manga-theories

[ancient vault]

Inheriting the will of someone else can happen without ever meeting a person

[split glacier]

Are you saying you can only inherit wills if you know the person?

[ancient vault]

And being the biological son of someoke doesnt mean you inherit their will either

[gentle escarp]

Don't surmise what you can't understand bruh

I was about about to explain more clearly for you but you went and surmised some bs that you thought I said

[ancient vault]

What r u on about
You completely misunderstood the concept of inherited will

[visual merlin]

I'd prefer you just respond to people

[ancient vault]

Then go on and explain.

My bad but I didnt see u typing

[split glacier]

I did and they ignore it multiple times. That's not my fault.

[ancient vault]

U literally say „read the link“ multiple times. If you post sth we assume u read ir and want to disguss it

[split glacier]

No, i responded to the guy and he kept asking the same question

[visual merlin]

right, you should still respond though, if people are actually ignoring your responses (assuming said responses aren't saying to read the link) then you can move on from the convo but its best everyone try to respond to the others in the conversation when discussing

[gentle escarp]

Listen.

The people who show that blood doesn't determine path are all people who have been in the lives of their fucking fathers

Yamato got to know kaidou. Didn't fuck with him and inherited the will of oden

Sabo got to know Outlook 3rd. Didnt fuck with him and inherited dragons will

These 2 embody opposite ideals to their parents

Luffy and ace whose parents weren't in their lives, did not inherit opposite wills to their parents. Ace became a pirate like roger. Luffy has the same dream of freedom as dragon. Ace also acted like roger on many occasions in his pirate career. He even went after the pk title

[ancient vault]

Anyways wasnt shanks born in one of the blues

[gentle escarp]

We have never seen a character who did not grow up in their fathers lives just to become the opposite to him that's never how oda has done it

Ace and luffy don't embody the opposite ideals to roger and dragon the way sabo and yamato do with their parents

Shanks isn't gonna be the opposite of rocks when he hardly knows about the guy

[ancient vault]

Lol how is ace different from shanks

Shanks is also a pirate like rocks (if we assume theyre related)

[gentle escarp]

Shanks is following an opposite path to rocks

[ancient vault]

Whos outlook 3rd btw

[gentle escarp]

Bro that's literally minor inference clearly his sabos father. How tf could you not infer that

Anyway point is. Shanks hates what bb is doing. He is very opposite to bb. He wants balance while bb the inheritor of rocks will wants chaos

Which means shanks is very much like sabo and yamato in that regard. However he never got to know rocks so him becoming the opposite to rocks makes no sense via inherited will

Shanks hair texture and colour aren't even the same as this guy

[ancient vault]

the color isnt canon. its fanmade

[gentle escarp]

The black and white still shows differ shading lmao

[ancient vault]

as far as i know. unless this is from a vivrecard

[gentle escarp]

The shading for rocks hair in the manga was black.

This doesn't necessarily mean he has black hair.

The shading for shanks hair was grey. This doesn't mean shanks has grey hair

But the fact that the shading of each their hairs was CLEARLY DIFFERENT. That means rocks didn't have red hair

And the gorosei would want the son of rocks eliminated. Yet they are here talking it up like their boys with shanks

Rocks D shanks doesn't even slap

[ancient vault]

idk queens hair is shaded black. Sanjis white and both got the same blonde hair.

And the WG couldnt find out about law having a D either.

Im not a fan of that theory anyways so I dont wanna really discuss this

I've just been playing devils advocate

[muted valley]

Btw what your talking about is "sin of the father" trope.

[gentle escarp]

Shanks is a yonko there doesn't really get much higher in terms exposure

[gentle escarp]

Umm...

Is that so I never could have guess

[ancient vault]

Being a yonko doesnt mean the world knows all ur secret. Also it has been said that he has few but very trusted subordinates

[gentle escarp]

So explain to me why shanks would hide that his rocks son

Shanks is a pirate. Clearly he doesn't care bout public image or whether people fear him

[ancient vault]

He has a public image. In fact his one is very important. He needs to keep the image of being a reasonable guy.
That was the only reason why he got to stop the war and talk with the Gorosei really

[gentle escarp]

I personally believe dragon had the best bet I've seen the theory from that chick

[ancient vault]

If he reveals hes xebecs son, he has unnecessary boundaries stopping him from all sorts of things. In fact he might suffer the same fate as ace

[gentle escarp]

Bro do you hear yourself. He is a damn yonko

[ancient vault]

Dragon is the most wanted man in the world yet the world knows nothing about him

[pure raven]

I think the reason he got to talk about the gorosei is because 1. he is a yonko and the government knows the havoc yonko can cause if provoked. 2. he is level headed and not prone to agitation or aggressiveness. and 3. he may know the true history through rayleigh or other roger pirates.

[ancient vault]

Dragon was 17 during the Rocks incident. Would be a bit weird but I havent seen the theory

[gentle escarp]

Garp takes 21 Yr old under his wing

Koby was 16 when he came under garp

[ancient vault]

Its really just 2 probably. I think 1) is more of a factor because him being a yonko actually favors them if he works together with them for certain things

[ancient vault]

Dragon is garps son

[pure raven]

thats true. I would attribute it to something like the warlord system except more under the books.

[gentle escarp]

You got evidence

[gentle escarp]

So helmepoo is your evidence

[gentle escarp]

That isn't evidence

[pure raven]

@gentle escarp

[ancient vault]

Yeah I was gonna post the vivrecard lol

[gentle escarp]

Yep that's pretty solid

But I still don't buy it

[ancient vault]

Btw Luffys and Dragons dreams arent the same. Dragons wants to save people. Luffy doesnt

[gentle escarp]

Dragons dream is freedom. Luffys dream is freedom. Both want to free the entire world

Same dream

[ancient vault]

No lol

Dragons dream is to free the world of oppression and rightful justice.
Luffys dream is to become the Pirate King and be the freest man on the sea (+ his additional unknown dream)

[gentle escarp]

There methods are different but their goal is still the same man

[muted valley]

Sin of the father is a common trope, where having a bad parent immediately relates it to you're evil.

Also that it would have made himself a serious target from WG through his life. That there is no good reason outside chaos as to why he would want to let everyone know about it after he got enough power as a saftey net.

[gentle escarp]

Pirate king isn't the dream. Its what he gains from being pk man

[ancient vault]

Its not the same. Luffy doesnt care about saving people. Hes not a hero. He saves when he wants to save not because he feels like thats his duty

[gentle escarp]

I just said the methods are different. And luffy doesn't care about saving people because if he didn't he wouldn't do it lmao and he has done it several fucking times end of story kan

[ancient vault]

Dragon on the other hand thinks thats his purpose in life. To free the people of oppression and bring rightful justice

[gentle escarp]

You really can't debate this man

[gentle escarp]

He was under roger. It wouldn't affect him. And you don't think people would mention that he looks like rocks

[ancient vault]

I cant because youre wrong lol. Theres no room to debate this.
The 2 dreams are different in their nature. Luffy didnt inherit Dragons will. He inherited Rogers.

Luffy nor Roger have ever felt like its their duty to save the people. And Fishman Island emphasized on that. If it wasnt for a friend being in danger Luffy wouldve ignored Fishman Island as long as they didnt bother him.

Dragon on the other hand wouldve seen the injustice and done sth whether he has friends there or not.

Additionally if one of his crewmates wants to help them Luffy will help too. But never has he ever said its his duty to save people

He made clear to Rayleigh he doesnt care about conquering and ruling meanwhile the Revolutionary Army conquers island after island declaring it a part of their system (obviously in good faith and to protect the people) but Luffy doesnt do this unless its for a friend he needs to help out

[ancient vault]

Who says he looks like him? Dragon doesnt look like Luffy at all for example. He looks more like Garp and also acts more like Garp

[muted valley]

Dude, you're wrong. Roger was never erased from history. Roger turned himself in also to save his crew. Rocks WAS erased from history, which we saw what they tried to do to Roger's possible kid, they'd go after Shanks if they knew.

Thats the whole sins of the father trope, as the child IS treated as responsible for the fathers actions.

Your confusing inherited will with that ontop of it, and neglecting many key aspects they have shown as to how viscious the WG is when they want a undesirable gone.

[gentle escarp]

You clear don't understand what different methods that produce same result. Dragon literally said luffys will would be able to Boost his cause and achieve what he is trying to achieve

Anyway regardless of whether the vivre card says that dragon was born 55 years ago.

1. Garp joined the navy at 22. He would have had dragon at 22. The editors note says that garp gave him the name dragon to associate him with the leader of the wg. How would garp even care or even be aware of enough just joining the navy to have a deep reason behind his sons name such as this.

2. Dragon never became a marine. Dragon wasn't a rev until he was in his mid 30s. It is confirmed he wasn't a marine as his origins are unknown. The marines are the public face of the wg. Dragon was an unknown figure to the public world.

[gentle escarp]

Yeah and luffy is garps grandson. Dragon likely isn't garps son

[ancient vault]

Because Luffys way of wanting to become Pirate King is crucial for Dragon in dismantling the WG

Luffy doesnt actively work against the WG but they keep putting themselves in his way of becoming Pirate King and Luffy will defeat them thats why he plays a crucial role in Dragons plan

[muted valley]

Luffy litterally goes with the flow, only intervening when it crosses his path and interest. Which has happened alot, but he doesn't choose the ultimate save the day plan andwant to be a hero as he only wants to save/help his friends and will make enemies and stop them if that goes down.

[ancient vault]

How would garp even care or even be aware of enough just joining the navy to have a deep reason behind his sons name such as this.

As much as Garp talks bullshit in his old him, hes not really stupid. He joined the marines to protect innocent lives and help people. Not because he wanted to obey to the WG ideals. In fact Garp never actually listened to the WG and he got very lucky with the fact that earning his status as the hero of the marines is protecting him from getting sent to Impel Down for disobeying.

Hes very similar in Luffy that he doesnt let others dictate him what to do

[gentle escarp]

Listen. Shanks isn't the son of rocks. It's just that simple

Wb wasn't referring to rocks when he mentioned the scar this was debunked

Shanks looks nothing remotely like rocks. And the manga has shown that neither their facial feature or hair protrusion or hair colour is the same.

You are assuming rocks had a child at the end of his life because roger did

Buggy has just about as much chance of being rocks son as shanks

[ancient vault]

Dragon never became a marine. Dragon wasn't a rev until he was in his mid 30s. It is confirmed he wasn't a marine as his origins are unknown. The marines are the public face of the wg. Dragon was an unknown figure to the public world.

Origin unknown doesnt actually confirm anything. All it does is tell us that Oda is refusing to tell us more

[gentle escarp]

Origin unknown confirms he wasn't a marine of course it fucking does

[muted valley]

It's actively stated he'd be killed if he wasn't a decorated hero. As well as how much shit he hampers, he dislikes the WG but hates people who terrorize normal civilians.

[gentle escarp]

His origins are unknown to the public no one knew where came from

The gandhi gorosei said the navy is the public face of the wg

This confirms he wasn't in the public face of the wg

[gentle escarp]

It has never been stated that he would be killed lol chill out

[muted valley]

You were the one stating it, but ALL I SAID was why it would be stupid to reveal one's lineage and the misconceptions on Sins of father and Inherited Will

[muted valley]

In Marineford it was, with Sengoku.

[gentle escarp]

Yeah cap

It was said that he would face the affects of his families crimes. Not be killed

You just added that in to make your argument look better

And I remember the scene clearly you really don't wanna debate this one

https://tenor.com/view/greys-anatomy-meredith-grey-you-dont-want-to-do-this-dont-do-this-ellen-pompeo-gif-23549419

[muted valley]

WG actively went and preformed infanticide after Roger died, Garp had Dragon, Luffy, Ace hes responsible for ontop of that the other rule breaking he gets away with, you're severely neglecting hoe horrific the WG actually is.

[ancient vault]

hes a D. too. Hes def getting executed for disobeying lol

[gentle escarp]

Dragon was never in the marines

This is confirmed by the information we have been given in the story

[muted valley]

So you're disingenuous

[ancient vault]

Origin unknown in the vivrecard means missing information ricehead

[gentle escarp]

Some idiots think he was an admiral lmao

[ancient vault]

The vivrecards are just for the reader

[gentle escarp]

This wasn't said in the vivre cards it was said in the damn manga

[surreal oriole]

Off subject here but I've been thinking on the inherited will stuff.. and knowing joyboy was a title couldn't it be that the joyboy is the one who had inherited the will of the entire AK. First roger and now luffy, making their will dwarf everybody elses

[ancient vault]

You mean this?

[muted valley]

Ty, it was clearly stated he has been a great asset to the Marines for public support woth his decorated record that keeps him out of trouble.

He litterally is a black sheep in the Navy that he'd been gone for all his crimes and rule breaking.

[gentle escarp]

The fodder marines hadn't even heard dragons full name before lmao

[ancient vault]

Yeah but none of us in here said Dragon was an admiral tho

[gentle escarp]

Did I say any of you thought that

[ancient vault]

Yeah sengoku said it before the TS as well

Well youre acting like it and brought it up

[gentle escarp]

When did I say anyone here thought that. When did i make these allegations

I said some idiots think he was an admiral. To emphasise how ridiculous this dragon being a marine shit is

[muted valley]

You keep bringing other things up Rice that don't revolve around what we're saying and treating it as apart of our statements as your rebuttal.

[gentle escarp]

In episode 0 which is 28 years before the current story

[muted valley]

Yup, top that off with how viscious the WG is to threats and its easy to see what'd happen.

[ancient vault]

Mhm?

[gentle escarp]

No one in the public knew dragon was the son of garp even the marines didn't know.

If the son of garp entered the marines this would be a very know fact

The fodder had never heard his full name before

Rocks ambition was to be KOW. This is a fact.

He did not go into God valley thinking he would lose. This is a fact.

Why tf would he choose to have a son and leave said son on his ship where they killed each other

Roger chose to have a son so late because he was going to die

While rocks had plans to ascend to higher status therefore he did not think he was going to die. So what would the purpose of said 1 Yr old baby be

[ancient vault]

I dont think anyone here really believes Shanks i Xebecs son. At least not me. I was just playing devils advocate for the fun of it.

Anyways Im also rather a believer of Shanks might being a Celestial Dragons child

[muted valley]

I'd place more money on Shanks as a World noble

If we're using God Vally, it's explain Shanks and his pull with WG and his choices for being kinda a anti doffy

I'd say dragon is alot more likley as Rocks son, adopted by Garp.

Since Garp doesn't believe in sins of father

And it'd explain Roger n Garp with ace

But Shanks birth was after God Vally. So it'd be a thing for Shanks to be Rocks son.

Dragon would be 15 at God valley.

We did see Drake left his father's crew as a young teen.

[gentle escarp]

Dragon would actually be 17

[gentle escarp]

Bro shanks being the son of xebec wouldn't explain anything for garp lmao just stop

Why would garp allow roger to turn rocks kid into a pirate after seeing how he turned out

Rocks isn't roger. Not everyone has kids just before they get slept

[ancient vault]

did you even read his message sigh

Hes agreeing with you. He thinks Dragon is Rocks son

[gentle escarp]

Rocks and dragons goals are also opposite

Dragon intends to take down the celestials to bring freedom to everyone. The epitome of selflessness

Oh lmao

While rocks wanted to take them down to be KOW. A very selfish dream

[surreal oriole]

Isn't there a pretty decent theory that shanks is the love child of rocks and a CD? Or am I remembering wrong

[modest skiff]

I still think Dragon is related to Xebec through Garp’s wife, not directly Xebec’s son

[gentle escarp]

No that theory is not good

[surreal oriole]

Ah okay

[gentle escarp]

Why would rocks go killing celestials if his wife was among them

[modest skiff]

Garp and Dragon both have the appearance of responding to a tragedy in different ways

[gentle escarp]

If anyone's wife is a celestial its garp

Garp has connections to the celestials that would allow him to give sterry a chance at becoming one

A vice admiral no matter how strong wouldn't have links like that

[surreal oriole]

Idk because she turned coat maybe. Or They tried to split them up in some way so he decided to kill the all idk tho hard too say. I get the feeling rocks history is gonna be rather gray

[gentle escarp]

His wife is likely among them

[muted valley]

I think it might be BB as the son too, since his age is right at the 40 year God valley incident. But it'd not surprise me if there was more than 1 relative of rocks alive. Like nephew and son, ect..

[ancient vault]

You act like Garp would ever allow sterry to turn into a CD

[gentle escarp]

It's about what sterry knows though

[gentle escarp]

Bb is an inheritance of will. Oda never goes down that line

Oda never makes a son directly inherit the path of his father.

Thats why momo will become shogun and not join the crew

[ancient vault]

The god valley incident wa 38 not 40 years ago

[leaden slate]

Law can attach someone else's arm to Shanks snd it will be as good as new

[muted valley]

Garp was a well established Marine who was at Marijoise who has been around for a long time. He is known to deny becoming an admirl. It's not silly to think Garp has sway with the WG and nobles.

[muted valley]

It was? I thought it was 4X years prior

[ancient vault]

nope was 38. The crew was most likely form 4X prior

[gentle escarp]

The nobles literally said they would eliminate garp if he wasn't the hero of the marines

[muted valley]

Welp gotta think on things now

[gentle escarp]

I mean sengoku said the nobles would eliminate him

[pure raven]

its no big deal, he has another arm

[gentle escarp]

The crew definitely wasn't around that long if they were killing each other

2-4 tops

[leaden slate]

he can duel with mihawk then

[muted ember]

Would be cool

[modest skiff]

My theory: Xebec's sister is Garp's wife and Dragon's mother. She was killed in a situation that was both the fault of CDs and pirates. This led to Garp having his unwavering belief that pirates must be contained/arrested/thwarted. This also led to Xebec deciding to destroy the CDs entirely and Dragon taking a similar perspective, that ultimately the CDs are the reason Dragon's mother was killed. I think this is the reason Garp will 100% not listen to CDs and also why he is given a bit of a pass. He is not only a hero but also was clearly wronged by the CDs. I think it is a situation where both parties are at fault but Xebec/Dragon decided it was mostly the CDs.

[ancient vault]

5 years

[leaden slate]

and having two surely make him a bit more stronger i suppose

[gentle escarp]

Xebecs sister yknow

[ancient vault]

I believe they were created 43 years ago

[pure raven]

finally gets to duel shanks again just to get rolled

[gentle escarp]

Never heard that one before

[muted valley]

Let's wait to see the Fanfiction with Shanks with WhiteBeards arm. I pray

[gentle escarp]

I have a theory that xebec married a person who came to the future with toki

In other words his wife is from the void like toki

Chill bro. No need

[leaden slate]

meant no offense

deleted just in case

[gentle escarp]

Damn you made him deleted it

Yeah I think toki was sent to the future along with one other person

[leaden slate]

who else is missing from past wano

[muted valley]

My thought I'd kinda close? But different relations, also that God Vally was more a incident that was mostly opertunist than anything. As we can infer God Vally was a Lunarian island, CDs would want slaves(especially ones who were strong and ones who they could dominate over and demean for being gods) so they went there to round em up, while Rocks went to wipe out the CDs and also get Lunarians, join or die. That Xebec has some previous will from history from JBs time. Ect..

[gentle escarp]

I do

[leaden slate]

Garps wife is irrelevant

[modest skiff]

Why is Garp’s wife irrelevant?

We can only assume a woman was involved in Dragon being born lol

[gentle escarp]

I highly doubt garp married before joining the navy

[modest skiff]

I’m making an assumption that Garp didn’t lay an egg

[leaden slate]

irrelevant to story

just another old hag

[gentle escarp]

Belo Betty is the actual child of garp

[modest skiff]

Is Katakuri’s mother irrelevant to the story?

[gentle escarp]

Nah she's big mom

I know that question was obvious I just wanted to troll

[muted valley]

I don't believe his wife is really relevant, if anything I can see Garps daughter more important.(if luffy mom). But we see the OP is about fathers more so than mom's.

I more or less wonder if Garp is Kongs son and that explains why he was anti pirate.

[modest skiff]

That’s my point. Silly to dismiss mothers

[leaden slate]

Since the ancient times women have caused war

it will be a cliche

[vivid forum]

wait, why do we think luffy's mom was garp's daughter now?

[ancient vault]

Idk. They dont wanna accept that Dragon is Garps son

[vivid forum]

all right then

[leaden slate]

dragon maybe a bastard

[ancient vault]

In Dragon's vivre card. It says "Born as Garp's son"

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/477571830941614080/905976316849971240/unknown.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/477571830941614080/905976207294730300/unknown.png

[modest skiff]

We don’t really have any information other than the ways Garp, Dragon and Xebec viewed the CDs. Everything else is just wild guesses, so it’s hard to be confident in anything. But it also means nothing is really disqualified either

[ancient vault]

The vivre card even says Dragon is Garps son tho

[modest skiff]

Right, and that’s why I tried to find a way Dragon and Garp would both hate the CDs for the same reason

So that’s where I came up with Garp’s wife having a tragic end related to the CDs

[leaden slate]

Dragon is abit from the black side

[modest skiff]

Black side?

[leaden slate]

uk

in comparison

[modest skiff]

I don’t understand what you are saying

[pure raven]

no dragon is white

[leaden slate]

in manga

In anime he is not

[muted valley]

"Born as Garps son" doesn't mean it is garps bio son. It's a very wierd way to outright say something, because a person can be Born as the son of someone other than their real father. Like Ace was born as Garps grandson.

[amber oar]

of for a moment I read "he is hot" lmao

Manga color scheme prevails though

[leaden slate]

Garps wife maybe from moon or some species where men paint faces

[amber oar]

Nobody has ever, ever said Ace was "born as Garp's grandson"

[leaden slate]

why u all wanna disown dragon

[ancient vault]

Born as someones son means ur born as their son. Its fairly simple lol.

Also that translation wasnt accurate most likely

[modest skiff]

Theories that directly contradict vivre cards are hard to justify

[ancient vault]

Important is. Garps name next to "son" in dragons vivrecard

[amber oar]

"Born as Garp's son" is as straight up as it can be.

Why so many people insist on spining the meaning of words to adjust them to what they want them to mean. Language is far more simple and direct than they make it to be. Is the educational system that teaches them "you can interpret texts any way you like"? Sorry for the mini rant but discussing with people like those is a dead end.

Bonus points to native English speakers who believe the same nuances in their language apply to every other language

[split glacier]

Should make a channel called Dragon is Garp's biological son and just have that

[gentle escarp]

Born as garps son lmao. This arc will prove dragon is the son of rocks

Kaidous fb will reveal rocks appearance that shit will comfirm

When his just a darker dragon people will come back saying sorry

[split glacier]

What y'all thinking on Uranus? You think it's Momo? You think it's that big ass egg Roger had and that's how all the weather stuff happened when he got into fights (Shiki), you think that's what Dragon has "control" over now?

[modest skiff]

Hope you don't mind if i just copy paste my Uranus theory here:

I think Uranus is the bird on the Kozuki flag. I think Uranus is a phoenix which can rebirth. I think the egg on Roger’s ship was not Uranus but instead Uranus’s offspring. Unlike standard phoenix mythology, I don’t think Uranus turns itself into an egg but rather lays an egg and eventually tends to it. I think that when Uranus is close to death, they wrap their wings around the egg and do something which essentially sparks it to life, extinguishing their own life. A process similar to Enma draining Zoro’s haki/life-force. I think that when Uranus realizes the egg is getting close to being done, Uranus basically wraps the egg with itself, activates some kinda ending process and hatches the egg.

I think Uranus has control over all aspects of weather, up to and including magnetism. I think that Uranus was used in specific instances to create unique weather situations that ended up protecting various kingdoms. I think Wano’s extremely unique ability to uptake water and use it as a waterfall, while also being surrounded by a bunch of whirlpools, is all the doing of Uranus.

I think that Momo is able to control both Uranus and Zunesha and perhaps other creatures. I think it has something to do with VOAT and I think it is possible Luffy/Roger could have the same capability in some lesser way that doesn't work. I think it is possible that there is some other component to VOAT that allows people to communicate with.

The following section is total shot in the dark bullshit that I think is just a fun experiment: I think Uranus defended Roger’s crew from Shiki’s fleet. But I don’t think Uranus was particularly loyal to Roger at all. I think Uranus was kind of sort of invested in Roger being alive. How did that happen? I think that somewhere on Roger’s adventures around the world, he happened upon the nest of Uranus. I think that Uranus left the nest at some point to go grab some food or something, some monster or pirate or something tried to raid the nest, Roger noticed and said “hey stop messing with that bird’s nest!” and conveyed the emotions/thoughts of defending this egg. I think Uranus was like “OH CRAP, MY NEST, AND WAIT, WHO THE HELL IS THIS GUY WHO I HEAR?? IS THAT MY MASTER??”, so then Uranus quickly flew back to defend her nest. When she got there, Roger had beat the living shit out of someone who was messing with the nest. But Uranus could also tell that Roger wasn’t “the one”, Roger could just hear Uranus/Egg due to VOAT. But Uranus also is an asshole and didn’t actually like Roger that much, but they let Roger look after their egg. So Uranus would stay in the clouds and basically follow Roger around while Roger looked over the egg. Since Uranus was old and shitty (nearing the point of the egg hatching, so Uranus is like 900 years old and getting near end of life), Uranus was comfortable with Roger watching over the egg because he was clearly insanely buff and powerful.

So Uranus kind of liked Roger and appreciated Roger, but Uranus knew that Roger was not Uranus’s (actual) master. I think that the Kozuki clan has control over Zunesha and Uranus and perhaps someone else. I think that Uranus is like other birds that means it is a huge asshole to anyone other than their master. So when Roger encountered Shiki, Uranus was like “lol you dummy, here, I’ll protect my egg, but I am doing the MINIMUM necessary to move this along. I am going to tell Roger that I am helping a little but he needs to get his ass out of here. He is NOT my master...he just watches my baby”.

So I think Uranus is ultimately going to be controlled by Momo the same way that Zunesha is. I think the egg is future Uranus, not current Uranus. Its possible the egg already hatched and waiting for Momo to call for them.

Its more than a little baseless/conjecture, but all we know is Uranus's name, so its hard to really have any evidence or credibility lol >_<

[errant rune]

This may be "Looking too much into it" but there seems to be some connection to the story
-People morphing into Animals
-Sun and Moon connections
-Three headed dog who never sleeps(Might be Blackbeard)
-Songs of Heroes
Also if King's name is confirmed to be Arber, it supports this connection more, as "Arber" is an ancient Albanian/illyrian word used for Albanians. It means "People with Wings who live on Mountains"
Also Albania itself means (White Mountain/Alp) which could connect to the Red Line(red mountain)
It is also said (Myth) that a tribe lived Under Mount Tomor (Fishmen?😅)

[surreal oriole]

I really like this theory.. gonna blow my mind If you got it right

[acoustic helm]

Zoro might belong to shimotsuki who lived outside wano long before kozaburu left

[amber oar]

Arber" is an ancient Albanian/illyrian word used for Albanians. It means "People with Wings who live on Mountains"

huh, here it says it means farmer https://www.thenamemeaning.com/arber/

"People with Wings who live on Mountains" sounded too specific to not be made up lol

[ancient vault]

who edited the wikipedia page

[green roost]

This is super cool

[near hatch]

Any theory about sanji transformation into germa soldier

[ancient vault]

South German: either from Middle High German arber 'tree' (related to Latin arbor), an occupational name for a forester or perhaps a habitational name from some place named with this word, or from Arbihari, a Germanic personal name composed of Old High German arbi 'inheritance' + hari 'army'.
https://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=arber
Forester. Similar to farmer

[severe edge]

what even is king's actual name really

all the translations are messed up

[ancient vault]

we'll see tomorrow

[plucky kiln]

Kings Face reveal now
Makes me think that this won't be the last time we will see him

[amber oar]

We won't be certain until there's an official romanization. So, tomorrow

[amber oar]

Ah latin of course. Árbol is Spanish for tree

[twilit dagger]

can we sticky this somehow? a lot of people come up with Dragon isnt garp's son theories cus he looks like freaking Xebec

[modest skiff]

My theory of Dragon being Xebec’s sister’s son is the way I rationalize them looking similar

[amber oar]

I'm all for it but serves no purpose when there are tons of people that straight up don't recognize the validity of vivre card data, and/or bring up that one mistake from a dozen years old databook to say tHeY cAn LiE/gEt tHInGs wRoNG

[twilit dagger]

then we just throw those users out, i think we can arrange something with the mods

[modest skiff]

i think the current situation is working ok. Link the vivre card, move on from discussion.

I'm gonna just put that vivre card in a google doc for quick access or something lol

[modest skiff]

Hmmm this is really cool actually

[amber oar]

yeah but the "winged people from the mountains" part is completely made up. I don't have time to check the rest tbh

any Albanian here?

I mean, I do have time. Right now I'm not arsed . After I have some sleep I may do it

[modest skiff]

What do you mean made up? That's not a part of the story or whatever?

[amber oar]

I put the link above. "Arber" just means farmer. Someone edited the wiki or something

[modest skiff]

..LOL did someone really edit wikipedia due to One Piece

[amber oar]

theorists really, really want to be right

[errant rune]

That's the name translation of modern Albanian language
Ar/Arë meaning Gold and "bër" means "make" or "Do"
That's why i said in ancient Albania(illyran) Language
I'm Albanian btw😁

[amber oar]

ah but just people from the mountains, not winged people from the mountains

[errant rune]

It actually literally translates to (ancient albanian/illyrian) Winged people/Eagles of Mountain(cuz of Albanians having the two headed Eagle symbol), but it's nowhere to be found in english translations

[amber oar]

That said, "according to an user from New York".... Second and third generation Americans have an obsession with picking whatever nationality they have some trace of blood from.

I'm checking more links and the only conclusive thing is that Arbër is a historical name for Albania. Perhaps there's a link with the Albanian eagle, but not much more.

[amber oar]

Also, forgot to reply this - as much as I may like it, being stubborn isn't a reason for ban.

Otherwise I'd have to leave as well

[twilit dagger]

nah just ment only for this channel

[amber oar]

The point stands.
I respect people's rigth to be ret... I mean, to have different opinions. Even if I pity at them

[ancient vault]

someone did with nika when the chapter dropped

[amber oar]

I mean there is a link between the name Arbër and Albania, and consequently with the black eagle. But the name meaning specifically "people with wings from the mountains" is too specific to be true.

[errant rune]

Albania's name in Modern Albania is "Shqipëri" and people who live in Albania call themselves "Shqiptar". It's a word that took direct Insporation from the Ancient Albanian word "Arber"(meaning wise)
(That's what we learned in Albanian history books at least)
Shqipe=Eagle/Wings
Tar=Person
Shqiptar=Arber=Winged/Eagle Person

[pure raven]

I agree that arber probably more likely means farmer. Looking up the linguistic history of Albanian they have a mix of different languages that helped contribute to their current language. One of them being Latin and in Latin arbor means tree so I’m just putting two and two together.

Actually with this definition it could link to kings tattoo

[solar knoll]

A stupid theory but also amazing? What if brook awaken his df and can revive the dead will luffy want to revived ace?

[errant rune]

It would only make sense if he can revive One in exchange of his own "Life". Otherwise it would be broken AF

[solar knoll]

Or maybe it need a sacrifice to do that but if it does i think luffy will not do it

[ancient vault]

Oda has said in an interview hes against the idea of reviving the dead

[amber oar]

and that's why he's so reticent to kill characters in the first place

Come to think, for all the absence of death in present time, flashbacks tend to be a bloodbath in comparison. Is there even a flashback without any death?

[timid willow]

he can only live one day and only show up once so it wouldn't be that broken

[errant rune]

Hmmm?😂😂 there could be some connection tbh
Even the cross looks like the WG logo...i'm just looking far too deep at this point, but i'm having fun😂

[weak arrow]

@echo creek not the channel for that comment. #manga or #also-manga is where that goes

[normal flame]

Dose this kinda look like a bird????

[clear kraken]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uHhb8NGbOY interesting theory

some pretty big stretches tho

[pure raven]

I like the theory that Blackbeard ate a cerberus fruit and or Rocks hoping into Blackbeard's body of some sort where he literally is possessed by the will of Rocks which works with Oda's typical usage of themes

and that's how he's able to do technically 3 devil fruits for the three skulls he has

what

and the explanation of why Blackbeard names his ship the Saber of Xebec which is a name that most other people in the world would not know

[modest skiff]

I will rip this to shreds and add it to my report on BB theories I am working on. Expect to be done with my full technical review by December 22

[modest skiff]

Got a link to this cerberus theory? It sounds like it might be similar to the awful kraken theory

[clear kraken]

👀 i would like to see this technical report

[pure raven]

I dont remember where I read it but it was something like this

[modest skiff]

http://blackbeardtheory.blogspot.com/2012/01/cerberus-theory.html maybe this kaeore?

[modest skiff]

I'm on vacation from work until next year, so I am using my free time to summarize all the blackbeard theories I can find and review the pros and cons of each. If you find any others, feel free to DM me or post them here

So far I have finished the Kraken theory and now looking for others

[pure raven]

It's been stated a long while that BlackBeard has a very weird body. He literally doesn't sleep and if you pay attention to each of BlackBeard's appearances, his teeth are different each time specifically with the usage of some powers.

The theory goes that when BlackBeard was a kid, He had some connection to Rocks. Xebec effectively jumped into young BB's body and from there bided his time until he could make his move.

This isn't evidence, but it would sort of explain the double devil fruit situation where Xebec has 1 and Blackbeard has another with the Cerberus of sorts acts like a place holder but that's a bit weird. Cerberus implication being the three heads he has on his mast and the fact he calls his ship the Saber of Xebec which is a name the world government has tried VERY hard to wipe from the public consciousness.

It would also help explain why Shanks was incredibly Wary of BlackBeard since pre-time skip. He could at least sense something was off.

And thematically it works with Oda's usage of Will inheritance or in this case "Will takeover" or potentially in BlackBeards case, assuming theory is true, a literal carrier of the will/life of Xebec who Oda's lowkey setting up as a major player in the years to come

[modest skiff]

one of my theories has been xebec living in the yami pocket dimension, similar idea

[pure raven]

I find the discussion of Wills and it's themes and implications and execution fascinating specifically because you have

Im who is the true ruler of the world. Someone whose goal and purpose is to stomp out the will of other people.
Then you have BlackBeard, the dark mirror reflection of Luffy's notion of freedom.

And if you have Xebec being an inverse of Roger, who lives on through the pirate age as his will was inherited by a lot of people with Luffy being the main torch bearer, Xebec quite literally injecting himself into Blackbeard and having his will forcefully carried on through the individual rather than the raging fire that Roger did is also very appropriate

Thematically it works out really nicely assuming this is what Oda's goal would actually be.

It's also important to note that Xebec's actions are very similar to BlackBeard

If you recall, Xebec had a main crew of Kaido, BM, and WhiteBeard with almost any other person being whatever cause he didn't care.
These are major power house players in the world of one piece and likely were big shots even back in the day.

BlackBeard does almost the exact same thing with the escaped prisoners of Impel Down.

He takes and only cares for the strongest and what they could offer him. Not the Nakama or friendship or bonds that Luffy and Roger clearly emphasize

So something like this happening again with Xebec/BlackBeard is something I could absolutely buy.

[modest skiff]

Interesting, I'll add that to my list @pure raven 🙂 thanks for explaining!

[proud tree]

Is Doflamingo the strongest Celestial Dragon Haki user? Or could the be more powerful Celestial Dragons at Meri Joa?

[weak arrow]

@proud tree That conversation is more suited to #also-manga

[proud tree]

Because I asked myself how did the Celestial Dragons ancestors (20 kings) rose to power after the void cenutury concluded ... did they just deceive the world/ tricked 2 factions attacking each other, or did they have Strong Fighters among their ranks that lead to "honest" military superiority victory 800 years ago? In my theory the letter is the case.

[pure raven]

Im/Gorosei may be as strong if not stronger but that's a huge ???

[proud tree]

The 20 kings of the alliance may have been sword / Axe fighters, that stopped fighting as soon as they won. They left their rusting swords (likely 800 years old) infront of the empty throne.** But I only count 18 swords infront of the throne.** The 2 missing swords could be from kingdom of Alabasta and Imu himself.

[vapid minnow]

Think Imu took one of the swords to cut up the pictures

[fallen python]

Xebecs inverse to roger isn't the same as luffys and bbs

Xebec had the ultimate conqueroring ambition and roger wanted to conqueror nothing. Yet these 2 were opposites despite being the 2 strongest pirates at the time

[pure raven]

I was talking about crew formation and not personal ambition

Roger didnt recruit on strength

He recruited on just if he vibed with them; which is how he got Oden on the boat

[fallen python]

Thing is if you wanna know the real truth of what I think.I Don't even think rocks was just a pirate

Based on the fact that the crew killed each other. I'm assuming max they were together for 2-3 years

That makes rocks a max of roughly a min of 38 before he formed his pirate crew

[proud tree]

I had to check in the Anime if they also have only 18 swords infront of the throne there... I count 18 swords (episode 889) .. imo its valid to assume these weapons belonged to 18 of 20 kings that defeated the ancient kingdom with them.

[fallen python]

Theory: Rocks was a former admiral of the navy and defected

[proud tree]

Oda mentioned the number 20 numerous times at the foundation of the World Government (chapter 722)

and there where exactly 20 secret doctors in drum kingdom (chapter 136).

18 swords infront of the empty throne belong to the 20 founders of the WG

they where strong fighters, but unable to create a black blade

[ancient vault]

Strong fighters doesnt mean black blades lol

The black blade is only reserved for those who master the skill of a swordsman

Also I dont get your connection with 20 kings and 20 secret doctors

[ancient vault]

Arguably this mightve been the reason as to why one of the actual 19 swords is missing up there

[grizzled fog]

I was thinking a missing sword would belong to the Nefertari family, since they didn’t settle in Marie Jois, where the throne is located

[ancient vault]

Yes thats already logical but there are 18 only out of 20

So one additional is missing which could be the sword imu used to cut up the images

Because we were told 19 families actually moved to maryjoa I think

[grizzled fog]

That would make sense, is it possible one of them belonged to the don Quixote’s as well, and was removed when they left?

Unless there’s a member of that family remaining up there. Is mjosgarde a don Quixote?

[versed hamlet]

yes he is

[grizzled fog]

Ah

[junior cape]

As far as I know, Doflamingo is the only Celestial Dragon with any haki ability. The 5 elders may be considered "stronger", but that may be only due to their political influence. Although, one of them does seem to hold the Iidai Kitetsu, so maybe they do have haki.

[pure raven]

Ye

[slate mirage]

There is no reason to believe the gorosei are not strong, idk why this theory is so popular

[plucky kiln]

Its just the first time we saw them, we thought that those would be some random old rich dudes in suits who were annoying, but as the series continued we realised more and more just how influencial these 5 dudes are, and yeah the fact that we also know nothing about them also makes them very mysterious, and one guy has a sword so maybe all of them are capable strong fighters

[slate mirage]

I agree, this is also what i'm thinking

[plucky kiln]

and it would be super dope to see those five men going in battle mode

[split glacier]

They haven't aged either or they too old to see the changes.

[severe ice]

Interesting Theory!

[pure raven]

What if doors and walls of secret room are made of sea stone

[fathom matrix]

Some people had a theory that Shirohoshi's type are people that are the same height as her, and Joyboy was a giant

Hence the giant hat. And if Luffy's the next Joyboy and Shirohoshi the reincarnation of Posiden, then it could further the theory.

[timber silo]

thats true

[amber oar]

Ironically Shirahoshi is slightly short for a giant (11.25m). The smallest adult giants start around 12m (Morley is the shortest known)

[hot geode]

I gathered some of my favourite theories! Do you know all youtubers?
https://youtu.be/21Pj4JyperA

[ancient vault]

Lol german
In before mods take this down because its #promote-yourself

Also no hate but half of these theories are bad

[ruby depot]

funny if Roc D xEBEC WAS 100 YEARS OLD

Kadio of the 100 beast, Whitebeard saying to shanks you 100 years young to instruct me

Roger soon as he meet whitebeard before they fought asks him how old are you

why would he do that Roc gottta be old

[rapid fern]

Should Imu be Xebec? No evidence though obviously.

[split glacier]

If we assume Imu is immortal and has been around forever then no personally. Otherwise still seems weird for Xebec to attempt to kill the CDs and become King of the World, fail but then succeed at the same time

[ancient vault]

Sengoku did say hes not alive anymore. I doubt hes xebec. Just another of the outrageous fan theories

[amber oar]

I'm not even convinced Imu is a man

[split glacier]

That too. Might be some sexless thing from eons ago

[zinc iris]

it's one of those ideas that easily fall apart thinking about its implications
like that after the god valley incident the gorosei just let rocks walk in mj and rule over the world

[ancient vault]

or simply a woman
By the looks of it oda has dressed them in a more feminine traditional way of royal clothing

[grand walrus]

i think theres a chance imu is related by blood to vivi. reason why is I think imu is not one of the 19 families of the CD. however it is entirely possible imu is an entirely separate actor

[vagrant wyvern]

Theory/wish: The Zoro fight is far from over. We will learn that Zoan awakenings are a last resort only because you can’t transform back. King will use his awakening now that he has realized how much danger he truly is in.

Zoro will then turn his swords into black blades using Conqueror’s Haki, giving him the edge to take down King’s awakened form.

[grand walrus]

i dont expect this because: 1: zoro indicated he was already almost wiped. 2: permanent black blades is something for endgame zoro to do

[vagrant wyvern]

1: we’ve seen Zoro pull off crazy things when seriously injured.

2: Conqueror’s haki is tied to someone’s will. If his willpower is still strong enough to fight an awakened King, it could be enough to turn his blades black too. There’s been talk of black blades in Wano. I wouldn’t be surprised if it happens now.

[gray creek]

It’s Zoro’s endgame powerup because there’s not really anywhere to go from there. The narrative structure of Wano has been beyond clear that the Queen and King fights are over. Sorry, no awakening. Maybe Kaido if anything

[earnest pasture]

I don’t know if someone brought this up but does anyone think Zoro will fight Akainu because of his magma comments in the recent chapter?

If this was the wrong place for this, my bad.

[visual merlin]

I think it'd take a lot more than that for zoro to be the one fighting akainu

[earnest pasture]

I agree

It just came to mind because he recently acquired Kinemon’s fire technique and then that comment about King’s fire being like magma.

[next swan]

So I gotta ask people here, what do people think about Kaido and King and their escape

Just read the chapter myself so still collecting my thoughts

[copper frost]

It was probably during one of the times Kaido got caught and tried to be experimented on as seen by King's dialogue and the chains on Kaido's hands, looks like Punk Hazard trying to look at his devil fruit ability. Kaido probably made an acquaintance with King and Queen at the same facility, freed King, and sometime later took Queen in is my speculation

[next swan]

Interesting, the first thing that came to my mind was vegapunk tbh. I didn’t connect queen, but that makes perfect sense that since he’s a scientist that this how the three of them met. I wonder why Oda didn’t show him at least in one panel though

If it’s punk hazard that would make that place a lot more interesting for sure

[copper frost]

King doesn't like Queen, he doesn't want his memory of joining his captain first with Queen barging in there 😭

In all seriousness, I would think Queen rejected at that time and later Queen sought out Kaido out of interest in his abilities, got enamored by the power of Kaido and decided to stay as one of the first crewmates

[next swan]

Possibly

[bitter kraken]

Yeah it would make sense to me that queen was one of the ones who experimented on king and that’s why king dislikes him

[next swan]

I think this flashback might be just a taste of what’s to come with a full on few chapter flashback upcoming in the Kaido fight

That would be interesting if Queen was the one doing experiments on Kaido and king but I kind of doubt it

[ancient vault]

bro is casually walking out of there

stops by king: "oh shit this kid looks cool ngl"

[copper frost]

Yeah, it's very nonchalant

[ancient vault]

"I already got a King so ur the queen now"

[copper frost]

"Totally an appropriate name for an incel and the epitome of toxic masculinity"

[sand sail]

Luffy's bounty became 300 million after Enies Lobby

[pure raven]

Black beard can eat up to 3 devil fruits the will of D might seems to give him that power my future prediction is that will of D has some powers only few can use like luffy getting power boosts and faster learning powers in a combat and for black beard (teach) it gives him ability to eat more than 2 or(maybe 3 in future) devil fruits, Will of D definitely does something that we don’t seem to understand I know people will say it’s just a word D and a strong will at that nothing special but it is something more than special will see in those coming chapters 😋

By only few can use I meant only few people with Will of D

[split glacier]

[winter wave]

To reach laugh tale, you need to know how to swim (Or, if you have a df power, you will need someone’s assistance). This is mainly supported by the fact that most people if not all if them don’t have a devil fruit thus can probably swim. If so, at the end if the series someone will have to help luffy reach it (I am thinking maybe luffy will have a similar sickness to Buggy before reaching laugh tale). It’s not that strong of a theory but I like it. Let me know what you guys think

[pure raven]

You know, will of D is not something you can use to explain anything you want, it doesnt give you superpowers

[split glacier]

I mean there's boats.

[placid kite]

No

[winter wave]

I know, that’s why I added the buggy part. It’s just a theory so I can def be wrong but what if Buggy’s sickness is what Df users get when trying to reach it

[split glacier]

But Laugh Tale wasn't 5 minutes away or something. Do you think if you have a DF and want to goto Laugh Tale, you'll just get sick randomly?

[pure raven]

I clearly remember in one of the flashbacks, there was the front of some boat at the beginning of the island. They also said "disembark"

Disembark is explicitly for boats

[winter wave]

I see, well sorry I didn’t gather enough info. Thnx for constructive replies. Have a nice day

[pure raven]

Come on dont bully the man with them reactions its just a discussion

[pure raven]

Np 👍

[split glacier]

Well if we don't know what he's thinking fully then we can't understand the concept fully.

Ask more questions to understand it better, no?

[pure raven]

Yea but hostile reactions were unnecessary

[split glacier]

A cap and ? is "hostile" 😂

[pure raven]

For some reason i imagine a russian accent when someone ends their sentence with "no" like that

[pure raven]

Yeah its like "the hell this mf talking about" you know exactly what i mean. And some people are swayed by the least of thinga so be considerate

[split glacier]

That's on you for thinking that, not whoever put it there. You added all the extra stuff. If reactions on a message "harm" you then I dunno buddy.

[clear kraken]

Laugh tale has a higher chance of being usopps home town

It would be cool if it was on the moon

[pure raven]

AT THE SNIPERS ISLAND

[clear kraken]

Personally I just want that cover story about the space pirates to have relevance, and also I think that laugh tale should be literally impossible to accidentally stumble upon

[pine delta]

I think the space pirate cover just expand the world so when the WG or ancient kingdom are revealed to be aliens or something it’s not unknown previously

[pine delta]

Imagine if it’s a knock up stream type situation every 20 years and it’s set to blow a ship to the moon

[placid kite]

people think it’s in enies Lobby hole

[clear kraken]

That could make sense actually

[placid kite]

I mean why else would they build enies lobby right above a hole

[clear kraken]

For some unknown reason the world government put the center of their military power in that area

They could’ve done it cuz of that and forgotten the real reason over generations

[placid kite]

I actually don’t think they forgot

[clear kraken]

I think only like Imu and the gorosei would know if at all

[placid kite]

I think that’s the reason the government knew roger went to laughtale, perhaps it’s the entrance to it but it’s very hard to navigate

[clear kraken]

But he got an illness at laugh tale and sailed back to turn himself in

[placid kite]

he already had the illness

[clear kraken]

Oh, so then I suppose he figured out the secret and realized he wasn’t the one to change the world so directly turned himself in

[placid kite]

He was also going to die soon

The illness was very bad towards the end of his life

[pure raven]

I remember apoo started walking on the air at the scene right before timeskip. What if that is high west that gan fall was talking about

[ancient vault]

Can you post the panel

[pine delta]

One piece theories are so funny because after it ends we’re gonna be like “okay I guess enies lobby is just really weird”

[wary fossil]

That's most one piece islands tbh. Enies Lobby thing just got blown up because of the Ohara youtuber. I always assumed that the hole in Enies Lobby was made to make Impel Down and the passages that connect it and Marine HQ

[modest skiff]

I refuse to believe the enies lobby hole and the Wano whirlpools are unrelated

[clear kraken]

Ohara has some pretty good takes imo

[wary fossil]

IMO they're unrelated, unless you count them being (possibly man-made) defenses as being related, which basically every wall/building is related

[modest skiff]

I’ve never seen a single good take by him

[wary fossil]

only thing Ohara does well is curate Yuderon theories and Yuderon just throws shit at a wall and sees what sticks

[ruby depot]

shanks and sky race girl cannon

luffy already really has two of the ancient weapons franky knows how to build pluton

[timber silo]

didnt franky burn the papers

for pluton the blueprints

[amber oar]

some people (me included) think Franky stored the blueprints data somewhere inside his body, maybe in digital form. It's not an actual theory, as there's no basis for it. Just a hunch some of us have.

[ruby depot]

watch roger might of laughed at what anger joy boy while eating he was eating

[pure raven]

Pretty sure he said he memorized it before burning the blueprints

Re reading chapter 399 maybe I’m Mis remembering he just straight up burns them I didn’t see any mention of him memorizing them

[amber oar]

No, that's why I said there's no basis. I still believe it, but can't claim it's a legit theory
But I find extremely rare that after several generations of shipwrights keeping them and passing them down, he would have burned them so easily.

[pure raven]

It’s believable to me. I see the only reason the WG started getting suspicious was the last 40 years because Tom built Rogers ship.

[modest skiff]

I thought Franky talked about having photographic memory and that’s why he didn’t need the plans

[real swan]

I'm having trouble finding that in the scene where he destroys the plans. Perhaps he mentions it in a conversation with iceberg?

This is also reminding me that Iceberg plans to make water7 a ship, would be interested if that plays any kind of part in the future.

[wary fossil]

IIRC He does it in CP9's face. Burns it and said he was betting on Luffy and the SHs to win. Franky probably memorized the blueprints. He's a shipwright great enough to turn himself into a weapon and adapt Vegapunk tech to work for him.

[pure raven]

when did he say that? i dont remember that. it would be cool though a ship bigger than thriller bark.

[wary fossil]

After Enies Lobby, he's working on the blueprints

[weak arrow]

@primal roost this channel is for serious theories

[primal roost]

It Is Serious

Besides Law What D Member Is Smart

And Teach

So The D Either Stands For Dumb Or Dumbass

[weak arrow]

@primal roost You’re free to talk about that theory in #manga then

Not here

[primal roost]

Why Not?

[weak arrow]

We don’t allow non-serious theories in this specific channel. You’re free to post them in another one like #manga.

[chilly moss]

How Strawhats vs BB commanders will go

Luffy vs Blackbeard
Zoro vs Shiryu
Sanji vs tenth commander (Gin)
Chopper + Brook vs Laffitte + Doc Q
Usopp vs Van Auger
Robin vs Devon
Franky vs Pizarro
Jimbei vs San Juan Wolf
Nami vs Burgess
Yamato vs Vasco Shot

[willow forum]

Yamato lol

[grizzled fog]

can you explain the thoughts behind some of these? like yamato and vasco and nami and burgess? franky and pizarro? alot seem a bit random to me

[pure raven]

Rayleigh is a lunarian who clipped his wings and bleached his face. (He sort of looks like king with a bleach face and a beard)

[grizzled fog]

so he managed to get rid of every single characteristic of lunarians? wings, fire, hair color, and skin tone?

[pure raven]

Hair colour is the same and the fire can be controlled as we saw king switch between defence and agility

[grizzled fog]

his hair is the same due to age, he used to be blond

[pure raven]

Oh right sorry my bad, saw a king art work with a lighter face tone and felt like it looked like Rayleigh

[hasty python]

his hair is very orange in the anime tho

[grizzled fog]

either way that doesn't change much, but i'd personally trust the colors from an actual volume cover much more than the anime

[tacit veldt]

I hope Apoo's homies are safe

[ancient vault]

Im talking about the panel with gan fall

[muted valley]

Could be, that was Def wierd how Apoo ran on air. However Gran Fall could be talking about another sky island.

They did any people came to the island once in a while, so it wasn't like some rare thing for someone to discover it. Idk how many came through knock up stream but I would assume there is another way.

We saw Ugure on a sky island when Kaido jumped. I always assumed he knew other routes. But I also assumed Apoo was running to a sky island too.

[muted valley]

I'd trust a char color after several volumes. Cause sometimes there are errors in both anime and coloring or they change the color later on.

[grizzled fog]

but that’s definitely not the case here. That was several volumes ago, there’s no reason to doubt the actual canon colors we’re given in a volume cover just because the anime made it a bit brighter

[muted valley]

I'm saying, if there is a volume release later on that confirms the previous color that's the real one

[grizzled fog]

Not that they changed it anyway. Not sure why there’d be a dispute about this

We don’t need a second one to confirm the first color tho, there’s no reason to doubt it

[muted valley]

Yet in many manga hair colors have changed and later were retconned.

[grizzled fog]

We’re talking about just one manga here

[muted valley]

Not in OP I know of since I don't buy volumes or have any but many series it is fairly normal to happen once or twice

[grizzled fog]

Okay. But are you really going to doubt the canon colors for rayleigh’s hair because there’s not a second volume or anything double confirming it for you? There’s absolutely no reason to doubt it

[muted valley]

I'd go manga over anime for colors. However it isn't readily shown in color. That things in manga do get retconed in big popular series upon a second colored picture of a character, either due to error, person responsible for coloring got it wrong, or change in style by the writer/artist.

Idc about the color myself I'm stating a fact and what I'd do as it would ensure 100% accuracy and have the least likleyhood for retconning.

I have 0 clue about him on any volumes and this is first I heard about it. Idc what colors he is tbh

[grizzled fog]

Okay then

[muted valley]

I'd go as you did myself, vol cover and colored artwork as the definitive colors

[muted valley]

Oda as much as he is one of the better artists, still suffers from sameface/hourglass issues.

[sturdy hawk]

[muted valley]

Speculation that Zoro is in pain after the war

I'm guessing it'll be Thrillerbark/Sabody all over. Where he gets hampered in the next big fight due to still recovering.

[quasi roost]

Think it has to be like that. Or else the mink medicine will be even big of an asspull tbh

[mystic crown]

^^^^^^^^. Zoro out of commision next arc

[quasi roost]

Don't think he will be out of commission but he will be significantly weakened,

[mystic crown]

Like arlong park, Basically he will be nerfed

[muted valley]

Wym big asspull? Like hell be fine?

They said the meds doubled the pain and injuries after it wears off.

[proud tree]

Where the prisoners at punk hazard frozen after Ajokiji vs Akainu fight? Or are they older? (chapter 660)

[muted valley]

I always assumed older, it seems like PunkHazard was a old facility and I assume it had to do with MADS. Due to it having the fake Kaido fruit.

[quasi roost]

What I mean is, if he isn't shown to be significantly weakened or isn't at the same level as the Saboady Zoro, The Medicine and its effects will just be meh because we won't see the true consequences of it

[muted valley]

Well it sounded pretty literal. His entire body was broken, so if we take what they say as doubling the pain after it wears off, he's in for some sore days.

But he did tank a full Kaido hit and stay conscious and up. Better than Luffys first go at kaido. But I imagine he'll be like sabody zoro and likley struggle or he'll fully heal b4 another fight.

[ancient vault]

I got an idea

[pure raven]

Its too much a hassl eto search for them. Gan fall said the high west thing when he first met the straw hats, and apoo began running in the air at the time when supernovas entered the new world

[gray creek]

You’re fine, they’re already posted

[pure raven]

Where

[gray creek]

Just scroll up a bit

[pure raven]

The numbers of onigashima are failed ancient giants of punk hazard not all tho

[pure raven]

Ye i saw em.

Btw, i remember urouge recognizing kaido on the sky island, so since kaido has a connection to sky islands, maybe thats where he met apoo

[muted valley]

Apoo was an info broker. He likley got into it early on before he met Kaido. Using it as a way to further his goal.

[pure raven]

Im not talking about his skills im talking about how he met kaido

[abstract pond]

Kaido is one of the most famous people in the world. It's not surprising someone to recognise him.

[pure raven]

Yeah but urouge acted like he had connections to him and kaido didnt attack and try to recruit him

[gray creek]

Not hardly. Kaido basically said “sup, cool if I jump from here” and Urouge said “go for it”

[pure raven]

Kaido knows all worst generation members since he's interested in them so he would naturally go recruit them if he sees one, or take them in like kidd

[split glacier]

Urouge actually has a pretty good fruit. He converts damage taken into his own physical strength. Dude could tank Kaidos hit and become a beast lol.

[gray creek]

He’s the living reject dial

[pure raven]

Pretty sure it has a limit like marco but if he increases his stamina it will be extremely OP

[spice frost]

theory: maybe buggy is trying to be low profile(AKA small time pirate)
cause He has some info he know that would help The world goverment destroy the one piece and doom the world or something like that, and big time pirate's always has a big goal
Kaido's endgame goal seems to be nothing more than one big war that fuels his lust for destruction and strength that will ultimately be his final act.
Big Mom's goal of turning Totto Land into a racism-free utopia.
buggy knows this and wants to a low class pirate to mask himself under a crowd of small timers to not let the world goverment know about this "Secret"
you maybe asking how? kaido wants the thrill of battle, Big mom wants to create a racism-free utopia. small time pirate are just hurting people and acting like jerks in general
so buggy did all the things he did so he could just hold the info as much as he can

[plucky kiln]

This makes me think that we forgot the most important component of the Grand Fleet

Buggy

[severe ice]

Where do you think his fame come from? I got some theories.
1st. Being a Nakama's Rocks
2nd. His mitological DF.
3rd. His huge army Power.
4th. Escape from Marine a bunch of times.

[abstract pond]

All of it

[plucky kiln]

3, 4 and the basic title of being the strongest creature

I doubt that anyone knows about rocks or his power

[abstract pond]

And more things that we don't know.

[severe ice]

The ancient Marines! It is impossible than Garp and Sengoku were alone at the moment of God Valley Battle.

[plucky kiln]

Oh yes I totally agree

some of the videadmirals we know probably were there too

[sand sail]

Go ahead and read the channel description.

[plucky kiln]

wait was this my message

[sand sail]

No

[abstract pond]

Sengoku was at God Valley? Thought Garp was the only strong Marine there

[sand sail]

No, Garp was just the one who won the fight with Roger against Xebec, we don't know who else was actually there

[severe ice]

There's a possibility. Sengoku wasn't a powerful marine there that is true but he maybe went with Garp. We take into account Garp doesn't líke talk about his battles the knowledge of Sengoku can be based on He was there and saw the battle.

[pine delta]

given garp and roger were teaming up, and those are known as the "strongest" of that time, I don't think they would be depicted as teaming up if there were other marines similar to garp in strength present.

also, only sengoku even knows about the battle as it was a suprise to all the marines there. it was probably a desperate, very small in terms of scale struggle. sengoku would've heard about it from garp. we don't know what really happened there, its possible it was literally just garp and roger teaming up

[abstract pond]

yeah, Garp and Sengoku doesn't feel to be on the same crew. They both probably were captains or higher at the time.

[severe ice]

I don't know what kind ACoA got Garp but it was enoughly powerful for standing Roger's ACoc

[sand sail]

They weren't known as the strongest of the time though, they were just famous for doing what they did

We know for a fact it wasn't just Garp and Roger teaming up, we do actually see a bunch of marines around Garp at one point. It's more likely they're just the only two who fought Xebec, especially if the rest of the crew were powerful enough to keep another admiral down at the time

[pine delta]

true. i hope we actually get a entire flashback of the incident.

[severe ice]

Yes, there are still a lot ambiguities in the God Valley story.

[amber oar]

God Valley? Sengoku confirmed he was already VA.

He has been refusing a promotion this long

[abstract pond]

Isn't that Garp? Sengoku didn't refuse it. He reached fleet admiral

[amber oar]

I mean Garp.

Sengoku confirmed Garp was already VA during God Valley.

[severe ice]

Would you mind remind me if this spot is God Valley?

[amber oar]

It's chapter 957, literally when Sengoku is narrating God Valley's incident

[ancient vault]

Can you post the colored manga of xebecs ship for me?

[amber oar]

is it already out?

oh nvm, I have it.

[sturdy hound]

coloring is up to vol 95

[amber oar]

trolololol it's in sepia

[wary fossil]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/3/36/Rocks_Pirates_Ship.png anime coloring

[alpine cobalt]

Unrelated to the discussion above, but is there a possibility that the Lunarians lived in Mariejois before they were killed by the WG and the WG settled in Mariejois after the war during the Void Century?

[pine delta]

I doubt it considering King is still alive, unless king's parents/group managed to evade WG for 800 years

[amber oar]

It was said they lived in the Red Line before Mary Geoise existed

[alpine cobalt]

When do you think they were exterminated? I always thought it would be some time during the Void Century or before.

[amber oar]

They may have been displaced from there and surviving on the run. King was born in the Grand Line

[alpine cobalt]

OK, hmm. Mariejois seems to have some sort of connection to the ancient kingdom tho. Same symbol on Oars as above the room with the straw hat below Mariejois.

[severe ice]

Oh, yeah I remember it! TY!

[modest skiff]

It feels likely to me that the Lunarians were some sort of keepers of something sacred/powerful/important atop the Red Line and it was a source of paranoia/envy to humans, which is what inspired them to exterminate Lunarians. My suspicion is that the Celestial Dragons managed to seize/occupy this thing (which I believe to be a world tree, either eve or adam or both) but that they lack the capability to fully utilize it. If this/these thing(s) were a source of great power, I think this contributes to CDs reigning as dictators, through fear of what they can do. One of my main theories is that this power allows for controlling the sea level of the planet, which would be a reason the navy would bend the knee, out of fear of the world dying during a war. Rising the sea level would leave Marie Jois as the only survivors since they have tried to make sure no one else can live on the Red Line. But I think the whole thing is a bluff and they actually can't use it and that is the "secret of marie jois" Doffy talks about.

[ancient vault]

its on mangasee with official translation too, the site just want working on my phone

[ancient vault]

still not sure if these are horns or flames

[alpine cobalt]

Great theory. It makes sense that the CD's have something up their sleeve to be able to stay on top for so long. Regarding the National Treasure of MJ; I think it could also be the existence of Imu. I.e. if Doffy revealed Imu's existence to the world it would shatter the belief of "equality" among the kingdoms a part of the WG and reveal that the empty throne is in fact not empty. Doffy also talked about utilising the Ope Ope nomi to take controll over the world, which he could if he switched personalities with Imu..

[severe ice]

There's a panel in the Manga, Marco said it a Tribe lived in the Top of The Red Line even before Marijoes.

[normal flame]

Do y’all think the grand line was made via awakend logia devil fruit ?

[shadow pike]

You guys think Malco is gonna carry the explosives away before they go off?

Not so sure momonosuke is gonna be able to stop it in time

[paper shard]

Rocks had the best ship fr

[grizzled fog]

I don’t think the explosives are gonna be in the form of a single big bomb like alabasta, these aren’t even meant for the same purpose, I think it’ll just be ridiculous amounts of gunpowder and weaponry, and idk how he can carry that

[split glacier]

Looks similar to Oars' flag 👀

[abstract pond]

Yamato surely will stop the fire demon so the explosives don't detonate

[split glacier]

Or die trying

[ancient vault]

Oars flag?

We never so oars flag iirc?

[wary fossil]

oars jr's flag

[grizzled fog]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/a/ac/Little_Pirates'_Jolly_Roger.png/revision/latest?cb=20151024051739

[ancient vault]

Looks a lot different to me tbh

[wary fossil]

I think they're talking about the oni horns

[ancient vault]

Just has the similarity that on rocks thing might be horns. It lust as well be flames tho

But the horns are very different. Rocks flag has like gecko moria horns while oars his has proper ancient giant horns

[abstract pond]

could be hair?

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/villains/images/5/53/Rocks_D._Xebec_Manga_Infobox.jpg/revision/latest/top-crop/width/360/height/450?cb=20191206221656
Rocks didn't look to have horns

[ancient vault]

Rocks = Locs -> xebecs was black

[ancient vault]

Devil fruit

Well I think its fire and he has a hellhound fruit

[severe ice]

"It seems no coincidence then, that within Mariejois, there is a place called, 'The Room of Flowers.'

This was likely the Lunarian Garden.

Many have already theorised that this room is a reference to, The Garden of Eden."

[split glacier]

A bunch of fire conjurers with a garden. Risky business

[tardy pumice]

It's just a normal flower garden. Can't a super villain enjoy a perfectly normal flower garden, sheesh!

[pure raven]

I think it might be a soul type devil fruit

like brook but different

[vagrant wyvern]

Usopp is on his way towards Kinemon. If Kanjuro is really dead this time, maybe his devil fruit will reincarnate nearby, and Usopp will eat it. We've already seen him use it to make ammo, and Usopp needs a powerup badly to keep up with everyone now that Nami has Zeus.

[latent raft]

Maybe on the Sunny, they have the fruits of Nami

[mild pewter]

what if viola could see the treasure of mariejois

[sinful helm]

as someone already said here most likely walls made of sea stone or some other tech

[pallid scaffold]

So King is a Lunaria and they have black wings too, I wonder what their relationship is to Skypiea

[near osprey]

Just they're polar opposites most likely, Light and Dark Angels and all that

[gray creek]

Super unlikely, the fruit looks nothing like a tangerine or whatever Nami grows. I’m pretty sure the sunny is all the way back where Onigashima used to be, and now we’re over mainland Wano

[pure raven]

Luffy, Kid and Law will be classified as the Lords of the Sea by the WG at end of Wano.

[tardy pebble]

If usopp gets a power up, I’d rather it be finally getting observation or something better over a devil fruit

[grizzled fog]

He has gotten observation tho. He got it in dressrosa

[lean pine]

More observation

[weak plaza]

Theory Theory Fun Fun

Kuina death.
She’s sacrifice herself to the white legendary samurai blade that Zoro currently use, that samurai had the soul of Kuina in there.

[pure raven]

why would a little girl do that

[opal sparrow]

😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

[echo kayak]

Sorry

Deleted

[proud tree]

theory: Uroge is a Lunarian that colored his hair black and his wings white to avoid detection by the WG

[ancient vault]

Wheres the flame? He looks a lot more birkan tbh

[muted ember]

If he's a Lunarian plus his df he shouldn't have had problems with the pacifista

[proud tree]

he permanently disables his invulnerability flames, because it would make his devilfruit useless

[proud tree]

Lunarian is not a powerlevel but just a race

[ancient vault]

LMAO i just realised

Bruh fun idea but I think thats to confusing to write

[severe ice]

That sounds strange due to he doesn't have the característic Lunarian tattoo!

[severe ice]

It is a Birkan! 👍

[muted ember]

It's not I'm saying Lunarian durability and speed plus a df like his it should be easy work

[severe ice]

(Same race of Enel btw)

[proud tree]

what is the fun idea you had?

[ancient vault]

Nonon im saying your idea is fun

[proud tree]

his race was never confirmed in an SBS

[muted ember]

Enel?

[proud tree]

it was never confirmed Uroge came from Birka. Enel could just be a normal human that lived in Birka as a minority

[ancient vault]

He simply looks s lot more birkan snd youre going a long way around when his characterstics spesk for birkan

White wings
No fire

Why should we assume hes not what hes presenting to be and find all these excuses for what speaks for itself

Also

Theres a limit to the damage he gan take. He doesnt get infinitely stronger. Unless his flame completely negates damage to the point his DF doesnt count it then it would be a lot better to combine these two if its jsut simply about damage being dealt
We have nothing telling us these abilities counteract each other

[proud tree]

if king has his flames active he takes 0 damage no?

[muted ember]

He got cut by Zoro w his flame up

[ancient vault]

Yes but the damage is being dealt to his body. Its not like the attack disappears. We have no idea how it works thats why connecting it to urouges DF is also going a long way around

[ancient vault]

I think this is a mistake or its haki btw. Itherwise its an inconsistency that doesnt make sense. Wait for volume scans

[muted ember]

What's an inconsistency?

[ancient vault]

King is untouchable when his flame is on. From chapter 1022 on going none of zoros attack made king bleed when he his flame was on

Heard someone else say it might be haki since blood is drawn s bit differently

[muted ember]

The blood is haki?

[ancient vault]

Yeah might be haki. Im just trying to explain it before the volume scans are out. Maybe they do correct it. If not I think it was a little mistake on odas part

[muted ember]

The volume w 1022 not out yet?

[final wing]

This guy came to talk about king again

[ancient vault]

Nope its the one coming out. I think zoros chapter was the volume ender

[final wing]

Bro you're fucked no offence. I say that as nicely as possible

[ancient vault]

What lol

[final wing]

Not you the guy knows who I'm talking

[ancient vault]

[muted ember]

Idk u bruh

[final wing]

He hopped to a different chat to start up this bullshit about King and zoro cutting him

[muted ember]

Also scroll up and see I didn't start the Lunarian convo

[final wing]

Theres no way king is the epitome of what were gonna see from the lunarian race

And it makes me wonder if half breeds can use the powers of said races

Like say if sasaki can use fishman karate

[muted ember]

Humans can use Fishman karate

[ancient vault]

Fishman karate can be learned. Its nothing born with

[final wing]

Oh yeah

[ancient vault]

Koala, sabo and robin use it some fully some partially

[final wing]

Guess the lunarians and minks are the only examples

Sabo wasn't using fishman karate

[ancient vault]

You could add to fishmen they way they can control water

[final wing]

I think sabo taught Robin the dragon claw. It's likely her finisher

[ancient vault]

Ah i thought he also showedit in robins little flashback

[final wing]

Well I guessing here based on what

[muted ember]

Luffy knows which Straw Hats have Haki so I don't think she has it at the moment

[final wing]

It doesn't require haki

It's a martial art. It's amplified by haki

[ancient vault]

Yeah u right. Tho she didnt use it this arc

[muted ember]

Dragon claw is a Haki technique everytime we seen it I'm pretty sure

[ancient vault]

Thevlast time he commented on it was in PH thi

[final wing]

Yeah because haki makes it stronged

Theres no haki martial art lol. They are just amplified by haki

You think the club techniques of kaidou are haki techniques

[muted ember]

Yea so Robin didn't have Haki training coming out of the timeskip

[final wing]

And like I said you don't knew haki for the martial art

[muted ember]

Both his named clubbed attacks so far use hake re: Kaido

[ancient vault]

Yeah which is weird

[final wing]

Haki amplifies the technique its not the determining factor to use kt

The techniques aren't haki based how do you not understand this lmao

They are amplified by haki. All can be done without haki

[ancient vault]

Hes saying they would workwithout haki too. Like jet pistol or sth

[final wing]

Bro how can one person get it and the other guy is this fucking slow

Tray relax bro talk about Kings flames or some shit before you hurt yourself

[ancient vault]

Chill, keep it civil

No need to insult him

[final wing]

Bro everytime I talk this guy he gives me a migraine

[muted ember]

Yea but if Kaido just swings his club around without Haki I would say those aren't really techniques just general fighting

[final wing]

This shit is supposed to be fun I feel like I'm explaining math to the dumbest person in the class

[muted ember]

His named attacks are all Haki moves

[ancient vault]

Thunder bagua without hali would just him moving very fast with his club against someone

[final wing]

They are amplified by haki
All the moves can be done without haki

[ancient vault]

With haki its the same thing just stronger cause haki

[final wing]

Lmao thank you bro

Yeah I'm done your officially nuts bro

[muted ember]

But Kaido wouldn't call that Thunder Bagua is what I'm saying

[ancient vault]

Armanent haki as a whole doesnt really seem to creative cause its mostly just punch harder. Ryou has different applications so there could be attacks that are solely based on the use of advanced armanent haki/ryou

But for example armanent coating or coc coating is really just „punch harder“

[final wing]

He would call that thunder bagua.

The thunderbird bagua is the form of swinging and the speed behind the technique

Haki just makes it more powerful but I'm done anyway. Stop talking about this

[ancient vault]

How would you know. Luffy still calls his attacks jet pistol for example

[final wing]

Jet pistol can be done without haki

[muted ember]

He used jet pistol without Haki before so it's not the same imo

[final wing]

Haki amplifies said technique. Bro I'm starting to think you might not be good up there you feel me

[ancient vault]

Thats the point hes making tho

[final wing]

Bro it's cool dead it he is not ok

[wide drum]

I think he needs some sleep

[ancient vault]

But ig for gear 3 attacks its different.
Without haki it was called giganto pistole
With haki its elephant gun

[muted ember]

It's not analogous bc everytime we seen thunder bagua its a Haki move. Jet pistol is a df attack

[final wing]

I completely understand that and you are very correct and this may sound Petty but please ignore me

But when tf did I say g3 with/without haki was the same

[muted ember]

Isn't attacks changing names with Haki added an argument for me?

[wide drum]

🍿

[final wing]

Yeah I'm done with this

I have a prediction
I think 1040 will be rocks face reveal

[ancient vault]

True. Ig u were just arguing for sabo snd the fact that such attacks can also exist without haki since its martial art

[final wing]

Thank you for not being an idiot

[ancient vault]

But they didnt. Since jet pistol stayed the same

[proud tree]

Do we have any information about the ox lloyd beside the one mention of killer in chapter 594? Is this ship a secret weapon of the marines?

[muted ember]

U said they changed for g3? Or did I misread?

[ancient vault]

Yes but they dont for gear 2. Sanjis stayed the same too. Im saying both things can exist snd since sabos is a martial art style its not hard to believe his exists without haki too

[muted ember]

Sanji's attack name did change w haki

[ancient vault]

This is not worth arguing for tho so i‘d say drop the debate

[muted ember]

From Diable to Ifrit

[ancient vault]

Diable jambe stayed the swme sfter the timeskip

Ifrit jambe was a combination of armanent haki and the exoskeleton

[chrome spire]

Yall wanna continue this debate I suggest #manga this is #manga-theories

Y’all arguing about nothing. Dude is trolling y’all.

[wide drum]

@muted ember go to sleep. You need it.

[chrome spire]

Lunarians? Or will Zoro go back to pre TS days in his level above Sanji

[muted ember]

Somebody brought up the theory that Robin learned dragon claw I said she didn't bc she doesn't have Haki. We can go back to that topic

[wide drum]

You’re thinking too much.

[chrome spire]

Oh yeah def can. I don’t see her having it. But you know always a possibility maybe 20%

[chrome spire]

Stop being rude. Have some decorum and class about yourself

[wide drum]

[final wing]

Anyway I think oda will do a face reveal for rocks in 1040. My reasons for this is that it would be 600 chapters after dragons full face reveal
And 600 chapters after bbs powers reveal
And 68 chapters after the start of act 3
68 is 6(Roku) 8(Hachi)
Roku being the pronunciation of rocks name and hachi being a reference to hachinosu
I know it sounds crazy. But I'm only doing this because oda does this from time to time
I think the face reveal will mimic dragons and will framed from the same angle as his to emphasis how similar they will look
I think this chapter will end with him about fight captain john. This is supported by the fact that we have gotten flashbacks and lineage moments for zoro and sanji in their fights.
Zoro and the shimotsuki
Sanji and the germa
I can only imagine that luffy and kid will get the same for the next 4 chapters coming
Kids encompasses killers BTW.
1039 may end with kaidous flashback and 1040 will reveal rocks as he is just about about fight john
I know it's a wild prediction but spare me

[muted ember]

Pronunciation of Rocks would be something like Rokkusu

[chrome spire]

Lol a really wild prediction. That’s got >10% chance any of it being true lol i don’t get the thinking Rocks is related to luffy or Dragon.

[final wing]

Spare me bro.

But I think kid and killer will gey some big lore reveals in the next 4 chapters

I actually think killer is the son of shiki and will get conquerors haki this arc

[wide drum]

Oh not another conqueror’s haki user

[final wing]

Bro if yamato has it I don't even care anymore at this point

[chrome spire]

Lol killer don’t have it

[final wing]

If his the son of shiki he will get it

[muted ember]

I think Rocks will be kind of like Luffy but idk about related

[chrome spire]

Maybe. Ace was the son of Roger didnt exhibit it

[final wing]

Keep thinking that.

[final wing]

Lmao he did have it bro.
He literally said you too when he saw luffy use it.

He used it in the Ace novel and had full control

[chrome spire]

Lol I damn sure will. I ain’t nothing to suggest otherwise

[final wing]

I'm talking to tray nigga

[chrome spire]

And? I said I WILL I AINT TRAY HOE

[final wing]

So who tf are you responding to since no one was talking to you

[chrome spire]

Watch yo Fckn mouth that’s who I am

[final wing]

If no one was talking to you. You must be talking yourself nigga

[chrome spire]

Cause you spouting off nonsense

[final wing]

Imma remember you when my predictions right.

And this time I'm talking to u clown boy

[chrome spire]

Anyways. I don’t got time for casuals. I’ll be send you a 🤡 message in two chapters have a blessed day

[wide drum]

🍿

[chrome spire]

Lmfao

[final wing]

https://tenor.com/view/buttering-popcorn-butter-melted-butter-snack-gif-10351021

[wide drum]

Finally, that Tray mf is asleep

[final wing]

That guy is one dumbass guy bruh

You should have seen what the bro was saying in bda

[chrome spire]

Lmao y’all he our brother in One Piece spirit dont all out attack him 🤣

Cant wait to see Pedro alive in the new Germa cover series lmao

[final wing]

Anyway Imma explain the killer son of shiki theory

The place where oda got the name shiki from was from an old 1990s manga about you guessed it. Killers.

[wide drum]

Hell no

[final wing]

Killer has an alter ego. Where he loves to kill and shit

[wide drum]

I thought of it before too

[final wing]

I actually wouldn't mind Pedro being alive lmao

I don't give af about deaths anymore

[muted ember]

No I'm just laughing at the irony of being scolded for not talking theories just to see the chat descend into insults being thrown around

[wide drum]

There’s nothing left for Pedro anyway.

[final wing]

And killer is 27 yrs old
The edd war was 28 years ago when shiki lost and went into a long ass recovery so it makes sense he had a kid around then

And BTW kamazo is killers real name

No way you clowns think killer is his real name

[chrome spire]

Ok and? I stopped myself and got back one topic. You had no intention too. I defended you as well. Ungrateful cur

[split glacier]

Conq Haki isn't bloodline related btw

[ancient vault]

Why everybody hating on Tray now LMAO

[chrome spire]

Nice nice. See this good info bro.

[wide drum]

Man it’s obvious but this is an anime so any stupid name given to a child would make sense

[ancient vault]

I wouldve said sth about the message sbove this one but this sums it up basically. Fake out deaths ruined the perception of deaths in OP

[wide drum]

I believe that Tray is a real D. A Dummy.

[final wing]

And killer has the same fighting style as shiki aswell

[ancient vault]

Fair. Just dont throw around insults in here. Keep it civil

[wide drum]

I’m just trolling. We’re all children of the sea.

[final wing]

Obviously I know it isn't the exact same but they both use the duel short blade type shit

Killer will get conquerors. You gotta be a clown If you think he isn't getting stronger

[ancient vault]

Thats pretty different tho

[chrome spire]

Enough talk about crybabies.

This is made of teenage boys with prolly a lot of us getting into way before our teens so Oda was trying to not make it so dark with the old deaths not being deaths. But I think since we’ve gotten to the new world he has embraced the more sinister side to society cause I believe he knows his core fan base are all NOW adults.

[ancient vault]

Nope

The majority of Ops fanbase is still kids or teens

[final wing]

John is kids father
Shiki is killers father

[wide drum]

Oh no

[final wing]

Bro trust me g. Im not on some tray shit

[chrome spire]

Uhh yeah cause there are more kids in this world than anything? Lol I get that but there are things called subtext. And they didn’t stand out early on in the story like they do now

[final wing]

And John is the former user of aokijis

Not shiki aokiji before you guys tray me

[ancient vault]

[fervent mirage]

I think Black Beard is Actually White Beard

[ancient vault]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using #manga-theories for any joke theories you may have. This channel is strictly for serious discussion on the realm of possibilities one truly believes in, and can explain in a manner that conveys why. Please consider this a general warning.

[final wing]

Is that your attempt of mocking my theory you fucking clown

[fervent mirage]

No? I just came here to say that and leave

[final wing]

Hope so g

[fervent mirage]

I haven’t even looked at the other messages

[wide drum]

Kid and Killer doesn’t need a good family history just to become great characters. Could say the same thing to Zoro too, he’s already cool.

[final wing]

No I'm not saying that they need it to be cool

It's the parallels which are important here

Yamato - son of kaidou
Killer - son of shiki
Kid - son of John

Drake a placeholder for silver axe
Apoo a place holder for Wang zhi
Bonney a place holder for Big mom

Luffy at the helm of the supernova with them behind him

They will take out kaidou

[muted ember]

Shiki has conqueror's?

[final wing]

Bro are you fucking serious

Go back to sleep man

You really think he was one of the 4 leading pirates of the old era without conquerors dumbass

You really think garo and sengoku would fight him together if he didn't have conquerors

You really think a guy who wants to rule the world and has such a high ambition has no conquerors

[fervent mirage]

Mamama

[final wing]

Tray you are officially a retard

[wide drum]

Oh boy

[final wing]

I'm Knighting you bruh feel honoured

[muted ember]

I'm just asking if he had it in story? No?

[fervent mirage]

[final wing]

Nope garp doesn't have conquerors

Zoro mid diffs garp. We haven't seen garp use conquerors so guess he doesn't have it

It's not like roger didn't say they used to nearly kill each other
It's not like his the father of dragon and gfather of luffy

It's not like he is the hero of marines who defeated the rocks pirates

Guess garp doesn't have it yamato low diffs

[muted ember]

I think someone in here said that "used to kill each other" is the wrong translation

[final wing]

Well your not really good at thinking so I can't take your word g

[wide drum]

Sengoku is still the only known marine to possess conqueror’s haki , damn. Garp should have it.

[final wing]

Bro conquerors haki buffs punches dramatically

A guy who is known over the world to have the strongest punch definitely fucking has it

[ancient vault]

What do yamato kid and killer have in common

[normal imp]

There's gonna be spoilers today?

[ancient vault]

Maybe

[final wing]

There parents are both from the rocks pirates in my hc

And killer is gonna get conquerors haki. It isn't that special. We have to face it conquerors isn't all that anymore

It terms of the select few who have it

[final wing]

Xebec is an adopted name of rocks

It's headcanon bro relax

I can already see this guy typing "panels?"

[split glacier]

Xebec is his first name

[final wing]

Yeah I'm aware and I don't believe it is his born first name

[split glacier]

Tranquilo buddy

[final wing]

I think the name was adopted similar to what Albert is doing

Albert - King
? - Xebec

[ancient vault]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using #manga-theories for any joke theories you may have. This channel is strictly for serious discussion on the realm of possibilities one truly believes in, and can explain in a manner that conveys why. Please consider this a general warning.

[ancient vault]

The channel is not just for headcanon and ppl have a right to ask for evidence. Otherwise its word against word which is boring

[final wing]

Fair I can explain

Wanos biggest theme is identity. Several characters are facing some form of identity crisis both enemies and good side.

Tonoyasu to Yasuie
Denjiro to kyoshiro
Hiyori to Komurasaki
Yamato to oden
Arber to king
Linlin to Olin

Sanji and his vinsmoke identity
Zoro and his shimotsuki identity

There are several others aswell.

It's been about facing one's true identity.

Thats why I believe several more characters on the way are under fake names

Queen
Whos who
Killer

And the reason I say rocks is because the name of a character reflects them in one form or another.

Especially for a character as important to the overall narrative and symbolism of one piece such as xebec

Sanji is has San meaning 3. He is the 3rd bro

Zoro is fox in Spanish we know his grandfather's pet was a fox gyukimaru

Roger. The most iconic pirate phrase emphasises rogers notoriety and fame within the op world

[final wing]

I believe the pirates who were aiming for joyboy all have names which link to pirate ships

Of course a xebec is a type of ship so it makes sense right

Luff being part of a ship
Oars being part of a ship
Jolly roger being part of a ship

So oda has a trend of naming these people after PARTS of ships not entire ships

But a name also has to make some form of sense. None of these actually sound like a name

[pine delta]

What part of a ship is the xebec

[ancient vault]

Xebec is a ship. Not a part of a ship

[smoky basin]

Har har har it's me Manouvering D. Thruster

[sullen path]

anyone else disappointed by how fast king and queen were defeated? like compared to zoros and sanjis fights in enies lobby this feels like it should be longer than that but its actually shorter. even comparing luffys fight with a first commander although its obviously not feasible to have their fights be as long as luffys it shouldnt be this quick either

[split glacier]

Couldn't really last any longer with the time limit. Imagine they were going 100% from the get-go, there's no need for a 5 day fight or whatever

[foggy rain]

There’s a theory out there that the beast pirates will revive for one last final war esc battle before the end

[split glacier]

Would mean they are all awakened and Morj is right lol

[sacred thorn]

Can u pls share the site ?

[sullen path]

doesn't have to be 5 days in-anime time. like the luffy vs katakuri fight was 12 hours or so but felt much longer. it couldve been something like that. atleast 5-6 chapters minimum because theyre supposed to be yonko level. doesnt feel like they struggled a whole lot in wano

[sullen path]

would make sense. a yonko crew of zoan type and they're not awakened? sounds fishy

[split glacier]

That's just the ending scene tho. 6 chapters for an ending scene? You want 3 months for individual fights? There isn't that type of time. They struggle a lot. Sanji and Zoro have both passed out (Zoro will next chapter most likely)

[spice berry]

Wtf they struggled a lot. Zoro was just playing with his life there.

[sullen path]

in my opinion, it doesnt seem like the victory was well deserved and yeah, now that theyre on their way to be one of the strongest crew in the world, 3 months each for zoro and sanji's fight doesnt seem crazy

[ancient vault]

I mean the fight actually did take almost 4 months

[ancient vault]

Oh each lol, you cant have 6 months on two fights. Thats fcked up pacing

I think an additional chapter wouldve only benefited the two and their fight but I dont think their length is the problem but rather how the time was used in this fight and how each scenes were seperated from each other

But thats not a topic for #manga-theories. If you wanna disxuss it move it to #also-manga

[final wing]

I agree that oda wants to show zoan awakening through kaidou

The zoan awakening in tandem with kaidous fb is an amazing narrative choice just to display the affect and its meaning to kaidou as a character

Like the act ends with kaidou awakening

And then we get an fb

Tbh oda leaves alot of plopoints because he wants to do them in certain ways

Many people asked why big mom didn't immediately ask kid about him stealing from her and what sweet commander he injured. And they been fighting for a while

She will ask when we get the kid fb chapter just because it makes relevant then

[pure raven]

zoan awakening makes them heal fast right so if luffy really want to win this fight somebody should have to kill kaidou may be King n Queen too otherwise prob they will come back since they heal faster

[final wing]

Thats not how it works man

He needs to break the will of all the beast pirates

Not just a loss but a loss that makes them not bothered to fight anymore

Thats why each beast pirate will have to get some form of fb

And why they are certainly coming back

[pure raven]

But is it possible someone with Kings Haki / strong will just will lose that also since given the fact Kaido already was defeated 7 times before too

[final wing]

Not like that. Breaking someone's will doesn't mean they lose their conquerors

Kaidou attempted to break the will of the supernova. What will actually happen is that his crews will is gonna get broken

[split glacier]

You can't lose Conq Haki

[pure raven]

I did nt meant losing haki i just said cause only few people with most strong will get the kings haki I just said it to highlight how rare and strong his will so just loosing one battle will not make him quit

[wide drum]

Yeah, I guess. Chinjao is a good example for this one. He lost his drill and his pride but he can still use Conqueror’s Haki.

[exotic edge]

But he still has that ''Kingly Ambition''. He had hope inside of his. Like i think we are going to see people who's losing their conquerors haki because of their will is broken.

[smoky basin]

i was looking at the ancient kingdom little image we have and some parts of that island really have some ship-like structures huh
i wonder if it was a mobile kingdom like the germa
i was even thinking that maybe they had someone with a store/earth/ground logia that could 'couple' other ships/islands/structures into this mobile island
maybe one big pirate crew that got out of had on how many people joined it lmao

[final wing]

I think god valley is baltigo

Kaidou who seems to be half ancient giant

It would create a nice parallel with kaidou

Kaidous headquarters are in the last remains of his oni race in the land of wano. Previously called ryugashima and now called onigashima

Dragon who might be half lunarian has his headquarters in the last remains of his lunarain ancestors in god valley

Previously called god valley now called baltigo

[severe ice]

I think the only one thing which not all pirates can achieve it is ACoC. Breaking a will is not enough for losing Conqueror's ability. A clear example it is Eustass Kid. That guy was humillated by Kaido and still posseses Conqueror's Haki

[tacit veldt]

Did Baltigo ever get an official romanization? I could see how It could be some kind of lost in translation anagram for God Valley

The -go only lacks a D to be "God" and Va is written as Ba since the V sound doesnt exist in japanese

There's some assonance

[proud tree]

Magellan had black wings, horns and the skull symbol: Typical Lunarian markers. Theory: The warden and vice warden of impel down dress like this, because they made fun out of Lunarians that way, while they tortured them.

[proud tree]

god valley could also be the ancient kingdom location. It also seems to be white stone in Clovers thoughts

[split glacier]

God valley looks green and full of trees tho (animation anyways)

[split glacier]

You can't obtain or lose Conq Haki. It's just something you have from birth but it's not blood related. You either know how to release it or you don't. There's no potential to have it but they lost their will etc. They didn't have it anyways. It's not possible for everyone, it defeats its purpose then.

[sand sail]

Humiliated =/= broken will

Luffy was equally humiliated, but look at him now. Likewise, @split glacier we don't actually know that conqueror's is something you can't develop at some point, or why only some people have it and others don't. It could very well be entirely a personality thing.

[severe ice]

It is true! Perhaps ppl who born with that is gifted for the entire life! No matter what happens with their will

[drowsy gate]

Why people say Zoro will be able to cut nothing

[muted valley]

I'd go as far and say broken will = Conqourered.

[modest skiff]

Oooo this is interesting and fits well with one of my larger scope theories about what happened to the Lunarians. I will add this to it

[gray creek]

Haki is literally will, so of course if you lose it you lose haki. It’s not confirmed to be something that has actually happens, but it’s possibly something that could explain Moria. Maybe even why Ace never used conquerors in modern day, but that one is admittedly more of a stretch

[muted valley]

I also assumed coc wasn't a genetic thing from birth rather a personality trait thing one has which is kinda decided at birth. A strong independent will that the person has, which may not fully show its determination till later in life.

As we saw Ace and luffy both coc holders were very strong willed and determined when they wanted to do something. Luffy constantly talking about pirateKing, Ace same thing while also being independent showing his coc when he did the trait of Roger of defending his fam against Bluejam.

Seems coc is the manifestation of one's ability to be stronger and above in the pecking order than another.

[muted valley]

No no I agree, I was just adding on to Okamas post.

We got in a disagreement week or 2 ago cause I believe Ace hampered his coc by joining WB and having his personal ambition and opportunities hurt by being on WBs ship instead of actively seeking out the strongest to aim for the top, needing to show his willpower in all facets like he was doing prior.

[gray creek]

I’d argue that being unable to manifest it is effectively losing the ability. And if you lose whatever ambition or will that allowed you to manifest it in the first place, then you won’t access the haki or even know you had it if it’s not something you’ve used yet. For example, if Zoro decided becoming WSS was too hard after losing to Mihawk, he would have never known he had CoC, because his dream would be shattered.

The problem in using hypothetical examples like that, however, is that by virtue of having whatever traits give you CoC, it’s possible you’re just the type of person who wouldn’t back away from that goal in spite of whatever obstacle you face. My answer to that is that Kaido knew Luffy and Kid were conquerors and yet he tried to tame them anyways. If we assume that effort was genuine and either eventually did submit, it would make sense to me that having their will crushed would cut them off from their conquerors haki

[gray creek]

No I agree also lol I even personally subscribe to the idea that Ace submitting is why he never developed CoC, I just admit it’s more cracked of a theory than I usually like

[muted valley]

Thank you, and Okamas defense was Ace still fought strong people but I disagreed as it wasn't the same type of challenge and fight need he undertook under WB.

[muted valley]

I agree too, they can come back from it bit if they are crushed and their will broken they won't manifest it right and their potential is screwed.

Look at Crocodile, he got crushed by WB and was never the same. It took till luffy fought him and broke him outta Impel Down before he had a new lease on his will and drive that requires him going against stronger and dangerous odds.

[split glacier]

All people who were never meant to have it in the first place. Ace never "developed" ACoC because it's for the elite of the elite with the info given. Ace was a very DF dependant fighter and probably didn't even have high Haki in general. Reason he ended up as a donut. Dude didn't Haki his body at all, just took a full Magma punch like some noob. (I know Magma fruit is > Fire fruit) Moria never had it so I dunno what you on about there. Haki and Conq Haki are 2 completely different things. It's literally described as being chosen from the heavens. Not using something and losing are 2 different things as well. He only accidently used it as a kid. He didn't even know what happened when he did it. Such a rare ability people don't know how to use, focus, draw out just that easy. Never had a teacher, just WB to beat him up. Conq can't just be sensed like normal Haki unless you exude it.

If we are suggesting Kaido lost his ambition to be PK, Joyboy or whatever then he wouldn't have any type of Conq right now. Having the "will" to be something doesn't automatically give you powers. The vast majority of pirates want to be PK/find the One Piece, they ain't got it. You just can't obtain it by randomly deciding something.

[muted valley]

Lel Donut, but yes Ace never dealt with real haki users due to his logia. Even as we saw when he fought BB it was the first time he was actually hit in a long time. He wasn't used to needing haki, which is like you said.

I have an assumption that coc is trained through use and refinement. Where under extreme circumstances it'd be drawn out more and blossom. Like Rayleigh said with haki, and we seen with many fights. Which Ace joined WB early and lost his need to use it and was just living more cushy and relying on his df.

Also I'd say will to be pk extends well beyond wanting it like you said. Kinda like what extreme lengths and challenges will one take and how deep those feelings and desires go in them. Like Luffy it wasn't a whim, he's kept it since Shanks never faltering. While other norm pirates likley second guesses themselves, which shows they lack the willpower.

[pure raven]

You're exaggerating things. We know for a fact ace unlocked haki on his own while luffy needed rayleigh's help

[muted valley]

Wym "unlocked" and when was it stated he had a mastery of using it like Luffy could after training?

[pure raven]

And coc is having the will of a conqueror. King described it perfectly when he told zoro "so you have kingly ambitions too" so someone is either born with it or its gained through mentality and ambitions to stand above all.

[pure raven]

Did you read ace novel

[muted valley]

Nope, I'm sure many people here didnt

[pure raven]

Yeah well alot of useful facts were stated there i suggest u go read it. Its fun too

[pure raven]

Plus, where the hell was it stated that one can lose coc. Coc is gained by someone because their spirit is unbreakable

[muted valley]

Is it the same as the manga of ace that came out? With the writer?

[pure raven]

The manga is an adaptation of it. Not by oda tho its by another mangaka

Still canon too

[muted valley]

Just curious about story, I know it's not Oda but if it's a illustration of a cannon novel then I'll read it.

[pure raven]

Yeah i read the novel not manga

[muted valley]

I read the first chapter but havnt read the rest

[gray creek]

I don’t think anyone is suggesting Kaido lost his will. In the last chapter he told King he was going to change the world. That’s been consistent literally since he dropped out of the sky in his intro. Dude is still aiming to set the world ablaze.

Moria is just an example of someone who was competitive in the new world, and should have had haki, but didn’t in TB. He went through a demoralizing defeat that entirely reshaped him, so I’m just throwing that as a possibility since there’s no concrete example of someone losing haki.

Regardless, you’re 100% wrong. Having will does give you powers, or at least allows you to develop powers, through haki. It’s the entire explanation for the power system. Luffy is absolutely dwarfed by Kaido physically, but now that his attacks are literally powered by his ambition, Luffy is toe to toe with Kaido. Luffy has a will equal or greater than Kaido. It only follows if something happened to that will, your powers granted by it will diminish

[pure raven]

@gray creek

[ancient vault]

That still means its generic

[gray creek]

That’s the argument. We don’t know yet if that’s true. Kaido seemed pretty intent on breaking Luffy’s spirit.

[pure raven]

Its stated clearly by rayleigh that coc can be genetic. Dragon: "blood will tell" this is another proof

[pure raven]

Yeah it was to make luffy fight for him not make him lose coc

[ancient vault]

Its hereditary

[pure raven]

Not always. Zoro gained it

[ancient vault]

Zoro also seems to be a shimotsuki a descendant of ryuma

And ryuma 100% had coc

[gray creek]

CoC is tied to “kingly ambition”. If Luffy gives up on becoming PK and serves Kaido, do you think he could still use CoC?

[pure raven]

It was clear that zoro "gained" coc because of his kingly ambitions ur not paying attention

[ancient vault]

Didnt chin jao give up

[ancient vault]

What r u talking about? You cant have coc if ur not born with it

[gray creek]

Chin Jao is the wrench, yeah

[pure raven]

You people assuming coc can be lost is totally random where did you get this idea from

[ancient vault]

And he has it in his genes

[gray creek]

I just spelled out the reasoning

[muted valley]

I forgot to add "just genetic" but also that what I said about personality goes deep into the psychological debate stage at if personalities types are formed from birth.

[pure raven]

You dont pay attention to the anime do you. Repeat the scene with rayleigh

[ancient vault]

Jesus

[pure raven]

Gtg i have a warzone match to win brb

[ancient vault]

First of all. Manga > anime

[gray creek]

Nah swrml, dude dipped. Just talking to a wall now

[ancient vault]

Indeed

Sounded like he was trolling

[gray creek]

But yeah, Chin Jao is the best counter argument because if anyone should have lost it it would have been him. Best explanation is that we don’t know exactly what his kingly ambition was (even though it seemed obvious.) There are people like Rayleigh who break the pattern on what we expect for CoC users

[pure raven]

Im back i lost

[ancient vault]

Lol

[pure raven]

Anyways is that your excuse when you lose an argument

[ancient vault]

The manga clearly implies to have COC you need to be born with it. You cant unlock sth ur not born with

[split glacier]

1. You can't gain Conq Haki, you have it from birth. When it manifests is a different thing.
2. I never said Ace doesn't have Haki, I said he doesn't have good Haki. ie donut boi
   3.Having "will" to do something doesn't give you Conq Haki*
   Did Haki even exist when Moria fought SH? He's a bum anyways. He got beat up and wasn't meant to be anything special.

You guys acting like you can just think "I wanna be the best" and you'll magically gain all the abilities. Some people are bums and that's fine.

If you can obtain and lose Conq Haki then it's trash and not some ultra rare thing if can just think really hard and get it. Because that's what it really is lol.

[gray creek]

Well you never addressed my argument, so it can’t be said that I lost anything

[pure raven]

Ok imma bring the scene im talking ab and brb

[ancient vault]

Manga panels not anime

[ancient vault]

1. Correct
2. theres sn inherent problem or difficulty arguing about this cause oda decided to not show haki in ace
3. the idea existed snd i think at the point of thriller bark the basic concept were already thought out

[pure raven]

Why

[ancient vault]

Because oda wrote the manga not the anime. The anime is not canon

This is also a manga channel so use manga panels to support your ideas

To 3. i dolt think cadet was saying moria has conq.
But the idea that ones broken will denies you access to your haki is not that outstanding. Just theres no resl evidence cause chinjao exist

[split glacier]

Getting your ass whopped doesn't cut off your Haki lol

[slim ravine]

I believe King is the next strawhat.

[ancient vault]

I slso dont think being able to lose the ability to use COC makes it trash

[ancient vault]

Its more than that tho. Breaking someones will is a mental thing real conquerors usually dont under go because they stay resistant until they die

So if a conqueror gets his will broken i think he deservedly loses his ability to use conquerors haki

Oh

[gray creek]

I think we’re mainly disagreeing on a technicality. If a character can’t manifest haki, for whatever reason (because health seems to be a factor too) I’m saying that you’ve effectively lost it even though you technically have it. If you can regain whatever will gave you access to haki, because that is how it works, then you’d be able to use again.

You’re being reductive in that all it takes is believing in yourself or something and you’re a haki master, there’s obviously more to it than that. But step 1 is believing. Rayleigh said it’s an embodiment of your spirit and if you ain’t got none you ain’t got haki

[ancient vault]

At least conquerors

[pure raven]

Wtf

[ancient vault]

I just shocked his world

[placid kite]

Luffy?

[ancient vault]

Wdym luffy

[muted valley]

I believe that, but they can get it back.

I think of Crocodile as a example. He lost to WB and started underhanded schemes to get ontop while staying away from the NW. He doesn't have coc we know of but it's a good example on willpower. Mr1 said a related quote to him after Aces death when they read the newspaper about Lugfy ringing the bell at marineford.

[placid kite]

Luffy at marineford

[gray creek]

I think losing haki is a great way to get around reasons why Moria and Croc were so easy to beat, but that’s just speculation

[muted valley]

I also believe they can completely screw their coc potential if they take up positions that would remove them from how they would need/battle use of coc

[placid kite]

Crocodile doesn’t have conquerors

[gray creek]

No one is saying he does

[placid kite]

Crocodile got beaten by wet luffy

[fleet scroll]

Hello guys, i have a question that popped up in my mind. Does Elbaf belong to world government countries? If it doesnt, we know that giants are superstrong and i cant imagine a Giant that is a master in all haki types etc... , why cant they overthrow the world government and rule the world? idk if it is a stupid question but i really wonder..

[muted valley]

I 100% took it that way, they were not like peak them. They all underestimated luffy, treated him as a greenhorn who was unaware of what actually was in the world. That their true drive was gone and they were doing underhanded stuff to get ontop. Croc with broque works and ancient weapons, moria with zombies over actual crew/friends.

[muted valley]

No elbaf doesn't, it was shown and explained during Mother Caramel flashback. That the wg fears elbaf and giants and has a bad relationship with giants

I'd assume because Giants arnt that type of people, rather they have a warrior drive, so they fight but not to take over the world and expand.

[fleet scroll]

i agree with that giants arent emperialists but still idk they must have some kind of a hero persona like involves the D. clan theory or something

i really want to know more about elbaf man xD