#manga-theories

1 messages · Page 174 of 1

halcyon tusk
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should be a lot more all things considered

left field
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That is low for a top tier revolutionary

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Revolutionaries should have generally high bounties since they’re objectively going against the WG

halcyon tusk
rustic granite
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Yes but they are more covert sooo

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Tbh Oda always delivers lower than our expectations when it comes to character bounties

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Except when it comes to the Strawhats

warm saffron
left field
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Captains and leaders always have much higher bounties than their crew

rustic granite
left field
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I bet the rocks pirates members didn’t even have their insane bounties until Rocks was defeated

halcyon tusk
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Benn Beckmann shouldn’t be classified as a mere First Commander. he isn’t a First Commander, he is the Vice-Captain and rumored to be comparable to Shanks himself.

left field
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Well ofc he’s comparable to Shanks but that doesn’t mean his bounty is gonna be close

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Zoro isn’t that much weaker than Luffy and his bounty is a little more than 1/5 Luffy’s bounty, same deal with Sanji

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Things like this are why I find it really stupid when ppl look at bounties as power levels cause thats not what they’re mainly meant for. Bounties are mainly meant for showing how much of a threat a specific individual is to the WG

halcyon tusk
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or incentive to inspire action against threats they simply don’t have the time and manpower to spare for.

left field
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Yeah that too

tawdry bramble
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Oda has plenty of times directly correlated bounty with power

halcyon tusk
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Marco’s should be much higher too

left field
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I’m not saying bounty isn’t correlated I’m saying it’s mainly meant for showing individual threat to WG

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ofc bounties scale with power to some extent

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If bounties were mainly based on power level then Zoro and Sanji would easily have higher bounties rn

halcyon tusk
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Haki feats give u a much more accurate estimation. in the end it’s all about results.

warm saffron
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I bet you oda will keep choppers bounty low for the next 4 years as an ongoing joke he’ll never give up joking about

left field
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He’ll prolly keep trolling Sanji’s bounty too

warm saffron
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Maybe by the end of the 4 years, choppers bounty would be almost 1000 berries, whilst his fellow crew members would have bounties over a billion each

left field
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I love the Sanji and Chopper bounty trolls330 FranKEKer

zinc iris
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For example I think sabo's bounty is surprisingly low not because of his power but because of his position, he's the number two of the revolutionary army

left field
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I think Dragon’s bounty is gonna be at least 5x Sabo’s bounty

zinc iris
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Dragon might even have the highest bounty ever, his explicit goal is toppling the celestial dragons and is actually succeeding in turning the people

tawdry bramble
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They’ve said he has the highest bounty of everyone’s

zinc iris
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I don't recall an explicit mention, just that he's the "worst criminal"

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And that they specify Roger's bounty was the highest ever for a pirate, which almost implies some non-pirate got a higher one

warm saffron
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I wonder if by the end of wano, the WG will add big moms and kaido’s bounties to luffy’s, which would ultimately make him have the highest overall bounty for a pirate, maybe it would be almost equal to that of dragons

zinc iris
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Law and Kid at the very least will get part of the credit

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And I really expect Luffy's very final bounty to be 5.6B

patent summit
warm saffron
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Luckily he has enma, which, though he still hasn’t perfected, it should make him be on par with sanji once he perfects it, which maybe he’ll be able to figure out during his fight with king

topaz marten
patent summit
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I mean zoro and sanji are basically equal

warm saffron
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They were equal, until sanji’s hidden germa powers started to work

zinc iris
# topaz marten Idk i think itll be at least 6b

5.6B works on many levels
It's slightly more than Roger's 5.5B, signaling he finally surpassed the previous PK but not exaggeratedly
Also in Japanese it will be written as 56億 and 56 is a number often associated to Luffy because of go-mu

topaz marten
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Welp, you changed my mind

pure raven
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and luffy's bounty after wano will be 5 billion because his increases have been x3.33 <- x3 <- +100KK <- time skip -> +100KK -> x3 -> x3.33 (5B/1.500K)

tawdry bramble
pure raven
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I haven't seen this anywhere

sinful helm
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Doubtful it will be that much after wano

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5.6b is too much for now

pure raven
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I said 5B not 5.6B

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5.6B is after BB/raftel

sinful helm
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Same thing it should be around the same bounty as BB now

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Even if he beats Kaido they know he didn't do it alone

pure raven
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I also think BB is getting a big jump right after wano

sinful helm
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If would make sense that BB always be a little in front of Luffy

warm saffron
pure raven
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BB is probably going to 5.4 or something

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somewhere between 5B and 5.5B, less then roger of course

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he should've probably surpassed whitebeard in fame before raftel

sinful helm
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Infamy more likely

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Where wb protected people this dude is here just too see it burn

pure raven
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I don't get why people have such low expectations for luffy's bounty after wano, the whole point of his bounty is to go beyond our expectations

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and the only time he beat someone and didn't get a higher bounty than them was against moria, which was probably because the WG didn't want people to know he beat him

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and it was an old bounty anyway

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he had law's help against doflamingo but he still got a higher bounty than him

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by a big margin

solid badger
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What was law’s frozen bounty again?

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440 mil

rustic granite
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yes

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After Dressrosa,it became 500 million

near osprey
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I think God Valley is the next arc, and we're going to see the reformation of the Rocks Pirates with Blackbeard at the helm.

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Just watched 957/958 again and it had me thinking

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I imagine Blackbeard recruiting the Big Mom/Beast Pirates and Shiki and the other ex Rocks members joining in

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God Valley disappeared it wasn't destroyed so its probably a hidden Island that'll return because of a certain event

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Because Blackbeards ship name is the Saber of Xebec and he runs the old Island the Rocks Pirates called home I don't think it's too far fetched

flat nimbus
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what about kid's bounty tho

haughty plinth
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He will try to end the BM pirates

near osprey
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Yeah but he could still form an Alliance with them

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I picture Shanks forming an Alliance with Luffy/Kidd/Law/Marco to combat BB

haughty plinth
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BB wants to reach Laugh Tale, so he will probably kill Katakuri

near osprey
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Well think of what Sengoku said when Akainu broke into the meeting "An old soldier giving new soldiers a history lesson as they need to know what can happen"

haughty plinth
near osprey
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I think that's Oda talking directly to us about the Rocks getting back together again

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People just let it fall under the radar

haughty plinth
near osprey
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Exactly so if their goal is to dominate the world and if Blackbeard inherited Xebecs will of becoming King of the World I don't think it's too far out there to see him form an Alliance with BM and Kaido

haughty plinth
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He would only use them to attain his goal, just like he did with the WB pirates. He would definitely betray them after knowing where Laugh Tale is

near osprey
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Oda did say he's writing the largest war arc in OP so with that in mind that could be the two sides Blackbeards Alliance vs Shanks Alliance at God Valley

haughty plinth
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  • I strongly believe Kaido will die in Wano
near osprey
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Nahh Kaido still has use as a character

haughty plinth
# near osprey Nahh Kaido still has use as a character

Think about it: The Akazaya 9 really insist on "Taking Kaido's head". Just defeating Kaido doesn't mean he won't come back after his defeat on Wano. Kaido insists on Wano being a very important place (we don't know why yet) so he definitely won't stop coming back until he gains total control without anyone standing in the way. If they don't kill him somehow, he will come back for more.

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I do think Kaido is more like a step for Luffy, forcing him to become stronger just like Rob Lucci did.

near osprey
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They were also insistent in taking Doflamingos head too

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Not the Akazaya but Kyros and them

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But I'll get more indepth later I'm at work currently

tawdry flax
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Perospero dies in wano

rustic granite
flat nimbus
rustic granite
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Yes

junior cape
pure raven
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What are the odds of Fujitora coming into the play in Wano and destroying the beast pirates with a meteorite, it would be cool since it parallels the KT extinction

pine delta
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i feel like if fujitora was coming to wano we would've gotten at least a hint of it. i could see it happening tho. it all depends on who owns those ships

tawdry flax
jovial patrol
junior cape
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1026, final page. Perospero is a dead man.

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Jack is too.

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@tawdry flax you're welcome

deft sierra
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This theory’s really interesting ☝️

left field
bitter kraken
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Pero is prolly RiP but jack im not too sure, he’s an awakened zoan and them are hard to kill

left field
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Pero isn't dead OP antagonists can't get killed by SHs and their allies

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I actually can't think of an exception to this rule, if there is one someone please tell me

patent summit
left field
bitter kraken
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Pero isn’t really the antagonist that kaido and Bm are so I think dude can die

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He also killed Pedro so an eye for an eye

left field
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I mean ok but is there an exception to the rule I stated above that has happened

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Rule: A SH or SH ally cannot kill an enemy

junior cape
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Dude doesnt have a lower spine anymore. Hes done.

crude abyss
bitter kraken
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Yeah I know what you’re saying, just kinda don’t want him to die I guess lol but he’s half fish watch oda make something up like it wasn’t fatal or some where he got hit

left field
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I'm looking at deceased OP characters and no joke I don't think my rule has any exceptions

junior cape
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The point is, NONE of these people are rejoining the fight. Ever.

left field
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Vergo in Punk Hazard was the closest to defying the rule (Vergo vs Law) but the SAD explosion is what killed him not Law

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The point I'm trying to get at isn't that characters not dying in OP is stupid (even though it kind of is), but that Neko's finisher on Perospero won't kill. If that attack really killed him then that would be the first time the series defies the rule

junior cape
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What, where someone killed another on screen?

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It's happened a bunch in OP

left field
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Dude can u read

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of course on-screen kills have happened

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but I'm saying not once has it been an enemy killed by a SH or SH ally

patent summit
left field
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If u look at what I said above there seems to be a "rule" that no SH or SH ally can kill an enemy

patent summit
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Do you wanna come back to it later? I find it quite interesting

left field
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doesn't matter much really, bounties in OP are always weird, sometimes they align with power well other times they don't

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The fact that post-MF Luffy (400k bounty) is less powerful than post-dressrosa Zoro (320k bounty) makes it clear that bounties are more based on how much of a threat someone is to the WG tho

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Personally I find the killing rule more interesting than power levels and bounties and shit

patent summit
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Thats true but that doesnt mean Post dressrosa zoro is close to Post dressrosa luffy in terms of power. Since post timeskip their gap has only gotten bigger

left field
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Doesn't matter that much, they're both cool and strong

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but is there an exception to the "rule" that no SH or SH ally can kill an enemy?

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I'm looking through deceased characters and I simply cannot find any deaths that break this rule

patent summit
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Well they can

left field
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has the rule been broken at any point in the series?

patent summit
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But it doesnt happen in the story

left field
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so the rule hasn't been broken is what ur saying

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I'll state it one more time: A SH or SH ally cannot kill an enemy in the present-day story

bitter kraken
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I don’t think it has either, but we are in the end of days sorta with the series there’s a good chance oda is making it more serious. I know oda is the one who decides the fates of those in the OP world buy he writes characters in a way they act how we think they are if that makes sense, so Pero killed Pedro and the minks are out for blood. Cat viper took the fight to Pero after the others failed with full intent to kill I would be surprised if Pero isn’t dead tbh

left field
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I feel like he wouldn't do it for the very first time with an ally character getting a kill tho

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It's gonna be something more big somewhere in the final war saga

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Btw will Zoro kill Mihawk?

patent summit
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Idk

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Probably not i feel like

left field
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It would feel weird wouldnt it

patent summit
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Killing any major character feels weird imo

left field
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It doesn't really make sense how none of the allies kill a single enemy but since that's what the series has been doing for such a long time it would feel a little too weird for the rule to be broken

patent summit
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Well we probably gonna see orochi and kaido dead

left field
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Kaido will definitely be out of the picture after Wano

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And because he's a yonko there's no way in hell Oda can leave him alive but no longer active in the story

patent summit
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Yeah also the fact that kaido has been hyping himself up to die since the moment he has been revealed

left field
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So maybe this will be the first time we get to see what Luffy truly thinks about killing the opponent in a fight

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Cause what if Kaido is the type of foe that's so tough he doesn't go down until he dies

patent summit
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Well oda doesnt kill villains because letting them live is much more suffering than killing them

left field
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Doffy seems like he's having fun reading the news in Impel Down lol

patent summit
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For example kaido, his dream is to have a glorious death in battle. Oda can just make him go unconsious or him needing to retreat with his tail between his legs

bitter kraken
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We need doffy back lol, assuming Sabo is captured in impel down and the Revos attack it to get him back it opens up a path for doffy to escape in the chaos with his ability he just needs fo see the sky and get out of there. If not that, the Revos themselves could see an opportunity to get a prisoner with intel on their enemy

pine delta
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imagine living knowing you failed. kaiddo dying literally grants him his dream smh

left field
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I don't think Doffy really has any place in the story now. He's by far one of my favorite characters in the series but there isn't really a role he can play. Post-Wano is gonna be the official end of the underground weapons-SMILE trade, and with not only his crew's L in dressrosa but Kaido's eventual L Doffy won't really have a side to be on, and he can't be on his own side since that's repeating Dressrosa to an extent

pine delta
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he can just try to kill the CDs

hollow prairie
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Does anyone else find it strange how little anyone actually references how laws fruit can grant immortality and how large of a role that could end up playing in the story

supple epoch
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at this point it feels like it’s impossible to force law to use it for that so i think it’s just out of the picture

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i doubt oda will kill law by making him use it unless he’s already about to die or something

lean spade
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Sure it’s being saved for a huge story line against the Gorosei & CP0 towards the end

supple epoch
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there’s so much funny business surrounding the fruit like the personality swapping that will more than likely never be used again and oda seems more interested in making the ope ope no mi into buggy’s fruit but stronger

grizzled fog
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It’s not like buggy’s fruit in the slightest, and it still has a super wide range of abilities

zinc iris
zinc iris
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that is even the hardest punch luffy can ever deliver won't kill a person by impact, even though the blow itself would break a mountain

might still do it indirectly like launching a df user in the water, but Oda won't make luffy a killer i feel

mint prairie
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Dropping some puns from the latest Yuderon video on 1029:

1)１０（じゅう）３（み）０（ん） ー じゅうみん ー 住民 ー Juumin ー Residents
2)１０（てん）３（み）０（れ） ー てん（を）みれ（ば） ー 天を見れば ー Ten wo mireba ー Looking to the Heavens
3)１（あん）０（り）３（み）０（テッド） ー アンリミテッド ー Anrimiteddo ー Unlimited
4)０（お）１０（とう）３（さ）０（ま） ー おとうさま ー お父様 ー Otousama ー Father
5)０（お）１０（でん）３（さ）０（ま） ー おでんさま ー おでん様 ー Odensama ー Lord Oden
6)１０（じゅう）３（さん）０（わ） ー じゅうさんわ ー 13話 ー Juusan-wa ー 13 Chapters/Chapter 13

Just in case some wanted to look at it but don't want to watch the full video.

acoustic helm
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So it could momo remember his father

mint prairie
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If you want to see his takes on each and every pun he made, watch the video, I omitted them because I'd rather have you write your own interpretations.
For me, 1 and 2 might go about the people down the Flower Capital noticing Onigashima in the sky, which was shown amid the clouds in 1026, but we haven't had any follow up to the fact Luffy and Kaidou's clash split the sky. I think it's a perfect scenario for a capital evacuation.
For points 4 and 5, it might be a Momo centered chapter, but I don't think the "Lord Oden" pun will have any relevance since Momo is still dealing with stopping Onigashima through his Homuragumo, so it feels weird to have Oden having any presence aside from Momo remembering him (as "Father").

mint prairie
tardy pumice
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The most recent yuderon video was interesting since it might answer a question I always had about Luffy's devil fruit. I've always wondered if the only reason Oda choose it, in the one shots and the main series, was only for stylistic reasons, such as, giving the main character an funny, goofy and deceptively unserious seeming power, or if there was also a thematic reason for his insistence luffy have the rubber rubber fruit. Seems it might also be the latter, after discussing the ancient mezo american civilizations and noting many of them were known for being skilled makers of natural rubber.

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Notably the Olmec, Aztec and the Mayans.

halcyon tusk
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reading too much into it i think. luffy is rubber so as to make it where he can literally always bounce back no matter what.

tardy pumice
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There has to be more to it than just that, at least I hope there is. It would be infinitely more interesting to me, at least.

halcyon tusk
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all i was saying is that is doesn’t NEED to be any more to it than that. you just want it to be more than a simple playful notion of a a silly boy with a silly body, on a grand adventure encountering silly things, and finding silly friends along the way.

tardy pumice
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Well, yes. That's exactly it.

halcyon tusk
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there could be something more to it seeing as the WG wanted it for some reason and Shanks took it

tardy pumice
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It can be both. But it's fine if it's not I suppose.

halcyon tusk
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but that’s as far into it as i feel is necessary. just the fact that WG was prevented from having it by shanks of all people

tardy pumice
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The only reason i suspect a deeper connection is the fact that Jaya borrows heavily from Mezo american culture and the enel space operations cover series mural show a codex done in the same style as a well known Aztec codex. Plus a lot more stuff, I don't really have time to get into right now. But, we'll see I guess.

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For now I just wanna see if this name pun thing pans out or if it's just BS. If onigashima falls in 1031, I'll believe it.

halcyon tusk
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personally i don’t mind it when i see these sorts of opinions from time to time. as long as you aren’t calling the actual TREASURE treasure(meaning gold, silver, gems, rubies, etc.)that is on Laugh Tale the “one piece” then i’m good bro. cause that isn’t what it is. that part is just Joyboy’s Treasure imo and the fruition of Joyboy’s Will inherited by Luffy is the One Piece,

zinc iris
halcyon tusk
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pure inexplicability

tardy pumice
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That would make Oda a master bullshiter able to make it seem like he plans things he didn't, and the funny thing is that might actually be the case ViviChuckle

pure raven
near osprey
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Alright so earlier I shared my theory on a revival of the Rocks Pirates but in the form of a massive Pirate Alliance Organized by Marshal D. Teach, Blackbeard clearly already has some relationship with Xebec even if it is simply him inheriting his Will. His ship name is the Saber of Xebec and he is the current Pirate who reigns over Fullalead. Which is where the Rocks Pirates called home during their time 38 years ago.

During episode 958 the WG is holding their standard information meeting which is intended to really give us the audience and reader information. Now as Sengoku was going to switch gears and talk about Luffy, Kidd, Shanks and Wano Akainu barged in the room telling Sengoku to forget about Wano they don't have the resources to send a force there. After this Sengoku responds with "Of course I wasn't intending to get involved....I was just conveying my knowledge as an old soldier to young soldiers even pirates have relationships...they have purpose for their actions....you can't see what'll come next if you don't know history"

Then he goes on to talk about Kozuki Oden and how every single Pirate who has changed the world has had some run in with Wano.

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Reformation of the Rocks Pirates has already been glimpsed at with the Alliance with Kaido and Big Mom so it's not too far fetched they may ally themselves with Teach after their defeat at the hands of Kidd, Law and Luffy in Wano. Blackbeard is already on his way to Whole Cake Island for what we have no clue....but he did decide to set sail to move a plan in motion shortly after the Shicibukai were abolished. Saying the World Government is making a move for something I'm going to assume the whole world so he needs to get it before they do.

halcyon tusk
near osprey
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Hold on I'm not done yet

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We were also informed that Shiki, John, Silver Axe and Ochoku were ex members now John is clearly dead as he was part of Moria's Crew on Thriller Bark but we do know Shiki was waiting 20 years much like the Samurai of Wano to make a move so we can assume the year he was waiting for is this one.

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Now we have no idea who Silver Axe or Ochoku are but Oda wouldn't have them mentioned unless he intended on them playing a role later on.

near osprey
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Which brings me to my final point, at least in the anime God Valley was said to have disappeared not destroyed after the God Valley Incident you couldn't find it anymore physically or on a map which makes me believe the massive War Oda has told us about isn't going to be a war against the WG

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But between Blackbeards Rocks Alliance and possibly an Alliance organized by Shanks to combat the rising threat that is Blackbeard

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Because if Shanks and Blackbeard are destined to fight one another what better way for that fight to happen than at God Valley

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So reformation of Rocks Pirates through a Pirate Alliance organized by Blackbeard vs an Alliance organized by Shanks most likely involving, Kidd Pirates, Straw Hat Pirates, Whitebeard Pirates lead by Marco and Hawkins, Apoo and Drake would join along because if this alliance is formed it'd be in Part 5 of Wano

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Oda has been moving the Plot along outside of Wano giving us more information after every single Act finished up so we still have the information drop after Onigashima the information drop after Act 4 then the one we'll get after Act 5 or even during.

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and what would be a bigger information drop than finding out about an Alliance between those three Yonko who I don't see redeeming themselves.

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I've been trying to figure out what this war will be about and who the participants are and I think a battle between two separate Pirate Factions makes the most sense as they're all vying for supremacy so they can achieve their ultimate goal of finding the One Piece and being crowned King. Now Luffy just wants to find it to be PK because he sees the PK as the most free person on the sea. While Teach most likely sees it as an ultimate power grab that could help him achieve his goal of total supremacy over the globe.

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We can talk about Kaido and Big Mom all day but they are not Blackbeard who ultimately is the most important antagonist in the series next to Imu.

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If Luffy represents the Dawn then Teach is the Moon

bitter kraken
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Hawkings is dead

near osprey
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Doubt it, it is One Piece we're talking about characters don't die that easily

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If Orochi can survive the death blow Kaido hit him with then Hawkins can survive his fight with Killer

bitter kraken
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Orochi is prolly do to his fruit, hawkings is KiA same a Pero hmm apoo prolly gonna get killed too or I don’t remember what’s going on with him but I imagine once the war is over if apoo is alive his punishment will the the cutting off of his arms so that he can’t use his abilities anymore against wano and will cement momo as a ruler to be respected

near osprey
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I imagine the only solid antagonistic character who will die post Wano is Orochi

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I don't see anyone else being killed off.

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As Hawkins and Apoo most likely still have a role to play later on.

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Oda could surprise me but if we stick with general OP tropes a kill blow isn't really a kill blow

bitter kraken
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Orochi is super hard to kill lol that guy is like a cockroach surving nukes. And I don’t think hawkings or apoo have any role except the ones they’ve played as enemy combatants hawkings in believe is dead af and appoo even if he dosnt die in the war will prolly get killed by Kidd right after sorta coldy

near osprey
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Gonna be real here chief not going to get off topic and debate a minor part of my theory

pure raven
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orochi has an extra life for each head or what

bitter kraken
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It could be like that, or it could be that just one of his heads is the real one somehow ya kno? And the others are sorta decoys and he’s been using decoys cause he’s paranoid af but he’s fruit is deff a bit interesting and since he’s not dead yet we prolly will get to learn more about it

pure raven
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didn’t like a bunch of heads get cut off at once

hollow grotto
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we haven't been given an explicit reason but the assumption is, because Orochi's fruit gave him 8 heads, he can be decapitated 8 times before death, and iirc, he's been decapitated 7 times - 6 when the scabbards attacked him and once when Kaido decapitated him, so this is his last 'chance'

zinc iris
hollow grotto
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Making a very simple concept and then the fandom vaguely connecting pieces together makes it easy to circle-jerk Oda

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even if those pieces don't necessarily fit very well, it happens Goda

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but I like to believe that Oda is some genius just because the idea is more fun to think about, even if I know deep down that isn't true

real swan
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I think people need to realize that Oda isn't a great writer cause he somehow plans things 20 years ahead, but that he does a great job linking things he has written before with current events which also creates believable foreshadowing. But for some reason this turns into a constant argument about whether he's actually a god or a hack for no reason lol.

hollow grotto
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He's really good at adapting when he needs to link new ideas together and leaves things open enough to interpretation or keeps it loose so most of the time, there are no holes and sometimes, feel planned from the beginning when they're simply not

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that's the illusion he creates, which is why he's praised for it - sometimes it's intentional, for sure, it's just when people take that over the top and dub him the jesus christ 2 movie release

left field
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To me the perfect writer isn't someone who successfully plans everything really far in advance. Writing a story is an adventure even for the author themselves and by making some changes along the way based on what course the story is on, a much better story can be made. The 7 warlords, CP9 and Supernovas were all not initially planned.

pure raven
proud crystal
#

i hope youre wrong, i love the supernovas

small lantern
patent summit
#

Well he hates like all of em lmao

fair scroll
grizzled fog
#

What part of that nonsensical powerscaling is a theory?

pure raven
#

Deku or all might both solo Kaido change my mind

rough ferry
pure raven
teal nymph
#

spoilers when ?

rough ferry
pure raven
rough ferry
#

What? Why dont u go to general this is about theories. Dont bait.

rough ferry
teal nymph
#

usually they come out on tuesday so asked

rough ferry
#

🤷‍♂️

gloomy canyon
acoustic helm
sinful helm
#

Warlors came up really early

warm saffron
vestal orbit
#

personally think supernovas and warlords always existed but weren't under the banner of supernova/warlord at the time of their conception

the warlords, particularly mihawk and even crocodile/moria could have easily been reworked from bounty hunters, which would explain the dearth of prominent bounty hunters in the series

the supernovas could have just been... pirates that aren't the supernovas? i guess?

no idea, just spitballing here

rose zephyr
#

Warlords system was a new thing after the golden age of pirates, i think.

#

There are yonkou like individuals, pirates ruling the new world before Roger, but the Warlords system was implemented post-execution for the navy to have an edge against pirates.

acoustic helm
#

Warlord system came to counter yonkos

lone dew
#

My theory is that JoyBoy is not a person and is a Title, when the Poneglyph says Joy Boy or when Oden predicts Joy Boy will appear, it simply is a person who will have total and complete control over Haki, maybe even able to hear the voice of everything (like how Roger and Luffy were able to) so he then is a JoyBoy and can manifest the Will of D (which could be the Will of Destiny) somehow changing the course of the whole world through sheer will.

dusk owl
#

This is my Blackbeard theory. I think Blackbeard has a syndrome called "Dissociative Identity Disorder" which is a disorder when you experience more then 1 personality (like different people in the same body) I believe Blackbeard has 3 separate personalities. One devil fruit for each personality. I believe right now he is looking for the strongest Zoan devil fruit (which in my opinion is Sengokus Buddha df). Once he has attained all three he will have the strongest df from each class. To support my theory in chapter 226 in the manga Luffy calls Blackbeard a "them" unknown to Luffy he may have been using observation haki to see through Blackbeard and sense his personalities.

cyan berry
#

Even if this did make sense, how do you explain him using both fruits at the same time?

#

As far as we know, it's 1 devil fruit per body

zinc iris
pure raven
loud obsidian
#

This is a first time ive heard that having a handicap can become a major buff

patent sail
#

Haki blooms under extreme conditions but I can’t see Kid pulling out any advanced haki techniques. You have to be in a calm and peaceful state of mind to use it efficiently and that’s not Kid’s personality. I’d rather Oda get creative with Kid’s powers.

random ember
#

My theory is based on ODA's story writing. He is using the almost same Patern for after timeskip arcs with before timeskip arcs. He is making a reference now in Wano with Kid&Law VS Big Mom. Before timesekip Law&Kid were fighting together with their crews against a Pacifista. After the fight KiD managed to land a fatal blow on the Pacifista but Law finished it. I think the same will happen again, just instead of the Pacifista Big Mom will fall. We will maybe see Sulong form bepo with Killer landing some hits on Big Mom and then KiD landing the final blow on her, right after that Law finishes her with his Room + some ability. (Some story says that Napleion fell in the battle of Trafalgar maybe it's an connecetion).

supple nimbus
zinc iris
jade tendon
#

it would be interesting if vegapunk was someone we have already met, i like that

jovial patrol
#

1 yonko at least 2 first commander power combine.

violet grove
sand sail
#

Please read the channel description, this isn't the channel for memes.

sand sail
jade tendon
patent sail
left field
#

Luffy wasn’t in a very peaceful state when he successfully used ryou for the first time

#

He and Hyogoro were seconds away from being blasted into oblivion

pure raven
#

Yo guys hit me with your best theory , that's you think will happen at some point in the series

desert mango
#

I think that black beard might appear towards the end of wano and capture robin and reach the one piece before luffy resulting in a battle between the two creating the next pirate king

pure raven
left field
desert mango
#

Didn’t franky burn the blue prints for pluton though?

left field
#

Well yes but pluton was said to be in Alabasta I believe, or at least Alabasta held clues about it

halcyon tusk
#

he burned some blueprints on paper but he still has them in his mind’s eye

amber oar
#

those prints were preserved for a purpose, sure Franky had a backup plan. The prints may as well even be in digital format inside his body

left field
#

What if the WG tries to capture Franky and have Vegapunk read his data in order to get pluton

halcyon tusk
#

if it isn’t like that then he can’t. like if it’s still information in his brain and not his cpu

amber oar
#

The WG saw Franky burn the blueprints, they may just not expect him to have a backup

desert mango
#

But one thing I’m curious about is the next arc since sabo has been captured do they even have time for elbaf because I feel like at this point oda might not have an arc for elbaf but if he does it’s probably gona be as short as Zoe

left field
#

Elbaph would be really important for Usopp’s character but I don’t see it as an objective in the “4 emperors saga”

pure raven
desert mango
#

I don’t think cp0 plays a big roll here though I doubt they are much stronger then they used to be

halcyon tusk
pure raven
left field
#

Does anyone think lunarian genes were used on Sanji

pure raven
#

I feel like there will be a big reveal at the end of this arc. Similar to Zoe which Sanji Leave the crew and the squad go after them.

left field
#

I mean same but what would that reveal be I wonder…

pure raven
#

I mean it has something big that connect to the next arc for sure

halcyon tusk
#

only thing sanji has in his life apart from his origin, and the Straw Hats is the beratie

#

or however it was spelt

pure raven
#

But For wano there been a build up like 3-4 arcs before we got to wano. So for the next arc we didn't see any build up yet beside shocking news after reverie.

left field
#

If the BM pirates are trying to sail towards Onigashima (I’m assuming they would since they probably saw it moving) will they come across the marines?

pure raven
#

Jeez there so many possibility what can the story go from here

#

The existing warlord probably have to join other crew at some point

left field
#

And Mihawk isn’t getting a crew he’s too nice with it

crystal otter
#

Killer kills killer

bitter kraken
#

I think Mihawk and buggy get picked up by shanks

#

Not full on join his crew but prolly are allowed to live in his territory being protected

pure raven
left field
#

What about Moria tho, what happened to him with his BB encounter

pure raven
#

I think he either dead or join with BB. He doesn't seem to have many option

left field
#

Rip Perona she’s gonna be all alone

#

Mihawk has his own business now and Perona went to go find Moria after learning where he was

#

BB is doing a lot tho, he attacked the revolutionaries, remaining WB pirates, killed Absalom to give Shiryu invis fruit, now he’s racing the government to obtain what’s probably an ultimate weapon

pure raven
#

Plus are we gonna ignore the fact that some of them will get caught by the marine , The admiral go after them themselves after all

#

Beside Mihawk I don't think any of them strong enough to take down the marine's admiral by themself

pure raven
left field
#

I’m just waiting for Kaido’s backstory, I wanna get some lore on the Rocks pirates

left field
gritty ether
#

when do you think new chapter leaks will be out

left field
#

Idk? Normally they’d be out right now but I can wait as long as I need

versed wave
#

Man, I think the One Piece is in fact a huge drill to cut through Reverse Montain

pure raven
left field
#

Last week they came Tuesday

#

Wait no week before, last week was break

pure raven
pure raven
#

I think there is a forum called Arlong park that is the source

amber oar
left field
#

Oh yeah

#

Time doesn’t really work properly in my head lol

pine delta
#

what if the WG already has the one piece? Roger laughed cus he doesn't have the energy to invade mariejois

bitter kraken
#

I wonder if BB actually was able to clash with the Revos or if they were all gone by the time he got there and he just used the tremor fruit to destroy their base

pure raven
pine delta
#

i feel like the WG would want to find the one piece for themselves, and yet they only focus on destroying the ponegylphs. maybe because the treasure map leads to themselves

left field
#

This theory is a stretch but I believe it: when going merry said “look below!” upon arriving at EL I think she was telling the crew where One Piece is

supple nimbus
left field
#

But the idea of EL hovering over the lost eye of the sky island is a really cool thought

supple nimbus
#

Then it was the other video he made, because I do remember him making the reference to Merry saying, "I will get you to where you want to go" and how it was poetic because allegedly the last place the Merry takes them is EL.

dapper solstice
#

if its below enies lobby, why world government isn’t distroying it.. i think the whole theory is too much stretch

zinc iris
#

If Roger just went below EL 25 years ago much more people would know

wary fossil
#

when merry got to enies lobby, it was just speaking to luffy/usopp that it was there to rescue them

left field
#

Oda is so tricky and smart with his writing that almost nothing that seems the most likely is what happens

#

For example, saying that Yamato is joining because she said she wants to sail with Luffy is a really stupid reason

wary fossil
#

honestly isn't that crazy, people just overanalyze

left field
wary fossil
#

Oda's writing is very intricate but it gets way too tinfoil with the fan theories. He's just good at going back and making something small into a big thing because he already knows how the story ends

left field
#

But when you were reading/watching Marineford for the first time did you think that Blackbeard would hide Whitebeard and then steal his devil fruit ability? cause I sure as hell didn’t

#

Did I think at any point during Alabasta that Nico Robin was gonna be waiting on the Merry? Hell no

wary fossil
#

no but there was nothing in the writing before that was making it like some grand plot woven through all time

left field
#

The sole objective of theories isn’t to be correct, I hope ur aware of this

wary fossil
#

if anything about alabasta was mindblowing it was the reveal of pluton

#

Umm, yes that is the objective of theories. Theories themselves are fun to delve into but the purpose is to predict what will happen

left field
#

Theories are meant to be imaginative, interesting and creative. The whole point of them is to let your mind run wild with guessing the story based on parts of the story you consider to be valid evidence for your beliefs

#

I bet there are ppl back when early water 7 was being written who boldly stated Franky is joining not Paulie and then got laughed at

wary fossil
#

that's just saying you're trying to be correct lol

left field
#

I don’t think you’re getting my point

wary fossil
#

no I get your point you just are trying to make it so that I like your point but I don't care for it. Yes, theories get imaginative and it is fun, but the purpose is to guess what happens. That's literally why.

left field
#

I’m just trying to say that OP has shown to be unpredictable so many times that throwing stretches in theories isn’t even the worst idea

wary fossil
#

Just because it is fun and imaginative doesn't mean it should be held with high praise. It's a theory. It's meant to be picked apart and added to

left field
#

Some of the stretches in Ohara theory didn’t make sense though I will say that

#

Have u seen the theory that Zoro is gonna be the one who fixes Sanji’s current crisis on r/OnePiece? Beautifully crafted, worth reading

wary fossil
#

no and don't really care for it because that's the easy tell. Sanji is just scared of what could happen and Zoro is the type of person to snap a SH out of their bs in the middle of a battle especially as Sanji's rival

#

and it's not as if Sanji was the most clutch in the raid as this mfer got distracted by ladies at one of the most important times

bitter kraken
#

Zoro is dumb no way he can fix anything on a genetic level lol

wary fossil
#

idk why people aren't jumping on Kidd theories as he's the real important non-Luffy character here

left field
left field
bitter kraken
#

Sense yeah but what’s happening to sanji is his body is literally changing on a genetic level he isn’t a normal human being physically so his augmentations have been activated the loss of emotions is prolly one of them, but most likely won’t because I mean come on lol I like to think the drug Sanjis mom used will let him keep his emotions cause otherwise she died for nothing if not that queen seems very interesting in Germa tech kinda not likely but after the war if queen is still alive he might be able to fix sanji somehow. If only to mess with judge

left field
#

I mean yeah I don’t think Sanji will lose his emotions from this but he’s still paranoid about losing them

#

Someone’s gotta get him to focus on the battle in front of him

wary fossil
#

Sanji's "crisis" getting blown out of proportions. He's clearly still emotional, his mom still took the drug to counteract the genetic modification that happened while she was pregnant (which also means the raid suits are more for battle augmentation like bulletproof/fire resistant/etc), Chopper is still alive and performing doctor feats in Wano, and Zoro got the Enma powerup and Sanji needs something beyond the raid suit because it would be pretty weak if Sanji had to put the raid suit on every time to fight somebody big

left field
bitter kraken
#

The raid suit is part of Sanjis combat arsenal and nothing wrong with him using it, the suit is to sanji like the swords are for zoro and zoro ain’t weak for using swords he’s a swordsman lol but like sanji just recently got the suit so I can see why peeps don’t like him having it since we are used to seeing him with straight up kicks in a suit and tie

wary fossil
left field
#

Projecting yourself onto the characters makes the story a much better experience and makes you understand the emotions and goals they have much more

#

At least that’s what I believe anyway, not all ppl have to agree and that’s fine

spice berry
wary fossil
pure raven
#

you guys think we'll get a Tenshi Tenshi no Mi set of Devil fruits in the future?

modest skiff
#

We have no real reason to think one way or the other

pure raven
#

Tenshi Tenshi : Model Lucifer or Saint Michael

modest skiff
#

Yeah, that could happen, but we don't have any indications from anything in the story to imply it. That is more so baseless speculation rather than a theory. We could wonder a nearly infinite number of things if we aren't relying on any sort of indications within the canon

mint prairie
real bone
#

Kidds significant cause of his red hair and shanks and he’ll prob be like like a white beard to luffys roger

junior cape
#

Nah Kid's a bit too chaotic to be a Whitebeard-type character. He'd be more like (canon) Shiki; an adversary at times, a compatriot at others, but always scheming, always doing something in the background.

dapper solstice
mint prairie
dapper solstice
#

another thing is so weird like why people need to draw parallel.. luffy becomes roger, kid becomes whitebeard/shiki, koby maybe like garp and so on.. the new young generation has their own identity and they may be similar in some aspects but they r unique

junior cape
#

yeah

left field
heady lintel
#

It’s consistent he’s able to dodge and react to kizarus lasers

image0.jpg
#

In terms of perception of this one^

broken kelp
#

Yeah that's true. But now he's literally faster than time itself

heady lintel
#

Woah woah

#

I wouldn’t say time itself

#

Light sure but not time

modest skiff
heady lintel
#

Also why do you think he doesn’t kick at the speed of light?

wild veldt
#

Cause the speed of light has varied

#

🏃‍♂️

modest skiff
heady lintel
#

It just seems impossible at first but understanding it would make it make sense a bit more

modest skiff
#

Yeah, probably best to just accept it and move on

heady lintel
#

Yeah have a good evening tho

weak arrow
#

@grizzled rock serious theories only

#

Aight

dense carbon
#

ban

lone hedgeBOT
#

koyabotOk Dougglas#0343 was banned!

#

koyabotOk shayan#2721 was banned!

potent belfry
#

vegapunk have already study how the powers of pika pika no mi works and that's why he have achieved replication of light beams used in pacifista

#

also in sabaody archipelago we saw kizaru make an appearence

#

do you think kizaru is related to vegapunk?

#

maybe the same person?

near osprey
#

Nahh Vegapunk is his own character

#

Doubt he'd be Kizaru the whole time

potent belfry
#

kizaru is an admiral and that means he have a lot of responsibilities,I cant imagine he had the time to let vegapunk replicate his abilities

near osprey
#

Seeing as how he hasn't been seen yet odds are he's a rare race Oda isn't ready to introduce yet like a Lunarian

potent belfry
#

expect if vegapunk extract his lineage factor and instead creating an artificial df just replicate some techniques of his df

near osprey
#

Plus Vegapunk is too important for the WG to be putting him on front line shit like an Admiral

#

He runs the SSG

#

Can't be out here doing science experiments and being the head of an entire division and sail out to catch a pirate at a moments notice

#

Kizaru would have to be a god of a man to pull that off.

potent belfry
#

he can "teleport" using speed of light

#

so he can be anywhere

stoic reef
#

Green Bull is Shimotsuki Ushimaru. The only scene with him he is seen starving himself for Yamato, and the admiral is known for starving himself.

near osprey
#

He can only travel in a straight line he can reasonably move across the ocean that way

near osprey
potent belfry
#

i cant upload a png why

near osprey
#

and isn't Fujitora already originally from Wano

bitter kraken
#

Ushimaru is long dead, and the the two other samurai escaped and prolly were personally killed by kaido no way he woulda let someone like a shimotsuki escape

stoic reef
potent belfry
#

there is a photo with ushimaru wearing a kimono with black bulls

#

green*

near osprey
#

I mean I'm not saying he's wrong I haven't really looked into Green Bull enough to provide a counter argument

stoic reef
#

Zoro's attacks also usually involve bulls as well and its very obvious by now that Shimotsuki Ushimaru is his father.

near osprey
#

I can't imagine two Admirals would come from Wano

bitter kraken
#

Why do you think it’s obvious that he is zoro’s father?

stoic reef
potent belfry
near osprey
#

Zoro also shared a resemblances with Ryuma didn't he?

visual merlin
#

yes

stoic reef
#

Hygoro even says zoro reminds him of Shimotsuki Ushimaru and in Yamato's flashback they look very similar.

bitter kraken
#

Yes I read the manga but I’m asking like why you think it’s obvious lol that he is his father and not something like an uncle?

near osprey
#

He could be a Shimotsuki I mean Sanji did end up being a Vinsmoke

#

Wouldn't be surprised if Zoro also came from a Legendary Family from Wano

visual merlin
#

because father is simpler

stoic reef
potent belfry
#

and they are all one eye swordmans

visual merlin
#

it doesn't have to be overcomplicated, Ushimaru's either gonna be his dad or grandad depending on the timeline

bitter kraken
#

Yeah zoro is for sure from that family, but idk if it’s gonna be as straight up as father and son

near osprey
#

I think if we end up finding out about Zoro's Heritage it'd be in Wano

stoic reef
near osprey
#

Did we ever get the scene when Zoro visited Ryuma's Grave?

#

Or was it a scene Oda skipped over for later?

bitter kraken
#

I don’t think they say luffy resembles dragon physically tho

near osprey
#

Yeah he more resembles Roger than anyone else imo

stoic reef
near osprey
#

But I'm not saying he's Roger's either I don't think Garp would lie about who his Grand Sons Dad is

amber oar
#

Luffy himself says Dragon doesn't resemble him, after seeing his photo for the first time

G4 Luffy kinda resembles tho

near osprey
#

Luffy's Mom is actually Roger's Sister dun dun dunnnnnnnn

amber oar
stoic reef
near osprey
#

Luffy got his nose for sure

visual merlin
#

pretty sure its just that iva sees luffy make a similar face to a face dragon makes often

#

not that they actually look similar

near osprey
#

They don't really need to be a photo copy of one another either

#

It'd be pointless to switch up Luffy's Heritage this late in anyways

amber oar
#

yeah that's pretty much established

near osprey
#

Only character I wanna see reunite with their parent the most is Usopp

#

I can't wait to see a scene between Yasopp and Usopp

#

Rewatched the beginning of the Sea Battle yesterday and when Luffy, Law and Kidd are together you're in for just amazing interactions.

#

Hope we can continue the remainder of the anime with those three fighting together

stoic reef
#

It could also be possible to green bull is present at Wano. Remember when the Cp0 guys talks about the ships waiting outside Wano?

near osprey
#

I don't imagine we'll get too many important figures on Wano like that I imagine CP-0 was the worst they sent.

#

If we get any surprise visits past that I think it'd be Shanks

stoic reef
#

yeah tbh that second theory is alot more of stretch than the first one, but I'm just having fun thinking about what might happen.

amber oar
#

That's Cipher Pol ships apparently, though
CP works on their own, they aren't under the Navy. Sakazuki already decided not to act.

Then again, Admirals are directly under CDs' command, so if the Elders request one of them to aid CP, so be it

near osprey
#

I'd like to finally see Green Bull but he's for later I'm sure.

amber oar
#

I think we'll see right after the end of the arc, not in Wano.

stoic reef
#

Yeah I do feel like he has something to do with the capture of Sabo, but who knows.

near osprey
#

He does

#

Sabo was fighting him and Fuji

amber oar
#

Sabo did have a clash with both Fujitora and Ryokugyu

near osprey
#

People who think Sabo got away are just as crazy as those people who think Luffy is going to fail the raid.

#

Be like "I just don't think he's ready yet"

wet thicket
#

I think sabo got framed for a crime he didn’t commit

near osprey
#

Yeah that's the general theory for the most part...we all imagine he was framed for Cobra's Murder

bitter kraken
#

I like to believe sabo was able to clash with them and get away, he’s second in command of the Revos that’s gotta hold some weight in combat and it’s not like dragon would be dumb enough to deploy him there if he didn’t think the force he sent was capable

halcyon talon
#

Nearly 100 chapters ago or so kizaru asked akainu if he should go to wano and sort this out. Would it make sense that kizaru is the one that's sent with the fleet of ships to wano to intervene?

amber oar
#

My problem with Sabo captured is that will look like Ace all over again

wet thicket
#

Same I don’t want an ace 2.0

#

What do you guys think the SSG will be?

amber oar
#

augmented soldiers with logia or mythical zoan powers

wet thicket
#

I think they’re gonna be a group of Marines that were given op artificial devil fruits

#

We’re on the same page haha

#

Also they could have successfully gone through the gigantification process, not only does it make you bigger but multiplies ur base stats as well

#

Like artificially increases ur haki

iron current
#

there is so much stuff Vegapunk could have potentially developed but yeah, those are the 2 most likely options i feel like with what we know so far at least

stone ibex
#

Why spoilers not here yet

junior cape
#

Because this ain't the spoiler channel, and it's tuesday.

amber oar
#

korean boy went brrr, but this is #manga-theories and therefore, not the place to ask

junior cape
#

Yup

modest skiff
#

Spoilers, even alluding or vague references, are strictly forbidden outside of spoiler channels

stone ibex
#

Got it, thanks

supple anchor
# wet thicket What do you guys think the SSG will be?

i think its Pacifistas but ones that can use logia and paramecia powers. Its been established that only zoan fruits can be used to give powers to objects, but there is one kinda exception Kuma. Kuma doesnt live in the classical sense anymore and i think he was the first successful experiment of creating a non-living thing with paramecia powers

wet thicket
#

That would be boring no offense, rather have new characters with unique personalities

junior cape
#

Yeah

pure raven
#

@modest skiff hey can you link your vegapunk theory, I never fully finished reading it😳

modest skiff
#

Hi @pure raven, I'm happy to link it and appreciate you asking: #manga-theories message This reminds me that you tagged me in a theory previously and I forgot to respond. I will do my best to respond tonight but otherwise I will tomorrow

junior cape
#

I hope that once we're done with Wano, Oda expands on the process of Awakening one's Devil Fruit. So far, the only step we know is "Have a devil fruit power and get really good with it."

warm saffron
junior cape
#

I don't doubt that Rayleigh would know, but I don't think it would come up in his training. At that point, the only awakened users Luffy'd met were the jailer beasts of Impel Down, and he was kind of busy at that time, so he may have missed it. We only really got fully introduced to the concept with Doflamingo, who could turn everything into string, and Katakuri, who could generate and convert mochi into all sorts of things.

warm saffron
junior cape
#

hmmm

#

maybe, but i doubt it. Rayleigh was there to deal with teaching him Haki, not much else.

warm saffron
junior cape
warm saffron
junior cape
#

According to the Wiki.... "The Five Jailer Beasts are the most feared creatures within the confines of Impel Down due to their great strength coupled with their blood lust and ruthlessness. Due to the original four guards being "awakened" Zoan users, they are incredibly durable and recover quickly from injury.[4]"

warm saffron
junior cape
#

It seems to be the case that Zoans awaken to a new form, and gain increased physical stats all around. Chopper is a SPECIAL CASE, where he did not properly unlock his awakened form, but forced it with drugs. That's why he gets all those side effects.

#

And let's be real, if awakening your fruit were so easy, why haven't Kaido, Big Mom, Blackbeard, and all their officers done it? There has to be some key step to it that we're missing.

warm saffron
#

I guess, seeing as how he doesn’t rejuvenate as fast as the beasts of impel down, and any injury down to him can be fatal, unlike the beasts of impel down

junior cape
#

Oh the Jailer Beasts can certainly DIE, it's just that the prisoners weren't trying to kill them. They were trying to GTFO, which is why they knocked them out and ran off.

warm saffron
junior cape
#

Oh i know what you mean, they got steamrolled a TON in the Impel Down arc, their toughness is no joke, but at the time, nobody's objective was to try and kill a Jailer beast

warm saffron
#

True, true, but luffy did go so as to do gear 3rd, his strongest at the time, to keep them down for a couple of minutes

#

If lucci had trouble with gear 3rd, then you know that someone strong enough to stand tall after being hit by that is tough

junior cape
#

yeah

raw grotto
#

if anyone reads this tell me how you feel

pure raven
#

ace is dead

#

take fruit of demon ah Sabo

heady lintel
#

Alternate egos

gray creek
#

Kizaru hasn’t shown the ability to stretch his skull

bitter kraken
#

It would be a good cover tho lol no one would think that the greatest scientist is that lazy guy

hoary cargo
heady lintel
tawdry flax
#

Kaido drowns and wont do nothing abt it cuz he wanna die

violet grove
#

otama feeds kaido her fruit when hes weakened

bitter kraken
#

It only works on smile users

left field
#

How tf did Otama even get her ability

pure raven
#

This theory sounds cool @modest skiff , but there's one thing it doesn't explain. If the plan of the revolutionaries is simply to get the jump on the WG with the new emerging technology(SSG), than why would Sabo and other revolutionaries want to save him if they know his consciousness was into another android? Drago had a meeting with the leaders of the revolutionary to discuss the truth of Kuma's case so shouldn't they have already know that it's a fruitless goal?

unknown.png
#

It's weird but I think Kuma may have more so just sacrificed himself in order to protect his friends, to sorta parallel with what he did with Zoro. I just assume Vegapunk would give him the same honor. Just a head-cannon of mines though UsoppSus

#

However he's probably not dead or else he's devil fruit wouldn't have remained intact, since DF powers leaves you when you're actually dead. Instead his consciousness was likely changed to a common android. Since Doflamingo did say a lot of his body parts were replaced

unknown.png
#

Kuma's alive just brain dead, but I don't really know what purpose Oda has for him or even what kind of person Vegapunk is to be honoring a final request like protecting the Straw Hat's ship

#

But he's probably just neutral to either side. Since he turned Kuma into an android that obeys he World Government but also honored that suspicious last request of his.

#

just my conclusion

pure raven
scarlet mirage
#

@pure raven first of all, I love your profile pic. Secondly, back to your question about why the Rev. Army would want to save Kuma, what if they don't know about that ability of Kuma. Like, what if Kuma discovered this ability while being experimented on and just wasn't able to tell them?

#

Just out of pure curiosity.

pure raven
# scarlet mirage <@456226577798135808> first of all, I love your profile pic. Secondly, back to y...

Thanks I'm a Supremacist for her🥳, but about Kuma just discovering this ability while being experimented on it would honestly just be a speculation/reach since there wouldn't be any evidence to support it. And even if he did discover that ability like it's being speculated he would of notified the revolutionaries by now: given it's been 2 years and they don't really look to have been notified by him I would imagine someone of his capabilities would do it quite easily. Since he can swipe consciousness by will so it wouldn't really be hard to at least once to contact them in the course of 2 years.

#

It would be out of character for him to just have this ability and not saying anything to the revolutionaries

#

for 2 whole years

#

But he doesn't appear to have said anything to them, so I would just conclude it's unlikely

scarlet mirage
#

True true. Agh, I'm just so curious. Thank you for answering!! And yes, as everyone should be!! We stan a Queen!

raw grotto
mint prairie
#

In Chapter 977, Luffy decides to postpone Jinbei's official joining to the team until the raid succeeds. If Yamato was expected to join since then, that leaves room for celebrating both of them after the raid, instead of having two separate parties. Something to note is Carrot was not present in Jinbei's would-be party, so I think she won't be joining after Wano.

raw grotto
hushed harness
#

Theory: Tashigis father is in the marines, he is Kuinas uncle, so it's a Shimotsuki, maybe Zoro's father who left Wano. Tashigi and Zoro are siblings

pure raven
gray flower
clear ridge
#

2022 is Year of the tiger , Luffy gear 4th tiger man. That’s my theory

spice berry
lone forum
pure raven
# gray flower Could be that Kuma intends on getting his body back eventually, and Sabo can’t s...

That didn't really answer my questionOdenDisgust , you know Sabo wasn't the only one who had the intent to save Kuma. it was other revolutionaries as well it was simplicity stated multiple times they want to rescue him, so I fail to see how this is merely about disrespect.

Also assuming Vegapunk is on their side like the theory says, it wouldn't matter how damage he is. Since it can be repaired. His body is also not dead as it still bleeds bloods and his DF remains.

pure raven
gray flower
# pure raven That didn't really answer my question<:OdenDisgust:809521755155988482> , you kno...

Your question was why would sabo and others want to save him if his consciousness is somewhere else, my answer was because kuma would probably want his body back and the revos can’t stand the idea of Kuma’s body being used the way it is (I just wrote sabo out of laziness but clearly that doesn’t fly by you).

So, why would Kuma want his body back? Well because it’s his body lol. There is no further need to justify that.

Why would the revos get mad watching Kuma’s body get trampled over? Gee idk why anyone would get mad over watching the body of their pal get trampled all over by the people they despise the most. It’s not about whether Kuma can be repaired, it’s about not being able to sit back and watch shit like that happen without taking action.

#

Also the celestial dragons are heartless bastards, it’s not beneath them to work / abuse Kuma’s body beyond repair. If the theory holds and Kuma intends on getting his body back, there is a lot of motivation for the revos to want to rescue his body.

pure raven
# gray flower Your question was why would sabo and others want to save him if his consciousnes...

I don't think you're understanding my question, although it was more rhetorical ill elaborate. Dragon met with all the revolutionary leaders 2 years ago to talk about why Kuma was like that. Let's assume they know his conscious bouncing ability though, it would be incredibly foolish to try and rescue him knowing he's not really in danger. When you say because he wants his body, that makes no sense to me, when you take into account what his abilities are capable of. if he's in another android it would be quite easy to teleport it to a different location like Baltigo.

Why would the revos get mad watching Kuma’s body get trampled over?

by that logic they would feel the same way about every Pacisfista's that look like him. Even though they clearly know it's not really Kuma.

vestal orbit
#

don't think people are generally as cold and rational as that

kuma would probably still care about his true body as would the revolutionaries

#

though kuma's body retaining his fruit abilities would probably be another motivator for kuma to want his body back

gray flower
#

Iirc, kumas paws are still stuck on his main body, which means wherever his consciousness is (I don’t want to assume in another android, tho possible), it can’t do what Kuma can do with his actual body.

Also Kuma may not be able to return his consciousness to his main body atm due to what Vegapunk did to it.

Under these ideas, despite him desiring his main body, he can’t get it back and needs the rescue. If true this would mean it’s not within Kuma’s capacity to escape without aid.

#

Also yeah even as a husk that main body has sentimental value, like if your loved one dies god forbid, you wouldn’t want someone to desecrate that body.

vestal orbit
#

esp considering that they have enough empathy, compassion, etc to wage a nigh hopeless war against the world government

not like the world government's hunting them down because of any reason besides them being revolutionaries

wouldn't make sense for them to be really cold, emotionless, calculating, etc, particularly when it comes to a close friend

gray flower
#

Also even if Kuma can teleport his main body away through a proxy his consciousness possessed, can he use those powers on the proxy body he’s in?

#

What if he can’t, now he’s exposed himself in the heart of enemy territory with no back up or escape. He’s pretty much screwed.

#

So unless Oda wants to make Kuma’s fruit lowkey one of the best survival abilities in the series, with pretty much infinite mobility, there’s a lot of plausibility for why Kuma can’t do anything on his own in the situation he’s in

pure raven
vestal orbit
#

honestly i don't, just found the theory interesting and hope that kuma's alive

gray flower
#

Because that’s the idea as moh presented it, I liked it and wanted to see how believable it would be if I assume it’s true

#

So far I find lots of believability in it

#

Tho as far as evidence goes, none

#

Him bouncing consciousness tho is within the realm of possibility since he can bounce some weirdly specific things like a persons pain

pure raven
#

Yeah it would be cool and interesting, but I just don't really any data that support a conclusion like.

gray flower
#

Also it’d be a shame to lose a character as dope as kuma for a fucking robot slave

pure raven
vestal orbit
#

he sorta does

#

just at speeds so fast that it looks like he's teleporting

#

which is how he sent perona and the straw hats flying across the world

gray flower
#

Idk if Kuma can repel himself like he can repel others. I think being able yo do that would push him beyond the realm of op. Like maybe he can propel himself forward by pushing some air but not what he can do with others

vestal orbit
#

think one of his techniques is already just that though

admittedly he didn't push himself very far but still

gray flower
#

Then again, no reason for him not to be able to. Just me thinking it’d make him really op

vestal orbit
#

yea his devil fruit really is busted as all hell

gray flower
#

Like oh yeah who needs to sail I can just propel myself wherever I wanna go

#

I can push all pain out of my body and if things go really bad I can just dip my consciousness out

#

Idk I feel like he needs to have some limits

#

Like if his paws travel with him from body to body couldn’t he effectively make himself immortal?

vestal orbit
#

oda's prolly just gonna limit with plot OdaIsAHack

gray flower
#

Keep taking a young body as old one hits it’s limit

#

And if the going gets rough his pain gets going

#

Like the only way to beat this guy would be to kill him so fast he wouldn’t realize

supple nimbus
hushed harness
# pure raven Is it baseless or are there some foreshadowing ?

Kuina was a Shimotsuki, so she's also Zoros relative if we get confirmation on Zoro's family.
Kuina and Tashigi look exactly the same, so they could be family, she's a swords woman and could've learned the basics from her father.
Since the only marine left is Ryukugyu (green bull) which is also the emblem and the color of the shimotsuki, and thus he could be the son of the daimiyo who left Wano, which most of us theorize its Zoros father.

mortal field
#

Im also curious about why Jewelry was there in the Reverie to try and save Kuma.

pine delta
#

Alright that actually is a cool theory regarding tashigi heritage

#

I just wanted the plant plant zoan

mortal field
#

Hope he name his normal attacks after plants or flowers and his haki attacks after poisonous plants

delicate hamlet
#

D. Clan Race Theory
To get started, I'm gonna be talking about some races in One Piece.
Lunarians can control fire, Minks can generate electricity, and Fishmen can manipulate water. Along the lines, I was thinking "These 3 seems to be interesting, but doesn't sound complete. Is there a fourth?". One is flames, next is electricity and lastly, water. It gave me the idea of the Avatar, there being Fire, Water, but it's incomplete. Electricity is only an additional power or race, because it's not exactly part of the iconic 4. That being said, only wind and earth are missing. Which lead me to the idea, WEATHER! Daily changes in weather are due to WINDS and storms, seasonal changes happen due to the EARTH revolving around the sun.
Coincidentally enough, this has happened twice in the series, one is from Monkey D. Dragon, when he saved Luffy from being executed by Buggy on the platform, next is when Gol D. Roger fought with Shiki's fleet, which happened to stop because of the sudden change of weather and Shiki was defeated. The connection is that it both happened relating to both "D." characters. It gave me the idea again, "A race?!" controlling the weather could complete the iconic four, Fire, Water, Air and Earth. Hear me out, the whole "D." clan is an entire race itself. The "D." clan is a powerful race which controls 2 out of 4 of the iconic elements. This could also mean that awakening the power to control the weather is an insanely difficult thing to achieve, seeing that only the 2 POWERFUL people that can use it are The Most Wanted Man in the World and the Pirate King. What if their existence was so powerful that their strengths had to be erased from everybody's memories. This may sound like a theory similar to "The government planted microchips to our vaccines", but this may also support the theory that the World Government has the power to erase memories, explaining the lost knowledge of the Ancient Kingdom and many things that surround it.

#

Hear me out for another wild theory. Seeing how Oda's some China fanatic, thinking that he likes the series "The Avatar", we're currently in the Wano arc, Luffy fighting Kaido. There was another wild theory about Luffy's gear 5th or another gear 4th form, and that being "Tiger Man".
That being said, "The eastern Dragon's worst enemy is the Tiger". Even Kaido's dragon form is a design that looks similar to the depiction of the Chinese dragon. In summary, gear 4th/5th really COULD be Tiger Man.

pure raven
#

Fishman Karate/Jujitsu allows manipulation of water, fishmen created the techniques and are well adapted to them but it isn't an innate ability of theirs in the same way Electro is for minks.

#

And I wouldn't quite count on the tiger/dragon motif for Kaido since he's a specific dragon, the Seiryu, which is one of a set of four legendary beasts. It's possible the other three (Suzaku, Byakko, Genbu) would show up elsewhere but after Wano we are well and truly overloaded with special Zoans so I don't think they'd appear outside of movies or some SBS thing.

pine delta
#

random thought, but Joyboy could have an afro as a callback to the power of the afro

hybrid dawn
#

kureha was a doctor for the rock pirates

modest skiff
# pure raven This theory sounds cool <@!310471429130944523> , but there's one thing it doesn'...

I have a couple theories regarding this:

  1. Kuma suspected a traitor in the rev army and he formed this plan entirely independently so that it would never leak, to protect vegapunk

  2. Dragon is in on it, and he also needs to feign ignorance in order to keep it safe

  3. How would Kuma sacrificing himself save the rev army? Do you mean you are assuming Vegapunk had some kinda strategic advantage over the revs and that he threated to harm him unless Kuma obeyed?

  4. I don't trust Doffy to be fully knowledgeable, especially if this was a secret between VP and Kuma. Doffy is just repeating what everyone else knows

  5. Do you know which chapter has Ivankov freaking out? The presence of the paw does not necessarily mean it had his devil fruit power, but I'd like to read through that area of the story to see if Kuma used his actual power while supposedly being brain dead.

Overall, I agree there are a few signs Kuma got owned, but it is also easily justified as subterfuge. We've seen some pretty extensive subterfuge in the story so far, so Kuma tricking everyone is totally possible

I don't think Vegapunk is neutral. No scientist like that would be neutral. He has goals and aspirations and I don't think they align with the WG. I still think he's just using the WG

gray flower
#

I like the theory because it makes vegapunks motives 100x more interesting than “me big brain me work for wg and make robots”. Also brings Kuma back into the story and he’s way more interesting than a robot with his body

pure raven
#

Vegapunk as a revolutionary mole is one of the oldest theories in the fandom

#

I still like it and somewhat anticipate it

gray flower
#

Yeah I never saw Vegapunk as some simple government worker, I mean basically everyone we know related to him is a pirate or something not aligned with wg

pure raven
#

At this point the one thing we can be certain of is he's not a villain

gray flower
#

I think Luffy’s df makes Luffy deceptively durable even vs people with haki. This is because there isn’t much reason to believe that standard haki can extend past the object coated in the haki (because if it does go beyond then it’d be advanced armament and not standard). So if standard armament only allows for you to be able to do damage on a surface level (which is strongly supported by the need to have piercing haki vs people who can brush off surface level damage) and Luffy’s body is rubber throughout, then standard haki hits on Luffy won’t do damage beyond skin level. Luffy’s body will still be able to nullify the impact and be relatively unhurt. This means that you can hit Luffy over and over with haki, and he will feel the pain of all those hits, but his body isn’t going to be any worse for wear (tho the pain could mentally exhaust him). Truth be told if this is true then the passive tankiness of the gum gum fruit is actually pretty terrifying. However anyone with more advanced haki can do real damage to Luffy, refer to kaido.

Also in the case of logia users, the impact of armament haki on their body doesn’t get nullified and magically disappear, so when they take the hit they will receive the damage even if it’s damage done to the surface.

#

Also swords still cut him, tho fun fact about rubber it’s more heat resistant and cold resistant than human skin

junior cape
#

Well we already know that Luffy is basically immune to Blunt Force Trauma, even Haki-coated. But yeah, Haki enables the pain in the hit area.

gray flower
#

Well idt it was ever explicitly made clear that he’s just as immune to blunt force with haki, and that he feels the pain only

sand sail
#

It's made explicitly clear that rubber doesn't apply with haki in the picture, yeh. It got to the point where Luffy hurts himself just bouncing his fist off of Katakuri's

#

It's a nice thought, but contact with haki means you're hitting beneath the fruit and attacking the substantial body under with it

#

But most definitely

#

This means that you can hit Luffy over and over with haki, and he will feel the pain of all those hits, but his body isn’t going to be any worse for wear (tho the pain could mentally exhaust him).

#

This is absolutely not the case

wary fossil
junior cape
#

Kaido at the time hit him with a conqueror coated club. That basically hit his entire head with no ability to dodge. Of course luffy would fall to that if hes never seen it before.

stiff pagoda
#

Speaking of haki and bypassing df resistances, are there any theories about the relationship between them and why haki affects fruits?

wary fossil
sand sail
#

But make no mistake, they are actual injuries. Blood, bruising, scars, heavy internal damage and organ rupturing, Luffy has been wrecked post-skip.

gray flower
sand sail
#

Katakuri beat him nearly to death with his bare hands, he gets drastic damage from blunt attacks. That's the point of haki, there is no mitigation naturally when he's hit with it

#

But that's also his strength in Gear 4th, he warps his body around haki blows so they don't hurt him when he can, but unfortunately that's a conscious effort he has to mean to do

gray flower
#

I mean Kata was definitely beating the ever loving fuck out of Luffy but I never felt like Luffy's life was in danger until Kata pulled his pole out

#

He was definitely causing Luffy immense pain

#

Thing is Luffy doesn't pull a Sanji and talk about his internal condition so it's mostly left for us to interpret how bad he gets hurt there

#

stab wounds again are clear cut cases, no doubt that damage is real

sand sail
#

But we've seen him get pretty bad, if he's spewing up blood often he's getting some heavy internal damage

#

Generic mouth blood is generally a decent bit of damage

gray flower
#

Honestly might be because of that rdc video that I forgot how serious that type of damage is supposed to be

sand sail
#

I'm sure I've seen that one lol

#

But yeh, Luffy gets wrecked pretty hard with blunt damage. His worst injuries post-skip have been almost all from someone just punching him, minus I think only the Katakuri stab

gray flower
#

I think Hody fucked him up pretty bad with those teeth, woulda been neat if it left scars

sand sail
#

That was bad, but it wasn't as bad as what Katakuri does to him later lol

#

And doesn't even compare to what he's gone through in Wano

gray flower
#

In wano tho most the damage Luffy has taken has been from kaido

#

and kaido can hit on a deeper level

sand sail
#

Yeh, but besides the rooftop, the worst damage was one basic armament based Thunder Bagua

gray flower
#

yeah depending on the haki type on the bagua, my theory could be shattered right there with Luffy

sand sail
#

Well, we know it wasn't a conqueror's laden hit since Kaido uses the same move later and it does pretty much nothing noteworthy to Luffy on a glancing blow

#

Vs the Ragnaraku, which puts Luffy down for a few minutes

gray flower
#

Ragnarak without Coc, just the motion of the attack alone seems much more of a brutal hit than thunder bagua as well. I think it has a slower wind up tho and is easier to dodge

#

There is a chance Kaido's haki on the bagua could be advanced armament, I'm not sure but there is a chance.

sand sail
#

Yeh, Thunder Bagua is a dash that Kaido does through someone, Ragnaraku seems to just be a power hit

gray flower
#

lowkey I kinda want to ask oda in an sbs

stiff pagoda
#

Honestly the idea that something is causing pain but not damage in anime is rare unless specifically said, like some kind of magic. I'm not sure why you think this is an exception

gray flower
#

cuz Luffy is unreasonably durable

stiff pagoda
#

he's unreasonably durable because of his power. normally, his power causes him to take no damage at all nor does he feel pain.
but when haki is involved, he feels pain. There's nothing that would suggest he's not taking damage as well

sand sail
#

It's reduced, not complete immunity

raw grotto
#

thats not a theory

sand sail
#

You know what

sand sail
#

But this is a solid ass theory

#

@modest skiff

raw grotto
sand sail
#

@gloomy canyon

raw grotto
#

You probably read the first paragraph and thought it was a troll post FujiKEK

gloomy canyon
#

Yeah fortsy sent me this, lemme give it a read again

#

Sounded intriguing

sand sail
#

Man, I read the title and thought it was a troll post. LUL

#

Usopp will be the key to dissolving the Big Mom-Kaido alliance

Usopp is uniquely positioned as the one person in the series who has what Big Mom desires the most, and she has all the reason to believe him.

When Big Mom spent her childhood in Elbaf we see that she lived with every single Giant that Usopp has befriended on his journey up to this point. Hajrudin is a child training to be a warrior, Oimo and Kashi are present as well and they’re talking about Dory and Broggy. Even Gerd, the girl giant child is present, as she is now part of Hajrudin’s crew that serve under Luffy.

These very same giants who Big Mom knows personally both respect and revere Usopp. Recall what Usopp says to Oimo and Kashi to prove that he knew Dory and Broggy “want to know how they laugh? Their weapons? Their techniques?”

You may have noticed, Big Mom also took inspiration from Dory and Broggy’s technique the “Spear of Elbaf” and uses it frequently herself.

I have found it very curious that the character who has specifically said they can identify the Giants by the attack (and reacts like this upon seeing it) is the only one in the crew who hasn’t had the opportunity to actually see Big Mom use it:

modest skiff
#

Reading now, thanks for the encouragement, bean.

Although I must insist they are slightly roasted: lets not post in all caps

sand sail
#

Posting snippets

#

In fact Usopp, the Strawhat with the deepest connection to the very same Giants that Big Mom personally knows, is the last of the crew to come face-to-face with her.

For someone who loves these two characters and has been keeping an eye out for them, I really thought Oda was messing with me a little because they really kept just barely missing each other in Onigashima. Obviously Big Mom is well versed with the WCI squad (Luffy, Nami, Sanji, Chopper, Brook, Jinbei) leaving just Franky, Robin, Zoro and Usopp:

#

So what happens if/when Usopp does see her use the Spear of Elbaf? Imagine something like the following:

“Spear of Elbaf?! I know that attack! Do you know the Giants too?! They’re my comrades! I'm friends with Dory and Broggy, I fought the World Government alongside Oimo and Kashi, Hajrudin is my underling (all Giants that Big Mom literally knows from having spent the best year of her life with)."

“Lie to me Long-Nose and you’ll pay with your life span!”

And shockingly enough he won’t be lying. Usopp has the one thing Mama desires the most, a pipeline to the dream she had given up on. Can this dynamic actually cause a rift between her and Kaido’s alliance?

#

I really like these bits in particular

#

I've never noticed before, but they're almost right, Usopp was the second to last Strawhat to ever see Big Mom

raw grotto
#

I have found it very curious that the character who has specifically said they can identify the Giants by the attack (and reacts like this upon seeing it) is the only one in the crew who hasn’t had the opportunity to actually see Big Mom use it:

The first time in Whole Cake where she attacks Jinbei, Luffy, Sanji, Nami as they flee

On the Onigashima live floor where Jinbei, Robin, Franky, Brook and Nami are all present

On the roof in conjunction with Kaido where she attacks Zoro, directly mirroring the Dory and Broggy combo

In fact Usopp, the Strawhat with the deepest connection to the very same Giants that Big Mom personally knows, is the last of the crew to come face-to-face with her.

My favorite part

sand sail
#

Pretty sure Zoro was the actual last, since Usopp and Chopper encounter Big Mom before they get into the mansion while Zoro's already in there

raw grotto
#

Out of all the SHs Usopp is the one Big mom sees last. They interacted beforehand but Big mom couldn't see Usopp because he was hidden

sand sail
#

Never put it together before, but this could conceivably get Big Mom to Elbaf. They might just have a rescue Usopp arc from it, hell.

wary fossil
#

that part is a stretch imo but there is a definite connection between big mom and the giants, who usopp has good history with

sand sail
#

Have Big Mom kidnap Usopp in exchange for not killing Nami or something, use him to heal ties since he's friends with them, but get there and see he has no real pull at all

raw grotto
raw grotto
sand sail
#

Big Mom already didn't really care about the alliance with Kaido, this could just give her a reason to betray him and head to Elbaf behind the Strawhats

wary fossil
sand sail
gloomy canyon
#

I’ll give my thoughts after I finish dinner

sand sail
#

They've essentially made her the boogeyman of giants, I could see Big Mom getting overemotional about things and trying to be nice for no reason but thinking she could have her old family back now

#

This is a solid connection straight back to Caramel too

#

Now, I don't think Caramel will bring about some revelation that makes Big Mom go crazy. After 68 years, I don't think it'll be that horrifying for her anymore, but I think she'll halfway destroy Elbaf and end up kind of imploding emotionally about it

#

'Cause the home she'd wanted for so long ended up in ruin because of her stupid hunger, I wouldn't be surprised if she demonizes it at some point and goes nuts

modest skiff
#

I feel like I've been reading this for so long. Must continue

sand sail
#

Yeah it's a lengthy one, I'll be honest I skimmed down to the Usopp bit and stopped there so far to digestOMEGALUL

rugged reef
#

What if conquerors haki aura is a thing like zoro’s ashura and Luffy’s aura is Sun God Nika

stiff pagoda
#

Why sun. Why not monkey wukong

sand sail
#

@visual merlin @pure raven Wanted to see what you guys thought about this one too ^ At least the Usopp bit, it's kind of a long read

pure raven
#

one mo

modest skiff
#

In fact Usopp, the Strawhat with the deepest connection to the very same Giants that Big Mom personally knows, is the last of the crew to come face-to-face with her.

For someone who loves these two characters and has been keeping an eye out for them, I really thought Oda was messing with me a little because they really kept just barely missing each other in Onigashima. Obviously Big Mom is well versed with the WCI squad (Luffy, Nami, Sanji, Chopper, Brook, Jinbei) leaving just Franky, Robin, Zoro and Usopp:

Alright I'm on board

pure raven
#

This is excellent

#

Fucking Usopp going up against Big Mom, I am all for it

sand sail
#

It'd be great if Oda actually uses this to trigger Big Mom betraying Kaido

#

Not like to help the Strawhats directly, just not helping Kaido anymore lol

modest skiff
#

Aesop’s Fables - the famous collection of stories from the storyteller Aesop. Many of the stories have changed over the years, been attributed to others and what is real or fake is sometimes indiscernible. Remind you of anyone? The land of Elbaf (spelled as Fable backwards) is the climax of Usopp’s arc. Aesop’s fable = Usopp’s Elbaf

This dude is a wizard.

pure raven
#

I feel like it might be mutually exclusive with her being defeated

#

And I would rather see her actually brought down

#

But that's still really neat

ashen plaza
#

Hey guys! About the ancient weapon,Poseidon!

Oda is trolling us.

Let me explain :

Sea King = Poseidon, neptune etc

And Shirahoshi =Son of Neptune

Lmao..

This is pun to the core

sand sail
#

I'd be good with her actually going down as well, but it'd be cool to have the Elbaf stuff wrapped up in a bow too. The Aesop's Fables connection has been made before, but I never thought about connecting it like that, hahah

pure raven
#

Neptune and Poseidon are the same person tho

#

If you were making a mythology joke

ashen plaza
#

Yeah,that's the point,they mean the same thing

pure raven
#

Thing is, doing it like that might minimize the need to actually visit Elbaf

modest skiff
#

I am getting close to the end, but I'd like to say that I still think BM ends up allied with Luffy and perhaps this Usopp connection is how that happens. But maybe BM ends up defeated and Katakuri essentially guides the BM pirates in a new direction, allying with Straw Hats

sand sail
#

I guess to be perfectly fair

#

She's done literally nothing but help the Strawhats, for the most part

pure raven
#

I do like the idea of Katakuri picking up the pieces of a broken empire

#

Since Wano? Yeah.

sand sail
#

Like she beat on Luffy, but Luffy wouldn't really care. Pedro's about the only thing that would keep him from wanting to cool things off with Big Mom, and the whole wanting to beat the Emperors thing

pure raven
#

Aside from trying to kill Luffy again, but really who hasn't

#

Yeah but everyone seems to have universally decided that Perospero killed Pedro

raw grotto
sand sail
#

Yeh, even back in WCI the worst thing that happened was Pedro killing himself. Not for lack of trying, but just incidentally that's still something

modest skiff
#

I am deeply confident SHs end up allied with BM pirates in some way. But I am not sure if that alliance includes BM or not. Haven't really decided

raw grotto
ashen plaza
#

Blackbeard might make them join hands for a while

pure raven
#

He stole Jinbe and Sanji from her. No way.

sand sail
#

I can't see them allying, I can only see it going as far as Big Mom doesn't try to kill Luffy anymore and they happen to both go the same direction

#

'Cause she still very much wants to be the Pirate King, too

raw grotto
#

The only way I can see an ally is if Luffy beats her up and she realizes her mistakes and she gets sort of redeemed FujiKEK

pure raven
#

Also Linlin would never live it down if she had to team up with Luffy of all people to fight someone she probably views as an illegitimate emperor.

raw grotto
#

That's why I think she'll experience drastic personality change, probably when she realizes what happens on her birthday, who Caramel was, and then she might change in time for the Final War. Or she could just flat out get defeated and that be the end of it BrookShrug

sand sail
#

They took some injuries for sure, but besides those couple casualties, it was probably the most beneficial location they'd ever gone to post-skip, until now of course

pure raven
#

Who's alive who knew what Caramel did and would tell her?

#

The giants aren't around to bring it up even if they knew

sand sail
#

All of Elbaf, pretty much

pure raven
#

Oh I didn't recall if it ever actually got out to the older ones

raw grotto
pure raven
#

Thought it died with her

sand sail
#

Yeh, it was way more beneficial than Zou too

raw grotto
#

Got themselves major allies with no real damage + road poneglyph

pure raven
#

I mean Dressrosa is probably the most beneficial

sand sail
#

They got a road poneglyph, Jinbei, Sanji got a raid suit and his genes, and Luffy learned future sight

pure raven
#

Given that Luffy got an armada and Sabo got revived

sand sail
#

I can't remember the last time they had a glow up that hard from one arc

#

Oh, true, Dressrosa did drop a fleet on him. That's a close second imo

raw grotto
pure raven
#

Also Wano is basically Enies Lobby 2.0, everyone gets a powerup

sand sail
#

No, the raid suit and genes were the gain lol

raw grotto
#

Ah

sand sail
#

Oh, also presumably a whole other country as allies with Germa being okay with them now

versed hamlet
#

Would whole cake island be considered a country

sand sail
#

No, it's an island within a country

pure raven
#

Luffy has 2 advanced Haki types. Zoro gets a ridiculous magic sword. Nami's climatact is alive now. Sanji has a sentai costume. Chopper has that monster point advancement. Robin has a transformation. Jinbe is a straw hat now.

sand sail
#

The country is Tottoland

modest skiff
# sand sail 'Cause she still very much wants to be the Pirate King, too

The exception I will make with this is that I am not convinced she wants to be pirate king for a selfish reason. I predict she will at one point see Luffy as the one who is actually able to achieve her dream. I do agree it is possible she will "walk the same direction", similar to Kid though

hollow grotto
sand sail
#

But it's totally superficial, she wanted the giants much more

pure raven
#

The giants were her primary means to an end to getting One Piece right?

#

Tho she definitely wanted to reunite with that culture for its own sake to an extent

sand sail
#

Yep, that was her golden ticket she felt

#

That's why she was so upset at Lola, it cost her One Piece to lose the giants in her mind. Which really puts into perspective the power of the country, which I believe was called the strongest out there already

modest skiff
pure raven
#

And it's why I imagine inflation is why the twin giant captains were only worth 100 mil

#

Tho that was also Oda not having things in perspective quite yet

sand sail
#

Oh you think she has an actual One Piece related goal? Maybe, I figured she was just typical with her wants. Kaido seems to have the insider Joyboy info, but Big Mom's never really made any strides toward that

pure raven
#

Linlin's a creature of instinct for the most part

#

Instinct and nostalgia

sand sail
#

So I figured she found out about the treasure first, figured it was just "treasure", and wanted to get it. But then Roger came by, swiped her glyph and got there first

hollow grotto
#

Obviously Big Mom cares about gold, treasure and whatnot, as any pirate would, but her dream would come first before anything else. Luffy's dream directly correlates with needing to obtain the One Piece, whereas having a great death or uniting all races together can be achieved without such needs, but if I was in her position with that much power and I saw the One Piece was within reach, I'd definitely try to reach out for it.

modest skiff
raw grotto
#

It would have to require BIg Mom to be a completely new character though, because Oda has a thing where the villains dreams don't come true. If Luffy has a party of all races at the end of the series (which I suppose will happen) and BM is there, it would be fulfilling a villains dream. But then again you could argue this rule isn't so strict as Enel technically got what he wished for

pure raven
#

Enel was allowed to get his wish because he finally stopped being anyone's problem

#

Took his dumb wooden spaceship and left

sand sail
modest skiff
sand sail
#

We've got a good bit of her motivations, mostly just food and fun it seems

modest skiff
#

I'm not saying its entirely scheming. I really think there are enough little hints about her character and back story that allow for her to just be a crazy, angry weirdo who wants the world to be happy

hollow grotto
# raw grotto ya im the same way, but I can already imagine how thats going to cause a huge di...

It definitely will. Big Mom is one of my favorite characters so I'm definitely bias in that sense but I genuinely believe, unlike the other Yonkou, she has the potential to become either a neutral or allied party in some way towards the end of Wano or beyond. It has been orchestrated that she has a childlike, and honestly, somewhat innocent dream that was plagued by her twisted upbringing thanks to Streusen, and Udon prison was a good example thanks to her amnesia, which caused her to fall back to her instincts, revealing her wholesome side as she was trying to get food for the poor villagers. When she sees Otama again, she's happy to see them, and it isn't until Otama actively goes against her that she starts attacking. An impulsively-twisted child. If O-lin really was just a one-off and she was just being used as a plot device to save Luffy, then sure, whatever, but I'd like if that wasn't all there was to it.

sand sail
#

I can see Big Mom being accepted by Luffy because of that, even

hollow grotto
#

A weaker argument, but an argument nevertheless too, is that Luffy and Big Mom both share the same values in the ways of food and actively tried their best to give food to the poor villagers and were upset when the food was wasted: both reacting the same way to oshiruko being wasted, impulsively attacking despite the consequences

modest skiff
#

I think people look at her rage and violence and stuff as too major a component of her character. Rather than seeing it as an unfortunate component of her nature and upbringing, they see it as her entire character. She wants all races to live in harmony. She provides for the people who live in her paradise. She defends them. She hosts big parties, as Fortsy pointed out.

I think its entirely conceivable that everything she has done has been a means to an end. A noble, kind end. I see her as an extreme version of someone who is very kind yet has a bad temper

sand sail
#

Well, in all fairness, she does have a known great and noble end. Her big and most heartfelt dream was just having a big feast with a loving family who could all look at each other in the eye, so she wasn't the biggest person in the room

modest skiff
#

yeah exactly

hollow grotto
#

The point Oda made is that she's a child who was never told how to behave and never had any parental figures that could control her, and what happens when you combine that with an overpowered devil fruit, brute strength and an environment surrounded by piracy? Not anything good. Combine that with her 'Mother' who disappeared along with all her friends, a question she can't face/doesn't know the answer to being where they are

#

It just creates an impulsive child, corrupted by piracy who turned a blind eye to what she had truly done all those years ago. If she faces her inner demons, ironically as she's based off the Onibaba, it would cause her to have a mental breakdown and face the truth about herself at some point, but whether that's in Wano or Elbaf is hard to say

sand sail
#

I'm just going on record and saying I totally approve of Usopp beating Big Mom by shooting his perfected Tobasco Star into her mouth.

#

See, the way Big Mom is makes it hard to believe she'd care that much this long after

hollow grotto
#

An Emperor of Sweets defeated by spice AkainuLUL

raw grotto
# hollow grotto It definitely will. Big Mom is one of my favorite characters so I'm definitely b...

Ya I've always had this attitude towards her. Oda has definitely left a lot of justification within the story so if she were to become a potential ally and have a character change it wouldn't be something that felt out of nowhere. It also makes sense when you consider her power in her verse, once Luffy defeats her, what will happen? Given the tone of her character a death would be unfitting (unlike Kaido), but she's too big of a threat that she couldn't just be doing nothing during the Final War, no? Implementing her as an ally is probably the way Oda will take, and I reckon she will also be nerfed with her new change in personality

modest skiff
#

I have been saying Luffy + BM alliance for a long time because I don't see her as a strictly "bad guy" for a long time. But I have never had a good means of connecting the two. My assumption for a long time has been that BM has a big, grand goal that likely involves overthrowing the CDs somewhere along the way. I think BM thinks the world can never be the paradise she wants until CDs are gone. And so that is what I have assumed will be what "allies" her with Luffy. I think there are a few different characters who will be like "Oh shit, Luffy appears to legitimately have a shot at overthrowing the CDs. Yolo, let's do this." and I think BM is among that group.

Usopp could be the link I have been missing. What if instead of Usopp being what undoes her, he is the one who convinces her to join up? Just like how Usopp has earned the praise of giants, perhaps BM ends up respecting and listening to Usopp. As the writer of the giant theory pointed out, Elbaf reveres Usopp. Perhaps Usopp's history with Elbaf and giants makes her respect him and want to befriend him

raw grotto
#

She was also completely molded into the way she is, everyone who she knew in her early life apart from the other children thought of her as a threat or a tool for personal gain

sand sail
#

But the molding was all entirely positive until Streussen. She was raised in an extremely loving and caring environment for pretty much her entire childhood

raw grotto
modest skiff
sand sail
#

It wasn't until Streussen that she went on to become a plotting conqueror, but before it she was still fairly violent and softly sadistic

#

Y'know, the rip the wings off a butterfly kind of sadistic that all kids are

#

She never dropped that

raw grotto
hollow grotto
#

And not only that, but Perospero and the Big Mom Pirates kept talking about who would take over if she was to fall, but we don't know how she would fall. It doesn't have to necessarily be something that is negative for Big Mom, and I get the feeling she's treated as a joke constantly by Oda because by portraying her in a much more wacky light despite being an Emperor, it lowers our expectations that she's somebody to see as a threat and, in Wano especially, somebody who can be seen as an ally. And think about the possibilities of Big Mom, an Emperor of the Sea, allied with Luffy. That would be genuinely impressive and downright scary, to be honest.

#

Oda will always try to make us think logically about how Luffy will be seen by the newspaper next time, but if he wanted the world to be truly surprised by the next news we get out of Luffy's adventures, not only does he take an Emperor down (Kaido), but he befriends an Emperor too

raw grotto
#

Nah

#

I don't think the ally will come within the same arc

hollow grotto
#

I'm starting to believe Big Mom is going to be downed in this arc simply because of the Tower Card Hawkins played, in parellel to Big Mom, Kid and Law

#

but it can easily happen in Elbaf too, no doubts about that.

raw grotto
#

It wouldn't make much sense imo, it'd be hard to imagine Luffy being the underdog from that point forward

hollow grotto
#

He wouldn't be seen as an underdog though, that's what would solidify him as an Emperor of the Sea

raw grotto
hollow grotto
sand sail
#

Well, Hawkins doesn't do predictions, he works on probabilities

#

And then bets on the larger percentage every time

raw grotto
hollow grotto
#

It wouldn't be an 'ally' so much as it would to be pacifying her, but the world would view it through the lens that he and Big Mom are allied.

raw grotto
#

That feels cheap

modest skiff
hollow grotto
#

If Big Mom was defeated on Elbaf or Wano, it's indifferent to me either way, and no matter which way it was spun, Oda is generally able to make anything we think is 'unthinkable' happen so never discount anything until we see it FrankyThumbsUp

hollow grotto
#

Bege came up with the plan, but the bomb went off which nobody saw coming and it was all seen as Luffy's grand masterplan

#

Luffy is the runner for Emperor right now, so anything is going to be credited to him, valid or not

modest skiff
#

I agree, I'm just saying in reality I think there's a much more likely path of her listening to Usopp. Also I think your message about Oda's brilliance and ability to elegantly create the unexpected is on point

hollow grotto
#

I try not to praise Oda too much to avoid looking like haha Goda man Goda but there is a genuine genius to his writing that has to be acknowledged

modest skiff
#

I totally let it rip when it comes to praising Oda. I was somewhat putting words in your mouth, but its how I see it. I think Oda is completely unrivaled in his elegance and self-consistency

raw grotto
#

I see good points for her being defeated here or in Elbaf. The main thing I'm afraid of if she's defeated here is will it be a good conclusion for her character and will it feel like a satisfying win for the new gen / deserved? What happens to the Luffy vs BM? Regarding Elbaf, its the fact her character may start to feel like a drag being so important in three long arcs

hollow grotto
#

There are so many conversation points that have been discouraged or downright 'disproven' and then turn out to happen anyway because it's Oda, so I've provided my thoughts - I don't have the answer to everything obviously but I do think Big Mom isn't going to be seen in the same way as the rest of the Emperors by the end of the series

modest skiff
#

I agree Fortsy. But then again, I am also a BB apologist/conspiracist, so maybe you don't want my agreement. I remain confident BB thinks he is Joyboy and everything he is doing is for an anti-hero purpose

hollow grotto
#

That's why it's best to leave it up to Oda because either way, I'll be satisfied.

modest skiff
#

Agreed

hollow grotto
#

The point isn't where she goes down, it's how she goes down and if she's seen as an ally or not, the reason for the theory

#

I do think it's possible, given how much she's painted as a good person with a twisted, child-like attitude, and given that the story she's based off has the Onibaba, which is a demon hag that faces her inner demons and attones for the sins she's done, with all of the previous Onibaba influence that dictated all of Whole Cake Island, it wouldn't surprise me if she did turn into some sort of 'neutral' or 'allied' party

raw grotto
hollow grotto
#

And I generally trust Oda with his executions

#

except actual executions, those rarely happen ChopperAngery

prime wing
#

What do you guys think it take for a user of the Revive Fruit to die? They have to die for the Devil fruit to be reborn, but the whole point of the Revive DF is they are reborn as a skeleton

grizzled fog
#

Well that’s not the point of it, Brook is an exception. You’re supposed to be revived as you were when you died, but brook couldn’t find his body before it decomposed

#

If his bones were crushed he’d probably die though

sand sail
#

^ That's the way he confirmed he could die

grizzled fog
#

I do wonder how it normally works though. If you get beheaded with the fruit and immediately come back to your body, do you regain your head? Or do you just live headless defying logic like brook does currently. I suppose it’d be the same as brook

modest skiff
pure raven
#

Its time we see about other yonkous like shanks and BB

near osprey
#

I doubt we're not going to see more of BM

#

But she'll most likely be put back on the back burner until Oda next needs her.

pure raven
# modest skiff I have a couple theories regarding this: 1) Kuma suspected a traitor in the rev...

If dragon is feigning ignorance, do you know why he would keep it a secret from his top executives like Sabo? It just feels counter intuitive, for him to not saying anything to his commanders and have them attempt to rescue Kuma when he doesn't really need it. Since he would already be in another body.
When I think Kuma is sacrificing himself, I don't necessarily believe Vegapunk is the cause but more so the WG; seems to be something that was already agreed on a head of time though since Kuma was never really complete.

unknown.png
#

And yeah even when still brain dead Kuma could still use his DF powers, he did so against Oars during the war

unknown.png
modest skiff
#

If no one else needs to know, there is not reason to tell Sabo. For something as major as VP/Kuma, I could see an argument in favor of just Dragon not saying anything. I think it is more likely that Kuma did his own thing for the sake of revs, but I think its possible Dragon knew. More likely Dragon didn't know

#

IMO Kuma still using his DF while being supposedly brain dead almost makes me think he wasn't actually brain dead. Also possible VP put his brain back after.

For me, the main thing that makes this whole thing feel like "Kuma must be a spy" is that there is no clear reason for him to work for WG when he was a rev previously. I can't think of anything short of saving the revs that would make sense for Kuma to turn

weak arrow
#

I think Dragon knows why Kuma did what he did, as do maybe the other revolutionaries, but I don’t think any of them know kuma concocted any sort of plot with Vegapunk (which I do think happened)

sand sail
#

I believe Dragon knows about that at least, he was giving Ivankov some kind of information regarding Kuma after Marineford

#

But they do all know about what happened to him as far as his becoming a human weapon

#

I'm assuming that Dragon was telling Ivankov something besides "Yeah, the Tenryuubito kidnapped him and made him a mindless cyborg" anyway

pure raven
#

Possibly but I think he at least told many of the revolutionaries about the truth of Kuma's case since after Wb war they were having a summoning.
But I guess they still saw him as like a hostage to the WG so there's probably something else going on, not sure if it's consciousness though. It feels to easy how he just agreed to becoming a cyborg so there was probably an agreed upon deal before hand. Since he did Volunteer to be experimented on, it makes me think that Vegapunk is the one who's in control he may be an ally of the rev idk behind that though

pure raven
#

If there is a strategic advantage I think it has something to do with his past and Jewelry Bonney

modest skiff
#

yeah there's so much mystery around both kuma and bonney that i kind of just kind of gave up on being entirely certain about anything about either of them

raw grotto
#

Go back and read the Crocodile fights, its really the same exact structure

Round 1 is overconfident and can't even hurt them, gets clapped immediately

Round 2 learns how to hurt them (Water and CoC attacks) but comes up short. He is dropped from high above into the sand below with his water drained from Crocodile. He falls from high above into the sea when he is this time drained of Haki after fighting Kaido

After round-2 he recovers in a distinctly "Luffy way." He eats a feast from Caribou here before going back up to Onigashima. In Alabasta he takes a nap and gets some rest before going down to the Mausoleum.

Its structurally the same thing, and the parallels extend so far beyond that. They're even fighting against a bomb that threatens to blow up the capital city now.

Kaido is being defeated now. No more Raid is failing BS. This is luffys last fight w kaido

junior cape
# raw grotto Go back and read the Crocodile fights, its really the same exact structure Roun...

That structure could be applied to a bunch of OP villains though. If we really wanna go back, let's look at Arlong. Starts off with Luffy and co rocking up, Luffy wiping the fodder, then getting tossed in the ocean. Round 1. Then we have Zoro and the rest wiping out the officers, and buying time for Luffy to get back in the ring. Interlude and recovery. Finally, Luffy's back in action in a comical way (flying up in the sky), and Arlong gets beat up and broken down. Round 2+. Oda has been using this structure for a while.

terse gorge
#

damn

random zealot
#

Law HARD CARRIED ONCE HE MASTERS AWAKENING HE WILL ONLY NEED SLIGHTLY BETTER HAKI 🧑🏽‍🦯

paper shard
#

Dang that chapter was ham

gloomy canyon
random zealot
#

Bro law carried and Law and Kidd not beating bigmom law teleported them away

grizzled fog
#

He didn’t, law just teleported kid out from under BM, so he didn’t get crushed by 10 tons of fat.

brave shell
#

Awaken power is here

junior cape
#

Ok, so it seems awakening your fruit power is a commonly known CONCEPT in the new world. That explains why Crocodile knew about it pre-timeskip from his warlord days. But the process is still unknown. Anyway, if Kid and Law can do it, I expect Luffy to be able to do it shortly after Wano, if not during the raid.

#

And finally, at last, I believe Kanjuro is down and out, permanently this time. This is good. With him out of the picture, and Oden's successor Yamato en route to Orochi, we're looking at the Kurozumi Clan finally meeting their destiny.

#

As for awakenings, we now know that they explicitly expand upon a core aspect of one's devil fruit. For Kid's magnet-magnet fruit, the core aspect was him being the magnet; his awakening is being able to make OTHER people the magnet. For Law's op-op fruit, the aspect is the room, or rather, the ability to create a space where most everything is his to control; his awakening is that he can now coat things in his room in order to forcibly operate on targets, even if their haki is stronger.

#

Extrapolating this to Luffy, the gum-gum fruit is very simple. First, it turns the user into rubber completely. Second, it allows them to control how and when they stretch to a reasonable degree. Based on this, awakening can do one of several things: it could allow luffy to turn other things into rubber, throwing opponents for a loop and giving him cheap shots, or it could let him force things that aren't rubber to stretch like they are while he's touching them, making weapons less effective (think of an iron ball turning into a dodgeball when it hits you, then reverting after it bounces off). Personally, I think the second is more likely, since Luffy's power doesnt allow him to generate mass like the wax-wax or string-string fruits.

idle meadow
#

So, is Luffy also going to awaken or not yet?

junior cape
#

I think he will, but not yet. Maybe after Kaido he'll notice something is off, and go to explore it.

#

But that cant happen until next week at least

#

Raids likely gonna end in 10 chapters or less, methinks.

#

And then itll be 10 chapters or so of catchup and sorting out loose ends

#

And BAM!!! Off to save Sabo.

#

Something like that. 1050 is gonna be big I'm sure

terse kite
#

i think luffy will awaken during the kaido fight

rigid charm
#

Or oda can give luffy the ultimate starchiness like this

#

He can go elephants gun without blowing air

ancient vault
#

@pastel summit not my idea but what if apoo is actually lying?

#

Lying to x drake to make him lower his guard

pastel summit
#

Uhh, maybe.

#

It seems like the translations says something more along the lines of "We'll take everything and run" or something, as opposed to beating everyone after they're weakened.

ancient vault
#

mhm okay

#

but I think u were right in what u pointed out

#

Apoo couldnt even take on a half dead Kaido with 3 numbers

teal nymph
#

how come kin's legs can talk but not hear or see ? can this be a mistake on oda's part ?

vague lava
#

huge theory apoo is part of cp 0 cause what does he has to gain with allying with drake especially when knowing he is a navy officer and how would it be easy picking after the battle what can the 2 of em really do unless apoo is part cp 0 and/or drake also called in a buster call

tranquil rivet
fathom matrix
#

knew it

I have a feeling he's gonna get caught the last second

kMnTNtT.png
split glacier
zinc rock
#

The reddit community is complaining about Kinemon being alive again.

Honestly I like how the story is going.

#

And I had a hunch that Apoo/Drake/Numbers will face Lucci's crew.

bitter kraken
#

So it was law that saved the scavs? Or did Law split Kin and then someone new came? The one who was silhouette

left field
zinc iris
dusk owl
dusk owl
zinc iris
dusk owl
radiant blade
#

so are there anymore theories of the "legend" lurking in wano?

zinc iris
radiant blade
#

makes sense

#

not rocks himself, but the rocks pirates right

#

which is how it would be related to whitebeard and also luffys biggest enemy yet, coming in the form of two yonkou

zinc iris
#

well I personally I think it's an improper way to regard it but it's obvious at this point what Oda was alluding to anyway

bitter kraken
#

I thought apoo would be killed, but it seems he has control over the numbers or atleast they rock with him which means he’s got some power up his sleeve in using them

zinc iris
#

to quote myself from a while ago

it's as if Paul McCartney and Ringo Starr write a piece together and we call it the return of the Beatles despite the fact that isn't even half the band and John Lennon is dead
where is the legend in this
they don't embody nothing but themselves

inland kiln
#

At the end of the battle when marines pull up, Ryokugyu is gonna appear

dusk owl
inland kiln
#

He looks like Zoro

dusk owl
#

thats rlly it lmfao

inland kiln
#

And he is also a swordsman

dusk owl
#

i dont get the "Green Bull is zoro's dad theory" can some1 explain?

#

💀

inland kiln
zinc iris
#

it's still bad

dusk owl
zinc iris
#

truly luffy not being roger's son was a fluke from oda's part

dusk owl
zinc iris
#

and we now are back at naruto-level storytelling

inland kiln
dusk owl
inland kiln
#

Nah bro I think Ace is your grandma

dusk owl
#

omg i have same skin color as usopp!!! usopp might be my brother?!

inland kiln
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I guess we’ll never know

dusk owl
#

😭

zinc iris
# dusk owl i fr thought he was rogers son

it toys a lot with the concept then there is the masterstroke of roger's son existing but being someone else that then dies mid-story
and now instead we have zoro being ryuma's descendant making him becoming the best swordsman no longer an underdog story but a birthright made manifest

boreal mist
#

Tho for real, I don't get the thing about birthright as world strongest swordsman

#

There are even plenty of instances of children of athletes being horrible in athletics

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Children of popular sportsplayer being bad in sports

zinc iris
#

it's as if vinsmoke judge was a martial artist chef as well and so on

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dragon is not a pirate

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everything was going so well until zoro being a shimotsuki happened

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because the inheritance in spirit already happened anyway with kuina being the last descendant of ryuma that then entrusts zoro with her dream
this is just a cheap wank at his character that only diminishes his struggle

boreal mist
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still can't see how it diminishes his struggle to be frank

zinc iris
boreal mist
#

Did he receive anything from his parents?

zinc iris
#

then just admit they weren't that self-made and move on instead of insist on some underdog myth as the disadvantage didn't exists anyway

boreal mist
#

If you say genes, then I'll say read my example of irl scenarios

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the sports player/athletes thing

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Zoro hasn't gained anything from the lineage, he trained himself, he sought after luffy and the goal himself

zinc iris
#

it's just so unnecessary to add this ulterior connection with the misguided idea it makes zoro cooler

boreal mist
#

It's just you being fed up with this trope and having a wrong interpretation due to it

zinc iris
boreal mist
#

Some other reason which hasn't been known until now perhaod

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too soon to jump into conclusions and compare it to something as atrocious as Naruto

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And the main reason is just being fed up with this trope, that you are jumping at that conclusion even if there isn't anything to suggest that yet

zinc iris
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well so far it's dangerously close to Neji being right even here

boreal mist
#

I stopped Naruto halfway so wouldn't know.
Also wouldn't that be not allowed in that channel

zinc iris
#

and maybe I just overestimated this story because Luffy wasn't Roger's son and that was just some luck from oda's part

boreal mist
#

Well you just jumped into conclusion

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When there isn't even one thing to suggest that, other than that this trope ends at the same place always

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It could be going in for inherited will route, as most of the One Piece theme suggest to be, and this introduction might add more depth, than destroying the story by interpreting everything in a wrong way

zinc iris
#

inherited will trumps bloodline

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or at least it used to

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until now none of the relevant charactars inherited their quest in life from their biological ancestors

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succession happened in spirit rather than blood

hardy shoal
#

I dunno, but I have the feeling Luffy awakening his fruit at the peak of kaido's fight