manga-theories

[inner swift]

Logia probably couldn’t awaken at all IMO, it doesn’t really seem like there is anything they can’t do with their respected element.

[late pier]

I'd argue that Logia would probably be the "hardest" to awaken, since the need for it would be rare. You are already so powerful from base. But its possible they could, who knows.

I mean if paramecia and zoan can do it, why not logia.

[inner swift]

Also someone remind me, what makes awakened Zoans different? Cause can’t they just inherently do the in between shapeshift? Not just the straight to animal form

Because Paramecia seems to just be random general super powers, it makes sense for most of them to awaken

[lime stirrup]

Punk Hazard is probably bc awakened logias

[late pier]

I am not sure how someone like dom flamingo controlling strings makes more sense for them to be able to awaken compared to say smoker who can control and turn into smoke. I mean logia already can turn themselves into their power, them being able to awaken the ability to make other things turn into their power makes more sense to me, then a string man being able to make the ground strings.

[inner swift]

Like I said, random weird super powers

[ripe geyser]

While I don’t agree with this I don’t at all hate this. I do not think Kiku will join since she doesn’t feel as rogue or alone as the other Straw Hats do. Also you didn’t mention even one word about Kiku’s personal dream that she’s gonna achieve as a Straw Hat member. Technically what you’re talking about isn’t a 0% chance. Btw you never said Carrot is joining so you automatically get bonus points for that.

[inner swift]

That’s probably a drastic oversimplification on my description of the way Paramecia works, but that’s how I see it

[sand sail]

We now know that the names of Devil Fruits are a subject to change.

This actually wouldn't be true, the naming conventions of devil fruits have never changed. We were lied to specifically about one for a very specific purpose that had nothing to do with the fruit itself.

We do know that the scientific experiments of Punk Hazard were about recreating the Ancient Giants, the race Kaido partially belongs to.

This is a massive, entirely unsupportable assumption on your part, though. The literal only thing he has in common with ancient giants is the horns, and none of the other features at all.

We can’t be sure if he was trying to replicate Kaido's devil fruit per sē

The page you posted directly states that was the intent of collecting his lineage factor, though. And the following SBS further explaining it actually mentions how Vegapunk manages to go even beyond that, and given Vegapunk's hype, it seems the devil fruit was the actual goal there.

The fact that he comes out with a full dragon fruit that doesn't need to awaken actually speaks volumes about this theory most likely not being the case unfortunately. The naming convention more or less cements it as well.

It isn't illogical that Kaido would have awakened already, but unfortunately there's not much to suggest he has, or that if he has he's used any part of it so far in the fight

[ripe geyser]

I agree that there isn’t much evidence to say that Kaido awakened. Though you can’t deny that there also isn’t much evidence that proves he isn’t awakened tbh. I do believe Kaido is awakened but since there’s very little evidence it’s more of a guess

[sand sail]

Well, the only evidence against doesn't really count because it's a lack of evidence. We just don't have any reason to suspect he has yet beyond the fact that he's an Emperor and knows what it is, but even then that isn't really suggesting he can do it himself. Knowing about awakening has never required using it

[late token]

Wait do we actually know kaido is 2/3 Oni? Otherwise really great written and researched theory. But the vegapunk/Momo part makes me think that his fruit is actually just a dragon (not an awakened koi carp)

[sand sail]

No, we have no idea if Oni is even a race. We just know Kaido claimed it as Yamato's birthright, we don't know if there's any connection to any other race or anything like that either

[summer bloom]

maybe he just liked horns

[ashen surge]

I don't know why I hung on the 2/3 bit, it says on the wiki so I have to trust my fellow peer reviewers on that

[late token]

Ah okay guess it was dropped in an sbs or smth gonna have to trust the wiki there in the manga I’m pretty sure we didn’t get a confirmation if he is 2/3 or smth ^^

[formal bridge]

What can awakened jacket jacket fruit do make others jacket. Imagine wearing kaido as jacket you gonna be op

[pure raven]

whole country turns into a jacket

[summer bloom]

u just get loads of people in one jacket

[formal bridge]

Buggy gonna get op with his awakening he will be stronger than mihawk and will be last opponent for zoro

[iron lion]

well the thing with specific paramecia fruits is that their awakenings may be the most varied of all. Something like Otsuru's laundry fruit if it awakens would probably be enough to completely wash the evil from a person's heart

[gray creek]

I’ll give you props, this write-up has a lot of effort out in. It’s well-organized and thorough. I won’t go into your characterization of Big Mom. We disagree, but you back it up well enough.

I don’t find your theory compelling, and I’ll address your Vegepunk counter argument because I really think we don’t need to look any further. I’ll admit I was convinced that VP tried to recreate the Uo Uo in his experiment, however it’s only stated that he used Kaido’s DNA and that it was deemed a failure. It’s entirely plausible the goal was to make an Oni fruit, and that could be a twist for the failure. If we go that route, then VP accidentally copied the Uo Uo instead, in which case Momo once again showcases that the fruit is always a dragon. (On a more nitpicky note, a lot of unrelated research went down at PH, not just ancient giants. Also Kaido is an Oni, not an ancient giant, and even that distinction isn’t very explicit yet.)

Answers to the “fruit is a failure” riddle that also satisfy your theory include the fruit being an ancient giant, which doesn’t relate to the fruit accidentally being awakened; the fruit was somehow tampered with, despite there not only being zero indication of that, and it even being implied it was left alone; or the awakening itself being the failure, which would actually be a major breakthrough and something you’d think VP would explore further. Playing devil’s advocate real quick, we don’t really know VP’s intentions and it’s possible there is no failure, he was just not fully forthcoming to the WG for his own reasons. I could buy their being no defect because that adds to the irony of CP0 being wrong about everything, but it’s a bridge too far to say VP cracked artificial awakening.

Something else that hasn’t been brought up is Kaido’s underwhelming reaction to Momo’s dragon form. If the seiryu form is Kaido’s achievement as the strongest creature, it’s inconsistent that he doesn’t offer any surprise or acknowledgement to Momo.

DF names are consistent barring one intentional deception. That’s the other major counterpoint and your rebuttals to that point don’t feel like they’re being made in good faith so I don’t want to talk about it anymore

[ashen surge]

It's in good faith but I value thematics and concepts of character arcs more than the narrative exposition mechanics that exist for the purposes of world building Would love to hear your characterization of BM at some point if you have the time!

[copper hill]

Have any links elaborating on this?

[daring meadow]

No I haven't seen anyone talk about this for some reason. I don't care enough to do a massive writeup. I just have a gut feeling that there's something more to ace's inclusion in this arc. It's the biggest war since marineford might be some symbolism, i don't fucking know

[gray creek]

I think the reason is convenience. Luffy is rarely a hero for the sake of it, he usually just does whatever he wants. In Wano, though, he’s the liberator. The arc themes pair perfectly with the DF reveal. So enter Tama as Luffy’s connection to the people, and here’s Ace for Luffy’s immediate bond with Tama.

Perhaps more importantly, Yamato and Ace having their connection puts Yamato on the fast track for teaming up with Luffy, instead of having to take the time to establish their character dynamic.

Honestly not sure if their needs to be more than that. It’s a safe bet that Ace was thought up weeeeeell before Kaido’s card naming scheme was conceived. Could be that the obvious gap of the Ace card is what had Oda thinking about him in the first place, who knows

[royal spruce]

So this could probably just be an oversight, but I thought I'd point it out anyway: When Bartolomeo is gushing about potentially meeting the other strawhats in the coliseum, he imagine Sanji as his poser, and Usopp as sogeking cuz he doesn't know usopp yet, but he lists Chopper as the doctor despite the wanted poster indicating him as a pet. just some thing odd i noticed...

[glossy snow]

i would think thats a bit of a plot hole but think about it... There have been a ton of cases where there are pictures, there are audiences around chopper while working on someone, news is bound to spread quickly. For example Chopper runs to save Luffy after Fishman, or literally a ton of other things. You might be right, but I feel like word just got around to pirates, especially bartolomeo who is shown to deep dive into the straw hats journey

[formal bridge]

You are wrong chopper was never written as pet in wanted poster but was assumed by marines. You can link me the wanted poster if you have one.

[royal spruce]

one thing that i'm certain of though is that Bartholomew Kuma had some kind of future sight or some sort of clarvioance to know the perfect areas to send the strawhats, perhaps becomming a cyborg was the only way to unlock such great power

[royal spruce]

well i guess it wasn't said, but with a poster like that i doubt anyone thought he'd have a role as critical as their doctor

no, you got them mixed up Katakuri is the dad and zoro is the mom. thats why they have 3 swords

[formal bridge]

First of all marines have something wrong with their head if they are gonna give chopper his first bounty after he turned into monster point as 50 berries. I don't ever believe that nobody saw him destroy the Enies Lobby.

[royal spruce]

yeah that is a bit weird, but i think they assumed that the two forms were different entities. and since the strawhat dont normally walk around with a monster like that they mustve figured it wasn't related to them?

[formal bridge]

Also remember the soap girl saw him and knew that chopper was the monster.

[candid quarry]

you see that Chopper's bounty poster describes him as PET?

[royal spruce]

ah, the cp9 were on the lam around the time the bounties were issued. and didn't get reinstated until around sabody right? (i might be making excuses at this point. I can't expect oda to be perfect)

[formal bridge]

It's not written on wanted poster bro i just said that didn't say he wasn't assumed.

[royal spruce]

well it certainly doesnt hint him at being a doctor

[candid quarry]

The text in the infoboxes is clearly indicative of what is written on the bounty posters...

We never actually see bounty poster text except for name, berry amount, and the DEAD OR ALIVE portion. But the obvious conclusion we are supposed to drawn is that those infoboxes are directly sourced from the bounty posters
And MARINE

[formal bridge]

We saw them when bartolomeo was showing his wanted poster collection.

[royal spruce]

i cant wait for there to be some kind of one piece atlas and/or bounty competium that lists EVERYTHING when the storry ends

[candid quarry]

yes but it shows squiggles instead of text

[royal spruce]

anyways who wants to bet that Arlong's in Mary Geoise?

[candid quarry]

as a cd prisoner?

[royal spruce]

of course

[candid quarry]

it's definitely possible and it would be really sugoi if oda isn't done telling jinbe and arlong and, by extension, fishertiger's story. Is there a specific reason you think this is the case?

[royal spruce]

I think when the strawhats go there, Nami's gonna have to make a choice.

I think it would be awesome to see how far she's grown since being that scared girl in her village

[candid quarry]

so she just sees arlong in some dramatic scene? maybe him kneeling down and in chains, with the dramatic shadowed face so we just see dark shadows instead of his eyes? and she decides to rescue him from bondage or not?

[royal spruce]

either that, or one of the CDs unleash him as a "pet" and she defeats him, then while he's lying there she decides to the break the cycle by removing his bindings, but definately would not forgive him "you're free, but don't let me see your face ever again" something like that

[pure raven]

i think that zoro will come next chapter as oda said that one strong punch wouldnt defeat kaido, and this is the strongest punch and hiyori is getting attacked as zoro would probably come back and slay orochi, while going to the roof again with luffy and tag teamkaido

[unreal zenith]

zoro die yamato take his place

[royal spruce]

Zoro gonna have an inner journey inside his own brain

[modest skiff]

Please post comments like this in #manga or #also-manga rather than here. This channel is intended for serious, lengthy discussion

[unkempt sapphire]

Momonosuke will use the fire from the fire lanterns to make flame clouds to hold up Onigashima.

[pulsar plume]

so i noticed shanks + the worst generation leaders, individually have glaring commonalities with the revolutionary army commanders in charge of the seas they come from

east blue: belo betty and luffy both have DFs that embody themes of liberation and freedom

south blue: kidd and lindbergh are both technically mechanics/engineers

north blue: law is a doctor, karasu might be too since he wears a plague doctor mask

west blue: shanks has connections to elbaf and morley is a giant

i'm thinking something along the lines of a world-scale war (cough great cleansing) with each captain+commander taking charge to protect their respective regions. no idea where to place blackbeard in this tho, he's a wild card.

[formal bridge]

You can also say rather than shanks. bege and morley both have devil fruit power to hide his friends (crew).

[pulsar plume]

oh, true. thought of shanks first because i was hyperfocusing on the most notorious pirates in the verse rn (was specifically thinking about the speculation of luffy/law/kid becoming the new yonko)

but you're absolutely right

[pure raven]

Shanks definitely

[steel cave]

Yall know when the spoilers coming out?

[modest skiff]

Don’t ask here. Get the role in #old-role-info and wait for your ping.

[steel cave]

Oh alright

[boreal marsh]

Why do we see Law smiling before time skip then, surely there's something that snapped him in those 2 years. I don't think law's smiling can be a retcon either cuz Oda always justifies what he puts in his stories

[dense carbon]

we barely even see him pre ts and yes he smiled alot more but he knows its alot more serious now and you can catch his smirks

[gleaming coyote]

If vander decken is still alive he can shoot Luffy when he’s fighting kaido

[formal bridge]

@gleaming coyote wish ussop gets that fruit he would literally be called best sniper then

[silver swan]

Aight so here’s my theory:

DonQuixote guy ordered Kuma to PawPaw Sabo and Vivi away from the island and they survived cuz of that

[formal bridge]

Everyone is saying that. You are late at bringing that theory.

[silver swan]

Aight so here me out then: Pluton is a ship, but it’s like the Ba Sing Se Drill

This explains why Franky after implementing Pluton’s blueprints into the ship he now has a drill himself, he took inspiration from that even if he didn’t have the means to actually make Pluton

[junior cape]

Big Mom and Kaido have likely not awakened their powers. Let's break that down.

Kaido confirms that Awakening is when your Physical and Mental strength catch up to your abilities. This means that, for any devil fruit user to awaken their fruit, they need to be both immensely physically strong, so that their body can fully handle their abilities, as well as incredibly intelligent in some way, so that they can think of the best ways to use their abilities. Of Kaido and Big Mom, both fail one of these categories: Mental Strength.

For Big Mom, it's obvious: she has the mind of a child, and doesn't even know HOW she got her powers. She flies into uncontrollable hunger fits every couple of days, leaving her completely incapable of rational thought. When tasked with running the Big Mom Pirates, she resigns to a figurehead (an immensely strong one, but still) and lets her children do whatever they want. Anytime she doesn't get what she wants, she kills basically everyone around her in a tantrum, She is impatient, egotistical, and naive. All in all, she is clearly incapable of achieving the mental fortitude required to fully use her Soul-Soul powers.

Kaido is another story. While he is blatantly overpoweringly strong physically, he is also a genius in battle. However, he favors just beating people to death rather than outsmarting them, which means his potential is stunted. This is seen by the fact that most of his moves are just him beating people with a club, or smashing them with dragon strength. He also more generally fails the Mental Strength category by being a career suicidal alcoholic. He is almost NEVER sober, and he constantly wishes someone would come along and kill him in battle, which means he rarely puts up a serious fight, so he never develops his fighting style in combat. More so, he is prone to incredible mood swings, which likely signify other undiagnosed mental issues.

[zenith badge]

king cobra is dead and Vivi is saved by Sabo , vivi and sabo are coming to wano to meet luffy. Sawhart grand feet also coming to wano coz luffy viva card is buring . Zou is destroyed the wall of wano and wano have under city that product sea stone and viva card original. Carrot is the next leader of mist and momo is the shotgun of wano , Our sawhart crew will join Yamato and go to next arc Giant Island. This is my opinion for current One piece

[gleaming coyote]

Seems perfectly logical to me

[silver swan]

But Shiki’s master plan is definitley to wait for Uranus. It’s literally why he fought Roger

[brazen oasis]

Luffy card has prob been burning on and off for the last 3 or so weeks sins WHole cake

[full venture]

I had the dumbest theory just now, but I feel like it may actually hold some water

idk someone's probably thought about this before but, I know a lot of talk has been given in the past to will Yamato join the crew and if so, what would her role on the ship be?

Well I realized what if we're way overthinking things, what if her desire to be Oden IS her role on the ship. The Oden. Hell, Rogers had an Oden, why not. Now I know this sounds super dumb on the one hand, but it also feels like the kinda crazy logic Luffy would use, plus we know she wants to travel with them.

[lunar shell]

Robin is Oden

[half badger]

True

[quaint frost]

luffy card is probally not even alive hes kinda alieve on borrowed time

[ashen surge]

Holy shit Grand Fleet + Bellamy might actually show up because of this

Would be hilarious as well since the Wano gang probably has no idea that this ever happened xD

[lime cape]

Do you think kaido will be defeated in the next chapter?

[alpine forge]

Orochi and bb share similar traits, don't they ? They both acted like servant and later betrayed & killed their masters/captains (bb kill WB and orochi kill yasuie). I feel like some connection is going to be showed later to us

[spare cedar]

well most probably yeah

[gusty needle]

Big mom will be the one to finish kaido off. After Kaidod’s defeat big mom will end up taking his soul once he’s weakened, closing the narrative on pirates, betreal, legacy of the Rox, and Big Moms earlier comment on none of the souls being strong enough to regenerate her. The boost will end up giving her just enough energy to recover and retreat with her kids.

[eager frost]

Chance of her betraying Kaido is high but that’s not how her fruit work

[ashen surge]

Answers to the “fruit is a failure” riddle that also satisfy your theory include the fruit being an ancient giant, which doesn’t relate to the fruit accidentally being awakened; the fruit was somehow tampered with, despite there not only being zero indication of that, and it even being implied it was left alone; or the awakening itself being the failure, which would actually be a major breakthrough and something you’d think VP would explore further. Playing devil’s advocate real quick, we don’t really know VP’s intentions and it’s possible there is no failure, he was just not fully forthcoming to the WG for his own reasons. I could buy their being no defect because that adds to the irony of CP0 being wrong about everything, but it’s a bridge too far to say VP cracked artificial awakening.

After thinking about this over night, as the CP0 agent says, the fruit was only left at Punk Hazard because it was deemed as a failure for the purposes WG was interested in it. Between that time and before Caesar blew the place up Vegapunk could've continued his work on it. It was thought to be destroyed back then, Caesar could've continued to experiment on it after he returned, Aokiji's and Akainu's battle could've have effects on the fruit. It's true there are a lot of unknowns regarding PH that are yet to be seen but I don't think those unknowns actually reject the idea that Momo's and Kaido's fruits are not identical.

[tropic tartan]

It'd be weird to me if anyone but Luffy got the last hit on Kaido. Atm the only thing you can credit him for is holding his own vs an emperor. That's a completely different thing from defeating one. Luffy needs his own victory. Hearing the words "Straw Hat Luffy took down the strongest creature in the world" hits significantly harder than saying "Straw Hat Luffy held his own versus the strongest creature in the world and [insert character] dealt the final blow."

[ashen surge]

I think Kaido will also have some significance in the story later because he wants to wage a war on World Goverment for unknown reasons. If he indeed is a descendant of the Ancient Giants that were probably eradicated like Lunarians, he has a reason to hold a grudge. He's on the path of revenge.

[brazen oasis]

Ponoglyp reader

[cerulean trout]

But isnt the treat coming to an end now, so what purpose would bringing the grandfleet to wano have now?

[zenith badge]

Grandfleet come to save luffy coz War Government Ships were near Wano and all sawhart crew were full of damage. Need someone to save them , I think sabo or glandfleet is sure coming

[cerulean trout]

I dont think sabo is gonna come back before wano ends tho bc what would be the point of revealing he almost died just to reveal that he didnt while everything played off in background in first place

[zenith badge]

Oda said one sawhart member will die , I think Go.D Ussop will die with honor of warrior of the sea in the end of one piece . Hee"

[toxic berry]

luffy

[cerulean trout]

Zoro is litteraly facing death rn but ok luffy gonna die

[toxic berry]

luffy will die in op zoro may get immortality?

[placid bay]

This was meant for going merry...

[naive forge]

piggybacking off of @junior cape's earlier post, I don't think we've seen Kaido's awakening. He has shown his normal form, his animal form, and his hybrid form(s), but we've not seen a "monster point" equivalent. My view is that we should, in the case of Zoan fruits, refer to Awakening as fully transitioning to the archetypical characteristics of the animal or creature in question. This is because of Kaido in Ch 1046: "Awakening is what happens when your mind and body catch up to your powers."

I suggest we look at a few examples:

1. Luffy (Hito Hito no Mi: Model Nika) - a bunch of hybrid forms with the physical characteristics of a laughing god or cartoon character archetype, awakened when Luffy embodies the "ridiculousness" of a happy trickster deity. From what we know of Luffy's temperament and how far he's developed over the years, this checks out.

2. Sengoku (Hito Hito no Mi: Model Buddha) - turns into a giant gold golem pacifist zen master. From what we know of Sengoku's temperament and discipline, this checks out.

3. Chopper (Hito Hito no Mi: Model Human) - devotes his life to curiosity and scientific advancement. embodies compassion and a sense of community, but couldn't control his awakening until he learned to control the fruit's urges and instinct for violence. This kinda checks out, depending on your philosophy?

4. Impel Down Jailer Beasts (Bull, Rhino, Zebra, Koala, Chihuahua) - three of these animals are fiercely territorial and pretty well-suited, as far as animals go, to guarding a prison or chasing escapees. The koala and zebra I'm a little iffy about, maybe they're really shy and enjoy sleeping a lot?

Now, I'm not a major expert on Japanese / Chinese mythology and depictions of Blue/Green/Azure dragons, but everything I found from a cursory run through Google comes up with this creature being a "guardian of the east", or benevolent defender of the people, bringing rain and good fortune. While Kaido may be strong enough physically to encompass the "power" of a dragon, he doesn't seem to embody the notion of being a "Guardian" deity. Instead, he comes across as a brutal conqueror, bringing sorrow, misfortune, and suffering to the people of Wano.

I believe that Kaido will not be shown awakening his fruit during this arc for this reason. Instead, I think we'll see him either do a One Piece Villain 180 and awaken it saving people being experimented on at a WG facility, or that we'll instead see Momonosuke awaken the fruit at some point in the future by protecting Wano and serving as the herald of good fortune and a new era.

We could think of this awakening as having two criteria: "Mind" and "Body" - Momo meets the mind, but perhaps not the body yet? Same with Luffy until he just about died and pushed himself to the absolute limit of stretching? In the case of Chopper, I think physical strength was not so much a requirement (as humans come in all shapes and sizes, and are generally not as physically gifted as wild animals), so much as understanding the cognitive or emotional complexities of being a human, or learning about the "fight" response instead of the usual Reindeer notion of "be skittish and run away at the first sign of trouble".

If anyone has further insight on the role of azure dragons in japanese / chinese mythology, or if there are other awakened Zoans you can think of as examples, please add to this!

Thoughts?

[cedar grail]

Luffy's current move will be the finisher and become a Red move for the Ace and sun symbolism. Gum Gum Red Dwarf possibly.

[ashen surge]

#manga-theories message

[polar shell]

VERY NICE

[pure raven]

I got a question

Why is it, when Kaido looks back on old times, that Linlin (big mom) is thin and normal sized human. I mean at a young age she was already taller than normal human and fat af

Can someone explain??

[cyan berry]

She was never a normal sized human

Even as a child she towered over her parents and was closer to giant children size

[vale plover]

She was always big af wdym 😭

[ashen surge]

It's pretty common in japanese pop culture that characters who have a maternal role turn into ugly hags

[pure raven]

Didn't you all watch the recent episode of One Piece

[vale plover]

Ah no wonder Shinobu turn out like that. Being a mommy to everyone is hard

[ashen surge]

Or in general in Japanese pop culture women just turn ugly and their looks and/or age becomes their defining quality as they age, as men just become more handsome. It's a pretty tiring trope in fact. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChristmasCake

[pure raven]

Damn I think I just dreamed that. I had an story in my head were Kaido noticed that big mom got defeated by law and kid, and then he looked back to old times where they were together on the sea. And on that scene linlin was actually thin and had long hair and was about 20 idk

[modest skiff]

Oda did not say that. Please don’t spread lies here

[ashen surge]

@modest skiff did you read my thing?

[modest skiff]

No I just woke up in the middle of the night and wanted to check the channel before going back to bed. But it’s on my to do list

[split glacier]

That happened already...

[pallid wasp]

Just a random thought;

If Luffy's "Gomu Gomu" Fruit is actually the Sun God Zoan with Cartoony Powers,
What if Blackbeard's "Yami Yami" Fruit is the Moon God Zoan with "Edgy" powers? An "Anti-toon force" counter to Nika's zany powers.

[errant walrus]

does Brook dying count as one of the SH dying?

[pallid wasp]

"Insert skull joke here"

[radiant light]

No

[tulip hedge]

no cause he wasnt a SH when he died

[radiant light]

Will brook get a new swords? Maybe momo will give his swords to brook.
The swords is capable of cutting sky .

[modest skiff]

This isn’t the channel for idle chit chat like this. Please save comments like this for manga channels

[sinful dock]

I have a theory. Since Yami Yami no Mi can nullify devil fruit abilities. What if BB nullified his own fruit using Yami Yami no Mi and since it was nullified, he can take another fruit into his body again. This is the most dumb theory i thought XD

[pallid wasp]

I think Marco did mention Teach's body was "Special" before, so I wouldn't count on it. :3

[spiral kettle]

Sorry if this is not original. Don't have enough time to follow all theories here.

• Blackbeard has 2 devil fruits, since there are 3 heads on his flag we assume he's gonna try to steal a third fruit. Probably zoan since he doesn't have that yet.
• Niko fruit would be very interesting in that case for Blackbeard.
• Kaido claims haki is more important than devil fruits.
• Oda like to have Luffy lose a few times before finally coming out on top

What if, Blackbeard manages to steal Luffy's fruit. Which would at first seem like a big loss, but ultimately, its would enable Luffy to gain the full potential of haki, which wouldn't be possible while relying on df powers.And that's how he will kick BB's ass.

It does seem that fruit owner has to be dead before BB can steal the fruit, but I guess the Opi Opi no mi fruit can play it's role there.

This would mean that BB only becomes the main antagonist after reaching Laugh tale. Where he will be in the way of Luffy's ultimate goal.

Non-related, I think BB is a triplet. And with gaining the Yami Yami no Mi all 3 can live in 1 body. Sharing their devil fruit powers with the main BB.

[boreal perch]

its true haki is most important but against 3 fruits? hey goodluck

[thorny scaffold]

If Blackbeard is getting a 3rd fruit it has to be a zoan. He has a logia and paramecia, so the only option is for him to get a zoan as his 3rd fruit, look up all the zoan users in one piece and take your pick, i personally think marcos kicking the bucket:D

[spiral kettle]

Marco, Kaido, Luffy, Yamato ... all valid options.

[raw spear]

plot armor does not allow for luffy to die

[spiral kettle]

Are we certain the user needs to be dead for BB to be able to steal the fruit? Just a question.

[raw spear]

yes sir

[spiral kettle]

As I said, i think the opi opi no mi fruit can play it's part there.

[thorny scaffold]

Ace is actually alive, shanks took his body and revived him, since his death did happen for a fact, his fruit disappeared, but last second shanks revived him. 😄

[raw spear]

these are all things oda wouldnt do

[vestal orbit]

That’s what oda wants you to think

[spiral kettle]

Oda is known to be predictable ... 😅

[raw spear]

why would oda kill luffy again and take his fruit away what

[thorny scaffold]

ace and dragon were a cover up to hide that luffy is rodgers actual son.

[pure raven]

Shanks is actually a villain.

Why would Shanks be a villain you might ask? Shanks is seen as a mysterious figure and has been respected by the government/marines.

In the reverie arc, Shanks is seen talking to the 5 elders about Luffy (or heavily implied that it's Luffy), why would he talk to the 5 elders about The Gum Gum Fruit/about Luffy

During the Paramount War, Shanks easily stops the war and on top of that Sengoku points out "because of your reputation" or something along those lines.. Something about me tells me that Shanks is actually a affiliated with the government

And on top of that, Shanks is an Emperor, i don't see Luffy walking up to Shanks saying hello, I feel as if there would be a fight that would be very emotional for Luffy and cause him not to fight Shanks

[raw spear]

theyd promised they would meet up when luffy was an accomplished pirate pirate king

[pure raven]

I was also considering that but Oda is always unpredictable so betrayal is always an option

[lime stirrup]

^ If Shanks was a government asset, he would've told Luffy to become a marine like Garp wanted him to, especially if he knew the true nature of the gum-gum fruit

[sick raft]

I feel like if it was gonna be Marco then Oda would’ve had it happen at the Payback War where they lost to Blackbeard … my money is on Orochi unless Oda pulls another Nika twist and says the Yami is actually a mythical zoan which is why it doesn’t act like a logia

[thorny scaffold]

didnt even think of that possibility

[pure raven]

He could be a spy like X Drake and Koby

[exotic portal]

I think Luffy will become pirate king

[lime stirrup]

But why would he encourage the person with the dangerous fruit to become a pirate? If he at all was involved with the WG, he certainly shouldn't have encouraged Luffy

[pure raven]

Good point but shanks is often mysterious so I cannot make up any false points to counter that

[sand sail]

Shanks really isn't being displayed or hinted at toward villainy at all. A villain doesn't have a caring internal monologue about someone who should be their enemy. The Gorosei allowing Shanks was an entirely irregular thing that they even point out. Shanks is only mysterious because we don't know about him, he's really not a mystery to the One Piece world at all as far as anyone's ever referred to him.

He's seen talking to the 5 elders, it's honestly more likely he talked about Blackbeard than Luffy. There was legitimately no implication either way about whom he was speaking, I'm not sure how it's "heavily implied" to be Luffy by any means. He literally just says "I'm here to talk about a certain pirate."

Shanks didn't easily stop the war at Marineford. He had to pull up, threaten everyone that he'd join the fight if they wanted, and then Sengoku accepted the ceasefire out of respect for Whitebeard. Sengoku never says it's because of his reputation, but the government does consider Shanks to not be a troublemaker or someone who wants to shake up the world. In fact, the Gorosei talk about him alone in the beginning of the series and pass that judgement, directly implying that there is no connection between them whatsoever.

Shanks being an Emperor doesn't matter. He was an Emperor when Ace, a complete stranger, rolled up to him and said hello. Why wouldn't Luffy?

[boreal marsh]

Bro i wasn't the guy who said Law never smiles, that was the other guy i was replying to

[karmic token]

The only thing I would say that stands against that is that all of his red attacks are named after birds, maybe gomu gomu no red yatagarasu

[lunar shell]

Sengoku did say «  because its you red hair, Its ok » . On a side note

[fathom matrix]

Here's what I think will happen after Wano

Regardless of if Kaido lives or dies, the news will eventually get out somehow, and when it does, the news will be all over it.

"BIG MOM AND KAIDO, ONCE ALLIED, NOW DEFEATED" stating an Alliance of the Strawhats, Kidd Pirates and Heart Pirates had helped in a raid on Wano to defeat Big Mom and Kaido.

Kaido may lose his Yonko Status, cause he has nothing, no crew, no tobiroppo, no all stars, no Onigeshima, nothing.

But another title or headlines might say "Like a Hydra, when 1 head is cut off, 3 more take it's place. Luffy, Kidd and Law, proclaimed to be the new 3 emporers of the sea"

Kidd might get cocky being called one, but Law will most likely not care at all, with Luffy not thinking much of it.

[heady parrot]

so it’d go “4 emperors” > “5 emperors” > “6 emperors” lol

wait til we learn it was just the three emperors before shanks came around.

[fathom matrix]

Probably was. Maybe Kaido, Big Mom and Whitebeard got those titles for being known to be on the Rocks crew.

[sterile goblet]

no they didn't

[heady parrot]

they were probably just the only 3 holding territory and practical standing armies in the new world

[pure raven]

I think we won't go to elbaf like everyone is saying but go straight to save sabo since I believe he was framed on killing cobra while attempting to kill vivi as Morgan says, a killing!... and a attempt is interesting too. Furthermore blackbeard states how he will get it before they do suggesting he will possible get sabo's devil fruit just like how he attempted to get it back in dressrosa

The people of alabaster were crying while the revolutionaries were shocked

[inner swift]

What is gonna happen to Big Mom post-Wano? Any major theories or guesses?

[heady parrot]

She’ll probably pull up to elbaf and get her shit rocked

[sterile goblet]

the fact that they went on to become yonkou is what hypes up Rocks as a pirate group, it's not that they became yonkou because of the Rocks membership. there were other rocks pirates who weren't yonkou but were of note. Yonkou is never associated as a thing tied to Rocks membership

[pure raven]

I think big mom is gone for good

[inner swift]

TBH I’m tired of Big Mom, she’s just my least favourite Yonko, and there really isn’t much of a story left for her.

Whereas Teach and Shanks remain almost entirely mysteries, and Some of Kaido’s past remains unknown, like the whole Kaido being a “thing”

[ripe crag]

Devil fruits curse your soul and prevent reincarnation. This is why the strongest characters in one piece do not eat devil fruits because it will prevent them from reincarnating when they die. This is why Rodger died with a smile on his face because he knew he would come back in some shape or form.

[fathom matrix]

I think that's cause Berges was going to get the flame flame fruit, not so much so that BB wanted it himself, as he jokingly said "It'll be like Ace joining my crew" cause Ace rejected his offer.

I think they're done going after 1 Logia fruit, as that was just Berges going on his own mission to retrieve it, not so much as a top priority, as the BB was just hunting DFs in general

Heck, Berges may have found an even stronger fruit or maybe a fire based paramecia

[inner swift]

Don’t you mean…

…Jesus?

[formal bridge]

Fire based paramecia Charlotte Oven

[fathom matrix]

The power reincarnates but into a new fruit, but there's nothing to say they can't. people don't eat DFs cause 1, the ocean makes you weaker, 2 you could get an unfavourable power, 3. if you eat 2, you explode.

[formal bridge]

We still haven't seen people explode could be just a rumour WG spread.

[inner swift]

Probably to prevent an army of multi fruit users

[fathom matrix]

WELLLLLLLLLLLLLL here's the thing. Why would anyone want to listen to the WG all the time? I'm sure there has been instances within the last 800 years, where someone ate 2 fruits and exploded.

CAUSE, wouldn't have there already been stories of someone who ate 2 fruits going every so often? Sure, they're rare, but Yonko crews get a shit ton of them, so surely some dumbasses must have done it once or twice.

The scientists on the grand line made sure to confirm that information

[pure raven]

I think Luffy will also address the news about Sabo too

[inner swift]

Wait

[pure raven]

do you think momo will save onegashmia

[formal bridge]

I don't think anyone would be stupid enough to eat two if there are rumour like this.

[lime cape]

Maybe is something like the monkey experiment, you can eat two fruits perfectly but there is a universal belief in that superstition and no one does it even though you have never seen anyone eating two fruits and then exploded

[fathom matrix]

There are a lot of dumbasses in one piece, someone would have at least tried.

Hell, again, why would pirates believe the WG or official sources?

[pure raven]

I'm sure it'll be revealed at some point how BB ate WB's fruit at the very moment when it was suppose to regrow somewhere around the world

[sand sail]

He says this in regards to Shanks taking Whitebeard's body, instead of the marines displaying it.

Not to ending the war

[formal bridge]

Because they don't wanna die also marines give warnings to normal people too pirates won't think WG is lying. Only some pirates know that WG is hiding something.

[sand sail]

It's not a rumor, it was confirmed research they did

The Gorosei also go on to say that in all of history Blackbeard's the first one to ever do it, which perfectly validates the research really

[formal bridge]

Can you tell me the chapter. I want to look for myself.

[thorny scaffold]

its funny that 50 characters probably already know what the one piece is but for some reason they are satisfied with just existing in the same world as it, they didnt cease it or anything, they just laughed and left.

[sand sail]

This isn't the channel for that kind of comment.

[inner swift]

Why didn’t Kaido just eat a second fruit to die?! He could easily get his hands on one! He’s fucking Kaido!!

[sand sail]

That's also not a topic for this channel, go ahead and ask in #also-manga

[inner swift]

Meant to send that a while ago but I see it’s still relevant

[formal bridge]

It just says there is no historical precedent. Doesn't mean they researched.

[inner swift]

If Kaido was so desperate for death, to even attempt suicide by jumping off a sky island, why was eating a second fruit never a considered option for him?

[sand sail]

That's almost literally what that means, actually. And given their position and the fact that they literally own the scientists researching it, we can probably dismiss this opinion as invalid concerning the scene.

[formal bridge]

So if there is no historical precedent of anyone eating two df how do they know 2df = Boom

[inner swift]

Kaido should try it

Biggest ever plot hole in one piece

[sand sail]

Because people have eaten two and exploded.

[sand sail]

You've misunderstood Kaido's character if you think this is a plot hole

[inner swift]

Jokes on you I’m only at fish man island but I know about most of what happens after

But seriously, what is so different from jumping from the sky as a suicide attempt?

[strong ibex]

My theory is that he’s not really trying to kill himself but looking for a thrill. The fight with Luffy will awaken that.

[sand sail]

This is seriously a topic for another channel. Kaido isn't trying to commit suicide because he just wants to die, he's trying to find a perfect death. He's not going to eat two devil fruits, he literally orders them wholesale. He could get one at any time. What is the point in dying that way?

Go ahead and respond in #also-manga if you need, this isn't a theories topic.

[haughty shale]

there is nothing to clarify that the gorosei themselves aren't oblivious to several parts of the void century, what i mean is that there could have been someone who could use several fruits at once back then

[sand sail]

Sure, but that doesn't really matter. The point is they've actually commissioned and verified research about it, and that research is known to their intelligence groups.

Someone could have done it before, that does not change the fact that the normal process is your body breaks apart when eating two.

That just makes them another outlier like Blackbeard in history

[uneven tide]

My theory: pluton is the final weapon found in mariejoes (Sabo prolly found the truth). All blue is the mixture of all waters of the 4 seas ie east blue west blue north blue and south blue. Only way to aquire it Ok sir to create a hole in marejois and mix the waters. This can be done only by destroying fisherman Island and marejois. Which luffy will eventually do. This will mark the start of the greatest war of one piece

[severe sentinel]

The question that must be answered is why Roger, Nolan, Oden, etc., could not be Joyboy. What makes Luffy different from them? If anything, Luffy is the carbon copy of Roger, the only difference being that the readers know more of Luffy’s journey in comparison to Roger’s. Both of us likely agree that ‘Joyboy’ shouldn’t/(probably) isn’t defined by a devil fruit, rather the actions and demeanour they may possess. The mantle of Joyboy does not awaken, it is developed/achieved.

In the story, it’s 100% evident that Luffy is Joyboy. Is this status granted by his fruit? Absolutely not, else that would contradict the moral nature of the title. The status of Joyboy is granted by one’s journey, in the case of One Piece, Luffy’s. When Luffy is compared to Nika/Joyboy, it’s in direct relation to his demeanor, not his devil fruit. Luffy is hinted to be Joyboy when he brings freedom, joy, peace, and stability to those unable to attain it for themselves. The reincarnate of Joyboy is someone who mimics his gravitas, not his ability, as his ability is contingent on his (mimicked in Luffy’s case) gravitas. The only question remaining is what all previous ‘failed’ Joyboy’s lacked that Luffy has. If readers are meant to believe that One Piece is a story beyond: “muh destiny, no explanation required,” Oda must provide an explanation.

The “confirmation” displayed in 1043 is a deliberate red herring that has several underlying implications. Luffy’s fruit (Nika Nika no mi) was not awakened in centuries, meaning that its awakening requires someone special. Because Luffy is special, the fruit awakened, not the other way around. The fruit does not make Luffy special, he makes it special by merely being…Luffy. Once again, what is special about Luffy that allowed for the fruit to awaken? Was it because he enjoyed the fight with Kaido, thus resembling Joyboy? No, as Joyboy is not defined by his fights, but by his actions. Was it because he had the fruit in combination with his personality? No, as that would be uncharacteristic of Oda’s writing style, it would be the equivalent of writing: “muh destiny, no need for sufficient explanation.”

Whichever way one may view it, Oda must explain what makes Luffy special as both his fruit’s awakening and the mantle of Joyboy are reliant upon it. Zunesha came to Wano because Luffy was becoming remarkably like Joyboy, thus the drums started beating, only becoming extremely clear when he died. Kaido perceived Joyboy as the “strongest,” thus he comments (implicitly deduced from his dialogue) on Luffy’s smile during the fight as possibly being a sign of Joyboy. The story implies that Kaido’s view of Joyboy is true, yet lacking context, as he only views one external aspect of Joyboy - his strength. The foundation of a potential ‘Joyboy’ are their actions, more specifically actions that free people and bring them together. Luffy’s greatest strength is his ability to bring people together, thus Joyboy’s greatest strength.

[iron lion]

I think Luffy's personality being the best parts of Roger along with keeping his temper in check (with what shanks told him and what he's displayed) along with 'that ability' to make friends out of foes is something that will make him worthy of the mantle of Joyboy, as you've explained above.

[wintry lake]

Aren’t them all fruitless and joyboy had an actual fruit? Just like kaido pointed out

[severe sentinel]

Luffy has attained great strength, yes, but true strength is not Kaido’s perception of it, it’s what the story displays through Luffy’s journey, thus by virtue - themes. To be strong is to be able to properly utilize that strength to create more joy in a corrupt world, that’s when one may truly become Joyboy. Luffy seems similar to Joyboy from Kaido’s perspective, but as the narrative makes 100% evident, Kaido is only correct in one facet of what makes an individual ‘Joyboy.’ Zunesha did not only come to Wano because Luffy was enjoying his fight as that would mean Kaido is correct in his main analysis of Joyboy’s motives. Zunesha came to Wano to emphasize the importance of Luffy’s greatest battle (from a narrative perspective). As mentioned, Luffy comes close to being Joyboy when he brings freedom to others and connects them, thus the longest arc of One Piece would only further solidify that fact. This is Luffy’s greatest bout, his final test to see if he can truly be the one to bring the dawn. Wano is the final location necessary to understand how to find/create the One Piece, thus it is fitting for Zunesha to arrive. Sensing the importance of Wano, Zunesha came to emphasize the return/the emergence of someone capable of bringing the dawn, someone capable of fulfilling Joyboy’s Will - Luffy. This analysis can only be completed when Oda answers what is special about Wano, why would Joyboy re-emerge in Wano? Beyond its connection to the ancient kingdom, Wano emasculates a false Joyboy in Kaido and the true Joyboy in Luffy who must truly display what it means to be Joyboy to Kaido. When Kaido recognizes Luffy as someone capable of fulfilling Joyboy’s Will, the story will finally be able to progress to the final war where Luffy will surpass Joyboy by defeating the World Government, thus bringing Joy and Liberation.

Luffy’s death is more-so symbolic of his completion as a man truly capable of fulfilling filling Joyboy’s Will as it is a direct jab at the false Joyboy - Kaido. As a false Joyboy, Kaido’s desires are juxtaposed with Luffy’s. Kaido desires a great death to fulfill his legacy, and Luffy desires to stay alive to protect those around him. Kaido solely believes in brute strength, Luffy recognizes someone’s true strength as separate from their physique. Both characters are linked with Joyboy, thus Wano reflects that. One must recognize the other to truly facilitate the return of Joyboy. The narrative must come to a decisive clash between the false and true Joyboys, whether in battle or in dialogue, it must occur. Zunesha’s recognition is one thing to service the plot, Kaido’s recognition is essential to conclude the main dynamic of Wano. True narrative development regarding Joyboy is only fitting to derive from the man obsessed with the title.

Joyboy’s return is facilitated by Luffy as an individual, not by his fruit, nor by a destiny provided to him at birth. It’s only a matter of time when Oda truly explores what it means to be Joyboy, then one may finally deduce what made Luffy truly capable of awakening his fruit and what made him worthy of surpassing/being recognized as the next Joyboy. Luffy isn’t a reincarnation, rather the story overwhelmingly suggests that Luffy has inherited Joyboy’s unfulfilled Will, thus he is the one capable of fulfilling the broad destiny. The ideas of what Joyboy will do (meeting with Poseidon and coming to Wano) are not mutually exclusive to the idea of a broad destiny being present, rather than a specific destiny only applicable to Luffy. Ultimately, it’s because Luffy acts the way in which he does that he can truly do what Joyboy could not, thus bringing the dawn of the world.

TLDR; Kaido must recognize Luffy as the heir to Joyboy.

[sand sail]

@severe sentinel Edit out your other series reference.

[severe sentinel]

What reference?

[sand sail]

The one here

Yes, other series details are not allowed outside of #other-series and you made a specific reference to a spoiling event, please edit it out or I'll just delete the message.

[severe sentinel]

It's tagged as a spoiler, is that fine?

[sand sail]

No, they're not allowed even tagged, please edit it out entirely. You don't need the reference in your message.

[sand sail]

Perfect ty

[terse fog]

I would highly recommend seeing if you can get that pinged it was great, without pushing the limits of context and also left tons of area to discuss (in a good way, not saying there was not enough but that there was so much that you could have a lot to talk about even for this channel).

[modest skiff]

You guys make my obsessive moderation of this channel worthwhile lots of great posts lately

[primal cargo]

At the point we're at, I don't think it's possible to talk about someone "being Joyboy" without first addressing what those words mean.
Joyboy is the name of a man who is dead. Nobody will ever "be Joyboy" in the literal sense. The question is, what does it mean for us in the present when people discuss "character x is/isn't/will be/could be Joyboy" ?
The notion of "being Joyboy" exists because certain characters have brought it up. Those are Oden : "We must now open [Wano's] borders again, for the day Joyboy appears !", Kaidou : "You couldn't be Joyboy either...", King : "You think I'm Joyboy ?" and Zunesha : "Joyboy ! He has returned !"
The Zunesha one is unambiguously about the Nika awakening. Zunesha comments on the sound of Luffy's heartbeat, which is a property of his Devil Fruit awakening. So there is no denying that in the eyes of Zunesha, Luffy "being Joyboy" is entirely about his ability to awaken the power of the Nika fruit.
Now the other occurrences are much more vague, and that's why we had been assuming that there was some sort of reincarnation going on. But there is nothing in the manga that actually indicates a reincarnation, whether by random chance, the hand of fate, eating a fruit or anything at all. All we have is the notion that at some point, there will be someone who will "be Joyboy". Oden tells us that this person will come to Wano, and it's possible that Kaidou's presence in Wano is also because he expects that person to show up.
What we don't know is what that person will have that will make them "Joyboy".

Now for my personal theory :
If "being Joyboy" was only about personality, Roger could have been Joyboy. If it was about strength, or ambition, or achievement, Roger could have been Joyboy. Yet he was not and Luffy is. There are only two things that Luffy has over Roger : he has eaten the Gum-Gum fruit, and he's alive.
I don't think Roger did anything wrong. I think from the start, he was never going to be Joyboy ; and neither was Noland, or anyone else. And that would be because "being Joyboy" is not something that you do.
800 years ago, there was probably some sort of prophecy that said that "One day, someone will appear and achieve what Joyboy couldn't." That person does not need to have anything to do with Joyboy in order to do the thing.
However, I think the prophecy also said that that person would be a user of the Nika fruit.
The Nika fruit is the fruit Joyboy was using, and almost certainly the reason why he was called "Joyboy". For that reason and that reason alone, it was remembered that the one who will carry out the prophecy in the distant future will "be Joyboy".
in other words, I think the idea of "someone being Joyboy" was born of the knowledge that a Nika fruit user will appear and finish what Joyboy started.
I don't think Luffy had to "be Joyboy" for any of this to take place ; simply his appearance was foreseen, and he was in advance called "Joyboy" by the people of the past who had heard the prophecy.

[pure raven]

what if at some point zoro is ordered to cut luffy's arm to free him from something? I say this because a lot of stuff that happened in paradise and in the prologue has been referenced way later, so we could get it as a callback to zoro wanting to cut his legs and people saying luffy's weakness is blades but never managing to cut him. Since both of these things didn't bring to any real consequence I can see them being used as foreshadowing for this, later on. Plus, luffy is rubber so he could melt and get stuck that way

[ornate perch]

zoro would probably rather die than hurt his captain

[pure raven]

nah if luffy gives an order it's an order, they even had a quarrel over this at water 7, actually it would reinforce the water 7 bit. Not that zoro would actually need to do it, something could happen that solves the thing before it comes to that, but it'd be a nice callback if they brought up the option and maybe debated it

[ornate perch]

Oh wait I thought you mean zoro getting manipulated by someone and cutting Luffy's arm that way.
Either way that would be a really stupid way for Luffy to lose his arm, Oda wouldn't do that lmao

[pure raven]

well, that depends on the circumstance that leads him to being stuck in the first place and whether it's thematically consistent with the arc they would be in, but again, it's not like zoro has to cut the arm, they can just talk about it and then sanji (I assume) could solve the problem some other way

[ornate perch]

Why would Luffy ever get stuck though? Like he's got all the type of transformations (into a giant, G3, G2, G4),.. to break free if he's ever held tight somewhere. This dude is capable of fighting the King of beasts Kaido, has an immense strength, haki, willpower,...

[pure raven]

idk, he could get stuck on something he can't get out of, maybe he can't break it because it's important, or it's the eve/adam tree and it's also made of rubber, or something else

or he could be handcuffed with seastone (it still keeps him rubbery as far as we know)

[ornate perch]

Can't Luffy break seastone with his haki?

[pure raven]

not if the whole thing is made of seastone, the cuffs luffy and yamato had weren't full seastone (this has been confirmed)

[tough pond]

bro got the DBZ weights on

[pure raven]

so you think big mom isn't worthy?

[slender fulcrum]

All blue already exists though. Sanji realised it when he found a fish that was uncommon to east blue

Might just be an underwater area or whatever

[pure raven]

isnt the whole grand line a mixture of the 4 seas water? Also would the all blue be where fishman island is under marie jois since it connects to all the seas from under marie jois?

[barren fox]

I just saw this https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a61pYDL_460swp.webp and made me think... since luffy has the cartoon-cartoon fruit, does that mean he can also inflate something and use it as a baloon to fly/hover?

[empty zenith]

blackbeards awakening is going to make it so he can steal other peoples devil fruits and when luffy finally defeats kaido black beard will come and steal kaidos fruit

[glossy snow]

my personal theory is that blackbeard will get one of every type of fruit but not be able to awaken any of them, in which he puts on the same show that he did with whitebeard to kaido and have earthquake dark and dragon fruits. I like to justify this by how everything he kinda does is in sets of 3, like how he gave shanks 3 lines on his eye, and the three guns he carries and such

[modest skiff]

Luffy does not have the cartoon fruit. Also please ask light hearted questions like this in the manga channels

[naive laurel]

Does anyone know if it is allowed to put links to reddit to put a theory?

[modest skiff]

Yes but please put effort into giving us a good summary of what is in the link rather than just pasting a link. Give us a good idea of what ideas are presented so we have something to discuss here as well

[naive laurel]

thanks!! I will try to give a good summary of the theory then^^

I put the link to a theory that I have done recently.
It's about the relationship I think there may be between ancient weapons and devil fruits.
In this theory I base myself above all on the history of enel in space, especially on the panels that show some old murals.
I also mini-analyze other theories that I saw to make sense of mine, anything I put may have already been said, but I have not found anything similar (notice that something may be misspelled, because English is not my native language, and I use the translator a lot)
https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/ucq114/ancient_weapons_and_devil_fruit_theory/

[stray warren]

I'm just gonna put this here, luffy is gonna be at the finishing of his fight which is where he gets tired and no longer can fight but right as kaido is about to do something to him zoro comes in with enma, possibly something similar to Oden's attack since it literally was the only thing to leave a scar on kaido, the zoro kills kaido may possibly be true but it's a ridiculous theory I came up with, I'll leave this hear until the fight concludes

[thorny scaffold]

there are going to be at least 1400 chapters of one piece before it ends:D

[pure raven]

Shanks might turn on luffy?

[burnt swift]

Shanks turns on luffy because he recruited a damn fish

[grave hamlet]

In the final fight i think luffy is gonna eat a rumble ball

[upbeat vector]

I think he might just take a perc 30

[hollow tartan]

What if luffy's devil fruit let him have the powers of all the other devil fruits

[delicate crow]

My theory is that someone on Gold Rogers crew has or had a map to the One piece already took it from its resting position Or Gold Roger never had the one piece and was only a lie he made up.

[proud hamlet]

dont get it

[delicate crow]

which part

[proud hamlet]

can u reiterate ur theory

[delicate crow]

that Gold Roger made up the One piece as his dying words?

[delicate crow]

Or someone took the one piece a long time ago?

[proud hamlet]

interesting but there rlly is no basis for it

[lime stirrup]

Didn't rayleigh confirm that the one piece is real

[delicate crow]

wdym by that

[proud hamlet]

i mean there r no basis that roger was faking the one piece

[delicate crow]

true its just what i think also @lime stirrup "Trivia Eiichiro Oda himself confirmed in an interview with Momoko Sakura that the One Piece is not something like "the journey itself was the real treasure " and that it is, in fact, a physical reward. Whitebeard stated in his final words that the world will be "shaken to its core" when the One Piece is found." so i guess thats ones off the table

[pure raven]

theory: im sama is shanks i refuse to back down

[delicate crow]

bruv

[knotty turtle]

hello Reddit one piece discord i have a question

approximately how old would y’all say Enel is during the skypeia arc. I don’t think it’s ever stated and im trying to do some Regular Person Calculations

[delicate crow]

well isn't Enel a god

[woven moth]

I would theorize 25-27 by human standards pre-timeskip

[knotty turtle]

he’s not not a god

[delicate crow]

well then i think about 20

[knotty turtle]

good enough for me. thank y’all ♡

[delicate crow]

Is Gold Roger related to Luffy

[magic saddle]

guys. what if the ancient weapon uranus is actually the sun god and moon god devilfruits

[sand chasm]

Damn what if gold Roger died to become reincarnated as Luffy. Remember Roger & his crew reached Rafael too early according to prophecy. So he possibly either faked his illness or he was actually sick (either way he should’ve been able to recover from his illness because the one-piece treasure includes a medicine that chopper claims can cure any illness) so that can add on top of why he had no problem being executed because he knew he’d come back to laugh tale at the right time. He’s probably just watching thru Luffy’s eyes or sumn

[amber oar]

@knotty turtle @woven moth @delicate crow Enel has a canon age, 37 pre timeskip

[brazen kestrel]

wait what if luffy fruit is Uranus that would mean the luffy is Uranus

[delicate crow]

thank you

[knotty turtle]

well damn. thank you

[pallid wasp]

Imagine the Kung Fu Dugongs appearing in the Final War

[pure raven]

not roger maybe joyboy

[modest skiff]

Well written and good theory.

1. I disagree that BM's kingdom is a bad one. People essentially live in an idealized form of communism where so long as they give up a bit, they receive all they could ever need, with complete protection. Consider how the poor people on Sabo's island lived. Think about Law's upbringing. The poor people in the WG live terrible lives and people who work 40 hours a week are giving up about 25% of their life. No one has to work for all their needs to be met in BM's kingdom. Its not a terrible deal. Consider how easy it was for Arlong to pay off a few marines to slaughter and enslave an island. No such issue in BM's turf. I would choose to live in BM's territory rather than WG.

2. I agree that O-lin and the bad side of BM coincide. After reading this, part of me wonders if this is related to her eating Carmel.

3. Where do we learn Kaido is 2/3 Oni?

4. We have 1 fruit who had the name changed and we are given a good explanation. I don't think we should apply "any fruit can change" as logic to any situation.

5. I think it is possible that the devil fruit was a failure because the user would be able to turn into a dragon from the beginning. If the will of a zoan devil fruit essentially locks away the full power prior to awakening, it is possible that you could clone Kaido's durability (The WG was studying King for his durability, I think so that they could go to the sun) but you don't want the user to be as dangerous as an azure dragon. Momo carved straight through Onigashima just by growing up. He is clearly insanely powerful just from growing up. Kaido's awakened fruit is perhaps one of the strongest just by default with zero mastery. Might be bad to let soldiers have that kind of power.

6. My other theory (my Kuma/VP working together theory) is that VP is a Rev Army mole and completing the SSG is the reason the Revs moved on Marie Jois when they did, since it wasn't actually on the WG's side. I think its possible VP lied about the fruit, but I also think it could be said to be a failure and hidden away if it was too strong.

7. Overall great theory but the part that doesn't make sense to me is how the fruit helped Kaido escape during god valley. I can understand an Azure dragon being able to escape by flying away, but I can't imagine how a karp that can't swim could get away.

8. I think the historical context and mythological context is very good and clearly a big part of Kaido's story. I just wonder how much of it directly translates rather than bits and pieces.

[ashen surge]

Thanks!

1. I don't think BM's kingdom is a bad one "per se". It's true that for a common persons day to day life it doesn't really matter if they live under WG or a Big Mom but my issue with those is that neithers foundations exist to serve the common people.

2. Yeah I just read the wiki and trusted it, but the 2/3 doesn't really matter

3. While having these discussions about Kaido possibly already awakening I just got really sick of the argument that this is completely impossible because of the "devil fruit naming conventions" aka "The rules of the in world universe are like this and everything has to operate under these rules"

4. I didn't say that the fruit had any part in helping Kaido escape God Valley, he just got the fruit then/sometime after it?

[modest skiff]

Makes sense. And if the Nika only turns you into Nika when awakened, I’d say it’s totally reasonable for the dragon fruit to do the same

[ashen surge]

And people completely miss the part that it would be fucking hilarious, very odasque and would make a great backstory for Kaido

I'm starting to think that VP is kinda very agnostic regarding the political sides and he just operates in an environment where he's allowed to pursue whatever scientific impulses he has as long as he also delivers what is expected from him.

[forest venture]

Excellent theory. So you think the fruit starts out as a fish and awakens into the dragon just like the classical and famous Japanese story of the fish turning into a dragon? This is my new headcanon

[ashen surge]

The tale is originally chinese but yes

[forest venture]

My bad. Im surprised this has never been mention before. It seems so obvious

[chrome cave]

Imagine kaido as just a small fish

[forest venture]

Most likely see this in his backstory if it’s true

[chrome cave]

Is that novel kars in your pfp?
(Sorry if it’s not, I’m a jojo fan)

[forest venture]

Berserk character

For all we know, leaning off that theory.. it could be possible that a lot of Zoans awaken into Mythical Zoans. (Not all) but a decent amount of ones.

[ashen surge]

And if for some reason Kaido had gils that work underwater that would mean he can't even drown.

[muted ember]

My theory on Momo's df failure is that it was a smile, and Momo was incredibly lucky. The celestials commissioned Vegapunk to study Kaido bc they want to be literal dragons (their symbol is a dragons claw). Vegapunk had to declare the fruit a failure bc making a celestial into a pleasure would be certain death

[lone tundra]

does anyone here have any opinion or theory about florian triangle gigantic shadow?

[manic niche]

Imagine they learn advanced conquers

[proud hamlet]

but it doesnt make momo laugh uncontrolably... unlike the actual smile fruits

[muted ember]

Neither do smiles when they work

[proud hamlet]

ah now that i think abt it i did make a mistake on my part, forgot that u only laugh when the fruit fails mbmb

still doubt it tho seeing other smile users, the part of him getting lucky is just kinda unbeliavable also

but at the same time the fruit was made by vegapunk that momo ate, the smiles were created by ceasar so kinda contradicts a bit

[pure raven]

i think the WG would just fake his death tbh.

[muted ember]

The celestials are the top of the WG, unless the Gorosei stepped in no one could do that. But then there's the possibility that as celestials, the Gorosei want to be dragons as well

[muted ember]

Ceasar was in Vegapunk's lab, the smiles he made could be inferior applications of Vegapunk's research, just like Franky's laser

[pure raven]

why would the gorosei not step in? thats my point. the gorosei wouldnt allow that to happen

[muted ember]

Bc they want to be dragons too. So imagine a Gorosei eats the fruit and becomes a pleasure. Also the Gorosei might decide he's no longer useful. What do you think would happen if they found out he allowed Kuma to protect the Sunny, for example

[proud hamlet]

plausible, it could be he tried to replicate vegapunk's fruits but maybe realized that its too complex for even him so he made an inferior version as u said

[pure raven]

their primary goal is to keep the WG and the balance of the world and obey IMU. They need vegapunk for that so theyre not killing him for that

[muted ember]

Well even if the dragon fruit is a smile, it's still superior to the other smiles in the sense Momo is not some weird deformed creature

[proud hamlet]

trutru plus the adult version of momo's dragon does indeed look very accurate to kaido's

[muted ember]

Who says they need him for that? The balance is already in the WG favor

[stark monolith]

Theory: Roger is luffys dad.
Because their personalities are so alike, they look very much the same, and they are both really strong. Luffy does not resemble garp and far from dragon who looks totally different. I refuse to back down

[pure raven]

they clearly need vegapunk lol

[muted ember]

I also don't think the Gorosei want balance. They want to maintain a relative balance until they can control everything

[proud hamlet]

i mean they do kinda need vegapunk even if theyre already the dominant force in the world, hes the biggest mastermind which can make a bunch of inventions, just look earlier, the man was making nearly replicated fruits

[pure raven]

and even if they dont need him. Theyre not killing him just cause of a celestial dragon. Hes too beneficial for them

[proud hamlet]

imagine if he studied and experimented more and more and in the future he might even be able to replicate the gomu gomu no mi and such, they definately need him

[muted ember]

They don't need him. They want him to increase their strength but they don't need him

That type of common sense doesn't really apply to the celestials bc they get to do whatever they want. If one of them shot Vegapunk for no reason it would go unpunished

[pure raven]

same way they got luffy to get killed? lol

vegapunk is too important and they def need him. He was the one who created the SSG. Without him theyre gonna crumble to the pirates in paticular the yonkos

[golden knot]

unoriginal, also kinda goofy considering how much roger talked about ace, im sure he'd be just as enthusiatic if he had a second son. I'd say luffys goofy ass smile resembles garps. Garp is literally like an older luffy with a stronger moral compass, but hes still an idiot, just like luffy.

[proud hamlet]

losing vegapunk is like losing mihawk when they decided to abolish the warlord system, they would be losing the biggest genius on earth, didnt they say that vegapunk's mind was advanced by like a couple decades or centuries? they would be losing so much in terms of technology, inventions that could further support the wg goals, ideas and such

[muted ember]

Luffy would have been killed but one of their subordinates just happened to be his dad's best friend

[pure raven]

they couldve killed him some other time. Doesnt look like theyre making any effort

[proud hamlet]

goofy ahh theory

[golden knot]

and i hear it so often

[proud hamlet]

theyre prob beginner theorists and havent watched much one piece theory videos thats why

[muted ember]

By virtue of the fact they got rid of Mihawk, you're acknowledging that they could also find justification to get rid of Vegapunk

[golden knot]

tru

[muted ember]

Besides MF, he was missing. Amazon Lily doesn't allow men, and Ruskaina had no other humans

[pure raven]

FMI PH Dressrosa WCI

[muted ember]

What WG presence was there in FMI?

[proud hamlet]

i mean thats the thing, its not like the marines themselves abolished the system, it was the kings and queen who proposed the idea to the reverie and it got accepted, with further backing, this prob got approved even more if u know what im sayin when they found out what crocodile and doflamingo were doing and abusing their ranks as a warlord, on the other hand, from what we know, vegapunk have done 0 things wrong thus far unless u count his replicating fruits mistake, in the case of mihawk, since hes part of the warlords, if the other warlords did something wrong, he would be coupled together with their mistakes even if he ad 0 part in it and the kings and queens wouldnt even think about removing vegapunk

[muted ember]

Dressrosa Fujitora refused to apprehend him

[golden knot]

i feel like they'd keep him because of his ability to spit out pacifistas, while they might not be viable in the new world, they could keep paradise in a headlock while more specialized, and skilled naval forces tackle the people that are getting close to uncovering some things they want to keep secret. So i wouldn't say they keep vegapunk around for the reason of strength as much as they do to save time and potentially mitigate future issues with science.

[pure raven]

thats hthe point lol

[muted ember]

He let Kuma guard the Sunny, they just dk yet

[proud hamlet]

wrong ping moment...?

[pure raven]

if they actually cared about the CDs request they'd hunt him down until hes dead. But they just put it aside and forgot

[muted ember]

U said he did 0 wrong in the eyes of the government that would definitely count

[proud hamlet]

ah thought u pinged the wrong dude lmao mb but considering all the things he has done for the wg, i think theyll prob let that one slide when they find out or they might just give him light punishment

[ashen surge]

Dragon could be adopted That's why roger knew garp would take care of ace

[proud hamlet]

nah i doubt it, how could luffy be so like garp then if they arent related by blood

[ashen surge]

ace and luffy were alike as well

[snow fox]

[wet comet]

I miss Ace

[opal grove]

Where Enel return?
He got one of most op fruit

[formal bridge]

My theory is that one piece is a map of the one piece world and it's history. This will help sanji find all blue. Nami will be able to complete her maps without going to other blues too. Robin will know the truth of the world. None of them want treasure anyway so it will complete all their dreams a the Laugh Tale.

[uneven carbon]

I have a theory that Shanks was working with the gov't ever since he joined the Roger pirates, he's the one who poisoned roger
he joined the roger pirates at 9 years old and roger got sick 2 years after

[amber oar]

it's wildly popular for such a complete trash theory

[uneven carbon]

okay
I don't listen to theories so it's the first one I've heard
@muted ember I heard it somewhere

[muted ember]

Do we know he joined at 9?

[amber oar]

We know he was there at 9, when Roger read the newspaper about Oden joining WB.

[vital birch]

i bet shanks was born on god valley and is rocks/celestial dragons kid

[amber oar]

But also, Shanks being there at 9 doesn't mean he joined exactly at 9. He may as well have been there since birth. Though it doesn't quite fit with the "growing in West Blue" mention in his meeting with WB.

Anyway, this page should kill any notion of evil Shanks.

[muted ember]

I think either Shanks or Buggy were on the ship basically their whole life bc Roger said he hadn't spent time with a baby in a long time and Rayleigh said its like back in the day

[raw cape]

I don't think it kills the notion of antagonist Shanks, but he's definitely not evil. I'm definitely still on board with the Davy Back Fight direction for the Road Poneglyphs.

[amber oar]

I haven't referred to antagonist Shanks, just addressed the specific (and stupid) notion that he's evil and he's been conspiring and well all that stuff (the poisoning Roger part is specially dumb). Shanks is definitely set to face Luffy at some point, as Luffy has to beat all the Emperors. I think he either:

Tests Luffy to see if he's worthy of the PK role
Enters in conflict with Luffy because of Barto's show in his territory (cover story)

[slender fulcrum]

I still think the Devil's fruit are the AK library that can only be read through ADN stuff

[zealous grail]

What's this cover story. I don't remember it

[zealous grail]

Ahhh. I can't believe I forgot that. Rather no I can totally believe I forgot that because it's been so long

[dense carbon]

I think thats going to come into play later somehow.

[analog lance]

I have a theory, what would happen if Luffy ate one of Choppers rumble balls now? Since he now also has a human-human fruit and that. Would he gain even more power or just nothing happen?

[little kelp]

reading this and what do you mean that Hitetsukiyaki is Oden’s father?? Is that like a famous theory in the community or something? I never heard of that one before

[weak arrow]

Yes. They're the same age and voice actor, but even before that it was pretty popular.

#manga-theories message Here's juba's take regarding it

[little kelp]

Interesting, I’ll check it out after finishing reading your theory

[noble fractal]

It'd probably work on him, hell altering your DF form with drugs works on other Zoans as well

[ember axle]

probably wont work since its a different model and each have a different "wavelength"

[analog lance]

I dont think Oda would ever make that happen either tho right

[solemn eagle]

judging by luffy's awakening

Buggy’s awakened fruit would let him cut and destroy metaphysical things like the barriers between dimensions, he could cut atoms, he could cut the 4th wall etc. If buggy were to awaken the bara bara nomi he would become unstoppable
(now this is a joke but oda does love buggy i can see this happening)

[green dawn]

Buggy D. Clown when

[solemn eagle]

when he awakens his fruit the hito hito no mi Model: Grim reaper

[little kelp]

Ok, Your reason of why Momo and Yamato are joining is really good. I already believe Yamato is joining as you know, but you made me think Momo could actually join with the points you made. The someone needs defending argument on why Momo and Yamato should stay never made sense to me either, the world last thing to worry about will be Wano after they get the info on the Strawhats having 3 poneglyphs and defeating a Yonko crew. Also going after the Warlords and whatever happened with the Reverie. Everything made sense to me until you brought up the Kiku part lol. The points you have for Kiku joining are really not strong at all. Like, Kiku cutting the Sumo dude hair cannot be considered foreshadowing in my opinion. Also, everytime a strawhat joins because of a specific role Oda focus on that with specific plot points and moments in the story. The “hairstylist” stuff hasn’t even been remotely explored at all. The thing Kiku did to the sumo guy was a sign of disrespect, nothing else. There hasn’t even been any mention of Kiku being a hairstylist at all in the story. If any scabbard is joining (which I think it’s not happening) I think Kiku is like one of the last options. Izo has finally returned to Wano after like 20 years and already said to Kiku that they’ll have a lot of time to be together after the raid ends. There’s also no reason or desire for Kiku to leave Wano, no dream, no meaningful relationships with the Strawhats (which is a point a lot of people bring up with the case of Yamato) and all the focus of following Oden’s path is already going to Momo and Yamato as how we’ve seen. Momo leaving Wano it’s not something I’m not convinced with yet, but as I said earlier the points you made makes think it could happen. But it all depends on Oda’s execution. The Yamato and Momo interactions I see it just as work for Momo’s character development. Just like Luffy’s and Momo’s interactions.

[willow plaza]

My likely candidates are Marco, to teach luffy how to use a mythical zoan and Yamato because she has to follow Oden's footsteps and see the world for herself. Momo will be required in Wano to be the New Dragon Guardian Deity along with his sister ruling the capital.
Considering roles, Marco could fit in as secondary doctor and luffy's new mentor, Yamato would obviously be the journalist.
Both of them no longer would have any family to stay with post Wano. Even if kaido survived and realised luffy is JoyBoy, he would let Yamato go with him, begrudgingly so.
The scabbards might be the new Daimyos, including Kiku, with Kinemon being the lead advisor to ~Kozuki~ Momo no Suke.

With that been said, Brook is the only hairstylist we need because afros. That also been said, Oda said once if Sanji wasn't a chef or a pirate, he'd be a hairdresser.

Thank you for your patience while reading this

[amber oar]

I just saw this. I thought this was a meme free zone

[weak arrow]

Not a meme

[amber oar]

but now seriously,

[weak arrow]

yes that's in the post, although without the illustration

[zenith drum]

What do you guys think about the theory that the one piece is reuniting the world in a banquet ? Not gonna developp here cuz im lazzy but I think its fairly good

[willow plaza]

Biggest party in the world theory. Its pretty common

[dense carbon]

common but sounds horrible

[tacit veldt]

Still waiting for that heartwarming picture of mommy Robin styling everyone's hair

[lunar shell]

Oops yes

[granite yew]

Y'all think Big Mom is gonna reappear in Elbaf? (prolly next arc)

[tawny cairn]

Usopp the GoD

[inner swift]

I pray not. I’m tired of Linlin.

She was fine in WCI but by the time she got her shit rocked by Kid and Law, I was fed up with her. Although to answer your question, it’s a 60% chance I’d say for her appearing as a major part of a possible Elbaf arc

Also, quick separate question, does anyone think that Blackbeard is gonna lose a titanic captain before whatever arc that he and the straw hats eventually face off in?

I’d guess Avalo, Doc Q, or Vasco Shot, simply cause it feels as though they have the least importance out of the entirety of the crew

The rest feel slightly more important though, but I think that one of them might go as for extra motivation for the BB pirates to try going after the straw hats, especially for someone like Jesus or Teach himself.

[round crater]

Nah, 100% she’s the main baddie of elbaf. It’s not gonna be some random new guy we’ve barely heard about, who’s somehow strong enough to fight gear 5, it’s gonna be big mom.

[inner swift]

Here me out, I have a theory about Elbaf

Luffy might be out of the picture for part of the arc, perhaps the whole thing, because he’ll be so tired from defeating Kaido and using gear 5th for the first time, so it’ll be down to other straw hats, particularly Ussop as Elbaf has always had a relationship to his character for a number of reasons.

[round crater]

Oh 100% usopps gonna David and Goliath a giant on elbaf. But I still think big mom will be there

[inner swift]

I’m super hyped for an Elbaf arc just to see Ussop be a bad ass

[round crater]

He gonna skip armament and go straight to conquerers coating. He’s lied about having it enough times, he can do it.

[inner swift]

And I am placing a 50 quid bet that Ussop will have a story beat where he wants to stay on Elbaf. (And Conquerors Ussop almost seems obvious, if anything he deserves it)

[round crater]

Montblanc “god” usopp.

[inner swift]

The one thing I’d want to see if the Charlottes come back though is Luffy V Katakuri 2.

That would be one of the best rematches in the series.

[lapis prairie]

Usopp doesn't deserve conquerors. He has no desires for greatness. His greatest want is to be impressive

[grizzled ibex]

I’d say ussop would unlock future sight as for advance armament I don’t think so maybe an upgrade in plant species available too him

[round crater]

Luffys gonna rematch lucci at some point. NO WAIT, usopp said he would back at enies. Usopp v lucci.

[inner swift]

Enel V Luffy also seems like a big possibility and I’m calling it now that Doffy and Law are gonna face off one last time too.

[round crater]

He’s gonna beat him with his pinky finger. Probably cause it’ll be the only finger he can still fire with.

[lapis prairie]

Doffy/Law is interesting. As for Enel, I think his journey would have calmed him down

[inner swift]

I really feel that he’s been training after the Luffy fight, he was humiliated despite having an S-tier DF, and he came from a time when haki didn’t exist, or at least not fully (apparently he and his crew all had observation) but he seems like a prime candidate for a villian who could have Conquerors. (Man straight up thought he was god)

[round crater]

He had observation, but it wasn’t advanced further sight.

[lapis prairie]

He for sure would have conquerors, but his story seemed so peaceful. Maybe all those winged whatevers become an army for him, but that seems so out of place. Every great villain so far has been well established. Enel's return would need great foreshadowing that we haven't seen

[inner swift]

I have plenty of problems with Haki as a power system and how it’s completely ruined One Piece power debates IMO. But older characters who haven’t returned seem like they are strong Haki candidates

Enel is a prime example.

[inner swift]

There’s been theories that he’s been hinted at multiple times, most of them debunked but isn’t there a silhouette of a character in Wano that pretty much has the omega lobes?

[lapis prairie]

I think that was --forget her name-- oden's daughter, the one fighting Orochi rn. Check it out, it's pretty clear

[inner swift]

Hiyori? I dunno, I don’t think it matches.

Also, I’m sure that there would have been no reason to Silhouette Hiyori, I’m sure Oda particularly only silhouettes characters if he wants to hide who they are.

[lapis prairie]

That was the image. She wasn't supposed to be on the island

[inner swift]

That’s the lobes of doom man I’m telling ya

[lapis prairie]

The scabbards knew who she was. They were grateful and surprised to see her. She wasn't supposed to be on the island. This was a way to set up that she came so it wasn't out of nowhere. Something necessary for this current fight to happen

[inner swift]

Also the goro goro no mi is without doubt my favourite Logia in the series, and logias are my favourite type of DF, so I’m really desperate to see more of its almost unlimited potential.

[lapis prairie]

You shouldn't let that dictate your theories. There's a good chance he's part of the series in the future, because he's uncovered something hidden, but as for Wano, I don't know

[inner swift]

TBH it probably leads to a bit of bias on my part, but there is still certainly a lot of potential for him to return.

[lapis prairie]

The 'lobes/hair' does for sure widen at the bottom, something weird to show

[inner swift]

https://tenor.com/view/mandem-enel-one-piece-shock-gif-23282505

Oda doesn’t leave a lot to be forgotten, details are usually important. That’s why so many characters end up coming back. (Side note, the clip of Enel being shocked was the entire reason I started watching one piece, it was genuinely bewildering to me)

[little kelp]

are you not going to read my answer

[inner swift]

Other other thing: is it likely at all that we will never see Luffy’s mother? From my POV, I don’t think we’ll ever know, but it probably isn’t really too important (Oda said he didn’t want to explore that part of Luffy’s family if I remember correctly)

[weak arrow]

I read it. I just have no need to respond to it.

[little kelp]

[weak arrow]

Nothing further I say would convince you, thus I don’t see the point.

[muted ember]

Has anybody given any thought to Big Mom saying a part of the one piece is in Wano?

[little kelp]

I understand, that's valid

[inner swift]

I’m not sure there’s a lot of credibility to what Linlin said

Mostly because the “one piece” seems to be such a strange thing, we have no idea what it is, or if it’s in separate parts.

[formal bridge]

What about Loki

[muted ember]

Loki is a good guy I'm calling it now

[formal bridge]

He wanted to be friendly with one of worst yonkos is that good for you . Even though she killed one of the giants when she was kid and destroyed their festival. Also loki is 5 year younger than big mom 🤮.

[muted ember]

What happened when she was a kid was an accident and he probably understands that. And being in a political marriage doesn't necessarily means he would be friends w Big Mom. Judge wasn't, and the captain of the sun Pirates is married to one of her daughters. It just means he loved Lola.

[formal bridge]

Why do you think lola ran away if he was such a 'good guy'. There must be something about him .

[muted ember]

That's not how marriage works u have to actually like the person. U can meet a lot of good ppl and u wouldn't necessarily want to marry all of them

[late pier]

I thought she ran away because she wanted to marry for love and not because her Mother wanted more power. Her running isn't necessarily related to how good or bad Loki is.

But maybe that was more the anime than manga, honestly been a while back and don't remember exactly lol

[formal bridge]

It's said that loki proposed to her and liked her . When big mom tried to replace her with chiffon loki rejected the marriage.

[late pier]

That means that Loki liked her, but it doesn't mean that she liked Loki.

[exotic blade]

Oh no

[pliant blaze]

black beard stealing kaidos devil fruit

[chilly roost]

Noooo

[woven moth]

Not another 100 chapters of Fighting giant Chinese dragons pls.

[open bronze]

I don't that will happen
'Cause BB always do the things that we don't think he will do

[pure raven]

Is there no spoilers this week?

[chilly roost]

Not another two years 😭 😭

[pallid kite]

Golden week in Japan

[covert quarry]

Spoilers start getting posted on this following Monday I think

[strong ibex]

When did he say that? That just doesn’t feel right. I had a theory that the WG hunted all woman and babies with the D in their name. Just pretty much committed genocide, and that’s part of the void century

[sand robin]

like yamato mother ?

[hushed hollow]

Lots of people said the one piece might be under or somewhere in enies lobby

Sunny last trip was to enies lobby and people say that sunny was leading them to onepiece

[rapid oar]

going merry*

[hushed hollow]

Yeah

[limpid mesa]

Yeah

[runic osprey]

Yeah

[amber oar]

!denieslobby

[lone hedge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/833428729266438194/872498220708819035/Screenshot_20210804-171555.jpg

[agile tangle]

What if whenever Luffy makes his heart beat again it chips off his lifespan?

[gritty crypt]

so you know how people think blackbeard is going to get a mythical zoan fruit next? what if he goes after luffys and thats the big luffy vs bb fight we're waiting for

[tacit umbra]

im confused on this panel, what does this panel say????

[lapis prairie]

I don't know it's cut off. This is the silhouette we see of hitori as she helped the scabbards after Law sent them below

[maiden lynx]

Gotta say, I love the idea of Luffy’s next bounty bring “Only Dead”

[sand robin]

Blackbeard already eat mystical zoan model cerberus which make him have 3 body and can eat 3 df

[gritty crypt]

when?

[amber oar]

An "only dead" bounty makes zero sense. What happens if a bounty hunter somehow shows up with Luffy captured and alive, will the navy tell them "nononono go kill him and come back later"?

[sharp cosmos]

Doffy would be a great guitar player

[amber oar]

that's just a theory, and a pretty flawed one.

Marco speculated that BB's ability to hold multiple DFs was due to his "weird body". If it was due to a DF, Marco would have addressed it, "maybe it's because of the cerberus zoan". If Teach had a Cerberus zoan and Marco didn't know, Marco wouldn't have a clue of why Teach can have multiple DFs.

To add to it - Teach's crewmates were unsure whether the "thing" they did with WB would work. Which means it was the first time Teach tried this. If Teach had both the Cerberus and the Yami Yami beforehand, he would have showed or at least explained his powers to his crewmates and they would have known he can handle not only two, but three devil fruits. Their uncertainty basically confirms he had only the yami yami before the "trick".

[maiden lynx]

Perhaps just the word dead then

[ornate perch]

Fr ur right lmao

[charred drift]

Unsure if it counts as a manga theory but how do y’all reckon a Golem Zoan would work if introduced? Like would it be a mythical or even ancient Zoan type of Giant Devil fruit.

Since we have multiple Human Zoans, only makes sense that there could be Giant type Zoan devil fruits (I’m just bored, like to think about possible Zoan devil fruits since it’s my favourite DF type)

[tawdry willow]

Or Excommunicado, Lol

[lone tundra]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-O5qtW7cao

does anyone have comments on this theory? showing that xebec might be frozen in impel down and preserved for the future?

[timber onyx]

I guess a hito hito model giant would just turn you into a giant?

[charred drift]

I’d hope that Giants have their own category.

Giant Giant Fruit turns the user into just a regular Giant

[sand robin]

One Piece location is on Island and already found by somenone initial G, luffy already close to find One Piece but he just wanna be Pirate King

[jovial olive]

Does anyone know when next scan in our

[zenith badge]

I think BB have 3 personality like moonknight and he find Zoan fruit for his last devil fruit.

[swift panther]

Yami yami in his right. Gura gura in his left. Where his zoan tho 🥶

[swift panther]

Giants aren't humans?

[zenith badge]

Think :he want to transform like a Giant and next Arc is Elabf. Luffy's Gear 5 vs BB's 3 devil fruit The greatest battle than Kadio?

[warm edge]

Well, even if it was there, doubt anyone will know exceot sengoku and a couple more hugher ups

[grim pine]

what if the final scene will be like this..and brook will sing..bink's sake..for the last time in the series..then the camera will face towards the sky..fading away..and "THE END"

[plucky kiln]

Who is eye patch character

[harsh niche]

sucks to be brook

[inner swift]

I think it’d be 8x better if instead of a chefs hat they just stuck Sanji’s leg out the grave.

[pure raven]

Brook will store luffys hat in a fridge like EMU 🙂

[grim pine]

lmfaoo

[inner swift]

Then the hat travels back in time and becomes big, and that’s the big hat explained. BAM.

[eager frost]

existence of a bird in Alabasta debunks this theory.

[grim pine]

What? Which?

[eager frost]

Pell, the nuke blast survivor.

[grave pike]

so 5 days for next chapter?

[grim pine]

This is shit

[inner swift]

It was a joke theory, I honestly have no idea what the big hat could really be.

[grave pike]

luffy converts hat to rubber
lol

[inner swift]

Maybe, here me out right, what if the big hat was the friends we made along the way?

[eager frost]

probably belonged to someone important in the past and now its a trophy.

[inner swift]

It’ll end up being like Joyboy’s hat or something. Or maybe it was for Zunesha when it was small.

My only other guess as to the hats origins is that all 5 gorosei have to wear it at once because it’s so big

[icy sapphire]

yami yami is the zoan

[warm edge]

i will cry nd start the rewatch after realizing everything that has happened in these past 23 years

[warm edge]

we know nothing about it, except when he shows up it marks the end of the series is really close

[grim pine]

@nova glacier idhr theories padh

[rich patrol]

There you go fam, https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Kairo_Kureyo

[lone tundra]

Thanks a lot, appreciate that 😁

[grim pine]

nope..it was not xebec..
it is someone else..Oda mentioned it in some fanbook
Kairo Kureyo is the name of the prisoner

[weak ridge]

Guys if joyboy becomes luffy does that make luffy like dead because joyboy is in luffys body until joyboy is out luffys body he is able to do stuff as luffy again

[copper frost]

its still luffy

this confirms that it is not possession at all and is still luffy himself and his awakening

[pure raven]

I’ve been convinced that crocodile might be a woman and could possibly be luffy’s mom (if you want more context just search up ohara on youtube)

[raw spear]

i have been convinced the earth is flat 😀

[weak ridge]

I agree with this

[pure raven]

Thank you and there is actually a lot of evidence behind it like WAY MORE than you think

[weak ridge]

I think so to

[pure raven]

ALSO oda even confirmed that we have seen Luffy’s mom

And he even acted EXTREMELY weird and out of character when he found out luffy’s identity in marineford

[late pier]

hahah Nah the Big Hat, belongs to Joyboy from 800 years ago. I think there is a big connection between the strawhat and the gomu gomu fruit, and that there is a reason that Shanks was given the strawhat by Roger, and also purposefully went out of his way to steal the gomu gomu fruit from the WG because both are tied to Joyboy, and the strawhat is a remnant passed down by those who are meant to keep the gomu gomu fruit out of the hands of the WG, and to ensure its safe keeping until joyboy can return.

[inner swift]

I think the whole problem of the Luffy=Joyboy discussion is we don’t really know what it means to be Joyboy.

For example: in recent history, there has been a few possible candidates for someone who could have possibly became the warrior of liberation. Of note, Fisher Tiger and Oden.

But neither of them were successful in fulfilling that role thanks to their deaths. And Kaido as well seemed to believe that becoming Joyboy was something you had to earn(?), so becoming pirate king was really his goal for that reason.

So if being Joyboy is determined by eating the Nika fruit or just being born as the reincarnation or inherited will through the ages or simply proving your right to the title, is ultimately unknown.

Let’s not forget Joyboy Luffy is still fighting Kaido, so until that’s all done with and we just get Luffy on his own, we can’t really tell what’s happened in regards to him being Joyboy

[edgy vessel]

It could just be that the gomu gomu no fruit allows you to dodge death, thus you don't end up failing like fisher tiger or oden.

Maybe joyboy is the successful liberator lol

[inner swift]

Fair assessment, but I’d say it’s also to do with how they died. Oden died smiling (joy), but Tiger died crying (not joy)

[inner swift]

Luffy has really just been liberating since the start though, Coby, Zoro, the people of orange town and Arlong park, so I’d say he’s been successful from literally Romance Dawn.

[edgy vessel]

I think the other crucial connection to the historical joyboy is Shirahoshi

[inner swift]

And that’s without talking about Alabasta, Skypeia, Dressrosa, the shadows that Moria stole, Ace (for all of 5 seconds), Sanji, there a lot.

[late pier]

I think in order to become joyboy you have to be a liberator and have a spirit that is free and happy.

[dull flame]

what u guys think Caribou eyes? isn't it the same in Mihawk, Luffy (gear 5), Imu, etc. I was wondering this past months. Also the incident of Caribou watching the fights in Onigashima

[edgy vessel]

But otherwise, there isn't much in common with Joyboy other than being a freedom fighter and having the fruit that gives you his original abilities

[inner swift]

That would make sense too, like if said, Oden died smiling and he was a pretty ok liberator, whereas Tiger died crying, but staged one of the most successful liberations in history.

[late pier]

I mean TBF, to be joyboy you also need to eat the gomu gomu which neither of them did as far as we know.

Though do we know enough about Tiger to know if he ate a DF lol (i'd assume even if he did it wouldn't be gomu gomu)?

[inner swift]

I doubt we’ll see more of Tiger at all though, so really that’s a question I don’t think will get answered. And it’s definitely not the Gomu Gomu. I think it’s highly likely that it was brought from the void century along with Toki.

[edgy vessel]

There is a difference between tiger oden and luffy. They both strived to liberate their own countries, luffy saves countries because of the friends he makes in those countries. He has no other relation with the islands

[inner swift]

I think Nolan was also a candidate for Joyboy as well, as he liberated other places, however his liberations weren’t permanent either.

[edgy vessel]

Joyboy himself wasn't successful either from the things we currently know though

[inner swift]

And in terms of success, it doesn’t seem like Luffy’s liberations have fallen through (yet), although I think something may happen to Alabasta

[inner swift]

For all we know, Joyboy could have been successful for years, but after his death, WG fucked it all up.

[edgy vessel]

I think joyboy's failure opened a window for a WG to be founded

[inner swift]

Seems likely, my theory is that Imu was in some way responsible, although they weren’t any of the “kings” that founded the WG. Perhaps they were an advisor, or simply orchestrated it’s formation

[edgy vessel]

But luffy is the official Fishman Island guarantor, so that could be the part that was missing for Joyboy v1

[inner swift]

I think the theory that Luffy destroys that part of the redline and Fishman island by proxy is probably the most likely outcome

[edgy vessel]

So Imu is immortal? What moral message would Oda want to pass when an immortal agent is the root of all calamities?

[inner swift]

“The moral of the story is, Evil ancient demons that are controlling our leaders from the shadows are to blame”-Oda in 5 years

[edgy vessel]

It could be a symbolism for unquestioned tradition I guess, an authority in the shadows of sorts

[inner swift]

I dunno, the problem with OP theories is that a theory is either based on a likely string of facts we’ve been presented since chapter 1, or something that we know almost nothing about and we desperately try to make connections based on random things that would only match up if you looked at them upside down with only your left eye and 8 pints of beer down your throat

Just take Teach and Xebecs relationship. Why is his ship named after him? Does he like Ace have both his parents being a “D”? With his mother being Marshall D. ____?

Random strings of fact. Teach could just be a fanboy.

[edgy vessel]

I agree, so I tend to find a moral message or a social issue being commented upon in every arc, hoping to find a pattern. It's dictatorships/civil war, slavery, misinformation, environmental destruction, foreign occupation, genocide etc. So It feels like everything horrible humanity has ever done eventually gets tackled. What could Imu be?? Global capitalism or some sht?

[valid grove]

Found a theory

[inner swift]

My guess is actually a Facism commentary. Like with Nazi Germany and deciding which bloodlines are better or not

[copper frost]

that was already done with germa

[edgy vessel]

If it turns out that Monkey D. Dragon is a Trotskyist hoping for international communism I will feel empty inside for a long time.

[copper frost]

the references are quite on the nose with what iconography and philosophy germa operates on, literally the same imagery as the nazis

[inner swift]

Dragon is an anagram for Karl Marx

[edgy vessel]

Gon RAD

[inner swift]

Probably not just a Nazi Germany parallel and more of just a general facism one, with how the Marines and WG organise stuff and take control.

[inner swift]

Put it through Google translate a few times…then we’ll see…. (Also by that proxy what does Dragon plan to do once the celestials and the WG are gone?)

[valid grove]

In the anime we see one of big mom's "family members" put luffy and nami inside a book using his DF. As he closed the book there was info on both nami and luffy in the pages, 5 billion was written near luffy's name ( Dm me so I can send a pic ) PS: not really my discovery found it on social media.

[copper frost]

Well, the world Government is a plutocracy that operates on the principle of having the richest of the rich which is the celestial dragon bloodline rule the world, with Imu presumably being related to them. It rules on the protection for tribute model and is quite steeped in making a point as to coercing nations to surrender to them, or face the consequences of being faced with danger on all fronts

[nimble fox]

Hello. I don't think Luffy will defeat Kaido in 1048 simply because he just finally unlocked this ultimate (I assume) form and won't find an enemy so strong as kaido to need to use it on again for a while so Oda will likely have it go on a bit longer to give us an even better idea on it. Also, I don't think kaido should get absolutely stomped by gear 5, or that'd make it too godly and there'd be no true resistance against Luffy from anyone (except some mysterious world government entities or multiple admirals/top tier pirates at once..?)

[valid grove]

Maybe a forshadowing on his future bounty?

[copper frost]

Maybe check the manga panel as well, i don't think what the anime is doing here counts as foreshadowing to anything and may just be a reference

[inner swift]

My guess is gonna be that is the damaged he done and it’s costs to Linlin.

[valid grove]

Damage? He was first captured and then did the damage on totto land. Can you state some damages he made during the arrival at WCI?

[inner swift]

I doubt that he won’t be Kaido. Too much build up to just not kick the shit out of him, and also I’m sure that you are right in saying G5 is Luffy’s top. I think he called it his “peak”?

[inner swift]

Not just through property damage I mean, think about the fact that Linlin was going to kill the Vinsmokes and then likely take over Germa and the value that could have had. It’s a full kingdom which is likely worth a shit ton.

[valid grove]

If it was the damages then why was Nami's bounty in her descriptions? ( I'll send a pic )

[nimble fox]

In sure he'll beat him, I just don't think it'll be next chapter and without more fight. I feel like kaido is still holding something back.

[inner swift]

The latest I’d guess could be 1050. But I doubt Kaido has much left up his (nonexistent) sleeve

[stone garnet]

Imu probably is linked with religion, since all seems to be connected to this subject (the mention of gods, the names of the attacks, even the ancient weapons named uranus/neptune/pluto)

Like a father, a supreme god of some sort. Someone strict and distant. Eternal.
Joy Boy is the child ("boy"), embodying life, living the moment, the emotions, connecting

The manga is criticizing all the horrors made by humankind, but is also questionning the sense and purpose of life. On one hand we have a strict, rigid, powerful organisation. On the other hand we have a free, joyful spirit

[inner swift]

My guess is a parallel with Yaldabaoth and Sataneal if you take that angle

There’s an extra part of the bible, that isn’t considered canon to almost all Christian branches, by seeing as Oda takes from myths and religions no matter their popularity it opens potential

[stone garnet]

Sure !
He's absolutely taking from every religion. Buddhism, Induism, etc. And MiHawk is Christianism.
He's just questionning the purpose of life in general

[inner swift]

Essentially, one of the outer gods created Yaldabaoth (the demiurge) who was an evil and malevolent force that desired to control the world.

Sataneal was the liberator and true creator, who opposed The Demiurge and gave the humans free will.

So Imu is a Demiurge, and Joyboy could represent Sataneal.

For context this book was written a while after the rest had dropped back in 32-100CE

[stone garnet]

Well, we can make the parrallel between Ialdabaôth and Chronos for exemple. And joy boy is... Zeus maybe ? the child liberating the world a playing with lightning

[inner swift]

So some considered it Heretical. And often is disregarded and generally forgotten about by most, though some recent media mentions it (Persona 5, and a brief mention from a crazy cultist lady in AC Valhalla)

[inner swift]

My only problem with that is that Zeus and Uranus both exist in OP and have a degree of significance to the plot, so I doubt that’s the correct parallel, but not a bad one to draw.

[stone garnet]

No I mean in real world greek cosmogony

[inner swift]

Oda tends not to do a double up on a lot of stuff though. So if there is a character called Zeus, then there likely isn’t a character who is a parallel of Zeus too.

So like I said, good parallel, but knowing Oda, it’ll be something different. (Probably to do with Christianity though, I’m calling it right now)

[late pier]

There is a cloud called Zeus, and then there was a character that was called God, that had the power of lightning and ruled the skies.

He already made two references to Zeus.

[stone garnet]

of course he would change the names. names are't important. In the manga zeus is only a cloud, I mean... names really are not important.
By Zeus i Mean the greek god, child of Saturn / Chronos, liberating the world

[inner swift]

Enel did not come to mind (despite being one of my favourite characters) although there’s no way he’d do 3 Zeus parallels….right?

[placid hollow]

My biggest theory, not related to your current discussion.
Kureha said the cure all had relationship with the land of pink petals... wano has pink petals...
Chopper will need to create the cure all to save Zoro...
Wano will extend until that happens, and we will have fulfilled Luffy not leaving until everyone has something to eat.

[inner swift]

Knowing the pattern of the post-arc sagas, it’ll be another maybe 10-20 chapters max, with the last being when either Yamato, Momo, or Carrot joins the crew (my moneys on Yamato though)

[placid hollow]

I also think if someone's going to join now, it would be Yamato... specially after the anime chapter of last week

[inner swift]

Oh yeah, Yamato has had more build up in being a crew mate than a few other actual straw hats (specifically Nami pre-arlong park and Franky)

[late pier]

Already exists. Enel. God of lightning, and ruler of the skies.

And btw he didn't liberate the world, just some giants, cyclops, and his siblings.

[iron lion]

that was done in Fishman Island. Hody Jones was a pretty obvious analogue to fascism

[inner swift]

One of whom he went on to marry! (And then cheat on multiple times)

[inner swift]

Sorry dude I hate to do this but the word I think you meant to use is Analogy

[late pier]

Sorry dude I hate to do this but the word he used is correct.

analogue

1. Relating to or using signals or information represented by a continuously variable physical quantity such as spatial position, voltage, etc.
   "analog signals"

2. A person or** thing seen as comparable to another.**

[inner swift]

Wait, I though Analogue meant as in like an analogue clock and a digital clock

Or am I thinking of analog

[late pier]

A word can mean more than one thing.

[stone garnet]

Man I shouldn't make the parrallel with Zeus / Chronos. You guys are fixating on the names and details instead of seeing the symbolism lol.
We were just saying that this mythology exist in almost any religion, in any country : an oppresive and almighty force/being has tremendous power, is eternal, and rigid... and by opposition, a child full of life, most of the time who is mortal (by opposition of immortality of the father) comes and saves the day.

It's a common theory in theology. And my bet was that Imu the king is this almighty father ruling since 800+ years (or an avatar of this almighty father) and that joyboy is the figure that contest this power in a repetitive cycle

[inner swift]

I’m not even saying its a bad parallel, but knowing Oda, I doubt that’s the one he’s using, it just fits incredibly well.

[late pier]

If it can be found in any religion then why would it be considered a parallel with Zeus lol

Seems like you are trying to find anyway to continue to justify your idea while trying to ignore anything that might take away from it rather then acknowledge it might be wrong or could have holes. lol

[iron lion]

If Joyboy is the one who challenges the King Imu in every era, he may not even need to belong to the clan of D in order to classify as an enemy of the gods

[inner swift]

Also @iron lion I apologise for my attempted spelling correction my dude.

[late pier]

Perhaps Luffy being in the clan of D, and JoyBoy makes him more of a problem.

[iron lion]

no harm done I was gonna FujiKEK you anyways.

[inner swift]

Fair point, I think D means enemies of the celestials, but not Imu directly.

[late pier]

FujiKEK ?

@inner swift I think he just cursed you out 😉

[inner swift]

I’m fucked now

[stone garnet]

Yeah, no doubt that Oda will make this theology his own, and create something new.
You already are mentioning nice points : the D for exemple.
And we also need to remember the prophecy from the big fish in the sea who said "2 sovereign will meet again"... they probably are a ruler from the sea and one from the earth, I guess. SO they probably will be more than 1 liberator. JoyBoy/Luffy will join with someone else (probably fish princess)

[late pier]

I always thought 2 sovereign will meet again, meant that Momo and Luffy will meet again when its time for the final battle. Momo will stay behind and get Wano in shape, and then when its time join Luffy in a final battle sometime down the line.

[inner swift]

My guess is that the “sea” ruler is actually gonna be Luffy’s drawing of fish Nami

[iron lion]

Anyway here's a good thread on what Opening Wano's Borders actually means and how that plays into the Dawn of the World

https://twitter.com/380kmh/status/1468267978114404352

The most common take I see on this is that it's about immigration, which on its face misses the historical reference about sakoku in Japan--"opening the country" just means people can freely leave and return without becoming criminals!


Perry's visit opened the country--and while this got off to a rocky start, it culminated in the Meiji restoration and the overnight modernization of Japan into a first-class world power.

But personally I think this is only a footnote in what Oda is doing with Wano...


...I think, more importantly, that Wano--as an analogue for Japan--is much more about the "Dawn of the World" theme. The "Land of the Rising Sun," indeed!


The various oppressed races in the world of One Piece all look forward to the Dawn of the World, where they can all live under the same sun--when the world will be "turned upside down." Wano has a major role to play in this, Momonosuke in particular.

Japan's involvement in the world wars had all kinds of sordid motivations, but a common propaganda/official narrative point of theirs was that they were fighting for the equality of all races and the end of European world domination.

Which isn't to say that Oda is secretly an ultra-nationalist or militant--on the contrary, he is outspoken about his desire for world peace and doesn't have a high opinion of war. But he is also obviously a ROMANTIC and an idealist...

Alex "Blooming" Forrest 🚉🌸 (@380kmh)

I've said before that people frequently misread the politics of One Piece--not that I'm entirely sure where Oda is going with it, only that there's more depth than a superficial read would suggest. Case in point: "Open Wano's Borders"

Twitter · Dec 7, 2021, 5:15 PM

[stone garnet]

Well, shiraoshi is ... poseidon... the brother of zeus.... but you don't want to hear my zeus theory lol

[eternal lily]

Tell @stone garnet all theory are interesting

[stone garnet]

I meant it ironically, we already discussed my ideas enough

[inner swift]

The only thing is that The ancient weapons are named after the greco-Roman gods, but Poseidon and Neptune are literally the same god, just renamed

[stone garnet]

Well one is Roman and the other one greek but yeah

I just really wished they did not make another hero inspired by Son Wu Kong... but I guess it's too late lol

[inner swift]

If there is ever a One piece Shippuden, I guarantee that will be Luffy’s child.

I’d much rather it gets called “2 piece”

Though my true dream one piece sequel would just be “the adventures of Duval”

[late pier]

2 piece should be an anciently old Duval telling tales about the greatest pirate era!

[inner swift]

The twist ending would be that it was Yonji in disguise the whole time

[knotty turtle]

so I was thinking abt skypeians and I was wondering if their antennae had anything to do with a lot of them having enhanced hearing + their “mantra” situation

[timber onyx]

Crocodile will sacrifice himself for luffy

[dapper wing]

if brook lost his afro would laboon still remember him?

[velvet wasp]

I saw that before Reverie, Oda revealed that he would reveal the Straw Hat’s strongest adversary yet. And pretty much we learned about Imu. But he also mentioned this adversary has a connection to Whitebeard- is Imu connected to Rocks at all?

[velvet wasp]

I didn’t think about that! It would make sense, though. Mantra was enhanced by Enel’s Goro Goro no Mi due to the electric fields allowing him to broaden his haki range. Part of me is thinking that the antennae are like a reference to the alien cultures from Fairy Vearth, however.

[wicked cairn]

repost from reddit, comment on theory of what kidd took from big mom, thought it was decent. https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/ud8dvt/comment/i6iglt2/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Similar to Shimon's theory, but also hints that Kidd was at Totto land a whole year before timeskip.

[dusky ledge]

being sake lyrics

[lofty ether]

soge king is actually ussop's dad

[dusky ledge]

last line
our funny tevelling tale
laugh tale

[frigid sapphire]

Brooks awakening will be the coldest thing in the show
Get it

[fathom matrix]

It was pointed out that perhaps Luffy is white in gear 5th because rubber comes from pure white tree resin.

So the Resin theory wasn't too wrong.

Plus, the monkey pointing at the resin tree with the crown and the 72 gomu gomu thing could still result in another transformation.

Let's be honest, cause how a lot of shonen manga and written, this isn't gonna be Luffy's final form and he'll get a new one soon

[tribal sky]

Got a simple theory on what word the "D" initial represents. It's meant to be "Destiny". Considering One Piece leans heavily into the themes of destiny and fate.

[severe sentinel]

The "D." initial was spoiled in the first chapter.

[severe sentinel]

Probably another variation of G5.

[west saffron]

Voi D. Century lmao

[tribal sky]

I wouldn't put it past Oda to think like that. But, let's be fair, it's probably not that EXACT word. But a word in another language that means destiny.

[pure raven]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[inner swift]

Just found out that Killer and Kidd are supposed to be Scottish. I’m not sure if I should be happy or offended.

[next furnace]

You know what I keep thinking about? I still wish that the strawhat had the Nika Nika fruit and Luffy just had the gomu gomu. And the combination of effects is what gives Luffy Toon Force.

[worn sigil]

I hope it's the rat rat no mi 🐁🐀

[fathom matrix]

For all know, maybe he lied or he assumed it was a logia.

However, BB could really have a logia and he's gonna go after a zoan type next

[west saffron]

Aight, about BB's 'logia' fruit, Lets lay out some facts about how its different from other logias.

[pure raven]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[fathom matrix]

Tbf, Marco and Luffy's fruits don't alight completely with other zoans, so it's not out of the question BB has a weird logia

[pure raven]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[inner swift]

Made a Reddit post recently about the possible options, narrowed it down to Cerberus, a Kraken, or Erebus (Greek god of darkness) after a while.

[inner swift]

It seems that for every Logia, another exists as an opposite, and BB is no different.

Light-dark
Magma-ice
Fire-snow
Sand-sludge/mud
Gas-smoke

Not too sure about Enel though. What’s the possible option for lightning?

[woeful forge]

I still think that blackbeard's fruit isn't actually the darkness no mi

it doesnt exactly account for the fact he can absorb anything

[inner swift]

I think it’s a high possibility, but I’ve got a theory (well, 2)

1. It’s a Paramecia. It gives him the properties of a black hole and that’s why it can’t prevent him from being burned by Ace.

[woeful forge]

it would make more narrative sense for it also to be a mythical zoan imo

||maybe imu has the "opposing" mythical zoan to nika||

[west saffron]

I think marco's fruit is perfectly normal for mythical zoans. Luffy doesnt have a full zoan and hybrid zoan form, it acts like a paramecia instead of a zoan.
I think what makes a zoan a zoan fruit is purely the fact that it 'has its own will' like the elders said in the fruit name reveal chapter, and therefore they have to come from some kind of creature.
Sengoku's hito hito nomi model budda only has that one form from marineford as far as we've seen, and maybe its like luffies where the only actual form change is the awakening.
Maybe that property of no hybrid or full zoan forms has to do with the fact that he ate the fruit of the creature that he allready is? maybe if a reg human ate choppers fruit, they wouldnt have multiple discrete forms, idk what it would be but i think it would be different than the regular zoan interactions if you are the creature the fruit is trying to transform you into.

[inner swift]

2. It is a logia, but if he were to fully turn his body into darkness, he’d die. I think that all Logias exist in a 3 way power factor, transformation, creation and control.

Darkness would suck to turn into cause technically you would turn into nothingness and therefore stop existing, so therefore it’s transformative capability sucks.

[inner swift]

Oda established that nothing happens when something consumes a devil fruit that gives them there own powers. So if a cheetah ate Lucci’s fruit, nothing would happen, it doesn’t become a cheetah squared or a double cheetah, and the same wouldn’t happen for a human. Oda stated if a human are Choppers fruit, they would just lose the ability to swim. That’s it.

[woeful forge]

good ability

[west saffron]

Ahh, so if your the creature you eat (that sounds wrong), only the auxiliary mythical abilities manifest
so if chopper ate the nika hito hito nomi, he would have the zoan forms alongside being rubber?

[woeful forge]

Although; we don't know what effects, if any, the rumble ball would have on other zoan users

[west saffron]

I think the rumble ball is made to be specific to choppers fruit. WAIT WAIT WHAT IF GEAR 5 LUFFY LOOSES AND CHOPPER FEEDS HIM A RUMBLE BALL LMAO

[inner swift]

Not sure, some medicines only affect certain species so it’s strength would be strange/affects them to a different level. That’s why choppers TF is so strong, it’s made specifically for his body, so he’d have to rework it to enhance someone like Luffy or Sengoku.

[inner swift]

Likely yes, as it’s a side affect, just as marco turning into healing fire is, or Devon’s ability to shapeshift.

[west saffron]

Or sengoku;s ability to turn into a budda?

[inner swift]

I’d say yeah, it’d just look like a giant shiny golden chopper.

[west saffron]

I like it

[inner swift]

Cause it seems that Mythicals zoans particularly grant special bonus abilities, whereas ancients and Standards can’t as often, although Choppers ability to speak could be considered a bonus.

[west saffron]

I think that comes with becoming partially the creature that you eat. if you eat the human-human fruit, humans can speak so thats just part of being the creature, not necessarily the extra ability

[inner swift]

Probably actually yeah

Although now that I think on it, when it comes to the mythical zoans we’ve seen, what was Sengoku’s bonus? Does he have a second TF but instead he’s a skinny bhudda?

Like I said, Devon can shapeshift like a 9 tailed fox, Luffy is a rubber boy, and Marco has a borderline Logia thanks to his, but what about Sengoku?

[ornate perch]

prob buddha form but smaller and stronger

[woeful forge]

I think he can do like deflections or something

[amber oar]

Sengoku can make those shockwaves or something

[woeful forge]

that might just be haki tho lmao; didn't oda mention that haki doesnt actually change the color of anything? it was just an effect he added to show that it WAS haki being used in those cases

[inner swift]

Like the only other one of note is Kaido, but he’s got an absurd range of skills anyway thanks to his.

[woeful forge]

when are we gonna get a full god valley flashback

[west saffron]

soon tbh

[woeful forge]

it's clearly building up to that with the small cut ins with big mom young, talking to presumably kaido just joining ROCKS

[west saffron]

I have a theory that luffy will only defeat kaido when the sun rises on wano, it seems thematically perfect considering luffy bringing the "dawn of this world", etc. etc. This would allow enough time for a kaido flashback to happen.

[woeful forge]

That makes alot of sense especially if you subscribe to the idea that this BIGGU FIST won't defeat kaido outright, but will lead to a mainland battle between them

[west saffron]

Oda literally said that he didnt want kaido to be defeated by just another strong punch. so yes, i subscribe to that idea

[woeful forge]

I think maybe the lanterns might end up looking like the sun instead? that'd be fun

[west saffron]

I think the lanterns will illuminate luffy and kaido next chapter, making the people know about the battle. Luffy isnt going to defeat kaido without the citizens knowing their going to be saved. that cryptic line from the citizens of the fire festival saying "when the sun rises, we'll be slaves again", what, they just wake up and BOOM their not slaves? seems anti-climactic to me. IG that could work but it seems stupid when the sun is going to rise anyways, we dont know how long the night has been or what time.

[woeful forge]

dang what's the long nosed oni mask guy's name again? anyway at the end of this chapter it looked like he might've seen onigashima coming

[west saffron]

oh, otama's father(?)

[woeful forge]

adoptive presumably, but yeah he had like a "...!" and was looking at the sky (like everyone lol)

[hoary sonnet]

Kaido tanks the punch for a few seconds, holding it back, Luffy taps him on the shoulder from behind and hits him with his other hand

[brisk mirage]

I just really hope the cliff hanger giant fist isn’t a gag that misses. I want to see Kaido on deaths door, apologizing for underestimating G5

Congratulating Luffy for damaging him the most since God Valley Incident

[eager frost]

There is a reason Luffy is holding on to him. He ain’t missing this one after failing with lightning attacks.

[brisk mirage]

But I can see Oda making Kaido go dragon form and slipping in between the giant fingers 😂

Like a 🐍

[eager frost]

Don’t give him funny ideas

[lusty beacon]

idk y but kaido feels weaker in his dragon form

[lone adder]

What a funny coincidence that Luffy, the Sun God, has the perfect counter to Enel, who travelled to the moon

[brisk mirage]

When will Enel fans just stay in the grave with their low tier villain

[pure raven]

Any theory about 1048?

[elder saddle]

Why can’t I type in spoilers

[pure raven]

I can’t find spoilers?

[elder saddle]

The thread is there

[pure raven]

Where can I read spoilers in thsi channel?

[elder saddle]

#spoilers

[pure raven]

I cant click on it and I can’t find it don’t know why

[honest igloo]

I think you need the spoilers role

[pure raven]

I did click on it it’s not giving me the role what should I do?

[honest igloo]

You probably need to remove your "no spoiler" role

[pure raven]

Yep I got helped from moderator

[honest igloo]

[fathom matrix]

Do you think there were attempts at recreating logias and paramecias and it was possible? But Vegapunk realise it would be too risky and he didn't want to give the marines too much power

[terse fog]

I think you might be able to recreate logia's but not make new logia's since they are only natural elements and presumably there is a logia for every element already. However you might be able to let's say make a dark dark fruit from a light light fruit however I doubt it

[glossy wigeon]

Idk man Mythical zoans are rarer than logias

[fathom matrix]

true, but you say that and we have just as many if not almost as many mythical zoans to logias

8, we have 8 mythical zoans

[terse fog]

There is definitely less mythical zoans than logia's at least shown and the odds are that there is more logia's in existence than mythical zoans overall including non-seen.

[fathom matrix]

11 logias

[glossy wigeon]

We don't know all logia and all Mythical users that could be in the world in theory also mythical zoans were confirmed to be the rarest fruit type there is in an sbs

[terse fog]

Also stated by kizaru and not just in a SBS. Also logia's seem to vary a lot in terms of strength besides their ability to not be damaged without haki or their natural counterpart such as sand and water. While on the other hand mythical zoan fruits seem to be usually quite strong (and not just because of the wielder being a big figure). Besides the usual strength increase of a zoan they have an even greater increase in ability. I think it had been stated by Lucci back in enies lobby that carnivore zoans have a bigger boost than herbivores, and I want to say the same is for mythical, so herbivore than carnivore and then the dinosaur models (technically called dragon-dragon) and then mythical. They also grant at least one ability for mythical devil fruits besides their forms and increase in psychical abitlies, and they usually seem to be quite strong or having a very helpful aspect such as marco's fruit.

[fathom matrix]

since mythical fruits are rare and they only had kaido, i wonder if thet attempted any logias with kizaru

[glossy wigeon]

I forgot that ever happened ngl also why tf is the cool down a whole ass 1 minute

[terse fog]

I finally just finished editing my previous message if you want to read the updated text. I had edited it because of the cooldown

[covert quarry]

Can we all agree that Blackbeard is 3 ppl? The real bb in real life was known for having 3 names

[terse fog]

We don't know if that is true or if he has 3 of something and whether that be 3 people with 3 different souls, 3 personalities, 3 bodies acting as one person or what, it could be various different things. Also I don't know if it proves anything against it but Blackbeard did have 3 different names and 2 of them were Edwards and with different last names or depending on the source they were just spelled different such as Edward Thatch and Edward Teach, the different names with different last names not spelling were Blackbeard, Edward Thatch and Edward Drummond (I believe these are what they were). Being different versions of Edward seems strange to me as if they him having 3 names was truly accurate or just a historical mistake of accounts which is why I am hesitant to the theory, however personally I think he differently is a them based on what Luffy and Zoro said stating he was not a he but a them, back in Skypiea, which confirms Blackbeard is indeed multiple people however in what way? Souls? Personalities? Bodies that are look a likes (I doubt this one)? Wills or Rhythms if the Rhythm theory is true of people's voice (was posted on reddit a while back)?

[covert quarry]

Ty for your feedback , 3 souls, 3 personalities all of that does makes sense

[covert quarry]

Do you think he’ll be the last enemy for luffy? Because Blackbeards ship is 3 logs and back in the day there was this story folklore octopus 🐙 who was a monster and scared pirates on the sea(I hope that makes sense English is not my first language)

[glossy wigeon]

I have read it

[terse fog]

I honestly don't know because there will be the war after Luffy finds the One Piece and most likely Blackbeard will be right behind Luffy or they will have taken one another out or just Luffy winning right before hand (I don't think this would be the case since Luffy usually losses at least once to an enemy before he wins and once he wins they usually don't comeback at least for a while), however I don't think Blackbeard will die (I think Luffy will have had to kill him but failed but had won the fight overall, I know I know that Oda has stated Luffy does not kill people however I think he will try killing Blackbeard based on what he has done to Luffy and other people) and that Blackbeard will come back during or after the war and not sure what his purpose exactly would be however I feel like it would be kind of weird having Blackbeard as not the last enemy, however whenever there's an enemy we know that the celestial dragons are always worse than them, so I am not sure based and I don't really think we have any evidence to a point to say who will be the last enemy the WG or Blackbeard and we can really only take guesses based on storytelling aspects of how Oda rights and what fits.

[covert quarry]

Thank you so much for you input 🙏🏽 I love reading your feedback

[terse fog]

Your welcome

[left hearth]

Can Blackbeard not be part of WG like Mingo?

[terse fog]

100% not the WG did not even know who Blackbeard was until he was introduced by Laffitte for a candidate to be a Warlord

[left hearth]

Sorry, I meant celestial dragons

The story seems to enjoy hiding away kids, example Law, Mingo, Heart, etc. The only problem I see with this is that Teach is a D right?

I still think there is some importance to Teach's ancestry

[terse fog]

I don't even think that is even a possibility especially being a D, even without him being a D it would not even begin to be a possibility. And 100% there being something with his ancestry however I can tell you that he ain't part of the celestial dragons I am a 100% positive that he ain't and I don't think there is even any room to bring any doubt to it that he ain't part of the celestial dragons and 99% percent positive he ain't part of the WG at least anymore if at all, after all nobody currently in the WG would release all of the level 6 prisoners at least most of them. Maybe a WG agent might kill someone or a few or release somebody for a very extreme and specific reason but I doubt it would ever come to releasing even one (because they would most likely kill them and not release them and I don't see any point in them doing that expect for a case like Shiryu, and the odds are a scenario like that is never happening again and it probably never has happened expect that Scenario, plus they won't do it again based on of what happended with Shiryu betraying them).

[twilit dagger]

Any Monkey D. Dragon theories here?

[left hearth]

Could he have been sent to the future by the previous toki toki fruit bearer? Maybe it was a problem that the previous joy boy couldn't deal with at the time, and they made the decision to send him forward 800 years when the world would be ready and the next joy boy appeared. Do we know if the previous Joy Boy was a D? The most recent toki toki fruit bearer was born 830 years ago which would still coincide if the pervious toki toki user died in that void year period.

[terse fog]

No that would be impossible since he is the son of Garp and that would mean he came with Garp at the same time and I doubt that. Also why they need to do that in the first place? Second I bet there is a limit on how far you can jump into time with that devil fruit since Toki had stated instead of jumping 20 years into to the future of how she wanted to in the past (at least how it she implied it) that instead she was going to help set the events in motion for 20 years in the future (which is the present now). And if she did want to see the current events happening in the present she would of immediately jumped in one jump to the present, the only thing that she would not is because she did not know when the events would happen until Oden told her based on him learning of the truth of the world after reaching Laugh Tale with Roger

[left hearth]

I mean I think that had more to do wiith the fact that she had a family and Odens premonition than on the limitations of the toki toki fruit itself, i mean, she traveled 800 years herself. I also don't particularly recall that it was ever proved that Teach is Garp's son right? If so, excuse my ignorance. Also, on a side tangent, Dragon himself doesnt look like Garp, and although luffy is considered Garps grandson, I don't believe Garp has ever referred to Dragon as his son, so perhaps it a lot like Ace's and Luffy's relationship.

[terse fog]

Luffy did call Garp Grandpa so I do think that Garp and Luffy are related by blood, and so Dragon could be the Son-in-Law of Garp and that Garp had a daughter and Dragon uses Monkey which would be his wife's name instead of his name to hide the his true name which has various possibilities

[left hearth]

Could Luffy's mom gotten involved with a celestial dragon and had teach in secret?

[terse fog]

Okay now you are just coming up with random idea's with no base and there is no reasoning why that would even happen. Also Teach has really no prior relation besides being from Whitebeards crew and after that point Ace and whatever connections were made through that including the WG, Luffy and what whatever current events have happened since the time Luffy has begun his pirating career at least that we know about, also based on Teach's age Dragon would of only been 15 years old and I doubt Dragon and Luffy's mom would have a huge age difference to the point of her being old enough to give birth to Teach and then meet Dragon and Luffy, also if that were to be true it is kinda ridiculous story telling and does not fit Oda what so ever because than it is pushing things to a limit seeming unrealistic

[left hearth]

No, I eally do appreciate your responses, since there are still so many unknowns in Luffy's family, I actually don't think trying to insert Teach somewhere is that farfetched, however, I do agree that this particular insertion is probably not how Teach fits in.

[flat lava]

The only potential family of Teach I could even say is remotely "hinted" at or even has a possibility of being true is Rocks D. Xebec. Both D's and Teach named his ship the Saber of Xebec, it's nowhere near concrete but it's possible. Or he's just what roger is to Luffy an inherited will

[drifting spindle]

Will Yonko's title still exist after Kaido and Big Mom are defeated or will the title end like the "Warlords of the Sea" ?!

[flat lava]

I'm sure they will, it has nothing to do with the WG it's an opposing powered. Hell it might only exist because of Big News Morgan's like the newspapers made up the term pirate king and the world thinks Luffy is the fifth emperor because of the news. If those two go down a massive power vaccum will happen and other pirates will take their place. I could see law and kid being called the new emperor's because of this by Morgan's or someone else outside the conflict could rise up and take a position

I still bet money buggy will accidentally become an emperor he's the definition of failing upwards

[warm edge]

Might change to something else, not warlords, maybe rulers

[inner swift]

No, but I think a power vacuum may occur and either lead to new yonko (probably from the worst generation) or shanks and BB will become the only two left.

[raw laurel]

I believe bb is a snake user based off of apophis
Here’s why

https://www.reddit.com/r/WildAnimeTheories/comments/udu8fj/black_beard_is_a_mythical_snake_user/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

[primal cargo]

I don't think we're gonna have another snake villain just because Kaidou is already plenty of that
Nice catch on the snake eating the sun though

The thing I like about Cerberus is not only does it fit the whole "3 heads"/"several people" business, but it's also hinted by him using claws to fight

[raw laurel]

I don’t know there’s to many coincidences for me to ignore

[inner swift]

The Cerberus or kraken theories are my two favourites in terms of him having a Zoan, although I’ve got my own theory as to the strange nature of BB’s DF.

So all Logias have 3 main strengths. Transformation, creation and control.

It’s what they can turn their body into, what they can create from their body, and what they can control in the environment.

For example, the Mera Mera no mi is great at all 3, the body can become completely fire, fire can be used for a lot of offensive potential and you can often find it during a battle (a building on fire could be manipulated)

The problem with being made of darkness though is the potential of transformation. If darkness is literally nothing, then if BB became fully darkness or turned his body into the darkness, he’d likely not be able to regain it, as proven by Aokiji’s missing limbs. So if BB became darkness, he’s becoming nothingness, and he would likely dissipate and die.

So in other words, it’s creation and control potentials are incredibly high, but he won’t transform himself into darkness as he knows the damage it could permanently do to him.

So this is my best explanation of why he can be burned by fire. It’s that or that it’s the other unthought of option, and that the Yami Yami no mi is a Paramecia.

It would have given him the property of a black hole as shown by his power demonstrations, but it wouldn’t let him turn into a giant black mass or transform his body like any other logia users.

If that makes sense.

Let me know if there’s any gaps or contradictions to my theories.

[pure raven]

Post Wano Bounty Predictions?

[paper barn]

kaido is 4.6 but bounties are also given because of cruelty

although luffy is not cruel he is joyboy

so I guess it'll be around the same as kaido's

But I do think the bounty system will go to shit after wano, just like the shichibukai system

[pure raven]

Then how will pirates danger levels to the WG be ranked?

[paper barn]

Well it doesn't get any more dangerous than joyboy doesn't it? the WG was founded after he was defeated(or something like that). If they don't pull ALL resources into defeating Luffy it'll be too late for them imo. this type of threat cant be numbered. its either an all out survival war, or no more WG.

[tacit umbra]

?

[inner swift]

I think it’s ranked between threat level to the government, threat level to the people and influence. So if Luffy is a high threat to the WG and will have influence once people realise that he’s a Joyboy, I’m guessing his bounty will skyrocket to at least 4.5 billion belli. As that’s the level that most Yonko were at, and only WB and Roger ever crossed the 5 billion threshold, although by the end of the series, Luffy will have surpassed Rogers record.

[inner swift]

The problem like with most things of popular discussion in OP is that we just don’t know enough yet

It could just be random claws, but it could be made to look like something particularly.

Whilst I think that Oda loves the growing parallels between Luffy and Koby with Roger and Garp, I heavily disagree that there Xebec equivalent will be in Elbaf and I don’t think for a second that it’s going to be with Big Mom.

There’s been plenty of notable comparisons from the old age to the great pirate era, but Teach has always had the Xebec connection. And Katakuri whilst caring about family, is still not much like WB overall.

If anything, Ace was the modern era Edward Newgate, and out of the worst generation, there are some semi-decent contenders, particularly Kid and his rivalry/respect for Luffy (Roger)

And if Koby wants to take down a woman like Alvida, plenty of Linlins daughters are pretty evil, and out of the BB pirates, Devon is particularly sadistic. Although Linlin herself is a good example of a woman who is completely what Koby would want to defeat.

The major problem with what you are saying IMO, is that rivalry/respect angle. I don’t think Luffy and Katakuri would ever really have the dynamic that Roger and Newgate had.

[glacial vessel]

katakuri fits more as shiki than wb

[inner swift]

Although Katakuri could have a dynamic more akin to Shiki or Big Mom herself, not direct rivals, but still noted opposites

[visual merlin]

katakuri and Luffy could definitely have that sort of dynamic

Shiki was much more of an evil guy looking to be an enemy to roger, katakuri probably would be a bit kinder to luffy

[glacial vessel]

shiki was evil but respected roger

[inner swift]

If anyone was to have the dynamic of WB and Roger in the modern pirate era, without a doubt it’s Kid and Luffy. Roughly same era, different approaches to how they see their crew, noting each other’s strength levels, and even allying for short stretches.

[visual merlin]

Yea, but thats not enough to connect him with katakuri

if anything it would be the other way around in terms of dynamics, Kid would be like Shiki

[inner swift]

I didn’t even say that Linlin is a bad fit, just said that there is other ones (for Koby’s Alvida rip off hunt)

[inner swift]

The thing is, there’s a few characters in who parallels WB in the modern era. You can make an argument for Katakuri, I make my case for Kid, in the most recent episode as well it points out the WB and Ace parallels too alongside that of Oden and Yamato and Roger and Luffy.

[visual merlin]

the episode also paralleled Oden with Sabo, its not a huge thing

[inner swift]

Rocks is still a heavily mysterious character, and I’m pretty sure the crew fell apart thanks to having to many potential big shots in conflict internally, 3 of the 5 yonko were members, plus Shiki and John.

So the parallels to Big Mom are mostly gonna be undefined entirely until we know more about Rocks and what happens post-Wano.

Whilst I disagree with your theory overall, I see plenty of good evidence to it, and you’ve argued a good case for sure, but there’s just so many things to consider in trying to find comparisons truly fit almost perfectly, which they don’t have to, but they still need to have a good bit of overlap.

One last point I want to bring up, who was stronger between Kaido and Newgate? Cause they were both “the strongest” for a while, although Kaido was a thing and WB was a man.

[glacial vessel]

well at start of story kaido was stronger but prime i think its wb

[inner swift]

Just seeing if there’s any definitive answer, cause if the case was WB being stronger, then @hexed shuttle I’d actually probably agree with your theory.

[inner swift]

Alright, that adds a lot to the discussion about Kat being WB’s modern equivalent.

[glacial vessel]

iam not really following the discussion but kaido rn is in his prime so comparing him to dying wb isn't really fair

[iron lion]

Regarding Koby, I think I can guess as to how he and fujitora will take down Boa.

Observation Haki allowing them to not fall for Boa's love-love fruit.

Fujitora is blind, Boa's beauty will not affect him in any way shape or form. He may give orders for the marines to sequester the civilian population of Amazon Lily safely away from the battle they are about to have.

Koby has been shown to have a strong understanding of Observation Haki and may use this battle as a way to grow his strength in this area further, fighting with a blindfold to prevent him from falling victim to the love-love fruit's abilities

Thus with the two marines tag-teaming boa in battle, she will ultimately be defeated and brought in for her crimes

[glacial vessel]

tbh i doubt boa's df affects any admiral

[inner swift]

Essentially, I’d agree with Eclipse’s theory if WB was second only to Xebec

[iron lion]

if only Aokiji were here right now...

[visual merlin]

Coby can't do anything to boa, and if fuji is there he won't need help

Boa can use her df on you even if you aren't attracted but Fuji would probably win either way

[glacial vessel]

he isn't an admiral so he doen't count

[inner swift]

Probably yeah, but Kat was one of three commanders at the time, but he wasn’t the first if I remember that right, so in all honesty, WB and Kat as a parallel makes more and more sense now.

[iron lion]

It's been two years since we last saw koby, given he's still training under Garp(?), he probably is able to go at least semi-toe-to-toe with a warlord of the sea. With Fujitora, it may be more of a learning experience for him with him mastering future sight or something. This could be take place where Koby reaffirms his ambitions and strengthens his haki as a result

[glacial vessel]

do you mean 2 years story wise or real time wise

[iron lion]

uhhhhhhh Story-wise.

[inner swift]

Although most of the movies aren’t canon, we saw a brief bit of Koby post time-skip and he could take regular guys out in a single kick, and he’s been training under the strongest marine for I think 3 years in world time.

[glacial vessel]

what is coby current rank again i forgot

[inner swift]

And Koby has shown up since the time skip, he and Helmeppo are absolutely jacked now.

[visual merlin]

He's still a captain, and hasn't shown super special feats, I doubt he can od anything to boa

and well...lots of characters are jacked

[desert obsidian]

koby cant take on boa cuz boa has 1 shot DF ability and if it doesnt work boa has all 3 haki

[glacial vessel]

well i think marine ranks usually are their power levels so i dont know why isn't koby higher rank

[inner swift]

Wanna bring up something else, we know that Warlord bounties were frozen after achieving their titles from the WG, but what would many of their bounties likely be if that wasn’t the case? Doflamingo was at like 340 million, but easily had the potential to be amongst 1 billion bounties IMO.

[visual merlin]

We'll have to see the bounties of some of the warlords later hopefully

I imagne Doffy would be something like 800 mil

[desert obsidian]

doffy 340m as he wouldnt pose a threat to WG as long as they didnt do anything
boa 80m is like unreliable since its first voyage

[visual merlin]

Maybe if all of his knowledge is considered he could hit 1 bil

[inner swift]

Definitely. The frozen bounties on the warlords makes thing confusing. As characters like Cracker can hit super high bounties, but I think there’s at least a few warlords capable of wiping his ass off the planet.

[desert obsidian]

Im unsure if WG will keep it low as doffy blackmailing or make it high, but making it high will seem like the WG challenging doffy and doffy could reveal everything about mariejois.
cant wait for mihawk bounty tho. (i think its gonna be around 1.5b - 2.5b, maybe even 3b)

ok i forgot about doffy being in prison.

[glacial vessel]

we won't even see doffy bounty because he is already in prison

[desert obsidian]

i wonder what is weevil bounty tho, i suspect marines are hard capping about being close to prime WB strength

hody is old

[inner swift]

Doffy is getting out of there before the final arc, calling it rn, one of Luffy’s last fights is gonna be a bunch of past antagonists all going for him at once, Doffy, Moria, Enel and like Hody Jones all coming for him at once.

[desert obsidian]

BON CHANNN LETS GO BON CHAN WE LOVE YOU BON CHAN

moria i suspect is dead and bb crew stole fruit

[inner swift]

Doesn’t mean he can’t at least try and fight. Full body and Jango are incredibly weak and they still showed up to try a couple of times.

[dense canopy]

Hody Jones.. Isn't he super aged rn?

[visual merlin]

If its crakcer I really only think Mihawk and Boa could beat him handily

maybe not even Boa due to the matchup

[visual merlin]

Mihawk I imagine will be like 1.7 bil

[visual merlin]

yea, Im just saying what I think it would be

[inner swift]

If anyone gets the fruit, I’d say Doc Q gets it. Makes the most sense out of the fruitless pirates left.

[dense canopy]

Bon chan is alive tho?

[desert obsidian]

bon chan alive yes cover story 666 or 667 i forgot (chapter) new queen of 5.5

[inner swift]

Mihawk is certainly a high bounty, although it couldn’t go too high as it’s established that he can’t best Shanks in their current states. He straight up dipped from marineford cause he didn’t think he’d have to see Shanks.

[visual merlin]

I agree with what Eclipse said

he can't be above BB

BB is at least close to as strong as mihawk, but also is a yonko with a huge crew and all, it'd be odd if Mihawk got equal or higher

so I also would say 2.1 bil max

[inner swift]

BB is like at 2.4 bill rn, yeah? Still seems low for his potential, but he’s only supposedly been at Yonko level in the WG’s eyes for a year in universe. Whereas the others have all been notable pirates for decades.

Absolutely. I’d only guess there’s a few folk that can currently take on BB.

Mihawk is at least the level of an Admiral. But Shanks is solid pirate king material.

[visual merlin]

2.2 but yea

[inner swift]

People don’t seem to realise, but Mihawk doesn’t have like, amazing Haki. He has basic observation and armament but that’s all lol.

Hmm, I thought his observation level wasn’t that notable.

Wanna mention too, the other thing I think we’ll see before the end of Wano is the end of Kaido’s flashback to his conversation with Big Mom on the Rocks crew. Cause Luffy slapped him out of that shit.

I feel there was a reason for showing it though, Kaido being a “thing” is kinda my favourite mystery about him, is he a thing cause he’s a Zoan user? Or is it something more sinister?

I heard a super weird theory that he was made by Big Mom and that’s what there connection is.

Me too, but there’s been a lot of equally strange ideas I’ve heard. One was that he’s a robot made by Vegapunk and then it stole a devil fruit

Again, incredibly stupid.

[small creek]

What if Kid is a D member and his
name would be Eustass D. Kid?
In Marineford, Luffy had a tattoo
on his arm that said "3D2Y" we
all know what that tattoo means
but what if Oda was actually
foreshadowing a battle between 3
"D"members(Luffy,Law, Kid) vs 2 "Y"
Yonkos(Kaido, Big Mom)

[inner swift]

Big question, I know that there is “tribes” of human like people with large features. But why are some humans in universe absolutely massive? Aokiji is canonically 9ft 9” buy he’s a normal(ish) guy.

[inner swift]

What you haven’t considered is that Ussop is in Onigashima too, and will land the final hit on Kaido.

Although it’s not a terrible theory, we know nothing of Kids past and it’s hinted he’s got a lot to hide.

[visual merlin]

no

[terse fog]

Also there has been no indication for Kidd being a D member and what purpose would even serve? Also I feel like members of D are rare and when you add Kidd onto it, it makes it seem excessive. Also Kidd is probably of Noble blood, after all Kidd was a real life pirate in history who once was royalty or a noble I can't remember. And being noble I doubt he was a D since the WG would not allow it (remember Garp is a huge exception to the WG allowing him to be a Marine)

I doubt that Kidd is the son of John, since historically in real life history Kidd was a noble or royalty I can't remember. And the only way he could be if John was of noble bloodline which I doubt for many reasons, one of them being Kidd most likely grew up in nobility

[flat lava]

So what do you think the future of the scabbards will be because right now none of them are dead we just don't know the condition of Ashura, Izo and Kanjuros the rest are all alive and well for now but we also have no idea were denjiro is though he will probably show up to save hiyori and end orochi

[terse fog]

Obviously Kanjuro needs to be replaced, and I think Shinobu will replace him, however I don't know why any of the others need to replaced as of yet (since we can't confirm if any of them are alive or dead at this point in them, and to be honest who would even replace them?)

[west saffron]

AIGHT what was the name of the mayor of water 7 the other shipwright under Tom?

[terse fog]

Iceburg, also if you are here only only for that question this is a place for serious conversation only of theories

[west saffron]

Im writing a theory, needed to know the name, Fair enough, my bad

[terse fog]

That's quite easy to find out via the fandom

[flat lava]

At this point I'm just wondering what will happen to kanjuro cause right now he's just passed out in the room kaido bodied kinnemon

[small creek]

Idk its just a theory mate

[terse fog]

Yes and Oda does things like that all the time, also there is a whole detailed theory about it. #manga-theories message Message id for the theory

[west saffron]

Momo is pluton

That sounds crazy, right? Well, franky states in eines lobby when he burns the blueprints that the blueprints are actually a countermeasure to pluton. All information about pluton now needs to be recontextualized knowing that the shipwrights have been hiding both of those secrets for literally 800 years.
CP9 didnt know about that. they thought that pluton was just the blueprints. Crocodile probably thought it was a ship because of these blueprints. They have no information about the ACTUAL pluton.
Iceberg comments to robin in water 7 that pluton was built at water 7 ages ago, presumably during the void century, presumably to counteract the actual pluton.
Basically, we dont actually have any reliable information that the actual pluton is a ship.

Shirahoshi is the only ancient weapon we know about for certain. She can hear the sea kings alongside luffy through the voice of all things, just like roger and oden could hear the sea kings with the voice of all things.
She commands the sea kings just by her voice, and the sea kings call her the sovereign when they hear of sharkley's prophecy in the roger flashback.

Momo and luffy can hear zunesha through the voice of all things. I think that is undisputable. Momo commands zunesha through his screamed regular voice.

Both Momo and Shirahoshi are the decendants of the royal bloodline of two kingdoms with heavy ties to the ancient kingdom, evident through poneglyph information and the fact that the poneglyphs are built by wano citizens.
Does the moments of momo commanding zunesha and shirahoshi commanding the sea kings not scream INTENTIONAL PARALLELS to you?
Does a massive battleship-to-end-all-battleships built by the best shipwrights ever not seems like an effective countermeasure to a MASSIVE FUCKING ELEPHANT?

Dont have enough characters will copy paste the next part after slowmo

Furthermore, Zunesha was punished for some reason. If the shipwrights of water 7 were on the ancient kingdoms side (presumably, the ships designer wanted it to stay OUT of the hands of the WG), it seems like a good reason to punish zunesha if he was being controlled by the WG or needed to be stopped for some alternate reason?

The biggest plothole here is that 1) Momo could be a different ancient weapon, 2) why has robin not mentioned any of this if the poneglyph in alabasta had info on pluton, and 3) why the hell was zunesha going on a rampage if he was buddy buddy with joyboy? compelled to by an evil kozuki? compelled to by an evil sovereign, if not all kozuki can control zunesha (unconfirmed things about zunesha).

If this theory is true, that means the ancient weapons fit a pattern. They are people, who can command beasts or a beast that can communicate using the voice of all things.

[inner swift]

Here’s a list of topics I’ve noticed getting repeatedly mentioned:

BB and a Zoan fruit
Imu
What being Joyboy means
Kid being something special
Kaido. Just in general.
Xebec and if he has descendants
Just kinda BB in general also
“Stealing” DF’s
The purpose of the ancient weapons
And The rocks pirates

Anyone noticing a pattern?

[west saffron]

The the original one, is never confirmed, anywhere, by any reliable source, to be a ship.

[terse fog]

I don't think so because it was stated the blueprints I think were the blueprints made to make pluton, and where has momo shown anything that he could be an ancient weapon? And it has been indeed stated pluton is ship so why would it change? Also we only have one confirmed ancient weapon which is shirashoi which is posedion and nothing else so there is no pattern

[inner swift]

For those wondering, the pattern is it’s all stuff we hardly know anything about. Which I suppose you’d expect in a theory community, that’s the whole point, but the theories here are specifically on shit we know almost jack-shit about.

[flat lava]

Toki didn't give birth to momo, the built him on whitebeards ship

[inner swift]

He was in the egg.

[flat lava]

Big brain

[terse fog]

I feel like that's a big issue here that a lot of theories have no base, this is because to make any theory with any base is hard to do because the amount of research needed to do so and then the fact most people aren't willing to do so. However if you do indeed do your research into theories there is so much you can go on that ain't baseless

[terse fog]

Momo was born on whitebeards ship, and second momo was born before oden even met roger, third this channel is for serious topics once again and not jokes like that

[west saffron]

BRO DOES NOBODY KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS SERIES? the bluepritns are stated to be a countermeasure to pluton, the countermeasure is a ship, but its confusing because pluton was repeated to be a battleship so many times that NOBODY NOTICED THAT EVERYONE WHO SAID PLUTON WAS A SHIP EITHER ACTUALLY KNEW IT WAS A COUNTERMEASURE, OR THOUGHT THAT THE BLUEPRINTS WERE PLUTON NOT THE COUNTERMEASURE. we have ZERO reliable sources saying that pluton is a ship, who we know it being serious. Iceberg said to robin that pluton was built at water 7 long ago, but he was talking to an enemy at the time.

[inner swift]

Me and eclipse had a full on debate earlier about how the modern parallel of WB is, and we both presented a lot of evidence. But I definitely understand. Sometimes folk just come out with random shit and we talk about it for like 2 hours.

[inner swift]

Sometimes I just make a quick joke in the middle of a discussion but only when it’s a theory I find kinda stupid. No offence @flat lava

[terse fog]

And sometimes you do need to push one part of a thoery somewhat because it would add up to prove another part of a thoery however theren't aint any evidence towards that one part of it. However it is not okay to have a theory with no base at all

[terse fog]

Its fine and I don't really understand jokes very well so I think it makes me a little more picky about them in here when people bring jokes into this channel

[flat lava]

Hahaha non taken

[west saffron]

I fucking hate people for that though. they have all this headcanon wound up in their own baseless speculation that any ACTUAL THEORY BASED OFF EVIDENCE AND PARALLELS AND FINE READING OF THE ACTUAL MANGA, is thrown asunder by saying AHHFBDSHJJHVB BUT MY BASELESS HEADCANON correction, not necessarily this discord server. its a problem with one piece theories at large

[inner swift]

It’s all good. Whenever I make a joke here anyway it’s always just me saying an answer or alternative to a dumb theory.

[flat lava]

I just read the first line and made a joke about it I didn't actually read the theory

[terse fog]

Anyway I am going to get off here to a play a game so cya all

[inner swift]

I have like one theoretical headcanon and that’s the Yami Yami no mi is a logia, however if BB were to turn his body into darkness he’d just dissipate and die immediately because he’s becoming nothingness so that’s why he never makes himself into a blob of darkness

[west saffron]

I actually remember you saying that

[inner swift]

I didn’t think anyone read that tbh, when it comes to BB everyone just goes on about the potential of it being a Zoan.

[west saffron]

IM THE ONLY ONE SAYING THAT MOMO IS PLUTON, I am absolutely certain of it, it seems SO Oda-like to try to confuse the entire one piece community of some basic fact like OH, PLUTON IS A SHIP, or OH, LUFFYS FRUIT IS THE GOMU-GOMU NOMI. The evidence shows that the blueprints of plutons COUNTERMEASURE is a ship. Thats all we know for certain. not a SINGLE SOUL has direct evidence that pluton is a ship. they have knowledge of blueprints for a ship titled pluton, which is stated to be a countermeasure and not the actual thing

[terse fog]

Especially after Luffy was confirmed to be a zoan they are stating that blackbeard has a zoan and not a logia

[west saffron]

I honestly think my theory is going to be proven right by end of wano-soon after wano. I want to scream it to the heavens for credit lmao

[inner swift]

The BB having a Zoan actually existed for years, but the fact that we were straight up lied to about a fruit since chapter 1 put everyone into super overactive theory rage about literally every semi-strange DF

[terse fog]

Well I am not stating it has been around until recently I am just stating it has gained more supporters recently

[west saffron]

The theory now is not that bb has a zoan, but that bb's yami-yami nomi is a zoan. very different theory.

[inner swift]

Gonna kidnap Oda and make sure he doesn’t let that happen just to spite you.

[west saffron]

Can we at least agree that we have NO RELIABLE SOURCES SAYING THAT THE ACTUAL PLUTON IS A SHIP. Point them to me, i have been thinking about this theory for literally 4 months, ive seen all the evidence (i think).

[terse fog]

Can you find me every single mention of pluton in the manga? And then continue this topic because I feel like you are being rational and doing exactly what you hate of what you stated in earlier in this message #manga-theories message . And lets say that pluton ain't a ship it is definitely not Momo, first of all him having that Devil fruit can't be an ancient weapon since then Kaido would be an ancient weapon too, and that would means he would have to be a naturally born ancient weapon and he has shown no such power at all and I doubt he has one based on how he has acted

[west saffron]

Nononono its not that momo's df is an ancient weapon its that momo himself is exactly like shirahoshi. shirahoshi commands the sea kings in the SAME EXACT WAY that momo commanded zunesha. its actaully creepy when you read the manga side by side

[terse fog]

If you have truly have been working on this theory for months I doubt that it would take even 2 days to come up with that much that you said, and if you really want to prove your case put down all your evidence, we are not trying to be mean but we are trying to state that you are being irritational

[west saffron]

I dont understand what im being irrational about. but fair enough about the evidence point. Ill assemble a document

[inner swift]

For the love of god please make a really shitty power point instead of a document

[terse fog]

It is interesting that Momo can command Zou however I don't thnk that makes him Pluton however that does not mean he can't be Uranus (which is still unlikely, since it is way more likely for it being the Lunarions)

[west saffron]

I agree, i think those parts of the theory dont depend on eachother to be true. and i love the idea of a shitty powerpoint but highschool flashbacks i dont wanna. I should just make a video

[terse fog]

And I don't understand why Momo would have to be pluton out of the 2 possibilities

[west saffron]

because there are holes in our info about pluton that everyone is looking over. Momo COULD be uranus, but i think that it would be a more oda-like reveal to reveal that momo is pluton after all of us CONVINCED that it was a ship

[terse fog]

But how does that relate to pluton besides that? What mention towards momo does it have, even indirectly? Please don't even continue this until you can answer this question

Well whitebeard and roger were friends and what not however there was no competition or tenision. Also I am agreeing with you just stating there is some evidence that can be either towards or against that theory depending on how you look at it

[inner swift]

There’s a ton of different rivalries in media that isn’t always just complete and utter enemies. A rival can usually just be someone of a similar position or with a similar end goal in mind.

Being mortal enemies isn’t the requirement for rivalry.

[faint dune]

strongest pirates at the time, rocks might as well be the strongest man before whitebeard, and also i believe that roger was more complete fighter then whitebeard, since he possessed no fruit power and was relying on his might and haki solely.

[west saffron]

We dont exactly, why would Oda give that to us if its intended to be a big reveal? thats not evidence though. However, i think that the lack of information we have on uranus in general makes it VERY VERY hard to make an argument that momo is uranus. We also have to go off the names of the ancient weapons, Pluton is the god of the underworld, of the ground, of the earth. Posiedon is a god of the sea and its creatures, Uranus is a god of the sky. If momo were to be uranus, why would the god of the sky be commanding a creature that walks on the ground? an elephant is very very much a ground creature. I think the misconceptions about pluton that the vast majority of the community has makes it seem to me like oda is setting up a massive reveal about what pluton ACTUALLY is.

[faint dune]

I have a theory about black blades and the inherited will, who wants to hear.

[abstract pond]

Pluton is a ship. There were blueprints. It's confirmed a ship.

[west saffron]

Im not going over that again. please read above. Thats pure headcanon eclipse

[inner swift]

If you’ve got a decent amount of evidence sure, go ahead.

[inner swift]

Franky’s blueprints were for a counter weapon to Pluton.

[west saffron]

WHy would Bb and the WG have no chance to compete even if thats true? Ive heard that point before. Im also going to gather the evidence for pluton NOT being a ship.

[abstract pond]

NO, that's a misconception. It was for Pluton.

[sage prairie]

anyone else think joyoboy was a monkey family?

[inner swift]

Not the most powerful IMO. They’re strong, but I dunno man, the Ussop hammer is pretty OP.

[inner swift]

I think that he wasn’t a monkey, but he was the first “D.” And his children were all from different mothers or eventually split off. That’s where the family names like Monkey or Marshall first showed up.

[sage prairie]

could toki be one of them?

[flat lava]

We know so little about the lunarians and you just threw that out there

[inner swift]

There is potential for her being both a child and former partner of Joyboy, which would then make Momo and Hiyori “D.”’s. Which could tell us a lot about there importance, as all D. members have led to severe story impact in some way aside fro m the obvious them being enemies of the gods.

[abstract pond]

There is proof...https://gruposaedal.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/One-Piece-¿Oda-revela-la-forma-de-Pluton.jpg

[flat lava]

"factual"

[sage prairie]

or is it possible imu was joyboys wife and she betrayed him making imu luffys great granma?

[abstract pond]

If you think the blueprints are for a counter weapon of some shorts is headcanon/theory

[flat lava]

Okay I was specifically gonna call out the last few bits cause we know nothing about the ancient kingdom and wars so thanks for correcting yourself

[west saffron]

Uranus is the lunarian prince has no evidence. I do understand the thematic contrasts your trying to make, but thats not facts. AGREED BANIM

[flat lava]

It is hard to have a debate and follow things up when you can only taklk every minute haha

[inner swift]

I love how everyone skipped over my comment about the USSOP HAMMER

[west saffron]

Okay, im starting to change my mind tbh. I think Momo is uranus has no evidence whatsoever, but im more uncertain about pluton. iceberg states that both plutons are ships, but at the same time robin was a WG enemy to him at the time, why would he tell her the whole truth.

[inner swift]

Don’t get us wrong, it’s good that you’ve compiled a solid amount of evidence, and I’d say you’ve convinced me a bit, but there’s a lot of contradictions and wholes, just like with any theory.

[flat lava]

My only thing is don't we basically know that pluton is in alabasta wasn't that the entire thing and Robin just lied to crocodile, Uranus we just know literally nothing about

[inner swift]

Robin knew that she probably couldn’t defeat or escape Crocodile and she’d have likely been turned over to the government, so I’d say she likely lied to an extent.

[west saffron]

right there, thats not a solid connection at all. thats headcanon. Uranus could be a skypeian, considering they're the sky-like people connected to the poneglyphs

But at the same time, zunesha is fucking MASSIVE. he towers over the red line, that could be considered sky considering how... tall it is? that doesnt seem right.

[inner swift]

Uranus is actually an anagram for ENEL HELL YEAH HES COMING BACK BABEEEEE WOOOOOO

[flat lava]

I know all sky people came from the moon but lunarians keep that Luna in their name so that could imply that they never left if we are going to analyze the names but again not confirmed it's just more likely that's why they are so rare thought to be extinct, they are on one of the moon's or something

[west saffron]

they can harden there body?????? no? they become intangible.

[inner swift]

I dunno, Saint Charlos seems pretty royal. And not to forget his awesome combat skills.

[flat lava]

Wait they can be home intangible? I don't remember king doing that

[steady prism]

Nah, Zuneisha isn’t as tall as the red line imo. He’s huge, but the red line is much taller. He’d need to “climb” to get over the red line

[west saffron]

I got sent this today by a friend of mine https://youtube.com/shorts/PGxnC3yGJDE?feature=share

[inner swift]

I don’t think the redline is as tall as you make it out to be. It’s a sky level, sure, but if it was believable that Tiger could have climbed up then it must not be too high.

[faint dune]

-Introduction:

->Ok so, the theory is simple, black blades and inherited will are generally the same, if you look back at the drum island arc, it was a theme heavily centered around the inherited will and what it can do, and we saw that with chopper and how he was able to manifest dr hiluluk's dream which seemed impossible.
Roger who was the strongest pirate of his time, he conquered the sea with only haki according to kaido and yet he didn't manage to transform his sword into a black blade, the only people known in the story are ryuma and mihawk, and they are both considered the highest level of swordsman mastery, but I don't think roger even considered transforming his sword into a black blade, think about, roger knows about the void century as well as everything there is to know about haki and the breath of all things, so I find it odd that roger didn't have a black blade.

• Black blades:
  -> in order to turn a blade black, you have to manifest your will unto it thus turning it into a black blade, the influence of your haki is manifested permanently into the blade and can no longer be mastered or wielded by other swordsman, that's why zoro cannot use the full potential of shusui because it belongs to ryuma now and forever, same with mihawk, he turned yoru black by manifesting his will (haki) into it and the blade has become his, this is feat can only be performed by those who worship the blade can reach, this is why mihawk is regarded as the strongest swordsman and not someone like shanks who clearly is a swordsman but still doesn't hold the title and that's for a reason.

• The power of a black blade:
  -> Black blades are extremely durable swords that are seemingly unbreakable, which correlates with what I said earlier about black blades and manifestation of haki, while their true power is still a mystery to us, we can speculate that black blades might be able to overcome all foes who rely on a sword, it's the reason why ryuma was unbeatable.

[flat lava]

I don't know where they get the red lines height cause all we know is it reaches 10k meters below sea level I don't think oda ever said how high it is

[west saffron]

yea, idk either

[faint dune]

• the inherited will:
  -> Roger "the king of the pirates" didn't possess a black blade, that's because his will was never manifested into his sword, he named his new born son "Ace" after his blade, because he was hoping that ace might inherit his will and become the one to break the chain and free the slaves and bring in the dawn, but fate and destiny which is a core theme of one piece had another plan in mind, luffy was the one who inherited roger's will, that's why he says the same words that roger once said, it's the reason why Rayleigh wanted to meet him.
  -> Rocks D. xebec is a similar case, he wanted to become king of the world, although the drive for that motive is still unknown, we can theorise that maybe xebec had a similar dream to that of roger but with a twist, instead of sharing freedom with the rest of the world, he can become the one to possess all the freedom in the world, that is why black beard searched for the yami yami no mi, because it restricts people off of their freedom and takes it away and dumps them into eternal darkness.
  -> Blackbeard inherited the will of xebec and that is why White beard told him he was not the one roger was waiting for, clearly not the one since he has a completely different view of the world and is not childish and carefree like luffy.

• Conclusion:
  -> The inherited will is not necessarily reincarnation, it is the exact opposite, instead of becoming that person once again, you just get influenced by his will (haki) and that person doesn't die in the process because his dream lives, and the will of D which is basically joy boy's will that manifested with the D and was passed on from generation to generation never dies.

[steady prism]

You could argue since regular people/merchants use Mariejois to cross to/from the new world that there’s some sort of “mechanism” for them to come up/down to/from the top of the line. Just like how in Wano there’s a way for someone to go underneath the waterfall and go straight to Onigashima. I don’t know what the mechanism could be but I’m not sure where these numbers on the Red Line’s height are coming from. So I’ll look around

[west saffron]

I see no reason the ancient weapons cant be contested by the WG or BB. I also think that the final war will be absolutely dependant on the control of the ancient weapons, and probably will be a major plotpoint

[inner swift]

There’s a super big elevator I think

[west saffron]

Headcanon. There is no evidence that rocks and kozaburo are connected, besides the 50-year thing. fair enough, i said that very coldly.

[inner swift]

Right, whenever anyone says anything here can we just always state with the first word or sentence that it’s a theory? It’ll cut out arguments down by a solid 59%

[swift panther]

Quite specific number

[tame notch]

I guess his lucky number is 59

[shut wasp]

the lost kingdom might have people still living on it

[inner swift]

My lucky number is actually 17, but I’ve been calculating the discourse caused by people forgetting to state what a theory is.

[inner swift]

How much do we actually know of “SWORD”?

I doubt the Aokiji one.

First of all, we’re not entirely sure of BB and Aokijis relationship, and Aokiji has been proven to dislike what the WG has become in his eyes

[lapis prairie]

You're assuming with Aokiji. I don't think you're wrong, but you're assuming

[inner swift]

That’s not entirely my point, Sakazuki taking power in the navy was a big thing to Aokiji, he’d been a solid choice for the role of fleet admiral, but he lost it to someone who he is implied to heavily hate as he represents everything Aokiji saw as wrong with the government at the time.

Aokiji is far from a bad guy, to be entirely honest I think he’s a revolutionary, he’s fighting back against the government with his “lazy justice” and he and the revolutionaries know the potential threat of BB.

Several of BB’s commanders actively sought out and destroyed the OG HQ of the army, and the revs retaliated by attacking the peachbeards who were loyal to teach.

So I think it’s highly possible that Aokiji has a “connection” with BB as he wants to find out more info from teach for the purposes of the revolution.