manga-theories

[vestal orbit]

ye makes sense

[acoustic helm]

So if this is actually true, BB was yonko capable long before,
But he needed a crew ,strong crew and before that needed strong df to do certain task with them maybe..

[pure raven]

Oda was sus

[oak plover]

Pretty sure the timeline doesn't match, but CUTTY FLAM

[supple nimbus]

Franky literally told Roger to his face that he wouldn't join his crew

[oak plover]

Oh I mustve forgot that part of the flashback

[junior cape]

Yeah bro, he may not remember it, but Franky met Roger on Water 7.

[oak plover]

Franky's bio parents are still out there, ftr. "some pirates"

Wasn't really that serious of a take, but yeah more direct evidence against it than I thought

[sick jolt]

Guys was franky in rocks

[cyan berry]

doubt franky's parents are still alive

and even if they were

what difference would it make?

remember that Franky isnt his actual name

and Cutty Flam died back in the Water 7 flashback

[sick jolt]

sorry i just remember frankys age but why did he say he hates pirates

[cyan berry]

his parents were pirates and they abandoned him

[sick jolt]

how do we know if thats true

[cyan berry]

he said so himself?

[sick jolt]

Wait what WHEN

[cyan berry]

back in the Water 7 flashback dude

[sick jolt]

did i miss that ok

[cyan berry]

okay i was wrong @sick jolt

wasnt in the water 7 flashback

chapter 967

where oden laughs at the orphan

[sick jolt]

i dont think it was normal pirates

[amber oar]

I wonder if there's something missing in translation. When it was brought to the anime, the subtitles made it sound like Oden was laughing at his own bad timing, not at Franky

[pure raven]

Little did oden know what was waiting for him back home

[cosmic fog]

Oh man will we be pissed when we find out Franky was in the Rocks Pirates crew for a while and never said anything about it

[pastel summit]

Franky was born after Rocks crew was disbanded.

[fathom matrix]

I could see the WG getting pissed off or annoyed with Robin still being around, to the point where it's the reverse of Sanji's wanted poster, where it says "dead only" like they're sick of playing "nice" all this time, and Robin's too dangerous to be around, so they're deciding it's better just to cut off any loose ends.

They might even up the bounty on her a lot, saying that this might seem difficult, but if you can kill her, you can get all of this

[mossy rune]

I'd like to see her bounty to be like a billion, they are now really close to the One Piece and if the WG wants to stop this they could up her bounty like crazy

[sinful helm]

It's kinda too late unless on laugh tale you must have a person being able too read poneglyphs

[burnt steeple]

the orphan looks like franky

[vestal orbit]

the guy next to him looks a bit like oden too, i guess sanji wasn't the only one with a doppelganger somewhere in the world

[amber oar]

"Dead only" bounties don't make sense - what's the navy going to do if someone captures Robin and shows up at the HQ with her alive? Tell'em "No, no, no, we asked her dead, kill her first and come back later"?

[vestal orbit]

i solo you

😳

[fathom matrix]

Yeah, dead only sounds too specific, that's a fair point.

[amber oar]

At most, they could drop the 30% penalty for bringing a wanted person dead

[mild kite]

But it literally says "Dead or Alive". So the Marines are fucking liars

[amber oar]

then again we never see the small letters at the bottom. Probably that states the 30% penalty

[stiff patrol]

That’s franky…

[stiff patrol]

WAIT IS THAT CONFIRMED?

[cyan berry]

Please read the chat in its entirety

[cosmic fog]

Sure

[weak arrow]

Franky wasnt even alive lmao

[stiff patrol]

All I read was his message, damn that would have been a cool plot twist doe

[cosmic fog]

He met toki before, he's from the cyborg era

[stiff patrol]

The what?

[weak arrow]

Alright that's too much meme territory for #manga-theories so no more of that

[stiff patrol]

Wait does anyone know the exact year for the rocks pirates vs garp and roger battle?

[weak arrow]

38 years ago

[stiff patrol]

Ayo, thats 1 year after shanks was born, potentially Shanks is xebecs child who roger took to be on his ship to give shanks a better life

[weak arrow]

Yes, very common theory that either blackbeard, shanks, or buggy are all some variation of xebec or celestial dragon's child

[stiff patrol]

Yh I just realized even the timing links up as well

For example in the meeting with shanks and whitebeard after water 7, whitebeard says “my scars ache when I see you, they remind me of him”, it is never explicitly stated that they came from roger which we all assumed, could they have come from xebec, who was shanks father.

And this makes sense because what if whitebeard betrayed the rox crew to help roger and garp? We all know he values family above all else and there was absolutely zero sense of family on that ship, crew mates would often be killed there by each other

And if whitebeard did do that, he would know shanks is xebecs child

And this makes sense because shanks would be born whilst whitebeard is on rocks pirates ship

And this could be a potential plotline for shanks to turn out to have been evil all along

[wary fossil]

or for him being the most free despite not being the strongest

[weak arrow]

Being the son of xebec isnt gonna make shanks evil. However, it fits the theme of not having the sins of your father, showing that Roger had personal experience with it when he said it to Garp when he asked Garp to take care of his son

Reminding me of old me though this was just with reverie information

[wary fossil]

is there a theory about the kozuki crest being a bunch of crests together

[modest skiff]

I believe the Kozuki crest represents the same group of 8 that is reflected in FMI, Alabasta, Kaido flag, BB flag, minks (I think) and I think some others. I need to write down which groups have shown the "8" symbolism

[wary fossil]

I think the kozuki crest is a continuation of it since it seems to be that dotted sun with other things compared to the fishmen and alabasta where it's just the sun. IIRC Skypeia had that symbol too

[sturdy hound]

do you mean the sun symbol thingy?

[wary fossil]

Kozuki crest looks like 3 or 4 things together. 8 ray sun/dots, the bird (crane?), a chrysanthemum flower like okiku, and the weird sort of double bone thing like Oars

I'm trying to work on some theories involving this symbol and the wg's symbols

[modest skiff]

The sun has 8 dots, similar to Kaido/BB flags having 8 bones. Skypiea had symbolism involving 8 as well, but I forgot where. Alabasta had something that depicted 8, same with fishman island. I don't remember if Mink place did. But basically there has been symbolism around a lot of groups that all involve 8. My rough'ish theory is that it was an alliance of sorts with the AK because all of the places we see 8 are somehow either not incorporated in the WG or are Alabasta, who have some other type of incomplete alliance

[wary fossil]

skypiea's was at the gate and wyper has a 8 pegged wheel as a tattoo

[modest skiff]

@wary fossil do you remember which others had the 8 symbolism?

Alabasta
Kaido
BB
FMI
Kozuki
Mink (? confirm?)

[sturdy hound]

yea yea, same thought i had as well. idk if this means 8 specific kingdoms but it's def smth significant, esp now with nika on the table. there seems to be some significance to the moon and sun in op. kozuki have the kanji for moon in the name, the moon brings back old memories that awaken sulong in minks, enel went to the moon and that's where shandians came from, sun pirates and sun god, the sun 8 symbol etc etc. and this is the reference from skypiea

is this the one from zou?

it's really similar to the alabasta one

[wary fossil]

that's alabasta iirc

alabasta, skypeia, and fishmen had dots, kaido/BB/wyper had a symbol with 8, and the kozuki-minks have it in the crest

[modest skiff]

Oh yeah, I think 8 symbolism is in the Enel cover story, but I will confirm that

[wary fossil]

I don't remember enel found 8 symbols on the moon

[modest skiff]

Somewhat related: I think the pirate flag, 2 bones crossing a skull, is the original "pirate" group, which was a group of revolutionaries of sorts, opposed to the formation of the WG. 2 bones crossing a skull is also easy to relate to 4 glyphs pointing to laugh tale. Part of me has considered that perhaps this original group of pirates aimed to protect laugh tale or established laugh tale. So I think the overall culture of pirates "fighting for freedom" comes from the fact that this original group of pirates were freedom fighters

[sturdy hound]

for what it's worth, the heart pirates have 8 in their jolly roger

[modest skiff]

Interesting, didn't notice that, thank you. Adding that to my list

I'm trying to compile all references/symbolism of 8

[sturdy hound]

the pattern on luffy's kimono had the same shape btw, just 9 dots instead of 8

[modest skiff]

Part of me wants that to be foreshadowing him being an addition to the group

[sturdy hound]

wdyt about this

neat idea

[tepid coral]

Yeah pretty neat

[wary fossil]

Gol

[tepid coral]

That's some well researched theory lol

[sturdy hound]

oh yea, duh

nah wait, it's the first one

[wary fossil]

ah yeah I see it now lol

[scarlet mirage]

Hopping on that Xebec being Shanks father theory and this 8 dots theory, would that technically mean Shanks is also a D and make up for the 8th D missing?

[weak arrow]

no cause rocks is already included

[sturdy hound]

i wonder how coincidental some of these are. the d families thing, the number of seas in the op world, even drake's belt buckle has those 8 circles lol.
something like 8 kingdoms or families allying to fight alongside/form the ancient kingdom is def more plausible than others.
there's also the concept of the dawn of the world, just like kin's speech about the raid and the first chapter literally titled romance dawn. that fits with the theme of the presumed 8 symbol being a sun

[modest skiff]

Yeah I like this. Hmmm.

[scarlet mirage]

Ah!! Oku

[modest skiff]

One thing that was interesting, I was re-watching sabaody anime, and in the anime translation, rayleigh says people who are "dauntless" wear straw hats well. In the manga translation, he says fearless. If D stands for a word/descriptor, dauntless would fit extremely well with what we have seen of all other D

In general I have been assuming D stands for dawn, but dauntless also fits well

[sturdy hound]

what ch was that

[modest skiff]

checking now

[sturdy hound]

i def agree with it standing for dawn, can imagine the kingdoms/families choosing that initial to represent the rising of the dawn

basic, but it works

[scarlet mirage]

Yo, that D standing for Dawn is a pretty good assumption! I;ve read somewhere else that they think D stands for demon, and it all depends on who is describing them.

[modest skiff]

chapter 503 @sturdy hound

In this scene, in the anime, the subtitles say "dauntless" rather than fearless. My eyes went wide when he related dauntless to the straw hat, so I quickly went to find the chapter to see if it was the same word, sadly it was not

[scarlet mirage]

Like for the people they've helped or affected positivley, a 'new dawn' us often used to describe the positive change. While for the world government these D's are changing everything a going against their beiliefs and systems. Making them 'demons' or destroyers of their era.

[modest skiff]

Yeah, I agree that the WG likely re-labeled D. One thing that is interesting about that is devil fruits. Wano does not call people who use them devil fruit users. Instead they call them magicians. It does not seem like Wano was exposed to the term "Devil" associated with fruits. Gives credit to the idea that the situation surrounding devil fruits changed at some point in time.

[sturdy hound]

hmmm, was hoping to find smth in the jp but nah

[modest skiff]

One thing that is related to this is the idea of a pirate jolly roger. The standard flag has 8 teeth, 4 points intersecting. It feels too coincidental. I remain convinced the 'standard' jolly roger had a great deal of symbolism related to the history of the world. 4 points converging on laugh tale feels obvious, but I am curious what else it may indicate. I am paranoid at one point in the story, we will find out it was symbolism of various things. Like even the eyes and nose perhaps mean something. But maybe not. A theme that has been very consistent is the idea that pirates are fighting for freedom. I really think this relates to an effort against the WG during the void century.

[sinful helm]

Idk why more and more i feel luffy will have to lose his df powers somehow before facing Imu

[modest skiff]

I think its more likely that devil fruits are the enemy of imu and it is important to defeating them

[sinful helm]

Bcs i feel he or someone other can control devils in df'w

Idk then it's just my feeling and shanks garp etc have no fruits

[wary fossil]

anyways my working theory is that the AK rose to power from moon people technology. These 8 were the first dissenters. 20 Kingdoms took control of AK (made devil fruits by stealing dissenter powers?) and crushed all the dissenters. The first 8 dissenters become the first pirates? Pirates form the first cross-species alliance with those who want to be free? (Pirates, Kozuki?, Minks, Giants (Oni?), Fishmen?) Joyboy wants to get Fishmen into alliance but this causes them to fail? Kozuki come from moon people? Wano made to allow alliance to rebuild? Alternatively, 8 moon people's powers taken?

[stiff patrol]

Not gonna happen

[wary fossil]

lots of unknowns regarding the moon, being born with powers/lineage factor, and what is possible with uranus

[zinc iris]

8 moon phases

Rocks and BB are related to the New Moon of course

[modest skiff]

You're saying the 8 were against the AK? or sympathetic to the AK?

[waxen dust]

I have been saying this for the longest time because similarly we have the Wano/Moon families correlation and ironically enough Luffy and Momo are both two peas in a pod with the obtaining the VOAT like Roger and Oden both who are within families in relation to the Moon and The D. What links them all together is that AK symbol

[sturdy hound]

hmmm, i always checked that up to different places using different terms for things bc of how their cultures evolved and nothing more, like ryuō and mantra for ex, and that's why the scabbards call their fruits/abilities "jutsu", wano being feudal japan basically is the easy answer here. You're making a really good point here, historical negationism is def smth the WG would be interested in. it also brings up the question of what other foundational lies the WG is using to confine the world. this is quite powerful, the dawn of the world isnt only freeing the salves, ending racism, and granting freedom form the celestial dragons, it's breaking free from these lies that have been the reality for people for so long.

[sturdy hound]

reminds me, i still wonder if the kanji in the names of the 5 families of wano is gonna be more significant than kurozumi being the blacksheep. if you dont know what im referring to, basically 4 of the 5 families have the kanji for moon in their name and some represent a certain time/season of the year except for the kurozmi whose name means "black coal"

did we ever learn why toki wanted to go to wano? idt we did

[waxen dust]

this is an interesting observation because you’re on to something with the 8 teeth and the four crossbones symbolisms. I can look at the standard jolly roger being on the same boat as the Empty Throne in terms of symbolism. The two eyes can represent the Good and Bad Ds, while the nose could possibly resemble “the center of the world” aka the location of the Empty Throne, since it’s stated to the exact spot of its placement within Mariejoas.

[waxen dust]

no we didn’t learn about Toki’s motives, also didn’t know about the kanji stuff with the weather....which is interesting because that means each one represents a different region in Wano and possibly a different place in the world. Idk if you heard this idea but I believe I told @modest skiff about it, that Wano is a miniature Pangea because it has primarily 6 regions similarly to how the current One Piece world has 6 main oceans (The Blues, Paradise, & NW). So maybe the D names and the Wano royal names could be telling a story of the world prior to the WG is some aspect like “the Dawn carried over all seasons of the Earth in all the kingdoms” something like that is where it seems these names have relevancy.

[zinc iris]

I'm on the idea that they are about the new moon hence the black in the name

[sturdy hound]

i really think the thing about the standard jolly roger is reading too much into things and relying on natural coincidences. just like the fibonacci series and golden ratio in the real world among many other examples. we are kinda reaching conspiracy theory territory here tbh

[modest skiff]

Relation to weather supports one of my billion Uranus theories, that the bird in the center of the kozuki crest is uranus

[sturdy hound]

the crane is just a standard japaense family crest symbol, but then again, it might mean more since wg manipulation and whatnot

[amber oar]

Ohh, I like this

[waxen dust]

I don’t think that’s really Uranus, but IF it were to be the case of Uranus then to me then it would be Oda taking influence of the Romance Dawn one shot with the Roc being captured and it’s blood being special. There’s alot to dissect from those chapters and especially given we have a mysterious egg to still uncover it can possibly go hand to hand, again idk if that’s accurate with Uranus. But I do think there is a deeper meaning to the Kozuki symbol.

[sturdy hound]

For reference, The families of Wano:

• Shimotsuki 霜月 is the eleventh moon of the lunar year (November), literally means “frost moon/month” 

• Uzuki 雨月 is the inability to see the harvest moon 秋月 because of the rain. Literally means “rain moon/month”

• Fugetsu 風月 is nature’s beauty (cool breeze and bright moon). Literally means “wind moon/month”
• Kōzuki 光月 only has the literal meaning of “light moon/month”
• Amatsuki 天月only has the literal meaning of “sky/heaven moon/month”

• Kurozumi 黒炭 is “black coal”

*kouzuki 光月 is also “light month” a measurement of distance like light years
*All families except the kurozumi have the kanji for moon 月 in their names

this might come in handy, would also save me time lol

also, this is from the wiki regarding the crane. could find more if you dig in jp history

[zinc iris]

btw fibonacci series and golden ratio have a cause in nature and it's not just random

[weary scarab]

is there a possibility to add a letter into the "Kurozumi 黒炭"
or change a letter so it becomes something moon-related word?

[sturdy hound]

no

[proud tree]

Koruzumi -> Kozuki both start with Ko, both contain a z and end with i?

[pure raven]

I'm starting to think that oda originally wanted sanji's theme to be dreams but dropped it at some point

I just watched the clip from the anime where he says something about foolish dreams

the only time I remember him bringing up dreams is when he compares mermaids to the all blue in FMI

besides, how many times has sanji mentioned the all blue after he entered the grand line? I can only recall that one time, which is post time skip

[modest skiff]

What is there to really say? "Still haven't found the all blue". It is still his dream, it just doesn't come up often the same way Zoro's does

[pure raven]

or luffy's and usopp's

it doesn't even have to be about his dream in particular tbh he could just comment on other people's dreams I guess

[nimble hinge]

None of them really bring up their own dreams.

[pure raven]

they could just to let sanji have that moment

characters in general, not just SHs

[sinful helm]

when did Nami mention her dream?

last time when did Brook

[pure raven]

why did my image get removed

[modest skiff]

Let's move the dream discussion to the manga channels since it isn't theory related

[pure raven]

the theory is that oda changed sanji's character I guess

[weak arrow]

Because it did not relate to a theory in any way

[foggy gulch]

Next bounty meme: Zeus will have a higher bounty then chopper

[pastel summit]

Yeah uh, none of them except Luffy even really talk about their own dreams.

[pure raven]

I am honestly glad they don't

I don't want to read each SH to be shouting their dreams every few chps or so

[pure raven]

it did lol

[amber oar]

It's Kurozumi

[brisk kayak]

lmao

[midnight pendant]

ak??

[bitter kraken]

I think he means ancient kingdom

[grand walrus]

I think I have a weird guess as to the nature of devil fruits
we know that SAD is partly made of a mixture of a bunch of animal DNA
I think the devil fruits are inherited will
smiles carry the inherited will of animals, and the devil fruits are the inherited will of a land that was killed
Basically my idea is there was some tragedy, and the fruits sprang up as a sort of curse or a remembrance of the lost souls
including souls of animals, of ice, time, whatever
they sprang from a horrible thing that happened
what do you guys think?

another possibility is kind of like dressrosa. you know how in dressrosa people were turned into toys. maybe someone can turn people into fruits????

[timid oxide]

Jojo reference

[grand walrus]

i never watched jojo so I don't underSTAND this

[modest skiff]

Since we ask people don’t make other series comparisons, we can just leave it at that

[pure raven]

I think this theory already got debunked....

The anime alluded to zoro having conquerors in wano, if anything it confirms that he has conquerors haki especially knowing what Kaido said

and if you consider his future fight with mihawk. Who likely has conquerors haki because that would be the only way you fight shanks.
Zoro would also need conquerors haki to be able to properly fight mihawk seriously

TLDR: this theory is bias and is made only because it sounds more intriguing. Zoro has conquerors haki, he would have to have it to even be the greatest swordsman

basically fighting yonko level characters without CoC, is like fighting logia's without haki

if zoro is gonna surpass mihawk's rival one day(shanks) he will need to have CoC

[bitter kraken]

Shanks is a one armed man now, it seems like Mihawk dosnt even take him seriously anymore so prolly dosnt even consider him a rival as if he ever was. Also the anime is not manga and it was retarded in how it showed zoro using coc. If zoro has CoC he dosnt know it

And also kaido is an idiot lol

[pure raven]

the anime alluding to something as big as that would align perfectly with what Kaido said, Oda has dinner with Toei and VA every year so for him to allow them to change something that big like giving zoro conquerors haki out of random coincidence wouldn't make sense . They would need his permission. Mihawk not taking shanks seriously doesn't take away from the fact that he isn't shanks rival stated by the vivre card

it was retarded in how it showed zoro using coc. If zoro has CoC he dosnt know it

you know luffy used conqueros haki unconsciously multiple times right? it was retarded in how it showed zoro using coc. If zoro has CoC he dosnt know it

[bitter kraken]

The anime didn’t allude to it, the anime showed zoro clearly using CoC and he seemed to know what he was doing I might be wrong but the first time luffy used coc was when he knocked out the bull right? And he was dumbfounded as to what happened. When zoro used CoC in the anime, the only ones who were like woah wtf happened were kaidos peeps so in the manga zoro isn’t confirmed to have CoC yet to me

[pure raven]

you know we never seen Kidd use conquerors haki BUT it's not confirmed! so is Kaido just lying

[grizzled fog]

None of this actually debunks anything properly, not until it’s actually confirmed he has coc lol. A lot of this is just head canon, you don’t need conqueror’s haki to fight Mihawk, we don’t even know if Mihawk has coc. The anime scene doesn’t confirm anything, it cannot.

[neat tinsel]

the anime scene reaffirms what some people may have not fully believed at first

Zoro has conquerors haki, it was literally said in the chapter. I'm sorry, but this is a really dumb thing to argue against

[pure raven]

it's not really head-cannon it's just a logical deduction. you don't need conqueror's haki to fight Mihawk. You DO however need conqueror's haki to fight him seriously. Which Zoro would need if he hopes to fight him seriously and defeat him. Or else his haki/will would overwhelm him overall.
Mihawk has conquerors haki because shanks has conquerors haki. There 2 rivals who fought on equal footing in which Whitebeard commented on their duel as legendary. If only shanks had conquerors haki the fight would of been more one sided. But it wasn't.
ill agree the anime doesn't outright confirm it but it does show something so obvious which would need Oda's consent

[grizzled fog]

If you really want to use a non canon screen that doesn’t actually make sense as confirmation that he has coc, go ahead. But I certainly wouldn’t use it to “debunk” or confirm anything

[neat tinsel]

I just don't get why you would be arguing against this?? Are you that desperate to deny Zoro

[pure raven]

it's just super obvious like how they allude to future events in the openings

[grizzled fog]

No one in this chat is actually arguing that zoro doesn’t have conqueror’s haki as far as I can see.

[neat tinsel]

are you not? my b

[grizzled fog]

There’s two assumptions that have to be made to even get to the point that zoro would need
conqueror’s haki to beat Mihawk.

1. Assuming that Mihawk has coc in the first place
2. Even if he has conqueror’s haki, that absolutely does not mean he is capable of coating it.
   Aaand even then you still don’t technically need conqueror’s haki to beat someone else that uses it.

[grizzled fog]

I am not. I’m arguing against using the evidence we currently have, albeit sufficient to say he very likely has conqueror’s haki, to say it is absolutely confirmed that he possesses it. And using the anime as confirmation on top of that

[neat tinsel]

ah ok fairs. I think the needing coc to fight vs Mihawk is a pretty weak point tbh. However, using the anime as verification should be valid. Toei has foreknowledge on events and direct communication with Oda. It makes absolutely no sense for them to animate this scene if they aren't sure Zoro has coc.

[pure raven]

Aaand even then you still don’t technically need conqueror’s haki to beat someone else that uses it.

In the way Sword fights are conducted in One Piece with top tiers like Roger and Whitebeard. I would say it's a necessity to have Conquerors haki, if zoro is capable of coating he would also as well. It wouldn't make sense otherwise to have mihawk as the goal and have him not know what coating is.
This is as obvious as knowing that Kaido would have Conquerors haki prior to us seeing him fight and knock luffy out. You don't get the title as the world's strongest creature without using a common tool to utilize strength. Mihawk title as World's strongest Swordsmen makes him a conqueror of the sword. He would have conquerors haki.

[grizzled fog]

It is definitely not a literal requirement to have the same technique as someone to beat them, it helps sure, but it’s simply not a necessity. Just like how luffy didn’t need haki to beat two haki users pre timeskip (boa sisters). Are you calling conqueror’s haki coating a common tool? There’s literally only like 5 confirmed users atm, not counting shanks. Sure Mihawk could have conqueror’s haki, there’s quite a good chance he does, but he’s mot guaranteed by any means. And he’s never been called a “conqueror of the sword”, making up that phrase for him to make coc look for likely is weird, you could do that for just about anybody. You could call chopper the conqueror of diseases

[pure raven]

Well Luffy and Boa sisters is different. In the context of how I am saying it; it's more of a necessity for a counter attacks. Like how Luffy would need haki to even touch Kizaru or aokiji. A serious sword fight with Mihawk where conquerors haki will be used just doesn't make sense for Zoro to not use it, especially considering conquerors haki would add to the strenght of their attacks and the only way to fight back would be able to be able to counter at the same level.
when I said conquerors of sword I was referring to him conquering all swordsmen being at the pinnacle which he did do. That was just a little nickname I gave him which wouldn't really take from the fact he's the strongest swordsman. Like how we can say that Kaido is the conqueror of beast because he's the king of beast. It's just a language bias honestly, because not even all the translations from Japanese from English is word for word. Mihawk has conquerors because 1. title, and 2 shanks rival who he fought equally with.

but anyways gonna agree to disagree going to sleep, if you reply ill respond later

[polar bison]

oda is the type of writer that is never going to necessitate a power like CoCting to be a prerequisite for victory against another CoCting user

[grizzled fog]

alright, agree to disagree

[polar bison]

blackbeard will likely be the strongest opponent luffy faces by EoS, and he doesn’t even have conquerors, as far as we know

[eternal locust]

why didn't any of the navy officers use conquerer's haki against the pirates in the war?

[grizzled fog]

Sengoku is the only marine to have have confirmed conqueror’s haki, as for why he didn’t use it. Maybe he couldn’t control it well enough not to knock out his own forces

[eternal locust]

kong

[grizzled fog]

Kong wasn’t at Marineford and has never been stated to have conqueror’s haki

[polar bison]

also sengoku barely fought

so him not using it isnt too bizarre

[neat marten]

Theory on Luffy’s awakening

Don’t take my word for it but i think Luffy would be able to completely shape body parts into objects and weapons

It’s an op ability and potentially comedic depending on how oda portrays

Anyways having this ability would make his Arsenal a lot more versatile and it makes him an unpredictable enemy (not that he isnt one already)

[faint sparrow]

luffy doesnt use weapons

[pure raven]

It would be cool af to see him mold his arm into a hammer and bonk someone really hard

[solid badger]

Horny jailer

He’s only used a staff

But that’s not really useful anymore for him

[kindred crow]

He used the Nidai didn’t he?

Like not seriously use it but wielded it

[silent dock]

"Toei has foreknowledge on events and direct communication with Oda. It makes absolutely no sense for them to animate this scene if they aren't sure Zoro has coc." - I feel like this is the best point made in the whole thread im pretty confused why its going on 4 so long like anime was actually lame of how obvious it was.

[supple nimbus]

Also if I'm not wrong one of the main points in the zoro doesn't have CoC theory was that Kaido's word was unreliable, about how the scabbards were able to pain him even tho they don't have CoC, I'm sure its a BigMom-Mother Carmel type situation, where when something that can trigger you momentarily pauses your will in a way (haki is willpower) making them susceptible to damage. While this doesn't necceraily prove that Zoro has CoC, it still leaves the room open for him to have it.

[ashen plaza]

Haki Hypothesis..I actually read this idea from a fanfic..the mc only knows conqueror's haki...

Basically, you would add Armament haki to your conqueror's haki! The opposite of Armament haki>Conqueror's..

Of course,this should be harder than the latter case

[junior cape]

Hawkins was kinda destined to fail. Dude was always so reliant on "fate" pulling the strings that he never really tried to influence events himself. As such, when Killer rocked up and said "I dont care for fate, I forge my own path", Hawkins got cocky, rightfully so, and then got sloppy with his arm.

Now hes either dead or dying, and he knows there'll be a major upset in the VERY immediate future. But he wont be there to watch it.

As the saying goes, Destruction begets Creation.

Now, had Hawkins fought Kaifo instead, things would've been different. I imagine that he'd be in udon as well, and get rescued at the same time. Then the raid would've had even greater success thanks to the boons of his cards.

[deep olive]

what’s the new theories !

[rustic granite]

My prediction is that within atleast 5 chapters,we'll see Apoo and Fukurokuju going down

[supple anchor]

yeah and then king and queen a bit after that. sanji will use his suit once he realizes that he still has a heart

[jade solar]

It would be beautiful if Usopp reconfort sanji as sanji reconfort Usopp/sogeking at enies lobby

[halcyon tusk]

meanwhile on the Rooftop as 1029 is happening:
Luffy: blank eyes K’O’d

Kaido laughs

Momonosuke(elsewhere): …. crying

[shrewd tusk]

Theres no explanation why luffy was thrown out the onigashima right? Why kaido bluffing luffy about his gomu gomu no thing... I think luffy tried gear 4 with coc not with normal haki... But it unfortunately failed..maybe thats how he gonna defeat kaido

[shrewd tusk]

Luffy will transform into a rubber sword that can cyt anything and be wielded by zoro then turn it into a black blade then there we have black luffy

[edgy atlas]

oooh

[sinful helm]

i see queen going down in 2 chapters max

king in 4 and kaido in 10 max

[supple anchor]

idk i still think kaido gets away. i think the marines show up during the luffy fight and he retreats

[sinful helm]

Doubtful he isnt a person that retreats

[teal nymph]

i don't know how i feel about sanji getting buffs left and right .

now that hawkins is dead/ dying /ko'ed will killer join kidd and law to fight bm ?

[shrewd tusk]

I guess oda's speeding up a bit on their character development, and making them in top form

[prime bluff]

Why Spoilers channel is gone

[thick sky]

No spoilers are there.
The scans that the server accepts is already out

[acoustic gale]

Imagine this final war starts at wano

[ashen plaza]

I've been reading fanfics this last few days..Here are the interesting ideas I've read:

1. Blackbeard : He ate the Kraken fruit,that's why he could eat 2 other DF
   (Yeah,not that outrageous)
2. Jewelry Bonnie and Ace : Bonnie used his DF fruit to make Ace stay as a baby in his mother's womb
   Note: making younger is not equal to Time)
3. Xebec was a Celestial Dragon,and Shanks is the son of Xebec..

Let me explain..We dont know how old Xebec was ,and Shanks being his son might be possible
Look: if Xebec was a master of Haki and he ate the Yami Yami no mi
,the Shanks vs Blackbeard match up is more interesting!!

Oh ,remember Shanks and Ace??

Isn't Shanks joining Roger similar to Ace joining Whitebeard??hmmmm

Shanks: Inherited Xebec's blood
Teach: Carries Xebec's ambition!
Plus!
Shanks: Alteast, he appears to be pure Human
Vs..
Teach: Two DF or 3!

Right,that's also why Shanks could because he carries the blood of Xebec,the genius of Celestial Dragon!! communicate to the 5elders
Omg

[wide lagoon]

Bruh has anyone read that reddit theory that how BB obtained WB df

[tranquil edge]

no? I'm curious now send

[weary arch]

Bruh it’s ridiculous to think shanks is xebec’s son or xebec is a celestial dragon lmaoooooo literally no official info leads there

[severe edge]

pretty sure xebec having yami yami no mi and he being a celestial dragon are all head-cannon

also about zoro it's quite easy to tell that oda gave zoro coc cause zoro's ambition is to stand above others and there's a good reason as to why mihawk might not have coc cause his ambition isn't to stand above others or be better than everyone else rather he may even despise this position of his cause he now doesn't have many strong people he can fight it's never been implied that mihawk ever wanted to be the strongest swordsman all he did was fight stronger and stronger opponents till there was no one stronger than him left and he now lives with an unfulfilled ambition and thus looks forward to fighting zoro as he is the most promising candidate capable of eventually equalizing him in a serious fight

[rustic granite]

Credible,except that the 2nd one is kinda not

[ashen plaza]

4. Roger and Garp isnt the only one who fought Xebec...Basically ,Xebec got betrayed by his own crew..yeah,no evidence or so,but if Xebec is really that strong I dont see why not + Xebec's crew is known for kjllings anyway..Perhaps, Xebec is the representation of Asura or ashura?His power got out of control...Yeah,no evidence or so :)

[supple anchor]

he did retreat from marineford after running into shanks

[severe edge]

wasn't said that he retreated on his own accord

could be that shanks forced him to retreat or maybe even forcefully make him unable to reach marineford

[supple anchor]

well i dont think a fight between shanks and kaido would end quickly, and kaido can fly and go anywhere he wants to go really. my point was that kaido has retreated before, hes also been captured by the marines and escaped before. i don't think its unreasonable that he would make a strategic retreat, especially when its his base thats been attacked

[severe edge]

fair

[rustic granite]

Whitebeard might have formed a temporary alliance with Roger and Garp

[distant heron]

Hawkins' Tarot cards that appear in the last doublespread of the newest chapter are Ace of Swords, Power, 7 of Wands, Judgement, 9 of Swords, The Sun and 10 of Coins. I think Oda chose these cards on purpose, particularly because the 9 of Swords is an obvious reference to the Scabbards and the Sun is a reference to the Dawn. Also, the Narrator made it obvious that The Tower had a larger symbolic meaning apart from spelling out Hawkins' defeat. The 10 of Coins is also an especially peculiar choice to include because it's very hard to figure out, Oda could not possibly paint it in a clear manner. However I think that the 10 of Coins symbolizes Luffy's nakama.

[snow grove]

Don't imagine giving bigmom another bluff she was humiliated many times kidd is feeling him self and being kooky he needs to know his place

[sacred hawk]

Honestly, it seems like Big Mom really might go down in Wano

https://cdn.onepiecechapters.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/tcbop_1029_v3_014.png

[bitter kraken]

I mean BM dosnt even look damaged at all lol

[sacred hawk]

I just thought of something. What if KO-ing Hawkins causes the damage to come back to him? Which is why Kid can get back up so easily?

[viral heron]

Ok guys dont know if someone thought same as me but here is my bounty prediction post wano share your thoughts .
Luffy- 2,830bil
Zoro- 1,660bil or 1,6bil
Sanji- 1,630bil or 1,594bil
Jinbei- 876mil just multiplying his bounty
Franky- 440mil or 940mil just adding zero to old bounties plus there could be YONKO crew boost idk like if u in yonko crew u get like few mil bounty boost
Brook- 330mil or 890mil same like franky
Robin- 790mil old bounty plus 0 or 1,2bil because she is now bigger threat to WG
Usopp- 400mil just double of his current bounty
Nami- 660mil or 160mil
Chopper- 100 mil rooting for him xD
plus there could be YONKO crew boost idk like if u are in yonko crew u get like few mil bounty boost
so what do you think ?

[honest igloo]

Now that we know CP-0 wants Robin, I think her bounty will go up to at least a billion, and I’d place Luffy at at least 3-4 billion

The rest look about right

[grizzled fog]

Luffy is definitely too low, 3bil at the minimum for him imo and Iirc he always gets cleaner jnumbers than something like 2830. Zoro and Sanji seem a bit too high as well. Jinbe’s seems alright. I lean towards the lower options for Franky, Brook and robin, nami also.

[viral heron]

I made his bounty from adding up his old bounties and if u double it after you get higher bounty than roger

[honest igloo]

Right out of wano he won’t have a higher bounty than roger or WB, but it’ll be at least on par (not equal) with Kaido and BM. I think high 3Billions or low 4 billions for Luffy

[viral heron]

oh and I forgot that Robins poster will be changing to only alive

[honest igloo]

Definitely

[honest igloo]

Luffy does get cleaner, more rounded numbers, like 300 million, 400 million, etc

[sacred hawk]

What if the tower card is the "surpass your limits" cars?

[rugged cove]

wait why

i'm confused

[viral heron]

Symbolism. The Tower is sometimes interpreted as meaning danger, crisis, sudden change, destruction, higher learning, and liberation. In the Rider–Waite deck, the top of The Tower is a crown, which symbolizes materialistic thought being bought cheap. thats what google says xD

[viral heron]

well in 1128ch Rob Lucci says to "capture Nico robin alive!"

[rugged cove]

ohh.............

[sacred hawk]

Yeah, but all of his tarot cards have actual in-battle effects. From the narration, it feels like "turn the tables" card

[viral heron]

Does they I thought that he could read % with some of them 🤔

or it was just his random card that said like u fucked xD

[sand sail]

There's no part of the narration that suggests it's anything but ruin lol

The Tower card, as you can see from the picture even in the manga, is like the sudden and jarring end of one cycle and change to another

[viral heron]

ok will hawkins survive u know he out with his arm cut off will he bleed out ..

[sand sail]

That's why it's being blasted away

[pine delta]

Law and kidd straight up only have to stall

We still don’t know how Hawkins power works, I can see him joining the fight with a power up he spends on the alliance before passing out. I don’t see big mom taking too much damage here without kidd getting a massive power up

[patent summit]

I always have found hawkins' his card powers cool and unique

[tardy bolt]

Love how we progressing to the end. Law and Kid vs Big mom might take about 4 chapters, then we go to zoro vs king and sanji vs queen. I think that zoro will do something so horrifying that it solidifies him as the "Asura" a monster whose blade is never satisfied.(Maybe it'll happen in the final war) but nonetheless he will do something insane. Sanji will have a bit of self reflection, he will begin to accept what he is and that he is not like the others. Luffy and Kaido will be an epic fight that will end in the streets of the flower capital. For all the citizens to see. Just another theory I have

In the zoro fight i think he will "talk" to the blades and one of them will change. When sanji has his relfection his mother will pop up in his head and he will always be the caring boy who cooked for his mother when she was in bed

Also i just want to see luffy and kaido throw straight hands till one is dead

[hollow grotto]

That coldness Queen and Sanji brought up is possibly the reason why the Vinsmokes gave him the Raid Suit, to make Sanji into one of them in the same way they are. Cold and unfeeling, but powerful so he wouldn't 'fall behind'. A huge theme in Wano has been identity and coming to terms with who you are, and Sanji, Momonosuke and Yamato are some of the more obvious examples, but there are others as well such as Kiku, who identify themselves as a girl despite being biologically male and Zoro, whose identity is heavily implied to be of Shimotsuki lineage, so it would be interesting if Sanji lost all sense of himself and became a cold, unfeeling 'monster', but regained that emotion somehow either through his passion, the SHs or even Nami and Robin. There's a lot going on in Wano right now so I'm not sure if Oda would go the extra mile to add a layer like that in but he's been putting focus on it even in the middle of the war and it would be fun to see, guess we'll just have to wait and see what Oda plans to do.

[mortal field]

Dawg this was the same thing i was thinking about before, i really hope that happens

[viral heron]

Maybe wado will awaken somehow

[last halo]

Luffy should be above 3 billion
Zoro and Sanji will probably have the same bounty and it should be slightly above King's. 1,4 billion
Jinbei seems fair
I think Usopp's bounty will stay behind, going at most 100 million up, and the remaining straw hats will be between his and Jinbei's. Nami being the lowest and Robin being the highest. Chopper either remains the gag bounty or gets one on Usopp's level. Yamato should be 1 billion, if she joins.

[topaz marten]

i feel like luffy should have at least 4 billion if he beats kaido

[simple bear]

me thinking shed betray kaido and backstab him/escape :

[radiant blade]

This panel happened 3 years ago, i just want to know who it was

[waxen dust]

We don’t yet, but my best guess it’s in reference to Rocks since this is the same chapter the name was introduced. Plus of all the possible connections between Shanks and Xebec

[near osprey]

So been rewatching and currently on Wano and just went over the Gecko Moria scene where he shows up to BBs Island which I entirely forgot about.

and it's to deal with BB getting Moria's Devil Fruit and the odds of him reviving Xebec's corpse doesn't seem slim

Considering the name of his ship he has a connection with Xebec and assuming he was looking to bait Moria in just to steal his power (Which is probably why Oda revived Moria to begin with just to make it easier for BB to obtain the fruit)

[viral heron]

xebec with kaidos shadow

[minor juniper]

It doesn't sound bad, but im afraid of another Kishimoto situation

The part i never understood and makes me doubt about the resurrection is the memory of the zombies, if Xebec doesn't remember at all his time baing alive, he'll be just another Oars Luffy. Its a manga that heavily relies in the narration of past events, if Xevec don't have anything to offer, is just a filler of pages

[amber oar]

Calm down, Oda is not Kishimoto

[pure raven]

Like blackbeard?

He's the only thing that's resembles a parallel to rocks

[pure raven]

It's most likely kidd though, this theory explains it the best
#manga-theories message

[lone dew]

Luffy, Weevil or BB

[rustic dove]

will of d means will of dreams

[mint prairie]

Are the cards shown in the last spread known? I can only recognise the Ace of Spades, Strength, and the obvious Death and Tower.

[pure raven]

if you take luffy's increases throughout one piece they form a pattern that seems to suggest this time it's gonna be 5 billion

just the number ratios between the various increases

after the time skip he's been getting the same increases as he did pre-time skip but in the opposite order

1,500,000,000
500,000,000
400,000,000
300,000,000
100,000,000
30,000,000

it's times 3.33, then times 3, then +100kk pre ts

post ts it's +100kk, then times 3, it's only missing times 3.33 to make that nice, clean 5 billion

and the last increase would just be gomu gomu or whatever in numbers

what do you think?

[pure raven]

this is further supported by the fact that he's gonna beat kaido, who's 4.6 billion

[mint prairie]

Just from Bounty history:
East Blue: 30M ー Defeat of Buggy (15M), Don Krieg (17M), and Arlong (20M). 1x.
Alabasta: 100M ー Defeat of Crocodile (81M) and Baroque Works. 3.33x
Enies Lobby: 300M ー Defeat of CP9, raid on Enies Lobby, war declaration against WG. 3x.
3D2Y: 400M ー Defeat of Gecko Moria (320M), assault on a CD, raiding Marineford (twice), confirmed blood relationship with Dragon. 1.33x.
Dressrosa: 500M ー Defeat of Doflamingo (340M), alliance with another Supernova (also Law is held responsible for Rocky Port). 1.25x.
Whole Cake Island: 1,500M ー Defeat of Cracker (860M) and Katakuri (1,057M), raid on WCI, creation of the Grand Fleet, confirmed ties with Sabo, 3x.

[pure raven]

I told you, I'm considering those as additions

if you look at them as +100kk it's a pattern

[mint prairie]

It has been a bit irregular, and there's this whole patch between Enies Lobby and WCI where it didn't increase much despite there being a lot of confirmed action from the Straw Hats.

[pure raven]

why, he's beating kaido after all

yes he got help but he's still beating him mostly by himself right now

and why not?

actually, whitebeard would have a higher bounty, by 44kk or something

I mean, if you beat a yonko you get a yonko level bounty imo

imo whitebeard's bounty has that 44kk on purpose so that luffy doesn't surpass him yet

okay, I worded that badly, still, if you beat someone you get a bounty in that range, that's all

uh, well, I do

[sturdy lantern]

I have a feeling Luffy is going to go to 2.2 Billion, and Blackbeard is going to do something big and push 3 billion

[pure raven]

blackbeard is definitely not getting a 0.8 B increase, next time luffy sees him he'll have a +5 Billion bounty imo

[sturdy lantern]

yeah, I know that Blackbeard is going to rake in guap by the end of the series, I'm talking just after Wano

[pure raven]

I doubt we'll have so much time that bb gets two increases, but we'll see I guess

[sturdy lantern]

Blackbeard's bounty increasing steadily would be neat instead of just a big boost at the end of the series

[distant heron]

The cards are Ace of Spades, Strength, Judgement, 9 of Swords, 7 of Wands, 10 of Coins and The Sun. I don't think the choice of cards is a coincidence.

[mint prairie]

Do you have proof for that? Some cards are a bit harder to pick up.

[distant heron]

I'm a Tarot reader lol

[pure raven]

right now I can't be bothered to look up the proportions between luffy's old bounties and the opponents he's faced but if we go by patterns he could just as well get a 3.33 increase cause that's the one that has the most precedent

[mint prairie]

What's this one?

[pure raven]

I go by: pretty straightforward pattern, + beating kaido (4.6B), + whitebeard being just above 5 billion

[distant heron]

It's The Sun

You can faintly make out the child holding the banner

[mint prairie]

Oh, I see. Thanks!

[wet perch]

Final bounty will probably be 5.656 billion. Go mu go mu.

[distant heron]

It obviously symbolizes The Dawn imo

[pure raven]

yeah pretty much everyone agrees on that

the one hole in my theory is that there isn't much that luffy could do to warrant a small jump from 5B to 5.656B

[near osprey]

Luffy gonna jump above whatever Kaido's Bounty is at

[pure raven]

it's possible that he's not gonna get an increase at all for reaching laugh tale, instead he might get one for forming an alliance with other pirates, for meeting shanks or doing some other relatively minor thing

[near osprey]

He already jumped to 1.5B after he beat Katakuri why would he be valued lower than Kaido when he's going to be the one who takes him down

[pure raven]

maybe once he reaches laugh tale the world government won't have time to give him a new bounty before luffy reaches them idk

[near osprey]

Plus he'll have Three Road Poneglyphs

[visual merlin]

cuz he did more than beat Kata to get 1.5, and he got lots of help to fight kaido, and kaido's bounty probably accounts for more than his individual strength anyway

[near osprey]

He's the biggest threat to the WG

[pure raven]

anyway I agree that's a hole in my theory, but I value the pre/post ts pattern more

[near osprey]

They'll place his bounty to at least 4.8 Billion if not 5

[mint prairie]

I think you are jumping the gun on there being a final bounty to begin with. I can see two bounty increases: one after Wano, and one after BB. I expect the second one to be 5.6B. After that I expect the final war and following events to result in a complete shake-up of the world order, possibly the eradication of the World Government, thus making it impossible to attain a greater Bounty afterwards. Luffy would sit at 5.6B with the highest recorded Bounty right before Bounties disappear from the world.

[pure raven]

not if the world government is occupied with the revos at the same time or if he gets to them quickly enough that they don't have time to give him an increase

imo it's possible that just getting a higher bounty than the legendary pirate Gold Roger might be enough after he reaches laugh tale, even if the increase is small in absolute terms

[near osprey]

There's also the fact Sakazuki has a major problem with the SH

We're also already going to be seeing Zoro and Sanji exceed for 1B

[mint prairie]

If the system on charge of calculating, publishing, and paying out Bounties disappears, is there a reason for Bounties to still exist outside of a history record?

[near osprey]

Kidd will have the biggest leap after beating BM Law as well but I think at most Law will sit at 1.5

Kidds sitting at under 1B right now yeah?

[wet perch]

Oda could surprise us all and 5.656 NOT be Luffy’s final bounty

[near osprey]

He takes down BM he'll exceed to at least 3B maybe even more considering where she's valued at.

[visual merlin]

he's sitting at 470 million

[pure raven]

literally 0% chance that this happens lmao

[near osprey]

Cause Bounties tend to also reflect their power level persay

[visual merlin]

why would kid be way stronger than law then

[near osprey]

Cause Kidd is set up to be Luffy's equal

[visual merlin]

not really, not anymore than law is at least

[mint prairie]

Yeah, they might still keep chasing them, and there also might be no Bounties afterwards. The Pirate King title Luffy seeks is that of the most free person on the world, and that might also be only achievable by achieving freedom for everyone, so I firmly believe the World Government as a whole will be destroyed in order for new organisations to arise, making way for free countries and freedom on the sea. If anyone can freely sail afterwards, I see little to no reason to ever increase Bounties to anything comparable to Roger/Luffy.

[near osprey]

Nah I'm rewatching Wano right now it is very clear to me with how they interact with one another they will always be equal in strength

[pure raven]

kidd is setup to be more important than law

[near osprey]

Law is also a support character

[visual merlin]

Law interacts the same way when the three of them are together. And there's no "always be equal" since even if he gets to luffy's strength now, this'll be the first time they're equals

[near osprey]

Yes that was made evident with Luffy and Law vs Doflamingo and now Kidd and Law vs Big Mom

[mint prairie]

While I agree there might still be Bounties afterwards, I don't think there will be a "final bounty" for Luffy, just one high enough to compete with or surpass the Pirate King before the bounty system gets either removed or reworked.

[visual merlin]

?

[pure raven]

kinda agree

[near osprey]

He plays a support role when he's paired with them.

[visual merlin]

Yea, he's not gonna outshine luffy

and he hasn't been playing any sort of support in wano

[near osprey]

Luffy and Kidd are power characters while Law plays a more support role.

[visual merlin]

especially in the BM fight, considering we haven't seen anything from it

[near osprey]

He enhances Kidd and Luffy

[visual merlin]

people like to say law is support, when he doesn't fight that way

sure, he could be great for support, but he hasn't been fighting like that

[near osprey]

He does in a 2v1 much like Brook did with Robin this arc

[visual merlin]

when was he acting as support this arc

[near osprey]

We haven't gotten much of his fight with Big Mom yet but I imagine he's doing that whole swap thing he does with Luffy

[visual merlin]

but he barely does that either, he did that one time in dressrosa

and helped zoro one time this arc

What he was doing on the roof was mostly attacking too

and now we've seen no sort of support role from him against BM

[pure raven]

anyway, you really spent all that time typing that when it was clear I wasn't using all of them as multiplications, wtf

[near osprey]

There's nothing wrong with Law being more support he has the most useful fruit ever and he uses it tactfully.

[visual merlin]

again, people like to say that because he could be good support, but he isn't

you're not basing off of what we've seen

[versed hamlet]

Law isn't support lol

[visual merlin]

you're basing off of the cool idea that he could be a good support

[near osprey]

His primary usage as a character is as support

[visual merlin]

alright, so how come you can't explain when he's been playing support this arc?

[versed hamlet]

No? since when has that been the case

[visual merlin]

You're not backing any of this up

Again, he could be good support, but he just hasn't been acting as support

[near osprey]

Okay let's look at how Law has behaved through out majority of OP

[versed hamlet]

Ah yes blu this is very support like

[visual merlin]

can you explain to me when in this arc he acted as a support character

[mint prairie]

I often review what I'm writing, so I spend a lot of time writing too little text. I was aiming to discuss something, but you seemed to be too steady in just one standpoint that I figured I might just approach from my own perspective without either proving or disproving my points. In other words, I just decided to drop food for thought instead of actually debating.

[visual merlin]

Yea we've seen how he fought in the 5v2

he's attacking just as much as the others

[versed hamlet]

This is so support like right?

[visual merlin]

technically more, if we go as far as counting (outside of luffy)

[versed hamlet]

He's Definitely supporting right now 👍

[near osprey]

Okay I think you're missing what I'm saying

[versed hamlet]

You think that he WOULD be a cool support, when thats all headcanon but we've barely seen him be in a support role

[pure raven]

you didn't approach from your own perspective, you just listed a bunch of facts without any particular purpose

[visual merlin]

aren't you saying he's a support fighter/character?

[pure raven]

it wasn't a response nor a theory

[grizzled fog]

Law has immense potential as a support fighter, but he’s clearly been fighting as a regular fighter like everyone else in wano. He occasionally teleports people, not unlike how zoro jumped in to save luffy on the roof once or twice, and yet people aren’t calling zoro a support.

[near osprey]

He is a support fighter character, he uses his ability frequently to assist others through out the series. He doesn't jump into fights headlong like Luffy or Kidd would. He is the 3rd Member of the Big Three of the WG and he is destined to be someone who supports Kidd or Luffy. Like that is very evident already with Luffy and Law's relationship despite it being an Alliance Luffy tends to be the one who calls the shots. Yes Law is in the driver seat sometimes but for the most part Luffy is running the show.

[versed hamlet]

He's more analytical but he is definitely not a support lol

[visual merlin]

Okay, so can you support that though

[near osprey]

Because of the sheer fact his power saps his energy and he doesn't have an endless supply

[grizzled fog]

No one has an endless supply

[visual merlin]

luffy runs the show yes, because he's the main character

[versed hamlet]

Can you just show me when he's been a support tho

Dos panelos por favor

[visual merlin]

Like for the 6th time, Law has powers that anyone can recognize would be great for support

[near osprey]

He makes the plans and acts as the Tactician most of the time.

[visual merlin]

however, he doesn't use them in that way, usually

[versed hamlet]

That doesnt make you a support though?

[visual merlin]

making plans or being smart isn't making him a support when he's attacking just as much as the others in a fight

[near osprey]

Tacticians naturally are support characters

[grizzled fog]

Making plans doesn’t make him a support, especially when his part in the plans is usually just attacking like everyone else

[visual merlin]

no, being smart doesn't mean you aren't fighting just as much

it just means you can think of a plan, not everything is like those games

people can have more than 1 quality

[oblique onyx]

Being a tactician doesn’t make him “weaker” than Luffy: they just have different strengths

[versed hamlet]

That makes killer a support then blu, going off your logic, would you call him a support? Exactly.

[visual merlin]

We haven't seen law frequently fight like a support, we've seen him fight just as much as the others

yea that was the funny part too, pretty sure Vemqi somewhat mentioned it

but zoro acted as more of a support in that fight than law did

[near osprey]

Sure everyone steps up in a 1v1 and yeah he has aggressive attacks but he naturally plays distance as well for most of the fight until he's forced to be in a melee

[visual merlin]

without exaggeration

[visual merlin]

No, he fights up close just like everyone else. We see it in most, if not all of his fights

[near osprey]

But he also often plays in a backup role as well.

[visual merlin]

Pretty sure we've just about never seen him do that

he's never acted solely, or majorly for support or backup

in the doffy fight he wasn't the main power, but he also wasn't just sitting around helping out luffy

In the 5v2, same thing

You don't have any actual instances to back these claims up, thats the problem here

[sand sail]

Law actually frequently goes into melees in his fights

He's a trained sword fighter after all

[visual merlin]

I mean, even this exact chapter

first thing he does is teleport right in Big mom's face

and smack her with countershock

[sand sail]

Yeh, like half of his commonly used techniques require him being in melee range

Countershock, Injection Shot, Gamma Knife

[versed hamlet]

Blu can you like show one panel that proves your point

[grizzled fog]

Law landed four attacks on the emperor’s on the roof, he teleported people in 4 different instances iirc. He definitely wasn’t mainly a support

[sand sail]

He actually tends to complain about playing support in a fight, lol

[visual merlin]

Yep, and against doffy too, Vergo as well, even yeti cool brothers and smoker just to reference other times he's fought

shit, hawkins as well

[near osprey]

Okay let's just end it here we've gotten entirely off subject arguing logistics.

[grizzled fog]

You didn’t actually offer any evidence at all tho

[visual merlin]

Blu, it all comes down to you actually supporting your point at all

[mint prairie]

Major Arcana:
8th, Strength ー UPRIGHT: Strength, courage, persuasion, influence, compassion. ー REVERSED: Inner strength, self-doubt, low energy, raw emotion.
Might be in reference to the whole main cast/raiders (Upright) or Sanji's ordeal (either reading).
19th, The Sun ー UPRIGHT: Positivity, fun, warmth, success, vitality. ー REVERSED: Inner child, feeling down, overly optimistic.
Upright reading seems to really add to the idea of the raid succeeding and good vibes, also the obvious Dawn on Wano. Reverse reading seems to be, again, focused on Sanji. Upright reading might also still be about Sanji, hinting at the way he might still keep his heart intact.
20th, Judgement ー UPRIGHT: Judgement, rebirth, inner calling, absolution. ー REVERSED: Self-doubt, inner critic, ignoring the call.
I believe this foreshadows the rebirth of Wano and the downfall of the Yonkou, it might just talk about Kid's recovery. The reverse reading might still be related to Sanji, but I really think it's more about Hawkins' character as noted by Killer.

[visual merlin]

there's all this "Well Law is frequently support" type of things, but no actual evidence to support that

Like, I just listed out most of his fights, and in each case he's getting up close and personal

[sand sail]

I was just answering the comment of Law plays back until he's forced to go melee, his preferred distance of attacking seems to actually be melee from what we've been shown

[visual merlin]

There's too much focus on the idea that law could be a good support, and not on what we've actually seen him do

[sand sail]

Law is frequently support, I would agree with that statement

[waxen dust]

the tarot cards next to Hawkins are indeed a reference to his utter defeat, the ones on the Killer panel moreso represents the entire alliance.

[sand sail]

However, I wouldn't join that with saying he's mainly support, or anything of the sort

He just often ends up helping in some specific way that only his powers can, but mostly that's actually outside of fights too

Teleportation is useful, after all

[grizzled fog]

Law acts as support AND as an attacker both pretty frequently simply because he has a wide range of abilities that he makes VERY good use of

[visual merlin]

Wouldn't even say that, he throws in the occasional teleport, but for the most part he's just attacking and taking hits

[sand sail]

Yeh, being a doctor and all. If I had to guess, I imagine his up close and personal moves take less stamina to pull off than moving around buildings

[visual merlin]

if we're assigning these roles of battle, I wouldn't give him support

[sand sail]

Nah, he's a main fighter who can support

[visual merlin]

yea, he'd be great as a support

[sand sail]

And he does do it frequently, to be fair. He helped more than a few times on the rooftop for example

[visual merlin]

I think thats where the whole idea comes from

[grizzled fog]

On the roof he teleported people in four instances, but that’s higher than on average I’d say. It was fairly equal

[sand sail]

But yes, his main shtick is definitely being on the melee offensive

[visual merlin]

I mean, 1 time is just to let the scabbards leave, another time was mainly to talk to luffy

there's only 1 time that was truly combat involved iirc

[grizzled fog]

I wasn’t even counting the scabbards

[sand sail]

Yeh, he also helps Zoro with an attack too

[visual merlin]

which was letting zoro help luffy

[sand sail]

And I believe he does it later on when Luffy gets knocked out?

[mint prairie]

@distant heron
Minor Arcana:
Ace of Spades ー UPRIGHT: Breakthroughs, new ideas, mental clarity, success. ー REVERSED: Inner clarity, re-thinking an idea, clouded judgement.
I don't see how this is not about Kid's recovery. I'd like someone else's input, to be honest. Otherwise I could stretch it and say it'll be something big for the fighters right now (Luffy Tigerman? Zoro? New Kid/Law techniques?).
7 of Wands ー UPRIGHT: Challenge, competition, protection, perseverance. ー REVERSED: Exhaustion, giving up, overwhelmed.
I can't make anything out of this. I might say it might be about the remaining Scabbards since they are the ones who need to persevere the most (also maybe Zoro?). The reverse reading might be about anyone about to be defeated or Momo having a slip up while carrying Onigashima.
9 of Swords ー UPRIGHT: Anxiety, worry, fear, depression, nightmares. ー REVERSED: Inner turmoil, deep-seated fears, secrets, releasing worry.
This sounds REALLY bad for the NINE Scabbards, I feel like we are really going to see many actual deaths from their side of things. The reverse reading probably keeps talking about Sanji and his current character arc.
10 of Coins ー UPRIGHT: Wealth, financial security, family, long-term success, contribution. ー REVERSED: The dark side of wealth, financial failure or loss.
I have nothing to go by with this, the only thing popping into my mind is the Road Poneglyph... and maybe the arrival of Ame no Habakiri? Either that or some other relevant treasure, either monetary or the recurring theme of treasures being anything as long as it is precious to someone.

[grizzled fog]

Teleported luffy to him after zoro cut Prometheus
Teleported Zoro to attack kaido
Teleported zoro presumably after blocking Hakai
Swapped with zoro when he used injection shot on kaido

[near osprey]

It's not purely just fights, I'm referring to how his character has been used through out the story. Obviously as a Captain you're going to still be someone who has to take difficult fights on head on. But due to how affective his ability is he has supported others very frequently. Which is why I call him a support.

[grizzled fog]

Wasn’t even counting scabbards since that was just clearing the debris off the battlefield

[visual merlin]

What does that even mean at that point

[sand sail]

LOL, that's savage.

[mint prairie]

Thanks! I'll try a second reading based on which ones are next to Killer and which ones are next to Hawkins.

[near osprey]

Fights are only a small part of OP

[visual merlin]

if its just helping people in general

[sand sail]

But still, that's fair to count, it was a support role there

[visual merlin]

most characters are support, luffy is a big support character

[sand sail]

^ That's also the other part of it

If we want to call what he does support, that actually goes for pretty much everyone who isn't Zoro

[near osprey]

Sanji falls under that same category it's just how his character is.

[visual merlin]

So is this about characters being nice now

[sand sail]

Well that's different, Sanji's entire persona is to be a supporting role to his crew

As much as he is a fantastic fighter, first and foremost he is the chef who enhances and the tactician who takes opportunity

[mint prairie]

As I mentioned before, I was about to elaborate on something, but ultimately decided not to in favour or a different approach. I believe Bounties are rather arbitrarily chosen by Oda and it serves little to no purpose to try and predict new Bounties out of the former ones. At most I can try and predict how many increases will there be, but een that is a stretch.

[near osprey]

As is Law, he's the one who went entirely out of his way to save Luffy

[visual merlin]

Luffy has gone out of his way to save many people

so is luffy also a support character?

[distant heron]

I don't think that those cards were used by Oda to portray their actual Tarot meanings, at least not exclusively, I think they were used symbolically for what they portray artistically. For example, the 9 of Swords is a reference to the 9 Scabbards, the 10 of Coins is a reference to Luffy's Nakama, the Sun is a reference to the Dawn that Luffy will bring. As for the rest I don't know.

[near osprey]

Yes but it's not like Law had an established relationship with Luffy at that point in time.

Yes they met but briefly but he still went entirely out of his way to Marineford to save Luffy

[visual merlin]

I don't get where the point is going though

is it just nice person = support charater

and that somehow leads into him not matching up with kid and luffy

[waxen dust]

-Hawkins
•Judgement (Reversed)
•7 of Wands (Reversed)
•9 of Swords (Reversed)

-Killer
•Strength
•Knight of Wands
•Sun
•Ace of Swords

Then you have the Tower Card

[distant heron]

I'm going into speculation territory now, but the 7 of Wands could be a reference to the Shichibukai? The Ace of Swords could probably point to Mihawk? It's very interesting. I also think the Tower actually means that Onigashima is going to fall.

[mint prairie]

I think those readings are accurate. However, I'd argue the end of the chapter clearly showcases the idea of card readings carrying meaning, so I believe it could be interesting to actually approach the tarot readings. For the 10 of Coins card, I believe this definitely hints at another Straw Hat joining given Luffy has 9 officially joined Nakama right now.

[distant heron]

Indeed, the Narrator makes it clear that the Tarot meanings are also used.
The 10th Coin could be related to Vivi and what happened during the Reverie. Much room for speculation

[near osprey]

Alright lets shift the conversation over, moving forward do you think CP-0 will be successful in capturing Robin or do you think an outside force will stop them?

[versed hamlet]

Well brook is with robin

[near osprey]

Or do you think it'll be resolved by someone in Wano

[heady parrot]

Q&A like this is more appropriate for #manga or #also-manga

[distant heron]

I'd also argue that the 10 of Coins is very important because Oda couldn't draw the card's artwork very well, yet he chose to draw this particular card instead of choosing a more simple one. What makes it clear that it's the 10 of Coins is the curved wall on the side of the card which is specific to this one card.

[waxen dust]

where do you see 10 of coins?

[distant heron]

I can't upload the snapshot, it's one of the cards to the left of the final doublespread.

The one right to the left of Hawkins.

[pine cliff]

is there a spoiler chat for this

[versed hamlet]

everyone should be caught up with the manga here

[near osprey]

Has it be released officially though

Been*

[waxen dust]

@distant heron you lost me, I am not seeing the 10 of Pentacles

[near osprey]

Some only read it through Shonen Jump when the official release drops.

[ashen plaza]

The raid will fail

Why?
Because the last few arcs made Straw Hats as the winner

After failing > Small skip

--
I dont have evidence but my years or reading expericence tells me ..

:)I dont think Luffy could defeat Kaido anytime soon, and defeating Kaido now isnt the same as killing him...Of course, Bigmom might fled after they defeated Kaido ,but that's under the assumption that Kaido would be defeated...

What do you guys think?

[near osprey]

Nah Luffy is going to succeed wouldn't make sense narratively for them to fail at this point.

Considering the fact we're entering the final Saga Post Wano they have to succeed if Oda actually wants to move the series forward.

[versed hamlet]

No if its in annoucements then its released

[near osprey]

Luffy is a Yonko in name only Wano is him proving himself worthy of that Title.

[distant heron]

If you look to the left of Hawkins you can see the Power card, which is the one with the skeleton taming the lion. The one above this is the 10 of Coins. It's hard to figure out, but you can tell by the arched wall which is barely recognizable.

[versed hamlet]

The raid isnt failing, theres been a decade of set up for this

[near osprey]

Much as Momo is a Shogun in name only but he still wants to prove himself worthy of that name.

If they fail Momo's entire character arc is thrown off the rails

[versed hamlet]

This one?

[distant heron]

Yes!

[versed hamlet]

shit looks like a doodle made by oda

[waxen dust]

no that’s Knight of Wands

@distant heron

[distant heron]

Damn, you could be right, there's something that indeed looks like a horse.

[waxen dust]

yeah it’s definitely a horse, plus you see the guy holding a stick. It’s small but it’s a bolder line that seems to look as a stick

[near osprey]

Damn Hawkins finally converted to team Worst Generation

[waxen dust]

More like team useless

[distant heron]

Is the card rotated?

[waxen dust]

no it’s upright

here @distant heron

#manga-theories message

[ashen plaza]

Hopefully, it the raid would succeed.. I just think that there are still many unknown variables

Like for example,the CP0 kidnapping Robin might force the Strawhat to retreat,right?

Or Blackbeard raiding WCI might make Bigmom to retreat.Why? Because Teach is a genius ,I guess...He would take any advantage he could,that guy is too awesome in his own way

[versed hamlet]

Blackbeard is definitely not raiding WCI

[near osprey]

Yeah but Post Timeskip isn't about Luffy failing, his failure was during Sabaody and Marineford that's why they trained for 2 years so they could never experience that again.

Kaido may seem impossible but Luffy is going to surpass him.

Much as Kidd is going to surpass Big Mom there isn't a losing player in this situation

[ashen plaza]

I hope so too..But in terms of age ,Luffy and the gang is too young compared to Shanks, Kaido,Bigmom ,Teach..I dont think the 2years timeskip is enough to cover the experience and mastery.Plus, the oldies might get stronger too, Sakazuki for example got stronger post timeskip

But I'm excited to see what would happen next

[near osprey]

Luffy is a storm

Mind you arcs might've taken years for us but days or weeks for them

That's why everyone is so irritable with Luffy because he's barely been on the sea but he's coming out of no where talking about being King of the Pirates

But that's also why he's underestimated each and every time.

[ashen plaza]

We'll see.. By the way, Dark King Rayleigh is the same as Pluto,Hades Rayleigh> and Rayleigh knows ship coating...Of course, Dark King probably means something different

[near osprey]

First he conquers the East Blue then sets out to Alabasta taking down a Shicibukai shortly after like Luffy comes out of no where and practically flips the world upside down. Then boom they disappear then come back out of no where and declares war with Big Mom after their first Island.

Then what? he picks a fight with Doflamingo and Kaido indirectly

This is a man who has faced all three Admirals at once without a single hint of fear in his eyes at 17 and now he's conquering the Grand Line at 19 it's practically an impossible feat and he's the only one who's capable of it.

Every where he goes he brings the New Dawn, countries in despair and darkness and he brings them the sun

So if Kaido won that's game over for Luffy the Straw Hats Journey ends there because who's going to handle Kaido if Luffy loses he's going to intercede on Big Mom's fight and boom Game Over. Kaido isn't going to leave him alive Luffy isn't a character you can tame and Kaido knows that now. So if he wins it's because Luffy is done for good.

[solid badger]

He 19 dawg

[eternal pawn]

Any theories on Blackbeard

Who/what he is

[raw palm]

He has three 3 balls

and three personalities

[pure raven]

so if luffy beats kaido that means shanks is stronger than kaido

i hear ppl disrespecting shanks cuz he has the lowest bounty of all the yonkos 😒

but i think it’s more likely the bounties aren’t based off raw strength more so on destructiveness and level of threat to the world government

[weak arrow]

This logic does not follow

[pure raven]

shanks prob has ridiculously strong haki

[narrow latch]

i only say the raid doesnt fail because there has already been so many chapters invested into wano

[pure raven]

why would shanks be weaker if kaido gets beaten first lol

[weak arrow]

Because Kaido was not beaten in a fair 1v1. Just because someone goes down first, that doesn’t make them weaker.

Crocodile weaker than Bellamy, for example?

[pure raven]

yea i suppose

kaido getting worn out by everyone

but why would he get into those situations in the first place

what if someone with super advanced observation haki can see so far into the future they can avoid “unfair” fights in the first place

i wonder if shanks sensed imu while he infiltrated reverie

if Rayleigh can scan like a whole island with his haki id assume so can Shanks

[weak arrow]

Assuming it was on, yeah

[narrow latch]

i wonder if there is a way to suppress your haki or presence as well

like if shanks could search for Imu's presence, but Imu may also be able to hide his presence as well. battle of wits

[pure raven]

doubt it, maybe shanks just wasn’t looking

[weak arrow]

Well, it hasn’t been expanded on yet, but the minks can do this

[pure raven]

what rly??

[weak arrow]

Yep. When Luffy is fighting the guardian minks on Zou, he was unable to sense all the minks that were hiding, watching the fight

[narrow latch]

it may only be unique to them then. they have a lot of rare traits like suolong for example

[pure raven]

or maybe luffy haki isn’t strong enough yet idk

[near osprey]

I don't agree with the Kaido wasn't beat in a fair 1v1 argument, Luffy has been taking hits as well since the Raid started.

Even got knocked out once already. Like sure he's going back to fight Kaido again and Kaido is being exhausted from the fighting but Kaido is already portrayed as this massive tank.

[halcyon tusk]

and by stark contrast luffy is rubber and will always bounce back

[near osprey]

At the end of the day it's going to be just Luffy vs Kaido, it is going to end in a 1v1 between the two.

[pure raven]

i wonder how luffy is gonna fight shanks lol

[halcyon tusk]

that’s what was set up by the narrator way back. “if it’s one on one, bet on Kaido”

[near osprey]

Yeah but the Tower chapter is indicative of the eventual win.

Cause if your back is up against the wall and all the chips are in you bet on Luffy

[pure raven]

onepiecebets

[halcyon tusk]

so unless i was trippin, kidd didn’t show any real fatigue or loss in morale after taking that massive hit from bigmom.

[near osprey]

If Luffy and Shanks clash it wont be serious, or at least it'd be like Roger clashing with Whitebeard they're gonna have fun and then have a feast after.

[ashen plaza]

What if ...Kidd traded his arm in exchange of Shanks' conqueror's Haki? I mean, Kidd learned a way to use CoHaki? What do you guys think?

[halcyon tusk]

i think kidd went too far and pissed off Akagami so he took his arm to teach em a lesson of common courtesy

[near osprey]

Yeah I imagine it was a hard lesson from Shanks

[halcyon tusk]

ironic that he took the left arm.. the one he is missing too..

[ashen plaza]

I feel like an Arm in exchange of Cohaki knowledge seems worth it when you could form another arm..But yeah, he probably pissed Shanks

[halcyon tusk]

plot twist, kidd killed Rockstar and that’s why shanks took his arm

[near osprey]

Nah I doubt it, be a weird trade off.

Kidd is known to involve civilians so he mightve just pissed Shanks off so bad he took his arm.

Cause from how Shanks is portrayed he was probably having fun with fighting Kidd and Kidd did something to make him go all out.

[ashen plaza]

Hmmm.. Still, I expect Kidd to learn something from Shanks..Intentionally or unintentionally

[near osprey]

Unless Kidd provoked Shanks before their fight and pissed him off from the get go and that usually means Kidd probably severely harmed one of his crew or a friend on the island they fought at.

[halcyon tusk]

words aren’t enough to make Shanks act on his rage

[ashen plaza]

When did Kidd met Shanks?2years span??

[near osprey]

Yeah so it makes me think Kidd harmed someone related to Shanks

[halcyon tusk]

that’ll do it

[near osprey]

Uhh most likely or while Luffy was leaving for Fishman or at Fishman

Whenever he first formed his alliance is the time period he went for Shanks

[ashen plaza]

Right,Do you guys think of the possibility that Shanks has a Celestial Dragon blood?

[near osprey]

Nah he doesn't

Theory is he's Xebecs son or has some relation to the Rocks Pirates

[ashen plaza]

To be fair, Xebec isnt the same age as Roger and Garp

[near osprey]

Cause I suppose his age lines up with the God Valley incident

[halcyon tusk]

i like the whole “he just spilt booze on me” attitude and i’m sure he has a good reason for being like that but having been built up to be the embodiment of Roger’s Will it does bring about concern in how i seriously doubt roger was letting ANYONE spill booze on him, whip his ass, or spit on him. i don’t see it.. so who did shanks pick that up from lol

[near osprey]

Probably Roger, you don't fight someone who isn't worth it.

Luffy picked it up from Shanks, Shanks probably saw Roger do the same thing when he was aboard his ship.

[halcyon tusk]

this is the same Roger that slaughter entire crews of lesser pirates just cause lol

[near osprey]

Yeah but some people just aren't worth the effort.

[ashen plaza]

I'm waiting for Blackbeard vs Shanks rematch..I personally think Luffy and Blackbeard aren't rivals, Blackbeard is old asf.. + Shanks and Blackbeard match up is just too good..

[near osprey]

Roger and Luffy are already alike in a ton of ways I'd imagine they share that common personality trait.

[halcyon tusk]

didn’t squard say that the difference in battle strength n capabilities were incredibly self evident yet roger still wiped out his crew..? it’s been a long time so i could be remembering it incorrectly

[ashen plaza]

Or Oda could make a scene similar to God Valley incident..

Teach vs Luffy and Coby

But that wont happen anytime soon

[near osprey]

Nah Teach and Luffy are rivals, if Luffy is the New Dawn, Teach would be the Moon

His whole fruit revolves around darkness

[ashen plaza]

Teach could still work as rival,because he basically started working seriously when he got the Yami yami no mi

[near osprey]

Teach and Shanks will fight but odds are Shanks will lose.

[ashen plaza]

I want to have Teach's patience

[halcyon tusk]

don’t answer me then XD lmaoo see how it is XD XD

[near osprey]

Sorry, well picture how Luffy will occasionally dumpster people who he clearly gaps. It's the same situation

Shanks knew those Mountain Bandits weren't worth the effort now they fucked with Luffy though so it's a different story.

Same with Luffy and Bellamy even though Bellamy spat on the fact Luffy dreams he didn't let it get to him because well Bellamy is a Pirate who can't even dream not worth the effort.

[halcyon tusk]

an entire crew.. killed.. for no apparent reason given that squardo didn’t leave out any important details

i don’t see luffy doing that

[near osprey]

I imagine Roger has came across people he just doesn't think was worth fighting even if they probably poured a drink on his head.

And like I said Shanks bore witness to that and it inspired him same as it did with Luffy

[halcyon tusk]

idk..the stories around the world all speak of him as a demon driven to fight even petty arguments

[sand sail]

@atomic knoll Not the channel for that

[near osprey]

Who knows I imagine it's not an important enough detail to involve in Roger back stories, maybe if Shanks talks about his time on his ship

We'll get a better idea but I doubt it'll be mentioned

[halcyon tusk]

it may have been Rayleigh whom shanks learned this from

[ashen plaza]

Or because of his bloodline...Yeah,no evidence ,dont mind me

[near osprey]

We've got Elbaf, Mariejois, New Marineford and LaughTale left as final destinations and the God Valley incident as a backstory left.

[ashen plaza]

I wont be surprised if Blackbeard isnt a real D,but he just decided to add D to his name

[near osprey]

Nah he most likely is.

[uncut loom]

Blackbear D.

[near osprey]

I don't see why he'd steal the D name

[halcyon tusk]

clout

[near osprey]

It puts a target on your back though

[halcyon tusk]

also builds your legend without you having to do diddly shxt

[near osprey]

I imagine D means Destiny or some shit

Why everyone with the D name has done incredible shit.

[halcyon tusk]

might not even be a D at all

[ashen plaza]

He might've misinterpreted it.His character just contradicts D.. He said people's dreams never ends,but he doesnt dream.. He believes in Fate but D doesnt seem following fate,but rather fighting it

Because Fate is the work of the Gods

[near osprey]

But there are always multiple Gods at play.

If there are God's who want to bring upon the New Dawn and chose Luffy as their champion, there are God's who want to maintain the Darkness so Blackbeard could be there's.

If Imu was JoyBoys counter part Blackbeard is Luffys

[ashen plaza]

I wont be surprised if the Celestial Dragons+ Imu came from the Moon,then the D clan are the natives

[near osprey]

Assuming Imu has been alive for 800 years that's just a theory of mine.

[near osprey]

Nah Celestials were just Kings who were ascended by whoever defeated JoyBoy during the Void Century cause the Don Quixote family ruled Dressrosa until after the Void Century and ended up as Celestials

[near osprey]

Yeah figure it'd have to be Dream or Destiny and Destiny makes more sense as it's a common theme of OP

Which explains why the God's intervened when Luffy was about to get his head chopped off in Loguetown by Buggy.

Lot of people think it was Dragon but even Dragon was surprised by the sudden gust of wind that passed through immediately after.

[halcyon tusk]

guess i missed that

[near osprey]

The anime doesn't portray that well enough but if you revisit the chapter you can read Dragons surprised response

He mightve been the one who stopped Buggy but he wasn't the one who sent the wind through the town that was something else.

[ashen plaza]

Do you guys think Roger's death left a scar on Buggy?

He seems depressed imo

[near osprey]

Can you blame him, his Rival greatly surpassed him and became a Yonko and the Kid who inherited Roger/Shanks Straw Hat beat the shit out of him. Then he got stuck in Impel Down while also being exposed as an ex Roger Pirate and has bullshitted his way to Shicibukai only for it to blow up in his face. Now he's on the run again.

Buggy is an unlucky lucky guy.

Ohh and the day he was meant to the see the One Piece with Roger he got a bad fever and had to stay on the ship.

[halcyon tusk]

could all be a ploy. he did manage to casually maneuver his body parts out of the way of mihawk actually trying to make contact and buggy wasn’t even actually paying much attention to that happening at all. buggy, like luffy, can tap into the power of inexplicability

[lone dew]

I really really would not like other planets or moon's etc coming into the one piece story but yes could be it. With skypiea they have already set the baseline if what u say is true.

[ashen plaza]

I mean, the moon has an effect on the Minks,so there might a deeper plot...Yeah, doesnt necessarily mean there were people there but atleast the moon has a purpose

[halcyon tusk]

i get serious blowback for strongly believing that not only will he do so, there’s every reason for him to show up in Wano Kuni. i’m referring, of course, to Katakuri and how him coming to wano sets up for so very much with just that one decision.

[near osprey]

Id imagine the D Clan were probably meant to rule as its descendants clearly have the ability to make great change but someone attempted to wipe them off the map.

[ashen plaza]

Btw, logue town >> Rogue town

[lone dew]

Does that mean that the current Celestial Dragons are the good people in a twisted way since they eliminate the troublesome D clan peeps @near osprey

[halcyon tusk]

nothing special about the tenryubito yet their enemies typically all have special characteristics, personalities, and abilities.

[near osprey]

Nahh Celestials are the bad guys the D Clan are good guys

[halcyon tusk]

nothing odd there at all

[near osprey]

I have a theory the Monkey Family is the Descendants of the Royal Bloodline as Garp, Dragon and Luffy are all incredibly powerful

[lone dew]

Yes I never thought of it like that true, Mink peep get sulong due to moonlight why is that, is that their true form that they can keep when closer / on to moon for a longer time. Is that time capped since they have choosen to stay on land.

[lone dew]

That for sure is correct seeing as how some Royal families are ousted

[halcyon tusk]

those aren’t the only members we know of belonging to the Monkey line of the Ds. there’s also Kong whom is portrayed to be hella strong too. mans biceps are the size of medicine balls

[near osprey]

Is Kong a Monkey?

[halcyon tusk]

yep

[near osprey]

Okay so a Fleet Admiral as well then

[halcyon tusk]

sengoku built different same as the Ds but he did basically come up with Garp

[near osprey]

So yeah something in that Monkey blood makes that family built different.

[ashen plaza]

My theory is that>> The people on the moon mastered technology ,and they want to raid other planets (YUP SOUNDS OUTRAGEOUS!!) ,they decided to raid this world,they got wrecked by the natives, their technology got destroyed and they cant go back to the moon because the technology isnt available here...Why?Because this world doesnt seem technological at all! So, they are waiting for the technology to be available again!

But!! There's a major flaw here(along other flaws XD), why cant the moon people send reinforcement? HMMM..perhaps ,they cant???

You see,the design of Marry Geosi(Wrong spelling) doesnt match the design of OP, it looks..modern?

[halcyon tusk]

but Sengoku built different too lol i wanna see one of yas acknowledge it too XD mans in his later years and still build like a brickshithouse standing at a staggering shxt ft, fxck in

[sand sail]

Kong is not a Monkey

[ashen plaza]

Is Kong old asf?

[sand sail]

And their family isn't really built different, they just live different lives

Luffy's the way he is because Garp trained him since he was 7, and he spent the next few years of piracy after that facing down the worst criminals in the world

For him, it was more who was in the lineage than the fact that he shared blood. Just like Koby's now mastered Rokushiki and became a Captain in the marines after two years from Garp teaching him, and that's straight from scratch. It always made sense that Luffy was the strongest guy in the East Blue, barring logias and other outliers, given who raised him and how

[near osprey]

Yeah but there's also the fact Garp is the Hero of the Navy, Dragon is the Leader of the RA and Luffy is tearing across the Grand Line to be Pirate King

[sand sail]

But both of those are explained by Garp alone, not their blood

He would have raised Dragon just as harshly as Luffy, after all

And given that Garp was the guy who used to swap hands regularly with Roger and lived to tell about it, and apparently could even land a few good hits himself, it makes sense for the two kids he ends up training to be monsters as well

[near osprey]

Yeah but I'm sure there's more significance to the Monkey line. Could be wrong maybe we'll find out more once we know more about D.

[ashen plaza]

Not just monkey, One piece is full of animal names

Wait.... Perhaps,the animal surnames is the surname of the D??But through time,it vanished..But seems too far

[near osprey]

Assuming everyone with the D. Name are related there's a family that sat on top during the Void Century

[ashen plaza]

The problem is,One Piece might be full of fake names

[halcyon tusk]

thanks I actually didn’t know that calling him Monkey•D•Kong is a theory originating from us fans. my bad, but still as long as it’s been a thing, Oda surely must’ve heard about said theory, and could’ve easily dispelled any such rumors regarding someone he’d hold in high esteem within his characters as being the FA during the Era of truly terrifying Pirates. he would have us respect such a man he’s told us next to nothing about.

but he didn’t/hasn’t

[ashen plaza]

What if ... There are still many D people but they erased the D in their names because they might get hunted down but the blood still lives?This is under the assumption that there was a purge of D people ,way back then

[narrow latch]

what if Imu isnt mihawk, but related to him instead

[lone dew]

D people are not always hunted down, but for some reason Laws family hid it. Same for Roger the gov hid it to get people out of ideas that D meant something. So gov imo wants people with D in name to behave like normal citizens

[ashen plaza]

I see... I dont want to weird but, Imu seems like a woman to me

[mint prairie]

So far we know of:
Monkey Family:
Garp - The Hero of the Marines who has been doing nothing but good deeds despite never bowing to the WG and remaining a vice-admiral.
Dragon - Revolutionary Army leader who has been doing nothing but wrecking havoc.
Luffy - Notorious pirate who has been doing nothing but wrecking havoc.

Gol/Portgas Family:
Roger - The greatest Pirate in recent history, D. initial kept in the dark for unknown reasons.
Rouge - Former lover of Roger, gave up her life in order to keep Ace's birth a secret from the WG.
Ace - Son of the Pirate King, notorious pirate who has executed for his ties to both Whitebeard and Roger.

Independent actors:
Law - Notorious pirate responsible for the still-in-the-dark Rocky Port incident, his family willingly hid the D. initial without the WG directly intervening.
Saul - A former vice-admiral who died during a Buster Call, as a vice-admiral he was a key member within the Marines.
Teach - Yonkou member who possesses great power, yet the WG has made no attempts at hiding his initial.
Xebec - The greatest pirate in known history before Roger, captain of the most dangerous, powerful pirate crew at his time. His name has been censored entirely, not just his ties to the clan of D.

Out of all of them, only those related to Roger have faced some form of persecution from the World Government, while Xebec's existence was entirely censored.

[radiant oxide]

D. carriers usually seem like confident and reckless risk-takers, which is why Law's parents might have been the odd one out in that they were pretty cautious not to have Law mention his D. initial.

[mint prairie]

Which is interesting, given even the Marines acknowledge Roger as a key factor in defeating Xebec, so he might not be deemed as the absolute worst of morality. The only thing that can be taken as a reason for him to be censored and persecuted was the fact he reached the end of the Grand Line, even if there is no indication that the WG knew Roger found the last island.

[worthy belfry]

Do you think kid could take big mom?

[ashen plaza]

Nope...

[radiant oxide]

Perhaps depending on how he uses his Conqueror's Haki.

[worthy belfry]

Luffy beats kaido and kid defeats big mom?

[mint prairie]

I think anything can happen, but that's a discussion for #manga and #also-manga. I personally expect Luffy to intervene and have the three Supernovas defeating Big Mom.

[ashen plaza]

If Kid's cohaki became strong asf ,his meeting with Shanks might've been a variable

[ancient vault]

Yes

[radiant oxide]

Yeah, I could see Luffy and other defeating big mom altogether after beating kaidou, maybe even have yamato help out.

[versed hamlet]

Easily

[tawdry bramble]

The real question is what happens after their defeat. Does someone kill or capture them? They’re very important players going forward if they’re still around.

[mint prairie]

I'd assume they'll capture who they can, kill who they must. BM could be captured under the right conditions, Kaido has been proven to be unfit for captivity.

[karmic cave]

I think luffy will cook kaido

[mint prairie]

LCK.

[sinful helm]

can you cook oden with kaido?

[hasty palm]

Luffy meat

[pure raven]

So I wanted to talk about a theory concerning the famous pandaman present in manga, anime, games and more

[hasty palm]

Just for luck

[pure raven]

In my personal opinion, pandaman is not a character from the story due to the one piece time and space he's never in

Pandaman is in fact a character from our real story.. meaning our real world

[hasty palm]

Nope

[pure raven]

Listen to the end you'll see where I'm going

[sinful helm]

pandaman has a back story already

[hasty palm]

I'm listening

[pure raven]

Pandaman was encoded with the will of D so it's sounds more like PAN D. MAN

[hasty palm]

🤣

[pure raven]

Now.. Who is Pan?

[mint prairie]

[pure raven]

You'll be scared until the end of your life once I told you

[hasty palm]

Just try it

[pure raven]

Pan is the famous piedpaper from the legend but also the mythological creature Pan symbolises crowd craziness I'll paste the story so you can catch up 5sc

[sinful helm]

there is a pandaman explanation on yt

[hasty palm]

I wish to see the end of one piece before I died

[pure raven]

In 1284 while in the town of Hamelin was suffering from a rat infestation. A piper dressed in multicolored clothing appeared to calming to be a rat catcher. The mayor promised to pay him fro thr removal of the rats. The piper accepted and played his pipe to lure the rats into the Weser River. All the rats drowned there. Despite the piper's success, the mayor reneged on his promise and refused to pay him the full sum. The piper want a revenge and comes back to the town. On Saint John and Paul's day, while the adults were in church, the piper returned dressed in green like a hunter and playing his pipe. In so doing, he attracted the town's children.

[sinful helm]

[hasty palm]

😅

That story

[pure raven]

What you need to know is that Pan is present everywhere in your audiovisual content.. literally

If you watch Peter Pan from Disney you'll never see it the same again and see the hidden truth

[sinful helm]

Pan is the satyr in Greek mythology

[pure raven]

I hope this theory can enlighten you 🙂

[mint prairie]

I miss the raid failing people now.

[pure raven]

Also I hope we see the times kaido previously has been captured in his flashback

[mint prairie]

That'd be really good.

[tepid coral]

Hmm I just know that pandaman is a running gag but seeing someone do such in depth analysis of pandaman makes me feel like an idiot😓 😓

[pure raven]

Don't say that.. I feel an idiot too discovering things overtime that were under my nose x)

The essential is that we understand at the end but what I've said it's just what I think

[tepid coral]

Hehe be that theory correct or not but still I appreciate that u did such in depth analysis of a minor character like pandaman

👍 👍

[pure raven]

Thank you!! I appreciate you taking the time and effort to read it 😬

[drowsy marsh]

Hawkins said that killer had the worst luck and he lived on borrowed time. I have to see the official but it could hint to killer being the 1% guy.

[visual merlin]

He said Killer had 8% of living, so can't be, thats probably what you remember as worst luck too

[night jewel]

well he did say that he has the worst luck when he found out that he had eaten a smile too but yeah, he has an 8% chance of living, not 1%

[summer jasper]

if anyone's got a 1%, its gonna be zoro after the drug stop

[visual merlin]

1% is probably still drake or law, maybe Kid I guess

[severe edge]

Could be a foreshadow to Robin after the WG come in

[sinful helm]

1% for himself

[acoustic helm]

On a cover story Kidd shirts had 99% written on it.
Like Hawkins told killer his death %is 92

[foggy sand]

Kidd and Law as they are now most likely can't defeat BM. I think Caribou will be the key to take her down.

The Heart pirates are somehow on onigashima rn. Caribou is also probably with them and he has an entire weapons factory with him that he got during his cover story. Kidd can make use of that to do something crazy and take down bm.

[bitter kraken]

If hawkings hadn’t jacked up Kidds body with his creepy ability I woulda been more confident in Kidds ability to take down bm but I always remlewner that Kidd is idk if y’all think the same but luffys rival? So he should be able to do some great feats I’m rooting for him tho dude needs a win

[weak arrow]

Pretty sure the heart pirates being on onigashima was a mistake

[naive breach]

the symbol on zoro's teacher

the symbol on the samurai's back in the cave

[foggy sand]

do you have a source?

[weak arrow]

Yes it’s already been confirmed koshiro’s family is from wano

[naive breach]

theory : they may have some connection

[weak arrow]

Common sense source it doesn’t make sense for them to be there

[foggy sand]

bruh

[naive breach]

oh

[weak arrow]

Confirmed to be a shimotsuki descendant, even. So um, decent chances Zoro and Kuina are related

[weak arrow]

I mean I’m just telling it like it is Most people think it was a drawing mistake

[foggy sand]

would be a weird mistake to make

[weak arrow]

I mean we’ve had Zoro having luffy’s scar, queen not having his mustache/robotic leg (with only the former getting fixed in volume release) so it’s not like these things don’t happen

[naive breach]

in ch 1014 kaido said to luffy "you are not joyboy either" how did it know about joyboy?

[foggy sand]

damn fr? which chapters did those happen

[weak arrow]

Probably revolves around being in Rocks crew. They probably at least had some information about one piece

[weak arrow]

Zoro having Luffy scar was on the ship on the way to dressrosa so like in the 690s and queen missing stuff was like 940s where he fights big mom

[gentle echo]

l have a theory will of d is passing from generation to generation (monkey and gol family is a proof, and jaguar d. saul said all his family have d on thier names) so a think black beard can be xebecs son cause thier goals are similar black beard is 40 years old and xebec died 38 years ago so age is accurate

[severe edge]

law is a missing factor in that tho

[gentle echo]

and blackbeards main ships name is "saber of xebec" maybe he name his ship for honor his dad

[bitter kraken]

This isn’t new I said he is prolly dudes son long ass time ago 😎

[modest skiff]

Doesn’t need to be “new” for people to still enjoy discussing a topic. People can end up with new perspectives through conversation. No need to remind people it isn’t new

[rustic elm]

Did sanji becoming cyborg

Just asking

[severe edge]

he's not a cyborg

more like a mutant

[runic osprey]

He is genetically modified

[pure raven]

does that mean that sanji turn out the best in whole germa 66

[weak arrow]

We don't know. It's hard to say he's best without knowing the full ramifications. He will probably retain his emotions cause this is one piece so yes, he'll probably be the best

[amber oar]

A hunch with zero evidence, but if Sanji's brothers don't have emotions, do they have a will of their own? If not then they can't use haki?
If Sanji retains his emotions, retains his will, retains his haki and gains the Germa enhancements, that makes him far, far stronger

oh, in fact noone in Germa is listed as haki user. However, the main argument against all of this is that they could stand BM's haki blast

to resist a CoC blast you don't have to be a haki user, but supposedly you must have a strong willpower

[pure raven]

biggest flex from sanji to his son of a bitch dad

[weak arrow]

Pretty sure they all have a will. I don’t think they bullied Sanji their whole life just on judge’s orders.

[pure raven]

also dont have evidence but i think luffy and kidd will become yonko after beating kaido and big mom respectively

[weak arrow]

I don’t think there will be a yonko system after the takedown, also kid is not even remotely close to being a yonko

[pure raven]

he has conquerers haki tho

maybe he will unleash his full strength in this fight

[weak arrow]

Conquerors haki doesn’t mean you’ll be a yonko. And I don’t mean in just strength either

Kid does not have a fleet. He may have 1 island he calls his own, maybe

[pure raven]

hmmmm thats true

it would be cool if kidd makes the beast pirates ccome under him to work togeather and take down cp9 with the strawhats

i mean cp0

[pure raven]

Have you considered Shiki to be this certain pirate? Threat wise he's more dangerous than kidd.

Finally taking a look at the actual Reverie scene, what's peculiar about Shanks' dialogue is how he felt the need to generalize this figure to such a degree in his opening statement, reducing them to something as basic as just... 'an individual involved in piracy'.
Shiki seems to be an individual involved in more than piracy since he's aiming to bring chaos to the entire world and has been waiting for 20 years. Also about shanks warning whitebeard about teach, he only warned him because he knew something climactic was about to take place; of what would become between Blackbeard vs Ace. With Kidd nothing seems to indicate that. This seems to be more about vengeance with shanks if he were going to the Gorosei about Kidd. With Shiki he's been waiting for 20 years for the opportunity to get back at the world which would align with the current time in One Piece.

to me shanks doesn't seem like the Pirate to go to the marines for vengeance but more so to protect the balance of the world and stop it from going into chaos. Like what he did at the war and when he warned whitebeard. Kidd doesn't really seem like he would be the type to do that, but I think Shiki more so. He like kidd is also out of the WG radar

Also you say that Shanks would talk about the threat in which Kidd posses to the celestial dragon. I don't think Shanks really cares about them, nor is he a pirate who would try to lie about it in order to get vengeance on kidd. If this considers the Gorosei I feel like it would be something that has to do with the entire world.

Shanks crew does travel a lot so I think there's a good chance they would eventually find an island like shiki.

It's also weird how Kidd was able to get away from the red-haird pirates, but his character doesn't really strike me as the type to retreat but rather fight until the end like what he did when he first encountered Kaido. It's possible shanks might of just sparred him and took his arm to teach him a lesson.

[near osprey]

Shanks has always kept his eye on Blackbeard since they first met, the fact Blackbeard doesn't sleep threw him off then BB is also the one to deliver him his scar over his eye.

Shiki may play a role in the Final Saga but BB is still the biggest threat and I doubt Shanks is going to worry about a dude well past his prime rather than someone who's been scheming and building power since he obtained his DF

Odds are if Shiki intends on bringing chaos he'd fight on Blackbeards side during the Final War but that's about it.

We're most likely going to be looking at a conflict with Luffy and the Worst Generation behind him fighting Blackbeard and all the evil forces behind him

As Hawkins was converted right before Killer knocked his ass out so I don't think there's anyone left for Luffy to convert part of his Generation

Plus BBs ship name is the Saber of Xebec so there's already implications there that BB has some relation to him

If he were warning the WG about anyone it'd be Blackbeard

[jade breach]

noice

[pure raven]

Well I don't think Blackbeard would fit because he's already on the WG radar, like Shim said in his theory. Personally I think it would be too predictable to be Blackbeard, doesn't feel like Oda to do this again. Everyone is already well aware of the threat that Blackbeard posses to the world like having 2 dangerous devil fruit and what his crew is doing with stealing fruits. Because there's no real point in warning them about something they already know

Shanks is going to worry about a dude well past his prime rather than someone who's been scheming and building power since he obtained his DF

Shiki has been scheming for 20 years. He's like a ghost, don't think the WG are concerned about him.

Shiki has a plan 20 years in the making that's suppose to show the world hell

[near osprey]

Yeah but Whitebeard had Blackbeard on his radar as well and underestimated him. The fact the WG is underestimating the true threat of Blackbeard is indicated by the fact he's a Yonko but his bounty sits at 2.4-2.5 Billion Berries like yeah they recognize him as a threat but he isn't valued as much as someone like Kaido or Big Mom are.

[pure raven]

I don't think anyone is underestimating him, Imu himself got his sights on him.

Im-sama

[near osprey]

That doesn't change the fact he is generally left alone by the WG. If they actually considered him a threat they'd have sent the Admirals to dispatch him already.

They're more threatened by the Storm that is Luffy sweeping across the New World while Blackbeard works in the shadows and keeps himself some what low-key until it's the right time to strike.

[bitter kraken]

Shiki is too much of an interesting character to not put into the story in a big way

[pure raven]

that doesn't work, because they would of done the same thing to other yonkos as well. Yonkos are there for balance

[near osprey]

No, they're not...they're a Pillar of power yes but the WG doesn't keep them around to maintain balance they just actively can not distribute a ton of resources to handle them that's why the Shicibukai System was implemented but now the WG has developed a weapon they're confident could assist them in conquering the Sea. That's why the Warlord system was abolished and now they're actively trying to capture said Shicibukai.

Blackbeard has been practically left alone even after he recruited Impel Down Inmates on his crew and stole Whitebeards Fruit at the Paramount War.

Then he defeated the Whitebeard Remnants shortly after and has been stealing Devil Fruit left and right to empower his forces.

There isn't a single person who poses a larger threat to the entire world more than Blackbeard does.

Consider the fact he just obtained Moria's Devil Fruit during the first act of Wano. Imagine what he's going to do with said fruit. As Moria dug up Ryuma and gave him a breath of life who do you think Blackbeard is going to revive with that fruit?

We're looking at a Pirate with a plethora of powerful Fruit Users and now someone who can raise an undead army

[pure raven]

they sent Akainu after him

[near osprey]

When?

[pure raven]

after the war

[near osprey]

I don't recall that.

and I just rewatched Marineford like a month ago

[visual merlin]

yes akainu went after BB soon after the marineford war

its when BB interacted with Bonney

[near osprey]

Ahh yeah they just dipped out though

Had to go to Sakazuki's Wiki page

But after that then what?

[wary fossil]

then akainu fought kuzan for fleet admiral and won, kuzan joined bb, gorosei got mad at akainu about it, akainu said not my problem

[near osprey]

Nahh Akainu defended Aokiji for that.

He knows Kuzan joined for a reason. Most likely to keep tabs on Blackbeard's activities.

[pure raven]

you also said it yourself on why the WG can't eliminate Blackbeard

WG doesn't keep them around to maintain balance they just actively can not distribute a ton of resources to handle them

[near osprey]

Sure for Pirates like Big Mom, Kaido or Whitebeard but Teach became a Yonko what a year after the Paramount War?

They could've easily taken care of him during that two year period but didn't.

[visual merlin]

who?

[near osprey]

Blackbeard

During his battle with the Whitebeard Pirates post Paramount after he won he was named a Yonko of the Sea.

[pure raven]

well he's a yonko now but you are arguing if they saw him as a threat they would of tried to eliminate him all ready via the 3 admirals when they've already sent akainu after him.

he ran away

[near osprey]

Yeah but Akainu sounds like there only attempt at handling Blackbeard, even after he got away and Akainu became a Fleet Admiral his focus seems to be more on the Straw Hats than Blackbeard

[wary fossil]

he's not defending kuzan he is defending himself and the navy

[near osprey]

Hmm anime had a different scene

Why I read and watch can miss shit other wise.

[visual merlin]

we just established an admiral was sent after him though

[near osprey]

Once

[visual merlin]

because we don't know everything that goes on in their lives

[near osprey]

Luffy's had Aokiji, Fujitora and even Garp on his ass at one point or another.

[visual merlin]

we don't know that they didn't make other attempts to take him down

[near osprey]

But it's the only context we're given at this point.

[visual merlin]

and by the time he's a yonko, there's no point in making those attempts, same as the others

its not context in any way, we just don't know

What we do know, is they made a big attempt to capture him once, at least

[near osprey]

This stems from if Shanks is warning the WG about Blackbeard or Shiki

I imagine it'd be Blackbeard more than anyone else as Blackbeard is the biggest threat to not only the WG but everyone on every Island

[visual merlin]

what does that have to do with this aspect of the argument though

assuming BB is the person shanks mentioned, how does this part of the argument connect

[near osprey]

Because it's the original topic of the conversation, now we're stemming to if the WG might be underestimating Blackbeard at this point in the story

[visual merlin]

okay, then we don't know

we ourselves don't know how much of a threat BB is rn

[wary fossil]

underestimating one of the highest bounties?

[tawdry bramble]

We as readers know Blackbeard is a bigger threat than BM and Kaidou

[near osprey]

But the WG as an entity don't

[visual merlin]

how do we know that

[near osprey]

Because we know he's the final hurdle for Luffy

[tawdry bramble]

Because that’s how stories work.

[visual merlin]

final villain doesn't mean biggest issue for WG currently

[wary fossil]

all of this is based on blackbeard having wb's fruit secretly but the wg knows

[near osprey]

Nahh Moria's fruit now

[sand sail]

These aren't really good examples to support your argument, tho. Luffy's had those people on his ass for different reasons

Aokiji only went after them because of Nico Robin, not Luffy. Fujitora was just a coincidence, and Garp was his family and was making it a point to come see him, and didn't actually want to catch him at first

they had to twist his arm into doing it

[near osprey]

Yes but as far as we've known the WG has put more effort to bringing Luffy down than Blackbeard currently as the only person we know right now sent after BB was Akainu

[sand sail]

Blackbeard has a multi-billion berry bounty, that's an extremely active attempt at bringing him in, there's just only so much you can do to a man who can wipe out your whole fleet with a swipe of his arm.

[sand sail]

But I just explained why this is incorrect

Luffy's only ever had an admiral sent after him twice. Once at Sabaody for punching a Celestial Dragon, and once after Dressrosa when Akainu just gets upset that Fujitora let him go

[near osprey]

Akainu even considered Luffy a larger threat as he ignored Blackbeard on Marineford instead to chase after Luffy

Because he knew if left alone Luffy will pose a massive threat to the WG.

[sand sail]

Luffy was a well known pirate and connected to the worst of the worst, Blackbeard was a nobody

[near osprey]

Even though Blackbeard had just stolen WB's fruit and possesses two fruit powers.

[sand sail]

He's also just got a one track mind when it comes to chasing someone down for the most part, he was making it a point that he'd kill Luffy. There was no need for him to pay attention to Blackbeard

[visual merlin]

as far as we know they've also put more effort into taking down luffy than anyone besides WB

[sand sail]

There were 5 admirals or comparable marines around at a minimum plus the warlords still behind him. Why would Akainu care to do more than look back and note Blackbeard is trouble?

[visual merlin]

its a bit unfair to not recognize that we just don't know everything that happens

[foggy sand]

sengoku and garp were fighting the bb pirates

[sand sail]

Really, the bounty alone is the objective statement from Oda about the efforts gone through to deal with people

They've developed an entirely new combat method just to deal with a rising threat that he was the heaviest contributor toward

[near osprey]

I'd say Blackbeard is still undervalued. Even if he does sit at 2.2 Billion Berries I'd say that undermine's the real threat he poses.

[sand sail]

If he's at 2.2 billion, it's because that's the threat he's proven himself to be

[near osprey]

But they're unaware of the real threat he poses which is why I go back to the original topic and say that's who Shanks would be warning the WG about. Because they underestimate his true potential as Whitebeard and Ace did.

[sand sail]

He's an Emperor, he's literally the highest possible threat classification in the world

I don't think it's actually possible to undermine an Emperor's threat

[near osprey]

But he's overshadowed by Kaido and Big Mom

[sand sail]

No, he isn't, that's the point of being an Emperor as well

Those two have a higher bounty, but he is their peer

[near osprey]

If he has a lower bounty by nearly 2 Billion that means they overshadow him as Threats.

[sand sail]

We're just only getting spotlight on them right now, and that's only because they're working together at once. Naturally two Emperors will overshadow one

[near osprey]

In the eyes of WG they are a bigger threat than BB is.

[sand sail]

No, it just means they've been at it longer. He's an Emperor, and a known devil fruit hunter with the strongest paramecia in the world

That makes him equal in threat to literally anyone who isn't like directly destroying the government right now

[near osprey]

Bounties are literally indicative of where the WG sees a Pirate sits at in terms of a threat level.

[sand sail]

Together they are, yeh. Separately, they're all the same, that's how the concept of the Emperors are introduced

[near osprey]

Luffy is only valued higher because of his potential as becoming a massive threat and the fact Robin is highly valued as she is the only person we know of aside from probably the Dons and Imu who can read Poneglyphs and decipher them.

Not his bounty but the effort they put in stopping him.

[sand sail]

They don't put any effort into stopping him, though

Luffy runs into the government

They rarely actually go out of their way to pursue him

Even with Aokiji, that was an entirely coincidental thing based on Nico Robin and not on Luffy at all

[near osprey]

Sengoku sent Garp to take care of Luffy, he sent Aokiji to take care of Robin and probably assumed the SHs as well and Akainu sent Fujitora to get rid of Luffy once he learned what Island was next on their journey. They actively attempt to stand in Luffy's way whenever they can they're just unaware of how lucky Luffy is and how easy it is for him to befriend even a foe. Plus Kizaru on Sabaody until Kuma prevented their annihilation.

Luffy has faced every threat the WG has at their disposal at one point or another even if he did bring it upon himself.

Blackbeard has worked in the shadows, he's cunning and moves when the time is right even if he does steal Fruits he isn't active until he needs to be which allows him to remain under the radar even with a 2.2B Berry Bounty

It's not the WGs fault persay that they don't get very many opportunities to strike at BB because he doesn't give them ample opportunity too.

[sand sail]

I believe literally everything you've said is either wrong or close to it there...

[near osprey]

Luffy is loud brash and headstrong while Blackbeard is cunning, he knows when to fight and not too.

[sand sail]

So, Garp wasn't sent by anyone to go to Luffy. Koby and Helmeppo wanted to see them. Sengoku wanted him to actually go do his job since he was there lol

Aokiji, they were actually mad at because no one sent him anywhere, and he is an admiral. Admirals aren't supposed to just go wondering off like Garp does, but because it's Aokiji, he does it anyway

Probably gets it from Garp, even

[near osprey]

It's a perfectly reasonable response from the WG to send Garp at Luffy after Luffy had just wrecked Enies and declared war on the WG

[sand sail]

Akainu didn't send Fujitora to get Luffy, Doflamingo called in the marines and Fujitora just happened to be picked. The threat wasn't because of Luffy, it was because there was an active pirate alliance and Doflamingo, a far greater threat than Luffy, had just abdicated from his throne

[sand sail]

Yeah, it's a perfectly reasonable response, that's just not what happened.

[near osprey]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRIr9c1nLC0&ab_channel=AnimeLover

Akainu sending Fujitora at Luffy and Law

[sand sail]

They've never actively attempted to pursue Luffy, which is the question here. Standing in his way is natural, it's literally their job to stand in the way of a pirate in front of them, no one actually gets away with it. Even the emperors get attacked by marines when they're around

But that's not the same as being actively pursued from a distance

[near osprey]

"We can't allow them to do what they want, we'll observe the situation for another day I dispatched Fujitora"

After Intel he received from Smoker

[sand sail]

As I said, for Law and Luffy

Fujitora wasn't dispatched because Luffy was involved, he was dispatched because the world balance was being thrown into chaos

[near osprey]

You just said he didn't send Fujitora for Luffy

[sand sail]

Hell, he names Law first. That's actually why it was such a huge thing

Because two warlords were involved, not because Luffy was there

[heady parrot]

you literally just said that doffy called the marines tho dude at least be consistent with your lies lmao

[sand sail]

^

Yeh, I was wrong about Doflamingo calling them, I was thinking about when Law mentioned he could