manga-theories

[ripe plume]

sadboy is wow

[prime bluff]

No one thinks that my theory can be true
Joyboy wouldn't punish someone
But will of d member like Blackbeard or rocks d xebec
Or maybe orochi. Previous version will do

[leaden trench]

Any SBS or something on why this girls lookalike ?

[steady prism]

That’s fair, it was a long time ago. If you go to the wiki, even they say that this happened:

The Shandia is a tribe of people originating from the Moon and later lived on Jaya. They currently reside within Skypiea.

[ripe plume]

Orochi isn't D member?

[steady prism]

You can follow their chapter references to see where it was said. I admit I don’t remember exactly where either

[formal bridge]

Yeah found it thanks

[ripe plume]

maybe

[abstract pond]

They all some kind of princess. Which opens possibilities for Nami's past.

[formal bridge]

So why did so many people leave moon does that link to history too?

[leaden trench]

That's what I'm leading into

[weary scarab]

bro first off this is an Anime picture
even if they look similar in the manga there are some slight differences

[leaden trench]

Oh ok

[prime bluff]

Zunesha was a nakama of joy boy
1.There were 2 will of D member one was joyboy And let other be sadboy When joyboy was defeated for unknown reasons Sadboy punished zunesha for being a nakama to joyboy to roam sea For example take sad boy as Blackbeard and Joyboy as luffy

2. Joyboy wouldn't punish someone But it can also be someone like orochi version 800 years ago would have punish someone

It can be compared to orochi making oden dance for so many years

[pure raven]

what if the one piece is just a paper with a horrible dad joke?

[prime bluff]

Updated theory

[prime bluff]

It can be considered it's was luffy treasure

[ripe plume]

The sadboy theory slightly makes sense. But Im sure it wouldnt be "sadboy" Because some could be wills of Joyboy like Luffy, Oden. but "sadboy" D Xebec and BB.
not sure

[azure dust]

I think shanks talked about luffy with 5 elders that would make it a good plot twist + they start talking about luffy's fruit right when shanks leaves

[formal bridge]

Does that mean sadboy was goodboi?

[leaden trench]

It's IMU?

[formal bridge]

So badboi

[prime bluff]

It can be imu
Or it can be previous version of orochi

[steady prism]

I don’t know. One things for sure: they all have this dream/folktale about going back to their home “fairy vearth”. There are a lot of theories as to why they left, I’d recommend looking around. Tbh I think that during the void century, their minds were “wiped” and their culture was “modified” such that Shandians sacrifice one of their own to the sun god and ultimately they don’t remember the important parts of their history. Maybe the WG decided that Sky people didn’t need to be wiped out, unlike Lunarians and 3-eyed tribe, who were most likely “lights” that had to be wiped out in the past (this is headcannon)

[ripe plume]

Why would Sad boy punish anyone for harming Joyboy? Or is it that Sadboy defeated Joyboy, and punished Zunesha for going with JB instead of SB

[cunning hollow]

I feel like nika is gonna get mad st luffy or smth and luffy gonna have to fight nika and he get best the fuck up but then his crew steps in and fucking obliterates nika, usopp gets his haki, chopper turns into the largest monster ever, nami now has the power to summon any weather on command no cloud or staff needed, and sanji dies in sacrifice for Zoro causing zoro to go beast mode and use imaginary sword style 10 swords and destroy 5 islands what yall think 😈😈😈

[fierce shale]

I think there’s more Nami variants

[formal bridge]

Sun god means nika then?

[leaden trench]

Shiraoshi another princess

[steady prism]

Yes. Skypiea was actually the first time we were introduced to the idea of a “sun god” in OP. Maybe the WG chose to warp the idea of Nika from a freedom fighter to a despicable god that take sacrifices

[prime bluff]

It can be that too
Can imu talk to zunesha
Because sad boi should be able to talk to zunesha to punish him

[formal bridge]

Cool then luffy is their true god

[steady prism]

That or “the prophet” of their true god

[ripe plume]

I also saw something, that
Imu backwards is Umi = Sea
Imu is based off Chinese Mythos shuimu which is a water demon.

[prime bluff]

Zoro is now in soul society

[formal bridge]

Maybe he created df

[cunning hollow]

Lets gooo

[ripe plume]

He def did, the theory said that but I forgot the paragraph he wrote

So cant say without evidence

[formal bridge]

That makes sense

[iron lion]

@steady prismI think you can extend this further. The WG in the past during the void century probably engaged in a genocide of other races like the Lunarians in order to establish the 20 kingdoms dominance over the world. They then permanently divided it up creating an artificial landmass on top of the world ie the redline.

[ripe plume]

Found theory Okay so theory here says. Nothing I will just send the pic.

[formal bridge]

Guys do you think there are other gods too? Like god of sea can be dragon.

[ripe plume]

when you cant attach files ;-;

[iron lion]

I mean there are references to other gods in that skypiea sacrifice scene in the flashback

[formal bridge]

There are buddha and nika only rn

[prime bluff]

We need a theory theory ni fruit

[leaden trench]

Not far fetched those old man maybe 🤔

[errant thicket]

you mean god fruits or just gods?

[formal bridge]

Gorosei?

[formal bridge]

God df like luffy and sengoku

[leaden trench]

Yeah maybe since they are top so they maybe strong who knows

[ripe plume]

Ill type:
By @low geyserAirr Twitter
"Imu is based off the Sea devil Shuimu from Chinese Mythology... Devil fruits are stated to be Incarnations of the Sea devil. Imu backwards means Sea. And Im backwards means fruit. Shuimu wears black attire and carries a sword like Imu. And was eventually defeated by the Monkey King."

[errant thicket]

I feel like Dragon could have one but idk

[errant thicket]

Like the wind god's fruit or smthng

[formal bridge]

That could be true imu fighting luffy in the end

[ripe plume]

Yeah

[steady prism]

Agreed, it’s possible they’ve committed genocide against ancient giants, Onis, etc. Lunarians had to be killed if they wanted to establish Mariejois. The red line……imo I’m leaning towards the idea that it already existed (at least most of it) and Joyboy wanted to destroy it. So that’s not exactly against your idea right at the end, but I wanna think that the WG wanted to maintain the status quo and Joyboy wanted to change it

[formal bridge]

Not exactly i think void century was a time of harmony or people with d roamed free

[steady prism]

………..ohhh snap the monkey king? Yep this reeks of One Piece. Tbf idk much about Japanese words so I’ll take that with a grain of salt. But since this is rooted in Chinese mythology then it is a pretty good theory 👍

[iron lion]

I don't know about the giants. But I do think you're right on the idea there was an alliance amongst the 20 kingdoms in some capacity and that there was prior history BEFORE the Void Century. Otherwise the world's history feels a bit empty, like "nothing happened for thousands of years and then stuff went down"

[steady prism]

That’s true and entirely possible as well.

[formal bridge]

Btw does anyone think god ussop is kind of some indication to us?

[errant thicket]

I wish lmao

[ripe plume]

Could it be that they used Some device or weapon or an Ancient weapon to convince the people of the world to stay hush, and eventually because knowledge wasnt passed down... Everyone forgot?

[steady prism]

He’ll be the third Hito user - Hito-Hito no mi: Model Pinocchio /s

[formal bridge]

@errant thicket maybe he will get a fruit too coz he is not the best swimmer anyway

[ivory finch]

I have a theory, So what if Dragon is the god of the rain, Luffy is the god of the sun, The god of the earth was whitebeard but is now blackbeard, and now all we need to know is who is the god of earth

[errant thicket]

Usopp gets the Loki Loki no mi lmao

[steady prism]

Remember Sugar from dressrosa? Her powers are too perfect for exactly this

[formal bridge]

Dragon is god of sea

[errant thicket]

trickster god fruit

[ripe plume]

Sun/Moon and?

[formal bridge]

Hito hito no mi model: Neptune

[tall flint]

do you guys think 'eyes' might play an important role later?
there were many references of luffys eyes, "it stares me down even when knocked out" "your eyes dont lose hope" and his eyes being similar to imu mihawk zunisha after gear 5
i think eyes might have something important

[ripe plume]

Imu is more likely to be,

[formal bridge]

@ripe plume imu is more likely to have created all the fruits

[errant thicket]

Imu could have eaten the kami kami no mi ig but it would surprise me a lot

[formal bridge]

@errant thicket would that be zoan or what?

[errant thicket]

I don't think it would have a type

[steady prism]

Imu seem to be the clairvoyant type. Whether that’s because of the Voice of All Things or her df I wouldn’t know

[sudden patio]

Do they talk about the gomu gomu no mi?

[steady prism]

Yes

[formal bridge]

Imo dragon is better choice as god of sea

[bitter kraken]

I think imu is more likely a con type character similar to buggy but not funny, and he for sure had the eternal youth surgery performed on him. It would explain why doffy a former celestial knew about it

[sudden patio]

Oda is a literal genious

[sinful wolf]

My mind was blown when someone mentioned the start of the song of "we are". The drum beat there really resemble the drum sound of liberation. So Oda was planning this from the beginning. haha. Can someone check this out? And like most guys I see a resemblance like Thriller Bark and Zoro had an important part there after the defeat of Moriah, So something is destined for Zoro after/or end phase Kaido. (also hinted by binks sake to the moon lyrics and the same context of zoro situation like Luffy a few chapters ago)

[pure raven]

this

[jaunty stump]

what's the reference for the "drum sound of liberation"? Is there some SFX released or something

[formal bridge]

Why do you think zunesha came to wano voz of luffy or momo

[ivory finch]

i going by what it said, it says that there is a god of the sun, earth, rain, and forest, not the sea

[slim marsh]

ay Shanks is a villain now? why did he steal the fruit

[sinful wolf]

no just the song: "we are" starts with a drum sound. The first one piece opening song

[jaunty stump]

lol ok

[bitter kraken]

We don’t know enough to say shanks is a villain but he sure is shady af

[jaunty stump]

people will reach for anything I guess

[formal bridge]

Buddha isn't god of anything though

[steady prism]

That’s a great question. I’m not sure who beckoned Zuneisha. Maybe the minks helped guide him to Wano given their activity in the raid, but kept him hidden. Imo that’s a reasonable explanation. Then when Zuneisha heard Luffy’s voice, he came closer, which made him come into view of those marine ships, because he was excited to hear Joyboy’s voice/heartbeat

[pure raven]

Spoiler for chapter 1044 ||I'm just saying, I think the swirls on luffys gomu gomu fruit are fairly similar to other hito hito fruits and I believe that was a hint from the very start||

[late token]

Nah bro how fast is zunesha supposed to be … he has to have been called at least 1 day ago or smth

[ripe plume]

?

[formal bridge]

I don't think minks can hear or even talk to zunesha even kicking jack was order from momo

[ivory finch]

i didn’t mention the buddha, i said that luffy is the sun god, whitebeard/blackbeard is the earth god, and that dragon is the rain god

[formal bridge]

It's big take that into consideration too

[steady prism]

That’s true. In that case, I’d guess Momo “encouraged” him to follow the Minks to Wano

[formal bridge]

I meant that buddha exist as a fruit and is called god in op doesn't mean others gods cannot exist

[steady prism]

Who knows dude he probably jogged over idk the fact is he’s there and someone must have helped guide him

[outer edge]

To people still looking for true user of gomu gomu since luffy has hito hito

[pure raven]

Maybe the government just swapped their names around

Or nobody expected the hito hito to do that since no human had been known to eat one before

[outer edge]

Basically they said model for a reason
As in the will that is in it and yes the gomu gomu no is still with luffy

[late token]

I guess Momo unconsciously called him when he got sacked by kanjuro or smth. Then zunesha at least has some time to make the walk to wano

[formal bridge]

What model is chopper

[terse fog]

I think this is very likely to be true and if it is true it would also help Zoro’s bounty go up considerably. Plus who would it be? When it was with gecko Moria it was another warlord so another emperor? But that would be impossible for zoro to handle with him being at his limit and a fresh Yonko? An admiral? The issue is who?

[steady prism]

It’s def possible. Anyway peeps, I’m out 👋

[late token]

Hito hito Model: regular ass dude

[vale stump]

HITO HITO NO MI: MODEL NIKA

[late token]

Have a gud one

[pure raven]

True, hito hito does still look dif4. I forgot gomu gomu is technically just a different hito hito and not the same hito hito that chopper ate, unless it is and a human eating a human human fruit makes the human feel everything there is to being a juman5

[outer edge]

Just a human no actual will mentioned like this one having nika

[desert notch]

so i know there are people against the "sanji is a lunarian" theory. but what evidence disproves it

[terse fog]

What evidence proves that? Besides his fire. I think he has dna that was taken from a lunarion but not is. After all judge was part of MADS and king was a lab rat with Kaido and vegapunk was probably the scienctist who also was on mads

[outer edge]

Wtf

[late token]

What evidence proves it?

[formal bridge]

Does that mean if a human ate that one it wouldn't work

[late token]

Probably ^^

[desert notch]

sanji having fire conjuring abilities,which could only be legitimately made by the flame flame fruit,the phonix fruit and lunarians. also,judge and vegapunk had experimented on lunarians before

[late token]

You would just lose the ability to swim ^^

[formal bridge]

Or it could be chopper just doesn't know it yet like luffy

[vale stump]

Why was my message deleted

[outer edge]

I mean the only reason this fruit of luffy is highlighted coz the will is of no normal human

[terse fog]

Also I updated my previous message to this question

[desert notch]

you would probably end up being a jacked,better version of yourself

[vale stump]

Isn't this a manga theories channel

[formal bridge]

Lol

[desert notch]

yeah i meant like that

he got lunarian genes from experimentation

[late token]

We have seen so many fire abilities that were not explained so this isn’t enough for me. ^^ im neither convinced he has lunarian dna nor am I convinced he doesn’t ^^ to me it’s open

[formal bridge]

Also gomu gomu no mi too

[outer edge]

Like legit how much do u knw about em that u pointing out that sanji can be one of em

[terse fog]

Also if zoro has more to do in this arc who do you think his opponent would even be?

[desert notch]

you mean the gear 5 version? yeah that too.

[formal bridge]

@desert notch red hawk too

[outer edge]

Grim reaper rn

[late token]

Would love for chopper to get a power up but I don’t think it will happen

[lavish verge]

maybe it because of the sun god which is luffy and luffy unknownly gave it to him

[meager prawn]

hey guys, was it ever revealed what was on the poneglyph in alabasta? did robin share the info?

[late token]

Don’t think so

[formal bridge]

I mean he is just using physical aspect of zoan like luffy only

[desert notch]

could you elaborate on this more? what do you mean luffy gave it to him? like some kind of virus?

[meager prawn]

she probablly knows where pluton is but never mentioned it right?

[terse fog]

I think that is Emma and I am thinking to have a black blade you must defeat the sword itself since they are stated to have a mind of their own kinda. This is like bleach though so not an original writing idea. Because Emma is called the king of hell.

[outer edge]

Oda might hav just started to explain bits of this zoan will and might take a while to understand this coz i too believe this is an ass pull so bare with me

[lavish verge]

idk like some kind of passing idk

[formal bridge]

He had fire ability on cocoyashi too

[late token]

Could be ^^ but the porneglyph could also have no info on pluton at all ^^

[outer edge]

So bankai zoro

[formal bridge]

Before even luffy used fire

[terse fog]

Yeah basically

[lavish verge]

maybe that reaper will fight zoro with zoro having 2 sword without enma or maybe with enma

[silver sphinx]

We’ve seen a picture of Enma’s manifestation in an SBS. It does not look like a grim reaper.

[formal bridge]

Btw anyone think luffy will ever use sword? Like nightmare luffy

[terse fog]

Wait we did? If so can I get an image

[late token]

Wasn’t that wado ichimonji?

[silver sphinx]

I’m pretty sure it was for three of his swords including Emma

[terse fog]

If it is wado and not Emma that it probably is Emma we are seeing right now

[desert notch]

he did that by creating friction (which could have easily been powered by his unawakened lunarian abilities)

[errant thicket]

He could use the giant one in onigashima and cut kaido in half but i doubt he will ever use a sword again

[formal bridge]

Like is nightmare luffy some kind of foreshadowing

[late token]

And I’m pretty sure he didn’t have enma when oda drew his swords^^

[silver sphinx]

If I’m wrong then I still doubt that Emma looks like a Western style Grim Reaper lol

[late token]

Yeah me too

[outer edge]

It was already of g4

[viral sluice]

is chopper the human human fruit eater

[formal bridge]

Yeah

[terse fog]

See I agree with that it would not look like that whoever I can’t base a theory entirely based on prefences of looks

[outer edge]

Yea now u ppl can stop looking for gomu gomu no user

[silver sphinx]

Ah I was thinking of shusui

[formal bridge]

I meant sword aspect also nika is shown with weapon

[outer edge]

Like legit cant imagine ppl told me and made me think his fruit aint gomu gomu no any more

[late token]

Wado ichimonji looks like the smith though ^^

[fossil panther]

I wonder if he can make that weapon from rubber

[silver sphinx]

But yeah, Emma ain’t no badass grim reaper. He’s looking like a hillbilly

[late token]

Yeah I have no idea what that grim reaper is ^^ but I hope it’s just the after effects of the mink drugs

[terse fog]

No Emma in that picture

[pseudo basin]

Enma guys , emma is my ex girlfriend

[late token]

Pls enma guys

[outer edge]

He between life and death
Grim reaper finally got zoro for cheating death as a non mc

[formal bridge]

Enma

[lavish verge]

imagine zoro dying without become the best swordsmen

[late token]

Would like that more than the reaper being some kind of manifestation of a sword

[outer edge]

So queen of hell huh?

[formal bridge]

Maybe gomu gomu no mi also exists without anything too op.

[pseudo basin]

You have no idea bro,

[late token]

Maybe somewhere in the grand line there is a guy who has been running from the WG the entire time and he just has the regular gomu gomu no mi. Like duval being mistaken for sanji ^^

[outer edge]

Gomu gomu no is there its just hito hito model of nika is the awakening
Its not like gomu gomu just vanished or is a fake name by the wg

[formal bridge]

@late token lol right

@outer edge maybe they tried to fake it under alias of real gomu gomu no mi

I mean nobody would know if they can't awaken it

[outer edge]

Ofc coz no one has awakened it for 800 years

[outer edge]

The fruit is hiding itself

[late token]

We don’t know if there is an actual gomu gomu no mi but if there is I think it would be funny if there is some random dude who had to run from the navy his whole life

[formal bridge]

Is that fruit sentient?

[outer edge]

Sentient?

[formal bridge]

I mean able to think for itself

[outer edge]

Last man to awaken it was joyboy pbl

[silver sphinx]

Do all mythical Zoans need to awaken before their true power can be used? If we assume kaido needed to work for his dragon form cuz of the gyardos mythos, Marco could’ve needed to die before he could’ve used his Phoenix powers, and ofc we know about luffy. So if chopper was a mythical zoan, he could still awaken and gain a true power. Personally I would love it if his awakening showed his df was different than a base human fruit and maybe like a giant fruit.

[outer edge]

No it just has a will not like an actual mind to make it fly
Like a soul that faintly interacts i guess

[late token]

Hito Hito Model: doctor ^^

[formal bridge]

Yeah will is included in sentient beings

[silver sphinx]

Idk much about the Buddhist’s life but Ik it wasn’t ez. So perhaps sengoku went thru something similar as well.

[outer edge]

Zoan hav wills
So a human fruit is a zoan
Animal wills in a fruit dont lead em to start wars or fight for freedom u knw

[formal bridge]

You think it was the fruit all along that wanted to get eaten by luffy.

[outer edge]

No

[formal bridge]

But that would be amazing

[outer edge]

Maybe it was looking for a match no mattee how many years it took coz even if luffy wasnt the right guy it wouldnt awaken thats all

[formal bridge]

Also anyone knows what happened to toki toki no mi

[late token]

Don’t think they showed that yet

[outer edge]

No idea who found that shit

[formal bridge]

Yeah maybe the fruit sensed luffy's will of d

[outer edge]

I need to brush up how the fat ninja girl made momo 20+

[formal bridge]

Maybe sabo will get it

[late token]

What would He do with that? ^^

[formal bridge]

Her fruit can mature anything like a fruit can also get ripe

[outer edge]

If i could save time in a bottle

[late token]

Chapter 1023 I think

[silver sphinx]

why does Vearth look like Jinbei.

[formal bridge]

Lol

[outer edge]

Since its been 20+ years that fruit out of wano like the other 2 or not found yet

[formal bridge]

Do you think kaido has it

[outer edge]

Somthing as op as that just doesnt leave the story so ez

[silver sphinx]

I was going back to find all the deities of one Piece and found Vearth, one of skypeia’s deities

[late token]

Why is it op though? It just sends you into the future

[elfin sluice]

Y'all got the worst theorys. Monkey God luffy? What's next, boob empress nami? Furry king chopper

[formal bridge]

@late token op for ussop he can run away

[late token]

Wasn’t vearth their name for dirt?

[outer edge]

Future.....
Like literally messin with time

[formal bridge]

Vearth can also mean land

[late token]

Yeah only useful thing it can do is run away ^^

[silver sphinx]

It is but also the name of that dude in the image.

[outer edge]

Who even gave u that title

[late token]

Can you give me a chapter where I can read that up?

[sudden patio]

Kid the goat fr

[late token]

Yeah but you don’t mess with time when you go into future. You just run from your current time and can’t change the future or the past

[silver sphinx]

Chapter 244

[late token]

Ty will check

[formal bridge]

You can tell them history and everything they knew about df

[zealous path]

Is there a character that could possibly EVEN TOUCH Monkey D. Luffy? Let alone defeat him. And I'm not talking about Gear 2nd Monkey D. Luffy. I'm not talking about Soru Red Hawk Gear 2nd Monkey D. Luffy either. Hell, I'm not even talking about Soru Red Hawk Hone Fuusen Gigant Bazooka Gear 2nd + 3rd Gigant Jet Shell Grizzly Magnum Elephant Gatling Monkey D. Luffy (with the Busoshoku Haki abilities being capable of Emission, Internal Destruction and hardening), Kenbushoku Haki with the ability to sense the presence of others, the strength of others, the emotions of others, the intent of others, and with highly advanced Kenbunshoku Haki that enables future sight, Haoshoku Haki (the color of the Supreme King version) with its domination and incapacitation techniques, with pressure, Haoshoku Haki infusion, before going into Kinniku Fusen Gear 4th Boundman embedded with the Busoshoku Haki and the color the Supreme King with his Python, Kong Gun, Rhino Schneider, Culverin (and Double Culverin and Kong Organ), Leo Bazooka and King Kong Gun abilities and flexability to switch into Snakeman with the abilities of Gomu Gomu no Jet Culverin, Black Mamba, King Cobra and Hydra.

I'm definitely NOT talking about the sage mode sage of the six paths Gear 5th Ultra Instinct Super Saiyan 4 Resin Monkey God Pre-Awakened state with the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, Rinnegan, Mystic Eyes of Death Perception, and Geass doujutsus. I'm talking about the Awakened Smiling Resin Monkey God Joy Boy Reincarnated Hito-Hito no Mi: Model Nika Popeye Xehanort Super Saiyan God Baryon Mode Sun Overlord as the creator of the world, the one chosen to obtain the One Piece and the truth to the Void Century, with the abilities of The Mask, Bugs Bunny and Plastic Man, equipped with Toon Force and making a gag out of a plotline for a laugh and nullifying the prowess of all characters, the one destined to destroy the Gorousei, reach Laugh Tale and obtain One Piece.

[late token]

Sure but what happened in the past 20 years that is not known by anybody in the OP verse?

[formal bridge]

Bb

Just attract and nullify his fruit or quake the shit out of luffy

[late token]

I think the name depends on the translation ^^

[formal bridge]

Luffy isn't strong rn if his fruit is nullified only haki no raw power

[formal bridge]

Rn i think luffy needs raw power more than df upgrade or haki

[desert notch]

what do y'all think,what is kizaru's true intentions? like most characters in OP have a solid grasp on justice. but we don't really know shit about kizaru

[formal bridge]

He is kinda like garp i think 🤣

[pure raven]

Luffys raw power is insane

Luffy is quite complete as a fighter rn.

[formal bridge]

Without df if he gets stuck in sea stone he is very weak also without haki

[ionic kelp]

so, remember how in Skypia, we learned there was a Sun God, an Earth God, a Rain God, and a Sky God that the ancients worshiped. Maybe the Gura Gura no mi is the Earth God's fruit, Goro Goro no mi is the Sky God's fruit, and then Imu may posses whatever the rain god fruit is.

[pure raven]

What on earth are you saying my man. The guy beat Haki abled users pre timeskip without haki. The man was able to punch Doflamingo through thr whole of dressrosa.

[shadow flume]

Gura Gura no mi has to show more feats to be considered god fruit tbh

[formal bridge]

I mean he can fight with haki even with sea stone on but if the other person has raw strength more than luffy then he is done

[desert notch]

the goro goro no mi is more about rain than about the sky tbh

[pure raven]

Name someone who isn’t a yonko or not garp that has more raw strength than Luffy.

[formal bridge]

BB rn

[late token]

But why would goru goru and gura gura be so special? What about all the other strong fruits why are the not referred to as gods?

[pure raven]

HELL NO? Luffys raw strength is much better than BBs BB is a yonko too

[formal bridge]

And he can nullify his fruit too

[pure raven]

We are talking about raw strength alone. Which he is quite literally matching Kaido in right now.

[ionic kelp]

Gura Gura is connected to the Earth, Goro Goro is connected to the Sky, or Rain depending on interpretation

[ionic kelp]

https://tenor.com/view/barba-branca-shirohige-whitebeard-gif-18076097

[formal bridge]

Actually the whole context of me saying was that he needs raw power rn more than anything if he has to defeat bb coz he can nullify df of luffy

[pure raven]

There are many elements to the sky and land. Seemingly Dragon was able to manipulate weather, wind, summon rain and strike a lightning bolt.

[late token]

Yeah but there are other fruits you can apply this to as well

[ionic kelp]

yes, but those are two of the most powerful fruits we've seen, both being capable of destroying entire Islands

[late token]

Not sure. BB almos killed ace with one punch

[pure raven]

You think Luffy would be physically weak without DF? That’s very false.

[ionic kelp]

seems pretty godlike to me by One Piece standards

[formal bridge]

If he fight bb

[warm edge]

that's a theory a friend of mine had

[formal bridge]

Yami yami no mi is too op

[pure raven]

Okay if Shanks fought BB in Marineford who would have won? Shanks matched old WB in the clash and now Luffy has been fighting with Kaido along all of his forms base included.

[alpine fog]

This is my theory about Blackbeard

[pure raven]

Kaido is probably stronger physically than old WB

[late token]

I think ice, magma, light and gravitation also have the power to destroy islands

[formal bridge]

Do you even remember how badly was bb beaten by wb ofcourse he would run he is way too smart

[ionic kelp]

yes, but I'm specifically refering to ones that fit the theme of the gods mentioned in Skypia

[late token]

Would have to go with BB. BB scarred shanks with no fruits

[formal bridge]

That's asking bb to fight 2 wb and all marines

[pure raven]

? We literally don’t know how that happened though? Going buy this logic then Zoro > Luffy because he scarred Kaido with no fruit.

[patent lantern]

Luffy bounty will be 5,560,000,00 after wano

[formal bridge]

I am saying bb would lose but only because wb already beat him black and blue

[late token]

Gravitation = earth, light = sky … it’s really easy to draw connections if u want to

[late token]

Yeah we don’t. Just like we have no idea how strong shanks is. But I know how strong BB is so I go with BB

[desert notch]

any of the admirals,old admirals,dragon,blackbeard,zoro. his df powers are broken but he's not nearly the strongest physical strenght

[formal bridge]

Also wb already beat him bloody

[silver sphinx]

Varse is what Viz media calls Vearth. They also call Zoro as Zolo and Nekomamushi as Cat Viper.

[ionic kelp]

light is fair, but I think the Gura Gura no Mi has a much more concrete connection to the Earth, and is said to be capable of world destruction, at least thats what the WG says, so it may have some great significance

[formal bridge]

Viz media translation sucks

[late token]

Sure sure. I just don’t like to jump to conclusion without hard evidence 🙂 you might be right but to me there is no evidence

[late token]

Ah Ty. You got a picture with the correct translation?

[formal bridge]

What do you think about pika pika no mi

[silver sphinx]

Yeah one sec

[ionic kelp]

there is circumstantial evidence based on the emphasis on the significance of the Goro Goro and Gura Gura, but this is just the budding idea of a theory. I haven't finished it yet anyway.

[formal bridge]

Pika pika no mi vs goro goro no mi

[late token]

Would also be a contender for earth god

[formal bridge]

Kizaru one not the pica one

[late token]

Oh sorry ^^ what’s the one from pica Called

[formal bridge]

Pica pica no mi

[ionic kelp]

I was about to say...

[formal bridge]

It's c

[ionic kelp]

oh, Suna Suna no Mi! I forgot it!

[formal bridge]

@ionic kelp suna is crocodile one

[wide sail]

luffy could possibly be able to go into his gears while in his mythical zoan form, if you look at the last page you can see him manipulate the cement and while pulling it he went gear 4th w/o haki

[ionic kelp]

How could I call myself Crocodile stan and have fogotten that fruit?!

[late token]

Haha ^^

[silver sphinx]

Thought it was worth showing Luffy’s reaction as well

[late token]

Thank you 🙂

[formal bridge]

Those gears are part of his fruit

[wide sail]

nah i mean like while he’s in his zoan form he used gear 4th

[late token]

Also the First Panels are interesting. Usopp recognizes it as art because he also is a god

[wide sail]

or at least his body changed into the shape of bounce man

[silver sphinx]

Lmao

[formal bridge]

That's what i am saying his true power is he can become anything he imagines

[silver sphinx]

Usopp could also be tied to a god like luffy is tho. His lies do come true after all. I wouldn’t doubt Oda after 1044

[wide sail]

i’m curious if there’s draw back for that form tho like there was w gear 2nd

[astral oxide]

ay are we seriously saying Luffy has 'Toon force' I didnt interpret it like that at all///

[formal bridge]

I think even the drawback from gear two and. Three was due to his imagination not limitations of fruit

[late token]

Yeah too many connections ^^ I am open for everything

[formal bridge]

@late token what df does suit ussop most not saying he will eat one

[late token]

That’s pretty much how I understood it. Not to a looney tunes/the mask degree but still kinda

[late token]

I have no idea but I would love it if he were able to fly like a falcon and shoot at people from the sky

[astral oxide]

interesting, i took it to be he has unlimited potential only stopping with his creativity

[late token]

Isn’t that pretty much toon force?

[formal bridge]

I think raid suit will suit him more 🤣

[late token]

Would be cool and then he can work on it an integrate his green stuff

[formal bridge]

Also franky too

[modest skiff]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using #manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description.

[modest skiff]

We try to divert discussions like this to #manga rather than the theories channel

We ask people to try to only use this channel for in depth theories discussions

[formal bridge]

Sorry about that

@modest skiff why do you think bb can have more than one df

[astral oxide]

not how i understand it, to me toon force is pretty much manipulating reality, making things like hammers squish people etc, absurd stuff. I could be wrong but i thought the line about luffys potential was only in reference to his journey so far pretty much. Gum gum wasnt great and luffys imagination made it great

and he will continue to do so

[late token]

Sorry will switch to also-manga

[silver sphinx]

Are devil fruits the only way to manifest the powers of past gods? I think Usopp will not get a devil fruit because it doesn’t suit his character and instead he will become “godlyhood” in another way- Usopp’s way.

[desert notch]

i took it as "he can do anything with rubber,only stopping with his creativity". like he being able to do literally anything sounds so lame

[formal bridge]

I don't think oda will give ussop any serious power up

[astral oxide]

yeah thats what i meant but you worded it better

[formal bridge]

Only to make people laugh

[silver sphinx]

Bruh. He can’t stay in the background forever. He’s got to be able to keep up with the rest of the crew somehow. Especially after his captain nearly died.

[formal bridge]

I mean by that he will get power up but they won't be anything serious only funny ways to make him stronger

[tired star]

how important do we think it is that the gorosei stated zoan fruits have a mind of their own? does this possibly tie to the origins of devil fruits?

[formal bridge]

I mean if oda wanted us to take ussop seriously he would get gun not a Slingshot

[formal bridge]

Mythical zoan not zoan

[silver sphinx]

Nah I think there is way too much evidence of Usopp having connections with former great heroes and other great connections.

[tired star]

im pretty sure all zoan fruits do. this explains how inanimate objects can be fed a zoan

[formal bridge]

Yeah that thing is still a mystery

[pure raven]

Im talking about pure physical we have basically seen nothing from any one of those. Zoro maybe debatable though.

[tired star]

my theory current theory is that devil fruits havent always existed but something terrible happend that sealed to souls of actual people in these fruits. Hence them having a will/mind

[silver sphinx]

Now that Sun God Nika is a thing, you don’t think that the epithet “God Usopp” was thrown in there only for a laugh? In a manga with “devil” fruits and “celestial” dragons, Robin’s “demon” epithet or Doffy’s “Heavenly Demon” epithet and races with wings on their backs? These god and devil themes have been in One Piece since the beginning.

[late token]

I hope we never get an explanation where devil fruits come from. Would be cooler if they are just part of the world building

[tired star]

also i think it was confimed the gorosei are immortal this chapter because they said "ever era the fruit escapes us" this implies they have been around for many era's

[desert notch]

zoro is a king of hell. but sanji?

[glossy otter]

#1. The will of the D #2. The power to hear and speak to everything #3. The power to make many friends/comrades #4 The straw-hat similar to the one with Inu sama #5. The nika devil fruit… it seems that the reasons scaring the world government are increasing!

[tired star]

personally i think celestial dragons, the will of D and devil fruits are all related somehow

[formal bridge]

Does that mean they are more than 800 years old

[tired star]

maybe. i think they have all had the immortality surgery from the ope ope no mi for sure

[formal bridge]

That means they sacrificed 5 great doctors atleast

[glossy otter]

They can also mean us as in world government

[tired star]

yes, explains why they were buying the fruit back aswell

[tired star]

your right it definitley could i still feel like the secrets of the void century is not something they would pass around

[lunar shell]

The Navagraha developed from early works of astrology over time. Saturn and various classical planets were referenced in the Atharvaveda around 1000 BCE. The Navagraha was furthered by additional contributions from Western Asia, including Zoroastrian and Hellenistic influences.

Navagraha are nine heavenly bodies and deities that influence human life on Earth

Only one of the nine are relevent for us here : Chandra, the moon. Chandra = Shandora. Ener use gold of this city to reach the moon.

Note that the Earth, Uranus, Neptune ( Equivalent of Poseidon in Greece ) and Pluto are not included in the Navagraha.

Just saying.

[formal bridge]

Why not uranus?

[late token]

9 deities like 9 members of straw hats?

[livid mantle]

So the pirate that Shanks when to talk to the Gorosei about was luffy, because somehow he know the trigger to awaken the fruit, so outright after this idk if Luffy will know how to properly use the awaken form freely then again he has chopper so maybe he can help him but now I feel like Elbaf may be where Shanks is will be needed to train Luffy 1 last time before the final war and also we need Elbaf for Usopp too

[lunar shell]

@formal bridge I dont know xD But its funny to notice that coincidentally, All ancient weapon from one piece are not part of Navagraha

[tired star]

i dont think shanks is going to be an ally to luffy personally

[lunar shell]

I haven't thought of that, I see this is more like real deity, look at Nika for exemple, he would fit the sun part. He is an actual deity that influence the world stat, we may say the same for Sengoku ( boudha ).

I actually went into this cuz I was looking what was this Zunesha dude, this links me to one of the 9 deity of Navagraha.

[formal bridge]

@late token but luffy said at the start of series he wants 10 nakama

[tired star]

like before this chapter there is no way shanks and luffy would clash. But if shanks is working with the gorosei and knows about the whole joy boy thing then it begs the question, Is he on our side?

[livid mantle]

me too I do feel like maybe is not a fight per say but also not helping fully train like Rayleigh did but I feel like maybe they will battle each other in a davy back fight, but I do feel that after that and before the final war Blackbeard will most likely kill Shanks

[formal bridge]

What about dragon

[tired star]

I honestly have no clue oda is going to do with dragon

[formal bridge]

Dragon can't die without showing that he cares for luffy

[livid mantle]

well we kinda have both the Marines and the World Goverment which are the same but also they each have their own agents so I do feel like Pirates will fight agaist Marines and the Revolutionaries will clash they the world goverment

[formal bridge]

I have never seen revolutionary fight cipher pol other than sabo fight vs rob lucci

[tired star]

i dont think the revolutionaries can take the WG. I am assuming that the gorosei and imu are all fighters

[livid mantle]

since the marines will have fleet admiral and the admirals and the other while the World goverment has the gorosei, Cp and also have the Commander-in-Chief which is above fleet admiral

[formal bridge]

Still cipher pol is lapdog of wg

[tired star]

yea but, ima say something wild... I think the gorosei and imu will be admiral+ level combatants so it would kinda make cirpher pol irrelevant

[formal bridge]

Guys there used to be a theory that dragon used to work for marines but he saw their corruption and left anyone agree with this?

[formal bridge]

So you mean gorosei are stronger than yonko and equal to pirate king level?

[livid mantle]

feel like it would be helpful for Dragon and the revolutionaries take on the to free luffy and the straw hats to take on stronger opponents, like Im, Blackbeard, the Gorosei, also may be some sort of poetic justice for Sabo be the one to defeat Akainu

[tired star]

if they are indeed immortal and from the void centery then yea

[formal bridge]

Why couldn't they catch gol d roger than @tired star

[tired star]

maybe they just didnt see him as a threat or worth the effort, after all roger was "too early" whatever that means

[formal bridge]

Nah man luffy gonna beat akainu

[livid mantle]

maybe not all 5 of the Gorosei are fighters but I say at least 3 of the 5 are

[formal bridge]

That's why he got upgrade to his df from oda

[tired star]

also roger helped take out rocks and i think rocks had the nika nika fruit before luffy but hadnt awakend it for "joy boy" to return (i dont rlly have any evidence for this)

[desert notch]

This is the void century timeline in my theory: The D clan rules the ancient kingdom-literally the most powerful kingdom in existence. The kingdom's strength comes from two things:The will of the D clan,and the ability of creating devil fruits. The other kingdoms gang up on the ancient kingdom,destroying it,and creating the world government to fill in the power gap. After that,the last members of the D clan were called devils,and the creation of devil fruits was called off as "the power of the sea devils"

[formal bridge]

I think the will of d is to live freely.

[livid mantle]

I was thinking of the same but looking at the endgame of this there are way too many strong opponets for him to face and I don't think there will be 2 different wars but maybe like a 3 side war Strawhats & allies & Revolutionaries vs Blackbeard & allies vs world Gov & Marines

[formal bridge]

@livid mantle luffy can fight multiple opponents

[desert notch]

That doesn't really go against my theory

[tired star]

i like this theory. Personally i think that the D clan was turned into devil fruits by the celestial dragons but a few escaped. This would explain why devil fruits have spirits/minds. The remaining D then passed the bloodline down

[pseudo basin]

Remember we still have no idea on what this awakening can do

its a Zoan we still have to figure out if it is the transformation yet or its just the base form plus the gear

[livid mantle]

because aside from Akainu I can't see any other strong opponets that Oda might give to Sabo

[formal bridge]

There is one more new admiral

[pseudo basin]

also he can do whatever he wants with the fruit.. he just grabbed the ground making it rubber and deflected a kaido breath.. i mean.. what akainu could do if kaido's attacks get deflected

[tired star]

haki still negates df abilities to an extent

[pseudo basin]

yea but he has haki aswell

we just saw a small portion of his true power

[formal bridge]

Nobody knows much about 3rd admiral right

[tired star]

nah not rlly any information as of yet

[pseudo basin]

there are a couple of theories about it

[formal bridge]

He can be opponents of. Sabo

[livid mantle]

true one theory says it explains why Luffy can use fire abilities because since is the sun god may be related to heat powers or even fire

[tired star]

i think his powers are low tier reality manip

[spark sapphire]

guys you think that blackbeard is after being the king of the world like xebec

[formal bridge]

Kizaru vs sanji
Akainu vs luffy
Zoro vs sakazuki
Sabo vs last admiral

[pseudo basin]

since the other two admirals use Light and Gravity he should be using Energy.. it doesnt sound bad, oda likes these kind of 'coincidences'

you know E=MC2 looks spicy

[safe snow]

Akainu is the epithet of Sakazuki

[formal bridge]

Sorry i meant purple one

[safe snow]

Issho

[tired star]

I rlly wanna see big mom and luffy team up in the near future. their powers complement each other so well as they are both very cartoonish

[formal bridge]

Fujitora

[pseudo basin]

admirals are now Ryokugyu, Kizaru, Akainu and Fujitora

[formal bridge]

@pseudo basin akainu is fleet admiral

[safe snow]

Probably not happening

[livid mantle]

oh for sure as other character have inherited the will of others Blackbeard has inherited the will of xebec I mean is for a reason that Blackbeard's ship is named the Saber of Xebec

[pseudo basin]

yeye i know, the grand admiral

[idle sorrel]

yo how did luffy not know his df was a zoan when devil fruit users instantly know what fruit they ate

[tired star]

things are unpredictable when it comes to big mom

[formal bridge]

Maybe katakuri

[tired star]

That was never confiremed. Also shanks was the one who told him it was the gum gum fruit (which could have been an intentional lie)

[pseudo basin]

man the gomu gomu was the name at the time which was recognized by shanks.. it could've probably been hidden or changed by the Government on purpose to keep his true power hidden for some reason

but i still think shanks knew it anyway but preferred to say gomu gomu to keep luffy safe

[formal bridge]

Man i feel said that luffy's fruit is zoan not paramecia now there is not paramecia that's strong

[tired star]

there is plenty lmao

[pseudo basin]

there are alot of strong parameciaa fruits tbh

[formal bridge]

I mean no paramecia can hurt luffy he can even copy katakuri style now

[tired star]

Laws fruit, sugars fruit, big moms, doffies, fujitoras fruit ect

[spark sapphire]

thats crazy

[livid mantle]

we still got Katakuri's as a really strong paramecia and also the Gura Gura no mi too

[pseudo basin]

Katakuri's paramecia is fuckin strong

[formal bridge]

@livid mantle luffy can copy his style now

[pseudo basin]

Ope ope is a paramecia.. it's probably the most broken paramecia in the one piece world

[tired star]

i think buggies fruit if awakend is just a better ope ope

[formal bridge]

Only in hands of great doctor like law

[pseudo basin]

even the hito hito no mi model nika can't stand a 1v1 vs the ope ope

[livid mantle]

well his fruit might not be that strong but it was Katakuri that made good use of the fruit and thats why is recognised as a strong fruit because otherwise don't feel like a mochi based frit is strong

[pseudo basin]

he can just shambles whatever he wants and ur like : ah

[livid mantle]

it looks like a logia because it can change but also it looks that way because of his future sight

[pseudo basin]

buggy its an hidden strong character.. can't wait to see what oda has reserved for him

[formal bridge]

@livid mantle what about gold gold fruit they made that too op

[tired star]

i think the hobby hobby no mi is the strongest paramicia we have seen

[safe snow]

I agree

The fruit on itself doesn't look broken

It's kata's future sight that makes it broken

[formal bridge]

I mean gold isn't that strong as shown

[tired star]

the luck luck fruit was more broken than the gold gold

[pseudo basin]

Its not so strong @tired star getting the user unconscious cancels all the effects.. not worth

[formal bridge]

@tired star lol ussop did really big brain move that time

[tired star]

nah if someone like kaido or big mom had the fruit its like the end of the world

[pseudo basin]

lol if shanks had a fruit could've been the world ruler.. but he has not cuz it's broken yet.. oda knows how to play it

[slow warren]

People are saying Luffy beats Naruto now, I only finished Naruto and like 90 eps of Shippuden could someone explain how strong Naruto is currently and how he would lose to Luffy I thought he had better hax

[safe snow]

I mean Roger didn't have a fruit either (as far as we know)

[pseudo basin]

what kind of question is it

[formal bridge]

Don't bring Naruto here man

[slow warren]

?

[safe snow]

It an absurd premise to compare characters from different universes

[slow warren]

ah

[pseudo basin]

yea that's what i mean.. he became the pirate king without a fruit.. imagine giving him a fruit with that monstrous haki (just like shanks)... the main story shouldn't exists since luffy couldn't be able to beat these kind of overpowered characters

[raw spear]

does anyone know why roger died yet

[formal bridge]

@pseudo basin yeah garp without fruit is beast too

[formal bridge]

Cancer

[modest skiff]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using #manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description.

[modest skiff]

No other series mentions here please

[livid mantle]

hard to say given is a movie fruit and is not cannon but it is indeed strong and thinking about gold remind me of the this one thing I read that mythical zoan all have some sort of "elemental" properties to them, and I say is true for almost all that we seen, like Marco has fire, Yamato has Ice, Kaido is hard to say but he has air? (the clouds he uses to fly and also he did use air slashes, but also thunder and the bolo breath which is some type of fire, we also got Sengoku's budda that is golden so maybe he might have some sort of properties that the gold gold fruit had, give that at this point on the story we might never see him go full force at all

[tired star]

i rlly want a kaido flashback after this arc preferabbly centerd around the rocks pirates

[pseudo basin]

there will be for sure golden

[slow warren]

I heard "Kaido" translates to something very interesting, possibly hinting at his upbringing underneath || Xebec ||

[tired star]

Hopefully. I have a theory the rocks had the unawakend nika nika fruit. The gorosei said the fruit escapes them every generation so somebody from rogers era had to have it.

[formal bridge]

I mean to say gold as an element doesn't have any really good abilities other than being good conductor

[raw spear]

i wonder how many nika users have existed and who they were for only joyboy and luffy to awaken

my guess is it takes a dream or goal and a good nature to awaken

[livid mantle]

yea Joyboy has been mentioned a few times and has some sort of history is a few of the islands, maybe all of those joyboy were different ones

[tired star]

i think their have definiley been alot but the gorosei have stopped them from awakening so joy boy could return. Thats why they threw the cpo agent at luffy, they were desperate to not let it awaken

[pseudo basin]

I don't think or somehow it should've been said by someone yet.. buggy has not recognized his power nor kaido, bigmom, rayleigh or someone else...

[tired star]

I'm assuming part of the reason the gorosei didnt rlly hunt down roger so hard is cause he helped them stop rocks who had the nika nika fruit previously but never got to awaken it

[visual merlin]

them saying that doesn't necessarily mean there's someone, let alone someone big each time with the gomu gomu, and if rocks had the gomu gomu, people like kaido would note that when fighting luffy

[raw spear]

i also wonder how it is that roger first got his dream to be the pirate king that then led to his entire adventure

[formal bridge]

Also pure gold can make people immortal in movie you remember

[raw spear]

what is pure gold?

[tired star]

rocks could have used a different aspect of the nika's power. i think it was stated in this chapter the fruit lets the user fight however they want or something along those lines

[modest skiff]

Movies are not considered canon

[visual merlin]

Its still a rubber fruit, its just being rubber leaves a lot of room for imagination which is what the chapter references, rocks would still be rubber

[tired star]

if the nika always manifested as rubber abilities the gorosei would have known from day 1 it was luffy and sent admirals after him so i disagree

[versed hamlet]

are you guys insinuating that rocks had the nika fruit? just didnt awaken it or something? i havent fully digested this conversation yet

[pseudo basin]

@tired star if it's unawakened you can't use the power of the nika sun god.. and also zunisha said 'after 800 years joyboy has returned' .... just the fruit was hidden somewhere

[visual merlin]

They did know it manifested as rubber apparently

they're just dumb

[tired star]

yes i am thats my personal theory

[visual merlin]

but as they say themselves, the fruit is still a rubber fruit

[raw spear]

maybe they thought he wouldnt awaken it since it hadnt awakened for 800 years

[visual merlin]

its just it leaves a lot of room for imagination, and thats how g5 works

[versed hamlet]

Then kaido, big mom, whitebeard, blackbeard, garp, ANY of them would have mentioned such an observation.

[safe snow]

Still why take that chance

[tired star]

would they ever want to take that risk tho? it doesnt make sense that they know he has the nika fruit and just let him run free

[visual merlin]

yea, they made bad decisions

but they tell us here the fruit is still rubber, and they knew about it

[raw spear]

they have been alive for too long they get cocky

[versed hamlet]

Makes absolutely no sense. Even with our new information.

[tired star]

thats why i think the power of the nika fruit doesnt always manifest the exact same for ever user. rocks could have used a different aspect of the power

[visual merlin]

There's not much different he could manifest it, he'd still be rubber, maybe he wouldn't have gears and such but he'd naturally be a rubber human and be able to stretch and whatnit

[tired star]

the power of the fruit is not rubber its toon force

[visual merlin]

it is rubber, they tell us that

[raw spear]

are we reading the same manga?

[visual merlin]

its just oda also wants it to come off as goofy

[versed hamlet]

you misread the entire chapter.

[formal bridge]

@tired star but it's called gum gum fruit wouldn't people know if he uses different power from gum gum fruit

[pseudo basin]

No man, it's just the sun god's power.. it is what it is... as i said.. zunisha could've said 'joyboy has returned after 30 years'.. but instead he said 'he returned after 800 years'.. this means they never awakened it.. if someone used the fruit meanwhile it just gave the rubber basic skills like luffy till chapter 1044

[tired star]

properties of ruber doesnt mean it is ruber it means it can squash and strech (like a cartoon)

[visual merlin]

that is what it means

the power isn't being a cartoon

they specifically add words such as "supposedly" when talking about the imagination aspects

and if it were just squash and stretch, he wouldn't be immune to lightning

[formal bridge]

@pseudo basin yeah if zunesha could have predicted unawakened joyboy it would have been alerted when luffy was on zou.

[visual merlin]

he's still rubber, its just strong enough rubber that he can do a lot with it

[pseudo basin]

Golden, oda never played around these twisted thoughts... he goes kinda straight around the powers..

[slow warren]

What a ridiculous power

[tired star]

the artistic direction of the chapter doesnt give off the idea of simply rubber

[visual merlin]

It does, its just also meant to seem goofy

[ashen spindle]

Oda is Oda and that’s the way he outmanoeuvred from the situation - for the awakening he revealed it’s not rubber only and for some reason the WG could not get its hand on it. If Rox pirates had it the WG could probably get his hands on it or at least tell Garp to find it because it’s too dangerous in Rocks hands as they new it’s true form. What do you guys think?

[visual merlin]

he's rubber, but he can also do a lot with it within his imagination

and so its funny

[tired star]

eyes literally popping out of peoples head like a loony tunes cartoon???

[visual merlin]

Yea, thats not literal eyes popping out, or else it wouldn't be happening to kaido too, thats just the type of thing oda is going to do to show its meant to be comedic

[safe snow]

It would be interesting to know where the hell did the WG find the fruit in the first place

[formal bridge]

Roger was there too

[visual merlin]

this too

the fruit is still rubber

[formal bridge]

It was never rubber in the first place it was sun god

[visual merlin]

which is rubber

[formal bridge]

Like phoenix is always burning

[tawdry bramble]

Luffy is still literally rubber.

[tired star]

this explains how red hawk can produce fire aswell

[visual merlin]

Yea, this is accompanying the fact that he's rubber, and they say it twice, and there's a reason they say "supposedly"

[dreamy ravine]

More freedom to morph and bend their bodies,and surroundings with awakening, at will

[safe snow]

WG itself doesn't have a proper idea what the actual abilities are

[visual merlin]

The fruit ability isn't imagination, its rubber, and rubber allows for a lot of imagination

red hawk can still just be the same magic the other 15 characters use to produce fire

[formal bridge]

It could also mean they didn't have definite proof

[visual merlin]

? Sure, but ultimately they are telling us the fruit is rubber

[formal bridge]

Yeah

[dreamy ravine]

Very excited for some creative uses for Luffy's awakening!

[tired star]

This is an intresting choice of words "ridiculous"

[safe snow]

He goes super saiyan

[safe snow]

Can you send the complete panel??

[formal bridge]

It wouldn't have been interesting if it was a plain paramecia awakening

[dreamy ravine]

Do you think smiles can only zoans because of the will of the fruit? Maybe the failed ones didn't capture the will correctly, so they instead have a defective will to always smile.

[pseudo basin]

Guys the fruit is Hito Hito no Mi model Nika: Sun God ok? This is the real point.. the power of the Sun God Nika it's just a mix of Fire and the ability to morph the body (and the surroundings after the awakening) 'which GAINS properties LIKE the rubber'.. but it's not a real rubber. It's just the concept which is completely different...

[safe snow]

Thanks man

[formal bridge]

What is difference between concept and real rubber

[visual merlin]

we don't know what sun god means, for now we're told its still rubber, its not just properties of rubber, its a rubber body. There's been no mention of fire either

[lunar shell]

I will add to this, this :

Mangala
In Hindu mythology, the planet Mars is known as Mangala. Hindus believed in the existence of nine planets called Navagraha. The planet of Mars is identified with the war god Karttikeya, known also as Skanda. Karttikeya was born from six sparks that fell from the eyes of the god Siva into a lake near Madras. From the sparks, six children were created who were nursed by the Krttika, the Pleiades.

But once, Parvati , who was Siva's wife, embraced them all together with such affection that she squeezed them into one body , six heads, and twelve arms The newborn became the war god Karttikeya who is often depicted riding a peacock called Paravani and armed with a bow and arrow.

There are numerous accounts of Karttikeya's birth. Some hymns tell that he was the son of Siva and Parvati, whose union was brought about by the gods** for the purpose of creating the god war who would defeat the rival of the gods: the demon monster Taraka.** Karttikeya accomplished this task using a powerful lance, that had been forged from some of the shining rays of the Sun god Surya.

So one other fit, Mangala (The god of anger/war), Mars. Mars for Marshall.

[heady parrot]

Azure Dragon vs Sun God Nika pretty cool should be a chapter title lol

[tawdry bramble]

Luffy is immune to electricity because he is rubber.

[pseudo basin]

smiles are probably a vegapunk way of reproducing in the laboratory the Nika fruit to me

[tawdry bramble]

He is not just able to stretch like rubber. He is literally rubber.

[tired star]

to me this is literally some loony tunes stuff which is why i heavily lean into the theory of the sun god nika having the powers of a cartoon

[pseudo basin]

since the Gorosei actually admitted 'we can't reach it since 800 years'

[dreamy ravine]

Could be highly likely why the bad ones cause people to smile.

[pseudo basin]

yep, side effect of a faulty product which tries to reproduce a god fruit

[visual merlin]

This is happening to kaido, thats only more evidence this is just meant for comedy

[formal bridge]

Why is luffy smiling too much btw?

[pseudo basin]

probably it's the fruit will

[visual merlin]

Nika themself was probably a very smily entity, and had a rubber body

[safe snow]

That seems like the characteristic of the fruit

[tired star]

if the fruit is simply rubber than that literally defeats the whole purpose of the fruit actually being the nika nika fruit. like there is no changes to at all

[dreamy ravine]

He's clearly having a ton of fun swinging Kaido around!

[visual merlin]

so becoming nika means being so giggly, as well as having the rubber body

[tired star]

not true. devil fruits dont just affect their users

[formal bridge]

@tired star he is rubber and god of sun that means he has fire powers too

[cyan berry]

not really

he's just rubber

red hawk isnt from the gear 5 stuff

[visual merlin]

We could see actual zoan forms including this g5, but yea it doesn't change too much, thats sort of good to not have inconsistencies. But there's still reason oda would want to make this change, it gives a lot of narrative change

[tawdry bramble]

Could their technically be a smile fruit that’s modeled after Nika as well?

[dreamy ravine]

We already saw something very similar in a queen fight earlier

[cyan berry]

tons of characters are just able to use fire

[visual merlin]

They do?

[formal bridge]

@cyan berry it was effect of being nika though

[visual merlin]

technically there could be, yea

[dreamy ravine]

Considering Momo's is a failed one of kaido's fruit, yes

[cyan berry]

do you have proof of that

[tired star]

the hobby hobby fruit affects other, the ope ope affects other

[cyan berry]

"sun god" is not enough

[visual merlin]

we don't know what sun god means

[pseudo basin]

As i said, the smile fruits are probably a try to replicate the nika fruit's power by vegapunk

[visual merlin]

Those don't give those people their own powers

either way, that point doesn't help you

[safe snow]

That could really be the case

[formal bridge]

@visual merlin didn't you see his hair on fire

[dreamy ravine]

Oda is always hinting at a new dawn

[frosty spruce]

I assumed it was just...rubbery.

[visual merlin]

We don't know whats happening with his hair, even if thats fire, it doesn't tell us he can actually use the power of fire, especially when we get his fruit described this chapter and no mention of fire

[lunar shell]

I will add to this, this :

Brihaspati (Sanskrit: बृहस्पति, IAST: Bṛhaspati), also known as Guru, is a Hindu god. In the ancient Vedic scriptures of Hinduism, Brihaspati is a deity associated with fire, and the word also refers to a rishi (sage) who advises the devas (gods)

Brihaspati, Jupiter, Brihaspati=Guru for Gorosei.

[formal bridge]

@visual merlin how do you explain fire from red hawk friction?

[tired star]

ima just be waiting for when it is inevitibly revealed that the fruits powers are not "just rubber"

[visual merlin]

The same explanation as the other characters that magically use fire

[formal bridge]

@visual merlin i think the explanation of sanji is that he has some lunarian dna

[dreamy ravine]

It would make sense that our boy is about to bring a new dawn to the world using the fruit. Now word Sun is literally apart of his identity, so I feel like all this is pretty well positioned personally.

[cyan berry]

he doesnt

if Sanji has Lunarian DNA then so would all his siblings

[visual merlin]

we just got that reveal

[cyan berry]

and besides

[formal bridge]

Yeah so?

[cyan berry]

even if that were the case

[visual merlin]

Sanji doesn't have lunarian dna, there's several issues with that, and he's not the only one either

[cyan berry]

Sanji has none of the main Lunarian traits

the black wings, dark skin, and silver hair

[tired star]

why would oda go through the revelation that luffy's fruit makes him a godly entity only to be "oh btw his power is still just rubber" makes no sense

[visual merlin]

Because he can do a lot with the narrative now. it keeps luffy's power consistent, while explaining him being all giggly and having the narrative of being someone who brings joy to everyone + joyboy connection + a bunch of other shit he can do with it

Also, can explain if we get a full zoan form, and explains this g5 form

[formal bridge]

He could be partly lunarian he has too many dna in him when judge experimented on his kids maybe some activated their genes some didn't like his sister can suck poison out others cant

[tired star]

also if the powers of nika where only rubber the gorosei would have captured him from DAY 1 thats a huge plothole that doesnt make sense to me narrativley

[visual merlin]

several issues with that still, for example, if he was meant to have fire, judge would react to diable jambe

[pseudo basin]

correct but remember that the fruit is Human-Human , probably this is the awakened form of the fruit (the zoan transformation)

[sterile goblet]

no. we’ve only seen SMILE fruits modeled after after animals, not even extinct animals, because the heavy implication (if not outright said) is that they’re just injecting animal DNA into the person.

Momo’s fruit is different because it’s 1. not a SMILE and 2. created using Kaidou’s DNA, so it’s still created with an actual template.

So unless Vegapunk or Caesar captured Luffy and used his DNA to create a fruit, an artificial Nika fruit is not going to happen.

[visual merlin]

it means the gorosei are dumb to some extent yes, but they themselves admitted they've been trying to get the fruit, and haven't been able to, its not like they haven't been trying

[safe snow]

It does not but going by the conversation of Gorossei

They did know that rubber is one of the properties

So pretty stupid from them not to take him out early

[dreamy ravine]

I'm very excited to see Vegapunk! He will likely know more than anyone about devil fruits and their wills.

[formal bridge]

Judge never knew he would awaken but he did right judge can't know everything he is not author he is a character

[visual merlin]

it doesn't matter whether or not he knew. When he sees diable jambe he would react

[tired star]

thats a dumb explanation. "they were just too stupid" these are the same people that literally erased an century for history but they cant catch luffy pre timeskip?

[pseudo basin]

@dreamy ravine vegapunk is franky

[dreamy ravine]

This is what I came to manga theories for

[visual merlin]

Its not a dumb explanation when everything else is already cleared up. We know what the power is, they tell us fairly clearly, they tell us they've been looking for the fruit, and we have reasons for why oda would do this, gorosei being slightly dumb is just the explanation

[formal bridge]

I guess you are right about that

[strong blade]

the one piece is the cremated ashes of joyboy

[tired star]

again if the power of the fruit was literally just rubber they would have known with CERTAINTY that it was luffy who had the fruit. That means from the day he got his first bounty they should have had all 4 admirals on his ass.

[formal bridge]

Why is it a treasure to roger then

[visual merlin]

Yea, they seem to have known, they tell us in this very chapter they knew about the fruit. Them not making a bigger deal out of him is the slightly dumb part

[strong blade]

i dont know

[sterile goblet]

Gorosei likely weren’t aware of Luffy’s abilities until at least Enies Lobby, and after that point they do target him. they’re upset w Garp for letting him go, they tell Kuma to kill him, and Luffy has an admiral sent after him in sabaody. Obviously he’s targeted throughout Marineford There’s very little downtime between any of these for any additional targeting, Luffy is either somewhere they’re unaware of or on the move. Then in the New World, he’s also pretty much constantly on the move until Wano. And ofc there’s other reasons for the pre ts targeting given, but that’s narratively speaking to preserve this twist, and in world the logic is that’s because they’re not going to reveal this secret of his fruit to the people they’re sending after him.

[lunar shell]

I'll add to this, this :

Shukra has the knowledge that raises the dead back to life which he used time to time and brought back his disciples Asuras back to life. Later, this knowledge was sought by the Devatas and was ultimately gained by them.

Shukra, Venus Should be Moria. For some reasons the wg want to see Moria dead, and his power was stolen.

This is starting to take shape but it has weak meaning. I write it just in case this links to someone Idea.

[visual merlin]

Though, in their defense the fruit hadn't awakened for centuries, there wouldn't be nearly enough reason to send all 4 admirals that quickly

[formal bridge]

Maybe because he was garp grandson

[visual merlin]

but yes it would've been smarter to consider him more of a threat quicker

[safe snow]

You just can't send Admirals on a goose chase. Admirals needs explanation and they wouldn't give them

Though, they could have easily sent CP0

[tired star]

i feel like if the gorosei say jump you better godamn jump, they are kinda the highest authority

[lunar shell]

Last one was Shani = Momo.

[safe snow]

They are but admirals still only do things which make at least somewhat sense

I can't recall correctly but I remember Akainu confronting them once because of something which did not make sense

[formal bridge]

Also dragon was already the most dangerous criminal they needed all admiral for him

[dreamy ravine]

He was also blown away by Kuma, and has only really been active in the new world for ~3 months after 2 years of absence. They sent smoker, who covered for him, and Fujitora, who clearly likes Luffy. It's not like he was a huge threat considering how long it has been since this fruit was relevant at all.

[safe snow]

Since you reminded me of dragon

How were the Gorossei so calm after what went down in Mary Jeois (refering to Sabo and his group)

[formal bridge]

Dragon was much bigger threat than unawakened nika

[tired star]

is he tho? the revolutionaries dont seem like they have even the strength of a yonko crew

[formal bridge]

We still don't know their full reaction also bb attacked dragon on their island

[safe snow]

It would all make much more sense if they tell us what CP0 were doing all this time (i.e before wano)

[dreamy ravine]

After the elders hear about the fruit awakening, you bet Luffy will have a target on his back.

[formal bridge]

According to manga they say most dangerous criminal

[safe snow]

But yonko's are not trying to actively fight the WG, Dragon is

[visual merlin]

why would that make him less of a threat than unawakened nika?

[weak lava]

Not only that they actually had garp try to capture him, which failed cause garp doesn’t care. Garp is like at least 3 admirals. BB was trying to capture luffy too which ended in aces capture.

[tired star]

because an unawkaned nika has the potential to awaken and the return of joy boy. thats more threatening than a rag tag group of people that are no stronger than an insect compared to the full force of the marines + WG

[pure raven]

💀 it hasnt even been 2 days and mfs are already powerscaling aomething with someting we never seen before

[lunar shell]

Navagraha are nine heavenly bodies and deities that influence human life on Earth :

1 : Surya (Sun) => Luffy
2 : Chandra (Moon) => ???
3 : Mangala (Mars) => Teach
4: Budha (Mercury) => Sengoku
5 : Brhaspati (Jupiter) => The whole Gorosei
6 : Shukra (Venus) => Moria
7 : Shani (Saturn) => Idk dude let's just forget about this bs.

[safe snow]

One explanation that makes some sense is that it's virtually impossible to find a single crew in the whole of ocean in one piece.

So you can't actually hunt someone who is always on the move

[formal bridge]

It hasn't awakened in log time though

[visual merlin]

Yea, but then there's likely been several users of the fruit who never awakened it in 800 years. Given that, and given luffy especially pre timeskip was way way weaker than people like dragon, you wouldn't need to be yonko level, or have a yonko crew to be more of a threat than him back then

[desert notch]

i am fucking telling yo ass,the moon god is gonna be a lunarian

[safe snow]

Since Luffu has Sun God Nika

It would make sense if BB gets moon princess Kaguya

[weak lava]

Sanji

[desert notch]

Y E S

[lunar shell]

Y obv, I mean Chandra = Shandora and fast story is, getting to the moon is the american dream, so it fit Ener plot. But whatever

[weak lava]

Honestly I can’t wait to learn more about one piece, such an interesting world with so many mysteries.

[tired star]

but the threat of the fruit possibly awakening should realistically trump anything else. its kinda the biggest connection to the void century

[formal bridge]

@lunar shell just so you know oda hasn't based op on just one mythology you gotta study more

[desert notch]

exactly. someone finally gets my point. like 3 people today thought about the idea of a moon god next to the sun god nika. and noone ackgnowleges the fact that lunarian literally means moon person

[visual merlin]

It shouldn't be. Its been 800 years and no one has awakened it, and even if its one of the strongest awakenings, it wouldn't immediately make you more powerful than everyone else, let alone the entirety of the revs. Even less of a threat when its a weak version of luffy. I can agree they should've had more people after luffy, but there's no way to argue he was a bigger threat than dragon even pre timeskip just because he had a potentially strong fruit

[lunar shell]

I realise that. I saw lot of links in others mythological story, surrounding Sun Wukong story for exemple. This Oda dude is crazy. His story links to so many things.

[tired star]

its not about power so much as the return of joy boy. Also the ancient weapons havent been used in YEARS but the gov is still scared shitless and rightfully cautious.

but they throw all caution to the wind when it comes to the nika nika even tho they literally know where it is and who has it

[formal bridge]

Even dragon has some knowledge about void century

[desert notch]

yeah. the sun wukong story (journey to the west) is a monkey (luffy,MONKEY D luffy) eating the fruit of immortality (the sun god fruit saving him from/awakening at death),and goes westward with other demons and creatures to acquire a great treasure. the only problem here is that the one who wanted the great treasure in journey to the west is tripataka,a buddhist monk,who sun wukong helped. so i do not understand who one piece's tripataka exactly is

[visual merlin]

That is the power though. The gorosei right now are not worried about joyboy, they're worried about the power. Either way, every point in that message stays the same, the ancient weapons haven't been used in years, thats different from several people having the gomu gomu in 800 years and never awakening it. Along with the fact that luffy was weak as shit compared to someone like dragon, nor could his crew compare to dragons

[tepid crystal]

Concerning about how shanks and the WG handled it, hope the future chapters answers it. Coz I really have no idea how Shanks blantlantly lied and called it as a gum gum fruit that gives one an ability to gain the characteristics of a rubber.

As for the WG, if they really cared for the fruit, why let Luffy roam till now till he get to nurture his mastery with the fruit. Can't they just send of a cp9 or cp0 from the very beginning? coz this seems to be a big thing to just pass by. Also, if his reasoning for this is that the fruit for 800 yrs really havent been wielded properly which is why the WG really didn't put much thought into it, then are they saying that luffy is not worthy of attention yet even after he beat doflamingo? that doesn't makes sense though, should the WG really act up only right after Luffy is as strong as a Yonko already?

[weak lava]

People keep bringing this up as if the world government is one entity and not comprised of multiple with differing motives, knowledge and expertise. Luffy has been out on the sea for about 3 years, for a government that size to act that fast would be illogical. They already attempted to capture and kill luffy repeatedly within those 3 years anyways

[safe snow]

Where do you get the idea that Shanks lied??

[visual merlin]

I mean...who says shanks knew either?

and if he knew, there's still multiple reasons not to mention its real ability

[lunar shell]

Yes, hell it link to the dragon god, pangu, lot of beast clan that ressemble race of one piece.. The 5 sages, 4 seas, 5 emperor...

[tepid crystal]

so are you saying that Shanks took the fruit from the WG without knowing its value?

[desert notch]

oda's fucking crazy lmao

[formal bridge]

I agree

[visual merlin]

sure, thats possible

[lunar shell]

That's the only thing I figured for certain

[safe snow]

Absolutely

Every DF has a value. All of them can be insanely strong depending on the user

[tired star]

they acted really damn fast when fully punched a celestial dragon so they can act plenty fast not illogical

[cyan berry]

every DF can also be sold for a lot of money

some more than others obviously

but all of them are still valuable if only for monetary gain

[formal bridge]

Maybe shanks wanted to troll wg

[weak lava]

There was likely already an admiral in the area because there was a celestial dragon.

[cyan berry]

There's still a high chance Shanks was unaware of the fruit's secret

[weak lava]

Sabaody isn’t exactly neutral territory for the wg.

[tired star]

ik but your saying they are more concerned about some snotty little brat getting punched in the face than basically the 2nd coming of christ

[tepid crystal]

could be, but that would just make Shank's act of betting it all to Luffy is nothing but an act of a whim

[weak lava]

They didn’t know he was Jesus until probably marine Ford.

[visual merlin]

well yea, up until now that has been the idea

[formal bridge]

@tepid crystal his will was strong

[lunar shell]

If you want the whole truth here it is : this is headcanon confirmed by me.

The fruit is emitting haki ( will ) that affect the world, Shanks was " inspired " to go steal to fruit from the wg. Shanks is a mere tool of Nika. You can see this as the force in starwars.

[desert notch]

You could say that's the only thing i've ever known

[safe snow]

It was not on a whim

Luffy said the exact words as his previous captain who also happens to be the PK

[lunar shell]

That is also how Nika call the submarine to rescue Luffy ( he is also the one speaking to momo ) , he does all this using haki, cuz voat is speaking with haki, but whatever its a long story.

[formal bridge]

Also he is a D and grandson of garp

[tired star]

that is my assumption but everyone here beleives the power of the nika nika fruit is exclusivley rubber meaning they should have known from his first bounty. Or atleast since he took out croc

[safe snow]

With so much focus on the rubber

They probably did

[formal bridge]

@tired star its only rubber before awakening

[tepid crystal]

what I mean about betting it all for Luffy is when Shanks gave off his arm to luffy. Shanks hadn't heard of Luffy being the same as Roger yet when that happened.

[formal bridge]

@tepid crystal he knew he was d though

[lunar shell]

Shanks would have done the same for any of his friends.

[visual merlin]

They did know though. There's no way to deny that when this exact chapter they confirm they already knew the rubber fruit was the nika fruit, and they knew the abilities, and have been trying to get it

[safe snow]

That's not what I'm saying either

Luffy said the exact words that Roger did. It was enough for shanks to put his faith into Luffy

[tepid crystal]

yeah, give his arm off and not use haki

[formal bridge]

That's what he said to Rayleigh too

[lunar shell]

The reason he havent used haki is cuz he needed his arm to be cut off for the purpose of the story.

[vestal wyvern]

Im wondering the same thing, so why didnt any of the WG go after luffy especially after the CP9 situation? Like it makes no sense to not go after a pirate who is shouting gomu gomu and has rubber properties, indicating the nika powers

[formal bridge]

Yeah for the feels

[visual merlin]

yea, thats just bad on the gorosei's part for not making a bigger deal out of him

[lunar shell]

And the personality

[tepid crystal]

omg, that's what i am talking about. That Shanks gave off his arm to bet everything all to luffy.

[weak lava]

I’ll concede on that, but this is also the worst generation and many other people who could likely achieve the title of joy boy. I believe that the wg has a great many things to worry about and it’s very difficult to pin down everything when the information available is hard to discern if it’s the truth or a waste of resources, with the celestial dragon they know 💯 someone they want to protect is in danger

[safe snow]

As I said before

This would become clear if we get an explanation whay CP0 were doing before wano

If there previous tasks were indeed more important than killing Luffu

[formal bridge]

I think cp9 was busy with other missions too

[visual merlin]

not just cp9, they could've had more people on him in general

[vestal wyvern]

Why would CP9 be busy with other missions when luffy having the literal nika fruit not be of upmost importance. they proclaim theyve been tryna find the fruit for 800 years and blah blah blah

[tired star]

personally i think "joy boy" is the spirit within the nika nika fruit. the gorosei said that zoans have a will of their own. This means the return of joy boy is tied to the awakening of the fruit. So rlly only luffy could be joy boy

[formal bridge]

It's not like grand line is small place

[tepid crystal]

u misunderstood it, read again. What im trying to say is that luffy inspired shanks after the sea monster incident. Not before it. So what gives shanks the motivation to bet his arm to luffy before he even heard of that "roger words" from luffy yet? exactly, because he knows the value of the fruit

[late token]

We don’t know for how long the gorosei know about the nika thing.

1. If they are like really old and know this for a long time then I also feel like it is a plot hole. The WG would not need much resources to capture a pre ts luffy. Even if they were concerned with other issues they still have enough resources to capture him. No need for an admiral.
2. They just recently learned about this. Then someone has to have told them about the true nature of the fruit. Who talked to them recently? Shanks. But why would shanks do that? Maybe death really is a prerequesite to awaken the fruit and he wanted to trigger that.

[lunar shell]

Nah like I said Shanks would have done that for any of his friend. There are no lands Shanks won't reach for his friends. This is how the mangaka give Shanks personality, and Luffy value, trought his mentor.

On a other side, we have Shanks giving the sun hat to luffy, he does that when he see Roger successor.

[formal bridge]

@vestal wyvern cp9 was protecting it was jailed for failing to protect why wasn't the whole team there then

[tepid crystal]

what's my point to this is why didn't shanks use his armament to protect his arm?

[pure raven]

From the wording here it makes it seem like they didn't actually know luffy had the hito fruit

[tepid crystal]

What im trying to say is that luffy inspired shanks after the sea monster incident. Not before it. So what gives shanks the motivation to bet his arm to luffy before he even heard of that "roger words" from luffy yet?

if so, why didn't shanks use his armament to protect his arm from getting bit off?
exactly, because he knows the value of the fruit

[late token]

To make luffy feel guilty and become a pirate

[tired star]

i think that sun god nika has multiple powers that manifest in different ways fire being 1 as shown with red hawk. this would mean that the fruit could have had different names in the past. this explains them not knowing that luffy had the fruit

[tepid crystal]

wtf

[lunar shell]

Why did Shanks not swim faster, why did he joke around when the weak bandit escape, why doesnt he use observation, why the sniper of his screw doesnt snipe the beast ?

Its a story, the path of it wont be obstructed by mathematical logic

[formal bridge]

@tepid crystal bro value of fruit doesn't matter if he could have used haki

[tepid crystal]

so ur saying that he became a yonko from 0 in just the span of 8-10 years?

[tired star]

its possible shanks discoverd the true nature of the fruit after luffy ate it. cause shanks wasnt even a yonko yet at that stage

[formal bridge]

Also shanks could have used conqueror haki insted of playing with bandits

[formal bridge]

He already used to duel with mihawk you tell

[junior cape]

Alright, so Luffy has awakened his devil fruit, and gained immense power in the process. What's the catch? Power without cost doesn't exist. I think that when the raid is done, Luffy isnt just gonna be knocked out for a while, hes gonna undergo some permanent changes. The remaining CP0 agent is also probably shitting himself right now.

[tepid crystal]

wdym

[stray warren]

what if BB is actually going after luffy, he has 2 types of devil fruits which are the strongest and rn he only needs the strongest zoan..which luffy currently has, and oda has a way of foreshadowing as its said BB is targeting strong dfs while ussop is telling chopper who would need the hito-hito

[weak lava]

Shanks is a pacifist? Violence is his last option

[formal bridge]

Mihawk said i won't duel with you without your arm

[torpid mist]

So are we supposed to believe that ALL mythical zoans are gods of some sort?

[tired star]

Joy Boys will/the fruits will influencing him somehow possibly taking him over

[stray warren]

I don't think it would go that far

[tired star]

zoan devil fruits have a will of their own

[torpid mist]

Cause marco, sengoku, and yamato s fruits are all gods in our verse too

[tepid crystal]

so doesn't this mean that shanks was strong alr. even before his arm was taken off? if so, what's the probability of him not knowing of how to use an armament

[upbeat kraken]

Can Luffy do anything that his imagination can come up with?

[visual merlin]

within rubber yea

[stray warren]

there's allot of zoan users that didn't get taken over by their fruit, like chopper

[formal bridge]

He used conqueror haki after sea king bit his arm

[tired star]

they didnt have the will of a a god/joyboy

[upbeat kraken]

Can he make a rubber gun that could destroy the universe

[iron lion]

no

[tepid crystal]

im talking about armament bro, he could've protected his arm

[river pond]

Only setback is his imagination but I don't feel like that isn't enough. I feel like this is a state he can only use for so long like when he started using Gear 4.

[tired star]

also they were not awakend. the impel down guards are awakend zoans and they seem to have lost their minds

[torpid mist]

Shanks doesnt feel pain

[stray warren]

the will isn't revolved around a god or joy boy tho, it's just the fruit

[tired star]

the god/joyboy is the fruit they are 1 in the same

[stray warren]

oh.. u kinda got me here ngl

[real obsidian]

haki probably didnt exist in that form when shanks did the evil glare

[formal bridge]

It's for plot sake everything shouldn't make sense in anime it's just an anime

[river pond]

Joyboy is just a title

[stray warren]

how would you explain kaido then if that's the case

[tired star]

have we seen kaido awaken yet? i dont think we have

[lunar shell]

Oda have no haki rules at chapter one, he started armament haki much later in the serie. At chapter 1 One piece was suposed to end in 5 year, no need for armament haki cuz no need for 10 power up.

Shanks strength of will have the beast flee, that's a classic jap move.

It was a simple Gomu Gomu at the time. Else Oda would have drop a line somewhere to foreshadow this whole thing, like : " what ? 50 million ? That doesnt make sense he should be at 30 million, why is the wg putting such a prime ".

[iron lion]

Luffy is his friend. Shanks is gonna protect his friend. I also think Luffy stated his dream to shanks at the bar beforehand though obviously its never explicitly stated

[stray warren]

he's the "strongest creature" in the verse, he must've awakened already

[tepid crystal]

it's just that, this arguement would fall the latest chapter to nothing but bad writing

[weak lava]

He has, his techniques make almost no sense in the context of rubber. See red hawk, bounce man, snake man, gear 2 for examples

[tired star]

its possible when he awakens he also goes out of control. we may have to wait and see. we can already see luffy acting abnormal in is awakening

[formal bridge]

Yeah that's exactly my point anime doesn't have to make sense

[torpid mist]

If a non hito hito zoan fruits was eaten by an animal, it dont really have speech to begin with

[tepid crystal]

then lets just fuck off from one piece, haha.

[formal bridge]

Lol

[torpid mist]

Wow that was the shittiest grammar i have typed ever maybe

[stray warren]

true true, that could explain his laughter, could also be the reasoning behind the title joyboy

[strange oyster]

Cool luffy give his allies rubber fruit power?

[tired star]

also we have seen inanimate objects be given zoan fruits and they actually gain a personality such the elephant sword that rlly annoying cp9 guy used

[lunar shell]

Not to mention this deserve the personality of Shanks, the fact that he goes that far without second though is the reason he has such an haki, the reason why he is so strong.

[stray warren]

I get your point

[real obsidian]

weekly released will just have gaps that looks like breaks in continuity because they cant flesh out stuff perfectly else you end up with no last game of thrones books if you wait

[tepid crystal]

kk, simply it's a plot hole

[formal bridge]

Anyone can tell me why can bb get 2 powers and not go BOOM

[formal bridge]

Chapter 1 had conqueror haki with shanks

[strange oyster]

Imagine luffy grabbing black beards hands before causes earthquake

[tired star]

Yea thats why i think joy boy is the will of the fruit. Also leads me into my wild theory of devil fruits actually once being people but i aint gonna go there cause its crazy talk 😄

[tepid crystal]

some are theorizing that bb has a zoan fruit human cerberus that wields the dark powers and enables him to take 2 more fruits

[formal bridge]

So he can't get more power?

[stray warren]

makes sense makes sense

[shrewd basalt]

Luffys DF prob has an effect on his personality and fully comes out when awakened. The will of the DF fully being realized once awakened, it makes sense

[stray warren]

that wouldn't make sense tho since he directly got the fruit (unless there's another catch)

[strange oyster]

Remember he wanted to be the freest man

[tired star]

yep exactly. i think this applies to awakening any zoan fruit tho aswell cause we can see the impel down guards who are all awakend have lost their minds in a way

[real obsidian]

shanks display of haki way back in chapter 1 probably wasnt haki but it can covneniently be explained as haki now. It was most likely just the glare of a not at that moment known to be very powerful man

[strange oyster]

That lines up his devil fruit

[tepid crystal]

what im trying to say is that just like of luffy's fruit, yami yami is also a zoan model human that has the powers of the darkness and enables him to take 2 more df.

[formal bridge]

What about garp always being able to hurt luffy

[stray warren]

I see..

[tepid crystal]

nothing doesn't make sense anymore. Oda started this. Anything can go

[stray warren]

what if black beard just fed the fruits to something he has on him? It's not a completely ridiculous theory since there was no explanation to BBs actions

[real obsidian]

if armament haki existed to allow garp to inflict damage to luffy and that is your explaination then why didnt shanks use it to not lose his arm

[stray warren]

he has allot of rings..

[lunar shell]

Sure let us says that, what I believe is : Oda had in mind " I'll make Shanks with serious eyes to show how serious he can be, how strong his will is, so strong this big beast instinct will alert him not to attack, that is how strong Shanks is - note for later : I might exploit this further in the futur - " But that's just my opinion

[formal bridge]

For feels

[real obsidian]

for feels

[tepid crystal]

that's scary bro, like a chimera

[stray warren]

he forgot ☠️ and @tepid crystal yea basically

shanks could've been the strongest man in the world if he ate that fruit

[formal bridge]

@stray warren shanks like swimming

[tepid crystal]

im not sure, but i think the fruit evolves as the wielder deliberates something. And i don't think shanks specializes in that.

[stray warren]

he's good at it too, bro appeared out of no where in the water

[stray warren]

he probably would've adapted

[formal bridge]

Yeah just as good as Rayleigh

[tired star]

shanks could have unconciously used haki on the creature

maybe he didnt know he hand conq haki at that time kinda how luffy used it multiple times without knowing what it was

[formal bridge]

@tired star ? How did he beat cp9 without haki and get fruit

[tired star]

luffy beat cp9 without haki so did zoro and sanji ect

[pure raven]

Next chapter prob kiado backstory

[formal bridge]

@tired star he was older than rob lucci and better than them

[tired star]

also its not that he doesnt have haki but maybe wasnt trained in it. being older doesnt mean he knows how to properly use haki

[shrewd basalt]

Why are yall discussing shanks haki

[formal bridge]

Why he lost his arm in chapter 1

[shrewd basalt]

I think it's a minor continuity error

[formal bridge]

@tired star are implying he used to duel mihawk without haki

[tired star]

mihawk could have not been on that level back when they did duel

[shrewd basalt]

I just like to think it's like that cuz 1: it made a good scene or 2: shanks was prioritizing luffys life > beating the sea king cuz the fruit and luffy were so valuable

[tired star]

they could have all been around end of pre timeskip level

[formal bridge]

@tired star what about fighting whitebeard crew and other enemies in new world

[lunar shell]

He take everything he is feeling, everything that matters to him, he push all of it into his fist, and he fight for it.

[formal bridge]

Yeah i think it was just for feels

[tired star]

do we know he was in the new world at the point in the story?

[formal bridge]

@tired star also oda said he didn't want shanks to lose his arm but publishers thought it would be cool

[tired star]

sure, i still think it can be explained tho. My explanation would be that this was a pre timeskip level shanks/redhair pirates around the same level as the straw hats when they arrived as sabaody

[shrewd basalt]

Shanks also isnt super direct and kinda does things in the background so if you want you can even imagine he gave up his arm to kinda inspire luffy or someshit like that, show him self sacrifice

[formal bridge]

@tired star shanks went to new world with roger too

[real obsidian]

shanks become super strong when he got another scare on his face. scares = super saiyan levels

[shrewd basalt]

By that time strawhats wouldnt even struggle with that lol

[tired star]

he was a cleaner

[formal bridge]

Still you need to be strong

[tired star]

caught off guard in the water and trying to save a kid

[tired star]

no you dont and buggy is living proof of that

[shrewd basalt]

I think if you need an explanation he did it on purpose or prioritized luffys life, shanks wasnt weak

[formal bridge]

@tired star he is an exception because he is a comic relief character

[shrewd basalt]

Buggy is the strongest character in OP
He almost killed luffy b4 anyone else, just sayin

[tired star]

thats not rlly. it just proves you didnt have the be strong to be a cabin boy on rogers crew

[mystic remnant]

Buggy can dickslap you from 5 feet away, think of that before talking smack

[real obsidian]

travelling the new world isnt even hard so long as you dont fight anyone, or have OP crewmates. Nami, usoop and chopper/franky are not exactly powerhouses.

[shrewd basalt]

Shanks a bitch, buggy goated

[formal bridge]

@real obsidian but roger has fought whole fleets with just one ship also buster calls.

[real obsidian]

roger and reyleigh are pretty op

[tired star]

yea and he had multiple yonko level people on his crew

[formal bridge]

Still you can't not fight in new world

[shrewd basalt]

They are probably more skilled then the average pirate tho, almost definitely

[pure raven]

Just gotta get a good carry

[formal bridge]

Couldn't shanks be one of those people

[real obsidian]

no

[tired star]

no because he wasnt even yonko level in east blue. this is confirmed that he became a yonko after losing his arm

[real obsidian]

shanks and bugy hid in corner with their knife and brush

[shrewd basalt]

Literally wasnt there a backstory scene where shanks and buggy as kids were also having to fight vs whitebeard pirates

[formal bridge]

@tired star even garp knew about shanks being strong and telling luffy to stop following shanks

[tired star]

there are fodder members in the whitbeard pirates

[shrewd basalt]

But to take those on as KIDS u gotta be somewhat strong

[modest skiff]

Guys, this channel isn’t for idle chit chat, which is why it has slow mode. If you aren’t directly discussing a specific theory, it’s not supposed to go here. This conversation is better fit for #manga

[tired star]

strong could mean warlord level which is the same as sabaody strawhat level

[real obsidian]

in the episode i believe they just ran away for the duration of the fight

[formal bridge]

@modest skiff we are discussing if shanks is evil

[shrewd basalt]

We discussing the why is shanks a bitch theory

[shrewd basalt]

Shanks just pulling the strings fr

[real obsidian]

we are discussing the theory of the plot hole of shanks not having an arm cuz feels

[modest skiff]

Not a good fit for this channel. Plot holes are not theories. Please move this conversation to one of the manga channels

[formal bridge]

I don't think shanks is pulling strings

[tired star]

i do why would he be speaking to the gorosei like buddies

[formal bridge]

Just to warn them

[formal bridge]

Btw what happened to vivi after marejois

[tired star]

I think they are colluding and their will be conflict between the red hair pirates and the strawhats. Shanks knows something about joyboy and the void century and knows its something bad

[formal bridge]

He knows ofcourse he was there with roger to see poneglyphs and on laughtale too

[tired star]

no he didnt

[pure raven]

He wasnt, he stayed with buggy

[tired star]

shanks never went to laughtale

[formal bridge]

No he went look again

[tired star]

they left alot people behind im pretty sure shanks was one of those

[pure raven]

Was that ever confirmed? I dont think so

[formal bridge]

Ah sorry my bad he didn't

[tired star]

i still think shanks knows whats on laughtale tho and what the one piece is

[formal bridge]

So how does he know so much about void century then @tired star

He has seen road poneglyphs

[tired star]

idk i think possibly due to his dealings with the gorosei. thats why i say he works with them

[tired star]

does he have the means to read them tho? thats the question

[formal bridge]

Damn that's suspicious i always thought he went to laughtale

[formal bridge]

Roger could heard voice of things don't know if shanks can it's not like only people with d can hear it

[tired star]

yea, there is alot of directions things could go shanks. but i dont think he is fully trustworthy anymore especially after this luffy reveal

[tired star]

momonosuke can hear it aswell cant her? unless im mistaken

[solemn pendant]

i've heard theories about the "pirate" shanks was talking to the 5 elders about is luffy, any thoughts towards the theory?

[formal bridge]

I don't think shanks is a villain though why would Rayleigh be friendly with him then

[tired star]

i dont know specifically what they could have been talking about. but i think they are working together

[solemn pendant]

yeah, some theories about shanks being a celestial spirit too, these theories are hectic but reasonable.

[tired star]

Rayleigh could be unaware. its not like him meeting with the gorosei is public knowlege'

[errant thicket]

How is shank not trustworthy? He could've ended luffy whenever he wanted

[formal bridge]

Rayleigh has good network though and is smart

[tired star]

meeting with the gorosei, possibly knowing the truth of the gum gum fruit

[frozen echo]

Bro the no name pirates who had the fruit punching the air rn

[long turret]

If he really wanted the fruit he could have left Luffy die

[tired star]

I dont think anyone who can just freely waltz into marejois and have a chit chat with the gorosei is entirley trustworhty

[solemn pendant]

i've seen a theory towards shanks being an enemy, and placing a bet on luffy. So who knows, shanks could be the second final villian

[errant thicket]

Bruh lmao why would he lose an arm for him tho?

[frozen echo]

It’s weird just how much respect sengoku had for him

[tired star]

because he knows what the gum gum fruit truly is maybe? and doesnt want it to be lost

[frozen echo]

He could killed Luffy and gotten the fruit back tho

[errant thicket]

If he knew what it was then why not eat it himself?

[formal bridge]

I heard a theory in which it says he is warning them about bb

[charred folio]

I just had a crazy thought luffy not only countered Enel because of his rubber but enels goal was the moon and luffy is the sun god 🤯🤯

[solemn pendant]

fr bro, there's something that we need to know about shanks, bc no way a fleet admiral would have respect for a yonko

[tired star]

maybe he was going to untill luffy gobbled it up

[errant thicket]

If he told the goros about it then he bamboozled them into getting luffy killed so "joyboy" could be back

[frozen echo]

Bro had no qualms against fighting wb but shanks, nah

[tired star]

also if you know the fruit has the will of joyboy idk if you would want to eat it

[long turret]

Yeah but if he knew that it was that precious he wouldn’t have left it in the bar

[formal bridge]

@tired star he could be warning them about bb too coz luffy wasn't awakened when he met them

[errant thicket]

Anyway , I really don't think shanks being an ennemy makes any sense , he kept talking about how much he adores luffy because he's saying the same things as Roger

[solemn pendant]

yeah, i need to know what deal shanks made with kaido, and what sort of privilege shanks has towards the world government

[formal bridge]

Shanks can never be evil

[storm orchid]

Anybody know why Nika fruit has relation with rubbery body?

[tired star]

this is true. but again why would they just let him waltz in and talk? would they let any other pirate into the holy land for a chat? probably not. would they trust any other pirate? probably not. YET ALONE A YONKO

[formal bridge]

@tired star he is just warning everybody about bb he warned wb now wg

[solemn rose]

Hey, If VegaPunk did some stuff on Luffy's fruit and he said it's the gomu gomu no mi, Does he already know the truth about it ?

[storm orchid]

I just found that the Nika fruit awakening and its relation with rubber body is a bit confusing

[regal sparrow]

[long turret]

Maybe he told them about the nika nika no mi in exchange of something

[tired star]

i get that but do you rlly think they would let any old pirate let alone a YONKO into the home of the celestial dragons and imu

[formal bridge]

@storm orchid just think that like phoenix has fiery body nika has rubbery body

[tired star]

even if its only a warning about blackbeard the fact they are willing to meet with him in their holy land shows a level of trust which is very suspicous

[lunar shell]

Rubber is freedom for Oda standpoint.

[solemn pendant]

wouldnt make sense, if shanks stole the nika nika no mi from the world government

[formal bridge]

They know he is a pacifist he even came during marineford

[storm orchid]

Does Nika come from certain myths? Japanese?

[formal bridge]

Don't know

[long turret]

He told them who has it

[storm orchid]

Oh i see..

[lunar shell]

Do you ?

[solemn pendant]

yeah but it doesnt make sense, that they're taking action upon luffy right as he awakened the df

[storm orchid]

that's make sense.. thank you

[long turret]

Maybe that was part of Shanks’ plan? 🤷🏽‍♂️

[formal bridge]

He didn't he just wanted to talk about certain pirate

[solemn rose]

When it was mentioned that Vegapunk knew about the identity and properties of the gomu-gomu no mi ? I want to re read this part

[solemn pendant]

probably, shanks is such a legend

[tired star]

thats not rlly relevant. they obvously trust him enough to converse and share information. and if the gorosei trust you thats probably not a good thing

[formal bridge]

@tired star they didn't trust they just thought if shanks came all the way here it must be important

[tired star]

like they could have had the meeting somewhere else but they felt comfortable enough to have him in in the holy land

[formal bridge]

Anyway bye guys gtg

[tired star]

also they aint even that surprised to see him

[long turret]

I’m wondering how he got there. Like marijoise is quite inaccessible

[tired star]

there is live an elevator or somthing im p sure they just let im hup with that especially considering how they seem somewhat "freindly" with him

[runic flax]

what if a human eats the regular human human fruit

[pure raven]

since chopper has experience fucking around with the hito hito no mi, I wonder if hes gonna come up with some power up for Luffy in the future

fucken Luffy monster point

[runic flax]

luffy rumble ball

[long turret]

Guys let’s think about this: in the OP world there are only few characters who know that

1. The fruit belonged to the world government
   2.The fruit stolen was eaten by Luffy
   It is possible someone in Shanks’ crew might have snitched, but considering the meeting with Goresei it is highly probable that Shanks snitched.
   Secondly, Shanks doesn’t look like the type of person that likes to get involved with the WG. If he stole the fruit is because he knew something about it. During and before the time skip, he has never done anything to change the political equilibrium of the world, so according to this line of reasoning, the mere fact that he stole the Nika Nika no Mi indicates that he knew the true nature of the fruit and that’s why he stole it.

[keen vault]

i kinda sound dumb rn but i though shanks was talking about buggy and that whys he got into the 7 warlords LMAO

[merry fractal]

"We only made time to talk because it was you" They are not surprised because he requested an audience. Unlike Lafitte

[hexed plinth]

What happened to Zoro

[solemn pendant]

[hexed plinth]

I guess he dead by reaper take his life

[solemn pendant]

apparently, he's dead but most likely another power up

[merry fractal]

Oda is dangling that thread to keep it tense. Last we saw him he was in dire straits