#manga-theories

1 messages · Page 80 of 1

worthy breach
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And its so strange for an arc like this that as a yonko gets dumped and being super chill in every chapter she appears except only one time where she was clashing with kaido

olive quail
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How do you mean

keen portal
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I don't think she's super chill lol

She's been aggravated, hasty and arrogant all through the fight, especially on the roof.

worthy breach
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In previous arc, we saw some serious actions despite she was in some kind of sugar coma, but this arc she was strange to my opinion, i mean being crushed by a car or being dumped 3 times (king, marco and now thanks to law & kid), what i mean by being super chill is that she never gives a fuck, being arrogant and hasty is a kind of same thing with what i meant too tbh, im just wondering that when will she take the situation serious where kaido has already started gradually

dry lynx
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Can haki be mixed with DF abilities? The possibilities are endless.

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Enel + CoO is the closest we got to this

grizzled fog
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Katakuri did it too with his armament

keen portal
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Doffy strings with haki?

grizzled fog
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His Block Mochi was a combination of CoA and Mochi to make it stronger

dry lynx
grizzled fog
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It was regular coating, but what made it more powerful was him combining it with his devil fruit

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That’s why it was strong enough to make luffy’s hands hurt

dry lynx
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Kaido did the same too didn't he? I thought it's just one's coating is powerful than the other.

grizzled fog
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Kaido has crazy good coA, but he’s also using coc coating. It’s not really the same

dry lynx
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I was re-reading op with SoS streams, and caught up too 900. I didn't get the vibes that Katakuri mixed haki and DF

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Even on the re-read

worn heart
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when do you think zoro awakened his CoC?

weak arrow
worn heart
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nah

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?

grizzled fog
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Yea I believe it’s most likely that he awakened it here and now

amber oar
worn heart
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monet's should be enough by itself tho

grizzled fog
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Imo that’s just zoro’s bloodlust, I don’t think any of that was coc prior to this chapter

worn heart
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bruh

fervent hawk
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Does sakazuki have future sight in marineford when he was attacked by Marco and Vista he deformed his body and said "Haki users, how irritating" and it happened with kuzan and whitebeard too that's why when luffy explained what katakuri was doing i thought is this something he is not supposed to be able to do?

pure raven
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Drop the associated panels this sounds interesting 👍

grizzled fog
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I don’t think you need future sight to do that. It’s just waist that way

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Kuzan and Sakazuki could probably do it with good enough reflexes and just regular obs

amber oar
mild kite
junior shoal
zinc iris
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so cracker was using CoC on the homies?

junior shoal
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Ussopp, nami and chopper have anti-coc as they always get intimidated

zinc iris
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usopp used CoC on Perona and Sugar UsoppSus

night jewel
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arlong coc

Arlong_Conquerors_Haki.png
mild kite
amber oar
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from that video the one that looked most like CoC was the one with the bounty hunters. But anime only BrookShrug

worn heart
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gg

marble skiff
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so like

fringe tide
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So is zoro out of the fight for good or do you guys think law/chopper/marco will heal him enough to fight a calamity/fodders

marble skiff
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do you think nami is finally going to get zeus now?
This chapter not so subtly hinted at big mom finally having had enough of his shenanigans.
If not getting zeus she will probably kill him and repurpose him into something else?
maybe an upgrade to prometheus and napoleon?

So that she focuses the homie power on one thing and is equal to kaido now

fringe tide
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Honestly think Prometheus ask bm to incorporate both fire and cloud into him so he can use both fire/lightning thus eliminating the need for zeus, zeus when he finds out will get attacked and eventually run away, nami finds him and then officially become her slave

zinc iris
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if big mom could do that then animating specific objects would be pointless

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just animate a pebble and grant it any ability you want

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also would make the DF's scope basically every power

upper carbon
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So who do you guys think is effecting the clouds? When Kid mentioned something happening with them?

weak arrow
upper carbon
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Prometheus asking Big Mom for a favor huh?

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Kids in for a beat down

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I'm still banking on the Lurking Legend appearing, and it being The world's most Dangerous criminal. Dragon.

grizzled fog
junior shoal
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We need grandfleet including Mansherry for zoro 😩

fathom matrix
unreal sedge
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aight guys, semiserious question:

Will Luffy's bounty increase after Wano?

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Wano is isolated, and only X Drake is around to report anything

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but X Drake isn't exactly a traditional marine, being a part of Sword, so the info of Kaido and/or Big Mom being beaten or severely threatened may not even be released, and even if he directly reports it, the marines may see announcing that a Yonkou/two Yonkou have fallen as a bad thing, for the sake of 'balance of power'

junior shoal
unreal sedge
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I'm kinda split. It could be a carthadic reward and an excellent milestone if Luffy achieves a real Yonkou's bounty, but I think it's totally within Oda's expectations to throw a curveball

olive quail
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Wano will open up too

unreal sedge
winter quarry
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Sanji will have conqueror's haki

olive quail
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Chillll

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Slow down there fella

craggy pumice
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why would he, Oda isnt slowing down either

junior shoal
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Atleast he is taking breaks

olive quail
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I wonder if Kid will learn to use CoC the same way as Luffy while facing Big Mom. Oda gave him that ability for a reason. I expect him to use it.

junior shoal
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he might become luffy strongest rival of the new era so why not yeah

craggy pumice
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Would be cool

kind gate
urban ledge
craggy pumice
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Thank you very much FrankyThumbsUp

kind gate
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@weak arrow can this be pinned^^

ancient vault
ancient vault
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will reach way more ppl there

kind gate
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Yh too many people including myself were fooled

urban ledge
ancient vault
# kind gate Yh too many people including myself were fooled

Its not necessarily wrong that the 5act structure exists. Its just that this isnt the only structure the kabuki play goes by. Often if not most of the time (I havent read this exact article but another similar one) its not 5 tho. So yeah the article is right about the wrong expectations it gave ppl including myself and probably 99% of the community at the start

ancient vault
kind gate
ancient vault
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But yh it seems like 5 acts are an exception which obviously oda can also do but thats not the usual structure of a kabuki play so the entire argument of "act 3 tragedy in kabuki play" is basically rendered useless

kind gate
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I see

peak cape
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Oh the 5 act thing fooled me but yeah I don't really see what tragedy could happen now tbh. Also 5 acts feels really long.

desert sedge
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Based on current chapter of zoro unlocking his coc, i got a feeling that his coc is different from luffy (haki burst and black lightning coc attack). Cause if he used coc similar to luffy, i feel like he should have known that he had it. What i think of zoro's coc is about the black blade thing. We also know that zoro has only been made aware that blades can be turned to black this arc so he doesn't know that it might be related to coc. This explains why he doesn't know he had coc. So my guess is when kaido ask zoro about his Coc, he was actually referring to zoro turning his sword to black blade. But zoro just unlock this power and hasn't mastered it yet, so it still reverted back. What do you guys think?

ancient vault
ancient vault
peak cape
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I think we get one more rooftop chapter then it goes back down to finish the other fights.

sacred hawk
boreal storm
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Sanji might have it

image0.jpg
zinc iris
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act 3 ends when they reach laugh tale

fringe tide
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Wonder what difficulty jimbe won against who

olive quail
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Who's Who seems like the strongest of the tobiroppo, (besides maybe Drake) a group that only ranks lower than the all stars. So i would assume it to be somewhat challenging at least. Personally I hope Jinbe ends up facing an all star at some point though.

zinc iris
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jinbe gets in the monster trio and sanji gets demoted QueenKEKW

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I want to see what who's who's deal is

grizzled fog
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Hope he’s a former warlord

random yacht
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or someone he was friendly with before he became a warlord

fringe tide
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Arlong sunk his ship and since arlongs in prison whos who is taking it out on jimbe or whos who is a fishmen part of the fishertiger pirates and did not agree with jimbe joining warlords

grizzled fog
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I don’t think it can be the latter, who’s who said he saw him once, implying he didn’t really know him all that well if at all. If they were on the ship idt he’d say that

random tundra
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Luffy beats kaido with gear 5 and momo cuts his head

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And is the new lord of wano

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And in 20 years prob one of the strongest chars ever cuz dragon fruit and prob conquers and odens swords

kind gate
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that is not going to come true my friend

jolly walrus
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do we really think luffy is beating kaido alone? no shot he can single handedly take him from here on out without help of others

ember trench
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He got this

vagrant imp
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Whats CoO, CoC and CoA

weak arrow
vagrant imp
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Ok but whats the Co stand for

grizzled badger
vagrant imp
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Who made that up lol

covert hazel
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Someone who is slightly lazy

vagrant imp
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Should just be OH, CH and AH

covert hazel
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No that's boring

vagrant imp
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Thats even lazier

covert hazel
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But coa and stuff sounds cooler

grizzled badger
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tru

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since zoro slightly blocked a yonko combined attack do you guys think zoro is able to fully block kaidos strongest club attack

covert hazel
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No

torpid swan
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zoro is strong but he doesnt have control over his conquerors like luffy. If kaido coats his attack in conquerers zoro has no way of blocking. the combined attack wasnt coated so zoros defense was pure strength not skill. Thats my take

sacred hawk
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So wait, if Big Mom makes a new Zeus, what would it be called?

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Thor?

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See it makes sense because elbaf connections

eager mica
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Thor, Susanoo-o, Raijin

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Those are just a few I’ve seen people mention, but I think Thor makes sense

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Off topic, but why don’t more people talk about the “it’s not him, it’s them” moment with Blackbeard? I thought all of those weird theories about Blackbeard having a weird body was just some random bullshit that someone came up with to speculate until I reread this moment. Most people don’t talk about how weird this moment is, or about this moment in general.

bitter flower
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did zoro use conq haki against girrafe man?

jovial wave
rancid karma
eager mica
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Ah, okay that makes more sense

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Sorry for me seeing something that wasn’t there 😅

rancid karma
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It’s an old theory based on non-official translations. I remember watching videos about it some 6 years ago

jovial wave
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It just makes too much sense that the dark fruit is able to absorb someones devil fruit and that could extend to him actually stealing one

sonic plaza
grizzled fog
dusky acorn
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Big Mom's Defeat in Wano THEORY

Content:

PART 1: Big Mom's Defeat in Wano
Introduction

  1. Changing Era
  2. CP0's Irony
  3. Declaration
    PART 2: Kid & Law VS Big Mom
  4. Connection to Big Mom
  5. Reputation
  6. Disproving Apoo
  7. Growing Up
  8. Rivalry
  9. Power-Up
  10. The Tower
    Rebuttals
    Conclusion
    TLDR

PART 1:
Introduction

 After the young, powerful pirates leading the next generation have advanced this far in the New World, they've now been pitted up against the toughest enemies they have ever faced; an alliance between two monstrous Emperors. While the cordial defeat of both pirates may still seem like an uncertainty due to their immense strength, there's quite a lot of evidence than first meets the eye for its plausibility. 

 Seeing as Kaido's defeat has always been very clear, the first part of this theory will instead focus towards a more contested topic of how Big Mom's defeat in Wano fits narratively as an associated development to Kaido's. The second part of this theory will focus on plot aspects, and why Kid is going to be a main figure responsible for it, alongside Law.

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(1) Changing Era

 To start things off, a very key sign since the raid began towards Big Mom's defeat was when Marco kicked the Queen Mama Chanter off the waterfall. After doing this, he went on to say how the era would look different the next time the Big Mom Pirates show up.

 As for the context of these parting words, they were stated directly towards the Big Mom Pirates. If their crew is in for a rude awakening the next time they show up, then Big Mom's defeat would make this quote much more appropriate for them rather than simply Kaido, who they aren't nearly as relevant towards in comparison.

 If both of the last significant pirates of the old generation are simultaneously wiped out, then it would not only lend to surpassing the already existing precedent of a single Emperor defeat with Whitebeard, but it also enables the overarching "new generation" that much more, as they would be able to rise to the top with no more old generation above them. https://imgur.com/a/RbeJ5sQ
Imgur
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(2) CP0's Irony

 During CP0's introduction in Onigashima, they had chosen to group up Kaido and Big Mom together when saying "If, by some chance, two Emperors should fall... *but this is an unnecessary concern.*" For one thing, it's already known how this speech is meant to be ironic for Kaido's side of things at least, since it's obvious for the reader how he *will* be going down.

 If things already look so clear cut for Kaido, then Big Mom suffering a similar fate as she’s paired up with him here would make this quote end up perfectly fitting for that ironic effect, when being able to look back at this in hindsight after the war is over.

Speaking of irony, many of CP0's scenes during this war are being used for this exact literary device.

Examples:

a) - They thought their buisness partner Orochi was dead, when he wasn't.

b) - They thought the outcome of this battle would undoubtedly be the alliance's defeat and think that Kaido can't possibly lose, when that isn't the case.

c) - They hoped Momo's fruit was destroyed in Punk Hazard's explosion, when it wasn't.

d) - They think Momo's fruit was only a failure, when it may continue proving not to be later in this arc. This is evident by how well Momo is controlling it now.

e) - They originally thought our allies would surrender after Luffy lost, but none did.

f) - They think Who's Who has no relevant information that could harm the World Government, when in actuality he knows about Nika.

g) - They thought Jinbei had a chance to do the work for them and kill Who's Who, when they're mistaken. Jinbei isn't as brutal as he used to be, and he didn't end up killing WW after all.

 As seen here, out of the few scenes CP0 has gotten, they primarily exist for making inverse statements, and the opposite of what they originally believe actually ends up being true. This becomes more than telling when factoring in their opening "two Emperor fall" speech, since they had believed it was a definite unnecessary concern to even think about happening.
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(3) Declaration

 As for Luffy, he has went on record multiple times declaring that the reason he's here with everyone isn't only to defeat Kaido, but all of them including Big Mom. Even if defeating Big Mom in Wano is too much for Luffy to realistically do himself on top of Kaido, it's no different from all the 99%+ other people he listed in these speeches. 

 It's not as though Luffy is literally going to be the one defeating Orochi, Big Mom, the officers, Oniwabanshu, AND everyone else. Instead, what Luffy is doing here is seeding up the general precedent for Big Mom's defeat *by the alliance*, along with all those other people he listed. This is essentially Luffy showcasing how much confidence he has for their side actually following through on beating everyone one way or another, from a general sense.

 All in all, it's an absolute must for Big Mom to be defeated somehow for this arc to actually conclude feasibly. She has to be taken care of before Wano is liberated so that the alliance can have that huge, leisurely party that Luffy discussed before the raid.
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PART 2:
Kid & Law VS Big Mom

 Due to the defeat of Big Mom already being quite probable with such a surmount of evidence to go off, all it comes down to now is a matter of which specific member(s) of the hyped up new generation are going to be responsible for doing it. As things currently stand, it's looking very likely for it to be by the hands of Kid and Law respectively, especially considering how much the matchup is being pushed recently.

 For the outcome of the matchup, Kid and Law shouldn't have ever been pitted against Big Mom if their purpose was just to fail, seeing as the country is doomed if she isn't taken care of. This means they're at least going to have a very good showing, if not actually get to the breaking point of defeating her.

 Even besides the evident matchup that's being done amongst the characters right now, there are other aspects going for this defeat of Big Mom to make the development feel more realistic by the hands of Kid at least, which will be listed here.
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(4) Connection to Big Mom

 Although the existence of the Emperors had been known for a while, Eustass Kid was actually the first character to ever showcase enough knowledge of Big Mom to the point where he actually namedropped her in Chapter 581, as she was the last Yonko to be mentioned in the story. This was certainly a surprise to readers at the time, and effectively came off as Kid being one of the first characters to ever have a possible link to her.

 This speech even showcased how Kid has a general interest in Emperors, which went on to become a defining ambition of his character.
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Kid has set his sights on Emperors very early on and has had the most confrontations with them out of the Supernova. (Fighting the Red Hairs, Kaido, and now Big Mom). His desire to take them down as a long-standing goal has even been exceedingly highlighted in Chapter 1029.

 This means there's definitely more than enough build up for Kid to claim an Emperor, and it just comes down to actually following through on his goal this time.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/895227355172306975/902242475928854528/combine_images.jpg

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To carry on the established knowledge Kid showcased about Big Mom despite being a previously unspecified character, she was then revealed to be the first known Yonko Kid had already scuffled with in 651, before even Luffy. This was later expanded upon by Kid informing how he injured an unidentified Sweet General in the process and took something valuable from Totland as well.

image0.png
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During a very defining chapter of the series which was 1000, Kid happened to be directly facing towards Big Mom. As for Luffy, he was more closely lined up against Kaido during the standoff. This may have been potential foreshadowing all along at which figures between these two would then go on to be the primary figures behind each Yonko take-down. https://imgur.com/a/58O4dSj

Imgur
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Although Kid stated he never directly went for Big Mom's head prior, he now has sound reasoning to harbour a direct grudge against her, seeing as how she was the only one to directly injure him and Killer throughout the fight on the rooftop.

 Notably, Big Mom even seems to value her grudge with Kid over Luffy as of late, as she decided to head back into the castle specifically to find him, instead of flying back to the roof and continuing to destroy Luffy and the others alongside Kaido. https://imgur.com/a/Pwcb5d1
Imgur
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(5) Reputation

 During Chapter 928, Kid learned through Caribou how his past achievement in Totland wasn't actually known to the outside world properly, and that rumours instead spread about him having shamefully lost that confrontation, which he rightfully appeared quite angry about. If the main reason behind Kid's currently tattered reputation is in fact Big Mom, then it sets up the precedent for him to act on wanting to get back at her, if given the opportunity.

 And now, Kid choosing to fight Big Mom lends itself as a golden opportunity for him to completely reverse all those bad rumours that used to exist in relation to her, which makes potential victory over her so fitting. Moreover, this is a good time as any to allow the specifics of the General's identity and stolen item from Kid's past voyage to finally be expanded upon during this fight.
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(6) Disproving Apoo

 If Apoo truly isn't switching sides, then it means his main purpose left in this arc is to have his futile mindset towards taking down Emperors which he was so adamant in declaring to be disproved. If that's the case, then the way this development would befit the absolute most is for Kid to play a direct role in beating an Emperor here. This is especially considering Kid was the *sole person* whom Apoo was very vehemently directing his speech towards, during the actual scene.

 The fact that Kid and Law are even forming a temporary pirate alliance against Big Mom only pushes this development more, and that it's now coming full circle for them to prove Apoo's speech wrong on all accounts. Apoo has even been made to stay conscious throughout all his conflicts to see this occur.

 Essentially, the moral of the story will be that Kid *teaming up* can in fact allow him to *crush an Emperor* such as Big Mom, whilst *pirate alliances*, such as the current one he has with Law against her will also achieve a "*happy ending*" as a result of that grand achievement. https://imgur.com/a/jOpAY24
Imgur
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(7) Growing Up

 Although Kid said prior he's sick of alliances and that he won't trust anyone, throughout the raid he's gradually grown warmer to Luffy and the others. This is evident through him complimenting Zoro, taking on the burden to deal with Big Mom for everyone, and smiling after hearing Luffy was alive.

 If part of Kid's purpose is to "grow up" as Law said and become warm towards pirate alliances, then to hammer home this development for Kid, it stands to reason for him to actually have an amazing experience out of his alliance this time around.

 If such a great experience out of finally opening up his trust again is to be attained, then this teamwork allowing the possibility of Kid achieving his long-standing goal of claiming an Emperor sounds like just the right development to fully propel Kid's character forward in this direction it's been slowly drifting towards.

 Victory over Big Mom would be contrary to Kid not gaining anything fruitful out of this alliance, or going as far as losing the Big Mom fight with Law. Negative outcomes such as these are highly unlikely to occur, as they would keep Kid's mindset stagnant, or make him regress back to hating alliances even more if things go sour again. Given the direction Kid's recent build-up has of seeing the merit in allies, his alliance is bound to have an overly positive result to see that development through to the end. https://imgur.com/a/CYVhccf
Imgur
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(8) Rivalry

 If Kid really ends up claiming a main share of Big Mom's defeat, then it would be a solid way to keep Luffy and Kid's rivalry alive even after this arc, especially when it's clear how much the author enjoys the dynamic of him competing with Kid especially. (And more seldomly Law only if all 3 are grouped together).

 During this arc, Luffy and Kid have been grouped up with similar achievements all over, whether it have been through:

  • labour,

  • becoming shining stars of the prison,

  • ship racing to Onigashima in which they both made it first,

  • climbing floor-by-floor to the rooftop at around the same rate,

  • having similar introductions against their respective Yonko, where they slam their heads to the ground.

    These aren't just mere coincidences anymore. It's what's generally portrayed between the two, even if they differ in plenty of specifics. This means the trend merely needs to continue for the last stretch of the arc, in which they also leave Wano similarly, both claiming one Yonko each.

    If Kid doesn't claim a Yonko with Law despite being pitted against one in the same vein as Luffy, then it would effectively be shutting down the substance behind this built up mutual competitiveness, which is a key part of Kid's character. https://imgur.com/a/F1anCdZ

Imgur
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(9) Power-Up

 As a recap, Wano so far has been a huge power-up centric arc, with Luffy alone getting plenty of power-ups, along with Zoro/Enma/Asura, Sanji/Body/Raid Suit, Chopper showcasing his increased Monster Point duration, Nami's new Zeus-Tact, and even Big Mom herself with Hera.

 During Kid's past battle with Kaido, he kept repeatedly showing interest in the way Luffy was going about hurting Kaido. This was shown right at the beginning with Red Roc, again during his Gatling, and after he reverted out of Gear 4. This is also where Kid took interest in the prospect of having a risky fighting style to do "full damage" as he put it, before his thought process behind the dialogue was conspicuously cut short...

 It's looking pretty clear how all these instances of interest are meant to be followed up by Kid attaining his own way of dealing even greater damage. Whether this be through a high-risk-high-reward application of his fruit or even awakening is yet to be decided, but some kind of power-up seems inevitable against Big Mom at this point.
image0.png
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(10) The Tower

 During Hawkins' battle with Killer, there was a constant clash of ideals between the two in regards to the towering figures of the sea. For this dialogue, BOTH Big Mom and Kaido were included together as unbeatable figures in Hawkins' mind, whereas Killer believes in his captain to go through with beating Big Mom and reaching his claim to fame. Given the context of who won this fight between the Supernova, it's seeming exceedingly clear whose ideal in regards to the outcome of Kid's battle is going to come true..

 This is quite a self explanatory point for this theory,  however it's important to mention that the narrator highlighted the readings of the Tower card exactly as it panned to Kid and Big Mom. "The collapse of the old and brittle" sounds very suitably pointed towards Big Mom, whilst carving "a new way forward" fits Kid, whose creed from his vivre card is "The magnetic captain who creates his own path."

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/895227355172306975/902683353688465418/7CBF4677-15CB-4D16-BB7F-F3B19A281E1D.jpg

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First Rebuttal

But Law was a rival to Luffy and he couldn't beat Doflamingo, so Kid and Law shouldn't beat Big Mom either.

 Back in Dressrosa, Doflamingo was the only final villain of the arc, so Law must have lost to give Luffy the final shining moments against him. For Wano however, it's different as there's two big villains, and they both must be taken care of. This means Dressrosa's situation just isn't a fair equivalence to give to Wano.

 Seeing as Luffy will have his hands full with Kaido, this gives room for other characters to freely shine as much as they please against the other Emperor, such as Kid and Law who are clearly pitted against her right now.
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Second Rebuttal

Luffy is the one who said he's going to beat Big Mom multiple times, so it should be him.

 It's true that Luffy talked big to Big Mom and Katakuri on *coming back* to beat her up, but those promises have already been long since outdated seeing as Big Mom left Totland herself. Due to this, all we need to do is look at what Luffy has actually said right here and now in Wano in regards to Big Mom, to figure out what happens to her.

 As mentioned prior in this theory, Luffy has already declared twice that he's here to claim victory over Big Mom, in the same vein as Orochi, the officers, and every other enemy on Onigashima. This is meant to show the level of determination Luffy's character has, and that ALL these people will be defeated one way or another, *even if not exactly by him*.

 While it's true that Luffy's revised statements against Big Mom being defeated does serve as foreshadowing for her general defeat, they still aren't meant to be taken as literal gospel for him being the one to do it. Just like Luffy obviously isn't the one beating Orochi and the officers, as he won't always be the one able to do everything in the story.
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Conclusion

 All in all, it's in the story's best interest to have Big Mom taken care of in Wano, especially considering the sheer content and magnitude this longest arc in the series has already. And unlike the remaining two Emperors, Big Mom has the most history with Kaido, meaning her character is at a certain high right now, and will continue to be once she's even showcased more in Kaido's Rocks flashback later. Clearing out these two oldest members of the Emperor System will truly make it feel like the "Yonko" Saga has been wrapped up, which will finally pave the way to the final saga with only younger pirates spearheading the climax of this series as a whole.
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TLDR

Big Mom has a very strong precedence for being taken down in Wano alongside Kaido, particularly by leading forces such as Kid and Law. This is evident by:

  1. Marco's parting words directly to the Big Mom Pirates.

  2. CP0's Ironic speech stating how the two Emperors falling is an unnecessary concern.

  3. Luffy setting up the general precedent for Big Mom's defeat in Wano through multiple speeches in this arc.

  4. Strengthens the ongoing theme of the new generation if both remaining old generation fall.

  5. Kid is a main contender to claim Big Mom's defeat alongside Law with all his past connections to her, and the extent at which this fight has been set-up

  6. Kid has relevance to Big Mom, as he was not only the first character to ever namedrop her, but had an altercation before even Luffy in which she falsely tattered his reputation.

  7. Defeating Big Mom would create a reversal on those previous false rumours, which is why victory over her would be so fitting for Kid.

  8. Big Mom holds a notable grudge with Kid as she chose to chase him into the castle over flying back on the roof to kill Luffy with Kaido.

  9. Kid and Law being responsible in the crushing of Big Mom and achieving a 'happy ending' with their alliance would be the perfect way to prove Apoo's unambitious Yonko speech that was directed specifically against Kid wrong.

  10. Kid having an amazing experience with this alliance by actually accomplishing their goal of beating Big Mom would give Kid his final push to grow up and become the fully trusting character he's been developing into.

  11. Kid and Law being responsible for Big Mom's defeat is the best way to live up to their established competitive dynamic with Luffy throughout this arc, instead of losing and shattering it.

gloomy canyon
#

Thank you Shim

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I'll read it after the podcast is over, I'm excited

dusky acorn
#

No problem, enjoy the read and get back to me on anything you feel like discussing. Also here you guys go @lyric dust @ancient vault

hidden tinsel
#

oooh naisuuuu

weak arrow
#

Sorry shimon didnt realize you werent done

dusky acorn
#

Oh it's fine lmao, I still appreciate the effort Adam.

lyric dust
#

thanks for pinging me btw 👍

#

also, do you think that kid's going to use the huge sword, or something?

nocturne iron
#

I like your way of thinking about this

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A lot of what you've said essentially resolves my criticism of kid, which is as things are right now he does mot make a good rival for luffy. I have mentioned here I have been mostly unimpressed here by his character as an equal to luffy. My thought process was that the purpose of this arc is to develop luffy as towering over his generation and the front runner for pirate king. I do think there is an alternative that if Big Mom were defeated by Kid it would redeem him as a potential equal to luffy and it would fit neater in the coming of a new era where Black Beard, Luffy, Kid and Law represent the new generation of four emperors. The other thing that makes your theory plausible is that Luffy does not have a real reason to Beat Big Mom, because he already has obtained her poneglyph, and if I recall correctly this mirrors what happened with Gold Roger's crew.

dusky acorn
# lyric dust also, do you think that kid's going to use the huge sword, or something?

The gigantic Onigashima sword isn't something that came to my mind while writing this actually, but maybe. It's definitely like, the single-most grand metallic structure on the island.
The main thing that deters me from the sword still is that the way Kid took interest in Luffy's punches and devil fruit. He seems to be leading towards a power-up either directly related to his own fruit, haki or physical punching fighting style. But yeah, the sword would still be amazing to see used

dusky acorn
lyric dust
#

I feel like controlling the sword would take too much energy and attention to do mid-fight, so I think he'll probably use it at the end, as a last resort or finishing move.

#

when big moms on the floor or something

wicked grove
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Shim that’s an extremely well thought out theory I buy into

dusky acorn
#

The sword if anything is definitely something that could fit the themeatics of an exceution and final attack, yep. I'd probably prefer that over it being a part of his regular toolkit for the whole fight

wicked grove
#

I really enjoyed reading that

dusky acorn
#

Thanks a lot, Mugiwara! np

lyric dust
#

and the spotlight would kinda be shifted from his power to the sword

true flame
#

Did you post this on the sub?

wicked grove
#

Kid really needs a moment to shine. Beating BM reaffirms his coolness to all of us. Really hope Law gets some kind of power up too. They can definitely fill Yonko positions

dusky acorn
nocturne iron
# dusky acorn Yeah I think that's where the main problem lies, the expectations vs reality so ...

I mean I am not covinced this is how things will pan out, but its more plausible than what people view now where a lot of people essentially stan for kid because of his initial presentation. Another thing, I think that makes your theory plausible is that Luffy's initial challenge to Big Mom was more about declaring Fishman Island as his territory. I think the reality is it does not necessarily need to be him that defeats big mom, he only needs to prove that he is powerful enough not ot be messed with and beating Kaido will accomplish that, along with anyone defeating Big Mom. It does not need to be Luffy. The other thing is reading further into it there is a very good chance that Luffy will blow up Fishman Island, probably to keep Joy Boy's promise.

dusky acorn
#

Yeah that's right, and something to keep in mind is how even Gol D. Roger wasn't someone who was responsible for taking down all his competitors, it just isn't a necessary thing to become Pirate King. Luffy taking down Kaido makes a lot of sense not only because it's what this whole arc built up to, but so that he's free to take his road glyph afterwards, since it's one of the two he doesn't actually have

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But yeah, that's understandable. Even I'm going to need a couple more chapters of Big Mom screentime to really be 100% on some things, and fill in between these lines more

true flame
lyric dust
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the lack of screentime kid and killer get is why I'm on the fence about this theory CRY

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mostly killer tbh

dusky acorn
#

That's also why I think Killer is going to go down similar to Zoro midway through, I don't think he necessarily needs to be there fighting up until the very end

lyric dust
#

yeah

true flame
#

If Kidd/Killer take down BM, would it be the first instance of Luffy not taking down someone he said he would?

dusky acorn
#

Nope, there's also Jack who I mentioned, along with Orochi, his followers, etc which were mentioned in the same vein as Big Mom by Luffy in this arc

nocturne iron
# dusky acorn Yeah that's right, and something to keep in mind is how even Gol D. Roger wasn't...

I think as I read One PIece more, I think the reason Gol D. Roger is considered Pirate King has less to do with strength and more to do with him being the first to sail every island and also him knowing the True History. I am very sympathetic to the theory that upon discovering true history, that he essentially instigated the next coming of Joy Boy by saying he left One Piece in Raftel. One Piece itself may be referring to missing piece of history

winter wave
nocturne iron
# lyric dust the lack of screentime kid and killer get is why I'm on the fence about this the...

I actually think this is a good way to handle it. This is luffy's story and in some sense Big Mom has outstayed her welcome since we already had WCI. Letting Kid and Killer take care of her is a good way to wrap up the story quickly rather than to have a drawn out several chapter fight, which is what would be expected if it was Luffy v.s. Big Mom. Remember most side character v.s. side character one piece are a chapter or a few panels (i.e. Black Beard vs Ace) this makes sense if you operate your theories under a belief that one piece has 250 chapters to go or less.

half turtle
#

Has anyone here mentioned that Dragon could show up in Wano soon

winter wave
half turtle
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I don't think he is honestly

nocturne iron
#

Now here is my contribution to theories about Wano. The last chatper (the party chapter) will be titled Wano Pisu. That is all.

weak arrow
half turtle
#

I know Kaido and Big Mom could probably effect the clouds but I feel like he at least might be watching right now based on what Kid said about the clouds in 1010

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since ya know prior to them weather based stuff was kinda his thing

dusky acorn
nocturne iron
lyric dust
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it's just a screentime problem which i fucking hate

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swap the KP and SH's role in the series and I will 100% believe it.

wicked grove
#

Always room for spin-offs

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The spin-off potential of One Piece is incomprehensible

lyric dust
#

I wonder if Kid would be able to take Napoleon away using his powers or something, and then use him against BM

nocturne iron
# lyric dust yeah, it's definitely a good way to go about things. I'm just really on the fenc...

I don't think Killer is important. Really its Kid that need to shine. I can also see the other routes as being still plausible, i.e. luffy takes out both of them and gets all the credit and becomes front runner for pirtate king. My read on the story was that was the point of the arc and shanks/black beard would clash and shanks would lose. Which would setup an eventual clash between Black Beard v.s. Luffy. This especially the way I was leaning, because Law has been relegated to being an unofficial member of the SHs (he has been sailing with them 300 chapters, his being luffy's subordinate is a running joke, luffy basically achieved his raison d'etre for him, he even had a crew mate flashback and luffy rescue mission) and Kid basically looking like he was on verge of becoming completely irrelevant as a rival (i was expecting him to disband his crew). This is the first theory I've seen that actually makes Kid relevant

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With Law you can at least do some intellectual back flips and say he is still just luffy's parterner.

olive pewter
nocturne iron
#

This is the story of how Zeus joins Nami

#

Betrayal Dun Dun Dun

half turtle
wicked cairn
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I haven't been on here in so long and I see this well-done and tender theory by Shimon about kid pirates and it gets me excited to read it.

dusky acorn
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Lol thanks PYP. Seeing you in here again makes me nostalgic back to last year where it was us just rapid firing out random KP theories. But yeah, this time around as Nanashi noticed, I made sure not to discuss things like Kid's opening Sabaody portrayal, or plans by Oda, etc. Because those are the type of things people talk about in practically every theory in regards to him, so it's sorta redundant. (Though they are good points, I tried to bring more unique analysis to the table).

grizzled fog
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Love it shim

wicked cairn
#

I really wish Kid was off-screened a lot less, because with him taking a turn and going after Big Mom instead of, what I expected, ganging up on Kaido, it makes it unclear what his specific motives are. Yes, I do know he wants to get his revenge on Kaido for torturing his crew and possibly confiscating his island, fleet, and goods, but how deep down does he really want to exact his revenge? One thing that was established was his distrusts in pirate alliances(or that one alliance to be exact), is he really going to trust the defeat of Kaido in the hands of the other 3 supernovas?

Kid since his introduction had a deep respect for Luffy as a pirate, I wonder if he had a change of heart and Luffy maybe inspired some confidence or change of plans to how he will take on the Yonko that made him so confident in going after Big Mom with only killer and leaving Kaido to the other 3, rather than thinking of worst-case scenario and having to deal with Big Mom and Kaido right after

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I have so many questions

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As you mentioned, I know his fighting style is going to change. We haven't even seen him use any advanced haki or hardening(black metal?), and he has been conservative since the start. He is strong enough to take direct hits from Big Mom, but that was only revealed to us when he was willing to do it for the sake of splitting the emperor duo.

dusky acorn
#

I do think Kid's grown respect for the other 3 is also part of the reason for this, since he does seem to trust them to handle Kaido now.

#

And not even Luffy, but Zoro and Sanji have also gone through power-ups for this arc, and they're not even captains. Enma, return of Asura, Raid Suit. There's no way Kid is being left out without some amendment to his battle to make him stronger

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Though yeah, he did already change things up by going the compacting route with sheer mass, but even he still seems to think there's stronger things he could be doing, or else he wouldn't be taking interest in Luffy's haki and G4

wicked cairn
#

Also it is interesting that you talked about a new iteration of Zeus. I just wanted to point out that it looks like Oda used the same hatching and pattern techniques to draw the clouds, so that is likely what is happening. A Furious Big Mom vs Kid and Killer.

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For future spectulation, if it were to happen, I'm expecting it to be something like Killer to handle the homies and Kid to go straight of Big Mom. Even though Kid could probably defend himself, maybe not from Napoleon, he will probably get rocked until he gets his own power-up and is able to make Big Mom bleed. the second I see big mom start bleeding I know it is on

Both Big Mom and Kid would be fighting seriously because they have a reputation to protect

winter wave
#

Do you guys think that if the current Luffy clashes with Kaido it will split the skies ?

wicked cairn
#

yeah when luffy has to go G4

gloomy canyon
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@dusky acorn Amazing Shim. I agree with everything you said in the first part and I'm glad you brought up that Marco panel with him talking to the BM Pirates, I always forget to use that as evidence. I also never noticed how Kid and Killer were facing BM in the 1000 spread lol. That's very interesting. My favorite part about the idea of Kid taking down BM is, as you said, a restoration of his seemingly "tattered" reputation. He's a very prideful guy and his eagerness to jump straight onto BM this chapter after she fell definitely felt like more than just wanting to "stick to the plan". Great catch. We've definitely talked many times about how we agree that Wano signifies the downfall of the old generation and emergence of the new, so with you 100% on that. I too agree that Oda has been setting them up as rivals who compete and always tend to have similar achievements. As much as Luffy is going to shine and get credit for defeating Kaido, I would hate for Kid to get Bege type treatment. Although Luffy is going to be Pirate King, and may very well be stronger than Kid, that doesn't take away from how they are being portrayed as rivals. Luffy just leaving him in the dust after this arc wouldn't feel right.

I was always a big proponent as well for Big Mom not having to go to Elbaf even tho her origins are from there. I think she could always just be viewed as Elbaf's biggest enemy and that never had to be reconciled. But I never considered how the segue into that arc would be an invitation from them after hearing the news of BM's defeat. That is super interesting and I love it. All for it if Oda chose to do that. And yeah, I have big expectations for some powerups from Kid. I don't even need super advanced haki techniques, anything to do with further applications of his DF and potentially an awakening would be legendary

dusky acorn
wicked cairn
#

King Kong Gun and either probably some enhanced punk gibson, or the giant onigashima sword, against Hakai to wrap it up?

dusky acorn
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Great to hear you agree with so much of it Evan. Yep, his awakening out of many fruits in the series seems like one of the more writable ones from this series' standpoint, which is why it'd be cool to see, unlike some fruits such as Viola or Toki's

lyric dust
wicked cairn
lyric dust
#

yep

weary geyser
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We need to see Usopp shine

wicked cairn
#

there are actually quite a bit of strong opposition left im surprised the alliance was able to hold out so long. There is Apoo who got clapped like 3 times in a row still up and running, Hawkins, Who's Who, King, Queen, pretty much all of the Tobi Roppo except Drake who swapped sides

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also perospero and jack. also the big mom pirates who are coming with Smoothie and probably Snack(anime revealed this one though)

lyric dust
#

i'm really dying to see an update on the tobiroppo fights

polar bison
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they think the end result will be the alliances defeat, when it obviously won’t be

morj rolling in the grave he dug for himself

great theory shim. I’ve come around on BM’s downfall more. Idk if she herself will like die or get her final defeat, but at the very least I bet her status as yonkou is revoked, or she reverts to linlin, or her crew is fucked up, or even Kidd is the key to her defeat (an

but like,,,, no matter what, i’m still really struggling to think Wano will be the ultimate end of the BM character arc. I feel like we’re due for resolution with katakuri, and the giant connection, and why she is the way she is, and idk that it would feel appropriate to have all the focus this would require on her in Wano

#

@dusky acorn forgot to @ u

wicked cairn
#

i've always thought big mom pirates will just dissolve whenever big mom dies or just something bad happens to her. charlotte family has a responsibility to look over totto land, but it will be totto land without their empress, or whatever they call big mom.

verbal vector
wicked cairn
#

i think he would be better off as president or premier of totto land

grizzled fog
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Btw shim, you may have addressed this already, but do you see anyone else helping kid and killer with big mom?

dusky acorn
# polar bison <@!165877926498140161> forgot to @ u

Lol, well at least Morj may have gotten the Zoro coc thing right, but I think he used up all his luck in making that theory OMEGALUL

Same, ever since she finally split up from Kaido and the current direction of things, it feels like her defeat is more plausible. If she was simply with Kaido the whole time, I was thinking she'd just betray and run away from him at the first sight of the poneglyph, but now that she's secluded things are a lot spicer right now

I think the same., it could be any number of roundabout ways Big Mom gets defeated or loses her Yonko reputation, as long as we still get Kid putting up a really good fight against her to prove himself before the arbitrary way of her defeat happens.

Unlike Kaido, I can't exactly see her as someone who would die, even if she's facing Kid. That's why I vaguely just reiterated the point of her being 'defeated'. I don't know how exactly that will take place. I'm going to have to see where this fight goes to make more decisive predictions on how the rest of the fight is going to go down.

grizzled fog
#

As much as I’d love for them to beat her alone, she’s taken virtually no damage, so I feel they’re gonna need at least one or two more strong fighters with them

winter wave
#

I watched the anime episode 969 and they talked about two rulers one bieng Shirahoshi (obviously) and another being Being born in a distant sea. Is it Luffy (That would make sence i guess) or Momonosuke ?

dusky acorn
# grizzled fog Btw shim, you may have addressed this already, but do you see anyone else helpin...

It's really hard to say, especially in the isolated location they're in now. For one thing, since Prometheus continues to appear as the biggest nuisance out of the homies, having Marco come up would be nice, to really get an explanation on why his flames are able to damage himand all.
Thing is though, he seems to have his hands completely full on the performance floor, along with Perospero creeping up on him

grizzled fog
#

One thing I’d absolutely hate is if kid and killer fight her for a while, and get defeated. Leaving her for someone else. I’d despise that outcome

#

Yea, Hawkins is unaccounted for which automatically makes him one of the best candidates, I’m a bit concerned as to how they’ll actually bring her down because of this tbh

nocturne iron
#

Kid and Killer do the leg work. Luffy defeats kaido, passes out, falls off the platform thing, on to bounces on to big mom

polar bison
#

a lot of the strawhats have entangled w bm already

nocturne iron
#

knocked out. Vemqi drops one piece.

polar bison
#

wouldn’t mind them getting involved post flying 6 fights

#

esp if this is supposed to be her defeat

grizzled fog
#

I have a feeling drake is gonna fight queen with chopper, but if he for some reason doesn’t or maybe if he does and is still in good shape afterwards he can help kid and killer and hopefully Hawkins with big mom? Four would probably be enough just barely

dusky acorn
#

Yeah many of the SH do have history with Big Mom

grizzled fog
#

Although, if part of the purpose of Kid and Killer fighting big mom is to get the credit themselves with four luffy or law taking it, wouldnt having Strawhats join kinda mess that up?

wicked cairn
#

The outcome of both of them being defeated is highly unlikely and anti-climatic. Worst case scenario would be Killer gets defeated, the battle gets postponed and neither Big Mom or Kid were able to finish each other.

On the topic of how Kid and Killer could beat her there are several ways:

  1. Kid learns to use his CoC to deal damage to Big Mom. This is likely to happen sometime during the fight, because I still question how he was able to use repel on Big Mom, which is an elementary level technique. Big Mom obviously has stronger haki, but repel being effective on Big Mom may either hint at CoC application, or the possiblity of the second point happening.

2.Kid awakens his devil fruit. If this happens, his devil fruit is fully awakened, and him being able to use repel on Big Mom was just a hint of his awakening, and the properties of his devil fruit are fully explained then.

3.Kid uses new techniques combined with his strongest CoA application to go all out, just like Luffy does in G4

grizzled fog
#

What was confusing about repel? He just attached his metal to her and pushed that

wicked cairn
#

did he?

grizzled fog
#

Yea, 1 sec

polar bison
#

^

wicked cairn
#

oh i see it

grizzled fog
#

You can see he grabs her arm with his metal arm, and when she flies up the metal is still attached to her

#

Awakening for kid would be awesome though,

dusky acorn
#

Kid already got his vivre card and his fruit wasn't named then, right. Should mean he's due for some hype moment in the future where it's named, I think. Isn't that normally how the track record of Supernova fruit name reveals go in-story?

#

I know Hawkins revealed his fruit as he was going up against Luffy/Zoro which was a pretty cool moment for him, Law got his revealed by Smoker in that fight he won, and Bege revealed his right before using Big Father iirc

wicked cairn
#

yeah if kid's df capabilities thus far was his apex he would have monologued about it when he made punk rotten

#

and punk rotten definitely isn't the peak of his df potential, especially when it only lasted about 4-5 chapters and we got two named attacks out of it.
not to mention he still has even more metal. if punk rotten is so good, why not 2 punk rottens? crocoKidd

keen portal
#

Another interesting thing I noticed with Kid and Killer is that they're not on top of the dome of the skull anymore.

They seem to be standing on the outcroppings of the island lower down below

1010-0062.png
dusky acorn
#

Oh my goodness, I did not catch that wow they really ran far

waxen light
#

Oh man, good analysis as always, Shim. NamiPray
Kid and Killer have really grown on me this entire arc, I'm hoping for a big W against BM.

#

Seeing his attitude change from Udon to this fight has been a delight. Teamwork makes the dream work, baybeee. BepoBlush

unknown.png
keen portal
#

His attitude changed mainly after Hakai, after seeing that the members of this new alliance will actually put their lives on the line for each other, and not just in name.

I'd wager he's grown to trust Luffy Law and Zoro now. And because he's done so, he can go take care of things that they can't.

pastel summit
# dusky acorn

nice theory. thoughts on specifically this part. this is post-WB defeat, and Kid over the past 2 yrs (I'm gonna assume it's over the past 2 yrs, and not all recently), has gone to each of specifically these 3 emperors' territories (albeit, he was captured by Kaido, not willingly went there). So do you think there's room for Kid in whenever we go and meet Blackbeard? If I go along with this, that Kid is more the parallel than Blackbeard, which I'm fine with from a narrative standpoint, then their fight with all the Emperors, then it'd make sense if Kid also makes an appearance in Blackbeard's arc. Blackbeard being the newest emperor makes sense why Kid hasn't gone there yet, not enough time to plan for it or whatever.

#

Either way, open to this idea as well. Probably more likely than my BB theory, purely because of 1010, showcasing Luffy developing an ability that lets him compete with Kaido. I can imagine Kid maybe not necessarily developing that specific power (though he could, which ties into him having CoC), but finding a specific way to defeat BM, and BM coming back probably means she's not going to leave.

#

also side note, but I'd love if BM and Kaido's defeat/death results in the simultaneous dissipation of both crews wills. BM's crew losing any sense of direction with BM de(ad)feated. Beast Pirates losing any kind of leader, and having their wills broken by kaido, lose any will to fight after he is de(ad)feated.

dusky acorn
# pastel summit nice theory. thoughts on specifically this part. this is post-WB defeat, and Kid...

So do you think there's room for Kid in whenever we go and meet Blackbeard? If I go along with this, that Kid is more the parallel than Blackbeard, which I'm fine with from a narrative standpoint, then their fight with all the Emperors, then it'd make sense if Kid also makes an appearance in Blackbeard's arc

I can definitely see there being room for Blackbeard for Kid, even moreso if two Yonko are wiped off the board, since it really helps clear the way for things.
Although, Kid doesn't have immediate reason to pit himself against Blackbeard, since Shanks comes first for him after this, however I believe tying himself to Shanks should in theory inevitably lead to him meeting Blackbeard as part of that. Blackbeard's own reunion to Shanks at some point is looking inevitable, especially if he's the pirate discussed with the Gorosei.

Blackbeard being the newest emperor makes sense why Kid hasn't gone there yet, not enough time to plan for it or whatever.
Yeah, the reason Kid hasn't clashed with Blackbeard despite his desire to topple Yonko makes sense, also since there was only really a 1 year window to meet him as the Yonko he is now. By that point Kid might have already had his grudge on Shanks to focus on more as well

#

Probably more likely than my BB theory, purely because of 1010, showcasing Luffy developing an ability that lets him compete with Kaido. I can imagine Kid maybe not necessarily developing that specific power (though he could, which ties into him having CoC), but finding a specific way to defeat BM, and BM coming back probably means she's not going to leave.
I do think your theory is still on the table for sure, but yeah this latest chapter seems to have hit the whole double Yonko defeat idea out of the park. Glad we agree on some eventual powerup for Kid though, as so many characters seem to be getting recently!

Coc is the thing I thought of too now since it's the main haki skill established for Kid, and the timing of it's reveal for him happening before the raid suddenly makes more sense if it was set-up to be expanded upon now. Unlike Zoro for example, who literally just had it revealed in smack dab in the middle fo the raid, and now probably won't get to do anything else with his Coc in this arc. Either way, yeah Big Mom seems bound to be defeated in some weird way, not before letting Kid shine in a pure fighting manner though. Definitely a good sign for her future defeat here if she hasn't fled when given the chance already.

I'd love if BM and Kaido's defeat/death results in the simultaneous dissipation of both crews wills. BM's crew losing any sense of direction with BM de(ad)feated. Beast Pirates losing any kind of leader, and having their wills broken by kaido, lose any will to fight after he is de(ad)feated.
This would be so great especially with how reliant on Big Mom's word people in her crew like Smoothie are. Some of them almost don't seem to have a mind to act on their own already.
As for Beast Pirates, it'd feel really satisfying to see the scummier side of Kaido's crew who didn't betray already go down in the most shameful way possible like that, by their former allies after losing their determination to carry on at full.

pastel summit
#

Yeah, I am thinking Shanks is probably the first Emperor Kid ever met with, probably went to his base really early on, got beaten badly, retained a grudge and slowly built himself up, which might tie into whatever he stole from BM? We're still not entirely sure what that's about, and I'm gonna assume that will be revealed here. Could be some object of power or influence. Not entirely sure whether Kid knows about the Road Poneglyphs or not, so idk if he would've went to get a rubbing, but who knows. There's a huge lack of background on the Kid Pirates and Kid's motives in general, which I hope get expanded upon if he really does get a proper fight with BM here, even if he's not necessarily defeating her.
I'm also still on the train of the SHs staying in Wano for a while after all the fighting is over, which gives room for Kid and potentially Law to go their own route again, which I'm pretty certain both will cross paths back with Luffy again even if they do leave. So Kid could go to Shanks which leads to Blackbeard. Either way, there are connections to both, so it's hard for me to imagine him not having a key part in either, if not both. I do wonder if Kid will try and set up an alliance like he did with the Hawkins-Apoo alliance, but with Luffy and Law though. It could be the penultimate destination of the trio to set up a huge power alliance. Or do you think they'll forever remain rivals that occasionally work together without a formal alliance between them?

golden cloud
#

@dusky acorn Thank you for this amazing theory. People like you really make me appreciate One Piece even more, than i already do! ❤️

grizzled fog
#

I personally hope Kid stays as a rival, as much as he may grow to respect luffy I just don’t see him forming a real lasting alliance with him

#

They both want to be Pirate king, neither is going to give up that dream until the very end

dusky acorn
lyric dust
#

as cool as it would be, it wouldn't "work."

pure raven
#

Time to read shims theory

dusky acorn
# pastel summit Yeah, I am thinking Shanks is probably the first Emperor Kid ever met with, prob...

Yeah, there's going to be some explanation needed on how exactly Kid knows about road glyphs if that were the case. I feel like it's too obvious at this point to just be that. It doesn't add much variety to the story to just be that either. It's basically teasing Kid trying to get to the OP when we readers know it's obviously a waste in the end since he won't actually be making Pirate King status.

which might tie into whatever he stole from BM
I've been thinking this for a long time as well. Like, isn't it really interesting how out of alll that time Kid was in the New World, it was only sometime after he lost to the Red Hairs that he was suddenly spurred to go into Big Mom's territory for something?
The timeline disparity between the Red Hair fight and Totland voyage doesn't actually seem to be long at all either. We know this considering Kid wasn't really out and about in the public eye in between those two events much for people like Caribou to see how he clearly already lost his arm before going in there.

There's a huge lack of background on the Kid Pirates and Kid's motives in general, which I hope get expanded upon if he really does get a proper fight with BM here, even if he's not necessarily defeating her.
Agreed, which is also something I've picked up on very recently. There has to be some deeper motive for Kid besides just the One Piece, which is already a very common goal for dreaming pirates in the NW. If becoming a big pirate is all he's about, then he's sort of just Luffy and Bb except on a budget, which is pretty mediocre for a character meant to be such endgame material.

#

I do wonder if Kid will try and set up an alliance like he did with the Hawkins-Apoo alliance, but with Luffy and Law though. It could be the penultimate destination of the trio to set up a huge power alliance. Or do you think they'll forever remain rivals that occasionally work together without a formal alliance between them?
This is the one of the toughest decisions to make in regards to the WG trio. At the very least, a middle-ground I can think that might be reached is that the world at large will see this as an associated alliance between the three crews, so maybe even if the three of them didn't want to make their relation become like this, it'll be something sort of shoehorned onto them, which they passively go along with.

#

Maybe they stick around together, but Kid for one doesn't ever officially declare himself as a full fledged ally to them or something, even if it's what the world thinks

pastel summit
#

yeah that could work out. Especially if they're all tangled up in the same incidents. If we assume Law is riding with the SHs due to Robin being able to read the poneglyphs, and thus help him learn what the Will of D is, and there's very clear indications of Kid having ties to the remaining 2 emperors, I can see the world viewing them as an alliance, but they themselves, viewing themselves as independent.

dusky acorn
#

Oh I just realized, this would actually be a really neat extrapolation of what first happened at Sabaody

#

The marines and newspaper wrote Law and Kid as accomplices in the Celestial Dragon incidents, even though they didn't want to come off that way

#

Which they had no choice but to go along with afterwards, which only made them look even more like allies since they had to blast out of the auction house together. I guess the motive for stringing Kid along with Luffy and Law is already there then, so marines have more incentive to do it again this time

#

I think Smoker even reiterated about this during his fight with Law at PH. Yeah, I'm definitely going with this theory then

grizzled fog
#

That kind of makes it sound like the marines might push luffy as the head of the alliance by far and shaft kid and law for credit

#

Which could lead to another bege situation

dusky acorn
#

Maybe for Law it would, considering it'd continue the running gag of him being Luffy's subordinate, which even Kid dunks down on lol. But as for Kid himself, depending on how great his current feat over Big Mom is going to be, they're going to have no choice but to give him tons of credit

#

Ah, found what I was looking for

image0.png
#

So yeah, the incident having happened in accordance to all three of them as allies is very much a vivid memory in the marine/WG heads, giving more credence for them to want to associate Kid with them again, even if he doesn't want it

pure raven
#

@dusky acorn sorry for the ping just wanted to say i thought your theory was amazing I don’t usually read very long theories but reading this one was fun

dusky acorn
#

Oh nice, glad this one could hold your attention despite being very long. I suppose it helped that the hypothesis revolved around characters you also like.

sturdy hawk
#

Just finished reading it, and while I agree about the stakes Kidd has against Big Mom, I just think that the emperors' defeat is gonna be mainly down to Luffy due to the structure of Onigashima being "The ones who will not get crushed on the way will be victorious" mirroring the structure of the OP world and showing Luffy being that close to his goal of becoming Pirate King.

One thing you didn't mention in your rebuttals is the ties Big Mom and Luffy have to Fishman Island, which imo will be endgame content and explored upon once the weapons and the prophecy is foretold

#

But overall really nice theory, it was a great read FrankyThumbsUp

#

@dusky acorn

dusky acorn
# sturdy hawk Just finished reading it, and while I agree about the stakes Kidd has against Bi...

One thing you didn't mention in your rebuttals is the ties Big Mom and Luffy have to Fishman Island, which imo will be endgame content and explored upon once the weapons and the prophecy is foretold
Oh right, I'll think up and edit an argument for this later, thanks. Good thing I saved those extra posts for insurance at the end. On that note, I'll probably be continually adding more to this theory as we see the fight against Big Mom progress as well. (Or may as well scrap it if she really does end up being impossible to take down)

I just think that the emperors' defeat is gonna be mainly down to Luffy due to the structure of Onigashima being "The ones who will not get crushed on the way will be victorious" mirroring the structure of the OP world and showing Luffy being that close to his goal of becoming Pirate King.
I would want Luffy to take down Big Mom as much as the next person, but it's such a struggle to think of a practical way for Luffy to have that kind of energy left in him after Kaido.
I know it looks pretty weird since Luffy has basically always been responsible for the defeats of big villains in these kind of arcs, but this time it's different since there's two big villains. I really think this is the kind of shift in directions that's needed to make things play out safely

#

Tbh fed, I was a bit frightened to see your response on this in particular as I know how much thoughts you have towards Big Mom's relevance extending past Wano, but glad you still enjoyed something so contradictory to your beliefs OMEGALUL

sturdy hawk
#

I'm open to any possibility regarding her if her conclusion is satisfying narratively tbh, so I'm fine if she is taken down now and then her connection to FMI/ Elbaf is tied up later

#

Also one other thing I forgot to mention, I really can't see Kidd and Law to be still more relevant later on, but perhaps there is a worst gen Free for all with Blackbeard or something, so Idk

dusky acorn
#

The Kaido flashback is still the main tool I see that can help add satisfaction to her defeat happening here.
Like, maybe seeing Rocks and his crew getting destroyed at the end of the FB, only to return to the present to see our so called return of Rocks suffer the same fate together, making history repeat

#

I think Law having ties to learning about the Will of D. basically slates him to stay relevant, as for Kid his Shanks connection is what helps him in that department

#

Also the fact that they're meant to be leading the new generation and all, hopefully that does mean their screentime keeps up

pastel summit
#

I feel like BM's relevance to FMI ended with 2 things. Destruction of the candy factory, and Jinbei leaving, and subsequently the sun pirates also leaving. They were her ties to that place. If she remained in the story, she COULD be important as a kind of revenge plot, just targetting FMI, but as it stands, I don't think there's some conclusion that needs to happen.

sturdy hawk
#

It's still her territory

dark palm
#

Doubt some sort of revenge plot would occur as I think that’d be too far removed from all the other shit happening in the story

#

So I don’t think the plot point really has a next stage

pastel summit
#

yeah but the fishmen have no allegiance to her, and she's gaining nothing from them. The only way in which BM is relevant to FMI would be if she tried to destroy it herself. She has no reason to protect it because the 2 reasons she even made it her territory are gone.

#

The more interesting thing would be whether Luffy would consider FMI his territory if he doesn't defeat BM himself.

dark palm
#

I think they might put the flag up anyways as it’ll carry a good bit of prestige and I’m sure he’d be happy to let them

#

But i don’t think he’d want to HAVE to protect them

pastel summit
#

since it's the only place he's actively tried to claim as his own. Like, does he have that element of pride that's like "well, I didn't do what I said I'd do, so it's not my territory"

#

but they'd still call him if they needed help and he'd still help.

sturdy hawk
#

I mean I don't see FMI being her territory as a "technicality", imo it's very well tied up to the very big ticking time bomb connected to Caribou

amber oar
pure raven
tulip briar
#

I have a theory on how BB was able to get Whitebeard’s devil fruit

As we saw in Punk Hazard, when SMILEY (the giant salamander) died we saw an apple turn into a devil fruit, and that devil fruit was the salamander zoan fruit

So maybe, when WB died, he had a fruit w him and let that fruit obtain WB’s devik fruit

Or he absorbed tge fruit somehow w his darkness fruit

Also i feel liek BB is the ancient weapon, Uranus. This is because in Im-sama’s room we see him with posters of Luffy, Shirahoshi, Vivi, and BB. What do shira and vivi have in common? Ancient weapons. Vivi has access and knowledge abt pluuton and shira is literally an ancient weapon. I think im-sama is interested with luffy since luffy is somehow related to the mysterious figure “Joyboy.” That leaves us with Black beard. Why would im-sama be interested in him? Because he’s uranus or has access to it.

Idk that’s my theory

pure raven
#

I was terrified that you were about to call vivi pluton

tulip briar
#

I wasn’t lmao

ancient vault
#

YOO so the panel qctually came true LuffyPog

tulip briar
pastel summit
#

vivi has no knowledge and a very loose connection to pluton.

tulip briar
#

But her father does

pastel summit
#

I think that poster was more about Alabasta's connection to the void century more than Vivi knowing about Pluton. All she knows is that it's a thing.

tulip briar
ancient vault
tulip briar
pastel summit
#

then why would it not be a picture of her father?

tulip briar
ancient vault
#

Teach seems to have taken inspiration from Rocks D. Xebec and Xebec's dream was to be the King of the World which is Im. I woulfnt be suprised if Im personally even feared Xebec

tulip briar
pure raven
ancient vault
pure raven
#

I was scared you would say rocks was imu

sly widget
#

imu has to be someone from that generation though, i'm so unbelievably curious

boreal mica
#

there is that immortality theory

tulip briar
#

Yeah like he might have some sort of imortality fruit

boreal mica
#

or he made some previous opop fruit user do the immortality operation on him

#

at least that's what the theory i've read said

tulip briar
boreal mica
#

yeah props to whoever thought of that

warm field
#

Imu is Gin

tulip briar
#

Wdym Gin

sly widget
#

never thought of that, might have a point. please someone give me a time capsule

warm field
#

From the baratie arc

sly widget
#

i also read a theory the other day saying shanks might be rocks' son and roger took him in after he and garp defeated rocks. something along the lines of "a son should not be punished for his father's sins".

tulip briar
tulip briar
sly widget
#

it would also make him a D. and who deserves a D. if not shanks? another one was that he's the brother of portgas d. rouge, also making him a D. and explaining how roger met him...

junior shoal
#

More general of theory of shanks and buggy from god's valley since they both were 1 at that time and it was said it has been long time since there was baby on the ship

tulip briar
sly widget
#

is rouge connected to the gorosei? didn't pick that up

#

they do look similar, kind of...

f49cd3cd243e587308093364a5f6e42f.jpg
tulip briar
worn heart
#

have we seen the colour of Xebec's hair?

tired osprey
#

nope, but for some reason I imagine its red

worn heart
#

yeah

tulip briar
tired osprey
tulip briar
worn heart
#

yes

ancient vault
#

I hope he got Locs

celest olive
#

Idk if this was already asked but how do u guys think putting conquerers haki into things will work

pure raven
#

Could probably use Shanks as an example?

#

He managed to crack parts of the Moby Dick by exhibiting something

sly widget
sullen sigil
#

Today I was watching the new episode of op and found this. I remeber that luffy saw a bunch of whales after leaving fishman island, the previous sentence says that another one will be born in a distant sea, I know that he is the mc and would have some priviledge but my point here is that.... Luffy could possible be able to control the sea kings!!!

unknown.png
celest olive
#

Also do you think ashura is coc as well

pure raven
#

@sullen sigil That's a reference to Shirahoshi

sullen sigil
#

it also says that even the whales are happy that the two rulers will meet one day

pure raven
#

The second ruler is anybody's guess

#

I don't think Luffy's demonstrated the ability to command anything. Momo has though 👀

small hornet
sullen sigil
#

personally I think that yes... He can do it

ancient vault
boreal mica
#

yeah i think the zunesha thing isn't related to the sea kings, I feel like it's more related to momo being a kozuki

zinc iris
#

so like luffy encouraging shirahoshi to do shit

zinc iris
ancient vault
zinc iris
ancient vault
#

Ohhh I see

#

That'd be an interesting way to adress Tokis past ngl

junior shoal
#

she is from void century ,it will be more about wano before,during and after that

boreal mica
#

wasnt zunesha roaming the seas before toki was born?

keen portal
#

A millennia before, if we are to believe what Momo says

boreal mica
#

and when was toki born? i think i remember doing the maths and thinking it was in the middle of the void century

keen portal
#

800

#

it would be near the very tail end of the void century

boreal mica
#

I see, so it has to be something about toki's ancestors if anything

#

or momo was wrong

junior shoal
sullen sigil
#

mostly it has to do something with toki

sand sail
#

Why 830?

#

lol

junior shoal
#

atleast, 800+time from her revealing it on whitebeard to current

boreal mica
#

ya so she's not directly related to whatever happened with zunesha, it had to be someone before

#

it could've been the previous tokitoki df user? maybe it's passed down their lineage

drowsy cosmos
#

I have a theory Kaido/Blackbeard is modeling his crew like Rocks did with powerful Devil Fruit users and Shank's crew is modeled after Roger's crew with non-Devil Fruit Buggy being an exception because it was an accident he ate the fruit.

#

Also I think while Big Mom is in Wano, Blackbeard is invading WCI for the Road Poneglyph

keen portal
#

well, Kaido didnt have his DF until the day rocks fell, and he was still in his crew before. Nor can we know for sure when WB got his Gura Gura, the earliest we know is his roger vs wb fight 26 years ago.

Nor is it possible for us to know for sure if none of the 30 or so members of the roger pirates had any DFs (discounting Buggy, as you said.)

unknown.png
drowsy cosmos
#

I mean maybe it was given out of pity because he was an apprentice and Big Mom still holds him to it

#

the WB DF we dont know though

keen portal
#

BB making a crew of DF users is apparent enough and fits his theme, so thats ok

Shanks making a crew on a rule that no DF users allowed would be a stupid rule to have considering how common DFs are in the grandline and the new world. Like if you liked a person, and he was strong enough, you wouldnt accept him into your crew just because he has a DF? Feels kinda stupid and antithetical to the point of forming a strong pirate crew in the first place

drowsy cosmos
#

Maybe there is a downside to DF's we dont know yet that has to with lineage factor Vegapunk was researching

keen portal
#

perhaps, but would shanks/roger be aware of said extra downside?

drowsy cosmos
#

that we dont know

#

we need Vegapunk to make an appearance for confimation

dry lynx
#

Since CoC shown in this arc is god tier Armament. I think Voice of all things is also CoC, but the observation variant. What do think about this?

kind gate
#

so you believe shirahoshi and momo have CoC?

rancid karma
#

Shirahoshi is an ancient weapon, so it would make sense... and Momo is the son of Oden

dry lynx
#

I think Rodger and Luffy have it and Shirahoshi and Momo could do it cause they are weapons

#

Also momo don of oden

kind gate
rancid karma
#

Doesn’t?

kind gate
#

yh I mean we haven't seen her communicate with anything other than the sea kings and her cry seems to be answered so I think that could be the cause of some separate connection, rather than it just being VoAT

rancid karma
#

This is accurate

dry lynx
#

So, what do you think about my theory, do you think it's possible?

#

CoC is a haki amplifier

rancid karma
#

If we are to believe variations of CoC exist, including VoaT (held by Momo, Roger, Luffy), would it make sense that Shirahoshi’s weapon is her variation of CoC?

#

Put into words, it sounds pretty disgusting to say Shirahoshi is a Conquerer

#

Especially considering the personality of Otohime

kind gate
#

Yh I don't think VoAT is an application of CoC

dry lynx
#

Like I mean apart from weapons could it be an application.

rancid karma
#

The implication here is all CoC stems out from the original knock-out CoC we’ve known so far

kind gate
#

nah I doubt VoAT is an application at all

rancid karma
#

And I could never see Shirahoshi manifesting that

dry lynx
#

Shirahoshi could be gifted cause she mermaid

#

To communicate with sea kings

rancid karma
#

Doubtful. Doesn’t sound reasonable

kind gate
#

Shirahosi hasn't shown the power to force her will into others
to just say she has CoC would lowkey be an asspull

#

She hasn't shown qualities of a leader either

dry lynx
#

I'm saying she can listen to sea kings naturally, but others need CoC to listen

rancid karma
#

I don’t think anyone else can listen to sea kings unless I’m forgetting something

dry lynx
#

Luffy, Rodger

#

can here, but am not sure of Oden

kind gate
#

With VoAT you can
yes Oden, Roger and luffy could

rancid karma
#

My b. I forgot that part

#

But were those ordinary sea kings? I thought they had something special

dry lynx
#

I think they were the intelligent ones

#

And knew Noah was important

rancid karma
#

Ah

#

Doesn’t the three-eye clan also have this ability?

kind gate
#

I can't answer this question

rancid karma
pseudo pewter
#

After Home many Years was Luffy born when Roger and Oden hear this Voice??

pure raven
pure raven
keen portal
kind gate
#

?
is it confirmed to be 'every 100 years'?

pure raven
keen portal
#

It's every few centuries isn't it

craggy bloom
#

Ye it’s very vague

pseudo pewter
rancid karma
#

I think I could sort of believe the idea that Momonosuke is Uranus—the weapon that’s controls ancient beasts such as Zunisha

#

The only major problems I see with it are:

Two ancient weapons would actually be people. That would make the search for weapons a bit awkward

This would means Imu doesn’t have possession of Uranus, which I believe he does

junior shoal
#

Uranus is god of sky, zunisha can't be ancient weapon

rancid karma
#

Momonosuke’s ability to control Zunisha works very similarly to Poseidon’s ability to control Sea Kings

#

Given that Momonosuke can talk to Zunisha, he should theoretically be able to talk to Sea Kings as well... but if he could, that would make him Poseidon

#

So the adjacent idea is if Momo was a similar weapon who can’t control Sea Kings

pure raven
rancid karma
junior shoal
#

Even if momo can talk to sea kings it won't change anything since they won't listen to his orders, but only the mermaid princess

pure raven
rancid karma
# pure raven That momo.cant be posedion

I’m not saying he would physically be Poseidon, I’m saying his power would be adjacent to the ancient weapon—it would diminish the power of the ancient weapon if he could simply use the same power without being an ancient weapon himself

junior shoal
#

What's your point?

pure raven
pure raven
drowsy cosmos
#

Laugh Tale is on the moon

pure raven
rancid karma
#

Still curious of his potential being able to speak to ancient beasts

boreal mica
# drowsy cosmos Laugh Tale is on the moon

one piece world is the moon, if you go back to the ohara flashback there is the globe of the world and we see that it has many moons. One of them has a moon of its own
i dont remember ever seeing more than one moon this entire time
UsoppSus

pure raven
rancid karma
pure raven
acoustic helm
#

According to sea kings whales would be happy when their sovereign meet, that day luffy promised shirahoshi to take her out one day

#

Momo isn't that sovereign then

#

And luffy meet her only a day before leaving, iirc

pure raven
#

The brothers

One_Piece_-_Chapter_967_-_15.jpg
narrow sentinel
#

Sanji will beat kaido changed my mind

ancient vault
#

Mfs say "change my mind" and think the worlds greatest debate is about to start

cyan berry
#

its me, im mfs

lyric dust
#

im mfs

zinc iris
#

I don't invite people to change my mind because I already know I'd win so I don't engage in pointless battles GWjiangoPepeGenius

#

it's like the first time bellamy attacked luffy

#

anyway it's true we were led to believe luffy was the person meant to meet shirahoshi but it might be someone else

tired osprey
#

18 million one piece volumes sold in italy, congratz

sturdy hawk
#

thanks

zinc iris
sturdy hawk
#

Someone tell the people in charge that their volumes are utter shite and maybe they will get more sales 😔

cyan berry
sturdy hawk
#

Right

zinc iris
mellow silo
#

Luffy is gonna split the sky with Kaido using gear 4

#

Or if not it will happen in his first attack against shanks

#

That’s my theory

last halo
#

I think Oda would leave the sky splitting attack for Luffy's first clash with Blackbeard

hidden prism
#

when the hell are we going to understand Aokiji's deal

#

thats a mysterious man

#

I feel like he is the character we have seen the most that we know the least about, outside of maybe Garp

zinc iris
mellow silo
ancient vault
mellow silo
#

That way shanks could be like oh so you’ve grown this much or whatever

hidden prism
#

Im not sure I agree that Luffy and Shanks will come to blows

#

even sportingly

#

But I do think BB is going to kill him

pure raven
#

i think now gear 5 will be boundman cladded with conquerer haki ,which will make him look like buddha form which hyogoro teased about.

zinc iris
#

still would be g4 with his new tricks

#

it's not like using the black haki on g2 fists was a new gear

fathom matrix
#

I see Gear 5th maybe being an awakening, where Luffy rubberises everything arond him, hell maybe even have the rubber around himself and become a "giant"

#

I see the conquerors clad as a upgrade or new move set

vale arrow
fathom matrix
#

Hell, since it's black energy, he might just call them something like "Gum-Gum: Black Hawk" or use other animals and weapons

vale arrow
#

Oh that would be cool

fathom matrix
vale arrow
#

Yeah I do think we will end up seeing his awakening but I think g5 will just be a better g4

fathom matrix
#

The thing is, it's hard to come up with an idea OF G5, that isn't just 1 of the forms taken, but redone slightly

vale arrow
#

Who knows oda might not even make a g5

fathom matrix
#

Like, Gear 2nd is blood pumping, gear 3rd is bone ballooning, with gear 4th being a transformation.

Like, how do we know we won't just get a new G4 variant at the very least?

#

and yeah, maybe Oda might not even do a G5

#

Like, Gear may not have to be body based, but different situational powers/techniques

vale arrow
#

And if he does unlock a new form Idk if it will be in wano I feel it might come later down the line like whatever the big wat is supposed to be will probably cause him to go 100%

#

And unlock a new variant of g4 and MAYBE g5

fathom matrix
#

so maybe rubber world COULD be another gear, but it's just not used to the system we're acustom to, so we kinda reject it a bit

hidden prism
#

Its hard to imagine his DF awakening not having similarities to Katakuri's... but then again, I still feel that the fact Shanks had the Gomu Gomu no mi specifically is not random chance

fathom matrix
#

I think it'd have more impact if it was JUST random, cause it's just a weak, random devil fruit, that luffy was able to make something great out of

hidden prism
#

I also think that we are going to see more and more of a shift to Luffy's personal non DF power being displayed, because I think it will contrast BB's growing DF demigod status

#

like Luffy is ultimately stronger of a man than him, rather than being able to out-power him

fathom matrix
#

Black Beard steals, lies and manipulates his way up, Luffy actually works hard

#

That's another contrast

gilded wagon
#

I don’t think we’re getting another gear form, luffy has yet to use snakeman in wano. I believe that snakeman with conquerors haki will have Dragon themed attacks

zinc iris
#

komodo bazooka

tired osprey
#

give Luffy more monkey energy

#

he doesnt need tiger form or dragon energy, all he needs is more monke

#

as for the thematical / symbolic purpose, monkey king defeated hundreds of demons and dragons, king kong fought godzilla, and now we get luffy kicking kaido's ass

gilded wagon
#

I would love that honestly

mellow silo
#

I still don’t know about Luffy turning everything into rubber, although I like that gravity theory that was thrown around, an interesting concept especially against bb devil fruit

tired osprey
#

If Luffys awakening would be, objects he touches can be rubberized while he touches it, it can make for some pretty fun attacks, he could just the ground as a trampoline, he could use the air to extend his elasticity and produce more dynamic force, basically using his environments to create more powerful techniques

#

something like this

unknown.png
drowsy cosmos
#

I think Luffy's awakening will occur vs BB its the perfect counter to earthquakes just rubber absorb the impact

tired osprey
#

oof good idea, move all that force from the earthquakes into luffys own body and deliver an earthquake powered punch

pure raven
#

I have theory why shanks had the gomu gomu ní i think he wants to give straw hat and the gomu gomu ní to ace i think. Gomu gomu ní have connection with one piece

dusk mirage
#

I feel like CoC being confirmed to be able to be into attacks with chapter 1010, Luffy might not even need awakening to beat Kaido

#

Especially when you consider his CoC potential, his attack damage gonna go through the roof now

#

What I’m curious about now is where Shanks CoC potential compares

amber oar
#

if Luffy is going to awaken his DF, that is reserved for later, BB or whatever

This arc Luffy needed to break the entry barrier to defy the Emperors. That is, it seems, the ability to imbue CoC into attacks

dusk mirage
#

I mean Oda could still have him awaken his devil fruit here, but it doesn’t seem necessary now

ancient vault
dusk mirage
#

Considering Shanks haki is so strong that his haki be leaking and breaking shit/knocking peeps out, makes you wonder between him and Luffy whose CoC haki is stronger lol

pure raven
#

I taught shanks showing how strong he is

#

yeah shanks did that to establish his presence on an enemy ship, not leaking or anythin

#

In the next elbaf arc usopp is the main lead i think

dusk mirage
#

Mmm, you right, it could just be to establish presence

pure raven
#

whos even gonna be the antag of elbaf

#

Because he's the most wanted to go to elbaf

slate zodiac
dusk mirage
#

Hard to say what arc to do next after this lol

slate zodiac
pure raven
#

strawhats gonna get their ass handed to them then lol

dusk mirage
#

By who? Lol

pure raven
#

bluffy said davy back fight w red hairs

dusk mirage
#

I see zero chance of a fight between red hairs and the straw hats right now

pure raven
#

Who's the bb shooter

grizzled fog
#

You mean Van Augur?

dusk mirage
#

Van Augur

pure raven
#

I think usopp vs BB shooter

dusk mirage
#

The next big fight after this I feel would be between the Black bard pirates or WG

#

I’m curious if they will visit that floating island that dragged up Beges ship when he first entered the new world

#

Because that island is heavily based of Gulivers Travels and the island of Astrologist

grizzled fog
#

I’m fairly certain Elbaf is next

grizzled fog
pure raven
#

they gonna go there after laugh tale, brook still gotta go to laboon

slate zodiac
#

Van augur vs Usopp would be legendary cuz we don’t see that many 1 on 1 sniper fights

dusk mirage
#

Also, it’s a floating island, so it’s constantly moving

pure raven
#

tuhrue

dusk mirage
#

But if they wanted to add a Astrologist to the crew it would be a prime opportunity to do so lol

#

I’m not counting that in Namis wheel house either lol

amber oar
pale mountain
dusk mirage
amber oar
pale mountain
pure raven
#

Or some evil @dusk mirage

#

I want see luffy grand fleet fights bb

#

How do people recognize the power of a fruit before eating it? Just color?

olive pewter
dusky acorn
#

Most people don't actually know what power a devil fruit holds before eating, unless they read that book yeah, like Sanji and Blackbeard did

#

There's also more special cases like Law I suppose who knew exactly what he was getting, but not many fruits are quite like the ope-ope in worldwide acclaim

lunar shell
#

yeah

drowsy cosmos
#

Who wants to bet that BB is invading WCI for the Road poneglyph now

dusky acorn
#

I could find Blackbeard invading Totland more likely if Big Mom's to be taken down this arc, but it still doesn't match what he said before heading out of Hachinosu Island. He highlighted the marines

ember trench
#

Not me cause I’d lose

drowsy cosmos
#

It seems to be an easy steal for BB. Katakuri would get rolled by BB

fathom matrix
#

Here's a good question, if the Yami Yami No Mi is such a powerful fruit, why do you think the navy hasn't tried to look for it and secure the power? Cause it's been started to be documented.

Either, Black Beard was told by someone "There's this one fruit called the yami yami no mi, if you want to rule the world, you need this fruit, this is what it looks like, this isn't in any devil fruit encyclopedia, make sure that's the first fruit you eat"

#

Or it was just so hard to find and the navy's so busy, they didn't have the time, effort or necessity to get it

true flame
#

Well WB's crew attained it, so clearly they had competition

drowsy cosmos
#

BB is built different so his origins might have to do with him knowing what the Yami Yami no mi is

fathom matrix
#

I think Shiki inspired him

sand sail
#

He read about it in the devil fruit book

fathom matrix
#

Well, he was inpired by the legend of rocks, but shiki told it to him, to get inspired, is the idea I have

drowsy cosmos
#

I wonder if BB is as proficient using Gura Gura no mi as WB now

fathom matrix
#

probably not

#

I think he's efficient at it, but not to the same level

drowsy cosmos
#

BB is probably Rock's son

fathom matrix
#

Not a fan of that idea. It's possible, but I'm iffy on it

drowsy cosmos
#

It would be a sadistic parallel Roger making Rock's ultimately die and BB making Ace die

dusky acorn
#

The Yami-Yami being labelled the most dangerous fruit in the history of devil fruit powers is interesting. It gives insight on how it was likely previously wielded by some pretty vicious people who did some good devastation in their time with it. I'd probably say other pirates were the past wielders of the power which is why the navy never were able to get it

fathom matrix
#

If it is well known

lunar shell
#

well you can bring things up to an other dimension, so its quite dangerous indeed

fathom matrix
#

I am surprised that the marines didn't try and look for that user who they documented that information from, and gain the power for themselves.

#

or they were like "if you die, we're taking that power, with extra precautions and back ups"

drowsy cosmos
#

that seems like a job for Cipher Pol not the Marines

fathom matrix
#

Making sure any pirate, god forbid any yonko take it. And yeah, I see CP taking on that mission

drowsy cosmos
#

If Momo does have an artificial Kaido's DF does that mean the World Government have a stockpile of other overpowered DF's

kind gate
drowsy cosmos
#

I think Kaido's backstory is going to give us answers

dusky acorn
#

A recent thought I had that I don't see talked much, is how about Rocks having had Kaido's Uo-Uo fruit originally?

#

The timing of when Kaido got his fruit is pretty coincidental, it was literally the day Rocks fell

kind gate
#

hmmmm

drowsy cosmos
#

was it the days Rock's died or their group disbanded?

dusky acorn
#

So maybe Big Mom caught the fruit respawn and gave it to Kaido, if Rocks had it. If not Rocks himself, maybe some other notorious crew member of theirs who had it and died that day

drowsy cosmos
#

Fell into ruin doesnt necessarily mean he died

dusky acorn
#

That is exactly when Rocks died though, it was cordial to the God Valley incident

olive pewter
#

i think maybe big mom was saving it for an ally, since she already had soul-soul fruit and she might have given it to kaido cause she felt bad for the young guy being all alone with no crew and no devil fruit

drowsy cosmos
#

she took pity on Kaido and he hates it

kind gate
olive pewter
pure raven
#

People leave Wano

olive pewter
#

i mean like, we know kaido killed higarashi around oden's execution, next known user is many years later with bon clay, people dont leave wano with barrels of fruits that only get eaten 10-20 years later

dusky acorn
#

People leaving Wano is done illegally and doesn;t happen often. The fruits couldn't have left by Kozaburo's doing either since he departed before they died.

Fruits respawning is a known phenomenon, it just comes down to how related to proximity is it. I feel like proximity places a factor to some degree at least, or else SMILEY's Axolotl fruit actually won the literally of one in billions by respaning right on Punk Hazard. We're just missing certain specifics for it

#

Also one more thing, if Big Mom has the Fish fruit that entire time, why wait all the way up to God Valley to finally give it to him?

#

Seems more to me like she just got it that day

sand sail
#

shimon, I like that theory

#

I'm on board with it

dusky acorn
#

Ay, nice. Needs some patchwork but it's a cool thesis for now

sand sail
#

I dunno about the details, but I'd love if Xebec had it and that's why Roger and Garp needed to work together against him

olive pewter
#

saving fruits for other people to eat isnt necessarily without precedent, big mom had kids at that time, she might have wanted to give it to one of her kids when they grew up

sand sail
#

Maybe he's even one of the first modern users of the conqueror's infused techniques?

#

And that's how the people on the crew managed to learn it, from seeing him do it?

#

Bit more of a stretch, but if Xebec is like 80% of the reason Kaido became a monster, it'd devalue him so well

#

In a justified way

dusky acorn
#

Oh I hadn't even thought about Rocks Conqeurors, he's definitely gonna be a user of it. Probably going to see more of that advanced application of it during Kaido's FB, that's a cool idea

#

The way Kaido projected how he feels about this specific power is interesting too, def seems like something he picked up on from Rocks or something

unknown.png
grizzled fog
#

Maybe there was a marine with a fish fruit? KizaruPog or a CD? Or even a fellow rocks pirate?

olive pewter
#

what is CD?

grizzled fog
#

Celestial Dragon

pure raven
#

I'm interested in the fire skull design on Xebec's ship. My headcanon is that he wielded the Mera Mera and that explains Teach's obsession with the fruit.

Rocks.png
grizzled fog
#

Here’s a thought

pure raven
#

Rocks could very well have wielded both the Mera Mera and Yami Yami

grizzled fog
#

Doesn’t that skull look somewhat similar at least to the Onigashima skull?

#

Maybe kaido had Onigashima designed after some element of the original crew, maybe they had an icon or figurehead like that

olive pewter
#

im pretty sure the skull was not built by kaido, only the structure inside

pure raven
#

Rocks Pirates could've had an ancient giant descendant in their crew

grizzled fog
#

I’m on board with the idea that it was a mountain that was designed to look like a skull

amber oar
olive pewter
amber oar
#

Let's not forget logias are rare and there are like a total of 11 known so far

pure raven
#

Just seemed strange that Teach wanted to recruit Ace after betraying him and somehow ends up going after Ace's fruit after a timeskip

#

All very fair points you've made though, Jugol

amber oar
#

Pirates invite each other in an ironic tone to taunt all the time. Shanks inviting Marco, BB inviting Bonney, etc

#

it's not a straight up invitation, it's mere taunting

The fact is that BB's target wasn't even Ace, but Luffy. Originally it was any 100m bounty, but he took an interest in Luffy after Jaya. It was Ace who was chasing Teach for killing Thatch, which led to BB deciding to ditch Luffy and use Ace instead for his plan

olive pewter
#

also blackbeard invited moria to join crew even after killing absalom right?, kinda similar to inviting ace after killing thatch, even allowed aokiji as an ally, i think he just wants strong people near him, doesnt care about how they go together

past bluff
#

what do yall think the straw hat bounties will be like after wano?

fleet patio
#

No early spoilers this week?

fleet patio
pure raven
#

After this arc luffy will probley be one of the yonkous

sand sail
#

Break week

fleet patio
#

FUCKEN ODA PIECE OF SHIT SLOTH

#

IMA GO TO HIS HOUSE AND FORCE HIM TO WORK

sand sail
#

This is more for theory discussion

pure raven
#

Does shanks actualy have a devilfruit or is he just the best in using kings haki?

fleet patio
pure raven
#

But why is he so op then

fleet patio
#

Hes built different

#

I might not be as op as you think he is.

sturdy hawk
#

Zoro's Conqueror Haki

In the latest chapter (1010) we see Zoro use Conqueror's Haki as a last ditch attack, however, I think that Haki doesn't come for him, but rather a promise he made long ago.

During Dressrosa, we were told through a mihawk flashback that you can imbue Armament haki within your sword to make it become black. Through some recontextualization of Hyogoro's teachings and via Luffy's new tactical understanding, we figure out that not only can Armament be imbued, but also Conqueror's.

I believe that Zoro's Conqueror's haki comes from the blade he inherited from Kuina, who (even if not purposefully) imbued it.

This new piece of info would add a lot to kuina's sudden death and show off that her strenght was always there, but denied by other people due to her gender. Not only that, but it would serve to explore Zoro's bond with her and his promise to her, and now fighting for her name as well.

This would also add a reason to Zoro's denial of his Conqueror's haki.

#

.

I made it on the spot once i got the idea but I had to share it, I think it's great, hope you like it :NamiPray:

brisk mirage
#

Minor prediction, as Kaido's fangs and horns are a prominent part of his design, Luffy will shatter one of them with a major attack sometime soon.

dark palm
#

I don’t like that theory fed

#

The idea of haki being able to carry over from prior owners is weird

dusky acorn
#

So going by this theory, Kuina was a dormant Conqeurors user the whole time, and only now has Zoro managed to draw out the full power of Wado which features that? I've seen similar thoughts to this, but with Enma/Oden. I still think the most plausible thing to go with is what Kaido plainly said though, that Zoro alone is the conqueror user, and the energy didn't come from any of his blades.

#

But well, I'm open for any sort of speciality to Wado, since right now it's Zoro's only blade which doesn't really have much more to it by itself

dark palm
#

In Enma’s case, it seems to be more Kaido detecting a large amount of haki rather than Oden’s in particular, and assigning that to him due to prior association

weary cliff
#

Even supposing the haki wasn't Zoro's, it would be much more likely to come from Enma than Wado. We got the close up panel of Enma just before the attack for some reason, and we know that Enma specifically has a special relationship with haki

sturdy hawk
#

The thing is that Big Mom did point at the sword, so it still makes sense that it's its source imo

Also, I made this theory more from a character standpoint and what it would add to Zoro's character while trying to explain how logistically it could be possible, so if you find any plotholes in it that's why

#

Oh and btw, Kuina's CoC could possibly come from her lineage logistically, but I didn't want to include that in the theory because I'm not a big fan of the option, but I guess it's there

sturdy hawk
waxen light
boreal storm
kind gate
#

josh but he didn't

fathom matrix
#

Pirates are always hunting for treasure, where as Marines have multiple duties, tasks, posts, orders, etc

#

Sorry wrong @

#

I meant that for @grizzled fog

grizzled fog
#

?

dark palm
#

Been thinking about an avenue to let Momo join the crew

sand sail
#

Would Momo fit on the crew? He doesn't really wanna do much world seeing does he?

dark palm
#

Only viable one is
-Robin gets captured by Blackbeard
-Hitetsu is alive and is able to pass down the method
-Momo goes with them

#

Nah, I don’t like the theory outside of this

#

But a lot of people believe in it, so

sand sail
#

Ehh, I dunno about that one. I could see Tama joining before Momo gets on

dark palm
#

I mean, I agree

#

Which is why I tried to think about a way he’d basically be forced to go with them

kind gate
#

blackbeard captures robin?

dark palm
#

And with all these hints towards Robin being such a hot commodity it would almost be a wasted opportunity at this point to not have her get kidnapped by someone

kind gate
#

nah, I don't see robin getting captured again

ember trench
#

Will probably happen somehow

#

Though I don’t think it happens in Wano

kind gate
#

not like its unlikely because of possibility but like idk if Oda does the same thing again

sand sail
#

Robin being actually captured would up the stakes again, and may be the only thing that can

ember trench
#

It’s not really the same thing again

sand sail
#

We're not getting much bigger than two Emperors without just ending the series at that point

dark palm
#

Yeah it’s not the same thing at all

kind gate
#

hmmm maybe
but that depends on if bb can't already read poneglyphs somehow

sand sail
#

A member of the crew getting nabbed would be a nice escalation from that without going too hard, and gives Robin a good bit of time to shine again as a historian

ember trench
#

No reason to assume he can

dark palm
#

The only hints we have are like

#

SBS entries lol

kind gate
#

yh

pure raven
#

The only way Robin gets taken hostage is if the strongest Strawhat fighters are exhausted at the end of Wano and somebody (possibly Teach) uses that opportune moment to snatch her away

ember trench
#

I mean no there are a lot of ways she could be taken

kind gate
#

prolly not teach but maybe devon

pure raven
#

Luffy's gonna be a planet buster soon and he won't let Robin go without a fight

ember trench
#

Also think Teach will take their Poneglyph rubbings or the map they make

kind gate
#

she's tricked into thinking she's following franky or something

ember trench
#

Planet buster lol whew boy

kind gate
ember trench
#

It’s how he operates. He won’t go after all the Poneglyphs individually when they’re all in one convenient place

kind gate
#

true

#

but I think in another arc or something because it seems teach has something else he's looking for
could the wg want pudding?
could teach be going after her?

ember trench
#

Or he will follow them to Laugh Tale with a Vivre card

dark palm
#

I could see Devon pulling some shit

pure raven
dark palm
#

And grabbing them

ember trench
#

I don’t think Pudding can read Poneglyphs

kind gate
#

she has the potential to tho right?

dark palm
#

Three eyed tribe members can activate VOAT, which doesn’t allow you to

pure raven
#

The vivre card idea has floated around for a while and I love it. Teach really could just sneak up in there and steal the glory ZoroNut

dark palm
#

Which had been established even after Oda revealed Oden was the one reading the poneglyphs

#

So we know Big Mom was just in correct, which is cool because Oden would be a mystery to everyone else anyways

kind gate
#

oh yh my bad
doesn't that mean it would be weird for VoAT to be linked to obs

ember trench
#

And even if she could I don’t see her ever leaving Tottoland

#

Feel like Pudding’s role is done

kind gate
#

yh probably

ember trench
#

Now to go kill zombies and listen to Spotify

kind gate
#

lol aii
see ya

dark palm
#

Her role is not done

#

She’ll marry sanji ;)

kind gate
#

sanji can't get married he's a play boy simp
I don't know how

#

I would delete this

unique kestrel
#

why...ill stand by it

dark palm
#

Keep theories serious in here

unique kestrel
#

aight fine my bad

zinc iris
olive quail
#

Yeah proly

dark palm
shadow pike
#

Do you guys think Scopper Gaban is still alive?

#

The old bald man smoking with glasses looks a lot like him

amber oar
shadow pike
#

@amber oar completely missed that, i just remember what he looked like but not what he said

amber oar
#

he said something like the quicker the execution the better for everyone

#

that said, that guy's design is oddly specific and unique. But nah, that's not Gaban

shadow pike
#

@amber oar did roger's crew know he had a son? With none of the roger pirates (including buggy) trying to go save him makes me wonder if he kept it a secret even from them

#

may be completely wrong in case rayleigh mentioned it (my memory is horrible)

amber oar
#

Ace was born long after the crew disbanded, but IIRC Sengoku spilled the beans quite early in the arc

shadow pike
#

ah yeah and just saw he was smilling after the war, not him

pure raven
#

I think maybe shanks knew he was Rogers son, since he went out of his way to get whitebeard to get ace back from going after teach and unless he cared cause of luffy

pale mountain
pure raven
#

Oda said that one piece could end in 4 years

So on that basis around 200 chaps will come out and

We can assime that wano will get 20 to 30 more chaps

Then lodster island

Then sabo at revire

Blackbeard fight

Akainu fight

Raftel

Im fight

Fishman island destroy

Can we assume that all of these or most of this will be like a single arc similar to marineford and span for last 150 chaps? And a huge war will happen involving all the parties?

Maybe it could possibly happen aftet luffy reaches raftel ?

P.s sorry for posting this here . Just wantrd some opinions

placid jay
#

They will also visit Elbaf probably

teal bay
#

he said 5 yrs ig

nocturne iron
#

Robin isn't gonna get taken hostage

#

I think any credible theory of what will happen has to factor that One Piece probably has 200-250 chapters left.

thick halo
#

Was it ambiguous that it will end in 5. Years or that OP will be revealed in 5 years?

nocturne iron
#

IT has been said repeatedly. The Ohara dude (top OP fansite) has a good break down of everything Oda has said over the last 10 years and he has been consistent about One Piece Ending around 2024-2025

#

People keep saying that oh he extended it before, but the reality is they are confused. Oda once very early on in an interview said that he had originally thought OP would be 5 years, but that was like very early on, when he already realized it would take longer than 5 years

#

He has been consistent over the last 10 years around when he thinks it will end. This arc is supposed to mark 80 percent done.

thick halo
#

I heard there may have been a hedge where in 5 years OP will be revealed and the greatest war in op history would begin

nocturne iron
#

Well its obvious that whenever Luffy reaches raftel, they will learn the real history and then topple the world government

pure raven
#

And the w9rld govt and straw haat fightz

weak arrow
#

Just gotta remember that wano just hit its 100th chapter and probably at least has 20 more, and that’s 3 years spent on just 1 arc.

nocturne iron
#

that seems to be the long standing setup. So that is the great war. My read on it that based on what we know from Oden's arc and is that when Roger reached laughtale, they realized they were too soon to fulfill Joyboy's promise and that the next generation would do it (which is the current timeline). My guess is that luffy will learn the history and blow up fishman island to fulfill Joyboy's prophecy to poseidon, knowing that fishman island is directly below the holyland

nocturne iron
#

Zou and WCI being like 75 chapters total and then one epic arc. Also you have to factor that the actual arc for marineford isn't really htat long. Its Amazon Lily into Imel Down into Marineford that makes it long

#

So its perfectly feasible that Oda can tie this all together in one more major saga of 3 arcs.

weak arrow
#

There’s at least 3, maybe 4 arcs where 1 will probably be of great length

#

So I can mostly agree

#

4th poneglyph, Blackbeard and shanks involvement, and then everything after

pure raven
#

Any info or theorh where 4th road poneglyph could be?

nocturne iron
#

As a longtime reader of manga (1998) the thing that differentiates Oda from every other writer in long running Shonen is he actually has the ending laid out. Shonen Jump's structure makes it very difficult for authors to commit to that kind of story, because they don't know if their manga will be popular enough to get continued serialization early on. Oda clearly had a n overall story outline before he started. If you read East Blue Saga, you'll see one piece had many of its core pieces laid out. Fishman will be a central theme, there would be 7 Shichibukai, 4 Emperors, Marines, there would be a sky island etc. Obviously details changed as the story went along, but thats why one piece actually is so tightly constructed. For that reason I don't see Oda leaving any plot holes like other shonen series. Which also lead me to believe if he plans to stick to his time line of say max of 300 chapters (i.e. extends it by 1-2 years), he isn't going to introduce new plot points or get distracted.

#

Thats why I also am very skeptical of anymore crew mates. Oda takes his time to fleshout all of the SH and give them an arc, the present timeline does not give them time for that. The only candidate for crew mate under the assumption of no more character arcs is Traflagar Law, but most people object to that.

weak arrow
pure raven
#

Thats why i like oda and op

Many stories after going 300 400 +chaps start breaking and the entire plot feels bland but oda still kept fan glued with the main story only

pure raven
nocturne iron
# pure raven Any info or theorh where 4th road poneglyph could be?

The theory I am most sympathetic to is that Shanks already has it and is basically guarding it. Its not my theory, but it goes something like this. So Roger's crew discovered the true history. It was repeatedly said that they were too early (Rayleigh said it, Roger confirmed it) to do anything about it and it would be the next generation. Roger who knew he was going to die, intentionally turned himself in just to make a spectacle, that would instigate a new generation of pirate's to reach laughtale where One Piece is located. With the idea that whoever reached it would learn the actual history and be the second coming of Joy Boy. Whitebeard and Shanks both knew history from Roger and was largely trying to fulfil Roger's goals. Shanks bet Luffy would be the next coming of Joy Boy, based on something he said. Whitebeard was raising ace, as stated in marineford. Whitebeard also indicates in marineford that finding of one piece (i.e. learning the true history) will be the trigger for the next great war and that is what the marines fear. Its probably why some of the upper echeleon of the marines have gone along with preserving the existing status quo (to prevent that war).

#

I'm not the type of person to make posts where I post lots of pics and clips from manga. But most of the reason I have settled on this is that I recently reread the manga, that the arcs that seem to really point to this is Oden's flashback and Marineford (particularly) white beard's death.

#

I also think fishman island plays some central role to the true history. To me it is symbolizing the lost city of atlantis

#

I think there might have been a time where fishman island may have been not underwatter

errant nova
#

Rewatching Zou and just putting together the parallel between Momo being scared, holed up in a room alone in his dragon from because he feels uncomfortable there and oden having that same feeling, like he was being watched

little kelp
#

Imagine if Kidd has the same conclusion Luffy got on advanced Conquerors Haki

#

he might have a chance against Big Mom

pastel sinew
errant nova
nocturne iron
#

My new theory is that pandaman is actually a mink

#

dun dun dun

dusky acorn
#

His torso doesn't have fur, so he's more like a random oddity of the OP world.

#

That being said, it's best not to speculate in here on characters like Pandaman whose mere existence in-manga itself is a meme.

dusky acorn
#

It sorta fits with how his Conqeurors is the main haki category that's been built up, but one weird thing is how he coincidentally left the Kaido fight right as Luffy was going to showcase the haki himself.
Kid getting a power-up is still inevitable at this point, either through haki or devil fruit. Rotten alone won't be enough for Big Mom, and he even went on to say in 1008 his attacks don't feel like they're doing anything. He's gotta try something new

urban ledge
pure raven
urban ledge
true flame
#

Speaking of which, do any of you have theories as to why so few people have been to lodestar?

acoustic helm
#

And normal weather conditions which is another challenge

keen portal
#

As of now we only have Roger's word for it, that he's been the only one in 800 years to reach Lodestar and we don't know why no one else at least made it to the end of the grand line.

Is there an attendance sheet at Lodestar? Is there some people living there that commented on Roger being the first person they've seen in 800 years? We don't know for sure how Roger would know he's been the only one.

And why would he be the only one? Extra rough seas?

hushed plover
#

here's my theory: blackbeard removes kaido's fruit after kaido is dead but momo eats it away from him, everyone expects an explosion but since momo's fruit is derived from kaido's it doesn't cause a problem instead it completes his fruit

grim sleet
#

Here’s my theory: Lodestar, last island the log pose leads to has some connection to Nami. Symbolism Oda uses is subtle, but there. (A lodestar is a star that is used to guide the course of a ship.) I think we’ll get to know about Nami’s family. Only crew members whose parents haven’t been revealed are the original 3, not including dragon. So eventually we’ll find out about nami and zoro’s parents/background.

snow herald
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Abdul, that sounds very unlikely.

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We already know her family, bellemere and nojiko

true flame
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I think it would be a little weird if Nami got a new family as well

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but lowkey that happened with Sanji in WCI so idk

strong chasm
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Sanji's backstory was somewhat foreshadowed throughout One Piece

dusky acorn
# grim sleet Here’s my theory: Lodestar, last island the log pose leads to has some connectio...

Lodestar, last island the log pose leads to has some connection to Nami
Nami's original lineage from the East Blue having ties to the last log pose island of the New World is an enormous difference in seas, and would need a lot of explaining like Kuina's family had.
I think we’ll get to know about Nami’s family. Only crew members whose parents haven’t been revealed are the original 3, not including dragon. So eventually we’ll find out about nami and zoro’s parents/background.
Think back to every Straw Hat who has had their familial guardians revealed. Sanji/Sora/Judge, Usopp/Banchina, Robin/Olivia and her brother, Luffy/Garp, Chopper and his reindeers. Each of these characters were old enough as kids to have had a connection with their family in some shape or form. For Nami, she was picked up as a baby. There's no point in connecting her to people she wouldn't have ever even known about.
At that point, it's better off to write some characters who fill this same niche of having dropped off Nami in the East from Loadstar, but discarding the blood relation entirely, as it's practically useless for her situation. Though in the best case scenario, this doesn't happen entirely

grim sleet
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Oda makes it a point to show how skilled Nami is. Still think there’s something that explains why she’s a genius.

hidden prism
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The fact that Oden says he needs to prepare Wano for the return of Joyboy after hearing Roger (pre laugh tale) talk about how he wishes he lived in the same era as Joyboy is perplexing to me

pastel summit
tiny forum
grim sleet
hidden prism
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I don't think so, could be wrong... but I think Nami is just talented and not genetically exceptional for some lore reason

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I would personally prefer if we didn't get a "Bardock" dumped onto us

grim sleet
pure raven
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i think shanks evil because evil people are mostly cool and shanks cool

urban ledge
keen portal
urban ledge
keen portal
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And unless they went to Lodestar, they would have had no idea what the Red Poneglyph is about.

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Its only after Roger got to laugh tale that BM and Kaido would have made the red poneglyph connection to Laugh Tale

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And that still doesnt explain what I said.

zinc iris
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considering that lodestar has a name, it was not that unknown

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also nothing forbids that even if roger was the first in a long time, other people got there after him

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especially those that today are the yonko definitely have the power to reach that point as it's just a matter of following the log pose

pastel summit
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I find it unbelievable no one was able to follow the log pose completely until Roger. I'm sure he was just gassing himself up, or it had just been a while so he wasn't aware that someone before him made it there. idk.

hidden prism
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why couldn't CP9 use haki lol

zinc iris
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and the addition wasn't totally seamless

hidden prism
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is that confirmed?

zinc iris
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those things are rarely confirmed

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you can just make an educated guess

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haki has the hallmarks of a later addition

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that per se isn't a problem making an addition and the haki system itself is not that bad, but can easily lead to these questions like "why didn't thing come up when it totally should have"

dark palm
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Even if it’s DB

hidden prism
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I was just making a comparison geeze

zinc iris
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CP0 is likely a later addition (because of course we needed a stronger CP after the poer level of the world made the CP9 obsolete) that however doesn't raise questions on a meta level

hidden prism
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it was totally relevant, in a sentence about one piece

zinc iris
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as it was very plausible they existed all along

hidden prism
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trigger happy modding over here

dark palm
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We don’t allow other series references in any capacity :/ you don’t have to like the rules

zinc iris
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however that a unit trained since they were babies in the most advanced martial arts by the WG (that has a haki requirement for vice admirals) wasn't taught haki is a very hard sell

hidden prism
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yeah its the most glaring chin scratcher if haki was retcon, which as you've explained seems likely

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there are other older pieces that fit really well, like Shanks dispersing sea king with his stare

zinc iris
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vivre cards try to salvage this by instead claiming they actually did have haki all along, but this leads to unavoidable discrepancies with how W7+EL actually went down

dark palm
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Nah that was corrected

zinc iris
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like luffy being immune to shigan because it was a blunt attack until luccy used it with his leopard claws

dark palm
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It’s now “they trained haki over the timeskip and strengthend their rokushiki as a result”

zinc iris
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if the cp9 actually had haki like the vivre cards claimed he should have gone down back then

hidden prism
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yeah its a huge issue because not only would cp9 be Haki competent, they should theoretically be quite masterful

zinc iris
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however that they didn't have haki after 20 years of training under the wg is a signal that haki changed

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because there are signs in EL itself that oda wanted haki to exist already with garp punching luffy, but my guess is that it was meant to be much much harder to attain, and then the entry requirements were severely lowered from marineford onwards

dark palm
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He first mentioned it in Jaya

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Blackbeard talked about Luffy’s “haki”

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Let’s just say learning haki during the training process would get in the way of their 6 powers mastery. Better to assume a justification rather than accept it’s a retcon for discussion’s sake

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But yeah, haki definitely changed over the years

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I’d say continuity has sorta ironed out though and nothing feels very egregious

hidden prism
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I was justifying it in my mind that their job was more geared towards spying and assassination rather than brute force, but that doesn't really add up when you consider Lucci's backstory

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Its such a hard thing for me to wrestle with because generally speaking, One Piece has been uncharacteristically consistent for the genre - unlike other series whose examples I won't dare utter

zinc iris
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well to perform assassination in the OP world you have to be a very proficient fighter

hidden prism
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I suppose that follows

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I was more considering the knife in the dark sort of assassination

zinc iris
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to stab a logia you either need at least basic armament or a seastone knife

dark palm
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I doubt they’d send CP-9 out against a logia anyways

hidden prism
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but "iron body" doesn't make sense in a world with busoshoku haki

dark palm
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And that facet of armament is overrated

zinc iris
dark palm
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Tekkai was full body always as well, and Jabra for example could move around in it

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It’s cool that the six powers got buffed by zoan forms

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And it was really cool that Lucci could change his hybrid through the use of the six powers

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I hope that’s somehow revisited

hidden prism
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I think with Lucci and Kaku still hanging around we are going to get more of that stuff

zinc iris
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while Oda is remarkable in his going back, OP still suffers from "so last season" when it comes to powers and useful items

dark palm
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Is that a trope name entry -_-

zinc iris
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rokushiki almost disappeared except the sometimes a shigan or geppo

zinc iris
dark palm
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Sanji learning rankyuu (or whatever) was always a popular theory

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But he got geppo instead

zinc iris
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we already have zoro with the cannon thing

hidden prism
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Geppo has stayed pretty relevant, not the six powers skill I was assuming would stick around after getting through enies lobby for the first time

dark palm
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The raid suit makes it even better which is cool

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Lets him turn on a dime midair

shell drum
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rukougan with enhanced haoshoku

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incredibly hard to land one though

hidden prism
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oh yeah, Koby might still bring them in too

zinc iris
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when was the last time he used soru

dark palm
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Marineford

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So one of the last two times we’ve actually seen him

hidden prism
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Oda might have been saved from too many retcons by being so evasive with so many of his characters

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now that the power structure of haki etc. has been more firmly solidified guys like Shanks and Garp can have had it all along pretty easily

dark palm
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Retcons aren’t inherently bad anyways

hidden prism
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I agree, it can just be offensive in the context of One Piece being such a long and generally consistent story

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because we want to believe (generally justifiably) that every mysterious detail has a purpose

dark palm
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And we still can, if it’s a dead end we won’t know until the conclusion.

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Random shit like Lola’s mom’s vivre card get brought up hundreds of chapters later, so

tired osprey
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i dont believe asura and coc is a retcon like some claim, maybe the haki concept changed a bit from what oda had in mind back then and the only haki that could fit with what asura is, is the next level of CoC, but he couldnt put the two together until we see the next level of coc, which was last chapter, and ofc, zoro was most likely always meant to have coc

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just speaking of retcons

hidden prism
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we were discussing earlier how one of the biggest glaring issues with the existence and explanation we now accept of haki, is that CP9 seemingly didn't have it in enies lobby

tired osprey
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some people also say tama was retconned into knowing ace back then, but i also doubt it

dark palm
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That one isn’t really a retcon

tired osprey
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yamato's vivre card to ace though, that feels retconned

dark palm
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Also not really a retcon

hidden prism
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yeah that isn't a retcon, tama and wano were new to us

dark palm
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Just stuff that wasn’t explained

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There was room for it all continuity wise

tired osprey
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hmm okey

dark palm
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Ace being pissed at the state of wano and going to onigashima lines up with his character pretty well

strong chasm
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It's inevitable for a long-running manga like One Piece to have retcons

dark palm
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Especially given that he befriended Tama

hidden prism
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Juba was pointing out though that BB mentioned Haki in Jaya tho

dark palm
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He did but in a strange manner

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When he saw Luffy’s bounty he said something about his haki

hidden prism
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so maybe Luffy was using it, just unrefined

twilit tartan
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idk about luffy but maybe zoro in albasta

pastel summit
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no, he said 30m was too low for someone with his "haki". Luffy wasn't using haki, blackbeard could either sense something, or he literally meant his ambition.

dark palm
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It’s the same kanji for haki

pastel summit
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yeah

dark palm
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It’s probably a similar use to Luffy/Sanji/Zoro sensing caribou in the palace

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Through some outward emanating aura

hidden prism
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Shanks heavily implies Teach had a deeper understanding of things that he was hiding while in WB pirates, he might have some knowledge that we havent become privvy to yet

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we don't know much about his background

dark palm
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No doubt he’s in the know about things but I think here he was just using observation

coarse river
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Speaking of coc and asura, during his training, zoro must have used asura in the presence of mihawk. It's weird if mihawk didn't tell him about it, leading zoro clueless about Kaido's statement. It could also mean mihawk can't do adv CoC techniques.

Any thoughts on this?

molten wolf
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or Mihawk doesn't have it. Or Zoro doesn't have it. Or Zoro never used Asura with Mihawk

pastel summit
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don't think anyone was speaking of CoC or Asura, but I don't think those 2 are related.

hidden prism
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Agreed

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Zoro and coc are mostly linked with enma I'd say

molten wolf
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Rayleigh also never mentioned to Luffy that he could coat his fists with Conquerors. Could be something usefl. But Maybe Rayleigh did not know of it, or Luffy needed to be able to use emission Armament first before being able to coat wit Conquerors

twilit tartan
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But haki is stronger when someone is in a pinch and zoro states clearly that its his max capability, maybe he unlocked CoC when using his last attack but still used Asura with mihawk where he didnthave it

hidden prism
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and whether its enma itself that has it, or zoro had it drawn out by using enma

hidden prism
dark palm
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Zoro though, we’ll just have to see how that develops

pastel summit
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to be fair, rayleigh could've told him in those last 6 months.

hidden prism
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I have two conflicting theories (or rather, predictions) about the future of One Piece. One is that the final showdown between Teach and Luffy is ultimately going to be about their character and personal strength, and that Luffy's DF power is going to be diminutized significantly. I think this is because Teach is setting himself up as a DF demigod, like someone who hoards all the nuclear bombs. He lies, cheats, steals and takes shortcuts to the top - while Luffy plows straight through and overcomes obstacles the hard way...... on the other hand, I have long felt that Shanks being in possession of the gomu gomu no mi was not random chance and there is probably something we don't know about the history of that specific fruit.

dark palm
pastel summit
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Yes, but that was because he had already mastered the basics.

molten wolf
dark palm
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He didn’t really teach him, just mentioned it as an off comment

molten wolf
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or am I misremembering things... I thought he at least mentioned it, yeah

hidden prism
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telling luffy about such an advanced technique would serve no purpose when he was still learning the basics.

coarse river
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Did he prob think stuffing Luffy with too much info would backfire? 🤣

dark palm
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I mean yeah, he only said the future sight thing to sorta hype luffy up

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It’s also a whole lot more intuitive than advanced CoC in regards to the power

molten wolf
dark palm
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Since future sight is just better CoO

molten wolf
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1 and a half year of Luffy's company was too much for the old man to handle

hidden prism
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There is no way Rayleigh didn't know about the technique, we can at the very least say that for sure... why he didn't tell luffy we could speculate on

dark palm
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I don’t think he told him about advanced CoA either

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Outside of showing him

molten wolf
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lazy Rayleigh

night jewel
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tbf, he did say that he was only going to teach him the basics, so it makes sense