manga-theories

[ancient vault]

his back is fcked

[eternal cave]

The Smiles are created from extracting Lineage factor from animals and mixed with Cesar’s gas, besides Kaido is there any references to other DF users being experimented on? I think logia and Paramecia smiles haven’t been created because how would you Extract Lineage factor from something like fire.
But back to Zoans, has any DF users been documented as being experimented on to create Smiles ?

[queen arrow]

i mean that's not something that can't happen to humans

btw post the full pic

[ancient vault]

On smiles particularly I dont think so

[queen arrow]

Smiles only use real animal dna (probably why Tama's fruit affects them), the only artificial zoan using someone's DNA is Momo's fruit

[ancient vault]

Well hes giant (?), has horns and an axe which looks like an ogre/oni to me

he was drawn bigger than the birds and the birds are huge

[queen arrow]

i don't think that's to scale

[ancient vault]

true lmfao

[willow idol]

on the horns, if they do have meaning, you think they could be CoCting use related?

[ancient vault]

No. I dont think its haki related cause why tf u coating ur horns but dont use them

Also dont understand why it only happens in hybrid form

This is all on the basis of assuming oda isnt doing a poor, wacky art choice here

[queen arrow]

are any of these horn colorings in a volume already

[ancient vault]

All but hybrid kaido which will be on volume cover 101 i think tho

[queen arrow]

uuuh

[queen arrow]

well i guess it was a dumb question since they're all recent stuff

because it's Kaido's hybrid

maybe the inconsistencies on the horn coloring will be fixed in the volumes

[ancient vault]

Maybe yeah. Just dont get what exactly is so hard on coloring it fully dark every chapter. Like I get if he missed a few panels but this looks so intentional

For some reason this is completely white shaded but ig thats just cause its a sketch

[modest skiff]

What chapter is this from?

[queen arrow]

maybe it's supposed to be just a bit dark but Oda isn't sure about how much is enough

[ancient vault]

253

[ancient vault]

i mean queen has given me enough lessons so thats why im not committing fully yet but I just wanted to point it out

[agile bear]

Any other theory aside the horn theory?

[ancient vault]

on Kaido? Or in connection to the horn?

Or generally just theories?

[agile bear]

Generally, anything, just not the horn

[ancient vault]

We got long written, well thought out theories pinned with the topics on display choose whatever u wanna read about

!pins

[lone hedge]

PC:
Check for 📌 at the top right of your screen.

Mobile:
Click on the channel’s name at the top of your screen or swipe to the left, then search for 📌.

[agile bear]

Yh, I saw that but I am new here. I see the theories have been discussed already

[ancient vault]

You can always start a discussion about them again if you want tho.
Or you bring up a new idea yourself and discuss it with others in here to come to a conclusion

[agile bear]

https://tenor.com/view/caesar-the-clown-gif-21370370

[modest skiff]

Kinda baseless shot in the dark: the deeper into a fight Kaido gets, the more intense his horns get. Perhaps if he was to become fully bloodlusted (perhaps this is why he wants to fight Joyboy) he can fully blacken his horns, perhaps fully black horns do something special. Yamato having white/red horns may indicate something separate. Perhaps their horns can become a color based on the emotion they are fighting with. Kaido is fighting for a reason that turns his horns black. Yamato is fighting for a reason that turns hers red, or something. Again, baseless, but all we got is colors so may as well try

[pure raven]

to be painted bro

[ancient vault]

!pics

[lone hedge]

Get a role (pirate/revo/marine/civilian) in #old-role-info to be able to post pictures!

[ancient vault]

yeah thats what I meant with sketch

[ancient vault]

Yamatos horns are permanently red tho. Even in human form and even as a child. Also the horns started turning red at the beginning of his hybrid transformation vs yamato right at the start of the fight (pic)
And well again. Why does it turn off so suddenly when hes in human form again? I did think about bloodlust too and that this might be the moment where he goes berserk (maybe he kills yamato accidentally )

[modest skiff]

Great thoughts swrml. Another thing to consider: perhaps the horns dynamic is why Kaido gets captured and never killed. The longer the fight goes, more black the horns, eventually Kaido becomes unbeatable. So you either capture him before that point or you lose, but you probably don’t kill him because he’s just very durable. So that might be why he’s been captured so many times. There might be some infinitely building dynamic where the longer he fights the more likely he is to win

[pastel sinew]

Man, my head is so big that I need Joyboy’a strawhat to fit my dome

[ancient vault]

There might be some infinitely building dynamic where the longer he fights the more likely he is to win

I like that tho that'd be insane considering like 90% of his opponents he defeats within the first minute

[willow idol]

so i reread 1018 to and 1010 and noticed horns almost completely became white again for a panel after he used ragnarok, interesting stuff

[ancient vault]

the tip is still black on the right one. Its so inconsistent

[clever hollow]

My theory is that luffy actually has a devil fruit

[crude ridge]

wait whats this horn theory about

[ancient vault]

Right after. He mightve just forgotten the left one

[willow idol]

yea seems so

[ancient vault]

@willow idolpage right after so makes sense

[ancient vault]

#manga-theories message

[modest skiff]

Consider this idea: this would mean Kaido wants to get as close to death as he can, ultimately, to achieve his highest form of power. Kaido being suicidal is dumb and makes no sense. Him wanting to approach the brink of death to become his most powerful self makes sense to me

[ancient vault]

Mhm thats one interesting way

he did compliment yamato on his strength this chapter and his horns turned almost fully dark

Okay but then why did that color manifest permanently on Yamatos horns

And again that still doesnt explain the sudden disappearance and appearance of the color

I dont think we're geting any further than this so lets just stop and wait for this to be adressed hopefully

[crude ridge]

So

what is the point??

[ancient vault]

Related to their DNA means their race. Also to understand how DNA works in OP and how DF powers like the hybrid form can maybe affect it. A permanent color change is nothing special but a steadily growing color is weird especially if it only occurs in a specific form

[pure raven]

Oni design maybe?

[ancient vault]

whos the oni?

Roosta are you writing up sth long? lol You've been typing for a while now

[pseudo citrus]

yeah lol and editing it, but it's not related to yours so I figured I'd wait to not interrupt the discussion lol

[ancient vault]

nah go ahead and post it this discussion is dead anyways now

[pseudo citrus]

Theory: Yamato is the "Moon" of Toki's prophecy.You are the moon unaware of the dawn... May your purpose be fulfilled... and cast nine shadows on the night woven of 20 years... and you shall know the brilliance of the dawn.-Toki rode away from the castle to announce the prophecy to the crowd watching the castle burning. We also know that Yamato witnessed Kaido holding Momonosuke out of the castle, so it's reasonable to guess that Yamato may have been in this crowd, meaning Toki could have been speaking directly to them.
-The "dawn" here could refer to freedom, so being "unaware of the dawn" would refer to the imprisonment, and "know the brilliance of the dawn" could refer to freedom after Kaido falls
-The fulfillment of the purpose could refer to "becoming Oden", which as many speculate will come to an end after Wano is opened.
-I'm not sure what casting nine shadows means, especially with several Akazaya down for the count... but it could be that some combination of Strawhats/Supernova/Akazaya totaling nine will help Yamato defeat Kaido. A spicy option is Yamato and the 9 Strawhats beating Kaido, with Luffy arriving to defeat Big Mom or the "next" big enemy that hasn't shown themselves yet.
-Yamato's DF has fire, meaning that, for what it's worth, they can literally cast shadows.
I thought of this theory mostly because it bothered me that Toki's prophecy never really made sense, so I've always wondered what the "Moon" is. My first thought seeing Yamato's hybrid form was that they look like a werewolf, which reminded me of the missing moon from the prophecy. Yamato also appears next to Luffy on two volume covers, and Luffy is associated with the sun. Finally, ||moon is tsuki, and tsuki isn't far from a Goroawase "29" 🙊 ||

[hollow grotto]

That's a unique perspective on the Toki prophecy and one I much prefer to the obvious theories about it.

[ancient vault]

the "next" big enemy that hasn't shown themselves yet.
Just to clear things up. That was a mistranslation.

Now the fire part is interesting

[pseudo citrus]

what's the obvious interpretation for who/what the moon was?

[pseudo citrus]

yeah that was just spitballing in case it does happen, which I doubt

[hollow grotto]

The message 'You are the moon unaware of the dawn', in common theory, just refers to the people of Wano collectively.

rather than an individual, it means all of Wano

[ancient vault]

So this is why you were asking in #also-manga

[pseudo citrus]

ah, that would make sense also... but then the "cast nine shadows" is a bit weird, unless it's luffy casting the shadows I guess?

[modest skiff]

Agreed, we’re way past the point of extrapolation

[hollow grotto]

It's all a bit weird which is why I like your theory a lot, because it plays into all aspects of the prophecy's speech. The only complaint I'd have is why Toki would be referring to Yamato specifically

since they don't seem to have met, even if she was present when Oden died

[pseudo citrus]

we'd have to know more about the prophecy to understand, but if I had to guess: Toki dumped Oden's journal and made the prophecy knowing someone would fulfill it, Yamato is just the one that happened to be there and have the motivation

[wise knoll]

Luffy is smal boi

[hollow grotto]

Fair enough, I can buy that - good theory!

maybe if you have a reread, you might find some more information to support it, always worth checking it out

[ancient vault]

I dont really see the connection of werewolf and yamatos DF tbh

but you said at first glance so I get that

[pseudo citrus]

I don't actually think it's a werewolf, but that's just what sparked the idea in my head 😄

[ancient vault]

Btw I was serious about the solar eclipse option

[hollow grotto]

I've heard a popular theory recently that Yamato's fruit is the Kirin.

[ancient vault]

#manga-theories message

Oli didnt start it but here is written out why

[modest skiff]

One minor thought here: DNA is different from lineage factor. One Piece uses Lineage Factor in place of DNA because it also applies to inorganic things

[hollow grotto]

ah awesome, and it's by oli

[ancient vault]

white about bloodline elements? Isnt that the same as DNA?

[modest skiff]

From what I can tell, and of course I don’t know this for sure, but lineage factor seems to be the whole thing, bloodline included. It’s just not the same as IRL, and it seems intentionally so

[ancient vault]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/lk5n0h/dawn_and_the_celestial_dragons/ @pseudo citrus Maybe this gives you new ideas

[ancient vault]

I see

[hollow grotto]

That explanation pretty much sold me on Yamato being a Kirin - it'd be shocking if they were something else now

Too much fits historically speaking, wonder if Oda will try to sneak one on us

[pseudo citrus]

interesting, I like it... it still feels like Toki's prophecy is something that should be fulfilled within Wano, but this would also be cool, or even a double satisfaction of the prophecy

[ancient vault]

it could be both potentially

[modest skiff]

I do agree that planetary alignment will absolutely be a thing. An eclipse could be said to be the moon having total dominion over the planet for a little bit. It could also be another planet that causes an eclipse, based on the diagrams in Ohara

I’m still pretty firm on the idea that shirahoshi’s birth related to some sort of planet aligning with the one piece planet. When all of the important planets align, all the important players are present at the same time, so now the CDs can finally be defeated. But if you only have 1 or 2 of them at any given time, doesn’t work out. Needs everything

[ember trench]

W

[modest skiff]

I completely agree with your analysis archer

[ancient vault]

Uranus could be a device/technology that allows you to move the moon causing an artificial solar eclipse and complete darkness over the world. If teach does this and the theory that his darkness powers are limited due to the sunlight/moonlight then he might just go complete berserk in his ultimate form and luffys job is to either move or break the moon, freeing the sun and causing the dawn

[ancient vault]

Wonder what this means for Enel whos doing stuff in space

[modest skiff]

My prediction is that Enel is essentially an ancient kingdom weeb. His entire existence is for their sake. He went to the moon for them, not himself. The whole god thing ended up being what happens when a weeb gets actual power.

As for BB, I still think his goal is to block out the sun and freeze the oceans, since I also still think he's from the poles

[ember trench]

It is very clear then that the Moon represents the celestial dragons, and the World Govt. by extension. I mean, they wear space suits.

😒

[ancient vault]

Why do I feel complete disgust 💀

[modest skiff]

at what i said or what archer said lol

[ancient vault]

the emoji

[ancient vault]

are you referring to the pic where hes sitting down because that snow was fake it wasnt snow. If youre referring to Luffys comment on not sleeping then okay

But why freeze the ocean

[amber oar]

to freeze the ocean, wouldn't have been easier to target Kuzan's df?

[modest skiff]

@ancient vault quoting myself to explain my BB theory again

[ancient vault]

I've seen a theory that burgess is a 3 eyed person

So the freezing part is more or less just additional because in the dark he awakens his full potential of the fruit and can now rule over the world in complete darkness?

or wait no the pole people

[modest skiff]

That’s my theory at least. No more sun light means everything freezes, no more oceans

[reef grotto]

is there a list of theories that ended up being true?

[ancient vault]

here? no but ig you can google a bit

[dusky acorn]

Like, just from users here? No, but that would be pretty cool to compile sometime

[ancient vault]

Big Mom frees Sasaki W for me

[ancient vault]

That makes sense that would also mean no piracy anymore

[tired osprey]

i did start it!!!

[pure raven]

Second part of the theory of how luffy could come back against kaido .

this one is less or more possible than the first one, but still I like the idea and I feel it has some big chance especially due to the current location of luffy after he lost against kaido in chapter 1019 ( I will explain later ) .
( if you didn’t read the first part of the theory scroll up or click the tag )

2. LUFFY Get a weapon to use while also coating it like kaido do.

If you did read the first part you will understand that luffy will need a new way to fight kaido , if he doesn’t improve his gears or correct the draw back problem of gear 4 even with conquerors coating, luffy couldn’t win against kaido so we supposed he could improve his gear 2 in the first part of the theorie.

but , if you look at the fight from different angle and analyse with me, you can see that luffy durability is very big too with gear 4 or not , kaido in his dragon form couldn’t knock off luffy in both fights, the only way kaido managed to beat luffy in a K.O is by transforming into a human form and using his weapon the KANABO a club , while also coating it with conquerors haki .

-so we can suppose that coating conquerors haki in a weapon is way more dangerous and fatal than using it in your limbs like hands or legs like luffy did , maybe in a weapon it can get a bigger penetration power effect . and that’s the second explanation of kaido’s statement after beating luffy : ‘’ So you infused yourself with the color of supreme king … , but your use of it was crude and clumsy !! then he says: gomu gomu … was it ? ‘’

-couldn’t that imply that the crudeness is due to luffy using his fist maybe he should use a weapon instead of relying on his devil fruit while coating his fist ? weapon CoC coating > Body CoC coating

-just be open minded with me here , look at all the yonko’s from roger to black beard they all had weapons only luffy do not have one till now , most pirate use one , and most fatal wounds kaido received were from weapons .

-now let us assume that maybe there is some chance for all of this being true ! what more explicit information did we get from oda , telling us that luffy could get a weapon.

Luffy from the moment he get into wano he get to test fighting with a katana , which for me is a hint from oda for others its just for fan and artistic purpose. And a lot of cover page from the start of wano , we got a luffy with a katana or a weapon .
Luffy when he was little used a staff like both his brothers so using one now will not be completely new for him .

The monst important hint : Let me tell you now, the story of Sun Wukong briefly :

In Sun wukong story to get stronger to face his enemy he search for a suitable weapon for him , and only found it in the country governed by dragon king which is located in the east from china , so in japan . he get a staff after fighting the dragon king and obliging him to give a weapon that would suits him because sun wukong didn’t find one .

[ The staff first appears in the third chapter when the Monkey King goes to the underwater kingdom of Ao Guang, the Dragon King of the East Sea, looking for a magic weapon to match his strength and skill. When all of the traditional magic weapons—swords, spears, and halberds weighing thousands of pounds each—fail to meet his standards, the dragon queen suggests to her husband that they give Sun a useless iron pillar taking up space in their Ocean treasury by which the depth of the Heavenly River [the Milky Way] is fixed . She claims that the ancient shaft had started producing heavenly light days prior and suggests that the monkey is fated to own it. The novel never explains how the pillar was made, only that it was originally used by Yu the Great to measure the depths of the world flood during times immemorial. ]

Now lets put out the similarities between luffy’s story and sun wukong story :

• Luffy’s name monkey / Sun wukong is a monkey
• Luffy is a D. going against the celestial dragons / Sun wukong was a devil going against Gods
• Luffy went to wano to beat kaido / Sun Wukong went to japan to beat Ao Guang.
• Kaido is an azure blue dragon / Ao Guang is an azure blue dragon
• Wano is what japan in one piece
• Kaido has a daughter / Ao Guang has also a daughter
• Luffy fight kaido …..( try filling this (…) space after reading till the end )/ Sun wukong fight Ao Guang and get a weapon after that in the ocean treasury.

Now that we confirmed that there is very high chance oden is inspired by sun wukong journey to the east for luffy’s journey to wano , we can assume that maybe like Sun wukong acquired his staff luffy will also get maybe a staff in wano.

Especialy don’t forget that in wano : The Wano Country is the world's foremost in smithing and metallurgy, having produced both several superior artisans and craftsmen such as the legendary swordsmiths Kotetsu, Shimotsuki Kozaburo, and Tenguyama Hitetsu. The former ruling Kozuki Family invented the indestructible Poneglyphs during the Void Century. Weapons produced in Wano are of high quality, as the World Government have secretly imported the Marines' weapon supply from Wano. According to Law, the Beast Pirates' monopoly of Wano Country's supply of high-quality weapons is what ensured Kaido's domination in the New World.

There is high chance this is an arc not only for luffy’s haki advancing but also acquiring a weapon.

Now lets talk about luffy’s current location in chapter 1019 after falling from kaido’s attack in the sea , he was rescued by Trafalgar law submarine, which means he will be transported under the sea , then don’t forget that Sun Wukong staff was under the ocean of the east kingdom. is it really another coincidence from oda getting luffy under the ocean ? maybe they will find something underground or some place underground where he might find a weapon ? a place where kaido put the weapons he forged in wano or a weapon left from 800 years ago from the void century of wano ? or something under covered after onigashima detached and is floating? , any way I know I’m jumping too quickly in conclusion , but the mythology is still here and the similarities are too much to not be true . all this are just assumptions of what may happen next.

Information good to know : [ The staff Sun wukong took was used by an Asian king to measure the depth of the ocean so that they can predict a flood , maybe there is also a staff like this in wano more or less ? ]

Anyway all of this is only a theory I hope its true , you should look at the picture .

Sun Wukong with his staff

forging in wano

luffy in the submarine

@pure raven @ancient vault @glad rain

go to this tag if you want to read the first part of my theory

[fading thorn]

headcannon: when the medicine zoro gets wears off and feels double the pain, hes gonna make a remark about how it feels the same as what he felt in nothing happened, luffy overhears this and then its how he finds out what zoro did back in thriller bark

[ancient vault]

I thought everyone just collectively went qilin

@pure raven I'll read it later kind of busy rn

[modest skiff]

Thank you, I’m gonna read this later when I have a moment. I’ve been considering the idea of Luffy ending up with a sword and didn’t much care for it the more I thought about it. Browsing through your theory briefly, I love the monkey king angle with the staff. Will report back when I’ve read it all. Thanks 🙂

[pure raven]

Thanks ping me later with your opinion about it

[modest skiff]

Wow just wanted to first say I really love the idea of Luffy’s power being as simple as expansion and contraction.

I have made a big deal out of it a million times and no one ever cares: Kuma “bouncing” pain from Luffy to Zoro showed fruits can be unbelievably flexible. If Luffy can expand not only himself but perhaps even ideas, you could perhaps relate that to the stretching of a dawn across an ocean. When dawn begins, you could consider it stretching across an ocean. Certainly a lot to say there with essentially rebeling against the CDs by expanding the new dawn etc, something like that. @pure raven

[tired osprey]

did you the read the books or something? impressive knowledge about journey to the west

[reef grotto]

I'm not gonna read a theory about luffy getting a weapon, but it's clear that luffy will just use gear 4th in combination with a better use of CoC to beat kaido

perhaps he'll use a new gear 4th form

but that's it

[neat shoal]

tudo mentira

all lie

[pure raven]

Maybe but what happened till now say the opposite, of what you said, + I didn't say that luffy will for sure get a weapon I just make some suggestions based on some logical evidence and mythical story that maybe oda used for inspiration, also in part 1 I talked about how luffy could improve his gear to fight kaido if you interested you should read it, but I'm a little doubtful that what all it take to win against kaido is to simply get better at using CoC.

[pure raven]

Yes a litle not too much I'm going to focus on reading it for sure after having some free time

[clever pebble]

omg she does look like Kirin
@bitter moth nine tailed fox already taken and fox don't have horn

[amber oar]

Yamato has horns in the first place, but yeah, kirin is the strongest bet imo

[clever pebble]

though Kirin have horse feet, and she doesn't
but yeah Kirin is good guess
and it doesn't look that strong too so i hope she got a hidden power

[grizzled fog]

I mean I’m sure it has some extra abilities but we surely can’t judge its strength just based on its appearance lol. Looks like it could be a beast to me quite easily

She’s also been 1v1ing kaido so we know it’s strong

[loud shuttle]

yo

what do you think about the zodiac fruit from yamato

[polar bison]

yamato doesn’t get antlers so it’s highly unlikely they’re a kirin imo

[grizzled fog]

I heard someone suggest Raiju earlier, but I’m not well enough versed in eastern mythos to know if that fits. Thoughts?

[ancient vault]

Alright so Im amazed at your detailed knowlege about the sun wukong legend. I have to say getting a new random weapon out of nowhere for Luffy would seem very random and like an asspull especially if that staff is supposed to be sth special. I think it'd be more acceptable if it was just some random stab luffy picked up somewhere and turned into a weapon himself somehow.
Additionally ig you could see Luffy with the nakama as a hint but thats more than 100 chapters ago and we've never seen him fight with a weapon again in that arc which makes the majority of readers jsut forget he was playing with a sword at the beginning of the arc, completely nullifying the potential satisfaction of such hint.
And lastly the problem lies with nami. She already has a staff that can extend (and has a lot more magic tricks) which would take away from Luffys "unique" factor imo
I prefer your other option to this one nevertheless it was an interesting read

[loud shuttle]

hmm cool

[pure raven]

Yeah I doubt it too but I liked the idea still I wanna believe it has some chance

[modest skiff]

@pure raven I think you are right that there is a fundamental reason to use CoC with a weapon rather than body. Not sure what it is yet but your idea sounds good to me. I kinda considered it a writing choice to have Luffy use his fist the whole time, but I could see Luffy getting a staff of sorts. But I honestly might prefer he just never gets a weapon. I have been saying something will be revealed by Onigashima floating but i assumed it would be a dungeon for a red glyph. Maybe it’s a weapon though. The fact that they all used staffs early on makes it feel good too

[sand sail]

How about giving Luffy a staff made of the same stuff poneglyphs are, then he uses awakening to make it change shape?

[modest skiff]

This is what I was thinking too, that it would be made of the glyph stuff

[modest skiff]

One of my theories is that there is some kind of box or door that CDs can't open and the only thing that can open it is the ability to stretch it (awaken Luffy fruit). But that doesn't make sense because I feel like they would have tried to kill Luffy for the fruit by now. I originally thought this was why the CDs wanted Law's fruit. I assumed that Law's fruit is the only thing that can penetrate the material that glyphs are made of. Like if there is some kinda chest with a thing that does (insert amazing thing here), maybe the CDs are totally unable to get it. They still live in Marie Jois in order to defend it and keep it under their control, but I really think there is some capability or thing in Marie Jois that the CDs haven't been able to open the entire time. So either the Gomu or Ope fruits could be the way to get inside.

[limpid holly]

my guess is that Yamato's devil fruit is belong to the devil/demon type, which is supposedly extremely rare type and the origin type for all devil fruits, hence its name, Devil's Fruits

[slate zodiac]

Any theories as to why shanks crew refers to him as “boss” instead of just captain? I may be looking too deep into it but it just sounds odd

[modest skiff]

Shanks is acting as the member of someone else’s crew, in his eyes

[light pond]

It is like how BB is called commander by its crew

[dusky acorn]

I know there's a theory about Shanks having some grand connection to the underworld that uses his boss label as evidence, albeit don't know how reasonable that is to use

I'm sure there's plenty of pirate crews that refer to their captains as such, Kid is just the one I came name off the top of my head

[modest skiff]

I think the fact that BB and Shanks are not called captain give further evidence they are secretly fighting for a higher purpose

As in a purpose that are each against each other, not the same purpose

[glad rain]

@pure raven I like it! Also the idea of something from old Wano perhaps underwater laying there to be found is very interesting!

[modest skiff]

@pure raven I think my ideal scenario is Hitetsu (I agree with the oden dad theory) crafting a staff out of glyph material. As a reward for saving Wano, Oden’s dad offers to forge Luffy any weapon made out of glyph. Instead of the obvious choice of a sword, Luffy asks for a stick because that’s what they used to use as kids. Everyone is like “wtffff” and then Luffy says something like “I was terrible with that sword when I used it before. Just like how Franky sucks too. I’m good with a stick, so please make me a stick!”

[exotic echo]

Really appreciate the effort going into that theory, but I am thoroughly convinced that Luffy will never use any major weapon besides just his fists

[modest skiff]

The main thing that makes me agree with this is the fact that i need Luffy to punch a hole in the red line.

[dusky acorn]

maybe in a weapon it can get a bigger penetration power effect . and that’s the second explanation of kaido’s statement after beating luffy : ‘’ So you infused yourself with the color of supreme king … , but your use of it was crude and clumsy !! then he says: gomu gomu … was it ? ‘’

-couldn’t that imply that the crudeness is due to luffy using his fist maybe he should use a weapon instead of relying on his devil fruit while coating his fist ? weapon CoC coating > Body CoC coating

Choosing to use your fists may be less ideal if you're already a swordsman or something, but I don't think that's why Luffy's own haki use was considered rough around the edges.

Yes many Conqueror users have used weapons, but Big Mom was perfectly fine with choosing her own fist for the application of the haki to knock out Page 1, even though she had Napoleon at the time. Since this is somewhat of the backbone of the theory I can't help but address that I don't think it's an issue with what Luffy's applying his haki to, it's how he's applying the haki that Luffy needs to work on.

[novel scroll]

I think Yamato is Inari Okami

[grizzled fog]

Any ideas on why kaido wanted the fruit so badly? Seems like it’ll be fairly important.

[dusky acorn]

Beyond just being a powerful, rare mythical fruit it did seem like something else about it was making him want to have it. Giving it to Yamato wasn't even his primary idea for it.
I like the idea of it being a former Rocks Pirate's fruit. I've even heard speculation as far as it being Rocks' own fruit, but that's very doubtful

It's just.. it's too majestic of a power for me to imagine it on a guy like Rocks lol

Could have been Kaido's late wife's fruit? I know I'm really reaching deep in the bag here. At that point I don't know why he wouldn't want Yamato to inherit it though

[hazy ferry]

the thing is though that he doesnt seem that bothered by it, it was more like "man i looked so hard for that special pudding cup and you just ate it?"

[crisp sorrel]

how much will chopper' bounty goes up after wano?

double it? or he have another wanted warrant for his monster form
since the government dont know his true power

[tired osprey]

my 2 cents...

the kirin fruit is the only zoan more powerful than the dragon, hence kaido views it as a threat to him.

1. In the Post-Qin Chinese hierarchy of mythological animals, the qilin is ranked as the third most powerful creature (after the dragon and phoenix), **but in Japan, the kirin occupies the top spot.
   **

2. In the video game Yakuza 3, it is mentioned that only a kirin is capable of killing a dragon (theyre talking about their yakuza tattoos)

[earnest kettle]

ok I got a theory

What if the prophecy by madam Shirley came true because of the possible destruction of Mary Geoise since its on top of Fishman Island.

And all the fishmen living in Fishman Island would get saved by the Ark built by Joy Boi

[ember trench]

Yeah that’s an oldie

[earnest kettle]

DAMN

[honest hedge]

Pretty sure thats a theory just waiting to be confirmed when it happens

[light pond]

And the noah will be the fishman's ride to the surface yeah thats a very old theory

[scenic thicket]

honestly just put it in ur timelines bc its gonna happen. it got set up at the reverie with tht thing tht happened w/ sabo and now tht jinbei is a crewmate it loops back to him knowing koala

shirahoshi will use the sea kings to pull the ark

[fluid ice]

I know bb goes by commodore but what does shanks go by?

[versed hamlet]

boss

[ember trench]

Blackbeard goes by admiral

[quasi badger]

BB’s crew call him captain tho. Or am I missing a part of this conversation?

They call him 船長(せんちょう) which literally means ships captain

[pastel summit]

you are not missing part of the conversation, you're missing part of the manga.

they called him that pre-ts. post-ts he is "commodore"

[modest skiff]

So just to be clear, it was captain pre-ts and commodore post-ts?

[scenic thicket]

commodores command more than one ship which we saw when he had a fleet...

[modest skiff]

Then I take back everything I said about BB. Still think Shanks considers himself as executing the will of another captain

[dawn oriole]

If there's a human human fruit model golden Buddha

Will there be a human human fruit model Jesus

[weary cliff]

It would be funny, but maybe the editors shut it down

[modest skiff]

And they’d be smart to. No reason to touch that lol

[crisp sorrel]

jesus is not human, he's god bro

and what can Jesus do?

[dawn oriole]

Jesus is human bro

[weary cliff]

Tbf, god as a human. He'd walk on water. DF with no weakness

[crisp sorrel]

[dawn oriole]

Jesus's father is the God

[crisp sorrel]

that should be paramecia not zoan;-;

imagine transform into jesus

[upbeat mist]

he can cure all illnesses, walk on water, warp reality, etc etc

[pseudo citrus]

if hito-hito: jesus could turn water into wine, I bet zoro would want it.

[upbeat mist]

i think it would be the strongest possible fruit, esp when he can RAISE THE DEAD ON COMMAND

[crisp sorrel]

thats illegal ;-;

[weary cliff]

But daibutsu! That makes even less sense since it's a giant buddha statue instead of the dude

[dawn oriole]

He can multiply fish and bread

[dawn oriole]

Jesus on the Cross

[amber oar]

Law gets triggered

[crisp sorrel]

thats illegal

[amber oar]

I will make it legal

[weary cliff]

OP is big enough as a series to survive that scandal. We can lose the catholic countries and still be #1 shonen

[crisp sorrel]

ice fruit should be paramecia not logia

water fruit should be

[weary cliff]

It does break the formula a little. Could have been paramecia like Oven, but it works as is

[crisp sorrel]

what if: aokiji has already awaken his water fruit then somehow make change to his temperature to make that water froze and people thought he has ice fruit in the first place?
and ice shouldnt be logia thats illegal

[amber oar]

Catholic countries wouldn't bat an eye

Evangelicals, on the other hand...

[crisp sorrel]

why there are so much dvil fruit that can affect to people age: soul fruit of big mom, jewelry bonney' fruit, and ain' fruit (in movie Z)

maybe sugar fruit can count in too but i dont know that people were transform to toys stay at the same age that before they were

[dusky acorn]

Yeah, I guess you can technically throw Law and Sugar's in there as well. And who knows, they're just devil fruits. I don't think there's an underlying reason for this specific power having multiple different adaptations of it packaged into these fruits. It isn't the only ability seen overlapping and spanning different fruits as well

Like, changing a person's weight can be seen through a couple, shape-shifting into others, and obv a bunch of zoans do similar things like growing wings

Age manip is definitely a coveted power though

[crisp sorrel]

did chopper awakened his devil fruit?

[weary cliff]

Probably not but maybe he's forcing it with drugs?

[dim radish]

dont do drugs kids

[crisp sorrel]

thats illegal
and hes underage

[dim radish]

you dont want the demon inside of you to get out

[weary cliff]

Chopper got it under contol. Drugs are great if you're responsible

[dim radish]

unlike Micheal jackson

[crisp sorrel]

did smoker named smoker because he smoke
or he smoke after he named smoker?

[dim radish]

leave it to your imagination

[dim radish]

could you imagine after he ate the devil fruit. "god i feel like smoking for some reason."

[lost spoke]

The BB crew will just say its fate

[crisp sorrel]

there should be more sea animal zoan 🙂
we got turtle zoan

[amber oar]

actually he was born as "sucker" and used three pacifiers

[dim radish]

where me shark boy at

[lost spoke]

I wanna see a giant with a DF

[amber oar]

San Juan Wolf

[dim radish]

there is one

[crisp sorrel]

we got a shark fruit?

[amber oar]

and Morley

[lost spoke]

Oh yea lol my bad

[dim radish]

lava girl and shark boy in one piece?

[lost spoke]

Basically the end of the war if Akinu had a vag

[crisp sorrel]

i wanna see clown fish xd

[dim radish]

yo. change akainus gender with hormone power and we got lava girl

[lost spoke]

Let's go! And Robin can make of those thumb things from Spy kids... just cause

[sand sail]

Guys, take this talk to another channel please, this isn't really for general discussion

[dim radish]

we can talk about whatever we want sir okama

[lost spoke]

What channel should I put my thumb people discussion in?

[crisp sorrel]

im confused

[dim radish]

as am i

[lost spoke]

Me too

[crisp sorrel]

i wanna see dolphin zoan

[lost spoke]

Could the One Piece world have a Zunesha zoan?

[crisp sorrel]

there should be a kangoroo zoan

[dim radish]

an aussie character mate

[lost spoke]

Wasn't there a SMILE of one?

[dim radish]

ye

[crisp sorrel]

really?

[sand sail]

I asked you guys to move channels, please do so

You can go to #off-topic or #anime for discussion up to the current episode, or one of the manga channels otherwise

If you have any hard theories you'd like to discuss, feel free to do so here, but no general chat pls

[lost spoke]

Does anyone have a guess as to what Young Shanks asked Rodger?

[frank grail]

@lost spoke I don't, I mean he was crying I have no idea

[lost spoke]

It's really interesting. It seems to imply he had expectations prior to Laughtale and was let down. Maybe it was a cure for Rodger, maybe something else but I keep it in mind because, though it was a quick moment I really want that answer. Oda will cut a sentence off sometimes and those are the ones I really want answers too. Same for Luffy/Rodger's hidden ambition.

[frank grail]

maybe somthing happened to his familly during the void century

[modest skiff]

I like the idea of him being disappointed Roger was still dying. If they really had no idea what they were walking into, I could see Shanks hoping for immortality or a miracle medicine. I can see why Shanks would be surprised something as important as the one piece wasn't enough to cure Roger.

I wonder who had the Ope fruit while Roger was sick

[pure raven]

Firstly, thanks for mentioning me. Because I really was interested in this theory. And I like it.

I appreciate how you are connecting the story to a mythology. And, your knowledge about Journey to the West is pretty good.

Overall, very nice theories. And I'd love to see how it all goes down in the actual story.

[restive ice]

Hey guys In the where’s waldo spread you can see sanjuan wolf what if it’s a hint that Blackbeard’s arriving here soon

[modest skiff]

Lots of other characters there. Like the guy who got stuck in a treasure chest. Forgot his name, basically oscar the grouch. He's on the spread. So if he is also in wano, that would be something. So we all assume its just art

always so impressed by people's ability to remember characters names like that.

[rose spoke]

Just seen the last chapter, next one or the later; sure Zoro gets a new attack due to his last All in power

I am pretty sure we will see the mugiwaras join sooner than later

[grizzled fog]

what? i don't understand

[pure raven]

He won't necessarily get a powerup

He'll most likely get a cool moment like "Nothing Happened" scene from pre timeskip

[rose spoke]

Not talking a power up, more like a precision type thing, Like a full shishi sonson with enma

[dusky crest]

Hey guys so this is not my theory but I recently heard this and wanted to know ur opinion - zoro was the first person to display conqueror's haki. This is because when he used the asura 9 swords style on kaido, kaido said that he used offensive conquerors, And if you remember back in ennies, kaku saw zoro's demon manifested because of that. My take on the whole thing is that I think that oden's sword which automatically brings out ryou is what forced out zoro's conqueror's haki. But.. is it maybe possible that conqueror's haki is actually a manifestation or a part of a god (or demon)'s power passed onto the person?? And that could be the asura thing? So basically being a "king" could also mean being "chosen" by a god. Tbh, it seems plausible but I kinda hope not cuz its kind of a generic plotline in a lot of mainstream manga and manwha, but let me know ur thoughts.

[limber dune]

I WAS WONDERING ABOUT THIS

[light pond]

Asura is not CoC it just happens that the attack zoro uses in the roof is asura technique that manifest a CoC.

[robust sky]

um just a guess, maybe similar to the one he used in skypiea? although enel was the who put on luffy, it was still somehow useful and luffy came with an idea of gear 3rd right?

[stuck ore]

What if one piece is a huge destructive ship that existed way back and is called one piece because even after all the years it is not broken and still in one piece?

[glad rain]

Unless he finds a way to break Kaido's kanabo, he might need a denser extension of his ryou rather than his body.

[plucky tulip]

So the asura technique was coated with conquerors haki?

[frank heron]

yes ig

[robust sky]

hell yeah

[rigid wadi]

Pluton: Am I a joke to you?

[crude ridge]

[pseudo citrus]

just wanted to mention something I saw that was funny from a Japanese commentator... Kaido asks them to bring his "idiot son", which is written バカ息子... but the kanji for idiot/バカ is 馬鹿, which translates directly to horse-deer

[pure raven]

“Ba” “ka”

Hilarious

[steep vigil]

The fact law probably won't be alive after he ends his alliance with the strawhats always makes me sad

[pure raven]

You mean the golden ball sticked in his hand?

[robust sky]

yeah hahahahah

[pure raven]

Seriously at this moment I'm not sure of anything, oda can do anything to surprise us, the thing is logicaly speaking luffy have 3 choice either improve his devil fruit with coating CoC or get something (maybe an object or a weapon) that would help him against kaido (not a lot of people believe in this idea I myself doubt it but I find it logical and I like it) , or we saw this multiple time in the story always coming back with a trick like you said (against Enel he used the golden ball / against crocodile he used water and blood / against moria using the shadows/....) so people get used to this kind of fight and tricks from luffy but now I'm guessing this wouldn't be the Case against kaido. If oda does it I would be disappointed sincerely @robust sky

[robust sky]

yeah, well its oda where talking about so it might as well be a complete shock if luffy started using a sword with basic moves, like swinging it with basic posture or some sh*t, maybe the big sword that was plug into onigishima might be a help since kaido is planning on putting the whole island on the flower capital right? I'm confused as you are hahaha
lets just wait and see how it unfolds and which of our theories will be close to the truth hahaha @pure raven

[light pond]

How is it a fact?

[fathom matrix]

One way I can see Luffy being involved with the Holy Land, is if he's captured and taken there, because of the Joyboy idea and the fact he has the gum gum fruit.

Maybe Imu or the Gorusei say something like "Kill you? Oh nono. We let the gum gum fruit slip once, we're not letting it escape again"

[robust sky]

hard to picture but it could happen

[fathom matrix]

Yeah, it's a very rough idea, but in short, if they know he has the gum gum fruit and there's a chance to capture hum, they'd probably bring him to the holy land instead

[pure raven]

What do you mean by :"the fact he has the gum gum fruit"

[robust sky]

they probably know, they just need something or someone for that to happen, since the existence of IM is kinda mysterious, and shanks made a move

[fathom matrix]

The fact a CP9 member was captured and tortured for losing a rubbery paramecia, and the fact a rubbery paramecia was being exported with such high protection in the first place, kinda screams how important is it.

and if the world government had a chance capture Luffy, reported it and they found out, they'd take it with the higher ups

[fathom matrix]

There was a point tekking made in one of his videos, where the government CAN'T make a big thing out of it, because if they do, that would raise suspicion.

People going "why did you give a weak rubbery kid a 5 billion beri bounty?"

and they want to make sure they keep EVERYTHING under wraps

[robust sky]

i love tekking's videos hahahah

yeah that could stir the current situations right now and could lead a disaster

[fathom matrix]

cause it would confuse people and have peeps looking it, marine officers and people would keep asking questions, and it may be small but could lead to greater questions

[pure raven]

If it was the case why didn't they do that from the start of the story? So if the fruit was really that important as high as you let it seam! Why till now to move?

Also, if it was that important for them, you mean by that for some plan or some secrecy agenda? Why not just being a strong fruit, that may have been simply gived and used by an admiral for example? Or a Cp agent...
I saw this multiple time people saying like the fruit is a key for something but I think it's overexagerated

[ancient vault]

Luffy wouldve been dead then before he even reached the new world. They made a big deal out of Laws fruit already. They were ready to pay 5 Billion berry for that fruit so no I dont think the gomu gomu no mi is of any major importance to the overarching lore

[weary cliff]

The safe bet is that the protagonist's power is special, that much is obvious. And as valuable as ope ope was, gomu gomu got even more special treatment

[ancient vault]

then why didnt they target luffy nor make any statements about his powers

[pure raven]

Yep

[ancient vault]

itll just be a random asspull if luffys power turns out to be super duper broken

[pure raven]

Don't tell us because shanks protect him 😅

[weary cliff]

Why didn't they target Robin with anyone stronger than Lucci?

[pure raven]

No if it was the case why not target luffy and Robin not only robbin....

[ancient vault]

they did. They send Aokiji

When they found out

[fathom matrix]

Well, it's not that it's strong but the fact they had the second strongest row of cipher pole agents protect it and one of them got captured and tortured to hell and back, shows it's pretty important.

And I doubt the world government is gonna tell every marine or every higher up the deal with the gum gum fruit, because too many people would start questioning it, and cipher pole agents just do as their told, no questions asked. Of course they are humans and they can feel emotions, and back the in the independent report they rebelled for a bit.

The op op fruit was powerful as hell for the immortal surgery of course, but I doubt it had any direct ties to joyboy.

Plus, fruits keep reincarnating, so it must be a pain trying to get every fruit, cause if the marines could why don't they have every single logia?

[weary cliff]

The point is even when they have these dangerous individuals running around, they don't immediately have admirals deployed. It's no plot hole

[ancient vault]

It could be as simple as a CD wanting that fruit, whos who losing it and the CD wanting him to be his torture toy instead

Also any failure as a CP agent means getting jailed instantly anyways

[pure raven]

Why say " I doubt op op had any direct ties with Joy boy" would that mean you think gomu gomu has some ties with joy boy

[light pond]

Lucci and the others only escaped their punishment we saw it in the cover story when they defeat very good

[fathom matrix]

yeah, a lot of people are speculating the gum gum fruit was probably joyboy's, and the fact Luffy has been constantly referred to as him, makes people think it could have been his fruit.

[weary cliff]

I think that's a poor assessment of Oda's writing ability. Who's Who's entire character was just to lore dump about the fruit and Nika. It just makes sense for the fruit plot thread to go somewhere

[light pond]

When was luffy referred to as joyboy?

[fathom matrix]

Kaido did say to luffy "You couldn't be Joyboy either"
but only because he lost then but it can be changed BUT the fact he saw him as Joyboy, and Odin wanted to open up wano for Joyboy's arrival in 20 years (big surprise, it's been 20 years), kinda links together

[pure raven]

If he was referred as such, it was because of his character his D and the joy he brings to the island he go to not because of his power

[weary cliff]

The most evidence we have for Luffy as Joyboy is from the log, not his fruit. But honestly it's not off the table that it was Joyboy's

That would be something the Gorosei and Shanks knew, not any common knowledge

[fathom matrix]

Plus, that's really the only reason why I think it's so important or why the government wanted that thing protected and why Who's Who got tortured.

Why else would they be so protective about the fruit?

[weary cliff]

Could just have a real sick awakening

Which is another reason it may not he pursued as hard. It's not likely any user will awaken it

[light pond]

Cause it is own by a CD also every df is kinda rare and important as it is

[weary cliff]

That's selling it way too short. We already know it had more protection than even a 5 bil fruit

[light pond]

How does it have more protection? The 5 bil fruit have a vice admiral and 2 navy ship getting just one fruit gomu gomu only have a cp9 member

[pure raven]

Like strong fruit have been given to admirals, and marines, and CP people, gomu gomu is probably a strong special one too, I just speculate too but maybe the fruit was meant for one of these important agent of the WG not more not less, but there is still the possibility of something special about the fruit itself but who knows for sure I just think it's exaggerated to think that way cause look what oda said : [According to Eiichiro Oda, Luffy was conceptualized with stretching powers specifically to allow for a "silly" fighting style that could make battles amusing as well as dramatic.]

[fathom matrix]

why wouldn't they have kept it along with the giant frozen hat from the start, instead of transporting it recently?

I doubt one of the guards or staff ate it, died, and they went "AH SHIT, well, guess we got to go find it again" unless it's a fruit they've been on the look out for, finally found but got cucked by the red haired pirates, and punished Who's who for messing it up.

I think it's tied to joyboy or more with the void century, because of the lengths and severe punishment W.W got, and if you make a big deal of it around the world, people will start asking question and start looking into things, and that's the last thing the government wants, cause why would they make a massive announcement or raise Luffy's bounty to billians so quickly IF he had the fruit? Again, questions.

PLUS, the gorosei can't keep track of every pirate and their powers.

Eventually when Luffy got big, they probably looked a lot more into him and his abilities, and maybe speculated he ate that fruit

[light pond]

Have u even read WW story it was being transported and he was assigned as a guard then shanks attacked and stole the fruit if it was super important they should have made vice admirals guard it and made 2 navy ships like how they plan to guard the ope ope no mi during trade off

If gomu gomu no mi is super important to WG they should have made a move to kill luffy years ago since they knew he ate the fruit and send assassin to take the fruit

They should also have asked the CP9 to capture not only robin but also luffy back in ennies lobby since he have the gomu gomu but they didnt

Gorosei also have meetings about luffy a lot of times before but they didnt even discussed his fruit and i doubt they didnt know about it

If gomu gomu was super important to the WG why didnt they chased luffy to get the fruit?

[rare rose]

All this time luffy was using his fruit wrong maybe the world government thought it was a different fruit all this time

[light pond]

Whos who knows the name of the fruit the WG seen him use it in marineford he even shouts the name in every attack how could they not know

Even WW recognize the fruit and gets mad at luffy how could the WG doesnt know

[pure raven]

You like the sengoku emoji lol

[rare rose]

Luffy calls it gomu gomu, there's a fruit thats called gomu gomu but the trick question did shanks the in the first place knew about the fruit and told luffy? And a this time this fruit can be used like the gomu gomu fruit

[light pond]

No but this comments hurts my head like that sengoku facepalm 😂😂😂

[light pond]

Read ch 1

[rare rose]

Lmao i reread one piece 5 times a year

[fathom matrix]

Why does talking about or reasoning why the gum gum fruit's important hurt your head so much?

[light pond]

Then u clearly needs to reread it 1000x more

[rare rose]

If your so butthurt about fruit theories then why did oda bring it up in the first place?

[light pond]

No but that comment hurts my head cause its not like there is no common sense used 😂😂😂

[rare rose]

Getting mad about theories shessh dude.

[pure raven]

I think oda needed a scenario of how shanks got the fruit so here we got it, but doesn't mean it has to be super special

[light pond]

Nah i am not getting mad about the theory i am getting mad at ur comment cause it makes no sense at all 😂😂😂

[fathom matrix]

Yeah, I honestly don't want the fruit itself to be majorly powerful, I like the idea that it's actually not that storng, but Luffy makes something out of it

[rare rose]

Sanji being called a prince for fun was simple. I remember seeing people like u rage at that theory saying it was his nickname

[pure raven]

Slowly men this can easily become a fight instead of a discussion

[rare rose]

Don't discourage other peoples theories just to suit your narcisstic self

[weary cliff]

We didn't need that, though. If it never came up, we already had a good enough explanation. Now that Oda is exploring that more, it leads one to think it's because the fruit has something special

[pure raven]

Guys we all good we all good

[rare rose]

Have fun with it.

[fathom matrix]

Yeah, it's fine to debate and disagree, but we're all just speculating, so let's chill be respectful and have fun with it

[light pond]

Again i am not raging about the theory i am facepalming about ur comment specifically cause it is like a no brainer 😂😂😂

[rare rose]

Whatever continue to write a whole short story to try to prove your point.

[light pond]

You try to prove ur point 😂😂😂 like how in the world did WG did not know that the gomu gomu no mi is a diff fruit from luffy's power when he specifically shown using that power and him shouting in every attack the fruit name? 😂😂😂😂

[fathom matrix]

Okay, badwolf, why do you think the gum gum fruit was being transported and why it was under CP9's protection, and why W.W's got tortured for losing it.

[pure raven]

Possible it may be the case

[fathom matrix]

cause ya keep shutting down points, so what's your point on it?

[weary cliff]

Fruits just turn up. We can infer the yami yami is special too, and it's not important for Oda to show how Thatch found it. But with a fruit we think is totally ordinary, this is a way to show that it's special.

You may think it was an excuse to get WW in jail to hear about Nika, but you wouldn't need to involve the gomu gomu to get there, either. Oda isn't a careless writer, there is plot here yet to be explored

[light pond]

I think it is being transported to deliver to the CD and WW was tortured cause he failed his job

Also i am not attacking you and shutting down ur idea just showing counter arguements to ur theory

The other one though i think he is a troll with that comment it hurts my head like how in the hell did the WG didnt know luffy has the gomu gomu no mi and how is he using the fruit wrong 😂😂😂😂

[pure raven]

You mark a point! There

[rare rose]

I'm a troll for saying that there's something special about luffys fruit because oda suddenly bring it up in the story?

[light pond]

No u didnt say that there is something special about luffys fruit u said WG doesnt know luffy's fruit is the gomu gomu no mi cause he is using it wrong lol

[weary cliff]

Since Luffy is about all haki'd up and he still has room to grow, I'm sure this whole thing will segue into awakening

[rare rose]

Lmao. Gtfo. I'm so done. You must know oda I guess. You must know the whole plot to one piece. Bravo 👏

[hushed bay]

Sorry to interupt the conversation, but I have this crazy theory that op 23 is foreshadowing the final battle, and i would like to bounce it off some people

[light pond]

I think luffy wont awaken until we know further what awakening really is

[crude ridge]

have u ever heard of a opening that spoils the manga readers?

[light pond]

Like the denjiro is a scabbard and kanjuro is the traitor?

Both are hinted in the opening before the manga

[crude ridge]

Like that

[weary cliff]

Agreed. So if Shanks has more info about the fruit, that could lead into learning about awakening. Hell, maybe VP finally shows up and drops some info

[pure raven]

I think awakening will not be in wano he already awakened 2 haki in one arc and that is already big for one arc , I believe more or less in My theory about his gear 2 if you didn't read it yet I invite you to do so.

[light pond]

I wanna see vegapunk and explain everything about df and linage factor

[weary cliff]

Not in Wano, in time for the final arc

[pure raven]

Maybe in Vega punk arc ( awakening DF)

[crude ridge]

well oda is unpredictable

[light pond]

Same def not in wano

[hushed bay]

gotcha i didnt think about that i was just looking at the scene with luffy in the water and then him running at the camera in the firey area

[light pond]

Whats ur theory then?

[pure raven]

Me?

[light pond]

No tankdemp

[hushed bay]

So the water scene is what foreshadowed luffy falling off into the water and that the wave clearing the water is showing that he truly masters what i call Adv Conquerors haki. and then the final battle will be in the ruins of crashed onigashima, but it doesnt crash on the flower capital, but one the prison camps Kaido made

if you want to look at that part in the opening its just after the scene with Yamato

[pure raven]

Can you send the page of the water scene?

[hushed bay]

i can send a clip of the part of the opening im talking about

[light pond]

Then?

[pure raven]

But looking at the wind enveloping him after, it can be forshadowing something more than just mastering Coating of CoC

[hushed bay]

yeah that is what i am trying to figure out because it isnt just a power up because it disapates all the water and rocks shoot up

[fathom matrix]

Yeah, I know you're not attacking, it's fine, but the constant uses of annoyed and laugh&cry emojies just seem a little uneeded

[pure raven]

I think it's related to my theorie lol 🤔😅😅😅😅 I wrote here yesterday

[hushed bay]

Really? I'll scroll up and give it a read rq

[light pond]

I like using emotes it is just my style 😂😂😂😂 but in all seriousness thos are my counter arguements to the theory

[pure raven]

Wait I will ping it here

[fathom matrix]

Yeah, I understand it's a style and you do bring up some decent point, but you can understand that using emojis in that way can give off an impression

[light pond]

Well just like emojis though 😂😂😂😂

[pure raven]

@hushed bay

Look at the opening picture when you look at it you can relate the pose of gear 2 with it +the wind blow I may be delusional but , it's maybe related to my theory about luffy improving his gear 2 @ancient vault @pure raven @glad rain

[robust sky]

im having a headache hahahaha

https://tenor.com/view/michael-scott-the-office-mood-me-face-gif-7842240

[fathom matrix]

TBH, I think Luffy's base form has improved so much, he probably doesn't need gear second that much.

In fact, did he use gear second when he used red roc and red hawk?

[hushed bay]

in 982 yeah because he turns pink and steams

[light pond]

Red roc is gear 3rd red hawk is gear 2nd

[robust sky]

I haven't watched the animated part of one piece in WANO, so imma just read all your conents and will have comments hahahaha

[light pond]

You should at least watch ep 982 that was a masterpiece

[hushed bay]

^

[robust sky]

probably no, it happened so fast

[robust sky]

noted ❤️

[fathom matrix]

He probably did use them, but they just didn't show him using G2

[robust sky]

yeah, but smoke/shine that resembles G2 was present or nah during that attack?

[light pond]

In FMI he uses gear 2 when he uses red hawk

[fathom matrix]

Ok, so I took a look at the manga again, AND he did say third gear before using red roc, but I don't seen shines or smoke coming from his body, but I'ma try and see if he used gear second before hand

[light pond]

Gear second armament gomu gomu no red hawk thats the full name

[fathom matrix]

I mean in wano, I was gonna assume his ryou/haki gotten so much better, he doesn't need gear second as much to use his red moves

BUT, i'ma check it all again to be sure and it's been a while

[robust sky]

https://tenor.com/view/anna-excited-frozen-so-happy-to-see-you-happy-gif-16282301

[light pond]

I dont think he uses red hawk against kaido he uses red roc

[fathom matrix]

he used red hawk and missed in one of the later chapters

just seeing if he used G.2 before hand or there are signs of it

or the anime is just adding those in because Oda either forgot to draw them or he's trying to imply luffy doesn't need them as much.

[hushed bay]

In the anime with hoardy he does do g2 with read hawk before the noah stuff happened

https://youtu.be/4GIxcDU799A?t=57

[fathom matrix]

I found this, just need to find more pages

trying to remember and see if he used gear second before this

[hushed bay]

forgot the time stamp

[hushed bay]

is that right before the KO on roof?

[fathom matrix]

this fight is before that yeah

[robust sky]

chapter?

[fathom matrix]

that's what I'm trying to remember

[pure raven]

@fathom matrix

[fathom matrix]

I think it's just that Kaido's had a LOT of combat experience and Luffy's just new to imbedding conquerors into his attacks, and Yamato's fighting him

So it's just really a case of Luffy recovering and getting better at using conquerors in his attacks, as he's very new to it, and he just needs proper concentration

But Kaido needs to eb worn down a bit more.

Devil fruit powers? Those will probably be refined a lot more in the later arcs

[light pond]

Do you think yamato have coc?

[fathom matrix]

......not sure. I mean, Yamato wants to be like Odin, but not really the ruler of wano or wanting to take over places, more like he wants to be strong willed and free

Coc is more for people who have aspirations and goals to be at the top or achieve to be the best at something

[robust sky]

i think yamato mentioned that she has one

[pure raven]

Your line of tought if you may let me say is wrong, from the start of the manga every body has more fighting experience and even if luffy is new to coating he already learned to do so In my opinion he used it but wasn't able to make kaido back off luffy need to improve not just in coating but In the synchronization of coating + his devil fruit

[light pond]

No

[hushed bay]

Red Roc at the opening of the rooftop is in CH 1000 and that red hawk panel was 1009

[robust sky]

really? or was it another person? i just remembered that i read those lines in the new chapter release

[fathom matrix]

I think his devil fruit is fine and he has been polishing it for a while, and his coating and D.F has basically been gear 4th which he's trained with for about nearly 2 years?

He's still got more to work with sure, but he's had it for most of his life, and it seems his main priority is just getting haki down for now.

[light pond]

No, it is just some fans that think he has coc since when he clashes with kaido black lightning is shown

[hushed bay]

I do not see G2 being said before hand, but that was right after zoro blocked linlin and kaidos attack

[robust sky]

yeah, i think i got mixed it up with different manga I read
hahahahahah my bad

[fathom matrix]

I get what you mean, like he should better sync his D.F and haki, but I think this arc is mainly gonna focus on the haki aspect, and we'll get more with him syncing it later

and it's mainly just getting at how the coc attacks should work

[pure raven]

No his gear 4 has problems as much was his gear 3, luffy can't manage between gear 4 strain in his muscle and the fact gear 4 take too much of his haki, there is a link between his gear 4 and his haki, because he can't use it for 10 minute after that, ( à draw back) I may think luffy devil fruit has a link with haki in his body, I explained this in my theory if you did read it.

[hushed bay]

tbf i think luffy was on the verge of haki exhaustion when he started doing coc

[pure raven]

Yes

[hushed bay]

he hit kaido with like 2 kong guns and missed a red hawk

[pure raven]

It's because he was in his second recharging after he wake from his gear 4 draw back so basically he used coating of conqueror with low reserve

[visual merlin]

why's that?

[hushed bay]

like griseo said he had already used G4 twice at that point and blocked alot of attacks with haki, so i felt like he didnt get the full recharge like in Dresrosa and WCI

[visual merlin]

He only used g4 once, and it doesn't seem like the haki slowly recharges, he just gets it all back after the 10 minutes and we see he had haki already

[pure raven]

[The first few uses of Gear Fourth, Luffy's body is worn out, strained, and his stamina is affected; after regaining his Haki and reusing it, he had barely enough strength to fight and its brief use for a second time left him unconscious that lasted for three days.] from wiki

[hushed bay]

and it goes with his use of coc being reckless. I cant remember how kaido worded it and maybe that fully drained him

[visual merlin]

if he was already close to done he probably wouldn't have fought another 30+ minutes

There's no real indication that he was low on haki there. Again his haki more so recharges in a way that he just gets it all back after a certain amount of time, so he should've had it all by then

[fathom matrix]

Well yeah, a gear 4th, kong gatling and a red hawk would make you low on haki, and those coc attack would mostly be running on fumes

or just not have that much left

[visual merlin]

He was low on haki right after g4, not by the time he got Coating

red hawk also doesn't make him low on haki at all, it doesn't use any more haki than a hakied up punch

[pure raven]

Yes I think you are right

[visual merlin]

now maybe after he fought with coating he was low on haki, that would make more sense to me

[fathom matrix]

Plus, Luffy wasn't the only one fighting kaido, so it would give him a little more time to recharge on it

[hushed bay]

true but for the most part law kid and killer were focused on big mom

[fathom matrix]

I mean, after 10 minutes, Luffy was able to gear 4th and use king kong gun against Doffy

[pure raven]

Did you read my theory about improving gear 2?

[hushed bay]

yeah i did i can totally see it tbf

also coc seems to be the best fit for g2. its fast and hits hard. making the perfect combo for a coating type ability

[pure raven]

Before you sending the opening of wano 2, I was myself doubting my theory but right now after I saw it I think there is very high chance its gonna be a gear 2 improvement

[hushed bay]

yeah also with the looming possibility of war i feel like this is time for luffy to work on his basic forms and attacks so that he can be efficient as possible

esp if Sabo has been captured by marines, but that is a different theory

[robust sky]

um, question, is WW really in BB crew or something? it was a theory tho

I'm not still convinced by it hahaha

[weary cliff]

No, probably not

The main point people make for that is WW being busted out of Impel Down by BB, which doesn't make sense timeline wise. WW definitely didn't break out of Impel Down

[robust sky]

yeah, but i got a feeling that WW would eventually join luffy grand fleet or something like belamy, since he hold deeply the thought of nika the sun god and the salvation he mentioned

[weary cliff]

Perhaps. Could join up with Kid too, get that shared hatred for Shanks

[robust sky]

yeah hahahahah
that could be the most suitable route hahaha

[ancient vault]

I wouldnt use anime openings for evidence tho. They make up a lot of stuff

[pure raven]

I don't consider it as evidence but a litle hint that made my day lol

[pure raven]

Cause if you look at the opening luffy for a moment was under water after that he is shown in land standing going to start a fight which what happened, after luffy's defeat he went under water and saved by heart crew, then his come back is probably what that stands is in the opening

[ancient vault]

Could be a coincidence. Could not be. I still personally wouldnt use anime as a reference

[pure raven]

Yep

[velvet edge]

@daring prism please use this channel only for serious theories, not jokes

[daring prism]

ok

[split ledge]

Welll I certainly think differently on the second picture …
I guess it something dependent on CoC and its advancement likewise a CoC user can tame his sorroundings like the sea/air itself … there are few examples of it
1.roger vs shiki a sudden storm come of nowhere….
2. Luffy execution another storm some here says its dragons devil fruit but no confirmation set
3. At marineford shanks arrival marines are shocked of it bcoz a few days past he is sparring with kaido
4. When mihawk went to meet shanks at luffys 1st bounty we can see the weather itself change…
5. Whenever the two conquerors collide the heavens itself diverged
Do in second picture it’s basically mastering the Advanced CoC
It can affect to nature or the sorroundings too…

[sand sail]

Most of those aren't really good indicators of it, though. The only time conqueror's has ever directly had anything to do with the weather is just when it's clashing against another user. As for the Gear 2nd, Luffy's probably not improving it, there's not really anything to improve. He already did when he made Gear 4th

[hushed bay]

about no.3 ive heard a theory somewhere that shanks knows where the anchors (or whatever they were called. cant remember) are to get to skipea and used that as a faster means of travel to get to marineford that fast. The anchors might have been on elbaf since we have seen that panel of the giant tree on there.

[rose spoke]

Will Luffy use Ryou in Gear 3 or 4? Cause it is embuided(?) With haki already

I think Kaido will lose just like in the treasure film, with a combo attack and a Luffy or Someone suplex

[sand sail]

He already has, it's how he opens the fight

[honest hedge]

He's been using it the entire fight

[pure raven]

@sand sail @split ledge the thing is both of you forgot some things important is that when luffy created his gears it wasn't for simply getting stronger if you look at it more than just getting stronger its more luffy discovering the use of his fruit, gears are all different in their use and each gear have its special use in a strategic way, so basically luffy in the story should be able to use them all in different situations, the thing is being able to use gear 4 didn't block luffy from using gear 3, but for gear 2 it's considered now as not very helpful and can't be used by luffy with gear 4, while also gear 2 is the real gear for gomu gomu cause it's based only on his elasticity propriety not with air like gear 3 and 4, + gear 4 has draw back with haki, in my line of thoughts luffy will go back using gear 2 to support his haki with his elasticity (I can't explain this right now you should go read my theory where I do if you want) especially gear 2 was used in inies loby the arc of his first zoan enemy.
Luffy's gear are not just new gear replacing old gears for becoming strong but all gear should support each other.

All of this is just my line of tought which is just supposition

[hushed bay]

when i think of luffy's gears i literally think of transmission of a vehicle. They all work together, but you use a different one based on the situation you have at hand.

[robust sky]

BRAVO !!! ❤️ whooooo love your thoughts hahahah hope this is close to the original plan of Oda

[robust sky]

its more like how effective and convenient the gear given to the situation, as we all know luffy use different attacks and choose the best options for the final fight or something
feel free to correct me hehehe

[hushed bay]

thats essentially it like you can drive down the road in 1st gear but you cant do over 20 mph. You would rather be in like 5th or 6th where you can go 55-65 and get somewhere faster, but if you are on a steep road you dont want to be in 5th trying to climb so you slow things down and go back to first

and thats how i feel like luffy's gears work. he could destroy a boat in base but for ease and convenience he would rather do gear 3 to take it down really fast. He goes gear 4 when he needs haki protection and needs to hit hard and to fight devil fruit users, and gear 2 when he needs to move really fast. They are all separate but build off one another

[robust sky]

yeah, that really makes since, given to the personality luffy has, it will be flashy or maybe a smaller version of boundman with haki covered and mainly used fast and lethal attacks that would last a couple of minutes

[sand sail]

We're not missing details, but it looks like you may be here. Gear 4th incorporates Gear 2nd already, Luffy never stopped using it. Likewise, he's used Gear 2nd repeatedly throughout the time skip, including up to and through Wano. It's not a form he has to "go back to", he never left it in the first place. Same with Gear 3rd. I believe he's used both extensively in every single arc in the time skip.

[hushed bay]

That’s essentially what snake man is.

[robust sky]

damn hahahah
i was picturing out a different aspect hahahah
my bad, i was just hype with the G5 and 6 thoughts hehehehe

[smoky basin]

gears 2 and 3 are just warmup gears now

the issue w/ gear 4 is that even if oda is infinitely creative, it only has so many options

[pure raven]

No, gear 4th was never said incorporating gear 2,in any place even when you do research in every wiki and in the manga, it's not the case, Secondly, gear 2 is basically pushing up and down blood on high speed in gear 4 what he do is he take air in his muscle to make them bigger and stronger, this form doesn't affect blood cerculation.
And I didn't say that luffy stopped using gear 2.
so what I said based on the fact that gear 2 isn't used in the same time with gear 4, it doesnt impact much the fight against strong opponents since 2 year time skip, when luffy wins its based on gear 4 forms + using strong attack with gear 3.
So I think gear 2 will have an improvement to be used in the same lvl with gear 3 and gear 4 to complete them also be used in the same time with gear 4 maybe.
As I said it's just my theory but I think gear 2 will have some effect on haki so in the same time solving the problem of gear 4, 10 min draw back
Gears are gear not numbers each gear has its use and I say that gear 2 real use is as much as its connected to bloods flow it's may also be connected to haki flow

[teal nymph]

also luffy still has that 10-15 min limit right ?

[smoky basin]

and even with different variations unless luffy becomes a haki master, he is gonna need an awakening or new gear

[hushed bay]

Yes

[sand sail]

It's never been that low, his minimum was over 20 minutes where he could use the form

It seemed to increase later

[sand sail]

Gear 2nd is, in fact, used in Gear 4th.

[hushed bay]

Oh I thought it was 10 mins in dresrosa

[pure raven]

Gear 3 is not warm up even the strongest attack luffy has is based mainly on gear 3 + gear 4 if I'm not mistaken

[sand sail]

That's why there's cloak of steam wrapping around Luffy and his skin turns shaded

[smoky basin]

gear 4 is a combination of 2, 3, and haki

[smoky basin]

no but like base gear 3. like only gear 3

[sand sail]

It's never stopped being used, and Luffy's never not increased his skill and power in all of his gears. Gear 2nd never fell off, he's been using it even into this fight here

[smoky basin]

gear 2 plus haki is read hawk

gear 3 plus haki is elephant gun (i think). and gear 4 is a mix of everything

[pure raven]

That's ur supposition not what's it has been said, I can say also maybe the steam is because of the calories luffy eat when using too much his muscle for your information when luffy finish using gear 4 his muscle shrink which means he burned calories which means he burned water as well in his muscle which give steam

[sand sail]

And whether it affects a fight or not in your opinion is irrelevant, it's inarguable that it does, and Luffy still consistently uses it for that purpose lol. If he wants to revamp it that's fine, but there's no need for that by any means, the form has far from fallen off in any way

His muscles shrink because he's not a man with an actual 9 foot wingspan. It has nothing to do with calories lol

[smoky basin]

the steam is literally his blood evaporating from being circulated so fast

[pure raven]

No

[sand sail]

And it's not supposition, Luffy doesn't steam up from burning calories, he just shrinks.

The steam is exclusively from Gear 2nd, and we know this because that's how it's always been

[smoky basin]

^^

[pure raven]

Guys read this it's calories lol not blood effect

Come one guys it's not related to gear 2

[sand sail]

No, it's not, lmao

I'm not sure how you made that pretty incorrect assumption from that entry

[smoky basin]

bro if that was true then he would have to eat a shit ton of food to un shrink

[sand sail]

It does consume calories, for sure, no one's arguing that. But it's never had anything to do with steam, and a wiki entry that doesn't even state that as a fact is certainly not changing that lol

For example, Luffy visibly burning calories in front of us, as he has many times before. No steam.

[pure raven]

This is not an argument lol, not because there is similarities between gear 2 and 4 that's means it's used in the same time its has never been said

[smoky basin]

like i said gear 4 is a combination of all the gears and haki. thats literally just a technicality

[sand sail]

That is the argument, we see the undeniable effects of Gear 2nd being used with Gear 4th, but you're saying it's somehow not based on...nothing. Do you have a reason to not believe it's being used that way?

Because it seems like you kind of ignored that Gear 2nd was incorporated already and made a theory against it lol

I could grab more pages of people burning calories without giving up tons of steam, too

Luffy and Kid rapidly burning calories, worst they have is a bit of gas.

[smoky basin]

okama i agree with u but ima be honest i dont think oda cared about the calorie science when he was making the gears

[sand sail]

And once again in Impel Down, it also happens to several characters in Enies Lobby repeatedly since we did have a direct technique specifically for rapidly burning and reintegrating calories into the body.

[sand sail]

Yeh, Griseo is the one who is insisting it's about the calories, I'm pointing out that's never been the case for the series is all. And it's not like it's an up in the air thing that Oda never touched on that we can make a reasonable assumption from, he's gone out of his way to show this very phenomenon over and over again in the series and it's never had the effect we're discussing here lol

[pure raven]

This is digesting not burning his body form is due to eating too much doesn't mean he burned what he ate to shrink its juts exaggerating drawing showing how much he is stuffed any way

[sand sail]

It's incredibly clear that the steam is going to be from Gear 2nd, given that's how it was pointed out the steam comes in the first place anyway from Luffy. No reason to think that's changed in Gear 2nd when we have no indication of it being some other thing all of a sudden

[smoky basin]

hundred percent agree with this statement

[sand sail]

He literally has to burn what he ate to shrink

That's how a body works

Digestion is what makes you big lmao

Burning is what makes you small

[pure raven]

I'm not insisting on the calories I told you that if you say that gear 4 steam is due to blood effect = gear 2 then I can also relate it to calories not blood, because either both of them hasn't been proven right men

[smoky basin]

griseo by your logic luffy would have to eat thousands of calories to unshrink

the steam is just blood circulating so fast it starts to boil

[sand sail]

But this is wrong, because both of these things have been directly proven wrong.

[smoky basin]

this isnt a fact but it makes the most logical sense

[sand sail]

That's why you insisting on the calories can't be correct, we've seen what you're saying it could be and it doesn't hold up

[smoky basin]

what?

[sand sail]

I'm not sure what you mean either here

[pure raven]

When luffy activate gear 3 he put air in his bone we saw him do so, when he use gear 4 in the same time right?
But in gear 2 whe never saw him activating it before using gear 4, I said it's simple for oda to draw that but it's not the case,
Also if gear 2 was used in the same time with gear 4, oda would have mentioned this important information he has nothing to loose @sand sail @smoky basin

[sand sail]

Oda didn't mention much of anything for Gear 4th, why would he explain that it's a combo of two gears when you can visibly confirm it yourself? All he's doing is blowing into his muscle instead of his bone. He has to, that's how the form is started, he doesn't have to do that for Gear 2nd anymore lol

As we see at the start of the time skip

[lapis prairie]

I'm still a little lost, but I thought gear 4 was 2+3+haki

[sand sail]

It basically is, in a simplified way. It's the same principles just applied together

[smoky basin]

this is exactly what ive been trying to explain for the last 15 minutes

[sand sail]

We can verify this because of the cloak of steam, something the series specifically pointed at as being because of his blood flow back when Gear 2nd was first used, so I'm not sure why that's somehow an unacceptable answer now

[smoky basin]

EXACTLY

well gear 4 has the steam above the neck

[lapis prairie]

right. My bad

[pure raven]

Gear 4 is muscle/air + haki not any other gear or thing in the process,
Some time luffy use gear 3 with gear 4 and that's not gear 4 being activated due to gear 3 + 2

[sand sail]

It's not exactly the two together, it's the exact same principles reapplied, and it's inarguably including Gear 2nd

[lapis prairie]

But gear 4 snake man is clearly part of gear 2

[sand sail]

Especially given the vast increase in speed and power that Luffy gets with the form, it's weird to assert it's not part of it

Yeh, there's really no argument here, Luffy's using Gear 2nd with it. That's why he's strong and super fast. That's why he has steam wafting off of his body.

[smoky basin]

gear 2 is always a part of gear 4, its just that theres so much going on that it gets swept under the rug

[coral sorrel]

@dusky acorn if Kidd is the pirate shanks is talking about, how do you think Kidd escaped, because it’s a yonko It would be surprising to escape to a yonko who’s right hand is literally a genius

[smoky basin]

like you notice it way less when he looks like son wukong bouncing up and down super buff with cool haki tattoo type things

[coral sorrel]

Although if Kidd is the pirate shanks is talking about it would give lots of interesting elements to characters from the red hairs, like what if benn beckman was the one to set up the rumor

[smoky basin]

i doubt kid is who shanks is talking about. other then the fight they had kidd has no relevance to the story or any connection to him

[lapis prairie]

What is this theory?

[coral sorrel]

Ehhhh, but there is a good reason why so much is hidden about Kidd

[smoky basin]

whats hidden

[sand sail]

Another thing for it here, steam starts the moment the form does, just like Gear 2nd

[smoky basin]

well its true we havent seen a kid backstory compared to law whom weve seen a lot off

but i cant think of how kid would be relevant end game

[sand sail]

Escaping an Emperor is difficult, but Kid may not have necessarily escaped

They could have just wrecked him and left him where he was

[smoky basin]

very true, shanks aint ruthless

[ancient vault]

I think it also has to do with what Kid got from BMs territory

[sand sail]

And either way, Kid and Killer are crafty folks too, they may very well have just gone and figured out a way out too

[smoky basin]

what was that

[ancient vault]

we dont know yet

[sand sail]

Depends on if he went to WCI before or after getting to Shanks

[smoky basin]

wait wtf when did kid even go to big mom

[sand sail]

I'm honestly assuming he went to WCI after since apparently people thought he lost his arm from it?

During the time skip

[smoky basin]

is that the seen when he was talking to luffy and mud boy in the wano prison

ohhhh i remember he did kill a sweet general

[sand sail]

We knew he fought with the Big Mom pirates back in Fishman Island

Injured, didn't kill lol

[smoky basin]

i thought that was mad monk for some reason

[sand sail]

Yeh, he's the one who beats the commander

Mkay, what happens is some time during the time skip, Kid tried to get into WCI and managed to sink a few ships and wound a commander, then grabbed something and left

At some point either before or after, he goes after Shanks and loses his arm. Then after both either way, we catch up to him later plotting revenge

[smoky basin]

so is that what big mom wanted to retrieve? i thought she wanted the copy of the poneglyph back

[sand sail]

Urouge went to WCI after Kid did yes, and he did defeat Snack, Kid just injured some commander and left

No, she wanted Zeus back

Big Mom doesn't know they have her poneglyph copy

[ancient vault]

Yeah and the BM part was relatively recently in FMI (arc)

[lapis prairie]

awww Shanks made them matching

[sand sail]

I don't think we were told when he'd hit it, but it happened at some point? It sounded recent with the way Tamago addressed it

[ancient vault]

He possibly scarred smoothy on the eye

[sand sail]

But yeh that makes me think WCI was the second stop

[ancient vault]

he said couple weeks ago or sth

[sand sail]

Yeh that's a possibility, we don't necessarily know that it was Snack that Kid fought, he could've even been the one to scar Cracker

Oh did he? Then yeh, he tried to go after Shanks first, then went to Big Mom after for sure

[ancient vault]

He actually said days

[smoky basin]

did brulee not tell her about the pony wtf

[sand sail]

Oh shit, then yeh we for sure know now

[smoky basin]

im happy i found this server i have weebs to talk to now abt my fav show

[pure raven]

Did luffy ever used red hawk with gear 4 snakeman? If yes then I will agreed with you guys about gear 2 being used with gear 4 if not then it's not the case

[smoky basin]

thats two completely different moves bro

red hawk is gear 2 plus haki with a lot of momentum

[pure raven]

But men gear 4 snakeman body form and speed and haki would let luffy use red hawk easily what are you talking about if he had gear 2 with gear 4 snakeman he would be able to use red hawk naturaly

[smoky basin]

no because thats not momentum

[sand sail]

Of course he can use Red Hawk in it. Trying to use that to decide the argument can't work, Red Hawk just isn't a move in his Gear 4th arsenal

[pure raven]

What 😅

[smoky basin]

with gear 4 the source of the force of his attacks are completely different

[sand sail]

If you have any doubt at all that he could use it just fine, you're very mistaken about how Luffy works. Just like he can move faster than Soru without Gear 2nd, he can still use stuff like Red Hawk with a different gear lol

Choosing not to use it isn't the same as being unable to when he does it, that seems to be where you're going here, but a lack of confirmation is not confirmation against it.

[smoky basin]

yeah but arguably his snakeman thing is just way more powerful

[sand sail]

Yeh, of course. Not even arguable, everything he does in Snakeman is going to be significantly stronger than just a Red Hawk lol

[pure raven]

The same way steam going out of his body isn't a confirmation of using gear 2 with gear, where there is a lack of confirmation in your statement as well we never Sa him activating gear 2 as well before gear

[sand sail]

No, steam going out his body is confirmed ONLY with Gear 2nd. That's the difference here.

[pure raven]

This is leading no where, I'm doubtful about both the supposition but I'm leaning more to the supposition that gear 4 has no gear 2

[sand sail]

What you're insisting is a chance that, despite no other mechanism in luffy's body doing anything close to this, there must be some other reason for his emitting steam from his body. That is almost impossible just because of what we do know it comes from already

[pure raven]

No steam can also be related to muscle energy draining more than blood fast circulation giving steam

[sand sail]

Sure, there's a very, very slim chance that you're right on this. But so far, given that we have no reason at all to believe otherwise, he's still using the same principles in it, and we see an absolute increase in his physical capabilities that don't just come with increased strength, there's just no reason to think otherwise lol

[sand sail]

Not in One Piece.

That's where we're meeting our problem, that's not how it's ever been in the series outside of like anime filler. Luffy makes steam exclusively from Gear 2nd and nothing else so far.

[pure raven]

From gear 4 too and up until now it's not proven if it's because of gear 2 or because only because of gear 4 being related to muscle.

[sand sail]

Yeah, that's not an argument. You're saying because it hasn't been outright stated, that fact we learned before somehow must have changed. That's not how it works lol

[pure raven]

It's the same argument you used here men

[sand sail]

It also can't be muscle related, Luffy has the steam just going into the form, not after he moves or anything.

No, it's not. I'm saying we have an established fact already that we can go with, and there's no reason to go against it because nothing Oda's shown us would allow it yet

You're saying that it might be something else on the basis of nothing but you assuming for some reason that the same principle for the Gears isn't being used right here too

[pure raven]

He is burning calories when he puff his muscle m he is basically draining his muscle energy in that form every second that's it and that's why he pass out after not because of gear 2

[smoky basin]

youre just not listening to us bro

[sand sail]

We're having two similar arguments, but you're misusing the lack of evidence to represent yours, that's why it can't really be right here

No, he passes out because he abuses his haki lol

[sand sail]

This also can't be right because we've seen how his calories are burned, and it's not during his use of the form at all.

[smoky basin]

this is a stated fact

[sand sail]

Just changing into the form doesn't put him down, it's using it that does

So the steam can't be because of it

[smoky basin]

also can i say that he doesnt go tiny from gear 3 anymore

[pure raven]

I agree with the fact he pass out because of haki but he also drain his energy due to gear 4

[smoky basin]

that was more of a nerf for when he just got it to hold it back. we saw the same with gear two where at first the drawbacks were crippling but as he was getting closer to a new power his older gears became normal

[sand sail]

Sure, but you're kinda rewriting the Gears here lol. All i'm doing is reiterating what we've already learned about these, but we can't insert something new because of not understanding a visual quality of the form

For example, you said if Luffy could use Red Hawk in Snakeman you'd believe it...but there's nothing he can do in Gear 2nd that Snakeman wouldn't be able to do even better.

We haven't seen it, Oda's never confirmed it, but there's absolutely no reason to think he couldn't when all he's doing is just moving his body a certain way. These aren't magic powers locked into certain circumstances that have to be met, he's just boosting his body universally lol

[smoky basin]

yeah but gear 4 is more utility than just raw power. his different forms accomplish different things. theres no point to use redhawk

[sand sail]

A lack of evidence is not evidence against something being the case, but hypothesis without evidence isn't worth entertaining against the actual established facts that have not been doubted in the series itself

[pure raven]

Don't make it sound like that to win the argument, lol
What I said is for now if gear 4 really is using gear 2 or not, I asked you if you ever saw snakemen using red hawk or not to prove if gear 4 is used with gear 2 but ik the end no he never used red hawk with snakemen that prove that thfere is chance gear 4 is not used with grear 2

[sand sail]

But that doesn't prove anything at all, that's not evidence lol

[smoky basin]

gear 4 literally is a combination of the previous gears and haki

[sand sail]

He also has never used Gum Gum Pistol in Gear 4th, is he now incapable of it?

It's a combination of the principles of the other gears

[pure raven]

that's not evidence but it was a way to think if it's right or not, the fact that steam is coming out of gear 4 doesn't prove at all that gear 4 has gear 2 , it's also a lack of evidence from your side

[sand sail]

No, that is actual evidence. That is hard evidence, because we know what causes the steam, and nothing's contradicted it

That's textbook evidence lol

[coral sorrel]

No shanks might have wanted to kill him, he kills people that harm his friends

[smoky basin]

as an example how would snakeman achieve that speed without the blood flow from gear2

[sand sail]

Sure, Shanks may have wanted to kill him, that's perfectly reasonable too

In which case, he just managed to escape

[coral sorrel]

But i think if Kidd is the topic shanks discussed about, people think it wouldn’t make sense, but the truth is we really know nothing about Kidd, his heritage or anything, he is like the most unknown supernova besides urouge

[pure raven]

Gear 4 is literally puffing his muscle with air and using haki in the same time not the other way you saying
Gear 3 is just attack supporting gear 4

[sand sail]

Gear 4th is literally using the same principles. It's not an exact application minus Gear 2nd, since that's just increasing bloodflow for faster and stronger strikes

[smoky basin]

what are you saying dude

[sand sail]

He chooses to blow into muscle instead of bone, that's it

[smoky basin]

i give up on this argument i feel like youre actually trying to wind me up

[coral sorrel]

Kidd is kinda set up to do something to the celestial dragons and kinda fight luffy

[pure raven]

For you steam is actual evidence but for me steam is only gear 4 producing steam likd gear 2 does, not necessarily because of it because first we never saw luffy using gear 2 before puffing his muscle and gear 2 is basically pushing his blood not like gear 4 puffing his muscle with air he can't do both thing in the same time by just puffing air in his body luffy never used gear 2 with the act of puffing air in his body

[coral sorrel]

Because in the auction we see a statement talk about how much of disgusting the celestial dragons are, the statements we first get from the supernovas are what they later end up doing, apoo is a traitor, drake is from the navy, bonney is like a royal who wants to search for kuma

[smoky basin]

i can see that. so far ive just thought of him as some filler character to populate the story and give a bit of competition to luffy

[proud nest]

I don’t have a theory but I think Katakuri should join the straw hats

[weary cliff]

Why assume he can't do both?

[smoky basin]

honestly bro same 🤣

[coral sorrel]

Lol you’re in for a surprise then, people are trashing Kidd but j think Kidd will have a bigger role in wano and just one piece in general, because notice how Kidd is connected to all of the yonko besides bb, and he might be too, since the fights that happened in saboady portrayed them to be important, like Kidd fought apoo in saboady but in wano they later were shown to be enemies, killer fought urouge, so if urouge is the 10th titanic captain that would mean they are somehow connected

[proud nest]

Lol at least someone agrees

[smoky basin]

im not trashing kid its just that he hasnt really done much in the way of noteworthiness to consider him equal to law and luffy

[pure raven]

I explained that, re-read what I said please, I can't assume luffy having gear 2 with gear 4 when he never pushed his blood before using gear 4, while gear 4 is only related to puffing air to muscle + haki while gear 2 is related to pushing blood cerculation its 2 different act that can't be done just by puffing air in muscle

[coral sorrel]

Yes but the thing is, Kidd pre timeskip was said to be ahead of luffy in bounty, this post ts we already so much from law, but we also get info from Kidd in the sidelines like his arm, him getting a treasure back, him injuring a commander(I hope it is smoothie) now that we’re in wano we will know how Kidd fully is as a character and what is endgame role is as a character, he is already seen as a threat towards big mom and maybe even shanks if Kidd is the one who discussed

[weary cliff]

He can be using g2 passively to pump as he inflates. They aren't mutually exclusive

[smoky basin]

yeah he was ahead before because he used to massacre citizens who laughed at his dreams

[sand sail]

But there's no other mechanism in Luffy's body stated to be able to produce steam like this, and in general through the series at large

[smoky basin]

not bc of power

[sand sail]

He's not burning sweat, his calories don't actually get rapidly burned until after the form ends as we directly see, so how is this not evidence against your theory here?

[coral sorrel]

No, the thing people get wrong is that Kidd and luffy were on par with each other in terms of how much chaos they did it’s just that Kidd is ahead because he murders citizens

[sand sail]

You're saying basically because Oda hasn't hard confirmed it there's a chance, and while that chance exists, it's extremely slim in the face of the established fact that we do have

[smoky basin]

thats what i just said

[pure raven]

What I said about calories is just supposition not what I believe in to be the system of what's happening

[sand sail]

We don't have to see Luffy pumping his blood, we never do post-skip anyway, he doesn't have to show it anymore. That doesn't mean he doesn't do it.

[coral sorrel]

Thought you said Kidd didn’t do anything but kill civs to get bounty

[sand sail]

Sure, but then what do you think is happening? We know it's not burning anything else because there's just nothing else left to burn

[smoky basin]

no i meant that the killing civs is the only reason he was ahead

tbh idk what he couldve even done compared to luffy invading 2 judicial islands but oh well

[coral sorrel]

Oh, well, imo, Kidd being the guy talked about makes more sense than bb and luffy

They already know how much of a destruction bb is like marineford

[smoky basin]

shanks could also be talking about whos who

[weary cliff]

Literally anyone makes more sense than Luffy

[smoky basin]

maybe hes the reason cp0 is in wano

[coral sorrel]

Who’s who doesn’t make any sense at all

[pure raven]

I wonder what Kidd did to get his arm taken away by Shanks

[pure raven]

We don't know, calories and burning muscle energy is just supposition of what happening, so in the end it can be like you said it's because of gear 2 but for now I can't believe it's because of gear 2, because gear 2 and gear 4 are different act that can't be done in the same time they are different procedure like gear 3 is different from gear 4 and can't be done in the same time but only if luffy started to puff his bones with air

[smoky basin]

well he's the one who took the gum gum from whos whos ship back when he was cipher pol

[coral sorrel]

Who’s who may be a former cp9 agent and got a fruit taken from him but that’s it

[weary cliff]

We know why CP0 is in Wano lol they have a vested interest in the weapons production

[sand sail]

How can they not be done at the same time?

[coral sorrel]

But what did who’s who do to shanks

[smoky basin]

you have a point, idk

[sand sail]

They're two entirely different things happening with 0 overlap, there's no reason that he can't do them both at once.

[coral sorrel]

We know Kidd did something shanks to make him so pissed off that he cut his arm off

[smoky basin]

he probably attacked his family

[coral sorrel]

Shanks isn’t the type of guy to just kill people for no reason, they said this in the story about him

[weary cliff]

Agree with Bean. What mechanical interaction prevents both at once?

[smoky basin]

dude if kid attacked shanks then i think getting an arm chopped is reasonable

[coral sorrel]

I think Kidd killed some of his crewmates

[proud nest]

[smoky basin]

some filler crewmates

[coral sorrel]

But it’s not the important ones, it’s the fodder ones

[weary cliff]

If Kid killed a Red hair, he'd be dead

[smoky basin]

no way he's touching shank's caped boys

[coral sorrel]

That’s the thing, they want to kill him, but he escaped

[proud nest]

Kidd can’t even kill a red hair to begin with

[smoky basin]

true actually

[pure raven]

Because gear 2 is luffy pushing his blood with elasticity and after the time skip we always see luffy pushing his blood by the act of pushing one limb either his hand or his legs,but never before gear 4 so why would he do that act when only activating gear 2 when he can do that without pushing one of his limbs in gear 4 if we suppose he does really do that in gear 4

[coral sorrel]

That’s what going to be so impressive about Kidd, he escaped shanks’s wrath from killing the fodder red hairs

[smoky basin]

@sand sail this is not worth your time

[smoky basin]

yeah but maybe he failed at trying to attack someone. like what if shanks preemtively cut off his arm to prevent one of his crew dying

[sand sail]

We've seen him do it post-skip maybe twice at all. We almost never see the process of it happening

[smoky basin]

and then kid ran away because he realized the strength diff

[sand sail]

And what you're saying here doesn't really make sense to me, what are you getting at exactly?

[proud nest]

Gear 2 or gear 3

[sand sail]

If you want to go with activation being some kind of evidence here, Luffy's second time using Gear 4th ever, he does without blowing any air into himself at all.

[weary cliff]

Even if we don't see the activation, Luffy doesn't become rigid in g4. His vascular system is still elastic. I don't see the conflict

[sand sail]

2nd

[proud nest]

Rewatch Dressrosa. He used Gear 2 so many times. Not even the only arc

[coral sorrel]

I think he cut his arm off in an attempt to try to kill him but he escaped because of something else, I wouldn’t want it to be smart planning since benn beckman is literally smart af, so they would not escape by that, instead I think it might have had to do this Kidd’s conqueror haki changing the faith of his fight

[sand sail]

Reread what I said.

[coral sorrel]

The funny thing is, they probably don’t know where Kidd is, actually, I think it would be more fitting to say Kidd was about to kill shanks’s crewmates

But once they realized Kidd came out with one of the strongest crewmates of kaido and all of kaido’s underlings and with kaido’s head they probably gonna be like, oh shit you weren’t wrong this guy is dangerous

[smoky basin]

wait what

[coral sorrel]

Kidd is going to get new crewmates in wano

[smoky basin]

will he??

[coral sorrel]

I think he is going to take kaido’s crew, but not the gifters, mainly the pleasures and the waiters

[smoky basin]

well that would make sense

him and law's crews need buffs if theyre gonna hang with luffy

[proud nest]

Law’s crew is irrelevant. Most of them are useless.

[coral sorrel]

Ehhhh, no, just Kidd will get new crewmates, and the new top crewmates will most likely be ulti page one and who’s who

[smoky basin]

no way he's getting 3 of the flying six

[visual merlin]

how's he getting those 3 lol

[smoky basin]

where did you even get that theory

[coral sorrel]

Well it’s simple
Who’s who is a guy who hates shanks, Kidd hates shanks, if Kidd is royalty and hates the celestial dragons since he has the blood of the celestial, who’s who used to work for the world gov so it’s only natural he would want to join in on Kidd
Page one and ulti are really simple- they have had some struggle with big mom and even got beaten by her, which could share a common ground with kidd since he is about to beat big mom, or so we think

[visual merlin]

okay slow down

why would kidd be a CD

and how would they even end up talking about that

WW also has left the WG, he probably no longer praises CDs

As for Ulti and P1, the problem is they aren't seeing this at all (since they are defeated), so I don't see how that comes up between them

[coral sorrel]

Well not necessarily a CD, but his family has the opportunity be one, because they are the descendants of the ancient kingdom, their opportunity just got ruined because of Kidd who has the blood of pirate, and by the pirate I mean captain John

[visual merlin]

?

This feels like a whole lot of stretching

[coral sorrel]

This isn’t stretching

[pure raven]

Like I said you may be right and that gear 4 has already a gear 2 used in the same time, but for now as there is no real evidence I can't consider steam being what prove gear 2 being used, so I'm not sure of both hypothese, gear 2 / or no gear 2 being used and that steam is only because of gear 4 being related to muscle.
in the end i was defending the possibility of gear 4 not having gear 2 not me believing its 100 % the case 👍

[visual merlin]

Kidd being a CD or a descendant is definitely a stretch

[reef grotto]

I was aware of the fact that there was royal symbolism surrounding kid but the captain john link I missed completely

[sand sail]

That message was to @proud nest lmao

[visual merlin]

as well as him being captain john's son yes

[smoky basin]

those are the loosest possible connections possible

[coral sorrel]

Kidd is based on William Kidd and eustace the monk

[smoky basin]

he mightve meant shanks. shanks being a cd is a big theory

[sand sail]

But yeh, there's an extremely small possibility that Gear 4th doesn't incorporate Gear 2nd. The problem with it is just that there's no other explanation for it, everything so far has just been conjecture that the series has told us doesn't hold up

[coral sorrel]

That doesn’t make any sense though

[visual merlin]

And again, how would they meet? And when they meet how does the topic of both Shanks and the CDs come up between them? And then you'd have to explain why WW still praises CDs despite being a pirate now

[smoky basin]

that makes infinitely more sense then kid being a cd

[coral sorrel]

Oh, did I say WW praise the CD, oh I mean he would hate the CD since they were most likely behind on him almost dying

[sand sail]

Both are equally senseless tbh lol

[visual merlin]

Okay, so he hates the CDs but likes Kidd for whatever reason

[smoky basin]

true but we know shanks is important and we know that he has pull with the marines and the 5 elder stars

[visual merlin]

now how do they meet, and bring up these topics?

[coral sorrel]

Kidd literally talked about how trash they were which no supernova iirc has done in the saboady besides luffy( he didn’t talked he showed) , that def means something since topics that were said by the supernovas were later brought up upon them, drake talked about the navy, ends up being in the navy, apoo talks about betrayal, ends up betraying, you see the cycle?

[visual merlin]

Law talked about becoming PK

[smoky basin]

so did everyone else

[coral sorrel]

That is a horrible argument

[visual merlin]

this is your argument

Kidd said something so he must be connected in such a way

[coral sorrel]

No it isn’t, not even close, because I am making a distinct thing that relates to just them, not something that is meant to be a competition between the supernovas so obviously law would say that

[visual merlin]

This is distinct. About as distinct as Kidd mentioning that CDs are bad people after seeing them do bad things

Obviously Kidd would say they're bad

[coral sorrel]

Well let’s relook at saboady

[visual merlin]

also, what instances are you referring to when you say drake talked about the navy and apoo talked about betrayal?

[coral sorrel]

Marineford

[sand sail]

Drake was in the Navy before he was even a pirate, though

[coral sorrel]

No one even makes a statement about this except Kidd https://tenseikizokunoisekaiboukenroku.com/images/05Riv2S46PR6EQLacxYc1611717957.jpg

[coral sorrel]

So are we gonna say apoo has betrayed other pirates before he betrayed Kidd

[sand sail]

This argument seems strange to me, but Laww really did give you the same one back. By your logic, Law would be going for One Piece

Sure, why not?

[smoky basin]

temma as cool as kidd getting useful crewmates would be, there is literally no proof at all or reason to believe those 3

[sand sail]

We don't know Apoo's life, you say this like it's somehow an outrageous possibility

[coral sorrel]

There is proof, you guys just disagree with it

[smoky basin]

what proof?

[visual merlin]

Yes sometimes people say things that don't spiral into an entire conversation.

[sand sail]

But I bring that up because you said Drake spoke about the Navy and was later connected, therefore it was foreshadowing. But Drake was introduced as a former marine already, so that's not a good bit of evidence

[smoky basin]

one sentence that he said? is that the whole proof?

[sand sail]

Apoo, likewise

[smoky basin]

i mean sure kid has to be useful eventually so i hope he has some kinda secret but the whole cd thing is far fetched and those three tobi roppo are even more far fetched

[sand sail]

Did actually betray before he ever talked about it

[coral sorrel]

Where though

[sand sail]

Because it's not brought up until Wano, but Apoo springs his betrayal months before

[visual merlin]

is this what you were referring to?

[sand sail]

So the line of pattern you've identified doesn't seem to actually exist

[smoky basin]

he was undercover the whole time

[sand sail]

Yeh, but that's not relevant. The point is it was going on long before he ever talked about it, but Temma's argument is that because it was mentioned it's going to happen later

[smoky basin]

true i guess thats not relevant to the reader

[coral sorrel]

So you think Kidd who is pretty much set up to be a guy who connects others like a magnet plus COC is not going to get crewmates who pretty much Kidd is like the only way they could stay relevant through out the story and not just some opponents that were for the strawhats to grow

[smoky basin]

coc?

[sand sail]

Not only is Kid not set up to be that, literally every other Supernova in Wano besides Killer actually is more suited to it than he is so far

[smoky basin]

suited to what i think i missed something

[sand sail]

Having Conqueror's is about the best bit of evidence you've got so far, that actually does give credit to the hypothesis that he'd gain some crew members after Wano

Not the Flying Six, but some folks sure

[coral sorrel]

?,

[sand sail]

Suited to gaining new allies. Kid's the one who hasn't gone out and actually grown his crew visibly yet in that way

[smoky basin]

he might get some random smile eaters that are kinda strong or maybe even headliners

[sand sail]

Law, we've seen recruiting. Luffy does it constantly, and people just want to go with him anyway

People follow Zoro all the time, and Apoo and Drake had their ally gatherings

[smoky basin]

apoo and drake had built in groups

zoro tho?

[sand sail]

Not groups, just a couple new folks, or tacking on to another

[smoky basin]

got it

[sand sail]

Kid's only ever joined another, he's never really been able to set his own team up

[coral sorrel]

But literally, we have interesting story plots to the f6 anyway, and if people want them to be more relevant, Kidd imo is like the only person who could have them relevant for endgame, it’s pretty much a coindence that Kidd and who’s who both have the same hatred for shanks, I don’t know any other pirates alive besides the yonko who hate shanks I think, and the yonko are already connected to Kidd

[sand sail]

I'm sure plenty of pirates hate Shanks, he's an Emperor. The Emperors are connected to all of the Worst Generation

[coral sorrel]

When we get a grasp more of the three I mentioned then I gurantee that these three flying six members joining Kidd would make sense

[smoky basin]

by that logic everyone hates everyone at the top

[sand sail]

It doesn't make sense tho, they were captains

[smoky basin]

why doesnt everyone form a group with everyone to take out everyone

[sand sail]

Why join Kid instead of just going to be captains?

[sand sail]

Because they hate each other almost as much

[smoky basin]

yeah true, i cant see any of the flying 6 following orders from anyone other than an emperor

[quaint dove]

Because forming a group with others to go for the top dogs would still be super risky

[visual merlin]

Page one and ulti was something I'd buy before, but now they are both out and won't be seeing kidd beat big mom even if he does

[sand sail]

With Kaido, it seemed to work because it's implied he just beats everyone into submission lol

[visual merlin]

WW just makes no real sense

[sand sail]

^ I can see that maybe

[smoky basin]

yeah but they wanna all be pirate king so they cant just wait for the yonko to die of old age

[sand sail]

Page One and Ulti going over once everything is done

[visual merlin]

I still do hope they do, since I don't want them to get thrown away

especially since they're young

[coral sorrel]

Because Kidd’s whole character arc is to trust in others, I don’t think just having luffy to trust in would be great for him, maybe actually making the effort to look for crewmates who are loyal to him would be great

[visual merlin]

but as for WW, he's nowhere near Kidd, and if they were to meet there's no reason any of the shanks grudge shit would be brought up

[sand sail]

Kid's character arc isn't trusting in others

[smoky basin]

well wano is unaffiliated with the wg so its possible after he got ruined by shanks and lost the gum gum, he was targetted for execution by the navy and ran to wano and joined kaido for cover

[coral sorrel]

What is it?

[sand sail]

Really, just working with them at all. Trust has never really been an issue minus Apoo

[visual merlin]

sure? But none of that means it would make sense for him to join kidd

[smoky basin]

im not saying that they will join kid. im saying it makes no sense to join kid

[sand sail]

Kid's whole thing is more humility and cooperation lol

[visual merlin]

ah

[smoky basin]

i was saying thats maybe why whos who joined kaido

unless WW isnt whos who and im just lost

[quaint dove]

I feel like F6 go down here

And don’t come back later

Only characters I can maybe see coming back are P1 and Ulti cuz they’re young

[smoky basin]

yeah the f6 kinda have to go down soon

[proud nest]

Nico Robin gets advanced armament haki and becomes the Pirate Queen

[smoky basin]

cause then king queen and jack cant be beat. and idk how many more episodes wano is supposed to be

[smoky basin]

bro if all of the strawhats achieved basic haki they could deadass be yonko level

[sand sail]

This channel is a no-meme zone.

[sand sail]

It kinda depends on how they go down. Jack for example is fine, he's not making it past Inuarashi I'd bet lol

[proud nest]

I’m not making memes. She would be Admiral/Yonko level

[sand sail]

That's a meme, pls stop

[smoky basin]

i mean she could grab the logia

but she still wouldnt be that good since her base durability is not that great

[sand sail]

Being able to grab a logia isn't going to help the crew much on the whole yeh

Robin getting haki isn't going to be some revolutionary super power or anything lol

[smoky basin]

yeah but if every strawhat achieved basic haki they would be elevated a few tiers as a crew

[ancient vault]

Jack made it to yonko commander without haki I think theyre fine

[rancid kiln]

I thought jack had haki

Or is it just his ancient zoan fruit that makes his skin hard

[slate zodiac]

For those who have seen it thoughts on shanks celestial dragon theory?

[dusky crest]

Definitely not!!

No way in hell oda is making luffy biggest pirate idol a part of the world gov.

[grizzled fog]

His skin has never been highlighted a particularly hard. It’s possible jack has haki but at this point it seems like he doesn’t

[drifting gyro]

I'm thinking yamatos Zoan type it mythical

[fathom matrix]

I could be wrong, but it may have been stated he doesn't. Either in the anime or in a vivre card

let me check

[grizzled fog]

Nah it was never stated that he doesn’t. Rather the lack of a statement or something saying he does is what makes a lot of people think he doesn’t have it

[fathom matrix]

I checked and yeah, it's never stated he does or doesn't

[hazy frigate]

I think it's a dragon qilin zoan type fruit

Which would certainly make it mythical

[smoky basin]

i genuinely thought he did have haki at least for his swords thats crazy

[craggy pumice]

King and Queen havent displayed Haki yet either

I think King will definitely have it though

[modest skiff]

King and Queen not having haki would be outrageous.

[sand sail]

Not really, you see what they've been able to do without it so far lol

[pure raven]

Poor paramecia users 😅

[fathom matrix]

I mean, Nekomamushi I think was stated to lack Haki, where as Inurashi has it

and they're kinda on par?

[queen arrow]

Neko's card was corrected to include haki

[fathom matrix]

OH IT WAS? Thanks for telling me

[queen arrow]

Jack's card wasn't changed, which is the important part

[lone plaza]

i still wanna know why big mom was so interested in King’s race

[queen arrow]

because she wants all races

[lone plaza]

yes but like what is king’s race and why is he the last

[fathom matrix]

It could be that he was so insanely strong, Kaido gave him a pass. I can imagine for very formal chains of command, they would expect you to know haki at least, but Kaido probably just prioritised power overall.

[queen arrow]

Kaido certainly doesn't have a very formal chain of command in his meritocracy

[fathom matrix]

ye

[queen arrow]

and yeah that's pretty much the point, Jack is insanely strong without having Haki

[lone plaza]

kaidos crew is just based on power

same as blackbeard

[queen arrow]

and it's not like you need haki to have good leadership skills either

[fathom matrix]

I think if it wasn't for Queen and King, it wouldn't be as orderly

I'm not saying if it wasn't for them it would fall apart, but I think they surely had a hand in managing stuff

[visual merlin]

because he's the only one left, and Big mom hasn't gotten him yet

as for what it is, who knows, but it wouldn't matter what it is really

as long as its a race, bm wants it

[fathom matrix]

1 of 3, she's missing. Do you think she's missing peeps from the sky?

[lone plaza]

i mean like what happened to the rest of his race

[visual merlin]

idk then, they died somehow, but that wouldn't change BM wanting them

[queen arrow]

without King or Queen there just would be other people as the all stars

[visual merlin]

I mean he's the only one left of his race, and maybe

[fathom matrix]

maybe she has no idea about the skypiens, brykens and shandorians?

[visual merlin]

Urouge attacked her place, if nothing else she knows of him

and if you're implying those are the 3 races, that can't be it because giants are one of them

[fathom matrix]

Nonono, I mean, I'm guessing she has no idea about them at all

like, if she was told about sky races that had wings, she'd be shocked thinking "Huh, I guess I'm missing 6 races"

[visual merlin]

oh, then still no Im sure she's aware of them

[fathom matrix]

Maybe she just doesn't want any? Or there probably are some skypiens and such on tatland? But I'm sure she would have had sky raced kids

[visual merlin]

She has the best intel network apparently, and if anyone knows races it'd be her. There's no way she's not aware of sky islands and the races that inhabit them. Urouge has attacked her place for example

She'd want them as long as they are a race

Also, Kaido knows of sky islands

[fathom matrix]

That is true

Maybe the skypiens are just not in her best interest? Like, what woud be the point?

I'm not saying they're useless, I'm suggesting if B.M saw them as useless or not needed

[visual merlin]

BM doesn't get races because they're useful, she gets them because she wants a place with all of them

so there's no way she'd just not go after them

[waxen dust]

Big Mom is a “humanitarian”

[fathom matrix]

See? That raises a lot of questions

[visual merlin]

That just means she either already has one, or is looking for one

[fathom matrix]

I think all of her kids were revealed in concept art and in the story or such, and I can't recall ANY skypien children, cause you know she would have had one

IDK, she stopped having kids 8 years ago