Gear Progression Chart

[full panther]

and sort of way of accessing the site that doesn't get captured by that just sends more

so some dupe is expected, and its not worth fighting

[karmic fossil]

I would have expected sep to be the most “skipped” but I guess it’s no longer a 98 agility icon

Also yeah I have the chart filled out normally at home and then just like 1 section of it at work at my current prog so I’m skewing the skip results

[full panther]

would it be meaningful QoL if I looked into ways to make things sync? say with some form of auth like disc as the basis?

i could look into that if there is interest, but no promises

[tacit crow]

I would not want to connect my disc with any website

[quaint flame]

sync ladlorchart to your discord profile so you can spot all the runecrafting skippers

[full panther]

noted

i understand the skepticism and will not spend my time looking further into it

[hybrid blaze]

its still 98 agility, people just misread it and think it isn't

thats a nice way to avoid the instant hate

[karmic fossil]

Yeah I’m aware. I think a lot of people who have it marked off aren’t 98 agi though

[hybrid blaze]

maybe yeah

[karmic fossil]

May also be my own bias since it’s the only thing I’m skipping 😂

[tacit crow]

I have it marked off and not 98 too. There's no way to account for the liars on the chart (me) because I wanted clean green boxes.

I also had bluemoon so I didn't do bloodbark and still marked it off cause it's essentially the same thing

[full panther]

Initially i reasoned about the change as softening the edge a bit significantly, instead having it communicate "unlock and spend time at sep". how much time remains unclear without historical context tho. and annoyingly doesnt start paying off until after 92 Q_Q

[drowsy ore]

Bloodbark is just 1% robes though

[tacit crow]

I'm surprised tent whip isn't more skipped

Need to see the effects of doom in a couple of years I guess

[hybrid blaze]

to me its just marketing

[tacit crow]

And all the reddit Andy's using your chart would always do kraken anyway I guess

[full panther]

it combats the knee jerk reaction of wtf

so i suppose yes

[drowsy ore]

I’m excited for anguish 2.0/ raids 4 when you update chart so you can post it to reddit again and everyone comes in to learn/ see it again

[tacit crow]

I get why sep is so efficient/good, but to me 98 agility never has a place on a "gear progression chart"

[full panther]

removing it has downstream effects :S

no ice barrage, etc

[tacit crow]

I know that's it's already been debated ad nauseum in here so I won't go further lol

[full panther]

fair, then lets leave it at that

[quaint flame]

as someone who just rushed straight to 99 agi i think theres some merit to stopping earlier so you actually have a long term activity to do while alching

im in a situation where theres not much benefit in multiskill alching already

but the benefits of sep early is definitely noticable

[tacit crow]

Well you stop at 98 and do the rest at ardy as you need marks so that's your alching time.

[quaint flame]

yea i know the meta, i just did like 2k laps of varlamore in my 50s-80

and i was dry on the ring which i thought would be nice to have for zmi and bf

[dusky fog]

Just vile vigor at zmi.

[quaint flame]

ye i know, its done

[midnight hill]

Anybody see the clip about jagex potentially looking into enhanced weapon seed drop rate 😂

[hybrid blaze]

I have not. Are they going to make it less common?

[midnight hill]

If only 😅

[dusky fog]

Send it

[frail sonnet]

send it or fake

[midnight hill]

tbf, i just tried to find and i deffo misinterpreted it

https://youtu.be/1I9HJS1Tkuk?t=3723 - i put a timestamp but i was a bit mistaken so dont stress fellas 😂

[fossil flame]

makes me exicted for summer sweep up

[karmic fossil]

how difficult would it be to have an rsn lookup to fetch clog/stats to bulk check off steps @full panther

Maybe through temple API or something

[full panther]

i suspect any and all such syncs more or less require its own plugin for policy reasons

nvm i think i spoke too soon!

[full panther]

sounds feasible. maybe a week?

[karmic fossil]

[long pewter]

As a gim who skipped bgs, gims might skip bgs.

[chilly ruin]

whats the reasoning there

[long pewter]

Someone else got one and doesn't do raids so I just stole it

[chilly ruin]

so its not skipped u just didnt get it yourself lol

[long pewter]

Well i didn't mark it on the chart so I'm messing up your data.

[chilly ruin]

having one definitely matters more than how you got it

[long pewter]

True

[chilly ruin]

but yeah good point in general abt how people use the charts

[full panther]

been thinking a bit about how to semantically define what it means to skip a milestone. the base idea was for some milestone X, X is skipped if there are k milestones past X that are completed while X is not completed.

here is a graph of the skip rates in the data with the different values for k!

i interpret this as skips being a bit broadly detectable, not too sensitive on what the actual value for k for most of the chart. Though sensitive for the tail end milestones. those elude me a bit as to what is best practice for those

[hybrid blaze]

I think that's a good idea, and the fact that all three are so similar up until the end shows that it's a robust approach except for endgame items

[hybrid blaze]

the real answer is this is simply such low sample size you can't draw reliable conclusions

it would also not surprise me if people do retirement home items out of order

[full panther]

the skip rate in current implementation however wrongly assume that twisted bow was skipped here though. it doesn't really respect other items as being at the same step. most groups are small, so its a bit hard to speculate on the consquences, but it hits the tail-end ones disproportionately hard prob

current implementation just does "later in the sequence means its index is higher, and thats that"

[hybrid blaze]

I think that's fine as long as you're aware of it

you could define it as 'starting from the next arrow' but that's a bunch of work to implement

[full panther]

great suggestion

[loud jasper]

Is karamja gloves 4 just for teleporting to duradel?

if so im not surprised its skipped 50% of the time

[rustic granite]

Yeah

[loud jasper]

The herblore level might be an issue to some also runecrafting skippers would skip it

[silent pasture]

Having those gloves before starting slayer was the best thing I’ve ever done

[quaint flame]

well if you go for wraths theyre passive

[tacit crow]

Assuming the new worm boss is semi crush weak. Where thinking is a good spot on the chart to slot the new anguish?

Id personally see it pre doom, but maybe at rancour

In the mood to wildly speculate

[hybrid blaze]

sorry, what worm boss?

[atomic wigeon]

Maggot King I assume https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Update:The_Blood_Moon_Rises_-_Overview#The_Maggot_King.

[hybrid blaze]

ah right, ty

[tacit crow]

Yeah that's the guy

[hybrid blaze]

Idk I feel like people have successfully predicted 10 of the last 2 crush weak bosses

[tacit crow]

We know a crush special attack weapon comes from it so that's my basis

[hybrid blaze]

I'd also like to know more about the vampyrium connection, its an ur-maggot but it's not weak to vampyre stuff right?

[real yacht]

by design philosopy they normally use should mean its good against the boss makes sense

[hybrid blaze]

isnt araxxor crush weak but nox hally a slash weapon

[tacit crow]

Rax is weird cause both crush and slash are viable

But that's also mostly because the slash weapons you have when you are farming it are typically much better than your crush weapons

[hybrid blaze]

I thought hasta > whip there

are you thinking of scythe on crush vs on slash?

[tacit crow]

Maybe my experience is bad because I spooned a blade.

They were very close when I was calcing

But was also thinking about oathplate if you have it

Oathplate not relevant to people strictly following chart of course

[opal patrol]

oathplate+saeldor is better than zhasta yea

[chilly ruin]

correct, without oathplate its really hard for slash to win

[rustic granite]

you want the mallet from raids 4 before doing it for sure

[tacit crow]

Now this is the kind of speculation I was looking for.

[rustic granite]

Well you only range the first boss so the necklace won't matter much

[full panther]

I visualized the correlation matrix for skipped milestones:

and here is the comparison with the correlation for compeleted milestones

cool gif, even if i dont know how to make use of much of this just yet c:

[granite veldt]

Could you ELI5 what im looking at for the non-betas here? 😛

[hybrid blaze]

There's a visible difference in the endgame, the rest looks very similar (but at a different intensity)

[rustic granite]

Menstruation

[full panther]

hi, yeah my bad, got too excited about cool plot, and then i had to tend to some irl matters, anyhow here is an explanation to the best of my ability:

Each pixel here is the correlation of two milestone skips. that means how strongly the two milestones tend to be skipped together. The color of the pixel says just how correlated they are.

strong red: they are strongly correlated, this means skipped together often. strong blue: when one is skipped, the other tends to not be skipped.

examples:
wrath rune and karamja gloves 4 has a score of 0.67. this means people who skip the wrath runes are pretty likely to also skip the karamja gloves 4.
wrath rune and piety has a score close to zero though, which says that there really isn't a correlation.

top 10 highest correlations for wrath rune skip:

Karamja gloves 4 0.675011
Bloodbark legs 0.518215
Bloodbark helm 0.515484
Bloodbark body 0.515484
Explorer's ring 4 0.506039
Ancient icon 0.491250
Spellbook Swap 0.477307
Ornate jewellery box 0.476961
Occult altar 0.433372
Bandos godsword 0.432637

[hybrid blaze]

good explanation. Notably, correlation is independent of the base rate. It doesn't tell you how often something happens, just how much more likely it is to happen if the other thing happens.

[real yacht]

Does this also take into account if people simply did nothing to the tile instead of marking it skipped?

[loud jasper]

I think skipping here means not having a tile greened out but having 10 tiles after it greened

[atomic wigeon]

I think skip means hiding it?

[loud jasper]

No I think it just means its not completed and you have completed things past it

[mortal perch]

I wonder if you could get a big data dump from a plugin that collects data from people's collection logs then transpose that against your progression gear chart to better understand what typical progression looks like

Serves no purpose but would be cool

[full panther]

Yes. It actually doesnt take into account the ones who marked skip at all atm

[full panther]

here are the correlations for the data on the skip feature usage

[woven nova]

very readable without a microscope

[full panther]

can be saved to disk and zoomed if needed

[full panther]

Been spending some time interpreting this graph, and at the moment im trying to reason about why slayer helmet is overperforming.

my current understanding is that players may be severely over-estimating the amount of tasks it opens up black mask bonuses to apply for. it's more or less just dust devils. They might also be uncomfortable and/or undervalue the impact of spending points on skips, blocks, and extensions.

thoughts?

[full panther]

this is a bit of monstrosity, but here is the chart sorted by completion percent

[hybrid blaze]

It's because they are dumb it's an iconic item. Players do not reason about tasks, or even consider black mask as an alternative. There's no logic, just cultural heritage that it is a milestone unlock.

I do not believe "people think it unlocks more tasks than it actually does." The train of thought never even gets to that station.

[full panther]

lol

same for glory huh

that one has real unlocks but still

[hybrid blaze]

Yes

[loud jasper]

you cant be running around with a power ammy on

[full panther]

the gentler phrasing is probably calling it culture i suppose

its just a thing ppl do

[hybrid blaze]

"Decisionmaking independent of value analysis"

[full panther]

lold

anyways, deadeye atleast has some reasoning for being overvalued imo. ppl wanna go do boss -> they go do boss.

and over valuing twin staff too prob

[hybrid blaze]

I think people overvalued rigour, but not by much, and are now thinking of deadeye as an easy replacement

[fossil flame]

is this just for early game arc seeing what ppl go for?

[full panther]

i want to understand better how players engage with progression

it might be pretty overkill, but im doing a bit of a writeup about some stuff

so its a collection of misc insights, not targeted at anything just yet

planning new features is definitely a core part though

i've already decided i want to make the percentages inspectable per-item. also thinking about bucketing the items into completion-pct tresholds too

[fossil flame]

just suprising to me that alot of ppl that can do anguish dont have torm. even things like whip/bp i get are deeper in prog but idk bgs but no fang or lb is also weird to me. feel like more ppl would skip bgs if they really cared about lb in a way.

early voidwaker to ig way more ppl go for those things then i thought

[frail sonnet]

how are you supposed to do herblore without rushing desert hard asap?? slayer helmet is extremely important

does bruhsailer nowadays tell people to fill up thousands of vials manually?

[quiet schooner]

U can lamp herb to 70 from basically all quests and diaries

[woven nova]

i think i did like 65-70 manually on the bruhsailer iron

[tall lark]

ive mentioned this several times before but the guide tells u to get karamja gloves 4 before slayer helm, so it assumes u get 82 herb+ without auto vials. which is certainly something

[frail sonnet]

that doesnt sound efficient

lamp slayer

[frail sonnet]

wow wtf

this bruhsailer guy doesnt seem to know what hes doing

[tall lark]

and yeah a lot of people lamp slayer to 58 nowadays which i suppose further cuts into the herb lamp exp u can assume

at least thats what i did

[frail sonnet]

imma be lamping to 66 lol

need to get that desert hard step done without doing a single task

well other than boosting at turael when the time comes

[lunar lodge]

Just felt like telling a story and giving an example of myself engaging with progression, especially with regards to new content or just stuff in the "second half" of the chart.

Last year I was literally just about to go back to do my late-slayer stuff and go back to TOA. BOOM! Doom comes out. I start spending all my time at Doom. Now I'm 5-6x dry on Treads and still don't have them after spending as much time or more at Doom as I did at CG.

My brain says "You know what? Everyone was literally doing the content I was JUST about to do without this item up until now and I need a break. I'm just going to send it."

Or other things happen like the game literally won't even give me Lizardman tasks ever so I don't have DWH.

So I do other content (it's that or burn out), and lo and behold I actually get drops. So my chart ends up looking a bit more like swiss cheese and I could be said to have "skipped" certain items even though I really don't mean to.

I don't consider "skipping" treads to be anywhere near the same level of "skipping" bowfa for example, so I don't beat myself up worrying about it. And also I'm still not skipping treads, because I still do at least some Doom every week.

I think this sort of thing is probably more common at a time in the chart where players have a lot more options that appear "reasonable" to pursue.

[full panther]

makes perfect sense, thanks

[frail sonnet]

are u actually x11

can u post doom calc? thats insane

[lunar lodge]

I'll be more reasonable and less hyperbolic. 😄 Just for fun here's my expected. My actual drops are 3 cloth, 2 staves, 0 treads. I think the shear number of pets I've gotten makes it feel worse.

[frozen olive]

That's what 3-4k delves

[lunar lodge]

It's ~1200 deep delves, but like 800 "runs".

[dusky fog]

Man I remember you running delves and being dry on treads back when the content came out. Crazy that you still haven’t gotten the drop but also respect for gradually continuing it despite that

[flint pebble]

Am I misreading or does the guide have you get slayer helm and desert hard in chapter 3 step 7 with herblore at 74, while not mentioning Karamja gloves 4? Presumably they’d go after the rc grind in step 27 towards the end of the guide.

[chilly ruin]

desert hard is mentioned as a milestone but it's not definitively saying to buy the helm there. it's just an FYI step and defers to the slayer guide. at that stage, you are not 100 combat, so you cannot get karamja gloves 4

i'm not sure that bruhsailer mentioned karamja gloves 4. i think that's being conflated with the chart/assumptions are being made. but it is assumed in bruhsailer you do some herblore while force spawning mogs, and complete diaries if you have the herblore level. but there's no dependencies on those, if you don't have the level for whatever reason you are not unable to complete future steps at all

i think the real question shouldn't be about the slayer helm timing but about how bad making unfinished potions is, really

without knowing or discussing that (beyond just vibes based arguments) you can't really decide what to do about it

[full panther]

Alright, so the slayer helmet situation prompted some digging, and what i've found by tracing the sequencing of milestones from BRUHSailer ch3, is that the chart actually diverges a bit harshly:

highlighted in green are the ones occuring in ch3

ill work towards bringing things back to sync though! this means that the slayer helmet was just outright not correctly placed in the first place, along wiht many other things too

[quaint flame]

thoughts on moving the pharaohs sceptre to the same cluster as black mask?

[full panther]

im going to move things around a bit first, hold on

[rustic granite]

Pharaoh's Sceptre could be retirement home when you think about it

[full panther]

absolutely not hahah

[rustic granite]

It's kind of like ranger boots, you might as well go for them as soon as they're useful if you're ever going to, nothing will speed them up, and they won't save as much time as they take to get

[quaint flame]

it was the only item in the early progression that stood out as too late for me, even the guide recommends getting it pre doing any slayer for ancient swaps and tabletmaking

[granite veldt]

clues dont give thieving xp 🤓

[rustic granite]

But you could get the XP at artefacts elves etc and just use camulet+magic cape+Arceuus poh altar

[granite veldt]

fair enough, but id hate to teleport with camulet for every barrage task tho x), and the if you include the thieving xp the it takes vs the time it saves becomes a bit less obvious

and dont forget the run to the astral altar, unless you make a 2nd altar in your poh?

[rustic granite]

You can only have one, so you'd need to run until 99 magic

(and make the tablets)

[full panther]

I've completed an initial draft of aligning milestone sequencing closer to current Bruhsailer contents.

for visual aid in the process I chartified bruhsailer chapters 2: https://ladlorchart.com/#/chartbuilder?token=LqVXrIvrgco
and 3: https://ladlorchart.com/#/chartbuilder?token=XoczaN-FYkw.

(i recommend looking at chapter 2 to see just how massive that fking chapter is, holy moly)

anyhow, don't hesitate to share if something about this draft looks odd

[hybrid blaze]

Ghommals hilt 2 is before PC in Ch3

Sbs is not explicit but is obtained during sep to 98

Herb sack is ch1

Well, the points for it are, the herb lvl is ch2

Bigger and badder is unlocked during the 58-~75 (100cb) slayer grind

Lumby elite is end of ch3

[tacit crow]

Should be closer to 6k total delves. I went like 3k total, 1k deep and was a little over 3x

[full panther]

i noticed in CH2 summary it says 89 magic, and in ch3 on the ice barrage points in CH3 slayer, to boost for ice barrage whenever possible :o

is that summary a bit conservative?

[full panther]

Ch3 step 29, i.e. the last one, builds the occult altar and whatnot, so this req is satisfied afaik!

[granite veldt]

probably has something to do with agility to 98 being optional/recommended

[hybrid blaze]

The detailed xp sheet should have the answers. I don't think it's notably conservative

[full panther]

looks like 89 is after sep, and then 100cb is 92, then guide stops at 93. hmm.

[muted urchin]

thoughts on moving quiver earlier in the chart? perhaps after thread + lb. i’m assuming that since it’s after oathplate + ultor the chart is assuming meleeing the waves. i think telling learners to melee the waves is kinda troll and time to 1st kc with bofa will be much quicker than melee, even if melee is better dps.

quiver is +2 max hits over assembler with rune arrows at doom (sco bow, elite void, anguish, mixed hide boots, deadeye, 99 range and potted). no max hit with amethyst or dragon arrows but it’s +0.2-0.3 dps

[fossil flame]

u definitely can ye zaxe is pretty close to a whip to last time i looked into it

[tacit crow]

The skill gated capes (inferno and quiver) are always gonna be debated.

If you know you can do them earlier you just do.

[fossil flame]

but if ur new to the game/havint done quiver on another account i would wait

[hollow cobalt]

The chart is not telling you to melee the waves

Its just the latest you can put it off for without terrorism

[loud jasper]

Maybe there could be like a little circle with an "i" above them that you can click or hover over that explains their positioning. But I guess if they were confused they would probably go to the FAQ page

[inland cosmos]

it should already be in the faq

[loud jasper]

yeah its there

[inland cosmos]

I don't disagree with an "i" but the problem with it is probably how much more upkeep work is needed

but idk, that's up to ladlor

[lunar lodge]

I hadn't done quiver on another account. Iron was my first time doing it. I did it basically with blood barrage, an abyssal whip, and bowfa.

My opinion of Quiver is that it's all skill and that the equipment doesn't even matter unless you're WAY WAY ahead of where I was. I am very happy to have done colo earlier and I generally try to recommend people to do it as early as they can.

Colosim is so extremely helpful in the process too. The tools exist. Players just need to learn to do it imo.

Just as another point as to its position on the chart... the chart seems to recommend a ton of melee gear before going for quiver, which implies upgrades for SOL in particular. Sol is not the problem. Learning the waves is the hard part. I think it's pointless to delay for melee upgrades when you can just get plenty of practice with colosim.

IMO I would place quiver before Doom.

[chilly cove]

so for like the few steps before the quiver on the chart, oathplate and ultor, those dont benefit at all from quiver, and thus it makes sense to do quiver after them

[lunar lodge]

If you look at just that block and don't go back any further then you're right. But... Doom, Zulrah, TOA, COX you'd probably like to have a quiver though.

[chilly cove]

ayak is a pretty big upgrade for colo, as well as rigour, and fang, and bp

[lunar lodge]

I disagree with this. If you were FARMING colo I'd agree. But you're not. Success or failure is based on your ability to solve the waves, not your ability to kill the monsters quickly.

We're talking one run.

[chilly cove]

killing things quickly helps you kill south mobs and survive and not die to reinforcements

[lunar lodge]

I don't find that factor to be limited by the items you suggest.

[strange nexus]

Gear doesn’t mean much for Colo

I did a really low level one on my alt and it didn’t seem much harder, a mega rare can help with some south spawns but I wouldn’t call it make or break

[chilly ruin]

in the context of repeat kcs sure. but if it’s just one much less so imo

i’d note that you prob benefit less from quiver at doom if u cant maintain splinters tho so its not entirely 1nd

[cobalt obsidian]

I did bowfa + warped sceptre + zaxe and it felt plenty good

bowfa all the waves is very nice

[dusky fog]

Anyone recommend colo guide for someone who hasn’t done it before? I’m guessing I’d use bowfa, ayuk, and whatever melee weapon is best that I have

[chilly cove]

https://youtu.be/M7sIf6mx4vw

with the addendum of this video for studying double south solves in more detail https://youtu.be/t1qDqa_SXpk

[lunar lodge]

Helpful for understanding solves: https://los.colosim.com/

Practice Sol so you can hopefully beat him the first time you get to him: https://colosim.com/

You can use weaker prayers or not use combats in the sim to simulate weaker weapons depending on what you have.

[dusky fog]

Thanks

[full panther]

have had an idea like this for a while, going to experiment a little bit more to see if viable

[desert flume]

This is a fire idea

I’ve seen a streamer who shan’t be named open the chart, question an items placement and then guess the reasoning completely wrong. Then use that incorrect reasoning to dismiss the entire chart

Infobox goes hard in that scenario if they care enough to click on it

[hushed forge]

leak it coward!

[tacit crow]

It's definitely gnomonkey

[dusky fog]

I like the general idea. Question, when an items placement changes drastically due to maybe new items being introduced or changes to the game, would a new explanation submission have to be made and gain enough upvotes to override the previously correct bis explanation, or would there be another means to deal with this situation?

[frozen olive]

Wouldn't that just be put in the patch notes

[dusky fog]

Because it's not like people will go back and take their thumbs up away after the fact if things were to change

[dusky fog]

yeah idk, would the explanation be retired, removed, etc. once/if it clearly becomes no longer true, or will a new explanation have to naturally gain enough upvotes to overtake it I guess is what I'm getting at

I could just be overthinking this, but I'm imagining that scenario will happen at some point

[frozen olive]

Feel like if something changed you just wipe the votes

[dusky fog]

revote on new submissions would seem logical in that scenario

[full panther]

Correct concern. I don’t actually know just yet :o

[frail sonnet]

this should definitely be added, the amount of skips for unintuitive things like granite body are gonna be halved

[fickle iris]

Slayer helm and broader fletching probably don't belong to the pre-100 combat slayer block anymore, I just hit 80 slayer and still don't have points for either

(iirc bruhsailer still recommends against point boosting)

[full panther]

:o. slayer helm blocks desert hard which is a significant unlock from herblore. hmm

[craggy granite]

I just point boosted some and I feel that if I started off slayer with that, would’ve been more enjoyable overall

[fickle iris]

Yep and it limits multiskilling as well, routing some point boosting after bowfa might make sense

[craggy granite]

The slayer helm unlock is the big reason, I think it’s overall an hour or two of not efficient gameplay but fuck it

[fossil flame]

hebox/jcw opted to point boost in their speedruns for slayer. and that was before slayer changes. Feel like its worth atleast noting even if u dont reccomend it

[full panther]

absolutely

[unkempt niche]

Point boosting for a few hours is definitely less tedious than doing shit tier melee tasks for ages till you can set up a decent block list.

[full panther]

functionality is more or less complete , just need to figure out how to best protect it from abuse

[dusky fog]

Nice work!

[drowsy ore]

Now I want Botlor, that looks sick, nice work!

[tiny belfry]

he box jonge did 9:1 duradel and 50th konar. jcw did wildy boosting and normal slayer after btw!

[hybrid blaze]

Jcw made such a mess of his slayer

[dense sapphire]

They probably did that because of logout slayer. It's pretty likely that those strats are not worth it in irl time

[hybrid blaze]

No, there were big mistakes no matter which option you choose

[full panther]

The annotations feature is live!

Given that I'm giving people the ability to post plaintext directly onto the chart itself, I'm taking a few precautions:

1. I've made a server for the chart & chartbuilder where the bot lives: https://discord.gg/rKSdkvey
2. I will be manually granting the role to make /annotate <milestone id> <explanation> available for use

For those interested, hop on over, show interest in annotating, and I'll assign the role.

[full panther]

passed 15 annotations

[rustic granite]

Shouldn't Dragon Claws go to the retirement home? If you get them you don't use them at any future nodes

Maul too

[abstract hinge]

If the chart is guiding people to be ready for GM those would be useful. Not sure if that’s the ultimate end goal following the chart though, or if that’s just my end goal following the chart

[full panther]

now passed 100

[rustic granite]

Wow, thank you annotators!

[full panther]

ye gray wrote at least 80 of em

[hushed forge]

is there some kind of annotation that can be made for this section containing 90 mage? im a bit lost on how im supposed to get 90 mage at the same time

or is it just cuz of alchpulchre

[frozen olive]

Sepulchre moment

It could be annotated that 82 is enough to be able to boost to barrage

[hushed forge]

ohhhh smoke barrage

great shout

[frozen olive]

Just gotta get out of the burst max hits

[hushed forge]

i can def boost for smoke ty goat

[rustic granite]

could show smoke barrage on the tile then

[cobalt obsidian]

Is the annotation on the DWH correct? Is dwh spec better than emberlight?

Oh emberlight is only 15% on demons, i thought it was more

[frozen olive]

Only place ember spec is decent is yama afaik

[granite veldt]

how do people remove all details on the floor in seuplchre? low detail doesnt seem to work

this stuff

[opal patrol]

try "sepulchre low detail"

[loud jasper]

Wow Torva is in the retirement home now?

atleast put the helm in the normal section imo

[real yacht]

I mean getting 1 max hit for post tob completion sounds like retirement home activities

[fossil flame]

ranger boots sounds more impactful then thelm imo

[fickle iris]

@rustic granite is VW really good for Titans? I'd imagine you just chally spec the last hit before they walk off

[inland cosmos]

Is the extra damage from the spec worth the lost damage from bowfa?

[desert flume]

You can get an extra hit at the start with chally

[hybrid blaze]

I think chally isnt great as even when they step away you have uptime, its not a phase transition in the sense that there's no cooldown

I think vw throughout the fight is good

[fickle iris]

You're right, you lose a bit less than bowfa hit compared to a 4-speed spec so it's worse than arkan blade even

VW apparently averages just 2 lower than chally so it's pretty cracked

[fossil flame]

feel like arkan blade prob better even then vw at royal titans

[fossil flame]

spec atleast

nechs have more defence and its better to dds over vw spec

wait nvm im ie

[rustic granite]

In addition to what Bruh said you can check if it's a better mainhand than hasta depending on your stats

[fervent portal]

chally is probably better if you have a worse range weapon than bofa

i saw a lot of atlatl (me at the time of titans) and rcb

[hybrid blaze]

I think a dds still makes more sense

[rapid grove]

How are we meant to get wrath runes

[frozen olive]

you craft them

[rapid grove]

95 rc? is that really the suggested path

damnn

[frozen olive]

90-91 to boost, but yes

[rapid grove]

I wish there was a more reliable rc boost

[frozen olive]

scar essence allows you to get 4k+ per trip and you can extend boost duration by logging out

[rapid grove]

wtf!

didnt know that

[hollow cobalt]

one invent will be enough most likely

[rapid grove]

okay good to know thank you!!! I am 90 rc right now so this is incredible advice

wait so how does the logout thing work? If my boost is going to expire in 5 seconds, I logout, log back in, and it's reset to 60 seconds?

[fossil flame]

i think logout resets it to 12 seconds

u dont really have to do that imo just being patient for a better proc u can still do atleast 2-3invs without logging out constantly

just dont wana be boosting for it when u have 5-10 seconds before it ticks down

[fickle iris]

If you want to play it safe you can gravestone an extra inventory on top of colossal pouch + inventory

One inventory is 4k+ wraths, gravestone bumps that up to just under 6k

[hybrid blaze]

I thought it was a little lower but either way 3k wraths or so lasts a very long time

[craggy granite]

I’m currently doing my Zmi grind and knocking out fletching, leagues bored me at this point

[granite veldt]

did you find an alted world? asking for a friend

[craggy granite]

Just using the mass worlds and being sad

365 or w/e don’t seem active

[blazing fern]

what's the recommended way to get 75 mage at this stage (pre sepulchre)? if i'm following guide correctly we should only be 69/70 at this point

[hybrid blaze]

I think this might be a discrepancy between the ladlor chart and the BRUHsailer guide

[full panther]

chapter 2 bruhsailer chartified

sec, i can crop this better

[opal patrol]

what the hell

oh theyre quests

[full panther]

chartified chapter 2 of bruhsailer pre today's update: https://ladlorchart.com/#/chartbuilder?token=LqVXrIvrgco

and chapter 3: https://ladlorchart.com/#/chartbuilder?token=XoczaN-FYkw

they look to be corresponding, but i couldve made a slipup in chartification ofc

[hybrid blaze]

spirits of the elid abbreviating to SOTE had be confused for a second 😛

there's an instance or two where there's multiple b2b quests in a questline, do you want those as separate icons? I'm referring to Death to the Dorgeshuun, for example

in general there's more individual quests not on there but arguably they don't deserve to be on there

[full panther]

im a little confused

atm the criterion for putting a quest somewhere was just that it finished. their primary purpose is just a quick reference and not skipping adding things, just so i can keep better track

[hybrid blaze]

I'm looking through the Ch2 chart and comparing to the detailed XP sheet. The chart is missing a dozen or so quest completions

[full panther]

this is intended as bookkeeping tools, theyre quite useless for a user

[hybrid blaze]

I'm asking if you want to include those

[full panther]

ah right

hmm, maybe. im not fully sure how that happened then :o

[hybrid blaze]

I mean it's a big guide, easy to miss something

[full panther]

it really is

[hybrid blaze]

most of the missing quests are smaller, but e.g. Legends Quest is also not on the chart

[full panther]

it is ch2 and ch3 specific ones missing?

[hybrid blaze]

right now I've only looked at Ch2

[full panther]

kk

[hybrid blaze]

in fact im only halfway through

[full panther]

damn. might need to do a second pass over these some time soon then

[hybrid blaze]

yeah idk what would be the easiest way to share missing items

I'm finding quite a few but I don't know of a good way to tell you which ones and where

maybe a voice call would be best even, idk

[full panther]

maybe by its neighbours. can do vc but id need to defer that to another time if so

[hybrid blaze]

some other time then, itd be a lot of time to type it all up

I also dont know if you want all diary tier completions in there, for example. It's a lot

[full panther]

these things main purpose was for syncing up bruhsailer and the chart somewhat. i dont think diary tier completions serves that nescesarily, hmm

i wouldnt recommend anyone actually follow these lol, thats like a slightly smaller amount of steps than the document, but catastrophically less information lol

[hybrid blaze]

ch3 looks more complete to me, I didnt do a thorough search but it's ofc a much shorter chapter

[loud jasper]

Looks like 98 agility (step 85) is before ma2 cape (step 87) in bruhsailer

[blazing fern]

yep, but not on updated chart, which was my question

[hollow cobalt]

The chart and the guide are not the same thing

They are made by different people

[abstract prism]

i think the plan rn is to make it match the guide more so its legit to point it out

[blazing fern]

yep, correct.. in the past they have correlated almost exactly through the end of Bruhsailer Ch 3. question is simply what is the recommended way to get 75 mage prior to the HS step now that this isn't the case. usually there are reasons behind changes so asm just asking

"this may just be a discrepancy between guide and chart", as bruh said earlier, is completely fine response

[frail sonnet]

Yoo RD quest

[wind salmon]

is there a reason chart only has 4 elite diaries? does that assume the others are shit or

[fickle iris]

Most relevant for PvM and progression ig

The others aren't useless but you just do em when you get the requirements

[full panther]

which of these looks better in yall opinion:
A

B

[rustic granite]

B

[lunar lodge]

B

[full panther]

my gut says B too. now are any of u able to articulate why tho? i had some trouble with that

[fossil flame]

honestly i feel like a actually is easier to look at but b seems similar to the current one

[lunar lodge]

Don't need margins and wasted space imo. I think margins help with a wall of text.

I'd rather not have to scroll the chart.

[full panther]

i do like to make use of the horizontal real-estate rather than it creeping too much vertical space ye

kk, alright thanks

[fickle iris]

Negative space is annoying and it's extra bad on a vertical monitor

[upbeat mason]

A gives me we made a mobile site vibes and didn't bother making a 16:9 version

[opal patrol]

holy..

[karmic fossil]

hop on slippi

[real yacht]

https://klipy.com/gifs/avengers-we-are-in-the-endgame-now-1

[frail sonnet]

Grind out a DDS lil guppy

[real yacht]

Oops

[silent pasture]

Bro doxxed his email, quick send him spam mail!

[real yacht]

School email go for it

I graduate Saturday we chillin

[karmic fossil]

Gz

[dreamy whale]

is zcb and tbow without the damn jewellery box reportable?

[real yacht]

[real yacht]

Im shocked youre not more shocked at tbow and ancy top before augury

[opal patrol]

[dreamy whale]

haha im a noob whos furthest node is bclaws

[fervent portal]

im still at the same spot i was a while ago besides spooning a 7kc oathplate chest

wildy annoying even with wildy scout

[round pond]

Even with dead wilderness nowadays?

[opal patrol]

spindel was extremely annoying when i grinded my vw, artio was very dead and calv/vetion was coinflip

[lunar lodge]

When I did it I would say I was most interrupted at Spindel. Similar but not as bad at Calvarion. I don't know if I was even interrupted once at Artio.

[atomic wigeon]

Same, did 352 artio and never attacked. Spindel was the worst and calv wasn't too bad

[real yacht]

Spindel was rhe worst with pkers + bots clogging up every world

[granite veldt]

last time i checked they banned a lot of bots so it should be more silent there now i think(?)

[wooden oriole]

Calv was the worst for me so far

[wind salmon]

I havent had any issues in 900 kc at spindel

[rustic granite]

Only took me 4141 kills, blade is pretty common

[real yacht]

So glad I went dry at spindel

11k spider eggs

[tacit crow]

I somehow got like 1/5th of the eggs I was supposed to at spindel despite going on rate

still mad about that and havent done spidines yet

have like 3k snaps just chillin

Went 2k at artio though so that set me up really good on ranarrs and snaps

[dusky fog]

That’s crazy

[real yacht]

That is brutal idk where I landed at rate wise finished at like 2280

[dusky fog]

10250 for me, enough for a while

[covert bay]

in the chart, it just has amulet of glory after karamja gloves 3. is that crafting level or dimp?

[hollow cobalt]

crafting

[inland cosmos]

The glory is also not there to be used for melee, str ammy is better than it for that. It’s there for ranged + gem mining + teleports

[full panther]

A or B?

A:

[frozen olive]

B but space it better

[dense sapphire]

Imo A is cleaner for "post chart" items

[full panther]

oh yea i should've had a better pic for B

B:

@frozen olive also horizontal padding within the retirement home itself? or just the spacing between main chart and retirement home?

[frozen olive]

I was thinking with the horizontal spacing as well, just to see what full separation looks like

Might be too bloated

[tardy knot]

Hey love the chart, not sure if this is where I should mention this but what about a title above the retirement home? Just to add some spacing. I typically split my 2nd monitor with discord and my browser. It ends up being difficult to differentiate from the main list and retirement home.

[full panther]

spacing between main chart and retirement home is getting implemented along with toggle for lightmode/darkmode today :). im somewhat hesitant on giving retirement home its own sub-title, but i could try it out and see how it looks

[dense sapphire]

Are you going to call it retirement home or come up with a more elegant name?

[full panther]

i have a soft spot for calling it the retirement home hahah

[north acorn]

hi quick question regarding megarare order, i got dhl really early on my hydra grind, should i instead aim for shadow first? i'd probably approach toa with everything else that's listed on the chart but scy and avernic

[chilly cove]

light mode toggle
finalllllly light mode toggle is coming back <3

[inland cosmos]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-blind-flashbang-light-mode-gif-21281004

[neon eagle]

or just a divider

[viscid gyro]

You could add a horizontal line to differentiate it without giving it it's own title

[tardy knot]

Yea, give it a shot. It might be odd to not also have a subtitle on the main list so maybe throw in a title for it like '40 year career' or something.

A line could work too

[full panther]

i dont actually know what cutting edge scy + shadow pts/hr rates are at cox, but with lance 2+x u can push things pretty high, making scy sequencing not very consequential in your case

[neon eagle]

what is the retirement home anyway

items that were deprecated from the guide?

[tardy knot]

Yea

Its the cool kids club

[full panther]

its for the items that for one reason or another don't belong in the main chart.

this can be for them being BIS, but they dont really save time for getting other gear

its a bit of a stickerbook section for giga gamers

[neon eagle]

right i see

like honourable mentions kind of thing

[full panther]

aye

[round pond]

A voters

[dusk needle]

I skipped vw early on and now have both bclaws and dclaws, struggling to find a motivation to grind it out - what do you guys think?

[frozen olive]

its not significant enough at the places its good for it to be worth timewise

[dusk needle]

feels like a retirement home item haha

[hollow cobalt]

Getting either one of vw or bclaws and calling it a day is good enough

and putting the either in retirement home

[quiet schooner]

if u have a long toa grind ahead id still get it tbh