We’re excited to further introduce the

[full cobalt]

Agree with this

[tame oriole]

this is perfect

[warped egret]

i got you

[mild mantle]

NEW POLL

[lofty oak]

D > C > A > B

[mild mantle]

A > D > C > B
(also TKL would have lightbar as well somehow, but maybe doesn't fit)
(A attachment can also be some Knob tho (connect to kb wirelessly + magnetic + charging))

[fickle fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/austin-powers-dr-evil-how-gif-19601238

[heavy oak]

I have to admit, everything is much more complicated if one looks at it more closely. I found this list of compatibility: https://digiva.net/best-pcb-for-a-75-keyboard/ , but I am not sure how accurate this is. It seems possible to use e.g. the XD84 case with a KBD75 PCB: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/ae3abg/comment/edmwq57/ , https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/93fhnd/just_finished_my_first_build_kbd75xd84/ , but the XD84 case is “top mounted” (I think that is the word) and includes a particular plate with little bulges for the screws.
I also see that the Tofu 84 mount points are suboptimal and incompatible with the proposed “W” layout because there are mount points within the top-most row and not only between the rows. 😞

[honest wolf]

C actually looks really clean. But moving everything over might be more challenging than just the arrow keys

[mild mantle]

do the X > X > X > X vote, also everyone else

[honest wolf]

C=B>A
D isn’t really worth discussing because it’s an entirely different product

B and C look good enough in my eyes that my preference would change based on the day of the week

[mild mantle]

:Aware: (over an hour now)

[quiet robin]

😂😂😂 I know

[tepid mural]

https://tenor.com/view/ryan-higa-nigahiga-essay-incoming-gif-25057663

[stuck nova]

[full cobalt]

D is perfect even without the light bar.

[full cobalt]

This!

[warped egret]

🙏 hopefully ill be able to finish it up real soon

[mild mantle]

with the knob sticking out from the groove on the side, metal plate holding it goes around edge and Wooting logo on top (magnet-attached).
pretty perfect keyboard for me I guess (but with ISO), with Ctrl and Alt left side and OS key on the right side somewhere (so you also don't misclick it) -

• more room for mouse
• keyboard more centered (G | H)
• arrow keys and Del etc keys are closer to you than on the right
  (actually better to have Ctrl key where OS key is, test it, position hands homerow, it's hard to reach Ctrl) (also if you play games using ESDF)

[mild mantle]

this attachment there also because of this conveniently placed, mysterious compartment
(for magnet, but no indication it's connected to kb tho, for wirelessly charging the addon, or listening to it somehow)
(but you see the bottom part of it is accessible, so maybe will be accessed with wires)
(the addon can't be on top of kb in same place because easy to accidentally touch it when using arrow keys)

[spark lark]

why the lefthand layout

[mild mantle]

well I explained in those points. more like a dream scenario if this was standard from the start.

[spark lark]

i wont lie i may be blind but i cant see any specific points that apply to a pure left handed layout

then again i need glasses so i may just be blind

[frail tinsel]

more comfortable to use with a mouse I guess?

[mild mantle]

~~~~~~~~~~
⬇️ #1193941977083953193 message ⬇️ (post with image moved down)
~~~~~~~~~~

[frail tinsel]

im gonna be honest with you

that does not look any better

[fickle fractal]

lowered arrow keys

[frail tinsel]

also lowered arrow keys probably isnt possible with the case being that thin there

[mild mantle]

I'm not suggesting this for 80HE ofc lol, just a "dream scenario" overall (mostly for right-handed mouse use, but works with left-handed use too)
(can also easily use Del and Up arrow as additional bindings in games)
(you could do both Alts 1.25 ofc too, so spacebar would be 4.25, I guess a bit better overall ⬇️)

[mild mantle]

➡️ better and updated "Dream Scenario ISOx".
It's especially if you use ESDF for gaming, easier reaching Ctrl (and also Alt with thumb), also in general using kb (home row) easier reaching Ctrl.

[tardy eagle]

I’ll give you this - you are dedicated…

[lofty oak]

should rename into exploded ←↑↓→...

[mild mantle]

well this is for a special edition, especially important to have exploded on the left side, so you don't accidentally click mostly Right arrow (but also Up) (but you won't have much issue if always using "home row" and ESDF in games).
still prefer fully 🅰️ttached to 🅱️ halfway detached and that big space near Ctrl.
current 80HE rating is A > this ISOx > D > C > B

[lavish vigil]

I think this is too niche. but nice idea. wooting also started that way.

[mild mantle]

not very niche, if you only use pretty much one keyboard and want it to be more perfect in many ways (or good at shifting mechanical memory with different kbs).
also a nod to lefthanders, as an alternative for them.
this is only ISOx version, ANSIx version is going to obviously have that normal Shift row.
(also only coders use "< >" key often, almost no one else as often, but still easy to get used to) (< > currently sits in an awkward spot for a couple reasons)
also "< >" look like horns a bit, like sinners/demons, they're locked out of 80HEaven (name of this kb), like the key is. maybe make them look more like horns too.

[craggy blaze]

I looked away for a few days. What the heck is this

[mild mantle]

it's what it says "what if we could design standard kb layout anew", how to make most things as perfect as possible.
read more about it here https://discord.com/channels/167181566978555904/1194715804126683337

[quiet robin]

@acoustic aurora I'll make it short: what do you think about this option? Maybe, based on what you explained, it is possible to shift the 6 top right keys instead of the 4 arrow keys...? I don't know if you can still shorten the case and LED. Many positive reactions for it and it changes the look of the keyboard, instead shifting the arrow keys doesn't change almost at all how it looks... So is it worth it?
Fix by @lofty oak

[mild mantle]

it's not bad, but I prefer TKL look to this. but also those top-right keys there on this specific example aren't even moved left enough, with spacing as between other keys, need to still move like 1-2mm (and then it really looks even more "cramped"). so I like original better than this, but this is still better than B.
lightbar is also looking worse with this, like more out of place. also if magnetic attachment on the side, might interfere more with switches, since side moved closer to them.

[lofty oak]

@acoustic aurora I'm just watching your new video. I have a question and concern about the zinc alloy. Have you subjected the metallic composition to a dermatological test? We will be putting our hands there for hours in certain heat, including sweat, so we don't want to end up with allergic reactions. Thank you!

[lofty oak]

Second thing as chore: You wanted to be involved in the switch development at Gateron at an early stage. Then you can really put yourselves in our shoes and realize that we, as loyal customers, also wanted to be involved earlier.

[slow glacier]

dermatologically speaking zinc is actually used in a lot of skincare products

But I think you'd touch the coating rather than the actual zinc alloy
Depends on the execution I guess

[lofty oak]

@slow glacier You're right about zinc. I wanted to focus on the metals in the alloy. Europe, for example, is stricter in that no nickel may be processed. There could be hidden risks in the alloy if you don't check this in advance.

[lofty oak]

A list of the metals / chemical substances used would be great

[weak scroll]

this is wrong though, the h87 is a very common style it's the gh60 of the tkl world

https://hineybush.com/products/h87a-1-8?variant=31727557083238 a lot of custom tkl's will use this

[cerulean moat]

This is a PCB and not a case.

While the TKL layout itself is standardized the cases for them typically aren't. Everyone has it's own and I'm not aware for a common case which is used by multiple vendors.

I'm also not aware that companies offer their case dimensions so third parties can create their own.
Wooting offers theirs: https://github.com/WootingKb/wooting-design

So basically if Wooting does this later on it would be open.

[vital crystal]

We've looked into H87 before, it appears to be the best standard in the TKL space. But have you seen the compatibility list of the link you sent?

I CANNOT GUARANTEE THAT THIS PCB WILL FIT YOUR CASE, even if it is listed as "probable" by the spreadsheet linked above.

There are like 4 different variants of H87 and various compatibility issues. (Even the H87a which seemingly is the most prolific is with mini USB). You cannot compare this to GH60

[weak scroll]

what about the usb c one?

I know a few cases off the top of my head that I believe use it
like the freebird tkl for example

[lavish vigil]

#🌟│wooting80he check the post I pinned. the twitter image is from jeroen.

[weak scroll]

but that's still better than 0 compatability

[ionic crypt]

I really dislike the statement “still better than 0 compatibility” because comparing something that is still wildly inconvenient and something almost no non enthusiasts would be doing (designing and printing custom plates) vs no compatibility is like when news headlines say 200% increase in pigeon related deaths

Then you read the stats and it went from 1 person per year to 2 people the past year

Even using the freebird tkl example, that’s a full kit tkl since I don’t believe you can find just the tkl case - people would have to spend maybe $200-225 usd just for the case (pre shipping which isn’t that cheap for heavy tkl kits)

That’s before figuring out a custom plate design and getting it printed

That’s a far cry from what people expect when they think compatibility of the 60he, which was “buy sub $100 case and slot it my wooting”

[weak scroll]

I agree, it sucks that tkls are more expensive than 60's. The cheapest one I could find was the scarlet tkl(case only) for about 170usd before shipping.

In this hypothetical wooting tkl, wouldn't you just reuse the plate it came with and just screw it into the new case?
I don't understand your point about custom plates, sorry.
The Twitter post said you would need a custom plate, why is that?

I also completely agree that most cases are unavailable :( There still are 2-3 and new one's come about eventually.
It might however attract someone who already owns a compatible tkl to buy a wooting. Tbh, I was hoping a wooting tkl would bring back some much deserved attention to the top/gummy mount tkl.

[honest wolf]

Idk if anyone else has already answered you. But the need for a custom plate on a case-by-case basis outside of the 60% form factor is that there is no standard for mounting outside of 60% (and some 65%). So every TKL has screw holes in different places or support tabs in different places. While the keys are often the same it’s the physical connection between plate and case that changes.

Also outside of 60%, custom cases are wayyyyy more specialized. Custom TKLs come up in group buys a handful of times per year and you usually aren’t going to find a case outside of a full kit group buy, because of the incompatibility.

[weak scroll]

Oh I see

[honest wolf]

Same thing applies to 75% and full size. 75% comes up more commonly than TKL or full size customs from what I’ve seen. But even then it’s maybe one group buy per quarter, and then you’re looking at group buy wait times. Which can be 6 months to 2+ years.

[weak scroll]

I have another question, why is this called an 80 when I can only see 75?
I actually think the layout is fine, but I hate that it means we can't have a proper tkl due to the name being taken.

[acoustic aurora]

This change is more drastic than shifting arrows. It means we also need to shrink the outline of the keyboard, which is intense (it changes the dimensions, requiring changes over the entire exterior) unless you want to keep an uneven thick border on the right.

Also the reason we wanted to retain a gap there was for better usability. We didn't do it for the arrows because it was distinct enough already from the other keys. Its original position or the shift to right, that was a mix of aesthetics with total picture of the final board. Had to make a sacrifice somewhere, since in the end, you can't place the arrows keys anywhere comfortable without creating somewhat of a mess.

[acoustic aurora]

To do top mount, you need a switch plate that allows it. To do gummy mount, you need a switch plate and case that allows it. To do gasket mount, you need a switch plate and case that allows it. Each mounting method needs its own switch plate because the mount depends on the switch plate. Unlike the 60, it was mounted from the PCB and independent from the switch plate.

Another factor is that our hall effect keyboads require you to mount the PCB to the switch plate to ensure a good connection between sensor and switch. All those TKL boards, do not mount to PCB, let alone, have the some locations to mount to PCB. This means, whatever plate you get with the TKL board is also incompatible with our PCB.

Therefore Friction fit / gummy mount would be the most compatible method imaginable, as it would allow you to retain the same switch plate, if we would take this in consideration.

[weak scroll]

could you tell me more about the wooting 80he 75he mounting?
I remember watching mod videos on this where they wouldn't add any o-rings or anything to make it a softer mount because of the hall-effect system, but now you are implementing gasket mounting. How did you achieve this?

[gleaming oriole]

I wish this was going to be a TKL layout. At first glance removing one row of keys gives you almost nothing but it removes Pos1/End and the space for a proper arrow key placement.

Hopefully i am mistaken or you release a real TKL in the future.
The TwoHE's i have are great, but I just dont need the numeric keypad.

[empty radish]

Can someone explain why the original wooting one tkl model can’t be used for a new model? There’s all this talk about compatibility and stuff but why should I care? I honestly don’t understand :/ I have a Wooting One and I use all the buttons there. (Well except scroll lock)

[lavish vigil]

that was not the idea 2 years ago when they started this project. the mould is already made. changing to the tkl layout would add months of delay.

[empty radish]

Yeah I can understand but for me personally I would skip this one. This makes about as much sense to me as the 60HE, which I also passed on. Deleting the numpad gives me plenty of mouse space. If I had to replace the ‘One’, I would reluctantly choose the ‘Two’ over this. I would buy the One again in a heartbeat.

I don’t understand the hate for the One model in the chat. For me it’s the OG and deserves a refresh.

[left snow]

Few reasons:

1. The floating keycap design feels a little outdated and overdone at this point
2. The mounting method makes it hard to created a softer feel with better sound vs a gasket design
3. The PCB and switch plate are both screwed into the bottom case, not PCB and plate together like 60HE. PCB and plate together is much better for stable sensor design
4. The switch plate with little bend in front was hard to manufacture at scale. Stamping is hard to get accurate. Very easy to create little visible gaps
5. USB cable gutter hard to make compatible with thicker connectors like used for coiled cables

[empty radish]

Thank you 🙂

[honest wolf]

iirc from the reveal and other gasket mount systems. The plate, pcb, and switches are mounted statically to eachother. Then that whole assembly sits sandwiched between rubber gaskets in the case.
So when you’re typing it’s a softer experience because you are pushing the switches, plate, and pcb down. But it doesn’t interfere with Hall effect because the switches and pcb aren’t changing their position relative to eachother.

It also isolates the vibrations of typing from the case, as you have the rigid plate assembly transferring vibrations into the soft rubber, which then transfers nearly no vibrations to the case. Basically it’s extremely inefficient energy transfer from plate to case (which is good for acoustics).
You still have the case that can act as a chamber for sound from the plate assembly to reverberate in, similar to the strings and hole of a guitar, but that can be mitigated with case foam and/or internal case design. So there is some room for creating distinctive sound profiles even on gasket mounts.

[craggy blaze]

So will this keyboard loud?

Are there options to make it silent?

[spark lark]

loud is a very subjective measurement so i cant really answer this

and anything can be made silent

we of course dont void warranties just for disassembling our keyboards (not like that is a thing anyway) but only void warranties on parts you damaged yourself

[craggy blaze]

I would define "silent" as relative to a linear switch like reds or silvers when not bottoming out. That's probably a reasonable middle ground on mechanical keyboards

I assume most people prefer a click though so I don't have any expectations here

[spark lark]

we only have linear switches so there is no click

[craggy blaze]

Got it, thanks! Do o-rings fit on these?

[spark lark]

under the caps? sure

idk why they wouldnt fit

[craggy blaze]

Just double checking, I've very much not experienced in the scene overall. Thanks again!

[dark hill]

when it comes to keyboards, clickies are liked by a lot less people than linear or tactile

on the switchmodders discord

[craggy blaze]

Huh, I wouldn't have expected that

[lofty oak]

Silent linear Switch ftw 🙌

[frail tinsel]

I would've

linears are loud enough already

[mild mantle]

the right silent tactile is just best though, just not for gaming with HE.
so you should ideally have just 60HE for gaming and some other for longer typing sessions in some way, also when you need easier/faster access to buttons. just switch between these two kbs.
80HE kind of bridges that gap a good amount tho, still will be a compromise and not fully dedicated board in sizable amount of cases.

[fervent oyster]

a lot of crappy keyboards use clickys to mask the poor/inconsistent feel with other sensory engagement. that's why they're still so common

[mild mantle]

Clicky is just kind a bait, mostly used by people who just haven't had anything else, so nothing to compare it too. or just no preference/bad taste in kbs.
compact 75% with Clicky is mega-bait.

[honest wolf]

Keep in mind that’s a keyboard enthusiast community. A lot of people love cherry blues for casual gaming. I personally find it annoying but open mic comms suggest most people do not.

[honest wolf]

O-rings fit, but can mess with rapid trigger as you can get a few fractions of mm of rebound from orings. So if you use super sensitive rapid trigger the orings can be a headache

[mild mantle]

moved bottom row 0.25 to the right and exploded arrows, doesn't look half bad
(but you can make Spacebar like 6.50u too instead, just that not standard and it's already too long, or like the OS Wooting logo key 1.50)

[frail tinsel]

wdym doesnt look half bad?? that looks so much worse.

also exploded arrows wont work without making the bottom bezel bigger

[mild mantle]

because you want to keep all those keys 1.25 tho ideally, and described how to do it instead and why it's not super good either already.
no big gap next to right Ctrl now like with 🅱️, symmetrical gap overall
this 75% would be better tho https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1200407828972716052/1200547939395850310/Wooting_75HE_exploded_V2.png?ex=65c69465&is=65b41f65&hm=82a613b829f9dfc54f4de711392ee253ab2f1903ed8d6f314e184996cdd5c4b5& (updated)

[frail tinsel]

why are you still going at this

they arent going to change the design lol

[mild mantle]

just for fun to see how it could have been

attached arrows still good tho, but I kind of today came to conclusion that they really didn't have anything in mind to make arrows look better, they didn't even do smaller side bezels, which would also make it look better.
so now they are stuck between a rock and a hard place

[bright oxide]

That 75% looks awful I suspect you're just trying to trigger our ocd

[heavy oak]

It is basically the Keychron Q1 layout with a small spacebar and a full set of 1.25u modifiers.
I think there is something to a smaller spacebar. It would just be very difficult to get a 4.25u space bar keycap and a corresponding stabilizer.

[mild mantle]

looks good to me. it's more about finding solutions to problems though, how to make all (important) keys 1.25, because you kind of have to do it, unless you really go for something else, while still everything fitting together like arrows with correct gaps.
also yeah, smaller spacebar because it's enough, so you have 2 extra keys on the sides compared to similar kbs. I'm trying to make something that does many good things at once. like if you have 3 1.0u to the right of spacebar like many do, it's just to cramped, looks and use.

since also this spacebar not super centered with G | H, you can extend it to 4.50 to the left and then maybe OS key 1.0u, might still look pretty good, and OS key because it's like least useful key, and then harder to misclick (and because Ctrl, Fn, Alt keys are untouched and 1.25 on both sides).

[heavy oak]

Don’t tell that to Mac users😎 . They use “Cmd” (located at the Alt and AltGr position) and “Alt” (located at the OS and Menu position) all the time.

A solution to the 4.25u space bar problem would be a split spacebar with one 2u and one 2.25u key. Those are standard sizes.

[mild mantle]

with 4.5 spacebar, should make both 2.25 then

so the main reason for this I guess is so you don't need stabilizers.

[heavy oak]

All keys with 2u+ have stabilizers. But 2u and 2.25u are standard sizes.

[mild mantle]

well maybe just do 2 switches for each 2.25, not very customizable after, but still fine.
a bit harder to press, but really fine. can swap them with L45 switches

[heavy oak]

I don’t understand. You would need one switch and one stabilizer for each key, wouldn’t you?

[mild mantle]

nah, just 2 switches for each, since this is linear too, doesn't matter much. have five L45 switches included, so you can use them instead, if it's too heavy to click.

but nah, don't really like splitting spacebar in general, and especially not when it's like 4.50u, because like often you will use it and hit in the middle, and get that unwanted feedback, it should be solid in middle, use without thought (also sometimes accidental double space when clicking in middle).

[rotund osprey]

just me or do people actually use the alt and Crtl on the right? id shift the FN to the left and have the spacebar off set only moving it to the right?? I've notice i tend to hit the space bar more to the right so this would put it at its centre

never mind I'm caught up, I missed the chance to put my input aha, ignore my input aha.

[left snow]

Modifiers keycaps all have the size, so you could do this swap yourself easily

[rotund osprey]

dunno what those are but will look into it cheers for the info

[wintry nebula]

the classic wooting "were sorry for all the controversy let's put a UNDER CONSTRUCTION on the right hand of the board and then litterally make 0 changes after the feedback is over so we're basically just riding out the storm"

fucking stupid I hope no one buys this shit

[frail tinsel]

dude what is your problem

they changed the arrow keys after heavy community feedback

they're potentially making a white case after community request

I have no idea what you're talking about, and theres no need to be so hostile

[frail tinsel]

also im not sure what you mean by "classic wooting," I havent seen 1 instance where wooting didnt make things right.

[slow glacier]

They literally presented the community with options and the community made a decision

[slow glacier]

probably someone malding because their overpaid for their razer or steelseries board only for it to perform worse

[frail tinsel]

take the concrete gray alumaze for example, it had tape mark issues. they fixed it as quickly as possible and even allowed people to swap out their case with issues to a newer batch without issues.

[frail tinsel]

probably yeah

[wintry nebula]

wooting60 sounds bad no matter what you buy from them

[wintry nebula]

I actually have over 20 keyboards none of them razer or Steelseries thank you

[wintry nebula]

thanks bro

[frail tinsel]

what?

what does an entirely different product have to with the 80he

[wintry nebula]

you're moving goalposts my man

[wintry nebula]

I'm litterally telling you about multiple instances with multiple products under the 60 product line that have failed to do what they were intended to do.

granted, most people don't care too much so technically they're in the clear but just because wooting fails and no one cares doesn't mean they didn't fail

[slow glacier]

such a flex

But good thing you're avoiding those

[wintry nebula]

the PC plate, the alu case, all of those sound modifying parts didn't do anything to the wooting

and by "anything" I mean "not enough"

[slow glacier]

because not everything's built around the sound experience

[frail tinsel]

brother what goofy juice are you brewing up? they make pretty audible differences.

[wintry nebula]

ok but these products WERE built around the sound experience. Exclusively.

See, you're moving goalposts.

[wintry nebula]

and by "anything" I mean "not enough"

[slow glacier]

were they?

[frail tinsel]

not enough is subjective, anything is objective

[wintry nebula]

bro is really trying to gaslight me LMAOOO

[slow glacier]

The alumaze wasn't created for a sound experience

[wintry nebula]

yeah it got worse

[slow glacier]

It was an added benefit but ultimately was just a wooting developed 60% case option

[ionic crypt]

can't please everyone, I don't think you're going to convince him otherwise

[wintry nebula]

You're on crack or something worse I'm don't with this convo y'all are shills and you create strawman arguments and you don't even know what the fuck you're talking about

Bye!

[slow glacier]

bye don't let the door hit u on the way out

[ionic crypt]

I think that guy just had a bad day and came in here to vent or something lol

[frail tinsel]

again, subjective. however most people do agree that the alumaze makes the sound worse, anyone from the keyboard modding community will know that aluminum cases sound "worse" (more pingy), but theres ways to combat that.

[ionic crypt]

he's not in here anymore, no point replying

[frail tinsel]

they're still in the server, im assuming they're probably just not reading the messages

[wintry nebula]

Id argue hollowness / ping are objectively bad and people can subjectively like them.

That's why some boards cost $500 cos you don't need to put foam in it.

Additionally, the objectivity of hollowness and ping are imo determined by the majority and the majority, as you have so wisely figured out, don't like the change and think that if you're not making mods to the case it's a downgrade for more money.

[ionic crypt]

He's a keyboard guy. I doubt you're going to be able to convince him anything wooting related is worth because he's comparing it to customs for sound

I'm more confused why he came here to rant so late into this process out of nowhere lol

[wintry nebula]

Cos I saw that there hasn't been any meaningful change in the product

[frail tinsel]

it all depends on the mods you do. I have my 60he module in a redux with 0 ping, but its because of the mods I did. also Vio was right, the alumaze was never meant for sound, just a more premium feel. I'd say we've gotten enough off topic however, im sure there would be people gladly willing to talk to you about the acoustics of the alumaze case in #🔧│keyboard_modding.

[ionic crypt]

yeah there's only so much you can really do without changing HE switches entirely, mounting etc - all of which take time which is why you're seeing these sorts of things happen in the 80HE instead of 60HE

HE boards have already been massively held back because the switches don't sound good to begin with - so you can only do so much to try 'fix' it

[wintry nebula]

boog75

[ionic crypt]

yeah and wooting 80he also has gasket and new switches coming, so it should see similar improvements to the boog75 sound

so I'm not really sure what your point there is

[wintry nebula]

My point is wooting asks for community feedback and the makes barely any change to the layout when there are thousands of messages in this channel that are saying "The layout sucks"

[ionic crypt]

I'm going to assume you didn't keep up to date with the reasons why they can't do a complete redesign at this stage?

[wintry nebula]

Hence wooting did the feedback thing as a publicity stunt

[wintry nebula]

No I don't pay attention to gaming keyboards usually, I'm not good enough for the difference of hysteresis to matter

[ionic crypt]

tl;dr - they changed what they could and can't scrap the entire thing at this late stage. Changing entirely to 75/tkl is too late in the process, hence why just the arrows was what they could do for this one

molds were already made and the arrow key shift was what they could do without basically redoing the molds entirely

[wintry nebula]

yeah that makes sense but why ask for feedback when the molds are done

[frail tinsel]

I dont think you realize that making prototypes of a version they knew they werent going use would cost a ton of money. I dont think this was a publicity stunt.

[wintry nebula]

like that's dumb. like what's the point?

[ionic crypt]

they asked if they should move the arrow or not, which it seems people really wanted it done because vote was to do it

[wintry nebula]

I actually do realize that and I think wooting is dumb now for making a mold and then going and asking for feedback

[wintry nebula]

it was the right call it's not a TKL

[ionic crypt]

they've acknowledged they made a mistake not getting feedback earlier and they were working on this design from 2 years ago - it was a miss but I'm not sure what more you want them to do

[wintry nebula]

Wooting may have only asked for feedback because they were getting too much flack, but again, that's a choice they didn't have to make

[frail tinsel]

because they wanted to announce the product when they wanted to announce the product? you cant be expecting them to just let the entire community in on every little change they make?

[wintry nebula]

Do better in the future

[ionic crypt]

Isn't that what they're doing?

[frail tinsel]

thats literally what they are doing

[ionic crypt]

they're literally doing weekly updates, letting people vote on features/design ahead of time now

[wintry nebula]

I'm allowed to outraged that they essentially clickbaited me into something that is not only litterally impossible with the timeline but also something that would likely cost hundreds of thousands of dollars

[ionic crypt]

so basically you're angry despite them trying to do better and you just want to vent

[wintry nebula]

They shouldn't of asked for feedback if they knew they couldn't make the changes people really wanted

[frail tinsel]

brother what??

[wintry nebula]

Just take the L and move on. You think I keep up to date with this project?

[ionic crypt]

but you do not speak for everyone though. The changes may not be enough for you but others appreciate the changes and updates

[frail tinsel]

you should be happy they made a change at all, thats more than most companies... they cant just make it a tkl because a few people asked for tkl, thats not feasible.

[ionic crypt]

You're welcome to be angry but it's a bit weird to be angry because they're trying to do better in a situation where this is the best they can do

[wintry nebula]

Yeah I can see where you're coming from with "this is just a vent post" but this doesn't look good for wooting anyway you slice it

[wintry nebula]

I think the best they could do is just ignore it and do better next time when realistically they could at best half ass it this time

[ionic crypt]

I disagree, but again I'm not you so what you think is best may not be what is best for everyone else

[wintry nebula]

Right, and this is where I can see how this is coming off as a vent post

[frail tinsel]

what is your point? why are you complaining they didnt do go enough but you want them do this product lazy and do better in the future? they're actively righting a wrong they made. I really dont understand where you are coming from.

[wintry nebula]

You've been antagonizing me this entire time unlike the other dude

I'm not commenting further

[frail tinsel]

to be completely fair you started off with vulgar language. in fact you even wished that no one bought the product. not very nice is it? why do you deserve respect if you cant give simple respect to others?

[wintry nebula]

LMAO. Acting as if the product deserves respect because it is a person.

[slow glacier]

eh just quit it at this point

[wintry nebula]

Okay you're blocked, get out of here 👋

[slow glacier]

laffey has a few valid points but the situation also has some context

[wintry nebula]

Im officially done with this convo. Wooting took a big fat L with this one

[frail tinsel]

im not saying the product deserves respect like its a person, but you could give some respect to the company behind it my guy.

[wintry nebula]

Waiting on their next product hopefully they do something interesting like idk gummy o ring mount

[frail tinsel]

the 80he is literally gasket mounted...

[wintry nebula]

with soldered pre-lubed lekkers if that's possible? idk.

Gummy oring is pretty hard to mess up.

Especially with foam.

[spark lark]

we cant solder lekker switches as they have nothing to solder

[wintry nebula]

Oh damn TIL

maybe not oring then unless you make the plate really thick

Cannonkeys' bakeneko plate is too thin IME forced me to buy entirely new switches for the build

[frail tinsel]

1. they cant be soldered 2. that would go against them wanting it to be easy to swap switches. 3. lekkers are already prelubed.

[wintry nebula]

The switches just pop right out LMAO

[slow glacier]

lol

that's uhh
a special

[wintry nebula]

I'm not trying to act like I know everything either this product was just a big let down for me personally obviously

sorry if I come off that way, I do know some things tho and I do know it was basically impossible to make the wooting sound good, so don't market it that way imo

[spark lark]

also regarding pinging, switch pop out and such: we are constantly monitoring these issues and trying to fix them. calder already mentioned we are working on switch improvements and we hope they solve a lot of these issues and can become the norm for our keyboards sold. we aim to give a good experience not a mediocre or bad one.

sound in general has been something we wanna improve with future products

[wintry nebula]

I didn't expect the team to respond to this. It's appreciated. Sorry if I came off too brash

[wintry nebula]

My advice is don't reinvent the wheel.

Unless you have to. I'm not entirely certain with HE switches you can implement MX ideas

[frail tinsel]

this info is pretty outdated tbh, the biggest issue was the switches and they are working on new switches that should hopefully fix a lot of those issues. even with third party switches we have now you can get a wooting to sound pretty nice.

[spark lark]

im also not sure what the exact switch development progress is as im not involved with it.