manga-theories

[reef grotto]

moreover, he promised he'd build a ship that could beat a sea king

[grizzled fog]

Which he did ages ago

[reef grotto]

I guess franky is just gonna build pluton one day

[weak arrow]

Never.

[tired osprey]

Wonder if it would be justified if the real pluton shows up in enemy hands

Nothing can stop an ancient weapon but another ancient weapon

Would be a cool moment for franky too

[reef grotto]

general rule of shonen manga: if they talk about something cool, it's gonna appear

[tired osprey]

Yup

[inner island]

Do you think joy boy is just a title

[weak arrow]

Yes. Similar to Poseidon.

[reef grotto]

I think there was actually someone nicknamed joy boy, then they started using it as a title

starting from roger who used it first, then whitebeard and kaido made it a title

[reef grotto]

ah nvm I just got to that part in my rereading

[inner island]

I see do you think joy boy is trapped under the giant strawhat

[reef grotto]

perhaps

who is to say

[crude ridge]

I just heard

one of the most crazy ass theory that has a super high chance of becoming true

[reef grotto]

what is it

[reef grotto]

I wanna know

[pastel summit]

same underlying principle as coup de vent. nothing new for franky. compressed air just his thing really.

[crude ridge]

That the one piece and all blue are connected

[reef grotto]

that's the standard idea of what the one piece is

the one piece is the unification of all seas, so the all blue is the point where all the seas would meet after the destruction of red line and calm belt

[crude ridge]

https://youtu.be/lkelHLQwHWo

idk if you've seen this or nah

[reef grotto]

everyone's seen that

[crude ridge]

Ah ok good to know then

but man it shocked me when i heard it

[spice dew]

Mr morj theories crazy good

[hollow grotto]

This is an old theory made by someone on a forum thread, Morj just added onto it

[spice dew]

His vids are clear explanations

[hollow grotto]

that's unrelated to whether his theories are good though

but I agree that they're clear and easy to understand

[spice dew]

A lot of the points he explains makes sense to me but truly guessing the rest of OP plot isn't easy

[unreal marlin]

After the Yamato scene in the anime intro luffy looks like he’s in water moving. Could this be anything

[cedar sinew]

no

the fact that the sub came to rescue him should be more than enough evidence for Luffy not overpowering the water

[lucid gull]

yo guys, y'all ever heard of the Phantom Time Hypothesis? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_time_hypothesis

So the conspiracy theory is that time was added to the calendar to make some rulers at some point in time rule at a significant yearly number and make it seem like they were chosen by god or something "Oh look at me I'm the king of the year 1000 aren't I amazing"

my thinking is that, what if the void century never actually existed? What if the ancient civilization that created the weapons and conquered the world over the course of a century was a fabrication made up by the world government to legitimize their totalitarian rule, similar to how Doffy conquered Dressrosa?

if time was added to the calendar through a series of forged documents, lack of widespread communication, etc, making it seem like the world government was able to fight back and defeat a tyrannical world power, that would explain why information of that era is so suppressed

[pastel summit]

that wouldn't make sense. Why fabricate it in order to legitimize their rule, while also destroying the "evidence" that it ever existed?

if it was fabricated, then why not spread that "history" and tell it as the truth?

[lucid gull]

same reason why the ruler of beastmen and the spiral beings in Gurren Lagann never completely demolished spiral forces. It's much more plausible to leave breadcrumbs than it is to be squeaky clean

gotta give people enough hope to think there's something more, but then make it hopeless that they ever find it

[pastel summit]

how is it legitimizing the rule if literally no one figures it out and they actively prevent people from doing so???

[lucid gull]

the legitimizing of the rule would have happened 800 years ago at the time of the void century, and then covered up in order to avoid people looking too closely into it I figure

the longer a story is out the more it has a chance to be scrutinized. Bring it out, spread it around, then suppress it once you have the power to do so

[pastel summit]

I don't get that. You're saying they fabricated an ancient kingdom that no one knows about because they prevent anyone from learning about it, paint them as a villain that no one knows about because they prevent anyone from learning about it, all in order to present themselves as saviours who overthrew the ancient kingdom that never existed and legitimize them as proper rulers. Who are the legitimizing themselves to? Themselves? No one knows this story

[lucid gull]

there are plenty of ways this could be justified, I just think it's fun to think about as another perspective to the void century

[pastel summit]

yeah but it's completely contradictory to the story. It's fine to theorize, but it should flow.

[lucid gull]

no one nowadays knows this story. That's the point, people back then must have, so what happened to that knowledge?

[pastel summit]

The void century being fake makes no sense.

[lucid gull]

that knowledge somehow disappeared and was only left behind in the writings of poneglyphs, maybe it disappeared so easily because it never existed?

[pastel summit]

The WG destroyed it? They destroyed oral and written history. The WG took over, so they had the power to remove that from being told.

[lucid gull]

exactly, so the basis of this theory is really around however the WG attained power in the first place

[pastel summit]

the only thing they couldn't destroy were the poneglyphs.

[lucid gull]

if they attained power by faking a coup or conquerer of some kind then a fake void century could fit

[pastel summit]

But then why not present that to the world???? It literally makes no sense.

They fake a coup to never tell anyone about it, what is the point of faking if no one knows?

[lucid gull]

um okay I think we're crossing some wires here I'm gonna double back and clarify a bit:

• WG fakes or vilifies a civilization, drumming up a boogeyman that never existed
• out of fear people accept the WG as their new overlords, and the WG "vanquishes" the civilization.
• now fully legitimized and in power, the WG works to suppress and demolish all information relating to the fake civilization so that no one discovers the truth
• fast forward to nowadays, the only thing the WG needs to do in order to stay in power is make sure no one looks too closely at the void century

[pastel summit]

then what are the poneglyphs?

[lucid gull]

I figure whatever civilization existed before the WG established its dominance

[pastel summit]

if it's the WG who wrote that history, the poneglyphs don't make sense.

[lucid gull]

I don't think I've read anywhere that the poneglyphs specifically point to the void century in any of their writings, only that they're theorized to relate to the void century

like, Robin wants to discover the truth but she hasn't learned anything about the void century despite reading all these poneglyphs top to bottom

[pastel summit]

the poneglyphs tell the true history.

[lucid gull]

yeah, that's not something to dispute I don't think

[pastel summit]

because she hasn't found them all, and they're connected. You need all of them to know the full truth. Oden also wrote in his journal that he knows what happened, rayleigh says he knows what happened.

so who wrote them? Is clover's hypothesis just flatout incorrect? because he states that he found evidence of a great and powerful kingdom.

[lucid gull]

that could also mean that they know what didn't happen. I've got a thought, one of the bigger theories is that "one piece" and joyboy's treasure/the ancient weapons are all meant to help demolish the barriers between the four seas and establish a free and open sea

[lucid gull]

yeah "what the 100-year void is," not "what happened in the 100-year void"

so maybe the ancient civilization was able to prosper through these ancient weapons bringing the world together, the WG cuts off these ancient weapons making it impossible for information to travel freely, and then the truth is theirs to write

[pastel summit]

so is joyboy a made up character? If there's no actual kingdom, what are the stories of joyboy and such?

[lucid gull]

what, I never said that

consider the following possibilities:
It wasn't a void century, but a void of two decades in which joyboy existed. Additional time was added to further distance his influence

or maybe it was all fabricated, and the events that occurred leading to the WG's prosperity occurred within a few years of when the "void century" was supposed to start

anyways there's a lot of justifications and things that could go any which way, the point I'm trying to make with this theory is this:

"what proof do we have that the calendar in One Piece is chronologically accurate"

that's really all this boils down to

ofc if there's like a single thing in shandora that provides an accurate timeline this all goes out the window lmao

hell it could even go the other way around, maybe it was two or three centuries of void that was condensed into one

[pastel summit]

maybe I'm just not understanding here.
Random kingdom exists
WG says kingdom is bad
people say "oh no, that kingdom is bad"
WG vanquishes it and props themselves up as heroes
removes evidence that random kingdom wasn't bad?
fabricates void century to cover their tracks.

is the only thing here that they're just... saying it was 100 yrs gone when it wasn't? I'm not sure what is too different otherwise. The basic story we are told is that a prosperous kingdom existed 900 yrs ago, and 800 yrs ago it stopped existed and the WG started existing, as well as the poneglyphs appearing in the world.

[lucid gull]

kind of? That's one way it could have gone down. Like as a parallel, if Doffy had been ruling long enough he could have manipulated information to say that there was no King Riku. If the nation was completely isolated he could probably fabricate the calendar to say that Riku existed, but he was vanquished centuries ago. Making it easier and easier to appear a legitimate king.

the way my friend sparked this idea in me is that he brought up one of his favorite narrative devices, the unreliable lore. It kinda goes like this:

• Introduce a legend or mythos in the world that everyone knows
• build the history of your world around this legend or mythos so that it's weaved into everything seamlessly and is unquestionable
• then at some point, reveal the true history and explain how it resulted in that legend or mythos

like if you hear about a guy who vanquished 50 men when he was younger and that's the guy who started the nation you're in right now, and he's constantly referred to. At some point you uncover the truth that he was actually super peaceful and never killed anyone, but was villainized in order to create propaganda against the nation you're in. Re-contextualizes everything

[pastel summit]

I think that's broken by the fact that history prior remains. It is specifically the 100 yrs that is missing.

[lucid gull]

so I thought about that and the phantom time hypothesis, how that could happen in One Piece

well tbf we really odn't know much about the timeline around the void century anyways

[pastel summit]

okay yeah but that's broken by not everyone knowing about the void century. It's not common knowledge I don't think.

the lore of the void century isn't fabricated, it's outright eliminated.

[lucid gull]

this is a narrative device more intended for the reader than the characters, the characters are just moreso a vehicle for this narrative device. So if all of us readers know about the void century it's the same effect

our understanding of the void century is "an ancient civilization conquered the world using ancient weapons, and at some point disappeared and were replaced by the WG."

So what ways could that be re-contextualized to be a completely false understanding?

[pastel summit]

Woah what? Conquered the world?

[lucid gull]

that's something Crocodile mentions I think

[pastel summit]

Don't think that has ever been established.

[lucid gull]

may not have been "conquered the world" but something along the lines of "a major world power due to the ancient weapons"

[pastel summit]

the ancient kingdom is first mentioned by Clover. Croc only talks about Pluton being an ancient weapon that CAN destroy islands.

We don't know that either. We don't know who possessed the ancient weapons, or whether they were a major power specifically because of them. We just know they existed.

[wraith shard]

I have a bold prediction, the Wano Arc will actually end with a 3-way between Luffy, Law, and Kidd once they take down Kaido. I think they'll let their pride take over and try to determine who really is the strongest among the three and who deserves to be the Pirate King. If not at Wano, it will happen somewhere else. I see Law and Kidd as rivals to Luffy than allies after Wano.

[lucid gull]

ah okay, I'm sure I heard that somewhere but I"m not sure... I hope I'm not accidentally citing an inaccurate page on the wiki haha

we really don't know much about the void century in any case so it could end up anywhere

[pastel summit]

https://i.imgur.com/ltmEVBg.png https://i.imgur.com/vNHZKcC.png

The fact that they wanted clover killed over this, I feel is a safe assumption that what he says is true. Or neither party holds the truth. In which case you have to establish a 3rd source of information, which hasn't been done yet.

[lucid gull]

I mean just cuz it's true doesn't mean the rest ain't false

[pastel summit]

He says a lot more than just that. I mean like, the whole thing.

[lucid gull]

it's only One Piece ™ of the puzzle

like I mean the rest of what people talk about, not specifically Clover

[pastel summit]

yeah but no one else has really talked about it outside of clover?

[lucid gull]

well I have to ask that question to you then

like in line with all that, if the void century's timeline is in fact skewed, what do you think that would mean?

if there were an alternate truth that could be provided to recontextualize the timeline, what would it contain?

[pastel summit]

nothing?

[lucid gull]

aw c'mon, humor me a bit lol

[pastel summit]

idk what the timeline has to do with it.

[weak arrow]

Law fighting Luffy is never happening. Law is not really a rival anymore. Their goals align. Law wants to learn about D, not being the proclaimed Pirate King. However, to learn this info, you will presumably have to be get to Laugh Tale, thus become the PK. They will work together for the rest of the series because Law needs Robin's ability. Luffy and Kid? Well they'll probably sleep for a week after the arc ends regardless and then go on with their lives

[pastel summit]

I am trying to, I can't think of what you're going with. Idk what exactly you mean? The it's not 100 years that was erased, but 20? Okay, what does that change? The calendar is off?

[lucid gull]

I mean to re-establish the general idea of my theory, that the timeline and calendar of the world were fabricated to help legitimize the WG's takeover. In any way shape or form that it was fabricated, what could motivate the WG to do something like that?

[pastel summit]

yeah I mean I still don't see what that has to do with helping to legitimize the WG

[lucid gull]

yeah I mean, that's where it starts. If the calendar's off that seems slight, but there are plenty of reasons to erase or rewrite history

oh in terms of legitimizing it'd be like making events seem too distant and established in tradition to change. Like if you met my civilization and I proclaimed we've existed for 800 years you'd be less likely to try and change things than if I told you I founded this lil clubhouse yesterday, right?

[pastel summit]

yeah but you're saying the erasing they did is actually less than what is not even claimed, but the void century is not something that people really talk about. The WG is viewed as an alliance of nations, not some superpower that defeated an evil.

[lucid gull]

Right! To parallel to the world world the war on iraq seemed justified at the time from national panic, and in hindsight was seen as a horrendous overreach

so maybe the WG did something so horrendous that they didn't want people to remember it, and so changed the facts of history in some way

[pastel summit]

That much is obvious, I don't see where your "it's not actually 100 yrs" comes into play.

[lucid gull]

maybe they made the ancient civilization only as young as 100 years in the void century so they feel less legitimate, as one example

shandora existed long before hte world government and never allied with the WG, after all

[pastel summit]

yeah but that's false because history exists that predates the void century.

[lucid gull]

if history exists that predates the void century, what benefit could come from warping the calendar in some way?

[pastel summit]

Yes, I don't know. stop playing coy, I legit have no idea why that would be relevant.

[lucid gull]

I'm not playing coy, I'm inviting you to join me in thinking about this. Story can really be whatever the hell you want it to be, and anything can be justified in some way, but how you justify it depends on the facts of the story. If you just say "this couldn't happen" then that's where the theory ends

[pastel summit]

To me that sounds like just a random prank. "Akshually it wasn't 100 years, it was only 20 years!!" "yeah but you still did all this shit"

[lucid gull]

you have a lot of knowledge of One Piece so if you put the pieces together yourself, you might come up with an alternative theory that could be just as ludicrous but possibly closer to the truth

who knows! It's just fun to theorize lol

[pastel summit]

right, but if you're making the theory, there should be some kind of conclusion, right? especially one without any grounded evidence.

I don't currently see what lying about the timeline achieves.

because the timeline is the least relevant part of it. Our knowledge of the whole history of OP world is so limited that the timeline basically doesn't matter.

[lucid gull]

Idk if that's inherently true! When writing my own stories or ideas my best ideas have always come when I just propose an idea and play with it, arriving at the conclusion without even realizing it.

[weak arrow]

The main issue with the theory is finding an answer to why they would choose to rewrite the history to be erased instead of rewriting history into a story

and there's no logical answer for that

so pondering this is completely pointless

[lucid gull]

I think the idea of the void century being more of an abstraction than its been presented as, is really where I'm jumping off of

[wraith shard]

Hmm, yeah you're right

[lucid gull]

well I'm gonna keep pondering to myself then haha

[pastel summit]

yeah I mean, I can't think of anything. come back after wano ends with this theory, maybe new info will come up.

right now, there's nothing to go off for me.

[weak arrow]

Only thing I have to add is that Toki is from this century you think is shortened or maybe even lengthened, and she knew that at some point, the world would be overturned

[lucid gull]

yeah that's something that really interested me, is that Toki never seems like she's come from an era of like "OH GOD I ESCAPED WORLD WAR 7 TO GET HERE THANK GOD IT'S PEACEFUL"

she's pretty nonchalant about her past and she was born right at the tail end of what would be the void century, I wonder what her deal is

[pastel summit]

to be fair, her introduction was her getting assaulted by pirates, idk if she thought it was peaceful.

[lucid gull]

not specifically related to my proposed theory but I always got the sense that she was oddly casual about being from the void century despite the fact that we've kinda been led to believe it as an era of great change. Especially the tail end of it when the WG was formed and the ancient weapons scattered

I would've thought if it was as world changing and her endgame so crucial to teh events of the void century she'd be more desperate and specific like one of those time travel tropes of "I'VE COME BACK TO RE-WRITE HISTORY AND AVOID A TERRIBLE FUTURE"

so it's just a bit odd that she's acted so carefree and just kinda wanted to go to Wano

although bringing it back to the phantom time hypothesis theory I proposed, maybe the void century is really just about a tumultuous series of events in the last decade or so of that century that completely changed everything

[pastel summit]

Well, she urgently wanted to go, so it's likely given as a mission. then oden came along and her priorities shifted.

[lucid gull]

yeah that's what gets me, like she doesn't act like it's a mission but rather a dream of hers

"I hear that in 800 years everything will change, that'd be pretty cool to do for a vacation"

[cedar sinew]

she doesn't know about 800 years. She kept jumping in time, probably in small increments, to find a certain person

and that's probably the extent to her knowledge. To find a person, along with her prophecy.

[sand robin]

Robin will be kidnapped by black maria

[weak arrow]

Yeah. It was Oden that had to tell her it would be 20 years.

[cedar sinew]

I don't think she's a major player in the void century as a whole, more of only Wano. Hence why she only seems to care for Wano

I wonder how Oden knew about 20 years though

I guess the only answer is something at laugh tale

[weak arrow]

Seakings

[pastel summit]

Seakings

[weak arrow]

(10 years to birth, 15 years for maturing)

[sand robin]

My biggest question is if Toki died 20 year ago, the DF will spawn to somewhere place, and who will inherit the power now ?

[cedar sinew]

oh did 5 years pass since that flashback

[weak arrow]

yes

[pastel summit]

yes.

[weak arrow]

yes, it should. Could respawn wherever, eaten by whomever, and could already be 1000 years in the future

[cedar sinew]

I didn't really think of it because the seaking prophecy wasn't Wano specific but makes sense

[pastel summit]

yeah but the seaking prophecy was after they reached laugh tale, so they'd have context on stuff.

like poseidon being born and growing into power, and how that connects to wano.

[weak arrow]

nah choc that was a flashback im pretty sure

[pastel summit]

I don't even want to say prophecy.

[weak arrow]

but oden still has that knowledge later anyway when he returns to wano, so same outcome

[pastel summit]

oh yeah. it was.

[sand robin]

Wano open the border will be the final outcome of this arc, the question is what momo learn from oden log ? Why he say that he cant die yet ?

[weak arrow]

Also mai this is about our convo yday, but this panel is sorta implying telepathic communication between shyarley and Roger

[cedar sinew]

because of the speech bubbles??

[weak arrow]

yes

[pastel summit]

I took that as just because it was roger recalling the memory.

[cedar sinew]

isn't that just to indicate that it's a flashback

yeah

[sand robin]

They talking shirahoshi

[pastel summit]

flashback within a flashback

[weak arrow]

yeah i thought that too after i posted it

especially ebcause the previous chapter literally has that exact panel of them speaking

[sand robin]

Seaking waiting Poseidon

[cedar sinew]

Adam idk if you read Shimon's response to my theory but it supports what we talked about

[weak arrow]

no i didnt see it

[cedar sinew]

#manga-theories message

basically, Luffy displays a similar type of parallel willpower during the first KO, which transforms into CoC, further confirming the "willpower extended by CoC" line of reasoning

[weak arrow]

also this isnt a flashback but uses the speech bubbles

[cedar sinew]

it's the same thing

telepathic communication

which also gets used to flashbacks

[sand robin]

Interesting

[weak arrow]

oda needs to do better

[sand robin]

So its like luffy said with seaking language to momo

[cedar sinew]

not really

[cedar sinew]

#manga-theories message
further explanation on this

it's just a way of demonstrating that words aren't spoken outloud, rather communicated directly, or telepathically, whichever word you want to use

because seakings don't literally talk. At least they shouldn't biologically

[sand robin]

Seaking is talk but only people with voat ability can hear them

[lucid gull]

new theory: voat is rare because its users all got purged when amazon shut off its servers. Luffy is ascended from one of the few naive genuine users of the site who didn't realize its use as an extremist platform

[weak arrow]

which panel am i missing about kaido hearing a voice

[lucid gull]

that kind of speech bubble is probably just supposed to indicate some kind of ethereal voice, whether that means a telepathic voice or a sentence uttered that has spanned across history, or the fading tail end of a memory as the memory fades

I kinda get the same vibe off of it as like when you're having a dream and then the dream is fading and the words seem to echo off into the distance. Works well for telepathy too

[sand robin]

Kaido cant hear any voice

How heart pirate can hear Luffy voice?

[cedar sinew]

Well Kaido doesn't hear a voice.
What the KO shows is a different application of Luffy's willpower. And the fact that both Kaido and Heart Sub only vaguely understands what's going on, through Luffy's sheer presence.
As a hypothetical, it's possible that if Momo was next to Luffy he might've heard something along the lines of "I won't lose, I'll get up", if Luffy was radiating that in his mind.
The transition to CoC also is another example to the parallel.

[autumn vapor]

Prolly seakings or something led them towards luffy inadvertently

[weak arrow]

Oh i thought he was referring to Kaido hearing luffy in the past 3 chapters

[cedar sinew]

Another way of putting it is, Kaido doesn't hear a voice because that was probably not Luffy's intentions, but it was his intentions when he fell down to the ocean

[weak arrow]

I mean i pretty much agree with the theory. I was already likening that Luffy unconscious moment in leftovers town to what he did in the latest chapter so yeah

[sand robin]

Luffy is not unconscious if he can talk to momo, his body is very tiring but his mind still good condition

[cedar sinew]

gotcha Adam

#manga-theories message read this @sand robin

it'll answer your questions

[tired lynx]

The new one piece anime has been lacking lately

[sand robin]

So luffy can manipulate his coc to some extent and communicate his "thought/voice" to nearby people, momo is special coz he have voat and can hear luffy "thought/voice" at far place

[cedar sinew]

yup

[warm hollow]

Jean Bart also has voat

[cedar sinew]

he doesn't

[cedar sinew]

not the right channel for this.

[tired lynx]

yeah i was in this channel from last time and didnt notice

so i moved to general

[warm hollow]

How do you explain this

[cedar sinew]

#manga-theories message

1. they all have the same reaction
2. his reactios aren't like Momo
3. he can't even make out what Luffy's saying
4. willpower/coc reasoning

"it's like we could hear"

[warm hollow]

3. how do you know he can't make out what Luffy was saying

[cedar sinew]

"it's like we could hear"

aka "I don't know what he's saying but he seems to be saying something vaguely"

[warm hollow]

That's not how I read it

[cedar sinew]

well that's what it means

[modest skiff]

I took it the same way Mai took it

[cedar sinew]

if they heard the same thing Momo said they wouldn't say "it's like we could hear"

they would say "wow luffy said this! or we can hear luffy's voice!"

not sure how to further explain that

[warm hollow]

Maybe he was done with his phone call with momo and then he made the sos to the sub

That's how I took it

[cedar sinew]

what phone call

[warm hollow]

Yknow what I meant

[cedar sinew]

I don't know

what phone call

[warm hollow]

The voat phone call

[cedar sinew]

so how would that go to the sub

[modest skiff]

I think he made an SOS to the sub but since they aren't voat they couldn't hear it

[warm hollow]

After that he used it again to guide the sub to him

[modest skiff]

I think they heard some kinda echo/whisper and couldn't really tell what it was so they went towards it

[cedar sinew]

if Luffy did the same thing as Momo and if Jean Bart also has VOAT, then he would've heard the same message @warm hollow

[sand robin]

Luffy learn voip technology
*Voat

[cedar sinew]

no one on the sub heard any message

[warm hollow]

if he did the same thing, yes?

[cedar sinew]

you're the one saying he did the same thing

[warm hollow]

Maybe he did something different to give the sos because none of them have voat

[modest skiff]

yeah we don't really know

[cedar sinew]

you started this off by saying Jean bart has voat

[warm hollow]

That was more of a joke tho, after that we were arguing if they could make out what he said

[modest skiff]

they definitely couldn't make out what he said since they weren't even sure what they heard

[cedar sinew]

well this channel is for serious discussion only so I'm going to take everything you say seriously

yeah they couldn't. That's the point I was making

[modest skiff]

yeah and i agree with you

[warm hollow]

It's like you're telling me in advance that you'll take any bait I throw

[cedar sinew]

so you were baiting?

[modest skiff]

i mean why would you bait? that's just being a dick and most people aren't dicks. we have no reason to assume you would bait. please don't

[warm hollow]

No, after the initial joke I've been serious

[cedar sinew]

then why mention baiting.

[warm hollow]

Bro do I need to explain that too

Yknow what nevermind that

[cedar sinew]

don't bait in here. Everything anyone says in this channel is considered serious. Otherwise you'll be punished accordingly.
I have no reason to assume you were baiting

[warm hollow]

Forget I ever mentioned baiting

[cedar sinew]

cool

[crisp marsh]

When was the channel description added

[cedar sinew]

like 4 months ago

[bold gull]

is there a channel where is possible to shipost and talk about not-so-serious theories?

[grizzled fog]

#manga

[junior cape]

Sanji is gonna kick Queen's shit in. Meanwhile, Zoro is gonna have tons of broken bones and is basically out for good. Chopper's side effects are gonna rear their ugly head when he's trying to treat Zoro's wounds. Marco will eventually lose to King. Dogstorm will beat Jack. Finally, Luffy will meet up with Yamato to beat the shit out of Kaido, and either Yamato or Big Mom will land the final blow. These are my predictions

[ancient vault]

Inu is dying next

The gray panel theory is about to come true

[grizzled fog]

Gray panel theory?

Interest piqued. Elaborate

[dusky acorn]

Inu vs Jack will serve a different purpose than Inu straight up winning in a duel, that's all I can confidentially say on that matter

If having a mink king beat Jack was going to happen, that result was basically already achieved on the rooftop

So either a new dynamic is added, or Jack wins, or the fight is interrupted

[weak arrow]

right b4 they engage kaido, oden, inu, kiku, kinemon, and kanjuro i think have their portraits greyed

oh ashura douji

[grizzled fog]

Ohhh i think I’ve heard that

Not a bad theory actually, I’d say there’s a good chance of Inu being the mink that dies

[weak arrow]

kanjuro gonna live

[grizzled fog]

Oh nvm

Was hoping raizo was grey

[waxen light]

[pure raven]

Sadly he isn’t

[split hornet]

Just remembered doffys speech when he talked about the d clan about where are they hiding, "who will betray who"
I think

[olive coyote]

I have seen many r wondering that how the heck did kaido know about joy boy

I am hoping that shanks may have stated that when he clashed with kaido

[pure raven]

Well it can be

But still

[tranquil mesa]

hoping kaido's flashback involves god valley, might explain the joyboy references

[pure raven]

I don't think they clashed they probably drank some sake

[olive coyote]

😂

[pure raven]

Nah

[oak mural]

ye someone will with d will betray the other d memebers

but this time it might be diff

[split hornet]

Probably law

[oak mural]

i doubt law ,he will never betray luffy and co

[pure raven]

What about bb

He shure is

[oak mural]

ye bb ,but we dont know what he wants he said he wants to be top of the world ie strongest person

[tranquil mesa]

also, anyone else thinking of what the endgame is for kaido and big mom? i can't imagine they'd just be defeated and sent to impel down, especially big mom who's consistently been a villain throughout all of part 2. feel like them being associated with rocks and being aware of the celestial dragons, they might end up being allies in the final war? could be dumb theory idk

[oak mural]

kaido will be killed regardless imo

[pure raven]

No I guess big mom will escape

[oak mural]

kaido wants a warrior death

[pastel summit]

Both will have to be killed or otherwise prevented from continuing as pirates. I don't think there's any allying or coming back to final war for either of these 2.

[oak mural]

^ if luffy and co kill kaido, bm might escape and get killed by bb mostly

[pure raven]

Their era is over so 👋 👋 big mom and kaido

[pure raven]

I doubt that

[pastel summit]

yeah that too. especially with marco's comment, their relevance is over after this arc. definitely won't be relevant in the final war.

yeah almost guaranteed if BM escapes she gets killed by BB imo.

[oak mural]

if big mom isnt killed in wano she will be killed in her island by bb ,he wants the ponegliph

[pure raven]

We don't know yet his motives

So saying that is irrelevant for now

[hollow viper]

Her crew though, I don't think they will just disband

[pastel summit]

her crew might do their own thing, who knows. a lot of them stayed because it's better to be part of BMs crew than on their own.

maybe a lot of them felt obliged to stay because family. We don't really know what they will do until they do it. Still don't think it means she won't die, or be permanently removed from the story in some way.

[hollow viper]

You think there is time for Luffy to go to WCI again and challenge BM, as he said?

[pastel summit]

not a chance. pointless.

[hollow viper]

Yep

I guess BB just attacks their territory then

Wouldn't be the first yonko crew remnants he subdues

If every big power in the world is making a power grab, then I guess Shanks will do something at some point

[pure raven]

She won't disband I guess if so then their can be internal conflict 4 next leader

[junior cape]

OH SHIT that is some foreshadowing and a HALF

And the best part is that it's coming true

[split hornet]

He said himself later they'll become enemies after forming alliance, and law is also searching for the meaning of the D, so he could change after knowing the truth

Basically you can only betray when having an alliance etc

[oak mural]

hes changed ,law would never betray luffy unless oda wants to have some twist

but law is a imp guy cuz of his df

[mellow sapphire]

Man

If Kiku and Kin die but Kanjuro has to live with his betrayal as the last of the Kurozumi clan that would be really poetic

Also I think Luffy will challenge Big Mom again but that will be after the series is over

Luffy doesn't need to beat her to become King he just needs to complete Roger's challenge and reach the end

[somber sphinx]

1015||what if Law took out all the hearts of all the raid members and stored them somewhere safe. so when kinemon is stabbed thru the heart, its not there. so KINEMON is alive||

[sturdy hound]

@night jewel ^

Would that make you happy

[night jewel]

no

i don't think law did that lmao, would be pretty weird and a genuine asspull because there is zero indication of that

also, his brain was probably destroyed, organs ruptured, removing the heart wouldnt save kin

[sturdy hound]

Did people who had their hearts out have a whole in their chest ?

[night jewel]

yeah

a square shaped hole

[errant oxide]

Not always though

[waxen light]

who didn't?

[fathom matrix]

This may sound like a weird idea, but could it be that the "regular" conquorers haki people have been using, is tied with observation, as in, the ability to overwhelm someone with a strong power, can be executed with either sight or force?

and so we have seen the observation side, and only now we're seeing the armament side?

[errant oxide]

Go back and watch Punk Hazard, they didn’t always have a piece of their chest missing. I thought it was weird, I would go back but I don’t have time right now.

[wide current]

i havent seen any theories on what the one piece is

yall got any interesting ones?

[fathom matrix]

cause I think observation is the easiest to learn, as luffy and coby unintentionally used it a lot of the times, and enel and his priests have called it montra and seemed to use it pretty easily, and it seemed like future sight observation was tricky, but Luffy was able to do it over time, and soon enough, get a better hang with it.

So wouldn't it make sense maybe that the shockwave that knocks people out is the obervation side, but the new black sparks we've been seeing, is practically the armement side? (as that seems to be hardest one to learn).

IDK, just throwing out an idea

[errant oxide]

There are literally tons of no name marines who have shown to have armament and not many to have observation

[pure raven]

this is one of the stupidest things ive ever heard

[fathom matrix]

While I could agree on that, we don't know if they can use both or just one over the other. But I still think that observation is the easiest to learn, as it was shown to be the most used and the most awakened.

[errant oxide]

But we’ve seen many more people use armament than observation…

Not that it matters at all which is harder

[fathom matrix]

you can still used observation without always executing a ting or red eyed effect

like how you can use armament without the black coat of arms

[errant oxide]

I’m sorry… what?

I don’t understand what you’re saying there but anyways, I really don’t see how you are connecting the two to conquerors

[brave silo]

since armament has been introduced properly the depiction always shows a black coat. the only time armament haki without black coat was before it was introduced

[fathom matrix]

I was just throwing out an idea that conquerors could be executed 2 ways, where the shockwave that knocks out people via a stare was the observation side, as it seemed like the easiest form to learn and awaken randomly, like how Luffy used conquerors at random times, and with using conquerors for physical attacks, I assumed that was a second way to execute it, and you most likley can learn armament without observation, but it seems like the hardest one to learn, and so learning advances armament moves would be tougher too.

And that conquerors could be more of an upgrade to the 2 other forms, than just something by itself (though I also understand that it's tied to the voices of all things too, but I think combat wise, it's use in those 2 ways)

Also yeah @brave silo I know that in the beginning Oda probably didn't think of the black coat of arms, but later on it's shown that you can still use that sort of haki, without the hardening (showing that you don't always need a visual or sound effect to show you using types of haki). I should have explained that better (and I understand the coat of arms is stronger, but it's not always needed to just use that kind of haki in general).

[errant oxide]

I think you should go watch the training with Rayleigh

You could learn quite a bit and clear up some of the confusion you have

[proven copper]

if ever Zeus was the one who fuse with nami's climatact, does that mean an explanation how things consume devil fruit will be explain? but ofc, Zeus was not a DF, just a power of a DF.

[rugged flower]

Since luffy is drowning he is waiting for jinbei at wano so is jinbei going to save luffy?

[night jewel]

we dont allow any mention of editor comments and whatnot here, for more info regarding our spoiler policy check out #old-channel-info @teal bay

[teal bay]

oh sorry my bad

[night jewel]

npnp

[fresh galleon]

have you read the latest chapter?

[rugged flower]

not yet I'll read it today

[oak mural]

read it u will know who saved luffy

[last void]

Gear 5 When?

[split hornet]

Do you guys think you can only beat conqueror's haki with conqueror's ? Like you can also defend with it.
Even after Luffy learning "ryou" he couldn't damage Kaido enough

[visual merlin]

nah, you can win without it

it might be hard but it's definitely possible

[split hornet]

Yeh that's why Kaido said only the strongest can use it
And the 5 that can fight him
Can't wait to see shanks use it 🥲

[somber sphinx]

i think we saw shanks use it already

when WB and shanks met, he damaged the ship with his COC

[pure raven]

I think you'd need to see Mihawk and if he has CoC or not

[split hornet]

Think big chance he does

[pure raven]

I agree

Anyone remember why the WG wanted Moria dead?

[weak arrow]

failure of a warlord. Wasn't up to par

[pure raven]

feels like too easy of a response but okay

[weak arrow]

Luffy beat him, just like he beat Croc, but they couldn't replace him immediately because they wanted his strength for Marineford.

[digital epoch]

this is really clever, I think

[last void]

But he became a Disappointment in the Marineford War

Even Hancock who did Absolutely nothing and even Helped the enemy was not dismissed

[fathom matrix]

Plus, I think the fact that he summond a bunch of zombeis made from marine soliders, wasn't a smart or ethical scenery for the marines, I mean, can you imagine? "THIS JUST IN! BAD ENOUGH THEY'RE HIRING PIRATES, BUT ALLOWING THEIR SOLIDERS TO BECOME WALKING CORPSES TO FIGHT?"

The WG and marines are two faced

Hell, can you imagine if the cameras were still on and they saw Akainu attempt to magma fist Coby?

They would have had to cover it up saying "Oh uh, he was a pirate spy for the red haired pirates" or "he accidently got in the way of akainu and shank's fight"

[sturdy hawk]

Imu wanted him dead so idk if we know for sure

[fathom matrix]

what?

I don't think Imu wanted Coby dead

[sturdy hawk]

Meant moria

[fathom matrix]

Oh ya meant moria

sorry, most recent message confusion. Yeah. I don't think it was even Imu's decision, I think the Gorusei decided on it

[sturdy hawk]

Gorosei take orders from Imu pretty sure, but here is the page

[fallow knot]

But why wg wanted moria dead? Maybe it was kaido

[slow sandal]

much likely

[sturdy hawk]

No, "someone higher up" means higher in position than the fleet admiral, which takes orders from the CDs

[slow sandal]

cant wait for 1016

[fallow knot]

Can't see any reason for tht

[sturdy hawk]

It says in the page I posted

[slow sandal]

Hoping next chapter we see all strawhats

[fallow knot]

It didn't mention wg

[sturdy hawk]

"Who sent you? Sengoku?" "Nope, someone higher up"

Sengoku was fleet admiral, meaning Celestial dragons sent him

[fallow knot]

Can't sure of it

[weak arrow]

Yeah, the most likely answer is either the Gorosei or Imu giving commands to the gorosei.

[fallow knot]

I m not denying it. But I can't see a reason for tht

[lilac mirage]

His lost to luffy?

[fallow knot]

Seriously. Then all the Marines should have die because they can't kill luffy in marineford war

[lilac mirage]

Warlord is a different thing, remember what happened with croco boy

[fallow knot]

Same for cp9

[weak arrow]

Being a warlord is a status symbol. They need to be portrayed as unbeatable because they are one of the 3 great powers

[fallow knot]

Lucy' rank upgraded to cp0. He also lost to luffy

[weak arrow]

And yeah, the marines tried to kill cp9 after their failure

Well maybe not kill, but capture

[fallow knot]

I m just saying of gorosei sent the message then it should be a better reason

[weak arrow]

I mean maybe it inherently does. Maybe the shadow fruit has great potential so Gorosei/Imu wanted it “off the board” so to speak. And now BB is going to use Moria for whatever they may have feared. But on the surface level, it’s because he was weak and they didn’t want his loss to Luffy getting out

[oak mural]

wasnt he off grid for 2 years then returned to cp0 ?

[weak arrow]

We don’t know for how long, but the marines chased him down trying to capture him.

[fallow knot]

It should be a greater reason if wg wants him dead

The best example is doflamingo himself

[weak arrow]

It doesn’t have to be. It could be

[lilac mirage]

I think that's all we can say looking at the the given info.

[weak arrow]

You mean the example where Doflamingo states he’s waiting for his assassin?

[fallow knot]

Yup

[weak arrow]

So you have moria, lucci, and doflamingo all going to be killed because of them failing. Doflamingo with the added benefit of having secret knowledge

Seems like a consistent pattern to me.

[fallow knot]

Thts not I m saying thts they r saying

I m saying if wg wants moria dead it's not bcoz of his defeat from luffy

[weak arrow]

It’s certainly possible. As I stated earlier, it could be because of some hidden potential of the shadow fruit. But on the surface, which makes sense given everything else in the story, he was ordered to be killed to cover up his defeat to Luffy.

[reef grotto]

his brain wasn't destroyed lmao did you see him in the last chapter

heads don't just explode from blunt attacks in one piece

[pure raven]

I’m looking forward to seeing how Yamato does against kaido, would be a good way to see how strong she is compared the worst generation that clashed with him

[pure raven]

Could be the Gorosei/Im

Celestial Dragon's aren't the most tactical minded people but the Gorosei and Im both are above Sengoku in terms of status in the WG

[queen arrow]

the wg is just mean to Moria

[pure raven]

I don't think the WG would just purposfully off Moria without good reason. "He was too weak" feels like a bad excuse given that his power is extremely useful in just killing people and making armies and most ppl know the WG has no qualms about unethical shit so for the top in charge ppl to decide he needs to be taken out is quite strange

[queen arrow]

it's most certainly just about their reputation, having another warlord fall to Straw Hat Luffy looks bad for them

it's what they sent Kuma to warn him about, the difference is that they didn't have a excuse to make Moria disappear from history by sending him to level 6 like they had for Crocodile, so they decided to just kill him in secret after the war

[pure raven]

Does the WG really care about that though? Idk reputation seems like a weird concern atm since they are shown to have done multiple things available to the public eye to see like showing up at the beck and call of the celestial dragons which basically everyone hates

[queen arrow]

they have to balance the bad rep with something, otherwise countries might see no benefit in joining them which would eventually break the wg apart

so they balance it with the showcase of power to enforce justice, the Marines, their 3 big bases (Impel Down, Enies Lobby and Marineford) and the Warlords

[pure raven]

I thought the continuous threat of being destroyed by pirates was why most countries are in it

[split hornet]

Don't think that much better but all flying six were sent after her
Didnt expect the six being held up by strawhatts tho
Perhaps yamatos df is very effective against Kaido, with her claws

[queen arrow]

yeah but they have to show that they have the means to do it, so their forces failing is bad for that

if the forces they have to protect countries from pirates fail, you might as well not join them so you can save the heavenly tribute money for more important stuff

[pure raven]

what makes you think she has df?

[weak arrow]

She grew sharp teeth. It either points to her mother being a fishman or a devil fruit, the latter being more likely

[queen arrow]

she was about to transform against Sasaki

[split hornet]

^

Imagine her being mythical tiger

[weak arrow]

panel for reference

[split hornet]

But the rest was off screen 😢 hope anime shows what happened

[cyan berry]

nah it wasn't offscreened, she just stopped the transformation and reverted back

the anime wouldn't help much here

[pure raven]

Did sasaki look sorta scared or surprised at her beginning to transform? Like “ damn here it comes she’s gonna waste me”

[weak arrow]

Maybe a mixture of both. Maybe he's never seen Yamato transform

[split hornet]

Ah alright

[reef grotto]

yamato's been in handcuffs for like, 10 years?

[weak arrow]

Yeah, but not seastone

[muted ember]

Here's a manga theory. What is the "expanding Kid's fruit" Oda was talking about? (in the 99 SBS)

[reef grotto]

uh, was it really not seastone?

[teal bay]

it can refer to gorosei too they are higher then sengoku

[reef grotto]

if it weren't seastone she could just break them normally

[weak arrow]

They would explode and leave her handless

same as what luffy and hyo wore on their necks

[reef grotto]

oh right

[weak arrow]

and we know those didnt have seastone cause luffy could stretch

[reef grotto]

maybe they are different versions, but then again luffy didn't feel weak when he touched them

oh wait a second, I also thought that the ones in the prison were made of seastone

[weak arrow]

The regular handcuffs were

not the exploding ones

[reef grotto]

why would kaido put handcuffs on yamato if they don't restrain her at all

[pure raven]

Luffy's built up a small resistance towards it and they made mention that the seastone cuffs in the jail had varying strengths

[weak arrow]

Because they do restrain her. She doesn't have advanced armament so she cant get them off

or at least not the same technique luffy can use

[reef grotto]

she can move her arms just fine

[weak arrow]

Yeah, and if she leaves the island, it explodes

[reef grotto]

right

[weak arrow]

He still plans on letting Yamato rule New Onigashima. He doesn't just see Yamato as a prisoner.

[pure raven]

Couldn't Luffy theoratically break these handcuffs?

[weak arrow]

He alreaady did

[pure raven]

Oh, yeah

[pseudo citrus]

physical chains: broken
metaphorical chains: working on it

[split hornet]

Wonder if Yamato could be danger for Kaido somehow

[teal bay]

the one kid and luffy had in hands were seastones

they one hyo and luffy had in hands were the explosive ones

[pure raven]

Yamato coulda had special ones, both sea stone and explosive

[pseudo citrus]

would be interesting. yamato got their ass handed to them every time in the past, and they know the "1v1..." thing, so it's interesting they're still facing kaido anyway. could just be stupidity, though.

[crystal quiver]

have you guys heard the theory that Burgess could be a 3 eyed human

what do you guys think?

[forest saffron]

Black beard might 3rd party kaido and kill him and take his fruit sence he dosent have conquers haki he will use a scary zoan fruit as conquers haki and he as quake has armament haki and dark as observation haki sence it can sense other devil fruit users

[amber oar]

you mean necks

[pure raven]

Burgess is fodder I don’t think oda would make him anything special

[fallow knot]

He will get his own special fruit

[pure raven]

We don’t know that

[last halo]

Yeah, Oda wouldn't make of Blackbeard's main crewmate anything special...

[pure raven]

Main crew mate who is weak and fodder lol

[fallow knot]

I think he will be a match up for sanji or jinbei

[last halo]

weak

Only fought strong opponents

[grizzled fog]

Losing to sabo makes you weak now apparently

[pure raven]

But he didn’t even hold his own against sabo not one bit

[grizzled fog]

Sabo is one of the strongest characters in the series man

[cedar sinew]

he did hold his own

reread the colosseum fight

[grizzled fog]

Also Burgess is likely to get a devil fruit later

[fallow knot]

I m wondering the what happened to whitebeard commanders who got stuck in Blackbeard darkness

[pure raven]

No way he held his own

[last halo]

Jinbei tied with Ace, does that make him weak?

[pure raven]

BB even stopped his crew from going up against ace ore time skip

Pre^ that included burgess

[last halo]

Because he wanted to fight him

[pure raven]

And jimbei is significantly weaker on land

[last halo]

[pure raven]

He stopped them because they were no match for him

[grizzled fog]

He had water right next to him

[pure raven]

BB is not above letting his crew jump in like he did with white beard

Idk I still think burgess is weak as hell and wouldn’t even match sanji

[cedar sinew]

@pure raven

Sabo even says "you're not going to make it that easy"

[grizzled fog]

In his current state sure, but again, Burgess is highly likely to get a devil fruit

[pure raven]

I think sabo was talking about that armor

[cedar sinew]

no he wasn't

lmfao

regardless, Burgess was a genuine opponent to Sabo

[pure raven]

Opponent is a strong word; Burgess was Fodder at best

What good fruit is even out there that we know of that burgess could get, all the power fruits are held by strong folk

[pure raven]

Burgess got kicked around by sabo big time

[visual merlin]

there are a lot more fruits than you think, and oda can always make up a new one

[pure raven]

Yeah you’re right lol

[cedar sinew]

opponent isn't a strong word, read the manga instead of twisting it to fit your narrative.
Him losing later on doesn't mean he was fodder at best.

[pure raven]

Because sabo was so messed up by burgess right? Lol I don’t think sabo even broke a sweat kicking him around

[cedar sinew]

he wasn't messed up fighting fujitora either

[visual merlin]

I would agree he wasn't much of a challenge for sabo, but burgess definitely isn't fodder from this fight

[cedar sinew]

fodder also implies there's no narrative importance

[visual merlin]

or "weak as hell"

[cedar sinew]

there was narrative importance for Burgess

from him we can know one of BB's goals, we can know a potential method of stealing them from current users, and it later leads on to him finding and attacking the literal HQ of revolutionaries

[pure raven]

So we was used to lead to those things, dosnt mean he ain’t fodder in combat

[cedar sinew]

this is what you started with

that you don't think he'll have narrative importance because he lost to Sabo which makes him fodder

[pure raven]

Yeah I don’t think he is a 3 eyed dude, which is supposed to be special to BM. Dosnt change that I think the dude is fodder, got slapped down by sabo easily

[devout abyss]

I NEED A ONE PIECE FREIND!

[visual merlin]

Sabo, the second strongest revolutionary

[devout abyss]

To talk about manga

[visual merlin]

yeah that doesn't really make him fodder

[cedar sinew]

You're making the connection that he is fodder therefore he won't have narrative importance

[pure raven]

We haven’t seen anything from him that shows he ain’t fodder only seen him get kicked around

[cedar sinew]

first of all he isn't fodder but even if he was, he still showed narrative importance

you jjust agreed he did

[visual merlin]

so you assume the guy who's at least the 10th strongest of a yonko crew is fodder?

[cedar sinew]

so why are you arguing he won't in the future

[visual merlin]

how does that work

[pure raven]

Yes I’m saying he is fodder

[visual merlin]

So he lost to sabo, but knowing he's a commander

[pure raven]

Yonkos can have weak members

[visual merlin]

we already have reason to believe he's strong right?

[visual merlin]

indeed, but again, he's at least the 10th strongest

[pure raven]

Burgess could have sentimental value to BB

[visual merlin]

he wouldn't be part of those weak members

[visual merlin]

you don't have reason to believe that

he's the 10 strongest at least, if you disagree explain what makes you think that

[pure raven]

No hand no reason to believe that I just think he is weak from what I have seen of him

[visual merlin]

Okay, so you agree he's at least the 10th strongest?

[pure raven]

Idc that it was sabo who he lost to lol

Idk how many peeps bb even has in his crew I don’t really keep track of things like that

[visual merlin]

If you have no reason to disagree, you must agree he's at least the 10th strongest of that crew, wouldn't that already make him strong?

[last halo]

If Burgess was such fodder, Sabo would've quickly defeated him in one shot and would've moved to stall Doflamingo

[cedar sinew]

Labeling people fodder and refusing to actually discuss about them narratively is so counterproductive to discussion.
Sabo could've fought ANYONE at Dressrosa and would've been able to beat almost everyone without much trouble. The term itself is relative and doesn't matter at all in the current discussion.

[pure raven]

So y’all prolly think that chopper and nami are not fodder either

[visual merlin]

doesn't matter, if you're the at least the 10th strongest of a yonko crew, only seems fair to think they are strong, and if he gets destroyed by sabo that just shows how strong sabo is

[visual merlin]

they aren't part of a yonko crew, but no they aren't fodder either

[teal bay]

yes sorry mistake

[cedar sinew]

I don't know what the Burgess 3 eye theory is in detail, but he could easily play a large role in BB's crew.
He's 1st division commander for a reason, he's highly trusted by BB.
The fact that he got beaten by Sabo doesn't deny any of that, ther's a lot of potential for Burgess in the story

[pure raven]

Chopper is food man

Trusted dosnt mean strong, it could just mean bb trusts him to not slit his throat

[visual merlin]

Is at least the 10th strongest BB pirate, easily won his block, and was probably the strongest person there outside of sabo

sabo beating him doesn't make him weak or fodder, that just says something about sabo

[visual merlin]

do you believe that?

[pure raven]

But it also makes burgess look weak dosnt it? Because all we have seen from him is getting beat

[visual merlin]

no, it doesn't

[pure raven]

To me it does make him look weak

[visual merlin]

Because we already have enough to say he's strong, and we saw him shine against the other contestants

losing to the second strongest revo doesn't make him weak, let alone make him weak

[pure raven]

If BB valued strength he woulda executed burgess for making them look bad

[visual merlin]

???

[pure raven]

Who was even in his round that was anyone

[last halo]

I think we could compare it to the recent Kaido vs Luffy fight. Kaido is still visibly stronger than Luffy, as Sabo was compared to Burgess, but that doesn't make Luffy fodder or weak, as he was still capable of fighting him for some minutes, the same way Burgess was against Sabo.

Burgess is also getting a devil fruit, as the Blackbeard pirates are shown to hunt devil fruits. He's already strong without it, so he would be even stronger, especially if he were to get a good fruit like Jozu's, for example.

[pure raven]

Yeah I don’t think currently burgess is someone I would consider strong, maybe if he gets a good fruit, also could be wrong but I don’t think we saw him use haki against sabo or in that arc lol if he didn’t means he dosnt have it and what kinda commander can’t even use that

[grizzled fog]

He does have haki

[grizzled fog]

And we saw him use it even ^

[pure raven]

Isn’t that just the color of his armor

[visual merlin]

no

[pure raven]

Okay I see it, so maybe not fodder but I still think he’s weak sauce

[pure raven]

No way he's weak Dragon trained him all along I assume

[sand sail]

Funny you should mention, none of Kaido's commanders have used it so far

Most of his strongest people, in fact

[grizzled fog]

Ulti is the only one we know has used it right? Or did she even use it??

[pure raven]

She used observation against Nami

[sand sail]

Yeh Ulti's used it, Yamato too. I wanna say maybe Page One?

[pure raven]

Sabo is supposed to be an equal/rival to Luffy and Ace and seeing as how he's the number 2 and probably stronger than a good majority of the revolution

I'm down to believe that atm minus his fire fruit adjustments, he's probably stronger than luffy

[sand sail]

He can't possibly be stronger than Luffy right now

[pure raven]

Yea

[grizzled fog]

I reckon he’s close

[sand sail]

He honestly can't possibly be close at this point

[pure raven]

I'd say he was stronger than before-wano Luffy

[sand sail]

Maybe, sure. Luffy as he is now has left Sabo in the dust

Maybe at Dressrosa, Sabo was the bigger one there

[pure raven]

Yea I agree with u

[grizzled fog]

I think this is a bit unreasonable tbh bean, I think sabo was stronger in dressrosa and he got a HUGE powerup in the form of the mera mera, it’s not unreasonable at all to say he could be kinda close to luffy.

[sand sail]

It's entirely unreasonable to say he's anywhere near where Luffy is at this point in time. Sabo was strong, but putting him even over Luffy at Dressrosa is still a leap we'd have to take. Putting him anywhere even in the same league as Luffy as he is right now just wouldn't make sense

[pure raven]

i think all we need to see is Sabo using CoC coating then he's on par

[sand sail]

Because after getting the Mera Mera, he still wasn't even strong enough to push an admiral into an all out fight

[grizzled fog]

After he just got it sure

[sand sail]

Whereas Luffy just pushed Kaido pretty much into one, and that was before he got the conqueror's

[raven stratus]

eh, disagree, luffy gets lots of help. 1v1 gets dumpstered

[sand sail]

Yeah, I'm sure he's mastered the fruit plenty by now, but the Mera Mera isn't going to take him from being unable to push an admiral much to fighting evenly with an Emperor for half an hour

[grizzled fog]

I’m fine with putting Sabo a bit below the admirals still, while luffy is pretty much at their level.

[sand sail]

Luffy's boosts, on the other hand, did take him that far

[pure raven]

We can't say that you need CoCting to beat Kaido

[grizzled fog]

I don’t think I said he was luffy’s equal, just that he was kinda close.

[sand sail]

Yeah, I'm saying he's not even close anymore, Luffy's leaps and bounds ahead of him at this point

[grizzled fog]

Gonna have to disagree

[sand sail]

Do you have anything to back it up? Just going by feats, Sabo hasn't really shown much more than commanders generally would so far

And that's after getting the Mera Mera still

[grizzled fog]

The way he absolutely destroyed Burgess, Sabo seemingly having advanced armament, and having trained a bunch with the mera mera since dressrosa. Yes, but I’m not interesting in debating this when you really don’t have an open mind here at all

[pure raven]

I think this is gonna evolve into a speculation on how powerful the revolutionaries are which given that Luffy's father is atm the most wanted man in the world makes that come a bit into question

[icy sapphire]

He embarrassed burgess

[pure raven]

Sabo is strong and all he got raised by Dragon who should be one of the strongest people in OP

But I can't currently compare him with today's Luffy

Actually where would we put burgess in terms of strength cause the announcer guy called out that he was one of BB's 10 commander ppl

[sand sail]

I have an open mind, that's why I'm asking for evidence to back it up. He didn't absolutely destroy Burgess, he actually had to fight Burgess for a good while, and before the Mera Mera was matching him in strength, not overpowering him

He didn't have advanced armament it seemed either, since his didn't blow through Burgess's, it just shattered his armor without overpowering the blow very much

[grizzled fog]

He was definitely not matching him, he literally shatters his armor here. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/477571830941614080/851168932470980639/Screen_Shot_2021-06-06_at_11.41.22_AM.png

[sand sail]

So, if he has it, Burgess's is almost as strong. Not really good in his favor there. Since we have a slowmode here, we can talk about it in #also-manga if you'd like too

He shatters his armor, and Burgess doesn't move an inch

So yeah, he absolutely matched him there. The armor just wasn't up to snuff, lol

[pure raven]

Would you call what Sabo does advanced armament? Cause we do see him (anime anyway which Oda helps with) that Sabo uses haki in a way that goes beyond brute force and sort injects it into whatever to destroy which to me sounds a bit like advanced armament

or at the very least an advanced technique

[grizzled fog]

I would totally call it advanced armament, the way the armor shatters starting from the outside, where sabo isn’t even touching seems like more than just grip strength to me

[sand sail]

Except in that very same arc, we see multiple people with a similar technique

That's not a haki thing, he explains what he's doing. He's attacking some specific weak point to everything he touches

[pure raven]

Yes now I remember

[grizzled fog]

Who else did something similar?

[sand sail]

The entire Happo Navy crew

[grizzled fog]

That’s really not the same

[sand sail]

It's the same, their fighting style attacks from the inside out with vibrations

[reef grotto]

he's getting the diamond fruit and he'll be zoro's final opponent

[icy sapphire]

Oooo

[pure raven]

Damn just gonna shit on my man jozu like that?

[grizzled fog]

It’s not even like sabo is breaking the part he’s immediately touching either, it literally starts breaking starting from the outside and going in

[icy sapphire]

I like that but I want shiryu or whatever his name is with the suke suke to be his last fight

[pure raven]

I do wanna see more whitey bay honestly; top waifu material

[reef grotto]

I mean, shiryu is pretty much guaranteed to go against sanji

[sand sail]

We don't see how it starts breaking at all

[pure raven]

This sounds like some sort of early-Ryuo implementation in op

[grizzled fog]

That’s most definitely not a guarantee

[icy sapphire]

Makes sense I see why

[sand sail]

It's completely whole in one panel then shattered in another

Sabo even comments on how Burgess is actually a strong contender in that very page

[pure raven]

how much of the anime sequence can we take as being true to the story cause again Oda helps dictate that so I think watching the anime may give answers

[sand sail]

Manga trumps anime every time, can't use filler to support an argument lol

[grizzled fog]

You can even see the part with the holes right where sabo’s hand is isnt totally broken here bean, it starts outwards

[pure raven]

I'm talking about the battle specifically

[sand sail]

The part with the holes is what Sabo was pushing against the entire time, vemqi

Where Sabo was touching is literally what's flying around him right there

[grizzled fog]

The part directly under his hand doesn’t break first there

[sand sail]

Yes, it does

[grizzled fog]

You can see the part with the holes right under his hand intact, zoom in.

[sand sail]

The part under his hand is the largest part, and all we see is that the entire elbow armor is shattered

[grizzled fog]

Colored for reference

[sand sail]

Yeah, the whole armor shatters at once

There's no sequence going from the outside in, and that's also not actually how the armament works even in that case lol

[visual merlin]

I don't think Sabo's comment means that much either, just saying they won't just let him take it and leave

[sand sail]

But you can clearly see there, the only bit with holes in it is what Sabo is touching directly, and that's the only part that's flying off of the armor

[grizzled fog]

One of the holes is visible there, and you can see the part under sabo’s hand is a bit more elevated than the rest, because it’s one of the first layers of the armor and it hasn’t broken

[sand sail]

What you're saying literally cannot be the case, dude

The only part of his armor that is breaking is what Sabo's touching, and they're all massive pieces flying off

[pure raven]

watching the anime clip of it specifically; seems like a haki vs haki clash and jesus's thing got injected/cracked into

[grizzled fog]

Anime clip is irrelevant

[sand sail]

If it were advanced, that's how it would break either way, there's no like special different kind of explosion with it

Things don't implode

[grizzled fog]

It’s not the only part, the spikes and the Golden bit at the very end break off too

[sand sail]

You're right, all of the armor on his arm shatters

Well, the majority, if not all

[grizzled fog]

In this panel it seems to me that the only part of the TOP layer of his armor that’s intact, is what sabo is touching

[sand sail]

You're still not understanding; that wouldn't change no matter what the scenario is

First off, it's not, we can see the bit with the holes actually broken off. But second, advanced armament wouldn't keep any layers in tact

Everything explodes, there's nothing saved or bypassed

[grizzled fog]

The bit with the holes breaks too, I’m saying at the time of that panel the bit at the elbow where sabo is touching is still barely intact

[grizzled fog]

I drew an arrow here, you can make out one of the holes

[sand sail]

Yeh, the chunk in the air there is almost half the size of the bit of elbow we see

So that literally can't be a hole from it

[grizzled fog]

So what is it? It’s hard to make out but it seems like a hole to me

[sand sail]

It's just his elbow

Burgess wears massive elbow bands

Sabo shatters the entire thing all at once, and he just doesn't have it anymore

[grizzled fog]

🧐

[sand sail]

That's just after he breaks the ring with his Ryusoken(?)

You can see, he has the bands on his arm still, but the armored bits of it are all gone

[pure raven]

whatever u all are understamaiting bb. he will shine when he comes with full army. and accaultty dragon have to get in with his army to fight against bb. and my theory is that bb is now forming his army to get rule over all the world (or atleast to destroy the marines)

[grizzled fog]

Who’s underestimating BB

[pure raven]

He's a jerk but smart too

[rain rivet]

i feel like we might have another timeskip

[pure raven]

i disagree; i feel we'll be getting a major flashback to the void century, ancient kingdom, and probably the founding of the D clan

[reef grotto]

it's too late for a timeskip

[rain rivet]

understandable

[noble hollow]

man i hope not i hope we find out what happened in mary geoise

while luffy decides what to do next

[noble hollow]

that would be dop

[rain rivet]

i disagree with you but also agree i think we might have major flashback of the rocks pirate

[teal bay]

i have a theory that might proof that dragon has something to do with a dragon Devil fruit

[modest skiff]

I think it will be even longer than the oden flash back

[rain rivet]

i think it would be too early to have a flashback for the D clan

[noble hollow]

but maybe too soon,i want to find that out firsthand when someone tells luffy about the will of d clan

[teal bay]

yeah

[reef grotto]

he clearly just has a wind/storm logia devil fruit

[pure raven]

not anytime soon

[noble hollow]

cus luffy at least from my understanind has no idea what will of d is

[pure raven]

I meant like probably later on in the story once we find the one piece is my guess on when we'll see that flashback

[noble hollow]

but law and bb are aweare of it

[teal bay]

what if he has a dragon devil fruit a dragon who can manipulate weather

[pure raven]

Cause Oda's not gonna have Oden write down literally everything about laugh tale and what they found there because it makes the journey effectively moot

[reef grotto]

we've already seen kaido who's a dragon, unlikely

maybe he has a storm paramecia

[teal bay]

still in making so i will post it later today ig

[rain rivet]

that is a theory which might be true since from loguetown

a lot of things in one piece is connected so if one thing is reveal i feel like a whole lot of things will be revealed

[noble hollow]

ye i would be surprised if it wont be weather related

[teal bay]

yeah and as they have said that ace had CoC so strong that there was no snowfall, it is Dragon the most wanted criminal and he does have CoC and his CoC is pretty strong too we can conclude that

[modest skiff]

Dude there is not nearly enough info to be saying clearly anything

[reef grotto]

it's him who saved luffy, he would've done something to protect his child

[teal bay]

can be his CoC too yk

[rain rivet]

yea

[cedar sinew]

dragon isn't confirmed to have coc

[reef grotto]

a coc induced storm? coc induced thunder? come on

[modest skiff]

Maybe, probably, but also totally possible not. And it could be all sorts of other powers that aren’t a logia. Storm drake, tons of possibilities

[reef grotto]

he needed to save luffy, so he had to use something precise

[teal bay]

well when Garp said he was born with it pretty much concludes it or what other way garp has to say something like that

[reef grotto]

not just uhhhh let's use conqueror's haki and hope a thunder hits him

[rain rivet]

https://tenor.com/view/luffy-buggy-onepiece-clapping-clap-gif-4815787

[cedar sinew]

what?

[teal bay]

CoC made snowfall stop

[reef grotto]

besides, if he'd used coc at that moment a lot of people would've fainted

[rain rivet]

yea

[fathom matrix]

I wouldn't be shocked if he was, as Garp did say "so he did enherit it" and I honestly doubt that Garp has it, he's powerful but you can still be strong and not CoC.

I can imagine since Garp doesn't want to go to the top or rise through the ranks/take control, that didn't make him a user of it

[teal bay]

give me a bit i am on phone and in washroom lmao i will find the pic once i get back to my system

[rain rivet]

is it just me or does anyone else thin think that kinemon or some of the red scabbards will die

[teal bay]

yes this

[cedar sinew]

some of them will die

[teal bay]

some of them will

[fathom matrix]

Honestly, I think they're all gonna die. I think the fact they're called "the red scabbards", they're baddly beaten and they're gonna be facing tough opponents, symbolises their deaths.

[reef grotto]

nah there's a panel that shows inusomething, kiku, kinemon and asura are gonna die

[rain rivet]

i disagree i think some would survive

wasn't kinemon stab by kaido

[modest skiff]

I have a totally different read. I don’t think anyone worth teaming up with Roger doesn’t have it. It’s clearly the highest form of power so far. I’ll be incredibly surprised if Garp doesn’t

[teal bay]

Yeah

[grizzled fog]

It’s possible roger himself didn’t even have it when he teamed up with Garp lol

[sand sail]

That's a strange mindset, that was 13 years before Roger was even shown first using it, and no one else in Wano who's helping Luffy has it either

[opaque notch]

Remember chapter 1 when luffy drown in the middle of ocean and shanks immediately know his pricise location and save him? Maybe luffy subconsciously project his location to shanks the same way he did in this chapter to law's crew..
Maybe that's why shanks really believe that luffy gonna be a big deal.. not only luffy spoke like rogers, but also has the ability similar to Rogers

[teal bay]

Ig garo has it and dragon and luffy tOo

[modest skiff]

True but it’s not like any of us know so I’m just saying by my estimation, Garp has it

[cedar sinew]

you're extremely overthinking it

[grizzled fog]

He wasn’t that far out shanks could just see him lol, there was a giant sea monster next to luffy anyway

[fathom matrix]

Like I said, you don't need to have it to be strong. Like, sure you may not be able to pull off a lot more moves, but it's not like lacking Coc, makes you weaker or unable to fight someone. Garp could have been just THAT strong without it.

[teal bay]

Yeah

[cedar sinew]

Shanks couldve just used CoO as well

[modest skiff]

While you are right we sure do see a lot of top tier folks who all just so happen to have it

[teal bay]

I mean garp don't even have a devil fruit too

[reef grotto]

kaido can use it and was fighting alongside xebec, as well as big mom and whitebeard, it'd be reeeeally weird if garp was the only one without conqueror's at that time

assuming xebec also had it

[teal bay]

Big mom has CoC too and so does WB ig

[reef grotto]

that's what I'm saying

[modest skiff]

What yeah he does lol

[fathom matrix]

true, but those are also ambitious people who want to rise to the top as well, like Kid lost against almost any yonko he fought, BUT he could still use it, as he also wanted to be the pirate king. Sengoku was the fleet admiral, Boa was the empress of amazon lilly and classified herself as the most beautiful woman in the world, Zoro wanted to be the world's greatest swordsman.

I think because Garp lacked that strive to be on top, or want to chase after a dream or be in a high position of power, he never really had it.

[teal bay]

Garp don't have a DF

[fathom matrix]

Heck, I can imagine if he rejected it saying "ARE YOU CRAZY? give it to someone else, like Kuzon or Sakazuki"

[tawdry bramble]

We don’t know what Garp wanted or if he achieved it in life.

[fathom matrix]

He wanted to be free in a sense, and he rejected being an admiral

he never seemed to have a goal of changing the marines and becoming a fleet admiral, cause you'd have to be the second to last highest marine, before then.

Yaknow what? I can imagine Coby having Coc. Like, his dream is to become an admiral of the Nazy, wouldn't surprise me if maybe that battle with Boa hancock he could have whilst trying to retrieve her, would have also unlocked his power.

[pure raven]

I dont see coby haki > Boa haki

[fathom matrix]

I wouldn't say he'd beat her

[modest skiff]

Garp isn’t an admiral because he didn’t want to report to CDs. He could have easily been an admiral

[fathom matrix]

Yeah, he could have been but because of that he didn't. He had no intension of rising the ranks. Sure the CDs gave it a bad taste in his mouth, but he seemed content and happy being a rank below

[pure raven]

I think youre forgetting a major bit of characterization

[modest skiff]

I would say he got as high as you can get without sucking dick and he won’t suck dick. You could argue that is a sign of strong will

[pure raven]

Garp also wants to set sail; whenever we see the admirals with the exception of Aokiji, they seem to just be lounging around until called upon to do a job or task and that type of sedentary life style isn't Garp's way

[modest skiff]

I thought Garp made a cannonball huge or something

[pure raven]

garp doesn't have one

[pure raven]

no garp is just that strong

[modest skiff]

Wtf lol I must have been dreaming. I thought he made the ball bigger. Maybe that was an anime thing

[cedar sinew]

nah it wasn't

he just throws it at high speed

[reef grotto]

things get bigger when they approach you, it's called linear perspective

[modest skiff]

So they just had a giant cannonball laying around? What am I misremembering?

[cedar sinew]

it wasn't giant

they were normal canon balls

[modest skiff]

Alright I have no idea where I got that from then ignore me xD

[sand sail]

No, you're right. He had a giant iron ball on a chain dragging under his ship

He just sailed with it, presumably

Not a cannon ball, it was bigger than the Sunny

But like Mai said, he didn't grow any, they were just there...for some reason

[modest skiff]

Ok thank you. This was during my painkillers back surgery so it’s not surprising I remembered wrong

[fathom matrix]

Yeah, he doesn't wanna work for or be a pet to a bunch of pot bellied, possibly imbread, slave owners. But I think if you subtract that part, he wouldn't be in any rush or need to become an admiral. And ya never really see him contemplate or get annoyed that he's not part of the big boys upstairs, but because of those damn CD's, he rejects it.

I think he doesn't have any major strive to be in any big positions, and being a CD pet if he became an admiral, just solidified that bad taste, and he was like "yeah, nah, if that's the case, I'm DEFINITELY, not wanting to an admiral"

[modest skiff]

In my mind he had cannonballs and made them huge so thank you for the correction

[fathom matrix]

well, that and having to protect them made him even more pissed off.

[pure raven]

I'm actually quite intrigued about how we haven't seen a half celestial dragon

[fathom matrix]

I don't think we even say like 3/4 of them

[pure raven]

He throws them

[teal bay]

he not liking CD's and dragon being against government i guess it has something to do with revolutionary army and a personal reason too ig

[teal bay]

he just uses his raw power to throw canon balls

[fathom matrix]

I'd say Garp's kinda in a bind. I think he's like the true piggy in the middle in all of this.

[teal bay]

he used a bigger ball

[teal bay]

yeah i mean dont respect them but as he is in navy he cant go against them

[fathom matrix]

He's like "the navy isn't perfect, but it beats being a pirate, and having a more dangerous and corruptive life"

[teal bay]

and he just wanna get those bad guys and do justice most of things he do or did was out of respect for sengoku and not bcs WG said so

[modest skiff]

Then headcanon for me is Garp uses this giant ball to stay in shape. Or at least 1 arm so he can do his famous punch

[errant nova]

Damn just caught up to 977 and it really is a reminder of how heavy this raid is… if it really fails I’ll be absolutely devastated. The stakes are so high!

Curious what would happen to the Zeus-tact if big mom dies

[sturdy hawk]

Raid isnt failing

[pure raven]

she's not gonna die

One piece villains never die

[teal bay]

Kaido,Orochi and big mom are one of the villians who should die and are necessary

[pure raven]

Orochi sure but I doubt he'll actually die just because it goes against the theme Oda's likely trying to set up

[rain rivet]

i think orochi has died

[weak arrow]

Fool you once... shame on Oda...

Fool you twice... shame on you

[tired osprey]

fool you thrice... shame on Adam

[tame pilot]

Imagine luffy dying at the end

[latent totem]

Jean bart got voice of all things.
He is joyboy friend

[light pond]

Dude this no dumb troll theories here

[modest skiff]

Have there been any notable times throughout one piece fandom where a commonly disregarded theory ended up true?

[latent totem]

Nah after rereading the previous chapters with voat.i came to this conclusion

Only special people can hear zunisha and sea king

Unless luffy not using voat which will not make sense q

Because he can't use haki when he is weak .so observation.haki is counted out of this

[modest skiff]

Do we know that only one person heard him? I thought the whole crew heard him

[latent totem]

I am assuming only Jean bart heard .Ifs whole crew did.
It's definitely something related to joyboy kaido mentioned last chapter

If it's voice of all things .this is completely new ability which we haven't seen before

[placid kite]

Yo what if the upstreams that sent Jaya to the sky wasn’t actually random chance

But it was Im trying to erase shandia with the water logia/ legendary weapon

maybe the government sent god valley up the sky

[novel zephyr]

If it was a weapon why can it be tracked based on science

[fallow ridge]

Luffy body lagging behind from his willpower/mind strength.

On the other ha d kaido has no willpower to live but body too stronk.

[worthy ember]

im thinking sanji gets blue flames

[green roost]

just thought of something.... so in chapter 1015 after we learn its luffys voice that spoke to momo, we pan back to him in the water again and his eyes, which were in knocked out state before (blank white eyes), were now obscured in darkness.....who else spoke telepathically to momo? zunisha did, its possible the eyes were obscured to later reveal to us that luffy had Zunisha-like eyes....momo didnt have these eyes when speaking the command to zunisha because he yelled it out loud vocally, not telepathically

[pastel summit]

are you trying to say the eyes are related to voat? I think they're just eyes.

[green roost]

i think maybe just related to speaking thru voat specifically, but it wouldnt be anything major, just an interesting visual effect

or at least, a visual indicator that telepathic communication is going

[teal bay]

sounds good

[wooden topaz]

like marco in phoenix mode ?

[worthy ember]

hmm

not exactly. his diable jambe is red flames. blue flame hotter than red flame. sanji is losing in his battle against queen. marco gives him some flame to heal him. and he tries using diable jambe. it becomes blue. much more powerful. somthing like this @wooden topaz. ive explained in more detail in #promote-yourself

[lilac mirage]

That ain't a bad idea

[ancient vault]

maybe they got that extra zoom 📷

[patent summit]

Why not black flames? Amaterasu? That would suit nicely with his raid suit

[worthy ember]

But then the question is how will he get those black flames. Can't really think of anything right now for that

[patent summit]

Yeah

But i also kinda like the idea for sanji to switch between colours of flames. Like dantes inferno. Imagine green diablo jambe granting sanji more speed, or purple granting him more durability and such

[sturdy hound]

@worthy ember pls refrain from mentioning other series material here

[worthy ember]

I'm not allowed to mark as spoilers for some sort of reference too?

[sturdy hound]

unfortunately not

[latent totem]

Heard some people say that law crew hear luffy because they were underwater but Roger crew were underwater in fmi and yet they couldnt hear sea king

[weary cliff]

Right. It seems there is more to it than that

[sturdy hound]

@mossy roverplese keep theories here serious

[mossy rover]

i am serious like 100% i have a whole background on how it will happen

[sturdy hound]

then share the info you have. it's better than just saying he will be back

so people dont misconstrue what you're tryna say

[mossy rover]

ok.

[thick sky]

Who will be back?

[mossy rover]

Enel will show up right after Luffy is done fighting Kaido. As we see he might be in Wano by this page. And when the Navy is showing up to Wano. I think he will unknowingly let the Straw Hats and which ever crew lives by starting his world to become the god of the sea. Now to show how powerful he got while on the moon i think he will fight. Greenbull and we would see the fight and how strong Enel has gotten ever seine he lost to plot armor. The reason why i think they would send GreenBull is because of 2 Yonkos and 7 member of the supernovas being in Wano. This may sound dumb but i think it's better then Blackbeard showing up to Wano taking Kadios devil fruit after he dies. Is all of this based off of one manga panel. Yes, Well this most likely not be real. Yes.

[teal bay]

For real bro??why will he help scabbards with their wounds?? That completely BS

[latent totem]

If there help scabbard again then that would be beyond garbage

Walking plot device .so I absolutely hope not

[rustic lance]

What even is that take? Enel has absolutely no reason to appear during the raid, let alone cry over the Scabbards as this silhouette is doing. It's clearly either Hiyori or Lady Toki in that panel.

[oak mural]

Enel isnt even needed in the further story

[pure raven]

Zoro having haoshoku

[pure raven]

He could be used to explain that giant mural on the moon

[heady cairn]

Do you see that in moon, in a scene that there is enel in the middle and 4 diferent species and there is a huge mugiwara?

here is the picture, in the right size, there is a mugiwara

It seems like it is

[worthy ember]

i believe its Fukurokuju. The head of the ninja team that protects Orochi. I think he finally realised that he was wrong and is trying to redeem himself. Either that or its his son or someone, who like Yamato is fed up with all the things their parents are doing and just wants to do the right thing

[light pond]

Yeah heal the scabbards go to orochi and fight raizo what a weird guy

[worthy ember]

can u mark the image? i cant seem to find it. rather it looks like the spear holding aliens are wearing straw hats

[worthy ember]

then its his son or someone

[light pond]

Logical answer: hiyori

[pure raven]

Where is the straw hat?

[worthy ember]

how did hiyori get there. also wano has this as a theme. newer generation taking over the older generation. luffy , law and kid trying to take down 2 emperors. yamato trying to fix kaidos mistake. momo taking back the throne

[light pond]

And there has not been any indication that fukurokujo has a son and like i said most logical answer is hiyori

[tired osprey]

its upside down

[worthy ember]

ooooh upside down straw hat. nice . and those aliens also look like theyre wearing straw hats

[heady cairn]

No, the straw hat is upside down

In front of enel

[worthy ember]

yeah got it

[heady cairn]

👍

[teal bay]

Everything can be interpreted as straw hat and that don't even resemble that @heady cairn

[pure raven]

real talk I can't see it

do you mean that entire contraption they're standing on in the right image?

[tired osprey]

yup

[heady cairn]

Yeah, but I think Oda wouldn't put that without purpose Like he put a random man with purpose in logtown, that we discover that maybe it was Sabo. This about sabo is just an example.

Nothing confirmed, I think

[visual plinth]

i thought this place was for serious theories only

[hidden tinsel]

Got any of em spoilers

[visual plinth]

next thing you're gonna say is he has a detachable beard cause he's a ninja?

[worthy ember]

ahh didnt notice that. yeah might be his son or something then . and in this closeup it doesnt look like hiyori either. the nose is too big.

[last void]

Screw y'all.If anyone,that's gotta be Hiyori

[worthy ember]

she has a different nose shape

[visual plinth]

[pure raven]

Hiyori is young Toki

[last void]

Well frick
There was Drawing/Animation error ok

[visual plinth]

it being hiyori is possible but Fukurokuju? I'm like are we reading the same thing? ppl don't pay attention to the chapter and come up with outlandish theories like luffy gonna repel water with haki or luffy gonna get saved by zunesha or sea kings which don't make any narrative sense

[pure raven]

Fukurokuju : Save RS lifes
Also Fukurokujo : Protect Orochi and will kill Raizou

Of course, of course

[mossy rover]

Hes in a middle of a fight rn tho

[autumn vapor]

is this guy the same race as eneru?

[mossy rover]

no hes human

[worthy ember]

against?? after orochi "died" hes just standing there right

[autumn vapor]

long earlobes?

[autumn vapor]

What's with the long earlobes ?

[mossy rover]

idk

[fallow knot]

We didn't see onimaru yet

[pure raven]

So ?

[visual plinth]

Fukurokuju Son : I have not even been mentioned there is no sign or hints to my existence but here i am to heal the scabbards why u ask? cause why the hell not? things don't need to make narrative sense lets just have a character pop out of no where and have him heal the scabbards yep oda would do that huh

[light pond]

He doesnt have long earlobes when he was younger probably have them pulled lol

[pure raven]

Long Earlobes Tribe

[visual plinth]

maybe he just wore really heavy earrings

[craggy pumice]

This actually implies that Fukurokuju doesnt pull his earlobes himself, they just grow over time

Same with his forehead

[reef grotto]

didn't we already find out it was that woman whose name I can't remember, not enel

[light pond]

We still dont know but possibility is very high that it is hiyori although there is a slight chance it could be toki

But def -10000% it is enel lol

[teal bay]

yeah ig he says that platform is a giant strawhat

[teal bay]

Toki??

i mean i did proof the other day that there are heavy chances for that silhouette to be toki

[digital epoch]

In real life, people's ears continue to grow as they age

[bold gull]

any theory on why enel doesn't have wings?

[light pond]

I think it is pretty much aesthetic choice to pattern him to a god that is why he have drums instead of wings

[dusky notch]

Earlobes are developed throughout age, when they keep wearing large ear rings. My great grandmother had it. Doesn't mean their children should have it.

[errant nova]

He was knocked out using conquerors haki so that’s not necessarily true

[tight kelp]

will yamato join the straw hats after the arc?

[digital horizon]

no

[tired osprey]

no

[tight kelp]

yamato seems like an interesting character

[pure raven]

I feel like Yamato will join. I have my reasons

Reason one Yamato wants to be like Oden and in order to be like Oden even more Yamato has to sail the grand line and make it to Laugh Tale. Now luffy is in the land of wano so after Wano arc she has an opportunity to sail the grand line and find laugh tale.

Reason 2 is she wants to leave Wano it says so in the manga.

[sour birch]

But she knows about One piece and other mysteries? She read oden's diary

[pure raven]

Yeah

But she would want to experience it.

[sour birch]

So if she knows where is one piece, it will be strange for luffy

[pure raven]

Because she would want to be more like Oden

Luffy wouldn’t want to know either way

Remember Sabody Arc Rayleigh says the One Piece exist

And luffy said he didn’t wanna know

[sour birch]

Of course, but maibe oda doesn't join her because of this. And well i'm saying this but i want yamato nakama. But maibe will be carrot

[pure raven]

Their is a possibility

We will find out at the end of this arc

[frosty zinc]

I have a feeling nobody new will join because the time skip already passed and I understand that luffy has a whole second ship but they don't really count

[digital horizon]

Yamato is just desperate for freedom, luffy seemed liked the best out as Ace's brother, but what Yamato seeks isn't all that tethered to luffy himself. I still feel like he'll take the beast pirate remnants, make Wano his territory and sail the seas with the new beast pirates.

[digital horizon]

That seems sadly very posssible but I feel like a lot wa sput into setting up carrot and momo has crew members that it'd be disappointing if they didn't join

[tawdry bramble]

I don’t think Jimbei is the last crew member. Carrot/Yamato both have different aspects that makes them likely.

[digital horizon]

especially momo