manga-theories

[wary fossil]

jaguar family d

[fleet scroll]

There are so many things we still dont know

[split glacier]

I'm not talking about basic Haki but y'all keep referring to that back to me for some reason.
Conq - Ya born with it. That's it. You don't lose it, you just don't use it. Stop bringing up Croc, Moria and a bunch of bums that ain't got it, never had and never will. They got beaten up because that was their job lol. WB had it at the end, he clashed with Shanks and split the sky with cancer.

[muted valley]

I 100% assume they have a history with ancient kingdom and D, Saul had a D, but I assume every race has a D tbh. Due to not affiliated with WG, I assume there is history to it.

[muted valley]

I'm pretty sure when he says loosing he doesn't mean it's completely gone. That it's weakened and they arnt implementing it or using their will like they did prior to X event that crushed them and their spirits.

[final wing]

Why would you lose conquerors

I'm pretty convinced rocks is about to be a lunarain

[gray creek]

If you lost your “kingly ambition”. It’s even implied in 569 that WB was too sick to do it. He couldn’t knock out the executioners even though Luffy could

[final wing]

The flaming skull likely represents the natural flames that burn from his back/head

[final wing]

What does being sick have to do with losing ambition tf

[gray creek]

2 separate reasons. I’m saying you need the physicality and the willpower

[final wing]

Bro there's nothing that even remotely suggests that you can lose your conquerors haki

Via loss of will

[placid kite]

Face it crocodile is fodder

[final wing]

Conquerors haki is definitely linked to physical of course. It's not like all Conquerors can use it while unconscious like luffy

But I don't think a lack of will removes it lmao

[split glacier]

King's daddy? 👀 That's why Kaido took him in lol

[gray creek]

You don’t think lack of will removes the power that is a manifestation of your will?

[final wing]

No bruh. That's like just saying because there 2 white guys left on the planet they are father and son

[final wing]

Yeah I don't because conquerors haki is a very flawed power system

Haki in general is poorly done personally

[split glacier]

Bestowed upon from the Gods~ Fated to have it.

[final wing]

Like I used to think it was the

Divine general/supreme king type deal but after people like yamato got it. My headcanon was destroyed

[proud tree]

Doflamingo inheritted his conquerors Haki from the strong Celestial Dragons of the void century

[final wing]

Bro just please stop man

Imma be as nice as possible but that sounds very yknow dumb

[proud tree]

what? I susect the 20 original kings that conquerored the world for 800 years where strong.

[gray creek]

So how do you think it works for people like Luffy in the hypothetical scenario he joins Kaido after Udon?

[final wing]

No they were not strong. They stole the ancient weapons of the ancient kingdom

And imu was their leader tf

One of their strongest fighters a member of the gorosei isn't even from the 20 kingdoms

[final wing]

I don't really wanna start spouting headcanon vs headcanon bro

[proud tree]

To create such a long lasting system and defeat the ancient kingdom requires some conquerors. Doflamingo showed how strong Celestial Dragons can be in difficult times.

[gray creek]

Lol you already are. That’s a hell of a lot of speculation thrown around like facts

[final wing]

So your admitting all you've been saying is headcanon

[proud tree]

the 20 kings where probably all stronger then Doflamingo.

[final wing]

Bro I don't give af bout these 20 Kings man

[gray creek]

I’m constructing an argument for the power system based off of how it’s been explained. You’re giving us a history lesson about the void century like you read Oda’s notes

[proud tree]

Their children got weaker and weaker in the golden cage of meri joa.

[muted valley]

He'd only use coc if pressured hard by another coc user if he was to fight for kaido. However all his potential would be scrapped and he'd be stuck at his current level or regress back and not utilize it the same.

[final wing]

They aren't the reason the ancient kingdom lost bruh

They lost because of a betrayal. They lost because the ancient weapons were stolen. They lost because imu is extremely cunning and powerful and because she found the gorosej.

The 20 kingdoms are some scape goats for the wg

[modest skiff]

We don't know any of this is true. You are presenting this as if it is fact

[gray creek]

It’s probably something like that, but we don’t really know. We definitely don’t know if the Gorosei member is from Wano, or if they’re even fighters

[final wing]

Excuse me for using simple logic

[proud tree]

Imu could be one of the original 20 kings.

[final wing]

I present shit as fact. But I only do that for shit that is very obvious.

But apparently me saying imu is cunning and smart is wild

[muted valley]

Imu can mean hate/detest in Japanese . We don't know if they're a girl either.

[elfin roost]

Where did anyone refer to her gender

[gray creek]

“20 kings”

[elfin roost]

Big mom said she wants to be pirate King

It's clearly genderless

[muted valley]

We also don't know if they lost the ancient weapon through being stolen. Or if the ancient kingdom was just conned into believing in a better system and then was systematically wiped out.

Kaido just did @elfin roost

[elfin roost]

Either way I highly doubt they lost a fair one

[elfin roost]

I'm reading the comments and no one refers to imu as a man or woman

[gray creek]

All we know is the WG came out on top, and that there was some kind of betrayal

[elfin roost]

Oh my bad I didn't see that

[muted valley]

It was right above your post

[gray creek]

My bad too

[ancient vault]

You cant just use COC from the get go tho

[elfin roost]

And tbh if imu is a man he is already a trash villain. The guy is built like pre skip usopp/luffy

However the threat is there if they are a woman

[muted valley]

They were wearing cerimonial clothes. I don't think we got a close to accurate representation of them

[elfin roost]

We saw her arms and lower abdomen

And even the chest in the anime

I also think wci gives a hint to the betrayal

I think potentially sun god nika was supposed to marry imu in a sort of alliance between nations type deal

And she betrayed him

[gray creek]

Pre-ts Luffy was a monster because of his fruit. You can’t assume anything from appearances

[elfin roost]

The appearance has to be threatening. Appearance creates aura. Why do you think snakeman looks like a super saiyan form. The idea is to show luffy is alot more powerful

[gray creek]

One Piece sort of subverts that. Some of the most powerful dudes are regular stature guys like Roger/Shanks/Xebec. Though, lately those first two have been shown to be built

[proud tree]

if Imu had some transformations it could make him spookier

if he really is a villain

[ancient vault]

hype and sells better. Oda cant make goofy forms for luffy only

[gray creek]

Villian is an absolute given

[muted valley]

Like I said crisp we don't know if Imu is a girl.

[ancient vault]

They do look feminine tho. Looks like typical old fashioned female royal clothes or ceremony clothes

[proud tree]

why? because he destroyed the bounty posters of Blackbeard, Luffy and took Vivi picture?

[ancient vault]

No because theyre the ruler of the WG that is the villain of the story

[proud tree]

or the light to be erased from history part?

[ancient vault]

Why would Imu not be a villain?

[sinful bolt]

Imu ate the first devil fruit from the devil fruit tree even when a Lunarian told her not to do so and gained immortality. Then it resulted in countless devil fruits being beared from the tree and turnt the world into chaos.

[gray creek]

That’s pretty villainous, no matter what their intentions are lol

[proud tree]

but they did not utter these words. that was one of the 5 elders

[gray creek]

Almost as if it’s something they regularly do, eh?

Imu is in charge, it’s not like the gorosei are making these shots on their own

[placid kite]

I have a theory about joy boy eating the human human fruit and achieving enlightenment

[modest skiff]

Please feel free to post it then

[desert hatch]

dont see how you could possibly have evidence for that

[placid kite]

sbs

[modest skiff]

Was what you said your theory or do you mean you’re going to elaborate?

[gray creek]

The sbs answer you’re referring to was that a person would become “more human” or something. Enlightenment was a mistranslation

[split glacier]

I've said that multiple times. Dunno why people pick and choosing what they wanna read

[warm nexus]

need help on Beast Pirates timeline my good sirs

38 years ago - Rocks incident - King (9 years old) Queen (18 years old)
38 - 33 years ago - Kaido is captured (in God Valley maybe?) and was held in Punk Hazard. King was also in Punk Hazard and escaped with Kaido.
33 years ago - Rock Pirates starts forming their own crew - King (14 years old) Queen 23 (years old)
30 - 25 years ago - Kaido arrived at Wano
28 years ago - Yamato is born (She’s born in Wano?)
23 years ago - Kaido vs Moria
Atleast 20 years ago - MADS research group

[ancient vault]

Kaido was not captured for 5 years

[slim ravine]

I believe Oda is gathering Luffy’s crew based on Christianity, with Jesus and his disciples. Meaning Luffy will very likely have 12 crewmates like Jesus had 12 apostles. 4 from East Blue, 4 from Paradise, and 4 from New World. Each character, in the order of joining, has uncanny parallels with eachother. If the pattern continues, we would need someone similar to Nami and Robin. People have gone to point out Yamato or Tama because they are females, but I don’t think female is the requirement. I believe King will be the next Straw Hat. The similarities and parallels between Nami, Robin, and King are all too strong. All 3 were integral to a Arc Villains Plan. All 3 were impacted by progressively worse murders. Nami and Bellmere, Robin and her Island, King and his Race. All 3 were tormented by the world government. Nami’s island was left to pirates because they paid off Marines. Robin was hunted since she was a child. King has been hunted since he was a child and was tested on. All 3 of them are drawn to be genuinely beautiful characters. I think that Nami will get them to Laugh Tale, Robin will lead them to Laugh Tale, and King will help them use what’s at laugh tale. In conclusion, King is the next straw hat.

[ancient vault]

at least 24 for mads group*

[modest skiff]

I like this a lot. well put together

[slim ravine]

I have a chart that outlines the theory, if you’d like I can DM it to you, it’s a bit more indepth

[modest skiff]

please do

[warm nexus]

it was between those years. not 5 years

[amber oar]

30 - 25 years ago - Kaido arrived at Wano
I hadn't realized how young King was when Kaido took over Wano. Between 17 and 22

[modest skiff]

Kaido's age gives credit to the idea that Rocks may have wondered if Kaido was joyboy

[amber oar]

Also if you want to be tinfoil, Yamato's vivre card explicitly states that her birthplace is "unknown". Which is interesting because when a character has no known birthplace it's just omitted from the summary box. So it looks like they're making a point that her birthplace is a relevant secret

[obsidian bison]

How so

Wouldn't someone of rocks stature think himself to be joyboy

[warm nexus]

Kaido was also young when he joined Rocks. iirc he joined as an apprentice.

[obsidian bison]

Ooh I actually have a theory about that. I think gloriosa is the mother of yamato

[amber oar]

Yup, he was 21 by god valley

[gray creek]

Depending on how much Rocks knew, he could have known that Joyboy wasn’t due to come until later. Granted that’s a bit of a stretch, because Roger didn’t even know until LT. The info would have had to come from a similar prophecy to what the Sea Kings we’re talking about

[obsidian bison]

I think rocks knew about the will of D before roger did. He likely dropped it a couple times fighting roger and didn't know anything about it

[obsidian bison]

Do you think we already know the vice captain of the rocks pirates. Or we will be revealed to a new character in the flashback

[gray creek]

I’d wager all of the big names were already listed by Sengoku

[obsidian bison]

I'm hoping for at least one completely new character in the flashback

[modest skiff]

I've went into great detail about why I think everything we have heard from trash Sengoku about Rocks isn't true, so I won't derail too much here. But I think Kaido likely showed a great deal of talent and accomplishment at a young age. Factor in his CoC and it may appear credible

[gray creek]

There’s still a few we only really know their names

[obsidian bison]

I think they definitely used to kill each other though. Implying wb likely switched.

But aside from that I believe rocks was a luffy esque character with actual intelligence and way more charisma

[modest skiff]

Could be as simple as one killing another. As an example, you could tell a story about WB's crew "killing each other" and it would not be an accurate impression

[obsidian bison]

I think rocks will be the star figure in kaidous flashback the way roger was in odens.

So I believe this flashback will be pretty hype for rocks

[modest skiff]

Same. I can speculate all I want and point out how the WG and Navy aren't remotely credible, but at the end of the day, all we can do is wait for the flashback

[gray creek]

I’m of the opinion that everything Sengoku said was true from his point of view

[obsidian bison]

Bro I agree trust me. The navy aren't a credible source for rocks at all. They say he was worth being erased.

Meaning he is likely the closest character type to joyboy we will see until the guy himself

[modest skiff]

I'd be inclined to believe that if he wasn't already defending dishonesty/coverups throughout his career. His long history of embracing and defending dishonesty makes it hard for me to think he's even conveying his own perspective

[modest skiff]

Yes, I agree

[obsidian bison]

The KOW ambition I believe is true. But the actual purpose behind it will not be something we will expect

[modest skiff]

KOW?

[obsidian bison]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-michael-scott-titanic-boat-ship-gif-16434966

[amber oar]

I see the point on the Navy lying to the general populace, but in this part in particular, I don't see how useful it would be for Sengoku to hide what he knew about Rocks in front of a bunch of Vice Admirals

[gray creek]

I’d have to reread, but I thought Sengoku totally drank the kool-aid in terms of believing WG propaganda

And that his willingness to cover up was for the greater good

[ancient vault]

Or well let me summarize it for you since you asked for help :)
I will add wano relevant situations

- 38 years ago: Rocks Incident happened
- 38-33 years ago: Kaido was fighting around and being captured often most likely. Tho not confirmed its very unlikely he was captured for 5 years straight but rather this is the time where he started wars with enemies
- 33 years ago: The rocks pirates that survived god valley started forming their crew. Problem with that is we know Big Mom already had her crew established so its not exactly accurate for her.
- 28 years ago: Yamato and Momonuske are born
- 28 years ago: The old hag disguised as Sukiyaki Odens father allows Orochi to be the next shogun after his death.
--> this means at least 28 years ago the old hag was in wano manipulating Orochi
- 26 years ago: Oden meets Roger and drops of Toki
--> This is where we see the scabbards trying to tell oden about the situation and trying to get him to stay. So we know Kaido was already in Wano at least 26 years ago.
- 25 years ago: Oden returns to wano attacks Orochi gets stopped and agrees to the deal
- at least 24 years ago: MADS disbanded based on the fact that Reiju was born 24 years ago and Judge stopped at that time
- 24 years ago: Roger dies
- 23 years ago: Kaido vs Moria in Ringo, we see King and queen, Moria steals Ryuma corpse and his sword Shusui
-20 years ago: Kaido vs Oden and Oden dies, we see a few numbers here, we see Yamato at the execution
- 18 years ago: Kaido defeats and kills all other daimyos that decided to rebell and fight against Kaido, Ushimaru Shimotsuki dies

[obsidian bison]

Garp will definitely be a credible source. Sengoku isn't exactly as righteous as garp is

[modest skiff]

lmao. I think Rocks wanted the same thing Luffy wants, which is to be pirate king. But as you'll recall, Rayleigh quizzed Luffy during Sabaody, asking what he wants to do when he is a ruler. Luffy corrects Rayleigh to say he will not be a ruler, as pirate king. I think Rocks wanted to be the same kind of king

When Luffy answered, Rayleigh smirked approvingly, and that was the moment he decided to put his full support behind Luffy

[ancient vault]

Are they even vice admirals? Theyre just fodder whos opinion is worthless

[obsidian bison]

I don't think he was after pirate king. I definitely think he was after the ancient kingdom throne

[ancient vault]

The title Pirate King didnt exist when Rocks was around tho

[obsidian bison]

Yeah it didn't. Roger didn't even wanna be pirate king. They just gave him the titlw

And what's crazy to me is the fact the entire world knew that he went to an island that was supposed to be secret

[gray creek]

Morgans invented the title due to his accomplishment

[obsidian bison]

Isn't that headcanon

[amber oar]

Newspapers did, but we don't know if Morgans was already in charge

[gray creek]

Well we don’t know it was Morgans, but it’s what the newspaper started saying

[modest skiff]

whatever it is you get with the one piece may be an approximation of something of that sort. As it stands, it appears pirates began as freedom fighters. Being the "pirate king" is likely synonymous with "freedom king"

[ancient vault]

he isnt embracing and defending it really when we clearly see him being against it.

[split glacier]

Anything that gives King maskless more screen time lol.

[obsidian bison]

I'm of the belief that rocks entered the pirate world in the exact same way bb did

[ancient vault]

Oda heavily highlights it here. Hes 100% against it but he cant do anything about it. Hes not the boss and he has to obey to it because its his duty

[obsidian bison]

I think rocks entered the pirate world as already the strongest pirate alive with a 0 bounty and targeted a famous figure from the rocks pirates

So I don't think he started as a pirate at like 19. I'm thinking he was like 37-40

[modest skiff]

I take the absurd to mean the blame is absurd, but I can accept your take on this as well. Either way, if he ever covers up "to prevent chaos", he isn't credible anymore

[ancient vault]

Sure if he was in duty still. He isnt tho and nor was 957 sth he would have to lie about to the general public

[obsidian bison]

Sengoku isn't a reliable source for rocks personality.
I believe when garp gives the lore dump on rocks we will get the real him

[modest skiff]

We've discussed this 100 times swrml so I think we should just wait and see. I think you have great ideas I am just not convinced. But we'll find out eventually

[obsidian bison]

Because big mom and kaidou aren't gonna start talking about him

It's gotta be garp

[ancient vault]

We'll get a flashback

Anyways

[obsidian bison]

A flashback won't tell the strawhats who rocks is. They are gonna need to hear from someone's mouth about the guy

[ancient vault]

I hope the timeline summary helps anyone

[obsidian bison]

And there's no better guy than garp to do just that

[modest skiff]

We may get a Kaido flashback of him being on Rocks's ship though, which would show us his nature

[gray creek]

But I do think it speaks to Sengoku’s priorities. He is concerned with the chaos specifically. So to him, people like Luffy, who are more or less good, are villains in his eyes due to the upheaval they cause. So overall I agree with your take about Rocks and his portrayal, but I don’t think Sengoku is a liar for the sake of it

[obsidian bison]

I personally think the kaidou flashback will start with kaidou and then transition away from him temporarily

[modest skiff]

Yeah, I can accept this. And apparently Garp came to a similar conclusion, as he was willing to watch Ace die. I think these priorities fundamentally harm their credibility and they are a moral failing, but I can believe this is what motivates their actions

[obsidian bison]

I actually think that rocks will start the flashback as a no name pirate who will be rising in the news

And the most hype shit I'm waiting to see. Is if rocks has the same laugh as blackbeard

[ancient vault]

I think we need a character arc for garp where he has to choose duty or family (or navy or family) and chooses family

[obsidian bison]

Yeah we will get that. All I'm saying is that the strawhats will need to learn about rocks the same way they learned about oden from kinemon.

Garp is literally the only outlet for that

[modest skiff]

I think Garp is aware of the fact (my theory) that the CDs can wipe out the planet by raising the water level. So Garp sees the situation as "the only way to save innocent lives is to not fight the CDs, so I need to defeat pirates to prevent the CDs from ever being pushed to their limits". I think once Garp understands Luffy has a real shot at taking down CDs, he will join

[obsidian bison]

They learned about roger from the guy who knew him best

They learned about oden from the guy who Knew him best

They will learn about rocks from the guy who knew him best

Why would oda break the trend

[ancient vault]

Or maybe hes just waiting for Luffy to be at that spot.
Because we've seen Dragon knowing Luffys potential

[ancient vault]

Which is not garp.
The person that knows Rocks best is probably Kaido or someone else from the crew

[obsidian bison]

Yeah in my headcanon garp knows him better than that entire crew anyway

[obsidian bison]

And like I said kaidou and big mom aren't gonna sit with the strawhats and start talking about rocks lmao

And I brought up the fact that all the dead legendary figures that the strawhats learned about were through their right hands and the people who knew them more then anyone else

Oden was told via kinemon. Basically his main scabbard

Roger was told via Ray
His main crewmate

And I just told you big mom and kaidou aren't gonna tell the strawhats about rocks.

[ancient vault]

Flashback. Also you know this chat isnt for baseless headcanons. If you want to discuss that u should move to another chat

[obsidian bison]

What's baseless about what I said

[gray creek]

Agreed. Garp flipping at the final war could cause a cascade of the actually good marines to follow suit. It’s absolutely fitting to Luffy’s trend of gaining allies, and it’ll be oh so satisfying to see Garp sock Sakazuki in the face. Even if he dies for it

[gray creek]

At this point, Roger has been primarily told through Oden. Rayleigh said hardly anything

[modest skiff]

All theories are just well developed headcanon. I don't think Connis is doing anything wrong by using some headcanon as evidence, especially when they are very clear it is headcanon.

Rocks theories right now are basically 100% headcanon. We just don't know much right now. Its like Uranus. There is not a single good Uranus theory because we have no data

[obsidian bison]

Rayleigh told us about rogers characters

[modest skiff]

It would only be a bad thing if connis was saying their head canon is true or "just logic" etc, but they are being honest, so I see no problem

[ancient vault]

The fact that Garp is supposed to know Rocks better than his own crewmates?
You also keep ignoring the very likely possibility of a flashback?
We learned about Whitebeard through several characters tho
And Roger was also through Odens flashback

[obsidian bison]

Bro I just told you a flashback is for the readers lmao.

The strawhats aren't watching a fb with us

[gray creek]

I think Connis’s point is that there’s an unknown character from the Rocks crew who will spill the info, not that Garp will do it

[obsidian bison]

My main point actually is that it's not gonna be kaidou or big mom

[ancient vault]

Cadet stop hes banned

[gray creek]

Lol okay. I think at this point we probably won’t get a GV flashback until BB, but I’d be happy to see Rocks in a Kaido flashback

[modest skiff]

I think we will be barely kept from a proper flashback of rocks. We'll get like half of it now and the other half in 50 chapters or something dreadful like that lol

[gray creek]

This feels like approaching #also-manga, but are you more confident there will be any sort of Kaido flashback now that we got a taste in 1035? I used to be afraid the raid was going on a bit too long to squeeze it in, but adding this apparent change from young Kaido to current on top of the cryptic Joyboy comment has my expectations skyrocketing for some sort of upcoming payoff

[ancient vault]

flashback def coming

[modest skiff]

You’re right, this is more of a manga topic, so let’s move there

[restive nimbus]

Edward Weevils mom

[torpid mist]

Vegapunk has a witch doctor devil fruit

Like some super combo of law and big mom

[modest skiff]

What makes you think that?

[torpid mist]

Exorcism power would be pretty useful for understanding DFs, given the connection to souls and such. Plus the doctor credit would be nicely wacky

[supple epoch]

franky’s bounty is going to be claimed post-wano, as franky shogun gets turned in with people thinking it’s his body

[near osprey]

who'd turn it in

[vast wigeon]

Caribou

[near osprey]

Can't wait to see Post Wano bounties

Can't wait to see everyone's reactions to Luffy beating Kaido

[vast wigeon]

Wonder if marines will cover any of it up or something

[near osprey]

How can they?

Morgans definitely would not cover that up

Big Mom and Kaido toppled at the hands of Luffy, Kidd and Law that's a headline

Not too mention the opening of Wano

"Kaido and Big Mom form an alliance which is quickly defeated shortly after by the Worst Generation! With Luffy being the ringleader! Leading the Samurai of Wano against the Beast Pirates"

[vast wigeon]

You know what you're right there is no way they are covering it up

I wonder what that final scene oda was exited to draw is

[near osprey]

It's going to rock the entire One Piece Universe mind you while this all going on the Shicibukai were abolished and the WG already has its hands full dealing with that

The moment this news breaks people will be making a go for Kaido and Big Mom's territories

[vast wigeon]

Man post wano is gonna be insane

The reverie too

[near osprey]

Yes

Oda has been setting up a bomb

The existing power structure was already starting to crumble after Marineford.

[ruby depot]

someone going to die

or already died morgan already teased it

i wonder what day is it after reviere

[near osprey]

It's been weeks I think

Wano is isolated from the outside world

[ruby depot]

luffy has sabo vivre card he know if he died so im assuming he did not

[near osprey]

Nah Sabo wouldn't die.

[ruby depot]

maybe the govt found out something about alabasta

and blackbeard did too and wants to get the poneglyph

[near osprey]

Pluton is rumored to be located in Alabasta it's why Crocodile wanted it.

[ruby depot]

neglyph

[near osprey]

I'll bet Uranus is on Wano

[ruby depot]

blackbeard has to have the voice of all things

or its the elephant

[near osprey]

Nah

[vast wigeon]

I think it will be in sky or summ

[ruby depot]

maybe he step on the red line before

and killed somepeople zuneshia foot print could very well be reverse mountain

just look at also where ever hes walking its to one point and back because there is not way to cross over the seas without stepping over the redline

[vast wigeon]

But he has 4 legs man how's he gonna get over with only 1 big step

[frozen lantern]

I just saw “the library of ohara theory” episode 6 and I can say how does this guy think like that

He even has stuff to back up what he says

[ripe geyser]

Yeah I don’t know how Ohara goes along with Denies Lobby either

If I thought Denies Lobby was 100% valid I would probably need a brain surgery

[hexed condor]

i think morj uranus theory is good (says the giant straw hat is uranus, and uranus is an item capable of foresight)

makes a whole lotta sense i gotta watch the video again

and yea post wano the one piece verse is gonna be fuckin chaos

[warm saffron]

I bet that, when luffy finds the one piece, he will disband his crew, like roger, and then he will go to the navy and be executed smiling, like roger
Zoro will either go back to his old home and train the future swordsman, or in wano
Like roger and his crew, only the captain would be caught, whilst the others would live their lives in secrecy in different islands, with one of them influencing a child of the future to do what luffy and roger did and find the one piece

[robust sierra]

I don't think luffy is meant to be a roger copy

[pure raven]

It won't be fun if the cycle continues to repeat

[warm saffron]

He does do stuff that roger does, says what roger said, and acts like how roger acted
Like how momonosuke saw down when Yamato talked to him, it’s kinda the same

[warm saffron]

It doesn’t have to be a cycle, it could be like bleach, how a new arc is talked about, but never happens
It would just end up being ending to think about
Like the end of back to the future part 3 as well, they showed stuff that could be seen for a sequel, but they never continued it

[vivid forum]

I have a hard time seeing luffy going quietly unless something forces him to. in roger's case he was terminal anyway

I think after one piece is going to be the destruction of fishman island and probably mariejois too

[modest skiff]

I don’t think Luffy just repeating Roger makes sense. The whole point is that Roger was too early. Toki and Oden both knew stuff goes down in 20 years. We have no reason to assume it just repeats again when Roger specifically acted the way he did for reasons we know were related to timing. Luffy is now around at the right time

[warm saffron]

Once the one piece is found by luffy and his crew, there is nothing else to do. Nothing else to find, I guess they would look at the rest of the islands that they didn’t look at

[vivid forum]

luffy's not the type to turn himself into the marines for no reason, or go quietly to his death, though. like even if they find the one piece (and somehow don't have some additional mission after finding one piece) luffy still has laboon to visit and a whole bunch of friends he left behind

[pure raven]

Luffy wants to visit all the people he met throughout his journey after he finds the one piece

[warm saffron]

I didn’t say he would immediately go to the navy

[modest skiff]

Roger found the one piece and wasn’t able to free the world. There’s plenty left to do after the one piece is found

[warm saffron]

Once again, I didn’t say that luffy would immediately turn himself in to the navy

[modest skiff]

The seakings also talked about how people would be born and ready to do stuff at a certain time, which is after Roger. We have a great deal of reason to think important things needed to happen much later and that is why Roger’s story ended the way it did. We have no reason to think the same happen to Luffy

He wouldn’t turn himself into the navy because his work isn’t finished until both the navy and the CDs are defeated. The world can’t be free until those 2 are defeated because the navy will always defend the CDs

Roger was too early and we have many indications Luffy is not too early. So it feels safe to say Luffy manages to make it all happen, since Oden, Toki, Seakings and Roger all believed more time was needed before everything could happen

[vivid forum]

yeah, like, when luffy's done there might not even be marines who will deal with his execution

[warm saffron]

Once again, for the third time, I didn’t say that luffy would immediately turn himself in to the navy

[warm saffron]

Maybe it could be something worse

[vivid forum]

well, I suppose anything's possible!

[warm saffron]

I can’t even see one piece ending in three years

[vivid forum]

well, I personally hope oda can wrap it all up in a few years, he's been going a long time

[modest skiff]

Why do you think there will even be a navy to turn himself into?

[vivid forum]

I worry for the health of mangakas

[warm saffron]

He had originally planned on wrapping one piece up 5 years after it came out

[modest skiff]

The whole point is the CDs are defended by the navy and the CDs need to be defeated. You can’t defeat the CDs without first defeating the navy or convincing them you’re the good guys rather than the CDs

[vivid forum]

(fwiw I still think there will be a navy at the end, otherwise coby's dream would end up totally crushed, they'll probably just be serving republics and doing proper civilian protection instead of serving a bunch of inbred lunatics)

[modest skiff]

There can be a navy at the end, but not one hostile towards Luffy

[vivid forum]

that I agree with

[modest skiff]

So the idea of turning himself in doesn’t make sense

[ancient vault]

Theyre gonna be defeated but rebuilt. Piracy as a whole is still bad and you need s military force to protect civilians and fight against criminals

[pure raven]

These mfs got the whole plot of one piece wrong. Having the will of someone doesnt mean that you're an exact clone of him otherwise it would be pretty predictable whats gonna happen next

[chilly moss]

I have a theory. I think BB will unveil a secret about the WG to the world, causing the navy to burst into infighting

Like maybe he’ll reveal imu’s existence

[surreal plume]

Hey, what if Kaidou isn't a samurai, BUT thinks the way of a samurai ?

Let me explain. A samurai usually gives everything they have to fight and protect their master and their name. A samurai does NOT die of age. The best way for a samurai to die is by the sword. Either would be the sword of their enemy, or they own (suicide to avoid the dishonor of being captured or running away from a fight)

Kaidou wants to die. He wants to die SO BAD. And what I find interesting is that he tried both suicide and finding an opponent strong enough to stop him, and kill him. Additionnally, Kaidou did say he didn't choose to sit in Wano by chance. He has a hidden reason to stay here.

What I'm thinking is that Kaidou is definitely not a samurai. He isn't a member of a dojo and he isn't using a sword. But he did have a mentor, someone who taught him a lot, and whom he's entirely dedicated his life. That man is Rocks D. Xebec . Idk if that philosophy of "You only have respect when you are the strongest" comes from him, but Kaidou must have grown up/had spent a lot of time with Xebec, and when the God Valley incident occured, Kaidou did something dishonouring, eventually leading to the fall of Xebec.

As a man who has grown a sorta samurai/master relationship, Kaidou felt so bad (meaning that he definitely didn't intend to do that mistake) that he started to want to die to repay his fault. However, BM saved him by giving him the demon fruit. Fruit he considers to be a "curse", probably because that fruit is so strong he can't die. But he stills considers that he owes one to BM.

Now what ? Kaidou has two options to repay his fault to his former captain. Either pursue Xebec's ambitions, or die. I recall, a samurai will definitely NOT die of age. So that's why he's so focused on either dying, or dominate the world (which was probably Xebec's plan)

[timber silo]

imu's existence might even be a turn on for the marines.

just knowing that wg is in full control of everything

[sand sail]

A samurai dying of old age is actually a sign of great power and mastery. It means they went virtually undefeated for their entire life.

[sturdy hound]

kaido certainly has some fascination with the way of the samurai/bushido overall, but i dont think it's to the point that he follows those teachings.
his fascination is mainly with death itself, as he seems to think it's all that matters in a person's life. it's about how you end your life, not how you live it. so kaido's liking for the way of the samurai is a natural consequence of his fascination with death itself.
people like roger and white beard brought great change upon the world with their deaths. roger starting the great age of piracy, and wb reinvigorating that by confirming the existence of the one piece. even oden's death reinforced that concept for kaido since that's when oden managed to get the people back on his side and unite them against kaido and orochi.

another things that's common among these incidents is that all of the people were strong. roger had to find the one piece, white beard engaged in an all out war with the marines, and oden stood in the oil for an hour carrying all of the scabbards as well as almost defeating kaido himself beforehand.
so as kaido sees these incidents from his own point of view influenced by his own experience and mentality, you need to be strong and your death needs to have an impact for your life to be fulfilling.
the question that remains is what are those experiences and that mentality? which i doubt the answer to is bushido, as explained so far.

something the solidifies that kaido is mainly obsessed with death itself is yamato's line (in the same chapter as the first spread) that juxtaposes kaido's.
both kaido and yamato love oden, but the latter loves him for his way of life and how that life impacted people, while kaido as discussed earlier, is only observing the result/culmination of that life.

kaido is also going after the ancient weapons to reach the one piece, both of which are symbols of power. so he does desire greatness in life, but only to make his death meaningful.

this also begs the question of how would have kaido's philosophy been had he read oden's journal? esp since that's why yamato loves oden as much as she does today. would be interesting

[placid kite]

Luffy is not turning himself in

[surreal plume]

people like roger and white beard brought great change upon the world with their deaths. roger starting the great age of piracy, and wb reinvigorating that by confirming the existence of the one piece. even oden's death reinforced that concept for kaido since that's when oden managed to get the people back on his side and unite them against kaido and orochi.

Would agree if kaidou didn't try to commit suicide. He's not trying to have an impacting death, he just wants to die

[ancient vault]

Good post especially the yamato vs kaido part

[ancient vault]

Also begs the question where he got this idea from? If we think about a role model its most likely xebecs but we know he already had an insane life with being famed rogers greatest foe and one of the worlds worst pirates.
Leads us to think what kind of death actually outmattered the insane life he lived?

[royal spruce]

so who wants to put money on Dragon having Lunarian Lineage?

[cyan berry]

@royal spruce that is not how this channel works, either explain why you think that or say nothing at all

[twin widget]

pretty sure luffy isn't gonna repeat what roger did, but more like finish it as roger was too early

[royal spruce]

alright, well I subscribe to the theory that Dragon isn't Garp's Son but that instead He's Xebec's son that Married Garp's Daughter. More importantly, The lunarian Lineage would further explain Why Xebec was erased from history and why Dragon's bounty is so large. in addition, thank's to King's face reveal it would explain why Dragon decided to get a tattoo on the right side of his face, (a popular skypiean trait) and explain Luffy's ability to just randomly combust. also helps that we haven't seen xebec's unshaded face yet.

granted, that's mostly speculation, but thats what I love about One piece theories, I keep hearing a bunch of crazy ones that clash with each other and in their own ways they make sense and are exciting.

[ancient vault]

the vivrecard straight up said Dragon is Garps son

[royal spruce]

right, cuz the vivre cards never mislead us before

[ancient vault]

Once out of 100s of times?

If you dont have any manga evidence to disprove whats written in the vivrecard then its simply just true and theres really no good reason to think it isnt tbh

[royal spruce]

im saying take everything in the data book with a grain of salt. until the series itself straight up confirms them

[ancient vault]

The vivrecards are a fact until the manga disproves it. People just use this one instance with sabos death to suddenly disprove everything else in vivrecards

[royal spruce]

so it sounds like we're on similar pages

[pure raven]

That proves that the vivre cards can be disproved

Although it doesn't mean their complete false. I just wouldn't use them in discussions

[ancient vault]

But to address all ur other points.

We dont need a lunarian race for Xebecs to rationalize why he was erased from history. None of the pirates in Level 6 were lunarians and theyre supposed to be erased from history.
Xebecs was simply a very influential and famous pirate that learned about the taboos and secrets of the world which the World Government dont want around.

We dont know Dragons bounty but again. Dragons bounty is not that high simply because of his race. Its because hes the leader of an organization that is actively working in the process of dismantling the system of the World Government.

Skypieans are not Lunarians. Theyre an entire different race
Both tattoos are different and saying every tattoo on the right side of the face means lunarian is a logical fallacy. (Also since when is that a popular skypiean trait?)
The only one with such thing in the Skypia arc as far as I can remember is Wyper who is a Shandorian and his tattoo also looks different.
Its actually the left side i just realised

[ancient vault]

We're not.

[pure raven]

I think it would be pretty good if rocks is lunarian personally. We gradually get closer characters to what kind of person sun god nika/joyboy was

And the flaming skull is a very big hint

The flaming skull either means he was the former mera mera no mi user

Or his lunarian

[ancient vault]

U just assumed Nika was a lunarian? Lunarians have their flames on the back as far as we know.
But yes the flaming skull of Xebecs and it being connected to Nika I can see. Have seen that too

[pure raven]

Assumed yknow. Let's just ignore that his head looks like it's on fire

[ancient vault]

Could simply be another fruit or its a new race aside from Lunarians. Nika doesnt have wings

[royal spruce]

ah you're right about the tattoo thing. Its not as prominent as i thought, its just wyper. which ay point it to the tatto being more ceremonial in nature considering his importance

[pure raven]

He is literally called the sun god with a flaming head. Both strong indications of being a lunarian

Also don't forget the damn fact that he is called a god when the lunarians were called gods

And also ignore the damb fact the lunarians were purged and enslaved and he is said to free slaves

You say assuming like were pulling the idea of him being lunarian out of our ass

[royal spruce]

Also the flames seem to be adjustable.

[ancient vault]

What?

Sun = Lunarian since when??????

[pure raven]

Sun and flames are heavily connected bro

[royal spruce]

you must be new to the one piece theory scene

[ancient vault]

Well you are

The only connection you got is a flaming head.

Lunarians trademarks so far are

Flame on the BACK
Black Wings
White hair

The nika silhouette ticks off none of these

[pure raven]

And ace literally created a damn sun with said mera mera no mi so tf are you talking about

The only 2 sun's we seen in the story were created by big mom and ace

Stop acting like we're picking at straws

[ancient vault]

@amber oar

[pure raven]

Who both have fire abilities

[royal spruce]

Dark skin too, dont forget that

[ancient vault]

Yes forgot that

[royal spruce]

kinda like Dragon...

[pure raven]

This guy loves to play devil's advocate man

[ancient vault]

No ur theory is just bad Jesus.

Tell me why the flame is not on the back and why Nika doesnt have Wings?

And give me a answer that can be supported with evidence and doesnt actually go against what we were told in the manga

[pure raven]

The flames can clearly be controlled

And if king was blackened out as a silouhette he would look like he has a flaming head

[ancient vault]

Show me a time where the flame is not on Kings back but somewhere else???? Where is this "clearly" youre speaking of??? I dont remember that

[royal spruce]

we haven't seen anything about Mica jet, just a stylized shilhouette that looks like a hyroglyph. I wouldn't look too deep into it until we get more pieces to that puzzle

[pure raven]

Bro your starting to piss me of chill out a bit

We're just talking one piece. Your acting like we in a court csse

[ancient vault]

Go to #also-manga if you wanna speculate on baseless behalf. Theres literally stuff in the manga disproving you. This channel is not just for headcanons. Its annoying when you make up stuff after I ask you to prove sth.

[surreal oriole]

He was defending with the flames when zoro are cutting him wasnt he? Like the line zoro cut on king was on fire. Being kings defense

[ancient vault]

We dont know. All we know is when the flame is on Kings defense is on the Max and he doesnt get hurt. We dont know the exact mechanism

[surreal oriole]

Not supporting the theory, just that king has control of the fire

[ancient vault]

he can turn it on and off. We dont know if he can change the literally position of the flame

[royal spruce]

who's got longer legs? zunisha? or the horse Swrml is riding on?

[surreal oriole]

Ah okay I see what you mean

[ancient vault]

Im genuienly asking for a time where King had put the flame from his back to somewhere else

[pure raven]

The only people who have conjured suns in one piece are fire users.

The term god has only been used for the celestials and lunarians.

He literally has a flaming head. And king can control said flames. That means he can cover any part of his body in them.

[pure raven]

He literally puts them on his damb legs tf are you talking about

If he can put the flames on his nape all the way to his legs of course he can cover his head in them tf

I gave multiple reasons why sun god nika is very likely to be lunarian but your just ignoring all of them and expecting me to read your counters

[surreal oriole]

I dont think he's is lunarian but most likely tied to their history and the AK. But actually being lunarian idk

[amber oar]

jesus, I guess everything is lunarian isn't it

Nika is lunarian
Sanji is lunarian
I guess Ace was a lunarian as well, and Sabo a sworn lunarian by sake cups

[ancient vault]

Yeah but his flame always stays on on his back unless he starts speeding.
And dont ignore the part where I asked for the wings?

[pure raven]

Oh damn he brought his fucking boy lmao

[amber oar]

Nika's silhouette doesn't even have wings, that should rule him out

[pure raven]

Ace has a fruit
Sabo has a fruit

Kings silouhette didn't have wings either that is a very shitty argument

Kings silouhette did not have wings either what kind of argument is that

Bro your literally contradicting yourself. A silouhette not having wings rules him out yet Kings didn't and he ended up with wings

[surreal oriole]

It's a possibility but a unlikely one. Imo

[amber oar]

when did we see King without wings?

[ancient vault]

Ik what hes talking about. That silhouette is nowhere near as clear as a Nika silhouette. Also if oda had drawn kings wings here it would have blocked Queens silhouette.

[royal spruce]

G5stormman, just give it a rest, you're wasting you're time and energy on these guys

[ancient vault]

How am I reaching with these wings

[amber oar]

Hyogoro's hair looks like fire, does that imply anything?

[pure raven]

Your reaching that oda didn't draw Kings wings because it would block queen's face lmao. I'm dying over here bro

[summer ermine]

a bit off topic - does anyone recon theres a correlation between sea kings and devil fruits as to cross the calm belt you need to be covered in sea stones and dfs are stopped via sea stones

[amber oar]

We haven't seen Nika's hair in literal fire, we saw he has something in his head (that could be hair, or even be something else like a crown or another ornament!) that looks like fire

Hyogoro's hair looks like fire

As things stand there's nothing setting them apart in regards to that

[ancient vault]

no. The way the seastone works for crossing the seabelt was explained around chapter 100 up I think

[sand sail]

It's in the 400's, after Enies Lobby

[ancient vault]

I dont really get your connection here.

If we go off off your connection then Nika whos a sun god should be a Devil fruit user.

Lunarians have nothing to do with the sun as far as we know because the two people that created suns youre talking about are devil fruit users

[ancient vault]

okay my bad. I thought it was explained when they crossed it with nami

How can you not use that as an argument? What do you have to speak against the fact that nikas hair could simply be like hyogoros?

[amber oar]

And for the record, I believe that panel with Kaido's commanders is an unfinished design, deliberately made diffuse because Oda hadn't entirely figured them, which includes among other things Queen with a completely differently shaped smile, and 28 year old Jack in a scene from the distant past. On the other hand, Nika's silhouette is very well defined

But if you want to rationalize it, King could just be on hybrid form

[ancient vault]

The celestial dragons are not a tribe

[summer ermine]

can someone reply to the start of this theory? - wanna read it

[ancient vault]

#manga-theories message

no real theory just chat began from there

[amber oar]

or even not be hair, but a crown or something similar

[amber oar]

in fact, the celestial dragons are the combination of 20 19 royal families across the world

[versed hamlet]

Oh my god is rhis the fire “lunarian” shit ur talking about cuz that is literally a hat. You can see how unnatural and how unlike king that looks.

[amber oar]

love how Lunarians are hyped as an extremely race lost in time, from which King may be the last survivor, or one of the very few, and now people want to push the notion that everyone and their mother have lunarian heritage

[ancient vault]

Only 2 people who have created sun's are fire users

Only 2 tribes referred to as gods are lunarians and celestials

We know celestials are the ones who harbour slaves. They aren't slaves themselves.

His hair literally looks like it's on fire

Yeah im still hang on the connection between lunarians and the sun exactly?
Lets ignore the wings
So Nika who doesnt look lunarian except for possibly the hair is supposed to be a lunarian because they control fire?
But then theres nothing actively saying the hair doesnt simply look like fire in a symbolic way and he actually has the fire devil fruit?
Since the only two users that created suns were Devil fruit users not lunarian so technically your best bet is actually going by the fact that Nika is a fire or soul fruit users

[pure raven]

Or maybe going with the fact that nika has fire related powers

[ancient vault]

Did he get banned? Was this another alt again

[pure raven]

What are you talking about

[ancient vault]

The guy is not in the server anymore I think. Sorry didnt mean u

[summer ermine]

xebecs hair is very similars to nikas on the silhouette and his photo when his crew was mentioned

[ancient vault]

@modest skiff was it another alt? I wanted to tag you but got distracted

[pure raven]

I think he has dreadlocks

[amber oar]

I saw for a split second the message "G5stormman was banned", to be honest I thought it was an excessive move

[summer ermine]

i can see that, what exactly is everyone argueing over lmao

[modest skiff]

Yeah just cleaning up the channel now to keep the channel pure

[ancient vault]

I dont see it tbh

[ancient vault]

Its an alt. The guy keeps coming in with different accounts I think

[pure raven]

Dreads

[summer ermine]

hmm maybe an ancestor of xebecs?

[ancient vault]

Rocks = Locs
Dreadlocks yk

[pure raven]

Huh

[summer ermine]

i cant lie ive not got a clue whats the arguement here

[ancient vault]

You know how japanese pronounce R as L

[pure raven]

A haircut makes you think they are related

[amber oar]

Maybe Nika is the first D.

Remember Luffy's silhouette in Skypiea's epilogue?

[summer ermine]

ushimaru and zoro is a good example lmao

[pure raven]

They look like each other in the face

[summer ermine]

true, i dont think they are related just putting it out there

[pure raven]

I mean whatever rocks is. He has some influence on blackbeard

[summer ermine]

but its how, he cant just be an idol

[pure raven]

Influence doesn't necessarily mean idolise bro

[summer ermine]

huh

[amber oar]

Teach named a ship Saber of Xebec, there's a good chance he looks up to Rocks

[split glacier]

The guy between BM and WB is Rocks right?

[summer ermine]

thats why i said he cant just be one

[versed hamlet]

The thing is with nika, it doesnt even look like hair. Its like a hat of some kind id say. Maybe nika has his own “strawhat” not in the sense as its literally a straw hat moreso its a defining accessory to his appearance

[pure raven]

I don't think he looks up to him. I think he is being controlled. Why would he look up to a guy who was erased

[amber oar]

yeah, the "tiny" one
"tiny" in quotes because given the size of the people at his sides, he must have been around 4-5m

[split glacier]

His hair kinda removes the Dragon same hair connection with that picture.

[pure raven]

Bb is too young to be influenced by rocks. And he was 11 Yrs old searching for a df most didn't know existed.

He had a plan from that young. Meaning either a Stan of xebec groomed him or xebec himself

[summer ermine]

i cant lie, he looks a lot like a faun in the silhouette as it could be horns and curly hair

[amber oar]

BB just had to read chroniques or something, maybe a journal got to his hands somehow

isn't that basically how Yamato ended idolizing Oden?

[pure raven]

Not really. That picture is now where near refined enough

It looks like black circle with spikes coming out of it

[split glacier]

You mean his head?

[pure raven]

The first and 3rd silouhette actually show his face shape and the texture of his hair

That one with bm isn't useful for anything

[versed hamlet]

Oda wouldnt repeat that though

[summer ermine]

its too blunt to be flames imo - has to be dreads

and its a black culture to have dreads linking him to bb even more

[split glacier]

I mean Dragon isn't his son anyways but I'm just saying how hair looks in a natural stance looks completely different to the "Dragon" hair.

[pure raven]

Bb might be his son. But dragon or shanks no way

[summer ermine]

bruh dragons hair is nothing like xebecs

[pure raven]

Shanks has red straight hair. Rocks hair is neither the same colour or texture

[summer ermine]

dragons goes down and pointy whereas xebecs is up and blunt

[split glacier]

Shanks and BB are rather 50-50 in terms of chances

[pure raven]

Shanks is very unlikely man. Looks nothing like him. Has barely any knowledge of him. What would that even do for the story

[split glacier]

Could be red. A silhouette doesn't mean it's black lol

[summer ermine]

a silhouette could be any colour lmao

[split glacier]

The same said for BB. He doesn't look anything like him

[pure raven]

Bro the silouhette with the legends has wb and shanks hair as grey/white.
Which reflects the light nature of the hair colour

[ancient vault]

yamato did see Oden die

[ancient vault]

oda does what he wants when it becomes to shading regarding hair color

[versed hamlet]

Well tbf swrml its possible for bb to have seen rocks die too

[split glacier]

Don't die on a silhouette hill like the other dude lol

[versed hamlet]

But he wouldnt have cognitive abilities at the time though

[pure raven]

Bro he shaded roger oden and xebecs hair black. This doesn't mean xebec has black hair i give you that. But he shaded wb and shanks hair colours in grey/white scale

And we know wbs hair is blonde while shanks hair is red. Both light colours.

In contrast to roger and oden who have black.

That confirms shanks and xebec don't have the same hair colour. And they look nothing alike aswell

[sand sail]

Tenacious little alt

Don't worry about him

[amber oar]

Yeah but that doesn't really make as much difference
Luffy idolizes Roger via stories

[versed hamlet]

How do you know that was an alt LOL

[split glacier]

The "bro" was telling lol

[sand sail]

Don't worry about it It's easy to find out

Shame they can't seem to get the hint

[amber oar]

damn, I randomly rotate between "dude", "bro" and "mate". Better be wary of what I use

[sand sail]

Nah it's the same dude who's been doing it for months now, just no need to even let the convo go more lol

[amber oar]

Mods can see IPs?

[split glacier]

He has more problems to worry about than silhouettes it seems...

[sand sail]

Nah, but don't worry about it, best not to even keep talking about it here lmao

[amber oar]

k let's move on

[ancient vault]

People cant change how they talk

[ancient vault]

You cant check IPs on discord and they use VPNs anyways but lets move on

What you guys think is Luffys dream?

[split glacier]

Big party seems to be the consensus w/ every race or something

[ancient vault]

Im not really sold on that tbh

[sand sail]

That's something he'll love doing, but I don't think that's any kind of dream he has

Especially if it's Roger's same dream, 'cause he couldn't do that

[ancient vault]

wdmy couldnt?

[sand sail]

Roger achieved his dream, but he never partied with every race, he only had a party with his crew

[split glacier]

It's something "childish"

[ancient vault]

Oh we're assuming achieved his dream

[sand sail]

Outrageous, not necessarily childish

Yeh, Roger achieved his dream

But also, Oden and getting to Laugh Tale was part of his dream, so odds are it was more than just a party in the end

[sand sail]

Yeh, it's not a childish goal, it's just making an outrageous claim is a childish thing

[ancient vault]

Thats not the official TL

Volume scan

@sand sail Just brainstorming since I never really acknowledged or realized that Roger had achieved his dream.

Maybe he said he would turn everyone into a Pirate?

He achieved his first step by sailing to Laugh Tale and finding the One Piece so he can set off the Great Pirate Age since he turned a lot of people into pirates

[sand sail]

Yeh, but Roger generally was shown to have achieved just what he wanted. So maybe it was turning everyone into a pirate as well? But, getting to Laugh Tale seemed to be his full picture

[slate mirage]

The theory makes sense,but i personally i don't like. I hope it's a real twist,and something more interesting

Although there will be a big party for sure at the end

[twin widget]

why do you guys think roger laughed when he found the One Piece?

[proud tree]

Theory: How did CP0 know that Cesar was still active at Punk Hazard, while the marines (smoker included) thought Punk Hazard was completely deserted? We know about Stussys name "Queen of the Pleasure district". Fitting to her name she provided her services to Cesar through the "girl ships", while spying on his (research) activity. As a CP0 member she would not tell the marines and only report to CP0.

[split glacier]

So it's something a little boy would do/say/want.

[modest skiff]

I think he realized he was too early to overthrow the CDs so his only objective was to project his will into the next generation, which he did. It is mentioned that many people who attended his execution and heard his inspiring speech in person ended up being high profile, accomplished people. I think he kind of injected his dream into them. By passing on his will, he accomplished his goal

[sand sail]

See, I don't think overthrowing them was ever going to be part of his goal tbh

Otherwise he'd have shouted out some Void Century info imo

[ancient vault]

Kill them

Brutally murder them. Cause he hates them.

[modest skiff]

I disagree because, for example, Luffy wants to learn everything on his own. I think the journey and whatnot is important for making someone the right person for the job. Similar to how Ace's execution ended up being crucial for Luffy's growth

[sand sail]

Well, Luffy wanted to learn it because he wanted a fun adventure, not one where he gets spoiled in the end. Ace's execution was a big event, but it doesn't seem to have stuck with Luffy too much since it happened, it seemed to mostly teach him about how to despair less at failing if anything

With Roger and Laugh Tale, Rayleigh even mentions they may come to a different conclusion than the Roger pirates did once they find what's there

With Roger, he doesn't give any anti-government sentiments ever, he just tells them to go find the treasure themselves. He seemed too late for Joyboy, not for overthrowing anything as the theme

[amber oar]

Caesar was literally broadcasting his scientific developments to people from the underworld, and a glimpse of Lucci was seen among the viewers.

In regards to marines, many branches handle info that others not. Probably some higher ups were aware but nobody from G5 in particular (Aside from Vergo, obviously).

[modest skiff]

I think Ace dying was important because it gave Luffy a lot of humility and made him realize he won't be able to bulldoze into his dream. It isn't so much that it is a persistent effect as it was a wake up call

but who knows, we'll find out

[haughty plinth]

Since almost every SH got a power up, I think it’s safe to assume Franky will yoink Queen’s technology. That’s a stupid theory based on nothing. Fight me

[sturdy hound]

im hoping to have all that revealed in kaido's fb
i would assume that rocks died in the god valley incident, so wondering how that death was significant/world changing. though i wouldnt be surprised if it was just rocks's life philosophy that kaido adopted, or perhaps smth that predated rocks himself that was only solidified during the god valley incident. lotsa great potential with kaido as a character here.

also yea, the juxtaposition between kaido and yamato in 994 is one of my favorite things in wano, if not op overall. such a great move by oda.

[split glacier]

I think Franky has A LOT he's still hiding. I don't think all he got was a few new transport vehicles and a laser beam. Dude was in Vegapunk lab for 2 years. Still got the Pluto schematics in his old noggin too.

[muted valley]

Same, we havnt seen anything really besides his bike and general franky

[gloomy canyon]

See the thing is, if we’re to assume Roger and Luffy are part of this centuries long will that started with Joyboy and potentially even Nika, I think the end goal and fulfilment of this will is basically world liberation. Even tho we’ve never seen Roger shouting anti-government sentiment, neither does Luffy really. But we still know ultimately, the thing that epitomises Luffy is freedom and liberation. Roger was too early because of Poseidon not being born yet but I think the end goal would still be the same for Roger as it will be for Luffy. If Roger was alive rn he’d be doing what Luffy is bound to do

[rapid copper]

Franky could beat queen

[gloomy canyon]

Keep it serious in here please. You can take that to #manga

[ancient vault]

Sengoku did say hes no longer alive

[sand sail]

Sure, the overthrowing is going to be the inevitable conclusion of the series, but that's not their dreams/goals/ideals at the moment. Nor was it when either of them made their declaration. But naturally, that's where it'll have to go since that's what will probably be what happens some time after Laugh Tale

[gloomy canyon]

Oh right I just read up, yeah it wasn’t at the forefront of Rogers mind before he found laugh tale and it’s definitely not at the forefront of Luffys mind lol. But It’s still part of the will they’ve inherited even if they don’t always realise it. Freedom and liberation is what they stand for

[placid kite]

roger laughed at the greatest joke of the millenia

[vestal orbit]

the one piece is the official minecraft joke book

[sharp vessel]

Is tenguyama a lunarian

[amber oar]

He's been spotted at the festival without the wings, so, no

His wings are white anyway

[modest skiff]

My theory on Lunarians/Xebec/Joyboy

As we know, Lunarians used to live on the Red Line. I think they occupied a few different regions rather than being exclusively on a single island like certain races, like giants. While I believe the ancient kingdom was a set of various races/kingdoms, similar to Reverie, I think the Lunarians were one of the key members, perhaps the soft “leader” of the large alliance, which I think included Alabasta, Shandians, Fishmen, Wano, Minks, potentially giants, tsukimi race and 3 eyed tribe. I think glyphs are written in the language of Lunarians, which is one of the key reasons the WG has worked to completely exterminate them.

I think that Imu was jealous and paranoid about Lunarians and wanted to rule the world. I think he convinced 1 or more of the components of the ancient kingdom to betray the Lunarians. My main suspicion is that Alabasta was the one to betray the AK. My baseless theory is that Imu framed the AK for the death/assassination of the queen of Alabasta. This event made the AK appear dangerous and inspired the uprising against Lunarians/AK. I think that eventually, Alabasta and others learned the reality of what they did. I think that is why Zunesha is being punished and I think it is why Alabasta chose not to live in Marie Jois. Both had a ton of guilt in overthrowing the Lunarians.

Wano appears to be the only kingdom that has retained the glyph language. I don’t have an explanation for that, but it appears to be intentionally secret, since only the Kozuki clan has the knowledge and it is passed directly with no written records/instructions. I think during the void century, the races that were allowed to survive, listed above, had to agree to erase Lunarian history/language from their cultures/populations in order to survive. I think there was some sort of cease fire at one point where the agreement was the complete and total erasure of Lunarians and the void century. I don’t think there was a mass amnesia event.

It feels likely to me that the Lunarians were some sort of keepers of something sacred/powerful/important atop the Red Line and it was a source of paranoia/envy to humans, which is what inspired them to exterminate Lunarians. My suspicion is that the Celestial Dragons managed to seize/occupy this thing (which I believe to be a world tree, either eve or adam) but that they lack the capability to fully utilize it. If this/these thing(s) were a source of great power, I think this contributes to CDs reigning as dictators, through fear of what they can do. One of my main theories is that this power allows for controlling the sea level of the planet, which would be a reason the navy would bend the knee, out of fear of the world dying during a war. Raising the sea level would leave Marie Jois as the only survivors since they have tried to make sure no one else can live on the Red Line. But I think the whole thing is a bluff and they actually can't use it and that is the "secret of marie jois" Doffy talks about.

I think Lunarians were able to control what the CDs can not in a way that made them extremely dangerous, but they were kind rulers. Take nuclear energy for example, extremely destructive, or you could just use it for energy generation. My hope is that it is either the Adam or Eve tree, the other of which I think forms the basis of the Elbaf kingdom. I think Giant’s civilization is basically built upwards through a giant tree that extends into the white sea and perhaps even beyond that.

In chapter 1035, we learned Lunarians can deactivate the flame on their back, which allows them to move faster. When the fire burns, they have extreme durability. This means a Lunarian could hide in plain sight by simply turning off their flame. That opens up possibilities.

I think Nika/Joyboy were a Lunarian. I think that when the war against the AK was lost, Joyboy assembled a team, which were the first pirate crew. I think Joyboy assembled a team from each of the kingdoms and Neptune is the first we have seen that shows what the crew member’s job was, shipwright. I think the wrench represents the history of fishmen serving as a shipwright, starting out with the very first pirate crew, Joyboy’s. This crew had a single objective, liberation and freedom. That is where all of the lore around “the sea…is for pirates…to fight on…”, which I think ends with “for freedom”. They were the first freedom fighters.

Needless to say, they were not successful. I don’t think all the Lunarians were defeated. One of my main One Piece theories is that Lunarians escaped into the larger world, a world which is what made Roger laugh at Laugh Tale. We know there are space pirates, which presumably came from other planets. I think the reality that the universe is vast showed Roger he was a nobody. I think he was humbled and laughed about it. The most badass pirate crew ever was actually just the biggest fish in a small pond. I think one of the reasons the CDs want to hide the One Piece is that it reveals the world is large and people don’t need to live under the CDs. Perhaps it is a mechanism of reaching higher areas within the white sea or even space itself.

So I think a lot of Lunarians escaped, but many remained behind, such as Joyboy. I think Xebec was a descendant of these stay-behind Lunarian freedom fighters. They passed on their language, their history, everything.

I think Xebec had a sister who hid her Lunarian ancestry so that she could live a normal life while Xebec was hyper committed to wiping out the CDs once and for all. 800 years of rape, slavery and imprisonment needed to be ended.

I think that somewhere along the way, Garp met Xebec’s sister and eventually had a kid, Dragon, together. So Dragon is Xebec’s nephew, which is why they have a somewhat similar appearance. One day, an event took place involving CDs, Xebec, his sister and perhaps others. As a result of this event/conflict, Xebec’s sister, Garp’s wife, ended up being killed. I think the situation was complicated. I think Garp blamed Xebec for his wife’s death. I think Xebec blamed the CDs. This ended up being why Garp has an unwavering belief that pirates need to be eliminated and why Xebec decided to plan a huge attack on Marie Jois. Garp sees pirate’s fight for freedom as hopeless (because he’s a worthless coward) and just creating needless death. Xebec (correctly) believes 800 years of rape and slavery is enough reason to sacrifice some lives for long term freedom.

Kaido saved King because he admires Lunarians and respects their history. Kaido knows he needs someone who can read glyphs to reach Laugh Tale. King is his key to that.

Neptune's tattoo I talk about:

[celest swan]

God damn, nice

[modest skiff]

Thanks! It's a bit disorganized because I'm really bad at organizing my thoughts, but I will try to make it easier to read in the future

[rare rose]

oh damn I just realize Sanji broke Queen's arm. The very arm shooting the lazers. Guess who will get that arm. Franky will be shooting machine gun lazers soon

[versed hamlet]

I think glyphs are written in the language of Lunarians, which is one of the key reasons the WG has worked to completely exterminate them.
I feel like this would imply a sort of connection between a lunarian, like king for instance, and robin then at some time in the future, which I can't really see at all. Plus this means that the Kozukis, the creators of the glyphs would be related to the lunarians which we haven't really been alluded to yet.

Imu framed the AK for the death/assassination of the queen of Alabasta
This would be interesting if it was true because then it would show a parallel between what would be shown in the void century flashback and with what could happen in the present plot's future.

"secret of marie jois" Doffy talks about.
Correct me if im wrong though, doffy said he could basically weaponize the secret along with the perennial youth surgery of the opop fruit which would let him rule the world, and if its a bluff then im not sure why doffy would say that.

[modest skiff]

My memory tells me those 2 things aren’t connected but perhaps I am wrong. If I am, that part of my theory goes out the window

[versed hamlet]

Which two.

[modest skiff]

Sorry, the secret of Marie Jois and the surgery

[versed hamlet]

Wait is the secret of the marie jois and the treasure of marie jois the same thing?

[modest skiff]

I don’t know if they are the same thing

[versed hamlet]

Because the way doffy is talking about it implies that he has enough knowledge to confirm the validity of it along with the fact that it ensures the ability to rule the world if paired with eternal youth

[modest skiff]

[gray creek]

Is it possible he means personality swapping? I don’t remember the context of this convo or what day he’s referring to

[versed hamlet]

The treasure in marijoa + the eternal youth surgery is the two things he's talking about

[austere silo]

He is talking about imu

[gray creek]

Looks like he mentions the surgery and personality swapping specifically. Of course the surgery was part of his plan, but I’m struggling to think how having it would have helped him secure any power. It makes more sense to me that the surgery is something you use after to make sure you can hold onto your power. I think Im is the secret and personality swapping would have allowed Doffy to hijack Im’s body on whatever day he says

[pure raven]

Somebody noticed that sanji's eyebrows in film red are original not similar to his siblings
Idk if it is cannon or not but not offense

[placid kite]

na

[sand sail]

@placid kite Go ahead and read the channel description for me

[deep herald]

Thousand sunny gonna get a devil fruit I'm calling it

[modest skiff]

What kind of fruit do you think they’ll get? What kind of purpose do you think it will be intended to serve? Do you think Franky learned how to put a devil fruit in a non living object or someone else will do it?

Also, since devil fruit users can’t swim, I wonder what that would mean for a boat my first thought is that it would not work, but maybe floating doesn’t count the same way

I can’t imagine a boat would sink due to a devil fruit…hmmm

[deep herald]

I feel like Franky is gonna learn from the shipwright of whitebeards crew on how to put a df into the ship and it would be a mythical blue whale zoan type zoan (bc whitebeards ship was the Moby dick) and it since its a whale type it would be able to go on water n sht

and I think it'll be introduced by something will happen at saboady and the ship not being able to be coated and Franky meets whitebeards shipwright and the ship is able to fishman island to get rid of big mom's rule permanently

[shut finch]

I don’t think Franky would want to put a devil fruit into the ship to be honest. Mohdoo’s point about the logistics of it being on water is good too

[rotund pine]

I have a theory that dr vegapunk will awaken the admirals df

Giving them insane power boost

[deep herald]

Are they not already awakened???

[pure raven]

Dunno

The admirals never stated

[rustic granite]

Isn't Punk Hazard basically awakening?

I mean if people who are Commander level and higher like Doffy,Kata,Kidd and Law have Awakenings,the Admirals must have them

[muted ember]

I think punk hazard is just them fighting for 10 days

[low swallow]

The most likely awakened logia is Crocodile

[rustic granite]

You forgot that they literally changed the atmosphere of the island

[muted ember]

I didn't forget I just don't think that's their awakening

[low swallow]

Croc made this statement "I've honed my powers to perfection"

And he knows about awakening

So he isn't just saying it randomly

[muted ember]

The evidence would be that Franky saw Vegapunk's research on feeding objects devil fruits

Marco is Whitebeard's real son. I have no evidence, but Weevil's age does not align w Whitebeard's time on Rocks. Weevil is searching for Marco, who is protecting Whitebeard's hometown which would make more sense if Marco was from there too

That's why the theory not about that genius

The theory is not whether Weevil is his real son or not so u have no reason to point it out

Well at least now u know the actual topic

[ancient vault]

Lol youre back again

[muted ember]

To someone who didn't even understand what I was saying at first, maybe

[elfin lynx]

I don't think Maro is Whitebeard's actual son, when the whitebeard crew landed at wano, (if memory serves corectly) it was stated that marco was an apprentice at that time. Implying Marco wasn't with whitebeard throughout his pirating career

[ancient vault]

Dragon is garps son

[muted ember]

Almost every pirate we see doesn't raise their kids. My hc is that WB recruited him later as a teenager without telling him so he wouldn't be treated different from the rest of the crew

[ancient vault]

Their name and the fact that the vivre card says dragon is garps son lol

One mistake out of 1000 times correct

[muted ember]

Yea he's from Goa

[elfin lynx]

That doesn't sound like wb thing to do, son is son.

[ancient vault]

Its not

[muted ember]

Wdym? His whole thing is that his whole crew is a family so it wouldn't matter if he told Marco or not

[ancient vault]

He also didnt have a vivrecard say ace is dragons son but alright

Whatever I already had this discussion with someone else not really interested in this

Interesting

[elfin lynx]

I mean sabo looks pretty dead in the gif

[muted ember]

Sabo wasn't pronounced dead in a vivre card it was a databook that's a made up thing for ppl who want to dismiss vivre cards

[ancient vault]

It wasnt even the vivrecard

And hes gone again

[ancient vault]

How old is weevil again

[muted ember]

He's 35

[ancient vault]

Hm yh. I‘ve seen a theory long ago that says that bakkins ate a blood fruit and took wbs blood and created a clone out of that

Let me link the video

https://youtu.be/HgoqAoC04A4

[muted ember]

I'll check it out

[sterile hound]

i can see that but i see no real resemblance to Whitebeard & Marco

actually nvm Marco & Whitebeard have the same hair color

[muted ember]

He has blond hair. Besides that, I would add that the other Yonko kids we've seen don't resemble their parents except Lola and Chiffon

[split glacier]

It would be pretty cool and a big ass callback/foreshadow if Croc was awakened making Goda even more mythical. There's a lot of signs and signifiers but who knows. Haki wasn't even invented back then right?

[weak plaza]

Because this happen in old Chinese drama
The girl sacrifice herself into the forging furnace of sword to make the sword had a soul.
it is also happen in anime Tora and Ushio where the guy use himself to forge into a spear

So I think that might be the case. The girl sacrifice herself to the sword for the better of Zoro future. She might hear some conversation about it and do it without hesitations

[split glacier]

That's a bit morbid for OP lol. "Let me fall down some stairs and break my neck so some dude can get stronger"

[mystic crown]

I support the crocodile awakened theory that he was using it in Alabasta thus weakening himself. The dance powder while it may cause rain shortages I dont believe would cause long terms drought however a crocodile awakeing woumd explain how he lost and also why it started raining the moment of his defeat

SHORT: Dance powder was a public explanation to explain the rain shortage and villanize royal family while crocodile was actually using awakening to mainatin drought

[weak plaza]

Will there be purple or black haki or golden haki ?

[weak plaza]

Yeah lol it’s not match up with the storyline in the first place.

[pastel elk]

are the raws out

[copper frost]

Not the channel to ask, the spoilers channels are there for that

[gray creek]

That’s a retcon I wouldn’t be mad about. The rain/drought stuff is already consistent enough with the dance powder explanation, so I don’t expect this to come about. Regardless, a totally plausible idea

[plucky kiln]

Crocodile is cool
I wonder if he will side with Luffy again

[muted ember]

U don't need to be awakened to change the weather either. Ace stopped the snow in Drum island just by being there and I doubt he was awakened

[plucky kiln]

The World Right now:

Marine: Hunting Shichibukai (Boa, Buggy, Weevil, Mihawk)
WG Agents: Going to Wano
Blackbeard, Moriah: ??????
Shanks: ??????
Revolutionary Army: ??????
Sabo & the commanders: ?????
Crocodile: ??????
Doffy, Bon Clay: Impel Down

[mint prairie]

Isn't Bon Clay out of Impel Down?

[gray creek]

Nope, new leader of 5.5

[mint prairie]

Oh, great. The greatest Newkama has taking the throne.

[gray creek]

I think you’re right, but it’s totally within the realm of possibility that Ace was awakened. And environmental change could definitely make sense as a logia awakening. At that point though, that makes pretty much all of our main logia users awakened, half of them retconned as being so, and that’s just weird

[jaunty brook]

What if:
Kaido is defeated by luffy, but not killed. Kaido sees the joyboy in luffy and basically uses his last lifespan/energy to defeat cp0 in order to have a glorious death and let the joyboy finish his journey

Wouldnt that be a great ending to wano? So far kaido is giving the vibes of the strongest to live ever, yet being respectful to power and will. At some point he was probably as eager as luffy, but life hit him hard, he got betrayed and chose wano as a destination to fulfill his wish: die as a samurai, a glorious death.

Here he meets luffy, the joyboy he once was, but he witnesses first hand that after defeating him twice, luffy is still up and manages to overcome him.

In his eyes luffy is now something he never could be and he gives up his life to stop cp0 and let joyboy to fulfill his destiny

[pure raven]

Why would he want to turn everyone a pirate

[sand sail]

Because then everyone is free

[weak arrow]

Roger wanted as many people to sail as possible in hopes that it would increase the chance of finding laugh tale.

[pure raven]

So luffy and roger don’t have the same dream?

Because assuming they do that doesn’t make sense...

[sand sail]

Sure it does, that came after Roger found Laugh Tale

The dream they share would've been before he got there

Him wanting everyone to be go find Laugh Tale is so someone can follow in his footsteps, presumably, for whatever One Piece is. It isn't his dream, that was his last ditch effort at whatever he found not being buried another 800 years

[pure raven]

So luffy’s dream is wanting everyone to find the one piece

[weak arrow]

Rogers dream was to become pirate king. He did so. Then he wanted someone else to achieve that dream, particularly 25 years later

[pure raven]

So he said then i’ll be pirate king

Also iirc roger didn’t really care much about pk

[weak arrow]

I mean he cared very much about finding laugh tale.

[pure raven]

He found it interesting though

[sand sail]

We don't actually know if he did or not

It's unclear whether Pirate King was a concept before he got to Laugh Tale, or something they made just for him, but either way his dream was to sail the entire sea as the freest man

[abstract pond]

Drake and Apoo are the ones defeating CP0 most likely. Supernovas are pretty strong.
And Kaido is probably just going to prison if the Wano/WG doesn't execute him.

[split glacier]

If Drake is alive by then 👀

[gray creek]

Everyone says the WG can’t hold Kaido, but Impel Down would do it if they manage to get him there before he sinks the prison transport. That also sets up a Doffy Kaido interaction

[abstract pond]

I have the feeling that someone is gonna kill Kaido after Luffy defeats him.

[ancient vault]

That wasnt his dresm

[weak arrow]

you're right, it wasnt because it didnt exist

[sand sail]

It might not have existed, we don't know if it was a concept or not yet. Roger wasn't even the first person gathering the poneglyphs, the concept may have been there already

[earnest smelt]

In ohara there were lots of moons on that globus, but we never see them in the sky. There is probably enough landmass there to create the redline with perhaps?

Maybe kings moon just got exploded to create the red line?

[versed hamlet]

Would that go in line with sabo/ace/oden/whitebeards reactions? I guess the fact that oden and ace were the ones most JARRED by that declaration makes the most sense. I agree with you actually

[ancient vault]

It wouldnt because what Roger did was related to what he had seen on Laugh Tale

[robust sierra]

how long has it been since Rogers death 22 or 24 years?

[ancient vault]

24 years

[robust sierra]

this pretty much has to happen

[ancient vault]

theres a timeline pinned

[jade moon]

Probably his deathwish to luffy would be “take care of yamato”

[plucky kiln]

on what healthy father-daughter relationship signs is this speculation based off lol

the one where he fights her to death ?

or perhaps the one where he leaves her starving in a prison ?

[heady parrot]

either kaido dies or he submits to luffy after luffy defeats him, realizing luffy truly is joyboy. it’d be cool to see the emperors bow to luffy as the king of pirates. it’d add a lot of weight to that title if he truly ruled over every pirate even without really wanting to, i could see them just choosing to follow luffy.

[plucky kiln]

bro I ..yesYES

Luffy probably wouldn't give a fuck

and they don't have to bow. it doesn't fit their type. although this sudden development would be cool to watch since it would be so impactful

but I guess its enough to team up against a common enemy

I mean when Big Mom finds out that Sanji made her cake she would probably instantly switch sides lol

[heady parrot]

maybe more of a metaphorical bow than literal. like the emperors plus luffy teaming up against the true enemy, the celestial dragons.

[plucky kiln]

yes.

[heady parrot]

i could see kaido, big mom, and shanks (if he lives that long) aiding luffy in the final fight. assuming blackbeard stays an antagonist no matter what.

[plucky kiln]

So since you seem so open minded. what do you think of this ?

Blackbeards kill shanks
Blackbeard rises to the greatest rival of luffy.
Blackbeard vs Luffy. extremely Intense fight over the throne.
Luffy beats blackbeard. blackbeard admits defeat. luffy is swallowing up his sadness and pride and as a man he forgives blackbeard

Both team up against their common enemy. The celestial dragons. thus another storm of D. is formed

not my theory but a friends

[heady parrot]

i wouldn’t mind this as long as BB gets a really humanizing backstory that also helps us hate the Celestial Dragons that much more.

it’d be a good way for a lot of the pain in the world to eventually circle back around to that single cause

[plucky kiln]

I don't even think BB needs something like a sad backstory or whatever to reason his character right now.

But I like what you mean about the celestial dragons. They are crazy beings and oda did a lot to make us hate them

But I don't think that One Piece will contain the extermination or complete end of the CD's

There has to be a reason. Garp and Roger protected the celestial dragons. I mean of course garp is a cool person and stands for justice. but he is aware of the cruelty and injustice of the CD's. H eknows a world without them would be better. but why are they still there. why is dragon the only one heading against them. the former roger pirates also didn't do a thing. rayleigh just chills his life, and he knows everything.

Maybe the government isn't the way we think they are. or in another words, as always there is way too much we can look forward to learn about the world

[robust sierra]

if I had to guess, Rayleigh knows that the time to beat the celestial dragons hasn't arrived, which ties to the concept of "the person roger is waiting for" who will turn the world upside down

[plucky kiln]

yeah. but then there is the "why luffy" why waiting so many centuries.

[robust sierra]

if it was information that could be weaponized immediately, roger wouldn't had to have waited. all he did was encourage pirates to get to laugh talr to spite the government

[robust sierra]

divine timing/prophecy or it could be tied to tokis prophecy

I have another theory that the nine shadows could be the supernova from the worst generation too

[plucky kiln]

I hope the answer will be more than that. I mean What exactly made the government so powerful that in 700 years people could not change anything.
and what could have happened in 100 years, which is also A LOT, that it has to have been erased

[robust sierra]

since if it was 9 shadows it can't be the 10 straw hats

but there are 11 super Nova one of them being drake whose a marine and Bonney who seems to be a royal doing her own thing

they will become catalysts for the "dawn" or new era

[muted ember]

There's 11 Supernova I think

Oh lol

[plucky kiln]

12 I guess

[muted ember]

12 is Worst Generation, Blackbeard not a Supernova

[plucky kiln]

Luffy
Kidd
Law
Zoro
Kira
Hawkins
Bonney
Urouge
Apoo
Drake
Blackbeard

[plucky kiln]

Oh there is a difference ? lol didn't know that. okay this makes sense

[muted ember]

Supernova have over 100M bounties before the New World, Blackbeard never had a bounty until after Marineford

[ancient vault]

Yeah there is. Its simply just because blackbeard is old and not a rookie

[plucky kiln]

So who are the 9 Akazaya meant to be ?

Saviours of Wano ?
Saviours of the World ?

[muted ember]

I think it's specific to Wano

[visual merlin]

they're the scabbards

[plucky kiln]

well since kanjuro can be excluded, we have the theory that they werent they 9

[robust sierra]

yeah kanjuro is a traitor so it's really 8

meaning tokis prophecy wasn't about those guys, but could be a different 9

[plucky kiln]

Luffy, Law, Kidd, Drake, Yamato, Zoro, Kira, Momonosuke, Hyori ?

[ancient vault]

toki probably meant the scabbards but I wouldnt exclude the prophecy having a deeper meaning

[ancient vault]

she was just speaking gibberish. Its not an actual prophecy.

[muted ember]

I think it's the Straw Hats excluding Luffy

[ancient vault]

As far as we know she wasnt able to look into the future

[robust sierra]

I highly doubt it especially since yamatos probably joining

[plucky kiln]

But if she was talking about the Saviours of wano it would be kinda unfair to give the straw hats the thanks lol

[ancient vault]

[muted ember]

Straw Hats get the credit in every arc tho

[proud tree]

Is this a secret deal between Garp and Rayleigh? That Garp will always cover up for rayleigh? (Chapter 501

He wants to keep Sengoku from it, because Sengoku would try to catch him

[amber oar]

Maybe not as much of a secret deal, as Garp understanding he's just an old, retired pirate that won't cause any harm and whose attempt of capture will bring far more collateral damage

[ancient vault]

Might also be out of respect to Roger

[ancient vault]

The next page is also directly this

The question is just why hasnt anyone attacked Rayleigh now. I would understand if Sengoku was still the fleet admiral but like Akainu is a pirate-hating marine. It would be more in character for him to seize Rayleigh.

[proud tree]

btw the 2 legends he is talking about here are... R ayleigh and Whitebeard?

[ancient vault]

Yes

[proud tree]

indicating that Rayleigh is a comparable threat to Whitebeard?

[plucky kiln]

maybe rayleigh went on a journey after akainu became fleet admiral and now he is swimming around the world

[ancient vault]

No. But hes a threat that would need many marines. At least thats what Garp is saying

[ancient vault]

he was on the island when Luffy came back. I doubt he left

[proud tree]

he puts them both on the same "legend" tier tho

[plucky kiln]

They both are counted as "legends". And I would put them in the same strength class, although I'm sure that whitebeard was stronger.
But you know there is a reason rayleigh isn't just knows has "the pirate kings right hand" but as the "Dark King Rayleigh"

[grizzled fog]

That’s very vague though. They are both legendary pirates, that applies to a lot of people

[ancient vault]

2 legends dont mean theyre equal

[proud tree]

Rayleigh could become a real threat if he became captain of his own crew ... keeping him in an open air prison like Sabaody may be the only option left for the marines

[ancient vault]

Sabaody aint an open air prison. Rayleigh walks out that thing whenever he wants

[grizzled fog]

They don’t keep him there, they just stay away from him. He’s not much of a threat to them, he doesn’t do anything

[muted ember]

He goes missing on the island from time to time he's not always in the same place and the Marines probably have bigger issues when he's not causing problems

[amber oar]

don't powerscale language please, legend isn't a power tier

[cyan berry]

Garp isn't keen on sacrificing dozens of foot soldiers to capture one man who isn't causing much trouble anymore

[ancient vault]

wdym

[sterile hound]

if he starts training again maybe sure at best you can put him on the same level as Kizaru atm and if Rayleigh enters the pirate scene again its gonna be a high threat for the Marines

[amber oar]

answering to random characters guy

[plucky kiln]

Rayleigh, Crocus, Shanks, Buggy, Inu, Neko and technically momo and hyori lol are those former Roger Pirates we are aware of

I wonder if Gabban or other individuals are also still alive and around the world somewhere "waiting"

[ancient vault]

[abstract pond]

Kaido such a softy on the inside. Maybe he was Luffy's mother. Does he know Ivankov?

[ancient vault]

i'd lowdiff u fr

[ancient vault]

Especially one who almost sold himself

[cyan berry]

Exactly lol

[muted ember]

A lot of ppl think Gaban is the guy who was talking to Crocus

[cyan berry]

Rayleigh is no longer the Dark King

[ancient vault]

bro got shined by kizaru

[amber oar]

characterscaling? You show your ß, I raise my ñ

[cyan berry]

Hes just the man that runs a coating shop on Sabaody

[ancient vault]

u forgot my ö

[amber oar]

¿

ok, let's stop it.

[proud tree]

sure? Shakky said tho that he would not leave...

[grizzled fog]

He literally walks out of Sabaody later to find luffy

[ancient vault]

we literally saw him leave

[amber oar]

"he wouldn't leave sabaody" just means he likes hanging around and doesn't go out much

[amber oar]

not true. He swims

[ancient vault]

I think its someone from brook

[amber oar]

colored manga gave him Shiki's color theme, but that guy has like 1/4 of Shiki's hair and the wheel is nowhere to be seen

[ancient vault]

shiki is also irrelevant

[sterile hound]

probably the worst character Oda honestly wrote

[ancient vault]

I honestly think it might be yorki

It must be someone that knows at least one of the strawhats

Since the entire coverpage is about the newpaper that is on the table to the left here

[sturdy hawk]

Wdym he is dope

I dont think yorki has long hair

[muted ember]

Could be but it would be weird bc it means that person broke their promise to Laboon

[sterile hound]

i mean like the Impel Down Escape is cool , and the fight with Garp & Sengoku is cool too , but other than that he doesn’t really do anything at all

[sturdy hawk]

I mean we haven't seen much of him in the manga but why would that make him the worst character

[sterile hound]

i should’ve added context i mean by like the worst top tier pirate

[cyan berry]

Again

We've seen next to nothing about to him

But everything we've seen paints him to be an incredible impressive pirate

Dude escaped Impel Down on his own

[sterile hound]

and that is the problem

[sturdy hawk]

Ah well, I still kind of disagree since his fruit is really powerful, we just dont know much about his fighting skills in the manga. Maybe we will see that in Rocks backstory, hopefully we have enough there

[sterile hound]

i’m not saying Shiki is weak i feel like his actual character is weak

[amber oar]

hair can grow. But I don't fancy the idea of Yorki because that means he met Laboon before Brook

[sturdy hawk]

Would be gray tho

[ancient vault]

Yh bro hair doesnt grow

[sturdy hawk]

Point out a one piece character whose hair grew only in lenght and not in color in 45 years

[ancient vault]

Brook

[sturdy hawk]

Already had long hair

[ancient vault]

Also yasuei kept his hair color

Hair naturally grows anyways so that argument is dead beat. And we‘ve seen old characters that kept their haircolor

[pure raven]

Aye, can anyone get me panels of BM saying she was going to anihilate Yonko?

[sturdy hawk]

https://official-ongoing-2.gamindustri.us/manga/One-Piece/0847-015.png

Chapter 847 if you are interested

Unless this isnt what you mean

@pure raven

[pure raven]

My G. Ty so much

[grand walrus]

this is a really great manga page to focus on, Seems like pretty clear evidence that the giants at elbaf are extremely powerful

not to mention that one of big mom and kaidos most impressive moves is a giant tribe move

[sturdy hawk]

I mean tbf she might be exaggerating, but yea they are extremely strong

[grand walrus]

yeah that's a fair point, she does hold the giants in high regard due to her own childhood so she could be a little blinded

However, the tontatta were pretty strong. the minks even more so (capable of defeating top tier characters as a city) and the samurai are close to yonkou crew tier, so based on standard shonen dramatic hype, the giants should be stronger than the samurai

[sturdy hawk]

Its not just her holding them in high regard, but also her being pissed at lola

[grand walrus]

I do think we can expect the people of elbaf as a whole to be stronger than the people of wano

I don;t know if they will have 1 guy as strong or as interesting as oden, however

[sturdy hawk]

Yea they are extremely strong especially if they are in an army. Hajrudin the giant has the best physical strenght feat in the series

[grand walrus]

giants have been, on the whole, a letdown in one piece so far. the giants have all been cool, but none of them brought any game-changing strength. I feel oda has used giants as a tool to show how strong other characters are (in marineford, when doffy ripped off oars juniors leg, and how white beard beat up a bunch of giants, and then hajrudin getting beat in dressrosa, and now the numbers getting low diffed by a bunch of people) I am looking forward to seeing a giant who can stand toe to toe with anyone

[sturdy hawk]

https://official-ongoing-2.gamindustri.us/manga/One-Piece/0770-010.png
https://official-ongoing-2.gamindustri.us/manga/One-Piece/0770-011.png
https://official-ongoing-2.gamindustri.us/manga/One-Piece/0770-012.png
https://official-ongoing-2.gamindustri.us/manga/One-Piece/0770-013.png

10k tons are a lot to punch away

[grand walrus]

I agree that they're strong, but I want to see someone in the top tier

[ancient vault]

And still fodder

[sturdy hawk]

[ancient vault]

Krup is not wrong. I dont remember any giant having as he stated "game changing strength". I mean he assumes sth equal to a yonko commander at least. Not wrong but do we need giants like these? Who knows

[sturdy hawk]

No need for devil's advocate, i understood first time around

[sand sail]

"game changing strength" is a terrible way to put it. This is more a convo for another manga channel though, not really much theory there

[ancient vault]

i was just adding. Idk if we need such giants

Just saw the manga page u were talking about

Maybe we do so BMs claim doesnt look like a joke

[sturdy hawk]

Well again its one of the most impressive physical feats we have seen- yonko included- so it would make sense with what big mom is saying

[visual merlin]

well BM's claim makes enough sense still

if 1 giant can take out 100 people, and thats a low estimation, imagine what 100, or 1000 giants could do to an army

[sturdy hawk]

I doubt there exist 100 giants lol

[visual merlin]

I mean isn't the implication there's an army?

[grizzled fog]

? There’s probably hundreds at least

[visual merlin]

well, small army maybe

[sand sail]

Why wouldn't there be hundreds or thousands of giants out there?

[visual merlin]

its not like they're going extinct

[grizzled fog]

We’ve probably seen around 10 outside of elbaf already

[pure raven]

There is no indication whatsoever of the number of giants around the world

Saul said there are tribes other than elbaph so the overall number of giants is indefinite

There is no sign of racial cleansing or genocide of giants like lunaria too

I would speculate there are at least a thousand giants in there

[vestal orbit]

we've got whatever the yeti cool brothers are as well

[pure raven]

Ancient giants, normal giants, yeti cool brother type giants, they all fall under the category of giants

[sturdy hawk]

Im referring to elbaf giants

[pure raven]

You cant say "I doubt there exist 100 giants lol" and it turns out you're only referring to elbaph giants

Even more, we dont know the size of elbaph and its the biggest giant territory so there are probably at least 200

[sand sail]

That doesn't really help tho, no reason to think there aren't that many giants in Elbaf either

[pure raven]

Just a speculation

[proud tree]

Jaguar D Saul mentions how he thinks of Elbaph as a land of "savages" .... Could be because they have extremely warrior based society

[proud tree]

I hope the explanation for that is that all the strong stay at Elbaph and only the weak giants travel outside

[sturdy hawk]

I mean from the bm flashback it definitely felt like it was a small group

[sand sail]

It was one village

[sturdy hawk]

If anything we know the opposite tho, due to beardfall being well renowned for his strenght

And I wouldn't count losing to devil fruits the same as being weak

[pure raven]

Nah lol there are multiple villages and multiple cultures why would you assume that. So everyone not strong enough to be a viking was kicked out? What the hell are you on

[proud tree]

he was aged well beyond his prime tho

[sturdy hawk]

You said only the weak ones travel outside

[proud tree]

the strong giants join the army of giants .. there has to be a reason why they are called "mightiest in the world"

[marble skiff]

Tbh
Giants have never held up to the hype

[proud tree]

those who dont want to join the "giant fighting force" like Hairudin, Jaguar D Soul, or the marine giants (they where all recruited by mother Caramel) traveled to the outside world to grow fighting experience ... the others join King Loki in the main army and stay home

[muted ember]

Hajrudin punched like a million pounds into the sky, maybe more

And he's a young giant, to elite Pirates they may seem weak but 1000 giants destroying almost every country in a war

[low swallow]

Would current Hajrudin have been able to stop BM back as a child in Elbaf

[ancient vault]

No lol

[mystic crown]

Not even the village elder stopped Big Mum

[low swallow]

I mean, but that's the thing he was an elder, old and way weaker than he once was

And this is not to say age means you automatically get weak in one piece, but it was kinda implied in this case

[mystic crown]

Village elder of giants is probably 300+ years old

[pure raven]

Have we ever seen a giant using haki?

Or a devil fruit

[zinc walrus]

Idk if he was a giant but that dude with the pointy head in dressrosa

[mystic crown]

Yes we seen giants use haki

[pure raven]

Where?

[mystic crown]

Im pretty sure Harudijn Used it on heavy dude in Dressrosa

[pastel summit]

nah he just punched really hard.

[heady parrot]

sanjuan wolf is a giant with a devil fruit

[heady parrot]

morley too

[pure raven]

Oh you’re right but I don’t think we’ve seen giants use haki yet

[wintry lake]

Fuckkk

With this new leak I may have a new theory about the wano’s ending

[junior cape]

hey, no leaks in the theory channel

[vestal orbit]

haven’t seen the spoilers but glad to hear my predictions are coming true

[sand sail]

Do NOT talk about anything from the new chapter here whatsoever

[acoustic crystal]

is it just me or does everyone think that the manga is getting shorter and shorted every chapter?

[sand sail]

They think that because there are lots of double spreads, but this isn't really the channel to talk about it

[sleek perch]

looking for a one piece guy with mic to tell my friend that it good

dm me

[abstract pond]

People in One Piece doesn't age like in real life. They retain most of their strength

[muted ember]

They still get much weaker as they age

[abstract pond]

Not really

[ancient vault]

Depends what age u guys talking about

I would generally say ppl in OP aside from maincast cause plot hit their prime around their 40s to 50s

[low swallow]

Did you finish my message, I noted this and in the case of that elbaf giant BM defeated, it was heavily implied they were long past their primes. And being an elder in their case is a position of respect not strength

[pure raven]

....

[abstract pond]

Yeah I finished it.
"O: I love me some old dudes! I feel like age adds a new sense of depth to characters, both male and female. One Piece has tons of really interesting old people! But in the real world, age tends bring people down to a weaker state… and I’ve always disliked how there are some young people out there who just can’t have a little respect for these aged individuals because of this. So with One Piece, I’ve brought to life one of my countless fantasies: which is for there to be super cool old people who’ve maintained their strength throughout the years."

Age doesn't mean much in One Piece compared to the real world. And "prime" is something that wouldn't be much different from when they are old.

[bitter mesa]

The answer for Zoro's lineage is on Tashigi's lineage.

[low swallow]

Except I'm not saying this is the case in one piece.
You are trying to stop me from generalizing the way age works in the real world into fiction
However, you have gone too far, you are also generalising for the one piece verse.

Not every old person in one piece is super strong, some of them do decline as noted by even the characters themselves.

[low swallow]

Just to show you that age actually does cause a decline in one piece, here are some of the strongest people we know acknowledging that people do decline in strength in the OP verse

And in the case of these particular giants in question, here's proof that they did decline due to age

I doubt "at his age, he will not survive these wounds" implies in any way that hhe retained most of his strength

[low swallow]

"People in One Piece don't age like in real life. They retain most of their strength", this is a false claim. Even though their decline in strength is much more delayed than in real life and it also varies from person to person, without a doubt, people in one piece do lose strength when they age past a certain point

[lapis panther]

I wouldn't say this is quite true. Dorry and Brogy are the first giants that we get to see and they are insanely strong. Much stronger than Luffy back then and he beat Crocodile not long after. Their "Hakoku" attack is incredibly destructive. I'd argue that they are actually more like 500m-700m each.

If not even stronger than that.

[abstract pond]

That's not what they are acknowledging.
Whitebeard words are more in the line of "eventually someone stronger or as strong will appear"
If they keep active like WB they retain strength. It's when they are inactive when they become weaker like Moria.
There is also a difference between strength and endurance.
And of course extremely old age affects but not like in the real world.

[abstract pond]

Is not a false claim. And WB is the prime example.

[low swallow]

I never said like in the real world.

ANd how is WB a prime example, he got weaker

Besides, this whole thing is about the giants. Do you think those giants got weaker or not?

[abstract pond]

He was sick and took the marines all they have to defeat him and it was Blackbeard who killed him in the end.

[lapis panther]

Imagine, they had 100m bounties even before inflation and Gold Roger and all that, fought for 100 years, 73,466 fights which should give them an incredible amount of fighting power when they have good gear. It wouldn't surprise me if Dorry and Brogy are actually some of the strongest fighters in all of One Piece once they get a good rest, time to focus, good gear.

[low swallow]

No one is arguing whether WB got weaker or not? This whole thing is about those giants. Do you think the giant BM killed got weaker due to age or not?

"But at his age, he will not survive those wounds" implies heavily that he got weaker

[lapis panther]

The sickness was weakening WB much more than his old age. He probably would've easily won the war if he was in good condition.

I mean, he couldn't even properly use Haki anymore. Imagine a CoC Yonko fighting without Haki, that's 20 times weaker or so.

[abstract pond]

Implies his endurance/healing not his strength.

Is like a small kid that falls from a height that any adukt would break some bones but the kid gets a scratch.

[low swallow]

You and I both know we aren't talking about a specific type of strength, but someone's overall strength, which includes multiple factors like endurance, power and whatever other stat you want to evaluate

And if you say no, then it doesn't change the meaning, do you think the giants BM killed had reduced endurance due to old age or not?

[abstract pond]

Looks like we don't because you mean one thing and I other.

[low swallow]

And if you say no, then it doesn't change the meaning, do you think the giants BM killed had reduced endurance due to old age or not?

[abstract pond]

Yes

[low swallow]

Good. End of story

[pure raven]

A thought just occurred to me, so, the 'sun god' Nika, was representative of bringing the dawn, laughter and happiness to people's lives and freeing slaves right? Well, it's possible the supernovas actually get their name from something to do with him I feel. Because if a star, or in this case a sun has enough mass it goes 'Supernova'. And a number of our supernovas (Luffy, Law, Drake and, to a lesser degree, Kidd) have been doing quite the bit of bringing the dawn to people's lives lately especially with what they have been doing in Wano. In terms of a suns death at the hands of a supernova though, perhaps this could be seen as some kind of farfetched hint at Imu actually being Nika, and the supernovas being the ones to bring about his end? Last part is pretty far fetched and doesn't make as much sense, but thought I would throw it out there.

[soft cloud]

https://www.opfanpage.com/2021/12/23/mindblowing-implications-behind-kings-real-name/
This theory is kind of interesting

[vivid forum]

Is king's name actually confirmed

[willow forum]

Well he said that was his name

[vivid forum]

afaik (I might be wrong on this) there's no official romanization out yet so there are a bunch of potential translations for his name which might not be that

[half bolt]

I think his name is Alber

[amber oar]

There was the Albanian connection someone posted a while ago

the whole theory was a bit bullshit, but I extract one solid thing, and is that Arbël is an Albanian name, that comes from the historical name of the tribe that would become Albanians. And the Albanian flag has a black eagle, reminiscent of King's wings

[weak arrow]

French official said they got the romanization from Oda

[amber oar]

how did the French write it?

[night jewel]

Alber

i think it was just said that all of them got the romanization directly from oda iirc, including the french

[weak arrow]

Lol was searching for the tweet and couldn’t find it and was gonna tag you arsal

[night jewel]

oh wasnt the french but yeah https://twitter.com/newworldartur/status/1473048688754843654?t=GUwp4CoefkdCgxDr_pPjNA&s=19

Artur - Library of Ohara (@newworldartur)

According to the official Portuguese translator for MangaPlus, the romanization of "Alber" was provided directly by Shueisha, making it the canon romanization of King's name until further notice

https://t.co/HzsQjHq142

Likes

841

Twitter · Dec 20, 2021, 9:52 PM

[ancient vault]

The King flashback was possibly around 33 years ago

No mustache Kaido 25 years ago

mustache kaido 23 years ago (lmao why did discord block this picture when i cut out moria)

[sand sail]

It couldn't have been after he got to Wano

He tells King he's starting a new pirate crew, he was an established pirate by the time he got to Wano

[ancient vault]

he wasnt in wano 33 years ago lol

He was in wano at least 26 years ago. Most likely 28 tho. By the fact that higurashi started copying odens image 28 years ago

[sand sail]

Oh my bad, thought that said 23 years lol

Yeh, it was probably a couple of years after God Valley

[ancient vault]

Should I post the timline i collected again?

[sand sail]

Yeh, I've not seen it

[ancient vault]

Wano timeline I came up with

- 38 years ago: God Valley Incident happened
- 38-33 years ago: Kaido was fighting around and being captured often most likely. Tho not confirmed its very unlikely he was captured for 5 years straight but rather this is the time where he started wars with enemies
- 33 years ago: The rocks pirates that survived god valley started forming their crew. Problem with that is we know Big Mom already had her crew established so its not exactly accurate for her.
- 28 years ago: Yamato and Momonuske are born
- 28 years ago: The old hag disguised as Sukiyaki Odens father allows Orochi to be the next shogun after his death.
--> this means at least 28 years ago the old hag was in wano manipulating Orochi
- 26 years ago: Oden meets Roger and drops of Toki
--> This is where we see the scabbards trying to tell oden about the situation and trying to get him to stay. So we know Kaido was already in Wano at least 26 years ago.
- 25 years ago: Oden returns to wano attacks Orochi gets stopped by Kaido and agrees to the deal
- at least 24 years ago: MADS disbanded based on the fact that Reiju was born 24 years ago and Judge stopped at that time
- 24 years ago: Roger dies
- 23 years ago: Kaido vs Moria in Ringo, we see King and queen, Moria steals Ryuma corpse and his sword Shusui
-20 years ago: Kaido vs Oden and Oden dies, we see a few numbers here, we see Yamato at the execution
- 18 years ago: Kaido defeats and kills all other daimyos that decided to rebell and fight against Kaido, Ushimaru Shimotsuki dies

[sand sail]

• 33 years ago: The rocks pirates that survived god valley started forming their crew. Problem with that is we know Big Mom already had her crew established so its not exactly accurate for her.

This is the only one not quite right, most of the Rocks crew already were captains, that was part of why they were a big deal

But otherwise, I can agree with this

[ancient vault]

true

[weak arrow]

What part indicated it was 18 years ago for the ushimaru stuff

[ancient vault]

So its more so they coming back and reforming their crews and making a comeback similar to the timeksip with luffy?

[weak arrow]

I may have missed that

[ancient vault]

It was in the manga I forgot who said it tho. Yasuei?

[weak arrow]

I assumed it was like, they fought after Oden execution, lost, Yamato started being a bad child after the execution, and they got locked up together

[ancient vault]

the 18 years were precisely mentioned. I think it was kawamatsu now thinking about it

[weak arrow]

I see. Thank you

[gloomy canyon]

It says OVER 5 years ago

I think the implication is that Kaido throws Yamato in the cave with Ushimaru very soon after Odens death

And the daimyo revolt was right after that as well

Kaido’s even still hurt

You think he’d still be in bandages 2 years after his injury?

The “over 5 years ago” is just a generalisation for what’s more likely 7 years

[chrome frigate]

o, an idea:
We've all heard that D stands for dreams, and I don't think that's wrong, but I've noticed some oddities about the Will of D, and I think it may also stand for death. Basically, my idea is that the people of D can make dreams come true, but for it to work, someone has to die for that dream. However, once someone dies for a dream, no matter when, a person of D can make it come true forever. and if a member of the D dies for something, it will come true no matter what.

I think this might be true for a few reasons. First, someone has died as part of the narrative of every strawhat, EXCEPT Luffy, whose backstory death, Sabo, was later proved to have been actually alive. Kuina for Zoro, Bell-mere for Nami, Banchina for Usopp, Sora for Sanji, Hiluluk for Chopper, Saul and Olvia for Robin, Tom for Franky, and Brook himself died for his own dream, as did his crew. This is astounding even if you see it as a mere storytelling choice, but the fact that Luffy is the exception is what makes it even more interesting. Because, for the first half of the story, Luffy was not on the path to his dream coming true. In fact, the culminating event of the Paradise part of the story is showing just how far away his dream really is, and that as he is, he cannot become the King of the Pirates. But then, at Marineford, Ace dies. He dies saying that his only regret is not being able to see Luffy accomplish his dream, which he believes in 100%. And after that, Luffy is finally on the right path. And of course, as a member of D, Luffy is the one who "gathers the dreams" of the Straw Hats to make them come true, as the lyrics of the first OP say.

Second, the frequent refrain that Roger and his like were "too early". I've seen this explained as simply that he was at his peak prior to the births of the two sovereigns, but there isn’t any evidence to suggest that Poseidon is born only every 800 years or a similar number that would mean the two sovereigns had not been born at all between the end of the Void Century and the present day. In fact, I’d argue that there’s no reason not to read the Neptunians saying “it’ll surely work this time” as at least suggesting the possibility that they had been born and failed to bring about the dawn before. Why would these attempts have failed? Surely, since countless people have died for the dream of a free world, any old D should be able to pick that up and make it happen according to this theory. But that wouldn’t be the case if what was actually Joyboy’s dream, the thing the One Piece is meant to bring about, is actually distinct from the dream of toppling the World Government, and Roger realized after reaching Laugh Tale that someone, preferably a D, needed to die to fulfill that dream in order to bring about the true dawn. And isn’t it so interesting that Luffy and Roger share the same dream?

Third, the iconic quote: “People’s dreams, the swell of an age, and inherited will: as long as people continue to pursue the meaning of freedom, these things shall not be stopped.” I think people often focus on the three things, but I am interested in why it is exactly that those things “shall not be stopped”. Why not? You can kill people and erase the memory that they ever existed. You can extinguish the light of an age. Everyone’s dreams don’t come true. I think what this statement is, is a key to understanding why the People of D exist. Those three things can’t be stopped because there is a weapon opposing their erosion: the D. An unstoppable clan that can change fate itself to make dreams come true means that, as long as a single person with the name D is alive, every single dream in the world has a chance. And if that’s true, then what happens when a D carries the dreams of countless people behind them? What unthinkable power is that, to use the dreams of those around you to change the world? I believe this is what’s meant by the phrase “D will bring about a storm”: the uncontrolled chaos that happens when the full power of dreams, paid for in blood, is unleashed on the world. A storm can water crops, but it can also tear a house from its foundations. And the bigger the dream, the more all-encompassing the vision, the further the D can push past the limits of reality itself to turn the world upside-down. No matter how logical and absolute the power of tyranny, it’s the sheer illogic of dreams that can forever oppose them.

Extra tidbits: 1. I think if this theory is true Kureha knows exactly what the Will of D is. She must have been astonished, then, when she said “So the Will of D still lives”, as she had just made the dream of the dead Hililuk come true years after his death just when a D arrived at Drum Kingdom. Tfw a rubber boy carries the power to change fate and you were just the instrument.
2. don’t think this trait is limited only to “good Ds”. In fact, it makes a lot of sense to me that people like Rocks and Blackbeard exist within the clan, who are selfish about their ability to change fate. Actually, I think that’s the terrifying thing about Rocks. His ambition was to be king of the world. If he succeeded, that means he’s Imu. and if he didn’t succeed, and Teach is carrying his will, the endgame might well be Teach trying to become king of the world. And since Rocks (probably) died for that, and Ace died for Luffy’s dream, that would make Luffy and Blackbeard perfect equals in their power to change fate. Truly a crossroads!
3.I think, in line with this theory, that it’s interesting that the Shandians, who guided the spirits of the dead with the sound of a bell, also practiced human sacrifice. Perhaps they preserved the knowledge that death was a necessary ingredient for bringing about dreams.

I'm long-winded, sorry for the big block of text. Just really wanted to get the little details in! Let me know what you guys think

[proud tree]

so you are saying ... Luffy will die to make the dreams of his crewmates come true? And Ace died to make Luffys dream come true?

[chrome frigate]

So, I'm saying that the people who died in the Straw Hats' pasts paid for their dreams, so Luffy can just make them come true now

but yes, Ace died to make Luffy's dream come true

[proud tree]

And is this theory in line with the "natural enemy of gods" qoute of Corazon?

[chrome frigate]

I hadn't thought of that! Honestly I think yes, because dreams are the dreams of people. A power that elevates the people over the power of fate itself certainly would qualify as a natural enemy of god

but I just pulled that out of my ass so ymmv

[proud tree]

So you are saying every dream has a price paid in blood? How does the inherited will fit into this?

that would be quite dark

[chrome frigate]

Every dream that comes true, yes. I'm working with the idea that inherited will is just the memory of the dead that keeps their dreams alive, ie a man dies when he is forgotten. So because the D exist as a guarantee that the dreams of the dead can come true, it would also be a guarantee that inherited will can't be stopped

[proud tree]

And how does Blackbeard and Rocks know about the true meaning of D? Roger also knew about the meaning of D (he wanted to tell Whitebeard before his death) ... is there a chance Garp and Dragon also know this?

[chrome frigate]

Hard to say about Rocks without more info, but I think Blackbeard absolutely knows. "People's dreams never die" is a bit on the nose, isn't it?

[proud tree]

Roger could also know ... his last words to Rayleigh where "I am not gonna die partner" .. very similar to Blackbeards first qoute

[pure raven]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/614286635592450058/924041928415248454/IMG_1744.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/614286635592450058/924041928725635102/D0E949B3-F773-4A6E-8CFC-EECD50671D8F.jpg

[chrome frigate]

This drives me insane because like...same thing with Oden! Why were they so certain they would live on, and that their will would come to pass? In the end, Oden's retainers were defeated. But who put their dreams on his back? Monkey D Luffy. They must have been sure that some power existed which guaranteed success

[pure raven]

Moria killing kaido?

[proud tree]

And laws dream is to find out more about the true meaning of D ... it passed on after Corazon death ... quite an inception.

[chrome frigate]

i also think that's why Blackbeard has to be the final enemy: the only person who could truly defeat the power of D is someone with the same power

ultimately the D will decide which dream becomes the future

[proud tree]

yeah imo its certain Oden is not a D ... still he was certain that his dream would not die .. maybe that is something not exclusive to the name of D. Also if this theory comes true arent the D quite invincible in a way?

[chrome frigate]

I think no. They can still die— in fact, the only way to be absolutely certain their dream will succeed is to die for it. So no individual D is invincible. But arguably, given infinite time, that power will always win. It seems to have taken 800 years, so just having the power doesn't mean it'll happen soon

[split glacier]

You don't need to be a D for your will to be continued

[chrome frigate]

yeah. i think the D are just something that takes advantage of inherited will, not the only way it can work

[proud tree]

so tldr of this theory: A D can turn dreams of the dead (paid in blood) into reality?

[chrome frigate]

yeah!

or "A D can make a dream come true as long as someone dies for it, but especially if a D died for it"

[proud tree]

So "Jaguar D Saul" died for Robins dream to find friends? Or him dying with the dream of Robin finding friends lead to Robin meeting friends?

[chrome frigate]

second one

[proud tree]

In your theory can a D can make his own dream true by killing himself? Or can he only turn others dreams into reality by dying/ other peoples deaths?

[ancient vault]

Not to sure but i think there was another line aside from kawamatsu as well but i just cant find it

[ancient vault]

Those bandages could simply be from fighting the daimyos

[chrome frigate]

I think Roger is the best example of this, so I have to assume it still works if you know what you're doing and even if you do it yourself. He chose to die then and there, and his dream is still coming true

He really said "I'm not gonna die, partner", and then he died, and twenty years later Rayleigh met Luffy and realized Roger was right all along

[sand sail]

That more ties into Hililuk's death, where he calls out that a person only dies when they're forgotten

Roger immortalized himself

[chrome frigate]

I think that's still true, I just think this aspect of the D may be a hidden power undergirding the very real power of becoming immortal through being remembered

[ancient vault]

Even if its 20 years instead of 18 tho that‘d be fine too. Not that big of a deal

[chrome frigate]

Honestly you could just say this is all Oda writing stakes into the series and my reading it as directly transactional goes against the ethos of the series, given that Sengoku told Law not to see Corazon's sacrifice for him that way and see it just as love given. But then, Sengoku did choose to say that, perhaps he was warning Law in his own way that even though he exists in a fatalistic system, the love people feel for each other is still very real

I won't be mad if this isn't true, but I think it goes a long way in explaining when and where people die in this series and what it means for them to sacrifice themselves

[ancient vault]

Is it just me or r u just saying words at this point

[chrome frigate]

it's just you, but also i'm really long-winded so i'm used to people shutting down this far in haha

[ancient vault]

Could u give me a TLDR of ur theory

[chrome frigate]

just scroll up, we've done that

[ancient vault]

Based

[proud tree]

tbh i think it is a cool theory ... Blackbeard was introduced as a D with focus on dreams... and he knows more about the D. But I would be interested how it plays into the natural enemy of gods part... since the D would be a clan of gods themselves if its true...

and who created the D Clan in the first place

[chrome frigate]

in a certain sense, yeah. But gods destined for tragedy, since they never live to see the worlds their deaths create, and ultimately are only as powerful as the dreams that they carry

poor Rouge just wanted her baby to be safe. And he was...for a while

[devout tapir]

guys u reckon coby goes to capture boa hancock sees this shit, and they both start fangirling and become best friends

[ancient vault]

Im so confused as to what the theory is

[proud tree]

The tldr he gave: A D can make a dream come true as long as someone dies for it, but especially if a D died for it

[ancient vault]

Why are we adding supernatural powers to a name now

[chrome frigate]

scroll up, i explained at frankly unreasonable length exactly why i suspect this

[proud tree]

but the only prove we for it is only the dead Ds (Roger, Jaguar D Saul, Rouge (?)) .. and inherited will is already a force in universe that makes everything more complicated/ muddies the waters .... for example Oden was not a D .. still confident in his will getting realized in the future

[proud tree]

can you elaborate on this ... I dont get it .. what was Rouges dream?

[chrome frigate]

yeah, it's not perfect. although I think it's interesting that Oden's vassals inherited his will but ultimately failed until Luffy showed up haha

[chrome frigate]

If I recall correctly, the only time we hear her speak is her wishing for Ace to live a happy life

[ancient vault]

I dont think your point of dismissing the fact that roger couldnt do it because poseidon wasnt born is a good one tbh. Noone said poseidon is born only every 800 years but that doesnt change the fact that Roger was still to early for his chance on doikg what he needed to do

[chrome frigate]

I don't dismiss it entirely, but I do think there's room for additional factors to be at play. Roger may have been too early, but if the sovereigns were born before Momo and Shirahoshi, then he would have also been "too late", right? That's why I think there may have been another factor in what made them too early

[ancient vault]

He cant be to late if he wasnt even born yet

Then he would still be to early for the next poseidon

I get your point with the comments of the seakings tho

[chrome frigate]

he would be too early with respect to the next and too late with respect to the previous

but yeah, that's a weak argument haha

[ancient vault]

But then I dont really agree with the notion that any D can do what luffy will fo. We dont even know what exactly the D.s are supposed to do

Is this sacrifice supposed to be a conscious thing in the OP-verse? And how do you make sense of that

[chrome frigate]

I think the way I satisfy my feelings on this is that even though any D can do what Luffy does, Luffy's compassion, investment in the idea of dreams over material wealth, and belief in the freedom to pursue one's dreams make him an ideal D for bringing dawn to the world. Any D could be Luffy, but it's taken a long time for one to be born in the right time and place to end up like him and be willing to do what he does. I find it fascinating that so many aspects of Luffy's character were shaped by his experiences, not his birth

even outside this theory, I believe the above is true. The D are special, but they can do anything with that power. What makes Luffy different is his inherent kindness and desire to spread his own joy to others

And his genuine willingness to die for that, every single day. Built different

I think most D have no idea this works, except those who know the true history. And that makes sense, since the ancient peoples believed in freedom— they wouldn't want to shackle a few people to the fate of the world, they'd want their superweapons to be free to choose their own path

and they would want this power to benefit not just the D, but anyone whose dreams the D encountered and took on, allowing for huge groups of people and entire countries to receive the benefits, as we've seen Luffy bring about long-dreamed of change in island after island

Drum Kingdom is actually the heart of this theory, as it shows everything I've been saying: Both Luffy and Blackbeard arrived and brought about the destruction of the old system by evicting Wapol, but Blackbeard did it in a way that was cruel and destabilized the kingdom while Luffy gathered the dreams of Dalton, Hiluluk, and Chopper and made them all come true

Equal power, vastly unequal outcomes. And of course, this is the arc where we learn about inherited will

[proud tree]

I guess the weird thing about the theory is it answers the question what D is with another question: who created the D and bestowed their supernatural powers? Are they just a natural force that exists since the beginning of time or where they created on purpose?

[chrome frigate]

Yup. And i think that's exactly the kind of question you should have to ask to explain something as big as the D— the same as how the devil fruits, the red line, or the ancient weapons were made

It's exciting to think the stakes could really be this high