manga-theories

[sand sail]

Nope, it is a hard maybe, to say otherwise is outright just jumping the gun to say you were right about it. And it is indeed a maybe, I can't say it's wrong, but we are absolutely going to say it's not confirmed right yet, that's just silly

Oda making a completely inconsistent drawing happening doesn't mean anything can be a mistake, that's a fallacy

This one thing that isn't even consistent in the pages it's presented doesn't suddenly mean we can point to anything and say "maybe it's a mistake!", you know that's a logical fallacy.

[pure raven]

it's confirmed by the panels, just as any other visuals, unless it was a collection of mistakes, which is pointed out by and only by Oda himself - until then it's irrelevant

[sand sail]

It's not confirmed tho, it's just a hard maybe still

Leaning to it, you could even say. Confirmed, no.

[pure raven]

your attempt at a counter is the possibility of a mistake

so, again, dismissed

[sand sail]

No, this isn't countering the theory, it's telling you not to call it completely right with literally no confirmation

I haven't said you're wrong about the actual theory at all here

[pure raven]

at a counter to it being completely right

[sand sail]

You even have a "partially right but still waiting" symbol, wtf stoop?

[pure raven]

yeah right now the theory is completely right tho

[sand sail]

You know where that should be, cut it out

[pure raven]

it would be partially right if we didn't get the giant hybrid, for example

[sand sail]

I'm gonna step away from this, it's just silly lol. Hope the theory works out for you, but "confirmed" is just wrong here

[pure raven]

it's a "completely right" symbol, and the theory is completely right until Oda says "it's a mistake, bro"

it's also not a closed topic, as it's ongoing

[rotund grail]

are you willing to acknowledge it could be a mistake?

[pure raven]

are you asking as a "I don't want to read all that discussion" or a "I didn't understand your position"?

Of course it could be a mistake, but that's going into the meta of manga, it's going outside what the story shows us. Anything that is new can be a mistake, but it's only a mistake if Oda tells us it's a mistake, anything else is in the manga and we see the manga as canon. The manga is the "canon until proven a mistake".

So going into the "this could be a mistake" argument is not valuable. Something like this can only be considered a mistake AFTER Oda tells us it's a mistake. It's confirmed until then.

[rotund grail]

i read the discussion

[iron lion]

I'm a little unsure about using the art that closely. I don't mean to be dismissive, but the Raid on Onigashima art seems a bit messier than One Piece usually is. Though it may just be the style changing

[muted ember]

I thought the theory was pretty bad too

[sand sail]

Ay, don't be toxic, the theory is fine.

[rotund grail]

I think the whole situation is akin to how Zoro hurting king with the initial purgatory onigiri has retroactively become a "mistake", but was never fixed or addressed by oda.

Or something to that degree.

[muted ember]

The first 4 pictures all look the same

[rotund grail]

If you're willing to accept that zoro actually did hurt king there, that is. That much is still up to contention

[pure raven]

The Kaidou with sharper teeth could be a mistake - it wasn't corrected in the volume, no statement made on this.
The Kaidou looking like a giant dragon hybrid could be a mistake - no reason to suspect this until shown that it is a mistake.
Zeus being outside the Clima Tact could be a mistake
Law cutting fire without Room could be a mistake - etc etc.

My position is that the manga is canon, it confirms things even if with visuals, and only AFTER Oda tells us it's a mistake can we consider it a mistake.

[muted ember]

It's just different expressions

[pure raven]

what pictures?

[sinful helm]

robin's face in wano is seriouslly disturbing so yea some pages are made just for fun

and no need too take them too seriously

[rotund grail]

right but even if we're taking what the manga says as fact its still just a theory, what we see is still subject to human error.

that's not to say the theory is wrong, its to say that the contention alone is enough to say it is not confirmed.

[pure raven]

yeah I can be on drugs and actually see Big Mom riding Kaidou this chapter, how is this valuable?

[sinful helm]

its just oda being oda having fun it can mean something or it can mean nothing until he says it means its better too take ti with a grain of salt

[rotund grail]

what? no. I was talking about oda potentially making a mistake there

i can see how that was confusing, my bad.

[pure raven]

yeah potential for mistakes is a meta reason to dismiss the manga, it's not valuable until addressed

if Luffy goes "wow Kaidou, you only use those exact 3 forms every time, don't you have some diversity", then the previous visuals have been confirmed mistakes - until then, the manga is showing something that is canon and correct

the possibility for mistake, unless for reality breaking things (Nami having two left hands example), is not valuable when discussing theories about new things in the story, because the possibility for mistakes transcends what the story is giving us

[rotund grail]

that is true, but I'm not calling your theory incorrect, i'm saying it's not confirmed.

you're looking at the potential for your theory to be correct, binking on the one argument and calling it confirmed when there is no confirmation

[pure raven]

it is confirmed by the visuals we have, the possibility for a mistake there transcends what the manga has shown

[rotund grail]

it COULD be correct yes

[pure raven]

it is correct, it's literally an analysis on the panels now

the spectrum is correct
the giant dragon hybrid is correct

• if it is addressed as a mistake, it's a mistake, therefore the "correct"s there are removed. For now they stay

or if there's a new argument that hasn't been shown

the fact it's ongoing is why I haven't added the door emote

there's volatility and I agree with that, I just disagree that that has any value before the meta statement is made or implied (by having the manga saying something that contradicts the visuals)

[muted ember]

Alright I looked at the panel and it could be Oda messing with sizes but Kaido seems smaller than his full dragon form when he first bites Luffy. Like his heads not big enough to swallow Luffy whole, but by the time he shoots the Boro Breath he makes Luffy look small like it should be

[pure raven]

sizes aren't even the argument there

but yeah they can be for sure

[muted ember]

U said he's giant here in your post?

[pure raven]

yeah he is, look at the dragon body in the background

[muted ember]

He looks bigger as a full dragon, assuming he's not a full dragon there

[pure raven]

these are the differences, independent on size

[pure raven]

yeah, that's in line with what I think about the spectrum

I will add a "for now" on my green and skull ones lmao, I think there's some confusion here on what I mean by "it's confirmed unless it's a mistake"

[muted ember]

Hmm

[pure raven]

but it is indeed true that the dragon is bigger - and it is indeed true that this hybrid is bigger than the other hybrids, because it has a dragon body in the background

[muted ember]

U might be right

It looks like he transformed his head and lower body but his torso is in hybrid still

[pure raven]

yeah in a way - his hands are kinda ambiguous

here, because I was hiding the hand in that explanation

[muted ember]

Yea i was wrong to dismiss it I apologize for that

[pure raven]

like yeah that's a new hybrid hand

Dragon - image 1
Hybrid - image 2

further proof, I should've used that in the first explanation oopsie

it'd be real hard for this to be a mistake

[pure raven]

no need lmao, this is a theory

[primal cargo]

I like this, always wanted to see more people than just Chopper use more than 3 forms, only precedent I believe was Rob Lucci but it was thanks to Seimei Kikan rather than straight mastery of DF

[upbeat coral]

Has anyone made the theory that the last 3 panels are in future sight?

[pure raven]

and Kaidou using a legit drug like Chopper and Black Maria make this even stronger

[primal cargo]

I'd prefer it if it's not the alcohol and just him being very good at using his powers, maybe that'll be cleared up (or maybe not)

[restive mirage]

I like Kaido's alcohol powerup. It's silly and also explains away why drunk Kaido in Luffy's first encounter seemed so much stronger than rooftop Kaido.

[muted ember]

It could be both like being drunk makes him use his fruit in unorthodox ways

[pure raven]

I disagree with that.

You need to be calm for future sight.

Kaidou ONLY used Future Sight for ONE of his drunk modes - nusubitojougo. TCB translated it as "thieving drunk phase"

So this word, divided by components, means that "thieving drunk" - and Kaidou "steals" Luffy's ability.

BUUUT, the word itself means someone that isn't tipsy after drinking - this is the drunk mode where Kaidou is calm and sober-like, it's the only form where he would use Future Sight.

On the other hand, his crazy mode in the final part of the chapter is the complete opposite

[restive mirage]

Kaido using future sight somewhat confirms that future sight is not a unique usage of haki and that the admirals likely used it in Marineford to avoid haki hits

[slim moat]

Why Admirals though? You could have said others used it previously.

[muted ember]

Yea the only way it made sense to me is that he could only use it in that mode, or else he was really toying w Luffy the whole time

[restive mirage]

Admirals specifically. It was a mystery how they avoided Whitebeard and the commander's hits in Marineford when the manga was at that stage.

[muted ember]

Haki allows u to hit df users but they can still use their powers. I just assume they were fast enough to react and shape around attacks

[restive mirage]

We're getting buildup to Luffy's next big powerup. It needs to be enough to deal with the CP0 boss and Kaido at the same time.

Yeah Tray that could just be it or future sight. No confirmation until admirals return to the stage.

[sand sail]

It wasn't a mystery, multiple logias have done what they did, it wasn't a unique ability. Really, almost every logia in the series has performed that move

Kaido doing it here doesn't confirm anyone else has it, Aokiji didn't actually need it to avoid any hits at Marineford since all he did was get stabbed once, and he was the only one who actually seemed to avoid anything like that

Having said that, future sight was already confirmed not unique to a single person or anything, it's an ability that generally strong people may cultivate

[pure raven]

Kaidou only using FS for one of his drunk modes is cool af for me at least.

Like this: Kaidou can use more hybrid forms while drunk. Maybe because his alcohol is laced with other drugs - Chopper and Maria do this already.

And, INDEPENDENT from that, every drunk mode has its traits, maybe every drunk mode has its fighting capabilities:

🟢Warai Jogo - gets buffed the fuck out
🔴Ochikomi Jogo - ?? useless???
🟡Naki Jogo - uses tail a lot
🔵Okori Jogo - stronger CoC (with CoC coating bursts that make Luffy fly (twice))
🟠Amae Jogo - doesn't feel damage?
🔵Nusubito Jogo - better CoO (access to FS)
🔴Satsuriku Jogo - ???? because he's homicidal??? Speed?? All stats?

🔴 🟠 🟡 🟢 🔵 - level of confidence

which one would have etter CoA

since we have a CoC and a CoO

well but he does have a CoO drunk mode, and that hasn't been his thing either

[edgy viper]

Sorry for interrupting your convo, it felt rather quiet lmao

[pure raven]

oh no I was already typing that and left to do something else lmao

didn't even see you bro, Imma read what you posted

[edgy viper]

I'll delete the posts above, can I have a handful of minutes to post it all?

Then it's nice and organized

[pure raven]

oh shit I was the one interrupting lmao, go ahead

[naive widget]

hay guys I got a wild theory i came up with 2 weeks ago. is it ok to post that stuff here

I want to make sure I'm not breaking the rules or ruining anything for someone

[edgy viper]

Lol it's theory time rn
Go ahead I'll wait with typing out mine

[tepid coral]

Yes it is, shouldn't have any other series reference and should be serious

[naive widget]

I think zoro is dead. I think he will go to the river sticks and when it's his time to depart to the afterlife.....
he is going to get lost, not get on the boat and end up coming back

[primal cargo]

Nice

[naive widget]

to be honest I just want people to talk one piece with who don't feel like I'm ruining the story with theories

my friends are tired of me lol

[edgy viper]

On to the second try. Please prepare your ships and be patient, there's a wave of posts up ahead!

I'd like to present an analysis of Wano Arc that I've been working on. The piece is split into two parts, an analysis of stylistic choices in the context of character development followed by a theory on how the proposed character development may culminate in accordance with the thematic presentation of Wano. Part 2 will be published next week (hopefully).

Credit goes to @primal cargo who discussed a lot of these points with me and contributes greatly to the second part of the analysis.

Part 1: The Hero's Journey & the allure of power: An analysis of character development

Part 2: Isolationism & the politics of power: An analysis of what's behind the looking-glass named „Wano“
[Here will be a link once part 2 is online.]

As this is gonna be a gargantuan post worth a fifth of a bachelor's thesis in literature, I will use a proper structure for both parts to allow for cross-refencing.

Part 1 will be structured as follows:

1.1) The land that isn't: How Oda constrasts Wano and its citizens by ominous use of stylistic devices
1.1.1) Moonwatching and Sandstorms
1.1.2) Summary of the Wano people's character arc

1.2) Brief introduction to „The Hero's Journey“: A playbook older than Zunesha

1.3) The Anti-Mugiwara: Conviction versus Temptation
1.3.1) Zoro, Shusui and Enma
1.3.2) Luffy, freedom and dreams
1.3.3) „The Otoko Fiasco“

1.4) Closing thoughts and outlook

Part 2 will be structured as follows (subject to change upon further work):
2.1) Isolationism and the concept of self-fulfilling prophecies
2.2) What it means for Wano's borders to be opened
2.3) Wano post-Kaido: The case for why Vivi and the Revolutionary Army will arrive

1.1) Wano: the land that isn't

1.1.1) Moonwatching and Sandstorms

As an entree, I would like to direct your attention to the depiction of both the country of Wano and its citizens respectively. For the sake of simplicity I will refer to these citizens as „the Wanoese“ from here on out.

Wano's depiction during Act 1 and 2 is, in a way, unique to One Piece up to this point. This trait, however, isn't immediately accessible to the reader, for it becomes evident only in the absence of a narrative feature: worldbuilding. Worldbuilding is not only absent, at times it is deliberately inhibited by artistic choices. It is primarily two stylistic devices that Oda uses to prevent the reader from properly picturing how Wano looks like.

The first one is camera angles. In contrast to prior arcs, Wano features an abundance of low-angle shots. This stylistic device fits when you want to convey intense emotions: tension, intimidation and fear, but also hope and awe. It is an excellent choice to make the reader feel tiny before a seemingly overwhelming entity. Both the introduction of Kaido and Komurasaki are excellent instances of how to use this angle.
However, if used to depict people having a conversation, frequent use of low-angle shots becomes an immersion breaker. If you wanted to emphasize the conversation, use a (half-)portait. If you wanted to ease verbal tension, take a farther shot. Instead, the amount of low angle shots interrupting conversations is absurd, constantly diverting the reader's attention to the notoriously empty sky. The amount of times this happens in the Flower Capital is truly obscene.

See the panels of some Wanoese „looking up in hope“ at Kozuki castle, the Wanoese „admiring Komurasaki from below“ and Kaido arriving in Okobore for a reference of proper use.
See the panel of the alliance's convo in the ruins of Kuri castle for reference on when not to use low angle shots. The other is an entire page in chapter 951, where in one panel a low angle perspective is paired with a dustcloud, allowing for virtually no depiction of Ebisu. To add insult to injury, the entire page features virtually no background. This page is an embodiment of what I mean by „deliberate absence of worldbuilding“, and pages like this are frequent.

The second device is what is depicted in the panels themselves. While more noticeable in the colored version of the manga, it is also quite recognizable in the BW-version. There is a seemingly sentient sandstorm covering almost the entirety of Wano bar the places the protagonists are at any given time.
Allow me to elaborate. In prior arcs, the default was magnificent, intricate panels of landscapes, places and how they connect. The amount of research and detail Oda put in the panels as well as the maps we were given allowed for a peak level of immersion, which in turn is why One Piece became so popular: Because it feels like we're right there with Luffy and his friends.
In Wano, however, panels like this became extremely scarce to the point you can actually recount them fairly quickly: the entrance to Wano, the Flower Capital, Kuri when the Scabbards see it for the first time in 20 years, Habu Port in Hakumai and that's pretty much it. Instead, the default is panels being obstructed by some enigmatic dust. Prior to Wano, this kafkaesque smokescreen was used, albeit rarely and only to exemplify certain panels, it never obstructed the surroundings.

It gets even more ridiculous, though: The dust is alive.
When Luffy, Zoro and Kiku arrive at Tsuru's place with a poisoned Tama, they obviously just passed through the sandstorm still lingering in the background. In the panels where we actually see them traversing on Komainu, said sandstorm is again in the background. This is nothing short of a miracle: Sandstorms that are conveniently moving to allow a glimpse of the protagonists, but not the surroundings.

From the fact that nobody ever bothers mentioning this phenomenon we can infer that these sandstorms are not a plot device but rather an artistic choice to direct the reader's attention to something that isn't the landscape. The land of Wano, in a sense, is intentionally left a blank canvas. Our attention is instead supposed to focus not on the piece of art but entirely on the artists, that's to say, the characters. Notice how during Act 3, worldbuilding for the most part returns to its former glory. Onigashima's maps and panels are immaculately consistent – probably because we won't be seeing much of it once the raid is over. The land of Wano, on the other hand, will be important once it's liberated from Kaido.

This is also one of the prime reasons why readers feel like stakes in the raid are too low: we don't really have a tangible concept of what we're actually fighting for. This will be of further importance in 2.2) What it means for Wano's borders to be opened.

1.1.2) Summary of the Wano people's character arc

The Wanoese as a whole and individually make up for the meager paneltime their country got by amazing character trajectories. I will summarize the major aspects as briefly as possible:

• Racism, mysoginism and brutality were inherent to Wano way before Kaido arrived. This is evidenced by Kinemon's behaviour towards Nami during Punk Hazard, by Oden having to save Inuarashi, Nekomamushi and Kawamatsu from being burned at the stake, by Kawamatsu's own backstory and finally by undiscriminately persecuting all Kurozumi. In the words of the greatest chad to ever be drawn: „Your fear of the alien only exposes your own ignorance.“ Unbeknownst to the Wanoese, though, their society was linked with the Minks all along. Said Minks now play a pivotal role in the battle against Kaido.

• Wano's caste system is eerily reminiscent of the Celestial Dragon's stranglehold over common folk. This is evidenced by the sumo wrestler Urashima who refers to the other citizens of the Flower Capital as „chattel“ whose lives are in his very hand. His strategy to convince Kiku to become his wife consists of burning her house and killing her family, suggesting that extortion and murder are trivial offenses for a member of the warrior caste. After being imprisoned and enslaved themselves, the Wanoese samurai may have changed their mind about caste systems.

• Their relationship to Kozuki Oden exemplifies their character development the best. At first, they were fearful of the seemingly uncontrolable Oden. He would challenge all their deeply ingrained beliefs by virtue of existence only, thus forcing the Wanoese into demonising him. Dissolving their internal dilemma is a feat they were not yet capable of. When Oden pacified Kuri and was appointed Daimyo, he gained the respect of the Wanoese but not their trust. As Oden himself remarks when he sees his father for the last time: „I have only been made a great man. I have not changed one bit“.

When Orochi and Oden strike their dance-deal, Oden quickly loses the respect of the Wanoese again. After all, for a culture like Wano, respect is deeply rooted in appearance and behaving the „appropriate“ way. Respect is fleeting, for it is granted based upon what you do; trust, however, is permanent, for it is granted based upon who you are. Only during the Legendary Hour would the people of Wano see the true Kozuki Oden, understanding that it is exactly Oden's character, doing what was not appropriate for him to do, that saved them from their early demise. It is here that Oden earned the trust of his people. This trust is permanent, as the spark of rebellion Oden ignited 20 years ago still lives on within the Wanoese. They understood that it ultimately was their own fear of the alien that enabled Orochi to topple the Kozuki.

• All of the Straw Hats entered Wano under a disguise and a fake name. Soon after, Tusu confirms that the locals will easily figure out they're foreigners anyway. From this point onwards, the fake names lose their plot significance and serve as a reminder that each Straw Hat is grappling with a „failed“ version of themselves.

• Finally, there could be an entire analysis for the character arcs of each of the Scabbards. Ashura Doji and Raizo are two of the best characters Oda has ever written, each of them wrestling their very own struggle with the concept of trust (Raizo towards himself, Doji towards others) just perfectly. Every single one of these nine is a unique and authentic character, vibrant to the point where at times it feels like they outshine some of the Mugiwara. Sadly, the fact that we do not know „their“ Wano, that we have but a faint image of what the Scabbards are actually fighting for, makes it hard to really appreciate these characters to their full extent.

1.2) „The Hero's Journey“

This is gonna be a rather brief paragraph. For a comprehensive explanation on what the „Hero's Journey“ is, please refer to the wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero's_journey
Simply put, a lot of heroic tales consist of three parts: Departure, Initiation and Return. If you have any doubts whether One Piece follows this playbook to an extent, just consider that the last portion of the „Departure“ part is literally called „Belly of the Whale“ in literature analysis – does that ring a bell? The East Blue Saga + Reverse Mountain was the Departure, the entirety of the Grand Line saga is the Initiation.
Right now, our friends are at a pivotal point in the Initiation portion, the stage of „Temptation“, preparing them for their hardest challenge yet: the gaze into the abyss, in other words, the trinity of death, atonement and rebirth. To be fit for that task the Mugiwara must be confronted by an alluring entity that serves as a vehicle to reinforce their convictions and dreams.

1.3) The Anti-Mugiwara: Conviction versus Temptation

Let me ask you, what is the opposite of compassion? Is it hatred? Is it spite?
Then again, it's all but human to feel that way towards a loved one – human beings are, by definition, fallible. Luckily for us, no hard feeling is too hard to not be talked (or duked) out. If in doubt, Usopp and Luffy would like to have a word with you.
The opposite of compassion is, in fact, indifference. This distinction is one of the defining factors of the Mugiwara. When they arrive at a twisted place, they care. The Strawhats empathize with all those who are not free, because freedom is not their goal but the way by which they reach their respective goals. Freedom being a prerequisite for happiness is a conviction that is devoid of the necessity to be justified, it is self-evident to the Mugiwara.

This wouldn't be the most important arc yet, however, if this conviction wasn't put to the test. I will use Zoro, Luffy and Robin/Nami to exemplify the Mugiwara's struggle trying to rectify their convictions with their temptations.

1.3.1) Zoro, Shusui and Enma

We will start with Zoro, whose temptation is the most tangible: stronger swords. Zoro's affection and respect for the blades he wields throughout the series is evident. After Enies Lobby, he mourns the breaking of Yubashiri. Yet he doesn't dispose of the sword's remains until he feels like he found a proper place to put it to rest on Thriller Bark. As a pupil of the Shimotsuki Dojo, Zoro further knows that while he must subject a sword to his will to use it properly, in the end it's the sword that chooses the swordsman.

What do we see on Wano, though? Zoro immediately agrees to hand over Shusui to Gyukimaru when the opportunity to get a potential upgrade presents itself. Just minutes before, he told Gyukimaru that he understands his desire to return Shusui to it's rightful grave, but menacingly declines. Zoro's only comment is, literally, that giving away Shusui would be okay if he got a replacement. He yielded Shusui without seeing Enma, let alone wielding it.

In a twist of fate Enma ends up being a „cursed“ blade. One that seems to possess a truly wicked personality, excessively cutting whole pieces of the landscape on its own by draining the wielder's Haki to a lethal degree. Zoro had to overcome the temptation he gave into, realising and reminding himself that a blade is neither good nor evil inherently but whatever it's master makes of it. He further acknowledges that it was Enma who chose him to put his conviction to the test. This realization was necessary for Zoro to unlock CoC and to prepare him for the gaze into the abyss. Whatever that damn reaper is, this is a textbook example for a traversion from the stage of „Temptation“ to the stage of „Death, Atonement and Rebirth“.

1.3.2) Luffy, freedom and dreams

On to discuss Luffy's trajectory. For Luffy, the conviction that's put to the test is his definition of the Pirate King as „freest person on the seas“. For 900 chapters, Luffy refused to rule, conquer or belittle other people's dreams. He is all about empowerment and enabling people to pursue their goals without obstacles, even if Luffy has to remove these obstacles himself. After arriving in Wano, however, Luffy changes noticeably. He shows an unusual amount of aggressiveness, cockiness and willingness to accept collateral damage.

At Kuri Beach, Luffy yoinks one lizard into Hawkins straw-sword while indifferently pummeling the other, just to pacify Tama's baboon with a glare of CoC. It is not in-character for the Luffy we know to hurt animals not directly participating in a fight when there is a less violent option. See the fight between Luffy and Duval/Motobaro for reference on how Luffy usually treats enemy animals. Notice also how similar Luffy's expression is to the one I referenced for Zoro.

Luffy's change becomes obvious during his prolonged vacation at Udon Quarry. When explaining to Hyogoro what becoming the Pirate King means, Luffy states that to become PK he „has to defeat all Yonko“. Wait, hold my beefsteak for a second there. He „has to“? Obviously, he doesn't. He only needs all four Road Poneglyphs to reach Laugh Tale. Roger didn't duke it out with either Big Mom or Kaido, for that matter.

If Luffy „wants“ to defeat all Yonko then be my guest, but succumbing to imperatives like this is to become an unfree person that is driven not by their dream anymore, but by their desire to conquer. Hyogoro himself makes a related remark after Momo shows up at Udon: What the samurai of Wano were lacking before was a dream, something that lied „beyond the battle“. In other words, a reason to fight.

Cockiness is also the reason why Luffy got washed by Kaido in 1014. He fought with the ambition to smack Kaido rather than the ambition to free Wano, that's why „his technique was lacking“. In chapter 1041 this trajectory is starting to conclude when Luffy tells Kaido that he doesn't give a damn about the latter's ambitions because those make other people starve and suffer. With this, Luffy regains the superior motivation to fight and that is what will eventually elevate him over Kaido: Luffy simply fights for the better cause. One of One Piece's core themes is that those who fight for freedom and to protect their loved ones will eventually overpower those who fight to conquer, always. Reaffirming this conviction is an extremely important preparation for finding the One Piece, because Luffy needs his moral compass intact to arrive at what Rayleigh would probably call „the other conclusion“.

1.3.3) The Otoko Fiasco

Finally I want to direct your attention to what I call „the Otoko fiasco“. These absolutely baffling events exemplify the complacency and indifference of a few Mugiwara, especially Nami and Robin. After saving Otoko from getting gobbled up by Orochi she gets dropped off at a brothel. The Strawhats themselves wonder how smart of a move that was, but instead of acting on their worries, Nami and Robin decide to have a day off at the bathhouse. As for Robin, during the brawl in Orochi castle her cover gets blown and she subsequently doubts her ability to save Otoko and Hiyori – that is to say, she doubts others can depend on her.

One of Wano's main themes is making sacrifices. Sometimes, that means that you cannot come to aid your nakama because the plan demands you do something else. This case can be made for why nobody of the crew tried to rescue Luffy from Udon. However, this logic cannot be applied to „the Otoko fiasco“. Making a sacrifice necessarily involves a dilemma, involves making a meaningful choice. Hiyori explains that marvelously in chapter 955, as does Sanji in 931.
So when Nami and Robin decide to spend their day at the bath house instead of checking up on Otoko, they are simply being indifferent towards the potential danger their little friend may be in. Ironically enough, Brook's remark comes true and Orochi did send a manhunter after Otoko. So if it wasn't for Hiyori, Otoko would've been dead by now and the only reason Nami and Robin didn't prevent it was because they felt the need to take a bath.

Eventually, Robin gets rectified when Sanji depends on her to fight Black Maria; Nami gets rectified when she and Usopp successfully protect Tama and when she goes out of her way to save Zeus. Both of them had to earn their powerup by first overcoming the temptation of complacency and giving up agency, reaffirming that other's can depend on them.

A similar argument can be made for all of the Mugiwara, citing different events. There is also additional evidence of Zoro and Luffy acting exceedingly disrespectful. I omitted these examples, because the theory is already way too long as is. The motifs of indifference and self-righteousness will be further inspected in the second part of the analysis, however.

1.4) Closing thoughts and outlook

To briefly answer the question why Oda incorporated all these elements of indifference, complacency and hubris into Wano Arc: to illustrate how damn difficult it is to become powerful without „becoming Kaido“. What I mean by this is that as soon as you become mighty, conquest becomes attractive. Power corrupts, as they say. Kaido couldn't be JoyBoy because he didn't manage to stray true to himself, he faltered and his desire to be free developed into the desire to rule. This will be elaborated on further in the second part of this theory – this is analytical legwork, after all, for next time we'll be getting to the juice that is speculation and interpretation. Until then, safe sailing!

THE END
(for now)

[grave magnet]

guys i have a crazy theory

I just red chapter 1042 and i am 100% positive sure oden is the cp 0 dude

~end of theory // based on his look

[pure raven]

haven't read it, mate went into the 101s of story telling, jeez

[naive widget]

in response to wano castle in 1.1.2 google the franky house and tell me if there is something about it that reminds you of that castle.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fonepiece.fandom.com%2Fwiki%2FFranky_House&psig=AOvVaw1NXRlxTivkM-3oJJk484iF&ust=1646502019535000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAsQjRxqFwoTCNCwtpGArfYCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD

I agree with you on on the elements of racisms in wano and drawing different shots from different angles create different moods there's a lot there for example usually we see the good guys fighting from the right to the enemy in the left in cinema but in attack of the clones (starwars) the clones fought from the left symbolizing there betrayal later in the story.

[naive widget]

thats awesome ^__^ I drought it but really fun food for thought. if its true I owe you a case of beer 😛

[severe wedge]

Will kaido save Luffy?

[grave magnet]

Im telling you its Oden. 😎

[naive widget]

I got a question for you all if you want to think about it. out of all the devil fruits out there the straw hats consist with the

human human
soul soul
rubber rubber
flower flower
elements of the human body, chakras and life. I wonder if this will play a part down the line, just some food for thought

[grave magnet]

and Shanks can conquer time with his haki

[naive widget]

legit. xD sorry I didn't mean to throw shade just wow that would be wild

I got one but I would ruin a lot. idk if its fair.

[severe wedge]

How cp0 used tekkai on Luffy?

[naive widget]

i got a theroy on the void century what it is and all that the D ect

[wooden topaz]

so he doesnt attack luffy right just appear with tekkai

[severe wedge]

I was saw Luffy get hit. Am I see wrong

[grave magnet]

Its Oden.

[severe wedge]

Why u guys saying Oden where is he

[grave magnet]

He whispered him "Its me Oden" so he got distracted and got hit by kaido but for real its Oden

and I know for sure Luffy will lose one of his eyes. trust me.

[naive widget]

do tell. this cp0 said to drake he looked up to him. if your right amazing haki you got there to see the future xDD

[edgy viper]

Sure did, I didn't dare assuming everybody would be familiar with the pattern
And I needed to make the point so part 2 sounds less like the a lunatic doing Tarot lmao

[severe wedge]

And Luffy is logia

[edgy viper]

What similarity are you referring to? The crescent moon?

[naive widget]

I liked your theroy I made sure to read the whole thing. just a lot to take in but I liked it

[grave magnet]

I have intuition. trust me

[grave magnet]

can u send me link? or where to scroll

[naive widget]

in regards to the crescent moon part on Franky house or. link for what exactly 🙂

also want to say I enjoyed how you made your theroy a scollar type text.

[edgy viper]

Much appreciated. Yeah it's long, basically the groundwork for the theory on how Wano ends

[pine delta]

you should post this on reddit! This is amazing!!!

[edgy viper]

I always wondered why they had that moon on their house in the first place, true

[naive widget]

wano feels like a ton of different arks in one piece sampling from each to create a mega ark xD it's pure gol d thought.

I only got into one piece at the whole cake island ark once naruto finished so I am new to the community but have re watched the anime, I just stared my 4th viewing. last month.

[naive widget]

I want to respond to you, send you a link on what exactly

[edgy viper]

Thanks a lot
I don't have a reddit acc tho, maybe I'll make one for this

[naive widget]

just wondering where does one post large theories for reddit. is there a specific group or something

[primal cargo]

Well. And here I thought I was a nerd

[pine delta]

r one piece lol

[naive widget]

thankyou. I'm quiet new to chat groups and computer communication.

[primal cargo]

A living sandstorm man what else are you hiding

It's hard to say much about this post without having read the 2nd part and where this is all going
But holy hell the devotion

[pine delta]

no prob

[primal cargo]

I'm hesitant about the Otoko point, I don't remember Nami or Robin saying that they acted wrong or that they regret being careless. Without that I can't really see this as character development that's "voluntary" by Oda

[pure raven]

MY THEORY COLLECTION PT2

part 1 ||#manga-theories message||

🟠 Tama's fruit #also-manga message

🟡 Devil Fruit Headcanon #manga-theories message

🟠 Kingbaum=Kaidou - incomplete #manga-theories message

🟡 Hakumai=Kurozumi, Shiryu #also-manga message

🟠 Torii Poneglyph #manga-theories message

🟡 Kuma-B #manga-theories message

no part 3 yet

[last sonnet]

Shanks will have Global Observation Haki and Eneru will return from the moon with the Ancient Weapon Uranus.

[tired osprey]

where is tsuki tsuki no mi?

[edgy viper]

That's one of the points I omitted
Nami and Robin both were too late to witness the execution of Yasuie, their group got there just when Toko entered the site and drew Orochi's attention. It's kinda awkward that the feeble citizens of Ebisu got there faster than the Mugiwara when they all started at the same time

[pure raven]

Anyone color the last page of the chapter yet?

[pure raven]

Yup on the reddir

[river marlin]

Do any theories exist about what "Ashura" form that zoro does really is ? I recalled that ashuras were demons/antigods in buddhist and hindu text and that those beings have 3 heads and six arms . I wanted to see if there were any theories regarding this and im new here and went to general tab but people told me i was "powerscaling" whatever that means. I hope this is a apt channel for asking this and that whether any discussion were on this subject? Thank you.

[drowsy gate]

I liked the idea that he can bend space and time...

[modest skiff]

I think its really some sort of demons/spirits that he is summoning to enhance his attacks or augment himself. During Enies Lobby, he uses this attack, which scares the marines. I think this indicates that both Ashura and Enbima Yonezu are not just special effects for the reader. I think in both cases, they are actually there and it is going to be a part of why Zoro is the King of Hell. @vapid minnow

[vapid minnow]

Did you know Ashuras are like Demi Gods, like iirc they’re known to oppose the Heavens and conjure entities from Hell

[tiny elm]

WHAT

[river marlin]

this makes sense . ty

[drowsy gate]

Some people say that he can bend space

[violet ember]

I think it has something to do with the swords too

[odd lichen]

kaidou will winn
luffy will lose
cp0 will be the ruler

[modest skiff]

@odd lichen please don’t use this channel for fight predictions. Use the manga channels for that

[lofty heron]

What devil fruit will zoro get

[sinful bolt]

Kaido flashback
CP0 informs the Five Elders that Luffy is dead, then Kaido kills him for interfering
Luffy stands back up, surprises Kaido
Kaido lets Luffy attack him back in return
Luffy uses 'Supreme Kong Gatling' as his last attack
Kaido goes into 'Sleeping Drunk Phase'

[wanton needle]

Not bad at all lmao

[visual merlin]

as in that knocks out kaido?

if thats what you mean I feel that would be very anticlimactic lol

[tiny elm]

low key like it

but i want kaido dead

[opaque jackal]

Anyone a good theory for me to read?

[modest skiff]

View pins

[mint barn]

I sort of don't want kaido letting luffy hit him or hitting himself. People would start to say it wasn't a proper win or "legit" win and kaido is an emperor.

[visual merlin]

Kaido letting luffy hit him is fine, but him going down from the 1 hit is super anticlimactic

[mint barn]

I wonder how strong the gorosei are. Like are they emperor level?

[modest skiff]

This isn’t a topic for the theories channel. Anything regarding “how strong is someone” goes in manga channel

[mint barn]

Oops sry.

[mint barn]

Goes in what channel?

[modest skiff]

#manga

[fast radish]

next chapter: Kaidou rage, Kaidou vs marine & world government

[zealous patio]

Wait so theories about power scaling go in #manga and not in #manga-theories ?

[fast radish]

@modest skiff remove this guy roles. Theories about power scaling should be in here

[modest skiff]

Sorry, please read the channel description. We ask topics in this channel be serious and with effort. Power scaling is beneath the intention of this channel. Anything regarding match ups or power scaling or “here’s what happens in a fight” isn’t worth having in this channel. Please keep it to #manga or #also-manga

Yes @zealous patio

[fast radish]

All right Im head out of this channel but I tell you that everyone had their own view about the word "serious".

[modest skiff]

While that is true, the definition we will be using is the one decided on by the staff. Thank you for understanding

[mortal field]

Lowkey, might happen

[undone bay]

do you guys think the lanterns the citizens of wano are making will play a major role to the story?

I think they will serve as a really sentimental way to give morale to the raid or luffy

[tough flare]

Are we allowed to talk about chapter 1042 here?

[vapid minnow]

@dry kindle wrong channel

[vapid minnow]

theories only here but #manga #also-manga are the places to discuss

[tough flare]

Oh okay

Cheers boss

Theres a theory I saw on reddit, but the panel is from 1042, I wasnt sure if I was gonna spoil cause its not officially released

But here’s the panel

[vapid minnow]

yeah many people saw this and not many believe it. Definitely seems like a stretch

[tough flare]

Still cool though

But yea it does seem like a stretch

[crude escarp]

I'm 99% sure this image is just a joke

[limpid creek]

lmfaoo

[lean galleon]

Any Information about Dragon 🐉 wife aka luffy mother !!

[half summit]

Has anyone read the newest chapter yet? Is the raid actually gonna fail? 😫

[muted ember]

Yes it is

[tough flare]

I just don’t see luffy losing

After all the build up

[muted ember]

Did u read the latest chapter? He lost

[pure raven]

No bro it won't
We know grorosei are talking about luffy's devil fruit since out of nowhere they gave the orders to kill him while they ignored him during the raid
So most probably oda was hinting at some major developments around luffy's df
He is probably getting an awakening
Since luffy's biggest power is his unwavered will so he'll definitely get back up, the title of the last chapter said that winners need no excuses so even if luffy was distracted he'll get up and we'll get to see a hell of a kaido beatdown
But I believe that luffy will get up and showcase his new power shocking both kaido and cp0 boss after that we see a shocked kaido out of his drunk state and a flashback

[weary tendon]

Yeah and it'll be perfect because cp0 will witness it and immediately tell the five elders

[muted ember]

It wasn't out of nowhere they talked about killing Luffy during the fight before the df came up. And the title was more about the ppl of Wano and the asterisk next to Kaido's victory

Also they been tried to kill Luffy. They sent Kuma to team up w Moriah but he turned it down, then Luffy just happened to be his friends son

[blazing lodge]

The cp0 person has something to do with momo and oden. Maybe a lost memory, momo from the future? 🤷🏻

[halcyon talon]

the memory of oden and momo was kaidos - the cp0 agent distracting luffy so that kaido could knock luffy out reminded kaido of the not so unfamiliar incident where higurashi distracted oden by holding momo hostage, allowing kaido to knock out oden

[zinc walrus]

I do think its a stretch but in Oda’s 2022 message he did say to pay attention to luffy

[stiff otter]

Luffy falls in water and his fifth gear kicks in. He’s so soft nothing can hurt him anymore 🧐🧐

[granite salmon]

his fruit is a mythical zoan devil fruit where he can turn into the monkey king, this explains the fact that he can change length and width because the monkey kings staff can get longer or wider like luffys body, the bullet part is an easy one the monkey kings skin is incredibly resilient which is why luffy has so much "durability" per say, another thing pointing to this is gear fourth is based on not just ordinary animals but predators and the monkey king was the king of beasts. aswell as the fact of the blueprints when they mix luffys devil fruit with a missile it turns into a monkey, this is what i think and so many plot points show this including oda using myths in the story this a very likely outcome. i think luffys bound man form is the cloud that the monkey king uses but instead of an object its his body, another point is luffys stomach has shown to be infinite at times just like the monkey kings gourd bottle, this could also mean that an awakened power of luffys is going to be lightning which is why he also has a resistance to it when he was fighting mr. fake god. another point is the armor suit that the monkey king has and the crown, I'm willing to bet luffy is going to use haki for those, like king haki covering the body and observation haki acting as the crown on luffys head so he can see anyones movements when ever, but its going to be most likely called the crown of true sight or observation haki: true sight like the myth

[neat marten]

This is you completely reconstructing the entire gum gum fruit

And going against whatever Luffy thinks of his fruit really

[lunar topaz]

Monkey king theory sucks

[olive nebula]

I read something damn Interesting … some one mention that this might just be kaido future site what do you guys think ?

[granite salmon]

its the closest theory

[olive nebula]

I read something damn Interesting … some one mention that this might just be kaido future sight what do you guys think ?

[lunar topaz]

probably

[olive nebula]

If this really happens then I really have no idea how is luffy gonna be resurrected

[desert hatch]

i like that

[somber sphinx]

What if Luffy awaken is something like the impact dial effect. So fluffy can now accumulate kinetic energy by taking damage and then BOUNCE it back

[olive nebula]

I really hope it’s just future sight, I can’t think how luffy is gonna have a come back after taking such a big hit

[granite salmon]

bet luffy is going to fall unconsous and meet sun god nika or joy boy learn the name of the devil fruit and awaken it to beat the shit out of kaido

thats a half asses theory but it would be funny asf

[vivid cradle]

Eh, I think cp-0 is just going to annoy kaido, given cp-0 is a buzzkill

[granite salmon]

agreed

but him awakening it after kaido wrecks him and gets the shit kicked out of him with like 40% effort from luffy would be incredibly funny

[vivid cradle]

I think kaidos just going to be more interested in luffy. Potentially sees something, and dare I say.. doesnt defeat luffy.

[granite salmon]

or kaido joins luffys crew

[tough flare]

WHAT I WAS GONNA DAY XDDD

[granite salmon]

GREAT MINDS THINK ALIKE MY CHILD

[vivid cradle]

Nah, i dont think hell join crew. But probably start a war.. kaido in a war is a bigger event than kaido, defeated

As in, imagine kaido v marineford. Lol. V2

But then the arc ends in a buzzkill

[olive nebula]

Lol u watch too much AVATAR

[granite salmon]

Ik

[pale phoenix]

This is good

[austere silo]

if luffy had a mythical zoan all along why didnt he transform into a animal from the beggining

[granite salmon]

because his fruit got renamed to the rubber fruit

[austere silo]

Thats why he didnt transform into a animal

??

[broken star]

It could be his special ability like how Marco can heal and use fire, and since the rubber fruit was maybe renamed he only thought of stretching.

[restive mirage]

It's a mythical zoan ancient giant fruit. Enables user to expand and contract any part of his body. Ancient giants are insulators by nature. Grants user the secondary ability to use fire. Awakening allows full growth of size.

[mint barn]

This is a dumb theory but what if kaido gets angry trys to attack the wg but gets beaten/killed

[pure raven]

Luffy ate the gomu gomu no mi. Oda has even said that he loves the rubber fruit and that he 100% made the correct decision.

Plus there is nothing saying that it could be a different fruit

[vale current]

That’s why it’s all theories

[pure raven]

What's the point of a theory if it will clearly never happen

[vale current]

Now that’s an assumption only. May or may not happen.

[pure raven]

That's like me going oh I think luffy will decide to kill himself because blackbeard kills goku (goku gets teleported in by Joe Biden as seen in my other theory) and goku turns out to be very racist. And so then zoro decides to jump to the moon

[strong mulch]

I don't think that's a fair comparison

[pure raven]

They both will never happen

[vale current]

Theories that built up on Certain things in the manga that’s all.

[strong mulch]

Him saying that he likes rubber fruit and he admitted that he didn't make a wrong decision doesn't necessarily mean that he wouldn't change things from what he had planned in the past

There's still a possibility

[pure raven]

And my totally legit theory might happen

[strong mulch]

I don't think it'd be a zoan or a logia

[vale current]

Unnecessary thought

[pure raven]

What says that luffy actually ate the wuk wuk no mi

[strong mulch]

But I think gum gum fruit being a different paramecia fruit is still possible

[pure raven]

What would it be then

[strong mulch]

No clue, it's called theorizing after all

We wouldn't know for sure

[vale current]

Things like, dawn, sun god, fire god etc makes the theory.

[pure raven]

That makes zero sense. Because what us saying that it isn't the gomu gomu no mi?

[pure raven]

So what does the sun have to do with rubber

[strong mulch]

Kaido literally said that Luffy's Snakeman isn't something that rubber could do

Maybe he's not actually rubber after all

[pure raven]

That's because of the haki that has already been explained you clearly haven't been paying attention

[vale current]

I think your reasoning here is a bit too severe almost nonsensical since you don’t wanna enjoy the theory but is arguing radically with what everyone already knows well. Waste of time

[strong mulch]

What he said

Try to look stuffs from other perspective for once lmao

[vale current]

Read the theory, they’re not bs. Quite intriguing if that’s the case.

[pure raven]

But your main selling point I proved wrong

[pure raven]

I read this dudes point and proved it wrong

[vale current]

Lmao wtf

[strong mulch]

Yeah you done did proved him wrong

[vale current]

Yeah

[pure raven]

I proved you wrong

[strong mulch]

Sure man 👍🏼

[vale current]

Moving on

[strong mulch]

Thank you for proving me wrong, but anyways

[pure raven]

You said because kaido said that luffy snakeman didn't work like rubber when it does and you haven't been paying attention it was explained in the katakuri fight how the rubber works like that maybe pay attention to the actual manga. Kaido didn't understand it but us the readers do

So there you go I proved your silly point wrong again

[vale current]

Some jp actually “found” ギアゴ(gear 5) written subliminally on luffy’s face bruises

[strong mulch]

Yeah I saw that

People are freaking out over that

I wonder how Gear 5 would look like

[pure raven]

Yeah I saw that, that was cool

[pure raven]

So your just gonna ignore me huh?

It's funny as soon as you are proven wrong you just ignore it

[vale current]

But Oda said he thinks fans will be dissatisfied if Kaido is beaten bc of a simple luffy’s super punch

[strong mulch]

That's the interesting part

Most of luffy's move is just punching, kicking, and headbutting

[pure raven]

Which sbs?

[strong mulch]

So I guess G5 would be more than just punching

[pure raven]

Well first we need to see if the source is legit

[vale current]

Interview One Piece Great Newspapers Vol 2

[strong mulch]

If Luffy's fruit awakens, I don't think it'd work the same way as Doffy's or Katakuri's

[vale current]

Guess you behaving kinda silly man ngl here

[strong mulch]

Instead of turning things around him into rubber/gum, it'd be even more interesting if he gains other characteristics of rubber or presumably the real fruit

[pure raven]

Still checking if it's real

[strong mulch]

Like rubber can stretch, but it can also shrink and make itself even more dense

[vale current]

I thought smthn but very unlikely. Being able to stretch space time

[strong mulch]

Lmfao that'd be way OP

[pure raven]

Still more likely than luffy not eating the gomu gomu no mi

And yes the source is legit

[vale current]

But that’s way too broken

[strong mulch]

Indeed

[unreal delta]

Bruh luffy didn’t eat a paramecia 🗿

[strong mulch]

Honestly I think he'd deal more damage if he can compress his arms and add armaments

[pure raven]

Bro shut up I'm not getting into this conversation I already proved the other guy wrong

[strong mulch]

It'd be way more dense

[vale current]

The Sun god theory not even mine. Many ppl came up with that. I simply enjoyed it

[unreal delta]

O

[pure raven]

I'm not arguing with you, you can enjoy what you want lol

[strong mulch]

You're not allowed to make WRONG theories

[vale current]

I’m just a reader. I like some theories that’s all and you being so silly it’s funny

[strong mulch]

😤

[pure raven]

Are you saying my luffy kills himself, goku racist, zoro to the moon theory is valid?

[strong mulch]

Sure if that's what you wanted

I'm just here to theorize and discuss things with people, I don't really care what's right and what's wrong

[vale current]

Whatever this is all so silly bs by some dude

[strong mulch]

Indeed, indeed

Moving on

[vale current]

Moving on. There’s also a theory luffy’s name fits so well with the gomu df

[strong mulch]

Elaborate please

[raw laurel]

Check out this theory I made on why cp0. attacked luffy It has nothing to do with the fruit

https://www.reddit.com/r/WildAnimeTheories/comments/t75emt/why_the_goresei_are_really_after_luffy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

[strong mulch]

That's possible, either Luffy or Momo could be joyboy

But honestly I thought Gorosei wanted to kill Luffy so they can maintain the status quo

[pure raven]

Nah joyboy is clearly buggy. Because buggy has the voice of all things as seen in the oden flash-back.

[strong mulch]

They'd rather have kaido ruling wano over having a new threat

[vale current]

Reading

[raw laurel]

Thanks. If you have an account leave a upvote if you like it 🙂

[vale current]

Your thought on BB is new, none mentioned him around this situation. But some say it’s a rule the df the gorosei referred must be in Wano

[raw laurel]

Yes that’s one of my rules as well. I think kanjuro and otama are the best candidates for this fruit but I don’t think it’s luffy

[vale current]

The theory Most baffling is that’s Tama’s df, that triggered Zunesha when she gave the command “all” must fight

[strong mulch]

Yeah I like the fruit being Tama's fruit theory

Like it's not just a kibi-dango fruit, maybe something else

[vale current]

Bc might be silly as the WG put it, but dango name and the ability itself dont really match

[strong mulch]

Exactly

[raw laurel]

I think kanjuro might be the fruit user

[vale current]

But Tama’s df isn’t in the DF encyclopedia. Gomu df is iirc. If the WG changed the name of a df, how would ppl know?

[covert hazel]

I do too

[raw laurel]

It’s called the brush brush fruit and I think it’s actually the create create fruit

[lunar topaz]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/922090145002426378/949587485065883678/unknown.png

MALDING!!!!!!! tbh it kinda cringe ytber making essays on one single line

[vale current]

In this theory, perhaps “creation” is related? Bc there’s a lot of biblical symbolism in OP like Tree of Adam, Eve, Tree of Knowledge.

[raw laurel]

I don’t know about all that but kanjuro if he draws it, it can become reality.
So what happens if he draws like an army of kaido’s

[vale current]

That’s so fkn cryptic kek

[vale current]

He could draw a portal to laugh tale by logic?!

[cerulean skiff]

Just draw the one piece.

[raw laurel]

He could draw the one piece

[vale current]

Lol That would kill the series

[vale current]

But isn’t Kanjurou the only dead df user in Wano? Theory would strengthen bc his df will surely respawn in Wano and the WG is ready to obtain it

[pure raven]

If the devil fruit the gorosei were talking about is on wano, or if it's luffy's, we might see Blackbeard come to wano. Because as in the panel below, he says "Instead of letting it land in the hands of the marines, I'll take it myself" and we know Blackbeard and his crew are on a devil fruit hunting mission.

[vale current]

Which chp is the last image from

[pure raven]

Bb speaking us from 957/ 958 i.e act 2 end

As for zuneisha it is from 1036 ~1039 somewhere around here

[pure raven]

956

[amber oar]

There's a subtlety here though. Marines aren't in Wano, CP0 is. Sakazuki doesn't want to intervene Wano because they don't have the available personnel

[pure raven]

Yea true, but didn't we see a marine ship approaching wano?

[amber oar]

I think it was a similar vessel but with the WG flag, not the Navy's

[pure raven]

And also dont the marines work for the WG? So him saying marines could be a way of saying from the gorosei if that makes sense

[pure raven]

Ahh ok ok

[amber oar]

If BB said Marines the logic is that it involves the Marines

Then again that translation is not official, let me check

[pure raven]

Yea sorry should have used the offical translation my bad

[raw laurel]

I don’t think he’s dead yet and I think ussop gets his fruit

[pure raven]

Ussop would be amazing with that fruit

[amber oar]

Same thing with different words tbh

[pure raven]

Yea

[raw laurel]

Yes

[raw laurel]

https://www.reddit.com/r/WildAnimeTheories/comments/t1ujsl/the_fruit_the_elders_were_talking_about_is_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

[pure raven]

I like that theory a lot, maybe he gets his df here in wano and trains it in elbaf

[raw laurel]

Yes

Ussop vs Loki the gods of trickery

[pure raven]

I also saw a theory about Usopp getting Thor's hammer, elbaf is Viking based and their king is called Loki, maybe he has Thor's hammer but he can't use it cause he ain't worthy, Usopp will use that hammer to defeat Loki and gains respect from all the other giants

[marble fern]

So in 1042 Kaido says Rubber cant make attacks like this

so what if luffy df real power is something different, like rubber is just one element or characterstic of it and that it has many other uses. in that case it would also tell the fact why the wg was so eager in protecting that df

[raw laurel]

I think that’s just oda screwing with us

[woeful jewel]

Maybe oda has seen all those theories about Luffy's fruit, and is just screwing with us. Tamas choice is the most obvious choice.

[slender fulcrum]

The WG is on Wano, not the marines, they are busy with the Warlord. I think BB might be after the warlord's fruit. Maybe Boa, maybe whatever else fruit...

[pure raven]

Yea, if bb is going for the Warlords fruits, Moria would be the best choice and probably kuma but he's in Mariejois and i doubt he'll attack Mariejois yet

[slender fulcrum]

Moria's is with BB or have been killed by him though

[pure raven]

Yea i forgot about that

[wheat iron]

Has anyone made a theory of Luffy's DF

If it isn't Gomu then it must be a Mythical Zoan type of some sort

[raw laurel]

Here https://www.reddit.com/r/WildAnimeTheories/comments/t75emt/why_the_goresei_are_really_after_luffy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

[wheat iron]

His DF might be a Mythical Zoan which I assume is Hito Hito No Mi, Hanuman model. Based on the monkey Indian god Hanuman who has the ability to morph his body, has immunity against lightning, fire and water (explains why Luffy is so resistant). He was also depicted as having 5 different forms (which Luffy will possibly reach with his potential Gear 5)

[raw laurel]

It’s not a zoan

[wheat iron]

Might be

[raw laurel]

Can’t because he would have begun transforming straight away

[wheat iron]

Nah, in Myths Hanuman also forgot about his powers so

[raw laurel]

Luffy isn’t immune to fire though nor water

[wheat iron]

might be why Luffy has to learn the fruit

[raw laurel]

I don’t think luffy is the fruit they mentioned

[wheat iron]

Oda could tweak it in any way he likes tbh, do some read up on Hanuman, he's literally Luffy thematically, so it could be but it's just a theory after all

I know my Asian lore, but Hanuman is literally Luffy, Wukong has 72 spells and just doesnt allign very well with Luffy

[raw laurel]

Luffy being this fruit user creates plot holes also why would they fear this fruit so much they would rename it

[wheat iron]

Cause it's super OP i guess

[raw laurel]

It’s anime logic, I suppose raizo is also immune to fire because he was set on fire but is still alive

[raw laurel]

I don’t buy it

[muted ember]

So every SH who survived Enel attacks is immune to fire?

[wheat iron]

Dude is literally immune to lightning though

[raw laurel]

Because if rubber

[visual merlin]

He's immune to lightning, he's not immune to fire, we know this much

and being a good swimmer doesn't make you immune to water, and that was before having the fruit anyway

One piece isn't going to make perfect realistic since Radu

its lightning, luffy immune to lightning, thats the entire idea

[wheat iron]

as I said, it can be tweakd. Hanuman was killed by Indra the god of lightning so as he resurrected he was given lightning immunity first of all.

[visual merlin]

he's not immune to fire, we've seen him hurt by fire

[raw laurel]

Is hanuman immune to bullets and being punched ?
There’s a scene where kaido hits him with fire and said “ what your immune to fire “ and luffy shouts back that he isn’t immune he just doesn’t care if it hurts him

[visual merlin]

the same reason 15 other characterrs can use fire without hurting themselves

[severe edge]

it's called shonen logic

[raw laurel]

How can sanji set his leg on fire without burning his clothes

[visual merlin]

its what it is

[wheat iron]

Tbh it's the features rather than the immunity, or else Sengoku would be immune to everything

[visual merlin]

same way Lucci can turn into a huge hybrid form and his clothes doesn't rip, for another example

[severe edge]

you could go on to argue that it has something to do with "will" and sort of a symbolization for like "burning passion" or some shit but it's all just pointless and based of off nothing really

[muted ember]

Luffy got his fire fist from Garp

[raw laurel]

Kid and law were hit by fire balls and were fine

So no luffy is not a mythical zoan

[wheat iron]

mf be like lets ignore everything and say it's not cause he take fire damage

[raw laurel]

Mf be like i have to be right because I made this small connection but I’m going to ignore every counter argument.

Pfff your wrong get over it

He’s not immune to fire, he’s not immune to water, he can’t shape shift, he has all the properties of rubber, he knows he’s made of rubber, he’s immune to blunt attacks and countless other things.

Luffy is not a zoan user

[wheat iron]

what argument lmfao you dont know the myth, you havent read up on anything and say "no he isnt exactly like the myth so he aint it" what's that about? theories are supposed to be discussed, i have zero intentions of arguing, just that you are irritating

enlarging himself is a form of shapeshift, you dont have to look like a furry to be considered shapeshifting fyi

[visual merlin]

the shapeshifting only goes for making himself bigger though, is that true for whatever myth you're associating him with? And why does he have to blow into his finger or arm for it?

[wheat iron]

anime i guess, or Oda havent thought it up. And i was mistaken, he HAS the power of fire and water, not immune to it, translating myself got me confused

[visual merlin]

But Luffy doesn't have the power of water, and his fire use only goes as far as having a bit of fire on his arm when using red hawk

[wheat iron]

yeah but that's just a perk of it though so Oda can get rid of them, my main point is the 5 forms of Hanuman in his myth. At first I wouldnt think Luffy was anything but rubber, but from what Kaido said it's likely he's not

[midnight pendant]

hanuman isnt immune to fire
he got his tail light up and sita just transfered that pain to herself
that doent make him immune

[visual merlin]

But what else would he be? Even if he's not rubber, he still has to have all the properties he's shwon throughout the series

[wheat iron]

Luffy can say "ofc rubber works like that its anime logic" but Kaido is in the same manga

[visual merlin]

Also, for that matter Kaido does do the exact same thing as snakeman a second later

so he's not exactly making sense according to his logic either

[wheat iron]

Yep thats what i'm tryin to figure out. For Kaido, him being a mythical creature helps correct his stupid zig zac movement

[visual merlin]

mythical creature doesn't automatically explain it, he's still just a dragon with scales, his body shouldn't be able to move like that if rubber can't

[raw laurel]

I already debunked your theory though, luffy isn’t immune to fire nor water he can not shape shift and has all the properties of rubber.

[wheat iron]

i dont know my man, i expect Kaido to be aware of his world more than we do

[raw laurel]

Enlarging yourself is also a form of rubber

[wheat iron]

There wouldnt be any theory if the series aint pointing at Luffy being something else would it.

[raw laurel]

Except it’s an obvious red herring and luffy isn’t actually something else he just ate the gomu gomu and the real mysteries fruit is something else entirely

[wheat iron]

You already believed that, thus not having a need for a theory, so why argue? I'm not here to do that.

[raw laurel]

There is a theory it’s just not the df. Instead luffy is getting targeted for another reason that’s not the df

[raw laurel]

Here https://www.reddit.com/r/WildAnimeTheories/comments/t75emt/why_the_goresei_are_really_after_luffy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

This is the answer

[wheat iron]

He has a billion reason to be targeted, his bloodline, his reputation as a rising pirate, him beating a Celestial Dragon, his charm of leadership. Not the reason why Kaido's say he's doing things rubber can't do

[raw laurel]

And him having this special df makes no sense as it creates flaws in the story

[wheat iron]

That's why it has to be special enough.

[raw laurel]

Still creates plot holes so again nope

Read the theory then go to the comment section and read my comment on red herrings that explains why this fruit cannot be the gomu gomu

[amber oar]

side note, love how the front page of that sub is literally 100% OP theories

[fathom matrix]

I can imagine the CP0 agent saying something like "this is what you wanted, right? I'm here to eliminate straw hta Luffy. Once he's dead, you can go about your merry way" And I can see his probably trying to use a finger pistol.

But Kaido might grab his hand or grab him in general and try to kill him.

And while the CP0 agent is running away with Kaido chasing him, this gives luffy time to recover

[amber oar]

You always imagine specific dialogues for some strange reason, Blueberg

The short (note after writing the whole thing: ok not so short) explanation why the special fruit being the Gomu Gomu generates plotholes is: The Elders talk about the mysterious fruit as if it was some sort of legend, even they aren't sure of its existence. However not only that df was in hands of the government at some point, but also Luffy has been in the public eye for 2 years and he's shown his powers to high ranked WG agents multiple times -Enies Lobby, Sabaody, Marineford, you may count Dressrosa even if they were looking at the fight with Doffy. Even Stussy may have had a glimpse in WCI-. The sudden realization the DF is there and may awaken doesn't fit at all with the previous knowledge the WG totally should have about Luffy. Ah, and on top of that, the Gomu Gomu illustration is in the DF encyclopedia, and from a SBS and the scene where some CP9 were given DFs, we know not every fruit is there.

All of this would be in theory fixed by the Gomu Gomu showing a different, unexpected property it hasn't shown before. But there's another issue - that property which would identify the "real" thing should have already happened in order for the Elders to figure out. We haven't seen anything out of the usual in Luffy to think that. People mention Kaido's note on Snakeman's bounces, but the Elders discussed the DF a while before Luffy started using Snakeman - I don't think much on that line though, I think it goes more in line with Luffy's "defying logic" trope (which also applies to Emperors, as stated multiple times)

[warm narwhal]

Grandline video is about Kidd, but it gave me a huge theory idea about Jewelry

Jewelry Bonnie is also from the south blue, she’s also around the age of 24 also. Akainu said to jewelry “that he was sick that she escaped from the world government”. The conclusion I just discovered is she was likely one of the children that was taken around the Roger child search. Making me believe that the government didn’t really kill all the kids but secretly made them into soldiers, likely CP0 maybe.

https://youtu.be/rCbjsrURI-I

[oak mortar]

That SBS also has plot holes involved as Oda has mentioned that he will explain later on in the storyline about this.. and clearly still hasnt been mentioned yet. So defining a plothole backed by plotholes involved isnt proving of having evidence. also this- ''that property which would identify the "real" thing should have already happened in order for the Elders to figure out''<----- this is also another plothole because shanks of all people could of told the gorosei about the fruit ...... just maybe........ im not saying it is shanks im just saying that this is a plothole as well.

[crude turtle]

I agree with you, but Luffy used Snakeman in 1025 when he came back

[fathom matrix]

The only thing I can possibly think of it this.

Not every government official knows about what happened during the void century. I think only a select few, hell, not even some celestial dragons, are allowed to know what happened.

If they alert every government official about retrieving that fruit, send out giant bounty wanted posters within the first few arcs, and send a lot of resources to take that fruit, people are going to become suspicious, question the gorosei and wonder why they're so set on that one fruit. Which they want to keep very secret and not have an issue of trying to hide it.

And if this was Joyboy's fruit, or a special fruit from the void century, then they would want to be super secretive and careful. Plus, I doubt every piece of information is always given to the gorosei and when they only hear about a pirate named "straw hat luffy" causing havoc, they only hear about it being Garp's stupid grandson.

I doubt his powers are always reported to the gorosei, but they may have been most recently, probably by stucy or CP9 explained it them.

Plus, for all we know, maybe even Sengoku doesn't know what that devil fruit is really, and he may know the gist about the void century and the will of D but the Gorosei are the one who know everything.

Plus, while Luffy did always shout gum gum this, gum gum that, I doubt the Gorosei heard a report saying "500 men got gum gum pistolled" or "10,000 men got gum gum gattlinged" or "50 guys got gum gum UFO'ed? what the hell?"

[amber oar]

It's something much simpler, a database with every known threat and their known abilities/devil fruit.

That's how they also know Teach's double df usage is unprecedented

[oak mortar]

theres still sooo many plotholes within plotholes if it would be luffys fruit then some holes would have to be filled up later on to justify this

[amber oar]

How aren't they going to register the abilities of a a 300M pirate

[fathom matrix]

WAIT, I just realised. Didn't Lucky Ru just show a drawing of the Gum Gum fruit and said "luffy, did you eat this?"

And now that I think about it, Shanks is the one who took it from a world government ship and considering how important it is, maybe Shanks had prior knowledgeof it? Like Roger or someone told them the truth of that fruit?

And I think the fruit was said to have been renamed

[oak mortar]

we have no clue but all we know and that for now oda has put some energy toward the WG eliminating luffy when the gorusei talked about a certain fruit a few chapter ago and also during the reverie imu had four pictures. the WG boats are in wano, and now the WG called CP0 to eliminate of those four picture..... hmmmm?

[amber oar]

The Gomu Gomu's illustration is in an encyclopedia (which is yet another point sorta against it being the legendary one), Shanks's drawing is just a copy of that

[oak mortar]

the SBS did say that he will mention about it later on in the story. and also the gomu gomu is the normal fruit which they knew about(which is in the encyclopedia but they just realized that there can be more to it than meets the eye<----which isn't in the encyclopedia).

[pure raven]

Could there be a twist here:

they know of a fruit that changed its name, and they know what that fruit was originally -- but they don't know what was the named the fruit was given, it was kept secret by the 20 OG kings.

[oak mortar]

its one of the rarest treasures in the sea.... hmmm? chapter 1 shanks knew maybe or maybe not. maybe the WG didnt know it as the rarest fruit of the sea as maybe shanks knew of its secret?

[pure raven]

DFs by themselves are rare, but that could also be it - but it isn't Luffy's fruit (my headcanon)

[oak mortar]

but it being the rarest.......

[pure raven]

he could be talking about the DFs themselves

[sand sail]

Every devil fruit is equally rare, they're all completely unique. Just being a devil fruit makes it a rare treasure

[amber oar]

Devil fruits are one of the rarest treasures in the sea, per se. It's just that their users end congregating in the Grand Line. When Buggy reveals his everyone is in shock as well

[sand sail]

There's easy categorization with the whole paramecia/logia/zoan, but there's only exactly one of each and every fruit in the world

[oak mortar]

yeah i just read along those lines. i guess it can be read differently today

[pure raven]

not really, Bean.

A fruit that was seen 400 years ago and has sat in the middle of a forest where no one goes since then is more rare than a fruit that has been in circulation all this time

[sand sail]

No it isn't, it's just less known

[amber oar]

Except Kaido's, amusingly

[sand sail]

Those two things still very much exist at the same time, one is just harder to get to

I was going to say except the Uo Uo, but Kaido's is a blue dragon model right? I figured we could separate blue and pink for momo

[pure raven]

yeah they are equally rare in the universe, how is that valuable??

rarity here is related to the availability of a fruit

that's why one is a legend, another is just a power that has been seen in the past decades multiple times

[sand sail]

No, it isn't, it's related to the fruit being a "rare treasure", or the rarest on the sea

They're all equally rare since there's only one of every fruit in existence, some are just in circulation more than others

The fruit being a legend has nothing to do with rarity lol

[pure raven]

yeah, I am saying that it could be both

• fruits are the rarest in the sea, this is a fruit, thus one of the rarest treasures
  or
• this fruit hasn't been available for centuries, even though people have tried to find it, making it by itself one of the rarest treasures of the sea, people only think of it as a legend; some other fruits are way more available

[oak mortar]

but a rare fruit can still be rare to get but have legendary powers

[sand sail]

Every fruit is rare to get, there's only one of any of them. The rarest would technically actually be Toki's, but she's the only one that would have a difference

[steady prism]

Who do you think was the guard that told Whos-who about Sun God Nika? Do you think this type of information is a taboo? It doesn’t make sense to me why a guard would tell Whos-Who about this theory. It makes even less sense that they’d be a revolutionary army member….

[sand sail]

The fruit was already in the possession of the world government, but this doesn't seem to be a fruit that anyone but the Gorosei think of as a legend so far. But it is literally equally as common as any other fruit out there, minus Toki's, because there's only one of any at all

It may rarely activate/awaken, and that's another conversation, but in and of itself it'd be just as common as any other fruit even if hard to get to

Now, we could go by category if you want to call it something super rare. If it's somehow its own new classification, then it justifies it

[pure raven]

rarity can be about quantity, but also the amount of occurrences in time.

Our sun is rare in quantity in the sense it's the only sun that is our sun. It is not rare in occurrences.

But a specific comet with a clown face, as rare in quantity as the sun for being the only comet with a clown face, only appears every 7000 years. It is more rare in occurrences and availability.

[sand sail]

You're trying to equate two different qualities of rare here, the fruit's objective existence is equally as rare as any other fruit out there. Like I said, talking about how hard it is to get or how often someone's eaten it is another discussion, but the fruit itself can't be any rarer than any other

Except the Toki Toki, because time travel

[pure raven]

see you're saying "yeah it can mean that, but we're not talking about that"... I am saying that is one way to interpret the panel

I'm not equating anything, I am saying "rare" in this context can mean both

[sand sail]

I'm not sure I agree that it can be both, has anyone ever referred to fruits in that context before?

I don't think that's a way they really hold them, it's usually rare by category, never by fruit. Like, logias are the rarest fruit behind mythical zoans

[amber oar]

There's also availability. For example nobody has seen the Soru Soru in the wild in what, 70,90,100 years (because Linlin got it as soon as Carmel died)

[sand sail]

True, but the power was still active, so do we count that?

'Cause then it's like people know it and it's being used, so it's not really unseen or hard to get or anything

[pure raven]

the fruit is rare because it's unique

fruits themselves are limited in number and all are unique - so the category is rare

a specific fruit can be rare because it can't be obtained/it hasn't been seen/has less occurrences

---

when talking about a treasure one can obtain, all those can be interpretations of the panel

[sand sail]

Sure, but it's not useful to bring something that isn't an expressed idea in the manga in general here

Has anyone ever indicated a single fruit to be rare?

[pure raven]

we are talking about how that panel could be interpreted in the light of it being Luffy's fruit

[sand sail]

This is the kind of thing that, for example, Blackbeard would be bringing up with the yami yami

Yes, I'm disagreeing that this is a possible interpretation

Because this doesn't seem to be how people consider fruits in the series

[pure raven]

nah, you're saying it's not a likely or useful interpretation, it's not about being possible anymore

[sand sail]

No no, I'm saying it's not a possible one

[pure raven]

conflicting statements

[sand sail]

As in, it's impossible for that to be an interpretation based only on the complete lack of it in the series as a general thought

[pure raven]

it's not impossible, it may not be useful, because it may be unlikely

[sand sail]

No stoop, I said it wasn't useful to present an idea not expressed in the manga. Nothing conflicts here

If the idea is in the manga, then there's credit to the interpretation

[pure raven]

"all those can be" "sure, but"

so it's about credit, usefulness, not possibility

[sand sail]

But if no one's ever considered any fruit that way before, I can't see that being a possible interpretation of the scene, it wouldn't fit

If, for example, people went on about how the yami yami was a rarity on the sea or the gura gura almost never appeared and that made it special or something, that would make this interpretation all but confirmed based on recent events. But that hard lack leads me to believe this isn't a valid interpretation we can present

Not that it's entirely impossible, just based strictly on that premise

[pure raven]

another interpretation

• for being a special fruit, it can be a rarity among the other fruits

one of the rarest treasures by itself, for being a special fruit
one of the rarest treasures by itself, for its occurrences are rare in history
one of the rarest treasures by itself, for it's hard to obtain it
one of the rarest treasures by being a fruit, because of its uniqueness (shared trait with other DFs)
one of the rarest treasures by being a fruit, because fruits themselves are rare in occurrences in history

[wet glade]

Did kaido just confirm that luffy's fruit is different?

[sand sail]

Most of those interpretations don't work at all lol

[oak mortar]

no he didnt

[sand sail]

The last one not whatsoever

But that was one of the things I was looking for, that lends credit to the thought

[wet glade]

Didn't he say that gum doesn't have these properties?

[pure raven]

they do work, you just think they are not useful

[sand sail]

The last one literally can't work, Blackbeard specifies it's a rarity among logia fruits, it can't be rare because it's a fruit

[pure raven]

I am talking about Shanks's panel

[oak mortar]

rubber shouldnt have those properties sure he did say that but it being different we are not sure yet. we get a confirmation when it the fruit will be actually different... 😛

[sand sail]

Oh, even for that, most still don't work. The last two are the same, and it was already obtained, so difficulty can't really be counted here

Unless you want to say the World Government keeping it hostage should factor into it being rare?

[pure raven]

that or the WG got the fruit after 958340946 years of no occurrences

[sand sail]

It's been less than 800, but sure, that's a possibility

[pure raven]

the last one means "oh fruits are out there, but they're rare, only a select number of people can find one"

it depends on the context in which it is "rare"

also, actually "rare" is just one translation here, we can't forget we're talking translations

Shanks says 秘宝 - hidden/secret treasure
BB says 異質 - different/heterogenous

[modest skiff]

Isn’t the only fruit that has abnormal rarity the Toki fruit since it could not be in existence at a certain time? So long as there is only 1 of each, they all have identical rarity

[wet glade]

ye but kinda dropped some hint . Foreshadowing in one piece is infamous

[pure raven]

that's one interpretation, you can go up to get the whole context of the conversation

[oak mortar]

yeah its a hint oda loves his hints 😛

[modest skiff]

There’s no other interpretation. That’s just statistics. Nothing can make that not true. I think BB meant the Yami has qualities which are rare among devil fruits, such as the ability to nullify other fruits. But in terms of the rarity of the item, it is equal to all others except Toki

[pure raven]

yeah you are explaining a context of rarity that was already talked about, while saying "there's no other interpretation"

"there's no other interpretation, but look at this other interpretation"

[modest skiff]

There’s no other rarity of the item. But I don’t think BB was talking about the rarity of the item. He was talking about the rarity of the power

[pure raven]

"logias with the special property" is more rare than "logias without the special property", that's a context you've just explained that changes the interpretation

[modest skiff]

Yeah I agree it’s all about the rarity of the power

[pure raven]

and I already showed this, idk what you want from this

[modest skiff]

Sorry I misunderstood lol

[opaque pivot]

Goodnight

[tawdry bramble]

I wonder if Luffy is already using partial awakening in Gear 4th by turning the air into rubber which is how his punches can redirect

Would also explain how his attacks gain extra speed that way because the rubber bouncing them gives the extra boost

[pure raven]

perhaps, I thought that'd be his awakening right away

[cyan berry]

but thats just snakeman 😔

snakeman with more steps

[pure raven]

yeah awakening doesn't have to be a new form... it could just be incorporated into his fighting style

which means snakeman could already be awakening

tho that's a wild assumption

[primal cargo]

I'd be VERY surprised. Such a big thing as Awakening, for the protagonist of the manga, surely when it happens it will be a big deal, not "he was already doing it I just hadn't told you", that would be lame

[sinful helm]

wasnt wukongs best friends a monk and a pig monster

[buoyant perch]

this theory wud ve been perfect...if it was nt for enel....but still this is very much possible...

[marble fern]

yo where is my comment who deleted it

[abstract pond]

But is Wukong immune to electricity?xd

[pure raven]

so uh I think this can be posted here as well

[slender fulcrum]

Kaido is apparently aware of a Joy Boy prophecy. If Luffy awaknes his DF and, somehow, prove that he is JoyBoy 'reincarnation' ( or at least he carries the will of Joy Boy ) ( hint : Zunesha ) then Kaido might , under unknown element, recognize him as his king. I mean, the very fact that Kaido said " you couldn't be joyboy either" means that he was awaiting or expecting JoyBoy or someone having Joy Boy's will to come up. There is indeed more than meet the eye in all of this confrontation, and , maybe, what the Gurusei fears is Kaido surrending to Luffy.

As for the gum gum fruit : it could have been a zoan from the start. A " human rubber " zoan or some shit like this. To hide its true nature the WG renamed it as a gum gum paramecia but its in fact some divine zoan fruit of a divinity that could turn thing or use things like rubber. Sun Wukong could fit

The more I think about it the more I like it too 😄 Having a " monkey " fruit for a character whos' family name is " Monkey " bother me.
But if Luffy got a Human Zoan fruit : divine rubber god , or whatever, then it could be King Monkey D. Luffy

Hence monkey king, but without being a real monkey xD

[modest skiff]

If your comment was deleted, it probably did not comply with the rules described in the channel description. This is a very strictly moderated channel so as to keep the effort of conversation high

[vocal hollow]

shanks comes to save luffy at the rooftop

[pure raven]

eh yeah that's it hehehe. But really, I have this idea for the longest time, and I am trying to explain it to others, but I am having a hard time making people understand the concept I'm going for

[unique isle]

i think black beard ate 3 devil fruits, his first being the Zoan Ancient Cerbius fruit

[stiff tusk]

Guys

I have a theory about how kaido weakness

[primal cargo]

What is your theory on Kaido's weakness

[stiff tusk]

It is mil

I mean milk

[stiff tusk]

OK so I did some research and I found out that a common weakness dragons share in ancient stories are milk and greed so I think maybe those will be applied due to kaidos dragon fruit

I swear this is not a joke theory I actually did reaserch

[rustic lance]

I think you might have to expand a bit more there, especially as folklore across the world depicts dragons differently.

[pure raven]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/t7gn69/a_roman_riot_inspired_the_ancient_war_and_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

Not my theory, but it was a good read

[unique isle]

Try again, lol

I think kido gets soloed by zoro

and Kid/Killed/Traffy/Luffy play clean up

[hidden turtle]

yo guys

what does elbaf have to do with the ending

[slender fulcrum]

I think it'll be somehow related to vegapunk

[hidden turtle]

vegapunk used kaidos devil fruit to make momonosukes artifical one right

[slender fulcrum]

Don't ask me why. Vegapunk is set to meet the SH and tell them stuff about DF, and we never saw him yet, and Elbaf is one of the last island that has been teased

[hidden turtle]

sh and df?

[slender fulcrum]

Strawhat / devil's fruit

[hidden turtle]

oh

[slender fulcrum]

nothing concrete on my mind, just a feeling

[hidden turtle]

how do you know that he will me sh

[slender fulcrum]

Oda let some note several years ago telling that the mugiwara will learn stuff about devil's fruit when they'll meet vegapunk

[hidden turtle]

what happens if he dies (oda)

[slender fulcrum]

Vegapunk will meet the Straw Hat Pirates later to influence the Onepiece storyline, as Oda said in One Piece magazine volume 9.

[hidden turtle]

bruh kizarus name is borsalino

[amber oar]

you didn't know?

[hidden turtle]

wtf didnt even know when tf was that mentioned

[amber oar]

pretty sure it's in his intro box

[hidden turtle]

oh bruh

[dawn fiber]

@sand sail

[timid oxide]

Uh what’s up with the chap in announcements

No color this week

[torpid mist]

Hakuba is an ancient weapon

[austere silo]

Guys what if nico robin teaches brook how to read poneglyphs and brook could use his new df powers to become souk and read every red poneglyphs and mark where raftle is and go to raftel that would have been very easy

[glad raft]

Elbaf Fable

[severe fox]

can i spoil 1042 ?

[halcyon talon]

you can talk about the current chapter here yes

[severe fox]

Not rubber , gum gum fruit is the renamed fruit

[halcyon talon]

thats one of the ongoing theories rn yea

although there are also people saying it definitely is not luffy's fruit, im sitting on the fence about it

[severe fox]

Three points
Gum gum fruit is important to the world government
Important enough to fire a cp9 member for loosing it to shanks

A fruit has been renamed ,by the government to conceal its true powers

Gum gum fruit is a permecia although it logic says it should be a logia (i know special permecia ,but still ) and now to add to this. Kaido says thats not rubber

[halcyon talon]

i dont believe that the gomu gomu fruit should be a logia

it's not really a natural element (synthetic i think?)

[stuck dragon]

there are a few 'kinds' of paramecia; generators like mr 3, magellan and perona, enviroment alterers like fujitora, law, hell even foxy, and then body alterations, like luffy, mr 1, diamante, etc

[stuck dragon]

and there are natural rubbers but I dont see it being a logia

[halcyon talon]

yeah when i researched just then i did see that rubbers can be natural but i agree i wouldn't see it being a logia either

[stuck dragon]

and finally, not just fired, but imprisoned in impel down, worse than what happened to lucci, kaku, and cp9 (although they did have to go on the run, they didnt get thrown in impel down)

[stuck dragon]

im of the opinion it'd be a mythical zoan fruit akin to sengokus but sun wukong instead of buddha

not to say that I think its a good idea

[halcyon talon]

i heard about that theory from someone yesterday actually

[stuck dragon]

just that's what it's looking like to me from my reading of the chapter

[halcyon talon]

which part specifically

[stuck dragon]

in no particular order, bits of evidence (and possibly counterevidence) for it

• kaido saying that's not how rubber should act (although this could be something more akin to luffy vs doffy)
• Initially, reading of Gomu Gomu no Supreme Kong Gun was Supreme Monkey King Gun (fairly loose, supreme was with same kanji as supreme king/conq)
• Gorosei on the DF name change and the eliminate Luffy order (even though they've been trying to catch him consistently, with little luck)
• Hyogoro saying Bounceman looks like the God of Fire (general deity connection, although might be more tied to Nika)
• CP0 boss getting into the fight even though it didnt seem like he thought it was smart (I'm thinking this is more support as to why it's luffy's fruit that was name changed)
  plus other things that luffy has done that mirror wukong (fighting/rebelling against "gods", was imprisoned, fought Buddha)

i'm open to discussing this and i'll say i'm open to thinking what else it could be instead (tree tree fruit is also a good idea) but I'm fairly sure it's luffy's fruit that was renamed

[junior nebula]

I am very sure its Luffy's fruit.

[worldly cypress]

Luffy is in a constant rubber state like a logia, transforms like a zoan and is classified as a paramecia. His fruit is definitely special.

[gloomy dirge]

I bet he's elasticity instead of rubber rubber.

-This is what Luffy's awakening I imagined would function like

For example in muscles "Elasticity is the ability to recoil or bounce back to the muscle's original length after being stretched."

[quick hatch]

I dont think other series are allowed even though I agree

[gloomy dirge]

Ah I'm just trying to say that as an example.

[quick hatch]

You should probably delete

If you want put in other series with spoilers tag and link from here

[gloomy dirge]

Nah it's fine

[quick hatch]

Cool. I agree with the theory. I think making air rubber is strong

[surreal mesa]

so can someone explain what happened with this most recent chapter CP0 uses iron body to do what to luffy

[modest skiff]

Thank you sir

I have also considered the possibility that the fruit is actually elasticity rather than rubber, but the fact that he was 100% immune to electricity hurts that theory a lot. Ultimately, Luffy's fight vs Enel is a major counter point to all the Luffy fruit theories

[quick hatch]

Yeah. His electric immunity means hes an insulator which eliminates a few options.

Insulators are structures that dont have free flowing charged particles. So all non metals are out of the picture and all solid ionic compounds

[modest skiff]

I choose to view Luffy's unique qualities as his ability to become different forms of rubber. There are lots of ways in synthetic chemistry to make stuff more or less elastic/rigid. When Luffy makes himself have extreme tension in gear 4, I see it as him essentially changing some of the properties of himself as a rubber. Similar to how users can change the intensity of their powers, like heat and whatnot

[quick hatch]

I dont think its a luffy thing . I think oda just gave all general qualities of rubber too luffy

[modest skiff]

The dude who gets heavy doesn't just turn 500 kilos. He can get extra heavy. Barriers can get extra big. Fire can get extra hot. I think Luffy can just change himself similarly

[cold mist]

Good question queb I’m not sure what cpo did exactly to luffy either

[modest skiff]

Please don't post images without giving a well thought out explanation of what you think of it. We ask for more effort when posting in this channel, per channel description. Thank you!

[fallow knot]

I think luffy df related to him

[modest skiff]

The one thing that makes me squint regarding Luffy's power is the fact that he was very bad at using it when he first got it. All other users seem to do a pretty good job at just instantly using their power. The most notable example is Sabo. But Luffy had poor control of his rubber abilities and would miss punches. Maybe this was just from being a kid, but I dunno. No other user has been shown to have a poor ability to use their power. Unless I am forgetting someone

[modest skiff]

What makes you think that?

[fallow knot]

Shape shifting to other animal forms

[celest oracle]

Is it just me or does anyone else find the last page strange in the. Manga

"flurry of emotions"

[quick hatch]

Yeah that comment was weird

The last page was great though

[celest oracle]

you think that CP0 guy is oden? Vegupunk could have done something to his body

He is probably capable as well

[quick hatch]

No. I dont. I think thats very Bizzare

[celest oracle]

And he kind looks like oden from the side as well.

[celest oracle]

Hmm

[quick hatch]

I guess. But it just is to many jumps in logic

[celest oracle]

True

[modest skiff]

Flurry of emotions could just mean that he is conflicted in helping a Yonko, but you are right that it is worth squinting at. It being Oden is totally insane though IMO. What makes you think that? Oden is totally gigantic

[celest oracle]

I said his body could be altered by vegapunk

[modest skiff]

You could say that about anyone. Why not Roger? Just alter his body. I don't think that's a good way to think because it could apply to every single character

[celest oracle]

Also it seems luffy's fruit might not be rubber

[celest oracle]

Oden could have still been alive

[modest skiff]

I think you are saying "this is technically possible" rather than "here is why I think this is true", which applies to a lot of situations

[celest oracle]

True

But Roger was killed, oden survived over an our in a pot

We never saw his dead body as well

[modest skiff]

Maybe, I'm just saying it is hard to point to any evidence whatsoever

[celest oracle]

Ur right

OK I gtg bye

[modest skiff]

see ya

[red echo]

Dang that means Vegapunk can make zombies

Like the doctor back on TB :p forgot his name but he made zombies for Moria to put shadows into

[vale current]

Unless there's some 2nd thought on Luffy x Enel fight; like what if the electricity immunity is simply something else?! Pertaining to the real nature of Luffy's df whatever it is

[modest skiff]

What else could it be?

[wet perch]

Isn’t Son Wukong immune to electricity?

[vale current]

Idk actually but we all know for a fact that Oda always twist his inspirations. I could only think of smthn, a bit stretchy, about the nuances left out in Enel arc, that "natural enemy", "natural enemy of god (Enel)" etc. Even tho luffy been close to death
Then "Rubber natural resistance of Electricity" ringing along

[modest skiff]

Not to my knowledge. What are you referring to?

[covert hazel]

It makes Cp0's body rigid, which means Luffy couldn't complete his attack

[wet perch]

https://journeytothewestresearch.com/2018/09/09/sun-wukong-and-the-three-heavenly-calamities/

[amber oar]

Ffs guys stop trying to revive Oden in any fashion, he's dead, gone, caput, he was boiled, that's the whole point of this arc, even the kanjuro drawing chapter was a talk to the 4th wall making clear he's no more, it's an absolutely garbage idea anyway and Oda is better than that, this is not fucking [redacted]

[amber oar]

Pretty sure journey to the west precedes the knowledge of electricity

Done @modest skiff

[vale current]

Really interesting. Calamity of thunder (Enel) but How would it mean immunity?

[pure raven]

controversial theory here guys but what if luffy just has the power of rubber

[junior cape]

lol

[vale current]

We'd be all fine with that kek

For me what strengthens the sun wukong theory is the existence of the Buddha df

[wet perch]

Why did Enel make this face?

[modest skiff]

I still think everything can be explained with Rubber where Luffy has the ability to adjust the properties of his rubber

[vale current]

Bc he couldn't axe luffy

[junior cape]

Enel made that face because for the first time in his life, someone was immune to his powers, and he had no idea what to do. Also, he'd just been punched in the face.

[vale current]

Plus since Buddha and Sun wukong are connected

[modest skiff]

The only thing that makes me worry it really is sun wukong is the fact that his family name is Monkey lol

I feel like in some ways, its incredibly obvious, but I also still hope it isn't

[vale current]

I mean, we must consider Oda himself how he does things. We know he: foreshadow, make patterns, twist

[modest skiff]

Overall I think we have hints, but really not enough info to say anything for sure yet.

But Monkey really just has me worried

[wet perch]

A Monkey is going to be King of the pirates

[vale current]

Well for sure is only things straight up canon

[wet glade]

reject humanity return to monke 🤝

[vale current]

And ngl Tama's theory is wilder imo

[near beacon]

Look fellas, if luffy is a zoan, why hasnt he transformed as of yet, not sure if its possible to retcon it at this point, a lot of people talk about red hawk and fire, so my understanding has always been that because of rubber/elasticity you can increase the drag/resistance when rubbed against the air and this ignites the sparks to channel the flames, kind of how if you keep on effectively dragging and rubbing two stones its going to generate a flame(people did this in some stone age past)

[vale current]

Maybe for Plot reasons. Like if it's something special ofc it'll take a while

[stuck dragon]

Okay, this is the only legitimate criticism I've seen that doesn't say "but sun wukong can't do this", and honestly it's just the "why no transform" that makes it

[junior cape]

Honestly Luffy may have already unknowingly awakened his devil fruit. The main properties of rubber are that it can contract and expand, but always return to its original shape. However, in G4, Luffy can force seemingly infinite expansion, and can redirect his blows mid-attack, all while gaining speed. This shouldn't be possible, as Kaido points out. The expansion we can give a pass, since he is rubber, however the redirection is another thing. To do so would either require the ability to manipulate only parts of a rapidly-expanding muscle group, at moment's notice, instantaneously, or the ability to bounce off air. The first is, unfortunately for Luffy, still impossible. Humans do not have the ability, regardless of how strong they are, to control specific groups of cells in the same muscle area, and haki won't work because it doesn't solve the timing problems, especially in G4 where haki is running wild all over his body. That leaves us with the ability to bounce on air. From wikipedia, air (mostly oxygen) can turn into a solid at 54.36 Kelvin, or under 6500 atmospheres at 0 Celsius. Since we don't see massive temperature spikes or pressure differentials whenever Luffy uses G4, these cannot be the case. Therefore, I believe that Luffy is using his awakened powers, albeit unknowingly, to cause the air his fists are traveling through to solidify into rubber for a split second in order to bounce. This would also help explain the energy loss G4 incurs since, as Law and Kid stated, using your fruit's awakened powers takes immense stamina and leaves you exhausted. This would also explain why G4 can fly, since Luffy cannot use Moonwalk or fly normally. He could be turning the air he kicks into rubber, then bouncing off it.

[wet perch]

Why does the WG fear the awakened form of a specific devil fruit so much that they change the name of the fruit to hide its true nature? Seems like they don’t care about the fruits base abilities, only it’s awakened ability. And now that Luffy seems to be pushed far enough that awakening may happen, the WG are getting nervous.

[stuck dragon]

G4, like G2, uses techniques similar to the 6 powers to achieve certain things

[modest skiff]

My hope is that everything we have been told and taken as fact regarding awakening is actually a set of incomplete truths. Law’s awakening gives credit to the idea. It may simply be that no one we have encountered yet fully understands it. So all the explanations from characters that we take as 100% fact is simply not correct. It would be a great world building choice by Oda to have what seems like the writer explaining something to us to simply be character’s best understanding

[stuck dragon]

Luffy vs Blueno, figured out Soru/Shave (just kicking off multiple times in a split second)

G4 Boundman's flight does a similar thing to achieve a Geppo/Moonwalk like effect

Energy loss from G4 also comes from Luffy spreading Haki throughout himself

[junior cape]

G2 is Soru, or Shave (Translation dependent), and relies on speeding up blood flow around the body SIGNIFICANTLY. So much so that he can move like CP9/0. However, this comes with the energy drain drawback as all that extra work takes much more fuel. This does not include Iron Body or Moonwalk, and definitely not Finger Pistol. Also, NOWHERE have we seen Luffy attempt to mimic another of the 6 powers.

[neat agate]

hogback

[halcyon talon]

"... the writer explaining something to us to simply be the character's best understanding"
100% this. thats why people shouldnt jump to conclusions just cause a character has stated something that they think is true

[modest skiff]

One other response to this: I think what you’re saying about air is great. I think it is how Luffy gains mass rather than just stretches in gear 3. He absorbs air and turns it into a solid part of his body, which is why his attacks get much stronger. It’s not like balloon. He’s turning much larger and more massive. As for gear 4, I assume it is flying the same way the thing Sanji does works, just way more intense

[vale current]

You think what luffy did to not let air escape through his mouth is it?

[stuck dragon]

Gear Second is not Soru. Luffy USED Soru as part of it to achieve the high speeds he needs. I'll concede I did not relate anything but Soru and Geppo to Luffy's gears, but I wasn't trying to for any but those. Secondly, I was connecting G4 to Geppo, not G2 to Geppo. Luffy, in G4 Boundman, when he flies, is using a similar techique to Geppo (specifically involving the extreme compression given by G4) in order to achieve flight. Third, nowhere did I say that Luffy wasn't burning up hella energy by using his gears. And finally, while yes, Luffy did show off G2 when we also saw him use Soru, but he did state that the technique itself (which is merely the blood pumping, not Soru) was first conceived after meeting Kuzan.

[junior cape]

Yes I can believe that he just assumes "air in = power". I doubt he's ever put more though into it. If that's how his awakening manifests, then Oda has done a magnificent job stringing us along until now.

[bold gull]

if luffy can see the future, and in the last chapter the use of future sight is clearly referenced, how come he didn't see the cp0 guy interfering? is there any chance that the last panel was more what could have happened and next chapter we'll see luffy avoiding kaido's attack?

[stuck dragon]

Then where did G2 come from? There's no air in there. Similarly, if air in = power in Luffy's eyes, then why does he need G4 when G3 exists? And why would he develop G4, the most complicated/technique involved out of all to go into (at least to start; G2 had pose and pump, G3 had finger bite, blow, shift, G4 had Haki coat, bite, blow, smoke and mirrors, transformed)

[celest oracle]

OK bud, Don't forget to chill.

It's a discussion not a compitition

[stuck dragon]

Take with a grain of salt because there's still argument over whether or not Kaido can actually use FS, but Luffy as far as I can remember needs to be somewhat clearer headed. In the fight, he's going in with the mindset, "shit, I need to make this work, I can't keep going like this, this needs to be a strong ass attack and take Kaido down", which I'd argue is not the calmest of thoughts. Just my two cents as to why he got hit

[bold gull]

it make sense and I don't really think that's what's going on. but once you have an ability like FS in a story, i expect something like this will eventually happen. just wondering if this would be a good moment

[deft dagger]

It could also be cp0 boss being faster with shave

[stuck dragon]

doesn't seem likely to me, just seems like it's distraction, like why would luffy expect cp0 to show up in their 1v1, did katakuri expect flampe?

[grizzled fog]

Because

1. Future sight isn’t completely omnidirectional, he doesn’t see everything
2. It’s not always active. Luffy doesn’t see everything constantly with future sight when he fights, he uses it periodically

[dawn jewel]

People tend to forget the Enel moment where his fruit didn’t work on Luffy because he is MADE of RUBBER, I don’t think Luffy’s fruit is that important to the world government, Its not the fruit that they are talking about.

We got Law’s fruit right there and Its op as hell.

[quick hatch]

Some sense

[tranquil orchid]

It could still be Toki's fruit since they said it's a legend even to them and Toki's been jumping almost 500 years into the future and since Wano is closed borders it means her fruit probably reincarnated and is still in Wano

[dawn jewel]

Could be, but We haven’t seen it or heard from it since Tokki died. Oda is playing mind game with us

[red echo]

YES THATS HIM

[split glacier]

Oda is always misdirecting. He might just be going deep on this one. All these "human rubber Zoans ancient god" blah blah blah theories just sounds silly honestly.

[mint barn]

Tbh I don't think this is true since the WG feared its awakening and gear 4 isn't all that strong yet.

[mint barn]

Flashback for next 1-3 chapters
cp0 will inform WG luffy died
Luffy/kaido awaken
Also I think he will need to awaken to use g5 in a future arc

[deft dagger]

If its like that then oda might be the biggest baiter lmao,also i hav the doubt about it being momo/kaido cause cp0 was talking bout momo's fruit early and talking about its danger and wg even researched on it but its a stretch ig

Also that mayb the reason why the fruit is named fish fish and bm gave it to kaido cause she isnt a person to give kaido such a op fruit she rather just give it to her children she trusts so much

And with vegapunk he went one step ahead and made the artificial one already pre awakened cause if its a fish fruit momo should be a carp rn instead of a dragon

[split glacier]

It still seems like the Gorosei were having multiple convos about a few people. There's a lot of peeps in contention for them to be worrying about it's awakening.

[placid notch]

What do you guys think luffys awakening will involve?

[amber oar]

Converting his surroundings in rubber

[muted ember]

I think he'll be able to become a giant

[zealous grail]

Does anyone wonder where the Toki-Toki no Mi is right now?

[placid notch]

You are following the previous awakenings I see

[placid notch]

Could that be a key at Laugh Tale?

[muted ember]

I've never thought about that

[muted ember]

I think Hiyori got it

[zealous grail]

She was able to throw sea stone needles at Orochi so I'm not sure if she has it.

[abstract pond]

What do you mean?

[zealous grail]

She can carry and touch seastone without being weakened

[muted ember]

Smoker uses seastone. All Oda has to do is tell us only the tip, or the blade was made from seastone

[zealous grail]

That's fair

Wouldn't it be more interesting tho is somehow that fruit made it to a member of Roger's crew (after they dispanded) and that crew member is waiting for the next Pirate King or perhaps that crew member joined the Blackbeard Pirates?

[near cloak]

Why don't people use sea stone more often

[sharp axle]

Orochi is going to beat kaido and save luffy

[zealous grail]

I assume it's a rare metal. The WG restricts its manufacturing etc. from the world for all of it's allied nations and the nations that are generally too poor to ally themselves with the WG don't know how to or where to acquire them. Wano is a bit different but even for Wano, it's probably a rare metal.

Also it may be very hard to work with and require a good deal of time and effort to do.

Because you are right, for the common man, common solider etc. sea stone is practically the only weapon they can use against a good number of DF users (not just Logia after all but others too) so it would make sense if there were more in the world

[near cloak]

Yeah must be it because if you're in the grandline without haki or a devil fruit then sea stone is the answer for tackling these devil fruit users but they're barely around except the marines or Wano

[zealous grail]

We know that Wano itself has a very unique and secret manufacturing ability that enabled them to even make the Poneglyphs so it's not surprising that they can use sea stone and make things with it. In fact, I have a feeling that Wano was probably one of the nations that first figured out how to work with sea stone before any other and that secret slipped out of the country. But as far as the WG goes, there's also the possibility that they just don't want normal soliders to have sea stone in their possession because they don't want the risk of sea stone being stolen so sea stone type gear is only given to say Vice Admiral Class or maybe one or two ranks below that in order to prevent circulation.

[near cloak]

I like how you think, that makes a lot of sense

[zealous grail]

I mean, if I had a specialized weapon that could take down some of the best abilities seen in the world then I'd want to keep that secret hidden rather than out. Because if its open, people can learn how to block it and counter it. If its restricted, its hard to encounter and therefore people aren't able to learn how to best it or adapt to it. There aren't that many devil fruit users in the world (compared to the general population) and therefore it makes no sense to essentially give everyone weapons specifically designed to defeat df users.

Also if you think about it, Kaido made this mistake himself now. Because by forcing Luffy and Kidd to be sea stone handcuffs and work in the prison, he basically gave Luffy and Kidd time to adapt to sea stone so they are no longer weakened from it. Instead of Luffy now collapsing from just touching sea stone (like back in Alabasta), Luffy can now deal with it and simply can't use his rubber abilities but can still fight etc.

[kindred trellis]

My theory on the next chapters
Cp0 guy gets bodied by Kaido but still manages to damage Kaido a bit as he is exhausted
Mesnwhile the remaining strawhats will go up the roof and fight Kaido as they are the 9 shadows toki was mentioning. How Zoro is able to still fight i can't explain yet but maybe Marco heals him or something for a short amount of time. I would say it'd be similar to how the strawhats defeated Oz back in Thrillee Bark

[fathom matrix]

someone pointed out Zoro sitting on a gravestone has Kaido's Vivre card number, and Ryuma both in one piece and in monsters beheaded a dragon.

So Zoro could get the killing blow

[somber sphinx]

Seastone bullets, seastone nails were all seen in Wano so you right

[zealous grail]

Zoro will sitout the battle. I think Zoro defeated his dragon already (King) as King ate a dragon dragon type ancient devil fruit and was a creature that basically could adapt to anything. Zoro is not Ryuma. Zoro instead walks the path of Asura (stated himself in Enies Lobby) and many of his techniques are about slashing through Hell. In that case King, the creature who could survive Hell itself (because of it's adaptive nature) was Zoro's greatest enemy in Wano. That is my reasoning as to why Zoro would not kill Kaido.

[glad raft]

Robin fruit must be special

[zealous grail]

The only thing I would contest is this. CP0 wouldn't damage Kaido because the WG itself wanted to protect Kaido. CP0 will probably not even get bodied by Kaido. I believe Kaido will swing at the agent but the agent will run away and escape successfully.

Personally my theory for the next chapters would be:
CP0 escaping Kaido and more Kaido flashbacks
Kaido Backstory in full
Remaining Strawhats battle Kaido whilst waiting for Luffy
Luffy returns and the next part is dependent on two things:

1. If Luffy's fruit is indeed the fruit that the Gorosei were worried about (I know people thing that could be the case but... I'm not sure). If so then perhaps a new hidden ability will exist that will defeat Kaido
2. A generic awakening of the devil fruit combined with his CoC and Gear 4th will finish off Kaido

[fathom matrix]

do you mean special paramecia or just special as in interesting/unique?

[zealous grail]

You know who's fruit is actually pretty special... Brooks. Like how he can turn into ghost form, resist Big Mom, show off illusions and even the ice slashes that he can do. Those are very unique. I feel as tho Brooks' DF has something else hidden in it that could change the story a bit

[primal cargo]

You are aware that Wano is confirmed to be the only place in the world where seastone is made/found ?
The WG has a good supply of seastone because they've been trading with Orochi, but I don't think we've seen too many people use seastone other than them. So the reason why so few people use seastone would be because they simply can't get any.

[zealous grail]

I knew they exported something rare but I couldn't remember if it was sea stone or not. Thanks for that. Though it still confirms all the assumptions I had about Seastone in general, that Wano knew how to use it and mold it like no other and that it's a rare metal that no one could obtain and that the WG kept under wraps

[zealous grail]

Also, my other reason for why people can't get sea stone (specifically more criminals etc.) was more in the fact that the common solider wouldn't be given a seastone weapon because of how dangerous the stone itself is and because the WG wants to restrict it's supply as well in order to prevent thievery etc. Which I still think is viable because even if they get sea stone from Wano, they still wouldn't want it going to the common soldier

[primal cargo]

Yeah that makes sense

[zealous grail]

But yeah, thanks for adding the fact about sea stone itself originating from Wano. So many little details in this 1000+ chapter series

[gilded willow]

what if luffy real akuma no mi is imagination imagination no mi, he is rubber because they told him that he is made of rubber, and when he use hawk rifle, he can make fire because he thinks of ace, and with g4 skills the same thing

[zealous grail]

Well Oda did say there will be a physical treasure awaiting the strawhats so I'm guessing that's what it is. Could be 800 year old aged beef. That'd make Luffy happy XD

[iron lion]

is that confirmed within the manga? My understanding was that it was simply the largest exporter of seastone prism, not the sole source within the world.

[primal cargo]

It says in 924 that seastone was "born in this country", not sure what that means exactly but I think we're supposed to understand it that way ?
There might another line somewhere about this but I can't remember precisely

[hardy shoal]

Bet luffy awakens his devil fruit

After the k.o

[kindred trellis]

The only reason why i think ruffys fruit is not a different fruit but indeed the gomu gomu no is because eneru had no effect on him which wouldn't be the case if it's some kind of other fruit

[magic hollow]

I think the power to stretch time and space, that shd be a worthy legendary fruti that the world govt is after

[subtle holly]

what moves can luffy do with gomu gomu till now

[placid notch]

That's a tad bit too much

[magic hollow]

why not...punch soo hard that it'll stretch Kaidos face through all time zones

[placid notch]

ok....

[magic hollow]

jk bro

[swift panther]

Roger was too early for the one piece. Maybe it's a sapling or some kind of creature

[magic hollow]

cant wait for next chapter, unless they show someting else 😦

[swift panther]

I bet on Luffy awakening

[magic hollow]

umm how bro hes out cold ig

[swift panther]

Why not yo

[magic hollow]

tho cp0's death confrimed!

[primal cargo]

A sapling I like that

[swift panther]

Maybe a sapling that grows new devil fruits?

Maybe that would explain modern fruits like baby 5's

[pseudo zinc]

So I think Luffys awakening will be based around vulcanization. https://www.britannica.com/technology/vulcanization which would basically make him immune to all attacks and would explain why he's had a natural resistance to damage (especially blunt damage) throught the story

Like with armament haki he kinda already archives this but the vulcanization will be the next step cause he can still get hurt by other people that use armament

[swift panther]

You really think oda is that into science?

If he was, Kizaru blows the earth

[sick nexus]

[pseudo zinc]

I mean look of Zuneisha

Also Vulcanization is pretty common these days not that much of a foreign concept to most

[deft dagger]

He does but op science is way different i mean can u imagine going to moon with just a flying ship like enel did the moon is that close so op world has similarities and difference from our world same with science

[pseudo zinc]

Exactly like Oda can add his own twist to it. Like I'm I'm 100% sure vulcanization is gonna be a thing twisted up to fit the OP universe

[split glacier]

Some smooth brains for sure that don't understand that there's a #spoilers channel...

[analog shell]

You can’t reply lol

[split glacier]

Spoilers will pop up when spoilers are available. People asking for spoilers every week are either dumb or willfully ignorant. It's like when a chapter releases on Friday but people still confused what day it drops.

[pure raven]

Anyone thinking that luffy df infact not a rubber fruit something else since kaido also noticed the diffrence in their fight and also since elders may be wG change that df name rubber just to cover up the true ability of the df may be luffy will get all three type of df powers from just one df

Luffy awakening is dragon bruh the D true form as we know in Japan mythology there is the dragon king which can take the form of humans which is the god of the sea remember what Rayleigh said can you rule this sea

[sly panther]

finally catching up on the manga and i have dumb theories

[weak arrow]

if you're not gonna post a serious theory, then dont post in this channel at all. Just giving you a head's up.

[sly panther]

I'm not just here to shitpost, but one piece is full of wild stuff so it's hard to know where the line is drawn

My theories are along the lines of Vegapunk/Germa's cloning technology, and how they might affect the story in ways beyond just Kuma himself

[weak arrow]

Well if you believe in it and have reasons and evidence behind it it's fine. For example some person here thinks Imu is Mihawk and I think that's crazy, but they post seriously, thus it's allowed

[sly panther]

So just to make sure I have my thoughts right, Kuma was a warlord, who was secretly working with the Revolutionaries, and was then found out, modified, and then cloned to be used as a weapon for the government, right?

Judge used to work with Vegapunk, and seemed to specialize / focus his efforts towards cloning, and mass reproduction to create an army. The work on Kuma, however, seems to be from Vegapunk himself, which still makes sense if the two were collaborators. Vegapunk has been name dropped for hundreds of chapters, and we still haven't so much as gotten a glimpse of his face. One possibility here is that Vegapunk has the same appearance as a character we already know.

[pure raven]

their replication of df work too momos df

Yo do you think the yonko system will be abolished or something ? After this

[sly panther]

Now this could stretch on as crackpot as 'Vegapunk is joyboy/imu, and Luffy is a clone of him,' but that's just kinda mashing theories together and hoping they stick
At the very least, right now I'm thinking someone is a clone of Vegapunk, and when we finally see his face it's going to be someone we know already.

[pure raven]

nope since vegapunk got a birth place right where franky was

[sly panther]

The fact that cloning technology was introduced to this series, and so far has only been used for a single government weapon feels... odd. Like, again not saying this will be a joyboy/imu level reveal, but I think something else will be done with it.

[abstract pond]

If Vegapunk is the clone of someone else we know, it should be someone old >50

[sly panther]

it could also get as weird as Tashigi/Kuina stuff, with us learning more about Wado Ichimonji and the fact that Oda clearly has something in mind introducing someone who looks just like Zoro's childhood friend. her being a clone would also explain why she doesn't know Zoro, and Vegapunk working in the marines and Tashigi being tied to a powerful commander from the start could all work together for that, but I'll admit that's more throwing stuff at the wall than a real intricate theory

[sly panther]

oh I'm saying some character is a clone of Vegapunk, not the other way around.

[abstract pond]

Just for curiosity, who would be your guess?

[sly panther]

also full disclosure, I'm not fearing spoilers but I haven't fully caught up on Wano and haven't actually read the relevant chapters for Zoro stuff so I'm not defending this one too heavily atm, just kinda had that thought and realized I couldn't think of any reason it couldn't be true.

[sly panther]

I don't have any real solid picks, it just feels like a very One Piece reveal. he's been name-dropped since well before the timeskip, and while Oda likes to silhouette characters for a while (Ryokugyu), this has been going on for a long while for someone who's supposedly really important

and I don't think it's a coincidence that, since he's been name dropped, we've learned that modifying and creating copies of one person is in his power, and his collaborator is known for creating an actual clone army.

I don't really think it's Luffy, but the giant straw hat we saw Imu with, the fact that Shanks seems to be convening with the Elders about Luffy himself... they're clearly foreshadowing some kind of detail about Luffy that even the readers don't know about, with what we know of his past. It could just be about the devil fruit, but the idea of him being Imu/Joyboy clone is fun, even if a bit of a stretch

Clone stuff adds a wild element to theories. Maybe Dragon's a clone of Vegapunk, and Luffy's a clone of one of the others. Dragon being the 'father' in that he took responsibility in dragging him away from the lab before creating a revolutionary army to take down the world government and the secrets they're hiding.

Oda did tease about Luffy's mom in an SBS, though that could've easily been deflecting what he realized was a really obvious question readers would have (why have we not even heard of her yet?)

I'm guessing we won't see too many more feats from him until he and Zoro have to fight. Though right now I'm not really sure why they would, with the warlord system being abolished.

I mean they could always just choose to duel because they're itching for a fight, and Mihawk's long-time rival's down an arm

...though, down an arm, and then became an emperor

...but he became an emperor on speaking terms with the Five Elders, which yeah reminds me that I'm pretty sure Shanks already knows a secret about the government that Luffy will be vehemently against, and they'll have to fight because Shanks believes the most peaceful path is everyone living in blissful ignorance while Luffy can't bear to hide the truth

[restive mirage]

Luffy's fruit is actually God's natural enemy. He resisted Enel because his body counters God.

[unique cargo]

What do you guys think about Mythical Zoan Sun Wukong fruit Luffy

[tall flint]

What if imu sama has the power to see the future or has been to laugh tale and decided to order the killing of luffy

[sly panther]

well yeah, and Whitebeard and Shanks had a talk not long before Marineford.

[restive mirage]

Shanks is a WG plant. He attacked Kaido to get WB killed.

[sly panther]

didn't we hear something about that talk between shanks and whitebeard not going super well?

[gilded sierra]

Maybe luffy awakning will be like xman Sebastian Shaw Kinetic Energy Absorption

[sly panther]

like, not awful, but like some agreement wasn't reached?

[tall flint]

He didn't go to laugh tale shanks

[restive mirage]

Luffy fruit is actually a rubber logia.

[sly panther]

Shanks holds Kaido back, comes in only after Whitebeard falls, and then says 'I'm here to stop this war' after Whitebeard threatens them with the idea of one. and Shanks also has a foot in with the elders, and probably waited to have a talk with them about Luffy until Luffy had actually made a big enough name for himself to contend with the other emperors.

I think the idea that Shanks has been tied to WG makes sense, and he probably has been for a while now.

[tall flint]

It'll be cool if luffys fruit is like a different kind to the standard 3.
Like legendary type with power of all 3 types. Maybe BB has one too

[restive mirage]

Yeah he's the rat king red haired dirty Shanks.

[sly panther]

He's painted as an Emperor because he genuinely is strong, but also so the government has a secret arm to manipulate events with. similar to the warlords, but with that fact hidden from the rest of the world.

A terrifying 'threat' to the world government, who conveniently no one really seems to know anything about...

I'm guessing Shanks tried to bring Whitebeard onto his side, because he didn't want Whitebeard to have to die too, but after talks went south abandoned him to his fate.

[restive mirage]

Strange how Kaido immediately teamed up with Big Mom when they met. It is almost as if Kaido would have done the same with WB (another former crewmate) if they met. Also, think about this. Why would Kaido, a beast who absolutely detests unfair fights, ambush WB?

[sly panther]

also not trying to go all in on everyone being a clone all the time but if Shanks is a secret top grade weapon of the world government, him being a clone of someone powerful would also work

a clone meant not to hole up in a lab, or the sacred land, but to explore the world and extend the government's reach further

[restive mirage]

Shanks cried next to laugh tale because the story unfolded on an unfortunate truth for him. He is the antagonist.

[sly panther]

if that is the case though, I wonder how far back the clone would've been made. was he an Imu clone, planted into Roger's crew, and used to take him down even back then? did the real shanks die sometime between Roger's death and meeting Luffy, and the clone just went along with the reputation of 'former crewmate of the pirate king, though few know much about him?'

again, these theories are really out there and I'm making a bunch of leaps, but just by introducing clones along with mysterious powerful characters... it brings a lot of ideas to the table

[restive mirage]

Shanks being an Imu clone that poisoned Roger to his early death would be pretty cool

[sly panther]

like, if one previous light extinguished was Roger, and the way they brought him to his execution was manipulation.

oh right, incurable disease, top secret (vegapunk-level) poison

just saying the government having a secret weapon in the form of a pirate has a lot you can do with that

[restive mirage]

Shanks cried because he was the one who poisoned Roger. It wasn't intentional. His body does it on his own. He's not human.

[sly panther]

hmm I'd be disappointed if Germa was just supposed to be the same as Shanks. I think, if he is a clone used this way, he chose to do what he did. He believed what he was doing was right, even if it hurt him to take Roger down.

[restive mirage]

I like that

[sly panther]

maybe some implant that would self destruct if he went too far against the world government's wishes, but I don't want it to just be brainwashing/inhuman

[restive mirage]

And now he does the same to Luffy. Luffy's next enemy is a dirty pirate. He will get poisoned which triggers Chopper's dream to come to fruition

[sly panther]

Shanks isn't a robot, even in chapter one we were shown that he's a person who wants to end conflict. even when upset, he allowed them to hit him and move on.

that's what he's doing even now

he will fight to prevent a rebellion, he'll fight to prevent a war, because even if the truth is painful, he believes that the lives lost in the war would be a greater loss than the status quo being maintained.

he'll choose to guard the government's secrets for that reason, and him being a clone would better explain why he's a pirate and not just an admiral.

[restive mirage]

I still think Imu's power is the ultimate conqueror's haki. Literally everything, even stuff, bends to his will. He has no fruit powers. The fruits exist originally to counter Imu.

[sly panther]

oh and in regards to weird clone stuff I guess there's also Weevil

but he seems more like a Moria zombie thing than a vegapunk/germa clone

[pure raven]

What if what’s happening currently in this chapter is kaido using fs

[restive mirage]

Using FS he knew Cp0 would come?

[merry sparrow]

I feel like if he knew cp0 was coming he wouldn’t be devastated when Luffy is downed lol

Bc luffy was brought down after he was distracted like what happened w oden

If Kaido saw that coming I feel like he would’ve stopped it. I think what’s gonna happen next is kaido fuckin snaps on the cp0 guy and we have a flashback

[restive mirage]

True. I wonder how strong Cp0 boss actually is?

I think he's above toppi roppo but below YC commanders. He took out two enemies at toppi roppo level, Izo and Drake.

[amber oar]

He beat Drake with great difficulty, he must be in the same league as Sanji or even a bit below

[merry sparrow]

I’d assume they’re $700M-1B bounty tier at most. So light work for Kaido probably

[restive mirage]

I think Cp0 boss is about as strong as Jinbei but Jinbei probably wins

[merry sparrow]

I’d say that’s a safe bet

[heady parrot]

yeah that sounds fair to me too. high dif for jinbei but he’d come on top in the end.

[merry sparrow]

I feel like Kaido’s flash back will probably be hella depressing. Like he came across his df really early and changed physically and was shunned by his fam for who he became or some shit

[heady parrot]

jinbei seems to be somewhere in the gap between commander and tobi roppo

[merry sparrow]

Like they’re gonna definitely do the tragic bad guy not bad guy type backstory

[bitter kraken]

Didn’t BM say she gave kaido his devil fruit

[merry sparrow]

Oh? I could’ve missed that

[sand sail]

Big Mom gave it to him when he was 21, after God Valley

He basically went up from there

[sly panther]

ok yeah after tossing a bunch of clone theories at the wall, 'Shanks is Imu's arm, a clone who can extend their influence past Marijoa' feels the most right so far

[slender fulcrum]

Theory for next chapters => Luffy will be left for dead, Kaido will attack the CP0 dude who will try to flee, they'll both crash into wano and fight there while Luffy will wake up and see the carnage. Awakening in rage :p

[wind raven]

i dont think cp0 agent would be able to escape from onigashima

[pale laurel]

The CP0 agent can fly, but he might not be able to escape Kaido

[wind raven]

Kaido can also fly

[wind raven]

But faster

[frozen roost]

By flying do you mean that air step thing

[pale laurel]

yes

[lunar bone]

Luffy wasn’t even shown to be knocked out. He’s gonna be good

[wind raven]

Bruh luffy took arguably the strongest attack in the series head on

You can count the number of people who can defend against a thunder bagua

On two hands excluding dead characters

Like luffy is definitely knocked out

[abstract pond]

I don't like the idea of Shanks betraying Luffy for peace/balance/etc. That's like straight betraying also Roger and his will, all his crewmates and himself.

I just don't see it possible in any way

[signal hearth]

Yo guys

[halcyon talon]

yoo

[fathom matrix]

Luffy vs Kaido might end at the flower capital where it all started.

Kaido could be tired, he sees his fortress destroyed, his men defeated and he's just done. And Luffy pissed too

It's just 1 final battle, both in base form. Kaido uses a Thunder Bagua, Luffy either pulls out red roc, supreme kong gun, something, but instead of Kaido knocking him out, Luffy gets that KO

[split glacier]

Saying he's a bit below Sanji is way too high.

[signal hearth]

U think kaido is a yandere for luffy. In the last panel he looked torn when luffy was injured

[halcyon talon]

he already flirted with him few pages back so maybe but seriously, he was probably more torn by the fact that it was bowler hat guy's distraction that led him to being able to knock luffy out at that moment

[halcyon talon]

i like the idea of the fight finishing where it began

[pure raven]

dudes looking to get k.o n someone took it away

[steady prism]

Well Kaido has been wanting to die pretty often in the series. I think he has survivor's guilt and what happened with Oden, Luffy, and (maybe) Rocks in Godvalley. Maybe he feels survivor's guilt from winning unfairly....idk

[wind raven]

I like this theory that kaido is depressed and wants a grandiose death because of what happened to his captain and how he was removed from history. Possibly the strongest character to be introduced till now and some decades later no one knows about him so that’s why kaido wants to go out in a way that the world remembers him

[steady prism]

It would definitely explain his drinking habits too

[wind raven]

Also what if Kaido was forced to chose between big mom or kaido like he is forced to make a decision between his captain or his close friend, maybe big mom betrayed rocks at god valley and kaido sided with big mom and regrets his decision but still respects big mom for giving him his devil fruit

[pure raven]

Gear 5th is luffy awakening, most likely the same as string and dough

“Tiger man” or whatever transformation expected for gear 5th will most likely just be another one of gear 4th

[steady prism]

Big Mom made it sound like she saved his life via giving him a devil fruit.....how could this fish-fish devil fruit "save" Kaido? Was he falling?

Also, it bothers me how his devil fruit's a "fish-fish fruit"

[wind raven]

Ah the Pokemon fruit model: magikarp

[steady prism]

OMG Oda is a genius. I choose to believe that theory from now on

[wind raven]

Yep kaido devil fruit had always been foreshadowed but he introduced it into pokemon

[steady prism]

going back to the idea that Kaido sided with Big Mom at Godvalley, when Big Mom and Kaido made an alliance, I remember Big Mom saying she'll stab Kaido in the back but I don't remember Kaido saying the same thing...

[wind raven]

I think it wasn’t “saving his life” but rather “owning linlin a lifelong debt” which could mean that the fish fish fruit is what allowed him to become this strong.

[wind raven]

Did she say something like that?? Considering her character it wouldn’t be surprising if she had instigated a rebellion against rock on godvalley.

[steady prism]

Yes she said so when she was talking to Candy on the outskirts of Onigashima. If they found a hint, they'll stab him in the back to get the One Piece

[wind raven]

Just needed another reason to dislike big mom lol

[modest skiff]

Right, she owes him for life, not that she saved his life. But we don’t actually know what happened so maybe she did save his life. But she never says she saved his life

[steady prism]

I keep forgetting how young Kaido was when he was with Rocks. He was like 15 years old at the Godvalley incident. Why would Kaido need "power" at Godvalley? Was it really just mutiny that formed against Rocks himself? Maybe there was a resource at Godvalley that Rocks wanted to destroy/utilize but the rest of the crew (that's on BigMom and Kaido's side) wanted to utilize/destroy?

Obviously there was something more significant at Godvalley beyond just a celestial dragon to have Roger and Garp team up

[wind raven]

Kaido wasn’t 15 at god valley he was 15 when he first met linlin

[steady prism]

Ah, mb

[wind raven]

I think it was more of a power move, like rocks wanted to rule world and what better way to send a message than to attack one of the places the “gods” of the world reside.

[steady prism]

but then why would Roger feel the need to join in? His participation is what confuses me. Did the "voice of the world" warn him of the dangers of what Rocks was doing at Godvalley?

was there a "tree" there that had some importance?

lol, imagine Yggdrasil being at Godvalley...

[wind raven]

Because roger is very much like luffy, he doesn’t care about the marines or the pirates, in his view what rocks was doing or what rocks crew was like was evil

So he wanted to stop rocks

But your question is pretty interesting as to what would cause roger to fight rocks.

[gloomy heath]

I want Burgess to get either Jozu’s diamond fruit or something that grants him something similar in durability, then for Burgess and Shiryu to 2v2 Sanji and Zoro. Sanji usually fights tankier opponents in the bigger fights in the series, like Pearl, Jabra the Tekkai specialist, being paired (admittedly losing) against Full Body Vergo etc etc. whereas Zoro will fight the swordsman as he always does. But the real challenge will be Zoro and Sanji working together, the true final boss. Shiryu’s ability can let him cloak other people too right? And Burgess having diamond durability satisfies the final exchange between Mr 1 and Zoro “so are you going to cut diamond next?” “Don’t be ridiculous” or something in that spirit. Would start as a 2v2 ofc but when they successfully cooperate they will break into their 1v1s. But I just cant see any other way ever since Shiryu got his powers.

[zealous grail]

The meat needs to age for another 20 years. Rogers was disappointed and so he left Laugh Tale.

[vale current]

But Zoro will be able to cut anything even without specific fights imo

[vale current]

Wasn't "early" bc Poseidon wasn't born yet that's needed?

[steady prism]

I agree that Roger and Luffy are very similar. That's why I think there must have been something else in Godvalley that compelled Roger to go stop Rocks. There must have been something else at Godvalley for Rocks' pirate crew to fracture the way it did.

I think you're onto something, BigMom+Kaido might have betrayed Rocks and that's what triggered Kaido's depression and what triggered Whitebeard to be obsessed with having "one big happy family". Maybe Roger believed that if Rocks got a hold of this resource and utilized/destroyed it, it would spell the end of the world as they know it.

[zealous grail]

Yep. Maybe it needs some sea king style seasoning as a last garnish XD

I'm just saying, it would be really funny (kind of enraging) but also really funny if every event in the world all tied to making the ultimate meat dish and to consume that is what allows Luffy to be the Pirate King

[pure raven]

love that theory man really well thought out

[halcyon talon]

d best D

[zealous grail]

If you're talking about the ultimate meat one, thanks. It would be so dumb and yet so like this series ngl

[ornate pivot]

Theory that the fruit that the wg said that they changed the name of is actually luffys fruit. In the latest chapter kaido says "he changes the projectile on a whim, this isn't the qualities of rubber". Hm 🤔

Any thoughts on this? This isn't my theory btw

[vale current]

Good question. There could've been a tree in God Valley island the sorts of Tree of Adam, Knowledge

[zealous grail]

Okay so I just realized I interpreted something wrong. Either that or the Sea Kings were talking about Luffy. But on Rogers last journey (with Oden and mind you after Momo was born) the Sea Kings talked about 2 rulers who are soon to be born in 10 years time, one of which is obv. Shirahoshi. Is the other Luffy (as Joyboy's successor) or is there another ruler we have yet to meet. I always thought the other ruler was Momo but that's not the case because Momo was already born so there's another ruler that needs to exist (or Luffy)

[ornate pivot]

Sorry, but luffy is #1 by default. He's literally the most loveable mc

[zealous grail]

But while Luffy wants to be the Pirate King, he doesn't want to conquer or rule anything. He doesn't want to be someone important in that sense so I don't think the Sea Kings are referring to Luffy

[vale current]

There's a lot of theories actually. The one hotly discussed is the mythical Sun wukong fruit theory look it up

[zealous grail]

I mean the whole Sun Wukong theory always existed even before the WG talked about a legendary fruit. So many parallels have been drawn between Luffy and Sun Wukong but then again you could say the same about many different anime characters like Goku etc.

[ornate pivot]

Ye i see, just that kaido mentioning that luffys attack didn't have the qualities of rubber kind of connected the dot, though it still probably isn't it, I'd like to think it is. Idk, im excited for the reveal.

[halcyon talon]

oh was momo already born at that point? youre right... so that rules out momo being one of the kings, interesting

[vale current]

The only thing left is to explain the electricity immunity (thunder calamity from the sun wukong novel) but not fully coherent

[zealous grail]

Yeah cuz Oden already had Momo during his travels with Whitebeard. Which was before he went with Rogers. So Momo isn't the Ruler the Sea Kings are referring to. Also the Sea Kings thought it was strange that Luffy could hear them so I don't think Luffy was the ruler they are waiting for either. I think another Ruler will be revealed.

[wet perch]

Koby is about the right age

[vale current]

Wdym? Shirley's prophecy that Luffy will destroy the fishman island is related to the awaited ruler isn't it

[zealous grail]

I didn't say Madam Shirley's. I said the Sea King's prophecy. They also predicted the birth of shirahoshi and the birth of another ruler too. Go to the chapters or the anime episode during Roger's journey

[zealous grail]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCel1Sh9gok