manga-theories

[lapis prairie]

I'd think that Blackbeard sort of makes sense as a Hippo. First, there's the teeth. Beyond that, Hippos are rotund, innocuous looking creatures that are very high on the list of animals with the most human kills.

It's apt for how we first ran into Black Beard

[modest skiff]

Where do we know Xebec wanted to be king of the world?

[modest skiff]

My theory is that a great number of current "bad guys" (Like Doffy) are just laser focused on killing CDs and don't care about what happens after. I think they don't care what happens after because they think the situation is already critically bad.

I also think its possible he would have been a better king of the world than CDs. Luffy wants to be the pirate king. Being king does not always mean being an asshole. Head canon for me is that the world would have been better if Xebec succeeded, even if millions died along the way

(Better in terms of my weird autistic views of ethics)

When I think about slaves being worked to death so that CDs can have moving floors, I have a hard time disagreeing with characters like Doffy. I think he is totally right. I don't have objections to doing what is necessary to kill the CDs and figuring out what to do after that

The year is 2044, Archer has finished typing his message

[pastel jewel]

Lmao

[ember trench]

Nobody should be king of the world. That's the problem. One group of people claiming sovereignty over the world will never be a good thing. Luffy explicitly doesn't want to rule anyone. He wants to be the freest man on the seas. That's what PK is to him. Most of the pirate villains are self-serving with their own ambitions with some just happening to involve going against the government. Croc doesn't give a shit about global oppression when his entire plan involves bringing a country to ruin and using a weapon of mass destruction to build his own empire. Doffy hates the world and wants it all to burn but also wants to sit at the top, he even created his own mini-World Government in microcosm when he took over Dressrosa. Kaido wants to build the strongest army in the world and fight in the biggest war the world has ever seen. Big Mom is actually the most interesting because her ambition starts from a seemingly altruistic place but her implementation of it shows demonstrates her true nature.

With Xebec, I fail to see how the world would be any better with him sitting on the Empty Throne. It would probably be much, much worse. How many nations are going to settle for being vassals to a government that was usurped by criminals and terrorists? What will the stance on piracy be and how will it be fought without the marines? Would a self-serving egomaniac like Rocks care about any of that, would his power even be sustainable? What kind of atrocities would he commit to hold onto what he has stolen, especially if he locates and acquires ancient weapons? Would he even have the shrewdness of the the current regime to at least cover up his atrocities when he was the leader of a "rampaging force of evil"?

If he took over, the entire world would crash and burn

[exotic echo]

Quite right.

[modest skiff]

I can understand why you would think that and I think all of those thoughts are logical and valid.

If I may offer another perspective: Someone being the new king could just mean they define the rules. While I do think its totally possible Xebec wanted to rule like the CDs, I am not convinced WB or BM would sign up for that. I think we know enough about their characters to know they wouldn't sign up for that. So just for the record, I don't buy the idea that Xebec was a generic bad guy, but I will say that I think it is possible.

I don't think that's Kaido's end goal at all. I think everything you described is a means to a larger end. I don't know what it is, but I'm not sold on it being as simple as you described.

BM's society, IMO, is like an episode of Star Trek. People sign up voluntarily. They live wonderful lives. They are stuck, yeah, but its hard to see her as evil.

If I may have a bit of a divergence: A lot of bad guys in one piece could also just be kinda autistic in terms of it being too laser focused. BM has major character flaws that make her altruism not go very well.

I agree we aren't better off with Xebec being on the throne. I agree with all your analyses that presuppose that, but I disagree with it as a basic assumption. But we don't know, so I'll just shrug and say "who knows".

I truly think Xebec intended to kill all the CDs, kill a ton of innocent people along the way, tell the world he will kill anyone who tries to form a government, then say "Alright fuck you all, bye" and just do his own thing. I think he intended to force the world to be free, so to speak. Kaido and BM wouldn't join otherwise.

[echo terrace]

[modest skiff]

@ember trench I have to go grab dinner but I will be back and respond to you when I am back. Just FYI when I don't respond right away

It seems like you're typing a great response so just wanted to let you know I will see it when I am home

(just didn't wanna seem rude when I don't respond right away)

[ember trench]

Big Mom is totally on board with Kaido's idea of a world of violence and is willing to go along with it to have her own shot at the top. Whitebeard has every reason to hate the CDs and the current regime; his hometown suffered under piracy because it couldn't afford the tribute, and he tells Oden that his country is still "free" because it wasn't under the World Government. It was also a long time ago. People can change and Whitebeard clearly doesn't have a very good opinion of his "last crew" by the tie he meets Oden.

Yes, whoever sits at the summit of the world is god and gets to create the new world. That still involves wreaking havoc and a lot of atrocities committed in the name of solidifying that new world order. There's a reason the World Government doesn't want its own skeletons coming out of the closet. Furthermore based on what we do know of Xebec we can safely say his goals were not altruistic in the slightest.

There is more going on with Kaido. We'll see where it goes. He is still a warlord and slaver who oppressed an isolated country for 25 years, so don't expect a complete 180.

There is one very important detail that solidifies Tottoland as totally evil. People who come cannot leave. They sign up for it and then they're stuck with it, to be taxed on their life force and trapped under the thumb of a tyrant who kills over the slightest infractions. And what about outside her country? What kind of world peace can possibly be created by a woman who destroys countries that can't pay her with the snacks she wants, or has her soldiers sack islands for ingredients to make a cake, or lops off the heads of a person's loved ones for not showing up to her parties? She is evil through and through and so is her dream; it's just wrapped up in a sweet exterior. And if you don't like it or her, it means she has to kill you.

The little detail of the CD’s slaves needing protection doesn’t paint a very good picture of the group and what they were trying to accomplish either. Xebec and his group weren’t liberators out to make the world a better place.

Not to mention if Garp and Roger are out to bring you down lol...

[modest skiff]

Alright @ember trench I'm back and appreciate you leaving those thoughts. It seems like we have a couple fundamental assumption differences.

It is possible I missed where we explicitly know Kaido wants a world of violence. Can you explain what you mean by that? I think BM went along with Kaido because she knows who he is from her time with him on the crew. I don't think he just wants the world to burn. Perhaps I missed why you think that, perhaps just estimations like mine.

I think WB ended up fundamentally agreeing with Roger. I think its possible WB was willing to kill a bunch of CDs and then got cold feet when he realized all the slaves would die too.

Small side-thought:I think Sengoku's emphasis on the slaves dying shows that Xebec had a way to destroy the red line. I think all the slaves would die because the entirety of marie jois was gonna be in the ocean and I think Xebec had a good way to do that. So just for the record, I think Xebec wanted to destroy the red line and didn't care if everyone else who lived there died.

I'm not convinced Xebec needed to cause any havoc other than destroying the red line and all the slaves dying. Still a huge win in my book and I would press that button if it was put in front of me. But I am not normal in that way.

"Furthermore based on what we do know of Xebec we can safely say his goals were not altruistic in the slightest.", can you elaborate on this beyond the fact that we know Garp/Roger teamed up to save slaves?

I think BM has autistic views of deals/justice. A deal is a deal and I think she is incapable of seeing the world any different way. And I think sacrifice for the greater good could be spun as a purity test. She is still a raging maniac at times but I see BM's aspirations as fundamentally good. They are just heavily skewed by the fact that BM is a very flawed person. She makes her good ethics into a bad thing.

Overall I still think what made Xebec such a "bad" guy was his desire to destroy the red line and not minding if every single slave died because of it. Difference of opinion. If we assume that was what was going on, I would have sided with Xebec. FWIW.

[dark palm]

@hushed harness keep #other-series in #other-series

[fleet echo]

dirty mind too over, that looks like the cursed and forbidden pussy to me.

[ancient vault]

yeah im still working on a theory that centers around kaido taking on rocks plan

[ancient vault]

sengoku was talking about the slaves on god valley

[tired osprey]

i dunno what kind of pussies you have seen with teeth and tentacles

[pure raven]

While reading the above theory about skull and 8 bones in the flag i noticed this maybe

That how when you put wg and kozuking clans symbol on top of each other we get 8 bones similar to bb and kaidos flags

[ancient vault]

I doubt you have to mix them or sth

[pure raven]

I mean put on top of each other

[lofty mango]

Wdym by CD btw

[sturdy hound]

celestial dragons

[lofty mango]

Ahh gotcha

Thanks 🙏

[pure raven]

And that imply something or you bringing a coincidence?

[waxen dust]

Everyone’s stretching and none of y’all names Monkey D. Luffy.

[fathom matrix]

I like an idea Totally Not Mark had, where Blackbeard's D initial could represent the dusk, and Luffy's D initial represents the dawn

Not saying that there are 2 actual D names, but what it can be taken as or represent

[pure raven]

People also say black beard is not a D an impostor

[cloud saddle]

Caribou might join Straw Hat Crew
If we go more deep into thinking that Luffy is similar to Jesus, then doesn't he need a Judas in his crew?
https://youtu.be/FTyJsgYdDW4?t=254
So, i've been thinking that the perfect character for taking the role of Judas would be Caribou. There are many theories about why Judas betrayed Jesus. One of them says, that he wanted to gain respect from another, evil god. If Luffy is like Jesus, then this another, evil god in One Piece, could be Black Beard. We all know that Caribou want's something from Black Beard. Some people say, he wanted to kill Luffy, just to gain respect from Black Beard. Isn't it exactly what Judas story is about?

[forest rampart]

Last year, i can't really tell about what's up with BB's jolly roger, but since i've subscribed to the theory that he was from pure three eyed tribe, it does somehow explain the three skulls on his flag, other than it has something to do with his personality.
But yeah, looks like i missed smth about the many bones part on his jolly roger.
So since i thought perhaps it has smth to do with whales other than he doesn't sleep, and will die if he sleep, i thought maybe it is the same as Kaido's JR that perhaps has smth to do with Kaido as a fishman (my theory).

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/477571830941614080/846192254737711109/IMG_20210524_090514.jpg

In general, mammals don't have the best color vision. "There was a time where to be a mammal was to be a small, nocturnal, rodent-like mammal," said Duke's Sonke Johnsen, author of the book, The Optics of Life.

Whales, unlike nocturnal rodents or ourselves, see the world in monochrome. Leo Peichl at the Max Planck Institute for Brain Research co-authored a paper with the nearly tragic title, "For whales and seals the ocean is not blue." Indeed, the first thing that we can know for sure about how** whales see the world is that it exists only in shades of gray**. The water we see as blue they would see as black. "They do want to see the background. They want to see animals on the background. And the animals on the background are reflecting light that's not blue," Johnsen explained. If we try to imagine what that might look like, Johnsen said perhaps we could picture a grayscale photograph of people wearing fluorescent clothes under a black light.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/03/youre-eye-to-eye-with-a-whale-in-the-ocean-what-does-it-see/274448/

Whales and dolphins are mammals and breathe air into their lungs, just like we do. They cannot breathe underwater like fish can as they do not have gills. They breathe through nostrils, called a blowhole, located right on top of their heads.

i think this part explained why there's no gills on BB's JR

https://uk.whales.org/whales-dolphins/how-do-whales-and-dolphins-breathe/

[forest rampart]

Other than actual whales eyes, there's also whales eyes in dogs

What is Whale Eye in Dogs?
"Whale eye" is a term dog trainers use to describe a dog's body language when the whites of his eyes (the sclera) are visible. The dog will avert his head slightly, but his eyes stay fixed on something or someone. The whites of his eyes will appear in a half-moon shape, usually at either the inner or outer side of the eye, but sometimes all around. Whale eye is sometimes called "half-moon eye."

https://www.thesprucepets.com/dog-body-language-whale-eye-1118257

And then, there's Three-Eyed Whale from a certain western game

Whales of the Arctic
The Arctic is home to 17 different species of whales. Belugas, bowheads, and narwhals are the only whales to inhabit Arctic waters all year round. Others, such as the gray whale and humpback whale, migrate to cool Arctic waters during the summer in search of food sources and to give birth.

To add, there's also whales that live in cold regions. And there's that theory/ speculation of Blackbeard came from winter island; a cold region.
But personally, i don't think that BB was from poles, be it South Pole or North Pole.

And also, BB once ride a whale-shaped ship; Whitebeard's ship

https://expeditionsonline.com/blog/whales-arctic

[cloud saddle]

If we go more deep into that, then Straw Hat Crew are the Jesus and 12 apostles, then we have Straw Hat Fleet, that could be called disciples ( Jesus had arround 70 disciples, if im not wrong and Luffy has 7 fleet captains.) and there is one "disciple" that is alone right now. I believe that Bellamy might be the Saint Matthias in One Piece. This is why he didn't join the crew yet, a probably won't join up untill the dead of Judas, that is Caribou. Matthias took the place of Judas, after Judas died. I think this is exactly what's goint to happen. Ofc if we follow this patern.

[pine delta]

What did I just read

[forest rampart]

@cloud saddle Sorry for interfering your theory.
That looks interesting but i don't think Caribou will join SHs. Only Tama will as a true straw hat. Carrot was just tagging along. And Yamato will also tag along with SHs, maybe until Elbaf only since it's probably the last island before Laugh Tale, or maybe Lodestar island but I don't think that Yamato will tag along until Lodestar Island.

[cloud saddle]

Ye ye, their next destination is not Elbaf at all. They will just react to the news, that you frogot about.

[forest rampart]

You think strawhats won't go to Elbaf? And SHs will react to what news?

How are blue, right, fin, sei, humpback, fin whales, the large species found in Antarctica, adapted to survive in the cold oceans?
Whales are not exclusively Antarctic animals but often found in the frigid waters in both north and south polar regions.
Large whales are able to live indefinitely in the coldest seas on earth.

Migration -** Many whales migrate to the polar regions during the summer months of that region**. There are often distinct southern and northern populations of species which go to their respective pole, none go to both poles. They feed continuously during the super-productive summer months and then live entirely on their blubber reserves for about 4 months during the breeding season in warmer waters. Not all individuals migrate however and in recent years, some humpback whales have been found around Antarctica during the winter rather than 7,000km (4,350miles) away off the coast of Africa where they were thought to be.

https://www.coolantarctica.com/Antarctica fact file/wildlife/whales/whales.php

[cloud saddle]

Tama won't join the Straw Hats, she will stay in Wano. I think that there are possibilities that even Yamato and Carrot won't join.

[forest rampart]

That's the only reference that i can find regarding three-eyed whale, so idk from where it came from, thus can't really say the mythology regarding that exists out there.

Anyway what i want to say is that other than BB is a pure three eyed tribe, perhaps he is also related to fishman somehow. i don't really understand about BB and whale thing, but there are different kinds of human tribes out there in this series. There are minks, fishman and merfolk, and etc.
Since we don't have enough info about three-eyed tribe, there's a chance that perhaps the tribe is under fish-man subspecies or smth.
Or at least, perhaps Blackbeard is half three eyed tribe and half fishman.

[ancient vault]

if he was half fishman he should have at least one feature that indicates that. Like the teeth with jack

[forest rampart]

Is there any fishman in Big Mom's family?

Oh there's one. Praline, a mermaid.

[junior cape]

According to Big Mom herself, there were only THREE races not present in Totto Land, one of them being Giants, another being whatever King is (potentially devils? anti-angels? IDK), and the third I believe to be Tontattas, but it's unknown officially.

[amber oar]

Praline, her twin Prim are mermaids, and the second or third youngest child is a fishman

[amber oar]

BM has a tontatta child

[forest rampart]

Any fishman/ merfolk from Charlotte family then?

[junior cape]

I see. Then it's not the Tontattas

[amber oar]

I was wrong, 5th youngest son is a fishman
and the next daughter is a tontatta

[forest rampart]

What about Katakuri, Oven and Daifuku? To which race do they belong?

[junior cape]

Katakuri is a certified fishman hybrid, oven is a certified Large Lad (tm)

[cloud saddle]

Also, even in Buddhism there is a disciple that betrayed Budda. Budda had Ten Principal Disciples and just like in Christianism, the last disciple betrayed him. In Christianism it was the 12th Judas and in Buddhism there it was the 10th Principal Disciple, Devadatta. I don't know about other religions, but in these 2 exaples, the last one was always a traitor.

As of now, it is not clear if Luffy will stick to 10 members and will add just one or if he will get more then 10 ( since Yamato and Carrot tcheoreticall could both join, that would make 11 "disciples", leaving us with 1 left).

The point is, the last one person who will join the Crew, either number 10 ( 11 total) or 12 (13 total), will be a traitor.

[ancient vault]

@cloud saddle repost your entire theory in one flow without anyone interrupting

When you have it written it out, finished

If you want to post your theory have it finished already and ask others to refrain from posting for a minute

[forest rampart]

Do you remember from where this info was from? Like SBS, Vivre Card, Databook or magazine. I don't think wiki have it.

[junior cape]

You know what maybe whatever happened to God Valley was due to the Darkness-Darkness Fruit, like a previous user sucked it up and then just dusted the seafloor with it

[junior cape]

Pretty sure it was revealed in his backstory that he was part eel-fishman

[ancient vault]

What no Katakuri isnt a fishman hybrid

[junior cape]

no? I thought he was

[ancient vault]

That was never said

[junior cape]

I guess you're right

[forest rampart]

Perhaps you meant this: I found it from Daifuku wiki

He also got along with his brothers, Oven and Katakuri, and he never scorned Katakuri for his eel-like mouth.[12]

[junior cape]

Must have confused it because of his pelican eel mouth, yeah. Wikis specifically call it out as one of his nicknames, Pelican Eel

[forest rampart]

I thought that if Katakuri, Oven and Daifuku are fishman hybrid, it would give a chance for other fishman to have human like feature: without fangs, horns, different skin colors, etc.

But since there's already a fishman hybrid from Charlotte family, the one that Jugol posted, this chance has been reduced to zero then.

[junior cape]

Idk why that would be the case. Big Mom is willing to let ANYONE in, as long as they're willing to have a sacrificial marriage

[forest rampart]

Idk if it was explained or not but I think that perhaps each of her children are from different races.

[junior cape]

Remember Big Mom has 85 kids, and a majority of them are ostensibly human or human-variate. She isn't picky about which race the father is, just what they can bring to HER TABLE. It would make no sense for her to only have 1 of each kind.

[forest rampart]

Well if those trio turns out to be half fishman, at least that would increase a chance for that BB is a half fishman theory.

[cloud saddle]

So to summarize my theory:
The last person that will join the crew, either 10th nakama or 12th, will be a traitor. This person will be considered the real Straw Hat Crew Member for some time, until he betrays them and leave the crew. After that, the "REAL" last nakama will apear and will take the place that the traitor left behind.

In Buddhism there is a disciple that betrayed Budda. Budda had Ten Principal Disciples and just like in Christianism, the last disciple betrayed him. In Christianism it was the 12th apostle, Judas and in Buddhism there it was the 10th Principal Disciple, Devadatta. I don't know about other religions, but in these 2 examples, the last one was always a traitor. Also in both religions, after both traitors betrayed, there was someone that took the place of traitors the, as the 10th Principal Disciple of Budda or 12 apostle of Jesus. In Buddhism it was Ānanda and in Christianism it was Matthias.

As of now, it is not clear if Luffy will stick to 10 members and will add just one or if he will get more then 10 ( since Yamato and Carrot tcheoreticall could both join, that would make 11 "disciples", leaving us with 1 left).

The point is, the last one person who will join the Crew, either number 10 ( 11 total) or 12 (13 total), will be a traitor.

So as of now I can think about 3 posibilities when it comes to the last "nakama"

1. Caribou - If he joins, then he could posibly betray SHC, it wouldn't be a surprise that he would do that for the sake of Black Beard
2. X Drake - If he joins, then he could betray as well, for the sake of Marines and WG
   3)** Ceasar (Gastino)** - If he joins he could just betray them for the sake of **himself **( he will just do anything to survive)

---

Then who will be the true last nakama? I don't realy know, it is harder to predict, then to predict who will be the traitor.

[waxen dust]

I don’t think this theory will apply to the Strawhats, if anything I can see a traitor happening in Blackbeard’s crew especially whoever is the last Titanic.

[modest skiff]

I honestly don’t think it’s a given there will be a traitor

The way some people frame it as a guarantee seems weird to me

[waxen dust]

Yeah, more so I can personally see a traitor on BB’s crew just based on how he recruits them and doesn’t seem to have genuine bonds with his crewmates. It would be more fitting if the last Titanic betrays BB for the sake of Luffy’s benefit. Teach will get a taste of his own medicine, especially when he betrayed WB

[crude ridge]

Guys, can a mink have a child with a human?

[grizzled fog]

I don’t see why not. We know hybrids can exist between races already.

Big pan, chimney, I guess Charlotte Normande too

[dusky acorn]

Yeah I mean, even the Beast and Big Mom Pirates have had plenty people who turned and ended up helping the Straw Hats cause. Pekoms, Bege and his crew, Pudding, Drake, Yamato, etc. Besides a commander, Moria is easily someone I can see betraying their crew and is simply biding his time for now, given the circumstances he may have joined the crew on. Beyond just significant characters, a wide-scale falling out for the Blackbeard Pirates could paint an interesting picture about how he lacked as a captain.

I think it could be presented differently than what the Beast Pirates showed us on Wano, as it wasn't really Kaido's own fault that so much of his crew betrayed him. It was Queen and Tama's doing.

For Gastinoo's theory, Caribou is someone I can see betraying Luffy's trust since he was gullible enough to believe he's a 'changed man' now, but I don't think it will come from the original basis of having been a Straw Hat. I think Caribou at best will be a tagalong again, then as you say he runs for Blackbeard or some other antagonist. It's only fitting to put his ancient weapon knowledge to the test if he still has ill intents.

I wonder how being a half-mink would effect their electro and sulong duration. I suppose each might be weaker/shorter

[modest skiff]

Based on what we have seen, I think every single life form can mix with every single other one lol

[queen arrow]

not every single life form

i don't think humans can reproduce with Island Whales for example

but overall, the humanoid/human-like races can reproduce with one another

[amber oar]

We haven't seen a mink hybrid yet, however there's a suspicious Big Mom daughter with reindeer horns

That's her only manga apparition. There's also a sketch

Wonder if she's half mink, or just another !horns instance

[modest skiff]

Gonna be honest, I still squint my eyes at !horns. I do not trust Oda. Not one bit. That sneaky devil.

[grizzled fog]

Tbf most horns we see are different from that. Those look like straight up moose or reindeer antlers, I’d be more inclined to believe that means something than the run of the mill devil horns we keep seeing

[hollow basin]

Likelihood of Chopper making Yamato a Rumble Ball if he joins SH? 😮

[weary cliff]

I bet Oda makes up some reason why it doesn't work. That's a hang up I have about him joining, don't want him chomping the zoan flavor away from Chopper. So I bet they keep Yamato's mythical stuff and Chopper's multiple forms separate

[fathom matrix]

Do you think there's ever gonna be a moment, where the strawhats make another plan, and they go "Ok, everyone understands the plan?" and Luffy goes "HEY, YOU DIDN'T TELL ME!" but Zoro or nami just says "we don't bother including you anymore, because we know you're going to ignore the plan, shout the bad guy's name and run off, and if we try and stop you, it's going to waste time" but Luffy pokes at the floor going "I'm the captain, so I should be included anyways"

I legit think this may happen

[waxen dust]

That basically happened in Film Gold lol

[fathom matrix]

and wano

In fact, water 7 too

[waxen dust]

I mean it seems like most plans involving Luffy is always to take into the equation that Luffy is unpredictable so no reason to involve him in them

I actually think there will be a time in the future where Luffy will successfully follow a plan, but it’s got to be during an extremely dire moment

[fathom matrix]

I think a more light hearted version, could be they make a plan, Luffys shouts "WHAT ABOUT ME?" but they say "....go off an kick his ass, that's what you're best at"

[pure raven]

Is anyone else kinda disappointed how the Yonko commanders are falling?

[dusky acorn]

I assume you mean the Flying 6?

Well, the only one I can really call 'disappointing' is Page 1, but he already got to show off before the raid even started. It's not like I was expecting him to play one of the most major roles out of his group

And his finishing blow was against an Emperor... so yeah. The real sad part about it was Usopp potentially losing his main foe, if he doesn't get back up

[pure raven]

I just expected more hype and struggle when taking down a Yonko crew. They way they go down is a joke compared to Whitebeard's crew going toe to toe with the Marines. I'm not saying the SH isn't strong enough yet to take them down, I just wanted a bit more fight in them. Water 7 & Alabasta had a more "Can we really win this battle" atmosphere than against the Flying Six. Kaido is well beyond my expectation though, no criticism about him.

[covert hazel]

I think that's pretty fair

SHs are just stronger than we expected, and the fights being relegated to only 1 chapter don't let a lot of tension build up. Though, they have been fighting for quite a while at this point but SHs were just holding a stalemate

[pure raven]

Yeah, maybe Oda is trying to keep the arc from getting longer than it is

[dusky acorn]

Well, if I'm being honest some of the Whitebeard Commanders didn't end up going out in the best of ways either. Jozu went down to Aokiji while being offguard, Marco was cuffed under the same circumstances, for a large portion of the war.

As opposed to much of the hecticness of Marineford, these Flying Six fights seem to be getting thorough, dedicated screentime. It's something many of those commanders weren't able to have, with much constant switching between scenes during the war

I agree Jinbei mowed quite easily through his fight, but that was expected for me, unless Who's Who identity turned out to be huge like a former Warlord or something. He still gave us a pretty interesting fight for who he was though

Sasaki was more difficult to get through than WW, and we're still holding our breath for Maria

[surreal isle]

Whos who is a former CP agent ryt?? And i think same skillsets as Rob Lucci(maybe even stronger), so maybe thisll be Jimbei's tough fight, but it is said thaT Whos Who may not survive bevause hes up against Jimbei, Its a tough call since Whos Who hasnt really shown us what hes capable off

[covert hazel]

Yeah Jozu and Marco did sorta get fucked at MF, but these are proper duels. The main problem I see is there wasn't enough time to think SHs might lose in their duels (even though they obviously won't). Franky had the best fight cos there was a proper low point, though it only lasted a couple panels so it didn't have much time to sink in, P1 and Ulti ironically pressed the SHs the most but they got fucked over but it fits within the context of BM and showing off Nami's upgrade though still disappointing they didn't do more (yet).

That being said, I really do like both of the Jimbei, Franky fights. Fast paced and exciting

I'm talking about him getting KOed by Kuzan

[quaint relic]

Can we discuss theories outside of chapter 1019 here ?

If so, hear me out

[velvet edge]

Yea for sure. 1019 is just since spoilers are out so peeps don’t post 1020 or further content

[quaint relic]

Zoro has CoCting. Throughout the series, we see Zoro using a very particular type of Haki and that's been exploited a lot on the rooftop. With Flaming dragon blaze, Black rope tornado, and finally...Ashura. When He cut Kaido with his blades and made a wound, we can see some aura like pattern emanating out of Kaido's body

[frozen birch]

was really hoping the Franky fight would lead us to finding out that Sasaki was Kokoro's son

i suppose there's still a chance for it

[quaint relic]

Which brings me to my next point. Kaido touched his wound while trembling and asked Zoro if he had Conqueror's Haki which means he felt Zoro's Conqueror after Zoro attacked him. Attacked him with what, you say ? His blades. But if he used Conqueror Haki and Kaido felt it with his blades ? That must mean Zoro used Conqueror Haki with his blades, right ? Precisely. Therefore, CoC coating.

Kaido even noted that his wound will remain with him for a long time

Who scarred Kaido first ? Oden. Could Oden use CoC coating ? Of course not. But he was a ln extremely proficient advanced armament Haki user which allowed him to scar Kaido. He even though 9 different people how to use his technique. 9 people couldn't do what Oden did tho even if they used his technique

But Zoro did use advance armament Haki because he was able to Injure Kaido with his black rope tornado attack he did to him. Oden's sword, Enma, draws a lot of its user's haki. Perhaps it played a role into Zoro using conqueror's Haki into his blades

[ancient vault]

I think its mainly ashura

And not enma that played a role in the COC part

[quaint relic]

Yes, ashura

Ashura might be a booster

[modest skiff]

I see it as nothing more than Oda doing an extremely good job at consistent power scaling and world building. Based on what we know, none of the yonko commanders should be worth Luffy's time at this point. King feels like the only one worth Zoro's time.

[quaint relic]

Ashura IS a booster

[modest skiff]

When Ashura was first shown, I was 100% sure it was actually just a preview of something to come much later. Headcanon for me was that Zoro managed to do something that is wildly uncommon by just kind of trying

[cold urchin]

if carrot join
i think chopper will make a similliar to rumble ball for her to transform sulong without see full moon

[stuck ore]

What if a logia df user eat rumble ball?

[fleet echo]

dunno. bigger element output... maybe? then again, in one piece, we have no concrere "limits" for most devil fruits. luffy's reach is "72 gum gum" but without knowing what a "gum-gum" measurement is... we have no idea

weird thought/theory of the day. was Garp also Raised by Carmel? It could explain somewhat his dedication for the marines

[visual furnace]

This could be the 3rd admiral's devil fruit
Bull-bull no mi model:forest bull (mythical)
His nickname the green bull might come from him being the forest bull
And we already have one of the each type of df with the admirals except for a zoan type I.e fujitora (Paramecia), kizaru (logia) so it would be only correct for teh last one to be a zoan
The wiki also states
"The Troglodytae (cave-dwellers), a nearby tribe, supposedly "judged [this] to be the king of beasts, and rightly so, for it possesses the courage of a lion, the speed of a horse, the strength of a bull, and is stronger than iron."
So considering this it will a strong devil fruit strong enough for a admiral
Any thoughts?

Srry for any bad English

[split ledge]

Any theories on luffy acquiring a new weapon..??

[smoky belfry]

am sorry i thught this was spoilers section

[pseudo citrus]

misclick gambit

[smoky belfry]

yas and it is irritating when it occurs

anyone think that luffy gonna meet roger at da moon ?

itz a strong theory

[grizzled fog]

Can I ask what you define a strong theory as

[fleet echo]

I dunno, so far the admirals aren't "red dog", "yellow monkey", "Purple Tiger", "Blue Pheasant" and so on, it would be odd if green bull ends up being a green bull

[pure raven]

Orange lion coming soon

[ancient vault]

Greenbull is ugly is a strong theory

[visual furnace]

UK such dumb theories can get u punished check the channel description

[visual furnace]

The forest bull is supposed to be red in colour

[light pond]

So far most of oda's mythical zoans are based on japanese lores i dont quite see a ethiopian myth getting mixed in there randomly also it seems ryokugyu not eating for 3 years is related to his df still gonna go with plant based fruit

[pure raven]

More Asian and Buddhist mythical creature not Japanese

Japanese have yokai

[light pond]

Didnt japanese have daibutsu in myths too? Even so same concept applies i dont see ethopian mytha randomly appearing specially not so known myths from them

Also oda specifically uses daibutsu rather than buddha which is clearly japanese

[weary cliff]

This is a strange distinction to make, since they all have relevance in Japan anyways. A myth doesn't have to originate in Japan to be considered Japanese culture

[modest skiff]

Eh, mythology doesn't end up belonging to a single country. Once everyone loves and enjoys a story, it no long has an owner. It is a part of the culture of everyone who enjoys it

[amber oar]

Marco is a mixup between the Fenghuang and the western Phoenix

[modest skiff]

Since a lot of theories seem to rely on extremely rigid adherence to existing mythology, I think this point is important for people to notice. Same with history.

"But King Louis the 4th didn't have red hair, that theory doesn't make ANY sense" lmao

[amber oar]

yup, like Koido.

It makes for a good meme but the notion that Kaido started off as a carp doesn't have any substance

[sand sail]

There are very few mythological things in One Piece that aren't in Japan directly, and pretty much none from Wano so far

"Asian and buddhist" applies to Japan directly lol

[modest skiff]

Yeah I kinda didn't wanna touch that with a 10 ft pole just in case there was some kinda yikes perspective underneath

[radiant quarry]

in the kaido backstory I'm going to go on a whim and assume either 1)kaidos wife was a pirate word got out to marines of their relationship and she got captured and kaido surrendered himself to have her free but somehow she died and it broke kaidos will

[modest skiff]

If Kaido blamed himself for Yamato's mother's death, it would help explain the potential that he has raised Yamato to eventually kill him

[radiant quarry]

and it would explain why he wanted to kill himself

[modest skiff]

I'm not convinced he wanted to kill himself because he had better ways to do it easily. I don't buy the idea that he saw self-kill as a legitimate option

Based on what we know now, there's no conceivable way Kaido thought it was even 3% possible he would die from jumping off clouds

[sand sail]

Kaido's will is far from broken here too

[radiant quarry]

kaido is such a mystery because there's so many routes to go with his backstory

[sand sail]

Nah, doing what he did would be fatal to most of the world, it makes sense for him to try

[modest skiff]

Maybe, but I don't think so. My thing is that there are too many easier ways to die with a better guaranteed outcome. If his goal was as simple as dying, he had other ways. His goal is more complex than that

Well I guess if he assumed he'd land in water, and it was just really bad luck he landed on land, maybe it was an ok plan?

[pure raven]

That's what I also meant not the other way around

[sand sail]

His goal seems to be a death worth dying, not just death in general. He really doesn't have too many other ways it seems. Besides maybe eating another devil fruit, even drowning is arguable given the nature of his fruit

But his insides aren't invulnerable like his scales, falling from 10,000 meters would have been fatal no matter what kind of defenses he has lol

Unfortunately, he's just too tough in general for it to have done it. But having diamond hard scales wasn't going to stop the impact, would've actually made it worse thinking about it

So he did want to see if it would kill him, but yeah it was silly for him to think there was much chance of it.

[modest skiff]

This has been my perspective too. And that is why him jumping off a cliff made zero sense. I honestly think he jumped off that cliff for a totally unrelated reason to dying.

[sand sail]

But by that same token, recall, it's out of boredom that he even tries. These aren't like sincere need to end it today attempts

No, it's related to dying, it's just he does this when he gets bored. Remember, the narrator introduces this as his hobby, and he complains about boredom at the end of that chapter. His overall goal is something deeper, but he does try to kill himself when he's just got nothing to do it looks like

[dry frigate]

Yo

[modest skiff]

I dunno, the whole thing just doesn't make enough sense. In the past, when a character just "doesn't add up" or doesn't make sense in some way, we ALWAYS end up learning something about them later, so I am just kinda waiting for the Kaido flash back lol

[modest skiff]

True, I guess the narration really did drive it home...just still seems weird...arg...

If Kaido had a deeper purpose and wanted to meet Joyboy and perhaps even wanted to meet Joyboy for a purpose deeper than dying in glorious battle (I still think Kaido only took over Wano so he could die by Joyboy's hand)

[sand sail]

It's just not like a hard goal for him there, based on what we were told in...1008, was it? When he spoke with the scabbards, he wants to die because there's some peak of perfection he believes he'd be able to reach doing it. Or, maybe even he wants to fight people who are forced into that so he can get the greatest fights of all time or something, little ambiguous but most people take it to lean toward his suicide more so than away from it.

Yeh maybe, he might be trying to encounter Joyboy, or he might be trying to be Joyboy. Either way, it seems his goal is more about being big than being sure

[modest skiff]

My spitball theories regarding his intentions, in "most likely true" order

1. wants to die in glorious combat to the world's most powerful man, which he for some reason understands to be "Joyboy", but he doesn't know many details. Went to Wano because he learned from someone or something that Joyboy will save Wano some day. So if Kaido shits on Wano, waits, eventually Joyboy will shit on Kaido.

2. wants to "fight" Joyboy because he actually has a plot to capture Joyboy to get either a thing or information out of Joyboy

3. Kaido basically gets increasingly strong the stronger his opponent and the longer the fight. Kaido's goal is really just to get as strong as possible and he needs Joyboy's strength to fight against to reach it. My only real support for (3) is that Kaido has been captured an amazing amount of times but not died. Suspicious.

[grand walrus]

this is not a new theory but proof for an old one about joyboy being the person who frees people and brings music and dancing:
in chapter 649 we get the joy boy reveal. it is called "the dancing of the breams and plaices" in that chapter slaves are freed, and they go to a party where singing and music is the topic of conversation.
basically the point of this post is to argue that chapter 649 is further evidence of the association if joyboy with freedom and singing and dancing.

bonus (reaching) sun god tie in: kami is in the cover page

[grand walrus]

i like this because the old 3 admirals were all logia but that is too boring now i think so now we have one logia one paramecia and the third being a zoan makes sense

[stuck ore]

*Looks at third one

Kaido is a saiyan confirmed

[visual furnace]

Ikr logia is not the same level as before nowadays many zoan and Paramecia are better

Since haki

[grand walrus]

maybe the slaves of the world government are the people who know the most about joy boy since they have an unbroken line from the lost century. if you think about it the world nobles have had slaves nonstop since void century and doesnt care what they talk about to each other since they are meant to work and die without leaving

[modest skiff]

Hadn't considered that, good thought

[weary cliff]

It's possible someone like that exists, however it's more likely they just come from the slave trade around Saboady

[sand sail]

There doesn't seem to be a lineage of slaves yeh, they outsource all of them so far

[grand walrus]

yeah but stories can still be passed down... instead of parent to child it is senior to junior

not saying they have a clear history but maybe they have some mythology

[weary cliff]

I wonder if the Boa sisters will have anything to add, in that case

[sand sail]

They might yeh, they may even have the Nika legend getting passed around up here

[modest skiff]

I suppose you're right that a hidden culture could have formed among slaves. But based on the lives the slaves lived, I think its possible they aren't even permitted to gather

[sand sail]

That's also probably why Fisher Tiger chose to turn the hooves into suns. If the legend was going around up there, he'd have heard it while he was a slave

[weary cliff]

Feels likely at this point. WW seemed to strike a nerve with Jinbei when he alluded to the sun connection

[modest skiff]

Turn hooves into suns? Did I miss something?

[weary cliff]

The CD brand and the Sun Pirate symbol

[grand walrus]

it also makes sense that the giants would have a better record of history since they are only removed by a few generations. if a giant can be 300 years old then it is possible someones grandfather was alive during lost century

[modest skiff]

Yeah I'm still a firm believer that giants have all history in tact

[sand sail]

When Fisher Tiger escaped from the Celestial Dragons and got back to start pirating against them, he took the rescued slaves from the dragons and erased their hoof marks, the hoof of the flying dragon, and rebranded to make a sun over them instead

He did it to himself as well, and the Sun Pirates were made from that rebranding

[modest skiff]

Right, gotcha, thank you. I forgot it started as hooves. Thank you!

[amber oar]

also not all the Sun Pirates were slaves (ex. Jinbe), but all of them decided to take the mark to erase distinctions

[modest skiff]

love that

[amber oar]

now I remember, Koala has the Sun Pirates mark too https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/onepiece/images/a/a3/Tiger_marks_Koala.png/revision/latest?cb=20121001085129

[grand walrus]

maybe like how the WG erased rocks, they erased joyboy, and now only the smallest amount of information is remembered from that time. It is curious that the sun god is worshipped by mainly countries that have been outside of world government jurisdiction

[sand sail]

Yeh, only Fisher Tiger was a slave if I'm not mistaken?

But they all took it

[modest skiff]

Yeah my rough estimation/theory is that towards the end of the void century, everyone was kind of a mess and so they decided to make "peace'ish" with Wano, Elbaf and others. Like it appears the war wasn't ever fully resolved. But who knows, lots of stuff also makes that seem less true. I have no idea.

[modest skiff]

For some reason I have it in my head that he freed some fish people and they joined him

[grizzled fog]

He did. A number of them were slaves iirc. The point of the brand was so that they couldn’t tell who

Also “fish people”

[amber oar]

Aladine was slave

[modest skiff]

sorry its early in the morning and I'm still in my lazy wording phase of the day

[grizzled fog]

Hatchan wasn’t right?

[sand sail]

Ah was he? Yeh that makes sense then, most of them probably weren't but plenty of fishmen were still sold into slavery back then

[amber oar]

Arlong teases him with that

[split stone]

Theory based on what I saw at EP 940: Maybe Chinmey's (Kokoro's granddaughter, from w7) rabbit ate a SMILE that's why he's always smiling

[dusky acorn]

Gonbe, you say? Well, I'll give you credit that it usually has a wide grin that's reminiscent of SMILE users, but it's still been shown frowning before

And Killer proved the grins stay in effect even while submerged in water, just in case someone thought that wouldn't be the case for any reason

[low heart]

ANY theory about the apple that turned into a df in punk hazard?

I hope bb don't get his hands on it at least

[queen arrow]

we know what that fruit is

[low heart]

wym so anyone who eats it can turn to that pink weird thing or produce gaz?

[queen arrow]

it's Smiley's fruit, the Sala-Sala Fruit Model: Axolotl

the pink weird thing was a poison that ate a zoan devil fruit

any person who eats it would just get the power to turn in to an Axolotl

[low heart]

i see but what if it was eaten by a human

someone gotta eat it eventually that's what i mean..it can be really powerful

shit turn ppl to stone just like boa does

[queen arrow]

they would just turn in to an Axolotl

the thing that made it dangerous wasn't the fruit

it was the fact that it was a living poison

[low heart]

ohh so it's just a zoan type now i'm not interested lol

how the hell roger crew and garp stood up to rocks pirates in that war shit feels crazy with that kinda line up rocks had

[queen arrow]

they weren't as strong as they are now

[modest skiff]

Look at how Luffy grew in 5 years. Presumably other characters also grow, though clearly not at the same rate

[low heart]

that makes a lot of sense now but when was whitebeard at his peak ? was it when he became a captain?

ik whitebeard was stronger than he is when he died , makes u think if big mom lost her shine too now

[modest skiff]

We'll likely never know the answer to this question. Maybe we can assume when he fought Roger on that island during the Oden flashback. That's gonna be our best guess tbh

Also I don't think there was a time when BM was stronger than she is now. She does not show any signs of age that I am remembering. She's old, but we don't have reason to think she's past her prime

[low heart]

ahh yeah i think WB only got weaker bc he was in the verge of death big mom takes years from others bc of her ability that's why she lives longer

HOLD on she adds it to her own life span right?

[modest skiff]

We have no indication it increases her life, I think?

I’m not 100% sure but I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong

[low heart]

WAIT IS Brook is immortal too?

[modest skiff]

I don't think Immortal is the right word but it does not appear he will ever die of natural causes

[low heart]

yeah i meant if he isn't gonna die by aging

i've seen theories that luffy's mom is the one the world government were kneeling to in reverie how tf they came up with that

[amber oar]

how tf they came up with that
The same way others came up with "Crocodile is Luffy's mom and Ivankov transitioned him". The real reason is that, from their perspective, "someone has to be Luffy's mom".

Disregarding that Oda already pointed out Luffy's biological mother is not relevant, and his mom by all accounts is Dadan

[modest skiff]

The thing that makes me squint my eyes is why bother having his mom be unknown for so long. There were easy ways to make it not a mystery

[amber oar]

the question isn't whether Oda has reasons to hide her, but whether Oda has reasons to show her

[modest skiff]

It would make more sense if Luffy had no sign of parents or lineage or anything. The fact that we know Dragon is a very unique individual sure does make me wonder who he had a child with

[pliant sapphire]

I don’t think joyboy got one peace

[waxen dust]

I am sure Luffy’s mom will be revealed as we go further into the story, but it’ll happen once we get some revelations about Dragon. I definitely think she’s got some importance, Oda tends steer people away from certain trails of thought for the sake of no one figuring things out.

[modest skiff]

Yes, I see Luffy's mom as important to Dragon's story more than Luffy's

[queen arrow]

no

the Soul-Soul Fruit is incapable of putting souls/lifespan in to people, it can only be put in objects and animals

[brave bolt]

[split stone]

That's a very good Fruit, the person's natural Regen would be very very faster, and he could Regen his arms, legs, limbs... In a single night. Perfect for mid-term swordsmans

[queen arrow]

idk much about Axolotl, but if they have good regenerative abilities then i guess so

[dark palm]

yeah, they do

they have really shit lungs though, so you'd have to hope your hybrid form lets you breathe

[quaint relic]

My theory, ryokugyu has eaten the bullfrog fruit hence the name, green bull. Frogs are green, and bullfrog has the word "bull" in it

[ancient vault]

Bro is just ugly

[waxen dust]

Ryokugyu confirmed as Duval

[quaint relic]

What if his bullfrog fruit is actually a smile and that's why he's always in frog form ?

[ancient vault]

An admiral with a smile

[small pasture]

is akainu the leader of SWORD ?

[waxen dust]

no he’s the leader of FIST

[quaint relic]

And he might have the same personality with Sanji. Sanji is a creep with women, that's why women avoid him, but he isn't ugly. He's quite handsome

@ancient vault

[grizzled fog]

Drake is.

[ember trench]

Brook still has a natural lifespan as a skeleton

Eventually it will run out and he will die

[quaint relic]

No, he cannot. He doesn't have organs so he can't die from organ failure

So he is technically immortal

[ember trench]

Yeh he also doesn’t have organs to eat and shit but he does lol. He said it himself in Thriller Bark that he has a lifespan which he doesn’t know will last long enough for him to recover his shadow.

It’s a second life not immortality

[waxen dust]

iirc Brook eats food and it goes into his stomach, so he has to have some kind of physical capabilities. Dude even runs out of stamina so he has flaws like an ordinary human

[quaint relic]

He did ? Hmmmm. How old is Brook ?

[grizzled fog]

About 90

[quaint relic]

So he still has a lot of years to live

If he can live up to 140ish like kureha

[waxen dust]

the fruit doesn’t give you immortality it’s just gives you a second life. The Ope Ope is more likely to grant immortality if the eternal youth surgery is more than just maintaining age.

[grizzled fog]

Well ordinarily with the fruit you wouldn’t be brought back as a skeleton. Brook is special

[quaint relic]

Yeah but still, I don't see Brook dying from natural causes and he fights very well for someone old like him. Maybe Brook just exaggerated since he seems full of life right now. He probably said what he said because he felt depressed

[waxen dust]

yeah correct, his body just rotted away because Brook’s soul took too long to find his body

[waxen dust]

tbh I wouldn’t be surprised if he dies because his Devil Fruit becomes nullified or stolen. But I do think Brook’s had enough tragedy in his life to suffer another gruesome death.

[ember trench]

His second life is finite

Being a skeleton doesn’t really matter.

[quaint relic]

The only one that can nullify his powers is Blackbeard. Keep Brook away from Blackbeard and he is immortal

[quaint relic]

He was exaggerating

[ember trench]

Lol no

[quaint relic]

He never brought that up after he joined the strawhats

[ember trench]

Why would he? It never came up... But we know his second life will eventually end.

It’s not immortality. He gets to live a second life after death.

[forest rampart]

I wanna drop a long theory soon if that's okay with you guys

[quaint relic]

Sure

[ember trench]

Thars what the channel is for

[forest rampart]

ok

[quaint relic]

[forest rampart]

 “ : “ is explanation and theories```

**Location of Laugh Tale** (part two)
ーーーーーーーーーーーーーーー
ーーーーーーーーーーーーーーー

**Table of Content :**

**Raftel is the Ancient Kingdom**
**Some Parallels of Raftel with Other Islands**
　**1. Reverse Mountain (Raftel) & its Parallels to Second Half of Red Line**
　**2. Raftel (Reverse Mountain) & its Parallels to Wano (Japan)**
　The Map of Reverse Mountain and Location of Raftel
　**3. Explanation on the meaning of “can’t see”, “unseen”, “invisible”.**
　　**3.1 Clouds**
　　　**Fun Facts**
　　**3.2 Heavy Fog/Mist**
**Location of Raftel, Anime Opening, and Kozuki’s Emblem**
　**A Trivia**
The Map of Reverse Mountain and Location of Raftel
**Coloring Comparisons of the Sea of Raftel in Crocus’ Panel**
**Trivia**
**Going to Raftel**
**Other Reasons of Why Raftel is on The Red Line**
**Some Counter Arguments for Other Possibilities**
**Things That I’m Not Sure About**
**Conclusion**


ーーーーーーーーーーーーーーー
ーーーーーーーーーーーーーーー

**Raftel is the Ancient Kingdom**

In part one:
[#manga-theories message](/guild/164970986284777473/channel/477571830941614080/)

ーーーーーーーーーーーーーーー

**Some Parallels of Raftel with Other Islands**

**1. Reverse Mountain (Raftel) & its Parallels to Second Half of Red Line**

- Both RM and the second half of RL have a climate of winter island.
　- Reverse Mountain is a winter island.
　- Red Line is a collection of interlocking islands. The location under Marijoa, Fishman Island, has a climate of a severely cold winter island region (but it is not a winter island, maybe... or Oda will reveal more about it to us later who knows).

- Both Reverse Mountain and the location of Marijoa to FMI have a downward current due to the climate of winter island around their area.

• Both are surrounded by clouds (refer to the images I’ve posted in 3.1 under Fun Facts section below and compare for yourself).
  　: This makes me think if Raftel is on the top of Red Line/RM instead of underneath it.

2. Raftel (Reverse Mountain) & its Parallels to Wano (Japan)

• Both Wano and Japan are based on a collection of islands.
  　: Wano is based on Japan (heavy Japanese theme in the arc).
• Reverse Mountain is a collection of “some islands”.
  　: Red Line is a collection of interlocking islands.
  　: This image makes it’s clear that Raftel is indeed an island despite being “a part of Red Line”.

[Stretch alert; because we never see a red line being referred to as an island]
　Also, Reverse Mountain are divided into five parts, with three parts that can be considered as real islands: number 1, 4 and 5.
　- Islands number 4 and 5 are Twin Capes.
　: Island number 1 is where I suspected Raftel to be.

Another image that shows Reverse Mountain consisted of few islands.
　: Again, X is the location where I suspect Raftel to be.

3. Explanation on the meaning of “can’t see”, “unseen”, “invisible”.

Lets revise these pictures and words first.

• “There is a point where all three needles point you to the same location!! However, on yougara travels, you have already begun the next adventure.”
• “Normally... It is when you reach the log’s end point that you come to a REALIZATION...
  About the mystery of the ancient writing on the ponegliffs!!! And the civilization that gave birth to them... And the existence of Raftel, the final unseen island!! From that point, Roger started his adventure anew.”, Inuarashi.
  　: Unseen island or invisible island, both give the same meaning.

3.1 Clouds

Theory: Invisible Raftel means that it is too high to be seen, and is covered by clouds.

• At RM; Luffy said, "There's the mystery mountain!! It's huge! That's the red line. The summit is lost in the clouds.".
  　: Strawhats can't see the top of Red Line at Reverse Mountain because the summit is past the clouds.

• Zou is an island that has flourished amid the clouds atop a giant elephant's back.

• When Strawhats were climbing Zunesha, Luffy said “Still can't see the top.”, and asked “How did Sanji's group climb up here?”
  　: The huge size and high height of Zunesha make it was impossible for Luffy to see Zou Island that is located on the top of it.

• When Strawhats arrived at the second half of RL, Chopper said, "I can't see the top!! This thing is huge!!!". Nami; “We have to be extra careful. The sacred land of Marijoa, home of navy headquarters is really close by.”
  　: Same with the Red Line of RM, Strawhats also can't see the top of the second half of Red Line nearby the Mariejoa. The Red Line is too high for Mariejois to be visible and Strawhats can’t even see a silhouette of Mariejois.
  　: Also, Zou and Zunesha’s height are about the same height as the Red Line’s height (please refer to the Fun Fact below).

This made me think if there’s also something, somewhere on the top of RM’s Red Line. By looking at how it was with all the other locations above, I’m pretty sure there must be something on the RM’s area. So a thought that come to mind is instead of Raftel is in the sea, perhaps it is on the Reverse Mountain/ Red Line.

Fun Facts:

• Zunesha is 35km.
• Red Line from FMI to sea surface: 10km.
• Red Line from sea surface to Mariejoa: Xkm (I think it is unknown since I can’t find any info on this one)
• From Blue Sea to White White Sea on Skypiea is 10km.
• White Seas: 7km.
  　: So, Zunesha is slightly higher than the White Seas. That should explained why its favorite food is apple from sky island/s.

: Since we don’t know the value of X, I’ll assume it is about 10km for now considering how Zou is amid the clouds, just like Mariejoa, and also Reverse Mountain.

Back to Raftel again;

• In Zou Arc, Inuarashi said, “...and the existence of Raftel, the final unseen island.”
  　: While there could be another high places like Zou, one need to keep in mind of the Zunesha’s height that might be about the second half of RL’s height.
  　: Since Raftel could be somewhere nearby the Reverse Mountain because it is the final island, why not we try to see if it is on that Red Line of RM or not instead.
  　: What’s more, that location would be perfect to allow one to travel into Paradise side of Grand Line again:

3.2 Heavy Fog/Mist

Invisible Raftel could also mean that it is covered by mist.
　It could be that Raftel is shrouded in heavy mist just like Zou and Thriller Bark that it would take a while for one to notice the presence of the islands (and TB’s ship).

• Thriller Bark was covered by heavy fog, making it’s difficult for Strawhats to notice the island/ ship.
• Zou was also covered by heavy mist, that it takes a while for Strawhats to notice the elephant, Zunesha.
• So perhaps, Raftel's image is shrouded in the mist instead of clouds in both Crocus and Inuarashi's panels (scroll up, I don’t want to re-post).

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Location of Raftel, Anime Opening, and Kozuki’s Emblem

A Trivia:
The canals between the Reverse Mountain forms an X mark.

[Stretch alert]
In anime opening 15, we can see a jolly roger bones intersect with the image of Reverse Mountain in which RM also has X mark on it.

I think there is one or two more openings that also displayed the same image but I'm not sure about it. But anyway, this is a pretty popular theory that led people to think that perhaps it is a foreshadow for the location of Raftel. Some people think that perhaps one need to replace the bones image with world government’s symbol instead (as seen on their flag). I don’t remember if there’s an opening that did replace the bones with WG’s logo though. But whichever it is, this theory has lead people to believe that Raftel is in the middle of the RM which is a canal, so they believed that Raftel is under Reverse Mountain directly under that intersection.

Clover said that AK once had an enormous power, and we know that poneglyphs scattered in some places all over the world and was protected by responsible “guardians” of the area, so it’s not too far off to think that perhaps it has it own allies. We know the possible allies of Ancient Kingdom has sun symbols on their flag or on other things.

Since Ohara youtuber suggested that perhaps one need to intersect Kozuki clan’s symbol with Reverse Mountain instead of the bones in the image above, I thought why not I give it a chance and see if it could fit my theory or not.
　Also, there are a few good reasons to choose Kozuki clan’s emblem over other logo, like because of heavy imply on its importance:

• Wano is heavily connected with AK.
• Oda said that he has always wanted to do Wano Arc since long time ago.
• Oda drew Wano or Japanese theme color spread as early as chapter 70.
• Color spread chp 310 is obviously based on Wano’s theme, and Luffy’s armor/ outfit has bird symbols that resembles the one on Kozuki clan’s emblem.
• The position of the sun for the other kingdoms or countries are at the center of their symbol, but only Kozuki clan's has a different position of the sun instead of at the center.

• At Laugh Tale, Roger Pirates learned the entire truth of the world. About the 100-year void, the people of the D, and the ancient weapons. Also, Oden learned that Wano has open to the world in the past, thus we could assume that Wano has a close connection to the AK/ Laugh Tale.

Kozuki clan’s emblem:

Ohara suggested that we can intersect the Kozuki’s emblem with the map of Reverse Mountain. While one might think that Raftel is in the middle of the X intersection, and since I think that Raftel is at X location, that made me to come up with something a bit different than what Ohara came up with. So I tried to see if my thought is right on the spot or not in order to prove that Raftel is indeed at the X marked location.

Again, location of Raftel I have in mind:

Location of Raftel according to Ohara (he suggested that it is under Reverse Mountain):

By intersecting two “X marks” present in both Kozuki’s emblem and Reverse Mountain, I got this image below:

So instead of both X intersections being the actual X mark that will be appeared by connecting four road poneglyphs, what if the SUN is the actual X mark instead? That would fit into my theory too. Thus I think that the SUN represents the actual X mark instead in here, and will reveal the location of the ancient kingdom.

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Coloring Comparisons of the Sea of Raftel in Crocus’ Panel

Like any manga, One Piece started from black and white manga. It was later released as an anime by Toei. Then, its colored manga is released by Shuiesha that adapted its anime color scheme. I don’t know much if they consulted Eiichiro Oda about some color decision or not for both anime and colored manga, but sometimes the color scheme is a bit different between the two. As far as I know, Shueisha has “corrected” the color scheme of colored manga by following the anime color scheme.

I’ve long been skeptical about the actual color of the “sea” in the image below, but now I’m sure that there is definitely something wrong with the color of the “sea” and I’m sure it’s red like a “Red Line” instead. Look at the image below to understand my idea (pardon my noob edit). If it actually was red, the only thing that would come to mind is the Red Line instead of there is a red sea since we have never heard nor seen a red sea in this series afaik.

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Trivia

• Different names/ nicknames for Raftel:
  Raftel / Laugh Tale / ラフテル (Rafuteru) / Waraibanashi (fuent japanese readers can confirm that it literally means laugh tale)

• リヴァース・マウンテン (Rivāsu Maunten) means either "Reverse Mountain" and "Re-birth mountain" at the same time if written in Japanese. Both have the same writing and the same pronunciation. リバース (Rivāsu) can also mean vomit (The mountain kinda “vomits” water after all). Other form of (Rivāsu) is レバース.

Romance Dawn, is the title of Chapter 1. There’s also Toki’s prophecy about the “Dawn” will come (but we don’t know if it’s about Wano or the world). I think that “Reverse Mountain” also means “Re-birth” at the same time.
　Like it’s about the “Dawn of the World” that will arise after Luffy wins the upcoming Great War against the WG, in which the location of that “ New Dawn ” will be at RM. This means that the location of AK that once prospered is located at RM, which is Raftel.

ーーーーーーーーーーーーーーー

Going to Raftel

If ones actually can cross the Red Line by land, it would explain why it is difficult to go to Raftel.

• Ones need to leave their ship behind and buy a new one if they wanted to pass through Mariejoa in order to get to the other half of GL.
  　But what if there’s a place where ones can pass through the Red Line by land, and with their ship at the same time?

The opposite of Marijoa’s location would be a perfect place for this, and it is Reverse Mountain, the location of Raftel that I’ve suggested.

• There are two routes at the second half of RL, through Marijoa and through FMI (two ways to the New World, but only one way for lawless people).
  　So perhaps there are also “two routes” at Reverse Mountain. The first route will be the entrance to the Paradise and GL, which came from all Blue Seas, and the second route would be the exit from New World (and entrance to GL again at the same time).
  　If this theory is correct,it means that the two routes through RM will allow ones to travel through it without the need to left their ship behind. Meanwhile, only one route through the second half of RL allows one to bring their ship along, while the other route requires ones to leave their ship behind.

• “その説(せつ)が最も(もっとも)有力(ゆうりょく)だが誰(だれ)もそこにたどり漬け(つけ)ずにいる”, Crocus.
  “That's the most likely theory/ rumor, but no one's ever gotten there.” (DeepL)
  [Official translation if anyone wants to make a comparison: “No other legend is tempting, yet no one else has ever reached the island.” (Viz) ]

たどり着く: to arrive at (after a struggle); to finally reach; to find one's way to; to finally hit on (e.g. an idea).
　This means that it’s difficult to get to Raftel. While it might be about the four road poneglyphs, still it doesn’t mean that the journey to Raftel will be smooth either even after knowing and understanding the contents of those poneglyphs.
　It gave me an idea of it will be difficult to cross the Red Line by land and by ship at the same time.

[Stretch alert]
　The image is about crossing the water canals through the Reverse Mountain, but maybe it could also could suggest about crossing the second half of the Red Line. This is also one of the thing that gave me the idea above.

“making it difficult terrain to cross the red line”
　Like does this mean or suggest anything at all?

• Also, it’s not easy for Strawhats to climb the RM as they need to search for the canal’s entrance in order to avoid colliding with the RL’s wall of RM, or else, their ship might be swallowed by the sea because of the nearby downward currents.
  　But I think it will be more difficult for ones to climb the RL of RM by land and by ship (at the same time), to Raftel. Doesn’t really matter though since Luffy likes to use dangerous routes.

• The only people that managed to cross the RL by land by their “ship” (not a ship, but at least it’s still something similar to it) was Germa 66, from North Blue to East Blue, that would be “nearby” the RL of Mariejoa.
  　Could work as a foreshadow that one can climb the red line with their ship or something similar.

ーーーーーーーーーーーーーーー

Other Reasons of Why Raftel is on The Red Line

• I’ve seen some people said that Raftel is close to the RM and it’s natural for us to think so. I used to agree with the possibility of Raftel being under RM last year, but was in doubt with it since I can’t find any other clues to the idea other than the possibility it being the reason of why Rayleigh became a coating mechanic. The thought of it being on RM instead gave me many ideas to see other possible hints to this theory.

• Other than the islands on the sea surface, Strawhats have visited the sky (Skypiea), and undersea (FMI), but haven't visit the top of Red Line in their single journey circling the Grand Line (thus, Mariejois doesn’t count)

While we can consider that at least they have visited Zou, that has about the same height as the Red Line (just assuming), I think it would be neat if they get to visit the Red Line in their single journey. Like RL is one of the biggest mysteries in OP too.

• Also, I thought that it would be a waste if the only place and continent that is occupied by people, that is Mariejoa, would be destroyed. So I thought maybe there's another part of red line that could be occupied. I thought that it would be neat if Raftel is the direct opposite of Mariejoa, the location, the great power they have, and such, but some people beg to differ.

ーーーーーーーーーーーーーーー

Some Counter Arguments for Other Possibilities

I don’t think that Raftel is under Reverse Mountain because of how Oda drew the island. But maybe the images that we saw in Crocus and Inuarashi’s panel of Raftel show the image of water currents instead of wind.
　There’s a theory that said that Laboon actually can cross the Reverse Mountain through a hidden hole under the Red Line but I doubt that he didn’t notice the hole if it was there all along this time. But maybe that the passage only allows a one-way path from the end of New World to Paradise though.
　Another possible way to leave Raftel if it’s under RM is through a passage that will emerge in the middle of the mountain.

ーーーーーーーーーーーーーーー

Things That I’m Not Sure About

1. I don’t know how a map works but is Raftel on a flat land instead of a mountain area? ..because of how the map is drawn there..?

2. Idk how Strawhats would climb the RL to Raftel with Thousand Sunny Go. And how they would manage to descend from the high place to the middle of X mark, at the bird’s eye (scroll up and refer to the map above). also @ me if any of you have some ideas about this, doesn’t matter when

3. Vivi said, “...when you sail the Grand Line, at the very least you will have to endure 16 seasons,beginning with Summer on Summer Island and ending with Winter on Winter Island.”
   　I don’t think that Oda made Vivi mentioned summer island and winter island without reason even though he can. The first island that Strawhats have visited when they enter the Grand Line is Twin Cape, or Whisky Peak. But there’s no mention about what type of island each of them has, or I missed out smth here.

Like I’ve explained above in ”2. Raftel (Reverse Mountain) & its Parallels to Wano (Japan)” topic, the location where Crocus and Laboon were at, is an island. If any, I would like to think that Twin Cape is a summer island despite it’s logical to think of it as a winter island since Nami said RM is a winter island. If it is a winter island, Strawhats could say that it was cold there, but maybe it has a different season instead, at the time they arrived there. There was no snow either. But summer island is not the only option because there are also spring, and autumn islands. I’ll say probably the two former instead of winter and autumn island.
　But it would be more reasonable for Whisky Peak to be a summer island tbh. Or spring island. It could also be that both Twin Cape and Whisky Peak are summer islands though.

For the ”ending with Winter on Winter Island” part, Raftel, which is located on Reverse Mountain, with winter season (assumption), would be a perfect destination since it fits the description.

Also, different regions of Wano have different seasons, so it’s not really out of nowhere to say that perhaps different parts of RM have different seasons despite Nami said that it is a winter island. There are also many mysteries behind the Red Line and I assume we could say the same with the Reverse Mountain. It might be impossible for Nami to tell that the other side of RM, which is Twin Capes, has a different season because of the massive size of RM. Like Nami can’t really tell that the other side of Punk Hazard was freezing, has a cold temperature despite that she did notice the strange wind/ air coming from that direction. A reminder that Punk Hazard is an island that is half boiling and half freezing.

And then there’s this explanation; Red Line is composed of several islands linked together, each with its own climatic zone.
　So if a part of Red Line is separated from the rest of its other parts, forming a single island, I assume that island would have a different climate from those separated parts.

ーーーーーーーーーーーーーーー

Conclusion

Location of Raftel is on the Red Line at Reverse Mountain.

ーーーーーーーーーーーーーーー
ーーーーーーーーーーーーーーー

@warm hollow @zinc iris Sorry for the ping. And thanks for your response last time too, really appreciate it 🙏 . Now i'm done with the theory.

[modest skiff]

Good theory, @forest rampart . I agree with a lot of it and I'm glad you put it all together so elegantly. I have had a lot of similar thoughts regarding the Kozuki emblem and the one thing that kept evading me is what you call the sun. I didn't realize it was a sun. Do we know that is a sun? Before I continue my train of thought I think its worth clarifying how well we know that it represents the sun. Because it has 8 dots and i couldn't help but think that meant something. Based on the images we have of the supposed solar system, there do not appear to be 8 planets. Perhaps it includes moons

Another thing that I agree with is the basic premise that The AK is unreachable, not gone. I have thought that for a long time as well. My theory has been that Law or Luffy's fruits could perhaps be the key to the CDs reaching the AK.

[forest rampart]

I'm pretty sure that it is a sun. And we've seen many sun symbols from the possible allies of AK as well. If you're curious to why some sun has different shapes, I'll say that it has to do with art style.

[modest skiff]

Alright so you don't think the 8 dots being 8 doesn't mean anything other than them being equal distanced showing a sun's rays?

[forest rampart]

Yes

[modest skiff]

Makes sense, one of my other silly theories was that the AK live on the sun now after leaving the planet

And of course that meaning the sun in OP is different than ours, lol

And just to be clear, I have since decided the clouds are more likely, but I still almost slightly wonder lol

[modest skiff]

My basic thinking was "The AK are somehow unreachable. I don't know where they are, but somehow the CDs can't attack them", so then I basically concluded:

1. Either there is a part of the sea that is super crazy deep such that no one can reach it

Doesn't make sense since Aokiji could lame his way there. Fishmen would know of it such that I think they'd be forced to show CDs etc.

2. somewhere high enough that someone can't reach

Makes a lot of sense but its unclear why this means they can't be reached. My big reason for not buying the idea that AK is in the clouds is that it seems really easy for the WG to reach the clouds. Its not beyond them at all. But perhaps there is a level of height that the AK have total dominion over.

For example, the big thing that made me think the AK is in the clouds: the lobster transportation network. I don't buy the idea that Oda wants us to just accept that this enormous infrastructure exists in the clouds where a lobster lets you travel at like warp speeds LOL. I think the complexity of the cloud network is a clue that they did quite a bit of stuff up there. There is a whole advanced world in the clouds that I think people don't focus on enough. It goes way beyond skypea

I could totally imagine a situation where the AK is unreachably high up in the cloud network and its simply not feasible to go THAT high considering their defenses

3. different planet

Maybe center of moon. Maybe the sun. None of this feels solid

To add credit to your theory, until we have any sort of view of the top of the red line, it could be unfathomably tall. The sky highway may be the only viable method lol

[forest rampart]

2. somewhere high enough that someone can't reach

initially, i don't really think that it's somewhere high either. But that was because i thought that perhaps Pluton was the one that destroyed the AK as i've somewhat explained before in part one. Thinking again, we don't really know how Pluton looks like, so perhaps there's something unique with that warship design.
There's still some holes in my theories too, like it makes me wonder why Pluton didn't (or perhaps can't) destroy the Red Line of AK completely. But maybe that was because the enemies didn't have any intention of destroying it. Like maybe those enemies are still sane in their mind, or somewhat sane at least. @modest skiff

[modest skiff]

One of my Pluton theories is that it can destroy islands but it can also shoot islands into the sky. So sure, you could use a giant water canon to blow up an island's towns. Or you could shoot an island from below and toss it up into the clouds. So I think its possible Pluton was used to toss the AK up to some area in the clouds. Or somewhere close enough to transport the remainder with a bunch of warp speed lobsters??

One other thing is that I'm not 100% sure the AK was ever on the ocean level at all, or at least the core of it. Maybe it was just always up there and at one point they decided "alright forget you guys, no more colonies, you guys can fuck off"

[forest rampart]

i'm pretty sure that AK was always up there on the top of the red line for all this time

[modest skiff]

Somewhat related: One of my Luffy's fruit theories is that it is needed in order to expand/inflate a door/portal/keyhole such that you can access something locked away by the AK. My primary theory: A tiny little dot gets expanded (the same way dawn's refection on the ocean expands as the sun rises) such that you can go through a door or something to the AK. Like you need that in order to reach it up there

I think they can reach below but below can't reach them without some kinda key

[forest rampart]

Nah. i don't think so. Roger managed to reach the island anyway

[modest skiff]

True, I kind of wondered what exactly that meant, but yeah, I agree that if laugh tale is the primary AK place, you don't need Luffy's power to reach it. In order for Luffy's power to be needed, I think it would need to mean Roger never went to the actual AK homeworld

One thing I haven't fully decided on in my head is whether or not laugh tale was a colony/repository for the AK or if it was the AK primary place itself

As an example, it could be their former primary home and now they live in the clouds

like if something is on sea level and something is on top of red line, i could see something in the ocean being instructions how to reach the top of red line. I think what you are describing is most likely but it doesn't explain how they were defeated if they are really that high up

[forest rampart]

Laugh Tale is an island.
Ancient kingdom is a kingdom.

a country, state, or territory ruled by a king or queen. (from google)
So i think AK is on Laugh Tale island.

I think what you are describing is most likely but it doesn't explain how they were defeated if they are really that high up
That's why i said we don't know the design of Pluton, like perhaps that warship was designed so that it can reach, or at least, aim, to a really high place.
i don't really have any idea for this one, so lets say that perhaps it can fly. Sounds a bit crazy but we have seen a flying ark ( maxim ark), so that would be enough to think that perhaps Pluton can fly imo

[small pasture]

what if the ancient weapons are just shira vivi momo

[dusky acorn]

Unlike what I saw others critique about this part, I do think it's possible Clover was actually going to name drop the AK being Laugh Tale as part of his speech.

The name Clover was about to say for the Ancient Kingdom would have at first been in reference to what the island's old name was during the void century, and THEN in addition to that, he could have further elaborated by saying it's now known as Laugh Tale, thanks to the Pirate King. As you say, the timeline matches up for him to also reference the new name Roger gave it now.

If Clover might have gone that far with his explanation, it would be a solid reason as to why that part of his speech was kept hidden. It's possible the old name of the Ancient Kingdom might've not meant much relatively, but if he were to go on and say it's now known as Laugh Tale in addition, that would already huge significance for us, even back then.

This is an incredible effort btw, just in the process of giving it a detailed read

[forest rampart]

Wow that makes sense actually. Never thought that way before. Yes i can that happening.

it could also be like that perhaps Clover wanted to mention Laugh Tale first before saying the old name of that island or kingdom.

[modest skiff]

Whatever the name of the AK is, I think it has a name that tells us a great deal and that's why it was kept from us. @forest rampart what do you think is special about Marie Jois? If Laugh Tale is at the top of the red line in the sky zone, why do the CDs live where they do? Do you think there is anything special there?

I think there is something in Marie Jois that the CDs can't access/use and that perhaps it used to belong to the AK. I think it could be related to the "secret of Marie Jois" that doffy talks about

[forest rampart]

I don't really know about other possible names of AK.
People said that Oda likes using parallels, and I think that perhaps Raftel has some parallels to Mariejoa. That was also how I came to guess that perhaps Raftel is on a Red Line.
We know that AK once had a big power. And I did once talked about that AK could easily rule the world, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they did rule//control the world once.
What make Mariejoa and AK special are because of their strategic position and location, that would allows them to rule and control all the different seas part of the world, thus allowing them to control the world itself.

[modest skiff]

So just to make sure I understand you correctly: AK always has been in the clouds, Roger went there through some mechanism. You get there from the reverse line, which I think many people expected in some way. It feels appropriate that in order to get to the end, you need to go back to the beginning. When I first started one piece, I expected that they would need to go see Crocus in order to get there. I still think Crocus is specifically there to escort people to Laugh Tale in some way.

I think it makes sense. The only question is how you get up there with a boat. Climbing makes sense and I honestly think Luffy could carry the boat up the red line if I'm being honest. Thinking about Luffy's feats of strength, I could imagine him throwing the Sunny in the air over and over until making it to the top. After Wano, Luffy's physical capabilities are crazy high.

I do think there is some form of gate or method of preventing passage somewhere up there. I don't think its as easy as climbing high enough.

Luffy cuts through ships much larger than the Sunny like butter, he could just toss it or use some form of elasticity to shoot it up like a sling shot lol

Luffy could just use an exotic form of his balloon move to bounce it incredibly high in the air. Some kinda gear 4 version for insane bounce would be awesome lol

[steep vigil]

I think that zoro is smoker's son cus family traits pass down often in one piece

[stuck ore]

Family traits pass down in real life too

[pure raven]

I've read a good theory that the AK is Marie Jois (is that how it's spelled?)

In the OnePiece subreddit, I'm too lazy to dig it up

[steep vigil]

Zoro and smoker both love certain types of drugs

[forest rampart]

I don't really understand what do you mean by that AK is in the clouds. If you're saying that it was hidden by the clouds, like how it was with Mariejoa, then yes. But if you mean that it is on the cloud like sky island, then no.
What I mean was that AK is on a red line, like how it is with Pangae Castle and CDs homes.

No, you don't have to back to the beginning. Luffy should just continue moving forward to the end of New World. And that'll be where he needs to figure out how he can reach the island, and everything else that comes along with it.

As for how to climb the red line, i don't understand it either. But I could guess that perhaps there's a waterfall, something like we've seen with Wano. So maybe Luffy needs to climb a waterfall again, but maybe it will be a bit different this time.

[grizzled fog]

I’ll entertain this as serious for a moment. Smoker is 36

[stuck ore]

While smoker take only Ls and zoro take Ws too

[modest skiff]

Oh so you're saying its not even really all that high up, just hanging out up there in an accessible place if you were to walk? For example if they just parked next to it at the red line and climbed up, you're saying reaching it would be that simple?

In such a case that would basically mean Germa could easily reach there themselves if they just knew where it was

I thought you were saying Laugh Tale is on some incredibly high up place on the red line, in a really high up sky island

[forest rampart]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/L9Ocg6KQu3w/maxresdefault.jpg

[modest skiff]

Yeah but I thought part of the red line goes much higher than where Marie Jois is?

[forest rampart]

Lets imagine that Mariejoa is the AK.

[modest skiff]

Right so you're basically just saying the same is true on the opposite side of the planet? and that's where Laugh Tale is?

[forest rampart]

We don't have enough info about the red line. But if I have to guess, I'll say that the height of red line for both at the location of AK and Mariejoa are about the same height. Like probably 10km from the sea. So, it will be about the same height of white white sea, the cloud below the skypiea island.

From Blue Sea to White White Sea on Skypiea is 10km.

[feral scroll]

Thats a really interesting theory

The whole toki prophecy was really bothering me too

[pure raven]

Nice take

[placid birch]

Laugh tale is ancient kingdom and Roger's journet was actually not complete because there was some other hidden continent where humans originated from but left it because of the dangers of mythical creatures, viruses and other stuff

Roger couldn't complete his voyage because of his horrible health condition

[pure raven]

If a person who is using his df outside his body like doffys bird cage or sugar turning people into puppets get knocked unconscious then there ability come undone

So is this same apply for Big Mom ? becasue never saw anything happening to napolian or prometheus or anyone on wci /toto land

Brcause if it didnt apply to bm then there is a chance that we might see zeus even after bm dies

[placid birch]

Interesting one

[pseudo citrus]

tama also got knocked out but it didn't stop the gifters from betraying

[pure raven]

Yeah tama too

[waxen dust]

I like to think of Big Mom’s soul ability similar to Law’s ability with switching people’s souls and bodies, etc. Even if Law were to die then the effects would still be irreversible because he’s manipulating living beings, similarly to Big Mom and her ability with manipulating souls. The same case can be also said if Imu had truly got the Eternal Youth Surgery and still is alive to this day, the effects never wear off regardless of the DF users well being.

My only doubt tho, iirc when Big Mom ate Mother Caramel her sun also vanished.

[small pasture]

any thought on warship island saga ? i still think that it is a rought sketch of what the one piece ending will be

[pure raven]

whose skull is this

[ancient vault]

Not real skull

[frail stone]

Kaido’s dad

[robust sky]

i was thinking the same thing hahaha
ancestor maybe hahaha

[cold urchin]

just a beast pirates icon

[ancient vault]

#manga-theories message
Back on my pc

[modest skiff]

Still hoping we see a flash back and it shows the skull there pre-Kaido

[upbeat mist]

Wait did the anime disprove the Zoro no conquerer theory?

[unique pulsar]

What?

[ancient vault]

never

[ancient vault]

its filler so not really but they went big balls to put it in. So theyre very confident their filler wont contradict the canon story

[upbeat mist]

I only saw the Crunchyroll clip so I don't know the context

[modest skiff]

It’s totally impossible it won’t be canon. Anime just showed it earlier. It’s not like Oda had no idea they’d do that

[unique pulsar]

Cna I ask what did they do? Since I don't watch anime frequently now?

[upbeat mist]

They had Zoro consciously use conquerer haki in a controlled manner

[unique pulsar]

Wow

But in mamga he isn't even aware that he used it :v

[modest skiff]

My theory is that at some point he uses it, someone is like “no seriously zoro…that’s what that is” and then he’ll say “oh, well that’s not special” or something like that

[visual merlin]

anime isn't canon, but it does seem like the anime meant for it to come off that way yes

[modest skiff]

It isn’t canon but it’s totally insane to pretend the anime would do this if it wasn’t the plan already. The anime has never just given a character some massive power without it matching the manga eventually

[visual merlin]

Zoro does have the power, just at a later date

and in a different way

[unique pulsar]

I hope that he will be aware of it in wano and then at least practice it and can control it a lil by the end of wano

[modest skiff]

I think he’d be entirely fine on his own tbh

[visual merlin]

so yes its fine if they do this, considering the anime isn't meant to be a 1 to 1 adaptation anyway, Oda lets them do what they want and considers the anime and manga separate

[modest skiff]

The anime has made notable improvements over certain decisions by the manga in the past, so I trust it

[ancient vault]

hes gonna use it to protect hiyori

[visual merlin]

so although Im not a fan of it, this isn't something that really affects the canon, the anime just twisted it a bit

[unique pulsar]

One piece would be a lot more popular anime if pacing was better ngl

[ancient vault]

still a horrible choice tbh

[modest skiff]

One Piece doesn’t need more popularity

[ancient vault]

like insanely horrible. They just ruined the suprise on the roof top

[unique pulsar]

I personally wanted to re watch it and ik that it's already popular enough but I didn't start re watching it cos of pacing so I started re reading manga

[visual merlin]

What would those be? And even if this were the case it wouldn't change that it's not canon and Oda considers them separate

[modest skiff]

No one would have been surprised at any point any way. We have all seen this coming miles away

[ancient vault]

https://youtu.be/qYzqDJBeI9Q This theory is basically the best theory out so far imo

[visual merlin]

People thinking zoro would get CoC doesn't mean this is a perfectly fine choice

[ancient vault]

Ohara translated it. original theory is from japanese creator

[modest skiff]

Small things here and there that make certain ideas or events more clear. Not talking about restricting the story, more so doing a better job at telling the story in more logical or clear ways at time

[visual merlin]

it's still choosing to make a filler scene at that the revelation of his CoC, which he seems to use in a controlled way

[unique pulsar]

Literally but it will ruin moment with kaido now and all impact

[ancient vault]

Not really. Oda was constantly playing with our minds. Even having Brook troll around. The real suprise came when it was "confirmed" by Kaido

[visual merlin]

The anime tells a slightly different story, like say them filling in what happened with Ashura and Holdem, as an anime it's bound to have more content, and sometimes it'll be good, but its still noncanon

[bitter kraken]

Was there black lighting when zoro cut kaido? Wouldn’t Emma enma or how ever you spell it draw out zoros coc if he indeed has it

[visual merlin]

no

[modest skiff]

For me, Rayleigh and Kata were what told me with 100% confidence Zoro would have it eventually and it was just a matter of time

[unique pulsar]

I never even doubted that zoro has coc cos it was kinda expected for him to have it

[pure raven]

My theory is that vegapunk wanted luffys fruit for the awakening. If he could work in a lab made of rubber he would never get electrocuted

[modest skiff]

I’m honestly not concerned with that distinction of “canon” when it’s telling the same story. Doesn’t matter to me and I consider it all the same. We don’t need to be so strict when the result is the same. Of course when something flat out isn’t real, it isn’t canon for me. But saying the same thing a different way gets a check mark from me

[bitter kraken]

Lol very good fruit for working with electricity

[ancient vault]

butn its really not the same story. Toei gave the reveal in the most useless situation ever

[bitter kraken]

Nah zoro dosnt have coc it’s something else entirely new

[visual merlin]

The canon has to be a concern when we're talking about what has canonically happened. It's telling the same general story, but the anime is an adaptation that Oda has said is separate

[unique pulsar]

No it is coc

[ancient vault]

Meanwhile oda revealed it in the fight vs Kaido

[unique pulsar]

Cos kaido is coated in coc and only another coc can cut him

[bitter kraken]

Zoros new sword can cut anything

[unique pulsar]

Oda found literally epic way to reveal it and they ruined it just like that

[visual merlin]

no that's not how it works lol

Zoro cut him before he even exerted CoC in any way

as did all of the scabbards

[modest skiff]

Right, I guess I look at that and don’t really worry about it much. It can be separate and similar. The guy with the heat fruit is clearly not canon. But Zoro’s CoC is canon, just presented at a different time and in a different way. Or at least that’s how the semantics work out in my head

[bitter kraken]

Yep zoro coc not confirmed

[visual merlin]

Kaido only just started using CoC attacks, and he only uses it for offensive so far anyway

Zoro's CoC in 1010 is canon, Zoro's CoC in anime filler where he uses it in a controlled way is not

[modest skiff]

Yeah I see what you mean. Those details do matter but I’m just focusing on if he has it or not.

[bitter kraken]

He’s got no coc in either places, in the anime the color of the screen didn’t even change when it usually does when showing someone using it the first time to us. Think when ace was a kid, umm the flash back with oden

[unique pulsar]

He 100% has it

[cold urchin]

wait till confirmed for fair

[visual merlin]

in 1010 Kaido mentions his CoC, it's practically confirmation

[bitter kraken]

I’m gonna say it’s something entirely new something like coc but not exactly that, something connected to his bloodline

[modest skiff]

“Practically” lol the dude uses it himself and knows all about it

[unique pulsar]

If kaido himself isn't enough of a proof idk what is

[cold urchin]

iam just go wait for oda

[unique pulsar]

I don't think that he has any great bloosline tho

[visual merlin]

yes because people will argue kaido could've been wrong/only asking a question

that's all

[cold urchin]

[modest skiff]

If Kaido can critique Luffy’s use of CoC, he is capable of seeing if someone uses it at all

[bitter kraken]

Wouldn’t luffy have noticed zoro had it before hand long before all that

[modest skiff]

Yeah I can understand that. It’s a stretch but if people wanna think that, I don’t mind them thinking that lol

[ancient vault]

how? zoro never used ashura on him

[bitter kraken]

Kaido is also a liar

[modest skiff]

I’m not convinced Luffy would have even commented on it if he noticed

[visual merlin]

because zoro wouldn't have ever used it before that

[unique pulsar]

He isn't as expirienced in it as kaido is and zoro was never fighting 100% till fight with kaido to draw it out himself

[visual merlin]

we would've most likely known if zoro had it before

plenty of chances for oda to have him use it too

seems like zoro unlocked it in 1010

[bitter kraken]

But wouldn’t his coc just randomly be used before sorta like how luffy was using without knowing before he even new what it was

[visual merlin]

no not necessarily

[cold urchin]

lets drop it , this debate never ends
if u didnt believe zoro have coc
just wait for oda confirmed
thats isnt hard right ?

[visual merlin]

zoro hadn't been pushed to that extreme until kaido

[bitter kraken]

How did he just unlock it and use it in an attack makes no sense to me

[visual merlin]

so it makes sense he'd only unlock it then

he didn't use it in an attack

[unique pulsar]

He used it for the first time when he was desperate to save Ace just like Zoro was to cut kaido

[visual merlin]

he just unlocked it

[bitter kraken]

Idk wtf

[cold urchin]

at least isnt being suprise for zoro have coc

[modest skiff]

So you're saying your theory is that Zoro hadn't been pushed hard enough for it to be expressed yet, so it was more like a burst of it, rather than a part of the ashura attack? That seems most accurate to me because I think we would assume CoC coating of the sword would have done more damage. But maybe that's really what it takes to damage Kaido.

Can someone remind me? Was it implied that Oden used CoC coating to cut Kaido?

[cold urchin]

oden hasnt have coc

[modest skiff]

The wiki lists him as a user so I'm just going based on that

I assume there are enough unique individuals who would edit the wiki if it were wrong

[visual merlin]

I think he hadn't awakened it until then ye, Kaido was just the first instance post ts where he was pushed that hard. And also yes just a burst of it, a normal use of it when it knocks out fodder. And he scarred kaido just because the attack was really strong

No it wasn't implied oden used Cocting to cut kaido, in fact we didn't see the trail and earlier in the flashback he was confused as to what Cocting was

[modest skiff]

I thought it was "Whoa, wtf is cocting" when he met Roger. Then he went on a big adventure with Roger and came home. Then he fought Kaido. It would seem really weird for him not to have learned it during that time

Oden presumably would have essentially forced Roger to teach him or else be unbelievably annoying forever

[visual merlin]

characters rarely learn things like that just because they saw it

even more rarely get taught by crewmates

[modest skiff]

Yeah but I’m saying he saw Roger used it and then cruised around with him for a long time. Oden would never be like “well that guy knows an amazing attack. I have no interest in it”

[visual merlin]

I think that is enough to say he probably didn't have it, and the fact that oden has no trail doesn't help

[visual merlin]

Lots of characters you'd think would ask to learn certain things, but for whatever reason in one piece they still don't

[modest skiff]

That’s fair

[visual merlin]

Realistically, zoro should probably ask to learn future sight, maybe the other strawhats should ask to learn haki

[modest skiff]

Yeah lol

[cold urchin]

oh iam just realize oden hasnt have his vivre card yet

[tawny smelt]

I love this

[gloomy latch]

Yeah actually is

[modest skiff]

I like some of it and not other parts. For example "2 moons" being read as 2 halves of a moon rather than 2 moons is silly. Maybe there used to be 2 moons. Assuming 2 moons means 2 halves of D doesn't follow for me

[gloomy latch]

Oh I am just a bit into the vid

But like it gives an actual meaning to finding the 'one piece' of an island

[feral scroll]

Tbh they are usually really busy

[rugged harbor]

This also works perfectly with the all blue theory imo , this explains what the ancient kingdom was and what happened to it and how it literally fell apart
But also the all blue theory covers the kingdom's purpose
On top of that it means that Luffy will be close by enies lobby to destroy it along with all other world government bases on his way to laugh tale

So now we pretty much know the whole story xD

[modest skiff]

Luffy definitely punches through that door at some point

[rugged harbor]

Oh yeah for sure , probably as a reference to punching the bell

It all goes full circle

To this day I considered Nolan as a meme version of Roger , but I never thought a day would come where they would both be of the same importance to the story xD

[cloud saddle]

It looks like Elbaf is related to Wikings, right? Loki, Elbaf Warriors look and act like Wikings, World Tree.
**Do you think Enel will show up in Elbaf? **
He is kind of the lightning god and lightning god in Norse mythology was really important.

[ornate mesa]

https://youtu.be/qYzqDJBeI9Q

[feral scroll]

Pretty interesting theory but probably not, its kinda weird reusing a villian.

[gloomy latch]

Sorry it's spoiler posted it on another server but makes sence lol

Man this also means that luffy can take out the other gov sites on his way back to enis lobby to find the one piece

[modest skiff]

No spoilers in this channel @gloomy latch

[gloomy latch]

No I meant spoiler tagged it's a theory related

[modest skiff]

Spoilers are specifically intended to only be in the spoilers channel and theories based on spoilers are not permitted in this channel

[gloomy latch]

Nothing to do with 1020

[sand sail]

It's okay, it's not a spoiler. No need to tag something like that here though, no worries

[modest skiff]

Oh wait I see what you mean, sorry

And yeah, Kozuki crest and WG all having 4 things intersect sure does make us scratch our chins

[gloomy latch]

Yeah sorry I had to rename the screenshot cause I posted it in another server where I had to spoiler it and this is the only way to post spoiler tagged on mobile thou could have changed it back lol

[modest skiff]

removed spoiler for you

[gloomy latch]

Thanks, also could this link to devil fruits and how water is their weakness as if this is true and op is under enis lobby then a good way to protect it would be to make sure all devil fruits have a weakness to water or something to to with Dr vagapunk lol I don't know

[modest skiff]

Whatever the case, I think the world is essentially being punished for something. My theory is that, related to the whole Zunesha punishment thing, something went down and someone hated it.

I don't have a ton of confidence in this, but since you mentioned it: A very loose theory of mine is that the devil fruit "curse" only happened after the void century. Like the CDs violated the laws of nature of the planet and the planet essentially took back the devil fruit powers in a limited way.

[wicked charm]

i feel like that video was over 40 minutes long

[gloomy latch]

Also the fact that the CDs are/have never shown to have eaten a devil fruit

[wicked charm]

also this video shouldve ended after the first 10 seconds, wouldve been the best thing ever lmao

[weary cliff]

The donquixote brothers tho

[gloomy latch]

Oh yeah true lol

[modest skiff]

I think CDs don't eat devil fruits because they associate devil fruits with the AK, who they see as trash. Its not that they aren't able, its that they refuse

[wicked charm]

i heard a theory where imu was the person offering the world devil fruits

[gloomy latch]

Also in this theory not only does luffy backtrack to prob fight the world gov in Marijoa but also can help Fishman island and the noah or like the strawhats can split up and help both on their way to the op, this does mean that dealing with shanks/blackbeard and Elbaf are next after Wano which would probably be the case anyway

I'm tempted to draw a map of events if this theory is real lol 😆

Also didn't one of the op editors say that none of the theories about the red line being destroyed by luffy were right well in this one it doesn't happen lol

[fair crag]

I was thinking about effect of Red Line on OP world, such a huge mountain mass around the world would probably slow planet rotation

[amber oar]

Don't think much on real physics implications

[cloud saddle]

Laughtale can't be under Enies Lobby. That part was just too much for me and the whole theory feel shit, because of this.

Imagine random redditor post this idea on reddit

he would get 0 upvotes and only hate comments

It is also specifically stated that Shandora is a city, not kingdom. So the other "city" that went missing from the left eye is as well not kingdom, but a city at best. What he said in the video felt like he thinks that Laughtale = Ancient City /Kingdom, which is also not true.

[modest skiff]

A kingdom can mean more than one city and even more than one island

[cloud saddle]

There is not a single individual, either weapon ( ancient weapon) that could transport part of the island, to the place you would want. Shandora wen't up in the Sky by a natural disaster. If anything, the missing "city" from left eye, could have change place only to the natural disaster just like Shandora and if that's what happend, there is no way that it randomly appeard under Enies Lobby, at best it could be under Jaya.

[ember trench]

or an ancient giant 👀

jokes aside, theory is crack but it's good crack

[ancient vault]

ancient giant? i was summoned

theres someone with horns on the map archer

[ember trench]

I like the idea of Laugh Tale being close to Mary Geoise, like the government built their center of power and major institutions over it.

[ancient vault]

looks like an oni

[ember trench]

I like the idea of it being the missing part of Jaya and making up a second half of the ancient kingdom

very cool ideas

[ancient vault]

right at the edge of the missing eye. Theres a monster/human with horns

[cloud saddle]

Didn't Oda say that he changed what One Piece really was, because someones theory was very close to it?

This thing that Ohara said might be relevent, but back when Skypia arc was released, now it's totally different

[ember trench]

whtcha mean swrml

[ancient vault]

i think an editor said it. Mightve been bullshitting

[ember trench]

don't know what you mean

about changing what the treasure is. never heard that anywhere.

[ancient vault]

i saw it. Wasnt an official source so mightve been fake but honestly doubt hes changint the entire story cazse of one theory lol

[ember trench]

ruh roh

[cloud saddle]

Onigashima is the City from the left eye

confirmed

[ancient vault]

remember yeti cool brothers? Their race was foreshadowed all the way back in skypiea too

[ember trench]

was it now

[ancient vault]

Chapter 253 We hear talk of "giant beast"

Sanji says giant beast are afraid of fire and yetis are afraid of fire

[waxen dust]

wait you guys are saying Onigashima is a part of Jaya?

[ancient vault]

Idk if I posted this here before lol. Not fully what im saying and im not finished with that part of the theory.

Its still part of my kaido theory that i cant finish

[waxen dust]

Well I know you told me the stuff about Ringo which made sense

[fair crag]

what Ringo stuff ?

[ancient vault]

But I also think Kaido mightve stationed the yeti cool brothers in PH to kind of watch over the island as he needs it because they just recently habited PH and he doesnt trust caesar

[waxen dust]

Onigahsima as the other missing half of Jaya also makes sense, especially if they were mentioning of giant beasts in that arc

[ancient vault]

;)

[cloud saddle]

so what about Emerald City?

[waxen dust]

@cloud saddle I posted that on #manga

we already know what it looks like

[ancient vault]

#manga-theories message

[cloud saddle]

what's the context of it? when did they show this picture ?

It's probably only a base idea of it anyway, since WCI picture was not accurate at all

[ancient vault]

its filler but the idea of WCI is correct tho

[ancient vault]

an island of sweets. THats insanely accurate

[cloud saddle]

who would have thought, that an emerald city would have an emeralds on the island

i could draw it as well, the thing is, it's not accurate at all. It's just an idea

[ancient vault]

@ember trench btw its also weird how whenever we talk about gigantification and the WG its always about ancient giants

[waxen dust]

Yeah and the Emerald City island has the distinct features

1. The Emeralds at the top of the island

2. The river circling around the island, which represents the yellow brick road

3. The island seems like it’s floating or it’s standing on top of something (which I think is above the Giant tree in Elbaf)

[ancient vault]

this guy might be a giant beast who was tried to be turned into an ancient giant

[ember trench]

wonder what the deal is with ancient giants

[waxen dust]

google Olmecs

[ancient vault]

400 years ago the missing eye was gone. Oars roamed the sea 500 years ago tho

He couldve stolen it which wouldnt suprise me at all

[ember trench]

ancient giants created the red line

[cloud saddle]

seeing some theories getting upvoted / liked ( reddit / youtube) makes me think that it's not about the context, but about how you present it. Some shit ideas that makes 0 sense getting liked / upvoted and some good ideas getting disliked / downvoted, just because someone was straight, without bullshiting.

[ancient vault]

he created a country. Unless you see that as a country its not possible

[ember trench]

not oars

[ancient vault]

And the country is rumored to still be somewhere though it being wano just doesnt work

[ancient vault]

oh yeah that might be possible

[ancient vault]

reddit is just a shit place bro

[fair crag]

but what do we know about Red Line, is it possible that there are other places on Red Line like Marie Goise or was, its a huge landmass

[waxen dust]

it’s never about context, if you don’t present your case in an intricate way then no one gives a shit. Even if it’s a million dollar theory, no one cares when it’s not tied in a “nice bow”

[ancient vault]

i've thought about that too. Technically it should be possible right?

it might be guarded tho.
Btw picas DF would be kind of broken lol

[fair crag]

information about devil fruits will be big when oda shows us

a lot of my theoris about Void Century got stuck because I don't understand real nature of devil fruits and origin

[waxen dust]

It’s possible there could be more things on top of the red line, possibly even inside the Red Line. But the only thing we know for sure is that The WG is on top of it and that traveling across it is not an easy feat
( btw nice Grimmer pfp)

[ancient vault]

@ember trench do u think an oni race can exist?

[cloud saddle]

few days ago, some guy got 300 upvotes on reddit for a theory about : "BlackBeard coming to Wano".

[fair crag]

hehe thanks

[ember trench]

i do not

[slow jackal]

Whats an oni race

[ember trench]

unless ancient giants are oni

[waxen dust]

Emerald City is the likely place for this reveal, I think we’re getting Vegapunk in this arc and possibly a green poneglyph that explains the Devil Fruits (look up Emerald Tablets)

[ancient vault]

oni = ogre?

[slow jackal]

Thx

[waxen dust]

Yeah Oni should be ogres

[ancient vault]

i mean onis could be the race lost in time right?

[slow jackal]

That would be cool

But king isnt an ofre right

[ancient vault]

king is a seperate race that is very rare. BM was talking about another race that was lost in time

[waxen dust]

Onis definitely meant to represent as the Olmecs, which ties into Mesoamerican times. That ranges around the time of the Ancient Kingdom’s existence

[fair crag]

thanks, I'll go look into it, sounds interesting

[ancient vault]

onis got horns tho. Olmecs are sth else

[gloomy latch]

You would call this a shit theory? Or you just saying in general. Lol https://youtu.be/qYzqDJBeI9Q

[ancient vault]

stop posting the theory like 10 times

[waxen dust]

Olmecs build statues of heads looking like giants and ogres (like the one in Skypiea), they also invented rubber.

[gloomy latch]

Wait people are saying it's Onigashima now?

[fair crag]

its interesting theory but I was not that blown away, lots of stuff is missing, but always like to watch/read something new, even if i don't agree

[ancient vault]

huh what statue

The island was empty so far tho

[gloomy latch]

Personally I didn't think any big stuff was missing thou I didn't think that bit about the moons made sence

[ancient vault]

wait do you mean the one on the map?

[waxen dust]

The statue on the far right has the same head piece as the one in Skypiea.

[ancient vault]

ohhhh vearth

ig the teeth do fit to ancient giants

why were they known as rubber people

[waxen dust]

the teeth look exactly like Oars

They invented rubber

This could likely tie them to Onis being apart of the Anicent Kingdom, especially with the hinted significances to the giant Straw Hat and the Gomu Gomu’s value

[ancient vault]

Are you using oni as a synonym to ancient giant?

[modest skiff]

I still think Shandora was intentionally blasted up

[modest skiff]

Yes I think that Marie Jois was built on top of something that they still can't access. But they wanted it 100% blocked off from the rest of the world such that people don't even know it exists

[waxen dust]

Yeah for now, I think they might be of some relation to one another. But it could also be the Onis evolved from the Ancient giants. Hard to say as of now, until we get some Kaido flashback or an Oni info dump

[fair crag]

what do you guys think about possibility that DF are technology created to store knowledge and technology, when I see OP it feels that the world went through some horrible catastrophe and DF are used as way to protect knowledge

[modest skiff]

I think that Onigashima was carried by a giant in a defensive way. My theory is that towards the end of the void century, a bunch of allies basically retreated to the sky or other places that are unreachable. I think that at the end of the war, everyone was really weakened, so people were able to all retreat. And I think there is some weapon/device that is capable of shooting islands up into the sky as a defensive capability. One possibility is that Pluton can either use water to drown/destroy an island or it can use water to shoot an island into the air from below.

Everyone always calls me a dumbass when I say this, but I'm saying it again, because the anime drawing makes it look a LOT more probable (and apparently sometimes anime hints earlier than manga): The skull on Onigashima is something's skull. Similar to how we keep seeing the whole "variable weather" thing applied to narrower and narrower situations, Onigashima:

. The waters surrounding the island are apparently lined with whirlpools that make navigating around it nearly impossible unless one utilizes specialized watercraft like a submarine.[6] Thunderstorms are very frequent and even blizzards can happen, sometimes independent to the rest of the island.[7][8]

The anime's detail to the skull's teeth make me think that the island was brought to the Wano region as a last ditch defensive move. The enormous giant ended up dying there, heroically taking a bunch of damage on the way to the safe area of wano

[fair crag]

I think that too that Wano could be last stand for Ancient Kingdom where they actually pushed back Celestial Dragons

[modest skiff]

My spitball theory on how it all went down:

1. After Im betrayed the AK, AK peaced out and went to the highest point in the sky area, only reachable using the warp speed lobsters

2. AK allies were given special consideration and help and evacuated in various ways. Minks, Wano, Shandora and others needed special defenses/places. Elbaf was perhaps either neutral the whole time or an AK ally, but they were strong enough to just close their borders and give the WG the finger.

[fair crag]

I had a theory that Celestial Dragons were original users of DF and with them they were able to push Ancinet Kingdom so hard, but what made wano different is existence of seastone, and that helped them actually fight them, during that battle CD lost a lot of devil fruits user and that is how they got in circulation in the world, to cut their losses they retreated and people in Wano made it fortress.

[modest skiff]

That's a cool theory and would explain why the devil fruits are cursed and banned from the ocean

[summer ermine]

I was just thinking the other day and since everyone is expecting a straw hat to die with the main guess is ussop since itll show him sacrificing his life for luffy and being a brave man at sea or whatever. Consider that the D is the natural enemy of the gods during this. During marineford when whitebeard could of killed bb, bb wasnt smiling but rather petrified making me think that he is a fake D member. Also in dressrosa ussop is referenced as god ussop but since he isnt a real celestial dragon he isnt a "god" so could the fake D member kill the fake "god" to fullfill ussops goal?

[sick spear]

Xebec is somehow within Blackbeard and that’s why shanks was caught off guard and worried 👀

Fuck it

Xebec had the Ope Ope no Mi and some how transferred his consciousness into Blackbeard . There I SAID IT

[knotty sky]

Into a 2 year old Blackbeard?

[sick spear]

The last part of the theory was me being high but

Yes I do believe xebec is some how within Blackbeard

[modest skiff]

My theory is that Xebec was in the void dimension within the Yami. Or his log. Or his weapons. Something is in there

[junior shoal]

really liked this one

raftel being below enies lobby was too much for me but other stuff of numbers and chapters and sun and moon was good stuff

[harsh niche]

they made of rubber

[pure raven]

so is anyone actually buying this theory, it just does not work for me

[junior shoal]

i like the sun and moon part evidence

[pure raven]

i think there was too much funny business

[junior shoal]

even before this theory it was a common notion

especially after nika

[pure raven]

some part were alright and believable but man most of it just seemed like a total stretch

[junior shoal]

even though some parts were pure spitballing, it was a good perspective

[pure raven]

i think spitballing next to serious theorizing just makes the whole thing seem less legitimate to me

[modest skiff]

yeah its a big swing and a miss to me

[pure raven]

Happy im not the only one lol

[modest skiff]

I think a lot of stuff is really compelling and there is clearly a lot going on with the sun and the moon, but the conclusions drawn from that just didn't work for me. Good evidenced was gathered but I think the analysis veered off course

[proud tree]

the dark hole under enies lobby is weird ... why did Oda make it just to increase tension?

[sturdy hawk]

I like the conclusions of the theory

[sick spear]

@modest skiff What are you guys referring to

[ember trench]

the theory is crack but it's good crack

also wonder if the light in Enies Lobby is related to the Eve tree

[sturdy hawk]

I mainly like the idea of it being underground and being the left eye

[jagged leaf]

You guys talking about that Ohara (translated from Japanese) theory?

[modest skiff]

One possibility is that some islands are born from the tree. Some islands not born from the tree

[modest skiff]

@sick spear referring to this

[jagged leaf]

The only thing that confuses me about this theory is the mechanisms of Devil fruits. Like clearly there's some magic BS with the closest fruit becoming the DF after the users death

[proud crystal]

ooh, what if it's parasites? they can fly through the air upon death of the host and reattatch themselves to a new fruit!

doesn't explain how the fruits never seem to decay, though...

[jagged leaf]

sure the celestial dragons wouldn't want the power to be lost but if they could control the fruits they'd have a better mechanism for storing the power. even if that's literally having a bunch of apples in their ships during a battle

[modest skiff]

Regardless, if we know there is a mythical tree and we know there are interesting fruits, it sure does feel connected. Unclear why they would be banned from the ocean. I think there was once a time when devil fruit users weren't banned by the ocean

[jagged leaf]

Parasites are a lil strange cuz Logias

[jagged leaf]

there was that one theory which I think tekking made about the celestial dragons riding dragons? Like I think there is some reference to CD wanting dragons or smt with the punk hazard drag.

Maybe there's an argument that can be made where they didn't have to swim if they could fly

[proud crystal]

how so specially for logias? no matter what the fruit lets you do, it's basically magic under another name...it defies normal abilities. bc logias can reform?

[summer ermine]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYzqDJBeI9Q

please watch this - its actually mind blowing

[modest skiff]

we've already discussed that and found a lot of issues with it

[summer ermine]

oh fr lol

whats some of the issues

[modest skiff]

Good evidence and questionable conclusions is the TLDR of my thoughts. Its not that the signs aren't good, its the "and so this is what it means" that I think a lot of people have problems with

[jagged leaf]

Yeah basically. Creating matter is kinda crazy as a parasites ability. And why would they be invisible ?

[summer ermine]

elaborate?

[steep vigil]

Brook will be the first strawhat to die.

[jagged leaf]

he's already dead tho

[steep vigil]

💀 Yohohoho

[dusk sand]

Alright guys

My first manga theory is coming, please let me know what you think

[jagged leaf]

What dya guys think about the whole Who's who thing? I'm a follower of it being useful for making giants

[modest skiff]

I'd rather not describe every single issue, but generally: I think the author basically makes big leaps. There are some things that just aren't reasonable at all.

For example: "This means 2 moons by word play"

Ok, that is fine

"And so what if 2 D people have smiles that form a full moon? Ok so lets assume that is true"

^that is a huuuuge leap. Similar things happen

[dusk sand]

Chapter 1021 - 1022 Theory: Robin's Powerup
Ok so, hear me out.
We have constantly seen each Straw Hat get pushed by enemies over the course of the series constantly. They all have managed to keep up in the New World so far up until Wano.
Quick list:

1. Luffy - Adv Arm/Adv Ryuo and CoCting - 2 buffs
2. Zoro - Enma - 1 buff (probably CoC too)
3. Sanji - Raid Suit - 1 buff
4. Nami - Zeus/Cotton/Watta Clima-Tact - 1 buff
5. Chopper - Rumble Ball that lasts 30 minutes - 1 buff

So back in Enies Lobby, we see that the Straw Hats cannot handle the overwhelming strength of their opponents. They haven't had nearly as much trouble before as with previous battles in previous arcs. This is their moment where they have to actually step it up. Now we see a few particular changes in how characters grow and how they utilize their skills to the best of their abilities.
Up first, Luffy with Gear 2 and Gear 3. If I'm not mistaken, during the battle with Lucci, Lucci states that Luffy is "chipping away at his life" every time he uses Gear 2 specifically. (Chapter 420 Pages 14 - 15) Now we know Luffy is the type of guy to stand for others. Its not only in character for him to do something like this, even after Robin's intentions; but he even goes on to reply back to Lucci that "It's better than doing nothing while my friends are being take away!!" I'm going to extend this to Gear 3 in the same sense because while it doesn't chip away at Luffy's life, it does give him the drawback of temporarily being a small child. The reason why that is important? It reminds Luffy of his setbacks. Him being a kid like when he was rejected by Shanks and couldn't join the Red Hair Pirates. He can't afford these setbacks anymore, let alone lose his friends or disappoint Shanks by not becoming a great pirate. This is indicative of the fact that he rarely uses Gear 3.
Now, keep his quotes in mind, this will be relevant later when I wrap up.

Second is Zoro's Asura. Zoro has been with Luffy since the very beginning. This is intentional, not just because of the role he plays but also because he is so willing to let Luffy lead and not questioning him at any point (at least as far as I can remember). He's not the type of person to blindly follow but he's also not good with directions. This is important because when we see that he cannot go any further in his fight with Kaku he does the one thing Kaku doesn't expect. See, anyone can act all smug 100% of the time when they're losing. But what happens when you are losing a fight and bleeding from the head? The blood trickles down your face, it blinds you. Your opponent towers you and you are bad with directions. You have nowhere else to go and you can't retreat because everyone is depending on you. And this is all while having a bandana on. Oda knows this and plays around with it. The explanation isn't needed for Asura (aside from what happened in Chapter 1010) because Asura is Zoro at his worst moment, doing the best he can. He needs to be able to land a hit on his opponent and see where their attack is coming from. So in this instance, he looks in all 3 directions. Forward, Sides, Behind. He always has 3 swords, he's always having trouble with directions. He doesn't play the edgy lone swordsman 100% of the time because he knows his crewmates need him and he needs them. So naturally, he is accumulating all of this guilt inward that has been repressed and releasing it on Kaku. No one can fight or ambush him and his crew if he can see in all directions. A bit silly, but it works with what we know about him. The attack name is even called "Asura: Silver Mist" And what are heavy mists like in real life? Well, if you are in them, most people can't see in all directions unless you have friends or people to guide you through it.

Thirdly and finally, Sanji's Diable Jambe. This and Asura have a lot in common in my opinion because they are so cool and far fetched that I don't think anyone had a problem with the minimal explanations we got for them. This new moveset relies on friction. Sanji spins so fast that it actually causes his leg to burst into flames, or at the very least, get very hot. Now Sanji's story is the most interesting of the three. Without WCI existing, I would've said, "This is just Sanji pushing himself like the others because he has to defend his friends and there is no meaning behind it beyond that." Very similar to how I felt about Gear 2, Gear 3, and Asura when I first saw them in Enies Lobby: cool as shit, random as fuck. But I was so wrong. Think about it, it is so simple. Zeff gave his leg for Sanji. Not even just the leg itself is a factor. Reminder that Sanji's whole worldview is based around Zeff. Never hit a woman, never let anyone starve, never give up on dreams. The All-Blue. Sanji doesn't have a DF and he needs legs to be able to swim to the All-Blue. With the added context of WCI, we now know he also spent a lot of time around his mother. Aside from the pervy mannerisms, she influenced him positively. After she passed, the death hit him so hard his brothers and father were abusive towards him. We then see Reiju bond with him, and after some time, she even tells him word for word, "Now run!! Don't turn back!!!" (Chapter 841 Page 14) His legs have carried him so far and what is he going to do with them now. He is going to run towards his dreams, kick for his captain, and defend from anyone who stands in his way. The fast feet are so much more than we realize. They are his saviors.

[summer ermine]

hmm i see where you are coming from

[dusk sand]

Thus, we come to the conclusion. Robin has been with the Straw Hats for quite some time. By Enies Lobby, she has never been accepted, defended, or even loved properly. In her head, Saul and her mother, Nico Olivia, were the last two people ever to love her. And yet, here she finds people that are not only discarding her "betrayal" but even ignoring it. They don't care about what she's done in the past nor what she's been through. Luffy has always been the most selfless person, Zoro is going to walk forward in his captain's directions, Sanji is going to assist in every step of the way. Robin doesn't want to live and yet someone screams at her and tells her there is hope. So she screams back, "I want to live!" (Chapter 398 Page 18) There is a rebellious, no, revolutionary spirit in her. This is further reinforced by her sassy attitude when she says in Chapter 1005 Page 17, "I'd rather be dead!" This isn't a negative connotation though. She is saying she would rather give her life defending her Pirate King than joining Kaido as Black Maria suggests. Now we look at back at what Luffy says earlier in the story. "It's better than doing nothing while my friends are being take away!!" This isn't just a moment where Robin is doing something, its a moment where she's doing something way more than usual. She just saved Sanji's life after he was begging for help, someone leaned on her for protection and trusted her. Now obviously, this is just me, but I feel she has been underutilized throughout the story. But that doesn't mean Oda doesn't have a plan. This author has developed something special for this fight. We know Robin has never been pushed before to the extremes of almost dying like Nami VS Miss Littlefinger, Nami VS Ulti, Robin VS Hammond. (I'm using the girl fights as examples cause they seem to never go too far violence-wise aside from those two Nami ones) Robin has had big moments in the past where she's saved people like Luffy in Alabasta, but the stakes have never been so high. This is the best opportunity to show off not only her new moves that the crew can depend on so she can take care for herself, but also because she is a lot of pirates' targets in the New World. This is a Yonko crew and a pretty decent member of said crew. A Tobi Roppo. These guys are known for durability, endurance, and just outright scary tankiness. I expect Robin to use something new sure. She has only shown us that can make giant versions of her limbs. But, keep in mind, she has also been shown to make clones. Its as if Oda is telling the readers that because she was saved by the Straw Hats once, not only can she stop running out of fear for her life. She can stop hiding and start destroying the old identities she assumed to protect herself in the past. Anyone who fights her is going to be caught off guard by the fact that she can create clones. Its indicative of her character, just like Luffy's, Zoro's, and Sanji's above. Here is what I think. Oda is making sure Robin is not running from this fight, she is happier than she could ever be with an actual family who is giving her love. She is not going to back down.

So taking all of this into account. I conclude this powerup will be Dragon Blooming. Not the way you think though. Flowers are always known for decoration. They are often used in calm, celebratory, and romantic settings. Now in line with Robin's character. She has been an assassin for a lot of her life, on the run, using Clutch whenever she could on others. This is exactly what is going to happen. She will use some new moves on Black Maria. At first, they will seem effective but after some time Black Maria will gain the upper hand and deal Robin a devastating blow. In the final chapter of their fight, which I assume to be Chapter 1022 if not 1021. Black Maria will mock her, throw some insults but Robin will get up and declare she will be the hands that pave the way for Luffy to become the Pirate King. Then, dragon blooming. The time she spent with the Revolutionaries and particularly Sabo, was not wasted. He taught her the Dragon Claw but its not exactly teachable to someone who doesn't fight upfront using clawlike fingers. We know Robin already doesn't like things that make her look awkward or silly like Big Emperor in Thriller Bark. But the technique itself doesn't have to be clawlike. She easily can make it her own, all it involves is using your hands, or at least, that's what the readers think. Hell, she can even apply it to her legs as well becoming someone that can kick too! It won't be clawlike, they will bloom out ward in such where hands and legs reinforce her limbs and she becomes quicker. Robin is also constantly using her limbs to immobilize opponents. The Revolutionary Army tie into her personalty, drive, character, and are in direct line with going against the WG. The very same WG that took her childhood away. The only thing left to do is carry the weight of the fight and persevere for her Pirate King. What better way to illustrate that than to have her use something Sabo, Luffy's brother, not only taught her but its also something unique to herself? It belongs solely to her. Sanji cannot do Asura, Luffy can't do Diable Jambe, Zoro can't do Gear 2. It works the same way here. No one can do this dragon blooming, and that name can just be a placeholder. Robin can come up with a different name. What's even crazier is that it doesn't make her broken, its not awakening, its not CoA. This is her new moveset that she will use to help Luffy become the Pirate King. She has the hands that will literally guide him to the One Piece.

TL;DR Robin's powerup will be Dragon Blooming, similar to what Sabo uses, but instead of clawing away at her opponents, she will just have a stronger will and stronger limbs

[proud crystal]

so's letting a man get chopped into pieces and live
for real though i don't think we'll ever learn how they work exactly. devil fruits are how they are and trying to explain them might open up more confusion

[dusk sand]

@pure raven @ancient vault

Let me know what you all think

I need something to format it better, my apologies

[jagged leaf]

yep I agree. gotta be magic shit

[proud crystal]

yep! it's basically magic

also Vic i love your theory ❤️

[steep vigil]

My least favorite theory that is really possible is that law will die after beating kaido with luffy's help

[weary cliff]

I'll agree with this. He had a lot of interesting points, but the conclusions did not feel as "obvious" as he was making them out do be. Especially the connection between "Done Piece" and "Denies Lobby". That felt like a straight up meme.

Still, I wouldn't be surprised if the sun and moon stuff played out sort of like he said. If Roger thought Ace would be the one to succeed Joyboy, perhaps some part of that was from the fact that his parents were both D's. Two halves making a whole. I could totally see that being true of Luffy's mom

[dusk sand]

Oh really?

[runic osprey]

It could

[dusk sand]

Damn thanks lol, its my first one and again, sorry about the wall of text

[runic osprey]

But most likely he will get captured

[steep vigil]

Cus law only survived dressrosa by a very small time

[feral scroll]

i'm only halfway through lmao

[steep vigil]

Isn't law an ex marine?

[runic osprey]

Ex warlord

[errant nova]

*Sword member

[runic osprey]

But i really think law will get kidnapped

[visual merlin]

by who

[runic osprey]

Someone that will know the truth of his df power

[steep vigil]

Smoker or a admiral is the most likely imo

[modest skiff]

Is this person well known or something? The way people are responding to this theory is interesting and likely just an indication that there is a wide age distribution within the One Piece fandom

[visual merlin]

most likely to what

[steep vigil]

To capture law

[runic osprey]

Nah

[visual merlin]

Why is anyone capturing law though

[tight stump]

For the surgery

[runic osprey]

Yup

[proud crystal]

yw! and dont worry about it. it's nice to have meat to sink ur teeth into

[tight stump]

If they capture a person he cares about or revives someone 😍😍

[runic osprey]

His fruit can grant someone eternal life

[modest skiff]

No one sub-admiral is going to capture law unless its some stupid jank

[visual merlin]

law's been out there for a while without them trying that

[tight stump]

Hint hint

[visual merlin]

and why do we think they'd be able to catch him

[runic osprey]

Cause no one besides dolflamingo knows

[visual merlin]

then no one knows

[steep vigil]

I have a theory that Coby won't be as strong as Luffy but much more smarter to make up for the distance between them since water 7

[visual merlin]

and no one would go after him, lol

[runic osprey]

But someone will know

[tight stump]

Flamingo might talk

[visual merlin]

so someone besides doffy does know

and yet they have never gone after him

[weary cliff]

Beats me. I thought it could be Artur, but it doesn't seem like it

[runic osprey]

You think oda will hint such a power for nothing

[summer ermine]

coby is going to get a mad buff due to plot

[visual merlin]

no, he told us about it so when Imu has it we'll understand, potentially at least

[runic osprey]

My guess is blackbeard gonna find out

[visual merlin]

who does he find out from

[steep vigil]

One thing that makes me happy is that elbaf will be soon

[weary cliff]

I like this much more than shigan or haki or anything like that

[pure raven]

MF did you just make me read 90% of unrelated garbage for a theory that isn't even well explained. "just stronger will and stronger limbs". My gosh

[dusk sand]

LOL

[steep vigil]

Damn💀

[heady parrot]

unless something drastic happens i imagine elbaf is the next big arc with a mini arc with zou in between

[runic osprey]

He could go to impel down again and try to steal or recruit dolflamingo

[dusk sand]

Its not unrelated garbage

[pure raven]

I see what you meant, but damn it was too much haha

[modest skiff]

Vic, still working on reading your theory. One thing I like: People have realllly just ignored Robin's power to a pretty extremely degree. No one seems interested at all in understanding how it works or what its capabilities are. The flower component is a hint that I think a lot of people write off as just an aesthetic. I think it highlights the core mechanism of her power.

[jagged leaf]

Really love the explanations for their ability names really cool ideas there. Buuut no offense I think some of the explanations are kinda headcannon-y, like luffy becoming a child and zoro not knowing directions, i think is more a gag than anything else. I like the ideas a lot though.

As for the conclusion, I personally always considered Robin to be more of a recon member than a fighter. She's a super useful member of the crew, but she's never really fought head on. it'd be very interesting to see her forced to do that, but I think she'll probably be support against one of the big three more than anything else.

[dusk sand]

Yeah

[steep vigil]

Skypiea zoro had the best fit in all of one piece

[weary cliff]

I wouldn't call it just yet. Post wano is going to be the most chaotic period in the OP universe we've ever seen. Anything could happen. Also, don't forget when we were in Saboady, it also felt like we would be in Fishman Island soon :KataLul:

[modest skiff]

Look at WCI. Sure felt like Wano was right after Zou, right?

[jagged leaf]

I mean garp could

[dusk sand]

Yeah the explanations for their powers that I came up with were 100% me just giving it more than it actually has. The point was just to establish that Oda didn't give the SHs powers just to look cool and that each one serves a specific purpose in each of their own ways

[proud crystal]

the powers say something about the characters that use them

[jagged leaf]

very likely with his book and stuff

[runic osprey]

Yea i dont think marines will do it but i think blackbeard would

[dusk sand]

I thought to myself before Black Maria was setup to be her opponent that she should definitely more than the ordinary but I'm not super invested in her having the potential of getting awakening or CoA

[steep vigil]

Imagine the next villain in elbaf isn't shanks, but a clone of usopp

[modest skiff]

Yeah I still think BB is going for some kinda holy trinity of powers that essentially give him a "checkmate" method of destroying Marie Jois. I have always suspected Law will be a part of it because his power is just so strong

[jagged leaf]

cp0 might try some shit tho

[runic osprey]

Yea and not only that he can go back to impel down and try recruiting dolflamingo qnd thats how he will know

[tight stump]

I mean they are only there tecnically for who’s who

[modest skiff]

That's all that they have mentioned and their objectives may change

[jagged leaf]

Gomu gomu no mi for giantification ? 👀

[runic osprey]

Yea 100% like a lot of people forgot about how important law is he will be captured

[modest skiff]

If you can stretch other things, you can stretch other people, shrug (awakening?? i dunno doesn't feel good)

[jagged leaf]

Well obviously they want to know wtf will happen to wano and the yonko too. Cp0 will let the WG know exactly how shit went down so wholecake doesn't happen again

[tight stump]

[jagged leaf]

I mean gear 3rd tho

[modest skiff]

I have tried to frame this within the context of BB either wanting to block out sunlight or destroying Marie Jois. I still think eliminating sunlight is his actual goal, but it could also be Marie Jois

[jagged leaf]

lineage factor that shit into people?

[proud crystal]

lifespan stretching is a p popular theory from what i've been reading, or at least used to be

[modest skiff]

I still think its to open a gate/door that is too small right now. If you can stretch the door out, you can travel to (blank)

[tight stump]

Maybe that island you can only see at night or in complete darkness or something

[jagged leaf]

Awakening turning his surroundings into rubber

[tight stump]

All potential energy is useless lmao

[modest skiff]

I don't think its something as simple as destruction. I think if Luffy's fruit really is important for some specific purpose, it is a very technical thing. That's why I think there is a door that is physically too small for anything to go through, so they need awakening gomu to stretch it out large enough to open/go through

[jagged leaf]

I mean I could see luffy getting creative and after getting smacked away using the enemies own energy against them by bouncing back at em

[proud crystal]

or get a tonatta to open it?

[modest skiff]

I'm imagining a door that is essentially the size of a piece of sand

[jagged leaf]

I agree. has to be suuuuper specific or they get him as a rookie

also do you think shanks stole the fruit as a coincidence or he was going after it?

[proud crystal]

yeah THAT would need something special
and i imagine it'd be strong enough that not just any john doe with a buzzsaw or chisel or whatever could break a larger hole into the wall, wherever it is

[tight stump]

Coincidence

[jagged leaf]

hard to say without knowing the specifics but it was probably pretty undercover

[pure raven]

@dusk sand , after eating some of that word salad with 2L of water on the side to help me chug it down, I can see that I like the premise tho, the childhood, lacking directions, consuming your own leg. They are powers that are very well related to their characters. Not having to hide is an amazing connection to Robin, I love it - she no longer needs to do spy work all the time, she can go head on against the opponent and scream her name to the world. Then you jump into dragon blooming and you lose me - a power that is only hers but is also Sabo's (or the revos') teachings, unspecified... this was more of an analysis of her character's position in this fight than a theory on what her power will be. A new moveset, but in what way?

[jagged leaf]

cp9 and all being involved

[modest skiff]

My theory is that either a door or a chest or some other thing is in Marie Jois and they are 100% incapable of opening it. So they built Marie Jois on top of whatever it is so no one else even knows what it is. I think Doffy imagined he might be able to also make it work with Law's fruit. So that's why one of my theories is that its some kinda glyph material made into a door/chest/whatever. Maybe Law's power can go inside it to pull something out. Or maybe Luffy's power can stretch around to get inside. Or Luffy's power makes something bigger.

I essentially have no idea what it is, but I feel very confident Marie Jois has something that is totally beyond their grasp and they are mad about that

[steep vigil]

Would it make sense for boa to join luffy's crew, and the Amazon lily pirates are members of the grand fleet?

[summer ermine]

no

[tight stump]

Fruits come up so randomly I don’t think the WG ~~most peope ~~would have a reason to tell anyone what fruit it was unless it was someone important’s previously or a high ranking person found it in a public space

[summer ermine]

what do u guys think about another straw hat gaetting a fruit

[jagged leaf]

would put it beyond them knowing how petty CD are

[proud crystal]

oh that's coooooooooooooolllllllll...i hope it's something like that. something mysterious and implicative of deeper mystery...

[steep vigil]

It should be usopp tbh, he deserves it the most cus he has to fight warlords with just a slingshot

[tight stump]

Mmmmm I like some straw hats being able to swim please

[jagged leaf]

yes but luffy says GOMU GOMU NO before all his abilities it's kinda hard to not understand "oh he's made of rubber"

[modest skiff]

My hope is that it is a portal to wherever the AK went. I think the AK just were like "Alright forget you guys, we're outta here" and left through some gateway. They left people behind directions of how to reach them, but you need a bunch of stuff to all line up at the right time or it doesn't work.

[proud crystal]

says a lot about him that he's so formidable with it ❤️ plus i think he's meant to be one of the weakest members, so i doubt he's gettin one

[tight stump]

I thought u were talking about shanks stealing it and if that was a cover up job lmao u right tho

[steep vigil]

Actually wait, instead of usopp eating a devil fruit, maybe his slingshot will get the devil fruit

[jagged leaf]

Nami gets the Yuki Yuki logia?

[proud crystal]

hah, maybe! like a stargate, almost...

[jagged leaf]

oh no I agree with u thats it a coincidence

[modest skiff]

Chevron 7 locked

[tight stump]

We’ve seen it too many times not to see how VP does it

[dusk sand]

Its a bit of a blueprint. She doesn't need to fight from a distance anymore and it only borrows the namesake from Sabo. I brought up the Revolutionary and their role involved with her because I think it would be neat for her to have learned something from them combatwise. If it wasn't the case, then I would just suggest she makes her own new moveset. It doesn't on her always keeping a distance away from opponents. Its more direct, she hits their pressure points, their weak spots, their openings. No need for clawlike shape, something more gentle looking. Like a soft slap with one of her giant hands but it does way more damage and hits the enemies' sweetspot. I don't have the idea 100% in mind but it was something I wanted more to be in direct opposition to get her getting CoA or awakening. A new grouping of moves if you will.

[jagged leaf]

I wish ceaser was smarter to give us more than smiles

[tight stump]

He’s a clown

[jagged leaf]

wish he was more like his brother GANGSTER GASTINO

[proud crystal]

robin dopeslap would be incredible to witness
maybe with a hundred hands at once...

[modest skiff]

after eating some of that word salad with 2L of water on the side to help me chug it down

[tight stump]

That was the best filler arc tho I’m dumb

[jagged leaf]

Robin with haki would basically be elephant gun and gatling but with the ACTUAL amount of arms

[jagged leaf]

by far yes

the best FILLER LIKE THE DAVY BACK FIGHT

[proud crystal]

god yes
oda please do it we've been so good this year

[jagged leaf]

dude ussop with armament haki tho would be so strong

[dusk sand]

For real

[jagged leaf]

although unsure how haki works with bullets

it works yes but no clue how

[tight stump]

Can you put armament into projectiles? No. Do I wish you could? Yes

Baby 5 probably can tho

[jagged leaf]

explain ben Beckman with a gun tho 👀

[weary cliff]

You can absolutely. The first users in the series did it

[tight stump]

Oh

[jagged leaf]

pointing it at kizaru

boy put his arms up and everything (even tho it was a joke )

[tight stump]

How tf did I miss that

[proud crystal]

don't the amazons put haki in their arrows?

[tight stump]

I’m the real clown

[jagged leaf]

we've never seen it explicitly done dw

like we haven't had a scene where gun go black

[astral fractal]

yes we have, on amazon lily

[jagged leaf]

oh shit lemme look that up

[tight stump]

They touch the arrow tho

[jagged leaf]

o ye

[modest skiff]

#manga-theories message here is a link to vic's theory for anyone who doesn't want it to get lost

[jagged leaf]

they broke through walls and shit that's true

[jagged leaf]

wish we could pin theories

[modest skiff]

just keep a notepad like the rest of us obsessed folks

[peak cape]

So do awakened Zoans lose a lot of intelligence because the ones in Impel Down seem pretty stupid and don't talk.

[jagged leaf]

yeah true but I think the main point is the "keeping the haki on the projectile after its released", since you could argue that the user of a gun touches the pistol and by extension the bullet

altho I wanted to see arrows go black

[modest skiff]

This has been a point of contention for a lot of people. Personally I think the ooga booga component of the awakening will be slowly sidestepped. Some people say we are wrongly attributing stupidity to them. I disagree, I think it was intentional, but I also think it won't be what happens going forward. They will find a way to have a zoan not be a liability, lol. I buy the idea that they were never dumb to begin with and just brutish...kinda....but not really.

[jagged leaf]

I always thought the zoans in impel down were kind of OP (before haki at least) but if u smack em with a good conquerors punch would they go down for good?

[peak cape]

Maybe. Maybe it depends on the type. Like a normal Zoan awakening has negatives meanwhile a mythical one maybe doesn't have those drawbacks.

[modest skiff]

Zoans would be the only one with a downside, which would be weird. Increased regeneration but you are dumb seems like a terrible trade. So that’s why people just say the dumb isn’t real

[grizzled fog]

People say the dumb wasn’t real because they honestly didn’t act particularly dumb lol

[jagged leaf]

Reminds me of this theory I have where rumble ball is a artificial awakening for chopper. Since big chopper in Enias lobby could be compared to the prison boiz

really wanna see another zoan eat a rumble ball tho to see wtf happens

[gloomy latch]

Lol

[jagged leaf]

they could just be insane. would match the impel down asthetic to have these random boiz that just beat people up for no reason

[modest skiff]

Not particularly, but there was clearly a slightly ooga booga component. I would argue any cognitive cost for regeneration is a terrible trade

[tight stump]

What is this

[peak cape]

It is Impel Down pretty much everyone but Maggelan seemed a bit dumb.

[jagged leaf]

Impel down discussion of awakened zoans

Allllso completely unrelated buttt, who tf has Toki's (oden's wife) DF now?

[modest skiff]

For all we know, they already went 800 years in the future

Toki's fruit is probably the rarest of all due to its ability to not exist for long periods of time

[peak cape]

I just assume no one. That fruits relevance is done really.

I guess it could become relevant if a really big time skip happens.

[weary cliff]

Yeah if we're lucky it's out of the story. Maybe we get an easter egg near the EOS

[peak cape]

I don't really see how it could impact anything that's going to happen now. At max all the dominoes should start falling within 5 years in universe right?

[weary cliff]

What I would love to see is during the epilogue when we revisit Wano with adult Momo/Tama that there's a semi distinct background character who is identical to a background character from the Oden flashback

[jagged leaf]

literally never irrelevant

in the world I mean not the story

wait couldn't users theoretically meet other users? so we'd have some loki shit

[modest skiff]

Not if I had it my way, lol. I'm a "2000 chapters minimum plz" kinda guy

[weary cliff]

No. If a current user is in any given time frame, then they haven't died yet for someone else to eat it and also jump to that time.

[jagged leaf]

ohh so you can't travel back?

[modest skiff]

only forward

[jagged leaf]

I probably just missed that mb. yeah makes a lot more sense

[modest skiff]

Some people wondered if awakened meant you can go back. I personally think Toki's awakening is the reason she could send others through time rather than just herself

[jagged leaf]

like she'd just save Oden otherwise

[peak cape]

Toki had it for a long time. Honestly I don't think the fruit will have had many users. If nothing else the fruit makes it really hard for you to die because you can just run to the future.

[weary cliff]

I don't want to clown on you, but yeah they brought it up like 3 times to illustrate stuff like that lol

[jagged leaf]

Ngl didn't pay too much attention to her character lmfao

I'll re-read that flashback stuff since I probably missed some other shit too

[modest skiff]

lol and then there's me "wait, did I miss a word, I should re-read the chapter"

[jagged leaf]

seems like one hell of a dangerous fruit tho ngl

[weary cliff]

In fact, it's almost definitely the fruit with the fewest users in history. Second only to if Imu had a fruit and if he has been immortal for 800 years

[jagged leaf]

what if he's recieved law's fruit surgery?

[modest skiff]

To our knowledge that does not count as having a devil fruit power

[weary cliff]

That's what I'm saying. Then his theoretical fruit has also been locked into one user for the whole story

[peak cape]

How long have DFs even been about?

[jagged leaf]

well more his eternal life than a DF power

[weary cliff]

At least 800 years

[modest skiff]

I think most people assume Imu had the surgery and is immortal

[jagged leaf]

but like again HOW would you let a DF that's crazy slip away

either some crazy shit happened in the war or DFs have autonomy

[peak cape]

So it's honestly possible Toki was the only user in the history of the fruit.

[modest skiff]

Maybe, we have no idea

[jagged leaf]

I'm kinda leaning towards autonomy tho. because of what happens when weapons eat DFs

[weary cliff]

It's possible. Unless there's been a new user

[pure raven]

Is the jumping in the future always 20 years or whatever it was, or can she specify?

[jagged leaf]

it was implied she knew smt was gonna happen 20 years from then, probably part of the joyboy prophecy. It's probably safe to assume she can specify the time

[queen arrow]

she knew something was gonna happen in 20 years because Oden half-spoiled it for her

[proud crystal]

how did oden know it would be 20y again?

[weary cliff]

LT, presumably

[runic osprey]

Could definitely be the case

What if things go really south and luffy is deadly hurt then law performs the surgery to save his life and make him immortal because it was the only way

[pure raven]

Something related to laugh tale ig

[modest skiff]

We are left to assume someone would still die of unnatural injuries. Law's power would be able to essentially freeze a medical situation so he could help Luffy anyway

[bronze palm]

If Big Mom can create multiple thunderclouds at the same time, for example, when she created Hera, Zeus didn’t disappear or die, with this path, why can’t she make a female version of Prometheus and female version of Napoleon because then she has many Homies to protect her and also to fight alongside her.

I feel like Big mom’s devil fruit has an awakening and/or limitations to it. She could make countless of special Homies.

Last thing, we also did not get to see how Hera was made so I guess it’s off screen on purpose?? : o

This is just my opinion.

[stuck ore]

Idk about her df limits

But there is limit to how much soul she has

[scenic thicket]

and luffy lives eternally watching his crew grow old and die around him as hes powerless to do anything?

[tight stump]

i wonder if there are consequenses for taking out too much of her own soul

[scenic thicket]

the consequences are missing out on life and being with ppl the user cerishes

[tight stump]

or shes easier to mind control

[dry dirge]

she has the ability to eat souls.. shall we assume that she replenishes herself?

[tight stump]

is a soul like caloric energy then

[dry dirge]

nah she definitely be having that caloric energy regardless of soul energy

if u know what I'm sayin'

[stuck ore]

The only thing I can think of is shortened age

[dry dirge]

broken df tbh

[tight stump]

MEGA broken

especially cause shes a giant and therefore lives longer

would bonney be more affective against her do yall think?

[grizzled fog]

Big mom? She isn’t a giant

[tight stump]

why have i been so dumb today

[tight stump]

Random thought, has someone already touched on the specific use of awaken instead of unlock ne ability or something else? For me personally: awakened fruit makes me think, there’s a person, soul or devil inside that fruit. Has someone written something like that already?

Some df are way too specifically broad to be made by one person or one project

[cedar sinew]

no

because that's pretty much baseless