manga-theories

[steady edge]

or under the reverse mountain

and u can get there with the help of whales

[hasty robin]

Could it be that the 2 guys who executed roger were some high marine soldiers? Because I dont think that some executioners in loguetown are capable of beheading roger even in chains. We never saw them in full person in the manga and only in the anime

[grizzled fog]

They didn’t behead him, they impaled him, and why can’t they be capable of that? Roger was incredibly sick at the time, and it’s not like he has impenetrable skin like kaido or BM

[zinc iris]

also Roger turned himself in in the first place so he deliberately let them do it to him

[hasty robin]

we dont know if they impaled him, for me it looks like they chopp of his head, of course in the anime its different but they cant execute like that in the anime

[grizzled fog]

Nah that’s impalament, you don’t behead someone like that

Anyway kaido and BM seem to be the only top tiers with skin like that, Shanks’s skin was easily penetrated by a sea king, regular bullets could hurt Whitebeard...etc

[zinc iris]

yeah only kaido and bm have natural hardness

the others used haki to harden themselves when they could (or wanted to)

[tropic cape]

i wonder if oda is accounting for that fact when matching haki techniques between them and opponents like kid and luffy. bm and kaido’s offensive/defensive capabilities are already insane due to their physical body so if someone matches them in strength when haki is used then i’ve been assuming their opponent must have a greater understanding of haki than bm or kaido.

[pure raven]

Puffy will beat kaido or he will flee want

[crude spear]

so I just thought of something. what if, during thriller bark, the samurai that zolo encountered was actually himself by way of having brooks shadow?

the idea Is that, we know the shadow influences the body even to the extent of DF powers. And brooks DF brings people back to life, to an extent.

[craggy pumice]

You mean Jigoro, the swordfighter zombie with no pants, had Zoros shadow?

[crude spear]

no the other guy

[craggy pumice]

Ryuma?

[crude spear]

yeah ryuma

[craggy pumice]

Brook brought Ryuma back with his df?

[crude spear]

my theory is that by getting brooks shadow, his soul maybe returned to the corpse or a shadow of it

[craggy pumice]

ah I see, but the shadows didnt weild the owners dfs

[crude spear]

much like how the giant wanted to use gum gum powers when it had luffys shadow

[craggy pumice]

Oars didnt have the rubber fruit until Moria assissted him with his abilities

and formed him to emulate the rubber fruit

the technique is called shadow revolution, Moria makes the shadow form the zombie to his shape and not the other way

[crude spear]

brooks could be a special case based on his unique properties. I guess I'm trying to explain how ryuma seemed to be himself more or less

[pure raven]

It's probably a haki thing

His haki was so strong that it lingered in his corpse and the idea that a shadow could invade his corpse is laughable because Ryuma's will was so strong that it continued after his death

blahblah Oda hack

[sand sail]

Ryuma was acknowledged to not be himself in the arc, so it's unlikely he was anywhere conscious there

The body can keep some maneurisms, it's not 100% shadow, but Ryuma was also behaving like Brook does. So it seemed to be that he was just Brook

[ancient vault]

Yeah he even had brooks swordstyle

Real ryuma wouldve fucked zoro up with ease lol

[cerulean coyote]

I don't understand Moira. You get the best sword and the best swordman body and you waste it with brook's shadow. On wano, he could have stolen ashura or kyoshiro shadows...

[craggy pumice]

he couldnt have

he just didnt find a better swordfighter

or he did, but then the swordsman died, so Ryuma was just a corpse again for a few years until Brook came

[merry igloo]

Anyone got a theory on WB and Rogers illness.
I always assumed it was their bodies being unable to sustain the damage haki has done, especially prolonged use of conquerors haki.

[lyric dust]

rogers illness is probably cancer or something

[reef crow]

Reminder: keep all theories and discussion serious in MangaTheories

[rancid elk]

@cyan berry wasn’t a joke but whatever man keep flexing that fake power of yours

[lone hedge]

GinobiIi#6797 was muted!

[real swan]

This seems really out there...but I'm wondering if the WG utilized the Yami Yami no Mi to create the void century...

1. The power itself is considered to be the most "evil".
2. It has the ability to absorb anything within an infinite space and destroy it without leaving a trace.
3. BB describes it as the power to reduce anything to nothing (pretty much same as point 2).
4. It can cancel out other DF powers, useful when needed to wipe out an enemy that can also use DFs.
5. The specific description of the century being void matches with the DF power to suck everything into a void.
6. Other than poneglifs (spelling?) there has literally been no other evidence left on the planet of this kingdom aside from vague things people know. Not even rubble or ruins, potentially hinting at all pieces of evidence being erased by the yami yami no mi.

[placid kite]

I like that theory

It could also be that there is a water logia and they literallly washed away everything in a great cleansing

[real swan]

That's an interesting option too! The fact that we also don't know about logia awakenings yet could be another piece of this puzzle. Perhaps an awakened logia could spread their element across great distances, which could explain a great cleansing with a single power.

[placid kite]

I wonder if all of those void century things are actually at the bottom of the ocean lol

[real swan]

I just feel like some part of it would have been found at this point if it was in the ocean, but at the same time we haven't even explored so much of our own ocean so who really knows.

[junior cape]

An awakened water logia who washed away the world would be an interesting take, specifically since it would explain how most of the One Piece world is giant oceans with one major continent

[placid kite]

Yeah that could also be an biblical allusions of the great flood and the Noah

If everything flooded and also why Marie Geoise is on the red line

[junior cape]

Alternatively, the current physical form of the world could be the result of the last ancient weapon, Uranus. Since we DO NOT KNOW what it can do, it could be a machine that allows large-scale terraforming, allowing for the Red Line to form.

Because think about it: the Red Line would require MASSIVE world-scaling tectonic activity to form

[real swan]

Honestly would be crazy if we learned the WG literally shaped the world physically into what it is now

[junior cape]

It wouldn't be stable by any normal metric, and cities would never last up there

[real swan]

That would be cool, similar to another theory about Uranus being a weather controlling machine/device to develop the unique climates.

[junior cape]

The earthquakes and the ever rising mountains would cause havoc continuously

[real swan]

So in my mind if this flooding happened, it would have to have happened after the defeat of the kingdom, otherwise it seems odd for 20 kingdoms to unite and defeat it when they could have just terraformed/flooded it over.

[junior cape]

Alternatively, someone in the distant past could have become a stone-assimilation human, like Pica from the Doflamingo family, and used it on a WORLD-WIDE SCALE

Which would be nuts

[placid kite]

The ancient kingdom was likely pacifists

They probably didn’t intend for the ancient weapons to be used like weapons but they could easily

[real swan]

How I see it too. I think they developed the devices to help the world but everyone else felt threatened by it.

[real swan]

The whole idea of awakenings really just makes these DF true powers of destruction lol

[placid kite]

I think Devil fruits also were given each to one citizen of the ancient kingdom as they were assigned a role in it

[junior cape]

No matter the case, the fact that one of the weapons is passed down by bloodlines says that the creators of the weapons were AT THE VERY LEAST incredibly skilled geneticists, as they can manifest powerful traits in distant descendants hundreds of years later, with tons of interbreeding.

[placid kite]

that’s why Toki name is Toki and she has the time fruit

[junior cape]

oh gosh

Devil fruits assigned at birth, purpose given before you can even walk. That's terrifying

Imagine growing up and everyone you know has godly powers, and you don't even know why, and there's nothing you can do about it

[placid kite]

Lol maybe not

[real swan]

Really makes ya think about the whole lineage factor being key right now. Perhaps they were really proficient with manipulating the LF of their people.

[junior cape]

And anyone you talk to is like "Yeah it's wacky but this is your PURPOSE, nothing you can do lmao"

[real swan]

My ridiculous theory right now was that Toki sent Joyboy into the future and that's why Roger was too early. Luffy will meet him.

[placid kite]

Oh that’d be insane

I think that explains why joy boy wrote a apology 100 years after breaking a promise

since he wouldn’t have broken the promise if he didn’t get sent through time to the end of the void century

[real swan]

Basically it just seems weird that she is introduced as being from the VC but then jumps forward to now. I have a feeling Joyboy knew what was coming or that his plan wouldn't work so asked to be sent to a certain point in the future where he could then enact his mission, hence the apology for not being able to do it. WG probably saw that he vanished and decided to attack based on the ancient weapons.

[placid kite]

What would be more irony is if joy boy got sent through time but arrived at the wrong time

like he doesn’t even meet luffy he ends up 400 years earlier but there’s no Poseidon and he still ends up having to die

So Joyboy was also “to early”

For his plan and he ends up passing his will down to the next generation like roger did

[real swan]

That would be depressing 😦

But would be an interesting outcome

[placid kite]

Like Toki may have made a mistake

she may have been just a kid and messed up how far she sent him

[junior cape]

Also, as far as we know, every fruit has the possibility to awaken. This process may also be a relatively intensive and secretive process, given that as of the current time in the story, we have run into very few awakened users, most of which were Zoans under the control of the world government in Impel Down.

[placid kite]

I think choppers rumble balls will come back later to explain the “wavelength” of Devil fruits and how they awaken

I feel monster point is a awakened form for chopper

[junior cape]

So do many people

It's just the fact that he can't quite do it "on-demand" that has people saying it's not a true awakening, and Oda leaving it to the fans to figure out doesn't help that sentiment.

But honestly yeah if Chopper manages to achieve full control over Monster Point with no immediate downsides, i'm willing to say it's a certified Awakening.

Logically, Luffy and Chopper are the closest to awakening their powers due to how creative they've had to be with them over the years. Luffy's found multiple ways to pump his bodily functions to the limit, while chopper discovered multiple second-tier transformations AS A CHILD through the use of drugs, and can now use them on a whim.

I honestly think it's now a contest between who Oda wants to awaken their powers first

[real swan]

Would be really cool if some downtime after this arc was used for some long needed training and goofy interactions between the crew, especially now that they are all together again. Perhaps the DF users can work on awakening together while the others further develop their haki.

[lean swan]

What if joy boy is somehow imu

[rare plaza]

what if it is xebec?

[junior cape]

That would be a shitty twist

[lean swan]

I dont disagree

[junior cape]

While not IMPOSSIBLE, given how inconsistent "Death" is as a concept in OP, it's not likely, as Xebec directly attacked celestial dragons

[rare plaza]

we dont really know xebec's real devil fruit powers or what he was capable of , all we know as of now is that two major power houses had to come together to try and take his crew down

[pure raven]

Xebec had df powers?

[junior cape]

We dont know. All we heard of him was from Garp and Sengoku in like 4 pages

[pure raven]

Agree

And pretty much in every major fight in the new world we saw luffy showing new gear form

So we can either expect new g4 form (tiger man) or we can see df awkening

I rather prefer df awakening one
Or tiger man g4 form together with coc (signifing tiger as the king and conquerors haki on it seems suitable)

And would be pretty strong

[pure raven]

Also

With luffys tiger man form

Together with possibly theory on yamao's df i.e is said to be tiger or kirin /qilin

It would even match the myth of tiger vs dragon

[rare plaza]

cant disagree

[junior cape]

HOLY SHIT 1013 IS FIRE

The ending holy shit wow.

1014 is gonna be NUTTY

[pure raven]

I posted this way back but now excited
Hope my first Op theory get right

[zinc iris]

Getting a theory right is a good feel

I still brag about mine

[pure raven]

[surreal harness]

god this is so hyyypeeee, how to fuk luffy beats kaido now:DD

[junior cape]

Luffy is unconcious and falling off the island. Nobody knows it's happening. Next chapter is gonna get twisty.

[surreal harness]

this is like dragonball 😄 supersayan first time and all energy back 😄

[sturdy hound]

this channel is for theories guys, you can join the chapter discussions in #manga and #also-manga

[junior cape]

I think that since nobody knows how luffy is doing, besides momo and Kaido, luffy will not be saved midair
Instead, he'll fall to the ocean but land on the heart pirates' submarine, since it's likely following the island.

That is my serious theory

[zinc iris]

Or momo saves him mid air

There are also other fringe options, like if carrot and Wanda, that are outside the palace, saw Luffy being tossed off

[junior cape]

I doubt it. Momo is too high-priority to reenter the fray again. Carrot and Wanda cant fly, and that fall may be lethal, even as sulongs. No, Luffy's best chances right now lie in his immunity to conventional blunt trauma and surface players in Wano. Everyone else is too tied up to help.

[zinc iris]

Sulong carrot was flying in wci

[junior cape]

That was sulong Carrot 3 feet above the ocean, and she can use electricity to attack, so I can see that being explained as repulsion from the water's surface. This is normal carrot on a flying island potentially thousands of feet above the ocean, in inconsistent weather where sulongs may crap out at any time. She most likely will not save him.

[zinc iris]

Sulong flight is basically the mink capability of jumping mid-air amped up

They all can do that thing of jumping again while still in the air

[dark palm]

carrot would make sense to me

or just him plain landing on the mainland, right?

I think either way he's going to go to the mainland and arrive at the flower capital to battle kaido again

and carrot saving him would A. allow him to recuperate while traveling and B. give her a good crewmate moment

since like, I feel she'll get one at this rate

PLUS! this would be a great way for her to honor pedro's ambition

[worldly anvil]

problem is I think perospero is still with carrot no?

[dark palm]

no

peros went to the main floor

he doesn't give a damn about her or wanda

[worldly anvil]

hmm my memory been bad recently

[dark palm]

so neko can solve that pedro revenge, while carrot can carry on pedro's legacy of helping the strawhats reach that dawn

@zinc iris I know we've been discussing this for a while so there's my thoughts^

[worldly anvil]

lolol do ya want carrot as a strawhat?

[dark palm]

yes

I want carrot AND yamato

[worldly anvil]

oh la hmm

could works

[zinc iris]

If Luffy ends in the mainland my god its gonna take forever to get back and Kaido will cream everyone

[dark palm]

well, if they're this close it wouldn't take very long I'd imagine

since while this probably isn't 100% to scale it's a rough estimation

they'd just have to follow the giant thing

and I'm sure kaido would just wait up top like he had been

while yamato and him have some sort of character moment

[worldly anvil]

depends on how fast the island was going

[dark palm]

carrot is fast enough, I'd wager

[worldly anvil]

true

[pure raven]

What about luffy falling into waater

At this moment it all seems that oda doing what we dont think .

[dark palm]

then only squid-chan can save us

not joking lol this is a distant possibility

but it's still a possibility

[pure raven]

Well i m hoping for that shdow who saved kinemona and others to save luffy and introduce himself/herself to us

[dark palm]

that's hiyori, and I don't think she'll be saving luffy here

carrot just makes the most sense to me, with purely landing on the mainland as a second choice

[worldly anvil]

I think Carrot might stay in Wano

[dark palm]

and due to the fact that luffy is falling away from onigashima

it'd be a bit hard to believe he would fall onto the mainland

carrot has no bearings in wano

[pure raven]

So carrot jumping and savubg high chances hmm. Plus she got great eye sight so she should be able to spot luffy falling

[dark palm]

yep

[worldly anvil]

Nearly every single character in this arc have a major L moment

[pure raven]

Hope whatever the conclusion is we get it in next 2 3 chaps.

[pure raven]

All sh had a L in every a4c

[dark palm]

I don't think it's possible for oda to stretch the conclusion out lol, it'll be like the big mom one

where we got it right away

since we sorta had to

god I try not to get invested in theories but I'm REALLY invested in this carrot saving luffy thing lol

[worldly anvil]

there's so many people who can save luffy tho

There's like 10 people doing shit ass nothing

[pure raven]

Thats why they not saving luffy because they doing nothing

[worldly anvil]

lolol

[pastel summit]

juba. was carrot saving luffy a spoiler theory, or was it me?

[gloomy canyon]

Everyone has their moment

[zinc iris]

[dark palm]

entry was talking about it

[gloomy canyon]

The only person I saw talk about it was Entry

yeh

[pastel summit]

based.

[worldly anvil]

Juba is Greg confirmed?

[dark palm]

NO

yep to entry^^^

[worldly anvil]

sure

[pastel summit]

I'm also really invested in it. It ties very well into what Peros and Bariete said, as well as all the Pedro stuff.

[dark palm]

please god oda, just this once

[pastel summit]

and just finally gives her a big moment that everyone has been waiting for.

[worldly anvil]

carrot died by peros sorry Juba

[dark palm]

luffy getting all the way to the capital while nearly dead is a tough sell as well

[worldly anvil]

that's the tragedy

[pure raven]

Well if he will get meat then he shoukd he able to fight

[pastel summit]

I just really hope it's not Luffy gets up halfway while falling then transforms into G4 and goes back up. I think that might be the worst resolution.

[dark palm]

lol

[gloomy canyon]

Indeed

that is the last option I want

[dark palm]

oda wouldn't set up the cliffhanger like this if that were the case

[worldly anvil]

hmm ya know, what if everyone fall down? And they all run to the capital

[dark palm]

I feel it'd be more something that happens in chapter

esp given that yamato is now heading up there, and it feels like oda is setting up for kaido and yamato to have a 1 on 1 convo

[pure raven]

well i am hoping that we fet kado flashback as he was crying know good chance

[gloomy canyon]

it's coming

Yamato reaching the roof and talking with Kaido will trigger

perfect opportunity

[worldly anvil]

a flashback

[gloomy canyon]

yes

[quartz zenith]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

[pure raven]

More hyped for kaido flashback then luffy getting saved

[worldly anvil]

hmm is it safe to assume the mother was some random that Kaido screw?

[gloomy canyon]

Yeah and getting her ass kicked by Peros wasn't her moment

So I am open to the idea of her saving Luffy here

Think it's fitting

[pastel summit]

yeah. yamato going there is probably going to lead into kaido flashback. If we get something where carrot and luffy prep something while on Wano, so by the time kaido flashback ends, we can go into luffy and carrot coming back in, with a new perspective on the raid.

[gloomy canyon]

But still not counting out Momo

[dark palm]

not gonna lie to you guys, the recent developments on the roof had me slightly worried about the speed at which things were progressing

this absolves everything

phenomenal chapter

[pastel summit]

since luffy lost 1v1, I think he might take a different approach, and same with carrot.

[worldly anvil]

Imagine this, King queen jack and all the others defeated, BM still fighting Kid (and killer who beat Hawkins) the strawhats fought together to kill Kaido

[pure raven]

Well still hoping for luffy to 1v1 kaido

Or 2v1 together with yamao

[zinc iris]

2v1 still sounds too few

[pure raven]

luffy got his ass handed over to kaido this chapter

[pure raven]

3 v1 take marco too

[gloomy canyon]

I still think Luffy and Yamato will figure something out

But at this point I just don't know, Luffy is clearly still weaker than kaido

We very well may need more people

[pastel summit]

Like, if we compare the situation with crocodile, the only other opponent where luffy has lost twice, fighting croc was desperation. he had no time to call allies, and he just had to go as soon as possible before he ran out of adrenaline. It's probably like, a combo of luffy vs croc 1 and luffy vs croc 2. Where Carrot is Pell. and they come back after Luffy has a new perspective on the fight. and then carrot will go and do something else, because the last time she tried to fight, she lost. just like pell.

[pure raven]

nitro gift

[dark palm]

but yeah choc, your doomerisms about CoC being the end all are probably saved

we're going to get luffy reflecting on why kaido beat him while carrot ferries him to the capital

[pastel summit]

and I think in this scenario, Kaido's water, is either going to be his scar, or just overwhelming him with numbers.

[turbid pewter]

the new weapon is CoC or...?

[pure raven]

Well luffy ran out of juice looks that way to me

He neee to last longer

[pastel summit]

yeah juba I think they are. I just want that confirmation that it wasn't like, Kaido outsped him or something.

[dark palm]

his new weapon was CoC infusion, yeah

ah

[pastel summit]

I really just want to see Kaido completely overpower Luffy's haki. Like "yeah, you have a new technique, but it's not even close to good enough"

even though kaido does basically say that at the end.

[turbid pewter]

Luffy would awaken his fruit probably

[dark palm]

love that oda addressed why kaido didn't just kill him right here and now this chapter

or rather, why he didn't behead him like he wanted to earlier

got overexcited that there was potentially someone who could kill/match him

and just smacked him like a great dane puppy playing with a chihuahua

[pure raven]

[gloomy canyon]

Man we really jumped the gun on Luffy

[pastel summit]

ties into everything I've been saying about Kaido's crew btw.

[dark palm]

the "luffy is going to 1v1 kaido now without yamato" folks really took two blows in two chapters huh

[desert sedge]

I just wish to see what happened on that fight

[turbid pewter]

[gloomy canyon]

Still think Luffy is going to figure something out and Luffy and Yamato vs Kaido wil happen

[turbid pewter]

yesh

yamato might get a bounty after wano i think

he's strong, son of a yonko, member of another emperor's crew, etc.

*I assumed yamato might join sh

[pastel summit]

I've been wracking my brain trying to figure out where the BM stuff is going. I was really confident that Luffy would be mostly defeating Kaido on his own, some help from Yamato and whatever else happened before, so I was investing in Kid and Law beating BM as a parallel to that. but I think now I can remove that. I still think it's possible, but not super likely. And I think what may end up happening, is literally what everyone predicted since the start of Wano. Kaido vs BM, BM weakens Kaido, and is either completely defeated or escapes.

[dark palm]

Killer/Law/Hawkins/Kid is still possible

[turbid pewter]

yes

[zinc iris]

The only thing I'm confident in is that Luffy won't come back on his own because the point is that he can't win alone

[turbid pewter]

hawkins might switch after seeing the astrological predictions

[dark palm]

what would make hawkins switch is seeing law alive, holding his heart

[gloomy canyon]

Ugh, I just don't know how I feel about Kaido and BM damaging each other Even tho at this point, it very well may be needed. This chapter only solidified my belief that BM will be taken down in this arc. She's locked in for good, wrecking the siblings, trying to kill Tama, and Kid calling her his prey and pretty much vise versa. Law is headed there, Killer and Hawkins may come as well.

[pastel summit]

this panel got me juba.

[desert sedge]

Oh yeah about zeus here's my take on why he will be alive. Since we saw this chapter that nami's climatact is in hera's mouth. I believe nami already had retrieve zeus body. But the problem is bigmom might have taken his soul already. What i think will happen is nami gonna revive him with big mom's vivre card. I believe nami still has half of bigmom's vivre card which she used to order king baum when they're trying to escape wci. The vivre card contains bigmom's soul, so what if nami uses bigmoms vivre card on zeus dead body and zeus gets revived? He probably still be weak so nami feeds him to return to his original size.

[pastel summit]

It's just, the line has been crossed now. All we need is Kaido witnessing it.

[dark palm]

a deal made on a whim like that is destined to fail anyways

kaido + big mom

it really seems like they fought for 3 days, got drunk, and just randomly decided to team up lol

[gloomy canyon]

Her trying to kill Tama here is also pretty representative of that. She can and will easily turn on Kaido

[dark palm]

so given their history it's understandable for big mom to at least want to confront kaido

[worldly anvil]

Like I said, BM is bipolar af

[pastel summit]

for sure, but no longer fighting Luffy, Yamato will not fight Kaido 1 v 1, I think this is more for narrative. She might try, but she's obviously going to fail. I think it sets up his subordinates contacting him, telling him BM has now gone psycho mode.

[turbid pewter]

yeah since she came over her mothering mode and try to kill a kid

[gloomy canyon]

Would be fitting right after the Kaido fb as well

When we potentially see the dynamics of their crew back then

[dark palm]

she'll probably attack kaido in a rage

and he'll taunt her over luffy

[pastel summit]

hell, it might even tie into Tama. She tames Bao Huang, uses her ability to actively show Kaido what BM did.

[dark palm]

tama isn't that big brain

[pastel summit]

Usopp and Nami are

[gloomy canyon]

don't know if Tama would want to rely on Kaido to come take out BM

[dark palm]

do agree on usopp shooting a dango into baohuang's mouth though

that could be his tempo-turning moment

[turbid pewter]

If tama's fruit awakens then she might tame zoans?

[gloomy canyon]

But also, it's just hard for me, because Kid and Law facing BM just seems so set in stone now. But Luffy losing this chapter ig makes them losing possible as well

[pastel summit]

There's a reason Tama wants to go to the live floor. Because she has an order she wants to give to the gifters.

[desert sedge]

Usopp's gonna snipe all mary's. Since he's the first one who noticed that the broadcast are coming out from those animal mary's

[worldly anvil]

"everyone kill Kaido"

[hollow grotto]

It'd be great if he did so while they thought he couldn't see/hear them, surprising them out of nowhere with a dango

[gloomy canyon]

keep it serious in this channel please

[pastel summit]

Luffy losing opened up a lot. I was set on Kid + Law as a narrative parallel, because Luffy having no rivals even remotely capable of what he is able to is such a boring conclusion. And it fits, with the whole "Luffy is a D with CoC, Kid has CoC and Law is a D" so like, they are 2 parts to the whole that is luffy, so the 2 of them combined do what luffy can. BUT, Idk how convinced I am Luffy is gonna come back and just, solo kaido. He has to have a different plan, and there's no water weakness like with croc.

and we've had enough powerups for this arc.

We don't need Luffy coming back with some other uber powerup that allows him to truly defeat Kaido.

[polar bison]

yea but

[dark palm]

he'll reflect on this experience and find some way to harness this CoC a bit more

but it won't be just him, that's for sure

[desert sedge]

Yeah i agree, that would be too much powerup in one arc if he still gonna get one

[polar bison]

Luffy is still gonna defeat Kaidou, so he still needs a rival remotely close to him, so Kidd still needs to have a hella good performance against BM and probs unlock the ability to CoC infuse

[pastel summit]

I'm sure Kid will still do something relevant against BM, same with Law. I don't think Kid or Law will be brought down how Luffy was, where Luffy had a really smug attitude "heh, I got it from here guys. I will kaido". I think they don't suffer from that as much. Law definitely doesn't. Kid might, but he doesn't have some superpower to fall back on that enables it.

[worldly anvil]

I think after fighting Kaido, he realise how shit he was so he's more cautious

[dusky acorn]

I think they'll fair well because the nature of their fight isn't like Luffy's 1v1 duel where it was merely brute force until one side shows which is stronger, which was obviously Kaido.
They'll have plenty of teamplay at their disposal again

[pastel summit]

but, I don't imagine we're concluding this arc without Kaido interacting with BM in some manner. Which means both conscious and able to generate some conflict. Which is why I think they may fight.

[turbid pewter]

Improved CoC, Fruit Awakening, Mastering gear 4th so he would be able to use it for a long time are the probabilities for luffy to learn to defeat kaido

[pastel summit]

and the difference here between when they previous did it, is that they did it uninterrupted before. but now there are 3rd parites (the supernova + SHs) who would be willing to interrupt that fight.

[desert sedge]

I still can't think of a way for luffy to bring down kaido tbh. Hopefully he just run out of haki on that last page. Otherwise if he didn't and already have used g4 with coc coating and still not enough then idk how.

[dusky acorn]

I don't see a strong reason for Big Mom to want to leave Kid and Law and go to the roof, especially since she already picked Kid over going back to the rooftop. Maybe Kaido is the one who comes down now and intersects with Yamato at a middle floor, which then leads to a Big Mom interaction

[zinc iris]

We don't know if she can't already

[turbid pewter]

oh yes

[zinc iris]

They didn't even try on a regular zoan

[turbid pewter]

they must try it ;-;

[tall abyss]

I'm annoyed with Nami didn't get a fight or Zeus yet

[desert sedge]

Usopp said it doesn't work on zoan. So i assume they tried it.

[zinc iris]

Did he say that?

[pastel summit]

Yeah shim. that's what I said. Kaido is the one who will come down. His subordinates are aware of her betrayal, which sets up them contacting him. Since Kaido is no longer fighting, and his only immediate future engagement would be Yamato, who is more than likely just going to talk, as opposed to fight, I think it's likely Kaido is the one who comes down after being contacted, which happens after we get the kaido flashback, which is triggered by Yamato getting to the roof.

[desert sedge]

If i remember correctly yes. He said something about tama's dango not working on zoan. Let me check

[pastel summit]

and in the meantime, Luffy and Carrot reflect on what they did during the raid, and think of different ways to approach it. Luffy I don't think is gonna try and solo him. Carrot I don't think is going to focus on revenge, instead try and do something relevant to the raid succeeding.

[zinc iris]

Oh

[polar bison]

definitely agree, but frankly I do not think there’s enough time before Wano ends to do a fight like that justice, and idt there’s enough space on Onigashima to prevent it from killing everyone else nearby this time around, since they’ll both be enraged relative to the last time.

so I suppose i’m leaning back towards one of my original predictions abt how this’ll all end: BM killing Kaidou.

When Kaidou loses, I think it’ll only end up fitting that he’s scared for his life. man’s a coward at heart. and at that point, if BM enters the scene,,, she’ll be able to take his soul.

only fitting that the pirate who emphasizes betrayal the most would get betrayed by his ally, in the end

[pastel summit]

Well, they fought on onigashima previously, so space argument I don't think matters. I don't think we are getting a full fight between them. Like I said, the reason they stalemated previously is because it was a strict 1 v 1, none of kaido's subordinates interfered, and none of BM's were present. But now we have people would genuinely be willing to get into the middle of Kaido vs BM, who WOULD interrupt it.

[dusky acorn]

I do suppose this opens the door for that, maybe the Big Mom/Kaido interaction is somehow pushed back until he's on his last legs so she can do the favour and kill him

[desert sedge]

Here

[dusky acorn]

That still leaves Big Mom pretty unscatched though, whereas if the fight were to happen earlier she could be whittled down by him

Also makes her the real last villain of this arc in a sense?

[polar bison]

this would be after shes fought Kidd and Law (and the SHs?)

idk what her condition would be, but this is the point where I imagine her fucking off, probably with a poneglyph or Robin in tow

[pastel summit]

I might be jumping back on my BB theory tbh. Idk how likely the Kid + Law stuff is to play out.

[zinc iris]

I realized that if this continues at ground level then the rest of the big mom pirates might be involved too

[zinc iris]

Awakened tama be like

[pastel summit]

only caveat being, we get the roof crew again. except with the captains only. killer engaged, zoro OOC. So Kaido drives BM off Onigashima, then Kid + Law + Luffy vs Kaido.

I'll give oda this, he's done a real good job of making this unpredictable.

[polar bison]

BM has always been the biggest wildcard and he’s finally putting her to use🥰

[dusky acorn]

Ever since Kid and then Law switched gears onto Big Mom, there's been 10 or so pages (or parts of those pages) dedicated to setting it up, until where we are now. I'd be sad if it didn't reach the victorious conclusion I want from Kid/Law.
Maybe expecting the current most set-up outcome which is predictable is wrong on my end though, given the recent track record.

In that case, if Kaido comes down to fight Big Mom, it could be done where Kid/Law are temporarily unconscious from their fight with her, (like Luffy is right now) so they don't end up interfering with that scuffle, and then wake up to follow through on Kaido after their confrontation is over

Otherwise I can't imagine even Kid and Law trying to approach a battle of behemoths

[pastel summit]

I can imagine them working together to split them up again. I'm sure they will do something, but idk if I'm as invested in them beating her.

[desert sedge]

If kidd and law somehow defeats bigmom, does that count as luffy's win? Cause i remember on punk hazard luffy says he wanted to take all of the yonko's down.

Or were gonna get another arc focusing on him defeating bigmom?

[pastel summit]

I don't think Luffy is beating them all

[dusky acorn]

Yeah, I think it does. Even if you don't count Kid as an official alliance member, Law is, so by extension that's a Luffy W too. And Luffy still took part of a team fight against her on the roof (though not actually attacked her)

[desert sedge]

If bigmom already gets defeated this arc, and somehow luffy still wants to fight her and proceeds to defeat her in the future. I think his win wont be that much impactful since bigmom has already been defeated.

[grizzled fog]

I don’t think luffy is gonna go seeking out a fight with an already beaten big mom

[dusky acorn]

Yeah, Big Mom's whole existence here and now is a +1 towards her not being a main villain after this arc. Very firmly believe Oda will find a way to make her fade out of that position in the series so as to not make things repetitive going forward

And I think even Luffy is well aware by now beggars can't be choosers when it comes to taking down Yonko.
He'll be content with his alliance taking care of Big Mom just like he's fine with them taking care of Orochi, the officers, etc by themselves.

[grizzled fog]

Luffy trying to still fight big mom because he didn’t get a chance to is actually incredibly dumb, what’s the point of allies at all at that point?

[polar bison]

maybe expecting the current most set up outcome which is predictable is wrong on my end tho

i disagree with this. I think Oda’s shown throughout Onigashima so far that he’s totally going to follow up on much and more of what he’s set up, he’s just doing it all in a very very roundabout way for a lot of it, with a bunch of twists and turns in the middle.

it’s why i’m still,,, preeeetty confident Ulti and P1 will be up within the next 10-15 chapters, to finally go down to Nami/Usopp.

[pastel summit]

how long do you imagine this raid is going on if you think ulti and p1 are getting up and then fighting specifically nami and usopp?

[polar bison]

it took Jack like an hour or two to recover from the Sulongs

[pastel summit]

I mean in terms of chapters.

[polar bison]

1050ish

[pastel summit]

if you think we're still getting full fledged fights from all these people again.

[polar bison]

oda finishes off fights when he’s ready to hella quick

[pastel summit]

yeah, but if you're saying all these fights that have been set up need to have conclusions, then there's a lot.

fights have shifted, objectives have changed. I don't think nami/usopp beating p1/ulti adds anything

especially when the only way they're winning is P1 and Ulti not being able to fight properly at all.

[copper frost]

the chase between them has gone on for too long, this being the natural conclusion with a stronger opponent actually beating page one and ulti down was the most natural solution for oda while upholding how chaotic the situation/war is, this resolution is cool

[polar bison]

assuming the siblings get back up, the fight would serve to put them down for good in a narrative sense, and for specifically nami/usopp it’d demonstrate that they are worthy of being in a crew tangling w yonkou

which is like,,, the point of onigashima fights for the SHs

[copper frost]

tangling with a yonko crew i can live with, but they got to incur the wrath of a yonko themselves, even if they do get back up again, i'd say it will all culminate in a battle royale all below the dome

[pastel summit]

they're worthy because they beat people who couldn't fight properly? WHat does that prove? Results based analysis is meaningless if the objective is "they can win" if the only way they can win is if someone else defeats them, then you wait until they're barely able to move again, and then you beat them down again.

They don't need to individually beat them. The point is that the crew can go in, and come out victorious.

[waxen light]

But BM ending them serves as a good way to put them down for good right now. And Usopp and Nami stalled those two who would've been wreaking havoc elsewhere while turning Smile users to their cause. It's perfectly satisfactory now and they're both going to continue turning the tide for the Alliance. They're definitely worthy as it stands.

[copper frost]

they have held their own for an extended period of time against opponents who are as powerful as the supernova

[dusky acorn]

True, I guess I can't use this as a blanket argument if Luffy defeating Kaido is absolutely going to happen at the end of the day, despite that alone being very predictabile.

I can agree with you on conclusions still being followed through on (Ulti/P1 getting defeated somehow, BM betraying BP, etc), with the central areas being different from our expectations, which is basically what we read the story for, to know how.

I like how Ulti/P1 were defeated because it still showed the spirit and conviction from Usopp and especially Nami were still very much there

Even if they didn't get the final blows, the emotion they had to protect Tama and deliver retribution for Namis case remains

But that being said P1 at least may get up due to his twitching

[copper frost]

honestly, these two have been as brave as can be and faced them as hard as they can, especially usopp with his broken skull

[pure raven]

Ussop did fine in protecting tama, hes just not a close combat fighter.

[onyx badger]

wdy guys think of sabo?

[west maple]

I always thought he was a bit of a weird addition. Kinda makes Ace's death feel like a bit of cop out. Luffy's big brother with cool powers dies and more or less immediately after he gets a new big brother with the same cool power and a different hat.

[maiden terrace]

same, i think luffy is prob beating shanks, kaido and blackbeard while kidd beat bm

[maiden terrace]

true, i honestly think sabo is cooler than ace

[west maple]

I've no problem with him in the story but like I said it just seems like Oda was trying to have his cake and eat it with killing Ace but not losing a cool DF

[maiden terrace]

True, i wish Sabo had a different fruit and the mera mera was never introduced after ace's death

or maybe the WB pirates had it in their possesion instead of Doffy

[pure raven]

Well sabo got that sepcific df that ace had because ACE had that df .

[west maple]

you telling me it doesn't cheapen Ace's death at least a bit by having him replaced by essentially the same character 2 arcs after he's dead?

[pastel summit]

No, because they're not the same character at all. None of these are theories.

[west maple]

My theory is he's been captured and the marines will try to execute him because he serves the same exact purpose as Ace in the story which is why Oda didn't bother giving him his own gimmick

[vital nest]

sabo is legit bootleg ace and he ruined the entire impact of aces death, hes the same character. its luffys new kind big bro with fire powers thats there to look out for him.

[ember trench]

https://tenor.com/view/squidward-throw-away-brain-spongebob-gif-8612783

[pure raven]

So your theory in this #manga-theories channel is that this ace clone sabo with same fire powers will come to save luffy from falling down onigishima

[midnight heron]

So the onishigama raid fails, what’s the point of it if it does fail?

[ember trench]

Why would it fail

[midnight heron]

Say if it does

[ember trench]

It won’t

[midnight heron]

I don’t think it would fail either

However regardless if it fails, the biggest thing here is post wano and the events that will be revealed

[wicked cave]

did the manga just ended bc luffy died

[midnight heron]

I think luffy will get back up

Via arm

[rare cradle]

I have a small theory on Zeus... Since BM took out her soul form him but he is still able to live he will be seriously weakened. One thing we do know though is that Nami has a piece of BM’s vivre card that is special because it has part of her soul in it. Thus this leads me to believe that Nami will feed a weaken Zeus the vivre card and he will regain some power but not all of it. Now Zeus will be a proper upgrade to Nami’s arsenal and won’t be too nerfed or buffed.

[pure raven]

Nah luffy is just in disbelieve that he dropped his guard again and gell off the island

[thorn crypt]

Who do you guys think is gonna save luffy in the next chapter?

[visual merlin]

momo

[fringe tide]

So what power up will nami get now that zues is gone?

[weak arrow]

Her climatact went into Hera's mouth. Safe to say a weakened version of Zeus probably escaped into it.

[fringe tide]

Also probably momo or sanji since theyre the only ones that can fly and marco is busy

[weak arrow]

If he gets saved by a person that's on Onigashima, Momo is the best bet.

[fringe tide]

Wait did it go into the mouth? I thought she only ate the clouds, i need to reread lol

[weak arrow]

A lot of people thought the climatact was a speedline. I can see why.

[fringe tide]

Ah cool thank you!

[visual merlin]

oh could that be a speed line

[weak arrow]

No it's the climatact and you know it

[thorn crypt]

Momo saving Luffy would be cool as hell

[visual merlin]

but maaaaaaaybe

[rugged fern]

I think the flee saving him in the next chapters would be awesome if it happens

Like imagine him falling at the flee’s ship?

[runic rapids]

omg the naruto fans are going to go crazy today

😭

[weak arrow]

I highly, and I mean highly doubt the fleet is showing up right now

[scarlet urchin]

There are a lot of more realistic things that can save him. I think we already have enough options that we don't need to add even more characters

[spring perch]

Most likely he will just fall to Wano

[rugged fern]

If your talking about me I didn’t even watch naruto but sure enlighten us what do you think will happen?

[runic rapids]

if you didnt watch naruto then im not talking about you........

[scarlet urchin]

I think Luffy shouldn't be able to get back up on Onigashima too easily. Him seeing the threat of the flying Onigashima will really help rising up the stakes of the final fight.

So yeah, he should either fall on the coast, or be saved by people at sea. (Like Law's crew in their submarine, or the Big mom pirates maybe)

[runic rapids]

https://twitter.com/Greiish/status/1393185217041534982?s=20

[scarlet urchin]

Momonosuke could fly him later, but right now he just doesn't have enough control on his fruit for that.

[pure raven]

I wonder if his grand fleet is going to show up at this point his vivre card should start burning

[scarlet urchin]

You know navigating takes time.

[pure raven]

More since his first ko

Its been a month since his first ko

Aces vivre card started burn while he was in jail so maybe

[weak arrow]

They'd have to get up the waterfall and contest with the BM pirates

[scarlet urchin]

They might know he's in trouble, sure. But Wano is really hard to enter in. If they wanted to come in, I think it would have been teased before.

I can imagine some of them coming after the battle, though. Especially the ones that were at Reverie as they could help bring back Vivi into the story

[weak arrow]

Yeah that could be interesting. They could break the news instead of Yamato.

or maybe X drake

[scarlet urchin]

I'm still not sure what the role of the big mom pirate is for this arc, though

[fringe tide]

Man imagine bartos reaction if luffys vivra cards starts to burn away

[scarlet urchin]

To be fair, his crew must freak out everytime it changes just a little

I wonder if there will be a sub-plot taking place on Wano Mainland now that Luffy is down there. A lot of characters were left there after all.
The big mom pirates could help a lot against Onigashima's fall.

[light python]

luffy doesn't look that messed up though

[pure raven]

That dude is unconscious

[sonic plaza]

next chapter will prob show us exactly how this happened

[light python]

yeah luffy gets messed up all the time

[pure raven]

Hipe so

And also that he saved

[pure raven]

Yup without him geetting screwed it doesnt feel like op

[sonic plaza]

i think act 3 will end in the next 5 chapters after kidd gets knocked out and yamato confronts kaido

[rugged fern]

Yeah thats what I’m saying even though its almost impossible cause its gonna take them forever to come

[sonic plaza]

kidd stands no chance against BM especially with an upgraded Hera (metal conducts electricity, so he would get shocked if she hit his metal arm)

[light python]

kidd can't take big mom on his own

[rugged fern]

The same exact face he had was seen in many chapters before and he always woke up so I don’t think he’s that injured since it did happen more than once

[sonic plaza]

regardless. he is still going to the mainland for a bit, so he cant fight for ~10 chapters

[scarlet urchin]

Next chapter is the end of volume 100, I doubt Oda will take time to explain us what happened. It's more likely to be a big cliff hanger with even more things that go wrong for the raid

[light python]

id be down for that

[sonic plaza]

yeah maybe

if act 3 did end, then we would get an interlude

[light python]

yeah it'd be a nice change of pace

[pure raven]

Yeah all the injuries and fatugue wouldnt affect luffy until he wins

[pure raven]

Yeah agree and hope that act4 start with kaido flashback

[sonic plaza]

yeah

[rugged fern]

Yeah cause I think in the fight when Zoro and law and the others were there he has the face and woke up in like 2 pages

[rugged fern]

But I still hope that we he does fall down he falls on the fleet’s ship

[dusk harbor]

imagine this was real

[sonic plaza]

yamato 1b?

[dusk harbor]

[scarlet urchin]

Sanji not even at 990.000 for that sweet reverse germa 66. 😦

[pure raven]

However the issue now is whether luffy will fall into the sea / in wano land

Or someone will save him .

[dusk harbor]

how long is the slow mode

[sonic plaza]

theres no way in hell that momo or yamato save him

[pure raven]

Well increase carrots bounty

[rugged fern]

Yeah il just for the leaks

[pure raven]

Carrot have more chances of saving him

[rugged fern]

Yeah thats for sure

[sonic plaza]

true

[vestal isle]

i think he falls on land

[sonic plaza]

me too. it would be more interesting

[rugged fern]

I just hope that yamato joins luffy’s crew because that would be freaking awesome

[scarlet urchin]

The story would get actually more interesting if no one can bring Luffy back up directly, but just save him from death

[pure raven]

Yeah more likely
As it will put pressure on lufffy to stop kaido and the final fight in wano would be cool

[vestal isle]

yeah idk how he would get back up but that would be sick either way

[pure raven]

Meat is all he need

[scarlet urchin]

Luffy is saved by the octopus, then proceeds to eat him to regain strength

[vestal isle]

nah lmaooo no way. unless...??

[light python]

***octopus flies up the cloud and beats kaido

[vestal isle]

nah lol no way. unless......

[pure raven]

Octopus vs fish

[heavy escarp]

Luffy will be saved by the Pig god

[pure raven]

[rugged fern]

[light python]

pig god's child became super strong and destroys kaido

[sonic plaza]

here is my theory for rest of wano
Act 3:

1. More scenes of the alliance getting beat up (like Kid). Maybe Yamato confront her dad
   Interlude: Update on Sabo, Vivi, Boa and maybe bounty reveals for King + Tobi Roppo
   Act 4:
2. Kaido and more Yamato backstory
3. Luffy lands on Wano mainland and tries to come back while thinking of ways to get stronger with a new form
4. Sanji and Zoro confront King and Queen. Zoro gets healed. Chopper and Marco possibly get knocked out
5. Sanji fights King. Zoro tries to go to rooftop. Queen goes somewhere
6. Kid finds Law and they go for BM again.
7. Start to see conclusions to the Tobi Roppo 1v1s
8. Zoro finds Orochi and finishes him
9. Luffy confronts Kaido again with Yamato.
   Interlude: more world updates
   Act 5:
10. Final fights against King and Queen
11. CP-0 does something big (idk what)
12. Kid and Law beat BM
13. Luffy beats Kaido (maybe???) and Zoro kills him (maybe??)
14. Direct aftermath
15. Party
16. New Bounties
17. Something crazy happens and Wano ends on a cliffhanger

But, I must say: We really cannot predict anything that will happen between the people on the Live Stage (King, Queen, Zoro, Sanji, Chopper, Marco)

[bright trench]

what you guys think?

[pure raven]

Well i hope that it all ends by act 4 and act5 is from point 5 to point 8

[light python]

possible

[pure raven]

Link.?

[neat sky]

man i hate cliff hangers

[bright trench]

https://www.opfanpage.com/2021/05/12/kaido-yamato-black-maria-are-all-the-same-race/?fbclid=IwAR08yAtDLttMJrf86Z71oBPbBpvzxF_qS8XVEpSlGxyYo_e9xGZrkWlluD4

[scarlet urchin]

Isn't Black Maria in her thirties ?!?

[pure raven]

We all

Cliffhangers with break specially

[neat sky]

maybe they wll be like meanwhile in reveri ?

[neat sky]

oh. thats da worst

[scarlet urchin]

Black maria is 29 years old from the Wiki. Yamato was alive 20 years old during Oden Execution.

[dusk harbor]

when does the oden flash back end again?

[neat sky]

at chapter 900 smt

[pure raven]

973 maybe

[pure raven]

I agree with this that kaido and yamao are from different race

But it is said that horns in one piece are like molar

But i dint thinks thats the case with kaido and yamao as there horns coming from the head

!horns

[lone hedge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486983010025996299/703457603887300608/unknown.png

[light python]

is yamato a fish

[vestal rampart]

how tall is yamato?

[pure raven]

Same height luffy

[craggy pumice]

double as tall as luffy*

[vestal rampart]

yall think luffy will become much taller?

[light python]

no

[craggy pumice]

maybe 10 cm

[amber oar]

My personal theory is that Yamato's height matches Oden's (3.82 m/12'6")

[gloomy canyon]

It's not possible, Maria is only 1 year older than Yamato lol

[zinc iris]

Black Maria is too young for it to be possible

[amber oar]

ye I thought on the possibility until Maria's age was revealed lol

[zinc iris]

She does look the part

Especially as the horns have the same coloring scheme (red tapering to skin color)

[remote imp]

Kaido fucking a one year old now?

[sleek vale]

What if what if Big Mom is her mother

[bright trench]

lmao

[sleek vale]

Has Big Mom even come across her yet?

[bright trench]

Instead of being Mom and Daughter, they seem like sisters

[grizzled fog]

Big mom has referred to kaido as a little brother....their relationship is different from that

[sleek vale]

That's fair

[bright trench]

Yamato sure will help Luffy to fight Kaido, and then flashback started

[amber oar]

Probably Yamato's mother won't be relevant, Oda doesn't do much parent revealing unless it fulfills a purpose

[vestal isle]

oda doesnt care about mothers

[amber oar]

He's even given hints on never revealing Luffy's biological mother. By all accounts his mom is Dadan

[sleek vale]

--Has character named Big Mom--

[vestal isle]

yamato's mom will probably be in her flashback and it'll be kaido's fault that she's dead

[vestal isle]

lmaoo whoops

[half hawk]

Bruhhh

[vestal isle]

you know what I mean though most people's mothers are not important and if they are important they're dead

[sleek vale]

I totally understood just giving you a hard time

[vestal isle]

lmaoo yeah i get it

[amber oar]

Big Mom isn't important for being someone's mother anyway, she's important by herself so the point stands

[tired lynx]

probaby

[coral narwhal]

thoughts?

will wano really have 5 acts?

[green stratus]

i think with the most recent chapter kaido is going after luffy's crew (death flags for all)

[ember trench]

It will have three

[pure raven]

Yes if luffy is out and everyone else is busy it's possible that he'll go after the crew

I belive kidd will be out cold by the next episode

Could it be possible that the crew gets captured and luffy rescues them bcs I don't see anyway for luffy to make a quick comeback while on the other hand it's very probable that kaido going down will break everyone's will to fight since luffy is defeated

Maybe Yamato might reach the roof and keep him busy until luffy makes a return
Looking at this im pretty sure we need a new gear maybe one utilising advanced conquerer's haki or df awakening for luffy

[frosty brook]

Momo sees that kaido clapped luffy and goes to save him ez

[pure raven]

Luffy is already falling is momo even fast enough

He is a dragon so possible

Luffy has taken lots of damage already, how is he gonna beat Kaido who seems to not be too bothered by any damage he has taken

Oda hacks

Luffy always takes a lot of damage

They need shanks

Against strong opponents crocodile luci katakuri etc

[stark tundra]

he has plot HP

whenever he gets back up he comes back w 60% hp

[pure raven]

He has milk and meat instant recovery

[grizzled fog]

Why would oda spend all these chapters setting up a big mom fight with kid to have him lose that quickly

[pure raven]

Why would Oda spend all those chapters setting up a Kaido fight with Luffy to have him lose that quickly

[grizzled fog]

‘Cept we all know luffy is guaranteed to bounce back and go back to defeat kaido, not a great comparison

[weak arrow]

So a lot of people seem to think Page one and/or Ulti are down for the count. It's understandble at least because of how powerful Big mom is. However, I really think people are underestimating the Tobi Roppo just because they aren't on the friendly side. These are guys that can easily stand next to Killer, Drake, Law, Kid, etc.

First we obviously have Nami and Usopp distracting Ulti and Page One. During their distraction, we have a huge moment for Nami in the arc. Nami tells Ulti that Luffy is going to become Pirate King even if it kills her. This is pretty reminiscent of Usopp's moment in Usopp and Chopper vs Mr. 4 and Miss Merry Christmas. We even have Usopp getting his face smashed in again. Luckily Tama saves her.

We then have Ulti realizing the importance of Tama and how she's controlling all the gifters. We then have Nami blast Ulti with lightning, and she states she needs stronger lightning.

Eventually we have Ulti and Page One catch up to Nami&co when BM is right around the corner. We then have Ulti practically ignore BM and attack only Nami&co. She takes down Komachiyo and slaps Tama around. Nami then has another great moment ignoring the threat of Big Mom who hates her guts just to take down Ulti who just hurt her friend. We then see BM seemingly 1 shot Ulti with her cannon.

Afterwards, we see BM weaken Zeus and Hera tries to eat him. However, Nami ends up sticking her climatact inside Hera's mouth. We have previously seen Zeus being able to be stored in the climatact. A weakened Zeus escaped into Nami's climatact. Why would Oda specifically make Nami's climatact go inside Hera's mouth? A red herring? Pfft.

Now that Ulti/Usopp/Nami are on foot again, they'll have to run to the main stage. Ulti/Page One will eventually get up and chase after them. They are significantly weakened, so now they are better opponents for our weaker strawhats. Usopp has mostly focused fire on Page one & Nami on Ulti.

Conclusion: Nami and usopp will get the final blows on ulti and page one

Nami now has the stronger lightning to take down Ulti

[cedar sinew]

agree with this. Hera coming out and Zeus being abandoned is the obvious setup for Nami to permanently get Zeus. And Nami is definitely playing some sort of major role in taking down one of Kaidos forces so Ulti is a good match. I guess the only complaint is that BM interfered with the fight and it can't really be credited to Namis win but had to be done to close to power gap. Usopp finishing off page 1 would fit the theme as well.

[pure raven]

It's a shame that they had to be nerfed for Nami and Usopp to stand any chance against them

Really just goes to show that Oda has to turn the 'fate' element up to a 10 if the Straw Hats are gonna make it through this story

Also validates people's complaints that haki is something most (if not all) of the Straw Hats should've picked up over the timeskip

[cedar sinew]

Im somewhat disappointed as well but if you really think about it, taking out Tobbi Roppo even with the nerf is fairly impressive. As long as the top fighters of the SH crew can eventually match the strengths of yonko commanders (which is what it's looking like), I'd be fine.

[short pilot]

Has Luffy lost to the same opponent twice before?

[cedar sinew]

I expect a little bit more from Usopp as his primary role is fight related but Nami is completely expected

[cedar sinew]

crocodile

once in a sand pit then again falling off from the palace

[weak arrow]

Franky needing the general to beat a Tobi Roppo and Robin/Brook being needed to beat black maria really just shows how strong they are

[cedar sinew]

like, Nami and Chopper never reaching that high end of strength even by EoS is basically what I expect to happen

[copper frost]

He fought Lucci twice too right, once initially at the Galley La office iirc?

[cedar sinew]

yeah but only lost once

not really lost technically, but got blown away

[weak arrow]

I mean, he sorta did vs katakuri but that's debatable.

[queen arrow]

Luffy is going to be alright

[pure raven]

Didnt he got blow away by enel

[copper frost]

Also, I have a feeling that everything getting up into the live floor converging there would become a battle royale and I'm down for it

[weak arrow]

Yeah he lost once to enel when he wrapped his arm in gold.

[pure raven]

And ran out steam against doffy

[weak arrow]

Losing once is common. Losing twice is not.

[copper frost]

Those are not knockouts though

[cedar sinew]

I wouldn't even count that for Enel

[queen arrow]

Luffy is just pulling the usual Luffy maneuver

[copper frost]

Like the case with Croc and now Kaido

Luffy got hampered by Enel but not enough to incur a knock-out

[cedar sinew]

Kaido's 2nd knockout definitely feels more nuanced than Crocodile's though. Just judging by the monologues it's more of a "You're not going to defy your fate" vs "What a bothersome dude", more of an underestimation for Crocodile while Kaido seems to know what exactly he's doing

[pure raven]

Wait didnt luffy got ko'd aswell just before zoro used ashura

[queen arrow]

yeah

[pure raven]

So he got ko'd 3 times

Luffy sank to a new low

[weak arrow]

Someone had a compilation earlier, he's been ko'd 5 times this raid or something

[copper frost]

Yeah, two completely different cases, Kaido is ecstatic at the chance of fighting an opponent he's having fun with and seemingly is disappointed by Luffy's inability to do so whole Croc is straight up dismissing him

Adam, that's including the one at the beginning of Wano with Kaido knocking him out too

[queen arrow]

this aspect of Luffy is always pretty impressive and fun to see for me

[pure raven]

4th time if you count running out of haki

[queen arrow]

he always bounces back

[copper frost]

Love seeing Luffy beat up and coming back stronger, it's not a low in his case

[pure raven]

I wonder if luffy is part saiyan getting that zenkai boost when he get his ass beaten

[worthy belfry]

any zeus still alive theory?

[weak arrow]

Scroll up

to like 45 minutes ago @worthy belfry

[humble robin]

whadya think if shanks catches ruffy midair like 12 years saving in the water?

cus oda said shanks will appear this year and half year is already over

[cedar sinew]

no

[grizzled fog]

He said he’d make a move

[cedar sinew]

and not favorable to use Oda comments like that for evidence lol

[silk night]

Is luffy going to awaken his devil fruit and ''Bounce'' back to life??

[upbeat dust]

what if luffy gets saved by jinbe before he drowns??

[grizzled fog]

Jinbe seems pretty occupied with who’s who. And leaving him then to go down below onigashima would probably effectively end his matchup, which would be a horribly disappointing and anticlimactic end to his fight

Anyway we don’t know if they’re above the sea now

[pseudo citrus]

I have to expect that some of these fights will get off screened, but whoever gets cut will be very disappointing... gonna have to count on the anime if that happens

[grizzled fog]

I agree there’ll be a lot of offscreening, probably the majority of the actual flying six fights is my prediction, with only the conclusions being shown

[visual fossil]

it would be like dressrosa

just final blows

[pseudo citrus]

I want to see jinbe and franky fight as much as anyone else, but just cutting to them fighting after showing luffy get bonked just feels like bad pacing... if it was gonna be shown, it would be before luffy fell

[heavy escarp]

Luffy will fall into Germa66 ship. Remember they also with Jinbe while Luffy escaping from Wano

[cerulean coyote]

Oda cares about female characters' mother (Nico Olvia, Bellmere, mother caramel). Also Usop, Sanji, Momo or Ace's mothers were presented. Other issue is that are all dead...

[sonic plaza]

kid would obviously just come back like Luffy does. Keep in mind that Hera's lightning attacks will be very effective against Kid, because his metal monstrosity would conduct the electricity and shock him

imo, Act 3 should end with Luffy, Kid, and Zoro down to create a suspenseful cliffhanger and actually provide some challenges against the hardest foes ever

"one to go"

[grizzled fog]

? Who’s the one left

[sonic plaza]

kid

[grizzled fog]

If anything, kid’s metal would allow him to deal with the lightning attacks easier that way, he can block them easier and direct them away from himself

[sonic plaza]

if he is smart enough to do that

[proud tree]

yes.. thats how he catched zeus in the metalbox

[sonic plaza]

that was law's idea

[grizzled fog]

Btw we saw him blocking lightning attacks earlier, the only problem was the lightning was a homie and thus went around his metal

[proud tree]

now kid knows about it

[grizzled fog]

Anyway kid isn’t stupid

Not as much as luffy anyway.

[proud tree]

kids smarter then ruffy ... I hope

[grizzled fog]

He’s definitely as reckless and brazen as him, but he’s not as stupid

[sonic plaza]

the point that i am trying to make is that: if kid fights BM alone rn, he will be knocked out soon just like luffy

there is definitely room for him to get a power up (like awakening or adv conq), but i doubt that would happen soon

[dusky acorn]

The reason I don't see Kid/Law being unconscious is because Big Mom wouldn't hesitate to just kill them afterwards, which we know shouldn't be happening to them at this stage of the story.

Big Mom just had Zeus 'killed', was ready to murder Tama and the others, and the maser she shot at Ulti would have also killed any normal person. The only reason we don't believe it did is because she's an ancient zoan.

Luffy's life is only safe because Kaido got lenient and knocked him off the entire island

[sonic plaza]

what if:
Kid gets knocked down and BM tries to kill him but Law uses the Ope Ope to teleport him out

[proud tree]

it would boost kids confidence as ruffys rival to become pirate king if he managed somewhat against big mom

[cyan berry]

Luffy and Kid have confidence if nothing else

nothing will ever bring it down for either of them

[weak arrow]

Take them for later and try to get their soul to make strong homies

[dusky acorn]

Big Mom could also just do that right on the spot by taking their whole lifespan, right.
I don't think she needs to wait on killing them, but maybe that's how Oda would write it, since their lives do need to be kept in tact at the end of the day somehow.

But basically, I just think it's an unfair leap to make Law/Kid suffer the same fate as a parallel to Luffy's outcome when he's falling to the ground in mere seconds in-story time and it's the cliffhanger. Meaning it'll very likely be cut back to right next chapter where his safety will already be explained. Thereby we'll already have moved on to the next development for Luffy and he'll probably be fine very soon

Don't think his unconsciousness is going to be some huge, lasting thing where we should be getting up in pitchforks at Law/Kid to suffer the same thing

[weak arrow]

Nah she can’t take it unless they’re willing or scared. So she’d have to threaten them with the lives of their crews. I am a firm believer that Kaido and big mom will meet up again, and I believe that will be a failure on Kid/Law’s part because the roof is just a more expansive place for fights. I’m not sure if you’re just disagreeing with them being knocked out or just them losing. Although I do think big mom wants payback for whatever Kid did, so she’ll knock him out.

[cerulean coyote]

If she touches Kid, he will reach his 1% immediately.

[grizzled fog]

Kid’s not likely to get 1 tapped if that’s what you’re getting at

[cerulean coyote]

I mean if he's the 1% survival rate guy from Hawkins tarot

[craggy pumice]

wdym "touch kidd"

[grizzled fog]

Then I think you got this backwards

This means kids gonna survive if big mom touches him lol

[cerulean coyote]

Mama needs to touch people to steal soul but kidd uses metal so it's not easy to phisically touch his body

[dusky acorn]

Right, if Jinbei was immune to the power under normal circumstances, I suppose they easily would be too.

I think with Luffy being taken out of the picture for a little bit could urge Kaido to go down from the roof and potentially meeting Yamato on floor 2/3 or something. Luffy is the one who didn't uphold the part of keeping the Yonko occupied so they don't unite again, after all. I think this will lead to Kaido meeting big Mom in the castle, as I think he needs to witness Big Mom's betrayal first-hand, especially since she just took out two of his prized officers.

It's true that the roof is a better battleground, but now that circumstances have changed it's difficult to see Big Mom being the one to go up there anymore. I'm disagreeing with them being knocked out in any fashion, because I feel it'd lead to disappointment at Big Mom for not having taken their lives instead when given that chance despite totally being in character, though you say it could be patched up with saving their souls for later, which I can let slide

[grizzled fog]

Are you thinking big mom gets defeated by kid and law here shim?

[dusky acorn]

It's hard to say, but as Adam alluded to this current position in the caslte isn't really a good place to crown a whole Emperor defeat, if it's to ever happen. It's basically just a hallway and not many would see it happen

I think it's more probable the fight moves to the live floor or something

[grizzled fog]

Live floor is kinda the only place if you want maximum attention and onlookers, not like the roof is better in that aspect

[dusky acorn]

More names than just Kid and Law will need to be added in if she's taken out. Kaido joining in to attack after coming down and seeing what she's done is one way

[grizzled fog]

Though i kinda feel like there’s a limit to just what can go on at the live floor lol, we’ve already got queens king, drake, Marco, chopper, zoro snd Sanji are on their way and the numbers could come too as well as some scabbards

[weak arrow]

Yeah I think BM could possibly move to the main stage. And I mean, it would be nice if big mom’s betrayal being reported did something unless we see king or queen snipe perospero

She also knows the live floor is a way to the roof (even if she could go through the wall like she did earlier)

[grizzled fog]

If BM ends up becoming enemy of the beast pirates, I could see peros getting attacked by king or queen yea

[weak arrow]

But yeah, Kaido and Luffy have to fight on the roof and he has to smash Kaido through the roof onto the live floor for the finishing blow. Anything else will not be tolerated. BM going up rather than Kaido going down just makes more sense to me.

Kid and Law will still get up later and do something though. dw I won’t do Kid too dirty

[dusky acorn]

I think it depends on how fast Luffy recovers I think so Kaido knows he has free a window to go down to the rest of the fight or not

Ultimately I do think the final bout against Kaido or finishing blow will have to be done in front of other people
Whether that be through outside on the roof for the citizens of Wano to see, or slamming him into the live floor so that the BP can all see it and go sporadic is also okay

Ty

[weak arrow]

How do you think they’ll get back to the roof

Also you can have both if Kaido is in full dragon form

[dusky acorn]

Honestly I have no clear idea, but what I do have mapped out right now is:

1.Kaido goes down, intersects with Yamato, maybe that's where the flashback occurs, then he meets Big Mom, attacks BM a bit to whittle her down

2. Luffy recovers, Momo is the one who saved him, who tells him Kaido has moved down some floors, so they go there

3. Then idk, Kaido feels like flying back up to the roof for some reason after dealing dmg to BM while Luffy/Yamato latch onto him

All this going up/down/up/down to the roof and back seems pretty repetive on paper though now that I look at it

[gloomy canyon]

Well no matter what happens, Yamato is confronting her father which will trigger the flashback, don't know if I see BM disrupting that

[gloomy canyon]

This is what's confusing to me about these BM vs Kaido theories

I'm finding it very hard to speculate about what's going to happen now

[dusky acorn]

Yeah, feels difficult rn to think up ways to get the complete and full mileage out of all these plot threads (BM/Kaido betrayal, Luffy beating Kaido on the roof) without constantly moving these characters like this

[weak arrow]

Kid and law being beaten and BM reminiscing about Rocks somehow and then we flip to Kaido and Yamato and then flashback starts

[gloomy canyon]

Coming off the Kaido flashback where we see Rocks interactions is probably the perfect place to showcase the Kaido/BM betrayal

I just can't think of the logistics

[dusky acorn]

Because even if Big Mom goes on the roof to fight Kaido and chip away at each other a bit, I think ultimately she'd need to be taken down from there again somehow to give Luffy his pure Kaido fight

[weak arrow]

She could leave again in search of the poneglyph. Maybe Law even baits her with it

And ofc it’s the wrong one

[dense wing]

Yamato can easily reach the roof soon to keep Kaido there

[gloomy canyon]

After this chapter, I'm just so off the idea of BM leaving. She seems so locked into this raid now

[dense wing]

The effects of BM’s betrayal can happen without Kaido directly knowing as well

[dusky acorn]

The poneglyph he found earlier coming up as a plot device sounds nice

[dense wing]

Peros being attacked by King for example

[dusky acorn]

Reminds me of how Hawkins strategically told Kaido in Act 1 Luffy was at the castle or whatever to divert his attention ( though back then that was a lie and he didn't know they were there)

[weak arrow]

And when Law tells her, ofc he’ll be surprised, and that look shocks makes Bm think Law is legit

[dense wing]

Would BM really drop everything to go for a glyph she just found out the location to, and could easily go later?

And I doubt she’ll go along with Law saying “I’ll tell you where the glyph is if you do X”

[dusky acorn]

Yeah it could be paired with Kaido emitting some sort of ill reaction which confirms what Law is saying is true.
And ofc it isn't a road glyph, but Law wouldn't have to specify that, he could just leave it vague as just a poneglyph and wouldn't be a lie

[pure raven]

kaido won't come down from the roof. kaido wants to only fight someone worth fighting. and if u can't reach the roof. u r not worth fighting

[dense wing]

Still find it a stretch vs Law and Kidd simply fighting BM

[grim oyster]

Theory: the Rio Poneglyph is the one piece, it would explain why the WG doesnt want the one piece to be discovered. it also explains why the Roger Pirates found out what happened in the void century.

[dense wing]

Rio Poneglyph is explained by Tamago to be 8 or 9 separate glyphs combined

I believe Raftel has a Rio glyph tho

[grim oyster]

last one to finish the thing maybe?

[dense wing]

If they’re in order sure

[dusky acorn]

Kaido basically iterated in the latest chapter he does want to come down from the roof. He wanted to come down with Luffy's head to show the others. He'll still do that, just not with Luffy's head or any hard proof of defeating him.
Luffy recovering fast enough which is possible is something that can easily stop him though

[grim oyster]

also do we know how many glyphs robin has found

[dense wing]

Imo the One Piece is the capital of the ancient kingdom, filled with Poneglyphs telling the history of the world, JoyBoy’s story, etc

And treasure ofc

[real swan]

Does anyone else think punk hazard is a result of awakened logias? Or to rephrase I believe punk hazard is a hint at what logia awakening does, which is permanently affect the environment to reflect the DF.

[grim oyster]

ive seen multiple theories like that, personally I think thats what happened

[opal portal]

I have a question is zoros observation haki stronger or weaker than sanjis observation haki?

[dense wing]

!punkhazard

[lone hedge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/164971940648321024/795015111625801728/hdgmrphiqgm11.png%3Fwidth%3D1095%26height%3D227

[dense wing]

Weaker most likely

Sanji’s specialty is observation

[opal portal]

Because I think Sanji will get future sight because zoro has ryuo it would fit

[dense wing]

Zoro hasn’t shown ryou

[grizzled fog]

zoro doesn’t really have ryuo atm

[real swan]

Ahhh

[grim oyster]

closest thing we have seen him do close the ryuo is scarring kaido but we dont know if he actually used it

[grizzled fog]

We know zoro doesn’t actually know ryuo

Enma seems to kinda help force it though, kinda emanating ryuo for him

[opal portal]

Enma forces him to use ryuo

[grizzled fog]

Yes in a sense. But zoro himself doesn’t know it

[grim oyster]

maybe thats how he scarred kaido. enma forced him to used ACoC

[grizzled fog]

That doesn’t really make any sense

[grim oyster]

how?

[grizzled fog]

We’ve yet to know of any connection between enma and coc at all, it only draws out armament for starters, and it’s not like you need acoc to harm kaido, plus none of the visual indicators for acoc were there

[dense wing]

Enma forces out your Haki

Not just CoA

But it doesn’t force out ACoC

[bitter condor]

So like, If Raftel = Laugh Tale, the D probably means Devil in contrast to the WG? Could even be D-evil - 'The Evil'
It would also make Luffy's full name: Monkey Devil Luffy, a clear reference to the Monkey King.

Ie. everyone of the Ds would have the "D" as their middle name; John 'the evil' Smith / John Devil Smith as a 'marker'

[dense wing]

@carmine pond serious theories only

[carmine pond]

bruh look at ur name

[dense wing]

My name being a meme has nothing to do with the channel rules

You’re free to meme in the other manga channels

[pure raven]

I know this is dumb but I have a theory on how Blackbeard got his 2nd devil fruit I think he got the whitebeard soul and he added it to his body so now he has his devil fruit I know it’s dumb but I made it when I was taking a shower

[dense wing]

It’s a unique take but the fruit isn’t attached to someone’s soul

[bitter condor]

I thought that was kind of implied on Punk Hazard with the blob thing

• brook' story of his fruit confirming op characters have 'souls'

[pure raven]

Yeah I know but I thought it was an ok theory

[dense wing]

Obviously One Piece characters have souls

But when one has a DF the DF isn’t attached to their soul, since you can pass on to new users

When Smiley died a nearby fruit became the DF

[bitter condor]

You're right; if prior souls from the DFs had some lingering effect, we'd have seen it in the DFs that has been used by multiple users.

[dense wing]

Yh

[green roost]

great theory, i agree with this and said something of a similar vain on the spoiler chat, how page one and ulti would NOW be in a believable condition to get beaten by usopp and nami , we have the setup to their fight all this time beforehand , additionally the climatact in hera's mouth is a good observation, this can end up being a surprise attack later, something even nami may not realize happened

thios would give nami a permament weakened zeus, that doesnt make her OP as hell and throw off the scales

meaning she cant do stuff like this anymore most likely

[sacred hawk]

You know what I want? Whe Luffy faces off against Kaido for the final time, I want him to show up in a similar fashion to how he did with Doffy

[green roost]

moments like that are always peak luffy , agreed there should be some cool interruption moment later

[sacred hawk]

But it begs the question. If Luffy's being removed like this, there's probably something he needs to do in Wano before facing off against Kaido again

[green roost]

perhaps stop onigashima itself from falling

[sacred hawk]

Maybe bring someone to Onigashima?

[dense wing]

Or Momo simply catches Luffy

[green roost]

hitetsu, hiyori, caribou and the fox are still missing players

[dense wing]

We have no idea where we are in terms of how close we are to the capital

[green roost]

seems like hes falling really far out of bounds of onigashima, i dont know if momo is that fast especially from momo's position inside

[dense wing]

Luffy could simply be falling the ocean and someone, likely Momo, will catch him

[dense wing]

Momo can sense Luffy has lost way before being tossed off

[green roost]

idk why its likely momo tho, sure i admit theres a small chance momo is possible but its very small

i know momo can sense stuff but its also about speed and location

[dense wing]

Momo is the only realistic one since he’s the only one who can sense Luffy immediately

Shinobu is also fast-ish

[weak arrow]

Momo would be able to sense Luffy's voice weakening over time.

[green roost]

to me it seemed like momo was in the heart of onigashima's castle and the castle width itself is pretty big, he'd have to make through many walls and enemies to reach luffy

that itself makes it seem less likely to me, the amount of obstacles in the way, cause its not like hed have a straight shot, unless he made a V shape i guess, flew up above onigashima then straight down

but tbh maybe yall right, momo has been foreshadowed to do something with his clouds anyway, its easier to imagine him do this than like, hold up onigashima i guess lol

[sleek vale]

I don’t see why Luffy can’t save himself

[cyan berry]

because he's knocked out as he's falling

[sleek vale]

I wouldn’t put it past him to gain the strength to wake back up in the midst of peril though.

[zinc iris]

Because that he can't win this alone is a theme

[green roost]

Even if luffy is saved by momo or something , I wonder what’s kaidos next move is gonna be, if Yamato doesn’t go up there right then and there to stall him then he’s just free to come down and wreck everything in sight , so the Yamato thing pretty much has to happen at this point

But she’s lost to him countless times before , I don’t see her doing anything but stalling for a short amount of time , so I hope however luffy is saved , he comes back soon enough or everyone is done for

Oh wait , big mom can stall him

[waxen light]

Momo is pretty close to him actually. We saw he was in the 2nd floor attic and we know the scabbards entered from the 3rd floor through the rear when they attacked Kaido. All he has to do is climb not even a full floor up and exit. Shinobu could probably get him there pretty quick.

[errant ridge]

any current theories about vegapunk?

[eager trout]

this leads me to belive shanks will go to wano

its better than "luffy will meet shanks in elbaf"

[weak arrow]

Neither option is good

although the latter one is certainly better

[eager trout]

why would they meet in a place that is on the first part of the grand line ?

[weak arrow]

huh?

[eager trout]

elbaf is on the first part of the grand line

when you go down the reverse mountain is one of the first islands

[weak arrow]

There's no indication of that.

[eager trout]

no indication ? i believe just the fact that it was one of the firsts arcs on the first part of the manga proves it

[weak arrow]

That was Little Garden

A completely irrelevant island to Elbaf

[pure raven]

Little garden wasn’t elbaf

[eager trout]

ah ok sorry then i thought that little garden was elbaf

[weak arrow]

Only reason for shanks to go to Wano right now is if he's evil

[eager trout]

what ?

[weak arrow]

And he just takes 3 road poneglyphs at once and dips

[eager trout]

Shanks could go to wano to assist luffy

2 Emperors vs 2 Emperors

[weak arrow]

That's even worse than shanks being evil

[cedar sinew]

The whole point of shanks promise with luffy is for them to meet when luffy is worthy

Him going there to help out luffy would feel like an undeserved copout

[pure raven]

Whos the fourth

[eager trout]

Kaido, Big Mom vs Luffy and Shanks

[pure raven]

Luffy isn’t an emperor

[eager trout]

he is considered one

[weak arrow]

Luffy will probably prove he’s ready either after this arc or the next one

[pure raven]

By like morgans

[eager trout]

by the world gov

[cedar sinew]

BM is fighting kid anyways

[eager trout]

"fighting"

[weak arrow]

He’s not considered an emperor by the people who matter, aka the emperors

And that’s really what matters

[eager trout]

the world gov is the one that gives the title not the pirates themselves

[weak arrow]

He’s not considered an emperor by the people who matter, aka the emperors

[cedar sinew]

No the WG don’t give out the titles, it just happens to turn out that way naturally

[eager trout]

that's their opinion

[cedar sinew]

The only titles the WG assigns are the shikibukai

[weak arrow]

And they have the most qualified opinion, don’t you think?

[eager trout]

you're talking about scum pirates

[cedar sinew]

[eager trout]

scum pirates = evil pirates

[cedar sinew]

Why does that matter

[eager trout]

for the same reason Black Beard said that luffy wasn't worth 100B

[weak arrow]

that wasnt Blackbeard that said that

If the world declared BB an emperor right after Wb died, do you think the emperors would accept that?

[eager trout]

they did

[weak arrow]

they didnt

[eager trout]

BB turned out an emperor just after WB died

[ember matrix]

He became emperor after winning the payback war against marco

He was only a candidate for yonko after wbs death

[eager trout]

yes you're right i'm reading

Blackbeard used his knowledge of Whitebeard's former territory to conquer it and become one of the Four Emperors.

[ember matrix]

Yep

[eager trout]

Following the events of the Whole Cake Island Arc, the World Economy News Paper has referred to Monkey D. Luffy as standing adjacent to the Four Emperors as the "Fifth Emperor" of the sea.[10] This was both due to the events of the arc and interviews performed with Cavendish and Bartolomeo, who informed the journalists of the 5640-member Straw Hat Grand Fleet.

[cedar sinew]

why are you copying the wiki

[eager trout]

to prove my point

[cedar sinew]

that doesn't prove anything

[eager trout]

it does for me, but you're free to decide if my opinion is valid or not

[cedar sinew]

the point was that in this context to be considered equal footings with a yonko, it should be done by the yonko themselves

[green roost]

Good point I didn’t think about that exact placement

[cedar sinew]

but that's irrelevant anyway. Shanks isn't coming

[eager trout]

we will see who knows what the future holdss

[green roost]

Regarding shanks being at wano , despite how hype he is , if shanks showed up now it’s basically like turning on god mode in a hard mode video game, it’ll take out all the thrill and fun and challenge

He sweeps

[eager trout]

that's a thing we don't know how strong he really is

[green roost]

If he and his entire crew showed up luffy would be irrelevant

[weak arrow]

We know he's a yonko. Dude would literally pick off everyone who's weakened aka everybody

[green roost]

Like of course we all wanna see shanks , b in a proper setting , luffy had to grow and this would make it too easy , no growth

[eager trout]

can we really say kaido is weakened ?

[weak arrow]

Yes.

[eager trout]

this chapter he even says "first time i get this excited and go out so easily"

[green roost]

Shanks had a run in with kaido before and it made kaido turn away from mf

I mean from MF sorry

[eager trout]

but did they fight or just talked ?

[green roost]

I’m just gonna assume they scrapped a bit , kaido hardly seems like a talker , but of course it’s anyone’s guess as of right now

[eager trout]

shanks is the type of characters to avoid fights

[green roost]

The marines said it was a clash

[eager trout]

he avoided with WB, he avoided in MF

he avoided on luffy's village

[green roost]

That doesn’t mean all his actions would be like that, those were very specific moments in which he felt he NEEDED to intervene

Even then he “clashed” with akainu

[eager trout]

luffy also intervenes but luffy decides to say "i'm going to kick X-ASS" and he goes for it

even with WB they did have a mini clash

[green roost]

All goes to say shanks at the very least “blocked “ kaidos path or attacks

[eager trout]

we are on our way to the final third of one piece, he is going have to show up sometime

[green roost]

Ofc

[waxen light]

It'd be cool if he talked him down and told him a bigger war would be on the horizon and to just chill

[eager trout]

and after wano we are going to the final arc

"final big arc" with normal arcs inside

[green roost]

I hope that’s gonna be the structure , considering oda’s timeline I’m worried it’s just gonna be one actual big arc no little arcs inside

[eager trout]

oda has all the time of the world

[green roost]

True I guess he doesn’t have to follow 5 year plan if he feels he needs to do more

[eager trout]

he said 5 years because that what he belive it will be

[vestal isle]

i think that's likely

[eager trout]

this final arc if oda tries to do it on one take he is going to mess a lot of things

[vestal isle]

i don't think so

it just means that there won't be any time to relax because things are going to be happening quickly

[green roost]

I think geography itself will help us determine that , if they have to go to multiple islands after this each island can be considered its own mini arc

[eager trout]

you have to much info to show for him to take it at one arc only

the straw hats have to find the last pologryph

the straw hats have to deal with black beard

[vestal isle]

i'm sure they'll go to different islands, i just don't think it's going to be like it has been up til now where they go to an island and save it from a bad guy. i think everything now will be more interconnected

[eager trout]

the straw hats have to deal with world gov

and we have background story happening that i belive will form it's own arc

vivi being hunted, enero on the moon ..., black bearded on the move

[green roost]

I imagine something like the lead up to alabasta

[vestal isle]

yeah that makes sense

[green roost]

Whiskey peak little garden etc

[eager trout]

skypea is the same and other arcs

https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Story_Arcs

[green roost]

Lol damn that chart

[eager trout]

right now we are at "Four Emperors arc"

maybe wano will end on the 100 volume

MAYBE

i had hope we were on the finale of the arc but since luffy lost again we need a little more

[green roost]

Wano won’t end in the 100th volume , we’re weekly on the 100th right now and it’s about to be it’s last volume chapter I think

[eager trout]

this volume ( 99th ) will be released on june

[green roost]

Yeah 99will have older chapters

[eager trout]

Volume 99 is set to be released on June 4, 2021.

each volume 10 chapters

volume 99 will go from 995 to 1004

[green roost]

Right that’s what I mean , volume 100 is wrapping up we are on 1013

[eager trout]

yeah too soon

i can't see oda finishing one piece in 5 years honestly

i can't see oda finishing wano this year

unless for some reason the next time lufy gets up ( just like sayajins from dragon ball ) he suddenly gets 20x more powerfull

luffy always gets backup but not suddenly stronger

https://screenrant.com/one-piece-manga-story-ending-over/ Oda's plans place the ending of the One Piece manga around 2025-2026

[pure raven]

150 - 190 to learn what the void century is, what laugh tale is, who joy boy is, meet shanks and deal with blackbeard, the eventual fall of the celestial dragons, elbaf, and like finding the actual one piece and what that means

5 year are enough for ending i.e 200 chaps

Also wanos battle soon going to be in the last phase as this time if luffy loses in his fight against kaido(in future i.e after falling from onigishima) then kaido going to kill him for sure

So we can expect 30 chaps including after math +- 5/10 chapps

And also .

Last year we had avg 40 chaps

And this year we hace got 14 chaps therefore 24 chaps apprx. Left

And if oda can finish all the fights this year that could be within 24 chaps that would leave aftermath of battle for next year

Here we can expect following .

After act 3 (if ) it ends then
-2 chaps outside wano.
-Then kaido flashback apprx 5-10 chaps
- someof other flashbacks we got
Doffy and law(together) 7 chaps
Bm incomplete flashback 2 chaps
Oden 15 chaps apprx

We can expect other characters flashback to be within 1 to 1/2 chaps similar to señor pink

[dark palm]

Momo belief is unfounded:

A few chapters ago, we saw big mom fall off of onigashima.

When she recovered, she blew a hole in the wall on the right side of the building.

Momo is located right next to that hole, inside a sprawling attic away from basically everything.

Luffy is falling ON THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE SIDE OF ONIGASHIMA

sorry

just wanted to compile that to link to people

[pure raven]

Well looks like carrot got more chances of saving luffy

[pure raven]

[waxen light]

Opposite side of Carrot too lol

[dark palm]

who knows what carrot has been doing?

we've seen momo MUCH more recently than her

you think she's just been laying there the whole time? what if she took peros' words to heart and went towards luffy

[worldly lance]

Theory : Straw Hats fails the Onigashima raid. Then they will find about Sabo's news, go to Sabo's instead then re-plan the onigashima raid

[pure raven]

It took a good few hours for her to get up from getting out of sulong back in Whole Cake Island. I'm pretty sure she'd be just as tired here, if not even more.

[dark palm]

so you think for the entirety of the raid she's just going to sit around?

[pure raven]

Kinemkn already said this there only chance

[worldly lance]

DONT FACE PALM ME AARRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[waxen light]

We do know that there's an exit to the rear on the 3rd floor, the one the scabbards used to sneak attack Kaido. Momo is in the attic of the second floor, in between the 2nd and 3rd floor. All he has to do is notice Luffy is drifting away from Onigashima and Shinobu is there with him to get him outside.

[worldly lance]

I have another Theory, Jimbei will fight Kaido while Luffy recovers

[dark palm]

momo is in one of the side towers

the exit is the middle tower

momo also has no idea of an exit

[worldly lance]

or Yamato. OR Yamato rescues Luffy or Jimbei

[dark palm]

he'd just be able to sense luffy, that's it

he doesn't get a blood trail to follow

[waxen light]

This is the sky in the very same spread of Luffy falling too. No moon for Carrot to Sulong.

[pure raven]

No, I think the raid will still go on for a good other hours, just don't think she'll be the one to jump to help Luffy here if there is anyone. She could either join up in the live floor or jump later to help Luffy, thinking he still needs help.

[dark palm]

who knows where the moon is? are you acting like that's the entire sky

[pure raven]

There is moon as carrot had transformed in sulong form so did cat viper

[dark palm]

she's been knocked out for essentially an hour at this rate, if you think she's just been sitting around this whole time. Not factoring that she was forcibly removed from sulong before getting to use it optimally

the moon could very easily have peaked through the clouds at a different angle

hell, she could have jumped on her own just on a whim

[pure raven]

For a dip in water

[waxen light]

Are you acting like Momo isn't closer to him than Carrot? How would she have even known he was falling? And as you said if she was up, why would she hang around outside to see him fall, wouldn't she enter the dome and return to the raid?

[dark palm]

yeah, momo isn't closer

since he'd have to navigate out of the entire building

while he's stuck in a small attic

suddenly being able to use his fruit to the point of mastering it

[pure raven]

Also momo not adapt at using his clouds to fly so it would be kinda stupid to have him fly noe

[waxen light]

How did Yamato get out of the attic if they're stuck in there? He can leave you know.

[dark palm]

he doesn't know his way around this castle

yamato does

even if he leaves the attic, is he going to find the next exit?

how's he going to get outside in a fast enough manner?

[waxen light]

You said there a was a giant hole next to him.

[dark palm]

he'd have to react to luffy getting thrown off, THEN RUN TO HIM

look at the screenshot

[pure raven]

And also momo reading odens logbook so we can get some other info from log
And as momo is focused on logbook he couldnt notice luffy falling

As he wouldnt be hearing the entire battle all the time

[dark palm]

they were specifically waiting for kin'emon too

it's just so unbelievable for something like that to happen, the most likely option is him landing on wano himself

carrot would just make that better

brb league

[pure raven]

Well luffy falling into wanokuni could be great way to present that onigishima entered wano

Rather them somone saying or we seeing wano in far

Could have greater impact as urgency on luffy

[pure raven]

The fight between Carrot and Wanda vs Perospero started all the way in 995, by that time Luffy was still going upstairs, Big Mom hadn't even reached the rooftop and the Scabbards were still fighting (post Kiku losing her arm). We would only see them again in 1006, when Chopper was about to finish his cure, Kaido went hybrid to fight against the supernovas and the Scabbards were about to meet a fake Oden meaning; they were already resting for a good few hours AT LEAST to recover from the brutal fight they were just in. Her being removed forcibly from Sulong has to be something that happened recently by then, plus with all the dragged out fight it must have been way WAY more tiring than jumping from ship to ship in totoland, which lasted at least a good few minutes. I'll wager there's still a good hour or two until she can walk properly, and a few more until she can fight properly again.

[errant ridge]

I got it the big war before was around Ace execution.
this war will be about sabo's execution

[pure raven]

I'd hate that tbh. I don't think Sabo was even captured, just vanished because of Kuma's powers and the government decided to make things up, either that or they are framing him on killing Cobra.

Well it could have been like this that cobra asked smth that 5 elders didnt seem fit or ssmth and then killed him sabo who was there witnessed it ( and was shocked maybe by the cobras ques.) and when they were about to attack vivi sabo saved her and fled

Also there could be chances of sabo seeing marejois treasure as how doffy saw it .

[errant ridge]

is there any theory on who this imu is? or we just know too little at this point.

[waxen light]

I agree that Luffy landing on Wano would be the most likely scenario. I just don't see how Carrot could even remotely know that's he's falling out of Onigashima. I'm sure she's up since as you said, it's been at least like 30+ since she got KO'd , but it just doesn't make sense that she would stay outside, move a couple hundred feet over to the side to witness him falling on the completely obscured other side of Onigashima. By all rights she should've headed into the dome to rejoin the raid.

[fallow tree]

Whats all the lines

[waxen light]

I'm still 50/50 on Momo doing the saving but he's actively been keeping tabs on the fight. If he noticed Luffy just went down, it wouldn't be out of the question that he'd try to help. He's been itching to do something this whole raid. He doesn't even need to reach Luffy. Kaido made his flame clouds and they traveled all around Onigashima to lift it. He could sprout them and send them to help Luffy when he makes it outside. People expect him to help keep Onigashima from crushing the capital and saving Luffy could be a small step to show that he's learning to use them. I wouldn't call that mastery.

[waxen light]

The lines are there from the original image. I just used it cause its a good approximation of the island. Check the manga channel pins for the original

[midnight heron]

fujitora is leader of sword?

honestly for stuff like this (luffy falling) i just wait till the next chapter

[dark palm]

you think peros just automatically won when their form ran out? it's what contributed to him winning. I think it's MORE likely that they lost the form almost instantly as I figure they'd have been able to dispatch him rather quickly in it. Not to mention he really wasn't that injured after of the encounter. So for her to be able to move after sitting there resting for at least a half an hour really isn't that crazy.
@waxen light

Wanze, you misunderstand

I think she will have gone up towards the roof due to a newfound mission to help luffy

look at what she's thinking about here

that was pedro's ambition all along

carrying the will of the strawhats forward

her revenge attempt was misguided and didn't represent what he truly wanted to pass along

so this is a redemption effort

also, for momo, it'd be more like this

with him having to figure out a way out of the place in both

this isn't by the crow flies

[waxen light]

Yes, I saw this earlier and it does make sense. I agree that it would be a great character moment and one that she needs. I just find it hard to believe she'd some how manage to see him falling unless you're suggesting she climb up from outside? Which I suppose could've happened.

[dark palm]

she would have noticed the chaos happening up top

like hakai

[waxen light]

My main... not even complaint... not even sure what the word would be. I just don't know how she would know that he's falling unless she was literally on the roof as it happened.

[dark palm]

qualm