manga-theories

[brave silo]

i saw the wiki with all the stealth and his wings its probs owl owl

[stiff fiber]

I mean its revealed that he could fly
but not what his df is

[junior cape]

So Luffy has telepathy confirmed

[stiff fiber]

yep

[junior cape]

Awesome

[pure raven]

how/

sry im only eps 600 whats that

[cedar sinew]

This is for people who’re caught up

[pure raven]

Ok u can spoil then xD :))

[junior cape]

Yeah you're in the wrong chat. In 1015 Luffy is knocked off a floating island into the sea, and while basically unconscious, tells Momo from across the map that he's definitely gonna get back up.

[cedar sinew]

Doesn’t matter though. This chats for theorizing not for answering spoiler questions. Come back when you’re caught up 🙂

[junior cape]

Yep

[pure raven]

OH ye my brother told me xD

[cedar sinew]

I guess luffy radiated his willpower

[pure raven]

but not the point that hes still alaive

[teal bay]

its VOAT

[cedar sinew]

The only thing I find strange is that he directly communicated with momo

Which is some special property of voat that was never mentioned or implied?

[pure raven]

oh idk he just said he isclose to death

[weak arrow]

It was implied. Just that only Momo has it so he talks to momo

Or I should say he addresses momo

[cosmic depot]

like how he can hear the elephant of zou

[cedar sinew]

Where was it implied that voat allows you to communicate via telepathy

[weak arrow]

If Kaido had it, he would hear for example

[cedar sinew]

With humans

[shut fable]

not humans but creatures in general

[weak arrow]

Momo is just hearing Luffy’s strong voice.

[cedar sinew]

Luffy is consciously talking to momo

[weak arrow]

This law crew stuff maybe something only Luffy can do.

[cedar sinew]

It’s not just momo reading Luffys mind, there’s direct communication going on.

[weak arrow]

I didn’t see any communication

[shut fable]

thats how momo talked to zou elephant

it was a direct communication too he asked for orders and momo gave him orders

[cedar sinew]

The communication is luffy singling out momo and telling him to announce to everyone that he’s fine.
It wasn’t just a “I’ll beat kaido I’ll beat kaido”. It was a directed message

Zuniesha isn’t just voat, it has to do with kozuki @shut fable

[weak arrow]

Yeah, and Luffy can talk like that cause he expects momo to hear him

[cedar sinew]

Hence why luffy couldn’t talk to it

[weak arrow]

If Kaido had VOAT, Kaido would hear all that too

[cedar sinew]

Well it’s less about momo hearing it but luffy communicating it

Which is also attributed to voat right?

[weak arrow]

Luffy is just giving his thoughts knowing momo will be able to hear him

[cedar sinew]

We’ve never seen someone give their thoughts telepathically until now though, which was my point

[sand sail]

Well, we have tho

[weak arrow]

I mean, we know poneglyphs can. Sea kings can. No reason humans can’t either

[sand sail]

Remember, Zunesha and the Sea Kings, so it makes sense

Poneglyphs can't, they just have voices

[weary cliff]

Isnt what what Zunisha does? And that's why only certain characters hear her?

[sand sail]

But yeh, that is luffy singling out Momo

[cedar sinew]

Sea kings? Nobody talked to sea kings, unless you mean Poseidon?

[sand sail]

The sea kings spoke to them

They spoke to Luffy, Roger and Oden

Or, rather, they were speaking and those three overheard it?

[weak arrow]

Yeah bean

[sand sail]

Can't remember if they were speaking directly to them, now that I say it

[cedar sinew]

Yeah that’s completely different to me

[sand sail]

But yeh, that was telepathic

[weak arrow]

Seakings were talking to each other and Roger and Oden overheard

[cedar sinew]

They’re speaking and the three are able to understand it. It’s not the same as roger directly talking to a seaking or communicating to oden via telepathy

[weak arrow]

You’re problem is thinking it’s direct communication to momo

It’s more like Luffy is on a radio frequency and momo is tuned to it since he’s the only one with the power

[cedar sinew]

Like, we’ve only seen the forward direction not the other way around

[weary cliff]

It's like Adam says, it's an open channel

[sand sail]

No, it is direct communication

Mai is correct

[weak arrow]

That would only be confirmed if momo and Luffy had a conversation

[sand sail]

Luffy singled out Momonosuke for a message specifically

[weak arrow]

Which they didn’t

[cedar sinew]

Momo could do the same thing and have a conversation

[sand sail]

They don't have to have a conversation, Luffy is clearly giving Momonosuke specifically a message if he's telling him by name

[weary cliff]

Because Luffy expects Momo to be the only one with a receiver

[weak arrow]

Because he knows ^

[sand sail]

Which means telepathic communication is possible

[cedar sinew]

But that doesn’t matter though, we haven’t seen the ability to radiate out telepathic thoughts from HUMANS. seakings and zunisha can’t speak so it’s different.

[sand sail]

Well, while that's true, we do know about Voices being a thing

And that's all luffy's doing here, just casting an incredibly strong voice that Momonosuke can read

[weary cliff]

Yeah, this is a new development, but not totally unprecedented

[cedar sinew]

Luffy is consciously radiating telepathic thoughts, regardless of if it’s specific or to a group. And that’s a new development for voat imo

And a pretty big one too

[weary bluff]

this feels really weird

[sand sail]

Yeh, he's shouting them out

Was that what you guys meant by telling him directly?

[tranquil rivet]

voat sonar duh

[sand sail]

'cause he is just radiating it

[weary bluff]

someone dumb as luffy getting a intellectual ability like that

[sand sail]

Oh wtf, I'm getting bot blocked for my screenshot

[cedar sinew]

Well the sub hearing it has some implications

Though I kinda wanna wait for official tls

[nimble hinge]

Laws crew also heard though. It wasn't just momo

[sand sail]

Yeh, that's what I was going to post

They couldn't get the message, they could just "hear" him

[cedar sinew]

Implications regarding group or singular.

[weak arrow]

The power of joyboy I guess

[cedar sinew]

Yeah bean

[weary bluff]

gives me goku vibes

[cedar sinew]

It’s vaguely stated

[weary cliff]

I'm guessing

[cedar sinew]

I mean it could just be a voat thing that was never shown

[sand sail]

No other series details here please

It seems you'd have to have that power, too

[cedar sinew]

Luffy is a genius regarding stuff like this

[sand sail]

The Voice of All Things seems to be what'll decide Joyboy's candidates first and foremost

It's not an intellectual ability

It's Luffy doing what he always does, just with his mind instead of his mouth

[cedar sinew]

He was able to learn future sight in one fight

[sand sail]

All he's doing is shouting really, really loud internally

[cedar sinew]

Do you think that ability it specific to luffy bean

Or can momo also do it?

[weak arrow]

We also had him use conquerors while unconscious. Sorta similar thing here but obviously not the same

[cedar sinew]

The unconscious part doesn’t matter tho. It’s just the ability of being able to radiate his thoughts

[sand sail]

^ Isn't even an ability

[wicked grove]

It feels like a VOAT ability but idk how to even explain it

[sand sail]

This also definitely confirms it as an observation ability

It's not specific to just Luffy, I'm sure Momonosuke could

But I imagine it would require having a really, really powerful Voice to do

Which momo wouldn't have now

[weak arrow]

I think its specific to Luffy

[sand sail]

But then, someone like Katakuri probably could do the same

It's not, all he's doing is radiating what he would normally

[cedar sinew]

So you don’t think it’s voat?

[sand sail]

It seems the same as when they would read people with observation, except with Momo he gets actual words since he has the Voice of All Things

[cedar sinew]

And just observation?

[sand sail]

And apparently that translates the vague "voice" into an actual voice

Nah, I'm saying the Voice of All Things is a specialized offshoot of observation

And what Momo is doing is using his Voice of All Things to read a message Luffy may have sent through either his conqueror's or just he's shouting out from like the heart or something, idk

[teal bay]

i might have the answer to this question as we were talking about this earlier
#manga-theories message

[sand sail]

It may even end up being something that only someone with conqueror's can do

Because they have particularly powerful voices themselves

Shit, maybe that's all conqueror's is? Concentrating the power of that "voice" into an aura or a blow?

[cedar sinew]

Ah got confused cuz you mentioned katakuri. But you think luffys shouting part may not be a voat property

[sand sail]

Yeh, I think that's just generally the power of his spirit/mind radiating

[cedar sinew]

Wait I kinda like that

[sand sail]

And the Voice of All Things is how you can read something like that

[cedar sinew]

I think that’s a better explanation than just attributing everything to voat

[sand sail]

But he's able to do it so powerfully because he's someone with conqueror's, and conqueror's translates the voice into a power

Would be a nice way to tie everything together

[cedar sinew]

Because luffy is known for his willpower.

[sand sail]

Yeh exactly, and we know a powerful voice makes a more violent reaction

[teal bay]

have you read this @cedar sinew

[sand sail]

Luffy's unconscious and he was still giving Momo a stroke

[cedar sinew]

Extension of coc imposing on someone’s will except it’s a direct message? Kinda a stretch but maybe not 🤔

[teal bay]

it can answer questions regarding VOAT

[sand sail]

More like he's using conqueror's unconsciously again, and that's the message he's shouting out with it

He just threw up a neon sign telling Momonosuke that he's coming back, and Momo gets to read it

While someone who may be near may only be able to feel it?

[teal bay]

yeah

this is what we concluded earlier while we were talking about it earlier

[cedar sinew]

Don’t agree with parts of the theory

Shirahoshi’s ability isn’t just being able to talk to seakings, it’s being able to command them

Same for zunisha

What luffy was doing was relaying a message

Momo or anyone else hearing it doesn’t have to follow through

[sand sail]

Zunesha seems to be a loyalty thing

The sea kings, now those are really strange

[cedar sinew]

Yeah zunisha definitely has to do with the VC and his punishment

[weary cliff]

The sea kings might be cool with it too. Seems like they were looking forward to Shirahoshi

[cedar sinew]

And the last part of the theory doesn’t make sense either. The SHs won’t be able to hear luffy becuase they don’t have voat and if they could, then they’d 100% believe him

[teal bay]

VC

[cedar sinew]

What about it

[modest skiff]

I know it feels unlikely right now, but I hope Wano arc ends with BM and Kaido winning and SHs escaping again. Would like seeing the growth but not quite there yet

[teal bay]

if you read any further I did say that it might be a VOAT thing and it might get develpoed in future that he can use telepathy with others too

[teal bay]

i was asking what does VC stand for??

[cedar sinew]

Void century

But he can’t use telepathy with others, that much is pretty clear

[sand sail]

^

[cedar sinew]

Only voat users can pick it up

[sand sail]

Otherwise he'd have broadcast it to the entire raid at once

[cedar sinew]

Because they can “hear voice of all things” aka “everything”

Even telepathy or someone’s willpower

[weary cliff]

And maybe some kind of technology on the sub, if sonar voat isnt just a meme

[sand sail]

It's not sub technology

'cause they remark about how they can hear him even though he's underwater

[cedar sinew]

The thing is I think it’s more related to his willpower not sonar waves

[sand sail]

Could be that they were using observation themselves tbh

[teal bay]

i mean this panel they could feel it too. its either a strong CoC or strong VOAT which made them feel it

[sand sail]

And his "voice" was so strong it was just overwhelming, but not passing a message

since they didn't have the Voice of All things

[cedar sinew]

But they couldn’t hear him

[weary cliff]

If it's not their haki, that's very strange

[cedar sinew]

And again, I want to wait for better tls. But as of rn, I’m inclined to think they could feel his sheer willpower with con

Coc*

[teal bay]

its just his owrwhelming VOAT ig

[tranquil rivet]

you guys are overthinking it, it's as simple as this

[unreal osprey]

lol

[cedar sinew]

That’s not “simple” at all. We’ve never seen something like that happen.

[teal bay]

SONAR is not simple lol

[sand sail]

The strong "voice" is the most likely case here, I imagine

[cedar sinew]

It’s also just fuckin weird that luffy is radiating sonar waves, he’s not some x man. Willpower and coc is MUCH MORE in line and consistent with what we’ve seen throughout the series.

[sand sail]

Well we've actually seen this in a way, we just need to know if they're picking it up by observation or if Luffy is pressuring them from afar

If it's the latter, then it's conqueror's. If it's the former, they're just sensing his powerful Voice

Even tho they can't understand it

[cedar sinew]

When have we seen it tho

Other than Poseidon

Which isn’t even voat like people are claiming it to be, and is just her unique power

[sand sail]

For the picking it up, the first example that comes to mind is when Luffy senses Katakuri's voice when he's eating donuts

He can tell it's a strong one, so I imagine that's how observation actually gives you power scaling

[cedar sinew]

Nah not picking up

[sand sail]

Just judges by the sheer power of voice

[cedar sinew]

Radiating sonar waves

[modest skiff]

I think Luffy essentially made himself extremely easy to sense, broadcasting his presence in a way

[sand sail]

Yeh, not radiating, I'm saying just picking up in general. If it's the radiating, it'd have to be the conqueror's

'cause at that point, we can say he's just physically pressuring the sub and they sense it

[modest skiff]

I'd say conq feels most likely atm

[sand sail]

I just mean if it's not, then we do have like them picking up voices from observation before in the series

[cedar sinew]

Yeah I agree with that. I have no issue with the picking up part, though I’m 99% sure it’s voat. I was referring to the talking part

Sonar voat is just

[modest skiff]

Maybe somehow someone is able to be ultra broadcast to the entire world

[sand sail]

Yeeeeah I dunno about that

'cause also, only the people with the Voice were able to hear the seakings or Zunesha

It's not like everyone was feeling the pressure and just couldn't tell

[cedar sinew]

Though the one thing that supports it is that the sub had to do something with it. And subs are related with radiation/signals (though idk how exactly submarine tech works)

But it could also be put off as them being close enough to feel his presence

Actually, the fact that they couldn’t decipher it supports the latter

[modest skiff]

I think they essentially overheard Luffy talking to momo

[sand sail]

They couldn't tho

[modest skiff]

As to what mechanism he used to communicate, hell if I know

[sand sail]

'cause otherwise the entire raid would have

[cedar sinew]

Yeah they can’t

Nobody else heard zunisha

So it can’t be voat shit

[sand sail]

Unless I guess Sachi has it?

[modest skiff]

Unless the sub somehow amplified it and them being nearby made it a lot easier

[sand sail]

There's no way the sub could amplify it, I feel

[cedar sinew]

^

[modest skiff]

I think waves travel better in water anyway

[cedar sinew]

That just means technology can decipher voat???

I don’t like that at all

[modest skiff]

no I think its a simple matter of waves propagating in water differently than in air and then also being very nearby. But maybe you're right that it was 2 separate events

[cedar sinew]

What waves

There’s no waves, he’s not speaking

It’s his willpower

[queen arrow]

sometimes i wonder if haki is getting too absurd

[modest skiff]

I mean I have no idea. This is super grasping, obviously we know nothing. I'm just saying if there is some process of things being sensed from a distance, those things travel. If we know sound travels better in water: "Sound waves travel faster in denser substances because neighboring particles will more easily bump into one another.". Perhaps some similar dynamic with haki sensing??? who knows lol

We have definitely not been given sufficient info to answer this question, so I am kinda thinking of everything

[cedar sinew]

I think the "thing" travelling through air isn't tangible enough to make a difference in air vs land

do you think knocking ppl out with coc in land is different when you're underwater?

I don't think so

[modest skiff]

All I can really say is I have no idea

The connection of water to it sure would be interesting though

Under water haki amplified to reach the entire planet =

[tranquil rivet]

think of luffy as a whale, whales make loud noises which can be heard from a submarine, and voat does the same thing underwater I suppose

[cedar sinew]

So just gonna summarize what I think about this whole thing

[modest skiff]

Yeah and especially since Luffy's area is connected with whales, Luffy essentially using water to enhance his presence or haki can jive with me

Perhaps Luffy can communicate with whales

[blissful seal]

Could the knife that Kinemon used to stab Kaido in that chapter could be the same that Momo used to try to free himself when he was kidnapped by Kanjuro?

[queen arrow]

no

[tranquil rivet]

kiku's sword

[blissful seal]

Ahh

[queen arrow]

it's not a knife it's a broken katana

[blissful seal]

Ahh okay

[snow cloak]

Hey guys do u think a
2 admiral = prime yonko

[grizzled fog]

I think 2 admirals are a little above a yonko, and 1 is a fair bit below one

[cedar sinew]

Theory regarding Luffy communicating with Momo telepathically.
I'll break this up to 2 parts, Luffy "talking" and momo "hearing".

Firstly, Luffy talking.
Luffy is able to send out or "radiate" his willpower to Momo. Based on the sub being able to "feel" it, it seems that this specific instance was a group communication. However, under training, it's plausible to assume that he can completely single out his communication to Momo, similar to how you can control CoC. I think it's simply his insane willpower, possibly amplified by his CoC, rather than a property of VOAT. 3 reasons:

1. This is a consistent thing throughout the series. Luffy has unbreakable willpower, and in a desperate situation such as this, he's able to radiate it, like how CoC works. Make his presence, but in the form of a voice.

2. We haven't seen anyone being able to directly speak through VOAT.

What about Shirahoshi
That's not VOAT, it's her unique power as Poseidon. Also, it's completely different than what Luffy did. Shirahoshi has imperative command over the seakings, Luffy simply communicates his thoughts.
What about Zuniesha
This isn't a simple VOAT property, and has to do with the Kozuki clan, and most likely connects back to the Void Century, Minks' bond with the Kozuki clan, and Zuniesha's punishment. Again, only Momo is able to command it.

3. The submarine could hear it. This either means 1) Technology can decipher "sonar VOAT" 2) Sachi has VOAT 3) They're humans, they're close by, and they could feel Luffy's presence and his extreme desperation. Also, them having CoO could help out.
   Option 3 sounds reasonable to me. Another point: They mention Luffy could be heard even though they're underwater. If being able to pick up radiation is an inherent property of Sub technology, why are they surprised?

Additional supporting info:
This entire line of thinking is further supported by Kaido's first knockdown of Luffy when he senses Luffy's intense glare despite him being unconscious. Later on, Luffy unleashes CoC (still unconscious) and takes out a couple beast pirates. What happened in the water is a similar parallel, except it had a more directed focus of conveying a message and Momo being a VOAT user was able to fully decipher it. This also proves willpower --> amplified by CoC line of reasoning.

https://official-ongoing-2.gamindustri.us/manga/One-Piece/0924-004.png

Now regarding Momo being able to "hear" Luffy's voice, I believe it to be VOAT. None of the other people around him were able to hear it, and VOAT gives the power to hear the voice of "all things" aka "everything", including Luffy's intense willpower. Also, his headache reaction was similar to him hearing Zuniesha's voice.

@sand sailthoughts or anything you want to mention?

[sand sail]

I agree with it all, I'd just add that they used observation haki on the boat as well as a possibility

I will say, for the Poseidon/Zunesha bits, we have different qualities that should be highlighted

For Poseidon, Shirahoshi never actually commanded the Sea Kings. They just sensed her emotions and need and came to help by default

So it seems to be either a loyalty thing or like a pack mentality built in, where they're just zeroed in on her

For Zunesha, Momonosuke couldn't communicate back, he had to sit there and start shouting. So I'm wondering if what Luffy's doing is strictly a property of the VOAT, or if that confirms it has to be a matter of conqueror's he's radiating as well?

If it's conqueror's that Momonosuke can just read from the VOAT, it explains how the Polar Tang crew picked it up too. They mention they can almost hear his voice even though they're underwater, which would be really weird to point out if the sub had any kind of sonar to aid in that

[cedar sinew]

well yeah. I said commanded because it's been directly stated that Poseidon can do that. And through shirahoshi we see it can be done telepathically

and Momo did yell at Zunesha huh?

that's an interesting point

I'm like 90% confident that Momo being able to talk to Zunisha has nothing to do with voat or observation. It's just the bond between kozuki and mink, and Momo being the shogun by blood. Him being able to hear it is through voat though.

but I only mentioned that to discredit anyone saying we've seen "sonar voat" in the past through momo

[sand sail]

Yeh exactly, that's what I was thinking too. It could also be that Momo just didn't know how to answer, and defaulted to yelling too, but I'd rather take that as support that Luffy had to mix his conqueror's with his Voice of All Things or Observation haki to do it

[cedar sinew]

@dark palm wrote out my thoughts regarding voat communication.
@dusky acorn you might be interested too

[worthy breach]

@cedar sinew Apologies, wanna ask a question but before that I wanna make sure i understood the theory briefly. Did luffy used his haki (or simply willpower) to communicate with momo?

[cedar sinew]

his willpower possibly extended with his CoC.

[sand sail]

I do believe they're literally the same thing, no?

[cedar sinew]

but the main point I'm trying to make is that it's not VOAT, strictly for the speaking part

yeah I guess so. It's just that we haven't seen a coc application to this level

[worthy breach]

But how is he able to use it under water? Based on previous chapters we saw that sea stone cuffs, which is the same thing as being in water, were preventing the individual from using haki. That's what i wanted to ask, it quite confused me

[teal bay]

well i have few things to say.
starting with seakings, luffy could hear them too , roger and oden too coz they had VOAT. shirahoshi can command them.
next with zunesha, luffy could hear her too and so did roger and oden they weren't able to command it and mom can cause zunesha was using VOAt too.
only shirahoshi and momo can control them both respectively cuz they had poers it doesnt diff. from those having VOAT

[sand sail]

It doesn't prevent them

It makes it harder

[cedar sinew]

he's using it unconsciously as he's falling underwater. DFs can be used to, just not consciously

[sand sail]

Just like seastone doesn't prevent movement, it makes it harder

^ That too

[cedar sinew]

what does that prove?

[teal bay]

sea stone only prevents DF poers not the haki

[cedar sinew]

I didn't disprove any of those

I know Luffy could hear zuniesha. I know Oden and Roger could hear. I know Luffy could hear seakings

[worthy breach]

we saw luffy couldnt use it at udon thats why i asked that, if it's wrong then i have no problem with that

[cedar sinew]

my thoery specifically said all the hearing parts were attributed to voat

[teal bay]

i am just saying that it can be VOAT with which luffy communicated with momo and only momo was able to listen to it cuz he had VOAT too and law's crew sensed it cuz it was too strong

[cedar sinew]

but I just explained why I don't think it's voat.... and you saying Luffy, Oden, Roger could hear creatures doesn't prove Luffy being able to speak using voat

[hushed ferry]

yall so far off

[teal bay]

so do you think it has something to do with CoC??

[cedar sinew]

yes. That's what I wrote

[hushed ferry]

from the water he is doing it

[teal bay]

😐

you are just editing your sentences and it doesn't make it easy to read it @hushed ferry . just write it in a single para

[weary cliff]

Slow mode is doing its job

[teal bay]

yeah but they are just writing one sentence then editing it. couldnt even understand a single thing they wanted to say. i just read "noobs"," luffy is winning" and " from the water he is doing it". 😐

[cedar sinew]

it's all sorted out

anyway, Luffy speaks through willpower and coc, that's what I think

[pure raven]

That telepathic talking to eachother got weird lol it’s one thing to hear animals and such but this is just kinda dumb and all to say that he is gonna beat kaido lol wtf

[weary cliff]

That message alone completely undercuts what Kaido tried to to last chapter. It was significant

[sand sail]

^ The most significant thing in the chapter

[pure raven]

Yeah and it was just that, the chapter coulda been used to do something more idk but that telepathic talking is just weird to me for OP lol

[thick sky]

It's just oda finally diving into the VOAT stuff IMO

[last halo]

I mean... Momo was shown to be connected with Luffy for some chapters now

Momo having VOAT and Luffy having such a strong presence to the point he's able to communicate with Momo isn't too weird.

[dusky acorn]

However, under training, it's plausible to assume that he can completely single out his communication to Momo, similar to how you can control CoC. I think it's simply his insane willpower, possibly amplified by his CoC, rather than a property of VOAT
Really good theory. I agree with it too, and something that seems to be extremely consistent with all this line of thinking is Luffy's first loss to Kaido. https://official-ongoing-2.gamindustri.us/manga/One-Piece/0924-004.png
If Luffy was able to single out his voice onto Momo, then looking back at his first KO to Kaido, he would have been so angry, that even after getting knocked out that that's the same thing he was doing there, solely onto Kaido for him to feel.

But of course, since Kaido isn't a VOAT user like Momo, he wasn't able to pick up any clear words through all that enraged willpower, but he was still was able to feel his indomitable spirit radiating from him.
It wasn't merely Luffy's COC in this moment either, as Kaido only realised he had that once he knocked out the Beast Pirates after the fact.

https://official-ongoing-2.gamindustri.us/manga/One-Piece/0924-005.png
Then, after Kaido walks away, and going by this theory, Luffy's willpower finally transformed into just the raw COC blaring out indiscriminately. Only then was Kaido able to find out he was a user of that haki.

[cedar sinew]

Oh shit, I didn’t think about that at all. The fact that Luffy used CoC/imposed willpower as he’s unconscious definitely supports that he’s doing a similar thing underwater. Great find

[modest skiff]

I wonder if very advanced CoC is how the seakings communicate

[lunar wren]

does anyone else think that the marines might come after the fighting and clean up

[modest skiff]

If they are in communication with people there, they'd be fools not to show up

[cedar sinew]

Seakings don’t communicate

[lunar wren]

like easy clean up

[cedar sinew]

They talk with eachother

And VOAT is able to pick up on that

[lunar wren]

in every scene with sea kings they didnt move their mouths iirc

[cedar sinew]

Unless you’re asking how they talk with eachother?

Something like this

The seakings themselves don’t possess CoC lol

[mossy hound]

does anyone else think that zeus is nami's staff now?

[modest skiff]

I figured big mom took over her staff and will attack nami

[mossy hound]

oh i figured it was zeus because it didnt seem angry it seemed friendly

[lunar wren]

it is zeus

[mossy hound]

i mean its not confirmed

but yeah i think it probably is zeus

[lunar wren]

isnt it Zeus's facial expression

nami was attempting to take zeus from big mom, probably a portion of it was able to get in the staff

[grizzled fog]

It’s clearly Zeus, Nami stuck the climatact in hera’s mouth as she was eating Zeus, so now he’s managed to escape into it and fuse with it.

[mossy hound]

oh i didnt see her stick it in hera's mouth

[modest skiff]

Alright works for me

[lunar wren]

also the face on the staff is 1:1 zeus's facial expression

[mossy hound]

the black and white messes with my eyes but yeah thats what i assumed

[brave silo]

whats up with zeus

[lunar wren]

he in nami staff

[mossy hound]

yeah

[brave silo]

theres so many new things happening every fricking chapter its unpredictable af

[lunar wren]

we don't know if it's partially or full power zeus. gonna say its the first

[grizzled fog]

BM took part of his soul so he should be nerfed

[mossy hound]

yeah thats true

and do you think the clouds from nami will help anymore since well he might not be a cloud anymore?

[grizzled fog]

[teal bay]

The only thing we really have to rebuke with this is since Kaido didn't realize he had COC until fodder were actually knocked out, perhaps layering VOAT on top of COC is able to mask the haki in a sense, or it's just such a niche application of the haki given the rarity of VOAT is why Kaido wasn't able to tell it was that haki right away.
@dusky acorn do you mean that he was coating his CoC with VOAT or vice versa cuz i am not able to understand what you wanna say here. sorry for inconvenience

[pure raven]

Yeah basically, making it impossible for kaido to detect luffy was using coc while knocked out

[lunar wren]

what's VOAT

[teal bay]

Voice Of All Things

[pure raven]

Voice of all things

[lunar shell]

I dont get it, didnt the guys in the submarine hear it too ?

[mossy hound]

no but i think that they just felt his presence

[lunar shell]

Didnt the official translate say they hear him ?

[teal bay]

nope they felt it

[teal bay]

its not even out yet

[mossy hound]

yeah thats what i thought

[lunar shell]

Yeah I was wondering why the site who I though gave official translation was out already

[mossy hound]

yeah the official translate comes out on sunday i think

[lunar shell]

Indeed.

[teal bay]

yessir

[lunar shell]

In anycase, that they hear it or feel it ? What would be the result of this ?

None have an idea I guess ?

[mossy hound]

they found him and he wont die

[foggy niche]

What if Luffy used a new form?

[mossy hound]

he will fight kaido again and hopefully this time he will win

[lunar shell]

"its like we could hear/feel his voice even tough we re under water "

I refer to that @mossy hound

[teal bay]

what about it??

[lunar shell]

In short, how can this be possible

[mossy hound]

oh yeah gotcha
well i think it might just be because his haki is so strong at that moment that they can feel his presence or something

[lunar shell]

ok

[teal bay]

#manga-theories message
read this and #manga-theories message both are theories about same thing

bit. diff too, also just read a bit ahead too with the first link

[lunar shell]

okay ty

[ancient vault]

#also-manga message

[teal bay]

lmao please

[ancient oriole]

hello

[pale tree]

So the longer this story goes on the more confident I am that the battle will end at the capital and Luffy will unlock his Gear 5 devil fruit awakening to turn the island in to rubber and stop everyone from being smashed by Onigashima

I think he's going to have some epiphany after being rescued by Law's crew like he did after being jailed and figure out how to use it and then pretty much end the battle.

The question I am still wondering tho is who will beat Kaido/Big Mom. Hard to say what will happen now as most of the Straw Hats seem to be out of commission. Thinking that Law/Kid will take down Big Mom but it's hard to say.

[rugged harbor]

yeah i mean the matchups are clear now , yamato and luffy vs kaido , tra and kid vs big mom , sanji vs queen , zoro vs king (2000 men?) with the rest of the straw hats finishing the clean up

[teal bay]

can be anything possible but anyways its gonna be fun
like they 3 got their motives to defeat kaido
Luffy - Pirate king
Yamato - Freedom
Zoro - be the best swordsman
also about king it can be Marco vs King
cuz what we know yamato wont back out from defeating kaido. can be that she is KO before luffy comes back and then Luffy and Zoro was kaido

its a copy pasta of one of my own replies

[pure raven]

imagine that one piece is done and it’s just a story that brook is telling to people after 500+ years

[teal bay]

😐

[pale tree]

Yamato does seem like a key player, embodying the spirit of Oden. But idk if the final Kaido face-off will be a 2v1. It would be kinda poetic though, if the spirit of Joy Boy fought alongside the spirit of Oden.

Actually I take it back because narratively speaking that does seem like the most likely outcome. Oden did say that the people of Wano had to be prepared to work alongside Joy Boy. It will probably end up being very literal.

[bold gull]

well luffy has been repeating that he will defeat kaido since dressrosa... if he doesn't do it 1v1 he will loose a lot of credibility

[pure raven]

I don’t think zoro will be in any condition to go up against kaido again, I see him just taking out fodder if he does get back into it

[sturdy glen]

any theories about a strawhat dying like ace?

[weak arrow]

Basically just Usopp.

[sturdy glen]

would people even care if usopp rips?

[weak arrow]

Yes

[sturdy glen]

i could see sanji die. he has yet to fight against kaido and we see what happend with luffy/zoro

[weak arrow]

If a strawhat dies, it will not be until the very last arc of the series.

[teal bay]

or he teams up with luffy for 2v1

[split hornet]

Zenkai boost innit

All strawhatd vs Kaido would be nice, i think that's in the opening too

[pure raven]

That’s a cheap win, 1v1 or no bragging rights

[split hornet]

Idk if this has been said, but if Oden knew that in 20 years someone will be able to beat Kaido, for whatever reason that almost sounds like history is repeating. There has been a dragon slayed in Wano before, kaidos dragon statue.
Maybe Kaido knows what Oden knows and that's why he's in Wano, "he was looking for a place to die "
Like the minks, samurai and joyboy link prolly makes sense then
Idk

[cedar sinew]

he's in Wano to build up his forces, produce weapons, and advance his new onigsashima project

and to find the One Piece

he repeats it over and over again. There's no joyboy gatekeeping taking place

[light pond]

His hypothesis came from this

So i dont think it is history repeating itself

[split hornet]

Hmmmm so many questions lol

[light pond]

The one from a far away sea is luffy probably the joyboy and the other is shirahoshi the posiedon

They meet exactly 25 years from this scene which is what the sea kings prophesied

[modest skiff]

Yeah I think this as well and some other people here also

He’s also telling kinemon to be happy with his warriors death since he can’t have one lol

[devout abyss]

did anyone else get a heart attack when reading the newest chapter or is it just me?
and is luffy joyboy? since he couuld use the voice of all things?

and maybe kaido was thinking that joyboy never loses and he thoguht luffy lost so he is thinking luffy is not joyboy.
but when luffy said to momo he is gonna win HE IS STILL ALIVE so that dosent mean luffy has a chance to be joy boy

If luffy is actualy joyboy, maybe that explains that he could USE THE voice of all things to other people just like how the sea kings could.

[tired osprey]

Tama's future pet theory

Two of Tamas pets seems to be based of Momotaro's animal companions, Komachiyo from the dog, and Hihimaru from the monkey.
Both Komachiyo and Hihimaru are also based of mythological animals, the Komainu and the Hihi.
They also follow the most common colors of kibidango, Tama herself the green dango, Hihimaru the white dango and Komachiyo the white dango covered with Kinako or Mitarashi (gold/yellow). 🍡

That leaves with some guidelines of what Tama's next pet will be.
It will reference Momotaros pheasant companion, it will be based of mythology, and it will be pink colored. However, I don't think there will be any room in the story to have Tama tame another beast in Wano at the moment, that's why I'm looking towards ELBAF, and its nordic mythology inspiration!
That leaves us with two different kind of nordic mythological birds, Huginn/Muninn, a crow or Gullinkambi, a rooster. In my opinion a rooster would fit better and is closer to a pheasant, so I'll go with that.

Tama's next pet will be a mythological inspired Rooster from Elbaf, it'll be pink colored, and probably named Gullin-something.

[amber oar]

Tama's next pet will be Fourtricks

[tired osprey]

[teal bay]

why does she need another pet?? and what is she doing on elbaf??

[tired osprey]

why does she need another pet?
To complete the Momotaro reference

and what is she doing on elbaf??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97vmoVJCdwg

[grizzled fog]

I see you’re trying very hard to avoid calling them what they are Oli

[tired osprey]

call what what they are?

[pure raven]

does anyone know who whos who is?

[dense wing]

There’s a theory that he’s a former warlord

[nimble hinge]

Jimbe was a Warlord for what, 10 years total? Croc, Moria and Hancock were all already Warlords by the time he joined. I believe Doffy was too, but not sure with him. Kuma joined after Jimbe, and Mihawk is an unknown.

So really there is only one slot open for Who's Who to have been in when Jimbe was a warlord. Unless Jimbe took Who's Who's spot. In which case, would Jimbe have met him?

Actually based on his wording, I don't think it's likely at all that Who's Who was a warlord.

[lyric dust]

that doesn't make sense, how can you coat color of conquerors

[reef grotto]

I'm gonna bet on luffy awakening vs blackbeard for the gura gura interaction

[reef grotto]

if the theory about the one piece uniting all seas is true then noah is definitely gonna be used to save all fishmen when uranus or pluton blow fishman island/marijoa up, since they are all "fish-some-kind-of-animal" it's gonna be like the biblical ship, then poseidon's other role would be to eliminate the calm belt

[sour fjord]

Joyboy is probably the original bearer of the gum gum fruit

[reef grotto]

why

[pure raven]

The one who had it before luffy was either Roger or ace’s mom

[reef grotto]

definitely not roger, we already met plenty of people who knew roger who would've at least mentioned it upon seeing luffy

[sour fjord]

KAIDO said in a panel: he's not joyboy

After luffy attacked him. Idk this might be a STRETCH

[cedar sinew]

kaido said Luffy's not joyboy so joyboy has the gomu gomu no mi???

[sour fjord]

Wait Imma get the panel and we'll analyse it

[reef grotto]

kaido probably doesn't know anything of the powers that joyboy had. He probably was informed that roger was looking for someone who had the title of joyboy and equates it with being powerful, that's why he said that after seeing luffy not being strong enough

[sour fjord]

TRUE, nvm. My theory makes no sense since Joyboy was from the void century lmao

But who informed Kaido about JoyBoy ?

Is JoyBoy from Wano ?

[weary cliff]

We have no idea on any of the above

[pure raven]

Kaidos knowledge of joyboy or anything in the past coulda come from his former Captain Rocks

[sour fjord]

True

But the void century was 900-800 years in the past, there's no way Rocks knew about Joyboy, unless he could read poneglyphs or someone in his crew knows how to read poneglyphs

[ancient oriole]

hello

[latent totem]

Just post your theory

Theory - luffy will beat kaido with joyboy related power

[ancient oriole]

uhhhhhhhhh not exacallu

[pallid zinc]

whats the power

[ancient oriole]

its about how the series will end....

[latent totem]

Ancient weapon

[grizzled fog]

And how would luffy get an ancient weapon in wano?

[pallid zinc]

do you think franky memorized the ancient weapon blueprint back in enies lobby

[weak arrow]

no, although he may have used some of its ideas for the sunny

[pallid zinc]

cuz my guess is that he used it in the sunny

[charred tapir]

Frankly build 23 battle frankies

Pretty sure he can memorize poseidon

[pallid zinc]

yeeee

[modest skiff]

He said he memorized it

[pallid zinc]

what chapter did he say it in?

[modest skiff]

I couldn't possibly remember, I just remember him implying that he has really good memory and its not a problem that he destroyed the plans

[coarse hinge]

After knowing Kaido knows Joyboy. Realize not only power for being a yonko but also wide knowledge.

[modest skiff]

We don’t know that Kaido knows Joyboy. Since he said “I guess you aren’t Joyboy” that means he doesn’t actually know

[junior cape]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Joyboy is probably a well-known name in the upper-echelons of criminal society. Nobody really knows WHY, of course, but since the WG made it a crime to know it, it's all the more reason for high-profile criminals to say it. Also, Kaido is a Yonko, and has been for almost 40 years. His intelligence network must be pretty good. Plus, Joyboy's name has been confirmed to be passed down outside the criminal underworld in royal circles like the Fishmen royalty, so it's probably out there to begin with.

As for the next few chapters, Luffy is gonna take a quick hiatus inside the submarine while he coughs up water, and then he'll return in a few chapters once Onigashima is visible from the Flower Capital, and people start panicking.

Meanwhile, Yamato is gonna try his best to keep Kaido at bay until Luffy gets back, while the remaining samurai forces just try to stay alive at this point.

However, one thing I don't know is how Luffy will make it back up to Onigashima. If there were tall enough buildings around, he could do a gum-gum rocket, or maybe someone could throw him up there, or potentially he goes G4 and just flies up there.

Guess Oda will have to figure it out

[modest skiff]

I just don’t see how Luffy makes up for this giant a difference in power

[grizzled fog]

With help

[pure raven]

If I'm being completely real

I'd be 100% hyped if Kaido is the first villain that Luffy needs the entirety of his crew to take down

cause Luffy throughout the series has sorta had the big boss to himself

but like Kaido has like 3 major subordinates of major note, and BM is being held up by Kid and Law which honestly feels like it should even out.
But with presumably Zoro getting healed, Queen getting shit stomped by Sanji with raid suit or not and Robin gonna be murdering girls with Usopp and Nami sorta just vibing atm since ulti and page one are effectively out for the count/have to be dealt with by the other amount of straw hat allies, I think there's real plausible chance that after everyone takes down their respective beat downs, things are actually gonna look up for the gangbang against kaido

or you know Luffy and Yamato have at it to showcase Yamato

[olive coyote]

Well If his entire crew needs to stop... then he is not powerful enough to beat a single yonko and how come he can become the king of pirates if he is being dependent on his crew to defeat others

[pastel summit]

Nothing wrong with that.

[pure raven]

King of the pirates isn't can 1v1 everyone in the world

[pastel summit]

It's not a symbol of power to him, it's a symbol of freedom. Having his crew/friends help him out shouldn't be an issue. and he's needed help in every fight post-ts so far.

[pure raven]

King of the pirates is the free-est man in the world; Roger wasn't the most op mother fucker in the game, but he was a very op mother fucker

[olive coyote]

But king of pirates is literally the meaning he can take everything single handedly

[pure raven]

That's very clearly missing the intent on king of the pirates

[pastel summit]

then why does he need a crew?

[waxen light]

I must have missed that when I read it

[olive coyote]

He needs crew to help him stand up towards reaching his goal

[pure raven]

King of the pirates isn't just a symbol of strength; strength is a component of it but it's not the final designation. If that were the case, Roger would have beat the fuck out of Xebec on his own.

[pastel summit]

so he's not taking things single handedly then lmao

[olive coyote]

Taking down enemies is different from leading the nakama

[pure raven]

King of the pirates, being the free-est man in the world, implies that Luffy can do anything with his crew without major concern. That includes eventually busting up some celestial dragons without worrying about the consequences of the admirals because they'll be strong enough to handle it together

[pastel summit]

he's not doing that either anyway.

[pure raven]

yea cause that's not his real desire

[olive coyote]

But Rayleigh clearly asked his intent

[pure raven]

Luffy just wants to party and vibe and go adventuring and find the one piece.

[olive coyote]

Conquer or free will?

[pure raven]

King of the pirates is just the title he wants to prove he is the freeest man in the world

[olive coyote]

Well it literally has 2 meanings

For luffy it's free will
For Roger it's conquering

[pure raven]

You're misunderstanding the intent of the title of king of the pirates.

[olive coyote]

But ofc I want some enemies to be taken by the whole crew at once

[pure raven]

Who did Roger Conquer? Roger from everything we knew about him was a fierce man who kicked ass and took names but didn't really man an armada. Didn't try to become or conqueor any nation, and at the end gave up his life to start a new era and pass on his will

[olive coyote]

But I want kaido to be taken only by luffy

[olive coyote]

He conquered the seas for the final island

[pure raven]

That's finding an island. There wasn't something blocking his path besides BM and even then he just dipped because he didn't want to fight her. It was presumably hidden through some type of mechanic or secret making it nearly impossible to find without the poneglyphs

[olive coyote]

agreed👍

[bronze spoke]

Idk if this is discussed before but it seems the mysterious figure was Hiyori (instead of Toki or anyone else) and she probably have healing df ability.

1. Toad oil is fake thru and thru. The only reason zoro healed hence have got to be from Hiyori.

2. Assuming she also travelled with speed and tama on their boat, she secretly healing the allies. Chap 1015 panel about how those who ate tama's dango felt healed should be coz she could put her powers into eatables too.

3. From above, it could be possible she was also the one who healed scabbards. Due to less time, she couldn't heal them fully. Also she knew she is weak and so acting secretly.

[bronze spoke]

Also another candidate for healing is Otsuru.

One incident that still bothers me is when mountain god Pig ate so many villagers along with Otsuru. She must have somehow kept them safe and healed. So they were still alive and came out safe.

The toad oil too could have been filled with a bit of her healing powers and she gave them to usopp in hopes that if something bad happens in wano, then this toad oil with some of her powers can help a bit. That way toad oil can really might have healed zoro.

Hiyori probably knows of her ability and that's why she left in hopes of telling her to go to onigashima. Otsuru probably made some healing dangos with the help of tama and then once reached onigashima started saving or healing scabbards but needing to act secretly coz if found out, she would be the first one to be taken out.

There might have been more reference that I may have missed.

So basically.. if hiyori is someone who followed advice of not coming to wano then it could be otsuru

[umbral bison]

Was told to put this here:

Are the "D" the true kings and the void century is when they ruled but then WG won and created celestial dragons to rule

And the dreams of the D clan get passed down to those with the initial?

[bronze spoke]

Could be possible .. they referenced the ancient kingdom as something prosperous. And given that it's a kingdom they might have ruler too, who very well could have been D clans.

[umbral bison]

I saw someone list the D clan last names and it got me thinking

Trafalgar, Marshall, Monkey, Gol, Portgas, Rocks, Jaguar

I forgot rouge was also a D so I initially left it off since Ace is also a Gol

[pseudo pewter]

This is to easy for Oda^^

[oak mural]

There was one d who might have betrayed the d clan ( BB in present timeline)

[umbral bison]

I've heard some say that which is plausible, if the d clan puts freedom first then wanting to rule the world is the opposite

[knotty radish]

Ok so I have this theory. Gorosei is written as 五老星. The 星 is usually read as 'stars' but it can also mean 'planet'. From what we find out during Reverie it seems the Gorosei have had a hand in a regular "cleansing" of the world, so there's a chance they could be much older than they already look.
_ _
My theory is that we have the three ancient weapons: Uranus, Neptune (Poseidon), and Pluto (Pluton). They're named after gods, yes, but they're also named after planets. What if the Gorosei also identify as the other planets? Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn? As a sort of thematic opposing force to the three ancient weapons? I'm not saying that they themselves have the same destructive power as the three ancient weapons, but maybe they see themselves as five planets opposed to the three planets, you know?

[quartz zenith]

This is cool. Never thought of it like that.

[bold gull]

it would really make sense... it's just unfortunate that in the meantime pluton is not a planet anymore

[worthy belfry]

cool im sama could be just Sun

[worthy belfry]

it was when oda started one piece

[uncut musk]

what do you think guys?

[tired osprey]

i think that is a lion

[dusky acorn]

Hey, forget that part I said earlier about Luffy's VOAT. I happened to misinterpret a part of @cedar sinew's hypothesis. I already reedited the message, but if I were to simplify that example which goes along with his theory right here:

1. • Kaido and only Kaido was able to feel Luffy glaring, and a sense of indomitable spirit radiating out, against him.
2. • We know this wasn't done by COC whatsoever, during this moment at least. Kaido did not know he was a user of the haki category at this very specific moment in time.
3. • Kaido couldn't pick up on any clear words through all that enraged willpower as he isn't a VOAT user like Momo, but he was still able to vaguely sense him, in a similar manner as the Heart Pirates did now.
4. • Later, we see that Luffy's willpower finally transitions into using COC while unconscious too, after Kaido walks off.

Definitely feels like what that KO scene was trying to tell us is that extreme willpower alone can make one's presence be known, and that it's like a precursor to COC, which can even further strengthen it. Especially seeing as Luffy's 'indomitable spirit' later transformed into him blaring out COC on top of it.

But of course, people on the receiving end of this willpower/COC should ideally be VOAT users, to be able to pickup on actual clear sentences like Momo did. Instead of only vaguely being able to sense him going at it, like the Heart Pirates and Kaido did.

Pardon the late reply.

[pure raven]

i honestly think kid and law have no chance against big mom

[pure raven]

Discussion about making Pluto a planet again has been ongoing recently, and also, as Smarty said, it was a planet when the framework story of One Piece was scripted.

[worthy belfry]

big mom is weaker than kaido , big mom never knocks someone with 1 hit

big mom has good defence but her offense is lacking

[bold gull]

lol i know my point was that op has been running for a quarter of a century and even astronomical taxonomies changed in the meantime

[bold gull]

definitely unless oda decide to use a new TM on them

law uses gamma knife. . . But nothing happened!

kidd uses punk rotten... is not very effective...

I think law will do something with his powers that will trigger BM memories of the birthday party. At least I hope so.

[rigid wadi]

big mom has good defence but her offense is lacking
@worthy belfry HAHAHAHA fun joke

[sturdy hawk]

Well... I wouldn't say that making holes in a building from one lightning cloud is exactly "lacking"

[weary cliff]

Couldn't he have meant a dragon fruit? It's very likely he has some kind of zoan

[cloud saddle]

she could, but that doesn't make any sense i think. Mby im wrong.

[pastel summit]

?

don't think she has ever said this. do you have a panel?

because she almost certainly does have a DF. We've seen it. Her teeth transformed.

[worthy belfry]

we are gonna see kaido totally spank his daughter

[weary cliff]

Well he belongs to a group obsessed with collecting all of the zoans to make a beast army, so there's no better place to be to have gotten a mythical zoan. And we've seen his teeth when he confronted Sasaki

[cloud saddle]

can't find it. It was when Momo transformed into his dragon form, under Yamatos cloths.

mby i remember something wrong

[pastel summit]

Oh. That part. That wasn't Yamato, that was Momo. He just said he wanted to be useful.

[cloud saddle]

no no, she said if she had Momo power, she would have win against her Father long time ago

[pastel summit]

that's not what she said. she didn't say anything. It was momo.

[cloud saddle]

i guess i need to find it then, coz im sure she said something similar to that

[pastel summit]

you're talking about this part, right? The right bubble is Yamato. The left bubble is Momo.

[weary cliff]

Makes sense. The most we can deduce about Yamato's transformation is that it doesnt fly. Still all but confirmed he has a zoan

[cloud saddle]

yes

thats it, thank you for finding it

so it was Momo then, my mistake

[pure raven]

Right here right now I theorise yamato's fruit to be mythical zoan type modal white tiger

[reef grotto]

after seeing all these zoans on kaido's crew (even though there isn't a plot-related reason why they have them), it'd be strange if she didn't have a mythical zoan

[cloud saddle]

What do you think about this? I could agree to this theory, yet i think the ancient weapons are crucial to whether or not i could buy it. Let's say all 3 weapons are NEEDED to get One piece, then:

1. One weapon to control the calm belt - that will be Poseidon. With it, calm belt Sea Kings won't cause any trouble
2. Second weapon, to destroy the Red Line / Reverse Mountain. I can believe that will be pluto, still in the world of One Piece it's hard to believe that people on Yonko Level couldn't destroy Red Line / Reverse Mountain with their own power. Mby Pluton will one shot entire Red Line, while even Yonkou couldn't do it that fast, that would make sense.
3. Third weapon, either Pluton or Uranus. There is a problem, there is nothing left to do for third weapon. That's my main problem with this theory. Morj ofc skipped this topic, coz it didn't add up to his theory.
   https://youtu.be/lkelHLQwHWo

[reef grotto]

the gura gura no mi was able to almost turn an island upside down but that still doesn't destroy it, ships couldn't pass through

it's also possible that uranus could destroy reverse mountain and pluton mary geoise

the sea kings would also need to bring the fishmen away through noah, so it would be more fitting if pluton/uranus and poseidon acted at the same time

[cloud saddle]

yes, thats a good point. I still don't want to believe that Momo is Uranus, i want to believe that Uranus will be found in Elbaf.

either Pluton or Uranus will be in Elbaf i think

[reef grotto]

considering we know zunesha did something really bad in the past that made it get cursed, and momo can talk to zunesha, it's very likely momo is an ancient weapon

[cloud saddle]

Momo just has the blood of Ancient Kingdom

thats why he can talk to Zunesha, coz Zunesha was serving this Ancient Kingdom for ages.

and that's why he can give her orders

[reef grotto]

was this stated in the manga?

[cloud saddle]

which part

[weak arrow]

no

[reef grotto]

that all people who have the blood of the ancient kingdom can command zunesha

[weak arrow]

Both his blood ancestors are from Wano

[reef grotto]

and that he has that blood

[weak arrow]

so the theory doesnt make sense either

[reef grotto]

his parents could descend from people who moved to wano from the ancient kingdom

[pure raven]

the incoming flashaback with yamato will take a loooong time

We dont even know if there will be a flashback

Is fishman island underneath Mary goeis

[weary cliff]

Roughly, yes

[modest skiff]

This is supported by Toki just being like “yo all I know is I gotta get to some place called Wano”

[weak arrow]

No, it’s more like the opposite. Toki’s ancestors were from Wano, and Toki lived somewhere else.

[dense wing]

Is Toki being part of the Ancient Kingdom just a likely theory vs canon

[weak arrow]

Theory. She seems to know Wano was important in some capacity which shows she sorta knows about the joyboy/Poseidon thing (which seemed to have failed in the past)

[dense wing]

Gotcha

[worthy belfry]

toki strange 20 years is weird , something she knew for sure gonna happen in 20 years , why not 25 or 30 ,?

[dense wing]

Wonder if her fruit will come up again in the story

[dense wing]

Prophecy

[weak arrow]

Doubt her fruit will be relevant again. As for the 20 years, that was something she learned from Oden.

[modest skiff]

Sorry if I missed she said she was from Wano. I thought she just said she wants to reach Wano

[worthy belfry]

only spl thing about this exact time is existence of poseiden (shirahoshi)

any theory for momo able to hear luffy even when he is un-conscious?

[dense wing]

Will it’s definitely the Voice of All Things

[weak arrow]

Hmm. It seems you're right.

[dense wing]

We’ve seen Seakings do this

[weak arrow]

Amatsuki is one of the renowned families in Wano though. I still think what i said is more likely though

[dense wing]

However it’s interesting that the Heart pirates, who do not have VOAT, heard Luffy

[weak arrow]

Prob Luffy giving off a very strong voice. Momo's VOAT can allow him to hear the words, but the power of the voice somehow allows law's crew to sorta "hear" it.

[jolly quiver]

any theories of what pirates shanks possibly talking to gorosei? BB?

[weak arrow]

Wouldn't really make sense for it to be about BB, or even Luffy tbh

Even though i dont like Kid, i expect it to be Kid

[modest skiff]

So if she just knew Wano was somewhere she needed to reach, perhaps they took refugees or something? And then needed to warn them? It’s weird because she said she had a purpose in going in the future and then found a new one???

[split hornet]

It's just the question of how do they know joyboy will re appear in wano and they need to help him and open wano to the world. How they know that that person will be strong enough to beat Kaido(even telling Kaido to get stronger )
Perhaps it's then linked to the D.

[split hornet]

Yeh but also saying "you couldn't be joyboy either" like he knows joyboy will beat him aka searching for him

[modest skiff]

Yeah I definitely think Kaido wants Joyboy so he can have a warriors death

I wonder if he knows Joyboy will KILL him or just defeat him

[cloud saddle]

Isn't Toki, Momo's mother a survivor of Ancient Kingdom? Wouldn't it give Momonosuke a blood of Ancient Kingdom?

[modest skiff]

We don’t know she’s from ancient kingdom, just the void century or the end of it

[weak arrow]

We don't know that for sure. More likely that she's of only wano blood than not. She's of the Amatsuki clan, which is one of the renowned families on Wano. The implication of that to me at least, is that their clan originates from Wano itself

so her branch, similar to the shimotsuki branch that kuina is from, left wano at some point

[modest skiff]

Oh oh! Maybe she didn’t know where Wano is because it moved from being on an animal XD

[weak arrow]

that's how I view it, at least

[cloud saddle]

She didn't know, coz literally every Wano district moved to a new location, on the big zunishas like elephants.

[split hornet]

I mean isn't the kozuki clan just like the d clan kinda ?
Cuz seems like they're somehow connected to joyboy

[cloud saddle]

Zunisha didn't move to a certain location, which was her sin. At least it is a theory that i believe could be true.

[cloud saddle]

Could give an example of connection? Coz i can't remember any connections between Joyboy and Kozuki.

[split hornet]

The poneglyphes, the ancient text of the kozuki

[cloud saddle]

ah, yes

[split hornet]

Which was passed down for generations Oden said i think

[weak arrow]

Yeah, Joyboy had to have a kozuki member write the apology poneglyph

[split hornet]

So joyboy probably had a kozuki with him

[pure raven]

Or that was the language everyone wrote in back then

[cloud saddle]

So what is your theory on why Momo said " It' seems like i can't afford to die" ?

[split hornet]

Like how Roger and Oden hear voice of all things
So do Luffy and momo

[cloud saddle]

I can't be sure, but wasn't Law hearing Zunisha too?

[split hornet]

Not sure but he's probably somewhat like shirahoshi, controlling zunesha and who knows more
Something only him from the kozuki can do

[split hornet]

So far i know only Luffy and momo

[modest skiff]

And it’s interesting only kozuki members learned Joyboy language

Makes me think it was secret in some way

[split hornet]

Nah it was a secret script
But somehow few tribes know how to read it

[modest skiff]

And also the only people able to etch ponyglyphs

[pure raven]

JoyBoy must be quite the complex character to have thought to write everything in a secret script on unbreakable stone

[modest skiff]

I can’t decide if unbreakable stone implies extreme technology

[pure raven]

presumably you can't break it with Haki

[modest skiff]

Similar to how skypea also had incredible tech

[pure raven]

It might just be like Dymassian steel where the process to do it was lost

[modest skiff]

I think if strong haki was enough they’d be destroyed

[pure raven]

I say it's probably unbreakable since WG wants that shit gone but can't break it and we know they have access to Haki

[modest skiff]

Yeah

[cloud saddle]

Up until recent chapters i wanted to believe that Joyboy is just a name of a person that lived long time ago, but after Kaido's words to Luffy, idk anymore. If Joyboy is some power, like Poseidon, then what is it? What is the Joyboy role?

[split hornet]

Perhaps it's material is also only from wano

[pure raven]

I think JoyBoy is a title akin to a will being passed on. An Important figure from the void century who I'd basically call the Roger of his day whose waiting for someone to fulfill his will of bringing the fishmen to the surface among probably many other things

[split hornet]

Surely is a person because of Rogers words at laugh tale

[modest skiff]

Would be crazy if the material is there and wasn’t found by Orochi

[split hornet]

Like mihawk saying Luffy has the strongest power on the sea, turning almost everyone into allies, maybe that idk

[pure raven]

isnt it known that joyboy is just a man and you ,,become'' joyboy by doing something ? = not something u born with but something u do

IF I had to take a gander at it; I'd probably say it's likely or more than likely that JoyBoy has a connection to the will of D. if not was the D. Clan founder since we know that the D. Clan isn't just something connected via blood since there are so many various races in the D. Clan

[pure raven]

I think that's called taking up someone's will. Like Yamato with Oden

[cloud saddle]

Then how is that possible, that there was no other Joyboys in the past? Long time a go, there had to to be Poseidon right or we assume that since 900 years Poseidon never appeard?

[pure raven]

roger was one, but he was too early

[pure raven]

Poseidon seems to be the key but I also think we're all forgetting about Uranus and how it plays a role in all this.

[cloud saddle]

still, if ancient weapons are weapons created by Ancient Kingdom / Joyboy, how could he creteate a power like Poseidon is a good question.

[modest skiff]

We don’t know if it’s a title or person

[pure raven]

or both in the historical context

[pure raven]

we know joyboy is a person but also a will/doing something

[modest skiff]

True sorry what I meant was we don’t know if the new Joyboy will be the same physical person as last time

[pure raven]

I mean if Oda's writing a story about wills and ambition, it seems that by some extent, Joyboy's will has passed on into Oden and into Roger whom they themselves are passing on their bits and pieces of their will

[pure raven]

how u mean same physical?

you mean that he would look the same as roger n luffy

[modest skiff]

I’m saying I think it’s totally possible Joyboy is some 900 year old person the same race as Im. It’s also possible Joyboy soul is somehow transferred or his will is transferred etc into Luffy. We have no idea

[pure raven]

I hope that's not the case

We don't need a Naruto reincarnation sequence

im should be a human as far as im aware

just as all the tenryubito

[modest skiff]

Not supposed to reference spoilers of other shows FYI

[pure raven]

it's been over 5-6 years fuck off with spoilers

[modest skiff]

Lol I ain’t a mod, just relaying what I’ve been told

I was warned for spoilers from over 15 years ago

[cloud saddle]

idk what to think about Uranus anymore. Let's think about it. If Uranus was THAT important, why Sea Kings didn't mention it? They talked about 2 people that have to be born and meet, which is Shirahoshi and 2nd could not be Momo. People think Momo is Uranus, which they do and i could agree with it right now too. From the Sea kings perspective, Momo can't be the 2nd person they were looking for, because he was already born, he was on the ship below them, together with Roger pirates. Only other explanation is that Luffy has the Uranus power. That would solve everything.

[pure raven]

really? lmao

[modest skiff]

Yup, honestly it’s fair, we don’t need comparisons to other anime

[pure raven]

I'm just saying; Oda set up Law's immortal surgery thing in Dressrosa

[pure raven]

its heaily iplied that its momo tho

I think it's implied that the immortal surgery was used before and that it's probably Im

[modest skiff]

Couldn’t that be how Im is super old?

[pure raven]

definitly

[pure raven]

I still stand by that Uranus's power is under lock and key by the celestial dragons but that's my theory that has some holes

[modest skiff]

I still think Im betrayed Joyboy

[pure raven]

I sort of agree? I think Im makes for a potential interesting antagonist

[modest skiff]

I think Im betrayed ancient people and is why WG won

[pure raven]

is there anything that hints to that? so far everything hints to momo being uranus

because think about it.
A 900 year old king who rules over the world in shadows but also knows the prophecy of Joyboy's will returning with Shirahoshi and presumably a "JoyBoy" and so he's been watching out and why he has slashed up pictures of the straw hats

[weak arrow]

Maybe Im is Joyboy and betrayed Poseidon

[modest skiff]

I think MJ is built to hide SOMETHING just a matter of what

[pure raven]

what would it eveen hide?

[pure raven]

My only real "proof" is more of a thematic theme. Uranus in the greek mythos is the sky and the one who looks down on everything on earth. The only sort of people who fit that description is the Celestial Dragons who live on Mariejoise and actively look down on people. And the fact that Doflamingo had some leeway with his plot against Law and Luffy despite no longer himself being a celestial dragon but because he was a celestial dragon he probably had some info that was worth covering up

Also I don't think Momo is Uranus but that's mainly because I think it's weird for Oden to have a kid then learn his kid specifically is a legendary weapon to be reincarnated since we don't know much about the Kozuki clan's role in the past

[pure raven]

or the skypia dudes and the other races from the moon. also mythos is just mythos, we dont know if its literally taken over from it. but in the show everything leads to momo.

[modest skiff]

I think MJ has some kinda device or system that allows Uranus to comunicate with all the seas

And by having this capability, Uranus can essentially control all seakings at once, which is like the ultimate military power

[cloud saddle]

Poseidon, Pluton(Hades), Uranus

2 out of 3 brothers, if 3rd weapon was about sky or air, it name would be Zeus, not Uranus

[pure raven]

Controlling sea kings is poseidons job

[pure raven]

technically true but they aren't an extreme military power

[modest skiff]

sorry, i meant poseiden suffy

[pure raven]

jesus christ

[teal bay]

MJ??

[modest skiff]

mariejois

[cloud saddle]

Zeus got the sky, Pluto go the underworld and Poseidon got seas, yet the weapon is called Uranus

[pure raven]

Uranus was the name of the primordial deity who fucked Gaia which led the birth of giants and titans before he was slayed by Chronos and he fell to the sea which gave birth to Aphrodite

[modest skiff]

I think the connection isn't sky, underworld and sea. Instead, it is planets

[cloud saddle]

yes, im still with the theory that Uranus ancient weapon is related to Giants

[pure raven]

One piece do be having multiple planetoid/moon stuff from the ohara flashback

[modest skiff]

Sorry for repeating myself from before, but I still think it is about planetary rotation and alignment

[pure raven]

but Ouranos/uranus means literally the sky but the space one potentially works

[modest skiff]

I think planetary alignment and the idea that these people traveled to one piece planet and invaded the fishmen and banished them

planetary rotations/orbits also explain timing better than most theories IMO

[weak arrow]

i mean, from a science standpoint, doesnt make much sense since they can share blood but who knows if oda really thought that far

[modest skiff]

Yes but metal objects have DNA in one piece

[pure raven]

Ohara's youtube theory about it is actually fascinating

since Enel's cover story stuff implies there was life on other planets that no longer is there

[modest skiff]

So long as metal has DNA in one piece, we don't need to worry about genetic dissimilarity

[pure raven]

and advanced technology existed so if his immigration theory rings true then that would explain some advanced tech in the past

[modest skiff]

Yeah we know that CURRENTLY, there are space pirates running around. And they aren't deciding to travel to one piece

I haven't seen those videos but its what i think too

I think there was some kinda plantary imperialism

[cloud saddle]

so you guys want turn one piece into dragon ball? Destroying planets and etc.? xD

[modest skiff]

I mean with how little info we have, we gotta form some kinda theory

If we know planetary travel exists and we know people live on other planets, its pretty easy connection to make

[cloud saddle]

it would be, if series had time to develop it

but i think there is no time left for it

[modest skiff]

And that's part of why I think Oda is lying about the true length of the story

I think Roger laughed because he realized the planet he was so proud of and so strong on is actually a small grain of sand on a beach and he's a total nobody

[pure raven]

I don't think we'd reach planet destroying levels but the theory goes that all the different races came from different planatoid objects

[modest skiff]

And realizing that his entire crew were very weak compared to the universe, he laughed

[pure raven]

the giants like oars, the demons like King, the minks, etc... etc...

[modest skiff]

I just wish we knew more about Elbaf's non-intervention

It seems like Elbaf just isolates itself, but there are giants in some places, not clear how they got there, seems kidnapped. It seems like Elbaf doesn't go looking for lost giants. But they are also amazingly powerful

[pure raven]

I suspect it has something to do with Lola's connection to Loki

[cloud saddle]

so, do you think original Joyboy was a giant?

[modest skiff]

If I had to guess, yes

[pure raven]

Given the size of Im's straw hat, yes

[modest skiff]

well that hat wasn't giant sized was it

[pure raven]

It was literally bigger than Im so while not Giant like actual Giants, was absolutely substantially larger than most if not every human

[modest skiff]

One thing that is interesting is that BM was confident she would dominate the world if the marriage went through

[pure raven]

I'm unconvinced

[modest skiff]

Either she would gain control of their army or she would gain control over something on the island

[pure raven]

but that's cause I need to see giants actually doing more to show their strength

[modest skiff]

I mean I honestly can't imagine a scenario where 50,000 giants charge into anything and don't win

[cloud saddle]

what about this one. If Luffy was the one that Sea Kings was waiting for, why didn't they recognize him, just like they did to Shirahoshi?

[pure raven]

50,000 giants charging into Akainu won't win

[weak arrow]

because he isnt their sovereign

[cloud saddle]

so who is? in your opinion?

[weak arrow]

shirahoshi

[modest skiff]

I think 50k giants beat Akainu lol

[cloud saddle]

they knew when 2nd sovereign will be born as well, i'm sure they could recognize him, but they didn't

[modest skiff]

And they said another 15 years to grow

[weak arrow]

why would they

[pure raven]

I mean you throw in Dorry and Brogy whom were their legendary leaders

I'm saying Akainu literally melts them to death

especially since I'm pretty sure we haven't seen any of the giants use Haki before

[cloud saddle]

you know exact date when someone will be born, ofc you could recognize him

[modest skiff]

I don't think BM was totally wrongly estimating their strength though

Why would BM think they are so strong and be wrong?

[weak arrow]

no, they know shirahoshi, not joyboy

[pure raven]

Cause they're the last race to add to her collection and arguably the strongest race on average in comparison to normal people

[weak arrow]

"I'm sure the whales will be happy too on the day our 2 kings finally meet again." Then we get this panel right after FMI

[modest skiff]

Adam so you're saying they could walk by the other one and not know who it is?

[weak arrow]

yes

[cloud saddle]

they 100% know about the 2nd, just Luffy isn't the one, thats what i think

[worthy belfry]

uranus could be ability to control ancient giants , zunisha was pet of ancient giant

[pure raven]

I don't think so; Zunisha is leagues bigger than any giant

[modest skiff]

I think the theory of a giant using a weapon rather than being weapons is more likely

[worthy belfry]

ancient giant ,see the skull on onigashima

[modest skiff]

For example, a boat that can only be manned by giants, would be awesome

[cloud saddle]

What i think is that, the 2nd King that Sea Kings were talking about is someone from Giant race

[modest skiff]

I wonder if it is possible that giants used to be much bigger

Oh that's a good possibility too. We don't know the age of Loki right

NEvermind, he is 63

[pure raven]

Can't be

[modest skiff]

It can't be Loki since Loki is too old to be this other sovereign

[pure raven]

if a Giant for born 25 years ago; they'd basically be a literal baby

in giant terms since Hajrudin is considered a young adult at like 89?

and I think BM and BB are actually the only Yonko who probably don't know about JoyBoy

[modest skiff]

I kind of suspect BB knows more than anyone, but maybe i'm wrong

[worthy belfry]

dori and brogy werre fighting for 100 years , which was just short life span of them

giants can live 500 years

[cloud saddle]

and why they can't be? They could be a baby.

[modest skiff]

The seakings said it will take 15 years for them to mature, 15 years for a giant doesn't do much

[weak arrow]

Notice the official doesnt use "they will be born in 10"

[worthy belfry]

BB knows everything, he is best planner, he is waiting for perfect oppurtunity

[cloud saddle]

and still what? He can be their king, age doesn't matter

[shadow jewel]

Bruh I made a theory on this topic

[cloud saddle]

shirahoshi is literally kid, and is a king to Sea kings

why 25 yrs old kid giant can't be a king to them?

[pure raven]

annother 15 to grow

[modest skiff]

true, no reason why not really

[pure raven]

giants take longer to mature than other races

[shadow jewel]

.

[worthy belfry]

crocodile knew about pluton( a ancient weapon) , kaido knew about joyboy, how they knew about these things without reading ponegiffs

[shadow jewel]

Shirahoshi awakening Poseidon lined up in the exact same year Joyboy returned to Wano

And Momo being sussy rn

[pure raven]

you know what, valid point

[cloud saddle]

i think ancient weapons are common knowledge, no? At least their existance. About Joyboy, thats a good question. Probably from his captian Xebec.

[pure raven]

Xebec did want to turn the world upside down so using the ancient weapons is actually a smart way to go about it

perhaps trying to force the prophecy?

[modest skiff]

I think Xebec is why Garp will never trust pirates

[pure raven]

I'd like to believe that at least 1 member of the D-Clan should/has to know what their D is about that isn't Roger

[cloud saddle]

WG reason ( Public relation) to let people stop reading poneglyphs, was litearlly "Don't read it, coz ancient weapons mustn't be used"

[worthy belfry]

crocodile not only knew about pluton but he was sure that alabasta ponigiff has that weapon location, how he knew that?

[warm hollow]

What do we think of the Snow Bunny Carrot theory in these parts?

[worthy belfry]

not even gorosei know that

[pure raven]

I think Im keeps a tight leash

and also probably hates tf out of joyboy and any potential inheritors of their will

[worthy belfry]

if it is new strawhat member then it is okay

[pure raven]

Idk about any theories but I don’t want Becky to join the crew I prefer Yamato better power up

[modest skiff]

True I think there is some person or source of information we don’t know about

[worthy belfry]

yamota need 3 things backstory ,role and dream

[modest skiff]

Another example, the book of all devil fruits. Who made that? Who knew about all of them? We have no idea

[pure raven]

Carrot has no role either except be another weak link

[pure raven]

He had really good information gathering source as he said iirc

[pure raven]

Becky??

[worthy belfry]

maybe a another person like robin(sort of inferior version) exists

[worthy belfry]

I heard carrot being role of lookout theory, she barely sleeps and can jump very high ,makes her perfect lookout

[pure raven]

I think zoro likes to sleep up there

[modest skiff]

yeah i thought zoro was lookout

[queen arrow]

the crow's nest is Zoro's gym

[shadow jewel]

I think Yamatos dream will be directly related to Luffys dream, freedom. She could have gotten inspiration from Ace or something, idk

I don't know if she's joining tho. She doesn't fit with the crew at all yet. Although she is prolly one of my favorite characters in Wano rn

[warm hollow]

No its like an old theory that she will eat monets fruit that's reincarnated on the sunny

[ancient oriole]

greetings

[cloud saddle]

what do you think about this Blackbeard theory, about him having 2 twin brothers?
https://www.opfanpage.com/2018/11/23/blackbeards-body-and-darkness-his-biggest-secret-explained-3/

[vapid yew]

ive seen that

and i doubt it, i think its either a split personality, something a will of d member can do, or an ancient power he acquired that can allow him to eat multiple

three blackbeards doesnt seem like something oda would do

[pure raven]

much doubt

if i had to take a guess, and my real only guess is that BB is probably the only D that likely has any actual knowledge of what happened to the original void century with the ancient D. Clan cause he knows way too much and plots things out too meticulously cause his goal isn't anything like acquire the one piece or whatever, his goal is probably world domination or fucking up the world personally

cause there's too many things "Off" about him. He doesn't sleep. He knew about devil fruits to an extremely hard degree and was placing bets since he was a kid

he knew that if he found the darkness devil fruit he'd end up like this

[modest skiff]

There’s no getting around the 3 skulls on his flag. He has some type of 3 person/soul/spirit/personality thing

[pure raven]

The not sleeping thing makes him sinister and dark af 💀

[modest skiff]

One of my early theories is that he absorbed 2 of his twins into himself when he was still in the womb and they are now in his stomach

And they Blackbeard benefits from essentially having 2 humans in him

[proper torrent]

who else thinks Yamato will join the Straw Hats? as I really think she would be a great addition to the crew

[pure raven]

me

[manic aurora]

Three ancient weapons: Pluton, Poseidon and Uranus. Pluton was burned by Franky, Poseidon is Shirahoshi and so the secret weapon that Doflamingo talks about I think is probably Uranus which is in Marie Geoise and all Celestial dragons know about it (those who are head of their family not their children) hence Mingo knew and hence was the reason Marines never went after Uranus (like they did for Pluton and Poseidon) what do you guys think about it?

[proper torrent]

that makes sense I don't know why but I keep thinking that Momonosuke is somehow connected to Uranus since he heard the voice of Zunisha who can reach the sky in a sense

[modest skiff]

I definitely think Celestial Dragons have the world held hostage, I don't know if it is using Uranus, but it is something. I think the Navy sees no option but to support CDs

[digital horizon]

Sounds solid

[river plaza]

Bruh Luffy also heard him :'3 they both have the same ability

[proper torrent]

oh for some reason I thought Luffy couldn't hear him 🤣

[modest skiff]

It isn't clear Luffy heard Zunesha

He heard something while on Zou and he can hear others

[proper torrent]

ah i see thanks for explaining

[modest skiff]

What made Momo special was being able communicate with Zunesha, IIRC

[manic aurora]

Luffy can hear Zunesha but Momo can talk and command it may be because of the relation Minks and Kozuki have

[modest skiff]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpcBPKrmEro here is where Momo is like "go rekt jack"

[keen portal]

Also luffy could only hear when zunisha was in active distress, being attacked by Jack. He couldn't even sense a presence earlier in the arc (at least it's not shown luffy reacting to it) while momo, oden and Roger all, felt a presence as soon they got on/near zou. More so when they made it to whale forest.

[modest skiff]

I honestly think people are losing track of just how huge Zunesha is

[manic aurora]

I still can’t figure out why did Imu-Sama had princess vivi picture and it was the only one which wasn’t torn to pieces

[modest skiff]

she decided not to travel with them

[manic aurora]

Yeah but why her just because she travelled for a while!? Then why tear shirahoshi?

[modest skiff]

Can you reference the chapter you're referring to

[pure raven]

Imu could just be an obsessed stalker

[manic aurora]

Sure

[modest skiff]

Thanks!

[manic aurora]

Chapter 907

[modest skiff]

Tyty

That was before I read the manga so maybe I missed it

[manic aurora]

Yeah I’m re reading whole manga to know the world better 😂😂

[digital horizon]

Not too deep of a theory but I been thinking about what ame no habakiri's ability is and since it's looking more and more likely Momo will take up that sword before the arc is over I'm thinking of an ability that would make sense as a part with enma, what Momo could actually use without threatening to kill him like enma could, and how it oculd polarize with Enma. Then I started thinking about the story of masamune and muramasa. Real Quickly Masamune was a master blacksmith and Muramasa was one of his pupils. just a quick explanation of the story from wikipedia:

A legend tells of a test where Muramasa challenged his master, Masamune, to see who could make a finer sword. They both worked tirelessly, and when both swords were finished, they decided to test the results. The contest was for each to suspend the blades in a small creek with the cutting edge facing against the current. Muramasa's sword, the Juuchi Yosamu (十千夜寒, "10,000 Cold Nights") cut everything that passed its way; fish, leaves floating down the river, the very air which blew on it. Highly impressed with his pupil's work, Masamune lowered his sword, the Yawarakai-Te (柔らかい手, "Tender Hands"), into the current and waited patiently. Only leaves were cut. However, the fish swam right up to it, and the air hissed as it gently blew by the blade. After a while, Muramasa began to scoff at his master for his apparent lack of skill in the making of his sword. Smiling to himself, Masamune pulled up his sword, dried it, and sheathed it. All the while, Muramasa was heckling him for his sword's inability to cut anything. A monk, who had been watching the whole ordeal, walked over and bowed low to the two sword masters. He then began to explain what he had seen.

The first of the swords was by all accounts a fine sword, however it is a blood thirsty, evil blade, as it does not discriminate as to who or what it will cut. It may just as well be cutting down butterflies as severing heads. The second was by far the finer of the two, as it does not needlessly cut that which is innocent and undeserving.

Of course that idea of a sword cutting only what it needs to cut is something we've heard multiple times in One Piece. Enma seems reflective of a Muramasa blade one that only knows destruction and cuts more than it needs (also making it fitting that zoro who trained under a masamune principle would be one to tame it) being the sword that burns hell if Ame was it's counter part cutting heaven it would also be fitting if it reflected an opposing noting to enmas which would most likely be something more similar to masamune's principle and would probably in a simialr way need to be in the hands of a particular sword wielder to make the most of it.

Thinking like that I think Ame's ability may be that it as enma uses the swordwielders strength and takes more than it needs, Ame may use the targets strength and use it's own power against them. Essentially Ame would be a sword that cuts better vs a stronger opponent, weakening them in the process. It's caveat would be it has difficulty cutting weaker/less threatening opponents almost appearing dull.

I think that would be a great ability for it to have thematically and practically with its counterpart enma. I mean a combination of a weapon that debuffs your enemy and one that buffs your own strength would be terrifying vs just about anyone. Not only that though it would make the 2 swords reflect ODen's nature and journey on his would be journey to becoming a shogun. Enma representing his wild and reckless nature to explore and indulge in all of lifes pleasures and battle and ame representing his maturing into a leader with the caring and focus to who know what to protect and preserve and when to shethe his sword.

It'd also give Momo a sword that he can make use of without it being an OP strong sword like enma is. One that would help preserve his life in a fight rather than one that would be outright able to destroy anyone.

[weak arrow]

That's certainly an interesting idea. While I think enma is a very strong sword, I think this sword would be even stronger. As you said in the theory, the master's blade is "Better". The other issue is that I don't see Momo wielding a sword any time soon in the arc. Momo has temporarily left Onigashima, but I don't really see how he would have the opportunity to grab the habakiri. Oden used both these swords vs Whitebeard and Roger yet we never saw any power like that. I see him taking up the sword during post-wano as a showing to himself that he's finally confident in himself to be the leader everyone can believe in.

[slow sandal]

my theory is thousand sunny will be possessed just like the go merry and will eventually turns into pluton lol

[digital horizon]

I suppose depending on how you look at it you could say it's stronger, either way though I still fuck with how it plays out thematically. Either way Momo would need to become a better swordsman to use effectively. I also don't feel like we're being setup for that kind of payoff given it's name and how it was introduced. When a weapon is introduced alongside another weapon that shows a certain specialty I don't think you pay that off without showing its capabilities in at least some regard. also Wano falling to Wano makes it more likely he may have an opportunity to collect the sword depending on where he lands. if he doesn't contorl his flight then they're gonna go splat so I'm figuring his turning point is happening much sooner rather than later like EoW

[hollow grotto]

I could see, instead potentially of Momo, Hiyori taking the Ame no Habakiri up and using it against Orochi to slay him down for good, since as far as I'm aware, he still has one head left.

[digital horizon]

I'd like to see Orochi survive the raid and end with a formal execution once wano is starting to rebuild itself.

I think a quick death in the war is too good for him, I was fine if he died getting backstabbed by the monster eh thought he could control, but that didn't play out so I feel like a formal execution is the next best thing

[hollow grotto]

A formal execution sounds a bit too much like they would be repeating the cycle that started the entire persecution and subsequent rise to corruptive power by the Kozuki in the first place.

[weak arrow]

I mean we got the nidai kitetsu this arc which has showed absolutely zero purpose thus far. There’s a slim chance sandai breaks at this point unless it’s like heavily chipped from the Kaido/bm attack and has not been shown off yet. I don’t think the sword needs to have a special ability, as it’s really the first of its kind. Habakiri was done by Hitetsu so he’d really be the “apprentice” in this case. Also with the way you want the powers to work, Enma would have been a better fit for momo and amakiri for Hiyori, thus another reason to be against that line of reason. I still think there’s a fair chance hamakiri does show a power, but I don’t think it’ll be relevant for this arc.

[hollow grotto]

I can see it going many ways, and a formal execution is one of them, I'm just wondering if that would clash with what has been established. The fight between the Kozuki and Kurozumi families will be tied up hopefully, its just the manner in which Oda chooses to do it that has me curious.

[reef grotto]

nidai kitetsu doing absolutely nothing is extremely sus, we're gonna see that sword again soon

[digital horizon]

Enma would kill Momo if he tried to use it lol. And while it's still possible sandai breaks it doesn't HAVE to break for Zoro to pick up nidai. nidai could play out in a couple of ways. and concerning the apprentice thing, the parallel isn't meant to be taken THAT literally, it was more to how the swords couold work given how Enma does.

[pure raven]

don't think enma being for momo would be a good idea

[weak arrow]

I mean, Enma would have killed Hiyori too if she tried

[digital horizon]

but I'm saying even thematically with my theory I don't see how enma would fit momo better.

like one way to look at it Enma has the potential to make a strong person weak if they use it recklessly, and Ame in this case would have the potential to make a weak person strong if they have the resolve to face a threat far stronger than themself

[reef grotto]

what I'm thinking of is some kind of interaction with king and his sword. Katanas specifically in one piece have always some important role, and both his sword and nidai kitetsu stick out without having done anything important yet.

[hollow grotto]

do you think it would be thematically-fitting for Hiyori to wield Ame no Habakiri against Orochi, though? regardless of everything he's done or the potential for a public execution, given their history and the match-up with Zoro.

[digital horizon]

oh certainly it is the snake cutter and hiyori does want to kill orochi

[weak arrow]

yeah but how does Enma fit Hiyori

[digital horizon]

it doesn't that's why she gave it to zoro lol. Hiyori not a swordsman.

[hollow grotto]

plus, if Zoro doesn't cut down Orochi, I think he'd be content knowing the person who told him of their strife was the one who ended up cutting Orochi down in the end.

Orochi feels more involved with Hiyori as Momo does to Kaido.

[digital horizon]

yea

[hollow grotto]

set-up potential is there, let's see if it pays off

[digital horizon]

Hiyori was morer directly tortured through Orochi while momo was more by kaido

[hollow grotto]

yeah, Momo has ptsd due to what he dealt with Kaido, mentioned back in Dressrosa and Zou, whereas Hiyori has been at the whim of Orochi for 20+ years and forced to stay silent alongside Denjiro. It'd feel a little weird having Momo cut down Orochi too and overshadow Hiyori, who went through just as much weight as he did

so having them both 'beat', in some way, their enemies, maybe giving them a chapter against their biggest enemy would be a nice moment to end them off

[pure raven]

Who do you think nami and usopp will be fighting since they are joining the stage? Perospero?

[ember trench]

Orochi is going to be imprisoned

[misty lily]

idk i think pero is too strong

[pure raven]

name got zeus now

nami*

[ember trench]

Nekomamushi and Shishilian will take Perospero

[pure raven]

or maybe assist sanji?

[ember trench]

Nami and Usopp just won’t have their own fights

[modest skiff]

Pero's strength is weird. He seems like a glass cannon. Perhaps a good opponent for nami/usopp. But I get the feeling he's hiding power

[pure raven]

tama will put all the gifters against kaido so they dont have anyone else to fight lol

[mild wharf]

Honestly, zoro and marco may be the duo we never knew we needed

[pure raven]

waiting for the moment where tama commands all the gifters

[pure raven]

The guy who wants to lead big mom pirates gotta be strong right

[modest skiff]

I would say his ambitions don't necessarily match his strength

[pure raven]

In agreement

yeah he is just the oldest

[mild wharf]

Like... Katakuri

[modest skiff]

BM is only 63, any talk of who leads after her feels pointless atm

[pure raven]

Wondering why katakuri didn't come with big mom in wano

[mild wharf]

honestly i don't know about this guy. He may have some hidden ambition to overthrow Big Mom

[modest skiff]

we aren't 100% sure he didn't go and its possible he was still injured and also possible to defend cake island

[mild wharf]

the fact that he has CoC is sus

[modest skiff]

If I was BM, I would hide one of my major commanders so he could be a surprise, so long as we are not losing

[mild wharf]

forget about hiding, they can't join the battle even if they wanted to

they need to beat the waterfall first

[modest skiff]

is their ship not at onigashima?

[pure raven]

defending the poneglyph is crucial if someone strong came so he had to stay i think

[grizzled fog]

No it’s not

[modest skiff]

oh, how did the BM crew get there?

[grizzled fog]

? BM’s crew was knocked down the waterfall last we saw

[modest skiff]

I think I got massively confused and just assumed everyone else is nearby if Pero is. Never mind, I remember now

[mild wharf]

blackbeard? do we know what him and the marines are fighting over from chapter 956?

[pure raven]

not sure

[modest skiff]

So it just occurred to me that they had this big celebratory dinner thing and the BM crew isn't even there lol

It feels rude to start the dinner before all the guests arrive

[mild wharf]

It may be big mom's poneglyph.. or the mera mera...

[mild wharf]

straight up forgotten

[modest skiff]

I think that's what auto filled my brain into thinking everyone was there. I just expected they were like "ok now that we are friends, you can come up the water fall and stuff, here ya go"

[mild wharf]

they can come up the hidden entrance now, since onigashima is at wano

[modest skiff]

Right, they can take the elevator. I am surprised that hasn't happened yet. Are we SURE they aren't around?

[mild wharf]

They're probably in the mainland already

[digital horizon]

Well remember Kaido was the first to send them niggas on their way and it's clear big mom didn't communicate with them between the party and when perso finally managed to make it there. So I don't think they were really expecting them

[mild wharf]

Yeah Big Mom's IQ constantly fluctuates between Sky island and Fishman Island

[modest skiff]

From my perspective she just takes a snail out of her pocket, describes the elevator, "get your ass to this dinner" and its done

[cerulean matrix]

I have a theories that shanks will die

[modest skiff]

I think whales want to destroy the red line

I think the red line has a lot of interesting possibilities generally speaking

[stiff girder]

death of mentor/father figure is such common trope

[cerulean matrix]

Yes and that’s how luffy will beat that person who killed him

[rugged harbor]

yeah but , evil shanks theory :c

maybe evil shanks turns out to be true and luffy is the one that kills him in the first place , that would be the biggest plot twist in one piece imo

[teal bay]

THIS
i think he seems powerful cuz no one of his caliber has beat his ass

[teal bay]

can be bcz he doesn't like the way she treats her kids and he being soft hearted for his siblings might have a feeling like that

[reef grotto]

can't wait to find out why kaku's nose is square

[sacred hawk]

So wouldn't there have to be little cavities in each of Queen's teeth in order for him to eject needle teeth like this?

[visual merlin]

don't question anime/manga logic

[reef grotto]

I'm gonna rework my zoro sword lineup theory, nidai kitetsu is gonna be zoro's last acquired sword

[teal bay]

i just read this theory, its so well put and chef's kiss ,

imma go read all theories her in this channel already read first 3

[pure raven]

blackbeard is rocks son

[sacred hawk]

Also, does anyone else not see Apoo and Hawkins defecting to the alliance anymore. Considering how pissed the allied supernovas are at them, as well as what it took for them to trust Drake, who defected immediately, I feel like they'll probably end up getting defeated along with the Beasts Pirates

[ember trench]

I don’t anymore

They’re both going down

[teal bay]

apoo and hawkins are going down soon

i am curious about that certain person with 1%
any ideas??

[visual merlin]

Law or drake

[weak arrow]

Hawkins

[grizzled fog]

Kid

[weak arrow]

Doubtful on kid. Law, drake, and Hawkins are really the only relevant people they could discuss. I guess maybe Sanji too but other than that, not really

[grizzled fog]

I don’t actually think it’s kid but I think Hawkins is even less likely than that lol, why would it be him?

[weak arrow]

Why do you think Hawkins is less likely?

[teal bay]

why would he keep his levels secret??

[weak arrow]

The first logic of thought would be that it’s someone who’s relevant to both Hawkins and Drake. This leave themselves, Law, and Sanji due to the whole germa north blue shenanigans. Sanji would be really out of left field though. Thus you can narrow it down to Hawkins, Law, and Drake

[grizzled fog]

I can’t really see it being Hawkins with the way that conversation played out

[weak arrow]

I’d say it can still be Hawkins. He’s basically forced between a rock and a hard place assuming Law isn’t a dumb ass, thus lowering his chance of survival automatically. Also Drake was just talking about Hawkins. Hawkins checking himself would not be that weird.

[ember trench]

The 1% is Luffy

[grizzled fog]

Man that would be terribly boring and anticlimactic

[tired osprey]

Def

[dense wing]

The one Hawkins prediction I could potentially see coming true is Killer, but that clashes with how symbolic it would be for the 11 Supernova to all live until final war

Regardless, Hawkins predictions are moot if none of them happen

[tired osprey]

Itll have dire consequences

[weak arrow]

Definitely not Luffy when he had a 19% chance to survive the month.

I’m no math wizard but if someone told me I had a 99% chance to die tonight, I don’t think my odds would be 19% for the whole month

[undone marten]

I got an big theory so hear me out

You guys think Shanks still has 2 Arms and its kinda like a Gen jutsu
Because he walked on Wb ship with his Haki going everywhere so it could be possibly that he can impose his will on people eyesight

My english is Not that good but i Hope you Unverstand what i am trying to say

[weak arrow]

No. 100% no.

[undone marten]

Okay tell me why you think so

[weak arrow]

He has been seen by some of the strongest people in the universe. If this was some "spell", then these people would have noticed.

[amber oar]

good lord why he would even do such thing. To be underestimated? He's a fucking emperor

[undone marten]

I dont know why but it would be nuts hahahah

[weary cliff]

It is a neat concept; an illusion imposed by someone's will. Definitely not the case with Shanks, but neat idea

[solemn ingot]

That could be cool ,but i don't think it's the case cause shanks losing his arm is more like a symbole, kinda roger giving his life to start piratery again

[weary cliff]

In a way it would make him losing his arm to the lord of the coast make even less sense. If he was fabricating the story, he should have gone with something believable

[honest spade]

My Shanks theory is still that he might be a Celestial or at least descendant of one. Or he or his family was a slave of Celestials. Also this could also kinda apply a little to buggy since him and shanks are the same age

[solemn ingot]

I agree with that one ,he could be a celestial from god valley,picked up by roger"s crew.

[honest spade]

And maybe why he was allowed a conference with the gorosei or at least a factor into why

[solemn ingot]

Well the timelines match , but its oda and with him everything is possible.

[honest spade]

Every time I’m like maybe it’s not true something happens where im 100% back on board with the theory😂😂

[pure raven]

will you guys be ready for when fujitora somehow pulls enel down from the moon by accident

[reef grotto]

how likely is it that franky put some elements of pluton in the thousand sunny?

he was skilled at making battleships after all

[weak arrow]

I think he may have unconsciously done some things. I'm not sure which elements those would be. Obviously the cannon would be 1 aspect

[reef grotto]

the merry already had a cannon

[weary cliff]

Adam probably means the gaion cannon

[weak arrow]

The Sunny cannon is unlike any other ship's

[reef grotto]

eh but that is more of a propulsion thing than a cannon

in his flashbacks franky was only seen making ships that had actual cannons

[weary cliff]

It's a pretty crazy weapon. The burst is just to keep the ship stable

[weak arrow]

I mean it's called a cannon. It's basically a big beam. I honestly expect Pluton to just have this exact same thing but on a much larger scale.

[grizzled fog]

Gaon cannon is definitely a cannon