manga-theories

[rugged harbor]

U don't

[fierce axle]

the government was holding the gum gum fruit because it was rocks D. Xebecs

[rugged harbor]

We went through why this is almost impossible about 4 times since chapter was out u can look for any of em lmao

U think white beard , big mom and kaido wouldn't say anything when Luffy is using their former captain's fruit? , Kaido went as far as to make fun of it

[fierce axle]

ah true

[unreal marlin]

Could Rogers fruit be the gum gum

[visual merlin]

no

[rugged harbor]

Same applies to Roger and joy boy is possible but unlikely , probably a reason that is still unknown to us

[fierce axle]

no

[visual merlin]

joyboy is possible, roger isn't at this point

nor is rocks really

[fierce axle]

joyboy makes sense

[rugged harbor]

Same logic applies to Roger , any of his crew especially Rayleigh would ve said smth

Another theory is none of em did and it's smth vegapunk related

[visual merlin]

ray, sengoku, tsuru, marco, wb, big mom, etc

[manic hazel]

does anyone else think that Akainu is the strongest in the series'

[rugged harbor]

Nope he aint

[manic hazel]

and that admiral > yonko

[visual merlin]

there are people who think that

but I don't understand why

[rugged harbor]

Shanks stopped his attack with a mere sword in marineford

[manic hazel]

i am one

[visual merlin]

I see

[rugged harbor]

He is very strong but not yonko strong lmao

[visual merlin]

I mean, it's his sword

[sonic plaza]

i can explain why youre wrong

[rugged harbor]

The Marines as a whole equals to one yonko

That's how the balance of power is preserved

[sonic plaza]

look at the balance on the 3 great power system. Just the 4 yonko crews alone have to be balanced out by the entire marine hq and the warlords

[visual merlin]

Yea, the yonko crews are one another's enemy on top of that

[sonic plaza]

marine hq has 4 admirals, many vice admirals, and a ton of soldiers and very strong warlords like Mihawk and Doffy

[visual merlin]

and the marines still felt the need to make the warlords

so that says something

[sonic plaza]

if admirals* > yonkos, then the yonkos would be wiped out by now

[fierce axle]

yeah I don't think Kaido would lose to akainu tbh

[manic hazel]

kizaru said he could take out both the Kaido pirates and Big Mom pirates

[fierce axle]

or fuji

[visual merlin]

I doubt any yonko would

[visual merlin]

he did not say that

[manic hazel]

he said he could handle their alliance at wano, right?

[fierce axle]

I think Kizaru is a ball buster lol

[visual merlin]

He asked if he should go to wano, but this was also before they had allied, he probably wouldn't have directly fought either anyway

[sonic plaza]

even if he did, he was obviously underestimating them. Akainu even told him that they couldnt take them down

[rugged harbor]

id honestly go as far as to say that cp0 members are as strong as akainu @manic hazel lol

[visual merlin]

well why would you say that?

[sonic plaza]

eh. i would say the strongest ones would be about as strong as the commanders on yonko crews

[visual merlin]

at best the strongest one might be as powerful as an admiral

[sonic plaza]

or that

[visual merlin]

but uh, several or all cp0 members being as strong as akainu? yea no

[oak mural]

all admirals have awekened thier df right?

[manic hazel]

but akainu is the last villain. he must be the strongest!

[hazy prawn]

Luffy's awakened df power ||is to turn time into rubber||

[visual merlin]

we dunno

[visual merlin]

how do we know akainu is the last villain

[sonic plaza]

we dont know if logias can awaken

[oak mural]

kuzan and sakazuki had awekeaned thier df right ?

[visual merlin]

last villain is more likely to be Imu, or blackbeard

[sonic plaza]

we dont know

[visual merlin]

maybe, we don't know

[fierce axle]

probably blackbeard

[rugged harbor]

cp0 is the strongest cypher pol unit , they work directly under the nobles , they have to be the strongest of the strongest

[visual merlin]

they don't have to be though

[sonic plaza]

its very plausible that punk hazard was just created by their overall strength and capability as devil fruit users

[rugged harbor]

so to assume they're just as strong as the admirals if not stronger is not that much of a stretch

[slow quarry]

Btw does Queen have any kind of connection with vinsmoke judge ?

[visual merlin]

cp9 is the most secret, and is very competent too

yet pre timeskip strawhats took them down

[oak mural]

ye mads

[hazy prawn]

Using luffy's awakened df, the straw hats will time travel back to the void century

[slow quarry]

Like did he work for him ?

[rugged harbor]

he just said he did in this last chapter

[manic hazel]

yeah. admirals > yonko and CP0 >= yonko

[visual merlin]

Jones

is kaku stronger than kaido

[sonic plaza]

they were in MADS together

[oak mural]

last chap it was said he worked with judge in grp called mads

[manic hazel]

close

[rugged harbor]

more like Yonko > strongest cp0 > admirals > less powerful cp0 members (thats my point @visual merlin )

[visual merlin]

do you actually believe this?

[oak mural]

trolling at this point

[manic hazel]

yes

[rugged harbor]

jones if u actually believe that ure just trolling lmao

[visual merlin]

I would recommend a reread of the series

[manic hazel]

i get all this info from tiktok

[visual merlin]

stop getting your info from tiktok

[oak mural]

i doubt rob lucci to be even as good as queen

[rugged harbor]

he's trolling @visual merlin

[manic hazel]

nah im actually noy

[visual merlin]

being direct subordinates to the CDs doesn't make them stronger than admirals. its similar to how cp9 was such a special group, to the point of secrecy, and yet got beaten by pre timeskip strawhats

[oak mural]

bruh how in the world do u belive that kaku is as good as kaido

[visual merlin]

do you think kaku and stussy are stronger than fujitora?

[sonic plaza]

do you guys think MADS has a connection to Vegapunk?

[ancient vault]

lol

[manic hazel]

stussy was an underground yonko, so ofc

[visual merlin]

or, do you think kaku and stussy are as strong as fujitora?

[oak mural]

i guess so

[visual merlin]

Im gonna have to ask you to stop shitposting please

[rugged harbor]

no but i think lucci probably is at this point

[oak mural]

underground yonko can u explain it further ?

[sonic plaza]

lucci is likely just as strong as current whos who

[visual merlin]

he's shitposting

[oak mural]

^^

[ancient vault]

u mean current lucci?

[visual merlin]

a little stronger, I'd bet

[oak mural]

what do u think cp0 will do after the raid ends

[visual merlin]

I don't think being cp0 is enough to say that

because also

do you think lucci came out of the timeskip so much stronger than luffy did?

[sonic plaza]

i mean, around the same level. Whos Who has the a similar devil fruit, but much better cause of ancient zoan durability, and he def knows haki as well for being a skilled fighter on kaidos crew, and has his own deadly forms of rukoshiki

[rugged harbor]

not so much but he probably got alot stronger too thats what im thinking

[sonic plaza]

so all we can assume is that lucci got strong haki

[visual merlin]

yea, he may have gotten to where luffy got from timeskip

but if he came out of the timeskip as strong as fujitora, that's significantly stronger than luffy came out of the timeskip

[slow quarry]

Nope, something tells me Luffy is still powerful than lucci. But I really look forward for a second round between them

[manic hazel]

are lucci going to fight luffy again

[visual merlin]

I think they will clash at least

[rugged harbor]

i mean it is possible that lucci got that strong bc he has the "prodigy" card @visual merlin

[visual merlin]

its possible, but do you really believe that?

that lucci grew that much more in the timeskip compared to luffy

[rugged harbor]

true but as i said just speculations

[sonic plaza]

luffy got training from one of the best haki users in the world

[rugged harbor]

just as much* not more , luffy got it bc of rayleigh (a legend as his teacher) and lucci got it from being a "prodigy"

[visual merlin]

Im just looking for your opinion on the matter, if you doubt he grew that much more than luffy over timeskip he's probably not as strong as fuji

[slow quarry]

Lol chopper turned into a much smaller size

[visual merlin]

then lucci isn't as strong as fuji

[sonic plaza]

i doubt someone like lucci would have access to insanely good training

[manic hazel]

i feel like fuji isnt super strong himself, but is good as an assist to battle

[visual merlin]

?

he's an admiral

[manic hazel]

like at marineford, he couldve dropped everything on the Moby Dick and it wouldve ended

[visual merlin]

okay but, the things he's actually done, have been him just being very strong

like holding back, yet still fighting well against sabo, or fending off luffy, or fighting law along with doffy

[manic hazel]

he clashed with TS zoro no enma

[weary cliff]

We saw their training. It just CP9 on a secret island while evading the marines. So you'd be right

[visual merlin]

yes that happened as well

[rugged harbor]

yeah what fuji did in dressrosa managed to show hes extremely powerful

[unreal hearth]

@manic hazel fujitora is powerful and on par with other admirals he isn't present at marinefordwar

[weary cliff]

I think he means had he been at Marineford he could have done that. And even then the WB's would have certainly countered

[unreal hearth]

Hmm fujitora had became admiral in a span of a year and that's a feat!

[weary cliff]

More than that. He was directly hired into the position

He and Green Bull were part of a huge recruitment program post MF

[unreal hearth]

Yeah but gorosei and fleet admiral wouldn't have kept him there without seeing any potential

[weary cliff]

What I'm saying is he's even more competent than someone who rose through the ranks during the timeskip

[stark copper]

Fujitora is a fucking tank

I don't think anyone with an iq of above 17 would doubt that

[thick sky]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/o8989d/blackbeards_spy_10th_titanic_captain_ch_1017/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Give this a read once, its not that long too

[weary cliff]

Could be. Gyatsu did make it seem like the 10 were all public knowledge though IIRC

[thick sky]

Did he??

[night jewel]

he did yea

first of all, we dont know for sure that WW was really imprisoned in impel down, so there is the biggest hole in the theory. 2nd, even if WW was in impel down, it was made clear that other prisoners besides the 4 BBP also escaped impel down, so WW doesn't have to be a titanic commander just because of that

[thick sky]

Ah right....

[narrow moat]

Could anyone tell me why the gum gum no MI was that important to the government that they had it escorted but, yea as we all know luffy ate it.

[weak arrow]

Most people are relating the fruit to Joyboy eating it in the past.

[narrow moat]

I wanna know who joyboy is

[weak arrow]

We all do

[pure raven]

I think it was just expensive and for a cp9 agent

[narrow moat]

😅
Yea for sure. Maybe next chapter we will get some more explanation of it.
Also I'm kinda hoping luffy will get fruit awakening

[narrow moat]

Ofc it was meant for an cp9 or cp0 guy but still why is that fruit so important. I wonder why and wanna know why. Because it is not the best fruit in the anime. But it has something special to it😅

[pure raven]

I don’t really think it’s important

[narrow moat]

Hmm

[pure raven]

The editor comment?

[narrow moat]

It's an spoiler btw so idk how to blur it.

But that was the last Manga part I've read. Got me some questions tbh

[pure raven]

SPOILER_ use this to rename ur file

[narrow moat]

Better?

I just deleted it

[pure raven]

No need to spoiler tag here

[narrow moat]

U sure?

[pure raven]

Yes this is a channel for people caught up with the manga

[pure raven]

Spoilers not allowed in this channel until the chapter release

[pure raven]

If they aren’t thats their mistake

[narrow moat]

Ah chapter is released but what is the joy boy if I may ask

[pure raven]

No one knows except oda

[night jewel]

yup no need for tags here, the chapter has been translated in english and is in #announcements already, leaks etc go to #spoilers . Read #old-channel-info and #old-rules for more info

[sacred hawk]

So wait, is the 15-30-60-30-15 theory for the act structure dead now?

Because as of this chapter, Act 3 is now 60 chapters long

[narrow moat]

Rip

[crude crest]

Can we assume that imu has been alive since before the void century?

[nocturne bison]

[weary cliff]

It's a safe assumption, yes

[nocturne bison]

Is it safe to say i think?

[crude crest]

Ok then I guess I got 2 ideas on how that’s possible. One being the most plausible, he had the eternal youth surgery done by someone with the op-op fruit.
Two: I was thinking that one piece could have another species/race. My idea is based off of the fact that when big mom was talking to king, she says that totto land doesn’t have one of his kind. So maybe there’s another race that has a super long lifespan?

Sorry if someone has already said that, just wanted to share my idea

[weary cliff]

It's almost certainly the Ope Ope. The reason it was even brought up in Dressrosa wasn't because Law is going to use the surgery, but to justify an immortal character that already exists. And Imu is far any away the most likely. Maybe even the Gorosei

[narrow moat]

What if luffy fruit is connected to joy boy by unlocking the hidden vault that the celestial dragons could not open.

And maybe that's why the government tent to guard it

[crude crest]

Yeah that’s valid. I was thinking there had to be a reason for them introducing it right before they teased imu but the idea of a new race from wano also made me curious

[normal plume]

I'm beginning to think luffy eating the gomu gomu no mi was purposeful by Shanks, just like getting his arm chopped off by that sea King

planting all the right seeds to see his growth through

he knows luffy is a glutton, and making him mad and leaving the fruit laying around there. Well it's not too great a stretch, we know he is a good actor

[low escarp]

The Gomu Gomu no Mi is the ultimate fruit.

[rapid oar]

was shanks going to sell the fruit

[rugged harbor]

wouldnt they have used it instantly then? and had someone trusted called in to where they guarded the fruit and had them eat it? instead of risking like that?

[thick sky]

👀

[sacred hawk]

What if it's just that a certain property of the fruit was needed to reach Laugh Tale (maybe to reach the last road poneglyph or something), and that's why Shanks tried to take the Gum Gum fruit. However, since Luffy ended up eating it, Shanks is trying to use Luffy to open the path the One Piece.

[thick sky]

[sacred hawk]

And the reason Shanks is trying to keep the seas stable is to make sure nobody can reach Laugh Tale before Luffy serves his purpose. This would also explain why he gets so excited to see Luffy's progress in the news.

[thick sky]

if that was the reason, shanks wouldnt' leave it lying there.

[rugged harbor]

thats not possible bc roger got to laugh tale without having someone with the gum gum on his crew

and dont say roger had the gum gum bc if i hear that again imma kermit

[sand sail]

Shanks hasn't really been trying to keep the sea stable

[rugged harbor]

he just tries to avoid unecessary conflicts that would affect him negatively so yeah i agree

[sacred hawk]

There are things that have changed since Roger reached Laugh Tale. For example, the road poneglyph that used to be on FIshman Island is now somewhere else, and maybe the fruit is necessary to reach it. When I say the gum gum fruit is necessary, I mean something like that, where one of the requirements indirectly requires the fruit

[sand sail]

He doesn't even really try to avoid conflicts

[pure raven]

sadly Who's who has pink hair so doesn't match

[rugged harbor]

and how would the gum gum be necessary to reach a poneglyph

that just doesnt make sense at all , oda would not make something like that

reaching laugh tale is supposed to be accessible to everyone but only the greatest pirate can achieve it , not gatekept by being the only person on the planet with that specific fruit

[sacred hawk]

He has done a few things. He tried to get Whitebeard to call off Ace, knowing that their fight would result in some kind of gamechanger . He also stopped Kaido from interfering in Marineford.

[sand sail]

But he did nothing to stop the war or Blackbeard's rise, and the seas have been completely destabilized for years now

[rugged harbor]

those both directly affect shanks by changing the power balance of the world and potentially risking his own position

if the yonko system falls , so does shanks

[sand sail]

It can't fall, there's nothing to collapse

[sacred hawk]

Since it's been removed from FMI, it might have been hidden in a place that only a rubberman can enter.

[sacred hawk]

Shanks was the one who stopped the war

[pastel prairie]

There is no official color scheme for that agent, toei had to guess

[sand sail]

That's also not how it works, they don't have some foundation to sit on, the Emperors define themselves. If the other 3 fall, it has no effect on Shanks's standing

[sand sail]

No, Shanks stopped the war from continuing needlessly

He didn't stop the war in general. The marines won the war, he stopped a slaughter

[pure raven]

but still not really match and his skin is different color from Who's who as well

[sacred hawk]

He was probably just late because of his fight with Kaido

[pastel prairie]

Like I said, there is no color scheme, toei had to guess. Toei had no information on the agent at all in terms of color scheme

[sacred hawk]

Getting to Marineford from the new world would probably take a non-trivial amount of time as it is

[pure raven]

thus him and Who's Who are not the same

[sand sail]

Apparently he arrived earlier than even expected, considering that fight as well

But he still hasn't stopped anything. Literally the entire scenario that he wanted to prevent played out exactly the way he didn't want it to, and he's done nothing and did nothing to stop it

It also hasn't effected him at all lol

[pastel prairie]

Toei color schemes are not official. Orochi originally had black hair and wore primarily purple. Zoro and Luffy's raid outfits are still changing. If a color scheme is not available, toei will guess until one is released. That agent never had an official color scheme, Toei had to guess. The anime color scheme cannot be taken as fact due to them guessing

[pure raven]

I UNDERSTAND THAT THE AGENT COLOR IS BY TOEI

I AM USING WHO'S WHO COLOR FROM THE MANGA TO COMPARE!!!!!

[sand sail]

Chill on the caps

[ancient vault]

Unless he met kaido in paradise he sailed to the new world and back to MF within one day

[sand sail]

Yeh, Marineford is right next to the New World

[ancient vault]

still one day is way to short

[sand sail]

He was clearly just on his way there lol

They didn't say he left that same day

[fathom matrix]

Plus, Oda and the anime can change their minds on colours later on. Cause wasn't Rayleigh depicted as blonde at one point, but then later changed to a peachy brown? And for some reason they decided to change robin's skin colour from tanned to light later on.

[pure raven]

sorry

but as of right now the unnamed agent is now a irrelevant character so his toei color is the only one being official

[sacred hawk]

I think we're kind of going on a tangent. My point is shank's goal is to keep the seas stable. Even if he failed to stop the war at marineford, the fact that showed up to stop the war at all when the outcome doesn't affect him at all at least indicates his intent.

It would also explain why the gorosei are rubbing hands with him, since they don't seem to want the final war to happen either.

[sand sail]

If Shanks's goal were to keep the seas stable, he'd have done literally anything to stop what happened besides just talking to Whitebeard

[sacred hawk]

Like what?

[sand sail]

My point is, he's neither intervened in a meaningful way nor attempted to prevent or stabilize the oceans in the last two years

Like taking Blackbeard down himself?

Like stopping the actual war from happening, or helping Whitebeard win it?

Like stopping the Worst Generation from laying their plans?

Literally anything dude, he stopped nothing at all and has seemingly placed no meaningful influence in the world since

[sacred hawk]

Firstly, nothing needed to be stabilized during the timeskip. According to Law, most of the big names spend the timeskip just building up power instead of taking direct action

[sand sail]

But, it did. We even have the Gorosei remarking about how things haven't been stable, and the entire label of the Worst Generation was specifically about how they've been messing the New World up since the Summit War

In fact, Blackbeard's entire meteoric rise was during the time skip, how do you figure nothing needed to be stabilized?

[sacred hawk]

Like taking Blackbeard down himself?
Even Shanks was cautious of Blackbeard. Otherwise, he wouldn't have talked to Whitebeard about it

Like stopping the actual war from happening, or helping Whitebeard win it?
Again, the fact that he showed up means he was already planning to get invlved. He just got delayed since he encountered Kaido

Like stopping the Worst Generation from laying their plans?
My point was that he was keeping it stable until Luffy showed up. If the worst generation is finally beginning to take action against the Yonko, then Shanks doesn't need to do anything else.

[sand sail]

Shanks was cautious of Blackbeard, but Blackbeard was well within the sphere of his control long before Marineford happened, and before he became an Emperor. He showed up to the war and not only didn't stop it, he made no move to stop Blackbeard himself. And the Worst Generation were making their moves during the time skip, that's why they were nicknamed that, they've been making things unstable for years now.

[sacred hawk]

Because of Law's speech about how nobody important actually made any big moved during those two years

[sand sail]

Yeah, lots of people have made big moves since then and things have been messed up for ages

[sacred hawk]

Sure, but nothing to the point of causing a final war to begin happened.

[sand sail]

Yeah, Shanks has stopped none of that at all though, and has given no indication that he's trying to avoid it or anything of the sort.

Why do you keep pressing that it's his goal somehow?

[sacred hawk]

Also, if Shanks didn't intend to anything about the war, why did he even show up? Nothing would have really changed had he stayed out of it

[sand sail]

To stop it from getting out of hand? Who knows? He certainly didn't intend to help Whitebeard fight

[sacred hawk]

Because it's a common thread between any of the direct actions he takes in the main story. Plus, he seems to know more about Luffy's role in all this than he lets on

[scenic thicket]

shanks intercepted kaido frm stopping whitebeard so he let tht war happen

[sand sail]

It's not a common thread in anything he's done at all so far, it's just an element we assume will be part of it in the end

Until he interferes in someone getting to Laugh Tale, nothing he does has anything to do with any final war that hasn't even been set in stone to happen in-universe yet

We know it's coming, that doesn't mean he's predicting and setting up for it yet

Or has been for the last two years

[sacred hawk]

Sorry, I mean the common thread between his actions is to just to stop major conflicts from breaking out. I'm just speculating the rest from that

[scenic thicket]

buggy is key in the end of this no joke. otherwise he wouldn’t have his face tattoo

[scenic thicket]

shanks let the war happen in the first place

[sacred hawk]

When your options are "Let Kaido get involved" or "Stay behind a few hours to make him leave", it's not exactly letting the war happen. It's just preventing the war from getting worse.

[sand sail]

But then, he's never actually stopped any conflicts, he's just contained them. He's not working to keep anything stable, he's just helped make it not as bad as it could be

Like he didn't stop the biggest war the world had seen since Roger's days, he just stopped Kaido from stepping in too

[scenic thicket]

kaidos was a federal informant tht was sent by the WG to stop him

[sand sail]

This is a no meme zone

Stop

[scenic thicket]

it’s not

there’s a reason CP0 is in wano rn, and a reason they’re cutting ties with the warlords. kaido said it himself by saying the WG is announcing they can combat them

but he said “us” specifically if i remember correctly. it has precedent in the real world where secret agency’s will use criminals to “launder” their own criminal activities. see the cia with cocaine trafficking and death squads

CP0 wouldn’t just b chilling watching over the present battle if they didn’t think the outcome wouldnt affect the stability of the world.

but just being tht close to kaidos base shows they have some type of familiarity or even back room dealings

[sacred hawk]

Just because he failed to stop the war from happening doesn't mean he wasn't trying to. That's like saying that since Whitebeard and Luffy never actually stopped Akainu from killing, Whitebeard wasn't trying to save him.

[scenic thicket]

also me saying buggy’s face tat is of the end goal on the grand line isn’t a meme either. there’s a reason he didn’t go to laughtale w/ rodger due to some random sickness

[sacred hawk]

Or that because the Straw Hats all got defeated on Sabaody, that Rayleigh let it happen

[scenic thicket]

IIRC there are two really prominent “X”s which is important bc pirates mark their treasure w/ them. one is reverse mountain and the other is right on buggy’s face

[scenic thicket]

imo the florian triangle is hosting the one piece and laughttale. it was significant tht we saw rodger go to skypia during the wano flashback before heading to laughttale

[worthy plover]

damn yall are going crazy w/ the theories!

[junior cape]

I don't think so. If that were the case, why are the Road Poneglyphs scattered around the New World specifically?

[scenic thicket]

ard true butttt i still think it’s placement after reverse mountain and before mariejois(the prophecy) is. interesting

[sacred hawk]

You know what would be cool? If Laugh Tale was somewhere in Edd War

[lapis sigil]

Okay i may be reaching here but on chapter 921, Page 9.

Rob Lucci mentions a certain idiot would "love" to hear about Luffy being a strong, worthy captain. And since Who's Who was in the CP9, does that mean this was another foreshadowing or am I just hella reaching?

[sacred hawk]

The sea where Shiki and Roger fought in episode 0

[scenic thicket]

buggy’s face tat is of the grand line and i will die by this

[sacred hawk]

I think he just means Spandam

[lapis sigil]

I don't think Rob Lucci really cares much about Spandam. True an idiot fits him but he could be referring that who's who failed to protect the fruit

[scenic thicket]

i’m with u

[jovial rivet]

This spoilers for 1017?

[dusky acorn]

Since he doesn't explicitly mention a name, it's not definitively impossible to be Who's Who

[weak arrow]

1017 is allowed to be discussed yes,

[dusky acorn]

I think Spandam much better fits the context of the dialogue though

[grizzled fog]

Rob lucci is a whole ten years younger than who’s who, it’s possible since lucci was active as a gov agent since a very young age, but I’d say that’s unlikely

[jovial rivet]

So it is 1017?

[lapis sigil]

Yes

[weak arrow]

they compared him to rob lucci vemqi

[weak arrow]

this conversation is based off what happened in 1017 lol

[jovial rivet]

Nooooooooo

[dusky acorn]

The context was Luffy saying he wouldn't take his eyes of Lucci, and that he as the captain of his crew is staying back to take care of the strongest foe of CP9 so he doesn't go killing all his subordinates

[lapis sigil]

That's true

[jovial rivet]

I wait for official

[dusky acorn]

We;re all supposed to be caught up here, you're free to leave this channel if you aren't

[weak arrow]

Stay out of manga channels until it's officially released.

[lapis sigil]

Yes, we might mention a few other topics. It's better to join this channel when you're caught up or you could search for a specific theory im not telling you to leave

Oda's foreshadowing game crazy.

[zinc iris]

it could be just one of the hooks Oda put there so that he could call back if he came up with the right idea

not all call-backs are planned, sometimes it was just opportune to go back there by improvisation

and oda perfected the idea of just throwing call-forwards there to make it easier for himself

like sanji's family being like the germa that we know is likely something that he came up with pretty "recently" but he deliberately alluded to his family before because he wanted to eventually get there (despite leaving it unspecified until wci)

[lapis sigil]

Yesssir definitely a thing Oda would do

[scenic thicket]

tell me the red lines aren’t meant to represent the calm belt. there’s only two other scenarios where things have been marked with an “X”, reverse mountain and the friendship albasta thing w/ vivi. this is important because pirates mark their treasure with an X

[zinc iris]

it's still remarkable that oda is capable to make a consistent story that also goes back hundreds of chapters

[patent sail]

The Who’s Who theory being the 10th captain of BB pirates is pretty convincing imo.

[scenic thicket]

link it

[patent sail]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/o8989d/blackbeards_spy_10th_titanic_captain_ch_1017/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

[lapis sigil]

There's still a lot of things we haven't seen yet and it always shocks me how he always sets it all up at the right moment

[night jewel]

oh god that theory with so many holes reached 3k votes already lol

crazy

[patent sail]

Enlighten us

[night jewel]

firstly, the chapter doesn't even have any mention of impel down at all, WW just talks about a prison, that is really all

[weak arrow]

Multiple people escaped level 6. Not just BB pirates.
He was not seen among the BB pirates during their escape.

I do think he was in Impel Down though. Just that this BB spy thing is dumb

[night jewel]

2nd, lets just say he was in impel down for a minute, even then the titanic commanders arent the only ones who escaped impel down, this was clearly stated by oda

in hte manga

so taking that as "proof" he is bb's spy is pretty weird to say the least

[night jewel]

possibly, but its not like something that has been confirmed. And WW's tone implies the opposite

[grizzled fog]

who's who being an ex cp9 agent that joined the beast pirates but is secretly BB's spy is too much lol

[night jewel]

panels, for those who want them

[weak arrow]

I mean, a CP9 member being a spy is not unreasonable.

But we know who left with BB from Impel Down

Who's Who was not one of them.

[ancient vault]

but this is all a scheme by the big mastermind Im and he secretely still works for the WG

[dusky acorn]

The one thing I like about Who's Who being affiliated with Blackbeard is it goes along with a possible long-term motive he could have of wanting to get back at the Red Hairs

He can accomplish that just by joining any Yonko that isn't Shanks though, that's why he's with Kaido right now

Being an undercover spy and commander for the same Yonko crew are contradictory to each other, don't see how you could be both

Every commander we've seen is reknowned for their position, it's meant to be a wholely public thing

If WW was a spy, Gats should have said BB only has 9 captains, then the 10th captain reveal would be known to the world only after Who's Who betrays Kaido and fights alongside BB in a later conlfict or what have you

[scenic thicket]

plus bc i believe kaido is a fed who dealt w/ the WG . Who’s Who probably knew kaido would be accepting of him

[neon shoal]

Are black maria and yamato half sisters?

[pure raven]

no

[outer locust]

Don’t think so

[lunar shell]

Are BlackMaria's horn real ?

I believe Ulti's horn arent

[zinc iris]

since the mother theory was shot down it's the next best thing but there still are some issues
like Kaido not regarding Black Maria as his child at all despite not having a contentious relationship with her at all
also stands as any Flying 6 instead of being a special member like Yamato

[zinc iris]

I think they are because they do taper to the skin of her forehead

[lunar shell]

Alright

Hey Entreyhazard, do you think like me that the gomu gomu was Joy boy's fruit ?

[zinc iris]

I hope not

it would be so unnecessary and manifest destiny like that do not mesh at all with an underdog story

[lunar shell]

Ok. While I disagree cuz I do like those kinds of destiny things, I believe that its the only point of the story of who's who

[pure raven]

Hmm....

[lunar shell]

To focus on this fruit

[pure raven]

Do you think some of the devil fruits may actually be quite special? Someone pointed out something quite intriguing to me where like
the Gomu-Gomu fruit has to be special because Who-Who got a lot of jail time for just losing that specific fruit
While
Lucchi lost Nico Robin and he's completely fine

[lunar shell]

The only way the story of who's who is interesting, is to show that Im team want this fruit a lot. Why ? This fruit isnt interesting. I believe the point of this story is to make us ask this question

The answer, I believe ; Im doesnt want this fruit to return to his master, cuz she knew it was to Joy boy

[weary cliff]

Lucci and the others were wanted post Enies Lobby. We don't what their punishment would have been

[zinc iris]

the point of that story could have just been to give WW a personal grudge against Luffy's crew

[lunar shell]

What would be the point ?

They would be fighting each other regardless

[weary cliff]

Right. This was done to build on the gomu gomu's significance one way or the other

[zinc iris]

it should not be a special power

[lunar shell]

I agree, this fruit isnt really powerfull

[last halo]

Or maybe it was done to develop Shanks

[neon shoal]

Wait i dont get it. If the gomu gomu no fruit was important to world government then shouldnt luffy first 30,000,000 bounty be much higher?

[zinc iris]

I don't want this from the story that had the brilliance of having the son of Gold Roger be someone else that even died mid-story

[weary cliff]

I would say the entirety of One Piece begs to differ. Its not overtly the most useful thing, but it's been shown to have a lot of potential

[zinc iris]

this should be the case for any fruit on principle

[lunar shell]

Not really

[zinc iris]

it is a testament to luffy's resourcefulness that he's using it to this extent

[lunar shell]

Im is the one knowing why is fruit is a problem. And Im can wipe anyone is the world, she dont care about the bounty of someone

[pure raven]

he was unknown at the time so the WG didnt know he had the devil fruit or with the knowledge that he had one

[inland imp]

I think shanks stole The fruit that blue jam had and blue jam took the fruit for joy boy from joy boy who’s who’s in impel down that’s my theory

Whitebeard

[weary cliff]

I think it speaks equally to the qualities of the fruit. Luffy isnt the smartest guy around, but we haven't seen anything like the gears from other fruits. The gomu gomu probably contributes to Luffy's accelerated growth in terms of strength

[inland imp]

NO

[lunar shell]

Luffy is actually a genius when it comes to battle, he was born for this

[zinc iris]

but in the context the gears are not a special power of the df, is luffy abusing of the consequence of being rubber

[pure raven]

it does require some creativity and intellect like Luffy discover how to increase his speed and strength, inflate his bone and muscle tissue

[inland imp]

NOOO

[pure raven]

yes

[inland imp]

White beard

[pure raven]

you are just spouting nonsense now

[inland imp]

If you search it up whitae bears stronger then luffy so your theory is FALSE

[lunar shell]

I believe the fruit have a will on their own, like swords or poneglyphes, and that Oda will later explain how its actually the fruit that chose his master, therefore explaining how everyone has their perfect fruit

[weary cliff]

But they show there is more to being rubber than just having stretchy arms. And we haven't seen the extent of this, which could be major. Especially given it's a power belonging to a shonen protagonist

[pure raven]

i didnt say anything about Luffy fruit being stronger

[lunar shell]

Luffy being Joy boy reincarnation, the fruit wanted to join him, so all this convenently happened

Just like what happenned to teach

[pure raven]

maybe?

[lunar shell]

Yes this is following the sentence above, starting by : I believe

[weary cliff]

As long as we dont take this to the level of Luffy having conversations with the spirit of the fruit in some metaphysical landscape that exists inside his head..

[pure raven]

Poneglyphes was etched by someone so those didnt have will on their own

and if Devil fruit does have a will they wouldnt get eaten by random people instead

[lunar shell]

They have a voice

Therefore, a will

[pure raven]

poneglyph didn't have voice as it was written by someone

[lunar shell]

And yet, Roger find some poneglyphe on his own cuz he say they have " such a strong voice "

This voice also told him what was written

[pure raven]

nah he had Oden to translate them

[lunar shell]

Sure for some of them

[weak arrow]

Roger can somewhat tell what they say, even without Oden. And what gotama says is true

[pure raven]

where exactly bc i have a hard time believing

[weary cliff]

Oden was needed for the specificity required to understand the road poneglyphs, no?

[weak arrow]

Skypeia he knew the poneglyph knew of where a power was

[pure raven]

he just discovered it and he needed Oden to translate it for him

[pure raven]

okay i read his voice of all things, Roger could sense them by hearing their shouts but couldnt read them

[weak arrow]

He can’t read them but he gains some understanding of them through the strong voices

[lunar shell]

He couldnt read them, but like I said, the voice spoke to him and told him what was written

[pure raven]

no he didnt

[weak arrow]

“It’s a story of great power, isn’t it”

[weary cliff]

Did you see the panels right there?

[weak arrow]

And Oden basically is like, yes, you’re right

[slate zodiac]

What y’all think is special about Luffy fruit?

[lunar shell]

Rayleigh also confirm this when Robin talk to him, he said : we couldnt read it we arent as smart as ohara people, but Roger had the ability to hear the voice of all things.

In any case Adumb show you that poneglyphe indeed have voice, so it's a fact you need to accept^^

[weary cliff]

The forerunners are belonging to OG Joyboy or needed to fulfill something specific the WG WG wanted. Or they just wanted to give it to a slave on Mariejois

[pure raven]

OKAY I UNDERSTAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DONT NEED TO GANG ON ME!!!!

[versed hamlet]

why do u use so many caps

[pure raven]

The “voice of all things”

Did Roger talk to zunisha

[weak arrow]

No

[pure raven]

i didnt read the article properly okay???

[weak arrow]

Roger and Oden could hear Zunisha but they could not converse with them

[lunar shell]

Did I ever said he read it ?

[pure raven]

no

[lunar shell]

I said the voice told him directly what was written

[pure raven]

well at least he could understand

SO STOP RIDICULE ME

[weary cliff]

I wonder if Zunisha can hear when people like Luffy try to talk back and she just doesnt care, or if just being able to project your voice is a special power. Something that Shirahoshi, Momo, and now Luffy have been shown to be able to do

[weary cliff]

No one is ridiculing, they're just pointing to the source material instead of the wiki

[lunar shell]

Humm

[pure raven]

even so the source material could be vague on some details

[lunar shell]

I believe he does indeed hear everything

I'd say the voice of all thing is like a deep obversation haki thing

The king of sea seems to hear when Roger say he hear them

I doubt Roger is speaking in " voice of all thing " mode in that instance, Same for Momo with Zunesha

[pure raven]

he can only understand the significance behind the voice, not the thing written on it so he need Oden to read and decipher them

[weary cliff]

I think so too. It's just all confusing ever since Luffy made his psychic declaration lol We'll see how it shakes out

[lunar shell]

Oh ok I see, well my point was just to say the poneglyphe have a voice, and correct you when you disagree, but ok thanks for the update

[lunar shell]

Despite the fact that the voice call " momo " was this really Luffy ?

[pure raven]

that's what i mean to say

[lunar shell]

Or was it his will ? He was knocked out. And like the first time he was knocked out againt kaido, his release conqueror haki, wich again, could have used by he " will "

[weary cliff]

It must be. The heart pirates heard him too

[lunar shell]

The will of someone seem to keep being activated even if one is knocked out...or dead.

[lunar shell]

Hum no I remember that with the official translation, they dont hear him they just see him

I'll check

[weary cliff]

I'll he happy to see, because honestly that's the most confusing part

[lunar shell]

You are right, they hear him lol.

[weary cliff]

But I think you're right, this all feels tied to strong voices

[lunar shell]

That's so weird, those dude on Law's crew all have voice of all things ?^^

[pure raven]

no

[lunar shell]

Maybe...Law's crew can hear Momo using a den den Mushi ...

[pure raven]

Luffy voice was somehow loud enough for them to hear as it was intended for only Momo to hear

[lunar shell]

They hear that with Momo Luffy just said he was going to win, and now they found him under water

[lunar shell]

Only someone able to hear the voice of all things should be able to hear him

[pure raven]

maybe the residue? like the feeling?

[weary cliff]

I think they're hearing something coming from him. Even on the page he looks like a beacon emitting something

[pure raven]

actually Momo was using the matyr to broadcast throughout the island only

[lunar shell]

Far fetched..

[lunar shell]

Yes but on the island there are den den Mushi that can be linked to Law's crew

I'm open to better explanation ^^

[pure raven]

but they didn't know Luffy was underwater as the panel point out that they were surprised to see him there after they discovered him

if they were get noticed through the den den mushi they must have known by now

[lunar shell]

What I say is : They here that Luffy say x things.
Then they find someone and understand its Luffy
They ask themself how he could have said those thing if he was under water

[weary cliff]

They're especially surprised to hear Luffys voice even though he's underwater. That implies they hear him directly and not some broadcast

[lunar shell]

Why ? They can be surprised that someone under water can tell momo things

Again, I'm open to better suggestions

[pure raven]

but you said that they could have known through den den mushi by Law to record Momo broadcast

[lunar shell]

That's kinda weird, well the whole thing is, Oda needed to put the submarine above water and have the crew check if someone from the alliance fall from Onigashima

[pure raven]

they were underwater the whole time i believe

[lunar shell]

And be the of it. Not only now its weird that the submarine coincidently find Luffy, but also its ambiguous this " we hear his voice "

[lunar shell]

Yes, but inside the submarine, they have a den den muchi

[weary cliff]

I think Luffy is using Conqueror's in some way to project his voice. Momo with VOAT can pick it up way up there. The heart pirates due to proximity can hear him, and anyone could if they had haki and were close enough. But that's shaky

[pure raven]

then they could have known that Luffy was alive and gone to fetch him

but the panels showed them being surprised to find Luffy sinking

[lunar shell]

No its Irrelevent.

[lunar shell]

I believe the same thing.

[weary cliff]

No one knew Luffy had fallen until Bao Hung said so. Law would be the only one to radio the polar tang and I'm pretty sure we saw him not doing that

[lunar shell]

I aborded this idea cuz I thought the crew actually didnt hear the thing, but if its about conqueror, the submarine could have be indeed in the range of it ( of the conqueror range )

[pure raven]

EXACTLY

[weary cliff]

The heart pirates probably keyed in on him since they were following Onigashima and they heard him

[lunar shell]

Again, the first time Luffy was knocked out, he used conqueror unconsciously

[weary cliff]

Right, I think it's all tied

[lunar shell]

The same thing could have happened, this time using it to communicate

[lunar shell]

If Oda put a little something about " Law's crew : Luffy, how could you talk underwater ? Luffy : What ? "

It confirm that is was his will speaking

You guessed it, Joy boy's will

[weary cliff]

I'd buy it

[neon shoal]

Wait where are rest of numbers? War seems close to end and havent see last five members of number.

[pure raven]

so theoretically they would be 2, 3, 6, 9 and 1 (or ace)

[neon shoal]

I guess so

Also where is rest pf big mom pirates that also fell from waterfall

[lunar shell]

I believe it is said they'd need two week to come back ( which is weird )

[neon shoal]

Wait where did one piece say big mom pirate need two week to cone back?

[lunar shell]

In my memories

[neon shoal]

But did the manga say or something?

[lunar shell]

That's what those memories of mines tell me. I'm not sure.

[rugged harbor]

theories based on memories , thats a new one i didnt hear the past 2 days

[lunar shell]

What theorie ?

I was just commentating something. If its not two week and I'm wrong, plz, feel free to correct me

[rugged harbor]

its theories section , safe to assume theres a theory no?

[neon shoal]

Oh alright
it just been bothering me why rest of big mom pirates didn’t participate in the war against straw hat purates and samurais

[lunar shell]

Nope 😉

[rugged harbor]

cause its not that easy to reach wano

big mom herself almost died , so did luffy lmao

assuming big mom's fleet can just show up isnt gonna work there

[neon shoal]

But didnt big mom pirates reach wano using big koi fish? But king and marco keep pushing big mom ship down the waterfall

[rugged harbor]

even if they manage to get up , getting a whole fleet up in the sky to onigashima isnt simple either

[neon shoal]

Oh that is true
I forgot about that

[rugged harbor]

yeah they can be just waiting somewhere (probably flower capital)

thats assuming they made it up cause we never saw them do it xD

[lapis fox]

OkY so what we thinking about end of 1017 ???!

[dusky acorn]

Hey, just wanted to share a recent new thought I had in regards to my Kid heritage theory.
How do you guys feel about Killer having possibly been a former slave? The reasons I think this are:

• Kid has shown investment in the act of slavery being inhumane, and a main reason as to why nobles are so horrible.

• It goes along with Killer's lack of surname, and how he was likely always an orphan.

• All of Killer's hobbies are selfless ones that could be seen useful as a slave (playing music and cooking).

• Has a burn scar on his left arm, could have possibly been from punishment/torture.

• Killer has already been put into the position of a pawn for Orochi. Forced obedience could be made into a recurring thing he's faced in his life.

• As Kamazo, he showcased unnecessarily extreme amounts of loyalty. (He even went as far as presumably calling him "Orochi-Sama", and got mad at Hiyori when she didn't say the honorific, even though they were alone). Him abiding to this kind of behaviour to such a massive degree could stem from having had it ingrained at one point in his past.

[dusky acorn]

It's probably going to turn out to be a special fruit

Not in power necessarily but past usage

[slate zodiac]

Who do you think was the predecessor?

[dusky acorn]

I want to say Joyboy, but I don't think it fits with how the fruit was logged in the Devil Fruit Encyclopedia.

Just like how Imu is keeping the big straw hat a secret, there's no reason why the WG would allow the gum gum fruit to be public knowledge if its significance stems from the Void Century

And Oda did confirm its in the book through an SBS, which is why Roo/Shanks could name it/knew what it does

[slate zodiac]

I heard people saying it was rocks since kaido mocked Luffy gum gum ability and then said luffy couldn’t be joyboy either

[grizzled fog]

Highly doubt rocks had it. If someone within the last couple decades had it im sure someone would’ve recognized it and pointed that out by now

[pure raven]

any good theories?

[sturdy hawk]

Actually thematically it would make sense for it to be rocks

But so does it being joyboy's so

[pure raven]

I disagree; it felt too major if it wasn't mentioned before by literally anybody

wait are you saying rocks had gum gum

[sturdy hawk]

90% of the world doesnt even know who rocks is

[pure raven]

i think garp would say something if it was rocks' fruit tbh

or whitebeard

[pure raven]

You think 90% of the world doesn't know Rocks.
The man that made Garp the hero that he is.
The one that marines hear about constantly about why Garp is a hero because he beat up Rocks.

[sturdy hawk]

Yes but nobody knew who rocks is

[pure raven]

the man with a crew who could effectively shake up the world.

nobody actually knows who rocks is tho

except a few, it's a navy secret

[sturdy hawk]

Yes

[rugged harbor]

@pure raven they literally had to explain who he was to the marines bc no one knew who he was so yes , no one knows he exists lmao

[queen arrow]

Big Mom and Kaido know Rocks, and both have seem Luffy's devil fruit power by now and didn't make a connection

[rugged harbor]

also true , kaido went as far as to make fun of it

which is something that makes it almost impossible for the gomu gomu to be xebec's

[weary cliff]

Or BM, Kaido, Raleigh, Sengoku, etc. Someone would have at least reacted

[pure raven]

EXACTLY yeah

[rugged harbor]

i mean why does it have to be somoene important that had it before luffy
it could just be that it has a special thing like law's perennial youth operation that luffy doesnt know about yet or just something as simple as "vegapunk needed it for important research"

only important person that makes sense for him to have it before luffy is joyboy only bc that whole character is a big question mark and even then what does that even add to the story

but if its gonna be a person , i dont think its gonna be anyone else other than joyboy

[weary cliff]

I guess if it does have a special power, then whoever showcased that power would have been important for being able to do so. But I understand what you mean, it doesnt mean that has to be a character we're already familiar with

[rugged harbor]

it doesnt have to be a character in the first place is what i mean xD

could be important for research or for an unknown power , not bc of a previous owner

[weary cliff]

If the fruit has a power and no one has used it, how does anyone know it exists

[rugged harbor]

i mean true but still , doesnt have to be someone of importance since using those kinds of powers usually ends up killing the user

just like the ope ope no mi and its perennial youth operation

[lunar shell]

How else do you explain this whole thing then

[weary cliff]

I understand. So most likely the fruit has done something incredible or someone incredible used to have the fruit

[lunar shell]

Yes

[rugged harbor]

exactly

people only talked about the "someone incredible had it" part but ignore the fact that it can be the other part too

[dusky acorn]

It's hard to say, either stance I take on this feels unstable.

Option 1. If the past user is from the void century, that fits with how no one has been able to comment about it being a notable fruit, but then why would it be a documented fruit?

Option 2. If it's someone of significance after the void century, then the WG can reasonably allow it to be a documented fruit, but then why has no one commented on the past user of it?

Barrels commented on the past user of the Ope-Ope no mi for example, so why hasn't anyone done the same for Luffy after 1k chapters?

Then I just circle back to either the past user being entirely inconsequential, and it's actually due to some latent power of the fruit itself that makes it special.

[rugged harbor]

Yeah it's just a big ol Kentucky fuckhouse

[neat inlet]

do you think zoro's CoC might be a false red herring? maybe it belongs to Enma, and hence why there might still be another power-up for zoro once he goes again against kaido?

[pure raven]

My personal stance is that it was a fruit that was fucked with somehow by Vegapunk or someone in the world government before being given to Whowho for transport where he was fucked by Shanks and the fruit was stolen

[rugged harbor]

Only thing I can think of is maybe it's bc barrels commented on the ope ope no mi bc it happened recently that the power was used , maybe the gomu gomu secret power was used in the void century and that's why no one knows about it

[pure raven]

I don't think it's necessarily symbolic but rather a literal thing was done to it that caused it to be different somehow

or rather for it to have potential additional properties that are currently unknown

[dusky acorn]

Oh, that's interesting. I wonder who it would have gone to in that scenario, or what it could imply about the powers if its a fruit that's been modified by VP

[weary cliff]

To address option 1, it's simply possible in the past 800 years its fallen in and out of WG control, allowing it to be catalogued without anyone knowing it's full significance.

Option 2, the user could simply have been covered up. Even Rocks is barely remembered after 40 years because his actions werent widely publicized. The same could be true of a notorious former rubber man

[pure raven]

I mean we know through Momo and punk hazard that experimentation on devil fruits has been happening for quite some time

[rugged harbor]

Man y'all making my brain overheat I go sleep

[neat inlet]

gomu gomu no mi seem to me to be just the perfect counter-balance for the main troublesome fruits in the one piece realm- it's immune to electricity, it can counter a earthquake attack, bullets can't harm the user, and it has the potential to gigantify the user.

[pure raven]

but what the effects could/would be are unknown and it makes sense that they'd experiment on some fruit since they have access to a good amount of them and I imagine they thought the Gum gum fruit was on the lower end of OP af fruits so the consequence of messing with it was presumably slim

[dusky acorn]

Adding a third, or even more users who had it overtime to make it feasibly catalogued is possible, I guess I'm just trying to approach this in the least amount of steps possible

[weary cliff]

Gotcha. I just assume fruits have had dozens of users, I guess

[pure raven]

my question really is what does fruit manipulation do for the world government

cause we know they fucked with Kaido and his shit before making the momo failed smile fruit

[dusky acorn]

I suppose we do think we have to think outside the box for this one, I'm not entirely confident it's just going to be a simple answer

[weary cliff]

The WG desires military control. They've stooped to using the Warlord system, but clearly have been developing alternatives for some time

[pure raven]

I mean yes that's been known for awhile

I'd assume DF experimentation and Gigantification are rather new in their long line of attempts to grow stronger.

[weary cliff]

These probably weren't even goals theyd have considered without VP. But yeah, if you have a genius on your payroll, why not go for it. Personally the modified gomu gomu feels the least likely for me, but it's an interesting idea

[arctic adder]

what happened in the newest chapter?

I saw luffy drowning

[weary cliff]

Last chapter he was on board the polar tang

[arctic adder]

He lost to kaido again? Aw man

[weary cliff]

I'd read the last few chapters. They were all pretty good

[tardy dune]

All the recent chapters have been bangers imo

[arctic adder]

I heard zoro fought kaido? what's that about

[tardy dune]

Read the chapters

It's a super badass moment

[weary cliff]

Or at least take it to #manga lol

[lunar shell]

Well I don't get it. Joy boy was one of the one that used the fruit. Maybe 300 years later someone use it too, maybe one that herited from joy'boy's will. And then it was recorded in the book of devils fruit.

I dont see why anyone would comment on Luffy's fruit any more than everyone else in the manga that has a fruit

they never comment on previous owner.

[weary cliff]

I don't think that's anyone's contention because in fact we haven't seen people comment on that

[queen arrow]

people commented on the previous user of certain fruits though, like the Op-Op Fruit, the Flame-Flame and the Quake-Quake as well, because those fruits where from well know people

[scenic thicket]

gomu gomu fruit was last used by aces mom

[queen arrow]

i don't like that that theory is resurfacing

[cosmic gull]

Ey guys question

How old is Whoswho?

[visual merlin]

38

[cosmic gull]

So quick O_O

That means he was 26 when that event passed

[neon shoal]

Does everyone believe im granted eternal youth by the previous op ope fruit user which why ope ope fruit is worth more than 100 millon berries bevause im wants to prevent another person with eternal youth

[cerulean coyote]

It is 5billion

Which is whitebeard bounty

[cosmic gull]

Eternal Life is Brook yohohohohhooh

[visual merlin]

I believe Imu had the surgery, but it's worth 5 bil because of the idea of the surgery not because Imu doesn't want anyone else getting it

[neon shoal]

Shiiiit 5,000,000,000 berries

[cosmic gull]

Yep

Gomu gomu no would be 1 billion I'm sure

[visual merlin]

why's that?

[cerulean coyote]

Why?

[pure raven]

i think the gomu gomu no mi is special because what other paramecia fruit has zoan like features (gears) and if you think about it Katakuris fruit had logia features and is considered a special paramecia. Who knows how op luffy will be once he awakes his df.

[cosmic gull]

Maybe they know secretly his awakening

[dense wing]

Gomu Gomu most likely isn’t special due to its powers

It’s because of its symbolism and significance

Via a previous holder

[cosmic gull]

Hmmm

[cerulean coyote]

The problem is that it is uncertain if all fruits can be awakened

[visual merlin]

This may just be me, but if any previous users of the gomu gomu also coincidentally thought of the exact same ideas as luffy pertaining to the gears

I wouldn't like that at all

[dense wing]

Awakening seems to occur with DF users who have had experience with it for years

I’d assume for now all could awaken

We don’t know yet tho

But if random Impel Down guards can awaken

[cosmic gull]

Theory : Rouge and Ryokugou have the same fruit

[visual merlin]

yea but Eman it'd be more about which fruits have the potential to awaken in the first place

[cerulean coyote]

Its luffy's creativity that gives the fruit its utility

[cosmic gull]

Yeah

[dense wing]

@visual merlin what would be cool is if Joyboy did in fact have the Gomu, we could see in the Laughtale flashback if/how he used it differently than Luffy

Would be a nice touch

[dense wing]

I believe all can awaken

For now

Nothing leads me to believe otherwise

[visual merlin]

all zoans are the same at the end of the day, besides maybe the mythical ones, so they should all have that potential, but paramecias are described as everything thats not zoan or logia, so I could definitely see some paramecias not being capable

[cosmic gull]

Chopper awakening how would be ?????????

[visual merlin]

Doffy does say its rare and that only some can, unless you had a different interpretation of that

[cerulean coyote]

If original joyboy was a giant (which is possible) then its might have some of luffy abilities (except g2 speed)

[grizzled fog]

Same as other zoan awakenings

[cosmic gull]

Total human Chopper mode ?

[dense wing]

I forgot about the only some can line

[grizzled fog]

Boosted recovery speed, a general physical stat boost I guess

[dense wing]

I need to find the panel

[visual merlin]

yea if its a different use of it that's also creative that's cool, though idk what that'd be

[cerulean coyote]

Impossible. You cant awake logia

[cosmic gull]

Chopper being human in One Piece hmm

[visual merlin]

here you go

785 for future reference

[cerulean coyote]

You would turn the world into an element which is insane

If ener/sakazuki awakes it's the end

[dense wing]

It might just be rare because only some users actually reach the full potential of their fruits

IE a combatant who fights w their fruit often for years vs someone who ate a fruit years ago but only uses it once in a while

But I see both sides

The answer is we don’t know

[cosmic gull]

Luffy use his environment to bounce himself to get better hits

[visual merlin]

The way he says "its very rare, but some powers can awaken" implies to me its more about the fruit itself

[cosmic gull]

Best Awakening

[cerulean coyote]

How many awakened people we found?

[visual merlin]

now, I guess he could be misinformed, maybe only certain fruits have been awakened that he's aware of

[dense wing]

3 impel down guards, Doffy, Kata

[cosmic gull]

Crocodile

[visual merlin]

but he does seem to imply that only some fruits have that potential in the first place

[dense wing]

Croc isn’t confirmed awakened

[dense wing]

Fair

[visual merlin]

also this is slightly off topic but just since I noticed

[cerulean coyote]

Then my theory is all zoan, some paramecia and Bb fruit as logia

[cosmic gull]

Stated that fully mastered his fruit

[visual merlin]

here he seems to be talking paramecias specifically

[dense wing]

Yeah doesn’t make sense for Zoans

[visual merlin]

oh and also, this would imply all the paramecia awakenings are just changing environment

[dense wing]

Also Logia’s could simply be the whole changing environment thing too yeah?

[ripe geyser]

if gomu gomu is special in anyway then it will kinda ruin one piece for me. I liked it better when we thought it was a terrible fruit that luffy was using really creatively

[cosmic gull]

Like I said

[dense wing]

Logias don’t naturally change their environment

[cerulean coyote]

Yeah but law already changes environment

[visual merlin]

yea that could be the case, would be the easiest too

[dense wing]

Like say Smoker turns the area around him into smoke and he can weave in and out of the smoke

[visual merlin]

not what I mean, I mean like what doffy and katakuri do

[dense wing]

W punches and stuff

[cerulean coyote]

Also hiw would you awake capone's fruit? The surrounding become castle?

[dense wing]

That’d be cool

[visual merlin]

well, then maybe he's one of the people that can't awaken

maybe the same for law

[cerulean coyote]

Some paramecia then

[cosmic gull]

Maze Maze fruit Zoro worst nightmare

[dense wing]

Immortal surgery could potentially be awakening

[cerulean coyote]

Like mr 3 could awaken

[visual merlin]

maybe

[dense wing]

Mr 3 could prob awaken

[cosmic gull]

Candleman

[visual merlin]

but yea, if what doffy is saying is right, and there's no retconning or anything. Only some paramecias would have awakening and those that do would just be able to affect objects in that way that doffy does

but who knows, may not be completely right, or maybe oda changed it

[dense wing]

Considering there’s no way our protagonist doesn’t get awakening

Rubber world may be a thing

Based off Doffy’s words

[cosmic gull]

Bouncing ground

[dense wing]

Specifically during BB, I can 100% see Rubber world in play

[scenic thicket]

100% bc rubber counters shocks so well

[cosmic gull]

BB doesnt train is worthless

[scenic thicket]

BB eats the first shot in every fight

[dense wing]

BB trained his usage of the Gura

To have more control

We can obviously assume he’s getting stronger

[cosmic gull]

He doesnt have Haki XD

[dense wing]

We don’t know that, and I think a Vivre card confirmed he did?

Idk tho

[cosmic gull]

Unless he trains

[visual merlin]

he has armament and observation yea

[dense wing]

Yh

He has Haki

[visual merlin]

CoC not confirmed

[cosmic gull]

Oh no :(

[dense wing]

Obviously he doesn’t need it considering he has two broken fruits

[scenic thicket]

can u imagine him without it tho?

[visual merlin]

without haki?

[dense wing]

In terms of like why we haven’t seen him use Haki

[scenic thicket]

atleast a flash of CoC

[dense wing]

He may or may not have CoC

[visual merlin]

I could imagine him without it

[cosmic gull]

Not worthy to have CoC

[scenic thicket]

when they clash

[visual merlin]

mainly because oda may want to go for some sort of plot with that

[dense wing]

Yeah

The whole BB is unworthy

Not truly Joyboy

[cosmic gull]

Thanks

[scenic thicket]

lol ya all three of them

[dense wing]

By the time Luffy faces him BB will prob be the strongest pirate we’ve seen on screen

[cosmic gull]

Shiryu is rotten

[dense wing]

Like beyond Primebeard/Roger

I believe both Luffy and BB surpass them

[cerulean coyote]

When bb encounter luffy in impel he states luffys haki has grown

[visual merlin]

if BB gets a third fruit I definitely think he surpasses Roger and WB

but idk

[cerulean coyote]

So he can even sense it (even if luffy can't use haki)

[scenic thicket]

tbh i think the quickest way BB shows he’s the strongest pirate is by beating the strongest pirate that uses haki currently. shanks

[dense wing]

Considering he has the Gura and the Yami and will be Luffy’s final pirate opponent

I reckon he’s above Primebeard when we face him

Third devil fruit would just confirm it 100%

[pure raven]

first we need to find out how BB steals df and why he can habe more than one

[scenic thicket]

he’s eating ppl

but he’s also like three ppl

[cerulean coyote]

Kills people while having a real fruit nearby

[dense wing]

Considering WB was already dead

It prob wasn’t a fruit snatch like normal

[cerulean coyote]

We know devil fruits are normal fruits that turn into devil fruit when the user dies (from punk hazard)

[dense wing]

I assume it had to do w his DF

The Yami

And the black sheet

[scenic thicket]

no listen to me. if the devil fruit can inhabit a body like it does a fruit why can’t you take a bite out of a person before the devil fruit spirit returns to a fruit?

we saw it w/ big mom

[dense wing]

The Yami may be able to connect to a devil’s spirit or something

Well BM just proves if you eat a person alive u get their DF

[pure raven]

actually a good point BM did tge same think by eating mother caramel

[cerulean coyote]

In punk hazard when the lizard dies an apple turns into devil fruit

[scenic thicket]

yes ik, the spirit leaves the host for the fruit after a while. but if u eat the person BEFORE it transfers itself to a nearby fruit the person counts as the fruit

thts y BB ate him right after he died

[waxen dust]

BB got 3 personalities

[dense wing]

I don’t think he ate any part of WB because people would’ve noticed

[scenic thicket]

just a little nibble

[pure raven]

but that alone would mean you can bite a person and steal their df which is insane

[dense wing]

I believe it had to do with Yami

[cerulean coyote]

This is horrible even if it's only speculation

[dense wing]

Also the Caramel thing was BM ate her ALIVE

WB was dead

[scenic thicket]

how did shiryu get the invisible fruit?

[waxen dust]

He used the Yami Yami to pull out the fruit, like a warp hole

[dense wing]

The normal fruit method

[scenic thicket]

no it already had a person

[dense wing]

Have a basket of fruits nearby, kill the user

Then you get the fruit

[cerulean coyote]

You kill the owner and get a normal fruit in the nearby

[scenic thicket]

or u could eat thm which would b more hardcore n evil

[cerulean coyote]

Like he did with Satch in the first place

[waxen dust]

No they didn’t have a fruit on hand when doing it tho

[cerulean coyote]

For this reason Satch was killed

Otherwise was smarter to only steal the yami fruit

[scenic thicket]

no he didn’t have to eat snatch bc satch nvr ate the fruit in the first place

[cerulean coyote]

Instead of killing a nakama

[cerulean coyote]

Find evidence where it was said that Satch did not eat the fruit

[scenic thicket]

he could have just stolen it tho i agree w/ tht

[scenic thicket]

a major theme throughout one piece is tht the strong on the bad guys side eventually turn on their weaker subordinates anyway

[neon shoal]

does shanks know how important gomu gomu no fruit is?

[weary cliff]

Shanks is a clever guy. Assuming it was his crew that looted it, he probably had at least suspicions

[neon shoal]

Especially successfully stealing it from cp9

[scenic thicket]

i heard lucky roux stole it

[visual merlin]

maybe, if its just a normal fruit then Im sure he does

if its super special somehow maybe not, still possible though

[weary cliff]

The vivre card says so I believe, yeah. Probably directly from the WG ship and Who's Who

[weary cliff]

If all they took from a ship with CP9 on guard was a DF, that should speak to some kind of value

[visual merlin]

all fruits are valuable so yes

[weary cliff]

But to get that kind of transport detail? Unlikely. CP9 wasn't even there to handle the Ope Ope

[visual merlin]

There's several possibilities here, I think the most accepted one would be the CDs

if a CD wanted the gomu gomu

I find it fairly reasonable that they'd be able to get a cp9 member to guard it for them

regardless of how special the fruit itself is, what would matter is that a CD ordered it

[queen arrow]

they where pretty careless if they thought it was really important

[weary cliff]

Exactly, that the kind of thing Cipher Pol is for. So I'd wager Shanks can put that together too

[visual merlin]

that wouldn't make the fruit itself special though

the CDs also had the snake fruits that the boa sisters now have

[weary cliff]

But it does give it import, which was the original question

[queen arrow]

Shanks and crew that is

[visual merlin]

If we're talking on a level that involves who it was going to, sure

but even then, the snake fruits were also transported to them

so it'd come back to all fruits being valuable

so the gomu gomu isn't exceptionally special or important

[weary cliff]

Well we dont really know, do we? The zoan fruits could have gotten a much more mundane treatment

[visual merlin]

possibly, but either way the fruits were transported to CDs, if we're saying the value comes from who its being transported to here, it's the same

[weary cliff]

Just because of shonen tropes, I'd say the gomu gomu being special or having history is a safer bet

[merry sentinel]

Joy Boy history please

[visual merlin]

well that's getting into a different discussion

[weary cliff]

If the mystery raised this chapter boils down to "A CD wanted the fruit for no particular reason" it's a non-development

[visual merlin]

the development is us finding out about WW's past, and giving him a grudge against jinbe/the strawhats

also is a cool sort of callback, which connects things together

it wouldn't have to be any more than that

it could be, but not necessary

[weary cliff]

Again, that doesnt really do anything or go anywhere. He's already an enemy literally in what's probably his main fight. After this, he's not really relevant

[visual merlin]

it doesn't have to go anywhere

it tells us his backstory, tells us how he kinda knows jinbe, he has somewhat of a grudge, and its a cool way to connect dots

it doesn't have to continue to be relevant after this arc, or "go anywhere"

not much goes anywhere in that sense

[weary cliff]

But it's more likely that it will. The way its presented as a sort of cliffhanger reveal, tied to our protag no less, is a chance to expand the story. It doesnt have to, but that would really be out of place to use something so major for a worldbuilding detail tied to a minor villain

[scenic thicket]

buggy is there, minor villian to the key to the end of the journey mark my words

[weary cliff]

The entire Who's Who mystery itself makes more sense if it was building to this, opposed to the other way around

[queen arrow]

at this point idk if the fruit is special, but i doubt Shanks and his crew knew if it is

[visual merlin]

Its not major unless the fans make it out to be major, or ofc if oda goes along to make it major in the future. Just like with everything else, the cliffhanger doesn't have to be anything special. Could easily just be a moment meant to make us go "woah so thats how that happened"

[queen arrow]

CP9 being a secret group, it's even possible they beat WW and didn't know he was CP9

[weary cliff]

I really feel like your stretching to fit the narrative to your bias. I get its unpopular to make Luffy more special than he was originally presented, but we've been drifting that way for years anyways

[visual merlin]

Can you give an example of me doing that though? And this isn't about him not being special, he already is because he's going to be joyboy

[scenic thicket]

it 100% makes sense. but before i kinda liked the abstract way luffy could have been like joy boy for example using bone ballon to get a giant sized limb for attacking

[visual merlin]

but people see something, and always stretch it to the point of something like "oh well it must mean this super crazy scenario", again I won't throw out the possibility of it being special, but it certainly doesn't need to be

[scenic thicket]

bc now i’m just thinking a giant sized luffy using bone ballon the first go around 800 years ago why did he fail?

[weary cliff]

Its hardly a crazy scenario is all that I'm saying. It fits the narrative much better than it turning out to mean nothing

[scenic thicket]

it’s gonna mean smth

[visual merlin]

yes it isn't a crazy to think it might be special. And I've already said what it would mean

[scenic thicket]

but if it meant original giant joyboy had tht fruit why couldn’t he get the job done?

[visual merlin]

Im arguing against this idea a lot of people have that this must be special. The narrative has yet to be shifted in either direction in the story, I think many people have just been convinced of it due to all the theorizing and whatnot

[weary cliff]

Which is essentially nothing. The mysterious identity of this enemy exec is a guy that failed to do something ultimately as trivial as delivering a toy to Mariejois. Just feels off

[tropic cape]

i don’t think that criticism applies to this scenario though. this is definitely more about how there’s a lot of evidence involving literary tropes/devices and story context that makes the protag’s df more likely to be special rather than an argument about how it “must be special” because it’s the mc’s df

[scenic thicket]

could just b used as a joke

[tropic cape]

the two arguments are certainly similar but no one is arguing that it must be special because it’s the mc

[visual merlin]

It's nothing if you're already expecting some huge thing to happen

and, no not a toy

He failed to guard a df and got punished for it, leads in to how he somewhat knows jinbe and whatnot, he's not going to be big in the grand scheme of things, similar to how you said he was a minor character

[visual merlin]

Lots of people are definitely assuming it's special due to it being his fruit, even among people here, one of the major things that comes up is that it's his fruit. If we're getting into literary tropes and whatnot that's a whole different side of the discussion, that I think most people aren't delving much into in the first place

And if we're delving into that, it just comes down to how much you assume One piece will follow every common shounen trend

[weary cliff]

That's the thing though, the expectation just got raised. Who's Who was exactly what I expected; some random guy that Jimbe didnt even know. But instead of that resolving as a little thing, it is now leading to a potential major plot point. So where there wasn't much expectation there is now some hype. And to deliver something unimportant as the CDs, would be for it to have meant nothing

[visual merlin]

The expectation is raised by the community itself

[scenic thicket]

when buggy finds captain johns treasure ill b right

[visual merlin]

Where are we getting that it's not leading into a major plot point? This comes from ourselves or the community as a whole, assuming it's going down that path

people are setting their own expectations

[weary cliff]

Well the editor note at the end led them there, so you cant say its unwarranted

[scenic thicket]

i think it’ll b something bc this has been streatched a little too far w/o something new

[visual merlin]

Editor notes aren't really the most reliable thing as far as I know, but yea if people look at that and are saying it then that's more fair. But from what I've seen thus far it's mostly what Jott was just saying it's not

[pure raven]

I thought editor notes woudlbe more realibe, tbh. but guess never paid much attention.

[tropic cape]

big difference between assumption and presumption. the arguments presented in this chat presume that the gomu gomu is special because a powerful organization in the op world was handling it, shanks probably had an idea of what it was and stole it for a reason (his crew likely doesn't use df's themselves so why would they steal one? worth looking into or at least speculating the origins/potential of the gomu gomu), devil fruit's still have an unknown background so the devil fruit tied to the mc is likely to be the fruit that sheds deeper light into the situation of devil fruit's considering it's the fruit with the most audience eyes on it, and that's contextual evidence along with the trends of shounen that one piece has very often used to express the story.

[pure raven]

there is a theory about origin df maybe the gomu gomu no mi is one of them

I am starting to believe more and more that this will be super important.

[tropic cape]

the criticism sticks if there's no literary context to support the argument, but this scenario has a ton of unique factors that support the gomu gomu being special

[visual merlin]

Bad assumption knowing they were also handling the giraffe fruit, the bubble fruit, the snake fruits, and the Love? fruit. And the reason a pirate crew would steal a fruit is for money, definitely cannot assume they specifically went after it either, so many more possibilities there. And I think I've already acknowledged its fine to speculate on these things. Again if we're getting into shounen tropes, that's a discussion that will just come down to how much you want to assume one piece will follow said tropes

[visual merlin]

the argument is against people assuming this fruit must be special, but again, speculation is certainly fine

it's not crazy to think there's something special here, but it also shouldn't be assumed or presumed that it's special

[tropic cape]

now you're hiding the fact that CP9 didn't get their fruits from a special organization, but from the stockpile the WG already had AND shanks is not an ordinary pirate who stirs up trouble with CP9 for money

[pure raven]

we could stop arguing about if it is special or not and start stating arguments what could make it special, if it even is.

[tropic cape]

it's clear that this gomu gomu situation is unique to every other situation that has occurred

[visual merlin]

whatever stockpile they had came from somewhere Jott, assuming this came from any stockpile

and reminder that shanks isn't like the other yonko, and back then also wasn't a yonko

It doesn't have to be money, that's just a reason someone would steal a fruit

For all we know, they came across the ship, fought, and happened upon the fruit

and so the reason to take it would be money

[pure raven]

the most interesting thing about this is that this means that shanks stole from CP9 and maybe it is just me, but it is weird that a pirated that the WG seems to trust the most would steal from CP9, imo. But who knows, shanks probably do it all the time.

[visual merlin]

and no its really not, since we don't know the details of this situation, or really any of the others. But we do know the others, like the gomu gomu, would've been transported somehow all the same

[tropic cape]

Him being a yonko then doesn't matter. It's the fact that he and his crew aren't like other pirate crews and have a special importance about them. Do you truly think Shanks' answer to stealing from CP9 would be that he needed money?

[visual merlin]

he's a pirate at the end of the day, just because they're willing to talk doesn't mean he's not

[tropic cape]

It's even more unique when you consider his meeting with the WG

[visual merlin]

why aren't they like other pirate crews? When was it established they've never done something for some money?

[tropic cape]

His crew might be the most special/mysterious in OP

[pure raven]

yeah, that is a really good point. Shanks wouldnt need to worry about making more money. Not in such a drastic way to steal from CP9 when he is a yonko.

[visual merlin]

And yes, I think it's perfectly reasonable that they'd take a fruit for some cash. Especially considering it's not at all confirmed that they specifically went after this fruit

[tropic cape]

When was it established they do?

If anything it's more likely they'd do it for power

[visual merlin]

neither were. However one is more likely than the other knowing what pirates are and what they do

[pure raven]

honestly, if shanks really wanted to make a lot of money, he could of tried looking for a super powerful DF that any pirate would spend an arm and a leg on. So why gomu gomu no mi?

[visual merlin]

Cool, if that's a possibility you believe in, there's another

[visual merlin]

Again, why are we assuming they specifically went after this? There's so many possibilities

they could've easily just happened upon them, decided to fight, and find the fruit

[dusky acorn]

Not weird to me, it was always going to be likely that Shanks as a pirate would have msessed with the marines/WG at some point or another throughout his decades of piracy

That huge bounty's gotta build off from somewhere

[visual merlin]

or maybe they specifically went after cp9, but not for the fruit

[tropic cape]

Well what I'm saying is that the context around Shanks and his crew support a more unique reason than just money or power. The story supports Shanks being the most passive yonko as well as having mysterious intentions behind every one of his actions. Money isn't a good reason at all. It's easier to support the theory that it's unique to the story.

[visual merlin]

Nothing supports any unique reason for any of this. It supports him being the most passive yonko, but also still a yonko with a 4 billion bounty. And yes, money is a perfectly good reason, that's what pirates do

[dusky acorn]

Shanks and his crew were also repeatedly going out for voyages while lodged at Foosha Village

This could have just been them catching a lucky break and seeing some valuable chance to plunder in the otherwise passive East Blue

[visual merlin]

If you choose to assume that he specifically went after the fruit, then it becomes more likely it is special, but then, why would we do that?

[dusky acorn]

I don't know how they could have gotten any predisposed intel on this ship or what is was carrying beforehand

[tropic cape]

Neither of these things are unique to shanks. Shanks isn't like "every other pirate" so this isn't a convincing reason.

[visual merlin]

Shanks is a pirate, I see no reason to think just because he's a yonko now, or because he's "mysterious" that he must not ever do anything for the sake of money, or trivial things, such as good alcohol

[pure raven]

I get your point Laww. You are not wrong at all, imo. Shanks can do things like any other pirate if he wanted to.

[visual merlin]

You're acting as if there's a bunch of evidence supporting the idea that Shanks doesn't do things for money, or anything like that. The more natural assumption would be that as a pirate, he does things for money some times, or for alcohol, or for fun, not everything has to be planned out and special because he's mysterious

[tropic cape]

He's a pirate, but applying pirate stereotypes isn't logical considering he had no clear need for money, Shanks has shown to have much deeper reasons for his actions than just money, and his crew is more important than almost every other pirate crew in the story so why would this plot point boil down to something as shallow as Shanks needing money when he had never shown the need for it?

[nimble hinge]

Luffy and his crew aren't like every other pirate and they regularly loot and steal

[visual merlin]

His personality would support it too, in my opinion at least

[tropic cape]

It's not natural to apply stereotypes that were never needed. Just because someone's a chef doesn't mean they need ingredients if they have a ton of ingredients in their fridge already...

[visual merlin]

You don't need a "clear need for money" to do things because it'll get you some more money. And what actions? The 3 actions he's had that have involved actual wars and whatnot? Why are we acting as if this applies to everything else now?

[visual merlin]

it is natural knowing he's a pirate, and there's nothing going against it

[tropic cape]

Not something as important as a devil fruit

[nimble hinge]

That doesn't exactly help your point does it?

[visual merlin]

Whats unnatural, is assuming he must not do things for money, simply because he's mysterious, or because you think he had money already

[pastel summit]

this is assuming the devil fruit is the only thing they stole, which is probably not the case

[visual merlin]

Or worse, acting as if his actions relating to marineford represents everything he does

[pastel summit]

you are implying luffy wouldnt take a DF if he found one? especially if Nami told him how much it was valued for. He 100% would

[nimble hinge]

I doubt Roger needed money and his crew took fruits as well. How did they get Buggy's fruit again?

[pure raven]

I mean, I am sure the straw hats would loot a devil fruit if they wanted to and had the chance to, tbh.

[midnight pendant]

there was a theory i read on reddit which said that wg made fruits to counter yonko's fruits momo's fruit for kaidou and gomu gomu for whitebeard

[tropic cape]

Important objects in stories receive unique plot points. the amount of unique plot points and important aspects of the story in this one flashback is too much to boil down to just "money". Take this argument along with the great amount of contextual evidence we've received about Shanks and the history of devil fruits then it's easier to support the concept of "this devil fruit is special" over "Shanks needed money"

Needing money doesn't advance half of that plot. Shanks having a good reason for it would.

[dusky acorn]

why would this plot point boil down to something as shallow as Shanks needing money when he had never shown the need for it?

What this boils down to is this plot point doesn't necessarily have to hinge on adding some big layer of depth towards the Red Hairs from this.

This is Who's Who's backstory, further developing him, as well as perhaps adding a potential reason for the Gum Gum fruit to be more valuable than just a fruit

[pastel summit]

The fruit itself can easily be irrelevant to why shanks attacked the ship though.

[tropic cape]

And him having a good reason for it that lies deeper than money is also parallel with Shanks' personality and his intentions throughout this series.

[pastel summit]

the fruit doesn't have to be special to "advance the plot"

[dusky acorn]

The Red Hairs should be like, the least important thing in the context of this flashback out of the 3 aspects

[nimble hinge]

Why shanks wanted the fruit is a retrospective thing regardless. It doesn't advance the plot either way

[tropic cape]

I mean sure we don't have to advance the plot of Shanks being involved in this random story from 12 years ago, but it would make sense to advance it.

[midnight pendant]

shanks did say he looted other things and shared among his crew and that he took devil fruit as his share not knowing its powers

[pastel summit]

thats not what I said

[tropic cape]

Shanks stealing the fruit for a reason that ends at the point of him saying why would kill that plot point right then and there. If his reason corresponds with his intentions in the story currently then that would advance the plot.

[pastel summit]

Shanks could've attacked the ship for reasons unrelated to the fruit. The fruit doesn't have to be special to advance that plotline.

[midnight pendant]

do u think shanks knows dragon

dragon could have just tipped him off about fruit without sharing any more details

[tropic cape]

Yet the plot point was directly about him stealing the fruit successfully rather than attacking the ship successfully. It's clear the story was focused on the theft rather than the attack.

[weary cliff]

They may have wanted the gomu gomu for WB, but the fact that it was previously documented in the DF encyclopedia tells us its not a new invention

[midnight pendant]

where does it say that

[pastel summit]

this can easily be a misdirect, Oda has done it countless times in the past. Don't focus on it until we have the full story

[midnight pendant]

df book was mentioned by sanji for invisibility and bb for darkness idr any other references

[nimble hinge]

Personally I think it's something else other than the fruit. Shanks was in East Blue for over a year for some reason. That CP9 ship, seemingly was in EB as well. I doubt shanks was there waiting for that fruit the entire time. Seems like the goal was something else, but the fruit came as a bonus. The fruit can be related to the other thing. But I don't think the fruit is the focus.

[pastel summit]

^

agreed with that. I am certain that this plotline has something to do with why Shanks was in East Blue for over a year, and I doubt it was to steal a fruit. It probably has something more to do with where the ship was going to/coming from.

e.g he was monitoring govt ships in the area or something

[midnight pendant]

but why would he do monitoring personally wouldnt he make his crew do it for him

i mean monitoring isnt that big of a task

[pastel summit]

by him I mean his whole crew obviously lol

his whole crew was in east blue, not just shanks himself

[weary cliff]

Not in the main story. It showed up in an SBS

[midnight pendant]

his entire crew an yonkos crew cant have fit in just a bar

or his crew was small

[rigid wadi]

do you think that this new gomu gomu info and reveals will extend Wano expected duration=?

[pastel summit]

wasnt a yonko at the time so idk what that has to do with it

[midnight pendant]

i was thinking he would assign that task to some of his crew and then he would do something else

[nimble hinge]

Shanks went on several small voyages for the course of one year in EB. It's very clear that he had some sort of goal, whether that was looking for someone/something or monitoring someone /something.

And he continued to do so, even AFTER finding the fruit. If you believe the goal was his fruit, then he wouldn't continue doing what he'd done for a year. But we know he did exactly that.

[rigid wadi]

People thought Wano could end in like 20-25 chapters

[tropic cape]

Yeah I agree with all of that. I just think that, on top of those layers, Shanks had a specific reason for taking the df away from the WG that's related to his long term goal. It's hard to believe it was a decision intended for just money or power especially considering Shanks seems to be an important aspect of the final saga which will reveal the history of the devil fruits along with what they were intended for.

[scenic thicket]

lol nd yassop nvr checked on his son at any point

[nimble hinge]

Actually I think we'll be told that yasopp did check on him. But from afar

[weary cliff]

I expect this plot thread to resolve when we get to Shanks. Not much need for Who's Who to give his entire mission brief, if he even knew what it was for. Although it would be nice to settle the argument sooner than later lol

[rigid wadi]

Hope so. I want Wano to get resolved soon and move on to next arc(I expect it to be Elbaf)

[pure raven]

100% agree probably a build up for the next arc

[nimble hinge]

Shanks goal being the Devil Fruit doesn't make sense. Because there's no reason to stay in EB once he's gotten the fruit.

Even after finding it, he stays in that sea. Continues doing what ever he'd been doing for a year already. And using windmill village as his home base.

He explicitly tells luffy that he's got a couple more expeditions planned, and that's after he's gotten the fruit.

And that after those are done, he'll leave the village for good.

[midnight pendant]

u forgot reveal about sabo

[weary cliff]

Agreed. Nothing from chapter 1 makes it seem like the fruit was particularly important to his plans at all. So either it wasn't, we get a retcon, or we get a semi retcon that shows we were misdirected as readers

[rigid wadi]

well, we don't know much about him 12 years ago. is stated that he has been a Yonko for 6 years, so prior to that I guess he had many troubles with WG and one of his objetives was Gomu gomu fruit for unknown reasons

[tame steeple]

How did he get the fruit I forgot

[tropic cape]

This channel is literally for discussing aspects of the story that haven't been resolved.

[nimble hinge]

Seems like the fruit was just a bonus to his objectives.

[pastel summit]

once again, not what I said.

[weary cliff]

Plunder from an enemy ship

[pure raven]

do u think anyone knows about the sabo incident in wano

[nimble hinge]

Not an actual objective itself.

[midnight pendant]

marco would

[tame steeple]

Marineford part 2

[midnight pendant]

and also bm piirates

[rigid wadi]

Not really, hope he doesn't end up like a Ace 2.0 plot

[pure raven]

i think x drake

[tame steeple]

But it’s actually successful

[pure raven]

highly unlikely

[midnight pendant]

and they could get news as soon as they leave wano and get paper

[tame steeple]

Aren’t the marines going to Wano?

[weary cliff]

If Sabo is in custody, he's not getting a public execution. It looks like they reported his death already, although it's fake news

[pure raven]

do u think theyll split up again

[midnight pendant]

no akainu refused

[tame steeple]

I feel like they will show up

[pure raven]

why would they

[rigid wadi]

yeah, he just pref pirates to destroy each other and then attack. 2 Yonkos would mean too many looses to marines

[tropic cape]

Don't focus on it until we have the full story

This would defeat the purpose of theorizing about the full story.

[pure raven]

arent they after the warlords

[nimble hinge]

Don't think they've reported his death. Read more so as framing him for the death of Cobra.

[pastel summit]

I am saying you cannot definitively say the fruit is important because there's 2 panels of exposition on it. Oda has misdirected like that before. It's not a good idea to focus on the fruit being important just because there's 2 panels of exposition.

Nor is it solid evidence that the fruit is important.

[pure raven]

bro i just wanna know what happened

[nimble hinge]

You're tunnel visioning on the fruit. And ignoring the inconsistencies that are formed as a result.

[tame steeple]

What do you guys think about Rocks being shanks dad?

[weary cliff]

The Dadan reaction is almost explicit that he's reported dead. I agree though, I think he was framed in addition

[weary cliff]

Seems plausible

[tropic cape]

My theory wasn't definitive. I said "likely" the entire time and was mainly arguing about how a special intention is more likely than a mundane intention such as getting money.