manga-theories

[lime cape]

That wouldn't explain 0 damage to electricity

[hallow fiber]

lmao tag the theory

[tawdry bramble]

I think Luffy’s fruit is something along the lines of a Joy fruit and it’s ability is to bring Joy. It does turn him fully rubber because what he wanted when he ate it was to be bigger so he could join shanks. He even says he’s never been happier since he ate the fruit.

Eventually his awakening will allow him to bring joy to other people and all of the people who ate smiles will finally smile sincerely (probably while crying)

[normal plume]

Speaking of Joy, i'm going to argue that I really think Joboy is a giant because of a few reasons:

1. the large SH locked in the vault in Reverie that Imu has some connection with so its likely from Joyboy's time where Imu is probably also from

2. the apology to FMI from Joyboy and Noah there. I think Joyboy built Noah and coated it himself or with other giants to get the FMI citizens to the surface- how else can it be built unless a giant or a team of giants built it. But for whatever reason he couldn't keep his promise to take them all up so carved his apology to them on a poneglyph in stead

3. this is a weaker argument but the connection with Zunisha an ancient who Joyboy came across when Zunisha was a baby and Zunisha may have become like Joyboys pet- him as a baby would maybe a good size for a giants pet. I think even among the giants Joyboy may have been quite huge. Also lifespan wise they are both ancient and would live several centuries so they probably knew each other almost a century or so. At any rate their connection is clear- Joyboy being a giant is not necessary but would just be appropriate given their sizes and lifespans

4. Giants are allies to the ancient kingdom, and based on how the information is slowly unraveling as we get deeper in the NW, the next stop Elbalf will probably drop big hints as to who Joyboy was. Not only because its one of the last arcs but also because of the lifespan for giants- its not such distant past for them the void century. We haven't linked Joyboy to FMI, or Wano, or any skyisland- given the other supports I think it will be revealed he was a hero of the giants.

5. Zunisha coming to Wano I would argue may also be indicative of Joyboy being a giant. As Zunisha can listen to certain people from the Kozuki lineage going back to the void century and we know Wano and Elbalf were allied to the ancient kingdom. likely Joyboy (from Elbalf) and a Kozuki ancestor were close friends before the void and when Zunisha was a baby. So him coming now to help Momo may somewhat also be indicative of his past and Joyboys relations and origins

seperately the supports aren't that strong but they build a plausible argument in combination

[hallow fiber]

Bruh really enjoyed reading this istg

[normal plume]

haha can you imagine Odens ancestor and Joyboy sipping tea by the sea with baby Zunisha swimming about

[hallow fiber]

Ukw momo is remaining till the end

Cuz oden mentioned that he is the one who will rise and bring dawn to the new world

This might be it after this arc we just might see elbaf after it will be lodestar

And then final one piece arv

Oda mentioned he will be writing the biggest fight in manga history

[violet ember]

good theory or maybe he can be a lunarian(like king)
they are known to be monsters that can survive in any environment
and they are also hunted by WG so it could be true
btw It is just an assumption and I have no single prove for that😂😂

[hallow fiber]

And end of wano will be just 2 percent then the elbaf will gain 50 and one piece arc will cover rest

[hallow fiber]

Lmao not lunarian forshre

[violet ember]

but why not??

[hallow fiber]

Bruh i think kaido back story gonna be the turning point

[hexed sky]

how many chapters do u guys think till kaido is defeated?

[hallow fiber]

Bruh tbh a couple 10 15 chaps would be enough

[violet ember]

two to four maybe

[hallow fiber]

In my opinion*

Kaido and luffy main fight has just started pickinh up pace

[normal plume]

I think Wano will go on in the anime the whole year

[hallow fiber]

Also lufy said will keep punching till I run out of energy so a few chaps will be enough for kaido

[violet ember]

I think Kaido's backstory will mainly focus on the rocks pirates and kaid

[hallow fiber]

Then as kaido dies he remembers rocks and. A face reveal of the whole rocks pirates takes place

[hallow fiber]

Yes agree with u

[normal plume]

Kaidou backstory will probably happen so another 20 chaps min I would think

[hallow fiber]

Lmao it might just end in august ig

[strange robin]

i hope not

[normal plume]

not with Toeis pacing haha

[hallow fiber]

Cuz red is around corner

[strange robin]

luffy should beat kaido next chapter or after that

[violet ember]

luffy already said that it is his last gear 4th
so its either gonna be like what happened with katakuri and he is gonna try to save some time to recover his haki or it is awaking

[normal plume]

well given BM's defeat its possible within 10 chaps- was not expecting that so fast

[hallow fiber]

Yes even if manga people are not satisfied the anime will be savage

[hallow fiber]

Bruh queen and king were defeated too fast

[normal plume]

its okay One Pace will take care of Toeis stretching out everything when they get there

[hallow fiber]

Yess i think oda might not introduce a complete new gear

But just a subversion of gear 4th

[strange robin]

i think he could but in a future arc

[hallow fiber]

Point

[normal plume]

yepp King and Queen too- though in hindsight it may not seem so fast. Can't wait for the arc to be done to watch it together

[violet ember]

how tf is he gonna introduce a new gear if his haki is gone

[normal plume]

its almost 200 eps already

[strange robin]

do you think zoro will get black blades and learn advanced armament next arc?

[hallow fiber]

Lmao eren might just tell oda to somehow make luffy regain his haki

[violet ember]

Toei's pacing is fuked up lol

[hallow fiber]

Zoro is at his top

[hallow fiber]

Agreed look still waiting for rooftop dude

[strange robin]

zoro's next opponent should be an admiral

[violet ember]

nope

[hallow fiber]

2 more EPs seems like an year to me istg

[violet ember]

to early for black blades

[hallow fiber]

See every main antagonist's right hand will be zoro's opponent

[violet ember]

maybe advanced haki but not black blades

[hallow fiber]

Agrreed

Oda might givd him black blades before final arc

[strange robin]

zoro should also learn future sight

[hallow fiber]

Naah i don't see that comin

[violet ember]

maybe in BB or shanks arc

[hallow fiber]

At this moment the straw hats are on thei best

[strange robin]

if sanji get a new raid suit from franky or judge, he would be too strong

[hallow fiber]

Shanks arc will be started in junr ig

[strange robin]

any theory on sanji's future power ups?

[hallow fiber]

Red again is the reasom

[violet ember]

not important for me since zoro is always gonna be stronger😂😂

[hallow fiber]

A new jambe

[normal plume]

in act 1 they added flashbacks from the PREVIOUS ep after having such a long recap. It actually needs so much help

[strange robin]

sanji should learn future sight

[violet ember]

its BB arc then

[strange robin]

i think the next main villain is bb

[hallow fiber]

Bb?

[normal plume]

you don't think BB will enter this arc at the end?

[strange robin]

nah

[violet ember]

I think it would be more useful for GOD USSOP to learn

[strange robin]

usopp and brook needs to learn armament haki

[violet ember]

he will

[normal plume]

theres some crazy theories with Ussop and Elbalf

[hallow fiber]

GOD USOPPT SUPREMACY GUYSSS

[normal plume]

@hallow fiber BB = blackbeard

[strange robin]

usopp should get mjolnir

[normal plume]

https://youtu.be/wTBaDDrSY1o

[hallow fiber]

Ohh lol yes bb just might arrive

[violet ember]

he will go to wano to hunt kaido's df

[strange robin]

i hope not

[normal plume]

I think Marco's fruit would be a better fit for him

[hallow fiber]

Luffy will defeat bb and the gorosei will be sure that luffy is the destined d bou

[strange robin]

i want bb to get a zoan df that we've never seen before

[normal plume]

to heal all the extra damage he gets

[hallow fiber]

Elbaf gonna be usopps arc

Cuz the hype usopp has for giants

[strange robin]

do you think luffy and bb will team up to beat imu

[violet ember]

he already absorbs all the damage he gets so why heal it??

[hallow fiber]

Naaah

[violet ember]

nope

[hallow fiber]

Bb can make the offer but luffy wont accept

[strange robin]

luffy's haki will be the key to defeating bb

[hallow fiber]

Cha ace died bcuz of bb

[violet ember]

but I think Coby and Luffy would team up to kill BB

[normal plume]

absorbing damage is different from healing right

[hallow fiber]

Dope the series should end with pirate king luffy figuring with fleet admiral coby

[normal plume]

like how Zoro absorbed all of Luffys damage after thriller bark- that was no healing just absorbing

[violet ember]

yeah but If he already absorbs it like nothing happened then why he needs to heal it then

[strange robin]

the final war will be after laugh tale

i think zoro will be the first straw hat to achieve his dream

[normal plume]

haha funny you said nothing happened when I said so. I think his body feels it, remember the fight where his chest got burnt with Ace

[strange robin]

he just have to leave on a small boat and go challenge mihawk

[violet ember]

he feels it but there is no actual damage i think

[normal plume]

his body was this scarred after i think- though Toei has been inconsistent with injuries a lot

[modest skiff]

Guys, this channel isn’t for general discussion. Please keep it to theories discussion, not just random chit chat

[violet ember]

plot twist
someone is gonna become the greatest swordman before zoro

[strange robin]

what's your theory on the gorosei swordsman?

[hallow fiber]

He might be quite experienced

And might have fought the previous gen joyboy ig

[strange robin]

my theory is zoro will fight the gorosei swordsman in the final war

[hallow fiber]

Yohohoho who will brook fight

Brook be like imu sama pants misetemoratte yoroshi des😂

[violet ember]

I think that the gorosei are members of the WG that got immortality through the ope ope no mi and that they are from the void century

[strange robin]

maybe

[hallow fiber]

https://tenor.com/view/brook-yohohoho-gif-11276760

[normal plume]

ah in contradiction I think they are the best of the celestials picked by Imu to be his puppets every few decades and get replaced twice a century or so. The only reason is why would Imu bother to use the ope ope no mi on those 5, they aren't friends just servants.

[amber oar]

The way the elders talk about the "legendary devil fruit" makes me think they're just regularly old.

Like, they're well informed on virtue of being the highest known authorities in the world, but they still don't know about some stuff

Im, on the other hand, could be immortal

[strange robin]

i hope im is not weak

[hallow fiber]

Bruh theory shit i just fckin believe thizss

[hallow fiber]

Bruh shit quite the theory u presented

[violet ember]

yeah but they maybe strong as fuk

[normal plume]

here is a theory supporting your theory that they are immortal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdSVHBhV2ks

[pale laurel]

The idea that the five elders are 800 years old is, in my opinion, debunked because they had the hidden devil fruit conversation. They didn't know why the WG had hidden a particular devil fruit

[violet ember]

maybe it was just im sama orders that they didn't know why

[pale laurel]

that is possible. However, it sounds like a convoluted reason to me. It's simpler to assume that they are just younger than 800

[slate mirage]

Yeah, it's debunked at this point sadly

It was a pretty cool theory

[normal plume]

plus the celestial dragons are self-absorbed and dumbed down but even for them they'd notice how the gorusei don't age if it were the case

the thing going for that theory is them having battle scars with no need to fight and being x100 smarter than normal celestials and not so self-absorbed (wear normal clothes, don't wear space-suits etc)

maybe Imu has a training academy the best celestials are thrown into and only the best 5 remaining are taken to be his direct servants (would explain the scars and character growth)

and we know not all nobles are like that by birth from example of Sabo or Doffy (brainless hedonists that is)

[shell kraken]

Nah kaido gonna protect luffy from CP0 without a doubt

[wanton needle]

Y’all think Kaido is gonna die this arc?

[wet patio]

Not sure. If he does it won’t be by luffy

Even though he wants a meaningful/worthy death

[pure raven]

kuma didnt heal luffy he took all of the pain luffy experienced and made it into a physical thing that zoro absorbed

[lime cape]

@normal plume This was my "theory" that could complement yours about joy boy being a giant:

Joy Boy built the Red Line (Paul Bunyan one piece theory)

1- Paul Bunyan - Giant Lumberjack USA folklore Hero
2- Popularised by William B. Laughead who worked in the Red River Lumber Company.
3- His friend was a giant blue ox (Zunesha)
4- He built USA rocky mountains (Red Line) playing "aggressively" with the ox
5- He is waiting for someone who has a D. on the name. His girlfriend name was Lucette Diana (D.) Hackensack
6- Lucette means in Italian Graceful Light and it seems to be in relation with the name Lucy (luffy's name on dressrosa colosseum)
7- Diana -> Japanese (Daiana, the moon goddess) https://www.kanjizone.com/kanjiname.aspx?name=Diana Could mean something like Large Bright Apple tree or evergreen tree
8 -Also Daiana (dai) = Great
a = could also mean depression, sink, hollow (blackbeard meaning of the D.)
na= apple/tree (the same tool can be used to do the other thing)
9- Remember when whitebeard say to teach that you are not the D. Roger was looking for?
I interpret that as Teach's D. is not the same as Roger's, Luffy's, Law's ... D.
That D. means great depression (another combination of kanji's of the word Daiana, Paul Bunyan's girlfriend)

[pure raven]

I doubt the validity of this theory due to the fact that the majority of the marines and WG and the world know about the gorosei. If they were a secret thing like imu than maybe but the fact that they are well known and no one questions them about their age doesnt mesh well with the theory of them being immortal.

[lime cape]

This text would confirm that Zunesha was responsible for the reverse mountain🤔

[pure raven]

how would it confirm anything

its an unrelated story with forced similar themes

[lime cape]

Parallelism with Paul Bunyan folklore

[pure raven]

the only thing you related to one piece is an ox being zunesha and a mountain being the red line which both have been compared tons of other things in tons of other theories

also a = could also mean depression, sink, hollow (blackbeard meaning of the D.)

a = d ? what?

[lime cape]

In kanji but it is just a theory

[pale laurel]

The celestial dragons can keep some secrets within themselves tho. Doffy left Marie Geoise when he was a kid but yet he is still informed about the national treasure and the ability to live forever

[pure raven]

so youre telling me the whole world knows about the gorosei but no one has ever questioned why they havent died or aged at all in 800 years?

[strange robin]

The gorosei are a secret

I doubt everyone knows about the gorosei

[pure raven]

i mean a country farmer wouldnt

imu is the only hidden figure in the WG

[pale laurel]

no. My mistake. I think I read your comment much too quickly and wanted to nitpick

[lime cape]

It would be difficult to beat an immortal being, maybe Imu is suffering and want to die ("special medicine" chopper moment?)

[pure raven]

???

[lime cape]

If the gorosei and Imu are immortal would be almost cheating

Maybe chopper need to develop some poison (special medicine) to kill them

[pure raven]

nothing is immortal in one piece

even if someone had the perpetual youth surgery performed on them they can still die

[lime cape]

Are we sure about it?

[warm edge]

Im's eyes are similar to those of Dracule Mihawk's.

[pure raven]

weve never seen or had any indication that something was "immortal"

[warm edge]

is Im mihawk's father?

[pure raven]

no

[worthy thorn]

what are we thinking about rn

The Gorosei arent immortal. They said the Devil Fruit is "legendary even to them" so its unlikely they are immortal

[lime cape]

I mean if doflamingo wanted the perpetual surgery to get revenge against mariejois, I expect that at least would make you immortal because Kizaru could one shot him easily

[pale laurel]

I don't think we know, but since it's called a perpetual youth surgery it's probably just that

[worthy thorn]

if they were alive at the time of JoyBoy, they likely woulda seen it

[wet patio]

I like a theory explaining that im is immortal and maybe from the moon but the rest or the celestial dragons and elders aren’t

[worthy thorn]

the eternal youth surgery i thought only "Halted the aging process, not immortality"?

[wet patio]

Big mom could’ve used this

[worthy thorn]

i could understand this one, considering how the doctor that used to have the Op Op Fruit knew the youth surgery, and there is no way he just knew about it and told everyone. Someone has to have it

[pure raven]

thats why

it may have been performed and recorded but the user can still die or be killed

you can still get diseases and die or be stabbed or shot or anything it just stops the aging process

[lime cape]

If could be killed then it is not that big of a deal

[wet patio]

I need to hear everyone’s theory on tokis devil fruit and if she’s even really dead.

Like if she is, would be interesting to know who has her DF

[pure raven]

shes dead

her fruit is probably floating in the ocean somewhere or if someone did claim it they accidentally jumped through time and its gone from our time

[warm edge]

I think Im just lives longer than everyone else

[pure raven]

i doubt it will be brought back to the story

[sand sail]

Guys

This isn't the channel for any of this conversation

There's a 15 second permanent slow mode for a reason, please move to one of the manga channels if you want to talk about a casual subject.

[shrewd viper]

shanks snitched

[chilly dragon]

Assuming Luffy's awakening will turn his surroundings to rubber, could he revert it on an object mid stretch? And what would that tension do to the de-rubberized Redline object.

[normal plume]

it would break wouldn't it

[vale plover]

No I don’t think so just like the door door guy from cp9 couldn’t just revert Luffy’s face door back to instant kill him

[bitter grail]

Probably have to stop moving first before it goes back

[teal geyser]

Picture this. Luffy’s snake man does nothing to Kaido. Kaido has a flashback which describes his past. The flashback ends and Luffy starts to awaken his fruit. His awakening allows him to create rubber beings similar to himself. So he could theoretically create 10 gear 2 fake humans.

[warm dew]

Luffy’s snake man does nothing to Kaido
🤨

ah yes, doing nothing

Even Katakuri could track what's going on, and figured out what's going on in a couple of attacks

Kaido is heavily weakened

[sand sail]

Katakuri had a moment to stop and think about it, that's not a good comparison

[warm dew]

True

[sand sail]

Kaido's also not really all that analytical, him getting hit isn't as important

[warm dew]

Yeah that makes a lot of sense

Still is doing something to Kaido

[normal plume]

I would love to see Luffy blast off Kaidou from Onigashima from a barrage of giant punches. Basically a gattling gun of giant hands formed from the awakening of his fruit turning the environment into large fists of rubber. Gear 3rd x 100

so this but x 100! Oh I hope so, but lets see

[shell quartz]

What if the one piece is fake and it’s gonna be used as a lure to use that omega weapon to destroy all pirates

[clear kraken]

I would drop the series

[naive hollow]

whitebeard confirmed it. one piece is real

[shell quartz]

True but what if he doesn’t know what if there’s the slight chance gold roger was in on it

[shell quartz]

And the name of the island is laughtale because the marines are gonna laugh at the tale that they tricked every pirate at once

[vale current]

Gorösei can be translated as “five ancient stars” which adds to the theory they’re from the ancient time. Just a thought

[amber oar]

Oda said the One Piece is real and it's a physical reward, not even some "the friends along the way" bullshit

[naive hollow]

IM GLAD ITS NOT "NAKAMA"

[shell quartz]

This isn’t a Disney show it’s not gonna be the friends along the way

[desert hatch]

also the fact that they didnt age in 20 years

[left tide]

people may have noticed this already but it just dawned on me that there's a small thing that probably works for the theory of sunny being pluton

the figurehead being a lion that resembles the sun of all things could be a detail left in from pluton's original design, considering it likely has ties to the sun god n all that stuff

not much on its own but i figured if the theory's true that'd be a really cool connecting thread

[wooden topaz]

like crocodile said pluton is something can destroy arabasta only with 1 hit, i dont think its Sunny as Pluton.

[left tide]

i mean i don't care to back up the actual theory itself, i just think if it ended up true then that'd be a neat detail

could even just be that franky remembered pluton having a sun as its figurehead and took inspiration from it, who's to say

[torpid mist]

Sunny almost definitely has Pluton elements, given that franky built it as his masterpiece for the pirate king to travel the world in. Given franky's inherited will to go all out when he builds (do it with a Don!), i find it hard to believe there isn't Pluton tech in the Sunny. But it's not a replica or something like that.

I personally think what made pluton really special is that it is a devil fruit that was eaten by a ship.

[tepid coral]

@hollow kernel This channel is only for theories discussion, pl ask any sort of casual question in #manga

[hollow kernel]

sorry i didnt read the other part

[tepid coral]

All good

[vale current]

Thousand sunny is because Luffy is like a sun dawning in the world of darkness, but the lion head is what bugs it

[vale current]

That’s a catch I guess

[desert hatch]

?

[lime cape]

Katakuri only lost against Snakeman gear 4th because he stabbed himself :/

[agile tangle]

I think the gorosei themselves mentioned that the previous world government renamed the fruit meaning that there was a previous wg

[oblique basin]

bonnie is relatives of linlin?

[round cargo]

yes

[pure raven]

Id say Luffy out endured him, Kata was the stronger fighter tbf.

[lime cape]

He won because plot armor

[pure raven]

No such thing

[lime cape]

With luffy's strength at that point he couldn't have won

[pure raven]

Plot armor is always present, wether you like it or not.

[stiff patrol]

Aight here me out, luffy is gonna lose his left eye in wano. There have been constant eye references throughout, even with a sentence from kaido claiming he will rip luffys eyes out

[marble jetty]

I think oda should kill zoro now.
Zoro hate have increased too much nowadays. People love degrading his character. It's better to finish him before more hates takeover. Also people says zoro is lame character no development. Just battle device with no relevance in plot. so maybe his death can complete his character and make some progression

[stiff patrol]

………… this is the single worst theory I have ever heard

Like literally, zoro is increadibly important with a huge goal

[marble jetty]

It's quiet good. Killing him at his peak is good. Look zoro hates has boomed too much and it's increasing day by day and degrading his character

[slender fulcrum]

Based on what the gurusei are saying, if they talked about Luffy's fruit, the awakening shouldn't be about makin everything around rubber

[marble jetty]

Yeah but it has no relevance in plot. Majority accept that

[stiff patrol]

You are insane

Zoro hate has not boomed, he has huge relevance to the plot

[pure raven]

It was a battle of will. Which is why Oda used CoC as symbolism quite often with the clashes etc and the symbolism of Luffys fruit is that rubber bounces back at hopeless situations. Which Luffy does basically all the time, he out endured Katakuri and not overpowered him. You saying Luffys strength is irrelevant to Katas is like saying Zoro can’t damage Kaido at all due to being weaker.

[marble jetty]

Lol dude.
Zoro hate is too great.
I don't want to point out but people even call nami first mate.
Zoro defeated killee they say he didn't it was draw.
Zoro fight kaido everyone says it's enma. Kaido say zoro has coc. People say it's not it's oden power. Zoro awaken coc. People say enma activated his coc and call him asspull.
People say zoro is lame character and non importance character. And he is just for few badass moments nothing more

[pure raven]

Zoro is too hated yet still like the most loved one piece character

[stiff patrol]

Bruh you are genuinly mentally insane no one says that 🤣

[pure raven]

His development is crazy good though I don’t get how people say he is bland.

[deft dagger]

Katakuri mochi has very less durability compared to rubber and coupled with not being hit for a long time like cracker made him get defeated

[marble jetty]

I just think it's good to kill character at peak instead of degrading him

Zoro hate has increased and his character has become unlikable for most of op fans. That's all

[pure raven]

Oda doesn’t kill off characters so he can develop them further from what I have seen. Unless the death of them will lead to major developmental points for other characters eg WB, Ace and Pedro.

[pure raven]

He’s still like the most loved character despite some hating him.

People think sad backstory = good character but I think that Zoros simplicity in that sense and how he has such selfish ambition is what makes him feel truly human.

[deft dagger]

Zoro is always hated mostly cause of some of his fans being extreme but its still retarded to hate a char cause of the fans but it is what it is

[stiff patrol]

Bro you are making up statistics to justify your L theory, no most of one piece fans do not dislike zoro

And he isn’t at his peak, he has to beat Mihawk

[pure raven]

The only way Zoro can be WSS without beating Mihawk is probably defeating someone stronger than Mihawk but I don’t see that happening rn…?

[stiff patrol]

Yeah, but his story is laid in stone since baratie he has to beat mihawk

[marble jetty]

How can zoro be world strongest swordsman when world strongest swordsman roger is dead.

[stiff patrol]

……….. are you genuinly crazy

[marble jetty]

I mean roger clearly was stronger swordsman than Mihawk

So beating mihawk doesn't make him Strongest

[pure raven]

Roger is not a swordsman he just casually uses a sword. Where as Mihawk all his techniques lie in the sword etc.

[stiff patrol]

Bruh the worlds strongest swordsman, is you know, the current one not a dead one….

And that’s like saying luffy will never be the strongest because whitebeard is the strongest and he is dead so how can luffy be the strongest. You are insane

[pure raven]

If anyone else was a stronger swordsman than Mihawk don’t you think they would have gotten a black blade? As I said Roger, WB, Shanks etc all use swords casually where as Mihawks technique and battle ability lie in the sword.

[marble jetty]

BB surpassed whitebeard so by beating him he can become

[pure raven]

BB has not surpassed WB

He has surpassed old WB

[stiff patrol]

……….. are you genuinly insane my guy, blackbeard did not even nearly surpass whitebeard

Old whitebeard was dying of cancer and can barely stand. Blackbeard finished him off when whitebeard literally couldn’t move 🤣🤣🤣, surpassed whitebeard my ass

[hollow grotto]

I'm trying to figure out if this is bait or not, you've baffled me, congrats

[marble jetty]

But Blackbeard has two strongest devil fruit and in 2 year gap. He would have mastered WB fruit too

[stiff patrol]

I genuinly can’t tell

[lime cape]

Technically yes, BB did surpass WB because WB was crippled old

[pure raven]

WB is quite literally the pinnacle of OP strength. BB is not even remotely relevant to the WG and much less does not have the impact WB had. Old WBs existence literally balanced the pirate to marine balance. Whereas as soon ad he died the world spiraled into chaos and marines got the upper hand. Let’s not forget how much significance WB had to some island and countries.

[marble jetty]

It's not bait. I was just thinking of zoro death Theory

[hollow grotto]

fair enough, go for it then

[stiff patrol]

Anyway I’m done with this guy I gotta go, no use arguing

[pure raven]

Zoro won’t die imo.

Luffy we should know at this point it’s clear that there is a high possibility in death. From his gears shortening life spans, Impel down also destroying his life span, ivankovs adrenaline injections also shortening it. But that’s prolly at the very end of the story. Zoro I don’t see any effect in him dying tbh.

[lime cape]

140 years - normal timespan

[pure raven]

?

[lime cape]

A human in one piece lives well over 100 years old, unless gear 2-3-4 literally rests months or years from his life span he can live well and get old like WB

[pure raven]

WB was massively weakened at age, Garp mentioned that he used to be twice as strong at a younger age. Only person thats confirmed to have a long ass life is Doctorine.

[lime cape]

uppss yes, my mistake

Regardless of that, it would be the same argument if a normal human being live 70-80 years old

[pure raven]

As in Human I mean btw

[pure raven]

Kureha is over 100 years old and the oldest person alive rn is like 120 so considering she’s one of thousands of characters to have lived such a long life then I guess it makes sense?

[lime cape]

I mean if luffy has lost for example 10 years from Impel down 10 years from marine ford 10 years from gears using

he could live 20-30 years more, it wouldn't be something urgent like you will die within a year

[pure raven]

Doubt it’s that much but I think the poison treatment took a huge toll

[lime cape]

poison treatment took 10 years

[pure raven]

I don’t think he will die from life span shortening but I assume@his death will signify a new era.

[lime cape]

I think he could die from abusing gears, but that would be a good entry for a chopper arc

Wasn't his dream to find a cure to every disease?

[pure raven]

I don’t think that some dreams will be achieved.

To cure every disease is just something that not even in an anime I can see possible

[lime cape]

It would me meaningful that he could find a cure to near-future luffy's disease

[muted ember]

The age limit for normal humans is 140 in OP world, and Luffy is superhuman

[hollow grove]

Do you think the ark maxim used by eneru was uranus cause it is said that uranus is a ship to open galaxy

[marble jetty]

Vivi is Uranus.

The princess luffy saved are major plot device

[edgy viper]

I always wondered whether Oda stated the 140 years with the idea of Drum Kingdom's advanced medical knowledge in mind
Like is this an average or what? Then in places with poor healthcare people would die at age 40 while on the island Chopper spent his Timeskip on they would live to be almost 250

It's an entirely pointless question but it's fun musing about ig

[lime cape]

Imu has some kind of relationship with kureha

🤔 maybe they are very old people that preserves youth or something like that, eternal youth surgery?

[edgy viper]

I kinda doubt it, where would their connection stem from?
I don't think Imu's immortal anyway, "Imu" sounds more like a title than a name

[split glacier]

Cancer or whatever disease had him hooked up to the machines made him weak.

[lime cape]

Chapter 906 (Ku-re-ha) is Imu's first appearance

I don't know if it could be some kind of relationship (maybe is a weak relationship but it's something)

[pure raven]

uranus is luffy

pluton is a warship built by franky
poseidon is shirahoshi

i guess vivi will be punish because of their traitor in alabasta,

in reverire gorosei has said that alabasta was one of 20 country that pledge 800 years ago , since vivi fight alongside strawhat it absolutely broke the pledge that alabasta made 800 years ago

[edgy viper]

I didn't know, that does sound kinda compelling

Still I can't really imagine how or why they would know each other
Only possibility I can think of is that Imu wasn't always the secret head of the WG and that these two were colleagues 100 years ago

[pure raven]

yea thats why it is wild theory,

anyway in one piece there are alot of creature

if you dont want, that is your problem,

like i said this is wild theory, true or not that different story.

this just theory

[split glacier]

It's one of the discord "rules" here not to mention big details like that about other series.

[tepid coral]

@pure raven Don't send other series specifics here

[edgy viper]

Edit: What Black-Moustache said, nvm

[pure raven]

yea my mistake sorry

[tepid coral]

Yeah good decision to edit it, even mentioning that character name is a spoiler since it's introduced very late in the story

[edgy viper]

I hope I forgot the name til then
But I'm at chapter 50sth so probably^^

Anyway Aliens
Technically we already have aliens in the moon people. Also whatever Fukukuroju is supposed to be, he's definetly a connection to the moon.

So "Imu is from outer space" sounds too far-fetched tbh, we've never seen other planets ot celestial bodies (aside from that one ominous shot in Ohara and the moon)
"Imu is from the moon" on the other hand sounds compelling. We have yet to understand what kind of society Birka was and how it's possible that one guy, Enel, had the knowledge to draft blueprints for the Arc Maxim. It's not impossible that Imu is a Birkan I would say

[muted ember]

Shanks territory includes an island that produces "unrippable fabric." Many of Shanks officers wear capes. My theory is that they can infuse their capes with Haki to create near unbreakable sheilds

[muted ember]

Not sure. Based on the way it's worded, I assume as long as a person lives what's considered a normal life in OP u can live to a max of 140, with certain ppl able to live longer

Haredas, the wizard who taught Nami, is 97 and he seems pretty healthy. But he's not a human, he's Birkan so take it with a grain of salt

[south minnow]

Anyone wan tag me in a hot theory, I need 30 mins to kill

[modest skiff]

Read the pinned posts

[south minnow]

ohh ty, didnt know that was a thing

[warm dew]

Yeah but he also would have won from the little idiot kid who I don’t care enough about to remember their name interfering

[lime cape]

Do you imagine that kureha is Imu?

[twin widget]

it’d be weird to me if the final villain in a pirate stroy (imu) was an alien lmao

[lime cape]

Imu has mihawk similar eyes

[wide lagoon]

So what do you think what happened to sabo then?

[lime cape]

They could project their Haki into the moon to hypnotized the world (void century, God valley...) Infinite Tsukuyomi

[lime cape]

He was captured... I don't think they kill him behind the cameras (probably we will know more after Wano)

[wide lagoon]

I see

[violet ember]

there is a theory I heard a while ago that in the void century there was demons with various powers before and they were evil as fuck

Then joyboy came and defeated them and turned them into devil fruits and distributed them around the world and he became the king of the ancient kingdom

but he happened to have a son wich is a half demon (probably im sama) who grew hatred towards his dad and then he gathered the 20 kingdoms and defeated his father's kingdom and formed the WG

idk but it seems good because when oda described why eating two devil fruits would kill you instantly back in enies lobby arc
he described it as the two demons would fight and kill the user

that also supports the theory that im is immortal since he is half a demon

[sand sail]

Why does Im have to be immortal?

[lime cape]

perpetual youth surgery

[sand sail]

That doesn't answer the question lol

[normal plume]

well this is somewhat similar to one of my theories where I reckoned instead of a lot of demons there were three sea devils. Captured whose power was used to create the zoan, paramecia, and logia fruits (one from each sea devil). But you can't have more than one DF anyway because its encoded in your lineage factor which you only have 1 set of (BB may not). And that these sea devils are locked up below Laughtale and thats why its so hard to find. DF powers and the sea don't mix, and locking the sea devils down there causes terrible weather all throughout the seas, near Laughtale is the worst of it (so you cannot just find it unless you know exactly what coordinates its at), and Joyboy contained this horrible weather to the grandline only seperating it from the rest of the seas creating the red line and calm belt. The Sea Kings are waiting to be finally freed from the calm belt now- and we reckon the redline will be demolished. If this theory pans it it means first the original sea devils need to be dealt with.

@violet ember

[violet ember]

Thats a good theory tbh
but if that was the case then why did roger laugh at laughtale
like he shall be terrified since probably the sea kings would have the voice of all things
but they maybe be the one piece since the one who finds it will turn the word upside down but how is that supposed to bring the piece to the world then??

[normal plume]

haha I have no idea whats so funny at Laughtale. I don't even have a guess yet really. But they won't just turn the world upside down leaving it with anarchy, it likely is they will replace the current structure with the world nobles on top with another better one- probably this is why Dragon is so slow to move. Just destroying everything isn't the answer, it could make things worse- they need a better system to replace to take over immediately- I guess the ugly side of the WG needs to become apparent and clear to the world for the world nobles to be excised off the top of the power structure and effectively replaced without civil conflicts. I think sharing the ugly sides of whats currently happening + the true history of the void century is what Dragons after before going all out in war. So its clear to the world who is deceiving and who is the enemy.

[grand walrus]

this is similar to "luffy having the monkey king mythical zoan" and uses most of the same evidence, but another possibility is that luffy has the "monkey kings staff" paramecia fruit

[cyan berry]

Please don't bring up other series here

[ashen surge]

but luffy is exactly like monkey king since he was also a shapeshifter

sure, gomu gomu no pistol is like Jingu Bang but gear 4 is all about Sun Wukong being able to shapeshift

[cyan berry]

Luffy is not a shape-shifter

Especially not in the same way Sun Wukong is

[ashen surge]

not the same way but it's sure is going there

[normal plume]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9TDFNAW7_g

[ashen surge]

"how de we miss"

[normal plume]

haha well its in the name

[grand walrus]

Journey to the West (1592) describes the Monkey King's iron staff having the magic power to shrink and grow, control the ocean, astral project and entangle with Monkey's spirit, multiply endlessly, pick locks, and transform into various objects. It also has sentience to a certain degree.

[normal plume]

Monkey D Luffy

[ashen surge]

When One Piece started publication here in 2005 the very first thing I noticed lmao this is journey to the west once again

[grand walrus]

if you think about it the gomu gomu fruit is luffys "weapon"

i think "we" refers to the youtuber in question

[ashen surge]

If you check gear 4 bound man attack moves in japanese, they are literally named after monkey king

[grand walrus]

i like the sun wukong mythical zoan idea, i am just saying it is also possible has the staff powers, and the "monkey king" aspect is inherited will

[manic niche]

Sun wukong has the ability to make duplicates of himself
Remember BMs party where many luffys crashed it, that could be foreshadowing to some ability luffy will acquire when he awakens

[grand walrus]

maybe with awakening luffy will get a staff that he can make shrink and grow 😮

[ashen surge]

like his ||limbs?||

[normal plume]

ah well Sun wukong travelling on Clouds makes me think if we're going to see Luffy riding Momo's clouds to fight Kaidou. What a throwback to son Goku!

[grand walrus]

would that require luffy losing one more time on the roof?

[normal plume]

no way! Come on now this times the time!

[native flower]

i feel like i shouldve seen this before but luffy is going to beat kaido by being faster than him, i feel like oda pretty much says it outright in the latest chapter. every other time luffy walked up to kaido using his strongest attacks, kaido would always swing first and harder. luffy isn't going to out strength the strongest creature he's going to out speed it

this is almost barely a theory and more just an observation i made about the last chapter and previous ones but

[normal plume]

He’s going to pummel him so fast or with so many hits he won’t be able to dodge and when it lands he will feel each and every blow

if only someone could be broadcasting the final blow everywhere

[primal cargo]

That's very possible.
I think the clearest thing to be drawn from Luffy's moment in 1041 is that he's not going to win right now. He's definitely not gonna win with this here attack because it's too early, yet he calls it his last attack.
The way Luffy outright tells us what he's going to do for the next moments "I'm gonna keep punching for as long as I can" makes me think we won't be getting to them right away next chapter, since we know what's gonna happen already ; and rather we'll get directly to the end of that phase of the fight.
Which I expect to be the roof cracking and Luffy getting yanked down through it.

But for the eventual end of the duel, whenever that is, speed can very possibly be a deciding factor. Kaido said earlier that Luffy lacked refinement in his technique or something. So I think something like that will be how he wins in the end

[normal plume]

then he will ride on Momo's clouds back up and awaken to deliver the elephant gatling gun (elephant is his gear 3rd giant fist with awakening he can turn surroundings into giant fists too and do a gatling with elephant gun) covered with ryou that will mark the end of Kaidous era

[split dove]

Guys any idea who was emperor before shanks?

Are there only 3 emperors before shanks?

[normal plume]

Roger maybe. He only became the PK at the very end of his life

[split dove]

I see. Roger or shinki

?

[normal plume]

Shiki or Rocks/Xebec true

[split dove]

No. Then whiteboard, big mom and kaido were young when rocks Alive

It's not possible to be rocks.

[normal plume]

oh true. Hmm Shiki or Roger then

[split dove]

I think shanks defeated shiki to become emperor

[weak arrow]

We really have no idea. There's at least like 18 years in the timeline where there was a missing Yonko as Shanks only became a yonko 6 years ago. That character is probably just dead as there's really no place to introduce them into the story at this pooint.

[split glacier]

Maybe there wasn't a defined system as Yonko before Roger's death. It really makes you wonder how many of these pirates were bums in the past 800 years. Roger was roaming and the other current now Yonkos were crew members for Rocks (partially). Not a lot time to control islands elsewhere working for someone

[versed hamlet]

Could have very well been a sanko system too

[thick ice]

meek

[split dove]

Yeah could have been. Then how did shanks become emperor? What did he do? That leafs to mystery.

[normal plume]

well what did WB, BM, and Kaidou do? Isn't it they increased their power in the NW building on their own strength over the years so noone but a few could rival. Being as strong to rival you can be declared a yonkou or one of the great powers I guess. To be seen as strong Shanks could've just had haki clashes and dealt with less major pirates. Its true unlike the others he doesn't seem to have great numbers or allies

[split dove]

I also dunno why Hawkeye didn't become emperor. He has the potential.

[raw laurel]

We don’t know if there was.

Maybe shiki

[normal plume]

one man by himself cannot no matter how strong he is. You need backing. Hawkeye its unclear if he has any motivation tbh

[split dove]

Still there are some mysteries.

1. Kureha knows about Roger.
2. Roger's disease
3. Whitebeard and Roger's talk ( I think we will never know)
4. Shanks meet with elders.
5. Zoro's left eye
6. Oden's torn pages
7. Toki (maybe she is from joyboy era)
8. Roger pirates flashback
9. Rocks flashback
10. Giant strawhat
11. Noah ark
12. Vegapunk ( forgot his name)
13. Dragon flashback
14. Devil fruit origin
15. Laugh tale
16. Red line
17. All blue

[split dove]

Agree

[twin widget]

roger told wb about the d family, so we will know what happened

[split dove]

Whitebeard died. He died with that memory. Maybe when Roger pirates flashback comes, there is a chance

[twin widget]

no as in like, we’re gonna learn the secret behind the D

which is what roger/wb spoke about

[split dove]

Yeah. Law's quest is also behind that

[normal plume]

why isn't Imu, Joyboy and the void on the list. Prime mysteries

[split dove]

It comes in laugh tale and red line

👀

[void fiber]

@split dove do you think that teech takes advantage of the fact that Big Mom and Kaido weakened in wano to steal their poneglifs?

[split dove]

There is 70 Percent chance. Yeah

[normal plume]

3/4 red poneglyphs are in such close proximity right now- if only you know. Teach coming is something that is one hundo p haaha that is if he knows

[split dove]

Luffy needs only one red ponegliff's right?

[normal plume]

yes its the one moved from FMI

I think Shanks did it before coming to MF, thats why he was so late

[split dove]

Ohhh

[violet ember]

mihawk became a shichibukai just to avoid the wg shit
and then you ask why didn't he became a yonko??😂😂

[normal plume]

in case WB defeat happens and FMI isn't protected anymore. Tbh Shanks could've given FMI protection

[split dove]

So there is no red ponegliff in wano

[normal plume]

thats shade on Shanks

[split dove]

😂

[normal plume]

Kaidou has one. BM has one in WCI. And one on Zunisha

Shanks...I wonder if he extended his protection to any islands

[split dove]

Big mom had two or one? I y confused

[normal plume]

1 and she cannot read it. The one Brook copied

[split dove]

After WB defeat, it becomes big mom territory. Then big mom ponegliff is the one in fmi or another one?

[normal plume]

another one. It was moved from FMI before MF ended I think. We don't know who did it

[split dove]

I see

Neptune also didn't say anything

[normal plume]

haha and he said to Robin 'I will tell you everything I know"

[violet ember]

There is one in wano ,one in zou and one with BM (probably the one wich was on fmi)
the last one is missing
it can be with shanks maybe

[split dove]

Maybe in elbaf? Shanks moved there👀

[normal plume]

the one BM has we don't know if its the fmi one just that it was moved. And I think it was before BM gave protection to FMI

I'm about to finish my FMI rewatch it should be coming up

[violet ember]

i said "probably"

[split dove]

Roger stole one from big mom, one from fmi, one from zunisha, one from wano i forgot? So there is no chance big mom stole from FMI

[violet ember]

or maybe it is hidden somewhere wich only shanks know about
maybe roger told about its place

[normal plume]

I think Shanks foresaw WB may lose and took it from FMI. He makes the big brain plays. Also don't think Neptune would've just left it for BM pirates to see and take

[split dove]

Yeah. I think white beard would also agreed with shanks. Maybe their meet in the ship could be about this too other than ace

[normal plume]

it may be in Elbalf truee but that would be so convenient for them (SHs). Well when the stars align and its your fate

[lunar shell]

7. What do you maybe, obv Toki is Joy boy sis

[violet ember]

Shanks real power is that his observation haki is too strong that he can see into deep the future (not just few seconds but years)

[split dove]

Not sis but in his crew

[lunar shell]

nah sis

[violet ember]

(just a theory)

[split dove]

Uh. Not very much possible. Or very much possible. Since equal to mihawk both's observational haki are stronger can see through future very well

[violet ember]

joyboy wasn't a pirate i guess

[lunar shell]

Momo has joy boy's blood, not oden, that how momo as more value than Oden, and why Oden talk so hightly of him to the point that ' Momo cannot die ( in a sense he really need to stay alive ) '

[split dove]

He maybe that period's revolution army and dragon is carrying out his will

[normal plume]

no meme zone

[lunar shell]

Joy Boy was an adventurer has he met with poseidon whose an outlander

[lunar shell]

?

[normal plume]

Momo has Odens blood and how is he immortal?

[violet ember]

i think about joyboy more of a leader not an adventurer more like a king

[lunar shell]

no wait

[split dove]

An outlaw. Needed to understand the world better. So he traveled with a crew

[lunar shell]

by " he can't die" I refer to his importance and the own sentence " I really can't die .. "

[violet ember]

bro he means by "cannot die" that he isn't supposed to die now not an immortal

[abstract pond]

1. Is not strange that someone old knows about Roger. Even Brooks knew about the rookie Roger.
2. Roger asked if he wanted to know everything he discovered and iirc WB said yes so probably everything.
3. Toki is confirmed from the void century so she must have been alive at the time of Joyboy.
4. We kinda got that already with Oden
5. There isn't much else to know about it except why joyboy couldn't do it.

[normal plume]

ahh okay

[lunar shell]

Also Toki said he was from 800 y ago, so same era as joy boy.

[split dove]

8 and 11 are only half the pieces in the puzzles. There is no full story behind it. So it's still mystery.

[lunar shell]

It would be weird if they didnt knew each other, in a story sense, it can't be. Its way more interesting if they are closely connected, hence her being her sister

[abstract pond]

But we already got Roger's flashback. Don't know what else you want Oda to show from him.

[split dove]

She was running away from her role. So yeah she was in Joyboy's crew or in Imu's evil plan

[violet ember]

I think toki was just a child at the time since she didn't know any shit about the void century and she didn't even try to support oden with any information

[lunar shell]

crew ? I imagine her like a princess.

[normal plume]

So you think Joyboy is from Wano then? @lunar shell

[violet ember]

not wano for sure

[lunar shell]

From her personality, I think its weird if they comes from a low comer crew. More sense if she's royalty, given her behaviour at least

[lunar shell]

No, Toki neither.

[split dove]

We need full history behind Roger from origin and how crewmates formed and yeah shanks origin too

[abstract pond]

What you are saying is a full One Piece manga but from Roger and that is never gonna happen xd

[violet ember]

toki is from wano and that was confirmed by toki herself

[split dove]

Yeah agree. Wano's princess. Possible.

[abstract pond]

And we saw how he recruited Rayleigh

[lunar shell]

Y well we also need the " D " and the " what did Roger and Luffy want after being king of pirate, what is the mysterious sentence "

[normal plume]

Toki said she was from Wano I believe

[violet ember]

if they got a film or two it would be nice

[split dove]

That will be told in Roger's flashback or luffy's own adventure. 2nd one most possible

[lunar shell]

Fair enought she's from ancient wano, that doesnt exist anymore and is now a coalition of 5 country.

[lunar shell]

I dont think we'll see Roger much as form now on. That leave us Imu to explain the D thing, and the very last chapter for the ultimate goal of Luffy

Or Maybe Law will be the one to tell us

scratch maybe, defenitly.

[split dove]

Why did Roger and oden laugh man?

[lunar shell]

cuz its funny. Dont you think One piece is a funny story ?

They just read the damn thing, the one piece is the story itself.

[violet ember]

i think the D thing was just described in the last poneglyph in laughtale

[split dove]

Funny story resulted in many deaths and extinction of species and kingdom

[lunar shell]

Probably someone from the present will go back into the past and relate to all of Luffy story, that will become a prophecy. And Luffy's name will be understood has ' laughty ' the laughy boy. Joy boy.

Or not.

[split dove]

U r saying luffy is joyboy. He travels to past. A nice one😂 😂

[lunar shell]

That's not what I said ^^

[violet ember]

It is not "dark" it is "One piece"

[lunar shell]

I said someone will simply record on Luffy adventure to the past, that joy boy never existed in the past, but in the present, the princess joy boy made a promise to, is word for word the promise luffy made to shiraoshi

cancel me

[split dove]

👀

[lunar shell]

just cancel me intead of giving me the eyes ^^

[split dove]

I will hate that end

[pure raven]

i think they laughed so hard because the one piece treasure brings joy ? literally the char name is joyboy the one who brings dawn ?

[violet ember]

then who tf sent the poneglyph or noah to fmi

[lunar shell]

penyglyph are made after hearing joy boy story / noah is the same

[split dove]

Yeah that too

[lunar shell]

You dont need joy boy to be in the past if you have his story

[split dove]

Then who made Noah. A paradox

[lunar shell]

Oh y, its joy boy who constructed Noah. At least it's what it said

[normal plume]

Joyboy is a giant thats how he built it

and coated it

[violet ember]

then how is zunisha supposed to be joyboy's mate if joyboy never existed??

[split dove]

U r sticking with giant strawhat. Mmm

[pure raven]

yes also imo he could very well be a fishman too a large fishman

[lunar shell]

idk maybe whoever speak of the story have the boat made and then say its joy boy...idk but its not a cancel

[split dove]

Another paradox

[normal plume]

yepp and also Zunisha- baby Zunisha perfect giant pet

[lunar shell]

who said Zunesha was joy boy mate?

[split dove]

chapter 1040 momo said

[violet ember]

in chapter 1040 or 1041
momo said that

after he had a discussion with zunisha

[lunar shell]

Interesting. Very interesting indeed. Let me dwell on it

[split dove]

Reason zunesha hears order from momo only due to toki

[violet ember]

nice theory but it has too many errors

@lunar shell

[split dove]

Hmmm. Luffy also can hear zunesha. It's not possible to listen to luffy.

[normal plume]

I want more from Toki in this arc. She is from Wano. Maybe she's the sister of the Kozuki ancestor that is Joyboys bestie. But that would mean she's marrying a descendant by marrying Oden..

[split dove]

Marrying great great grand children. Mmm

[lunar shell]

Those than hear VOAT can talk VOAT. They just need to use conqueror haki

[violet ember]

that could make sense
luffy,roger,oden,momo could hear zunisha but only momo could speak back
maybe you are right its toki's blood
wich supports the fact that toki is joyboy sis

[split dove]

But why kaido sees joyboy in luffy?

[lunar shell]

So about Zunesha being mate with joy boy. That only mean that... 800 y ago.. Zunesha was here, and now. But then we know about Luffy's mate. Who is immortal and would commite a grave crime : no one in my opinion.

My theory seems to falls here indeed. I'm being canceled

[violet ember]

luffy is joyboy reincarnation but momo just has his blood

[normal plume]

Toki probably isn't Joyboys sis. I don't think Joyboy is from Wano- theres no support for it. Plus she never made it a point to visit fmi which was so important to him

[pure raven]

Bro why is an elephant mating with joy boy

[lunar shell]

Cuz Kaido know he will be defeated by Joy Boy. Whoever defeat him is joy boy ( that was one of the element supporting my theory )

[normal plume]

'mate' as in friend

[pure raven]

It was a joke

[split dove]

[normal plume]

haha oh my.

gross

[lunar shell]

Oh also remember Kaido want something particular in wano and that's why he chose this island

dont forget we need to know that ( by we I mean you, me I know )

[normal plume]

its something he couldn't just take away and go somewhere else

[lunar shell]

Yep, very correct.

[split dove]

Imu immortal so someone should have performed op-op surgery. Is it joyboy? Then what is the importance of gomu-gomu?

[lunar shell]

Yes. Obv Imu is immortal thanks to the op-op ( zunesha as well probably )

We do need someone that got immortal with this fruit to know this fruit can do that.

[normal plume]

also this leads to why the WG wants cp0 to interfere with Luffy vs Kaidou now- even though thats like a suicide mission. They don't want them to wait until the fight comes to an end where its so much easier to deal with luffy being weakened. Its because they don't want this fight to reach its conclusion that means..its probably because Kaidou about to spill some deats in his drunken state before getting beat and the gorusei are afraid of that

[pure raven]

That's hasn't been confirmed though right? Is imu actually imortal

[violet ember]

he wanted wano cuz it is a closed country away from WG
its also very big and has lots of strong men who could work for him
a road poneglyph
and it is related to the void century wich could lead him to the one piece

[split dove]

Mostly. Yeah. Imu is from void century

[pure raven]

When was that stated?

[lunar shell]

What if Imu becomes Zunesha though. I mean Luffy can be friend with Imu at the end, cuz he makes friend and all that, his point of view prevail, Imu ( having the same eyes as zun boy btw ) go to the past and is the one telling of luffy story, and...Become an elephant cuz why not

[split dove]

Just a theory.

[normal plume]

its a huge reserve for seastone too right

[lunar shell]

its confirmed, by me. I also confirm Dragon has the wind fruit

[pure raven]

Bro yall really be putting theories on top of theories huh

[violet ember]

yeah

[lunar shell]

y that's obv

[violet ember]

thats how theories work

[lunar shell]

Who here doesnt think for 95% Imu is from the void century and is immortal

[split dove]

Hahahaha. It's a possible one. Imu near to straw hat and treasures it. It maybe belonged to joyboy

[pure raven]

He could be anyone? We saw like 10 seconds of him

[lunar shell]

If everyone think the same thing, its not a theory, its the truth, that's how truth work

[normal plume]

what kind of person do you know need to be to be alone and friendless for centuries like Imu probably is

[pure raven]

The truth is based on facts thats kinda the definition

[normal plume]

haha you just need to be Mihawk I guess. Perfectly happy all alone

[lunar shell]

the context around those 10s tell us a lot more than the shape of his eyes you know^^

[lunar shell]

Really, why is a tomato a fruit then.

[pure raven]

Because it has seeds

[split dove]

He puts knife only on the people with d names. Luffy and teach

[lunar shell]

I'm sorry I mean : why is tomato a vegetable then

[split dove]

D name is something here

[pure raven]

It isn't?

[lunar shell]

check again

[pure raven]

Check mate on what? Everyone knows that unless your 5 years old

[lunar shell]

Scientist says its a fruit

[split dove]

Tomato in green veggie and in red it's fruit

[lunar shell]

But since everyone say its a vegetable, it became a truth that it is, so now : its both

[pure raven]

No one says that

[pure raven]

Only 5 year Olds think that bro

[split dove]

So yeah. Joy boy maybe also had d name or imu has d name

[lunar shell]

You really need to checks those ' facts ' of yours.

[pure raven]

Next you are gonna say the earth is flat lol

[split dove]

👀

[lunar shell]

I'm gonna say the earth has 99.99(boring)99% of not being flat.

[split dove]

Going back to sleep

[wind isle]

[lunar shell]

But that's an other topic

[oak mortar]

i have a theory on if the awakening of luffy is the shrink or make people grow. which would be the answer for the giantification process

[pure raven]

Bro why did you even put a 0.01% in there that's a huge chance

[lunar shell]

Its just my opinion.

[split dove]

Yeah agree

[lunar shell]

Fact doesnt exist.

A tree is green only cuz ppl told you he was. The truth is whatever the most people admit to be

[wind isle]

Oda will turn the tables in the most unexpected way. Many of the readers have been thinking they have figured out everything abt gear 5 awakening ;stuff but he does this everytime. It will turn out be something entirely different.

[lunar shell]

Anyway : Imu is immortal.

[split dove]

So Joy boy has gomu gonu fruit. Mmm then who had op-op fruit

[oak mortar]

i got no clue about op op fruit way back when. honestly there is nothing to find theories with minor evidence

[lunar shell]

This gomu thing I think its about becoming giant for some reason

[pure raven]

That kinda works, but doesn't fully work with the fact that luffy shrinking was more of a side-effect. I think it's more likely he will just be able to turn things into rubber like doflamingo can turn things into string. With that luffy can take control of the environment and use it

[lunar shell]

Maybe its the gomu that made this ancient strawhate being big, or zunesha being very big

[pure raven]

Why would you want to be big though? Especially big enough to wear that hat

[lunar shell]

Maybe Luffy will reveal this in defeating Kaido with a punch so huge that his Roc punch will look like a sun

[oak mortar]

yeah i dunno but luffy shrinking is a side effect but shrinking/growing others isnt

[lunar shell]

Idk 😦 its really useless indeed

[pure raven]

That is true

[lunar shell]

But what can the gomu be if not that....

[split dove]

Op-op and gomu gomu ancient ones and zunesha also ancient devil fruit. Maybe zunesha was Joyboy's ship and it ate devil fruit and turned into this

[lunar shell]

Y. well the dog fruit is probably an ancient too but that doesnt explain a thing

[modest skiff]

Luffy’s gear 3 seems to not just inflate but add mass. So if you made your whole army giant, you are amazingly powerful

[lunar shell]

Its boring tbh if the legendary gomu just have a giant features

or maybe...The fruit isnt gomu at all. Like OZ that was using ability when he is just a shadow...

[shadow ruin]

It was an actual theory whoever banned me im being dead serious. I can see oda doing something like that

[modest skiff]

I don’t think it’s boring and you shouldn’t assume it would be as simple as we described

[normal plume]

That’s just like the awakening of that filler girl which could change her size

[pure raven]

Look my problem with the giant luffy theory is that he is about to become the strongest in the world (other than maybe blackbeard and imu) after defeating kaido there isn't really a reason to become giant.

UNLESS the gomu gomu no mi is needed for laugh tale and that is why the world government wants it, and that's why roger was too early

[modest skiff]

Being serious is not all we require. It needs to be good and decent too. DM a mod if you have any more concerns , don’t post it here

[split dove]

U mean cerebrus that black beard has👀 . That's one wierd theory. It less likely possible. Blackbeard has two devil fruit power because of his dark-dark fruit. It can absorb devil power or negate it. Luffy should train as hell to beat tough enemy

[lunar shell]

If the fruit is : you can do whatever bro, but luffy think its a gomu fruit, he will only do gomu stuff ( I just entertain an idea but I dont think this is it, but maybe something close to it)

[modest skiff]

This assumes everything remains the same, no one gets stronger, we know very little about how the world could change

[normal plume]

How much can they stretch Luffy’s gomu powers anyway?

[pure raven]

That is true

[modest skiff]

Users learn the powers of the fruit when they eat it

[normal plume]

Barely went anywhere with Kidd yet

[lunar shell]

You need to stop to think based on the gomu fact, think based on whatever can do gomu AND something else

[split dove]

750 gomu-gomu like oda told in sbs question corner

[pure raven]

Pretty far we see his maximum in skypiea

[normal plume]

I think you need 1000 gomu-gomu to reach giant level stretch for fully body

[modest skiff]

Don’t get off topic with “who kills who” please. Save that for manga channels

[pure raven]

Bruh why did my comment get deleted

[split dove]

Luffy vs Blackbeard tough fight. dark-dark fruit does wonders. And he also has tremor-tremor also that seems no problem to luffy. Only dark dark power

[modest skiff]

This channel is for theory discussion rather than light hearted conversation about who fights or kills who

[pure raven]

I just said zoro fans need to chill? And isn't that part of a theory if we are talking about future fights between zoro and stuff?

[lunar shell]

Or.. Do you remember Ener and his last form, or sengoku ?. Maybe the gomu, when awakenen, take the from of sun wukong or something, and that's its strong.

[normal plume]

Do you know for BB, Chopper may be the solution. Choppers dream is to cure all diseases if he realizes his dream he can cure BB’s abnormal body. The moment his body becomes normal he’ll probably explode not being able to handle 2 DFs just like a normal person

[lunar shell]

Cuz it is when awakened that the true power of the fruit shine right

that is one guy from the gorosei that said that

[pure raven]

The wukong theory is stupid bro it makes zero sense

[split dove]

Night. My dreams are going to fill with these theories

[lunar shell]

Elaborate

[split dove]

That's for zunesha or gomu gomu?

[lunar shell]

Gomu gomu

[oak mortar]

mainly this channel should be about serious theories that look pretty much like this
#manga-theories message

otherwise 95% of coversations on this channel should be on the #manga channel

[pale laurel]

The whole idea that the rubber fruit is actually a gigantification fruit comes from the theory that Joy Boy is a giant, which is believed because of the large straw hat in Marie Geoise. However, while that straw hat was large it was by no means large enough to fit a giant (a giant by one piece standards). It might fit someone of Kaido or Big Mom's size. So I think the giant fruit theory is quite shaky

[pure raven]

Well luffy ate the gomu gomu no mi.

And if we go off of your previous logic of "if everybody thinks something it's fact" then I guess luffy can't have the son wukong fruit

[lunar shell]

"Sun later uses the staff in a battle with a white-clad woman who transforms into a tiger demon. He changes the staff into a titanic red-haired, blue-skinned Yaksha with a club, showing that the predecessor of the Compliant Golden-Hooped Rod has more magical abilitie"

That what is said about Luffy's fruit's mythological reference, the weapon of sun wukong

[oak mortar]

we do not know any of this

[split dove]

Maybe that's the reason kaido thought he maybe joyboy. But how did he know about hat?🙃

[lunar shell]

Yes he can. That why I give you ener.

[modest skiff]

Joyboy could have been Kaido size and also been able to stretch himself and others using awakening. Zunesha might just be a stretched elephant since perhaps the awakening is persistent similar to others

[versed latch]

Crocodile is luffy's mom.

[split dove]

He stretched zunesha to protect zou. Mmm 😋

[versed latch]

HAHAHAHAHA ALR

[split dove]

[versed latch]

But for real that theory exists

there's a video about it

[pale laurel]

it could be the case, yes. But then I don't know why people think that Luffy's fruit might enable size-change

[split dove]

No don't please. Crocodile luffy mom. No

[lunar shell]

Look when you awaken a fruit then the 'demon' has more power and show his true form

[oak mortar]

yeah it does and everyone has their point of view about that one. its seriously enormously flawed but it remains a theory anyway xD

[modest skiff]

Gear 3 doesn’t just inflate, it adds mass, which is why Luffy broke that metal door in enies lobby. If he could use gear 3 on other people, he’s essentially making giants

[lunar shell]

Luffy's fruit true form is someone not to mess with.

[versed latch]

Honestly if it ends up being the case imma go crazy

[split dove]

Enel Mutation

[pale laurel]

I see. That makes sense

[modest skiff]

If you do think this, please try to add more detail to why you think it rather than just posting 1 line. Per the channel description we ask for more effort

[split dove]

So elbaf the land of giants made by joyboy

[oak mortar]

10% chance but who knows

[lunar shell]

Forget this giant story its boring

Why would Oda write something as boring

[normal plume]

Exactly what VP failed to do and perhaps he was trying on the WGs order. It’s an extremely dangerous power and could be why the WG is after the gomu gomu no mi

[modest skiff]

We’re not trying to entertain you. We’re having a discussion

[oak mortar]

lol oda wouldnt make that boring. tbh

[lunar shell]

My point is : it can't be cuz it's not interesting, it's not about me being entertained

[split dove]

Maybe I was wrong. They are natural.

[versed latch]

We know that ivankof can change someone's gender right?
and we also know that crocodile is hiding a secret
so what if crocodile actually changed his gender to protect luffy or some crazy shit like that

[lunar shell]

then..stab and leave him for dead in a sea of sand. Make sense.

[versed latch]

LMAO

[split dove]

Crocodile doesn't care for luffy

Croco not luffy mom

[lunar shell]

Dragon doesnt care for crocodile either

[versed latch]

This theory is so crazy and funny and improbable that i wanna believe in it XD

[normal plume]

But you know for real the real mystery if the gigantism is real is how Luffy can create mass. How can you create more mass? Is he converting his energy into mass? That would take tremendous amounts of energy being funnelled through

[pale laurel]

Crocodile knew Luffy's name was "Monkey D. Luffy" which is similar to "Monkey D. Dragon", so he should have realized that Luffy might have been his son

[versed latch]

well it's just a theory and I'm too lazy to search for more arguments anyway

[split dove]

Luffy's mom maybe in navy or someone that maybe the reason that triggered dragon to go for revolution. For luffy's mom

[normal plume]

It isn’t a valid theory, it’s a theory for the sake of entertainment

[lunar shell]

Obv Luffy's mom is dead, since we can guess her personality by the fact that everything Luffy is that his father isnt, her mother is ( that's how it work in shonen ) , such a character would not abandon Luffy = she's dead meat. Dont worry Dragon sad fb will explain that to you guys

[split dove]

Mm nice theory. Luffy's mom death lead dragon change

[versed latch]

aren't all theory for the sake of entertainment

[oak mortar]

a theory such as croco is luffys mom isnt shonen and not for kids. imagine the reveals '' croco is luffys mom'' but wait ''moms beats his son'' and then ''son beats his mom'' i think that is extremly violent for an anime. we already had enough especially with the viola and doflamingo thing

[pale laurel]

you can argue that against a lot of devil fruits. Many of them seemingly create something out of nothing

[lunar shell]

Classic, but obv.

[lunar shell]

Its bed time for you.

[normal plume]

Luffy’s mom could be the previous empress to Amazon lily before the grandma. They say she left Becuase she got the same sickness as Boa “love sickness” for some time and so the old grandma got the empress title. She could’ve left to give birth to Luffy then returned because of her duties to her kingdom and the no boys allowed rule so she couldn’t raise Luffy. I think she died of love sickness not sure

[versed latch]

Noo i think luffy mom's backstory is gonna be something crazier

[normal plume]

That’s from awakening right?

[split dove]

For me too. See ya all. Need to go to work tomorrow. Or else they will chop chop me

[split dove]

Naah dragon's change and revolution started with luffy mom death

[versed latch]

yes but i think the mom's backstory is gonna be more than just she was in the navy

[normal plume]

Gonna be off too

[pale laurel]

no, for example Sakazuki can create lava, which has mass

[normal plume]

Always a fun relaxing day on discord

[versed latch]

After wano one piece is gonna get so crazy

[pale laurel]

you might say it takes a bit of energy from him, but really you should just think of it as cartoon magic

[normal plume]

A bit of lava vs making giants is a huge energy difference in mass. But Yepp shouldn’t read so much into DF powers as anything goes

[split dove]

Emil my theory about joyboy turning elbaf people into giants😂

But they have more lifespan than humans

[pale laurel]

well 😅 it's an idea, but I don't immediately see how that would add much to the story

[lunar shell]

ikr

It has to be linked to one of the Ruyi Jingu Bang features, as this staff is the fruit.

Maybe its about weight. That would explain how luffy will destroy from marijoie all the way down to the fishmens island...

[pale laurel]

personally I feel that snakeman is already kinda monkey god like

[split dove]

Gear 5 is advanced conquerer haki? And Awakening maybe. With advanced conquerer haki coated over armamental haki

[lunar shell]

Gear 4 is Luffy that mixe haki with fruit.

Gear 5 will be Luffy that mixe conqueror haki with fruit

[pale laurel]

Gear 5 will most likely involve either coc or awakening, yeah

[lunar shell]

Yes there is a possibiliy that it involve awakening, but then that leave little room for improvement in future fight

Conqueror, G5 and awakening just for Kaido is a little bit overkill

[abstract mulch]

Agreed it would be a combination maybe if G5 which will probably similar to G4 but instead of Armanent haki it will be COC than they’ll add a awakening for Imu or maybe even Blackbeard

[versed latch]

It's been so crazy I'm loving it

i wonder how much their bounties are gonna be

But i guess after wano luffy will be an emperor of the sea wow

[pure raven]

sabo already captured, he same as luffy cant hold anger but sabo dont have lucky as luffy.

World government probably will benefit sabo as bait for Revolutionary to come rescue sabo. Sabo wont be punished ATM, probably after wano end, sabo will be executed in front people like they did to ace.

this will attract luffy and his 5k fleet and The Revolutionary to come again at marineford to rescue sabo.

If that not happen, probably something unexpected will happen, we know WG not happy if luffy with his new bounty more than 5 billion berry and his fleet, and probably law will join luffy because law want to know about The "D", law only able to find this with strawhat because they have robin.

WG maybe will use their new weapon that Dr vega punk use, will another Great War happen after Wano, probably.

Or maybe just crash in and out at marineford like luffy did in prison and whole cake island.

i personally prefer the Great Marineford War II, as they WG prepare their new weapon made by Dr Vega punk. The weapons are powerful as they mention.

this just theory.

[weak arrow]

#manga-theories message Feel free to read my theory on the subject to see if it might change your mind

[primal cargo]

I could see that the Marines try to go for Marineford 2 by having Sabo executed to bring out Dragon's forces and maybe Luffy's and eliminate them ; and then something happens that makes it go in a completely unexpected direction and we end up getting something completely different from the old Impel Down/Marineford saga

[exotic blade]

What if luffy gets a stick made out of pure haki? 👀

[raw laurel]

Xdrake will join the straw hats

[spare quarry]

Do you guys think gear 5 will happen in wano?

[unborn onyx]

No

Luffy will use gear 4 snakeman to defeat kaido

[raw laurel]

Maybe

Not yet though

[weak arrow]

If you're going to post a statement like this, please add supporting evidence for it.

[sweet inlet]

I think he will use a new form of gear fourth, like a final form thing but what it will look like or be called is beyond me

[tawdry bramble]

Nah he already said he was tapped out form wise. It’s awakening as show cased by Law and Kidd mastering their fruits.

[void fiber]

maybe

[raw laurel]

Well the short story is drake is a member of sword and that sword’s goal is to expose the corruption of the government and remove the corrupt leaders of the world.

Drake will join the straw hats in order to reach laugh tale so he could uncover what the government is hiding and use that against them by exposing their secrets to the world

[native pelican]

did oda stated about the SWORD's motive already ?

[amber oar]

no, nothing

They're a special unit from the Navy HQ

And there's a good chance they answer directly to Sakazuki

[native pelican]

yeah we still dk what are they for

[solar knoll]

Don’t think Sword is under Sakazuki. If anything they are probably an independent branch, even kuzan might be in.

[halcyon talon]

this is what im thinking

[unreal marlin]

This might be stupid but Could Nami be a princess. Vivi, Rebecca, and shirahoshi are all princess but nami. Maybe an heir to a void century kingdom

[pure raven]

no

I think oda has conveyed enough through whole cake island and marineford and whitebeard that bloodlines and who your parents are mean nothing

even in wano

yamato doesnt care that she has oni blood she still wants to be oden and break free from kaido

[halcyon talon]

did you watch that video from one of the one piece content creators (i think GLR or something) that luffy's mum means nothing

[pure raven]

i only watch tekking now from watching others for a few months i kind of noticed tekking is the only non clickbait one piece tuber

but no i dont subscribe to any theories about luffys mom

luffys mom is probably just some lady like aces mom was

rogue really wasnt special she was just someone that fell in love with gold roger

[halcyon talon]

yeah i agree

[uneven zephyr]

I think Mr Morj usually has theories that arent too clickbaity

but there was a video made by Ohara talking about moms recently where it was like the presence of a loving caring mother stops the adventure because adventures are dangerous and shit, so Oda is deliberately keeping Luffys mom away until the very end of the story, when the adventure is over

[halcyon talon]

that makes a lot of sense

[split dove]

It maybe under garp who knows

[split dove]

Sabo will be rescued by revolutionary not luffy I think

[solar knoll]

Garp doesn’t seem like the covert/strategy kind of guy. He seems like the kind to break through the wall and find out himself

[pure raven]

personally i want kong to be involved

[split dove]

That's what oda saying to us. That maybe a twist

We may see new garp. And he also have d name

[pure raven]

if sword is a secret organization in the military to take down the emperors id think they would need an inside man in the WG too because the WG is known to dabble in underworld trading with pirates IE slaves and weapons. Kong was the fleet admiral before sengoku so garp and sengoku are most likely on good terms with him.

also why would oda make kong canon if he wasnt going to bring him up ever in the main story

[split dove]

He is on Navy but has secret organization. Even his son don't know about that. Hence, he asked luffy not to turn pirate and become navy and work with him. And turn the government upside down. Dragon had another kind of philosophy revolution different from garps. So yeah

[split dove]

Who is Kong?

Oh I got it

[split dove]

I think this maybe one good theory. Garp runs secret organization.

[foggy gulch]

Hmmmm next chapter might explain the whole secret organisation stuff with cp0 and xdrake

[nocturne swift]

we hav chances cuz in the last chapter it was stated that it was his last snake man

[halcyon talon]

he said it was his final gear four, which creates an even stronger impression that he has unlocked a new power (maybe (who knows))

[nocturne swift]

yes yes

smth like an awakening

[halcyon talon]

yeah now that we're this far in the series, another awakening would be nice

[split dove]

Semi awakening stage like super Saiyan blue

Mmm

[safe ridge]

i hope momonosuke order zunisha to blast those navy ships XD

[meager bloom]

He has to or it will be difficult for shats to enjoy the banquet

[safe ridge]

yah.. luffy always do banquet XD

it's just like the WCI when bigmom rush to luffy

it's always like that though the plot oda make

[meager bloom]

Wano ending will be full of suprises

Someone from Op has said this in 2019 i think

[safe ridge]

i hope the man who from the past will be revealed

XD many theories about copper gabban

[halcyon talon]

man from the past?

[versed latch]

I can't wait

[versed latch]

Wait who's that

did i miss an episode

you mean rocks?

[halcyon talon]

not sure thats what im trying to figure out haha, replying to @safe ridge

i think i know what that person's referencing, cant remember the official title

[versed latch]

Yes i know

[versed latch]

Same 💀

[halcyon talon]

oooh maybe they're talking about the mystery man

[versed latch]

What mystery man

do you know how many mystery mans there's in one piece 💀

[halcyon talon]

sorry i got the wrong title, i meant lurking legend

[versed latch]

Don't worry XD

ok imma google it

yee i was right it's rocks Quebec

[halcyon talon]

cool cool let me know what you think. honestly i need to google about it cause i only knew about the lurking legend cause people talked about it

[night karma]

Stop talking normally in here

[halcyon talon]

oh is it officially rocks? or is it just theories

[versed latch]

I need to watch more stuff about him to get an idea of who he might be

[night karma]

This channel is for theories

[halcyon talon]

sorry woro

[versed latch]

no idea

[versed latch]

Alr my bad

[modest skiff]

@versed latch @halcyon talon this channel is only for serious theory discussion, not casual conversations. The conversation you are having is a perfect fit for #manga . Please don't continue it here

[halcyon talon]

yep got the memo

[pure raven]

THE PREPARATIONS: Two-headed Hiyori vs. beheaded Orochi

---

TLDR: Hiyori has a mythical pheasant fruit. She knew Hitetsu had Ame no Habakiri. She went to get it from him before going to Onigashima. She created a plan with some of the Scabbards. That plan - *the preparations* - is in motion already. It ends with Hiyori killing Orochi using Ame no Habakiri.

So, firstly, some Hiyori lore:

We all know Hiyori wants to kill Orochi [ch950].

Hiyori feels like she's in a place to give Enma to Zoro, even if it was with Hitetsu all those years [ch953], which could imply she knew he had the swords.

Hiyori says goodbye to Kawamatsu, says she won't meet the others before the battle [ch955], which could also imply that she was already planning on joining the raid.

Why Ame no Habakiri, then???

In the real world mythology, the Ame no Habakiri is the sword that Susanoo used to kill the Yamata no Orochi. Susanoo deceives the beast, making all of the beast's heads drunk, and then he slashed the monster to pieces.

Hiyori would be making sure a sword that belonged to her father was the one to bring the end to Orochi's reign.

Addition:

Ame no Habakiri is the opposite of Enma. Enma sucks the haki out of the user. AnH would require the user to put all his haki into the sword for it to cut.

Its name means "large snake beheader", but in the literal sense, the kanji on its name (天羽々斬) mean "feathery slasher of heaven". Feathery because it's WAAAY too delicate, it's way too light, it doesn't have the necessary weight to cut anything but the heavens.

However, Orochi would be in such a sorry state, have no will (no haki) and his scales would never be the problem (parallel to him not being the villain with the real power), so he'd be cut. We know fear affects him physically because he couldn't feel the heat of his bath after Oden was killed in boiling oil.

For this theory to work, Hiyori would do this:

• go from Ringo to Amigasa alone to get the sword
• go from there to Onigashima
  One way for her to do this is by having a fruit that allows flight. I believe it's a mythical pheasant Zoan.

Before the reveal, look at ch1041.
"Hiyori" is lifeless on the floor. Then she is up and playing. Then the roof falls.

I believe the first panel is NOT Hiyori herself, but Komurasaki's "shell": Komurasaki's clothes and mask. Hiyori would have abandoned the clothes there for a second. She'd go into beast form, she'd fly to the roof and break it, and come back to play the song. The roof would soon collapse.

**So what is the fruit??? **

Tori Tori no mi, mythical model: Gumyouchou (共命鳥)

This mythical yokai from buddhist mythology represents Hiyori completely.

It is a beautiful two headed pheasant. Each of the heads had a personality, but they shared one body. The heads didn't enjoy each other. One head would be sleeping while the other would be filling their stomach. When the sleeping head woke up, it'd be hungry, but unable to enjoy the food because the body would already be full. One day, one of the heads decides to eat poison so the other head would suffer from it, but both die, as both share one body. That's when the bird is enlightened.

So yeah, the beautiful makes sense, but what about the two heads?

Hiyori isn't just Hiyori. Hiyori's body is both Hiyori and Komurasaki. At a point in time, Hiyori accepted Komurasaki was part of her as well. Both Hiyori and Komurasaki are essential in bringing this dawn to Wano. Hiyori would have to grow up accepting both "heads" as important parts of herself.

(link for more information https://yokai.com/gumyouchou/)

So, for now, we have:

Hiyori got Ame no Habakiri. Flew to Onigashima. Created a plan to kill Orochi that required the Scabbards.

**What is this plan, and when did the Scabbards know about it? **

Hiyori was helping the Scabbards when they were injured. Kawamatsu believes he might have been dreaming, so he did not have any plan with Hiyori at that time. They didn't even know she was there.

Inuarashi and Ashura stay behind for the fake Oden and Jack, leaving the rest to run away.

The Scabbards who left the scene then would have met Hiyori, with her battle plan to kill Orochi. She'd be waiting for them.

THE PREPARATIONS

Hiyori, sharing the same knowledge as Denjiro, would explain to the Scabbards that Orochi has 8 heads, meaning he can die 8 times. She'd also share Orochi's current location with them, meaning their encounter with Orochi was NOT an accident.

The princess, wanting to kill Orochi herself, would ask the Scabbards to cut Orochi's heads, leaving ONE HEAD.

This would lead to Orochi running away and having his guard down, as he would expect both Kaidou and the Kozuki, his greatest enemies here, to believe he was already done.

Hiyori wouldn't want her sentimental plans to ruin the raid, so she'd order all the Scabbards to help in the battlefield after the Orochi stunt, except for two:

• Raizo, who would have to separate Fukurokuju from Orochi
• Denjiro, who would keep Ame no Habakiri and give it to Hiyori

Hiyori would use the opportunity that Orochi is alone with the guard down to lure him with the shamisen and seduce him. This allows her to stab Orochi with seastone, preventing his transformation.

Then, and only then, could Denjiro bring her the sword - if it was there already, it would ruin the disguise.

Ok, Raizo makes sense, but why Denjiro?

Denjiro is the one who, due to Orochi's shogunate, had to have two heads sharing the same body - Denjiro and Kyoshiro - just like Hiyori with Hiyori and Komurasaki. The speech Hiyori would give to Orochi would be as much Denjiro's as it would be hers.

Orochi's death

I've already covered why I think Orochi will be beheaded by Hiyori and Ame no Habakiri. However, there is something else:

Bringing back the myths and legends of Susanoo, another thing that Susanoo found when he was cutting the Yamata no Orochi was a sword - Kusanagi no Tsurugi. This sword came out of the beast's corpse.

Translating that to One Piece: it would not be out of the ordinary for Orochi to eat people. I believe that the sight of Hiyori with the blade will terrify Orochi. This could lead to him being in his worst state - disgusting, begging, puking. He could vomit out some of his victim's belongings, including a sword. Kusanagi no Tsurugi, it could be Hiyori's sword.

Now, for the questions I've seen:
Why would she use her brother's sword?

Well how would she know that Momonosuke asked Hitetsu to keep it... I think Hiyori was already there, in Zoan form, distant from the rest, and she witnessed the scene.

Hitetsu would only allow one person to leave his place with Momonosuke's sword - the princess, Kozuki Hiyori.

---

How would she know Hitetsu?
Hitetsu has been waiting for 20 years to give the swords. Even if Hiyori met Hitetsu before, she could've refused the blade as Komurasaki.
Two options:

• Hitetsu was given the swords by Toki, Hiyori remembers this.
• Hitetsu is Sukiyaki.

Hitetsu being Sukiyaki is already a huge theory that I love - <#manga-theories message>

Sukiyaki could have been imprisoned by Orochi in the room with the dolls for years, with nothing but some of Wano's treasured Devil Fruits (Tama's, Yamato's, Hiyori's, Bunbuku's, for example). As a Samurai, he could've chosen not to eat those, and therefore he went years without eating.

Denjiro's appearance changed from autumn to winter. And he became the leader of Orochi's Yakuza during spring. This means that it was less than a year for him to get that position. Had Denjiro freed Sukiyaki, who would go to Kuri (where the swords were) - Hitetsuyaki would have waited for 20 years.

Denjiro could have told Hiyori some years later.

@shut finch @velvet edge @rotund grail you wanted me to elaborate iirc

[shut finch]

Time to read this hell yeah

[rotund grail]

may want to ping evan to get that added to the pins

i will read later, studying atm

thanks for the ping

[pure raven]

@gloomy canyon I did it again, another big one

[shut finch]

That’s a pretty cool theory

The interpretation of the 1041 panel and that being her “shell” or however you phrased it is really interesting

If something even along these lines happened it’d be pretty great

[gentle lily]

wait what if Zoro gets the perpetual youth surgery to save him rn

[hollow kernel]

i feel like Black Maria from the Tobiroppo is kaido's wife for some reason

[hollow kernel]

idk if he needs that cus he escaped death itself

[modest skiff]

this is more of a question/topic for #manga rather than theories channel

[gentle lily]

ok

[rotund grail]

• Denjiro, who would keep Ame no Habakiri and give it to Hiyori

we'd have seen him with it here if that was the case

[tame mortar]

my argument in this case, is simply that Hiyori fell due to the bomb Big Mom set off. Then resume her playing.
Like, that chapter emphasizes that entire Onigashima felt the shockwave.

Marco said beforehand to be careful of falling debris from the ceiling, which is exactly what happened in Orochi's place. Basically:
BM fight -> explosion -> Shockwave across onigashima -> island crumbling -> ceiling falls down.

And Hiyori, being a geisha as she is, can't withstand that tremor. But then resume the play.

[rotund grail]

instead of the 3 leaf clover-esque design that the habakiri has, denjiros sword there has a circular hilt

[pure raven]

not necessarily if it was left in the treasure room

[pure raven]

that's one way of looking at it, the way I present is consistent with the other parts of the theory

[raw laurel]

He also said he won’t stop hitting till he’s OUt of strength

[nocturne swift]

yes yes

[raw laurel]

Post this on Reddit it’s ver good

https://www.reddit.com/r/WildAnimeTheories/comments/t3k6x0/narrative_wise_which_warlord_should_be_arrested/hytl4c4/?context=3

[edgy viper]

Damn this is some good stuff to have with a morning coffee
Really solid writeup

The interpretation with the shell is really interesting considering the clothes of Mythical Zoan users seem to follow different rules than the clothes of regular Zoans

[wild niche]

What ch is this??

[edgy viper]

Two more points that add to the Gumyouchou idea:
A) Hiyori doesn't only have two faces figuratively, but literally: her own and the fox mask that she wears to hide her true emotions
B) It parallels the two facettes of Kozuki Oden: the intanginbly elevated, carefree and cunning and the experienced, responsible and emotional Oden.

One question remains however:
It feels kinda excessive to me to ramp up such a plot just to behead Orochi in some remote room so that Hiyori gets her wish. This would've worked with less than half the paneltime Oda gave them. Do you think there is a greater idea behind it, e.g. a public execution akin to Yasuie, a setup for Hiyori becoming shogun, whatever Orochi might puke up having plot significance, sth like this?

[primal cargo]

The Gumyouchou idea is cool, but from what I can see it doesn't seem to be a very well known myth at all ? Thing isn't even on Wikipedia. And its core idea, that it has two heads that can't properly coexist and even hurt and kill each other, is absent from Hiyori'd character.
Also, Hiyori being a mythical bird is unnecessary to the rest of the theory. The part about flying to hit the ceiling is a very long stretch. The "plot to kill Orochi" plan works fine without any birds getting involved

[lime cape]

Will Law die in Wano?

[cyan berry]

No

[agile tangle]

Maybe Kidd will die but I'm not sure about law

Nah actually scratch that, Kidd won't die

I think big mom will still retain her yonko status and most likely kaido will die somehow which will allow Luffy to become a yonko

[sweet inlet]

You don’t think Law and Kid will become yonko or atleast one of them?

I don’t think big mom is dead but I don’t think she will keep her yonko position

[drowsy gate]

I don't think Luffy's awakening is just transforming everything into gum

[lime cape]

meh in chapter 1041, the bell ring 16 times

🤔 that could be she might be dead

[severe wedge]

Don forget Luffy is Logia

[broken star]

There was a theory about his awakening that included Son Wukong and the gum gum fruit being a mythical zoan.

[slender fulcrum]

It's certainly not indeed. If the gurusei where talking of the gomu gomu no, the name change would be dumb. " Oh it's an elastic elastic fruit , lets change it to gum gum to make people forget what it is " The only reason you could change a DF's name its because its awakening is not the same as the base fruit power. And, apparently, awaken a DF suppose a set of rules that are apparently being reached or about to be reached by Luffy. So Luffy Fighting Kaido ( or Kaido fruit ) might be part of the rule and it's a legendary and a rumor that if both fruit fight one fruit can awaken

[pure raven]

[broken star]

[lime cape]

It is not son wukong, that wouldn't explain why he receive 0 dagame against enel

[broken star]

u can watch oharas theory about his awakening, i cant explain

oh i remember some sentences he said

[lime cape]

I think it could be either of these two things:

• huge luffy
• Make everything around him rubber (it would be an optimal defense against the gura gura)

[broken star]

he said that every mythical zoan has a special ability right, and that son wukong could increase the size of his staff (like namis staff), and that could probably be luffys ability

[sweet inlet]

I don’t think making everything rubber will happen, it just doesn’t seem usually

Useful*

[broken star]

but if his awakening would be he could turn his surroundings into rubber it would be very similiar to how katakuri used his devil fruit

[lime cape]

it wouldn't be edible though

[broken star]

yea it would be a huge danger for the turtles

[lime cape]

why not? if earth were sufficiently flexible there wouldn't be earthquakes

[sweet inlet]

I think it’s just too basic for a MC as the other awakenings we have seen have been to turn things around them to their df, I don’t wanna use the point that he’s an MC so he must be better but if you think about it it kinda just has to happen/makes sense. He has to have something that’s is just unseen and something that is worth a billion berries (I’m pretty sure it was a billion his df was worth)

[slender fulcrum]

My current take on thing. Its a Theory.

The Gurusei knows that there is an old legend saying that a legendary fruit ( call it sun wukong and whatever ) awakened its power after fighting a huge foe, or specifically a Koi fruit user ( or whatever ) 800 years ago. And became known as Joy Boy after.

This is only a rumor and a legend.

Then you have Luffy fighting Kaido toes to toes. And is holding ground.

Then the Gurusei remember about this legend. Then the will of the D. Then they see Zunesha, friend of Joy Boy, coming to wano.

Then they learn that Luffy is holding ground and that the battle is fierce.

Logical conclusion they can make : what if the gum gum fruit is the " sun wukong" fruit had its name has been changed? This would mean than this fruit's awakening could happen at any time since according to the legend it awakened when fighting a dragon / koi fruit user, and give birth to a new " Joy Boy" of this generation.

The thought would make them shiver. And then, they would ask Luffy to be deal with IMMEDIATLY.

You can add all the prophecies and such into the mix and the Gurusei could legit be worried about the turn of event it could take.

Reread every event since the gurusei mentions with that in mind and tell me what you think about it.

[primal cargo]

The line of "Then why did the WG give it another name" makes it clear that they know about the name change for a fact. Only way this can work I think is if they knew that the name was changed, like from "sun wukong fruit" to something, but they didn't know what the "something" was until Luffy showed whatever sign it is that triggered them, at which point they connected the dots and figured the Gum-Gum fruit must be it

[lime cape]

Too basic, it is the logical conclusion, we didn't see any type of paramecia awakening that didn't change the battlefield

[sweet inlet]

What if Luffys fruit isn’t a paramecia tho, his fruit might not even be called the gomu gomu fruit so who knows what else his fruit is or isn’t

[lime cape]

🥲 Now we have a fruit that it is rubber in his basic form and a mythical zoan is its awaken form?

[sweet inlet]

My point exactly

[lime cape]

Deus ex machina

I would be disappointed with oda if that happens

[lone nymph]

Imma lose that bet on the polls because i have a new theory. Luffy will awaken and the sky island he is fighting kaido on will bounce right back up

[lime cape]

that would be nice

[sweet inlet]

Where are the polls to make the bets

[lone nymph]

In events

[sweet inlet]

Thanks

[agile tangle]

Ya I think a lot of people have said that Kidd and law don't have enough territory or followers to be considered yonko. And I feel like just because BM got defeated doesn't make her any less powerful

Wouldn't make sense to replace her with Kidd or law

[primal cargo]

Big Mom's power varies with what "soul weapons" she has, I think we've yet to see peak Big Mom

[tawny elm]

if the wukong theory is true do you think that the wukong transformation would be gear 5 or a seperate thing?

[main oxide]

yoo idk if someone already made this theory but this just came to my mind. We already know that Yonko means "4 emperors" and I just remembered that Luffy was called the "fifth emperor" by Big News Morgans. The number 5 is "Go" in the japanese language and if it combines with the word emperor, we can get a wordplay or a legit word that is "Goko" and the funny thing that came to my mind is that "Goko" can be heard like "Goku" which can be Son Goku/Sun Wukong. I mean it can be connected to the devil fruit the Gorosei have been talking about or it can be just a connection of Luffy to Sun Wukong and no devil fruit included.

[static gate]

I'm in the camp that Luffy's awakening will be vulcanization. The process of vulcanization can be aided by extreme pressure and sulfur. Well this fight is definitely helping with the pressure part and Kaido's bolo breath has sulfur in it? Also the Roman God of Fire is named Vulcan.. Red Hawk?

[broken star]

i wonder if big mom can revive people with soul fruit kinda like with gecko moria but with other peoples personality (souls)

[primal cargo]

She can't, unless the explanation that we got of her powers was a lie

[lime cape]

Isn't that just gear 4th?

[broken star]

It should be an ability, maybe her DF awakening is that, but it probably wouldnt happen since it would be a copy of gecko morias ability and better 💀

[tawny elm]

I like the vulcanization theory and it makes a lot of sense. Also cool that the roman god of fire is named vulcan so has a good link there. I'd be happy with either vulcanization or wukong (although neither could also happen)

[lime cape]

I prefer converting everything into rubber, like onigashima and bounce it back when it falls

[broken star]

I wonder if the Dark Dark fruit would be considered a special logia since its probably intangible when its surroundings are dark (got from ohara).

[static gate]

I mean it could possibly be categorized as that, but vulcanization is synthetic and Luffy hasn't had any outside encounters with sulfur until now (unless you count Akainu's fist lmao)

[lime cape]

of course

[static gate]

Regardless of what it is I'm sure Oda won't disappoint. And since its been alluded to so much hopefully we get an answer soon.

[lime cape]

does dragon breath have sulfur in it?

[quick hatch]

Who would know💀

[pure raven]

Orochi also had Oden have two heads - **Oden **and the foolish lord

[pure raven]

the greater idea could be about Hitetsu's story - which would then connect to Tama's, for example.

and yeah the Kusanagi no Tsurugi could even be Sukiyaki's sword, who knows

[pure raven]

Read up again on what the core idea of this creature is. The conflict between the heads is part of a fable to introduce a concept in buddhism. The point of the heads is to show that they are connected to the same body, and only when they realise this they become enlightened.

The bird part is important, as I decide what's important in the theory I created.

It does explain what happens in 1041, independent on your personal opinion.
It does explain how she would know Momonosuke refused the sword.
How she went to Onigashima.
It connects her to Hitetsuyaki and his treasure Devil Fruits.

[edgy viper]

I think we're going places here

One detailed objection: I don't think Orochi imprisoned Hitetsuyaki in any scenario. We know that Orochi is scared shitless of the Kozuki's ghosts reemerging. If he had Sukiyaki captive at one point and then lost him, wouldn't he have cried about it by now like he does almost all the time?

Also, I cannot fathom Orochi having found the Kokeshi basement. Why would he leave it the way it is? If he found the poneglyph, why not press Momo (or even Kaido) for an explanation on what it is?

I think the most likely scenario, complying with your theory, is that Sukiyaki faked his own death in a very believable manner

[pure raven]

I already thought about that.

He would have imprisoned Sukiyaki without food for years.

When Denjiro found him, months after Oden's death, Denjiro freed him and then told Orochi he opened that door just to see a corpse. He shows a random corpse to Orochi - it is resolved.

Being imprisoned in that room wouldn't be that big of a necessity

[edgy viper]

But why imprison a guy that you already poisoned?
Well ig we never got confirmation Sukiyaki really was poisoned, Oden just had the suspicion and Orochi didn't respond to it

[pure raven]

maybe Orochi didn't even examine the room. He would know it's the place Sukiyaki stays at, and would lock it up, no chance for escape, until one day Sukiyaki went silent. There are multiple possibilities

[pure raven]

well

Kawamatsu was also imprisoned and eating poisonous fish.

[formal steeple]

if he really killed sukiyaki, i guess we would have at least had a panel showing it, like orochi shooting him, but aside from that....orochi is heavily useless. his ancestors also had rather supportive fruits, plus them being rather ancient and fragile, so how? they probably just tricked him and hid away to take his place

[pure raven]

Hitetsu = Sukiyaki
#manga-theories message
Hitetsuyaki is my headcanon

[primal cargo]

Don't get angry. People replying to theories and making arguments for and against is how this channel is supposed to work.
Anyway you're right that the presence of a bird does explain Hiyori's presence in Onigashima, I do expect a bird figure to show up sooner or later in this arc. Personally I'm leaning towards maybe an actual bird, as that could potentially complete both Momo's and Tama's Momotaro parallels. But your thing works too.
The ceiling part however is definitely extrapolating and even if Hiyori does have mythical pheasant power I don't think that part will be true.

It does explain how she would know Momonosuke refused the sword.
What are you referring to here ?

Also another thing that I'm thinking of, when do you propose Hiyori ate the fruit ? Surely if she had bird powers in the Ringo scene in Act 2, she wouldn't have been running from Kamazo on foot.

[split hornet]

Where is denjiro btw

[pure raven]

how am I angry??? You misunderstood my tone, I replied to what you mentioned of relevant to the theory, did I not?

The ceiling part however is definitely extrapolating and even if Hiyori does have mythical pheasant power I don't think that part will be true.
personal belief, argument from incredulity, I already covered it

What are you referring to here ?
In this theory, she would bring Ame no Habakiri to Onigashima to kill Orochi. How would she know Momonosuke didn't take the sword from Hitetsu? Either Oda would pull an "intuition" or Hiyori was there. Or Hiyori met Hitetsu after that moment, and then asked for a sword, though I believe that removes intention from the use of her father's sword in this context.

Also another thing that I'm thinking of, when do you propose Hiyori ate the fruit ? Surely if she had bird powers in the Ringo scene in Act 2, she wouldn't have been running from Kamazo on foot.
Personally I do not think the bird is big enough to carry Toko - as it would also be small enough so the others don't notice it in Amigasa.

[primal cargo]

Right forget about the angry part then lol

[pure raven]

but I guess there could be some type of hybrid in play

[tame mortar]

This is literally my theory I wrote during that 2-week break when Luffy says "Gear 4th" at the end of chapter vs Doffy, back in Oro Jackson

[pure raven]

the bird is both shown small and cute and big and elegant

I personally believe this is the type of fable Oda values

[primal cargo]

But she did carry Ame no habakiri herself to Onigashima right ? That thing must be heavy af

[tame mortar]

I believe that the "Bird" is Marco's Phoenix

Bird, Monkey, Dog
Marco, Luffy, Yamato

[primal cargo]

Maybe not as heavy as Otoko alright
But I think it would be weird like we would need the bird to be a very specific size for one to work and not the other

[edgy viper]

I just wanna chip in how damn suspicious the fact is that Toko seemingly ran from Ringo to the FC in mere minutes

[pure raven]

Ok you're making me go way deep into other headcanons I have, I like that.

Ame no Habakiri could be the opposite of Enma - the use of the feather kanji for the archaic "large snake" would help that notion - and the modern literal sense being "feathery slasher of heaven". It would be too light, too "easy" to move around, and it wouldn't have the normal weight that a sword needs to cut.

well I gtg, but I will read your replies when I get back

[lime cape]

and momo is momotaro

[primal cargo]

In the Shokugeki no Sanji (or whatever it's called) episode that's in Wano, Sanji literally "wanders off" from the FC to the beach of Kuri and he's like "oh I didn't notice"

There are many reasons to believe Wano is actually pretty small ?

[edgy viper]

So Enma cuts excessively and Ame no Kabakiri doesn't cut at all if you're not a trained swordsman?
Ngl I like that a lot

[primal cargo]

That's a very good one

[pure raven]

yeah!!

Enma pushes the haki out until you have no more.
Ame no Habakiri requires you to put so much haki into it you would have no more.

[edgy viper]

Wano's geography is a hot mess as is
Linlin and her entourage took almost two days from Kuri Beach to Udon on a crocoshark
Ebisu is basically a wandering town based in the panels we have. It's in the south, west and east of the FC at the same time

Either Wano is really, really small or it's gargantuan
We have conflicting evidence

[edgy viper]

I like the fact that for this to be true Hiyori gotta be a top-notch Samurai
Not too far-fetched, she probably trained under Denjiro

[pure raven]

Meaning Orochi's "disgusting, begging, puking" condition would be important. Also a reference to how his "scales" were never a problem to cut.

he was never the big fish

[edgy viper]

Fits the theme of cute princesses being badass combatants secretly

[primal cargo]

What sources are you using for the Gumyouchou stuff ? It still looks niche af to me

[pure raven]

I don't think it's necessary for her to be a super samurai. I just think Orochi will be so weak and pathetic even a sheet of paper would cut his head in that moment

[pure raven]

I shared a link. There is also the chinese wikipedia and multiple japanese sites.

I posted the kanji for the bird so you would be able to search yourself - 共命鳥

[edgy viper]

Yeah that's the panel
As is Sukiyaki could've escaped using a body double that Orochi gobbled up. Nothing here necessarily indicates that he was fatally poisoned

[pure raven]

references to characters like Okiyo (the Oni Princess that betrayed the Oni for love in one Momotaro sequel from the 18th century iirc) is also very niche. You can only really find good references in japanese. It exists nonetheless

[pure raven]

yeah and then Denjiro being the one to free him works for:

• Hitetsu waiting 20 years
• Hiyori knowing that Hitetsu has the swords.

[edgy viper]

But doesn't that diminish the idea behind Enma and AnH being polar opposites? If we adhere to that I think Denjiro training her would make more sense
Doesn't ring that to use Enma properly you need to be Zoro and to use AnH properly you just need to know which side of the blade is the sharp one.
Unless Oda explicitly makes a point out of the fact that, as you said, Orochi is so scared he would've been cut by a falling leaf at that point. Can't rule that out ig

[primal cargo]

Yes I checked out your link and searched a little for myself including in japanese, and it really isn't very common. But you're right that it doesn't disqualify it

[pure raven]

No, I don't think it would. Denjiro would have trained her, sure, but Orochi being in a pathetic state that makes his scales weaker than they already were is in line with how we've seen this type of defense work. And it works to humiliate Orochi.

Idk where you got that idea, AnH would NOT cut anything normally either way. It's just that Orochi's sorry state would help Hiyori - she wouldn't have to be THAAAT crazy of a swordswoman.

[tulip reef]

Something I though of last night, so here goes. The devil fruit the gorosei is talking about is Tamas fruit, because it's awakening would be able to control not animals, but humans. Thoughts?

[edgy viper]

The idea of AnH not cutting shit is the logical conclusion of your proposition that Enma and AnH are opposites I would say
Because Enma cuts whatever it wants and you have to tame it
So AnH wouldn't want to cut anything and you have to make it do

But weakened scales probably suffice as an explanation narratively

[primal cargo]

Did she ? Both of them were dealing in extreme secrecy, meeting in a closed room is one thing and training for thousands of hours outside with gear and stuff is another. Not to mention Hiyori would have gotten ripped

[abstract pond]

Why would Hitetsu wait 20 years watching Orochi destroy Wano and killing Oden?
It was Oden who knew that something would happen in 20 years not him

[edgy viper]

We've never seen her without her lavish dresses, have we?
But the logistics is a problem, I agree

[primal cargo]

I'm sure we can keep the AnH idea and say she can do it thanks to her strong feelings or something

[edgy viper]

Toki's prophecy
Toki was the last one to possess AnH and Enma. Those two wound up at Hitetsu's so it would be natural for the prophecy to do, too

[edgy viper]

Strong feelings + severly weakened Orochi sounds good

[primal cargo]

Most likely the Kozuki have kept some amount of knowledge (by passing it down or because it's written on a Poneglyph), that could include "the Kozuki bloodline must stay alive no matter the cost"
So he kept himself alive despite wanting do die for all the shame he has suffered, in case Momo and Hiyori didn't make it

[abstract pond]

But then again, he did nothing to help Oden? During the years before Toki said anything about the prophecy

[primal cargo]

Neither did Yasuie tbh

or Hyogoro or anyone

[barren yacht]

A very easy escape from this can be being imprisoned by orochi and later managed to escape and since then he has been waiting in the shadows for 20yrs
May be he found AnH from kawamatsu coz somehow they knew he has it

[abstract pond]

Then the question is, why Orochi let him live?

[river pebble]

coz

[solar knoll]

If you can break the great leaders you can break all his followers

[abstract pond]

But Orochi had complete control with Kaido support. And everyone thought Hitetsu died.

[edgy viper]

Two reasons:

A) Think about Oden from the perspective of Sukiyaki and the other Daimyos. Dude spent 18 years ramapging his own country, trying to illegaly escape and casually collecting other people's wives like Hitetsu collects Kokeshi dolls
Then just when everyone thought he lived up to his heritage by pacifying Kuri, the little fucker boards Whitebeard's ship and vanishes for years. After coming back, the first thing he does is exposing his noodle before the entire populace.
Now consider the ridiculous honor-fetish the Wanoese have, constantly feeling the need to commit Seppuku over the tiniest of blunders. Heck, Kawamatdu wanted to commit Seppuku because Hiyori decided for herself that she needs to leave. Put yourself in Sukiyaki's shoes and ask: Would you have come out of hiding to aid Oden? Tbh I don't think I would have. Especially not when the adversary is Kaido.

B) Sunnachi. Sukiyaki couldn't commit Seppuku because of the prophecy. Thus, he committed Sunnachi, the next best thing. And as I understand it, once you yield your name, there is no way back.

Edit: If Hitetsu = Sukiyaki is correct, I strongly believe that Sukiyaki has some kind of knowledge regarding the JoyBoy prophecy. Surely the nation that constructed the poneglyphs kept some kind of hidden record on their history and the expected resurfacing of JoyBoy that is only accessible to the Kozuki. I would say that's the poneglyph in the Kokeshi basement

Edit 2, definitive evidence for why Sukiyaki wouldn't come out to help Oden:
For all that Sukiyaki knows, it was Oden that brought Orochi to Kozuki castle (ofc it was Higurashi in disguise). So to Sukiyaki, the whole situation is the result of Oden's deeds

[near beacon]

How are Admirals able to fight for 10 days, this doesn't make sense in the slightest unless....
CoC can be applied to stuff like endurance, stamina and speed. This could explain Shanks being able to skip time for a few seconds i.e manipulate the flow of time (though unconfirmed yet but was shown in the game)
And maybe has the ability to cut through space itself. I think CoC application to fists and weapons is just the tip of the iceburg.

[barren yacht]

For coc application That will be too much ig but who knows
As for the 10day fight shit I never understood it either
Also what do you imply by cutting space

[near beacon]

this

[abstract pond]

A) 100% Would Sukiyaki go with Oden to fight Orochi. It's the best shot they would have to take him down and Sukiyaki knows Oden and knows he is not a coward nor a idiot. They would unite all of Wano against Kaido and Orochi.

B) I don't know what you trying to say here.

For the edit 2: It was Yasuie who trusted Orochi first and told Oden to take care of him. Yasuie could have told Sukiyaki that something fishy was with Orochi if Sukiyaki was alive and Oden returned.