manga-theories

[weak arrow]

Well if it's a fruit that's on onigashima, any of the cp0 agents could have reported it. If it's zunesha, the people on the ship could have reported it. If it's somewhere outside of wano, they'd still get that information from random lackey #5

[oak mortar]

im not talking about which is the real fruit, im only talking about the discussion being done and HOW they know why this fruit has a fake name

we are sooo curious about which fruit it is that we sometimes forget to read between the lines of what theyre saying

#manga-theories message like how this is explain( im sending this link a 2nd time now) 😛

[oak mortar]

so if Cp0 is in wano which are the only guys in the world govt. wouldnt that raise eyebrows that its a fruit in the raid? Or we can try to name a fruit that cp0 saw before the raid?

soo im leading to being more convinced that cp0 saw it

[weak arrow]

The thing is, CP0 and other CP branches are elsewhere in the world and could report something.

[oak mortar]

heres the thing now. the world govt is now in wano. not where the other CP branches are

[weak arrow]

The World Government is all over the world. They didn't send their entire force to wano, thus can only receive reports from there.

[oak mortar]

then why have this panel in the first place with zunesha in wano and the world govt right there?

[weak arrow]

For misdirection

[oak mortar]

soo these panels were for nothing then? thats a complete misdirection. a mystery has to have atleast a direction especially in a story

[weak arrow]

There is still a lot of mystery. That's why no one has been able to nail an answer.

And there is a direction, as we still have reasonable guesses.

If you think there isn't any misdirection, then the answer is Zunesha.

[oak mortar]

lol not at all

If theres direction its linked to wano and their fruits....... not just zunesha

but misdirection is completely out of wano

[weak arrow]

The implication is its zunesha. You have to believe in misdirection if you believe it's anything other than Zunesha.

[oak mortar]

I guess thats based on the persons perspective on how you would look at the situation

[weak arrow]

No, the chapter is clearly implicating that the gorosei are talking about Zunesha. Just like how Marco giving a note to Neko was implicating he wasn't going to Wano. However, that note was a misdirection, but its implication is clear.

When you read that chapter, the first thing that comes to your mind is going to be "Wow Zunesha is what the gorosei are talking about."

[oak mortar]

umm so leading to your idea of misdirection ill just copy paste this link again on this theory that may lead to misdirections then 😛 p.s thats the 3rd time its being posted #manga-theories message

im not trying to find the answer, im just trying to be some sort of detective

[weak arrow]

Yeah and Ive said i dont really find that interpretation to be a valid one.

[oak mortar]

well it does make sense regardless though

looking at it as if it can be any fruit.....

[modest skiff]

You are the one saying what you said makes sense. The issue is that other people are not agreeing. In general, people will try to find what doesn’t make sense and make adjustments rather than say “yes it does”

[red anvil]

The Gorosei panel and the Marine panel should be same time. Oda usually cues a flashback with black background (see King’s flashback of Kaido). However, there’s no black border here.

Replying to this

[tiny hatch]

wait does D stand for Dawn?

[errant rune]

"Out There" Theory/prediction

What if, when Zoro defeats or (for the sake of this prediction) Kills Shiryu and somehow gets his DF and gives it as a gift it to Sanji
Thus making one of Sanjis Dreams come true
Most likely won't happen, but it would be dope AF

[lost spoke]

Thank you very much!

[modest skiff]

No one knows what it stands for. Hasn’t been revealed

[whole rivet]

No problemo!

[solar knoll]

Dawn Bringers

[muted ember]

Is BB a dawn bringer?

[warm saffron]

He would have to learn how to take away a dead person’s devil fruit first, which is a skill only the captains of the 4th yonko’s crew know how to do

[vestal orbit]

so he leaves the crew, offers to join blackbeard, kills shiryu to prove himself, learns how to extract his fruit, and joins the crew again to give it back to sanji ezpz

[warm saffron]

Doubt that would happen
Zoro has already left the mugiwara’s once, he won’t do it again

And that one time wasn’t canon, but it was still a decent movie

[vestal orbit]

no it's the most logical direction to take his character he needs to kill any competitors he might have for the title of world's greatest swordsman before he fights mihawk

[warm saffron]

Not really
He wouldn’t kill every single one of his competitors, I bet you he wouldn’t even kill mihawk, but instead defeat him and make mihawk acknowledge him as the next in line for the worlds greatest swordsman

[vestal orbit]

that's because he's too stupid he's going to learn to be more efficient and ruthless from beating up king and copy his pragmatism by sailing around and killing anyone he sees even glance at a sword before he kills mihawk

[warm saffron]

I’m sorry I thought we talking about zoro at the start of this conversation
Zoro doesn’t kill, he defeats his opponents and tells them to get stronger, like mihawk
He did this at fishmen island, he faced the two strongest swordsman there, defeated them, and then told them to get stronger

[vestal orbit]

ye so he's going to copy king and be more pragmatic it only makes sense

[warm saffron]

When he fought king, and defeated him, he used traditional moves, not anything to win
Zoro still has pride in his swordsmanship

[vestal orbit]

clear lance wsan't traditional he's learning that he has to be more pragmatic which is why he'll leave the straw hats and wander around the seas killing every swordsman he comes across that's the perfect direction to take his character

[warm saffron]

The king of hell move was a swordsman move that wasn’t in the the style of doing anything to win

[vestal orbit]

He should have fallen off of onigashima and died iff he was a traditional swordsman now that he’s more pragmatic he’ll have to come to terms woth the fact that he’ll have to get rid of rivals if he wants to be the world’s strongest swordsman

[warm saffron]

The normal swordsman would have died
But we’re talking about zoro
He literally has about two moves now to combat falling
Mihawk never got rid of his rivals, just told them to get stronger and face him another day

If mihawk didn’t kill
Zoro wouldn’t have to as well

[vestal orbit]

Ya so he’s pragmatic now which is why he’ll abandon his captain and sail the seas killing anyone he sees within 50 feet of a sword before killing Shiryu to join Blackbeard’s crew immediately before defecting back to the straw hats for the sole purpose of giving his fruit to sanji and promptly leaving once again this is the only development for his character that I can see making sense

[warm saffron]

That’s the only development I can’t see making sense
Luffy would never allow it to happen
When Robin forced herself to leave the group, the rest of the crew forced their way into enies lobby
When Nami forced herself out of the crew, the rest of the crew forced their way into Arlong park to save her
Zoro, the essentially second in command of the mugiwara pirates, would never abandon the crew under any such circumstances
Luffy and the mugiwara’s will fight Blackbeard one day, and seeing how they haven’t yet, it means he is far more stronger than big mom and kaido
Until luffy becomes the pirate king, explores all the islands, and everyone in the crew fulfilled their ambitions, no one would be leaving permanently

[lament trout]

If we believe in misdirection from Oda the theory is simple: the DF the Goro are talking about is Luffys. Why else introduce all this plot with Whos Who and Shanks suddenly showing up to talk about a Pirate? Call me crazy it all points to Luffy

[inland wave]

i wonder what the gomu gomu fruit could really be

[lament trout]

Also Higoro comments how he looks like a deity in Gear 4 he grows tattoos that are clearly not coc coating that has nothing to do with Rubber imo

[inland wave]

who's higoro?

oh, the yakuza boss

[lament trout]

Yeah the dude that teaches him

Mythical DF Model Monkey King lol

[inland wave]

but i would hate it if that was true

[lament trout]

Yeah it would be Goku

[grizzled fog]

Except that the way the gorosei speak of this mystery fruit makes it very odd if it’s luffy’s. They speak of it like it’s a mysterious power they know almost nothing about, but they once were in possession of luffy’s fruit, and it’s been used in numerous incidents with the government and special attention was never drawn to it.

[lament trout]

But the staff does change shape so could explain why it looks like rubber

[inland wave]

nope - i predict that luffy's not going to be the monkey king or have the monkey king df

[lament trout]

Perfect place to hide in plain site? Maybe an Imu sama mistake or Shanks somehow knew and that’s why he took it?

[warm saffron]

It couldn’t be becasue otherwise shanks would’ve called it the akuma no mi instead of its real name, the gomu gomu no mi when he showed it to luffy
Luffy wouldn’t have known its name, let alone people like who’s who, who was guarding it at the time when shanks stole it
If it was luffy’s, everyone would’ve called the akuma no mi instead of the gomu gomu no mi

[inland wave]

what's akuma, monkey?

[grizzled fog]

None of that explains why they speak of it like it’s a legend they know nothing about, when they clearly have experience with it

[lament trout]

Giving it to Whos Who to guard as the rubber df is a perfect place not to draw attention to it it’s a weak paramercia

[warm saffron]

Akuma means devil in Japanese

[inland wave]

devil devil fruit...na..., oh but

[lament trout]

Imu hides it by calling it gomu and giving it to cp to guard

Ppl pass on it because its a weak fruit

Except roger knows and so does shanks or something

[warm saffron]

So, he calls it the obvious, thinking that nobody would ever think twice about it

[inland wave]

y'know how oda said that if a human ate the human human fruit, they become true human or smt ? what if a person with a devil fruit eats the devil devil fruit and becomes a true devil or smt. sounds dumb but that's what's in my mind

[warm saffron]

So, they would look more like a devil compared to nico robins transformation?

[lament trout]

We are implying its a mythical fruit and Luffy just doesn’t know it Gear 4 tattoos and him looking like a deity are a precursor of the confirmed “gear 5” which will show the true name

We have a progression imho where logia are no longer top

Mythical DF + COC is top imho

Kaido Yamato now Luffy

Oda just showing us the power lvls that Luffy needs no way a paramecia df gets there

[inland wave]

hmm, the tattoos are formed from steam, or that's what it appears to be. what if ... the straw hat is seccretly a devil fruit holder...that gives a power like this?

[warm saffron]

Look
I know that they talk highly of the gomu gomu no mi
But, I don’t think it’s luffy devil fruit
I don’t even know if oda will do a gear 5
If he does, it would most likely be done after wano, and it would probably depend most of it’s energy to conquerors haki ryuo

[lament trout]

I think a Gear 2 version of Bound or Snake man if that makes sense a more slim form ultra fast

With coc and ryou of course

[inland wave]

Gear 2 was created during the fight with Lucci right ? Gear 3, I dont remember. When was it?

[lament trout]

Unless Oda goes completely insane and gives us a giant Luffy lol

[lament trout]

Big hands which doesn’t really deflate him anymore

[warm saffron]

That does sound like the most logical option
And with ryou, of course
But, if he reveals it now, and it’s just enough to beat kaido, then he’ll have to use a stronger gear to defeat the other yonko’s not fought yet, like Blackbeard and shanks
Because they haven’t appeared yet means they are most likely stronger than kaido and big mom

[warm saffron]

Oh, gear 2 and 3 were created after luffy fought with aokiji

[lament trout]

Not necessarily BB is the last boss but he is not fighting Shanks Imo unless he is Imu sama lap dog and has been an informant I think that after Wano we get some Elbaf or another journey mini arc or Sabo rescue before the big fight

[inland wave]

Blackbeard disables luffy's df, meaning that luffy would have to fight solely with haki. This means that luffy would have to reach max conquerer's, observation, armament haki in the end ? or smt like that

[lament trout]

Also Oda said that Wano was gonna be bigger than Marinford so it’s still possible we get a buster call or some 3rd party interference aside from WG that warrants the appearance of the SH grand fleet so the crew can escape

[inland wave]

i wonder what that giant shadow would be.

[lament trout]

Yeah his haki would need to be ultimate level

[inland wave]

his eyes would become permanently red, his skin would become permanently black like a black blade, his aura would split clouds everywhere and everyone in the world would fall unconscious. Then he would fall asleep and the story ends quite tragically

[lament trout]

Lol

[inland wave]

like it?

[worthy sinew]

I think it'll make more sense for the strawhats to stay and fight off any marine or world government interference tbh
Like maybe not even a big fight but a showdown with the marines realising that the strawhats are too much for them to handle and them escaping instead
Would be when he is officially recognized as an emperor

[stiff patrol]

Just gon point out that the gum gum fruit was estimated by the world goverment to be worth 5 million, the same as the opi opi no mi which they valued increadibly highly. Now why would they put such a huge price on the gum gum fruit? Why would they throw whos who in prison and torture him solely because he lost it to shanks? The gum gum fruit has to be something more

[muted ember]

Where does it say how much the Gomu Gomu is worth?

[formal marsh]

Both G2 and G3 were envisioned after luffy fight vs cp9 in water7. G2 was first used vs Blueno and G3 first used against a gate in the way to fight Lucci

[formal marsh]

romance dawn v2... I wouldn't consider it an official value

[inland wave]

'kay

[abstract pond]

Wasn't the ope ope fruit 5 billion what the wg going to pay for it?

[stiff patrol]

Yep, they were going to pay 5 billion

[abstract pond]

That's 1000 times the price of the gomu gomu then

[muted ember]

The price he gave for the Gomu Gomu is from the one shot anyways, not the current canon story

[warm saffron]

Luffy did state in punk hazard when he made the deal with law,’i wan tto defeat all the yonko’s’

[sand light]

I wonder if Imu wants the Ope Ope

Or even better if he wants it again.

Like what if it was used on him before and he wants to keep an eye on it.

[karmic fjord]

what if thats the fruit the wg wants

[keen dock]

i m now gonna tell u guys a story of long long ago way back before i was even born.... (spoilers ahead) ||there was a king... known as pirate king... he was a true king in everyone's heart.... he conquered the whole world, even the 7 moons... turned the world upsite down. found the legendary treasure... discovered the truth of the void century, started war against the whole world government, did the undone thing of the legendary figure who existed 800 yers ago.... before him the previous king found the legendary treasure... he knew every truth of this world... so he provoked the whole world for the legendary treasure cuz he knew there will be a true king in this new era.... it was the story about that true king.... even if this happened before my birth... this story is yet to be told in a manga called|| "ONE PIECE''

[upper crater]

I'm thinking if it's Toki's fruit, considering how she was time traveling, and it being a legend to the gorosei means they haven't seen it in a while.

[karmic fjord]

what do u think luffys awakening will look like cause if u watched the flash the elongated(same abality as luffy)guy could change his appearence

[sand light]

I think it's the fruits of the All-Stars.

[abstract pond]

Either him or some celestial dragon wants immortality

[sand light]

They are actually models of the rare Ancient Times fruits

[upper crater]

drake has ancient fruit too and he's part of the government, so dont think it's that surprising to them

[sand light]

He has a zoan.

But in ancient times. That was who plants hunted.

[sand light]

Jk around

[pure raven]

It's kinda weird that dr. Wegapunk is genius and yet he didn't created nuke

I mean marines would be ruling the sea if that happened but what they r using pacifista whome luffy one shots

https://tenor.com/view/destory-eexplode-nuke-gif-6073338

Nukes peace ✌

[sand light]

Perhaps he's also a humanist

[shadow ruin]

Nukes and its over

People underestimate how strong they are but they are extremely op

[fading sierra]

Gum gum nuke

[inland wave]

Luffy can survive nukes...ahahaahah

[sand light]

Gear 5 theory!

Spring man!

Luffy gets the ability to mold his body/skin like hot rubber better than ever before!

Taking inspiration from Katakuri's mochi!

Allowing him to fly against Kaidou like a spring mid air.

Squeezing into a narrow band, twirling in the air, that sort of thing.

[somber sphinx]

Whole cake - sanji backstory expansion

wano - zoro backstory expansion next is luffy?

[stiff patrol]

I just realized that I completely forgot about dr vegapunk 🤣, but I was just remembmbering how sabo has a piece of luffys vivra card cause of Ohara. What if he managed to escape the reverie with vivi, and is now on his way to wano with vivi and the revolutionary’s to help luffy. It would make sense

[wide lagoon]

Prolly

[muted ember]

This is just the last theory Ohara put out

[split glacier]

They don't even have aeroplanes or cars lol. Despite some things being advanced I think they missed a few steps.

[burnt hazel]

But know how to create one using guru guru nomi

[stiff patrol]

Yeah cause I just watched it, was very good and made me actually think about it. Before watching jt j thought we we’re gonna have marineford 2.0

[primal cargo]

Luffy already has a billion allies in Wano. We even got frickin Zunesha over here now. Why would we need the revolutionaries, plus why would they care about Wano. I'm not sure they're even aware that there's stuff going down in Wano, we've only seen WG higher ups talk about it I think

[primal cargo]

I'm kind of expecting Marineford 2.0 tbh

[sand light]

No cars but they have tanks

[stiff patrol]

……. Luffys vivra card which sabo has, he maybe saw it reducing like like Luffy saw aces reducing

[sand light]

Personally I don't feel like Luffy is cut out for even protecting talk less of ruling and adminstration.

Perhaps Sabo/ Dragon can fill that.

[primal cargo]

You mean they would just kinda come over after the fight is won to take care of Wano for an indeterminate amount of time on behalf of Luffy ?
I don't think the revolutionaries are going to "fill" anything, rather they're going to be on the frontline against the WG.

[sand light]

Not Wano. They have the shogunate and Kozuki.

But after WG Fall

[primal cargo]

Ah right well that's completely different from the "Sabo coming to Wano" argument then. Sure I could see that

[edgy leaf]

Just a random thing I'm too lazy to make a reddit post of:
What if Kaido isn't a completely sucky dad, and the "oni race" is another race persecuted by the world government. And Kaido wanted to make Yamato the shogun of Wano because he wanted to bring the onis back/make a safe home for the remainders of the onis. Seeing as Black Maria has the reddish horns too, she could be another member of that race

[sand light]

New here.

Could you summarize this Oni theory?

I seem to pick up that Kaido and Yamato are from another race?

[edgy leaf]

Kaido's referred to himself and Yamato as onis, could just be a symbolic thing or whatever, but seeing as all three have connecting features, Black Maria and Yamato have red on their horns, and Kaido and Black Maria especially are crazy tall. Wano could be the ancestral home of the onis or something, explaining why Black Maria is from Wano

[sand light]

Wow
Thanks.

That makes it all come together now

[sand light]

I understand...

Btw can I get good Gear 5 theories that aren't black Luffy?

Mine was apparently laughable.⬆️

[night lava]

No, no gear 5, just plot armor

[thin tide]

I read an sbs (Volume 98) where Oda hinted gear 5, but this is the only evidence i have so far

But, i do believe gear 5 will come at some point in the story

[slim moat]

I wonder what role Vagapunk will play in future arcs. He is all over the manga for a long time. He should be featured as main guy in at least one arc.

[thin tide]

I really want to know his backstory and what secrets it will unlock for the one piece world

[slim moat]

If Wano is some 100 chapters length, we would'v had his story by now.

[thin tide]

Maybe

But i believe wano is about 100 chapters long (i believe past that by now)

[sand light]

Perhaps he'll be at the head of the SSG.

[thin tide]

Didnt wano begin around chapter 904 or 905?

[sand light]

Can't have a science group to overthrow Warlords without your top scientist.

[thin tide]

Current chapter is 1037

[sand light]

890 actually.

[thin tide]

Oh ok thanks

[sand light]

Just checked it out.

But what ties would Vegapunk have to Wano?

[slim moat]

No. It starts from 909. .

[pure raven]

Thats anime ,in manga starts from chp909

[strange shell]

Fans like to overhype how strong the One Piece verse is

which leads to them being able to tank nukes

[dire harbor]

next is usopp, they're def going to Elbaf next

[muted ember]

Then Nami

[muted ember]

So do I

But I doubt it will be a Sabo rescue arc, I think Garp's going to die

[runic osprey]

We either get a sabo rescue arc or potentially a robin rescue arc

I would prefer a marineford 2.0 arc i wanna see the navy in action again

Cant be bothered to have a robin rescue arc again really tired of it

[oak mortar]

i have a curious theory about luffy's swimming?
it was told in chapter 1 that luffy already couldn't swim BEFORE eating his devil fruit.

also in chapter 2 when luffy went into the whirlpool in a barrel and ended up in alvida's ship (after he ate the devil fruit) he mentioned
"i got soo dizzy i thought i was going to barf."
also the japanese version also says a very different version than the english version
"I turned my eyes and thought that i was going to die"
when youre in water you should be in a hurry to get out correct? and also the fact that he couldnt breathe at all. but instead "his eyes turned and thought he was going to die"
And then with losing to kaido and luffy in the water sinking. and on chapter 1015 this panel appeared from his consciousness. and then in chapter 1019 he mentions that he needs meat too regenerate about the fact that he maybe cannot swim in the first place?
So what if the fruit of the devil can not draw as much power as it should when luffy is in the water because he already couldn't swim in the first place?
The continuation is here below
#manga-theories message

[reef sandal]

dfs make you not able to function when fully submerged in water, that's how it works for everyone

[modest skiff]

It’s not your ability to swim, your whole body is paralyzed, which prevents swimming. That’s why Jack was basically in stasis after Zunesha bonked him

[oak mortar]

yeah totally its just weird as im looking at this. especially how shanks worded " luffy, do you know why we call you "anchor"? Because you cant swim- you just sink!.... what good is a pirate who can't swim? devil fruits already make you sink but he would sink regardless even without one a devil fruit?

[reef sandal]

that's just how people who don't know how to stay afloat in water work

[modest skiff]

Humans only float after they die because their bodies fill with gas from decomposition. But if you can’t swim, you sink

[mint kelp]

Has anybody thought what happened to the fight between shanks and kaido before he came to the marine ford

[oak mortar]

yeah the answer is definitely common sense. im defintely going out of my way here because its one piece

[modest skiff]

It’s the right perspective though. Take nothing for granted imo. I think this kind of suspicion is a good thing to do. But it won’t always pan out. It’s still fun though lol

[ancient vault]

Luffy said he w thought he was going to die because he was in a barrel no way to move

[modest skiff]

My totally baseless head canon is that Shanks knows about prophecy stuff and he told Kaido if he goes back to Wano, he’ll have a battle much more intense than what is happening at marineford. I think Kaido knows Shanks has insights into the future or is able to predict things well so he trusted him and left

[ancient vault]

but that was only 2 years ago

[reef sandal]

i think shanks just reminded him that he would be leaving his territory open if he went to marineford

[ancient vault]

Kaido settled in wano 25 years ago

[mint kelp]

Bruh who tf decided that shanks could predict the future

[modest skiff]

I don’t mean he said “go take over Wano” I mean “go back to Wano, the place you just now traveled from, since that’s your base”

[ancient vault]

he knows sth about joyboy. Shanks is clearly actively working in luffys favor

[reef sandal]

there wouldn't be a fight there at the time tho

[mint kelp]

Ye but like that doesnt mean he could predict the future

[ancient vault]

Also Kaido noticed Oden talking about JoyBoy and wano being open in 20 years

[ancient vault]

he knows the 20 year time period which Oden also often talked about later in wano

[modest skiff]

Sorry, I should be more clear. I’m saying that Shanks told Kaido “go back to Wano and wait for your glorious battle. If you go to marineford now, you will disrupt events that lead to your glorious battle. You’ll get your time, but you need to wait. So go back to your base in Wano and wait. Your enemy you’ve wanted will show up eventually”

[reef sandal]

the effect would be achieved if shanks just crossed his path and was like "oh yeah omw to wano boutta overturn a dynasty"

[mint kelp]

What episode did oden talk about joyboy

[ancient vault]

ig he didnt talk about joyboy in particular here but he heard him talk about wano having to be opened and a certain figure appearing in 20 years

I think thats clear enough for Kaido

[mint kelp]

I think he means wano was closed 800 years ago and somebody in the future will come open it after all that time

[ancient vault]

He literally says that Wano needs to be open for JoyBoy to come

[modest skiff]

I think what you mean to say is that Wano needs to be open prior to the day of Joyboy's arrival? Interestingly, that points against Luffy or Usopp being joyboy, since they are both clearly already in Wano.

Separately, one question that has commonly come up is why Sukiyaki, if he is hitetsu, chose to remain in hiding for so long and chose not to engage with Momo. Now that Zunesha has showed up, it is possible the Kozuki clan are aware of the need for a kozuki to be alive when Zunesha shows up in order to command them to open Wano/evacuate Wano in some way. It is possible that at least 1 Kozuki must be alive once Zunesha shows up in order to command Zunesha to do something. Even if that means letting Momo die, he would be bound by duty to make sure he himself survives

[ancient vault]

where did we get usopp from?

[modest skiff]

I think its a non-zero possibility. Not saying it is hugely probable, but I don't think its entirely impossible either

[ancient vault]

thats the ideal thing. I dont think it speaks against it considering it was Kaido that interrupted it knowing damn well JoyBoy was gonna come to Wano one day

[modest skiff]

Kaido may not have seen the two events as mutually exclusive. Why not both? If Kaido has no idea going to MF might impact his eventual glorious battle, may as well do both. But if Shanks warned him against it, I think Kaido has reason to take Shanks seriously

[ancient vault]

It was said tho Oden and Roger tried to talk to Zunesha but couldnt while Momo could considering he said at the end of the arc he wants to talk with Zunesha and now zunesha is in wano

[ancient vault]

What events do you mean?

It might be an amatsuki thing not kozuki thing

or its just momo exlusively

[modest skiff]

I'll be more clear: I think Shanks is well versed in all this prophecy mumbo jumbo. I think Shanks sees Luffy as some kinda important role in freeing the world from the CDs. I think both Yonkos and the Gorosei are aware of some kind of fact about Shanks which means he is an extremely reliable source of information. How he knows what he knows, I won't speculate, but I think people have it in their head "If Shanks says something, listen to him".

Maybe I am getting the story mixed up. As I understand, Kaido was on his way to Marineford during the great war and he was stopped by Shanks. Shanks, through some mechanism, convinced Kaido to not go to MF. I don't think it was some glorious battle and Kaido ran away scared. I think they briefly sparred for a bit in the typical smirky way big names fight briefly typically. I think Shanks told Kaido "If you go to MF, the fight you have wanted will not happen. You are wrong to think it is smart for you to go there. Turn back, go back to Wano, continue what you are doing there and your time will come"

Separately, Kaido knows that Joyboy shows up at Wano at some point. As for what Kaido knows about Joyboy, we don't know. But he seems to understand that Joyboy is supposed to fundamentally turn the world upside down. Perhaps Kaido knows Joyboy is also very powerful or perhaps it is just him assuming overwhelming strength is necessary to change the world.

One of the reasons Kaido is in Wano is (presumably) to meet Joyboy. Likely among other reasons, as you have described in your theories. If Kaido is assuming his big glorious battle some day will involve Joyboy, he would want to preserve that, given the prestige around Joyboy.

If Kaido wanted to go to MF for a glorious battle, then Shanks told Kaido "hey, if you do this, you will probably not get your big battle involving joyboy", I think Kaido would turn around and go back to Wano and decide against going to MF.

[ancient vault]

Yeah I agree with that. Not sure if Shanks explicitely mentioned JoyBoy or just told him what you said in the second paragraph but I completely agree with this notion

[modest skiff]

That's a really good point. That would be fascinating. One thing to consider though is: Did Oden ever actually try to COMMAND Zunesha, or did he just try to initiate contact? If he never ordered a formal command, such that Zunesha could hear it, it could be that it just never happened because of that.

Oden appeared to hear seakings and whatnot, but momo seems to be able to go a step beyond.

[oak mortar]

This could of been realized that momo heard the voice of zunesha being desperate to offer a command to zunesha because zunesha was being attacked by jack. So when oden was on zunesha at the time it didnt seem to be attacked soo oden probably couldnt know as zunesha didnt feel desperate to be commanded

[modest skiff]

good point

Need to re-read that panel

[vale basin]

Zunesha comin again to save Robin;s ass

super curious about this new devil fruit

[cobalt spade]

I found a Theory that Shanks will die and its so good it will happen to 99%

But I dont want Shanks to just die

[vale basin]

Shanks was sus tbh meeting the 5 elders

[cobalt spade]

Shanks will die to Blackbeard

[vale basin]

although ion want him to die either

u saw Ohara's vid or wut

[cobalt spade]

nope

The Theory is based on the Norse mythology

[vale basin]

yupp Ohara it is

[cobalt spade]

didnt saw his video though

why is the theory so good though

[vale basin]

umm ok then same thought process i'd say

[vale basin]

yeah pretty ftting ngl

[modest skiff]

Please read the channel description. If you are going to refer to a theory, please post it here and give a brief description of us rather than briefly alluding to it

[vale basin]

the slowmode on this channel do be getting on my nerves

[vale basin]

watch Ohara's vid on Shanks on yt

[cobalt spade]

The Theory is on German and my English is too bad for me to translate it ngl

[primal cargo]

I'm down for the german

[modest skiff]

Telling people to go watch a video is below the minimum effort we ask for in this channel. If you aren't able to explain the theory a bit, or if the theory is not in English, it does not mean our requirements for posting in this channel

[warm raft]

I wonder if Eneru would ever come down in the next 5-7 years one piece would keep running for

[vale basin]

well i wasn't the one who brought it up also i'm quite short on mythological knowledge so i thought it'd be better if you'd watch it on yt

that guy did explain it really well

[vale basin]

he gon make a cb for sure

[crude reef]

Guys who Else thinks that the fruit that was being talked about is blackbeards or a fruit that blackbeard just gotten

[warm raft]

dudes been up on the moon for too long just to not come back down

ontop of that he can literally restart his heart which gotta be some insane feat

[vale basin]

i don't think he's gotten it

[vale basin]

lol he shocks himself it's kinda medically funny

[crude reef]

Blackbeard is not just waiting or setting stil he was hunting df

[primal cargo]

What's your reasoning ? I'm 99% sure the fruit is connected to Zunesha. Do you reckon Blackbeard's new power has something to do with Zunesha ? Or that he's coming to Wano ?

[vale basin]

but it's still inactive so idk what good it'd do him even if he does have it

[vale basin]

now that's kinda what i was thinking

[primal cargo]

But like there's no way we learn that a certain Devil Fruit's name is fake and it's not a fruit we already know. What would be the point of a reveal like that

[crude reef]

The conversation was changed mid ways and him looking for rare df it make sense that he found Some hidden df from anciant time

[still lion]

Zunesha was an Island in elephant shape what ate the life life no mi. And came to existence. That's the thing that should not exist.

So the minks are her awakening

[abstract pond]

Zunesha always been an elephant

[modest skiff]

Well we know Zunesha was an elephant as of "over 1000 years"

But for the record, I do not think the gorosei were referring to Zunesha having some special devil fruit

I still think it is Tama's fruit

[oblique isle]

Just remember the devil fruit they are talking about is. A "known fruit" it had to appear in the guide book and not all fruits are in that book

[primal cargo]

Am also on the Tama train, especially after yesterday's discussion about the ability to command Zunesha being carried over from one user to the next

[cobalt spade]

Wie du weißt ist Shanks ein Pazifist also jemand der ungerne Blut vergießt und Oda hat uns einen Hinweis gegeben wohin die Story gehen kann und diese sind in der Nordischen Mythologie. Dort gibt es einen Gott des Krieges und der Gerechtigkeit. Als Prophezeit wurde dass der riesige Wolf Namens Fenrir Odin töten wird brachten ihn die Götter nach Asgard um ihn dort Anzuketten und zu kontrollieren der Wolf war aber nur damit einverstanden wenn einer der Götter bereit war seinen Arm in sein Maul zu stecken als eine Art Versicherung. Keiner der Götter war bereit dies zu tun außer Tyr und als Tyr seinen Arm in den Maul des Wolfes steckte beißte der Wolf seinen Arm ab. Er verlor also seinen Arm kommt dir das bekannt vor aber das sind nicht die einzigen Gemeinsamkeiten Shanks und auch Tyr sind beide bekannt für ihre Schwertkünste beide haben einen großen Sin für Gerechtigkeit und beide haben rote Haare und Shanks seegelt sogar auf einem Wikingerschiff es wird gesagt dass Tier im letzten großen Krieg Namens Ragnarök von einem Dreiköpfigen Monster getötet wird und Blackbeards Flagge hat drei Köpfe

[oblique isle]

idk that takes away from Neptune's power doesn't it?

[cobalt spade]

Sorry dass es ein bisschen länger gedauert hat

[primal cargo]

I thought you had a link lmao

[oblique isle]

And I though kozuki family is the only people who could command zunesha

[cobalt spade]

oh hahahaa

[still lion]

Google translate german

[cyan berry]

@cobalt spade sorry but this an english only server

[cobalt spade]

I can post it on English

[cyan berry]

please do

[cobalt spade]

As you know, Shanks is a pacifist so someone who doesn't like to spill blood and Oda gave us a clue as to where the story could go and that's in Norse mythology. There is a god of war and justice. When it was prophesied that the giant wolf named Fenrir would kill Odin, the gods brought him to Asgard to be chained and controlled, but the wolf would only consent if one of the gods was willing to put his arm in his mouth as a form of insurance. None of the gods were willing to do this except Tyr, and when Tyr put his arm in the wolf's mouth, the wolf bit off his arm. So he lost his arm sounds familiar but those aren't the only similarities Shanks and Tyr are both known for their swordsmanship both have a great sense of justice and both have red hair and Shanks even sails on a Viking ship it's said that Beast killed by a three-headed monster in the last great war called Ragnarok, and Blackbeard's flag has three heads

[primal cargo]

Well that's the Tyr parallel alright. I don't remember if that was in one of Ohara's videos but I've definitely seen it before.
It does make a lot of sense. Shanks does have some death flags already being the classic mentor figure who's both very strong and very reasonable

[cobalt spade]

but its google translate so something could be spelled dumb

[cobalt spade]

Its probably going to happen in the Movie

[fathom matrix]

Oh Shanks is not a pacifist. He and his crew have killed people, and he cut off Kid's arm, the left one to be specific.

But I get you

he doesn't cause fights or wants to make trouble, but if he's got no choice, or if someone's attacking, he's not afraid to fight back

[fathom matrix]

wonder if by the end of the luffy vs kaido fight, they're both gonna fall. Like Momonosuke finally manages to stop the island from falling, but Luffy and Kaido are still on the roof, battered, beaten and on the floor

They're blth laughing and kaido jokes saying "Jeez, is this what they call a hang over? I don't think I've ever had one" but he sighs and asks him why he wants to be pirate king. Luffy might go "cause the pirate king has the most freedom and the biggest adventures" but Kaido says "nonono. There's a deeper reason, isn't there? As a pirate you're already free and you can adventure all you want. But you're after pirate king for something else aren't you?"

Luffy probably might say he's only ever told 2 people why he wants to be pirate king, and because Luffy respects Kaido's strength or they had a good fight, Luffy tells him why, it cuts and we still don't know what he said, and Kaido laughs, but says "that's not a bad dream kid"

[oak mortar]

did shanks cut off kid's arm?

[fathom matrix]

ye

[oak mortar]

could be any of the red haired pirates?

[fathom matrix]

Ah, I see.

BUT a lot of peeps theorise it had to have been Shanks

cause again, the left arm feels too specific, and you notice he's got a scar on his left eye

[oak mortar]

anyone with a sword in the red haired...... or it can just be monster monkey that bit his arm off....

[dire harbor]

I'm thinking it'll be Garp, not Shanks. Just bc think of how deadly BB would look killing the "legendary hero"

[pure raven]

I had a theory,franky is transforming the thousand sunny into pluton 2

[abstract pond]

Kid the captain, he probably went straight to Shanks

[dire harbor]

Pretty sure he built it as that already, it's just not like at it's full potential yet yk?

[pure raven]

I think its not finished

but i think it is

Another theory I have is that the awakening of the gomu gomu no mi is to be able to erase the powers of other devil fruits, such as the yami yami

[primal cargo]

That's... that's already the power of the Yami Yami fruit

[cerulean coyote]

It was lucky roo. He needed breakfast

[queen ether]

Blackbeard not being able to sleep reminds me of his 3 soul theory . Since his body is not like a normal persons he has 3 personalities or souls. One of each keeping him awake for 8 hours each and going to sleep after once the time is done. Thus making Blackbeard never to sleep. Which could also how he gave shanks his scar on his eye, which shanks never let his guard down in the fight.

[oblique isle]

@pure raven that's not really a therapy Franky incorporates anything that would help the straw hats so anything vega punk or that pluton could have that could help immsure he incorporated. If anything it's the only ship that could stop pluton

[muted ember]

I would prefer it if Kid lost his arm to somebody other than Shanks

[pure raven]

It is not confirmed if blackbeard sleeps or not

Truth?

[queen ether]

Buggy mentioned that he heard he never sleeps

[muted ember]

Did Marco say he doesn't sleep? Buggy said he didn't sleep during the clash between Roger and WB

[pure raven]

But buggy was a boy

[muted ember]

I'm sure other crew members told him they saw Blackbeard up the entire 3 days

[pure raven]

He told Shanks that he heard a rumor that he hadn't slept since birth, but he was a child.

[muted ember]

I don't think he said it was a rumor. He just said he didn't sleep during the fight

Which was 3 days

[pure raven]

How do I send a photo?

[primal cargo]

get roles

[pure raven]

How do I do that

[primal cargo]

go to #old-role-info , first post

[pure raven]

Thanks

There he is, buggy says he never slept in his life

[muted ember]

That part could be a rumor, but the way I read the first part is other crew members told him BB didn't sleep during the fight

[pure raven]

That is true, I was referring to this part where buggy talks about the rumor

No one slept between Roger and Whitebeard's fight.

Or no main pirate, like marco, gaban or rayleigh

[muted ember]

Idk if that's true bc Buggy wouldn't point it out as strange

Oh wait, actually he's saying he didn't sleep during the truce

Let me see if that's the official translation

[pure raven]

Yes, that is the official one, i read it on several pages and the anime is also translated like this

[muted ember]

So then we can say it's confirmed he can go days without sleeping, but not necessarily that he never sleeps

[pure raven]

Exactly

The great pirates can go several days without sleeping, but that he does it as a child is surprising

[muted ember]

That's not the first time the no sleeping thing is mentioned is it? I feel like ppl have been talking about it forever

[pure raven]

i think luffy said it on drum island

yes it was theorized before. Luffy talks about it when he carries Nami with Sanji

[muted ember]

Nah that was a gag lol I meant specifically in reference to BB, ig that is the only time

[pure raven]

How would the creator of wado ichimonji have come to east blue?

[muted ember]

He became a pirate

[pure raven]

Its not a gag, he knows from Shanks. Also when BB was drawn as kid he is seen crying in the night with a moon

[primal cargo]

Definitely not just a gag imo, it was too specific especially the "I heard it in a tavern" hmm I wonder which one

[muted ember]

Are u saying he was crying bc he can't sleep?

[pure raven]

Or he has a trauma

And that's why he can't sleep

[pure raven]

that was the implication by the theorist. It could be possible, but I wouldnt take it for granted

[muted ember]

Why u bring up Wado?

[pure raven]

Has some event caused him to have split personality syndrome and that makes it possible for him to have 2 devil fruits, as if he had 2 souls?

also BB, in the panel where Luffy and Zorro call BB they. It is a key moment probably

Prime rayleigh could fight against kaido from back then?

[muted ember]

Some ppl interpret that as being about his crew

[muted ember]

This is more powerscaling than theory lol

[pure raven]

I also think it could be something with a soul. I mean DF have limits. Is it 1 per body, 1 per soul? Likely soul ig, since Zorro stated that even a Rock posses a soul. Vegapunk was also able to combine DFs with liveless objects.

[modest skiff]

We ask for power scaling discussions to not occur in this channel. Feel free to in #manga or #also-manga

[crisp topaz]

So i was rewatching one piece and Don Kreig for me is possibly Who Who .When we meet him at sanji's ship he states that he can go back to the grad line and not pretend to be a marine whate if he pretended to be a marine / higher up and met jimbe ? they have same hair and stature

[pure raven]

Ok

[muted ember]

Who's Who met Jinbei 11 years ago

When he was in jail

[pure raven]

Devil Fruits are demon souls which grant certain powers, these inhabit the user's soul, but there can't be more than 2 demons per person because the user would die.

[gray creek]

Go for it. Or dm it to mohdoo

[wild sluice]

i know it might not be known but what do you guys think made blackbeard eat two fruits like whats the top theory out there ? three souls one fruit for each soul ? three hearts idk hehehe (3 as if three fruits i do belive he ganna have another)

[ornate mesa]

Ooh nice theory

[wild sluice]

sounds good and just what i was seeking

btw i see tons of theorys online about gol d and dragon fruits\raw powers anything of that sort? i mean new power is cool but i do think that gol d had gum gum its wholesom, and now do someone think a water logia\hybrid exist that is like super rare that it kinda debunk the "not swim" draw back?

its going down the rabbit hole but hehehe if dragon have a wind logia dose it able to be pass down too family now i know there can be one power active like the ace\sabo but like can luffy can get flaor wind gum upgrade (if he have wind)

[abstract pond]

You can't debunk the "no swim" because it's a fact that every devil fruit user experiences.

[wild sluice]

so even if there will be water logia it will be ok on land not on water

[abstract pond]

I suppose. Aokiji is ice (just cold water) and can't swim either.

[wild sluice]

so like in the spirit of kuzan he travers via freeze the sea to not drown right? dose a water logia like pure water can create maybe water skates feet jets to drive the sea skip it maybe?

[minor elm]

He can freeze it, so it wont be a problem for him

[modest skiff]

If it involves a heart, how did a sword and a teapot each get a devil fruit?

[wild sluice]

this is good thing to throw , if you say spirit \ soul then maybe trees can get it but stiil not sword and teapot, but then there is curse blade i see curse as bad omen soul that live in object

[modest skiff]

I think it is more likely to be spirit/soul related, since so far the things that have had devil fruits are dearly held items. Swords have existing precedent for having a soul/will, teapot passed down for generations could undergo a similar dynamic as a ship gaining a Klabautermann. With regards to BB, I think it is a simple matter of his first devil fruit, the yami, being able to deactivate the devil fruits of other users. If he can disable other people's devil fruits, he can likely confine the spirit/will of a devil fruit to a certain part of his body. That's how he had yami in 1 hand and Gura in another hand. I think his ability to stay awake is critical to him not dying. If he was to ever fall asleep and lose focus of confining the gura to a certain part of his body, he would die from the gura and yami interacting

[wild sluice]

it can be a thing ya in my culture curses are kinda like djins so ya its like "bad" oman but ya it can be like soul thing, another thing it my be power via will of some sort like lets say if you have will to make everyone laugh so strong like usopp then maybe you can "unlock" the ability to have more then one or the will of luffy to become king, and thats lead to what kick blackbeard to that place like strong will of greed or some sort if it end up like this the bare with me...
scene: luffy fight with blackbeard and another fruit user that have like op powers maybe dragon fruit maybe some else but new power is on the grill and luffy know that if blackbeard will have it he will be x1mil STRONGER, (luffy know it bc bad guys mostly give dump lore at highpick fights) so he use his "useless" gum fruit to grab hold of the new OP fruit and eat it with the goal of death but blackbeard will not have it, the funs are sad bc we know that only blackbeard can have two and we like sad kinda like john snow type thing, but then luffy rise up with two fruits and the power of the two just bunkers like each of them alone is like meah but togeter its crazy (example paramithia that shot gasolin and ace fruit)

[chilly forge]

[torpid mist]

gomu gomu no mi : model juggernaut

[grim harness]

Question

[wild sluice]

hehehehe

[grim harness]

Is BB trying to eat Moria’s fruit?

Or is he eyeing another one?

[gloomy canyon]

We don't really know what BB is doing with Moria but I don't think he's going to kill him. Probably use him to revive someone

[pure raven]

This is going to be a weird theory but with the sun god possibly being "Joy Boy". There is one other "God" we know about and that is Joy Boy.

Enel is one villain we hardly dont know much. We dont know his backstory and honestly, it seems like he wont be important but what if Enel and his devil fruit is somehow related to Joy Boy. Also, the sky islands must have something to do with the void century, with a poneglyph being first find there by the strawhats.

I normally think his cover story isnt that important to the grand scheme of things but really, there could be a deeper meaning of wanting to go to the moon. Like why the moon of all places (besides it sounding cool).

[reef sandal]

a poneglyph was there because it got exploded up from jaya

or with jaya rather

[pure raven]

oh, really? I did not know that was the reason

are you sure?

[reef sandal]

yes positive

[pure raven]

The poneglyph came to skypea by the knock up stream along with the island

[reef sandal]

the golden bell that the poneglyph was in was a cultural artifact of the original kingdom of jaya

[pure raven]

Shandora

[reef sandal]

yeah that
and it was all on upper yard anyways

[pure raven]

oh, I think I am starting to remember that now

I have a theory, im-sama comes from the void century, my arguments:
-On his throne, which is excessively high, you can see the symbol of the world government, the grand line and the navy, as if it were the throne of the creation of those powers.
-possibly he had knowledge about the ancestral weapons, that's why he had vivi and shirahoshi in his sights, (vivi is still another theory) but nobody in the world knows about the ancestral weapons

-He has the giant straw hat in a vault and the luffy poster in his hand, as if he knew the prophecy of joyboy
-He probably could have survived 800 because of the surgery of the op op not me which gives eternal youth

[reef sandal]

i think it would be more plausible that im is a title that he inherited along with that knowledge

but ope ope no mi surgery would also work

[pure raven]

But because the gorosei bowed to him

[reef sandal]

if im is an inherited title that is the highest in the land they would still do that

[pure raven]

If I were a descendant with only knowledge I would be at his level

[reef sandal]

they're celestial dragons, they value heritage (read: are racist)

[pure raven]

and enslavers

But if they knew everything about the empty century and joyboy, why didn't they take over the one piece and transport the rest of the poneglyphs?

[reef sandal]

they might not know locations

the poneglyphs were distributed by the enemy after all

[pure raven]

But they should know the location of laugh tale

[reef sandal]

should they?

if the only map to it is the poneglyphs

[pure raven]

The location of laugh tale is known by reading the 4 road poneglyph, if you know them you should p

[reef sandal]

they haven't read the poneglyphs

they don't have the capability

[pure raven]

So how do they know the empty century?

[reef sandal]

they know because they erased it in the first place

[pure raven]

makes sense to me

But if you know about the empty century, you will also know about joyboy trips

[reef sandal]

the poneglyphs use a language invented by the kozuki clan so they couldn't decipher it
wdym joyboy trips?

[pure raven]

Joyboy's trips would have a great meaning, since he was the great liberator or pirate of that time

[reef sandal]

there's a couple steps missing here

[pure raven]

And on those trips he should have left the "seed" so that 800 years later the world government is overthrown

[reef sandal]

ohh i see what you're saying
why would he plant that seed on an island that the wg could find?

[pure raven]

Because they didn't know that he left that seed

[short folio]

well he left it at laughtale

[reef sandal]

ok? but they could still find it if they could find the island

[pure raven]

The "seed" would be the promises and prophecies that joyboy made, which coincide with the history and possible future of luffy

These promises and prophecies were unknown to the world government, so they could not do anything about it.

Ah, I have another minor theory, Orochi has 8 lives due to his devil fruit?

[reef sandal]

ok but if the government were to know how to actually get to laughtale then why wouldn't they have yet

[pure raven]

Because im-sama knows the empty century, not the way to get to laugh tale

[reef sandal]

you're agreeing with me then?

[pure raven]

In which

[reef sandal]

you were saying that since they knew of joyboy's exploits they would know where laughtale is

[short folio]

why would the one thing result in the other?

[pure raven]

I said they should know Joyboy's travels, not his prophecies.

[reef sandal]

ok but what does that do for them

[pure raven]

Nothing, they just know those adventures because im-sama comes from the void century

[reef sandal]

he wouldn't need to come from the void century for them to know that

[pure raven]

If they can't read the poneglyph, there can be no other way for them to know about the ancient weapons.

And im-sama had his sights set on shirahoshi, vivi and luffy, what reason would he have to do it?

[reef sandal]

they are the same entity that used the ancient weapons against the ancient kingdom

why would they not know about them

[pure raven]

If they didn't know about them, they would have no reason to have them fixed, they would be another pirate and 2 other princesses

But they know the prophecy, they know that one of them is the chosen one

[reef sandal]

i'm saying they would know about them obviously
if they didn't know about them it would be bizarre
they won a war in which the ancient weapons were involved

they didn't erase the history for highest authorities, just everyone else

[pure raven]

Oh I didn't understand, sorry

[reef sandal]

you're fine

[short folio]

Vivi could be an ancient weapon too

[pure raven]

But if they have knowledge about the ancient weapons, why did they send cipher pol for pluton?

[reef sandal]

vivi is just a lady tho

[reef sandal]

cause they don't have them

[short folio]

I mean like shirahoshi

[reef sandal]

the ancient weapons were against them

[pure raven]

Vivi has connections to the ancient weapon Uranus, which was written in the Arabasta Poneglyph.

[reef sandal]

the original poseidon was allied with joyboy and the location of pluton is detailed in a poneglyph

[pure raven]

And joyboy made a promise to poseidon that he couldn't keep, what was that promise?

[reef sandal]

was it alabasta poneglyph?

[pure raven]

Vivi being an ancient weapon would be funny. She transforming into Pluton

Bring the fishmen to the surface?

I doubt she would ever be an ancient weapon, it would be too goofy.

[pure raven]

i think pluton is sunny

[reef sandal]

franky burned the pluton blueprints

[short folio]

like the guy above said i think she is connected to Uranus

[pure raven]

But he knew them by heart

[reef sandal]

uhh
did he?

[short folio]

dont think so

[pure raven]

I think so

[reef sandal]

i don't

[short folio]

wasnt it also encryped in porneglyph language? if yes then i doubt he memorized it

[pure raven]

I wouldnt be surprsied if Franky knew it by heart, tbh. Its not hard to believe if it is that importnat

He burned them so that they would not fall into evil hands, but he knew them by heart, there are several theories that include this

[reef sandal]

no pluton blueprints weren't in poneglyphs

[pure raven]

Pluton 2

The copy of the original Pluton

[reef sandal]

another issue is that the sunny has a ton of modern tech

[pure raven]

Which would give him the power of an ancient weapon

[reef sandal]

soldier dock system and gaon cannon

[reef sandal]

maybe the power of one but not actual ownership of one

it's not pluton if it didn't use pluton's blueprints

[short folio]

If he memorized it i dont think he wouldve build it right away

[pure raven]

It is not Pluton plane, it has Pluton abilities .

[reef sandal]

in fact the galley-la shipwrights that only the original one was pluton but that's a different issue

[short folio]

would only make him and his crew a big fat target

[pure raven]

He knows Pluton plains, as well as his power and capacity, which helped him create weapons of similar or greater power.

[reef sandal]

nobody except like
gorosei and im would even maybe know what pluton looked like

[reef sandal]

he maybe knows pluton plans, which maybe helped him make a completely different ship

[pure raven]

Thousand Sunny is Franky's version of Pluton

[short folio]

i dont think so

[reef sandal]

no it's not
it's the thousand sunny

it's not a version of pluton because that's not how water 7 taught us ships work

[silver sphinx]

I think making Pluton is a way of Oda giving Franky an impressive feat and something to do in the last couple arcs. If Pluton’s already made then that’s kinda boring.

[short folio]

i think he will build pluton or something using plutons blueprints later on in the story, possibly before the next big war; maybe he also couldnt build it before because he was missing some super rare materials or something like that

[silver sphinx]

Adam tree.

[pure raven]

Pluton is known as the largest, most powerful and destructive ship ever created, thousand sunny could take that position from him

[silver sphinx]

Which has been rumoured to be in Elbaf…

[reef sandal]

not the only conceivable rare shipbuilding material

[silver sphinx]

Yeah but its the only one we know of

[reef sandal]

pluton isn't a title, it's a name

[pure raven]

I know, but I mean that the original plans of Pluton are unknown, the only ones are Pluton 2

What ancient weapons are known so far?

[silver sphinx]

Bruh

[short folio]

thats cap

[silver sphinx]

Only Poseidon is confirmed

[pure raven]

Missing the original pluto and uranus

[short folio]

the ones franky had were the original ones, they were passed down generation to generation incase the ship pluton got into the wrong hands so they could build another pluton and fight it

[reef sandal]

alabasta poneglyph has pluton location

[pure raven]

The one where luffy destroyed everything?

[reef sandal]

which doesn't make sense to me because how could a ship last 800 years

[reef sandal]

robin read that poneglyph

[pure raven]

But he lied to crocodile, she knows his whereabouts or a clue of him

[short folio]

probably some material not introduced yet

[reef sandal]

the pronouns in this sentence are so unclear that i can't tell what you're saying

[pure raven]

Location or indication

Sorry if I'm wrong, I don't speak English natively

[reef sandal]

can you just rephrase it replacing the pronouns with proper nouns
pretty please

[short folio]

hes saying she knows something about pluton but told him(crocodile) that she doesnt

[pure raven]

I was saying that robin knew the location or any indication of pluton

[reef sandal]

yeah

[pure raven]

But she lied to crocodile, saying that didn't say anything about it.

[reef sandal]

yes

this is almost the exact thing that i already said

[pure raven]

I mean if robin knows the location of pluton, why didn't he tell luffy?

[short folio]

*why didnt SHE tell luffy

[reef sandal]

because he didn't ask

[pure raven]

Yeah sorry

[mellow basalt]

when is the next vhapter btw?

[reef sandal]

wrong channel

[pure raven]

The next week

[mellow basalt]

sorry wrong channel 😭

[short folio]

dont apologize

[reef sandal]

yeah i just tryna help

[silver sphinx]

Luffy never cared about the ancient weapons

[pure raven]

If robin is smart, and he knows franky's ability as a carpenter, why didn't he say the location of pluto if that could be of incredible help?

[reef sandal]

luffy didn't ask

[pure raven]

That's rightBut you don't need to ask to help, right?

[silver sphinx]

It’s not really necessary for their journey at this point

[reef sandal]

luffy doesn't want it, she doesn't tell him

[short folio]

they already have a ship why would they need pluton

[silver sphinx]

Besides, what islands are they gonna destroy

[reef sandal]

luffy knows of the ancient weapons as of skypiea, if he wanted them he would say so and robin would tell him location

[pure raven]

That's true, but he doesn't want an easy road to his goal, does he?

Those ancient weapons could help he in the final war

[torpid mist]

Story seems to be leading to that Kaido thought he was JoyBoy at one point, went to Wano to do something he belives JoyBoy needs to do, and at some point he figured out that he failed in the task. How did he know he failed? And why stay on Wano if so? I think Kaido heard that JoyBoy is supposed to "bring Wano to its knees" in order to "unlock something", a prophesy kind of like Sharly's for Fishman Island. But Kaido realized after he killed Oden and subjugated the country people that the "something" he thought would unlock DIDN'T happen. So he is basically a right now in a state of inner turmoil -- No one else has shown up to do what JoyBoy was supposed to do, so how couldn't it be him? but at the same time, the "something" didnt happen, so how COULD it be him? Kaido's jolly roger is a perfect analogy for this state of mind -- look at how exhausted and defeated, almost cringing expression the skull is making. The great irony seems to be that Luffy is now that person who will "Bring Wano to its knees", but rathrer than the prophesy being about defeating the Shogunate as Kaido thought, it was actually about defeating Kaido all along. At some point during the fight, I actually think Kaido will recognize that he was never supposed to be JoyBoy, he was supposed to be the Wano defeated by JoyBoy.

[silver sphinx]

Sure

[reef sandal]

if he wants them he'll ask for them
he doesn't even know that he's gonna have a big war with the government cause that's not his goal
his goal is to be the king of the pirates

[torpid mist]

Story seems to be leading to that Kaido thought he was JoyBoy at one point, went to Wano to do something he belives JoyBoy needs to do, and at some point he figured out that he failed in the task. How did he know he failed? And why stay on Wano if so? I think Kaido heard that JoyBoy is supposed to "bring Wano to its knees" in order to "unlock something", a prophesy kind of like Sharly's for Fishman Island. But Kaido realized after he killed Oden and subjugated the country people that the "something" he thought would unlock DIDN'T happen. So he is basically a right now in a state of inner turmoil -- No one else has shown up to do what JoyBoy was supposed to do, so how couldn't it be him? but at the same time, the "something" didnt happen, so how COULD it be him? Kaido's jolly roger is a perfect analogy for this state of mind -- look at how exhausted and defeated, almost cringing expression the skull is making. The great irony seems to be that Luffy is now that person who will "Bring Wano to its knees", but rathrer than the prophesy being about defeating the Shogunate as Kaido thought, it was actually about defeating Kaido all along. At some point during the fight, I actually think Kaido will recognize that he was never supposed to be JoyBoy, he was supposed to be the Wano defeated by JoyBoy.

[pure raven]

His goal is not to fight the government, but according to the prophecy, he overthrows them.

[reef sandal]

he doesn't know any prophecy and neither does robin

also a prophecy is pretty hard speculation

[short folio]

he transitioned from thinking he was joyboy to waiting in wano for joyboy

[pure raven]

Joyboy's mission was to end the world government system, and Luffy is supposed to be Joyboy, destined to fulfill his mission.

[short folio]

hence the remark about luffy "you're not joyboy either"

[reef sandal]

also speculation
cool theory but not canon yet

[pure raven]

If it were canon it wouldn't be theory

[reef sandal]

yeah but i'm saying that you're saying it like i'm supposed to accept it as fact and move on

this is you trying to convince me with other parts of a theory you have

[pure raven]

No, sorry if I made you think that, it was not my intention

[reef sandal]

perfectly fine

[pure raven]

What could have happened to Ace, Roger's sword?

[reef sandal]

entrusted it to someone before he turned himself in

[short folio]

my guess he left it at laughtale

[reef sandal]

or hid it somewhere like laughtale yea

[pure raven]

When he went back to visit shanks and buggy did he still have it?

[reef sandal]

good question, lemme check

[short folio]

i think so because its in line with "i left everything this world has to offer there"

[pure raven]

When he said goodbye to Rayleigh, he still had her.

[reef sandal]

so he didn't leave it at laughtale then

[short folio]

cant trust the anime

[pure raven]

let's see the manga

[reef sandal]

damn i guess i'll continue my search

[pure raven]

Does not have it

[oak mortar]

I'm wondering about tama's fruit and the kibi dango's still tame the animals when the user of the fruit either passes away or is killed. would the taming process still function?
Im asking this question because of Donquixote Rosinante when he used his fruit on law to cancel all noise he would make! and then rosinante got shot by his brother doflamingo. then doflamingos gang took all the treasure in which law was hiding inside one of the treasure chests.
I dont remember which chapter it was. but rosinante mentioned something like " i must live for a little longer for the chance for law to escape quietly because if i die, then my spell wont work anymore"
So i wonder if tama's fruit would would cancel the taming process when the old users die.

[pure raven]

When a user dies the effect of their fruit ceases to have an effect unless another bearer activates it again.

[reef sandal]

that panel doesn't actually show whether he has it or not but i did find the same place and he doesn't have it

[oak mortar]

ohh ok

[warm saffron]

It would be canceled because the user would be dead

[pure raven]

In what chapter of the manga do they come back with shanks?

[reef sandal]

wdym by that

[warm saffron]

Shanks never went to the last island

[reef sandal]

buggy got sick so he stayed behind

[short folio]

i think he means in what chapter do they reunite after laugh tale

[pure raven]

Roger returns to the island where they left Buggy.

[oak mortar]

where can i find this info about when a new user taking a fruit?

[warm saffron]

Marineford
Blackbeard took Whitebeard fruit
One of gecko moria’s still living comrades got his stolen by shiryuu after being killed by him

[pure raven]

Roger doesn't have the sword in this shot.

[reef sandal]

yeah

[short folio]

well that confirmes it for me

[warm saffron]

Or, if the fruit wasn’t fully eaten, it seems it can get back the parts eaten by the previous owner, like the mera mera no mi in dressrossa

[reef sandal]

fruit was fully eaten

half by ace half by masked deuce

[pure raven]

It is not necessary to eat a whole fruit to obtain its powers, Kalifa left the skin

[oak mortar]

oh yeah of course but would tama's fruit remember which creature was tamed by their old users?

[reef sandal]

ace took first bite so he got powers

[warm saffron]

I know

[short folio]

no

[warm saffron]

It wouldn’t
But the owner would know

[pure raven]

The effects of a Devil Fruit of that type cannot be activated again out of the blue.

[short folio]

no he wouldnt either

[warm saffron]

It can be activated if someone ate the exact same fruit

[amber oar]

Depends. Some powers make permanent changes - Pica's "statue" in Dressrosa is likely not disappearing if he dies. Others need to be constantly exerting power, like Cora's, and thus deactivate when the user dies

[pure raven]

I am referring to the fruits that exert control over certain fields, such as the mind

[short folio]

just your speculation

[reef sandal]

so the question is whether the kibi kibi no mi affects permanent change

and if the mind is solid

[warm saffron]

With pica’s stone statue, he left it like that, he wasn’t going to change it around
By the time he was defeated, he had already left the main area and was only in his main body, not using his devil fruit

[pure raven]

If the user dies, nobody can give them orders, so it would not be shown if they were under that control.

[short folio]

i think the question here is whether if somebody would now kill Tama and eat her DF would they be able to command the people she commanded before

[reef sandal]

people could give them orders if they were ordered to follow other orders

[amber oar]

I assume not

[short folio]

and i think the answer is no because once tama dies all of her DF powers lose effect

[reef sandal]

we don't know for sure tho

[pure raven]

I think that when tama dies the animals under the effect of her fruit would "reset" and have no control over them

[reef sandal]

because we don't know the metaphysics of the mind in one piece

[warm saffron]

No
Sabo ate ace’s fruit, do you want to see what he looks like these days?
Blackbeard ate Whitebeard‘s fruit
The clone clone fruit and barrier barrier have been eaten by two people each
Shiryuu ate the clear clear fruit that absalom owned

[pure raven]

Like the fruit of vander decken, when he fell unconscious noah stopped chasing shirahoshi, and when suggar fell unconscious the toys returned to normal

[oak mortar]

yeah but to manipulate creatures permanantly?

[reef sandal]

these are all people who ate a fruit that does a temporary effect and then died and another person ate the fruit

[short folio]

you misunderstood me

[reef sandal]

but tama's control doesn't require energy actively, it's making the kibi dango that drains her

[warm saffron]

Exactly
Vander decker died, and the Noah halted, and then only kept falling becasue gravity exists
Sugar was knoacked unconscious

[reef sandal]

the effect on an object vander decken touched ended as soon as it succeeded or failed

[pure raven]

Noah stopped uploading because vander decken's power stopped taking effect

[warm saffron]

Look
If the person is knocked out or dead, they can’t do nothing with their devil fruit, whether it be logia, paramecia, or zoan

[reef sandal]

the axe he shot through the doorway stopped as soon it missed shirahoshi

[warm saffron]

Yeah
Because he died

[pure raven]

Why did sugar lose his toys if he didn't die?

[reef sandal]

so the question is if she's actually doing something with her fruit by commanding something that's eaten her kibi dango

she was knocked unconscious

[pure raven]

The same would apply with tama

[warm saffron]

Because, as I said before, if your knocked out or dead, you can’t do anything with your devil fruit powers

[oak mortar]

pretty much tama's fruit is based on a user giving fruits to creatures and taming them. correct?
now lets say as a dumb example that joyboy had the kibi kibi no mi and then tamed an an elephant. and then joyboy dies then that elephant would no longer be tamed by the kibi kibi no mi. but then when a new user find the kibi fruit will it reignite THAT same elephant that joyboy had tamed. or does the new user have to restart the taming process all over agin

[warm saffron]

Exactly

[reef sandal]

why would the taming end

[oak mortar]

restarting the taming process

[short folio]

restart

[reef sandal]

if the fruit is constantly exerting control that would mean tama is constantly being drained by every creature she's controlling

[pure raven]

Zunesha could have been tamed with the kibi kibi fruit?

[reef sandal]

meaning that for the fruit to function the way it seemingly does it would have to affect a permanent neurological change

so if tama dies any kibi dango she's made disappear but not her control over her creatures

[warm saffron]

Oh, that’s what you meant
Then, no, it wouldn’t
Otherwise, by that logic, if someone ate, let’s say, the mochi mochi no mi, they would immediately have awakened powers because katakuri got awakened powers through his use of his devil fruit

[reef sandal]

she just isn't there to exert the control

[pure raven]

But if he dies he can't take control over those creatures again.

It would be as if she stopped being able to do it

[reef sandal]

yeah he was the one who did the taming so it wouldn't transfer to the next fruit user
if he was somehow revived (which i don't think is possible) then he would still have the taming even if he couldn't make kibi dango anymore

[warm saffron]

?
If she commands an animal to move because he is thinking she is his master becasue he ate her little dumpling, then he will respond to what she asks him to do

[pure raven]

Unless before he dies he orders it to obey the next user of that fruit.

[reef sandal]

right but the actual thing she did with her fruit is make a magic ball that changes the way the animal thinks whether she's concentrating on it or not. using that change to command the animal isn't using a fruit, it's just telling someone to do something and the someone listening

[short folio]

"Any animal that eats one of the dangos will become utterly tame and subservient to Tama, obeying all of her orders and defending her from harm.[1]" One Piece Manga and Anime — Vol. 91 Chapter 918 (p. 4-5) and Episode 906.

So if somebody new got the DF they would need to feed that Animal again because the new Owner is not Tama

[pure raven]

But if tama ordered him to obey the next user?

[reef sandal]

then the animal would

[short folio]

that could probably work

[pure raven]

That would explain why zunesha went to wano

[warm saffron]

It’s the side effects of the fruit

[short folio]

We dont know yet if her Commands still continue after death

[reef sandal]

it's like with chouchou, a loyal animal doesn't stop obeying its master just cause the master died

[oak mortar]

and we know that that momo must of brought that elephant to wano. thats the only evidence we have

[reef sandal]

it isn't actively maintained by fruit magic tho
so the source of the fruit magic stopping wouldn't change whether it's in effect

[warm saffron]

If he did, we would’ve have heard/read him saying to the elephant during the zoo arc to go to wano

[pure raven]

Let's suppose that the real name of the kibi kibi no mi is not that, what would it be?

[oak mortar]

not exactly!

[pure raven]

The animal must hear the user's command through its ears.

[oak mortar]

at the end of zou arc momo mentioned that he wanted to stay to learn about zunesha. we do not know what he has said to zunesha

[reef sandal]

elephants have huge ears

[pure raven]

But it's an absurd distance from wano

[oak mortar]

momo is the user for sure that can command zunesha

[reef sandal]

it can def hear something being said on top of it

[warm saffron]

Then wouldn’t have gone to wano earlier?

[reef sandal]

well it is walking the whole way

[short folio]

the command was probably to only listen to the Kozuki heir

[pure raven]

But if momo eats a real devil fruit when he already has the artificial one, will he die?

[warm saffron]

?
The devil fruit’s one job is to make animals obey the masters will
That’s it’s one job, that can only be activated when something eats it

[oak mortar]

honestly for all we know we can even speculate that zunesha brought momo to wano and that would be a possibility as we dont even know how momo got back to wano! that elephant could of even been there the whole time right under our noses haha

[warm saffron]

Yes
He’s not Blackbeard

[pure raven]

But the artificial devil fruit would not have the soul of a demon

[reef sandal]

the job of the fruit is making kibi dangos
the kibi dangos make animals think that the fruit eater is the master
once they already think that it's not changing

[short folio]

good question

[reef sandal]

the demon soul thing is a rumor

[pure raven]

It would be a purely biological change

[short folio]

now that i think about it what happens to a Smile user who eats a DF; or a DF user who eats a SMILE

[reef sandal]

smiles make you unable to swim, which is also attributed to a demon dragging you down

[pure raven]

It's a way of explaining the way devil fruits work.

If I'm not mistaken, it's used in the manga.

[warm saffron]

I feel like you’ve answered your question

[short folio]

yes but even in the world of OP its a rumor and not confirmed knowledge

[pure raven]

How do y'all think BB got whitebeards Devi Fruit?

[reef sandal]

i didn't ask the question, i made an assertion which you apparently disagreed with

[oak mortar]

good to know about the kibi dangos then. i got enough info about tamas fruit

[pure raven]

So why does a user die from eating two devil fruits? (except blackbeard)

Just the rules for it I assume

[warm saffron]

At this point I’ve been mostly confused by your statement

[pure raven]

I think it was because the demons had a battle that ended the user's life

[warm saffron]

Maybe because it takes too much of a toll on the body

[pure raven]

Maybe

[short folio]

explained by CP9, the two devils clash inside your body and you explode

[pure raven]

Fair enough

I already said that, but I represented it as a battle between demons for control

[reef sandal]

ok let me try to clarify
i think that the animals tamed by the kibi kibi no mi stay tamed after the user's death because the effect achieved by the dangos is permanent

[reef sandal]

that was a rumor spread by jabra who was obviously being kind of an idiot

the real reason that dfs make you weak to standing water and you can't eat more than one are not known

[short folio]

yes i know but thats the only explanation we've got so far

[pure raven]

Devil fruits are tied to souls I think and ya only got one soul so it's kinda hard to have 2

The explanation of the world of one piece to the secondary effect of the devil fruits is that when you eat one, the sea will hate you and will make you unable to swim in it.

[short folio]

this could also explain BB eating more than one, there are many theories that he is more than one person

[warm saffron]

Yeah
That’s because I doubt anyone really knows
I bet the only people who know are the high ups in the red line

[reef sandal]

what i was saying is that if the no swimming trait transfers why wouldn't the can't eat more than one trait also transfer

when making artificial fruits

[pure raven]

It's a good theory yeah and Marco's statement could fit into it but it can fit into other theories as well

Makes sense

But does the sea hate the devil fruit powers or the demon that provides them?

[warm saffron]

Even with smiles, the waiters could only have one
And the laughters couldn’t have more than one
That would signal that smile fruits are like devil fruits

[reef sandal]

probably neither since it's a change in the person in the sea and it doesn't actually have to be the sea

[short folio]

yeah good point

[pure raven]

I think that his devil fruit becomes a logia in pitch black otherwise why call it a logia and not a paramecia? Oda wouldn't do that. It'd also make sense to why he was covered in pitch black when trying to take whitebeards DF and he must've used some technique to absorb it into him completely

Just the theory that makes most sense to me

[reef sandal]

well the way i interpreted it was that he could turn into an elemental form but the form just sucks up damage so it isn't worth using

[short folio]

yeah ive read that theory a long time ago but i personally dont think him being able to eat 2 is related to the Yami yami no mi

[reef sandal]

(sucks up as in makes the user take them really hard)

[pure raven]

If it can absorb devil fruits while touching them who's to say in it's "true form" he cant take them completely"

[warm saffron]

Strange how borsalino’s devil fruit is yellow when activated
Wouldn’t it be white

[reef sandal]

that's just visual i would think

[short folio]

i think he doesnt or rather cant turn into elemental form because of the constant light exposure

[pure raven]

The blackbeard fruit makes him absorb everything, the demons of the devil fruits and the blows, which affect him 10 times more.

[reef sandal]

why does his regular body attract damage

[pure raven]

That is why it is a tangible logia fruit

In his fight with ace he explained the power of his fruit

[reef sandal]

i know how the fruit works

[pure raven]

Maybe again because it's exposed to light

[reef sandal]

he can make a localized area of darkness

[pure raven]

It'd make sense that he cant turn into his logia in light

He attracts the blows and also receives them, because his body is made of that darkness.

[reef sandal]

why not just turn into elemental form in that patch of darkness he can make at will

[warm saffron]

It’s the best yet worst fruit

[pure raven]

He prolly has

[reef sandal]

he didn't

[pure raven]

Blackbeard has superhuman resistance to pain.

Weird

[reef sandal]

blackbeard is a very experienced veteran pirate

[pure raven]

Despite feeling 10 times more pain, he was able to withstand several attacks from Whitebeard.

[warm saffron]

Well, it’s been two years, and we haven’t seen to what extent his powers range
Maybe he’ll be more terrifying then Whitebeard

[pure raven]

But then why did he need to wrap himself in a pitch black tarp in order to take wb's DF?, It's gotta do something with being in total darkness otherwise he wouldnt need the tarp

[reef sandal]

or he just didn't want his actions to be seen

tarps like that aren't usually lightproof also

[short folio]

I think hes right

[reef sandal]

i think it's possible but there are also holes in it

[pure raven]

Honestly it could be anything, Blackbeard is a mastermind after all,

[short folio]

His crew is known to hunt devil fruits via various ways

[reef sandal]

maybe they just found out how devil fruit spawn after death works

[short folio]

Doc Q is shown blowing people up with rigged Apples and Burgess hunts with a knife

[pure raven]

I read on a one piece fanpage that he can't make his body dark

[warm saffron]

Probably because he didn’t want anyone other than his crew to know how to do it
Or maybe because he can’t do it, but one of his crewmembers can

[reef sandal]

that wasn't df hunting?

[short folio]

it wasnt confirmed but i think it was; in burgess case it definitly was

[pure raven]

It's stated that the Blackbeards are searching for DF users

[short folio]

why else would Doc Q give those apples away

[reef sandal]

why just kill random people with explosives and knives then

[short folio]

No i dont mean its the apples and the knifes that are important

[pure raven]

Blackbeard is planning something really bad that's gonna be game changing. His mind is on the levels of Sengoku and shit

[reef sandal]

i also don't think they're that important but they're just killing people not specifically df users

[short folio]

I mean that IF Blackbeard wanted to steal Whitebeards powers he could just use the normal way --> killing somebody and have a few fruits ready close by

he wouldnt need the tarp

[reef sandal]

maybe that's what he did and he hid it because people don't actually know that property of dfs

[short folio]

Why would he put the tarp over whitebeard then?

[reef sandal]

bluff

[pure raven]

Someone in one piece said that blackbeard was Behind the devil fruits, but if he can only steal them through his ability, why does bourgeois try to steal luffy's?

[reef sandal]

when does burgess try to steal the gomu gomu no mi

[short folio]

Dressrosa

[reef sandal]

burgess is going for the mera mera during dressrosa, no?

[short folio]

After that he goes after Sabo

[pure raven]

In dressrosa, after being exhausted by gear 4

Sabo saved him

[reef sandal]

ig i gotta reread the tournament arc

[pure raven]

Well, Devil Fruits have grown on the body of the user before as it's been stated. SO maybe they found a way to grow on the person right after death so they can take it. A less likely theory is that BB is tryna take multiple devil frits for himself to be unstopable. It'd be something he'd do

[reef sandal]

uhhh they grow on the body of the person? what? where was this stated?

[short folio]

thats pure cap bro

[pure raven]

I saw it stated somewhere in the manga

[reef sandal]

absolute nonsense tho

[pure raven]

The theory that devil fruits inhabit the hearts of people makes a lot of sense with this

You can grow the DF from the persons body or sum after death

[short folio]

we already know how they respawn see Punk Hazard

[reef sandal]

they ripen out of a nearby fruit on death

[short folio]

the Animal who ate a DF died and a nearby apple got turned into a DF

[pure raven]

When the user of a fruit dies, the power of that fruit travels to the nearest fruit of its type, such as an apple.

[reef sandal]

it's possible the fruit has to be similar to the df

[amber oar]

it wasn't an animal, it was a mass of condensed toxic waste that "ate" a zoan

[reef sandal]

the distinction seems pointless

[short folio]

whatever you know what i mean

[pure raven]

"The fruit nearest to the user after death get converted to the Devil Fruit"

When the axolotl fruit died, it traveled to an apple in the next cart

[amber oar]

I believe each DF is bound to a certain fruit - some DFs will always spawn in an apple, others in a pineapple, others in a banana, etc

[pure raven]

Yes, that's how it works

They could have apples and stuff on them, so when they kill them it'll respawn in the fruit they have

If not the devil fruit encyclopedia would cease to be useful

[reef sandal]

also btw the thing about the fruit being in the user's heart doesn't make a lot of sense to me

because we see smoker's heart and it looks like a normal heart

[chilly forge]

[pure raven]

Someone explained it in great detail Above this conversation.

I love thoerizing about the Blackbeard's, it's super fun honestly

[short folio]

Ok so how about Blackbeard put a tarp over Whitebeard so he could turn into darkness and absorb his life essence/soul and thats how he got his fruit(Same way Linlin ate her Mother and got her fruit)

[reef sandal]

that doesn't help me at all if you don't give me a message

[short folio]

it could be metaphorically

[pure raven]

That makes quite a bit of sense

This message

Darkness draws everything in, never stated it cant draw in souls

I saw a theory he broke down his body in logia form in total darkness to absorb the DF while not exploding

[reef sandal]

ok that makes a lot of sense but what doesn't is people saying that the user's fruit literally becomes the heart

[pure raven]

It is very fun to talk to people who understand the matter, not calling us weird for talking so much about one piece

Yeah, One Piece has soo much to talk about and theorize it's actuallt cool af

[short folio]

nah dont think they mean it literally, just translation miscommunication

[reef sandal]

ok man i've had some arguments that were pretty damn annoying

[pure raven]

Not literally, it means that it is as if the "soul" of that demon were lodged in the heart of a person

[short folio]

i can see that happening pretty fast especially if both talk about something else

[pure raven]

I am not convinced by that theory, I am trying to imply what I understood

[reef sandal]

yeah i understand the theory as it is argued here

[pure raven]

Well, that's what you were trying to say, I didn't say that the theory was true

[short folio]

Guys whats your take on reverie ? who do you think really died since its obviously not sabo

[pure raven]

king cobra from arabasta

That's new

[short folio]

yeah it either has to be Cobra or Vivi but i think Cobra is more likely

[pure raven]

I think he was assassinated by the government but they blamed Sabo

[short folio]

maybe Cobra died and Sabo saved Vivi

[pure raven]

Sabo fought against ryokugyu and fujitora

And he lost, I think they captured him and they are going to execute him in Marijoa as revenge by the tenryuubito

Yeah

[reef sandal]

i thought nobody definitely died it was just surprising news

[short folio]

Thats also true, but in the world of one piece it was published that Sabo died

[pure raven]

I can see that causing one of the last 2 arcs in One Piece

It had to have been something serious for ivankov, koala and dragon to react as they did

[reef sandal]

we all know what fake news morgan is like

[short folio]

I dont think Oda would go the same route like Ace

[oak mortar]

Also there seem to be a major similarity about shirahoshi's summon of the seakings when noah was about to fall on fishman island and shirahoshi was desperate. the sea kings were randomly summoned without really having shirahoshi command the seakings. but the sea kings heard her desperation though!

The tie with momo's voice of all thing and zunesha really looks like the same concept. maybe momo didnt command zunesha to arrive to wano but maybe zunesha heard the desperation of momo needing help!

[pure raven]

Maybe give Luffy a 2nd chance to save him unlike last time maybe,

[reef sandal]

the seakings hear when shirahoshi needs help, whether it's their help she needs or not

[pure raven]

Imu was targeting Shirahosi right? so maybe something happened to her

[reef sandal]

we don't know who im targeted

[short folio]

Zunesha could be Uranus

[pure raven]

But imu took vivi's photo

[oak mortar]

totally because zunesha needs to be commanded

[pure raven]

One of the 5 elders also s tated it's time for a cleansing,

[short folio]

Imu had Vivi Luffy and Shirahoshi picture

[pure raven]

I think that's the main thing

[pure raven]

But he broke shirahoshi's

[reef sandal]

also blackbeards
we don't know how he responded tho

[pure raven]

I made a mistake in comment

I meant that imu left a dagger stuck in the photo of luffy and shirahoshi

I have a theory that Luffy will never get to beat Shanks

[reef sandal]

well i don't think he's gonna fight shanks but he is going to surpass him

[pure raven]

Blackbeard will kill Shanks before Luffy can get to him

Luffy's goal is not to defeat yonko

His goal is to be pirate king but he stated he's gonna beat all the yonko

Only to Kaido, his goal is to find the Road Poneglyph.

"Saving Shanks for last"

[oak mortar]

its similar to the desperation of when momo had to give an order to zunesha as zunesha was in danger from jack. zunesha called momo desperatly to order to attack jack. its really similar with shirahoshi's but the only difference is shirahoshi can call them if she needs help or not.

[short folio]

i think there will be some big reunion with shanks maybe they clash for fun for a bit then they have to seperate again and after that i believe BB kills him

[pure raven]

I think this'll happen after Wano, (barelt know anything about Wano) Big Mom and Kaido will be defeated prolly and if 2 yonko fall then there's no reason not to attack the other and BB and Shanks will go to war

After wano luffy should be fully capable of facing shanks on equal terms

Right now, in the manga, luffy is facing kaido without any gear, only with advanced conqueror's haki

[reef sandal]

issue there is that zunesha wouldn't hear momo from all that ways while shirahoshi is really loud and sound carries well in water

[pure raven]

The yonko system is basically a way to keep everyone in check, if any yonko start war then another can come in and take victory over them, so if 2 out of 4 are gone then there's no one to step in and win

[reef sandal]

he's using gears 2 and 3 whenever he attacks

[pure raven]

We can get an idea of ​​the strength of shanks, when kaido was going to go to marineford he intercepted him and they fought, but neither was seriously injured

[pure raven]

Only gear 3 and sometimes

[oak mortar]

yea thats true. i still wonder if they'll be more info about how the momo/zunesha dynamic works

[reef sandal]

no he does use gear 2

[short folio]

Guys what if Shanks stopped the fight between Sabo and the Admirals

[pure raven]

I still dont understand how Shanks convinced Kaido of all people not to go to war,

[reef sandal]

red attacks don't work without gear 2

[pure raven]

For real? I don't remember reading it

[pure raven]

He'd get clapped

[reef sandal]

red hawk and red roc are gear 2 attacks

[pure raven]

I never paid attention to the red hawk, but the red roc is in black and white and I didn't notice it

[short folio]

Shanks met Ace so i would believe its natural that he meets Luffys other brother too sooner or later

[pure raven]

Luffy no longer says "gear second" every time he uses it.

[reef sandal]

red roc is gear stacking

[short folio]

and both were at the reverie so i guess it makes sense that shanks stepped in

[pure raven]

Sabo didnt know he was Ace's brother till after Marineford

Maybe he'll visit it after dressrosa

[short folio]

what does that have to do with anything

[pure raven]

Also Sabo wouldnt likely chase down a Yonko to meet him

[short folio]

If Sabo meets Shanks he would probably also thank him for saving Luffys life

Im 100% sure a scene like that is going to come where they paralell aces meeting with shanks

[pure raven]

when he visits shanks he still wasn't a yonkou I think

[reef sandal]

wtf are you talking about

[pure raven]

Ace

[short folio]

what does that have to do with anything

[modest skiff]

Guys this has drifted into idle chit chat. This channel is just for theories.

[reef sandal]

that was when luffy had a bounty
also it doesn't really matter whether shanks was a yonko or not

[pure raven]

I wonder who Shanks wanted to speak with the elders about

I mean that ace was not chasing a yonko, he saw him more as a person to whom he owed a lot

[modest skiff]

This channel isn’t intended to be permanently active. Once a conversation isn’t about theories and just gets to be what it is now, it needs to end

[short folio]

we are theorizing about the reverie, dont see any chitchat

[pure raven]

And theorizing about how sabo can meet shanks in person

Technically this is theorizing

[short folio]

Well he killed the mood good night guys

[pure raven]

Night

Good night

[modest skiff]

Speculating chit chat is not the same as theories. The sort of discussion you guys were having is typical of the manga channels. Speculation of all sorts happens in #manga and #also-manga . This channel is intended for more serious discussion, which is why slow mode is always on. It is intended to discourage idle chit chat like this @short folio @pure raven

[pure raven]

I understand, I apologize

[modest skiff]

No worries at all. New people show up all the time. Its my job to help people understand our intentions. Nothing to apologize for. I appreciate your understanding @pure raven

[neon shoal]

Wait , if big mom really want giant to be part of kingdom then why didn’t big mom just buy giant from slave aution as big mom has huge connections to the underground world.

[modest skiff]

A fundamental quality of the BM kingdom is consent. Everyone who lives there willingly participates in the trade she offers

[neon shoal]

Really?

[modest skiff]

Yeah, you basically live in a utopia without ever worrying about safety, work, etc, but you give up part of your life. They aren't captives

[neon shoal]

I see

[reef sandal]

it's coercion, not consent

[modest skiff]

Moving this convo to manga channel. Will elaborate there

[pure crane]

Theory: momonuske's fruit is uranus or the key to uranus, vegapunk was lying about it being a failed copy to hide its true powers from the world

when yamato showed momonuske his fathers journal, momo said

"it trule seems that i must not die", this is because he read that the person who controls zunesha has an important role in the future

His fruit allows him to control zunesha and its the fruit the garosei are talking about

[vestal orbit]

Kaido thought he was Joy Boy because he ate a fruit that let him turn into a dragon just like Pluton

[agile tangle]

So following this, you're saying kaido can control zunesha?

[pure crane]

Im not sure about kaidos fruit, but im pretty certain he cant control zunesha, only momos fruit gives that power

one reason which might be a stretch is that momos fruit is actually the original and kaidos a copy

Kaido maybe thought he was uranus until he discovered his fruit was different and then he became depressed and an alcoholic

[oak mortar]

im here to continue this theory i posted earlier today

Luffy can't swim originally, even before eating the devil fruit. The fact that luffy cannot swim before eating a fruit was told by shanks in chapter 1 (go see my first reply)
and guys usually when you have a devil fruit you are paralyzed in the water therefore you sink!

In episode 1, why is he floating? 1st photo
In episode 2, why are you saved? (I identified chapter 2 in the first reply)
In episode 86, it is fixed with stones and sinks
Now this one is INSANE his whole body is in the water but his devil fruit is active and he is breathing above the water to survive and also theres an excuse as to why hes stuch in the water - - its the Stones.... That is clearly hiding something ! 2nd photo
In episode 403, why is he floating? 3rd photo
In episode 608, the tide is strong and sinks 4th photo
In episode 1014, I'm unconscious, so I'm sinking( and showed this photo in the first reply)
Oh and also just to clarify the 1st exact scene in the new OP opening is Luffy Alive in the water... maybe that is a foreshadowing of something suspicious

[pure crane]

unless he still actually believes hes uranus and waiting for joy boy to come activate him or something, which is why he keeps saying wano is important

[heavy hinge]

Am i allowed to theorize about the one piece?

[versed hamlet]

yeah

[heavy hinge]

I have 2 theories. Either it has to do with the single continent on the globe or its a literal One Piece Bathing Suit that has some funny AF Joyboy/Im-sama historical significance.

[modest skiff]

First one is a common theory. Second one probably not a likely scenario

[pure raven]

@spice grove Here's the first one
and I think Shimy agrees with me on the other point

#manga-theories message

feel free to @ later, when you have counter arguments against my points; going to bed

[heavy hinge]

U prob right but you gotta admit it would explain "Laugh Tale"

[ruby otter]

So glad a lot of kaido theories have been debunked one of the dumbest was that he was a poneglyph that ate the dragon fruit

[heavy hinge]

how tf?

(poneglyph theory)

[ruby otter]

Mind boggling but thinking about it that theory has legs...road poneglyph has yet to be spotted onigashima if u catch the drift

[heavy hinge]

ok but like Kaido is an Oni

[oak mortar]

#manga-theories message

My theory

[spice grove]

I dont believe this debunks it at all. It's hard to use this scene for OR against my argument, mainly because this is the only time we've seen Black Maria use this ability, and the details are never explained. All we know (based on what Robin says after the encounter) is that the illusions are based on memories.

For example, if the illusions are based on traumatic memories, then it would show the oharans of 20 years ago. Robin meeting any of them during the timeskip would be far from traumatic, so memories of their new appearances wouldn't be shown. (Also hypothetically speaking if they are alive, Oda obviously wouldn't allow something like this to be how its revealed.)

However, if the illusions are meant to be people that died during your lifetime, then yes it would debunk the theory.

So in order to claim that their appearance debunks the theory, you'd have to assert beyond a reasonable doubt that black maria's illusions specifically depict only dead people, and not just random traumatic memories. So like I said earlier, unless she uses this ability again or explains the power, it doesn't particularly support or debunk my theory.

Appearance aside, I'd argue the rest of the scene actually does support my theory. It's specifically stated that Robin was unaffected by these illusions, which would make sense if she knew they were alive. She also asks "Why are you all here?" instead than "Why are you all alive?", which I'd argue is a rather odd thing to say if she believes they are dead.

You also say "So if she was the sole survivor of Ohara, this title wouldn't be exclusive to her" but this specific counterargument is explained very well in the theory. I can post an excerpt here if you'd like.

"When the theory was making the other points about how there was not a single body found on the island that can be explained as well."
Yes, it can be explained. But again, an alternative possibility doesn't debunk a theory. Same goes for Saul.

@dusky acorn @pure raven lemme know what you guys think

[pastel phoenix]

Guys are there any theories regarding the how one piece is related to laughters?
Like for example the final island 'laughtale' and how the main characters have different types of laughters? Eg. Whitebeard, luffy, brokks. Just a random thought that came to mind.

[finite osprey]

Go watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RX3d8x1WCBA - WARNING, the theory makes a loooot of sense (to me at least), so consider this as a potentially strong spoiler of what OP is

[slim moat]

On flip side, if none of the things in that theory happen in future story, that guy will shit on Oda and Onepiece. Artur is biggest loser in yt op community.

[light burrow]

What do yall think of this theory

[primal cargo]

I can kinda see the Octopus parallel, but I don't like the idea of it being a devil fruit. The Yami Yami fruit is mysterious enough without adding a second special, DF-related fruit. Plus it relies on him being able to hide that he was a DF user for decades back on Whitebeard's ship.
Also, this doesn't explain what they say in your pic. Even if an octopus has 3 hearts, it's still one creature

[light burrow]

Yeah. I find his theory quite interesting

[edgy viper]

I'll gleefully devour a broom if the ability to eat multiple fruits is in fact granted by a single fruit, be it the Yami Yami or the Octo Octo no Mi.

Bruno hinted in 385 that contemporary science disproved that one could eat only a single fruit. The fact that we've yet to see somebody else pull it off as well as the fact that even BB's crew at Marineford wasn't sure if he'd survive it, tells me that it has to be connected to Blackbeard's lineage factor.

Either BB is of an entirely different race (iirc somebody suggestes a three-hearted race, I'm kinda down for that tbh)
Or Blackbeard conducted some experiments on himself, successfully altering his lineage factor where the WG failed with its experiments

But a fruit being the reason doesn't make sense. The fruit alters your lineage factor upon consumption. Even if a fruit granted two additional hearts (or any oder organ, for that matter), why would those additional organy retain the original lineage factor of the user? Doesn't make sense imho

[primal cargo]

I think an additional premise for the theory is that Devil Fruit powers could be stored in the heart

[round monolith]

oh that actually might be true

[modest skiff]

This theory is disproven by a sword and a teapot having a devil fruit. It’s not a good theory

[edgy viper]

I could see it being connectes to the heart tbh. Like, we know two things:
A) Whitebeards body was seemingly unscathed when the BB pirates lifted the blanket
-> the prerequisite cannot be devouring the entire corpse
B) Big Mom gained Carmels powers after what appeared to be eating her
-> it'd be pointless to lay out these panels the way Oda did, if the explanation for Big Mom inheriting Carmel's powers was that the right fruit was happening to grow next to the crime scene out of sheer coincidence

Thus I conclude that you have to devour a certain body part in order to gain the powers. The heart is the prime contender, as for millenia we (as in the people of the real world) considered the heart to be place our soul is stored

[modest skiff]

Isn’t this entirely inconsistent with a sword and a teapot having a devil fruit?

[edgy viper]

It is, that's why I'm not that convinced myself it has to do with physique
If it doesn't I have no explanation for how BM got her powers tho

[void tree]

the df user becomes the fruit

[edgy viper]

On the other hand we've already established in-universe that objects can have a will as seen with the Going Merry
Iirc Zoro at one point states that everything in OP world, even a boulder, has a soul. And then there's the voice of all things, which is basically the same as the real world idea of "anima mundi" ("the spirit of everything") or "animism"

So the prerequisite for gaining a DFs power would be to have a soul, not necessarily an anatomical heart. It just happens that for humanoid creatures the soul resides within the heart.

Crackpot idea: this is the very reason objects can only be infused with Zoan DFs - because an elephant and a tanuki have a heart and sentience of their own, an element doesn't.

[primal cargo]

To be fair everything we know about Devil Fruits is inconsistent with this. It's possible that the heart does play a role and that the protocol to "feed" a fruit to an object is just a completely different process from eating one

[modest skiff]

I said something similar here #manga-theories message

[modest skiff]

I’d argue we actually don’t know anything about devil fruits and we are making big assumptions about both caramel and WB’s fruits being passed on to their next users

It doesn’t make sense to label swords and teapots as exceptions to a rule that we actually don’t know is a rule at all

[edgy viper]

Missed that one for some reason
The idea of having the Yami Yami no Mi being confined to parts of BB's body is very interesting. I have to contemplate the whole thing for a bit as this is an idea I never even consideres
First valid reason for why a fruit would give you the ability to eat multiple fruit that I've heard so far

[scarlet cedar]

I have the craziest theory from today

What is the Next strawhat is otama because she is Uranus

Shinobu would use her fruit for she her up

[modest skiff]

I think the idea that her devil fruit is Uranus isn’t too crazy. Read This post by Badoulin: #manga-theories message

If true, it would fit well with the other ancient weapons. One of my friends theorizes the moon is Uranus but maybe Tama’s fruit is. Why would Shinobu make Tama older?

[scarlet cedar]

For the same reason than momo

Maybe that wont happen

[primal cargo]

? As far as I remember Momo requested to be aged because he needed to be a bigger dragon in order to fly Luffy. Tama, on the other hand, isn't a dragon.

[scarlet cedar]

🤔 so i forgot

[mortal field]

The One Piece will comes full circle

[pure raven]

Sure, let's go over this. The illusions black maria fabricated were meant to distract her opponents, from what we observed from Robin's experience & Brook's commentary; it's made evidently clear that these illusions were specifically made to recall something of deep sentiment value that was lost to the person effected.
Her meeting them in the exact same appearance as they were 20 years ago is the big issue with the theory, it wouldn't matter if it were traumatic or not.

For example, if the illusions are based on traumatic memories, then it would show the oharans of 20 years ago. Robin meeting any of them during the timeskip would be far from traumatic, so memories of their new appearances wouldn't be shown.

How can it be traumatic and not traumatic at the same time?

So in order to claim that their appearance debunks the theory, you'd have to assert beyond a reasonable doubt that black maria's illusions specifically depict only dead people, and not just random traumatic memories.

Sure, brook who was also hit with illusions said: "Of course I dreamt of My Friends surviving" which implied that the illusions had the intent of bringing happiness to what was dear to that person. The main key evidence that follows however is when Robin concurred with his statement: ***We're two peas in a pod!!"***Meaning Robin, just like brook also dreamed of her friends surviving. The ability doesn't necessarily have to be used again for us to know this when we already know it's intent and purposes.

Appearance aside, I'd argue the rest of the scene actually does support my theory. It's specifically stated that Robin was unaffected by these illusions, which would make sense if she knew they were alive. She also asks "Why are you all here?" instead than "Why are you all alive?", which I'd argue is a rather odd thing to say if she believes they are dead.

This isn't consistent what what's said next following those pages. They say to robin "Look how big you've grown!" meaning there being united after quite some time, in the exact same appearance according to Robin's memory implies that it's over 20 years ago

Conclusion: they were never alive and these were just illusions so that robin can lower her guard

[amber oar]

People always bring up fakeout deaths to presume anyone can be a fakeout death... but the only death from a flashback that turned out to be fake was Sabo, and it's relative as Oda hinted his survival immediately after.

[primal cargo]

I'm pretty on board with the ideas presented in the original theory, but you've gotta admit that at the very least, if these 3 survived, Robin isn't aware of it.
I don't think the "traumatic" argument has anything to do with this. The goal of the illusion was to have the enemy drop their guard by showing them long-lost friendly faces, in the exact same way that Kanjuro recreated Oden before the Red Scabbards. Therefore both the clothing and the very fact that those 3 are selected for the illusion prove that Robin never saw them again and believes they are dead.

[sand sail]

How could they have survived? Buster Calls raze an island and specifically kill everyone on it.

[primal cargo]

I think the theory made a pretty good case overall
(https://thrillerbark.com/threads/olvia-and-saul-are-alive-the-formation-of-the-revolutionary-army.1429)

[amber oar]

I mean you can always hack a way into them surviving; whether makes narrative sense, it's a different matter

That's the problem with a lot of theories - most of them just make a statement "it goes this way" without stopping to question if "going this way" fulfills a purpose in the story. "Luffy is quarter Lunarian". Ok, so? What does that accomplish?

[sand sail]

I see a lot of flaws in the theory here

[shadow ruin]

Youre wrong

You cant prove a theory right or wrong cuz oda is king

[steel pewter]

Good point. But you can also have theories if it follows from clues and hints left so far in the the story. I agree most theories are just whatever comes first in people's head. But your bar for a theory is too high imo

[sand sail]

It seems based on a few assumptions, such as Akainu having a grudge against Dragon for any particular reason, and there being bodies that would be shown in the scenes

[primal cargo]

Well obviously you've got to welcome less than perfect theories if you want the great ones. Can't have all the good ideas at once.
Personally I'm a big fan of the "Ice Time Capsule" point. You can't put that in your manga without having in your mind the idea of "conservation" in some way.

[sand sail]

A lot of people think that Saul died because he was frozen solid, but we know that isn’t necessarily true. Aokiji has frozen several people throughout the story, and yet not a single one of them was killed by it.

None of them were killed by it because they were all saved, most of them were actually identified as in danger of being killed by it

So what could have thawed him out? I dunno, maybe the fires that were conveniently raging throughout the island……

So, then the marines that surrounded and bombarded the island until it was charcoal and ash somehow missed the giant vice admiral that would've been walking around? Or worse, wouldn't have noticed his body missing once they actually searched the island for survivors?

Despite the fact that the purpose of the Buster Call was specifically to eliminate them, we didn't see a single one of them die.

Oda just generally doesn't like to show people dying. The entire point of Sakazuki destroying a ship full of civilians is that they were going to execute the scholars as directly as possible, going out of their way to do so.

While searching the island, the one thing that would've confirmed the deaths of Saul and the scholars is conspicuously absent: dead bodies. It is very apparent in the manga (and even more obvious in the anime) that there were no corpses, skeletons, or any sort of remains to be seen anywhere. The only thing they found were the books in the lake, which brings me to my next point:

This doesn't really work, we don't see the dead bodies. Unless the marines went out and talked about how they couldn't find Saul's gigantic corpse anywhere, it wouldn't really make sense to imagine they didn't find dead bodies all over the place. And if they didn't find any bodies anywhere, they'd have known the scholars had all survived

The only event (that we know of) that took place between Roger's death and Luffy's birth that displayed the government's cruelty is none other than the Tragedy of Ohara. It was an event that took place 22 years ago in which an entire island was destroyed at the orders of the Gorosei. It perfectly fits the description given in the Vivrecard Databook.

This almost works, but we've seen that the injustice Dragon is working against is actually about the nobles of the world. Ohara burning was a tragedy, but it wasn't something centered around the nobles, it was a military matter. I'm sure Dragon would definitely care about it happening, but this isn't the kind of thing that would sway him to go and create the Revolutionary Army. What happened at Ohara wasn't a class issue in the way that seems to drive Dragon

If the government found out that Dragon not only secretly rescued them, but is harboring and assisting them as well? That, in addition to being a powerhouse that directly opposes the World Government, would justify his bounty and status as the world's most wanted criminal.

If the government found out that Dragon has the other scholars, Nico Robin wouldn't be important anymore. She's still the light of the revolution, and if they're with Dragon, she'd have met them. If she's important enough to basically be getting singled out for being able to read poneglyphs, it pretty much debunks that entire part of the theory. Black Maria's illusion just cements that completely.

Likewise, they'd have absolutely made that knowledge public just to turn the public against him

[primal cargo]

Not gonna save the theory from your very eloquent debunking, but I don't feel too good about that one point.
The Ohara Buster Call was, by all means, an order from the Celestial Dragons and something that was meant to protect them from inconvenient revelations. I'd argue that it is in fact the mother of all class issues, where the oppressor comes out with the full display of what horrors they can commit in order to keep themselves in their dominant position.
Surely Dragon doesn't buy that they did it to "protect the world from the threat of the Ancient Weapons".

[sand sail]

It's not that, it's that the Celestial Dragons ordering it isn't a known thing. The Oharans went down because it was already generally illegal to research the poneglyphs, and the military already had a buster call waiting for them if it was decided they were to be executed for it. It wasn't a display of the nobility picking on the less abled the way, for example, Sabo being nearly killed was

That showed a terrible symptom of the Celestial Dragons ultimately, but it was mostly a military matter through the marines, not a matter of the nobles directly as far as anyone would be able to know. I'm sure Dragon deduced it, but there's also the question of why he'd be around Ohara in the first place

[pure raven]

my friend thinks the special devil fruit is Kidds just because his character been all hype no action so far. I dont know its so random I do hope kidd has more significance in the story considering he also has conquerors and an awakening

[primal cargo]

I'd like to present my theory/analysis of Law's Awakening, in an attempt to set a definition of what paramecia Awakening can and cannot do.
I feel most of us have been under the impression that Awakening is a somewhat vague concept that follows the lines of "Your powers can affect your surroundings if that makes sense, otherwise just make it a cool new power".

With the following, my position is that, as of today, there is a rule that is followed by every known Paramecia Awakening.
Put simply, I'm going to present my case in defense of the original definition as it was told to us by Doflamingo back in Dressrosa.

Although this is nothing groundbreaking, it can still serve as ground for predictions about future Awakenings.
If anything, this will be a theory on how Law's Awakening functions.
Notably, it also provides an explanation for how the immortality operation is possible.

1. Definition

This is how Doflamingo describes Awakening in chapter 785 :

The basic idea of Devil Fruits at the start of One Piece was that eating the fruit transforms your body in a certain way. Know how people keep explaining their powers like "I'm a rubber man", "I'm a smoke man", "I'm a wax man" etc ? A Devil Fruit is supposed to do something to your body.
Well, Doffy is telling us that with Awakening, whatever property your body has gained can be given to other things that are not your body.

Now of course that starting definition for Devil Fruit powers has been strecthed quite a lot along the series, and a lot of powers clearly are just "ability to do X", which would seem to defeat our hopes of a consistent rule. Luckily for us, Law's Ope-Ope fruit's is one of these more convoluted powers, and his Awakening has been demonstrated to us. So now we will put Law's efforts to good use and make it make sense (that way his fight against Big Mom won't have been for nothing 😏 ).

It's important to note that the idea of Awakening, as presented to us by Doflamingo, isn't that "You can use your power on more things than before", nor "Your powers get stronger" and certainly not "You get a cool brand new power".
Rather, it's "Some property that was true for your body, can now be made true for other things".

We have got 4 explicit examples of Awakening in the series so far : Doflamingo's Ito-Ito / String-String fruit, Katakuri's Mochi-Mochi fruit, Kidd's Jiki-Jiki / Magnet-Magnet fruit and Law's Ope-Ope fruit. It's possible we've seen Awakening from other Devil Fruit users, but those are the only confirmed ones.

The first three I think are pretty straightforward, and the above explanation works pretty well :
Doffy could create controllable strings out of his body, now he can make controllable strings out of everything.
Katakuri could turn his body into Mochi and mold it at will, now he can turn everything into Mochi and mold it at will.
Kidd could make his body a magnet, now he can make something else a magnet.

So what about Law ?

2. Law's Awakening

The Ope Ope fruit did not modify Law's body. It granted him abilities : the ability to create a Room, and the ability to perform operations within it. "Operations" being a general name for all the swaps, cuts, and more precise moves such as Gamma Knife and Injection Shot.

I propose that in Law's case, the "special property" can be given through Awakening is the "ability to operate within a Room".

Let's look at what Law does in chapter 1030.

Here Law, for the first time ever, makes a Room that isn't a sphere and, most importantly, that he isn't in. Instead, he puts it around his sword. I believe at this moment, Law "gives" his sword the ability to operate within the Room.
In normal use, Law is the "operator" of his Room. He can make operations by doing specific gestures, such as moving his fingers, slashing with his sword and so on. And he's the only one who can do that.
Kroom, then, is a Room that doesn't have Law as its operator. It's a Room that is "programmed" to do certain things. The Kroom from chapter 1030 either has the sword as its operator, or doesn't have an operator (and the sword simply serves as an anchor point).

Notice how after casting Anaesthesia (that would be the act of anchoring Kroom to the sword), Law doesn't make any of his gestures that he always does when performing operations. That's because he's not the one operating. He has set up an autonomous operation to be performed on Big Mom from his sword, once it's inside her body.

There you have it. That's what it means for Law's "ability-type" Devil Fruit to be Awakened : you can set up instances of your ability to be activated independantly from you.

Let me rephrase once more : Law's normal ability is to create a Room where the operator is himself. Law's Awakened ability is to create a Room where the operator is not him.
The "special property" that was true about Law's body is that he's the one in control of the Room. So, in accordance with the general rule, that property can now be transferred to something else with Awakening.

3. Persistence after death, and the immortality operation

A possible consequence of what I've explained could be that effects can persist after the death or incapacitation of the user.
The reasoning is that if an ability has been set up to work without the user's action, maybe it doesn't need the user at all.
We all understand that effects of Devil Fruit powers, even remote ones, normally only remain active as long as you're conscious (see Sugar, Van Der Decken, etc). It's like those active effects tap into your energy to keep running, or at least they rely on you somehow.
Well if Awakening can make an effect autonomous, then perhaps it doesn't need you to be around at all.

Don't you find it strange that the Ope-Ope fruit, on top of everything it can already do, also gets the power to grant immortality ? What does that have to do with anything ? How does that "operation" work ? Sure, with the Ope-Ope fruit you can reorganise organs, stitch things back together and generally perform all kinds of surgery, but surgery is only good for healing people. You can't heal someone before they're hurt.
So to keep someone perpetually alive with surgery, you'd need to keep your surgery going forever. But you can't do that if you're dead... Unless ?
I propose then that the immortality operation is actually the culmination of Awakening for the Ope-Ope fruit, in which you set up an autonomous surgery Room inside the recipient's body to keep operating them forever.

So that's it. I'd like to say this can be extended to all similar "ability-type" Devil Fruits, but the truth is we need more examples of Awakening before we can make a statement like that. However, I hope I've shown that as it stands, we still have a good idea of what an Awakening should be, and what to expect from Awakenings that are yet to be revealed.

[south minnow]

has the Nika Nika nomi theory been addressed here

Ni-2 Ku-9 Japanese Pun theory, I had a hard time believing because of the fact that the Devil fruits always tell the owners their names

Then Chapter 1 when Shanks sees that Luffy at the devil fruit, he immediately yells at luffy telling him he ate the rubber fruit and his body is all rubber now. Now I am starting to wonder if he was in fact manipulating Luffy because he didnt want Luffy to know the name of the fuit seeing as how the WG is after it.

[pallid ibex]

What do y’all think about this? He thinks that in ch 1037 the world govt ships were talking about onigashima not Zunesha

[south minnow]

just thinking out loud

[modest skiff]

Yes, extensively. I think one person liked the theory and most people aren't on board with it. Here is the beginning of a conversation where I express my skepticism #manga-theories message

[south minnow]

Its funny because why is Lucky Roo the one holding the tresaure chest, why is a Fat man eating meat the one that presents it to us. Might be Oda telling us a clue

Rubber and silicone are also made of oil to, so that can be a way to manipulate his body

[amber oar]

How do I answer this without falling into a bannable offence