manga-theories

[lethal cypress]

I think it's possession theres no way an 11 Yr old kid comes up with a 20 year deep plan

[weary rose]

He didn’t plan it tho for 20 years

[muted valley]

Or BB is a D like rocks and BB has rocks will. Coupled with a similar motif of luffy following Roger, BB followed Rocks and has some connection to him through a journal or something

[sinful helm]

there are some crazy smart people in OP world

[weary rose]

He was genuinely happy as a WB pirate until he saw the fruit

[lethal cypress]

I said a 20 year deep plan

[sinful helm]

i think he was always looking for the fruit or thats just what i observed?

[muted ember]

Cavendish loses control of his body to Hakuba when he sleeps. If BB theoretically had multiple souls that could communicate with each other they could switch seemlessly when one needs to rest

[lethal cypress]

Implying it took 20 years for the plan to bare fruit

Bro aurek no offence but your quite slow

[desert hatch]

the plan was to find the fruit and then become pirate king. he’s a genius!

no 11yr old could come up with that

[muted valley]

He said that, he said he figured WB ship gave him best odds. So he was just laying in wait. But we know he battled Shanks at some point prior, and Shanks knew he was up to something.

So he couldn't do anything till the fruit.

[modest skiff]

We don't know BB is the one to come up with the idea

[lethal cypress]

The plan wasn't just that

It was find the fruit
Kill wb
Break into impel down and recruit worst criminals

[sinful helm]

i think killing wb was more of the opportunity siezed

[weary rose]

Where’s the evidence Pleb?

[muted valley]

He said he winged his plan after the fruit.

[lethal cypress]

No the wb fruit was planned aswell

[weary rose]

That he planned that all at 11?

[muted valley]

During him and aces talk

[desert hatch]

probably came up with all that stuff after, he has some other objective planned but other than that his main goal was to get the fruit. not a hard plan to come up with

[muted valley]

And I think in impel down as well

[lethal cypress]

Why would he on spur of the moment gain the strongest paramecia

[sinful helm]

he saw the chance and took it

[lethal cypress]

No he planned it

[muted valley]

Logia*

It all hinged on that. He winged afterwards to make the plan work

[desert hatch]

he saw it’s power as a crew member and decided to take it

[sinful helm]

his plan was made in broad strokes probably

[weary rose]

Like I said, BB stated he was fine in his current position as a WB pirate until he felt a calling from said Dark Fruit.

[muted ember]

Yea he didn't plan any of that stuff bc he was originally planning on capturing Luffy

[lethal cypress]

He planned the confrontation between wb and the navy

[desert hatch]

facts

[lethal cypress]

He did plan to get into impel down

[sinful helm]

i mean thats what wg planned too fight wb

[desert hatch]

ye, if ur trying to build a crew and u have the power why not?

[lethal cypress]

Taking luffy would give him the warlord status

Therefore letting him into impel down

[sinful helm]

when they announced the time of execution of ace

[muted valley]

Listen to what Tray said... about Luffym

Bb even stated more than once he had a rough idea of how to accomplish it all

[lethal cypress]

He said he had it all planned out

[modest skiff]

To what end though? Regardless of why he wanted to capture Luffy, it was clearly one small step in his master plan

[muted valley]

He winged it, and did it all as things changed he changed accordingly

[lethal cypress]

All planned and rough idea aren't the same thinh

[desert hatch]

he probable inherited someone’s will, someone he knew before he joined wb. but idk if theres anything else that can be said so far

[modest skiff]

Agreed

[muted valley]

A plan and winging it when things change are the same.

The end goal is the same and so is certain parts

[lethal cypress]

Yeah the steps in a plan aren't always gonna be the exact same as your envision it

That doesn't mean he fuxking winged it

[muted ember]

The first step was to become a Shichibukai for whatever reason. He was hunting Pirates with over 100m bounties to turn in and ran into Luffy at Jaya

[weary rose]

Blackbeard definitely winged it post fruit

[lethal cypress]

No he didn't

[modest skiff]

Right, I suppose what I mean is why become a shichibukai?

What we know is that the Yami "chose" BB and I can't imagine the reason for that was for the benefits of being a warlord

[muted valley]

He was going to use his shibukai privileges to gain power. Similar to Crocodile and Moria.

[lethal cypress]

He literally went back to the plan of recruiting impel down prisoners

Which had always been part of the plan

[muted valley]

But with Ace captured it accelerated it and took WB down earlier

[lethal cypress]

Gaining warlord status was to get into impel down

Literally the same shit law did

[desert hatch]

still doesn’t rationalize an older soul living in him, just saying it’s not a hard plan

[lethal cypress]

Get into the sad room get into impel down via warlord status

[desert hatch]

and he def coulda come up with that after he joined wb crew

[muted ember]

Bc u can conduct very questionable activities under government protection I assume he could form his next plans much more risk averse

[muted valley]

They don't normally let warlords in impel down. The fact that boa went was bc of the war.

BB got lucky due to luffy breaking in and alot of commotion was happening.

[lethal cypress]

No it wasnt

[weary rose]

Literal written facts

[muted valley]

They stated all that

[median saffron]

You guys are smart

[lethal cypress]

They let her because of her status simple the war didn't add anything to it

In fact the war would make ghek more cautious

The didn't state shit about letting her because of the war thats your headcanon

[desert hatch]

didn’t they hypnotize the gate keepers and break in

[muted valley]

I love impel down

[weary rose]

https://tenor.com/view/brook-yohohoho-gif-11276760

[desert hatch]

and luffy just made it easier

[lethal cypress]

Give me the panel where theywt her into impel down because of the war

[desert hatch]

to see ace

[modest skiff]

Alright guys it is late here, gonna head to bed. Been a pleasure discussing with you all. see ya

[muted valley]

They litterally told her normally they won't let her in, but because ACE was the central figure to this giant war they granted her permission. It was stated by Momonga and others in Impel Down

[lethal cypress]

Yeah you gotta panel

[muted valley]

You do it. It's around 430 I think

[lethal cypress]

I don't really take your word on it but if you have a panel that can make me hold the L

Yeah I already checked and it didn't say that

[muted valley]

Other people agree with me on this.

What was going on at 430? Cause I know the scene off top my head?

[lethal cypress]

Aurek the guy I made look naive earlier

When he said that kat was too young to be on rocks

Of course he is gonna agree with you

[muted valley]

Tray did too

[lethal cypress]

Tray the guy I said was too petty to create a theory

[median saffron]

Where are you guys in manga

[desert hatch]

u get high off being toxic? just wondering

[muted valley]

And me and tray argued like cats and dogs yesterday. Don't think because you disagree people hate you man.

[modest skiff]

Before I head out: I work as a chemical physicist professionally. I see more requests for citations in the One Piece community than I do at work. Not a bad thing. Great community

[desert hatch]

i study physics so i like evidence as well😂😂

[lethal cypress]

I'd call it being pessimistic rather than toxic

And if you mean high as in I gain pleasure by it

Mildly yes

[muted valley]

525, my bad

But it's plain as day for you

Also that is called being Toxic, Pleb. Don't take a comic book chatroom so seriously where you start stuff because you get a boner from it. It's silly, especially since everyone has shit about OP were wrong about.

[versed hamlet]

do you have a phd

[muted valley]

I assume he has masters or is an intern

[modest skiff]

MS, yes

[muted ember]

I blocked dude but just for the record I do agree with you on everything being said on this topic

[weary rose]

I couldn’t find it lol

[muted valley]

I hope ur joking lol

[muted ember]

I just don't have the energy to inform or entertain the negativity of Pleb lol

[weary rose]

I concur

[muted valley]

He's another level, idk that person you stated he could be but it's possible.

I saw someone 2 days ago go crazy and leave because they were told and shown they were wrong. So they were toxic

[weary rose]

Plain as day

As for me it’s 3am so I’m off to bed as well, cheers for the conversations.

[muted valley]

Nite, same. I gotta do hw lol

[modest skiff]

later guys, i'll actually go to bed now too

[prime bluff]

Which was the finest work of shimotsuke

[abstract pond]

Wado Ichimonji and Emma iirc

[marble jetty]

I am interested about first kitetsu. I think the one elder have is first kitetsu

[lucid grail]

WHEN ARE SPOILERS COMING LOL

[errant oxide]

Stop being a little kid

[muted valley]

Define "finest"

@prime bluff

[marble jetty]

I am new one here.
Is picture sending based on level or something

[errant oxide]

Get roles

[muted valley]

Serious question about finest, like strongest? Best looking? Ect..

Enma seems to be the top dog atm if I go by my idea

[prime bluff]

omg

[marble jetty]

Aokiji thanks

[muted valley]

Wait till Wednesday/Thursday Est and they usually get released

[abstract pond]

I guess each sword has a different "power" based on their "personality"

[muted valley]

I think it's more or less how well the blacksmith perfected them.

He said swords are for killing nothing more. So I think if you make the "perfect sword" it'd excel at it and it's personality reflects that

[solar knoll]

Remember now Mihawk used a knife to fight Zoro and said he can’t go easy with his sword?

Probably something like that. Enma doesn’t know how to chill

[muted valley]

I thought he said something like "do you use all your force to squash an ant?" Or something along those lines

I don't remember exactly quote

[solar knoll]

Let me relook at it brb

[muted valley]

You could be right, but I'd have to see

Well English has it talk about him using all his might when hunting a rabbit

Seems like its a mix of both our quotes. Where he wouldn't use his sword against such a small opponent.

But even in the end he did hit Zoro with it and purposely only put him to near death.

[solar knoll]

Any theories on luffy’s mother?

[foggy gulch]

Easy it's big mom

[solar knoll]

Too difficult to make a solid theory I would say

Oof

Hb joyboy?

[abstract pond]

Jewelry Boonye is one I saw some time ago

[solar knoll]

Ooh ok brb gonna watch ep93 even though i got spoiled and i love being spoiled on animes lol

[muted valley]

I have a couple theories of his mom none are crocomom

[brave current]

and frogs

[foggy gulch]

Dragon is luffy's mom because Ivankov

[muted valley]

The frog thing stuck with Zoro he has said it alot. Frog in a tiny pond unaware of the world outside of it

But what scans are those? But I was close

[muted valley]

That could be But I doubt it. Altho it'd be a good way to hide ones identity

[foggy gulch]

Did garp ever called dragon his son??

[brave current]

Cant see one on the pages

[abstract pond]

So far the theory I see more possible is Bonnie and just because she eats a lot like him xd
We don't really now much of Dragon story to try and guess who the mother is

[brave current]

I'm my language it's a little different

[muted valley]

No, just called his luffy child's child and talked about his father

Oh his vivre card says "born as garps son" which is a wierd way of saying it's different from everyone else. As no one else has been labeled in such a way. While not stating it as fact.

My fan theory is that Dragon isn't garps son biologically. He married garps daughter and took garps family name and laid in hiding.

Or his is Rocks son and Garp adopted him, which is why Roger knew garp would take Ace. As the sins of the father trope I'd pretty common set piece.

[abstract pond]

Isn't dragon's full name Monkey D Dragon?

[muted valley]

Yes

There's a rare tradition of taking the female family names in Japan as well

Mukoyōshi

Adult man adopted into the females family.

[foggy gulch]

This leads to Luffy's mom being dead kinda

[muted valley]

If mine is right, yes

That's my belief so far.

The series is very father orientented with mothers being a smaller aspect

I really want to know if Kong is Garps Dad

[foggy gulch]

Kong is just another monkey

Monkey D Kong😂

[muted valley]

He looks like he Def is apart of the family for sure

Also would explain why Garp got in the marines and kept his D showing to begin with

[solar knoll]

This is not anywhere near the story line but it can be a possibility.
That what if luffy’s mother is something important that will change the whole story?

[errant oxide]

Oda said she won’t be important to the story I think

[abstract pond]

Or maybe the wg killed her and that's why Dragon is going full on against it

[solar knoll]

Yeah. But what if oda will change his mind?

[muted valley]

Doubt on my end, I bet she died in child birth

[abstract pond]

There is also the theory (this one I don't like it at all xd) that the mother is Im sama

But that's like cheap and lame xd

[solar knoll]

Is Im sama male or female?

[pure raven]

yooo i never even thought about that that would be insane if it were true and also kind of makes sense as well

[errant oxide]

We don’t know anything about Im yet

Might not have a gender at all

[muted valley]

Imu is a man I bet, it's never stated what or who he is. Just assumptions he is the real king of the world.

[drowsy marsh]

I think Imu will be a woman

[errant oxide]

Not a king but yeah maybe

[muted valley]

I mean, "that chair at the center of the world, no King can sit in." Im sits in it

[solar knoll]

Any theories on who JoyBoy is or what’s the treasure of one piece

[errant oxide]

You just answered yourself. A king can’t sit in it. So Im isn’t a king

Yeah there’s a lot

[abstract pond]

A queen is not a king

[abstract pond]

wait 10 more years and we'll know it

[solar knoll]

Oof

[errant oxide]

More like 3

[drowsy marsh]

I also think 3 years

[errant oxide]

Assuming both Kaido and Big mom are taken out in Wano, we will find Shanks and the last poneglyph then head to laugh tale for a fight against black beard

[foggy gulch]

Joyboy used the combined power of 3 devil fruits (one of them was the dark dark fruit) to cause the void century and hide ones piece
Imu Sama has no clue what one piece is but he/she knows what happened in the void century

[muted valley]

They were telling the other kings not to, a king isn't to sit in it because of the reveire and how it's a commitment to peace

[errant oxide]

2022, Wano Ends and we start to learn about what happened at reverie and Sabo, then what happened with the warlords. That probably lasts all 2023. Then 2024 we meet Shanks at Elbaf. We probably get the last poneglyph there then head to Lodestar and then Laugh Tale. We’ll likely be at Laugh Tale in 2025

[muted valley]

It is a monument to world piece and no true ruler. Yet Imu sits in it.

[errant oxide]

Yeah Im is the ruler of the world government, higher than the gorosei but he isn’t a king

[neon shoal]

Doesnt imu sit empty throne because im is not king but considered a “god” or deity

[foggy gulch]

Imu definitely thinks he's a god

[muted valley]

King of the world, ruler of the world, Conqourer of the world. All the same.

[foggy gulch]

Do we know what the 3 eyed tribe look like? pudding was only half-blood

[errant oxide]

Probably less sexy versions of pudding

[pure raven]

Either way less or way more

[pastel sinew]

You gotta love one piece for the mysteries man

[foggy gulch]

I heard something about fukurokuju having a third eye

[errant oxide]

Yeah like how do the Kuja procreate

[foggy gulch]

They Go out to the sea and come back with kids 😉

[errant oxide]

Yeah but they don’t know what men are so

Maybe they fuck the snakes idk

[foggy gulch]

The kuja pirates know what men are

[errant oxide]

The majority have never seen or heard about them

[muted valley]

Sadly...

We also know pudding is a hybrid. So what a real one may differ

$20 it'll be sweet pea 3 eye looking ass ladys

[muted valley]

Know of men but was surprised when they saw luffies family treasures and tried to pull off his stretchy "mushroom"

[foggy gulch]

They weren't kuja pirates

[muted valley]

She was one

[pure raven]

I think Imu might be related to the ancient weapons. Let me explain Greek Mythology first. Gaea was basically the origin and first of the gods. People called her Mother Earth, she had a son that was Ouranus / Uranus (One of the ancient weapons also the first god of the sky. She then bred with him and produced the titans, which were assasinated by their sons being the gods (Zeus / Jupiter, Poseidon / Neptune and Hades /Pluton /Pluto). Imu in reverse means Mother in arabic, I know it's a shitty analogy but cope with it for the moment. We know that the government might have a secret weapon and we also know that Pluton and Poseidon are supposedly in Arabasta and fishman island. Poseidon is involved with the sea. Many of the One Piece villains somehow represent a god or creatures of certain mythology. Like Orochi = Yamata no orochi, Crocodile being the Desert god Seth (Who shared the exact same personality and ideology as crocidile, Oars being similar to gaias giants, Hordy Jones who is based off of Davy Jones and Doffy who was based off on the Fates in ancient greek mythology, The fates controlled destiny, There role was to ensure that every being lived out their destiny and they are also associated with strings, Doffys fruit on the other hand symbolizes this, he manipulates people to satisfy his own ambition no matter what and on top of that he has a godly complex, his master plan was to be get the ope ope no mi (Worth 5 billion berries) to get the hidden thing in the WG that only the ope ope no mi can achieve and stand at the top of the world and be a literal god in a sense or even grant immortality as well which he also wanted. Who else is worth 5 billion + Berries? Roger and WB, WB was stated to be able to destroy the world, either way if it were hyperbole or not still is very destructive and as dangerous as what was stated about the ancient weapons, His fruit is a tremor fruit which is one of the abilities of Poseidon. Roger on the other hand sailed the whole seas and found the One Piece, now we know that Roger was called a king. Kings are only Kings if they have Wealth, Power and Fame. As stated by the first intro for One Piece, he found a weapon in the grand line or Raftel. The way WG hand out bounties is by how big of a threat that person is. Now since Imu is seen to be interested to Luffy, Teach, Shirahoshi and Nefertari Vivi. Nefertari is a name to an ancient egyptian queen. This theory is incomplete, I am still unsure about some parts and it's very rushed and I am looking for guidance so let me know what you think guys.

[muted valley]

I need to read it fully but I believe the WG has a ancient weapon or equivalent. Just to have a saftey measure.

Kinda like having a gun in your house just incase someone breaks in. Being able to stop the worst is good.

[foggy gulch]

Imu might not consider himself a true king until he gets back what was stolen from him withch is the ancient weapons

[pure raven]

Yeah that's what I thought it was. and the safety key to it is the ope ope no mi

[pure raven]

Yep, Ope ope no mis immortality + the ancient weapons.

[foggy gulch]

Imu was probably really close to get all of those but joy boy fûcked up his plans

[muted valley]

Well I think Ope Ope is to dangerous outside the WG. That's why they want it.

Like they prolly won't use it. But if someone does give immortality to a threat. Then they are in danger

[lethal shoal]

What you think will come next episode ?

[muted valley]

Idk what happened last episode lol

[lethal shoal]

Zorro new power ?

[muted valley]

But It'd follow the manga.

Oh you mean chapter?

[lethal shoal]

Yeah

Manga chapter sry bro

[muted valley]

Either we cut to another fight. Like luffy vs kaido/queen vs sanji/momo and the gang. Or its zoro again

Seems we got 2 chapter fights then we switched characters previously, so I bank on it switching again

[pure raven]

Wano chapters have been W each chapter since the raid started

If episode 1000 broke the internet I think rooftop fight would too

[muted valley]

I think we will see kaido vs luffy soon

But I feel it's getting kinda rushed. (Not saying it's bad) but going semi quick in comparison to other interactions previously

[lethal shoal]

You think someone big will appear ?

Like dragon,shanks ? Some Caliber like that

[fiery linden]

I dont want 20 chapters on luffy again. I want to see the rest

[craggy pumice]

Idk Luffy hasn’t appeared at all since like 1026

I think around 1036 it’s time for us to switch back to Luffy

[abstract pond]

I think the others fights will end and then we'll get Luffy finishing the battle

[muted valley]

I personally think because we know the WG will annex wano if Kaido BM looses, along with BB stating "I won't let them take it" after reading the news, Shanks also talking about a "certain pirate". That there will be is war outside wano as well.

But I can see BB or Shanks(seriously injured) arriving at wano. Setting up the big showdown.

[grand walrus]

is it possible the assassin doffy mentioned the last time he was in the manga was actually shiryu intending to break him out?

[muted valley]

Lmao no

Impel down is near impenetrable why would he go back there? Especially after breaking out. Even going and getting him getting to and away from Impel Down is near impossible without flying.

Ontop of that the assassin is from WG because Doffy knows too much.

[tardy pulsar]

post wano is going to be insane

and morgan is about to eat so good

[solemn ferry]

Bruh i wonder what happen to Vivi and Sabo, Im was holding and bringing Vivi's picture when he/she was about to meet gorosei

[tardy pulsar]

Reverie theory: Bonnie killed Roswald bc of Kuma. Sabo arrived to free him and took Bonney with him too. When they ran into Fujitora, he lowkey let them go, but the government pinned the murder on Sabo to spite the revolutionaries. As for the attempted murder, Mosgard attacks St. Carlos for trying to kidnap, Shirahoshi, and the government wanted to cover it up to hide any internal strife among the celestials. Morgans is just exaggerating it as an attempted murder for the headlines

someone else’s theory but i like this one

[solemn ferry]

Tbh the Sabo one is weak for me. If Sabo's news was just about him killing a shitty celestial dragon then The Revolutionaries, Makino, and Dadan was overreacting, plus someone said about Sabo "And just after we found out he was alive".

[earnest atlas]

tashigi is kuina and she was brainwashed by the world goverment

[muted valley]

Sabo prolly got framed for killing King Neferatti

Since Wapol hates him, and gave info to Morgans.(Wapol isn't a good faith person)

We know Nerferatti wanted to bring up the polyniglyphs and his place as to why did they stay behind 800 years ago. Also bad health.(reason for them to snuff him out.)

Sabo while battling was framed for his death and battled then either was captured or died or got out with Bonny or some other person and is hurt badly.

@tardy pulsar

I don't see Sabo killing or touching a celestial dragon outside of a hostage but not hurt them. The revolutionarys are still trying to keep up an image of change and not trying to just outright kill people.

I feel they'd let the people decide the celestial dragons fates. That they are the ones unjust and people should decide not them, cause it makes them look like they want to usurp the power instead of just changing the power.

[tardy pulsar]

this is the theory i always go with i was just saying that i also liked that one but yeah it doesn’t seem likely after what you said

i just liked bonnie being used in it

what do you think about the theory going on about bb being crowned the false king of pirates if he manages to get kaidos devil fruit

[twilit dagger]

BB to get Kaido's devil fruit lets go

a lot of people will get pissed, but thats just an extra reason to do it haha

[muted valley]

She most definitely will be tied in, that's why I believe she will be with the revolutionary. Due to Kuma and her Queen title.

[muted valley]

I think it's possible, but he would just wipe everyone out.

I think hell clash with Shanks and marines outside wano.

[tardy pulsar]

yeah bb is killing shanks by the time the story ends

[twilit dagger]

I think BB getting Kaido's fruit would also no longer make Kaido a threat. Kaido defeated with still his DF.. he would still be himself.

[muted valley]

I have a crazy theory tho, so hear me out.

I believe Chopper is a better doctor than fighter. Now here me out on this. He is a doctor, his dream is to help cure all things, he helps more than fights.

[tardy pulsar]

nah

you wildin for that one

[twilit dagger]

once BB gets defeated imagine there would be 3 powerful DF on the freaking ground. WB's, BB's and Kaido's

[muted valley]

I believe if the 3 soul theory and 3 DFs for BB is real he will want another and it will be a zoan. But I don't believe it'll be Kaidos. He has a fish fruit. So he'd have to master it and get lucky to become a dragon.

Also I don't think it'd make kaido not a threat. As well as BB would have something more original.

[muted valley]

Damn sorry, it was a bit to crazy

[twilit dagger]

Kaido would die then? i mean so far BB got WB DF when he died

[amber oar]

this channel isn't to jokingly state the obvious though

[muted valley]

Also marines are ready to annex wano, and Shanks will likley fight BB to prevent it as he is worried about BB

[tardy pulsar]

the most popular reason for kaido’s df being taken is the fact that kaido has the most powerful zoan and if he gets his he would have all 3 types of df and the most powerful df of each type

mannnnn post wanooooo i need it

[muted valley]

Report me for stating my crazy "theory" while also keeping up with other theory talks.

[twilit dagger]

he is so crazy powerful together with whitebeard's DF, like now he is unstoppable imagine with a 3rd one lol

[tardy pulsar]

keep this theory related please

[tardy pulsar]

especially with CoC haki

[muted valley]

Think about what it would mean for BB to enter Wano after the battles where each side is completely tired out and easy to knock off.

[twilit dagger]

that would be a feast unless marines, shanks and some other people join in the party that will keep them busy

[muted valley]

As well as Marines outside wano and Shanks who Def will have a interaction with BB

[tardy pulsar]

i don’t agree with the theory at all i’m not one of those that believe he’s heading to wano

[twilit dagger]

Nami vs 9-tailed fox

[tardy pulsar]

at first i believed he was going to whole cake since it’s unprotected right now but i’m not sure

[twilit dagger]

or he just came from there

[tardy pulsar]

easy ponegrife

[muted valley]

Ok, then mind if I ask this, during the time when news of BM&Kaido alliance as it was talked about by marines. Shanks also brought up "a certain pirate" to Geirosei(its BB), BB had a scene where he stated "I ain't going to let them take it, let's head out." Where was BB going do you think and what was "it"?

And who was "they"

We all don't know so no wrong answers

[twilit dagger]

also im-sama had luffy's BB and shirahoshi's bounty pages cut so thats gonna be interesting in how im could fit into it all

[tardy pulsar]

yeah i have no idea that’s why i’ve just been asking for your opinion on things

[amber oar]

Kata and a bunch of others stayed behind, it's not fully unprotected. Teach can beat him but probably would rather sneak into like Roger did

[tardy pulsar]

yeah it’s just kat and cracker guy that has most of the fire power but bb crew can take them out with no problem. i think bb would just fight for it because he’s collecting devil fruits and IF and it’s a big if, he’s aware of kat’s mochi fruit and how he uses it while it’s awakened he’d definitely want it.

[muted valley]

Oh, ok gotcha

So I think because Garp insinuated things always defy our expectations.

As well as Shanks bringing up BB

And BB talking about them and taking it.

(These 3 happened at the same time 1 chapter after another implying a common connection)

We know cp0 will annex wano of yonko loose and marines are ready incase.

BB will head for wano and try to do something. That Shanks will fight BB there with the marines. That after wano the power dynamic changes drastically. Where the 3 yonko were defeated. Bm/kaido/Shanks. Leaving a huge power vacuum. However our side the straw hats won't know till after the battle and after everything. Also will find out about Shanks.

Oda said wano ends with a tragedy. I can only think 3 things. Sabo dead, Robin kidnapped, Shanks died, or a SH dies(lowest possible thing, besides Jinbie).

Also luffy lost Sabos vivre card. Which something happened to him. So I think we might see something with Luffy teaming up with revs sooner than later.

[tardy pulsar]

yeah this makes more sense

i think shanks dies because i’ve always believed bb will kill shanks no doubt about it actually

i don’t think sabo is dead just yet, i don’t think a character with that much importance to luffy would get off screened like that

robin kidnapped + shanks died ez

[muted valley]

Everyone does, red flags out the wazzoo

[amber oar]

So I think because Garp insinuated things always defy our expectations.

As well as Shanks bringing up BB

And BB talking about them and taking it.

(These 3 happened at the same chapter IRC implying a common connection)

1 and 2 happened in ch.907, 3 happened in ch.956

Actually the Teach panel happened as everyone is reading the news of Sabo/Alabasta

[muted valley]

I don't think he died either. I think the Morgans hush money was actually about King Nefirttiti(vivis dad) dieing and Rev army there. But wapol pinned it on him.

Then I was wrong, ty for correction

[tardy pulsar]

what do you guys think about the theory about the possible marineford 2.0 with sabo

[amber oar]

the idea is boring and takes from the emotional weight the og Marineford had

[tardy pulsar]

with the whole “just when i found out he was alive” and bb “i’m not gonna let them have it” people really seem to like the idea

[tardy pulsar]

fair

[muted valley]

Also the shibukai are all being arrested so BB is going after something he refuses to let the marines take during a time where their resources are thinned out. Which I doubt is alabasta,, still believe its wano. But there are other possible things. But I can't think what else atm

Oda did have a pic that he posted of arcs. There's a revolutionary arc. Marineford 2.0 will be war against the WG IMO. Which may be related to Sabo but my current theory is he isn't dead.

[tardy pulsar]

if marineford 2.0 happens i think garp will learn from his mistakes and end up choosing family this time over his job even though sabo isn’t his grandson he’ll do it for luffy

[amber oar]

I mean yes, people who like battles want to see another big ass war. But Oda has always said One Piece is mostly about the narration, the story, the drama. In his own words if he tried to make a battle manga he'd lose to Dragon Ball. And narratively another Marineford is boring.

There will be another war anyway, Oda already said it. But the build up, motivations and the factions will be very different.

[muted valley]

A giant war worse than marineford has been hinted at multiple times. While I don't believe a Sabo execution prevention with him dying is going to happen. I can see luffy and the revs teaming up with/without strawhat grand fleet to attack WG. But I think that's a later wvent

[tardy pulsar]

that and he really hates celestial dragons

[amber oar]

yes, I just commented on that

[muted valley]

Garp won't be apart of it. He's in East blue protecting it. He "retired" he will learn of it through news.

[tardy pulsar]

oh slipped my mind

[muted valley]

We were less than 30 sec apart lol. Can't read all the posts and finish my statement.

But yeah, there is some revolutionary army arc soon.

Also Rev army has to have a Sabo vivre card. They'd know if he died.

Also luffy had one but lost it as he landed on wano when he got sucked into whirlpool didn't every strawhat get one tho..?

[amber oar]

I think Nami said they found it
Also that card is Luffy's, not Sabo's

[muted valley]

I swore Sabo gave him his

[tardy pulsar]

yeah it was luffy’s

[amber oar]

Sabo made one for Luffy and took a piece

[tardy pulsar]

i remember i’m pretty sure he said “it’s only natural for a big brother to worry about his lil brother”

something along those lines

[muted valley]

You're right just looked

@amber oar how did you know the chapters earlier so quick?

I roughly do it in my head. But I'm not accurate and am about 20 chapters off normally.

[amber oar]

I know approximates, often I'm 3-5 off. But there's a few I have memorized. Levely is pretty short, 903-908, so it's hard to get lost. The first Wano interlude is 925, and the second is 956-957

[muted ember]

Garp was headed to Alabasta last time we seen him. He's de facto retired but he still has his marine rank

[muted valley]

Ah similar to me, by arcs.

[muted ember]

Sanji found it

[muted valley]

Then that changes my thoughts. Wonder if it is Alabasta BB is heading to and if Garp is the one who gets killed.

[amber oar]

was Garp heading to Alabasta? Last we saw him is returning from Fishman Island

[muted ember]

I think Garp might be the "Ace" of a so-called Marineford 2.0

[muted valley]

What chapter is the Garp going to alabasta talk? It isn't 956 when he talked with Neptune

[solid badger]

Last we’ve seen Garp is him leaving fishman island. Direction unknown

[muted valley]

He only mentioned a event at revire regarded Alabasta kingdom

[solid badger]

To Neptune. And then he left

[amber oar]

he says the Navy is trying to resolve it, but never says he's going there

[muted ember]

It's 956 he hinted that he had to leave bc of the report about Alabasta

And it's a week after the Reverie

He said he can't stay for long given the circumstances and has his monologue about Alabasta

"Full resources" means their sending as many powerful Marines as they can imo Garp is one of them

[muted valley]

I don't think Garp going is too out of the question, but I didn't take it that way.

Even that leave early part It feels way to subtle for odas writing. More like a Kuba foreshadow. But at the same time a whole lot is going on with the marines. That I can see it but I don't think it is there.

[muted ember]

But u see the panel that says this is a week after the Reverie right?

[muted valley]

Yes

But even in the 956 I'm reading I don't see the full resources part revolving the marines. Post it pls

Also what scans you using? I'm TCB if I recall on this one

[muted ember]

It's in the panel posted above

[muted ember]

U see the panel I'm talking about tho?

[muted valley]

Yeah this is the ones previous to it, with the last picture I posted the one before this

[amber oar]

viz. Can't link it because it's that one site Discord doesn't like for some reason.

I just got muted one minute just by writing the domain lol

[muted valley]

Dm it**

[amber oar]

I did it, the comment auto deletes

[muted ember]

I can confirm it's Viz

[amber oar]

Ah, DM it. I thought you were saying defiantly "do it" lol

[muted valley]

I'd like to see instead of having to get on comp and opening my pdf

[solid badger]

Garp is retired, I don’t think he’s taking part in whatever cleanup is being done

Even if he was ordered to he would/wouldn’t do it based on his own good morals

[muted valley]

I see it now ty

[muted ember]

He's retired in name only he's still a ranked marine

[muted valley]

Sry bout that, anyway. I still don't take that as him going but him picking up slack.

Not that I'm saying he CANT be going just see it as unlikley

[amber oar]

Also, the wording is "related to Alabasta". So it's not guaranteed to happen specifically in Alabasta.
It looks more like the incident triggered a crisis overall, which is what we see in 957.

It's like several crisis pilling up. Something about Alabasta, the Warlord dissolution, and then Big Mom and Kaido's alliance

[muted valley]

Also don't forget Shibukai are getting rounded up at the same time

[muted ember]

The stuff in 957 happened before Garp's conversation

[muted valley]

So navy forces are thin and used up.

I am curious cause Coby is going to Amazon Lily, curious if he and Boa will crush over Luffy

I say yes, just cause of the running trope of him doing it.

He might be gay for luffy and it'll protect from Mero Mero fruit. Altho I doubt lol

[muted ember]

I think most of that stuff is settled by the time Garp talks to Neptune we just didn't see the results

[sand sail]

It's not, Garp's conversation with Neptune is just before they even go to pursue the Warlords

[muted valley]

That's more what I believe, also helping out take up slack

[muted ember]

The narrator says it happened earlier in time

The events we see after Garp's conversation that is

[sand sail]

No, Morgans getting the paper out is what happened earlier in time, the warlords and everything happens after

[muted ember]

But the abolition of the warlords is in the paper? How could it happen after?

[muted valley]

Also the garp Neptune talk is prior to the narrator stating its a week after revire

Oops didn't mean to reply, ment to post normally. Sorry

But it is what you said

[muted ember]

Neptune was at the Reverie so the fact that he's back at FMI means it happened after the Reverie attendees head home, a week after the Reverie's conclusion

[muted valley]

Fishman isle is close to marijoise

So it makes sense it isn't a week to travel there. As it is right below the redline

[muted ember]

Yea that's why Neptune is already back while the other attendees are heading back

[muted valley]

I also assume Vivis dad talked to geirosei after it ended

Makes sense politics wise instead of smack dab in middle when they're doing paperwork and stuff for what events are unfolding

Stelly looked at paper, what environment was he in?

[sand sail]

Garp is leaving Fishman Island during the conversation in 957, it all happens long after he speaks with Neptune

They reference dissolving and going after the warlords here, too, so we know it all happened after

[amber oar]

sea

bear in mind that FMI is literally below Mary Geoise. So the trip would be much shorter than all the way to Goa

[sand sail]

Yeh, and it looks like everyone left at the same time, so him being on the sea at this time works

[muted ember]

So was the Big News stuff just earlier that same day?

[sand sail]

No, it was earlier than that

The paper gets out around the time the kings are leaving

That's why we're told they're leaving a week after reverie, but, "Earlier in time" is when we get Morgans at the paper

[muted ember]

So the warlords were abolished already before the kings left right?

[sand sail]

Yes, they're the ones who make the decision

[muted valley]

Ty and I did say that about FMI

[sand sail]

The kings voted at reverie to have the warlords disbanded

[muted ember]

And that would have happened a week ago right?

[sand sail]

Yeh, they depart a week after Reverie. Before they depart, Morgans makes the news

They get the news on their way home

[muted ember]

How long after the vote do u think Morgans published the paper?

Oh nvm

It's like a couple days before they depart or something right?

[tardy pulsar]

you get CoC haki off ambition and will right?

[muted valley]

Yeah

To sum it up, at least that's how I saw it.

[modest skiff]

Don't think we can say that for sure yet

[pure raven]

what contradicts it

[modest skiff]

I wouldn't say anything directly contradicts it yet, just pointing out it doesn't feel certain yet

I would hesitate to use it as a fundamental assumption for other theories, but it appears likely in some way

[pure raven]

i see

[muted valley]

1 in million is also another thing, that it's for the most extreme cases of a strong will and fiery ambition.

Both luffy and Zoro said they'd rather die than walk away from events and desires they had.

[modest skiff]

So far it has appeared to just be a matter of extreme will, but it really does appear there is something more to it than that

[muted ember]

One more question. Is the day the Marines surround the warlords the same day ppl got the news? Or before/after?

[sand sail]

Hard to say, there's no word of it being the next day but there's no real telling

The decision would've been made and in action before the news went out, so maybe during?

It wouldn't be before, at the least, it has to be after I think

[muted valley]

I'd assume the marines surrounding them is roughly time the news got sent out. Due to the Marines knowing before anyone else and taking time to arrive.

[sinful helm]

after the decision before the news came out

[muted valley]

Also if it went out before the shibukai would know

[sinful helm]

no point in letting them prepare

[muted valley]

^

[muted ember]

So assuming Big News made the story a few days after, the Marines started moving 1 or 2 days after the vote?

[modest skiff]

We really just don't know

[muted ember]

Also it seems like Mihawk knew the vote was going to happen in 925? He warned Perona and BB said that it was only the 4th day of the Reverie

[muted ember]

I feel like my timeline still fucked up w all the clarification lol

[modest skiff]

I think Majere's basic logic of not giving the warlords a heads up makes sense. But we know Morgans gets leaks. So anyone from Reverie could have leaked the info right after the vote and before any navy action.

[muted valley]

The timelines hard to follow.

We also don't know if the paper specifically talked about what was discussed at reviere I assume it did to am extent. Like a court room/ irl political meeting.

[sand sail]

Well, they did try to stop him from printing what happened at Reverie in general, too

[muted valley]

It is a week long event, so there are many discussions. I'd assume from inner politics to pirates to state of the world to revs ect...

[modest skiff]

True, but we don't know specifically which info they wanted to keep out

[sand sail]

He beats down the CP agent who tries to strong arm him into it, and Wapol calls him with new immediately after. But, we only know the warlords knew about the vote before, Mihawk didn't reference anything except it coming up and having a bad feeling about it

[muted ember]

956 gives us the gist of what was in the paper. It was the stuff about Sabo, whatever the gov't wanted to cover up, and the abolition of the warlords

There could be more but we know that for sure bc of the reactions

[weary rose]

Wow, this channel is so peaceful compared to last night.

[muted ember]

The dude who was talking like that is permabanned from BDA discord I think he's trying to avoid getting reported here

[tardy pulsar]

i swear i feel like it’s been stated before (but i could be wrong)

[muted valley]

I'm specifically talking when mihawk talked to perona

[bitter kraken]

Yeah Mihawk did seem to know a little more than most at the time, unless he has super advanced future sight lol which prolly isn’t the case

[sand sail]

He was reading the paper

[muted valley]

That's what I was referring to. I assume as each day reviere ended they let the world know the basic info of what was discussed the previous day

Like the g8 summit kinda

[muted ember]

My fault I forgot I even brought that up lol

[abstract pond]

I'm betting the newspaper says that Sabo died but Morgans lied

[last lily]

I'm thinking that Lunarians came from one of multiple moons around the one piece world.

If something named after the Moon like Lunar. That where my mind goes. Wonder if Lunarians are Fans of Kid Cudi.

[rare rose]

Hear me out guys. Doesn't Dr.Kuhera look similar to the shadow image for the Rocks crew. This could be big mom but think about it big mom would be much fatter, and the outline pose looks similar to what Dr.Kuhera usually does

[night karma]

No

[pure raven]

How about this one?

Think this will happen anythime soon?

[ancient vault]

big mom was skinny when she was young. Thats Big Mom

[ancient vault]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using #manga-theories for any joke theories you may have. This channel is strictly for serious discussion on the realm of possibilities one truly believes in, and can explain in a manner that conveys why. Please consider this a general warning.

[pure raven]

?

[tardy pulsar]

no way morgan would do that. morgan holds the most influence and he’s aware that if he completely lies he’ll lose credibility and people wouldn’t take him serious which for a journalist, credibility means everything

[ancient vault]

What? You cant read?

[pure raven]

I meant where to post the theories then

[weak arrow]

If you're theories are mostly jokes or memes, you could post them in #also-manga or #manga. This channel is our 1 channel that is dedicated to serious discussion.

A lot of people believe Usopp will get a weapon upgrade in Elbaf and making a theory about that is alright, but posting a wellknown image doesn't really suffice for a theory.

[pure raven]

No this was a fan manga made by someone else so I wanted to know you guys's thoughts if it could happen

[abstract pond]

You mean Morgan who said: Sometimes I spin lies and make people dance

[arctic lagoon]

That would be sick like everyone thinks it’s going to be a prank weapon but in reality it’s the real thing but requires a warriors spirit to lift and Usopp despite being weak is still able to overcome those fears which is all that matters in the end.

It will be the sign that he finally became a brave warrior of the sea.

[pure raven]

Ya totally agree

[arctic lagoon]

Usopp will get Conquerors haki in elbaf

I know this because oda is my personal friend.

[pure raven]

wow damn that would be lit

[spring cloak]

this is a very cool connection

[high sierra]

[muted valley]

All good

[languid plaza]

guys one piece has magic

[muted valley]

Morgans didn't lie, Wapol lied. I believe

Morgans specifically said 2 events, a death and the Rev army(Sabo)

As if they wernt connected. The death is likley King Nefferati, as he was sick, he also was questioning the wg and the reason his family stayed behind, and void century. So I believe he was snuffed out.

Sabo encountered the admirals and stuff.

Wapol a person who is evil and in bad faith gave Morgans a scoop. So whatever in the paper is false imo.

I believe they pinned the death on Sabo.

Altho it could say he died, the Rev army HAS to have his vivre card. That would prove if he did. But if Sabo was framed for killing the King, it would be huge negative press for the revs. Which plays into what the WG wants, to frame the revs as true evil usurpers.

[ancient vault]

The reactions of the rev army and in particular dardans and makimo just doesnt fit tho.

The way theyre talking is like sabo just died. Not like he killed someone.

[weak arrow]

Either Sabo died or Sabo captured & sentenced for execution

[solemn ferry]

I just can't understand why a losing and weakened Big Mom would flee to Elbaf instead of her own territory, the giants clearly have a beef toward her.

[pure raven]

just a question

but is the One Piece movie: Red canon or just discarded

[weak arrow]

We’re not gonna know till after we know what’s in the film. And even then people will argue over canonicity, but the answer is likely no

[spring cloak]

yeah, i can't really wrap my head around this point, but i'll believe in oda sensei.

[abstract pond]

Morgans himself said that he sometimes lies to make people dance. It wouldn't be impossible for him to lie about it.

[muted ember]

I think he lied about the attampted murder bc he said it w a question mark

[muted valley]

Forgot about that

Actually thinking about it, it could be vivi

Cause it'd end the blood line as cobra dies soon. Also vivi had a knife in vivi right?

[muted ember]

The knife was in Shirahoshi

[twilit dagger]

i think Sabo's celestial dragon brother will save sabo

[amber oar]

Nah, Stelly is too much of a jerk.

But he still gives me the feeling that he's going to do something relevant. I mean, he's a generic asshole noble, but unusually ambitious. Even nobles fear CDs, but Stelly walked into the empty throne and his first thought was "I want it". He's greedy even by noble standards.

Plus it's hinted he killed Goa's king and prince to ascend to the throne (his wife was the princess)

[modest skiff]

I'd say its a bit more than hinted

[night karma]

How

I wanna see i am interested now

[night karma]

Where is it hinted that Sabo’s brother killed the Goa King?

[amber oar]

It says he ascended to the throne after the mysterious death of both the king and the prince.

[modest skiff]

and i think he already poisoned at least 1 person previously, IIRC

[modest skiff]

1033 chapters and you guys are able to be like "yeah i can go find that". its amazing

[night karma]

Hmmmm

[left barn]

Does anyone think it’s possible that it isn’t devils within the fruits but actually the souls of people.

We know that the fish men can control water, lunarians can use fire and the minks had the power of electricity. What if there were many different cultures with many different abilities. There were also humans around who had zero abilities but had the largest population. They then decided to make a change and somehow take the power of those people and put them into fruits in order to give themselves powers they never had. The only downside is that part of the personality and wants (the will) of those who got killed to make the fruits were infused as well.

It ties into the will side of things being passed through the fruit (Ace and Sabo for example) and to the fact that most races are in the minority. The person who had Ace’s fruit originally could have been a Lunarian? Perhaps the Mythical Zoans or Zoan users are just experiments that were made where the soul of those creatures were put into fruits, and that’s why so many Smile fruits can be made with different animals.
Perhaps the personality and ideals that we see go between Ace and Sabo, or Big Mama and Mother Carmel is actually from someone very far back.

Perhaps the reason they are called devil fruits is because the humans deemed all of those races as devils as they had powers that were stronger than theirs. It happened when in the Romans called everyone outside of their borders “Germanic”, but really there were many different tribes. They were using Germanic like we would use barbarians. They also tried to suggest that the Germanic people were simple people, but archeology has suggested otherwise.

A mass genocide because one race felt inferior and the history erased so that no one knew this was possible. It’s possible I think.

[night karma]

Ty for that!

[night karma]

Fr

[weary rose]

Panels are pretty easy to find

[amber oar]

not all the time. Pretty often by the time I found one, the topic already moved on

[weary rose]

Unless the subject of conversation in them is obscure

[novel zephyr]

Humans are able to use fishman karate and i assume that includes moving/controlling water Its also not something all fishmen can do, while all minks can do electro

[amber oar]

I find easier to find post timeskip panels. Maybe I should reread the first part, there are passages I haven't revisited in 13 years

[left barn]

Have we seen a human controlling water with it?

[novel zephyr]

No, but we've also never seen a fishman control water unless they were a master of fishman karate, its not a racial ability of theirs

[left barn]

Ok, perhaps control is the wrong word, but they are strengthened once in the water right

[weary rose]

Google has gotten pretty good with their search engine with panels tbh. As long as you provide a good enough description of what’s included in the panel it should be right there.

[novel zephyr]

Yeah thats true they are

[muted valley]

He's not a celestial dragons, Wana be one.

Ultra Chad who married into the royalty and has ambitious of a real king. (Likley coc user)

But he had resentment to Sabo so he wouldn't. Besides why would he risk his power for a rebel. He's gotta divorce his wife and marry Saint Sharlia. So he can take his true liferight as a celestial dragon then politic his way and achieve his rightful seat at the center of the world.

[fathom matrix]

Yaknow, that's an interesting idea. There was another theory in the community, where whenever a concept exists, so does a devil fruit. Doors, tools, plastic. If it exists, so does that devil fruit.

Maybe sacrifices were done to make them, but it can taken either way. Either it be the sacrifice of a clan/people to have their souls be used to make then, or the fruits used stolen DNA from clans/corposes that reworked to their benefit

[heady parrot]

to add on to this i think the inclusion of dinosaurs in the one piece verse having strange abilities (pterodactyls stretching their parts, rocket launchers popping out of backs, helicopter tails etc) is not just a joke but also a way for oda to write some of the weirder paramecia type abilities like baby 5s fruit into something that could also be explained as a natural ability that could be manipulated into appearing on someone else via the lineage factor.

[fathom matrix]

maybe there's signals involved? I know that sounds weird, but what if by a scientific way, DF have signals and wavelengths that mutate that change the body?

And so when someone dies, they still keep that DNA change to their physical structure, but that signal moves on to a compatible host (a fruit) and changes it to be a new power giving object

to mutate someone else's genes

So the lineage factor was used to make the power, but like with signals, that information is stored, and when passed on to someone else, that information changes their DNA

I mean, hell, Chopper's rumble ball and black maria's science/medicines helped change the wavelength of their devil fruits

key word wavelength

What if that's the reason why they reincarnate for too? Maybe back at the void century, they can't afford to lose their powers, so they reworked their fruits to reincarnate to a new one, so that a new solider/rebel/whatever can have that power

[muted valley]

Well since swords and things have souls and will(like enma and rogers voice of all things), it wouldn't be wild to think things like rubber, mochi, ect... had some sort of inherent soul.

But I think vegapunk was stated to study DF and the lineage factor irc right. Which has a big thing relating to passing down will and stuff motif that runs with the narrative has a big factor.

But that doesn't explain souls having souls for the soul soul fruit. Or whatever the hell Bara Bara "soul" would cone from.

[left barn]

Perhaps they are not reincarnating, just the souls are moving on to the next "body" (in this case a fruit). That is a theme that is commonly thought about, "lost souls" not finding the afterlife and just wondering around until their "goal" is accomplished. Perhaps the "goal" is for everyone to be equal again and that's what releases them.

[left barn]

I don't think there are too many who have natural abilities like King (fire), who have eaten Devil fruits. Perhaps the two abilities combine when they pass on?

I know Vander Decken was one, but his Fishman ability is rendered useless due to eating the fruit.

[muted valley]

It's likley his genes not df ability. He's a Lunarian, who can survive in any environment.

Wouldn't be surprising to see a race like thay conjor fire.

[left barn]

His Devil Fruit is the dinosaur one. The fire is from his natural ability/genes.

[weak plaza]

Why not disappear and run!```
Sound like something a family member or a father, an uncle and a teacher would say.

Sus since the beginning this b!tch

Anybody else think he is somehow relate to Sanji ?

[dull pumice]

Nah

[muted valley]

By far one of the wackiest and least grounded theories I have seen

I been wondering what race Hannibal and Magellans race was.

Hannibal could summin fire and survive easily naked in level 5 impel down naked.

Hid childhood concept

Reminds me of a tribal person

Wonder if he has some relation to lunarians

Tho it has no wings

[oblique isle]

Judge probably put lunarian dna in Sanji

[hybrid ledge]

most likely

cuz sanji can technically conjure fire too

[junior cape]

No technically about it. He can summon fire.

[spring cloak]

this makes me think he's a lunarian

king could have been a jailer in impel down

because of this connection, magellan and hannyabal have similar kind of wings to king, and they are from impel down.

and that childhood picture of hannyabal shows that he maybe could have conjure flames and he looks like a shandian.

[muted ember]

Shandians have wings tho

[spring cloak]

yeah that's true and more likely right?

[muted ember]

What's more likely?

[spring cloak]

magellan and hannyabal being shandians

[muted valley]

Well one of Roger's crew had black wings

We have seen those people around

Also I do believe King was a Jailer. He has the attire and demeanor of one

[amber oar]

Doringo

[pure raven]

Doesn't looks like a skypiean or a lunarian tbh

[amber oar]

last month: "Everyone is a Shimotsuki"
this month: "Everyone is a lunarian"

Then again, Magellan, Doringo and Hannyabal's wings are batlike, King's are birdlike. No reason to assume a connection

[muted valley]

Ty, but we have seen many people with without wings.

Look at what's his name in Wano. The Tengu looking blacksmith with Tama with wings. When they visited the festival his wings were gone

[night jewel]

both magellan and hannyabal dont have wings, they are just accessories

iirc doringo could fly with his wings, so maybe his are real

[amber oar]

wait, we've seen Doringo flying?

[muted valley]

I wonder if for some people it is a fashion sense over a real physical attribute.

Also Enel didn't have wings

[muted ember]

Magellan wings are not like Shandians and Hannibal doesn't have any

[night jewel]

yep

[muted valley]

Where was that stated? After the impel down stuff Maggelan was back and he had his wings "mended" and I doubt if it's just a accessory he'd have to go and patch the tears up with metal like he did.

Also wings don't mean you can fly, like a kiwi, it's just part of their body.

He got seriously screwed up from the fight with BB and lol 6 prisoners.

I don't see why they'd not get him new wings if it's just a accessory.

[night jewel]

no wings

also horns are removable too, he fought with the horns in hand once

[muted valley]

When* did he use his horns

[night jewel]

and hannyabal

[muted valley]

I already posted that

[night jewel]

ah you did, mb

[muted valley]

Ok 534

I completely forgot about that.

[manic relic]

In Wano arc we learned about coated CoC haki

1. Roger & Whitebeard flashback coated sword and spear with CoC
2. Zoro ashura vs Kaido
3. Zoro last chapter lightning on 3 swords
4. Luffy asking to Kaido about if he is hitting Luffy with CoC and is figuring a way to do the same

So I can assume Luffy can’t control to fuse his attacks with CoC? But then why did we saw lightning when Luffy clashed with Doffy toe on toe if he can’t coat attacks with CoC? Whats the difference?

[muted valley]

I thought it was advanced coc

Where the haki was projected outside the body like a shield and not on it

And it flows into objects like the collars and cuffs

[muted ember]

When 2 conquerors clash the Haki can leak out in the form of lightning, but u can also see this during normal Haki clashes its just not as pronounced, so it's not advanced conquerors

[muted valley]

I took it as he was using the number 4 point in general

But yeah, it's COC clashing. Like when Luffy VS kata and they did a CoC staredown.

Also Don Chinoji vs Luffy Thor Giant Pistol vs Drill.

[pure raven]

You know I wanted to ask if let's say that King has COC do y'all think there would be A COC clash between him and zoro?

[muted ember]

Yes

[muted valley]

This 500%, no way it wouldn't happen. Especially as Zoro's first coc battle.

[pure raven]

Also it seems that The COC clash is reserved for the Yonkos

[errant oxide]

Gotta save that moment for zoro vs Mihawk

[muted ember]

Some fans will be heated when Mihawk and Zoro split the sky

[muted valley]

I can see it, why get pissed?

Mihawk and Shanks were rivals, it's not to outrageous to think mihawk turning down Shanks after his loss isn't due to him just not being able to compete.

[muted ember]

A lot of fans want Luffy to be far above Zoro, I seen ppl questioning Oda's writing bc Zoro got advanced conquerors in the same battle as Luffy

[obsidian charm]

is this magellean?

[muted ember]

Yes

[obsidian charm]

oh

[patent summit]

But luffy had a Coc clash with kata

[pure raven]

I mean the kind which splits the skys

[patent summit]

Oh right

[pure raven]

I mean we are inside the castle rn so no sky splitting

But you know how Roger and WB clashed and their blades didn't touch? I mean that kind for zoro and King using Adv cov

If king knows that is

[patent summit]

It will probably look more like the clash with luffy and kata where the surroundings get blown up

[pure raven]

Yeh

[muted ember]

I'm pretty sure the not touching thing is advanced armament not conquerors

Luffy, Roger, and Whitebeard were combining both

[patent summit]

The not touching thing could be both armament or conq. The thing is that black lightning is emitted when using advance conq

[muted ember]

Kaido's attacks always touch ppl tho, and when him and Big Mom clashed they made contact but they still split the sky

[patent summit]

But when luffy realized he could imbue his attacks with CoC he didnt touch kaido iirc

[pure raven]

But you don't need to make contact on COC too

[muted ember]

Yea bc he also has advanced armament which he learned from Hyo

[pure raven]

He wasn't using it

[muted ember]

He was

[pure raven]

He was using pure adv COC with kaido

[muted ember]

No

[pure raven]

Oh wait nvm

[muted ember]

He was damaging Kaido w advanced armament up to that point but said his damage was too shallow

[proud tree]

So.. it's combined armament with Coc?

[pure raven]

It doesn't touches and also Makes black lightning

[muted ember]

That's my interpretation, but imo it explains why Kaido's conquerors attacks smash into ppl while Luffy's don't make contact at all

[pure raven]

It seems he was using it half and half? He did use pure COC too

[muted ember]

Another thing is Roger's conquerors slash hit Oden physically, but when he clashed w WB he didn't. I'm assuming he only needed conquerors for Oden bc he was below him, but had to use both against WB who is on the same level

[patent summit]

Hmmm roger did imbue his sword with armament before he clashed with WB

Oh wait nvm

[muted valley]

Mihawks first appearance even stated luffys goal is a much more arduous battle than Zoros. Doesn't mean luffy won't be equal with mihawk.

We saw Rayleigh could do advanced CoC techniques. But it wouldn't make him better than roger.

Haki* not coc

[muted ember]

Idk about the manga in the anime they both coat their weapons

But when he hit Oden his sword was still normal

https://youtu.be/UOZpCJhxv-w

[abstract pond]

Sentomaru did attacks without touching too

The not touching part could be advanced haki

And conquerors maybe make the distance even bigger because is stronger

Or maybe is just the two opponents using it that make it big

[weak plaza]

I read lots of Korean and Chinese novel.
That’s the word usually come out from those like I have described

[weak plaza]

Oh sh!t then Blackbeard really is in wano ?

[muted valley]

Oh, I see. I'm unaware of their common phrases in family life.

I think reading the actual jap scans and translating it would be more beneficial to a accurate words and phrasing..

However, you have to remember King was fighting Raid Suit Sanji. Who litterally could do those things.

There's a theory that Sanjis Diablo Jambel is actually due to his altered DNA and that he has Lunarian DNA in him. Hence the fire, also kinda makes sense since it seems Lunarians have similar iron bodies like the other vinsmokes. Judge did work with Queen/Vegapunk/Ceaser and we know Vegapunk and Judge did DNA editing. So I don't believe it's too far fetched he'd use DNA for qualities of a race that made bodies strong in his own child creations.

Also I have a theory and would bet on BB IS traveling to Wano.

[solar knoll]

I have a theory BB is going to get Charlotte Pudding in WCI. If BB is aiming for the one piece he will need some sort of way to read the polyglyphs. And knowing BB he isn’t the sort of person who would try face off Kaido or BM head on. But since he learnt BM is on the way to Wano I can sorta see him trying to get pudding to do his work.

[muted ember]

What if Blackbeard can read them?

[fathom matrix]

Damn, we haven't seen kaido v luffy in ages.

Wonder what's gonna happen?

[chilly dragon]

Hannyabal looking happy for once.

[fathom matrix]

My idea: Luffy manages to beat kaido, but the Island's about to fall, but at the last minute, momonosuke's able to create anough clouds to stop onigeshima from falling

[muted ember]

U know Momo is already pulling the island right?

[chilly dragon]

The question isn't if Onigashima lands, but where it lands.
Is it going to fall on land? or will it be brought back to the coast?

[fathom matrix]

I doubt that's gonna work for long enough.

[muted valley]

While that isn't implausible. BBs last scene said rhwy were heading out and about not letting the marines take "it". What would "it" be?

[fathom matrix]

Like, he might be able to prolongue the innevitable, but it's it won't 100% work

[solar knoll]

“It” for BB could be Eye Eye Girl

[muted valley]

The marines were aiming for that?

[muted ember]

Well as long as it doesn't fall on the capitol he doesn't necessarily have to keep lifting it

[muted valley]

^ I believe it'll fall just before the city.

[solar knoll]

Highly doubt BB would be able to read the Polyglyphs

[muted ember]

I thought it would actually land on the capital but now idk

[muted valley]

One theory someone had was he is a three eyed tribe person.

However he likley would just capture Robin or go to the tribe and get one who Can read them. Not like Pudding whose a hybrid and we don't know if she ever will be able to.

[muted valley]

I think it'd be a tragedy beyond belief if it happens. It'll prolly be more like Noah and Fishman isle. Where it almost hits and then it gets carried away.

[solar knoll]

I don’t know I always look things from a writers perspective. Why bring up pudding has the potential to read polyglyphs not to use it in the future.

And why would BM already just capture Three Eye Tribe people to force them to read the polyglyphs

[muted ember]

Act 3 is supposed to end in a great tragedy tho

[muted valley]

I saw the tragedy as someone dies

[solar knoll]

My theory is The three eye tribe is already wiped out by the WG and pudding is the last one left

[muted valley]

I read a thing about Japanese theater and it was a big trope with the act 3 in plays that they ended like that

Like we can't say for sure obv, but I think it was for the SHs Russ.

I think Robin will get kidnapped. It's been stated she's the key figure and in huge danger, stating people want her and will kidnap her. They will need to read the polyniglyphs. She's head over heels for sanji. Also the plot point about her stealing a certain memory from him.

I think it'll cause her to really support them fully if Sanji pretty much shows he does find her beautiful and wasn't lying to her.

[ancient vault]

I made a theory on this and how caribou will play a role in this. Its pinned called „the 925 squad”

Or well more so on how he will get his hands on wano poneglyphs

How he reads them idk

[muted valley]

That supports my theory BB last panel about heading out and preventing the Marines from taking it is referring to Wano.

I do believe BB does see Luffy as a threat and candidate.

Also with your theory, the calls between bm and kaido were open and they talked about Luffy in wano if I recall.

But I agree, he does have some knowledge of Wano.

The marines are waiting to annex Wano, I think they'll clash with BB. Also think Shanks might arrive to stop him.

[sinful helm]

he may send shiryu with his fruit too infiltrate wano but i doubt he will go there too fight 2 yonko + supernovas + wg

[ripe geyser]

Judge cried when he got betrayed by the BM pirates. He’s a pretty mean guy and it seems like he removed emotions from his kids in order for them to be reliable human weapons… but doesn’t it seem like Judge would have more complex reasons that that to remove emotions as well as provide exoskeletons? Perhaps he had to do savage things in the past even he himself felt terrible for doing and so he removed emotions from his kids so that they didn’t have to suffer through the same weakness and pain Judge went through in the past. What do y’all think of this? I’m aware there isn’t much this could lead to so I’m prepared for criticism.

[bitter kraken]

We’ll judge knew that sanji’s emotions were not gone and he still treated him like trash, put a metal mask on him and threw him in their dungeons lol seems like judge is exactly what he appears ya kno

[muted ember]

He didn't remove all their emotions either only the ones he deemed to cause weakness. They still exhibit humor (albeit dark) and anger for example

[sinful helm]

he removed love and empathy

[ripe geyser]

Well yeah but it’s very logical to say that having kindness makes you less efficient as a military soldier

So naturally those are the emotions he removes

But by getting heartless soldiers Judge most likely does much less savage work. Something in his past must’ve made him despise empathy and sadness, two emotions that hinder efficiency as a military unit. No normal person goes as far as removing emotions from their kids, even parents that use their kids as fighters/soldiers. I mean look at the BM crew, BM has all of her crew serve for her and they do so with undying loyalty. You don’t really need to go as far as eliminating empathy and sadness all together in order to have military competence. Something must’ve happened to Judge in the past that compelled him to go as far as eliminating these emotions from his own children. And based on all the mentions of Judge in Wano I think we’re not done learning about him yet.

[muted ember]

I agree we're not done with the Vinsmoke family

[bitter kraken]

Did judge make them 100% loyal? Because I’f not why don’t the siblings turn on him and take over

[muted ember]

They probably just don't care to

[ripe geyser]

At first when I saw Judge and the Sanji backstory I thought Judge was just a fully heartless savage who was as heartless as his kids without scientific augmentation. But then I saw him cry when the BM pirates betrayed him. If Judge was actually a 100% ruthless guy he would’ve just gotten really angry and shed zero tears. But no, he felt sad about being betrayed and cried.

[muted ember]

They were barely interested in their own death

[bitter kraken]

Actually think judge was crying because he is a bitch not cause he was sad about being betrayed lol he seemed like a coward in that moment more than anything else

[ripe geyser]

Ichiji was disappointed when he saw his father cry. Sadness is a sign of weakness and something in Judge’s past must’ve compelled him to go as far as eliminating it from his own kids to assure they’re 100% competent as superhuman weapons

If there were no more important things about the Vinsmoke family and Germa to learn about then Oda would have no reason to write so much dialogue about Judge and Germa in Wano

[muted valley]

No, he would take it after everyone is beat up and tired. Killing them easily.

Just like he did to White Beard.

[muted valley]

They laughed at it and said, "well there's no way out, oh well nothing to do but wait for death. Dont make a fool out of yourself this is our blunder"

[muted valley]

From what I remember he wanted to create the perfect soilders and heirs. Germa was a warning country. Judge wanted to take back the homeland they lost he mentioned with the ghosts without a homeland.

[ripe geyser]

Losing the homelands could be a big part of what compelled him to remove emotions yes

[muted valley]

Well, he talked about getting it back. It was his end goal

But yeah, that played into removing emotions. As he stated it's for a perfect soilder.

[ripe geyser]

Yeah and he must’ve figured he needed soldiers with absolute competence in order to successfully take back the lands

We don’t know exactly how Judge lost them

[ancient vault]

Yeah my theory suggests that Shiryu with his Invis Fruit and Devon with her shapeshifting abilities infiltrate wano/onigashima with the help of Moria. Also regarding Shiryu we know his fruit can hide an entire ship with the help of an invisibility cloak like Absa did

[quasi roost]

in sbs 101, oda just said Ushimaru is not Zoro's father

[ripe geyser]

Yep and it’s true cause Oda said it

What I’m surprised about is that people are using that to imply Zoro is not Shimotsuki. We know for sure that Shimotsuki has multiple family lines and it’s not like Shimotsuki can only be men. It still is very possible for Zoro to have Shimotsuki blood, could be from his mother. After all Roronoa is his surname, which people usually get from their father

[quasi roost]

yeah, he has shimotsuki blood for sure.

[ripe geyser]

Zoro could still technically be a direct descendant of Ryuma, how are we supposed to know whether or not Ushimaru had a sibling?

These are questions we need explanations to and we’re probably gonna get answers to them in Wano

I just hope new SBS volumes aren’t considered as spoilers for this chat otherwise we’re in trouble

[muted ember]

The thing about it is tho, fathers are more important than mothers in OP we all know this. And I'm not saying he isn't Shimotsuki, but there has to be something we're missing about his dad

[ripe geyser]

BM: allow me to introduce myself

But yeah ur right about that

[muted ember]

Like tbh I almost feel like who his dad is even more important now

[ripe geyser]

Oh same

Ushimaru was revealed to be a direct descendant of Ryuma and now we learn Zoro isn’t even part of that ancestry line

[amber oar]

people can have more than a child, did you know?

[pure raven]

I think Lysop will beat King after Zorro gets beaten.

[ripe geyser]

No shit Sherlock

[amber oar]

then what's the problem with Zoro not being Ushimaru's son

[elder lichen]

How would zoro lose

[muted ember]

U think he will?

[elder lichen]

No

[muted valley]

It wasn't Judge tho, it was stated that it happened long before Judge. Hence the ghosts part.

[elder lichen]

This guy does

[muted valley]

Man I completely forgot that is possible

[ripe geyser]

Ah

[muted ember]

Tbh once I seen "Lysop" I stopped reading that lmao

[ripe geyser]

Bad takes… they’re everywhere

[ancient vault]

hes german probably lol

[elder lichen]

Ussop?

[ancient vault]

youre not preserved from that either

[pure raven]

Lysop is stronger than Luffy he have only used 0,000000001% of his power❗❗❗❗❗❗❗

[ripe geyser]

I’m aware… do you think my take on Judge and the Vinsmoke family is bad?

[ancient vault]

aight stop trolling this channel is not for it

[ripe geyser]

This channel is for theorizing and speculating

[ancient vault]

Could you summarize it again?

[ripe geyser]

Scroll up I don’t feel like typing it out and trying to think it through again

[sand sail]

You're gonna have to leave this out of the channel

[ripe geyser]

A really basic summary of it is that I think there’s more about Judge to learn about and that something specific in his past must’ve compelled him to remove emotions from his kids

[sand sail]

Not the place for jokes

[ancient vault]

link me message

[muted valley]

I believe he is apart of the bloodline, just not a direct decendant.

It's kinda odd he's one of the OG strawhats and never got a family/lineage thing, even tho everyone else did, even though we know his childhood. He's prolly an orphan and there is something with his parents. Altho I don't think it's a big plot thing. Just ties him more to wano

[ancient vault]

ah you mean sth traumatizing?

[ripe geyser]

Probably yes

[pure raven]

I'm not joking.

I think Kid and Law will beat Big Mom.

[elder lichen]

Obv

[ripe geyser]

Parents don’t need to do any sort of genetic modification to make their kids human weapons but apparently Judge thought it was essential to assure his kids would be competent as military units

[sand sail]

The Usopp stuff? You can knock that off. This channel is more for structured ideas too, not just idle speculation for the end of a fight

[pure raven]

Nami is my favorite Character😏😏

[ripe geyser]

Shitposting is in #manga, go there and have a fun time

[lone hedge]

L x f f y 気#5899 has been muted!

[ripe geyser]

The deed has been done

[strange karma]

Y he got muted?

[muted ember]

Yo can i ask u one more question about the Reverie timeline?

[muted valley]

Being an idiot

[sand sail]

Don't worry about it

[sand sail]

Sure

[strange karma]

Just curious

[ripe geyser]

@ancient vault #manga-theories message this is the first message about my view on Judge and Germa

[muted valley]

Shim, idk if I said it but I thought he said why he did it.

[muted ember]

In 957 Issho and Sakazuki talk about the warlords being abolished, u think Issho was going to confront one of them? It looks like they're in a battle but maybe it's just a random sea king

[ripe geyser]

Isnt Fujitora fighting Sabo and the revs?

[ancient vault]

I agree with this here. Sanji existing and still being treated like shit up until the end kind of disproves ur idea in my eyes.
Also if it were so it wouldve been mentioned in WCI because I heavily doubt Judge will make any major reappearance again.

[ripe geyser]

I also doubt Judge will make a major appearance again in present day. But I know for sure we’re gonna learn some more about his history in Wano. His name and Vinsmoke have been mentioned way too many times already

[muted valley]

He just finished with it.

[hollow grotto]

Judge appears to me to be a very selfish and somewhat impulsive person who didn't think of the repercussions of his actions because he saw an opportunity to expand Germa again and went in thinking it was a done-deal

Big Mom taught him his street smarts - or in this case, sea smarts?

[muted ember]

Reverie Timeline
Day 4 - Revolutionaries vs Admirals
Day 5 - 7 - Warlords abolished
Day 14 - Heads of state head home

This is the confirmed information. The news went out sometime in between day 8 and 13

[ripe geyser]

What if the news covered up the incident with Mjosgard and Charlos by saying that Sabo attempted to murder a celestial dragon

[ancient vault]

Were gonna learn about his time with MADS. Not any childhood traumas

[ripe geyser]

Ivankov did say the news was full of shit basically

[ripe geyser]

I mean that’s still history related to him and we don’t know how many years ago that was

[muted valley]

I think we will see Judge again not soon tho His interactions, his story, Germa, the realization of having heartless sons, the whole talk with Luffy about Sanji where Luffy said ty, germa being outlaws now are alot of plot points

I think he may try and reverse the effects of their gene therapy due to him starting to see he made a mistake. Well prolly see them at some point with the strawhat grandfleet when they make an appearance in a big battle.

[ripe geyser]

I’m not directly implying he went through childhood trauma, it could be a traumatic experience or a huge failure and it doesn’t have to be during childhood

[muted ember]

He said he wasn't going to cover up what happened w the government and ripped up the check so he told the truth about whatever it was

[split glacier]

20-30s. They won't go back to him being a child. I don't think Sanji's grandpa needs stage time lol

[muted ember]

I think MADS been together recently

[muted valley]

Revs were that early? Damn

[muted ember]

Yea check 925

[ripe geyser]

Morgans isn’t directly honest with what he says though he says what he wants

[muted valley]

That makes sense, since it seems Queen has recent knowledge

[ripe geyser]

It was Morgans who called Luffy the 5th emperor and not the government right?

[muted ember]

I'm just saying he no longer has a reason to cover it up, especially if the truth is a way bigger story

[split glacier]

Define recently. Sanji is 20years or something so it's nothing during that time

[ripe geyser]

I mean that’s true he did take down a CP agent and flee

[muted valley]

Did he?

Also don't forget Wapol called Morgans and gave him info. I don't see Wapol as a good faith person but it isn't like he wouldn't tell the truth

[muted ember]

I think they were together intermittently within that time. Like not all 4 were all together at the same time but they were still a team as of 4 years ago

[muted valley]

Didn't they say they got disbanded or forced to break up at some point?

[muted ember]

Niji said Vegapunk was arrested but they really got absorbed into the government

[split glacier]

Really? I got the impression that it was before Judge even had Germa 66 army. They were all working together, something happened and they went their separate ways in their own specialities

[muted ember]

U want to read the theory I can link it but it's kind of long lol

I swear I have good evidence tho

[split glacier]

M.A.D.S. Mechanical, Augmented, Devil Fruit, something...lol

[muted ember]

Mythical azure dragon synthesis

[split glacier]

You think it was solely Kaido related?

[muted ember]

I think a lot of the discoveries they made were based on zoans and lineage factor

[ancient vault]

they werent bruh we know they departed more than 20 years ago

[muted ember]

Vegapunk so far can only feed zoans to inanimate objects

[ancient vault]

MADS could simply be a reference to mad scientists

[ancient vault]

thats also sth we already know

[muted ember]

Yea he said they were absorbed into the government

They disbanded for the very short amount of time Vegapunk was in custody

[ancient vault]

They werent. Only Vegapunk was.

[muted ember]

Why he say they?

The research team he just spoke on lol

[split glacier]

Could be but it's detailed in an acronym so the letters mean something

[ancient vault]

They were a team of scientists and the leading scientists are Vegapunk, Judge and Queen

Obviously they were working together with a team to build stuff etc.

[muted ember]

He even say "or rather" suggesting it's not as simple as they just disbanded

My theory rebuttals all this by the way

[ancient vault]

Vegapunk was caught at least 24 years ago.
Queen was with Kaido 23 years ago on panel. And probably also 25 years ago when Kaido entered wano

[muted valley]

If it was more recently, it would give credence to a theory I had where vegapunk is affiliated with the revolutionary army.

Bc of Kuma doing what he did(everything)

It also seems like there is an affiliation with each of the main powers with that group.

It seems that there is a MADS affiliation with each of the

[muted ember]

Did u see where I said their not always together?

[muted valley]

Same

[muted ember]

And Kaido not part of the team but we know he does leave Wano for long periods of time

[split glacier]

I find it hard to believe they just wanted to study Kaido if MADS means what you say it does.

[muted ember]

Wdym?

I'll just link the theory cause my phone bout to die I can't keep up this discussion

[split glacier]

You say MADS = Kaido right? Mythical blah blah blah?

[muted ember]

Yes

[split glacier]

Does that even time correctly? When did Vega make the pink dragon? When did Queen join Kaido? Why did Kaido let them test him?

[ancient vault]

that theory is bad

Kaido said himself the world has no place for two dragons. He would not want someone to create a second dragon fruit.

[split glacier]

Post your link cos I'm not seeing the connections

I still think it's Mechanical for Queen, Augmented for Judge, Devil Fruit for Caesar/Vega and S for...🤔

[ancient vault]

Mad Scientist

[muted ember]

I got a charger I'm back but the fruit could have been made anytime up until Momo ate it technically but probably about 4 years ago bc they abandoned PH. Kaido and his crew got to Wano around 25 years ago and Vegapunk was "arrested" 24.

[split glacier]

Nevermind 🤦

[muted valley]

Kaido could have been caught

[muted ember]

Kaido been caught 18 times

[muted valley]

Also I thought they said at some point that Big Mom was tried to be studied

[muted ember]

No could lol

[muted valley]

No, I mwnt for Mads research

Used his one capture for it

[ripe geyser]

Does anyone think Vegapunk is a perfectionist and only threw away the dragon DF because its color didn’t match

[muted ember]

No he could tell it wasn't real bc of how it looked

I think it had a 1/10 chance of working just like the smiles and Momo got lucky

[split glacier]

I don't think any of the captures have happened since he's controlled Wano and that's 20summing years. Hard to control land when you locked up

[split glacier]

I think Caesar let off a bomb too quick for them to collect it. You don't have much time when collect yo stuff when that gas baby coming for you lol

[ripe geyser]

Momo out here with Kinemon level luck

[split glacier]

Vegapunk not a noob like Caesar, it probably was 100% but didn't take it in the evacuation

[muted ember]

My theory about that is that he always knew he needed Wano so when he was last captured by the government he negotiated his freedom by bargaining his lineage factor

And that's probably also how he got the numbers

[split glacier]

I don't see Kaido as the negotiation guy. They didn't just captured him, they have attempted to execute him lol.c

[muted ember]

Well Big Mom said he bought the numbers from the government so there was negotiation, u just have to be willing to believe it was something other than money as exchange

[muted valley]

Or mom's fruit has another thing we don't know about

Maybe he thought the wg shouldn't have it so said it was a failure? (That's what I'm going with) I don't think he truly like the WG as we saw with Kuma.

[split glacier]

Seems like a reach to me.

[muted ember]

I mean u said he doesn't negotiate but he did at least once for a fact. That's all I'm saying

[split glacier]

Possibly so. Vega was captured so it's not like he's 100% happy about being there but he does get to do all his crazy experience.

[split glacier]

With who? When?

[muted ember]

With the government to get the numbers

[split glacier]

It says he bought them. To say he gave up his DNA so they make weapon against him instead of gold since its the WG seems pretty stupid on Kaido part. It just says the numbers were failures and he recruited/bought them. I can't find this chapter where it says this, it's only from the wikia.

[hoary lark]

i think zoro is a shimotsuki

[muted ember]

Toko not related to Yasu

[split glacier]

Did you make this?

[hoary lark]

yes

[hoary lark]

i know, i just put toko cause yasu adopted her

[muted ember]

U can't find the chapter where it says he bought them? I have the panel

[gilded geyser]

Sanji 1/4 lunarian IMO

[split glacier]

You are making it seem as if Kaido didn't have leverage and had to give up his DNA for the Numbers when it just says bought. That's what I mean by reaching. It just says he bought them from scientists at least 20 years ago, the numbers are over 100 years old and the WG was only there recently with Vegapunk + Caesar (4 years ago)

[split glacier]

Pretty sure most think the same moment we they brought up Lunarians and King did Diable Jambe lol. I don't see it being anything else and "passion" is dumb lol

[gilded geyser]

Exactly! It’s just too much coincidence

[wheat dune]

You guys won't believe what I just figured out. It sounds so right, it is basically foreshadowing.
You all know that Laughing has a major role in the series (for some reason) and a lot of characters have their own unique laughs. Aside from this, Roger laughed when he saw one piece and named the island with the word "Laugh" in it. Here out of nowhere comes Luffy's name. Why would Oda name a character "Luffy" and where this name comes from? What IF (because Oda really likes playing with words) Luffy's name is not actually how it is written and actually is: Laugh-y (Luff-y), the guy who Laughs. We don't know much about Dragon and why luffy has this specific name but why wouldn't Oda hide this, when fate matters this much in One Piece? It was in front of us all this time.

[muted ember]

No I didn't make it seem like that I said u can choose to believe it. U said Kaido doesn't look like he negotiates, so I'm just showing that he has in the past in fact negotiated w the government. And we also don't know how long PH was Vegapunks lab only that he left for years ago so there's no issue w the timeline

[split glacier]

Scientist doesn't equal WG tho so for you to say he did a deal with WG isn't 100%. Scientist unless specified are normally individual fractions of some sort. "Choose to believe it" isn't really evidence or strong correlation supporting your claim.
And you never posted this long theory or w/e with the actual detail so it's still seems patchy lol. But anyways

[muted ember]

Here's the full theory

[muted ember]

Technically I can't dispute that. But it states he bought them from PH which is a government controlled island and lab so I think it's a fair assumption on my part to think the scientists involved were working for the WG

[tired osprey]

tell me about your t4n theory champ

[muted ember]

Nami and Robin both wore the SH before they joined the crew. Tama wore it, she's from Straw Hat Village, and she met Ace and taught him how to weave one

Basically something will happen to Luffy's hat at some point, Tama will fix it perfectly, and he will ask her to join

[split glacier]

Hmm. The "they" is most likely referencing MADS group of scientists but as it wasn't known info until Queen it's just stated as such. I don't think that's necessarily the same as when a word is in bold with quotations specifying info not to be known now. The they is Caesar, Vegapunk and the subordinate scientists, Queen didn't get captured/absorbed by the looks of things.
The Kaido was a warlord is a bit iffy to me. Warlords were technically used to balance against the Yonko, and there seems to be no other dominant force other than the characters we know for them to "protect" against. I don't think it was a situation where Kaido got "promoted" so to speak, into a Yonko. I don't think there's a need for pirates to have been Warlords to then seen as Yonkos later.

[muted ember]

It's not that there's a need, it's just better for the theory if Queen is also connected to the government somehow, the easiest way I saw was to have him on a Shichibukai crew. Plus Kaido fought his way to the top of the world so he could have easily held the position at some point and simply quit. And the Shichibukai aren't just to counterbalance Yonko they're meant to deter lower level Pirates too

[sand sail]

Kaido probably couldn't have been a warlord at any point

Their prime function is to counterbalance against the pirate threat, and by the time the warlords would've even been conceived, he'd already have had a 1000 man crew ruling Wano and setting up his operations

A deal with the government is easy, he's been dealing with CP0 for ages now

[muted ember]

Do we have a timeline for when the warlords were created?

Mihawk joined almost 20 years ago right?

[split glacier]

There's no ETA. It just says sometime after Roger's death he joined.

[muted ember]

It doesn't matter I'll take the L on that it's more so speculation than evidence

[sand sail]

Earliest we get is Crocodile 16 years back, I believe?

[muted ember]

Is that 16 pre ts or current?

Maybe there was warlords but it wasn't always 7. Like Shanks became a Yonko 6 years ago so we know it predates the current Yonko system we have. Is it possible when Roger and WB were at the top there were only 3 or 4 warlords?

[sand sail]

Current, we get the 16 from Law's flashback iirc

That's possible tho, we don't really have a timeframe but that's just the earliest I believe

[gentle jewel]

What if the monkey guy on shanks crew is like chopper

[cyan berry]

He's not a doctor

He also cannot speak

He also just hangs on a guy's shoulder

[gentle jewel]

I meant like animal that are human human fruit

Not doctor or anything

[cyan berry]

no

[muted ember]

I know Morj made it a meme but I think Green bull is actually Zoro's dad

I think Roronoa is his real surname and the Shimotsuki in his family was his mother. They all have blue hair and Green Bull could be where he got his hair color from

[tired moss]

imagine if komurasaki is Devon in disguise and BB pirates are here to steal a DF

[brisk horizon]

Btw. I was reading wano from the start again and is the swordmaker luffx meets at the start the same race as king? Hes also got the wings, a mask and similar hair aswell (probably old news for everyone else lol)

[amber oar]

he doesn't have the wings when he's at the fire festival with Toko

[near osprey]

Green Bull being Zoro's Dad would be a massive twist but would explain why he hasn't been revealed yet

Kinda in the name not very many green haired characters in OP

[brisk horizon]

Aaah mb then

[muted valley]

Didn't think of Kaido as a previous shibukai, not to far fetched. He has an animal motif. Most shibukai used the position to have freedom and allocate power, till they can break away.

[stiff pagoda]

I wonder how old the shichibukai system is.

[muted valley]

Also I like your idea about the strawhat. It'd really tie many things together. Tama, tragedy(straw hat destroyed, luffy being a surrogate acr.

[muted valley]

Ace., I have thought about it. I always thought about oldest it was 20 years. Due to Roger and the great pirate Era requiring more force to keep the new pirates at bay

[stiff pagoda]

makes sense

[dense surge]

Was Zoro's father ever revealed?

[weak arrow]

No

[vestal orbit]

yea we saw fuga already

[gray creek]

Even if the samurai = numbers thing goes anywhere, the SBS confirmed Ushimaru isn't Zoro's father

[modest skiff]

Samurai = numbers?

[gray creek]

There's a crack theory that the 3 numbers holed up with Apoo in the basement were the 3 daimyo in the cave with Yamato as a child

[modest skiff]

<_<

[muted ember]

I hated it but now I don't care either way

[gray creek]

I'm assuming it's not going to happen, but not going to be deconfirmed either, so for the rest of the series we're going to be hearing about why Yamato was so friendly with Fuga

[split glacier]

Why is it cracked? Isn't that what the story is telling us? Kaido ain't one to kill strong people, he rather crush their spirit or in this case change them into Numbers. They look too similar for them not to be.

[calm dove]

And Aren’t Oni’s supposed to be like Kaido? Something’s off about the number oni’s, like they’ve been created. Anyway, i like this crack theory

[night karma]

They were created by Caesar in punk hazard iirc

[calm dove]

Or even closer, by queen

Their experiments and knowledge seems to overlap

[sinful helm]

queen probably he proved he has access too judge's tech so why not Caesars

which is much less developed tbh

[muted ember]

Ceasar said they were made over 100 years ago

And Ceasar never even made a successful ancient giant

[muted valley]

His ice oni poison was ceaser tech

At least it was related to him since it was gas based

[sinful helm]

i mean queen is a much greater scientist then C so not suprised he can replicate all of them except Vegapunk

[muted valley]

I mean, we really don't know the extent of his creations

Taking things from others and calling them yours I wouldn't call great.

Especially if in theory MADS they shared their work. So he had the blueprints and just implemented it. Besides his cyborg body and poison. We havnt seen anything too crazy that implies he's better.

[foggy gulch]

Queen was probably a child when he was in MADS he doesn't know everything. He was very curious about sanji so he was left out on a lot of stuff

[muted ember]

He was 30

[foggy gulch]

O never mind lol

[amber oar]

Queen is 56, the same age as Judge indeed

[fallow knot]

I think what queen said about lunarian also imlies how luffy survives everytime.

[foggy gulch]

Sanji says: it's my passion burning
Luffy says : it's guts

[hollow laurel]

i think sanji vs king fight will end in 1036-1037

[muted valley]

He was with Kaido when they beat Oden. I don't think Mads was 20 years prior.

@muted ember
Was he? If he's 56 now we can figure out a good bit then. That's roughly around the time Roger died then.(I'm tired so I know it's off some)

[muted ember]

Vegapunk was arrested at least 24 years ago before Judge's kids were born, Queen would have been 32

[simple bear]

they clearly couldnt thrive in eradication

[muted valley]

I ment didnt* not dont

My bad, I'm really tired but can't sleep

[gray creek]

We know at least some of the numbers were produced way back in the day, presumably not by any characters still living. It doesn’t fit the timeline that someone would have been able to do the gigantification in the past 20 years since we saw the daimyo. I’ll grant the visual similarity’s there, I had the thought my first time reading the chapter. And it even fits Kaido’s m.o. It just doesn’t stand up to the continuity as we know it

[frozen roost]

Pretty sure it was in the past 2 years after akainu vs aokiji cuz it was said that kaido bought them from caesar clown

Forgot if it was the anime that said it or the manga big mom said it

[muted ember]

Kaido bought them from PH, not Ceasar, over 20 years ago

[split glacier]

We don't know how long the process takes tho. Those kids were being experimented on and showed early signs of being tested on.

[muted ember]

Ceasar said the kids wouldn't last longer than 5 years

[gray creek]

We don’t know how long it takes, but it did happen before Caesar’s time. He was trying to do something similar, but failed

[frozen roost]

What ph stand for

[sullen sedge]

punk hazard i believe

[muted ember]

Punk Hazard, as in he bought them from the lab on the island, but not specifically Ceasar

[frozen roost]

why would a government lab sell to an emperor

[muted ember]

That has yet to be revealed but that's what BM stated she didn't say Ceasar

[frozen roost]

Oh I always remember wrong words I was close enough

[muted ember]

Ceasar didn't make the numbers, they're not his to sell

[split glacier]

I'm just using that as an example in terms of the process time. If it's 20+ years ago then it wasn't just Caesar, Vega was most likely there and it was successful to some degree. It's not gonna take 100 years for them to change.

[ancient vault]

I dont like that theory. This guy kind of debunks it and offers several good points against it
https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/qnbm31/why_the_numbers_arent/

[severe ice]

Is there any character faster than Kizaru? Not taking into account Ben Beckman.

[quartz python]

Old Rayleigh was able to keep up with him but kizaru was barely trying. Also Lucky Roo supposedly moves faster than a shadow.

[grizzled fog]

Roo moves faster than a shadow..? Where are you getting that from

[ripe marlin]

every crewmate has a dead friend or relative they would want to see again, OP lets them speak again??

[split glacier]

You think the One Piece is some sort of Afterlife connection point?

[tribal roost]

Had to share this but wrong place where everyone active on

[amber oar]

Ah yeah the cooks forgot the guy was in a mask and bdsm suit and stands at six meters tall

[sand sail]

The whole "Oda doesn't throw in random stuff for no reason!" is the worst justification for a strange argument. Oda throws in random things constantly just to see if people notice that he does random things

[muted ember]

It kind of does seem like they're talking about King tho

[ancient vault]

"Its oda"

[split glacier]

Remember when One Piece was only meant to last 5 years...

[ancient vault]

Feel like this theory would have more substance if king was confronting sanji

[mystic crown]

Im sure Oda just had a cool design for a character and was waiting to use it

[grizzled fog]

Also when have we seen king with red eyes?

[modest skiff]

I absolutely hate how this guy communicates, but this is pretty specific. Directly saying red eyes, lights themself on fire and blows up? I think its entirely conceivable the character of King was planned a long time ago. We know Oda has made changes to his plan before. Totally conceivable this was a direct reference to at the very least the character design of king.

[muted ember]

In the anime when he kicked Big Mom ship

[modest skiff]

I'm on board with this being a reference to King's character design. What exactly that means or implies is a big question mark though

[ancient vault]

not red looking for close up

[muted ember]

It's in the anime

[modest skiff]

I mean its clear as day in the anime. The video shows it. I don't think the anime would change eye colors like that

[muted ember]

Plus they said his eyes turn red so they may not always be that way

[grizzled fog]

People get red eyes literally all the time though in the anime

And you think the anime wouldn’t change that, but the official colored manga would?

[muted ember]

Wdym?

[modest skiff]

Everything we have seen indicates King's physiology changes based on emotion. I think @muted ember is right to think they may change depending on the situation. If he emits flames uncontrollably from being mad, his eyes may also change color.

Sure, people have red eyes, but also light themselves on fire and blow up? That is so specific and out of nowhere. It feels wild for it to not be a reference. That being said, it being a foreshadowing doesn't really mean anything because it was so early in the series its hard to say. But given the location of Baterie in the world, it may indicate King was hopping down from the Red Line at the time and that's all we can say

[muted ember]

Well I was typing basically this lol

[modest skiff]

That's why I bought a laptop, faster Discord typing XD

[ancient vault]

@modest skiff@muted ember well he doesnt

[muted ember]

We both just said it's in the anime

[ancient vault]

he managed to do big mom eyes red so I dont think kings are

[ancient vault]

Yeah and? lol Manga > anime pretty sure

[modest skiff]

If BM eyes went red, we may be meant to assume people's eyes can just go red from being pissed off. But lighting themselves on fire and blowing up?

[ancient vault]

im looking for closer panels gimme a sec

[ancient vault]

her eyes are always red/pink

Aight so they are red

[muted ember]

LMAO

[ancient vault]

? I told you the anime is useless if the manga contradicts it

[muted ember]

Like I said 5 minutes ago they probably change color

[modest skiff]

Hey now cmon tray, he was gracious, no need to rub it in lol

[ancient vault]

depending on what?

[modest skiff]

Swrml was being diligent and careful. Nothing wrong with verifying