manga-theories

[ancient vault]

Trynna be civil here but im gonna make myself some breakfast.

My point being is:

Sengoku was given context because it was helpful here having these people understand their decisions. It was simply a nice gesture nothing more as these people would have followed either way. It was also to unterstand the severity of this situation.

Sengoku in his years as a fleet admiral couldnt have told them about it as he was bounded by his responsibility and duty to his role being loyal to the WG since this was a taboo topic. It also wouldnt have been relevant so why focus on telling a dead mans tale?

[vivid forum]

like there isn't a lot of reason to assume sengoku is lying about this, it's either stuff that happened or didn't, it's not like he got into their motives or why xebec wanted to pull this job

[muted ember]

We don't know what type of Marines they were. For example, one of them questioned why Garp wouldn't want to protect the celestials. If that Marine were to learn about the nature of what he's protecting, would he still?

[ancient vault]

Its only just 1) and maybe that whitebeard betrayed rocks but that was sth i started within the discussion of 1) (and that xebecs was evil)
With that im gonna make myself some breakfast now. Cya

[abstract pond]

Which will mean Hiyori has some kind of power/devil fruit to cure wounds.

[muted ember]

They weren't healed they were just bandaged up I think

[ancient vault]

If they were just bandaged up they wouldnt have been able to fight again after barely escaping death on the roof

[supple coyote]

[split hornet]

She helped Zoro the same way

[normal imp]

Best chapter of the year

What a way to end it

[split hornet]

Can't wait for the anime

[normal imp]

Zoro is the supreme King, best character of all the anime

[split hornet]

Get it right he's the king of hell 😜

[muted ember]

I mean they were bandaged up, I imagine if she had healing powers some of their injuries would be gone. Plus they only fought base Kaido, they could have just been temporarily koed like Luffy on the roof

[ancient vault]

They got bodied by base kaido you mean lol. Obviously kaido didnt need hybrid form to destroy them 1vs9

Also she could have other powers that give you back power or sth but doesnt straight up magically heal you like the tontatta one.

[muted ember]

Yea they got bodied but Kaido didn't care to kill them, getting them down was enough it seems

[abstract pond]

Didn't Law roomed them out of there? Kaido was likely going to kill them. He respected Oden on his own way.

[ancient vault]

Yeah he was gonna kill them. And they were arguably gonna die if left alone

[muted ember]

Law did room them but they were just laying there while Kaido moved the island. He could have been killed them by the time Law showed up. Big Mom and Kaido literally just watched Luffy pick up Kinemon

[abstract pond]

They both looked surprised how fast Luffy reached Kinemon and Kaido was already going for Luffy

[ancient vault]

This is a dead argument. Lets just stop it and move on to another topic
Theres no reason to really argue about this

[muted ember]

No they weren't lol they were surprised Luffy casually walked past them

[split glacier]

I wonder what Kaido goal/dream really is. Does he really want to be PK? Does he just want destruction? Is he waiting for the new Joy Boy? It seems he had Joy boy knowledge before Wano. Does he know the true history? Where is the island that inhabits Oni?

[night pendant]

He wants to die

[split glacier]

The reasoning behind the that is the question. We know that but there's something behind that. He's not just suicidal...

[muted ember]

Onigashima means land of Oni so they should be from there, but it may not be the original location if Wano is the country Oars created

[split glacier]

Wasn't it renamed?

[muted ember]

Oh that's right

[ancient vault]

I doubt thats his actual dream.

A world of violence war and being joyboy or finding joyboy sounds like sth reasonable

But then theres also the part where he talked about wano being special and onis

[muted ember]

That's another plot line that has yet to pay off

[ancient vault]

yeah

[ancient vault]

I think his actual dream is just that great great war and a glorious death. But then there are the driving factors like joyboy, his race if oni is a race or simply his heritage, wanos history etc.

[modest skiff]

My take on it is that the people of Wano defeated Oni in the past and Kaido essentially took over their land to recreate what they destroyed

But I think he is mainly in Wano itself for Joyboy

[muted ember]

Since we're on the topic of Onigashima I have a theory about the skull. We don't know Sanjuan Wolf df, but I think he's a giant that ate a giant fruit. I think the skull belongs to Oars II, and he was an ancient giant who ate an ancient giant fruit

[split glacier]

Oars the 1st?

[muted ember]

The 2nd

[sinful helm]

I always thought his df is battleship df sanjuans that is

[modest skiff]

That’s a cool idea but I’m still more inclined to think the dude was truly that huge. My ideal scenario is that after the raid, they explore the innards of the body to find one or more glyphs

[split glacier]

Isn't the 2nd what Moria has/had?

[modest skiff]

I’ve been assuming the skull is the person who was Zunesha’s original keeper

[sinful helm]

Or another of Zunisha,s kind

[muted ember]

The story implies that was Oars the 1st, bc he died 500 years ago and the Oars we know, the 3rd is only 72

[muted ember]

This might be better than what I just said lol

[modest skiff]

The part that I have trouble with is how the skull could relate to Zunesha’s punishment. I am assuming Zunesha was either forced or convinced to betray someone or the AK itself and thus sentenced to eternal wandering. But if the large skull is from someone who sacrificed their life assembling Wano, I’d assume that giant was one of the ones originally commanding Zunesha. So then why is Momo able to control Zunesha? It would imply Momo is the descendant of the enormous skull, but that doesn’t make much sense. None of my theories on Kozuki/skull/Zunesha are satisfactory for me so far

[muted ember]

My theory for zunesha's command is an awakened Kibi dango user

Such that the command would last even after that person died

[modest skiff]

So Zunesha betrayed someone associated with that devil fruit user, but Wano were the ones who were their keeper? I dunno, nothing seems to quite fit

It’s a good idea that the kibi dango has something to do with it in some way though

[split glacier]

Maybe Uranus ties into this somehow. With people thinking Momo is Uranus, him having the ability to control Zunesha. Whether it's a "title" like Poseidon and it's something that comes every x amount of years

[muted ember]

Maybe the original user was evil and Zunesha was an ally to the ancient kingdom, but I haven't gotten that far in putting the theory together

[split glacier]

Elbaf gaints are "human" giants for a lack of better term. Oars is an abnormal giant from another country that isn't Elbaf and Little Oars is just a "normal" different type of giant. Onis look similar to Oars' race but are "mini" giants. Who was sleeping with who? lol

[amber oar]

All of them want to be PK, but very few understand what means being PK

Interestingly, those who know/knew (WB, Shanks) have been gatekeeping for the promised one

[gusty needle]

Imagine a giant with the quake fruit

[obtuse siren]

Now I just have a crack pot theory that Dragon is a Lunarian or part Lunarian

[gusty needle]

Realistically speaking there should be giants that either rival or exceed yonkos. They live to 300+, prioritize combat and have immense physical ability. A giant with a power df + CoC Haki should be on another level

Luffys strongest attacks are meant to immitate giants + Haki. Can’t imagine many characters taking multiple giant attacks embed with CoCting

For example, a giant with an ancient zoan or mythical zoan fruit and CoC would be OP given the durability boost plus raw offensive power

[split glacier]

Because of the face tattoo...?

[bitter kraken]

The giants we’ve seen so far have been pretty underwhelming, if there is one that’s a monster in combat it will have to be Loki that’s how he stands above other giants

[jade moon]

He always wears a cloak..as if he hides wings under his cloak…

[split glacier]

Because you wouldn't be able to see the bulge of wings from wearing a cloak.

[obtuse siren]

Yes kek

[bitter kraken]

He could be half lunarian, which would be why he has no wings. That would mean luffy is part lunarian too and that’s the real reason he can use fire in red hawk fire 🔥

[split glacier]

So Garp is Lunarian too

[bitter kraken]

Let’s say garp is human and dragons mom would be lunarian?

[split glacier]

But no white hair, wings (even if mini), red eyes or dark skin he inherited from his mother?

[tacit veldt]

I have no theory attached to this, but i want to say that Kaido surely had the conqueror's eyes back when he recruited King. I thought that kind of spirit was broken in him when God Valley happened, but that's not the case. It seems like being at the top is what extinguished the fire in his eyes for so long

[obtuse siren]

This is honestly pretty believable

[obtuse siren]

Also it’s entirely based on the tattoo and is completely crackpot. I do not pronounce it to be truth.

[split glacier]

I don't like the idea personally of "losing/extinguishing the will/desire" Conq cos it also implies you gain it rather than "blessed/chosen from the heavens" or however it's put. He's always had it, it's just dormant until awoken but i don't think it goes back to sleep or something

[split glacier]

Ah okay lol. You aren't really born with a tattoo. Someone said Dragon's tattoo is poneglyphs related and how he only has 3 visible red squares, he's hiding the 4th or knows where it is.

[ancient vault]

Uh the fruit could simply be called "growth" fruit or sth which basically increases your size by a 100 times. I dont think a giant fruit existed

I've thought about that idea before as well but i still dont buy that that skull is real

[placid kite]

Theory: Luffy loses to Kaido again but not in the way you think, as luffy is about to beat kaido he will be knocked out by big mom, who had just finished Kidd and law off and went to where the main fight was going. Kaido, seeing this as another time a defeat was taken away from him, will break off his alliance w big mom and Kaido in a attempt to kill her for interfering, triggering the kaido flashback to understand why he is like that

[muted ember]

There's a human fruit, why can't there be a giant fruit?

[eternal lark]

This might have already been discussed, but kinda curious on the cliffhanger left after the Reverie aftermath. Is there a high chance Vivi going kaput or for both Sabo and Vivi alike? Or could it be something like Vivi died from Sabo's friendly fire whilst trying to save Kuma?

[frozen roost]

I think it's fake news by world gov or wapol to make the rev army look bad

[placid kite]

Vivi is not getting of screened stop the cap

[muted ember]

I think whatever im has planned requires Vivi alive her picture was the only one undamaged

[frozen roost]

Or so people think shes dead so they wont look for her

[silk drift]

Maybe there is a fruit for every race?

[eternal lark]

It's kinda true that no major characters have yet died off screen, but dunno with the hype they created with the cliffhanger. Thought like an exception this time that someone's gone kingdom come.

[placid kite]

Is Im a Nefertari?

[split glacier]

King of Alabasta killed, Vivi attempted murder, Sabo blamed for this and "killed" (Not really dead?). Ivan says it's not like Sabo to do this, i doubt die is what he means so that could be talking about the murder attempts on King and Vivi. Dadan cries about just finding out he was alive so that implies death, no?
CP0 wanting to shut Big News up and write something different makes it confusing tho. Wouldn't the WG want a story like that to be spread?
Just guessing

[frozen roost]

If there is a giant fruit teach would know about it 🤔

[muted ember]

I doubt it since the Celestials consider them all traitors, but anything is possible

[placid kite]

Maybe Im sees themselves in vivi and is jealous

[frozen roost]

Ruler of the world is jealous of a princess of a desert?

[placid kite]

yeah

why else she got her poster, u can be powerful and still insecure they aren’t mutually exclusive

[split glacier]

Seems petty for what seems to be a very long plan

[frozen roost]

[placid kite]

Im cutting up posters is mad sketch

[frozen roost]

Maybe Im has anger issues

[placid kite]

ur telling me that is part of the plan? Lmao

[frozen roost]

Ruling the world and choosing people to die is a lot if stress bro

[placid kite]

clearly something up w Im emotionally how can u tend to a garden and violently destroy posters

[frozen roost]

Stress

[split glacier]

Yeah killing people that house ancient weapons and pose a threat to your reign as king is a part of the plan.

[placid kite]

mad sketch, destroying bounty posters like that

[frozen roost]

Cavendish did it to luffys

[placid kite]

look at him he’s got like a condition

[daring fossil]

So if King's name is King Arthur does that mean that Queen's name is going to be Queen Guinevere?

[muted ember]

It happened in the manga?

[placid kite]

Queen was born queen

[frozen roost]

King is his current name Albert was his name before he joined kaido

[placid kite]

Albert is his name? 😂

[frozen roost]

They arent combined

[daring fossil]

Yeah but when it's a pun then it works well.

[muted ember]

I wonder if Judge is his real name

[frozen roost]

Oh that was joke

[daring fossil]

Judge Judy

[ancient vault]

Because we already know san jusn is a normal giant

[muted ember]

Yea i said that but he's way bigger than any normal giant

[daring fossil]

If the Human Human fruit just made me taller if I ate it I think I would be dissapointed

[muted ember]

He's almost 600 ft as opposed to 70

[split glacier]

Sounds like a giant-giant fruit to me

[muted ember]

I think u would just be more human

[ancient vault]

Thats why i said he has the groth fruit that lets him make himself bigger or sth like that

[daring fossil]

Couldn't imagine that your fruit stays active after your death like that.

Have we seen a Zoan user turning back to their original form after dying yet?

[split glacier]

Hmm...It says he has an unknown paramecia so it can't be Zoan/Giant fruit i guess unless Oda changes it later or if the "wiki" is wrong

[ancient vault]

What i said was a paramecia

[muted ember]

No zoan users have died I don't think

But the jailer beasts were awakened zoans they stayed in their forms even when defeated

[limpid holly]

i think that Dragon might be Lunarian which make luffy half Lunarian, that would explain how Luffy managed to create fire that goes with some of his attacks

[muted ember]

Idk what the vivre card says in Japanese but Library of Ohara translation just says he uses a devil fruit

[split glacier]

Either is possible then. I prefer the Giant Giant fruit explanation in that scenario

[muted ember]

I just looked it up it does say paramecia

[split glacier]

Then it's Growth Growth fruit lol

[fluid wren]

um guys, can we do a little mythical zoan devil fruit ideas

[muted ember]

Maybe the person with the skull at the same fruit then

Or maybe there's two different fruits w similar powers like the kilo kilo and ton ton fruits

I know it's a possibility that the skull is fake. The reason I think it's real is bc Wano has a tradition of marking graves w swords

[gusty needle]

Haven’t seen any insect fruits yet

[lyric berry]

? tontattas had a couple insect fruits

theres also some smile insect fruit users if you count that

[split glacier]

Black Maria isn't classed as one either right?

[gusty needle]

Ah that hornet tonatta was a df user

[cyan berry]

Black Maria is an ancient spider fruit so

why wouldnt it count

[lyric berry]

id count her

[gusty needle]

Had chalked it up as some weird tonatta stuff

[lyric berry]

lol tontattas were a weird plot point so i dont blame you

[cyan berry]

why's that

they're just a different race in OP

like giants or fishmen

[pure raven]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[split glacier]

It's not even albert

[muted ember]

I hate to be that guy but spiders aren't insects lol

[wary fossil]

would that make sanji lunarian?

[cyan berry]

no

they list out every Lunarian feature in this chapter

Sanji doesnt have white hair, he doesnt have black wings, and he doesnt have dark skin

he also cant manipulate fire like King can

[split glacier]

But from the experimenting King had on him, there's a possibility that there's some sort of either Lunarian genes within sanji or it's DF related.

[muted ember]

I'm a believer in Sanji having Lunarian lineage factor but King not having curly eyebrows killed it for me

[cyan berry]

what

genetics dont work like that

the curly eyebrows are a Vinsmoke trait

[lyric berry]

i just felt like dressrosa had a lot goin on. toys, tontattas, royals, tourney etc. nothing against them specifically

[split glacier]

Judge and momma Sanji have normal eyebrows

[cyan berry]

heres the thing

[placid kite]

A neat little parallel, the flame behind King’s head pays homage to saint halo in many art pieces of Christianity specifying Jesus and his Saints. Perhaps cementing the Lunarians as the gods of the past

[cyan berry]

we never actually see Judge's eyebrows

he's always wearing that dumbass helmet

[split glacier]

If you google Judge's face, you can see blonde eyebrows

[lyric berry]

i dont think his eyebrows are important

theyd just be normal brows. the swirly ones are for genetically altered people

[split glacier]

And the swirl eyebrow makes people believe it's DF related

[lyric berry]

mebe

[split glacier]

I would say less just genetically altered in a broad sense and more DF related since the Germa fodder clones don't have swirly eyebrows but who knows

[muted ember]

We saw Sora had regular eyebrows too, plus switching sides w his exoskeleton is a pretty good indicator it's related to his modifications

[sand sail]

@pure raven I really wish people would read the channel description before posting though

[ancient vault]

Thats exactly why I think it fakes

I made a long ass theory a year ago on why kaido is from wano

Never really finished it only posted bits here and there

[muted ember]

So u think the skull is a tomb or something?

But then why is the sword so huge?

[ruby depot]

sanji mom a third eye

[wide lagoon]

Yo??

[ruby depot]

three eye her third eye was never shown that how she saw how to counteract judge she was no scientist

pudding reminds him of his mom

[ancient vault]

Let me repost real quick

[ruby depot]

:close your eye for strength judge found out

[ruby depot]

joyboy

or his nemesis

[lyric berry]

bro what are you talking about

[mighty sinew]

Can we say theory about last chapter?

[ancient vault]

Or actually I’ll summarize it.

• i think the skull used to be a giant mountain. My proof for that is the rock like elements inside, ontop and around the skull
• Kaido is a huge oars fanboy. Or hes paying respect ro his ancestors
• he commissioned the legendary carpenter in wano to turn the mountain into a skull castle
• they forged the sword in honor of oars (or who ever that ancient giant is) legend
• its shimotsuki culture. The eternal graves theyre called. Its a ringo tradition
  -> thats why i theorized that kaido might have ties to wano and in particular to the shimotsuki clan
  (I even theorized hes born and/or dies in ringo for other reasons)
• so i think kaido came up with the design idea

The actual theory is way longer than this but yh i was never 100% sure where exactly I was going with my idea here

[mighty sinew]

I have one cooler about Onigashima. Onigashima fits perfect in the top of mount Fuji. Centuries ago they were together but something cut his head

[ancient vault]

Especially when I misunderstood timeline

[lyric berry]

what is everyone's egg theory? (from rogers ship)

[muted ember]

Somebody in here said a Roc and now that's my theory too

[lyric berry]

Rocks?

[ancient vault]

Roc is a mythical hawk basically lol

[lyric berry]

oh wtf

ima look that up

[tired osprey]

real dragon, the ones the experiement in ph are based of

[pure raven]

kinda think it was just literally a room on the ship in the shape of an egg. maybe a nursery or something because they had kids on the ship alot.

[split glacier]

Also the punch Luffy did on Kaido at the start of roof piece

[lyric berry]

? wdym

[split glacier]

Red Roc instead of Red hawk is what luffy used on kaido and everyone was going crazy because someone finally damaged kaido after all them attempts

[lyric berry]

oh interesting

[split glacier]

So Hawk < Roc < whatever bird is bigger lol

[ancient vault]

My tama theory

[inner vector]

all onigashima fights were really cool

can't wait for raizo vs conehead

[ruby depot]

my guy it not the only one that size

there are other skulls around

[ancient vault]

where is a skull that big around lol

[inner vector]

do you think BM and Kaido will go down in this arc?

[ancient vault]

yes

[inner vector]

or Oda will save one for the last war? I think one of these two will probably survive

after Wano Luffy will have few worthy opponents at his level (BB, Sakazuki, Im)

[ancient vault]

kaidos going down this arc and big mom is not important enough to be kept for the final war

[inner vector]

i'm not sure 100% about kaido, i want to see more of him

but i'm tired of BM

[muted ember]

I would love this too and it fits Oda

[zinc jasper]

I wonder who’ll take care of the cp0 cuz I know drake and appo can’t

Maybe Sanji or jimbei

[inner vector]

sanji is done lad

i think yamato, drake and appo can tank them and then run

with brook and nico help

[vivid forum]

would really like to see robin go up against cp, I feel like she should have a grudge against them

[junior cape]

Sanji is down for the count. The stress of the Germa transformation coupled with the punishment dealt by Queen has literally caused him to pass out on his feet, and I doubt he's gonna get up any time soon. Zoro is about to go down as well, since his meds have a time limit before they stop fighting the pain, and start amping it. Next chapter, Zoro is gonna be a screaming howling mess of agony. CP0 will be dealt with by Apoo and Drake, because Brook and Robin are just RUNNING from them since they're out of steam, so they will not help out. As for HOW CP0 will be taken out, I cannot say, but I think it's likely either Drake or Apoo will die, but CP0 will be taken out with them; this matchup is actually pretty even, all things considered. Next, Big Mom will go down, one way or another. If she doesn't, she'll kill everyone on the island before it goes boom. Yamato and Fuga are otherwise occupied making sure the island DOESN'T go boom, so they won't be much help either. The Vassals are all spread out, doing various tasks, but Izo and Marco were headed to the fire demon earlier, so they may help Yamato put it out, or kill it.

[late token]

Anyone else thinks kaido thought he will be the next joyboy and is depressed now bc he understands that he isnt? Got those vibes from the young kaido in kings flashback

[opal sparrow]

Katakuri > king.
Katakuri truly showed how strong a yonko commander was with his cracked out observation haki and he beat tf outta of luffy. He has advance amarment , awakened DF , Coc and cracked out observstion haki

[tardy pumice]

Before the current chapter, I thought when Kaido said, "You couldn't become Joy Boy either" he was referring to other people he's defeated. I was thinking he somehow was trying to become an obsticle to a potential joy boy, because of whatever he found out while in the ROCKs crew. But now I understand what he meant. Kaido tried to become joy boy HIMSELF and FAILED. This raises so many questions, I don't even know where to start.

[zinc jasper]

Hmm the cp0 are supposed to be the strongest government intelligence. So they should be yonk commander level… most likely

[zinc jasper]

Hmm most likely

[zinc jasper]

I also think king > kata but with extreme diff

[severe ice]

In the recent chapter I realized that Kaido and Roger's will are very similar more specifically in the King's Flashback. His Power hasn't been enough and that's what makes him cry a lot.

[zinc jasper]

Hmmm interesting theory

[placid kite]

i agree king doesnt even have coc

i think katakuri is portrayed as the strongest commander that the strawhats have faced so far

[opal sparrow]

Facts people act like older arcs means weaker characters

I have donflamingo beating any of the tobbi roppo

[tawdry bramble]

Agreed non of them would be a threat to him.

Doflamingo may have even been able to beat Jack

But maybe not. Cracker probably would have beaten Doflamingo and I feel like jack would beat Cracker

[opal sparrow]

Okok so cracker vs donflamingo

[pure raven]

The only reason King is weaker and the tobi roppo is cause the straw hats dealt with them.

[tawdry bramble]

Matchups can be odd sometimes.

[opal sparrow]

Yup cuz zoro could beat cracker easy imo

He would cut thru his cracker

[tawdry bramble]

Zoro now beats every commander

Except maybe Beckman. We don’t know enough.

[opal sparrow]

Zoro vs Katakuri. I have Zoro wining but very extreme diff

[sand sail]

You're gonna have to stop talking about it here

This channel isn't for random powerscaling, you can talk about this in #also-manga or #manga

[junior cape]

So King just lost a wing, along with the fight. Zoro isn't gonna last much longer, since Enma is killing him and his meds are about to putter out. What's up for debate is what happens next. Personally, I think King will suffer the same fate as Queen, and fall to the Wano Mainland, unconscious and bleeding out. As soon as Zoro confirms that King isn't gonna be a threat anymore, he's gonna start suffering like mad.

I imagine it'll be like the aftermath of Thriller Bark, where he nearly dies from the pain, and blood everywhere, but someone will save him.

[split glacier]

Sanji won but passed out and the same immediately for Zoro. I don't think he's gonna need "saving" more than just being outta commission/exhausted.

[pure raven]

Zoro was almost done for after the rooftop fight (Law also mentioned that its a miracle that he's still alive)
After the meds effect rolls off his pain will be twice as much as before... can't imagine how he'll survive that ... He's shown great resilience and endurance throughout the story, but this time its not just a wound he got while fighting cp9 officers.. its fricking yonkous he took damage against, and a 1st mate commander ... Eager to see how Oda will handle that.. I think a simple nap won't safe him this time

Also did you already theorize the similarity King has with Viper?(look wise) Could the Birka Tribe be somehow related to the Lunarians

[ancient vault]

They could also be from the moon since theyre winged

[jade moon]

He is shandian isn’t he?

[tacit veldt]

It quite clearly is

[ancient vault]

yes

[pure raven]

Who were the Birka than ?

[jade moon]

Enel is birkan

[pure raven]

Ah ok but enel has no wings

[tacit veldt]

Both the Sky people Enel came from and the ancient civilization on the moon

They have the same name

[ancient vault]

enel has a ring of drums instead

[jade moon]

Then who are those regular winged people?

They are just skypien?

[pure raven]

But the shandorians were originally from the blue sea .. they werent living on the sk before

[ancient vault]

yes

[tacit veldt]

Other descendants of the original Brikans that came down from the Moon. All sky people are

[ancient vault]

Theyre called skypieans

[pure raven]

So Birkans , Skypians and Lunarians

[tacit veldt]

Shandorians had wings and so did skypeans and birkans (see young urouge)

[pure raven]

All races with wings

[ancient vault]

No theres. Skypieans, Birkans and Shandorians. Then theres Lunarians who we dont know where theyre from aside from the land of god

[jade moon]

There’s again weatheria…

[pure raven]

Hmm ok

[tacit veldt]

I think it's something like Birkans on the Moon were Lunarians who coming down to Earth branched out in various winged people

[jade moon]

Ever wondered if dragon has wings?

His cloak sure looks to be hiding something

Plus those marks

[tacit veldt]

I mean, Birkans are winged people who descend from the Moon. Lunarians have that name that leaves little to imagination

It's plausible

[pure raven]

Hmm its really intriguing.. Oda didn't tease any birkan or shandorian being able to use fire ... so the Lunarians must be unique.. I also dont believe that he'll elaborate on them any more ... whats following next must be a deep look into Kaidos past ..

[ancient vault]

I think he will. Because I believe god valley might also be tied to it

[tacit veldt]

I'm certain Lunarians will be very important in the future

[pure raven]

How do you connect that with God Valley? Because of its title ?

Could also be connected to elbaf

[ancient vault]

Old theory of mine. I believe it was like a god race zoo which the celestial attended regularly. Several other "God" races including the dragon race was there

[tacit veldt]

Well the God in God Valley is a about Celestial Dragons

[pure raven]

Hmmmm

[tacit veldt]

But Lunarians were called Gods and lived where the new Gods live now. So there's surely something to be told there

[ancient vault]

The celestial dragons kept all "God" races prisoned there to demonstrate their power and dominance as the "real gods"

[pure raven]

Hmmm that sounds plausible since its no coincidence why they were there at that time and needed protection

Nice theory mate

[tacit veldt]

I expect God Valley to be something like the CD's summer residence

[ancient vault]

Pretty sure its heavily guarded as well since these races are dangerous and xebecs trying to get a hold of these powerful races makes sense imo.

[tacit veldt]

Or a colony

[ancient vault]

Basically this and I believe they came back regularly like a ritual

[pure raven]

Why would Rocks attack their summer residence

[ancient vault]

because 1. he can kill celestial dragons there 2. there are powerful races

[tacit veldt]

Well they kept a very important thingie in their Summer residence. Also their HQ Is on top of a mountain, better attack the beaches first

[pure raven]

Thinking about this makes me shiver down my spine ... I'm not ready to read about the slaughter and punishment done by the CD.. theres definitely more cruelty Oda will show when the time comes ... starting with Kaidos Flashback

[tacit veldt]

We got a taste this chapter

I doubt what they were doing on Albert in Punk hazard was pleasant

[pure raven]

Me neither.. but he seemed unharmed.. They weren't successful on him

[ancient vault]

that was endurance testing

Now imagine if they simply dont care and just want to kill you

[vivid forum]

anyone else think one of the cds that got saved at god valley was probably doflamingo's dad

[ancient vault]

I doubt any CD on that island left the island with a good impression of pirates or other humans

I dont have a reason but I dont see doffys dad being there

im not sure but I think doffys dad was always down to earth

[vivid forum]

I don't have anything to support this theory but I suspect whatever happened on god valley was divisive and that was one of the reasons the wg wanted it kept on the downlow. I could see it as a real eye-opener for more naive cds based on what king's flashback looked like, esp if the marines had to work with other pirates to deal with the situation

hence doflamingo's dad and/or maybe mom potentially being there

[manic relic]

I think that vegapunks new experiment of SSG will also contain Kings endurance

King best endurance of all Yonko commanders

[tardy pumice]

If they showed us the cruelty of these experiments, this manga would become a sainen instead of a shounen.

[ancient vault]

seinen piece for a while would be pretty cool

[ruby depot]

Kadio knows about sky islands golden bell maybe the shandia were rivals to kings race face tatts they both have of their tribe

anyone knows what the people of shandi got their face tats for

is it related to the last island

did king show kadio his races poneglyph

[gusty needle]

Any thoughts on franky upgrading his body using sea stone post raid

[split glacier]

Smart idea, don't think he'll do it.

[ruby depot]

[amber oar]

I like to think he would but he would have done it before the raid to show up his powerup

[gentle lily]

Does King's tattoo look like a shandorian's?

[zinc jasper]

Cracker with mid to high diff, probs mid

[white cedar]

now that u mention it, they do have similar skin tones

[modest skiff]

My first thought was Dragon's. But I don't think they are the same. If I was to make assumptions beyond what is reasonable, I would see Dragon's face tattoos as indicating a rank above that of King. But that's entirely baseless

[novel wolf]

What rank is Mike Tyson???

[pure raven]

my personal theory - Im-sama is actually a pirate who has the ambition of taking over the world and the 5 gorosei + shanks knows this. I think that im-sama is using the Navy for its advantage to counter the yonkos.

Guys do you remember the time doffy gave a speech about who conquers the sea?during that he also says "no.....ITS THE NAVY WHO CONQUERS THE SEA"and he also says that "you know which throne I am talking about"what I think is this throne isn't something imaginary it's the empty throne

no i think he was talking about his toilet i think he was gonna go conquer the bathroom

[azure maple]

After the current chapter, it doesn't look like the tragedy that corresponds to the 3rd act will be bc of the beast pirates. Does anyone have theories about what it will be? The only thing I can think of is if Big Mom goes ballistic or the WG has an ace that they deploy

[modest skiff]

@iron mesa

1. I think BB thinks he is Joyboy. I think his only goal is to destroy the CDs

2. I think BB is trying to emulate Xebec and I think Xebec was more similar to Luffy than any other character in the series. I think he wanted absolute freedom while also being similar to Luffy. Here is my example

"Luffy, you are a hero"

"I am not a hero. Heroes give meat to other people. I want meat for myself."

I think Xebec didn't care what happens after the CDs are destroyed so long as they all die. If everyone has freedom, even if it turns out poorly, it is still good because it is due to freedom

3. I only think the rev army will fight BB if they think BB allies with the CDs. That won't happen

4. No idea about FMI. I really have zero explanation about that other than him destroying Marie Joie and it causing FMI to evacuate

[iron mesa]

Interesting. Thank you for your comments

[versed hamlet]

this one : ?

[iron mesa]

I never thought of xebec being so similar to Luffy tbh, that's a very interesting parallel

[modest skiff]

3rd act in japanese culture does not require tragedy. It requires climax. It could be positive or negative. Tragedy is not guaranteed.

[modest skiff]

WB would never join a villain. If WB joined, he isn't a bad dude

[iron mesa]

Ah, yes yes

So why do you think he went after the CDs?

[gray creek]

I also think Xebec has been misportrayed by Sengoku, but not for this reason. It could also be that Xebec was just that strong of a dude to force Newgate into his group

[wet tapir]

I mean people can change lol

[gray creek]

Newgate’s ambition was the same from the outset

[copper frost]

Joining the Rocks pirates most likely was just a stepping stone to forming his own crew for Whitebeard

[modest skiff]

800 years of,

1. Being able to kidnap and rape any woman, whether royal or not

2. CDs use slaves to move escalators and floors until they die. They have likely killed millions of people through slave labor alone

3. CDs prevent individual islands from forging their own destiny

4. CDs participated in genocide, at the very least Lunarian. I think its possible Xebec was Lunarian

5. So if this went on for 800 years, no one else was making progress. It was time for someone to up the ambition

[azure maple]

How old was whitebeard when he joined?

[iron mesa]

Ah. Yeah. They're bad guys

[modest skiff]

WB was hyper focused on having a loving family both BEFORE and AFTER joining Xebec. He was the same person throughout. We only have reason to think WB has always been well intended

[copper frost]

The God Valley Incident was 38 years ago, he would've been 74 if he were still alive now so he would've been around 35-36 when he joined

I don't think the Rocks Pirates lasted much long and did all the damage it could in a short amount of time

[wet tapir]

Lol like the Straw Hats

[copper frost]

Yep, like the Strawhats, exactly. Like an inverse version of the Strawhats in a way, wreaking havoc to deliberately cause damage and destruction

[modest skiff]

Strong disagree. I think they only cared about dethroning CDs and rather than intentionally causing destruction, they didn't care about destruction, because momentary destruction for the sake of destroying 800 years of totalitarian genocide is extremely worth it

[wet tapir]

Why did Roger stop them then

[modest skiff]

He was a coward

[azure maple]

Either Roger was misguided or he saw at Laugh Tale that it wasn't the right time to overthrow the current order

[copper frost]

No I don't think Rocks was concerned about any damage he caused with his crew, they were going about trying to dismantle the system through seeking taboo topics and also by wreaking destruction wherever they went, it's called a reign of terror for a reason, and Kaido seemingly imbibed the same values from Rocks to seek wanton destruction to engulf the world in chaos to find the One Piece. They were indulging in wanton destruction

[gray creek]

This was waaay pre laugh tale

[azure maple]

Oops my b

I need to brush up on my timelines before theorycrafting

[copper frost]

We don't know enough about the Rocks Pirates to know what their motivations entirely were, but through the information we already have, they wrought destruction wherever they went and didn't seem to have concern for any consequences. Rocks Pirates caused widespread ruin enough for even the world government to wipe out the threat and to wipe them all out from history so much so that not many people even remember the reign of terror

[modest skiff]

Here's what we know:

1. WB dreams of having a large family

2. BM dreams of having a society where all races coexist

3. When Kaido was younger and rescued king he wanted to "change the world"

4. The WG killed the entire Ohara population because they were pursuing truth

5. The Navy tries to hide people in level 6 of Impel Down because knowledge of their endeavors would threaten the WG

One group seeks unity. The other group seeks suppression of knowledge. I don't have a hard time deciding which I think are the good guys in this scenario.

[copper frost]

I'm talking about the crew itself and the destruction they wrought as an entity and not the motivations of individual members and how they're approaching what they're doing for their motivations. Even if we look at them individually, we can see how twisted those motivations become in light of what Oda has showed us. BM's dream of creating a utopia came at the cost of Tottoland being an autocratic dictatorship under the control of an out of control tyrant who seeks information and alliances through the power of intimidation and assimilation by force. Kaido aimed to change the world when he was young and he believed he was the only one who can and it has led to the point at this point of time where he subjugated an entire country under his palm under the leadership of a puppet just a few years after what transpired in the flashback from the recent chapter and is willing to plunge the world in chaos to find the ancient weapons and to bring an entire country to become a pirate paradise. These people having learned under the Rocks pirates and their experiences to gain power and to seek destruction to further their own goals of finding the One Piece and becoming the pirate king. WG is the greater evil sure but let's not assume the Rocks pirates didn't commit any such acts as well

[modest skiff]

I don't want to derail this conversation too much, but one of my best friends is autistic and I see BM as an autistic person (with an anger problem) trying to accomplish a noble goal. I view BM and Kaido as people who are fundamentally broken and are trying to perpetuate the will of their previous leader. Both have had very inaccurate/clumsy way of accomplishing Xebec's goal

[copper frost]

Yeah even so, Big Mom is too far gone in terms of being power hungry, I don't think that is much of a justification for her perpetuating so much destruction over the years. She was raised in a wrong way and by the time she joined the rocks pirates she was already a powerful presence on the seas sailing as an adult, she and her children alongside Streusen did establish a massive empire built on forceful assimilation and espionage and information gathering, Big Mom wasn't necessarily too young by the time she joined the crew and had all the ideas for the kind of reality she wanted to envision and sought out the ways to achieve them

[modest skiff]

I had a long conversation about this with bean/Tray/swrml/meek, if you care to read it @copper frost , it can be found here #manga-theories message

[modest skiff]

Without getting too much into the details, if BM did all of the things you described, for the purpose of destroying 800 years of slavery and rape, she was an extremely noble and ethical person. I see it as simply the trolley problem

[copper frost]

Again, this is not a conversation about who did more wrong tho, it's a conversation about the Rocks pirates wreaking wanton destruction opposed to the Strawhats who wrought destruction not to dismantle anything but in pursuit of selfless causes

[modest skiff]

I don't think you have reason to assume wanton destruction

[copper frost]

Let's agree to disagree then

[modest skiff]

Agreed, we'll get the Xebec flashback eventually. We'll know the answer once that happens

[copper frost]

We've put out our points in detail and it's just a case of different points of views until we have a concrete answer anyway

[modest skiff]

I think Xebec was more of an unhinged Luffy than a bond villain, but we'll see

Just to be clear, I don't think your perspective is unreasonable. My scale just tilts more towards "chaotic good" than "chaotic evil"

[vivid forum]

there might be some interesting parallels with luffy eventually destroying fishman island if you're right about that!

[copper frost]

I think Rocks was a mixture of the three Supernova, Law, Kid and Luffy. Seeking out answers like Law, wreaking havoc like Kid and living free unreigned like Luffy

[modest skiff]

I like that perspective and I hope it is true

Xebec would be my hero if that is true

[copper frost]

I think he would be an extreme version of all of three combined, like taken to the maximum

[modest skiff]

https://tenor.com/view/hot-santana-lopez-glee-naya-rivera-fans-self-gif-16271867

If that's true, I'm naming my car the sabre of Xebec

[copper frost]

Lmao

[modest skiff]

For reference, if you are familiar with the trolley problem, I have always said "the trolley problem is easy. You just need me to be the guy pulling the lever so everyone else can pat themselves on the back for being free of sin"

[copper frost]

Yeah, I know the trolley problem, and I can see why people are squeamish to choose either but I don't think that's a case either, based on the information we have, it's not just about who is the more evil entity but how it has rippled throughout to the present with the remnants of Rocks and the God Valley Incident

[modest skiff]

I think that's a good perspective. People like you are a good counter balance to folks like me and I look forward to discussing subsequent chapters with you 🙂

[mystic crown]

Wow, Where do I get pings for this kind of healthy discussion.

[modest skiff]

We try to purge this channel of all low-tier discussion so that it is the standard rather than the exception. Please stop by and participate whenever you see fit @mystic crown 🙂

[copper frost]

I don't really know what that means but yeah, OP discussion in this way is fun rather than the reactionary discourse we see with every chapter on a weekly basis

[modest skiff]

I mean that sometimes my perspectives are too extreme and folks who are more level headed are a good counter balance. It was a friendly comment

[copper frost]

Oh yeah I understood it was a friendly comment, just didn't get the first part lol

Well, level headed or not, discussions like these always benefit actually thinking over stuff

[mystic crown]

I need to reread One piece

[pure raven]

he had no wings

[limpid holly]

i think that Dragon might be Lunarian which make luffy half Lunarian, that would explain how Luffy managed to create fire that goes with some of his attacks.
also the facial tribal tattoos looks similar to King's, both are also tanned

hello to future me, I'll screenshot it to when it will be known i was right

[ancient vault]

Buddy

[grizzled fog]

And what about dragon sharing 0 of the known lunarian characteristics of lunarians?

[ancient vault]

You cant just say random things

[mystic crown]

Dont crush his dreams

[grizzled fog]

Wouldn’t the more logical way for this theory to be true be for luffy’s mother to be lunarian? Since we haven’t seen her

[limpid holly]

i think that Dragon lost his wings during government experiments or got rid of it by himself so no one would recognize him as Lunarian

[ancient vault]

Traits of a lunarian
Huge black wings
White hair
Dark skin
Fire on their back

[versed hamlet]

I too really like the fire on dragons back

[ancient vault]

Dragon has none of these

[grizzled fog]

So did that government experiment remove not just the wings, but the fire, and the skin color, and the hair color?

[ancient vault]

At best you can say hes dark skin which i even doubt

[mystic crown]

Let a man dream

[limpid holly]

the description of white hair was described directly at King by the government since he escaped from the government, i dont think it described how all Lunarians looks like

[versed hamlet]

he's the same skin tone as ivankov.

[ancient vault]

No it is a literal trait of Lunarians. They were listing the coming traits of lunarians and how king fits all of them

[limpid holly]

both could be true tho

its either the typical look of lunarian or King's specific look

[ancient vault]

Whatever i wont really argue about this

[ancient vault]

I dont think a crew that constantly killed each other on the ship was filled with good guys

[ancient vault]

We wont have an act 3 tragedy. The act ends with the war ending snd luffy winning

[ancient vault]

Where did u get from that he knows about seastone

[vagrant ginkgo]

He didn't had those tattoo while rogers execution right?

[pure raven]

no

manga as well

This might be too far reaching but dragons tattoos kind of look like an inverted WG symbol. Dot on the inside lines on the outside also red to contrast the blue and/or the red could represent the red line and how it basically walls off the world from itself. As well as the lines crossing diagonally instead of horizontal and vertical.

Later in the story they even define his tattoo more to change the dot into a square which might further influence this view of complete opposition of the world government.

And as opposed to the 5 elder stars which the 5 circles on the WG logo represent, the one square on dragons tattoo could represent one unified peoples.

Again all just philosophical bs I'm thinking of at 4 in the morning but think of it what you will.

[junior cape]

I kinda wish Jack got more screen time. Dude just kinda popped in, caused wanton death and destruction, got his ass beat a bunch, then died.

But almost all of it was offscreen.

Though thematically i guess he served his purpose. He got us to sympathize with the Minks, and created emotional stakes for partnering with them.

[muted ember]

He's not dead

[junior cape]

Dude he got a hole blasted through his spine. Hes dead. The Kozuki Vassals are not so kind as to let the Destroyer of Zou leave this raid with his life.

ESPECIALLY not Dog and Cat. Perospero got the donut treatment too.

I'm sure in the anime theyll animate around that, but the true catharsis of these characters only comes from them dying to recoup what they did.

[muted ember]

Bruh if u think Jack is dead u don't understand One Piece

[junior cape]

Bruh I think Jack is dead AND I understand One Piece.

Oda doesnt like killing characters unnecessarily, but Jack and Perospero are necessary.

[teal ivy]

Actually I’ve got a question. Who’s stronger Yamato or Zoro ? (Post 1035)

[junior cape]

Killing them neatly wraps up the Zou and Pedro revenge threads.

It let's the minks move forward without attachments

[junior cape]

I'd say they're about even.

[blazing spear]

People think Dragon is Uranus the one of the ancient weapons but this is wrong and i got proofs, lets begin.
First, In oden past, Roger asked sharli in Fish man island he asked her:When the princcess of the mermaid she said in 10 years but Dragon was in Roger era so As we know Ancient weapons only born in Joy Boy era,i also got proof that dragon was in Roger era, Remeber his execution, they showed a many charcters were in his execution and one of them was dragon, so thats why DRAGON ISNT URANUS

Any agrees?

[pure raven]

He can be user of it

[blazing spear]

@pure raven how

[junior cape]

And besides, the game has changed in One Piece. As soon as emperors were being challenged, lives were on the line even more than before. Deaths are going to happen, on both sides. So our protagonists and their supporters were gonna take lives sooner or later.

[blazing spear]

Shirahoshi is Poseidon and pluton is a Ship that can destory anything but oda didnt reveal anything about uranus

[blazing spear]

Seems legal

[junior cape]

Look, I strongly doubt that Oda will have our main cast explicitly end people in the future. However, it will be strongly implied that these figures were either killed by their injuries or by straw hat allies later. The second we see Luffy explicitly take a life, all bets are off.

[blazing spear]

Only way to know who is Uranus is to know who is the current joy boy

Ohara Island was a part of void century

[pure raven]

I mean to be worlds worst criminal he must have did something really worst , we have seen many characters in one piece who threatened wg along side straw hats but they were not given much of a importance but dragon on other hand not only he rebel but also did some unknown thing which is un known so with this argument I can only think of ancient wepon

[junior cape]

Uranus is a complete unknown. Poseidon is a mermaid, Pluton is a ship.

[blazing spear]

Ur right

[junior cape]

"Worst criminal" could just refer to the fact that he overthrows countries wherever he goes.

[pure raven]

Huh

Really

[blazing spear]

I heard a theory about dragon that his wife is a celestial dragon and she got killed by her family because she married a Human and thats why he is the worst criminal

[junior cape]

Dragon runs the revolutionary army.

[blazing spear]

He hated the world goverment but we dont know why

[blazing spear]

This is a theory btw

[pure raven]

Luffy literally destroyed cp9 by infiltrating ennis lobby which is close to marijois and escape empal down with bunch of misfits

[ancient vault]

Theyre not

[ancient vault]

They didnt even get a death panel. Theyre not dead. Theyre 100% alive

[muted ember]

Oda on Luffy killing

[ancient vault]

Thats unimportant tho here since u guys werent talking about luffy here right?

[blazing spear]

Gotta go bye

[muted ember]

"Luffy explicitly takes a life"

@ancient vault

[ancient vault]

Ah my bad didnt see

[junior cape]

Bro ya'll be tripping if you don't think Perospero ain't dead with his new chest hole where his heart used to be. As for Jack, dude was beaten and bloody before Dog blew a hole through him.

[pure raven]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[junior cape]

Like straight up. Theres no room to argue. They're done

[muted ember]

Whitebeard got half his face blown off, Zoro got his entire chest sliced open it doesn't really matter what the injury looks like

[ancient vault]

Kinemon survived a coc coating kaido blow on his head. Perospero aint dead

Unless its a head cut off the severity of damage is unimportant to oda

He doesnt kill them

[muted ember]

Ulti ate Big Mom laser on the same spot as Jack she was up a minute later

Jack and Perospero look like every other character that gets knocked out after a fight

[pure raven]

In one piece hardly people die

[junior cape]

Ya'll really scraping the barrel for these comparisons huh. White beard survived that because he was the strongest in the world, with toughness to boot. Zoro survived that because MIHAWK LEFT HIM ALIVE EXPLICITLY. Kinemon barely survived that blow, and was completely defeated after; he only lived because the vassals are all tough as is. Jack and Perospero are not those people, and if you think they're even comparable, you're huffing more copium than Queen after Osome turns him down.

[muted ember]

If Kinemon simply survived bc the excuse he's tough, then so can Jack and Perospero

[junior cape]

Again, the game has changed. Crushing dreams ain't gonna work against emperors of the sea.

[pure raven]

Jack is third command in yonko right as well as perospero also in higher ranks not exactly weak peeps

[junior cape]

Never said they were

[muted ember]

When did the game change? Did Oda say this or are u just making shit up?

[muted ember]

You're implying Kinemon survived bc he's tough, but won't apply that logic to stronger characters

[ancient vault]

Kinemon is not tougher than jack

[junior cape]

I'm saying the stakes shot up dramatically as soon as they started challenging the Emperors of the sea, who have absolutely no qualms about killing people to get their way, and the absolute strength of 40 years' reign to ensure they get it. These are foes who wont just go away if you beat them in a duel; they will chase you down with all their might and rage to obliterate you.

[pure raven]

both jack n perospero tougher than kinemon thats obivious

[muted ember]

That was all true in WCI as well, and not a single villain died

[junior cape]

So if the story is to move forward without them, they need to be permanently taken out of the picture. Besides, Kaido seeks a Glorious Death anyway.

[junior cape]

The goal of WCI was not emperor assassination. It was to get Sanji back. Now we are actively trying to take out 2 emperors.

[pure raven]

Thats true Thats why killing is needed but however perespero keep surviving i dnt think he will die about jack prob since hes zoan if hes really not dead he will come back

[ancient vault]

Did anyone die so far?

You should learn from that. If someone died the narrator is gonna say theyre dead. Otherwise theyre not. Oda is a pussy who doesnt kill and we have to deal with that

[honest narwhal]

and then there's absalom

[junior cape]

And Pedro

[pure raven]

Ace TT

[muted ember]

They literally had an assassination plan and the only person to die was on the protagonists side

[honest narwhal]

ace and pedro not antagonists

but there's higuma tho i mean its upto you if u will count or not

[ancient vault]

Who we got a clear confirmation is dead because his fruit is with shiryu now

[junior cape]

That was Bege's plan, and even he admitted it would only work on a miracle. Luffy and co only went with it because it gave them support to get Sanji out safely.

[ancient vault]

Idk how u can read all of onigashima and think pero snd jack are dead

This is a stupid argument 💀

[muted ember]

It doesn't matter why they did it, they did and u said the stakes went up when they started challenging Yonko, that's where it started and no villains have died yet

[junior cape]

Idk how you can think they're alive, what with their gaping chest holes and lack of life.

[pure raven]

if its not stated prob not

[ancient vault]

Reread the entire manga pls

Im dead serious.

[chrome spire]

Dawg you just arguing to argue. They all made valid points. Now you can agree to disagree but when you’re proven wrong or right in 2-10 weeks then I wanna see you back here. I def wanna see you here if you wrong. Own it. It’ll make you a better person

[pure raven]

Chap 1028

Chap 1032
Chap 1034/5
In theee panels sanjis eyebrows are opposite curl like his siblings

So is his body genetic transformation complete like his siblings .

P.s saw it on some japanese profile couldnt get what it was will post complete if i found it agin .

[muted valley]

That could be his other arm from the shoulder.

[pure raven]

https://twitter.com/abhidrama/status/1471831918060531712?t=pmUkPsXlxMd9E7joyw9EJQ&s=19

With detailed explanation

Abhirama ( #ONEPIECE ) (@abhidrama)

The connections ? 🤔🤨

LUFFY , KING and LUNARIANS

A quick thread
.
#ONEPIECE #theory

Likes

832

Twitter · Dec 17, 2021, 1:17 PM

[mighty hollow]

Bro he would have to he half is his hair is black

Anyway I have a theory about the 3 ancient weapons

Poseidon is obviously the mermaid princess from fishman island.

I believe pluton was originally sun god nika. And I believe the person who inherited the power of pluton is rocks d xebec. I believe rocks inherited the will of sun god nika and was a lunarian.
Lunarians and fishmen are intentionally made to be opposites. Controk flames one controls water. One lives directly above red line one directly below.

[fluid wren]

u know sun god nika

i think its a reference to sunny

that franky is making the thousand sunny pluton

[mighty hollow]

There are 2 plutons

The real pluton. And the battleship made to counter pluton

[fluid wren]

wait when did they say that

[mighty hollow]

Franky literally said that in ennies lobby bruh

I can get the panel though I don't take word so I shouldn't expect anyone to take mine

[normal flame]

I think pluton might be some sort of crystal type thing beneath the celestial dragons place. My only thought and reason the term pluton is used to describe a foreign object in the ground that has crystallized also known as a plutonic body

[mighty hollow]

The real pluton in my opinion are giant rock titans

I believe these creatures behind thriller bark are the inactive rock titans activate when the person who is pluton calls them

Bro pluton isn't in the control of the celestials man

[normal flame]

I like that one👏🏼 and I didn’t mean like In control just underneath maybe unaware of it

[mighty hollow]

Oh cool

[normal flame]

But that would make a lot of sense if pluton is some type of earth aspect since we got lightning from the monks fire from lunarians and water from fish man karate

Not monks minks🤐

[mighty hollow]

I believe rocks was the former pluton.

We have this weird consensus that the ancient weapons have to be weak and vulnerable people like shirahoshi.

I actually don't think that's the case

[normal flame]

It would be very oda to to give a guy named rocks power of giant rocks lol

[mighty hollow]

I don't think it would it be his df though

[normal flame]

Ahhh ok what would you think his DF is then?

[mighty hollow]

I think he can call these titans via his ancient weapon abiluty

[normal flame]

I see or kinda like how mono and luffy/ Rogers had the voice of everything but more along the lines of posideons call to the sea monsters

[mighty hollow]

I don't even know if you will fuck with the logic.

But I believe he had the star star fruit. Which was the former fruit of sun god nika. The sun obviously being a star.

As you know bb is the embodiment of a black hole he has the desire to destroy everything.

Yeah I think rocks had the voice of all things

A star star fruit that emerges from a literal star fruit

Basically does anything a star can do.

Uranus - spaceship
Pluton - sun god nika
Poseidon - mermaid princess

Pluton counter - battleship made to counter pluton

[sinful helm]

pluton is god of death no sense too make him sun god

[pure raven]

the sun god nika was a hero who freed slavea according to the tale. while pluton is a battleship of some sort.

We know pluton is literally not a person.

[quasi roost]

Didn't we get confirmation that Pluton was plans for a ship... So why are we trying to make Pluton into a human

[rapid fern]

And who’s that?

[split glacier]

Those random glowing eyes after Thriller Bark

[muted valley]

poossibly but slim as hell, that would goes into the whole Garp saved Dragon when younger and adopted him, then married garps theoretical daughter theory.

[pure raven]

i dont understand where you guys get this stuff. again lunarians = black wings, dark skin, white hair.

[pure raven]

are you basing this on anything other than the fan made return to reverie series

[surreal oriole]

I'm curious how the lunarians and skypians connect.. definitely look very similar with obvious differences

[pure raven]

they all came from the moon

[grizzled valley]

they should be connected, maybe descendants

but they lost some of their other qualities due to mixed blood with people from the blue sea

[pure raven]

oda literally says the lunarians were hunted to extinction by the world government except king

i dont get why you guys try to twist these facts oda gives us into something else

its like i say this orange is the color orange and you guys say "well it could be blue"

[grizzled valley]

maybe theyre from another tribe but also from the moon just like lunarians

[mighty hollow]

Of course I am

The original pluton is a land based entity. That the battleship pluton is useful against

[pure raven]

how do you know that

[mighty hollow]

How do I know what man

[pure raven]

where does it ever say pluton is a land based entity

[mighty hollow]

How do I know that pluton is land based are you really asking that

[pure raven]

yes

[mighty hollow]

What else would a battleship be used to destroy

[pure raven]

half the water 7 arc is about pluton and its specifically stated its a massive warship

[mighty hollow]

Oh my your creditless. The battleship isn't pluton. It was created to fight the ORIGINAL ACTUAL PLUTON

[pure raven]

https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Pluton

[mighty hollow]

You clearly didn't read the theory

[pure raven]

"Pluton is one of the three Ancient Weapons, alongside Poseidon and Uranus. Pluton is a huge and highly advanced warship capable of mass destruction,[1][2] constructed long ago in the city of Water 7 in the Grand Line. The battleship is said to be capable of destroying whole islands. Pluton was first mentioned by Crocodile when he questioned Nefertari Cobra of its whereabouts.[3] "

[errant rune]

This may be "Looking too much into it" but there are a lot of similarities.
Songs of Heroes
People Morphing into animals
Three headed Dog that never sleeps etc
And also if King's name is confirmed to be "Arber" it also supports this, as Arber is an Ancient word used for Albanians that lived in Albania. Arber means People with wings who live on Mountains"

[mighty hollow]

Read and stay quiet man. You don't know what your talking about

Franky literally says the ship was created to battle the original pluton

I don't wanna hear it man

[pure raven]

the original pluton is a warship

[mighty hollow]

No it's not lmao

[pure raven]

youre basing this on nothing lol

[mighty hollow]

The original pluton is something that hasn't been disclosed

The battleship was used to counter it

Bro you weren't completely unaware that franky said this why tf are you so confident

[pure raven]

the plans franky had were the blueprints to pluton. that panel is saying if pluton was ever unleashed on the world they would have a back up plan to counter pluton with a copy of itself.

[mighty hollow]

The battleship is not the original pluton
The battleship was created to counter pluton

Read the damn panel bro

[pure raven]

i just told you

[mighty hollow]

What tf

[plucky kiln]

rayleigh said something supporting your facts. when they were on fishman island

[mighty hollow]

That makes no sense.

[pure raven]

youre basing this on nothing but head canon lol

[mighty hollow]

You didn't even know franky said this shit about an original pluton
Why are you so confident

Franky said the plans were made to counter pluton. Therefore pluton is something that is big enough for a Canon as powerful as the one on the battleship to destroy

[pure raven]

????

[errant rune]

In think that we're lead to believe that Pluton is a highly advanced warship, no?

[mighty hollow]

Bro please fix your grammar

[pure raven]

the original pluton is a massive warship. franky was saying if pluton ever came into existance again they would have a back up plan to counter pluton with a copy of itself that they could build with the blueprints.

youre twisting the entire water 7 arc into your own fantasy

[errant rune]

That's what i remember too

[mighty hollow]

Franky just said that creator of the ancient weapon created a battleship to stop the original pluton

No where does it say the origin pluton was a battleship sit tf down man

[errant rune]

A second Pluton

[mighty hollow]

Get that wiki shit out of here use panels

[pure raven]

its not even worth my time to argue with you man. youre claims make no sense and have nothing to support them.

[mighty hollow]

Bro you weren't even aware that franky referred to 2 plutons. Your creditless

Your claim is that the original pluton is a battleship with a huge ass Canon.

So your saying a 2nd ship was created to fight another ship.

Iceburg said that Robin could awaken pluton. Please explain how Robin would awaken an inanimate piece of wood

Robin has the potential to awaken a piece of broken wood. You see how dumb that sounds bro

The original pluton is sentient. The ship was created to counter it

[pure raven]

you can apologize now

[pure raven]

U r too fixtated on ur claims based on one single panel and just keep fcking dissuading urself of all other fcking argument .
Without enough relevant facts ,

[mighty hollow]

Franky already confirmed that the battleship was not the original pluton

[mighty hollow]

Bro imma kindly ask you to stfu

[pure raven]

[pure raven]

where does it say this

[mighty hollow]

Franky literally said in the panel that the creator of pluton created blueprints for a weapon that could counter pluton

[pure raven]

the blueprints are pluton

[pure raven]

U can simply understand from that line as there exist an already developed full fledged pluton ship and the blue prirnt with some modification was left to develop and stop origibal ancient weapon plluton

pluton is a battleship I literally just showed you the panel in the manga where they confirm pluton is a battleship

[mighty hollow]

Bro stfu no one is talking to you

[split glacier]

Pluton is a warship. The blueprints allow it to be created multiple times. 1 has been created before but it's location is unknown. You use Pluton to destroy Pluton.

[sinful helm]

he said he kept the pluton bp too counter other weapons

[pure raven]

@mighty hollow https://www.dictionary.com/browse/ad-hominem

[mighty hollow]

The blueprints are used to counter the original pluton

It says the creator made blueprints to counter pluton. That means said blueprints didn't exist when the first pluton was made

[pure raven]

Lol u post a theory gere for other to read and have their own opinion and argue
But u just keep using abusive term and as @pure raven just said the term that fit u perfectly

[errant rune]

People have to be spoonfed by Oda🤣 like just connect the dots
The blueprints are passed down to Shipwrights=Builds Ships
Why not give the Blueprints to a fuckin swordsmith?💀

[pure raven]

show us where it says that

[mighty hollow]

Bro stfu and learn how to spell

Stop @ me for fucksake.

This fucking guy relentless af

[errant rune]

!flowchart

[lone hedge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486983010025996299/652839462589431809/shitposter_evolution.png

[errant rune]

He's on stage 3

[split glacier]

Where does it say Pluton is a land based entity then?

[pure raven]

this guys seething because he glot blown tf out hahah

[pure raven]

Those were typo error and as for grammar i got no shame as am weak in english
And am taking all scrutiny generously

[plucky kiln]

Pluton ship exists, and got lost in history
The creators invented blue prints to build another pluton in the case the OG pluton would get into the wrong hands, and these blue prints got passed down to tom

[pure raven]

ummm actchually

[errant rune]

A shipwright who buils ships. Simple💀

[plucky kiln]

so basically they wanted to copy the original pluton to counter it, if the worst case scenario would happen

[pure raven]

pluton is a robot from land cause i said so and ur guys stupid cause udont aggree with me uhhhhh

[mighty hollow]

Listen you guys seem to have fucking lost it.

The blueprints were created POST the creation of the first weapon. That means creator didn't use blueprints create the first fucking weapon

Why tf would you create blueprints for something that already exists. You see how fucking dumb that is.

[plucky kiln]

although for a period of time I also thought of 2 counterweapons made by...the ancient kingdom, to counter the three ancient weapons

[pure raven]

it never says the blueprints were created after pluton was made lol

[mighty hollow]

If that's your attempt to copy me you're clearly sped af

[plucky kiln]

Like I said, the blue prints were made after the first weapon in order to imitate it lol

[split glacier]

You keep posting the same thing. Where does it say Pluton is a land based entity because the story tells us it's a warship

[plucky kiln]

the blueprints were a back up plan with the function to counter the original

[mighty hollow]

Why would blueprints be created if the weapon already existed dumbass

[pure raven]

We creat a better altered rebranded version of pluton covering all its previous shortcoming and empowering it with ability to destroy pluton
For future gen if someone used already devlpd pluton for evil

[plucky kiln]

To counter it, if pluton is an ancient weapons, it is strong as fuck and probably there is nothing more stronger thatn ITSELF

[digital epoch]

A copy could have been made of the original blueprints, and that's what Franky had

[plucky kiln]

You dont need a new counter weapon to counter Pluton. Pluton itself would be enough

[split glacier]

Blueprints that literally say "Pluton" isn't enough? 😅

[pure raven]

"This orange is the color orange" "but it could be the color blue."

[mighty hollow]

Lemme break this down to elementary levels bro

You just said a blueprint was created to destroy something that already existed.

This thing that already existed needed a blueprint to create. But the creator made new blueprints for something he already had blueprints for.

What kind of fucking logic is that bro

[plucky kiln]

Teardrops idea of three weapons existing and three other weapons to counter it would actually makes sense if it is safe to say that one particular side has created the Three weapons and the other side would have created three weapons to counter them

how how do you counter shirahoshi ? its not like all ancient weaposn are physical weapons. it makes sense with ships, but not for poseidon

[split glacier]

At a stretch, the only think I could see Pluton being is actually Alabasta itself and it's a ship stuck in sand. Other than that there story TELLS US it's a warship, nothing else.

[pure raven]

hes not saying that hes saying the original pluton is not a battleship

[plucky kiln]

that would make sense if it is safe to say that there would exist "new" bluerpints, but its just based on a panel that you read which isnt even the original language. in case you didnt know, the japanese language is more complex than the english one, so that english translation will never be 1:1

[plucky kiln]

AND BTW lol

franky says "the FIRST one" which means he talks about a possibly second pluton to counter the first LOL

I defeated you with your own arguments
zehahaha

[mighty hollow]

Keep thinking that

[pure raven]

heres where he says pluton is not a battleship incase he forgot

[mighty hollow]

Yeah and i still believe that man

[pure raven]

ok you can think that but it doesnt mean the facts change

[mighty hollow]

The facts are that blueprints were created to stop pluton

[pure raven]

yes

the blueprints are pluton

pluton is a massive warship

[plucky kiln]

The one with the blueprints could create multiple ships to defeat one single ship

So the blueprints are more dangerous than the ship itself

[mighty hollow]

Yo can we move on from this

[plucky kiln]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-michael-scott-embarrassed-steve-carell-turn-tables-gif-5482488

[mighty hollow]

I'm not reading anymore of this shit. Let's agree to disagree

[pure raven]

no

[plucky kiln]

Its facts vs opinion lol

[amber oar]

depends on the materials tbf

[plucky kiln]

and the facts were made by yourself. you contradicted yourself bro

[mighty hollow]

The facts are that the original plutons nature hasn't been described

[plucky kiln]

and the builders. I dont think regular people could build this ship. Franky and Iceberg as the students of the last owner of pluton could be the only ones to acually build it

[pure raven]

look at this

[mighty hollow]

Yo move tf on. You niggas acting like bitches who got their weave fucked

[plucky kiln]

nobody has said anything aainst that lol

[pure raven]

throw out insults when you get proven wrong

[plucky kiln]

I guess thats the only thing he can do to maintains his non-existant pride

[amber oar]

username checks out

[mighty hollow]

Pride yknow

Teardrop refers to the move in basketball clown boy

[pure raven]

just admit youre wrong

[mighty hollow]

Move on

[plucky kiln]

lemme correct myself, The ancient weapons were made by the ancient kingdom

[mighty hollow]

So the ancient kingdom made the Princess

[pure raven]

poseidon yes

[mighty hollow]

The mermaid princess was the original weapon

You saying the ancient kingdom made a biological thing

[pure raven]

its passed down through the royal fishman bloodline

[plucky kiln]

lol. didnt think about that

[mighty hollow]

You see how fucking dumb that sounds

[amber oar]

I mean we don't know if it's a natural ability, regardless of being inheritable

[pure raven]

ok tell oda to change his story to fit your needs then

[amber oar]

whether the AK "made" Poseidon, or "discovered" her, goes beyond the point tbh

[mighty hollow]

What no ones denying it you clown

When tf did I deny that the ancient kingdom made the weapons

Now your tryna start something else now

[pure raven]

just arguing your claims

[mighty hollow]

No your talking out of your ass

[pure raven]

remember when you made a claim and i provided facts and reasoning and you got mad and started calling people names

[mighty hollow]

Nigga said facts and reasoning it took your dumbass like 50 comments to use panels

[pure raven]

i know 50 sentences is a lot to read for you but youll get through it.

[mighty hollow]

https://tenor.com/view/aad9l-gif-23644825

Yo anyone else got any other theories

[pure raven]

i got a theory that youre a dumbass

[mighty hollow]

Aight time to dip

I see its clown hour in chat right now led by this retard

[pure raven]

https://tenor.com/Whz1.gif

[mighty hollow]

This other clown is still obsessed on something I said we should dead to start something fresh

[plucky kiln]

aww

[mighty hollow]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-michael-scott-steve-carell-wink-gif-7720100

[wet glade]

whats the theory currently?

[plucky kiln]

make one, friend

[mighty hollow]

Why don't you make one instead of asking others to

[wet glade]

hmmm

[mighty hollow]

You niggas come here like critiques when you add nothing to conversation

[pure raven]

gonna be upset all day now?

[plucky kiln]

never saw someone embarrass himself so hard after getting murdered

[wet glade]

im not good at theories lol, i just like reading them

[mighty hollow]

Nah this shits debunked. Nah that shits impossible. Nah I got reasoning and facts

You guys sound like clowns bro

[plucky kiln]

your facts speak against you

[pure raven]

i know its a big change to be around people who dont just throw insults at eachother as an argument.

[mighty hollow]

Grab a drink from the fridge and come up with something yourself g

Or go outside and touch grass

[amber oar]

Behave, folks

[plucky kiln]

same. hmm I'd say we just take one of hundreds of mysteries and speculate

[mighty hollow]

How about I drop a decent theory that Bobby boon is from ukraine

[wet glade]

uhh, oharas theory on enies lobby being laugh tale?? idk lol

[amber oar]

I have to admit I like dismantling them lol

[pure raven]

lets hear it

[amber oar]

in regards to ohara's theory...

!denieslobby

[lone hedge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/833428729266438194/872498220708819035/Screenshot_20210804-171555.jpg

[plucky kiln]

Then what about Tequilla Wolf. Could there be meaning to it ? Or is it just something to describe the power and stupidity of the CD's

[mighty hollow]

I was trolling but if you want an actual decent theory.

Belo Betty is the daughter of garp. And dragon actually isn't garps son

[wet glade]

ayo how

[pure raven]

ok lets see your evidence

[plucky kiln]

this is called a statmenent. how do you reason them ?

[pure raven]

usually a thesis goes like this "I think xxxxxxxxx, because xxxxxxxxx."

[split glacier]

In Dragon's vivre card. It says "Born as Garp's son"

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/477571830941614080/905976316849971240/unknown.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/477571830941614080/905976207294730300/unknown.png

[plucky kiln]

A certain someone(not saying who): "I think xxx because xxx is true and yall are to stupid to understand it"

[wet glade]

belo betty has like 3 mins of screentime lmfao, and mans said shes garps daughter

[amber oar]

"Dragon isn't Garp's son" is actually debunked tho. I believed it for a while but his vivre card explicitly states Dragon was born as Garp's son.

When stuff like this is open to debate, databooks/vivre cards either omit them or leave it vague. It's very, very rare that a piece of data straight up lies to say the opposite later. Sometimes they correct stuff a few days or weeks after the vivre card is released, but Dragon's came out ages ago

[plucky kiln]

I think Dragon having been a marine member could make sense, but its weird how nobody among the marine seems to know anything about it. to them dragon is the devil

[amber oar]

Hard to tell tbh. It's said to be in the East Blue, but I find it weird that we see it during Roger's trip between Water 7 and Sabaody, like implying it's in the middle. Either we're supposed to think they made several trips in and out the Grand Line in between, or the other side of the bridge is being built in the Grand line, in that location.

[mighty hollow]

1. Garp has never referred to dragon as his son in the manga
   Only ambiguous statements such as "child of my child" or "your father"
   Both have admitted their relation to luffy garp in ennies lobby and dragon in 794

2. Luffy is also based on sun wukong who is said to be a monkey born from stone/rock. Based on the theory it would mean that dragon is the son of rocks rather than garp. Which makes alot of sense given their similar appearances and agendas.

The Japanese tradition mukoyoshi explains why he took the name of garp. As men from a notorious or shameful background can take the name of their wife if she is if higher social standing

[wet glade]

uh

[split glacier]

Scroll up

[mighty hollow]

Woop slap also referred to it as fate that luffy became a pirate. He is unaware of the true history and doesn't know joyboy.

Neither garp or dragon is a pirate so how could it be fate that he became one

[pure raven]

garp doesnt want to refer to dragon as his son. garp is the hero of the marines and his son is the most wanted criminal in the world.

[mighty hollow]

Garp has no care about about man

And

[split glacier]

Because that's how fate works. It's don't dictated on bloodline or family. It's preordained

[mighty hollow]

Why would he think its fate

[pure raven]

hold up preordained might be too big a word for him

[mighty hollow]

Haha I'm dead you fucking clown

[split glacier]

Because the world of OP is about fate, dreams and wills.

[pure raven]

"why would he think its fate"

[mighty hollow]

Why would he specifically think it's fate he grew up in foosha his whole life

[pure raven]

dude you linked a picture of the manga where woopslap literally says it could be his fate

[plucky kiln]

what could be behind this

[mortal field]

If i had a nickle for everytime i seen "Dragon isnt related to Garp" i would be the richest man alive

[split glacier]

Because that's how fate works...

[mighty hollow]

Give me a panel where garp says dragon is his son

[pure raven]

this

[copper frost]

oh my god this discussion has devolved

[split glacier]

Civil discourse is illegal apparently lol

[mortal field]

[mortal field]

Dawg i fucking cant, now youre grapsing at straws

[mighty hollow]

Lmao. Aesthetics are straws now

[pure raven]

I think roger might have told shanks and the crew that he was going to turn himself in and that he fulfilled his lives desires and shanks was upset.

[mighty hollow]

The biggest factor of blood relation is aesthetics dumbass

[split glacier]

You are actively ignoring what the author has given us tho...

[mighty hollow]

Ignoring what bruh

[mortal field]

Its sad cause the vivre card is saying he's Garp's biological son

[mighty hollow]

It's in fucking japanese man.

[pure raven]

https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Charlotte_Family

[mortal field]

Sanji looks nothing like Judge at all, thats still his dad

[split glacier]

I said scroll up but you were too busy drawing lines on pictures

[copper frost]

ok, lets not be hostile to each other

[mighty hollow]

How does this change anything

[pure raven]

"The biggest factor of blood relation is aesthetics dumbass"

[mighty hollow]

Yes that is a known fact

[pure raven]

a fact?

[amber oar]

something something nami clones

[pure raven]

how is that a fact

[mighty hollow]

Did I say in one piece clown

You using one piece as evidence for a general fucking statement

[mortal field]

Sanji Judge, Luffy Dragon, hell Helmeppo and Morgan

[pure raven]

this is a channel for discussing one piece theories

[mortal field]

They look NOTHING alike what so ever, but they’re blood related

[split glacier]

So then your reasoning for Dragon being Rocks son is rejected if you don't believe it's the same in OP...

[mighty hollow]

That doesn't mean shit for a general statement

[mighty hollow]

It's not really rejected. Show me dragons vivre card

[pure raven]

this guys gotta go back to preschool or something he needs to be put in timeout

[night jewel]

@mighty hollow gonna tell you to drop the aggressiveness only once.

[split glacier]

In Dragon's vivre card. It says "Born as Garp's son"

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/477571830941614080/905976316849971240/unknown.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/477571830941614080/905976207294730300/unknown.png

[mighty hollow]

In English preferably for fucksake

[night jewel]

did you see my message?

[mortal field]

THERE IS NO ENGLISH, IT WAS TRANSLATED.

[night jewel]

chill with the caps btw, no need to do that.

[mortal field]

Like you want Oda to come to ya crib and say “Garp is Dragon actual father”???????

[mighty hollow]

Fr. You think caps makes the words louder in my ear or some shit

[split glacier]

If the original language says it's Garp's son, why is English gonna change it?

[mighty hollow]

And bro that vivre card was made by some fucking editors of oda bruh

[pure raven]

it will change it to fill teardrops narrative

did you really just say that omg hahahahahah

[mighty hollow]

Editors of oda that release false info all the time

[willow idol]

they still have to get them approved by oda

[mortal field]

Mans really said “it was made by the people closest to Oda. Its fake”

[pure raven]

this is ridiculous

[split glacier]

Good lord...

[amber oar]

Every mangaka have a handful of sets of faces they repeat by muscle memory. Oda is a bit more varied than others in that regards, but still falls in it to some degree, specially after drawing for 20 years. Hence the Nami clone meme. There's also a number of Zoro clones around for example, and his future selves from the SBS kinda look like Rayleigh. That means fuck all. Showing that Dragon and Rocks's (very obscured) facial structure seems to be somewhat similar, means little to nothing. Fucking Demaro Black resembles Dragon more than Luffy.

[mighty hollow]

So does anyone here think rocks has a sln

[split glacier]

So allllll SBS and Vivre cards are wrong then

[mortal field]

God i heard the term “you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make it drink it” this shit is crazy

[pure raven]

https://tenor.com/wmpo.gif

[split glacier]

Shanks

[mighty hollow]

Lmao. Based on what

[night jewel]

moving on from that

[mortal field]

Probably, but i wouldnt be surprised if he doesnt have one

[pure raven]

i believe makino and shanks had a kid more than the rocks stuff

[patent sail]

Based on his age and the fact that God Valley incident happened close to each other is the popular theory

[mortal field]

Mans too busy clapping islands instead of cheeks

[night jewel]

any artist's artstyle makes it so that they happen to draw similar faces all the time, no need to look too deeply into that

[plucky kiln]

Luffy and Shirahoshi ?

[amber oar]

Correct, that's what I'm saying

[night jewel]

yea i know, just adding to that

[mortal field]

Yea

[split glacier]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/deygvh/shanks_is_the_son_of_the_captain_of_the_rocks/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

[pure raven]

honestly we dont have a lot to go off for rocks theories. we dont know about his personality we dont know about his past we dont even know what he fully looks like. I dont subscribe to many rocks theories just because we lack so much crucial information about him.

the only things we really know are he was the captain of rocks which had 3 yonkos on board and his goal was to conquer the world.

and he fought garp and roger at god valley

thats pretty much it

[plucky kiln]

Joy Boy and Poseidon meeting again

[pure raven]

i do think black beard has a connection to rocks though purely based on his "sabre of xebec" ship

[mortal field]

Honestly the wound aching thing brought up by WB could be a reference to BB, but 9/10 its probably Rocks

[pure raven]

raft?

[plucky kiln]

I don't think it needs to be biological. it would be enough if they would somehow know eachother, but then WB must have realised who blackbeard was

[pure raven]

are rafts considered ships?

[mortal field]

Raft, shit was garbage too

[split glacier]

BB didn't wound WB

[mortal field]

Emotional ache

[plucky kiln]

and WB also knew Teechs name, so WB could have actually be aware of a relation between BB and Xebec

[split glacier]

Why would it ache when he sees Shanks face...?

[pure raven]

if your talking about the meeting between shanks and WB it was shanks who brought it up and he was talking about his signature scar that bb gave him

[amber oar]

More a figure of speech, that it brings bitter memories

[gentle escarp]

Yeah that is debunked

[mortal field]

Shanks got the scar from BB

[pure raven]

yea

[gentle escarp]

It aches because shanks was on rogers crew

[plucky kiln]

?

[gentle escarp]

Roger gave him the scars

[plucky kiln]

?

[split glacier]

That's not fact

[pure raven]

we dont know what transpired between shanks and BB but we can theorize that BB betrayed shanks in some way.

[gentle escarp]

I could've sworn someone said rocks gave it to him in fact it was you

[plucky kiln]

we could see young blackbeard with a weapon that most likely caused the scar
I guess it happened when they were like 18

[gentle escarp]

Debunked

That was a quick debunk. 33 years ago wb

Xebec died 38 years ago

[split glacier]

Yeah I think Rocks wounded WB, not Roger. Roger and him were too buddy buddy

[pure raven]

could he be talking about roger though?

[gentle escarp]

Yeah thats debunked

[visual merlin]

yea its roger

[mortal field]

Wait what we talking bout?

[pure raven]

oh yeah i thought you were tryign to say xebec gave him hte scars

[gentle escarp]

Rocks giving wb the stas is debunked

[split glacier]

He doesn't have the scars after either.

[gentle escarp]

After what man

[mortal field]

WB never ran from battle, im sure everyone gave him a scar

[split glacier]

That was the last time they met

[plucky kiln]

Yeah still they battled each other with passion. so roger could have done it too, but roger has nothing to do with shanks face

if shanks was the son ofxebec this would make sense

[pure raven]

shanks face reminds WB because shanks was an apprentice on rogers crew and participated in the battles they had.

[gentle escarp]

The point is your using the the scar I got from that guy seen as a hint to rocks

But rocks couldn't have given wb the only scars on his body in his old age

As wb didn't have said scars 6 years after his captain died

[mortal field]

But referring to Roger as “that man” isnt in his character

[split glacier]

Why doesn't Ace's face bother him then? The actual son of the guy who supposedly wounded him?

[gentle escarp]

He referred to rogee as that man before we knew shanks was in the crew lmao

[pure raven]

it does when oda doesnt want to reveal to much before hes ready to

[mortal field]

And he knows thats his son

[split glacier]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/deygvh/shanks_is_the_son_of_the_captain_of_the_rocks/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

[pure raven]

oda does that all the time ie. the lurking legend

[mortal field]

That is true

[visual merlin]

For that it'd probably be that Ace is only connected to roger through blood

not any actual relationship like shanks

[gentle escarp]

Shanks isn't the son of rocks lmao

[visual merlin]

and this same chapter did end up revealing shanks was a part of roger's crew

[pure raven]

take in mind that the WB shanks meeting was in like what? the late 200 chapters?

[split glacier]

That's the theory. You don't have to believe but you can't disprove it

[gentle escarp]

Why would shanks hide a D

[split glacier]

And you can believe that

[pure raven]

oda didnt reaveal major stuff about roger until like 960

[amber oar]

The problem with any theory regarding Shanks's past is that he comes with a bottle of wine from "his hometown". We know Shanks was with Roger at a very young age, around 9, but he remembers growing up in a certain town in West Blue.

Can't be the case that he was born there and taken away as an infant, or he wouldn't call it "hometown". Ace didn't call Baterilla his "hometown", his home place is Goa by all accounts.

[gentle escarp]

Yeah I believe rocks has no son

[visual merlin]

thats also true Jugol

[gentle escarp]

Just an inheritor of will

[visual merlin]

I think if rocks has a son its probably BB

[pure raven]

i think BB was influenced by rocks but there is no direct blood relation same with any other character people claim is rocks son

[visual merlin]

I'd say shanks is a possibility, but what we know isn't supporting that

[gentle escarp]

Shanks is as much of a possibility as buggy lmao

[split glacier]

I think Shanks is the son and BB has the will. And it's completely fine to think otherwise 😊

[pure raven]

BB is a avid history researcher so i can see where he gets his radical ideas from xebec if he was researching him at a young age.

[amber oar]

actually Buggy has a bigger chance as a Grand Line native

[gentle escarp]

Why would shanks be the son of rocks. What symbolism would that create

[split glacier]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/deygvh/shanks_is_the_son_of_the_captain_of_the_rocks/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

[gentle escarp]

So shanks is hiding a D in his name

I've seen that it's not convincing

[pure raven]

i dont see the attractiveness of these "x is x's son/daughter" theories honestly. what does it add to the story really if we think about it? luffy is dragons son and he is completely different than his father. ace was rogers son and he hated his father.

[split glacier]

Read or don't. That's gonna answer any questions. Go argue the post lol

[pure raven]

i think there are way too many bloodline theories out there

[split glacier]

Do you think Shanks is his full name?

[visual merlin]

there doesn't have to be much to it

it's just a cool reveal and connection

[gentle escarp]

I asked you a question what is the purpose of rocks being the father of shanks

[pure raven]

part of me thinks it could be. shanks could just be an orphan.

[visual merlin]

oh this guy is this other guy's son what a twist

[pure raven]

no real name to go by. maybe got his name because he was carrying around a knife or something when roger found him.

[gentle escarp]

Maybe he hides his name because he is an orphan who has no name

[split glacier]

The purpose? Ask Oda. He knows

[pure raven]

i honestly just dont like bloodline things. it kind of ruins stories by saying " this character didnt actually go through all these struggles by their own will. it was actually because their forefathers were amazing."

[gentle escarp]

I'm asking for the symbolism bro. Clearly you have an idea of what this plot thread ultimately means and what oda would be trying to convey via this

[split glacier]

Read the theory. It answers your questions

[pure raven]

theres a lot of conversation going on what was your original theory again? just trying to stay on topic .

[amber oar]

I read that post. Honestly what it has isn't very solid.
The talk between Roger and Garp is about Ace and there's no reason to think it ties to something else.
The "scar that aches" is more easily associated to Roger, specially because WB mentions Shanks being an apprentice a little later. If he meant Rocks why the first name he drops is Roger. Contextually doesn't make sense.

Last but not least, the Blackbeard/Luffy bit is a forced parallel heavily inspired in... can't say it because other series spoilers, but I think you get it. Reincarnation bullshit.

[gentle escarp]

The theory says roger gave his kid to garp because be took in shanks for rocks. How does that make any sense

[pure raven]

i just dont see any connection of shanks to rocks. not really giving us any evidence either to persuade us.

[gentle escarp]

And there's also the fact that one had seeming dread locks while shanks has straight hair

[split glacier]

Roger and Garp fought Rocks. The possibility of their being a young kid like there is on many ships. Kids don't inherited the sins of the father. Same reason Roger asked Garp to look after Ace. You didn't read anything and it's fine. YOU DON'T HAVE TO BELIEVE IT lol. I

[gentle escarp]

Theres a clear difference in shading between their hair aswell

[split glacier]

You do know dreadlocks aren't natural right? You have to lock your hair together intentionally IF he has dreadlocks.

[amber oar]

do we even have an official Rocks romanization? It could be Locks all things considered

[gentle escarp]

It just doesn't make any sense.

Roger gave his son to garp by forcing his own philosophy on him lmao.

And your saying garp let roger groom the son of rocks into a pirate

[pure raven]

I dont think shanks lineage means anything in the story. I think shanks is respected by everyone purely because of the strength of himself and his crew, the fact he was on rogers ship, not confirmed but may know the ture history through rayleigh and/or other roger pirates, and is a level headed individual who would rather reason than fight.

[gentle escarp]

Shanks in my opinion is most likely a celestial anyway

[pure raven]

wait did he delete the comment

i was replying to it hahah

[split glacier]

Raise* Alternatively having another potential Rocks in Shanks is worse so... Garp knew Roger wasn't a "bad" man and Shanks would've been killed IF he was Rocks son and the government knew.

[tired osprey]

Blackbeard got two younger sisters, unless theyre his half siblings it doesnt work out that rocks is his father

Or theyre “blood sisters” ala ACL lol

[tender zinc]

Wait where?

[split glacier]

I know it's about Ace. That's the "callback" so to speak. Roger to Garp > You look after my son the same way i looked after Rocks son so the government didn't kill him. Children have no sins blah blah blah. You can say it's Roger but the info given about scars and wounds, it's more so enemies than buddies. Also it's just weird to reference Roger as "that guy/man" then to name him next panel lol. It doesn't have to be true, i just think it links. Luffy is Roger/Joyboy and BB is most likely Rocks but BB doesn't NEED to be his son as well. I just find it more interesting for the Son of Xebec and the Will of Xebec to be rivals while the Son of Xebec guides the new Joyboy in a way.

[split glacier]

Inside him

[gentle escarp]

What makes more sense is that roger saw garp do something similar to he did

And knew garp based on previous evidence that he was the guy who could do it

[tender zinc]

But where does it say that

[split glacier]

No where. It's just a theory

[gentle escarp]

I'm talking about what makes more sense lmao

[tender zinc]

or headcanon

[ancient vault]

You were warned once before. Besn already told you before to not just post a link but add your own thoughts at least when someone asks.

[split glacier]

Same thing lol

[gentle escarp]

Did you know read what I said lmao.

[split glacier]

What are you on about? lol

[gentle escarp]

When people say headcanon its clearly a shot ."So it's your fanfic" that basically what they mean when they say "so headcanon"

[split glacier]

I dunno what you are talking about.

[gentle escarp]

And its more like common sense to rely on a guy who has done something before when making a decision

[gentle escarp]

I was talking to the other guy man

[amber oar]

ACSL
Now, two younger sisters can be 39 and 38. But nah I don't believe Teach is Rocks' son

[tired osprey]

Oh lmao

[ancient vault]

Im telling you to answer ppl when they ask you about sth you brought up. You did the same thing with me last time were you just went „watch the video“ and look at that spacecadet watched it while i refused wnd he told me it was a waste of time

[split glacier]

But who are you? Are you a mod? The creator of the discord? Like who are you? Do you make the rules here?

[ancient vault]

Im warning you before a mod warns you and u get in trouble lmao. I helped up set up this chat for more series discussion with my idea for the pinned theories. I dont like seeing bs posted here

[split glacier]

So no.

[ancient vault]

Im just telling u cause il being nice

[visual merlin]

He's not a mod, but that's no excuse when you have been warned by one already

[gentle escarp]

If kyrie has made that shot before in a similar situation you are gonna pass it to him down the stretch

The logic of giving ace to garp because of shanks is like saying

"Because I'm clutch(take in the kids of my enemies)and shown I'm clutch before(taken in shanks) I'm going to give the ball to someone else who has never shown that he is clutch(give my son to garp)"

[visual merlin]

Especially in this channel, try to respond to people and back up things instead of just posting where you got the idea

[split glacier]

What?

[gentle escarp]

If someone has made good food before. And someone who has never made good before asks to cook. And I'm hungry af

I'm gonna rely on the person who has done the shit before

[split glacier]

Next time i''ll just copy and paste the whole post for you

[split glacier]

It's fine for you to believe that. I don't have a problem with you believing what you believe...

[gentle escarp]

Bro what does shanks being the son of rocks add to his story from your perspective

[tawdry bramble]

What if he wants to avenge his father

[gentle escarp]

He doesn't even know the guy personally

[tawdry bramble]

Ace didn’t know Roger personally and still hated him

[gentle escarp]

Clearly he doesn't since he is a snitch to the gorosei

[ancient vault]

Ig its that
Shanks (biological son) vs Blackbeard (inherited rocks will)

[gentle escarp]

Ace had reasons to hate roger. Because he felt like he was abandoned and cast into a world where he was judged just for being the son of this guy

[ancient vault]

We dont know his reasons for why he works with the WG

[gentle escarp]

Thats not really how it works man

[olive musk]

I think Zoro will use Haoshoku Haki in the future

[gentle escarp]

The not inheriting the will of the father shit comes into play when the children grow up to know their biological fathers

[ancient vault]

Well it is if its true. Im not really for the theory but it‘d add into the theme that inherited will is stronger than blood relations

[ancient vault]

What? I dont get what u just ssid