manga-theories

[plucky kiln]

I hope the trigger to the war won't be a "Save Sabo". Luffy should become pirate king first and then decide to head for the WG based on what happened back then, if he even cares about the history of his letter, which I doubt, but yeah

[late token]

Nono I don’t think anything as of yet ^^ I love theories but I don’t believe any of them bc as far as I know almost no theories turnt out to be true. That’s why I like to question them bc this way most theories turn out to be not very based and then I wait for the final clarification by oda ^^

[prime magnet]

Sabo will be saved by Bonney and we will get the reveal that Bonney is Luffy’s mom

[lunar shell]

That would be way to bad. Oda can’t do that

You would call it : lets save luffy bro 2.0 on marinford 2.0 featuring dragon

[plucky kiln]

Who were the participating forces in the void ? Everything about D. and shit is related to that. Celestials/WG are what they are because of the 20 Kings.

So 20 Kings of countries, 1 Ancient Kingdom ? Was it actually 1 Kingdom vs 20 ?

How dangerous must the ancient kingdom have been to battle 20 kingdoms for A HUNDRED YEARS

We know the D. were a group of people who sworn themselves against the gods, but that was after the void (Gods=Celestials, and celestials came after the void)

So the D might have been people who didn't forget about the void, the ancient kingdom and continued to live defying the current gods

Maybe the only evidence of the Void is in the poneglyphs. Like even the D. and the WG probably doesnt know about it.

What they know is that both have a mission. For the D. to continue to defy the gods and to evenutally discover the forgotten truth.

And for the WG/Celestials especially Imu to not let anyone find out about whatever happened.

Thats probably why the Ohara was seen so dangerous, because they were the first ones to decipher a mystery of 700 years

BTW. did clover even spoke out the name of the kingdom ? If yes, the gorosei either knew or didnt but still ordered to execute him right away

[lunar shell]

Tbh the D are probably just a bunch of people that receive the will of joy boy just like the poneglyph have

[late token]

The 1 ancient kingdom had at least 2 allies as far as we know. Correct me if im wrong but I think it is confirmed that shandora and wano were allies

[modest skiff]

Tails you post some great stuff here so I just wanna make sure you think that and you’re not posting it non seriously. If you do think that, we ask people add some elaboration or analysis rather than just the image

[lime cape]

mostly non seriously but you could take Zeff words literally

[charred river]

If so then he has a connection, the sky people lived ones on the moon and the sulong form is a result of a full moon

[modest skiff]

Gotcha, just try to keep it serious in this channel in the future

[lime cape]

are there any theories on kuma's bible?

[modest skiff]

My totally baseless headcanon is that it is the religious beliefs of the AK, but I don’t think there is any actual information we have. It pertaining to the void century in some way would contextualize him being a revo though

[plucky kiln]

shandora And wano ?

More like shandora had ties to the ancient kingdom
and wano&mink + fishman island directly to joy boy.

But yes this makes them a team

[plucky kiln]

Shouldn't Zeff have been a pirate in rocks era ?

Imagine he was rocks cook first before he became a captain on his own

[lime cape]

Well I have to develop my theory that rocks was the Foxy pirate of his era and built up that cheated crew using the Davy back fight method

[late token]

I think robin specifically said they fought alongside in the void century

[pseudo drift]

does BB knows all along that gomu2 no mi is the legendary DF?

[lunar shell]

Oda probably draw him with the bible to symbolise and explain his repentance. His is called the « tyrant ». So just this one pannel we would gather : he was a tyrant reformed by the bible / he is a tyrant cuz he is too much devoted to the bible.

[lime cape]

I doubt it

[lunar shell]

Nope. He he dont know about his yami yami, that is actually a Headcanon alert Mythological Zoan model dog. Moon god « Cerberus ».

[pseudo drift]

i see, because he was after luffy at one point before they went to skypiea right? that was for luffy bounty?

[lime cape]

I think everyone will know about it through the news, it would be amazing that BB knew sth that the 5 stars didn't know

[lunar shell]

Yep. Any 100 million or more would do. He just wanted to be shishibukai, to unlock his crew.

[pseudo drift]

say whatttt, BB also possess mythical zoan instead of just darkness? it's just theories at this point right

[lunar shell]

Its not : instead. Just like Luffy have gomu cuz of Zoan Nika, Teach have darkness cuz of Zoan cerberus

[pseudo drift]

so it makes him the natural enemy of luffy? sun and moon

[lunar shell]

Its just a theory yes. If u want to know why i m headcanon about it I can link you the reasons

What you say above is one of them yes

[lime cape]

How else do you stop that luffy's broken gear 5?

[pseudo drift]

idk, having blackhole and earthquake by itself sounds broken as it is

[lime cape]

He only needs the strongest Zoan, the hito hito no mi Nika model

[lunar shell]

Y its strong alright. But if you want the fight to have a deeper meaning, it sound cool and fitting to have him have zoan mythological as well.

Not that this logia isnt particular or anything,
or was put in teach’s hand by fate, like the fruit itself came to him,
or is the opposite aspect of Nika in any way.

[pseudo drift]

yea makes sense, if oda is making BB the final boss for SH crew it'll have bigger impact

[lunar shell]

Shanks : « This fight will determine the face of the one piece … »

In the same time we see an eclipse starting.

I say this is cool.

[velvet wasp]

Same way how Sengoku is a Golden Buddha or there is someone named Jesus. It's just one of those worldbuilding quirks. In universe is that it probably just exists as one of the many religions of the Blue Sea.

Additionally, I think it may also symbolize Kuma's sacrifice of himself for the salvation of the Strawhat Pirates since he is functionally dead/fully a robot at this point. Possibly as we learn more about his history as "Tyrant" Kuma we will get more allusions to Biblical Kings

[pure raven]

Hey guys could I say something I wanted to talk about Yamato? I wish he/she could've been a character since Wano hiding in plain sight. Possibly mingling with Strawhats. Not like Kanjuro but just a guy who looked normal and plain. And then when the war starts he shows his true self revealing to be Kaido's son. Possibly wanting to usurp Kaido, but not an ally of Strawhats. I just find it too whimsical how Yamato fell in love with Wano being in that cave one time and is now a full-fledged ally.

[abstract dust]

Anyone have a good guess on what BB meant on "rather on waiting for the Navy, I'll take it for myself"?

[spark relic]

When did he say that?

[velvet wasp]

I personally think Yamato has one of the coolest designs post timeskip and is a really cool way of displaying inherited will. That being said, I really really wish I could like them more. I know a lot are calling for them to be nakama, but like you said it's a little one note on their backstory. I really hope they get more fleshed out because at the moment they're pretty much a semi-generic strong shonen character.

[abstract dust]

Not sure about the manga but in the anime its in episode 957 where they showed that the warlords system disbanded.

[spark relic]

Lol...Why are you calling her like she's a non binary?

[velvet wasp]

During the Wano intermission, I assume, in the post-Reverie reactions. But basically, my theory is that Imu wanted to wipe out Vivi from this world, so Gorosei had CP0 take a hit out on her, but Sabo intervened. In the ensuing chaos, Vivi's father took a hit and died. Sabo is framed for this and now Alabasta is in chaos, as it showed the citizens of Alabasta specifically in horrid shock of the news. Blackbeard is likely headed to Alabasta to get Pluton, if it is actually there.

[pure raven]

I think Alabasta has been re-used so much. But Vivi getting a lot of spotlight because of how she was a fan favorite, just a homage to old fans. But probably nothing of value there.

[velvet wasp]

I do agree as well, but I think that regardless of our personal feelings on the narrative, it's going to be played back into the story. Vivi's reintroduction and being chosen as a target by Imu puts her back in the center. I think the Ancient Weapons are certainly involved with all this, though whatever he is doing

I do wonder how Shanks got his scar against Blackbeard because he specifically said, "I did not get this because I was careless."

[abstract dust]

Makes me wonder how strong was BB before eating his devil fruit.

[spark relic]

It's probably Sabo's df

[velvet wasp]

He definitely had to have some level of "hidden" strength. He already has to tank a bunch of hits due to Yami Yami not having regular logia abilities. IIRC it was said that attacks hurt him even more than they normally would. But it speaks to a big degree that he was able to take out Thatch who was a division commander

[pure raven]

Paprika but in my opinion, being a pure reader (no anime), I think Vivi is like a non-canon character now. Not affecting the story. She is like Lucci and Sengoku. They are never gonna affect the story again. They are just gonna pop in here and there. If that makes sense. They are not gonna be involved in combat like Marco or gonna appear in the final arc. Just characters having cameos for fan service.

[velvet wasp]

I mean... they were literally shown as being the centerpiece of Imu's plan so?

[pure raven]

When was this? When Imu was holding posters?

[spark relic]

It may also be that Sabo was pronounced dead and BB being able to take dfs is going to take it

[raw cobalt]

Tell me your theories

[velvet wasp]

Imu was looking at posters of Luffy, Blackbeard, Shirahoshi, and specifically takes out Vivi's to hold in their hands. Regardless of whatever this means, Vivi is very clearly still important to the story in some way

[raw cobalt]

.

[abstract dust]

Unlikely but still possible. Personally I don't think Oda's going to make Sabo's death an offscreen one, his more likely going to be caught than killed tbh.

[pure raven]

Right. Fine I'll give you that. Fine. And with that yes you're totally sensible to believe Pluton could be in Alabasta.

[abstract dust]

Doesn't Alabasta reveal the location of Pluto, I do see the possiblity that it could be in Alabasta but I think it would make more sense if its in another island?

[modest skiff]

Check pins

[pure raven]

I guess. But then doing the map, then following the map isn't Oda's thing. I don't think Oda would wanna be that complicated.

[abstract dust]

Looking at the pins at After Reverie Theory, I don't think Boa Hancock would be arrested ; especially when they showed her being confident being able to defend their island but Im not entirely sure about this.

[halcyon talon]

shanks wields a sabre called Gryphon

[raw cobalt]

Omki mooo du

[weary canopy]

Does it have any special powers/perks or is it just a normal sabre?

[spark relic]

Yeah

[halcyon talon]

I don't think wr know anything about it yet although I'm not 100% certain

[weary canopy]

Oh ok

[formal bridge]

People think you are traitor

[lunar shell]

Pdp is nice and making me sad the color is actually white.

[formal bridge]

Yeah just googled it

[cerulean thistle]

guys do you think how many chapter left before we gonna see Green Bull in action?

[lunar shell]

You know seeing Luffy become a giant cuz he touch lightning makes me wonder if he doest draw power from light. Maybe the moon is feeding him. Maybe he will be yellow when its the sun that directly feed him power ? Sigh.

[balmy girder]

Superman moment

[steady prism]

There is some precedence to that. We have the minks that transform at moonlight. There’s this weird conflict in my mind when people (i.e me) suggest Joyboy is a Lunarian (Lunar=Moon) but his epithet is the “Sun God”. Which celestial body does/could he “pull” power from? There are some ideas that try to tie Joyboy’s demise to the Minks, which makes me think that moonlight can give him “more power”. But I’m not sure if Oda’s trying to take inspiration from “Krypton/Sayin” lore when his literal epithet is “Sun God”. Anyway sorry for the rambling, this train of thought just brings up so many conflicting ideas for me

[primal cargo]

This is absolutely gorgeous, I didn't realise the water level theory was so solid

[modest skiff]

Thanks!! It’s the theory I cooked up the most independently so it means a lot

[modest skiff]

Also Gotama had a great contribution to my theory by pointing out Zou and Wano are on high altitudes

[lunar shell]

I say the yami and gomu look really alike but one bring the world together and the other apart.

[digital crest]

I like this ideas but my only issue with this is how would this stop any DF users from combating against a rising curren? For example Aokiji could probably freeze all the water or Akainu can possibly form new land with all the water from rising higher. I feel there would be counter measures against this

[formal bridge]

If flooding is for real wouldn't other blues will be destroyed

Or maybe seas inside red line would be on higher altitude than others

[modest skiff]

I think even if this succeeds in saving a lot of people, an enormous majority would still die. I don’t think Aokiji would freeze the planet. Akainu would need to make an island at least 10km tall, then a sufficient width. And it wouldn’t have access to water or vegetation. Even both of those powers working together would likely mean 95+% of the planet dies

[modest skiff]

I don’t know what you mean by this.

[formal bridge]

What do you think would happen if flooding happens

[modest skiff]

The sea level of the planet would rise and it would drown everyone who doesn’t live on the red line, Wano, White Sea, or Zou

Also water7 would survive, which is why I think water7 was built, to be a floating island immune to Imu

[digital crest]

I like the idea because it ties with the idea of Imu being related to water and possibly the Water Water fruit. It would entirely threaten the entire planet.

My only question to you is regarding the Eve Tree and the correlation with the White Sea and Sky Islands? Do you think they would have anything to counter this mass flooding? Or you think Imu would have a way to strike down those on even higher altitudes?

[modest skiff]

Water7 has ancient ruins under it, I don’t think that’s a coincidence

[formal bridge]

But isn't red line dividing grand line from blues

[digital crest]

think of it like 2 giant swimming pools

[modest skiff]

No, the calm belt prevents movement from ships, not flow of water. Seakings and whales freely travel

And yeah they have flow through the red line

[formal bridge]

Why do you think in calm belt is so calm because the flow of water isn't working there

[digital crest]

calm belt is actually likely the most natural body of water within the Grand Line. It is probably purposely negating the origin of the Grand Line. That explains why the Sea Kings mainly hang there

[modest skiff]

#manga-theories message

I don’t have any idea if Imu has a solution to the White Sea. I don’t think so. I think the eve tree is the only way to reach the upper levels of the White Sea. I think the AK still exists there. Read my theory for full elaboration above

[ashen surge]

ackhtually wg has tech to cross the calm belt 🤓

[modest skiff]

Yeah and so does Hancock, I mean besides all that

[lunar shell]

I say calm belt is linked to the cleansing. Perhaps big mechanism rise from there and flood the grandline. But that doesn't explain the water whirlpool much.

[digital crest]

I actually mentioned something similar to where it’s possible the next island after Wano would be a sky island because the high altitude of Wano currently is positioned as well as using the Mt Fuji as a improv Knock Up Stream.

[formal bridge]

Wish we could get an idea on how one piece world looks

[primal cargo]

Water 7 isn't a floating island, is it now ? Iceberg said he wants to make it float, but it has always been real land as far as I know
As for the ruins, are you referring to the old buildings that got flooded ? I wouldn't call those ancient ruins

[modest skiff]

Right, that’s the goal that’s been passed down, an ultimate engineering challenge. I think that’s why it’s the goal

[digital crest]

Water 7’s layout looks similar to Alaburna’s main land

[modest skiff]

I thought in certain depths, it’s not just old buildings but also some ancient looking stuff too. I’ll review later tonight. Maybe you’re right Salmy

[ashen surge]

Redline is also very deformed on the 2d map, it's very wide

[lunar shell]

X marks the spot. Destroying Marijoie => new marinford => fishman island in one go would allow the water to spread and lower the lv of water in all grand line. This might save the day.

assuming it get higher cuz of the mechanism that rise under calm belt de yansu

[ashen surge]

So practically actually destroying the whole Redline seems like a pretty fucking tall order

[formal bridge]

Lol there is arctic there

[digital crest]

It’s moreso older parts of the city that got flooded in because of the Agua Laguna’s but depending on how long ago there could be a possibility of ancient ruins. But idk if we got that much lore into w7

[ashen surge]

Sure, but like that wide bit just under the reverse mountain is almost as long as the whole new world part of grand line

[lunar shell]

Wait wouldnt marinford badly affected by a rise of the water ?

[ashen surge]

redline is 10km tall

[formal bridge]

@lunar shell it got destroyed and is now shifted somewhere else

[digital crest]

everywhere gets rekt besides Mariejoas

[lunar shell]

I should have said " new marinford ".

[primal cargo]

I see, why not, but I'd be surprised if there's a second "will passed down along generations of W7 shipwrights" on top of the Pluton blueprints. Wouldn't it take away from Tom's dream of the sea train too ? The train was the shining hope of a W7 that was otherwise looking doomed

[formal bridge]

Where is new marineford

[digital crest]

opposite side of Sabaody in New World

[lunar shell]

I see ok, that's troubling. One might think new marinford would follow an "order from above" and would be made way above sea lv, if this flooding theory is to be true.

[digital crest]

WG dont give a shit about the Navy tho
They’re just pawns

[formal bridge]

I think luffy will break the red line

[ashen surge]

But what is this flooding theory

[modest skiff]

Sea train floats

[lunar shell]

Very, very usefull pawns. I say they are Knights, even. They are their bigg...one of their best weapon.

[formal bridge]

Not train tracks float

[digital crest]

But if you’re gonna cleanse the world anyways then that would include the pawns. It’s a reset to 0, so the WG rebuilds from scratch after the flood

[lunar shell]

Arlong's sis seems to agree. Although she only see the fishman island get destroyed, Marijoie is coincidentally just above.

[modest skiff]

Right, that’s what I mean. The tracks float

[primal cargo]

Do you think Tom knew about the hypothetical idea that W7 could be turned into a ship, and that gave him the idea of the sea train ?

[digital crest]

Maybe the Sea Train was the just the beginning of a bigger project and Tom disguised it as such to avoid more heat from the government

[formal bridge]

Maybe it was a project to connect all blues

[raw cobalt]

Haters will eventually become lovers

• just give them their fav waifu pillow

[digital crest]

.....and maybe to make all the blues float

[lunar shell]

If you say so. Its true that those " pawn " might feel resentment over such an evil behaviour.

[formal bridge]

Do you think they have other pawns too other than marines

[raw cobalt]

Why are messages getting deleted

[digital crest]

I wouldn’t think they know of this because that seems something top secret between the Gorosei and Imu. Because if the high ranking Marines knew then they would always be worried of the possibility and it would also allow the opportunity for that information to leak and someone wanting to possess that power. If there is such a “doomsday device” then it wouldn’t make sense for Navy to know of it existence because only the Gorosei and Imu have the power

[lunar shell]

Nope. That and the wg agents and that's it.

[primal cargo]

This makes me think that Road Poneglyphs were located in Zou, Wano and Fishman Island, 3 locations that are safe from flooding.

[digital crest]

And Big Mom’s was likely located on Elbaf

[formal bridge]

Whole cake island not fishman

[formal bridge]

We only saw 3 till now

[primal cargo]

Talking about the one from Oden's flashback. The one from WCI was almost certainly moved from somewhere else.
If the flooding theory is correct, that "somewhere else" has to be safe from flooding as well. The tree on Elbaf does fit

[digital crest]

No that’s wrong

• 1 Zou
• 1 Wano (we haven’t seen yet)
• 1 WCI (she likely stole it from Elbaf)
• 1 FMI (this one is missing)

[modest skiff]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using #manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description.

[formal bridge]

But fishman island isn't above ground though

[lunar shell]

To make sure they get in line you know. That would be know only to chief admiral, since he command all other marine, no need to spread the information more.

[digital crest]

it was next to the Noah, so it’s likely meant to be taken on the ship when the flood were to occur. Even so it’s still safe 10,000 leagues under the sea

[lunar shell]

BB is probably going over the location of the missing from FMI. Maybe Shanks make deal with the wg to spread a fake information in order to lure Teach IDK.

[digital crest]

Maybe Kong would know, but I seriously doubt it. I feel like this is hushed up just as much as Imu’s existence especially if the flood device is actually Imu possesing the Water Water fruit

[lunar shell]

Yep so its all good for them. Nothing to fear from a flooding when you're flooded already

[digital crest]

nah that’s silly to think. Shanks has his own agena and Blackbeard isn’t stupid. Plus Morgan writes the news not the WG, so that doesn’t work anyways. Blackbeard is likely heading towards the location of an Ancient Weapon (Alabasta/Pluton) or he’s gone to WCI to get Big Mom’s poneglyph. I think it’s the former of the two

[primal cargo]

Like Mohdoo said in the earlier post, the Marines may know only that "the Celestial Dragons" have the power of floods, without knowing exactly who wields it or how it works

[formal bridge]

We haven't seen fmi poneglyph right

[lunar shell]

"After the rain come the sun" Also Vivi ask for the rain and she gets it. And Imu have picture of Vivi and she isnt destroying it like she did for poseidon, Luffy, and BB.

...Humm...

[formal bridge]

Btw how will he know the content even big mom doesn't know what's written there

[digital crest]

I don’t think it’s that complicated tbh, it seems more like the CDs are being worshipped as divine since they’re on Mariejoas and that’s how the hierarchy has been for 800 years so they follow the rules

[lunar shell]

Morgan write news of marine actions. BB is like " I wont let marine get it ". But w/e. Its just that only a poneglyph would be relevant for him, or a DF, but a df seems weird for me.

[formal bridge]

Btw why do celestial dragons wear that helmet

[digital crest]

Blackbeard studies archaeology as an hobby, I am sure he knows how to read the poneglyphs himself. And if he doesn’t then he can always take Pudding as a hostage and use her third eye. There’s more ways than just Robin

[vestal orbit]

they don't wanna breathe the same air as humans i think

[digital crest]

Morgans writes whatever he wants and whatever caught Blackbeard’s attention is likely what the WG wanted to not be published. It’s likely Pluton related and maybe Vivi has some relation with it by being the “God of the Rain”, but Pluton is still a ship. Imu holding her picture likely means that’s the light she wanted extinguished first

[formal bridge]

So they don't consider themselves humans

[lunar shell]

They dont want to breath the same air as their slave market ( the whole world ). But they can, ask doffy.

[vestal orbit]

ye they don't

[silver sphinx]

This makes a lot of sense. To add to this, gigatification could be so sought after because of the fear of the flood. So that would allow giant people to build bigger structures and survive a flood.

[primal cargo]

I definitely think there's something to be explained. The relationship between the Celestial Dragons and the Marines/WG goes way beyond "respect for their ancestors"
These are people who relentlessly call themselves "Justice" and regularly give speeches about how they genuinely think they are the good guys, and yet they are at the literal beck and call of this community that brings absolutely zero value to the world and cause harm everywhere they go

[lunar shell]

Ok my bad then. Since Shanks vs BB have to happen soon/now, and that Shanks is talking to wg about BB ( yes I started being headcanon here ), I presumed it was linked.

[formal bridge]

Btw can someone tell me if gorosei are more powerful or cd i mean authority wise

[digital crest]

It’s because they’re the Tenruybitto, they are established as the ones who “created” this world that everyone else is living on. Their revered as higher being (Celestials) so regardless of the feelings the Navy displays towards them it’s more about keeping order and progress in the world since it’s established that these shitty individuals founded the world 800 years ago.

[lunar shell]

cd ?

[formal bridge]

Celestial dragon

[digital crest]

Shanks was definitely talking about Luffy, he told them about Luffy’s fruit and him becoming Joyboy in his fight with Kaido. They reacted so late because they weren’t sure if Luffy was even alive or gonna face Kaido. Everyone assumed Luffy was trapped in prison

[lunar shell]

Oh. I'd say CD but idk. Gorosei is working for Imu, CD is enjoying the result of the work. I feel it CD > Gorosei

[lunar shell]

I dont think that for one second ^^

Shanks dont even know about Nika imo.
Shanks is a good guy and wont interfere in any way to Luffy's path.

Remember when Luffy stop Zoro's followers from interfering in his fight against Mihawk, Shanks will show the same respect.

[formal bridge]

Yeah if shanks was so good at plotting he would have killed bb already

[open crown]

Gorosei, because gorosei are the top celestial dragons

[formal bridge]

Why don't they wear same clothes as cd then

[lunar shell]

Good point. Although even without being evil he should have dealt with BB a long time ago ^^( but story is stronger than logic )

[digital crest]

What does have to do with it? Shanks is not interfering in Luffy’s path. He set up the path for Luffy. Shanks most definitely knew about the Nika fruit otherwise he’d had not stop CP9, Shanks obviously didn’t tell Luffy about the full story because he didn’t want to cloud Luffy’s persona thats he’s now a “God” because of eating the fruit and allowed Luffy to grow into his own with the powers.

Shanks moreso helped Luffy by keeping the knowledge of the fruit’s location hidden all this time as Luffy was learning to master it. Shanks essentially bought Luffy more time so he can fully “awaken” Nika

[formal bridge]

Yeah shanks warned wb about bb before already he could have finished bb himself if he was so good at plotting

[lunar shell]

Omg I never understand the Shanks mastermind / evil theory.

What are we talking about here ? Shanks wants to help Luffy so he tell the wg he is Nika so they try to kill him so he awaken the fruit ?

[open crown]

They probably understand more of the world and are less ignorant. There are probably different types of celestial dragons like mjosgard is more nice than the others. Maybe, the gorosei were brought up to be directly under imu while the others remain as a figurehead. They are also much older.

[digital crest]

Nobody is saying Shanks is evil tho...

Shanks obviously told them because he knows now Luffy is ready to handle the WG and already mastered the fruit. That’s why Shanks says “Luffy, I’ll see you soon”. He probably is gonna meet Luffy soon and ally together against the WG.

[formal bridge]

Shanks could have trained luffy if he knew about fruit

[primal cargo]

But the World Government isn't a sect. The world, and the Navy, are full of free thinkers who obviously understand the implications of the CD's hold on the world (slavery and genocide)
And the Navy is a very centralised organisation. Let's look at Sengoku. He was the supreme commander of the Navy. Imagine if he had declared that "from now on, the Navy will keep maintaining the peace in the name of the World Government, but will no longer obey the Celestial Dragons". What could have stopped that from happening ? Surely Sengoku is not some fanatic that would just not notice that the CDs are a problem.
So, there's two ways this can go. 1, the CDs have a secret means of pressure over everyone else, like in the flooding theory. 2, there is a rational reason why the CDs' presence is necessary to the world, that we don't know yet.

[formal bridge]

Kong was

[modest skiff]

I get where you’re coming from, but royal families have to hide their daughters because they might get kidnapped and raped without consequence. It’s too egregious. I don’t buy the idea this is from reverence. It is fear

[formal bridge]

Can someone decrease the countdown back to 20 sec in chat
I am not good at typing long paragraphs

[modest skiff]

People were typing too many brief messages when it was 20s

[lunar shell]

Shanks evil theory are sometimes link to the mastermind thing so idk dude.

So here its : Shanks mastermind set up a whole chain of event telling the wg that Luffy is Nika so they kill him so that boom Luffy trigger the awakening and met him.

I disagree, why : What does this tell about Shanks ? He is not inclined to let the freedom prevail ? He is acting like Teach is, plotting, fooling, controlling. That disengage him from being a legit role model for Luffy, so Luffy goal would be fake all along. So this whole story is meaningless all along ?

To further express my feeling about this I'd have to talk about a hare tale but I dont want to risk a ban here xD

[formal bridge]

Btw what do you think shanks asked roger after he came back from laughtale

[tardy dune]

Have a theory that luffy already knows what his df that's why he's going to all sh*tty things, like roaming around and make his self look like a coward lmao

[lunar shell]

Maybe the true story links to shanks own story ( his parents ) ? Idk, what is your thinking

[open crown]

this makes no sense whatsoever

[digital crest]

@formal bridge No, were you not reading these last few chapters? It literally states the fruit becomes more powerful through the user’s will of bringing smiles to others and his own imagination. Shanks training Luffy before awakening actually hinders that process. Luffy needed to reach his own conclusions, now it’s possible for Shanks get involved because Luffy reached that point of “Nirvana”

@primal cargo I think it’s the latter, the CD are needed from some particular reason and as @modest skiff stated fear is an attribute of maintaining that balance. Nobody wants to be the person to end the system of the world, nobody for all this time in the Navy was willing to be a martyr. I do think it’s more so in relation that the CDs are needed for something in particular and I don’t think it’s the flood. Imo the flood or water water fruit is something exclusive only to the Gorosei and Imu as it’s a world changing development. It would be impossible to keep that secret if other people knew of its existence.

@lunar shell We don’t know if Shanks even originally intended Luffy to eat the Gomu Gomu, even Shanks tells Rayleigh, “He betted on the next generation.” Shanks is leading Luffy on a path that actually fits Shanks and possibly Roger’s agenda of fighting the WG. Shanks being a mastermind could be moreso he has all the cards and knowledge of the circumstances and is setting things into motion for Luffy’s ascension. BB on the other hand is the one opposing that great change. So it’s entirely different approached than just being “evil”

[formal bridge]

Shanks was close to roger so maybe he was asking why he was surrendering to marines

[formal bridge]

Why did shanks keep it in open rather than keeping it in his ship it's definitely because he didn't know true power of the fruit.

[digital crest]

Because why would he keep it alone? Shanks kept it near because it was that important

[lunar shell]

ooook so here is what I think here. You will see that we are really far apart.

The gomu is able to use haki to inspire people ( think of it as a voice of all thing, you dont hear it, but without knowing it, you are affected by it ), he use it on shanks to rescue him, and use it on luffy so that he eat him ||( actually for me its farther than this, the fruit create a butterfly effect and setting chain of event that lead to him being eaten by luffy but nvm that ) ||

Shanks doesnt know about Nika at all, he only bet on Luffy cuz of what Luffy says, that remind him of Roger.

Shanks wont allow Luffy adventure to be carried in any way. Luffy wont have that. Shanks wont have that. Its not their way at all.

[lunar shell]

That's weak story plot. That doesnt reveal anything on Shanks, and that weird Shanks ask that, and that's weird he cry about it. I mean the reason Roger surrender is joyful.

[formal bridge]

Df be like Just According to Keikaku

[lunar shell]

Keikaku D.ori

[digital crest]

No you’re thinking too deeply about it, the Gomu Gomu is just a rubber fruit if not awakened. Luffy’s haki developed over time and he was born with the King’s Will and he’s got the Luck with the Will of D. These are all things pre established in the story prior to Wano.

Luffy’s awakening is being influenced with haki because of the heights he himself reached on his own adventure. And Shanks most definitely knew about the Nika fruit because he intercepted from Who’s Who and it’s implied that WW figured it all out when he was in prison and learned about Nika. That’s why he held a grudge against Shanks because the Red Haired pirates knew the situation and avoided Who’s Who from eating it or handing it over to the Gorosei

[formal bridge]

You do know who's who already had df

[digital crest]

12 years ago he apparently didn’t because iirc Who’s Who said that Shanks stole that fruit from him and it was coming across that he was planning on eating it

[formal bridge]

Most of cipher pol has eaten df remember

[digital crest]

We don’t anything about the CP9 group from 12 years ago tho.

[lunar shell]

"just" a rubber fruit, that conveniently goes fruit to fruit when user dies. That " escape " the over-controlling wg for 800 damn years.

Look I'll go even more crazy here, still telling what I think : Nika's will is so strong that it has a mind on its own, he is the one releasing conqueror when Luffy first lose to Kaido, he is the one talking to momo using voice of all thing, and inspiring submarine to rescue him / Luffy. He is the one Smiling while druming the hearth and waking up Luffy. Luffy's haki being strong and refined enought.

Who's who is mad by Shanks stealing the fruit all the same. In my book its the fruit calling Shanks rather than Shanks knowing about it. Shanks wasnt here 350y ago, in this other time when Gomu needed rescue. ( that's an eg ofc )

[gentle lantern]

he’s sides with the world government.

[lunar shell]

liar.

[digital crest]

Both those things can be true mutually tho...The Gomu Gomu could potentially have a mind of its own and we see after Luffy eats the fruit his laugh and smile onomatopoeias change to “Nika” as well. I think its a mixture of both Shanks knowing because he does in fact know a lot more than leading on, similar to Blackbeard and the Gomu has something more special about it than just Nika’s will.

[lunar shell]

Yep but you know, its going to be easy to see if my story is right or not. Cuz if I'm right, when is whole thing is over, we will have a talk between momo and luffy, momo asking : how could you talk to me at that time ? -when luffy is underwater and he tell momo he will beat kaido-
Luffy answering : what ? I dont recall.

[gentle lantern]

shanks is sided with the world government. don’t ask how I know.

[lunar shell]

#manga-theories message

[digital crest]

Luffy’s will can be persistent enough that he was able to use the VOAT and communicate his subconscious intentions to Momo. Remember will plays a big factor in all this

[gentle lantern]

Oh did you.

[lunar shell]

sure sure, its just not what I think. But if I'm wrong then its the only remaining possibility so ^^
Luffy talking to momo while being unconscious with his own will works also, it was what I believed before I learned about the Nika thing. /oh wait no I thought it was joy boy/

[digital crest]

I can be more convinced of Nika having a direct influence if we see at some point in this fight with Kaido that Luffy loses “control”. Because this unconscious will scenario with Nika would actually suggest as type of possession

[lunar shell]

Yes. Nika being able to use haki related ability when Luffy is unconscious basically.

[digital crest]

Yeah that would be Nika possessing Luffy and I doubt Oda’s gone that route. It’s moreso inheriting wills

[modest skiff]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using #manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description.

[lunar shell]

Isnt inheriting a will being possessed by it ?

[digital crest]

not even close, it’s just the passing of the torch. Entirely separate than possession

[lunar shell]

Fair enough. Anyway, this will be solved soon as I said. in 10 chaps or so.

[stone moss]

We got Luffy and Marco both on Wano right now... two biggest subjects of interest for Weevil... is it possible Weevil shows up after the raid like Kuma did on Thriller Bark? I'm not sure who could stop him though.

[modest skiff]

I will type this up in more detail when I get home to add it to my wider theory regarding sea level, but briefly:

I believe Imu convinced countries to rally against the AK by saying the AK had powers that are too dangerous and then framed the AK for a travesty, which allowed for a united attack to overthrow the AK. Once that happened, suddenly the CDs had that same dangerous power at their disposal and then used it to intimidate by force.

[digital crest]

Well that could be the case but that would likely be during the Void Century era. You have to remember there’s seemingly a lot of hush hush going around especially in Mariejoas, more importantly to what the Gorosei know. The CDs themselves are all pompous idiots and the Navy is definitely very hot headed. It would seem more like Imu and the Elders are the only ones to fathom the create power that is truly possessed. And what I believe is the more likely possibility is that Imu herself is the one that controls the flooding capabilities. So whether it stems from Godly powers related to the Eve Tree or its simply a Water DF, it goes more without saying that nobody knows of Imu’s existence. So therefore it’s even less likely to know of the existence of flooding.

[lunar shell]

Hum. But Doffy knows about " the secret weapon of the CDs " right ? That would suggest that at least some CD ( they are not all pompous idiots, some are just pompous ^^ ) know about this flooding thing or that there are two secret weapons.

I'd say there is only one, and therefore Imu, the gorosei, and some involved CD know about it.

Not that it changes really anything.

[proven monolith]

why does everyone that knows the secrets of the void century or Celestial dragons keep it a secret i wonder

[lunar shell]

Maybe because what you'd say would vanish in disbelief, and what you are vanish from history.

Y so Vivi wants the war to stop so she yells and yells and there is the rain and boom the war stop. I say Imu is the same and flooded the whole thing yk...

Idk this vivi - imu thing really trigger me.

[proven monolith]

Rayleigh said he would tell them but it really was too soon.

And they might come to a different decision than they did

[neat vessel]

Vivi might be the one who could awaken ancient weapon pluton

[proven monolith]

yeah she is definitely connected.

[lunar shell]

sure sure but she is not with the other pictures yk, it is kept close to imu..

[neat vessel]

Yeah she's the first she one's to eliminate

[proven monolith]

Crocodile seemed positive it was in Alabasta. He had to have known some how for sure

[lunar shell]

That would explain the Sabo thing, he would try and protect Vivi..

But idk..
I have a feeling Vivi and Imu are related...

[proven monolith]

out of the 20 countries that allied with the WG 800 years ago, Alabasta betrayed them and did not move to the holy land

[neat vessel]

• if you look at enels coverpage where he is looking at the hieroglyphs on the wall

You can see the 3 ancient weapons.
Giant creatures - poseidon
Giant ship - pluton.
There was also a Giant sun but I'm not too sure what that could be

[proven monolith]

so i am sure he hates the Nefatari famiy a lot

[neat vessel]

• we know the threat shirahoshi poses is being poseidon.

• don't think imu would have a pic of a non sentient ship so there's no need for a pluton pic to be there

• so why wouldn't Uranus which holds the same level of power be among those pictures

[lunar shell]

this ?

[neat vessel]

And Uranus has to be something that blackbeard or imu gets control of.

So it can't be momonouske. Its gotta be something that blackbeard doesn't have to torture to use

[proven monolith]

i think there are 4 Gods but not sure

[neat vessel]

I'm strongly convinced that Robin is a hito hito no mi user like luffy and chopper. Now that I think about it her fruit is too weird to be just a paramecia

[proven monolith]

true

[merry sparrow]

That is actually an interesting point

[lunar shell]

Imu is from one of the 20 kingdom right ?

[proven monolith]

Nico and Nika sound too much alike. I think there is a connection

[neat vessel]

• oda said bb pirates were chasing fruits

• chopper got scared and said I'm gonna be targeted and usopp said no one wants choppers fruit.

• I believe the actual irony is that the one fruit bb deep down wants is choppers fruit

• I say this because I believe bb was born a freak with a chimera disorder. And believed he wasn't human and thought he was a monster.

• I believe the model of choppers fruit is hito hito no mi model chimera.

[proven monolith]

no i don't think so.

[lunar shell]

I say she is from the Neferarti one yk. Maybe she is outraged by something Zunesha did and she flood the whole thing up to stop the war.

[proven monolith]

i thought they had confirmed the Alabasta king was the only one who backed out of the 20 kingdom alliance..

[proven monolith]

but that is a pretty good theory..maybe the King didn't join but the Queen did

[cerulean trout]

What does imu want from vivi?

[proven monolith]

i think she is one of the only "lights" left that could bring Imu down

[neat vessel]

Has anyone noticed the parallels between oden and rocks.

Oden took the scabbards to take down the dragons kaidou and orochi who were oppressing oppressing world and ultimately failed and died.

Rocks took the rocks pirates to take down the celestial dragons and imu who are oppressing the world and ultimately lost and died.

Oden only chose to become king of the world because wano was forced into a corner by orochi.

Odens son chose a different path to oden. Not much like oden but will become shogun in his place and do what oden couldn't do.

3 speculations I wanna make based on this.

• rocks original dream like oden wasn't to become king of the world/shogun and was more linked to freedom

• odens son is trying to take down kaidou in his place. Potentially rocks son is trying to take down imu in his place.

[cerulean trout]

I think we have to look at some foreshadowing why vivi is so important bc oda prob gave us the hints already

[neat vessel]

• if momo or vivi is Uranus imma be pissed. Essentially means nobody else is gonna be able to use the ancient weapons except luffy.

[proven monolith]

there is so much to go through but the last theory is that she is the God of rain.Luffy God of Sun .Shirahoshi God of the Forest and someone God of the earth

[neat vessel]

Would God of the forest mean their powers are related to nature

[cerulean trout]

Thats silly “god of rain” doesnt even make sense

[proven monolith]

its just a theory i read a few days ago

[neat vessel]

Tbh I still think dragon is a wind logia. And as for imu either a water or plant logia/mythical zoan

[lunar shell]

She's not sure about it, she is just her only link to her humanity cuz Vivi is her great great daughter and they are looking alike.

[proven monolith]

its about the 4 Gods that the Shandorians worship

[cerulean trout]

I think its an awakaened weather dragon zoan, bc he does have highest bounty in world rn so his fruit is most def awakened

[proven monolith]

its said that a dragon always brings storm clouds.

[neat vessel]

3 reasons so far why I strongly think it's a logia

• dragon just like Ace came to a town and the climate of said town changed dramatically.

Ace came to drum and it didn't snow
Dragon came to goa and there was fierce wind across city.

• dragon had wind coming of his body as if he was literally made of wind on the granma.

• a wind logia is too iconic a power to not exist in one piece. Just like an earth logia tbh

[proven monolith]

that sounds about right

[cerulean trout]

But how would that even look in a fight?

[neat vessel]

A wind logia. Just imagine any top tier wind user in anime tbh. Yuno for one

Magellan makes poison dragons. I'm sure someone of dragons calibre can make dragons eagles arrows shit like that

And the scale is crazy. The versatility of the power is incredible.

[proven monolith]

i love Yuno so much..but even if anime starts back up for that series, i still prefer One piece..

Dragon has to be one seriously dangerous character

[neat vessel]

• I really wonder what kind of character he is gonna be tbh.

• his agenda is freedom. We see akainu is absolute constantly aggressive and angry. Aokiji cool headed and lazy and chill. Kizaru laid back and unsure.

How is dragon gonna be is he gonna be goofy I'm not really sure what oda has in store for this guy in an extended setting

• a character who embodies freedom should be a bit more of a free spirit than dragon dude seems to stuckup

[obsidian yoke]

I think Katakuri will leave big mom's crew to form his own

[proven monolith]

not sure but he seem to do just whatever he wants. But maybe he just has too many secrets and plans ready to launch at at the right time

[obsidian yoke]

Similar to white beard he will refer to all future crew mates as his siblings

[proven monolith]

i also think he was protecting Luffy by not letting anyone know he was his son..Luffy would have been hunted and killed just like they did to Rogers wife and child

[neat vessel]

Also have you heard the theory that dfs choose the person who suits the user.

And the reason bb can eat 3 fruits is because he has 3 souls in his body. Like rocks and someone else.

And that bb has eaten a kraken fruit which gives him 3 hearts to support 3 people.

But the fruits of the yami yami no mi and the gura gura have not chosen teach and he is unaware of this. He believes the yami yami no mi chose him.

But the yami chose rocks and the gura chose the other guy

[proven monolith]

i am scared of BB for some reason..for real

[neat vessel]

And the reason why the kraken fruit chose bb is because octopus have no BACKBONE.
BACKBONE is euphemism for grit and courage. Essentially saying the real teach is a coward

[proven monolith]

BB is stronger version of Orochi..lol

[neat vessel]

I actually think orochi is foreshadowing to bb. I believe the 2 people in blackbeard are a man and woman

[proven monolith]

both cowards full of fear and have lust for power

creepy no good snakes

[ebon escarp]

Maybe enel is earth

[proven monolith]

he sure did want endless vearth/earth

Vivi prayed for rain..Shirahoshi wanted to go to the forest

[pure raven]

Bb isn’t a coward, he’s just has a realistic reaction to most stuff

[agile tangle]

I mean that's kinda vague

[idle dew]

@proven monolith is it my WiFi or do you just have no pfp

[pure raven]

Its yo wifi

[idle dew]

Na stop the cap

[proven monolith]

sorry i had to take a break.. that was referring to a theory i saw on reddit or somewhere. That the Shandorians worshiped 4 Gods:. the Sun God, Forest God, Rain God and Earth God

they sad Luffy was the sun god Shirahoshi was forest god and Vivi was rain God and was uncertain who the earth God was

i think they were trying too say that those Gods were the ones over the ancient kingdom or the previous Celestial beings that ruled hundreds of years ago before being over thrown

[burnt garden]

So shandorians worshipped Nika (previous joyboy or other ) and other elemental gods ( fruit users or the real deal that got got transformed into devil fruits), for that reason the WG exterminated them

[silver sphinx]

Were Shandorians exterminated?

[burnt garden]

Big mom said that King was the last of their kind

[sharp surge]

wyper exists so no ig

[burnt garden]

did wyper have the flames on his back?

[silver sphinx]

....King isn’t shandorian....he’s lunarian.

[sharp surge]

lunarians are the ones with flames. they were once exterminated, leaving king (alber) the sole survivor

[thorny cedar]

IMU IS THE CINNAMON STICK FROM APPLE JACKS FORESHADOWING!!! THE APPLE IS GOLD ROGER BOTH LEADERS OF EACH FACTION

[silver sphinx]

Alber? Is that his real name?

[sharp surge]

yes

[lunar shell]

#manga-theories message xD

[proven monolith]

maybe that why Shandorians rang the Golden Bell. They did say it was so their ancestors could find their way back and their soul would enter the sacred trees. Maybe thats how their will transferred into fruit that grew from the sacred trees.

[silver sphinx]

Caribou god of the earth?

[lunar shell]

Interesting !

[proven monolith]

i shared that theory a few months ago but not sure if anyone thought much of it..but to me it raises a lot of questions

[lunar shell]

apple uh ? That's intersting cuz Eris, God of hate ( Imu = hate ) is strongly linked to a golden apple

[thorny cedar]

yeahh me and oda thought of it one night drinking 😂

[lunar shell]

That explain it all

[proven monolith]

Luffy rang the golden bell for the 1st time in centuries on Skypeia. Then later at the Poneglyph, Robin told the Shandorian Chief that their duty was fulfilled now..wonder why

[lunar shell]

In this telling, Eris becomes something of a patron saint of chaotic creation:

I am chaos. I am the substance from which your artists and scientists build rhythms. I am the spirit with which your children and clowns laugh in happy anarchy. I am chaos. I am alive, and I tell you that you are free

[proven monolith]

just read up on that, very intersting

[lunar shell]

Y but you can find link to one piece with all mythology its kinda crazy. I wouldn’t dwell on it

[proven monolith]

yeah there is a lot

[proven monolith]

i had a theory for a while that the D stood for Devas

[brisk thicket]

most of the time its just very loose inspiration

[proven monolith]

They are seen as celestial beings but not eternal beings. just higher than human and trapped in a cycle of suffering

[proven monolith]

yeah i nearly lost my mind trying to read that stuff. i had to stop and give up tying to figure any of it out

[proud tree]

Any chance this space pirate in Enels cover Story (chapter 445) is a space dog Mink?

He would not go Sulong , because he wears the spacesuit.

[idle dew]

Greenbulls fruit is a zoan that turns him into a literal plant (he does photosynthesis)

[idle dew]

Possibly

[jade kernel]

what makes you think that?

[pure raven]

Blackbeard has hito hito model: moon god (in Japanese)
moon god is the twin brother of sun god who was banished after he committed a crime (stole something) so not many people know about him
blackbeard takes away people's freedom with his fruit (sucks them in), which can be a duality to luffy who brings freedom
blackbeard also steals fruits from people
moon god has no imagination unlike sun god which is why bb steals powers instead of making his own powers or abilities

[sharp surge]

i still don’t think that’s a very good explanation for why he has 3 skulls on his jolly roger or why he can wield multiple fruits to begin with.

[pure raven]

sun god and moon god could correlate with zeus and hades
hades is the ruler of the underworld
cerebrus (dog with 3 heads) is gatekeeper of the underworld
its just a theory though take it with a grain of salt

[sharp surge]

that’s the theory i’m more of a fan of, the one where blackbeard is actually 3 people, and that the way that he uses one fruit in each hand is cuz he absorbed his twin with the yami yami no mi, which gives the impression that he has a power in each hand. this is why you see three different versions of blackbeard, each with different amounts of gaps in their teeth

[naive wolf]

i prefer Ussop being the god of earth:o

[vestal moth]

There are two main probabilities why Blackbeard might set sail to WCI:

1. Definitely he knows about the Red poneglyph and he might seek to get his hands on it.
2. Capture Pudding or Steal her devil fruit. Remember Kaido asked Big Mom if her daughter was able to read poneglyph. But her third eye was not yet capable. For Blackbeard to reach Laugh Tale, he needs someone who can read poneglyph.

what do you guys think of it?

[vestal moth]

The last point Rocks son is trying to take down Imu. Maybe another reason for Dragon to be Rocks son. As he is opposing World Government

[prime magnet]

Blackbeard is god of earth and “sky”(also mean space,moon, etc) Luffy and X are god sun and rain(weather) and they we be the ones in the end that fight against him

[vestal orbit]

x drake?

[earnest pilot]

[junior cape]

I think X Drake will awaken his powers either during the rest of the raid or shortly after. I make this claim based on the fact that he's gone through a comparable series of events to Luffy, who also awakened their fruit. Specifically, losses. Both Luffy and Drake have been in several severe confrontations during the raid, and both have taken wins and losses. For Luffy, it was The Numbers, then some fodder, then Kaido/BM, which ended in a knockout, then Kaido again, ending in another knockout, followed by Kaido AGAIN, resulting in his 3rd knockout of the raid, which led to him awakening his fruit, and Luffy V Kaido round 5 (Kuri, rooftop, rooftop, rooftop, rooftop). For Drake, it started in Kuri again, at the bathhouse with Sanji where they skirmished until they came to a draw, followed by Drake vs WW and Queen where Drake lost, but no knockout, followed by Drake vs Apoo and fodder (Freeze Tag), then Apoo/Drake vs CP0 with a knockout, then Drake vs CP0 again with a second knockout, but not before fatally wounding Bowler Hat.

If Drake manages to get up again, after being beaten as brutally as he has (and he has been beaten badly), I believe it will be because he will have awakened his powers due to trying to continue fighting.

[neat vessel]

All I'm saying is that how could someone be rocks son and be working for the wg or tryna be a balancer and talking it up with the gorosei

• you don't see momo tryna talk it up with kaidou and orochi tryna create balance with them

[junior cape]

Yeah but that's because Momo knows those two to be irredeemable.

[neat vessel]

What and imu and the gorosei arent

They have done 100 times worse what kaidou and orochi did. Over an 800 year period. Purged an entire race how many Fisher tigers do you think died in that time frame.

It doesn't matter how rocks went about tryna take then down anybody would sympathise with his cause and just go about it in a slightly less evil way

[neat vessel]

Theory:

Shirahoshi journey started at the ocean floor and will end in goa forest. Luffy will show her goa forest at the end of the series.

Uranus journey will start in goa forest and end at the ocean floor.

[lyric berry]

Luffy is the only god in OP

[junior cape]

Factually wrong, Usopp exists.

[lyric berry]

God fruit* then

[junior cape]

Sengoku is literally called "The Golden Buddha". His devil fruit is literally the Hito Hito no Mi: Golden Buddha. Wrong again.

[neat vessel]

Marshall d teach is not a good final villain in one piece. Dudes a coward. What good series ends with the final villain being a coward

[lyric berry]

You know Buddha isn’t a god right

[junior cape]

You know he's a mythical figure revered as one, right?

[lyric berry]

That doesn’t make him one

[covert comet]

Luffy's eyebrows look like Wukong's crown

[latent zodiac]

You think kaido has been awakened for a long time now?

[covert comet]

yea

[latent zodiac]

Id like to imagine his fruit was like luffy. Where people thought he was useless

Then one day he just became a dragon

[agile tangle]

Yea I saw a theory about that by 333vil

[torpid mist]

Daifuku doesnt have a fruit. Daifuku's belt ate the genie fruit. that's why he has to rub it to activate, and why it has a whole light up sequence when activated

[formal bridge]

He has eaten Hoya Hoya no Mi

[torpid mist]

then how do u explain the belt

[formal bridge]

He just used it doesn't mean he can't use from somewhere else remember luffy's cloth stretch too and buggys clothes

[lime cape]

🤔 Luffy's awakening is make reality a rubber hose animation

[ashen surge]

I hope the animators will have ample time to draw that

[naive wolf]

do you think this is foreshadowing of it? #also-manga message

[ashen surge]

New Kama Land. jeez

[naive wolf]

i mean micky mouse use rubber hose animation

dunno the story of animation but those are the pilars of it, the simplicity of make some random animal into weird stretching, so maybe Oda planned to make a tribute to those creators somewhere on his story from the mere start (just hypothetical)

or at least it was clear on his mind during impel down

oda is a joke

[jade wagon]

There has been many budhas

[glass skiff]

Theroy on the nature of df.
The strongest weapon in onepeice is information and history If you knew the truth about certain fruits you can maximize there power such as what bb did when he saw the yami yami. Everyone saw him as rubber Luffy so thats how he based his powers g2 - g4 are all based off of the logic of rubber g2 blood doping G3 bone balloon. My point is that I think what Luffy is doing now as nika he could have always done the body morph stuff not changing everything to rubber

[neat vessel]

Thing is I think g4 is a hybrid form

[glass skiff]

No he blows air into his muscles

[neat vessel]

Not all the time. He just jumped into g4 against the number

And he switched between snakeman and boundman seamlessly.

Based on your logic he would have to blow in his muscles to change from that skinny mode to the bigger mode.

And another thing. His fruit works alot like choppers. Choppers forms are hybrid forms.

He maximises certain parts of his body. Just like luffy does

[glass skiff]

He was closer to awakening it

[neat vessel]

Awakening isn't some gradual thing. It's literally like a switch. You don't have it and then you have it.

You use the fruit until the meters full and then once its full a switch turns on and you have awakening

[neat vessel]

Robin is also definitely a hito hito no mi mythical zoan in my mind aswell

[glass skiff]

Who would she be tho

[naive wolf]

that is a fair assumption but not clearly stated; like why not been progressing until you reach your maxim and then the switch, not just a regular normie df until bang! "awaken" (imo ofcourse)

when is mentionated awakening on the manga they not always refering same thing like in which part katakuri was using awakening and where not?, it was really mixed until luffy figure it out, so in my mind, the df users acquire some knowlegde of the fruit and keep gradually learning of their own df, until they realize the final step to awakening; and then used in many ways never thought before, i prolly wrong

[prime bluff]

I have a theory
It's about oda
Oda real name is money d luffy
Why this name because the more manga he strech the more money he makes

[lunar shell]

Nice. Chance are hight its linked to D of one piece. I mean it is already.

[pure raven]

The orginal User of Gomu Gomu no is Toei.
Now they got Awakening that's why even streching more lately

[prime bluff]

We got gorosei five elders in the toei company

[lime cape]

nop

[red nacelle]

I have a speculation. First of all i will never believe that Shanks is a rat. Second its obvious that he know a whole lot about everything.

Ok, so maybe he did go to the gorosei and told them about how luffy has the nika fruit and that he may awaken it, and since they obviously are afraid of this fruit they issued the order to kill Luffy to CP0.

But maybe Shanks told them that, in order for them to send Vegapunk to Wano in order to either extract the lineage factor and/or the fruit itself. Maybe Shanks has Vegapunk on his side. Maybe that's what those WG ships were. Maybe he has something to inform the crew I don't know. I just know that we have to meet him somewhere.

Now i have 2 things that dont sit well with this speculation.

1. why would vegapunk care to explain things to Luffy and what would he say.
2. this one doesn't make sense whether the speculation is true or not. Since the gorosei know that Shanks stole the fruit, why do they keep a good relationship with him?

This is just a speculation, not a theory. A can't base it on anything.

[ashen surge]

I believe Shanks found about the gum gum = nika thing much later on and only after told Gorosei he stole the fruit. Did Gorosei know before that Shanks stole the fruit?

[spark relic]

Yes they did

[slate wharf]

i forgor if who's who said it last time, but i think it's common sense that they know who stole the df since ofc they will interrogate the one who is guarding it

[ashen surge]

source

[willow plaza]

Do any of you still think BB could come to wano to get kaidos fruit

[spark relic]

Who's Who was tasked with protecting the fruit... We know that who's who was a member of CP9 at the time and CP9 is a body that works for the WG... Therefore the WG got the fruit and had it stolen @ashen surge

[ashen surge]

And? That doesn't mean Who's Who told who stole it or that information reached the Gorosei

[slate wharf]

Why would who's who will even hesitate on telling who's the one who stole the df kekw

[spark relic]

Lol... The Gorosei are the second in command of the world government, ofc they will know... That's why who's who was imprisoned

[ashen surge]

So the claim that gorosei knew that Shanks stole the fruit is only headcanon and not in the text

[slate wharf]

ye, he was imprisoned and tried to escape after hearing info about the fruit on a random guard iirc

[ashen surge]

No, he escaped since the guards who told him about Nika vanished and he was afraid he's next.

[slate wharf]

it's more likely than not. but ye it is

[willow plaza]

Kaido probably assisted the escape

[ashen surge]

Why would Kaido help some random denounced cp9 agent to escape

[willow plaza]

Cuz he was betrayed by the WG, maybe believed kaido was sun god nika

[ashen surge]

How does an imprisoned spy gets to negotiate with Kaidou about busting him out

[willow plaza]

Kaido has been imprisoned several times

[ashen surge]

C'mon, he was cp9, a true believer to the wg and accepted his punishment head on until he was afraid that's he's gonna be offed just because he heard a fairy tale about Nika. He could've escaped any time but probably chose not to.

[spark relic]

It doesn't have to be in the text... It's clear that they know... Who else would order a CP9 agent to be imprisoned... Kong could easily do that tho but the gorosei are the ones responsible for everything, Kong reports to them do there's no way that Kong will be the one who imprisoned him... And why the hell wouldn't the WG know that something as important as the Nika fruit has been stolen

[ashen surge]

I'm only arguing about if they knew it was Shanks.

[willow plaza]

Wouldn't shanks' straw hat give away who had the Nika fruit cuz he stole it from whos who

[naive wolf]

so you are saying cp9 members are brainwashed and serve WG under any circustance whatsoever?

[ashen surge]

They don't have to be brainwashed, Lucci clearly showed that he believes in the absolute justice and is willing to go as far as necessary

[formal bridge]

I wasn't specified who stole it. From who's who pov

[spark relic]

And I'm saying they did... There's no way that the news wouldn't have gotten to them... It's not like Who's who was the only one guarding the fruit?

[ashen surge]

You're really overestimating efficiency how information travels in a world of landline telephones and inked letters.

[willow plaza]

Btw zoans having wills of their own confirms BB has a zoan

[naive wolf]

so what who's who could win lying about who steals the df? self freedom?

[formal bridge]

Maybe they wanted to keep it lowkey that's why they ordered cipher pol it's never said navy was protecting the fruit

[formal bridge]

Bro they have video call too

[ashen surge]

You're missing a crucial point: Was he even asked? Did WG actually care?

[willow plaza]

It could have been Im's direct order

[naive wolf]

gorosei were desperately to catch that fruit for like 8 centuries

[formal bridge]

Even if he told them shanks wasn't some weakass pirate

[slate mirage]

you're not considering if shanks took it without revealing himself

[ashen surge]

Well Who's Who knew

[slate mirage]

nvm then. the wg definetly knew who stole it

[formal bridge]

He could have know after luffy became pirate

[ashen surge]

But fair, maybe Who's Who found about it who stole the fruit only later on as well.

[spark relic]

The Navy is also a body of the WG, they could still order them to keep it secret... Don't forget that it's what they did for Rocks

[formal bridge]

It's not like garp would tell his grandson ate a df

[ashen surge]

But anyway, WG is so badly functioning goverment body I wouldn't be at all surprised if the info never reached the Gorosei through all the hoops and loops

[spark relic]

Bruv, it's the WG we're talking about, if one of their agents knows who stole the fruit why wouldn't they know? The world government are the ones who keep things secret from the world not the other way around

[formal bridge]

They couldn't have hushed up rocks but they can hush a df that didn't cause any damage

[formal bridge]

You are assuming that only if agent knew it what if he didn't and only knew after luffy became pirate

[ashen surge]

Even Who's Who was CP9, he's a soldier who responds to his supervisor, that supervisor passes the information upstairs and so-on, there are so many levels of hierarchy in there that's inevitable that some of the stuff is lost in the process

"CP9 agent Who's Who was tasked to guard the Gomu-Gomu Fruit but the Red Haired Pirates attacked the ship and stole the fruit in process" is really easily compressed to "CP9 agent Who's Who failed his mission"

[formal bridge]

Who's who only knew the fruit was stolen but not by whom he came to know about it after luffy became pirate

[naive wolf]

also someone was telling the gomu fruit was meant to Who's who to eat it, i don't think so; WG prolly want to put in a frozen box for eternity that df, instead of give them to one random agent

[formal bridge]

Yeah or give it to imu sama

[spark relic]

The CP9 report directly to the Gorosei... They're a secret organization even among the rest of the world government they aren't like other cipher pols... Kong doesn't even need to report to the Gorosei because he wasn't the one who created the cp9

[naive wolf]

nah, i believe who's who fights Shanks and lost

[slate mirage]

you're stretching

[formal bridge]

"You believe" not you know that's the difference

[ashen surge]

If Gorosei was aware of everything every single soldier in navy is doing and what is their favorite food, they'd be dead before getting through one year of reports.

[formal bridge]

Actually all cipher pol report to gorosei not marines that's why S.W.O.R.D was created

[ashen surge]

Yes but even CP9 has their chiefs who takes care of business outside of the group

[slate mirage]

someone stole a fruit from one of their top agents. it's obvious they would want to know who stole it

[spark relic]

🤦‍♂️ wtf my man... How do you compare such trivial issues with a fruit that the WG has been chasing for over 800yrs???

[naive wolf]

yet i feel you guys are understimating WG

[ashen surge]

Study about the concept of uchi-soto which is a japanese thing and you will understand how organizations in japanese fiction work

[slate wharf]

There is literally no reason to remove who's who from cp9 if he is not guarding the fruit at that time. He was guarding it when shanks crew got there, bonk them, and stole it

[formal bridge]

And you are underestimating shanks crew

[slate mirage]

same. i wish we would know more about them

[spark relic]

Exactly, Thank you my man... I don't know why Keturin is just being adamant

[spark relic]

They are

[ashen surge]

Because what's in the story and how the WG has functioned so far implies that Who's Who never spilled the beans about who stole the fruit - if he even knew who it was in the first place and only learned it some time later -, and even if he did, that info did not travel to Goroseis ears

[formal bridge]

Do you guys seriously think shanks crew can't steal stealthily from a cp9 agent without them knowing

[spark relic]

His statement isn't

Okay lemme ask you @ashen surge

[ashen surge]

In Enies Lobby Lucci straight out killed Nero himself, do you think he included that into his report?

[formal bridge]

He couldn't because cp9 was running from navy remember

[ashen surge]

What / Oh right, the cover stories

[formal bridge]

After enies lobby arc

[spark relic]

That's a different issue... There was a battle between the CP9 and the straw hats, people are not guaranteed to live through battles... He used it to his advantage

Why was who's who imprisoned @ashen surge?

[ashen surge]

Because he failed a mission as a CP9 operative and that is not tolerated in the organization. People who fail are imprisoned or killed because they are a liability to the WG

[naive wolf]

explain how who's who receive the order to go for that fruit on the first place if it was not bec gorosei knew how important it was; i guess it may be Shank's being stealthily (i don't even remember any hints about Shanks work by that way, yet it is plausible), but there are no evidence that who's who zip his mouth and accept the hard punishment without argue; also you are saying who's who only realize about Shank's being the df stealer after Luffy became pirate, but how that heck who's who make that link, it is was posted on Big news paper that Shank's went round East Blue to gift the mythical zoan to a mere kid: that is only for us readers to know

[spark relic]

Exactly... What mission did he fail?

[naive wolf]

Lucci was promoted to aigis 0

[spark relic]

Hold on my man @naive wolf... I don't even want to counter him yet with all that yet because there are a lot of points against what he said

[ashen surge]

Why does it matter?

[slate wharf]

ye, even WB knew shanks lost his arm on east blue while WB crew is on new world iirc. just imagine how fast info can get in op world lol

[spark relic]

I'm asking you and I want you to answer by not personalizing it, because I want you to contradict yourself and see that you're wrong and actually personalizing things

[naive wolf]

yeah but that is evident and they prolly knew until Shank's returning to new world, is different to be public knowlegde that he gave the nika's zoan and his iconic straw hat to -at that time- a mere brat

[slate wharf]

welp, if info such as that can be easily spread to the world then i doubt WG can't do this on things that they want to investigate on

[ashen surge]

There's a public record being kept of the Devil Fruits which is the very reason why the name and importance of the Nika/Gumi fruit was changed. I don't think Who's Who personally was searching or looking for the Gomu Gomu fruit, maybe some Marines found a Devil Fruit, it was reported upstairs and Who's Who's mission was only to go retrieve a fruit from there and deliver it to some bigger WG facility. It's in WGs and marines interest to collect and safeguard devil fruits so they can utilize them for themselves. This would be a completely run in the mill mission without great importance when we are dealing with objects which' values in in the hundreds of millions.

[pure raven]

Mythical zoan model: nika might be a retcon i think. It was something oda came up with recently atleast Zou or reverie
Remember oda said he wants luffy to defeat kaido without strong punches in 2016. Zou was going on at that time

I think he realized he needed 2 things-- 1. He needed to establish just how strong the 4 Emperors were. Hence Whole Cake Island--Luffy doesn't defeat Big Mom and the Straw Hats escape by the skin of their teeth.
2. He needed to come up with a power up for Luffy...so he gave Luffy all of them

All other things make sense Awakening, gear 5, nika(sun god), joyboy, bounce house theory etc..

Just the mythical zoan doesn't add up. Probably oda thought about it when shanks went to meet gorosei.

[naive wolf]

it is argueable about how much far to the past oda was planning the nika's fruit; like someone says: "everything is foreshadow if you believe it"; like on Drum island (literally called it drum and we have drums of liberation now) it was presented the first hito hito no mi, and also the first "will of D" clear mention

[slate wharf]

it adds up if u tried to think about his g4 transformation. Literally works like zoan and not paramecia, it's just ppl didn't realize this asap (some prob did) and just accepted the fact that luffy could take form of a monkey/snake in his g4 while thinking it is paramecia. Also, nika was being foreshadowed since skypiea ig so i wouldn't call this a retcon either. tho i can understand who do

[naive wolf]

wg logic: let's punish severe to Who's who (we ain't know his real name yet hehe) who lost the legendary Nika's fruit, but let's promote to a high rank the one (Rob Lucci) who lost against the guy with the Nika's fruit ability; makes no sense

man i will stand up with my theory that gorosei are cyborgs and imu mess with their memories from time to time, they are uncanny as f

[slate wharf]

just what kind of talk no jutsu lucci use to convince wg to promote him even further after that arc lol

[pure raven]

Luffy was in front of 3 admirals in marineford. WG could have finished him right there. But they didn't. I don't think oda came up with the mythical zoan idea earlier.
Gorosei already knew about Gomu Gomu no mi Awakening (but in chapter 1037 they said it's even legend to themo don't understand what they mean)

Anyway i have no complaints about luffys new DF. I'm enjoying Luffy's fight more than I did before

[ashen surge]

You're still assuming that the WG is some homogenic symbiotic entity which is all-knowing in all levels in its structure. Did Gorosei ever even know that who Who's Who is or that he was on a such mission to deliver Gomu Gomu Fruit to a marine base from somewhere?

[naive wolf]

also the destruction of part of Ennies lobby and the waste of the buster call, and they were fine; while my man who's who was almost slaved until he starts to believe on distant legends bec he just lost his hopes on anything else

[pure raven]

I have theory about how oda could have avoid this plot hole easily. But I'm lazy to write

[spark relic]

You have nothing to prove bruv, everything you have is facts and what Keturin is looking for is truth... He has his truth but what we have is facts and truth can't beat facts because truths work in favor of people but facts don't... If he's still against it, let him be.

[ashen surge]

You don't have the facts, show me the facts

[naive wolf]

o h, try make a effort, this is the biggest plothole on one piece, or at least if shank's turns out to be evil ends to be true, which is how this conversation started

[naive wolf]

yaa i know WG are not omiscient, yet it feels like the Gomu's fruit portrayed a serious effort as to why it must be recovered no matter what, and that is resulted on severe who's who punishment, which you say is like any other cp9 fail

[ashen surge]

That is again assuming that anyone in the chain of command knew how important gomu gomu was, rather than just an another fruit

[pure raven]

Okay imagine oda didn't introduce who's who. Shanks didn't steal this DF from WG. Shaks stolen this fruit from an Enemy.
So the character who's who is not in the story rn.
Gorosei have no idea Gomu Gomu no mi is nika fruit. They mentioned the awakening of that fruit is even legend to them in 1037.

So shanks told them about Gomu Gomu no mi is Mythical zoan model:nika at the reverie. Them the WG find out luffy had this fruit all this time and by the help of Cipher Pol WG trying to prevent its Awakening.

Does this make sense? For me it does idk

[naive wolf]

at least the one who gives such a hard sentence has to know about the real potential of the fruit

[ashen surge]

That's the norm in CP9, it doesnt matter how important mission, if you fail, you're fucked and no one is going to listen or believe your excuses

[naive wolf]

#manga-theories message

[spark relic]

Who's Who was sent on a mission to protect the fruit, the fruit was stolen and he got locked up, Rob Lucci and friends failed to beat the straw hats but weren't imprisoned so it's def not because he failed his mission and the fruit didn't just appear, it had to have been there, the world government had to have known about it, before they issued an order to go and guard it, the world government also knew about the true name of the fruit and even the last time it was awakened which implies that they knew about Joyboy and everything else, which means the fruit's importance was known too, in short Who's who was imprisoned not because he failed his mission but he failed to guard the fruit... This is fact and if you still don't believe then you're just being adamant @ashen surge

[ashen surge]

The failure of Enies Lobby was pinned on the CP9 by Spandam and they were on the run for a while and then something happened, can you imagine what happened that their shit was pardoned?

[spark relic]

Man I have nothing else to say to you, I've given you facts but you still refuse to believe... You win 👏 yeah completely

[naive wolf]

by your logic WG is just not consistent, and that is why i said they are uncanny, like acting by imu's whimsical mood, she saying "yeah go punish this guy but this other one let's give him a new opportunity"

[ashen surge]

Do you really think Imu is personally involved in this crap?

[naive wolf]

honest i don't get why Who's who role not being included could change this plothole

[spark relic]

Imu is the head of the world government 🤬 do you even watch one piece???

[pure raven]

Who's who had this fruit indicate WG already knew about this fruit and how dangerous it is.
Without Who's who there was no other connection in the story WG knew it was Mythical zoan model:nika

[ashen surge]

Yes exactly, why would Imu be personally involved in the day to day operations of the WG and marines? Only Gorosei knows that Imu even exists, probs doffy too

[pure raven]

So they find out about this fruit by shanks telling them will eliminate the plot hole (why WG didn't chase luffy even though they knew luffy had this DF)

[cunning geode]

Zoro def dying

[spark relic]

He doesn't need to, that's why he has the Gorosei and Kong

[naive wolf]

oh right, agree:3 but this aint' change the confusion as for why sudden change to orders given to cp0 in onigashima all along; if they knew about the fruit and why not chase luffy on the first place; if they don't, why such a severe punishment to who's who; also @ashen surge Imu should be involved on top tier missions, like this level of importance, it is a legendary fruit with the name of a god, not some random delivery

[ashen surge]

Do you really think that after the WG had gone through the trouble of hiding Gomu Gomus true nature that the marines as a whole had given a memo that if you find this fruit, you call directly to the gorosei?

[naive wolf]

it is your headcannon that marines find the fruit, that is not mentionated by who's who if i m not wrong:c

[pure raven]

Why would they forgive Lucci? He lost the mission to bring back pluton?
Lucci would have got severe punishment like Who's who.

I think this way.. who's who got punishment was a normal thing. Why they forgave Lucci?

[spark relic]

Did the marines find the fruit?
No one else knew about that fruit except probably Shanks, Kaido and the Gorosei

[ashen surge]

Well Who's Who said his mission was to safeguard the fruit while its being delivered, nothing about finding it so yes I'm assuming it was found by the marines

[ashen surge]

There exists a public record where the gomu gomu fruit is listed.

[spark relic]

And Lucci's and the rest of the CP9's mission was to defeat the criminals who infiltrated Enies Lobby and even destroyed it... Enies fucking lobby which is a stronghold for the World Government... Lucci is meant to be in prison too

[naive wolf]

just doesn't make any sense, at least, if who's who speech was just bravado and he aint even close to Lucci's powerscale, and that was something WG take in consideration to not punish him as they did with w's w; tho im not too confident about that

[ashen surge]

Because Lucci ran and then did something worthwhile to get him and co pardoned, what might that be. If Rob Lucci while being a fugitive for example helped the Celestial Dragons they are now bodyguarding decided we like this dude and he's going to serve us now in the cp0. Any failures would be wiped off then

[spark relic]

Where?

[spark relic]

It was stated that Who's Who was regarded as a genius alongside Lucci... Which means he should have had equal strength and respect as Lucci did

[spark relic]

What the actual fuck? Where is it?

[ashen surge]

I think it's rude to accuse someone else from not reading the manga when it seems you're actually not reading the manga

[naive wolf]

stopping a randome pirate is worth to be pardoned?

[ashen surge]

Ah nevermind, CDs werent invovled in here

[naive wolf]

it is k

[spark relic]

What does this have to do with your point tho? It being listed in a manual doesn't necessarily mean it was found by the marines?

[pure raven]

@naive wolf @ashen surge

But still Lucci failed to bring back pluton(weapon to counter act) One of the ancient weapons. It's even a bigger mistake than what who's who did i think

[spark relic]

I do read the manga I just didn't remember BB saying something like that

[ashen surge]

And why would some random celestial dragon who takes liking into Lucci care about any of that shit

[naive wolf]

yo i even forgot about that, just reinforce my theory that gorosei are kinda retards

[ashen surge]

Retrieving Pluton was a conspiracy of Spandam to overthrow the Celestial Dragons and take over the world himself.

[pure raven]

I don't know what you are talking. How does Lucci meet celestial dragon when the WG is trying to kill him. You think he just went to meet the CD and he liked Lucci and they forgave him?

[ashen surge]

Every pirate in the new world who WG is trying to kill has gone through Sabaody Archipelago, why wouldn't Lucci and co do that as well?

[pure raven]

They don't know about spandams plan. Also spandam can't do that. He is only a mere puppet

[naive wolf]

Lucci is just charismatic and hansome and who's who is prolly a piece of 💩 , i can't find anything else:c

[pure raven]

There isn't anything makes sense. I think oda will tell us why they let Lucci join the Cipher Pol again

[spark relic]

That's what we're saying man... Lucci escaped punishment for a crime equal to or greater than the crime Who's who committed, meaning that who's who was sentenced not because he failed his mission but to safeguard the fruit Hito Hito no mi... Which implies that the WG knew about the fruit from the start as opposed to what you're saying... We're back to square one again @ashen surge

[pure raven]

Hahaha

[naive wolf]

wish too, also maybe Lucci is stronger that who's who, let's say, but what bout kaku? they just seems to be on their peakness after a big lost; i mean i know oda as others mangaka love to reuse the same characters, but yeah he should explain why this inconsistency

[spark relic]

Yeah

[ashen surge]

There's also an another reason why the fugitive CP9 agents from enies lobby would be pardoned

[naive wolf]

like @pure raven says, even if we take on account the "shank's snitching" theory, there is this w's w plot hole

[pure raven]

I don't think it's related to strength..
Oda introduced 2 more admiral candidates and Film Gold and they were shown in the reverie too

Btw who do you think Lucci will fight in future?

I think SWORD vs Cipherl Pol might happen. Cp0 and drake already had a clash. Both of them were Marines.

[abstract pond]

Maybe Coby defeating Lucci to show he got strong

[pure raven]

Yes who's who plot hole can't be solved ig.

What do you think? You think shanks stealing who's who is a retcon?

[spark relic]

What doesn't add up is that Who's who was considered as Lucci's equal in both strength and respect, also meaning Who's who was stronger than Kaku... Which means if it was about strength who's who shouldn't have been imprisoned as the same favor that freed or helped Lucci and Kaku would have found him too, which brings us to the conclusion that the punishment was intended or this was just inconsistency

[pure raven]

The punishment was normal. WG do this anyone who failed their Job.
I think forgiving Lucci and kaku is odd here

[naive wolf]

XD popularity ranking? and @pure raven i would love to see some normie defeating him, bec personally i think he was a bit overrated, also i like the sabo match hehe; and i just don't know what Shank's will do whatsoever, i expect to oda surprise us and he is shady as f

[spark relic]

That's what I'm saying

[ashen surge]

The aftermath of the summit war, the shakeup in the WG as whole and a dire fucking need to bring in some quality people even if they had fucked up before. Even buggy managed to climb to a Warlord

Putting Who's Who in jail for a mistake and reinstating and promoting Lucci & co even after a mistake is only weird if you're not considering what was going on in the story during that time Lucci climbed back to CP

[pure raven]

I want sabo to fight Akainu.
I don't think Akainu won't the final villain because akainu is a mere puppet of WG. He can't do anything against the gorosei orders which means there are so many people higher than him. luffy will have a side fight with Akainu (jk) or sabo will fight him ig

Someone mentioned koby vs Lucci. It would be great i think

[naive wolf]

i dunno about that, like being pardoned should be more as a normal action to take, they (gorosei) felt kinda pitty for cp0 boss dying by Kaido's hands; on mother carmel flash back it is shown that they are kids who train to be special and strong why waste a whole life martial arts education with a severe punishment just for making mistakes

[ashen surge]

Because you control and push people to their limits with fear and that fear has to be based on something.

[naive wolf]

o h god, my umpopular idea is that Akainu may be part of sword (he has a tattoo of it) and he aint a WG puppet when we already seen him dissing head headed with gorosei

[pure raven]

But the mistakes are fails to guard God like DF and fails to bring back one of the ancient weapon which has the capability of even destroying this world

[ashen surge]

Who knew that Who's Who failed to guard a god like DF? Did Who's Who even himself know?

[spark relic]

Yeah but I see Koby losing tho

[ashen surge]

And in Enies Lobby the failure was not retrieving the blueprints of Pluton, the failure was to execute Nico Robin

[spark relic]

Lucci is easily HQ vice admiral level at least

[pure raven]

Yes i have seen that cover page.
But i have some doubts about it.
The "Captain" used to translated his rank isn't analogous to a Marine rank. It implies that he's the leader, just like how Luffy is a "Captain".

His title in Japanese is 隊長, and SWORD is referred to as 機密特殊部隊, so a 部隊. 隊長 is basically the boss of a 隊, and 部隊 is one as you can see by its second kanji.

So Akainu might not be a member of sword. I don't think he will work for Drake. But there is chance for he was responsable for the formation of SWORD and he put Drake in charge

[naive wolf]

i may have to study the kanji reference later, but right now, thinking about akainu, what better facade like to show "absolute justice" so they never think you are plotting to pull down the ones you are serving; i wont elaborate much cause i know how dumb may sound that Akainu ends to be no evil at all, and im not up to defend that hehe @pure raven

[spark relic]

I think so too

[near ridge]

I think The real sun God Nika was probably a lunarian mink because we saw luffy with Hito Hito no Mi model sun God Nika can use fire ( which lunarion can control)and lightning (which minks can use ( (as we saw in spoilers of chapter 1046 )

[spark relic]

What's even more questionable is Aokiji? Why did he join BB do you think he has his own motive or he's still secretly working for the navy or he's just nothing but a pirate rn?

Of all the crews why did he join BB's crew🤦‍♂️... I really liked the guy

[naive wolf]

my shot is that he is somehow protecting robin from BB hands

[ashen surge]

We have been introduced an organization called SWORD which specifically is tasked to monitor Yonkos and after resigning from the marines, Aokiji is now running with the BB. What could be the reason?

[spark relic]

What if he's working for the revolutionary army?

[twin widget]

ay don’t talk about 1046 spoilers bro

[spark relic]

Aokiji couldn't possibly work under someone who is two ranks below him

[naive wolf]

may haps? what proofs do you have btw? i think he is somehow related to robin, like maybe he got to met Robin's father, always felt a uncle's vibe around them two

[ashen surge]

I don't understand

[formal bridge]

Guys who do you think is leader of SWORD

[near ridge]

Sry ;-;

[naive wolf]

sengoku? was corazon part of sword by the way?

[pure raven]

I don't think Akainu is a good guy. There was no mention about SWORD is an organisation of good pirates right? Only Koby and Drake was shown so far and Drake is the Captain.

I have seen many people talking about Fujitora,sengoku and Aokiji might be SWORD but i have no idea about it

[naive wolf]

so SWORD is like a gang of anarchist inside the marines and maybe WG as well and Drake is who leadership some faction?

[pure raven]

That's a good take. He already helped Robin 2 times

[formal bridge]

Do you think koby can catch hancock He was sent to catch her

[naive wolf]

they prolly going to hang out chatting about how great is luffy

[ashen surge]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using #manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description.

[spark relic]

Aokiji doesn't like the way the WG works... Seeing as he left the marines and he's also very laid back, for someone like him to join a pirate crew? Nah, that's sus

[formal bridge]

Marines not gonna sit back and not catch hancock though

[naive wolf]

Hancock has a big Luffy's wanted bounty all along outside of her castle , how Coby will react about this

[formal bridge]

When was that told . Which chapter

[amber oar]

cover story

[spark relic]

Drake is the captain of SWORD... But his rank may be commodore or rear admiral, vice admiral at most

[pure raven]

But they way oda referred drake being captain was just like Luffy . So i doubt it's just some faction

[ashen surge]

So you're saying that Aokiji wouldn't do an undercover op since he failed to become a fleet admiral because he'd refuse answering to someone below his then-rank?

[naive wolf]

so according to your japanese interpretation, Drake is like the number 1 on SWORD?

[spark relic]

Yes, plus sword is an organization under the marines... The bet Aokiji and Akainu made was that the loser would leave the Marines... Aokiji possibly still can't be a marine officer... So yes

[pure raven]

Yess asked some people who know Japanese they said the same

[ashen surge]

There was no bet, you're wrong

[spark relic]

Plus there's no way an admiral who's just below the fleet admiral would answer to someone lower than his rank

[formal bridge]

What do you think aokiji wrote in his resume to join bb pirates

[naive wolf]

dang this is a bit outrageous but i guess it is k; also what do you think about Law's being part of SWORD too (the sus scene of Drake liberating Law's on Wano make have some hints) ?

[ashen surge]

What is your basis for this? It was stated that Aokiji refused to serve Akainu but if given a position in a (possibly) rogue branch of the marines while keeping doing the good work he believes in, why not?

[formal bridge]

Aokiji being undercover is too obvious btw do you think bb will fall for it. I would rather say shiryuu is undercover

[naive wolf]

i dont think BB care if the people who follow him is trustworthy (even burgess question it), rather he is just interested in power and control powerful people by his flag, like prolly Xebec used to do (Big Mom also stated that Rocks was not trustworthy)

[spark relic]

🤦‍♂️

[ashen surge]

So where does it say the loser has to leave marines?

[spark relic]

The loser was meant to leave the Marines... If you'd watched Z you'll see where Aokiji retired

[formal bridge]

Z isn't canon though

[spark relic]

Not exactly but that's what either of them would have done

[ashen surge]

If you wanna try to serve me with receipts from the manga, at least pick the right receipts

[formal bridge]

"Sengoku nominated aokiji" and "but the upper echelon of the government support for aokiji was strong" so why did akainu become fleet admiral lol 🤣 it's error in this panel

[spark relic]

Imagine if Akainu had lost to Aokiji... Do you think he'll still be in the navy?

[ashen surge]

What does it matter? You said there was a bet about leaving the marines and clearly there was no bet.

[spark relic]

They had a fucking duel is what I meant... I just said it indirectly

[ashen surge]

Don't packpedal, own your mistakes

[spark relic]

The bet was my way of saying what would have happened... A fight can happen without a bet because you don't need a reason to fight, but a duel is backed up with reason, that's why I called it a bet... Though in this case it would have shifted my argument and put me in the wrong but I honestly meant the same thing

[formal bridge]

Can anyone explain this. I don't think bb would just hire an admiral that could work against him a vice admiral would be ok but admiral should be a big no no also i think shiryuu is undercover

[spark relic]

You don't need a resume to be a pirate

[ashen surge]

Yeah and it was a duel where the one who wins is going to become the fleet admiral and it probably was a fight to the death but Aokiji was spared so it's entirely possible that he's a SWORD agent after resigning officially since Sword doesn't answer to Akainu

[stray warren]

how do I send pictures, I just found out luffy didn't get his freedom dream from his devil fruit. it's literally in a panel

[spark relic]

Your argument is a straw man argument... I wasn't basing my point on whether they made a bet or not, you picked that mistake out of my statement knowing what I actually mean and used it against me while knowing fully well that it's not part of the original argument which is Why Aokiji joined BB? Straw man arguments are done by people who have no points, whatsoever to counter the original point... Don't do that shit man @ashen surge

[spark relic]

HE LEFT THE NAVY

[ashen surge]

My argument: Aokiji joined BB since he's SWORD undercover
You said: Aokiji cant be sword agent because his and akainus fight involved a deal that the loser leaves the marines. This was proved to be false

[naive wolf]

why shiryu said he was waiting for BB on impel down? is it another "warrior of " legend story told by the convicts and jailers like the nika warrior of liberation story that who's who heard of it; although i think is not proven that who's who was on impel down, but still, why shiryu was waiting for "someone like BB" ?

[ashen surge]

And? So did X Drake "Leave the navy" but there he was being an operative the whole time.

[spark relic]

No that was to disprove your own argument... My argument was that Aokiji joined BB because he couldn't possibly be a marine which is the direct opposite of yours

[naive wolf]

which chapter?

[ashen surge]

What is the reason he possibly couldn't be a SWORD undercover operative?

[spark relic]

Nothing was said about Drake leaving the navy, but the Aokiji was said to have left the navy

[spark relic]

Because he left the navy... Sword is a secret organization under the marines, so to be a member of the sword you have to be a member of the marines first which Aokiji retired from

[formal bridge]

He was waiting for someone to break him out

[ashen surge]

In the first panel where X Drake is introduced, Urouge tells that X Drake is a defected ex marine, now a pirate captain. He also "left the navy" in the public record but he's still an operative.

[spark relic]

That's different man... They had to make it look like he left just incase information is leaked, he was infiltrating an emperor's crew, it's not something that you just do normally, you need to do some paperwork to make it look real, that's how undercover agents work... Aokiji on the other hand left on his own accord because he couldn't serve Akainu, that wasn't bec of duty but bec of his pride

[naive wolf]

also you guys got convinced that koby fighting Boa ain't happening at all?

[formal bridge]

I think he means when gorosei were talking about gomu gomu being hito hito

[ashen surge]

How is it different? The M.O. is identical, left the marines, now is running with the yonko.

[naive wolf]

yeah i just randomly thinking maybe a legend about BB arriving too, like Luffy being the warrior of liberation, maybe BB being the warrior of chaos, somethinh like that

[ashen surge]

The reader only knows about Aokiji stepping down from the marines is what Jinbe told to the Strawhats, that's the official story sure. But Drake also had an official story.

[formal bridge]

Lol that would be good but oda didn't introduce any antagonist from 800 years ago

[spark relic]

Exactly... Every officer in the navy is under Akainu rn... Sword or not... Aokiji left because his pride couldn't take his mate becoming his leader and he himself was worthy enough to be a candidate for leadership, who wouldn't leave?

[ashen surge]

We don't know if Akainu even knows that Sword exists

[formal bridge]

I don't think so when kizaru asked akainu to send him to wano akainu denied by saying wano is out of their jurisdiction

[spark relic]

Drake left but still keeps in touch with the marines giving them Intel on Kaido, Aokiji left as in RETIRED... How are they the same???

[ashen surge]

Coby belonging to the SWORD is a clear indication that it's a rogue cell inside the marines that will have a bigger role in the future weeding out the corruption of the marines themselves.

[formal bridge]

Maybe garp is their leader

[spark relic]

So how is that related to my argument

[ashen surge]

You don't know if Aokiji is actually retired, if you have that written in the story, please show me where

Did you know before chapter 956 that X Drake is still a marine?

[formal bridge]

He wouldn't have stopped kizaru if he knew drake was working undercover for him also drake didn't know about cp0 whereas akainu was told by gorosei they sent cipher pol

[spark relic]

Aokiji can't stay because him staying would mean working under Akainu which is the reason why he was said to leave the Marines... Except if you're Oda I don't see the reason why you should dispute this fact

[ashen surge]

Do you know what a rogue cell is?

[naive wolf]

that is randy troy popular theory right? i dunno how much garb could make up by his own, it be a great surprise if he turns to be a good tactician 👀

[formal bridge]

Maybe sengoku is helping him

[spark relic]

No because you're the one who gave it that meaning... The SWORD is a secret special force who are under the Marine HQ

[formal bridge]

Oh yeah it says Marine HQ but it also says koby as rear admiral whereas he is just a captain

[ashen surge]

Secret Special Force precisely indicates it's a cell whose business doesn't belong to anyone else than the members of said cell. Let's say Garp was able to negotiate Aokiji to join SWORD with the promise that SWORD are the good cops of the marines who want to weed out the bad cops of the marines eq. Akainu.

[formal bridge]

Bruh where are you reading too many errors

[formal bridge]

Can't actually call akainu bad he is a hard liner but not bad necessarily.

[ashen surge]

Well he's definitely not as idealistic or rigged with ethics like Coby etc

[formal bridge]

Yeah can call it a different type of justice

[ashen surge]

Well it's not only about that, it's also about the fact that WG/Marines agree to do arms dealing with Joker and Kaido.

The higher you go, the corrupt you end up being

[formal bridge]

You saying like low level marines aren't corrupt like axe hand morgan. Everyone is corrupt doesn't matter position.

[spark relic]

I don't know why theycalled him a rear admiral... Lemme see yours if it is different and says captain

[formal bridge]

Which chapter is it

[ashen surge]

But there are nuances in that corruption, it's a different thing to be powertripping in some small base than making behind the scenes handshake deals with the most notorious criminals in the world

[proven monolith]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/txro8w/shanks_vegapunk_kuma_allies/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

[formal bridge]

Vegapunk saikyou

[neat vessel]

Personally I don't think it's teaches fault ace is dead

• Ace was naive and overly cocky. He took a little disrespect to wb and died like a fool because of it.

• they tried to say he was similar to roger who sacrificed himself to protect his crew.

• yet ace died and akainu still put a scar and hole in jinbei.

• marines are corrutlpt believķee just bor anybody is

[red nacelle]

Interesting but too streched. First of all i dont think anyone can precisely see into the future otherwise sharly (arlongs sister) becomes redundant.

Second it was crearly stated by toki that noone can go back in time. I think we can take it at face value.

I like the 3rd option. But even so all the rest are too extreme since we know nothing to use as a foundation.

Interesting 🤔

[tulip hedge]

Unpopular opinion but true, the whole marine vs wb war was straight up pointless and just resulted in tons of deaths all cause of Ace's cockiness

[somber sphinx]

i think i take Merphy's take on this. For years ace couldn't acknowledge his real father and heard all the hate against his whole bloodline. WB was the Father figure he never had and always wanted. If Ace didn't defend WB's Honour he wouldn't be ACE.

[tulip hedge]

I agree, it did fit his character of course

[formal bridge]

Bb fault is he killed thatch. Ace didn't want to kill wb because he disrespected wb

[abstract pond]

Pointless for the wb pirates. The marines got their objective of taking down Whitebeard.

[formal bridge]

It wasn't pointless it was to show that wb doesn't leave his family behind

[proven monolith]

yeah 3rd option is best to me but i also think it may be why Oda has left so many mysteries about Vegapunk, Shanks, and Dragon. Kuma was probably a go between. basically sacrificing himself for Dragon and the Rev. Army. Oda couldn't go into detail until he makes some crucial reveals 1st

[proven monolith]

i just learned how to use reddit and discord in past 6 weeks. I had to in order to find people to discuss One Piece manga with because my kids only watch anime. I can't spoil it for them and they refuse to read the manga

[lunar shell]

No Ace is the only onz deserving respect here ( i dont like ace ). Teach kill WB son and Wb dont move ? Wb had to take action and help Ace.

[red nacelle]

I get it... I only have discord. I am also thinking of helping some local fansubs people so that my kids be able to watch the anime or read the manga sooner.

[violet badge]

Quick question. If DF users get sick in laugh tale then how tf our boy ganna get there

[red nacelle]

I have the same question. Maybe he is the key or something... I don't know!

[violet badge]

Or perhaps if you are a D then it's cool 😎

[proven monolith]

my kid think its cool that i am so into anime and manga

[proven monolith]

True Buggy got very sick and so did Toki, right?

[formal bridge]

Ivankov is real = gender bender is canon right guys

[modest skiff]

Where are you getting this assumption from?

[rocky stirrup]

jesse what the fuck the fuck are you talking about

[sly minnow]

If conquerers haki coated armament is the absolute strongest, how the fuck is Garp so unbelievably strong without conquerers? Are his combat skills just that much better?

[dense wing]

We are unaware if Garp has CoC or not

I lean towards he did, we just haven’t seen it yet

Also people claim Garp is unbelievably strong when really it’s hard to say

He and Sengoku can give Roger a good fight, and they took down Shiki together but only after Shiki destroyed Marineford

If I had to guess, Garp in his prime was probably just a tad stronger than our current Admirals

[modest skiff]

Let's have power scaling/power comparisons in the manga channels rather than here please

[ashen surge]

I think Garp is missing CoC since he hasn’t shown interest to rising through the ranks

[proven monolith]

Sengoku said Garp refused a higher rank because he did NOT want to answer to the Celestial Dragons

[ashen surge]

I don’t see how these are contradictory

[late token]

Well people with coc show kingly ambitions. Garp Doesnt Show that other than him not wanting to answer to anybody but his own idea of justice

[proven monolith]

i just meant it as a matter of fact..there could be other reasons

[modern flame]

Yes, the kingly ambition of wanting to be Oden

[proven monolith]

I wonder what kind of relationship Garp has with Dragon. If they are on good terms or not

[amber oar]

The thing is, one doesn't contradict nor support the other. They're completely independent. thinking in one because of the other is too out of the blue

[proven monolith]

the next chapter will be out later..I hope we catch up on Zoro, Franky, Robin and Brooke. I have been worried about Robin since everyone in the world wants to capture her

[lunar shell]

#manga-theories message

[modest skiff]

I'd love to hear more about them too, but right now I'm too excited for Luffy vs Kaido to focus on anything else. In general, we talk about next chapter hype in #also-manga and #manga , so feel free to post your hype in that channel rather than this one next time

[plucky rapids]

Wait what

Sharly is arlong's sister?....

[modest skiff]

Half sister

[proven monolith]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/txsmmq/is_robin_missing/

[spark relic]

956

[iron lion]

Interesting bibical connection between The straw hats and God
https://twitter.com/mahou_mage/status/1511608945617514496

mage (@mahou_mage)

Im convinced this is real. God is real. This world is amazing.

Twitter · Apr 6, 2022, 7:37 AM

[red nacelle]

🙂

[exotic rapids]

Yeah i made this post

[tulip hedge]

LOL

[exotic rapids]

whats funny

[tulip hedge]

The turn of events

[formal bridge]

Captain

[spark relic]

I knew coby was captain tho...The mistake in the manga wasn't really important

But wow...It's shocking how some apps can be wrong...I use Mangafreak but that was from Mangazone , prolly translation errors

[amber oar]

IIRC the initial release said read admiral and was corrected in the volume.

[amber oar]

found it

[spark relic]

Speaking of Koby, how strong do you think he'll get?

[granite narwhal]

ace's level

[visual merlin]

in his prime he'll at least be as strong as an admiral

I think he'll be as strong as akainu is now

[spark relic]

Ace was strong yk, if ace was in the navy he'd have easily been hq vice admiral level

[visual merlin]

If you're talking abotu prime koby he'd be way stronger than ace

[modest skiff]

Power scaling discussions should be in the manga channels

[spark relic]

I honestly can't wait to see him

[mystic heart]

No please dont power scale

[visual merlin]

Lets listen to Mohdoo

[formal bridge]

Any theories on how one piece gonna end?

[lunar shell]

Momo Uranus he can control secret weapon of wano.

Shiraoshi Poseidon she can control secret weapon of fishman island.

Vivi Pluton she can control secret weapon of alabasta.

Zunesha is the one that started the war all those years ago. He is king of the ancient kingdom « Blue Line ».
Imu was a kind soul but Zunesha really pissed her off.

The rest is history.

I mean there is a red strawhat and its red line and a blue strawhat and its grand line right. The name of the ancient kingdom is a problem by itself for the wg those it has to mean something

[formal bridge]

We already know shirahoshi is Poseidon and pluton is a warship as for Uranus it's still unknown

[lunar shell]

Or maybe the blue strawhat is for the rain god and its zunesha idk.

[formal bridge]

Btw any ideas why are gorosei working with pirates

[spark relic]

That's a good theory but

Considering that there's an order to this

[lunar shell]

Is it ? I m just triggered by zunesha and the blue hat. I v got a feeling zunesha is a major piece then I m blank is boring. It can go any direction i need more intel.

[jade silo]

Huh what blue hat

[lunar shell]

The frozen one imu is looking after. Clearly showing it is ancient, like 1000-800 y ago ancient

[formal bridge]

You might be right on zunesha coz all weapons are huge till now like mermaid princess is huge pluton might be huge that's why maybe zunesha is uranus

[spark relic]

You've got it already
Pluton is a weapon on land
Poseidon is a weapon in water
Uranus is the personofication of the sky rather than a god but it still implies the same thing, uranus is def a weapon in the sky @lunar shell

[formal bridge]

Pluton is a warship bro

[spark relic]

Yeah I know...I never said it was a person

[formal bridge]

You said weapon on land warship is used in water

[lunar shell]

Y I agree. But this momo dude says : I can’t die.

Zunesha expect a certain order from him like sea king form poseidon

He is the son of ppl that make poneglyh and a girl from the void century

Idk I feel he is not just a regular kid and might be the other king the sea king are talking about, making the sun of the moon : Uranus

[spark relic]

Not necessaarily...It may have technology that makes it move on land

[formal bridge]

But he is older than shirahoshi
2nd king should be younger than shirahoshi

[lunar shell]

Oh right. Sea king says they will be born when momo boy is roaming on Roger’s boat

[spark relic]

But this isn't even my point

The ancient weapons are weapons of mass destruction, they can be used on anywhere, I was just talking about where they're kept @formal bridge

[ashen surge]

If Pluton is supposed to be a warship that's capable of destroying whole island in a world that is almost entirely islands, why would it be a land vehicle

[formal bridge]

Btw who do you think second king is

[lunar shell]

Red hat, blue hat.
Sun god, Rain god ( same tune )
Ancient kingdom name = meaningfull

[spark relic]

I was just trying to bring up the idea that it might be amphibous, considering the fact that it's buried in alabasta...

[lunar shell]

Well if I remove Momo I m left with vivi cuz she’s princess of a country that hold an ancient weapon, she is aknowedged by Imu, Oda want her to be relevant, so its for a reason.

[formal bridge]

@lunar shell vivi is 18

https://youtu.be/sjRiAECaRZI 0:36 i don't get what they are saying

[spark relic]

Pluton should be a really large ship, considering the fact that it's said to have the power to destroy islands, i suspect it has a huge cannon with serious firepower and also serious recoil...The ship has to be really large to manage that right? , if the ship was really that large, would people be able to pull it? I doubt, thus my idea that the pluton is amphibous.

[lunar shell]

Blue poneglyph are about the past, red are about the futur

Blue hat is frozen in past, red hat is enjoying sun light of the futur

One day rain will stop and let place for the sun.

[formal bridge]

Can someone explain what they are saying at 0:36

[lunar shell]

Urg 18 is not ok ? What is the maximum age I m allowed

[formal bridge]

Watch the video i don't get what seakings are trying to say

[spark relic]

I was just referring to where the weapons are kept my man @ashen surge don't start your straw man arguments with me, as a matter of fact, poseidon who is in the sea, can also destroy islands by sinking them, so...

[neon shoal]

Wait if nami’s considered one of smartest people in east blue, then why didnt nami know about alabasta when alabasta or nefeltari family one of 20 king that made world government?

[spark relic]

Lol...That's a serious misunderstanding you got there my man

[naive wolf]

oh my, then Alabasta is hidden by wg?

[neon shoal]

Maybe i guess

[naive wolf]

but it's agreat nation, this is interesting; so it is like a way to isolated lke wano, they still are part of wg, they go to reverie, yet it is weird the public doesn't know about them 😕

[neon shoal]

Exactly

[spark relic]

There are three types of poneglyphs which are Historical, Instructional and Road Poneglyphs...The historical and instructional poneglyphs are blue, only the road poneglyphs are red @lunar shell

What's shocking tho, is how you got the "theory of the blue hat"?

[lunar shell]

Certainly. I m just brain storming * de yansu*

@formal bridge okay so they are talking about Shiraoshi for the born in 10 and grow in 15. They dont specify it for the « other one » that will be born in a distant sea.

For me. Anyone that is between 15 and 25 works. That mean Momo Vivi and Luffy work

My guess : the ruler is Momo.

Vivi being being more like the descendant of the kingdom that is not ok with crushing Momo \ Shira kingdom and have a non-mythological weapon like Uranus or poseidon, but one of advanced technology !

[spark relic]

I hope you're not calling Momo just because he ate the Artificial Dragon Fruit? In fact why are you calling Momo?

[naive wolf]

Momo is important, even Kaido hesitates on killing him when the Oden palace fell down; then he after reading his father journal "i cannot die", it aint has to do anything with his artifitial df

[lunar shell]

I dont have theory expect for this. : I think zunesha crime,
vivi being in Imu's sight, the blue hat, and the name of the ancient kingdom are the 4 red poneglyph for me. I wonder where they lead.

[lunar shell]

I said it earlier. #manga-theories message

[spark relic]

Momo saying I can't die is just big talk

[lunar shell]

Nami isn't smart in the sense of being knowledgeable, but she and the others mentioned have a hight IQ imo.

@spark relic he says that cuz he read the damn laughtale lol.

[spark relic]

Being born in the Kozuki clan doesn't exactly increase the likelihood of him being an ancient weapon either, the guy wasn't even thought how to read poneglyphs like other first born sons lol

[lunar shell]

You agree that Poseidon really can't die right ? Cuz he is needed like big time. What if Momo is the same, his ' big talk ' make sense de yansu

[spark relic]

Wdym he read laughtale, laughtale is a place yk?

[lunar shell]

No laughtale is the true story. Its also the name of the island indeed. but Foremost, a tale.

[spark relic]

No...Poseidon is just Shirahoshi, who said she can't die?

[lunar shell]

I'm saying it. The sea king wait for her 800 years.

When I say ' can't die ' I obv say it in the sense Momo makes of it. As in "Its such a problem if I die, it's not an option"

[spark relic]

Lol...What he read was Oden's diary not "Laughtale"

[pure raven]

i believe the light is starting to return to kaido's eyes

[lunar shell]

What was the input of the diary ? Isnt it coming from laughtale knowledge ?

Red blueberg will talk in the futur.
Red strawhat Luffy take futur in his own hands

[spark relic]

They never said that

[fathom matrix]

Heck, maybe one of the reasons why kaido wanted to die was he never had a really good fight for a while, like a fun one with a fun opponent

Big Mom and Shanks are strong sure, but they're patronising and don't seek the same thrill or aknowledgement, but Luffy embodies Joyboy, is something new, something unique, and something that truly never backs down, so he's finally having the best fight of his life

[pure raven]

true kaido has never had a true fight without his opponent being strong enough or just being interrupted

[spark relic]

Lemme see a scan if they did @lunar shell

[lunar shell]

@spark relic Reacting to your : #manga-theories message

[fathom matrix]

I bet this is either the Germa in Disguises, OR Black Beard's crew

[lunar shell]

I dont say they say it, I just say it myself, do you have a better explanation ?

[spark relic]

You can't say what they didn't say and let it go in line with your explanation...That's called personalization and no i don't

[amber oar]

The cover specifically says they are two.

Also you can notice Reiju's high heel

[spark relic]

#manga-theories message @lunar shell

[lunar shell]

More than that, Kaido seems to know that Joy boy will defeat him. When Luffy loses and falls in the sea, he says : So you are not Joy Boy either... => you couldn't beat me reveals you are not joy boy => joy boy is supposed to beat him.

[lunar shell]

I know that already but I dont know what u want to say here. Blue are historical and red lead the future generation

[grave garnet]

i felt it was more like " you died so coul'd not become joyboy" in the sense that joyboy didn't die fighting.

[velvet gale]

bro held lightning. bro think he zeus fr💀

[worldly maple]

where does the blue strawhat appear

[spark relic]

There is nothing to say...Historical Poneglyphs talk about history, Instructional Poneglyphs talk about instructions or clues on how to get to places,Road Poneglyphs talk about Laugh Tale alone, and they're only four end of discussion...Where are you bringing up this theory that the blue hat represents rain and the red hat represents sun???I hope you haven't started getting brainwashed by these youtube theorists my man @lunar shell

[spark relic]

Nowhere

[worldly maple]

seems hamfisted then

[pure raven]

why can luffy just grab a lightning bolt all of a sudden

[modest flax]

He power of imagination

[lunar shell]

Or perhaps he just says that cuz Luffy is a D. and that he knows stuff. After all, the poneglyph talking about D is in this island, and him knowing about Joy boy can be explained this way.

[valid token]

His power let’s him now do seemingly anything

[pure raven]

do we know what color luffys hair is in gear5

[worldly maple]

because he is 'ridiculous'? I think that is the consensus

[grave garnet]

He probably make it elastic with his awakened power making him actually able to grab it

[lunar shell]

No I dont do that. Its all me.

[spark relic]

White and so are his eyes, eyebrows, and clothes

[worldly maple]

so he's gonna hit kaido with a big piece of rubber? idk bro

[coral wing]

hello

[edgy fiber]

yo

[modest flax]

Na the ‘rubber ‘ lightning will return back to its original property after Luffy releases

[pure raven]

ok so tahts cannon tyvm

[spark relic]

Lol...I was just teasing...But your theory of the red hat and blue hat makes no sense to me

[lunar shell]

What ? Not his hair ?? Wtf u people keep making chaning things, one day its yellow, next its white, now its yellow or what ?

[worldly maple]

didnt nami just say that he is all white

[lunar shell]

Truth Passes Through Three Stages: First, It Is Ridiculed. Second, It Is Violently Opposed. Third, It Is Accepted As Self-Evident.

[modest flax]

It’s been white since the chapter after first seeing g5

[grave garnet]

@lunar shell Well it could be an explanation yes, but it doesn't explain the you aswell, like he encountered a bunch of people that could have become joyboy himself

@worldly maple Big piece of rubber of 20000°C at least still make damage i think, if not he is grabing pure energy out of nowhere that would be kinda broken

[worldly maple]

oh it's yamato my bad, but she says "oh wow it is luffy but his hair and clothes have turned white" or something

[spark relic]

That's why I said ''For me"...Another person may see it and like it but imo it makes no sense that's all

[worldly maple]

in 1044 we thought he was gonna be all firey because he was just the sun god that's all we had, so most people went with yellow because super saiyan

[lunar shell]

?? He obv met a lot of D, some being roger and xebec

@spark relic Understandable, its a weak, kinda baseless theory.

[worldly maple]

rubber at 20000 C is no longer rubber, it is plasma at that point, essentially lightning

[wide atlas]

is Gigant Thor Axe cannon now???

[grave garnet]

Yeah ofc, or also he just see himself is luffy as they have much common point and king and him were speaking of joyboy in flashback

@worldly maple
dunno to be honnest we haven't seen exactly it working but yet we haven't much example of awakenned power with energy so we'll see i guess my bet still is on elastic thunder

[grizzled fog]

Not sure where that’s from, but if it wasn’t canon before it isn’t now. Thor elephant gun was in dressrosa though

[modest skiff]

lol while this might be true, it isn't clear where you're going with this

[worldly maple]

my point is that he is either gearing up to hit kaido with a massive dildo or he hasnt turned lightning into rubber

[wide atlas]

watch the scene where he fights Shiki

[grizzled fog]

Okay. That’s non canon then. He didn’t fight shiki in the manga

[unborn basin]

i think the 1st one is the best option

[worldly maple]

honestly still pretty sick

[modest skiff]

The description we have been given so far indicates it isn't so much that he turns things into rubber as much as he imbues flexibility. He isn't making rubber stuff, he is giving stuff the freedom of flexibility and bendability

[lunar shell]

nah nah nah, that doesnt fit. Kaido either know that all D can become Joy Boy, or that Joy Boy himself is the one that's going to beat him.

If anyone can become Joy Boy, then this sentence is weird. Why would he says that everytime he beat someone. And why doesnt he think of himself being Joy Boy and be done with it, since he think he can't be defeated.

[modest skiff]

Small thing but perhaps consider using the snipping tool rather than full screen shot.

[spark relic]

Ohk...It's still a theory tho, it may still work

[fathom lichen]

could Luffy help heal Zoro's broken bones by turning Zoro's body to rubber?!

[grizzled fog]

I don’t see why that would help if they’re already broken

[worldly maple]

I think you're right but it's more metaphorical than that. I think flexibility = freedom in a way. Luffy could be twisted and flattened or beat and he would always be luffy, just like rubber retains its shape. Also represents having a flexible fighting style, which would explain pulling lightning out of the clouds like its a damn booger out his nose

[grizzled fog]

Nor is it necessary to give zoro some instant miracle cure. He’s done fighting, there’s no need for him to get back up in this raid. He can take his time and heal naturally

[grave garnet]

Yet zunesha just speaked of joyboy as a dead man he his choosing to follow luffy wich remember him joyboy wich make joyboy both a mythological figure and an historical one ( wich was admitted but not fully confirmed yet ) So it is more a title the one that bring joy and smile to slave wich kaido kind of did with his chemicals he know already he didn't managed to become joyboy wich would explain his depression.

also he doesn't need to say that a lot as his guardmens are a good protection he only said that once luffy hurted him revealating his potential More than his name that he got at the very beginning of wano

[unborn basin]

honestly i dont like how he turns white i like his yellow design even more

[lunar shell]

Oh right Luffy can turn living being Rubber that's funny. Even though it is only in effect while luffy is in near proximity, or even in direct contact.

[modest skiff]

I'm happy to hear you say that, because now I have justification to link you to my theory regarding exactly that:

#manga-theories message

Would enjoy hearing your input

[fathom lichen]

bind them whole again

[grizzled fog]

If he can for some reason combine them when he turns them to rubber I guess, but I don’t think that’s how it works. More likely he’d just turn them into rubber but they’d still be broken

[worldly maple]

"I'm rubber and you're glue whatever you say to me bounces of and sticks on you"

[lunar shell]

Ok but only a D can become Joy Boy dont you think ? Roger is waiting for a D. Roger is obv waiting for Joy Boy. That mean Joy Boy is born from a D. ( in my book )

[unborn basin]

do you guys like his white design????????? his yellow design is so much cooler and white doesnt fit with luffy's colour scheme

[fathom lichen]

I'm trying to see how much will help Luffy's awakening the Sunny; what feats could be gained by the rubber steel like hardened ship?

[modest skiff]

Question for #manga rather than here

[spark relic]

Thanks, it always skips my mind

[worldly maple]

If you consider the white as an extension of the gear 2nd steam, I think it is perfect

[grave garnet]

i do think that to yet oda is a mastermind when it comes to planning so as long as it is not fully confirmed we can not be 100% sure that being a D is a requirement to become joyboy

[spark relic]

Do you see Kaido's statement? @lunar shell

[lunar shell]

How else do you explain whitebeard words.

Y y I do @spark relic

[worldly maple]

I think roger knew he had a successor but whether or not he knew the nika had to do with that, that is the question imo

[lunar shell]

He is talking like Kaido is. ' you are not joy boy ' / ' you are not the man roger is waiting for Teach '

[spark relic]

Exactly

[tame tendon]

So many theory that the intruders on cover story was bb pirates, idk why but i dont think BB is looking after wci, i think they were targeting luffy fruit. How bout you?

[slow agate]

I think white is perfect and couldnt be more unique and cooler.

[grave garnet]

i'd say that as blackbeard was feared to die, therefore he could simply not be joyboy unlike luffy or roger or ace wich did not feared death ( all D of course)

[worldly maple]

you are making the assumption that

1. whitebeard knew the joyboy story
2. whitebeard knows the nika fruit exists
3. whitebeard knows luffy ate the nika fruit despite having just met him

[fathom lichen]

Roger hasn't exhibited any intentions of freeing slaves or the oppressed from what we know till now; he didn't know of Nika... Whitebeard didn't as well... what they're talking about, the D. is someone different...

[lunar shell]

Anyway its clear that Nika is the natural enemy of the Tenryubito, he is a free spirit and free slave and all you know. Remember : D are natural enemy of the gods.

What more do you want

Joy Boy is born from a D.

[spark relic]

They said they found out everything about the world...Chances are they saw thousands of poneglyphs there and read them and probably got info on Luffy's fruit, as we can see that Roger def knew enough about Joyboy to want to live in his era...But imo Joyboy is not connected to the D's

[slow agate]

I think so too but I kinda hope D is different thing from nika df awakening.

[worldly maple]

is it not established that Roger was following Joyboy's trail in his final voyage?

[inner mesa]

wait am confused, did luffy just summon lighting and hold it or did kaido shoot lightning and luffy grabbed it?

[lunar shell]

1. No, the facts are he knows about the D. story

2. Forget about Nika its complicate thing for no reason. I'm talking about Joy boy here dont I.

3. ???

[spark relic]

If you're saying this that means you're also saying that every person who is a D, is Joyboy???

[worldly maple]

teach is joyboy confirmed

[slow agate]

I think lightning came from the sky naturally. You can see multiple in the sky. I personally think Luffy just turned it into hardened rubber while grabbing it.

[grave garnet]

i think gotama was more about you need to be a D to become joyboy or i missunderstood

[lunar shell]

Wow.

Joy boy is born from a D = Only a D have a hope to have a drumming hearth.

[worldly maple]

yoooo Monkey 'Drums of Liberation' Luffy the D finally makes sense

[fathom lichen]

it isn't established that at all... Roger was only hinted about an unknown hidden island and this prompted him to discover it... I don't see the connection with Joy Boy at all...

[inner mesa]

so luffy just went thor son of oden on us..... one character is not allowed to be this badass man am losing my mind xD

[slow agate]

Hahah. Well, Oda does what he wants and so far I like it 100%

[worldly maple]

doesn't he laugh(tale) because of a note from joyboy? maybe im all mixed up on that flashback

[lunar shell]

D. Being the one able to pop up Joy Boy shouldn't be an argument here tbh. Its basic.

[lime stirrup]

strong world wasn't canon but it was written by oda, so the idea of luffy being able to use an attack involving lightning isn't necessarily just from his awakening

[worldly maple]

It's fiction.. nothing is 'basic' until it is explicitly stated, and it was never explicitly stated afaik

[slow agate]

Also, to me nothing we have seen so far is that far fetched since Luffy basically just turns stuff close to him or what he touches into rubber. Nothing too crazy when you apply anime logic to it

[fathom lichen]

I suspect that's where Eve's Tree is located, the one that bears the fruits of abilities... they were affected just by being near it, they didn't read anything... Eve's tree could also be rubbery...

[inner mesa]

i kinda dropped the anime when i started reading the manga now i cant wait to see this animated

[spark relic]

😂 What are you saying? What do you mean by only the D have a hope to have a drumming heart

[inner mesa]

yeah true, also like that its still him, ik alot of ppl thought he will change personalities cuz he is joyboy or what ever but na he is still our captain

[fathom lichen]

am I the only one that suspects a major troll from Oda having Luffy losing his fruit, dying, and getting resurrected?

[spark relic]

Listen man @lunar shell ...JoyBoy is just a title given to a person who eats the Nika fruit

[lunar shell]

I'm not on the side of those that call fact only things that are explicitly stated.
I say Dragon is linked to the thunder and wind at loguetown, yet I dont have any fact linking to this, only lot and lot and lot of implicit events.

[lunar shell]

Probably. But do know that Luffy = Laughy =(kinda) Joy

[slow agate]

I mean, those were crazy theories and Im glad they didnt come to be. I hope Oda stays within reasonable "turn everything into rubber" limit with nika even if its something crazy like turning living things also or even lightning in the sky.

[grave garnet]

yet his is also named monkey as sun wukong wich also share size extension ability and a link the sun as god not to mention the prick part

[inner mesa]

yeah well they said the limitation for his df is imagination so am not surprised, but man, if u ever told me luffy would have god like powers i wouldve told you thats the worst plot ever, but oda is just built different 🐐

[lunar shell]

I never doubted Luffy was linked to Sun Wukong but I dont see your point. And with recent event, the sun wukong link grew weaker you know^^

[tame tendon]

Whats in dialogue box in cover story?

[slow agate]

I think people took that imagination is the limit stuff way too literally. Its just that rubber gives you that fighting freedom when applied to everywhere. Maybe Im coping but I really hope Oda doesnt go too far with it and stays within rubber stuff (+maybe some fire because of red hawk and other Ace related stuff before)

[winter ocean]

Momo will probably slow the descent enough for them to land on Zou. Or near the flower capital. Kaido will get a mini flashback and go Kaiju through the capital; luffy will knock his Godzilla ass to next week. Party. News about the outside. Endgame.

[spark relic]

If JoyBoy was a D, that means that;
1> Every D should know about him
2> There should have been other Joyboys still from the same D clan
3>The D clan was prerequisite for someone to become Joyboy in the sense that 1 & 2 holds and so the Nika fruit would only be eaten by people from D clan @lunar shell

[lunar shell]

Nice. King Kong > Godzilla duuh.

[inner mesa]

well it has to be some fire stuff tho no? its modeled after SUN god nika, but yeah i understand what ur saying, but at this point i trust oda way too much that idc what he does ik i will love it xD

[grave garnet]

My bad i badly explained it, so it has been clearly established that the ZOan fruits have a kind of personnality and that thye may chose to fly or at contrary be able to let them to be eaten ( i know gorosei stated this only aout gum-gum but gards in impel down are awakaned zoans on wich the animal have taken over the human part )

nika and luffy still look a lot like wukong wich had a lot of forms and oculd basicaly change his weight zie body etc jsut as the new luffy Nika even if belonging to one piece's world does seem to me clearly inspired of wukong yet it is not etablished that joyboy is linked to the D bloodline wich remain a mistery, it could be that they are simply more likely to use demon fruits wich would make it yet not linked with joyboy

[spark relic]

The D clan opposing the CD's has nothing to do with JoyBoy...Because if they did THEY WILL ALL BE JOYBOYS!!! @lunar shell

[lunar shell]

Oh wait I never said Joy Boy was a D. I'm saying his ' reincarnation ' needs to be.

[slow agate]

Yeah I trust him too. Been reading since first arc of the manga and Oda never failed to do stuff well.

[wanton needle]

Stop saying reincarnation

[tame tendon]

Whats on the dialogue box? I think it looks like chocolate bar

[worldly maple]

pretty sure luffy is a reincarnation of ace so everybody just shut up

[naive wolf]

the man finally reachs nirvana

[winter ocean]

Lol. Kaiju is like the only send up Oda has left to do for Japanese pop culture. And I think successor might be better instead of reincarnation

[floral elm]

You guys think luffy can win or no

[worldly maple]

I think he can't lose

[slow agate]

Yes. He already lost 3 times so I think he will win now.

[lunar shell]

dat why I'v put it under quote

[fathom lichen]

why haven't I ever seen anyone mentioning the fact that Luffy's CoH, which made his awakening possible, can affect an Emperor turning him into rubber last chapter? For example, Law couldn't directly affect the Emperors with his ability to teleport them, the awakening of both Law and Kid could affect BM not directly, but to a degree...
Did Luffy inherit CoH from the personality of his zoan fruit? Luffy definitely has a bigger CoH now... it's higher than Kaido since it can affect him...

[winter ocean]

Fair

[worldly maple]

what are the monsters from the mist in the florian triangle wrong answers only

[lunar shell]

Nah it probably smell bad for him. He had a good run thought. Maybe the next manga will have a stronger MC.

[slow agate]

I think Luffy wins now but still needs some time / flashback and Kaido figuring out Luffy is the new joyboy

[spark relic]

No...There isn't any reincarnation here man...Luffy simply just ate the fruit and became him...If you're saying that the reincarnation of Joyboy has to be a D that means there must have been other Joyboys which is contradictory because we know that aside Luffy there was only one other Joyboy 💀

[fathom lichen]

Joyboy, the title, gives CoH improvement helping achieve the moral affinities Joyboy has had... helping the oppressed...

[lunar shell]

Hum. But Poseidon is a reincarnation right ? Also, isn't it prophesied that Joy Boy was to come like : right now ? Reincarnation tends to do as they are told. Random fate that can happen anytime is more troublesome.

[wanton needle]

what is CoH

[grave garnet]

or maybe the COh is directly linked with the number / quality of people that put their faith in you

[worldly maple]

the nika fruit has the nika lineage factor in it, when luffy eats the fruit he taps into the lineage factor, joyboy also had the lineage factor, joyboy and luffy both had nika's heartbeat

[fathom lichen]

it's a matter of will... in special times, under special conditions, said will is inherited... when do people die... when they are forgotten...

[slow agate]

I would even say Luffy isnt even joyboy. He was some old person that is dead now and also happened to have same DF awakened with Luffy. I think there is only D thing that matters and is maybe related to "drums of liberation" which both have and thats why Zunesha makes the joyboy connection. I would like to think every D can theoretically become "joyboy"

[worldly maple]

luffy and joyboy are not connected at all, they had the same fruit and will have similar attributes but they cannot communicate with each other/they are not the same person

[fathom lichen]

Conquerers haki, willpower; it's based upon the mindset of the individual using his own soul, gets improved by the faith given by others (hence being a conquerer) and it's also inherited...

[wanton needle]

So CoC

[fathom lichen]

so Joyboy and Nika are different?! Aren't the two connected somehow?

[worldly maple]

Joyboy was the first avatar of Nika, Luffy is the second, that is what I think

[spark relic]

The previous Joyboy might have had foresight or predicting his successor and joining their lives might have been a perk of the fruit...I know one thing for certain if Luffy was the reincarnation of Joyboy as you likened to Poseidon, he wouldn't have needed to eat the same devil fruit

[slow agate]

Its implied Joyboy had same nika df awakened. Other than that maybe Joyboy was also D. But in the end we dont really know much.

[worldly maple]

I think joyboy made a bet on the future just like shanks.

[lunar shell]

Zun boy said Joy Boy was sleeping for 800 years.

On a side note, I'm troubled about something. Every move you guys make, every breathing, it from or toward a feeling. We would be stone without a will. So inheriting a will is basically being reincarnated. You are the same core dude, just on an other era.

D. are those that somehow can hold the flame of Nika / Joy Boy will. Basically, just like a fruit being able to hold the power of a devil fruit.

[spark relic]

Poseidon is a reincarnation just because

[lunar shell]

Oh so that's why

[amber oar]

It's an exclamation symbol in chocolate bar

[worldly maple]

I don't think JoyBoy was asleep for 800 years. I think he died and Zunesha is naïve

[mellow anchor]

what if luffys fruit is the real one piece, and since nika is supposed to bring happiness, thats why rogers crew was laughing

[slow agate]

I dont like the reincarnation theory and dont believe Oda would do that at all. I hope Luffy just ate the same df than the Joyboy, happened to awaken it and has the will of D (just like many others have btw)

[fathom lichen]

ah... that means, by correlation, that Sabo is similar to Ace after eating that fruit? Like he gained lots of Ace's personality? That would mean Sabo became more like a vigilante?

[lunar shell]

Zunesha never forgot about Joy Boy. The poneglyph hold the memory as well.

[worldly maple]

no, it's not a zoan. Afaik paramecias are going to work differently but zoans are literal living things. Remember the gorosei said that the 'gomu gomu' had a will of its own

[slow agate]

I said that I dont believe thats the case. I think exactly the opposite and believe Luffy is nothing like Joyboy and is his own self and happens to have will of D because of his bloodline (like many others). I think Zunesha makes the connection because of the "drums of liberation" which in my mind is connected to will of D (and maybe awakening a df)

[fathom lichen]

yes, very weird how devil fruit can and are reincarnated with ease into the nearest fruit... possessing it...

[lunar shell]

Will is like the soul yk, if Luffy have the same soul has Joy Boy, they are the same, dont you agree ? If they are the same on different time line, its called reincarnation in my book.

[narrow zealot]

Hopping in here, but I can’t help but think that Luffy being the kind of person that he is (free spirited, adventure seeking, liberator, etc.) is a prerequisite to being “chosen” by the fruit. The celestial dragons mentioned that the fruits had a kind of their own…

[worldly maple]

im not saying she forgot about him, I am saying she remembered his heart beat and so when luffy awakened and he had the same heartbeat as joyboy, she mistook luffy for joyboy because they are both awakened Nika

[slow agate]

I do not think they have the same soul nor do I think souls=will at all. Luffy has inherited D which is connected to "will of D" but a lot of people have that and we dont know what it means.

[worldly maple]

I think Zunesha got her hopes up and will be upset that her JoyBoy is not back.

[lunar shell]

Those fruits are probably made by the ancient kingdom somehow. WG tends to call devil all threat, ask ohara people.

[spark relic]

Yeah...It has nothing to do with JoyBoy being Joyboy...Except if you're implyng that;
1> Joyboy is a fishman
2> He reincarnates so there are many other Joyboys
3> If he reincarnates there has to be a major reason why right? Thus...He is an ancient weapon, which basically makes him the one who the sea kings where talking about or another poseidon
If you say all this then you're wrong because df eaters can't swim so Joyboy can't be a fishman and that alone has dismissed the other options

[worldly maple]

see robin, devil child, much like devil fruit, knowledge and power are ostracized by WG

[lunar shell]

Ok that's a fair debunk. I'm fine with your version.

[fathom lichen]

thank you, I had thought all fruits, not just Zoans have personalities... this makes me wonder about the human models a lot more; Nika and Chopper's... we got to know a little more about Nika, but what of Chopper? Did he inherit something more from his ability?!

[slow agate]

Thanks, I guess we will see at some point

[winter ocean]

I don’t think Poseidon is a renovation, so much as an inherited power. Something that runs through that bloodline and only manifests every so often.

[worldly maple]

He could've.. I personally actually believe that the Zoan fruit are going to be a Noah's arc situation where they were somehow turned into DF, only a few myhticals made it, but they each contain the will of that original animal on the Noah (including Nika, the golden buddha, etc.)

[lunar shell]

Yes. Whenever we hear Joy Boy story.

[fathom lichen]

Luffy gaining telepathy, or talking loudly with his mind seems to be a trait of the will of D and not Nika; Luffy first heard the Sea Kings, same as Roger, then Zunisha, and after loosing the fight with Kaido, while in water, he talked telepathically with Momo saying he'll win and he used his voice to be found by Law's crew...

[worldly maple]

Momonosuke has the voice of all things and is not a D, correct?

[amber shoal]

could you say that gol.d roger was a pseudo joyboy just asking

[lunar shell]

Its just that.. Luffy is telling the same thing Joy boy said to Poseidon.
He have the Nika fruit like him ( y y its confirmed by zunesha )
He is prophesied for me such a thing can only happen by reincarnation ( every 1000 y the king are born yk things like that ) or if someone from the future ( end of one piece ) go into the past and tell everyone.

So I do think Luffy ( laughy ) is the second piece of Joy Boy story. D is the second part of a reverse D and that make Ø you know, the one piece. Thank you Roger from bringing the world upside down 😄

Anyway bed time for me

[fathom lichen]

IT'S A MANDATORY PREREQUISITE TO BEING JOYBOY THAT ONE MUST BE A D, WHILE HAVING THE SAID NIKA MODEL AS JOYBOY IS 100% CONFIRMATION...

[worldly maple]

yes but missing the fruit, that is literally it, it seems. Seems a bit cheap

[amber shoal]

k, thx for the context

[worldly maple]

I think the real thing that made JoyBoy who he was is the fruit, though

[fathom lichen]

Black beard is a D but lacking the mindset of freeing others as Nika displayed, hence Whitebeard saying BB is not the one Roger was waiting for... BB thinks that Luffy's fruit will help him though, and that's why we got to see Luffy getting targeted...

[lunar shell]

Bold, the chance for Joy Boy going into a fruit and becoming the gomu gomu ( Nika ) is high thought.