i just have seen the flow of gameplay and we have active iframes, fundamentally different

i'm pretty sure you can safely run a 1k hp mapblaster in poe2

[frail jay]

People die so much to just getting surrounded and blasted by a bunch of mobs in poe2 gameplay

have fun with that lol

[ancient geyser]

yes, and also because they're playing bad

[sterile latch]

and btw: in the case of a chaos dot, does the extra damage "tick" as well plz ?

[cinder cedar]

Its only hellhound and altered flesh. Everything else on the tree hurts your defense

[frail jay]

there's the ES node but ES recover seems like a problem

[frail jay]

You're back to the "just don't get hit" argument I see

[livid hamlet]

We also don't know that , ES leech might not be hard to come by

[frail jay]

Well good luck

[cinder cedar]

but wouldn't CI be way better than Beidat nodes. You would get unconditional 20% phys resist.

[frail jay]

Yeah I want to see if there's ES leech for spells on the tree

that would be huge

[ancient geyser]

it's not "don't get hit", it's a combination of positioning, understanding how to play around packs, iframing the big hits etc, you don't need to "not get hit by everything" like it's a dark souls speedrun

[atomic halo]

well, depends if it's an ailment or a generic chaos dot. damage gained as extra chaos will apply to poison, but generic chaos dot, like the stuff witch has, has its flat damage set by the skill that inflicts it. there is no interaction with conversion/gain as in that scenario.

[cinder cedar]

So I see the Beidat nodes as bait nodes bc you have to spec into bc life isn't free like in POE1.

[frail jay]

If you can recover ES well sure maybe, but without good ES recovery you're taking CI and then hitting yourself with pyro flame overflow, I guess unless you play specifically to not overcap pyroflame but like what are you doing with pyroflame there?

I mean if ES leech is a thing getting a ton of ES and spirit seems VERY good

Spirit is OP

[sterile latch]

ok perfect ty. So if I wanted to play Chayula caster there's no specific interest to go chaos spell since 90% are dots ig...

[frail jay]

"it's not don't get hit it's just don't get hit" ok lol

again, have fun trying that

[cinder cedar]

yea thats why I think infernalist is in a bad state until demon form is fixed. Then it will be a good spell caster. The minon nodes are bait bc you lose too much

[frail jay]

I think minion infernalist is probably fine because of the DR from the dog

and minions will probably just be strong

infernal legion meatshield + arsonist looks really good

Also expecting some busted spectres

[olive tide]

thoughts on whether or not this'll work to generate power charges half decently?

[cinder cedar]

yea but you could have a much stronger minion build with Titan, Chronomancer, or gemling. Each of those will provide more defense for minion players.

[frail jay]

I doubt it with how much extra spirit infernalist will get

Oh defense sure

titan and gemling aren't in the best spot though

minion titan actually does seem pretty nice, need to see small minion nodes

[cinder cedar]

I don't think you realize how paper minions will be in PoE2. This is not PoE1. You can't hide behind your minions in boss fights. You need to spec into defense layers or get popped

[frail jay]

I think you completely ignored what I said about minions

Playing a build where you stack minion life to blow them up with arsonists isn't squishy minions

also clerics are a thing

and more spirit lets you have them more easily

[unreal girder]

pmuch any dmg multiplier interacts with dots now except for pen iirc

[velvet blade]

Are freeze and chill two completely separate ailments or do enemies get frozen at a certain level of chill?

[frail jay]

crit?

[long trail]

Also what does "Gain 40% change to block from equipped shield instead of shield's value" mean?

[unreal girder]

yes

crit too

[velvet blade]

If your shield has 13% chance to block on it, you would have 40% chance to block instead

[unreal girder]

ofc if it's "extra lightning damage" it wont help ignite

[frail jay]

I think you're mixing up ailments and DoTs

[cedar river]

I wonder how much the +1 skill gem on gemling will impact spirit cost

[unreal girder]

I am indeed

fair enough

forgot regular dots exist

[frail jay]

I don't think anything changes spirit cost

well besides passives and stuff that specifically talk about spirit cost

[long trail]

That makes sense but the wording doesnt sound right for that effect. Gain 40% chance to block FROM equipped shield

[frail jay]

like there's 20% reduced spirit cost for minions on the tree

[frail jay]

it's the same as duelist in poe1

[long trail]

Oh I guess from as in you are stil getting that 40% from the shield instead of from the node

[unreal girder]

the wording is pretty clear

tbh

"instead of the shield's block, your base block chance is 40%"

[ancient geyser]

thoughts or bait

[cinder cedar]

yea but with str stacking and extra support gems. Gemling is looking like the best minion class

[cedar river]

@frail jay this says othervise: https://maxroll.gg/poe2/resources/spirit-guide

You can reduce the Spirit your minions reserve by increasing the level of your minion skill gems and through passive skill tree notables.

[unreal girder]

KEKW

[ancient geyser]

[velvet blade]

My thought is tier lists are dumb

[cinder cedar]

Witch is now Fire Sorc and Phys/Crit Sorc

[frail jay]

I doubt it, I think spirit is going to be a much bigger gate

[long trail]

Yeah but "your shield's base block chance is 40%" which is a slight but I think relevant difference, at least for things that care about your shield's block chance

[midnight bolt]

b8

[frail jay]

Oh yeah actually minions might have spirit that changes per level, I'm just thinking of meta gems

minion spirit values on poedb are weird numbers so it makes sense that it changes per level

[ancient geyser]

not fair you simp chronomommy

[cedar river]

I wonder if quality on gems impact as well

[cinder cedar]

yea but copies of support gems is going to be massive for minions

[thin basin]

blood mage S good enough

[thick thunder]

so if something has a 5 sescond CD and has 150% more CDR, what is its CD?

[midnight bolt]

blood mommy always S tier

[frail jay]

Ehhhhh we'll see. Really depends on what minions end up being good and what support gems they use. Like the setup I was talking about mostly just cares about 2 minions and their support gems don't really need to overlap much

[thick thunder]

2 seconds?

[midnight bolt]

yes

[summer mantle]

based on what

[cedar river]

But yeh its really to early to tell which ascendancy will be best for minions. One of the reasons I'm not going for it as a starter

[sterile latch]

I never saw an accurate tier list preseason... so prelaunch KEKW (and im past mid 30s)

[cedar river]

Perhaps some of the nodes around Gemling is really good for minions, and its not a big loss starting there, or perhaps the Infernalist doggie is better than we assume

[static plinth]

I wonder if Warbringer will.be a legit minion ascendancy

[frail jay]

there is a 25% minion damage notable near gemling apparently

[static plinth]

Use the Totem minions you summon and then encase in Jade and pray

[frail jay]

Warbringer should have a minion build I mean it has 2 ascendancy notables dedicated to minions basically

[ancient geyser]

blood mage is solid S tier for everyone i think, it's so strong and very allrounder

[native widget]

So is stormweaver👍

[ancient geyser]

actually

[olive tide]

yeah exactly

[ancient geyser]

i wouldn't put stormweaver S tier unless archmage archetypes

stormweaver isn't S tier because it's not as flexible

[summer mantle]

stormweaver will depend a lot on how good mana is

[ancient geyser]

blood mage has so much flexibility

with what you wanna do

[olive tide]

thundercubes

[native widget]

[cinder cedar]

Devs interviews. Previous footage. We see bosses 1 shotting the entire minion army. Also bosses had massive AoEs. I think mapping will be fine but its looking rough for bosses.

[ancient geyser]

stormweaver is SSS+ tier for archmage though

[native widget]

Is there a innate cd for trigger skills tho?

[frail jay]

I feel like witchhunter looks kinda mid and everything else looks like it will have some very strong setups

[native widget]

Or can you just trigger it rapidly if energy requirements are met

[summer mantle]

taking any ggg footage or campaign footage as representative of anything is a bit silly

[ancient geyser]

same, witchhunter feels like noob bait leaguestarter

[maiden karma]

Would this work on poison?

[frail jay]

yes

[static plinth]

Witchhunter looks like a safe pick, if not a great one

[native widget]

Meh

[native widget]

Sure

[cinder cedar]

well in interviews, devs said they don't want minions to tank bosses. Its why we get 4 sec revives so we can expect minions to drop... but thats rough in a boss scenario.

[maiden karma]

But if poison isn't threshold based like elemental ailments then this doesn't really make sense

[frail jay]

I mean it might not be threshold based

bleed isnt

[summer mantle]

why is that rough, it's still probably less downtime than most other builds

[summer mantle]

its not bait at all because culling/decimating/explosions arent something you have to think about or build around

they just do shit

only potential bait is the ward but that's just purely how well it's tuned

[frail jay]

Supported Skills have 60% chance to Poison on Hit

[cinder cedar]

Ok, I hope late game bosses to wait and sit and treat us very nicely during those 4 sec downtimes. Which might happen every few AoE attacks.

[frail jay]

Yeah I don't think the chance is threshold based for poison, it's like bleed

[sterile latch]

culling is so easy to get though, so 4pts for 17.5% damage... oof

[frail jay]

Just play righteous fire minions

[dusty bear]

but is there inherent freeze when doing cold damage or do you have to get chance to freeze or some way to enable freeze?

[frail jay]

they're tanky

[frail jay]

it's inherent to cold I believe

[dusty bear]

okay that's lit, thanks

[frail jay]

The real mystery is what comet's "hits are freezing" means

[summer mantle]

? it's not like you need to stand still and cast during it, you need to dodge like every other character

[dusty bear]

yup that's what mad eme wonder

that and frost bomb having 5% chance for hits to be freezing

[summer mantle]

did you expect summoners to bypass boss mechanics?

[atomic halo]

from what i've seen, i dont think you need to get chance to freeze to enable it.

[summer mantle]

complaining about a free revive which you have to do nothing to trigger is insanity

[dusty bear]

okay, hopefully there'll be some way to scale freeze buildup high enough to be worth doing freeze+ignite stuff

[frail jay]

oh for sure

[long trail]

Do we know how many passive skills points you’d have at level 100 in poe2? Are we getting passives from campaign quests? Or is the weapon swap passives essentially that?

[cinder cedar]

What if I was dodging earlier? Should we be face-tanking until then?

[unreal girder]

2 sec? right,

?

[summer mantle]

bro regardless of your spec everyone should have to play the boss mechanics

i do not understand the problem

[silent prawn]

122 at least 20 are Weapon set points

[unreal girder]

automatic culling on all your skills isnt the same as one culling strike support

it's gonna be very effective for clear

especially because of the synergy with the explody mod

dont get me wrong it's still not "insane amazing"

but it's decent

[lofty grotto]

just noticed this

mother of god

[unreal girder]

keep in mind it doesnt work on the attribute nodes

[sterile latch]

Yeah for mapping since its like 20% on white mobs true

[summer mantle]

do you know that for a fact?

[silent prawn]

do we know that?

[neon kindle]

it's not 17.5% more damage

[unreal girder]

yes

[lofty grotto]

not that broken then

[unreal girder]

decimating strike is 17.5 % more dmg

[silent prawn]

would you have the source?

[neon kindle]

removing (avg) 17.5% life is equivalent to 21.2% more damage

[sterile latch]

Imagine you're against your first pinacle and you roll 5%.. it's not for me

[unreal girder]

ah right

[unreal girder]

just go agane

[unreal girder]

I dont remember which interview jonathan said it sorry 😦

I just have a vivid memory of it being said

we'll see on friday anyway

[summer mantle]

the node wasnt even revealed till yesterday

how could it be in an interview

[unreal girder]

that doesnt mean that small passives didnt exist before then...

[neon kindle]

culling (5% against bosses) is 5.26% more dmg, BUT they stack nonlinearly, so if you have both culling and decimating it's 29% more damage

[unreal girder]

iirc he talked about it in the context of the timeless jewels

[unreal girder]

dont forget culling effect

or threshhold

[neon kindle]

just base numbers, but yeah

[unreal girder]

and you can put all your culling threshhold nodes on one weapon set

so it doesnt even waste dmg the rest of the time

5head

[long trail]

Wicked

[unreal girder]

I'M really not sold on concentration

feels like it'll be only good vs certain bosses at best

[cedar river]

Have they removed the disarm/silence from it?

[thorny path]

It never did that

[cedar river]

I must have misread then

[unreal girder]

this is all it does

[bitter ore]

do crits still have 100% ignite chance?

[unreal girder]

like there will be a 100% a boss that this mechanic just shits on

[static torrent]

No

[cedar river]

weird how I've misread that badly

[unreal girder]

all ailment application is based on ailment threshold now

crits just help it cos its bigger hit

but no inherent 100% chance

[bitter ore]

ok, interesting

thx

[unreal girder]

itll be interesting, cos it feels like we wont have "full ailment" builds now

itll just be an additional scaling factor

[bitter ore]

but ignite isn't like stun where it builds up, right? i have to overcome the threshold with 1 hit I'm guessing?

[unreal girder]

yes

[cedar river]

Hmm, as long as you can keep their concentration down at 0% it will probably help a lot vs bosses

[unreal girder]

or honestly I'm not 100% sure

[unreal girder]

well the issue is, most big bosses have invuln phases

[bitter ore]

poe1 brain is having trouble adjusting lol

[cedar river]

Yes thats the issue, that and mechanics where you have to enter 100% dodge mode

[unreal girder]

I mean that's still solvable with dots, or totems or something

but yes

it just feels very unreliable

[maiden karma]

Bleed and poison aren't

[unreal girder]

and even when it's up it doesnt feel that amazing

[unreal girder]

they arent?

are they still pure chance?

[thorny path]

Ignite is a percent chance, still has an ailment threshold. Every 100% of ailment threshold in damage you do, is 25% chance to ignite. These are numbers from a couple weeks ago

[cedar river]

Respec ascendency points will probably need to be very cheap for it to enter my build

[thorny path]

Everything still has something to do with ailment threshold at the end of the day

either for %chance or buildup

[frail jay]

bleed/poison don't seem to care about threshold or buildup, looks the same as poe1

also ignite with incendiary shot

[near acorn]

Do we have confirmation on whether flat chance to shock / ignite exists in the game?

[frail jay]

shock does iirc

[near acorn]

Its on some gems, but some gems are outdated

[frail jay]

ignite only on incendiary shot