manga-theories

[muted ember]

And here we go again; you claiming that Oda would all of a sudden, let's say post dressrosa say "hmm, so you know that keypart to my story, the Rubber-Rubber fruit? After 13 years of printing out manga chapters with it; let me just completely change what it actually is, what its meaning to the story is, and show that at the end of this arc". Pure headcanon, nothing to prove it with, what an atrocious claim.

[lunar shell]

My opinion is that whatever the fruit is call, it doesnt reveal anything either way.
That the reason the name is changing is the same that Luffy come to have a second brother.

[muted ember]

Where do you have the proof, or the evidence to show that Oda REWROTE the Rubber fruit, and didn't intend it to be this way, from day 1? Because there isn't any proof, not a single one.

[lunar shell]

Plz, give me a better explanation and change my mind

[muted ember]

I don't have a better explanation. I'm not a theorist. I'm just here to debunk your claims, to an actually pretty solid theory made by pringles. What you think is relevant, or "adds on to the possibility" is actually making it worse.

[slender fulcrum]

There are nika references in Skipea, so he at least knew what it was from there.
plus, this is heavily linked to laugh tale and the main base story, so it's likely that Oda planned this from start. ( hence the shanks stealing the fruit etc )

[lunar shell]

I understand, but believe that I think that because it is, for me, the most logical explanation

[muted ember]

Saying "Because Oda changed his mind on this writing choice and that writing choice, also means he changed his mind on the Rubber fruit" is literally something you cant prove, and therefore you should not rely on it, whatsoever.

[lunar shell]

I'm fine if you say Im wrong, but provide a better explanation, else how can I assume something else

[lunar shell]

No, first you need to know a mangaka like him put in place numbers of root story, he can act upon it of the futur, or not.

Second : you can easily invent something based on something that have no sense at first, but retrospectively it has.

[slender fulcrum]

Oda is a master at foreshadowing and planned things through years and years of chapters. he knows how his story from beginning to the end, and this is a major event he can't change at the last minutes and was certainly planned since day 1. Wano arc was planned from a long time and he stated that he wanted to put it earlier but considering the ending he wanted to not spoil the story too soon.

[lunar shell]

No, for exemple, Ace was Luffy real brother at first, and Oda change his idea and have them have a separate father and mother

Also. One piece was suposed to last just 5 year when Oda started writing it

[slender fulcrum]

That doesnt really impact the end story. If your point was about Zoro's lineage, Sanji , or anyone in the crew's DF, I'd agree. We're talking about the main character.

[lunar shell]

So Luffy is immune to a story change ? That's weird.

Dressrosa arc wasnt planned btw, Doffy was aimed to be on this wano arc. Just to add yet a other exemple

Should I talk about the supernova...Nah I think enought

[modest skiff]

This conversation is turning into more of an argument than a theory discussion. Let’s please move on to another topic

[lunar shell]

If the fact they hide the name of the fruit is real good reason that explain why Oda make it like this. Then yes I will comply to the fact he planned it. But it's unlikely in my opinion

[slender fulcrum]

That's not what I said. I said that this kind of MAJOR events are step stone Oda most probably thought from start. Take GRRM for example, GoT. He gave the screewriter his major steps of the story that he hadn't written yet. The writer had to put bridges between them ( and they did it poorly ) . But he knew the ending, he knew who was gonna be king, he knew the MAJOR step of his story already.
Oda is the same, cause that's how a writer work. There are flag point in the writing and Luffy being Joy Boy and awakening is not something he made up on a whim.
@modest skiff noted. Sorry

[lunar shell]

This will be resolved if and when we have the reason for hiding the fruit name.

[shadow flume]

Even if it’s Resin , how will it be that powerful to take on anyone like Kaido etc

[lunar shell]

If he can melt Kaido weapon that's a start, if he can have stronger fist that's a plus, if he can sent flying resin object that's the end

[slender fulcrum]

Well, according to legend, the IRL joy boy mythos state that a joy boy playing a drum can incite people around him to fight even if they are exhausted and they wont stop until he stops playing drums. If it works the same in OP. This will be problematic and a huge issue for whoever are in the opposite side

[lunar shell]

Yes I read this. I think this would link to Luffy ability to inspire people like he did in the war, like he is doing with his crew, and the fact he make friend with everyone

Not an actual brain controlling ability, that is opposed to freedom

[indigo girder]

I still can't fully be convinced by the resin theory. It isn't convincing to me for two reasons. 1) Why would the material of the fruit being resin instead of purely rubber incite a name change? Okay, fruit is diff than orignally or completed expected, so what? There are more obviously overpowered fruit that exist. 2) The subtle change between resin and rubber isn't a large enough shift to render proper writing changes in regards to luffy. Yes if it was resin instead of rubber we may see a new host of powers, but in the same vein oda is imaginative to give what ever powers through rubber luffy needs that could have been derived from resin. Thats why i blieve Its more likely that a portion of the gomu gomu got cut off like its the gomu gomu no mi model: something instead of a diff fruit material all together

[lime cape]

then you know that with two or three devil fruit you can tank any army

[indigo girder]

isnt there a fruit that encourages people to fight already (held by one of the revolutionary army)?????

[lime cape]

I think it is not normal resin it has to be that resin from the mangrove that allows you to breath under water

[lunar shell]

I covered the 1) already so I will answer for the 2)

I think the fact that Luffy is Gomu or Resin indeed have like you say nothing really appealing to it. But I think that for Joy Boy its an other story. I think that his story resolve in part around the fact that he has a resin ability.

[indigo girder]

Question then, luffy hasn't showcased any extradnariy ability to handle water than any other non fishman df users. So then why do you think this?

[indigo girder]

I could see that, but i still think that the change is so subtle that rubber or resin when awakened should basically have the asme abilities. And even with historical prevelance from joyboy or nika or whoever they could be explained within the realm of rubber // wouuld yo think that the historical prevelance is enough to indicate a name change?

[lime cape]

I think you need that resin to get into some important place (maybe an ancestral weapon but any ship would be too big to fit, you need someone who can melts himself inside water🤔

[indigo girder]

interesting hmmm

tbh its basically impossible to say at this point all we can do is wait until friday 😭😭😭

[lime cape]

I think it has to be Uranus, I want BB to get Pluton

[compact jewel]

if the resin is the blood of the trees, maybe you need that power to help tree adam or tree eve survive. Maybe they are roting for being old.

just saying, i dont think the real fruit is resin.

[lime cape]

It would be hilarious that Pluton (Roman god of the dead) ->star wars death star -> Franky knows a fatal flaw in its design and destroy it easily

[lime cape]

Maybe we got first spoilers Wednesday

[lunar shell]

Making thing out of resin can be necessary for Oda story. Look you can do that with it

[indigo girder]

true true but i normally dont read spoilers i used to but now i just wait for complete fan transaltions

[lunar shell]

And it make sense for it to melt just when Joy Boy ( Nika ? ) appear

Maybe the resin the first fruit. The one protecting the tree.

[lime cape]

But resin alone can't be so dangerous to change the name of the fruit

I think it has to be a new transformation, gear 5

if you combine the katakana of "Ni" and "Ka" you get the kanji of 5

[lunar shell]

That doesnt answer your own question^^

I wont stretch more on this I dont have a gomu gomu ability for this, but this is my opinion :

Scriptwriting facility.
Oda need Luffy to have a resin fruit to fit his story, he change the name, he have the gouvernement saying they hide the name, for I agree, weird reasons ( I can support this with the fact that they werent trouble at all when mugiwara boy was beating up Arlong and they just give him a 30 million bounty ).

[lime cape]

Maybe it is a big misunderstanding, imagine someone of the past unlocking gear 4th and no one knows about the fruit and suddenly someone see another person transform itself in that yokai/Kami/summo fighter etc... You would say that fruit is a hito hito no mi: model (Nika)

[slender fulcrum]

yeah it can still be a zoan model hito hito no mi belonging to some rubber / resin man species or whatever

[pure raven]

#manga-theories message @gloomy canyon is this pinnable?

[gloomy canyon]

Yeah sure

I’ll pin it when I get home

[random sierra]

im not sure if theres any parallel but i realize Xebec sounds a little bit like Xezbeth, a demon that creates lies (if that connects with anything)

[random plaza]

Is this true or not?

[amber oar]

no

[random sierra]

sounds cool but i doubt it

[visual merlin]

nah

[grizzled fog]

No, it’s entirely speculative. It’s not actually a terrible idea of how those events went down but it’s not really based on anything

[random sierra]

that sums it up yeah

[visual merlin]

If the reason for Kaido going to marineford was thinking ace may be joyboy that'd be an interesting twist, but I doubt that and the rest of the theory doesn't add up if you ask me

[sinful helm]

kaido just wanted too fight

[visual merlin]

Plus, there has to have been a point where shanks proved to kaido he's a worthy challenge

and that was prolly the moment, so they must've fought a bit

[fierce shale]

It is interesting and makes a lot of sense. I still don’t understand how Shanks has influence over almost everyone in the OP world. I think Kaido would back down for Shanks

[visual merlin]

its based around several stretches though, and doesn't account for the fact that kaido thinks shanks can challenge him

[pure raven]

Appreciate it

[fierce shale]

Hmm maybe a stretch. But everything we’ve seen with Shanks during the marine ford arc, we know Shanks is calculated. When Shanks met Whitebeard to warn him about Marineford, I think he was going to strike a deal with him but Whitebeard’s ego couldn’t handle it. Also from the recent chapters, we see that Kaido has some respect to Luffy. So Kaido may have seen something in Shanks at that time and believed him when he could have talked about luffy being the prophesied Joyboy

[lunar shell]

Oh that's amber ok

[visual merlin]

besides that its fake, don't post things here if you believe them to be spoilers

@pure raven

[pure raven]

Good theory

[pure raven]

We might get flash back of the incident

[deep dome]

aight boys

who thinks enel will come back

personally i think that if Croc got reintroduced and then Lucci theres no reason Eneru wouldnt make a comeback

[lunar shell]

Oda stated he would eventually

[sinful helm]

i think he will ally with Luffy tho in the end war

[foggy gulch]

Enel is actually a god killer! So he would definitely ally with Luffy over the celestial dragons in the end war

We might see something like Luffy getting bounced so hard by black beard or whoever that he would get to the moon lol and that's where he comes back with enel and his arc

[lunar shell]

here too

[proud tree]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjMsowbOfDk now I agree with the resin theory ... and the Sabaody resin bubbles are connected to it?

he is saying the same resin the bubble at fishmen island where coated in is Luffys resin

so Luffy could go under water with this

... but it also could be just gear 2 being so hot it melts his rubber

[shadow flume]

This might be true bro

[foggy gulch]

If it's a devil fruit other then rubber Luffy will have no idea on how to use it. Unless it's joy boy who will use the devil fruit and not Luffy witch kinda sucks since we don't know anything about joy boy and he will beat a yankou before we get to know him

[foggy iris]

Luffy been using the fruit all this time along

And he is good at adapting others' skills to his own, so I dont think that this would be a problem

And if the theory is true, he already started to adapt the resin capabilities to his moves. That's why Kaido said "rubber shouldnt be able to do this"

Tbh we're talking about Luffy, he doesnt know anything about rubber physics or mechanics. He just land things that looks like its viable to his power

[foggy gulch]

I'd be ok with something like that as long as it's Luffy and not joy boy😅

[pure raven]

I hope 1044 just absolutely removes the notion of resin fruit and or sun wukong fruit

[silver sphinx]

unless it's not a devil fruit at all....

the goop could just be a new form of haki or something else entirely. we're just led to believe it's a devil fruit cuz that's all we've known but joyboy is from the void century. it could be something else.

[pure raven]

I think there's a few thematic answers that more or less fit Oda's usage of themes but more people are worried about the logistics than Oda's actual usage of things in his stories and how it breeds deeper meaning

[silver sphinx]

i feel like this could lead us into more symbolism of the sun. joyboy is in control here so what we see next is not luffy. people can't hear his "voice". so whatever comes next can't be put on to luffy's abilities.

[pure raven]

Inherited Will, in the sense of what appears to now be Joyboy, tells me that Oda's now showcasing that forreal with some previous chapters and characters telling it to us. Sabo with Ace's fruit and maybe Blackbeard with his Darkness Fruit. And now Luffy with his Gomu Gomu fruit.

It could be that when someone with conqueror's haki eat's a devil fruit, their will persists onward through said devil fruit.

Oda's done this before with other ideas and exploring them in all sorts of ways. The theme of freedom especially.

[silver sphinx]

haki = will. so perhaps what we're seeing here is "will incarnate", specifically's joyboy.

[modest skiff]

One of my conq haki theories is that it can do something new that we haven't seen yet. I think strong users are able to influence people by imposing their will on the world, as was done by both Oden (scabbards) and Roger (pirate era). But I think its possible there's something else too. I think people are scared of conq haki for more reasons than we have seen. Conq haki didn't help BM vs Kid and Law, so I think its possible there is still yet another layer.

[pure raven]

Xebec being as big of a threat that that he was, wouldn't surprise me if he had conqueror's haki.
Ace is canonically stated (Included in the wiki) to have CoC and when Sabo ate it, he claimed to be speaking on Ace's behalf which would be assumed thematic but could actually have been literal.

And they still needed a reason for blackbeard to seek out the darkness devil fruit for a reason.

AND also give notion to the idea why the marines were so preoccupied with the gomu gomu fruit specifically

since they don't strike me as willing/wanting to just stock up on devil fruits intentionally unless it's incredibly powerful/useful to them

[silver sphinx]

blackbeard was said by Oda in an sbs that he'd be a historian if he was placed in the real world. perhaps him choosing the darkness df has historical significance such as being Xebec's fruit or someone else from the void century.

perhaps he knew that there was a will imbedded inside it that would make him powerful enough to carry out his ambitions

[modest skiff]

The place where the logic regarding the WG breaks down is how they had this fruit guarded, but once it got stolen, they didn't seem to mind. And when they found out who ate it, they still didn't seem to mind. That's a big part of why I think Shanks is protecting Luffy.

Maybe the real answer is just that the navy has been preoccupied with so many other things they just never quite got around to it.

[stoic girder]

Sabaody serving as a giant foreshadowing mechanism to Resin Luffy and Joboys powers would be ineteresting. I feel like there are so many hidden things we could disect from sabaody.

[modest skiff]

BB says the yami "chose him", which I think goes along with what you are describing with some sort of specific will associated with the fruit. I also subscribe to this belief

[pure raven]

That's cause they only knew Shanks had it and after that Shanks went onto become a Yonko; not easy dealing with a man of that caliber.

Adding on further to that I'm not stressing too hard since they also didn't want to seek out the Ope Ope no mi after Law ate it despite it being incredibly powerful and probably what gave Imu immortality to begin with.

[silver sphinx]

i think this goop is a vessel for oda to explore the relationship between haki and devil fruits more closely as well as a thematic and symbolic standpoint.

[mighty narwhal]

Luffy fruit is mythical zoan ouroboros

[pure raven]

I think the fruit realistically holds the wills of Joyboys that come out and play at their own choosing and isn't akin to like a super saiyan transformation. Kaido's talking about enslaving people and Nika/Joyboy probably didn't like that and wanted to come out and play. I understand how that goes against the notion of freedom but talking about freedom, it's not difficult to see how Oda plays with that here as well

[digital crest]

@weak finch @proud tree If it’s in fact Resin and the awakening triggers the resin then from what we’ve known from other awakenings like Akainu & Aokiji is that islands can be permanently altered like Punk Hazard. So with that being noted could it be that Sabaody is an island created solely from the Resin DF awakening?

[modest skiff]

Did we ever get a chance to see what sort of material was being used in Dressrosa to make devil fruits? For some reason in my mind there was some kind of liquid

[silver sphinx]

SAD. or SMILE. i forget which is what.

[stoic girder]

Sabaody isn't really an island but a collection of gigantic mangroves, but yeah his awakening could have changed the climate around those mangroves or something.

[proven monolith]

yes i also think that Luffy's fruit chose him too. i believe Luffy felt a presence or heard something with the VOAT and ate the devil fruit when he was little. It is very strange that he would open a box and eat a strange fruit that tastes bad. i just believe he was drawn to it.

[weak finch]

yes that's basically what I'm thinking, regardless of the df name

[pure raven]

Man people really wanna lean in on hard destiny things at play

I like Oda's usage of funny potential coincidence in the narrative instead of "Monkey D. Dragon's storm powers striked Buggy so Luffy could get away" despite no word of Oda proving it so

[silver sphinx]

one thing i'd like to mention is how the fact that multiple people have stated that Luffy's voice has gone missing and Zunesha heard joyboy's "drums of liberation". now, this makes me believe that luffy and joyboy aren't one and the same. since that would mean that zunesha would hear those drums whenever luffy is alive and well, not when he's practically dead. so, this means that luffy is not joyboy yet.

[latent zodiac]

I just realized something today.

Usopp has never actually met buggy

[proven monolith]

in some instances dreams and destiny can lead down same path

[pure raven]

My personal explanation for that is that the "Voice" is akin to a unique heart beat. Luffy transforming physically means his heart beat/heart actually physically changed to the "Drums" of liberation since hearts and drums beat and when everyone heard Luffy's unique "heart beat/voice" change/disappear, they assumed he died when in reality Luffy changed/transformed meaning his voice also changed/transformed to one they didn't recognized and thus assumed dead.

[silver sphinx]

instead, i like to propose that oda is using this example as an explanation for the fans as to why luffy doesn't want to be joyboy, since he's a prophesized person. luffy is clearly against "fate" and a set out path. so i believe he's going to push the joyboy role onto someone else.

[proven monolith]

true...thats what i think

[digital crest]

Right and another important thing is people say that LRLL is also possibly an island made from Luffy’s awakening since everything there was stretched. So if that can somehow also correlate to the mangroves being so tall then it makes sense that Luffy’s awakening with stretching stuff and applying Resin can connect to Sabaody @weak finch @proud tree

[pure raven]

but everyone's jumping on Luffy died as if this is Bleach and as if Oda didn't not not kill Kin'emon and Okiku

Learn ppl; Oda doesn't kill people unless it's for extreme thematic purpose cause he hates killing characters.

[proven monolith]

Enel also thought Luffy was dead when he was inside that snake in Skypeia. The "voice" of the snake overshadowed Luffy's "voice"

[silver sphinx]

i see your point. but why would oda distinctly make joyboy and luffy as two separate "voices"? wouldn't it be more thematic with "inherited will" for luffy to simply carry on joyboy's dreams and intentions? luffy's voice was gone. there had to have been an outside change to make him smile easily once again. not to mention the goop.

[pure raven]

I think people are desperate for a christ/rebirth parallel and I don't personally vibe with it.

[stoic girder]

Right and it's possible the stretched animals on LRLL could have been example of what the WG fear. The power of Luffy's fruit being able to create giants out of people. We've seen that awakened paramencias can affect people via Kid. So it's possible they fear the power of the giganticism aspect from Luffy

[pure raven]

Cause it's still his will. Joyboy's will/Nika's will is an independent person from Luffy because we need to reiterate.

[silver sphinx]

right, so since they are independent from luffy, then luffy = joyboy/nika is not set in stone just yet. which also means whatever this goop means is not luffy's own abilities. not as far as we can tell.

[digital crest]

Exactly!! Luffy’s fruit would be a key factor into gigantification and that could mean making giants out of people which associates to the WG and Big Mom both wanting to achieve that.

@stoic girder have you heard about the Brazilian Resin event?

[pure raven]

Luffy's not fighting because he wants to free people for the sake of freeing people. Everything Luffy does is because he believes in his own freedom and not necessarily because he cares about the free wills of others. If Luffy truly was this more noble person, he'd become a revolutionary. But he's not. Luffy prioritizes his freedom and what that means to him. People all around the world are oppressed but Luffy's not rushing to save them. Luffy saves people because they became his friends and he cares and he doesn't tolerate people fucking with his friends.

Nika/Joyboy may in fact care for the liberation of all people so when Kaido started spitting ideas of slavery, the thing that Nika is very well known for being against and liberating slaves, it brings them out and as a result their will's are more noble in intent and independent from Luffy's own will.

Inherited will in the literal sense being Luffy ate the fruit and took in their souls in his body.

Luffy specifically does not give two shits about being a chosen one hero figure. That's the distinction here and why it's not "Inherited" in the general more understood sense which if I had to take a guess why, it's because blackbeard fulfills that role as Luffy's dark inversion. @silver sphinx

[dusk geyser]

Yall think the gomu gomu no mi's true name is like, the resin fruit?

[proven monolith]

Luffy follows his own dreams and beliefs. Maybe someone with Madam Sharleys powers to see future told Joyboy in the past that someone that carries on his will would appear in 800 years.. That could have started the Legend

that's how they knew when and where he would appear

[stoic girder]

Not really, but I've heard of some resin Brazilian tree

[digital crest]

In Brazil there was situation many years ago where the people had to like scrap trees and remove excessive resin of its bark and this gave people some sort of work so immigrants including Japanese people came to Brazil to help with this. Google it and the actual event should come up

The people who helped extract the resin were called “Rubber Soldiers”

http://america.aljazeera.com/multimedia/2015/3/brazil-remembers-its-rubber-soldiers.html

[stoic girder]

Oh!!! This sounds really interesting, I'm going to have to read this

I'm curious if Oda might possibly be drawing inspiration from this now

[pure raven]

Oda draws inspiration from literally all over the world and the various stories from every culture; whether or not that's specifically what he drew inspiration from is unknown given that he's written this story when he was 17 iirc

[stoic girder]

Men this gives some exciting possibly for the final war if we're going to see Luffy from his own rubber soldiers during the final war. The giganticism power that big mom wanted is basically now going to be in the palm of Luffy's hands. There are so many possibility with Resin like Coating the sunny to return to FMI, giganticism, a sun God form for Luffy. I'm just curious to see what Oda plans are for this name change for Luffy's fruits.

[cedar venture]

I think they will get it once they are on elbaf

[digital crest]

Well let’s see if this actually does in fact end up being Resin. I’m still 50/50 on the possibility because DF names have never been based off the awakening ability. It’s gonna be a HUGE revelation if it’s in fact Resin. And our friend @weak finch will be a legend for solving the mystery.

[stoic girder]

Friendly reminder that Yuderon was kinda the creator of this resin theory and Pringles is spearheading it

[atomic ocean]

who is pringles @stoic girder and what do u mean by spearheading

[stoic girder]

Discord user and by spearheading I mean he's basically the one spreading the idea around in the server the most

[mint prairie]

It's more of a #manga or #also-manga talk, but spearheading basically means being the vanguard or being at the front of something. In this case, Pringles has been the major figure behind the resin theory, which originally spawned from Yuderon and probably some others.

[atomic ocean]

aah gotcha ty for the info

[sturdy sinew]

Guys just a few more days right?

[atomic ocean]

potentially spoilers in like 36-48 hrs

[tropic parrot]

no

[rare wing]

Is the next chapter dropping next week

[atomic ocean]

no its break after 1044

[toxic tundra]

what were the theories of why Luffy shrunk after Gear Third prior to timeskip? do we know how it may relate to his new/real devil fruit (resin based) - if it is the fruit?

[rare wing]

When is 1044 dropping

[atomic ocean]

thursday friday, leaks tuesday prob

[toxic tundra]

this friday, most likely

[rare wing]

Hopefully bro

[errant walrus]

Reveri chapter

[rare wing]

[sturdy sinew]

Hahah possible. Do we know what happen to sabo?

[mint prairie]

All of you, manga light talk goes to the respective #manga and #also-manga channels. Read the channel description.

@sturdy sinew@atomic ocean@tropic parrot@rare wing@toxic tundra@errant walrus

[silver sphinx]

what i find interesting is that while we've seen plenty of other characters in the series showcase "inherited will", the only person we've seen a solid enough connection with luffy is roger. of course, nika and joyboy seem to be similar to luffy as well but roger is shown to be the number one comparison to luffy. but what was roger's will? he wanted to be pirate king like luffy and they've shown plenty of similar characteristics and mannerisms. but is that enough for us to conclude that luffy has inherited roger's will when we don't even know what he truly wanted? when did he say that he wanted to be the freest man in the world? (i dont think he ever said that). luffy and roger both valued freedom, like nika/joyboy, so why couldn't roger be joyboy? why couldn't he inherit his will? why was he too early, besides poseidon not being born?

[sturdy sinew]

I'm sorry haha

[sturdy sinew]

Yeah it's kinda different with Luffy?

[mint prairie]

There are some "hints" of sorts, in both Shanks and Rayleigh seeing Roger in Luffy, but it's never been conclusive. There's also a very obvious parallel between Roger and Luffy's dream that we have no idea about, shown the images below. Maybe you work out something from there.

[silver sphinx]

inheriting will is like inheriting their dreams and passions. what was roger's dream? what was joyboy's dream? all these characters are different from each other in subtle ways.

[toxic tundra]

he was too early bc of poseidon. there may be other reasons, but thats what we know so far. i believe joyboy was/is going to be single person (luffy). roger and others were waiting for someone specific to become joyboy - thats where luffy comes in. also the MAIN connection between luffy and roger - besides being the pirate king - is that both luffy and roger supposedly have said the same thing off screen. just like what @mint prairie just posted.

[sturdy sinew]

Luffy wanted to be the pirate king because he thinks he will be the freest man in the world

Yeah wonder why they said they come to early

Ancient weapons not available that time?

[silver sphinx]

despite this being a clear connection between luffy and roger's "dreams" (as well as the ace and yamato scene later) i don't think they are the same thing. so far, in all of one piece, all of the people who inherited will from someone else who have failed their dreams earlier had some intimate relationship or personal connection. remember, luffy did not want to become a pirate and be the freest because of roger, he was set on that path because of shanks. this is what makes luffy out of place with some of the themes of this story such as inherited will. think of any arc: like jaya where cricket inherited noland's will or dressrosa where law inheriting corazon's will or baratie where sanji had the same dream as zeff. they all had some type of connection with someone else to propogate their will. but luffy only had shanks which is why i don't think the connection between luffy and roger can be made so easily. i think we were led to believe something that isn't quite true.

[solid nacelle]

no

[silver sphinx]

why should joyboy need an ancient weapon to bring the dawn? if anything, an ancient weapon with the power to destroy islands seems everything against what joyboy seems to be about: peace and unification. i understand that poseidon can be used to carry the fishmen away to the surface but the joyboy has to be someone with something that no one else has that is required to bring about the change the world needs to see. otherwise, his presence in the story would only be symbolic and thematic which would not be well to the story or to the fans.

[lyric berry]

I was just thinking about these scenes today. What are the theories about what they said? If it was simply just “pirate king” or “freest person” why would Oda hide it? And why would whitebeard/sabo laugh at it as if it’s ridiculous

[modest skiff]

I don’t think we know Roger wanted to be “pirate king”. All we know is that his curiosity was piqued at one point and he decided to find the one piece and he was crowned king of pirates after that, right? Or was it before?

Either way, I am not convinced Roger was seeking the title the same way Luffy is. It is not clear what dream they both have in common, but my theory is that both of them wanted to travel to the sun. I don’t think either of them fully understood what logistics go into visiting the sun. But perhaps the sun is a lot more reachable in One Piece

[toxic tundra]

we dont know why there needs to be an ancient weapon, but imo it is to fight against the WG - or save people against what the WG may do. the WG got rid the warlords recently, so it means they have something more powerful to counter/fight against the pirates. Maybe they have one of the ancient weapon that can destroy islands (pluton?). as for joyboy having something special, it probably has to do with the fruit luffy has plus having a D initial, and ofc his will/determination.

[modest skiff]

WB, Oden, Ace and Sabo all react in a way that the dream seems preposterous and something no one else ever dreams about

[lyric berry]

What are you thoughts on what they said?

Just curious if you have a theory

[tidal cipher]

Wasn't Roger just given the title of Pirate King by the Government as a figure of ending the pirate era with his execution?

[terse moon]

I think it was the media and the people that gave him that name

[modest skiff]

I think they both wanted to travel to the sun

[terse moon]

Go to the moon

[toxic tundra]

there was a guy on YT who made a 4hr long theory of everything that said that they wanted to throw the biggest party. why do you think its the sun?

[silver sphinx]

artur said that. and i'm inclined to agree with him.

[rustic jasper]

cuz he's the first one who found one piece i think

[coral siren]

#manga #also-manga

Btw, if it was Roger's Treasure and he found it, then wouldn't the treasure belong to someone else like JoyBoy?

[rustic jasper]

he didn't get it tho, as he said he was too early, he just found laugh tale

[young hedge]

Spoilers

[coral siren]

... He had the one piece, that's why he was called Pirate King.. Pirates steal treasures or atleast that's what they are stereotyped mostly for.

[young hedge]

When?? Spoilers

[toxic tundra]

i think he was too early for the events that were/are going to unfold, but he did have treasure there, which was the one piece - along with the true history.

[rustic jasper]

imo one piece is not actually in raftel, its something bigger thats why they laughed when they read the thing in raftel

[coral siren]

Also the real name of the last island is "Raftel". It's translated to "Laugh Tale" in english because of how it sounds.

[coral siren]

Explain why he said "I put it all in one piece, I don't care if you take it, find it all in one piece there!".

[rustic jasper]

its laugh tales because roger and his crew thought the "tale" was funny

[coral siren]

Dude, he had the one piece treasure man, have you watched the Anime or even read the manga at all?

[rustic jasper]

all of "his" treasure

[toxic tundra]

I do wonder though... if everyone knew in Roger's crew knew that there was going to be something big in 20yrs (from their point of view), did Roger actually have to actually START the pirate age by revealing one piece? 😂 if it was already "destined" to happen, would it have mattered if he even announced about one piece right before his death?

[coral siren]

HIS TREASURE IS THE ONE PIECE

[rustic jasper]

no he didn't, he literally said we were too early, maybe raftel had treasures, but no he didn't get the one piece

what chapter are you on bruv

[coral siren]

HE SAID HE WAS TOO EARLY BECAUSE THERE WOULD BE A MUCH BIGGER ERA AFTER THEIRS

[toxic tundra]

yes its possible. but i think they laughed because of something so obvious ... and that they couldnt do anything about it until 20yrs from that point.

[rustic jasper]

no he was too early because someone would shake the world and complete the onepiece 🤦(in 20 years)

[coral siren]

Okay how do you know all of these exactly? did you write up a fan fiction of one piece?

[rustic jasper]

thats why the next era "will surpass roger and his crews"

[coral siren]

I do think he was talking about Power, Wealth, Fame.

[rustic jasper]

no because I watched the series 🧍

[tidal cipher]

Wouldn't Roger being sick also play a small role into entire situation

[rustic jasper]

bruv what chapter are you on 😭

[coral siren]

then how do u come up with the idea of him not having the one piece treasure? I mean, it was literally in the opening of one piece for like a few episodes, "My wealth and treasures? If you want it, you can have it! Search for it!"

[rustic jasper]

not rlly, since the sb's said someone will be born after 20 years

[coral siren]

And also, in the manga, Roger had the treasure. It wasn't shown but obvious if he found wealth.

[tidal cipher]

I see

[coral siren]

Which is Poseidon/Shirahoshi and probably luffy.

[rustic jasper]

🤦 he said one piece isn't complete tho

[toxic tundra]

where did he say that?

[coral siren]

I don't remember him saying that, or I just have bad memory.

[rustic jasper]

and possibly momonosuke, all of them will find one piece and complete the history

[coral siren]

Question, is the personalities of the 3 admirals (Including former one, Kuzan) actually foreshadowing to something? Like Kizaru being slow, Akainu being cold hearted and Kuzan being warm hearted?

[rustic jasper]

imo its to represent different types of justice

[untold flicker]

I have a feeling that since joyboy is luffy I would say that luffy can eat another devil fruit.

[coral siren]

Why did Kuzan freeze his bestfriend Jaguar D. Saul if he did have true justice? and why didn't he stop akainu and just become part of the Revolutionary Army to rebel?

[coral siren]

Joyboy and Luffy would be one person.

[rustic jasper]

i think "true justice" meant doing the right thing even if people would think its wrong

[untold flicker]

joyboy has his own soul, luffy has his own soul, one soul=1 devil fruit.

[rustic jasper]

absolute justice on the other hand does everything "upright" thats why akainu even almost killed cobey

[coral siren]

Not confirmed but possible

[rustic jasper]

imo joyboy's will was stored on the fruit

[coral siren]

Do you think Pirates are actually the good side when it comes to justice?

[untold flicker]

I think we'll figure out the secrets of his devil fruit.

[rustic jasper]

some pirates example luffy wb and roger

[untold flicker]

I also think the reason why the void century is taboo is because of this devil fruit.

[toxic tundra]

there is a mix. some are good, some are bad, but they all want their own freedom.

[rustic jasper]

lion shiki, that giant who aokiji helped

[untold flicker]

Blackbeard is the definition of a a real pirate.

[rustic jasper]

not rlly, some only wants one piece 🧐

[coral siren]

How is Shiki a good pirate? He wanted to kill roger?

[rustic jasper]

isn't he the one who saved the slaves

[untold flicker]

shanks

[coral siren]

Dont think so.

[toxic tundra]

that was tiger. shiki was the one who escaped impel down before luffy did. shiki is the guy with the float fruit ability.

[rustic jasper]

oh ic

[rustic jasper]

yuh

[summer urchin]

did we ever see him for over a couple of panels?

cuz i dont really remember him

[toxic tundra]

there was a chapter when the strong world movie came out.

[rustic jasper]

i think when talking abt roger and abt luffys escape yeah

[toxic tundra]

wasnt there a chapter 0 or something about shiki? 🤔

[rustic jasper]

idk

[toxic tundra]

yep, look it up. its chapter 0 - strong world. it was a special released chapter when the movie came out.

[rustic jasper]

:0

[willow plaza]

In that Roger uses similar storm like powers as dragon to take down shiki

[true path]

Does anyone have any ideas as to why Luffy's hair has gone all gooey? My personal theory is that in awakening as Joy Boy he's also going to awaken his devil fruit, but we'll see

[paper bloom]

lufffy getting a wave check

[tardy dock]

Due to Joyboy probably coming back via his Devil fruit’s connection to Luffy, he probably came back with awakened powers.

[wet perch]

Wanokuni OST track titles…

Disc 1 tracks 14 and 15, check the track names

[amber oar]

yes it's been discussed already in other channels, those tracks also have a lot of.... drums

[rustic jasper]

defo fruit awakening

[quaint laurel]

luffy gon be saucy with it no kizzy

kaido finna be Laido

[true path]

wait what's this theory about his devil fruit being connected to Joy Boy?

[modest skiff]

I'll tell you why I don't think its a party and why I don't think the One Piece is sake:

1. A dream of a giant party would not make the 4 people to hear the dream stated dumbfounded. Whatever the dream is, it is very strange, unique, uncommon and not something anyone would ever expect.

A party is fairly simple and easy to imagine as a dream

2. If the one piece was sake for the world's biggest party, it would not be something to be feared or coveted. Throughout One Piece, sake is what comes after everything is done. It is never instrumental in making things happen. I just don't buy the idea that the One Piece isn't actually something to care about. I don't think it is what comes after the story is done. I think the One Piece will actually do something.

My theory a long time ago was that the One Piece is some sort of drum that is similar to Belo Betty's power. One of my theories was that the reason Conq Haki is actually a big deal is that people with strong Conq Haki can play this drum in a way that inspires/reaches the whole world. This would make it a really big deal against an oppressive government. In my theory, I basically see the drum as a way to snap people out of being scared of the government and being willing to fight. But that is just a global version of Belo Betty's power, so I kinda don't actually feel great about it. Once 1043 came out, I was like "oh shit, what if I was right".

One thing that makes my theory not great is that if Joyboy was able to make that drum beating sound without the one piece, it would be weird for the one piece to also be a drum.

I still feel decent about the One Piece being some sort of musical instrument, but it is hard to think of a power it would have that isn't related to Belo Betty's power. Either way, I don't have a good idea for what the One Piece is (control water level, transportation to the highest level of the white sea, transportation to another planet, there are a few theories I have, but none feel solid), but I really don't think it is sake

[true path]

whatever the one piece is, it is going to make us laugh

[rustic jasper]

cuz its possible that joyboy is closely connected to the fruit, maybe his inherited will or smt

[modest skiff]

I'm not convinced it'll make us laugh. I still think Roger laughed because everything he learned at Laugh Tale indicated he was not nearly as much of a badass as he thought he was. I think that when he learned about how big the world is (including other planets), he realized that being #1 pirate during his age, on his planet, was really not all that impressive, given what else is out there or what else has happened in the past. I think the laugh was from him feeling humble

[foggy iris]

I think that a huge party as your life goal and your only reason to be the Pirate King is strange enough to react like that and ask Yamato to dont laugh about it. Im not saying that this is the only option, but its a viable option indeed

[true path]

I think it will make us laugh because that's very much Oda's style

[modest skiff]

It makes sense with Yamato but it does not make sense with Sabo, Ace and Oden. Maybe WB.

But as I said, its not like I know, so shrug. I won't pretend I actually know anything here. Maybe its a party, but I am not leaning that direction

[foggy iris]

We're already expecting him to make us laugh, so its going to be even harder. If he really manages to make us laugh after all, this really is going to be a masterpiece

[true path]

I think that whatever is on Laugh Tale, it is so big that it can't be moved except by someone with the power to control the big creatures like the Sea Kings and Zunesha which could actually move something so large

I wonder if that's the joke... maybe the joke is that it's absurd that something so big was so hard to find

[foggy iris]

I dont think its something that needs to be carried from there. Just lore from the void century

[rustic jasper]

yeah because one piece is the name of the planet 🧐

[modest skiff]

I had the same thought when the seakings caught Noah. It would also explain the laughter. Something unfathomably large that is totally useless without a group of Seakings

[foggy iris]

I believe that One Piece is the name of the Joy Boy's project to destroy the Red Line together with Mariejois and the WG. That would stop the world from being divided in two pieces by the red line and end up being a One Piece as a whole

That way everyone would be free by not having the WG controlling everything, they would be able to travel around the world easier and the All Blue would finally be a thing

[mighty junco]

this is an interesting theory 👀

[toxic tundra]

yeah, im not sure if that sake theory will be true. its plausible and he put everything together really well. that being said, im not sure if one piece being a drum makes more plausible. i do hope that conqueror's is still more than just a stronger attack. i always liked the intimidation part of it, but that hasnt been used since its actual reveal in battle.

going back and reading ch. 967 again... the last few panels, couldnt one piece just be the story that made roger laugh? or is it the actual treasure that joyboy left on that island? 🤔

[modest skiff]

Oda confirmed it is an object rather than some kinda idea etc

[toxic tundra]

true

[foggy iris]

Well, a Poneglyph is an object

[sturdy sinew]

So what did Roger tell to shanks?

[foggy iris]

Yohohoho

Well, maybe he told him the story and that they will need him to carry the future generation because he wont be alive to fulfill JoyBoy's plan

[sturdy sinew]

Look for a devil fruit?

[foggy iris]

That alone wouldn't make him cry

[vestal orbit]

shanks heard him laughing and babbling and started crying because he thought roger went senile

[sturdy sinew]

Yeah

[heady parrot]

Niko Niko no Mi fits 2-9 and literally means sunlight 🤔 sun god nika anyone.

[toxic tundra]

is this for luffy's real fruit name?

[heady parrot]

It’s another possibility. So far the best i’ve seen are Jushi and Nika but Niko more correctly fits the 2-9 pattern than Nika and translates to sunlight so I was wondering why it hadn’t been brought to the conversation.

[pure raven]

Why would that pose a threat for the gov

[toxic tundra]

whats the 2-9 pattern?

[sturdy sinew]

How about stretching? Then it's like kizaru?

[foggy iris]

If Luffy's fruit its the Niko Niko no mi, what about the 5 - 6 ???

Anyways im on the Jushi Jushi no mi boat

[sturdy sinew]

What are those numbers? Haha

[heady parrot]

Who knows. How does resin or rubber pose a threat? If anything it would be an interesting direct counter and parallel to blackbeards darkness fruit. A sunlight man versus a darkness man.

[toxic tundra]

yeah, im lost too 😓

[sturdy sinew]

So luffy stretches because?

If he is a sunlight man

[toxic tundra]

but BB is not part of WG. also we have the fire-fire (and the light fruit from kizaru) that can counter the darkness of BB's fruit

[foggy iris]

Anyways. What about the numbers thing if Yamato joins the crew??

[heady parrot]

SBS Volume 59
D: Odacchi! I noticed an amazing thing!!! It is that if you show the Straw Hat Devil Fruit users in numbers, it will be the numbers from 1~10!!
Luffy→Gomu Gomu (5.6.5.6.), Chopper→Hito Hito (1.10.1.10), Robin→Hana Hana (8.7.8.7.), Brook→Yomi Yomi (4.3.4.3.)
(1.3.4.5.6.7.8.10), but there is no (2.9), so is the one who ate the Nikyu Nikyu (2.9.2.9.) no Mi, Bartholomew Kuma, gonna be a Straw Hat next? Please tell me!!! P.N. SHANKUS.LOVE
O: WHAAAAAT?! (shock) Gosh that surprised me! Why was I surprised?! NO COMMENTTTTTTT!!!!!!!! NEXT!!

[foggy iris]

Yamato's df can fill the 5 - 6?

[heady parrot]

also if you add all the numbers up as single whole numbers including 2-9 as 29 then you’d get 325 which is San-Ni-Go or Sunny Go so it’s clearly intentional.

[sturdy sinew]

Goda

[foggy iris]

Can you answer this, dev?

[toxic tundra]

very interesting. if its true, thats amazing lol.

[sturdy sinew]

Kinda like that sunlight man. Kind like where sun is involve

Romance dawn

[heady parrot]

yamato has the mythical inu inu no mi correct? i don’t think the word inu really fits any number pun. the goro goro no mi does fit the 5-6 though. and the fuku fuku which is kinemons df fits the 2-9 if luffy stays as 5-6.

Kuma’s Nikyu Nikyu also fits 2-9 and was the df that was mentioned in the original SBS that popularized the theory.

[foggy iris]

Hmmm

Well, I can refuse Yamato as nakama if Nami ends up with the Goro Goro no mi hahaha

[true path]

how does fuku fuku fit the 2-9?

[foggy iris]

Maybe Yamato joins the fleet, not the crew??

[true path]

Will Luffy still be Luffy after awakening as Joy Boy?

[foggy iris]

Yes, for sure. Maybe not in the next chapters, but he cant stop being Luffy forever since he's the mc

[toxic tundra]

yes...eventually. who knows what happens as soon as we get back to luffy in the story.

[heady parrot]

2 can be read as futatsu with fu as the shorthand. 9 can be read as ku instead of kyuu. 9 can also be read as ko which is where the niko niko and nika nika theories come from with ka being an unpopular but technically still correct way to say 9.

[true path]

Hmm, if Joy Boy is a title, not a person per-se, then we don't have to worry about losing our boy luffy to some spiritual reincarnation takeover

[idle dew]

Isn't rubber made from resin

What if Luffy is still a rubber boy/the gomu gomu no mi, but the awakening reverted the rubber to its original substance which is resin

[idle dew]

That way the fruit gorosei talked about isn't luffys

[heady parrot]

“resin” is a huge catch all term. if luffy is still just rubber, then what we’re seeing could just be natural rubber superheated to above 200° celsius which would result in latex which is the resin that makes rubber.

[true path]

According to wikipedia, Latex is "a complex emulsion that coagulates on exposure to air, consisting of proteins, alkaloids, starches, sugars, oils, tannins, resins, and gums."

What is the word for Latex is Japanese?

乳液

[idle dew]

Did you look into odas 3 favourite panels?

[true path]

Nyuki means emulsion holy shit guys

Am I just seeing things or is that close to 9-2 or 2-9

[heady parrot]

latex doesn’t have a good fit so he’d probably end up staying the gomu gomu which is just the solid form of latex meaning luffys awakening and the df the gorosei are worried about is a red herring and someone else on wano.

[heady parrot]

if you switched the n and k it would 9-2 but that wouldn’t work with the San-Ni-Go portion of the theory because it would change 2-9 / 29 to 9-2 / 92.

[true path]

Wait what if it's actually the Meat-Meat fruit

Niku-Niku

[heady parrot]

also if luffy is the Jushi Jushi no Mi that would have some interesting implications for the crew or the abandonment of the df number theory in general. Since it would make Luffy 10-4, numbers that were precisely held by Choppers Hito (1-10) and Brooks Yomi (4-3).

[true path]

What is the Jushi-Jushi no mi?

[heady parrot]

lol i saw that one too it does fit but it’d be hard to fit that to luffys powers. if luffy stays 5-6 maybe we can get a meat meat user one day lol.

[true path]

Really? I think it's pretty damn easy: it allows Luffy to manipulate his own meat

That's basically what gear 4 is anyway... it fits too because it's been in front of us this whole time

[heady parrot]

i mean. you’re not wrong 🤣 i wouldn’t be against it.

[modest skiff]

Meat doesn’t explain non conductive or bounciness

[heady parrot]

true

[true path]

Maybe that's just it though, maybe rubber's awakened form is just straight up a different fruit

[heady parrot]

this is the graphic everyone’s been posting. probably the most popular theory on the true name of luffys df rn. credit to /u/pringles on reddit.

For me it ruins the number theory tho if it’s the true name and not just a hint at it’s awakened powers.

but like oda don’t give a fuck about our theories so if it don’t happen it don’t happen but San-Ni-Go is too good to not be true.

[foggy iris]

My take on this is that Joy Boy was the nickname of Nika, as strawhat for Luffy. After he died, the nick turned into a title, but what Zunesha might be meaning rn is that Nika, the original Joy Boy from 800 years ago, is back

[heady parrot]

my only thing is why would joyboy’s nakama zunesha call joyboy by the equivalent of luffys crew mates calling him strawhat. they always call him by his actual name and if they were nakama wouldn’t it be the same?

[true path]

What if the 2-9 comes from it being Nika's fruit, but it is actually the Jushi-Jushi no mi?

[foggy iris]

Maybe he meet him when that was his nickname already as Law calls Luffy strawhat-ya

[heady parrot]

like in 800 years if brooks was tortured to walk the seas til luffys will or whatever returned would he say “strawhat has returned!!” ? wouldn’t it be luffy?

[foggy iris]

Law would do

[true path]

Not if it wasn't actually Luffy

[foggy iris]

Joy Boy is how he signed the Poneglyph, so that nickname has a stronger meaning than Strawhat anyways

As Shirohige is a stronger nickname. He isnt known as Edward Newgate

[heady parrot]

i’ve seen a lot like this. like it could be the jushi jushi or gomu gomu it don’t matter because it’s named after Nika. it wouldn’t be unprecedented i mean we just met toki who was from the void century and for some weird reason has the same name as her fruit. maybe there’s more there to that.

[heady parrot]

that’s a fair point. i concede.

[solid nacelle]

@weak finch is here

[tardy dock]

I was just supporting your theory lol

[heady parrot]

🔥 thanks all credit to him

[true path]

Yeah, maybe the Sun Sun fruit is just another name for it because the person using it has such a sunny disposition (I mean he is named Joy Boy)

[heady parrot]

good graphic for quickly explaining the theory

[idle dew]

What's San ni go

[foggy iris]

Wait a second

[heady parrot]

yeah and Nika is an onomatopoeia for smiling or grinning in a cheeky way which is what luffy is known for. it could then double up as a fruit that embodies the concept of the sun and smiles.

[true path]

If you add up all the SH devil fruit names as numbers except for 29 (which is missing), then you get 325 which is San-Ni-Go which is sunny go

[idle dew]

And what exactly does that prove

[nimble thistle]

This is a theory I came up with months ago and it was just kind of handwaved. 🤷

[true path]

nothing it's just a neat thing that would fit Oda's obsession with numbers

[foggy iris]

We saw that the thing melting could be just the strawhat. What if Luffy stays as the 5 - 6 gomu gomu, and the strawhat is the one with the new 2 - 9 fruit??? We already saw objects with devil fruits, so~

[true path]

OH SHIT WHOA NOW THAT'S A THEORY....

[idle dew]

Bro luffy wasn't wearing it

[true path]

details lmao

[foggy iris]

Wow. For me is the base theory for everyting

[idle dew]

It was on his back, that's his hair

Already disproven sorry

[foggy iris]

The hat is getting up on his head by himself?? (?

[true path]

I think it's just that it's such an old and widely accepted theory that it's not blowing anyone's minds

[idle dew]

THE HAT IS JOYBOY?!???

[heady parrot]

it would be an homage to the thousand sunny and the fact that 29 is what’s missing and adding that to the total brings 325 San-Ni-Go adds credence to whole idea. it just lines up too perfectly. and oda is aware of the number theory per SBS volume 59.

[idle dew]

I found a video with the exact same theory that's from like 2012

[true path]

Yeah the theory that the red line will be destroyed by the reincarnation of Joy Boy (aka luffy) is just too perfect to not be true

[foggy iris]

Yeah

[idle dew]

It'd make sense tho, 3 ancient weapons, the fourth is at laughtale (Luffy dream), when used together they destroy the red line, and the reverse Mountain gets destroyed (brook and sanjis dreams) as the all blue forms from the water all flowing in the hole created by RM

Whitebeards final words prove it too

[foggy iris]

3 weapons on the world. Joy Boy's story and scheme on how to use the weapons on Laughtale* thats my take

[heady parrot]

the only thing the giants of the past couldn’t slay was the “great serpent soaked in blood” from dory and brogy. think that was pretty heavy early foreshadowing that an ancient giant attacked or planned to attack the red line and failed. the great serpent soaked in blood being the red line and the giant being joyboy.

[idle dew]

Project: One Piece
Once the all blue is formed, joyboy and all the people of the world can party as one and laugh

Laugh - tale

[foggy iris]

Plus the Madam Shirley vision on how Luffy destroys Gyojin Island being him destroying the RedLine starting from Mariejois, which is just above Gyojin Island

[cedar venture]

If luffy is possessed then it is possible

[true path]

Do we think this is finally going to be the end of Act 3?

[foggy iris]

Not necessarily. The plan would be for the Gyojins to evacuate in the Noah, so they can destroy that side of the Red Line safely

[foggy iris]

It seemed that way, but with Luffy's awakening looks like its going to take a little longer

[true path]

What's the five-act pattern? Can someone remind me?

[pure raven]

We’re not getting 5 acts; Oda doesnt have enough life in him to keep it going

[true path]

I'm talking about for Wano silly lol

[heady parrot]

we could have 5 acts if the last two are like 15 and 5 chapters respectively.

with act 5 being the equivalent of a post wano arc

[foggy iris]

The party arc

[true path]

"Nearly every full-length play occupies five acts. The first corresponds to jo, an auspicious and slow opening which introduces the audience to the characters and the plot. The next three acts correspond to ha, where events speed up, culminating almost always in a great moment of drama or tragedy in the third act, and possibly a battle in the second or fourth acts. The final act, corresponding to kyū, is almost always short, providing a quick and satisfying conclusion."

[heady parrot]

what if we have an inversion of sabaody after wano where joyboy in luffys possessed body runs off to fulfill his promise to the fish men and the strawhats are left behind to chase after him.

[foggy iris]

What xD

[heady parrot]

also is zoro being set up for somebody possessing his body as well with how he has supposedly died? if luffy is being possessed that is.

are zoro and luffy going to have to escape hell together to return to their bodies? would be a pretty nice parallel to bon clay appearing as zoro in impel down when he first appeared.

[foggy iris]

Next chapter: Ryuma vs Joy Boy

[true path]

That'd be crazy. I do think that this or what is about to happen is probably going to be the moment of great drama or tragedy in act three. Like Kaido will kill Momonosuke or something like that

[heady parrot]

I do have a feeling with all these near deaths and maybe deaths that we definitely can’t leave without at least one tragic death. It’s just been teased too much.

[foggy iris]

I still dont understand Zoro's panel with the reaper

[tepid coral]

@frigid patio #promote-yourself

[true path]

Woah I read a crazy theory: Luffy's "Death" is the first time we've seen someone with the Will of D die without smiling. Perhaps the will of D keeps you from truly dying if you aren't happy with your death

Idk if this is true or not

[heady parrot]

that’s not a bad idea

[tepid coral]

@true path No other series references pl

[true path]

My bad, sorry about that

[heady parrot]

i have a strong feeling we’ll get a zoro update or the zoro situation resolved in 1049 since 10 (ju) and 4-9 (shiku) can be read as cursed death / ribbon of death

[lyric berry]

He is talking about wano- it’s safe to assume Oda has abandoned the 5 act structure. Act 1 was 15 chapters, act 2 around 30. act 3 has already been about 80

[true path]

I saw a theory that Luffy has restarted his heart by using the power of the gum-gum fruit to simulate his heart muscles' contractions after he died

[heady parrot]

unless act 3 is triple act 2 which would put the end of act 3 at 1048. if act 3 doesn’t end at 90 chapters tho then i’ll completely abandon hope on the 5 act structure.

[heady parrot]

i like this one because it’s something that has already happened in universe with enel. after it seemed like he was already dead his df powers were able to restart his heart and bring him back before it was too late.

[lyric berry]

Even then there’s no way there’s gonna be an act 5. That would drag out wano way longer than it needs to

[heady parrot]

makes sense that someone who can already control the blood in their body could restart their heart

[true path]

I think that it being a 5-act structure works if the 2nd and 4th acts are shorter. Act 3 ends soon, then act 4 and 5 are comparable in length to acts 2 and 5 respectively

[true path]

The fifth act in kabuki theatre is usually really short, and quickly ends the story. So... it would be negligible

[lyric berry]

that’s another at least 60 chapters which would drag wano out another 1-1.5 years

[foggy iris]

Yeah, like Enel did but idk. I rather getting the Joy Boy possession

[lyric berry]

Idk if Oda wants us to be in wano for that much more. My estimate is we finish wano this summer

[foggy iris]

Same

[true path]

It could be part of his awakening and like Enel... I still don't think that it's a possession. I don't think that'd be very fun

It'd feel like it wasn't Luffy's win

[sturdy sinew]

Eh maybe zoro just having hallucination

[foggy iris]

Well, it neither was Kaido's win, so its a tie(?

[true path]

Kaido did win though. Oda declared Kaido a winner

[foggy iris]

With the CP0 help

[sturdy sinew]

Yeah so another battle

[heady parrot]

nah some quick mafs actually shows it could end as early as 1069 if there’s no intermediary chapters between 3 and 4. if there is intermediary chapters between 3-4 but none between 4 and 5 since i think 5 would be 5 chapters max then we’d end wano at or before 1072 which coincidentally is the final scheduled chapter of 2022.

[sturdy sinew]

Another battle kaido just too strong

[true path]

Kaido's fight also started with interference from Kid and Law...

[lyric berry]

If there IS an act 4 and 5 I hope this is the case. I really think Oda should wrap up wano

[foggy iris]

I mean, it was, but Kaido himself wont recognise that as a win

[lyric berry]

Ideally I actually hope wano ends much earlier.

[true path]

How many chapters is it from Donflamingo's defeat and the end of Dressrosa?

[sturdy sinew]

Eh more lore on wano after battle?

[heady parrot]

yeah same. i think ending wano in 2022 and starting 2023 sailing to a new island starting a new saga would be a good middle ground for those that want out of wano and those that want some more drama out of wano which would inevitably take a bit more time.

[tepid coral]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using #manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description.

[tepid coral]

This channel's purpose is for lengthier discussions, we already have #manga and #also-manga for casual convo like these

[true path]

This kinda got out of hand from the Kabuki discussion. But I don't feel like Oda is the kind of author to abandon the 5-act structure. He's instead the type to drag out arcs long past their original intended durations, much like what happened with WCI

[heady parrot]

tbf the convo started as theories this is just how they typically devolve over time. let’s move to one of the others tho.

[true path]

What is the deal with the Zoro reaper? Is it just a metaphor?

[tepid coral]

As I said questions like these should go to #manga

[true path]

The one thing that lends favor to the theory that Luffy is being possessed by Joy Boy is that it would more acutely explain an increase in stamina. Awakening one's devil fruit is supposed to be very taxing for stamina unless you have mastered it, and Luffy clearly stated he was running on fumes

[rough violet]

Doing it without stamina may shorten his life again

I think the things luffy is doing will turn in an illness later in his life like when he was poisoned in impel down his life was shortened by 10 years and using gear 3rd and 2nd affects his body too. Maybe afterwards law will perform the surgery on luffy and die himself trusting the future to luffy

[foggy iris]

This consistently life shortening might end up in something horrible

Yeah, exactly

[shell leaf]

Could be a parallel to Rogers early death, no?

[rough violet]

But if law performs that surgery luffy will literally be immortal but its also possibel that he will die early saying he don't want to be alive forever where all of his friends are dead and he still would have to keep on living

[foggy gulch]

Luffy might get a "you've got a few months to live" type of talk from chopper

[foggy iris]

Maybe that's where the Law's ability to make someone immortal in exchange for his life comes into play. But I wont like either an immortal Luffy

[untold charm]

pretty sure Luffy doesn’t die in the series

[shell leaf]

With Oda you never know

[mint prairie]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using #manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description.

[rough violet]

Oda said that op ending will be much sadder than ace's death at marineford so its possible op ends with luffy's death

[foggy gulch]

No of course not but still oda will up the stakes

[foggy iris]

Already did

[pure raven]

oh no

[untold charm]

Luffy did not “die” it’s just a symbolism

his “voice disappeared” doesn’t mean the dude literally died you know

[true path]

there was the silence sound effect. Not even his heart was beating. He died

[edgy viper]

@pure raven I just read your theory on awakening. Some big brain organic chemistry you're sporting here, I like it a lot

Your idea on Logia awakening is really compelling, because we can make a case for why Aokiji and Akainu permanently transformed PH: Once you "assimilated" with your element, even if you manifest your real body again and leave, traces of your consciousness/soul remain. This even has footing within your framework, as dissolving your "real body" means unifying with the element, ergo the mass of element the fruit user controls temporarily becomes the "body" that houses his soul.

The only question this then begs, is: How do you even damage an awakened Akainu that morphed into an entire pit of lava? Can you just poke the lava with Haki because Akainu is the lava? Can you extract the real body using Haki? It seems absolutely broken for fruits like the Pika Pika or Magu Magu no Mi that do not have inherent elemental weaknesses.

[hearty osprey]

Pour seawater on him

[edgy viper]

Well yeah, Kairoseki or seawater work
But it doesn't sit right for the alliance to run around with Super Soakers in the endgame, that's rather anticlimactic lmao

[grand walrus]

did you guys read the theory that sabaody was affected by the previous joyboy?

[heady parrot]

watch sakazuki go anti wg after all his frustrations with the gorosei and get “put out” by imu with the water water fruit.

[true path]

no please share

[grand walrus]

and fishman island bubble was created by him as well. so the bubbles in sabaody and fishman island were caused by joyboys awakening

so luffy if he is a resin ability man then he can coat noah and pop the fishman island bubble and take the fishmen to the sun

[hearty osprey]

So in theroy luffy could incase the island before it falls and then it floats?

[grand walrus]

u mean onigashima? yeah the bubbles from sabaody make everything inside them like a balloon (weightless)

[true path]

Oh what if JB is immune to seawater because JB can just create the resin bubbles whenever?

[grand walrus]

yes exactly

and if luffy wanted to, he could coat any number of ships, take them under water, and pop up in front of the Marine headquarters, he could also fly those ships up to mariejoise

[rough violet]

Yes they do as i saw them catrying things like balloons

[grand walrus]

most of this came from randy troys latest video he is a youtuber

[halcyon tusk]

is resin immune to electrical energy ie lightning..? i honestly don’t know

[grand walrus]

if it is rubber resin then maybe

[true path]

some resins are, according to that graphic that has been passed around

[halcyon tusk]

the resin doesn’t become rubber until other stuff happens though

[cyan sand]

you won't need to know organic chemistry to understand the devil fruit powers, resin or not, so if it is resin yes it shares the properties of rubber

[tepid coral]

!theories

[halcyon tusk]

i don’t know. it feels like it’s being intentionally misleading almost as if deliberate.. maybe we should just take what Oda said literally and just watch Luffy and disregard anything else like fruits lest we miss something truly important while chasing our tails so to speak

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using #manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description.

[tepid coral]

We have #manga or #also-manga for convo like these, this channel is for purpose of lengthier discussions

[mint prairie]

@dim herald Not the channel to ask for that, check the two messages above.

[dim herald]

Sorry

[polar shell]

nice

[raw owl]

why do i feel like we will see a backstory this week lol oda is such a troll

[pure raven]

Inb4 rebecca flashback

[shut heath]

Gum Gum Fruit history flashback lets gooo

[raw owl]

lol or joyboy backstory ?

lets wait and see when is chapter 1044 gonna be released?

[mint prairie]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using #manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description.

[mint prairie]

@polar shell@raw owl@pure raven@shut heath Manga chatter belongs to #manga and #also-manga.

[shut heath]

In all seriousness though, I was thinking on something today regarding what could happen as far as 1044 is concerned and regarding Luffy's DF.

I'm a bit of a sucker for power systems, so I study Devil Fruit a lot. Case being I made several subclasses based on powers we've seen. However there's only been 2 types of awakening shown for Paramecia abilities: Emitter-types, which gain increased range and application, and Producer Types, which can transform an environment into their related substance. However, Luffy is a Mutation-type, since his body has a permanent alteration, and we've not seen the potential that brings. Would a Mutation-type awakening expand on the properties of the ability further? (Transforming from say, rubber to resin allows more versatile forms of movement and combat with a logia-like body) Would it allow its user to apply its property to other things or people? Luffy saving his allies and wano citizens from a falling Onigashima by literally liquifying/rubberizing it, or protecting someone by using his awakening to give them the same physical properties he has?

It also calls into question the nature of awakening and how it comes into fruition, since 1044 will most likely be the first seen instance of an Awakening in the series.

[random plaza]

Cool

[glass comet]

Is there a theory about timeline of OP? Cause Some of the characters like toki,oden, roger pirates, and other knew that joybboy would come and they know it will be wano. How would they know that over a Glyph? and the Glyph in Fish man island joyoy apologize and said someone will fulfill his promise from the future. It's like this joyboy is gonna exist in luffys body over some intergalactic space time and gonna come back to his timeline and wrote the glyph.. lol

Or maybe joyboy soul is in the gomu gomu fruit??? and through his ego he knew he will posses someone who ate the fruit and gonna do wathever it takes to fullfil his promise

[grand walrus]

what i am most curious about is how did roger know he was too early? and oden seemed to pinpoint the time of joyboy coming to wano to exactly 20 years. why was it so precise? I know some people say that rayleigh was the one who manipulated it because luffy was 2 years too early anyway so he had luffy train for 2 years to coincide exactly with the moment of prophecy

[grand walrus]

this is possible too. So it was joyboys dream. But why did joyboy decide to wait exactly 800 years i wonder. was there some reason? like shirahoshi being of age? someone else?

[primal cargo]

Arguably he knew which year from the words of the Sea Kings, who said it would take 25 years for everything to be ready

[glass comet]

Maybe he couldnt really control the eater of the fruit he needs to choose the 'choosen one' crap like naruto and kurama

we dont even know who are the past user of the fruit or if there is

[grand walrus]

well if you think about it luffys fruit is very difficult to make useful. Like it took luffy years just to be able to master the gum gum pistol

[glass comet]

maybe its the will power to make something happen

[primal cargo]

I'd be really surprised if Luffy's Awakening doesn't fit the definition given by Doflamingo (your powers affects things other than yourself) at least a little bit
You'd think Oda would have decided from the start what Awakening would look like for Luffy, before introducing such a ground-breaking concept
So "turning into liquid rubber" doesn't really do it for me. I won't mind if it turns out to be another kind of power

[grand walrus]

if luffy has the resin fruit, and it gives him the abilities to make the bubbles we see in sabaody and fishman island, then the "drums of liberation" comment by zunisha makes a lot of sense. because those bubbles basically allow freedom of movement. the world government controls the world partially due to the geography of the world. they can say who goes where and when. with luffy's fruit, it becomes easy for anyone to travel anywhere. also, with those bubbles, you can easily climb to mariejoie with a huge fleet and threaten to WG

[novel ingot]

I Think Luffy with the Resin Awakening Could form a giant sabaody like bubble around Onigashima and save it from falling on the Capital

[pure raven]

i think we will see Imu sama in this chapter

[pure raven]

!alsomanga the other channel tho

[lone hedge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/164970986284777473/826311553754202112/cover1_1.png

[true path]

Okay after much thinking, I have a theory as to the overall outline of the rest of the arc:

• Luffy has awakened to the Jushi Jushi no Mi fruit, which was renamed the Gomu Gomu no Mi fruit by the WG because of the OP properties it has and its key role in the activation of the One Piece
• Kaido's rampage will be interrupted by Joy Boy/Luffy, and JB/Luffy will defeat Kaido (Kaido might also submit to JB)
• Kaido's defeat, while expected to us, is unexpected to the rest of the world and therefore fits the Kabuki theater pattern solidly
• Thus ends Act 3
• Intermission shows us the heavily foreshadowed waves occurring throughout the world at the news that the new generation has defeated Kaido
• Act 4 is the WG vs. Wano. The strawhats rush to the defense of Zunesha, who is assaulted by the WG forces. The Navy is defeated relatively quickly by the combined forces of the remnants of the battle
• Intermission sets up the next arc
• Act 5 is the swift resolution. Big party, the gang reconvenes and rests, and leaves Momonosuke crying but in charge and filled with determination. First rest the SH's have had in ages, and it is much needed

[coral siren]

Is it possible that since Luffy's name is pronounced "Rufi", and Laugh Tale in japanese is "Raf"tel, is it possible that Luffy and Raftel are related?.

[true path]

Laughy of Laugh Tale... it's possible I suppose

[cyan sand]

But then what about Rayleigh, or someone else with a name that starts with those sorts of letters? I don't mean to dismiss your idea but wordplay ideas are really hard for english natives to make sense of, I think yuderon the youtuber probably has the best stuff for that

[coral siren]

Rufi, Raftel. I think it's foreshadowing or that Gold D. Roger knows that Garp has a son and tells him to name his grandson "Luffy" after the island because he knows that he will be the big one in the next era.

[coral siren]

Ray is Y not F.

[cyan sand]

yeah and rufi isn't raf either

[coral siren]

but it has a F at the end same with LUF also notice how LUFFY sounds like LAUGHY idk

[primal cargo]

Well, it's Luffy not Laffy

[true path]

I think it's a stretch 🥁

[cyan sand]

There are only so many ways you can come up with names, I think it's a coincidence and "laugh tale" was the original thought

if you mean that there is some connection between luffy and raftel at all, absolutely, there's a vague idea of luffy -> joyboy? -> ancient kingdom -> laugh tale

[lyric canopy]

Oh

[shadow blade]

Is there a chance that luffy devil fruit is human human fruit model:nika sun god ?

[glass comet]

Hoping to see Luffys grandfleet soon

[tepid coral]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using #manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description.

[glass comet]

maybe after wano or sum like rescuing sabo

Is sabo even alive?? i feel like he's dead cause the old lady said ' i just came to knw that he's alive' while crying

[shadow blade]

Genuinely concerned if its the case no trolling i just saw the buddha fruit and it hit me

[shadow blade]

Again, why would u bring ace back just to kill him again ?

[carmine ember]

That would be cruel by Oda, to reintroduce Sabo just to kill him again

...Offscreen

[glass comet]

Lmao yeah we need more dramatic than that

Maybe like sabo turned into a slave

[tepid coral]

This channel is for lengthy theories discussion, if u wanna have a short quick one liner discussion u are most welcome to do so in #manga or #also-manga

[carmine ember]

Everything is good, as Long be is still alive. Maybe have a similiar situation as with Ace. But this time luffy is strong enough to save his Brother

[pure raven]

Thank you, yeah my Zoan paradigm is my favorite because it explains absolutely everything, and I don't think that happens often.

YES!! I didn't go into huge detail because I felt the text was already extensive enough - and the logia part is more speculative in itself.

But yes, even if you get out of awakening as a Logia, and manifest your body, the lava/cold you had assimilated still exists - and that is a possible explanation for Punk Hazard. It's exactly how you describe, and that's how I thought of it as a possibility.

How do you even damage an awakened Akainu that morphed into an entire pit of lava? Can you just poke the lava with Haki because Akainu is the lava? Can you extract the real body using Haki? It seems absolutely broken for fruits like the Pika Pika or Magu Magu no Mi that do not have inherent elemental weaknesses.

Haki would not work here yeah. Back to the basics of countering the element!

For Akainu - maybe solidify the magma (since Aokiji has a fruit that controls cold, it could be a good counter), or maybe if you're super strong or whatever, you could even evaporate the magma itself. Magma would STILL be an overpowered fruit, as you'd have to stop magma and not Akainu.

However, that's why I believe, as with Law, the awakening should be limited by time with stuff like stamina.

On the Pika Pika, I believe you would need to either have a material/vehicle that light can't pass through or idk a mirror armor?

Stuff that needs creativity or unique sets of abilities to be countered

which doesn't make haki irrelevant, it just would make fruits more relevant again

[narrow root]

i hope it will not end up like my hero academica.
it also has this strage phenomena that all quicks got some part of soul

[gritty ether]

when do you guys reckon the leaks will drop?

[edgy viper]

@pure raven I really like where this is going. My one and only criticism with Oda's powersystem is that Haki kinda retcons some things established pre-TS. The most prevalent example would be Blackbeard's obsession with the Yami Yami, which sits a bit odd considering, well, Haki, does the same thing without the drawback of becoming a magnet for physical damage.

If, however, awakened Logias are semi-immune to Haki (maybe to Armament but not to Advanced Conqueror's, that's a distinction I can see having narrative merit), Blackbeard's choice in vegetables becomes much more nuanced once again.

[pure raven]

Oh yeah that's one I didn't think about, I agree with you there.

On the CoC, it would make sense since it seems to repel anything

[coral siren]

Is it me or King without the mask looks like a young similar look to Rayleigh? And Rayleigh is called "Dark King Silvers Rayleigh", which ironically enough, King's costume is dark-themed. What could this mean?

[glass comet]

Semi immune? I think there's no such thing, the attacks would either go pass through or hit the logia user if the attacker have haki

[pure raven]

we are talking about a specific theory

here, go to the Logia section: #manga-theories message

[edgy viper]

I'm actually confident in saying ACoC mitigates Logia-awakening for one reason: there is no conceivable counter for darkness.

Light sure, you can use mirrors or destroy the source of light. Darkness, however, is not a "thing". Darkness is the absence of light and therefore more conceptual than tangible. If BB was in a cave and "became" darkness there is nothing to counter it because battery-driven flashlights don't exist in OP.

So the only way to counter an awakened BB is a) have the light fruit or b) have ACoC because the main character happens to not have the light fruit but has to beat him somehow.

Ah well I guess Oda could pull some shit with the Nika Nika no Mi making you smile so bright it penetrates even darkness, so I guess my point isn't that solid

[pure raven]

oh a fruit that absorbs even light - yeah its awakening would be massive. He'd absorb damage, but there's no body to feel damaged.

I agree with this assessment completely. CoC should counter the wills of others, and BB's will would be in the darkness.

Other than the light fruit - maybe a way to avoid darkness by enclosing yourself in the same vehicle that doesn't let light pass through, but inside of if you'd be lit up - now this would only work to avoid BB, not to win against him. ACoC being the best option.

What I said about homies works for Logia awakening:

• you counter the element
• you attack the soul

So ACoC fits into "attack the soul", Brook would possibly cut BB even in awakened form - if he happened to survive the encounter of course.

[rare cradle]

Observation haki should be all you need, Fuji is blind and likely uses observation to move around his surroundings. Unless you’re talking about being sucked into his darkness then i guess that would be similar to being in a pocket dimension with no inherit way to escape

[edgy viper]

Wait, BB himself stated the gravitational force of his fruit is so massive not even light can escape. Meaning that if BB merged with the darkness around him, you're fucked even if you have the light fruit.

Encasing yourself in mirrors, as you say, may let you evade BB but not tangibly hit him.

So going by your framework for Logia awakening ACoC, aka "attacking the soul", really is the only option left.

[pure raven]

well we are talking about a specific theory here, where BB would stop existing as a body and would assimilate completely with darkness - meaning he'd be darkness itself

Imagine Ace being a body that turns to fire - you can attack him with armament
Now imagine Prometheus being fire with a soul/will - you cannot attack him with armament

In this idea of logia awakening, Ace would be like Prometheus

And BB would be darkness itself with a soul, so I don't think Observation would help a whole lot

[pure raven]

yup, and maybe why he thought it was so strong - nothing in itself can beat it

Well not Ace now, Sabo

[edgy viper]

As you mention Prometheus, here's the 100 Million Beri question: Can foxfire style cut an awakened Akainu, say, can it cut magma?
It should, as we know that the Magu Magu is basically an upgraded version of the Mera Mera

[glass comet]

So youre saying in your theory that awakened logia user can became the element itself? Like turn into pure gas for example without any visible or physicall body just element @pure raven and haki can't touch them so it need some type of counter based of that element?

[edgy viper]

With this it stands to reason whether fire is the only element that can be imbued into attacks. Considering the Mink's electro this should work with electricity, too, which would be the counter for a fruit like Smoker's

I'm trying to apply this to every Logia we've seen so far
And the lowkey wildest awakening is Enel's I think. The dude should be able to merge with thunderstorms, essentially becoming the sky itself?

Caribou has me utterly puzzled I'll say

[pure raven]

hm even IF it doesn't, there MIGHT be a technique that counters magma

if it fits

• counter the element
• attack the soul

it fits

So stuff like
- basic elemental counter
- technique that targets element
- devices that counter the element's properties

- using one's own will power (CoC, ACoC)
- technique, power that targets the soul

should work. It requires, however, more unique and creative ways, and some Logias will be more susceptible to these than others

[pure raven]

yes

the perfect example is Sabo and Prometheus. This awakening would make Sabo a stronger Prometheus.

So you can only
- counter the element itself
- attack the soul directly

[pure raven]

or he'd just be something like a lightning Zeus?

[glass comet]

hm so just like kizaru? he's awakened and becoming the light itself to travel and teleport faster?

[pure raven]

Well I don't think Kizaru must be awakened right now, because his body becoming light is part of normal Logia powers. He'd have to become light itself with a soul for the awakening.

well his body would disappear and he'd be light itself, so he'd always be able to travel anywhere there is light in I guess, or he'd be like a light homie of sorts

You'd have to attack his soul or counter light (mirrors?)

[edgy viper]

Honestly I think Kizaru's fruit is the hardest to fit into any framework. He's light and that alone creates all sorts of problems, physics-wise. We should always take the Pika Pika with a grain of salt.

That being said, let's talk wavelenghts
We know via Chopper that changing the wavelength of your fruit (or your body?) changes its properties to a certain degree
How does this fit in with Paramecias and Logias? Do these have the same capability?

Robin comes to mind here. Her fruit for all we know is a Paramecia and according to your framework her demon-mode cannot be explained by awakening.
So is this an example of non-Zoan wavelength alteration?

[pure raven]

well here wavelength in zoans would be related to distribution of cells, right?

If that is the case - this means maybe it can be related to distributions of cells with the power

so you can make only your hand into fire
or maybe you can create magnetism only in your nose

[edgy viper]

Lmao you got me good with the magnetic nose

[pure raven]

I think that might just be a collection of small body parts that creates that image

[edgy viper]

But what causes the change from human-Robin into demon-Robin? She's never sprouted demon body parts before

[pure raven]

exactly, if we went up close, we'd not see demon body parts, but small human body parts

[edgy viper]

That looks like wavelenghth alteration to me, considering her extra limbs should be made up of the same cells her body

[pure raven]

see I believe it's the same cells that would exist in her body, but the distribution is different, making it look like a demon when we zoom out

and that is indeed the wavelength alteration I was talking about with distribution

[edgy viper]

Ah now I see, we agree then I think
The limbs she sprouts are of a different molecular composition and thus have different properties than her regular limbs

[pure raven]

I don't think they are of a different molecular composition though

[warm cave]

My message got deleted?????

Just saying how shanks could have a devil fruit 💀

[pure raven]

but cellular, different distribution of tissues

[cyan berry]

This channel is not the place for stupid jokes @warm cave

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using #manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description.

[cyan berry]

Either make actual serious theories or just leave this channel for good

you've already been warned about it

you wont be again

[pure raven]

What if the one piece is just a list of things joyboy must do when he is reincarnated and that's why roger said he was 'too early' because he is not joyboy

[warm cave]

Its not a joke , it could actually be true , and apologise to me if its really true in the future

[edgy viper]

You're right, we must be talking cellular level. Molecular doesn't make sense here, Chopper stays a deer.

[pure raven]

yeah if you see my drawings on Zoans, it never goes below cellular level

[edgy viper]

I was thinking maybe Paramecia could work differently, but I agree with your notion here
Do we have fruits similar to Robin's that are confirmed Paramecia? Karasu and Lafitte come to mind but we do not know what class their fruits belong to.

[pure raven]

yeah I talked about Karasu

#manga-theories message

but only on awakening

[edgy viper]

I saw it, but Karasu is impossible to classify. If he's a Logia he shouldn't have a wavelength alteration.

So we need similar fruits that are confirmed Paramecia

[toxic tundra]

why cant the demon-mode be explained by awakening? robin has a darker side/personality to her. she infused that with her fruit ability.

imo all fruits are just with basic power, but how the user uses their personality and creativity comes up with ways to enhance the power of the fruit. best example is luffy obviously, but also there are many others... look at Law and all the crazy things he can do thanks to his medical background lol.

also doflamingo and katakuri are similar too.

[edgy viper]

We're going by Stoop's framework where Paramecia awakening always means assigning your power to an entity that isn't yourself.
All we say is entirely adhering to that hypothesis, we try to see if we can poke holes in it or if it's solid.

[wintry lake]

Hoy leaks are coming tomorrow and I can’t wait

Maybe luffy ain’t gomu gomu but matter matter

[spice garnet]

...this channel is not for me coz i dont understand anything

[wintry lake]

Isn’t his fruit the nameless fruit?

[toxic tundra]

sorry, didnt read up on his theory. what do you/he mean by assigning to an entity? 🤔

[steady cosmos]

are you caught up?

[spice garnet]

well yes
currently reading this

[steady cosmos]

stay out of this channel until you are fully caught up you're gonna get spoiled

[spice garnet]

no like ive caught up but im reading the theories

[steady cosmos]

oohh

[solar raptor]

for some reason #spoilers lit up for me and I got so excited

[lucid trench]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/tja7sq/the_curious_case_of_luffy_and_why_everyone_is/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Who agrees?

[solar raptor]

No mention of buggy

cannot agree

[true path]

This theory overlooks the panel in chapter 1037 where the Five Elders are talking about a specific fruit which has another name, that they renamed it for secrecy

Personally I think the Will of D is more strongly linked to Conqueror's Haki than to Joyboy

[cinder void]

Zoro isn't a D

nor Rayleigh

I agree with the 1st part tho

[toxic tundra]

but isnt BB becoming darkness like smoker becoming smoke. with armament haki, they both can still be hit. and why couldnt prometheus be hit by armament? its still a physical being and also a made by devil fruit, so he could get hit by armament.

not sure why you guys are saying you need advanced conqueror's haki to hit logia awakenings.

[true path]

It's not a 1-1, but most people with a D have conquerors, and vice versa. There's definitely a pretty strong overlap

[primal cargo]

I personally think logia awakening is gonna be the exact same thing as the others, i.e turn your surroundings into your element.
Reason being 1 that it's by far the most obvious option, and it wouldn't be right for logia to be incapable of something that paramecia can
And 2 that the line between logia and paramecia is thin (I currently believe that the only reason Katakuri had to be a paramecia is because mochi is not natural)
In other words, if paramecia is a dump for any and all DF powers and yet Awakening works the same for all of them, then it should also be the case for logia
Zoan powers on the other hand are completely different from any non-Zoan, so I think there's more of an argument for them being different

[lucid trench]

Given the information we have already, this makes the most sense...about the fruit the gorosei sre talking about?...it could still be the gomu gomu no mi...but I don't think it has anything to do with Joyboy more than the will of D.

That's just my theory

[toxic tundra]

its possible, but i disagree. will of D appears to be something passed down for joyboy - waiting for the right person who will change the world again.

[cobalt frigate]

I think every time a D. dies the jar of the will of D. is filled a little bit. once the jar is full, joyboy awakens

[edgy viper]

#manga-theories message
It's this one

[true path]

Except that it all adds up:

• Shanks and his crew took the gomu gomu fruit from a heavily guarded WG location
• Therefore we know that the gomu gomu fruit was a fruit that was being kept under wraps
• The Five elders specifically talk about a fruit being kept so under wraps they renamed it
• The WG was hiding the giant straw hat
• The WG is terrified of JB coming back
• The WG specifically wants Luffy dead quietly while the battle is happening because they want to eliminate him as a threat but don't want to bring attention to the fact that they recognize him as a disproportionate threat

[cinder void]

Corazon says the D are the natural enemies of the Celestial Dragons, so I guess they were the families who opposed the CD.

[south verge]

The easiest way to difference logia and paramecia I think is to hit them.

If it didn't connects its logia with the only exception of yami yami no mi.

[toxic tundra]

imo, katakuri and magellan are similar. magellan could also be considered special paramecia too, right? didnt magellan also produce poison like kata produced mochi?

[raven flame]

can Joyboy be a fruit name ?? i know its weird, but but.. those who eat that gomu gomu fruit becomes joyboy?

[primal cargo]

Yes, but Magellan didn't have his body made of poison. He was only producing it. He couldn't reshape his body either

[lucid trench]

All good misdirection that Oda could us as he has used multiple times

I don't disagree the fruit they are talking about could be the gomu gomu no mi, but when it comes to Liffy being Joyboy, it's about will and specifically the will of D

[true path]

Except that they also mention that the fruit hasn't awakened for a very long time. Which means that it's not the Gomu Gomu no Mi that's the threat, but rather the awakened form

[toxic tundra]

its possible that the celestial dragons were like the kuzorumi clan (orochi) from wano... meaning that they were the ones who betrayed joyboy and took over as the WG.

[cobalt frigate]

it doesn't really fit into luffy's devil fruit form names: bounce man, snake man, joy boy ?

[lucid trench]

I don't disagree, but I'm talking about Luffy being Joyboy through the will of D...not the fruit making him Joyboy

[true path]

The Will of D. is general, whereas Joy Boy is specific. The lore revolving around Joy Boy specifically heralds his return at a specific point in the future, that he will fulfill his ancient promises and bring liberation. On the other hand, the Will of D. is more generally tied to opposing the Celestial Dragons and supporting freedom.

If you ask me, it is the Will of D. to support Joy Boy, but that doesn't mean that D = Joy Boy or vice versa

[toxic tundra]

unlikely since the fruit most likely had been eaten since 800 yrs ago. and the WG got possession of it at some point and was transferring it 20 or so yrs ago when shanks took it. but i do think the fruit + D initial combine to help bring back joyboy in someway.

[clear isle]

I have a theory, luffy is actually joyboy

[true path]

I support this theory, that Luffy has been Joy Boy all along and is really just "awakening" to his full potential. But he's always been the reincarnation of Joy Boy, and will continue to be

It's not that Luffy hasn't been JB, it's that he hasn't been recognized as JB yet

[toxic tundra]

the spoilers arent revealed / talked about here once they come out, right? i dont want to be reading the spoilers here and have someone talk about spoilers. i only read the title if i get impatient but never the contents of the spoilers until the actual chapter gets released.

[toxic tundra]

so reincarnation as in luffy is joyboy or is given the title of joyboy? i prefer luffy be given the title of JB rather than being a reincarnation or losing his personality to joyboy through the fruit.

[primal cargo]

Nope, only in the spoilers channel

[true path]

I mean I don't know how it's going to turn out, but I buy it as a valid possibility. If he's always been Joy Boy's, then his personality will not change at all (because he's always been Joy Boy), and his awakening his devil fruit is enough for Zunesha to recognize him as who he is.

[toxic tundra]

if luffy is Joyboy is some form - why was it that momo said he cant die? what is so special about him that he also needs to survive?

[quaint laurel]

1043 was special we can all say that but let’s be honest the amount of glorious moments that we’re still waiting on to happen in one piece is insane

[toxic tundra]

yeah, the only thing i dont like about that is luffy was on zoe/zunesha for a while and she never recognized him. ....... WOAH, just thought of something.

what if gomu gomu no mi was a fruit that was experimented by WG / Vegapunk and modified to hide the fruit's true ability and limit/restrict it. thats why the elders/imu were confident that the fruit was no threat before - even during marineford. thats why zunesha didnt recognize luffy/the fruit before. but the WG couldnt modify the awakening and thus it releases the full potential of the fruit. 🤔

[mystic tree]

Wg could use Gomu Gomu df itself. I still think that legendary df is not gomu gomu df.

[pure raven]

Me thinking the same lol

[lime cape]

We won't really know what the D. Means until we get into the Laughtale arc, it could mean anything the most popular:

-Dawn
-Drum
-Drunk
-Diana (moon goddess, the D. would b like a misspelled Moon kanji)

[toxic tundra]

any other possibilities that could be awakening in the heat of the battle? 🤔 momo's fruit doesnt seem like it. no other fruits were in as much of a high stakes battle. PLUS they ordered CP0 to change priority to luffy - which basically implies they were speaking about luffy's fruit.

speaking of that, how did the WG know a fruit was beginning to awaken. this is puzzling my mind a LOT. do they have a tracker/detector that a fruit is about to awaken even before the user is able to figure it out?

[toxic tundra]

i feel that Robin already knows but no one has asked her yet. she worked with dragon for 2yrs, its highly likely that came up. shes just sitting there with a lot of info and will reveal it when someone just asks her. 😂

[dapper stag]

or they could have talked about kidds fruit. that would bring a bit more focus to him and his df, since we already know so much about laws and luffys fruits

[lime cape]

Or momo

[toxic tundra]

yes, after reading the book. momo/yamato could know as well.

[dapper stag]

cause he is going head to head with kaido

anyone who manages to do that is an absolute menace but this is a good point tho

[lime cape]

One theory that I like but hardly believable it is that the gomu gomu can mimic any fruit

[toxic tundra]

now THAT would be dangerous 😂

[lime cape]

Redhawk: Ace
Hydra: Magellan
Kong organ: Robin
Melted hair: Caribou?

[dapper stag]

redhawk has to be somehow explained at one point. whats also worth noting, is that at least since gear 3, luffy is able to create rubber and extend his mass

[solar raptor]

Whitebeard -replaced by-> Blackbeard
Kaido -replaced by-> Kidd
Big Mom -replaced by-> Law
||Shanks|| -replaced by-> Luffy

Yonko after this arc

[lime cape]

What properties had caribou's fruit?

[bleak crest]

Does oda managers manage the social medias??

[dapper stag]

thing is, there will be no real power system after wano or until the final war

[solar raptor]

I have a theory that Red Hawk and Diable Jambe are actually just super basic application of Haki
And Sanji could do Diable Jambe because he was taught very basic haki

[dapper stag]

true. i think diable jambe was explained with this at the very first time sanji used it

[lime cape]

Sanji diable jamble is the result of his genetics

[toxic tundra]

no, it was sanji's passion!!! 😂 but yes, i agree both had to do with fast movement and causing heat through friction.

[solar raptor]

See I still don't believe it even if it is probably true
Being basic haki makes more sense to me esp because we don't know exactly how Sanji learnt haki

[dapper stag]

but redhawk is harder to explain with friction, but may ofc e possible

[solar raptor]

Resin is used a fuel for fires
Luffys fruit is resin

[lime cape]

I would bet that sanji has king's race genetics

[dapper stag]

interestingly enough, i have just read that resin is used by trees to cover open parts of it

[solar raptor]

RUBBER CAN'T JUST DO THAT

[lime cape]

But natural resin isn't 100% electric resistant

[dapper stag]

imagine luffy getting holed by akainu, but healing his wound with the resin

[toxic tundra]

yes, i agree too.

[dapper stag]

he changes it by punching the air so hard, that his fist changes direction

[solar raptor]

See my theory is that somehow the fruit was processed from Resin to Rubber (either by Imu or Joyboy himself)
And Luffy could only just tap into the resin till recently

Natural Rubber is just processed resin

[toxic tundra]

how so? but yes i always wondered how in snakeman, luffy seems to have unlimited length - but also very high speed for his attacks. wonder what causes those quick 90 degree turns and causes it to go EVEN faster than the last turn's speed.

[dapper stag]

it was explained in a reddit post.

yes he actually can, by pulling his fist into his arm again and then releasing it. tough to explain without pictures

[azure dust]

when do the spoilers release for new chapter?

[solar raptor]

Anytime between now and release

I am still convinced on Buggy D Clown
No one can ever convince me otherwise

[dapper stag]

exactly. thats pretty much how he does it

[lime cape]

Tomorrow afternoon

[azure dust]

someone in #manga told friday...are these dates just speculations of different people or there is a fixed one

[toxic tundra]

speculation. typically they get released tuesday/wednesday

[azure dust]

oo ok thx

[lime cape]

usually spoilers are filtered the day they scan it for the shonen jump

And the shonen jump is delivered on Thursdays

[mystic peak]

last one was released on monday so yea

[solar raptor]

||Fake|| Spoilers
-Luffy isn't joyboy
-Zoro actually is
-Zoro has the Fruit Fruit No Mi
-Kills Kaido in one shot
-Becomes the pirate king
END

[toxic tundra]

just realized buggy hasnt been given a last name either, just like shanks. i really do think that buggy will have a very big role in the end game of one piece. he - like luffy - also accidentally at his fruit while shanks was around. the chop-chop fruit - if awakened - could cause a lot of destruction. 🤔

[lime cape]

Usopp is the JoyBoy he uses the drums in the skypea camping

[solar raptor]

Okay jokes aside
I am actually reasonably convinced that Clown is a race in one piece
and thats just what Buggy and Ceaser look like

[tepid coral]

@solar raptor Read the channel description this channel is only for serious lengthy theory discussions and not for joke theories

[lime cape]

And it was shanks plan that buggy eat that specific fruit

[solar raptor]

I am kinda convinced Shanks is playing some weird 5D chess game
Shanks, Garp, Dragon and Imu are probably playing 5D chess behind the scenes

[lime cape]

Well he certainly said to Kaido that if he doesn't go to MarineFord he will be fighting JoyBoy in a few years, I doubt shanks actually defeated kaido

[tepid coral]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using #manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description.

[tepid coral]

Is it so hard to understand what I am saying?

Such casual convo should take place in #manga or #also-manga not here

[solar raptor]

@tepid coral from #manga becuase its theory tier stuff
I'm actually in the Joyboy wasn't a straight good guy camp
Something in the void century he did created the current caste system and Imu is resposible for maintatining it

just like Zushina is resonposible for walking around the world and Zou

[toxic tundra]

only thing i dont like about joyboy not being a good guy is that he left an apology letter at fishman island. if he was bad, i dont think he would have done that? 🤔

[solar raptor]

I didn't say he was bad, just not straight good

[cobalt frigate]

deleted by me

[tepid coral]

Actually such discussions are more suitable for #manga only because the purpose of the channel is lengthy discussions and well phrashed out theories to which one can give well phrashed replies, you can check out pinned messgaes for the examples of such theories(the length is not necessary to be that long but yeah like at least 2-3 paras should be enough for a lengthy discussion)

[cobalt frigate]

deleted by me

[tepid coral]

@cobalt frigate Again these questions are more suitable for #manga

[cobalt frigate]

I see sry

[solar kiln]

NOOOO

[tepid coral]

I certainly don't believe in joyboy being evil theory as there are many points that suggest against it.

First of all we know that he apologized to fish man island because he couldn't complete the promise of raising noah with poseidon's help,don't think any evil man will go to such limits to apologize for an incomplete promise. I think that raising noah was related to freeing fishman for discrimination cause if all the fishman had come to the human world with noah then they would had adapted to the human nature and would had been accepted as equals long ago but sadly joyboy couldn't complete his promise and that reason is somewhat related to imu in my opinion as like I said before in manga channel that I believe im was a rival of joyboy around 800 yrs ago and he build circumstances in such a way that joyboy couldn't complete his promise to fish man island which ultimately lead to seperation of fishmen from whole world and lead to the discrimination that we saw in sabody arc.

Secondly to add on to this(not related to the previous convo) but I believe that what we saw in the last chapter is nothing related to possession and stuff but it's just something to do with the title.

We know that joyboy was a relevant figure 800 yrs ago and he is the person who has left behind one piece, that one piece was founded by roger and crew but at that time they said it was too early. Also oden speculating that joyboy will reapper after 900yrs since he last appeared and king thinking that kaido is joyboy seems to hint at the fact that it is just a title for someone who is going to appear and save wano and many unknown threads about it will be opened in future and last chapter almost confirmed that luffy has appeared in the form of joyboy which means it's luffy who has the title of joyboy in this century.

[lunar topaz]

I need some zoro theories pls and ancient lore theories

[solar raptor]

Keyword being straight good guy

I think for the most part Joyboys intentions were good and he has a lot of regrets about the stuff that he did then ended up not working the way he wanted (such is Fishmen Island) and had a bigger impact on the world then I imagine even he could've predicted. If anything someone new taking his title would be his way of attoning for his mistakes and either fixing the world he broke, or finishing what he started, and to Add to my Imu thing it was a case of his followers either going off with their own interpretation of Joyboys actions or in defiance of Joyboys will

[rare cradle]

I think their have been multiple joyboys, luffy isn’t the second one but one of many. There is a panel with a sea king talking saying surely this time will succeed. Now it could of been talking about the OG joyboy but due to a unknown lifespan of seakings i think it’s unlikely that it is over 800 years old. But more likely old enough to seen at least one incarnation of joyboy before

[tepid coral]

Yep, joyboy was defeated in the void century and the whole kingdom was brought down and I believe im played the main role in the whole war by uniting the 20 kingdoms and the whole predujice system that exists today is because of joyboy's defeat and im's victory imo.

Secondly about the line of "Someone new taking his title and completing joyboy's leftover promises" , this thing is in a way being already done by luffy. Like in fish man island he saved fishman island from getting destroyed and was about to destroy noah too but sea kings saved noah and poseidon was awakened after many years. This whole event can be seen as the completing half promise of joyboy already because joyboy's promise was to take noah into human world with the help of sea kings and both of these were brought back into play after years by luffy. And the last chapter also indicated at luffy getting the title of joyboy, so yeah I am very sure about luffy getting the title of joyboy now

[pseudo cradle]

and odens wife is from then wano and when it was defeated she escaped with her sf ability travelled futuure 2 times and reached odens timeline

[digital crest]

I don’t think they’re talking about Joyboy here. This seems like it can be talking about Poseidon and Uranus. Because sovereign is meant to represent someone who holds a royal power like Shirahoshi but Joyboy doesn’t come across as the type of individual who would care about being a King or a ruler. Joyboy seems more so interested in representing freedom. So given that and what we know makes Shirahoshi the 1st sovereign it seems like 2nd sovereign should be Uranus since Pluton is a ship and we still have no info on Uranus

[tepid coral]

I understand where u are coming from, but oden saying someone (joyboy) will reappear after 900 yrs contradicts this point, cause oden's statement seemed more like a specific choosen person comes at a specific time when some events are bound to take place and toki's prediction and roger saying it was too early for them to find one piece, also kinda hint at the point that this is the first time joyboy will reappear in the world after void century.

[rare cradle]

Both valid points, i just thought it would be neat to have multiple joyboys over the centuries trying to usurp the WG and for them to constantly having to erase their existence.

[pure raven]

The plot implies and is based around Roger and Luffy having a similar ideology and mindset. As well as the goal they both have that we have no clue yet, whitebeards speech also implies that this specific will / ideology has been carried on since ancient times in his final word speech. It maybe a rare and uncommon ideology. Considering that the ancient kingdoms history has been buried and destroyed I would say it’s an extremely uncommon idea.

I don’t think Joyboy is a specific person.

[digital crest]

Their could be multiple attempts of Joyboy “existence” except Luffy would be the first successful one because remember in Reverie in the Frozen Chamber we see multiple hallways and Imu went into only one of them with the giant SH. So the other hallways could had been other potential candidates whose lights were extinguished as they failed to bring back the dawn aka Joyboy. There’s something more going on with those other rooms and they could link us with the void century and all the time that’s passed from then to the present

[pure raven]

It wouldn’t make sense for it to be biological as well. D. Is a big blood line and I don’t think it’s a genetic thing honestly.

[tepid coral]

Yes Indeed it the similarity between roger and luffy is strikingly visible, both wanted to be free and live without ant restraints and enjoy full freedom. And yes I also don't believe in joyboy returning as a specific person but joyboy returning in the form of title

[pure raven]

Xebec is most likely dragon's father which means Luffy is both grandson of the hero of the marines and grandson of the worst pirate

[pure raven]

Well said 👏

[pure raven]

Like we don’t know who Luffys grandfather is 😂

[tepid coral]

Also fellas if u are wondering why ur messages were deleted this channel is for serious theory discussions, any sort of casual questions or discussions should go to #manga or #also-manga not here

[pure raven]

Dragon is Garps son mate.

[pure raven]

Xebec is his father yes but not Garp's son

[tepid coral]

You have any points to elaborate on this thoery

@frigid oxide ask in #manga

[pure raven]

Xebec looks exactly like Dragon

[frigid oxide]

Kk

[pure raven]

I want to know about haki natures honestly I’ve been looking at why some people have different effects on the environment. Kind of like how Ace stopped drum island from snowing which is deemed impossible.

[pure raven]

We don’t know how xebecs facial features look like

[tepid coral]

I mean that doesn't really how it's done here, like the channel description says only drawn out and lengthy discussions are appreacited here, if u want to have casual one liner convo about theories like yours u are most welcome to go to #manga

[pure raven]

We also don’t know how large of a scale god island was compared to lets say marineford or maybe even Wano. As a war

[rough violet]

is that biologically possible? like garp and rocks

[rare cradle]

You have two grandfathers

[weak plaza]

I just saw this on google @@
is this real ?
Monkey D Rock Luffy ???
Is this theory real ?

[digital crest]

LMAO

[tepid coral]

Pl move on to #manga or #also-manga for such casual convo

[pure raven]

You just deleted my theory on purpose bruh

This is the only image we have gotten of xebec and his facial features are not obvious and it does not look like Dragon.

[weak plaza]

Is this theory real ?

[pure raven]

Search for Dawn of the World on YT she explains it rlly well

[weak plaza]

Alright

[hot elbow]

why on god's green earth are discussing dragon being xebec's son

[faint crater]

Who is Xebec again

[storm tree]

I didn’t remember they were all smiling on that panel

[weak plaza]

The legendary Rock pirate

[faint crater]

I think I have skipped his arc when reading the manga

[slender fulcrum]

Xebec is the reincarnation of some evil dude of the void century that made joy boy fail whatever he was doing. And now its will passed in BB

[tepid coral]

#manga

[faint crater]

Also does dragon have a df

[tepid coral]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using #manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description.

[tepid coral]

Pls use #manga or #also-manga for casual convo like these

[cyan berry]

absolutely not

also this isnt how this channel works

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using #manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description.

[cyan berry]

only post serious theories you've spent some effort making

[slender fulcrum]

(Delete after reading : I propose something. Why not using threads to discuss a theories and debate about it to not flood the main channel? )

[pure raven]

Anyways, if anyone has any idea or theory about haki natures and their effect to the surrounding. For example, Ace was able to stop drum island from snowing which Dalton deemed impossible. Shanks stated in the novel that he had fiery haki or will or smt along the lines. Shanks being able to change the weather based upon his mood when meeting Mihawk it went from cloudy to very sunny when he transitioned from the hangover to being happy over Luffy setting sail.

[carmine sable]

I truly believe that the “Luffy being possessed by Joyboy” theory cannot be it. It would go against everything Op is about; freedom, freewill, doing as you please, etc. Although, Jb unlocking his will as the Df awakens in Luffy does makes sense because Oda always talked about inherited wills from generation through generation. I believe that a Df can also detain the previous user’s will if it is strong enough. I.e Ace with the mera mera no mi, Sabo does the exact same attacks as Ace, and also it feels like he’s talking to him sometimes, etc.

[tulip hatch]

luffy wont be possessed by joyboy the person persay but his ideals instead

[pure raven]

Well said, what point would it be to seek the history of the Ancient Kingdom and the One Piece if luffy will be the original joy boy.

[tulip hatch]

it is important to note we still do not know how devil fruits work and the idea that will is passed on through the fruits isnt impossible. It could be possible that joyboy originally had luffy's current devil fruit which we are learning right now that it is not rubber

That makes it possible that luffy would "be" the new joyboy without sacrificing any of the freedoms he wants

[autumn mulch]

I believe Joyboy is a title of a shared will, and Zunesha saying that Joyboy returned is basically saying his will and energy has reawakened

[carmine sable]

I agree. But the whole prophetic child thing kind of irks my soul, as it reminds me too much of other popular anime endings. I feel like, yes, a person was waited to bring freedom, but it could’ve been any member of the D. Clan. But they also needed the Df Luffy currently has. As if basically Luffy being a D. is an lock and the Df is the key to awake Jb. I’m saying this because anyone could’ve eaten the fruit, but not everyone could’ve awaken it. I feel like this would sound a better than Luffy just being in the prophecy. It goes against the freedom, against everything previous.

[midnight elbow]

I think Joyboy is the devil inside the Gum Gum Fruit. I think the devils inside all the fruits are from past users

[autumn mulch]

i think the evil dude would be Imu, he seems to have a connection with the erasion of the void century

[midnight elbow]

Since luffy awakened the fruit zunisha sensed Joyboy in Luffy

[autumn mulch]

i think that the will of the previous user or atleast a few of their mannerisms are passed down through fruits

like whitebeard's move being done through BB even though BB does not have any of WB's will

[hot heart]

yh, users of devil fruits with powerful wills, leave a part of their will with a fruit. Later users can be influenced by these wills, and since Joyboy had a crazy powerful will, he can 'take over' Luffys body a little.

[carmine sable]

I believe only the strong willed previous users can give some of there will and mannerism to the new user. I.e Ace-Sabo, but also Enel and his previous user who went to the moon because of a Dream. And even Luffy, who became way more happy after eating the DF.

[tulip hatch]

the main problem currently for me is figuring out how JoyBoy is related to the D. thing. Are they all ancestors of JoyBoy or is he even related to D. at all?

[hot heart]

Sabo has lines where he says he can feel Ace's will when he got Ace's fruit

[autumn mulch]

D is just an indication of a will, there are many species who have the D

[tulip hatch]

species?

[autumn mulch]

giants have the will of D too

[hot elbow]

no one ever asks but how does one get a D

[autumn mulch]

oh yea theyre called races in OP right

[autumn mulch]

probably hereditary, as seen through Luffys family

[carmine sable]

I truly believe that the D. Is basically beings that are strong willed, but also believe in one dream; Freedom. Every single D. Member, in a sense, wanted freedom. Even if it was true liberation, or conquering or to free the “stories of the past” it always had a connection to FREEDOM. Any will of D member could have the possibility to unlock the Joyboy title, but only if they had the Df luffy has also. I truly believe the DF and the Will of D has a connection and both of these attributes together unlocks Joyboy’s will, thus Jb’s Title.

[tulip hatch]

you are correct I forgot about the giant in Robin's backstory

[autumn mulch]

yea, he said his whole family has that

[hot elbow]

so any child of a D is a D

[tulip hatch]

I agree it makes sense especially with how the world government leaders were talking about the devil fruit in the most recent chapter

[sterile granite]

Yeah seems so

[hot elbow]

so its hereditary but not connected to race as we know Saul was a D. they were just descendants of a "clan" what that clan did/stood for is unknown but we know it included giants and humans at the least.

[sterile granite]

Yo oda said he considers the eyepatch as his own personal biggest representation of piracy and that's why he hasn't given anybody it.

I'm starting to think rocks might have had an eyepatch

[sterile granite]

Hold out on the silouhette please.

So oda Is just gonna miss the chance to give a top tier pirate an eye patch

[sharp anvil]

I'd like to add that if this was in fact JoyBoy it would go against Oda's way of writing. We would have an influx of uneeded information that could have been used for wonder. This section would be dead that's for sure.

[hot elbow]

luffy isnt possessed by joyboy

[sharp anvil]

And don't be saying that^ I'm saying he isn't. I'm on your side

[autumn mulch]

awakened zoan?

[hot elbow]

and im agreeing with you

[carmine sable]

My theory is Gold D. Roger knew that something was missing and thus why he was “too early”. He wanted Shanks to steal the “forgotten fruit” to give it to the next generation, probably to his son Ace. But Luffy accidentally ate the Df, and Shanks could’ve gotten it back as Luffy could’ve died by the shark, but Shanks bet on the kid because of how he sounded like Roger, and sacrificed his arm because he disobeyed what Roger asked or something. He betted on Luffy.

[sterile granite]

I think that kaidou is gonna take luffys left eye

And the skulls left eye will cave in at the exact same time he loses his

[hot heart]

wow the idea that Shanks could have let Luffy die and gotten the fruit adds an extra dimension to it all actually

[sharp anvil]

I actually love the theory of how Shanks stopped Kaido. Explaining that JoyBoy isn't Ace and that he would bet his life on it.

[hot elbow]

i think joyboy is just a title or concept, not the name of a guy.

[sharp anvil]

THIS^

[hot heart]

yh there's probably some wordplay that joyboy can be translated into, OR joyboy was a title given to the first one

[tulip hatch]

Joyboy had to initially be a person, most likely the ruler of the ancient kingdom

[sharp anvil]

I 100% agree. Nika and JoyBoy seem to be the title of the one who liberates. The reason being the Fishman have a different title for him.

[hot elbow]

why

[sharp anvil]

Noland also adds to it a bit being a title

[tulip hatch]

JoyBoy in fishman arc was talked about as an actual person who missed his promise

[hot elbow]

also roger's stateent of "oh i wish i was born in the same era as you joyboy" is ambigious

[carmine sable]

Exactly. I truly believe that Shanks, at that state of the story, could’ve definitely saved luffy and dodged the shark. But he decided to lose his arm in the process as the saying “I could bet my hand on it”. He bet his arm that Luffy would be what the world been waiting.

[hot elbow]

did he mean a previous joyboy or the joyboy who was foretold to come to wano (luffy) and the one the roger pirates claimed to be too early for

[sharp anvil]

I do think there is reason to believe someone had to be named JoyBoy first

[hot elbow]

a person with the title of joyboy but not necessarily THE joyboy

[sharp anvil]

It may be a title left over from the Void Century

[hot heart]

i think joyboy was a nickname given to the first one, and it stuck as a title

[carmine sable]

Joyboy is a title given to the liberator that would always be smiling and bring happiness around him. Joyboy was what they called him, not truly his name. Joyboy is a title given to him.

Nika is the exact same thing, a title. It is not a name. Nika means grin, smile, and was also given to a liberator who always smiled and bring happiness. Joyboy and Nika was the same person, different title. As example, you would call a christian’s savior God, or Yaweh, etc.

[hot heart]

lot of evidence suggests he was probably a freer of slaves and whatnot, so he was called 'joyboy' cus he was able to bring joy to the slaves

[hot elbow]

joyboy made a promise to teh fishmen 900 years ago but the poneglyphs were only invented 800 years ago so his letter of apology was inscribed 100 years later

[dim harness]

spoilers today? saw tcb scans recommending to not read spoilers this week , is it that good?

[sharp anvil]

I do think Nika has the possibility of being a last name

And they were the first joyboy

[tulip hatch]

There is too much talk about inherited will for JoyBoy to not have existed. He had to have been a person in the beginning of the story. He was written about in history as literally all older pirates know about him. He had to have initially been a person who's inherited will was passed into the devil fruit. That explains the elephant who mentions JoyBoy's return as well as countless mentions of sea kings mentioning luffy as the one they were waiting for.

[hot elbow]

some people even think fisher tiger was a joyboy, he did free slaves and has teh sun pirates connection.

[gritty sigil]

The problem is with kaido recovery even if alliance manage to defeat him

[gritty sigil]

Gorlsei though it was ace

[carmine sable]

Yea clearly Joyboy existed, but the name Joyboy is a title not his true name. I agree with you tho

[hot elbow]

mousse from 400 years ago mentions the sun god, and otohime had several connections to the sun. and elbaf celebrated a "winter solstice festival" which represented the death and rebirth of the sun

[sharp anvil]

I think that fisher tiger at least knew something more based on the sun tattoos to cover slave tattoos.

[tulip hatch]

Maybe his true name had D. in it, that could explain many mysteries

[hot elbow]

there's clearly plenty of references throughout known historical groups to the sun and its harder to believe that is due to one single guy rather than several joymen who carried the torch of sun god nika/joyboy

[hot elbow]

yes i'm not disputing that A joyboy existed just to be clear. just saying that i get the impression that several joyboys have existed throughout history.

clearly zunesha had some friendship with A joyboy, was he the first joyboy? was he the only joyboy? that's the curious part and not quite clear from what we know

[sharp anvil]

Zunesha was his horse and Luffy is about to get gigantic and swing the sword on Onigashima

[carmine sable]

Were they truly Joyboys, or candidate? Candidate would make more sense, as like you said, Tiger wanted to be the liberator, the Joyboy. And they also believed Ace had the capacity to be Joyboy too, and obviously Roger could’ve been it too. I feel like there’s candidates but they are not all Joyboys

[tulip hatch]

Maybe that is the reason that Roger laughed when he reached the final island. It could've been something that was waiting for the true JoyBoy

[hot heart]

maybe different levels of inheritors of wills. the ones that inherit everything are considered a return of Joyboy

like Ace/Roger/Fisher all have aspects of a Joyboy, but they also lack. Luffy is way more smiley as a simple example.

[hot elbow]

hard to say. and it begs teh question what makes a candidate vs a joyboy. because presumably the joyboy we have heard the most about failed in his mission, so would he too have been a candidate?

[carmine sable]

Exactly, I feel like every D. Members couldve been Jb title’s candidates. And a lot of other beings could’ve been Jb. But they werent because they “missed something”. Example Tiger did liberate in a sense but himself realized he couldn’t be Joyboy because of his anger, etc.

[hot elbow]

based on what? what is the connection with D and Joyboy? afaik there isn't any real link

Law is a D and he is nothing like what we know of other Joyboys for instance, same with Garp or Ace's mom

[tulip hatch]

People with D. are liberators, there are many examples of feats they did freeing something. JoyBoy is known as the ultimate liberator

[hot elbow]

is that quoted?

what has Teach, Garp, Portgas, or Trafalgar, Saul or Rocks liberated?

[carmine sable]

Because every D. members detains a similarly, which is the fact that they all want “freedom” in a sense. Every members wants freedom, as it can be true liberation, through conquering or through freeing the truth of the forgotten past. They also all have strong will and could put their lives where they believe. It can be commonly seen through all D. Members.

[hot elbow]

this sounds like headcanon

[foggy iris]

He said that we're going to see the eyepatch pirate when we're near the end. My bet its that is going to be Teach the one wearing the eyepatch

[hot heart]

There is a light and a dark side to freedom that has been highlighted by Oda. Luffy is the light, Blackbeard is the dark. The dark is where people conquer like billet said for example.

[hot elbow]

how is conquering freedom

[carmine sable]

It’s not really headcanon as I’m saying thing while looking through what I saw in the manga. It’s a theoretical chat, also.

[hot heart]

true freedom means you can do whatever you want. conquering /being cruel etc = a free choice.

[hot elbow]

well its fine to make theories i'm just asking what from the manga supports what you're saying which i don't think there is any. some theories are just headcanon while others rae rooted in some evidence

[hot heart]

defo agree that the D's all want freedom. the good and the bad side

[carmine sable]

And also to add, if you conquer everything, you are undeniably the freest man on earth, logically. It still connects to freedom. Oda had always put emphasis into freedom and freewill, even with Joyboy

[hot elbow]

almost every characetr in one piece wants to do what they want that's quite the stretch. is Sanji a D because he's searching for the all blue? is zoro because he's trying to be the goat swordsman?

the celestial dragons want freedom because they are doing what they want? aka enslaving people? that logic is quite the leap to me

[hot heart]

some people want themselves and everyone around them to be free, some people prioritize themselves only. luffy is the former, blackbeard is the latter

rocks was almost certainly the latter too

[carmine sable]

Roger became the freest man, Luffy wants to be the freest man, BB wants to conquer everything and believes it (freedom), Law wants to free the truth of the past, etc.

Freedom is clearly a top ethical and moral point of One Piece. Oda always spoke about freedom in his book, through slavery and liberation, and the humans believing and dreaming freedom

[hot elbow]

Garp, Portgas,

saying Oda talks about freedom is not the same as saying that's evidence that the D clan = freedom searching individuals

[carmine sable]

Garp clearly cares highly about his freedom and what he believes in as he never accepted to become admiral and a puppet of the Marines even if he joined their ranks to protect. He always done what he wanted to do, even if it was against the grain. He still believed highly in freedom. He values freedom.

[slender fulcrum]

I'm not sure its that one sided, and that the ZG is the evil one

[hot elbow]

again you can bend over backwards to explain away anyone's actions as being "freedom" associated. but how does being Vice Admiral for an oppressive org like the marines make Garp freedom minded. or protecting the interests of literally slave owners i the Celestial Dragons.

Rocks is a D and his goal was literally to be king of the world. that's the antithesis to freedom by my interpretation. you're interpreting it far more broadly in just saying htat anyone who does what they want is freedom minded which would again apply to celestial dragons, or Sanji or any number of characters in the series.

also just a reminder this is the initial comment i pushed back on you're moving the goalposts a bit by saying Garp is a liberator because he chose not to be an admiral

[carmine sable]

You have to see it in the other side of the coin in a sense. Being the pirate king makes so the freest man of the world right. Wouldn’t being the King of the world give make you the freest man also? It’s like the other guy say, freedom can be seen in different way, as someone can believe in freeing everything (liberator) or only themselves in different way (conquering is a way). It all connects to freedom in a sense.

[hot elbow]

Garp, Rocks, Law, Portgas, Saul, Garp, Teach that's 7/10 known Ds and none of them we have much of an indication care much about being "liberators" a la Joyboy/Nika freeer of slaves. Roger, Luffy and Dragon are yes.

[hot elbow]

again that's a broad interpretation of freeedom you could apply to anyone since "freedom" in that sense is highly subjective.

[carmine sable]

Thats never what i claimed stills you talking about Fewtr 😅

[hot heart]

The marines have a good side and a dark side bro

Garp could do a lot for peoples freedom by working with the marines, and probably was enthusiastic when he was young. he prob only realised things were way more curropt when he got older

[hot elbow]

you claim that D clan is sassociated with Joyboy because they all want freedom. but Freedom as it relates to Joyboy/Nika is a very specific type of freedom, being the perosn who frees slaves and liberates people. what you're describing is nothing the same you're just loosely connecting anyone who wants to do their own thing as being freedom and therefore D = Joyboy. which is what im pushing back on

[hot elbow]

so Garp, by your admission, realizes the Marine are corrupt and propping up a literal slave owner class but he continues to use his vast strength to CONTINUE to do this for the rest of his life even when his own son is executed in front of him. and that makes him a liberator?

[hot heart]

lol you're being too absolutist. a policeman does a lot of good, even though the politicians are curropt. should a policeman stop trying to save and help the common people, just because of the politicians??

[hot elbow]

that's a poor analogy. a better one is that there is a police man. Let's call him Monty G. Larp. And he is one of the most powerful men in all of the world. he finds out that the govt he works for is enslaving people and then about to execute his son.

i am saying that person is not driven by "freedom", nor is he a liberator and you are saying that he is because he turned down a promotion to Captain of the police, choosing to instead stay as Vice Captain.

[glass drift]

Kaido solos

[tulip hatch]

@hot elbow Freedom is literally one of the main topics of One Piece. People either seek it by becoming the strongest or limiting others freedom. What I meant was people with D. are related to freedom, either seeking it in different ways or stopping it.

[hot heart]

i wasn't the one who used the word liberator. i prefer the word freedom. and you duno everything about the story bro.

there's some evidence that Garp might be a member of sword, or whatever it was called. which is a group in the navy that works against the celestial dragons

[tulip hatch]

Liberator is also just one part of the main focus of freedom,

[hot elbow]

but how does taht differentiate D clan people from non-D clan

[hot heart]

sometimes the only way to prevent a organisation from doing bad, is to remain in it, and try and change it from inside

[modest skiff]

Luffy addressed this question himself. Being a ruler would mean less freedom. Absolute freedom only happens when you aren’t ruling and also are not ruled

[hot elbow]

what evidence is there that Garp is in SWORD?

[tulip hatch]

The people with D. are on the extreme cases of freedom. Seeking absolute freedom for themselves by good or bad, (luffy and blackbeard for example). Also freedom is probably not the only reason for D. it just seems like an important aspect

[hot elbow]

how did that work for Saul and Garp?

[buoyant walrus]

Gomu Gomu no mi isnt the real devil fruit name

[hot elbow]

before you said that they are liberators, so this is a different point.

[carmine sable]

What I claimed is that any holder of D. have a relation to freedom itself and also all detains a strong faith on themselves or their own dreams. I theorized through that that they could’ve all acquire the “Joyboy” title but were “missing something”. As their will to freedom is highly valuable, but their goals, or abilities are the missing part. I’m theorizing this through Roger’s own words, believing himself that he was too early. We could come to a conclusion that it comes from time, or purely from him missing something. This is why I was against your theory of having multiple Joyboys throughout the generations, but saying that there most definitely were candidates instead.

[tulip hatch]

yes I know liberator was probably the wrong word to use there

[glass drift]

So can Luffy just bounce his heart back like how enel did his?

[hot elbow]

gotcha fair enough

[pure raven]

Yasopp will come to wano

[modest skiff]

This sounds fair enough. Hard to say, but sounds reasonable

[hot heart]

well it's definitely the case that sword exists. it's too early to talk about exacts since Oda has only trickled info regarding sword. it's clear some higher ups in the navy are part of it. my point was, you duno that Garp isn't a member, so you shouldn't conclude that he doesn't value freedom based on the little we know about him in the story

[modest skiff]

!theories @pure raven

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using #manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description.

[hot elbow]

Relation to freedom + strong faith in dreams is a trait that many non-D people have in the series though. neither of these have been shown to be a strictly D thing in OP.

[hot elbow]

yes Sword exists but you said there's evidence that Garp is in SWORD. i'm just curious what evidence there is of that you were referencing.

sure there's LOTS we all dont' know about one piece but i'm discussing the things we do know, not headcanon

[hot heart]

dude you are saying absolutist things so that means your suggestion that Garp doesn't value freedom is your own headcanon lol

[hot elbow]

so me referencing the story is head canon absolutist and you suggesting there is evidence that Garp is in sword when there is none AFAIK is what exactly?

[drowsy tartan]

Will of d is will of donkey

[hot elbow]

if it turns out Garp is in sword and we learn more about what SWORD is i will revise my opinion based on that evidence. but you're saying that there IS evidence he is in sword and after being asked three times you refuse to provide that evidence.

[hot heart]

i cba to respond anymore. you're one of those dudes that care about being seen as right rather than considering the possibilities. like we're just suggesting X, you want confirmation when the story isn't even over yet lmao

[carmine sable]

Because thats a strong theme in One piece itself. All D. Members were seen to have strong faith and a high value to freedom, but also holds the sense of wills being passed through.

Whitebeard knew the true meaning of D. Because of Roger, and claimed in marineford that killing someone with the D. would only kill their body but not their Will, as their “will” will be inherited by someone as the flame cannnot extinguish. I believe these three components are what makes you a D. and they all connect to what Joyboy was in a sense:

Freedom, Strong will and will inheritance. There’s clearly a pattern.

This is why i said that multiple Joyboy’s was wrong, but candidates made sense. I truly believe that every D. Member could’ve been candidate, but were “too early” or “missed something.” I.e, if i can theorize, Luffy’s DF? Or the will of absolute freedom? Etc.

[amber oar]

"considering possibilities" is a moot statement, I can consider the possibility that tama becomes a werewolf and bites everyone, and then everyone is a werewolf... that's not a theory however.

[hot elbow]

^^^^

[buoyant walrus]

Luffy Doesnt own the gomu gomu no mi And might be using a different fruit because of the properties that oddly look like mochi i predict that it might be resin because of the colors in the last panel (colorized one) it might also be the same reason as why they feared the gomu gomu no mi it will probably be a special paramecia devil fruit when zunesha said the joy boy has returned he might mean the previous owners of the fruit itself i for one predict that the joy boy zunesha is talking about might be the sun god

[hot elbow]

it seems like you're just trying to wriggle out of supporting your statement that "there is evidence Garp is in sword" by hurling ad hominem and moving goalposts or throwing tantrums and saying "i cba to respond anymore" rather than just acknowledging that this wasn't correct. so its funny you're saying I'M the one who "needs go be seen as right." while you refuse to acknowledge when you are not. but no worries carry on with your day.

[hot heart]

you can only arrive at a theory after a lot of discussion and analysis. didn't realize this channel was only about 99.999% accurate theories with 50 min youtube videos sorry

[amber oar]

no, those are even worse

[hot elbow]

again you're just wriggling. YOU made the statement "there is evience that garp is in sword" so support your claim or just say that you were wrong it isn't hard.

[hot heart]

you can conclude that there is a box in a room, when you see a shadow. if you want conclusive proof, then I'm struggling to see why you read one piece when Oda is all about foreshadowing

[hot elbow]

exactly. so where is the box that made you conclue garp is in sword?? stop going around in circles, show me the box.

[carmine sable]

@hot elbow (check this out btw. what you think?)

[carmine sable]

^

[hot elbow]

i saw but i have a meeting in 15min and can't respond fully rn can i get back to it afterwards 🙂

[hot heart]

it's clear SWORD exists and there's a lot of higher ups in sword. Saul was obvious. X Drake/Coby. This shows higher ups are involved. I struggle to see how Garp couldn't be IF someone like Coby is. It's a decent probability given the strong connection between the two

[carmine sable]

Np haha!

[hot heart]

if you want more, you might as well not discuss any one piece theory since so many things are not confirmed yet by Oda and have just been dripped by Oda

to me you'd have to prove to me why Garp couldn't be at this point, since it seems way more likely that he is. since it's well documented that he agrees with a lot of SWORD's views

there's hints that even Aokiji is infiltrating the Blackbeard pirates since it's suggested Sword have a tendency to send infiltrators to 'dangerous' crews. if even Aojiki could be involved, how could Garp not be ?? Garp is the kinda of character a lot of the ones who disagree with the curroption in the navy could unite around too.

[carmine sable]

To go through what y’all are talking about (which is not even about theory anymore lol) we can all bring our own ideas, and if they are based off a fact, it’s a theory. OP isn’t done, so any idea cannot be truly factual until the story is done. Saying someone’s theory is headcanon is only if it has zero components connecting to the story in any possible sense. I’m not saying one of y’all is right or wrong, but let’s just clarify that.

And also, Garp definitely values freedom.

[amber oar]

people assume a lot of stuff about SWORD, that they're a secret rebel group, that Garp is there, that Kuzan is there, etc.

For starters SWORD is an official unit, recognized by the Navy. That immediately clashes with the notion that it's a rebel group. They're part of the Navy, period.

Garp intended to resign and was begged to stay as a tutor. Garp resigning clashes with him having a group trying to opposite the Navy from the inside.

Being part of the Navy immediately discards Kuzan as a member. He's going his own way and openly states he realized he doesn't need to be part of it to do stuff.

Now what is probably true about SWORD, and what we can theorize from it:

There's a strong hint that they answer directly to Sakazuki. Drake breaks the news of Kaido and Big Mom's alliance to Koby, next we know Sakazuki is informed and passing the memo to people below him. While we are at it, Sakazuki breaking the news to Issho, and not the opposite, also discards Issho as a SWORD member.

There are two known members, and one of them is a covert agent inside a pirate crew. There's a chance SWORD spies on pirates. Which also opens the chance of Corazón being a past member.

Both Drake and Koby share another thing in common: They spent their teenage years in a pirate crew, against their will. Which suggests SWORD recruits marines formely forced into piracy. This could have a purpose. Knowing pirates from the inside? Sending knowledgeable people to spy on pirates?

When you account for all of those things, the most likely possibility is that SWORD is simply a special unit dedicated to gather intel from pirates.

At best I may concede that SWORD members have a different outlook from pirates after having interacted with them for long periods, which may affect their view on the Navy or the WG. That's an ocean of difference with a group explictly built to oppose the system.

[abstract pond]

Some parts I don't agree with.
It's X-Drake official member of the marines? Did Kizaru know when he kicked the shit out of him?
How official and recognized it is really? Do we know? As far as we know Kuzan could be a member of SWORD just like X-Drake is.

[cyan berry]

yes

[hot heart]

IF you are right that the group is recognized by the Navy then it's much less likely I'm right about the whole rebel group stuff. I can't remember much regarding how 'official' the group is since Oda just occasionally drips regarding them. Would have to look more into or just wait and see until Oda expands on them. Either way, I don't care that much, my main position was just that Garp still cares about freedom to an extent. We know too little about him to go to the extreme of saying he doesn't since that's a very grey thing, not black/white.

[sterile granite]

I have a theory about sword check it out

[amber oar]

Yes.

[cyan berry]

Drake was always a marine, Kizaru probably knew but he probably couldnt let it show because it would give away the secret, so he just kicked the shit out of Drake

[sterile granite]

Kizaru definitely did not know lmao

[amber oar]

Kizaru drops a line about "continuing your research"

[hot elbow]

X Drake being captain is pretty big evidence that Garp is nota. part of sword since why would Garp take orders from X Drake lmfao

[sterile granite]

That's what it means to be deep cover.
Akainus whole philosophy about pirates being evil looks clownlike.

With sword sending marines to become heinous pirates

Theres no way akainu knows Drake is a marine

[foggy gulch]

No doubt that the marine will have ulterior motives from what the world government has

[open bluff]

I have a feeling luffy's awakening will be like the first time vasto Lorde ichigo was shown just a rage induced beast tearing everything in its path

[sterile granite]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/tihvff/north_pole_arc_theory_part_1/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

[abstract pond]

That doesn't clarify much. Koby was hiding from other marines to talk with him.
There could be other SWORD members that only the leader of SWORD knows about.

[foggy gulch]

I'd get behind mindless Luffy

[sterile granite]

Aokiji and law working together

[amber oar]

The intel can't be broken to random low ranked marines without passing for the highest authority first. Can you imagine if Koby talked out loud about the Emperor alliance in front of them?

Moreover he can't fully trust there aren't other pirate crews spying on them

[open bluff]

Would also be a cool way to introduce scopper into the series to train luffy to control his awakening

[foggy gulch]

Possible. After this arc law might start going for Blackbeard directly

[amber oar]

Another thing to point out - Drake calls out CP0 on their deals with Kaido. From his POV is the CP0 agents the ones breaking the law. If he was part of a rebel group he wouldn't give any fucks, or he'd be scared about being caught

[abstract pond]

A rebel group inside the navy doesn't mean they are anti navy. They can still be working for the navy.

[foggy gulch]

Luffy will suffer huge backlash from this fight so... Luffy and us will get some information about awakening

[sterile granite]

Theory about sword and aegis. They were created by the same person.

The reason both cipher pol and the marines use the rokushiki technique is because one person passed it down through both groups.

Oda will visually show the person who controlled sword and aegis via them holding a gladius and aegis

[amber oar]

then they're rebelling against exactly what, the WG? Because when Drake confronts CP0 he's still in his own view acting on the WG's behalf.

[abstract pond]

They could be rebelling about the way the WG leads the navy yes.

[pure raven]

that is indeed a possibility